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OirishM Archive

View 1 posts and 297 comments by OirishM on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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Upvotes Title Category Author Subreddit Date (UTC)
12

QuestionOirishM/r/MensRights25/05/14 04:19 PM
Upvotes Comment on Subreddit Date (UTC)
1

Given that it's generally harder for a lot of guys to get hookups, they'll settle. This doesn't resolve the desire to explore or experience other people. It's taken me a long time to not do this, but then you have to face being alone more.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/04/25 07:59 PM
15

Why, when it comes to solving the issues women face, we rightly ask ‘what can we do to change society?’ Yet when it comes to men, we just ask ‘what can men do to change themselves?’ Precisely. This is actually not that inconsistent with how a lot of feminists describe patriarchy (and in related MRA concepts like women's hypoagency). Men are seen as having agency, women are not. This is reflected in our differing reaction to men's issues compared to women's. Men's issues aren't analysed in terms …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/11/21 01:35 AM
31

I find it kinda weird that the article complains that men have 'unearned' value Agreed. This is an extremely curious thing to assert when we haven't as a society deconstructed women's standards of male attractiveness. Some value judgements - shocker - might be wrong.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/11/21 12:41 AM
19

FML I'm just like....ARGH If people actually listened to male dating complaints, they might realise what entitled prats they sound like now when they complain about the same kind of things. And oh what a surprise, now that it's affecting them men are expected to fall over and support this 'problem'.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/11/21 12:29 AM
4

Happens quite often, yeah. As always, it baffles me why many of them think they can do this sort of thing to men and it's not a problem, while they decry the same thing being done by men to women. They give zero shits when it happens to men, then act all high and mighty and outraged when men don't show care back in similar situations. Not everyone can mirror what they haven't been shown. It's almost like they don't believe women are equal to men, even though they are.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/11/21 12:24 AM
19

You don't, frankly, if people don't want to hear it. Mind you, if they want an answer as to why more men are not engaging with supporting them on their issues, that might be time to bring it up. I only engage with their issues and advocacy to a limited extent precisely because of the lack of reciprocity. They keep saying they need men to help out with this stuff, and I think such support should be strategically withheld. The attitude you describe is also incoherent AF when you consider broader a…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/11/21 12:20 AM
37

This is hilarious seeing as we've basically had Golden Vagina Syndrome across most of society historically. Turnabout sucks, doesn't it? This article probably breaks some kind of record for how little self-awareness one can cram into a thousand words.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/11/21 11:57 PM
5

Basically this. Whatever you want to call the system of conventional gender norms - call it patriarchy, call it whatever you prefer - it's something everyone is born into and lives under. Until people unthink their way out of those norms, they'll be contributing to that system - men and women alike. In that sense, both genders share in complicity for the system. The idea that 'men are the patriarchy' or 'men cause other issues for men' is absolute nonsense in its exclusivity. Most men were born …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/06/21 09:12 PM
3

Good find. Sorry to hear everyone's stories in the comments
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/06/21 09:05 PM
4

One would hope that at least some people who hold those views would know better than to apply what is by definition a comment on a demographic (toxic masculinity in this case) to an individual. Sadly, doesn't sound like that always happens in practice. But I'm glad there are at least some who know how to apply their concepts a bit more sensibly and don't try and force them on individuals where they don't fit.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/06/21 09:04 PM
3

Trump never would have been elected if it hadn't been for identity politics and The Woke. No, 'the left were mean to me so I just had to support the rightwing authoritarian' is still a bad take.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/06/21 03:21 PM
1

In the case of transwomen her take was less that they're a threat, more than they're misguided women who've been led astray.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/06/21 03:19 PM
5

.. and this obfuscates the even more obvious, and far older loophole that female perverts already have that access. This. Literally anyone can walk into a bathroom and commit a crime, cis or trans, man or woman. Honestly, rather than joining in with the bathroom panic, we could do something more effective like note that female predators exist, or as the OP notes, challenge the generic disproportionate fear a lot of women have for anything they see as male-coded.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/06/21 03:17 PM
0

Probably not the case if we actually took the time to explore it, with things like more academic terminology and concepts. No-one learns language from first principles from a dictionary, that’s not how they work. People learn language from other people, more basic language is formalised and has more consistent meaning, but for more exploratory/investigative language (like on the frontiers of a sociological topic like current dating practices, say), people make terms up to describe something, and…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/05/21 01:25 PM
1

Words are composed by people first, and dictionaries report the most commonplace usage. When you’re talking about sociological terms / concepts, the variance in meaning of a term can be even higher. A lot of sociology papers will spend paragraphs defining terms of front and comparing them to how other examples of the literature use the terms and how their definitions can vary.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/05/21 01:16 PM
1

How much of this is two way though? With respect, most incels I’ve seen commented or interacted with personally online push back really hard on most advice given to them, and many are convinced there’s no hope for them. I can see why someone who had success and wanted to impart might given up trying following that kind of pushback. Beyond that, there is arguably a general problem of men leaving support groups once their personal situation has improved - retaining that knowledge in the group seem…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/05/21 01:09 PM
1

No problem - appreciate that :)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/05/21 01:04 PM
1

Alright, I take your point. For what it’s worth, I do appreciate the extra detail you’ve added to the thread regarding your personal experiences, I found them interesting and useful to read. And I appreciate my situation wasn’t as extreme as someone who’s had or is going through a period of being involuntarily celibate - but part of the reason I said elsewhere that I think there’s a bit of a spectrum that you can end up on with inceldom at one pole and related mindsets like NiceGuyness being a l…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/05/21 01:04 PM
0

Dictionaries are at best descriptive, not prescriptive. This is an overly simplistic view of how language works in practice.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/05/21 10:33 AM
2

Curious that you’re replying to me with this, and not the person who initially recommended dancing - why is why I responded to it pointing it out as being somewhat cliched advice. Again, not claiming this is going to be universally beneficial for all guys.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/05/21 10:32 AM
1

Appreciate you sharing this. Nonetheless, while some of these things may not be avoidable, you can choose what content to expose yourself to online. I did also specifically frame things in terms of what helped me, and I wasn’t universalising it.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/05/21 10:30 AM
1

Again, why do you need to know what these people think, if they’re so hateful and wrong anyway (which they are)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/05/21 10:27 AM
0

If you can't post a counter argument here, just say so mate
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/05/21 08:55 AM
-1

Feel entirely free to post an actual counter to it, and we can have a real discussion. Reducing my post to two words and just going nuh-uh isn't that, so until you do post an actual counter, have a good day
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/05/21 08:46 AM
2

I get how they're Toronto specific, just not sure how these aren't applicable to most other cities - but appreciate the info anyway, thanks.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/05/21 08:41 AM
-1

If you ignore the entirety of the rest of the post I made, sure.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/05/21 08:40 AM
1

I've commented on what I think about the biological side of things elsewhere in the thread.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/05/21 08:22 AM
1

Ok, and he'd already posted sample content from the sub in his previous post? I asked what he gains from being informed about this sub given that's the sort of content they post.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/05/21 06:44 AM
1

I'm not asking him to justify them, I'm asking him to explain them. He says he is being 'informed', I am asking him about what? Calm down, yeah?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/05/21 06:38 AM
1

I don't think the problem is trying to do away with roles, so much as we focused more on doing a half-arsed incomplete job. We only focused on how women were being harmed by men or systemic problems generally, not on how men are harmed by women, women are harmed by other women, and how men have systemic problems as well. I'm personally disinclined to write the attempt off as a failure when it's obvious we didn't make a full attempt at dismantling enough of it in the first place.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/05/21 05:17 AM
1

I get what you're saying. I just don't really think that because something is natural then we must be in thrall to it forever, so biological arguments on gender are interesting for qualitatively describing the problem in full, but too often I see people using them as proof that things can't or even shouldn't change, which just seems a bit pointless, and at odds with our history as a species. We're humanity. We've been giving two fingers to "nature" or what naturally occurs since we started makin…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/05/21 05:14 AM
2

Kind of. From what I can gather the concept of patriarchy originated in radical feminism, not liberal feminism. That doesn't mean the concept hasn't drifted into liberal feminism. I can't say I would claim that libfem rejects patriarchy theory. The bigger difference between radfem and libfem that I can see is the notion of 'choice feminism', which radfems tend to disdain. Add into this the usual problem with any sociological issue where the same word can have multiple different meanings dependin…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/05/21 05:10 AM
3

True, I can see why this argument doesn't entirely land with guys who find it hard to get laid - they want genuine connection, and a financial transaction being involved muddies it. At the same time, a few people here have shared sexual inexperience as a factor that dooms any connection they have to failure. So while a sex worker might not provide emotional connection, they could form a safe space to improve the lack-of-technique aspect of their overall problem. I'm speaking theoretically here -…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/05/21 05:08 AM
1

Why do you need to be informed about this, though? They're obviously hateful people. What is gained by spending time there? I don't particularly care for a lot of feminists, certainly not the attitudes on the main feminist subs here. So I don't go there. It means I'm not contaminating my mind with their shitty attitudes, which can still happen even while you disagree with them ideologically.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/05/21 05:05 AM
1

"Go to dance class" is a bit cliched advice for this stuff, but I do still recommend it and second what you're saying here. Formal dance is better than trying to pick someone up in a club because dances are time-limited, and the interaction is more structured. It's a hell of a lot easier to pull off than trying to impress someone in a club in an unstructured way. Because the dances are time-limited, if you ask to dance with someone and you don't manage to impress them (or heck, maybe they won't …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/05/21 05:01 AM
1

And it’s easy to say to just worry about other things but hear me out: most of the time if you haven’t experienced by a certain age it’s less and less likely you will.. most social cues, interactions with the opposite sex are learned during high school and college years.. after that for most people it’s just go to work, sleep, repeat.. Disagree. I picked up a lot of stuff in my 30s that I just wasn't clocking into before, and arguably a change in my work environment was what contributed to that.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/05/21 04:57 AM
2

I don’t believe in terms “carrying baggage”. That entire style of thinking is unhelpful. One can quite easily acknowledge that terms are used in different ways, or have other conceptual baggage typically or frequently associated with them, without it constituting an attempt at generalisation. It is a pretty standard approach for analysing ideas, no need to shoot ourselves in the feet by discarding it. (apart from anything else, the notion of terms carrying baggage definitely seems to be a thing …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/05/21 04:55 AM
3

Yes you literally can. Incel is not a worldview. It’s guys who are not having sex. It can instantly be flipped off if they have sex. It’s extremely common for a person to be like “I was incel, then I had sex, so now I’m not”. I would disagree with this to a point. Yes, an incel who manages to get laid is no longer technically an incel. I would still argue the general dialogue on dating woes for men coming from manosphere-type groups is still very cynical and can engender hopelessness in men who …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/05/21 04:53 AM
1

one of the most difficult cities to date in the entire world I've never heard this claim before - why is this the case?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/05/21 04:46 AM
1

If someone of that worldview is actively spending time browsing or posting in incel groups and it's not actually helping them (and I've honestly yet to see any cases of this actually helping them, though I'm sure a few outliers exist), the first step is to encourage them to skip spending time there. Telling yourself you have no hope and things can't change pretty much guarantees that outcome as a self-fulfilling prophecy. What also helped me (I've had sexual relationships, so have never consider…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/05/21 04:44 AM
1

(blind post, I don't click GDrive links as a general rule) As a general comment, analysis of ways in which poverty might affect women specifically shouldn't automatically be a problem - we still live in a society with gender roles and expectations, so poverty may well affect different demographics differently. My concern is more that there might be a risk of overcorrection, but I don't totally feel that we've yet hit that point.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/05/21 04:39 AM
1

Interesting, I hadn't heard of this. Thanks for posting
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/05/21 04:37 AM
6

If someone is going to ignore decent advice on the excuse of ‘that’s mansplaining’ then just let them continue to fuck up. Someone who deploys mansplaining in that way is usually the sort of mind that will need quite a few things explained to them over the course of their lives (some of the people explaining things to them might even be men, gasp!) As for the sexism doesn’t happen to men canard, it’s usually rationalised as claiming that systemic issues against men don’t exist - which is nonsens…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/05/21 04:30 PM
6

I've also thought in the past that it's weird how people (correctly) are outraged over the idea of anyone but the pregnant woman deciding to have an abortion is coercing her into a decision that is her choice by rights to have, i.e. give up the pregnancy. No-one ever seems to think that mandating child support from the father is 'making' the woman keep the baby (which would still be coercing a decision that's her choice to make), even though the logic is of the same form.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/05/21 05:50 AM
2

If there's that many, surely you can cite one specifically about Kaduna
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/05/21 05:44 AM
1

I guess. IIRC though they're a pretty tiny minority within feminism which is already a minority opinion/label.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/05/21 05:44 AM
3

Using internalized misogyny is a convenient way to put the burden on men for women’s participation in toxic behaviors even when they benefit. See also: 'benevolent sexism', as opposed to 'female privilege'. Stuff happening to women has to be framed as things done to women, and this rhetoric allows for a cheeky 'not our fault' cop-out.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/05/21 07:39 AM
1

Everything is masculinity's fault Clearly this would be silly to say, but what you've posted here doesn't show how 'our western feminist influence' has contributed to the situation in Kaduna.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/05/21 07:37 AM
2

How many times have you heard your friends say that they left a man "because he was a boy and had no ambitions"? And how many times have you heard a man say this about a woman? Ha, yeah, that one bugs me. It's a lot easier to be ambitionless and get dates as a woman. It seems related to the sex objects vs success objects gender dichotomy - a guy can't be not doing something with his life in order to be considered worthy. Probably related too is the commentary that notes that women have a lot of …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/05/21 07:31 AM
1

I don't know if men will actively push back on misandry, but I suspect men do disengage from such people - consciously or subconsciously. Some of it for me is picking battles. A lot of them one can't win due to the rhetorical and ideological biases of the people making those statements and those backing them up. I have literally zero way of proving this, so take with massive quantities of salt, but I'm pretty sure this sort of disengagement is why more men aren't feminists, for example. If I see…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/05/21 07:26 AM
12

A lot of this is the usual hyperagency attributed to men. I'm sure plenty of men aren't great at opening up, and there may well be gendered social reasons for this. However, the attitudes of men in need are only part of the issue. The other part is that people need to be willing to listen to men who open up, and that's something that gets talked about far less.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/05/21 07:20 AM
1

Even if you are this stud who has had sex with 100 women, if you haven't had sex in the last few months (or longer), all of the sudden you are a loser. Yeah, I feel you on this. The reason why I resolved to stop worrying about body count is when I got into a big discussion online with this guy who was in full Nice Guy mode, twice my age, and was ultimately lamenting that he hadn't had enough experience with women. And he'd slept with over three times the women I had. That's when I realised there…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/04/21 11:28 AM
2

This could also be a case of what the OP is calling for - greater acceptance of male virginity, so more people feel more comfortable acknowledging it.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/04/21 11:22 AM
1

> It’s the 80/20 rule, IRL Is it? It's closer to the 90:70 rule if one has the actual stats on hand. https://www.joe.ie/life-style/amount-men-30-not-sex-nearly-tripled-past-decade-663846
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/04/21 11:21 AM
1

stay mad and keep downvoting, instead of refuting :D
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/04/21 04:46 AM
7

I'd say you're likely right there. I got circumcised because of phimosis and UTIs, before I reached the age of 10. Seems....a little bit overkill, perhaps O_o On a final note, even if it's not really the point of the whole post, I feel like there's a lot of shaming towards male fantasies. Online it feels like if you're a kinky girl that's a plus for men, but if you're a kinky guy then you're a disgusting perv. Can't say I've had this problem, however. Having said that, I put my interest in kink …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/04/21 03:43 AM
4

Feminists are in the main very good at redirecting conversations to centre their own experiences, and this dynamic is also why nonwhite or LGBT feminists regularly get shat on by their own movement by women in the majority or with greater clout/wealth.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/04/21 03:53 PM
6

Isn’t it ironic feminists are hijacking a post about a male victim of domestic violence to make it about themselves again? This is the thing they swear blind never happens when men are talking about being victims of women, but it literally always does
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/04/21 03:52 PM
6

People often bring up male victims in response to women talking about women's DV because the women talking about those incidents don't limit themselves to talking about what women go through. They'll invariably talk about how men are the ones who do this, and never mention that abuse is committed by all groups. Or they'll talk about how men don't know what it's like to suffer this - when they do. It isn't derailing to correct someone. If they don't want men commenting on this stuff, they should …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/04/21 03:51 PM
-1

'Little to no studies on men or men's issues' - just not true. It might not be popularised or discussed to the same degree, but this is true of like 90pc of most social science papers. It is trivial to find this content with some simple searching. Nor is this one incident with a mere 20 papers involved 'pretty clear proof' of bias. Presentation and framing of this incident matters, and I wouldn't really call it a very scientific experiment, ironically. 4 out of 20 papers accepted is four too man…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/04/21 03:46 PM
1

Yeah, not how funding works Signed, a social scientist
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/04/21 01:24 AM
3

I think it could conceivably happen, but I suspect it's rare. I'm reminded of Scott Aaronson's infamous Comment #171, where he claimed that the messages he internalised from feminism made him consider getting chemically castrated.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/04/21 06:24 PM
2

Seriously? You were at least effortposting and putting original arguments down.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/04/21 06:38 PM
2

Fair.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/04/21 03:38 PM
1

If they didn't want men in positions of power, they simply could've voted them out of office but they didn't. Why? Bit of an oversimplification. Depends what position is involved. Women may have had votes, but may not have had influence in existing political parties - sure, starting their own may have been an option, but it's hard to make inroads in two-party systems. The notion of gender balance on political candidate shortlists for MPs is still a pretty hot issue in the UK Labour party, for ex…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/04/21 02:40 PM
9

I feel like 'Karen' has rebalanced things against 'mansplaining' somewhat. We did warn them that gendering behaviour that all genders commit wasn't a hot idea....
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/04/21 02:34 PM
2

in genetal phrasing
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/04/21 02:33 PM
10

long-dead incel movement news to me "Virgin"- A term which directly attacks the MRA in the debate by putting their masculinity into question and playing into the notion that a man must have sex with a woman to be consider a "true man". That one in particular also slays me. Feminists: We need to overturn toxic masculinity because men feel entitled to women and their sense of invalidation by not having sex leads some to actually hurt women. 5 minutes later, after hearing an opinion they don't like…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/04/21 02:32 PM
3

Haha, I missed the first migration and then was about to join yesterday and saw the chaos. What the F happened lol
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/04/21 02:19 PM
6

Neatly handled by the classic: https://siryouarebeingmocked.tumblr.com/post/37261369040/a-nice-rebloggable-rebuttal-you-can-save-and-use Society hates people stepping outside of the conventional gender roles. That doesn't mean all objections are driven solely by misogyny. It could very easily be respun to claim that everything is misandry. "It just seems really self-centered to try and twist it to be about women when their "evidence" is just really lacking." Yeah, the constant centring of women …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/04/21 02:15 PM
1

Need evidence to make that claim (again), not least given people have presented far more information as to justify why this isn't censorship.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/04/21 02:03 PM
1

ayup. doing a little better on this thread at least.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/04/21 08:39 PM
2

I don't disagree with you totally either, I'm just fairly sus of ideas that seem to just result in men having to be more emotionally continent, again. Though as I said in another reply, marinading in mutual anger isn't exactly good for the people involved themselves, never mind who they are directing it at.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/04/21 06:29 PM
2

I would say emotional literacy would give men the knowledge of when and where their emotional expressions are likely to be received positively. Emotional literacy being used to reinforce stoicism isn't a great sell here tbh. When it comes to Red Pill Rage, should women, trans people be the ones that have to listen to men's rage when many have suffered violence at the hands of men? Yes, I do know that it's not always the same men or all men. Still, when you've been victimised by people from a spe…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/04/21 05:44 PM
6

I mean you can literally find pro-male content on google if you slightly change the operator used in the experiment, so how is this content being 'hidden'
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/04/21 04:38 PM
3

I appreciate that a lot of people just treat google in the sense of 'I put the words in and only check the first page of results', but Google can be used in a variety of different ways besides that. Equally, the first set of ten results with just a few terms thrown in - that's not always going to give you the sort of material you're looking for, on a whole swathe of different topics. One can argue that maybe those top ten results say something about the current set of algorithms, but that doesn'…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/04/21 04:27 PM
5

love being downvoted for not instantly claiming this is a conspiracy
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/04/21 04:07 PM
5

Then how could I find pro male content by changing the operator minimally
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/04/21 04:03 PM
12

Ehhh, I'd be careful on leaning too heavily on this. Firstly, I'm not sure whether they are doing quote-searches or just throwing those four terms into Google in that order. Quote-searching all four terms just returns...basically this experiment. Splitting up 'Washington State' and 'men's equality' into individual quotesearch operators does actually seem to give some relevant results. It's not clear to me if there is just more content on 'equality' and 'washington state' that relates to women, a…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/04/21 03:51 PM
4

And thanks that you personally are challenging this stuff. But my comment is about the collective attitudes of a particular movement to this stuff, and the fact is they have been lacking in some places. Having an influential feminist like Koss pushing rape myths is one. Having DV reps and MPs in my own country calling men entitled for telling their own stories of abuse and wanting something done about it on a system level is another. It can't be denied that feminism has moved the needle on issue…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/04/21 03:33 PM
4

What I mean is, I give up because maybe in person we could find common ground but you guys are really interested in “gotcha!” and I see this as fruitless. Which could be said of half your comments that are responding to arguments that weren't even made in the first place. As for me, I don't tend to write a screen-length of text (as I did in my other comment to you detailing my experiences) when I'm just trying to 'gotcha' someone, but you haven't said anything about that comment, have you? The f…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/04/21 03:14 PM
3

Goodness me, that was your best? No, I am talking about abuse of men by women. You know, the same manner of issues women are complaining about. We also do not wish to be killed or abused, and for society to take this seriously. Where do women apply collective responsibility to themselves for abusive women the way they constantly do to men for abusive men? This simply does not happen to the same extent, and plenty of women are in denial that women can even be abusive to men, or rape men. (Almost …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/04/21 02:59 PM
1

Not entirely wrong, but not entirely right either. It is not enough IME to say men need to open up more. The corollary is people need to be willing to listen - really listen - to what men say, even if it's not PC, even if it's not something they want to hear - and it almost certainly won't be. Men being vulnerable shocks a lot of people, because on some level so many of them are emotionally dependent on men being emotionally stoic. That needs to be broken down as well, but that also requires sel…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/04/21 02:54 PM
3

Love the last point, and thanks for sharing your journey, think there's some overlap with mine too. I've been wondering recently how much of a driving factor in all of this is (possibly millennial aged and younger) men being raised in nominally progressive households. I was told that feminism/women's equality was a de facto Good Thing that I should support by my mother, for example. However, in practice she wasn't a gynocentrist (a lot of second-wave era women who have had sons have seemed in my…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/04/21 02:51 PM
1

But one thing I have heard is that these communities are more prone to reactionaryism when there is a lot of churn of participants, because most of the guys who have passed through the cathartic/anger stage don't stick around to provide balance and calmness to the community. The group also has to be willing to listen to those people. Too much of a critical mass of unfocused anger permitted in the group, and they just won't do that.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/04/21 02:46 PM
2

I renounce using men's issues as justification for violence against women and rape, death threats, and it is part of why I abandoned the A Voice For Men network which legitimised unabashed anger and harassment of feminists in lieu of Warren Farrell's mild-mannered diplomacy AVfM came to mind too while reading this. AVfM approach seemed to be opted for out of a sense of "being nice didn't get us anywhere", but I'd question whether their more aggressive approach actually helped men's activism succ…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/04/21 02:45 PM
8

You'd think the fact that the actual target audience of jargon like 'toxic masculinity' make it harder to access the discussion would register with people - assuming discussion is what they actually want, of course.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/04/21 02:19 PM
7

Not mentioned - if the partner doesn't turn their act around sharpish, walk. Guys put up with too much bad behaviour in their relationships out of desperation.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/04/21 02:18 PM
3

We also have been talking about how women perpetuate this system too, in a huge way. Feminists absolutely do not talk to women about sorting out women abusers the way they speak to men about sorting out male abusers. There isn't anything like the collective guilt placed on an entire gender when it comes to how they talk about women.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/04/21 02:07 PM
3

I don't expect "women to put similar shelters together for men." I do expect those people who should know better to stop lying about the problem and getting in the way of solving the problem. Beyond that, there is also an expectation now - as we're not in the 1960s anymore - that DV shelters should be provided/funded by the government. Social attitudes towards DV, including who 'counts' as a victim of DV, will have an impact on that. Christmas of 2018, when I didn't feel safe in my own home and …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/04/21 01:58 PM
2

I've mentioned this elsewhere. Feminists have (correctly) pointed out that men are under huge pressures to not admit weakness, etc. They then 180 on the implications of this and act like men not talking about a problem means well, they just aren't suffering from that problem! And I have to wonder what volume of piss they're taking here. This is so screamingly obvious that men might not as a result of their social conditioning want to talk about their assaults, yet so many of them 'happen' to mis…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/04/21 01:56 PM
3

Misandry and TERF are essentially two sides of the same coin. Precisely this. There is scope for working with trans people on this - IMO I don't think this sort of TERFery is going to go away without society having a discussion on how people treat men. They treat transwomen this way because they think they are men, and they treat them that way because that's how they treat cis men. There isn't a good or safe way of allowing that sort of hatred to persist, in a controllable way.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/04/21 01:52 PM
3

UK stats sometimes echo legal definition of rape, which can only be committed by penetration by a penis (and not just that penetration has to be involved, it's that the perpetrator is the one with the penis). Then you get headlines like this as a result, without questioning the definitions used by the law, or by extension, by ONS: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/18/ons-survey-finds-one-in-14-women-have-been-victim-of Regarding CDC / NCVS stats, I think where possible go for some kin…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/04/21 01:51 PM
2

When you said "People who insist on dividing up men into Alpha and Beta are invariably protesting a bit too much". It's pretty clear you were referring to OP and/or people like OP. I wasn't, actually. I was referring to anyone who used the terms.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/04/21 12:32 AM
3

To conclude, Alpha and Beta can be useful terms in order to understand the female sexual reality. Disagree really. OP is claiming that this is how women divide men up
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/04/21 12:05 AM
2

Here to second Models by Manson. It's what pulled me out of my pill-scented funk, while acknowledging the handful of things the manosphere/pill communities get right about dating issues for men without cascading people into misogyny or hopelessness. None of this means that it's easy to shake off the notion that you aren't desirable. I might write a bigger piece responding to the medium piece in the OP, but 'be yourself' is good advice poorly formulated. 'Have a strong sense of validation in your…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/04/21 11:51 PM
6

Almost as if men and women are different and equality is bs. I can sense there's frustration in your comment, but even if there is such a thing as alpha-beta guys or women dividing men into alpha-beta, it's not the only frustrating dichotomy in dating. You're right, the left does suck about talking about these things, but it doesn't mean the alternatives have merit either. Free love is a bit of an oversimplication, but encouraging everyone to be more honest about their desires and open to explor…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/04/21 11:13 PM
1

This is usually indicative of the claim having nothing to it. If you don't want to back it up, ok, but then no need for anyone to take those claims seriously.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/04/21 09:45 PM
7

I think this is true. Additionally though, I think there is an element of men wanting to be desired for who they are. Transactionalism makes that murky - even if a sex worker is attracted to a particular client, it is hard to disentangle that from the fact that their relationship is primarily transactional. Do they like you, or the money?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/04/21 09:41 PM
0

What corporatists, though? There are no specifics here. The OP refers to Gates foundation which just makes this sound like a 5G conspiracy.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/04/21 09:36 PM
12

People who insist on dividing up men into Alpha and Beta are invariably protesting a bit too much, I find. In practice life is more complicated than simplistic binaries, and just because nature might be one way, does not mean humanity has to follow in thrall to it. The terms alpha and beta come from a now-questionable study on wolves, iirc, so not sure where the notion that they are female notions comes to mind. There is something to be said for being self-assured and not trying to negotiate att…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/04/21 09:27 PM
5

The 'protecting yourself' section is gold. It's basically what I did when trying to get myself out of the abusive situation I was in. Would recommend. Even if you're not in that sort of situation, it's good practice to have that sort of game plan in mind in case it arises.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/04/21 09:24 PM
2

It isn't inherently wrong to talk about how a subject affects a given group, in a particular instance. The problem is the broader context, if that broader context never gives the full picture, or isn't interested in discussing it.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/04/21 06:13 PM
2

https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/m852gt/xpost_from_rscience_new_scientific_study_links/ It was an r science post that then got taken down, I'll see if I can find a cite for the original paper. Suffice it to say the paper wasn't talking about men generally, genocide, or genociding men generally
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/03/21 07:35 PM
2

Yes, one was posted recently here and the claims in thread immediately went to 'men will be genocided'.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/03/21 07:20 PM
4

not done against them because of their identity I liked your take overall. I did want to comment on this part, though. I personally think the 'oh but this happens because they are women though' trope doesn't necessarily mean anything. It just seems to be used to create an arbitrary distinction of importance between different issues that otherwise might even share some commonalities. There are plenty of ways something can be gendered. Just because some men aren't going around going HAHAH I DO THI…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/03/21 11:48 AM
0

O yes. Millions of men in the west are celibate not of their own choice. Is their pessimistic view the result or the cause of their situation? If the last is the case, how did that pessimism come into being at all? Once people start swallowing pills of certain colours, that is their choice. And it's the wrong one. And saying someone has bad manners is not the same as whining. No, whining about a couple of downvotes is whining. Once more about 'reading situations, which seems to be your holy grai…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/03/21 11:43 AM
2

I agree but would point out that men are expected to be the instigators (generally). In this regard, a socially awkward man is more disadvantaged than a socially awkward woman. Yup, not disputing this. It can also be unlearned in part, speaking from experience. This doesn't change the fact that the dynamics are in place that make these interactions a common occurrence. I'm not sure on what the solution is, but I don't think you can tell people not to approach people on the street. There's no one…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/03/21 11:16 AM
-1

I love being whined at about a few downvotes. My comment history here goes into the negative when challenging some of the shittier behaviour here, so I love being told I have a vendetta :D Look, in the other thread you said you didn't want people you were arguing with on this topic avoiding harsh realities. That for some reason doesn't seem to include people telling you the harsh reality that you are making this situation way harder on yourself than it needs to be. And you're doing it again here…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/03/21 11:04 AM
0

You didn't even respond to the example I did give in the first place, so.... Regarding downvoting, I think you should perhaps take your own advice on that one as well.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/03/21 10:45 AM
-2

Try reading my initial comment again.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/03/21 10:20 AM
1

If one can read the situation and there are signs of receptivity, sure. The guys here going "whuuuuh there's just nowhere we're allowed hit on women anymore" I suspect are the ones who will find that difficult.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/03/21 10:08 AM
1

Which still isn't censorship They're flooding a tag, sure. But that's hardly censorship in and of itself
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/03/21 10:06 AM
1

Regarding literally one context. Still leaves plenty of others.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/03/21 10:05 AM
0

The dialog box tho Have a good look
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/03/21 09:04 PM
3

"censored" Just click the show posts button man
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/03/21 12:26 PM
1

I already did. You just haven't parsed it properly yet, and I'm disinclined to waste further energy here.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/03/21 11:47 PM
-1

Can't m8 Mod's already said it's off topic innit Have a good one ;)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/03/21 11:42 PM
-2

That's not the point I was making. Try reading the comment chain through, and try again.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/03/21 11:39 PM
-3

It's just funny being asked for evidence of something I did, mainly. The evidence is in the links and in the point I made following them. Do you need me to post them again?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/03/21 11:34 PM
-1

What's the matter? You guys can't come up with something novel that isn't instantly self contradictory?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/03/21 11:04 PM
-1

"This is sub is doing just fine, thank you. We do not need reminding of our core values. Some people who participate maybe." Yeah, maybe a few people need reminding that it takes more than not being a tradcon MRA to be left wing. And some of the leadership need to think smarter and more strategically.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/03/21 10:54 PM
-1

Lol, EvIdEnCe I know it's true because I wrote here repeatedly about women misrepresenting men's experiences when they were discussing the Everard case, and got upvoted a-plenty for it. E.g https://www.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/m67yn2/comment/gr4fhcw https://www.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/m4mnmy/comment/gqvvimu Guys here are quite happy to upvote that, but heaven forfend you suggest they're making the same damn mistake when it comes to how they talk about women…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/03/21 10:49 PM
-4

This sub regularly needs reminding it's meant to be left wing. That doesn't alter the point of the OP, nor does my other point. Men here were complaining constantly that following the Everard case women were making things up about their own issues. As I said, it cuts both ways. If people make incorrect statements about women when they're meant to be talking about their own issues, it's not off topic to correct them. Consistency is nice.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/03/21 04:33 PM
-5

Caveat though, this is (at least meant to be) a left wing space There is also nothing preventing people from discussing their own issues without downplaying others. It cuts both ways.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/03/21 03:50 PM
-5

As opposed to...whatever you're doing in this comment? Vice-signalling?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/03/21 09:45 PM
17

Honestly, I've been witness to more catcalling being with female friends and having random guys neither of us know catcall them, than I've seen my own male friends/acquaintances doing it when I've been hanging out with them. At that point, random dickheads have fucked off, female friend is understandably upset, so at that point it seems more expedient to be there for them and help them feel better rather than chase the randos down to give them a talking to.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/03/21 05:37 PM
4

I agree with you - I've seen it at the level of unhelpful comments for sure, and that's what we're most likely to come across, and we should challenge it. I would agree with the OP though in that it still isn't going to come up super often in the circles a lot of guys find themselves in. I think I'm a lot more aware these days of what women (or at least the sort arguing for guys to do better) would consider problematic - but I'm still not seeing it in my personal life IRL.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/03/21 01:43 PM
9

Lol, no it isn't stay mad
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/03/21 01:43 PM
101

Scott Alexander touched on this. Caveat: no idea if the stat work holds up here, so take with a grain of salt pls https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/04/against-overgendering-harassment/ In response to tweet: "Isn't it strange how every woman knows someone who's been sexually harassed but no man seem to know any harasser?" (sic) I wonder if the woman who wrote this knows any of her close female friends who are harassers? I mean, statistically, some of them have to be. According to the German stud…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/03/21 01:28 PM
5

The articles takes one context - work - and generalises the reaction to workplace harassment to most of society, or at least if the article isn't, OP is. This is the mistake people keep making, they made it on the other thread, and they'll make it here. Context matters. The bulk of women are not ok with being hit on in public. Somewhat less so at work, but err on the side of caution and just don't do it there. Beyond that, it varies. A workplace is not a bar - and there are places where it's gen…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/03/21 01:18 PM
2

Pretending that feminists hate flirting and that it's just iiiiiiimpossible to find an acceptable space to flirt is denying reality. You don't help yourselves by making reality out to be harsher than it is.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/03/21 11:40 AM
0

The thread topic is a hasty generalisation about feminists being "against flirting". I corrected some of the logic in the OP in this post. Nowhere did I say that there aren't things to advocate for in terms of taking male dating complaints more seriously, or challenging conventional male attractiveness standards. But those aren't anything to do with the OP and some of the leaps in logic it contains. And I'm posting my story as an antidote to all the blackpill scented guff clogging up the thread.…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/03/21 11:21 AM
0

Most mammals aren't sentient and capable of choosing to behave differently to instinct. Gotta love being preached at about natural behaviour...on the internet
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/03/21 11:12 AM
-2

How do you justify any assumption that the male initiator role is mutable, in the sense that female initiation would approach equality? Where did I say it was approaching equality? It's obviously mutable, however. As it's become more socially acceptable for women to initiate, they have done so. I would argue we haven't challenged the older conventional approaches enough, ditto attraction preferences. It's a possibility, but so is growing a third leg. Male initiation is the dominant pattern acros…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/03/21 02:16 AM
2

Most of the people I met weren't at alt-lifestyle events and most aren't scenesters. The app dating process is pretty much the same as vanilla app dating in that regard. Plus, kink and non-monogamy tend to cut down your options, not open them up.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/03/21 02:14 AM
4

It's probably just a reference to the XX / XY difference. The Y chromosome is quite small. Whether this means 'more genetic info' in practice, I'm not sure.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/03/21 08:11 PM
1

I can't really advise on the specifics of dating as bicurious and submissive specifically, as I'm not either of those. In what sense do you think you're not a desirable demographic? Just as a man, or as a bicurious and/or submissive man? What I would say is a lot of the rules discussed here still apply, if not more so. Context of when and how you ask matters, and having a parallel understanding of a woman's possible sense of security really matters. On the upside, it is far easier (and expected)…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/03/21 08:01 PM
4

But if by attractive you mean looks, here's a fun fact: men tend to have much more standardized tastes in women than women in men. I don't know if it's nature or nurture (I'd say nurture), but it is what it is. Looks are not the main source of attractiveness for women. I'm always amazed at who my hot female friends find hot or even out of their league. Definitely guys I wouldn't date for their looks. Totally going to second this. For me, being both non-monogamous and having been to a BDSM event …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/03/21 07:03 PM
2

Feminism in general has a bit of a problem with acknowledging the different needs other minorities have. Hence intersectionality, the current spike in the TERF wars, etc.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/03/21 06:49 PM
7

I've been the gbf of many girls and women over the years. I did the briefing and debriefing of countless dates. Don't worry, they want this as much as you do. Now that you mention it, so have I. That's a good shout. It's a good way of looking at it. Women also want their dates to go well and to meet someone nice, and framing it like that helped me view dates as something more cooperative and fun, rather than feeling that I'm being tested. Sure, there are going to be women who are judgemental and…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/03/21 06:12 PM
3

At the risk of sounding like an incel: I'm just not a very attractive guy, and I have to look very hard to find a woman who might be interested in me. Women might be interested in dating men, yes, but they're very likely not interested in me personally. I don't know what you look like, but I told myself this a lot as well. Lots of rejection coupled with maybe just not a lot of experience (as was the case for me) - it makes you feel less attractive. This doesn't mean that you are unattractive, ho…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/03/21 06:09 PM
2

(police is a public institution btw) Might be more to do with the school involved than anything.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/03/21 06:00 PM
1

They will usually say that "flirting is not sexual harassment", but even from feminists, I have not heard a better distinction than: "It's not harassment when she likes it." Now, from experience, I do not just randomly get approached by women myself (unless they are twice my age or twice my weight, but sorry, that's not what I'm looking for), so the honest answer to the question whether a particular woman will like me to approach her is just: "Most likely no." Firstly, and I can't really help bu…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/03/21 05:48 PM
3

This is too much even for me but I'm pretty sure everyone involved needs Jesus
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/03/21 03:50 AM
3

I feel like it's the feminist version of 'defund the police'. A slogan that requires an essay to get to the actual, solid point, and is thus a bit of a double-edged sword.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/03/21 08:44 PM
1

Yeah, it could still be dicey, but it is at least a peer-reviewed journal, and it's about 100 years old now. There's a pretty broad number of journals out there and iirc social science papers tend to not be cited quite so much - that'll affect impact factor, but it doesn't mean the science is dodgy either. I guess that sub has to limit submissions somehow.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/03/21 07:00 PM
11

Just know that I support and accept you, and I hope that helps. Same here.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/03/21 06:48 PM
10

Yeah, I get that there is another way of coming at a more misgender-y response. Has a bit of a 'you're one of the good ones!' vibe, while ending up reinforcing attitudes that lead to trans people being misgendered.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/03/21 06:11 PM
1

It was a skim-read on my part, so it deserves more attention than I've given it. It's potentially useful for us, yes. The point about broadening anti-bullying approaches to include helping them deal with their home situation too seemed particularly good. I'm not sure if the author just doesn't like certain kinds of men's activism for how they behave, or is more generally of the belief that men don't face systemic issues as men. Hard to be sure from (a skim read of) this paper alone.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/03/21 06:02 PM
1

Journal having a low impact factor != not scientific.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/03/21 05:56 PM
2

Not a scooby, mate. As I said in my comment quickly reviewing the paper, I don't think people commenting here have actually read it. It is paywalled, so that would explain that. But freaking out over the abstract is ill-advised.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/03/21 05:46 PM
14

I think in practice the wage gap is a too-soundbitey way of describing a complex set of problems. It's a meme trying to describe way too much (as most political memes tend to). It's not particularly common afaik for wage gaps to be the consequence of direct discriminatory attitudes. Bosses don't sit in offices going HAHAHAHA PAY THE WAMEN 23PC LESS. It's a combination of, at minimum: women seeking flexible working, which may tie in with a greater burden of household work and childcare difference…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/03/21 05:43 PM
21

It can be that, but it may also be in other instances that they're applying the usual progressive stack logic of 'is oppressed because trans, not oppressed because man'. I seem to notice that in a few spaces the notion of transmisandry is rejected with the same vehemence as the notion of misandry when applied to men collectively or to cis men.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/03/21 05:30 PM
1

Frankly if Russia Today tells you the sky is blue, factcheck them. The police are logging the details of crimes perceived to be motivated by gender hatred. That doesn't mean it's yet a hate crime. They're just data-gathering at this stage, presumably to inform the actual hate crime legislation further down the line. The statement announcing this also did not imply they would only be recording allegations of misogyny, but any sex-based discrimination. Exaggeration doesn't help us, nor does Russia…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/03/21 04:51 PM
5

If there is to be a hate crime law on gender or moves towards that, at least it sounds like it's potentially gender neutral at least in the letter of the law. How it's applied is another matter. Page including text of the bill: https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/2709 The statement announcing the logging of gender hate stats for reported crimes also seems gender neutral: "On an experimental basis we will ask police forces to record and identify any crimes of violence against the person including s…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/03/21 04:46 PM
1

There isn’t.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/03/21 04:27 PM
2

Eh. I don't see anything egregious about the journal itself, it's a Wiley peer-reviewed one. Impact factor seems like kind of a crude metric for excluding or including sources, but then again, r science is a fairly busy board, so it's possible that they need some way of filtering what gets posted. Didn't exactly see the original discussion and now the comments are a bit of a graveyard so don't really know what else to say about this. I'm more responding to some of the reactions to it here.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/03/21 03:01 PM
3

Assuming because it's paywalled a lot of people are just reacting to the abstract. It's a fairly basic computational text analysis that looks for specific terms in 27 shooter manifestos (FREX / Frequency and Exclusivity approach). Topic headers and words assigned are, in order in which they appeared in the results: APOLOGIES (love, god, hate, sorry, help, together) PLANNED SHOOTING (shoot, today, school, date, past, dear) FRAGILE MASCULINITY (kill, men, girls, world, near, rejected) STATUS THREA…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/03/21 02:18 PM
2

Thank you! :) (I'm glad someone does)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/03/21 10:40 AM
4

Eh, depends on the therapist. Mine is an older woman and she was very empathetic about how the Everard discussion here had affected me, and didn’t blame that on me.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/03/21 12:37 AM
7

Pro it. Religious upbringing, so it was my outlet. The criticisms of it are overly broad, and are to some extent applicable to romance novels and erotica, but usually aren't applied to it. Reform out abusive behaviour, and with proper education on boundaries and consent no-one has to feel like they need to re-enact anything from porn in their personal life if they don't want to. Couldn't tell you. Haven't done one. Am not in the US. Would only take input on that from those that have. Feminist-ne…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/21 11:47 PM
8

Seconded, just get off Twitter. Don't feel you have to answer these people.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/21 10:35 PM
2

Labour is behind by 80 seats and can't seem to stop kicking itself in the balls. What is stopping the Tories from doing more? They have a massive majority and could push through what they like. The fact they aren't is telling. They are at best indifferent to men's issues, at worst just using people who care about them.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/21 10:24 PM
1

This group is in many ways the group 'the left' can role out and say, "look, we do care about men." This group is tokenism to a political movement that got taken over by extremists, is it not? I don't know where you think the left is doing that, not least because of the seeming tendency here of...naivete surrounding right wing ideas. Also....this has nothing to do with right wing hate movements deflecting criticism through tokens I am curious as to specifically when the Alt-right used Milo? Whic…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/21 10:18 PM
1

The fact that it can get taken over by extremists is sort of the point, Milo definitely didn't stick around with that crowd for a few months, and the point about tokenism is unchanged. This is literally the entire chuffing point of tokenism, they're the <minority> friend you can roll out to claim you're not being bigoted... while you're being bigoted. It really is quite depressing that people are still falling for this shit.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/21 07:25 PM
2

Some people got into own-the-libs cycles, maybe if you are an American this holds true but as a Brit I can say there isn't that much to that, personally. Well, I am talking online, and there's a lot of overlap between UK and US content of this type, so the two do tend to mutually reinforce. The Tories still haven't really given men much at all on the gender front - I'll grant them the annual IMD debate that was done in part to troll feminist MPs - and the implication that they aren't also sexist…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/21 06:40 PM
-1

Calm down. You said: Guess which gender tends to *feel* afflicted more and make mountains out of mole hills? And I corrected you. If that's not what you meant, be clearer. Both men and women in this country have experiences of the police not being great at handling their domestic violence allegations. It's not immediately apparently which direction this data-gathering will fall, but there are reasons to be concerned. Hasty generalisations aren't among them.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/21 04:03 PM
3

There was quite a lot of commingling of those groups though - reactionaries and free speech absolutists / libertarians. I thought it was just frustrated centre-lefties and centrists at first. But that wasn't the extent of the demographics in those groups. Then when they all start shilling for Brexit, Trump (because 'own-the-libs' should have been the prime directive of politics, apparently, and fuck all the other consequences of your choice) and many attempted to run as candidates in right-wing …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/21 03:46 PM
1

Having spent a few years in alt-righty spaces, this really isn't something either gender has a monopoly on.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/21 03:40 PM
13

Red Pill. The place men go to to learn how to control and abuse a woman. I know where else to look for specific less toxic resources for guys, besides a good therapist--only because I went to great lengths to find them. What of the next vulnerable 20 year old nerd? Made me think of this: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/31/radicalizing-the-romanceless/ I do not think men should be entitled to sex, I do not think women should be “blamed” for men not having sex, I do not think anyone owes sex to…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/21 01:57 PM
4

There is a whole heap of police legislation on the cards right now. Having one with a specific focus on one group is not automatically a problem, and there are possibly elements of the other legislation that will have a positive effect on crimes that tend to affect men.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/21 01:44 PM
7

There's a been a few attempts at this, so I wouldn't necessarily take this as the definitive version, plus any actual legislation will have to be debated out. At present I think the police have been asked to record data where gender aggravates the crime. However, this may not be a great start if enough of the police will overlook crimes committed against men where gender is an aggravating factor, so I'm worried the initial data gather by the police will come out stilted.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/21 01:43 PM
1

If a man is shot dead on the streets, he's not going to be recorded in these numbers because he can't report the crime. Doubtful. It's harder to miss a murder. It's a bit like how it's hard to monitor covid cases as testing regimes have changed dramatically over time, plus some people might just not get tested. Hospital bed availability and dead bodies though, those are more definitive.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/21 01:41 PM
20

That's a good find. Edwards et al (2014) do not explicitly mention how they managed such a feat, but I think the answer is clear from the labeling in one of their tables: "Any intention to rape a woman" (emphasis, mine). What the researchers did, then, was code any response other than a "1" as an affirmative; the statistical equivalent of saying that 2 is closer to 5 than it is to 1. In other words, the question was, "Would you rape a woman if you could get away with it," and the answers were, e…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/21 01:01 PM
7

This is generally what irks me about reddit, there's a not-insignificant level of mod incestuousness and it has an overall effect on the culture within subreddits. Called that particular mod out on FeMRADebates years ago for their gender issues shit, I see they haven't changed.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/21 10:22 AM
8

Oh sure, it's likely not the only dynamic. I'm just curious why that specific time range was given. Maybe it's just the reporting cycle period for this particular dataset, maybe it's cherry-picking - but one of those last 3 years was 2020, so the DV dynamics and their effect on the stats will likely be enhanced.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/21 10:07 AM
3

I kinda agree. Not that I'd be a fan of him, but Milo Yiannopoulos was proudly identifying as part of the alt-right and advocating for it. I don't think a white supremacist movement would take kindly to a gay man with a black partner. Tokenism. There is always a minority within a minority where this happens. This....really isn't new. Let's please not be fooled by this now. Milo was dicey 7 years ago, we've seen people pulled further into some really bad rightwing ideas as a result of being in gr…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/21 09:53 AM
1

To begin with it was just right and left wingers who wanted the establishment right to change - the neo-cons. It was at the heart a call for a grassroots right wing movement to provide balance when the right-wing political front appeared to be dominated by out-of-touch elites. But this is what ended up pulling a lot of people rightward, and why people should be wary about lying down with the right wing for any reason. The idea they were just concerned with neocons - isn't correct. They pulled in…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/21 09:51 AM
6

extremist feminists on Quora Ha, that takes me back. The only thing expert about Quora is the degree to which its userbase is stuck up its own arse.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/21 09:48 AM
23

Bear in mind, 'last 3 years' is in that claim. This would include the pandemic and lockdown, which may have resulted in different distributions of domestic violence and assaults outside the home.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/21 09:43 AM
0

Cope harder with the downvotes lads :D
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/21 09:27 AM
1

Shield your irony meters, lads
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/21 10:04 PM
2

So if we take the point that conservatives are born that way Except we needn't. We've got barely as far as 'born with certain personality types that tend to (but not exclusively) correlate with conservative political views'. That isn't 'conservatives are born that way'. Which makes sense as my personality indicators are very much contrary to the indicators that are typical from a conservative ...
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/21 10:02 PM
-2

You don't automatically fail to be on the left for being anti-idpol, but that often ends up with people finding allies and common cause with the right, which is possibly where the exclusion from those that aren't doing that comes from. Fundamentally, while idpol has its issues, the issues facing identity groups are real, and previous attempts at more left-wing governance haven't always addressed them. Class is important, but it doesn't address everything, or class dynamics may be shored up by ta…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/21 09:17 PM
5

Ah, this takes me back to six years ago. Shame. Edit: Oh, for clarity, I mean it's a shame that people are still underestimating the alt-right.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/21 08:47 PM
7

I generally don’t care for those terms, but there is definitely a type of guy who joins in with the stuff that hurts guys just so they can self-aggrandise. The male form of PickMe should be PickMen, and I will die on this hill.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/21 07:39 PM
16

The one thing to note however, is that their issues will never fully go away without an actual adult conversation between both genders (and let’s not forget those that lie betwixt). For as long as they keep blowing off men’s issues and trauma with an arsenal of thought-terminating cliches, they will never fully resolve their own causes.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/21 07:38 PM
16

Feel like OneY went more MensLibby over the last few years?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/21 07:35 PM
6

I’m sorry to hear what you went through, and you’ve had that level of negative attention (though I’m pleased to see you’ve had some positive responses on the subreddit). This is an important story to have told - it highlights that those using the NOTALLMEN canard (a meme which often gets misused to shut men down when they are correcting misrepresentations about them) sometimes hold the sort of beliefs that result in male victims of female abusers being erased.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/21 03:00 PM
0

Ok. There are still going to be nonusers reading that and seeing that as something sanctioned by the mods (and users, if you're that proud of the upvotes), people we need to convince. There is surely a way to support men without turning off outsiders, just be smart about it. That pinned topic isn't. And as before, in justifying this you have effectively argued against all the threads at present making genetic fallacy type comparisons against specific feminist arguments. Like I said...very confus…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/21 01:48 PM
0

It doesn’t matter. Have an ounce of strategy here. Find some other way of saying the same thing so that you aren’t giving people we need to convince yet another reason to ignore us. And again - half the fucking threads on this sub right now are about trying to link feminist talking points to racist ideology. Mods pinning that thread basically telegraphs that those arguments are now irrelevant here. This isn’t giving them ammunition, this is loading the ammunition into the gun and handing it to t…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/21 01:14 PM
1

Love being downvoted for this on this absolutely left-wing sub
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/21 01:05 PM
1

....any alternative we put forward will be de facto ideological. This is the same meme people say about not wanting to things to be ‘political’. That ship has sailed, come back, and sailed again.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/21 12:46 PM
-1

Inclined to agree, but personally didn’t come in expecting the hottest of left takes. There is still a lot of RW culture-war tier material around the place, I think some users are tired of it but don’t necessarily have anything better. Having said that, there are some really, really bad messaging choices here. There’s an ‘It’s okay to be a man’ thread pinned on the sub, and this is a gender swap of ‘It’s ok to be white’, which came out of that profoundly left wing and not problematic space, /pol…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/21 12:45 PM
10

https://web.archive.org/web/20210315020758/https://www.vox.com/2016/9/20/12987202/skittles-tweet-donald-trump-syrian-refugees The m&ms analogy has been used to hurt other demographics before, and this is worth making them very well aware of.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/21 12:13 PM
11

Oh, feminism is patriarchal. This is part of the reason I say it needs extreme reform, to the point where its reformed version will basically be unrecognisable. It relies on patriarchy in a number of ways. Demonising men is one of them - they claim that they think men are better or capable of better than the patriarchy does, but the M&Ms shit is literal Nazi logic, they used the same analogy in propaganda about Jewish people. Consequences likely won't be the same for us at all, but can hardly be…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/21 12:09 PM
1

They also on different pages refer to that pdf as 'the full data' (hmmm) or 'the full findings' (hmmm, given that this 3pc figure requires some special, not-obvious divination). So I think it's possible they might have made a conclusion that fits the data gathered, but it's not sufficiently explained in the report - or they've just fouled up a calculation / typo somewhere.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/21 12:50 AM
2

https://www.unwomenuk.org/appg-unwomen Ok, so I think it's possibly come from the original press release. "71% of women of all ages in the UK have experienced some form of sexual harassment in a public space – with young women in particular reporting high incidence. Only 3% of women aged 18-24 said they had not experienced sexual harassment." I'm still not seeing this in the report, and it seems like they are talking about public space harassment given the syntax. ...did they mean to type 13%, p…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/21 12:40 AM
3

So yeah, I'm not seeing this still. Think this first hit the press on the 9th. Guardian reports it as 97pc of 18-24 yos have been sexually harassed. p.6: 'this number rises to 86% among 18-24-year-olds' p.13: 'The survey showed that 18-24-year-old women experience the highest proportion of sexual harassment. The most common forms for this group are being cat-called or wolfwhistled (72%), being stared at in a way that made them feel unsafe or uncomfortable (68%), and in-person comments or jokes t…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/21 12:35 AM
1

With the 97pc claim, if the report is not explicitly making it, it may have come from early news reports - they may have done some combination of stats presented in the report. They may also have bollocksed up the calculation, potentially.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/21 12:19 AM
0

Conservatives being conservative Er, imagine my shock I guess
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/21 12:08 AM
5

The general criticism I have with this report is the broad definition of harassment. I think it's worthwhile to note the milder behaviours reported if one is treating harassment as a continuum (even while they feel the UN definition isn't broad enough). It can be worth noting the frequency of incidents on the mild end of the continuum, if they are considered possible precursors to more severe forms of harassing behaviour. However, there is quite a spread of behaviour here, and all one has to hav…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/21 12:02 AM
1

If you check back up the thread, I was countering the point that 'political theory' - whatever that is - 'never' acknowledges opponent's arguments. Social justice is a political-theoretical approach that clearly does this, and reclamation of terms is one way by which they do so - and they've done so quite successfully. As for toxic masculinity as a term - it may be of use to us, if it can be repurposed - or if attack lines about how progressives are actually building and reinforcing toxic mascul…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/03/21 11:47 PM
6

If I hadn't seem women making that sort of misrepresentation followed by the 'muh derailing' bait and switch, I'd probably not have been arguing in the discussion about the Everard case nearly as much as I did. I'd maybe have pushed back a little on the #notallmen arguing, because there are similar concept creep issues with that meme, where it is not always used according to how its proponents claim it is used. But I wouldn't be nearly as pissed off as there wouldn't have been the level of misre…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/03/21 03:16 PM
3

"Toxic" by nature is a term that allows clobbering. Toxic implies both a state capable of toxifying others as well as a state which itself is toxified. It allows its proponents to hide under the umbrella term whatever they don't like about men, sometimes to the point of using both implications of the term "toxic" against those they apply it to. Yeah, I was having the same thought just now about who/what is doing the 'toxifying'. Frankly, even the academics first coining the term blundered hard o…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/03/21 03:12 PM
4

As I said, that aspect of your argument may be true. I'm concerned that in arguing for an "acceptable use" of whataboutery we risk falling into the same dynamic I've highlighted. But as I said, that's a gut reaction, I am withholding judgement until I give your OP a proper indepth look.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/03/21 02:33 PM
2

I'd advise reading the paper in more detail. There are some examples of (for want of a better term) white feminist arguments that play into anti-Muslim stereotypes. A lot of the examples are in fact about feminists with backgrounds from those non-western cultures having internalised white or white-supremacist framings of the problems of violence in Muslim cultures, and the author seems to want to challenge that internalisation and have people use alternatives instead. I've only skimmed it, but I…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/03/21 02:30 PM
4

To be clear, I'm not taking a stance on your argument per se yet - I need more time than I've currently got spare to dig into in depth, so may do that later. Gut reaction is I don't think whataboutery is a good idea, but maybe your argument will alter my thinking on that when I cogitate on it in greater depth. And yes, what I'm saying may well fit with your approach. Usual social science problem, when discussing a term it's good to include as many ways the term is used in the analysis, so the tw…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/03/21 02:17 PM
36

Not to like skip over most of your effortpost, but I think there's an even simpler reason: A lot of what is alleged to be whataboutery isn't whataboutery. In practice, men are often responding to their issues being misappropriated and dragged into the discussion. Take the Everard case discussion. How many times did women feel the need, when 'discussing their own issues', to decide it was apparently necessary to make statements about how men don't feel scared in public? At this point they have ma…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/03/21 01:58 PM
1

Yeah, I agree we should stop using those terms. They are insults based on a fallacious concept of a hierarchy that doesn't really exist, apart from anything else. Virtually every guy I have seen deploying 'beta' and 'simp' as regular insults are...er...protesting too much, I find
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/03/21 01:52 PM
2

This is a fair point, might just be that a lot of people are mildly self-absorbed or narcissistic.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/03/21 01:49 PM
2

Saw this dynamic a-plenty over the last week with men being repeatedly told their being scared in public as a result of PTSD is magically different to women being scared in public as a result of PTSD.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/03/21 01:48 PM
3

People - women included - are remarkably crap at hearing what men actually think and feel. I suspect for many they rely mentally and emotionally on our stoicism. The demand for men to open up more is a good one, but given that men's stoicism is enforced on us to fulfil social roles (security, protector, provider etc), there is a strong corollary requirement for people to have the guts to listen to what we end up opening up about.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/03/21 01:47 PM
7

Tbh this is why I would encourage people to cross the street, not get too close etc, all that advice. Do it to make sure you are safe first and foremost.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/03/21 01:42 PM
3

Ultimately, I do want to help more. I've done a lot of soul-searching over the last week, and while I don't like how they discuss our issues, that isn't reason enough for me to not help. Even if they aren't going to reciprocate. Background - I don't care for Christianity. I was brainwashed into it as a child, it messed me up psychologically in ways I'm still unpicking a decade after ditching it. I think it's absolute garbage that has long overstayed its welcome and humanity needs to ditch it. Ho…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/03/21 01:41 PM
8

I will need to dig into the theory you have cited on this, but thank you for presenting a very different perspective on this - and language is pretty key to all of this, so going into labelling and how that affects people is valuable. I am still left wondering if there is a feminine analogue of toxic masculinity. Closest I can get is benevolent sexism, but that's buying into the usual patriarchal framing of how agency differs between men and women. Stuff that can be argued to benefit women is fr…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/03/21 01:23 PM
0

How is it a lie for them to have valid feelings of fear and anger? Even if they're the minority of victims in a particular issue that doesn't mean they can't be scared? This is how they've been talking about us all week, no need to stoop to their level.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/03/21 05:52 PM
1

Yeah I debated whether to break out my Russian keyboard, but the similarity between CCCP and CCP was too good to pass up I was dying inside though at the same time
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/03/21 05:50 PM
3

What political theory states this? There's a few of them. Should also be noted that social justice approaches to terminology can include reclamation of terms. Tactically as well if you can condemn them under the terms they have set out, you can create a shift away from them.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/03/21 05:47 PM
5

I've seen some screengrabs of social media profiles (I didn't go looking for them, I happened to see them posted on a different social media platform, and please noone go looking for them) that would suggest she is. However, I'm still going to be fairly sceptical of this. On principle, I don't know if Everard feeling the way she's alleged to in this Spiked article makes much of a difference. If we were talking about a man who'd been murdered by his girlfriend, and it turned out he was a died-in-…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 09:15 PM
2

No source beyond spiked though
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 05:30 PM
0

Elites are using isolated incidents to push their longstanding agenda What elites What agenda In the UK right now you've got a mainly women's activist, left-leaning protest over Everard's death clashing with a highly rightwing government. Incidentally, that government was already on the verge of passing legislation that will make it way harder to protest, which is in contradiction to the agenda of the protestors. https://www.politics.co.uk/comment/2021/03/11/silencing-black-lives-matter-priti-pa…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 05:30 PM
1

Out of curiosity, would rule 11 apply to most of OP's contributions here? I did legit want to talk about this topic but OP turned this thread into a So's Law jamboree within about five minutes.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 04:08 PM
1

Alright, so from the original post, and I'm going to be fairly blunt at points here: 'It'll be like the 1960s was for women. Open discrimination in workplaces with impunity, because your female boss thinks men are trash, and the female dominated HR agrees. Radicalised women refusing to vote for male politicians, and electing a hundred Jess Phillips. Radicalised women becoming judges and refusing to properly adjudicate anti-discrimination laws against men.' This is entirely speculative. I think t…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 03:58 PM
2

I rejected what you were claiming about the situation, precisely because I had not (nor did you give me) a single piece of information or evidence to think you weren't talking absolute shite. I tend to reject arguments that are logically flawed and presented without evidence. Do you not? This is slightly better troll material, and elicited some merriment. More Kafkaesque absurdity like this pls
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 03:09 PM
8

Comparisons to Judaism are probably going to get shot down in one form or another anyway, mainly for the simple reason that they've suffered from massive institutional underrepresentation for centuries along with multiple pogroms and genocides. Men haven't, to put it mildly. I get why the Jewish comparison was made. You want to highlight the similarity of attitudes in a qualitative sense (as in, the attitudes against men have the same form as discriminatory attitudes against other groups) - that…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 03:06 PM
0

Lol, that's the sort of the point, clown. You only posted a claim about about one child in one school for your argument that an entire state is in some kind of educational crisis and needs intervention. Non sequitur on steroids. And you haven't presented a damn thing by way of evidence for a single thing you've said. I'm not claiming anything - other than pointing out how you just suck at making an argument. Who hurt you, boo? Why you so mad? Can we help?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 02:53 PM
1

Christ I'm glad I don't act like this anymore. Avoid the right wing brainworms, everyone
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 02:48 PM
1

I'm basing my response it on what you've presented, you absolute clown. I've never heard of this case before, you brought it up, but what you are presenting (zero documentary evidence and an incoherent argument) isn't proof of anything. I'm arguing against what you've presented, and I'm not going to present evidence for your own argument. Czerdec, more like pizdec
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 02:46 PM
-1

Happy to talk about this further when you post some proof. Till then, stay mad
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 02:40 PM
1

No, I seriously don't. Amazingly, that wasn't even within the same star system of what I said, and even more amazingly, it is possible to care about more than one problem at the same time. Again - that some other country is even shittier to its people doesn't negate criticism of our own for how we mistreat people, even if it is less severe. Now do come on. If you're going to troll at least be a little subtler about it. Or at least be funny. Have another go, and see if you can make me laugh with …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 02:39 PM
0

Ok, so no proof. Can't seem to decide whether the issue is confined to one child, one school, or one state, but all you've shown is one child spoken to a certain way. And clearly either very silly or very deceptive to act as if institutions can't fuck up, and that doesn't mean the fuckup is "official policy". Before I answer any further, perhaps you should state for us what you actually hope to accomplish here. Because you're jumping from topic to topic, not posting evidence for what you're talk…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 02:36 PM
2

You're comparing paying money to Stalin to, what, people having shit takes on Twitter? I don't think this is quite the own you think it is, but anyway - I think this should summarise the relevant info and contain any further silly jumping around of topic: No, lefties shouldn't post hot takes supporting either the CCCP or the CCP, or send them money. This whataboutery does nothing to change the necessity for right wingers to not prop up or profit from white supremacy, far right nationalism, etc. …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 02:32 PM
1

One example of one child > "racial bullying is now official education policy" Yeah nah mate. You might want to add more detail to what you're asking, because it seems like you're just here to try gotcha questions and not doing a very good job of it. Showing where "making kids apologise for being white" is actual education policy would be a good start.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 02:24 PM
2

You're asking a very unspecific question, so you got a general answer. Obviously my answer isn't going to cover all scenarios. Chill. Yes, obviously if you are directly contributing to harm, then you are personally responsible for it. Your question is talking in general terms about demographic accountability and understanding regarding social problems. People do not all contribute the same amount, which is why I said that often people just want understanding and awareness, not raiding your walle…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 02:20 PM
1

Depends where we're talking about? Most of these people are criticising the systems they live under or ones that used to run their country. The criticisms go by political boundaries, not ideology. If we're talking about former bloc members or colonies, then yes, there should be some accounting for USSR occupying most of Eastern Europe, not least given the recent activities of its successor state. As a leftie who didn't live under the Soviet bloc or in Russia now, I don't see what would be incumb…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 02:10 PM
1

With a lot of historical issues, they are often not purely historical. They often have consequences in the here and now. Usually in practice what people want is an acknowledgement and understanding of what happened and solidarity of where things still need fixing now as a knock on effect of those things. Some loudmouths personalise that responsibility, but once you dive into this stuff you find that people aren't making like constant demands for reparations or whatever. Noone has asked me to apo…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 01:54 PM
6

Appreciate you writing that! Opening up about the stuff you haven't opened up for before might be challenging, hope you have people you can talk to?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 01:48 PM
2

Right. I suppose this point is only there because there's a lot of arguments about it, but that probably reflects the quality of the debate in the first place. Women and women's activists are pretty gatekeepery when it comes to others talking about abuse. They've likely experienced it themselves, I'm sure, which may be where the commenter OP wrote about is coming from, but that doesn't make it right to keep perpetuating.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 01:44 PM
1

Yup, that sure isn't your opinion, which is why I didn't say it was. Hope this helps!
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 12:04 PM
0

I'll end this discussion by saying that imitating a meme that was kicked off by /pol/ (of all places!)as some kind of gotcha to racism is a profoundly boneheaded move for an ostensibly left wing sub.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 12:01 PM
-3

But people weren't saying differently, which is why it got torn to shreds. Or at least, they were using a different definition of white.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 11:52 AM
21

I don't get these people, really. Women correctly point out that patriarchy/conventional gender roles/whatever you wanna call it brutalises men so many don't express their emotions. Ok, good, well done. Then they immediately take men's statements or absence of statements of their emotional state at face value. Literally why would you do this, if you actually did believe men weren't good at expressing emotions. And when we do express our fear - our fear of being in public, for example - it just g…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 10:43 AM
12

Increasingly I am noticing how so much of different struggles, including those on men's issues, are simply appropriated and respun towards supporting the issues of (some) women. This has even bigger impact on even more marginalised groups.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 09:55 AM
4

There's a lot more to object to on Spiked than just the Brexit idiocy, and "principled" is definitely not a word that describes them, but leaving that aside - I think I'd consider this more credible coming from Everard's family - "friend" is....ok, how close, what degree of separation are we talking about, etc. Not everyone spills how they feel about gender issues to all their friends - given our opinions on gender, I sure as heck don't!
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 09:39 AM
2

Solidarity can be cultivated. But we are pretty behind on that one.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 09:33 AM
0

Not to be cynical, but slogans like It's Ok To Be White is a positive-framed slogan and got torn to shreds (justifiably, I would say). This will likely get framed in the same way because of the usual "but you're privileged" line. Gender oppression being different to racial oppression, however, this can be pushed back on.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 09:31 AM
1

Data may help. Notallmen is sometimes used according to purpose - sometimes guys do randomly pipe up with it when the conversation about abuse of women really isn't making generalisations about men. However, very often - and I saw this with the discussion around the everard case - people arguing for women's causes will deploy the notallmen canard when women are misrepresenting men's experiences. I had one guy notallmen me for challenging the "men don't get scared in public" shit people were push…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 09:27 AM
34

I noted in another thread recently - I think I figured out why this "NO YOU'RE NOT SCARED OF THESE THINGS" insistence doesn't sit well with me. Aside from it being really shitty behaviour, of course. When I hear people insisting that no, you don't get to be scared of these things, I hear: "What do you have to be scared of? She's smaller than you / women get abused more anyway / ok fine, men get abused by women but it's not as bad usually / buh, how do women rape men anyway?" I've been recalling …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 09:19 AM
6

I personally would want proof that this is actually from a friend of hers. Sucks that it's spiked running this, tbh.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 08:49 AM
3

What's frustrating is the sheer variance in the demands being barked at us as men. There are some who just seem to want a callout if a guy happens to be a dick in your vicinity. Like, ok fine, I guess. Not too onerous, even if the dialogue the demand came from is dire. And yet that - to some of these people - isn't enough. This week I've seen a few women literally expecting men to intervene in physical altercations. That combined with their disdain for the stats on assault being waaaay higher fo…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/03/21 10:18 PM
2

Eh. I'm generally fine with prioritising refugee concerns over gender ones, but not if it comes to excusing Nazi rhetoric.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/03/21 09:52 PM
10

The TERFs are definitely spinning Everard's murder as supposedly being evidence justifying their demands.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/03/21 09:39 PM
18

This is a good point and one worth propagating. While there are abusive guys out there, and it can be hard to tell them apart at first glance...the poisoned skittles / m&ms analogy is literal fucking Nazi logic. https://www.vox.com/2016/9/20/12987202/skittles-tweet-donald-trump-syrian-refugees I don't care about hierarchy of oppression bullshit arguments about whether it's somehow ok to talk to men this way but not refugees because they're more oppressed or whatever. Playing with this rhetoric, …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/03/21 09:37 PM
1

Appreciate you being open to hearing them. I'm feeling the frustration right now. It's difficult to ignore the feeling of wanting to charge back to that space where all that matters is the momentary validation of your hurt. But it's not a solution, and we have to stand firm and resist that. I also don't want to feel like anyone here who might be more involved with the right is a bad person - but ultimately, one can't palm off 'well the left were awful to me' as justification for remaining in tha…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/03/21 01:09 PM
3

I suspect they say this because they expect us to join in with them. 'So you agree men are a big problem, so why aren't you talking about this problem like we are?' But....we're also men, so why would we join in with what is (by the standards they already set out) a load of stereotyping, generalisation, lack of sympathy, and bashing? I agree these issues facing women need dealing with - I'm also not about to reinforce a load of attitudes that are going to make it harder as a man for my issues to…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/03/21 11:40 AM
1

Mankind might also help.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/03/21 11:36 AM
3

Yes, completely, but you know what, I don’t blame them in the slightest for falling in with The Right. They’re only naturally gravitating towards communities where they feel they are respected and their voices heard. Going to challenge this. I drifted right a few years ago. And now am back more leftwards as a result. Yes, the left is still completely fucking useless at talking to and understanding men. But 'I have no choice but to throw my lot in with the right' is a choice made by those men - j…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/03/21 10:57 AM
4

I mean, obviously there's hypocrisy there. But equally, I'm not very keen on how keen some equality types are to defend Hill - it was nonetheless an inappropriate relationship she engaged in, but the narrative seems to be focused pretty strongly on them being outraged over the fact that someone leaked her nudes. Which is shit, but people wouldn't accept some sob story from a man facing MeToo accusations, so there is little reason to pay it much heed here.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/10/19 07:32 PM
5

It depends on context. In and of itself, we do, statistically. There's nothing inherently incorrect about that. But it's rarely ever a simple statement of fact in pure isolation, and that's where the problems begin. In the gender debate, it's usually thrown up as some kind of victim-blame-y deflection of a men's issue. Or it is used to demand some kind of collective responsibility for men in solving the issues of others, in a way that other groups are not demanded solve men's issues. When black …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/10/19 11:56 PM
3

' But surely not all men are trash? This objection is as illuminating as it is common. First, note that people rarely object by saying “men aren’t trash.” Instead, they say “not all men are trash.” The implication is that it is widely accepted that many men are trash.' There's essentially the privileging of a certain stereotype here. This is just not how language generally works, in literally every other related context. If I said 'Women are X', especially if X was something negative, people wou…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/10/19 12:22 AM
1

See I'm fine with the idea that oppressors don't understand the oppressed. But the idea that one would perfectly understand the oppressors as the oppressed is horesshit. As members of the group you are painting as oppressors, you will be predisposed to assume the worst about them. "Oppressor" is not a good term. Oppression is a recipe for neither group fully understanding the other. So this is from standpoint theory then... I always wondered what the source of this bs was. (BTW, did you use to p…
/r/MensRights02/11/17 08:50 AM
3

I think part of the reason she reacted so emotionally is that she really does have a hard (but fulfilling) life. She works constantly and still makes time for the kids. It's a juggling act that leaves her feeling simultaneously like a less-than-stellar mother and a less-than-perfect doctor. It's no wonder female unhappiness rates are so high. A lot of women have basically doubled their workload. Quite. And that's scarcely the fault of men's rights - guess which ideology has been telling its adhe…
/r/MensRights05/01/17 12:05 AM
1

I think it's simpler than that tbh. Group you're exposed to and who may have not inconsiderable influence over your life (a very feminist university, e.g.) constantly berates your gender via collective guilt, but implies that if you play along with what they want you can redeem yourself or be considered one of the "good" men. It's cult behaviour.
/r/MensRights27/10/16 10:44 AM
1

Not only that, they tie it to the attempts to criminalise misogyny - click on link, and wording of proposed law defines misogyny as committable only by a woman. D'oh! Heck, if they're going to language police, make them do it consistently. They may think twice about it if it means punishing a greater number of women than men.
/r/MensRights18/10/16 11:45 AM
1

Which report exactly was criticising the London CPS? Hadn't heard of that.
/r/MensRights16/10/16 03:02 AM
1

Also in my defence, literally everyone I was arguing about this petition with today (back when I thought there wasn't any provision at all in UK law for made-to-penetrate cases) including an (alleged) barrister didn't even mention it. They were saying rape would be filed under aggravated sexual assault or assault by penetration....all of which I think DO cause made-to-penetrate cases to fall through the cracks. And all they (including the MoJ) needed to do to nail their side of the argument was …
/r/MensRights11/05/16 08:23 PM
3

Good catch. I was thrown by the CPS sentencing guidelines which don't make any mention of life imprisonment in their examples which also distinguish between penetration and nonpenetration. No reason why it shouldn't be called rape though in many cases.
/r/MensRights11/05/16 11:53 AM
4

Even according to recalibrated ONS (i.e. UK government) stats, it's about 70% female victims. I also would love to know where they are getting their stats from.
/r/MensRights05/01/16 12:21 AM
1

The entire article could be bypassed by suggesting either (a) go MGTOW, because frankly ain't no-one got time for that, or (b) hold out for the women that aren't this crushingly insecure about everything. Certainly avoid the ones who think that you should be profiled as a potential threat because you're male / because stupid Louis CK quote. There's so much stupid in this article I don't even know where to begin, but the one that really stood out was calling slut-shaming an existential reputation…
/r/MensRights04/12/15 09:53 AM
6

endviolenceagainstwomen Erm...what violence? Seriously. Going through the hashtag right now and there's no violence or any kind of threats of violence, at least in the recent tweets. End Insults Against Women, more like. And heaven forfend they be insulted.
/r/MensRights04/12/15 01:32 AM
3

Liar, I wouldn't personally say. "Not exactly the sharpest tool in the drawer and thus prone to mindlessly repeating feminist soundbites" is a bit more accurate to me.
/r/MensRights01/11/15 09:07 PM
12

Jesus fuck that's pathetic. Most people seeing this flash by on the screen, I suspect, will remember the giant CANNES and won’t even notice the word “independent” underneath it. Or, like the reporter for the San Rafael Patch, they’ll change the “independent” to “international” in their minds. Or maybe they'll, I don't know, read it? Well done for insulting so many, Futrelle - Jaye, backers & reporters too
/r/MensRights01/11/15 08:37 PM
1

I agree with this. It might seem worse, but I think a lot of what we hear about we hear about because people are finally challenging this shit. My pet theory as to why this type of thinking made the gains it did is because of a vocal minority (of a minority, remember actual self-identifying feminists are only about 20% or so, at least in the US/UK) being able to mobilise on twitter and social media. They're going to struggle to keep it up because more of their opponents are mobilising on those m…
/r/MensRights18/07/15 09:42 PM
2

I've run foul of the moderation at GMP yet again, and this wasn't posted, so may as well post it here. But let’s talk for a minute about why the “mob” at Reddit decided >to go. The public reason was that a woman in charge of a popular >section at Reddit “ask me anything” had been fired. But it turns >out—Ellen Pao didn’t fire her. One of the original founders, Alexis >Ohanian, had allegedly fired the woman in charge of AMA according to Gawker and others." According to some, yes. That came out af…
/r/MensRights18/07/15 09:35 PM
2

I was wondering about that story earlier this week. I suppose if it were released today, feminists would tear Harper Lee to shreds because false rape accusations are a dirty misogynist myth. Cross-examine Mayella Ewell, in a felony trial? Why can't this misogynist shitlord just BELIEVE THE VICTIM
/r/MensRights16/07/15 01:20 AM
3

Hi all, Just to make things a little more confusing, I'm not an MRA, but I don't think the notion of this film being feminist propaganda is 100% ridiculous. I'm sure the film itself is fine, but it does tweak my interested somewhat why a feminist like Eve Ensler was hired as some kind of consultant for the film. Why do you need a feminist consultant on a film anymore than you need a liberal consultant or a conservative consultant, or a consultant for any other sort of political position? What wa…
/r/MensRights20/05/15 06:23 PM
1

Ha, nice one, I'll have to remember that. I've personally found it easier for me to remain unaligned as it were in this debate - I don't identify as feminist or MRA and I find that helps me remain open to discussing both sides. But I would consider myself pro-MRA. I've often found myself challenged by what they say and they have given me new points of view to think about. And the issues they are fighting are very real, and there are few groups out there taking them seriously to the extent the MR…
/r/MensRights26/05/14 04:11 PM
1

So you would say it's not something that was composed by the modern men's rights movement by popularised from elsewhere? The reason I ask is that GoodMenProject has been patting themselves on the back because they've suddenly started talking about "male disposablity" using that exact term. And yet no acknowledgement of the movement that has done most of the popularising of that term in recent times. And not like you can readily point that out there given the utter anti-MRM bias that place has. I…
/r/MensRights26/05/14 03:47 PM
12

Poe's law strikes again!
/r/MensRights07/09/13 12:38 PM
1

"Gloria Steinem (for as much as I could never stand her) once made a rather good point : If you want to know if something is sexist , simply reverse the sexes." Sorry to be a pain in the backside - do you have a source for that? I ask because I discovered an idea like that and thought it was a great idea. Started doing it quite a lot. (Then I discovered some "it's not sexism when it affects men because historical power imbalances and dynamics herpy derpy doo" feminists- sigh). So I'd be very cur…
/r/MensRights08/01/13 09:48 AM
0

All I can say is, good.
/r/MensRights07/01/13 01:54 PM
1

Even so, the entire article, instead of taking the opportunity to address their detractors' concerns, turns into a lecture about how it's wrong to say "feminist dogma" even though there is technically nothing wrong with such a phrasing. There is dogma in this debate regardless of what quibbles one can make with the phrasing of the claim, and the issue is with that which is feminist. (The same thing is prone to happen when you (rightly) accuse certain feminists of sexism. "Sexism comes from privi…
/r/MensRights30/01/12 02:05 AM
1

Is there an issue of demand here beyond gender politics? I would have thought men are probably less likely to get checked out for physical complaints, but I'm probably over-generalising.
/r/MensRights29/01/12 03:32 PM
1

And the criticism was about feminist dogma, not feminism.. If you're not a dogmatic feminist, then it doesn't apply to you. But the author of this piece still felt the need to deny it altogether and get bogged down in semantics. It's dishonest and obfuscatory.
/r/MensRights29/01/12 03:23 PM
1

They are still Christian, nonetheless. Just because they don't agree in the minutiae doesn't mean that the label doesn't apply. I'll agree that even a few more quantifiers along the lines of "some feminists are dogmatic by way of claim x" would go a long way to avoid removing the likely source of the objection but when this kind of semantic quibble is used to outright deny that dogma exists or to bog the discussion down in whether dogma is truly "feminist" or not, it comes across as very disinge…
/r/MensRights28/01/12 04:05 PM
1

Oh goody! Time to launch my 'nonwhite people can stop crime' campaign!
/r/MensRights28/01/12 02:14 PM
1

Eh. It's not a bad take on the matter I suppose, but I can't say I rate either mensch or penny. The former is pretty damn self serving and the latter strikes me as somewhat reactionary.
/r/MensRights28/01/12 02:11 PM
1

Shit like this makes me prouder when my gf tucks into a huge burger. And yet that's nothing really to be proud of, but this is what happens when clowns like this are the opposition.
/r/MensRights28/01/12 02:10 PM
1

Fucking unadulterated bullshit. This is like saying there's no dogma in Christianity because there are multiple different denominations within it. Blatantly false excuse-making. Each subset can still have its own dogma.
/r/MensRights27/01/12 02:33 AM
1

I'll give the same answer feminists do. If you don't like how rape victims are treated, go lobby for them yourself.
/r/MensRights21/01/12 04:29 PM
9

Tip of the iceberg, but nice to see that at least one woman gets how this dodgy concept can be applied both ways.
/r/MensRights21/01/12 04:28 PM
1

Yes, alright, point taken. I suppose one could also say that she's being sexist by not addressing the fact that her child will inevitably be spending time with her and her new partners.
/r/MensRights21/01/12 03:42 PM
2

It's hardly even sexist, it's just mentally unrealistic. The son is bound to come into contact with his parents' new SOs eventually.
/r/MensRights20/01/12 10:29 AM
2

I like Ally Fogg. Generally ok.
/r/MensRights19/01/12 05:53 PM
5

No, this was my objection to it too. There's a big difference between issues involving rights and discrimination, and issues involving expression. The bazooka-titted chicks in comics is a bit cliche, but it's no different in my eyes to the "survey" that Dr Nerdlove (christ) made in his follow up, where the girls surveyed said they didn't like Batman-physical-types - they liked, er, Gambit-physical-types instead. That's just as realistic (how many guys are there strutting around with 8-packs?) in…
/r/MensRights18/01/12 11:02 AM
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