MarioWilson122 Archive

Upvotes	Title	Category	Author	Subreddit	Date (UTC)

Showing the 1,000 most recent of 6,391 comments.

Upvotes	Comment on	Subreddit	Date (UTC)
–	Men need to display invulnerability rather I'd say vulnerability and invulnerability aren't really opposites. Having your guard down isn't what makes vulnerability attractive. Having your life together is. A man who can openly talk about a rough childhood, past failures, or insecurities without looking for someone else to fix them comes across very differently from a man who is still carrying those wounds around. The information can be exactly the same, but the emotional state behind it isn't. That's where a lot of the confusion comes fr…	/r/PurplePillDebate	29/07/26 08:15 AM
–	Tradwives reduce men to a paycheck and a bodyguard while Feminists want an actual partner. Modern feminism isn't the point. The expectations are. My argument was that, in practice, many modern feminists still expect men to carry traditional responsibilities while rejecting comparable traditional responsibilities for women. If you don't think that pattern exists, then explain why. Simply saying "that's not actual feminism" doesn't address the point I made. Whether you call it modern feminism, a subset of feminists, or something else doesn't change the behavior I described. My claim was…	/r/PurplePillDebate	29/07/26 07:11 AM
–	Women are Not Entitled to Men's Credulity towards their "Lived Experiences" and Self-Reports Regarding Dating, Men, etc. I think the biggest issue is that actions usually tell you more than words. If someone genuinely believed the average man was as dangerous as some of the rhetoric suggests, you'd expect that belief to consistently shape their behavior. Instead, many women willingly meet unfamiliar men through dating apps, go clubbing, move away for school or work, and date strangers. Those aren't the actions you'd expect if they truly believed the average man posed that level of risk. That doesn't mean women nev…	/r/PurplePillDebate	29/07/26 07:03 AM
–	CMV: On the topics of "red pill women should avoid dating red pill men" vs "red pill men should avoid dating red pill women," the latter is more true, even though people are more likely to say the former I don't think we're actually disagreeing about what RPW is supposed to do. We're disagreeing about whether many women who identify as RPW consistently apply the same reasoning. I don't expect RPW to advocate for men's interests. Like you said, people are generally self interested. My point is that if RP reasoning leads to conclusions that are uncomfortable for women, many self described RP women stop following that reasoning. They accept ideas like hypergamy, male initiation, or the realities of…	/r/PurplePillDebate	29/07/26 06:50 AM
–	Not having sex is an acceptable outcome That's a wild comparison. Anyway, it's disrespectful and can definitely be a nuisance, but in a situation like this, if she isn't telling him to leave her alone, then he isn't really doing anything wrong. She may even be entertained by it, or he could just be joking around. Without more context, there's no way to judge it properly because the details matter. To me, a man doing this is likely not that serious anyway if its done legally. Doing that is pretty silly, especially if he's asking in cir…	/r/PurplePillDebate	29/07/26 06:07 AM
–	CMV: On the topics of "red pill women should avoid dating red pill men" vs "red pill men should avoid dating red pill women," the latter is more true, even though people are more likely to say the former Oh, okay. The way you asked it could've easily been interpreted as asking what kinds of views I meant, which is why I answered "blue pill ones." The main ones I see are expecting men to initiate and pursue while rarely expecting women to do the same, expecting traditional masculinity while rejecting comparable traditional expectations for women, putting most of the responsibility for fixing dating on men through self-improvement, defending women's standards instead of questioning whether some ar…	/r/PurplePillDebate	29/07/26 06:01 AM
–	CMV: On the topics of "red pill women should avoid dating red pill men" vs "red pill men should avoid dating red pill women," the latter is more true, even though people are more likely to say the former I think we're talking about two different kinds of accountability. I'm not saying RPW never tells women to improve. From what I've seen, it often does. My point is about whether the underlying principles are applied consistently beyond relationship advice. For example, does the same willingness to challenge women carry over into discussions about unrealistic standards, entitlement, hypergamy, expectations of male initiation, financial expectations, or how much women should adapt versus expecting…	/r/PurplePillDebate	29/07/26 05:51 AM
–	CMV: On the topics of "red pill women should avoid dating red pill men" vs "red pill men should avoid dating red pill women," the latter is more true, even though people are more likely to say the former I'm not sure if you're serious or not. I would've thought you'd already know what RP and BP views are. They're not exactly hard to find if you didn't.	/r/PurplePillDebate	29/07/26 05:44 AM
–	Women handle rejection worse then men I think that's part of it. Most men experience rejection repeatedly from a young age because they're expected to approach. Over time, most either learn to handle it or stop approaching altogether. Women, on average, are far less likely to be in that position, so when they are rejected, it can hit harder simply because it's a much less familiar experience. The incentives are different too. If a man stops approaching after a few rejections, there's a good chance his dating life largely stops with …	/r/PurplePillDebate	29/07/26 05:31 AM
–	CMV: On the topics of "red pill women should avoid dating red pill men" vs "red pill men should avoid dating red pill women," the latter is more true, even though people are more likely to say the former I don't doubt that RPW encourages women to look at what they can do differently in their relationships. That's a good thing, but it isn't what I was talking about. My point wasn't whether RPW gives constructive advice. It was whether self-described RP women consistently apply RP principles when those principles point toward conclusions that are uncomfortable for women rather than men. Those are different questions. A community can encourage women to improve themselves while still holding mostly …	/r/PurplePillDebate	29/07/26 05:06 AM
–	CMV: On the topics of "red pill women should avoid dating red pill men" vs "red pill men should avoid dating red pill women," the latter is more true, even though people are more likely to say the former I think that still assumes the conclusion. You’re saying Red Pill is a product of trauma and a need for control, then using that diagnosis to explain why Red Pill men reject your description of it. That makes the claim difficult to challenge, because disagreement itself becomes evidence of the pathology. There may be men who are drawn to Red Pill after painful experiences, but that does not establish that trauma created the framework or that its observations are false. People often become intere…	/r/PurplePillDebate	29/07/26 04:53 AM
–	Not having sex is an acceptable outcome Nah, it's desperate, but it's still legal as long as they're just asking in a respectful way and aren't making threats or coercing anyone.	/r/PurplePillDebate	29/07/26 04:48 AM
–	CMV: On the topics of "red pill women should avoid dating red pill men" vs "red pill men should avoid dating red pill women," the latter is more true, even though people are more likely to say the former Basically, they're mostly blue pill views with a slight touch of red pill, yet that's enough for some women to call themselves RP.	/r/PurplePillDebate	29/07/26 04:46 AM
–	Tradwives reduce men to a paycheck and a bodyguard while Feminists want an actual partner. No, especially not modern feminists. They do not respect men more simply because they expect more from them. A person can demand more from you while still viewing you primarily through what you provide. Modern feminism often expands the list of expectations placed on men. Men are still expected to earn, protect, initiate, lead when necessary, stay emotionally strong, be confident, be sexually attractive, split domestic work equally, and provide constant emotional support. That is not freeing men…	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/07/26 08:23 PM
–	Not having sex is an acceptable outcome As long as the 10th one was done without ill intent, then all is good. It just looks very desperate, of course.	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/07/26 08:08 PM
–	CMV: On the topics of "red pill women should avoid dating red pill men" vs "red pill men should avoid dating red pill women," the latter is more true, even though people are more likely to say the former I think you're framing Red Pill in a way that most RP men wouldn't recognize. First, Red Pill isn't the claim that "all men are traumatized." It's a descriptive framework for understanding recurring dating patterns and incentives. Whether someone adopts it because of a bad breakup is separate from whether they think its observations are accurate. Plenty of people only become interested in economics after losing money. That doesn't make economics "just financial trauma." Second, Red Pill doesn't …	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/07/26 07:58 PM
–	CMV: On the topics of "red pill women should avoid dating red pill men" vs "red pill men should avoid dating red pill women," the latter is more true, even though people are more likely to say the former In my experience, many self-described RP women seem to adopt a few RP talking points, but most of their views still align more closely with mainstream dating beliefs.	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/07/26 07:51 PM
–	CMV: On the topics of "red pill women should avoid dating red pill men" vs "red pill men should avoid dating red pill women," the latter is more true, even though people are more likely to say the former Yeah, they are pretenders for sure, and I've called them out about it. I believe one is a mod, or was very recently.	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/07/26 07:40 PM
–	Most people in comitted relationships retain backup options. So much that I think it’s completely normal and reasonable that they do. Get out of here. There ain't nothing wrong with saying that. If you took it as some kind of personal attack, that's on you. I never said you disagreed either. I said you were arguing against a point I never made. Those aren't the same thing. It seems like you're taking things the wrong way while also making stuff up. So if anything you will need to learn to comprehend better.	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/07/26 07:35 PM
–	Continuing a “Friendship” with a woman is not a good idea. Maybe so, but that shitty thing is the only way to really know for sure. This can, of course, be done if he were to ever break up with her as well, not just to see if he would be willing to cheat in the process of finding out.	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/07/26 07:26 PM
–	Men should also wear wigs, height boosters , normal makeup etc I'm sure some men would if it weren't a turnoff for a lot of women. That's the biggest difference. Women generally have far more social acceptance for appearance enhancement than men do. Some men can pull off makeup, wigs, or other enhancements, but they're the exception, not the rule. For most men, heavy makeup or obvious cosmetic enhancements are more likely to hurt their attractiveness than help it. Rockstars are an obvious example, but that aesthetic was also far more popular decades ago tha…	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/07/26 06:14 AM
2	Women care about personality but only if they know you for some time Those examples don’t prove personality matters more than looks or money. They only prove that unattractive men can still get interest under the right circumstances, which nobody denies. The real question is who gets noticed, who gets chances, and how easily. Looks, status, social proof, and proximity all affect that before personality ever has time to work. A woman liking you after months in the same environment is not the same as personality overriding attraction from the start. Personality can…	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/07/26 05:46 AM
4	Most people in comitted relationships retain backup options. So much that I think it’s completely normal and reasonable that they do. That's literally what I said. I said the research supports both. My disagreement was with treating back burners as something that only exists when someone consciously decides to keep a Plan B. Hyper-connectivity creates accessible alternatives whether people deliberately planned for them or not. You're arguing with a point I never made.	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/07/26 05:38 AM
6	CMV: On the topics of "red pill women should avoid dating red pill men" vs "red pill men should avoid dating red pill women," the latter is more true, even though people are more likely to say the former I think there's an important distinction between female MRAs and self-described RP women. A female MRA can agree that men get a bad deal in a lot of areas without needing to adopt Red Pill as an overall worldview. A lot of women who call themselves RP, though, seem to adopt just enough of it to stand out while keeping most of the same blue pill beliefs that benefit them. You'll hear them agree with things like hypergamy, that men have to initiate, or that modern dating is harder for men. Those a…	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/07/26 05:35 AM
4	Most people in comitted relationships retain backup options. So much that I think it’s completely normal and reasonable that they do. I think you're overstating how deliberate this has to be. Research on "back burners" does support the idea that many people keep former romantic or sexual interests within reach through texting or social media. Those are typically exes, former flings, or people where attraction already existed, not people they simply rejected. Where I'd disagree is assuming this only counts if someone is consciously keeping a backup. People stay connected for all kinds of reasons, but those connections still bec…	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/07/26 04:30 AM
3	Continuing a “Friendship” with a woman is not a good idea. There's no way to know for sure unless he actually gets an opportunity. Even if you created one as a test, if he doesn't take a genuine opportunity, then it's reasonable to think he's probably moved on.	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/07/26 04:23 AM
1	Why is relationship a womans job? I don't think we're actually that far apart. When I said "better," I wasn't necessarily talking about being a better person. I meant better in the traits that drive attraction. If a woman says she wants a man she respects and who has qualities superior to other men she's met, that can still mean she wants someone she perceives as above average in the qualities she cares about. Where I think we differ is that I believe many women don't consciously frame that as wanting someone "better than me." T…	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/07/26 12:38 AM
–	Men choose the wrong women for ltr or marriage No. My point depends on those two things not being equal. A long term relationship with a looksmatch tells you someone is willing to choose you for commitment. Casual attention from a higher-level man only tells you someone is willing to sleep with you. Those communicate completely different things. The problem is that repeated casual attention can blur the line between temporary desire and genuine relationship interest. Once that line starts to blur, it's much easier to become confused about wh…	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/07/26 12:30 AM
–	Women like dominant and aggressive men, even if they date nice guys My eyes are open enough to know that one study doesn't prove the sweeping claim you're making. The study you're referring to doesn't show that "women have a natural predisposition for liking cruelty and violence." It examined neural responses to seeing unfair people receive punishment. That's a huge leap from enjoying justice or punishment to being sexually attracted to violence itself. The claim that women get sexually aroused watching men beat each other up also isn't established by that study…	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/07/26 12:24 AM
1	Believing a 50/50 man will step up later isn’t just naive - it’s risky I think this is the real concern many women are trying to get across. A 50/50 arrangement can be completely fair when both people are working full time and contributing under similar circumstances. Pregnancy changes those circumstances. One partner temporarily gives up earning capacity while taking on pregnancy, recovery, and a much larger share of childcare. Keeping the same financial arrangement after that isn't fairness anymore. It shifts more of the financial cost of having children onto the…	/r/PurplePillDebate	27/07/26 07:27 AM
5	Why is relationship a womans job? Better than them as well, of course they just would never admit that.	/r/PurplePillDebate	27/07/26 06:29 AM
3	Why is relationship a womans job? That is a distorted version of the advice. The point is not that a man should never care about his wife’s happiness or do anything for her. The point is that he should not build his entire life around managing her emotions, seeking her approval, or abandoning his own standards just to keep her pleased. A man can lead, provide, plan dates, show affection, help his wife, and care about what she wants without becoming passive or making her happiness his only purpose. Doing something thoughtful for …	/r/PurplePillDebate	27/07/26 06:25 AM
–	Women like dominant and aggressive men, even if they date nice guys First off I’m not your son, boy. Second, I disagree that women simply adore bullies because they humiliate other men. What they are usually responding to is confidence, assertiveness, dominance, and the ability to command respect. A bully may display those traits, but that does not mean the cruelty itself is what creates the attraction.	/r/PurplePillDebate	27/07/26 06:20 AM
6	Most men give their attention so freely to women that it doesn't mean anything to them anymore. That is the bigger issue. Unless a man is already top tier, he is still usually expected to pursue, create the opportunity, prove his value, and compete with other men for her attention. So even a woman who is boring, entitled, or has very little going on can still benefit from dating because men are doing most of the work. Women have little reason to give up that advantage. They can remain passive while men approach, plan, pay, entertain, and try to stand out. In a competitive dating market, so…	/r/PurplePillDebate	26/07/26 08:26 PM
6	Men following other men's advices because you "don't ask a fish how to fish" is pretty stupide Someone wanting money does not automatically make their advice wrong. A male dating coach can still understand what works with women better than women are able or willing to explain, even if he also sells a course or asks for donations. The real question is whether the advice works, not whether the person benefits financially from giving it. Plenty of useful information is available for free anyway. I have taken good advice without donating anything, so the fact that someone asked for money did …	/r/PurplePillDebate	26/07/26 07:53 PM
3	male or neutral-targeted media criticized harder than female-targeted media I literally brought up female slash fanfiction as one of my examples. My point was not that it does not exist. My point was that women can sexualize male characters and rewrite their sexualities without receiving the same level of moral scrutiny that male fans often receive for equivalent content.	/r/PurplePillDebate	26/07/26 07:45 PM
2	Men choose the wrong women for ltr or marriage I can believe that women want to feel uniquely valued, but that does not mean they always judge their looksmatch accurately. Attention from men above their level, especially for casual sex, can still blur the line between who desires them temporarily and who would seriously choose them. Her own-level men may also be less willing to provide constant exceptional treatment because they expect a more balanced exchange. A higher-level man can create that feeling briefly without intending commitment, …	/r/PurplePillDebate	26/07/26 07:20 PM
2	The cost of living crisis is in a large part contributed to by the ability of women to pursue careers. Women entering the workforce clearly gave them more freedom. They could support themselves, leave bad relationships, delay marriage, and build lives that were not completely dependent on a husband. That part is real. The tradeoff is that society gradually reorganized around two incomes. Housing, transportation, childcare, and everyday living costs began reflecting what dual-income households could afford. What started as freedom from financial dependence eventually became a system where many peo…	/r/PurplePillDebate	26/07/26 06:16 AM
1	Genuine question for feminists Healthcare and education are essential, but that does not automatically prove women are doing equally demanding work for less money than men. You would have to compare specific jobs rather than placing teaching, nursing, construction, and every other occupation into two broad gender categories. Nursing is not even a particularly strong example of low-paid female work. Registered nurses generally earn more than many construction workers, while lower-paid healthcare roles such as aides require ver…	/r/PurplePillDebate	26/07/26 06:06 AM
3	Men choose the wrong women for ltr or marriage The issue is that many women may see themselves as higher than they actually are because they can get attention from more attractive men, especially for casual sex. That makes it much easier for their self-assessment to be off. Men above their actual dating range may still show interest, which can make their real looksmatch seem below them. So the pool is not necessarily small; their perception of where they rank can easily be distorted.	/r/PurplePillDebate	26/07/26 05:57 AM
5	male or neutral-targeted media criticized harder than female-targeted media A big part of it is probably that male and female sexual media are judged through different moral lenses. Male-targeted content is often interpreted as reflecting how men view real women. So fanservice, sexualized female characters, or violent fantasies are treated as evidence of objectification, misogyny, or harmful attitudes. The audience is judged along with the material. Female-targeted content is more often treated as private fantasy, emotional exploration, or harmless escapism. Even when t…	/r/PurplePillDebate	26/07/26 03:18 AM
9	Women like dominant and aggressive men, even if they date nice guys Yeah, most people simply do not know how to give useful advice to a man who missed those early experiences. That guidance was traditionally supposed to come from fathers or older men who understood how attraction actually works, but a lot of boys grow up without that. Instead, they learn from mothers, teachers, and especially female teachers, who may mean well but usually are not the best people to teach boys how to navigate the dating game from a male perspective. Media often makes it worse by …	/r/PurplePillDebate	26/07/26 03:01 AM
6	Why do so many women end up choosing the guy who was simply more present? Consistency and presence definitely matter because attraction can grow when someone becomes a regular part of a woman’s life. Being around gives him more chances to build comfort, trust, familiarity, and emotional momentum than someone who only appears occasionally. That does not necessarily mean he won simply because he was there, though. There may have been other things he was doing better that were less obvious from the outside. He could have been more assertive, made his intentions clearer, …	/r/PurplePillDebate	26/07/26 02:12 AM
8	Women like dominant and aggressive men, even if they date nice guys Yeah, and it is not even just mainstream society repeating it, even though that alone would be enough to influence most people. Men also hear the same advice from their parents, friends, and other people around them who already accept it as true. Then the women they are interested in or trying to date often repeat it too. When nearly everyone in a man’s life is giving him the same message, it makes complete sense that he would trust it instead of assuming they are all wrong and relying entirely …	/r/PurplePillDebate	26/07/26 02:04 AM
5	A man who can effortlessly get sex is exalted. A man who desires to have sex but is unsuccessful is seen as "entitled " That still misses the distinction I’m making. His own attractiveness has not changed, but the realism of what he wants absolutely depends on who he is pursuing. An unattractive man expecting casual sex from highly attractive women is aiming above his level. An unattractive man looking for the same thing with women closer to his own level is not making the same demand. Saying “it only matters who he is” also proves part of the problem. His desire is being judged as unacceptable before anyone even…	/r/PurplePillDebate	26/07/26 01:58 AM
–	It is not true that consenting homemakers are considered "valid" by feminism. That is the real contradiction. People will call staying home a valid choice when speaking abstractly, but they rarely treat access to that choice as an actual advantage. Women are still far more likely to have the option of being supported by a partner, stepping away from paid work, living rent-free, or contributing mainly through the home. Men are generally expected to remain economically productive no matter what, and almost nobody treats that lack of choice as a gender disadvantage. The mome…	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/07/26 10:41 PM
5	Women should make the first move, its better for everyone. That still does not really refute the point. Saying women stop because “the juice isn’t worth the squeeze” only makes sense because they can stop initiating without giving up dating altogether. Men will usually continue creating opportunities for them. The hormone explanation is also mostly speculation. Men keep trying because refusing to approach often means having no dating life at all, not simply because testosterone eventually erases every bad experience. Women can decide the effort is not w…	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/07/26 08:50 PM
12	A man who can effortlessly get sex is exalted. A man who desires to have sex but is unsuccessful is seen as "entitled " That’s fine, but an unattractive man can understand that he will not get the same results as a successful, attractive man and simply look for sex with women around his own level. Even then, he can still be made out to be the villain for wanting the exact same casual arrangement women would not question a highly attractive man for wanting. So unless a man ranks fairly high in looks or status, many women seem to view his sexual intentions negatively no matter how realistic his expectations are.	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/07/26 07:34 PM
7	A man who can effortlessly get sex is exalted. A man who desires to have sex but is unsuccessful is seen as "entitled " Yeah, that claim is definitely untrue. A bad personality can hurt a man, but being a decent person does not automatically create attraction. Of course RP did a better job of explaining that then anything else.	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/07/26 07:29 PM
29	Red pill failed men Just because feminists insist Red Pill failed men because they hate the framework does not make that true. Red Pill is still one of the main places telling men to improve their looks, confidence, discipline, income, social skills, boundaries, and understanding of attraction. Pointing out what women do is not automatically avoiding responsibility either. Men need accurate information about the environment they are expected to succeed in. Personal responsibility does not mean pretending female beh…	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/07/26 07:24 PM
1	Alot of guys dont have friends and that really hurts their dating life. Because the general consensus is that they’re a joke and a scam. You guys keep forgetting that 50% of the population is male. That does not address my point. Whether people think inexperienced men are a joke, or whether men make up half the population, has nothing to do with whether dating involves skills that friendship does not fully teach. Men are not one unified group either. Plenty of men ridicule inexperienced men, repeat the same mainstream assumptions, or offer them no more understanding…	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/07/26 07:20 PM
–	The Red Pill is great strategy just to for dating. Men usually have to earn their way into favorable dating situations through confidence, status, social skill, financial stability, or years of self-improvement. If a man builds enough value to negotiate a relationship structure that benefits him, there is nothing inherently wrong with that as long as the woman understands the arrangement and freely agrees to it. Having more options or bargaining power is not automatically coercion. Women use their own leverage in dating through beauty, youth, at…	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/07/26 08:24 AM
–	Women Can't Be "Used" For Sex If They Consented. That's Feminist Victim Mentality Rhetoric. Yeah, some women call it being “used” simply because sex was the only thing the man ultimately wanted, even when both people willingly participated and enjoyed it at the time. Not getting the relationship you hoped for afterward does not automatically turn consensual sex into exploitation. If commitment was required for you to feel comfortable having sex, that needed to be established before continuing the situation. The man can still be dishonest if he deliberately promised or implied a future …	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/07/26 08:12 AM
4	Most men aren’t “nice guys” Yes, let’s all take a moment to thank Red Pill for being one of the main reasons many men now understand that being kind does not automatically make a man attractive. It helped separate genuine kindness from passivity, approval-seeking, and acting nice because you expect a relationship in return. That still does not mean every self-described nice guy is secretly entitled or pretending to be decent. Some men are genuinely kind but struggle because they lack confidence, assertiveness, social exper…	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/07/26 07:32 AM
9	Women like dominant and aggressive men, even if they date nice guys It may seem obvious once you already understand the pattern, but mainstream society often pushes back against saying it plainly. Women also tend to downplay how important traits like strength, stoicism, and resilience are in attraction. That matters when boys are taught from a young age that being nice, emotionally available, and respectful should be enough on their own. Not every man is going to ignore what parents, schools, media, and women directly tell him and rely only on observation. If th…	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/07/26 07:18 AM
7	Women like dominant and aggressive men, even if they date nice guys The point is not that Red Pill invented the idea that women value protection and provision. It is that Red Pill broke down how important those traits are, how they show up in attraction, and what happens when men ignore them, while mainstream advice often softened or avoided that discussion. That deserves credit even if some parts of Red Pill rhetoric go too far. A framework does not become worthless because certain people attach bad advice to it. You can reject negging, dread, or anything you b…	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/07/26 06:57 AM
3	Women should make the first move, its better for everyone. At some point, dating complaints have to be weighed against how much responsibility a person is willing to take for changing their situation. Women can often remain passive because men are still expected to approach, create the opportunity, and absorb the rejection. That makes it much easier to declare dating hopeless after only a few bad experiences. Serious issues involving abuse, coercion, or illegal behavior are obviously different and should always be taken seriously. Regular complaints abo…	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/07/26 06:45 AM
7	Women like dominant and aggressive men, even if they date nice guys That’s a strawman. I said assertiveness is a major driver of attraction, not that it magically overrides looks, status, charisma, or social skills. Elvis had all of those traits along with assertiveness. The calculator-watch nerd example only works if you pretend I claimed assertiveness was the only thing that mattered.	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/07/26 06:38 AM
16	Women like dominant and aggressive men, even if they date nice guys Nah, I’d disagree. Red Pill is one of the few spaces that consistently gives men this kind of information, which is exactly why it gets hated so much. A lot of it is nuanced and rational. It just isn’t always pleasant or flattering from a feminist perspective, so people act like anything sensible must somehow be separate from Red Pill.	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/07/26 06:31 AM
7	Women should make the first move, its better for everyone. Approaching is always going to produce some bad results. A few men assuming you wanted sex does not prove women approaching men does not work. It only proves those particular approaches did not lead to what you wanted. Trying it a handful of times is not enough of a sample size to make a broad conclusion. Women can usually stop after a few disappointing experiences because they can still wait for men to approach them. Men do not have that option. A man may get rejected more times in one week tha…	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/07/26 06:26 AM
3	Women should make the first move, its better for everyone. If nothing else, both men and women should be participating in creating dating opportunities instead of leaving nearly all of that responsibility to men. Women do not need to approach every man they like, and men do not need to stop approaching. The issue is that initiating is still treated almost entirely as a male obligation, while women are expected to wait and choose from whoever comes to them. Women approaching more would give them greater control over the men they meet instead of depending…	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/07/26 09:20 PM
5	Women should make the first move, its better for everyone. College may be one of the worst places to judge this because the social circles are tightly connected. If an approach goes badly, gossip can spread quickly, people know each other, and both sides may act differently because their reputation is involved. That does not prove men generally look down on women who approach. It may only show that a few men handled a woman’s interest badly in an environment where every interaction can carry more social pressure than it normally would. Approaching alway…	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/07/26 09:12 PM
1	Alot of guys dont have friends and that really hurts their dating life. I have literally shown you guys men getting rejected based on their behavior and profile, but you’ll still make it about looks. Still mostly about looks, though. And most guys think theyre a joke and a scam. Yeah, it's much safer to do that in modern society if men don't want any backlash, which a lot of people can't handle or choose not to.	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/07/26 08:59 PM
3	Women should make the first move, its better for everyone. Yeah, especially if they do it somewhere public around others. I can see how that could go left if he is a stalker, but anyone like that would be a danger regardless of who approached first. So, if not that option, even them being willing to do that on things like apps would be more than welcomed. Of course, most women would have to be more open in their selection for it to be of any real benefit.	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/07/26 08:47 PM
2	We pathologize male passivity in dating but reward female passivity and nobody can explain why without circular logic Nah, the choice is hers to make at the end of the day. All I'm saying is, if she is trying to keep him involved when he wanted no part in the first place.	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/07/26 08:42 PM
3	What does the future of dating look like in a job market that favors women yet many of whom still won’t “date down”? The end game is probably not some coordinated plan to keep women single. It is that education, hiring, and dating preferences have changed at different speeds, and the mismatch is starting to show. Women have moved into more professional and white-collar roles, but many still prefer men who earn more, hold more status, or seem more established. That preference becomes harder to satisfy when women are increasingly competing with men for the same limited group of prestigious jobs. Every woman cann…	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/07/26 08:32 PM
43	Women like dominant and aggressive men, even if they date nice guys The real divide is not between nice men and bad men. It is between assertive men and passive men. Assertiveness is usually the main trait driving attraction. Kindness, loyalty, and respect can still be highly attractive when they come with decisiveness, sexual confidence, leadership, and strong boundaries. The stereotypical nice guy is often unattractive because his niceness comes with hesitation, approval-seeking, conflict avoidance, and fear of expressing what he wants. So-called bad boys are …	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/07/26 08:21 PM
2	We pathologize male passivity in dating but reward female passivity and nobody can explain why without circular logic They can be drawn enough to them, especially if it's just for casual purposes.	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/07/26 08:10 PM
4	Alot of guys dont have friends and that really hurts their dating life. That's assuming the problem is social skills without showing that it is. Plenty of men can hold conversations, listen well, and enjoy other people's company yet still struggle with attraction. Red pill isn't notorious for that, either, since that's where many men go specifically because they don't want to remain stuck like so many do with blue pill advice.	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/07/26 08:08 PM
3	We pathologize male passivity in dating but reward female passivity and nobody can explain why without circular logic Well, it all depends on if he was wanting the kid or not. If the woman made that decision for him, then it's not so bad. Otherwise, if he promised to be there, then he is for sure ducking his responsibilities, which isn't very easy to do long-term without facing jail time.	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/07/26 08:05 PM
3	We pathologize male passivity in dating but reward female passivity and nobody can explain why without circular logic I said that because women complain about dating in every way possible, including in the exact same ways men do. Women complain without taking action, complain without offering solutions, complain about not getting dates, complain about the quality of their options, and complain that dating is unfair. The behavior itself is not unique to men. Yes, anyone who complains endlessly without doing anything can become annoying. My point is that women do the same thing and are not always given the same r…	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/07/26 08:01 PM
2	We pathologize male passivity in dating but reward female passivity and nobody can explain why without circular logic Well, men have more of a drive to make something happen than women do, so it can make more sense from our end for sure.	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/07/26 07:58 PM
1	We pathologize male passivity in dating but reward female passivity and nobody can explain why without circular logic Yeah, most men can't afford to really do that and have any real options. So it's best for men to just play the numbers and not say anything about it to a woman, tbh, since most women will not understand that because they typically can't relate to it whatsoever. So anyway, the numbers game is the only real way, especially nowadays.	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/07/26 08:31 AM
3	do you truly believe the bar is lower for men? Yeah, I was mostly talking about women who look noticeably unkempt in the ways she described, such as not shaving, doing their nails, managing facial hair, or wearing makeup. Even then, they will usually still be able to find dates. The main effect is that it may lower the range of men they can realistically attract, especially if they still expect men who are highly polished or conventionally attractive. Men often will not criticize those details out loud, but their preferences can still show t…	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/07/26 08:05 AM
6	Enshittification of sugar dating is a sign things are bad Sugar dating is not normal dating, but it can still reveal how expectations are shifting in the wider dating market. The arrangement traditionally existed because the man’s money compensated for disadvantages in areas like age, appearance, or ordinary dating appeal. The woman received financial support, while the man gained access to someone who probably would not have chosen him under normal dating conditions. The tradeoff was obvious. Once women enter those spaces demanding substantial money w…	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/07/26 03:05 AM
4	do you truly believe the bar is lower for men? Men do not necessarily have more leeway overall. A man who cannot properly take care of himself, stay reasonably groomed, maintain his home, and function independently can struggle to date at all. Women may face more detailed beauty expectations, but men are often judged on whether they are competent, stable, useful, and capable of handling life without needing someone else to manage it for them. The parenting standard is also different, not simply easier for men. Fathers are often expected to p…	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/07/26 02:44 AM
5	We pathologize male passivity in dating but reward female passivity and nobody can explain why without circular logic A man usually cannot just give a fake name and disappear as easily as that makes it sound. Most people meet through dating apps, social media, work, school, mutual friends, phone numbers, payment records, or places with cameras. There is often a digital trail connecting him to the woman even if he lies about some details. If a pregnancy occurs, paternity can also be established through DNA testing. Avoiding responsibility would require him to hide his identity, location, employment, and finances…	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/07/26 02:33 AM
4	Why doesn't the red pill push for expanded views of attractiveness? Even those dont if they date within their range.	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/07/26 01:46 AM
11	We pathologize male passivity in dating but reward female passivity and nobody can explain why without circular logic Women taking more initiative would also make attraction less dependent on which men are bold enough to risk rejection repeatedly. It would give quieter men a clearer signal that their interest is welcome instead of forcing them to guess. It could also reduce the resentment that builds when one side is expected to create every opportunity while the other only evaluates the options presented to them. Dating works better when both people take some responsibility for making the connection happen.	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/07/26 01:42 AM
8	We pathologize male passivity in dating but reward female passivity and nobody can explain why without circular logic Women already complain about dating all the time, though, and they are not always met with “put yourself out there” or “stop complaining.” A lot of the time, their frustration is validated, blamed on men, or treated as evidence that dating itself is broken. Men are more likely to be told that if they are unhappy, they need to improve, approach more, become more confident, or create better options for themselves. So it is not just that men care more. The two complaints are often received differen…	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/07/26 01:23 AM
5	Women should not have friends (man, woman, child, or animal). This is less about preserving hierarchy and more about isolating women from every relationship that might give them support, perspective, or independence. A husband can be her friend without losing authority, a mother can be close to her children without becoming permissive, and female friendships are not automatically fake. At that point, she is not being placed in a healthy role. She is just being told to serve everyone while having no real companionship of her own.	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/07/26 01:10 AM
1	Why doesn't the red pill push for expanded views of attractiveness? I wouldn’t even say men dismiss those kinds of women, because men start families with older, disabled, and overweight women all the time. The real issue is that those women may have a harder time dating above their league, which a lot of women try to do. In some cases, they aim far above it, so when those men are not interested, it can feel like men are dismissing them altogether. In reality, they are not being rejected by men as a whole. They simply cannot get every man they want, especially wh…	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/07/26 12:13 AM
1	do you truly believe the bar is lower for men? The problem is that “the bar is low for men” is usually treated like a conclusion instead of something that has to be demonstrated. A man receiving praise for basic parenting or decency does not prove men are uniquely rewarded for doing less. Women receive the same kind of inflated praise for basic independence, competence, and adulthood. A lot of these comparisons also ignore trade-offs. Men may be praised more for being involved fathers because fathers are still often expected to be providers …	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/07/26 11:35 PM
14	We pathologize male passivity in dating but reward female passivity and nobody can explain why without circular logic It stays this way because dating norms are shaped more by results than by fairness. A woman can often remain passive and still receive attention, messages, invitations, and options. A man who remains passive is far more likely to receive nothing, so people treat his passivity as a problem because it usually leads to failure. Women are rewarded for waiting because men continue approaching them. Men are punished for waiting because women usually do not step in and create those opportunities for th…	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/07/26 10:52 PM
3	Having casual sex will help men have better relationships It sounds like casual sex did do you favors, though. You said it gave you experience, good sex, good memories, and helped shape your standards. The fact that it also made attachment harder does not erase those benefits. That just means it had a downside for you too. It is more accurate to say it helped in some ways and hurt in others, not that it did nothing for you.	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/07/26 10:30 PM
3	Many women have been socially programmed to be self-centered and narcissistic. That isn’t what I was arguing. I never said stay-at-home parents contribute nothing or that all the money belongs only to the person earning the paycheck. In that kind of marriage, the income can reasonably be treated as shared. My point was that those studies don’t tell us whether the donated money came from wages, shared household funds, gifts, inheritance, settlements, investments, or support from other people. They also don’t measure how much giving it actually cost the person. Saying men re…	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/07/26 09:36 PM
2	Having casual sex will help men have better relationships That would only be deception if he pretended to want a genuine relationship so he could get casual sex. If both people understand that it is casual, he treats her well, and he makes no false promises, then he is not using her just because she is not his ideal woman. People generally do not list everything they find lacking in someone, especially early on. They accept that the other person has faults and decide whether the experience is still worth having. Men often do this because casual opportu…	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/07/26 09:02 PM
1	Having casual sex will help men have better relationships Not used, though. She is agreeing to it and gets to enjoy the experience as well, unlike when men give up their money, where only the woman gets to enjoy that. Like I was saying, he isn't as into her, but as far as she is concerned, he very much is if he is treating her well.	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/07/26 08:39 PM
3	Alot of guys dont have friends and that really hurts their dating life. Yeah, if they aren't the right type of friends, such as popular ones, then yeah, it won't be that effective, especially if there aren't any women within the group that he is attracted to and who are attracted back to him.	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/07/26 08:26 PM
5	Alot of guys dont have friends and that really hurts their dating life. Dating is not just hanging out with someone. Friendship can teach you how to talk, listen, and enjoy another person’s company, but dating adds attraction, flirting, reading interest, making a move, handling rejection, setting boundaries, and knowing whether the other person actually sees you romantically. Those are skills people usually get better at through experience. Knowing that personality matters is not the same as knowing how to build romantic interest. Someone can be a good friend and st…	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/07/26 08:16 PM
0	Having casual sex will help men have better relationships I mean, that's still better than women who believe the man isn't all that attractive but will tolerate him because he is willing to spend on her. So there's no reason to try to call out men when women do the same with way less effort on their end.	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/07/26 08:08 PM
2	Many women have been socially programmed to be self-centered and narcissistic. That does show single women are more likely to donate and often give more than single men at similar income levels. What it does not show is that the money was personally earned through work. Income can also come from investments, pensions, alimony, settlements, or inherited assets. So the fair conclusion is that single women donate more at comparable income levels, so like I said this does not prove that women necessarily give away more of their own earned wages.	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/07/26 08:04 PM
2	Many women have been socially programmed to be self-centered and narcissistic. Yeah, none of these conclude that they donated their hard-earned money to charities in everyday life. That is what should really matter. With any other money, it's way more understandable that they can be more giving with it.	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/07/26 07:54 PM
4	Having casual sex will help men have better relationships Neither sex usually tells someone they are less attracted to them than the last person they dealt with, so expecting men to announce that they lowered their standards is unrealistic. Women also get plenty of chances to deal with different men without being told exactly where they rank compared to everyone before them. Even with an unattractive woman, the man still has to approach, create the opportunity, and put in effort to make anything happen. At the very least, she is still being desired eno…	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/07/26 07:43 PM
1	Many women have been socially programmed to be self-centered and narcissistic. That study found women gave more in controlled dictator-game experiments, especially when the recipient was a charity. That is evidence of a difference under those specific conditions, but it does not prove women are generally more likely to donate in everyday life.	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/07/26 07:36 PM
2	Having casual sex will help men have better relationships Yeah, many men already do this. They may lower their standards for casual sex while keeping higher standards for a relationship. That gives them more opportunities instead of limiting themselves to top-tier women who have far more options and are harder to get. A man does not have to see every woman he sleeps with as someone he would seriously date. It is a practical move as long as he is still attracted to the woman and honest about what he wants. Only pursuing the most attractive women would l…	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/07/26 07:28 PM
3	Having casual sex will help men have better relationships Well, some men have to lower their standards, even if it's for the time being, so that they have something. It can still be an experience that she can enjoy as well. It's not like only men feel pleasure during sex. Also, I do believe if he really finds her unattractive at all, then yes, it's probably best not to go through with it. Some men definitely will push forward with opportunities they aren't really attracted to, though, which some men definitely find reasonable.	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/07/26 07:16 PM
10	Feminists In Practice Believe in the Absolute, near Invariant Moral Perfection of Women. It is a Highly Dangerous View: A big reason for this is that women are usually judged more by their feelings, while men are judged more by their actions. When a woman does something wrong, people often ask what happened to her, what pushed her there, or what kind of pain she was dealing with. When a man does something wrong, people are more likely to focus on the choice he made and hold him fully responsible for it. That difference starts early. Girls are often seen as more vulnerable and in need of protection, while boys are…	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/07/26 06:38 AM
3	AF/BB doesn't exist and is out dated If it’s a new woman, that’s basically playing with fire, literally.	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/07/26 06:20 AM
5	How do you define a female friend? I think calling it a red flag is too broad. A man can respect women, get along with them at work or in group settings, and still not have close one-on-one female friendships. Adult friendships usually come down to proximity, shared interests, time, and opportunity, not some hidden hatred of women. A female friend should mean someone he has an actual friendship with, not just a coworker he talks to. But not having that kind of friendship proves very little. His behavior toward women matters more …	/r/PurplePillDebate	22/07/26 11:29 PM
3	What explains the difference in how some men respond to authority, admiration, and emotion when it comes from women versus other men. I would say men generally are, since they have to be. Society will not give men the same leeway they do women. Women can be more emotional, for instance. This is why some women who hit men know they can likely get away with it, since men aren't supposed to hit them back. Most men know they can't carry that attitude and get away with it, as they are likely to get hit back. So, even if you weren't saying that in general, that actually is the case.	/r/PurplePillDebate	22/07/26 10:41 PM
8	Men place women on a pedestal and in doing so they start to hate women for any show of humanity. You’re starting with the conclusion that men see women as prizes, then interpreting every complaint through that lens. Men being frustrated that some women repeatedly choose obvious red flags does not mean they expect mind reading or believe women are “damaged goods.” The criticism is usually that certain warning signs were visible, ignored, or even treated as attractive until the consequences appeared. Women can misjudge people, but that does not make every bad outcome completely unpredictable.…	/r/PurplePillDebate	22/07/26 10:31 PM
6	AF/BB doesn't exist and is out dated Nah, it’s still a thing. A man who can consistently get casual sex can usually get a relationship too, so it’s not necessarily that women see him as unfit for anything serious. He may simply choose not to pursue those women long term, especially if he enjoys the benefits of casual dating without wanting the added commitment. The argument also assumes casual sex means a man failed some higher relationship standard, but that only makes sense if he was actually seeking a relationship and being reje…	/r/PurplePillDebate	22/07/26 06:01 PM
4	What explains the difference in how some men respond to authority, admiration, and emotion when it comes from women versus other men. I think you're grouping together a lot of different behaviors that don't necessarily have the same explanation. The teacher example could just as easily be about physical authority or fear of consequences rather than respect for men. A student might ignore one teacher but comply with another because they perceive one as stricter, regardless of sex. The celebrity examples aren't really equivalent either. Men who cry over athletes get mocked all the time for being obsessed, just like women who are…	/r/PurplePillDebate	22/07/26 05:50 PM
5	Asking Someone Out Doesn't Feel Right. It Simply Should Not Be Treated As The Universal Standard Or The Ultimate Measure Of Confidence And Romance. Well, I'd say someone has to if anything is to happen, but it does suck that men are always having to be the ones to do so. I believe that is the stronger point, if anything.	/r/PurplePillDebate	22/07/26 05:23 PM
2	Dating experiments prove men are picky and not as desperate like they claim to be. That just means they're making an already difficult situation even narrower.	/r/PurplePillDebate	22/07/26 05:16 PM
2	Dating experiments prove men are picky and not as desperate like they claim to be. Not willing to take just anything is not picky.	/r/PurplePillDebate	22/07/26 05:11 PM
2	Dating experiments prove men are picky and not as desperate like they claim to be. The struggle is a choice. Only if the struggle is entirely self-created. Having standards doesn't eliminate the reality that some people have far fewer opportunities than others. Choosing not to pursue people you're incompatible with doesn't suddenly make the underlying difficulty disappear. As I have shown in my post. I don't think your examples show that. They show that some men still have standards and don't pursue every possible match. That isn't the same as demonstrating their dating diffic…	/r/PurplePillDebate	22/07/26 04:50 PM
2	Dating experiments prove men are picky and not as desperate like they claim to be. Yes, because of his pickiness and his absurd standards. Having standards doesn't mean someone isn't struggling. A man can reject women he isn't attracted to and still have far fewer realistic options than the average woman. Dating difficulty isn't measured by whether someone is willing to accept literally anybody. You choosing the difficulty makes your complaining irrelevant. Only if the difficulty is entirely self-created. Saying someone could improve their results by changing their personality…	/r/PurplePillDebate	22/07/26 04:38 PM
8	Dating experiments prove men are picky and not as desperate like they claim to be. This argument keeps confusing “having standards” with “not struggling.” A man can reject women he isn’t attracted to and still have far fewer realistic options than the average woman. Dating difficulty isn’t measured by whether someone is willing to accept literally anybody. The guy swiping on two million women and getting one date doesn’t prove dating is easy for men. It proves he had to make an absurd number of attempts to get one result. Saying he could improve himself doesn’t erase that imba…	/r/PurplePillDebate	22/07/26 07:17 AM
–	Men have to build their assets, but women are born with them. Not at all. Of course, most people aren't saying it's on the same level as an attractive woman, as that would be pretty silly to do, especially if the woman happens to be model-tier. Even still, it will be really good, especially nowadays. Let's not even get started on them being online. On there, they don't even really need to be average.	/r/PurplePillDebate	22/07/26 07:07 AM
6	Q4Men: Would you truly spend a year or more with a woman with zero intention of being serious/ married? And let her think otherwise? Some men absolutely can operate this way. If they're getting the benefits of a relationship without intending long-term commitment, some will keep things exactly as they are because it's the closest they'll realistically get to having consistent sex or a friends-with-benefits arrangement. That's even more likely if the woman isn't pushing to make the relationship more serious. If the current arrangement is working for him, many men aren't going to be the ones to force that conversation. That sti…	/r/PurplePillDebate	22/07/26 06:09 AM
–	Assuming women are unattracted to most men, can we really be blamed for lack of attraction? I don't think people are dismissing chemistry. The disagreement is over whether it's completely unexplainable or whether there are patterns behind it. Just because something is subjective doesn't mean we can't study it or notice recurring dynamics. I'd also say "chemistry" often describes the outcome more than it explains the cause. Saying two people had chemistry tells us what happened, but not why it happened. That's why people try to identify the traits, behaviors, and interactions that consi…	/r/PurplePillDebate	22/07/26 05:55 AM
5	Men on the whole are objectively worth less to date now than ever I believe This isn't really a male problem. Plenty of women struggle with basic adult competence too. The difference is that it often shows up in different areas or is overlooked because people are quicker to step in and help them. There are a lot of reasons this can happen today: more overprotective parenting, less independence growing up, technology solving problems for people, fewer expectations to figure things out on their own, and people becoming more comfortable relying on others instead of trouble…	/r/PurplePillDebate	21/07/26 09:10 PM
2	A man without female friends is a red flag Yeah, even if you don't act on it, the attraction can still be there. If a man finds his female friend attractive, he'll simply have to be much more disciplined, especially if he's already in a relationship. That's exactly why I think having close female friends you're attracted to is generally a bad idea. It creates unnecessary temptation and makes things more complicated than they need to be.	/r/PurplePillDebate	21/07/26 09:04 PM
–	Red pill should go to therapy to learn how to listen. The problem is that you're treating what women say they value as if it must perfectly predict the people they actually choose. Those are two different questions. If someone's stated preferences and revealed preferences don't always align, pointing that out isn't automatically claiming they're lying or that they don't understand themselves. Red Pill's core argument isn't that women are incapable of describing what they like. It's that attraction is more complicated than conscious self-reporting. …	/r/PurplePillDebate	21/07/26 08:51 AM
2	Why don't men speak up more about male rights? Not necessarily. Research does show that women tend to have a stronger automatic preference for women than men have for men, and people often evaluate women more positively overall. There is also evidence that men sometimes favor women rather than their own sex. Still, that does not mean men never support male causes or that most people believe women should rule over men. Men can mobilize when they view an issue as unjust, believe collective action can work, and see themselves as responsible for…	/r/PurplePillDebate	21/07/26 07:38 AM
5	It isn't worth it to have casual sex with men Well, they would if they are also looking for casual, but long-term, most men would prefer not to. If they don't have many options, though, some guys take it anyway, unfortunately.	/r/PurplePillDebate	21/07/26 06:46 AM
2	A man without female friends is a red flag Yeah, and it's best to make sure you aren't attracted to them at all. I feel like that can become a problem, and it wouldn't be a real friendship if y'all are sleeping with each other. Either that, or the man is suffering in the friend zone, and if he wants to honor it, then it will feel like it, even if he didn't push it forward, since he would like more, but she just won't allow it or allow he wont allow himself to push it to that.	/r/PurplePillDebate	21/07/26 06:20 AM
2	On Double Standards and the Problem of Male Sluts at the Gym If that is true, then you basically answered your own question.	/r/PurplePillDebate	21/07/26 06:03 AM
5	There are similar patterns in men anticipating sex, and women anticipating commitment Yeah, which is silly. In a lot of cases, the man had to do far more work just to get the opportunity in the first place. He had to approach, face rejection, build attraction, invest time, plan dates, and keep putting in effort, only to eventually find out it wasn't leading anywhere. Then, after all of that, he's told he was wrong for feeling disappointed that none of his effort resulted in the kind of relationship he was hoping for. When a woman later realizes a relationship isn't leading to mar…	/r/PurplePillDebate	21/07/26 04:38 AM
4	Verifying and boosting your dating profile would actually help. Nah, most people who get on dating apps already understand that they may need to pay for certain features if they want the best chance of having a decent experience. Boosts, premium filters, and better visibility are not some hidden secret, so acting like men are unknowingly sabotaging themselves by refusing to pay does not really answer the complaint. Paying can improve exposure, but it does not create attraction. If a man pays to have his profile shown to more women and still gets little inter…	/r/PurplePillDebate	21/07/26 01:27 AM
7	Why don't men speak up more about male rights? Men definitely do try, but society pushes back much harder when men organize around their own issues than when other groups do. That makes it a lot more discouraging over time. If men advocate for issues like the draft, family court, circumcision, or false accusations, they're often labeled misogynists, insecure, or told they're trying to derail women's issues. A lot of people don't even engage with the argument. They attack the motives instead. There's also social pressure from other men. Many …	/r/PurplePillDebate	21/07/26 01:13 AM
9	Women aren't as innocent as the crime stats make you believe Women get away with more because the system does not react to male and female wrongdoing the same way. A man is more likely to be viewed as dangerous, aggressive, or responsible before the full context is even known, while a woman is more likely to be viewed as less threatening, less intentional, or somehow pushed into the situation. That difference affects who gets stopped, searched, arrested, charged, convicted, and sentenced. The same bias also shapes what society notices in the first place. …	/r/PurplePillDebate	21/07/26 12:07 AM
4	what is it you think when men complain? I don't think women are generally better at advocating for men's issues because they care more about them. When women campaign for an issue, it's usually because it directly affects women or aligns with their own interests. The same is true for men. The bigger problem is that there isn't much incentive for women to prioritize men's issues. Most people naturally put more energy into problems that affect their own group. That's why expecting women to lead the charge on men's rights probably isn't …	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/07/26 11:58 PM
9	It isn't worth it to have casual sex with men I didn't say I was mad, so no need for such a silly reply. I just said it's crazy, especially if she isn't of real quality herself. That should be understandable, even for you.	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/07/26 11:54 PM
–	Dating is harder for men in their 30s vs their 20s due to increased market efficiency That explanation makes more sense then the other one at least. Since as far as marriage goes, women are generally the ones pushing for it across pretty much every stage of life, so with this new angle I can see where you're coming from better. If you really are a woman like your username suggests, though, it's going to be very difficult to fully understand how much harder dating is for the average man, even when we're only talking about short-term dating. Women generally prefer men with some rel…	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/07/26 11:36 PM
10	It isn't worth it to have casual sex with men Yeah, the problem is mainly when just any old woman has these types of demands. Of course they can, but it definitely sucks as a guy to need to be great in a ton of areas for anything but top-tier women.	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/07/26 11:25 PM
–	Dating is harder for men in their 30s vs their 20s due to increased market efficiency I'm addressing this part with that------> I notice 30s men lack maturity and they rush to get married but they don’t really have the skill set to keep her around.	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/07/26 11:18 PM
3	On Double Standards and the Problem of Male Sluts at the Gym That may explain some women, but it doesn't really answer what I said. My point was that there are women who get upset even over being looked at in public, especially in places like a busy gym where multiple men are naturally going to notice them throughout the day. Past harassment doesn't automatically make every negative reaction reasonable. People look at each other all the time. Simply noticing someone or briefly looking at them isn't the same as harassment. If someone gets angry over normal…	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/07/26 11:12 PM
6	A man without female friends is a red flag Yeah, but if they aren't rude about it, then there should be no issue. They may just choose to be romantic with women only and nothing more. You can't make that out to be bad when people choose to live their lives how they want, and if they aren't bothering anyone, there is no reason to villainize them.	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/07/26 11:08 PM
–	Dating is harder for men in their 30s vs their 20s due to increased market efficiency Nah that isn't the truth. Many men who rush into marriage are doing so because that's the direction their partner wanted as well. Women are often the ones pushing for marriage, so if a marriage happens before the couple is truly ready, that isn't automatically evidence that the man lacked maturity. By your logic, the same criticism would apply to the women encouraging it. Your point about prior serious relationships also doesn't really prove anything. Women initiate most breakups, and relationsh…	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/07/26 11:05 PM
–	Men insist on being married and having children when they clearly do not have the means to. I'm sure most people already know both men and women do this. Financial irresponsibility around marriage and children isn't a uniquely male behavior, so framing it that way is misleading from the start. If two adults choose to get married and have children despite knowing they aren't financially prepared, that decision belongs to both of them. Women aren't passive bystanders with no say over who they marry or whether they have children. They have agency every step of the way. You're taking a sha…	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/07/26 06:12 AM
10	"Some men aren't given the opportunity to show off their personality" is a victim narrative myth and a red flag. Well if women did that then they wouldnt be able to feel as if their personality is so speacial which a lot of times doesnt even need to be shown for them to get swipes anyway so most women should already know what the deal is. I mean, we've already had several women run these experiments over the past few years, and many of them were surprised by how different the experience actually was. Some were depressed within days once they saw how hard it was just to get a conversation started as a man.	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/07/26 05:06 AM
5	On Double Standards and the Problem of Male Sluts at the Gym Yeah, but some of those women get mad at men looking at them at all, especially if it's many different ones doing so, which will likely be the case if the gym has a good number of people.	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/07/26 04:51 AM
6	A man without female friends is a red flag Nah, that isn't true. Simply choosing not to pursue friendships with women isn't misogyny any more than choosing to only have female friends automatically makes someone a misandrist. People are allowed to decide what kinds of relationships they want without that meaning they hate or disrespect everyone outside that preference. Your race analogy doesn't work because you're assuming a preference automatically reflects contempt. If a man is disrespecting women, insulting them, or treating them as i…	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/07/26 04:48 AM
5	Women Sometimes Do Bad and Anti-Social Things towards Men and Boys. This is a Radical Idea to Women Here. What's funny is that they don't seem to realize those shaming tactics don't carry the weight they used to. If someone has already rejected that moral framework, calling them an incel or misogynist isn't persuasive anymore. It just gets dismissed as another attempt to shut down criticism instead of addressing the argument. It still needs to be called out, though, especially since some women will throw those labels at men for something as simple as listing their dating preferences. The labels have…	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/07/26 11:03 PM
10	A man without female friends is a red flag There's nothing inherently wrong with a man simply not wanting to pursue platonic friendships with women. Not every man has an interest in that, just like not every woman has an interest in having close male friends. A preference for keeping opposite-sex relationships limited to dating or family doesn't automatically mean he views women as inferior, only values them for sex, or lacks respect for them. It can simply be the kind of social boundaries he prefers.	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/07/26 07:50 PM
7	On Double Standards and the Problem of Male Sluts at the Gym I don't think that's what people are usually criticizing. Most people understand that clothing can be about comfort, confidence, or attracting a potential partner. The issue gets raised when someone is dressed in a way that's clearly meant to be sexually attention-grabbing and then acts offended that people notice or look. If you're intentionally presenting yourself in a way that's designed to attract attention, it's unrealistic to expect nobody to notice. Looking isn't the same thing as harassi…	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/07/26 07:33 PM
–	AI is now banned and also join our discord come argue with incels, misogynists and misandrists Yeah, that is what I was originally saying. I just said it shouldn't sound like a robot, as those posts or comments aren't too exciting to read or talk to, even more so than someone who isn't the best at writing good messages. So as long as it is decent, it should get a pass.	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/07/26 07:27 PM
4	Red pill "logic" applied to men shows the absurdity needed. I don't think that's an accurate representation of what most RP arguments are. The point isn't that men are oppressed in every area of society or that women collectively hold more institutional power. It's that there are areas, especially dating, family courts, and cultural expectations, where men's issues are minimized or treated differently. The examples you gave also don't really establish what you think they do. Pointing to politicians, billionaires, or extremists being mostly men doesn't te…	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/07/26 07:20 PM
9	The debate about age gaps in relationships reveals the double standard of blue pillers. That's how it usually works. Women generally get the benefit of the doubt for their preferences, while men's preferences are much more likely to be treated as a moral issue rather than just a preference. You see it with age, body count, weight, income, and even appearance. A woman can openly say she wants a tall, wealthy, confident man and it's usually framed as "knowing her worth" or "having standards." A man says he prefers younger women, a lower body count, or a healthy weight, and the conver…	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/07/26 07:11 PM
2	There’s no point in women freely give away sexual attention when men dont appreciate it. Not really. It's just the difficulty that men have nowadays, even for women below them.	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/07/26 07:05 PM
10	women dont think about men Nah, someone always has to talk to the other first, which is usually the man. Anyway, no need to continue trying to convince me. You already explained how you move, so unless your original message was a lie, then it's obvious the man did the work.	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/07/26 07:03 PM
–	AI is now banned and also join our discord come argue with incels, misogynists and misandrists Yeah, their focus will most likely be on those who make posts, though, not those engaging in debate in the comment section, from what I've seen.	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/07/26 07:01 PM
–	I genuinely believe most women would be happier if they put more emphasis on trying to start a family. I think that's a fair way to look at it. Nobody is saying every woman has to get married or have children, but people also shouldn't pretend those choices are just interchangeable with everything else. Humans are social, pair-bonding creatures, and reproduction is one of the strongest biological drives we have. It makes sense that building a family ends up being one of the biggest sources of meaning for many people. That doesn't mean everyone will choose it, only that it shouldn't be surprising …	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/07/26 06:36 AM
–	AI is now banned and also join our discord come argue with incels, misogynists and misandrists Well, obviously the mods do, which is why they have a rule for it now. I'd rather not feel like I'm speaking directly to a bot, so as long as it's understandable, I'll take the human. Most people's messages here are understandable on some level, so it's no real issue.	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/07/26 06:26 AM
3	Fellas, is it discriminatory for women to experience attraction? Discuss Well, that's simple. Just more fairness when it comes to this stuff.	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/07/26 06:13 AM
11	women dont think about men Well, you were able to find your husband with that attitude, you explained earlier regardless of whether it was back and forth it still likely had him making the first move.	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/07/26 06:11 AM
9	women dont think about men Well, you did say you found a husband, so there is no maybe if you are telling the truth, lol.	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/07/26 12:53 AM
4	why aren’t men happier about the fact that they can improve themselves to be more likeable to women? Well, it is if the woman is worth that. It just kind of sucks that men are expected to do all of that, often at a pretty high level, just to have a realistic chance of dating average or even below-average women. The issue isn't that self-improvement is bad. Most men already improve themselves because they want better outcomes. The frustration is with how high the bar can feel compared to what they're actually getting in return. That's why they complain, not because they think becoming more confi…	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/07/26 12:50 AM
1	Fellas, is it discriminatory for women to experience attraction? Discuss I guess we mostly agree, but as for preferences being sexist by the way men talk about them, I'm not so sure about that. Just stating the preference with nothing else added will still be viewed a man seeing women in a sexist way. These are just not preferences women are ever OK with men having, regardless of how it is presented.	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/07/26 12:45 AM
2	AI is now banned and also join our discord come argue with incels, misogynists and misandrists Well, of course, but it still sounds human at the end of the day and not like a bot.	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/07/26 12:39 AM
8	women dont think about men Well, you were able to find your husband with that attitude still, so yeah, maybe you didn't, but you are still enjoying a benefit that most men are likely to never get if they don't pursue.	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/07/26 12:36 AM
2	There’s no point in women freely give away sexual attention when men dont appreciate it. That's a pretty extreme way to frame it. Someone can be perfectly average and still consistently overlooked. That's the point.	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/07/26 10:49 PM
9	women dont think about men Yeah women can afford to look at it that way because they usually don't have to force the issue. You can simply wait until someone catches your attention, flirt if you feel like it, and see if he takes it further. Even if he's the more attractive person, there's still often an expectation that he'll be the one to initiate. That makes it much easier to have the mindset of, "If something happens, it happens." You're rarely in a position where waiting means nothing ever starts.	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/07/26 10:39 PM
5	Fellas, is it discriminatory for women to experience attraction? Discuss Well, they shouldn't be associating every man who has that preference with men who actually use those insults unless he is behaving that way himself. Having a body count preference is not the same thing as calling women names or insulting them. Also, we're talking about legal-age younger women, not kids. Bringing up creepy adults targeting 13-year-olds has nothing to do with men dating consenting adults. Those are completely different situations, so using one to judge the other isn't a valid com…	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/07/26 10:28 PM
4	Fellas, is it discriminatory for women to experience attraction? Discuss Yeah but we all know society outside of RP only really has the smoke for men that give theirs.	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/07/26 10:07 PM
3	Many women say that if a woman rejects a man, he should accept it and move on, never trying again. From what you described, she didn't give you much encouragement, then was disappointed when you took the hint and backed off. It sounds like she expected you to push through the walls she was putting up instead of treating them as a sign that she wasn't interested.	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/07/26 09:59 PM
5	Assuming women are unattracted to most men, can we really be blamed for lack of attraction? I never said looks are the only thing that matters. My point was that attraction has a much larger influence on how men are perceived than people often acknowledge. You even describe it yourself when you say attraction gets a man's foot in the door. That's already a massive advantage because many men never get through that first filter. Personality can't compensate if someone never gets the opportunity to show it. Elliot Rodger also doesn't really contradict my point. Being physically attractive…	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/07/26 09:42 PM
7	Fellas, is it discriminatory for women to experience attraction? Discuss Well men can't even bring up their preferences when the discussion is actually about preferences without people trying to shut it down. Women also generally aren't told they shouldn't let their preferences be known, so it's silly to tell men they shouldn't express theirs. You're talking about insulting random strangers, which isn't what I was talking about at all. Those women aren't asking those men for their opinion in the first place. The discussion is about expressing preferences during conve…	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/07/26 09:39 PM
8	Fellas, is it discriminatory for women to experience attraction? Discuss Nah women regularly criticize men's preferences by calling them insecure, shallow, controlling, misogynistic, or saying they're "objectifying women" when men prefer women with lower body counts, aren't attracted to obesity, or have age preferences. Those aren't just complaints about how men express their standards they're criticisms of the standards themselves. At the same time, women are often told their own preferences are simply preferences that should be respected. That's the inconsistency I…	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/07/26 09:31 PM
2	Fellas, is it discriminatory for women to experience attraction? Discuss I'm not talking for all men if you actually read what I said. I said "most men" because that's the position I see being argued far more often than "women should sleep with men they aren't attracted to." The second part is actually my point. If you agree attraction changes how identical behavior is perceived, then we're not really disagreeing. That's the observation I was making. The frustration comes from how often people deny or downplay that influence and instead insist it's mostly about confi…	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/07/26 09:27 PM
2	There’s no point in women freely give away sexual attention when men dont appreciate it. "Yeah, the redpill, which most men don't like either." Then we're talking about two different groups. You originally said "guys," not "the Red Pill." If your criticism is aimed specifically at the Red Pill, that's a much narrower claim than the one you originally made. "No, I didn't. The red pill does that, which is why they're constantly confused." The problem is that your post wasn't framed that way. You repeatedly referred to "guys," which naturally includes far more people than just the Red …	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/07/26 09:21 PM
8	Assuming women are unattracted to most men, can we really be blamed for lack of attraction? I don't think most men are angry that women can't control attraction. Most men already understand that. The frustration is that people often stop the conversation there, as if that answers everything. The question isn't whether women choose who they're attracted to. It's how that attraction affects everything else. The same confidence, flirting, or persistence can be seen as charming from one man and creepy from another simply because of who is doing it. Pointing that out isn't the same as blami…	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/07/26 06:30 AM
6	Fellas, is it discriminatory for women to experience attraction? Discuss I explained pretty well how it isn't the same.	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/07/26 06:19 AM
4	It’s not that women having inflated egos. It’s just a lot of guys underestimate a woman’s worth in the dating market. This argument starts by defining any average woman who gets regular male attention as a Stacy, which makes the claim impossible to challenge. Average women can receive far more attention than average men without secretly being highly attractive. Men generally cast a wider net, initiate more often, and are more willing to pursue women they would not seriously date. A woman having plenty of messages or hookup offers does not automatically make her above average. It also confuses options with attra…	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/07/26 03:26 AM
–	Old people have no understanding of how dating works today I think you're focusing on the wrong cutoff. Someone in their 30s can still have a very good grasp of modern dating, especially if they're still dating themselves or stay immersed in what's changed. The bigger disconnect usually starts when people have been out of the dating market for 15–20 years and aren't familiar with how apps, social media, and modern dating culture have changed things. I'd be much more skeptical of advice from someone in their late 40s, 50s, or older who's been married for…	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/07/26 03:07 AM
6	Fellas, is it discriminatory for women to experience attraction? Discuss Yeah, but men get very harsh terms that are socially acceptable thrown at them for theirs, which is what I was mainly getting at. Things such as insecure, shallow, controlling, or misogynistic. Also during discussions like this, women are the ones that love to say how men need to be accepting of women's preferences, then turn around and say things like that when men give theirs.	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/07/26 02:58 AM
5	Fellas, is it discriminatory for women to experience attraction? Discuss Some probably do, but that's not the argument I made. Most men already understand women respond better to men they're attracted to. The point is that attraction often changes how identical behavior is judged. Pointing that out isn't outrage over women having preferences it's recognizing that attraction influences perception more than people often admit.	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/07/26 02:54 AM
8	Fellas, is it discriminatory for women to experience attraction? Discuss What about women that want men with money but don't have any themselves, or men that are tall when they are short?	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/07/26 02:51 AM
–	If woman understand there own attraction and stuff, why then people do studies? I think surveys are definitely useful, but I also think they have limits. People can only report what they're consciously aware of, and even then they're influenced by things like social desirability, self-image, and memory. That doesn't necessarily mean they're lying, but it does mean self-reported preferences aren't always the full picture. That's why I think it's helpful to look at both stated preferences and actual behavior. If what people consistently choose lines up with what they say, tha…	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/07/26 01:50 AM
2	There’s no point in women freely give away sexual attention when men dont appreciate it. You're arguing against a position very few people actually hold. Most men aren't saying women should have casual sex they don't enjoy. They're asking why discussions about dating so often assume men's desires are inherently less legitimate than women's. You also keep switching between casual sex and relationships as if they're the same thing. If a woman doesn't enjoy casual sex or doesn't think the risks are worth it, then she shouldn't have it. Most people would agree with that. That doesn't au…	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/07/26 12:45 AM
7	Fellas, is it discriminatory for women to experience attraction? Discuss I think that's part of why these conversations go in circles. A lot of women agree that nobody is owed attraction or a relationship until men's preferences enter the discussion. Then suddenly there's pressure to justify them, especially if they're about things like body count, age, or weight. Those preferences tend to get moralized much more than women's preferences do.	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/07/26 12:17 AM
1	If below average men were given experience they would even themselves out. Yeah a good amount of people treat dating ability as if it's an innate trait, but a lot of it is learned through repetition. Confidence, reading social cues, flirting naturally, and handling rejection all come from experience, not from simply getting older. Which is what mostly men easily understand. The problem is that dating is self-reinforcing. Men who get opportunities early build confidence and social competence, which makes future opportunities more likely. Men who don't get those early ex…	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/07/26 12:11 AM
11	Fellas, is it discriminatory for women to experience attraction? Discuss You're arguing against a position I never took. I never said women should change who they're attracted to or sleep with men they don't want. Most men already understand women reject men they aren't attracted to. The point is that attraction doesn't just determine who gets rejected. It also changes how identical behavior is interpreted. The same confidence, joke, or approach can be seen as charming from one man and creepy from another simply because she's attracted to one and not the other. That'…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/07/26 11:31 PM
8	Fellas, is it discriminatory for women to experience attraction? Discuss I wouldn't say it's "fair" or "unfair." I'd say it's reality. Men and women don't face the same thresholds for being considered attractive, so telling both sexes to "just become more attractive" isn't equally practical.	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/07/26 11:25 PM
31	Fellas, is it discriminatory for women to experience attraction? Discuss I'd actually argue women are generally much harsher about men's preferences than the other way around. When men express preferences about things like body count, weight, or age, they're far more likely to be called insecure, misogynistic, controlling, or shallow. Women's preferences, even when they're just as exclusionary, are much more likely to be treated as simply "knowing your worth" or having standards. I also don't think men are mainly complaining because women are more selective. A lot of…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/07/26 10:57 PM
3	Fellas, is it discriminatory for women to experience attraction? Discuss Yeah, weight is still much more of a handicap for men, so he was still lucky to have opportunities come his way, especially if he really was around 500 pounds. He'd probably need a good amount of money or something else going for him to have many real dating options at that size. Most women aren't happy being overweight either, but in today's society especially in America being overweight is common enough that it doesn't automatically destroy their dating prospects. As long as they aren't severe…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/07/26 10:45 PM
5	The Red Pill Will Never Have Good Prescriptions Because Its Historical Claims About Gender Are Wrong. This argument only works by replacing "men and women have recurring sex-based tendencies and roles" with the much easier claim that women naturally did nothing except sit inside a 1950s suburban home. Those are not the same position. Women working throughout history does not disprove traditional gender roles. In preindustrial societies, nearly everyone worked because households were units of production. Women farmed, traded, produced goods, cared for children, and sometimes managed property. Men…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/07/26 09:38 PM
12	Fellas, is it discriminatory for women to experience attraction? Discuss I believe you're arguing against a position most men don't actually hold. Most men already understand women experience attraction and reject men they're not attracted to. That's not the issue. The complaint is that attraction often changes how identical behavior is judged. The same approach, joke, or level of confidence can be seen as charming from one man and creepy from another simply because of who's doing it. That's a real observation, not outrage that women have preferences. You also have t…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/07/26 09:29 PM
3	Fellas, is it discriminatory for women to experience attraction? Discuss I suppose you mean over time because if it were anytime soon, this would easily not be close to true. Anyway, even over time, it wouldn't be looked at as that bad, especially since it's not that easy to be that unattractive to the point this would become a problem if the woman is even in halfway decent shape and wears makeup, so it's not very likely. Of course, this is in regards to most men.	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/07/26 09:22 PM
11	Fellas, is it discriminatory for women to experience attraction? Discuss Maybe not all women are feminists, but a lot of women still react negatively when men express preferences they dislike. Body count, weight, and age preferences are obvious examples. The response is often to call the man insecure, shallow, controlling, or misogynistic instead of simply accepting that men are allowed to have standards too. The existence of spaces where women actively cater to male preferences does not erase the much broader social pattern of treating male preferences as suspect wh…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/07/26 09:17 PM
4	Fellas, is it discriminatory for women to experience attraction? Discuss Yeah, much slimmer could still have them at like 400, so that would still have them in a category where they will have it much harder getting anyone to take them seriously. So the deal could've been bad even for a big man, especially if he actually had other things going on that made his size not matter as much.	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/07/26 09:08 PM
6	When is it fair to say "you should have chosen better"? Years ago I might have agreed more, but calorie information is much harder to miss now. Federal law requires chains with at least 20 locations to display calories on their menus, and nutrition information is widely available online. At some point, lack of information is not the main problem for many people. The harder issue is that high-calorie food is often more enjoyable, convenient, and easier to keep eating than a disciplined diet. Even plenty of people who exercise still eat poorly. Some si…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/07/26 08:59 PM
7	When is it fair to say "you should have chosen better"? I think a lot of people know deep down. The harder part is accepting it because admitting your own habits are the primary reason for your situation can be painful. Self-deception is easier than making difficult changes. Plus, it's a lot more painful to not live that lifestyle, so it definitely isn't for everyone.	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/07/26 08:50 PM
7	When is it fair to say "you should have chosen better"? Outside of RP spaces, women usually have to make an extraordinary number of bad decisions before people will even acknowledge they played a role in the outcome. Until that point, the entire discussion revolves around what the man did, even when the warning signs were obvious and ignored repeatedly. It's one thing if someone genuinely deceived you. It's another if the behavior, reputation, or red flags were there from the beginning and you kept choosing the same type of person anyway. In the seco…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/07/26 08:45 PM
7	Women arent conditioned to do everything they do by society I think people often swing too far in the opposite direction. Saying society has no influence is just as simplistic as saying society determines everything. Women obviously have agency. They make choices and should be accountable for them. But agency and social influence aren't mutually exclusive. Everyone grows up with expectations, incentives, and norms that shape behavior to some degree. Men do too. Where I disagree with a lot of these discussions is that social conditioning is too often used…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/07/26 11:42 AM
13	CMV: Many of men's dating problems start With treating women as opportunities rather than people You're attributing motives that don't need to be there. Men don't have to resent or dehumanize women they're unlikely to date to explain why they behave differently around them. Men are generally expected to make relationships happen, so naturally they're going to invest more time and effort where they think there's a realistic chance of something developing. The idea that not trying to befriend every attractive woman means you don't see her humanity doesn't follow. Most people aren't looking to…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/07/26 11:36 AM
8	Men don't have a natural instinct to protect women I think you're taking a historical tendency and turning it into an absolute. Men have certainly committed violence against women throughout history, but that doesn't mean protective instincts don't exist. The two aren't mutually exclusive. Humans are perfectly capable of protecting some people while harming others depending on circumstance. You're also conflating "protecting the women of your group" with "protecting no women at all." Evolutionary and anthropological theories have long suggested …	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/07/26 11:29 AM
4	how frequently you turned on about men you see in public ? Yeah, men typically have to have a really good amount of clout, money, or attractiveness to really get that from women, and this is just a from average women, let alone ones considered more attractive.	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/07/26 11:20 AM
5	how frequently you turned on about men you see in public ? I'd be surprised if the averages were the same. Research generally finds that men experience spontaneous sexual attraction and sexual thoughts more frequently than women do. That doesn't mean women rarely find strangers attractive, just that the intensity and frequency tend to differ on average. So if you're comparing men and women, I wouldn't expect similar answers to that question.	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/07/26 11:16 AM
–	Modern Dating Is a Humiliation Ritual for Most Men I think a lot of what you're describing comes down to incentives more than hypocrisy. Women can genuinely believe in equality while still preferring traditional courtship because those preferences aren't necessarily driven by political ideology. Attraction and relationship expectations don't always line up with someone's broader worldview. That's why you'll see women who are progressive in almost every other area still expecting the man to initiate, lead, plan, and absorb most of the risk. On th…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/07/26 11:04 AM
7	Are power imbalances in relationships really that bad? I don't think the comparison works all that well because romantic relationships are fundamentally different from the examples you gave. Power isn't automatically viewed as a bad thing in relationships. In fact, many women seem to prefer a partner they can respect, look up to, and view as a leader. That often goes hand in hand with the man having greater influence in certain areas of the relationship. The existence of a power imbalance by itself isn't what determines whether a relationship is hea…	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/07/26 10:49 PM
5	A lot of liberal women struggle in dating because what they're truly attracted to and what they say they want are usually contradictory. I think you're focusing too much on liberal women when this is a much broader pattern. The gap between stated and revealed preferences isn't unique to them. Women across the political spectrum can say they value one set of traits while being more attracted to another in practice. Liberal women may make the contradiction more noticeable because they are often more explicit about requiring progressive politics and political compatibility in a partner. That still doesn't mean the underlying issue b…	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/07/26 10:26 PM
6	If woman understand there own attraction and stuff, why then people do studies? Because people aren't always fully aware of what drives their decisions, and what they say they want doesn't always match what they actually choose. Researchers use surveys because they're useful, but they also study real behavior to see whether stated preferences match actual partner selection. Looking at who people date, marry, or have children with provides another source of evidence rather than relying only on what people report about themselves.	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/07/26 10:21 PM
10	Its hypocritical for 🔵BP/Feminist society to be outraged at the likes of Bonnie Blue/Lily Philips or even Clavicular, since its just the end result of their own ideals (Sex Positive, Sexual Revolution, Sexual Autonomy). They really shouldn't be outraged if they're being consistent with the principles they're advocating. If consenting adults are free to use their bodies however they want, profit from their sexuality, and engage in legal sexual expression without shame, then Bonnie Blue and Lily Phillips are simply operating within that framework. They're responding to incentives that already exist. More attention leads to more views, more views lead to more money, and people naturally compete for that attention.…	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/07/26 06:38 AM
27	men are now more disillusioned with women than vice versa. I think there's some truth to the idea that distrust has increased on both sides, but I don't think it's as one-sided as you're making it. Women have always had reasons to be cautious when dating. The difference now is that men have become much more aware of the risks they face as well. A lot of men worry about false accusations, social shaming, losing access to their children, financial consequences after divorce, or investing heavily in someone who ultimately leaves. Whether those outcomes are…	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/07/26 06:01 AM
2	It’s unrealistic to expect men to find romance by just “living their lives.” Flings count as well. Anyway, men definitely interact with women way outside of that. They are way more open to speaking to a larger number of women than women are to men.	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/07/26 05:41 AM
8	Male Attraction is Treated as Normal and Women's Attraction is Seen as Shallow or Bad Well, if a man isn't looking for a life partner, then that doesn't matter. You ever think of that?	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/07/26 05:01 AM
8	Male Attraction is Treated as Normal and Women's Attraction is Seen as Shallow or Bad Yeah, women always try to find ways to make men's preferences a problem, like I was saying earlier.	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/07/26 04:57 AM
8	Male Attraction is Treated as Normal and Women's Attraction is Seen as Shallow or Bad See what you just did after I just pointed it out, lol. You did all that from men letting their preferences be known, so thanks for helping me prove my point.	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/07/26 04:45 AM
2	How would you feel about a "reverse orgasm gap*? Yeah, you are clearly wrong and just going in circles. Regardless, I didn't ask for your take to begin with. You decided to reply with your nonsense on this old reply.	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/07/26 04:39 AM
9	Male Attraction is Treated as Normal and Women's Attraction is Seen as Shallow or Bad When a woman says she likes tall men, the mainstream response is usually that she's entitled to her preference and men should move on. Compare that to a man saying he prefers younger women, a lower body count, or traditional femininity. He's much more likely to be called shallow, misogynistic, insecure, or controlling. Pointing to people complaining online doesn't really address the broader social response. The question isn't whether anyone objects to women's preferences. It's whose preferences …	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/07/26 04:38 AM
6	It’s unrealistic to expect men to find romance by just “living their lives.” Nope women have success doing that all the time so that is definitely not common. So maybe wherever you are from that is a thing.	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/07/26 04:34 AM
11	AI is now banned and also join our discord come argue with incels, misogynists and misandrists A quality-based rule makes more sense than a blanket AI rule because it targets the actual problem instead of the tool being used. If the content is obviously AI and hurts the quality of the subreddit, remove it. If it's good enough that it blends in with normal writing, then it's hard to argue it's creating the same issue.	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/07/26 11:40 PM
5	It’s unrealistic to expect men to find romance by just “living their lives.” Maybe you're talking about someone repeatedly showing up to the exact same place hoping something finally happens despite constant rejection. I can see how that could eventually come across as desperate. Going into new social spaces where you might meet someone isn't the same thing, though. Men can also much more easily come across as desperate because they're generally expected to create opportunities rather than wait for them. If a man isn't actively making things happen, he often ends up with…	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/07/26 11:33 PM
4	Dating Advice For Men Doesn't Work Because Women Don't Actually Know What They Want. A lot of the frameworks in that list assume you can figure out what women want, then optimize yourself around it. The problem is that what someone says they want and what they actually respond to don't always stay lined up. A guy can do everything a framework tells him to do and still end up confused because the target moved while he was trying to hit it. You see that outside dating all the time. People swear they're eating healthy, then order the burger. They say they're done spending money, th…	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/07/26 11:25 PM
3	men treat hoes differently I don't think that's a rebuttal at all. If anything, it explains why what I said happens. If men use different filters depending on whether they're looking for something casual or long term, then the way a woman presents herself naturally affects which filter gets activated first. A woman who dresses and carries herself in a more reserved way is more likely to be perceived as someone interested in a relationship. A woman who presents herself in a much more sexualized way is more likely to be per…	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/07/26 11:08 PM
1	How would you feel about a "reverse orgasm gap*? Nope, you missed the point entirely and just keep repeating nonsense, so it is probably best to stop, especially since you don't want to explain your claims.	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/07/26 10:59 PM
6	It’s unrealistic to expect men to find romance by just “living their lives.” That isn't really true because the expectations aren't the same. It's generally expected that women will put themselves in social spaces where they might meet men, and most don't come across as desperate simply because they're open to meeting someone. The women most likely to be viewed negatively are usually those whom men already find very unattractive, particularly if they're severely obese. Otherwise there is very little chance for them to look bad.	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/07/26 10:54 PM
5	CMV: Women shouldn't complain that men don't pull their weight in cooking + cleaning + parenting based on dubious self-reported statistics when they are willing to pay men for it. Women are generally cited as influencing something like seventy to eighty percent of consumer spending. That doesn't mean every purchase runs through a deliberate gender choice. Most people booking a caterer or a cleaner are chasing price and quality, not checking who's on the other end. Even so, a lot of that spending still ends up paying majority male professionals in cooking and parts of the cleaning industry. Professional kitchens staffed mostly by men show that people are perfectly willing …	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/07/26 06:33 AM
13	It’s unrealistic to expect men to find romance by just “living their lives.” That isn't really true because the dating dynamics aren't the same. A woman can put herself in spaces where she hopes to meet a man without coming across as desperate because men are generally expected to approach first. A man putting himself in those same spaces with the hope of meeting women is much more likely to be seen as desperate because he's the one expected to actively pursue. The same behavior isn't judged the same way, which is exactly why waiting is a much more viable strategy for wo…	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/07/26 05:40 AM
3	How would you feel about a "reverse orgasm gap*? I believe you're confused about what I said, or maybe you haven't really explained your own point, which could definitely be the case since your replies have been very short. When I say "on average," I'm talking about the overall pattern across billions of men and women. Men, on average, have a much stronger sex drive than women. Some men have an extremely high libido while others don't, but as a group the average is still much higher than it is for women. So if that flipped, women would become …	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/07/26 05:24 AM
12	It’s unrealistic to expect men to find romance by just “living their lives.” They absolutely can be taken seriously. Sure, some guys won't take them seriously, but that's true regardless of what strategy a woman uses. That doesn't change the fact that waiting can be a very successful strategy for women. Some women do exactly that and still end up finding relationships because men continue approaching them over time. Women also don't tend to come across as desperate simply for waiting the way men often do. A man who sits back and waits can easily end up with no opportunit…	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/07/26 05:09 AM
17	It’s unrealistic to expect men to find romance by just “living their lives.” Well, a good amount of men aren't Gen Z as well. Online can be hard work if they are having to swipe a ton on many different apps to get any interest, so that can definitely count.	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/07/26 05:02 AM
4	Unsuccessful men on the dating regard should just accept it and continue with their lives If it were really that easy, there wouldn't be so many men struggling to move on. The reality is that men, on average, have a much stronger sex drive than women do. That alone makes it much harder for many men to simply decide they no longer care about dating or sex. Hope is another major factor. Most men don't think, "I'll be alone forever." They think maybe next month, next year, or after they improve themselves things will finally work out. As long as that hope exists, they're going to keep t…	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/07/26 04:58 AM
4	How would you feel about a "reverse orgasm gap*? Yes, it actually would make a noticeable difference because men, on average, enjoy sex more than women do and generally have a much stronger sex drive. Men also tend to be easier to sexually satisfy. Those differences are a big part of why men pursue sex as much as they do in the first place. If those differences were reversed, it wouldn't just reduce men's motivation over time it would likely increase women's. The sex that experiences the stronger drive and gets more enjoyment from sex is natur…	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/07/26 04:31 AM
11	Male Attraction is Treated as Normal and Women's Attraction is Seen as Shallow or Bad Not weird at all since it likely comes up in different types of dating discussions, especially ones that ask men about said preferences.	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/07/26 04:24 AM
29	Male Attraction is Treated as Normal and Women's Attraction is Seen as Shallow or Bad That isn't close at all to how these situations are treated today. If anything, society is much quicker to criticize men's attraction and much more reluctant to criticize women's preferences. Women's standards are routinely defended as personal preference no matter how demanding they are. Whether it's height, income, confidence, status, education, or lifestyle, the response is usually that women are entitled to their preferences and men should either meet them or move on. Only communities like t…	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/07/26 04:14 AM
6	Men aren't supposed to be seductive Society has largely pushed things in that direction. Men are still expected to meet many of the traditional standards be confident, make the first move, provide value, plan dates, be emotionally steady, and remain attractive while women have been encouraged to reject many of the traditional expectations that were once placed on them. The result is that one side is expected to keep fulfilling its role while the other is increasingly told it should be accepted regardless of how much it contributes…	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/07/26 04:08 AM
5	men treat hoes differently The biggest difference you described isn't really attractiveness. It's how different men perceive the two groups before they even approach. The way someone presents themselves changes the expectations people have. If a woman dresses and carries herself in a more reserved way, many men are naturally more likely to assume she's looking for something serious or that casual sex isn't going to happen quickly. That tends to attract men who are willing to pursue a relationship or who adjust their behav…	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/07/26 04:00 AM
3	Q4W: Why do women get so much more leeway in terms of being insecure/jealous in dating/ relationships? That doesn't really address what I argued. My point wasn't that women or the general public see jealousy as proof of love. It was that women's jealousy is generally treated as more understandable and legitimate than men's. Whether a man personally likes a jealous partner has nothing to do with the social response each sex receives for expressing jealousy. A woman being upset over likes, follows, or attention toward other women is much more likely to have her concerns validated as protecting the …	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/07/26 03:56 AM
5	Women are to blame for doing more house work and not men Mess tolerance isn't something anyone picks. It shows up early and mostly stays put. A stack of dishes sitting out doesn't register as a problem to some people. To others the same stack feels like the room is falling apart. Part of why women tend to land lower on that scale probably traces back to how girls get raised around mess. Corrected more for clutter, praised more for keeping a room tidy, watched more closely growing up. That kind of repetition trains what counts as messy long before anyo…	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/07/26 07:28 PM
6	Just because a woman wants a relationship with you doesn't mean she desires you. Relationship status is a weak indicator of desire because relationships can be entered for reasons that have nothing to do with wanting someone the most. Stability, security, companionship, long-term compatibility, or simply deciding someone is a safe bet can all produce the exact same outcome. Looking at the relationship alone doesn't tell you which motivation mattered most. Casual sex is different because it removes most of those competing incentives. There isn't a long-term future being built…	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/07/26 07:05 PM
4	Why don't unattractive men want to completely eradicate their libido? You're acting as if there's only one possible outcome, when there are several. A high libido doesn't automatically mean a man is doomed to spend the rest of his life masturbating. As long as he's still alive, there's always the possibility of meeting someone in the future, especially if he's willing to lower his standards. A lot of men don't want to do that initially, but priorities change with age, and some eventually decide they'd rather have a decent partner than keep holding out for someone …	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/07/26 06:30 PM
3	Q4W: Why do women get so much more leeway in terms of being insecure/jealous in dating/ relationships? YEs that claim is correct. The original claim wasn't that women were never criticized for being upset about men looking at other women or liking thirst traps. It was that women generally received more leeway, more sympathy, and fewer social consequences for those boundaries. Pointing out that some women were called jealous or insecure doesn't disprove a broader social tendency. It only disproves a claim the OP never made. Your comparisons also aren't actually comparable. A man actively looking a…	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/07/26 06:24 PM
10	Men are not the arbiters of reasonable standards Having standards isn't the issue. The issue is whether those standards are realistic, consistently applied, and actually lead to better relationship outcomes. Simply because women choose their own partners doesn't mean their standards are beyond criticism. Men don't have to date men to recognize patterns in dating, just as women don't have to date women to have opinions about men's standards. If certain standards consistently leave people struggling to find compatible partners or repeatedly sele…	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/07/26 08:16 AM
–	which one of these preferences is more moral to have A lot more men probably would if it were actually legal. In most places it isn't, so "just hire an escort" isn't a practical solution for the average guy. Even if it were legal, it's not as appealing because it's a straightforward pay-for-play transaction. For many men, part of the appeal is naturally attracting a woman, even if their success or financial situation helped make them more attractive. Since society doesnt look at that as nearly the same thing. That feels fundamentally different fro…	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/07/26 07:50 AM
3	Women are emotionally more resilient and self-reliant as single women do not whine, cry, complain, and moan about being lonely nearly as much as single men do. You're treating men's reactions as though they exist in a vacuum while ignoring the differences that help explain them. On average, men have a stronger sex drive than women, so prolonged singleness is often experienced differently. That doesn't excuse unhealthy behavior, but it does make the comparison less straightforward than you're presenting. It's also much harder for men to talk about loneliness, dating struggles, or feeling unwanted in real life without being judged, mocked, or told to "ma…	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/07/26 07:38 AM
3	Q4W: Why do women get so much more leeway in terms of being insecure/jealous in dating/ relationships? That comparison still does not establish the same kind of social response men receive. Women criticizing other women for getting easy attention from sexualized posts were usually called jealous or insecure because nearly any woman can get likes that way if she chooses to post that kind of content. From that perspective, hating another woman for receiving predictable attention made little sense when the same option was broadly available to women themselves. I also doubt misogynistic was the main …	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/07/26 07:25 AM
3	we already agree on the principle, we're just not applying it consistently. Yeah, I wouldn't say it isn't good advice, but it's harder to do for men for sure, especially since we have way more drive on average to partner up.	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/07/26 07:11 AM
6	Why do they say that there are no benefits in a man having a woman as a friend? That should be perfectly acceptable. Women aren't obligated to be friends with men they don't want in their lives, so the same principle applies in reverse. Some men simply don't want friendships with women unless there's romantic or sexual interest, and there's nothing inherently wrong with that preference. If a man repeatedly has the kinds of experiences you described, it's understandable why he'd decide he no longer wants female friends. For some men, spending time with women is only worthwhi…	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/07/26 10:11 PM
3	Dating is harder for men in their 30s vs their 20s due to increased market efficiency You're arguing against a position I wasn't making. I wasn't talking about the women who spent their 20s accumulating kids from multiple relationships or bringing a mountain of baggage into their 30s. Those are exactly the kinds of situations many men are better off avoiding. My point is that most men aren't going to land the exceptionally attractive woman with little relationship history once they reach their 30s. That becomes increasingly unrealistic. What they can realistically do, if they spe…	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/07/26 10:04 PM
8	we already agree on the principle, we're just not applying it consistently. The underlying principle is more consistent than the social reaction to it. Most people would agree nobody is entitled to another person's body, time, labor, or resources. The difference is that people tend to recognize entitlement most readily when it resembles the forms of exploitation they're most familiar with. Women are generally more attuned to sexual exploitation, while men are generally more attuned to being valued primarily for what they can provide. Both are legitimate concerns, yet on…	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/07/26 08:55 PM
6	Q4W: Why do women get so much more leeway in terms of being insecure/jealous in dating/ relationships? You're sidestepping the point by turning it into "everyone has different opinions." Nobody claimed there was an absolute consensus. The point is about broad social norms and which insecurities tend to receive validation versus ridicule. Your own examples actually illustrate that the standards aren't applied as consistently as you're suggesting. A man being uncomfortable with revealing social media posts is frequently told he's insecure or controlling because "she can wear what she wants." Yet a …	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/07/26 08:25 PM
1	we already agree on the principle, we're just not applying it consistently. The line works better on women since they typically will have a lot more options to do so, unlike most men. Not to say he shouldn't, but it can definitely be harder to get options, let alone decent ones that won't do this type of stuff.	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/07/26 08:19 PM
4	What do you mean exactly when you say that men are “disappointing”? When women say men are "disappointing," they're often not saying men are bad people. They're saying the men they're encountering fall short of what they expected dating and relationships to be like. From this perspective, "disappointing" usually means the average man isn't matching the qualities they hoped to find. That can include confidence, ambition, social skills, emotional stability, physical attractiveness, financial stability, leadership, or simply the ability to make them feel attracted …	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/07/26 08:14 PM
5	Q4W: Why do women get so much more leeway in terms of being insecure/jealous in dating/ relationships? That does not match how these situations are usually treated now. Women’s jealousy is often framed as understandable, protective, or proof that she cares, while men expressing similar discomfort are quickly called insecure or controlling. A woman can be upset over likes, follows, glances, or attention toward another woman and still receive plenty of social validation for it. A man raising concerns about revealing posts, obvious flirting, clubs, or close male friends is much more likely to be tol…	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/07/26 07:44 PM
–	Men don't ask women to have low standards, they ask women to have realistic ones That's understandable, but if your standards consistently revolve around men who have far more options than you, then it shouldn't be surprising when those men don't choose you for a serious relationship. Some women who are a 4 or 5 convince themselves they should be able to lock down an 8 or 9 because those men were willing to give them attention or sleep with them. Then, when commitment never comes, instead of questioning whether they were aiming far above their relationship market, they concl…	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/07/26 07:33 PM
2	People want for relationships is strongly tied to what they have been taught and culture I think a lot of it comes down to people wanting things that close friendships usually can't provide. For many men especially, a romantic relationship isn't just about having someone around. It's about sexual intimacy, building a family, emotional connection, exclusivity, and having a partner to share life with. Those are things a friendship generally doesn't replace. You're right that younger generations are more accepting of staying single, and for people who genuinely don't want a relationshi…	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/07/26 07:27 PM
1	Dating is harder for men in their 30s vs their 20s due to increased market efficiency Yeah, the most successful guys. That's not the common experience for most men, which Is a bit surprising that you don't recognize given that you're RP. Using the men who had the easiest time dating early doesn't tell us much about the average man. Most men don't have those kinds of options in their 20s, so pointing to the most successful examples isn't representative of how men generally experience the dating market.	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/07/26 06:58 PM
9	Why don't unattractive men want to completely eradicate their libido? Because that's simply part of being a man, and for many men it's one of the main things that motivates them to improve their lives, take risks, and pursue relationships in the first place. Getting rid of their libido wouldn't just remove frustration, it would also remove one of their biggest drives. Many men also hold onto hope that things can improve. Just because they're struggling today doesn't mean they believe they'll struggle forever. Removing their libido means giving up on that possibili…	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/07/26 05:13 AM
4	Dating is harder for men in their 30s vs their 20s due to increased market efficiency I think that's true for men who are already highly attractive in their 20s, but they aren't representative of most men. A lot of men, including plenty of good men, aren't viewed as total catches right out of the gate. They have to build themselves into that through their careers, finances, confidence, and overall stability. That's one of the biggest differences between men and women. On average, women generally have the opportunity to date and find long-term relationships throughout their 20s, w…	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/07/26 04:49 AM
–	Men don't ask women to have low standards, they ask women to have realistic ones Yeah, some women definitely do that, especially if they are at least average-looking. An average woman can still receive enough compliments, matches, attention, and occasional access to highly desirable men that her perception of her own dating value becomes inflated. The problem is that attention is not the same as commitment. A more attractive man being willing to sleep with her does not necessarily mean he sees her as an equal long-term option. If she treats that temporary access as proof tha…	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/07/26 03:55 AM
9	Dating is harder for men in their 30s vs their 20s due to increased market efficiency I think your conclusion overlooks how differently men can end up in their 30s. Self-improvement can absolutely help, but it doesn't guarantee a better dating market. For one, not every man ages well in terms of attractiveness. A man can looksmaxx, stay in shape, keep his hair, and still not be as desirable to many women as he was when he was younger. Age affects people differently, so simply "doing the work" doesn't guarantee the outcome you're describing. The other factor is standards. Some men…	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/07/26 03:44 AM
4	Dating is harder for men in their 30s vs their 20s due to increased market efficiency I don't think those situations are really comparable. For many men, their 20s are spent trying to build themselves into someone women find attractive enough for long-term commitment. They're getting established financially, building confidence, advancing their careers, and becoming more competitive in the dating market. For women, it's different because they've generally had far more dating and relationship opportunities throughout their 20s. If a woman reaches her 30s still single, it's fair to…	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/07/26 03:19 AM
5	Handsome and Socially intelligent dude tries for 6 months in dating apps and failing miserably, shows that as a man if you want playtime, you must make dating your everything to get anything in the dating market Well, he did say he was only using Hinge for this experiment, so that's definitely not a good move for a guy. Dating apps are already hard enough for men, so limiting yourself to just one for six months makes even less sense. At the very least, it's better to be on a few different apps instead of putting all your hopes into a single one.	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/07/26 03:08 AM
5	Q4W: Why do women get so much more leeway in terms of being insecure/jealous in dating/ relationships? Women get more leeway because society is generally far less willing to judge women harshly for dating behavior, especially when the criticism could make women uncomfortable. A woman’s jealousy is often treated as understandable, while a man expressing an unfavorable boundary or preference is quickly labeled insecure, controlling, possessive, or threatened. That difference matters because those labels are not applied neutrally. They are often used to shame men out of standards that inconvenience …	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/07/26 02:48 AM
19	Why do they say that there are no benefits in a man having a woman as a friend? Yeah, it can be in some cases, as long as he doesn't have romantic feelings for her. If the attraction isn't there and both people genuinely see each other as friends, then a female friendship can absolutely be valuable for some men. Things like trust, loyalty, shared interests, and support aren't exclusive to either sex. The biggest complication is when one person wants more than friendship. That's usually where problems start, because the relationship is no longer built on the same expectation…	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/07/26 02:40 AM
6	The idea that most men who struggle in the modern sexual marketplace are socially inept is a blue pill caricature Either that, or some men end up taking really bad deals just to be with someone, whether that's settling for a woman they aren't genuinely attracted to, a woman who's extremely bad off in some way, or both.	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/07/26 02:36 AM
5	The idea that most men who struggle in the modern sexual marketplace are socially inept is a blue pill caricature That actually reinforces my point. A man can have perfectly normal social skills and still fail because dating requires several conditions to align at the same time: attraction, availability, proximity, timing, and an actual opportunity to meet. None of those are guaranteed. That is why reducing male dating failure to “poor social skills” is so incomplete. Social skill only matters after access exists. It cannot create compatible women nearby, make them single, make them attracted, or guarantee …	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/07/26 02:25 AM
5	The Voice Memo Guy, Proves Women Also Can’t Handle Rejection. Im not saying consent can be given hours or days in advance and remain valid regardless of what happens later. Consent still has to exist at the time of the encounter, and either person can change their mind. The point is that he was being honest about what he was looking for before investing more time. That's not the same as asking her to pre-consent to sex. He was communicating his expectations for continuing the relationship, giving her the opportunity to decide they weren't compatible and wa…	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/07/26 02:19 AM
4	The disparity between good men and good women One reason that can happen is that society generally doesn't tell women they're bad partners nearly as often as it tells men they're bad partners. Men constantly receive messages about improving themselves, communicating better, earning more, being more confident, and treating women better. Women certainly receive criticism too, but it's much less common for society to seriously question whether they're good partners unless their behavior is extremely bad. Because of that, it's easier for many w…	/r/PurplePillDebate	12/07/26 04:05 AM
11	The Voice Memo Guy, Proves Women Also Can’t Handle Rejection. Many women say they want men to be more honest, communicate their intentions clearly, and obtain explicit consent, yet situations like this show why men often feel they're being given conflicting expectations. If a man is upfront that sexual compatibility is important to him and that he doesn't want to continue dating without it, he's giving the woman the information she needs to decide whether they're compatible. She is completely free to say no and walk away. That doesn't mean his approach is …	/r/PurplePillDebate	12/07/26 03:38 AM
1	I have a question. Why do men seem to care more about what women do more than women care more about what men do? Yeah looks like I did 20 days ago.	/r/PurplePillDebate	12/07/26 03:31 AM
3	The Red Pill is a conspiracy based on low understanding of Sociology. That is just your assumption that the vast majority of Red Pill supporters don't understand these concepts. That's a claim that still needs to be demonstrated, not assumed. It's also possible many understand the concepts just fine but aren't always very good at applying them consistently in real time. That's a different criticism than saying they fundamentally don't understand them. More importantly, someone can fully understand a framework and still reject it because they think it explains real…	/r/PurplePillDebate	12/07/26 03:29 AM
4	Women control the grey area I think it's probably a combination of several things rather than just one reason. Some women don't want to feel pressured, so even a direct question can feel like they're being asked to make an immediate decision. Others prefer attraction to develop naturally and find explicit discussions about sex early on to be awkward or unromantic. Modern dating also sends mixed messages. Men are often told to communicate clearly and get enthusiastic consent, yet they're also expected to read subtle cues, b…	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/07/26 03:43 PM
13	The Red Pill is a conspiracy based on low understanding of Sociology. I actually think the Red Pill does a better job than most groups at breaking these issues down. Whether people ultimately agree with its conclusions is a separate question, but one of the reasons it has resonated with so many men is that it attempts to explain recurring dating patterns and social dynamics instead of dismissing men's experiences outright. I also don't think it's fair to suggest Red Pill supporters simply don't understand these concepts. Many understand how sociology defines terms…	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/07/26 03:36 PM
5	Women who choose to remain single are viewed as empowered, men are not I think a big reason is that society still measures men's worth much more by what they produce and provide than by whether they're personally fulfilled. A woman choosing to stay single is often seen as someone protecting her peace and living life on her own terms. A man making the same choice is much more likely to be viewed as someone who has given up, failed, or isn't contributing the way he's expected to. That makes sense when you consider traditional gender expectations haven't disappeared e…	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/07/26 05:56 AM
–	Do most women take the marriage and kids revelation as positive or negative realistically? Yeah, I think that definitely happens for some women. As the party phase winds down, priorities change and many start looking for a serious relationship, marriage, and children instead. That doesn't automatically mean they're desperate. Sometimes it's a genuine change in what they want. That said, it's also understandable why some men question it. If a woman spent years rejecting men like him and only becomes interested once she's looking to settle down, he'll naturally wonder whether she's choo…	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/07/26 05:15 AM
18	When (and if) unattractive men get money and status as they get older, what happens? Yeah, a lot of women already do this with men anyway. A man's income, stability, or status can make him more appealing as a long-term partner even when the physical attraction isn't particularly strong. It just becomes much more pronounced at the top because the incentives are much greater. That's why men in that position are probably better off enjoying those relationships casually rather than assuming they're automatically built on genuine desire. There's nothing wrong with having fun if both …	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/07/26 04:49 AM
3	I don't think women love men the way men love women and that's not a bad thing Yeah, I think men's love is generally more genuine in the sense that it's less conditional. Men are often willing to love and sacrifice for a woman simply because they love her, even when she isn't providing status, resources, or other tangible benefits. That's one reason men have historically been more willing to risk their lives to protect women. That doesn't mean women's love is fake. It just tends to be more conditional on qualities like competence, confidence, ambition, stability, and the a…	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/07/26 04:42 AM
4	Q4W: What fraction of men do you think experience genuine sexual desire from a woman at least once during his life? What fraction of men do you think are capable of experiencing it? I don't think it's as rare as 5%, but I do think it's unevenly distributed. A relatively small percentage of men probably experience genuine, unsolicited sexual desire from women on a regular basis. Many average men may experience it only occasionally, and often not from women they're especially attracted to. The top men simply experience it more consistently and from a broader range of women.	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/07/26 04:02 AM
5	Passport bros is the only real solution for average and below average men. And men and women should agree with it Yeah, this really shouldn't be seen as a big deal. If women are free to seek partners wherever they believe they'll be happiest, then men should have that same freedom without being shamed for it. There's nothing inherently wrong with looking outside your own country if that's where someone believes they're more likely to find a compatible relationship. A lot of the criticisms don't really hold up because the same arguments could be made about the women in those countries. If someone says, "They…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/07/26 11:15 PM
2	Men don’t want relationships, they want service Obviously the point is that if one partner no longer genuinely desires the other long term, it's reasonable for the other person to see that as a major relationship problem and decide to leave. Wanting mutually desired sex isn't the same as trying to negotiate or force desire.	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/07/26 11:03 PM
–	Men are more shallow than women and you know it Men caring about looks still does not make them automatically more shallow. Women often evaluate men across a much wider range of traits: height, face, body, confidence, social skill, status, income, ambition, experience, charisma, and the ability to lead and pursue. A man may care strongly about physical attraction, but his standards are often simpler and more flexible than the full package many women expect. The pursuit dynamic matters too. Men are generally expected to approach, create intere…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/07/26 10:49 PM
6	Question for women: When you genuinely like a guy and feel like the interest might be mutual, what do you actually expect him to do? From what I've seen, if a woman genuinely likes a man and believes the interest is mutual, she usually expects him to move things forward. That doesn't necessarily mean grand romantic gestures, but it often means initiating conversations, asking her out, showing clear intent, and taking the lead instead of waiting indefinitely for perfect certainty. Many women say they want things to happen naturally, but "naturally" still often involves the man making the first move and creating momentum. Confi…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/07/26 07:44 PM
–	Why do women so drastically change their mind about marriage? That would make sense, especially because marriage often gives women more upside and more protection if it ends. Men are still commonly expected to propose, provide, protect, and carry the financial burden, while women often receive more social sympathy, legal protection, and practical support when the relationship breaks down. So it is not surprising that women may push harder for marriage while also being quicker to leave when the marriage no longer feels emotionally fulfilling. If marriage is…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/07/26 07:35 PM
5	Men don’t want relationships, they want service Of course there's more to relationships than sex, but sex is still one of the main reasons most men pursue romantic relationships in the first place. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. If hugs, companionship, and emotional connection were enough on their own, most men probably wouldn't be willing to take on the amount of rejection, initiation, competition, and risk that dating typically requires. That doesn't mean men only care about sex. Most are looking for affection, companionship, l…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/07/26 07:29 PM
5	Boys are supposed to BECOME men One reason is that men historically didn't have the luxury of being emotionally fragile because the cost of failure was much higher. A man who couldn't hunt, fight, protect, or endure hardship didn't just risk his own well-being he risked his family's and sometimes his entire community's survival. Traits like resilience, emotional control, and perseverance were rewarded because they increased the chances of survival. That doesn't mean men shouldn't have emotions. It means there were strong evolu…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/07/26 07:14 PM
5	Men don’t want relationships, they want service Yeah, women often try to frame it in the worst way possible and make it seem evil to want something that many men desire quite a bit. It's the main driving force behind why many men take on so much risk in the first place. Saying the type of stuff they do about it is silly for sure.	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/07/26 07:06 PM
3	Lots of the frustrations in the current dating world are from some men refusing to accept that most women are generally more valuable than most men No, mine wasn’t idiocy at all, unlike what I just read, which was a silly response for sure. You're making a huge leap from "women are generally less physically dangerous" to "women are more moral." Those are not the same thing. Being physically weaker doesn't automatically make someone more virtuous. Morality is about choices, not physical capability. A person's inability to inflict the same level of physical harm doesn't prove they're a better human being. You also say women have always been w…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/07/26 06:56 PM
4	Let's speculate about men who claim misandry, etc. I think that's a reasonable distinction. If a man married a woman who was fit and that physical attraction was one of the things that drew him to her, it isn't wrong for that preference to remain. Pregnancy and recovery are obviously different. Most reasonable men understand that her body will change and that it takes time to recover, so expecting her to immediately return to her previous shape would be unfair. Where I disagree is if we're talking years later and she's made no real effort to get…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/07/26 11:21 AM
3	Lots of the frustrations in the current dating world are from some men refusing to accept that most women are generally more valuable than most men Because reality doesn't change just because it's unpleasant. Knowing the truth gives someone the chance to adapt instead of wasting years chasing advice that doesn't match how the world actually works. The Red Pill isn't helpful because it tells men they'll all become the attractive guy. It's helpful because it encourages men to focus on what they can control rather than believing everyone starts on equal footing or that the world will eventually reward them just for being themselves. That's a m…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/07/26 11:10 AM
5	Let's speculate about men who claim misandry, etc. I don't think women should be bullied out of their preferences, but by the same token, women shouldn't try to shame or bully men out of theirs either. That's the part that often gets overlooked. If both sexes are free to have preferences, then both sexes should be free to express them without being told they're immoral, insecure, misogynistic, or entitled simply because those preferences are unpopular. This is especially frustrating given that men generally have the harder road in dating. They'r…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/07/26 10:56 AM
–	Social justice for me but not for thee: Common female reactions to the 'hiplet' trend versus to heightshaming men are showing their double standards and inherent view of males as lesser beings - just as the trend intended Yeah, this really shouldn't be surprising. Society has consistently been much more willing to rally around women's insecurities than men's. When women are body shamed, the conversation quickly becomes about changing attitudes and reducing the stigma. When men are mocked for something like height, the response is much more likely to be "just be confident," "stop being insecure," or "work on your personality." The standards are simply different. One side is encouraged to expect social change, whil…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/07/26 10:48 AM
6	Men don’t want relationships, they want service Nah, if that was one of the main reasons he wanted to be in a relationship, then it isn't selfish at all, especially if both people understood and agreed to that expectation before the relationship even started. Wanting one of the core things that drew someone into a committed relationship isn't the same as believing you're entitled to another person's body. No, he won't physically die without sex, but people can absolutely feel emotionally broken or deeply unhappy when one of the biggest reason…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/07/26 10:38 AM
4	Men don’t want relationships, they want service Doesn't matter its still reasonable.	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/07/26 10:31 AM
2	Politics matter in dating, why the red pill is political,and why women generally reject the red pill. That has already been covered. So first you pretend I didn't answer any of your questions now you are pretending like certain things weren't already addressed.	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/07/26 10:30 AM
5	Men don’t want relationships, they want service Wanting sex to remain a major part of a relationship is not inherently horrible or abusive. For many men, sexual intimacy is one of the main reasons they are willing to invest so much time, effort, commitment, protection, and provision into a relationship in the first place. It makes sense that once they enter one, they expect that important benefit to remain part of the relationship rather than disappear entirely. That does not mean marriage is blanket consent or that pressure and coercion are …	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/07/26 12:58 AM
5	Politics matter in dating, why the red pill is political,and why women generally reject the red pill. It's kind of funny how this went from saying I wasn't addressing your claims to now responding to the very claims you said I wasn't addressing. I did address one of your main themes from the beginning. My point was that many criticisms of the Red Pill focus on the people, reputation, and labels attached to it instead of directly engaging with its arguments. You disagreed with that point, which is fine, but that's very different from saying I wasn't addressing your post. Now you're arguing that t…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/07/26 12:49 AM
4	Let's speculate about men who claim misandry, etc. I don't think many men would disagree that humor, kindness, intelligence, and similar traits matter. The question is what gets someone through the door in the first place. Saying "my gut decides" doesn't really answer what influences that gut feeling or why certain men consistently generate it while others don't. The apps also don't really explain the broader pattern. If the issue were simply that apps fail to capture quirky personalities, then average men would be doing much better once they me…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/07/26 12:44 AM
16	After a lot of self-reflection, I realised that men create their own problems and blaming women is counterproductive and harmful This isn't some groundbreaking realization. Men already hear this message everywhere. If a man fails in dating, marriage, finances, or life in general, the default response is almost always that he should have made better choices, worked harder, improved himself, or accepted the consequences. Men are already held accountable by society. That's why this argument doesn't really move the conversation forward. Very few people are telling men they have no responsibility for their own lives. The disag…	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/07/26 06:15 PM
5	Let's speculate about men who claim misandry, etc. No, I think you're still reframing the argument. No one is saying women literally sit down with a checklist or run men through HR. The point is that standards exist whether they're written down or not. Attraction isn't random. It's influenced by the traits someone values, consciously or unconsciously. If a woman consistently rejects average men while only finding a much smaller group attractive, it's reasonable to ask whether her standards are realistic or whether they're being shaped by factors…	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/07/26 05:57 PM
4	Politics matter in dating, why the red pill is political,and why women generally reject the red pill. One of your main themes was that the Red Pill's underlying issues get dismissed instead of being addressed. My response speaks directly to that by arguing that many criticisms focus on the people, reputation, or stereotypes associated with the Red Pill rather than engaging with its actual claims. So maybe trying rereading it again with that understanding.	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/07/26 05:51 PM
1	if given two options, 99.9% of women would choose the shy guy over a serial killer It really doesn't happen very often at all without major pushback. The phrase "choose better" exists, but in practice it's frequently condemned as victim blaming or misogynistic when directed at women. That's why it rarely becomes the accepted takeaway from those discussions. The criticism is usually redirected back toward the man, while criticism of the woman's choices is treated much more cautiously. I also don't think I went off topic. Your post wasn't just about whether women consciously pre…	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/07/26 05:48 PM
5	Let's speculate about men who claim misandry, etc. Nah, that isn't the reason that's usually being argued. The point isn't that women should pair up with men they have zero attraction to. It's that many men question whether modern dating standards have become inflated or inconsistent, especially when average people expect well above average outcomes. There's a big difference between saying "date someone you don't want" and saying "have realistic standards." Those are not the same argument. The first ignores attraction entirely. The second questi…	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/07/26 06:46 AM
9	Lots of the frustrations in the current dating world are from some men refusing to accept that most women are generally more valuable than most men I think that's a fair point. Society has become much more willing to question traditional expectations placed on women, while many traditional expectations placed on men have remained largely intact. Men are still generally expected to initiate, pursue, pay, propose, provide, and absorb rejection, yet asking women to reciprocate more often is frequently framed as sexist or insecure. That doesn't mean every change has been negative or that every traditional role should return. The issue is consis…	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/07/26 06:18 AM
–	Most women don't consider themselves average, and that's a problem Yeah, that can easily be part of it. Women don't have to be in the top tier to receive special treatment in dating. An average woman can still have men approaching her, paying for dates, giving compliments, making the first move, and competing for her attention. For men, that kind of treatment is usually reserved for the small percentage who are exceptionally attractive, successful, or high status. That difference in experience can naturally shape how people see themselves. If you're consistentl…	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/07/26 06:07 AM
9	Lots of the frustrations in the current dating world are from some men refusing to accept that most women are generally more valuable than most men Oh no argument so this silly stuff is said.	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/07/26 06:01 AM
7	There are no blue pill influencers for men because the lies don't work That's because the blue pill doesn't really offer much of a framework for men anymore. A lot of the discussion has become reacting to or criticizing the Red Pill instead of giving men an alternative that actually explains their experiences or helps them navigate dating. Simply saying "RP is wrong" isn't a substitute for a worldview. If the alternative doesn't resonate with men's lived experiences, it's not surprising that many men end up looking elsewhere.	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/07/26 02:39 AM
–	How much does past sexual experience shape your current sexual preferences? Past experiences obviously influence preferences. That's true for sex just like it's true for food, hobbies, or relationships. The bigger question is whether those preferences become the standard future partners are measured against. If someone says an ex defined what they enjoy sexually, it's reasonable for a future partner to wonder whether they're being accepted for who they are or expected to recreate someone else's performance. That's not insecurity. Most people don't want to feel like they…	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/07/26 01:03 AM
2	What Aspects of Men's dating life do you have find yourself getting jealous of? With dating, women definitely do, and it isn’t even close. Other than that, yeah, for the most part, both do for sure.	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/07/26 12:53 AM
2	What Aspects of Men's dating life do you have find yourself getting jealous of? Yeah, I know. I read it. I’m just stating that those same types of risks exist on the men’s side to worry about as well. Of course, you can still be jealous if you want.	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/07/26 12:50 AM
6	What Aspects of Men's dating life do you have find yourself getting jealous of? You listed a lot of the downsides women face, and many of them are real. The issue is that men have their own set of risks that don't simply disappear because women have different ones. You also say dating is safer for men, but that depends on what you're measuring. Men generally don't have to worry as much about sexual assault, but they can absolutely have to worry about violent or unstable exes. There are men who have been attacked or threatened by a current partner's ex despite having nothing…	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/07/26 12:42 AM
5	Being her best sexually isn't that important and is unrealistic Calling it insecure or whatever else doesn't actually address the preference. It's just a way of shaming men into dropping a standard they don't like. People are allowed to care about a partner's past without that automatically meaning they're insecure. By that logic, almost any dating preference could be dismissed as insecurity. Someone who prefers a financially stable partner could be called insecure. Someone who wants loyalty could be called insecure. Someone who wants a partner without child…	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/07/26 12:24 AM
17	Lots of the frustrations in the current dating world are from some men refusing to accept that most women are generally more valuable than most men That's a big part of why the Red Pill is helpful for many men. It teaches them to recognize reality for what it is instead of letting comforting narratives shape how they see the world. Once you stop giving those narratives authority over your self-worth, they lose much of their power. For a lot of men, there really isn't much on the blue pill side because it often asks them to ignore experiences they've repeatedly lived through. Even being purple can end up falling short if it still requires ho…	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/07/26 12:19 AM
7	Politics matter in dating, why the red pill is political,and why women generally reject the red pill. The biggest issue is that many criticisms of the Red Pill focus more on the people than the arguments. It's common to point to bitter men, extreme forum posts, or bad behavior and then treat that as a refutation of the broader ideas. That doesn't actually address whether the underlying observations are true. If someone claims men are generally expected to initiate, absorb rejection, provide, compete for attention, or face different standards in dating and relationships, the response should be to…	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/07/26 12:11 AM
–	Which women do men (you) like/love more? The premise doesn't really work because you're trying to isolate sex from the very things that make love possible. Men don't love women simply because they have sex with them. If that were true, every hookup would turn into love, which obviously isn't the case. What many men do value is sexual desire from the woman they're actually invested in. A wife who only wants sex once a month isn't competing against a random woman because she's having less sex. She's competing against the feeling that her…	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/07/26 12:02 AM
29	Lots of the frustrations in the current dating world are from some men refusing to accept that most women are generally more valuable than most men Society does not treat women as more valuable because women are just objectively better human beings one by one. It treats women as more valuable because female attention, fertility, safety, and approval have always carried more social weight. That is not a moral statement. It is just how people tend to behave. Women are protected more, sympathized with more, forgiven more, and socially centered more because people instinctively view harm to women as more serious and female approval as more impo…	/r/PurplePillDebate	08/07/26 10:34 PM
3	What Aspects of Men's dating life do you have find yourself getting jealous of? I doubt it, because if most women were genuinely jealous of the male side of dating, you'd expect to see much more pressure to change the gender roles that men are expected to fulfill. Instead, many of those expectations remain widely accepted. Men are still generally expected to initiate, approach, plan dates, risk rejection, make the first move, propose, and often pay. Those are all parts of the dating process that place more responsibility on men. That suggests most women don't actually view …	/r/PurplePillDebate	08/07/26 06:09 PM
–	If you're a regular, average guy, you don't need to relate on dating apps Nah, if you struggle even when knowing you have an addiction problem, it’s really that simple. All things that people are addicted to are addictive in some way and were designed to help people become addicted to them, so that isn’t anything new. There probably aren’t too many products that exist, or ever have existed, where that wasn’t the case. Hell, the people who got addicted to dating apps likely got addicted to fast food or gambling at casinos at some point. The thing is, they just need to …	/r/PurplePillDebate	08/07/26 05:56 PM
5	Men who don’t approach IRL are behaving in the way they’ve been instructed No, it is true. Society tries to backtrack on the idea to take the steam out of RP, but it was definitely given as dating advice. It’s been over a decade since it was common, so you may not really know if you’re too young.	/r/PurplePillDebate	08/07/26 05:48 PM
3	CMV: men are embarassing Yeah, that's exactly why those arguments come across as hollow to a lot of men. The reality is that most women are not walking around with a genuine interest in most men. Most men are invisible to them, and women themselves openly admit they are only attracted to a small percentage of men. There is nothing inherently wrong with that, but once that is acknowledged, it becomes difficult to argue that men owe women some broad emotional investment simply because they are women. People naturally care…	/r/PurplePillDebate	08/07/26 06:42 AM
18	Men who don’t approach IRL are behaving in the way they’ve been instructed Yeah, that's exactly why so many men found the red pill valuable despite all the criticism. For years, men were told that simply being nice, waiting for the right moment, or just being themselves would naturally lead to success. At the same time, they were increasingly told that approaching women in many normal social settings was inappropriate, creepy, or something to avoid altogether. Now the advice has shifted to, "Get off the apps and meet women in real life," as if men weren't discouraged f…	/r/PurplePillDebate	08/07/26 06:08 AM
5	If you don’t go to clubs/bars you can’t say you want to get women/being introverted is a choice No, I'm not refusing to see it as effort. If anything you are refusing to see my points. All I'm saying is it isn't the same kind of effort. Shaving, makeup, hair, gym, and beauty routines absolutely take time and money, but much of that effort is about improving or maximizing options that many women already have. For many men, approaching, initiating, building social circles, and putting themselves out there isn't about maximizing options it's about having any options at all. That's the distinc…	/r/PurplePillDebate	08/07/26 05:41 AM
6	You shouldn't be angry at women I mostly agree. Getting angry at women for responding to incentives doesn't accomplish much. If people have options, they're generally going to make choices they believe are best for themselves. Men would likely do the same if the roles were reversed. I think the more productive approach is understanding those incentives and adapting to them rather than pretending they don't exist. Ironically, some women will criticize men for not understanding female nature, yet when men start recognizing patte…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/07/26 08:43 PM
5	Saying asking for prenup means you dont trust your partner is hypocritical because the entire marriage system is based on lack of trust. The objection to prenups only makes sense if people pretend marriage itself is not already a legal risk-management structure. A marriage license is not just a romantic statement. It creates legal rules around property, inheritance, medical decisions, taxes, debt, custody, and divorce. So it is strange to say a prenup is insulting because it prepares for failure, while treating marriage as sacred even though marriage is also a legal arrangement that prepares for possible outcomes. That is where t…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/07/26 08:30 PM
12	The idea that most men who struggle in the modern sexual marketplace are socially inept is a blue pill caricature I think people often confuse social skill with behaviors they're simply more comfortable talking about. It's much easier to say a man succeeds because he's "confident" or "charismatic" than to acknowledge that some of the behaviors leading to success are much more forward, persistent, and risk-taking than society openly encourages. That doesn't mean social skills don't matter. They obviously do. The problem is that they're often treated as the complete explanation for why some men succeed while …	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/07/26 08:22 PM
2	Men are incompatible with long term partnership I think you're lumping all men together and treating those behaviors as though they're universal, when they're clearly not. Some men absolutely cheat or chase variety, but plenty don't, even when they have opportunities. As for men being attracted to youth and signs of fertility, that's not exactly some hidden revelation. Women also have preferences they select for, whether that's height, confidence, status, ambition, or financial stability. Both sexes have evolved preferences, even if they aren…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/07/26 08:06 PM
8	If you don’t go to clubs/bars you can’t say you want to get women/being introverted is a choice You're still comparing two different kinds of effort. I never argued that many women don't put a lot of effort into their appearance. My point is that a significant amount of that effort is optional, while the social effort men are expected to put in often isn't if they want any dating success at all. The fact that I personally prefer women who groom themselves doesn't change that. Plenty of women wear little to no makeup, don't spend thousands on beauty products, and still date, have relationsh…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/07/26 07:57 PM
7	If you don’t go to clubs/bars you can’t say you want to get women/being introverted is a choice That still doesn't address my point. I never said women don't put effort into their appearance. My point was that for many women, a lot of that effort is optional, while for men the effort I'm talking about often isn't if they want any success at all. A woman can skip makeup, spend less on beauty, or put in minimal effort and still have dating opportunities, especially if she's around her own looks level. She may get fewer options then without, but she'll usually still have options. For many men…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/07/26 07:49 PM
6	There’s nothing wrong with living for love. Yeah, it really shouldn't be looked at as a bad thing, especially given the sex drive men generally have. It makes perfect sense that finding a romantic partner would become one of the biggest motivations in a man's life. That's been a major driving force throughout human history, so acting like it's somehow shallow or unhealthy by default doesn't make much sense. I also think people are much more accepting when someone's life revolves around a career, money, or status than when it revolves arou…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/07/26 07:21 PM
–	Society didn't lie to men about women and dating. Porn did. That comparison usually leaves out a lot of context. When sitcoms pair an average-looking man with a very attractive woman, the man is almost always written as extremely charismatic, funny, socially confident, or financially stable. He's rarely just an average guy with nothing else going for him. The woman also often isn't portrayed as a perfect catch outside of her looks. A good number of these shows give her traits like being controlling, impulsive, quick-tempered, or generally difficult to ge…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/07/26 07:13 PM
7	If you don’t go to clubs/bars you can’t say you want to get women/being introverted is a choice That works for some men, but it isn't much of a choice for others. Not everyone enjoys bars or clubs, and for many men, especially introverts, those environments are naturally much harder to succeed in. Simply saying, "Go to the club," doesn't suddenly remove those disadvantages. You also say it's the easiest way, but that's different from saying it's easy. Plenty of men force themselves into those environments because they feel they have to, not because they enjoy them. For many, it's one of th…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/07/26 06:52 PM
1	If you're a regular, average guy, you don't need to relate on dating apps I agree to an extent, but I still think awareness helps more than you're giving it credit for. Plenty of people know these apps are designed to be addictive and either avoid them altogether or put limits on how they use them because of that knowledge. I also think there's a difference between someone who gets trapped without realizing what's happening and someone who knowingly chooses to keep engaging despite understanding the risks. Addiction can absolutely override rational thinking for some p…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/07/26 06:42 PM
6	Women are not more emotionally intelligent, Men just complain less Yeah, I think that idea gets passed down because men are generally expected to keep their feelings to themselves far more than women are. From a young age, a lot of men are taught to deal with problems quietly, not complain, and just move on. Showing too much emotion or bringing up every little frustration is often looked down on, so many men learn that it's easier to let things slide than to start an argument. That can create a very misleading dynamic in relationships. If one person voices near…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/07/26 03:37 AM
9	"Game" is overrated. Well game is supposed to be a boost, not the end-all be-all that overcomes every disadvantage. Attraction still has to exist to some degree before game can really do its job. That's why you don't usually see low-status or unattractive men consistently pulling women who are way out of their league just because they know the right things to say. At the same time, game absolutely matters because plenty of men ruin opportunities they otherwise would've had through awkwardness, poor social skills, or…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/07/26 03:23 AM
–	Sex is not a thing, like gold or land or peanuts. There is none if it didn’t address the overall point. Then you just said it for the hell of it. You shouldn't be asking, "Who am I?" since you are the one who decided to respond to me. If anything, I should be the one questioning who the hell this is addressing what I said with no point, lol.	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/07/26 02:43 AM
–	Sex is not a thing, like gold or land or peanuts. I just said yeah you could but it is pointless doing so.	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/07/26 02:40 AM
–	Sex is not a thing, like gold or land or peanuts. I don't think that really addresses my overall point. You're focusing on one sentence instead of the main argument. My broader point was that people using economic language to describe dating generally aren't arguing that sex should literally be redistributed. They're using market concepts to explain competition, preferences, and incentives. Pointing out that a handful of people have proposed redistributing sex doesn't really challenge that broader argument it just shows there are exceptions. If…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/07/26 02:24 AM
5	If you're a regular, average guy, you don't need to relate on dating apps Yeah, I understand that for sure. The thing is, by now it should be pretty well known that these apps can be a bad option because of how they're designed. There have been plenty of studies, discussions, and firsthand experiences from all kinds of places, including Reddit, pointing out how addictive and gamified they can become. So while I agree that some people will get pulled in despite their intentions, most people should at least know what they're signing up for. That awareness alone will pro…	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/07/26 05:39 PM
5	if given two options, 99.9% of women would choose the shy guy over a serial killer Well, sometimes even normal women will if he has qualities they find attractive. That's part of what people are pointing out. Attraction doesn't automatically disappear because a man turns out to be abusive, a criminal, or otherwise a bad person. There are definitely cases where women knew about major red flags beforehand and still chose to pursue or stay with those men. I also think society tends to respond differently depending on who's being judged. Outside of red pill circles, women often re…	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/07/26 05:18 PM
7	how interest are you about what men like? I'd say not nearly to the same extent. Men spend a lot of time trying to understand what women want because they usually have to. If they don't, their dating success often suffers. Women generally don't face that same pressure because they don't usually have to be the ones creating opportunities. That's why you see so many men discussing female preferences, attraction, and behavior, while you don't see nearly as many women analyzing men the same way. There's simply less incentive to. I also don'…	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/07/26 05:02 AM
5	How common is it for women to have higher sex drives than men? I'd say it's probably more of a coincidence than evidence that the average woman has a higher sex drive than the average man. There are definitely women with very high sex drives, so it's not surprising that some relationships end up with the woman wanting sex more often. Of course if its a women who is already a mans girlfriend that can changes things. Since not only attraction but being in a relationship can make a big difference. A woman who's highly attracted to her partner may want sex far …	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/07/26 04:33 AM
12	Men are not a monolith, but women are (according to the Greater Male Variability Hypothesis). 🔵BP constantly conflates the experiences and capabilities of High value vs. Low value men Yeah, some men will do that, but overall women still have it easier. Even women who aren't beautiful generally have an easier time than most men when it comes to getting attention, dates, and relationships. Of course the more attractive a woman is, the easier she'll have it that should be common sense. There will always be men who think badly of less attractive women or treat them poorly. Hell, some men will even do that to attractive women they view a certain way. So the comparison shouldn't be…	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/07/26 04:13 AM
4	Sex is not a thing, like gold or land or peanuts. I don't think that really addresses my point. Whether women mature faster or whether some men are immature doesn't change the legal and financial risks men face in marriage. A man can be completely mature and still lose a significant amount in a divorce if he isn't careful. You're also making a lot of absolute claims like "women know who they are by 20" and "men are either there or they're not." Reality is far more mixed than that. Plenty of women continue to change throughout their 20s and 30s …	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/07/26 03:55 AM
4	People aren’t afraid of commitment in 2026, they’re afraid of bad commitment I don't think that really addresses my point. Whether women mature faster or whether some men are immature doesn't change the legal and financial risks men face in marriage. A man can be completely mature and still lose a significant amount in a divorce if he isn't careful. You're also making a lot of absolute claims like "women know who they are by 20" and "men are either there or they're not." Reality is far more mixed than that. Plenty of women continue to change throughout their 20s and 30s …	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/07/26 03:27 AM
16	Sex is not a thing, like gold or land or peanuts. I think the analogy falls apart because people aren't applying economics to sex itself they're applying it to the dating market. No one is claiming sex is literally a commodity like gold. The point is that dating involves supply, demand, competition, preferences, incentives, and bargaining, which are all concepts that exist whether the end result is an activity or a physical good. Your ping-pong example also leaves out that access to partners is limited. If one small group of people receives a d…	/r/PurplePillDebate	05/07/26 04:09 PM
5	Going Out Alone as a Guy in a New City Is Brutal I mean, if a man is a loner and can already get a decent selection of women online, there isn't much reason to force himself into the city where dating is going to be a lot harder. At least not nowadays especially, even if it is more fun in person.	/r/PurplePillDebate	05/07/26 03:59 PM
–	Life as a woman in west is so much easier That isn't true. Men not going to the doctor enough is a real issue, but reducing men's health problems to "purely their own doing" is way too simplistic. Social expectations, stigma around weakness, work pressure, lack of support, and the way men are raised to push through problems all play a role. If those same kinds of pressures affected women, people wouldn't be so quick to dismiss them as personal failure. Men also do face serious risks. They have shorter life expectancy, higher suicide rat…	/r/PurplePillDebate	05/07/26 03:16 PM
–	Life as a woman in west is so much easier Sure, there are things men don't fully understand about women's experiences, just like there are things women don't fully understand about men's. Medical issues specific to women and menstruation are real, but that doesn't mean men don't face major health disadvantages of their own. Men have shorter life expectancy on average and die by suicide at much higher rates, so it's not accurate to frame health-related hardship as something that primarily affects women. The same applies to dating. Women …	/r/PurplePillDebate	05/07/26 09:06 AM
11	Going Out Alone as a Guy in a New City Is Brutal I think part of the answer is that the dating market has become much more competitive for men. When women have easier access to attention through dating apps and social media, men end up competing harder for a relatively smaller pool of opportunities. That naturally makes other men more guarded because every new guy can be seen as another competitor rather than a potential friend. The same applies to social circles. Established groups have already built trust and social dynamics over years, so t…	/r/PurplePillDebate	05/07/26 06:05 AM
4	Debate: women are allowed to distrust men, men are not allowed to distrust women (repost as I dodn't partipate within three hours) I think that’s a much healthier way to handle it, honestly. Couples with similar incomes and shared financial expectations probably avoid a lot of conflict. My point was never that every woman thinks, "His money is our money, and my money is my money." It’s that the mindset exists on a pretty wide scale, and a surprising number of people treat it as normal or at least don’t push back against it. Especially since a lot of men are struggling in dating right now, some end up having to use their abi…	/r/PurplePillDebate	05/07/26 05:12 AM
2	Debate: women are allowed to distrust men, men are not allowed to distrust women (repost as I dodn't partipate within three hours) I’m sure I’ve heard plenty of women say, “His money is our money, and my money is my money.” That’s often treated as a perfectly normal way of doing things. It’s crazy to me, even if it isn’t always said outright like that. To me, it sounds ridiculous, but some people will just let things play out that way anyway.	/r/PurplePillDebate	05/07/26 04:26 AM
3	Debate: women are allowed to distrust men, men are not allowed to distrust women (repost as I dodn't partipate within three hours) Yeah, it can still be a big L for men in most cases since men generally spend thousands more than women do in relationships. So even the items he’s told to split are often things he largely paid for in the first place. That’s why, even if alimony isn’t a factor, divorce can still be a major financial loss for many men. https://www.facebook.com/SushantArmy/posts/research-suggests-men-typically-spend-far-more-in-relationships-than-women-influ/1320999872997514/	/r/PurplePillDebate	05/07/26 04:06 AM
1	Passport Brooing is nothing different then cheaper Escort Spamming. Yeah being easier on the eyes especially pleasurable can definitely make a difference in how some feel about you.	/r/PurplePillDebate	05/07/26 03:51 AM
–	Life as a woman in west is so much easier Yeah, it is, no doubt about it. Some women just won’t understand how much harder it is for men, especially when it comes to dating. It’s not even close.	/r/PurplePillDebate	05/07/26 03:48 AM
3	Debate: women are allowed to distrust men, men are not allowed to distrust women (repost as I dodn't partipate within three hours) Yes and this reinforces why financial success is valued so much in men. If a financially successful man benefits the relationship while it's intact and can also provide more security afterward, then it's understandable why many women place significant importance on that trait. That doesn't really contradict the point it supports it.	/r/PurplePillDebate	05/07/26 03:46 AM
–	Life as a woman in west is so much easier That doesnt happen nearly as often for men. What I said happens for women is in general.	/r/PurplePillDebate	05/07/26 03:39 AM
0	Life as a woman in west is so much easier Nah, it’s true in general nowadays. Those days you’re speaking of were in the past, for sure. I’d agree with that. Of course, it isn’t perfect, but society definitely praises women plenty even without accomplishing things, so this definitely exists. Of course, not everyone will be part of that praise, which should be understandable. BTW, plenty of men are not only ignored by women but also talked over and disrespected. Men just aren’t really allowed to complain about it and have it be taken seri…	/r/PurplePillDebate	04/07/26 07:24 PM
3	Honestly, to what degree do you want double standards? I think a lot of women genuinely want equal respect and equal opportunities, but not necessarily identical treatment in every context. In dating especially, many still prefer traditional expectations when those expectations benefit them. They want a man who leads, protects, provides, stays emotionally steady, and gives them grace for certain behaviors, while also expecting to be treated as an equal in areas where traditional roles don't benefit them. That's why this feels contradictory to many m…	/r/PurplePillDebate	04/07/26 07:14 PM
0	Life as a woman in west is so much easier Nah, they’re just choosing the wrong type of men to date, is all. That can always happen, but at least they aren’t having to put in a lot of work just to make something happen.	/r/PurplePillDebate	04/07/26 06:40 PM
7	Debate: women are allowed to distrust men, men are not allowed to distrust women (repost as I dodn't partipate within three hours) I think your broader point is that people often assume the worst motives from men while giving women the benefit of the doubt, and I think there's truth to that. If a man says he values a 50/50 custody state, people immediately jump to, "So you're planning to divorce and take the kids." Yet if a woman says she prefers to marry a financially successful man, most people don't immediately accuse her of planning to divorce for alimony or child support. In both cases, someone is expressing a preferen…	/r/PurplePillDebate	04/07/26 05:49 PM
4	Life as a woman in west is so much easier I think another thing people overlook is that the benefits of success are different for men and women today. A successful man is generally expected to have earned everything himself, and once he reaches the top, people often look for reasons to cut him down. A successful woman, on the other hand, is frequently celebrated simply for reaching that position. Companies openly talk about wanting more women in leadership, media highlights successful women as role models, and society is generally much …	/r/PurplePillDebate	04/07/26 05:47 PM
1	Life as a woman in west is so much easier That isn't really my point. My point is that women don't have to climb to the very top before society starts giving them praise and support. Women are often encouraged, celebrated, and given the benefit of the doubt simply for succeeding at levels that wouldn't draw much attention if a man did the same thing. If they do climb to the top, that recognition usually increases even more. Using Angelina Jolie doesn't really address that. A successful woman can still be the victim of domestic violence,…	/r/PurplePillDebate	04/07/26 05:41 PM
5	Life as a woman in west is so much easier I don't believe that's true today. A woman who becomes successful is generally celebrated for it, even if she isn't in a traditionally powerful position. Society is often eager to praise women for breaking barriers, succeeding in male-dominated fields, or reaching high-status positions. Of course there will always be people who resent successful women, but that happens to successful men too. I think one difference is that successful women today often receive recognition and encouragement on top …	/r/PurplePillDebate	04/07/26 05:30 PM
12	Life as a woman in west is so much easier Yeah, but most won’t be, so on average, out of the two, living as a woman is generally a much easier life, at least currently. Not so much years ago, but it’s definitely the case now.	/r/PurplePillDebate	04/07/26 05:26 PM
–	Men should be glad that they’re less desirable than women. That doesn't change my point it reinforces it. If men have historically been expected to pursue while women have generally been in the position to choose, then it's strange to act like those roles are equal or that men are somehow the ones with the preferable position in dating. The fact that they've existed for so long doesn't make them irrelevant.	/r/PurplePillDebate	04/07/26 05:22 PM
3	Passport Brooing is nothing different then cheaper Escort Spamming. Not automatically, but if someone is with you primarily because they find you physically attractive, there's a stronger chance their attraction is genuine than if they're with you primarily because of your money. Physical attraction is directed at you as a person, whereas money is an external resource that can benefit whoever has access to it. Neither looks nor money guarantees someone will care about you. Attractive people can still be used, and wealthy people can still be genuinely loved. The …	/r/PurplePillDebate	04/07/26 06:05 AM
–	Panama criminalizing paternity fraud is a model for every country to follow Well yeah, but most people don't want to practice abstinence forever. We'd rather have protections against being scammed or wronged, just like women expect protections against risks they face in dating and relationships.	/r/PurplePillDebate	04/07/26 06:00 AM
6	Passport Brooing is nothing different then cheaper Escort Spamming. Yeah, I’d assume being physically attractive is always better for both sides. Of course, money is great, but it always leaves you wondering if he cares about you at all, and if she would want to be anywhere near you if you didn’t have it. What is your take on that? Do you believe looks are better both ways?	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 11:14 PM
7	Many young men are viewed as blobs Yeah, guys who already have game, a lot of confidence, and likely the looks will have it easier while they're younger, which is what women generally put all their focus on. Either that or athletes. Other than that, it will be quite hard for sure, potential or not.	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 10:59 PM
–	Women dislike weak and shy guys more than violent misogynists and I'll die on that hill Women can easily get either, especially if they date their looks match. Also, it’s not being used for two people to have consensual sex.	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 10:40 PM
–	Even if the Red Pill doesn't understand philosophy or the history of gender essentialism, it doesn't change the fact that its worldview is fundamentally conservative. You're still blurring the line between explaining patterns and wanting to control outcomes. A worldview is not automatically wrong just because it includes beliefs about men, women, attraction, and relationships. Everyone has a worldview about dating. Feminism has one too. Blue pill advice has one too. The question is whether the claims are accurate, not whether they exist inside a worldview. You also keep treating male standards as uniquely suspicious. If women judge men by height, income, ambi…	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 10:26 PM
3	Passport Brooing is nothing different then cheaper Escort Spamming. Doesn’t need to be looked at that way just because they can’t have it as easy as women. They’re doing what they can to succeed, so that’s not a bad thing if they actually had to put in the work to achieve it, like most men do.	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 09:32 PM
–	Even if the Red Pill doesn't understand philosophy or the history of gender essentialism, it doesn't change the fact that its worldview is fundamentally conservative. You're treating the red pill as if it's one rigid ideology with a single political destination, when in reality it's a collection of ideas about dating that people interpret differently. There are conservatives who agree with parts of it, libertarians who agree with parts of it, politically disengaged men who agree with parts of it, and even liberals who agree with parts of it. Finding overlap with conservatism doesn't make the two synonymous. You're also conflating descriptive claims with presc…	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 09:20 PM
7	Passport Brooing is nothing different then cheaper Escort Spamming. Yeah, both can be, but it would feel much better being desired for your physical looks over your resources, especially if the man actually has to spend those resources on the woman.	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 09:07 PM
10	Passport Brooing is nothing different then cheaper Escort Spamming. Yeah, it sucks, but men have to deal with that even in their home country if they aren’t desirable enough looks-wise.	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 08:58 PM
3	Older men don't understand how undesirable they are to younger women Some women believe older men, especially unattractive ones, even talking to them to begin with is bizarre.	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 08:44 PM
6	I feel like many women complain about not being able to find a “good guy” or steady man but are having sex way too early on. I think it's less about making him "fall harder" by delaying sex and more about filtering for intent. A man who's only interested in something casual is much less likely to stick around if he has to invest time, effort, and consistency before sex. A man genuinely looking for a relationship is generally more willing to make that investment. Your friend's standards also play a role. If she's consistently chasing men who have a lot of options, she shouldn't be surprised if many of them are less int…	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 08:25 PM
3	If you're a regular, average guy, you don't need to relate on dating apps I actually agree that's the biggest downside. The probability isn't really the issue it's the psychological toll if someone starts tying their self-worth to the results. That's why I think they work best as a background option rather than something you check constantly or depend on. If they're just another avenue while you're living your life, improving yourself, and meeting people elsewhere, they have potential upside without carrying nearly as much emotional weight.	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 08:16 PM
9	Men aren't lonely and single because they're toxic, violent and sexist; they're lonely and single because they're unattractive, broke and awkward No, the ugly, antisocial women will have to breed with ugly men as well, regardless of them having a job, since that isn’t going to matter to the more attractive men anyway. So no, they can’t breed ugly men out since ugly women will be having kids as well, and part of that unattractiveness also comes from the mother, so don’t forget that. Anyway, like you said earlier, everyone gets with their looks match. Also I guess you accidentally chose RP because your takes are definitely very blue.	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 08:12 PM
7	Men aren't lonely and single because they're toxic, violent and sexist; they're lonely and single because they're unattractive, broke and awkward Yeah, they don’t, but I’m not speaking about that part. I’m talking about the ugly, antisocial ones, who will likely have to settle just like their grandmothers did. That was my point. Either that, or cats will be on their horizon.	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 08:05 PM
4	Men aren't lonely and single because they're toxic, violent and sexist; they're lonely and single because they're unattractive, broke and awkward Well, you did say women didn’t have to, when plenty exist who would if they want someone for something serious and have to deal with the issues you named.	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 08:00 PM
7	Men aren't lonely and single because they're toxic, violent and sexist; they're lonely and single because they're unattractive, broke and awkward Yeah, some women are, but there are still plenty of ugly and antisocial women who can’t get those types of men for anything serious, so it would make sense for at least them to date within their league.	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 07:54 PM
3	Men aren't lonely and single because they're toxic, violent and sexist; they're lonely and single because they're unattractive, broke and awkward Yeah, some defintely frame it that way, especially now that "misogynist" has become one of the most common labels used against men. It's often treated as the default explanation for why a man struggles with dating, even though that doesn't really explain what we see in practice. There have always been men with toxic, selfish, or misogynistic attitudes who still found relationships because they possessed traits many women found attractive. Being a bad person has never automatically meant a man wo…	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 07:46 PM
1	CMV: Many men are genuinely intimidated by successful women because it disrupts traditional relationship dynamics. Yeah, men will tolerate it for sure, especially desperate ones, but it’s not typically our preference. Which shouldn’t be seen as a problem, especially since men generally don’t have nearly the number of preferences that women have, many of which are much harder or even impossible to meet. Not being masculine is not much to ask for.	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 07:35 PM
–	Women dislike weak and shy guys more than violent misogynists and I'll die on that hill Yeah, the uncomfortable point is that being dangerous or morally bad does not automatically make a man unattractive. Plenty of awful men still have girlfriends, wives, and women defending them because attraction is not the same thing as moral judgment. A lot of women are far more turned off by weakness, passivity, insecurity, and shyness than they are by aggression or dominance, even when that aggression comes with obvious red flags. That does not mean women consciously want bad men. It means as…	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 07:30 PM
2	The superpower most men would choose—after eternal youth and unlimited wealth—is the ability to sleep with any woman they’re attracted to just by snapping their fingers. Yeah, as long as it’s just one ability, then that’s fair. Whether it’s telekinesis, time travel, or any other single ability, there’s nothing wrong with choosing that. Once you start making it where you’re basically Superman, or anywhere close to his power level, then yeah, of course it’s more understandable why someone would choose that instead.	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 07:22 PM
–	Women dislike weak and shy guys more than violent misogynists and I'll die on that hill Even still it’s worse for women to do this since they typically have much easier access to normal men, while guys might just be desperate for anything. So, of course, it’s horrible either way, but it’s way more understandable from men’s position.	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 07:14 PM
2	The superpower most men would choose—after eternal youth and unlimited wealth—is the ability to sleep with any woman they’re attracted to just by snapping their fingers. I mean, yours are technically one power, but they come with several great abilities, which is still cheating in a way, lol. One great ability is supposed to be what’s being compared, so only one should be chosen, even if that power grants more with it. If mine granted more, it would be way better as well, like being able to snap my fingers and have billions more in my pocket, or snap them and become the smartest person to ever live, which would go right along with snapping my fingers and getting…	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 07:11 PM
2	The superpower most men would choose—after eternal youth and unlimited wealth—is the ability to sleep with any woman they’re attracted to just by snapping their fingers. Oh, okay. I suppose that one is, but you would still end up being a major target, so it would have to be kept hidden for sure. Remember, a person with that power is still killable. Anyway, I suppose it could be pretty good for super easy traveling, at least in my case. The other crazy things you could do with it, I’d never do anyway. So the other benefits are okay, but they’re not important enough for me. So I’d still take the women one since sex is much better, in my opinion. Having super easy …	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 06:59 PM
2	The superpower most men would choose—after eternal youth and unlimited wealth—is the ability to sleep with any woman they’re attracted to just by snapping their fingers. Oh, you’re talking about becoming Superman or Homelander, lol. Anyway, I thought it was about having one power since we were comparing it to just having the snap-your-fingers-and-get-a-girl power. Of course, if you have a combination of different powers, then it’s a completely different ball game.	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 06:48 PM
5	Older men don't understand how undesirable they are to younger women Well, you didn’t put that in there. You basically explained how you were creeped out by older men pursuing you, which can be annoying for some women. Most men, though, have to take their shot, which some women have a hard time understanding.	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 06:43 PM
2	The red pill philosophy loses to a vibrator because a vibrator wont try to take your rights away. This puts far too much weight on politics and not enough on the broader dating market. Women across the political spectrum are becoming more selective, including many who don't share these views at all. That suggests something bigger than conservative politics is going on. It also doesn't really address the red pill. The red pill doesn't claim women ignore safety. It argues that attraction is influenced by multiple factors, and safety is just one of them. Reducing modern dating trends to "women …	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 06:40 AM
1	The superpower most men would choose—after eternal youth and unlimited wealth—is the ability to sleep with any woman they’re attracted to just by snapping their fingers. At least with the woman-related power you can live a relatively normal life. You can move around without drawing attention because nobody knows you're using a superpower. You could simply snap your fingers and attract the women you want without anyone realizing what happened. The other powers are completely different. Flying, teleporting, or using telekinesis can't realistically stay hidden forever. Once people know they exist, your entire life changes. Unlimited wealth and powerful connections …	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 06:31 AM
1	The superpower most men would choose—after eternal youth and unlimited wealth—is the ability to sleep with any woman they’re attracted to just by snapping their fingers. Nah, powers like flying, teleportation, time travel, telekinesis, or immortality sound good on paper, but they'd probably just make you a target. In the real world, someone with abilities like that wouldn't get to peacefully enjoy them. Governments, militaries, corporations, and random opportunists would all want access to that power. So unless the power comes with a way to stay hidden or defend yourself from the entire world, the downside is massive. You'd constantly be watched, hunted, detaine…	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 05:15 AM
13	CMV: Many men are genuinely intimidated by successful women because it disrupts traditional relationship dynamics. I don't think insecurity is the only or even the main explanation. Some men simply aren't attracted to certain personality traits that can come with highly competitive or career-driven lifestyles. As women become more successful, some also become more dominant, assertive, or masculine in their behavior. So it's also not that unreasonable for some men to find those traits less attractive. People act as if men's preferences are automatically insecurity while women's preferences are just preference…	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 05:05 AM
5	Older men don't understand how undesirable they are to younger women Maybe not, but men have to worry about that regardless of age, so they might as well go for what they like most if possible.	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 04:58 AM
10	Older men don't understand how undesirable they are to younger women Well, that’s how dating works. Men have to pursue in order to have options. Some men get lucky doing that, especially if they play the numbers, so this isn’t all that crazy, especially since men are expected to initiate.	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 04:54 AM
3	Men are told to open up more. The only thing they open up about is women not fucking them. And then wonder why it's backfiring 🤦‍♂️ That assumes men only bring it up because they think women owe them sex, when for many men it's actually about rejection, loneliness, feeling unwanted, and struggling to build relationships. Reducing all of that to "crying because you don't have access to sex" ignores why the issue matters to them in the first place. For many men, this isn't just one problem among dozens. It's one of the biggest areas of their lives because men generally have a much stronger sex drive and place a high value on r…	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 04:47 AM
3	Men should be glad that they’re less desirable than women. No one has to literally tell men to beg. The saying was your analogy, not mine. My point was that if men are generally expected to pursue while women are generally in the position to choose, then it reinforces exactly what I was saying about the different dating roles.	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 04:17 AM
1	Men should be glad that they’re less desirable than women. This is exactly what I mean. You keep circling this argument around just dating, but you don't expand it beyond that. Because dating is the role I was talking about. If the claim is that women think men's overall position is better, then looking at one of the biggest areas where men and women have different roles is directly relevant. You can't dismiss that difference just because there are other areas to discuss. It does when men, as a collective, rarely ever get sexually harassed and heckled o…	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 04:14 AM
–	how do redpillers explain what you see outside in the dating world vs. what they say ? That's a pretty silly rewrite of what a lot of men were actually told growing up. "Be yourself," "just be nice," "just be confident," "the right woman will come along," and "women care more about personality than looks" have been mainstream dating advice for years. Pretending nobody ever presented that as practical dating advice just makes it sound like you're rewriting history because it's inconvenient. The whole reason the red pill resonated with so many men is because that advice consistently…	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 04:11 AM
–	how do redpillers explain what you see outside in the dating world vs. what they say ? I mean, that’s part of why, but it definitely sucks because even regular women on their level or lower can be harder to get.	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 04:09 AM
–	how do redpillers explain what you see outside in the dating world vs. what they say ? You completely missed what was said,lol.	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 04:05 AM
5	Older men don't understand how undesirable they are to younger women Yeah, that can absolutely happen, but I don't think it's something unique to age-gap relationships. A man can date a woman his own age and still end up with someone who isn't genuinely attracted to him, is mainly there for stability, or is simply settling because she couldn't get the man she ideally wanted. The risk of being used or ending up in a one-sided relationship doesn't suddenly disappear just because the couple is the same age. That's why I don't think age is the deciding factor here. T…	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/07/26 04:01 AM
–	Men can become angry because they cannot get laid, and that anger can make them less likely to get laid. Yeah, it's a bad situation that overwhelmingly falls on men because they're the ones far more likely to experience repeated romantic rejection. Most women never have to worry about years of little to no interest from the opposite sex, so they're much less likely to end up in that downward spiral. That's one reason it's easier to dismiss than to understand if you've never been in that position yourself.	/r/PurplePillDebate	02/07/26 06:44 PM
1	Men and women fail to take accountability fairly equally You can disagree all you want, but just calling it engagement bait, grifting, or obsession doesn't make those expectations disappear. That doesn't really address the point.	/r/PurplePillDebate	02/07/26 06:40 PM
5	Men should be glad that they’re less desirable than women. Exactly. That reinforces my point. Most women still prefer being the choosers rather than the ones who have to do the begging.	/r/PurplePillDebate	02/07/26 06:38 PM
3	Men should be glad that they’re less desirable than women. You're the one changing the subject. The discussion was about whether women are secretly jealous of men's position. My point was that if they truly thought men's overall position was better, you'd expect far more women to voluntarily take on the dating role men have. That's directly relevant because dating is one of the biggest areas where the sexes occupy different roles. Bringing up harassment doesn't make that point disappear. Men and women each have advantages and disadvantages. Acknowledgin…	/r/PurplePillDebate	02/07/26 06:31 PM
5	how do redpillers explain what you see outside in the dating world vs. what they say ? Yeah, I know it can suck for most men because, unlike high-level men who mess with women that aren’t supermodels, most women like that aren’t dipping down for anything, whether long-term or short-term, with just regular dudes. So those experiences likely don’t happen very much at all.	/r/PurplePillDebate	02/07/26 03:01 AM
1	Men and women fail to take accountability fairly equally People are free to behave however they want. That doesn't mean social expectations stop influencing outcomes. A man can ignore expectations around initiating, confidence, emotional expression, or providing if he wants. The question is whether doing so changes how he's perceived and the results he gets. Social patterns matter because they create incentives, not because they're laws. If those patterns didn't matter, there wouldn't be recurring discussions about men needing to approach, be confiden…	/r/PurplePillDebate	02/07/26 02:41 AM
6	how do redpillers explain what you see outside in the dating world vs. what they say ? You're assuming that refining a claim is the same thing as backpedaling. It isn't. There's a difference between saying "women generally prefer higher-status men" and saying "every woman only wants a billionaire." One is a tendency, the other is an absolute. Rejecting the absolute doesn't mean the underlying argument disappears. The reason the red pill stands out isn't because every individual observation is revolutionary. It's because it rejects a lot of the mainstream explanations for why men s…	/r/PurplePillDebate	02/07/26 02:35 AM
34	how do redpillers explain what you see outside in the dating world vs. what they say ? I think the question starts from a misunderstanding of what the red pill is actually claiming. The red pill doesn't claim that women only date 6-foot, wealthy, model-looking men or that every woman ends up with her ideal partner. The claim is that women generally have preferences that lean toward certain traits more than men do, and then reality determines what options are actually available. That's why pointing to average couples doesn't really address the argument. Most people don't end up wit…	/r/PurplePillDebate	01/07/26 07:11 PM
1	Men and women fail to take accountability fairly equally You're using your own experience to dismiss a broader social pattern. The fact that you personally didn't feel much pressure doesn't mean those expectations don't exist or influence other people. My point isn't that every man hears "man up" every day. It's that men and women are often judged differently for the same behaviors. Men are generally expected to be more emotionally stoic, initiate in dating, be providers, and take responsibility for outcomes in ways women often aren't. Those expectati…	/r/PurplePillDebate	01/07/26 07:04 PM
3	If you were born male, do you think you'd be doing better than other men in areas that you criticize men for? Women probably won't. I think a lot of women underestimate how competitive dating is for the average man because they've never had to experience that side of it firsthand. It's much easier to believe you'd do better when you've never had to be the one expected to initiate, face repeated rejection, compete with other men for attention, and prove your value before you're even considered. Simply being aware of those challenges doesn't mean you'd overcome them. If the average woman woke up tomorrow …	/r/PurplePillDebate	01/07/26 06:57 PM
1	Women will never be stuck alone. The biggest difference is that women usually have a built-in recovery mechanism that men generally don't. Relationships themselves can function as a safety net. A woman can make serious mistakes, have financial problems, become a single mother, or struggle to get her life together, and there will often still be men willing to step in because many men value companionship enough to overlook those issues. Those men may not be ideal, but they exist in large numbers. A man in the same position rarely…	/r/PurplePillDebate	01/07/26 07:25 AM
1	Dating market is almost completely analagous to the Job market I think this is a pretty accurate analogy, especially when it comes to the red pill. The biggest mistake people make is confusing the skills that help you keep a relationship with the skills that get you one in the first place. Blue pill advice is often the equivalent of telling someone how to be a great employee after they're already hired. Things like being kind, respectful, honest, and a good communicator matter, but they don't necessarily get you through the door. The red pill is focused on …	/r/PurplePillDebate	01/07/26 06:25 AM
2	Women won't tolerate a male version of AWDTSG Of course they would. A male version of AWDTSG would almost certainly be condemned by many of the same people who defend the current one. That's exactly why people argue there's a double standard. Look at the backlash against websites that indexed adult content, discussions about women's body counts, exposing past sex work, or men publicly rating women based on relationship or sexual experiences. Those were widely condemned because they could damage reputations, invade privacy, and spread false …	/r/PurplePillDebate	01/07/26 05:57 AM
2	Do you think you have a positiv impact on men here? No, I don't think so. If a man is already on his way to the red pill and comes here, only to be immediately called a failure, sexist, misogynist, woman hater, or mentally ill, you're probably having the opposite effect. Many of those men already believe people won't try to understand where they're coming from, and responses like that only reinforce it. It gets worse when they're automatically treated like lowlifes simply because they struggle with women, or when research they cite is dismissed w…	/r/PurplePillDebate	01/07/26 05:45 AM
–	I don’t want to give him “that satisfaction” is one of the most overlooked power dynamics in dating. Yeah, they generally have the role that makes dating easier, so there's very little incentive to give it up. If you're already in the position where you're more often being approached than doing the approaching, switching roles means voluntarily taking on more rejection, more uncertainty, and more emotional risk than you had before. That's why I think this goes beyond simple shyness. If women genuinely believed the male role in dating was the better position overall, you'd expect many more of th…	/r/PurplePillDebate	01/07/26 01:33 AM
3	Men should be glad that they’re less desirable than women. That narrows OP’s claim too much. OP wasn’t only talking about looks in isolation. The whole post was comparing women’s desirability and attention to men’s ability to move through life unnoticed. If the claim is that women are jealous of men’s overall position, then it’s fair to ask why women don’t generally take on more of men’s dating role when they have the freedom to do so. Women approaching more wouldn’t stop men from being visual, but it would show they actually prefer men’s side of the da…	/r/PurplePillDebate	01/07/26 12:34 AM
4	Passport broing should unironically be illegal Nothing about this is automatically exploitation. Two adults choosing to date or marry each other is not exploitation just because one of them comes from a richer country. If there is coercion, lying, abuse, or fraud, criticize that. The passport part alone does not prove any of that happened. This also ignores that women abroad have agency. They can prefer foreign men for their own reasons, including stability, lifestyle, personality, marriage goals, or simply not liking the local dating market…	/r/PurplePillDebate	01/07/26 12:28 AM
4	Men and women fail to take accountability fairly equally You're replacing a broader claim with your own personal experience. One person's life doesn't tell us much about the general expectations society places on men and women. Calling it "regurgitating stereotypes" isn't an argument either. If you think the patterns are wrong, explain why they're inaccurate instead of dismissing them with a label. "Stop giving a fuck about society" also misses the point. The discussion is about how society generally responds to men and women, not whether an individua…	/r/PurplePillDebate	01/07/26 12:21 AM
–	Having low standards doesn't make you charitable, and it's not correlated with the ability ti love deeply The problem is you're separating standards from reality. Knowing what you want is fine, but if your standards are so high that they leave you with virtually no viable partners, they stop being useful. This matters much more for men than women because men generally have a harder time in the dating market. Most men don't have the luxury of holding out indefinitely for an ideal match. They have to be more realistic about what's actually attainable or they may end up with no relationship at all. Hav…	/r/PurplePillDebate	30/06/26 05:46 PM
6	Men should be glad that they’re less desirable than women. It is relevant because the OP's entire argument is that women are secretly jealous of men's position. If that were true, you'd expect far more women to voluntarily take on the role that men have in dating. The fact that most still prefer being pursued despite knowing the downsides suggests they don't actually view men's overall position as preferable. The risks you mention don't change that. Men deal with being used as placeholders, rejected, led on, and settled for too. They also carry the expe…	/r/PurplePillDebate	30/06/26 05:32 PM
7	Men and women fail to take accountability fairly equally This is more than just "people don't take accountability." The difference is that men are generally forced to. Society is much quicker to tell men to own their mistakes, improve themselves, and accept the consequences, while women are more often given explanations that soften or shift responsibility. Take your first example. If a man repeatedly picks toxic women, he's usually told he has poor judgment and needs to choose better. If a woman repeatedly picks toxic men, the conversation is much mor…	/r/PurplePillDebate	30/06/26 05:28 PM
1	Manosphere supporting Age Gap relationships to a fault is strange. You're treating age gaps as though they automatically create a unique risk that doesn't exist elsewhere. Manipulation, abuse, and power imbalances can happen in relationships with the same age, a five-year gap, or a twenty-year gap. Age alone doesn't tell you whether someone is controlling or abusive. The reason many people in the manosphere push back is because they see adults as capable of making their own choices. If both people are consenting adults, they don't think it's reasonable to assum…	/r/PurplePillDebate	30/06/26 05:03 PM
2	Our male ancestors would laugh at the complaints of modern men You're taking a relationship model that depended on a completely different society and assuming it still applies today. It doesn't. Those marriages existed in a world where women had far fewer legal, economic, and social options to leave. Once those constraints disappeared, relationships became voluntary, which means respect alone is no longer enough to sustain them. You're also creating a false choice between love and respect. A healthy modern relationship needs both. Respect without love turns…	/r/PurplePillDebate	30/06/26 04:53 PM
3	Fair feminists exist and they get hate from both men and many feminist women One good example doesn't really address the broader criticism. Every movement has reasonable people in it. The real question is whether they're representative or influential enough to define the movement. If she has to spend a large part of her time pushing back against other feminists for misandry, debunking anti-male narratives, and defending male victims from people within the movement, that arguably says more about the movement than it does about her. She sounds more like an exception than t…	/r/PurplePillDebate	30/06/26 04:41 PM
2	If you are looking for an obedient wife the red pill probably won’t get you there. I never said I judge individuals solely based on societal trends. My point was that broader patterns help explain why trust has become harder to build, not that they determine whether every individual is trustworthy.	/r/PurplePillDebate	30/06/26 04:35 PM
2	If you are looking for an obedient wife the red pill probably won’t get you there. Your personal relationship doesn't really disprove the point because exceptions don't invalidate general principles. You starting out as a feminist doesn't establish that trust alone creates a relationship where one partner willingly follows the other's leadership. Individual anecdotes can't settle a broader claim about what generally produces that dynamic. I also never said grievance culture was one-sided. I explicitly said men have reasons for their distrust too. My point was that telling men …	/r/PurplePillDebate	30/06/26 04:24 PM
2	Society is 'equal' everywhere except the expensive, high-risk part where men have to audition That isn't really the same burden. Maintaining your appearance benefits you regardless of whether you approach anyone. Men also work out, groom themselves, buy clothes, and spend money improving their appearance. Looking attractive isn't a responsibility unique to women. The point being made is about who is expected to create dating opportunities. Men are generally expected to make the first move, risk rejection, start the conversation, ask for the date, carry the interaction, and often pay for …	/r/PurplePillDebate	30/06/26 04:19 PM
7	Men should be glad that they’re less desirable than women. Pursuing someone you're attracted to doesn't change the broader point. One person choosing to approach doesn't mean women generally take on men's role in dating. Most dating still revolves around men initiating while women decide who gets access. Approaching someone also doesn't remove unwanted attention or appearance-based scrutiny, but that wasn't the point. The point is that if women were truly jealous of men's overall position, you'd expect far more women to willingly take on the role of pur…	/r/PurplePillDebate	30/06/26 04:14 PM
5	If you are looking for an obedient wife the red pill probably won’t get you there. Nobody serious is saying a woman should obey a man just because he makes demands. The point is that trust does not appear out of nowhere either. A woman has to already be capable of respecting male leadership before a man’s competence can even matter. If her default reaction to leadership is suspicion, resistance, or “who do you think you are,” then no amount of gradual trust-building is going to create that dynamic. Obedience is not only about trust. It is also about attraction, respect, temper…	/r/PurplePillDebate	30/06/26 01:58 AM
11	Men should be glad that they’re less desirable than women. Nah, if women were actually jealous of men's position, they'd gladly take on men's role of pursuing instead of still preferring the passive role. It's easy to say you're jealous of the attention-free side of dating while continuing to enjoy the advantages that come with being the one who gets approached rather than the one who has to risk rejection over and over. The argument also treats unwanted attention as though it's the only tradeoff that matters while ignoring the benefits that desirabilit…	/r/PurplePillDebate	30/06/26 01:38 AM
7	No woman who is not already thinking about divorce will actually gonna divorce you for getting a paternity test The whole debate around paternity testing gets treated as if simply wanting certainty is inherently immoral, when it really isn't. A woman has biological certainty that the child is hers from the moment of birth. A man doesn't have that same certainty without modern technology. Wanting to equalize that asymmetry with a DNA test is a rational response to a biological reality, not necessarily an accusation of infidelity. People also tend to treat verification and trust as though they're mutually e…	/r/PurplePillDebate	29/06/26 07:00 PM
9	What everyday disadvantages of feminism do you experience? The problem with this question is it treats feminism like it’s the source of basic rights you listed. In most developed countries those things aren’t “feminism benefits,” they’re just law and modern society. Nobody is seriously debating whether women should vote or own property. Where disagreement shows up is in how modern feminism gets applied in interpretation and culture, not the baseline rights. That’s where a lot of pushback comes from. One issue some people point to is how gender narrative…	/r/PurplePillDebate	29/06/26 05:51 PM
13	The mockery of "unselected" men is a proxy victory. Women celebrate their loneliness because they are powerless against the elite men who actually exploit them. The target at low hanging fruit to make themselves feel better. Your argument relies on mixing multiple different systems of behavior and treating them as one coordinated structure, but that assumption breaks down once you separate incentives, scale, and actual decision-making processes. The first issue is the idea of coordinated intent across “women” as a group. That requires a shared mechanism of control or unified strategy, which does not exist in decentralized social behavior. Dating preferences, online commentary, and reactions to men are produced indep…	/r/PurplePillDebate	29/06/26 05:59 AM
4	Women ignore men on purpose "If she wanted to, she would" works at the individual level, not as an explanation for an entire dating market. Some women clearly don't want to be approached, while others do. That alone shows the situation is more complicated than saying all women intentionally made themselves inaccessible. You're also taking behaviors that can have multiple explanations and treating them as proof of one motive. Wearing headphones, avoiding eye contact, or spending time with female friends doesn't automaticall…	/r/PurplePillDebate	29/06/26 04:38 AM
6	Women who don't pay for thier stuff or avoid 50-50 are red flags. If a woman refuses to do what's mentioned, then the best assumption is that she simply isn't into you, and leaving is best for your self-respect. People who genuinely want to be with you usually find ways to invest in the relationship themselves instead of expecting you to carry everything. The biggest point isn't whether every bill is split exactly 50/50. It's whether both people are showing they're invested in each other. Someone who values you will usually want to contribute in some meaningfu…	/r/PurplePillDebate	29/06/26 04:27 AM
–	Wives who don’t have regular sex with their husbands should never have married him Yeah it can suck since men can have things in place and the woman changes it mid marriage. Sexual compatibility can exist when people get married, then change years later, so talking about it beforehand doesn't eliminate that possibility. A couple can genuinely be on the same page when they say "I do." They can have similar sex drives, similar expectations, and both be happy with the relationship at the time. Over the years, though, those expectations can change. One person's interest in sex can…	/r/PurplePillDebate	29/06/26 03:26 AM
5	Real issues get dismissed as hate because people are biased I agree with the overall point. Too many people judge arguments based on who is making them or what motives they assume the other person has instead of whether the argument is actually true. I also think you're right that a valid issue can lose credibility when it's argued from hatred, resentment, or obvious self-interest. Even if the underlying concern is legitimate, people become distracted by the tone or perceived motivation instead of engaging with the actual point. At the same time, motives…	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/06/26 08:38 PM
7	The root of misogyny is jealousy. That’s fine, then we agree it’s a hypothesis. My issue is with how strongly you’re applying it. Saying jealousy can be one motive is different from saying jealousy is the psychological root of misogyny. A person can have negative things to say about women’s behavior, dating patterns, double standards, or social dynamics without hating women as a whole. That’s the part that keeps getting blurred. Criticism of women is not automatically misogyny, and misogyny is not automatically jealousy. You can…	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/06/26 08:18 PM
7	The root of misogyny is jealousy. Explaining your reasoning isn't the same as establishing your conclusion. You gave a series of interpretations about what these men are supposedly thinking or feeling, then concluded the motive is jealousy. That's a hypothesis about their internal motives, not evidence that jealousy is actually driving the behavior. I disagree because your explanations don't rule out other motives like entitlement, hostility, prejudice, resentment, or a desire for control. Simply offering one possible explanatio…	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/06/26 08:03 PM
7	The root of misogyny is jealousy. Then we're back to the original point. Even if I accept your examples as misogyny, you still haven't established that jealousy is the motive behind them. Your entire post isn't just "this behavior is misogynistic." It's "this behavior is misogynistic because men are jealous of women." That's the claim I challenged. Calling something misogyny doesn't automatically prove jealousy is the cause. You still have to support that connection instead of asserting it.	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/06/26 07:55 PM
3	What do you mean by “social skills”? Social skills in dating aren’t a fixed checklist. They’re a combination of observable behaviors and how those behaviors are interpreted in context. Things like listening properly, pacing conversation, reading tone, and handling rejection are concrete skills, but the overall judgment comes from how consistently those show up and how they land in real interaction. They’re not a reliable toolbox where applying a set action guarantees a predictable result. The same behavior can work in one context a…	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/06/26 06:11 PM
3	"Nice guys finish last", AFBB statementes are kind of true for most average guys. That’s not really addressing the point being discussed. Nobody in the argument is saying people shouldn’t improve themselves, or that they should accept low-attraction relationships. The actual claim being discussed is whether “both sexes settle” actually captures the difference in how men and women tend to trade off attraction versus stability when choosing partners. Your reply moves away from that and into advice about self-improvement, grooming, charisma, and avoiding “lifeless marriages.” Th…	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/06/26 05:53 PM
11	The root of misogyny is jealousy. Nobody said “all criticism is misogyny,” and nobody said harassment is just criticism. You’re taking extreme examples and using them to avoid the actual point. Calling women “foids” or street harassment isn’t criticism, it’s abuse. That’s not in dispute and it’s not what the argument was about. The point was that “misogyny” gets stretched so broadly it’s often used to shut down criticism of behavior, dating dynamics, or social patterns without actually engaging whether the criticism is valid or …	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/06/26 05:49 PM
13	The root of misogyny is jealousy. Not at all. At this point, "misogyny" has been used so broadly that it's often treated as a way to dismiss criticism of women rather than address whether the criticism itself has merit. Labeling criticism as misogyny doesn't answer whether the criticism is true or false. Your argument also relies almost entirely on assigning motives. You repeatedly claim men criticize women because they're jealous, but you don't actually establish that. Someone criticizing obesity, modern dating behavior, tradit…	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/06/26 05:15 AM
3	Talking to women is impossible. The debate topic is “Talking to women is impossible”, and OP acknowledges that this is the first step to have multiple interactions to get to know someone prior to dating. He then uses an example of wanting to approach a stranger in a cafe. I think you're reading the title too literally and missing the point of what he's describing. He's clearly talking about the difficulty of meeting women as potential partners, not claiming he's physically incapable of speaking to women. Of course creating rom…	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/06/26 04:41 AM
7	If the woman is successful and makes more money than the man, he can be a stay at home dad while the woman provides In theory, I agree. If the woman is the higher earner, then having the father stay home can absolutely make financial sense. Looking purely at income and childcare costs, it can be the most practical decision for the family. The issue is that I don't think most women would actually be comfortable with that arrangement when it's their own relationship. A lot of women still prefer a partner who earns at least as much as they do or who takes on the primary provider role. That's reflected in many wo…	/r/PurplePillDebate	27/06/26 11:26 PM
6	"Nice guys finish last", AFBB statementes are kind of true for most average guys. I agree both men and women settle to some degree. I just don't think it's equal. Men generally seem more willing to stay with someone they're highly attracted to even if she isn't the most stable choice, while women are more likely to trade some attraction for stability, security, or long-term compatibility. That's why I don't think saying "men do it too" completely answers the concern. The issue isn't whether both sexes settle. It's whether they're settling in the same way. For many men, ending…	/r/PurplePillDebate	27/06/26 11:06 PM
9	"Nice guys finish last", AFBB statementes are kind of true for most average guys. I don't think those ideas and the original point are mutually exclusive. Someone can absolutely improve socially while it still being true that people with established social circles have a much easier time meeting partners. Self-improvement doesn't erase structural advantages. In fact, most of your suggestions are really about increasing opportunities. Seasonal work, traveling, language groups, churches, public speaking, sales, bars, martial arts, and volunteering all have one thing in common: …	/r/PurplePillDebate	27/06/26 10:55 PM
5	Talking to women is impossible. I don't think that's really addressing his point. Talking to strangers in general isn't the same thing as trying to create romantic opportunities. The expectations, risks, and outcomes are completely different. Most men can have normal conversations with women. The difficult part isn't saying hello or making small talk. It's knowing when and how to express romantic interest without coming across as unwanted, awkward, or intrusive. That's a challenge men face far more often because they're genera…	/r/PurplePillDebate	27/06/26 10:47 PM
7	Women detest men who “just want to have sex” yet live exactly like that from age 18 to 32 or so. Yeah, it's always odd when people act like men wanting sex is somehow uniquely bad when men usually have to do a lot of the pursuing just to make it happen. Men are generally expected to initiate, risk rejection, carry the conversation, escalate, and create the opportunity in the first place. None of that happens by itself for most men. That's why I don't see wanting sex as some unique flaw. If both adults are consenting and looking for the same thing, then both of them want sex. The difference …	/r/PurplePillDebate	27/06/26 10:24 PM
13	Question for bluepill: Why do feminists say men have problems expressing their feelings, when men are known for being more direct and blunt then women? I think the confusion is that directness and emotional expression are being treated like the same thing. Men may be more direct in certain situations, especially in dating initiation or stating what they want, but that does not mean they are equally comfortable expressing vulnerability, fear, sadness, insecurity, or emotional dependence.	/r/PurplePillDebate	27/06/26 04:55 PM
3	Talking to women is impossible. Probably not completely fried. I do think you're describing a real problem though. If you don't already have a social circle, meeting women becomes much harder because there are simply fewer opportunities. That's very different from it being impossible. The biggest issue isn't that you can't cold approach or that you're mildly autistic. It's that your opportunities are limited. The fewer women you naturally meet, the more every interaction starts to feel like it has to work, which makes the whol…	/r/PurplePillDebate	27/06/26 04:46 PM
–	Avoidant attachment is often an overcomplicated explanation for unequal romantic interest I think you're taking one explanation and making it cover too much. Low interest explains a lot, but many different personalities exist, so not every behavior comes down to how much someone wants another person. Two people can genuinely be equally interested in someone and still behave very differently. One person may be more expressive, another more reserved. One may communicate constantly, another may need more space. Those differences don't automatically disappear just because the level of in…	/r/PurplePillDebate	27/06/26 06:28 AM
6	It's not "men act, women are", it's "men's skills are recognized, women's are taken for granted". Well, at least you actually owned it. Most people would spend the whole conversation insisting they're completely objective while doing the exact same thing, lol. That said, just because you recognize the bias doesn't mean it's harmless. If you already know your default reaction is to believe gossip about strangers, that's probably one worth pushing back on. Otherwise, you're letting whoever tells the story first shape your opinion before you've heard the other side.	/r/PurplePillDebate	27/06/26 06:20 AM
–	Lavar Balls situation is proof women can't truly love a men Yeah, but he was well known for acting like that for years. She was married to him for around 30 years and stayed with him even after she dealt with being paralyzed from her stroke. Those traits weren't some new discovery. That's why I don't think it's convincing to point to his past comments as the obvious explanation. If those behaviors were the real dealbreaker, she had decades to leave. The timing makes it reasonable to think there were other factors involved instead of assuming it all came …	/r/PurplePillDebate	27/06/26 04:07 AM
4	It's not "men act, women are", it's "men's skills are recognized, women's are taken for granted". Well, it's best to know the full story first. You have to make sure the mother isn't keeping the child away from the father or making his life hell out of spite. Even fathers in those situations often get called trash, especially if the mother is badmouthing them, despite her playing a part in creating the situation. That's why I don't think it's reasonable to automatically assume that if the father isn't living with the mother, he's the problem. There are fathers who abandon their children, and…	/r/PurplePillDebate	27/06/26 03:12 AM
–	Most men here don't just have dating problem, they're severely under-socialized in general. Yeah, it hasn't, which is why men have to work with what they can in the meantime, or even forever. Some people might not like hearing that, but if your ideal isn't realistic, then date or mainly sleep with women who still fit enough of what you're looking for, even if they're two or three points lower overall. If you're still on the way up, keep improving yourself and see where you end up. If not, then you've still made the best of the situation instead of giving up. I also don't think attracti…	/r/PurplePillDebate	27/06/26 03:05 AM
–	A question regarding chores and sexual altruism of men I think you're pointing out a real inconsistency. If domestic labor and sexual satisfaction are major reasons relationships are supposedly a raw deal for women, then those should be major things women screen for while dating. A man who can cook, clean, manage his own life, and cares about mutual satisfaction should be treated as a serious green flag. The problem is that a lot of dating standards still revolve around traditional male roles. Women often still expect men to initiate, plan, pay, lea…	/r/PurplePillDebate	27/06/26 01:01 AM
4	It's not "men act, women are", it's "men's skills are recognized, women's are taken for granted". I think you're changing the argument a bit. My point wasn't that society always recognizes the effort behind those qualities. My point was that women are still rewarded and praised for them. Those aren't the same claim. Women are regularly praised for being good mothers, emotionally supportive, caring, attractive, and nurturing. Those qualities are widely recognized as valuable. So I don't think it's accurate to say society doesn't reward them simply because some people view them as natural. I t…	/r/PurplePillDebate	27/06/26 12:49 AM
–	Most men here don't just have dating problem, they're severely under-socialized in general. Well yeah, a man can make that choice. The difference is that he's basically throwing in the towel. Unlike women, if most men stop putting in effort, nothing is going to happen for them in dating. Unless they suddenly come into a lot of money or something drastically changes, opportunities generally aren't going to appear on their own. That's why I don't think your ROI comparison fully works. If a man still wants a relationship, stopping doesn't just reduce his chances. For most men, it reduces …	/r/PurplePillDebate	27/06/26 12:38 AM
1	It's not "men act, women are", it's "men's skills are recognized, women's are taken for granted". Well yeah, I do believe single mothers get that regardless. That's really all it takes to receive a Happy Father's Day. The father doesn't have to be trash for that to happen, and I've been seeing it for years. Sure, some of those posts could be ragebait, but that doesn't explain all of them. I've seen it happen often enough over the years that I don't think it's just people trying to farm reactions. From what I've seen, it's a genuine sentiment that a lot of people hold.	/r/PurplePillDebate	27/06/26 12:30 AM
10	It's not "men act, women are", it's "men's skills are recognized, women's are taken for granted". I don't think that's accurate. It isn't just a few viral posts. Women are regularly praised for motherhood, caregiving, beauty, emotional intelligence, and other contributions. Those qualities are celebrated across media, advertising, schools, workplaces, and even holidays. That makes it difficult to argue society generally fails to recognize women's efforts. I also don't think your comparison with male-coded skills really holds. A lot of men would argue that their contributions are treated as o…	/r/PurplePillDebate	27/06/26 12:15 AM
18	It's not "men act, women are", it's "men's skills are recognized, women's are taken for granted". I don't think that's true in today's culture. Women receive plenty of praise for things they do, while men are often overlooked for comparable contributions. Your conclusion is that women's efforts generally go unrecognized, but that doesn't logically follow from what we see in many areas of public life. Take Father's Day as one example. It's become common for people to wish mothers a Happy Father's Day or shift attention toward mothers, even though the day is specifically meant to recognize fat…	/r/PurplePillDebate	26/06/26 11:52 PM
6	The sexual revolution and casual sex brought about delusional standards - even for women who are not promiscuous. Yeah, even women who don't engage in casual sex can still be influenced by those dynamics. If men they consider to be out of their league are showing romantic interest, giving compliments, taking them on dates, or making them feel special, it's easy to see how that could affect their expectations. They don't necessarily have to sleep with those men for the experience to leave an impression. That's why I don't think the effect is limited to women who are having casual sex themselves. Temporary at…	/r/PurplePillDebate	26/06/26 11:36 PM
3	If you're a regular, average guy, you don't need to relate on dating apps Yeah, I can understand it if someone has genuinely tried for years without success. That would discourage almost anyone. At the same time, giving up doesn't solve the problem. Men should know by now that some things in life require a lot of work, and dating can be one of them.	/r/PurplePillDebate	26/06/26 06:22 PM
2	“Just be happy single” is easy advice when singledom is optional. I think that's especially true for women. Not every woman has it easy, but for most women, being single generally isn't the same type of challenge that it is for many men. Even when a woman doesn't have the exact partner she wants, she often has more opportunities to date or reenter the dating market than the average man. That changes how advice like "just be happy single" is experienced. If someone believes they can realistically find dates again whenever they decide to, being single is much mo…	/r/PurplePillDebate	26/06/26 06:01 PM
–	Men who have a hard time getting laid, do you read romance novels? Nah, I think that is more of a women’s thing and pretty much always has been. Romance novels, romantasy, and Bridgerton-type content are usually written around female desire, not male desire. It makes sense that women would relate to it more, but I doubt most struggling men are going to learn much from it that actually translates to their reality.	/r/PurplePillDebate	26/06/26 05:41 PM
–	Most men here don't just have dating problem, they're severely under-socialized in general. I agree there's a snowball effect in many areas of life. Missing opportunities early can absolutely make things more difficult later. The part I disagree with is treating that as if there's no point trying once you're behind. The logical conclusion from "it's harder" is that people need more effort, time, or a different approach. It doesn't logically become "it's effectively over." Those are two very different conclusions.	/r/PurplePillDebate	26/06/26 05:30 PM
–	Most men here don't just have dating problem, they're severely under-socialized in general. I don't disagree that adolescence and early adulthood are important. Those experiences absolutely shape people. The part I disagree with is treating them as if they lock someone's future into place. Being rejected or isolated early in life can have lasting effects, but that doesn't mean someone is incapable of developing socially later on. Those are two different claims. "It has a major influence" doesn't logically become "it's pretty much over if you missed out." The second conclusion goes much…	/r/PurplePillDebate	26/06/26 05:26 PM
9	If you're a regular, average guy, you don't need to relate on dating apps I think you're taking a real problem and turning it into an absolute rule. Dating apps are undeniably more difficult for average men, but that doesn't mean average men shouldn't use them. A lower success rate isn't the same thing as no chance. Even if the odds aren't great, it's still another avenue that can lead to meeting someone. The better advice is to stop relying on them as your primary strategy rather than abandoning them altogether. Keep them in the background while putting most of your …	/r/PurplePillDebate	26/06/26 04:06 AM
6	How should a female navigate a situation where the man is smaller than average In general, if it's a genuine dealbreaker, honesty is usually better than ghosting. Everyone has preferences, and sexual compatibility matters to some people. Leading someone on or disappearing tends to create more confusion than simply ending things respectfully.	/r/PurplePillDebate	26/06/26 03:15 AM
11	Most men here don't just have dating problem, they're severely under-socialized in general. I think you're describing genuine challenges, but then taking them further than the evidence supports. It's true that many adults have less free time, established social circles, and fewer opportunities to meet new people. Those factors absolutely make socializing harder than it was during school or college. The leap I don't agree with is saying it's "pretty much over" if you missed those formative years. That's a much stronger claim than the experiences you've described support. Harder doesn't …	/r/PurplePillDebate	26/06/26 02:03 AM
4	Modern Men Are Being Punished for a Past They Didn’t Create Yes, they do. They just might not be in your circle. Men who regularly discuss these issues clearly care enough to form and express opinions about them. Caring doesn't have to mean some deep emotional attachment. It can simply mean thinking an issue is worth discussing, just like people do with politics, sports, or any other topic. You're also treating your personal experience as if it represents all well-socialized men. Saying you've "never seen" successful men advocate for this doesn't establi…	/r/PurplePillDebate	26/06/26 01:58 AM
3	When men say "Men suffer in silence", most of them think that's cool and masculine. I think you're overlooking how long this image of masculinity has been reinforced. For generations, men have been praised for being stoic, carrying burdens alone, and enduring hardship without asking for help. When those messages have been repeated for decades, it's not surprising that some men still view suffering as something tied to masculinity. That doesn't mean it's healthy or that therapy is bad. It means cultural expectations don't change overnight. If someone grows up seeing the "strong …	/r/PurplePillDebate	26/06/26 01:36 AM
4	Modern Men Are Being Punished for a Past They Didn’t Create Nah, that isn't really true. Some successful or socially adjusted men absolutely do care about struggling men. Some don't, obviously, but that is true in almost every group. You can find successful women who don't care at all about unsuccessful women too. The problem is you're treating that as if it's uniquely male. Plenty of people distance themselves from those who are awkward, unsuccessful, low status, or socially struggling. That happens across the board. It isn't some special thing only men…	/r/PurplePillDebate	26/06/26 01:25 AM
–	No AI generated posts Yeah, the quality that ChatGPT and Claude put out is more than good enough for posts. Ones that sound like bots, like some of the other ones, I can kind of understand, but not the top-of-the-line models.	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/06/26 11:30 PM
1	The manosphere thrives because society has failed to provide an alternative. Yeah, but it kind of sucks that it took something like COVID for that advantage to really matter. We don't get disruptions on that scale very often, so it's not exactly something people can rely on. During that period, it was probably for the best that dating slowed down anyway given everything that was going on. Once things returned to normal, the usual dating dynamics came back too, so any advantage from that environment was always likely to be very temporary.	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/06/26 11:27 PM
7	Most men here don't just have dating problem, they're severely under-socialized in general. Sometimes, but I think you're painting with too broad a brush. There are definitely men who are under-socialized and approach dating like it's a formula to solve. That group exists, and it can create obvious problems. The flaw is assuming that everyone who struggles falls into that category. Plenty of men understand social dynamics just fine. They know how conversations work, they understand flirting, and they recognize social cues. Their problem isn't a lack of understanding it's that they're a…	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/06/26 05:41 PM
1	Do you view being penetrated as submissive, degrading or bad? Oh, okay. That surprised me. Usually, when people on here come at me like that, there is no apology, lol.	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/06/26 05:29 PM
3	Modern Men Are Being Punished for a Past They Didn’t Create You're conflating pattern recognition with collective judgment. Those aren't the same thing. Recognizing that certain risks exist is perfectly reasonable. Treating every individual as though they're personally responsible for those risks is a separate claim that doesn't automatically follow. Nobody is arguing that women should have "complete naïveté" or ignore safety. That's a strawman. Taking precautions like meeting in public, telling a friend where you're going, or leaving if someone makes yo…	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/06/26 05:27 PM
–	Being overzealous is bad. I think you're comparing two different stages of dating. Being overly eager is something people notice immediately, so it affects first impressions. Abuse, cheating, or other serious flaws often aren't obvious until after attraction and emotional attachment have already formed. Overzealousness can also signal that someone has very few options or is willing to commit to almost anyone who shows interest. Whether that's true or not, that's often the impression it creates. So it isn't that enthusias…	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/06/26 05:37 AM
4	I think that women highly value confidence and this puts men at a significant dating disadvantage. I know you didn't. I wasn't claiming you did. I was expanding on the discussion by separating two issues: why the preference exists and what effect it has. Your post was about the effect of preferring confidence, so I was explaining why I think that effect occurs. I'm not sure what's so hard to understand. It was posted under the automod to expand on the discussion, not to debate you about why the preference exists.	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/06/26 05:15 AM
4	I think that women highly value confidence and this puts men at a significant dating disadvantage. I never said you implied malicious intent. My point is that if a preference puts a large group of men at a disadvantage, it can contribute to their suffering regardless of why that preference exists.	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/06/26 05:05 AM
8	Is true that men marry the convenient women they CAN have, while spend their lives secretly obsessing over the women they truly desire but can't have? Yeah, some men do if they had someone else in mind that they wanted but couldn’t get. Like I was saying, in most men’s case, that dream woman might’ve been unattainable for anything, unlike most women’s unattainable dream man.	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/06/26 05:01 AM
1	Female entitlement Yeah, this is well known, but I think you're oversimplifying the solution. You're treating pedestalization as the cause when, for many men, it's a symptom of their dating reality. A man who rarely gets attention is naturally going to place more value on women and sex than someone who has plenty of opportunities. That's why simply telling men to "stop simping" isn't enough. If those same men had more dating experience and more options, many would likely stop pedestalizing women without anyone hav…	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/06/26 04:55 AM
2	Do male victims even exist in the eyes of women? Yeah, both sexes do this. If you spend enough time consuming content that constantly paints the other sex in the worst possible light, it's easy to end up stressed or cynical.	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/06/26 04:33 AM
4	Is true that men marry the convenient women they CAN have, while spend their lives secretly obsessing over the women they truly desire but can't have? You compared it the moment you referenced AFBB. You said, "I know you want it, it's the AFBB posts," because you recognized there's an equivalent claim about women. That's the comparison I was responding to.	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/06/26 04:26 AM
3	Is true that men marry the convenient women they CAN have, while spend their lives secretly obsessing over the women they truly desire but can't have? Yeah, both sexes are likely to do this, but you're treating two different situations as though they're the same. That's the flaw in your comparison. Many women at least have a chance to experience the men they desire most, even if they ultimately can't secure commitment. They may not get the relationship they wanted, but they often get the opportunity to see where things go. For many men, that opportunity never exists to begin with. The issue isn't that they couldn't lock down the person they wa…	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/06/26 03:43 AM
7	I don't understand why men take pride in saying they have low standards You're projecting your own experience onto everyone else. Plenty of men are struggling, so getting even basic interest or a relationship is something they're genuinely proud of because it isn't easy for them. You're also conflating 'having low standards' with recognizing your own dating reality. Many men would happily date women they normally wouldn't have considered because their options are limited. That's not necessarily a lack of self-respect; it's adapting to their circumstances. Your frien…	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/06/26 03:22 AM
5	I don't understand why men take pride in saying they have low standards You're projecting your own experience onto everyone else. Plenty of men are struggling, so getting even basic interest or a relationship is something they're genuinely proud of because it isn't easy for them. You're also conflating 'having low standards' with recognizing your own dating reality. Many men would happily date women they normally wouldn't have considered because their options are limited. That's not necessarily a lack of self-respect; it's adapting to their circumstances. Your frien…	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/06/26 03:19 AM
1	Do you view being penetrated as submissive, degrading or bad? You're arguing against a point I didn't make. I never said it's true because it's an old belief. I said society has viewed it that way for a long time, so it isn't surprising that many people still do. So get it right before commenting on this old ass post.	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/06/26 03:14 AM
–	Is too much perfection a red flag? If he comes across as genuine and it all feels natural, probably not. People usually don't get suspicious just because someone is charismatic. They get suspicious when it feels rehearsed, forced, or too polished to be authentic.	/r/PurplePillDebate	25/06/26 01:25 AM
9	Modern Men Are Being Punished for a Past They Didn’t Create The debate isn't over whether women have valid concerns. Most men already accept that they do. The real question is whether those concerns justify viewing men as inherently suspicious until proven otherwise. In nearly every other area of life, people argue that individuals should be judged on their own conduct rather than being associated with the actions of a broader group. Yet when it comes to men, that principle is often applied far less consistently. That's one reason male-focused spaces gai…	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/06/26 08:51 PM
7	Do male victims even exist in the eyes of women? Society generally has more sympathy for women in situations like this, especially in dating. When a woman gets misled, used, or emotionally played, people usually understand that deception matters. They don't just say, "Well, she should have known better." They recognize that being lied to can make someone a victim. Yet when the roles are reversed, people often act like the man is just silly for trusting her. Suddenly the deception barely matters, and all the blame gets shifted onto him for beli…	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/06/26 07:35 PM
–	There are no free good men That doesn't really show she was screwed over though. It shows she kept choosing the same path despite the results. If she's been single for 20+ years and still refuses to adjust her standards, then at some point it's not society forcing that outcome on her. It's a conscious decision to keep holding out for what she wants. The difference is that most men don't get to do that for very long. A man with unrealistic standards is usually confronted with reality pretty quickly because he isn't getting…	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/06/26 06:31 PM
2	I think that women highly value confidence and this puts men at a significant dating disadvantage. To some extent, yes. If confidence is a trait that many women strongly prefer, and modern life is producing more anxious, isolated, and socially awkward men, then that naturally creates a mismatch. The thing I'd push back on is that women aren't usually selecting for confidence because they want men to suffer. Confidence tends to signal competence, social ability, leadership, resilience, and the ability to handle uncertainty. Whether those signals are always accurate is a separate question. The …	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/06/26 05:53 PM
–	There are no free good men Yeah, it happens on both sides, but men usually get taught reality a lot faster. A guy can want a fit, attractive woman all day long, but if he's average, awkward, or out of shape, there's a good chance those women won't even look his way romantically. Men get that feedback pretty quickly. A lot of women, even ones who aren't particularly attractive, can still get male attention. It may only be sexual attention, but it's still attention. That can make it easier to believe that higher-level optio…	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/06/26 05:36 PM
1	Are men who gossip or make fun of others generally considered attractive to women? Something can come from insecurity and still function as a status display. Those aren't mutually exclusive. A man can be seeking validation, trying to put someone beneath him, and still successfully improve his standing within the group. Also, most people want approval and acceptance from others, especially younger people. Seeking social validation isn't some trait unique to insecure men. It's a pretty normal part of human social behavior. The question isn't whether the behavior is morally good.…	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/06/26 05:26 PM
2	Are you sure size doesn't matter? I think you're probably overestimating size and underestimating skill. Size matters to some extent, especially at the extremes, but knowing how to use what you have is likely far more important for most women than moving from one size category to another. That's one reason why you hear so many women say size isn't everything. They aren't necessarily saying size has zero impact. They're saying a guy with average size and good sexual skills is often going to outperform a bigger guy who has no idea…	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/06/26 04:52 PM
2	Men are blamed first before any rationality is considered because women will never choose a stance against each other if they can blame men The interesting part is not whether people agree or disagree with the policy. It's the accountability question. A lot of men remember raising concerns about some of these issues years ago and being attacked for it. Then when some women later raise similar concerns, the concern itself suddenly becomes more acceptable to discuss. What makes people cynical is that the blame often still gets redirected toward men, even when many of the men being blamed were among the people objecting in the first pl…	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/06/26 04:03 PM
1	Most people don’t want to be around someone with a victim complex, You seriously dug this old post up just to say this.	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/06/26 03:52 PM
2	People, especially women, will often push their personal boundaries to make their partner happy. What's interesting is that this directly contradicts the idea that most boundaries are completely fixed and non-negotiable. If people regularly move them for partners they value, then they clearly aren't as absolute as they're often presented. People often say things like "just be yourself" or "the right person will accept you exactly as you are," but in reality most relationships involve negotiation, compromise, and adapting to what the other person wants. Both men and women move boundaries, ch…	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/06/26 06:24 AM
6	No AI generated posts Should be no AI-generated posts that read like obvious AI. High-quality AI-assisted content that actually makes sense and contributes to the discussion should be ok.	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/06/26 03:41 AM
3	Why do you still want to date? Well, of course that's the easy solution. The reason people keep discussing it is because most people still want relationships, sex, marriage, or families. Telling people to stop dating is a bit like telling someone who wants a career to stop applying for jobs because the process is frustrating. It technically solves the complaint, but it doesn't solve the underlying desire. Most people aren't trying to figure out how to avoid dating. They're trying to figure out how to make dating work. That's …	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/06/26 09:25 PM
6	The idea that "most men on dating apps are trash and don't want commitment" is egregious inaccurate Yeah, that's a lot more reasonable. If a woman has clearly communicated what she likes and what helps her enjoy sex, then it makes much more sense to criticize a man who repeatedly ignores it or refuses to put in any effort. The problem is that a lot of people jump straight to "he should just know" when different women like different things. At some point there has to be communication. The "if he wanted to, he would" advice can be especially unhelpful because it assumes men automatically know wh…	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/06/26 09:11 PM
5	If women are the problem, why do you want them to birth and raise more kids? No I spoke about the points made and go on about other stuff as well. So you are the one that need to read what is said properly.	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/06/26 08:43 PM
7	The idea that "most men on dating apps are trash and don't want commitment" is egregious inaccurate Well, women might have to assist more with that because different things get different women off. A man can learn general principles, but eventually he's dealing with an individual woman, not women as a whole. If a woman expects a man to know exactly what works for her without communicating it, that's not very realistic either. Some responsibility has to be on her side because women themselves often disagree on what they enjoy.	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/06/26 08:36 PM
3	Desperation isn’t that bad. Yeah, it can look bad on either sex, but society is generally much harsher on male desperation than female desperation. A woman who really wants a relationship is often viewed as romantic, hopeful, or someone who just hasn't found the right person yet. A man who really wants a relationship is much more likely to be viewed as needy, unattractive, or having something wrong with him. The reality is that wanting a relationship isn't inherently a bad thing. The problem is when desperation causes some…	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/06/26 08:21 PM
4	If women are the problem, why do you want them to birth and raise more kids? That doesn't really work because I responded to the argument that was made, not a worldview I supposedly hold. If someone makes a claim and I think the logic is flawed, I don't need to share their worldview to point that out. Anyway, we can end it there, as you just keep responding to me with nonsense, and I’m done with your post. So just move along.	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/06/26 08:15 PM
3	Why do I see different behaviour btw women here and real life for same statements? Neither. The more likely explanation is that people online often speak in generalizations, while real life is much more nuanced. For example, "women can smell virgins" is usually shorthand for saying that some inexperienced men may come across differently in certain situations. It's obviously not a literal superpower because plenty of women fail to identify virgins correctly all the time. The same thing applies to the other points. When people say "if you're single, it's your fault," they're oft…	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/06/26 07:59 PM
26	Is inexperience really that unappealing in men? The contradiction is that a lot of women say they want experienced men, socially calibrated men, confident men, and men who understand relationships, while also dismissing how difficult it can be for some men to get that experience in the first place. Experience isn't valuable because it magically teaches a man how to be a decent human being. It's valuable because it provides social proof. If other women wanted him, many women assume there must be a reason. That's why the job comparison gets bro…	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/06/26 07:50 PM
3	If women are the problem, why do you want them to birth and raise more kids? No. The argument was never that women are "the problem." The argument was that women can have flaws, just like men can have flaws. Maybe learn to read what is actually said.	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/06/26 07:48 PM
1	Most people don’t want to be around someone with a victim complex, Yeah but I'm speaking in general.	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/06/26 07:44 PM
3	Question for bluepill: why do all the same rules apply to men who want to be stay-at-home dads? Yeah, a lot of that framing is basically women trying to make abundance sound like hardship. Of course some men on apps only want sex. Nobody denies that. The issue is pretending that nearly every man in a massive queue is unserious, unavailable, unattractive, or disqualified. Most men on dating apps are not living like celebrities. They are getting few matches, few dates, and would likely be open to something serious if they met a woman they actually liked. So when a woman has hundreds or thous…	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/06/26 08:33 AM
5	What red flags in women do men commonly miss? Part of the reason many men gravitated toward RP is that it was willing to discuss topics like this. Whether people agree with every RP claim or not, it at least attempted to identify warning signs and relationship patterns that many men felt nobody else was willing to discuss. A lot of the pushback comes when those red flags are pointed out. Men are often told to choose better, but when discussions start about how to identify bad behavior, poor partner selection, lack of accountability, manipul…	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/06/26 07:04 AM
9	The manosphere thrives because society has failed to provide an alternative. Part of the frustration is that a lot of women seem to define "help" as getting men to agree with their interpretation of men's problems. If men describe their experiences and say, "That's not what happened" or "That advice didn't work," the response is often that the men are wrong, resistant, insecure, or unwilling to improve. Imagine if women described a problem affecting women and men responded by telling them what the real problem was, dismissing their explanations, and insisting they follow…	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/06/26 06:39 AM
5	The manosphere thrives because society has failed to provide an alternative. Trying to be slick there. I never said they were my problems, so quit being silly. Second, nobody said acknowledgement alone solves anything. The point is that if people won't even acknowledge a problem exists, they're certainly not going to help address it. By your logic, we could dismiss discussion of any issue by saying, "Acknowledging it doesn't solve it." Nobody applies that standard to issues affecting women, so no reason to apply it here.	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/06/26 06:23 AM
6	How do the conversations about women willing to do naughtier things with past partners come up? Sometimes the man asks directly about past relationships, sexual history, exes, fantasies, or things she's done before. Other times the woman volunteers the information herself during conversations about past relationships or sexual experiences. The more important point is that these conversations usually don't become an issue simply because the information came up. They become an issue when the man perceives a difference in desire, effort, or enthusiasm. For example, if he hears, "I did X, Y, a…	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/06/26 05:38 AM
12	How do the conversations about women willing to do naughtier things with past partners come up? Yeah, that can absolutely happen. Sometimes people put in more effort when they feel they have to earn someone's attention. The problem is that if a man's preferences aren't actually being met, the reason why doesn't matter all that much. Whether she wasn't attracted enough, felt she could do less, or just changed over time, the outcome is the same. That's why men should focus less on the explanation and more on finding women whose natural behavior already aligns with what they want in a relatio…	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/06/26 05:17 AM
10	The manosphere thrives because society has failed to provide an alternative. The flaw is that you're assuming the only way women can help is by becoming someone's romantic partner. Nobody is saying women have to date lonely men. The argument is that women can acknowledge the problem exists, stop dismissing it, stop treating every struggling man as morally defective, and stop acting like male loneliness is a joke.	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/06/26 05:11 AM
8	If women are the problem, why do you want them to birth and raise more kids? No. The flaw in your response is that you're jumping from "women have flaws" to "therefore men should raise all the children." Recognizing that women have weaknesses doesn't mean men automatically become the better parent in every situation. It just means women aren't perfect, which was the original point. You also ignored what I actually said. My argument was that men can recognize problems with women and still understand there aren't many real alternatives if they want relationships, families,…	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/06/26 05:04 AM
11	The manosphere thrives because society has failed to provide an alternative. The problem is you're acting as if the only two options are "take women's advice" or "have no solution." A lot of men reject that advice because it often doesn't address the problem they're actually describing. If a man is struggling because he can't get dates, telling him to go to therapy doesn't suddenly create opportunities. Therapy can help some issues, but it isn't a universal solution to every male problem. Also, women don't get to define what help must look like and then declare men unrea…	/r/PurplePillDebate	23/06/26 04:55 AM
10	If women are the problem, why do you want them to birth and raise more kids? The flaw in the argument is that men can recognize problems with women and still understand there aren't many real alternatives. If most men want families, relationships, sex, and children, then women are still the path to that. Pointing out female flaws doesn't magically create another option for reproduction or family formation. So it isn't inconsistent to say women have issues while still wanting birth rates to recover. Men are basically dealing with the options that exist, not some perfect a…	/r/PurplePillDebate	22/06/26 11:06 PM
27	The manosphere thrives because society has failed to provide an alternative. Men should help each other, but that doesn’t mean women have no role in the culture they helped shape. Men supported women’s movements, voted for women’s rights, defended women’s issues, and were expected to care about problems that didn’t directly affect them. So it’s not crazy for men to ask women to return some of that concern when men are struggling. Nobody is saying women should date men they don’t want or live with men who hate them. That’s a strawman. The point is that if society expects …	/r/PurplePillDebate	22/06/26 10:47 PM
5	Men not wanting to pay for the date indicates lack of interest and low aggreeableness Not necessarily. A man paying for a date doesn't automatically mean he'll be a better partner. It can just mean he's meeting a social expectation that has existed for a long time. There are plenty of men who pay and end up being terrible partners, and plenty who split the bill and end up being great partners. Paying can be a signal of generosity for some people, but it's far from proof of character.	/r/PurplePillDebate	22/06/26 10:43 PM
11	Men not wanting to pay for the date indicates lack of interest and low aggreeableness That doesn't follow at all. A man not wanting to spend $50-$75 on a stranger says nothing about whether he's financially secure. By that logic, anyone who doesn't hand money to people they just met must be financially insecure. Most people would recognize that's silly. Financial security is about what you have, not how willing you are to spend it on someone you've known for an hour. A financially secure man can still decide a first date should be 50/50. If someone thinks a man is a bad partner b…	/r/PurplePillDebate	22/06/26 10:41 PM
13	The manosphere thrives because society has failed to provide an alternative. The reason RP resonates with so many men is that it starts from realities many men have already experienced. Men are judged heavily on competence, status, confidence, income, social ability, and usefulness whether people want to admit it or not. A man who lacks those things will often receive less respect, less romantic interest, and less sympathy than a woman in a similar position. That's also why a lot of mainstream advice falls flat. Telling a struggling man to "just be vulnerable" or "just g…	/r/PurplePillDebate	22/06/26 10:30 PM
–	Gender relationship are harmed by blank slatism Yeah, women generally don't mind that being said as long as it stays as a standalone observation. The pushback usually starts when it's connected to why men are more desperate for sex, why men pursue more, why men struggle more in dating, or why women are typically more selective. At that point, a lot of women suddenly become much less willing to accept the difference because accepting it can lead to conclusions they don't like about male and female behavior. That's where most of the controversy…	/r/PurplePillDebate	22/06/26 04:27 PM
–	Do men get crushes on older women? Yeah some men definitely can its just not as common as liking younger ones.	/r/PurplePillDebate	22/06/26 04:17 PM
–	Are most women actually snubbish/mean to men they find attractive? It can happen, but I wouldn't treat it as common or reliable. Some women, especially younger or more inexperienced ones, may act awkward, avoid eye contact, give short answers, or seem cold around a guy they find attractive because they're nervous or intimidated. That doesn't mean it's the default though. For most grown women, if she's interested, there will usually be some kind of warmth, effort, or openness eventually. If all you're getting is distance, short responses, and avoidance, it's muc…	/r/PurplePillDebate	22/06/26 06:31 AM
7	Alot of women want to control men and their sex life and it can be proven by a simple hypothetical Yeah that's why I think some sort of protection for the men would have to exist for the idea to work at all. Otherwise you're basically giving someone access to the country with no guarantee they'll continue participating in the arrangement that got them there in the first place. The hard part is creating those protections without creating a system that looks abusive or coercive.	/r/PurplePillDebate	22/06/26 05:24 AM
–	Expecting Men to Pay for First Dates Is Entitlement Yeah, because men are the ones taking the risk if they don't. Paying is still the long-established gender expectation, and a lot of women still expect or prefer it even today. So while men help keep it going, they're often responding to the reality of the dating market. A man who insists on splitting is taking a bigger risk than a woman who expects him to pay. If women collectively stopped expecting or rewarding it, the norm would change pretty quickly. The reason it hasn't is because the expect…	/r/PurplePillDebate	22/06/26 04:52 AM
–	Expecting Men to Pay for First Dates Is Entitlement Yeah, they bring that up so they can pretend they face dating challenges comparable to what men deal with when they really don't. Spending money on makeup and outfits isn't the same thing as having to generate interest, approach, risk rejection, and create opportunities in the first place.	/r/PurplePillDebate	22/06/26 04:47 AM
–	We shouldn't incentive young heterosexuals to have relationships, maybe the opposite That doesn't really address the point. Even if young people desire relationships and children less than previous generations, that doesn't mean the desire is primarily caused by social pressure. Those are two different claims. People can want something less than previous generations and still genuinely want it. The fact that birth rates are falling doesn't prove people are being liberated from an artificial burden. It could just as easily mean economic conditions, housing costs, dating difficult…	/r/PurplePillDebate	22/06/26 04:21 AM
1	Blue pill ideology give terrible advice for men Yeah, a lot of that advice sounds nice because it lets people act like they gave a helpful answer without actually addressing the problem. Just be yourself only works if yourself is already attractive enough to get results. If a man is struggling, telling him to keep doing what he is already doing is basically telling him to stay stuck. Focus on yourself can also become bad advice if it turns into hiding from the dating market completely. Self-improvement matters, but men still usually have to a…	/r/PurplePillDebate	22/06/26 02:26 AM
–	We shouldn't incentive young heterosexuals to have relationships, maybe the opposite The biggest flaw is assuming young people are avoiding relationships because they're finally free from social pressure. A lot of young people still want relationships, marriage, and families. The problem is increasingly getting and maintaining them, not suddenly deciding they don't matter. You're also treating population decline as if it's purely a climate benefit while ignoring the costs. Every country with collapsing birth rates eventually runs into the same problems: aging populations, labor …	/r/PurplePillDebate	22/06/26 02:13 AM
2	Alot of women want to control men and their sex life and it can be proven by a simple hypothetical Not necessarily. A lot of men already have to attract women through things beyond pure physical appearance. Status, income, confidence, personality, lifestyle, social skills, and competence all affect attraction in the real world. So if a man goes somewhere his overall value is viewed more favorably, it's not automatically true that none of the attraction is genuine. Women in different places can have different preferences and prioritize different traits. That said, I do think men should be real…	/r/PurplePillDebate	22/06/26 01:46 AM
3	Would people view Forrest Gump differently if genders were swapped? No problem thats not a bad thing at all.	/r/PurplePillDebate	21/06/26 11:39 PM
2	Would people view Forrest Gump differently if genders were swapped? Damn, you read all that fast or not at all, lol. Anyway, yeah, a lot of women will not freely do that, especially anywhere near their prime. I can kind of see it being done by elderly women living alone with no one.	/r/PurplePillDebate	21/06/26 11:36 PM
3	Would people view Forrest Gump differently if genders were swapped? Yeah, I'd disagree with that. Those stories get talked about online, but that doesn't mean women actually receive more accountability for those choices. A lot of the time the discussion still shifts back to the men involved. The focus becomes what the bad men did, how they manipulated her, misled her, or took advantage of her rather than why she kept choosing the same type of man repeatedly. That's part of why RP gets so vilified in the first place. One of its core ideas is that women have agenc…	/r/PurplePillDebate	21/06/26 11:28 PM
2	Gen Z men should avoid "quick and easy" and impersonal methods for finding themselves a relationship The biggest flaw in this advice is that it assumes the men struggling with dating already have women in their lives with whom they can build these deep emotional connections. If a man already has female friends, active social circles, hobby groups, classmates, coworkers, and regular opportunities to develop attraction naturally, he's often not the guy people are talking about when they discuss men struggling with dating. You're essentially telling men to only fish where fish already exist. The p…	/r/PurplePillDebate	21/06/26 10:52 PM
8	Would people view Forrest Gump differently if genders were swapped? Yes, people would absolutely view it differently if the genders were swapped. Man Jenny would be criticized heavily for leading someone on, using someone as a backup option, and refusing to commit. The focus of the discussion would overwhelmingly be on his behavior. Female Forrest, on the other hand, would likely receive far more sympathy than accountability. Most of the conversation would be about how she was manipulated, used, misled, or taken advantage of rather than why she kept returning to…	/r/PurplePillDebate	21/06/26 10:29 PM
6	Blue Pill/Womans advice makes far more sense if you imply 1 point. Yeah, exactly. A lot of the advice makes more sense if you assume people are viewing dating through a female experience. If a woman is struggling to get any dates, relationships, or attention at all, many people will assume something unusual is going on because opportunities are generally easier to come by. So the advice naturally focuses on mindset, standards, emotional issues, social skills, or other internal factors. For many men, the first challenge is generating opportunities in the first p…	/r/PurplePillDebate	21/06/26 09:58 PM
3	Alot of women want to control men and their sex life and it can be proven by a simple hypothetical I think the biggest flaw is that you're assuming access equals attraction. A woman may be willing to date a man because he offers access to America, higher income, and a better life. That creates opportunity, but it doesn't automatically create genuine desire. Those are two different things. I also don't think this solves male dating struggles the way you think it does. If a man's problem is lack of options, then sure, it helps. If his problem is wanting a partner who genuinely desires him, then…	/r/PurplePillDebate	21/06/26 09:47 PM
6	Alot of women want to control men and their sex life and it can be proven by a simple hypothetical So the men would have to be smart about what kind of arrangement they are actually entering. If it is basically lifestyle, residency, and opportunity doing most of the work, then locking in too seriously long term may be where a lot of them get burned. That does not mean it could never work. It just means the man should not confuse being useful with being desired. A dating visa might create more options, but it would also create a lot of relationships where the main attraction is the life attach…	/r/PurplePillDebate	21/06/26 09:41 PM
2	What unique value do you think men provide to society, that can't be provided by women? The answers will probably downplay it, but the honest answer is a lot. Most of the infrastructure that keeps society running is heavily male. Construction, power grids, plumbing, oil, gas, trucking, waste management, military defense, emergency response, mining, heavy industry, and dangerous maintenance work are mostly done by men. That doesn't mean women contribute nothing. It means the idea that society would be better off without men is silly. A lot of people can say that because they live on…	/r/PurplePillDebate	21/06/26 07:49 PM
14	I have a question. Why do men seem to care more about what women do more than women care more about what men do? Part of that is because men and women occupy different roles in dating. Men are still generally expected to approach, pursue, risk rejection, and make the first move. Because of that, men tend to pay more attention to women's relationship status, availability, and dating choices than women pay attention to men's. That doesn't justify every comment, but it does explain why you see more men discussing whether women are single, why they're single, or what choices they're making. Those choices affec…	/r/PurplePillDebate	21/06/26 07:28 PM
6	Excluding sons, do you have little to no sympathy for men? I think there's some truth to the observation, but you're making a stronger claim than your examples support. Women often do seem to show more sympathy toward children, animals, the elderly, and people who are viewed as vulnerable. Men around their own age are usually judged more on competence, confidence, status, and capability. When those men struggle, the response is often advice, criticism, or solutions rather than sympathy. That doesn't necessarily mean there is no empathy. It may mean thos…	/r/PurplePillDebate	21/06/26 07:21 PM
–	Expecting Men to Pay for First Dates Is Entitlement The problem with calling it tradition is that people usually only defend tradition when it benefits them. If equality is the standard, then expecting men to pay simply because they're men is an inequality by definition. It's a financial obligation being placed on one sex and not the other. What's interesting is how often this gets reframed when it's a female-benefiting expectation. Traditional expectations placed on women are usually criticized as outdated, unfair, or sexist. Traditional expecta…	/r/PurplePillDebate	21/06/26 08:01 AM
7	Q4W: Are there any critiques of feminism that you believe are valid from a woman’s perspective? A fair criticism is that modern feminism often struggles to admit when parts of the movement have gone too far. Some critics do have a point when they say certain feminist spaces dismiss men's issues, excuse double standards, or treat disagreement as misogyny. That doesn't mean every feminist believes that, but it is common enough that people notice it. I also think the sex work point is fair. Calling everything empowerment can become silly when it ignores exploitation, pressure, trauma, and lon…	/r/PurplePillDebate	21/06/26 07:48 AM
1	Feminists could do well, if they develop humility Yeah, I think that's where a lot of the criticism comes from. A movement can start with good intentions and still drift over time. The problem is that when some people spend more time dismissing men's issues than addressing women's issues, it creates resentment and pushes potential allies away. A movement doesn't have to agree with every complaint men have, but constantly framing men's problems as unimportant or self-inflicted isn't going to win people over. That's also why many people distingui…	/r/PurplePillDebate	21/06/26 05:54 AM
6	"Personality" and "social skills" are just attempts to moralizing dating and make lonely men feel bad You're treating the existence of abusive men in relationships as proof that personality doesn't matter. That doesn't follow. At most, it proves that having a bad personality doesn't always prevent someone from getting into a relationship. Those are two different claims. The same logic would apply to looks. There are unattractive people in relationships too. That wouldn't prove looks don't matter. It would only prove that lacking one desirable trait doesn't automatically remove someone from the d…	/r/PurplePillDebate	21/06/26 05:04 AM
–	I do not believe that dudes being dangerous/aggressive is an excuse for girls to lie to guys or lead them/manipulate them or not give them an explanation: It does matter what the reason is because the reason determines whether someone's behavior is justified or not. You can argue that ghosting, mixed signals, or leading people on is unfair. That's a separate argument from saying every person owes an explanation in every situation. You're also treating loneliness, depression, and misery as if they are caused solely by other people's choices. Rejection hurts, but that doesn't automatically mean the person who rejected you wronged you. As for closure…	/r/PurplePillDebate	21/06/26 04:47 AM
11	Can you explain what emasculation feels like? Or is? I think for a lot of men, emasculation is less about ordinary embarrassment and more about feeling like you've failed at being a man in a way that strikes at your identity. If a guy loses a game, makes a mistake at work, or says something silly, that's usually just embarrassment. Emasculation is when the failure gets tied to traits that many men associate with masculinity itself: competence, strength, confidence, leadership, capability, provision, protection, or respect. That's why it can feel m…	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/06/26 11:54 PM
1	Do you think straight men would be better or worse at dating than women if they became women? You're just asserting that a man in a woman's body would get murdered immediately, but that doesn't actually follow from anything. Being inexperienced at dating men might mean he makes mistakes, misses signals, or has to learn faster. It doesn't mean instant murder. That's an extreme outcome being treated like the default. Plenty of women make bad dating choices, ignore red flags, or lack experience and still don't end up murdered. So I don't see why this hypothetical man would automatically jum…	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/06/26 11:21 PM
3	Fellas it isn’t a matter of women not being into you because of lack of moral character but seeing you as defective/incompetent You're taking a real trend and turning it into an absolute. A lot of women are attracted to competence, confidence, success, and status, but that's not the same thing as all women being attracted to power. The bigger issue is the leap from rejection to being viewed as a defective human being. Attractive, successful, competent men get rejected all the time. Rejection alone doesn't prove someone is viewed as defective. You're also dismissing compatibility before anyone can even mention it. If a wo…	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/06/26 11:13 PM
1	Do you think straight men would be better or worse at dating than women if they became women? That seems like a pretty extreme leap. Getting attention from men is not the same thing as getting murdered. Millions of women use dating apps every day without being brutally attacked or killed. If that outcome was immediate or common, dating apps wouldn't exist. You're also skipping over the actual point I made. I didn't say there would be no risks or learning curve. I said attracting men would likely be easier than many people admit, while filtering and selecting the right men would be the ha…	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/06/26 10:58 PM
2	I do not believe that dudes being dangerous/aggressive is an excuse for girls to lie to guys or lead them/manipulate them or not give them an explanation: Damn you wrote a whole book saying that. Anyway I think you're mixing together a few different things. Being honest is generally better than leading someone on, giving false hope, or intentionally wasting their time. Most people would agree with that. Where I disagree is the idea that people owe detailed explanations or closure to everyone who is interested in them. If someone barely knows you, they're allowed to simply not be interested. Attraction isn't a court case where a written explanation…	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/06/26 10:40 PM
1	A woman's "bare minimum" is never just the bare minimum The issue is that what gets called the bare minimum often stops being the bare minimum once enough requirements get stacked together. Each individual trait may be reasonable, but when you want all of them at once, you're no longer talking about an average guy. Modern dating also makes it easier to keep looking for something slightly better. If every flaw is treated as a red flag and every disagreement is treated as a dealbreaker, then even good options can get filtered out. Nobody is saying wome…	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/06/26 05:55 PM
–	If you had to assign a %, how much would you say your attraction to a guy is who he is and how much of it is what he does for you? For most women it's not really an either/or. Both matter, just at different stages. Who he is tends to determine whether she's interested in the first place. Things like looks, personality, confidence, status, competence, social skills, humor, and lifestyle all play a role in attraction. If there's little or no attraction, how he treats her often won't create it from nothing. How he treats her tends to determine whether that attraction grows, stays, or fades over time. A man can be attractive on…	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/06/26 05:48 PM
24	Why is there such a massive asymmetry in how men pursue women vs. how women pursue men? A big part of it is that men are usually expected to do most of the pursuing, initiating, escalating, and taking rejection. So one of the things that motivates that pursuit is visual attraction. Men are generally more visually driven, and since they have to do most of the work to create romantic or sexual opportunities, that visual pull matters a lot. Women can love intimacy and romance just as much, but they usually don't have to pursue men at the same volume to get access to it. That's why the…	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/06/26 05:09 PM
0	There's No Shame in a Man Wanting a Bangmaid Yeah, male preferences get villainized all the time, so this shouldn't really be surprising. The term itself is doing a lot of the work. "Bangmaid" is deliberately framed to make the preference sound as negative and exploitative as possible before the discussion even starts. If a man says he wants a woman who is attractive, affectionate, and willing to take on some traditional household responsibilities, that's a very different framing even though people are often describing the same thing. The …	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/06/26 04:26 PM
1	Do you think straight men would be better or worse at dating than women if they became women? You're still assuming that overlooking red flags is something uniquely male when people of both sexes do it all the time. Women ignore red flags for attractive men constantly. People stay in bad relationships, excuse bad behavior, rationalize warning signs, and convince themselves things will get better because they're attracted to someone. That's not evidence of a specifically male mentality. You're also assuming he would permanently think like a man who is physically stronger than everyone aro…	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/06/26 04:17 PM
1	Do you think straight men would be better or worse at dating than women if they became women? That still assumes he would be uniquely bad at spotting danger because he used to be a man, and I don't really see the basis for that. Women overlook red flags for attractive people too. Plenty of women ignore obvious warning signs, stay with abusive partners, date men they know are bad for them, or convince themselves problems aren't that serious because they're attracted to the guy. That's not a uniquely male trait. It also focuses entirely on physical harm while ignoring that women can hurt m…	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/06/26 04:08 PM
1	Do you think straight men would be better or worse at dating than women if they became women? You're answering a different question. The OP asked whether being a man all his life means he wouldn't know how to attract men the way women do. Your response is mostly about the difficulty of sorting through bad men once the attraction is already happening. The bad men cutting in front of the good men doesn't change the fact that he's still attracting men. It just means some of the attention is coming from people he doesn't want. That's a filtering problem, not an attraction problem. More impor…	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/06/26 03:56 PM
2	when women say they're attracted to confidence, what do they mean? Yeah, that's pretty much what I was thinking. Confidence seems to switch between an attractive trait and the absence of a negative trait depending on what's being discussed. That's where a lot of the confusion comes from.	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/06/26 03:49 PM
1	Do you think straight men would be better or worse at dating than women if they became women? Attracting bad men does not prevent someone from attracting good men. Those are not mutually exclusive. The fact that some men would be rude, entitled, aggressive, or otherwise undesirable doesn't prove he couldn't attract the type of man he actually wants. It just means he would have to sort through more options to find him. Ironically, having more attention generally gives you more chances to find the kind of partner you're looking for, not fewer. The challenge becomes filtering, not attractin…	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/06/26 03:41 PM
1	Do you think straight men would be better or worse at dating than women if they became women? This assumes men would completely lose interest the moment he showed any masculine traits, which doesn't really match reality. Plenty of women have boss-like personalities, are assertive, outspoken, competitive, make more money than their partner, or hold leadership positions, and they still attract plenty of men. Some men dislike those traits, some don't. It also assumes he would permanently act exactly like a man. People adapt to their environment all the time. If he spent years dating men as …	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/06/26 03:34 PM
3	Do you think straight men would be better or worse at dating than women if they became women? This is still making vetting and reputation management the whole argument when the main point is about attracting men. He would have to learn how to filter attention, spot red flags, communicate in a more feminine way, and avoid certain mistakes. Women are not automatically good at those things from day one either. Plenty of women learn those lessons through getting played, ignoring red flags, dating bad men, or dealing with entitlement over time. The attention part actually proves the point. Be…	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/06/26 03:30 PM
1	Do you think straight men would be better or worse at dating than women if they became women? Attracting men would be much easier for him as a woman. Attracting his ideal man would be harder, but that's true for women in general as well. The question isn't whether every man who shows interest would be a good option. The question is whether he would have more ability to attract the kind of men he wants. As a halfway decent looking woman, he would have far more male attention and opportunities than he did as a man. Vetting would be the harder part, but women are not automatically great at …	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/06/26 03:24 PM
6	when women say they're attracted to confidence, what do they mean? I think part of the confusion is that women often use "confidence" to describe two different things. Sometimes they mean basic adult functioning: not being extremely insecure, needy, socially anxious, or constantly seeking reassurance. In that sense, confidence isn't really an attractive trait so much as the absence of a negative trait. Other times they're talking about a man who is comfortable with himself, willing to take initiative, socially competent, and not easily shaken by rejection or di…	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/06/26 06:31 AM
3	Sex isn’t special. I don't really agree at all. For a lot of people it absolutely is built up to be that good, especially if they have a healthy sex drive and are with someone they're genuinely attracted to. Even with someone they aren't as attracted to, a good deal of men can still enjoy it a great deal. I think you're understating how enjoyable sex can be. Just because some men also want validation, intimacy, or acceptance doesn't mean they're mistaken about wanting sex itself. A lot of men know exactly what the…	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/06/26 05:34 AM
3	Who's worse: a man who pays for sex or a man who lies to get laid?? Honestly, it depends on the lie. If we're talking about a blatant lie where a man knowingly pretends he wants a future with a woman just to keep getting sex while planning to leave the entire time, that's worse than paying for sex in my opinion. At least with paying for sex both people understand the arrangement from the start. A resume-type lie is different. People do that all the time in dating. They present themselves in the best possible light, leave out flaws, exaggerate accomplishments, or…	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/06/26 05:03 AM
4	Do you think straight men would be better or worse at dating than women if they became women? I think you're overstating how invisible average women are. Using the grocery store isn't the best example since women have spent years telling men they don't want to be cold approached in places like that. The attention tends to show up in places where meeting people is actually expected: dating apps, social media, bars, clubs, parties, friend groups, school, and various online communities. So no, maybe an average woman isn't getting approached while running errands. That doesn't mean she's inv…	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/06/26 04:42 AM
3	Do you think straight men would be better or worse at dating than women if they became women? Yeah, if we're talking about looking like a model or doing advanced makeup, sure. That can take a lot of skill and practice. If we're talking about the level needed to attract men, I think that's being overstated. Basic makeup, basic grooming, and basic fashion are not that difficult to learn. Most people can get competent at that fairly quickly, especially with YouTube, social media, or someone in their life showing them the basics. More importantly, plenty of women get male attention without b…	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/06/26 04:38 AM
1	Do you think straight men would be better or worse at dating than women if they became women? Nah, it’s not that hard, especially in comparison to men’s journey to being attractive. Like I said, it’s not really needed either, especially getting really dolled up.	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/06/26 04:34 AM
1	There are no free good men That sounds less like a relationship and more like a performance review. If the expectation is that a man must continuously improve a woman's lifestyle beyond what she can already provide herself or he's "beneath her," then you're basically describing a one-sided standard. Most men aren't evaluating women by asking whether she materially upgrades every aspect of his life. The other issue is that you're giving women credit for all progress while treating men as passive participants who only impro…	/r/PurplePillDebate	20/06/26 04:31 AM
6	How many good women are there? Probably not as many as society likes to suggest. Modern culture tends to frame women in a much more flattering light than reality supports, especially in gender discussions. Women are often talked about as if they are naturally more moral, more mature, more emotionally intelligent, and more principled, but being a woman doesn't automatically give someone a strong moral compass. Plenty of women have principles, self-control, integrity, and their life together. Plenty also don't. Same as men. The…	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/06/26 07:21 PM
5	Women, what if the problem isn’t men, but the criteria you use to choose them? Of course many women are never going to admit that if it's true, because it requires acknowledging that some of their dating outcomes may be connected to the qualities they prioritize when choosing partners. It's much easier to blame a lack of good options than to consider whether excitement, chemistry, and strong emotions were given more weight than stability, consistency, and long-term compatibility. That's not an easy thing for anyone to admit, especially when it means taking a harder look at…	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/06/26 07:12 PM
9	Do you think straight men would be better or worse at dating than women if they became women? I think this overstates how difficult it is. A man who suddenly became an average-looking woman wouldn't need years of training just to attract men. Women get attention online every day with minimal effort, minimal makeup, and sometimes without even showing much of themselves. The idea that average women are invisible to men in their natural state doesn't really line up with reality. The beauty and makeup side is also being exaggerated. Basic grooming, fashion, and simple makeup can be learned p…	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/06/26 07:06 PM
3	Do you think straight men would be better or worse at dating than women if they became women? That assumes what men want is inherently against women's interests, which is a pretty big assumption. Experience can point to that sometimes, but it can point to the reverse too. Men could easily argue that women often want things that go against men's interests. That's why I called it an assumption. You're treating a conflict that exists in some cases as if it's the default." yes, and it doesn't change a thing in my argument. Yes, it does. If both men and women commonly feel the other side's st…	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/06/26 06:54 PM
–	Cheating is almost inevitable in human relationships. Yeah, some definitely will. If a man spent years struggling to get attention and suddenly has more options than he's ever had before, some are absolutely going to experiment with that. That's just reality. Going from scarcity to abundance can change people's behavior. That still doesn't make cheating inevitable, though. It just means that the temptation becomes much stronger for some people once they finally have options. The people who never had many opportunities are often the ones who suddenl…	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/06/26 11:06 AM
6	Do you think straight men would be better or worse at dating than women if they became women? That assumes what men want is inherently against women's interests, which is a pretty big assumption. Also, if men's standards are supposedly never enough, then the same criticism could be made in reverse. A lot of men would argue they spend years trying to meet women's expectations around looks, income, status, confidence, ambition, and social skills. The bigger issue is that both sexes tend to view their own compromises as reasonable and the other side's compromises as burdensome. Once you sta…	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/06/26 10:31 AM
2	What a coincidence that all the “average women” the redpill complains about appeal to the male gaze and male ego. Yeah you had no counter and its not a fantasy.	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/06/26 10:24 AM
2	What a coincidence that all the “average women” the redpill complains about appeal to the male gaze and male ego. Yeah they dont have to those are usually the men that learn the hard way.	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/06/26 10:19 AM
10	Do you think straight men would be better or worse at dating than women if they became women? I think he'd probably have a much easier time than people admit. The biggest challenge wouldn't be attracting men. Average women generally don't struggle to get attention from men. The challenge would be attracting the specific men she wants and filtering through options. A man who spent his whole life trying to attract women would already have a decent understanding of what many men find attractive, what catches their attention, and how men think when pursuing someone. If he wakes up as an aver…	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/06/26 09:59 AM
1	Men dating down Because even if you accept hypergamy as real, it doesn't automatically mean men and women are optimizing for the exact same things. A common RP argument is that men are generally more willing to date across income, status, education, and career differences if a woman is attractive and pleasant to be around. Women, on average, are often argued to place more weight on status, ambition, resources, and social standing than men do. So under that framework, a top-tier man doesn't necessarily need a to…	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/06/26 08:43 AM
2	men DO care about a woman’s income Never" is just not true. A male millionaire dealing with a McDonald's cashier is way more possible, Especially if she's attractive and he isn't even looking for marriage. The reverse is where it becomes extremely unlikely.	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/06/26 08:23 AM
3	men DO care about a woman’s income Well obviously when people say that, they aren't saying she can be completely broke with nothing to her name. They're saying they generally don't care about it very much, especially compared to women. That's why "men don't care about income" is usually shorthand for "men don't prioritize it highly," not that it has literally zero importance. The only situation where it may genuinely not matter much at all is casual dating, and most men aren't exactly swimming in casual options anyway.	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/06/26 08:12 AM
4	men DO care about a woman’s income If that's your position, then my point still stands. A man saying he doesn't care much about a woman's income doesn't really tell you whether he's misogynistic or not. So when you say "a lot of the men who say that are misogynistic," you're still attaching a motive to a preference without showing the connection. The preference itself doesn't point one way or the other. As for valuing income, that's exactly why I brought it up. If men generally place less importance on a woman's income, then you'…	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/06/26 07:49 AM
6	men DO care about a woman’s income Yeah, that’s basically the same thing. If you’re saying most men who say it are misogynists, then you’re assuming a huge number of men are misogynists, especially since men generally don’t prioritize a woman’s income nearly as much as women prioritize a man’s. As for marrying similar people, nobody is denying that. The disagreement is whether men value a woman's income to the same degree women value a man's. Those aren't the same claim. On looks, I don't think many people would disagree that loo…	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/06/26 07:40 AM
5	men DO care about a woman’s income Calling men misogynists for not caring much about a woman's income is a stretch. Most men who say that aren't saying they want a woman who is broke and contributes nothing. They're usually saying a woman's income isn't a major factor in attraction the way a man's income often is for women. The marriage point doesn't really prove otherwise either. People often end up with those in similar tax brackets because that's who they're around at school, work, and in their social circles. That doesn't aut…	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/06/26 07:23 AM
5	What a coincidence that all the “average women” the redpill complains about appeal to the male gaze and male ego. This argument is hard to buy because if this only applied to model-tier women, average women would be struggling a lot more than they are. The discussions aren't usually about a tiny group of Instagram models. They're often about patterns men believe they see across women of different looks, backgrounds, and income levels. You can disagree with whether those patterns are real, but dismissing it as men only observing exceptionally attractive women doesn't really explain why similar complaints get…	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/06/26 04:19 AM
5	There are no free good men I’m not Gen Z. Anyway, regardless, you have your generation to blame, which did a pretty pathetic job regarding that.	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/06/26 03:16 AM
4	There are no free good men Yeah, well Gen Z didn't raise itself.	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/06/26 03:04 AM
6	There are no free good men What's silly is that some women will say men are ugly, poor, losers, or not worth dating while fitting some of those same descriptions themselves. Nobody is trying to guilt women into dating men they don't want. The discussion is about why so many women seem to view large portions of the male population as beneath them in the first place. If women view a huge percentage of men as unattractive, undesirable, or beneath their standards, then staying single becomes a predictable outcome. They're fre…	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/06/26 03:01 AM
6	There are no free good men Men didn't wake up one day and randomly decide to think that. A lot of young men spent years hearing that men are dangerous, creepy, toxic, predatory, emotionally immature, or potential threats. After enough exposure to that messaging, some men started viewing women as hostile toward men in general. At the same time, social media has made women's dating and sexual choices far more visible than ever before. Men see endless content about hookups, situationships, "he's just for fun," sharing top gu…	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/06/26 02:53 AM
8	How would you feel about a "reverse orgasm gap*? If the orgasm gap were genuinely reversed and men were routinely getting less sexual satisfaction than women, I think it would change dating dynamics quite a bit. Part of the reason men are willing to do most of the initiating, pursuing, and risk-taking now is because the reward structure generally makes sense from their perspective. If sex consistently became a much better deal for women than for men, you'd probably see fewer men feeling motivated to chase it as aggressively. That doesn't mean …	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/06/26 02:33 AM
–	How does one really change their personality? The biggest issue is that people often use "change your personality" as shorthand for "improve your social outcomes," which aren't the same thing. You generally don't wake up one day and become a completely different person. What usually changes is your habits, experiences, confidence, social skills, and self-perception over time. Those things can influence personality, but they're not the same as replacing your personality. Where I think the post has a point is that success often builds confide…	/r/PurplePillDebate	19/06/26 02:25 AM
1	Men should not be seeking dating advice from women I can see that. It probably makes more sense to get pointers from people whose experiences are closest to your own since every man is dealing with a different set of circumstances. I wouldn't go as far as saying all advice is useless, though. The bigger problem is that people often give advice that worked for them and assume it will work for everyone else. What works for an attractive man, an average man, a wealthy man, a shy man, or a highly social man can be completely different. That's why da…	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/06/26 10:28 PM
7	Men should not be seeking dating advice from women Of course men can listen to women's takes for the fun of it or to understand how women think. The mistake is treating those takes as authoritative advice on male dating struggles. A lot of women have never experienced male loneliness, constant rejection, having to initiate, or being largely invisible in the dating market. Because of that, the advice often ends up sounding detached from the reality many men face. The difference is that men are often forced to understand women's dating struggles w…	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/06/26 06:51 PM
5	CMV: Young women despise young men in the context of relationships I think "despise" is too strong. The bigger issue is that many young women increasingly view themselves as better than the average young man. They're outperforming men in some areas like education and early career development, and many have started to see the average man as beneath them rather than as an equal. That doesn't create hatred. It creates disinterest. If someone believes they're above average, they're usually not going to be enthusiastic about dating what they view as average. That's …	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/06/26 06:16 PM
3	Would you truly enjoy and appreciate arelationship that goes against gender norms of men providing and protecting? I think a moderate number of women would genuinely enjoy that arrangement, but probably not as many as modern rhetoric sometimes suggests. The reason is that people often separate preferences from ideals. A woman may genuinely believe in equality, shared responsibilities, and rejecting traditional gender roles while still finding certain traditionally masculine traits attractive on an emotional level. Those two things can coexist. The financial example is a good illustration. Many women are perf…	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/06/26 04:47 PM
8	Men don't understand what women want because women have been sending mixed signals, not because men have poor understanding. The problem is that you're treating balance as contradiction. Strong but vulnerable, confident but not arrogant, independent but not selfish, generous but not a pushover are not mutually exclusive traits. Most people want the middle ground, not the extremes. Where men have a legitimate complaint is that attraction and context often get left out of the advice. The same behavior can be received very differently depending on who is doing it and how it's being expressed. That still doesn't mean wome…	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/06/26 04:22 PM
3	I've come to the conclusion that men shouldn't be doing 50% of chores, they should be doing 80-90% I think you're confusing correlation with causation. The couples you're describing may be happy because the arrangement works for their personalities, not because the man is doing 90% of everything. For every example of a "superman husband" in a successful marriage, there are plenty of burned-out men who did everything and still got divorced. The second point is also a stretch. Being better at a chore doesn't automatically mean you should be responsible for it. If one spouse is better at earning…	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/06/26 03:41 PM
2	Does anyone care that dating is better now for women? Because it obviously still makes it better if they want to date.	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/06/26 03:29 PM
2	Does anyone care that dating is better now for women? No, I’m saying them having more options is way better. Of course, they can still choose to be single; that’s a separate thing.	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/06/26 03:23 PM
1	Lying and being manipulative to get a girl or keep a girl is bad and will screw you over Yeah, that just sounds like men doing what they think they need to do to attract and keep a woman's interest. Sometimes that's honesty, sometimes it's exaggeration, and sometimes it's outright lying. The Bunnings example is probably the most harmless version of that. A guy pretending to like something because he thinks it will make him more attractive isn't exactly uncommon. The more serious examples are the ones involving jobs, finances, addictions, or major lifestyle issues because those are t…	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/06/26 02:41 PM
1	Does anyone care that dating is better now for women? Okay, but you were talking about dating, so I’m addressing that. In that case, they definitely have it better.	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/06/26 02:29 PM
2	Does anyone care that dating is better now for women? More options definitely make dating way better.	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/06/26 02:21 PM
6	Does anyone care that dating is better now for women? Dating can still be better for women even if more women are staying single. A woman having the ability to reject relationships she doesn't want is not evidence that dating is worse for her. In many cases, it's evidence that she has enough options to be selective. Relationship rates don't tell you how many opportunities people had. They only tell you how many relationships were ultimately formed. A lot of women remaining single can simply reflect women choosing not to accept the options available…	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/06/26 03:51 AM
–	Would you ever let men penetrate you for money? Nah, there isn't a number that would make that possible for me. Sure, there are men who would do it for the right amount of money, but if a man is actually straight, I think the amount of convincing required becomes so extreme that it stops being a realistic proposition for many of them. At that point it's less about the money itself and more about whether they're willing to do something they have absolutely no desire to do. Financial distress might change the answer for some people, but for oth…	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/06/26 02:47 AM
–	CMV: Penis size does matter, bigger may not always be better but smaller than average is a dating death sentence. Yeah, it doesn't matter as much as men think, but of course bigger is generally better than smaller all else being equal. The mistake is assuming size alone determines the outcome. Knowing how to use what a man has matters far more than many people want to admit. A man with average or slightly below-average size who is confident, attentive, and capable of giving a great performance is going to leave a much better impression than a larger man who doesn't know what he's doing. If size were anywher…	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/06/26 01:55 AM
1	why cant you lust after average men? Nah, you didn’t have to do all that. I was just saying.	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 11:37 PM
2	Women couldn’t even begin to understand what real loneliness is They definitely have the right to make a big deal about it if they want; they just don’t have to make it other people’s problem. Which, of course, they aren't if the discussion is about that, since the people would've willingly joined it.	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 11:35 PM
1	Women couldn’t even begin to understand what real loneliness is Yeah, it’s typically by choice, and for the rare cases that it isn’t, it’s so much smaller in comparison to men’s struggle that it’s a silly point to even make. But I suppose people still will.	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 11:13 PM
3	Women couldn’t even begin to understand what real loneliness is Well, it is a form of loneliness as well. One that women won’t understand, like I said.	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 11:08 PM
4	Why do some of you push this pathetic idea that there are legions of sad sack men who will date practically any woman? That logic doesn't really hold up. People don't automatically get everything they want simply because they want it. Plenty of people want better health, better relationships, more money, or stronger social circles and still struggle to get them. You're also assuming the issue is desire rather than culture. Men are generally socialized differently than women when it comes to emotional intimacy and vulnerability. The fact that men don't commonly build the same support networks doesn't prove they w…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 10:50 PM
4	Women couldn’t even begin to understand what real loneliness is Yeah, but that’s a different type of loneliness. The kind that is caused by a lack of romantic connection can’t really be filled any other way, at least not currently. So yeah, women generally wouldn’t be able to relate to not being able to get any of that.	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 10:43 PM
1	Why are there so many career driven woman that still expect a very wealthy man to provide for their lifestyle with no sacrifice whatsoever? A big part of it is that people don't abandon preferences just because circumstances change. For a long time, women selected men partly based on their ability to provide because that ability had enormous practical value. Women gaining careers and financial independence doesn't automatically erase those preferences overnight. In many cases it just means those preferences become optional rather than necessary. Another factor is that men and women often value different things in partners. Many men …	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 08:03 PM
–	Women’s problem is overestimating the amount of common sense men have. If that’s what you want to think, then sure.	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 06:35 PM
–	Why do girls choose the worst or the best men on earth? A logical reason is visibility bias. Average men are less likely to stand out in stories because nothing about them is extreme enough to become the focus. When the man is rich, powerful, famous, violent, broke, unstable, or visibly dysfunctional, people notice the contrast and build the story around that. Also, women aren't always choosing "the worst men" because they are ugly, boring, or poor. Sometimes those men are available, persistent, familiar, emotionally intense, or good at creating atta…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 06:32 PM
2	why cant you lust after average men? Well, of course, and it's good that you admit that because some women try to downplay how much power women have in dating. If it's not hard to use men or make them useful simply by understanding what motivates them, then you're acknowledging a level of leverage that many people pretend doesn't exist. That's part of why so many men push back when people try to claim dating is equally difficult. If one side can consistently generate attention, interest, favors, dates, relationships, or sex by unde…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 06:18 PM
–	Women’s problem is overestimating the amount of common sense men have. Didn’t say most men did, and I already said who said it. So it’s silly that you keep repeating the same questions. Just drop it, since you aren’t going to read what is actually being said.	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 06:14 PM
–	Women’s problem is overestimating the amount of common sense men have. Who told him it never mattered?! Nobody said attraction literally never mattered. The point is that many men were told it mattered far less than it actually does and that things like personality, kindness, confidence, and being a good partner would largely compensate for a lack of attraction. Such as? First, you claim that feminist and mainstream media told them one thing but now you’re saying they’re listening to all sorts of people. So what was the point of you bringing up feminism in mainstre…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 05:56 PM
3	Why do some of you push this pathetic idea that there are legions of sad sack men who will date practically any woman? That isn't really true, though. Overweight women still have men pursuing them, especially when it comes to casual dating. Many of them also have relationship options. The same thing applies to femcels. A lot of femcels aren't in a position where literally no man wants them. The issue is often that they don't want the men who are available to them, including men who are roughly on their own level. That's why access and quality keep getting mixed together. Having options you don't want is differen…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 04:54 PM
1	Male puberty needs to be celebrated I think you're taking a real observation and stretching it too far. There probably are cultures where girls receive more explicit recognition for certain milestones, especially ones tied to womanhood and fertility. At the same time, many cultures historically had male rites of passage, initiations, apprenticeships, military service, hunting traditions, religious ceremonies, and other ways of recognizing the transition into manhood. So I don't think it's accurate to say boys were simply ignored t…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 04:47 PM
–	Women’s problem is overestimating the amount of common sense men have. That is the issue. A lot of men were told personality mattered most, then later told they should have already known attraction, confidence, and charisma were major factors. Nobody is saying personality doesn't matter. The argument is that many men were given an incomplete picture.	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 04:26 PM
2	why cant you lust after average men? Being silly with that congrats stuff. Anyway most men wanting women doesn't mean most men are incapable of showing restraint or understanding when something is transactional. A man can want women, enjoy the attention for what it is, and still know better than to start throwing money around because of it.	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 04:21 PM
2	Why do some of you push this pathetic idea that there are legions of sad sack men who will date practically any woman? Nobody said they automatically imply each other. The point is that they're related and that having one is generally better than having neither. Also, you're treating "zero romantic options" as a fact rather than an assumption. Just because a woman doesn't want the men pursuing her doesn't mean every single one of those men would refuse commitment. Plenty of relationships start from the same pool of men that women initially classify as sexual options. More importantly, the comparison is usually b…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 04:19 PM
–	Women’s problem is overestimating the amount of common sense men have. No, you're the one adding that implication. There is a huge gap between "not attractive" and "attractive enough to receive special treatment." A man can be attractive enough to date, have relationships, and generate genuine attraction without being attractive enough to get the kind of pretty privilege reserved for the most desirable people. Those aren't the same threshold. The whole point is that attraction isn't binary. Treating it as either "repulsive" or "pretty privilege" skips over a massiv…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 04:14 PM
1	Most people in the dating world are just acting. Some people are definitely presenting a version of themselves that isn't entirely authentic because they know their real personality, habits, or lifestyle won't be nearly as successful in attracting partners. That's especially true when the incentives reward results more than authenticity. For men in particular, there can be pressure to project confidence, charisma, social dominance, ambition, or excitement even when those traits don't come naturally. The dating market doesn't always reward comp…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 04:00 PM
–	If there is no obligations and nobody owes anyone anything. We should go fully, not picking and choosing. Men particularly, Need to simply be selfish and self serving, alot more. Hard to see how they can’t see that at this point. I'm sure they do they just don't care.	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 03:46 PM
2	women choosing terrible men/ choices with full information is one of the oldest documented patterns in human history. Historical fiction books are openly presented as fiction. The Bible is a collection of religious texts that also contains references to real places, cultures, kingdoms, rulers, and historical settings. Those aren't really comparable categories. More importantly, whether you believe the religious claims are true has nothing to do with the point I made. You said it has no historical relevance whatsoever. That's a much stronger claim than saying parts of it are inaccurate or disputed. Those are two…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 03:37 PM
1	Why do some of you push this pathetic idea that there are legions of sad sack men who will date practically any woman? They're still options. They're just not the specific option you're looking for. A woman having multiple men interested in sex, dating, situationships, or commitment is different from a man having none of those things available. Having bad options isn't the same as having no options. Also, not every man pursuing a woman is only interested in casual sex. You're taking the worst category of options and treating it as if it represents the entire pool. Plenty of women reject men who were willing to d…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 03:33 PM
2	why cant you lust after average men? Nah, I've been in there before. I just took the looks, compliments, and attention for what they were and kept it moving. Yeah, for some men that rush can be powerful because they don't get much attention elsewhere. The difference is understanding what's actually happening. Once money becomes part of the equation, a man should already know not to read too much into it or push it any further. A stripper losing interest when the spending stops isn't exactly some shocking revelation. That's the busi…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 03:30 PM
–	Women’s problem is overestimating the amount of common sense men have. Most men aren't so their personality still matters. Nobody said personality doesn't matter. The disagreement is over whether personality gets evaluated before or after attraction. Those are two completely different claims. It conflicts because of the lack of nuance. No, it conflicts because men were often told attraction was far less important than it actually is in practice. That's not a nuance problem, that's a conflicting-message problem. Who told men to not shower, smell like smegma, and dre…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 03:22 PM
4	Why do some of you push this pathetic idea that there are legions of sad sack men who will date practically any woman? That's a terrible example because we're obviously talking about heterosexual dating dynamics. The fact that a man can find another man willing to have sex says nothing about whether women provide average men with the same level of access. Men generally have a much higher willingness to engage in casual sex than women do, so pointing to Grindr doesn't really address the argument. Nobody said sex and romance are identical. The point is that having options matters. Having bad options is different f…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 03:12 PM
2	women choosing terrible men/ choices with full information is one of the oldest documented patterns in human history. It references real places, cultures, kingdoms, rulers, wars, customs, and periods people still study historically. Saying “use actual history” doesn’t answer the point, it just dodges it.	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 03:08 PM
0	Does anyone care that dating is better now for women? I think you're overstating how much women were taught looks didn't matter. Women were told not to be shallow, but that is not the same thing as being taught attraction itself was irrelevant. If anything, a woman's family was more likely to push her toward putting the man's ability to provide in higher regard. Is he stable? Does he work? Can he provide? Is he responsible? Does he come from a decent background? Those messages didn't mean women found average men physically attractive. It meant wome…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 03:00 PM
–	Women’s problem is overestimating the amount of common sense men have. Look up the definition of shallow. Something being shallow doesn't mean people weren't told it was something good men shouldn't prioritize. Those are two completely different arguments. It's always a major factor to men, so he's a hypocrite. Men finding attraction important doesn't mean they automatically know how important women consider attraction relative to all the other advice they were being given. That doesn't make someone a hypocrite. A person whose mindset is still 10 will keep thinking…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 02:47 PM
6	Women have it harder in dating. Yeah, that's kind of the issue with the framing. The hard parts women often point to in relationships are usually hard for men too. Men deal with complacent partners, poor communication, cheating, lack of effort, emotional distance, and failed relationships as well. The difference is that men often have to get through the entire access problem first. They have to pursue, initiate, risk rejection, compete, and create opportunities before they can even get to the relationship stage. Then once the …	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 06:34 AM
–	Women’s problem is overestimating the amount of common sense men have. Well, feminism taught a lot of men that focusing on looks, attraction, status, and similar factors was shallow, while emphasizing things like being nice, respectful, emotionally available, and treating women well. Women reinforced plenty of those messages too. So when some men later discover that attraction is still a major factor, it isn't surprising that they feel misled. Sure, someone can say they should have figured it out themselves, but that ignores the fact that many men were actively bei…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 06:08 AM
3	why cant you lust after average men? Because women, even lower-tier women, generally don't have the same drive. They can lean on the privilege of being desired, so there is little reason to put themselves in the position of having to pursue the way men do. Even if someone wants to call that an inequality, it's usually not one they're concerned about because it works in their favor. If opportunities, attention, compliments, and validation are already coming their way, why would they make things harder on themselves by doing more of …	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 06:00 AM
1	women choosing terrible men/ choices with full information is one of the oldest documented patterns in human history. Yeah, but not to the roughly 2 billion religious people out there who believe otherwise. Regardless, even if someone views Adam and Eve as a story rather than a literal event, people have been using stories, myths, parables, and allegories to illustrate human behavior for thousands of years. Disagreeing with the example doesn't automatically disprove the pattern being discussed.	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 05:53 AM
1	Men dating down If you admittedly didn't read it, then claiming I'm putting words in your mouth doesn't make much sense. You'd have to actually read what was said before you could know whether I misrepresented your position or not. Also, it wasn't a wall of text. It was spaced into separate paragraphs specifically to make it easier to read. If you're choosing not to read it, that's fine, but then don't turn around and confidently tell me what it did or didn't say. If your actual position is that men also date u…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 05:50 AM
1	Antiporn is usually motivated by misandry You're lumping together a lot of different people and assuming they all share the same motivations. Someone believing porn is harmful does not automatically mean they want men to suffer or have no alternatives. The bigger issue is that you're assigning intent without really demonstrating it. It's possible for someone to oppose porn because they believe it's unhealthy while also being wrong about the solution. That doesn't mean their actual goal is to punish men. The double standard argument is t…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 05:48 AM
1	Men dating down Well, you clearly didn't understand it if your response was that I was "ignoring what the man provides" when the entire reason I replied was because you acted as if the woman's attractiveness automatically meant the man was dating up. My point was that if the man is making top-tier money, has status, influence, and success that place him near the top of the hierarchy, then it's completely reasonable to argue he's the one dating down. Simply pointing to the woman's looks doesn't settle the questi…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 05:37 AM
10	Why do some of you push this pathetic idea that there are legions of sad sack men who will date practically any woman? Most people aren't claiming loneliness is exclusive to men. The argument is that men often face a different type of loneliness because they're more likely to struggle with access to romantic opportunities in the first place. A problem can affect both genders without affecting them equally.	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 05:17 AM
1	women choosing terrible men/ choices with full information is one of the oldest documented patterns in human history. Plenty of people exist that believe in it as the word of God, something to the tune of over 2 billion people, so that's quite a lot. Even if someone doesn't believe the religious claims, dismissing it entirely as "not history" ignores that many people view it as containing historical events, places, cultures, kingdoms, and people alongside its spiritual teachings. If you want to engage the actual argument, it makes more sense to address the points being made rather than just hand-wave the source…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 05:08 AM
2	Men dating down Well, if you didn't understand the purpose of what was being said, then this response doesn't make much sense. Anyway, I clearly addressed what was said, so maybe someone else who can understand English will understand what is being said.	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 05:02 AM
9	Men dating down That only works if money and physical attractiveness are the only traits that matter. A man making top-tier money is bringing something that is highly valued to the table, just as a very attractive woman is bringing something highly valued. Calling it "dating up" for the woman while ignoring what the man provides is a pretty selective standard. If a man is making millions, he's not some average guy being carried by a woman's looks. His status, success, influence, lifestyle, competence, and resou…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 04:52 AM
2	why cant you lust after average men? Well, some will do it to entice the man, so the best bet is to just take the compliments and seductive looks, enjoy the moment for what it is, and carry on without opening his wallet. No reason the man can't take the confidence boost and go about his day. Opening the wallet is an L for sure.	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 04:43 AM
3	Women have it harder in dating. That doesn't really address the point. If compatibility is rare, having more opportunities still helps because you have more chances to find that rare compatible person. The average man is often searching for compatibility from a much smaller pool while dealing with many of the same relationship risks. Having 100 bad options isn't the same as having 100 good options, but it's still very different from having 5 options. Scarcity makes finding compatibility harder, not easier. The only way an argu…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 03:48 AM
1	Women have it harder in dating. Men take on risks too, just different ones. Men often have to create opportunities from scratch, face rejection, compete with other men, invest time and resources, and still risk ending up in bad relationships. Women generally face greater physical and safety risks, but men often face many of the same relationship risks while also having to generate opportunities in the first place. That's why the average man's dating experience is often harder overall: women are usually dealing with selection p…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 03:04 AM
2	It is infantilizing to women to say that women who have drunk alcohol cannot consent to sex, while nothing is said about men who drank alcohol Nah, the tendency to villainize the man is still very much there. People may be more willing now to acknowledge that adults can consent after drinking, but the moment something goes wrong, there's still often a strong push to view the woman as having reduced agency while placing greater responsibility on the man. That's why I don't think this is just a 2010s thing. The underlying mindset never really went away. It just gets expressed a little differently now.	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 02:33 AM
10	Women have it harder in dating. Yeah, and even when women find themselves struggling, it's often because they don't like the opportunities available to them rather than because there are no opportunities. A woman can be significantly overweight, average-looking, older, or have other disadvantages and still usually find men willing to date her within her league. The issue is often that those men aren't exciting enough, attractive enough, or don't meet her preferred standard. The opportunity is there, she just doesn't want it. F…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 02:26 AM
3	Women have it harder in dating. Yeah, but having fewer options creates its own problem. It's not just about digging through more hay. If you have very few opportunities to begin with, you may spend years trying to find someone only to discover you're not compatible anyway. Then you're back at square one. That's why abundance has value. More options don't guarantee success, but they do increase the chances of finding someone who is actually a good fit. With very limited options, every mistake is far more costly because replacin…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 02:19 AM
9	Does anyone care that dating is better now for women? I think you're overstating both how widespread that was and how complete the change has been. Women have always cared about attraction. The idea that women spent generations being largely indifferent to the looks of the men they dated just doesn't line up with reality. Attraction may not have been weighted as heavily as it is today, but that doesn't mean it wasn't present. The bigger issue is that you're treating this as though women simply started valuing attraction and that's the whole story. …	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/06/26 02:15 AM
5	Women have it harder in dating. I think you're massively underestimating how much easier women have it at the starting point, and that advantage carries through the rest of the process. Of course it's not sunshine and rainbows. Women absolutely deal with bad actors, liars, manipulators, and men pretending to be something they're not. Nobody is denying that. The problem is that men have to deal with those same risks while also solving the initial problem of finding someone in the first place. Men don't get to skip the filtering…	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/06/26 11:08 PM
1	If there is no obligations and nobody owes anyone anything. We should go fully, not picking and choosing. Men particularly, Need to simply be selfish and self serving, alot more. The strongest part of the argument is the consistency challenge. A lot of modern discussions do lean heavily on individualism when men's problems are brought up. If a man is lonely, struggling in dating, or unsuccessful with women, he's often told that nobody owes him attraction, sex, or a relationship. On its face, that's true. The question the post raises is whether that same individualistic framework is applied consistently elsewhere. For example, society often expects men to care about issue…	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/06/26 10:50 PM
1	Is a man being nerdy a turn off? It depends how attractive she finds him in the first place. If he isn't really her type, then traits like being hardworking, kind, stable, and responsible may not be enough on their own. He'll often have to excel in those areas to overcome the lack of attraction. If she's older and comes with a lot of baggage herself, that's where things can change. At that point, a man checking a good number of important boxes can outweigh the fact that he's a bit nerdy or collects Star Wars figures. That's why…	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/06/26 10:21 PM
10	Does anyone care that dating is better now for women? I think you're taking my agreement on one point and extending it much further than I did. I agree that attraction matters and that women shouldn't date men they're not attracted to. What I don't agree with is the assumption that women in the past largely weren't attracted to their partners and that modern dating has therefore produced better outcomes. Saying past generations placed less emphasis on attraction is not the same as saying attraction was absent. Women have always cared about attracti…	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/06/26 10:12 PM
23	Does anyone care that dating is better now for women? The problem with this argument is that it assumes the only thing that changed was women making better choices. A lot of men would agree that women should date men they are actually attracted to. The disagreement is whether standards have become more realistic or less realistic due to modern dating apps, social media, and unprecedented access to attention. You say women used to date men they weren't attracted to, but the reverse was true as well. Plenty of average men and average women paired up …	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/06/26 05:49 PM
1	Are men who gossip or make fun of others generally considered attractive to women? Yeah, this post was more about actual bullying and publicly putting someone down, not playful joking around with friends.	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/06/26 05:41 PM
1	A lot of men are constantly contradicting themselves when they shame a woman for doing OF or being a porn star These analogies don't really work. Buying or watching something doesn't mean you respect the industry, respect the work, or think the people doing it made good life choices. People consume things they criticize all the time. That may be imperfect, but it isn't automatically a contradiction. The coffee example is weak because making coffee is not controversial in the same way. Nobody thinks being a barista changes how people view your values, sexual boundaries, privacy, or reputation. Porn and OF…	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/06/26 07:16 AM
1	Are men who gossip or make fun of others generally considered attractive to women? I think you're reducing it too much to humor. A shared sense of humor definitely matters, but social dominance and status have been intertwined with humor for a very long time. The class clown, the guy who controls the conversation, the guy who can make everyone laugh at someone else's expense, and the guy who wins verbal exchanges often gain social standing from it. If it were only about humor, then women would react the same way regardless of who was delivering the joke. In reality, the social…	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/06/26 06:41 AM
1	Are men who gossip or make fun of others generally considered attractive to women? Yeah, some women are definitely attracted to men who can dominate social situations, and that can sometimes include teasing, roasting, or verbally putting another man in his place. I think the attraction is usually less about the insult itself and more about what it signals. If the man is confident, socially sharp, quick-witted, and able to control the frame of an interaction, some women will find that attractive because it demonstrates social competence and status. The mistake is assuming women…	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/06/26 10:44 PM
2	Most people need to experience casual sex, especially men. I think you're separating them a little too much. For men, it's probably best to pursue both and not let either get out of control. Confidence is obviously important, but having some ego isn't necessarily a bad thing either, especially in dating where men are often expected to approach, risk rejection, and put themselves out there. I also don't think all validation is inherently temporary. If a man spends years wondering whether he's desirable and then finally achieves that, the confidence gaine…	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/06/26 10:35 PM
1	Most people need to experience casual sex, especially men. Yeah, it doesn’t mean much to everyone, especially if they are a person who can easily get it and never had much issue. For the men who have to fight for it, they could have a different story.	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/06/26 10:31 PM
2	A lot of men are constantly contradicting themselves when they shame a woman for doing OF or being a porn star Well, that's usually where the criticism is coming from in the first place. Most of the people criticizing porn stars or OF creators aren't saying they're bad because they're sexually unattractive. They're saying they don't view that lifestyle as compatible with what they want in a long-term partner. That's why I don't think it's a perfect contradiction. Someone can enjoy the content while still believing the behavior would make a poor girlfriend or wife in their eyes. Whether that standard is f…	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/06/26 10:28 PM
5	Do women value past investment into a relationship? And do they feel relationship nostalgia? The biggest logical flaw is that it assumes women either value shared history or live entirely in the moment. Reality is usually somewhere in between. If women only cared about dopamine and novelty, long-term relationships, marriages, anniversaries, family traditions, nostalgia, and heartbreak after breakups would be much harder to explain. Clearly many women do value shared experiences, memories, trust, familiarity, and years invested together. At the same time, shared history is not an unlimit…	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/06/26 05:32 PM
1	How to understand what is your league? Yeah, and there are a lot of factors that could explain it. He may have had money, status, social skills, confidence, or some other trait that increased his attractiveness. I also think women can be pretty bad at judging relative attractiveness sometimes, especially when comparing themselves to men. Many don't account for things like makeup, styling, filters, and other enhancements that significantly affect how they're perceived. That's why I don't think it's as simple as saying, "He was beneath…	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/06/26 05:06 PM
4	A lot of men are constantly contradicting themselves when they shame a woman for doing OF or being a porn star Nah, it makes sense that they wouldn't support it beyond watching it. They're there for their own pleasure, not because they admire or respect the people involved. A man can consume porn and still not view a porn star or OF creator as someone he'd want as a long-term partner. Those are two different standards. People often enjoy things recreationally that they wouldn't want in a spouse, girlfriend, or even in their personal life. So I don't think it's necessarily a contradiction. Finding someone…	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/06/26 05:01 PM
4	Most people need to experience casual sex, especially men. I think that's where we disagree. Something can absolutely be a major contributor to a person's self-esteem without becoming a problem. Most people's self-esteem is heavily influenced by things like relationships, career success, competence, achievements, respect from others, and whether they feel desired. The issue isn't that it makes up a large portion of their self-esteem. The issue is whether they're constantly chasing more of it because they never feel satisfied. If a man has already achiev…	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/06/26 04:52 PM
3	It is infantilizing to women to say that women who have drunk alcohol cannot consent to sex, while nothing is said about men who drank alcohol Yeah, society generally favors women in this area more because the man is usually viewed as being in the power position. If alcohol is involved, people are far more likely to assume the woman was vulnerable and the man was responsible for managing the situation. That's the part that creates the double standard. The consistent standard should be impairment, not gender. If someone is too impaired to consent, that should apply to both men and women. If someone is only buzzed and still capable of ma…	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/06/26 03:01 AM
0	Most people need to experience casual sex, especially men. Yeah, but that's kind of the point. Even if most women aren't having a lot of casual sex, most women at least have the ability to make it happen if they decide they want to. For a lot of men, that option simply doesn't exist regardless of what they want. They can improve their social skills, expand their social circle, get in shape, and become less uptight, but there are still plenty of men who will never have the same level of access. That's why the experiences aren't really symmetrical. A woma…	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/06/26 02:23 AM
4	Most people need to experience casual sex, especially men. I think you're taking a reasonable point and pushing it too far. Sure, if someone constantly needs external validation and can never get enough of it, that's a problem. Nobody is arguing that endless casual sex magically fixes insecurity. The issue is that people often act as if external validation has no value at all, which doesn't make much sense either. Confidence is built from experiences, feedback, achievements, and results. Most people don't develop self-esteem entirely in isolation. By th…	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/06/26 02:17 AM
1	What’s the most controversial negative opinion you have about your own gender? Yeah, of course, but that's easier said than done. A lot of men don't get to simply choose the passenger whenever they want. First they have to build the car, learn how to drive it, and convince someone to get in. That's where most of the work is. I agree that a man should build a life for himself first, but it's understandable why some men become frustrated when they spend years improving just to get opportunities that other people seem to receive by default. That doesn't mean they should stay …	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/06/26 02:12 AM
4	Most people need to experience casual sex, especially men. For many men, it's important because attraction and desire are often not things they experience by default. A man can spend years improving himself, building a career, becoming more confident, and getting into relationships, yet still wonder whether he was genuinely desired or simply chosen because he was a good long-term option. Experiencing genuine desire removes a lot of that uncertainty. It gives him proof that someone wanted him physically, not just for his stability, commitment, resources,…	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/06/26 09:52 PM
13	Red pill men have double standard about knowledge The flaw here is that the two claims are not equal. Men saying women often don't understand the male dating experience is based on the fact that most women don't have to approach, initiate, face constant rejection, build themselves up just to become visible, or create opportunities from nothing. They usually interact with men after those men have already done the work to become attractive or confident enough to be noticed. That is not the same as men observing what women choose. A man doesn't ha…	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/06/26 09:45 PM
4	Most people need to experience casual sex, especially men. Confidence and ego aren't the same thing. The post is literally talking about men wanting to feel desired and chosen at least once in their lives. For a lot of men, that's not about becoming arrogant. It's about proving to themselves they're actually capable of attracting someone. Women often underestimate this because many receive romantic or sexual interest by default. For men, especially average men, being desired can be a rare experience. So yes, for some men it can be a significant confiden…	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/06/26 09:28 PM
3	A lot of the things that red pillers attribute to "female nature" are just them not respecting average numales enough I think you're underestimating where some of that bitterness comes from. For a lot of men, the issue isn't that they expected effortless success. It's that they feel they had to put in a tremendous amount of work just to get attention from women on their own level or sometimes even below it. Whether that frustration is justified is a separate question, but that's often where it comes from. I also don't think every criticism of dating dynamics should be dismissed as bitterness. Some men are bitte…	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/06/26 09:23 PM
3	Men have to approach. Yeah, unfortunately men have to do that because it's one of those unequal dating dynamics that people largely accept. Women may dislike being approached by the wrong men, but there isn't much interest in changing a system where men are still expected to take most of the initiative. The reality is that a lot of men aren't going to end up in relationships through passive attraction alone. If they don't approach, flirt, escalate, or create opportunities, some may go years without anything happening…	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/06/26 07:00 PM
2	Women suck at simping Yeah, but remember I'm talking about men with real options, not average men. A lot of those men will have no trouble finding women who stick around, especially if they're willing to date average women or below. That's actually where I think people overestimate the difficulty. You're right that a woman can't force commitment from a man who fundamentally doesn't want to commit. My point is that when a man has enough options, there will usually still be plenty of women willing to stay involved desp…	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/06/26 06:41 PM
2	Men have to approach. Yeah, the context would matter a lot, especially if it's a white person saying it to a black one. Otherwise, it's generally not seen as that big of a deal.	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/06/26 06:35 PM
5	A lot of the things that red pillers attribute to "female nature" are just them not respecting average numales enough The problem with that criticism is that it assumes any discussion of attraction, status, or dating dynamics must come from entitlement. A man can acknowledge that attraction isn't equal, that some men have advantages over others, and that women respond to certain traits more than others without believing women owe him anything. Pointing out that value matters isn't the same thing as being angry that value matters. Those are two completely different things. The other issue is that some people use…	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/06/26 06:23 PM
2	A guy can be attractive to women regardless of whether he’s actually a good person. Yeah, society has often tried to frame dating success as primarily a reward for being a good person, even though reality is clearly more complicated than that. Part of the reason discussions like this become controversial is because people are generally more comfortable talking about men's superficial preferences than women's. Pointing out that status, confidence, attractiveness, or social success can matter a lot to women often gets more pushback because some people interpret it as an attack on…	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/06/26 06:19 PM
2	Have you ever asked yourself why the patriarchy and hypergamy exists and why were they created? I think that's a much stronger argument than simply saying patriarchy existed because men wanted to oppress women. Power can absolutely be abused. Give any group enough unchecked authority and some people will use it selfishly, maliciously, or irresponsibly. That's true of men, women, governments, religions, corporations, or any other institution. The only thing I'd push back on is the idea that abuse proves the original purpose of the system. A system can emerge for practical reasons and still …	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/06/26 06:13 PM
2	Women suck at simping I don't think you read my point very closely. My argument wasn't that these men are secretly searching for the right woman and failing to find her. My argument was that once a man reaches a position where he has a lot of options, he may simply decide that committing to one woman isn't worth giving up the others. Calling him a player doesn't really address that point. You're just attaching a label to the behavior. A man choosing none of his options is still making a choice. The reason he can make…	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/06/26 06:09 PM
2	A lot of the things that red pillers attribute to "female nature" are just them not respecting average numales enough The bigger point is that your examples don't actually refute the red pill position, they reinforce it. Red pill has never argued that women are incapable of loyalty, sacrifice, forgiveness, or being ride or die. Your own examples show women can go to extraordinary lengths for certain men, sometimes even to their own detriment. The disagreement has always been about who receives that treatment. If women were equally loyal and sacrificial toward men in general, your examples wouldn't need to focus…	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/06/26 06:18 AM
–	The "patriarchy" didn't teach men to hide their feelings. Life did. I think you're mixing two separate claims together. I don't disagree that many women throughout history were treated badly, punished for breaking norms, or denied opportunities. That's all true. The part I'm questioning is whether that automatically tells us why those systems originally emerged. A system can produce unfair outcomes and still have been created in response to practical concerns at the time. Those aren't mutually exclusive. I'd also be careful about framing it as society versus wom…	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/06/26 05:00 AM
2	Have you ever asked yourself why the patriarchy and hypergamy exists and why were they created? The funny thing is that if patriarchy was primarily a system built around survival, inheritance, resource management, and ensuring the next generation was provided for, then that directly undermines the idea that it was just some giant conspiracy by men to oppress women. A lot of modern people look at historical societies through a modern lens and assume men sat around thinking of ways to control women. In reality, most people were trying not to starve, get killed, lose their land, or watch thei…	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/06/26 03:29 AM
2	Men who are successful, high earners, or providers— I have a debatable question Oh, okay, you wanted to let me know twice. Anyway, yeah, this can definitely be the case. It’s not a good deal, though; it’s way too restrictive.	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/06/26 02:48 AM
2	Men who are successful, high earners, or providers— I have a debatable question Yeah, it's basically one of the few situations where the game flips. Most women don't really have to do much at all to get options and leverage in dating, whereas very few men ever reach that position without years of work and self-improvement. That's why I don't really see it as a problem. If a man reaches a level where he has more leverage than the average woman, he's usually earned a position that is far rarer for men than it is for women. At that point, it's not surprising if he becomes more…	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/06/26 02:43 AM
2	Women suck at simping Not really an issue either way, and it shouldn't automatically be viewed as something bad since men generally have to earn that position in most cases. If a man has spent years building himself up to the point where he has multiple options, it's not surprising that he becomes more selective or less eager to immediately commit. That's largely the same logic people use to explain why women become more selective when they have more options, except women often receive those options by default rather…	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/06/26 02:28 AM
2	Men who are successful, high earners, or providers— I have a debatable question Yeah, that's still a pretty weak arrangement since he's having to sneak around and pretend. I suppose it's better than nothing, but it's not exactly a position of strength either. You also don't get much real variety out of it. In most cases the wife is only going to tolerate so much before it becomes a serious problem, so it often ends up being one long-term mistress rather than the guy having the kind of variety people imagine. That's why these arrangements are often less open than they appear…	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/06/26 02:21 AM
1	Women suck at simping Well of course. Women generally don't really have to do much at all in dating compared to men, so many don't know what to do when they're suddenly put in the position men are usually in. When a woman is dealing with a man who has real options, sex alone may not be enough to make him stay, just like a man spending money and time isn't enough to make a woman sleep with him. That's where some women seem to get thrown off. They're used to being the selector rather than the one doing the pursuing. On…	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/06/26 07:21 PM
7	Men who are successful, high earners, or providers— I have a debatable question Yeah, a man making enough money to provide a genuinely great life is already in a position very few men ever reach. If a man has built himself into someone capable of providing a great life, that's an accomplishment that very few people, male or female, ever achieve. Society recognizes rewards and privileges for exceptional performance in almost every area of life, so it's not surprising that some men feel that should translate into greater relationship leverage as well. The biggest challenge us…	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/06/26 06:26 PM
7	Red Pill men trust their self-motivated inccorrect observations of women more than women's own explanations. The main problem with this take is that it assumes women’s self-descriptions are automatically more accurate than men’s observations of women’s behavior. Women talking about what they want is useful, but it is not the final truth by itself. People are not always fully honest, fully self-aware, or accurate about what actually attracts them. That applies to men and women. What someone says they want and what they consistently respond to are not always the same thing. Also, this framing acts like R…	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/06/26 06:18 PM
11	Why do men believe they peak in their 50s? Because they're usually not talking about pure physical attractiveness. Most men know they aren't physically peaking in their 50s. A fit 25-year-old man is generally going to look better than that same man at 55. The argument is usually that men can continue increasing their overall dating value for much longer than women can. By their 50s, some men have more money, status, confidence, experience, social skills, career success, and stability than they had at 25. Since many women care about those…	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/06/26 06:11 PM
2	Women’s Selectivity Is a Major Cause of the Orgasm Gap in Casual Sex That's not what I said. I didn't say men are shitty because they bought a meal and flowers. I said that if men are repeatedly told they need to earn sex through self-improvement, effort, status, confidence, persistence, and proving themselves, then it's not surprising that some of them start viewing sex as a reward. You're also reducing the argument to meals and flowers when I was talking about years of effort and the broader messaging men receive about dating. Ideally, sex is something two peop…	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/06/26 06:07 PM
2	Women’s Selectivity Is a Major Cause of the Orgasm Gap in Casual Sex That actually reinforces the experience argument rather than disproving it. A young inexperienced guy is far more likely to be nervous, overly excited, misread cues, or simply not know what he's doing yet. Experience matters in most skills, and sex isn't magically exempt from that. You're also combining different categories of men into one. A guy who finishes quickly because he's inexperienced is not the same thing as a guy who doesn't care about his partner's experience. One is often a lack of …	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/06/26 06:03 PM
2	Women’s Selectivity Is a Major Cause of the Orgasm Gap in Casual Sex Plenty of women absolutely do frame sex as a reward, just not always in those exact words. How often do men hear things like "if he treats you right," "if he earns it," "if he proves himself," "if he steps up," "if he does what he's supposed to do," or "don't give it away too easily"? That's reward language. The entire concept is often built around a man qualifying for access through his behavior. The chores example isn't really what I'm talking about. Most men understand that doing the dishes d…	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/06/26 06:00 PM
–	Most men are not special enough to be having a selfish nasty attitude. That's the biggest scam of the redpill. Tricking guys to thinking they have a chance to be Chad. I don't think that's really what most men take away from it. Most men already know they're probably never going to be Chad. The appeal is usually the idea that they can improve their position relative to where they started, not that they'll become the top 1% of men. Some men refuse to be humbled and they join redpill groups to hate on women for not giving them the special treatment they think they de…	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/06/26 05:56 PM
1	It's always considered men responsibility to make women feel safe around them. That doesn't really solve the problem though. Calling something parasitic already assumes a specific relationship where one side is feeding off the other at the other's expense. That's the part that's being debated. You can say the behavior is unconscious. You can say it's driven by biology. You can say it's driven by incentives. None of that automatically proves it's parasitic. A parasite analogy only works if you've already demonstrated that validation-seeking attention is equivalent to exploi…	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/06/26 05:52 PM
2	Women’s Selectivity Is a Major Cause of the Orgasm Gap in Casual Sex I think we're talking about two slightly different things. What I was getting at is that some women themselves frame sex as the reward. Men are often told they need to improve, earn more, become more confident, become more attractive, and prove themselves before they're worthy of access to it. If that's the framing, then it shouldn't be surprising that some men end up treating sex like a reward they've earned. In most areas of life, when someone works hard for a reward, the expectation is that t…	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/06/26 05:31 AM
1	It's always considered men responsibility to make women feel safe around them. This is still assuming the conclusion. People unconsciously enjoying validation is one thing. Calling it unconscious exploitation is another. At that point you've already decided what's happening before proving it. I think "people respond to incentives and enjoy validation" explains most of the behavior without needing the exploitation label.	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/06/26 05:22 AM
2	Women’s Selectivity Is a Major Cause of the Orgasm Gap in Casual Sex I think some men not caring is actually part of the explanation, but I don't think it comes out of nowhere. If a man feels like he had to spend years improving himself, approach repeatedly, handle rejection, compete with other men, and jump through endless hoops just to get an opportunity, it's not surprising that some of them end up viewing sex as the reward they earned. In that mindset, the focus shifts more toward receiving the reward than maximizing someone else's experience. That doesn't ma…	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/06/26 04:38 AM
4	What’s the most controversial negative opinion you have about your own gender? I didnt say it did but regardless it does make sense since most women have that leverage over most men in dating.	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/06/26 04:25 AM
1	It's always considered men responsibility to make women feel safe around them. I think we're just at different levels of explanation. You're treating the behavior as an unavoidable biological outcome. I'm saying you don't need to go that far. Once one side is more selective than the other, attention, validation, and effort naturally become valuable commodities. The incentives are already built into the system. People don't need to consciously decide to seek validation for validation-seeking behavior to emerge. If attention is valuable and abundant, many people will enjoy i…	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/06/26 04:23 AM
–	Men dating younger women may be the only option left. Not really. Women of all ages can be attracted to a man's looks, personality, status, lifestyle, resources, or any combination of those things. If a younger woman liking what a man provides means he's getting crumbs, then you'd have to apply that same logic to a huge percentage of relationships. Most people aren't loved for one trait alone. The bigger point is that if a man spent years building himself up, he's probably going to pursue the women he finds most attractive rather than making his de…	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/06/26 04:05 AM
2	What’s the most controversial negative opinion you have about your own gender? Yeah, currently, unless a man wants to just watch porn or play with toys, there is no real alternative. Let’s be honest, that isn’t the same as being with a woman. So until they get that figured out, it does make some sense from the male side for sure, given men’s sex drives and all.	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/06/26 03:39 AM
–	Most men are not special enough to be having a selfish nasty attitude. That's kind of the point though. Men are constantly reminded they aren't special. Most men grow up learning very quickly that attraction isn't guaranteed, attention isn't guaranteed, and that if they want results they usually have to improve, compete, and put themselves out there. Reality tends to humble men whether they like it or not. Women can run into reality too, but because attention is generally easier to come by, it's often possible for some women to maintain an inflated view of their da…	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/06/26 12:45 AM
1	Women have little intent. I think there's some truth to that, but I don't think it's because women are incapable of being intentional. A lot of women can afford to be more reactive because dating opportunities come to them more easily. If you're constantly receiving attention, invitations, and romantic interest, there's less pressure to think several steps ahead than there is for the average man. That's why you'll sometimes hear women say they weren't looking for a relationship, weren't planning to date a certain guy, or…	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/06/26 12:12 AM
4	Dating the ugly girl won't save you. Yeah, this is true for both sexes. Society is, of course, quicker to tell men that.	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/06/26 12:07 AM
1	Dating the ugly girl won't save you. Yeah, you’ll hear that more toward women because women are generally pickier and more likely to aim above their league, especially in dating apps and online spaces. So telling women to “give average guys a chance” usually comes from the fact that many average men are basically invisible to women who see them as beneath their options. That’s different from telling men to date unattractive women just for the sake of lowering standards. Also, saying beauty doesn’t guarantee good character is true. …	/r/PurplePillDebate	12/06/26 10:58 PM
5	It's always considered men responsibility to make women feel safe around them. I think you're overcomplicating it. You don't need to assume some grand conspiracy or that women are consciously trying to keep men auditioning for approval. A lot of this can be explained through incentives. Women are generally the more selective sex, so attention has value in the dating market. Because of that, some women enjoy attention even from men they have no intention of dating. Men do similar things in areas where they have leverage too. The more interesting point is that there can be a…	/r/PurplePillDebate	12/06/26 10:52 PM
19	It's always considered men responsibility to make women feel safe around them. The logical issue is that people can't have it both ways. If women are saying men are potential threats, they can't easily tell the good ones from the bad ones, and men approaching can make them uncomfortable, then men choosing not to approach should be seen as a reasonable response. It becomes contradictory when men are told to respect women's fear and caution, but then are also expected to be outgoing, socially confident, approachable, and willing to take the risk of initiating. You can't tell…	/r/PurplePillDebate	12/06/26 08:39 PM
–	Past what age women are no longer attractive to you? Basically all the way into their 60s for me if they really take care of themselves. As far as who I find most attractive, probably women in their 20s. I don't really see why that's supposed to be controversial. Most people have an age range they find most attractive. Nothing is wrong with a preference staying in the 20s either, despite how some people try to make it sound. Attraction isn't a democracy. People like what they like, and women are rarely told their preferences are immoral just becau…	/r/PurplePillDebate	12/06/26 08:30 PM
5	Dating the ugly girl won't save you. Yeah, funny enough that's the exact same logic women use when people tell them to just lower their standards or date less attractive men. Women will immediately point out that less attractive men can still cheat, lie, be abusive, be lazy, or be bad partners. They don't assume character improves just because attractiveness decreases. So if that logic is valid for women, it should also be valid for men. Simply dating someone less attractive doesn't automatically solve compatibility or relationship…	/r/PurplePillDebate	12/06/26 06:52 PM
2	Women’s Selectivity Is a Major Cause of the Orgasm Gap in Casual Sex You could also argue that some men may view sex as the reward itself. A lot of messaging aimed at men basically tells them they need to work, pursue, impress, spend, perform, and prove themselves in order to gain access to sex. If a man internalizes that framework, he may become more focused on finally obtaining the reward he worked for than on maximizing his partner's experience. That doesn't mean it's the right attitude, but incentives matter. If someone feels like they've spent weeks, months,…	/r/PurplePillDebate	12/06/26 06:29 PM
5	Q4W: If you were giving basic life and dating advice to a man you cared about, what would you tell him to maximise his chances of happiness in relationships with women? To be fair, society did lie to men about that for a long time. A lot of men were told that if they were just nice, respectful, and a good person, attraction and relationships would naturally follow. I agree that nobody is entitled to romantic interest. Someone can be a genuinely good person and still get rejected. That's just reality. The problem is that some people jump from "being good doesn't guarantee attraction" to "anyone who expected it was never a good person." Those aren't the same thin…	/r/PurplePillDebate	12/06/26 06:45 AM
3	Men fail to understand that women want to be chosen, not settled for. Yeah, it's definitely a factor for some men. A lot of people underestimate how powerful the male sex drive can be. For some men it's not just a passing thought. It can be something they're dealing with throughout the day on top of loneliness, rejection, and wanting a relationship. As for Christianity, I don't disagree that many Christian men fight those urges. What I've noticed though is that a lot of people talk as if they're only resisting temptation when in reality they've already given in pl…	/r/PurplePillDebate	12/06/26 06:38 AM
1	Men dating younger women may be the only option left. I'm talking about both. Of course men can leave relationships whenever they want. Nobody said otherwise. The point is that men are often criticized for the standards and evaluations they use when deciding whether to stay or leave. If a woman says a man isn't adding enough to her life, people usually accept that. If a man says a woman is a net drain on his life and isn't bringing enough value to justify the relationship, the reaction is often much harsher. So yes, men should absolutely make decis…	/r/PurplePillDebate	12/06/26 06:07 AM
1	Men dating younger women may be the only option left. Men even pointing that out is often where the problem starts. A woman can openly say a man isn't adding enough to her life, isn't ambitious enough, doesn't make enough money, isn't attractive enough, or isn't meeting her standards, and that's usually viewed as having preferences. A man saying a woman is a drain on his life, doesn't bring enough value, or isn't worth the investment is much more likely to be called misogynistic, insecure, or entitled. So of course men shouldn't stay in relationshi…	/r/PurplePillDebate	12/06/26 05:15 AM
2	Men dating younger women may be the only option left. I don't think those statistics necessarily contradict the argument. Most women dating men close to their own age doesn't automatically mean they aren't attracted to traits that are more common in older men. It may simply mean most people date within their social circles, age groups, schools, workplaces, and communities. Also, when people say women like established men, they usually aren't saying young women refuse to date young men. Plenty of young women date broke students and recent graduates.…	/r/PurplePillDebate	12/06/26 05:09 AM
6	Are women really don't like male attention only because of safety issues? Yeah, that's probably a big part of it. I think safety concerns are real, but attraction plays a role that people are often reluctant to acknowledge. The exact same approach can be perceived very differently depending on who is doing it. If a woman finds someone attractive, socially competent, and non-threatening, behavior that might be seen as charming or flattering from one person can be viewed as creepy or unwelcome from another. That's true for men and women. That's why I don't think the ans…	/r/PurplePillDebate	12/06/26 02:22 AM
5	Q4W: If you were giving basic life and dating advice to a man you cared about, what would you tell him to maximise his chances of happiness in relationships with women? If I were giving advice to a man, I'd tell him to focus on becoming the best version of himself rather than obsessing over dating. Get in shape, build a career, develop social skills, make friends, and create a life you genuinely enjoy. Those things improve your chances with women, but more importantly, they improve your life even if dating isn't going well. I'd also tell him not to believe that being a good person alone is enough. Kindness matters, but attraction matters too. Looks, confidence,…	/r/PurplePillDebate	12/06/26 02:09 AM
2	Do you believe women should cater more to men/be less selective? I get that women do have challenges, but attention isn't one of them for the vast majority of women. A woman tried making this exact argument last week and was acting like women basically have to be near-models before they get any meaningful attention. That's just not reality. Plenty of below-average women get attention, dates, matches, compliments, and men willing to take them seriously. I think where the disconnect happens is that some women don't count men they're not attracted to as options.…	/r/PurplePillDebate	12/06/26 01:56 AM
2	Men dating younger women may be the only option left. Well at the end of the day it's preferences. Some men value youth and physical attractiveness more, while others value life experience, maturity, or accomplishments more. The bigger point is that it should be his choice. If a man spent years doing the work to improve himself, I don't see why he should be told his preferences are wrong. He earned the ability to pursue the kind of woman he finds most appealing. For you, that happens to be an older woman who has grown and developed alongside you. F…	/r/PurplePillDebate	12/06/26 01:07 AM
4	Men fail to understand that women want to be chosen, not settled for. Yeah, we mostly agree then. The only thing I'd add is that improving yourself is hard in general, but it can be even harder for men because they're often trying to do it while dealing with a strong sex drive and a lack of dating success at the same time. Some men are thinking about women all day long, dealing with rejection, loneliness, and frustration while still being told to keep grinding for years before seeing results. That's one reason I think some women underestimate the difficulty. It's …	/r/PurplePillDebate	12/06/26 12:59 AM
2	Do you believe women should cater more to men/be less selective? Yeah, women do face challenges in dating. I wasn't saying they don't. What I was mainly saying is that the challenges are different and, in my view, generally not as difficult as the ones men face when it comes to getting attention, initiating, handling rejection, and creating opportunities in the first place. I also think there's a difference between saying women don't face challenges and saying women don't face the same challenges. A lot of this conversation gets stuck because people hear the …	/r/PurplePillDebate	12/06/26 12:53 AM
–	What do you think about young men feeling abandoned and demonised by left? I agree they're different claims. My point is that perception doesn't develop in a vacuum. If large numbers of young men repeatedly say they feel blamed, I think it's worth asking why that perception exists rather than assuming it's simply a misunderstanding. I also don't think intent and impact are always the same thing. A message can be intended as criticism of specific behaviors, but if the people hearing it consistently walk away feeling singled out, that's still something worth examining. S…	/r/PurplePillDebate	12/06/26 12:48 AM
–	The 50/50 Rule: Reclaiming Men’s Self-Respect and Autonomy. Yeah, the thing is male companionship can't really fulfill that, nor can current-day AI. They can help around the edges, but for most men they don't replace having an actual romantic partner or feeling desired by a woman. Of course men need to have more self-respect and be willing to walk away from bad deals. The problem is they're playing a game at a disadvantage because women are the more selective sex. That's also why I don't think this gets "solved" anytime soon. A lot of people talk about e…	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/06/26 06:42 PM
0	Men dating younger women may be the only option left. Well women of all ages are like that to some extent. So it's best for a man to go for who he likes, especially since he had to work for it. If he spent years improving himself to get better options, why should he suddenly care whether a 25-year-old or a 45-year-old is attracted to him for more than his looks? Women aren't typically choosing men on looks alone either. At that point, if the attraction is mutual and both people are getting what they want out of it, I don't really see the issue. Esp…	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/06/26 06:35 PM
3	Men fail to understand that women want to be chosen, not settled for. Yeah sure, but it's still very hard to do regardless. Telling someone to spend years improving doesn't magically make those years easy. Also, by your logic, you must be calling a lot of women losers too, because women criticize men's standards all the time. Men get called shallow for wanting younger women, insecure for caring about body count, unrealistic for wanting attractive women, and judgmental for excluding certain groups from their dating pool. So I agree that people who improve themselve…	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/06/26 06:32 PM
3	Do you believe women should cater more to men/be less selective? That doesn't really address what I said. My point wasn't that men will commit to anyone. It was that women are generally the more selective sex overall, which affects the dating experience from the very beginning. Whether men become more selective for commitment doesn't change the fact that most men face far more difficulty getting opportunities in the first place.	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/06/26 06:28 PM
1	When feminist women deny blatant redpill truths, like being a nice person alone won’t get you laid. It really pulls into question the integrity of what ALL women say. As if women are prepared to lie just to uphold their ideological beliefs. Sure you brought this up in the OP, but I'm explaining the reason behind it a better. Anyway I believe that's because blue pill men are usually forced to engage with dating realities more directly. A lot of blue pill men will eventually admit things like looks matter, confidence matters, women are selective, being nice alone isn't enough, and men generally have a harder time getting dates. They may disagree on the explanations, but they'll often concede the observations. With blue pill women, it…	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/06/26 06:19 PM
2	Most people don’t want to be around someone with a victim complex, You're kind of proving my point. I said people can identify issues affecting men without believing men are victims 24/7, and your response was to assume most men bringing up men's issues are really just bitching about women. That's exactly the type of dismissive framing that causes the disconnect in the first place. Identifying a problem isn't the same thing as refusing to acknowledge women's problems. Those are two separate discussions. The fact that some men blame women for everything doesn't …	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/06/26 06:14 PM
–	What do you think about young men feeling abandoned and demonised by left? I think you're proving the perception point without realizing it. You're explaining what those terms are supposed to mean. The issue is how they're often received and applied in practice. If large numbers of young men repeatedly tell you they feel talked down to, blamed, or viewed with suspicion, eventually you have to ask why that perception exists instead of assuming they all misunderstood the message. Also, intent and impact aren't the same thing. You may mean "toxic masculinity" as criticism…	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/06/26 06:08 PM
8	Misandrist feminists do not exist. The logical weakness in this argument is that it's relying on a definition rather than how people actually behave. By definition, sure, feminism is generally described as a movement for gender equality. Under that definition, someone who genuinely wants men to have fewer rights or opportunities would not be acting consistently with feminist principles. The problem is that movements are judged not only by their definitions but also by the beliefs and actions of people within them. Saying "they ar…	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/06/26 06:47 AM
3	When feminist women deny blatant redpill truths, like being a nice person alone won’t get you laid. It really pulls into question the integrity of what ALL women say. As if women are prepared to lie just to uphold their ideological beliefs. To an extent, sure. Most people are going to protect the image of groups they identify with. Women aren't unique in that regard. That's why I tend to put more weight on observed behavior than on what people say their motivations are. When protecting a narrative and being completely honest come into conflict, a lot of people will choose the narrative. That's true of women, men, political groups, religions, and pretty much every other tribe. The issue isn't that women always lie. It's that people …	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/06/26 06:07 AM
17	Do you believe women should cater more to men/be less selective? Women being more selective and men having it harder in dating doesn't automatically mean women are at fault. That's just part of the reality of the market. Men generally pursue more, women generally select more, and that naturally makes dating harder for the average man. Where I would add nuance is that "not women's fault" doesn't mean women never contribute to the culture around it. Women don't have to lower their standards, but people can still criticize unrealistic standards, social media inf…	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/06/26 04:40 AM
–	What do you think about young men feeling abandoned and demonised by left? I think you're downplaying how much of it does come from the left. This isn't just random social media outrage. A lot of young men have spent years hearing mainstream left-leaning spaces talk about male privilege, toxic masculinity, patriarchy, male entitlement, male violence, male gaze, male socialization, and how men need to do better. At a certain point, it becomes silly to act like young men are imagining the pattern. Criticism is not automatically hatred, but when the criticism is almost al…	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/06/26 04:16 AM
5	When feminist women deny blatant redpill truths, like being a nice person alone won’t get you laid. It really pulls into question the integrity of what ALL women say. As if women are prepared to lie just to uphold their ideological beliefs. Yeah, a lot of the time the perception is that some people are less interested in accurately describing dating dynamics and more interested in avoiding conclusions they think make women look bad. So when someone says, "being nice alone isn't enough," instead of discussing whether it's true, the conversation shifts to whether saying it is unfair, harmful, sexist, or reinforces a negative narrative. The problem with that approach is that it focuses on protecting an image rather than evaluating the…	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/06/26 03:04 AM
–	What do you think about young men feeling abandoned and demonised by left? That's a pretty ironic argument given how often people accuse voters they disagree with of being emotional while assuming their own side is voting purely on logic and facts. People generally vote based on what they believe is in their interests. The disagreement is usually over what those interests actually are. One person may prioritize jobs, immigration, crime, culture, foreign policy, taxes, free speech, or something else entirely. Also, saying "I vote for policies that make things better for…	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/06/26 02:32 AM
2	Redpill tactics are idiotic and have the opposite of the intended affect for high quality women This is way too absolute. First, you're lumping together completely different behaviors and calling them all "red-pill tactics." Being unavailable, having options, being playful, and obsessively interrogating someone about their sexual history are not the same thing. Second, if these tactics universally failed, nobody would use them because they wouldn't produce results. The fact they're so common suggests they sometimes work, at least in certain situations and with certain women. Also, you're a…	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/06/26 02:07 AM
3	Woman, would you date a detrans man? Why or why not? I think most women would care more about what it says about the man than the six months of estrogen itself. Some women would see it as a sign of confusion, instability, or uncertainty about identity and consider it a dealbreaker. Others would see it as someone who explored something, realized it wasn't for him, and moved on. From a dating perspective, I suspect the biggest factor would be attraction. If the man is attractive, confident, socially competent, and otherwise checks the boxes she's lo…	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/06/26 02:00 AM
1	It's totally ok to be superficial and selfish in dating Yeah you are just going in circles with lies. If you want to believe this sure go ahead.	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/06/26 01:54 AM
18	Do you believe women should cater more to men/be less selective? I don't think women have a moral obligation to date men they don't want to date or to compromise their preferences just to solve male loneliness. Attraction doesn't really work that way. That said, I do think women could be more understanding of men's dating struggles instead of pretending the experiences are roughly the same. For most men, dating is significantly more difficult, especially when it comes to getting attention, initiating, handling rejection, and finding opportunities in the first…	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/06/26 01:51 AM
1	It's totally ok to be superficial and selfish in dating Yeah, plenty of men say the opposite. The difference is that most people who aren't already RP don't really talk about women that way. Those views are far more common in spaces specifically built around criticizing female dating behavior. Meanwhile, "know your worth," "don't settle," and similar messages are repeated by women and by plenty of mainstream voices outside of gender-war spaces. That's why I don't think the two are really comparable in terms of how socially accepted they are. It's als…	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/06/26 01:43 AM
1	It's totally ok to be superficial and selfish in dating Nah, that's not true. This is said by women in plenty of places on and offline, not just random internet comments. The whole "standards, knowing your worth, don't settle" framing is extremely common for women. Most people who aren't already RP don't really talk about women the opposite way either. That's more common in spaces specifically built around criticizing female dating behavior. So pointing to men on the internet saying "women bad" doesn't really refute the point. That's a smaller online…	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/06/26 01:12 AM
15	What do you think about young men feeling abandoned and demonised by left? This response kind of proves the point. The argument was that young men feel like the left talks to them through blame, suspicion, and lectures. Your reply is basically: this is men's fault, men are easy to manipulate, and they'll deserve the consequences. That is exactly the kind of messaging that pushes them away. Nobody said straight men need to be prioritized above everyone else. That's a strawman. The point is that if a group has real problems, you can't expect them to support people who ac…	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/06/26 01:03 AM
1	It's totally ok to be superficial and selfish in dating Market success is probably the easiest thing for people to observe, which is why they rely on it so heavily. The problem is that it's also imperfect. A man's value can come from a lot of things: character, intelligence, work ethic, competence, discipline, ambition, loyalty, social skills, physical fitness, and so on. Not all of those immediately translate into dating success. That's why people often use relationship success as a shortcut. It's visible and easy to understand. If a man is attracti…	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/06/26 12:41 AM
1	It's totally ok to be superficial and selfish in dating I think a lot of it comes down to social proof and perceived value. When a man is already in a relationship, people tend to assume his standards are realistic because he successfully attracted someone. His preferences are viewed through the lens of someone who has already proven he can get results. When he's single, especially if he's struggling, the same preferences are more likely to be questioned. People may assume he's asking for more than he can realistically get, so the standards themselve…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/06/26 11:47 PM
3	Men fail to understand that women want to be chosen, not settled for. Well of course, but that can take many years for some people. So in the meantime, this can be their reality for a very long time. The funny part is that once they finally do level up, improve themselves, and get more options, they're often told they're wrong for having standards of their own. If they don't want to date single moms, women with high body counts, or other traits they don't prefer, suddenly their preferences get scrutinized. Meanwhile, the women who weren't interested in them before…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/06/26 11:36 PM
1	It's totally ok to be superficial and selfish in dating I think there's something to that. Once two people are in a relationship, nobody really questions whether they're acting in their own interests. They're literally choosing each other over everyone else, prioritizing their own happiness, setting boundaries, and excluding other options. Society generally views that as normal and healthy. The criticism seems to show up more when a single man is doing the selecting. If he's openly pursuing what he wants, filtering people out, or prioritizing his own…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/06/26 11:30 PM
13	What do you think about young men feeling abandoned and demonised by left? This is a real political failure. You cannot expect young men to support a side that mostly speaks to them through blame, suspicion, or lectures. A lot of young men are not rich, powerful, socially dominant, or benefiting from some easy life. Many are lonely, underperforming in school, struggling with work, lacking male role models, and feeling like society only notices them when it wants to criticize them. The left often talks about empathy and structural problems, but when men struggle, that s…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/06/26 11:20 PM
1	It's totally ok to be superficial and selfish in dating What's hard to understand is that you're just asserting the conclusion rather than demonstrating it. You're saying men aren't criticized for the preferences themselves, only for how they express them. Okay, but that's still the very thing being debated. You don't get to settle the argument by simply restating your position. There are plenty of examples where men get criticized for the preference itself. Age preferences, weight preferences, wanting casual relationships, preferring traditional rol…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/06/26 11:07 PM
1	It's totally ok to be superficial and selfish in dating Then you're still not addressing the claim. The claim wasn't that men get criticized only when they're insulting women. The claim was that similar behaviors, preferences, or self-interested choices can be judged differently depending on whether a man or a woman is doing them. You responded by saying people criticize men for insulting women. Okay, but that doesn't tell us whether the double standard exists because you've narrowed the discussion down to one specific behavior. You're treating one e…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/06/26 11:00 PM
1	It's totally ok to be superficial and selfish in dating You're just going in circles at this point. Nobody defended insulting women. Nobody said men should insult people they aren't attracted to. Yet you keep repeating that as if it's a response to the argument that was actually made. The discussion was about whether similar self-interested behavior is sometimes judged differently depending on whether a man or a woman is doing it. Instead of addressing that, you keep returning to "don't insult people," which isn't the claim being debated. You're argu…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/06/26 10:53 PM
2	Do you think that sexy women are "torturing" average and unattractive men? You're acting like I'm dodging the OP when I've already agreed with the main point multiple times. Yes, the interaction was unpleasant. Yes, the guy behaved poorly. Yes, the entitlement and hostility were the biggest problems. None of that has been disputed. The part you're conveniently ignoring is that she didn't just write, "This guy was unpleasant." She specifically posted it as a question for RP men and asked whether there was any truth to what he was saying or whether it was just crazy talk…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/06/26 10:50 PM
1	It's totally ok to be superficial and selfish in dating That doesn't really address the point, though. The argument wasn't about whether people can be forced to date someone. Everyone already agrees people can choose whoever they want. The argument was about how similar preferences and self-interested behavior are often judged differently depending on who is expressing them. Saying "just keep your standards to yourself" sidesteps that question entirely. Also, people clearly do comment on other people's standards all the time. Entire discussions exist…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/06/26 10:30 PM
4	Do you think that sexy women are "torturing" average and unattractive men? There wasn't really much point in making that distinction, though, because I already made it. I already said the way he handled the interaction was a bad choice and that acting like she owed him something was where he lost people. That part was never being defended. The only thing I was pointing out is that someone can be generally right about certain dating dynamics while still behaving poorly in a specific interaction. Those aren't mutually exclusive positions, and I've been separating them fr…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/06/26 10:26 PM
1	Would you change your views and behaviour? I think the problem with the question is that it mixes recognition of a problem with personal responsibility for solving it. If it were proven that sexlessness and lack of female attention were major contributors to male suicide, I think most reasonable people would agree it's a serious issue worth discussing. That answers question one. The problem comes with questions two and three. Recognizing a problem doesn't automatically create an obligation for individual women to provide attention, valid…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/06/26 10:18 PM
2	It's totally ok to be superficial and selfish in dating Well, that just gets a man called misogynistic, and besides, most of society doesn’t do that.	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/06/26 10:08 PM
1	What is so bad about directly asking for sex? Because for a lot of women, the issue isn't just the request itself. They usually want there to be some level of connection, rapport, flirting, or mutual interest before sex is brought up. The irony is that sexual interest is often what motivates a man to take the risk and approach in the first place. The attraction was already there. He just skipped the social process that many women expect to happen first. That said, reactions are rarely judged in a vacuum. If a highly attractive man, celebrit…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/06/26 09:05 PM
2	Do you think that sexy women are "torturing" average and unattractive men? Not really. I explicitly said the way he handled it was a bad choice and that he lost most people when he started acting like she owed him something. What I'm disagreeing with is the idea that because someone behaves poorly, every observation they make must therefore be false. Those are separate questions. You seem to be interpreting any acknowledgment that he made a valid point as me defending his behavior. I'm not. Someone can be hostile, entitled, socially awkward, and still say something tha…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/06/26 08:55 PM
14	Most Lesbian or Bisexual women do NOT have more game than straight men. It is simply easier as a girl to date. I think a lot of women underestimate how much social grace they receive in dating interactions because they've never had to experience the male side of it. If a woman sends a bad message, says something awkward, misreads signals, or approaches in an unusual way, she's often given another chance. A man making the same mistakes may be written off immediately. That doesn't mean women have no challenges, but it does mean the consequences for social missteps can be very different. That's why I don't …	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/06/26 08:42 PM
2	Do you think that sexy women are "torturing" average and unattractive men? Yeah, that's pretty much what I was saying. The way he handled it was obviously a bad choice and wasn't going to help him in that situation. That doesn't mean every point he made was automatically wrong, though. Someone can make valid observations about dating dynamics while also picking a terrible time and place to bring them up.	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/06/26 08:39 PM
13	Most Lesbian or Bisexual women do NOT have more game than straight men. It is simply easier as a girl to date. That isn't the case. The argument isn't that women know what women want better. The argument is that women are often judged under different social rules when approaching women. Being perceived as less threatening and getting more benefit of the doubt are completely different claims from "women understand women better."	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/06/26 08:35 PM
6	Do you think that sexy women are "torturing" average and unattractive men? I mean, it doesn't sound all that good to some people because RP is heavily villainized, but a lot of what he was saying has elements of truth to it. Men generally do have higher sex drives on average, many men are strongly influenced by visual attraction, and attractive clothing will naturally draw more attention from men. None of that is particularly controversial. I can also understand why some men would describe the experience as extremely frustrating. For many average men, sex and relations…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/06/26 08:20 PM
3	It's totally ok to be superficial and selfish in dating The strange part is how often men get criticized for acting in their own interests while the same behavior is normalized, encouraged, or even celebrated when women do it. A man wanting the best partner he can attract is often called shallow, entitled, selfish, insecure, or unrealistic. A woman wanting the best partner she can attract is usually described as having standards, knowing her worth, refusing to settle, or doing what is best for herself. If dating is a market where everyone is trying t…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/06/26 07:52 PM
6	Most people don’t want to be around someone with a victim complex, The biggest issue with that argument is that it conflates complaining with identifying problems. Someone can point out disadvantages, biases, or issues affecting men without believing they are a victim 24/7 or that they bear no responsibility for their own life. By that logic, nearly every social movement in history would just be dismissed as whining because people were talking about problems instead of staying quiet. The question isn't whether someone complains; it's whether what they're saying…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/06/26 07:49 PM
7	Give and take in gender war Men should be more willing to listen to women's concerns without immediately assuming bad faith, and women should be more willing to acknowledge that men have legitimate issues and vulnerabilities too. Men could do a better job of understanding the safety concerns many women have. In return, women could do a better job of understanding that men face risks and pressures that are often dismissed or minimized. More broadly, both sides should stop assuming the worst motives. A lot of these discussio…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/06/26 07:39 PM
2	"The patriarchy hurts everyone" can also be understood as "our biological realities are challenging". I think the strongest part of the argument is that not every difference between men and women automatically requires a patriarchy explanation. If men and women differ on average in things like sexual selectivity, attraction triggers, risk tolerance, aggression, physical strength, and reproductive costs, then it makes sense to at least consider whether some social patterns emerge from those differences rather than assuming they were entirely imposed by a social system. Where I think the debate ge…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/06/26 07:04 AM
6	Reddit lacks nuance when it comes to casual sex Yeah, that can definitely happen. Most people probably need to try it out before they know for sure how they'll react. It's easy to say you'll be fine keeping things casual, or to assume you'll get attached, but assumptions only go so far. A lot of people don't really know where they fall until they're actually in that situation and dealing with the emotions afterward. That's why I think there's more nuance here than people admit. Some people try casual sex and realize they can separate sex from…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/06/26 06:21 AM
2	Women find good men sexually appealing Yeah, they tend to care a lot more about loyalty once it's being tested. It's easy for loyalty to rank low when you're evaluating traits on paper and assuming everything is fine. The real test is when a man has options, is talking to other women, or is actually willing to leave. That's usually when loyalty suddenly becomes a much bigger concern. That's why I don't put much weight on loyalty ranking dead last in a survey. People often don't fully appreciate a trait until its absence creates a pro…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/06/26 04:00 AM
3	Why is it so hard to believe some people who genuinely value depth, loyalty, etc? Yeah no problem. I have no problem being nice to nice people. Yeah this forum can be quite wild for sure.	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/06/26 03:54 AM
3	Would you want to be friends, roommates, or family with someone who’s unpleasant, self-centered, and transactional? I'd rather have good people around me. Most people would. The problem is that this doesn't really tell us much about dating because there's a difference between traits people say they want and the traits that actually generate attraction. Someone can make a great friend, roommate, coworker, or family member and still struggle romantically. Being kind, respectful, considerate, and pleasant generally makes someone easier to be around. The disagreement isn't whether those traits are valuable. The d…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/06/26 01:59 AM
2	Why is it so hard to believe some people who genuinely value depth, loyalty, etc? Yeah, it would probably be nice for a lot of men if it were more common. I don't doubt that women like you exist. The reason these discussions happen is because many men feel that traits like character, values, and compatibility often aren't prioritized as highly as they'd hope. Whether that's actually a Western issue or not is a separate discussion, but I do think culture plays a role in shaping what people prioritize. Either way, I appreciate you sharing your perspective because it's a much mo…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/06/26 01:16 AM
2	Women consistently reinforce that attraction is Amoral. Yet continue to moralize unsuccessful Mens inability to be selected. Depending on Narrative and Context I added more on top to make it better an more clear.	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/06/26 01:13 AM
1	Women find good men sexually appealing Yeah, some men may only be interested in a relationship because they want sex, and I don't see that as inherently wrong. People pursue relationships for different reasons. If a woman wants something different and their goals don't align, then they're simply not compatible. Also, if you're asking whether your original reply makes sense, yes. The strongest part is the compatibility point. That's where the argument naturally lands. If one person primarily wants sex and the other wants something els…	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/06/26 11:50 PM
2	Women consistently reinforce that attraction is Amoral. Yet continue to moralize unsuccessful Mens inability to be selected. Depending on Narrative and Context Some bad people are unsuccessful at dating, and some bad people are very successful at dating. The same is true for good people. That's why dating success or failure by itself doesn't tell us much about a person's character.	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/06/26 11:37 PM
5	Is working for a living more traumatizing than being sexually assaulted? Of course they are not the same thing, and it would be silly to argue they are morally identical. The better argument is that long-term misery, pressure, obligation, and being trapped in work you hate can absolutely damage a person over time. Years of stress, exhaustion, humiliation, physical strain, and feeling like your life is being drained away can be deeply harmful. That still does not make it the same as rape. The mistake is acting like only one kind of suffering can be real. Sexual assaul…	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/06/26 11:27 PM
3	Why is it so hard to believe some people who genuinely value depth, loyalty, etc? That's a fair example, but I don't think it necessarily contradicts what I was saying. My point wasn't that women like you don't exist. In fact, I specifically said I'm sure some women do prioritize things like values, character, beliefs, and compatibility. What your example shows is that those traits were genuinely important to you and were able to create attraction. You became interested through conversation, shared perspectives, and the connection you felt before things like money, height, or…	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/06/26 10:50 PM
14	Women consistently reinforce that attraction is Amoral. Yet continue to moralize unsuccessful Mens inability to be selected. Depending on Narrative and Context The easiest way to see the inconsistency is to look at what happens when people want to insult someone. Suddenly a man's lack of success gets used as a character attack. If dating outcomes are supposed to be separate from morality, then using romantic failure as an insult makes no sense. Nobody looks at a woman who struggles in dating and automatically assumes she's a bad person. Nobody looks at a man who is successful in dating and automatically concludes he's virtuous. Yet when an unsuccessful…	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/06/26 03:23 PM
5	Why is it so hard to believe some people who genuinely value depth, loyalty, etc? Yeah, I'm sure some women like that exist. The issue is how often those traits actually get prioritized over things like looks, status, confidence, money, or excitement. A woman can say she values morals, character, ethics, and loyalty, and maybe she genuinely does. That doesn't mean those traits are what create attraction or get prioritized first. In a lot of cases, those traits matter more after a man has already passed the attraction threshold. If he doesn't, then his morals and character may…	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/06/26 03:05 PM
3	Why exactly is women wanting money from men worse than men wanting sex with women Nobody said women don't have the right to go solo. Nobody said women must center men. You're arguing against a position that isn't even being presented. Also, "women don't need men" is doing a lot of work here. Women don't need men to survive. Most men don't need women to survive either. That doesn't tell us much. The real question is whether men and women still want relationships, companionship, families, intimacy, and support from each other. Clearly many still do. The rest is mostly just psyc…	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/06/26 03:00 PM
9	Cold Approaching, myths and experiences Well, it wouldn't necessarily make someone a loser, but it would be nice for a man to not have to rely on friend groups as their primary option. It limits a mans opportunities, can create friction if things go badly, and can make social circles awkward afterward. Not only that, some women will assume the man was only pretending to be her friend to get close to her romantically or sexually, so they may view the situation negatively. Of course, if the man is already quite attractive, that may be l…	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/06/26 04:55 AM
14	Women find good men sexually appealing I think you're smuggling attraction into the equation. Very few people argue that women are turned off by good men. The argument is that being a good man by itself doesn't create attraction. If a man is already attractive, confident, charismatic, or otherwise desirable, then being a good man is a positive trait. If the attraction isn't there, being good rarely creates it on its own. That's why so many men reject the old BP advice. For years they were told that being kind, respectful, and good wa…	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/06/26 04:49 AM
5	If men benefit from marriage more, why do women pressure for it? You're not actually showing that marriage is a worse deal for women. You're showing that women view marriage as better than the available alternatives. The contradiction isn't that you think marriage is the least bad option. The contradiction is that marriage is constantly described as primarily benefiting men while women are the ones far more often pushing for it, which you of course failed to mention. If marriage is such a losing proposition for women, why are so many women trying to secure it…	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/06/26 04:41 AM
3	If men benefit from marriage more, why do women pressure for it? Yeah, they claim marriage benefits men more, but the behavior often tells a different story. If marriage was mostly a bad deal for women and mostly a great deal for men, you would expect men to be the ones begging for it and women to be avoiding it. Instead, we often see women complaining about men not proposing, men avoiding marriage, or men preferring casual arrangements. That suggests women are getting plenty of benefits from marriage too, especially once you factor in security, status, legal…	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/06/26 02:11 AM
11	Cold Approaching, myths and experiences Nah, that's not really true. Plenty of women make it very clear they don't enjoy attention from men they aren't attracted to. You're acting as though men only care about the success rate, but the reaction and the success rate are linked. If a man expects rejection and knows some women react negatively to unwanted attention, that's obviously going to affect whether he approaches. So I agree the low success rate is a major factor. I just don't buy the claim that concern about negative reactions pl…	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/06/26 02:03 AM
2	Feminists complaining about issues like women being objectified, or approached by men is always the most frustrating thing ever, due to their cognitive dissonance in their expectations for men in society. I believe you're still blending different groups together. Some men probably are lazy, avoid rejection, barely tried, and then used online content to justify quitting. I wouldn't deny that. The part I push back on is acting like that explains the whole trend. If enough men are overriding a strong desire for sex, companionship, and relationships, then that itself suggests something is seriously off with the incentive structure. As for what they want, I don't think it's always some clear political…	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/06/26 01:58 AM
5	My Perspective on the Sexualization of Women in Media The biggest thing I'd push back on is the idea that media is primarily driving this. Media responds to incentives. If attractive people, sex appeal, and beauty didn't attract attention, advertisers and media companies wouldn't keep using them. Where I partially agree is that this isn't solely a male-driven phenomenon. A lot of discussions frame sexualization as something men impose on women, but women also participate in and benefit from appearance-based status systems. Social media is probably …	/r/PurplePillDebate	08/06/26 07:15 PM
5	What do you think about victimhood mentality, weaponized victimhood? The issue isn't whether victimhood works. Clearly it does. Groups throughout history have used narratives of disadvantage, unfairness, or oppression to gain sympathy, influence public opinion, and push for change. The question is why it's considered acceptable when one group does it but unacceptable when another does it. For decades we've been told that discussing women's disadvantages is important because problems can't be solved unless they're acknowledged. Then when men discuss disadvantages …	/r/PurplePillDebate	08/06/26 06:27 PM
–	Why did I start getting more women by implementing toxic, narcissistic and manipulative behaviors? This might be aimed at the wrong group, since RP already recognizes this. It's usually BP that tries to downplay it. Anyway, yeah, some women are turned on by that, especially if they're into bad boys. That's been a thing for a long time, and it seems particularly common among some younger women. That doesn't mean all women are attracted to those traits, but some definitely are. That's not exactly a controversial observation.	/r/PurplePillDebate	08/06/26 06:08 PM
3	How Common is it For Male Relationship Partners to Misbehave So As to Cause Lasting Emotional Harm If the question is specifically, "How often do male partners behave in ways that cause lasting emotional harm?" then sure, the immediate cause of the harm is the man's behavior. The issue is that this doesn't really address the point I was making. Recognizing that a man's actions caused harm doesn't automatically mean every contributing factor before that point becomes irrelevant. Also, nobody said women need clairvoyance. The point isn't that women should magically predict every bad outcome. It…	/r/PurplePillDebate	08/06/26 06:01 PM
0	A vast chunk of pro-women takes on Reddit are actually just benevolent sexism. Some of those are definitely expectations, but that doesn't really address the point being made. An expectation can still be based on a stereotype. "Women are more mature," "women are better communicators," or "women are more empathetic" are still positive generalizations about women, even if they sometimes come with pressure attached. The fact that a stereotype creates expectations doesn't stop it from being flattering in many contexts. If someone says women are more emotionally intelligent or …	/r/PurplePillDebate	08/06/26 05:55 PM
–	Why did I start getting more women by implementing toxic, narcissistic and manipulative behaviors? I did. I said he aimed it at the wrong group and that not all women are attracted to that, so that is two big disagreements right there.	/r/PurplePillDebate	08/06/26 05:51 PM
–	Why did I start getting more women by implementing toxic, narcissistic and manipulative behaviors? Yeah, that can definitely be the case, especially if they find the man attractive. Some women will throw their morals or standards out the window pretty quickly for the right guy. A lot of the standards people talk about aren't always applied equally. It's often the men they don't find attractive who get held to the strictest standards, especially among some younger women. That doesn't mean all women are like that, but it's common enough that many men notice the difference in how certain behavio…	/r/PurplePillDebate	08/06/26 09:20 AM
-1	How Common is it For Male Relationship Partners to Misbehave So As to Cause Lasting Emotional Harm The key distinction is between lasting emotional harm and simply being hurt by a failed relationship. Cheating, lying, manipulation, and betrayal can absolutely cause long-term trust issues and emotional damage. The problem is that people often lump ordinary heartbreak, rejection, and failed relationships into the same category when they are not necessarily the same thing. Men can cause real emotional harm, but it is also important to recognize that not all of that harm comes solely from male be…	/r/PurplePillDebate	08/06/26 08:58 AM
–	Why did I start getting more women by implementing toxic, narcissistic and manipulative behaviors? This might be aimed at the wrong group, since RP already recognizes this. It's usually BP that tries to downplay it. Anyway, yeah, some women are turned on by that, especially if they're into bad boys. That's been a thing for a long time, and it seems particularly common among some younger women. That doesn't mean all women are attracted to those traits, but some definitely are. That's not exactly a controversial observation.	/r/PurplePillDebate	08/06/26 07:51 AM
2	"Men also only pursuing a small group of women” Is Projection From The Selectors. "Men also only pursuing a small group of women" often comes across as projection from the selectors. Some women take their personal struggles and assume they represent the female experience as a whole. If they struggled, they assume average women, below-average women, and unattractive women must be facing the same dating reality. The problem is that an individual woman struggling doesn't change the broader dynamic. Even if some women struggle, that still doesn't mean women in general do. We can …	/r/PurplePillDebate	08/06/26 07:25 AM
10	Men fail to understand that women want to be chosen, not settled for. Unfortunately, that's not always how life works. Some men end up having to choose from the options they can realistically get, not necessarily their ideal option. That doesn't automatically mean they don't care about their partner or can't have a good relationship. It just means not everyone gets their first choice. That's true for a lot of people, not just men.	/r/PurplePillDebate	08/06/26 06:55 AM
3	Feminists complaining about issues like women being objectified, or approached by men is always the most frustrating thing ever, due to their cognitive dissonance in their expectations for men in society. Thing is im not saying men aren't hardwired to seek companionship, sex, or relationships. The question is whether the effort required is producing results that men find worthwhile. You're framing it as though men are irrationally talking themselves out of dating. What many are actually doing is looking at their experiences and asking whether the return matches the investment. The debate has never really been about whether men want relationships. It's about how difficult it is for average men to …	/r/PurplePillDebate	08/06/26 06:47 AM
2	Feminists complaining about issues like women being objectified, or approached by men is always the most frustrating thing ever, due to their cognitive dissonance in their expectations for men in society. There's probably some truth to that. A lot of people don't literally mean "looks don't matter." They mean "looks aren't the only thing that matters" or they're trying to encourage someone rather than give a cold assessment. The problem is that those messages can get interpreted as factual claims rather than supportive ones. If looks truly didn't matter much, there wouldn't be a massive beauty industry, makeup industry, cosmetic surgery industry, fitness industry, and so much effort put into appe…	/r/PurplePillDebate	08/06/26 01:20 AM
2	Feminists complaining about issues like women being objectified, or approached by men is always the most frustrating thing ever, due to their cognitive dissonance in their expectations for men in society. You don't have to crush his spirit, but you don't have to lie to him either. There's a pretty big middle ground between "you're doomed" and "looks barely matter." You can tell him the truth: looks matter, some people will have an easier time than others, and he'll probably face challenges that a better-looking guy won't. Then you can talk about the things he can actually improve. The problem starts when people swing so far toward encouragement that they stop being honest about reality. False hop…	/r/PurplePillDebate	08/06/26 12:25 AM
3	Feminists complaining about issues like women being objectified, or approached by men is always the most frustrating thing ever, due to their cognitive dissonance in their expectations for men in society. No, not usually directly. They usually argue it indirectly by saying things like “looks don’t matter that much” or “just be confident.” That avoids the obvious point that attractive men usually get more interest, more chances, and more room for error than ugly men.	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/06/26 11:56 PM
5	Feminists complaining about issues like women being objectified, or approached by men is always the most frustrating thing ever, due to their cognitive dissonance in their expectations for men in society. That’s basically my point. Nobody is defending men not taking no for an answer. That’s a completely different issue. The argument is about results. If unattractive men are far more likely to be rejected, then “just approach” is not some easy fix. It still means they have to put in a lot more effort for much weaker results. So yeah, that’s life. But that also supports the point that dating is harder for unattractive men, especially when men are still expected to initiate in the first place.	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/06/26 11:11 PM
3	Feminists complaining about issues like women being objectified, or approached by men is always the most frustrating thing ever, due to their cognitive dissonance in their expectations for men in society. Some men have definitely exaggerated the risk of being called a creep or accused of harassment. That fear can become overblown. My point is that this was never only about whether women react harshly. Even if 95% of women reject politely, the average guy still has to deal with a lot of rejection for very little return. Our parents and grandparents had rejection too, but they were operating in a different dating environment. There were no apps, no social media, fewer endless comparison points, and…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/06/26 10:11 PM
–	If a woman hesitates on a dna test then you HAVE to assume she cheated. I don't think that follows. People can oppose mandatory DNA databases for reasons completely unrelated to criminal activity. Privacy concerns, data retention, government overreach, data security, and misuse of information are all common reasons someone might object. Refusing to submit your DNA to a government database does not automatically make you a criminal. In the same way, wanting paternity verification does not automatically mean a man believes his partner cheated. In both cases, you're ta…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/06/26 09:07 PM
2	Men on here are contradictory Oh you are going back a couple months to try to help your other argument, lol. Thing is you're kind of proving my point. My argument was never that women can't justify their standards. My argument was that women can have all of those standards and still end up being more selective overall. You just took two examples from my comment and gave reasons for them. Sure, a woman can rule out a man for height because she's not attracted to him. Sure, a woman can rule out a broke man because she sees fin…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/06/26 07:54 PM
–	If a woman hesitates on a dna test then you HAVE to assume she cheated. You're making a lot of assumptions that don't actually follow from the premise. First, you're repeatedly asserting that paternity testing "puts the baby at risk." How? Modern paternity tests are typically cheek swabs. Calling that a meaningful risk to the baby seems like a huge exaggeration. Second, you've shifted from arguing against paternity verification to arguing against a specific implementation that you personally imagined. Nobody said birth certificates can't be issued, that babies must …	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/06/26 07:28 PM
–	If a woman hesitates on a dna test then you HAVE to assume she cheated. The problem is that you're arguing about implementation rather than the underlying principle. If paternity verification is legitimate, then questions about privacy, storage, regulation, liability, consent, record retention, and cost are logistical issues to solve, not arguments against the concept itself. Most important medical and legal processes already involve extensive regulations, paperwork, privacy protections, liability concerns, record keeping, and consent procedures. We don't reject som…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/06/26 06:45 PM
2	Men and women do not live the same life I don't know. I've seen plenty of very unattractive women in relationships, with kids, married, dating, and especially getting casual attention. That is why I have a hard time accepting that dating, especially in both the long and short term, is "impossible" for below-average women as a general rule. What I see more often is that the men those women can realistically get are not the men they actually want, especially if they are looking for anything long-term. That's a different claim than havin…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/06/26 06:30 PM
–	If a woman hesitates on a dna test then you HAVE to assume she cheated. A lot of that sounds like paperwork and liability issues, not an argument against the principle of paternity verification. Hospitals already handle blood tests, genetic screening, newborn screening, birth certificates, medical records, insurance billing, HIPAA, liability, consent forms, sample handling, and long-term records. Acting like DNA testing is some impossible new category of problem is a stretch. Most of the concerns you listed are solvable with basic consent rules and clear policy: who…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/06/26 06:20 PM
2	Work on yourself is useless advice Yeah, that's part of the problem. A lot of the advice is so vague that it's hard to build any actionable plan around it. "Work on yourself" sounds good, but if it isn't paired with practical steps on how to improve someone's actual situation, it can end up being little more than a slogan. Telling someone to go to the gym, be confident, or put themselves out there doesn't necessarily tell them what to do differently tomorrow. The advice becomes even less useful when people refuse to connect self-…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/06/26 06:02 PM
12	A vast chunk of pro-women takes on Reddit are actually just benevolent sexism. Yeah, that's part of the issue. Society is often far more comfortable with positive stereotypes about women than negative stereotypes about women, even when those positive stereotypes aren't particularly accurate. Statements like "women are more mature," "women are more empathetic," "women are more trustworthy," or "women are better communicators" are often accepted without much scrutiny because they make women look good. If you made similarly broad claims about men, people would be much quicker…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/06/26 05:49 PM
–	If a woman hesitates on a dna test then you HAVE to assume she cheated. You're the one creating a false choice here. Nobody said a man has to completely distrust his partner to want a paternity test. The entire point is that trust and certainty are not the same thing. People trust others all the time and still verify important things. Having unprotected sex with someone doesn't suddenly grant a man the same biological certainty that a woman has about parenthood. You keep saying that requesting a DNA test "proves the trust isn't there," but that's just your assertion…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/06/26 05:42 PM
–	If a woman hesitates on a dna test then you HAVE to assume she cheated. You're still assuming the only thing being verified is whether cheating occurred. The point is that paternity is a factual question. A paternity test verifies paternity. It does not automatically tell you why a mismatch occurred if one is found.	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/06/26 05:09 PM
–	If a woman hesitates on a dna test then you HAVE to assume she cheated. You're still missing the distinction between verification and surveillance. Checking someone's phone, demanding receipts, tracking their location, and asking for constant proof of where they are is an ongoing monitoring system. A paternity test is a one-time verification of a life-altering fact with permanent consequences. Those are not remotely equivalent. As for "she could take the DNA test if that was the concern," that only proves the child belongs to the mother. It does not prove who the fa…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/06/26 05:05 PM
–	If a woman hesitates on a dna test then you HAVE to assume she cheated. People take risks with people they trust all the time. Trust is not the same thing as certainty. You can trust someone enough to have unprotected sex and still recognize that paternity is one of the few areas where men don't have the same built-in certainty that women do. The entire reason paternity fraud exists is because trust and verification are not identical concepts. If trust alone eliminated all risk, there would never be any cases where men discovered years later that a child wasn't thei…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/06/26 04:54 PM
–	If a woman hesitates on a dna test then you HAVE to assume she cheated. No, you're still conflating possibility with belief. You're acting as though wanting a paternity test automatically means a man believes cheating occurred. It doesn't. If a child turned out not to be his, cheating would be one possible explanation. It is not the only possible explanation. Hospital mix-ups, baby swaps, IVF or fertility clinic errors involving sperm or embryo mix-ups, laboratory testing errors, misidentified medical samples, and rare administrative mistakes have all occurred befor…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/06/26 04:48 PM
3	Men and women do not live the same life I definitely wasn't claiming every woman gets approached simply because she's a woman. I just said as such and yet you reply with this again. The argument is that, on average, women generally have an easier time generating interest than similarly situated men. Once we start talking about people at the extreme low end of attractiveness, the dynamic can obviously change. That said, I still don't think a shy, unattractive woman is facing the same reality as a shy, unattractive man. There are plenty…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/06/26 04:41 PM
–	If a woman hesitates on a dna test then you HAVE to assume she cheated. No, those aren't the same thing. Wanting certainty about paternity is not the same as believing your partner cheated. People verify things they already strongly believe all the time. The entire reason paternity fraud is possible is because trust and certainty are not identical concepts. A man can trust his partner and still recognize that he has no independent way to verify paternity without a test. Wanting verification does not automatically mean a man believes his partner cheated. Those are tw…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/06/26 04:37 PM
–	If a woman hesitates on a dna test then you HAVE to assume she cheated. Yeah, a man should be able to do that problem-free, and a woman should be able to understand why. The mother already knows with certainty that the child is hers, while the father has to rely on trust alone. In every other major legal or financial matter, people are allowed to verify important facts, yet somehow paternity is treated differently. A man can literally spend decades raising a child, investing his time, money, and emotional energy, only to find out later that the child was never his. …	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/06/26 07:20 AM
12	Feminists complaining about issues like women being objectified, or approached by men is always the most frustrating thing ever, due to their cognitive dissonance in their expectations for men in society. The debate has never really been about whether women are going to scream at every man who approaches them. It's about how difficult it is for average men to convert approaches into actual dating opportunities compared to the amount of effort required. So even if most women are perfectly polite, that wouldn't necessarily disprove the argument being made. The question is whether the average man gets meaningful results from those approaches, not whether he gets yelled at.	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/06/26 06:03 AM
5	Men and women do not live the same life I don't think anyone is saying every woman has it easier than every man. The argument is about general trends, not individual exceptions. If you're genuinely unattractive and socially withdrawn, then yes, you're probably going to have a much harder time than an attractive woman. I don't think that's controversial. The question is whether a similarly situated man would typically have an easier time, and I don't see much evidence for that. You're also taking a claim about averages and responding w…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/06/26 05:46 AM
7	The media narrative about AI girlfriends and AI boyfriends is opposite Yeah thanks that's funny that you got the reward for quoting me, hand that over, lol.	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/06/26 03:06 AM
–	Women are being scammed by the empowerment industry harder than men are by red pill, and it's not even close Yeah, this comparison is already off because it assumes RP and female empowerment content are the same type of thing. RP is not automatically a scam. At its core, a lot of RP advice is just harsh male self-improvement: get in shape, make money, stop being needy, build discipline, understand female behavior, and stop expecting sympathy to fix your life. You can disagree with parts of it, but that is not the same as it being a scam. A scam usually sells comfort, fantasy, or an easy identity. A lot…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/06/26 02:56 AM
11	Feminists complaining about issues like women being objectified, or approached by men is always the most frustrating thing ever, due to their cognitive dissonance in their expectations for men in society. Yeah, women can complain about that because a lot of the time the real issue is not being approached in itself. It is being approached by men they do not find attractive or desirable. That is where the contradiction comes in. Men are still generally expected to initiate, approach, flirt, and create opportunities. Yet when the wrong man does it, it gets framed as creepy, objectifying, or unwanted attention. Obviously harassment is different. Nobody is saying women should tolerate men being aggres…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/06/26 02:11 AM
3	Misandry Is Real, But It Isn't Comparable to Misogyny Misandry and misogyny do not need to be identical to both be serious. The fact that misogyny has produced more organized extremist violence does not mean misandry is socially harmless or irrelevant. A lot of anti-male bias does not show up as “I hate men” terrorism. It shows up through male disposability, harsher sentencing, lower sympathy for male victims, higher tolerance for male suffering, selective concern around mental health, and the idea that struggling men are personally defective. So I…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/06/26 12:01 AM
1	The stay at home wife is not traditional and is mostly a myth. None of that really addresses my point, though. I've never argued that women had easy lives, didn't work, or didn't face serious risks. Of course laundry was physically demanding, childbirth was dangerous, and women often performed difficult labor. The point is that acknowledging female hardships doesn't disprove the existence of male-specific obligations and burdens that fell disproportionately on men. Historically, societies generally expected men to be the primary providers, to perform much o…	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/06/26 11:39 PM
1	Putting in less effort in attracting women actually works. I think there's some truth to this, but it's easier said than done for most men. The reality is that most men don't have women constantly showing interest in them, so dating often becomes a numbers game. That naturally pushes men toward trying to be interesting, funny, impressive, charming, or whatever else they believe will improve their odds. When you're getting little to no attention, "just stop trying so hard" can sound great in theory, but many men have learned that doing nothing usually ge…	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/06/26 08:01 PM
11	Is an average woman dating an average man considered "settling?" Question 1: If women allegedly always want "more" than what they are, would an average woman dating someone "in her league" always mean that she's settling? Yeah, she absolutely can be settling if her standards are unrealistic relative to what she can actually attract and keep long term. That's the part I think gets lost in these discussions. Just because someone wants more doesn't mean they're going to get more. Everyone has preferences that exceed what they can realistically obtain. The bigger…	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/06/26 07:13 PM
3	Putting in less effort in attracting women actually works. A lot of men are taught that if they just try harder, impress more, text more, validate more, and invest more, women will become more attracted to them. In reality, constantly seeking approval often has the opposite effect. The men who tend to do best are usually the ones who already have fulfilling lives and aren't looking to women to provide their sense of worth. That's not because women consciously reward indifference. It's because confidence, independence, and self-sufficiency are generally …	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/06/26 07:02 PM
3	Men and women do not live the same life Of course your point makes sense if you take my argument to that extreme, but that's not what I said. I never claimed women can sit at home, do absolutely nothing, and have relationships magically appear. My point was that shyness and passivity generally cost men more than they cost women. Women still have to socialize, go places, use apps, meet people, and put themselves in situations where dating can happen. The difference is that women are usually more likely to receive interest once they're …	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/06/26 06:50 PM
2	Men and women do not live the same life Yeah, but the main point still has merit. Women generally have it easier in this area, while men usually can't afford to be shy and passive if they want results.	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/06/26 06:35 PM
7	Men and women do not live the same life I think you're overstating how much initiative the average woman needs to take compared to the average man. I'm not saying women do absolutely nothing. Obviously women go to social events, use dating apps, talk to people, maintain their appearance, and put themselves in situations where they can meet men. The difference is that most women can do those things and still receive interest without being the one who has to initiate everything. Most men don't have that luxury. Men are generally expecte…	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/06/26 06:26 PM
1	The entire strategy men are going for in life is to trade women like pokemon cards. Well, if men are expected to do most of the work in dating, then I don't see why it's wrong for men to move in a way that benefits them when they actually have the ability to do so. The reality is that most men don't even have the leverage you're describing. Most aren't juggling women, playing hot and cold, or refusing commitment because they're drowning in options. Most men are trying to get options in the first place. So it seems like the OP is taking the behavior of a relatively small group o…	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/06/26 05:27 AM
2	The difficulty gap between attractive and unattractive women is not large enough to justify lowering your standards as a man. It is for a woman Not much of one. Most women have easier access to dating and hookups than men do, even when the woman in question isn't particularly attractive. That's why I don't think the scale is nearly as significant on the women's side.	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/06/26 04:27 AM
11	Men and women do not live the same life Yeah, it might not be the average, but the main point still stands. A man generally has to be pretty good to get results in a way that isn't required for women, especially when it comes to being passive or shy. An average woman can often remain passive and still have opportunities come her way, while an average man usually has to take initiative and put himself out there if he wants similar results.	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/06/26 03:35 AM
2	Men and women do not live the same life Well, the main point was that effort is required as a man. He can't afford to be shy and passive and still expect success. The men you saw likely put in the work to make that happen. They had to take initiative, build confidence, improve themselves, and create opportunities instead of waiting for them to appear.	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/06/26 03:18 AM
1	Men and women do not live the same life Yeah, being a woman generally comes with much easier access to dating opportunities. Even women who are average or below average in attractiveness often have more dating options than many men who are objectively more attractive, successful, or accomplished. That doesn't mean women have no dating problems, but there is a major difference between struggling to choose among options and struggling to get options at all. A lot of dating discussions gloss over that distinction. An average woman can us…	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/06/26 03:11 AM
11	Men and women do not live the same life I don't think that really disproves the point. The fact that a shy, socially withdrawn man often struggles more in dating than a shy, socially withdrawn woman is part of the argument. A woman can be quiet, passive, socially awkward, and largely keep to herself while still receiving romantic interest. A man in the same position is much more likely to be invisible. That's because men are generally expected to initiate, pursue, escalate, and create opportunities. So even if we're talking about the …	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/06/26 02:27 AM
5	If women say they want emotional honesty and vulnerability in men, why do so many still lose attraction the moment a man actually stops pretending to be emotionally invincible ? A lot of it is because people don't always accurately predict what they'll be attracted to in practice. Many women genuinely believe they want emotional vulnerability, but when it shows up in a real relationship, it can sometimes affect attraction differently than they expected. Men being vulnerable can absolutely be a turnoff for some women, even if those same women say they value vulnerability. That's not necessarily because they're lying. It's often because what people say they want and what …	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/06/26 01:31 AM
1	The reason men and women can't empathize with each other's dating woes is because we are experiencing fundamentally different realities. Then it sounds like we're largely in agreement on the actual dynamic. My point was never that women should lower their standards or that there's something morally wrong with women filtering for traits they value. It was simply that when many people pursue a similar package of highly desirable traits, demand becomes concentrated and some predictable outcomes follow. As you said, we're already seeing some of those outcomes: more people staying single, more women opting out of dating, and more men …	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/06/26 01:25 AM
1	Why is the media women consume always sexual? That one had a very strong female audience as well though.	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/06/26 12:54 AM
1	The reason men and women can't empathize with each other's dating woes is because we are experiencing fundamentally different realities. I think you're reading a lot more into my argument than what I actually said. I never said men who check all the boxes are assholes, nor did I say women should lower their standards. I also never said there was anything morally wrong with some men having more options than others. My point was much simpler: when large numbers of women filter for the same highly desirable traits, demand becomes concentrated on a smaller pool of men. Those men then tend to have more options than average men. That i…	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/06/26 12:50 AM
1	"Women should take me as I am!" is men also being picky like women if he's not likable. You're missing the point. I never claimed you said "most men." I pointed out that "a pattern I see with guys here" is still a broad claim about a category of men you're discussing. You're arguing that when these men are pressed on their standards, they turn out to be no different from the women they criticize. My response addressed that claim directly. I disagreed that the standards being discussed are usually equivalent. So whether the group is "most men" or "guys here" isn't really the issue. …	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/06/26 12:42 AM
1	Why is women's popular music so much more sexual than mens? That type of music typically resonates with a good deal of women for a variety of reasons. If there wasn't a market for it, labels wouldn't keep producing it. Female pop music is also primarily marketed to women, so audience demand is probably a large part of the explanation. If songs about sexuality, desire, hookups, and empowerment keep succeeding, that suggests a lot of women enjoy those themes rather than them simply being imposed by the industry. I also think the difference may be overstate…	/r/PurplePillDebate	05/06/26 05:22 PM
1	The reason men and women can't empathize with each other's dating woes is because we are experiencing fundamentally different realities. That's exactly what OP is saying. He is literally claiming that women expecting xyz from men before dating them is 'anti-feminist'. Well of course I didn't mean that literally no person on Earth is saying compatibility standards are bad. It was a figure of speech. My point was that the argument I was making was not based on compatibility standards being bad and that most people would agree they are generally reasonable. The point was about the effects of those standards, not whether people are a…	/r/PurplePillDebate	05/06/26 05:11 PM
1	Why is the media women consume always sexual? I mean, they aren’t really known for that at all, but they have some sexual scenes in there for sure. A show that would fit that description better, though not for a good reason, would actually be Oz, if anything.	/r/PurplePillDebate	05/06/26 04:49 PM
1	"Women should take me as I am!" is men also being picky like women if he's not likable. Your post says, "A pattern I see with guys here is that they always want to treat their standards as reasonable, but when you press them on it, it's actually no different from the women they criticize." That's a broad claim about the guys you're discussing, not a handful of specific examples. Looks like you need to reread your own stuff before trying to challenge someone on what they say in response.	/r/PurplePillDebate	05/06/26 04:38 PM
1	"Women should take me as I am!" is men also being picky like women if he's not likable. I did address it. The post claims that when you examine men's standards closely, they are often no different from the women they criticize. My point is that this is frequently not true. So you are the one that needs to stick to what someone is saying.	/r/PurplePillDebate	05/06/26 04:35 PM
4	Why is the media women consume always sexual? Saying “extremely sexual” is probably going a little too far. Yeah, both shows have sexual content, but it’s not like sex dominates the series. Plenty of episodes have little to no actual sex, and the sexual content is usually tied to the characters, crime world, relationships, or setting rather than being the whole point of the show. I’d call them adult dramas with some sexual content, not extremely sexual shows.	/r/PurplePillDebate	05/06/26 04:25 PM
35	The media narrative about AI girlfriends and AI boyfriends is opposite People keep acting like the AI is the story when the reaction is the story. When women disengage from men, society tends to interpret it as a rational response to dissatisfaction. When men disengage from women, society tends to interpret it as a social failure that needs correcting. That's why one group gets articles about empowerment while the other gets articles about risks, dangers, and intervention. What's funny is that both groups are ultimately doing the same thing: opting out of a dating …	/r/PurplePillDebate	05/06/26 04:08 PM
1	The difficulty gap between attractive and unattractive women is not large enough to justify lowering your standards as a man. It is for a woman Yes, and that's part of why I find the criticism interesting. Men generally have a much harder path when it comes to generating attraction and dating success. They often have to improve their appearance, confidence, finances, social skills, and overall lifestyle before they start seeing meaningful results. Despite that, men are frequently criticized for having preferences at all. A man can spend years building himself up and still get pushback for wanting a partner he finds attractive or compati…	/r/PurplePillDebate	05/06/26 03:06 PM
2	The reason men and women can't empathize with each other's dating woes is because we are experiencing fundamentally different realities. Nobody is saying compatibility standards are bad. Most people would agree that shared values, similar life goals, compatible lifestyles, and mutual attraction are important. The point I was making is that some standards can concentrate a lot of attention on the same small group of highly desirable people. If a large number of women want a man who is highly educated, financially successful, attractive, socially skilled, confident, well-traveled, emotionally intelligent, shares their politics, sha…	/r/PurplePillDebate	05/06/26 02:04 PM
2	"Women should take me as I am!" is men also being picky like women if he's not likable. That doesn't really address what I said. Whether most men like red pill or not has nothing to do with whether men's standards are usually as unrealistic as people claim.	/r/PurplePillDebate	05/06/26 01:52 PM
2	Cheating is almost inevitable in human relationships. Yeah, it can happen, especially since men are biologically wired to desire more than one woman. That doesn't automatically mean they'll cheat, but it does mean the temptation can be there even in a good relationship. If a man has earned enough status, attractiveness, or success that he suddenly has access to options he never had before, it can become much harder to resist the urge to explore those opportunities, especially if he has always wanted to sleep around at some point. That's one reason …	/r/PurplePillDebate	05/06/26 05:14 AM
4	The reason men and women can't empathize with each other's dating woes is because we are experiencing fundamentally different realities. I don't think that's a safe strategy either. A lot of the time it just results in the most attractive, highest-status, and most desired men getting a free pass because they're exactly the men large numbers of women are pursuing. If a woman's standards lead her to compete for the same small group of highly desirable men as everyone else, those men often have the most options and therefore the least pressure to commit. That's why having higher standards doesn't automatically prevent bad experience…	/r/PurplePillDebate	05/06/26 04:51 AM
2	Women saying they wouldn't date younger is meaningless. Yeah, as long as it's legal, it's silly to shame men for pursuing the women they want. Men generally have to do the approaching, risk rejection, and put in the work to make dating happen in the first place. If a man puts in that effort and successfully dates a younger woman, especially one who has plenty of options herself, it's odd to act like something improper happened simply because he succeeded. A lot of these conversations seem to assume younger women have no agency at all. If she's an adu…	/r/PurplePillDebate	05/06/26 04:40 AM
1	Women saying they wouldn't date younger is meaningless. It's not really that crazy. Women in their early 20s are typically around the age range that many men find most physically attractive. So acting like the only explanation is "older men want to bang college girls" skips over the fact that male attraction patterns have been pretty consistent for a long time. You can argue whether an age-gap relationship is a good idea or not, but being attracted to a 20-something woman isn't some mysterious or shocking behavior that requires a sinister explanation…	/r/PurplePillDebate	05/06/26 04:30 AM
6	"Women should take me as I am!" is men also being picky like women if he's not likable. I don't think that's usually true. Most men are not walking around demanding some perfect 10/10 dream woman. A lot of men are actually pretty flexible compared to what women are willing to accept, especially when it comes to looks, income, height, status, education, or social position. The problem is that people often define "reasonable" in a way that only applies to men. If a man says he doesn't want a woman who is far beneath what he finds attractive or compatible, suddenly he's accused of bei…	/r/PurplePillDebate	05/06/26 04:01 AM
2	The stay at home wife is not traditional and is mostly a myth. I think you're attacking a strawman that very few traditionalists actually believe. Most people are not claiming women never worked. The question is what kinds of work men and women were expected to do and what obligations were attached to each sex. Women absolutely worked throughout history. Farming, textiles, factories, household production, and countless other forms of labor were essential. Nobody serious denies that. The problem is that "women worked too" doesn't actually address the traditi…	/r/PurplePillDebate	05/06/26 03:55 AM
1	Women who call themselves "baddie" are just as cringe, if not more cringe, than men who call themselves "alpha". Yeah but women can pretty much call themselves baddies regardless of where they actually rank and receive little to no pushback for it. Men generally don’t get that same luxury with alpha.	/r/PurplePillDebate	05/06/26 03:15 AM
3	Red Pill and SheraSeven Content Are More Similar Than Different I think the differences between RP and SheraSeven are often overstated. People will correctly point out that RP spends more time discussing self-improvement, while SheraSeven spends more time discussing selection and standards. That's a real difference. The problem is that it doesn't change the underlying framework both are operating from. Both view dating as a marketplace. Both discuss leverage, value, incentives, standards, and avoiding exploitation. Both tell their audience to stop being naiv…	/r/PurplePillDebate	05/06/26 02:41 AM
1	Leonardo DiCaprio is only doing what is natural to most men for preferring women in their prime over women his own age. Yeah, if they don’t have much choice, it is a good fallback option.	/r/PurplePillDebate	05/06/26 02:33 AM
7	Misandry is more prevalent than misogyny Yeah, that's exactly the problem. People keep pretending this is about which side is worse when the real issue is the double standard being applied. Society is far more accepting of hostility toward men than hostility toward women. A man can make a mild criticism of women and immediately get accused of misogyny, sexism, or hatred. Meanwhile, women can make sweeping negative statements about men, mock male loneliness, dismiss men's issues, or openly generalize about men, and people rush to explai…	/r/PurplePillDebate	04/06/26 07:25 PM
6	Red pill tactics and female dating tactics are the same thing I don't think the comparison works as neatly as you're making it sound. RP isn't simply "withhold attention to get a reaction." A huge portion of RP is focused on self-improvement, increasing your own value, understanding attraction, avoiding one-sided investment, and recognizing when a woman isn't genuinely interested. A lot of the advice boils down to "stop chasing people who aren't reciprocating." Female dating strategies are often framed as screening, but many of the popular examples go beyo…	/r/PurplePillDebate	04/06/26 06:45 PM
1	Women who call themselves "baddie" are just as cringe, if not more cringe, than men who call themselves "alpha". Yeah, especially since the term "baddie" has become so overused that it barely means anything anymore. At least when someone calls himself an alpha male, he's usually trying to signal a specific set of traits, whether people agree with it or not. "Baddie" has gotten so broad that it can basically apply to almost any woman who posts selfies, wears makeup, follows trends, or has a social media account. The label has become more of a self-assigned compliment than an actual descriptor. That's part o…	/r/PurplePillDebate	04/06/26 06:27 PM
6	What do women know about men that men don't know about themselves? Women often understand men's desire for female validation better than men do themselves. A lot of men believe they're chasing success, status, money, fitness, or confidence purely for themselves when, at least in part, they're chasing the social and sexual validation that comes with those things. Women also tend to notice how much many men are willing to tolerate for attraction. Men will often claim they have strict standards, strong boundaries, and won't put up with nonsense, then completely ab…	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/06/26 05:19 PM
1	Why do you think some women feel entitled to fight men without retaliation? Yeah, part of the reason this dynamic exists is that society puts far more emphasis on men not hitting women than it does on women not hitting men in the first place. From a young age, men are taught that under almost no circumstances should they hit a woman. The message aimed at women about initiating violence is often much weaker. That creates a situation where some women know the social and legal risks are overwhelmingly on the man's side. If a man retaliates, even in self-defense, there's a …	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/06/26 05:09 PM
–	Having female friends is absolutely a positive in dating Yeah, it can be beneficial, but I think a lot depends on why the friendship exists in the first place. If a man genuinely enjoys her company and isn't sitting there hoping the friendship turns romantic one day, then having female friends can absolutely provide different perspectives and broaden his social circle. The problem is that a lot of so-called friendships aren't actually friendships. Sometimes a guy is only there because he's interested in her, got friendzoned, and is sticking around hop…	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/06/26 04:56 PM
2	Negative experiences can make it easy to assume the worst about an entire group, even when those experiences don't represent everyone. Yeah, that can definitely happen, especially if someone keeps choosing the same type of bad partner and then uses those experiences to judge an entire gender. If someone repeatedly picks manipulative, selfish, or toxic people, eventually it's easy to start thinking that's what all men or all women are like. The experiences themselves are real, but the conclusion doesn't necessarily follow. A handful of bad experiences can make the worst examples feel representative when they often aren't. It sou…	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/06/26 05:08 AM
1	Society is 'equal' everywhere except the expensive, high-risk part where men have to audition I think we're talking past each other a bit, which is probably how we ended up here. My original point was never that average men literally cannot be selective, cannot reject bad behavior, or must accept being the sole planner, financier, and pursuer. An average man can absolutely walk away from unreasonable expectations. He can refuse to tolerate nonsense. He can choose to remain single rather than accept a bad deal. Where I think the conversation shifted is that I started talking about leverag…	/r/PurplePillDebate	03/06/26 04:56 AM
3	Do men actually want children, or do they just follow the expected path? Yeah, some people definitely have children because it's expected. Family, culture, religion, and social pressure can all push people toward marriage and parenthood even if they never deeply examined whether they actually wanted it. At the same time, plenty of people genuinely want children. For some, the idea of building a family, passing something on, having a legacy, or raising the next generation is meaningful enough to justify the sacrifices involved. That can be a powerful motivation indepe…	/r/PurplePillDebate	02/06/26 03:35 PM
5	Most men watch porn, most women are creeped out by porn. Isn't this the gender war already? Yeah, it definitely affects real-life relationships. A lot of people dismiss these discussions as "terminally online," but pornography is a good example of an issue that exists far beyond the internet debate space. Many women are uncomfortable with porn use, many men consume it, and couples regularly disagree about boundaries surrounding it. That isn't some niche Reddit argument. It's something that comes up in actual relationships and can affect trust, attraction, intimacy, expectations, and ov…	/r/PurplePillDebate	02/06/26 03:08 PM
2	Women feels more entitled than most men. Yeah, that's basically what I was saying. Society allows women to frame their standards as natural, biological, or just "knowing their worth" without much pushback or shame. Men are expected to accept that reality. If women prefer taller men, richer men, more masculine men, or higher-status men, men are told attraction is not negotiable and they need to deal with it. The issue is that men are not given that same grace. When men have standards around weight, body count, age, femininity, or attrac…	/r/PurplePillDebate	02/06/26 02:59 PM
–	Creative and high energy dates are mostly a waste of time Yeah, part of the reason this has become controversial is because a lot of modern dating expectations seem to assume relationship-level effort before a relationship even exists. The point of an early date is supposed to be finding out whether you actually like each other, not proving your creativity, spending power, or entertainment value. If there is genuine desire and interest, a woman usually won't require some elaborate production just to give a guy a chance. Two people can learn a lot about…	/r/PurplePillDebate	02/06/26 05:47 AM
2	"meet my standards", "not settling", "treat me the way i deserve" ect. All of these buzz phrases at the core is just hypergamy, I think the biggest reason people react negatively to the word hypergamy is because it strips away the flattering language people prefer to use. Saying "I want a man who is taller, earns more than me, has status, confidence, ambition, and can provide a certain lifestyle" sounds a lot less noble than saying "I know my worth" or "I have standards." Yet in practice, those phrases are often describing the same filtering process. The interesting part is that nobody gets upset when men are told to acc…	/r/PurplePillDebate	02/06/26 02:16 AM
5	Women feels more entitled than most men. Part of the issue is that men are constantly told to accept standards being imposed on them. If women prefer taller men, more successful men, more confident men, or more attractive men, men are told to deal with it, improve themselves, and understand that attraction isn't negotiable. What creates friction is when standards start getting applied in the other direction. Suddenly discussions become much more critical of selectivity, beauty standards, or preferences. Men are generally expected to ad…	/r/PurplePillDebate	02/06/26 01:30 AM
4	Limit your options for better dating results You're kind of proving my point here. You keep redefining opportunities so narrowly that they only count if they were going to succeed anyway. That's easy to do in hindsight. Before the approach happens, most men don't know with certainty whether a woman is compatible, interested, or open to dating them. That's why approaches happen in the first place. Your brain surgeon analogy doesn't really work because a drop-out can know beforehand that he isn't qualified to be a brain surgeon. Dating isn't…	/r/PurplePillDebate	02/06/26 01:20 AM
3	Society is 'equal' everywhere except the expensive, high-risk part where men have to audition Your example is still largely based on the perspective of a man who already has enough opportunities to walk away and move on to the next woman. The disagreement is not about whether men should be selective once they have options. Most people would agree with that. The disagreement is about how many men actually have enough options to comfortably do it. If a guy meets a woman who expects him to plan everything, pay for everything, and prove himself, then yes, he can reject that and move on. The …	/r/PurplePillDebate	01/06/26 10:42 PM
3	Limit your options for better dating results The problem with that analogy is that job applications are not dating. In your example, you already know which jobs you're qualified for before you apply. The entire issue many men face in dating is that they often don't know where they realistically stand until after they take the shot. That makes quantity much more important because the filtering happens after the approach, not before it. The other issue is that your example assumes there are plenty of quality opportunities available to choose…	/r/PurplePillDebate	01/06/26 10:27 PM
3	Limit your options for better dating results The entire basis of the idea that women have a bunch of options is that anyone who's open to sex is an option. If it actually means someone who's a compatible and willing potential partner, women's option counts plummet. They plummet, but women still generally find options they are at least attracted enough to, compatible enough with, or able to build something with. Most people don't end up with their dream partner, so that isn't really the standard. The standard is finding someone who is good …	/r/PurplePillDebate	01/06/26 08:39 PM
9	Dating offline is honestly worse than online dating for most Gen Z men who want to date Gen Z women Yeah, they have to attack the problem from every angle they can, which means getting on all the apps and maybe even pursuing women who are at least passable enough for something short-term. That can be difficult for some men if the woman really isn't their type, but at least it gives them some experience and something in the meantime.	/r/PurplePillDebate	01/06/26 08:19 PM
27	Dating offline is honestly worse than online dating for most Gen Z men who want to date Gen Z women Yeah, the difficulty is going to be there regardless if a man isn't all that attractive. There is no magic place where average or below-average men suddenly become highly desired. The same traits that make dating difficult on apps usually make it difficult offline too. That is why a lot of dating advice misses the mark. People act like deleting the apps automatically fixes the problem, when in reality the same man still has to compete in the same dating market. Whether it's apps, bars, hobby gro…	/r/PurplePillDebate	01/06/26 08:07 PM
2	Limit your options for better dating results That argument only works if you define “options” as literally any woman alive in the area. Most people don’t use the word that way. When men say they have no options, they usually mean they have no realistic options they are attracted to, compatible with, or able to build anything with. Saying “there are homeless, obese, much older, divorced, or single-parent women around” doesn’t really refute that. Having people exist near you is not the same as having viable romantic options. By that logic, n…	/r/PurplePillDebate	01/06/26 07:56 PM
5	Society is 'equal' everywhere except the expensive, high-risk part where men have to audition That sounds nice in theory, but it doesn't really address the point being made. A man can value his singledom and still recognize that he has fewer dating options than a woman. Those are two separate questions. Being content alone doesn't magically create romantic opportunities. By that logic, women who enjoy being single would also stop benefiting from having more options, which obviously isn't true. The existence of alternatives and the ability to walk away from bad options are still advantage…	/r/PurplePillDebate	01/06/26 07:47 PM
6	Limit your options for better dating results That sounds more like advice for women than for men. Most men are not sitting there with so many options that their biggest problem is narrowing the pool. A lot of men are struggling just to get enough options in the first place. The "grass is greener" mindset tends to be a problem that comes from abundance. If you always have another match, another DM, another date, or another person waiting in line, it's easier to keep comparing and never commit. That is a very different situation from someone…	/r/PurplePillDebate	01/06/26 08:15 AM
16	The Selectors Trying to Minimize the Privilege of Being the Selectors Yeah, women pretend their role is harder because society allows them to frame it that way. Filtering through options can be annoying, but it is still a better problem than not having options in the first place. Men do not just struggle to get matches, interest, dates, and opportunities. If they do get them, they can still run into the same problems women complain about: bad dates, ghosting, being used, low effort, dishonesty, and people who are not serious. The difference is that men usually dea…	/r/PurplePillDebate	01/06/26 05:50 AM
1	Society is 'equal' everywhere except the expensive, high-risk part where men have to audition I think you're defining "work" in a very narrow way. Just because something isn't physically difficult doesn't mean it isn't effort. Approaching, initiating, planning, paying, risking rejection, carrying the conversation, and repeatedly putting yourself out there are all forms of effort. Most people would call that work even if it's not backbreaking labor. The woman having to be attractive or engaging doesn't really make it equal either because men are generally expected to clear those same bars…	/r/PurplePillDebate	01/06/26 05:26 AM
–	Most men do not have passions or hobbies in their life because they focus more on getting a job and making money, even if it is not what they are passionate about, for a stable family. Yeah, they can do it for their own personal well-being, especially if obtaining women isn't all that easy for them. If a man is constantly struggling in dating, it makes sense for him to build a life where his happiness and self-worth aren't completely dependent on whether women choose him. That doesn't automatically mean he hates women or is trying to get back at them. Sometimes it's just a practical response to a situation where romantic success is difficult, inconsistent, or largely outside o…	/r/PurplePillDebate	01/06/26 03:48 AM
3	Sexism is bad, and “decentering” men and women leads to sexist echo chambers. The problem with this argument is that it assumes red pill "decentering" is primarily about resentment when, for many men, it starts as a response to repeated failure and disappointment in dating. A lot of men don't arrive at the conclusion that they should focus on themselves because they hate women. They arrive there because tying their self-worth to female approval produced bad outcomes. If a man spends years being told that confidence, success, fitness, and self-improvement are attractive, t…	/r/PurplePillDebate	01/06/26 03:37 AM
2	Society is 'equal' everywhere except the expensive, high-risk part where men have to audition You're kind of proving the original point, though. You're saying women have no reason to make courtship more equal because the current arrangement benefits them and helps filter for the men they want. That's a much different argument than claiming courtship is already equal. It's basically admitting that traditional expectations are being preserved because women see value in them. The risk argument also doesn't automatically justify every expectation placed on men. Women face certain risks in da…	/r/PurplePillDebate	01/06/26 03:20 AM
2	Society is 'equal' everywhere except the expensive, high-risk part where men have to audition The problem is that you're assuming the later stages of a relationship justify unequal expectations at the beginning. Not every relationship leads to marriage, kids, or decades together. Many men are expected to carry more of the burden during courtship without ever reaching the stage where these later contributions supposedly balance things out. You're also treating your assumption as settled fact. Plenty of men would argue that working full-time, paying a larger share of expenses, handling cer…	/r/PurplePillDebate	31/05/26 09:56 PM
–	Does Saying “Women Don’t Need Men Anymore” Imply That Men Were Mainly Valued for Providing Resources? Well yeah, whether they want to admit it or not, some women did mostly see men as wallets, especially if they were not that attracted to the man in the first place. That is probably why the "women don't need men anymore" line comes off the way it does. If men were valued mostly for love, companionship, family, emotional support, and partnership, then women being financially independent would not suddenly make men irrelevant. The fact that people frame it that way kind of admits that a lot of men…	/r/PurplePillDebate	31/05/26 09:03 PM
1	If you are not willing to adapt to the dating market, your complaints about dating is unreasonable. Reread what I said again; I was speaking of women.	/r/PurplePillDebate	31/05/26 08:57 PM
1	Do you think women are partnering with men less because they are being influenced/brainwashed my feminism now. Or do you think the reason women overwhelmingly partnered with men in the past was because they were influenced/brainwashed by traditional culture? I'd say it's both. Modern culture has pushed women toward prioritizing independence, careers, personal goals, and lifestyles that don't necessarily revolve around marriage or children. At the same time, feminism has encouraged women to question traditional relationship expectations and be more selective about the relationships they enter. Women now have far more alternatives to relationships than they did in the past, so relationships are competing against those alternatives in a way they never …	/r/PurplePillDebate	31/05/26 08:50 PM
1	If you are not willing to adapt to the dating market, your complaints about dating is unreasonable. You must’ve never watched those shows; that’s how they do it on there, and women do that to men all the time, even before they get that close. I’ve seen ones where, as soon as he is shown, they are popping immediately. So maybe you need to do some more research on this type of show before making comments. This is just how that show works.	/r/PurplePillDebate	31/05/26 08:43 PM
3	Society is 'equal' everywhere except the expensive, high-risk part where men have to audition That doesn't really address the argument being made. The discussion is about whether dating expectations are equal during courtship. Pointing to what happens later in a relationship doesn't automatically justify unequal expectations at the beginning. By that logic, you could justify almost any imbalance by appealing to something that might happen years later. Not every relationship has kids, not every relationship lasts long term, and plenty of men never make it to the stage you're talking about…	/r/PurplePillDebate	31/05/26 08:36 PM
1	If you are not willing to adapt to the dating market, your complaints about dating is unreasonable. Horrible comparison, lol. If a man isn’t into trans, then it isn’t an option at all. BTW, that show has women pop immediately all the time for guys they don’t like, so you saying that really is silly considering that. The show has always been about popping balloons, which can be done at any point. Also they don't need to listen to RP to not be into trans women. Most men aren't so that was a bad statement as well.	/r/PurplePillDebate	31/05/26 08:30 PM
–	“Giving someone a chance” is a selfish mindset and comes from a place of superiority I don't think those are mutually exclusive. A lot of introspection happens because of interactions with other people. Sometimes you don't realize a preference is more flexible than you thought until you actually meet someone who challenges it. If the standard is that nobody should ever date outside their established type unless they've already completely changed while single, then you're setting up an unrealistic requirement. Plenty of people discover attraction can grow through getting to know …	/r/PurplePillDebate	31/05/26 08:27 PM
2	If you are not willing to adapt to the dating market, your complaints about dating is unreasonable. I mean, technically 5 year olds are allowed to complain too. Sure, but the point wasn't that every complaint is automatically valid. The point was that men having frustrations with dating doesn't become unreasonable simply because they're voicing those frustrations. And? The point is that women complain about dating despite generally having an easier time getting dates, attention, and romantic interest. So it's odd to act like men complaining is somehow uniquely unreasonable. Most men saw this v…	/r/PurplePillDebate	31/05/26 08:22 PM
7	Society is 'equal' everywhere except the expensive, high-risk part where men have to audition Yeah, I'm sure most men already know that. It's mostly common sense. The problem is that if a man can't really get much, his desperation can end up pushing him toward options he doesn't prefer as much. That's the case for a lot of people, but it tends to happen more with men, especially when the woman they settle for is really off the mark from what they actually wanted.	/r/PurplePillDebate	31/05/26 06:12 AM
1	TRP was Never Going to Work for Most Men. An Ideology based on Potential Most Men Never had I don't really disagree with most of that. If everyone is closer together on the universally attractive traits, then individual preferences probably do matter more. My point is just that this doesn't eliminate the importance of relative ranking. It just changes what people are ranking each other on. Even in your tribe example, the men are still being compared against each other. The competition didn't disappear. It just shifted from obvious differences like wealth, fitness, and status to more in…	/r/PurplePillDebate	31/05/26 05:15 AM
1	Paper abortion means giving all remaining advantage to men without leaving any to women I don't see how that leaves women "fucked" when women would still have more post-conception options than men. If a woman doesn't want the child, she has options. Depending on where she lives, she may have access to abortion, the ability to travel to another state, organizations that help women obtain services, and other resources. Before pregnancy even occurs, women also have access to multiple forms of contraception that they directly control. The man, meanwhile, has no post-conception choice a…	/r/PurplePillDebate	31/05/26 04:20 AM
1	Paper abortion means giving all remaining advantage to men without leaving any to women That still doesn’t answer why the current imbalance should be accepted as fair. Saying biology is unequal explains why the situation is complicated, but it doesn’t prove the legal outcome should leave men with no post-conception choice at all. Paper abortion wouldn’t give men control over a woman’s body. She would still decide whether to continue the pregnancy or not. It would only mean the man is not forced into legal and financial parenthood after she makes a choice he has no power over. Calli…	/r/PurplePillDebate	31/05/26 03:29 AM
–	Orgasm gap is just experience gap. Well, after all the work that goes into getting women for some men, it's not surprising that some end up viewing sex as the reward at the end of the process rather than something that requires even more effort and learning. Current dating culture can sometimes reinforce that mindset. That said, I think these discussions often become too one-sided. Women should be putting effort into the bedroom as well, and that isn't always the case. A lot of the conversation focuses on what men need to do bett…	/r/PurplePillDebate	31/05/26 03:15 AM
–	“Giving someone a chance” is a selfish mindset and comes from a place of superiority If most women aren't attracted to most guys off the rip, then "giving someone a chance" is almost inevitable for a lot of relationships. Most women are not going to end up with the small percentage of men they're immediately most attracted to. At some point they either stay single or become open to attraction growing through familiarity, personality, comfort, shared experiences, and time.	/r/PurplePillDebate	31/05/26 03:10 AM
9	Society is 'equal' everywhere except the expensive, high-risk part where men have to audition Yeah, not every man gets that chance. Would be nice, though.	/r/PurplePillDebate	31/05/26 03:07 AM
2	Social media represents how people feel insinde Yeah, especially from the male side. A lot of men are far less comfortable expressing certain frustrations in public because there is a much higher risk of being labeled bitter, insecure, misogynistic, or sexist. Social media gives people a place to say things they would never say face-to-face without social consequences. That doesn't mean every complaint is valid, but it does mean many of those views likely existed long before they were posted online. That is why dismissing everything as "just …	/r/PurplePillDebate	31/05/26 02:03 AM
2	If you are not willing to adapt to the dating market, your complaints about dating is unreasonable. Men definitely are. The bigger issue is that a lot of women are willing to acknowledge bad behavior in men while being far less willing to acknowledge bad behavior in women. You regularly see criticism of toxic men, but criticism of toxic women often gets minimized, excused, or reframed into a discussion about men instead. That makes it harder to have an honest conversation about the role some women play in dating problems because the focus quickly shifts away from examining female behavior at a…	/r/PurplePillDebate	31/05/26 01:45 AM
5	Do Women Understand How They Help Power Red Pill/Manosphere Content? Yeah, they do. The issue is that a lot of them are more focused on condemning RP than asking why certain parts of it keep getting traction. You can call RP toxic all day, but if women are online saying men are disposable, men should “man up,” men are only valuable if they provide, men are weak for struggling, or men are useless outside of money, then RP creators are obviously going to clip that and use it as proof. That does not mean RP is always right. It means the material they react to is rea…	/r/PurplePillDebate	31/05/26 01:20 AM
2	Ladies, why do women say “don’t objectify me” while going on to post provocative photos and dress proactively in public? Then get upset when someone comments on it? Yeah, a lot of women say they don't want to be objectified, but at the same time many enjoy the attention that comes from being viewed as attractive. Those two things are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Most people like positive attention. The distinction is usually that they want to be seen as more than just their appearance, not that they want nobody to notice their appearance at all. That said, I can understand why some men get confused when someone posts highly appearance-focused content…	/r/PurplePillDebate	31/05/26 12:46 AM
8	Society is 'equal' everywhere except the expensive, high-risk part where men have to audition That doesn't really address the point being made. Nobody is claiming women don't have standards or don't reject people. The argument is that men are generally expected to do more of the initiating, pursuing, planning, paying, and proving themselves before they even get to the stage where they can be selective. Not marrying the first woman who showed interest is just having standards. Men have standards too. The question is whether both sides are carrying the same burden during courtship. Choosin…	/r/PurplePillDebate	31/05/26 12:40 AM
–	“Giving someone a chance” is a selfish mindset and comes from a place of superiority The problem with this argument is that it ignores how dating works for a lot of men. A man might find models to be his ideal type, but if models are not interested in him and the women he can realistically attract are average women or bigger women, what exactly is he supposed to do? Stay single forever? Most men do not have the luxury of only dating their absolute ideal. They have to work with the options available to them. That doesn't automatically mean they're treating those women as a backup…	/r/PurplePillDebate	31/05/26 12:35 AM
1	Paper abortion means giving all remaining advantage to men without leaving any to women Nah, the current system isn't fair either. Once sex has happened, men effectively lose all reproductive choice. If the woman wants an abortion, the man can't stop it. If she wants to keep the child, the man can't stop that either. His preferences don't ultimately determine the outcome in either direction. The argument keeps focusing on the fact that pregnancy is unequal, which is true, but that doesn't automatically make the legal situation fair. The woman gets the final say over whether parenth…	/r/PurplePillDebate	31/05/26 12:26 AM
7	If you are not willing to adapt to the dating market, your complaints about dating is unreasonable. Nah, it's reasonable because people are allowed to complain about the dating landscape they live in. Women complain about dating all the time despite generally having a much easier time getting dates, attention, and relationships than the average man. So it seems odd to suggest men shouldn't be allowed to voice frustrations about a system where they're expected to do most of the pursuing, initiating, and proving themselves. At the end of the day, men are just playing the game they're given if th…	/r/PurplePillDebate	31/05/26 12:08 AM
0	Could the sexual objectification of women actually have had a role in the rise of the manosphere? Yeah, I think it does. Society constantly frames women as the prize in dating, even when the woman in question clearly does not bring much to the table beyond being available or attractive enough. That can create resentment because men are still expected to pursue, pay, perform, impress, and prove themselves, while women are often treated as if their presence alone is the reward. If you tell men over and over that women are the prize and men are the ones who have to earn access, then it should n…	/r/PurplePillDebate	31/05/26 12:03 AM
1	TRP was Never Going to Work for Most Men. An Ideology based on Potential Most Men Never had But it never goes full Red Queen theory, either, even if your place in the rankings stays the same. Maybe not fully, but the closer attraction is to a comparative market, the more relative ranking matters. If you're still the 50th-percentile man after years of self-improvement because everyone else improved too, the practical improvement in outcomes may be much smaller than the absolute improvement would suggest. That's the frustration a lot of men are talking about. A man can become significant…	/r/PurplePillDebate	30/05/26 11:57 PM
4	TRP was Never Going to Work for Most Men. An Ideology based on Potential Most Men Never had I don't think we're actually that far apart then. My point was never that absolute improvement doesn't matter. Obviously it does. A man who improves his looks, fitness, money, charisma, and social skills will generally do better than the version of himself that didn't. The part I think gets overlooked is that relative ranking never stops mattering. If a man goes from average to above average, that's meaningful. If every man around him also improves, however, the competitive landscape remains lar…	/r/PurplePillDebate	30/05/26 04:17 AM
5	Society is 'equal' everywhere except the expensive, high-risk part where men have to audition Yeah, it sucks how much harder dating can be for men, but not much is likely to change because women do not really have an incentive to push equality in that area. Equality sounds good when it removes obligations from them, but courtship is one of the areas where traditional roles still benefit women the most. Men are still expected to initiate, plan, pay, lead, risk rejection, and prove themselves. Women, especially if they have options, get to sit back and decide who performs well enough. That…	/r/PurplePillDebate	30/05/26 03:47 AM
6	Women don't really view men as human beings in romantic contexts Yeah, unfortunately, there is probably some truth to that because of the position women occupy in dating. If a woman is even halfway decent looking, she is often operating from a completely different reality than the average man. She has more attention, more opportunities, more validation, and more choice. When you have that many options, you can afford to be far more selective and dismissive over things that would seem ridiculous to someone with fewer opportunities. A lot of dating discussions …	/r/PurplePillDebate	30/05/26 03:17 AM
10	TRP was Never Going to Work for Most Men. An Ideology based on Potential Most Men Never had I think you're misunderstanding the argument. I don't know many people who claim self-improvement has zero effect on dating. The question is how much it changes relative positioning. If every man became twice as attractive, twice as charismatic, and twice as successful overnight, women would still rank men against other men. The hierarchy wouldn't disappear just because everyone's absolute level improved. The men at the top would still be at the top, the average men would still be average, and t…	/r/PurplePillDebate	30/05/26 03:08 AM
17	Men aren't more critical of women ,we are just treating you equally and you don't like it A behavior can be rude without being sexist. If a man talks down to everyone, that is arrogance. If he specifically talks down to women because he assumes women are less competent, that is sexism. Treating both as the same thing waters down the accusation and makes normal personality flaws look like gender oppression.	/r/PurplePillDebate	30/05/26 03:02 AM
7	If you think there’s inherent moral injustice in you not getting sex or relationships then you are entitled Nobody said relationships should be easy or guaranteed. That's exactly the kind of leap I was talking about. You can acknowledge that some men struggle more than others, or that certain dating dynamics create problems, without believing relationships should be handed out to people. There's also a big difference between saying "I wish something was easier" and saying "someone owes me this." Most people would agree that finding a good job, making friends, or finding a partner can be difficult. Tha…	/r/PurplePillDebate	30/05/26 02:50 AM
5	If you need to build or raise her interest she doesn’t like you Yeah, that's easier said than done, especially over a long period of time. It's easy to preach abundance mentality during a small dry spell. The problem is that some men struggle for years, sometimes even decades. At that point, you're not asking someone to act abundant for a few months. You're asking them to maintain the mindset that they have endless options while reality keeps showing them the opposite. Confidence can help, but eventually reality has to matter too.	/r/PurplePillDebate	30/05/26 02:44 AM
6	If you think there’s inherent moral injustice in you not getting sex or relationships then you are entitled Yeah, men can't prefer even the most basic things from women without it becoming a problem. Women will have a mile-long list of things they expect a man to do or have, but find it insane that a man may want a woman who hasn't slept with 100 men. After Hours in particular has really taught me how delusional some women can be, which is why it's currently one of my favorite show to watch, at least when Myron is on. I've learned a lot from it, and of course it's entertaining to watch as well.	/r/PurplePillDebate	30/05/26 02:38 AM
2	Why do many women find it unacceptable if a man has paid for sex in the past, but are fine with a man who has slept with hundreds of women through regular dating? Because society tends to view men paying for sex as one of the worst things possible, even when it may be the only easy or realistic sexual access that particular man can get. That can suck for those men, but unless attitudes around it change, it will probably continue carrying a heavy stigma. At the same time, a man who can get sex through dating, hookups, or relationships will almost always be viewed more positively by a good amount of women because his ability to get sexual access is seen as …	/r/PurplePillDebate	29/05/26 05:50 AM
2	Men need to let go of the need to constantly defend women whenever they are criticised. Men were largely raised to do this. Society has spent decades teaching men that women should be protected, defended, and given the benefit of the doubt. So when women are criticized, a lot of men instinctively jump in to defend them whether the criticism is fair or not. The problem is that defending someone simply because they are a woman is not the same as defending a good argument. If accountability is good for men, it should be good for women too.	/r/PurplePillDebate	29/05/26 05:44 AM
16	If you think there’s inherent moral injustice in you not getting sex or relationships then you are entitled Most men already know nobody owes them love, sex, or a relationship. That's not the argument being made most of the time. Pointing out that some men struggle in dating or that modern dating has issues is not the same as saying women owe those men anything. It feels like you're arguing against a position that wasn't presented. You can discuss why certain groups struggle, whether social norms create problems, or whether dating dynamics are healthy without claiming anyone is entitled to another per…	/r/PurplePillDebate	29/05/26 04:58 AM
7	If you need to build or raise her interest she doesn’t like you Your argument only really works for men who already have options. A lot of average men can't afford to treat every woman who isn't immediately enthusiastic as a lost cause. Unless he drops his standards to the floor, which many men already struggle to do even for casual dating, most aren't sitting there with multiple highly interested women waiting in line. Women themselves constantly say attraction can grow with familiarity, comfort, personality, shared experiences, and time. There's a differen…	/r/PurplePillDebate	29/05/26 04:18 AM
32	Men aren't more critical of women ,we are just treating you equally and you don't like it The problem with this argument is that it swings too far in the other direction. Yes, men are often far more blunt with each other. Men absolutely give unsolicited advice, criticize bad decisions, roast each other, and communicate in ways that would be considered rude in many other contexts. What does not automatically follow is that every complaint women have about these behaviors is therefore invalid or just women being unable to handle equality. Context matters. A man explaining basketball to…	/r/PurplePillDebate	29/05/26 03:01 AM
6	Feminism would lessen in popularity if men could prove that they like women for anything other than sex A lot of this probably comes from the fact men are still expected to be the pursuers socially. Men are generally the ones expected to notice first, approach first, escalate first, risk rejection first, and keep the interaction moving. So naturally the thing that pushes men through all that friction is usually sexual and physical attraction upfront. That does not mean men are incapable of valuing women deeply outside sex. It means male attraction often starts more visually and sexually because th…	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/05/26 06:55 AM
–	What happens when one gender completely lacks socio-relational skills toward the other gender? Nobody is saying women are obligated to fill emotional gaps for men or force attraction where it does not exist. Attraction is personal and people like what they like. I think the main point is more about recognizing the asymmetry in how men and women often experience relationships socially. You are describing a life where emotional support, social connection, companionship, and even sexual needs are already mostly fulfilled outside romance, which naturally makes relationships feel more optional…	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/05/26 05:32 AM
–	What happens when one gender completely lacks socio-relational skills toward the other gender? That kind of reinforces the asymmetry being discussed though. You are basically describing a situation where a relationship is optional because many of the needs men often rely on relationships for are already fulfilled elsewhere in your life. You already have emotional support, social connection, financial independence, entertainment, and low enough sexual demand that it is easy to satisfy alone. A lot of men do not experience life that way socially. Their emotional intimacy, physical intimacy,…	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/05/26 05:06 AM
–	What happens when one gender completely lacks socio-relational skills toward the other gender? I get that, but at some point people should acknowledge how women have already rejected a huge number of traditional expectations when they no longer benefited them. So when it comes to dating roles specifically, it feels selective to keep preserving the traditional expectation that men must carry initiation while other old norms get discarded as outdated or restrictive. If women collectively wanted initiation to become more balanced socially, they absolutely could push that change harder. Socie…	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/05/26 04:29 AM
5	The majority of men who seriously struggle dating and finding a partner were bullied in adolescence I think you are over-attributing this to bullying specifically when a lot of it is just that certain male personality traits are heavily punished in dating regardless of trauma. A man does not need some brutal humiliation backstory to struggle. Sometimes he is just naturally introverted, shy, passive, awkward, overly cautious socially, or low energy in conversation. Those traits alone hurt men because men are still expected to initiate, escalate, lead interactions, take rejection, and create rom…	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/05/26 03:40 AM
–	What happens when one gender completely lacks socio-relational skills toward the other gender? Women absolutely perform gender socially too. The difference is more about what each side is being trained to perform. Girls are often socialized around appearance, likability, emotional awareness, social calibration, and relational dynamics. Men are more often socialized around initiation, confidence, performance under rejection, status-building, emotional suppression, and taking social risk. So the point was not “women perform nothing socially.” It was that men are usually expected to carry mo…	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/05/26 03:18 AM
1	Women have ruined cold approaching Yeah men already have it way harder in dating to begin with, so adding social stigma around approaching just makes it even more difficult for most men. Men are still expected to initiate, carry conversations, risk rejection, escalate, read signals correctly, and make the first move. Yet at the same time there is now way more anxiety around being seen as creepy, weird, annoying, or disrespectful if the approach is unwanted. That creates a contradictory situation where men are still expected to pe…	/r/PurplePillDebate	28/05/26 03:09 AM
2	Men Care Way Too Much About Female Validation The structure of the modern dating market creates a situation where average men are expected to absorb most of the risk, performance pressure, and resource expenditure just to participate. Men are still socially expected to initiate, pursue, entertain, escalate, handle rejection, build status, cultivate social skill, project confidence, and continuously prove value in a market where attraction is clearly not distributed equally. Meanwhile a small percentage of highly attractive men bypass most o…	/r/PurplePillDebate	27/05/26 11:05 PM
3	If a Straight Men's Attitudes Towards Other Men Were Like Most Women's Attitudes Towards Other Women, People Would Conclude the Man is Gay (or Bisexual) The double standard part is probably real. Women are generally given far more social flexibility around same-sex behavior, experimentation, physical closeness, compliments, or attraction without people immediately redefining their sexuality. If a straight man openly enjoyed male erotic content, regularly cuddled male friends, experimented sexually with men multiple times, and talked about male strippers, most people would absolutely question whether he was fully straight. Meanwhile women can do …	/r/PurplePillDebate	27/05/26 10:45 PM
2	If women treat sex as a reward, men should treat his money as a reward. The problem is this still turns relationships into a reward system while pretending it is criticizing reward systems. “If she performs well enough she earns more provision” is not fundamentally different from “if he performs well enough he earns more sex.” It is the same transactional mindset flipped around. Also the post acts like only women evaluate men based on usefulness while literally arguing men should scale investment based on performance. That is the exact same conditional framework. Th…	/r/PurplePillDebate	27/05/26 10:24 PM
3	Hookups for women would amazing if it actually guaranteed safety. That would make sense honestly. Men are usually following women’s lead on something like that because women often have more leverage in sexual access. If women are more comfortable with it for certain men, then men are naturally going to follow that dynamic. It would just show attraction changes risk tolerance more than people admit.	/r/PurplePillDebate	27/05/26 03:17 AM
4	Men have so it so easy Yeah, they just would hate dating within their league since women like going above it. That would be the only real issue for women that aren’t very attractive. Way worse for men because women on their level, even when low, may be inaccessible.	/r/PurplePillDebate	27/05/26 03:06 AM
1	Men have so it so easy Yeah, it’s just harder for them to practice hypergamy when they are as low as a 2 or 3. Which, for those women, can be the same as them not having any options since a man that low is easily overlooked by them. Since the women are likely looking at 5–6s as their equal.	/r/PurplePillDebate	27/05/26 03:03 AM
2	Men have so it so easy Yeah, but it is challenging for some men to do, which involves things some never get to achieve. Women, on the other hand, don't have to do that at all. Even if a woman isn't all that attractive, some man will be willing to be with her as long as she is kind. A woman will just have a harder time practicing hypergamy like many prefer to do. If she's a 2, she will actually have to date seriously within her league.	/r/PurplePillDebate	27/05/26 02:39 AM
4	It's your fault if you can't find someone by "following the script" This sounds nice in theory but it overstates agency and understates the market. Yes, compatibility matters and people chase bad fits sometimes. The problem is you are acting like everyone has equal access to compatible partners and just keeps choosing wrong out of lust. That is not reality. A lot of men are not struggling because they keep rejecting good women for toxic ones. Many are struggling because they barely have options to begin with. Also the “just follow the script” thing is shaky. Ple…	/r/PurplePillDebate	27/05/26 02:15 AM
4	Men have so it so easy Nah, this isn’t true. I’ve yet to see an ugly woman that can’t get anyone. They just may not get the one they really desire or desire at least a decent amount. So if she is a 1 or 2, she will have to go with a man on her level, which women generally like aiming higher than their number, even if it isn’t by much. So for those women, it can be hard, but it’s still possible though.	/r/PurplePillDebate	27/05/26 12:36 AM
2	Men can only access emotional intimacy through a romantic partner Male friendships are not necessarily defective either. Men often bond through shared activity because it is efficient and low maintenance. The issue is less that the model is broken and more that many men never built a second layer for vulnerability when life gets heavy. That is why breakups can hit so hard. Some men do not just lose a girlfriend. They lose the only place where emotional openness, vulnerability, affection, and support existed. That is also why building support outside romance ma…	/r/PurplePillDebate	27/05/26 12:10 AM
–	Female teacher sexually assaulting male student is played for laughs on SNL It is hypocritical, but it is also not surprising because male victimization is often treated differently culturally. A lot of people still downplay female-on-male harassment, treat it as less threatening, or play it for humor. That is part of why these jokes can still land publicly in ways the reverse likely would not. The advertiser point is also part of the criticism people make. Many companies react based on public pressure, reputation risk, and audience response. If one scenario creates imm…	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/05/26 03:58 AM
2	Women, have no right to get upset at their man talking to other women, if they themselves are posting their pics on social media, going to clubs/bars, and not dressing modestly in public, basically "advertising" themselves That is taking the argument to an extreme. Nobody is saying she has to wear long sleeves in the heat, cover her ankles, or dress like she is going to church every time she leaves the house. The point is that “it is hot outside” or “what about swimming?” does not erase the idea of modesty. You can dress for warm weather without wearing something extremely revealing. You can go swimming and still choose swimwear that has more coverage. Those are not impossible standards. So the real disagreement i…	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/05/26 03:33 AM
5	Women, have no right to get upset at their man talking to other women, if they themselves are posting their pics on social media, going to clubs/bars, and not dressing modestly in public, basically "advertising" themselves That is mixing up two different things. Coercive control is about using pressure, fear, threats, isolation, punishment, or manipulation to control someone’s behavior. A relationship boundary is not automatically that. Saying “I am not comfortable dating someone who dresses in a revealing way while committed” is not the same as taking away her bodily autonomy. She still has the right to wear what she wants. He also has the right to decide what kind of relationship he wants to stay in. Autonomy go…	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/05/26 03:24 AM
0	Women, have no right to get upset at their man talking to other women, if they themselves are posting their pics on social media, going to clubs/bars, and not dressing modestly in public, basically "advertising" themselves That is a pretty extreme jump. Having preferences or boundaries about clothing in a relationship is not automatically abuse or control. People have relationship boundaries all the time around social media, flirting, opposite-sex friendships, nightlife, DMs, porn, etc. “Wear this or else because I own you” is one thing. “I am not comfortable dating someone who dresses this way while committed” is a compatibility statement. Calling every disagreement about clothing “abusive” removes all nuance and…	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/05/26 03:13 AM
4	Woman of Reddit. What is your usual response or reaction when you hear guys say "Women are too much work"? A good number of women likely have noticed the sentiment becoming more common, but many would not agree that “most women are too much work.” They would probably frame it as men becoming more frustrated with modern dating expectations, effort imbalance, apps, finances, emotional labor, initiation burden, etc. The bigger point is that even if women do notice men checking out or complaining more, they may not feel pressure to change because they still have options. So from the male side it can feel…	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/05/26 03:05 AM
1	Women, have no right to get upset at their man talking to other women, if they themselves are posting their pics on social media, going to clubs/bars, and not dressing modestly in public, basically "advertising" themselves I do not think it is fair to reduce it to insecurity or entitlement. A lot of men are not saying “cover up because I own your body.” They are saying relationships come with boundaries, respect, and exclusivity expectations. You can disagree with where the line is, but that is different from entitlement. Also, men absolutely get judged on presentation too. Men get criticized for following thirst traps, shirtless posts, flirting, entertaining attention, dressing in ways seen as trying to attract w…	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/05/26 03:00 AM
1	Women, have no right to get upset at their man talking to other women, if they themselves are posting their pics on social media, going to clubs/bars, and not dressing modestly in public, basically "advertising" themselves Men approach women for sex, relationships, and reproduction.	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/05/26 02:47 AM
2	Women, have no right to get upset at their man talking to other women, if they themselves are posting their pics on social media, going to clubs/bars, and not dressing modestly in public, basically "advertising" themselves I read it. The last section literally says “if it is cheating for your man to approach women, then it is cheating for women to advertise while in a relationship.” The issue is OP is treating “approaching” and “advertising” as parallel behaviors because men and women occupy different roles in dating. Men approach, women attract attention. Your response reframes it into outcome only: “he is trying to have sex” vs “she has not accepted anything yet.” That changes the comparison. Under OP’s framing,…	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/05/26 02:43 AM
1	Women, have no right to get upset at their man talking to other women, if they themselves are posting their pics on social media, going to clubs/bars, and not dressing modestly in public, basically "advertising" themselves The argument was that if approaching women is treated as stepping outside the relationship because it creates opportunities, then constantly advertising yourself and creating opportunities for attention should also be examined under the same logic. So saying “it is not equivalent to cheating” does not really address the comparison because equivalence was never the claim being made. The discussion was about opportunity, attention, and consistency of standards.a	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/05/26 02:33 AM
-2	Women, have no right to get upset at their man talking to other women, if they themselves are posting their pics on social media, going to clubs/bars, and not dressing modestly in public, basically "advertising" themselves Having sex with someone else and posting pictures or going to clubs are not the same thing. Nobody is saying they are equal. The concern is more that some behaviors can create opportunities or invite attention while in a relationship. A lot of men will take their shot if they see an opening, especially through social media, clubs, open DMs, etc. That still is not cheating by itself. It just means people may disagree on whether constantly creating opportunities for outside attention respects the …	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/05/26 02:25 AM
1	Women, have no right to get upset at their man talking to other women, if they themselves are posting their pics on social media, going to clubs/bars, and not dressing modestly in public, basically "advertising" themselves I do not think most men believe women exist for them or that women dress only for male attention. That feels like a very broad conclusion to reach from a disagreement about clothing. Women can wear what they want. At the same time, clothing does have social meaning. People notice presentation, attractiveness, style, modesty, confidence, and intent. Men and women both do this. Relationships also change the standard. A lot of men see revealing clothing while in a relationship as a respect and excl…	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/05/26 02:20 AM
2	Women, have no right to get upset at their man talking to other women, if they themselves are posting their pics on social media, going to clubs/bars, and not dressing modestly in public, basically "advertising" themselves Depends on how she is doing it; if she is showing off everything, most men, especially respectable ones, will have an issue with that.	/r/PurplePillDebate	18/05/26 02:14 AM
4	What happens when one gender completely lacks socio-relational skills toward the other gender? The first scenario is probably worse for dating because men are still expected to initiate most of the time. If men became universally passive, terrified of rejection, unwilling to approach, and socially checked out, dating would probably slow down massively because the initiating side collapsed. The second scenario would still hurt dating, but men would likely keep pushing anyway because men generally have higher drives and already do most of the initiating now. Ironically, this already hints a…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/05/26 07:01 PM
10	Why can't men be marketed to women as sexual objects / receivers of desire? Part of it is likely that women are, on average, less visually driven sexually than men and place more weight on context, narrative, emotion, status, competence, desire, and relationship dynamics. Erotic fiction gives all of that. It is not just “hot guy standing there.” It is attention, pursuit, desire, tension, emotional investment, exclusivity, power dynamics, fantasy, etc. Also, the fantasy is often not “I want to chase him.” It is “I want to be intensely desired by him.” Those are different…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/05/26 05:24 PM
1	Men and Women Often Fear Opposite Forms of Rejection Boyfriend-level investment to me would be things like becoming the primary emotional support person, constant availability, priority treatment, heavy reassurance, protective behavior, regular check-ins, dropping things for her, carrying emotional burdens, and giving a level of attention and energy that is more concentrated than most friendships. On the friendship part, I agree mutual close friendship can absolutely involve support, comfort, validation, and emotional closeness. The distinction fo…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/05/26 05:17 PM
18	Feminists expect male "allies", but have no interest in solving male-specific issues or even recognizing them Demanding male allyship while showing almost no real concern for male issues is a bad deal from the start. Men are expected to spend social and political energy supporting women’s causes, while male problems get ignored, mocked, or reframed as men’s own fault. That is the double standard. When women struggle, the explanation is usually systemic barriers, social conditioning, patriarchy, or lack of support. When men struggle with education, suicide, homelessness, workplace deaths, family court, o…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/05/26 02:19 PM
–	What would happen if all men were socially inept when it comes to interacting with women? If men suddenly lost the social ability to approach, flirt, escalate, and read cues, the dating market would basically freeze. The whole system relies on men making the first move and carrying most of the risk. Women are mostly socialized to receive attention, not create it. That is why male initiation matters so much. If men stop approaching, women do not magically replace that effort at the same level. Most of them just wait, complain that nobody is making a move, or retreat into apps and pass…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/05/26 12:38 PM
–	Women don't have life "Easier" than men Scarcity does change perceived value. But, just as I don't know what it's like to be a man with a man's drive and a man's brain, you don't know what it's like to be a woman. That cuts both ways. Women’s struggles get treated like deep social realities while male loneliness, rejection, invisibility, emotional suppression, and lack of intimacy get reduced to “men just want sex.” So it's not just sex, but it is primarily romantic partnerships with women... Because romantic relationships are where m…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/05/26 11:10 AM
–	Women don't have life "Easier" than men "That’s not telling the whole truth the biological factors also play a role women don’t value sex as much because sex is more risky for them." Risk can explain greater selectiveness without disproving that women still have more leverage, access, attention, and filtering power overall. Those things can exist at the same time. It is also more costly to them since they can only have one pregnancy at a time. Pregnancy is obviously a heavier biological burden on women. That still does not erase the f…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/05/26 11:04 AM
–	Women don't have life "Easier" than men Nobody said biological burdens do not count. Painful periods, pregnancy, childbirth, and reproductive issues can absolutely make life harder physically. The issue is when biological burdens get used to cancel out every other category. A woman having period pain does not erase the fact that women can still have more leverage in dating, more access to sex, more social sympathy, more emotional support, and easier re-entry into relationships. Men could play the same game in reverse by bringing up hi…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/05/26 10:54 AM
–	Women don't have life "Easier" than men You are mixing “women take more biological risk” with “women therefore have less leverage,” and those are not the same thing. Women initiating divorce more does not prove women have it worse. It can just as easily point to women having more exit leverage, more support, more fallback options, and more confidence they can leave and still land on their feet. A lot of men stay because restarting in the dating market as an average older man is brutal. Men remarrying more does not prove marriage benef…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/05/26 10:50 AM
1	as a financial consultant, i’ve seen too many men go broke trying to impress women. why? A lot of men need to understand that breaking the bank for women is not impressive. If anything it can lower respect because it looks like you are trying to buy attraction instead of creating it. There is a difference between being financially competent and becoming a walking wallet. Too many men are destroying themselves trying to keep women who were never invested beyond the lifestyle. Men need standards too. Stop trying to rescue women who bring looks and expectations but little else. Beauty …	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/05/26 12:13 AM
2	Why do Men degrade and insult Women who have sex with them? No, this is just not true. A big majority of men do not sit around consciously viewing sex as degrading women or thinking they are “tainting” women through sex. Also women use terms like “cracked” too. You saying you have never heard it does not really matter because plenty of women use the same vulgar sexual slang now. If women are using the exact same language, then the language itself cannot automatically be proof of men degrading women. You are also massively overreading intent. Most people …	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/05/26 12:02 AM
5	If you haven’t dated in the last 10-15 yrs you shouldn’t be giving dating advice Yeah, they definitely are not the best people to go to if they have not at least done their research. Dating changed massively with apps, social media, DMs, Instagram, endless options, and constant access to attention. Someone who dated mostly before all of that can end up giving advice based on a market that barely exists anymore. Back then getting a number often meant more exclusivity and less competition. Now getting a number can just mean you joined a queue. People are talking to multiple pe…	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 09:37 PM
–	Women don't have life "Easier" than men The value difference is exactly the point though. Women often value dating, sex, and attention differently because they generally have more access to it. Scarcity changes value. Men usually place more weight on those things because they are harder to get and far less guaranteed. That does not make the male side shallow. It explains the disconnect. On the support issue, the problem is you are treating it like men are operating in a vacuum completely separate from women and broader culture. Women …	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 09:25 PM
–	Women don't have life "Easier" than men So how do you measure pain of not being "chosen or desired" against physical pain of a period or childbirth? You do not measure them like they are the same kind of pain. That is the point. Physical pain and long-term emotional/social pain are different categories. Also childbirth is not only a temporary event, it is usually something women voluntarily choose to go through because they want children. That does not make the pain fake, but it is different from a man spending decades unwanted, isola…	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 09:20 PM
–	Women don't have life "Easier" than men Yeah well men here say it's a transaction and women are basically prostitutes in relationships anyway, so why not 🤣 Some men saying relationships are transactional does not suddenly make prostitution equivalent to a relationship. The point still stands that paying for sex is not the same as being desired, wanted, loved, or chosen. Also if relationships were just prostitution then women would not constantly talk about emotional connection, romance, support, validation, and love too. Making contin…	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 09:07 PM
–	Women don't have life "Easier" than men Nobody denies pregnancy, childbirth, postpartum changes, career hits, and childcare burdens are real. The issue is that you are focusing almost entirely on the biological and motherhood side while skipping the social leverage side. Women still usually have more sympathy, more exit support, easier re-entry into dating, and more backup attention than men do. A man losing attraction after years or after kids is not just “men bad.” Attraction changes on both sides. Plenty of wives lose desire too, e…	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 09:04 PM
–	Women don't have life "Easier" than men Compared to physical pain it's not that... severe. Also men can pay for prostitutes. Or do sex tourism so if they don't have sex that's their own choice. This is a crazy comparison. Paying for prostitutes is not the same as being desired, wanted, loved, or having a relationship. You are reducing male loneliness and intimacy needs down to a transaction. Still not a disability. Nobody called it a disability. You are arguing with a point nobody made. What it shows is men are choosing not to get hel…	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 08:54 PM
–	Women don't have life "Easier" than men Nah, you are definitely wrong on that. Not being able to get sex, intimacy, or romantic validation can absolutely be painful for men, especially since men typically have a much stronger sex drive and far less access to those things. Nobody said lack of sex is a “disability.” The point is that sexual and romantic rejection can create real distress, loneliness, shame, and isolation. Acting like that does not count because it is male suffering is just selective empathy. Also, bringing up drugs, alc…	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 08:49 PM
1	When men and women say they have “no options” it means two completely different things Yeah that defiantly wasn't the point at all.	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 08:02 PM
10	Men and Women Often Fear Opposite Forms of Rejection This is why the “he was never really your friend” framing is too simple and usually lets women dodge accountability for the dynamic they helped create. Women constantly talk about not wanting to be “used for sex,” but if she willingly participated in the sex then it is not the same thing as being forced or tricked into it. A lot of the time the real issue is that she wanted the sex to lead into romance or commitment while the man only wanted something casual. That is disappointment and expectati…	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 07:59 PM
–	Women don't have life "Easier" than men That is a bit too convenient. Women having more access to dating and sex still matters even if they value it differently. Access is still leverage, even if the person with the leverage complains about the quality or usefulness of it. On the emotional support point, sure, women often build stronger support networks. Nobody denies that. The issue is pretending men’s weaker support systems are purely a personal failure while ignoring how differently male vulnerability is received socially. Men are …	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 07:47 PM
–	Women who take the initiative and approach men are much less successful than people often claim The ironic point does not really work because the situations are different. If a man spends money on dates and gets nothing he wanted out of it, then yes, he can also feel used. Nobody denied that. The issue is acting like him paying automatically means he is “doing his job” and therefore should feel fulfilled by it. If he wanted a relationship, affection, sex, or reciprocity and got none of it, he can still feel disappointed. For women, Yeah I know the orgasm gap is there, but women can still e…	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 07:37 PM
–	Women who take the initiative and approach men are much less successful than people often claim That is a pretty ironic reply considering you just wrote off an entire sex as incapable of understanding instead of engaging the argument. You are calling men unempathetic while responding with open contempt and dismissiveness. That is not empathy either. Also notice the move here. Instead of addressing the point, you pathologize the people making it. “Men cannot understand,” “men lack empathy,” “men are close to unintelligent.” It is just an insult wrapped in moral language. If the argument is …	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 07:32 PM
–	Women who take the initiative and approach men are much less successful than people often claim Yeah, a man can feel used too, but it is still not fully the same. If a man spends money and gets nothing he wanted out of it, there is no mutual experience there. The food just went into her belly and he is out the time and money. With sex, both people participated in the act. Both had the opportunity to enjoy it even if one side later realizes they wanted different things from it. That is why I do not think the comparison maps perfectly, even if I get what you are trying to say about expectati…	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 07:22 PM
–	Women don't have life "Easier" than men The problem with the “women have it harder because of periods, childbirth, PTSD rates, etc.” argument is that it shifts from dating and social advantages into biological burdens and treats them like the same category. Nobody serious denies women deal with things men do not. Periods, pregnancy, miscarriages, childbirth, PCOS, endometriosis, all real. The issue is using those to erase the areas where women clearly do have advantages. Women generally have easier access to dating, sex, emotional sup…	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 07:10 PM
–	Women who take the initiative and approach men are much less successful than people often claim The point was that access still exists. A woman can dislike the quality of the attention, the intentions behind it, or the risks attached to it, and those complaints are valid. That still is not the same as having no attention, no options, and no access at all. Also, “getting used” is not really the right word if both adults willingly agreed to it. If she chose to sleep with him early before commitment was established, then there was always risk involved. That does not automatically make the guy…	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 07:02 PM
–	Women don't have life "Easier" than men Nah, I would still say relationships are generally easier for women too. Dating attention is obviously easier for women, but that leverage does not disappear once relationships enter the picture. Women usually have more backup options, more social sympathy, more ability to exit and re-enter dating, and more cultural support when things go bad. Men still usually have to prove more, initiate more, provide more, absorb more rejection, and risk being treated like the disposable one if the relationsh…	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 06:49 PM
–	Women who take the initiative and approach men are much less successful than people often claim He isn't teaching me anything; I know how this works already. Btw, there is no using unless you are speaking of non-consensual sex, since both parties have to agree to sleep with each other. Which, if it's legal sex we are speaking of, she agreed to lay down with the man. So, she can't be getting used if that's the case. Anyway, of course people can get bored or whatever; we are speaking in general. It's much easier for women to have success with this than men, but this still doesn't mean everyt…	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 06:25 PM
1	Men aging like fine wine is mostly a myth So, what? I'm speaking in general, since most women do.	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 06:11 PM
–	Women who take the initiative and approach men are much less successful than people often claim Yeah, that can happen, but women who go for their looks level will have way more success than most men will when doing the same, that's for sure.	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 06:10 PM
1	Men aging like fine wine is mostly a myth You are the one that needs to read up, lol. ----> Sun protection does not stop makeup from messing up pores. Instead, sunscreen is a separate skincare step. If chosen poorly, it can actually clog pores alongside your cosmetics. The best way to prevent clogged pores is to use oil-free, non-comedogenic products and properly wash your face every night.	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 06:08 PM
–	Women don't have life "Easier" than men I think this kind of dodges the dating-specific point by zooming all the way out to “life overall.” Sure, class, genetics, family, looks, and stability matter massively. Nobody serious denies that. But that does not mean gender stops mattering in specific areas like dating, sex, social sympathy, risk, or emotional support. Also, the mental health point cuts both ways. If women seek help more and get diagnosed more, then diagnosis rates alone cannot be used as proof that women have it harder ment…	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 06:05 PM
0	Men aging like fine wine is mostly a myth No, you are the one that is silly making up stuff. Do some research so you can understand what that stuff does to the pores over time. Plenty of info out there about that, so it makes no sense to just be what you are calling me and trying to laugh about it; it just looks dumb.	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 06:02 PM
–	Women who take the initiative and approach men are much less successful than people often claim In general, women would still have way more success approaching than men do, especially if they are being realistic about who they approach. The exceptions usually happen when a woman is aiming way outside her league. If a woman who is a 3 or 4 is going after an 8, then yeah, she is probably going to get rejected or only get low-effort sexual interest. That should not be treated like proof that women approaching does not work. The real comparison should be reasonable approaches within someone’s …	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 05:31 PM
1	Men aging like fine wine is mostly a myth I definitely know how much makeup ruins the face; the information is everywhere, so stop pretending like someone can't easily know that. Sunscreen doesn't help with that either; makeup still gets into the pores regardless and will ruin it over time.	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 05:28 PM
–	Women who take the initiative and approach men are much less successful than people often claim Well, men are having struggles with the women they are looksmatched to or under, so that is worse than going way out of a person's league and failing.	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 05:23 PM
1	Men aging like fine wine is mostly a myth Nah, makeup ruins women's skin, something that men don't have happen since they typically don't wear any at all, let alone for years. For most women, they are constantly putting that on, which can cause issues like breakouts, dry patches, and eye styes, along with wrinkles and most other stuff. So over time, men definitely, naturally, can age better, for sure.	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 05:19 PM
2	Sex and relationships are mostly an Esteem need, not a Love & Belonging need. Conflating the two makes the surrounding discourse a lot more confusing. Nobody said men do not prefer attractive women. Of course men want “Stacy” if given the option. The difference is in access, standards, and effort. Average men usually learn pretty early that top-tier women are mostly out of reach for serious relationships, so they adjust faster and become far more willing to date around their level. Average women can still get attention, validation, hookups, and mixed signals from higher-tier men for years, which delays that adjustment process much more. Also, …	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 05:15 PM
–	Entrepreneurial guys do better with women, but the reason has nothing to do with money That is really the main difference. Entrepreneurial men tend to understand that reality does not care what you wish people valued. The market responds to what it responds to. A lot of men lose because they keep trying to sell women a version of masculinity women say they want but do not actually respond to. They think being endlessly nice, emotionally available, passive, or vulnerable will create attraction because that is the script they were told. Then when it fails, they get bitter instead of…	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 09:14 AM
4	Sex and relationships are mostly an Esteem need, not a Love & Belonging need. Conflating the two makes the surrounding discourse a lot more confusing. That does not refute anything. Ending up with your looksmatch eventually does not mean you valued your looksmatch the whole time. A lot of people pair realistically only after their first choices do not commit, their options change, or reality forces adjustment. That is the point. Modern dating can inflate what someone thinks they deserve before they eventually settle back around their actual level. So the final pairing does not erase the distorted standards that happened before it.	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 07:20 AM
2	Men not approaching: Why Self-Respect is the Ultimate "Win" Male friendships can absolutely help with loneliness, purpose, and emotional support, but acting like they fully replace romantic and sexual relationships is just not realistic for most people. Men are biologically wired to want intimacy, attraction, sex, and validation from women specifically. Pretending male friendships completely fill that role is oversimplifying human nature. The irony is that even the men pushing the “just avoid women entirely” angle usually still care deeply about female a…	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 06:57 AM
8	Men not approaching: Why Self-Respect is the Ultimate "Win" Yeah, they should be normalized, but the issue is most men do not actually care for that stuff in its current form. An AI girlfriend, chatbot, or doll might help some men cope, but it is not a real replacement for mutual attraction, physical intimacy, and being wanted by an actual person. That route will probably become way more appealing once human-like AI is actually convincing, physical, and emotionally responsive. At that point, it may start competing with real dating for a lot of men. Until…	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 06:45 AM
1	Self-proclaimed "nice guys" are not nice guys The real lesson is discipline and social awareness, not blindly “being nice” all the time. A lot of men were taught that constant agreeableness and harmlessness would naturally create attraction, but attraction does not really work that way. Boundaries, confidence, self-respect, and knowing when to stop investing in someone matter too. I would frame the “being mean” part differently though. A lot of what people interpret as attractive is usually confidence, assertiveness, emotional control, or n…	/r/PurplePillDebate	16/05/26 06:37 AM