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NoLettuce7713 Archive

View 0 posts and 95 comments by NoLettuce7713 on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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Upvotes Comment on Subreddit Date (UTC)
3

I would encourage everyone here to continue advocating for men's rights while also understanding and empathizing with the ways in which women are oppressed by our society. That's a fair and balanced thing to say. And yes, "patriarchy" isn't the most useful vocabulary in the area of men's issues. It's too... pliable. If you want to talk about a system of roles and expectations assigned according to gender or sex, then use another word for that, since the same system emerges in matriarchal structu…
/r/MensRights07/04/22 06:15 AM
7

It depends how you define sexism. If society tolerates a situation in which a vital institution and life contributor (education) appears to be favouring one gender over another, that's sexism right?
/r/MensRights07/04/22 04:38 AM
9

Holy fuck. That's dark. I never saw this in my teaching career but I'm definitely aware that some female-dominated environments go toxic in a serious way. My partner, a drug and alcohol counsellor, was basically driven out of his job along with all his male colleagues (and one female one) by a cadre of women bent on getting rid of them. They even stooped to hiring a quack "expert" to make the claim that drug and alcohol counsellors all needed to have experience as drug addicts themselves. EDIT: …
/r/MensRights07/04/22 04:30 AM
6

It's fine. I was trying to point out the irony that only you have the supreme objectivity to judge that everyone else's motivation is to try to make themselves feel better, while you have no feelings at all about it.
/r/MensRights07/04/22 02:15 AM
7

If that makes you feel better...
/r/MensRights07/04/22 02:04 AM
7

Congratulations on dismissing millenia of philosophy and religion with your unassailable logic. That must make you feel better.
/r/MensRights07/04/22 01:56 AM
7

Men exist to fight. Men exist to build, to restore, to write, to compose, to solve problems, to ask questions, to love, to make love, to teach, to learn. We categorically do not exist to fight, even though we are capable of it and sometimes it is necessary to do it. Strict biological determinism is the final and most sad nadir of Western thought.
/r/MensRights07/04/22 01:51 AM
6

In my state/country, high schools used to be separated into more vocational and hands-on Colleges and more academic High Schools. The former tended to have a larger number of boys. These have been combined for some time now, and some schools today do a poor job of offering the technology subjects you mention (often due to lack of trained staff and facilities). Students generally have to wait until senior years to have access to vocational course options. There is a small number of schools that s…
/r/MensRights07/04/22 01:21 AM
8

There is a bit more research now into what works for boys and what doesn't. Some of the conclusions are counter to what many assume. For example, many assume that adding more of a competitive element to classroom academic activities will engage boys more, but this does not seem to be borne out by the research. Making appropriate and engaging books available for boys definitely has value.
/r/MensRights07/04/22 01:13 AM
27

I don't disagree with any of those points but not sure what they have to do with my comment. A lifetime earnings gap and an education gap are two distinct problems. The former, which affects women as a group, receives a lot of attention. The latter, which will increasingly affect men as a group, receives almost none.
/r/MensRights06/04/22 11:53 PM
8

Don't misunderstand me - I have huge respect for teachers. I was one myself. I just get frustrated when the lack of male teachers is blamed on pay, because it suggests men will only do a job if the pay is high - demonstrably false. Instead, what's happened is what you would expect when one gender comes to dominate a profession. It morphs in such a way that it suits that gender more - the lifestyle and social aspects, the team environment, the emphases, everything. It's a reinforcing feedback loo…
/r/MensRights06/04/22 11:48 PM
18

I wasn't even thinking about the content. The job today is stuck in-between being a "calling" and a real profession. Teachers are expected to do an unreasonable range and quantity of different roles and tasks that would be laughed at in most other careers. The teachers who survive set up their own hard boundaries and learn to say 'no' to pretty much everything they get asked to do, but many people find that too difficult.
/r/MensRights06/04/22 11:22 PM
-1

All good points. I don't disagree with any of them. Except that there are women working in the various areas of men's health, as well as advocacy for it. EDIT: Damn, downvoted for agreeing with someone who is upvoted. Such objectivity.
/r/MensRights06/04/22 11:19 PM
-1

You think 4th wave feminism is inclusive to men? It's also a mixed bag, which is a point well made by the article. Those feminists who spout those lines should be more concerned about how both men and women see their movement. My reference to the earliest women's movements was how they were both classist and racist - even modern feminists are embarrassed by them.
/r/MensRights06/04/22 11:16 PM
22

I agree we need action to get men into teaching, but the job itself needs reforming badly. It's not just pay that has driven more men than women away from it.
/r/MensRights06/04/22 11:10 PM
104

The pushback hasn't changed. 17 years ago, when I was undertaking my Diploma in Education, the "educational contexts" guest lecturer on gender was a feminist who had nothing to say about the increasing concerns about boys' education, except that it didn't matter because boys "walk straight into higher paying careers". That sort of short-term thinking couldn't be excused then. It certainly can't be now, when we're seeing a growing gap in tertiary education too. We're now seeing the beginning of a…
/r/MensRights06/04/22 11:09 PM
14

Ehh. Garland has a thing about male power and control. See, eg. Ex Machina. Annihilation just lacked male characters entirely.
/r/MensRights06/04/22 11:01 PM
-1

Successful men's movements today need to be inclusive. Look at the mistakes made in the earliest women's movements. Articles like this show that there are women willing to do the work of paring out the various positive and negative sub-movements within the "manosphere" and trying to find the gold, which is a very positive development in a time when men's advocates get smeared and grouped together so much. I agree with you insofar as men's advocates shouldn't have to feel like they need to cowtow…
/r/MensRights06/04/22 10:39 PM
3

You've done a lot more than the linked article, which promises to explain the word and then does not. Judging by the male fandom surrounding Elon Musk and Tesla, it seems like electric vehicles are also part of the American male identity. (FWIW, I don't think replacing all petrol cars with electric cars is a real solution to our planet's resource limits, or to climate change.)
/r/MensRights06/04/22 04:48 AM
3

I get arguments for why it shouldn't be illegal, but it's just bizarre how common it is in the US, especially when most people have no strict religious reason. To me, it's like abortion. The less it happens the better, but making it illegal isn't necessarily right.
/r/MensRights06/04/22 04:23 AM
5

By your own admission, that was a choice on your part. Curious though, how did you get permission? Even adult men have to jump through certain hoops.
/r/MensRights06/04/22 04:16 AM
10

He was also a carpenter. Should we force babies to be carpenters?
/r/MensRights06/04/22 04:15 AM
5

What children have vasectomies?
/r/MensRights06/04/22 04:12 AM
23

For those interested, the official Responsibilities of an Australian Citizen aren't gendered. As an Australian citizen you must: obey the laws of Australia vote in federal and state or territory elections, and in a referendum defend Australia should the need arise serve on jury duty if called to do so However, we have had male-only military conscription in this nation as recently as the Vietnam war (ended in 1970s).
/r/MensRights06/04/22 03:57 AM
32

While this gender bias in responders should have raised a red flag for the methodological validity of the survey, You're not wrong! With access to the data, it would be possible to randomly remove excess male responses in the upper age groups and excess female responses in the lower age groups such that the apparent gender bias is eliminated. But that wouldn't resolve the methodological issues. The high proportion of male respondents in the 65+ bracket (91% male!) tells us it's clearly not a ran…
/r/MensRights06/04/22 03:23 AM
11

Talk about needlessly gendered. There's almost nothing differentiating men and women in the article. All I could find was: When it comes to the environment, 90% of [okcupid] users care about it, and women are 7% more likely than men to care. 7% would put men at maybe 87-88% and women at 92-93%, assuming a 50/50 user split. Not exactly an earth-shattering difference. The company has also found that climate change and environment questions generate 7.5 million responses worldwide, and it is the to…
/r/MensRights06/04/22 02:35 AM
3

As I understand it, they're generally referring to political leaders, religious leaders, military leaders, and heads of corporations and economic bodies. It is true that a tiny subset of men did, and still do, occupy the majority of those positions worldwide. As others have pointed out, pretty much every feminist sub-sub-subgroup has their own definition of "patriarchy". It usually encompasses much more than the above, but they will often retreat to the more limited, strict definition if it suit…
/r/MensRights06/04/22 02:09 AM
23

This isn't a serious proposal but a kind of sarcastic, bitter rant. In the long term, this transational approach would backfire on women - at some point their sex's unique ability to perform this labour will no longer be unique. Even before that men could just find cheaper surrogates overseas. Globalisation baby. Meanwhile, in the rest of the world, there are nations that take paid parental leave for dads seriously enough to produce real cultural change, and still allow abortions. What a notion.
/r/MensRights06/04/22 01:56 AM
1

Reddit doesn't reward high-effort comments or posts. People just want to make gotcha points and move on. It's the reason I deleted my previous account and went off the site for a number of months. But I keep coming back - guess I'm a masochist. The correct response to OP is: TM is a shitty term to describe something real - that men do in fact labour under outdated and harmful gender expectations. Unfortunately, you're going to have to interact with people using and misusing the term, but it does…
/r/MensRights05/04/22 10:01 PM
4

Gender expectations for men are currently in a state of flux. On one side, you've got people who are just traditionalists at heart when it comes to how men should behave. They still expect chivalry from men, but they may or may not apply traditional views to the policing of women's behaviour. On the other side, you've got people who are honestly critical of harmful gender expectations faced by men as well as women. Many of those people (unfortunately) use unhelpful terms like Toxic Masculinity. …
/r/MensRights05/04/22 06:31 AM
1

Language isn't rational but social. Can you think of anything that overwhelmingly receives the adjective "toxic" that has not become widely considered to be toxic, or at least negatively viewed? There are toxic work environments or toxic relationships, but we regularly talk about work environments without that adjective, as we do about relationships.
/r/MensRights05/04/22 05:57 AM
9

You've pointed out an oft-neglected piece of the puzzle when it comes men's wellbeing. The atomisation of society has done a particularly bad number on men. In this context, it's up to men ourselves to do the uncomfortable work of reaching out to build and maintain connections with friends, brothers, etc. - work that used to seem more natural and effortless because more social infrastructure was still in place.
/r/MensRights05/04/22 05:45 AM
1

Those feminists who appropriated and popularised the term were in such a high ivory tower that it didn't occur to them that most people don't automatically think "masculinity" refers to expectations. They just wanted something snappy, but it turned into a perfect blame stick to use against men.
/r/MensRights05/04/22 05:12 AM
4

I accept that the phenomenon exists. I just hate the term and I think it is the epitomy of counterproductivity from the point of view of positive social change. It is alienating the very men who most suffer from it, pitching them against everyone else and denying them appropriate vocabulary to assert their own liberation from gender expectations.
/r/MensRights05/04/22 04:55 AM
5

All of this stuff could be identified as unhealthy gender expectations on men, harmful ideas associated with maleness, or even as Performative Masculinity. Toxic Masculinity is just a shitty term that too easily lends itself to abuse.
/r/MensRights05/04/22 04:46 AM
4

I consider myself pretty thoughtful and I think TM and TF are both terrible pieces of vocabulary with major problems destined to make them divisive and misunderstood. Only one of them became mainstream, though.
/r/MensRights05/04/22 04:31 AM
9

How tf is toxic masculinity a sexist and hateful term? This has been discussed a number of times here and elsewhere. Toxic Masculinity has a number of problems in mainstream discourse, including: the Labelling Effect: it results in society associating masculinity in general with toxicity an assumption of masculinity defined only as a social phenomenon: many people understand masculinity as synonymous with maleness, and even with innate traits lack of gender balance: though it's sometimes claimed…
/r/MensRights05/04/22 04:09 AM
8

TF never gets mentioned, which is why so many people are so jaded and suspicious of the term TM and those who use it.
/r/MensRights05/04/22 04:02 AM
4

We must realize that these mythological stories are meant to explain the world, why things are the way they are. I disagree, but I do think it's common in modern times to view ancient myths that way - a form of chronological snobbery. Ancient myths are not written to explain why things are the way they are - this is the same mistake modern creationists make. Myths point to, or challenge, readily identifiable truths about human relationships between eachother and the natural world (and, in the ca…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/04/22 03:24 AM
8

When your teacher says, 'Aren't many of those problems caused by the patriarchy?', you need to ask why? Is it so that the problems can be dismissed? That they're already being taken care of? Most people agree that a social system existed which assigned roles to males and females according to their gender, and that we still live with the legacy of that system in many ways. The problem with "patriarchy" as an identifier is that it places the emphasis on who occupied certain positions of government…
/r/MensRights05/04/22 12:45 AM
3

It's increasingly apparent that, in spite of mens' reputation as "the default gender", the male experience is actually quite alien and unknown for those who are not male. The Empathy Gap is sometimes mentioned on this sub, and I think it really applies here. The increased visibility of gender minorities like trans men may have a very positive effect on the ability of non-males to gain more understanding and empathy for the male experience, in the same way that the increased acceptance of sexual …
/r/MensRights04/04/22 11:34 PM
2

the word "privilege" which has connotation that differ from the meaning used by SJWs Yeah, I find that word really jars. To me, it has always referred to a clueless and morally reprehensible aristocracy, a child with a silver spoon in their mouth saying "then let them eat cake!"
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/04/22 11:14 PM
11

God basically creates traditional gender norms explicitly as a punishment for eating the forbidden fruit This is interesting, though. It suggests that traditional gender norms were never the ideal or intended state, but actually part of the imperfect social structure that characterises the separation of humanity from full relationship with God and the planet.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/04/22 10:57 PM
8

This. It's kind of pointless to ask "what does the bible teach?". It's more about how do different churches and denominations use it to teach? If you take evangelical churches in the US, you'll typically find the scriptures being used to bolster tradcon norms: the nuclear family, male "leadership" within that family unit, male sacrifice, male sexuality is dirty and corrupting while female sexuality is pure and corruptable. If you take the liberal mainline churches, you'll find a lot more emphasi…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/04/22 10:49 PM
5

This reminds me of that classroom sign that personally welcomes everyone except white males. If they were looking for a way to make one sub-group feel left out and resentful, they found it.
/r/MensRights04/04/22 10:10 PM
1

physical disability Not just physical. Forest Gump had cognitive challenges too.
/r/MensRights04/04/22 09:11 AM
17

I never really viewed that rhyme that way. I always thought it meant women smell nice, are generally meek, and cautious. While boys reek of adventure and curiosity, which I liked. The truth is, boys and girls (at least statistically) are different in many ways, most of which are complimentary. Equality for the win, none of this one-sided stuff. I used to interpret it that way too, but now I think that was a bit naive. Old rhymes for children typically have a more serious, instructive message tha…
/r/MensRights04/04/22 06:38 AM
31

The other half of that old rhyme is "snips and snails and puppy-dog tails; that's what little boys are made of" The rhyme itself is considered old-fashioned today, but the core message is still the common, underlying view of the genders, especially when it comes to sexuality. Male sexuality is dirty, predatory, corrupting. Female sexuality is pure, good, corruptable. Endless amounts of ink have been spilled over how that view of female sexuality harms women (and it does). As for men, that one is…
/r/MensRights04/04/22 06:04 AM
4

I actually think more people would see the problem with this than 10-20 years ago. Companies are still going to manufacture sexist crap that sells, just like you can still find greeting cards with hackneyed jokes about dumb blondes.
/r/MensRights04/04/22 05:07 AM
2

So many people seem to come on this sub and point out that men here complain about outdated, harmful and unhealthy gender expectations, and then wonder why they won't use their pet term (toxic masculinity) as the identifier for this. Have you considered that the term is just divisive and confusing? At least a few mental health initiatives working with men now deliberately avoid using the term because of its assocations and problems.
/r/MensRights04/04/22 03:18 AM
2

Late reply, but I wanted to respond to this. While most people here would agree with you that gender expectations on men can be harmful and unhealthy, the term "toxic masculinity" is divisive overall and particularly unhelpful in forums like this. There's a few reasons for this: Labelling. Placing the word "toxic" next to "masculinity" has the predictable effect of people associating toxicity with masculinity in general. This is particularly so as the term has escaped the bounds of academia and …
/r/MensRights04/04/22 03:07 AM
114

Another issue not mentioned here yet is education. School performance of boys continues to fall behind girls in a number of developed nations, and fewer men are undertaking tertiary education (in the US, for example). At the same time, the proportion of male teachers continues to freefall. If left unchecked, these trends will almost certainly lead to a long-term, entrenched education gap affecting boys and men. Unrelated, but my own bandwagon is social isolation, which I think has a disproportio…
/r/MensRights01/04/22 09:13 PM
1

Yeah, I'm going to block you now.
/r/MensRights01/04/22 02:35 AM
1

Yeah, I agree. I used language like "can" because I think there's a possibility of certain ideas creeping in that are unhelpful, but I don't think it has to happen. I'm optimistic that effective progress is being made for men in this area.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/04/22 02:31 AM
1

OK, well feel free to focus on redefining human beings. This post is about the specific issue of male suicide.
/r/MensRights01/04/22 02:29 AM
1

No one is asking the "entire mental health care system" to change its language. It's about targeting groups that are underserviced. A service funded for LGBTQI+ health would be expected to tailor its messaging and approach to that community, would it not? As for "man made" and "mankind", those sorts of terms are used less now than they once were, and I don't see them being used in campaigns for health issues that disproportionately affect women, eg. breast cancer.
/r/MensRights01/04/22 12:55 AM
1

The example you're referring to is one of many, and it's in a specific cultural context. As I said, many of these initiatives are new. They're really trying to see what sticks, and many have had success. words like “man made” or “mankind” aren’t supposed to be a problem for women. What does that have to do with anything? Should they colour all mental health meds blue so men will take them? I don't think that would be effective, no.
/r/MensRights01/04/22 12:46 AM
2

What exactly do you want here? You started by ridiculing someone for pointing out the influence of feminist ideas in campaigns for men's mental health. Now you're chastising me for not explaining "how modern mental health care isn't suited to men" when I've already pointed you to a booklet on that topic. Grow up.
/r/MensRights01/04/22 12:40 AM
2

gender roles don’t prevent access to services? So then, why are you complaining about lack of services based on gender? Obviously because the services being accessed were not suitable or appropriate. ie. they weren't male-friendly or male-tailored. The problem is not that men are too proud/toxic/manly to reach out or to try to access perfectly valid services that are available. That notion comes very close to victim blaming. Here's a booklet produced by the AMHF that talks about male-friendly he…
/r/MensRights01/04/22 12:32 AM
2

I have say that I don't think you're engaging in good faith here, but I'll try to explain it in a different way. It is increasingly being recognised that mental health services - poor as they are for everyone - are particularly poorly-tailored when it comes to men. Initiatives and services have begun to address this, but many of them are still in very early stages that might be considered experimental or "early adopter". A common trait that appears in many publically-funded services and awarenes…
/r/MensRights01/04/22 12:10 AM
2

You can read this comment for an explanation of the argument.
/r/MensRights31/03/22 11:24 PM
2

The effectiveness of initiatives for men's mental health is jeapordised by all sorts of different things. This is not the same as blaming those things for suicides in the first place.
/r/MensRights31/03/22 11:07 PM
4

FFS did you even read the comment? No one in this thread is claiming that feminism is the cause of male suicide. The argument being made is that certain approaches to men's mental health are overly influenced by feminist ideas around masculinity, which limits their effectiveness at stemming male suicide.
/r/MensRights31/03/22 10:47 PM
15

I think (hope) that some of the data is affected by generational differences. It can be argued that today's cohort of men over 50 have been hit by two forces at once. A lifestyle that has centred work and career much more than their equivalent female cohort (statistically), and a wave of social isolation after the collapse of community-level voluntary social outlets that their own fathers and grandfathers were highly involved with. For someone who is only in their 20s now, we don't necessarily n…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/03/22 10:42 PM
4

What a pointless comment. You can't complain about subs like this lacking nuance and then dismiss nuanced arguments when they are actually made.
/r/MensRights31/03/22 10:32 PM
1

I'm not sure if this sub has an ongoing position on mental health approaches that are effective for men, but some thoughts: It's easy to underestimate how much the overall conversation around mental health has changed in the last decade or two in developed nations, and especially in the last decade for men. It has become less stigmatised than it once was, and this is something to celebrate. However, the most established services, models and approaches do not seem to be well-tailored to men's nee…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/03/22 10:27 PM
44

No. 2 seems like bullshit to me (and Axiom 3 depends on it). Do these people live in a different world to me? Where are these jokes about beating / raping a woman that are being treated as acceptable? I don't hear it in movies or TV. I don't hear it in conversation with anyone. Then again, I never hear KAM either... I've only ever seen it on social media from people I've never met. I wonder if a lot of our problems around feeling judged by how our gender is treated have a lot to do with birds of…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/03/22 04:22 AM
22

the authors blame men for their suicide I don't blame you for being sceptical, but this initiative doesn't seem too bad. In the article: "Our model explains suicidality at the individual psychological level." Their website does have a section about masculinities, but it's not obvious to me that they are blaming men. They even avoid the dreaded TM term. They have a section on how to have a conversation which seems in line with the advice I've seen connected with experts like Dr Zac Seidler.
/r/MensRights31/03/22 12:58 AM
2

Hey late reply I know, but wanted to say something: I get that you want to point out the hypocrisy of this person saying "be your own man" and then also saying "within certain limitations". But, I think you need to cool it a bit. The kind of mindset you're responding to here is not uncommon (it may even be the most common mindset in our time), and you're not going to win anyone over when you fly off the handle like that. A lot of people have never encountered the idea that they are unknowingly i…
/r/MensRights30/03/22 11:25 PM
8

There aren't that many subs focused on men's issues, and it's a constant challenge to decide whether a sub should show a "respectable" face with strong moderation, or allow more freedom of expression of different views. This sub is more on the latter side. The relative freedom of expression in this sub is both a strength and a weakness. At the other extreme, you've got a sub like r/menslib, which is explicitly pro-feminist and has chosen to exercise heavy moderation to prevent entertaining views…
/r/MensRights30/03/22 11:00 PM
2

Do you suppose when girls where not allowed in school, the teachers allowed a lot of outdoor play time and short assignments? LOL re: outdoor play time, I wasn't even thinking that far back. That change is more recent, and correlates with the increasing decline in male engagement and performance in schools. As for assignments vs test-based assessment, it's my understanding that the shift in favour of the former has been occurring since at least the 60s. Teaching to the test requires rote memoriz…
/r/MensRights30/03/22 10:08 PM
2

There's been a number of articles published on this over the last 10 years, but I haven't got any on hand right now. In terms of pedagogy and assessment, an example would be the rise of long-form assignments in place of traditional tests and examinations. These are, of course, statistical generalisations, but it's been argued that girls tended to do better at the former and boys better at the latter. In terms of the flow of the school day, it is argued that the time and freedom given to students…
/r/MensRights30/03/22 09:42 PM
2

Why would I be opposed to teacher's unions?
/r/MensRights30/03/22 09:37 PM
1

I don't see the terms as interchangeable. If you are not a good man, you are still a man.
/r/MensRights30/03/22 09:36 PM
1

Aside from your particular definition of patriarchy differing from most that I've heard (Western only for example), I'm not actually arguing with the concept. The idea of men being drafted, or the idea of women being primary parents, are not directly attributable to what the term patriarchy describes: certain positions of power being occupied by men. It's easy to imagine a matriarchal society wherein boys and men are still drafted to defend that village, and where most girls and women are expect…
/r/MensRights30/03/22 09:34 PM
2

OK, but like I said to the other person who disappeared, do we have any realistic reason to be worried about those insincere, malicious people? Are they significant in numbers? What damage can they really do?
/r/MensRights30/03/22 06:39 AM
1

I have seen people both here, on other sites, op-eds and even straight up politicians openly state that teachers shouldn't be paid more, because it's a job to be considered a 'calling', implying that teachers should just reside in the fact they then need to live like impoverished monks. I agree about the problem of seeing it as a 'calling', but again I want to state that I don't think pay is the main issue, and I don't think it's going to be solved by paying more.
/r/MensRights30/03/22 06:33 AM
1

This seems to have always been a tension within men's advocacy. It's not necessarily the same people being hypocrites but often two separate mindsets. I think it's often coming from a well-meaning place of wanting to recover an authentic, positive masculinity, but then turning a "could" into a "should".
/r/MensRights30/03/22 06:28 AM
7

The term is a recognised identifier but it lacks explanatory power. "Patriarchy" is / was a useful "call to action" term for women's rights movements because it describes who occupied positions of political, miltiary and religious authority. But the source of today's men's issues isn't about who occupied those positions (a small number of men at the top). It's the system of gender roles and expectations that affected all men, and that system could just as well have occurred in a matriarchal syst…
/r/MensRights30/03/22 06:04 AM
1

Did I say that?
/r/MensRights30/03/22 05:04 AM
1

Despite the massive gender imbalance, there certainly doesn't seem to be a lot of interest in incentivising men to go into education, especially compared to, eg. the amount of focus on incentivising women to go into STEM fields. I pointed out that I don't think the issue is primarily about pay. I think the job itself needs to undergo radical, root-and-branch change before it can even be treated like any other professional field. I mentioned earlier that teachers are expected to wear way too many…
/r/MensRights30/03/22 05:02 AM
7

My reason is because it draws attention to only one aspect of our legacy system of gender roles and expectations - that a small subset of men occupied positions of government, military and religious power. This makes it largely unsuitable as a term for addressing the gender expectations affecting all men, which are less about power and more about wellbeing.
/r/MensRights30/03/22 04:48 AM
12

It might be time to retire the term "patriarchy". The assignment of roles and expectations according to gender could just have easily occurred within a system where women dominated positions of authority.
/r/MensRights30/03/22 04:05 AM
0

it wasn't just calling themselves Egyptian because they like it Do you really think trans people just go, "I'm going to call myself this gender because I like it"? Would you undergo gender reassignment surgery and subsequent drugs for years because of a spur-of-the-moment fancy? I am not obligated to consider you a man I guess I'm not really discussing what someone is obligated to do, but what they feel is the right thing to do, especially if they have got to know that person. In my example, the…
/r/MensRights30/03/22 03:54 AM
1

To use your example, imagine someone identifies so much with Egyptian culture that they move there on a one-way ticket and spend the rest of their life there. They learn to speak the local Arabic slang and their original tongue feels like a second language. They make enormous sacrifices to set up a local business in Cairo and even destroy their citizenship papers from their original country. They marry someone in the local community and start a family. Eventually, their Egyptian friends and coll…
/r/MensRights30/03/22 02:55 AM
-6

If you want to be specific in terms of biology, you can point to your chromosomes, but when is it really necessary outside of medical situations or the sporting field? There's a lot of labels with no biological basis that we don't consider "empty categories". Egalitarian. Ukrainian. Christian. Anarchist. Communist. Educated. Working class. Middle class. Soldier. Teacher. Many of these labels describe things that have shifted around in meaning over time.
/r/MensRights30/03/22 02:05 AM
5

Couldn't that just be being a good man, or even a good person?
/r/MensRights30/03/22 01:42 AM
2

I agree with a lot of this, except that it's not all about prestige. As a former teacher, I didn't leave the job because of lack of prestige or pay (I earn less now). The job was just messed up. It had all the pretentions of a modern profession and none of the benefits. No work boundaries. Multi-tasking to an extreme degree. The expectation of being a counsellor, disciplinarian, subject matter expert, trainer and assessor, and then spending hours standing around in the hot sun supervising childr…
/r/MensRights30/03/22 12:53 AM
5

Even when I was a dorky 12-13 year old with braces, bigger glasses, stupid hair and a body going through puberty, I was still a guy. I feel like there's a conflict between what you're saying in your last paragraph and the first sentence of your post. On the one hand, you're saying that you're not a "macho manly man", but on the other hand you are using language like "soyboy", "grow some balls" and "real man" - terms whose purpose is to police the way other men and boys embody their own maleness.…
/r/MensRights30/03/22 12:02 AM
4

Yeah, I understand that I posted an explanation, not a call to action. Explanations matter too, and many of them are woeful especially when framed in terms of "toxic masculinity" or "patriarchy". In the end, a lot of this is a gendered imbalance in the movement from collectivism to individualism. Women have (arguably) made more progress from the bonds of the former to the freedom of the latter, while men have made less.
/r/MensRights29/03/22 10:42 PM
7

The reason for the "real man" phrase or "be a man" is that gender expectations on men have a lot to do with action, initiative, success, performance. In order to enculturate and police men and boys into all those "doings", it was necessary to embed them in a conditional "being". Conditional is the key word. In its most extreme, a boy or man who did not demonstrate sufficient attainment of the various requirements was literally a non-man. In some early communities, this was a life-or-death situat…
/r/MensRights29/03/22 09:25 PM
6

Never knew why you would interpret it any different, since the existence of a modifier implies there are other forms of masculinity. Modifiers aren't just modifiers, especially with strong words like toxic, because of the effect of labelling. Someone else has used the example of toxic chemicals. "Toxic" is purely a modifier, but its use has influenced the assocation of the word "chemicals". People tend to assume all chemicals are bad.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/03/22 04:50 AM
3

The context and public discourse around gender was quite different in the 80s, and the MMM's use of the term predates the current view of multiple masculinities. They were still stuck in the idea that there was a Deep, Authentic masculinity, with TM serving as a kind of ugly counterfeit. Feminists adopted the term, alongside Hegemonic Masculinity, some time later. Its use in popular culture from 2018 to now has been a disaster, largely because most people don't assume the academic understanding …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/03/22 04:05 AM
8

I'd say if you identify as a man, you're a man. I hardly think there's a danger of male-identifying people with two X chromosomes suddenly taking over or dominating everyone else who identifies as male. Not only that, but male advocates have learned a lot from trans men. There's enormous value in their perspectives.
/r/MensRights28/03/22 09:41 PM
13

As loath as I am to entertain a brainfart from some random person in the Internet peanut gallery: There's a reason relationship break-ups are an event that is strongly connected with male suicide. Many men over-invest themselves emotionally in one romantic relationship (sometimes with the full support or pressure of their partner), so they have nothing left if that relationship ends. It is not a virtue to "give everything" to one single other human being.
/r/MensRights28/03/22 09:17 PM
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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