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Icarus367 Archive

View 7 posts and 527 comments by Icarus367 on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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1

No: women feel betrayed when an ostensibly platonic male friend expresses feelings for her only if she doesn't reciprocate those feelings. It may be the case that she doesn't feel betrayed, but if she does feel that way, it's almost certain that she doesn't feel the same way about him. It's almost never the case that she does reciprocate those feelings but declines to pursue a relationship with him on the grounds of the betrayal. Again, I invite you to become acquainted with the distinction betw…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/25 03:54 PM
1

I'm not a girl.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/12/25 06:23 AM
1

You're still missing the logical distinction between "if" and "only if." A couple of examples: (1) I eat if I'm hungry: if I'm hungry, I'm not not eating. But it doesn't follow that I eat only if I'm hungry: I may well eat at other times, too (e.g. when I'm just bored or whatever). (2) I eat only if I'm hungry: if I'm not hungry, then I'm not eating. But it doesn't follow that I necessarily eat when I am hungry: I may well be hungry and yet forego eating. See the difference?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/25 01:44 PM
1

I'm describing a particular sort of friendship, in this case between women and men in whom the woman isn't romantically interested. I'm not engaging with the second sentence, as it's a pointless ad hominem.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/25 01:40 PM
3

Women simply don't want to be asked out by unattractive men, and so sometimes attach negative moral judgments to such men making an attempt.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/25 01:52 AM
1

How is it in any way relevant to OP? Please explain.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/12/25 09:18 PM
1

You don't appear to actually know. A red herring is an irrelevant distraction or attempt to change the subject, which is what you're doing here. Having said that, women can solve that problem by not sleeping with men until they're in a committed relationship. If it's mutually understood that there's no strings attached, then oh well.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/12/25 07:31 PM
1

Again, there is a difference between "if" and "only if" in the context of logic. I nowhere said that all women would consider that a betrayal.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/12/25 07:17 PM
0

That's not what red herring means.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/12/25 07:15 PM
-1

This would seem to be a red herring.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/12/25 11:18 AM
0

Perhaps, but I did say "only if", and not "if." There is a distinction.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/12/25 02:56 AM
1

No, I wouldn't make a value judgment, certainly not a negative one. I'd have been deeply shocked if any of my male friends had had feelings for me, as they were all straight AFAIK, but I wouldn't consider it a betrayal. (I've had gay male acquaintances with whom I was friendly, but not really friends, per se. Not because they were gay, mind you, just because I happened not to be friends with them.)
/r/PurplePillDebate10/12/25 02:54 AM
0

That's unfortunate about your friendship, and I'm glad you yourself didn't feel "betrayed." However, at least some women do feel that way in such circumstances (including a few on this very thread).
/r/PurplePillDebate10/12/25 02:27 AM
6

Women just don't want to be asked out by undesirable men, and thus create a byzantine, elaborate, and near-ritualistic set of rules for unattractive men. Attractive men, of course, can do whatever.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/12/25 02:25 AM
-2

In other words, they thought they found a neutered, asexual sort-of man who they could bare their feelings to, but would never want to fuck. And they only feel hurt/betrayed when a guy to whom they're not attracted expresses interest after a period of apparently purely platonic friendship. Conversely, when a guy to whom they are attracted expresses interest, it's "Great! Me, too! Let's fuck."
/r/PurplePillDebate10/12/25 02:24 AM
1

Not necessarily. For one thing, people aren't always available at the same time (one or both might be in a relationship), they may be in a type of relationship in which romantic entanglements would be inappropriate (student/teacher, subordinate/supervisor), etc.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 09:11 PM
0

Thank you for your answer. It is well thought out.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 08:31 PM
2

Ok, but I will reiterate my question: if she happened to feel the same about him, would she still find it to be "manipulative and gross"? If not, then you're pretty much in agreement with my OP. I appreciate you bringing some gender parity to this, though, in saying you'd judge a woman's actions similarly.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 07:03 PM
3

"The only time I feel like a woman would feel betrayed by a friend showing interest in her would be if it felt like the only reason he was even friends with her was to try to date her. Makes her feel like she was being used by this person since their whole relationship was based off of his ulterior motives from the start. It's just a manipulative and gross thing to do." What if she happened to feel the same about him? Are you maintaining that, under such a scenario, she would still find it to be…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 06:52 PM
1

Oh, I agree that people (men and women) can be polite under such circumstances. But, some women do regard it as a "betrayal," and that's what my OP addresses.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 06:37 PM
2

There are situations in which he didn't just "happen to develop feelings," but had romantic inclinations from the start, and began an ostensibly platonic friendship with her in the hopes of her one day reciprocating those feelings. The OP is probably more geared towards those types of scenarios.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 06:09 PM
1

Yes, it happens. And I maintain that the particular value judgment that women consequently assign to these men's actions (i.e. whether or not he has thereby "betrayed" the friendship) is heavily determined by whether or not she reciprocates those feelings, and not by the man's actual behavior, which one would think would generally be the source of a value judgment.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 05:59 PM
1

What doesn't happen in real life? That men sometimes make romantic overtures to their platonic female friends, and that sometimes the object of their affection reciprocates that attraction, and sometimes she doesn't? This isn't a particularly outlandish scenario.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 05:40 PM
1

How is it relevant? The OP pertains to different men being judged differently for the same actions. You pointing out that men are different, and have different relationships with women is irrelevant. If I told you that, for instance, black people are given heftier sentences than white people for committing the same crimes under virtually the same circumstances, of what use is it to say that every individual is different, their crimes were not exactly identical, etc? We're abstracting those diffe…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 05:23 PM
1

All of which is true, and none of which is relevant to the topic.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 05:19 PM
1

Sigh. That women are more likely to judge a heretofore ostensibly platonic friend's romantic overtures as a "betrayal" (i.e. a particular value judgment) if she's not likewise attracted to him vs. if she is likewise attracted.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 05:18 PM
1

There is some variation in what's considered attractive, but there's also a considerable degree of consensus. Such preferences are not wholly idiosyncratic, especially as it pertains to physical attraction specifically. And my point is that whether or not she reciprocates those feelings will heavily influence her judgment as to whether or not the man "betrayed" her or otherwise transgressed some boundary in secretly harboring romantic feelings for her under the guise of an ostensibly platonic fr…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 05:16 PM
1

What's unrealistic about it?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 05:13 PM
2

Huh? I assure you I actually believe what I argued in OP. Your point is a non-sequitur.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 05:07 PM
1

No, the OP explicitly pertains to different men engaging in the same behavior with the same feelings, and being judged differently based on whether the subject of their feelings reciprocates those feelings or not.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 05:06 PM
2

I've given what I believe are well-reasoned responses to many of the posts in this thread, in some cases explaining why I believe they're wrong, and where we might agree. If that's not "debating," then I don't know what is.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 04:57 PM
1

Even if I did have a problem with it, it's largely irrelevant to the debate as outlined in the OP. My point is that women find it "bad" only if they're not attracted to the man/men. Again, it comes back to the issue of assigning different value judgments to different men for the same behavior.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 04:55 PM
2

I'm sorry..."no" what?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 04:54 PM
1

I suppose, why not? (I don't see how your question pertains to the topic, but I'll indulge you anyway in case it's relevant in a way I can't see.)
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 04:51 PM
2

I don't know that I want anything in particular. I'm offering up a view of mine for debate and discussion.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 04:50 PM
1

No. You're missing the point. It's not merely about whether or not she reciprocates his attraction, it's about the value judgment that she tends to assign depending on whether or not she does reciprocate it, in that she's more likely to deem it a "betrayal" of their friendship in cases of non-reciprocation. Women are free to be interested or not in wherever their inclinations point them, but it's problematic when unattractive men are judged more harshly for doing the same thing, and harboring th…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 04:49 PM
1

Why is appraising value judgments childish and pointless? I'd say the determination of an action's wrongness or not is a very important topic. And I'd argue that the topic completely appropriate to the sub. I'd say you're the one having trouble understanding.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 04:46 PM
2

Where did I say that I expect women to desire (or pursue) a relationship with someone in whom they're not interested?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 04:42 PM
2

It's about men whom she finds attractive vs. men whom she doesn't find attractive and how she'll render different value judgments for the same actions and feelings on his part in the two cases.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 04:39 PM
1

Again you miss the point. It's not merely about reacting differently under such scenarios, it's about assigning different value judgments. Do you understand what a "value judgment" is, and how it differs from, say, a mere aesthetic appraisal?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 04:37 PM
1

Except the only thing that's different in such cases is whether she's attracted to the man or not. Of course she will react differently in some ways in those cases, and that's to be expected, but women also tend to assign different value judgments in such cases. That is, a given pair of men may be judged more or less harshly for the same actions and feelings, with the only differentiating factor being how attractive they are. I'm talking about a highly specific type of reaction on her part.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 04:23 PM
3

I don't see where I'm disingenuous. The scope of this discussion, as clearly outlined in the OP, is in the context of ostensibly platonic male/female friendships. Regarding your third paragraph, do you believe it's generally the case or not that women tend to consider it a "betrayal" when an ostensibly platonic male friend makes romantic overtures to her in cases where she reciprocates those feelings? And, if women's reactions are consistent across both scenarios, that her reaction is typically …
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 04:20 PM
2

I don't know that I agree that men typically assign negative value judgments to ostensibly platonic female friends who harbor unexpressed romantic inclinations towards them.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 04:15 PM
0

So, there's a double standard in place for attractive vs. unattractive men.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 04:13 PM
1

I agree that unattractive people (men and women) generally have it harder than their attractive counterparts, but that's not really germane to the debate, unless you wish to maintain that it's in fact acceptable that attractive people are judged more leniently than unattractive ones, at least under certain scenarios. "Also, how do you know women only consider it a betrayal if the guy isn’t attractive? Are you some sort of omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent being who is able to see the complex e…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 04:00 PM
4

I agree that some people are missing the point here.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 03:54 PM
1

Ok, but I don't think the why needed much explanation, lol.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 03:36 PM
2

So...my OP is correct?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 03:26 PM
9

"All people" are put off by a person to whom they're unattracted expressing interest in them? This would seem an overbroad generalization. I can't say I agree. Regarding your second point, no, women only consider it a "betrayal" if they're not also attracted to him. But why should the scenarios be judged differently? In both cases, the man "implied from the beginning" that they were merely platonic friends. Even if she's equally attracted to him, he "betrayed" her just the same. So, why should t…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 03:19 PM
4

I get you, but their positions in such a scenario are a bit different if the man was the more active party in initiating and/or sustaining their ostensibly platonic friendship. Remember, it's not merely the romantic feelings which constitute the "betrayal" in women's eyes, it's the actions the man undertook in the course of initiating their friendship. (She may view things differently if she was the more active party in initiating their friendship.)
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 03:11 PM
3

So, I take it you are ok with different value judgments being rendered for attractive vs. unattractive men? Is it therefore permissible to render different value judgments on attractive vs. unattractive women?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 03:09 PM
10

It's not merely about reciprocation, it's about a value judgment that the man was dishonest or betrayed her, a value judgment which is more likely to be rendered in cases where she doesn't reciprocate that attraction. It's fine if she acknowledges his feelings, states frankly that she doesn't share them, and they continue being friends (or not, if it's too awkward). But it's quite another thing to maintain that the man has done something wrong. And your comment about women being "put off" by men…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 03:08 PM
8

You can look no further than this sub, and even this thread, to know that at least some women do consider it a betrayal and a dishonest ploy.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 03:01 PM
34

Yes, but the man is somehow supposed to convey romantic intentions up front while not yet explicitly making romantic moves, and only make such a move when the time is right. If they move too soon, they're apparently only interested in the woman's superficial traits. But if they wait too long before conveying romantic interest they're squarely in the friend zone, and are "betraying" her by attempting to move out of that zone. (Note: only applies to unattractive men.)
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 03:00 PM
7

Whether a male/female pair of friends can remain friends in a scenario of unrequited unilateral romantic affection is an open question; I would think it'd make things awkward, to say the least. However, the point of my debate is that the value judgment that women make to a man's romantic feelings can differ based on whether or not she finds him attractive, as well.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 02:56 PM
6

My point, though, is that this "sort of a lie" will easily be overlooked or forgiven by the woman if she feels the same way about him. It almost certainly will not be the case that she'll acknowledge her reciprocal attraction to him but also say she's not in a position to pursue a romantic relationship with him on the grounds that he "lied" to her and "betrayed" their friendship.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 02:48 PM
12

I'm not claiming that people don't or shouldn't date people to whom they're attracted. My point is that when a heretofore ostensibly platonic male friend makes romantic overtures, the woman is likely to consider it a "betrayal" of their friendship only if she doesn't reciprocate his romantic feelings. That is, the value judgment is different in cases in which she is interested vs. those in which she's not interested. And given that she's less likely to be attracted to a generally undesirable man…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 02:46 PM
1

Don't forget "be handsome."
/r/PurplePillDebate25/11/25 02:03 AM
2

Women simply don't want to be approached by unattractive guys. It's not so much the case that different women have different rules, it's that any given woman tends to apply different rules to attractive and unattractive guys.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/11/25 10:37 PM
1

Women already do plenty of approaching. They just approach men to whom they're attracted. As OP says, unattractive men will be left in the dust, no matter what. They're still going to be rejected when they approach, and women typically won't be approaching them.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/11/25 03:25 PM
2

Decorative pillows are the bane of my existence.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/11/25 03:14 PM
3

I once asked my wife to preheat the oven to 350, and she didn't know how to do that. I know plenty of guys who cook.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/11/25 03:11 PM
1

For a man, attractiveness vis a vis sense of humor is probably as follows: handsome + funny > handsome + not funny > not handsome + funny > not handsome + not funny
/r/PurplePillDebate07/11/25 04:41 PM
5

I believe you when you speak about your preferences, and you certainly shouldn't be dismissed or delegitimized. However, for one thing, I think some women are somewhat disingenuous in stating their preferences and in fact downplay the importance of physical traits in interpersonal attraction, and for another there was a reason I responded to the person I did, and not directly to you. From the relatively uncontroversial statement that attraction is subjective, some people (not necessarily yoursel…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/25 05:57 PM
6

Exactly. Preferences being subjective doesn't entail that they're equally distributed among the population pool. It can be the case that preferences are subjective and people tend to form at least a rough consensus about who is attractive and who isn't (with a fair bit of variation and room for disagreement). Let's not pretend that an equal number of women find, for instance, Henry Cavill and Michael Moore hot.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/25 03:43 PM
0

Not to respond via a tu quoque, but aren't men's preferences also demonized? If men prefer younger, thinner women, for instance, aren't they labeled as body shamers and predators, and so forth?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/25 03:41 PM
1

Except men generally don't lie by downplaying the importance of physical attraction, whereas women do downplay it. Men are at least honest about being shallow, and therein lies the difference.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/25 02:30 PM
–

Cold approaching can work...if the guy's good-looking. Then again, most any type of approach can work if the guy's good-looking. There are in effect different rules for ugly guys and hot guys.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/02/25 06:03 PM
1

A few women have said that, and I'm not 100 percent certain it was her, actually, so I'm going to delete that post.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/02/25 11:52 PM
8

Bingo. There was that viral video of that girl on TikTok asking where are all of the men without "hoes," and the video in response basically saying, "You ignore those guys!"
/r/PurplePillDebate12/02/25 11:40 PM
–

I'm fairly certain she was the one with the heroic story about how she once dated an ugly guy and he was an asshole, so now she only dates hot guys.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/02/25 11:31 PM
2

Yeah, I mean, pretty much everyone wants an attractive partner, hence the concept of "settling."
/r/PurplePillDebate12/02/25 07:20 PM
2

Sorry, I'm not getting what you mean here. The phrasing/syntax of your post is difficult to understand. Are you saying something to the effect that ugly women tend to believe themselves to be more attractive than they are, and thus are reticent to date ugly men?
/r/PurplePillDebate12/02/25 06:41 PM
2

This scenario is a bit stark, it seems to me. Ugly guys can get women, they just tend to get ugly ones. Ugly people sometimes do settle for each other, and people sometimes do legitimately have idiosyncratic aesthetic tastes.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/02/25 06:29 PM
1

This. A lie of omission is a type of lie.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/25 11:37 AM
1

Yes, it's about MORE than just looks, but it's still about looks.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/25 04:16 PM
–

When women say they prefer personality trait "X" in a man, they are in effect saying they prefer a handsome man who is "X." They just don't say the quiet part, and when later challenged on it, say of course looks are very important!
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 09:30 PM
1

I'm ignoring the implied insult and will focus instead on the substance of your post, of which there is little, unfortunately. Once more: You said women don't approach men (not "ugly men," just "men"). I said this claim is false, and that women do in fact approach men, provided they're good-looking. You said of course women don't approach ugly guys, because why would they? So, once again, your initial statement that women don't approach men is false: it is accurate to say they don't approach phy…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/25 09:08 PM
1

Ok, so you have no response. Noted.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/25 08:18 PM
1

I don't know what this is supposed to mean. I take it you intend it as being dismissive of a rebuttal that you perhaps hear often, but in that case I will be equally dismissive of the "confidence is attractive" trope, which has little to no basis in reality. Confidence per se is not attractive, it often times come from being attractive. And people who have confidence, but are otherwise unattractive, are still just...unattractive.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/25 08:16 PM
1

Guys who lack looks and height will quickly learn that no matter how good they feel about themselves, women aren't very interested in dating them. Your advice seems to skirt perilously close to the "confidence is attractive" adage. Attractive people are confident because they've received the positive feedback to be that way. An unattractive confident person is just seen as...well, unattractive. And the confidence may even be off-putting in that case, and be perceived more as "arrogance."
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/25 07:47 PM
1

"Outliers"? You seem to be treating it as some rare event that women approach men. Attractive men practically have women fighting over them in some cases. To be clear, I make no representation that women approach men at the same frequency with which men approach women, nor do I believe that women approach all men: only the best-looking/most desirable ones tend to get approached. You don't even seem to disagree with this position, since your rejoinder was not to deny that good-looking men get app…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/25 07:06 PM
1

My point has been very consistent and clear: you said women don't approach men. I said you were wrong, in that women do in fact approach men. I added the caveat that women generally only approach good-looking men, and then you went off on a strange tangent asking what use you'd have for ugly guys, etc. If there's confusion here, it's on your part, not mine, because I honestly don't see what you're not getting.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/25 04:08 PM
1

Women often lie about their preferences as a form of virtue signaling. They may say they want a man who is kind, intelligent, humorous, and so forth, but these factors are largely irrelevant in developing interpersonal attraction for women. They mostly just want good-looking guys, and if the guy is bald or short or whatever, it's "too bad, we're allowed to have preferences." On the other hand, if men don't celebrate the beauty of obese women or say that they prefer women under 30 years old, they…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/25 03:04 PM
1

You've approached thousands of women? How do you even have time to do that?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/25 12:48 AM
1

You said women "don't approach men." I rebutted that statement by saying it's false: women do in fact approach men, albeit only the good-looking ones. My comment is not pointless: it's directly refuting your claim that women don't approach men. Not all women approach men, of course, but some do. Not all men approach women, either. I added the qualifier that women approach good-looking men. I'm not suggesting that all men get approached.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/25 09:39 PM
1

I'm not sure the point of your question, since I said women don't approach unattractive guys. You said that "we" ("we" being women) don't approach men. You didn't say "we" don't approach unattractive men. I don't know what women would approach ugly guys for, since they don't seem to approach them at all, at least not to flirt or hit on them.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/25 07:27 PM
–

Overweight people settle for each other. Mystery solved.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/25 03:37 AM
–

This. ^ It's why experiments have control groups.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/25 03:36 AM
1

This is false. Women absolutely approach men, albeit only a small subset of them, usually the good-looking ones.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/25 03:09 AM
–

I mean, women can still be told to choose better when they date a physically unattractive asshole. But yes, if a woman's dating a guy who turns out to have a shit personality, I think the presumption is generally that the guy's good-looking, given that (1) he was deemed dateable for at least a while (until his personality became too much to take), and that (2), let's be honest, women will put up with much more assholery from a guy who's hot, and so if the ugly guy were an asshole, the relationsh…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/25 02:55 AM
1

I read a comment recently from one of the feminist women subs about the problem with modern dating, where they explained how women today have a choice between two groups of men, one group consists of men who are out of shape, unkempt, unhygienic, lack social skills, and are not financially stable, whereas the second group of men are really well put together, attractive, charming and you can choose to be part of his rotation of 7 women he bangs [bolding added]. If the thread's content is as you d…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/25 02:43 AM
3

Women definitely care about looks even after the age of 25, and well thereafter. Not to be sarcastic, but this isn't the 1800s, where 25 is considered an advanced age to be unmarried.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/25 06:01 PM
3

I never said hot people can't be kind. My point is that a guy who is kind, considerate, and intelligent, but also ugly, is most likely going to struggle far more to find dates/sex/romance than a hot guy who embodies none of those characteristics. A hot guy who does embody those characteristics may well have an edge over the hot guy who doesn't, but for a guy who doesn't meet the looks threshold, it's irrelevant. The most that that guy will probably get is a ticket to the friend zone.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/25 05:50 PM
4

Part of the problem is that this generation of men (and perhaps earlier generations, as well) have been gaslit into thinking that female attraction is not primarily driven by physical features such as looks, height, physique, etc. They are led to believe that women value traits such as honesty, kindness, intelligence, and so forth in their romantic relationships, when this is not the case. Women either don't care about those traits at all, or only do so after the man has qualified from a physica…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/25 04:03 PM
3

The data disagrees with what, exactly?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/25 03:40 PM
1

There's "a lot" men can do to not be ugly? What, pray tell, might this be? If a guy's ugly due to unfortunate bone structure, then there's virtually nothing to be done about it, never mind a lot which can be done about it. As for women being attracted to "reasoning skills"...I don't even know what to do with that. Women are attracted to hot men; if the guy is ugly, but is a Nobel-prize winning physicist or published academic, it matters not one iota.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/12/24 05:39 PM
3

Sure, there will be a contingent of shallow men who are good looking enough to get some shallow attention from shallow women from time to time who are totally uninteresting, but that's rare. Most men are not that, and most women are not looking for that, despite what the manosphere would lead you to believe. It's not just shallow good-looking men who get attention from women, it's good-looking men generally, whether they're deep, shallow, or whatever. And being "interesting" matters only insofar…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/12/24 04:57 PM
1

If it's any consolation, he may well have thought you were out of his league, but was just shooting his shot anyway. You miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take, and all that...
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/24 12:08 AM
18

When something you don't care about ( especially if doesn't on second inspection improve your life in any way) tries to get your attention your response is disgust. Many women don't even see undesirable men as sexual beings: they're biologically male, but, in the eyes of those women, those men aren't socially or sexually male. Therefore, when one of those undesirable males makes any sort of romantic or amorous advance towards the woman, they view it as akin to their cousin asking them out on a d…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/12/24 09:49 PM
1

Some women actively seek out hot convicted murders such as Joren van der Sloot, will write them letters, and even have conjugal visits with them. Besides men commenting on how some crazy women like the Doll (or Jody Arias or what have you) are attractive, I don't know how many men are actually seeking them out for conjugal visits or corresponding with them in prison.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/12/24 04:47 PM
2

Not necessarily. It is possible to just be ugly without being deformed.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/12/24 03:41 AM
4

Women like good-looking bad boys, just as they like good-looking good boys. It's not that they like bad boys per se.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/12/24 03:31 PM
–

Perhaps after 18 or so years of raising a child, they do consider the child "theirs." Genetics isn't everything, and whatever ill feelings they might understandably feel towards the mother for cuckolding and lying to them, those feelings needn't necessarily translate to the child.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/11/24 10:08 PM
1

With a big, veiny cock.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/11/24 10:23 AM
1

You have no idea what you're talking about. I've stated my opinions/views on this sub many times. (I also note your misogynist insinuation that women don't take the lead and stand by their own opinions and beliefs, as to not do so is supposedly feminine.) If you want to give me a substantive question to answer, then I'll answer it. If someone wants to ask me about women acting "masculine," then they'll have to provide more information. I did note, however, that prima facie a "masculine" woman do…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/11/24 10:16 PM
0

Ok. There's just not enough specificity to answer the question, then.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/11/24 06:58 PM
3

So, she, what? Has sex with women? Plays video games? Watches football? Your description is so vague it makes your question difficult to answer.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/11/24 06:50 PM
-1

What does "masculine" mean in this context?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/11/24 05:51 PM
0

I don't want a "masculine" woman. Otherwise A sounds better.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/11/24 05:23 PM
–

This. Women may even be outright offended when unattractive guys try to pick them up, as they feel it devalues them in some way. "THAT guy thought he had a chance with ME?"
/r/PurplePillDebate03/11/24 02:33 PM
–

Sure, women like it. Just as long as you're good-looking and don't do or say anything insane. Otherwise you're a "creep". That's pretty much it.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/11/24 02:21 PM
7

Even if many women aren't into casual sex, enough of them are that you shouldn't have much trouble getting it if you're an attractive guy. I've certainly seen it happen plenty of times.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/11/24 02:09 PM
2

I agree that hotness for women is largely genetic, as well.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/24 10:45 PM
1

Ok, but you did say that the concept of presenting in front of a room was "absolutely terrifying" for the socially inept. My profs at college didn't generally seem terrified when presenting, and I'm sure plenty of them were socially inept and/or ASD. I didn't say it was a dealbreaker for all women, I just don't think that posting one's HS science fair trophy on a dating app profile is the best move. Be that as it may, being good-looking trumps nearly all else, so if the guy's as photogenic as hi…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/24 08:57 PM
3

Being short definitely poses challenges in the dating world, but I've said before, and continue to believe, that short guys can do ok provided they're good-looking. Tall and good-looking of course have the ultimate advantage, but it's probably better to be short and hot than tall and ugly, at least in my observation. (Of course, this doesn't apply if short guys are being filtered out on an app before the woman even sees that they're hot, so this may apply more IRL). The order is probably: Tall &…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/24 08:54 PM
1

I beg to disagree. There are tons of socially inept profs at universities out there, plenty of whom are on the autism spectrum. Presenting technical information in front of an audience, and being smooth and charming in social settings are two different things (there is of course, some overlap there, though). And being "nerdy", even in an academic sense, absolutely is a dealbreaker for some women.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/24 08:50 PM
2

Ok. I wish him nothing but luck.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/24 06:47 PM
3

Not advocating for dishonesty in any way, but science fair trophy screams "nerd", and being a nerd is a turnoff for women. (Don't get me wrong: I have the highest respect for scientists, and it'd be great if women mobbed famous physicists the way they mob famous athletes and actors, but we don't live in that world.)
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/24 06:28 PM
13

A lot of women just lie. They say there are "no good men" out there, but what they really mean is they can't land a top-tier man. Other men are virtually invisible to them. They also lie about what they're looking for in a partner, as looks >>>>> everything else, but they virtue signal and claim they want a guy who's intelligent, kind, considerate, generous, etc, but these things are either irrelevant, or matter only when he's met the looks threshold.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/24 05:11 PM
2

If a guy's 5'7", he's almost certainly never going to play in the NBA, no matter how hard he works. That's not pessimism, that's realism. Likewise, if a guy is short and not conventionally handsome, he's most likely going to struggle in the dating world. Not that no short and/or ugly guys find love, of course, only that it's a much steeper climb. People seem to elide nuance in these types of threads: it's not black or white, it's a matter of probabilities. And if you don't believe me, listen to …
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/24 04:46 PM
5

You seem to be borderline obsessed with Pete Davidson. Yes, rich, famous celebrities can punch above their weight with regard to dating, even if they're ugly, sometimes with other celebrities. Mel Brooks married Ann Bancroft, Michael Douglas married Katherine Zeta Jones. This is hardly news. It doesn't disprove the zillions of other examples of ugly guys being turned down by women on the basis of looks, mostly because most men aren't celebrities. Even ugly women want hot guys. Maybe they'll sett…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/24 04:24 PM
7

Again, I'm not ignoring Pete Davidson! JFC: he's a rich and famous celebrity. Most guys are not rich and famous celebrities. Women are attracted to looks, wealth, and status. They're not attracted to the things they often claim to be attracted to. Things such as being "interesting," kind, generous, considerate, liking long walks on the beach, and being a good listener, and the rest of the crap that women like to talk about either matter not at all, or are distant behind looks. And thank you for …
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/24 04:11 PM
8

You were talking about shortness and ugliness. Um, how do shortness and ugliness not pertain to looks? Sorry if I'm misunderstanding you here, but TBH you're kind of all over the place. Plenty of women do lie about what they want in a man. At the very least women are not generally honest that looks >>>>>> everything else. Yes, personality matters for an LTR up to and including marriage, but looks are what gets the guy in the door in the first place.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/24 03:55 PM
6

I just said, yes, Davidson gets a lot of play. He's a celebrity. Most men aren't celebrities. Women are attracted to looks, wealth, and status, and ugly famous guys can punch above their weight. News at 11. I don't know what "height queen" means. Looks matters for men and for women in dating. I don't know why this should be controversial to you. Men at least admit they go for the pretty girls, but women lie and say they want a man who's intelligent, kind, generous, interesting, etc, when these t…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/24 03:44 PM
7

Ah, so Olympic athlete and famous comedian/actor who aren't the hottest can still get laid? You don't say? (Is Michael Phelps even a player? I know Davidson get a lot of play, but I know nothing about Phelps). If focusing primarily on looks, at least in the short term, makes one "shallow", then most girls are shallow, as are most guys. The difference being, guys don't lie about it. Looks are what get you in the door, personality is what gets you into a substantive relationship. But without the l…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/24 03:35 PM
6

Yes, guys should hit the gym, as it yields multiple benefits, including perhaps looking more attractive to the opposite sex. But the gym doesn't fix ugly or short, and those things matter a lot when it comes to attracting women. I don't see what's "defeatist" about it.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/24 02:59 PM
2

By all means, let him try it. I'm just being realistic about what would likely result from it.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/24 02:58 PM
12

You told your little bro to post pics of his HS science fair trophy to get him laid? Holy crap...
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/24 02:54 PM
2

While it's true that, all else being equal, a short, ugly guy having a good profile will have a better chance of success on OLD than the same guy with a bad profile, the change is likely marginal, at best. He's going from a really, really small chance to just a really small chance.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/24 02:52 PM
10

Much of being hot comes down to luck, mostly due to genetics and random developmental factors. There's little that can be done to change it, and once a guy has looksmaxxed, there's little else he can do.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/24 02:46 PM
16

Guys should just put more effort into being hot. That's 99% of what matters on dating apps. Hobbies, interests, accomplishments, etc mean next to nothing. If there's nothing a guy can do to make himself hot, then there's little he can do to make himself more appealing on a dating app. And god help him if he's short, because that sort of thing is a quantitative metric that can be screened right out.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/24 02:41 PM
3

I think it's partly also wishful thinking, not just virtue signaling. It's uncomfortable to say to a guy that they would do best to not even try with a given woman because they're just not good-looking enough, so women want to dance around the issue. But you'll notice that the women who talk up a guy to his face and tell him how great he is are virtually never interested in actually dating him? Guys who are actually great catches don't need to be reassured of that fact because women's actions wi…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/10/24 10:30 PM
3

Sorry, you didn't realize how much you did what?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/10/24 10:26 PM
7

It's partly virtue signaling to pretend that looks aren't the primary driver of attraction (for men and for women, except men don't lie about it).
/r/PurplePillDebate29/10/24 07:02 PM
4

While I think treating women with respect is probably overall a good idea, I largely agree with the rest of your post. I've known guys who get plenty of tail without having any female friends. Having female friends is just not necessary to score if you're attractive, and if you're unattractive, it's not going to help you.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/10/24 06:56 PM
5

So, the guy needs to get to know her for a while (no "cold" approach), and needs to at least signal some intent from the beginning (lest he begin the friendship under false pretenses), but not actually ask her out too soon, because he hasn't sufficiently gotten to know her first. Whew. That's quite a balancing act. (The unspoken caveat, of course, is that this applies only to ugly guys: hot guys can do what they wish, or do nothing at all, and women will still want to date/fuck him.)
/r/PurplePillDebate29/10/24 06:39 PM
2

The opening of the OP is gender-neutral, but by the end, it's clear that you're talking about men asking out women. In truth, there's little advice you can give. If he's handsome, there's very little that will dissuade women from wanting to at least sleep with him, if not date him long-term. If she's not into him physically, then virtually nothing he does or says will matter with regard to becoming attractive. So, the best dating advice you can give a guy is just to looksmax, and if he's already…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/10/24 06:32 PM
1

IQ matters only insofar as it is parlayed into a high-paying career. If a high IQ allows a guy to become a hedge fund manager, for instance, then women will dig him. If he is an adjunct professor of physics at Whatever State University, making peanuts, then women won't give a shit. And women are turned off by nerdy guys, so there's that, as well.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/10/24 02:42 PM
4

Not speaking for all men, just myself, but I would have been perfectly willing to date a single mother when I was single, if I were attracted to her. It wouldn't have been ideal, certainly, but it wouldn't have been a dealbreaker. And it's worth pointing out that some moms may be single due to no fault of theirs or the dad: the guy might've been KIA in Iraq or something.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/10/24 02:36 PM
1

I think women's sexuality is demonized, as well, and to a larger degree than men's. You might notice the plethora of derogatory terms for a promiscuous woman, for instance (e.g. slut, harlot, tramp, whore, jezebel), and no derogatory terms of which I'm aware for a promiscuous man.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/10/24 01:25 PM
2

What you're describing is essentially the halo effect. Some people in this thread seem to be confused as to the halo effect meaning that literally no matter what a hot guy/gal does, they will be seen in a positive light. Like, "this guy just murdered my whole family with an axe, but he's so hot, all is forgiven and now I want to suck his dick." No, it's more just that pretty people get graded on a more generous curve in most aspects of life, not that this impression is infinitely elastic.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/10/24 12:54 PM
1

You could try out the hotter guy and jump ship to him if he's at least a good a lover as the other guy. Why wouldn't you? You don't owe a "fuck buddy" any loyalty.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/10/24 06:02 PM
1

Nothing whatsoever to do with "avoiding disappointment." If anything, being rejected for personal reasons is MORE disappointing than being rejected for impersonal ones.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/10/24 03:03 PM
6

Yes. It's mostly about physical attractiveness. The other stuff comes later, but looks are what gets the guy in the door (as well as gets him in certain other places). Women may dissemble about that fact, but their behavior belies any claims to the contrary.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/10/24 12:36 PM
1

My point is that a woman will likely still signal her interest in a guy asking her out, even if she's unavailable, therefore it's largely still a personal rejection even when she says she has a bf and demonstrates no signs of interest towards the guy, even assuming she's honest about seeing someone else (which plenty of women aren't).
/r/PurplePillDebate15/10/24 12:34 PM
1

I'm not even talking about "asking" women to cheat. And cheating itself was just one of the possibilities I mentioned in the OP. My point is that if a woman is interested but unavailable, she will act differently towards a potential suitor than if she's uninterested and unavailable. In the former scenario, at the very least, she'll want the guy's FB or IG or something to keep tabs on him if/when she breaks up with her bf. In some cases, yes, she'll want the other guy as a sidepiece in a cheating…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/10/24 12:33 PM
0

Nope. Nothing malicious about it. I think MOST rejections are personal, but "personal" =/= "malicious."
/r/PurplePillDebate15/10/24 11:42 AM
0

Nope, doesn't have to be a "rando." You're still misconstruing what I said. I also didn't say that cheating always must be involved. As I said she may just keep the guy "on retainer" if she's interested but unavailable. Sounds like you're the autistic one.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/10/24 04:25 AM
1

I said "better" options, not just "options." As in, guys hotter, taller, richer, more charming than the one you were with.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/10/24 03:04 AM
2

Then you probably had no better options.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/10/24 02:19 AM
-1

Nope, I've always been faithful to my wife, and my position is based on OBSERVATIONS of how women act. Your attempts to flip this into a personal attack on me are futile.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/10/24 02:13 AM
10

I guess because that's not what OP was about. But, sure, there are plenty of good-looking nice guys, and women want to date them, too, just as they want to date good-looking assholes. As long as the dude's not ugly, he's probably going to be getting at least an ONS or STR. If he's got a good personality, he may graduate to an LTR. If he's nice, but ugly, he'll be jerking off to Pornhub.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/10/24 01:58 AM
0

Yes, lucky. But as I said in the OP, women will sometimes at least keep a guy "on retainer" so they can monkey branch to the next guy. Even if I wouldn't have jumped ship, I wouldn't have been above at least holding onto an attractive woman's number if things hadn't worked out with my now-wife.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/10/24 01:45 AM
1

I said in the OP "And the truth is, unless a woman is very serious about her boyfriend, women will jump ship if they have a better offer." If you're planning on marrying someone, I'd consider that "very serious," and so again, your point is moot.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/10/24 01:27 AM
1

If "no one compares" then the point is moot for you, because there would be no one for you to jump ship to, as you're already with the best possible option.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/10/24 01:24 AM
1

No. People weight marriage more heavily than a bf/gf relationship, which I've stated in this thread. I've said multiple times I'm not talking about marriages, which is why I didn't even mention that in the OP.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/10/24 01:21 AM
0

Yes, the same old same old fact. Or are you denying that couples assort by, among other things, physical attractiveness?
/r/PurplePillDebate15/10/24 01:11 AM
1

I have news for you: women can suck a guy's dick without breaking up with their boyfriend. It's called "cheating." I knew of a girl in college who was cheating with her bf by habitually blowing another guy. Like, literally, she didn't even have sex with the guy with whom she was cheating, she would just go to his place and blow him. Maybe in her warped mind, it wasn't "really" cheating because it was just oral, I couldn't guess.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/10/24 01:10 AM
2

Some men are "spineless" simply by dint of their inborn personality because they're shy, introverted, meek, or whatever. It's not all "society" or "feminism" holding men down. There were shy, meek men long before modern feminism was a thing.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/10/24 01:07 AM
–

Women don't constantly date assholes. They constantly date good-looking men, as far as they're capable of getting them. If the guy's an asshole, but good-looking, they'll probably date him. If he's a super fellow, but ugly, they probably won't date him.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/10/24 01:03 AM
0

I'm not saying they don't "assess" a man's attributes, I'm denying that they perform exhaustive, in-depth background checks of a guy before they decide they want to suck his dick. You're acting like most women are headhunters for a Fortune 500 company or something.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/10/24 12:46 AM
-1

This is a non-sequitur. Nothing I said implies that. I said that some women are turned on by hot guys, and want to fuck them, just as some men are turned on by hot women and want to fuck them. The difference being, men don't lie about being attracted to "personality." Women are primarily interested in sexual attractiveness, as are men. If they weren't, then looks matching wouldn't be a thing. When it comes to selecting a partner for women looks >>>>> everything else. (And if you disbelieve me, f…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/10/24 12:41 AM
0

Your mistaken assumption is that women do tend to "properly vet a guy." Plenty of women have fallen into toxic relationships with total shitbags merely because they were handsome. And most women probably rightly assume that most men aren't con artists who would rent an expensive car which they claim they own, falsify business cards, etc.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/10/24 12:37 AM
-2

Nah. Not a projection: an observation. You may not like the term "tingles" but some women are clearly sexually turned-on by hot guys and will aggressively go after them, sometimes to the point of outright sexually propositioning them. Some women may lie about appearance not mattering to them, but that's all it is: a lie.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/10/24 12:31 AM
-3

Nope. I've personally known of women cheating simply because they were attracted to the other guy. You can keep hurling ad-homs, but you're the one out of touch with reality. And nothing about that suggests that I think women are "robots." You keep talking about the "proper response," but guess what: people don't always do the "proper" thing. Shocking, right?
/r/PurplePillDebate15/10/24 12:05 AM
1

Some signals are pretty tough to fake, though: expensive car, jewelry, high-status, lucrative job.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 11:33 PM
1

I didn't say anything about "faking." I said "signaling." There are honest signals, as well as deceptive ones.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 10:45 PM
1

Ah, sorry for the ambiguity. I mean they respected my feelings with their rejections generally, even when said rejections didn't involve them claiming they had a bf. (Having said that, I consider the bf rejection to still be at least somewhat personal, as stated in the OP. It's not merely when they falsely claim to have a bf.)
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 10:43 PM
1

Possibly, though I think that at least some women have enough empathy to consider the man's feelings, in addition to their own security considerations. I've certainly felt that some women let me down easy when rejecting me, even when they'd known me well enough to not fear "conflict and potential risk."
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 10:37 PM
1

The second line is summarizing your view of me, as stated in the first line about the insults. For the record of course I think rape is bad, and nothing I've said implies otherwise.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 10:35 PM
2

I don't know: I can't speak to that, but if kids are involved, the woman would probably be more inclined to treat that as a marriage rather than just an LTR with a bf, but that's just speculation on my part. Interesting question, though.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 10:33 PM
-2

You call me "autistic" and yet you speak of the "proper response," as if women and men are somehow rationally weighing all this out in their head. Women sometimes cheat on their bf, especially if the suitor is hot, "proper response" or not.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 10:32 PM
0

Yup.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 10:30 PM
1

That may well be, but that has no real bearing on the point I'm making. My point is that even "I have a bf" isn't quite as impersonal as some might believe.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 10:26 PM
1

I think it's more of a personal rejection if she merely has a bf than a husband, yes, as women will more readily break up with or at least cheat on a bf than a husband (at least I would presume so, unless the state of marriages in the U.S. is even more dire than is generally feared).
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 10:24 PM
0

My view of women is really no more or less negative than my view of men. I believe that most men reject women for personal reasons, as well.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 09:39 PM
1

You are reading too much into this. I'm putting forth a view I hold for debate, on a sub which is dedicated to the Purple Pill Debate. Whether I'm married or not is immaterial.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 09:33 PM
0

Yes, that's exactly what it means in many cases. At the very least she'd want to keep the guy in reserve so she can monkey branch to him if/when she breaks up with her current bf. And she needn't break up with the guy to be involved with her suitor: she could just cheat on her current bf, as some women do. I'm married, so I'm not dating any women.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 09:30 PM
-1

Wow, you really packed a number of insults into that post. I'm autistic, and I don't think rape is bad. Of course I think rape is bad. Perhaps you're autistic if you gleaned otherwise from my posts.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 09:16 PM
0

Citation needed as to where I bound a person's moral worth to their appearance. If anything I decry the halo effect, not celebrate or endorse it. They may not know the person, but they're still rejecting the person for factors which pertain to that person. Appearance is part and parcel of a person. Rejection on the basis of appearance is still personal. I'm not sure what your last point is. Men are disgusted by your physique, or they're so into you they act disgustingly in their attraction for y…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 09:14 PM
1

Forgive me, but there's a reason why you're not interested, just as there are reasons when you are interested, unless you have some bizarrely exotic mind whereby you randomly find men attractive or unattractive.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 09:08 PM
-3

It's "terrifying" to be in a position where you have virtually unlimited privilege in the world of dating?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 09:06 PM
1

If the rejection pertains to something about the person, then it's personal, even if it's merely about superficialities. There's no way around it. Yes, I think women whom I've rejected romantically probably should consider it to be personal, as I've generally rejected them because I wasn't into them physically, which is pretty personal. Don't believe me? Go to the r/ForeverAloneWomen sub and look at all of the women lamenting that they're rejected because they're ugly. I assure you, they take it…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 09:01 PM
0

Yes, I'm asking why you "weren't interested." I'm willing to bet the "some" rejections based on appearance were in fact mostly due to appearance. And you would have me believe that you wouldn't "cheat" on a fuck buddy if a hotter guy came along? What??
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 08:58 PM
-1

Uh huh. It's brutal out there for attractive women, I'm sure. Stay strong, sister: things will eventually break in your favor.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 08:54 PM
0

Well, her tits would have to be really big, lol. But in all seriousness, no I am of course not saying that a person's moral virtue is bound up with their appearance (though, thanks to the halo effect, their perceived moral virtue may well be), but appearance is still "personal," as it pertains to the person being rejected. Some rejections that I would consider impersonal are if the lady is married, if unbeknownst to the suitor she were actually a lesbian, if she's taken religious vows of celibac…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 08:53 PM
-1

Do you have anything substantive to say? Otherwise, I'm forced to conclude that you're the dense one.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 08:48 PM
–

I concede that point, but I'm saying that if a woman is into you, she'll send you signals, whether she's attached to someone or not. Believe it or not, even married people flirt with others (gasp). Her saying she has a bf, even if true, is just an easy "out" for her to reject you. If she's actually into you, at the very least, she'll want to keep you in reserve to monkey branch to you for her next relationship.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 08:46 PM
0

No. I didn't speak to all rejections. I'm speaking of romantic rejections. This is r/PPD, after all.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 08:45 PM
-11

Plenty will, especially if they're exaggerating on the "boyfriend" status of their current guy.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 08:43 PM
1

There's very little which is "rational" about dating. And a lot of it is just based on physical appearance, which you can easily assess. And people can signal their wealth and status in ways other than just showing bank statements, which would almost certainly be regarded as a turn-off.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 08:42 PM
–

It's something I've observed, so I'd call it anecdotal. I don't know what sort of research literature could be brought to bear on such a question, other than self-report measures which are fairly crude instruments.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 08:38 PM
1

No, it isn't. Our appearance is part of our identity, which is why people who, say, suffer grave injuries to their appearance through disease or injury are usually disheartened by it. Being rejected on the basis of appearance is still hurtful, and thus is personal.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 08:36 PM
-1

Why did you reject those hundreds of men? Because you didn't dig them physically, most likely. That's personal. Yes, of course people should move on when they're rejected, especially in a personal manner. And the point of my OP was that a woman's rejecting a guy by saying they have a bf is still pretty personal, albeit less so than some other reasons for rejection.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 08:34 PM
1

Yes, and you're not the only one, hence me qualifying my post by assuming that the woman is even being honest about having a bf, which itself is a risky assumption.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 08:32 PM
2

Why do we care what anyone thinks about anything? No man is an island: we all seek at least some external validation, regardless of what we may tell ourselves and others, and other people's views of us are at least a crude barometer of our perceived self-worth.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 08:28 PM
–

I disagree that most rejections aren't personal. Usually they are personal. Generally women reject guys because they find them physically undesirable, which seems pretty personal to me. Not sure where you're pulling the 8/10 statistic from, but I'd wager many of those women with "boyfriends" are at most dating someone casually.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 08:26 PM
-2

I'm just reporting what I've observed. Nothing to do with thinking poorly of women per se. And I'm married, so rest assured you will be left in peace from me, at least.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 08:24 PM
0

Being rejected on "shape and appearance" is personal in my eyes. A person's outward appearance is still an integral part of their personhood and identity and being rejected because you're ugly/short/fat or whatever is still "personal." Regardless, nothing about my OP entails that it necessarily applies to "utter strangers." A man could ask out an acquaintance or coworker or whatever and meet with the same line.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 08:19 PM
–

Right. It essentially says "I have a bf, and he's better than you, and I wouldn't date you even if I were single." Probably best to move on unless she wishes to keep in touch "as friends" and makes it clear in some way that she's eyeing you up for her next relationship.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 08:17 PM
-1

No, I don't think it does count, because I think people at least nominally treat marriages as more serious relationships than bf/gf, as well they should. I didn't even mention marriages: that's something that you brought up.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 08:15 PM
1

Yeah, well, there are a lot of bitches out there, just as there are a lot of asshole guys.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 08:11 PM
-1

Um, ok. That's great. Most women don't consider their bf "God," though, so you may be an outlier.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 08:10 PM
1

I'm not sure I follow your question. What would become irrelevant?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 08:09 PM
–

Right, but if you were interested you'd keep that second guy in your back pocket for if/when you broke up with your bf.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 08:08 PM
-9

Of course the same can be said of men. But men are traditionally doing most of the asking, it seems, and so they're the ones getting rejected more often.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 08:06 PM
-2

I never said what I "want" to happen, I said what will happen, at least as some women are concerned. The point is that "I have a boyfriend" is an easy out for women to reject a guy, and it's certainly a gentler rejection than some other ways, but it's still a rejection of sorts in many cases. If you were more desirable than her bf, she'd likely break up with him to date you.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 08:05 PM
-3

Not something I said. I said at least some women will cheat, and at the very least they'd keep the guy in reserve to monkey branch to him if/when she breaks up with her current guy.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 08:01 PM
-1

I never said it was the worst thing.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 08:00 PM
-4

A marriage is a legally binding contract between two individuals, the breach of which can carry not only grave personal ramifications, but legal ramifications with regard to the division of assets in a divorce. None of this applies to a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship. A boyfriend's different from a husband.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 07:59 PM
0

Not talking about marriage: I said boyfriend.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 07:56 PM
-22

Perhaps they should, but they don't always. If a guy gives the ladies the tingles, they'll sometimes just fuck him as a sidepiece. I've seen women with boyfriends aggressively go after guys that they're attracted to, boyfriend be damned. If a woman rejects you by saying she has a bf, it's probably the case that she wouldn't go out with you even if she were single.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/24 07:53 PM
2

That's...kind of harsh. On what basis would you have been filtered out?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/10/24 01:41 AM
1

Um, what did you do at Atlantic City without any money? (Assuming, of course, that your homelessness was related to lack of funds.)
/r/PurplePillDebate03/10/24 01:26 AM
1

Guys can be successful if they're short but hot. I've seen handsome short guys do just fine with women, and doofy-looking tall guys fail. All else being equal, better to be tall and hot, but if you can only have one, it's probably better to be handsome and short than tall and ugly (at least as it pertains to sex and dating; even handsome short guys may well be disadvantaged in other ways, such as athletics).
/r/PurplePillDebate03/10/24 01:25 AM
1

"Women" does not refer to 8-year-olds, no matter how you may wish to misconstrue it.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/10/24 11:08 PM
1

Who said anything about "underage"? She said "younger." You start talking about pedophilia, but of course girls who are too young can't even reproduce yet, so they're not "fertile."
/r/PurplePillDebate01/10/24 07:56 PM
1

Well, again, people have more interests in life besides sex and relationships, though that is of course a huge part of the human experience. I think we also need to acknowledge the hard fact that there's only so much "work" a person can do to become desirable, and we are limited to a large degree by factors beyond our control. As I said to someone else recently, the gym and Supercuts doesn't fix short and ugly. And even personality is something which is not as malleable as some people seem to th…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/10/24 03:23 PM
1

You seem to be espousing a normative claim with the "should." I wouldn't agree that a man should strive to become attractive to women. It's up to him to decide if the juice is worth the squeeze. If he, for instance, values playing video games and eating Cheetos more than grinding it out at the gym, and he hates working out more than he likes women, then I'd say that guy might be content to not try very hard and face the stark possibility of remaining single indefinitely.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/10/24 03:18 PM
–

Not necessarily. A guy may just be really physically unattractive, and thus be undesirable to women. In that case, his undesirability has nothing to do with "personal inadequacy" or "character flaws," it's simply a matter of physical shortcomings.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/10/24 02:53 PM
3

Those things are major impediments to finding a gf, yes, especially if they occur all in the same person, which does happen to an unfortunate few. I can't speak to your case, I have no idea what you look like, etc. And being "not tall" =/= "short."
/r/PurplePillDebate01/10/24 01:14 PM
3

People need therapy because they're short and ugly? Short, ugly, and ND people need love and companionship, too. Not sure why this should be controversial.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/10/24 01:05 PM
3

The gym and Supercuts don't solve ugly, short, or neurodivergent, which are problems that plague many men.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/10/24 12:54 PM
1

This is a false dilemma. Casual sex and being a "beta provider" are not the only two options. Men can have intermediate- or long-term relationships with women who can stand on their own two feet, and who don't require a "provider."
/r/PurplePillDebate01/10/24 12:55 AM
2

What makes you say that unattractive men don't know they're unattractive? In any event, I'm speaking about what women want.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/09/24 03:25 AM
1

It was in quotes because I quoted it from the article excerpt.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/09/24 01:30 AM
1

For us things like education and career are optional to survive, we can always find someone to take care of us. Do men have that power? No, but they have the "power" to divorce their gold-digging wife once she hits the wall, and she'll be cast into the world without any skills or education because she's relied on a man to "take care" of her for all of those years. Good luck with that.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/09/24 07:52 PM
2

How often have you seen this? It doesn't seem to be a common occurrence. Women will resent getting hit on or asked out by unattractive guys, but generally seem to be happy to get hit on by good-looking men, assuming that the guy can carry on a half-decent conversation and doesn't do anything insane to bungle it.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/09/24 07:00 PM
1

Huh? Where did I talk about PUAs? I still don't know what you're talking about, but whatever. This is clearly going nowhere.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/09/24 01:56 AM
1

The post you responded to was about short men being able to pull attractive women if they themselves are handsome. I don't recall saying anything about women whom other men rate as 8/10 "actually" being a 4/10.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/09/24 09:08 PM
1

Then I still have no idea what you're talking about, or how you formulated that response to what I said. You seem to have gone off the rails here.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/09/24 08:53 PM
1

What are you talking about? Did you even mean to respond to my post or to someone else's?
/r/PurplePillDebate25/09/24 08:30 PM
3

He may not need to, but he may do so because he's just trying to get his rocks off, and the less attractive girl is easier to get. Hence the concept of "soft harems." I never said attractive women don't have casual sex. However, they are generally harder to sleep with, even for attractive men.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/24 01:21 PM
6

Taylor still feels hopeful that she’ll meet someone even if she has no idea when. But Anissa isn’t so sure. Like Spencer and Haas, the thought of being single long-term terrifies her; she doesn’t want to spend her Friday nights with her cat eating sushi. She also hates it when people tell her a relationship will happen when she stops trying to make it happen. “I think that is the biggest lie that we tell each other and ourselves,” Anissa says. “You have to look.” But where is she supposed to loo…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/24 12:49 PM
4

It's possible that they are in fact the same women, and the attractive guy is "fucking down" for a short-term fling, and the woman in that other scenario would have been willing to "date down" if the schlubby guy had a good job and came from a good family.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/24 12:31 PM
3

Sorry, man. That sounds like a rough ride. Some guys have all the luck, some guys have all the pain, as the song goes.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/24 03:31 AM
10

Dating apps still favor the top percentage of men. They may make things even worse in a way, as women can more readily find attractive guys in their area rather than marrying the schlubby guy down the block.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/24 03:23 AM
6

I don't know if it's just "practice." Presumably if one of those women had said yes, then the guy would have gone out with her. I assume that guys who ask out 1,000 women would stop at the first one who said yes, even if it's number 3, 47, or 672. I assume that for them asking out that many women is simply a means to a particular end, namely landing an SO (or at least a hookup).
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/24 02:57 AM
2

So, I guess for you it wasn't even 0.1%, but 0%?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/24 02:46 AM
4

My question could be applicable to any sort of approach. I suppose I had in mind more in the vein of IRL approaches, but it could apply to OLD "approaches" as well, though it's probably a lot faster to flip through 1,000 women on an app than to approach that number of women at your local Starbucks or something. Even so, 1,000 to land an SO seems like a lot.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/24 02:03 AM
3

Were your efforts primarily via OLD, IRL, or some combination thereof? And were you embittered by your high failure rate, even if you did consider the juice to be worth the squeeze?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/24 02:01 AM
10

Women aren't going to go for coffee, or any date at all, with a guy they're not into. I could easily see how a guy would be rejected for "a quick coffee date" as readily as any other type of date he might propose.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/24 01:59 AM
1

Women absolutely will make the first move...if they're into a guy, which is usually reserved for the most attractive men. Women may not cast as wide a net as men, but the most attractive men for sure get proactive female attention.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/24 01:14 AM
1

You've been assaulted multiple times over saying "no thanks"? Somehow I think something's missing here.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/24 01:13 AM
1

There are plenty of attractive women on dating apps...even if they don't "need" them. I know multiple attractive women who met their SO (including now-husbands in some cases) on dating apps.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/24 12:31 AM
1

Attractive men can "just show up," too, and have women wanting to date them. But, yeah, unattractive men have to grind, and hope they catch some of the scraps.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/24 12:29 AM
1

I don't know: some women find it cute when 7-year-olds hit on them.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/24 12:20 AM
1

No, no: it's just that unattractive men happen to be "creeps" who don't know how/when/why to approach women. It's got nothing whatsoever to do with their looks. /s
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/24 12:19 AM
1

This is not what I said. I said when it comes to normal actual attractive women there are certain traits that are required when it comes to wanting to date them. One of these traits is being tall and white. This is proven by the fact the majority of men that dont have these traits dont have the ability to date these women despite trying. The guy doesn't even have to be especially tall if he's good-looking. Good-looking short guys can pull attractive women, though the most attractive women might …
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/24 12:18 AM
1

How many aren't married? Go to the r/foreveralone sub and look around.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/24 12:07 AM
2

Don't forget that you're only allowed to approach them in special designated social areas like bars or dance clubs unless they're just there to dance and have fun with their girlfriends, otherwise your approach is bothersome. Women don't want "truly good men" to be proactive and approach. They want desirable men to approach. The undesirable men aren't even supposed to try, hence the byzantine set of dicta laid down about how/when/where/why men are "allowed" to approach. The unstated addendum to …
/r/PurplePillDebate23/09/24 11:58 PM
1

I know you're telling me they do, but you're wrong. You may have encountered one or two women with such idiosyncratic preferences, and you may even have such preferences yourself, but this doesn't reflect women in general.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/09/24 12:31 PM
1

You're still purporting to observe the preferences of women, as revealed by their behavior, no different than what I'm doing. And you're stating that women like something which they in fact don't like. So maybe you're the one pushing an "agenda." I'm certainly not.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/09/24 03:30 PM
1

I'm not pretending. It's called observing the world. Women can certainly make informed statements about men's preferences, after all. And what makes you think you speak for ALL women? All you can do is OBSERVE other women's preferences, just as a man can do.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/09/24 01:02 PM
1

No. I'm a man who lives in reality.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/09/24 11:10 AM
1

I didn't say it was all about looks. That’s a straw man. But women aren't typically attracted to dorky, awkward guys, and the example you chose to illustrate this (i.e. Tom Holland) is ridiculous. If he's an example of the type of "dork" that women like, then Olivia Munn is an example of the sort of female "nerd" that women like.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/09/24 06:54 PM
0

Yes, they get married DESPITE the fact that they're dorks, not because women find awkwardness inherently attractive. Fat, bald, and short guys also manage to get married.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/09/24 04:05 PM
1

I'm not ignoring your point, I just don't think your point is valid.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/09/24 11:45 AM
1

Yeah, I mean, to be fair, as long as there's literally a nonzero probability of an outcome occurring, the chance of success does increase with the number of trials, assuming statistical independence between the trials (that is, failure at one attempt has no bearing on the probability of failure at subsequent attempts).
/r/PurplePillDebate20/09/24 05:28 PM
6

While I think the evidence overwhelmingly points towards women preferring tall men, short men can still do very well for themselves provided they're handsome. I've known some short guys (and by "short" I don't mean 5'9") who did very well with the ladies, landing hot girlfriends, plenty of hookups, and garnered much female interest, but they were handsome. It's possible that their height was a dealbreaker for some women, but if you're dating and hooking up with a steady diet of 7s and 8s, are yo…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/09/24 03:47 PM
2

I didn't suggest that all joking was flirting, even between men and women.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/09/24 03:10 PM
5

With all due respect, I think you're confusing "Peter Parker" with "Tom Holland."
/r/PurplePillDebate20/09/24 02:55 PM
8

I disagree that flirting is trying to "force" chemistry. Flirting can be a result of chemistry. My argument is that, for it to go anywhere, flirting is necessarily reciprocal. I agree that one-sided flirting is trying to force something which probably won't happen.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/09/24 02:50 PM
6

Lol. Tom Holland's a handsome movie star who's headlined $175M-budget movies.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/09/24 02:46 PM
1

I know you were responding to the other person, but could someone tell me what "anime scenarios" are? I've seen that term a few times now.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/09/24 02:14 PM
10

We clearly live in very different worlds if you believe that social awkwardness - or "struggling" - is seen as endearing to women, at least as it pertains to sexual attraction. They may find it "cute" in the sense that they find a toddler "cute," but usually it just paints the guy as an amicable dork, not a love interest.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/09/24 01:49 PM
5

I think flirting virtually by definition has at least some romantic connotation, even between men and women who are married to other people. For instance, when two heterosexual men joke around and bust each other's chops, we would never call that "flirting."
/r/PurplePillDebate20/09/24 01:43 PM
5

I'm essentially arguing that telling men who are unattractive - physically or otherwise - to learn to flirt to attract women is probably going to be largely futile advice, because flirting is a two-way street which usually facilitates attraction which is already present to some degree.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/09/24 01:38 PM
6

Well, flirting, of course, but physical attraction is almost always going to factor in. Not sure if I've adequately answered your question.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/09/24 01:35 PM
11

Flirting doesn't even have to be explicitly sexually suggestive: it can just be light teasing and joking, or even physical gestures like touching someone a certain way.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/09/24 01:28 PM
–

I flaired this as a "debate" because I thought the mods might want classified as such, but it could equally well serve as a "discussion." I agree that initial attraction is a huge factor, but people on this sub love telling stories about their handsome friend who can't string together two words and turns women off with his approach, so I'm willing to believe that flirting ability plays some non-negligible role in attraction.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/09/24 01:24 PM
–

Younger women tend to be more physically attractive than older women, and so more men want to date them. That alone probably accounts for most of the drive towards dating younger women. No need to unnecessarily impute Machiavellian motives to something which is probably mostly about base attraction.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/09/24 12:47 PM
1

There would be at least some relationships because some women do the approaching. Some small cohort of men barely need to even approach at all, as they get approached.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/09/24 01:35 PM
2

It's not about the guy's looks a lot of times. It's about the approach itself and the tact taken. What, you don't think "nice shoes...wanna fuck?" is a good pickup line? But in all seriousness, I wonder how much is really about the approach itself, and how much pertains to the guy doing the approaching. I find it hard to believe that a guy who looks like Brad Pitt and a guy who looks like Shrek will have equally dismal prospects with this direct approach. It may not be the ideal strategy for any…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/09/24 12:58 PM
2

It would not be that difficult. Especially with OLD . I was at least implicitly talking about IRL approaches, but yes, OLD does allow people to cast a wide net. Though 1,000 women per year still seems like a lot, even in that context.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/09/24 12:46 PM
2

WHY do you think some men ask out a lot of women? Do you consider ALL cold approaches "hassling" and "pestering"? What if a guy politely approaches large numbers of women?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/09/24 03:49 AM
6

The only lack of charity here is in your responses. Women don't think unattractive men should be even allowed to TRY. That's really what this is about, and you even tip your own hand with the "mutual attraction" condition for a man asking out a woman. My point is that "mutual attraction" never, or at least seldom, comes for those men whom nearly all women find unattractive. Those men are left playing a "numbers game." If that annoys some women, then what alternative would you propose? The man ca…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/09/24 03:33 AM
4

I think you misunderstand: the fact that some women are alienated by the "pests" you speak of is just because many women are irritated by unattractive guys asking them out. It's not because they hold a REASONABLE attitude about such approaches. Why should men cater to women's unreasonable attitudes? Men are free to shoot their shot, and women are free to reject them if they're not interested.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/09/24 03:14 AM
4

If he's getting some dates who cares if he alienates other women? And some men don't have the luxury of establishing mutual attraction: they just have to take their shot and hope for the best. I know some women wish for their ideal world in which ugly guys don't ask them out, but even unattractive men have a need for sex and love, too.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/09/24 03:05 AM
5

My wife allows 600 per year, max.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/09/24 02:35 AM
20

I mean, sure, encountered 1,000 women, but not "met" in the sense that they'd be potential dates.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/09/24 12:46 AM
60

I always wonder about these guys who say they've asked out like 1,000 women in a year. Do they do anything else with their time? I'm not sure I've even met 1,000 women in my lifetime, much less in a year.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/09/24 11:05 PM
1

IF I would make dating app I would have many men intersted in me. What is the basis for this claim, if I may ask? You say no one asks you out IRL, so what makes you think you'd be appealing in OLD? How did you lose the love of your life, if it's not too personal talk about?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/09/24 04:43 PM
1

You said you don't want to "settle" for a relationship. So, I take it that men ask you out at least occasionally, but you are not interested in any of them?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/09/24 04:35 PM
1

Women like the bad boys, the gangsters, the abusers etc and they have.more adventurous sex with them and then settle for nice guys. So far so good, it is what it is, this is the true nature of women. I think it's more accurate to say that women like good-looking guys, and are oftentimes indifferent to whether said good-looking guy is a bad boy, at least for short-term flings. I don't actually think women are attracted to men that treat them badly, and those women who do are walking toxic red fla…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/09/24 04:27 PM
1

"At least as important"? No, more like "one marginal factor among many other marginal factors of hugely secondary importance to how good-looking they are." People assort by looks, not by demeanor.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/09/24 04:24 PM
11

What a terrible person. Hope karma caught up to her.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/09/24 06:56 PM
3

I've known of men literally telling women who are acquaintances, or at best friends, that they love them. In the instances that I know of, the woman did not reciprocate the feeling, to put it mildly. I can only suppose that the guy feels he has to unburden himself, or he won't be able to live with himself without having told her how he feels. I can't imagine he seriously expected it would move the romantic needle, though.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/09/24 03:11 PM
3

I remember one guy who even wrote a poem to a girl he liked and went all out expressing his love. She of course didn’t reciprocate and it crushed him. We still don’t know if that act was what turned her off or if she didn’t like him either way. Fellas, think about a woman that you know but in whom you're not interested. Now imagine that she wrote you a poem. Do you now want to date her? Probably not. Now, why should this be any different for women?
/r/PurplePillDebate13/09/24 03:08 PM
2

Be handsome Be attractive Don't be unattractive
/r/PurplePillDebate13/09/24 02:02 PM
1

Hello halo.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/09/24 01:56 PM
8

It's very simple: they consider the men who do approach them to be beneath them, and they wish that the top-tier men would approach them, but don't, probably because the women aren't top-tier themselves.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/09/24 01:48 PM
25

Women don't really want to be approached, unless the guy's attractive. What they're really saying is they want good-looking guys to approach. When an ugly guy does so, the woman is not merely uninterested but flattered that he should ask, he instead gets demonized as a "creep". Guys probably feel that the effort isn't worth it anymore. Women can solve this "problem" by just approaching the men they like, as many already do. Women approach men all the time, and will even outright sexually proposi…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/09/24 12:34 PM
1

I'm a hetero guy, and I've definitely chatted with other men in bars and other places. They were men in my immediate vicinity, and we were both alone, and just bullshitted for a while before going our separate ways (it's not like we exchange contact info or anything). A major difference is, I doubt any hetero guy has been at a bar and said to his friends, "wow, that guy on the other side of the room looks really cool and engaging. I'm going to go over there and try to strike up an interesting co…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/09/24 01:19 PM
2

Insofar as advice on "reading the room properly" entails that a guy shouldn't even try to pick up a woman absent signs of interest on her part, that to me just seems to be another way of filtering out unattractive men, and another way of saying that unattractive men oughtn't be allowed to even shoot their shot. It's like OLD filters applied IRL.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/09/24 01:16 PM
1

That's unfortunate.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/09/24 10:26 AM
1

What about other races? Any luck there?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/09/24 01:22 AM
2

Sorry to hear that. In truth I wasn't even aware that this was a thing until I started frequenting this sub. Do even black men tend to reject black women in your experience?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/09/24 01:10 AM
1

It was just a joke. On the sitcom Seinfeld, the characters are highly neurotic, and were always finding absurd reasons to break up with partners.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/24 03:01 PM
1

Judging from your comment thread and post history, you are a waste of pixels. Blocked.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/24 02:53 PM
1

If she couldn't get over what were described as "bits" of sauce around his mouth, then I think her problems might be fairly deep-seated, and there's a good reason she's single. If the guy were wiping his mouth with his sleeve or belching at the table, I could that being a turn-off, but otherwise, yeah, this seems like a Seinfeld episode.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/24 02:44 PM
1

Yes, I'm just now figuring out that 600 lb people are less desirable as romantic partners. I thought that "extreme chubby chasers" were the norm, but you learn something new every day, I suppose.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/24 02:41 PM
3

Which "harsh standards" are you referring to? There are a significant number of overweight people in the U.S., for instance, and they seem indifferent to whatever body type standards are being applied to them. Indeed, there seems to be a countervailing trend towards "body positivity," for better or for worse. There might be "harsh standards" in say, the fashion industry, but most people don't live in the fashion industry, they live in normal life. Whatever one might think about plastic surgery -…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/24 12:08 PM
2

I agree. Beauty seems to be fairly constant across time and cultures to a large degree.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/24 10:54 AM
0

Nope, again, it needn't be "objective", whatever that might mean. My point is only that people's preferences may be subjective, but that doesn't entail that they're evenly distributed among members of the population. There can still be a general consensus that person A is more attractive than person B, even if said consensus isn't unanimous. I have no specific fixation with Devito or Pitt other than that they seem to be on rather opposite sides of the attractiveness spectrum.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/24 10:44 AM
1

WTF are you talking about?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/24 10:38 AM
2

Is your coworker a character on Seinfeld, perchance?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/24 10:37 AM
1

Does or does not?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/24 03:13 AM
1

We're not talking about validity, but would you agree that it's "valid" to, say, reject a person of a particular race on the basis of a belief that that race is innately inferior to one's own race?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/24 03:06 AM
2

I don't accept that people AS A POPULATION have "radically different tastes" when it comes to looks. There is SOME variability, yes, but preferences for particular types of facial beauty, at least, are pretty uniform. There's a reason that surgeries to make people's noses smaller is a big industry, but virtually no one asks a plastic surgeon for a larger nose. And I agree that a rejection, or even a series of them, isn't necessarily indicative of a character flaw: the person may just be shy, sho…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/24 02:41 AM
1

I discussed attractiveness in literally my first response to you, so I'm not sure how I'm shifting the goalposts. That's what we've been talking about. You were the one talking about "objective value" or some such thing. Edit: I also disagree that rejection on the basis of looks is impersonal. I discuss that in OP.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/24 02:23 AM
1

Yes, I agree that people can be incompatible for any number of reasons, but for many people lacking in attractiveness, their personal compatibility is almost beside the point, as they're vetted on their looks before personality even becomes an issue one way or the other.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/24 02:16 AM
2

Yes. And it could be months or even years in some cases.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/24 01:58 AM
1

Yes, I mean there are some genuinely impersonal reasons for rejection, but not everyone faces an equal probability of being rejected.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/24 01:56 AM
0

Again, I'm talking about ATTRACTIVENESS, not stable relationships. That is a red herring. And I don't why this sub seems to lend itself to ad homs but your personal insinuations about me being uninformed and coping are (1) inaccurate and (2) unappreciated.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/24 01:54 AM
2

I partially agree with you in that you ought not to make drastic life changes (such as religious conversion) to suit every potential mate, but I think it's overly strong to say that we cannot use other people's opinions to develop our self esteem at all. No man is an island: we are social creatures who live in a society, and part of our validation depends on how other feel about us. Indeed, we may think that a person who holds a very high opinion of himself despite being despised by everyone wit…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/24 01:28 AM
1

I acknowledged in the OP that there are some impersonal reasons for rejecting someone. "Not currently looking for a relationship" would also fit that bill.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/24 01:25 AM
2

That may be true, but who cares? Why is it relevant? I'm not dating the entirety of the population, neither are you, and neither is anyone else. I may not look like Brad Pitt. That has the sum total of relevance to my life that I probably won't ever have as successful a Hollywood career as Brad Pitt, and that I won't attract people who can only be attracted to men who look like Brad Pitt. The women who absolutely need a man who looks like Brad Pitt to feel attraction are a distinct minority (and…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/24 01:06 AM
1

I'm not trying to sabotage other men. If 600 lb dudes can find love, more power to them. Why would I be opposed to that?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/24 12:59 AM
1

Then perhaps you need to elaborate your point more than just lame rebuttals like "that's your opinion," when we're not speaking of opinions. If you agree that a 600 lb person has less hope to find a loving partner, then why when I point that out do you reply by saying that's my opinion?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/24 12:42 AM
6

That's...quite a list (they need to drink, but not too much).
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/24 12:39 AM
1

How so? We're speaking of probabilities here. Nothing to do with opinions. An "opinion" would be "600 lb people are gross." I don't have hard data on the dating success of 600 lb people at my fingertip, but are you seriously suggesting that a 600 lb person has an equal chance of finding a loving partner as a fit person?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/24 12:35 AM
1

My point is they may have "hope", just very very little of it.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/24 12:31 AM
2

Nope. Speak for yourself. Disfigured, mentally ill, and even homeless people have partners and participate in society. You are objectively wrong. And sometimes people who weigh 600 lbs find love. But it's a non-sequitur to say that they don't have it very much harder.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/24 12:28 AM
1

Well, you can change hair color, albeit not permanently.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/24 12:23 AM
1

Fair enough. I certainly accept the premise that beauty =/= attractiveness. There are indeed some women whom I find "beautiful" but to whom I'm not particularly sexually attracted, even on a purely physical level. Some women are beautiful in, say, a statuesque fashion, but I don't want to have sex with a statue. We heterosexuals can also, of course, find beauty in members of our own gender without finding them attractive. When we say that so-and-so guy is handsome, we're really just acknowledgin…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/24 12:21 AM
1

One can accept that attractiveness (including physical attractiveness specifically) is subjective, while also accepting that preferences for particular features are not evenly distributed among the population. Certain features tend to be more desirable than others, even if it's hard to say exactly which features distinguish a beautiful face from a plain or ugly one or why such features are desirable: they just are. Symmetry, the golden ratio, whatever. Brad Pitt is just generally found more attr…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/24 12:18 AM
1

Ok, you make some fair points. Could you elaborate in what ways those people were not your type? Did it primarily pertain to looks or personality issues?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/09/24 10:29 PM
2

Maybe the "very sensitive" person is right to be sensitive? Unless there are extenuating circumstances precluding the person from dating you, such as that they're already attached to someone, they don't actually prefer your gender, etc, then a rejection seems pretty personal. If a person is single and looking and rejects someone who asks them out, it's difficult to interpret it in any way other than personally. It's not like you're selling aluminum siding: you're selling yourself when you ask so…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/09/24 10:13 PM
2

Ok, got it. You seem to hold unusually strong food-related opinions, but in fairness there are presumably many vegans who wouldn't date meat eaters, especially if they are vegan for moral reasons.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/09/24 09:55 PM
3

I can't say how "common" it is, but it's definitely something I've heard stated. It may be aspirational rather than logical, but again, there may be times where it's beneficial to regard rejections as being personal, as it may spur the rejectee to improve herself/himself. If the rejectee externalizes every rejection, they may start to believe that there's something wrong with the world, and not anything they need to improve, and in at least some cases there may well be things which they could im…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/09/24 09:47 PM
5

Um, why couldn't you not date a vegan just because you like meat? You can't order different things at a restaurant, or occasionally go to "each other's" restaurants? If the vegan looked like Chris Hemsworth, for instance (or substitute whichever actor/public figure you actually find to be very hunky), would he still get rejected?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/09/24 09:41 PM
-1

I would argue that if a person is "good" enough to be a friend/acquaintance, and they are rejected as a lover, then that is a pretty clear statement that they like the person "as a friend," but aren't attracted to them. I think being told by someone that they're not attractive is a personal thing. I'm not saying it's meant be personal or hurtful, only that it may be, and perhaps should be, interpreted in such a manner.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/09/24 09:39 PM
–

Do you even want to be able to dunk a basketball? Because if it's that important to you, you can lower the basket, get a step ladder, get a trampoline, sit on someone's shoulders, etc. There's no real workaround when you're a man or woman that the opposite sex finds undesirable.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/09/24 01:31 PM
3

This is not a universally-held preference, even for other "very short women." Plenty of them still want tall men. And if you don't believe me, look no further than this sub. (For example, someone recently said something along the lines of just because a man has A-cup man boobs, it doesn't mean it's unreasonable for him to want women with substantially larger D-cup breasts, so the same should hold true with short women wanting taller men. That's the level of discourse this subject has reached...)
/r/PurplePillDebate09/09/24 12:47 PM
3

Well, physical attractiveness is a large component of interpersonal attraction, and the main pillars of how attractive someone is physically - i.e. height (at least for men) and bone structure - are mostly genetically determined and/or subject to developmental factors beyond anyone's control, so, yes, luck is a huge component of romantic success. What's less often discussed is that personality itself also has a substantial heritable component, and is not anywhere near as malleable as it's someti…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/09/24 12:44 PM
1

You...grew your dick?
/r/PurplePillDebate07/09/24 11:15 AM
0

Er, thanks...
/r/PurplePillDebate07/09/24 11:14 AM
2

Well, take my upvote, then. Yes, I was speaking of what is my overall impression of where men with certain characteristics would land in the dating world. I wasn't speaking of you necessarily, as I know little about you personally.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 10:50 PM
0

If 80s movies have taught me anything, it's that beautiful girls always fall in love with the good-hearted nerd once they wake up to the fact that their jock boyfriend is a thoughtless jerk. (Stan Marsh, huh? More like Stan Darsh.)
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 09:26 PM
1

Oh, of course. My point was just that, even including interacting with other people, there may well be a ceiling as to just how good one can get at social skills. And one's social success can also involve factors beyond one's control, such as how tall, broad-shouldered, and deep-voiced a man is (i.e. how dominant he appears), or how beautiful a woman is. Socialization isn't merely about what people say or do, but how they physically present to others, and that is not always entirely under a pers…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 08:47 PM
2

Dolla dolla bill y'all.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 08:30 PM
1

I'm not sure what you mean. Of course social skills by definition entail the involvement of other people, but it doesn't follow that there isn't some element of innate ability or talent associated with it.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 08:29 PM
1

Fair point, though I'd say there's probably a difference between going on a date in which the parties are mutually interested vs. one in which one party (i.e. the woman) is there out of obligation, and may be just be counting the minutes til it's over. But, yeah, perhaps every little bit of experience can help for some guys. Though they need to be prepared to be disappointed, especially if they're poor at receiving social signals, and mistakenly believe that their date actually likes them.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 08:28 PM
3

This. While social skills are no doubt more mutable than many aspects of looks such as height or bone structure, it's not something that can be learned by reading a book you bought off of Amazon. There is a distribution of natural talent in social skills, and not everyone is able to become good at it, even with hard work. There is innate talent at play, as well.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 06:17 PM
1

You keep can pissing into the wind if you like, but as I said, I'm not responding to your posts any further on this discussion. But, if you just enjoy typing, by all means keep at it.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 06:04 PM
2

And if he's ugly due to unfortunate bone structure, then there's really nothing to even work on in that regard.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 05:48 PM
0

This is nothing but ad-homs. And you've done it with other people, too, accusing them of lying for merely disagreeing with you. You have no point to make, and I'm done with this discussion. (The "arranged marriage" comment alone is so fucking asinine, I can't even begin to tell you.)
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 04:51 PM
5

I do have life experience. I'm fucking married, for one. If you're going to make personal attacks I'm going to start flagging your posts. Secondly, no, women absolutely throw themselves at hot guys, and unless he has a personality like a serial killer, he will get laid, at least in the short-term. It's not his "ok" social skills which are getting him there: it's his hotness.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 04:15 PM
1

Have you never heard of women marrying guys with trash personalities? Do you think all of those DV calls the cops respond to only pertain to STRs? You need to be very careful in using terms like "always." You're simply wrong here. And the point is that the hot guy with the trash personality still gets more play than the ugly guy with a great personality, even if the former is always kicked to the curb after a certain period of time (which isn't the case, in any event).
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 04:12 PM
2

"Subjective" =/= equally distributed among the population or completely idiosyncratic among subjects. There are still rough consensuses about what's attractive and what's not, even across different times and cultures. There are minor variations in this regard, but generally hot is hot and ugly is ugly. And, yes, of course short men enter into relationships, just as some morbidly obese women do. It doesn't follow, however, that shortness or morbid obesity aren't major problems in landing a mate.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 03:53 PM
3

Thank you for this candor. Like I said earlier in the thread (and what keeps getting downvoted) is that unattractive + social skills = friendzone. A few corollaries of this statement may be: attractive + no social skills = ONS to short-term fuckboy unattractive + no social skills = social outcast attractive + social skills = LTR and possible marriage material
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 03:50 PM
6

And due to the halo effect attractive people may simply be perceived as having better social skills relative to unattractive people, whether or not they actually do. Not that this perception is infinitely elastic, but they are graded on a more generous curve.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 03:36 PM
1

And due to the halo effect attractive people may simply be perceived as having better social skills relative to unattractive people, whether or not they actually do. Not that this perception is infinitely elastic, but they are graded on a more generous curve.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 03:36 PM
1

"Always"? Not even close. Lotta criminals and deadbeats out there with multiple baby mammas. Women will put up with a lot if the guy's hot. And what women say and what they actually do with regard to mate selection can be quite different.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 03:24 PM
3

You'd only develop feelings for the ones who you enjoyed spending time with and who were...?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 03:22 PM
7

That's the point: they don't have to "do anything." They get their dick wet because women throw themselves at him because he's hot. If a guy just wants strings-free sex with a lot of hot women, then he's definitely "winning" in that regard. I'm not sure what adverse long-term consequences you're referring to.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 03:21 PM
12

If by "bomb", you mean the guy gets laid for a few weeks or months on the basis of his hotness until the girl ditches him because of his personality, then you're correct. A lot of guys would kill to "bomb" like that.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 02:42 PM
1

Yes, and you'd almost certainly have been willing to "sacrifice" personality for the sake of looks and height, correct?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 02:29 PM
2

Maybe I was a bit hyperbolic by saying a shit personality, but I think my point still holds if that's revised to a personality which is somewhat lacking-to-mediocre.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 02:28 PM
3

That's debatable.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 02:27 PM
0

Yes, and if he were really hot, but had a shit personality, she'd be willing to take a haircut in the personality column and go with the hot guy. Even you hedge your statement by saying he'd have to be at least average-looking, so if he were ugly, but with a personality so charming that she literally describes it as addicting, he'd still be SOL. Sounds to me like looks are more important.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 02:12 PM
1

Yes, they do. Go outside and look. I'm fucking done with you. Goodbye.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 01:56 PM
8

Many women have an innate revulsion to short men. Don't pretend otherwise. And though there are some women who may not mind a guy being short, there are virtually no women who prefer short guys. And height is immutable. A man's physical attractiveness is paramount. Women may claim otherwise, but their actions belie this. Show me a fat guy with a bad haircut and BO who wears nothing but hockey jerseys and sweatpants, and I'll agree that that guy needs to work on himself. Likewise, if I show you a…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 01:55 PM
6

Um, the fact that you married a handsome charming guy doesn't exactly disprove the counter narrative to the OP that looks are quite important, and that social skills alone are generally insufficient. You even hedge your statement by saying you were prepared to make some sacrifices (presumably with regard to looks), but that's a far cry from saying you'd have loved and married him on the basis of his personality alone, regardless of what he looked like.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 01:21 PM
2

Of course social skills matter...provided you're physically attractive. Good social skills + physically unattractive generally gets a guy friendzoned, unless the woman is sufficiently desperate. Looks get your foot in the door, and personality carries you through to an LTR, if that's what both parties want. And of course, a hot guy with bad social skills might just have to "suffer" through a few weeks or months of casual sex with a woman before she decides he's not that interesting and moves on …
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 01:03 PM
0

You clearly have some kind of preconceived notion about the nonexistence of actual fat men in relationships, but again, go to any Walmart, amusement park, or county fair, and you'll see plenty of them. Beyond that, there's really nothing I can tell you if you're not willing to observe reality.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 03:50 AM
1

Um, no.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 03:35 AM
2

Dude, go to any Wal Mart or amusement park: you will see plenty of overweight couples. I'm not hallucinating them.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 03:10 AM
2

I wasn't aware that there was such an imbalance in overweight/obesity between men and women: I assumed those rates were roughly equal between men and women, but that might not be the case, I don't know. Back when I was single, I was bit more forgiving than some of my peers when it came to a woman's weight. I generally had no problem hooking up with girls who were a bit chubby. I never wanted to get with a girl who was obese, but a few extra pounds was fine, and I happily hooked up with girls tha…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 02:00 AM
2

I'm not sure, but I've certainly seen plenty of fat people paired up. It may be incorrect to assume that they're incapable of actually being attracted to other fat people. They may well be, albeit less than ideally so.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/24 01:35 AM
3

Why then is there an apparent rise in fit men willing to enter into an STR with an overweight girl, do you think?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/24 11:39 PM
2

I get you, but even if fat women are convinced to love themselves as they are, it doesn't mean that there's a thin MAN who will love them. If there are more lonely fat men, can it be assumed that the newly-body-positive fat women are getting with fit men somehow?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/24 11:30 PM
5

I see plenty of overweight couples, and overweight people seem to pair up disproportionately (though that is not necessarily by choice, but by necessity), so clearly there are overweight/overweight couples out there. They may each prefer a thin/fit person, but are still willing to date another overweight person.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/24 10:55 PM
5

Or when the fat person's on one side of the bed and the skinny person's on the other.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/24 10:53 PM
–

Well, I gave a specific example of working on oneself (i.e. weight loss) which seemed to pay dividends for at least some people, as reported by their Reddit posts. There's really not much one can do to verify these stories, of course, but the alternative is believing that there are numerous people inexplicably lying about weight loss and its attendant effects, or some Russian troll farm someplace is pushing this propaganda to, I don't know, undermine American junk food manufacturers or something…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/24 10:40 PM
3

Besides the virtual impossibility of a man just turning himself gay, it's also unlikely that a man who is undesirable to women will be much more desirable to another man, even a gay one. Women and gay men seem to find the same types of guys attractive, as far as I can observe. But, if a man's sexuality were under such voluntary control, wouldn't the more prudent advice be for him to simply flip it off like a switch, and then he wouldn't be as thirsty?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/24 09:46 PM
5

Fat people still pair up; they just tend to do so with other fat people. If everyone's fat, it shouldn't really be a problem. If the overweight/obesity epidemic were concentrated in one gender, then that might cause an imbalance. As long as overweight people are willing to sleep with other overweight people (and plenty seem willing to do so), then society will carry on.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/24 09:33 PM
–

Reddit is littered with posts from men and women who said they got more attention from and were generally treated better by the opposite sex when they lost weight, so insofar as working on oneself can include weight loss and fitness, the advice isn't totally useless. But it's also important to realize the hard truth that there's a limit - largely set by genetics - as to how attractive a person can make themselves, both with regard to physical attractiveness and personality.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/24 09:15 PM
2

*anecdotal
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/24 07:08 PM
1

Once again, I'm talking about what women say they want. Of course no single woman is the spokesperson for all women, but look at the discourse surrounding dating and seriously try to tell me that what women say they want matches who they actually want, as judged by their behavior. You keep carping on the point about men being dumb, not able to see, etc, which is just a red herring. As for "lashing out," I don't know what women would lash out at men for. Why lash out: they hold most of the power …
/r/PurplePillDebate04/09/24 12:39 AM
1

Red herring. Men's powers aren't anemic: hence the disillusionment. They have come to see what's going on. But you haven't addressed the dishonesty that women collectively exhibit with regard to their stated preferences. Why is that? And why do women feel the need to be dishonest to begin with?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/09/24 12:30 AM
–

Honest in their stated preferences. When women state what they're looking for in a partner, somehow looks tends to hardly even be mentioned (stated preference), but when you observe the sorts of men that women actually go for (revealed preference), it's apparent that looks >>>>> everything else. It's telling that the conversation virtually never unfolds like this: Man: what are you looking for in a partner? Woman: he should be hot, first and foremost. Man: but of course you also want someone who…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/09/24 12:23 AM
–

Well, that's my point: they HAVE made that assessment, hence the glaring difference in women's stated vs. revealed preferences, which I noted earlier. And the reason that such a disparity in those preferences exists at all is because women have not been honest about what they want. It's not that the other factors I mentioned don't matter AT ALL, it's that they don't matter if the guy's physically unattractive.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/09/24 12:04 AM
–

Not anything I ever claimed. I just said women lie about their preferences, which is why a generation of men have been brought up thinking that women value personality, humor, intelligence, generosity, etc in a partner, when in actuality it's looks >>>> everything else. And then when men become disillusioned because that's not actually the case, cue the collective chorus from women that "OF COURSE looks matter!"
/r/PurplePillDebate03/09/24 11:54 PM
–

Stated vs. revealed preferences.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/09/24 11:00 PM
2

If I may ask, in what ways are they "not nice," given that they're good friends? And can I assume that the answer to my question is no, you do not preferentially try to set up better-looking members of your friends group?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/09/24 08:15 PM
2

Ok, but you alluded to some people in your friend group not being nice, as you contrasted them with the people that were. Being a bit weird and not being nice are two different things. If I may ask you candidly: do you preferentially try to set up the better-looking members of your friends group?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/09/24 07:50 PM
3

FWIW, my wife said when we were going out that my kindness was one of the things that drew me to her. I'm not suggesting that this experience is universal, or that kindness alone is sufficient to get a woman interested in a guy, but I think it can help.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/09/24 07:39 PM
4

Yes, but why are you friends with them if you hold such a low opinion of them? I could understand saying they're "friends of friends" or something, but you on the one hand identify them as your friends, and on the other admit that some of them aren't nice or rational. That is a strange attitude. I mean, nobody's friends are perfect, of course, but voluntarily being friends with people that you hold such a low opinion of seems "off" somehow.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/09/24 07:36 PM
5

Why are you friends with not nice and/or irrational people?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/09/24 07:26 PM
2

I think the height, physical appearance and salary matters immensely to most women. But why should that be an issue? It shouldn't be an issue: women should just stop lying about their preferences and admit that they're as superficial as men in most regards.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/09/24 05:23 PM
3

Dude, don't take this the wrong way, but you are talking like you've never actually met any women in the wild. Of course women have a sex drive, and can enjoy sex purely as a carnal, sensual, recreational and casual encounter. They generally want to fuck hot guys, but there is plenty of casual sex going on. Of course female behavior demonstrates this. Have you never been to college? A party? Lived in a city? Hung out with attractive dudes and listened to them talk? You are denying reality based …
/r/PurplePillDebate30/08/24 01:43 PM
–

Except the guy above specifically referred to some women liking the "fake look."
/r/PurplePillDebate29/08/24 08:25 PM
–

Yeah, if some women want to look like plastic-faced fish, good for them. I'd take a hard pass myself.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/08/24 08:18 PM
–

Yeah, I know, the toupee fallacy and all that. But if those things can make some women look good, then why do they make so many women look so bad, including many of those who'd be able to afford the top of the line treatment?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/08/24 07:59 PM
–

Plastic surgery & lip fillers generally don't make a woman look gorgeous, just weird.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/08/24 07:52 PM
1

If we're in agreement on that point, then perhaps you should edit your earlier post wherein you say that women don't cold approach.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/08/24 10:21 PM
0

I'm aware of the escalation observation, but you said women don't cold approach men, as if it never happens. My point was that it does happen. And if women don't do it as often as men (assuming for the sake of argument) it's because most men are sexually invisible to most women. But it doesn't follow that hot men are rarely cold approached by women, because that does in fact happen.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/08/24 09:48 PM
0

It's rare when women do it because most men are sexually invisible to them. But it's not rare for hot guys to get approached. And there are countless people meeting in bars and clubs every weekend, plenty of whom are going home with each other. I'm not sure how you're defining "rare" or where you're getting your info from.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/08/24 09:25 PM
-1

Ok, but you just made a blanket statement about "women." You also said cold approach doesn't work, but it does if there's attraction. That's how ONS and hookups can happen. Again, do you think people never go home with people they met that night in a bar/club? Because I can assure you that they do.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/08/24 07:00 PM
1

Right, but I was responding to a woman who said women never cold approach. Women definitely do cold approach.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/08/24 05:40 PM
1

Yes, but I was responding to a woman.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/08/24 05:38 PM
3

Hot guys get approached/hit on/ flirted with/outright sexually propositioned plenty. Not saying ALL women do this, but plenty do. Not until you hang out with a guy whose looks gives ladies the tingles do you realize just how horny, aggressive, and outgoing many women can be. It's like I say: ugly guys have to grind, hot guys just have to show up.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/08/24 05:17 PM
3

Plenty of women cold approach. You think women never hit on male strangers at bars/clubs, for instance?
/r/PurplePillDebate25/08/24 05:13 PM
–

I read just fine, thanks. I'm questioning the implication that a 28 y.o. woman without any dating experience is a preference for a non-negligible subset of men. SOME men may prefer that, sure, but they're probably hyper-moralistic weird religious types who want to see an intact hymen. But SOME men also prefer fat girls, so there's that.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/08/24 03:34 PM
–

Which guys PREFER a 28-year-old woman who's never had a bf? That seems like it'd be a bit of a red flag to me.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/08/24 03:28 PM
1

I see. So the existence of injustice makes the world more exciting to you? I take it then that you are in favor of maintaining unequal treatment of attractive vs. unattractive women?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/08/24 12:40 AM
1

I'm speaking about what OUGHT to be the case, and what society should strive for. Just because the world is unjust in some ways doesn't mean that it HAS to be or that it SHOULD be.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/08/24 10:45 PM
1

Yes, and some men are into obese women. It doesn't mean that there isn't a typical of preferences for male or female beauty. However, this misses the point: even if a woman prefers tall guys (as most do), it should not be viewed as problematic when a short guy asks her out. She can just say 'no' without accusing him of violating some sort of rule about not approaching women when they're reading a book, on a park bench, or speaking with their bestie. The point is, we should strive for absolute pa…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/08/24 08:20 PM
1

Yes, as I said (bolding added), "it is absolute bullshit that there should be different sets of rules for attractive and unattractive people, whether it be men or women, and this should in no way be accepted by society." There shouldn't be separate rules for hot vs. ugly women, either. The only difference is, I've seen ugly girls hit on good-looking guys, and the latter don't seem to get bent out of shape about it, and lament that they can't even go to a bar for a drink without being "harassed."…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/08/24 08:05 PM
1

Two problems here: First, sometimes hotness is just a matter of bone structure and skeletal structure. No amount of self-improvement cures an ugly face or short height. If just any guy could become hot with a visit to the mall and a Supercuts, I think they would've cracked that nut by now. Second: while women should in no way be pressured into dating guys to whom they're unattracted (physically or otherwise), it is absolute bullshit that there should be different sets of rules for attractive and…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/08/24 07:37 PM
2

If it's too personal, no need to answer, but did you have any relationships ages 17-27?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/08/24 06:45 PM
9

My guess is you're not as good-looking as you think you are. Even if you believe yourself to be only average, you may in fact be below-average.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/08/24 06:18 PM
2

Given that you're married, but have never been asked out, I take it you made the first move with your husband, despite the fact that you're "hideous" and he's attractive? If so, that must have been difficult for a self-described shy and awkward person to do.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/08/24 06:13 PM
2

Asking people out is now "predatory"? I'm guessing this doesn't apply to hot guys asking women out, right?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/08/24 03:02 PM
2

I think it's perfectly ethical to join an organization or do a hobby with the hopes of meeting women, provided you act ethically in trying to pick them up. I mean, no one says it's unethical to go to a club to try to meet women, and that the guy should just be enjoying the music and drinks. People have to meet somehow, after all.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/08/24 01:53 PM
7

Are you saying you won't date women who are even the slightest bit overweight, or you draw the line at severely overweight-obese or something else?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/08/24 01:37 PM
1

I don't know. You didn't say anything about cohabitation, you just said "committed," which could have a broad range of interpretations. Other posts on this sub have described an apparent mismatch between the number of men and women who report that they're in relationships, so it doesn't seem like 1-1 mating is what's going on in all cases.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/08/24 05:47 PM
10

No, I mean what "feminine" things are you into?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/08/24 02:02 PM
2

A hot, but bad man, will still attract more women than an ugly, but good guy, IMO. Joren van der Sloot is a convicted murderer, and yet has women writing him in prison and has had fucking conjugal visits with multiple women. There was also the hot mugshot guy whom I think was offered a modeling gig after he was released from jail. It's not that every woman will like a hot bad boy, but the point is that he's still getting more female attention than an ugly good boy.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/08/24 01:59 PM
1

I mean, I do most of the cooking in the household, which might be considered stereotypically "feminine" (with regard to home cooking: restaurant cooking has historically been a man's domain), and my wife seems to appreciate it. Cooking is a skill like any other, and people appreciate a skilled touch. And it probably helps if a guy knows how to cook for his dates.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/08/24 01:53 PM
3

Such as?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/08/24 01:52 PM
1

Or maybe many of them just believe they're in committed relationships, and they're being played.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/08/24 12:50 PM
2

I'm still new to the pill stuff, but I thought a black piller would say something more along the lines of if a guy's not hot then he's not even getting his foot in the door.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/24 11:39 AM
2

Fair enough, but while he may not have been getting LONG-term relationships, he was at least getting SHORT-term relationships. So, in other words, women were fucking a guy whose personality they didn't even like until they got bored of riding his dick, then kicked him to the curb. Yeah, no shallowness there.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/24 11:20 AM
2

I get that, but you do realize there's a HUGE difference between a guy who fucks countless women but can't get an LTR versus a guy who can't get any dates or sex at all? They're both lonely in a way, but their life experiences are vastly different.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/24 11:04 AM
5

I once met a girl in her early 30s, took her on some dates, banged her hard, and then married her.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/24 07:57 AM
3

You dated the guy for 6 weeks, which is more than he probably would have gotten if he weren't fine as hell, or however you described him. That's 6 weeks of dating, conversation, and sexual activity of some sort (I'm assuming - feel free to correct me if this was a totally chaste 6 weeks), which he never would have gotten had he not passed the looks threshold.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/24 07:24 AM
4

I think the point a few people are missing here is that the HOT guy would have gotten women if had a better personality. But it doesn't follow that a NON-HOT guy with a great personality would have gotten those women. It may well be the case that looks are necessary to get your foot in the door, but it's personality which will allow you to actually seal the deal.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/24 06:59 AM
3

I think she meant normal-looking, hence the reference to one of them being overweight. Perhaps they excel in other areas.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/24 08:58 AM
1

Or maybe he's just attracted to a wide range of women, and would be happy with many of them. Very often THE girl rejects him, and he sometimes has to focus on A girl. If you don't find this agreeable, then, what, should you tell women to stop rejecting guys? This is yet another example of the strictures placed on men in dating: unless they're very good-looking they're going to face a lot of rejection, and they will virtually never have women approach them. So in order to get sex/relationships th…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/24 08:32 AM
1

Attempting to talk to strangers politely is not harassment under any reasonable definition of that term. The only reason it would be so considered is if you're a paranoid misandrist. Let me ask you, is it also harassment when women attempt to cold approach men whom they find physically attractive?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/24 08:22 AM
10

I'm guessing your friends are handsome guys? It's a lot easier to regularly pick up women when you're handsome.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/24 08:15 PM
–

I thought you said you got relationships that way?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/24 03:31 PM
–

Some dudes are just short, ugly, or whatever. There's no improving that. But I agree that men who are labeled "creepy" seem to be the unattractive ones.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/24 03:30 PM
–

Wow. A girl WAVED at you and then drove away? Well stop the presses, I guess there's hope for unattractive guys after all!
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/24 02:35 PM
–

But then men are criticized for joining such groups in hopes of meeting women, they're labeled as "creepers" and such.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/24 02:30 PM
–

Again, merely trying to talk to someone isn't harassment! If they persist in an actually harassing manner, that's different. I'm not talking about catcalling or not taking no for answer. And I would argue that approaching strangers IS going outside the comfort zone for some guys. I'm ignoring the dumb ad hom about me being an ugly gremlin or whatever.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/24 01:10 PM
1

Oh, so women's sex drive isn't SHADY, and they're POLITE about it! Well, I'm glad you clarified what sort of sex drive is acceptable. And this belies the fact that I've known of women aggressively hitting on men, as well. One guy I know said he had to "surgically detach" a girl from his leg at a party. Is that acceptable behavior? Perhaps some men HAVE to cast a wide net because they're undesirable and struggle to get dates. Have you considered that?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/24 01:04 PM
–

That is simply a lie that women don't care if he's attractive. And your constant references to men as "cum salesmen" betrays your misandry. Yes, men want to get laid. Do women not also have a sex drive? If the guy wants your number so that he can call you for a date, does that make him a cum salesmen? And if a guy's approaching you, he probably finds you attractive, which is indeed a compliment, but you're unable to accept it as such. They're not just trying to indiscriminately convert people li…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/24 12:44 PM
–

The mere fact that you don't like it doesn't mean it's harassment. This trivializes the notion of harassment. If the guy is too pushy or doesn't take no for an answer, that's one thing, but merely trying to talk to someone isn't harassment. Again, women expect men to be mind readers and somehow suss out which women like being talked to, and which don't. And the Chris Rock reference may be dated, but it doesn't make it any less true. Stop pretending that attractiveness isn't the dividing line.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/24 12:34 PM
–

Dogs and babies are clutch. There should be a place where guys can rent dogs and babies by the hour just for this sort of thing.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/24 10:11 AM
–

This is a tad confusing. Where did he cold approach you? You didn't get together relationship-wise until two YEARS later? What does "checking out on each other" mean?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/24 10:10 AM
–

Are these men asking for your number or any kind of follow-up? If not, it may not be an "approach" per se in the manner described in this thread.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/24 10:04 AM
–

Question: how exactly do you know which of your male friends would sleep with you, and which wouldn't? I mean, are you really claiming a 100% reliability in your intuition for these things?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/24 09:57 AM
–

The entitlement here is shocking: unwanted male ATTENTION qualifies as "harassment." It's not ACTUAL harassment which qualifies as harassment, but merely unwanted male attention. I presume that WANTED male attention would not so qualify in your eyes? If that's the case, then what is the primary criterion differentiating whether male attention is wanted or not? Because I think we both already know the answer to that, i.e. how good-looking the man is. All of this just serves to illustrate the old …
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/24 09:49 AM
–

I'm sorry, but the "piles of strangers" line is malarkey. While it's true that some women don't wish to be "bothered" by men at a bar, what that actually means is that they don't want men whom they perceive as UNATTRACTIVE hitting on them. Plenty of people meet in bars or clubs, and women themselves can absolutely be the initiator. I've even heard some girls lament that guys DON'T talk to them at bars. It's not men's fault that they're not mind readers and can't magically suss out which women ar…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/24 09:40 AM
–

I admit I can be a bit slow on the uptake, but did this actually happen, or is it an inside reference to a movie or something?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/24 12:19 AM
–

Seriously. Like if the guy's polite, take his approaching as the compliment that it is.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/24 10:22 PM
–

Yes. Unattractive men not only face a lower probability of success, but they are also vilified merely for trying in some cases.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/24 08:15 PM
–

This. Unattractive guys have to grind, attractive guys just have to show up.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/24 01:53 PM
2

Right, but I'm asking if you were talking about approaching in a bar or at the grocery store or whatever.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/24 12:51 AM
9

Some women reacted negatively in a bar or in other settings?
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/24 12:47 AM
62

It's perfectly acceptable in most instances for a guy to approach women if he's hot. The "no approach" rule only really applies to ugly guys, whatever women may claim. The unwritten rule is that there are basically different codes of conduct for attractive and unattractive people.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/24 12:38 AM
65

Right. What they mean is that they don't go there to meet UGLY guys.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/24 12:28 AM
1

Sounds pretty pedantic to me, but you go ahead and split hairs. You're talking about what you think people SHOULD do, and I'm speaking of what I think people DO do in everyday speech. Plus, obese people technically ARE overweight, albeit not MERELY overweight. There is also the issue that in describing a person close to them, people may wish to use more gentle descriptors, such as "overweight" vs. "obese" despite what CDC guidelines might say about BMI.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/24 09:25 AM
2

Don't listen to this guy. Many, many men, likely including most incels, want nothing more than for a woman to flirt with them.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/24 11:52 PM
1

I know, but surely in normal parlance, obese also qualifies as "overweight", albeit to a high degree of that quality.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/24 03:33 PM
1

I've never been on Tinder. Women post their n count in their profile?? What's suifuel? Suicide fuel? If a guy wants to off himself because girls are having a lot of sex, then his problems extend much deeper than an inability to get laid.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/24 03:29 PM
1

Maybe the terminology has changed over the years, but "hookups" can broadly include non-intercourse sexual activity such as oral sex, or maybe even just an intense makeout session with some heavy petting and maybe a boob lick. Nobody's getting pregnant from that.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/24 12:22 PM
2

Hundreds of men? That is indeed a horny slut! That's like "porn star who's done several gangbangs" territory.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/24 12:15 PM
2

Well, "overweight" spans a broad category, and assuming he lives in the US, excluding women who are even mildly overweight is going to severely limit his already depleted dating pool. (Not that I need to tell you this, this is for his benefit.)
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/24 11:56 AM
2

Given that in the thread you said you actually had a few dates, I'm guessing the question you pose in the OP is a hypothetical extension of your actual situation? For someone with your actual life experience, I would lie or remain as vague as possible about your background. If you've had a few dates with women that you weren't sexually compatible with, you could always make brief reference to the women whom you've "dated", while perhaps also admitting that you "don't date much." Also, set your s…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/24 04:39 AM
10

You talked about women getting up a guy's hopes for sex, but if he's been PUMPED and dumped, then by definition sex has already occurred.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/24 11:19 AM
2

Why do you say zero risk for women approaching? Women are still taking an emotional risk of being hurt/embarrassed.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/24 11:16 AM
12

The "pump" is in reference to sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/24 11:12 AM
3

This reminds me of my favorite pickup line: "baby, you make me want to get a job."
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/24 08:33 PM
1

Well, she was 16, and sort of a dope. I haven't kept up with her over the years, but I doubt she's gone on to great things. (Nice tits, though.)
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/24 08:32 PM
14

Women like a guy who has a sense of humor and likes long walks on the beach...provided he's also handsome.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/24 08:13 PM
1

By "homely", I mean unattractive, which is the standard definition AFAIK. Not sure where the confusion is coming from on that point. As for female variability in attractiveness, sure, some girls think Jared Leto is attractive and some think Henry Cavill is attractive. Different face structures, different body types. But virtually no one thinks Steve Buscemi or Michael Moore are hot. Again, let's not oversell the variability. Finally, regarding men's supposedly more uniform perception of attracti…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/24 03:57 AM
1

I don't think there's much variability concerning what constitutes conventionally hot people. There's some, yes, but not as much as some people like to pretend. And, so homely guys are put in the double bind of needing to ask out more women to play the numbers game to land a partner, AND also being more limited in the situations in which they're allowed to "appropriately" approach a woman. Jesus, no wonder some men feel disenfranchised by the dating scene.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/24 03:42 AM
2

Yes, and so the "situational awareness" that men supposedly need doesn't really apply to hot guys, correct? So, it's really just homely guys who need "situational awareness", which just reinforces my point is that the perceived appropriateness of a man's approach in a given situation is primarily determined by how hot he is. You pushed back on that at first, and then seemed to concede the point.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/24 03:24 AM
3

Yes, hot men "get away with more shit cuz they're hot"...ergo there are different, or at least more lax, rules for hot guys regarding the perceived appropriateness of their approach. Sounds pretty much like what I've been saying.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/24 03:10 AM
3

My point is not just that good-looking people are more likely to attract a partner, it's that there are effectively different rules for good-looking and homely men. You are speaking of when it's "appropriate" for a man to approach women without being honest that the primary determinant, not just of success, but of perceived appropriateness is how good-looking the man is.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/24 01:25 AM
3

Yes, everyone does know that. Which is why women deem it "appropriate" for a man to approach...if he's hot. Otherwise, he's "creepy", invading her personal space, etc. Also, it's false that I'm assuming every rejection of a guy is because he's ugly. Of course attractive men are sometimes rejected; they're just overwhelmingly more likely to find success, and they have a greater deal of leeway on the basis of their looks.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/24 01:16 AM
2

Reading some of the stuff going on in r/dating is so depressing: I'm so glad I'm not single. You have size 16 women claiming that they can't find a man good enough for them, and guys lamenting that they're unable to meet women when they join clubs and activities: and then they're criticized for joining a club merely to "get laid." So, men aren't allowed to cold approach at a gym or grocery store or laundromat, because women just want to go about their business. OLD is heavily skewed towards fema…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/24 01:08 AM
4

It's "appropriate" when the man's hot, otherwise not. Unless a woman's being hit on at, say, a funeral or something, the good-looking guy is overwhelmingly likely to meet with a much more favorable response. And the homely guy isn't merely rejected, he's vilified for approaching women when it's "inappropriate" to do so. We all know that male attractiveness is the primary determinant of the woman's receptivity to these types of advances: why deny that?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/24 12:59 AM
3

My first gf didn't like when I kissed her on the forehead, as it felt like a paternal gesture. She also thought it was "gay" when I kissed her arm.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/24 12:44 AM
4

Not at all. OP literally said in this comment thread: [...]that cold approach is something women won't ever find themselves doing because of societal norms. It's blatantly false to say that women "won't ever" cold approach a man. Full stop. It does happen. And I specifically said I wasn't speaking to relative propensities to approach desirable members of the opposite sex, and I make no representation that said propensities are exactly equal between men and women. But we shouldn't misstate the fa…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/24 06:04 PM
3

No, I don't believe that that follows, unless we adopt the rather extreme position that every woman, everywhere will always approach a man they're potentially interested in dating, thereby implying that a woman's failure to approach necessarily means that she's not interested, thus dooming any chance the man might have if he approached himself. I mean, at the very least there's the obvious possibility that the woman hasn't seen the guy whom they may otherwise approach, in which case it would beh…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/24 04:42 PM
6

Ok. I don't think I'm really getting your point, then. I'm just pointing out that, despite what "conventional wisdom" may say, in reality women approach men, as well. Notice I said nothing about the relative frequencies or propensities of women to approach, only that it does happen, albeit likely for a small subset of men, for the most part.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/24 04:35 PM
9

Huh? I didn't say anything about being "ok" or "not ok" with it. I just said that your OP was founded on an erroneous representation (which it is), so any discussion which follows from that is largely pointless.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/24 04:30 PM
8

I'm sorry, but it's just not true that women don't cold approach men. If the guy's hot, they'll approach him. It might be only a small subset of men who get approached, but women will do it. Yes, some women are too shy or lack confidence to approach men, but some men are too shy to approach women, too.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/24 04:24 PM
25

Women do approach men. Your post is therefore founded on an erroneous representation.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/24 04:14 PM
1

Hell, I have a kid, and I don't want any kids. (JK!)
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/24 12:46 AM
1

There would likely have to be at least some men who don't care about a woman having a high n-count, else she wouldn't be able to continue to rack up a body count with additional men, unless we're to believe that, at least once she's up into the high n's she's only sleeping with guys who are unaware of her reputation. (However, I concede that some men may be unconcerned about a high n-count for an ONS or short-term fling, but would consider that woman unsuitable gf material.) And speaking for mys…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/24 03:50 PM
2

I'm not suggesting that it's a widespread conceit that men exclusively, or even primarily, prefer blondes, only that it's something I've heard women say with regard to themselves not being found attractive (or at least immediately attractive) to men. As for your question, I don't know how to answer that. A woman with a nice body but an unattractive face would be colloquially a "butter face." I have what I believe are pretty typical preferences for female facial beauty, so pretty much any woman w…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/24 03:25 PM
2

Some women console themselves by saying men don't find them attractive because they're not "blonde and skinny," because of course men never find non-blonde women attractive, and there's also absolutely nothing to be done to change one's hair color. Like, no, if you're a woman and men don't dig you, you're probably just really unattractive and/or severely overweight. Guys don't always chase the skinniest, or even the prettiest, but there usually does have to be at least a modicum of attraction.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/24 02:45 PM
14

I'm not sure that this follows. If it's true that "men would fuck anything," then wouldn't that, if anything, make women whom men want to fuck feel less attractive, or at least have grounds to doubt their own attractiveness? After all, if men will indeed fuck anything, then how can a women know that the guy fucking them is truly attracted to them, or is just looking for sex without regard for attraction?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/24 02:42 PM
3

While I agree that attraction at first sight is definitely a thing - for men and women - I have known at least some instances of romantic feelings and attraction developing between a man and woman out of an initially non-romantic relationship. Some might argue that there was at least an initial "seed" of attraction to begin with, a seed which sprouted during the course of the platonic relationship, and that may well be true, I don't know. But the point is that the person went from being perceive…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/24 02:01 PM
7

FWIW, my wife and I were both in our 30s when we married, and I found/find plenty of 30+ women attractive. Most women probably don't even really start looking "old" to me until they hit their 40s, which is also when a lot of women start to bump up against hard limits on their fertility. This is just my 2 cents, though; I'm not claiming to speak for all men.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/24 08:35 PM
16

If a woman's attractive she'll hold male attention a lot longer than 28.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/24 07:26 PM
1

Holy shit! You, too? I felt so alone until now.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/24 02:59 PM
2

More than one is by definition "multiple."
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/24 05:23 PM
1

1 = multiple.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/24 05:20 PM
2

Ok, but keep in mind this is in addition to your apparent claim that multiple obese women on a dating app directly told you that you're beneath them. And in the story about the club, you were supposedly somehow accused of "trespassing" when you were in a public venue. I don't know you from Adam, and again I'm not accusing you of fabrication, but you surely see how these stories may appear a tad dubious from my perspective?
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/24 05:06 PM
32

But have you tried showering and not wearing clothes encrusted with Cheetos dust? /s
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/24 04:41 PM
0

I know some guys have it harder than others, and I'm not accusing you of making things up, but if I'm being honest, some of your recent posts seem really "out there." You have either somehow been extraordinarily unlucky in how people treat you, or you may be exaggerating or outright fabricating claims. Please note that I am not accusing you of this, it's just how it appears from my perspective. In addition to the above story, I'm also referring to your story of the obese women with whom you conn…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/24 04:29 PM
2

Well, guys could also try getting to know the girl first before asking them out, in which case they're likely to be friendzoned anyway and possibly accused of ruining their friendship when they attempt to ask the girl out.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/24 04:21 PM
4

You don't "have" to: anyone is free to attempt to talk to anyone else, it's just that the good-looking dude is much more likely to find a receptive audience.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/24 04:10 PM
1

Getting someone's number at a bar or whatever is also a "cold approach," and plenty of guys do it...it just greatly helps if they're good-looking.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/24 04:06 PM
1

Um, people are getting marriage requests on OKCupid?
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/24 01:41 PM
4

Men may on average find younger women more physically attractive in a vacuum, but it doesn't mean that every man is chomping at the bit to trade in his 40+ wife for a younger model. Relationships, especially established ones, are founded on more than just physical attraction. They're founded on shared experiences, family ties, emotional bonds, and so forth. Something's merely being familiar can itself be a draw (the so-called mere exposure effect). And, on a more pragmatic note, even if middle-a…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/24 01:00 AM
1

And yet at least some men who are seemingly non-superficially appealing are in relationships. How would you account for this? Because you would either have to conclude that their female SOs have rather idiosyncratic aesthetic tastes (meaning that they do find such men physically attractive, even if society at large may not, in which case they are still being superficial, albeit in their own way), or their SOs have placed greater emphasis on other, non-superficial qualities of the men, thus negat…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/24 12:53 AM
1

And so any woman who claims that they wouldn't immediately disqualify a man based on his looks should be taken to lying?
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/24 11:40 PM
2

So would it then be accurate to say that female attraction is based on superficial traits?
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/24 11:27 PM
1

So your position is that if a woman is not immediately attracted to a man then it'll never happen?
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/24 10:48 PM
1

I think "deceptive" is a bit too strong of a word, unless the woman explicitly asks the guy if she has feelings for him and he untruthfully denies it. Furthermore, the guy is likely hoping that, even if the woman isn't INITIALLY attracted to him, she might develop feelings for him over time once she gets to know him.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/24 10:37 PM
1

Years ago I went to a music festival with my friend, his gf, and his gf's cousin. The cousin was...not attractive, to put it nicely. To put it accurately, she was gruesomely ugly, and didn't even seem to bother with makeup and a nice hairstyle, and she dressed very plainly. And while she was thin, she was more "skinny-fat" kind of thin, not a fit thin, in that she had gangly limbs and a "pooch." The morning after the festival, she was complaining about having been hit on the night before, and th…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/24 02:58 PM
4

Men who are seeking a prospective partner are also criticized for asking out a lot of women, as each woman should be regarded as a fully realized person in her own right, and not just a goal or a prize, however an average-or-lower man should be prepared to face a lot of rejection in his quest, and understand that dating is a "numbers game," and that most women are going to say no when he asks them out. Also, though each woman should be regarded as a fully realized person, the man ought not to ge…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/24 02:46 PM
2

NO!!!! Just kidding...in the last question of the OP I did allow for the possibility that neither option might be sufficiently appealing, and some people may just opt to eschew a relationship altogether under those conditions.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/24 08:54 PM
2

I mean, there are so-called "dead bedroom" relationships, and relationships in which one or both parties are unable to perform due to some dysfunction or medical condition. There are upsides to partnering, even without sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/24 08:38 PM
–

While I'm not downplaying the importance of human connection - being loved and getting laid certainly beats being unloved and not getting laid - there is also the issue that people are on the whole quite poor at so-called "affective forecasting," that is, predicting what will make them happy. At least some of the lonely single guys out there may be idealizing the notion of romantic/sexual relationships, and find that the reality is not all that it's cracked up to be when they land such relations…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/24 03:23 PM
1

Yes, they're "geeks" in the same way that Olivia Munn is a "nerd".
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/24 11:42 PM
1

In all honesty a guy with a six pack, muscles, tats, and who is 6" doesn't sound like much of a "geek", even if he owns it. This is a bit like the hot girl who says she's "such a nerd" because she likes Star Wars.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/24 11:35 PM
18

Men get hit on and propositioned all the time...if they're hot. I've literally heard of girls flat-out telling guys they like "I want your dick." An extreme example, to be sure, but lesser versions of this happen all of the time. Women will flirt with and even aggressively hit on guys they find attractive.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/24 03:21 PM
1

I never really minded paying for dinner and drinks on dates, but it's nice to get a "thank you." Some women just expected it, and offered no thanks at all.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/24 02:52 PM
–

Women believe they’re dating someone when the man thinks they’re just casual. So a woman will claim she’s in a relationship while the guy they’re ‘dating’ will say they’re single. This was my thinking, as well. Some women may be claiming they're "taken" even if they're just some dude's plan B Friday night hookup.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/07/24 02:47 PM
1

How old are you, if you don't mind me asking? I mean, some might consider 33 "old" to be looking for a partner (I myself would not, but some would), but 33 is a lot different than, say, 63.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/24 01:15 PM
1

I can recall at least one instance in which I chose not to continue an acquaintanceship (it wasn't even really a friendship) with a woman after she'd rejected me. She never explicitly rejected me, nor did she lead me on in any way, she just continually deflected my attempts to get her to hang out one-on-one. I think she was attempting to thread the needle by having us remain acquaintances who could have good conversations, but she clearly wasn't interested in taking the relationship to the next …
/r/PurplePillDebate23/07/24 04:17 PM
1

Sorry to hear about your acquaintance. Forgive me if this is too personal, but did he at least try paying for sex? After all, if a guy really is "touch-starved" to that degree, there are probably women who will touch him for money. I would imagine the experience of hiring a prostitute is probably less satisfying than getting it the "right way," but at least it's something, and would seem a better alternative than suicide? Perhaps he had other issues weighing on him as well?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/07/24 03:41 PM
1

Likely a reference to the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. true Scotsman - Wikipedia
/r/PurplePillDebate23/07/24 01:57 AM
–

QOL outcomes may depend in part on whether the lack of sex is voluntary or not. I suspect that involuntary celibacy is more detrimental to mental health than voluntary celibacy, though I'm open to being convinced otherwise.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/24 10:42 PM
1

I actually like glasses on women (provided they're a slim eyeglass frame), and a bit of a lisp is endearing to me, as well. My wife wears glasses, and I've never once suggested she switch to contacts. She doesn't have a speech impediment, though.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/24 05:04 PM
1

If you ever get into philosophy, you will see many people carping about so-called "reductionism." I firmly believe that this type of carping is just thinly-veiled anti-rationalism. Dating absolutely is a market, and there is no reason not to apply market principles to it in order to better understand human relationships from an academic point of view (not a personal one; that is, I'm not suggesting that people select a mate via the conscious application of some algorithm). None of this is to say…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/24 06:15 PM
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