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Bibiloup Archive

View 1 posts and 186 comments by Bibiloup on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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22

Edu./Occu.Bibiloup/r/MensRights18/09/19 01:41 PM
Upvotes Comment on Subreddit Date (UTC)
2

I find (in a generalized sense) men are only loved if they provide and women are only loved if they’re beautiful. It’s hard on both sides.
/r/MensRights27/05/20 10:35 PM
0

But St00d, the OP didn’t say anything about the woman being a feminist, nor did he say anything about her calling him a rapist/child molester. These are all assumptions you’ve made based on your lifetime of experiences. If we’re talking about valid assumptions that are born from lifetimes of experience, then you’re not the only one who has those. And when others’ assumptions contradict yours, that’s not an indication that either of you are wrong, just that you’ve had different life experiences. …
/r/MensRights29/10/19 04:05 PM
-8

You can stand up for yourself without escalating the situation though...
/r/MensRights29/10/19 09:55 AM
5

I find it weird that you say “it’s unfortunate that you would have to pay for that mistake for 18 years”... In my scenario the pregnancy was accidental, I don’t think it’s nice to think of the child as a mistake :/ And it doesn’t really seem to take into account that the father will be paying a stipend for 18 years, but the mum would be paying and caring for everything else for that time too.
/r/MensRights11/10/19 02:59 PM
12

What about in situations where a man doesn’t say he doesn’t want the baby, but then rescinds after the baby is born or it’s too late for the abortion — and the woman only went ahead with the pregnancy because she expected her partner’s help? Would it be fair to enforce that the man offer at least financial support in those circumstances?
/r/MensRights11/10/19 02:36 PM
1

Oh really? It’s actually pretty well documented. “Neonatal skin fibroblasts” are cells taken out of the skin discarded after the circumcision of newborns. They have an incredible regenerative capacity that has been used to treat ulcers and burn victims, and is even used in rejuvenating cosmetic procedures. So its commodification isn’t actually in question, I don’t think. I was just having trouble finding a book examining the gender dynamics at play in the global market.
/r/MensRights22/09/19 03:26 AM
1

If what is true?
/r/MensRights22/09/19 02:03 AM
1

u/PutridMeatPuppet, u/dontpet, u/goodfoobar I’ve been looking for a book written on the commodification of foreskin in a globalized medical/cosmetics industry and I can’t find anything. The only books I have been able to find about circumcision are medical analyses of the reasons and risks, or an edited volume of cultural and ethical considerations for genital mutialtion in general (and my prof said we shouldn’t review edited books so that’s off the table). It seems like the only books exploring…
/r/MensRights21/09/19 10:53 PM
1

I will keep your concerns in my heart and do my part to prevent freedom’s death. Vaya con dios, gracias por tu tiempo.
/r/MensRights20/09/19 10:32 PM
1

Thank you :)
/r/MensRights20/09/19 07:22 PM
1

My point was that your words of caution and warning were not shared in a respectful way. I completely understand why you feel they are necessary, though. And I appreciate the work you do in trying to help others protect themselves. But the repeated insinuations in the condescending tone that I listed, in obstinate contradiction of what I was trying to tell you, really hammered in the fact that you think I’m naive, and that you don’t trust my opinion of my own lived experience (because as you say…
/r/MensRights20/09/19 06:09 PM
1

Ok wait I’m sorry if I made you feel like I was insulting you, that wasn’t the intention. I was trying to point out that the way you’ve been communicating with me was coming across as rude. I’ve been trying to point it out from the start. stick to something orthodoxically feminist Implying that my prof isn’t open to different opinions, when I made it clear in my OP that I was excited about how the course was engaged (ie a course on gender not on women) smells of grievance studies Usually saying …
/r/MensRights20/09/19 04:09 PM
1

Aww you don’t want to keep talking? Because I’m part of the Runnymede Society at my school, which has a lot of the same complaints as the Heterodox Academy. So like, I get that there’s an overwhelming bias toward a specific type of world view in liberal arts faculties. But from my experience talking with individual students and professors, that framework emerges out of the information that is available. It’s a consequence of studying society from the angle of “we reproduce ideology constantly an…
/r/MensRights20/09/19 09:48 AM
1

Oh I love Cassie Jaye, she’s a wonderfully wise person. I agree with everything she said in that video. I think she describes an issue we have in our society at large. Every movement is plagued with this inability to listen — because most individuals are. We have a very entrenched “us vs them” narrative that is causing most if not all of our current global problems. I do also think that the one of the places where that gets challenged the most is in social study faculties. Places like this Gende…
/r/MensRights19/09/19 11:24 PM
2

I am a full-fledged feminist and very vocal about my ideas, and in my experience deep within feminist circles, it has always been a place open to honest conversation and even the explicit contradiction of perspectives. It’s what intersectional feminism is founded on. I’m sorry you seem to have had the opposite experience. If I may offer my humble opinion, it may have been the way you approach the topics you wish to discuss, or your reaction to their reactions. Do you usually go at it from a “fem…
/r/MensRights19/09/19 12:21 PM
1

Published in 2013, so that’s right on the cut-off! I’ll keep it on my list, but I’ll try to find something shorter first — it’s 310 pages 🙈 Thank you so much! This is one to read regardless of academic assignments :)
/r/MensRights19/09/19 11:26 AM
1

Wow wtf. “The commercialisation of male circumcision is a much larger story than ‘skincare product X’—it involves billions of dollars of public and private investment, on a transnational, intergovernmental scale.” I went looking for a book by Dr. Chris Coughran, of this quote, but I couldn’t find anything written by him. I’ll keep looking.
/r/MensRights19/09/19 11:24 AM
2

I wouldn’t be so cynical :) We’ve been having good conversations in class, and have already spoken on the reality that men face disadvantages too in performing normative masculinities. Plus I explicitly took this class for the difficult conversations so I’m not scared to debate with the prof. She seems open to it :) I won’t disagree that it is grievance studies tho haha. Globalism is not all peaches and rainbows. While Pennie’s book is short and on topic, it’s not exactly what I came here lookin…
/r/MensRights19/09/19 10:11 AM
1

Thank you! I’ll follow your search lead. I’m surprised to have gotten an explicitly feminist suggestion :)
/r/MensRights18/09/19 06:51 PM
4

Wow that’s a great topic. Falls right into the requirements too. Would you have any reading suggestions that would tie that in with globalization?
/r/MensRights18/09/19 03:42 PM
2

I think there are already a lot of book reviews on his work, I would prefer to read something more obscure you know?
/r/MensRights18/09/19 03:42 PM
1

Hahaha :p I’m actually a big nerd so I’m more interested in getting valuable knowledge out of it rather than just getting the credits. Like I already have a degree, I went back to school to learn more 😬😆
/r/MensRights18/09/19 03:41 PM
1

I don’t know :p I think there are a lot of factors that go into making a good life. Both men and women have a unique set of privileges and disadvantages that are hard to see from the other side. Most things that really hurt are actually a collection of small things that aren’t very visible from an outside perspective, I feel. It’s a whole experience. But either way, I have my doubts that saying “men have it worse” or “women have it worse” is helpful. I think it’s better to acknowledge the issues…
/r/MensRights09/09/19 03:00 PM
2

I feel like a point made in the post doesn’t really get addressed enough... that coddling only really happens to pretty girls. Ugly women face a lot of the same deep loneliness that you’re describing. I think handsome men also have it easier than ugly men. I think it’s unfortunate that society says that inherent value goes to attractive people, while everyone else has to work for it.
/r/MensRights09/09/19 01:45 PM
7

Congratulations!!! I’m so happy it worked out for you, and I’m certain your children are very, very grateful for how hard you fought for them ♥️♥️ what a great father you are, it is very obvious how much you love them.
/r/MensRights21/08/19 03:33 AM
2

Oh I definitely agree that there must be many differences between sexes... statistically. After all, as you’ve mentioned, traditions come from somewhere, and the way boys and girls have been trained to fulfill specific roles is not accidental, it is based on some underlying biological design. But the thing about humans is that we are very complex with our behaviours. So if you take a random man and a random woman, and compared their interests/abilities, I don’t think it would be a stark line spl…
/r/MensRights18/08/19 12:48 AM
1

My main point is that “men and women have different brains” is a trend, not a rule. People are varied and interests/abilities exist on a spectrum. Are you saying that because most boys and girls prefer to play with same-sex peers, all boys and girls must play with same-sex peers? Also, I believe that this particular example is a result of socialization. According to the research presented here, there is a gender-segregation cycle that reinforces the gender-segregated interactions of children. In…
/r/MensRights18/08/19 12:21 AM
1

In the first article I linked: The double standards lead male service members to assume that female troops are less physically capable than men, when in fact women in the military have been asked to do less for decades, said retired Marine Lt. Col. Kate Germano, who was in charge of training female Marine recruits at Parris Island. “I saw first-hand on recruiting duty and at Parris Island that when women were held to higher standards for performance, they rose to the challenge every time,” Germa…
/r/MensRights17/08/19 10:17 PM
1

I’m sure she brought up the cultural issues internally before she was discharged. And I’ve read what she had to say elsewhere: what her detractors called “toxic leadership” her supporters called “an attempt at fixing the cultural issue”. Although I have no doubt that there may be some overlap. And ten years is not to calculate whether or not men and women can meet the same physical standards — we already know they can, since 25% of female applicants passed. I meant that in ten years, if there is…
/r/MensRights17/08/19 09:50 PM
1

I expect most women to fail the next round as well. But retired Lt. Col. Kate Germano, in your link, seems to believe that a part of that fail-rate is a cultural issue in the training department, so I feel like if we revisit this topic in ten years we’ll see an improvement. What do you think?
/r/MensRights17/08/19 09:14 PM
-1

That’s the Army Basic Fitness Test, which is for all military personnel irrespective of position. I was talking about the Army Combat Fitness Test, which is for front line soldiers and will be gender neutral as of October 2020. (Check the link in the first sentence of the article you shared). Seems like I was wrong about the implementation date, but it’s still progress :) I’m happy to see changes like this.
/r/MensRights17/08/19 07:56 PM
-1

Ah I see. That’s the Marine’s, I notice now that the link I had found was for the Army. And the latter only changed to a gender-neutral standard last year. The Marines seem to be an example of that relic of the past I mentioned. When they changed the requirement for the Army, it was noted that women still managed to pass, so I hope the Marines will soon follow suit. The changes to the PFT you linked apply to both men and women, btw. If men or women choose to do push ups instead of pull ups, or p…
/r/MensRights17/08/19 07:36 PM
-3

I was trying to find information about your claim and I came up with some contradictory information, actually. Mother Jones had a little myth-busting article that seemed to indicate that there are always more fears than true concerns when a new group is being included, as was the case with the military accepting homosexual soldiers. As far as I can tell, men and women in combat positions are held to the same physical standards, and when they aren’t it’s more an indication of a past relic than an…
/r/MensRights17/08/19 06:58 PM
3

I think it’s about choice. What is currently happening is that we take a naturally occurring statistic — 73% of boys prefer to play with knives over selling cookies, let’s say — and then make an obligation out of it: since 73% of boys prefer, 100% have to do it. “Boy Scouts” and “Girl Guides”. If we just drop the gendered title — “Scouts” and “Guides” — and then just let kids pick the one they prefer, then I think we would have more human freedom. Maybe there would still be an obvious gender wei…
/r/MensRights17/08/19 06:31 PM
3

Call them Scouts and Guides. Scouts would be wilderness survival stuff and Guides would be urban and social stuff, like business acumen and event organizing, whatever. I think that would be pretty cool. You could even join both if you want the full experience.
/r/MensRights17/08/19 06:22 PM
2

I find it’s a strange thing to disparage the motive of an attempted suicide as “just seeking attention”. Isn’t lack of attention from others and little outside help with our overwhelming problems the reason people see suicide as the only option?
/r/MensRights09/08/19 04:16 AM
1

Ah that’s too bad, it would have been cool to hear what you thought about it. I’m working on a dissertation and still ironing out some kinks. Conversations really help :) and I thought your perspective would be really valuable, because of how you mentioned that you don’t think men need therapy. But don’t even worry about it! Take it easy UUUU, keep taking care of yourself. Hope you’re in a better place now.
/r/MensRights04/08/19 03:05 PM
-2

UUUU I hope you are in a safe and happy place in your life right now. I’m glad you survived your darkness. May I ask for your impression of my perspective? Sorry if it came out a bit long. I think we have a larger issue with seeing men and women as more different than similar. We attribute some characteristics or qualities to be exclusively masculine or feminine, and punish deviation. Talking about your problems or “opening up” is about organizing your ideas, not about being a man or a woman. It…
/r/MensRights03/08/19 07:27 PM
1

Hi Zeref! I'm sorry to hear about your stressful situation :/ has it improved at all in the last month? Please take as much time as you need, and rest assured that it is always a pleasure to receive your reply :) I look forward to reading what you have to say, the last thing I want is to be an extra burden on you. As you can tell I also take my sweet time, haha. I like to digest your answer for a bit before I say something, because I'm not here to contradict you. I truly think we're on the same …
/r/MensRights14/02/19 12:26 AM
1

I think I might have condensed in too few words a previous idea. Honestly, democracy is power and freedom to all people. Including the freedom to not be actively involved in politics if you don’t want to, in which case you could have someone you trust represent you. And education is directly involved in making this possibility practicable. Indoctrination is the blocking of people into fixed thoughts; education is intellectual empowerment, the training of critical thought and curiosity in all sch…
/r/MensRights13/01/19 04:07 AM
1

I don't think there is only a binary choice between force or complete instability. Ostrom's research shows that the common-pool system works, at least on small scales and under certain democratic conditions. There is power in community and reputation that I believe you are disregarding -- people do the right thing when they are being watched, especially when the watcher rotates between members of the community. The setting of limits for oneself is integral to this sort of system, too. ​ An impor…
/r/MensRights07/01/19 12:36 AM
1

Thank you for your kind words Hill, they mean quite a bit to me :) ​ I can agree with your definition of capitalism, at least conceptually (we can argue about who has the most strength when 8 business owners have accumulated 50% of the wealth on Earth, but I agree with your main points). However I would like to add that capitalism's goal of "accumulation of capital" does not define limits for itself. I don't think that the free market model works on a responsibility level for this reason. When i…
/r/MensRights06/01/19 09:06 PM
1

Hi Hill, I hope you had a very merry holiday and I wish you a happy new year :) ​ I'm sorry I took so long to get back to you, I had crazy finals (finished my first semester of law school!) then my birthday and Christmas, so I postponed typing out this response. Hope you don't mind me jumping back into it! ​ Ostrom's idea is basically that communal management of common-pool resources (such as your agrarian example, or fisheries or water-access) is more effective and more adaptable than top-down …
/r/MensRights02/01/19 11:56 PM
1

Zeref! I hope you had a wonderful holiday, and I wish you a happy new year :) ​ I took my time getting back to you because I wanted to think about what to say, and I thought that my reply would be rushed if I tried typing it during finals and then the Christmas social rush. Hope you don't mind me picking up where we left off! ​ I've been mulling over your answer. The bottom line for you, if I understand, is that the system is good the way it is and it's a person's responsibility to shape themsel…
/r/MensRights02/01/19 11:31 PM
1

Ah the part of my idea I was most excited about you didn't address... How we could be accumulating wealth surplus in a public pool rather than private savings, with people able to easily extract their share of the value when they want to make purchases beyond their necessities (a new technology, or a vacation, or an outing with friends...). This way, we could invest more powerfully into big public projects. I find cryptocurrency similar in the sense that it changed where the money is stored. How…
/r/MensRights01/12/18 05:20 PM
1

I picked a random list off the internet called "The Greatest Minds of All Time", and did a little research on the top results. Bear in mind that literacy rates means the amount of people over the age of 14 who can, at the bare minimum, read and write. Stats taken from OurWorldinData.org: - Leonardo da Vinci : all around genius, artist. Born out of wedlock to a very wealthy man who supported his education in Latin, geometry, and mathematics. Literacy rate in Italy in 1475 was 15%. Verdict: privil…
/r/MensRights01/12/18 06:13 AM
1

Yes, something of the sort. I think all of the means to produce a functional system exist, but they are not being put to public use unfortunately. I think people become happy and inspired when they are given freedom. If you can choose how many hours you will work, without having to worry that you won't be able to provide for yourself or your family if you work less than 40, then you enjoy your work more and you get to do more of the things that you are passionate about. There's a reason most int…
/r/MensRights01/12/18 04:37 AM
1

Hmm I was actually thinking more along the lines of empowering individuals systemically. Create self-sustaining local infrastructures in order to provide the bare minimum to people, like urban agriculture, proper transportation, that sort of thing, and so make sure that even those who don't work or work very little still have the means to benefit from the standard of living society creates (safety and comfort). However, those people who excel and go above and beyond would still get rewarded for …
/r/MensRights01/12/18 04:26 AM
1

I think we could maybe move past money, then. If currency has emerged after thousands of years of experimentation, then it only bears to reason that we have not necessarily reached the end of its progress. Cryptocurrency is pointing one way... but maybe if we thought of a different way of using the ethereal properties of the internet... I imagine like a centralized bank of hours, where a person's hourly labour is worth a basic sum multiplied by a algorithmic formulation of their personal qualiti…
/r/MensRights01/12/18 04:17 AM
1

Hey. I can't really just throw a bunch of sources at you, I don't think that would be very interesting. So I'll just summarize some of the research and theorizing that's been done. One really important guy was Karl Marx. He gets a lot of flack these days because of the revolutionary solutions he proposed, but the problems he uncovered are pretty fundamental: he talked about class struggles. Since the definition of private property, the bourgeoisie have been a small percentage of the population w…
/r/MensRights01/12/18 04:00 AM
1

I just think it's unfortunate how the current economic system makes investing resources into a family a bad thing. Women are economically punished for taking time off to give birth and recover -- on the front page of this sub right now there have been a couple trending posts about the pay-wage gap. The studies all say the same thing -- women earn less than men because taking a year off work hurts their career path. Most of the comments basically say "oh, so all these women are complaining about …
/r/MensRights01/12/18 03:08 AM
1

I can't agree that the only reason people work is for themselves. It seems a little weird to say that someone spends 8 hours a day working a job they hate because it's important only to them, and to no one else in society. Work is an essential part of self-fulfillment because it makes you relevant to society, it makes you necessary for its good function, and societal recognition is a pillar of self-worth. ​ Sure, there is always some work that is only beneficial to the person who does it, but in…
/r/MensRights28/11/18 03:49 AM
1

I just feel like we could be doing this whole "society" thing a little better.
/r/MensRights28/11/18 03:36 AM
1

If I could collect a bunch of resources for you that could disprove a lot of what you believe about homelessness, poverty, and welfare, would you be interested? Questions about what the world's problems are and what are possible solutions to them are my passion, and from what I've learnt, the vast majority of people in these unproductive situations are held down by systemic issues that chip away at their ability to help themselves. Only a small percentage are those who are just lazy, or connivin…
/r/MensRights28/11/18 03:34 AM
1

No, that was a really good answer, I had to think about my reply. ​ I like your explanation about the economy -- the study of how people make decisions. So it's not an axiom of this study that the main drive for most modern decision-making is money -- that's just a contextualized description of what it is that motivates decisions. And money is a symbolic stand-in for the accumulation of resources, so really people are motivated by safety and comfort. ​ Could we imagine an economic structure wher…
/r/MensRights28/11/18 03:21 AM
1

We compensate the future adult for future work, but not present parent for present work. Even though the work is "preparing other people to work", in any other context that is still an important job. ​ All your questions are really good. I don't believe there's an easy, ethical answer to them. I was thinking more along the lines of a universal compensation, with no regard to the type or quality of rearing actually going on.
/r/MensRights28/11/18 03:07 AM
1

I think there are more ways of convincing people to take care of each other outside of "waiting until there is an apocalyptic event that decimates humanity" :P
/r/MensRights28/11/18 03:03 AM
1

I guess I am more concerned with quality over quantity. And I don't think quantity is a good reason to slack off on quality.
/r/MensRights28/11/18 03:02 AM
1

I don’t think the economy was designed around the family — rather I think that it was designed with the domestic sphere and the professional sphere as separate domains, with little or no overlap. In other words, it wasn’t designed for a society where women, child-rearers, work full-time. I think that what should be taught in economy and business schools is that making money is not the most important thing for humans, and companies are more valuable than just money-making machines. They are part …
/r/MensRights26/11/18 12:28 AM
1

When day-care is affordable most women opt to go back to work, as was demonstrated in Quebec when parental leave and childcare subsidies were instituted. Domestic work is not valued as a societal good very much, as is demonstrated in this thread by the people who say “having kids is your choice, not my problem”.
/r/MensRights26/11/18 12:23 AM
1

I disagree with your assessment of the lower class. I base my opinion on personal experience, which I could describe for you if you are curious, as well as my studies. But suffice to say that I am intimate with them. First, I don’t think we already make sure everyone has the bare minimum. Just the fact that people become homeless, that many kids don’t get food outside of school, that people die of preventable or treatable illnesses is proof of that. Second, popping out babies is accessible — rai…
/r/MensRights26/11/18 12:18 AM
1

No you’re right, that’s not what I meant. I think that if you do a good job raising a human being, they turn into adults who do good things for society. That’s an essential service, and honestly I think child rearing is in a category of its own, not comparable to cleaning your house.
/r/MensRights26/11/18 12:09 AM
1

I think making people better goes hand in hand with giving them the keys. Empowered people are better.
/r/MensRights25/11/18 11:21 PM
1

I don't think your approach actually stops people from breeding. It just makes the ones who are bad off worse. I think we could make people kinder/smarter/healthier as a whole in society if we had a more collectivist philosophy underlying our economy and societal structure.
/r/MensRights25/11/18 10:44 PM
1

I think that's a different problem with a same root... we're not collectivist enough in our philosophies. We could avoid a lot of bad parents by making sure everyone has the bare minimum to not have to stress about them, in the same way we could make raising a family and succeeding professionally more accessible.
/r/MensRights25/11/18 10:41 PM
1

I'm sorry I've offended your sensibilities.
/r/MensRights25/11/18 10:38 PM
1

I suppose... I just think that since we are dependent on a global network of interconnected labourers that adopting a more collectivist philosophy would be the responsible stance.
/r/MensRights25/11/18 10:37 PM
1

I am interpreting your awesome metaphor to mean that you consider domestic labour as intrinsically valuable, no need for money compensation to prove that -- and I completely agree with you there. But I think that child rearing is not considered an important thing -- a lot of responses here are saying that it's a personal decision, nothing more, and that if you suffer negative consequences financially if you decide to start a family that's your problem. I think that's unfortunate... We would be b…
/r/MensRights25/11/18 10:32 PM
0

I have read the opposite, in fact! It turns out that domestic labour is constant, and having the technology just means you do more than one thing in the day, you don't spend the whole day washing the laundry. The same study also shows that domestic labour is still following a strong gender divide. So I don't really agree with your statement about the housewife's diminishing value -- even working mothers still do more house chores than working fathers. Also, most families can't afford to hire a m…
/r/MensRights25/11/18 10:28 PM
0

I guess the ones that don't pay attention to market forces are the ones that try to shake things up, right? ​ I just think that our economy wasn't designed with families in mind, and I think that's unfortunate and that we would be better off as a society if we considered child rearing an essential part of any industry. Because without kids there would be no industries. I think paternity is such a huge part of child rearing, too.
/r/MensRights25/11/18 10:21 PM
1

It doesn’t feel right to me. I’ll try to explain, but this is the first time I’m putting these ideas down in writing so I may not be very clear, I’ll try my best. When you work a job, you benefit society three times — by working a necessary labour, and second by contributing to taxes with your salary. You can convert the rest of your salary into necessary goods (home, food, heat, etc) or recreational goods for your own pleasure and enjoyment, which it turns out contributes right back to society …
/r/MensRights25/11/18 09:42 PM
1

I think that’s the point I actually am trying to make... it’s not just an individualistic decision, that only impacts/benefits the immediate parents. Starting a family is the biological drive that is foundational to the very existence of society itself. It’s work that is essential to everything. Without children, there is nothing. Imagine if everyone decided tomorrow that they will all make the economically responsible decision of never having kids. How will that impact society? The market? What…
/r/MensRights25/11/18 04:46 PM
1

Ah I thought maybe you weren’t seeing my point. My bad! “It takes a village”. I’m not asking that we need to raise each other’s kids. I’m saying that it would be better for everyone if we gave each other the infrastructural resources to raise our own kids properly, and valued that domestic work as necessary to the economy and the country as a whole.
/r/MensRights25/11/18 04:31 PM
0

Hmm, I would consider that an incidental side effect, not a direct valuing... the market takes a hit when a mother takes her maternity leave to give birth and heal, because it was not designed with this outcome in mind. The market is extremely resistant to instituting paternity leave because it doesn’t want to extend that hit. The fact that the kids come out better adjusted and more productive if you give parents the time to be parents isn’t why companies get around to installing parental leave …
/r/MensRights25/11/18 04:29 PM
2

Oof, no. Your mum doesn’t get to decide how many babies you have, and with whom. That’s messed up.
/r/MensRights25/11/18 04:24 PM
1

I tried replying yesterday but it looks like it didn’t go through for some reason, so I’m sorry if you’re getting two replies! :O As you can see, the downvotes are pretty automatic when I participate in this sub because I am a staunch feminist :p that’s ok, I’m used to it. I still like participating though, especially when I get people actually engaging back in good faith. And for the record, I never advocate for only the defence of women. Men need protection from our systems too, the patriarchy…
/r/MensRights25/11/18 04:23 PM
6

See that’s what I’m saying!!! We are all each other’s responsibility. We are a human collective, a big family. Thinking of ourselves as only individuals is hurting us all.
/r/MensRights25/11/18 04:00 PM
10

That’s exactly what I’m saying. Why is this the way we operate? There is no society without a future generation, so why act like having children only matters to the family?
/r/MensRights25/11/18 03:50 PM
8

The problem is that the economic system as it exists does not value domestic labour. It considers raising a family as a choice that you can easily say no to, and that if you choose to have children it’s only your problem to handle individually. Don’t you think it would be nicer for everyone if the market considered raising a family as just as integral to the good function of society as working a job?
/r/MensRights25/11/18 03:19 PM
-39

The only one there that makes sense is the “all women are gold digging whores” statement. That’s a gender, ie socialized normativity, problem. False rape accusations are a small fraction of the whole picture, and they fall within “lying people” category — ie all the people who falsely accuse others of crime in order to benefit (from theft to rape to murder). It’s a small (yet non-negligible) percentage in all those cases too. I think that as rape of men starts being taken more seriously, men wil…
/r/MensRights23/11/18 02:16 PM
1

I‘ve been thinking of what to say. I feel like on one hand you’re definitely right. Individuals have free will and are in control of their own actions, and should be held accountable to them. But on the other hand, I think that while everyone has free will, most people don’t really use it. I’ve spent a lot of time studying the cultural and symbolic structures of our world views, and the ways our brains have been moulded by them. We have necessary defence mechanisms to preserve these structures, …
/r/MensRights15/11/18 05:56 AM
1

Thank you :)
/r/MensRights15/11/18 05:18 AM
2

You are right to feel angry my friend. I will not censor your emotions. But you must be careful with your anger. You are not trying to scorch, or cause more suffering. You are only trying to make the heat uncomfortable. This is a lesson I have learnt from feminism. The anger is valid, and should be felt. The aggression is natural, but should be tamed. There is a delicate balance to consider in our attempts to make the world a better place. I will not comment on your relation with your parents. I…
/r/MensRights13/11/18 03:44 AM
2

I do it because you matter. 😄😁😅😂☺️😊😉😌😍😘😙😚😋😛😝😜🤨🤓😎🤩😏😒😞😔😟😕☹️🙁😣😖😫😩😢😭😤😠😡🤬🤯😳😱😨😰😥😓🤗🤔🤭🤫🤥😶😐😑😬🙄😯😦😧😮😲😴🤤😪😵🤐🤢🤮🤧😷🤒🤕🤑😈💩☠️👍👎🙌👏🤞✌️🤟🤘👌👋💪🙏🙈🙉🙊💥🔥✨⚡️⭐️💧💦❄️☀️🍻 Here are a couple to get you started on this magical emoji tour 😝
/r/MensRights13/11/18 03:31 AM
2

Yes it works! I can put a bunch of emojis here for you to save my comment and come back to if you want haha
/r/MensRights13/11/18 03:04 AM
2

Thank you for standing up for me! If we’ve decided that a game is bad, it doesn’t get better when the players switch sides. I appreciate you remembering that. Best of luck to you as well ♥️
/r/MensRights13/11/18 03:03 AM
2

Oh I’m on my tablet, and I can change my keyboard to different languages and to the emoji selector. Like this (In other words I’m cheating 😉)
/r/MensRights13/11/18 01:45 AM
1

Hey now u/MussieGangEnrichment , we shouldn’t be so quick to dehumanize each other like this. My boyfriend was given a “normal” and never had a reason to question it — ignorance doesn’t make us monstrous, especially when our personal experiences only reinforce our ignorance. Otherwise there would be no point in trying to learn and be better! I am saddened that you felt the need to say that, and I am thankful there were other people on this sub who were much kinder and more understanding than you…
/r/MensRights13/11/18 01:41 AM
3

No, I have seen that MGM and FGM are very much the same, even in their spectrums of “this is bad”. Thank you for your input, you helped educate me here these last few days.
/r/MensRights13/11/18 01:36 AM
2

Thank you for being so delicate with me u/anticitizen2501 :) I agree with you, I think it’s a problematic practice. I was convinced by the many replies I got and an informative conversation with OP. But on another note, I want you to know that you’re doing it right. The nice comments like yours were the ones that really got me thinking.
/r/MensRights13/11/18 01:33 AM
3

u/VicisSubsisto is right, you know. While I am personally here right now, engaging in good faith despite the negative reaction I’ve gotten to exposing my genuine ignorance, most people would not be. I participate in this sub at my own peril, because I am a strange person. I have been told by many of my friends and family that I am wasting my time by spending it online discussing with MRA. And at times, I am really disappointed by the toxicity. My boyfriend was circumcised. His parents don’t plan…
/r/MensRights13/11/18 01:28 AM
1

Thanks u/perplexedm I have been talking to a few people here and reading up on all this. If you want to tell me your story you can share it, I will read it. I guess I just never really questioned any of this because the men in my life were telling me something and I just took their word for it. Because what I had learnt regarding circumcisions was the medical so-called benefits of it (and literally the only example I was exposed to of a circumcision going wrong was Bruce/Brenda’s story in my psy…
/r/MensRights13/11/18 01:16 AM
1

😁
/r/MensRights13/11/18 01:03 AM
2

Me too
/r/MensRights13/11/18 12:59 AM
2

Honestly like I mentioned in my other comment just now, I never had reason to question my “normal” about this topic. The evidence seemed good enough for me. But now that I have been made aware of a bunch of facts about MGM and FGM, I will be educating myself. So you’ve already done your job on this regard u/MenDeserveRights :) Thank you. However, you are a cool dude and I would be very pleased to continue talking to you about anything else.
/r/MensRights13/11/18 12:38 AM
2

No, and I understood that, I was just explaining my personal bias due to the fact that two of the three uncircumcised men I am intimate with had issues with their penis, so I figured that penis issues were common and that a regular procedure to prevent potential issues wasn’t problematic at all. I never had reason to question it.
/r/MensRights13/11/18 12:34 AM
1

No. And I probably won’t for a little while. Last time I came up to him with “hey your family has been doing something ignorant and needlessly harmful for generations and you should be the one who goes against tradition” it did not end with “wow you’re right thanks for notifying me”. Telling him he would be infringing on his son’s human rights is a heavy topic and I have learnt to approach these things with a lot more grace and tact and empathy. So I will be doing this at my own pace, because th…
/r/MensRights13/11/18 12:07 AM
1

Well it’s a little private and not my story to tell publicly lol but in broad terms one had a little tear at 21 and the other had an issue that most likely would not have been influenced either way by a circumcision that he got surgically fixed at 17.
/r/MensRights13/11/18 12:02 AM
1

Lol I couldn’t tell you. I am very much stuck in my own cultural normativities right now, I’m still only just learning that there are different ways to do things haha. But I’ve learnt a lot from this thread.
/r/MensRights12/11/18 12:29 AM
3

I think you may have misunderstood my point about my brothers. They definitely never had any side effects of MGM because they were never circumcised. I remember learning how to wash them properly from my mum when they were little babies. No soap! But I will do my best to convince my boyfriend otherwise about cutting our baby.
/r/MensRights12/11/18 12:27 AM
4

I promise I’ll do my best u/MenDeserveRights
/r/MensRights12/11/18 12:24 AM
4

Yea that seems to be the consensus on the situation. I guess that’s a conversation that will have to happen eventually..
/r/MensRights12/11/18 12:22 AM
18

Oh wow thanks for the response, that’s the kind of insight I was looking for. And I thankfully am already aware of the general ignorance regarding what the clitoris actually is, I was lucky enough to have learned that from my fellow feminists. They are both done on non consenting individuals, they both take pleasure away, they both are unnecessary surgeries and it shouldn't matter the difference in severity if it violates the rights of the person. I think that’s the point I will be making to my …
/r/MensRights10/11/18 05:03 PM
6

I completely agree with the bodily autonomy question. I myself only got my ears pierced when I was old enough to say I wanted it done, not when I was a little baby like so many other kids. But I guess I never really equated circumcision with FGM, because the women are traumatized and crippled by it into adulthood, and my boyfriend, and other men I know, are not. So I never paralleled those two procedures with each other in my mind. They don’t serve the same purpose, to my understanding.
/r/MensRights10/11/18 04:59 PM
-8

I guess it’s just cuz I didn’t really consider it mutilation :/ Because of what “mutilation” means for me in the context of FGM, and contrasting the way men and women have experienced these procedures differently. “Mutilation” always felt like too strong a word.
/r/MensRights10/11/18 04:56 PM
6

I guess it’s not so much that I think it’s appropriate or good, just... incidental? Like getting your kid’s ears pierced. Because my boyfriend doesn’t seem harmed by the procedure (he’s actually pretty adamant about it happening to our child), I was never confronted to the negative aspects of it. Especially given that in MR circles it’s usually compared to FGM, and the women I’ve met who underwent that procedure were traumatized and crippled by it even in their adulthood, I suppose I don’t reall…
/r/MensRights10/11/18 04:52 PM
0

I have met women who were mutilated, and men who were circumcised (like my boyfriend). The women who were mutilated say it ruined a big part of their lives and they fight every day to prevent that from happening to other girls. My boyfriend says whether or not our baby gets circumcised will be his decision, because I don’t have a penis and he knows how circumcision feels. He wants to cut our baby like he was, I don’t think it’s necessary, but ultimately it will be up to him. So to me, while circ…
/r/MensRights10/11/18 04:07 PM
2

Alright buddy, whatever you say. Have a good one ✌🏽
/r/MensRights05/11/18 01:01 PM
1

Where did I say that I want to control others? Where did I say I want to censor basic freedom of speech? Where did I say that the solution to the problems I’m bringing up is tyrannical legislation and dictatorship? What I have been saying is that we should be having a conversation. That we should consider feelings (not just mine — the collective feelings of women) to be valid, and cause for concern, and motivation for introspection as a society. That there are many reasons that the world should …
/r/MensRights04/11/18 11:35 PM
2

Hey hey! Hope your Halloween was as fun as mine. Where are you, even? Do you guys do Halloween? I’m in QB, Canada :) You don’t feel like I’ve been making an effort to find points of agreement with you? I’ve honestly been conscientiously trying to do so, like in regard to the need for due process, the value of humour, or the fact that there’s definitely room to be less offended by things... but if it hasn’t been meaningful to you yet then I’ll try harder, it’s important for me that you feel like …
/r/MensRights02/11/18 10:01 PM
1

There is no objective reasonable standard. I don’t even find the standard used in law to be the most reasonable. So I’m not going to impose one on you, it’s not necessarily important that we agree on what reasonable is. But I think that sometimes we encounter something that at first glance, by our standards, does not seem reasonable. But it’s only because we don’t know enough about it; upon deeper inspection, we gain a new perspective and it fits into what we consider to be reasonable — maybe it…
/r/MensRights29/10/18 06:44 PM
1

By stipulating "perhaps", you imply the possibility that somebody out there has never taken offense at anything said...ever. Hmm I meant more along the lines that "perhaps" there will always be at least one person who will take offense at something said, even if it's something as mundane as "the sky is blue". I think, though, that there are some safe statements -- ie I doubt that anyone would really be offended at "the sky is blue". But you never know. This actually ties into the point of narrow…
/r/MensRights26/10/18 03:23 AM
1

Are these the Standard Rules? I like them, pretty smart haha And yea, that’s a very important point. But it’s in two parts we live in a world where somebody will take offense at anything said. Perhaps this is true. But let’s narrow down whose opinion here we are actually interested in. Neuro-typical, reasonable people. I would describe a “reasonable” sense of offense as one whose root cause can be traced to an external source that causes undue prejudice. So if someone is able to explain, logical…
/r/MensRights25/10/18 11:58 PM
1

Most definitely interested :) I’m just bad at replying 🙈
/r/MensRights25/10/18 03:37 PM
1

Hey u/Standard_Rules_Apply , sorry I took so long to get back to you! Started falling behind with my school work :O I don’t want to break down my reply the way you did yours, forgive me for not going point-by-point over what you brought up, but I’ll try my best to answer all the questions. Of course I have expectations of others. I try to be conscious of them, and try to pinpoint where they come from, but sometimes I am completely unaware of my biases and need to be called out on them. Something…
/r/MensRights24/10/18 10:54 PM
1

Hey u/-manatease , sorry I took so long to get back to you! Those are very interesting points. I guess I am mostly coming at it from my limited experiences, but what prompted me to say what I did absolute physical strength becoming less of a factor in human society was that when I worked in a male-dominated industry (oil fields in Alberta), while the physicality of the job was demanding, as a small-statured woman I was not falling behind the bigger, burly men. It wasn’t about being the strongest…
/r/MensRights24/10/18 09:26 PM
1

Thank you for sharing. Such a sad situation :(
/r/MensRights19/10/18 02:09 PM
1

The change of context I meant was the metaphysical reality of our current economic/political world. The digital, non-physical realm, if you will. We are increasingly valuing minds rather than bodies, and feminism emerged in that context. It’s been going on for over a century now, I’m not explicitly talking about our current generation, just “current context” from the perspective of all of human history. (Is this not a reality for the whole globalize world?) Whether or not this new context allows…
/r/MensRights11/10/18 01:57 PM
2

Exactly!! I feel the exact same way. Strangers have no business dictating my mood or expressions.
/r/MensRights11/10/18 01:51 PM
0

Bro. You’re ignoring my points. Anyway, bed time for me. Have a good night.
/r/MensRights11/10/18 05:14 AM
0

But I’ve already said that patriarchy isn’t a conspiracy against one gender or another... it’s not about making conscious decisions to privilege one sex over the other, it’s an ideological evolution that has placed what we call “masculine” traits above what we call “feminine” traits. It’s not even so much about the gendered person per se as about what values the person represents. No one is “sent off to die” in the sense that you’re saying. There is an issue, we as a society believe that the sol…
/r/MensRights11/10/18 04:49 AM
1

Hmm disagree with “internalized patriarchy = female privilege”. Women weren’t barred from war because of a female conspiracy to send men off to die. It was, and is, a consequence of our society’s normalization of “men = strong & capable” and “women = weak & incompetent”. In a society that solves its issues with violence, warriors are heroes. Women don’t get that “honour”. And who says feminism doesn’t pay attention to this? The reason things are changing is because of a feminist critique that de…
/r/MensRights11/10/18 03:26 AM
0

Feminism, as I have learnt it, calls what you describe “internalized patriarchy”. Women are just as much part of the fabric of society as men, so we have just as much power in perpetuating societal standards as men — even more so, as you described, because we are a child’s first exposure to society. We are the first teachers. But patriarchy isn’t an “Illuminati” organized system of oppression. It is an ideology that places masculinity hierarchically above femininity. Strength is better than soft…
/r/MensRights11/10/18 02:52 AM
1

It’s kind of a long winded explanation... but basically it comes down to the expectations we have for each other. Men are expected to be strong and stoic, women are expected to be soft and caring. That is expressed most superficially in our welcoming body and verbal language — girls shouldn’t be rude (or blunt), shouldn’t be bossy (or directing), and should always be open and accommodating. It’s the “feminine” way. Telling a woman to smile is telling her that she’s not being welcoming enough, sh…
/r/MensRights11/10/18 12:55 AM
1

So is it a gendered issue or not? I say women are expected to act a certain way, you emphatically deny that and come back at me with the opposite claim, that men are expected to act a certain way... I honestly think we’re both right. There are many unfair expectations based on gender, for both. Feminism explicitly talks about that and theorizes on where they stem from, but that’s not my point right now. You can tell me about your male experiences, I’ll listen. But I expect the same from you. Wit…
/r/MensRights11/10/18 12:45 AM
5

There’s a difference between being morose and visibly in a bad mood, and being stoic or simply bland. And in both cases, telling someone to smile won’t really make anyone feel better. It’s just that the latter comes from a sense that women should be welcoming and pleasant at all times, while men have the liberty to be more chill without being labelled as cold. We don’t tell serious men to smile, but we do tell serious women that they are off-putting when they don’t.
/r/MensRights10/10/18 09:17 PM
4

Telling a woman to smile is not the same as complimenting a woman on her smile. One is sexist, the other is nice. There is a very important difference between the two but you guys don’t care about the nuance. You just don’t like feminists.
/r/MensRights10/10/18 09:11 PM
0

Toxic masculinity results in lack of paternal masculinity in domestic domains (home, schools...).
/r/MensRights25/08/18 02:50 PM
3

It’s not true that you can’t do anything about this. It’s hard for girls to deal with stalkers and it’s probably harder for boys, but it doesn’t mean there’s nothing you can do. First of all, document everything. All the backlog of when you were together, all the messages she and her friends send you, screenshot the FB posts, and if she or anyone you know is associated with her (a “flying monkey”) calls you, tell them you are recording them (and do so). Document, document, document. Second, you …
/r/MensRights18/08/18 08:58 PM
14

Ah that’s him! Thanks :) But he doesn’t really give his sources either... the only studies that have found the percentage of false reports to be higher are ones based solely on detectives’ subjective perceptions about accusations. So I’m not too confident with Sheriff Rowland’s assertions. The response to his statements were more research and there was nothing conclusive about what he said — again, studies found it to be between 2-10% false allegations. Here’s the WaPo piece after his statements…
/r/MensRights05/08/18 01:08 PM
18

I was surprised by how high the number reported here was, so I’ve been searching for other corroborating sources, or at least similar results... couldn’t even find the US Sheriff’s claims that someone else mentioned here. What I did find through Google Scholar though is that not only is the number recorded by many other studies much lower (peaking at about 8% of false accusations), but also that “unfounded” cases (lacking sufficient evidence for prosecution) are also frequently tallied in false …
/r/MensRights05/08/18 12:42 PM
-1

I’m pretty sure the tradition of marriage comes from literal ownership of women by men. If you want to be disgusted with the way things have changed and how terrible they are today, that’s one thing. But you don’t need to rewrite history to do that.
/r/MensRights28/07/18 04:35 PM
2

I just think it's a hashtag. MeToo isn't anything more than a conversation. And I don't know, man. You've heard that saying, "if someone's a jerk to you, they're a jerk, but if everyone's a jerk to you, then you're the jerk"? If one woman complains of oppression, then she's a complainer. But if all women are saying it... doesn't that mean anything to you? Maybe there's a truth you don't want to look at here. Peace, my friend. Call me up again whenever :)
/r/MensRights08/05/18 07:17 PM
1

MeToo is a blunt object. Help us sharpen it. Feminism still needs your guidance to get through this inevitable turbulence. In all of our human history, we are still taking the first steps in this "equality" direction! This is our relationship, the way we are interconnecting in society right now. I'm not even sure you and I are in the same country, but we are making the future together. But we're doing it in the same way #MeToo did. It's a hashtag, the embodiment of this powerful new technology h…
/r/MensRights08/05/18 04:05 AM
1

I do not think what happened to you was an aberration. I am well aware of the terrible things women can do - to men and to women. No group of humans (especially not one which is basically half of all humans) is all good or all bad. I still feel incredibly sad for you, because while not aberrant, it is abhorrent, and you were stolen of something precious. But the thing is that I believe some things are the result of individual mental instability, and others are systemic habits that are committed …
/r/MensRights07/05/18 06:35 PM
1

Well that's the definition of a black/white position: your opinion is settled. Anyone you critique for having that stance will give you that answer. Here's a nuanced approach to MeToo you might finding interesting https://www.vox.com/2018/4/5/17157240/me-too-movement-sexual-harassment-aziz-ansari-accusation
/r/MensRights06/05/18 03:57 AM
1

Thank you, I'll look into it! Looks like a big read so I'll have to set myself up. I'm pleasantly surprised that you would say that though, honestly you've been giving off a pretty black/white vibe yourself.
/r/MensRights06/05/18 12:38 AM
1

I went to check out that sub, never had heard of it! Again, valid concerns divorce courts, the attack on masculinity, the institution of marriage, social expectations on men, etc. I can't disagree that there has been a systemic defranchising of men in family courts. Which makes sense, seeing as the family is the traditional territory of women, so that would be where they'd have had the most success pushing back. But there it is again -- it's a push back, which means that there are other issues t…
/r/MensRights05/05/18 03:16 PM
2

Thank you, I appreciate that ☺️ I respect that you think it's an ill conceived movement. I think you should respect what calling something "a holocaust" actually means. We're on the same page after that ;)
/r/MensRights05/05/18 04:14 AM
1

... I don't think your household was representative of anything normal, Peon :/ I don't think you hung out with very wholesome people growing up, by the sounds of it. A person who tells you that men are monsters does not believe in gender equality (unless they're calling women monsters too), so I have a hard time describing that person as a feminist. But I understand that feminism, like any large group, is not a monolith. If you were in marches you're probably well aware that even within feminis…
/r/MensRights04/05/18 10:43 PM
1

Bill C-51 is sitting in Senate, undergoing its second reading. It has not been passed, and in fact has been facing a lot of criticism for its violation of the charter where it concerns the defendant's rights. The adjustments (basically reverse disclosure) are being discussed because there was a recognition that the legal system is not designed to handle the complexities of sexual assault accusations properly. Trauma victims are confused and do not remember details exactly -- this has been found …
/r/MensRights04/05/18 01:52 PM
1

We're not disagreeing on the problems. Some women lie about having been raped and are believed by the justice system. Men who are raped, especially by women, are not believed. We're disagreeing on what these problems mean. What systems they reflect. You say the bad women are evidence that feminism is bad, because believing women in court is dangerous. I say there are bad people in every demographic who will take advantage of the legal infrastructure, but they are a minority and we shouldn't desi…
/r/MensRights04/05/18 12:25 AM
1

Sure. But on what basis do you decide when the feeling of being violated reflects the fact of having been violated? You can call it backbone if you want, I'm calling it lack of empathy. You're disregarding the lived experience of nearly half the population.
/r/MensRights03/05/18 10:18 PM
1

Ah, don't you worry about me :) I like hearing different perspectives. You're not saying nothing with the "road to hell paved with good intentions" bit. I just think you're exaggerating with how far down that path we've gone already. I wish you wouldn't deny others' complaints about society because it doesn't match your personal experience. If almost every woman is saying they feel "lesser than" men in our systems, I feel like it's important to believe that. Same with men. I find a lot of you ar…
/r/MensRights03/05/18 09:38 PM
1

Huh I just went back into my conversation with you. You're the one who said Metoo was the beginning of the end for feminism. For men, metoo has been 9-11, Pearl Harbor and the Great Depression all rolled into one. You have alienated far too many of us for men to ever be part of the movement again. I should have recognized your hyperbole lol. I think we were done anyway when you said the reason you hated feminism was because women abused you. I'll tell you again what I said last time: I hope you'…
/r/MensRights03/05/18 08:39 PM
1

Wow you're so dramatic 😂 I'll get back to our conversation later, actually. I had to stop because I was getting distracted from school but I just graduated yesterday so I'll be back at it ;) get ready for my condescension and zealotry.
/r/MensRights03/05/18 03:58 PM
1

Take care of yourself amigo.
/r/MensRights04/03/18 03:37 AM
1

We've reached the gender/sex debate. A male (sex) can display feminine traits (gender) and vice versa because what is considered "feminine" and what is considered "masculine" are societal constructs. That still has nothing to do with sexual orientation, though. So a gay (s.o.) man (sex) can be either masculine or feminine (gender) because the gender thing is about the roles, personality traits and physical characteristics that we traditionally associate with one genital or another. It's meaningl…
/r/MensRights04/03/18 02:28 AM
1

What is all the supposed inequality taking place right now? The ideological thing I pointed out in the last comment. How femininity and everything associated with it is not considered valuable. How women need to masculinize (be less emotional, less sensitive, etc) in order to be perceived as competent, because those feminine traits are considered incompetent. The inequality is ideological. What is feminism going to do for me, this guy right here, to make my life as privileged as that woman over …
/r/MensRights04/03/18 02:18 AM
0

Saying it's a coordinated attack on men is like saying the patriarchy is a coordinated oppression of women. Neither of those are true. You're pointing out the individual cases of bad people doing bad things. As for Senator Dan Johnson, I find it particularly weird that he would ask everyone to “Forgive and Love everyone especially yourself” and “blame no person, Satan is the accuser so blame the Devil himself." That sounds like the situation was a little more complicated than just "unfairly accu…
/r/MensRights04/03/18 01:47 AM
0

Castration of men would be more akin to vaginal obliteration then, not so much circumcision. And it was reserved for a specific class of people considered subhuman and not worthy of breeding. I could argue that both castration and vaginal obliteration are not quite gendered violence, but rather class violence. An early form of eugenic sterilization. That's why I didn't really find it an appropriate argument. Circumcision is different, because of the arguments that are used in favour of each of t…
/r/MensRights04/03/18 01:36 AM
1

Peon I'm so sorry. It's so terrible what you've been through :'( You didn't deserve that, and your mother and sister are bad, abusive people. I hope you have found the support you needed my friend. If you haven't I can help you. But MeToo is about you as well. While only a few men have come out through the hashtag, and mostly as victims of other men, a hashtag movement was never meant to be the entire conversation. It was a way to begin spreading awareness, so that we could start having difficul…
/r/MensRights04/03/18 01:15 AM
1

I'm a feminist, and I'm here talking to a Men's Rights Activist to get him to participate in feminism in order to fix it. Why do I think we need to fix it and not just scrap it altogether? You pointed to it yourself. I believe women are still not considered equal to men. Equality is not limited to the wage gap or the legal system listening to one person over another in a specific type of dispute. You know that. It's about deeper things than that. It's about the ideological foundations of our soc…
/r/MensRights04/03/18 01:00 AM
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You're using big words dude. Let's be reasonable here.
/r/MensRights04/03/18 12:38 AM
2

You're right, there isn't an NOM. There won't be until matriarchal feminism, which has usurped the conversation (I would argue that that is in great part due to sensationalization in the media for profit, but that is a tangent), is replaced by a more balanced narrative. The more balanced narrative requires both men and women speaking about it. If the MRA spoke in the name of feminism, then they could say the same arguments and yet be heard for once. Right now the MRA is speaking against feminism…
/r/MensRights04/03/18 12:27 AM
1

You've been nothing but polite my friend, and any anger you feel is justified. I think our main disagreement is that on a balance, you believe that feminism has hurt men more than it has helped, while I believe the opposite. I've found from all of these comments that I've received that my arguments are more abstract, less concrete, than you would appreciate. To me the fact that we're even having this conversation is more than anything else combined. The fact that we are able to debate gender, ge…
/r/MensRights04/03/18 12:03 AM
1

I'm so sorry if I'm coming off that way :/ that's not good at all. I'm in this sub precisely because MRA have important points to make and a valuable perspective of gendered issues. I disagree with the demonization of feminism but not with the harms that have been done to men in the last few years. If I ignored any points it's because I thought I had addressed them, when I must have said them to someone else. My apologies.
/r/MensRights03/03/18 07:10 PM
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I never said it increases sexual pleasure definitely. I said that has been one of the arguments used in favour of it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/28258953/ But there have also been studies saying the opposite. My only point was that while "increases pleasure" is an argument for male circumcision (for the benefit of the male), it was never an argument for female circumsision (the onus of benefits were for the father/husband ensuring purity). I think that's one of the reasons FGC was abo…
/r/MensRights03/03/18 06:59 PM
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9-11, Pearl Harbor, and the GD, eh? That's pretty brutal. Sorry you feel that way my friend. I do agree that there has been a loss of due process in the upheavals of the last few months, but that is being directly addressed. It is wrong, and it will be fixed, because it must be. But if you don't think the MeToo movement was important, and that it has struck a huge blow to one of the deepest issues women continually face in the workplace, then I'm definitely not going to be the one to convince yo…
/r/MensRights03/03/18 06:39 PM
1

Hm. You're right, I do have a tendency to be more meta than concrete with my arguments. I guess it's just my field of study, which is more abstract in terms of cultural deconstruction. I'm sorry too if you thought I was flippant and rude. My apologies. How has feminism helped men? First of all, in many ways indirectly. I know that's not good enough for you, but to me bringing gender deconstruction to the conversation has been immensely helpful to men. By questioning the "women are weak" narrativ…
/r/MensRights03/03/18 06:22 PM
1

What are you proposing exactly? :0
/r/MensRights03/03/18 01:20 AM
1

Yes, which is why the feminist movement started by trying to get women into men's roles, and not the opposite.
/r/MensRights03/03/18 01:06 AM
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Circumcision on females was about reducing sexual pleasure and ensuring virginal purity, for the purposes of a successful marital transaction between a father and a husband. Male circumcision is about honouring Yahweh for the Jews, and a misguided belief in hygiene for the rest - one of the arguments for it is that it will increase sexual pleasure in the future. Apples and oranges. Universities have positions exclusively for women because they had historically had very few females on their roste…
/r/MensRights03/03/18 12:55 AM
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I know you're very angry, and justifiably so. You are right that there is not enough outcry for everything you have stated. That girl's memory was betrayed by the justice system. Feminism is not about hurting men. Hurting men is the backlash from reacting too vehemently. It's the unfortunate consequence of pressure being blown. It is not acceptable. But we need to consider all of these movements as a collection of people, with human brains and emotions. Of course those women don't want to admit …
/r/MensRights03/03/18 12:32 AM
1

What's your verdict? :p
/r/MensRights03/03/18 12:21 AM
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Glad I waited before I replied, nice ninja edit. I assure you that men were just as guilty of guilting the boys as the women were. And you are certainly right - had women been enlisted to go get their brains blown out many of them would have been singing a different tune (or would they? The men certainly weren't, and they were getting their brains blown out). All this to say that you sort of gave me my point: when we are put in the same positions, we can get a better perspective of the issues. N…
/r/MensRights03/03/18 12:10 AM
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Well of course. I never denied any of that. And I certainly didn't mean to paint myself as a poor little victim. But even in regimes where women temporarily held ultimate power, the structural integrity of society placed women below men. Women were not considered people in most aspects - obviously money and power could play a big role in each individual case, but you can bet your angry butt that those were tokens and not the norm. We're not here to talk about exceptions. We're here to talk about…
/r/MensRights02/03/18 11:48 PM
2

Lol nice pun ;) Even after the war, women were still told that they shouldn't be in school. It didn't stop right after the boys came home, you know. I think the last segment to blow that one over was STEM, and that's why there's been so much focus on that. Because women were literally being told it wasn't their place to study math and engineering.
/r/MensRights02/03/18 11:25 PM
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You mean like the "illuminati" idea that men are in control of society? Is that a definition? :p If that's what you meant then I hope you realize that's not what I was trying to imply at all. Society comprises all of us, men and women, and women can be just as patriarchal as men. Although the society we live in was designed to value male roles above female roles (think the non-family-friendly workplace, or the glorification of violence and brute strength in media, or the denigration of emotions …
/r/MensRights02/03/18 11:14 PM
1

The vengefulness is human nature, unfortunately. It's happening with the Black Power movement and the demonization of whiteness, it happened with the Red October revolution and the murder of capitalists, and it happens when an abused child grows up and denies their parent everything. The pendulum swings with the momentum that held it up. But listen to yourself. You say that the worst that can happen is that some Republican states deny women agency over their own bodies - like that's not some kin…
/r/MensRights02/03/18 11:04 PM
1

Ok let's put that all into perspective. If it weren't for feminism we wouldn't even be having this conversation - men never would have thought that not staying at home with the kids, or getting sexually abused, or being stigmatized for wanting to be a nurse are problems. It hadn't even crossed their minds in the thousands of years they were at the top. We are able to have these discussions today because it used to be that the pillar of WOMAN was much shorter than the pillar of MAN, and now that …
/r/MensRights02/03/18 10:45 PM
1

You are mistaken. Feminism has worked. I am able to vote, and go to school, and make my own decisions concerning my body because of feminism. How could we ever be having the conversation about child custody if I had never gotten the right to oversee my children after divorce? (They were the men's property). How could we be talking about gender parity in caretakimg positions like school teacher and nurse if it weren't for women being allowed to be in the workforce? The thing is I had cancer, and …
/r/MensRights02/03/18 10:33 PM
1

Well here's the thing, feminism is about equality. That's literally the definition of the word. It's about the ideological hierarchy we have about the worth of masculinity and femininity. One is deemed lesser than the other - masculinity makes a woman stronger, more able, while femininity corrupts men. So the movement for supporting equality should first and foremost deconstruct why inequality is happening in the first place. You are right, though. The movement has swung the pendulum too far. It…
/r/MensRights02/03/18 10:20 PM
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This movement You mean the Men's Rights movement? Don't you end up with the same branding problem? :p You have a very valid point in saying that FEMinism seems to by its very name center only on women. But the thing is that the name indicates the origin of the movement for gender equality - women who stood up for their own agency - as well the deepest underlying problem of gender inequality in the first place: the fact that femininity is considered lower than masculinity. For men that translates…
/r/MensRights02/03/18 09:55 PM
1

The post you linked is very relevant. I wasn't personally aware of the extent to which men's issues have been systematically silenced, but I figured there was something like that happening. That is wrong, and we are working toward solving it my friend. But you know that every movement that wants to bring difficult topics into the public sphere goes through this. When feminism began, it was the exact same thing - the women who dared to propose that they were not objects to be owned through marria…
/r/MensRights02/03/18 08:45 PM
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That is not equality. That makes it not feminism. I don't want to be a gatekeeper but when the only definition of feminism is "the movement for equality of genders", it's not hard to see when something is or is not feminism. That is a brutally misguided legal stance. Not feminism.
/r/MensRights02/03/18 07:27 PM
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Haha :p Well I'll just pull up Wikipedia because I love it. Feminism is a range of political movements, ideologies, and social movements that share a common goal: to define, establish, and achieve political, economic, personal, and social equality of sexes. By addressing the balance of the sexes it is inherently talking about more than only women. The fact that it doesn't directly address the way that oppression of genders is a two-sided coin is what the next Wave will remedy. For that we need m…
/r/MensRights02/03/18 07:10 PM
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It is true and sad that the pendulum has swung too far. Yet one of the reasons for this continued momentum in the wrong direction is in your phrasing: a movement based on revenge for a past long buried It is not in the past, and it has certainly not been buried. There are women still in the workforce who remember being told in school that they should go home because they were stealing the men’s spots. My mother was raised in that world, and she fought tooth and nail to break those barriers — her…
/r/MensRights02/03/18 06:29 PM
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Of course you can be a masculine man, my friend! The same way a woman can be a feminine, stay-at-home mom if she wants to. The words of the day are liberty, and choice. But my point was that the fact that men can’t really be feminine without being bumped down the “man hierarchy” points to a continued devaluing of womanhood — it infects men, taints them, makes them lesser than they could be if they were into masculine things. It’s the essece of homophobia, and one of the core battles of feminism.…
/r/MensRights02/03/18 06:09 PM
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Most people in the UK do not identify as a feminist And that’s ok! It’s a contentious word, and most people don’t like to get in the middle of this debate, preferring to spell out “I support equality” rather than picking a label. I would imagine that not many people identify as a MRA either, and yet you are still making good points that most would agree with.
/r/MensRights02/03/18 05:50 PM
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I completely agree with you. There is a lot that needs to be adjusted, on both ends of the spectrum.
/r/MensRights02/03/18 04:00 PM
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I completely agree. Feminism isn't the issue -- hate for men is the issue.
/r/MensRights02/03/18 11:32 AM
-32

I agree that those are not examples of equality. I also agree that the current wave of feminism is making big deals about men's advantages but not a peep about their disadvantages. But I disagree that Feminism is not equality. It is literally the battle for equality of the sexes -- and it has undergone many changes over the decades. It will adapt again and bring true equality to our society. We can argue that it should change names, but I think that there is a historical tale being told with the…
/r/MensRights02/03/18 02:59 AM
2

You're completely right. I haven't done anything to criticize feminists who openly hate men so far on Reddit because quite frankly I haven't come across those posts yet :/ I guess I'm on the wrong subs, or I just missed them. Though when I used to frequent 9Gag I did see a lot of those types of comments, and I made sure to say my piece to them as well. On Facebook too actually, I've had a hard-core matriarch try to publically humiliate me because I was contradicting her stance on "all men". But …
/r/MensRights27/02/18 06:29 PM
3

I think that's not very productive of you, to generalize like that. Feminist scholarship and academia has changed the world as we know it, and continues to be an important influence in the public discussions we have. Yes, there are self described feminists who could more objectively be called matriarchal. They do not think the sexes are equal. But they are also unproductively contributing to the conversation, just like you were with that comment. The article was very even handed with the deconst…
/r/MensRights27/02/18 03:34 AM
2

Very insightful. A thorough approach, even handed, and completely genuine in tone. Thank you for sharing!
/r/MensRights27/02/18 03:27 AM
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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