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Clever_Ploy Archive

View 0 posts and 108 comments by Clever_Ploy on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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1

I'll look into it.
/r/MensRights25/01/12 04:13 PM
3

Personal initiative, although responsible people would call that the everything equivalent of a life jacket.
/r/MensRights23/01/12 09:31 PM
2

Does anyone think that sexual liberation and legal brothels go hand-in-hand? I'm only coming from an equal rights standpoint here, but look at the legal brothels in Nevada: Clean, safe, legal work for what I understand to be great pay. If any given woman or man has a right to their body, sexuality and consent.. why not? Or more accurately, given an individual's rights, what prevents such a legalization other than socially imposed morality? You may not like the idea, I may not like the idea, but …
/r/MensRights23/01/12 01:54 AM
6

Yeah really, I miss Costco now and I've never worked there. I just took a glance around my apartment to see if there's anything I need 10,000 of.
/r/MensRights21/01/12 10:34 PM
6

Stop objectifying me.
/r/MensRights21/01/12 10:12 PM
2

Yeah, fair enough!
/r/MensRights21/01/12 09:53 PM
13

Steady on, I already said I agreed! Also, for what it's worth, I actually can't imagine a man putting all his stuff in one box and then asking someone else to move it for him. In my brain, that man is me, and I'll move it myself because I posses herculean strength. If you really want to get into detail, I'll say this much. Anybody, man or woman, who loads all their heavy junk into one container when they have access to three, realizes they can't lift it, and then looks for someone stronger to li…
/r/MensRights21/01/12 08:23 PM
17

I agree with what you're all saying, I really do. It's not at all decent to expect such things of men. Nevertheless, is it wrong that when someone, anyone really, asks me to move a heavy box - my only thought is "challenge accepted"? Maybe it's just leftover blue pill nonsense. I dunno. Is it screwed up that I'm not down with white-knighting, but I am down with showing off my strength? Or, wait. Could that be likened to a woman showing off her looks? I mean it can be argued that men, amoungst th…
/r/MensRights21/01/12 06:39 PM
1

If the law states that abortion is legal, at or before any given stage of pregnancy, and we're thinking strictly in terms of a woman's right over her own body, then she technically has the choice to abort for whichever reason she pleases, does she not? It's entirely true that some or even many of those reasons may seem innately immoral, but it stands to reason that if abortion is legal, the moral question of the woman's reasoning is no longer on the table. Or, to look at it another way, how coul…
/r/MensRights21/01/12 05:46 PM
5

I actually think I'm going to start using "Let's not boil the ocean" more often, while phasing out "Workin' hard or hardly workin'!?"
/r/MensRights20/01/12 09:39 PM
1

Again. Just like arguing with a feminist. "We should be in control, here's a bunch of links." That second article is a compelling read, especially because it outlines all sorts of inequities that could be solved with a commitment to equality and responsibility under the law. What issue, presented in your article, cannot be solved with equality under the law? You and I both want bullshit, gender specific entitlements off the table permanently. My method enforces equal accountability, you seem to …
/r/MensRights20/01/12 09:24 PM
1

This is exactly like arguing with a feminist or a fundamentalist. You're never going to be happy until the group you favor has the sole power to dictate law and behavior to everyone else, and I won't be happy until no group can do it. Your "evidence" is that at one time, our group had this power and we were a little less angry, never mind the expense to others that such power would constitute today.
/r/MensRights20/01/12 06:45 PM
1

You're basing an argument for tradition on a belief that the courts can't be bound to an impartial standard. Follow your logic through to it's conclusion and the courts can't be held to any standard, so we may as well just abandon it and rule by strength. Like I said, agree to disagree.
/r/MensRights20/01/12 05:43 PM
36

The article sucks, but only because it's poorly written and a little dumb in general. Nevermind the man / woman argument, this lady just reinforces the well-known fact that in any given white collar business, people in management are sometimes morons that honestly believe they contribute to the company simply by existing. Seen Office Space? Well, women can be Bill Lumbergh too.
/r/MensRights20/01/12 05:26 PM
1

And there we go confusing equal rights with some general notion of equality. Listen. I'm not harshing on your ideas, in fact if you have an all encompassing solution, I really would love to hear it. The problem is I think I've probably heard it before. I'll tell you now, every single person I've spoken to who just wants to control people, be they radical feminist, zealot, politician or otherwise, never wastes an opportunity to talk down the potential of equal rights under law. That's been the si…
/r/MensRights20/01/12 07:23 AM
1

No argument here. Decentralization of power and the protection of equal rights has, typically, only been attainable through public outrage. Just look at SOPA.
/r/MensRights20/01/12 05:26 AM
1

To be honest, I don't know. However, what I do know is that our generation has not yet attempted to truly enact equality in individual rights and under the law. Do you think feminists would bother me if women were forced to be accountable for their own choices, the way men are? Do you think I would be nearly so offended by being thought of as a rapist, despite my good character, if I knew I was protected by an unbiased court and my right to due process? Do you think homosexuals would pay heed to…
/r/MensRights20/01/12 05:01 AM
6

I believe we'd actually see something of a cascade effect among women. An increase in abortion rates would occur, temporarily, but welfare reliance would plummet. In the bedroom, the axiom would shift from pregnancy being something a man does to a woman, regardless of her responsibility - to pregnancy being something a woman allows to be done to herself, regardless of the man's intent. The first thing we'd see is a drastic increase in the practice of safe sex, as women become aware that they're …
/r/MensRights20/01/12 03:22 AM
3

I don't know about that. I mean, not that I'm against abortion, but even if it were illegal, I don't believe there's any way a person or the state can force a woman to keep and raise a baby she doesn't want. I've heard the argument that if an unmarried woman had a baby and wanted to give it up, but the father claimed it, he could nail her for child support. I haven't ever read a case of this happening, but I have read cases where despite the father's wishes, the mother still abandoned the child,…
/r/MensRights20/01/12 03:07 AM
4

Prostitution is inherently legal for the mostly the same reason that gay marriages are. We can do logic math with individual rights. Body plus consent = freedom of sexuality, legal prostitution. Plus property = Marriage between any two consenting adults. I.e. The death rattle of puritanical social control. Easy beans. Not that I can read the future, but I can't help but think that if prostitution and gay marriage were legalized tomorrow as per equal rights under law, it wouldn't be a week before…
/r/MensRights20/01/12 02:10 AM
1

I understand what you're saying completely, and please believe me when I say I know full well that men and women are not at all the same, but I won't speak in absolutes about human potential. What I wish is that we could first establish real, legitimate equality of rights in North America, not genders, but rights, both individually and under law, and then.. you know. Give it a minute to see where it goes. Feminists keep hitting up senseless talking points like gender representation and the wage …
/r/MensRights20/01/12 01:13 AM
6

Someone's got to help me with this concept. It's breaking my head. I absolutely cannot understand what the issue is with comic books or video games. Anyone can make and publish a comic book, and anyone can get a startup dev company going. Men and women alike are limited only by their ambitions when it comes to these businesses. It takes a huge pile of work, and of course you need a quality product to make money, but anyone can get started. Women are already doing this successfully today! Are the…
/r/MensRights19/01/12 04:45 AM
6

We're entering an era of prenups for girlfriends.
/r/MensRights16/01/12 11:28 PM
2

First of all, thanks for the reply. I apologize for any snootiness on my behalf, I thought you were arguing against equal rights inside the realm that we currently live in. If I'd known for sure you were an anarchist from the start I don't think I would've wasted your time. Whether or not anarchy is superior is of course, up for debate and worthy of debate. Unfortunately, it's not the current state of the western world. The system that exists is one where law is meant to be written based upon ri…
/r/MensRights16/01/12 07:42 AM
4

Yeah. Precious laws. Is a law against murder not precious? Laws under equal rights disallow actions that infringe upon the rights of others. Again with murder, our equal, individual right to our lives is what defines the notion that violating that right is a crime. Violating the personal rights of another person also infringes upon their individual autonomy. Bias is caused by a lack of equality in the courts. Bias disappears when the court sees individuals only as their rights, and not as their …
/r/MensRights16/01/12 12:27 AM
8

Definition confusion. What, then would you call it then when a law is passed that blatantly violates a human right that we all share? I chose social control. What's your preferred terminology? Many of our most precious laws are based upon our equal individual rights, but some of our most horrific laws directly infringe upon individual rights, or create new rights or unique punishments, based on gender or race. Take Santorum and his proposed anti-birth control laws, or anti-sodomy laws. Take any …
/r/MensRights15/01/12 11:40 PM
10

Straight pride parades are ok, just kind of needless. Equality isn't reached by quota, (a.k.a. Filthy, filthy social control) it's reached by equal rights under the law. Homosexuals and pride parades, though perfectly fine all on their own, can easily be seen as a non-violent, friendly protest of the extreme inequality these individuals have to deal with. The same could almost be said of male pride parades, but men are so heavily demonized as creatures of hatred, I doubt they'd so much as be gra…
/r/MensRights15/01/12 10:57 PM
13

The application of economics to sex is fascinating. It's probably the most novel interpretation of the social dynamic that I've seen. Good grief, can you imagine if safe brothels like the ones in Nevada were legalized and regulated nationwide? That would constitute a stock market implosion. Anyway, while I think some credit for the "price drop" in regards to sex is probably owed to women simply feeling more confident in expressing their sexuality, I have to say one very important thing about por…
/r/MensRights15/01/12 05:43 AM
9

San Francisco approved a November 2011 ballot measure to outlaw circumcision of minors in the city. But a judge took if off the ballot last summer, saying the city has no authority to ban circumcision. WHAT!?
/r/MensRights15/01/12 04:17 AM
9

Paul is the only candidate I've seen even mention equal rights under law. He's also the only candidate who I'm convinced would even attempt to audit the federal reserve, as well the as only would who would leave Iran alone, and the only one whose platform has nothing to do with his personal beliefs, and everything to do with the constitution. In short, he's the only one I've seen discussing actual politics. Presidents can get elected in the United States based on completely irrelevant social iss…
/r/MensRights15/01/12 03:46 AM
7

Once my country grants it's citizens equal rights under law, I'll consider dying to protect it. Until then, my disposability is mine, and I reserve it for those I choose to protect. If corrupt governments and radical activists can't be bothered to so much as give men their rights, then they, in fact, can grow up, take responsibility, and save themselves. Maria has no reverence for the idea of another person giving their life to defend hers. Think for just a second, if you're capable, what it wou…
/r/MensRights15/01/12 03:23 AM
21

And this is exactly why you cannot allow a person to be convicted of a felony based solely on the testimony of their accuser. Just another example of a biased and screwed up legal system that has absolutely no interest in Equal Rights under law. If Feminists are convinced that the crime of rape isn't being taken seriously, their best bet is to head to the courthouse and demand that government start with appropriate trials, according to rights under law. Two rapists walked on this case because th…
/r/MensRights15/01/12 02:23 AM
3

Oh good. More blatant inequity. Four years. Equality under the law demands that every crime be punished on the same scale. If you hold an entire group to a higher or lower standard of punishment - you are literally defining a second class of citizenry. Why is this not obvious to a judge!? "Sexual offenses against children by their own mothers are "rare"" If by "rare" you mean "more common than offenses by their fathers", then sure/s. Nevertheless, this is irrelevant. She's been convicted of a fe…
/r/MensRights14/01/12 05:27 PM
2

Assuming these people care at all about equality, which would mean this shit works both ways, what am I supposed to do if I come home drunk, hop into bed, and my girlfriend jumps me then and there? I'm drunk god dammit, I can't consent!!! Do I have to call the cops on my girlfriend now?! It's not her fault I was drunk!
/r/MensRights11/01/12 09:35 PM
2

I don't think most women realize they're being stripped of their right to consent, either. Unless you're sober and for safety's sake, probably provide a signed document, you can't have sex without generating a criminal. It's like prohibition on uninhibited sexy times. Maybe it's just my stupid individualist brain talking, but I wouldn't sacrifice any right I currently have for the sake of less personal responsibility. Aside from maybe children, who doesn't want to be 100% in control of their own…
/r/MensRights11/01/12 09:29 PM
8

I hope the girls who decided not to join basketball teams don't get bullied over this. How wonderful that the senseless, idiotic machinations of their parents should put them in such a position.
/r/MensRights10/01/12 12:33 AM
1

That's because babies just happen to women and men get them pregnant! Yup, and that's exactly the kind of fundamentalist, ancient gender role silliness that would be obliterated if equal rights under the law were successfully implemented. Step one to solving a huge number of inequalities in parental law, along with the current "epidemic" of single mothers that we see today is to ensure that men have the exact same right to opt out of parenthood that women do. Individual responsibility for our ri…
/r/MensRights09/01/12 09:59 PM
1

Can't technically disagree with you there, but if men had an equal right to opt out of parental responsibility, paternity fraud would really only be possible on married men. Please allow me to explain. If equal rights are served and a man is under no obligation to become responsible for a child he does not want, the choice to opt in to parenthood is his and his alone, and he would be well within his right and as such, his responsibility to confirm his paternity before agreeing to anything. Given…
/r/MensRights09/01/12 09:27 PM
3

Exactly. What good is a law that forces us to pass someone else's responsibility between us, when in reality it needs to be given back to the person who owns it. This insanity doesn't do a thing to address the inequity of rights in the legal system, it only tricks us into trying to blame each other for the bullshit that's been foisted upon us all.
/r/MensRights09/01/12 07:31 PM
3

SELF EDIT: Removed a paragraph that didn't actually promote equal rights. Can't have those floating around. Forcing a previously unknown biological father to pay not only new child support, but also pay back old child support is like... double slavery, and again the woman is completely free of accountability, which makes me want to go out and egg a courthouse. Just because the legal system will take a woman gently by the hand and politely encourage her to screw over whoever she likes, doesn't me…
/r/MensRights09/01/12 07:23 PM
2

It sounds like a nightmare. I watch Coronation Street every day (in Canada) and frankly I'm happy I only heard about this after LeVell was exonerated. The whole thing would never have been my business anyway, without a conviction. My heart breaks for victims of rape, male and female, young and old. However, if we intend to serve of the cause of equality under the law, we must understand that we cannot have a special crime with a special accuser, without accepting a special accused as well.
/r/MensRights09/01/12 05:17 PM
1

I am thus enlightened.
/r/MensRights09/01/12 04:49 PM
1

Imagine the impact on the art world.
/r/MensRights09/01/12 04:40 PM
2

Exactly, but at the same time you're kind of reiterating my point. If equal rights are present, we need no longer concern ourselves with who wants to drag who into what - and who doesn't. We would't need to suspect women of foul play. Because it's not that women aren't trustworthy. It's only that we'd be seriously endangering our right to personal autonomy to take them at their word when it comes to birth control. This isn't necessarily the fault of women, but a result of an unequal society.
/r/MensRights09/01/12 08:49 AM
2

Some people have NO desire to be a parent, ever. You rang? As an individual who is, regrettably, but nevertheless infinitely annoyed by children, I am willing to admit that I may in fact never willfully consent to becoming a parent. While I do accept that I may one day become suddenly enamored with the thought of fatherhood, as so many men are, for the time being I can barely even tolerate the presence of teenagers. So anyway, as you can imagine, it really makes me feel super great that a woman …
/r/MensRights09/01/12 06:00 AM
1

You two don't need to be having this argument. If abortion is legal, it's the woman's option and only her option. She's the owner of the incredible machine, only she can decide for it and be held responsible for those decisions. If a man can reason her out of an abortion, fine. If not, he's going to have to deal with it. Statistics, anecdotal evidence, personal feelings and the rest of it cannot match up against Equal Rights under the law. Women have sole right and responsibility over their bodi…
/r/MensRights09/01/12 02:42 AM
4

I hold doors for nearly everybody, especially when it's a glass door and I see them approaching from the other side. I suspect this is because I am never in a hurry.
/r/MensRights09/01/12 12:45 AM
3

As someone who's lived his entire life trusting every girlfriend who swore up and down that she was practicing birth control, I thank you. For giving me something horrifying to think about.
/r/MensRights08/01/12 09:53 PM
3

If the father wants the child and the mother doesn't, his only option really is to hope that she'll abide by his request. This isn't actually an equal rights issue, because both people's rights over their own bodies are actually intact. It's nobody's fault that the woman's body can become pregnant, which gives her the extra decisions and responsibilities. I guess the bottom line is that there is no way for a man to actually decide for a woman that she'll either abort or carry a fetus to term, si…
/r/MensRights08/01/12 08:22 PM
5

I'd take that pill. I'd actually like to make the process more fun by suggesting a male contraceptive pill that not only eliminates the risk of pregnancy, but makes my semen (safely!) glow in the dark. Like, neon blue semen. What? You can get glow in the dark condoms, can't you?
/r/MensRights08/01/12 08:05 PM
1

Amen to that. Without the ability to view things objectively, who knows what kind of crazy shit we'd believe. P.s. None of you are real, you are all figments of my imagination created for the sole purpose of keeping me busy when there's nothing on TV.
/r/MensRights08/01/12 07:56 PM
2

For the most part I completely agree with you. Seriously Ben, don't you remember anything from the last time you and I went at it? The definition of rights may well be as moral or immoral as you please, it's Equal Rights that are important to me. If one person has or is given a right, every single other person must and without exception also be given the exact same right, and treated the exact same way under law. The alternative is like instant tyranny soup mix. The only way you've ever offended…
/r/MensRights08/01/12 07:45 PM
3

Actually, you're ignoring the welfare of the child, possibly because you believe that every child must be born. Equal right to opt out, almost specifically, means fewer at-risk children will ever be conceived in the first place. That's how these arguments that people make against you actually do consider the welfare of children, by positing that if everyone involved in coitus were responsible and accountable for their own bodies, fewer at-risk kids would exist to begin with. Or would you prefer …
/r/MensRights08/01/12 07:31 PM
1

Ben has free speech like the rest of us. Please don't think that I'm trying to scold you, it's just I feel he has the right to say what he pleases, how he pleases, just as we have a right to debunk or downvote the crap out of him.
/r/MensRights08/01/12 07:09 PM
3

Not at all. However, I'm not actually arguing from my personal perspective. Yet another discussion we've had before. I've told you before that if it were up to me, no child would be born without a bevy of signed legal documents and mandatory aptitude tests for both parents. The difference between you and I is that I realize my dream-world is tyranny, and so I've set my moral opinion aside to focus only on the equity of human rights. Also, I've SEEN you write that you advocate both parents being …
/r/MensRights08/01/12 06:57 PM
2

No, it's not. I know you're only joking, so I'm sorry for being uppity. But seriously. It's not.
/r/MensRights08/01/12 06:31 PM
3

See, this is exactly the way our conversation went before. You want to impose your personal morality to fabricate a right for children that doesn't exist, and then use it as justification for women having a right that men do not. Newborns have the same fundamental rights as adults, and being raised by natural parents isn't one of them. If you want to argue that it should be, fine, but nobody, including the majority of feminists, is going to buy that line as anything other than an inequitable att…
/r/MensRights08/01/12 06:28 PM
4

We've been over this. Biology doesn't have any effect on equality of rights. You're simply using it as an excuse. Men and women both have an equal right, and thus an equal responsibility over decisions concerning their own bodies. It just so happens that women's bodies can become pregnant. Your point of view asserts that this is something that was done to women against their will, and as such they can't morally be held responsible for their decisions. The curse of biology has, in fact, zero effe…
/r/MensRights08/01/12 05:41 PM
9

Women don't even have to inform the father of the baby's existence. She can abort the fetus without telling him, or carry it to term and abandon it without legal ramification, without ever informing the father. Also, you again operate under the assumption that any court in this country would allow a man to force a woman to pay him child support for a baby he wanted but she didn't. The truth is, if she doesn't want a child, she is well within her rights to simply abandon it, in which case a fathe…
/r/MensRights08/01/12 05:23 PM
3

Hello again. I see you still believe that any given child has an inherent right to be raised specifically by it's natural parents. It does not. While, as before, I agree that children are best cared for by both of their natural parents, simply believing as such does not validate a violation of equal rights. We can, if you like, argue this point again until we agree to disagree on the nature of equal rights, or you can simply just argue it with new people. Either way I still think you'll find tha…
/r/MensRights08/01/12 05:06 PM
7

Exactly. If we're assuming the legality of abortions, then that's a choice that only the individual whose body it affects can make. While equality would mean men having an equal right to opt out of parenthood, a woman's freedom to abort or carry a fetus to term doesn't actually constitute a right that men lack, but rather a unique decision that is simply tied to her right (and responsibility) over her own body, a right that men also have. There is literally no way to grant men a legal ability to…
/r/MensRights08/01/12 04:49 PM
1

I don't think sanctions are necessary, so long as paternity tests are possible and no individual can be considered legally responsible for a child that isn't theirs without first consenting to guardianship. I don't see a need (ever, really) to legally punish women who become pregnant, even through infidelity, so long as men are guaranteed equal rights under the law.
/r/MensRights08/01/12 04:10 PM
1

Totally fair statements, but one person's ignorance of their responsibilities doesn't automatically mean they transfer to another person. I'm not saying it's loads of fun, but it's still a woman's responsibility to understand potential conflicts with her medicine. Unwillingness to educate yourself about your own body doesn't justify demanding financial liability from a man for a child he didn't want. Also, what self-respecting individual would want to openly state that they shouldn't be asked to…
/r/MensRights08/01/12 03:55 PM
2

I find a lot of flak is thrown at the notion that a woman is responsible to protect her own body from pregnancy. It often summons up declarations that pregnancy is something that a man does to a woman, a burden he places on her, and if he doesn't want to get a woman pregnant, he should consider abstaining from sex. However, I don't believe biology has the power to affect equality, but instead merely modifies the number and type of choices one is responsible to make, regarding their own body. Due…
/r/MensRights08/01/12 09:31 AM
3

I do absolutely everything I can to avoid statistics, as I feel they're not usually necessary to advocate the logic of equal rights, however I continue to be baffled by the thought that the most popular and readily available non-permanent methods of birth control are 99%+ effective, and still over half of pregnancies (60%-70%) are unwanted, accidental or otherwise unplanned. I cannot rationalize numbers like that without accepting that there are a lot of people out there who aren't taking their …
/r/MensRights08/01/12 09:14 AM
3

Same here. I always had opinions on equal rights, but having the truth about equal rights to opt out of parenthood explained to me like I was five (thanks GWW) is pretty much what unlocked my brain. Since that epiphany I've been able to successfully reconcile every social issue I come across with the concept of equal rights. To say it's been a liberating experience would be something of an understatement. I think, before that time, I had basically accepted that women were simply scary as hell an…
/r/MensRights08/01/12 08:54 AM
14

I second that. I'm sorry that you had to quit your job, I truly hope you don't have any trouble finding a new and better one!
/r/MensRights08/01/12 02:27 AM
2

Ridiculous. Basically what you're doing here is trying to paint up a situation where it would be okay for a husband to subdue and restrain his wife at his own discretion. That or, you could be advocating that it would be alright for any given individual to subdue and restrain any other individual, so long as their intentions are good. (Like say, the belief that they're preventing a crime.) If you can't see how this blatantly stomps on the concept of equal rights under law, then I don't think we …
/r/MensRights08/01/12 01:12 AM
2

I didn't say anything about cops and citizens. Police officers could take Jill's keys and place her in the drunk tank because they're civil servants granted the authority & responsibility to enforce law. Also, I'm only interested in individual rights. Nobody can arbitrarily deputize themselves and start fighting crime whenever and however they like. I don't understand where it is you think I'm deciding that men are powerless peons. Try to reason it out in your mind again, this time without autom…
/r/MensRights08/01/12 12:28 AM
1

Calling the cops is the only way to do it. If you were a cop, and on duty, then sure, you could take the keys from her and toss her in the drunk tank. Even then, you'd need proof of intent, or more likely, to catch her driving drunk. Drunk or not, however, no individual has the given right to restrain or detain another individual, except in self-defense. It's not our right and thus not our responsibility to protect morons from themselves. If it were, then we'd be seeing friends and family member…
/r/MensRights07/01/12 11:45 PM
1

I can't apologize enough for taking so long to get back to you on this, and it does help me immensely, so thank you. The way I'm seeing it now is that sexism, as a descriptor, comes in two forms. It can be attached as a motivation for discrimination, but also a relatively harmless mindset. It's the blurring of the two that worries me. I still stand firm that Hitchens' assertions that women shouldn't have to work are in fact completely harmless, even to society. The only person he could actually …
/r/MensRights07/01/12 02:55 AM
19

Any given nation is responsible only to it's definition of human rights. But it must be responsible. For example. Honor killings must not be tolerated in countries where every citizen has a right to their life. That's prison time for homicidal family members. In a country where every citizen has an equal right to their own body, circumcision must be illegal. It's not an attack on another culture's traditions, it's a preservation of a sovereign nation's human rights code. It's abhorrent to demand…
/r/MensRights04/01/12 07:51 AM
3

That's cool. But I do have a question or two. And it's really just for my edification, as someone who is neither a WRA or MRA, but merely an advocate for legitimate equal rights. If there are answers to these questions, I want to reconcile them with my concept of equality via equal rights. Given that his relationship with his wife was not only well within their rights, but protected by them, and given that his words are simply his opinion, which carry no authority and thus do not violate any ind…
/r/MensRights04/01/12 06:41 AM
1

Given that everyone's got equal rights in the eyes of the law, and given that no individual's actions may infringe upon the rights of others, two consenting adults may interact with each other however they please. Sex, marriage, interpersonal shit. It's nothing special, just an extrapolation of individual rights we're entitled to as human beings.
/r/MensRights04/01/12 05:26 AM
7

For what it's worth, in that statement he essentially endorsed women who want to be responsible for themselves and cast off gender roles. Though, that's just his opinion. Essentially, everything else he says is basically just his individual opinion, which is weightless. His words only really have the power to enrage people who want to control how individuals think. I mean, I don't see it his way either, but I can't fault someone their opinion, especially if it doesn't interfere with the concept …
/r/MensRights04/01/12 03:17 AM
1

I don't know what I can say definitively about violence of any type in another country, aside from that I obviously disagree with it entirely. I would personally welcome refugees from a country whose culture oppresses even a tiny minority of it's citizens, though of course immigration policy isn't my decision to make alone. People of both genders in my country seem to have become somewhat opposed to nearly any form of immigration. I've heard politicians claim that our economy could begin to suff…
/r/MensRights03/01/12 10:41 PM
1

While I'm aware the list is in a way meant to be satirical, these numbers are things that can actually be solved by pursuing equal rights and equality in the justice system. I.e. the stuff really worth caring about. 1., 2., 3., 5., 6., 7., 9., 10., 11., 12., 15., 18., 22., 31., 32., 36., 40., It's possible I missed one or two. Anyway everything else is gender role or stigmatic rhetoric which, while offensive, can't really be dealt with directly without being an attempt at social control, and can…
/r/MensRights03/01/12 01:54 PM
13

I consistently overdo it with bacon. I have yet to suffer from this.
/r/MensRights03/01/12 03:13 AM
1

Ah. I didn't read back far enough. No, of course, everyone is free to express their sexuality. (That's slang for Business Time) Nobody should feel obliged to abstain, unless they're unwilling to practice safe sex. I honestly think the root of the problem is that people are both refusing to abstain and refusing to practice safe sex.
/r/MensRights02/01/12 04:43 AM
1

Whoa now, she should still be allowed to have intercourse though. Right to sexual freedom is different from a right to opt out of parenthood. I would say that when it comes to sex, a woman, just like a man, is 100% responsible to protect her own body. If the intent to prevent pregnancy, she just needs to ensure she's practicing birth control or he's got a jimmy hat. The man, if he has a brain, will help her in this and if those conditions can't be met, she's completely within her rights to refus…
/r/MensRights02/01/12 03:36 AM
1

And you know what, I should point out that my argument assumes abortion is legal. If it's legal, only the mother should have the decision. Sorry I missed that. As to whether abortion should be legal or not, I prefer to stay out of that argument entirely.
/r/MensRights02/01/12 03:23 AM
1

Agreed.
/r/MensRights02/01/12 03:15 AM
1

Listen, this whole discussion for me has been about defending the point that if one person is entitled to a right, everyone is. That's it. I think it's pretty basic, maybe even obvious. If you disagree, then so be it. If you feel that removal of said right for all people is the appropriate way to deal with a social issue, then all the power to you. Believe what you want and spread that belief where you will. I do not have to like it. I won't debate you on the question of whether or not abortion …
/r/MensRights02/01/12 02:52 AM
1

I never said men and women were equal in the biological, everyone has the same parts sense. I said they deserve equal rights. You want me to explain to you why any two individuals deserve the same rights as each other. That is insane. And listen, I don't think abortion is the greatest thing going either. Legal or Illegal, however, the woman has her rights and I want mine too. That you don't support a woman's right to her own body is not entirely surprising to me at this point. You're horrified t…
/r/MensRights02/01/12 01:25 AM
2

Sorry. You lost me at "no justification here for equality". That's obscene. You're right that we cannot control the choices women make, however we can demand they take responsibility for them. An accidental pregnancy from consensual sex isn't a choice either a man or woman makes, but it is the woman's responsibility to ensure the protection her own body from becoming pregnant, because it is her body and nobody else can be responsible for it. Accidents happen, yes, but if nobody is at fault, then…
/r/MensRights01/01/12 11:42 PM
1

No, actually it's quite the opposite. My obsession is with equality, and yours is with what you deem to be "fair". If anything, I have an entirely rational fear of one day getting roped into a situation I did not consent to.
/r/MensRights01/01/12 10:33 PM
2

First of all, your "worldview" is every bit as irrelevant as mine. It's your opinion, and you're entitled to it, but it is weightless. If one person has a right, everyone must have that right. That's not an opinion, that's equal rights. If you're going to tell me that we need to create two classes of citizenry based on gender, then you and I are done speaking. You're saying to me that I'm to live in a world where no matter how loudly I proclaim that I will not ever or for any reason consent to p…
/r/MensRights01/01/12 10:08 PM
2

Okay, since we're having the same argument in two places, I'll try to give you the short version this time. Asking someone to justify equal rights is insane. It really is. How can you not see how incredibly screwed up that is. You want to strip men of a right that women have, and call it a responsibility. Woman have the right to opt out of parenthood before a child is born. Men don't. A woman can therefore NOT be saddled with a baby that they adamantly do not want. Men can. That is the very, ver…
/r/MensRights01/01/12 06:14 PM
4

Right, well you just asked for justification for equal rights. I'll oblige, but remember. That just happened. You may not think so, but it really is significant that a mindset exists that believes any given woman is due a right that a man is not. At any rate, I'll say it again. During pregnancy A woman does not need to be responsible for a child she does not want. She may bear or not bear the fetus at her own discretion. A man has no option and no say. After Pregnancy Given that the man still do…
/r/MensRights01/01/12 05:37 PM
3

The rights of the child (and currently, the man) rest in the hands of the mother. She's not bound to raise that child at any stage of her pregnancy, and may hand it over to the state once it's born and relinquish all responsibility. In fact, if a man were awarded sole custody for a child he did not want, this is now the only time he is able to simply opt out of parenthood legally and without penalty, the same way a woman could do at any time. Of course, that couldn't really happen, as it's not t…
/r/MensRights01/01/12 05:07 PM
3

I advocate for men to have the right to opt out of parenthood. The exact same right that every woman has. A woman is in no way bound to the welfare of her child, and may choose to opt out of parenthood by terminating or having the child and simply "disowning" it, i.e. abandoning it or putting it up for adoption. Her reasons for doing any of these things are hers and hers alone, and nobody may impede her, especially not based on her motive. Currently, men are not given this decision at any stage …
/r/MensRights01/01/12 04:49 PM
1

Okay, well, first of all I totally get what you're saying. However, despite the dismal state of marriage today (and I agree it's pretty horrifying), 50/50 is still the objective answer that represents equality. The benefit for the wealthier of the two is the same as the benefit for the poorer - they're marrying someone they love, trust and can't wait to boink at least once a day for the rest of their lives. Thus the oath that all your possessions and property become shared, dual ownership, one-o…
/r/MensRights01/01/12 05:39 AM
1

Okay, so let me draw out your picture of "equality". Any woman in north america, when faced with a pregnancy and oncoming parenthood has a rather wide variety of options available to her that will allow her to opt out of parenthood. She may make these decisions freely, and the father has no say. This part, I agree, is completely equitable. No man has the right to tell a woman what she may do with her body, ever. It's Her body. It's Her decision. It's Her Responsibility. Oh wait, here's where you…
/r/MensRights01/01/12 05:15 AM
1

Fair? No, let's throw fairness out the window and focus on equality. "Fair" is kind of a childish, subjective term and it's what got us all into this mess. The reason I'd want a 50/50 prenup is because it's what we ought to have anyway. It's what equal, and it should be the default divorce term for all marriages. I wouldn't want to take more than my share from Mrs. Ploy any more than I'd want her to take it from me. I loved that woman, dammit. Sure, it didn't work out, but we have no right to pu…
/r/MensRights01/01/12 04:44 AM
2

What you're saying is totally fair, but I think the argument is just a little removed from your train of thought. I believe the "it's my body" argument is based on the assumption that abortion is already legal, and the statement is that the father can not tell her to abort.. or tell her not to abort. In that light, the argument is actually entirely valid. It's relation to circumcision is that (for some insane reason) male circumcision is not only still legal, but it can be performed on infant ma…
/r/MensRights01/01/12 04:14 AM
3

I had a conversation about it with my family a while back. My parents stated rather plainly that they're not sure why they thought is was important and that they wouldn't have had it done to me if they'd had the chance to do it all again. I'm ok with that answer. I imagine, when a baby's born and a doctor, a person you're expected to trust, shows up and feeds you a line about safeguarding your son's health, you'd let him chop and cut whatever the hell he wanted to. It's almost hard to even think…
/r/MensRights01/01/12 04:02 AM
1

All that is well and good so long as we remember that this doesn't, even in the slightest, diminish men as individuals. In fact, if there's a truly antiquated theory that we still find ourselves clinging to, it's that any single human is more or less expendable than any other. Not one of our lives is worth one-red-cent more or less than any other. That is a core principle of equality. Feminists want to cherry pick through history, keeping the double-standards that suit them, while abandoning any…
/r/MensRights01/01/12 03:48 AM
1

I'll tell you one thing though, if it were well and truly codified into law that the act of having sex with a woman counted as consenting to any and all fiscal and personal responsibility associated with accidental pregnancy, we'd start seeing prenups for girlfriends. It MUST be a sign that there's serious inequity in the law when men need to find women willing to sign legal documents just so they can safeguard their own right to liberty and equality.
/r/MensRights01/01/12 03:30 AM
0

Nah, dude. When a man consents to have sex with a woman, he's consenting to have sex. That's it. The only responsibility that the man and woman share is to agree to use birth control, or not. After that, the ball is in the woman's court for the rest of the game. And it's not nearly the horrific, oppressive burden it may seem to be. In terms of consensual sex, it's the woman's body that can become pregnant, either accidentally or on purpose, and thus it is her responsibility to protect her own bo…
/r/MensRights01/01/12 03:23 AM
1

I base the entire argument on a simple principle that I think covers abortion as well as all forms of circumcision. It's my body, nothing happens to it without my consent. (And for pete's sake do not cut me.) I see people get lost in discussions of severity and age and guardianship and so on, but the principle stands throughout the lot of it. I could understand doing surgery on an infant whose life is in danger. Obviously a baby is unable to understand the situation, let alone consent. But perfo…
/r/MensRights01/01/12 02:58 AM
3

I've heard about Nevada's brothels. Clean, safe, secure, catering to all genders and sexualities. I simply cannot understand how antiquated puritanism still has so much of an affect on law in the West. Forget "two consenting adults", forget outrageously dangerous work environments, forget violent pimps, forget coercion and forced drug addiction. These are all non-issues in the face of the oogly-boogly horror that would engulf our great nation if we dared to legitimize the oldest profession in hi…
/r/MensRights01/01/12 02:41 AM
1

Oh, I'd also like to point out that for me, a pre-nup means: In case of fire, break everything in half and run in opposite directions. If I make a vow of commitment to someone and then decide that it's no longer valid, there's no reason we can't split everything 50/50 and move on. That includes custody, although I can't imagine the screwy bizarro-land future where I actually have children, since I despise them don't feel that fatherhood is for me.
/r/MensRights01/01/12 01:35 AM
2

A shame though, don't you think, that the best way to keep everyone "happy" means having to employ deceit? I'd go with a prenup too, but I'd place the insult squarely where it belongs: Society. Because the truth is that even an honest individual, in the midst of an already emotional divorce, can be further coerced by a lawyer. If you've got a professional from the "divorce industry" telling you they know exactly which strings to pull to get you more money, more property, more custody, all the wh…
/r/MensRights31/12/11 11:54 PM
1

Aw, come on. Despite the numbers, the possibility can never be discounted that any two people could honestly just fall in love with each other and be happy together. Granted, it'll never happen to a hardline feminist: "I just love my pet husband, and he'll love me back if he knows what's good for him!" Only to wind up on her deathbed at 80, surrounded by her knock knee'd, useless children, bitter as fuck and unable to remember exactly why she's been angry her whole life.
/r/MensRights31/12/11 11:38 PM
2

I'd marry a woman with a prenup. But even then, Mrs. Right has no interest in taking care of me, and even less interest in being taken care of. I don't see why two competent, independent individuals can't run a marriage like a business +love. Why would anyone want to get married based on terms of what they can get out of it? I don't think I could respect a woman who would marry just to be taken care of, let alone marry her myself. (And I could say the same thing for men) And hey, if it never hap…
/r/MensRights31/12/11 11:20 PM
1

I take the threat of overpopulation very, very seriously. I feel that it's the exponential factor that will, in fact, cause many of society's most feared "collapses" to occur at nearly the same time. I have kind of a hard time equating abortion law or any variety of feminism as a method of controlling population growth, though. Mostly because if it were true, I'd say it's been a at least a bit inefficient. An abortion ban could definitely be said to bolster the population of any given country, t…
/r/MensRights31/12/11 09:49 PM
3

A woman's right to have an abortion is specifically a women's issue. By that, I mean whether a bylaw will ever exist to universally allow/deny abortions at any given stage of pregnancy. I would assume men all over the world have varying opinions on whether abortion is moral or immoral, but these concerns have no affect on the MRM. Whatever the state of any given abortion laws, the fact will never change that I have absolutely no say in what a woman does with her body. So whether her options are …
/r/MensRights31/12/11 09:16 PM
5

I'm also in complete agreement with Girlwriteswhat. It's the woman's body that becomes pregnant and what she does with her body is her decision and hers alone. I don't believe that men have any right to decide whether or not a woman will abort, abandon, or keep and raise a child. He obviously can speak his mind, but it carries no legal weight, beyond what the woman is willing to agree to. But along with the sole power to make that decision, comes the sole responsibility. Binding a man to a perso…
/r/MensRights31/12/11 07:50 PM
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