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DauphineOfViennois Archive

View 0 posts and 69 comments by DauphineOfViennois on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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2

Who said anything about changing a man? Not every woman is free to leave. It's not just a psychological barrier. And even the psychological barrier isn't of their own making in the culture we live in and the way so many people have been raised. But a lot of women have real logistical difficulties. And when you combine the idea that leaving is the only option, and all this "examine your role in the dynamic" bullshit you are actually pushing women back. Telling them if they can't leave right now, …
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy24/03/20 09:14 PM
1

Yeah, I mean we have ALL had desperate, clingy, cringey, tryhard, fawning dysfunctional people in our life at one time or other. They're out there and it's just a universal human phenomenon across all kinds of relationships, not just romantic. But how come all of us here, and most of humanity, manage to deal with those people without verbally running them down, slapping them around, etc? Because bad people seek them out as targets they can get away with. The dysfunctional cringey ppl of the worl…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy24/03/20 08:23 PM
18

The problem with that idea is that many women think abortion is fine in theory until it's actually them. It makes no sense to be all braced and stoic with a "decision" about the potential offspring of some loser you can't even trust to have that conversation with. This goes against everything society tells us, but it's just not wise to PIV with anyone who's baby you wouldn't be happy to have. Or to blithely tell yourself "oh I would just get an abortion" when you've never faced that situation. L…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy24/03/20 05:06 PM
20

Yes there have always been a few sickos like that (sexual murder) but they have been encouraged by extreme porn and the amount of that porn is increasing and pulling in PAs who go to further and further extremes for their fix. Unless God intervenes, five years from now you're gonna see girls on Insta getting stabbed in the gut with loads of people saying "ohhh that looks like the first stage of abuse, red flag if she didn't consent! he's not doing it right, everyone knows you have to do XYZ that…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy22/03/20 06:35 PM
31

The really infuriating thing about all the comments on there is all the "this is a red flag.... what if she's 'really' being abused.... this looks like the 'start' of an abuse situation" OR critiquing his fucking TECHNIQUE or the precise position of his freakin HAND because men choking women is just a thing now and there's a right and wrong way to do it FML. The normalization of "kink" has created a social situation where we can see unambiguous physical violence and still we find ambiguity in it…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy22/03/20 06:29 PM
20

He has no intentions of marriage and no romantic feelings for her. He's using her for sex and for the sick pleasures of emotionally abusing her. He's just using those topics to make her feel bad, lower her self-esteem and keep her sexually available because she won't look for a real relationship. She sounds young.... she "confided" her weight history over the past year which implies she hasn't known him that long.... she doesn't sound like she has the life experience to realize that this kind of…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy21/03/20 07:12 PM
23

Women vary in how much importance they put on physique but I can't imagine being so completely hung up on the human being as physical specimen. But then, your post history reads like fantasy.... engaged to a sex god at the age of 14 etc..... if your situation is really so perfect it's hard to understand your interest in this sub. Maybe you're whistling in the dark.
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy21/03/20 04:21 PM
6

Quite to the contrary, sometimes you just want to make a little small talk about a situation in your life without getting hit with somebody else's agenda of highly specific solutions that you then have to give a detailed justification for not taking up. A person who won't take the hint to redirect the conversation away from everything they think I should be doing is showing poor boundaries and poor social skills. That thing where every detail you happen to reveal in declining the advice becomes …
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy20/03/20 12:52 PM
20

The hitter is usually the worse verbal abuser, as well. It's common to get sucked down to their level in the struggle to defend yourself verbally. Then when you finally get in a good one, that's when he escalates to hitting. You actually can't trust a woman's perception of her role in this dynamic because unlike the person who set out to deliberately tear her apart, she has a tender conscience about speaking harshly to someone. And as a woman, if you find yourself in this situation you should de…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy18/03/20 07:30 PM
14

This is a widespread phenomenon and not just among Reddit incels. It can be incredibly hard for victims to reach out because out of shame etc., they downplay the abuse, but many people assume she's actually exaggerating. If there's a mismatch between how upset she seems and what's she's stating, instead of realizing she's not saying everything, people are content to believe she's being "dramatic" which conveniently enables them to stick their heads in the sand.
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy18/03/20 07:21 PM
17

I don't know, how is that worse than having back to back relationships as the "breadwinner" for men? It's pathetic that she has to frame wanting a bit of domesticity and time for hobbies as service to him personally, but it works out the same either way. I am pretty domestic and I sympathize with her experience of wanting that life, repressing the desire because they just want her for a paycheck, being "good" and grinding away, and finally trying to position herself to cash in a little bit and m…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy15/03/20 07:53 PM
10

"of course I don't actually think he's a pervert!" 🤡
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy15/03/20 07:30 PM
16

You have to vet Christian men extra hard for any signs of patriarchalism. Vet both his family and his church with a merciless filter for attitudes toward women and marriage. It doesn't mean you can't be in a conservative church with male clergy - I am - in most cases it's more a lived experience thing than what's on paper. In the meanwhile, don't let his church get in your head - don't let them "disciple" you, not even (perhaps especially not) women. Get your spiritual needs met elsewhere until …
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy15/03/20 06:49 PM
10

No, please don't imagine that they're really confused. He's working a double strategy: requiring a woman to depend on him, while running her down for not making a financial contribution. She's deliberately kept in a double bind. And the other aspect of it involves running her down to other people. This is to isolate her. He knows what he's doing. (Also it doesn't sound like this specifically applies to the situation in the OP, but often these men will deceive third parties as to whose idea it wa…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy12/03/20 01:54 AM
3

Mixed dorms are a stupid idea - what would ever possess someone in the first place? I would rather snooze sitting up in a train station or drink coffee somewhere all night. Freaking ride public transport in circles or pace the sidewalk in front of the police station all night. Sleep in a group of random strange men from all over the world? Why are we so clueless???
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy11/03/20 07:37 PM
6

Also, libfem has no sympathy for people who don't feel comfortable having an abortion, so anyone who actually births a child has no one to blame but herself
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy11/03/20 07:30 PM
32

I live right by a large university and whenever I go to the laundromat I always see at least one undergrad girl doing laundry with a dude. I'm watching a couple of 'em right now. He's participating, it's not full subservience or anything, but she's clearly taking the lead. WHY, girls?
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy06/03/20 11:53 PM
4

Yeah. And beware this isn't always gendered. Some guys have this attitude about people in general, not just women, and it's just as toxic. Some people really are really smart. They don't tend to go around talking about it. Making being smarter than other people a major theme of their self-concept is a very reliable tell for narcissism. Also reallty check attitude/seeming smart in conversation against results. Don't be too wowed by activities that are culturally coded as high-intelligence because…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy06/03/20 01:14 PM
8

A quick search informed me that marriage rates are very similar in Spain and the U.S. (my country). Idefk where one's level of cultural literacy would have to be to think that Spain, which was still a literal Catholic fascist dictatorship within my lifetime, is some kind of cutting edge ultra modern culture where people ~just don't believe in marriage~. It's common enough for Western Europeans to act like they're infinitely more progressive than the US, but from Spain of all places that's a bit …
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy06/03/20 01:07 AM
5

Wow, there's some weird comments on this. I mean, obviously you can't be in a relationship for the rest of your life and literally never have sex so I don't suppose that's what you're talking about. I'm religious so sex before marriage just isn't happening... yes I've been dumped for it but even aside from beliefs would you really want to give it up, with all the risks that entails, for someone because they're holding the relationship over your head if you don't? That seems coercive. Though I do…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy05/03/20 09:41 PM
12

Why would you help him with his project? Also it was a mistake to invoke your parents. Any time you give a reason for refusal, you invite a negotiation. And parents is an especially bad one because you are getting to the age where it starts to lose all its effectiveness. It makes you appear weak, as though you don't wish to say yes or no on your own. Besides, it's far from exclusive to traditional culture to be wary of going to a guy's house early on. Even if his mom will be there - actually, if…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy05/03/20 05:18 PM
15

This is why you don't tolerate porn use - at all - and why you don't sleep with (or even get alone with) anyone until you know them intimately well on all levels, including their family, social relationships, true unguarded attitudes on a range of issues, etc
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy05/03/20 11:35 AM
9

By making it safe for her to tell you what's really going on. Don't pull the "I would never put up with that!" judgment and related ideas. Don't have expectations for what she should do. Just getting real is a very big first step. A lot of people, when someone shares abuse and they don't leave, eventually they start thinking "well then, she wasn't serious, if it was all that she would have left", isolating the woman further. Many times a woman will face a vicious cycle of being too ashamed to st…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy05/03/20 03:32 AM
43

Nope, she's trauma bonded. Very little hope. Random, forced-happy big upping traditionalism out of nowhere when noone asked should be taught as a warning sign when you see a friend doing it cause it's basically a cry for help
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy04/03/20 10:15 PM
7

Holy Just World Fallacy, Batman! (hmmm, aren't you the same person who was telling me no therapist would ever be problematic toward an abuse victim the other day?)
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy03/03/20 03:46 AM
8

She was freed after serving 15 years of the original life sentence.
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy03/03/20 03:45 AM
7

If you'd known who Cyntoia Brown is, you'd have known that it's not a clickbait absurdity that a girl in this situation could face life in prison.
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy03/03/20 03:05 AM
2

People latch onto some poor phraseology or what they project someone's attitude as being, and then it's a dogpile. We've all done it. All I was trying to say is that if he's got her going the full Bill Nye on the why's how's and wherefore's of what happens when he gets blackout drunk! he's already a lost cause.
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy03/03/20 02:49 AM
12

Cyntoia Brown got sentenced to life. Nobody's trying to prove anything. The facts seem to be pretty much undisputed. It's a moral issue over whether black girls who get trafficked have the right of self-defense. The world does not work the way you seem to think it does in this area, at all. Pretty silly to try to claim that actual reality can't be real because you deduced in your head that..... the system wouldn't possibly be unfair to oppressed women?! Surely, if they knew....! sigh Incidentall…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy03/03/20 02:45 AM
10

Seriously? You haven't heard of Cyntoia Brown?
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy03/03/20 12:58 AM
7

Go read it. I think it's a pretty strange definition of "controlling" if it would be controlling to tell a woman, hey, actually, you don't have to expand your repertoire; he can learn to be content with what you're comfortable doing. If you regard it as oppressive or offensive if men are getting anything less than the maximum possible amount of sloppy forceful blowjobs as long as they're not literally raping people I'm not sure what you're doing on this sub. GGG is designed to shame people with …
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy02/03/20 09:25 PM
5

"Consent" as it's been promoted for most of the past ten or twenty years is kind of the camel's nose under the tent. A lot of the discourse comes with the unspoken message that you WILL consent. Even in the form of the word - supposedly the discourse is about the noun "consent" but in the cacophony "consent! consent! consent!" people are also naturally hearing the command to consent. Especially with "sex positivity" and the influence of a guru whose signature tag line is basically a scolding for…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy02/03/20 08:45 PM
0

I don't see how you're getting that from my comments. Maybe I didn't express myself well. My point is, that level of drinking should be a deal breaker aside from what else happens. That he's got her on a debate about what's "possible" - it's absurd. I don't see how this is any more woman blaming than any time we say a woman needs to be rid of men who behave foolishly. I expressed myself wrong or you read me wrong.
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy02/03/20 08:18 PM
7

Yeah, I'm not hanging out over here with exact receipts on the time Dan Savage said being woken up by your partner penetrating you is totes cool or the hundred different women he's laid a head trip on for not going along with their male partners' sick fetishes, or or or.... it's very old news for me, I was frankly surprised to see the ol' GGG shibboleth on here of all places. Like, sorry I can't prove with total precision why I don't obey some gay dude's standards for whether I'm sufficiently "g…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy02/03/20 08:07 PM
-3

🙄 YMMV but that's not what a night out meant at my uni. No, it's not normal. Kids actually die that way. Obviously she should dump him but she also needs to level up socially. She's letting him set the terms of the question in order to dodge the bigger picture. "Is it eVeN pOsSiBL3?" I don't see how it's pickme to understand that you're not going to find a quality partner in that kind of social environment. Actually it seems very pickme to take people being wasters as a given and attempt to nego…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy02/03/20 07:50 PM
8

There's no "drama" or something specific that happened - it's an assessment of the general quality of his advice, which gives lip service to consent while making people who won't do everything out to be selfish, inadequate prudes. Idek how long you have to be on this sub to understand that that kind of idea is going to have much heavier consequences for women and for men. As a gay man he has no clue about that assymetrical power in straight relationships. But his performative disgust toward wome…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy02/03/20 07:42 PM
11

GGG is some pickme shit and Dan Savage has a long history of gaslighting and shaming women out of their sexual boundaries. If you like a certain sex act say you like that act, not that you've got some virtue of being down for everything like a cool girl.
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy02/03/20 06:47 PM
-10

I do think it's possible. The real question is why is she dating someone that gets that drunk. "A uni night out" like oh that's just normal then? What kind of relationship does she even think she's going to have in a social circle where that's the done thing?
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy02/03/20 06:42 PM
3

I think you have it the wrong way around. Move on from the sloppy guys, don't lower your standards to match theirs!
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy02/03/20 05:18 PM
7

Ehhh, I find condoms physically irritating. And disgusting. Why not raise the standard for having sex at all that high? IOW marriage in most cases.
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy02/03/20 05:14 PM
6

You really shouldn't have sex with someone you don't trust with the fact that it's your first time. You also really shouldn't be having conversations about sex or fielding comments about your experience level from guys. Anyone who does that needs to go and the fact that this is happening means your boundaries are still way, way too low. So I don't think you're really all the way there on the concept of "a HVM who has proved himself" if you foresee yourself having sex with a guy who will mess you…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy02/03/20 06:51 AM
4

In my opinion the prospects for returning to the workforce have gotten worse. If I compare to when my mom did it in the 80s. Women were in the workforce but being a stay at home mom was something people understood so the transition was not that difficult compared to what I have gone through in recent years, despite more education and less time out of the work force than my mom had. Employers regard stay at home moms as shirkers or something. As far as an employer these days are concerned you may…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy02/03/20 04:17 AM
3

I feel like one of the major themes of this sub, though, is that it's a matter of degree. That the guy who starts out merely expecting that you tolerate loser behavior, verbal disrespect, etc., could end up as something much worse. You are trained to see people in hard and fast categories - like "narc" - and retrospectively, after everything happens and they or their victims present to the system in which you work. But it's really not so obvious that that's the way it works in real life, looking…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy26/02/20 02:35 AM
2

Sorry, this is just one of those situations where a person who represents a certain role or point of view in society swears up and down that they're nothing like all the ones I've met in real life. My honest, consistently repeated lived experience of psychologists, therapists etc. is that they function to reinforce the perspective of abusers. I mean, maybe you're different, maybe you're in a regional or subcultural context where it really is different. I mean, you're probably not literally the f…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy26/02/20 01:46 AM
0

Eh, I think it's pretty mean - and certainly "damaging" - to spread the message that victims' perceptions that they're trapped and can never escape are 100% reliable because to face potentially unflattering truths about one's own motivations is to step outside the protective myth of the perfect abuse victim who couldn't possibly have done anything differently. I mean, really think about the logical consequences of the idea that you only get to count yourself innocent and undeserving of abuse if …
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy26/02/20 12:58 AM
52

Because on an individual level, negotiating with them as to the quality of their behavior is a fool's game. Only the collective discipline of not being chosen has any hope of waking them up.
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy25/02/20 08:42 PM
-4

What article? It's a fiction story. And where did I say I have a degree? Degrees aren't the only form of knowledge. You're emoting a lot. I'm not damaging you by having a different opinion. Even if I'm wrong I don't think this sub really functions like an sjw space where you can start literally shaking & melodramatically wave your victimhood around & poof you win over the terrible, problematic, "damaging" person. Has it occurred to you that you're not the only person who has been through some st…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy25/02/20 08:34 PM
3

"Narcissism" may not be the best word for it but OP is really onto something with the idea that there can be a twisted overcompensating thing about one's own value that plays into taking shit from a guy. And I think some of us are attracted to "real" narcissists because they superficially appear to have solved the problem of self-value and think he can share it with us. In this connection it should also be mentioned how narcissists often lure women with "us vs. the world" dynamics to make you fe…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy25/02/20 06:11 PM
4

Ouch! 😬
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy25/02/20 05:46 PM
1

Oh that's sad. A lot of academic women have very little social confidence. Or they see the problems with many guys in that world and run too far in the other direction. Idk your friend's situation but I have seen naive high academic achieving types get really messed up because they thought getting with a dumb hunk or rough-living type would be edgy or bohemian or something.
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy25/02/20 03:07 AM
0

The atheists I've known have been very full of themselves. Think they're smarter than everyone and build their lives and identities around that narrative. And by that I mean men and women, romantic interests or otherwise. Agnosticism or not being sure about how some religions define God is one thing but a stance of militant confidence that there is definitely nothing higher than oneself is often psychologically motivated by prideful abhorrence of moral accountability or restraints on behavior.
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy25/02/20 02:15 AM
20

Potheads. Humanities grad students, especially philosophy. Stay away from philosophy guys. Atheists.
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy24/02/20 08:50 PM
2

Hmmm. Does he also have an academic background? Sometimes losers of the brutal academic job lottery bottom out hard, especially in the immediate aftermath of disappointment. I know people have to be careful about marriage but my social circle is a mix of career outcomes and income levels that people in other fields would consider bizarre, due to this factor. One of my friends is a professor married to a bus driver - who is very HV and is very much on her and the rest of our group's level intelle…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy24/02/20 07:24 PM
3

I see what you mean but I guess there's a degree of conflict between personal goals vs. spreading the word. And the question of audience is just a real big deal to me too. A lot of comments on this sub about not clueing them in on how to play the part, which I think is right. And if you ever know somebody in a seriously harmful situation, it can be very counterproductive or even dangerous for her if he knows her support network is onto him. Bad guys are best lulled into complacency and then blin…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy24/02/20 07:06 PM
3

Thanks for this. While the whole phenomenon of radically different standards for men and women is misogynistic bullshit, there is such a thing as knowing what league you're in. Having seen a few pictures of women on here and a fair bit of discourse around super high standards for looks (and also income) kind of gives the impression that this is about very attractive women getting very attractive men.
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy24/02/20 05:20 PM
26

This x10,000. Quality, status, value - whatever you want to call it, "show don't tell" is the name of the game. In general, for an unattached person to vent publicly about their standards comes off weak, ranging from insecure to desperate. More specifically, talking about dating/social life stuff on FB really clashes with the notion of being a highly educated person. Looking at my FB friends I see pretty much a perfect inverse relationship between education/career attainment and letting personal…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy24/02/20 04:58 PM
13

I would be careful about negging friends' boyfriends. You may be setting her up for emotional abuse or actually build her loyalty to him through a defensive reaction that turns into an us vs. the world dynamic. Also - similar to the question of what the OP is even doing with this topic on FB - I don't think it's a strong move to vent your thoughts on this subject in mixed company, talking about your own love life with some guy you barely know who happens to be dating your friend. Having standard…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy24/02/20 04:42 PM
6

Just be careful of treating degrees as a guarantee of quality. Men have pretty good earning power even without advanced degrees and I wouldn't necessarily be interested in a man who's hiding out racking up credentials rather than getting out there and taking care of business. The kind of degrees that do add economic value (e.g. engineering, finance) don't usually improve people in terms of culture/worldview/ conversational ability etc. - and OTOH, based on my own experience in the academic world…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy24/02/20 04:29 PM
8

"gets kinky with their HVM" sounds like a contradiction in terms
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy23/02/20 10:46 AM
7

It really depends what you mean by "ugly." I don't find the perfect pretty boy look to be very masculine. I prefer a but rugged and conventionally "hot" guys are out of my league anyway so I find their attention, the few times I've had it, troubling. Like manipulative or something. Exact face shape is a distant third to personality and body type. The guy with the right body type will take care of himself. But the idea of filtering people because of the nose, jawline etc doesn't resonate with me.…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy23/02/20 10:41 AM
32

They think it's independence. Liberal feminism has never gotten past the fantasy of magically emulating male life patterns as the way to liberation. All the stuff people rightly put on this sub about "what about when you have children" is totally alien to them. If they heard you they would just think that proves that letting a man pay leads to traditionalist subjugation. They think they can overcome the natural pitfalls of male/female by sheer willpower. They think mothers are chumps. Young libf…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy23/02/20 12:58 AM
3

Well I guess the standard feminist response to that is that having to do something is not a position of power, even if you have more power doing it than if you rebelled. But I guess it depends on the individual. I don't have a conventionally pretty face, I mean I'm not ugly by any means but I don't have a face in the very narrow range of what objectifying men deem "attractive." I'm also much taller, large-framed, and robust than an "attractive" woman is supposed to be, even at a healthy weight. …
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy23/02/20 12:29 AM
4

Right.... because - without judging anyone with respect to their face or body type - grooming and molding yourself to their specifications is pickme behavior. Including collective cultural specifications. From what I've seen so far I sense that this is the bridge too far for many on this sub. All this stuff about making men pay, approach you respectfully, etc and there's nothing wrong with that - but not let them dictate how you dress and maintain your own body?! Unthinkable!
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy22/02/20 02:25 PM
10

I dunno..... why do I keep seeing news stories of horrific murder of women by their partners and it's always a slender, beautiful woman?
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy22/02/20 01:40 AM
4

Well no one is ever perfect so logically doesn't that just mean monogamy is permanently cancelled? This gaslighting only works when women are isolated and think their situation is unique.
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy21/02/20 04:57 AM
7

Honestly the best thing you can do for yourself, that doesn't lock you into a decision one way or other about the relationship, is to get out of working from home. I thought that even before you started talking about "nervous" and "neurotic" - and then you said that. We are social animals and I have seen being home all the time mess so many people up, whether SAHMs or work from home people. In fact the latter often get it worse because most SAHMs realize on some level they are missing out, but w…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy21/02/20 12:58 AM
7

You should really think twice. Looking at your post history - he's 40, ten years older than you, and obsessed with comics collectibles? He manipulated you about moving into an unacceptable quality apartment in order to save money, but the money saved will go to these collectibles, not to saving for a house, which you have already saved about $50,000 for but he has nothing in savings despite being ten years older with a similar income? He says you treat him badly and says that for wanting to live…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy20/02/20 11:11 PM
2

You're probably misunderstanding based on assuming "liberal" is as far left as it gets and the only possible opposition to it is conservative.
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy20/02/20 09:03 PM
11

Lurker here. Speaking up to say it's incredible to find a thread on here boundary-shaming women for not wanting painful sores on their vulva. It doesn't magically jump from mouth to genitals on the same individual so all this stuff about "you better not kiss anyone" is a totally fallacious response to people's concerns about what ends up on their genitals. Oral can be transmitted to genital but the huge gap in the statistics tells the story about how often that actually happens; of course no-one…
/r/FemaleDatingStrategy13/02/20 05:41 PM
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