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Klutzy_Charge9130 Archive

View 0 posts and 184 comments by Klutzy_Charge9130 on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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1

Oh thank god nobody had to take accountability over their flawed and outdated views. Phew!
/r/PurplePillDebate21/03/25 07:46 PM
1

It’s just frustrating as a man because we are confronted with this take all the time. Concurrently men are being criticized for being too meek and risk averse. It really is heartbreaking for young dudes. Am I supposed to man up, be bolder, take risks? Or am I supposed to tame myself, be passive, and avoid risk?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/25 06:38 PM
-1

All of that plus a little irrational confidence.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/25 06:07 PM
0

It’s not an accurate term. It’s a term that ends the conversation. Those types could absolute be called the label. An incel is someone who disagrees with women or blue pillers.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/03/25 07:24 PM
-1

100% also don’t be afraid to cancel, set boundaries, be a little selfish. Women honestly love it when you’re a little unavailable. “Can’t meet up tonight miss, I got interesting, man in demand, high social status shit going on” it makes them want to be a part of your life. It’s a healthy way of creating a natural push pull. Which is a stupid PUA tactic, yet if it’s natural because you actually have a life then it’s not sleazy or a tactic.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/03/25 04:34 PM
1

I say it all the time in this sub. “The opposite of crazy is also crazy” but that’s not how these things are often framed. We need to be specific when we talk about stuff otherwise perfectly normal, healthy behavior gets lumped in with “Toxic Masculinity” Unfortunately, talking about balance and nuance is complicated and boring. Trying to win an argument with ultimate victory is more fun for people than ending an argument with “wow that’s a good point, I could see how opposing views are not inco…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/03/25 04:19 PM
1

I just wish more people would admit that it’s a balance. Unfortunately many times people exhibit that healthy balance, yet they are shamed as if it’s toxic.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/03/25 07:52 PM
2

Its definitely an umbrella term. Many blue pillers I know live their life in a quite pragmatic “red pill” kinda way. To me red pill means ignoring social rules, and instead doing what works. Many times I argue with blue pill folks in here they will often say “grow up, of course those rules you learned as a child are bullshit. We are animals, of course we like certain things that are problematic” Yet their entire life is shouting out those rules and defending them. This I find to be rather intell…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/03/25 07:35 PM
1

Sometimes we’re drawn to something that isn’t necessarily good for us. That’s not anyone’s fault. I’d just like to see people be honest about it. If people keep lying then we will have more of the same issues.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/03/25 07:19 PM
2

I mostly agree but I think it’s also fair to criticize bad behavior. Like yes don’t choose to be with shitty people. Just make sure to criticize them in public as well. I don’t think it’s enough to just be enlightened, one should attempt to spread enlightenment as well.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/03/25 06:33 PM
1

It might make them uncomfortable sometimes but that’s no big deal if you just say “my bad, I thought you were flirting with me” and then leave. Find another person who seems to be flirting with you.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/03/25 07:26 PM
2

Correct. Im just pushing back a little that sometimes people do overstate the case. Which is understandable considering the amount of BS women have put up with for ages.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/25 08:40 PM
8

I think a lot of genuine, reasonable frustration, and fair criticisms are often dismissed out of hand as “lashing out” Sure some guys are “too online” psychos. Some though, are just expressing pretty understandable frustrations.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/25 06:51 PM
13

This is a post about personal responsibility, where the writer spends multiple paragraphs saying that if someone is mean to you, you are released from personal responsibility.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/25 05:31 PM
2

It’s the normal to NOT explicitly say what you want. So instead we have people going martyr mode and acting like everyone should know what’s written in an imaginary contract. That’s what I’m talking about.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/25 05:03 PM
3

Where I get confused is why it became a taboo to say it out loud.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/25 04:50 PM
1

Yeah people can go to far with this stuff. I think it’s perfectly fair to criticize certain social issues.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/25 04:44 PM
1

I think there’s a misunderstanding sometimes of what we’re drawn to vs what we “like” I don’t think people like when an aloof partner strings them along yet everyone falls for it at one point or another.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/25 03:53 PM
2

Yeah I just mean that both extremes are silly. People tend to over correct sometimes. All he needed to do was set a boundary somewhere along the line. Then you two might still be cordial and there might still be a chance. Instead he went all wacko.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/25 03:02 PM
76

I find that the opposite of crazy is also crazy. Simping is crazy and so is negging and whatever the heck this is.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/03/25 10:38 PM
–

People will talk out of both sides of their mouth here. It’s “we need to grow up and be less like animals!” I’m some situations and “grow up! Of course we are biased towards certain things, after all, we are animals” People will judge you harshly either way.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/03/25 05:03 PM
5

Theres lots of things people hate to admit they like. I feel like the goalposts of life are constantly moving between. “we need to be less like animals, grow up!” and “of course we like XYZ… we’re animals! Grow up!”
/r/PurplePillDebate04/03/25 04:24 PM
–

It’s just a pendulum swing. Those guys are trying to get revenge for all the negativity that was put on the average man for beauty standards of yesteryear. I’m not defending it but I see why they’re doing it. The best way to stop it is to give grace to the other side. Anyone can have whatever preference they like. Anyone. You lot can aspire to whatever partner you like, but I’m not hearing a peep when I say “your friend is nice and all but she’s a mess and not that pretty”
/r/PurplePillDebate04/03/25 04:16 PM
1

The only reason we have this issue of “good guy unsexy, bad guy sexy” paradigm is because a lot of good guys got it in their head that certain totally normal behaviors are bad or against the rules. If that weren’t the case then good guys would have a lot more luck. IMHO.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/03/25 04:02 PM
1

I think it’s not so binary as that. Like for me I always had good luck with girls but my relationships got better and I started to get better at attracting women when I started doing things that a lot of good guys think are bad things.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/03/25 03:58 PM
7

I don’t hate people but I hate hypocrisy.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/03/25 07:54 PM
1

What does that have to do with your stance that men are allowed to be sexual creatures? The way you flew off the handle to bring up a non sequitur that is so extreme really implies you just don’t want to hear YOUR OWN OPINION from a man.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/25 09:39 PM
1

Where do you think we disagree? I’m so confused….
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/25 09:25 PM
1

No it’s not. It’s trying to facilitate understanding. Which doesn’t work on zealots like you but I keep trying. I’m the one conceding points to you. Agreeing with you with gentle push back. You’re the one going ad hominem, rejecting my lived experience, pulling your hair out trying to prove that “unless you’re a zealot like me I won’t accept you on my team”.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/25 09:16 PM
1

“Who do those messages come from” your intent was to imply that men spread those messages but I’m telling you, it was my teachers and trusted adults who were mostly women. I know I’m not allowed to use my experience or perspective, but…. It’s just the truth…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/25 09:13 PM
1

You spent multiple comments blaming men for all the ills of the world….
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/25 09:02 PM
1

Ma’am. The incel dismissal does not work on me. You can believe what you want but the reason I have these convictions is because I have had success. I was already handsome and successful. So the only thing that changed was my attitude. It breaks my heart to see people like you out here perpetuating hate and lumping in decent men with actual evil psychos. Why? Because they are speaking their truth? Shame on you.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/25 09:00 PM
1

You’re clearly in a bit of a rut growth wise. I hope you go to therapy to figure out why you are this way. It’s helped me overcome a lot of issues from my childhood. For instance believing that I’m not a monster for being a normal, imperfect man. Which I struggle with because of people like you. Until then I’m going to continue to be fair to both sides when they have a good point. In addition I will never back down when I feel that cooler heads are being attacked for attempting to find a middle …
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/25 08:47 PM
5

False. You are STILL misrepresenting the speaker.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/25 08:36 PM
1

Just so you have a playbook for the future, once you have common ground with someone, usually you work to persuade them from there. That way your team can grow in strength and voice. What you should avoid is alienating and ad hominem attacking people who are already leaning towards your side of the argument.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/25 08:33 PM
1

That sounds like a label you would use to other people in your camp who you disagree only slightly with.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/25 08:30 PM
1

It honestly seems like if I was not flavored as a man you would not be so hysterical.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/25 08:27 PM
1

Blaming women for my lack of success? That’s a weird way to spell “attempting to facilitate understanding and bring extremists into the realm of reality”
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/25 08:26 PM
7

I was always taught that the content of someone’s character was the most important thing. But I guess I was raised by a bunch of dumb liberal sissies.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/25 08:22 PM
1

Dude I think you need help.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/25 08:11 PM
1

I haven’t done those things. All I said is that I agree with you that men should be allowed to be sexual creatures. Then you flew WAYYYY off the handle.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/25 08:10 PM
1

Okay well you’ve painted me: A liberal man who was raised by women and has many many female friends and close associates, as an uber conservative rape denier? For trying to oppose the fake purity culture you’re also criticizing…. Very confused by this tactic. Fire shots at your allies? Counterproductive. Edit: also I’m confused by your position that conservative men are the ones counseling boys and young men to become a passive, over sensitive, nice guy. That’s the exact opposite of their messag…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/25 07:57 PM
0

I see your position, yet I think it’s fine to give some slack to children for internalizing messages that were pushed on them. I’m sure women understand as there are a bunch of bullshit rules they are sold as well. So like let’s not perpetuate the boys vs girls crap. I hear your frustration, I can understand because there’s similar things happening on the other side.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/25 07:48 PM
2

So whenever people criticize men I’m supposed to believe their truth… but when people criticize women I’m supposed to remember that everyone is an individual and therefore none of my perspective or life experience can be used as part of the discussion? Dang I didn’t know the rules… I guess you win… your perspective is of course the MOST true. Edit: because I was being flip. Yes I have witnessed people contradict themselves. Men and women. It’s baffling to me how people get so entrenched with thi…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/25 07:12 PM
0

Yeah we all just need to be kinder to one another IMO.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/25 07:08 PM
1

Smart, healthy, self aware.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/25 07:00 PM
0

100% agree. I wish just once in my sexual awakening someone would have said these things to me. With balance, good guys can also embody those traits and achieve the “sexy edge” too.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/25 06:45 PM
3

It’s not an accusation if it’s been observed to be false. To me it sounds like people are afraid that they will sound stupid if they say their true preferences out loud.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/25 05:31 PM
9

She spent a lot of time talking about how women misunderstand their own preferences. She speaks about how beyond shallow things like looks and money, women have many requirements that are counterintuitive. She basically explains how women describe Marty milquetoast as their dream guy, yet they will never be happy with a guy like that. They want these hypermasculine high performers, yet they want them to be subservient hen pecked house husbands as well. It makes no sense.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/25 05:03 PM
4

It’s not my definition. Certainly some aren’t toxic. However, things like the tendency to be drawn to irrational confidence, risk taking, and selfishness. I have been informed by women and blue pillers that these are negative traits. With balance, risk taking and selfishness can be healthy behaviors. Yet that’s not how they’ve been framed in the arguments I see. Mostly I see women and blue pillers describing overconfident risk takers who tell them what to do as a bad thing. So like that’s not my…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/25 05:00 PM
8

I think this disregards a lot of intangible things that many women desire. Things that many women are afraid to admit. I have a comment in here about how two equally handsome, put together guys might have waaayyyy different experiences based on ATTITUDE and APPROACH. Women never want to admit they have toxic biases towards certain behaviors.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/25 04:36 PM
2

I think it displays a lack of self awareness to say that all men have to do is take care of yourself and level up. I think this completely disregards unhealthy expectations that are common among women. I think it also disregards the less PC things that many women are attracted to. Two guys that are equally attractive and put together. One is careful, considerate and respectful. One is bold, a little selfish, and less gentlemanly. For some reason ladies absolutely do gravitate towards the rakish …
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/25 04:20 PM
14

Can’t help but notice that you did completely misrepresent that video. This woman 100% disagrees with your position.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/25 04:12 PM
4

This is 2025. I just categorically dismiss this idea that men are these disappearing ghost fathers. And guess what a single father probably hears? “Don’t be mad at the situation, you’re the only one who can fix this, bootstraps and blah blah blah….”
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/25 10:59 PM
7

Okay well I guess my experience and perspective doesn’t count.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/25 10:29 PM
1

Well that’s the issue. Some people’s preferences are just preferences. Some peoples preferences are “perpetuating unfair or unhealthy beauty standards”
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/25 10:28 PM
0

I find the best way to prove you’re a good person is to get revenge by becoming the very thing you think is bad. /S
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/25 09:29 PM
3

Yup. I have to hear “locker room talk” from women at work all the time. I give any pushback, I get shouted down. The days of men being pigs openly is gone. I never participated in it yet women think it’s okay to become the thing they sought to destroy and hold modern men accountable for a yesteryear they did not participate in. If you think men are so horrible to women IRL the way they used to be in the 50s then you need to touch grass
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/25 09:28 PM
3

That’s very refreshing to hear and 180 degrees different than what I’ve been told my whole life.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/25 08:25 PM
11

To perpetuate unfair or unhealthy beauty standards.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/25 08:14 PM
10

Why are my coworkers always sliding off their chair talking about tall rich guys?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/25 08:13 PM
2

And I disagree with that. Two wrongs don’t make a right….
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/25 08:13 PM
3

Maybe on Reddit? I think you may need to touch grass.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/25 08:12 PM
10

Yes and I was always told that is wrong. So is it wrong or is it fine? Or is it only okay for women to do bad things?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/25 08:11 PM
7

It’s not so much that they talk about it. It’s the difference in the response. Man says I have preference, is met with backlash. Woman says I have preference, is met with celebration. I think it’s fine to have any preference you like. I just hold everyone to that rule.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/25 07:59 PM
-1

Mom, sisters, teachers, peers, the media, guidance counselors, college orientation speakers, coworkers, bosses, aunts, grandma, family friends, some liberal men. Just to name a few. It’s just another example of a preference that I’ve seen men judged for a lot. Just like the whole single mom’s thing. It’s very common IRL for women’s prefer to be accepted and celebrated, and men’s to be shamed and judged harshly. I would never say “I prefer skinny girls” in a public place for fear of judgement yet…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/25 07:49 PM
1

This is definitely an extreme. I think it demonstrates something though. On some level you need to just read an implicit signal, have the confidence to ASSUME she’s interested in you and then test the waters with physical touch double entendre etc. Again, without any explicit confirmation that it’s what she wants. That’s the antithesis of the playbook many modern men were taught. Which is: NEVER assume someone is interested and ALWAYS wait for explicit consent. I think the post points out the ab…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/25 07:38 PM
2

I completely agree I just tend to think that people need more balance. Good guys can be sexy if they are bold, unashamed of their desire, and confident that they are good enough and that someone might actually really enjoy sleeping with them. The problem is they are careful, ashamed of the fact that they’re horny animals, and they think they’re not good enough. See above “hot guys are all assholes”
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/25 07:33 PM
5

Wow I really appreciate this response. I’m all for the “anyone can have whatever preferences they like as long as it’s not illegal” idea. I reckon people get exactly what they deserve. So if you have these lofty standards and you’re a dirtbag then you probably will get what you deserve. Nothing. However, the rules gotta apply to both sides. Otherwise it’s just intellectually disingenuous and unfair.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/25 07:25 PM
-3

As a man, I have been browbeaten since puberty about all the aspects of women that I should not factor in to my attraction. I was always told it’s wrong to value looks so highly or a particular body shape or whatever. So forgive me I find it frustrating that these days all the sudden you can have whatever preferences you like and “people are individuals”
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/25 07:20 PM
2

Yeah I don’t understand the cognitive dissonance. I’m willing to admit an entire host of ills and evils that are done by some men. I get that everyone is an individual. Not everyone is a fat fuck with a junk food problem. However, it wouldn’t hurt my feelings if someone made that observation. I wouldn’t jump down anyone’s throat with the “acktshually!!!!!!! There’s people that aren’t fat fucks out there” I know that, now let’s talk about the problem.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/25 07:04 PM
8

I think a missing piece is that we need to give men the permission to test the waters. Respectfully of course. But I think it’s more common to tell a guy “work on yourself, never pursue anyone, it’s too risky, wait till they pick you”
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/25 07:00 PM
-15

Any idea why it’s such a widespread (not ubiquitous) view?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/25 06:44 PM
2

I think there’s plenty of attractive guys out there who are not bad people and plenty of womanizers who are not that good looking. In my opinion this is people attributing the success of jerks to their attraction. When I reckon it had more to do with attitude and approach. Risk taking, confidence, selfishness. These are attractive to women. Cautiousness, self awareness, and doting concern for the needs of others are not attractive to women. Somewhere along the line many boys were taught that it’…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/25 05:55 PM
1

I think what he’s getting at is exactly that. Men are encouraged to basically be extremely gentle, cautious, and finely attuned to the desires of their partner or else they run the risk of being labeled “bad”. Yet then when they do those things they experience killing the mood or somehow it’s creepy or cringe to ask “is this okay” “can I kiss you” or the famous “where’s my hug” In the last example the person is ostensibly following the rules, being considerate, yet this example is a classic hypo…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/25 04:48 PM
1

I think everyone needs to grow up. Women need to grow up and realize that there is a certain way (nonviolent bullying) women often treat men that exacerbate these issues. Men need to grow up and start standing up to women who are bullies.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/25 04:39 PM
2

It’s because of the way kids have been taught about courtship and relationships in recent decades. There’s no rule that husband material can’t also include sexiness and manliness. However because of the paradigm that has arisen: good boys following the rules, mitigating risk, being super attentive to others emotions and not wanting to be a bother. Bad boys doing all the risky, sexy things. All the good sexy things have been attributed to “bad boys” So husband material has become synonymous with …
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/25 04:24 PM
2

Disagree. I think good guys need to be encouraged to take more risks in dating. Otherwise women will end up dating the same shitty guys. They’re the only ones who are willing to take risks and break those rules all the good guys follow.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/25 04:05 PM
–

It’s from an old classic anime about growing up. Just means you gotta take a chance.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/02/25 10:26 PM
1

Okay spread the word. Maybe make a post about that someday if you truly believe it. See how many women agree with you.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/02/25 09:36 PM
2

Okay try this one “men can also be abused and trapped by partners”
/r/PurplePillDebate25/02/25 09:33 PM
2

Okay I hope you do. I sincerely doubt that you do, however. If you’d like to prove me wrong. Please type out “men are also allowed to use their trauma to excuse bad behavior”
/r/PurplePillDebate25/02/25 09:28 PM
4

I agree with you OP. I encourage you to use this same logic when approaching men’s issues.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/02/25 09:14 PM
–

I hear you. I think it’s scary for people to encourage young men to “boldly pursue” anything. Nobody trust young men, they assume 90% are violent psychos. So instead the advice is all about becoming a perfect man and passively accepting whatever attention you hopefully get. The truth is you must swing the bat, Naota.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/02/25 08:39 PM
9

Preach
/r/PurplePillDebate25/02/25 07:58 PM
11

Personally I despise the idea that you can’t criticize a societal….. trend? When I was browbeaten and blamed for all the toxicity of men since the dawn of time. I get it everyone is an individual, not everyone is addicted to junk food but I don’t get all bummed out when someone makes an observation “wow there’s a lot of fat fucks out there”
/r/PurplePillDebate25/02/25 07:56 PM
–

I believe in you man! It’s exhausting but you must take risks and keep putting yourself out there. Feel free to message if you like. You will figure it out! I know you can.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/02/25 06:25 PM
–

I believe you will have some luck eventually if you’re honestly trying.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/02/25 06:15 PM
–

Gotta keep trying. On all fronts. My point was just that a lot of guys are not hideous trolls. They just never allow themselves to feel attraction, and they never allow themselves to act on it. As for not having any success. You must redouble your efforts on all fronts.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/02/25 06:00 PM
–

I agree but I want to push back a little on the endless self improvement. At some point you need to FLIRT, SELL yourself, and boldly pursue a person in a romantic or sexual way. In short, you need to allow yourself to feel a desire, and then take action to get it. All the advice I see is “don’t even think about sex, just become a perfect human and it will come” this sets people up for a lifetime of passively waiting on the whims of the universe. Rather than taking responsibility for their own ne…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/02/25 05:02 PM
54

I have seen women act unacceptably when denied or scorned romantically. When my friends have ever been turned down it was no big deal and we all had a laugh. I would not stay friends with a man who threw a drink, berated, or otherwise mistreated a lady for denying his advances. Yet I do not see women policing their friends in the same manner.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/02/25 04:55 PM
–

I’m just saying. Women pick up on the fact that you’re not present, because you’re so focused on them you’re not really partaking in the experience. Also as a man if you’re not excited it’s…. Obvious… so as much as people hate to hear it these days, men’s sexual satisfaction is also important. Women absolutely do not like it when you’re timid and too careful and too concerned with their experience. I know people hate to admit it. Edit: Just trying to push back on the endless self perfection. I t…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/02/25 04:40 PM
1

I think you should stay in your lane. No need to specify what sex we’re talking about. There does seem to be a cultural phenomenon where female sex is always beautiful and pure and a gift. Whereas men’s is predatory and evil. So that is kinda lame. Because it does make men feel like they need to be passive and just be grateful for any scraps they get.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/02/25 04:13 PM
–

I’d say that a devil may care attitude and a touch of selfishness is pretty important once you’ve taken care of your appearance and such. Like if you make it your goal to get what you want from sex. Women honestly respond better when you do NOT focus on their pleasure at all and instead a little selfish.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/02/25 04:06 PM
2

As a guy who is pretty good looking I can say anecdotally that when I act like my mom tells me to act I attract fewer women than when I act like my sleazy uncle would tell me to act. And before anyone says it’s attracting the “wrong kind” I tend to disagree. The sleazy playboy shtick works pretty well on good girls too. So like. Being gentlemanly hinders your chances and diminishes opportunities. In my honest opinion.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/02/25 06:50 PM
1

I agree. Yet I still think it’s fair to criticize a social phenomenon.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/02/25 06:34 PM
0

I take a little umbrage with this take. I see it all the time “if you don’t like the way people are then don’t interact with them” I think it’s perfectly fair to criticize a widespread problem.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/02/25 06:32 PM
2

Oh, I was just told it’s wrong.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/02/25 06:25 PM
–

First step to combatting TRP is admitting that it works and why it works. Part of debate is conceding the truths in the opposing position. So you can use time and energy more effectively to oppose the ideas that are more debatable. In my honest opinion.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/02/25 06:17 PM
1

Nobody wants to tell men that boldly, confidently pursuing someone is a good thing. I think people assume 99% of men are violent psychos so everyone promotes a much more passive route to dating.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/02/25 04:30 PM
1

I think “try harder” is underrated advice. Seems like it’s pretty common to tell someone to focus on literally everything but actually trying to pursue someone.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/25 07:58 PM
1

Im not red pill but I see why red pill has so much traction. Im pretty good looking and let me tell you, being polite and professional is not as effective as being a little bit bold and rakish and rogue-ish. What works, I’m sorry to say, is basically the opposite of what I was taught as a kid on how to be a gentleman. Caveats and nuance abound, but yeah I kinda agree with red pill on that stuff.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/25 06:21 PM
7

I think if you’re a good person then you’re allowed to pursue whoever.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/25 09:41 PM
1

It was a harmless, low stakes opener. Usually followed by “oh shit my bad well I’m so and so, I guess now I do know ya” I think it illustrates the point though. Women seemingly liked it when I did it. But they didn’t like to hear about my success using it. It’s kinda a microcosm of this whole thing.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/25 09:38 PM
5

I just find it intellectually disingenuous to act like sex and romance is such a trivial and unnecessary thing when it suits your argument. So good on you for admitting that women actually like to be boldly pursued by men for sex and romance.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/25 09:25 PM
1

“Do I know you?” Or “you look familiar….” Apparently that’s false pretense and immoral. But it works so much better than “Hey I saw you from across the room and yada yada yada” I’m just illustrating the point that what works has been scolded and shamed out of a lot of us. Who knows why.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/25 09:17 PM
5

Of course you did, it’s so natural and probably the best way. That’s why I’m so confused. Here to tell yall, hit on them, whoever it is, however you met them. You’re allowed to do that. Wish someone would have said that to me when I was a young man.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/25 09:15 PM
2

Be interesting.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/25 09:05 PM
4

Strange I’m always hearing from BPers that sex and love is not important at all…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/25 09:03 PM
3

This post has single handedly reversed decades of browbeating about how to be professional around women. /S
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/25 09:01 PM
1

The problem is that even if you believe that money is the root of all evil. That’s not really a good excuse to be a broke loser. People will ridicule you and say you didn’t have what it takes to be a success. Nobody, or very few will perceive you as some enlightened genius.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/25 08:54 PM
18

Somehow all of our parents met at work and school and from their friend group. I was explicitly warned by parents, teachers, etc that you should never date a coworker or classmate. Furthermore nowadays it’s frowned upon to attempt to make a friendship romantic, because its “duplicitous nice guy behavior” Somewhere along the line we took all the things that were normal and harmless about dating and labeled them wrong and dangerous. No clue why or who started that. Edit: I’m not being facetious or…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/25 08:48 PM
4

One time I told a group of girls a pick up line that worked for me with great effect. I was judged harshly and told that it was wrong and ungentlemanly. But it worked really well. So…. What’s a guy supposed to do?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/25 08:41 PM
1

It’s hilarious and makes no sense but I’ll continue to take advantage of it. No sense in being chaste if it only harms your social cred and what’s more makes people think there’s something wrong with you.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/25 02:27 PM
1

Like 15% is my best guess. Equal parts vanity and longevity.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/25 01:02 AM
1

Hey, I guess we agree to disagree. I appreciate your responses. It honestly sounds like we only disagree slightly in the same way that those thinkers do. I guess I feel the need to push back because I have compulsions everyday that are certainly biological but I reject them for a healthier path. I just don’t want people out there to have excuses to behave like animals. Or to believe that someone is lower than them because of some biological trait.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 02:00 PM
1

All I’m saying is that things like preferences and cultural things are impossible to evaluate. Is it because of selective pressure and adaptation? Or because of culture? There are neutral How would you prove that? I find a lot of your evidence to be “just so stories” Look man. I suggest you read the arguments between people much smarter than us. My position: Richard Lewontin Steven rose Leon Kamin Your position: Leda Cosmides David Buss Jerome barkow My position is that you can come up with a mi…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/25 05:46 PM
–

I agree that certain things we like are biological. I disagree that everything that we desire is good. I disagree that just because we have some desire, that desire is somehow the pinnacle of evolution. A lot of sexual selection in nature is for traits that are energetically expensive and flashy. Big bright plumage might allow you to get a mate but it might also attract predators it also is a superfluous expenditure of energy and resource. You can say something is biologically driven if there’s …
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/25 09:09 PM
–

Appeal to nature: a logical fallacy that assumes something is good or right because it is natural. Common examples are: -It’s natural for women to desire aggressive men. It may be, but it’s not necessarily positive. -it’s natural for men to desire skinny women or busty women. But it’s not necessarily positive. Where I REALLY get irked is when people try to say that aggressive people, or busty women, or whatever are not only naturally more desirable but biologically superior or more evolutionaril…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/25 08:23 PM
–

You’re still stuck on intragenerational trends. Which is just categorically not evolution. “Neutral traits are a thing” you just keep agreeing with me. “Thrives on diversity” Bringing up the fact that there is so much diversity, and that traits may move in either direction over generations is still agreeing with me. It’s difficult to say what traits are biologically superior/evolutionarily advantageous/more natural when you don’t see a consistent trend over time. So it’s unfalsifiable to say “th…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/25 07:01 PM
–

But you’ll never know. One of the main criticisms of these ideas is that they are unfalsifiable. We can’t observe the day to day culture of our ancestors. We can only observe their genes and some pottery and dwellings. Culture things like “tall guys are hot” or “aggressive, risk prone men are hot” are not like genes which you can see were rare and then over time became near ubiquitous. They’re not as easy to prove as seeing a gene allele go from 10% of population in one generation and then 95% t…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/25 06:44 PM
–

I said Evo psy can be valid in certain instances. Yes we do have measurable physiological responses to certain things. I’m not arguing against that. Obesity is a huge problem, making people much less healthy. Many people believe it’s got something to do with how we have a physiological predisposition towards gorging on sweet stuff, and now we have much more access to it. So here is a valid conclusion you could draw from that. Our physiological response to consuming sugar has lead to obesity. Wha…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/25 06:20 PM
3

Just so we’re clear. You’re totally cool with all forms of discrimination, and that good men deserve to suffer in silence about their feelings… Wasn’t this thread about empathy? lol
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/25 11:40 PM
3

It’s like profiling. I can’t imagine what it must feel like to be a totally normal peaceful person but because you look a certain way everyone thinks you’re a bad person. Kind of like pretty privilege, if you’re ugly people think you’re more likely to be a criminal. How arbitrary and heartbreaking. Or I guess you don’t think it’s that heartbreaking?
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/25 11:18 PM
4

It’s not a valid example. It’s exaggeration and dismissal of the idea that if you’re truly pure of heart then nothing bad will happen to you or, if you’re truly a decent person then you have no reason to feel insulted when someone insults you.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/25 10:52 PM
5

Yes of course. That’s a good example. Being profiled sucks.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/25 10:16 PM
6

So say you’re in trial for a crime you didn’t commit… you would plead guilty? Because you’re such a true Scotsman?
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/25 09:55 PM
5

Believe it or not. Nobody can see your conscience. Furthermore decent men also have feelings that get hurt when you lump them in with literal criminals. Hilarious to think that just because someone is pure of heart they wouldn’t feel sad if they were constantly treated as pure evil.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/25 09:36 PM
7

Disagree im constantly being browbeaten about how it’s “safer” to assume every man is a violent psycho.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/25 09:20 PM
6

Maybe to children and other women. Edit: holy moly my original reply was just to point out that men can be empathetic too, and that there is a specific gap in lady’s empathy. Like for men.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/25 06:51 PM
1

They pulled the plug on equality at the perfect time.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/25 06:11 PM
1

I just think the world needs time to equilibrate with the new normal. We have a hard time reevaluating what we’re “gender roles” and now they’re just “roles” whats most important, who is responsible for what. And yes we all, women included need to grow up and just split the responsibilities of a relationship. You’re not going to be a princess 100% of the time and he’s not going to be your uber manly lumberjack 100% of the time. Sometimes you gotta give that lumberjack the princess treatment and …
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/25 06:09 PM
–

Yeah we should all be kinder to each other. I’m really trying to persuade these days rather than argue.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/25 06:00 PM
2

I find that context is key. I’ve been ostracized by certain groups and embraced by others. I’ve been the AF and the BB. I’ve been the nice guy and Thad Thunderjohnson.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/25 05:59 PM
2

This could have been a fruitful debate if you phrased it as. “Women do appreciate being sexualized in certain situations” which I think is the crux of the issue. You made it a little argumentative and sent bad faith bat signals with the “all women crave rich guys” schtick.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/25 05:50 PM
1

Then why haven’t humans become more homogeneous looking. Why are we still so diverse in our appearance, cultures, and mating habits? If what you said were true, your theory would suggest that over time everyone would slowly converge on those traits. You even mentioned multiple cultural things that can make you more attractive. I’m not saying that being tall and conventionally attractive and rich is not going to increase your chances of getting laid but I disagree that it’s because tall guys are …
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/25 04:22 PM
1

The reason I bring it up is because agriculture was a huge change for humans. It changed our diet and culture like overnight. In that case what is natural? My take is it’s impossible to say.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/25 01:19 AM
1

Categorically disagree. Do you like to eat grains?
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/25 12:29 AM
1

I started this all by saying that certain things about Evo psych are valid. I fully believe that men and women behave differently because of certain biological differences. Where I disagree is when people say “X is attractive because of evolution” when evolutionarily speaking pretty much any trait could either be a burden or a blessing. Including things we don’t think are attractive. So that’s why I take issue with saying that any style of human is “better suited” or biologically superior and th…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/25 12:27 AM
1

I’m not saying that certain things aren’t nearly universally attractive. I’m only saying that I don’t think it’s satisfying evidence to say oh yeah it’s because is the most “natural” or “most fit” from a biology perspective.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/25 12:11 AM
2

I’m not disagreeing with you that some things are more common than others. Only that they are, at best, equally as “natural”.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/25 12:01 AM
1

Sexual dimorphism is a scientific truth. Making claims about what type of mating strategy is most evolutionarily advantageous is not. I disagree. Depending on which culture you exist in it may be better to be chaste or not. The exceptions matter because that’s a major criticism of evo psych. Culture is too fluid to say that being big and strong is ALWAYS better or being chaste and ladylike is ALWAYS better.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/25 10:33 PM
2

Ya got me. I could have been more specific. But that’s what I’m getting at. It’s a misunderstanding of evolution and biology to just say that “big strong men are the most fit” or “women with a certain hip to waist ratio are the most fit” because all that matters is that you lived long enough to reproduce and pass your genes on. Many of the things people pose as being attractive because of biology or evolution are often equally likely to make you less fit. Being big and strong is not so helpful a…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/25 09:58 PM
2

Well there are societies that believe that having multiple men “impregnate” one woman gives the kid the god traits of those men. It’s scientifically false but it leads to one kid having multiple male father figures, which means the mom and the kid have more protectors. So in that case uber promiscuity leads to more security.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/25 09:28 PM
2

Yes it is. A trait that increases probability of survival to a reproductive age and passing on genes. Strictly speaking the changing ratios of genes or traits over time in a population.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/25 09:23 PM
1

No I totally believe in sexual dimorphisms and Evo psych is valuable to help us understand things like you’re saying. But to extrapolate that to believe that being a strapping, blue collar guy is the MOST sexy and MOST likely strategy to passing on your genes is a stretch. At most it indicates that having an interest in useful tools is advantageous , or having a maternal instinct is.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/25 08:38 PM
4

I mean there’s no concrete gene that puts you in a category of “aggressive muscled male” vs “wimpy, agreeable male” a person can decide to become aggressive or choose to build an impressive physique. Because a person can change themselves between these categories during their lifetime, you can’t establish the true numerical value expressed as a ratio of traits within a population and how it changes over time.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/25 08:25 PM
4

Oh we are dimorphic for sure and sex differences are real. I just mean there’s no way to make a claim that being a truck guy is more evolutionarily advantageous.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/25 08:14 PM
2

Leading to a higher probability of survival.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/25 07:52 PM
3

I’d say this is where Evo psych has merit. Because the physiological response to certain foods is ubiquitous across populations. Sugar tastes good to everyone. I’d say it’s about exactly 50/50 because we have a chemical predisposition towards gorging ourselves on certain foods, at the same time companies are actively trying to use those responses to supercharge our consumption. Yet with a little education and maybe a little effort to eliminate “healthy food” deserts, cultural change can definite…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/25 07:51 PM
6

Your take is that in tough times the big strong dominant archetype is going to get you the most sex or romance. While I can’t prove you wrong, such is the weakness of evolutionary psychology, I can present a million examples of diverse human mating behaviors. For instance chimp leaders are not always the biggest strongest one, sometime it’s the most social, most altruistic one.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/25 07:35 PM
2

You even describe how different mating strategies work different in different social conditions. Population is the unit of evolution and generations are the base unit of time. So if people can change their dating strategy intra-lifetime and if populations are never truly defined then you’re not really able to make a claim about what is most evolutionarily advantageous. It’s unfalsifiable.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/25 07:11 PM
16

I’d say it’s even less biology. Name any “appeal to nature” that’s common in this sub and I will refute it. Evo psy is valuable to understand our reaction to certain stimuli but I believe sex and romance is way too complicated by culture to really make any conclusions about what is the most biologically or evolutionarily advantageous in terms of dating strategy.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/25 07:02 PM
1

I’m not a possessive or jealous person. Would not bother me a bit.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/25 06:58 PM
1

I’ll pretend to be risky and sexy at first. Then once I get laid I’ll be sure to let it slip that I’m actually a stand up gentleman. But you gotta lead with the sex appeal.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/25 06:55 PM
–

INB4: I don’t think it’s fruitful to say “just avoid those types of women” I think that with widespread cultural phenomena or societal norms, telling someone to either deal with it or opt out is just bad faith argumentation tactics. That’s the same as if we were living in a more chauvinistic past and someone told women who (rightfully) desired change that they should “just quit dating” or “find a man who aligns with your more enlightened ideals”. The point was that society was for the most part …
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/25 06:53 PM
3

All the older people I know met their spouses at work or school or through mutual friends. The internet and social media have thoroughly discouraged those avenues.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/25 08:20 PM
1

I think trying hard at anything will eventually make you look lucky. While I agree that there is an aspect of luck. We all need to put ourselves in the way of luck to experience it. Getting struck by lightning is proverbially rare. You can increase your chances in a million different ways though.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/25 02:48 PM
1

I believe it’s the reason for a lot of resentment. If you have been told that pursuing women at all is wrong then you view men who are successful with women as “bad” or they have some ethereal “alpha” qualities. When in reality he may have just actually tried. He may have spoken to and flirted with a woman in a confident way.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/25 02:42 PM
1

I kinda agree in that you should only pursue a woman so long as she might add something to your life. She should like you for you. But I think a lot of men out there need more inspiration to GO OUT AND TRY HARDER, TAKE RISKS. I’m sick of the advice that you should just focus on yourself and women will come to you. At some point you need to make an effort to get the thing you want. You can’t just collect tackle, at some point you gotta go to the lake and use it. Many men out there are worthy of l…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/25 05:24 PM
1

I don’t think it has anything to do with women raising their standards. Sure it hurts my feeling to hear the way women talk about short guys but frankly I’m pretty confident in my ability to overcome my shortcomings with charisma and balance in other areas. I think a bigger problem in dating is that we have taught a lot of kids that being confident is negative, being bold is negative, desiring someone is creepy. When based on my research, people love when you boldly approach them with confidence…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/25 05:12 PM
1

I think you should say that one part louder. The part about how men are allowed to desire sex without being horny sociopaths. I think this is a core misunderstanding by both sides.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/25 05:02 PM
2

That’s great for you it shows you make earnest and thoughtful decisions in dating. I do think the phenomenon is real. Gold diggers exist, handsome loser playboys exist. This is the less interesting case though, IMO. What interests me is how attitudes can land the same guy in either AF or BB scenarios. I think that’s where a lot of the big feelings come from. Guys who whine about being a BB have this image of a cocky, bold, playboy being the AF. While they missed out because they were being humbl…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/25 04:58 PM
5

I acknowledged that there are idiots out there who genuinely behave this way acting like women or men are evil, no matter what. I’m just pushing back that there are real preferences that are widespread that I think are shallow and problematic. A girl looking past character flaws because the man’s apparent “value/clout/look/height” are so great is the same as a guy who looks past character flaws because a lady has great tits or whatever. And as for af/bb it does suck to be second choice, women im…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/01/25 08:03 PM
3

I think if the banal platitudinal advice were “try harder, it’s okay to desire someone” then that would probably be good. As it stands the advice most commonly given is “don’t even focus on dating, just focus on yourself” I wish someone would have pulled me aside as a young man and said “you need to be open to the idea that many women might actually desire you” rather than what I got which was basically that men have been evil predators since the dawn of time, never ever ever assume that a girl …
/r/PurplePillDebate02/01/25 07:46 PM
2

That’s refreshing. Unfortunately many of the women I’m close with are not policing each other. It seems like everyone has the mentality that the men have been so evil for so long it’s time for pay back and there’s no limit to making men the butt of a joke.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/01/25 07:36 PM
1

It makes it impossible to discuss this stuff in a fruitful way.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/01/25 07:30 PM
1

It seems to be the route that is supported most strongly by current social programming. I strongly disagree with the appeal to nature that so commonly follows this issue.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/01/25 07:24 PM
6

I think calling it an incel proxy abuser fantasy is reductive and dismissive. I feel there are valid reasons to criticize general trends in dating preferences. Some vitriolic keyboard warriors are loud and annoying. However, folks engaging in good faith debates I feel do make valid points along the lines of what you mentioned in your post.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/01/25 07:20 PM
1

I disagree. Only thing making it weird is social programming. The sooner we do away with appeals to nature and similar logical fallacies surrounding this topic we will be able to do away with these phenomena.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/01/25 07:09 PM
1

My whole childhood I was told not to pursue colleagues or coworkers because it was inappropriate. Come to find out that’s how most people used to meet. I think there has been a general shifting away from it being socially acceptable to hit on or pursue anyone at any time. Even if you were in the same social circles.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/01/25 07:07 PM
3

He might learn a thing or two! I maintain my position. ANYONE, getting upset about the numbers just means they’re not interested in solving problems.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/12/24 08:21 PM
4

In my experience women are more red pill in their choices and attitudes than the facade they put up.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/12/24 08:13 PM
6

Maybe. These numbers certainly support that idea. I just think that what is measured can be managed. Why make a chore chart? Why make a check list? Why have a budget? Because if you didn’t have it you would just have two apes with imperfect memories screeching at each other.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/12/24 08:11 PM
1

I think people get exactly what they deserve. That won’t stop me from criticizing stupid societal phenomena. I find this user often puts all focus on the individual. Which I agree, it’s your fault of you chose a bad partner just because they were rich, hot, etc. Where I disagree is that I think it is still valid to examine and critique the phenomena. What systems and environments lead to this outcome? How could we fix that? And so on…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/12/24 08:05 PM
8

I think the truth matters.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/12/24 07:49 PM
–

It’s like when people say “money isn’t everything”. Go ask anyone what success means. I reckon you’ll get a lot of “good job” “big house” etc etc. People will say that you should be happy being single and “work on yourself”. However, people use sexual/romantic interest as a proxy for value and no matter how perfect you are, SOCIETY will judge you based on those countable data. It’s hard to count “happiness” or “enlightenment” and it’s hard to count “human value” it’s easy to count dollars and se…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/12/24 07:15 PM
–

Anyone arguing against this is acting in bad faith or they’re just not interested in intellectual honesty.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/12/24 06:51 PM
5

Any time you ARGUE rather than PERSUADE you run the risk of creating a more determined foe in the future. Similarly, trying to use bad faith tactics will do much the same. IMHO.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/12/24 06:44 PM
1

Look man I’ve been pretty successful with women and I still feel like it’s valid to whine about some of these issues. For instance I can tell you that being handsome and gentlemanly will get you laid. It may even get you a wife. But if you want to be more successful then you gotta do more than just “work on yourself” you gotta learn to flirt, sell yourself. Which gets left out of the conversation because the prevailing wisdom is that 90% of men are violent psychos. You wouldn’t want violent psyc…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/24 07:21 PM
1

While I agree that “fair” is an unproductive word and everyone gets exactly what they deserve, I think it is worth talking about. If for no other reason than I’ve had to listen to the perception of “fairness” my whole life even though, frankly I didn’t contribute to building the world and its unfairness. If everyone else can bitch in the pursuit of fairness then I think it’s only FAIR to let everyone bitch.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/24 06:50 PM
-1

Exactly. It’s intellectually disingenuous to invent some moral code only to hold others to said code while you do whatever you want. Since when is feminism about acting like a deadbeat dad?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/24 06:19 PM
0

I agree. Yet, I see it very often. One side or the other that says “x” is unrealistic. It’s wrong to want “Y” Which is it yall? Is there a set of rules for what you’re allowed to be attracted to? Or should everyone be obligated to give broke ugly losers some play every once in a while?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/24 06:10 PM
3

It’s terribly frustrating. As a decently handsome guy I’ve experienced how different strategies work better with women even though it might not be strictly speaking PC or “gentlemanly”. However, women will tell you all this advice how a gentleman does XYZ super simpy behavior. Then they call those gentleman duplicitous nice guys.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/24 06:07 PM
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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