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Baelinator Archive

View 6 posts and 150 comments by Baelinator on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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15

Holy shit. 51.1% unemployed (not looking for work), 27.8% student, 7.8% part time employment. The amount of employed, unemployed (looking for work), and full time workers on this subreddit are so low that they don't even make the chart.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/09/21 05:55 PM
1

Relevant clip: Here
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/21 09:05 PM
13

Hey, I get where you're coming from. It sounds a bit absurd to hear that many women have trouble orgasming without help. (Even to some women!) But, it's true, and nothing to do with laziness. The fact of the matter is that the female orgasm doesn't have much evolutionary reason to exist. People have speculated, (pair bonding, etc.) but a female orgasm isn't necessary for procreation and may more or less be a biological accident. 10-15% of women have never orgasmed -- and it's largely to do with …
/r/PurplePillDebate11/09/21 08:02 AM
47

The fact that you think that these are general viewpoints says more about what internet subcultures you follow than anything else. I can assure you that anyone, IRL, in liberal areas, would call a woman insecure for attempting to curb her partner's porn use. Radical feminism is extremely rare, even online. But, I'll bite. There is some truth to the idea that sex toys can desensitize women to regular sex. Some sex toys are very strong and absolutely addictive. Still, what men tend to imagine duri…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/09/21 03:08 AM
1

I'd be curious to hear how you define "feminism" and what specific aspects of it you are referring to. It's difficult to debate something that begins with such a nebulous premise (and one I imagine you may be defining in a bad faith way).
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/21 05:29 AM
1

It seems like you've constructed an extreme generalization based on your own experiences. Start a discussion on this subreddit about whether or not men would want their wife to be in a gangbang/ if they've ever enjoyed watching one in a video. I think you'll find that the results are different than what you expect.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/21 06:01 AM
1

​ Many men who enjoy, say, watching gangbangs, would not want their partner to participate in one -- or want to participate in one themselves. Similarly, a man who enjoys watching "public" porn may not desire to risk getting on a registry if they get caught. Someone who enjoys watching the visuals of BDSM may find out that they hate pain. It is not about the person wanting it. People watch things in porn that they would never even consider in real life. And, that's the problem. It's that the lon…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/21 04:59 AM
1

I may have used the wrong term for the position I meant to describe. Any number of other positions could work for the example.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/21 04:47 AM
7

So, to clarify, once you've had as many kids as you want, you will never again engage in PIV sex with your partner? I admire your logical consistency but you must realize that most people in relationships wouldn't be okay with that. And, it's rather extreme to expect every human to only have sex for the purpose of procreation. There are pro-life arguments that I empathize with, but this is rather bizarre.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/21 02:35 AM
1

You may not understand, if you don't suffer from porn addiction. It does not happen to every person who watches porn. It's not inevitable. But, just like alcohol, not everyone will become an alcoholic but many people do. There are women who can only orgasm from porn, not sex as well. And, quite frankly, you're being dismissive of all the men who suffer from this. There are celebrities, dating other hot celebrities, who speak up about this. Bobby Lee is a great example. Look up his wife Khalayla.…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/21 02:19 AM
5

What if you're in a long term relationship, but neither of you want kids? What if you have many children already and don't want anymore? Do you only ever have sex when you intend to procreate?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/21 02:13 AM
1

This is not even remotely true. Porn addiction has very little to do with attractiveness and everything to do with the fact that porn is a supranormal stimulus (an exaggerated form of reality) that, in some ways, is better than actual sex. Think about porn. Think about the angles you can see? Now consider real life. In standing sex, can you see your penis enter your partner? How about in missionary, when you're both laying on top of each other? Can you see the view from above, as if you were on …
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/21 02:07 AM
34

I wholeheartedly disagree that women are taught from grade school up that men are bad/evil/rapists. I'd be willing to accept an argument that recently women have received this narrative in college, but gradeschool? Highschool? No way. Young women reading literature and history are taught that men are the default. That, men are the builders of society and the ones with character and honor. That their stories are the important ones. It is extremely rare for high school syllabuses to even include O…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/09/21 07:13 PM
9

The examples you listed are actually examples of women not blaming men for their issues. Patriarchy is a system, it doesn't mean "men bad" and women uphold patriarchy as well. Rape culture is a system, that women also participate in. Ditto with toxic masculinity. For example, the fact that many women lose attraction to their boyfriends when they cry is an example of a way that women are also a part of toxic masculinity. A woman might not believe that her friend was raped or maybe she believes th…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/08/21 06:30 AM
1

The first image seems to imply that he wanted her to be there. Wage gap doesn't exist so second image sucks.
/r/MGTOW18/06/21 11:46 AM
1

Yeah, I know plenty of people who seem to be in happy relationships/marriages who think I'm nuts for not dating. But, once you've seen how much you can lose from a bad relationship, it starts to feel like a really awful investment.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/09/20 08:41 PM
1

Eh, that rabbit hole was actually pretty common for a while. For a bit, if you were on any kind of male-majority plaforms (reddit, 4chan, discord, etc.) all you'd hear about was trp and how women suck. A lot of women in those spheres became female "nice guys" and tried to be one of the "good ones". There were huge groups of teenage girl anti-feminists in 2015. I think a similar thing must have happened to guys who were on majority-female platforms (social media etc.) where the rhetoric was "men …
/r/PurplePillDebate30/09/20 08:10 PM
1

Haha I guess the grass is always greener. Growing up, I hated being a woman. I wanted to create a legacy and be taken seriously and didn't find any appeal in marriage or children. I always used male usernames on websites and in games so that people would treat me as neutral. I loved being male on the internet, because it felt like people took me seriously. The so-called system only benefits women who are trying to marry well or date well. Falling down the trp pipeline made me begin to blame wome…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/09/20 02:49 PM
1

Oh, I'm familiar with mgtow. Like pretty much everyone in 2015, I fell down the youtube pipeline from anti-sjw content, to sandman and all the other red pill creators. For a while, I used to post on the mgtow subreddit pretending to be divorced man named Daniel. I really don't have any way of explaining that, but I identified with the logical basis of trp (especially when compared to the emotional rhetoric of the screaming sjw feminists that were constantly being platformed around that time.) It…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/09/20 02:25 PM
1

How can women seek men with more money and higher status if they have equal economic footing? Will most women be single?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/09/20 02:07 PM
1

Sure, completely agree that "all men are trash" is a good parallel to TRP. It's pretty reductive and I don't subscribe to it. Plenty of women call out other women for saying that. You're just likely not in women's spaces where you'd see that kind of discourse. I've never actually heard someone say that in real life, but I have many male friends who I would be offended on behalf of. I don't see why not. I asked the question here because this is purplepilldebates. It's about trp. That's the point …
/r/PurplePillDebate30/09/20 02:05 PM
1

Well, then don't date women who only seek resources. But also, don't say that all women do, as if they're a monolith. I don't see the issue.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/09/20 01:50 PM
1

I don't have any issue with men teaching men. I take issue with men teaching men that women are a deterministic monolith that only functions to extracts resources from them. I take issue with women who have similarly lacking views toward men. Why on earth would TRP scare me?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/09/20 01:48 PM
1

Alright, then I suppose that you're a feminist working toward empowering women toward being equal earners. Then, there won't be golddiggers because women will have their own gold.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/09/20 01:43 PM
2

So what's nurturing then? Giving children kind pats on the head?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/09/20 01:39 PM
2

So, single mothers are better than single fathers in all cases because women are better at child rearing? Edit: Manual labor is becoming a much less relevant skill...
/r/PurplePillDebate30/09/20 01:36 PM
5

I can boil down what you wrote to: You were raised by a human. This human imparted some poor messages about how to attract a partner in the world. Possibly, you faced abuse. This lead you to codependently try and please partners and accept poor treament. You interacted with some mean humans. You used your codependent strategies. They produced negative results. This made you more cynical about dating. You learned to value yourself and place yourself first in relationships. You figured out surviva…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/09/20 01:18 PM
2

You've never heard anyone insultingly call a woman a "golddigger" for choosing a partner solely on the basis of resources? Women are absolutely shamed for resource extraction -- if that's all they seek.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/09/20 01:13 PM
2

Sure. But people fast. People overeat. People abstain from sex. People have sex addictions. You lose all ability to have a nuanced conversation if you assume that we are entirely driven by instinct, like animals. We are well beyond that in the scope of human history. The very concept of civilization is a triumph of man over instinct. TRP entirely discards the idea that either gender has any agency beyond their biological drives. And, goes further to say that the majority of people are beholden t…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/09/20 01:07 PM
1

No, simply that the existence of an incentive doesn't mean that it's inevitable (AWALT) or even the majority. Not everyone is obese, even though there's a logical incentive for it. In the same way, not all women are the hypergamous, resource extracting, animals that TRP paints them as -- even if you can construct an argument that there are incentives or trends in that direction.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/09/20 01:02 PM
8

This is exactly the sort of deterministic argument that I take fault with. It's like saying everybody is obese because you observed a trend.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/09/20 12:59 PM
6

So, what if: Women stay in the workforce while being pregnant? Women are single mothers and don't rely on a man to provide? We change the political structure to allow women to provide for themselves while having children -- so not to burden men with that responsibility? Women have significant enough resources that they don't need to rely on men and therefore don't have to choose partners based on resource extraction? It seems like every issue that TRP has with women could be resolved with the fi…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/09/20 12:57 PM
2

But, it's a different situation. Hunger is equivalent to sex. Necessary, prioritized drives. However, the specificities of eating specific foods or choosing specific sex partners? Different. Far more nuanced.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/09/20 12:46 PM
5

So, women have a biological drive toward children. Just as we have a biological drive toward sugar. That doesn't mean that we can't supersede that instinct. All of society was constructed as a human triumph of overcoming our basal drives. And, we have and are. To say that all women are doomed to be stuck in some animalistic state of nature is as ridiculous as saying that all people are doomed to be fat.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/09/20 12:43 PM
2

^
/r/PurplePillDebate30/09/20 12:39 PM
1

Oh, sure. I'm not taking issue with the idea of selling to a basal majority to get laid (even though in this example the majority isn't obese). My issue is more with the idea of AWALT -- painting women as a monolith based on suspect evo psych. It has the appearance of logic, and a certain amount of biological fact, but that doesn't make it true, the majority, or deterministic.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/09/20 12:37 PM
2

See, but I'd argue that the principles that define "AWALT" aren't the majority in the same way that obesity isn't the majority. TRP just assumes that AWALT ideas (hypergamy, etc.) define the majority of women because it functions off of some suspect evo-psych arguments and cherry-picked stats. It sounds logical, which is why many fall prey to it. But, closer inspection shows that it's pretty basal, reductive and honestly silly.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/09/20 12:33 PM
3

This is a rather emotional argument with very little substance. Obviously there are societal growing pangs to having women in the workforce. You can see similar things with racial integration. If you'd like to have a conversation, please substantiate some sort of claim. You've essentially said: Sucks to suck ladies. You can't play kickball with the boys. But, with more dramatic flair.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/09/20 12:26 PM
5

Sure, but TRP tends to extend its arguments to say that all women act a certain way, to a degree that approaches absurdity. Certainly, not all people are obese -- in spite of the reasons that it might be more common. And, is submitting to obesity a desirable thing? Is it inevitable? Is it even the majority?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/09/20 12:15 PM
1

I agree that a case by case basis is far more productive. I'm honestly just trying to get through to the people on this subreddit who seem to take any gender-based evo psych as some kind of mandate from god -- while ignoring it in every other sphere.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/09/20 12:08 PM
5

I honestly agree. But, I'd say that TRP goes even farther and states that all stores should be plus-size and completely ignores the possibility that people can be thin (to extend the analogy). It takes something that has a certain amount of truth and extends it to a point of absurdity.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/09/20 11:44 AM
2

If you reduce 50% of the population based on your experience with a few people, you're engaging in stereotype. It says far more about your social sphere than that group as a whole.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/09/20 11:01 AM
0

"Worse" is not what I'm speaking to. I think many could construct a fair argument that women have had it better than men throughout human history. There was, however, a gender divide. To erase that divide is what I hope for - even if that erasure makes life more difficult for women.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/20 01:09 AM
1

I'm sorry. That's hardly convincing. Does This convince you that men hate women? There are "various articles". I don't think it should convince you of anything. I have been outside, and not seen what you described.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/20 01:07 AM
1

I understand that the word "male privilege" has triggered a lot of people. Please try to see past the phrasing. I understand that this wording has been used by some less than logical people. It is not relevant to my argument why the workforce dynamics have changed, only that they did. And, with that change came the legal enfranchisement of women. With that freedom of movement comes the freedom to choose partners based on a holistic set of criteria - something less true for women in the past.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/20 01:04 AM
1

To be honest, I'm finding it a bit difficult to discuss this with you because it doesn't feel like you're responding to my points, but rather some SJW feminist strawman that you've created in your mind. If the game is rigged for women, then that is what I am hoping to change. Allow women to compete with men in the workforce and remove any archaic laws that protected women from the time when they weren't allowed to work. Teach women that they don't have to date up for safety. Then, with time, the…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/20 01:00 AM
2

I would argue that alimony should only be awarded to stay-at-home parents who leave the workforce. I don't support for alimony equal partners. ​ My point is that women already spent enough time on the workforce for the change to happen. Most of our grandmothers were entirely financially controlled (even if they worked) by their husbands. The fears of those women influenced our mothers and then the young women today. Cultural shifts can take an unfortunate amount of time. I work toward that futur…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/20 12:54 AM
1

The cultural message still remains that women who date down are perceived as losers. This is the message that history imparted and the one that is slowly changing. Women are not mindless drones, but they are as subject to social pressures - as men are. The solution is to work to erode those social pressures.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/20 12:47 AM
1

I realize that my use of the word "work" was misleading. Please read this instead: Women were not meaningfully compensated for their labor and were not treated equal in the eyes of the law. They were not allowed to hold high positions and were relegated to very specific spheres of influence.Their survival was largely determined on their ability to find a worthy husband and their choices were near to entirely in his hands. Her ability to move through social, financial and cultural spheres was ent…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/20 12:44 AM
1

Please substantiate this claim.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/20 12:39 AM
2

Our grandmother's did not have equality of opportunity in the workforce, As a young girl, my grandmother used to slip me twenty dollar bills and say "A girl needs money to run away if she has to." This fear came from the fact that she grew up in a generation where the majority of women were financially controlled by men. Her generation is still living. They raised our mothers. Those mothers raised the young women of today. Change takes time.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/20 12:38 AM
1

I find it difficult to respond to this because there is very little here that is not an opinion. You have made quite a few blanket statements about the character of women and the burden of proof falls on you to substantiate those claims. If you edit your comment to do so, I'm happy to respond.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/20 12:34 AM
0

The reason alimony exists is because a housewife who did not work would be destitute if a man left her. With more female providers, so-called divorce rape is no longer a gendered issue. ​ Remember, women marry up on the socio-economic scale. My entire argument is that women have not done this on the basis of nature but culture and that culture is shifting with women in the workforce.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/20 12:31 AM
1

Back when gender roles were a thing, relationships themselves were practical. Men worked outside of the home and women worked inside of the home. That was each person's "job." Yes, and one of those jobs comes with a salary. The other relies on the salary of the first. You don't believe that a change to this dynamic would change the dynamic of financial importance in female mate selection?
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/20 12:26 AM
1

You misunderstand me. I do not believe in affirmative action or gender quotas. I do not believe that women are actively being discriminated against on a large scale in the western world. I do not believe women are "oppressed". I believe that women have only had equality of opportunity for a small amount of time and that it will take longer for the cultural ideas (Namely here: that women should date-up) to fade out. Our still-living grandmother's and father's lived in a world that did not have eq…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/20 12:20 AM
1

My argument is that, because women have had legal/financial equality of opportunity for less than a century, your points are currently true. We are currently experiencing the growing pains of women in the workforce. Currently, laws have changed significantly but cultural messages have not. However, the messages are slowly changing as women no longer need men and are no longer taught to select a man based on his ability to provide. With woman's ability to fend for herself, comes woman's ability t…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/20 12:14 AM
2

If there is a study that shows that increasing economic security decreases calculative decisions in relationships, then you would be right. ​ I don't think it requires a study to say that wealthier people have more freedom to choose their lifestyle. It's obvious. Your understanding of female nature seems rather influenced by your own biases. I could similarly say, I can name dozens of men who want to date extremely hot girls, but fail in this endeavor because the hot girls just use them for mone…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/20 12:10 AM
1

As I have stated to others, I said nothing about affirmative action, gender quotas, the pay gap or opportunity of result. Only that women have had financial equality of opportunity for less than a century and, as more time passes, their inclusion will allow them to pick partners on the basis of more characteristics than simply - ability to "provide."
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/20 12:05 AM
1

Women by and large are hard-wired to want resources/status This is the crux of my argument. I am saying that women are not hard wired to seek resources, they have simply been forced to because they were legally disenfranchised. The longer women continue to exist in the workforce, the more those cultural messages will dissipate and the more women can select partners based on more than "ability to provide."
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/20 12:05 AM
1

As I have stated to others, I said nothing about affirmative action, gender quotas, the pay gap or opportunity of result. Only that women have had financial equality of opportunity for less than a century and, as more time passes, their inclusion will allow them to pick partners on the basis of more characteristics than simply - ability to "provide."
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/20 12:00 AM
2

In that same way, those are the same thing that women get from partnerships with men (sex, children, affection) if she has a good job. Anything else she can get from other women. What's your point? I'm not sure I understand.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 11:55 PM
-1

It may have been bad phrasing. Try it this way: Women were not meaningfully compensated for their labor and were not treated equal in the eyes of the law. They were not allowed to hold high positions and were relegated to very specific spheres of influence. Their survival was largely determined on their ability to find a worthy husband and their choices were near to entirely in his hands. Her ability to move through social, financial and cultural spheres was entirely dictated by the men around h…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 11:53 PM
2

Hey, I understand where you're coming from. The rhetoric surrounding men (especially white men) has been especially toxic in the media lately. It's easy to be frustrated if you look at it for too long. However, I didn't say anything about the wage gap, equality of result, or gender quotas. I said that, in the past, the only real role for women was to leech off a man. Currently, women have only had legal equality for less than a century. The growing pains of women entering the workforce has lead …
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 11:46 PM
0

I wouldn't be willing to say. There are cultural messages that play a larger role than the simple equality of legal opportunity. However, I will say that any many who complains that women provide little to men in the context of relationships should support ambition rather than traditionalism in women. Otherwise, he is hypocritical.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 10:54 PM
1

I agree. And I am hopeful for a world in which women and men can partner together as honest friends and equals. This dream is advanced by a culture that forces women to work as hard as men rather than one that asks them to be parasitic through subservience.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 10:48 PM
2

Perhaps "positions" is a better word.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 10:43 PM
1

The "outdated cultural views" are the views of the people who created the structure of the workforce and who raised the current generation. They are the views of the people who (in the U.S.) hold most major political offices. It will take more time for those influences to fade. Equality of Opportunity for woman has been (in the context of history) only present for an extremely small amount of time.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 10:42 PM
3

I would argue that any human would rather be valued on the merit of achievements, personality and ability than on the basis of something that they have no control over (appearance) . To be valued (perhaps, on occasionally exploited) on that basis allows for a personal improvement and internal pride. ​ You're telling me women don't just marry up for MORE MONEY? I'm saying that if women are socialized to be equally ambitious (as is becoming true) that this will be less of a consideration. Do you t…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 10:34 PM
2

I have edited my comment to account for your edit: Women are not leeches if they are working for their own money. I did not say that they "don't owe men anything". I said that now a woman does not have to have a husband who must "provide". Now she can choose a husband on the basis of more than his career. This reduces the burden on men.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 10:29 PM
2

I'm saying that those trends still exist because not enough time has passed. Equality of opportunity does not mean that centuries of cultural attitudes have been eroded overnight. When my mother heard I had a crush at school she said: What does he want to do when he grows up? When my mother heard that my brother had a crush at school she said: Is she pretty? Do you know why she said those things? Because she is a housewife. Her entire life has been determined on the basis of my father's success.…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 10:16 PM
5

Women did not historically have legal ownership over their earnings (if they had any). Most higher-paying jobs were exclusively male. Housewives are not the point. It was that any woman's finances were under the control of her male keeper. This requires that she be very selective about who will hold that power over her.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 10:09 PM
3

More and more meaning that women do not routinely chose to exit the workforce to become stay at home mothers or take on less demanding jobs because the onus is on them to provide childcare. Perhaps it would have been better to say, when the workforce adapts to women being in it. What I meant was: As more and more time passes with women in the workforce, the balance of relationships will become more equitable. ​ Women don't want an 'equal. This is what I am arguing against. I am arguing that the …
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 10:06 PM
2

TRP states that men marry for romantic ideals and women marry for resource extraction. They use studies about women "marrying-up" to justify the idea that women can only love people who are superior to them, and fail to see the historical context for these decisions. I said nothing about the gender pay gap.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 09:53 PM
1

My argument is that the TRP idea that romantic love is an exclusively male ideal discounts the fact that women did not have the privilege of being romantic (for the most part). Women were forced to be more practical than men and the TRP studies that show women as "resource-extractors" are only observing this cultural truth, not a biological truth about the nature of women.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 09:43 PM
4

Please give me any example of a time (prior to this century) when women had more control of their finances than their husbands. I never said that women didn't labor. They almost certainly did difficult tasks. However, the fruits of their labor (usually labor at home) was not under their control.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 09:40 PM
1

Those who are desperate will do desperate things. This does not make it true of all women. A TRP man cited the study that showed an inverse relationship between attraction and n-count earlier in this thread.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 09:09 PM
1

There is an inverse correlation between attractiveness and n-count. More attractive women are not using their bodies to get ahead and are far more likely to be in long-term relationships. Less attractive women are more likely to be promiscuous because, like less attractive men, they are more desperate and willing to match with unsuited partners so that they can get a partner at all.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 07:27 PM
1

Any person who is creating a marriage and a family will spend more time doing work than they will having fun. If you contrast this with your partners uninhibited experiences in their early life, it can be easy to see yourself as getting a raw deal.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 07:25 PM
2

I do not believe the emotional (fear-based) sentiment that a woman can not be attracted to her husband simply because she had sex with someone more attractive any more than I believe the inverse. Further, I do believe that there are some men who would not be satisfied with sex (and marriage) with a sexually repressed "good-girl" if they spent their younger years having crazy sex with liberated "bad-girls". Both men and women are equally likely to have a struggle between their desire for stabilit…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 07:22 PM
1

Your own anecdotes and low self esteem does not create a cultural fact. Any space (say, engineering) that is largely populated by members of one gender will have less sexually active persons - based simply on the fact that they have less opportunity to socially engage with the opposite sex. I do not believe that the unsexed men of the internet are lying. However, I do believe (and the cited study backs this up) that they are the minority. Any minority can look enormous if you collect all it's pa…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 07:18 PM
1

Lot's of women would marry the alpha if they could, the alpha just doesn't want to marry them. To use a media example, many men would marry somebody like Belle Delphine, in spite of her promiscuity. However, she doesn't want them because she has more to gain by being independent. Yet, not all men immediately would marry her. Many would be disgusted by her sexual behavior. Similarly, many women would marry somebody like Leonardo Dicaprio. However, he doesn't want them because he has more to gain …
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 06:58 AM
14

This might be an odd thing to say, but that meant a lot for me to read. Sometimes talking on the internet seems like screaming into a void. This comment actually made my day.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 05:43 AM
3

You assume that most women are promiscuous in their early life (The average number of lifetime sexual partners is roughly equivalent for men and women. Citation ) The average age of marriage for women is 27 (in the U.S.) and 29 for men. Assuming the average 4 years of dating until marriage, the average woman was 23 when she met her partner. (Hardly past her prime.) 16-19 year old women have an average of 1-2 sexual partners (per above study). So, she spends four years in college, (maybe) having …
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 05:11 AM
1

Wouldn't go as far as to argue that single parent households are better. Simply that bad marriages are equally as dissatisfying for men and women. It's not gendered to resent your spouse.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 04:21 AM
3

Definitely agree. I was only drawing the comparison because many people here are unable to see the parallels between the two spaces.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 04:19 AM
2

Sure, similarly it only takes one man to wife up a porn star. Many promiscuous women still get married just as many promiscuous men do.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 04:17 AM
6

​ And of men who succeded how many do you think had to tolerate whatever the woman threw at them... Both men and women tolerate negative personality traits to gain access to people they deem highly attractive. ​ The 80/20 thing is about who women desire, not about who women settle for. This is the assumption that I see over and over in the thread: Women settle for a partner that they do not love. Why do you assume that women do not love their eventual partner and men do? Why are men not settling…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 04:15 AM
1

Husbands also complain about how their wives "let themselves go", "don't have sex with them anymore", "have no hobbies", etc. Well no shit they don't. Most of them spend all day caring for screaming children and cleaning just to keep fucking the same aging, wrinkly, beer-gut manchild everyday. A prison that will subject them to grave social and financial penalties should they ever dare to exit it.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 04:09 AM
3

I'm not saying that I dislike them because they're unpleasant. I'm saying that both TRP and harsh feminism are saying the same thing. (Namely: People are self-interested assholes for the most part.) Yet, both groups only apply their logic to one side of humanity. For TRP: NAWALT. For feminism: All Men Are Trash. The more unpleasant description of reality is that both genders are rather entitled and unrealistic in relationships.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 04:05 AM
2

Exactly, and they do. Many women I know would never date a man with a high n-count, because they don't have one, and don't respect people that do.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 04:01 AM
1

That's your personal opinion, not a statement of fact.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 04:00 AM
3

In that study you cited, there was only a ten percent difference between men who weren't having sex and women who weren't. Considering traditional gender dynamics, that's actually more close than I would have thought it might be. Moreover, only 28% of men weren't having sex (18% women). That's not even close to the majority and seems to disprove the supposed 80/20 rule of TRP that says that only the top percent of men get laid.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 03:57 AM
3

Extreme feminism is a philosophy - same as TRP. As much as TRP likes to talk about a feminist takeover, the vast majority of recent feminist movements have just been celebrity virtue signaling. There's no gender war happening in the majority of spaces.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 02:17 AM
5

I didn't say that they were the same. However, I would say that there are far more similarities than differences. This is one of them. Namely: Both genders select different partners when they're looking for casual sex vs. when they're looking for marriage. However, this doesn't mean that they prefer the casual sex partner to their spouse.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 02:09 AM
5

Not sure what you mean. Do you think a man having sex with a crazy whore means that he can't appreciate a good girl in the future? Do you think he is slut-widowed (to parallel "alpha widow") by the highly arousing sex? I certainly don't.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 02:00 AM
5

All people love by being exclusionary. It's saying: You are my favorite of all the other people and, even though I might like to have sex with some of them, the sum total of your traits makes my fidelity worthwhile. If women don't like collecting men, then how does hook-up culture exist? Women who engage in casual sex are not looking for life partners, they're looking for sex partners. Same with the men who engage in hookup culture. ​ A woman knows that her husband would have said "yes" to her 1…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 01:58 AM
5

I'd never heard of Horseshoe Theory before now. That's so interesting. Yeah, I've always thought that TRP and extreme radical feminism are saying the exact same things, just using different terms. It drives me a bit crazy that neither side seems to see that they're often just describing human nature, rather than the nature of a specific gender.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 01:45 AM
7

Yeah, both men and women are attracted to dangerous personality types and it causes issues for both. If you go to FDS you will see them touting the book Why Men Love Bitches and saying that nice women get used as servants and wombs. If you go to TRP you will see men touting the book No More Mr. Nice Guy and saying that nice men get used as wallets and slaves. Gender dynamics have a lot more similarity than difference and the main place that TRP and FDS seem to disagree is on which gender is the …
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 01:28 AM
1

If there are so many men willing to wife-up sluts, then why are there so many single mothers?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 12:53 AM
5

They don’t prefer the guy who they end up with settling for. Men do prefer the woman who they end up with. This ^ is what I'd like you to substantiate.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 12:50 AM
6

As many people have pointed out, women are more attracted to dark triad characteristics. Dark triad characteristics are dangerous characteristics. Which means that (perceived) alphas are often manipulative, abusive or unstable and women have equivalent spaces to TRP that teach them to stay away - even if those people are sexually compelling. Also, you realize that the hot/crazy matrix is a joke from How I Met Your Mother, right...?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 12:45 AM
9

Yeah, exactly. Women also like the crazy ones. You'll also see women (on FDS for example) warning against the alpha type - who is often abusive or unfaithful. I'm simply trying to show that both genders are experiencing very similar things, just using different language. That thing is essentially: hot != marriage material. It goes for both men and women.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 12:17 AM
1

Essentially the premise that men are attracted to one kind of girl for sex and a different kind of girl for marriage.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/20 12:15 AM
1

Oh, I'm talking about the inverse. I'm saying a whore can't become a madonna. In fact, it's far less reversible because a beta can ascend but a whore can never undo her promiscuity.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 10:04 PM
2

Oh shit. Please don't call the cops. No more laws. Take these instead. Baelinator's Theorum of Attraction states that males of a species will afford more resources in order to acquire a partner of greater sexual value. The amount of resources expended is proportional to the perceived attractiveness of the female. It is not, however, applied equally to all, or even the majority, of females. Baelinator's Axiom of Selectivity states that males select for more traits than pure attractiveness in a pa…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 09:56 PM
2

The guy who is a great father/provider may not also be the hottest. Similarly, the girl who would make a great wife/mother might not be as sexually fun. People can be both. It's just more rare.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 09:26 PM
2

Baelinator's (totally real) Law maintains that where a male can derive no benefit from association with a female, no such association takes place. Do you really think that men are entering into relationships with people who give them no benefits? (For the record: Sex is a benefit.) People only enter into compacts with others when it benefits them in some way.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 09:20 PM
2

You can switch your costume, yes. A beta could wear a suit and look like an alpha from afar. However, I'm talking about personality - which is far more difficult to change.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 09:15 PM
3

Nope. No more than it's unrealistic to be a nice guy and hot. But, it is more rare. It's the fantasy of both genders. The lady in the streets, freak in the sheets for men and the bad boy who is good for only you for women. Unfortunately sexual arousal and long-term compatibility don't always overlap perfectly. It's tough for either gender to find.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 09:13 PM
1

I don't think that's a fair characterization of my interactions with people in the comments. I did fall down the TRP pipeline a few years ago (didn't we all) and found, with some critical thought, that it was just as stereotyped and misguided as the SJW feminism that I rejected. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle and I wanted to draw the parallel between two (IMO) lacking philosophies.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 09:06 PM
5

Fair. But, I do think that TRP tells men, who would otherwise want a family/marriage, that it's unrealistic. That strikes me as very similar to the SJW feminist "all men are trash" rhetoric that tells women that they should put themselves first because men can never truly love you for anything other than your body. Just as people have, rightly, called out SJWs for painting men with too broad a brush and turning girls away from traditionalism - I'd argue that TRP does the same to men.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 08:38 PM
2

While I'd agree that women may prefer some n-count (preselection bias is a safety seeking instinct) I don't think you'd be likely to find evidence that a high n-count is desirable in men for most women. Women have even created their own derogatory term for promiscuous men (fuckboi) that is used in the same way that men use the word slut.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 08:32 PM
3

You've never heard the term "nag" lobbied at women who are managing households well but can't be fun at the same time? You've never heard of the classic mid-life crisis where a man leaves his wife for somebody new and exciting? It's the same resentment that one might feel toward a beta provider type. It's the: Ugh. Why can't you be fun and interesting like the people I knew in college. It's called maturity, and both men and women can have a hard time with it.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 08:28 PM
2

this might interest you
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 08:17 PM
2

Oh, sorry. I thought you were the person from the top comment. I agree with everything you wrote. I am saying that there's nuance - on both sides. I'm saying that both feminists and TRP get it wrong by being too reductive.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 08:14 PM
2

Yes, he will have more options. But, not every woman would automatically chose him on wealth alone. For instance, I would be disturbed by the idea of dating someone several years older than me, even if they were rich. I have many friends who would not marry any man with a high n-count. In the same way, many men would marry Belle Delphine. Many others would find this revolting. Both genders chose more based on personality preference and values than anything else.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 08:07 PM
6

In the end, the whore type (Margot Robbie) got everything and the good girl got nothing. It's examples like this that fuel both TRP and FDS. TRP has No More Mr. Nice Guy and FDS has Why Men Love Bitches. The genders are very similar in their hypergamy and attraction to volatility. And, most people are superficial.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 08:01 PM
3

You said that women don't sexually or romantically desire the beta. Similarly, some feminists would say that men don't romantically or sexually desire their wives because, say, the chase is over and they're bored of stability. I think both of these views are unfairly cynical and lack nuance. Sure, being dark triad is a great way to be hot. (That's why both TRP and FDS use it as a strategy) BUT, it's not the best way to find a meaningful connection. Mature people will seek out more traits than ju…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 07:49 PM
6

The divorce rate has increased because now women can chose to leave marriages. In the past they couldn't (because men were their only hope of survival) and so they would stay in unhappy marriages. The divorce rate simply shows the unfortunate fact that people often incorrectly choose who is the best partner to marry. It doesn't say anything about alphas or betas.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 07:44 PM
6

Similarly, somebody like Scarlett Johansson could find thousands of marriage suitors if she wanted them? Even somebody like Belle Delphine could easily find thousands of men to marry her. Exceptions are always made for the very rich and attractive. They're not the rule. Also, even though many women would date Leo, many others would be disgusted by him. Many of those women might consider people attracted to Leo like something akin to "simps". Same goes for Belle Delphine. Tons of men would marry …
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 07:40 PM
1

I see what you're saying. That's definitely the classic view of a madonna. But, in a more modern sense, think of madonnas like stay-at-home mothers and whores as liberated popular party girls. Doesn't it seem rather similar to the image that TRP paints of alphas and betas? One is having fun and the other is doing tedious domestic duties. If you forget to account for love and the romantic joy of building something with a partner - it would be easy to see the madonna role as horrible, just as TRP …
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 07:32 PM
2

Yeah, exactly. But, it shows that sometimes the most attractive person isn't always the best partner. It's the same for men and women. We're both often drawn to negative personality traits (because they're compelling) but eventually chose a better partner to marry. Both M/W and AF/BB wrongly assume that somebody has to be getting a raw deal.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 07:25 PM
2

Alright. I can understand that. You don't have to try and discuss with me if it wouldn't be productive for you.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 07:20 PM
14

In fact TRP and more harsh forms of feminism are very very similar. Thanks for saying that. That was actually what I was trying to draw attention to. TRP often reminds me of the type of feminism that says "all men are trash". Both use questionable evolutionary psychology to justify themselves and both paint a single gender with a broadly negative brush.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 07:17 PM
5

I mean, by that same standard, neither have you. Of course I have an opinion. I wouldn't have posted otherwise. You speak about that so negatively.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 07:11 PM
4

That's an assumption. There are many tired housewives who sit at home and wish they were single. There are many sad playboys who want to settle down. What do you think of this
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 07:07 PM
2

I agree with it. I think both men and women are attracted to dangerous personality types. And, that both should learn to seek out partners carefully or else they will be abused. I don't think it's a gendered thing. But, I wouldn't want to become abusive to hack my way to being attractive, I'd rather focus on more healthy traits that are also attractive (ex: getting in shape/learning social skills)
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 07:06 PM
3

I'm not using the literally term for whore (sex for money) but the colloquial one (promiscuous). If a man has many sex partners (say, rides the pussy rollercoaster) a nice, christian woman would likely not want to date him. Because, it wouldn't match her values. The genders are more similar than different for the most part and attraction comes down to a complicated set of early childhood influences.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 07:02 PM
6

Isn't this the space for discussion? Being anti-porn and prostitution doesn't have anything to do with this conversation. I fell down the TRP pipeline a few years back (didn't we all) and used to actively love and consume MGTOW content before I did some critical thinking. I'm willing to have my mind changed, but I'd also like to bring up a comparison that I don't often see in this space. Discussion isn't "pushing an agenda". Not everything is a gender-battlefield.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 06:54 PM
6

Out of curiosity, what do you think of studies like this
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 06:52 PM
6

How do you explain the men married to porn stars? What about the men married to famous celebrities who show their breasts in movies? Do you think the man who is engaged to Scarlett Johansson thinks less of her because many have seen her naked? You don't think that some men would literally die to wife somebody like Belle Delphine? Your position entirely discounts personal preferences. Why do you assume that women don't prefer the person they end up with and men do? You state it, but you don't exp…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 06:46 PM
13

I would argue that women are the same. They want neither a complete beta (who is sexually impotent) or a complete alpha (who is promiscuous and dangerous). They want somewhere in the middle of these extremes. Which is also what men want.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 06:42 PM
8

No, not because "they couldn't get laid otherwise" - because they were horny, just like men are, and made a bad decision. It doesn't mean she will pine after him forever (or hope to marry him) just because they had sex. Edit to account for your citations: Men are also more attracted to dark triad traits. Look at this for example:[https://www.psypost.org/2020/06/men-are-drawn-to-borderline-personality-traits-in-physically-attractive-women-study-finds-56961]
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 06:40 PM
9

How is it "pushing an agenda" to say that I believe that both genders face similar issues in a sexual marketplace that allows both to be promiscuous?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 06:39 PM
14

Women can also have "thirst overpowers their disgust" moments. You've never heard about women sleeping with people that they'd also describe as douchebags in the same breath? People who have different political views and temperaments as them? Even people they hate? Why did they sleep with them? Because: thirst overpowered their disgust. In the way that you say, "beta traits are sexually unappealing to women" people on FDS says that nurturing traits are unattractive to men and they secretly love …
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 06:31 PM
15

It does make assumptions. Just like r/FemaleDatingStrategy does. It's easy to construct arguments about the awful dynamics of a gender if you collect a bunch of heartbroken and romantically disenfranchised people in one place.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 06:17 PM
26

If no men loved crazy or promiscuous women, thousands of stories would disappear from TRP of cheating wives and mistakes made. Of course, men can love sluts. We don't choose who we love and we often love people who are bad for us. Similarly, you assume that women can't appreciate mild-traits in men and assume that they immediately catch feelings for any hot person they sleep with. Your position entirely discounts personal preferences and nuance.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 06:14 PM
8

It's actually not a political term, it's a psychoanalytical one that has made its way into colloquial usage. I'd be curious to hear how alphas-fuck is an observable social phenomenon but whores-fuck isn't.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 06:10 PM
3

I'm using it here in the colloquial way rather than the Freudian one. You will often see feminists use it to attack men for wanting a girl who is simultaneously virginal and sexually open-minded. It strikes me as very similar to how MRAs speak about women wanting a guy who is simultaneously a bad-boy and a provider.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 06:08 PM
28

Again, this is all an opinion, steeped in some suspect evolutionary psychology. There are plenty of men who love promiscuous women and plenty of women who love mild-mannered men. A woman might fuck a crazy, tatted up, drug addict and have a great time. BUT, that doesn't mean she wants to marry him. The nice man who she eventually chooses as her long term partner will have a host of different traits that she values, not just the sexual. Similarly, a man might fuck a crazy, megahot, club-girl and …
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 05:54 PM
7

Women are definitely as bothered. Go to r/relationships and you will see thousands of posts about women being jealous, concerned and disgusted by their boyfriends sexual pasts. It can be very difficult (for both genders) to reconcile the idea that your partner loved/fucked people before you.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 05:45 PM
11

Forgive the movie example but: Have you seen the Wolf of Wallstreet? Do you remember when he left his sweet wife for Margot Robbie after her got rich? If I used TRP projection I could say something like: OMG these male hypergamists leave nice provider women for attractive girls with good frame, There's no point in being nice. Just, act like a hot bitch and you'll get the guy. If that sounds unrealistic and cynical to you - well, that's how TRP sounds to me.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 05:43 PM
15

I think if you take a look around, you'll find as many men who want to be providers and fathers as there are men who want to be playboys. Similarly, many women want to be liberated hook-uppers and many women want to be mothers and wives. TRP doesn't seem to allow much nuance in its philosophy. But, people can have different personalities and goals.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 05:37 PM
5

Because it's just being jealous of a person's sexual past. Even if that person genuinely does love you more.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 05:35 PM
51

See, that's a perspective, not a fact. TRP assumes that women don't love their beta husbands. Similar to how some women assume that a man could never love a less attractive girl based on her personality. Many women see alpha types similar to how men see sluts. In that: they're too risky and unstable to be a long term partner. A hot-madonna is the male fantasy. An alpha-bux is the female fantasy. Both are somewhat unrealistic and difficult to find.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 05:33 PM
12

If I were to make a comparable argument to how men talk about AF/BB, I'd say: Oh my god, men are so trash. They take hot girls out on fancy dates and vacations. But, once those hot girls dump them, they settle with some pick-me Becky who will do chores for them and bang them and bear their kids. But, he treats her like trash and still wishes he was with the hot girls from his past. Hot girls get so much free shit and good girls just get to be choreslaves and mommies. Ugh, men. They're just using…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 05:30 PM
7

It's almost definitely the attempt to combine the personality of a sexually liberated woman with that of a chaste-acting one. Similar to what you said about women wanting an alpha bux. It's the fantasy for both genders to have both. But, most people eventually realize that it's unrealistic and settle for whatever traits are most important to them, rather than assuming they can have it all.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 05:25 PM
2

I'd argue that this is a jealous point of view that isn't based in reality. It's similar to when women stalk their husband's ex-girlfriends and say, "I bet you secretly wish you married her. She's so hot," even as her husband reassures her that hot isn't everything.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 05:22 PM
21

What about the phrase: I want a lady in the streets and a freak in the sheets? Both genders attempt to combine. It's just usually unrealistic.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/20 05:18 PM
28

Hey, I normally lurk but I've noticed a similar theme, so I wanted to post for anyone who needs this. It seems like this sub tends to attract women who genuinely want to live a traditional, feminine life but it also appeals to people who are afraid (on some deeper level) that they are unlovable and think that femininity might be a life hack for their insecurity. If you relate to this, please consider attending a CODA meeting when quarantine is over. Its a great place, filled with supportive wome…
/r/RedPillWomen04/06/20 11:53 PM
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