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Eblademonk Archive

View 0 posts and 470 comments by Eblademonk on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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–

How did you go from "these political views don't develop in a vaccum," to "they're directly downwind of low empathy and high narcissism," like those are somehow traits that develop in a vacuum? You're being pretty picky with when you decide to care about cause and effect there, boss.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/26 10:53 AM
–

What exactly is a privilege in this context?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/26 04:28 PM
–

The Tate brothers weren't famous for their sense of entitlement. They were famous for being international criminals with an empire built on sexual exploitation. Their internal value system is inconsequential to the very tangible harm they were complicit in.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/26 04:16 PM
2

Are you expecting me to litigate every point on the possible intervention chain from changing someone's personal habits to becoming bubba's prison bottom, or is it reasonable for me to cut to the end of the line to illustrate the absurdity of a point?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/26 07:11 AM
0

A person who performs friendship sufficiently.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/26 06:21 AM
0

That was my rebuttal to the claim that "an incel isn't an incel until they've exhausted all possible options to not be an incel." Are you utterly incapable of engaging honestly with a point?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/26 04:12 AM
3

You have fundamentally misunderstood every argument I've ever made to justify your own claims. At some point I can't be blamed for your projections.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/26 04:09 AM
4

This is an appeal to purity. A particularly ableist example considering how easily psychopathy is invoked, but an appeal to purity nonetheless.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/26 03:59 AM
2

Trust doesn't confirm the definition though, not anymore than faith confirms the existence of God. At best it ameliorates the fear that you're pouring more into the relationship than your "friends."
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/26 03:52 AM
2

Trust is not included in this definition.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/26 03:40 AM
7

If you're assuming I said CSA was "the better solution," as opposed to "the logical endpoint of your claim," then you really aren't engaging with the implications of your argument.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/26 03:08 AM
7

You're confusing consideration for illustration. "You're not a true incel unless you Have Tried Everything To Not Be Celibate" is the exact same logic as "you're not truly desperate until you've decided to change yourself to attract others." That's the argument you're making Lilith, not the opinion I support.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/26 03:03 AM
0

They are by definition settling for anything short of everything they want.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/26 01:52 AM
6

In case it wasn't clear enough. "If someone was really X, they'd Y," is the core of this thread's dispute. The argument of "if a man were truly desperate, he wouldn't be picky" is a textbook appeal to purity, completely ignoring the full complexity of the human experience in order to simplify an equation that doesn't conform to the above logic. A truly hungry man would not necessarily autocannibalize to satisfy themselves. A truly sad man will not always take the express route to the lobby. "Tru…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/26 01:50 AM
2

You have no working definition of accountability or entitlement. You're choosing to winge about this point because it allows you to validate your own presuppositions on how men act when forced to navigate discomfort, and I'm not interested in being your therapist while you solve that problem. Do you understand the argument I'm making, or are the words too jarring for you to process effectively?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/26 01:45 AM
3

Hell, I don't even buy the argument that women pick what they actually desire. Most people don't have the luxury of finding their ideal partner even if they spend a lifetime looking. Most people have a rough outline, and fill out the details depending on what they can make work with someone else.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/26 01:35 AM
1

Sure, we'd prove that barring any other variable, a guy would choose a hot chick over a regular lady. Unfortunately, dating isn't a matter of barring any other variable.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/26 01:27 AM
2

That requires an awful lot of trust, and still ultimately confirms nothing. Deception of word and deed are amongst the most prosocial tools a human has at their disposal.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/26 01:25 AM
2

This is what we like to call an Ad Hominem fallacy. "This is the type of guy who's personally revolting to me, so his arguments don't have any weight."
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/26 12:54 AM
2

I agree. The issue I'm raising is very specific here- the idea that there is a specific caliber of "not trying hard enough" that divides incels from volcels is a bad argument, because it places a burden of proof on incels to "prove" their failure by any means necessary. "Have you tried being a better person," "have you tried being a worse person," "have you considered genuinely changing yourself from first principles into someone fundamentally different?"- "you're volcel because you're not tryin…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/26 12:52 AM
4

Exactly my point. It's a bullshit argument for bullshitters.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/26 12:40 AM
1

And in your opinion, failing to do everything shy of targeting people who cannot consent should mean someone isn't an incel?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/26 12:39 AM
1

What is everything possible short of morally depraved means?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/26 12:34 AM
2

People can change, but an important, I'd argue the most important step in that process is believing change is possible. For obvious reasons, you've got a bit of a leg up in holding such a belief.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/26 12:16 AM
7

Please do. I'm of the opinion that an incel remains an incel even if they don't throw themselves desperately at everyone who considers them worth use as a masturbatory aid. You're free to quote me on that. You're the one who thinks it's voluntary unless you're driven by the right kind of desperation to abandon any standard for restraint or decency or integrity. It's really strange how abandoning those values can be seen as taking accountability in your eyes, but I'll let you flesh out another ar…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/26 12:10 AM
6

You're the one who chose to raise the argument about how much of incelibacy is personally imposed. I'm playing the game by your rules, Lilly.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/26 12:05 AM
–

An incel could theoretically stop being an incel if they start preying on children. For obvious reasons, the "you're not an incel unless you've tried everything possible to fuck," argument falls apart when you engage with what possible alternatives are nonviable.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/26 12:00 AM
2

No. I think you're convinced that basic empathy can survive a conditioning machine comparable to the U.S. Military by virtue of empathy being some irrepressible human quality. It's still a wild belief to possess, but it's more reasonable than expecting kids to enjoy being groomed into patriarchy.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 11:47 PM
3

It's possible to both make an opportunity and whine about failure.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 11:34 PM
2

How does anyone confirm the second half of that definition?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 11:12 PM
2

Does basic empathy often survive middle school for the guys told crying is pussy shit?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 11:10 PM
5

It's the same underlying logic that paints incels as volcels unless they have settled for even the most unsatisfying sexual encounters to ascend. Or the idea that you're choosing your fate unless you've done everything short of crime to get laid.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 11:05 PM
6

Hell yeah! I love a discussion on the burden of proof in debate spaces. This is my favorite thread so far.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 10:45 PM
1

Sure. I'd call that being a friend.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 09:05 PM
8

Might reduce the amount of summary executions they commit in the line of duty
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 03:49 PM
2

I mean to say, is people collectively deciding that children aren't a gift worth producing an inherent part of a postgender society? Will people stop desiring kids if they're no longer expected to make them because of wierd ideals of womanly duty?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 03:27 PM
0

What was OP's actual goal?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 03:25 PM
1

Then why would that standard change when nobody's expected to get pregnant for the continuation of humanity?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 02:54 PM
1

There's a difference between "perfectly natural," and "not unreasonable," in my opinion. But again not all friendships turn sexual just like not all relationships lead to marriage. The expectations are seldom obligations in that sense, and it's the responsibility of the expecting to seek clarification since they're the one imposing a standard on the dynamic.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 02:53 PM
2

I guess I'm just trying to understand the problem. Do women now only want children because it's their womanly duty or something?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 02:48 PM
0

I didn't say it was an unreasonable assumption. I said that it's unreasonable to maintain that presumption without at least a cursory effort at clarification. It's at least as arbitrary a distinction as presuming any social dynamic between a man and woman should lead to sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 02:47 PM
0

Should women presume any man who she cooks for is going to propose?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 02:38 PM
2

I would be strongly inclined to argue that married sex which leads to unwanted kids is significantly worse than casual sex that doesn't. The physical and mental health of a child is often related to how invested the child's caretakers are in raising them, and resentment is something which can stain that kid for their whole life. Even before we get to the conversation on STIs, which are mitigated substantially by just taking safe care of oneself and regular testing, kids themselves aren't part of…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 02:36 PM
2

Many women don't want to go through that now.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 02:29 PM
1

Have you heard of folkways, mores, or taboos? Maybe you've heard of laws? Social and legal restrictions on behavior do exist, and consequences for violating them range from being stigmatized as the wierd kid to being incarcerated for exploring too much freedom at the expense of others. That's just the consequence of existing in a social context.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 02:24 PM
2

Humans aren't even fully sexually bimodal. Dimorphism is middle-school-level understanding of how sex develops in human beings.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 02:21 PM
1

Why should he be obligated to be fair to others if fairness isn't afforded to him in turn?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 02:11 PM
2

Like he said elsewhere, it's pretty debatable how solid those old standards hold up today. The opinions of most people still aren't necessarily factual statements of seriousness.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 02:07 PM
2

Why are we conflating single-parent households with casual sex? For that matter, why are we operating under the assumption that marriage immediately means children? These are different claims entirely than marriage vs casual sex, because children are not a consequence of all sexual encounters.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 02:05 PM
–

Supply and demand boss. We've reached a point culturally where the demand of sex, or any intimacy really, from enthusiastic available women has been absolutely eclipsing the supply of women willing to put up with men's collective bullshit, which means that any individual man is going to need to try significantly harder than any of his predecessors to find comparable success in intimate or romantic relations. Guys can adapt to this, sure, but there's vanishingly few adaptations that will satisfy …
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 07:07 AM
1

According to who? I don't recall their being an academic study on the difference in community outcomes between marriage and other intimate relationships.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 05:42 AM
3

I think there's something funny about the arbitrary line between "doing some nice things," and "doing some commitment level things." Why should a guy give someone commitment just because someone puts a bit of domestic labor in the vending machine? Are they entitled to that outcome for some reason?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 05:41 AM
–

Really living up to the name there, Acrobat. Why is it his obligation to clear up a misconception he wasn't even sure she had?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 05:36 AM
1

Why is it his obligation to clear up a confusion that the women built themselves? Wouldn't it be more prudent of them to ask if the relationship was going to go anywhere than to assume he's dating for marriage without evidence?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 03:55 AM
1

Do you mean the prison sentencing disparity that reflects cultural ideals of the moral worth of a man's capacity for unrestrained violence? The disparity that directly reflects ideals of a woman's capacity for danger as being inferior to the masculine ideal? I'm not exactly sure it's a compliment of women to be considered too delicate for honest punishment of crimes committed, boss.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 03:53 AM
4

The point of comparison is "putting in work towards an outcome that was not confirmed to be on the table by your partner to begin with."
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 01:27 AM
4

It sounds like OP understands both issues are identical, and is frustrated at the idea that sex is seen as a more contemptible outcome than marriage. It's not that he doesn't get what frustrated his ex, but more that her frustration is seen as justifiable, while his is seen as crass.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 01:09 AM
3

Yeah, a lot of the fuckzone discourse really does boil down to incongruence between what people desire out of a relationship.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 12:45 AM
7

That does seem to be the sentiment, no?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 12:44 AM
9

My condolences boss. It's always a rough feeling to begin the process of investing in a relationship where your partner doesn't share the same intentions for the relationship that you do. The thing a lot of people will say is that there's supposed to be some kind of premeditated discussion of what a relationship is supposed to be before you fall into that trap.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 12:30 AM
–

What is the value of a human being?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 12:16 AM
–

If emotionally stunted men got left behind, women wouldn't be foolish enough to stumble into abusive relationships. There's too many variables to make that conclusion definitively.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/26 07:27 PM
–

Are you saying that wives don't benefit from the work they do to maintain their home? It's not my fault they don't value their indentured domestic servitude to the same extent their husband does.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/26 07:19 PM
1

Is desirability actually measured?
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/26 07:10 PM
1

Right, maybe I should have clarified. What does it mean To You?
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/26 06:28 PM
9

Oh shit are we dunking on the Wilson couple!? Hell yeah!
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/26 06:26 PM
2

Maybe you should explain what it means to listen, because it sounds like you're operating on a completely separate definition of the term than many others would consider. For example, I define listening as the ability to hear someone, and meaningfully engage with the ideas they've presented.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/26 06:19 PM
2

Both are starting a fight.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/26 06:10 PM
1

Common sense isn't objective, and logic is contingent on its goals. Logically, it's fallacious to assume that starting a fight leads to no consequences especially if violence was on the table to begin with.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/26 06:06 PM
3

Objectively? By what metric?
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/26 05:59 PM
5

Does listening necessitate obeying?
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/26 05:55 PM
–

And women get oh so much exercise and training when they pick up the slack around the house. Widows and divorcees really should see the value in building those valuable job skills.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/26 05:31 PM
1

Are we arguing that uncompensated labor is a good thing here?
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/26 08:29 AM
3

That's a problem for you to solve boss. I'm not here to convince you of anything but the influence of money in interpersonal relationships, and how that can put real strain on interpersonal dynamics.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/26 07:24 AM
1

I feel like a nonzero part of this conversation is the point where capitalism meets patriarchy, and the power that comes from being able to access wealth in relation to needing to acquire it from the mercy of your domestic partner.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/26 06:51 AM
11

No, yes, yes, and because I'm not especially adept at hearing all the ways I'm wrong for perceiving reality and adjusting my perception on the spot to match an ideal that looks incomprehensible from any angle.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/26 06:23 AM
12

I've been in therapy for upwards of two decades, and it has done very little for me towards the happiness and fulfillment angle.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/26 05:58 AM
3

No? The fallibility of a scientist doesn't detract from their decades of study in a given field.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/26 03:47 AM
7

Bonus points if she responds to being told how foolish these arguments sound by saying "guys are just allergic to accountability."
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 10:20 PM
6

That wasn't the premise lily. Are you more popular than Trump?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 10:05 PM
2

Ahhhh masking, the ultimate act of taking accountability for your fundamental flaws. I hate it here.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 10:03 PM
10

Get your popcorn brother. This is the same song we've heard a dozen times, and it's no more persuasive now than it was last week.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 09:42 PM
4

It's basically her primary rhetorical strategy.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 09:41 PM
2

We're post roe dude. Half the country thinks it's acceptable for women to risk their lives giving birth to ectopic pregnancies before considering it acceptable to abort
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 07:19 PM
-1

Like I said. It sounds like feminists are catching up.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 06:31 PM
1

Some
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 05:26 PM
–

You asked why should you care. I answered. Does your partner have no interest in how you treat others, or how others consider you?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 04:51 PM
2

There's a difference between being justifiable and being persuasive. How many people will you convince of a position that you don't adhere to?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 04:26 PM
2

It's the same outcome really. "Take accountability for the worth you bring to a relationship" is rhetorically idententical to "become a high value man to get anywhere romantically"
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 04:25 PM
1

Hung up?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 04:21 PM
2

And why is it our responsibility to cater to your insecurities?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 04:19 PM
3

There's remarkably little one can do about the insecurities of others. If you don't want to feel watched, cultivate a sense of apathy.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 04:17 PM
5

If we agree that judging and hating is wrong. And we agree that people know it's wrong. Why are we of the opinion that you should do something just because others are doing it? Do you plan on picking up a shoplifting habit anytime soon?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 04:16 PM
-2

This is why it's important to understand how systemic belief in the value of women as objects is directly responsible for putting men in positions where they're expected to be more responsible. Imprisonment is a misogyny issue, because it's commonly believed that men are more violent even when women are pushed to similar acts. The draft is a misogyny issue, because the capacity to enact violence is a societal standard held to men, with the presumption that women are objects to be protected and f…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 04:15 PM
–

Because dating is a social activity, and that means it will necessarily require interfacing with groups outside of your partner, such as your partner's friend group, or family, or your own social network, or any other person capable of directly interfering in your success.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 04:09 PM
3

Women have built an entire movement around why that shit isn't cool
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 03:59 PM
2

I didn't say it was a contradiction. I said it was a concession. If you're gonna be upset about people being upset that you're doing something that you do sometimes, I don't think the argument to make is "well, I don't do it all the time-" If OP's argument was "well men do it too," I'd still roll my eyes at the idea that men and women are held to anywhere near the same moral and cultural standard, or even that they should be at this particular stage of the game, but at best this comes across as …
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 08:39 AM
4

OP even said they themselves are a participant in the behavior they claim doesn't happen. Once that concession was made, any nuance was just haggling over whether or not people should be irritated by another person's choices. I left my thought police badge in my burner account, so right now I'm just not feeling the need to hold everyone to an arbitrary moral standard for the sake of this poster's comfort.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 08:31 AM
6

Are you of the opinion that slutshaming is a good thing for society? If so, fire away. Be the change you want to see in the world. Here's hoping you build some cultural momentum towards your ideal society. I'm not particularly fond of the practice, myself, because I think sex-negativity generally leads to more problems downstream, like poor access to information on reproductive health, or a culture that justifies cruel treatment of sex workers, or even just a society that pressures women into be…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 08:18 AM
2

In general, a guy who has no friends that are women reads to you as a guy who cannot make friends with women for some reason?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 08:02 AM
8

Hi there. Man in disagreement. I'm fine being the househusband. If I want a child of a working woman, I am at least aware enough of our social dynamic to understand that a solid support network is needed to keep the burden of childcare at a manageable level. The degree to which that burden is distributed amongst me, my partner, or what community I have at my disposal is open to negotiation once rubber hits road, but I'm not so arrogant to demand a mommy bangmaid without reservation.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 07:52 AM
4

But like, a red flag generally, to all women, or a red flag to you, the current representative of all women? Personally as long as Epstein has a wife, I'm hard-pressed to call the presence or absence of lady friends damning evidence of someone's danger.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 07:45 AM
3

It sounds like a personal judgement moreso than any reasoned argument. "This is a red flag because it makes me think these things about the men who engage in this behavior," isn't really something worth disputing any more than someone's taste in footwear.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 07:43 AM
1

What is the debatable premise here?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 07:38 AM
3

Are they? By the estimations of OP, they seem to be constructing a completely separate game all by themselves and whatever sad bastard is willing to forsake themselves in order to get a seat at the table.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 04:53 AM
5

There is a difference between "babies with no agency whatsoever," and "willing participants in a game that requires two players to start."
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 04:31 AM
–

Those opinions will directly impact your dating pool though? How other people think about you and your romantic viability directly translates to how often other people will consider you a viable romantic partner, or at the very least someone worth recommending to others. It's a practical concern to measure your worth in the gaze of others.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 04:20 AM
2

Did I say trauma dumping? No, my accusation is very simply that you think "I'm fine," a textbook lie of omission, is grounds to question a relationship.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 04:18 AM
–

The topic of how much caring about others matters?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 03:18 AM
–

Too dependent? I mean, if the options were to care too much about what other people think versus not caring at all, I'd argue that it's healthier to lean towards basic consideration of others than absolute contempt. It's not like the rest of the world has too much of a popular conception for people with antisocial personality disorders. There's not a lot in the way of moral consideration for people who are generally unwilling or incapable of extending the same courtesy to others.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 02:49 AM
–

Because to live in constant disregard of the standards of others is a quick and easy way to be stigmatized.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 02:39 AM
0

Huh, so it is. I guess I do need to adjust my position. Feminists are playing catch up it looks like.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 02:37 AM
1

The opinion by most scholars is that everyone is oppressed under patriarchy.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 02:00 AM
2

Hi there, feminist weighing in on the cultural outputs of misandry and misogyny. Misandry has not written laws, sat in a government office, held power more significant than a particularly ruthless mother-figure, while Misogynistic people have held power long enough to adjudicate whether or not women deserve control over their own body, or whether or not people who have changed their name, through marriage or transition, deserve the right to vote. The average internet douchebag saying women don't…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 01:57 AM
1

I can imagine plenty of guys succeed without considering their worth. It's likely unquestionable to a select privileged few.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 01:10 AM
3

Or, it leads to consistent incongruence when the reasons one might consider themselves desirable fail to result in any meaningful romantic success. Knowing one's strengths means fuck and all when those strengths aren't regarded as desirable enough to merit a relationship.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 12:29 AM
1

The condition of the lies isn't quite as important as the acceptance of the lie. "I'll only accept white lies in circumstances where the truth is socially unacceptable," is an acceptance of white lies.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 12:28 AM
3

If I'm in a relationship with someone, I'm sharing the best parts of myself, because the worst parts are what have routinely led to relationships breaking down in the past.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 12:21 AM
1

You'll accept white lies
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 12:20 AM
2

I'm not? I'm saying that it is weird to dump somebody for not sharing immediately.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/26 11:33 PM
3

Read what I said again. Dumping someone for not sharing their emotional burdens.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/26 11:30 PM
1

Which is a significantly better world than what's being advocated for here.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/26 09:13 PM
1

Heterofatalists hold disgust and desire in the same breath
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/26 07:35 PM
2

I'm sorry dawg. It's rough going when you feel unmoored.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/26 06:54 PM
2

I would say that there's value in joy. The ability to give back to your community, and to enjoy doing so, is a valuable quality. I really struggled to do the same when I was going through my internship, because even though I could cognitively grasp that I was doing good, it didn't feel like I was doing anything worthwhile or valuable.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/26 06:50 PM
5

Compatibility is valuable. Arguing to build or foster or seek Compatibility is one thing. This is not an argument to find a romantic match, or a person who values you. It's to build and kneel in supplication to an arbitrary standard which cannot be held across the breadth of human experiences. It builds a hierarchy in the same way patriarchy or capitalism builds a hierarchy, by expecting everyone shackled to these models of constant reshaping and expenditure to somehow Earn a partner. "Become va…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/26 06:45 PM
2

You're volunteering? Even if you could dismiss the judgement of family as biased, volunteer work is by definition an act of giving value to something. To have value to give means something, right?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/26 06:36 PM
1

Who do you talk to regularly? Who's in your life who hasn't deliberately chosen distance?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/26 06:32 PM
4

Haha, I couldn't imagine dumping someone because they didn't completely unload their emotional burdens when asked.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/26 06:27 PM
5

Everyone has a right to react to their problems however they want. That's elementary freedom of choice. Just like you have the freedom to choose to ignore every man who violates your arbitrary standards of personhood, every man has the right to be as obnoxious as they're capable of. Concerning your argument of entitlement, I need to interrogate the idea that it is entitled to believe in inherent human worth, because on the other side of that belief is the justification that it's okay do dehumani…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/26 06:12 PM
1

So white lies.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/26 05:54 PM
0

"My day was fine."
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/26 05:51 PM
0

You're free to make your own choices, but I implore you to reconsider the value you bring to others.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/26 05:51 PM
5

Every time we converse, you seem possessed by the idea that whiners are subhuman scum unworthy of basic human interaction unless they can drag themselves into fulfilling an arbitrary script for standard human value. That's not taking accountability for failure, that's imposing a flattening mold on the scope of how humans can exist. It's like applying the Protestant Work Ethic to living. It's a derivative position from your idea that not everyone is worthy of love or respect, and the problems inh…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/26 05:35 PM
3

Do you know what a Motte and Bailey defense is? Because I didn't say accountability was the problem, I said that demanding everyone consider what value they bring to their relationships is problematic.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/26 05:19 PM
6

I didn't say it was your problem. I said your solution was anti-feminist.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/26 05:10 PM
14

Nothing like advocating for gender equality by making everyone insecure about their worth as a person. Truly the ideal feminist outcome is for men and women alike to swear off relationships because nobody thinks they're worth anything to anyone.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/26 04:40 PM
1

You're a hero for swan-diving onto that grenade
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/26 02:21 AM
–

I wasn't accusing you of hypocrisy. I was noting that this argument has been made by women towards men for similar reasons.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/26 01:57 AM
–

Nothing like a bit of casual hypocrisy to get someone through the night, eh?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/26 01:51 AM
–

How often were you expected to be the initiator?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 10:58 PM
–

I didn't say it wasn't a challenge for everyone. I said that the challenges are different depending on context. I implore you to engage with what I say instead of who you think I am, because that just illustrates how untrustworthy you are as council.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 10:49 PM
–

Same obstacles? Were you in the habit of being the guy in your relationships?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 10:46 PM
–

More results as someone navigating a completely separate set of obstacles.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 10:43 PM
–

What makes you more trustworthy than a single man with limited results?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 10:30 PM
–

I wouldn't trust a member of the FGC community to give advice on Yomi Hustle unless they're actively playing. A competitive Tekken Player may have some pretty solid experience in playing Tekken, only for their advice to be absolutely useless after a single balance patch or game update or fresh release. Just so with people who are no longer beholden to the rigors of dating.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 10:25 PM
1

Correct.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 06:47 PM
–

What's so frustrating about semantic drift?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 06:11 PM
0

What's in my nature is a vastly different arena of conversation from what is in nature.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 05:21 PM
0

Nature doesn't dictate what people should do.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 05:13 PM
-1

Oh? Are you saying there are complex social mechanisms designed to prevent people from acting as nature dictates? Fascinating. Maybe nature shouldn't define how people conduct themselves.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 04:55 PM
0

Hi there, man singular here, I've never once compared myself to an animal, because I loathe being seen as something other than who I am. I understand why other people are reasonably wary of strangers, and I empathize with a desire to cleanly organize the breadth of the human experience into something easily navigable, but arguments about natural selection or social darwinism are legitimately the worst strategies to that end.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 04:51 PM
-5

Luckily, male geese don't have to worry about something so pesky as consent.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 04:22 PM
-3

If we're appealing to nature, then at what point can men start treating women the same way geese do?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 04:17 PM
2

Everyone's love is conditional, women aren't particularly special in this regard.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 04:03 PM
1

How so?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 03:56 PM
–

There is a difference between someone happening to be from a difference culture and you guys hitting it off, and actively hunting down a foreign partner because you're repulsed by your own culture.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 03:49 PM
2

Oh the irony in this one is amazing. I definitely needed this laugh first thing in the morning
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 03:45 PM
1

Every post?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 03:43 PM
–

Depends on the task, doesn't it
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 02:01 PM
–

Let's take a moment to dive into the merits of searching abroad for love. If we abandon stereotypes, then we're still left with a few questions that can have some well-reasoned conclusions. For example, Why look so far outside of one's own cultural norms and peer groups for a romantic partner? What advantages does this decision provide?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 06:23 AM
–

Not "all" "Progressive"
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 06:16 AM
–

Didn't we just agree that stereotypes are bad?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 06:15 AM
–

Effort is a subjective metric. There is no measurable unit for how much mental energy it takes to put oneself out there, face tank a rejection, and roll on to the next attempt.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 06:08 AM
–

Dating apps are shit. We live in a society where women see wild animals as less dangerous than men. Guys no longer have the same capacity to offer social or economic security as they were obligated to even a half-century ago, there are less places to meet in public, there are no scripts for achieving contemporary romantic success, the list goes on, and the market crash you're describing may well be upon us with the increasing tension between the cultural standards of men and women. It's depressi…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 06:04 AM
–

You're right. I should chosen a better sequence of words to describe the issue I take for guys shopping out of the country for "love." Sorry about that. My point is that shopping abroad for a culture more aligned to a guy's interest in domestic hierarchy, in looking for a traditional submissive wife (specifically when contrasted against those uppity western whores) indicates some issues I would consider incompatible with a mutually loving relationship.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 05:59 AM
–

Many people agreeing with something doesn't make it a fact. That's an appeal to popularity, and hypergamy isn't an especially popular framework for a number of reasons. Additionally, most people in the west panicking about birthrates and replacement levels have some fairly impractical ideas concerning immigration and cultural hegemony that I'd personally rather see go extinct. With regards to finding love, real, genuine, human connection with a peer who understands and regards me as an equal, I …
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 05:52 AM
–

Peerage.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 05:45 AM
–

I'm not sure becoming a passport bro is an economically feasible solution to the average guy living check to check. Hell, I'm not even sure outsourcing romantic interest to people who cannot share your cultural framework is a healthy dynamic given how closely it mirrors other hierarchical frameworks of exploitation. Do you have an answer that doesn't involve exporting your interest to a party incapable of meaningfully defying you?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 05:44 AM
2

There seems to be some incongruence between how people define "urgent"
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 05:41 AM
2

If you intend for the ask to be responded to with immediate acquiescence, then it's an order. An ask can be refused.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 05:39 AM
–

I wonder how much of this comes from socialization. Because it sounds like you're describing a pretty common point of frustration over how relationships stereotypically develop without really digging into the possible exceptions, or avenues of reform. What alternative scripts would benefit the population that, by your own admission, isn't interested in dating or romance or relationships as much as men? Because to me, I'm not sure there's a way to reconcile the sense of desire for another person …
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 05:30 AM
5

Living in honest pain is a better life than living under an anesthetic lie.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/26 02:06 AM
3

Yeah, that reads like cult shit, boss. "Only you can choose to accept the radiance of God into your heart," does not a compelling argument make for denying the evidence of one's eyes and ears.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/26 02:03 AM
3

And the ones without?
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/26 01:57 AM
3

At what point does a child become responsible for their own self-sufficiency? Because I'm not sure you can draw a clear line of demarcation between "boy, worthy of moral consideration," and "man, oppressor."
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/26 01:57 AM
3

This is a pretty cruel situation to describe. Does nobody help others in this world of yours? Is it unreasonable to request guidance or aid from those who are in a position to do so?
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/26 01:55 AM
4

Prostitution predates feminism.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/26 10:32 PM
2

What is real love in your estimation?
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/26 10:31 PM
17

Some people aren't interested in understanding the cause so much as they're eager to see a change in effect. The only thing I can see in this premise worth disputing is the question of what to do with this knowledge
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/26 09:56 PM
2

Because there are more substantial strategies for reducing the amounts of Karen energy in the world than screaming into cyberspace like you're heralding the rapture, like talking to Karens and figuring out what their deal is instead of ragebaiting in the semikaren argument wall. It's a matter of praxis, of intentionally encouraging an outcome, as opposed to posting a half-formed thesis on a debate subreddit. If the goal is to "hold men accountable," then the strategy must necessarily facilitate …
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/26 02:59 PM
-1

Did you ask for something substantial, or did you leap right to erroneous accusation of fallacy? Because a more serious critique of your sentiment would be the presumption that guys consciously revel in the devaluation of women as opposed to having not fully mapped out the beliefs of sex and intimacy that they've internalized via being around other people. It's really strange to draw the conclusion that men as a demographic take joy in the defilement of others.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/26 02:47 PM
3

And how impactful is this strategy? There probably aren't many longitudinal studies on the impact of organized women's labor in South Korea yet to pick through, but I'm curious nonetheless.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/26 02:45 PM
2

Who are you holding accountable here? Who's going to see this and go "ah, that LilithOfBabylon lady has a point actually. I should start policing all my boys and changing my presentation to appeal to women because it really is all my fault?" Because again, I'm not arguing against accountability, I'm arguing against your ability to hold anyone accountable.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/26 02:43 PM
0

I was not attacking you as a person, I was explaining the failure of calling something psychopathic as a rhetorical tool. An ad hominem would be calling you too much of a dumbass to make a respectable point, and I'm very distinctly not doing that.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/26 02:40 PM
2

I mean they probably could if they lived in regular proximity to each other, but again, that's an issue of sharing community, not checking someone because you share a chromosome. Again, the issue isn't "nobody's holding these people accountable," it's that you don't have the motion to hold anybody accountable. Nobody trusts your judgement enough to reflect on when you accuse them of being the source of all their woes. If nothing else, you can't expect people to receive your council if it's alway…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/26 02:38 PM
0

Psychopathic is an obnoxious colloquialism. I don't think anybody who uses the word has even a passing knowledge of the diagnostic criteria for psychopathy.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/26 02:27 PM
5

Accountability is something that can only be imposed by power structures or communities. If you're not in a position to make someone reflect on themselves, then all you're really doing is grandstanding from a soapbox.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/26 02:23 PM
5

How does that mesh with the environments wherein a woman's only meaningful advantage is their ability to play into what men want? Are waitresses skimping out on tips for the sake of political leverage, or are the only meaningful changes placed on matters of love and romance?
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/26 02:22 PM
–

I think there's a rhetorical difference between "failed to download" and "wasn't installed." Women are broadly socialized to believe that someone, maybe even the right person, will find them eventually if they just stay resilient and keep it pushing. Guys don't get that lesson. They're told from birth that its their obligation to pursue, court, woo, and wed, lest they become failures to themselves, their families, and their community. The stakes just aren't the same even when you acknowledge the…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/26 06:22 PM
3

You understand how obnoxious that is, right?
/r/PurplePillDebate13/07/26 10:03 PM
4

Are you reading to comprehend or reading to rebuttal?
/r/PurplePillDebate13/07/26 09:47 PM
13

Effort is one of those vague terms that means nearly nothing when you look at it.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/07/26 09:45 PM
4

No. It's not exactly practical advice because it does not meaningfully shift the needle away from being single. There is no amount of effort a guy can put in to force an impossible relationship.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/07/26 09:40 PM
4

The difference between "it's not exactly practical advice" and "only victims won't see my point here," should be obvious.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/07/26 09:35 PM
11

On the one hand- "you really shouldn't change yourself for anybody. The right one will find you if you keep looking." But on the other hand- "why the fuck should you expect anything if you're not willing to become the type of person who attracts the people you're looking for?"
/r/PurplePillDebate13/07/26 08:11 PM
17

What a remarkable appeal to purity that is. It's a pretty concise self-validating claim that holds no room for interrogation. Do you have a more cogent argument than "the people who don't listen to me are people who have already given up?"
/r/PurplePillDebate13/07/26 08:09 PM
26

Lilith seems to live and die on the platform that men simply aren't bootstrapping hard enough to find dating success in this environment, and as funny as that is, it's not exactly practical advice.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/07/26 08:02 PM
5

I said it was reasonable to be frustrated at the idea that not anybody seems to be interested in him. Those aren't the same sentiment.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/07/26 05:54 AM
3

About as deluded as you have to be to think it's his personality, or any other single mitigating factor that has been overcome by the rest of the world.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/07/26 04:54 AM
2

Are people less socially intelligent than him in relationships?
/r/PurplePillDebate13/07/26 03:47 AM
2

That's a skill issue boss. If you can't see how everyone in the OLD Space is having a bad time, then you're not really equipped to gauge the nuances between each particular brand of horror
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/26 10:30 PM
3

I think you've got it backwards. Using your emotional labor to get sex from you implies that if you spent enough of your energy balancing out the emotions of a random dude that you'd reward them with sex afterwards. Even if they were trying to use you as a prospective bangmaid, the dynamic would be them expending emotional labor in order to secure intimacy from you. And all of this is a diversion from the claim that both a friendship with someone who can see your world, and a friendship that req…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/26 10:29 PM
3

It sounds like you're describing orbiters, not friends.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/26 10:23 PM
7

Bad isn't a comparison, it's a binary. Who has it worst doesn't negate who has it bad
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/26 10:23 PM
2

And would you say those dynamics are equally beneficial?
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/26 10:04 PM
2

Was the question "is it useful to have women as friends," or "is a friendship with women as advantageous as a friendship with men?"
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/26 10:02 PM
2

How much if oneself can be stripped away before someone ceases to be themselves?
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/26 08:43 PM
2

Does it? Or do people have to constantly take actions to affirm their being, present themselves in a manner to be observed in a way that aligns with their self-perception?
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/26 08:38 PM
7

No, definitionally, there is no social force or physical mechanic in the known universe that simply "is"
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/26 07:59 PM
4

How many men do you know who meet that criteria? Because I'm not convinced you're describing a real person.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/26 07:58 PM
10

Nothing in the world just works.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/26 07:55 PM
2

There's a different world of lived experience between men and women. A woman friend might have plenty of valuable insight into their world, but I hesitate to believe they're particularly useful for empathizing with the problems that arise from moving as a man in society.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/26 07:52 PM
5

Pfft. The humor in this is that guys only care about sex, but also they "only listen to other men."
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/26 07:50 PM
17

There's rapidly compounding evidence that no available suitor found him compelling enough to make a move on. That's enough for plenty of people. Nobody Has to find him attractive, but knowing gravity exists doesn't stop it from bringing you down. Dude's allowed to feel burned by failure, especially when it repeats at scale.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/26 07:48 PM
0

You're describing a fairly singular category of man. I'm not sure that's the only category experiencing this kind of double-bind.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/26 07:43 PM
14

I suspect the issue isn't being "everyone's" cup of tea so much as the duress that arises from not being "anyone's" cup of tea.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/26 07:42 PM
5

Does caring about love inhibit desiring sex? Is this some "if you loved me you could settle for chastity" style argument?
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/26 07:41 PM
1

Uh. Everyone sells their bodies. If you have a job, you are definitionally exchanging your body for currency If you want a more explicit example, every professional athlete, actor, and entertainer is physically putting themselves at risk for the sake of profit.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/26 06:20 PM
–

Girl's got a brand. Don't say anything too critical though, it'll short the conversation out faster than dumping a toaster in a bathtub.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/26 06:16 PM
-1

Compared to the hateful manchildren who can score with irritating regularity? It's an accurate assessment of one person, but not especially condemnatory of dating as a process.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/26 03:54 PM
1

Presumably the latter.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/26 03:51 PM
3

I mean, yeah. Everyone's questionable. If someone's unquestionable that's its own problem
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/26 06:54 AM
1

All beliefs are questionable.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/07/26 08:42 PM
2

If there are no guarantees, then it stands to reason that all is fair.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/07/26 08:41 PM
2

Unless that 5% is only accessible one day of the year, or in an environment that costs time and money to get to with any regularity, or expects a mode of behavior that goes against my sense of integrity, or any other mitigating factors that could shave that percentage down further.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/07/26 08:27 PM
3

Does it?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/07/26 08:17 PM
3

An argument exists that larger women's feelings are more valuable for accessibility, not less.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/07/26 08:11 PM
3

The existence of monsters is not a viable reason to treat others monstrously.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/07/26 08:08 PM
2

I didn't read the implication that larger women's feelings had less value, only that their standards were less stringent than others. Bad behaviors should receive pushback, yes, but there is a difference between calling some shit wierd, and calling someone pathetic for being wierd.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/07/26 08:06 PM
3

Good people can express frustration without looking for excuses to shed their decency. There's a difference between being legitimately upset, and resolving to behave monstrously.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/07/26 08:04 PM
2

I'm just kinda confused mostly. Does righteous indignation lend your claims sny credibility, or was it just cathartic self-satistfaction to insult someone who isn't dancing to the right social tune? Why draw this conclusion, and what's the ideal outcome of its assertion?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/07/26 07:52 PM
0

Your conclusion is a personal attack.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/07/26 07:47 PM
3

By saying that if it didn't matter people would choose to be indecent? Or arguing that OP should give it a shot and see what outcomes arise? Because to me, the existence of indecent people succeeding is evidence enough that decency is not a necessary condition to romantic success.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/07/26 07:46 PM
1

Is that a personal attack?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/07/26 07:43 PM
2

"More likely" isn't exactly a measurable claim. Your suggestion appeals more to faith than any sort of coherent cause and effect here.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/07/26 07:41 PM
7

Do you know who Graham Platner is? Because he's not exactly a strong paragon of redpill ideology or rhetoric. Dude's a politician.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/07/26 07:39 PM
2

An argument exists that by being able to enter relationships at all, the dynamic of being an abuser is enviable to someone who has never found success in building a relationship themselves. It's like watching a factory poison a water supply while you're stranded in a desert. At least those guys have water to ruin.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/07/26 07:38 PM
5

I think the point is that being a nazi rapist doesn't restrict someone from getting into relationships. Which really does put a little dirt on the idea that being a bad person or having a bad personality is the reason some people aren't in relationships, because people with those qualities are in relationships.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/07/26 07:35 PM
3

The answer submitted to "what reason is there to select for good people," was "presumably [you'd select for good people] because you have a conscience." The existence of a conscience does not mean you will select for good people, though. It means you'll select for people that don't offend your personal morals. Unless everyone has the same personal morals, a conscience will not ensure such regularity in selection, and I don't see the use in claiming that it will, because relationships are built o…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/07/26 07:33 PM
3

That doesn't answer my question, and it certainly doesn't follow from the claim made at the start of this thread.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/07/26 07:22 PM
2

Do you think abusers have a history of more or less relationships than average?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/07/26 07:20 PM
8

What reason exists for all consciences to follow the same rules?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/07/26 07:17 PM
–

I caught "weed out," and "the stakes are so high," but what the fuck is ohisical?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/07/26 10:30 AM
–

I believe that's a deliberate rhetorical choice to illustrate the double-standard. Women feel reasonably burned by men as a class. Young men as a class feel burned by that revulsion, and the general conversation in this domain is that guys really should suck it up and empathize with women instead of reckoning with their own clearly irrational distress.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/07/26 10:20 AM
1

What does privileged mean in this context?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/07/26 08:11 PM
1

Tf is a biological imperative?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/26 07:45 PM
–

"Nobody" is an exaggeration
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/26 05:54 PM
–

And if you do speak up only to be ignored, or told to suck it up, or otherwise dismissed for having such an inconvenient need?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/26 05:00 PM
–

Presuming a discussion is sometimes enough.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/26 04:46 PM
–

When you're not accustomed to openly expressing a need for company or support, an acceptable exit valve for distress is an alternative interest to provide a sense of comeraderie.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/26 04:40 PM
0

You're correct. It would be more accurate to say that advocating for divestment from political activity is in fact a political action.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/26 04:03 AM
1

You're not talking to feminists if you think they want men to have the social obligations of men.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/26 12:23 AM
1

Liberals possibly. Progressives notsomuch. Progressives typically argue for systemic change.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 11:19 PM
2

I'm inclined to reiterate Disingaging from politics is in itself a political act.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 11:14 PM
3

It is not apolitical to desire no change in a current system. The desire to conserve a status quo is intrinsic to conservatism.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 11:09 PM
21

"You may not be interested in politics, but politics are very much interested in you."
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 10:50 PM
9

This really does just tie very neatly into the idea that objects are more valuable than people in society. Because women aren't treated as valuable for their personality, or competence, or general social acumen. They're treated as valuable when it comes to serving as incubators for children, or as home secretaries for families, or prized fuckable livestock that you need to lock down and exploit before their value drops. If being treated as a person means being treated like a man, then let's be h…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 09:18 PM
2

That's an analysis so reductive any utility has been wrung out to fight the summer heat. How are you drawing the conclusion that this is the factor Most impacting men's romantic success, in comparison to more material variables, like the restriction of free time in order to pick up another double shift, or the closing of third spaces that would facilitate meeting people in more neutral settings?
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 06:49 PM
1

You're delightfully adept at reframing a point to suit your own grievances, but that's not how that exchange went. Remember, you asked what the purpose of bitching about something without doing anything about it is. I just pointed out that there was utility in doing so. That utility is in the pursuit of catharsis, a broadly accepted mechanism of emotional regulation.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 06:22 PM
2

You keep reducing the premise to a point of absurdity. Nobody expects reality to bend to their will, they just hold out hope for fairness in systems that are by design unfair. It's not exactly a reasonable premise to expect people to see unfairness, throw up their arms and go "whelp, that's just how it is," and then continue to buy into a system that provides uneven outcomes.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 06:15 PM
0

Call it a consequence of existing on the margins.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 06:11 PM
3

When they direct the conversation, I'm inclined to at least keep an ear open.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 05:53 PM
3

That's a pretty delightful luxury. I'd check in on the mankeeping conversation to see how common that sentiment is in other circles.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 05:51 PM
1

And with the added bonus of bearing all her silent resentment for you refusing to grow up. Truly a charmed life.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 05:33 PM
4

Why?
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 04:59 PM
2

I'd offer an ounce of caution here, because this is a conversation that gets messy fast. Keep in mind that the construction of the system we presently inhabit was a group project that required a lot of coercion, manipulation, and submission from parties that would otherwise have faced severe sanction for resisting. Women were also involved in maintaining the system, but Lilith won't engage with that point until she can tie it back to men being too whiny to abandon it.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 04:09 PM
3

Nah. You can care about something and not care enough to do something about it. "Real care," isn't quantifiable in what actions it encourages. Besides, guys whining about standards aren't whining about standards they've set so much as a world they've inherited. By this logic you're saying anyone who drives a car shouldn't be pissed about gas prices because they're contributing to the cost of gas by increasing demand.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 04:02 PM
3

Catharsis.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 03:57 PM
5

So you're going to ignore the second question. Got it. Hi there, I'm a guy in this server who specifically isn't winging about how toxic masculinity has reinforced unhealthy dating norms for men and women. Maybe we can talk as peers instead of you using any individual interlocutor as an avatar of the entire subreddit?
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 03:55 PM
2

Have you read even an ounce of feminist theory in your life? Just, for my sake, I need to understand to what degree you're scaffolding your own values with ingrained prejudice instead of systemic comprehension. This is not going to be a productive conversation unless you can grasp the ways in which guys are deliberately socialized under patriarchy to function as antisocial labor machines.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 03:41 PM
6

I just wanna say thanks to the guys tanking the fight on this one. 🙏 y'all are solid. In order to provide rhetorical content, though, I do want to say this line of thinking positively balks at the standard benchmarks for male socialization under patriarchal systems. Guys don't even get their emotions validated after a point, so who the hell is telling them that they're God's gift to women?
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 03:36 PM
1

Nikki wasn't unconscious though. Nikki wasn't stuffed in the passenger seat of her own body. The customer support call seems to argue that she was somewhere else entirely.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 03:26 PM
–

I don't think Lilith is too caught up on what modern porn premises include if these are the themes she thinks it imparts to the average viewer. Handyman porn has been out of fashion since at least 06, and we have fully grown men who grew up on stepcest and overly aggressive babysitters.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 04:04 PM
–

The fallibility of parents isn't something most people realize until they are on the cusp of being adults themselves.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 03:11 PM
–

I already went down the common sense rabbithole. It never leads anywhere productive.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 03:01 PM
1

They don't?
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 12:17 AM
-2

Why do men complain less?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 09:13 PM
–

You realize anecdotal evidence, or the evidence drawn by your limited perspective on reality, would not uphold a scientific consensus, right?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 03:26 PM
–

Oh? When could they start voting again?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 03:12 PM
–

You've less than zero idea what you're talking about boss. I recommend reading at least one book of theory on this topic before defaulting to your own ignorance.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 03:07 PM
2

No. It's 4am. Unless there's a specific point to expand upon, I'm going to sleep.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 08:01 AM
2

Easy. It holds no analysis of patriarchy as a system of oppression, neither in how it strictly binds the conduct of men, nor the peculiarities of its impact on women. It's a strawman.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 07:33 AM
2

Prove what?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 07:14 AM
6

Would you call someone who only advocates for Christianity when they can benefit from its virtues a Christian? I wouldn't. Part of holding a consistent belief system is upholding the parts that expect something of you.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 03:09 AM
3

Do you think every educated woman is a feminist?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 03:00 AM
1

You didn't hear the part about being the one throwing themselves on the sword, huh?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 01:21 AM
5

I mean, I'm all for exploring the nuances of systemic outcomes associated with feminism.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 12:40 AM
5

That wasn't your claim. Your claim is that "a system is what it does." Not what it does most consistently, or visibly, or regularly. Every outcome associated with that system is what it does.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 12:27 AM
6

By that logic, the blackpill is a radicalization pipeline designed to pump out Elliot Rogers
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 12:19 AM
5

And how much of feminism is what you see? Do you see the mechanisms of their worldview and praxis, or only the outcomes publicized by systems with a vested interest in upholding the status quo?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 12:02 AM
5

There is a degree of difference between a Man existing under patriarchy, and a patriarch themselves. It is difficult for feminists to explain the distinction in detail, in much the same way socialists are maligned in the media landscape, or how civil rights advocates were once considered uppity fools more interested in their own power than the stability of society.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/07/26 11:20 PM
6

Personal gain and Systemic change are parallel conversations, boss. Sure, you can't look at a layman and expect them to understand that they're also complicit in upholding systemic harms, but assuming hypocrisy where ignorance is probably a better metric seems like a recipe for seeing con-artists everywhere you look. I wouldn't call Kimberlé Crenshaw a charlatan, in the same way I wouldn't consider Judith Butler a con artist, or bell hooks. I would just say that academic understandings of system…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/07/26 11:18 PM
-2

The type of gender affirming care I need in my life-
/r/PurplePillDebate05/07/26 10:38 PM
7

I mean to say that, like every other critical framework, it needed some time in the oven to develop a robust framework for how society organizes, and what specific steps can be done to improve it. First and Second wave feminism were the first major woman's advocacy movements in our understanding of history, so it makes sense they had to do drastic shit like threaten parliament and protest the lack of rights they had in proportion to others. Third wave feminism is where more thorough systemic ana…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/07/26 10:30 PM
10

Every time someone says Feminism without an understanding of systemic critique, I get one new Grey hair. This is not an accurate summation of feminist thought or advocacy since at least the second wave
/r/PurplePillDebate05/07/26 10:16 PM
11

Holy shit can't a brother just want a hug sometimes?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/07/26 10:12 PM
3

You're chronically bad at deducing how i feel, but I'll happily clarify if you ask.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/07/26 06:43 PM
3

Entitlement is the belief that someone is owed something. I didn't say I was owed love. I said I was loveable.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/07/26 05:51 PM
4

Incorrect. There is a difference between "to be loved without doing anything," and "being loved because you are lovable"
/r/PurplePillDebate05/07/26 05:41 PM
3

Advocating for bribery today?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/07/26 05:35 PM
7

It would be pretty nice to be wanted.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/07/26 05:00 PM
1

Disputing the adequacy of a definition is still sticking to a premise. I don't understand the utility of this definition, which is why I asked a clarifying question about what gives it value. I was asking how this definition holds up in circumstances where it is not the most effective avenue to success. Like I said, "not being a jerk," is such a low bar to clear that anyone can do it, but not every non-jerk is in a relationship, so other steps and strategies are necessarily going to be considere…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/07/26 12:50 PM
0

Nah. We've stepped pretty far afield for your sake. We still haven't hammered out a definition for decency yet, or discussed why it's prescriptively true that in order to find a woman who meets your standards specifically, a man needs to bend the knee and cultivate a decent personality, as opposed to simply being decent. Honestly, this entire conversation has just been an exercise in how quickly you can step away from your own premise to put blame on others, and I don't really have the patience …
/r/PurplePillDebate05/07/26 12:03 PM
0

Lying is by definition an act of humility. It's a recognition that being truthful and sincere will not achieve one's goals, and changing to facilitate a more beneficial outcome for oneself. Being a liar is choosing to exist mutably, with a flexible enough presentation to adopt whatever perspective is most useful for assuaging the concerns of others. That requires a level of self-awareness that you advocated for very clearly in your description of what makes people adults instead of unchanging ma…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/07/26 11:52 AM
2

Women relinquished their imposed obligation to take care of the majority of home care because it was unjust for them to do all that unpaid work without some kind of reciprocity. Don't frame that choice as some great sacrifice on their part to assume half of what was previously all of their responsibility. This isn't a rationalization of entitlement, it's a description of how relationships have changed mechanically since the establishment of first wave feminism, and an explanation for why that ch…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/07/26 01:29 AM
3

The nuance is in the fact that I don't see lying as an inherently bad thing, and your essay is a tacit encouragement of people humbling themselves in pursuit of achieving romantic success. It's an encouragement for people to change for the sake of scoring, or taken another way, changing without sincerity.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/07/26 01:23 AM
4

Do you often return to the top of the conversation when you run out of ideas? Is this argument "if you don't see what makes my premise perfectly reasonable, it must be the result of your low IQ?" Because there's a term for that logical fallacy as well.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 09:48 PM
1

Thank you
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 07:12 PM
1

It's problematic because people are expected by people to be better than animals.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 06:34 PM
2

I don't think those are the only clear options. Being sad is still possible
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 06:22 PM
1

An excellent question with any number of answers. Your worth could be defined externally if that suits you, but that feels far too ephemeral for my tastes.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 06:00 PM
5

You're going to have to make a mute compelling argument as to why any of that shit matters, boss. Fitness is a pursuit that will make someone happy "eventually" Being financially well-off is a benefit that matters if someone cares about wealth or success, which isn't a universally held standard. Social competence is all labor on behalf of spectators, so it's benefit is really contingent on how much if yourself you can hide from being seen None of these benefits are inherent, they're contingent o…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 05:41 PM
5

Self-improvement in order to obtain a relationship is inconsistent advice. No matter how much flowery language is thrown behind the practice, at the end of the day you're just adding more chips to a gambling table. Nobody likes working if there's only a percentage chance that they'll get a paycheck
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 05:04 PM
2

Or personal inadequacy, such as a lack of wealth, status, or attractiveness.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 04:28 PM
2

Bringing up "decency is necessary but insufficient" was the clarification effort boss. It was well within your capacity to say "yes, this is what I believe," instead of reacting to this benign statement as if it's some sort of sinister rhetorical trap.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 04:20 PM
1

The binary between not being a jerk and being a doormat? I'd consider that more of a gradient, personally, but you do seem to have a very strong habit of filling the gaps in your comprehension with whatever you feel is relevant. I try to ask for clarification before making such judgements myself.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 04:16 PM
7

Sometimes I feel like there are two demographics talking completely past each other in these spaces.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 04:08 PM
2

That's a conclusion you've drawn, not an assertion I've raised.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 04:07 PM
3

Conversely, plenty of people are unduly stigmatized by the pressures of normative cultural standards, and treated as pariahs for their inability to perform basic social roles. I prefer to trust my friends than to trust the society that calls them terrible for being publicly neurodivergent.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 04:05 PM
8

Common sense is a bandwagon fallacy. It rarely passes the sniff test. Calling decency a necessary but insufficient condition also doesn't hold up in a world where indecent people are rewarded with carnal success if not intimate success. Why pursue decency if predation ensures more effective results?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 03:31 PM
3

So long as I don't draw the conclusion that someone is terrible, I feel it's only responsible to withhold judgement until evidence is provided. Prior example- if my partner doesn't talk to people at her work, and they call her a bitch for that, that's not a judgement I'm inclined to agree with.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 03:30 PM
7

Lmao. If people thought they were gonna get their dick sucked for being decent to others, we'd see a lot more decent people. As it stands, you're not really defining decency beyond "not being a jerk," and any doormat can achieve that.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 03:28 PM
4

And biological determinism has no utility. It's blatant denial of human agency and a reduction of the full spectrum of our experience into animal drives and genetic predisposition. We haven't relied on that shit since we crawled out of caves and started planting crops.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 03:26 PM
7

"Terrible" is an aggressively subjective term. Besides, this doesn't answer my question, and I think I know why. You don't think decency is enough.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 03:25 PM
4

I'm not sure myself, but at a glance this looks like the type of binary thinking someone on the spectrum would take as gospel the moment it aligns with their lived experiences. There's, like, no nuance to be found here, and I'm trying lmao
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 03:23 PM
4

Is not treating someone like shit because you aren't attracted to them a sufficient condition to be partnered with someone you are attracted to?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 03:21 PM
3

And here we see a textbook logical fallacy- the appeal to Nature. Scientific fact is really being played fast and loose in this context, because science doesn't describe how human beings are supposed to function in a social or cultural context. Hell, science doesn't even say that women have an obligation to child-rearing even if they have the equipment for it, only that such outcome is one possibility of many.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 03:20 PM
5

Because men have been socialized since the first industrial revolution at least to believe that their obligation to the household is to keep a roof over everyone's head, while their wife does all the domestic labor. Those standards have not kept up with everyone being broke in 2026, but the amount of cultural inertia required to shift that paradigm is immense. Come on, feminists have discussed this already.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 03:16 PM
25

Oh now this is a Lilith classic. "Guys are alone because they refuse to contort themselves into something real women consider respectable," is a take I've seen circulating around this space at least once, and it's always been a braindead analysis of how people navigate desire. Let's try something different today. What is "decency," in this context? Because to be honest, this post reads like a tacit endorsement of lying to get what you want, and constructing a persona that would attract your idea…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 03:10 PM
1

The generic advice comes with a worldview, a fully articulated perspective on why that generic advice is so useful. That kind of coherence is attractive.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 02:54 PM
3

That type of fact is usually folded into larger schema, which is why it's so easy to be tied into ideas of hypergamy and walls and value over time
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 02:52 PM
4

Most human cognition revolves around having working models of how their environment functions in order to navigate it effectively. In developmental psychology, those models are called Schema, and it's a fairly common mechanism for integrating new ideas or perspectives into how one can make sense of the world around them.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 06:54 AM
3

I'd argue that the misogyny is less of an attractive feature than just having a reason things fail. A lot of dating advice outside of RP, BP spaces is just some variant of "keep trying- failure is inevitable- but keep trying anyways," and that can be maddening if someone's trying to figure out how to avoid mistakes or failure. The Redpill describes the dating game like its a minefield that can be successfully navigated if you apply yourself, and it describes a bevy of obstacles that someone's li…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 06:52 AM
2

Throwing a tantrum is an act though. By definition it's a choice being made of the same kind as to repress feelings of distress, or distract oneself with vapid diversions from the problem.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 06:46 AM
–

People try to define the parameters of the social contract all the time to justify someone else intervening on their behalf. It just seems louder when women say men should do shit because it brushes up directly against that old myth of being the protector provider of any relationship. Two different conversations are happening simultaneously about how men need to evolve and adapt to this new era, and how men still need to be the people stepping in when other men are on some BS. It's a uniquely an…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 06:30 AM
3

Because worth and obligation are two separate conversations. The worth of a person is not a declaration of what they deserve, and a declaration of what someone deserves isn't a demand that someone give it to them.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/26 07:29 PM
1

Nobody owes you shit. You are worthy of love in spite of this.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/26 07:19 PM
1

I disagree. Everyone is worthy of being loved, just like everyone is worthy of being treated respectfully.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/26 07:16 PM
–

I can't help but narrow my gaze on the myriad ways guys are socialized into being The Worst, and how often they're directly condemned for not breaking that conditioning of their own volition.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/26 06:40 PM
–

That is an altogether sticker part of the conversation to navigate. You can't say they consented to the relationship as an infant or toddler, but how many times in adulthood can you absolve someone of agency for recreating the patterns of their childhood?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/26 06:21 PM
–

"Decent shy men," was not the adjective he used. "Weak, shy, unmasculine men," was the description established. Decency never entered the equation
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/26 05:41 PM
–

He didn't accuse women of being hybristophiliacs. He said very explicitly that women will afford more sympathy for predators than weak men. There's a degree of difference in analysis there.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/26 05:00 PM
–

Or he only sees them as worth analysis in the immediate
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/26 04:44 PM
2

We're not having to argue that- you're choosing to take issue with a single point to avoid moving on. Even if I grant you that "not everyone is worthy of love," that doesn't form an especially compelling argument for "your unworthiness is your fault, and your obligation to change before you can expect anyone to love you."
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/26 01:28 PM
2

Do you know how value systems work? No values true in an objective sense, they're all subjective claims of worth. When I make a value claim, "everyone is worthy of love," it's not something that you can falsify by saying "well, I don't believe that so it can't be true." Besides, I had an entire second paragraph on why certain kinds of change are resisted by people being told they need to become someone else in order to be loved that you've blatantly ignored for at least three comments now.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/26 01:14 PM
–

Then why should mental health capacity, moral character, or intelligence be the standards we're engaging with here? People struggling in any or all of those categories can find love. That's part of what makes it so galling to fail.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/26 01:07 PM
2

Is there some sort of rebuttal in there, or do you only have appeals to revulsion against a fairly neutral position?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/26 01:06 PM
–

How are you drawing the conclusion on OP's desires?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/26 01:04 PM
–

Would my friends be less worthy of love if they were stupid?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/26 01:03 PM
4

Yes, yup, mhm, also yes, correct, and absolutely. I said everyone is worthy of love, not that people should be given Carte Blanche to harm and abuse others. You can love someone and oppose them.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/26 01:03 PM
–

Last I checked, you weren't asking about mental health, you were asking about "good morals." A person with good morals, a woman with good morals if we must be specific, can definitely fall in love with a murderer, depending on the murder.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/26 12:56 PM
4

I am of the opinion that everyone is worthy of love, and that to change oneself is to confirm that the version of you which exists presently is unlovable. There's a difference, in my experience, between changing oneself to be better and happier, and changing yourself to become loveable.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/26 12:54 PM
–

Depends on the murder really. I can think of a few friends who were seriously giving thought to marrying the party responsible for taking out the United Healthcare CEO.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/26 12:43 PM
–

It sounds like the point of objection here is that women will date assholes, not creeps, no? This isn't an incompatible claim with OP's, especially because OP isn't talking about serial killers, he's talking about rapists, who by definition don't have enough trouble getting in proximity to their targets to . . . You know, not be a rapist.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/26 12:41 PM
1

But what about all those men without a backbone in relationships? Did they just get lucky?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/26 12:37 PM
0

Well yeah. Many men are still navigating a society that no longer exists. Not even close to all of them, and even saying "most" is arguable, but it's not like men were just born into a new world order where they no longer need to cling to primitive norms. Women in those tiers of success don't struggle to find partners, because there's plenty of men willing to step into this brave new world, but it's a woman's game to choose partners, guys don't quite have the same luxury.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/26 02:46 AM
–

Common sense isn't true for that matter. It's the most readily available invocation of the bandwagon fallacy a person could imagine, but common sense has always fallen short of truth. Truth isn't as readily accessible a value to most people as "useful," and the blackpill is very useful.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/07/26 10:51 PM
–

This is comically funny in context. "The real black pill was made 20 years ago, and it's definition is fixed and unchangeable" Where did the term "incel" originate from? How common is its original definition in popular discourse?
/r/PurplePillDebate02/07/26 10:47 PM
–

So we know what a reductio ad absurdum is, right?
/r/PurplePillDebate02/07/26 10:43 PM
1

Which includes having a healthy relationship with their own emotional state, and a robust system of self-regulation, yes. That said, I don't see you advocating for guys to process their feelings here. This post reads like you telling them to shut up and keep pushing, which is, as stated earlier, deeply unfeminist on its face.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/07/26 06:51 PM
0

And is it better for feminists that they continue such behavior?
/r/PurplePillDebate02/07/26 06:35 PM
–

And yet, discussions on how arbitrary the gambling den is are seen as pointless winging.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/07/26 04:57 PM
5

That doesn't answer my question, boss. Should men be more devoted to patriarchal ideas of stuffing their feelings in a closet and withstanding pain?
/r/PurplePillDebate02/07/26 04:36 PM
2

Is it better for feminist causes for men to adhere more strictly or less strictly to patriarchal norms?
/r/PurplePillDebate02/07/26 04:29 PM
6

Right? It's just "if men believed they shouldn't be such bitches, they'd stop complaining about how rough they have it," There's layers to this one.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/07/26 03:37 PM
3

You haven't asked about my ideas, boss. You asked about beliefs and justification. If you want to talk about feminist ideas that would substantially improve the standing of men, that is a vastly different conversation.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/07/26 04:39 PM
3

Are you of the opinion that an egalitarian society is made up of fully disconnected struggles between disenfranchised groups?
/r/PurplePillDebate01/07/26 04:25 PM
1

We can track the belief system back together. What is the popular consensus on the differences between men and women?
/r/PurplePillDebate01/07/26 04:00 PM
1

The moral superiority of women is a consequence of their infantilization, bossman. The belief that women are lesser inherently lends towards ideas that they're less capable of making the hard decisions, which directly leads into the ideal of moral purity that you're railing against right now. Addressing the idea that women cannot lead directly addresses the idea that women cannot make the harder, crueler decisions of leadership, that they cannot be less empathetic than men.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/07/26 02:25 PM
2

You're expressing a painful amount of ignorance as to how affirmative action functions in regards to admission and hiring standards.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/07/26 02:21 PM
0

Is there a lot of immediate social utility in declaring men just as capable of empathy as women at the current juncture? Does it mitigate harm in any way comparable to the pervasive ideal that women cannot be trusted to lead because they're simply not cut out for it?
/r/PurplePillDebate01/07/26 02:19 PM
1

How so?
/r/PurplePillDebate01/07/26 02:17 PM
3

How are you drawing this conclusion?
/r/PurplePillDebate01/07/26 01:02 PM
1

I respect your opinion? I don't know, am I allowed to form a more complex opinion here?
/r/PurplePillDebate01/07/26 03:01 AM
1

What is your perspective?
/r/PurplePillDebate01/07/26 02:45 AM
2

Isn't gauging what people think and believe a faith based analysis? Material discussion of how society is informed and shaped doesn't often neatly conform to how people believe themselves to exist within that society. Just ask any member of the deep south who's convinced themselves that racism is over.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/07/26 12:18 AM
2

You've got it backwards boss. Manhood is defined by its opposition to femininity. That's why so many aspects of Manhood are shaped by "not being a bitch"
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 11:56 PM
6

Not quite. Acknowledging how systems arrange their hierarchies is the first step in recognizing how people have to navigate those intersecting systems. There's plenty of feminist history where black feminists have been consistently left in the lurch once the majority of an organization's demands have been met. Being a man doesn't stop you from being poor, being white doesn't stop you from being neurodivergent, and being a woman doesn't mean you don't hold power in other categories, but womanhood…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 11:04 PM
0

I feel like you're about two waves behind the discussion on what feminism thinks about gender and systems, my dude. Do you know what it means to exercise intersectional thinking in an anti-oppressive context?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 10:25 PM
2

If there were two issues to address, one that impacts the bottom of a pyramid, and one that impacts the top, would you expect the top of the pyramid to be given equal time and attention to as the bottom of the pyramid? If there is an issue, say, sexism in academia, that impacts one group of people more strictly than another, would you expect both groups of impacted people to be given equal amounts of attention for the sake of fairness, or would it be more prudent to focus on the issue with the m…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 08:47 PM
3

There is a difference between an expert and a layman, and that difference is in having a field of expertise. I wouldn't expect a professional basketball player to talk about baseball, just so I wouldn't expect a neurobiologist to discuss workplace culture beyond the bounds of, like, their workplace specifically.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 08:44 PM
3

Why would a fair feminist debunk equally issues with disproportionate outcomes?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 08:41 PM
1

What does not taking men's issues seriously look like to you?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 07:35 PM
1

It's a minor diversion into a subclaim- that feminists broadly don't care about men or their position under this current social order.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 07:03 PM
1

I recommend bell hooks, and Kimberlie Crenshaw as examples of feminist minds that have examined the ways in which men as a demographic are impacted by the pressures of the social system which is supposedly to our benefit. Judith Butler is also a solid mind on the subject, but her expertise is more in how gender itself serves that construct.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 06:39 PM
-2

You've never read bell hooks before have you?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 06:07 PM
-1

Etymology is a discussion for linguists, not renditions. I've done my best to focus the scope of the conversation on American Feminist Projects, because that's what I know, Ukraine or Korea's specific ordeals with their social order is a problem beyond my scope or influence. Within the bounds of the United States, Gender Parity still hasn't been achieved, and the most prevalent movement pursuing that goal isn't the Men's Rights Activists.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 04:57 PM
1

A feminist one is by definition egalitarian, and problems aren't resolved simply because they're invisible. It should be impossible to argue that parity between the genders exist when one of the most significant legal defenses for a woman's bodily autonomy was struck down in your lifetime, while there hasn't been a draft since your grandfather's, but I'm curious as to how you've drawn such a conclusion.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 04:48 PM
2

Do you know of any egalitarian social theories? Even rudimentary social science recognizes conflict theory as a constant tug of war between the classes with power in society and without. Feminism was established in an attempt to push against an already existing power imbalance, an imbalance which still persists today.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 04:40 PM
1

The "no means no" crowd is in shambles
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 03:57 PM
4

Could you expand on the differences there? Popular conceptions of feminism adhere to the opinion that men and women are inherently equal, so it stands to reason that feminism would by definition be in pursuit of that equality.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 03:51 PM
4

Why would a neurobiologist focusing on her field of expertise pick up fights in arenas outside of her specialty?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 03:49 PM
2

And yours represents the reasonable majority?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 02:09 PM
2

It's plenty evidence that all women don't agree with your claim.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 02:02 PM
1

What is happiness without consistent joy?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 07:21 AM
2

So we have a woman's perspective on this take, and it seems to have been poorly received. I wonder how far we can massage the premise until it's agreeable again
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 05:33 AM
0

I commend your good fortune on being unable to feel like Bear.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 01:47 AM
6

Out of all the possible responses, that one is deeply fucked up, but it's hard to read that response as coming from anywhere but his own insecurities.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 01:37 AM
2

I'd argue that Bear doesn't care enough to make the right choice. But that's a different beast entirely from not caring at all.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 01:33 AM
2

It's like an arms race of antipathy
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 01:14 AM
1

The closest we get to men living under constant anxiety over their perpetual state of surveillance is the debilitating insecurity of any incel who thinks the world around them is judging them for their failure. And ironically, when looking at conversations about that type of person, they are broadly considered pathetic, repulsive existences beneath desire. I can't think of a man who has ever been "too wanted" in history.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 12:16 AM
1

I admit to having genuine trouble seeing all of humanity. I don't really have a lot of time and effort to do so what with the crushing weight of capitalism, the omnipresent emotional labor of being black in the United States, the crippling incongruence of being neurodivergent in a society that rewards neurtypicality, and an endless deluge of people I'm unable to check in on or offer support or comeraderie to in their own unique struggles under the interlocking systems of patriarchy, capitalism, …
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 12:11 AM
7

This metaphor has some utility, but I think it doesn't accurately account for stakes.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 11:08 PM
2

Meeting people where they're at, I understand. My concern is that doing so is an exercise in duplicity.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 10:34 PM
0

This sounds dangerously close to masking. To forcing a mind or body into a shape that will be abided by society
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 10:26 PM
3

I agree that it's possible to have healthy access to water without drowning, yes.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 10:22 PM
6

Pussy isn't the point of metaphor, bossman. Human connection is what makes people human in the first place, and to be observed and regarded by others is to be connected to them.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 10:16 PM
3

This conversation would be greatly elevated by the perspective of someone who was initially socialized as a woman, only to enter the lived experience of men.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 10:13 PM
1

I already conceded that drowning sucks. That doesn't make dying of thirst better.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 10:11 PM
5

Is it better to die of dehydration or to drown? They both suck, in my opinion, but I imagine the average redpiller has far more experience dying of thirst than of having regular and consistent access to water.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 10:07 PM
1

I'd agree. Consistent access to joy is how I would define happiness, and that's in very short supply these days.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 09:20 PM
1

We'd spend a week quibbling over the difference between malice and despair, boss. You're the one making the claim. The burden of proof is on you.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 09:01 PM
-2

these posts should be like fortune cookies, except instead of "in bed," they should say "because of my sex drive" the locus of control is with y'all These are claims worth engaging with.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 07:46 PM
0

That's how engagement works yes. I interpret text, and engage with its implications.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 07:43 PM
-1

Are we advocating for castration here? Aggressive self-denial? Monastic abandonment of worldly desires? The way I see it, this reads like the tragedy of the golden rule. The desire of men guarantees they'll never be treated the way they want to be treated.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 07:41 PM
1

Recognition isn't the same as regard. Academically seeing a "human" isn't the same as acknowledging that humanity.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 06:57 PM
6

I don't think the absence of sadness is the presence of joy.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 06:07 PM
3

How many people on this sub are actually working though? Do we have those numbers?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 06:05 PM
4

Pfft. Talk about a romantic prisoners dilemma.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 06:04 PM
2

I think that dehumanization is a natural consequence of being in an environment where you have to engage with more people than you can count. You get sense-blind to information that isn't immediately relevant to you, and that's a normal way to navigate life, right? The difference between men and women in this sense is that men are socialized to assess every woman as a possible conquest. They're incentivised to see them, regard them, and process that information before making another step, especi…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 04:38 PM
3

Did I say "regarding each and every one of them as a sexual partner?" I said "regarding them," point-blank period. Failing to recognize someone as a person, for any reason, is still failing to recognize them as a person.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 04:23 PM
2

An argument exists that "seeing someone as unworthy of regard," is the same as "seeing someone as subhuman"
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 04:10 PM
0

Such as?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 04:05 PM
4

Regular humans can be malicious. Hell, early political philosophers presumed malice was closer to the truth of human expression, see any conversation on the "state of nature"
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 03:51 PM
-1

And it is worth noting, abusers have had relationships, by definition. Hell, by nature of their abuse, their relationships are harder to leave.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 03:24 PM
-1

Are you referring to the guys who fantasize about catching women at paternity fraud or guys who act like it's normal to put women through shit tests? Because I've got terrible news about the second category. Abusive partners typically do quite well in finding partners to abuse, and putting loyal women through shit tests is just one tool of many in that toolbox. It's absolutely normal to them..
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 03:06 PM
1

Fair enough. You have enough agency to pick and choose which standards you would like to uphold.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 02:51 PM
5

I'm referring in general to the list of tightropes presented. Is it to your benefit to exist in such contradictions?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 02:48 PM
3

Refer to the top of the thread
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 02:45 PM
9

Is it in your interest to uphold these two contradicting social protocols?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 02:44 PM
1

None of them?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 02:35 PM
0

Overwhelmingly? Now this might be the rosiest perspective I've ever seen on the subject.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 02:25 PM
2

take your rage for how hard life is and grow up. Not for nothing, but I wouldn't be especially inclined to trust someone who doesn't trust me to have real, understandable feelings. Attacks obviously make people more defensive than receptive.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 02:11 PM
2

This isn't quite an accurate assessment, as you can't account for what the other 3.5 billion women are aware of. You can't ignore something you don't know about, that would just be existing in ignorance. There's definitely not 3.5 billion women on this subreddit aware enough of this post to ignore it, but there are definitely millions of women subscribing to womenfluincers building a platform off laughing at how pathetic men are. Just like there's millions of men subscribing to redpill spaces an…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 01:58 PM
4

Does that stop one from being ignored or ridiculed?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 01:48 PM
2

why do men in this server shoot down the idea of professional intervention, and how does that interact with you complaining about someone whining on the internet? More immediately, if you're convinced this guy needs professional help, are you likely to convince someone to get help by browbeating them?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 01:47 PM
2

If I said Women were uniquely cruel, it would be misogynistic. Notably, that's not what I'm asserting. If anything, the assertion that women aren't cruel, or are incapable of cruelty, reads to me as deeply dehumanizing. Why would I put them on such a pedestal?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 05:10 AM
–

That was my point of confusion too. Culture and attachment are variables in the same equation, but that doesn't mean there's no marketing process to consider.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 04:33 AM
3

I thought misogyny was hatred or hostility towards women as a result of their gender. How the understanding of their cruelty as a response to systemic pressures or a culture that demands excessive emotional labor from them misogynistic?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 04:27 AM
2

Well isn't this cathartic. Did it feel good to write?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 04:19 AM
8

Are the only options being ignored or being ridiculed?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 04:17 AM
5

Which is well within their capacity. Hell, an argument exists that cruelty is well within their rights.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 04:14 AM
6

Women as a monolith?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 04:13 AM
3

Who doesn't like having enough power and influence to attract a reliable supply of partners? Women have it easy by just being able to call people they want to hang out with.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/26 11:52 PM
1

Why are you using "has contempt for you" in the "cannot prove there is contempt for you" example? You're pre-loading the hypothetical with your own conclusion there.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/26 11:15 PM
–

What would evidence a patriarchy in your estimation?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/26 03:58 PM
–

Every society in the world doesn't even agree on what assault is. But if that's the part that offends you, we can look at other metrics.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/26 03:55 PM
–

That sounds like a comprehension issue on your part, my guy.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/26 02:09 PM
4

This feels like a repeat of a prompt posted not even a week ago.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/26 01:54 PM
–

Never happened? Boss, if every girl over the age of 9 has some story about society looking her up and down like a piece of meat, and most women experience some form of assault or harassment before they're 30, then it seems like something is going on.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/26 11:59 AM
–

I do think there's a conversation to be had about how complicit women are in building the world men navigate, but that's more of an "everybody's screwing each other over," talk than a "women are the source of all the world's woes" talk. If memory serves, there are feminist texts addressing how mothers indoctrinate their sons into patriarchal belief systems to protect their children from being broken down outside the home, or how women strike patriarchal bargains within the system to secure their…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/26 05:08 AM
–

Presumably for similar reasons that abolitionists weren't in support of colorblind legalese. Some forms of bigotry and discrimination are only entrenched by a legal system that pretends those bigotries don't exist.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/26 04:39 AM
–

Feminists as a unified front, or feminists in disparate camps concerned with their own unique fights against systemic discrimination?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/26 04:34 AM
–

What those leaders do is far from representative of what their electorate wants. That's a wild claim to make for a number of reasons, not the least of which being that nobody is elected in a vacuum.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/26 04:30 AM
–

Have women held a legislative majority in any circumstances significant enough to blame them for the laws that get passed? I might be a little behind the times, but last I checked, most sitting government officials are dudes.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/26 04:25 AM
–

This feels like a depiction of a vicious cycle. Patriarchy threatens women. Women feel unsafe around men. Men feel offended women see them as dangerous, Patriarchy co-opts this grievance to justify dehumanizing women. Rinse, Repeat
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/26 04:21 AM
2

I'm not going to lie. This sounds like something very easy to lie about. Especially if someone already has to spend a nonzero amount of their days masking or feigning a personality. Investment is also a pretty easy thing to fake considering how often abusers choose selective disclosure as a manipulation strategy.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/26 09:26 PM
2

I'm having trouble wrapping my head around your solution with this in mind.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/26 09:17 PM
4

I think there's a conversation to be had about what one perceives to be beneficial versus what materially results in benefit. A lot of people make the choices they think will help them, only to lose out for any number of reasons.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/26 09:12 PM
2

Does that make good men, or better liars?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/26 09:08 PM
2

Maybe you'll have more success Maybe
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/26 07:48 PM
3

"Genuine?"
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/26 07:08 PM
–

Entitlement isn't the belief that you should have something. Entitlement is the belief that you're owed something. Bitterness over failure isn't feeling like you're owed success.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/26 05:50 AM
–

What if you get bitter but don't blame strangers? What if you blame strangers but don't insult them? Is being bitter, blaming strangers, and insulting strangers a complete list of the necessary markers for entitlement? Does the condition change if you don't do one or two of those? Edit- spelling
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/26 05:43 AM
1

What is the difference between desiring love and feeling entitled to it?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/26 04:31 AM
2

Waiting for a single comment on mindfulness or self-awareness when people are asked to quantify the presence of their thoughts and feelings.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/26 11:40 PM
4

This is a comical oversimplification. Say a guy got sex without any effort, every day, with nothing accompanying it. Their partner didn't share any interest, express any interest, or otherwise vocalize their character beyond bending over whenever the guy in question felt like getting some play. Do you think he'd be happy in that relationship in a week? A month? A decade? As a guy, I'd say after a long enough time, a question would become very apparent. "Am I wanted, or am I convenient?"
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/26 10:57 PM
3

Always nice to see someone failing a basic vocabulary quiz before throwing themselves into a conversation
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/26 10:52 PM
1

This isn't entirely correct. A large discussion of how that system disproportionately harms one party or another is how the imposition of gendered standards upon men is directly responsible for many of the grievances men have about being seen as people. It categorizes the harms inflicted upon both genders and recognizes the disproportionate outcomes that presently shape society in ways that are unfavorable to all but the most privileged among us. Modern intersectional thought even goes so far as…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/11/25 08:55 PM
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