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NobleModernMan Archive

View 2 posts and 35 comments by NobleModernMan on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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1

Yes, exactly. "Mocking". Something I cover in the section of my post about the concept of defiant fulfillment.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/05/26 04:27 AM
1

Honestly, you've made some valid points, but you've completely missed the mark trying to separate cultural issues from economic ones. Economic conditions absolutely impact the susceptibility of a society to cultural influences. For people to change, they have to feel the need for it. My post discussed changes to our economic conditions since the 1980s. The changes to legislation and fiscal policy in that time frame have leaned heavily into deregulation and the dismantling of both corporate tax s…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/05/26 04:20 AM
1

I disagree. I think the question is whether those men are even allowed to join the conversation since the confusion around toxic masculinity has given open license for anything a man does to be labeled "toxic", including defending himself against accusations of being toxic. There is no looking it up because there is no consensus on what constitutes "harmful". It means whatever the accuser wants it to mean. The confusion provides a safe haven for accusations and condemnation without reproach. It …
/r/PurplePillDebate19/05/26 03:51 AM
1

Men, in general, have an energy balance that leans masculine by nature. The issue of what to do with masculinity has come into question recently. If we ignore it, it will find a dark path.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/05/26 03:41 AM
1

I absolutely agree. Social media amplifies the most extreme messages. However, the impact is real, not only of the online messaging but of how the messaging influences people's behavior in real life. It's not that hard to hear the same hyperbolic nonsense in real-life conversations that are echoing what has been said online.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/05/26 03:35 AM
2

I agree. Men should decide but with the guidance of other men who are older and wiser and have proven that they can navigate peacefully in society.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/05/26 03:32 AM
1

Interesting assumption. I've never even toyed with the idea of being effeminate or a leftist. And yes, I'm sure the right wing silo is insulated from terms like "toxic masculinity", although certainly not from examples of it. The point of this post is that most young men absolutely are subjected to a great deal of anti-man rhetoric, and the stats on loneliness, depression and suicide show the impact.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/05/26 03:29 AM
1

I partially agree with you. But I'd also say that there is a large swath of our population that is moderate enough to support a healthy idea of what masculinity should look like.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/05/26 03:20 AM
1

Yes, I also see positive messaging out there, some of which is definitely gaining some traction. But the majority of the noise out there isn't nearly as positive and the resulting social issues being seen surrounding men, especially young men, make that obvious. I'm starting a conversation here about the nature of and the conversation surrounding the problem, not suggesting that no one is presenting a solution. It will take many voices to counter the negativity.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/26 05:36 AM
3

Thank you so much for sharing all of that. Hitting the nail that inspired me to write this post right on the head. Strength, the ability to impart some sort of force and bring about change, but for the common good, is exactly what I would call positive masculinity as well.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/26 05:27 AM
2

That's a really good point that you made about women also getting confusing messaging. I think a lot of young men would take comfort in understanding that. And I agree, back when you were growing up and first hearing about toxic masculinity, it was more about men committing self-harm. In more recent years, the conversation around it has shifted. I invite you to search for the subreddit specifically dedicated to the discussion of toxic masculinity and I think you will see what I mean.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/26 05:22 AM
3

That's fantastic that you found such positive role models in your adolescence after such a challenging start. The entire point of my post is that the definition of masculinity should not be left to women. It should be taught to young men by the types of positive role models like the ones that you had. They need to see behavior that they can emulate.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/26 05:16 AM
3

Yes, well said. I would add though that everyone cares about being perceived correctly and validated by others. It's a question of which others and exactly what the standards of validation are. The point of my post is that often the standards that are communicated (apparently to both men and women) are inconsistent, conflicting and increasingly unreasonable.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/26 05:12 AM
5

Agreed. I'm personally not familiar with any society in which young people do not form their identities and sense of place within the community without established frameworks that are taught by their elders.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/26 05:07 AM
3

I would invite you to explore the subreddit that is dedicated specifically to the topic of toxic masculinity. The term and the topic are still alive and well. Yes, I agree that religion can serve as a model for conduct, but there can be others for the non-religious. I explore one in other works I've written, but didn't include it here since it is beyond the scope of this subreddit. Sadly, even a simple concept like "treat everyone with kindness" gets muddied in the mix of messaging that young me…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/26 05:03 AM
2

I'm not sure what part of my post suggested that it is up to women to define what a man should be, but I assure you that's far from its intent. In terms of what is so hard to grasp about being a "decent person", that is exactly the point that I am asserting. The messages that men, especially young men, are receiving about exactly what they should be are conflicting and largely negative. They are told they are either not living up to some unreasonable standard, or that their very nature is offens…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/26 04:54 AM
–

OK I am not going to respond to everything you've said because for the most part, you've shifted the context of the conversation to prove a point about which I was not even commenting. But I will address a couple: Why are Asian boys surpassing boys of other races and cultures? They are just as male as other boys the difference is culture, expectations, and discipline from their parents. The answer goes beyond discipline. Their performance comes from a buy-in to a risk-reward system that involves…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/26 08:35 PM
1

This entire comment thread has been about primary and secondary education. These do not require "investment" from parents. I do agree that there was (even in my day) less of an emphasis on academic achievement for girls. So that is definitely part of the equation. And while nonconformity itself can be curbed or even eliminated by culture, it doesn't change the fact that boys generally have a higher natural inclination toward nonconformity. As I said before, discipline is definitely PART of the i…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/26 09:14 PM
1

Thank you for clarifying, but I still completely disagree. Girls may have been punished for different things, but I never saw them punished more harshly. In my "back in the day" upbringing, boys were definitely more likely to receive corporal punishment (which inflicts physical pain on top of emotional pain). Sure, boys were expected to get dirty, but they were also expected NOT to do things like cry or show fear. These would lead to scolding and possibly even corporal punishment ("I'll give you…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/26 10:14 PM
1

Curious what the metrics (and the source of the metrics) are that lead you to that conclusion. I neither completely disagree nor completely agree with you, so I thought I would ask.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/26 09:48 PM
5

As someone who went to school "back in the day", I can assure you that everything you said is historically inaccurate, including accommodation for learning disabilities. Boys did generally perform better back then. Why? Because boys possess more inherent ability? Of course not. That's ridiculous. There just wasn't quite as much emphasis overall on academic achievement for girls. There was generally a bit more of an emphasis on aspiring to be a wife and mother.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/26 09:42 PM
5

Can you give an example of a scenario in which a girl would be more harshly punished than a boy for the same infraction? When I went to school way back in the age of strict discipline, I NEVER saw this happen. Girls were actually treated more gently because it was assumed (correctly or incorrectly) that they were more sensitive.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/26 09:22 PM
2

If academic standards were lax, then why were reading and math scores higher?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/26 09:15 PM
0

In what way was there less access to education for girls? Especially in primary and secondary education? I'm from the generation of strict enforcement (and yes, corporal punishment) and I can assure you there was no difference in access for girls. Although I don't believe in corporal punishment, I do agree that a lack of discipline/accountability is PART of the problem. The other part that is being ignored in this discussion is what boys are now being influenced to aspire to. Boys definitely hav…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/26 09:14 PM
1

Thanks so much for responding. You brought up another good point about the possible difference in stated vs. revealed desires. I hate to be cynical, but my personal experience is that the divide between those two for a lot of women is quite wide, especially when it comes to wealth and status. A look into online dating patterns does back that up but I would hesitate to assume that such patterns consistently and fully translate into real-life behavior.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/26 08:34 PM
-1

No. I'm sorry. I've agreed with A LOT of what you've said. But, I can't imagine how tall a woman would have to be in order to be attractive to most men at the weight of an NFL linebacker. I'm with you on the proportion thing. It's way more important than a lot of self-conscious women realize. But that probably drops off completely much closer to the 180 lb threshold.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/26 12:39 AM
0

Answer to first question: common courtesy. Politely declining would qualify. Expressing gratitude for the approach would be outstanding. Answer to second question: they did.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/26 12:11 AM
1

I don't really agree with him but he does make a point. I don't really see the "women suck" variety. I see the "women are wrong when they say men suck" variety all the time. Case in point: this very post.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/26 12:01 AM
1

I think it would be interesting to present, in a way backed by data, what exactly "the bar" is for each gender. And then I would love to know how how each bar has changed (especially since the proliferation of social media) and how each gender is broadly faring compared to both the before and after level of each bar. Any insights? You did a great job with data in your post.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/26 11:54 PM
1

"It’s still also extremely important for men to be willing to protect" Absolutely no issue with this either. But, I have noticed lately that the concept of "feeling unsafe" has been broadened to the point of absurdity. Disagreement, criticism, even rudeness... these are not things that a grown adult needs protection from. Women have minds and voices just as men do. They can speak for themselves. To assume otherwise is to infantilize women and consider them too fragile for adult discourse. If a w…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/26 11:22 PM
0

That would definitely be an assumption, especially since you don't reference the specific comment. Easily cleared up by using a phrase like "that commenter" or "whoever wrote that". I was taught a long time ago that "what is clear to you is clear to you". Media literacy applies to the writers as well as the readers.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 05:21 PM
2

Me thinks thou protest too much. And how do you know so much about the men who use the phrase "choose better"? I'm older, have quite a bit of relationship experience and am generally considered attractive by women. And I LOVE the phrase "choose better"! For women, for men and for myself.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 01:11 AM
1

I don't know who "they" are. But, all someone like myself wants is for people to learn from their mistakes and not generalize their experience across an entire gender. Helpful hint: when you use words like "they" and "them", there's a good chance you are over-generalizing. Anyway, glad you learned your lesson at 17. Hopefully you're in a better situation now.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 01:02 AM
1

I think you've completely misunderstood the author's point. The phrase "choose better", from a man's perspective, means "don't have negative experiences with men whom other men could have told you were problematic and then generalize their toxicity across the male population at large". Like our parents used to say, "when you hurt yourself doing something I told you not to do, don't come crying to me".
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 12:54 AM
1

I don't think the author actually said he doesn't encounter this phenomenon IRL. I can only speak for myself. The loudest and most outrageous, extreme voices are definitely online. I agree with you. But I also hear some pretty loud echoes in real life, and not just with women I have any romantic connection with. The loud voices have an impact, especially those who seek to excuse a lack of accountability. I only date women, but I would imagine it is at least similar with men.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 12:43 AM
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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