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MissionPeak193 Archive

View 2 posts and 174 comments by MissionPeak193 on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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Upvotes Title Category Author Subreddit Date (UTC)
13

DiscussionMissionPeak193/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 10:28 PM
4

DiscussionMissionPeak193/r/PurplePillDebate28/10/23 12:57 PM
Upvotes Comment on Subreddit Date (UTC)
3

Yeah, fair enough. It seems.. immature, or something? Idk.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/02/24 12:02 PM
4

Trying that right now. And.. it’s not the best. Despite having more “experience” across the board as you’ve defined it, I’m doing everything. Maturity is required to make a long-term relationship work.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/02/24 12:01 AM
3

Even just the term seems so gendered. As a guy, I know what you mean, but I would never describe it as “the ick.”
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/24 11:49 PM
7

It depends on what you mean by “successful.” But probably the pick-me. Guys will simp and do anything even for pick-mes, but women won’t do much of anything for a simp.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/11/23 04:51 AM
13

Lol I’m just pointing out you’re not responding to what they actually said thanks
/r/PurplePillDebate13/11/23 06:40 PM
13

They said “abuse,” not “sexual abuse.”
/r/PurplePillDebate13/11/23 06:37 PM
3

I agree with what you’re saying here. I think empathy should be granted to all living things, but that doesn’t mean we should treat all living things (or people) the same. If someone’s a dick, I won’t interact with them. If someone wants to better themselves, I’ll be more willing to interact with and help them. And yeah, if they don’t wanna help themselves, you can’t force them to change — and you’ll be just wasting your time.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/11/23 07:17 PM
5

It’s just a fact. We can generalize across experience because our experiences are sufficiently similar, but you cannot and will never be able to know what it’s like to be me. Is this used to silence people? Yeah. But this fact should lead us listen and be more patient, since we need to hear it ‘from the horse’s mouth’ if we’re actually going to be able to help.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/11/23 07:05 PM
3

Yes, empathy is severely lacking in many people. Many people don’t know how to practice empathy because they cannot be truly vulnerable with others or themselves. But there is something to be said of your first example. If we recognize that every individual is different, has a unique perspective, experience, and history, it is partly true that women don’t know what men’s loneliness is like. They aren’t men, and they can’t (completely) know what it’s like to feel the way men do. This also means t…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/11/23 06:48 PM
2

All I’ve ever known and wanted is love, having grown up in a generation where arranged marriage was taboo, romance and finding one’s soulmate was held up as the best thing in the world, and movies and television shows fed me a story of the importance of deep-seated passion.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/11/23 03:17 PM
7

You got me there: I don’t read the majority of what’s posted here lmao.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/23 02:54 PM
14

I guess I’ll have to take your word for it. I’ve never seen it, and it defies all logic, risking blowing up a relationship with little to no upside.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/23 02:51 PM
19

Do you think guys just want to accuse their girlfriends, fiancés, wives of “being a lying, cheating piece of garbage without facing the blowback from her when they’re wrong” for fun or something? No, men aren’t doing this for fun, nor are they doing it ‘just so they can,’ or whatever explanation is being offered here.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/23 02:48 PM
2

We disagree on a fundamental presupposition about the nature of privilege here. I don’t think you can reduce it to a number. If you do, there’s nothing more to talk about.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/23 05:23 AM
1

Oh, it’s significant. I just disagreed with your claim that the privilege could be quantified.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/23 05:16 AM
4

So you’re saying the money men make is equivalent to their privilege? I think privilege is much more expansive and complex than that. Qualitative, actually. I don’t think it can be quantified because it’s not just about money, and it can’t be reduced to money — it can’t be reduced to a numerical value at all.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/23 03:31 AM
1

Hard to quantify. Different privileges for sure. I don’t think there’s any permanent way to equalize the varying privileges of men and women without dissolving everything between them that makes them different (e.g. biology, psychology, socialization, speech and behavior, outward appearance, gender expression, sexual orientation, sexual identity, etc.).
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/23 02:30 AM
1

Yeah, I don’t disagree with that at all. Of course it sucks and it’s dehumanizing. But this is the reality of the situation. In these situations, they definitely are objectified. It’s not cool to do that in one’s actions. I won’t apologize for my use of language in outlining the situation though: my analysis was attempting to be objective.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/11/23 12:20 PM
2

I think everyone needs to make up their own mind. Personally, if a woman was keeping their distance from me, I wouldn’t be offended. And I’m definitely gonna tell my daughter(s) to be safe.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/11/23 11:57 PM
-1

Well, it may or may not. Some shitty guys are gonna do what they’re gonna do. The logic would suggest that it probably would be a good idea for a woman to be cautious. Is it sexist? Idk. There’s a semi-famous example in philosophy of those with high status and power (primarily old white people) going to an event a few decades ago and one of old women asks a black man to take her jacket. Coincidentally, he’s the only black guy there who’s not actually a worker, but a high class person in his own …
/r/PurplePillDebate07/11/23 11:54 PM
-3

Temptation is still temptation. Obviously this doesn’t excuse the guys who engage in this despicable behavior. But from many people’s perspective (usually men’s), it’s irrational to not take precautions if they could be taken. They would say something like, “You wouldn’t walk around outside with a handful of diamonds in plain view — you’d hide them if you were in public.” It’s about the logic here — not primarily material consequences. Does covering up help? We can’t know because we don’t know h…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/11/23 11:45 PM
-2

Men aren’t generally telling women to cover up because men can’t control themselves. (I mean, drugs and alcohol do weird things, but it’s not localized just to men.) When it comes to discussing SA and rape, I hear people (primarily men) telling women to cover up not because men can’t control themselves, but as a precaution. (Victim blaming does happen though, which is stupid.) The whole discussing of covering up of course isn’t limited to just SA and rape, though. A lot of guys think that women …
/r/PurplePillDebate07/11/23 11:40 PM
17

Based on my personal experience and what I’ve observed, men in general need to do more than women physically, psychologically, and economically (I.e. “have their shit together”) to attract a partner. Caveat: No, this isn’t a truism. Yes, not all women. (Source: every relationship I’ve been in and all of my guy friends’ dating histories and current partners.)
/r/PurplePillDebate05/11/23 03:29 AM
1

I’m not sure what people mean by “testing” exactly. Does it have to be intentional? Could putting someone into a situation to see how they react be a “test?” Perhaps people test others all the time without intentionally doing so?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/11/23 04:15 PM
1

I wouldn’t say that is a conservative take lol. I’m not arguing here that politics is always or even usually prior to “dating strategy.” I was simply asking if people think their own personal views on sex, gender, dating, and relationships are political and, if so, to explain that.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/11/23 01:20 AM
8

If she asked me out, I’d offer to split it, but if she wants to pay for it, then of course I’d happily accept!
/r/PurplePillDebate03/11/23 12:53 AM
20

As a man, I’m happy to pay, but pleasantly surprised if I don’t have to.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/11/23 12:34 AM
2

Got it. I wouldn’t have assumed so lol. Appreciate the response.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/11/23 10:09 PM
–

I agree, as I would take virginity to be a state. I would discuss morality in relation to action or inaction.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/11/23 09:57 PM
3

Got it — yeah, that makes sense. It would seem these online forums are magnets for negativity in general.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/11/23 09:43 PM
3

Are a lot of them femcels? (Genuinely asking. Haven’t visited that sub in a long time.)
/r/PurplePillDebate02/11/23 09:38 PM
–

I would tend to agree! But that’s the kicker, huh? Many of us on this sub will disagree on what “harms” others 😩
/r/PurplePillDebate02/11/23 09:37 PM
–

Oo well maybe I wouldn’t shame them, then. Tricksy.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/11/23 09:34 PM
–

Idk, I think shame has its place. If someone rubs shit all over the bus seat, I’m gonna shame them, even though I’m not sure I would classify it as “morally wrong.” But in general I think people shame others for dumb things, and we could do with a lot more empathy.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/11/23 09:01 PM
1

I wouldn’t say it’s all downstream of politics, but for a lot of people their political views inform their views on these things. (For example, I’ve personally never met a red-pill progressive in my life.)
/r/PurplePillDebate02/11/23 08:58 PM
1

I’ve come to similar beliefs (e.g. Carlin’s ‘Big Club’). On Reddit though I normally see people criticized for expressing such a view — “BoTh sIdEs ArE bAD!? ..one side is obviously much worse. duh, bigot.”
/r/PurplePillDebate02/11/23 08:56 PM
1

Would you say then that one sex is not predisposed to be better at some gender-related activities than the other?
/r/PurplePillDebate02/11/23 12:56 AM
5

Sure, makes sense why that would be a dealbreaker.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/11/23 12:55 AM
2

Oh, I meant if important family decisions are decided on the basis of democratic vote or what lol. I can understand intellectually what it means to be anti-political-authority but not what that looks like in practice in- and outside the home.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/11/23 12:47 AM
1

Is your family fully egalitarian then?
/r/PurplePillDebate02/11/23 12:38 AM
1

Right — that’s kind of my understanding: BP is.. not RP. Like how reactionaries come in a bunch of different types because they disagree with the status quo. (Although reactionaries are reacting to things and it would seem BPers generally precede RPers unless someone goes through some kind of RP > BP conversion.)
/r/PurplePillDebate02/11/23 12:36 AM
1

Got it. Do you see this influencing your views on sex, gender, dating, and relationships at all?
/r/PurplePillDebate02/11/23 12:33 AM
1

It’s interesting because many argue that an unwanted pregnancy is good enough grounds for abortion, so I guess the moral argument turns on why the child is unwanted.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/11/23 12:21 AM
2

Got it. I appreciate your responses! I don’t know if you’re interested in this at all, but I know Benjamin Boyce has done a lot of interviews with radfems and people all over the gender ideology spectrum. Might be worth checking out!
/r/PurplePillDebate02/11/23 12:05 AM
1

Well it doesn’t certainly feel like some sort of collapse is on the horizon — or, perhaps, we’re experiencing it in slow-motion. I couldn’t help but notice your flair though. What does it mean exactly to be a “satanic Christian?” Like, a Christian egoist seems to be a contradiction in terms. (Based on my limited understanding, Lucifereans actually worship Lucifer.)
/r/PurplePillDebate02/11/23 12:03 AM
2

Got it. As opposed to some progressives which see porn and sex work as empowering? Do radfems think these things can be empowering? As far as I can tell, a lot of radfems also have ‘conservative’ views on the trans sports debate. Would you say that’s true as well? EDIT: perhaps it’s unfair to ask you to be a representative of what all/most radfems believe lol. I’m just curious.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 11:55 PM
1

Could you enlighten me? Do radfems generally see porn and religion both as oppressive, or what?
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 11:50 PM
1

Yeah, of course lol — but I guess I associate Catholicism with conservatism generally. But I suppose Christianity has been getting progressive over the years in some places. EDIT: I gotta get used to not equivocating “left-leaning” with “progressive.” You were fairly clear — I just have some strange mental patterns.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 11:49 PM
1

Do you think what we are seeing is the implementation of some long-term plan, a conspiracy of sorts? To be honest, I never thought about dating and sexuality in the economic terms you’re describing — it’s interesting.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 11:48 PM
1

Interesting. Is that by choice? I don’t feel like I hear about a lot of tradcons, well, not having conservative politics. Unless it’s a LARP?
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 11:45 PM
1

So would you say you’re fairly apolitical?
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 11:44 PM
1

Got it. What exactly do you subscribe to radfem-wise? I feel like a lot of contentious arguments are being had regarding radfems who are being accused of being transphobic.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 11:40 PM
1

What ideas would be a dealbreaker for you that’s a part of the RP ideology? (Im not super well versed in the differences between BP and RP to be honest.)
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 11:39 PM
1

Ahh. Yes, I have seen that show (but honestly not much of it). I understand your position a lot better now — thanks for the response. If I could ask one more question, what exactly do you mean by “ethnicity?” I only ever hear it spoken about alongside race.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 11:18 PM
1

Got it, got it. Would you say progressives tend to be BPers in your experience? (It’s hard for me to discern because I’m still not entirely clear on what ideas, claims, and concepts qualify as “BP,” but I have some general intuition about it.)
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 11:07 PM
1

Got it — thanks for the explanation! That’s kind of what I was guessing you’d meant.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 11:04 PM
2

Ah, when you say “liberal” are you talking about progressives? (As distinguished from classical liberalism which advocates for government protecting and promoting individual liberties?)
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 11:03 PM
2

Fair enough. A lot of people are jaded with politics right now.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 11:00 PM
1

My understanding is that the majority of progressives believe race is “real” insofar as it’s used to inform how people treat one another, but that they don’t believe race is an inherent, biological feature of a person. Would you say this lines up with your view? “Real” could still mean “socially constructed.”
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 10:59 PM
3

Well people do get turned off if they’re not politically compatible with you. But I’m wondering if your personal political beliefs inform your views on sex, gender, and dating, and if so how. For example, I could see why someone who is an anarcho-capitalist might be inclined to some RP claims and strategies.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 10:56 PM
3

To be honest, I don’t know what “race realist” means in this context. Don’t progressives believe that race is “real?”
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 10:53 PM
1

So something like a political pragmatist? Would you say you were more politically idealistic in the past?
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 10:53 PM
1

Interesting. So would you say you’re anti-authority, anti-the-current-establishment, or something else?
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 10:49 PM
2

Interesting. Thanks for your perspective! I’m honestly still learning about all these different views. To take the Matrix analogy further, is RP mostly a reaction to mainstream views on gender, sex, and dating? I’ve been assuming BP was basically ‘around’ first, and RP is in part a reaction to it.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 10:48 PM
0

Would you say you’ve noticed political ideology generally trending towards certain ‘pilled’ views? Would you describe yourself as Red, Blue, Purple, something else?
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 10:37 PM
-5

Well, men apparently do, right? I guess it depends on whether one thinks men and women are that different. Does sex and gender matter, or are we gonna accept the tabula rasa view of humanity?
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 10:05 PM
0

Sure, I bet all kinds of people are contradictory — RPers, BPers, PPers, etc. By linking the video, I was trying to do something nice by sharing a resource. I’m not putting forth any argument here for or against right-wing thought. Maybe I wasn’t clear on that. I’ll summarize the video if you’ll find that helpful, but I have no desire to argue whether we should be right-wing or not.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 06:23 PM
1

Where did I say any of that..? You’re arguing with a ghost here, my friend. EDIT: the downvoting is hilarious too 😂 you didn’t respond to anything I said — you’re just going off. Which is fine; I mean, you do you. But clearly this isn’t a conversation.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 06:04 PM
3

I interpret it as “not giving the person the proper respect they deserve — using them merely as an object.”
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 05:44 PM
-1

Well I would characterize a lot of RP guys as being on ‘the right,’ but these PUA’s aren’t Christian. EDIT: if anyone’s interested, I did some research into what it means to be “right-wing,” and this video was helpful: https://youtu.be/N_kuFyN3Cwk?si=CUFMze9yHKlQ0JF6
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 05:39 PM
1

Oh yeah, I don’t think the women I encountered in academia were representative of those in wider society haha. But the experience was remarkable. And it seems like the places where feminism is being re-worked and reflected upon (e.g. universities) are pretty radical. Thank God wider society doesn’t accept everything that comes from ‘the ivory tower.’ Some of it is insane.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 11:41 AM
1

Just my fellow graduate students in my department — not everyone. Though I admit my department was small, and to be honest I’m not sure they all really believed it.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 11:25 AM
1

They would make really disparaging comments about men (e.g. all men are pigs, all men are rapists, “there’s no good man,” etc.), while implying that women were better than them (e.g. “women can handle pain better,” “men are pussies,” etc.).
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 11:06 AM
0

Not all far-right people are Christian or wants to ban birth control. Religion is associated generally with the right side of the political aisle, but the right has many manifestations (e.g. Christian right, alt-right, dissident right, etc.).
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 01:42 AM
6

That’s fair. All I know is that all of my fellow graduate students before I become a professor who were women were bordering on misandry if not outright misandrists. But social media does project the loudest, most controversial voices.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 01:36 AM
17

Honestly, sex isn’t even that important to me. (EDIT: I mean I hope we would have sex occasionally, but it doesn’t need to be super frequent, mind-blowing, or kinky.) I wasn’t super clear lol. I didn’t interpret “boring” as “not sharing interests and hobbies” I guess. I would like my partner to share some of my interests and hobbies..! but it’s not a necessity. That she generally shares my values and worldview is more important to me. I guess I interpreted “boring” something like “not all that e…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/23 08:24 PM
65

No. My partner is not responsible for entertaining me or making my life fun — that’s my responsibility. But I guess it depends on what you mean by “boring.” I would expect my partner to express some interest in me and my experience — she can’t just sit there all day, not react to me, being motionless and communication-less lol — but she doesn’t have to have a life or hobbies I found to be especially exciting. And I would express my interest in her and her experience of course, even going so far …
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/23 08:01 PM
1

Haha no worries, my friend. It’s all good.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/23 05:26 PM
4

Are you serious? 😂 Every guy has had authentic, non-flirtatious social interactions with women. It’s part of my life every day.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/23 05:18 PM
2

If I could transmit it into everyone’s brains here I would 😂 I was just chatting with you because I just got off work and was bored. Didn’t mean any harm or judgment from it. But I hope you have a good one!
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/23 05:12 PM
2

Yeah, I hear what you’re saying. I’m not disagreeing about that. But it’s not like every situation is a no-win one if you’re a woman. That’s all I’m saying. It’s tough to have these conversations because we’re all bringing our own personal experiences to the table, as well as whatever testimonies from others we have internalized. But we’re not objectively rational computers that spit out objectively true expressions of truth on this sub. Seems like we’re all just arguing about what we’ve persona…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/23 04:57 PM
3

Nah. Some women bad, some women good, some men bad, some men good.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/23 04:48 PM
6

Lol it happens all the time. Maybe the whole problem with this sub is no one thinks “it” happens to them.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/23 04:47 PM
7

Men can want to have sex with their girl friends without hitting on them at all or in ways the woman notices. This is obviously true, as well as instances in which women thought they were being hit on when they weren’t. These aren’t mutually exclusive. Some women are conceited, and some are naive.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/23 04:44 PM
1

I’m not sure I understand what you mean 🧐 I certainly don’t think relying solely on your partner for money and resources is a good idea, but it seems some wealthy men go for young women that are attractive who they ‘take care of.’ That’s what I was referencing.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/23 12:05 AM
1

That’s fair. I guess I don’t know much if anything about the women that are dating wealthy men — but they are objectively attractive according to conventional standards.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/10/23 11:30 PM
1

Would you say ‘high-status’ men with f*ck-you money care if women are unable to contribute financially or have high expectations relative to other women? Based on what I’ve seen, what those guys go for is primarily just looks.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/10/23 10:59 PM
8

Obviously, internet strangers know more about your preferences than you do 🙄 smh
/r/PurplePillDebate30/10/23 08:11 PM
3

My girlfriend talks about it a lot. It sucks :/ wish I could do something.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/10/23 11:59 PM
4

Gotta be precise today in our world in which trans is a thing.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/10/23 11:52 PM
20

“Pretty privilege,” right?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/10/23 11:51 PM
1

Got it. I didn’t know you were disagreeing with something so understandable. You believe men who unknowingly or mistakenly pursue trashy women who hurt them deserve no sympathy. That’s ridiculous. Let’s take an extreme example. Jim pursues Sally, who makes him seem like she’s ‘all that’ — put-together, employed, psychologically stable. Unbeknownst to him, he comes over to her place after a few amazing dates, and she robs him at gunpoint and breaks his kneecaps. You would say he doesn’t deserve s…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/10/23 08:15 PM
1

People make mistakes 😅
/r/PurplePillDebate29/10/23 07:44 PM
3

You literally did not include the word “knowingly” in your post title. Can you not see that..? The reason your CMV isn’t true isn’t because your sentiment isn’t right; it’s because in your post title you worded it in a way that is unclear, vague, and admits exceptions. That’s what I’m talking about. I’ve explained it three times now.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/10/23 07:36 PM
3

The way you phrased your CMV isn’t true. We should have sympathy for those guys who pursue trashy women and get hurt if they don’t know they’re trashy, or are deceived. That’s the issue. “If you choose to pursue trashy women over being single, stop expecting sympathy” is not the same position as “If men knowingly pursue trashy women over being single, they don’t deserve sympathy.”
/r/PurplePillDebate29/10/23 06:57 PM
3

I’m saying the way you phrased your CMV in the post title is too general. Do you think we shouldn’t have sympathy for guys who unknowingly pursue trashy women and get hurt? I agree we shouldn’t give them sympathy if they knowingly do that. I think you’re right about that.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/10/23 06:31 PM
2

Your CMV doesn’t match the sentiment you’re going for. Lots of men “choose to pursue trashy women” not knowing a lot of them are trashy. Don’t you think that they deserve some sympathy when they get hurt? That being said, if men knowingly pursue trashy women, I think it makes sense not to have sympathy for them. And if they pursue women that they know are commitment-averse, then it makes sense not to feel sorry for them when they report feeling negative emotion about their partner’s fidelity. Ge…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/10/23 06:21 PM
0

Perhaps OP was talking about breasts?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/10/23 02:12 PM
9

I think the gist is that men have to initiate and drive the conversation.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/10/23 09:59 PM
2

Yeah, the going can be tough..
/r/PurplePillDebate28/10/23 08:35 PM
3

Right. Some women have to do very little, and some have to do more. I feel like it’s the same with men — though I’m guessing the average guy is gonna say he’ll have to do more than the average woman to get a date/partner.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/10/23 08:32 PM
3

Relationships can be great! Wouldn’t you go to great lengths to find a partner if you valued relationships highly and they were required to meet your other goals/dreams?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/10/23 08:27 PM
1

I can empathize with your experience, because it’s been similar to mine. But I have a close friend who doesn’t have luck dating or sex-wise. He’s not a bad guy, good-looking enough, funny (which in my experience women like). But he’s been having a hell of a time. He says he’s going to “have to put a lot of work in” to find a girlfriend or wife, because it just doesn’t seem to be working out. I think he means maxing out his appeal: working out, buying more expensive clothing, brushing up on philo…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/10/23 08:23 PM
1

I just want to comment on the last thing you said here. (I don’t have the desire or drive to comment on the other stuff, and I don’t think I actually disagree much with you.) I don’t think you understand what I meant by the end of my last comment. Metaphysics, axiology, worldview, etc. absolutely are prior to science — that it’s done, how it’s done, if/when we consider it’s done, etc. What we scientifically investigate is determined by what we value and our conception of the good. What “counts” …
/r/PurplePillDebate28/10/23 07:01 PM
1

Thanks for your response! I’m interpreting “eugenics” generally, as “utilizing the powers of reproduction to produce people with positive traits.” On this definition, insofar as individuals make decisions towards this goal, consciously or unconsciously, intentionally or unintentionally, they’re being a eugenicist. But I’m not committed to this way of viewing things — it’s just what was in my mind when I wrote the post. Wouldn’t you say there are traits obectively more suited for survival and flo…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/10/23 03:21 PM
1

I really appreciate it..! I know people do that with other terms too. (Hell, I’m probably guilty of that — and with regards to this “sexual selection” thing too because, to be honest, I don’t know the technical, scientific definition.). Thanks again for sharing your perspective with me. It’s helped.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/10/23 01:58 PM
1

This is kind of what I’ve been coming to believe too. I don’t see how I could disentangle all of it. Seems really complex.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/10/23 01:46 PM
1

Oh yeah, I’ve done a lot of reading on determinism. I was under the impression that “sexual selection” for a lot of people is something like a process/choice/phenomenon that has deterministic consequences. And that it may be something is actually determined by what has ‘come before’ (e.g. the genes of the woman, the choices ancestors made, their genes, etc.). I’m not trying to trick anyone here or use rhetoric — I’m genuinely asking what y’all think (and, perhaps, revealing my own limited, wrong…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/10/23 01:44 PM
1

Ah, okay I think I understand what you mean. So then I wonder what that implies if anything about women’s causal and moral responsibility for the patriarchy existing (assuming our society is a patriarchy). I would agree that (1) “the social decisions women make have biological impact” and (2) “biological concerns have less impact on decisions women make than social concerns.” But I, perhaps ridiculously according to my colleagues, believe something like free will exists — I don’t adhere to the c…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/10/23 01:32 PM
3

So you’re saying that the biological choices women make have very little social impact? 🧐 just trying to interpret you correct here (I’m a little dense). If so, I don’t see why many people would believe that unless they don’t adhere to a materialist metaphysics, unless they think humans have some spooky free will that escapes scientific explanation. Otherwise, aren’t the genes driving everything?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/10/23 01:15 PM
3

I didn’t read “horny beasts” as meaning complete lack of free will and moral responsibility.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/10/23 04:06 AM
6

The majority of them are men, sure. But what percentage of these sexual encounters are non-consensual? It would seem that, if this data is correct and we do care about women, we should discourage men and women from this behavior. Would you agree?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/10/23 11:08 PM
7

I think you’re right. In the last, I was fitter than one of my ex’s — smaller, actually, because we were the same height and she was very overweight. It was a constant source of insecurity, anxiety, and stress for her, since she just couldn’t seem to lose weight.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/10/23 04:43 PM
1

Yeah, many things are rough. But as my old buddy in graduate school once said one night — wide-eyed, knowing, and in a rare moment of wasted lucidity — “Man.. the only way out is through.”
/r/PurplePillDebate27/10/23 02:37 PM
1

No, of course these women wouldn’t be happy. But a woman being divorced later if she marries early is not a done-deal. What these traditionally-minded thinkers would like to see is a return to traditional relationships and family structures. They think humans were happier, better off, and stayed together longer. I’m not arguing for or against that (just explaining it). But these same traditionally-minded thinkers would locate the problem in (1) cultural and moral degeneration, (2) lack of religi…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/10/23 02:32 PM
3

“As long as the guy’s attractive…”
/r/PurplePillDebate27/10/23 02:17 PM
1

From what I can tell, the messaging coming from men against being a career woman comes in two types: (1) messaging trying to hold women to an antiquated ideal and way of life, and (2) advice telling women, look, you can do what you want, but this probably isn’t going to make you happy. The only messaging I’ve come across lately is the latter, if it has anything to do with women at all, due to the digital media I consume and have shared with me.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/10/23 02:14 PM
1

Well put!
/r/PurplePillDebate27/10/23 03:41 AM
5

Hell yes — right with you, ROB.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/10/23 01:21 AM
6

I agree. Now, could we say the same about women too? Everything is everybody’s fault, and it’s on men and women to be better?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/10/23 01:17 AM
–

Spent a month (~20 hours) learning to play a song (our song) an ex loved on guitar so I could perform it for/to her. Spent a few weeks (~20 hours) working on a painting (about 9 sq ft) of the moon for an ex who was an artist (a special symbol in our relationship). Spent about a month (~30 hours) learning ASL so I could communicate in a different way with her, which was a significant part of her education and social life.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/10/23 06:22 PM
5

I’m not so sure the average woman does. I don’t buy “women sacrifice all of this and more.” Many women want to be in relationship and intensely so, in communication. Many men just want to be left alone. It comes down to a difference in values and desires. Men want to be in relationship too, but not in the same way women do. I can only speak from my experience, but i am infinitely more productive (on my personal projects, dreams, goals, professional obligations) when my partner isn’t around. So m…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/10/23 01:28 PM
8

Good question. It’s probably going to vary from relationship to relationship, but I think a lot of men would say they’re sacrificing things. Like: free time, peace, capital and financial security, their own dreams, productivity, freedom in general, job freedom, health, etc. I get the sense that a lot of guys will work themselves to the bone, in a job they hate, sacrificing their time, money, and freedom because they ‘need to provide.’ They don’t feel like they can change or switch jobs, because …
/r/PurplePillDebate26/10/23 11:57 AM
9

My question is, “How are we defining ‘romance’ here?” I know plenty of men (and women) that sacrifice for their partner, but this isn’t necessarily romantic. Sacrifice is often just a part of doing one’s duty. “Women make more sacrifices for men” is too general and vague to be true in this context. Based on my experiences, all of the men in my life have sacrificed more for their women partners. We’ll have to get more specific with our analysis. To think men don’t sacrifice their “independence, d…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/10/23 11:20 AM
3

Isn’t OP just saying that women who knowingly lead men on are ‘using’ the guy, which is immoral like a man ‘using’ a woman for sex? Both seem common enough.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/10/23 01:59 AM
1

Definitely.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/10/23 10:46 PM
1

If we define “Patriarchy” as “system of social organization where men hold the majority of formal positions of power and authority,” then I’d agree that western society is a Patriarchy. But I feel like it’s often used as a magic word by feminists to state and imply all kinds of dubious things. Would you say that women are oppressed now? What’s your definition of “oppression?” I would say for thousands of years men and women have had differing privileges and disadvantages, and, while these shift,…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/10/23 09:43 PM
1

Well, the grass always seems greener cuz we’re looking at the privileges of the other side through our own gendered lense. To take just one example.. As a guy, I would kill to have the same attention on me that the average woman does. But negative attention isn’t a worry, because I can defend myself, ya know? It doesn’t enter into the equation.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/10/23 08:26 PM
2

Ah, okay that makes sense. Thanks for the response. I think some men wouldn’t see continually asking for sex as coercive, which creates problems obviously.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/10/23 08:06 PM
3

I just want to comment on the last thing you’ve said here. Whenever “Patriarchy” comes up, it’s argued ‘men have the power in society.’ While it’s true that historically men have held the formal positions of power and authority, the vast majority of men do not have the power that is ascribed to ‘men.’ The average guy deals with gendered expectations, norms, and roles just like women, albeit different ones. I, as a man, have no power to change things, really. I don’t think enough conversations ar…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/10/23 08:02 PM
1

I’m sorry to hear that you’ve had these negative experiences. Many women in my life have experienced SA — that sucks. Just a quick question for you though: how would you define “coercion?” I think men and women tend to define it differently, which can often lead to these ‘boundary-crossing experiences where guys don’t think they’ve done anything wrong. EDIT: Asking an honest question here, because men and women tend to see things differently. Why the downvotes..?
/r/PurplePillDebate25/10/23 07:47 PM
5

Got it — thanks for the info.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/10/23 01:05 AM
3

I wonder if anyone’s done research on when these addictions spring up. Do the majority of prostitutes have addictions already, or does addiction tend to start after they’ve chosen to be a prostitute?
/r/PurplePillDebate25/10/23 01:04 AM
6

I think some may argue that doing it ‘for free’ implies the promiscuous person has a character flaw, whereas someone who does it for a job may not have the same character flaw (or what they’re doing may be justifiable based on need).
/r/PurplePillDebate25/10/23 12:56 AM
5

Well, some people think “exploitation” can still exist even if one consents to the situation. (I don’t follow this view, but I feel like it’s a common economic presupposition.)
/r/PurplePillDebate25/10/23 12:53 AM
6

What exactly is involved in this kind of relationship?
/r/PurplePillDebate25/10/23 12:52 AM
–

Ah interesting. So that lack of ‘aesthetic mentorship’ maybe hurts men’s prospects.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/23 11:52 PM
3

Are you saying that the majority of sex workers aren’t doing so voluntarily? (In my mind, a “sex worker” is different than someone who is trafficked, for example.) Or are you saying that choice of profession is unusual?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/23 11:19 PM
14

I agree, but wouldn’t you say the sexual revolution and sex positive movement have changed people’s opinions on women’s promiscuity, so that nowadays woman are encouraged to have causal sex and in general it’s bad form to judge a woman for her ‘body count?’
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/23 11:17 PM
–

Ah, so are you saying beyond the simple stuff men aren’t given much more specific stuff to go on to get women interested in them?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/23 10:34 PM
–

Ah, interesting. A similar thing is happening with men and porn, would you say? (Though I’m not sure what kind of effect this is having on men.)
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/23 10:31 PM
–

Could you expand on this? I’m interested in this view but don’t know what you’re alluding to.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/23 09:29 PM
–

Idk, don’t all guys just intuitively know that they need to bathe, trim facial hair, dress well, exercise, etc.? What else is expected really that they can control?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/23 09:29 PM
–

How likely is it do you think that women in general say they want one thing from a man but act as if they want something else? This seems to be one of the central disagreements that underlies so much of what is posted here.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/23 09:27 PM
–

Ah, that’s a fair point. I don’t have any social media besides Reddit (if that counts), but my girlfriend does. She spends considerable time looking at online photos and posts, which usually have images. I’m pretty sure that contributes negatively to her own self-esteem. And she echoed something similar as well: I asked her about one of the posts on here earlier, and she said that guys will go for even “crazy” women if they are hot. That suggests to me that, maybe for men, physical attractivenes…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/23 08:30 PM
–

Do you think that’s because women face pressure(s) to do so that men don’t experience? Are there other reasons for this as well? Like do women value beauty in general more than men, or vice versa? Do women in general want to appear as beautiful more than men do?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/23 08:19 PM
3

I’m not sure the majority of men would actually find this to be a problem 😂 there are a lot of horny guys out there.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/23 06:32 PM
1

Right, that’s a good question. I think the manosphere would say society is “gynocentric” in that women are valued and treated better in general than men. I think feminism would say the opposite, that men are valued and treated better in general than women. But I’m not sure it’s that cut-and-dry. I think men and women have differing privileges and disadvantages.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/10/23 04:09 PM
5

Got it. So you think it’s more appropriate to analyze it all in terms of who has formal political power. I’m not part of the manosphere, or redpill, or whatever it’s called nowadays, but I don’t think it’s “delusional” to call society gynocentric if one believes that women have a lot of soft power and if men do what they do primarily for women. But I guess that would be where a lot of disagreement lies between these two views. I’m pretty agnostic at this point on this question. EDIT: But I would…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/10/23 01:12 PM
2

This is exactly the point of contention between progressives and non-progressives. What work is “cause” doing in your sentence? Progressives believe that society is deterministically structured to advantage some groups and disadvantage others. Non-progressives don’t think people are determined to fail socially or economically. It’s obvious that many factors are correlated with one’s socio-economic fate, that many factors contribute to one’s socio-economic fate. But how big is this contribution? …
/r/PurplePillDebate21/10/23 01:39 AM
2

Do you think that society is in general gynocentric?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/10/23 01:32 AM
3

Maybe..! Although part of me thinks that some guys are just going to do this regardless lol. It’s definitely not women’s job to make men happy or appease them all the time, but showing empathy may be a nice thing to do.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/10/23 10:14 AM
2

As far as I can tell, they’re not “losing” something by dating — they’re just experiencing negative emotion from making a comparison and perceiving they’re coming out ‘on the bottom.’ I’m not saying it’s cool or desirable, but just that lots of guys compare themselves to their object of desire’s hook-ups.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/10/23 02:23 AM
5

Most guys have no way of knowing what her past experiences have exactly been. Unsurprisingly, a guy might not be all that happy if he concludes that he is not ‘good enough’ to break past that physical barrier where other guys have succeeded. I’m not so sure it’s a fear so much as an insecurity, but it’s an understandable insecurity nonetheless, analogous to women wondering, I suppose, whether or not they are ‘good enough’ for the man to commit to them rather than just sleep with them.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/10/23 01:31 AM
–

I see your point, but I don’t agree that every aspect of masculinity and femininity that people are conditioned into is unnatural. (You could argue that it is restrictive, or technically that any form of conditioning is restrictive. I would agree the conditioning has been somewhat restrictive.)
/r/PurplePillDebate28/09/23 03:00 PM
–

Trans-ness, like queerness, cannot help but reinscribe the very gender and sex roles it often seeks to undermine. One cannot change genders or sexes unless there are real, objective differences between them. And one cannot undermine traditional gender roles and concepts without implicitly referencing them.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/09/23 11:17 AM
–

Do you believe that people can act contrary to their instincts? I think OP wrote this post because they think humans have been conditioned to think and act in ways contrary to what feels natural to them.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/09/23 11:15 AM
–

Because OP seems to believe that occupying these roles would be good for the majority of people. Don’t you try to advocate for what you think is beneficial to people..?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/09/23 11:11 AM
–

I understand what you mean, but I wouldn’t expect women to say things like that. Because women do not police other women to inhabit a particular initiatory, decisive, active role like men do to each other. Men and women don’t see each other the same way. Our roles are different, and so are the priorities and values that we are conditioned into having. If men and women were literally the inverse of each other, I would expect this asymmetry in language, but they’re not.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/09/23 02:08 AM
–

I’ve thought about this, and I don’t think men are actually intending to demean women when they say things like, “What are you, a girl?” What men seem to be doing when they test each other like this is accuse them of not living up to the role they are supposed to. So men say that the guy is a woman because logically speaking that seems to be the opposite of what a man is called to be (I.e. in their use of the word, woman = not man), not because women, or being a woman, or the traits of women are…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/09/23 12:27 AM
2

Yeah, I agree. I mean, I am kind of feminine myself, and I think I was taught to lean into that in some ways.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/09/23 10:01 PM
3

Do you just have a ‘sense’ that femininity is “presented as lessee?” Because almost every man I know thinks femininity is great and wants women to lean into it more. Yeah, norms are exclusionary, perhaps in a mean way. But up until recently, it was the norm for men and women to play their respective roles: of course both were “expected.” This is how it always was, and it worked good enough for survival and a modicum of happiness. Men weren’t praised for breaking their backs and work to support a…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/09/23 07:16 PM
3

Ironically, women’s freedom has resulted in producing a situation in which people are (in part) less free. Women have to work in part because women entered the workforce en masse, deflating wages and making work necessary. (Of course that’s just one small part of this clusterf*ck of a situation we have going on now.) Men want women to pay for dates now because of the wage issue and they spitefully want to hold women to the new ‘equal’ standard we’re all supposed to live by. (For many man, being …
/r/PurplePillDebate26/09/23 06:49 PM
9

Are you implying here that “masculine traits” are financially compensated? Pretty sure people are financially compensated for providing perceived value to society, not because of “traits.” Sucks society doesn’t recognize a lot of women’s labor as valuable though.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/09/23 04:45 PM
4

What are you saying exactly? “Most” men or men “on average” don’t care about their partners if they’re getting laid? Either way, I don’t think that’s true. Makes want female attention. Sure, we are motivated by sex, but look at all the things men have done throughout history and continue to do for women with sex or even the promise of it.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/23 07:54 PM
-1

I think that depends on the nature, frequency, and number of those relationships. I don’t think it’s crazy for a guy to have second thoughts about dating a woman who’s slept with over 20 people, for example, if he’s slept with 5. If a woman has slept with over 100 people, you don’t think that reveals anything about her character? It seems like you’re saying, “This fact doesn’t necessitate that the woman has any certain characteristics,” but that’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying that people can …
/r/PurplePillDebate23/09/23 03:54 AM
0

It can be, but no man I know uses it to disparage. They use to it more precisely and accurately communicate information.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/09/23 03:49 AM
0

The average man? Ah, whatever. I don’t have the energy or drive to argue about this. I don’t care. Forget I said anything lol.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/09/23 03:32 AM
1

Yes, it wouldn’t necessitate that, but that’s beside the point. I just simply don’t agree that men on average are having more partners than women on average. But if you disagree, that’s fine.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/09/23 03:30 AM
2

I thought there are more men who are virgins than women nowadays. Is that not true?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/09/23 03:20 AM
0

For men, it’s not usually the fact that “there were a few other dicks in [your] vagina at some point” that matters: it’s what they think those actions imply about your character. Different men have different opinions about what such behavior implies or doesn’t imply.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/09/23 03:18 AM
-1

Would it be morally repugnant for a man to want a woman who doesn’t have more sexual partners than him? Because it would seem nowadays that the average woman has had more sexual partners than the average man.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/09/23 03:10 AM
2

Yeah, “double standard” is not the right phrase. Men and women have different “preferences.” It’s not necessarily “hypocritical” to have a preference for something you aren’t, don’t have, or don’t do.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/09/23 03:08 AM
–

There’s nothing egoistic about accurately appraising one’s own value. (It was a virtue in ancient Greece, and it’s an implicit requirement to avoid being walked all over.) People just don’t see that often because most people are either really arrogant or have self-esteem issues. But I do concede that some people (maybe the majority? I’m not sure) who claim to be “settling for less” do have an inflated ego.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/09/23 03:02 PM
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