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FM4M Archive

View 2 posts and 33 comments by FM4M on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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2

I added a note to the post. I adjusted data to demographic fits for age for support of feminism and political support where possible. It definitely doesn't capture everything, but it does capture a lot, and it didn't have a massive effect on the data.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/11/20 05:30 PM
2

I adjusted for both political representation and feminism based on population based samples from Harvard and Pew. You're correct that our demographics are different, but even after you adjust it doesn't make much difference.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/11/20 05:28 PM
3

Yeah I actually agree with you on that one and it was one of my larger concerns doing it. I collected some in survey (political and gender-related movement support) in survey and tried to correct for it based on demographic variables but Im sure there were misses. I think the larger gaps are still legitimate but the smaller ones are definitely suspect. I don't think this should ever be used as the sole reference for anything as a result
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/11/20 07:08 AM
2

Again. This only describes large changes. It is not accurate for small ones nor did I ever claim it was. I went out of my way to write smaller gaps as equal. 64% gaps do not disappear by adding in a couple hundred more people. In terms of professional polls. They do not poll thousands of people. After you scroll past a few large ones on top, if you look at 538's "latest polls" for senate races, after you expand so you have a decent sample size you'll see most are between 250-1000 respondents.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/11/20 06:51 AM
5

You do realize most polls only survey a few hundred people. They have margins of error (probably bigger than what they estimate) but they do capture the general trend correctly. Edit: Small gaps can easily disappear, which is why I specifically wrote anything under a 10% gap as being equal. When you have a gap of 64%, that is extremely unlikely to disappear by increasing the sample size.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/11/20 06:40 AM
1

Not allowing changes is a really good idea. Agreed on 4 & 5
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/09/20 03:17 AM
9

Some ideas: Demographics Gender identity Age Political identity TM Questions Do you believe "toxic masculinity" exists? (Yes, Unsure, No) If you believe it is exists, which of the following are toxic? (options, allows for multi-selection, are: Doesn't exist, Personal Strength, Power, Domination of others, Emotional repression, Grit, Playboy attitude). The benefit of this is it mixes traits that have been scientifically verified as healthy or neutral (strength, power, grit) with harmful ones (dom…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/09/20 03:21 AM
1

I mean the focus on self-improvement is the same but I think thats about it. Our traits have nothing to do with dating (outside of getting exercise, which will probably help your chances)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/09/20 12:44 AM
3

What Im talking about is basically this: https://www.reddit.com/r/MensLib/comments/hs7no9/discussion_should_we_be_using_the_term_toxic/ There's a lot of: 'well its not toxic but it could allow people to be toxic by making behavior we think is somewhat similar OK so we need to fight all of it and impose our version of masculinity.' type stuff
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 11:31 PM
1

What's TRP?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 10:28 PM
3

Eh, I think Men's Lib is less honest. They say they want men to have an option to live any way they want, but simultaneously espouse changing masculinity to remove support for being strong. Unless you don't want to be strong, its hard to work with people who think anyone who displays strength in any form is toxic. It doesn't mean I'm an MRA, I'm not, but the way Men's Lib treats masculinity they don't actively endorse leaves a lot to be desired.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 09:00 PM
1

Basically because of everything I said above. The idea that you can just say we should be free of them does not make you free of them--if we have a reason to believe norms naturally develop and assert themselves over time, if we expect them not to exist in the future we need a reason they won't reassert themselves.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 07:54 PM
1

Yep, I definitely did misread that in a couple places. Sorry. My point with the link was mostly that the norms didn't go away, they just flipped.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 06:24 PM
1

Copy paste from a response to a similar comment: If you look at the content between the two subs they are extremely different. Also, much like the MRA sub, this sub does not discuss these issues, nor does it offer anything equivalent to the traits linked above.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 06:20 PM
1

If you look at the content between the two subs they are extremely different. Also, much like the MRA sub, this sub does not discuss these issues, nor does it offer anything equivalent to the traits linked above.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 06:19 PM
1

Us. Im putting aside money from my saving for it. Or donations if we grow enough to start getting them.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 06:18 PM
1

I think thats actually fairly common. I've had a couple GFs like that. But what do you think people would have thought if you were genuinely waiting for marriage (or, say, being in a relationship for 2 years) before doing anything if you aren't a teen anymore? And in terms of overall data, here's what a quick google turned up: 1/2 of people (similar for men and women) in the UK feel pressured to lose their virginity before they're ready. Its not quite the same thing, but I think its fairly simil…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 06:16 PM
1

(Edit: I don't think norms can disappear long-term in our current structure). The porn norm disappeared, because, along with a bunch of other sexual norms, they got replaced. Instead of living in a chaste society that criticized sexuality before marriage, we live in a world that promotes sexuality explicitly. If you wait until marriage today you're likely to be labeled as a traditional conservative and judged for it. Im not saying one is right or wrong, just that the norm didn't go away, it just…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 04:50 PM
1

I appreciate what you're saying. I don't think its a stable state for society. We might be able to enjoy it for a generation or two, but it won't last long-term. Also, I'd argue that what is considered stupid vs not is mostly subjective and cultural. While I also think its dumb, if you had a time machine and asked someone in the 50s what they thought I bet you'd get a very different answer.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 04:29 PM
1

Hahaha that was great. Seriously though, just because we're focusing on something they don't bring up doesn't mean we automatically hate MensLib or MensRights. We don't see their message addressing this.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 04:25 PM
2

Im really glad it helped! Thats exactly what Im going for. And yeah, same on the MensLib type messaging.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 04:19 PM
1

That's part of what this is. Men don't only want to be soft. We're not telling anyone they have to follow this, its an option. Also, I think the movement for men who don't feel particularly strong and want to be released from any demands for that is Men's Lib.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 04:09 PM
1

Yeah I get where you're coming from. The problem is, at least as Stanford described it, norms are basically a standard behavior that is expected and self-enforced in a given group of people due to others expectations. As a result, I view it as basically norms always constrain people some. When they don't, they often disappear (ie not watching porn). As a result, Im saying I think if we equalize norms where it matters, we can create more freedom elsewhere without it resulting in oppression of one…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 08:22 AM
1

Yeah basically. I think we'll always have some norms (over the long-run, in the short run you can get rid of them) and if you want to avoid them you have to either live in a post-scarcity society or actively work at it (which I also think will eventually fail but could last for a while). I don't think we can just turn off or ignore norms like that over the long-run, but to my knowledge its never been studied so I can't say for sure. And sort of, yeah. My theory is basically if we work out resour…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 08:04 AM
1

Definitely agreed we don't need norms to function. They are mostly culturally constructed (IMO). My whole argument is that we can't keep norms from being structured in our current society. If we could, the idea of norm abolition sounds great! I think what you're getting at later on in what you're saying is where Im trying to go with this. The idea is basically that being strong, etc. should be included in whatever we consider normal for men in the future, not that we should force people into it!…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 07:41 AM
1

Its a good question, and one I've thought about a lot. The problem is we don't have enough high quality data to absolutely answer it, as far as I can tell. That said, I still think there's a likely answer. The problem is norms are shown to follow a Nash Equilibrium--it means they aren't necessarily good but once set, they are stable. The question then is can we prevent norms from forming. There's no concrete answer, however I personally believe there's a pretty likely one. Basically we have good…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 07:11 AM
6

Thats fair. Its possible I, and the other people I've spoken to/worked with on this have a skewed world view based on where we live (its a fairly far left-leaning area. The dominant view here is Men's Lib). I, and others, have seen and experienced it and seen it in the media and some surveys as well which is the basis for the viewpoint. Thats part of why I added the next sentence about masculinity being seen as toxic by certain groups. Once the funds come together, the plan is to do a survey to …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 06:53 AM
2

Hey that sounds good. I edited mine also to add a disclaimer. Thanks for taking the time to look! Also, I went back and read comments. Im sorry you're taking heat for this, I didn't mean to create that (Im not the one downvoting you fwiw). I think its a complex question and there isn't one correct answer here. Views that aren't based on good science do tend to get under my skin more than they should because I think its a really important topic. I think its cool that you're open to hearing other …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 06:44 AM
2

That's fair, I'll definitely put a note on my comments, its not fair to blanketly criticize something I haven't seen the entirety of. However, I do think the criticisms are accurate. The segment I watched around the 40 minute mark he specifically calls himself a gender abolitionist and says men should be able to do "whatever the fuck they want". I'll definitely add the note, but I do think it indicates that he fundamentally believes our society will exist in a stable state without natural constr…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 06:32 AM
4

Hey inbetween you commenting and me seeing your comment, I watched a little more and edited my comment above. The detail he goes into isn't based on fact or evidence--its just him ranting. If you look at the science, what he describes aren't often used to define masculinity, and its not what is considered toxic. In fact the head of the APA Men's guidelines said they weren't trying to change men being strong, powerful or courageous. Basically this guy went out and ranted about stuff he knows noth…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 06:11 AM
7

Found it. Its basically an hour of some gamer guy ranting about toxic masculinity. That doesn't have much to do with our version of masculinity. Read the traits link. Edit: I went back and watched a little more (disclaimer, I have not watched the whole thing). He doesn't seem to have done much research but still holds very strong opinions. He seems to be under the impression that no norms will develop that define and affect men's actions. That so long as we believe no norms will develop that we'…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 05:41 AM
14

Im not really an MRA so I can't say for sure. My impression when I looked at MRA material like r/MensRights is they weren't really discussing or focused on any of this. There's a lot about men can be fathers and circumcision and feminism, but not much on success, men connecting or masculinity in general, although there are definitely a few posts. I think MRAs might be supportive in general of what we're talking about, but they're two different domains. We focus more on gender roles and (outside …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 05:15 AM
3

Thanks! Thats good to hear.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 04:15 AM
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