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One_Job9692 Archive

View 10 posts and 940 comments by One_Job9692 on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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-1

I think this sounds like negging to you because you're most likely a woman and looking at things through that lens. Objectively, this is a much harsher post for men, and calling for men to raise their standards or x y z will occur, making things more difficult for them.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 03:12 PM
2

I’m not saying that every woman walks around with an inflated ego, but constant uncritical attention can lead to some women feeling like they're in high demand, whether they consciously realise it or not. It’s about how consistent attention, even if undesired, affects self-perception. I agree that women may conclude all men are "lemons" based on their bad experiences. But that’s still a distortion of the reality of the dating market. The real issue is how unfiltered attention, without boundaries…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 03:08 PM
-3

“Sexual market value” may be a theory, but it's based on observable dynamics in dating. High demand can increase perceived value, but that doesn’t mean it’s genuine value in a deeper, emotional or relational sense. People often move on when they’re not meeting someone’s standards, but that doesn't mean they’re necessarily improving themselves in a meaningful way. The issue is that when surface-level attention becomes equated with self-worth, it leads to distorted expectations and relationships b…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 02:58 PM
0

Yes, you're right much of that attention is driven by sexual desire. But that’s the point: when women are constantly sought after, even if it’s just for sex, it reinforces the idea that they’re desired. And whether or not they want to acknowledge it, that can still inflate their sense of self-worth and dating value.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 02:54 PM
9

Well yright—men should be more selective. When men don’t hold boundaries, it harms everyone. That’s the conversation here. Men should be dating for genuine connection, not just for a quick hookup. Not doing so has an undesired effect..
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 02:53 PM
-1

This comment made me realise how ignorant some women are to male behaviours. You've inspired another post idea for me thank you!
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 02:51 PM
1

If you say so.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 02:50 PM
1

This is not a quantifiable issue.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 02:49 PM
-1

If a woman has a dozen men vying for her attention, sure, that reflects some level of desirability. But desirability doesn’t equal worth in a relationship sense. It’s a surface-level measure that often doesn’t account for compatibility, emotional maturity, or genuine connection, all factors that shape long-term value in relationships. As for defining a woman’s worth i dont think its about one set definition, but about recognising that people’s value isn’t determined by how many men are intereste…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 02:41 PM
2

Maybe the reason you're not treated that way is because you're not contributing to the pattern I am criticising. Congrats. Though I'm not sure your intentions with that last comment...
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 02:38 PM
1

The issue isn’t just about you as an individual though. This is about the broader dating culture. Even if you filter out men who engage in influencer culture, the lack of standards still shapes the overall dating ecosystem. It’s not just about unwanted attention but about how the bar keeps lowering, making it harder for men to set healthy expectations.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 02:35 PM
0

You’re right that unwanted sexual attention is uncomfortable, demeaning, or even traumatic for many women and no one is denying that. But that doesn’t change the fact that SOME women do internalise constant, uncritical male attention as a form of validation, whether it’s wanted or not. This isn’t about minimising harmful attention, it’s about recognising the broader dynamic where attention—even unearned—can distort self-perception. It’s not about assuming every woman feels the same way but about…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 02:32 PM
-1

This is more so about the subtle effect of constant validation. When they’re flooded with low-effort attention, it reinforces the idea that they’re in demand, even if they’re not interested in those men. It’s about perception, not conscious belief. The issue isn’t whether women settle but how the constant stream of attention skews the overall dating dynamic.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 02:30 PM
3

You're conflating different types of content. Posting in niche, women-focused communities like r/MakeupAddiction isn’t what I’m talking about. That’s not the kind of attention economy driving distorted dating dynamics. The point is about platforms and behaviours where male validation is actively sought out and rewarded whether that’s through thirst-traps, suggestive content, or low-effort posts that still rack up likes. That space exists, it’s massive, and it shapes how some women perceive their…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 02:24 PM
2

It’s not unreasonable to feel like the dating pool is full of lemons—it’s unreasonable to treat every man like one by default. That’s the distortion. You can recognise a pattern without letting it define your entire outlook. The issue is when perception becomes prejudice and too many people, men and women, fall into that.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 02:19 PM
0

You keep shifting the goalposts. First, you say “show me where women think this way,” then when the claim is about perception being shaped over time by attention patterns, you demand hard numbers as if subconscious social dynamics can always be quantified cleanly. You’re asking for lab data on a cultural trend good luck. No one’s saying most women walk around thinking, “I’m relationship material because random men want to have sex with me.” The point is that when attention is constant, even if u…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 02:07 PM
2

Enough men are simping to make it visible and visibility is what drives perception. The dating pool might feel full of “lemons,” but the problem is when women treat all men as if they’re part of that subset. That’s where the distortion comes in. Generalising based on the loudest or thirstiest examples isn’t accurate, but it happens constantly and that’s exactly the issue being called out.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 02:02 PM
-5

Nobody said every woman who rejects a guy thinks she’s above him. The point is that some women especially those constantly pursued regardless of effort or compatibility start to internalise that attention as proof of higher value. That can lead to inflated egos despite body image issues or insecurity. Confidence and insecurity aren’t mutually exclusive. You can dislike your body but still believe you’re too good for most men romantically especially if you’re constantly reminded that men will cha…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 01:58 PM
2

No. Some women are wrong because they generalise all men based on the behaviour of that desperate subset. Simping is often a sign of emotional immaturity or lack of standards, but it’s not representative of all men. The issue is when women take attention from that subset and use it to validate a belief that most men are beneath them. That’s the distortion I’m pointing out.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 01:53 PM
2

You’re stuck on the metaphor instead of the meaning. Whether you see the woman as the car or the customer, the point holds: when something is constantly approached, pitched to, or pursued, it affects perception especially when that pursuit is relentless and uncritical. That’s the dynamic being addressed. The metaphor’s just a tool you’re obsessing over the label instead of the logic.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 01:52 PM
3

Sure but pretending dating dynamics aren’t affected by male behaviour is like denying the dragon while ignoring the burn marks. You don’t need a skull when the fire’s already reshaping the landscape. The evidence is the distorted dating culture we’re all navigating you’re just refusing to connect the cause and effect.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 01:51 PM
3

No it’s wrong because that belief gets reinforced by men who’ll tolerate anything just to be near them. When enough guys chase without standards, it stops being about who is worth their time and starts being about why they think they’re above everyone. That’s the distortion I’m talking about. FYI, condescension will not be able to compensate for your lack of insight.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 01:50 PM
2

The difference is, the car doesn’t have a self-image—people do. When someone is constantly pursued, even by low-effort or unwanted attention, it can still affect how they perceive their own value. That’s the whole point. The pandering doesn’t change objective value, but it can absolutely warp perceived value in the mind of the person receiving it.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 01:49 PM
2

If you think everyone who disagrees with you is just inexperienced or unqualified, then you’re not debating—you’re just insulating your worldview. That’s not a discussion.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 01:47 PM
0

You're emotionally venting, not actually debunking anything. Saying “some women believe they’re unworthy” doesn’t refute the claim that others especially those flooded with male attention might internalise the opposite. Both things can be true at once. That’s not a contradiction; it’s reality. Also, high demand doesn’t always equal high value in dating. Being desired sexually doesn’t guarantee you’re a good partner ask anyone who’s been in a toxic relationship with someone “hot.” You’re throwing…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 01:43 PM
2

Regardless it still proves the point. When sleazy salesmen flood the market and never stop pitching, it inflates the perceived value of anything they’re pitching to. Even if the attention is unwanted, the sheer volume of it creates a distorted sense of desirability. The quality of the attention doesn’t matter as much as the consistency of it.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 01:42 PM
3

Cool. Cheers the for the "debate"
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 01:40 PM
1

And yet the junker still gets sold, over and over again. That’s the point. When enough people are willing to chase and praise something, even if it’s low-quality, it creates the illusion that it’s high value. Doesn’t matter if the intention is manipulative the effect is still validation.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 01:34 PM
2

Right, but calling something “bullshit” doesn’t make it so. If you actually disagreed with the argument, you’d engage with the substance not just write it off as dangerous or dumb. That kind of hand-waving isn’t analysis, it’s deflection. If you think the take is flawed, prove it. Otherwise, you’re just noise.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 01:32 PM
2

First comment from a woman saying this. Cheers.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 01:31 PM
0

No but if every car salesman treated me like a luxury vehicle no matter what condition I was in, I might start to believe it. That’s the difference. When praise is constant and uncalled for, it starts to shape self-perception.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 01:30 PM
1

Based on Reddit being mostly white yeah. I am also mixed.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 01:29 PM
1

Because those women still exist in the same dating market. Men don’t suddenly raise their standards just because a woman isn’t online they’ve already been conditioned by constant exposure to the loudest, most attention-seeking types. That sets the tone for dating expectations across the board, whether someone participates in the culture or not.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 01:28 PM
2

I think comments like this miss the point entirely. This subreddit exists to analyse gender dynamics and cultural contradictions—so dismissing any critical post as “whining” just shows you’re not engaging in good faith. If that’s not your thing, feel free to move on. Also, I love the classic: “stop whining [debating] about gender dynamics… in a subreddit about debating gender dynamics.” comments. Cheers for your "contribution."
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 01:27 PM
-1

I’m not worried about them. I’m pointing out how their behaviour reflects a larger pattern that affects the dating pool as a whole. You don’t have to date them for their influence to be felt. That’s the point.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 01:03 PM
2

The volume may be small, but the impact isn’t.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 12:52 PM
1

Good. You can move on from this debate then.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 12:51 PM
-2

That’s true in economics not necessarily in dating. Being in high demand might reflect surface-level appeal, but it doesn’t automatically mean someone is emotionally healthy, relationship-ready, or a good long-term partner. A woman getting endless attention doesn’t mean she’s “high-value” in a romantic context—it just means a lot of men want to sleep with her. And that’s the core issue: conflating sexual demand with deeper value leads to mismatched expectations and inflated self-perception.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 12:49 PM
1

You're right that the attention isn't evenly distributed more conventionally attractive women get the bulk of it. But even average women get more attention than their male counterparts, especially online. And when attention comes easy, even if it's from men they don’t want, it still subtly reinforces the idea that they’re in demand. It’s not about guys obsessing over every woman it’s about the volume and consistency of low-effort, unfiltered attention. That’s what skews perceptions and inflates …
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 12:48 PM
1

Personally, I would have assumed this mostly white people. I felt that was pretty obvious, hence my question.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 12:46 PM
7

You’re not wrong that a lot of people chase clicks for money but let’s not pretend the validation and the profit aren’t linked. The reason influencer culture works is because attention feels like value, especially when it’s constant. That feedback loop affects how people especially younger women see themselves, even if they’re not consciously thinking “I want male validation.” And yeah, men do it too. But when men chase validation, they’re often mocked or ignored. When women chase it, it’s reinf…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 12:44 PM
2

Influencer culture, dating app behaviour, and social media are built on the currency of male attention. Not all women chase it, but plenty benefit from it and yes, some internalise it as validation, even subconsciously. It’s not that men are “incapable” of rejecting what they don’t want it’s that too many don’t, and that refusal to walk away from low-effort interactions is what keeps the whole cycle alive.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 12:43 PM
2

All good.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 12:15 PM
4

You’re reading more into it than what’s actually there. I never said women get big egos just for not sleeping with me I said some women develop inflated perceptions of their value because of relentless attention from men who offer it uncritically. That includes DMs, matches, stares, comments most of which come from guys they don’t even like, but it still reinforces the idea that they’re always in demand. And I agree not all men are quiet or desperate. But enough are to shape dating dynamics. Thi…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 12:06 PM
1

You’re right that attraction isn’t purely logical and yes, plenty of men get turned off by interest from someone they’re not into. But here’s the difference: that kind of attention doesn’t follow most men everywhere they go. For women, it’s constant, and when that attention is coming from all directions whether it’s desired or not it still reinforces a sense of desirability, even if it’s just in the background. I’m not saying every woman is walking around feeling superior, but some absolutely co…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 12:04 PM
1

You’re describing how some women think and that’s fair. But pretending that most women completely separate sexual attention from perceived value just isn’t honest. If that were true, we wouldn’t see people tying self-worth to likes, messages, compliments, or who’s “in their DMs.” That dynamic fuels a whole chunk of online culture. Also, it’s not about men projecting but bout what’s observable. Some women do equate constant attention with desirability, even if it's subconscious. You’re right that…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 11:56 AM
-2

Agreed, there are men with standards but that’s kind of the point. They're less visible because they’re not constantly online or chasing women who don’t meet their criteria. What most women see day to day on apps, in DMs, in public is the noisy, desperate subset. And that subset shapes perception. You're also right that insecurity drives a lot of this. But acknowledging that doesn’t mean we excuse it. My post isn’t just saying “stop being insecure” it’s pointing out how unchecked male behaviour …
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 11:54 AM
3

If it were mostly annoying, it wouldn’t be monetised, flaunted, or used as leverage in dating. Let's be real—women filter out the unwanted attention but still benefit from the volume of it. And no, I’m not saying all women are delusional. I’m saying constant male thirst enables delusion in some especially when they mistake being desired for being deeply valued.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 11:53 AM
-1

Fair point but i don't think it contradicts mine. If men’s low standards lower the bar for women’s effort, it’s not a stretch to say that same dynamic also fuels their inflated sense of value. Women aren’t delusional in a vacuum—they’re reacting to nonstop male validation, even when they’ve done nothing to earn it.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 11:52 AM
4

Yep
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 11:22 AM
1

Surprisingly?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 10:00 AM
18

Better that than someone who can’t handle a real answer and hides behind emojis when the truth hits too close. Keep laughing it's easier than thinking.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 09:58 AM
34

Love when women ask this like they’d actually take the answer seriously like they wouldn't mock, dismiss, or downplay it the second it doesn’t fit their narrative. The moment a man talks about the emotional damage caused by women, it’s either a joke, an eye-roll, or “we have it worse.” But we should care about your traumas/bad experiences? What a joke.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 09:54 AM
9

You're right shoplifting has tangible benefits to it 😆
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 09:52 AM
7

I made a post addressing female on male violence, and it's not so surprisingly full of angry women dismissing and downplaying it. They absolutely loathe any conversation that even slightly admits their shit stinks too.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 09:48 AM
12

Absolutely agree here This is the result of consistent messaging from authority figures, institutions, and media over formative years. If you repeatedly tell young men not to approach women, that doing so is intrusive or even threatening, then yeah, it’s not a mystery that many grow up internalising that. It’s social conditioning, plain and simple. This shouldn't be about blaming women or invalidating anyone’s experiences but about recognising how the cultural response, however well-intentioned,…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/25 09:47 AM
1

Thank you brother
/r/PurplePillDebate10/04/25 06:53 PM
1

Stop reading after the first statement. There's nothing else to debate. Bye.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/04/25 01:57 PM
1

You’re missing the point. Yes, statistically speaking, female abusers may be less common but calling them “atypical” isn’t being objective in this context, it’s being dismissive. It’s used as a rhetorical shield to avoid reckoning with their behaviour. We don’t call male abusers “atypical” because they’re the statistical majority but more importantly, we still hold them individually accountable regardless of that. That’s what’s missing when women are violent: people rush to soften, explain away,…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/04/25 11:03 AM
2

Calling these women “atypical” is a way to distance them from accountability. But when men act out violently, we don’t default to “oh, he’s not a typical guy” we hold him responsible and examine the cultural conditions around it. That’s the same standard I’m calling for here. Statistical majority doesn’t mean moral immunity. Just because something’s less common doesn’t mean it should be dismissed, laughed at, or downplayed especially when the victims are consistently ignored or ridiculed for spe…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/04/25 07:16 AM
1

We don't have anything to discuss here if you're so delusional that you genuinely think female on male abuse is some made-up thing. Cheers.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/04/25 07:15 AM
1

You’re comparing consensual, context-specific gestures between teammates to one-sided, performative aggression framed as “content.” That’s not camaraderie—it’s a cop-out. The difference is consent, intent, and power dynamic. Nobody’s calling a fist bump or chest bump abuse. We're talking about public humiliation or striking a partner in a way that would never be defended if the roles were reversed. Your attempt to paint this as me disrespecting “real” survivors is rich, considering you're the on…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/25 11:17 PM
1

Right and that framing made sense in the context of gender-based violence where women have historically been the primary victims. But the issue now is that this framing has become default, even when the roles are reversed. Saying “these aren’t typical women” is exactly the kind of distancing that lets abusive behaviour get excused or ignored. If a man lashes out, i dont think saying “he’s not a typical guy” is gonna go down well and for good reason. The point isn’t that women aren’t victims. It’…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/25 09:38 PM
1

This is so odd. Your over reliance on "algorithms" to dismiss the acceptance and existence of female on male abuse is truly bizarre. Worst part is that your logic doesn't hold up. Everything you're saying I could say the same about racism and never seeing racist videos, but I wouldn’t pretend that means racism isn’t an issue. What's your stance here/goal? Do you think what I'm saying doesn't exist? What I'm getting here is a woman who is uncomfortable with a conversation that inherently threaten…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/25 09:28 PM
1

Well said
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/25 09:17 PM
2

Completely agree. The stigma around advocating for male victims is one of the biggest barriers. The second someone brings it up, they’re either accused of derailing, being contrarian, or having some hidden agenda. And that shuts down so many people who actually do care and want to help, especially within progressive spaces that should be leading the charge on empathy and equality. And you're right. It’s not about forcing every feminist to take on every issue but we should at least create room fo…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/25 02:04 PM
3

You’re so sensitive that the first explanation you reach for is “TikTok brainrot” instead of actually engaging with the point. The idea that leniency toward female-on-male abuse is just an algorithmic illusion is wild and honestly says more about your denial than it does about me. The self-reporting in this thread is doing half the work for me. It's hilarious how averse some of you women are to acknowledging how your shit stinks too and how you benefit from patriarchy.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/25 02:01 PM
2

Ah, there it is—the classic minimising: “It’s just a prank,” “It’s for views,” “He can handle it,” “No bad intent.” That’s exactly the cultural blind spot I’m talking about. When a man does something similar, it’s not waved off as “dramatic” or “harmless content.” It’s instantly scrutinised, criticised, and often condemned regardless of context. But when a woman hits, slaps, or humiliates a man in a skit, vlog, or prank video, people rush to downplay it. “It’s just a bit,” “She didn’t mean it,” …
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/25 01:57 PM
3

Here's one I quickly find. Not abusive at all!: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNdNDMJFS/ And another: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNdNDr3v8/ I can link more if you like 😁
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/25 12:31 PM
3

I’d probably say the same thing if I had nothing intelligent or constructive to offer, too. If you’re that bothered by someone pointing out a real double standard, maybe it’s not them who’s too online its you who’s too uncomfortable to deal with reality.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/25 12:28 PM
3

If it don't apply let it fly 😁
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/25 12:25 PM
3

Pointing out a cultural blind spot is doing something. Talking about it is doing something. You don’t get to dismiss that just because it doesn’t look like activism you approve of. It's only people who are bothered by the topic of conversation that spout bs like this. And spare me the guilt trip about “taking it out on women.” Criticising how society reacts to female-perpetrated harm isn’t an attack it’s accountability. If you can’t tell the difference, maybe you’re part of the problem I’m descr…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/25 12:24 PM
3

You mock the effort, then claim we’re not making one. That’s the entire issue. When men raise valid concerns, they’re ridiculed, tone-policed, or told they’re not doing it “the right way.” Meanwhile, the people doing the mocking offer nothing but sarcasm and dismissal. If you're genuinely about solutions, start by listening instead of sneering. Change doesn't start with perfection.it starts with calling things out, even when people like you laugh instead of engage.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/25 12:08 PM
3

The point is that when women behave abusively especially in casual, public ways it’s often brushed off, laughed at, or framed as harmless. That reaction is what’s telling. You say “we shouldn’t judge people based on the worst of us,” but male behaviour is constantly judged that way by media, by institutions, by online discourse. So if you're fine throwing that lens on men, don’t flinch when the same scrutiny is turned around. If you claim to stand for equality, that standard goes both ways. http…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/25 12:06 PM
3

Nobody’s asking women to speak for men. What I’m saying is stop acting like male silence is just passivity, when it’s shaped by a culture that mocks them the moment they do speak. Yes, women faced resistance but they also gained solidarity, funding, and platforms. Men, especially when abused by women, still get met with disbelief or laughter. And let’s not pretend the ground was level. Society was already primed to care about female harm. It resisted, yes—but it didn’t ridicule in the same way. …
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/25 09:12 AM
3

We will word this however we like it and if women such as yourself are offended by it, that's just you telling us how hateful and toxic you are. We always appreciate the self report though.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/25 09:11 AM
3

You’re proving my point. When men speak up, they’re told how to speak, what to focus on, and how not to make anyone uncomfortable. That’s not support that’s tone policing. And yes, people are building safe spaces and resources for men, but cultural change requires conversation too. Calling out double standards isn’t "blablabla" it’s part of breaking the silence that makes those safe spaces necessary in the first place. If we can't even name the problem, we’re not solving anything.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/25 09:10 AM
1

The title’s worded that way because of the imbalance its not about ignoring female pain, it’s about how it’s often centered to the point where other forms of harm, especially male suffering, get sidelined or dismissed. My post isn’t saying female pain shouldn’t matter it’s saying it shouldn’t be the only pain we treat as urgent or culturally valid. So yeah, the wording is deliberate. It’s meant to highlight the blind spot, not shift the blame.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/25 09:09 AM
4

Good to see a woman saying this.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/25 09:08 AM
4

Another lazy point. Try again.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/25 09:07 AM
3

I’m not upset about pushback I’m calling out bad faith responses that twist the argument into something it never was. Criticism is fair game; misrepresenting what I said to avoid engaging with it isn’t. This post is about public accountability for public behaviour not silencing anyone, and definitely not shielding myself from critique. But if the best counter is to pretend this is just “criticising women online for no reason,” then you’re not debating you’re dodging.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/25 09:06 AM
3

This isn’t about asking feminists to “cater” to men it’s about applying the same values consistently. If a movement claims to care about equality, then male victims shouldn’t be treated like an afterthought just because they don’t fit the usual narrative. Pointing out that imbalance isn’t hostility it’s accountability. And if someone needs a reward to care about basic fairness, that kind of proves the point.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/25 09:05 AM
2

By that logic, I could say racism isn’t a real issue because I don’t see racist content on my feed. Would that suddenly make it invalid? Of course not. Just because you don’t see something doesn’t mean it’s not widespread or influential. Social media shapes public perception whether you want to admit it or not. Dismissing everything as “just TikTok” is lazy. You don’t get to pick and choose when it matters. I get this topic makes you guys uncomfortable but wow is this pathetic.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/25 09:04 AM
1

There we go.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/25 09:02 AM
3

Blaming algorithm is a weak argument. Let it go. There are smarter ways to dismiss what I'm saying because it makes you uncomfortable.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/25 09:02 AM
2

Yep its not new. What has changed is how society frames it. The focus on female pain has been essential and overdue, but when that becomes the dominant lens, it can overshadow harm that doesn’t fit that narrative. The issue isn’t that the spotlight exists it’s that there hasn’t been much effort to widen it. Acknowledging male victims more openly doesn’t take anything away from female ones. It just makes the picture more honest.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/25 09:00 AM
6

Well said.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/25 08:57 AM
3

Typical to be honest.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/25 08:57 AM
5

I get where you’re coming from and you’re right that the roots of this issue go deeper than modern activism. But when I said “as a result,” I wasn’t blaming the push for female victims’ rights. I was pointing out an unintended consequence of how certain narratives have been amplified while others were neglected. The cultural blind spot around male victims didn’t start with feminism but some extreme voices, left unchecked, have made it harder to talk about harm when it doesn’t fit the usual scrip…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/25 08:56 AM
3

Really sorry to hear that. This is why this topic needs to be talked about so much.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/25 08:55 AM
8

Appreciate the passion, but your entire reply is built on a strawman of a post you admittedly didn’t read properly. First off, nowhere did I say patriarchy was “better for women.” That’s either bad faith or you projecting. The post literally says patriarchy hurts everyone, including male victims. That’s not blame-shifting it’s recognising a shared systemic issue that affects both genders differently. Second, I never excused male responsibility. I called out a cultural blind spot where female-per…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/04/25 06:03 PM
7

This is exactly the kind of selective framing that keeps the cycle going. You say men don’t take harm against themselves seriously but maybe ask why that is. It’s not because men don’t care. It’s because when they do speak up, they’re mocked, doubted, or treated like they’re weak. And that reaction often comes from both men and women. You’re giving all the credit to women for taking abuse seriously, but ignore that they had cultural backing, sympathy, and systems that evolved to support them eve…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/04/25 06:00 PM
10

“Doesn’t show up on my feed” isn’t a counter-argument it’s anecdotal and irrelevant. The fact you personally haven’t seen it doesn’t erase how common this content is or how popular it clearly is to others. Algorithms reflect what performs well across a platform, not just what you’ve clicked on. If anything, your lack of exposure proves the point: people only seem to take it seriously when it’s everywhere for them but when male harm is normalised or brushed off, it’s easy to miss because nobody l…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/04/25 05:58 PM
5

Sure individuals support who they want to. But culture isn’t just a sum of personal intentions, it’s shaped by patterns, media narratives, institutions, and public attitudes over time. When male suffering is routinely ignored or mocked especially in relational or domestic contexts that is culture at work, even if no one voted for it. I’m not denying that some people support men or that there aren’t great examples like your outreach work. That’s important. But this post is talking about the broad…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/04/25 05:54 PM
14

Sure individuals support who they want to. But culture isn’t just a sum of personal intentions, it’s shaped by patterns, media narratives, institutions, and public attitudes over time. When male suffering is routinely ignored or mocked especially in relational or domestic contexts that is culture at work, even if no one voted for it. I’m not denying that some people support men or that there aren’t great examples like your outreach work. That’s important. But this post is talking about the broad…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/04/25 05:54 PM
10

Appreciate that you acknowledge women can perpetuate patriarchy but you can’t have it both ways. You admit the system still treats women as default victims and men as emotionless tanks, yet somehow claim centering female pain isn’t part of the problem? You’re right that patriarchy is the root—but when mainstream narratives only uplift female victims while ignoring or mocking male ones, that selective framing becomes part of the machinery too. “Didn’t read the full post” says a lot, because if yo…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/04/25 05:51 PM
7

But that’s the thing these videos aren’t framed as abuse. They’re usually casual vlogs, pranks, or “couple content” where a woman hits, screams at, or humiliates her partner and it’s all treated like harmless entertainment. That’s exactly the problem. It’s not just what’s happening it’s how normalized and unserious it’s made to look. So no, this isn’t just an “algorithm” issue. If these videos perform well enough to keep showing up, that reflects audience engagement. People watch, like, and shar…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/04/25 05:48 PM
8

I'm a bit confused. I’m not sure how this ties into white supremacy or institutional racism
/r/PurplePillDebate08/04/25 05:44 PM
8

Yes, some women face disbelief when speaking out but the default narrative still supports them. We have hashtags, public campaigns, mainstream support structures, and institutional language that centres their pain (Duluth model). Male victims don’t have that. The mockery and apathy they face isn’t occasional it’s standard. And no saying “it has to start with men” just punts the responsibility elsewhere. Imagine if people told women during the #MeToo movement, “Well, until you stop romanticising …
/r/PurplePillDebate08/04/25 05:14 PM
8

What you’re describing isn’t accountability it’s misogyny, double standards, and societal policing of women’s choices, which feminism rightly fights against. That’s not the same as being held accountable for how you treat other people especially men. My post isn’t about calling women ugly or telling them to stay in the kitchen. It’s about how society often refuses to hold women accountable when they cause harm. Not personal choices, not how they dress actual harm to others. The fact that you're …
/r/PurplePillDebate08/04/25 05:10 PM
15

Saying “women get called out too” doesn’t disprove anything it actually highlights the imbalance. When women face criticism, it’s often met with outrage, defence, or reframed as misogyny. When men speak about their abuse, it’s met with disbelief, mockery, or apathy. That’s the difference. And sure, you can say you condemn female violence but if your takeaway is “nothing’s going to change anyway,” that’s just passive resignation. It’s not enough to personally disagree with a broken attitude while…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/04/25 04:48 PM
9

Right, because if you see a pattern of bad behaviour, the issue isn’t the behaviour it’s your algorithm. That’s a convenient way to dodge the conversation entirely. It’s not “falling for rage bait” to notice something that happens often enough to feel normalised, especially when the response to it is laughter or silence. If anything, the fact these videos perform well says something about the audience too it’s not just the algorithm, it’s the culture that finds this stuff entertaining or harmles…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/04/25 04:46 PM
9

Hilarious bait. Predictably unintelligent.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/04/25 04:45 PM
5

Sure, people are dangerous. That’s not in dispute. But saying “everyone can be violent” is a convenient way to dodge the specific issue: society doesn’t treat male and female violence the same. When a man hits a woman, it’s (rightfully) condemned. When a woman hits a man especially in public or on camera it’s joked about, excused, or ignored. That’s the double standard. The “women are also people” line is only ever pulled out when it’s time to diffuse accountability, not when it’s time to apply …
/r/PurplePillDebate08/04/25 04:45 PM
20

You realise how messed up that is, right? You’re just openly saying it doesn’t matter unless it fits your idea of serious. That’s exactly the problem. Abuse isn’t only valid when it’s sexual or parental. Emotional abuse, psychological control, public humiliation, and yes even physical violence from women can leave real, lasting damage. Downplaying it just because it doesn’t fit a certain mould is how victims fall through the cracks. This kind of selective empathy is why male victims stay silent.…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/04/25 04:41 PM
12

That’s a dishonest read, and if you actually cared about the conversation, you’d know it. The post never said women shouldn’t talk about their problems or that women should “stay silent.” It said everyone men and women should be open to criticism when valid and fair. The point was that men are constantly broken down, critiqued, and psychoanalysed in media and culture and they’re expected to take it. But when women face even light scrutiny, suddenly it’s sexism or “misogyny.” The “pushback” comme…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/04/25 04:40 PM
17

No, “centering female pain” doesn’t mean simply talking about hardships women face. It means building a cultural narrative where female suffering is consistently prioritised, believed, and validated while male suffering is downplayed, joked about, or ignored. That’s the imbalance being highlighted. And nobody here is barging into a conversation about a woman’s trauma and shouting, “But what about men?” This post wasn’t a reply to someone else’s pain it’s its own conversation, about a blind spot …
/r/PurplePillDebate08/04/25 04:38 PM
11

“If it’s a relationship just leave” is such a lazy take. People say the same thing to women in abusive relationships, and rightly get called out for lacking empathy or understanding of how abuse works. But when it’s a man, suddenly that logic’s acceptable? Abuse isn’t just about bruises it’s about control, manipulation, and fear. And men, just like women, can be psychologically worn down, isolated, and gaslit into staying. On top of that, men are less likely to be believed if they speak up, and …
/r/PurplePillDebate08/04/25 04:35 PM
2

Well said.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/04/25 05:38 AM
1

It's usually cringe red pillers. Can't stand them.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/04/25 05:37 AM
3

Can the reason just be you didn't feel like it/didn't want to/had other priorities?
/r/PurplePillDebate07/04/25 08:14 PM
2

Grass is green
/r/PurplePillDebate07/04/25 01:27 PM
3

At most you'll get a police call. I'm not risking getting stabbed for you.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/04/25 01:24 PM
2

Incorrect
/r/PurplePillDebate07/04/25 01:22 PM
1

Valid
/r/PurplePillDebate07/04/25 01:21 PM
1

I'm not a woman, and those power structures are harmful.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/04/25 01:07 AM
1

Exactly and that’s part of the problem. When men feel entitled to express attraction with zero filter or purpose, it stops being confidence and starts being noise. Whether it’s about approval or control, the outcome’s the same: cheap attention no one respects and that can often turn into harassment. A line must be drawn.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/04/25 12:34 AM
0

If it were really about self-expression, men wouldn’t crumble when that attention gets ignored. Let’s be real—most of it isn’t about expressing something for yourself, it’s about hoping for a response. That’s not self-expression, it’s approval-seeking dressed up as honesty. This is my post. You don't get it.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/04/25 12:30 AM
2

No one said all compliments mean you lack self-respect. The point is when it’s compulsive, unfiltered, and purely driven by attraction, it stops being thoughtful and starts being performative. That’s not confidence—it’s validation-seeking Why you as a woman are trying to argue this is baffling. I get the urge to blindly argue as is the Reddit way but actually think about what I'm saying. Advocating for men to be sexually disciplined and not smother women with validation is a GOOD thing.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 11:19 PM
1

There we go we agree.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 11:18 PM
1

Nah, I just don’t think basic physical attraction deserves a standing ovation. If your bar for giving out praise is ‘she exists and I’m attracted,’ that’s not generosity—it’s low standards. And it’s exactly why male attention is an inconvenience to a lot of women and not wanted. Too much of it.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 10:12 PM
2

You’re confusing discipline with bitterness. This isn’t about ‘withholding affection’ out of spite it’s about not giving it away reflexively out of neediness. And framing a call for self-respect as ‘unnatural weirdness’ says more about how normalised desperation has become than anything I’ve said
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 10:10 PM
1

That’s a wild projection. Telling men to stop tripping over themselves for every attractive woman isn’t about control—it’s about self-respect. If you think discipline and standards are a tactic to manipulate women, maybe ask why male restraint feels threatening to you
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 08:35 PM
1

No, it means don’t hand out praise just because someone’s attractive. ‘Earning it’ means showing basic qualities like kindness, effort, personality that go beyond looks. If you’re giving compliments just because someone exists, that’s not connection—it’s desperation
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 08:30 PM
2

If you see basic discipline as intrasexual competition, you’ve already told on yourself.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 08:29 PM
2

It went over your head. It happens!
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 05:58 PM
2

"Worked up". Come on its a basic reddit post (far from my best work). Be honest. You had nothing constructive or intelligent to say and it shows. Sorry if my post bothered you in any way!
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 05:54 PM
1

It’s not judging all female behaviour it’s pointing out how men’s behaviour collectively shapes how women respond. If you can’t tell the difference between describing a pattern and blaming a gender, you’re not reading in good faith.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 05:53 PM
1

Yes. I am bothered by the countless men whose thirst for women borders on obsession and turns to harassment. What I'm discouraging and calling out benefits women too. You have no basis here to argue with me unless you're just bored.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 05:52 PM
1

What I'm discouraging indirectly discourages that behaviour as well. There's no argument to be hard here we agree...
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 05:49 PM
3

It's ok you're a woman and don't get it.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 05:42 PM
1

It will because it's the first step as they don't see what their doing as wrong. That needs to be established first.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 05:10 PM
1

Ever sadder.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 05:07 PM
1

Well at some point they'll have to change if they want their outcomes to change so it doesn't matter.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 05:03 PM
1

Well said.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 04:53 PM
2

Oh they're definitely listening. They're all over this comment section in their feelings.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 04:50 PM
2

Yep. It's ridiculous but not surprising.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 04:48 PM
1

The problem isn’t women receiving it, it’s men giving it out willy nilly.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 04:48 PM
7

I'd argue they have just not in ways that benefit us.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 04:45 PM
2

Simple: have standards. Don’t give out attention just because someone’s attractive. Compliment when it’s genuine, not when it’s driven by thirst. Learn to pause and ask, ‘What has this person actually done to earn my time, energy, or interest?’ As for motivation it has to come from self-respect. Men need to stop seeing women’s approval as the measure of their worth. Once you stop chasing validation and start acting like your attention has value, your behaviour changes naturally. You don’t need g…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 04:29 PM
2

That’s exactly why I wrote the post. I’m not defending the 99% of male attention you’re describing I’m calling it out. When men lack discipline and hand out sexualised attention to anyone they find attractive, it becomes intrusive and meaningless. That’s not validation, it’s desperation, and it harms both men and women. If more men actually developed self-respect, standards, and could interact platonically instead of constantly performing thirst, women wouldn’t be so exhausted by male attention …
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 04:28 PM
7

It leads to men chasing anything that moves, offering attention with no standards, and treating women like sex dispensers. That doesn’t help men, and it doesn’t help women. You think women benefit from a dating culture full of low-effort, approval-starved men? It cheapens male attention, erodes healthy dynamics, and trains women to expect praise just for existing. Drawing a line is necessary for both sides. Sexual discipline protects men from emotional dependency and desperation, and it protects…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 04:26 PM
8

Im not concerned how women respond but that too many men overvalue women and undervalue themselves. They hand out attention with zero standards, not because they’re being honest, but because they’re desperate for approval. That’s not confidence—it’s a lack of sexual discipline
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 04:14 PM
2

Not sure what you're claiming I said is "false" And sure, men have always been the more proactive sex but being proactive isn’t the same as being desperate. There’s a difference between intentional courting and throwing validation at anyone who looks good. That lack of sexual discipline is exactly what I’m calling out. And yeah, social isolation plays a role, but that doesn’t mean the answer is doubling down on low-effort attention
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 04:06 PM
5

Only way way forward at this point. Messages like this just get certain users emotional because I've indirectly targeted them.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 04:04 PM
2

Fair enough. If you don’t think us men have a big problem pedestalising women then we’re clearly working from different realities. No point debating something you don’t see as a problem. Cheers
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 03:55 PM
8

Exactly which is why it matters how you present yourself. If you treat your own attention like it’s worthless, don’t be surprised when others do too
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 03:46 PM
3

Sure, sex is a factor but the need for validation runs deeper. A lot of men aren’t just chasing sex, they’re chasing approval. That’s where it stops being just biology and starts becoming insecurity
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 03:44 PM
6

You’re confusing observation with control. I’m not assigning motives. I’m encouraging reflection. If someone’s actions get the same results over and over, it’s reasonable to ask if the approach is working. That’s not judgment it’s basic pattern recognition
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 03:42 PM
6

You’re describing thoughtful compliments—those aren’t the issue. My post is about men flooding women with generic attention out of habit, not sincerity. If you compliment someone because you genuinely notice something, great. But if it’s reflexive and constant, it stops being meaningful. That’s the difference.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 03:40 PM
5

That’s exactly the point men shouldn’t flood strangers with constant praise. It’s not meaningful, it’s not respected, and it often comes off as intrusive. I’m not defending that behaviour I’m calling it out. You’re arguing against the very thing I said needs to stop.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 03:39 PM
2

Exactly
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 03:38 PM
5

Fair. Social compliments have their place, especially when they come from a genuine, intentional place like you described. The issue I’m calling out is when validation becomes reflexive in a way that devalues both the person giving it and the one receiving it. Intent matters.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 03:37 PM
3

The goal isn’t to be rewarded for compliments it’s to stop giving them out mindlessly. If validation is constant and unearned, it stops meaning anything. That’s not strategy, it’s common sense
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 03:35 PM
7

Being replaceable isn’t the same as acting like you don’t have value. Evolution isn’t an excuse to abandon self-respect.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 03:34 PM
7

You’re twisting a personal standard into a commandment. No one’s claiming authority over anyone. But if a guy constantly gives attention that gets ignored or disrespected, then yeah it’s worth asking why he keeps doing it. That’s not control, it’s self-awareness.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 03:34 PM
7

That’s fair and actually supports what I’m saying. When compliments are thoughtful and specific, they stand out. When they’re generic and constant, they feel lazy or shallow. That’s the difference between sincerity and autopilot validation.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 03:33 PM
5

Their tone isn't reflective of someone who wants a constructive debate so I'm not sure what's wrong with my comment.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 03:32 PM
11

Calling out patterns of behaviour isn’t the same as demanding to be wanted. If you can’t tell the difference, you’re not arguing in good faith.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 02:43 PM
0

Improving the quality of men and being more selective with attention aren’t mutually exclusive they go hand in hand. If men level up but still hand out attention like candy, the signal still gets lost in the noise. Value isn’t just about who you are, it’s also about how you present yourself.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 02:43 PM
3

No one’s deciding for anyone. The whole point is that you should set your own standards. If you want to hand out attention freely, fine but don’t complain when it’s taken for granted. That’s the trade-off Something tells me you felt targeted by my post. You're way to defensive.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 02:41 PM
6

No one said finding someone attractive gives you the right to access anything. The point is that unsolicited praise especially when constant loses all meaning. It’s not about expecting women to appreciate it. It’s about men recognising when they’re giving it away at their own expense.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 02:40 PM
1

Agreed. Simping isn’t exclusive to men, but the form it takes matters. When male attention is overgiven and undervalued, it reshapes dating dynamics in ways that hit men hardest. Recognising the pedestal effect is the first step to undoing it for everyone
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 02:39 PM
2

Fair point. Material conditions definitely shape dating behaviours. But that doesn’t cancel out the need for individual accountability. If men’s default response to worsening conditions is to lower their standards further, that’s not adaptive—it’s self-sabotage. Culture may be downstream, but behaviour still matters.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 02:37 PM
3

It’s not about suppressing how you feel but about asking why you feel the need to express it to someone who hasn’t earned it. If your praise is on autopilot, that’s not sincerity, it’s insecurity.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 02:35 PM
2

Yeah, all of this tracks. Biology and social pressure both push men toward over-validating women but that’s why reframing male attention as something selective and intentional is so important. Just because it’s hard doesn’t mean it’s not worth doing. There is no way we can keep going on like this. It's not sustainable, in my opinion.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 02:34 PM
4

Agreed. Nobody owes anyone anything. That’s exactly why men need to stop handing out attention like it’s free samples. If it’s not appreciated (which it often isn't and for good reason), stop giving it.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 02:10 PM
8

These guys have no real purpose beyond simping for women. When you've put them on a pedestal this high, life feels empty without one. It’s pathetic, and no matter how much you call it out, it never seems to sink in. The mental dependence on women is weirdly comfortable for them and honestly, it’s disturbing.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 07:52 AM
0

The entire existence of r/MensLib is pretty much that.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/25 07:39 AM
6

I agree, supporting each other is exactly what we need more of. That said, what you described kind of proves my point: I have to perform my sensitivity or empathy for people to even know I’m not one of the “bad guys.” That’s a lot of pressure to carry to constantly prove you’re different from the worst examples of your gender just to be treated with basic goodwill. It’s great that people like you do recognise nuance. But culturally, the default lens on men is still tinted by suspicion and that’s…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/25 03:05 PM
7

I’m not demanding anything unreasonable certainly not asking women to ignore risk or stop protecting themselves. Caution is necessary. Awareness is necessary. But there’s a line between being cautious and treating all men like a threat by default. You say the cost to men is a bruised ego but it’s not about ego. It’s about constantly being treated with suspicion or disdain, regardless of behaviour. That doesn’t create safety — it creates division and distrust. You can be alert without being hosti…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/25 03:03 PM
2

I’m not denying any of what you said. Those examples are real, horrifying, and they absolutely deserve outrage, accountability, and action. I’m not here to defend abusers, harassers, or rapists and I never was. What I am pushing back on is the jump from condemning those specific actions to generalising about men as a group assuming that maleness itself is something to fear or despise. That's not justice it's displacement. Caution is valid. Generalised contempt is not. We don’t build a better cul…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/25 02:56 PM
12

You’re right that the kind of misandry I’m referring to isn’t institutional in the way misogyny historically has been. I’m not arguing that men face policy-level discrimination or exclusion from power structures I’m arguing that social narratives, especially online and in modern discourse, have made it increasingly acceptable to generalise or belittle men in ways that would be called out instantly if directed at women. And while the impact may not be systemic, that doesn’t mean it’s insignifican…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/25 02:54 PM
6

Sure, no one’s entitled to be heard without mockery but if your first instinct is to mock rather than engage, you're not having a conversation. You’re shutting one down. As for moral high ground you’re claiming it the moment you laugh at people for speaking up, while pretending that only one side deserves to be taken seriously. That’s not debate. That’s deflection.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/25 02:50 PM
2

I get the analogy, but the problem is that when you frame it like that — bricks vs. sand — you’re still justifying one form of hostility because it seems lesser by comparison. That’s the exact dynamic I’m talking about: if it’s not severe or systemic, we brush it off as harmless or deserved. But hostility is hostility and when it becomes socially acceptable in any form, it doesn’t just stay “sand.” It builds resentment, erodes empathy, and shuts down honest dialogue. If we’re serious about break…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/25 02:49 PM
2

Right
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/25 02:47 PM
28

"Men control the world" is a broad statement that doesn’t reflect most men’s lived reality. Most men don’t have power politically, socially, or economically. And dismissing their pain by pointing to elites at the top doesn’t help build the empathy you’re asking for. If women want men to be emotionally open, but only when that emotion aligns with what they want to hear, that’s not emotional acceptance that’s selective validation. Real equality involves listening, not just being listened to.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/25 02:47 PM
10

Being allowed to speak isn’t the same as being heard without mockery or bad-faith dismissal which you’re kind of proving right now. If the idea is that only one side gets to advocate for themselves without ridicule, that’s not progress it’s gatekeeping. You don’t get to claim moral high ground while laughing at people for trying to address issues that affect them.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/25 02:30 PM
13

Because when broad, negative narratives about men are normalised even if they’re “not about me personally” they still shape how people see me, talk to me, and treat me. No one wants to live in a culture where they’re constantly assumed guilty until proven otherwise, or where their identity is tied to the worst examples of their gender. Being a “good guy” doesn’t shield you from the impact of that. It just makes you more aware of how unfair and counterproductive it is.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/25 02:29 PM
7

Right and that’s what I’m getting at as well. Misandry is often invisible because it’s filtered through comparison. If it doesn’t look like historical misogyny if it’s not systemic or violent people think it doesn’t count. But harm doesn’t need to mirror someone else’s to be real and when we become desensitised to certain kinds of gendered hostility especially when it’s aimed at men we start normalising it instead of addressing it. That’s the cycle that needs to break.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/25 02:27 PM
2

I’ve seen plenty of that behaviour and I agree, it’s gross, immature, and deserves to be called out. But pointing to the worst corners of male spaces and using them to judge all men is exactly what I’m pushing back on. Most men don’t talk like that. Most men aren’t on PUA subs, rating women like property, or making those kinds of vile claims. The ones who do? Criticise them. Expose them. Reject them. I’m all for that. But when that criticism turns into collective guilt — assuming that maleness i…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/25 02:25 PM
8

Not sure what point you’re actually trying to make here but reducing male concerns to “dry dicks” kind of proves mine. This is exactly the attitude that makes men feel like they can’t talk about anything real without being mocked or dismissed.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/25 02:12 PM
6

Yeah, the revanchism angle nails it a lot of men today are being treated like stand-ins for the sins of others, and that kind of collective blame breeds nothing but resentment. And you’re right, there’s a weird cultural double standard forming. One form of power is celebrated, the other is demonised even when both are tied to survival or societal roles. If we keep pushing men into duty while shaming the traits that come with it, something’s going to give. This kind of imbalance isn’t sustainable…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/25 02:11 PM
7

You see it every time gender-related issues come up. The hostility, defensiveness, and inability to have honest conversations without someone getting shut down or dismissed? That is the divide. So in that context, it’s very real.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/25 02:08 PM
5

Well said.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/25 02:06 PM
2

Some have, sure. But not all. That’s the point. Holding individual men accountable for their actions is one thing holding all men collectively responsible just for existing in a system they didn’t create is something else entirely. You can acknowledge problems in male behaviour without assuming guilt by association. That distinction matters if the goal is real change and not just scapegoating.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/25 02:04 PM
4

I agree that misogyny has been historically systemic in ways misandry hasn’t. No question there. But the problem with constantly comparing scales of suffering is that it ends up being used to justify or ignore certain kinds of harm especially when they’re directed at men. You're right that misandry and misogyny don’t look the same. But that’s why misandry slips under the radar. It’s not about laws or ownership anymore it’s about social narratives, media portrayals, emotional invalidation, and gu…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/25 02:02 PM
4

Totally agree with having standards that’s solid advice for anyone. But this post isn’t about whether I choose to date or befriend misandrists. It’s about how misandry is socially tolerated sometimes even encouraged in a way that misogyny isn’t. If a man says something hateful about women, people speak up or are at least EXPECTED to. If a woman says something hateful about men, it’s often dismissed as justified frustration. That’s the gap I’m talking about not who we should date, but the double …
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/25 01:59 PM
9

By that logic: “I don’t think men who are misogynist are misogynist because of history. It’s largely because of current misandry. And I also don’t think all critique of female behaviour is misogyny.” If a man said that, it’d be seen as deflection at best, hate at worst. And rightly so. So why is the same logic accepted or even praised when the roles are reversed?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/25 01:57 PM
2

Totally agree that both misandry and misogyny are toxic and I’m not trying to argue they’re equal in impact or history. Violence against women is absolutely real, serious, and deserves constant attention. But here's the thing: misandry doesn't need to match misogyny in violence to still do damage. Dismissing men’s experiences, mocking male pain, or generalising all men as threats that creates emotional distance and resentment. It doesn’t make women safer, it just makes men feel unheard. We can a…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/25 01:55 PM
19

I’ll break it down as clearly as I can: By misandry, I’m not talking about policy-level oppression I’m talking about socially accepted hostility toward men as a group. Things like mocking male vulnerability, generalising all men as dangerous, or treating male discomfort as irrelevant or deserved. It’s not the same as criticism of harmful behaviour I’m fully on board with calling that out. But when that criticism turns into collective blame, it stops being productive. The distinction between misa…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/25 01:54 PM
3

Yep. Once victimhood becomes a tool for power, there’s no real end to it because the goalpost keeps shifting. And honestly, a lot of men don’t buy into the guilt narrative, but they’re just not vocal about it. Doesn’t mean they’re okay with it just means they’re opting out of a conversation that feels rigged.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/25 01:52 PM
30

Well said. When one side claims all the victimhood and none of the power they've held even passively it skews the whole conversation. Men aren't reacting out of nowhere. If our pain keeps being ignored or blamed back on us, resentment is inevitable. You can’t build empathy by pretending only one side has struggled.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/25 01:50 PM
25

Exactly. When guilt becomes a tool for control, it stops being about growth and starts being about power. And yeah, a lot of men do feel taken advantage of but know they’ll be labelled the problem if they speak up so they don’t. That silence isn’t agreement, it’s quiet disengagement.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/25 01:48 PM
1

You're making my point for me. The fact that red pill has no structure, no standard, and no clear principles is exactly why it morphs into whatever the loudest voices in the room push usually fear, distrust, and reactionary takes on women. You say it's important because it counters mainstream narratives. Fine but replacing one caricature with another isn’t balance, it's just flipping the polarity. Assuming betrayal and manipulation as the default female behaviour isn’t awareness, it’s projection…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/03/25 10:20 AM
2

That’s exactly the problem when an ideology can mean everything, it ends up standing for nothing. You say red pill isn’t a worldview, just a dating strategy, yet it routinely gets treated like a lens through which to view gender dynamics, self-worth, and personal development. That’s not just a strategy that’s a philosophy a poor one at that. And let’s not pretend the lines are clean. Red pill spaces overwhelmingly prioritise content on women, dating dynamics, sexual access, and ‘frameworks’ buil…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/03/25 08:19 AM
3

Then great no one said women can’t be part of that life. The point is that they’re not the foundation of it. Wanting meaningful relationships isn’t the issue it’s building your entire identity around chasing them that leads to dysfunction. When you're grounded in your own purpose first, any connection you build—romantic or otherwise—is healthier, more intentional, and far less desperate. That’s the whole point.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/03/25 08:11 AM
4

They try and convince each other of the same shared delusion. It's sad.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/25 06:19 PM
–

Not a counterpoint just a personal anecdote dressed up as a universal rule. You pursued the wrong person and it didn’t work out. Fair enough. That doesn’t mean initiative itself is flawed it means your choice was. Bad outcomes don’t invalidate the concept, they just highlight the need for better boundaries, standards, and follow-through. Plenty of people get burned being passive too. That doesn’t mean passivity is a bad strategy for everyone, just that no approach is immune to poor judgment. So …
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/25 06:08 PM
–

You just reinforced what I’m saying: if effort is the first filter, why only test for it after someone else initiates? That’s still outsourcing the entire start of the interaction to men. If someone has to make the first move to even be tested, you're not filtering you’re reacting. That’s the difference. Being proactive doesn’t mean chasing low-effort people. It means expanding your options beyond whoever happens to show up. If the current method keeps leading to the same complaints, maybe it’s …
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/25 06:07 PM
–

You’re preaching “mutuality” like it’s some big mic drop, but that’s exactly what I’ve been advocating the entire time shared effort, shared risk, shared initiation. What I’m critiquing is the pattern where initiative is only expected from men, while women wait, filter, and still expect premium outcomes. And yeah, some men are indiscriminate. That’s not news. But somehow, those same men still end up getting attention because passive strategies don’t weed them out they invite them. That’s the iro…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/25 06:05 PM
–

True, there are issues in modern dating and yes, both men and women are checking out. That’s part of the bigger conversation. But my point was just that one woman being single at 30 doesn’t automatically signal a crisis. Some are opting out, sure but that’s not always the same as being left behind.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/25 05:42 PM
2

Because the tone of your reply didn’t read like genuine support it read like a backhanded warning wrapped in politeness. The whole 'good luck, just don’t turn into MGTOW' bit is a familiar pattern. It’s not neutral encouragement it’s a subtle jab dressed up as concern. And that’s exactly the kind of passive-aggressive response I was calling out. If it wasn’t meant that way, fair enough but maybe ask yourself why it came across like that to more than just me.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/25 05:37 PM
–

Well said.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/25 05:31 PM
–

Very rare.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/25 05:31 PM
–

It’s not about “caring so much” or feeling entitled as it is an observation about a pattern that affects the broader dating discourse, especially when that pattern fuels constant public complaints. If someone repeatedly broadcasts dissatisfaction with results, it’s fair to point out the role their own strategy might be playing. That’s not entitlement it’s accountability. Also, “women are constantly approaching men” is just not supported by the data. Approaching rarely happens unless the guy is a…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/25 05:30 PM
3

Agreed
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/25 05:28 PM
–

Which proves the point more than it refutes it. If effort only kicks in after a guy has already shown interest, already created momentum, and already passed her internal checklist, then it’s not really initiative it’s conditional participation. That’s not the same as what’s expected of men, who often have to act before any signs of reciprocation, and often without knowing whether that “spark” will even exist. Saying women do more once they’re already sold on a guy doesn’t counter the argument it…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/25 05:28 PM
2

Red pill CLAIMS to promote self-focus, but in practice, it’s constantly framed around reacting to women what they want, how to attract them, how to ‘navigate female nature.’ That’s not self-development, that’s obsession with external validation. If the core message really was about focusing on yourself, posts like this wouldn’t get the usual backlash from red pill types. You can’t preach abundance while centring your entire worldview around sexual strategy and control.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/25 05:26 PM
–

Clearly you've had enough. Just to clarify, though, my point wasn’t that women must approach it was about the patterns behind the frustration. If the common complaint is about quality, then passivity limits your options by design. That’s not a dig, just an observation. Take care.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/25 05:25 PM
8

That’s a wild leap from what I actually said. I never called anyone a ‘sarcastic bitch’—I pointed out a tone that’s become very common whenever men talk about genuinely walking away from validation-seeking behaviour. If your reaction to that is this level of emotional projection, it kind of proves the point. The post encourages men to live for themselves, and somehow even that triggers defensiveness. Maybe ask why that is before putting words in my mouth.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 04:50 PM
6

But that is what the red pill encourages—by design or by consequence. You can’t separate a belief system from the consistent psychological outcomes it produces in its followers. If large numbers of men engage with red pill content and end up more insecure, resentful, and obsessed with competition, then something in the messaging is driving that. You say you only care about what red pill 'actually encourages' but in practice, if the result is widespread anxiety and fixation on status, then the id…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 04:43 PM
1

I'm not American so the "free country" claim means nothing to me, and this isn’t about rights or legality. No one’s saying people can’t complain. The question is whether those complaints hold weight when someone has actively opted out of any active participation Also, telling me I’m “free to stop listening” is redundant. I'm just responding to a pattern, not chasing individuals around demanding they stop. Pointing out contradictions in widely shared mindsets or behaviours is a valid observation …
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 04:42 PM
1

No one’s denying that relationships can be meaningful what I’m challenging is the idea that they have to be the centre of a man’s identity. Saying men should stop chasing connection from a place of lack isn’t the same as saying 'cut off your social life.' It’s about building a life that isn’t defined by whether or not you’re chosen. And while I get the point about most people wanting family, you're assuming that fulfillment only looks one way. That belief is exactly what keeps some men trapped i…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 04:33 PM
3

You're conflating goal-oriented self-improvement with the anxiety-driven behaviours that red pill spaces routinely promote. This isn’t just speculation—it’s been analysed in academic research. A 2023 study titled 'Swallowing and spitting out the red pill: young men, vulnerability...' found that red pill spaces often draw in vulnerable young men and funnel their insecurities into resentment toward women and sexually successful men. The result? A scarcity mindset rooted in fear, not abundance. Eve…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 04:25 PM
4

Red pill claims to preach abundance, but its entire ecosystem thrives on amplifying male insecurity. If you truly believed in abundance, you wouldn’t need endless content obsessing over 'female nature,' hypergamy, and how to maximise your chances with women like it’s a strategy game. The tone is clear: women are a prize, and men are in constant competition to win. I don’t need a quote from r/TheRedPill (didn't even know it still exists) you just need to scroll through the daily posts on reddit d…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 03:45 PM
1

You're not filtering—you’re just outsourcing the entire screening process to men and calling it strategy. Putting up a filter after someone approaches isn’t the same as being intentional about who you engage with in the first place. You’re still relying on men to make the first move, which means the pool you’re filtering from is based on who chose you, not who you chose. That’s not agency—it’s passive curation. And no, desirable men aren’t attracted to one-sided expectations masked as "reality."…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 03:40 PM
9

I will always find it funny how a post encouraging men to live more intentionally always triggers this kind of gritted-teeth passive aggressive support from some women. No need to sarcastically warn us not to become MGTOW caricatures.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 03:33 PM
6

That’s not virtue signaling—it’s a mindset shift. No one’s saying ‘don’t date ever.’ The point is to stop treating relationships as the centrepiece of your life or self-worth. Like you said focus on your career, build something fulfilling, live with purpose. That is what decentring looks like. It's not about rejecting connection. but about not chasing it from a place of lack.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 03:28 PM
19

That’s exactly why it matters because too many men build their identity around chasing something they feel excluded from. Decentring relationships isn’t about pretending you had options, it’s about refusing to let the lack of them define your worth. You don’t need to be ‘allowed in’ to stop orbiting around it. That’s the whole point—reclaiming your energy instead of wasting it hoping to be picked.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 03:26 PM
3

But that is the red pill mindset—treating women as rare opportunities and relationships as high-stakes transactions. You’re describing behaviour that’s shaped by desperation and scarcity, which red pill content constantly reinforces. It’s not just 'what happens'—it’s what keeps happening because men are taught to obsess over every chance like it’s life or death. That’s not biology, that’s conditioning. The entire reason posts like this exist is to help men unlearn that mindset so they stop actin…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 03:25 PM
2

If you “don’t know which ones they are,” all the more reason to take initiative because you get to choose, instead of waiting to be chosen by whoever shows up. That’s the entire point. And no, desirable men don’t deny male behaviour—they just reject the idea that low standards among some men should justify passive strategies among women. If you don’t want to rely on indiscriminate guys, stop building your entire dating approach around waiting for one to prove he isn’t.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 03:20 PM
3

Maybe I’m wrong, but red pill types usually hate posts like this. Every time someone talks about men decentring women or focusing on themselves, there’s a swarm of red pillers jumping in to disagree. It’s like they need men to stay desperate so their talking points stay relevant. The scarcity mindset they push isn’t about understanding reality—it’s about keeping men stuck in fear
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 03:17 PM
7

Yes finally! I've been preaching this for ages. Men decentring relationships isn't about 'giving up'—it's about reclaiming control over their own identity. Too many guys measure their worth based on whether women like them, which leads to insecurity, desperation, and performative self-improvement. But when you focus on building a life you actually enjoy, everything shifts. Friendships get stronger, your goals become clearer, and if you do end up in a relationship, it comes from a place of confid…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 03:15 PM
8

This comment is exactly why red pill ideology keeps men stuck. You’ve reduced male self-worth to 'one shot at pussy' like that’s all a man’s life is worth. That kind of thinking is the problem. If men are conditioned to think every interaction with a woman is a high-stakes game they have to 'win' or they’ll be doomed forever, of course they’ll end up desperate, obsessive, and unbalanced. You’re not describing biology—you’re describing how red pill thinking trains men to devalue themselves unless…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 03:13 PM
7

Exactly.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 03:11 PM
0

That wasn’t a “first step”—that was a green light after the engine had already been started. You approached, sure but in response to existing vibes, not out of the blue. And even then, you made a physical move in a context where physical escalation is normal (a party), not in a context that required emotional vulnerability or clarity of intent. That’s not the same as risking rejection with a direct ask for time, attention, or romantic interest. You responded to mutual chemistry. He defined it. Y…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 02:18 PM
2

Then stop entertaining indiscriminate men. That’s literally the point. Taking initiative doesn’t mean pursuing anyone and everyone—it means you set the standard from the jump instead of reacting after the fact. Blaming male indiscriminacy while still relying on them to initiate is just handing the steering wheel to the very dynamic you’re complaining about. If you know the bar is low, why not be the one raising it instead of waiting for exceptions?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 02:13 PM
1

Again. I'm good. Thanks though.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 02:07 PM
1

Exactly. That’s the double bind—men are blamed whether they try and fail or don’t try at all, while women are rarely expected to self-reflect on their own dating approach. Sit back and wait? Men aren’t good enough. Men approach? They're desperate or creepy. The strategy is passive, the expectations are sky high, and somehow the blame still lands on men either way. At some point, you’ve got to ask—if you're not putting consistent effort in, why do you expect consistent results?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 02:05 PM
1

Right and that still proves the point. When men disengage or give up, they’re often mocked, blamed, or told they just didn’t try hard enough. But when women disengage, it’s framed as healthy boundaries, wisdom, or “choosing peace.” The social framing is not the same, even if the behaviour looks similar. The broader double standard isn't just about what people do, it’s about how it’s perceived and rationalised. Men are expected to keep striving and improving to be seen as worthy. Women can withdr…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 02:00 PM
1

We already have a debate going on two other comments. Lets give it a rest.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 01:58 PM
1

She shouldn’t. If she’s genuinely content with her options and her dating results, then there’s no reason to change her approach. But if she’s not satisfied—if she feels like nothing’s working, men aren’t serious, or she keeps getting poor outcomes—then something has to change. And that’s where the strategy gets called into question. The point isn’t “you must approach men you don’t want.” It’s: if you're dissatisfied with your current dating pool and only willing to engage when a man meets an ex…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 01:57 PM
0

You just gave a laundry list of creepy, disrespectful behaviours that literally no one is defending. That’s not “approaching”—that’s harassment. If you think those things are what I meant by men being expected to make the first move, then you either didn’t read properly or you’re intentionally twisting the argument to avoid addressing the actual point. I’m talking about normal, respectful effort—initiating conversation, showing genuine interest, and risking rejection. The kind of stuff women say…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 01:51 PM
1

And yet again, you dodge the point. The issue isn’t that men “show up”—it’s that they’re expected to. Constantly. Even when it’s unwelcome or unrewarding. You’re complaining about the wrong men trying while ignoring that women still rely on men to make the first move at all. You want initiative when it’s convenient, but not when it’s messy or mismatched. That’s the contradiction. If women don’t like who's showing up, nothing’s stopping them from leading more often and filtering for what they wan…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 01:46 PM
1

You’re proving my point while thinking you’re disproving it. You escalated after he set the foundation. That’s not leading the momentum—it’s responding once the momentum already exists. He defined the context by asking for a date. Everything you describe still hinges on him initiating the transition from casual to intentional. Without that, none of what you did afterward happens. This isn’t about who contributes—it’s about who starts the engine. And in most dynamics, especially early on, that bu…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 01:45 PM
1

No, they approach rarely and in men they're already confident will say yes. That’s not taking initiative—it’s playing it safe. If you're only willing to make a move when rejection is basically off the table, you're not challenging the dynamic, you're reinforcing it. That’s not balance—it’s convenience dressed up as effort.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 01:41 PM
0

You keep screaming “dictating” like I’m handing out orders, when all I’ve done is disagree. That’s not control—that’s conversation. If someone critiques your logic, it doesn’t mean they’re trying to live your life for you. It just means your argument isn’t bulletproof, and you don’t like that being exposed. You keep fixating on the phrase “fairytale ending” like it was some calculated dagger. It was a shorthand for romantic idealism which you brought up by framing one failed relationship as proo…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 01:34 PM
0

If you genuinely think the mere act of showing interest leads to being used for sex, then the problem isn’t initiative—it’s who you’re choosing. You keep acting like taking initiative = automatic exploitation, but that’s not reality. That’s a projection built on fear, not fact. Plenty of women lead with clarity and still find meaningful relationships because they know how to filter, how to set boundaries, and how to walk away when respect isn’t given. What you’re pushing isn’t protection it’s pa…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 01:25 PM
0

You keep calling it “dictating,” but all I’ve done is critique a contradiction. If someone shares a story to prove a broader point, they’re inviting scrutiny—not blind agreement. That’s not control, that’s discourse. If you can’t handle your logic being tested, maybe don’t frame personal choices as universal truths. And yes if the core fear is “being settled for,” that is ego. You can spin it however you like, but insecurity rooted in needing to be someone’s ideal is still about pride. Men don’t…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 01:23 PM
1

No, what’s illogical is pretending that initiative = exploitation. That’s a ridiculous leap. You’re not defending women—you’re infantilising them. The idea that if women take initiative, they’ll automatically get used like “fleshlights” is so wildly defeatist it borders on parody. By that logic, women should never date at all because any move they make risks being taken advantage of. That’s not empowerment, that’s learned helplessness. And no, my “central complaint” isn’t about mimicking male be…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 01:21 PM
1

If your “security” hinges on never feeling like someone might settle, then yeah—that is ego. Because no one gets guarantees in dating. Men risk being used, rejected, or overlooked constantly, and they're still expected to show up. But when women face the possibility of not being someone’s first choice, suddenly it’s unacceptable? And no I don’t need to have your exact experience to spot flawed reasoning. That’s not how arguments work. If men can’t speak on women’s dating behaviour, then by your …
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 01:17 PM
1

Sure equal doesn’t mean identical. But “going with the grain” only makes sense when the grain isn’t creating lopsided effort, risk, and emotional labour for one side. If men are expected to initiate, absorb rejection, drive the interaction, and still get blamed when it fails while women mostly “filter” that’s not just nature, that’s a loaded system. Saying we can tweak the burden slightly without actually shifting participation doesn’t solve the imbalance, it just makes it more palatable. Fairne…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 01:15 PM
-1

Yeah, no shit—they’re not interested in every man. No one is. That’s not the point. The point is that men are still expected to approach women they’re interested in, even knowing most won’t be interested back. Meanwhile, many women won’t even consider approaching unless rejection is basically off the table. That’s the double standard. If women only ever make moves when the outcome is basically guaranteed, that’s not evidence of balance—it’s proof of how little risk they’re willing to take reinfo…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 01:13 PM
5

Cheap hyperbole. When logic fails, just accuse someone of promoting sexual exploitation. Classic. Nothing I said implies women should be “perma fleshlights” or accept mistreatment. If your takeaway from “take initiative to increase your agency in dating” is “submit to random men,” that says more about your mindset than mine. You’re not arguing against my point you’re attacking a strawman because it’s easier than addressing what was actually said. So either engage with the argument as presented, …
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 01:11 PM
1

You say it’s about security, not ego but then you openly admit the fear is being “settled for.” That’s ego. You’re dressing pride up as practicality and hoping no one notices the difference. And no, saying “you’re a man so you don’t get to speak on what works for women” isn’t some clever technicality. It’s still deflection. Either the argument holds up or it doesn’t—who says it doesn’t matter nearly as much as what’s being said. You called my point condescending, but you’re the one spiraling int…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 01:10 PM
2

Sure, biological tendencies might influence things but they don’t justify imbalance. That’s the difference. Saying “well it’s just hardwired” is a convenient way to excuse passivity while pretending it’s inevitable. But we’ve challenged biological instincts across history monogamy, contraception, even basic hygiene all defy “natural” behaviour. Social norms do evolve, especially when they’re exposed as lopsided. So no one’s saying we need to erase all asymmetry overnight. But if we’re going to k…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 10:19 AM
2

That’s fine in theory. But what you’re describing isn’t the problem. The getting to know you phase isn’t the issue. The issue is when one side—usually men—is expected to do all the work to even start that phase. Mutual attraction and rapport don’t magically appear. They’re built through initiative, action, and risk things that men are socially conditioned to provide and women are often socially excused from. And if vague signals and passive filtering are the only contributions being made, that’s…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 09:33 AM
4

I think “transitional period” sums it up well. The frustration comes from that exact mismatch: traditional expectations haven’t disappeared, they’ve just become one-sided. Men are still largely expected to pursue, pay, plan, initiate all the “provider” traits while the cultural message to women is: you do you, and if it doesn’t work out, well, independence is enough. Which again, is fine—if you're owning the trade-off. But what we see instead is this bizarre mix of empowerment and entitlement, w…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 09:25 AM
7

Exactly—that’s the contradiction no one wants to own. You can’t spend years pushing messages that say “don’t be pushy,” “don’t assume attraction,” “don’t make women uncomfortable,” and “wait for clear signals”… then turn around and expect men to suddenly flip the switch and become bold, charming initiators the second they enter the dating market. That’s not how human psychology works. It’s like slamming the brakes and the gas at the same time and wondering why the engine’s burning out. If women …
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 09:23 AM
2

No one’s trying to “guilt” you into anything. You’re absolutely free to avoid risk, protect your time, and steer clear of being used. That’s not the issue. The issue is when that personal boundary gets universalised into a dating strategy, and then the complaints start rolling in about how the dating pool is trash, men aren’t serious, and nothing ever works out. If the goal is to avoid being used—totally fair. But then don’t pretend passivity is some foolproof shield. Women get used all the time…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 09:21 AM
2

Your entire comment just proved my point in real time. You opened by saying it’s not about ego—then immediately framed taking initiative as something that would make you feel “settled for.” That’s ego. That’s literally placing pride above strategy, then pretending it’s about practicality. And telling me I can’t speak on dating dynamics because I’m a man? That’s not a counterpoint—that’s deflection. If the data, logic, and observed patterns are sound, it doesn’t suddenly become invalid because of…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 09:20 AM
2

That’d be a fair point if I were saying all generalisations are valid. But I’m not. The difference is how they’re applied and whether they’re based on observed, widespread patterns or just lazy stereotyping. When people say “men are trash,” they’re rarely talking about actual data or consistent behavioural trends—they’re venting, often based on personal bias. What I’m pointing to is a well-documented, recurring pattern in modern dating: women being more passive in the early stages while expectin…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 09:18 AM
2

You're not wrong. A lot of men are unfortunately conditioned to value the "chase" and may lose interest if they feel it's too easy or one-sided in the other direction. That dynamic does exist, and I get why you've adjusted your approach accordingly. You’ve responded to the system the way many men are also forced to: by adapting, even if it means suppressing parts of yourself. But that is the problem. The dating script punishes women for being too forward and punishes men for not being forward en…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 09:16 AM
2

Well said. The hypocrisy is hilarious to me.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 09:14 AM
1

That’s fair IF we’re talking about genuinely uninterested women. But that’s not the point I’m making. The issue is when women are interested but still default to passivity waiting for men to carry the entire interaction forward, dropping vague signals, and then getting frustrated when it doesn’t go anywhere. That’s the contradiction. If you’re interested, show it clearly. If you’re not, sure, be passive but don’t complain about the dating landscape while contributing to the imbalance. And yeah, …
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 09:13 AM
2

Sure those things can be signals of interest. But let’s not pretend a DM or casual small talk is the same level of risk or effort as actually making a clear move. Most of what you're describing still keeps the ball firmly in the guy’s court. It’s a nudge, not initiative. That’s the whole point: when women are interested, they often hint, while men are expected to act. There’s a gap between creating an opportunity and taking responsibility for moving things forward. One is passive encouragement, …
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 09:10 AM
3

That’s the problem though—subtle signals aren’t equal engagement. Liking a post, making eye contact, or standing nearby isn’t the same as starting a conversation, making a plan, or facing rejection. If you’re relying on “subtlety,” then you're not actually meeting anyone halfway you're tossing breadcrumbs and hoping he builds the whole loaf. And this idea that “you won’t need to put in effort if she likes you”? That’s exactly the imbalance being pointed out. One side gets to be passive and choos…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 09:08 AM
3

Well said.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 09:07 AM
2

Well said. People can dress it up as "strategy" or "discernment" all they want, but when you know you’re into someone and still won’t make a move—out of fear, pride, or habit—that’s not empowerment, that’s avoidance. It’s wild how often “I’m just not comfortable doing that” is used as a shield while still expecting men to be confident, direct, and emotionally available on cue. Like… what’s the logic there? You want someone who leads with bold energy but you won’t even signal with clarity? And ye…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 09:06 AM
3

And everyone can complain sure. But if your standards filter out effort, risk, or initiative on your end, then the complaints lose weight. That’s the core point. Also, “men will fuck anything” isn’t a valid counter—it’s often repeated as hyperbole, and used to diminish male effort while excusing female passivity. If women want better quality, the answer isn’t “lower your standards” or “wait for the unicorn,” it’s engage with more intention. You can’t dismiss all male interest as meaningless and …
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 09:01 AM
3

I do but here’s the disconnect: you're saying men and women aren’t the same, then using that as a blanket justification to disengage from the process while still expecting elite results. That’s the imbalance I’m calling out. No one’s saying you have to act like a man to get a man. But if you want a specific type of 'high quality' man (dominant, bold, intentional etc) you can’t always rely on traditional dynamics and luck. It’s not about becoming aggressive or loud. It’s about showing clear, inte…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 08:58 AM
3

Interesting story, but it’s not really relevant to the point I made. One woman’s personal dating outlook doesn’t prove some wider cultural downfall. Not every woman who’s single at 30 is a “spinster”—some just aren’t panicking, and that’s okay.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 08:55 AM
2

That sounds logical until you realise it relies on a flawed assumption: that the only men worth dating are the ones who already approached you. That’s not quality control—that’s convenience masquerading as selectivity. You’re mistaking who initiates for who is best suited, and in doing so, you’re narrowing your dating pool to only the most forward men, not the most compatible ones. If you want a confident, intentional partner but only ever sit back and wait, you’re relying on hope, not standards…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 08:51 AM
2

Because that’s not how reciprocity works. If you're waiting for men to always lead, you're not looking for a partner you’re looking for a performer. Saying “if we’re confident, men don’t have to be” sounds clever until you realise it just reinforces the same double standard you’re trying to defend: men must prove themselves while women simply choose. Healthy dynamics require mutual effort. Confidence isn’t a limited resource where if one has it, the other is off the hook. In reality, both people…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 08:49 AM
-1

Then don’t do their work do yours. The point isn’t about making things easier for men; it’s about improving your own outcomes. If a man is lazy and low-effort, that’s all the more reason to take initiative and screen for who actually shows up with genuine energy. Being proactive doesn’t mean carrying the relationship or courting men who do nothing. It means filtering better, faster. This “I won’t do it because that’s what they want” logic sounds empowering but it’s actually reactive. It’s not ab…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 08:47 AM
3

But that’s also part of the issue. Most women aren't approaching dating with that level of directness or consistency unless the guy is already ticking every single box. That’s not the norm—that’s the exception. The “jump at it” response usually only happens when the stars align: looks, status, timing, vibes… all of it. And that kind of passivity waiting for perfect alignment is exactly what leads to so much dissatisfaction. If you're only active when it feels safe and ideal, you're not really pa…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 08:45 AM
1

No one’s saying women should be forced to initiate. The point is about honesty and consistency. If someone chooses a passive approach, that's their prerogative. But then they should also accept the natural consequences of that choice limited options, lower agency, and possibly more frustration. What’s unfair is opting out of the effort while still expecting top-tier results and sympathy when things don’t go as hoped. This isn’t about dictating how people must date—it’s about pointing out the con…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 08:42 AM
1

Which just proves the point. That’s not active dating—that’s hyper-selective engagement under perfect conditions. If women only “approach” when a guy is already in the top 5% of attraction, pre-vetted, and showing signs of interest, that’s not taking initiative—that’s taking a shortcut. Meanwhile, men are expected to shoot their shot across the board, face rejection constantly, and still carry the emotional and logistical burden of getting things off the ground. So no, cherry-picking the occasio…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 08:39 AM
0

That’s the kind of mental gymnastics I’m talking about. You’re framing reaction as initiation to maintain the illusion of shared effort. But let's not kid ourselves responding to interest isn’t the same as creating it. Making out at a party isn’t some masterclass in agency if everything still depended on the guy taking the next step afterward. You escalated in the moment, sure but he still had to interpret the signal, define the intent, and initiate the actual relationship. That’s not initiative…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 08:37 AM
1

What’s actually hilarious is pretending that the work is equal when the dynamics clearly aren’t. Men aren’t just “putting in more work” they’re expected to do so as a baseline. They initiate the conversations, plan the dates, risk rejection, carry the emotional labor of pursuit, and often still get dismissed as “not good enough” by people who haven’t made a single proactive move in the process. Meanwhile, many women are taught that just showing up is enough. Make yourself look good, exist on the…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 08:34 AM
1

Well said
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/25 08:31 AM
1

Because that’s exactly what men are expected to do every single day and no one’s handing them a gold star or a rejection-proof environment for it. The issue isn’t that women want to gauge interest—everyone does. The issue is that when men do it, they’re expected to act on that interest. When women do it, they often stop at vague signals and still expect the guy to take the risk, lead the interaction, and make things happen. You're framing it as "why waste her time?" but that's what initiative in…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 06:52 PM
2

“Fewer options” is the trade-off of passivity and that’s fine if you accept the outcomes that come with it. But the issue is, many don’t. They choose passivity, end up with limited, low-quality results, and then blame men, the apps, or the entire dating system. You’re acting like women are just calmly choosing selectivity but that doesn’t line up with the volume of complaints we constantly hear about how “there are no good men,” “nothing ever works,” or “dating is exhausting.” If passive filteri…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 06:47 PM
2

You're misunderstanding what “works” actually means here. If the goal is attention, then sure—passivity might work fine. But if the complaints are about poor relationship outcomes, low-quality matches, or dating exhaustion, then clearly it’s not working in the way people claim to want. And no—saying “men will sleep with anything” isn’t a justification for disengaging from effort altogether. That just means low-effort options are abundant. It doesn’t mean those options are good, committed, or com…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 06:44 PM
0

And that’s exactly the double standard I’m pointing out. You’re allowed to prefer assertive, dominant men but then don’t turn around and complain about the lack of them if your strategy is to sit back and wait for one to find you. You want rare, high-value traits in a partner? Then maybe show up with some intentionality yourself. You don’t get to hate passivity in men while practicing it yourself and expecting gold to fall in your lap. You figured out what you’re attracted to. Great. Now ask you…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 06:42 PM
1

If women only engage when a man is already attractive, already made the first move, already did the heavy lifting, and already meets every precondition… then that’s not engaging. That’s filtering. That’s sitting back in the VIP section and claiming you’re “involved” because you waved at the waiter. You can’t say women are “engaging” when the entire strategy is waiting for ideal conditions to come to them. That’s not initiative, it’s selective participation based on minimal effort and maximum rew…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 06:40 PM
9

That’s a valid concern but it’s also not a reason to default to passivity. Yes, some men will accept attention or sex without long-term interest. But guess what? That happens regardless of who initiates. Men don’t suddenly gain more integrity just because they made the first move. If anything, when women are assertive, they gain more control over the interaction—they set the pace, they clarify intent, and they can better filter who’s genuinely interested versus who’s just opportunistic. Avoiding…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 04:50 PM
1

Agreed
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 04:48 PM
1

Fair enough. You're absolutely allowed to complain. Just don’t act surprised when people stop listening or outright shut you down because your complaints don’t match your choices. Choosing to disengage can be a form of agency—sure. But the contradiction arises when someone disengages, then turns around and blames everyone else for the results. If you're opting out, that’s fine. Own it. But you don’t get to disengage from the process while still demanding ideal outcomes from it or sympathy for ho…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 04:48 PM
4

And yet again, hiding behind biology to justify passivity while ignoring agency in a modern context. Yes, women want men who are interested and proactive cool. But if your entire dating strategy hinges on waiting around for that energy to show up without putting any out yourself, then you’re not “selecting,” you’re just hoping. Nature might explain instinct, but you’re not an animal in a mating ritual—you're a person with choices and tools and dating apps. You're capable of doing more than waiti…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 04:46 PM
0

That’s not the profound insight you think it is. “Women show interest differently” is often just a euphemism for doing the bare minimum—a glance, a smile, a like on a photo and expecting men to not only notice it but act on it. That’s not “different communication,” that’s strategically vague signalling that shifts all the pressure onto men to guess, initiate, and risk rejection. And the “there’s not a lot of benefit to chasing men who haven’t shown interest first” line? That cuts both ways. Men …
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 04:43 PM
1

Appreciate the honesty in your response especially the bit about the meritocracy myth being nonsense. But let’s be real: saying “being passive won’t hinder their outcomes that much” only holds up if the goal is attention, not meaningful connection or long-term compatibility. Sure, being passive might land you dates, matches, or short-term interest but that’s not success in the broader sense, especially not the kind women often claim to be looking for. If women are exhausted, disillusioned, or st…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 04:41 PM
4

Everyone wants someone they’re attracted to. The difference is, men still have to put themselves out there, risk rejection, and do the heavy lifting regardless of outcome. If women only make a move when the stars align, they’re not participating equally, they’re curating from a safe distance. And if that strategy keeps delivering poor results? Then maybe it’s time to change the approach, not just the standards.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 04:37 PM
1

That sounds nice in theory, but in practice, broad generalisations about men happen constantly and go largely unchallenged especially when they’re negative. “Men are trash,” “men need to step up,” “men are emotionally unavailable”—these are blanket critiques often made with zero nuance, and rarely do people rush in to clarify, “Well, not all men.” So let’s not pretend this double standard doesn’t exist. What I’m doing is holding up a mirror to that. If broad-stroke advice is acceptable when dire…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 04:35 PM
1

I am doubtful. "Active" for women is not very active https://theblog.okcupid.com/a-womans-advantage-82d5074dde2d
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 04:33 PM
7

You’re conflating two completely different dynamics. When men operate from “abundance,” they’re usually already putting in work—building status, improving themselves, and actively pursuing options until they reach that point. It’s a result of effort, not a strategy of sitting back and hoping. What I’m critiquing is a strategy where women start from passivity expecting high-quality outcomes while doing none of the initiating and labour. And when that strategy doesn't deliver, it’s followed by lou…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 04:32 PM
7

I’m well aware of what evolutionary psychology says but citing it like it’s the final word ignores the fact that human beings aren’t slaves to biology. We don’t base every modern decision on Stone Age instincts. If we did, we wouldn’t have birth control, improve gender relations, or monogamy. We’d be clubbing each other and calling it courtship. Yes, evo psych might explain why some women are passive but it doesn’t justify the continued use of a strategy that leads to repeated frustration. Under…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 04:30 PM
1

Yes, women ultimately choose who to date but only from the pool that presents itself. And that pool is determined by who’s doing the approaching. If women are only choosing from the men who pursue them, then they’re operating with limited options, often skewed by who’s most confident or persistent—not who’s actually most compatible. Initiating flips that dynamic. Instead of passively sorting through whoever shows up, women can actively seek out the men they’re genuinely interested in. That gives…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 04:27 PM
1

You say you’re not the passive one, but the moment you took initiative, the guy you invited turned out to be passive. Right. And what did you do? You dropped the energy and walked away. So let’s apply that logic evenly: if men constantly take initiative and are met with passivity, should they also just stop and say “no second date”? You’d call that giving up too easily, right? This is the exact double standard I’m calling out. You tried once or twice, didn’t get your ideal outcome, and backed of…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 04:24 PM
1

You're talking about complementarity in established relationships—I'm talking about initiation and effort in the dating phase, where imbalance is the norm and one side (men) carries the bulk of the work. Those are two completely different stages. Your example works after mutual interest is established. But that’s not the point being made. The issue is that many women want the results of a high-effort relationship while contributing passive energy at the start. If you only engage when the “perfec…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 04:20 PM
3

So now we’re pretending that the problem isn’t passivity or imbalance—it’s “too much genderlessness”? That’s a neat way of avoiding the core issue, which is this: women benefit from a system where they aren’t expected to initiate, take risk, or lead—yet still complain about the outcomes. You’re trying to intellectualise the problem away by invoking abstract terms like “regulation” and “intermediation,” but all that does is dodge individual accountability. No one’s asking for gender erasure. What…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 04:18 PM
3

No, the problem is the blatant imbalance in expectations. You keep falling back on “men are thirstier” and “do as they please,” as if that magically makes the disparity irrelevant. It doesn’t. If anything, it proves my point: men initiate because they’re expected to, and women benefit from staying passive while still demanding high standards and emotional labour from the other side. The fact that women don’t have to take the same risks and still complain when the results don’t match their expect…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 04:15 PM
3

No I’m not flailing at women for “approaching dating differently.” I’m pointing out the double standard where women want men to be bold, direct, and intentional, but feel entitled to remain vague, passive, and unaccountable then act confused when the results are disappointing. And let’s be real: you’re not defending logic here, you’re defending comfort. Calling minimal effort “logical” because it results in less rejection doesn’t make it a strong dating strategy—it just makes it risk-averse. Tha…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 04:11 PM
2

If women want better dating results, the solution isn’t to double down on comfort and blame male standards. It’s to actually engage in the process. The entire point is about taking ownership not just sitting back, enjoying the perks, and blaming the system when it doesn’t deliver the fantasy.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 04:09 PM
–

“It’s not sabotage if it works” is a cope. Works how, exactly? If it “works,” then why the constant complaining about low-quality men, unfulfilling dates, and disappointing outcomes? You can’t call it a successful strategy when the results clearly don’t match the expectations. That’s like burning your dinner every night and insisting the oven’s fine because the fire alarm still works. As for that link just because an experience is common doesn’t make it optimal. Men being more sexually indiscrim…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 04:04 PM
2

I disagree.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 04:02 PM
1

No contradiction here—just your inability to grasp nuance. Women flirting is not the same as initiating. Liking a guy’s photo or making eye contact isn’t taking the lead—it’s a soft signal, not an actionable step. The burden of actually making the move, planning the date, and risking rejection still falls on men. That’s not me demanding it be “done my way”—that’s pointing out the actual difference in investment and risk. You’re pretending crumbs equal a full meal. In other your words womens idea…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 04:01 PM
1

Sure. Point stands.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 03:58 PM
1

Yes I am 😂
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 03:57 PM
1

You're turning basic, commonly understood concepts like "initiative" and "effort" into abstract riddles to avoid acknowledging the imbalance. We don’t need a roundtable to define “first move”—we all know what it means in the context of dating: who opens the conversation, who plans the date, who makes the intentions clear. And overwhelmingly, that burden falls on men. Claiming that women don’t message first because they’re too overwhelmed by matches isn’t a rebuttal—it’s exactly the issue. If wom…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 03:55 PM
2

Good for them?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 03:53 PM
0

First off, every morning I begin with the Mirror Confidence Enhancement Ritual, standing in front of my reflection for 17 minutes, deep in my own eyes, repeating affirmations like “I am a dating god” and “My sarcasm is the key to unlocking any heart.” This primes me for battle, ensuring my inner confidence is nothing short of invincible. Then, I embarked on the 12-Step Alpha Energy Program. This is a highly classified course I designed to exude maximum dominance with minimal effort. Step one: we…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 02:52 PM
2

Sure. I don't get red pill so I'll take your word for it.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 02:45 PM
1

Dating rewards active participation, and if you're only putting effort into situations that already feel comfortable or are ideal, you're still relying on passivity. That’s self-sabotage in the long run. It's really simple. You can’t keep waiting for the "perfect" scenario and then complain when the results don’t match your expectations.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 02:45 PM
1

Then why bring up how this would change the quality of men? Women initiating gives them more control over the quality of their dating pool. It’s better quality control, plain and simple. In life, no one is taught to just “let things happen”—we’re taught to take initiative. So why, when it comes to dating, is this the exception that gets pushed back? Well, I know why...
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 02:39 PM
2

This is all bout effort and accountability. The issue is that women expect men to do all the initiating, while sitting back and complaining when things don’t go their way. You can’t keep waiting for the “perfect” match to come to you and then complain about lack of quality. Approaching isn’t about fairness, it’s about engagement. If you want better outcomes, you have to engage with the process and take responsibility for your own results. That’s what I’m saying, but if you want to ignore that an…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 02:36 PM
2

I'm just not gonna pretend the current dating system is fine when one side does all the work. If women want better results, they need to start contributing equally.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 02:33 PM
3

Men and women have different goals—fine, but that doesn’t justify the imbalance. Men are expected to put in the effort while women get to opt out of that work, then complain about the results. If women want to attract quality men, they need to put in the same effort, instead of sitting back and waiting to be approached. Cold approaches and swiping right are minimal effort—men are still the ones doing the labour of initiating. Women are handed attention daily, but they don’t engage with the proce…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 02:32 PM
1

Dating may be voluntary, but expectations are not. Men are expected to initiate because that’s the dynamic that’s been set. If things were truly as equal as you’re suggesting, we wouldn’t see men doing nearly all the work—sending 80-90% of first messages, facing rejection, and still putting themselves out there while women remain passive. The issue is that women benefit from this system—they don’t have to take the same risks, yet still complain about the results. Lack of initiative is the core p…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 02:29 PM
0

You're missing the point. It’s not about just "approaching better men"—it’s about taking responsibility for the process. Women can complain all they want about the men they encounter, but if they’re not actively engaging in the dating world and initiating at all, they’re just waiting for the perfect man to fall into their lap. That’s the issue. If women want better outcomes, they need to stop relying entirely on men to pursue and show some initiative themselves. Complaining about men being "bad"…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 02:26 PM
1

I have no clue. It's really strange.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 02:24 PM
0

Fair enough, but we’re clearly not going to see eye-to-eye on this judging by your flair. If you think gender roles are fine as they are and that the system works, that’s your choice. But the issue remains that the lack of equal engagement is the core problem. Men are expected to initiate, and women often don’t take equal responsibility, while still complaining about the results. If you’re content with that, fine, but don’t act like the imbalance isn’t there. I’ll stick with the idea that mutual…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 02:23 PM
2

Try not to move the goal post: https://theblog.okcupid.com/a-womans-advantage-82d5074dde2d
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 02:19 PM
1

Agreed.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 02:19 PM
1

You have to prove to me there is a "quality of men" issue to begin with. This is a different conversation but I am curious.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 02:18 PM
16

My point is if you want an equal dating dynamic, you need to actively engage, not just wait for the "right" guy to meet your standards.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 02:17 PM
4

Agreed. They massively exaggerate how much initiative they take and what that actually looks like.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 02:16 PM
1

I’m not talking about individual cases; I’m talking about a pattern. Yes, some women do take initiative, but the issue is that too many don’t, and then complain about the outcomes. Your experience of initiating plans is great, but let’s not pretend it's the norm when so many women still expect men to pursue them and take all the lead, then act surprised when things don't go well. As for the "boring" guys you’ve met, that’s exactly my point. Passive men are often a result of the environment they'…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 02:14 PM
2

Cop-out. The point isn’t that approaching more will fix everything, it’s that participating actively in the dating process is what’s needed. If you want better outcomes, you have to put in more than just passive observation. If you’re only waiting for the "perfect" guy to come to you, you're not even giving yourself a chance to find the right match. Yes, quality matters. But if you're sitting back and complaining about the lack of quality men, while expecting them to put in all the effort, then …
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 02:12 PM
1

Nobody’s saying men are just roaming the streets waiting for women to approach them—that would be an absurd expectation. What I’m talking about is the larger, more common pattern where men are still expected to do the majority of the initiating in dating, whether on apps or in person. Yes, apps are designed for dating, and sure, relationships often begin through mutual interactions. But the dynamic still falls largely on men to make the first move. The fact that most apps report men initiating c…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 02:10 PM
2

The problem isn't that women don’t get approached—it’s that they overly rely on being approached. The issue is that men are expected to do all the initiating, while women often sit back and complain about the lack of quality options. You don't get it both ways. Approaching in mass would change the dynamic because it would shift the expectation for women to also put in effort, instead of waiting to be pursued and then they get better quality control which is something they often complain about...
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 02:08 PM
-1

Appreciate the well thought out comment but respectfully this reminds me how much i vehemently disagree and despise red pill ideology so i'm gonna pass on the back and fourth debate here. Again thanks for the comment.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 02:05 PM
2

I’ll stick with the data, thanks. Women’s opinions on their own group can be insightful, but they often don’t align with the broader trends or reflect the full picture. It’d be convenient if we could rely solely on personal opinions to shape the narrative, but the numbers tell a different story, and they’re more grounded in observable behaviour. So, yeah, I’m going with what’s actually backed up by facts. Hilarious suggestion.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 02:02 PM
2

When I make a broad point about women’s passive dating strategies or complaints, I’m doing the same thing that’s done to men when we’re told to “just be more assertive” or “do better” without acknowledging that not all men are the same. If you want to challenge my generalisations, that's fair, but the same standard should apply to the generalisations about men too and blatantly isn't so I'm done caring to be honest.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 01:59 PM
3

No, it’s not about being “dedicated to the chase”—it’s about the contradiction of wanting certain outcomes while refusing to participate in the process that leads to those outcomes. Men are expected to put in all the effort, take on the emotional labor, and deal with rejection. Meanwhile, women can lean back, selectively engage, and still complain when it doesn’t work out how they want. It’s not about dedication to the chase but about accountability for the role you play in the outcome. If you'r…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 01:52 PM
3

You're still missing the core issue. It’s not about complaining for the sake of it—it’s about the contradiction between women actively choosing a passive dating strategy, getting poor outcomes, and then blaming the dating system or men. If they want to be passive, fine. But don’t act surprised when the results are underwhelming. The issue is the lack of accountability. I’m not concerned about their failure—I'm concerned about them refusing to adjust and still placing the blame externally. It’s n…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 01:50 PM
3

Exactly!
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 01:48 PM
1

I did. You should read the stats within the article. Burying your head in the sand isn't going to work here unfortunately.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 01:47 PM
1

You’re missing the point. This isn’t about who suggests plans with friends—it’s about dating dynamics, where women are often passive, waiting for men to pursue, while still complaining about men and dating because it isn't going their way. If you want an active, engaged partner and more dating success you need to start being active in the early stages of dating—not just sitting back and expecting men to carry all the weight.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 01:46 PM
6

You’re missing the point entirely. Men supposedly acting passive on dating apps or cold approaching doesn’t absolve women of the responsibility of equal participation in the process. You’re confusing effort with expectations—men are still expected to initiate, lead, and navigate the dating landscape, while women get to sit back and wait for the “right” moment, all while complaining about lack of results. Swiping right mindlessly and cold approaching are still forms of putting yourself out there—…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 01:43 PM
2

Great, it worked for you. That’s anecdotal, though, and doesn’t change the fact that it’s not the norm for most women. If women were consistently taking initiative, we wouldn’t still be seeing the same trends on dating apps and in real life—where men still do the vast majority of initiating. Not sure what you're trying to prove with that last point. Give my post another read.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 01:40 PM
1

When we're talking about women's version of 'flirting' which is often an minimal-effort act most men miss because it's so ridiculously low effort, no. If that’s "approaching" in your book, then sure but let’s not pretend it’s equal to taking the initiative to make a move, plan a date, or follow through. And yes, some women do approach. The issue is that it’s the exception (which you guys hilariously exaggerate) not the rule. The vast majority of dating dynamics still put men in the position to t…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 01:37 PM
3

Eye contact, vague compliments, or liking a photo are still passive actions, and they do nothing to actually move things forward unless a man takes the next step. What you're describing is the bare minimum—a low-risk way to test the waters without putting in real effort. Flirting is an invitation, not an action plan. If women want men to step up, they need to show more than just a casual "hint." And yes, men should learn how to flirt too, but that doesn’t let women off the hook for their lack of…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 01:31 PM
1

Yes
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 01:29 PM
0

Yes—men swipe more, are more sexually assertive, and face more rejection. That is the context and it's precisely why the burden of initiative overwhelmingly falls on men. But f things “aren’t equal,” and women know they’re benefiting from this imbalance, then turning around and complaining about poor dating results while doing none of the work is pure hypocrisy. You don’t get to opt out of effort and act like a victim of the system. That’s the double standard I’m pointing out. It's not about pre…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 01:26 PM
42

It makes sense why women do this but it also explains why so many of them are frustrated. If your dating strategy is “sit back and wait for a unicorn while putting in zero consistent effort,” then disappointment is baked into the process. And when that’s your approach? You’ve forfeited the right to blame the system or the men in it.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 01:22 PM
2

The point isn’t why men send more first messages—it’s that women overwhelmingly don’t. You're proving my argument without realising it: men are expected to carry the burden of initiation, effort, and rejection, while women stay passive and selective and still complain when dating doesn’t go their way. Saying men are “thirsty” or “indiscriminate” doesn’t change the imbalance—it just reinforces it. If women genuinely wanted a more equal dynamic, they’d match that energy with action. But most don’t…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 01:21 PM
1

Sure, it can work short-term. But if it was working long-term, we wouldn’t see so many women saying they’re exhausted by dating, struggling to find quality men, or frustrated that things “never go anywhere.” Passive attraction might get attention, but it rarely leads to connection especially if you're relying on the other person to carry the entire interaction forward. You can say “there’ll always be enough male attention,” but this just proves that women are still leaning on traditional dynamic…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 01:18 PM
1

I was talking about the moderation culture and what kinds of conversations are actually allowed to happen here compared to other subs on Reddit. This is one of the few places where you can critique dating dynamics especially around gender without instantly getting dogpiled or banned. I'm also not about ignoring anyone’s complaints?. Maybe I misunderstood what you said. If you're reading that as me "ignoring" one side, maybe it's because a lot of platforms do ignore or shut down any perspective t…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 01:15 PM
5

Yes, I’ve looked at dating app demographics and your point doesn’t hold up. Online dating is now the most common way couples meet, surpassing every other method—including through friends, work, or social events. So dismissing patterns from dating apps as if they’re irrelevant or niche is just wrong. The behaviours we see there—like men sending 80–90% of first messages—reflect the same dynamic that plays out offline: men are expected to initiate, women are expected to choose. Also, let’s not pret…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 01:12 PM
6

I’m not “complaining that women don’t behave how I want.” I’m pointing out that a large number of women stick to passive dating strategies while simultaneously complaining that dating sucks, men are trash, and nothing ever works out for them. That contradiction isn’t a matter of preference—it’s a cultural pattern that deserves scrutiny, especially when it shapes mainstream narratives around dating. As for “going out and increasing social contacts,” again—you’re proving my point. Men are expected…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 01:09 PM
2

This even proves as I said being more active actually helps women: https://theblog.okcupid.com/a-womans-advantage-82d5074dde2d By the way you're misrepresenting what I said. I never claimed women never approach men—I said it's not the norm , and when it does happen (which is MASSIVELY overexaggerated by women for some reason), it’s usually under very selective, low-risk conditions. That’s a huge difference. So no, I don’t need to prove women never approach men. I need to prove that it’s not comm…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 01:06 PM
1

You’re oversimplifying my point. It’s not “women complain = bad.” It’s women complain about outcomes they’re actively contributing to while refusing to adjust anything. That’s the issue. If someone tries a different strategy—like being more active in dating—and still complains, then the question becomes: are they reflecting on how they’re approaching it, or are they blaming others again? Because growth requires more than just switching tactics once. It takes consistency, patience, and self-aware…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 12:50 PM
4

“Women already approach the men they like” is a feel-good line women love to repeat, but let’s be honest—it’s mostly bullshit. It’s a narrative a lot of women tell themselves to feel like they’re putting in effort, when in reality, what they’re calling “approaching” is usually limited to safe, low-risk signals like eye contact, vague compliments, or liking a guy’s photo. Deep down, a lot of women know the current gender dynamic benefits them. You don’t have to risk rejection, put yourself out th…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 12:47 PM
0

You just gave me a long-winded non-answer laced with condescension. You're not disproving anything I said. You're just shifting the conversation to sex drive, popularity dynamics, and vaguely nostalgic stories about organic flirting as if that cancels out the documented, widespread trend of men being the primary initiators in dating. And that’s not just opinion—it’s supported by real-world stats from nearly every dating app and social study on courtship behaviour. You ask when women would have t…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 12:44 PM
2

Exactly and that’s the part that rarely gets said out loud. You can date passively, sure but that means relinquishing control and accepting whatever results come your way without complaint. You don’t get to stay passive and hyper-selective, and expect the guy to be perfect at reading your mind, hitting every note, and still take the lead without flaw. That’s just unrealistic. What you're describing is the split between wanting traditional courtship when it benefits you, and modern equality when …
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 12:38 PM
2

That’s more a reflection of the nature of this space, to be fair. This sub is a lot more lenient than most places online especially on Reddit.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 12:32 PM
-1

If “women approach when they’re interested” were truly the norm, we wouldn’t still be having this conversation or seeing men send 80-90% of first messages on dating apps, or watching women still overwhelmingly expect men to initiate in real life. That line is mostly a feel-good narrative women tell themselves to maintain the illusion of effort while still enjoying the comfort of traditional gender roles a lot of you are supposedly against. And before you claim it’s because 'most men aren’t up to…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 12:30 PM
3

Simple: if you’re not attracted to passive men, then don’t be passive yourself. Lead with the same energy you want to receive. No one’s saying you should date men who just sit around and wait but if you sit around and wait, how are you any different? This is exactly the issue: women want confident, intentional men… while refusing to be confident or intentional themselves. You can’t demand boldness while offering ambiguity. If you want someone who leads, attracts, and pursues with clarity—then sh…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 12:22 PM
1

This is exactly the mess I’m talking about. Women want to be approached, but only by the right guy, at the right moment, when they’re in the right mood. If any of those variables are off? Suddenly it’s “creepy” or “inappropriate.” But if men stop approaching altogether, that’s a problem too. We're "cowards" or "not real men." You literally can’t win. And yeah there’s zero accountability. Women won’t initiate, won’t give clear signals, but will still complain when dating doesn't go their way. The…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 12:21 PM
1

Nobody said being single is a “total loss.” The point is, if someone consistently complains about their dating experience while sticking to passive, outdated strategies, then yeah—that’s self-sabotage. Choosing to stay single and owning that choice is one thing. Complaining about poor outcomes while doing nothing to change your approach is another. Also, “women do approach when they’re interested” is only true in the most selective, low-risk scenarios—if the guy is highly attractive, if the cond…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 12:17 PM
11

No, the solution isn’t “pursue the men you already think aren’t good enough.” That’s a misread. The point is: if you’re constantly disappointed with who’s showing up, maybe it’s time to stop waiting for the right people to come to you and start being intentional about who you pursue, connect with, or give a shot. Taking an active role means taking control of your outcomes, not just complaining about the options that happen to fall into your lap. You can’t keep relying on passive strategies waiti…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 12:14 PM
6

“Women approach men they like. Facts.” Cool statement. Now back it up with actual data or anything beyond “trust me, bro.” Saying “it’s the norm” without evidence is just opinion dressed up as truth. Meanwhile, the actual observable norm—both online and in real life—is still men overwhelmingly being the ones expected to initiate, pursue, and lead. That’s why nearly every dating app still reports men sending the vast majority of first messages, and why women themselves openly talk about how they …
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 12:10 PM
11

Sure—people complain. The sun rises. Water’s wet. That’s not the point. The difference is, when people consistently make choices that lead to poor outcomes, and loudly blame external factors while refusing to adjust their own behaviour, it becomes fair game for critique. Especially when that dynamic shapes broader cultural narratives around dating. Saying “just ignore it” is like saying we shouldn’t discuss any flawed behaviour just because it’s common. That logic could apply to literally anythi…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 12:08 PM
4

But that’s the issue—you’re calling it logic just because it feels justified based on limited experience. “It didn’t work for me, therefore it’s flawed” isn’t logic, it’s rationalisation. If anything, that proves the comfort-over-agency point: trying something briefly, not getting ideal results, then writing it off completely. That’s not how growth or success works in any area of life. Men experience rejection constantly, and yet they’re expected to keep pushing, improve their approach, and not …
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 11:41 AM
3

I agree that being active doesn’t have to only mean direct cold approaches—there’s a definitely a spectrum. Socialising, putting yourself in the right spaces, and keeping conversations alive are forms of engagement. But I think we both know that many women still stop far short of anything that actually requires them to take initiative when it’s not already a sure thing. You say women have “done this and realised it’s not a good strategy.” But here’s the thing: when men try and fail, they’re expe…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 11:40 AM
25

"Let them fail" would be fine if they actually owned the failure. But they don’t. They complain. Loudly. Constantly. About how dating sucks, men aren’t good enough, nobody meets their standards, etc. This isn’t about men not being chosen. It’s about outcomes and women playing the same passive role over and over, getting the same unsatisfying results, and then acting like they’re just unlucky or that men are the problem. If you refuse to change your dating strategy, then yeah—stop moaning when it…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 11:37 AM
–

Yep. There’s a massive disconnect between the “strong, independent woman” branding and how a lot of those same women actually operate in dating. Independence tends to vanish the moment initiative is required. They still expect men to lead, initiate, plan, and pursue just like always. If you’re falling back on traditional dynamics, that’s your choice but then you lose the high ground when it comes to complaining. You can’t cling to passive dating habits, rely on men to carry the interaction, and …
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 11:32 AM
3

That’s exactly the pattern I’m calling out: choosing comfort over agency, then acting like the dating system and men are the problem when things don’t just fall into your lap. Now, maybe that doesn’t apply to you personally but it’s a common trend. Too many women dip their toes into effort, have a slither of the male dating experience, don’t get the results they want, and retreat back to passivity, then complain that nothing’s working. The real logic is simple: if you want different results, try…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 11:30 AM
7

If women were truly doing this en masse, we wouldn’t be having the same rinse-and-repeat complaints about modern dating dynamics every time the topic comes up on Reddit, on TikTok, in articles, everywhere. The reality is, while some women do take initiative with men they're highly attracted to, it's the exception, not the norm. And often, it's done in extremely low-risk ways like dropping a hint or liking a dating profile—not the kind of clear, direct approach men are expected to make daily. Say…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/25 11:20 AM
3

I did. The first part is a fact.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 05:41 PM
3

Wow this is a really good point I didn't consider. Well said.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 04:54 PM
1

If a guy has no leverage in dating, his only real option is to build himself up so he’s not playing from a position of desperation. That’s not delusion, that’s strategy.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 03:15 PM
8

You keep saying OP is 'explicitly' separating need from entitlement, but that doesn’t change how people hear and interpret it. Language doesn’t exist in a vacuum—certain framings come with baggage, whether OP intends it or not. That’s why people react this way. And no, it’s not just because of ‘socialists’ or ‘female posters’ assuming entitlements—plenty of people, across all ideologies, push back against this framing because it has historically been used to justify entitlement. That’s the conce…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 03:13 PM
2

You're pretty bleak for a purple pill.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 03:01 PM
2

That's a good mindset! /s
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 02:46 PM
3

I mean I agree assuming you suggest we as men encourage each other to 'opt out'. In fact I've made posts here before encouraging such a thing but other dudes particularly red pill ones always have some reason why we shouldn't and often claim a man would be "cowardly" or a "failure" for doing so.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 02:46 PM
12

It’s not ‘projection’—it’s a recognition of how language shapes expectations. If calling sex a ‘need’ didn’t often carry an implication of entitlement, then why do so many people push back against it? Why does this conversation happen over and over again? If the argument is simply ‘sex is important for well-being,’ there’d be no controversy. The reason people are cautious is because we’ve seen where this framing leads—whether it’s frustration, resentment, or outright entitlement when that ‘need’…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 02:35 PM
1

At the end of the day, I think the real takeaway is fix your life first, then approach dating from a position of strength rather than need. OP might not have spelt that out perfectly, but that’s what I quite easily I took from it.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 02:31 PM
2

Yeah, long-term loneliness can lead to desperation, but the difference is whether you’re actively making your life better in the meantime. If a guy is lonely and doing nothing about it except waiting for a relationship to fix it, that’s when desperation really takes hold. If you’re building a solid life (hobbies, friendships, goals) you might still feel lonely sometimes, but you won’t be as crippled by it. That’s the key difference. The guys who put their entire sense of fulfillment on getting a…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 02:27 PM
3

Fair enough. Forced singledom is brutal, and I’m not saying every guy can just "bootstrap" their way out of it like it’s that simple. Luck plays a role, and sometimes the situation really is just stacked against you. That being said, sitting in that mindset of "I'm screwed and can't do anything about it" doesn’t help either. Yeah, not everyone is built to be a monk, and yeah, women being single isn’t the same because they usually have options. But the hard truth is, we don’t have the same luxury…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 02:24 PM
3

The difference is that a kidney, blood donation, or even housing can all be provided in a neutral, impersonal way by third parties or institutions. Sex isn’t like that it’s an interpersonal act that requires mutual desire, which is why people are wary of how it’s framed. Even if OP isn’t saying people are owed sex, this framing still shapes expectations in a way that can lead to entitlement, frustration, and resentment. That’s why people push back—not because they think OP is demanding anything,…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 02:22 PM
12

I agree that men would be better off if they saw relationships as enhancing their peace rather than trying to fix loneliness or desperation. I've been preaching this for a while and that’s exactly why I said I’d rather self-improve for myself rather than for the sake of being more appealing to women. If a guy is thriving on his own, he won’t settle for a relationship that doesn’t add to his life—he won’t need to.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 02:19 PM
14

I completely agree—women have a huge advantage in dating, and modern culture only amplifies it. No matter how they act, there’s always demand for them, while men have to constantly self-improve just to be considered. And even then, there’s no guarantee. The real issue is that we, as men, don’t have much leverage to push back against behaviour we don’t like in dating. Women don’t need us the way we need them, so they set the terms, and we either play along or get left behind. That’s why you're no…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 02:15 PM
5

Pretty bleak take. Good luck.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 02:07 PM
7

If you think being single automatically means you’re a failure, you’re already setting yourself up to lose. Desperation isn’t attractive, and treating relationships as the only proof of your worth is why so many guys struggle in the first place. Plenty of people are single for reasons beyond just being "undesirable"—bad luck, high standards, or just not wanting to settle for garbage. If you think forcing a relationship is better than being single, enjoy whatever mess that leads to.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 01:30 PM
3

I get that—it’s definitely easier said than done. Loneliness is a real and difficult feeling, and I’m not saying it’s something you can just ignore. But the alternative—treating a relationship as the only solution—puts you in a position where your happiness depends on external factors you can’t fully control. That’s what leads to desperation, and desperation rarely gets good results in dating. The goal isn’t to pretend loneliness doesn’t exist, but to build a life where it’s not overwhelming. St…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 01:28 PM
5

I’m not arguing that sex and intimacy aren’t important for well-being, just like friendships, love, and family are. But words shape expectations. The reason people push back isn’t because they think lonely men secretly want sexual slavery it’s because history shows that framing sex as a ‘need’ has fueled entitlement and resentment when that need isn’t met. When people say ‘I need sex for emotional well-being,’ it can shift from self-reflection (‘I should work on attracting a partner’) to blame (…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 01:20 PM
2

You can build a life that’s genuinely fulfilling without a relationship being the only thing that makes it feel complete. The problem is when men see singledom as a failure rather than just another way of living. That mindset shift alone gives them more control and confidence, which ironically makes dating easier when they do choose to engage with it.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 01:17 PM
1

The way I see it is OP is encouraging a mindset shift so men aren’t approaching dating from a place of desperation. Yeah some women complain that men don’t approach anymore, but that’s a direct result of the current dating landscape—guys are realising that constant rejection, low success rates, and the risk of being seen as creepy make traditional approaches less appealing. If both men and women are struggling now, that just shows the system itself is off-balance. The real fix isn’t “just stop d…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 01:14 PM
1

Effort alone isn’t enough if it were, every guy aggressively pursuing dating would succeed. What actually matters is effective effort, which comes from improving yourself, understanding social dynamics, and having leverage. Just throwing yourself at the problem without strategy leads to frustration, not confidence. Men absolutely struggle with self-worth being tied to dating—if they didn’t, so many wouldn’t spiral when they have no options. Some guys disengage due to fulfilling hobbies, but most…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 01:09 PM
6

The issue is that calling sex a 'need' shifts the way people think about it, often in ways that create entitlement, even unintentionally. Your example about friendships and loving parents actually proves my point. Yes, those things are incredibly important for well-being but when people frame them as needs in the same way as food or shelter, it can lead to resentment, entitlement, and toxic behaviour when those needs aren’t met. We see this all the time in people who struggle socially and blame …
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 01:03 PM
2

I don’t think OP is saying men should just resign themselves to being single forever. The point is more about shifting the mindset from desperation to choice. Yeah, humans are social creatures, and dating is a natural part of life, but when guys see being single as a problem to solve rather than just one way to live, they approach dating from a place of lack—and that’s not attractive. Self-improvement is great, but if it’s done only for the sake of getting a partner, it’s just another form of ex…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 12:56 PM
3

Eh I think the idea that men are just “starving” while women are “fasting” frames it as purely an access issue, when in reality, mindset plays a huge role. If men collectively stopped treating singledom as some unbearable curse and actually built fulfilling lives outside of dating, they’d naturally have more leverage. A guy who’s thriving on his own isn’t “starving”—he’s just not willing to eat scraps. And ironically, that makes him more desirable in the long run. Desperation is the real killer …
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 12:51 PM
3

OP’s point didn’t necessarily come across as "be more like women" to me, but more about adopting a healthier mindset towards singledom rather than seeing it as some kind of failure. And yeah, women have had their struggles too, just in different ways. The high standards and independence we see now didn’t appear out of nowhere—they were shaped by their own experiences and history. It’s not that men haven’t been doing this at all, but that there’s still a lingering cultural expectation that being …
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 12:46 PM
4

The problem isn't whether singlehood is 'chosen' or 'imposed'—it's that men have been conditioned to fear it. Even if a woman could get into a relationship anytime, that doesn’t mean she has to, because she doesn’t see being single as some kind of existential failure. Meanwhile, men internalise the idea that being single = being inadequate, which leads to the exact kind of desperation and bitterness that makes dating even harder for them. The real issue isn’t access to relationships but that men…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 12:44 PM
6

You’re right that acknowledging something as a need doesn’t automatically mean forcing people to provide it. But it does influence the way society frames expectations and obligations around it. The reason people push back isn’t because they think OP is outright advocating coercion—it’s because this framing has historically been used to justify entitlement to sex. Blood, housing, and medical care are systemic issues society can address collectively. But sex is an interpersonal act requiring mutua…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 12:38 PM
5

Throwing yourself at the problem without any leverage isn’t a winning strategy. Desperation just makes things worse by lowering standards and making men seem less desirable. And acting like sex and companionship are the only things making men unhappy is way too simplistic. Plenty of guys get into relationships and are still miserable because they never built a fulfilling life outside of dating. If relationships were a guaranteed fix, we wouldn’t see so many unhappy couples. So it's not about giv…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 12:34 PM
0

I think you're slightly missing the mark on what OP is actually saying. It’s not about forcing yourself to be happy without dating or ignoring biological instincts but about shifting the mindset so that being single isn’t seen as a failure or something to desperately escape from and be deeply afraid of because fear of such a thing can be very influential to a man but to a detriment. Yeah, men have always leaned into work, travel, and hobbies when they don’t have a partner, but there’s often an u…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 12:27 PM
8

The concern isn’t about extreme hypotheticals; it’s about how framing sex as a ‘need’ can imply entitlement, which is what people are pushing back against.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 12:17 PM
36

When it comes down to it, I guess us guys aren't really in a position of power and are meant to work in a way that betters a woman’s peace, and if we don’t, we’re not worth dating. We’re competing with women’s singledom, and this is often what women say—and I tend to believe it. Personally, I have no patience for it and don't look around me feeling like these current women are worth any amount of work/effort. If I'm gonna self-improve, it's gonna be completely selfish—not for female validation o…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 12:15 PM
4

Yeah, this is a solid take. I've been saying for ages that a big part of the dating imbalance comes from how men and women perceive singledom. When women are fine with being single and men treat it like a personal failure, the dynamic shifts men lower their standards and overvalue relationships, while women can afford to be pickier. A lot of this comes from traditional gender roles that still linger. Men were historically expected to have a partner and a family to be seen as "successful," wherea…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 12:10 PM
21

Your argument falls apart because the distinction isn’t just about whether something is a need it’s about how that label is used in discussions. When people call something a need, it often implies some level of societal obligation or moral expectation, even if it’s not legally enforced. Your example of a blood donation proves my point. Blood is considered a medical necessity, and while donating isn’t mandatory, there are constant campaigns, incentives, and appeals to morality encouraging people …
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 09:13 AM
6

The reason people push back on calling sex a need is that it often carries the implication that others are obligated to provide it. If something isn’t necessary for survival, it’s more accurately called a want or desire, even if it’s deeply important to someone’s quality of life.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 09:09 AM
2

Not really. That's for deeper reasons. Don't fear monger by spreading shit like that.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 09:06 AM
15

Yes.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 09:04 AM
13

The foundation of your point doesn't work.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 08:58 AM
18

You keep saying you’re not arguing whether sex is or isn’t a need, yet your entire post relies on people accepting that it is. If you refuse to explain why calling it a “need” is important, then why should anyone accept the premise of your analogy? You also keep pushing this idea that people reject your claim out of “convenience,” but that’s just a lazy way to dismiss valid counterarguments. The disagreement isn’t about personal implications but whether your comparison holds up logically. If you…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 08:56 AM
16

You can’t “debunk a straw man” when your entire premise relies on an unproven assumption. Your analogy only works if sex is a fundamental need, like food or medical care. That’s the very point people are challenging. Saying “I’m not arguing whether sex is or is not a need” while using an analogy that depends on sex being a need is self-contradictory. If the foundation of your argument doesn’t hold up, the comparison falls apart. People pushing back on that aren’t “derailing” or “spamming.” They’…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 08:52 AM
7

I think this misinterprets Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs and falsely equates “sex” with an essential physiological requirement like food, water, or oxygen. Maslow included sex in the physiological needs category, but he wasn’t referring to personal sexual gratification he was talking about reproduction. That’s why “sex” is listed alongside things like air and sleep, which are necessary for sustaining life at a species level, not on an individual basis. Even if you accept a broader definition where…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 08:49 AM
32

Calling sex a "need" in this context often comes with the implication that society or others are obligated to provide it. That’s why people push back against it. No one is saying that acknowledging the importance of intimacy is the same as endorsing coercion—the problem is pretending it belongs in the same category as life-sustaining medical treatments
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 08:43 AM
1

Women having free will isn’t the issue no one is saying women shouldn’t have choices. The issue is that society recognizes systemic problems when they disadvantage women but calls it "natural selection" when men are struggling. That’s the hypocrisy. Telling men to "stop simping" and "stop marrying slutty women" is a non-solution. The idea that men could collectively shift the dating market through discipline is a fantasy just like telling women to stop chasing the top 10% of men wouldn’t work. T…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/25 12:04 AM
3

I think there are still major inconsistencies in your argument. You argue that when men face disadvantages today, it’s just the ‘loss of an unfair advantage.’ But that framing assumes that all disparities in men’s favour were illegitimate, while all disparities in women’s favour today are just natural shifts. That’s selective reasoning. A disadvantage is a disadvantage, regardless of history. The fact that men used to have more power doesn’t make their current struggles any less real or worthy o…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/25 10:34 PM
5

The imbalance isn’t just about “men being hornier.” That’s a reductive way to frame it. The dating market has changed because cultural shifts and technology have given women more options while maintaining traditional expectations for men. Women are making choices that contribute to the imbalance—choosing higher standards, prioritising careers over relationships, and gravitating toward the top percentage of men. That’s their right, but it does create a system where a large portion of men are stru…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/25 10:26 PM
10

That’s a convenient way to avoid addressing the problem. Men do need to take responsibility for their issues but how exactly are they supposed to do that when every attempt to even talk about those issues is shut down, dismissed, or framed as misogyny? You’re proving my point. Instead of engaging with the reality that men’s issues are consistently sidelined, you’re just shifting the blame back onto men, as if the roadblocks to discussing these issues don’t exist. When women face systemic challen…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/25 09:50 PM
8

So you’re admitting that feminists only started addressing men’s issues after conservatives and anti-woke groups did? That just proves my point feminism didn’t advocate for men out of genuine concern, it only did so as a reaction to maintain ideological control. If feminism actually cared about male issues, why did it wait until others brought them up? When feminists did engage, it wasn’t about actually solving men’s problems. It was about framing them in a way that still blamed men. That’s why …
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/25 09:48 PM
3

That’s true, but it doesn’t negate the issue. Boys get diagnosed more often because their symptoms tend to be more external (hyperactivity, impulsiveness, disruptive behaviour), while girls often present with more internalized symptoms (inattention, daydreaming, social withdrawal), which leads to underdiagnosis in girls. The problem isn’t that boys are diagnosed more—it’s that their natural behaviours are increasingly treated as problems that need medical intervention, rather than schools adapti…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/25 09:40 PM
6

The fact that girls go undiagnosed for ADHD doesn’t change the fact that boys are disproportionately punished for acting like they have it. Boys' natural behaviours—higher energy, impulsivity, and physicality—lead to more suspensions, disciplinary actions, and misdiagnoses, which negatively affects their education and self-perception. Meanwhile, the way ADHD presents in girls is often quieter, so it flies under the radar. Both issues exist, but only one gets sympathy. As for school structure, or…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/25 09:38 PM
5

Your logic is flawed. Yes, historically, men created societal structures—including marriage, dating norms, and workplace hierarchies. But that history doesn’t justify dismissing modern disadvantages that men now face. A disadvantage is a disadvantage, no matter how it develops. You’re basically arguing that because women were once oppressed in these systems, any shift that now disadvantages men is just ‘balance being restored’ rather than a new inequality that deserves attention. But we don’t ap…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/25 09:35 PM
4

I see where you’re coming from, but I think your framing is inconsistent. You justify women blaming men for systemic issues like the wage gap by saying they’re 'blaming a system put in place by men,' yet when men critique modern dating dynamics—a system shaped by both historical structures and modern female choices—it’s suddenly an unfair demand on women’s 'personal power' and 'autonomy.' That’s a double standard. Women aren’t just blaming ‘a system’ when they talk about the wage gap; they frequ…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/25 08:17 PM
10

I get the concern about 'women-blaming' groups, I think you’re overlooking something thought: the vast majority of mainstream feminist spaces do blame men for women's struggles. Every discussion on gendered issues in society—from the wage gap to harassment to gender roles—centres men as the cause of women's problems. Yet, when men talk about how modern dating expectations, shifting social dynamics, or societal attitudes toward masculinity contribute to their struggles, suddenly it’s 'blame isn’t…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/25 07:36 PM
5

"Acting like a boy" generally means being more energetic, rough, competitive, or physical—traits that are natural for many boys but are now seen as behavioural problems in schools. Boys are more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD, punished for disruptive behaviour, and told to “calm down” in environments that cater more to quiet, orderly learning styles that favour girls. As for your point about women being seen as "the means to production," that just reinforces the idea that men are disposable. Y…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/25 06:56 PM
9

Because holding someone socially responsible and holding them legally responsible are two different things. No one is saying all men should be arrested for what a minority of men do, but men as a group are often blamed for issues caused by a small percentage. If a CEO underpays women, it’s framed as “the wage gap is caused by men.” If a handful of powerful men are creeps, the message becomes “men need to do better.” If a woman has a bad dating experience, it turns into “men are trash.” Meanwhile…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/25 06:54 PM
7

Because feminism and progressivism changed how relationships work, and not in a way that benefits the average man. Women now have higher standards, more options, and less pressure to settle down, while men still have the same expectations to provide, lead, and initiate. Online dating skews everything even more, with most women competing for the top percentage of men, leaving the rest struggling. When men bring this up, they get dismissed as bitter or misogynistic instead of anyone actually addre…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/25 06:53 PM
23

This is a reach. You’re basically arguing that a poor 21-year-old man today somehow benefits from a system where men dominated higher education decades ago—as if that legacy magically grants him success now. Meanwhile, in reality, men are now the minority in universities, struggling more academically, and have fewer targeted support systems compared to women. Your argument also assumes that every man automatically gets encouragement from family, advisors, and society just for being male. That’s …
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/25 06:48 PM
14

Your argument boils down to "men have always had it easier, so any struggles they face now are just a skill issue and don’t warrant support." That’s a lazy take. Yes, historically, women faced systemic barriers that required correction. No one is denying that. But the playing field has shifted, and now men are struggling in ways that are measurable—education gaps, higher suicide rates, homelessness, and declining economic power. Ignoring these issues because “well, men had it easier in the past”…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/25 06:46 PM
26

A lot of young men feel lost because traditional pathways to success—good job, stable income, homeownership, fulfilling relationships—are way harder to achieve now. Meanwhile, society constantly criticizes masculinity but doesn't offer a clear alternative, leaving guys feeling like they can't win. Education is pushing boys out, dating is more competitive than ever (especially with online dating skewing things), and many grow up without strong male role models. When guys feel like they’re struggl…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/25 06:43 PM
9

It's a talking point used to make feminism more palatable to men and potentially gain more allies.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/25 06:34 PM
12

The solution is for feminists to stop talking about male issues and quit pretending to care just to manipulate men into being allies. Equality is not the real goal.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/25 02:20 PM
15

I think the hyperfocus on women’s rights and feminism has made it incredibly difficult for men to even start that conversation without backlash. How can men feel comfortable speaking up when every attempt at discussing male struggles is either ignored, reframed as a distraction from women’s issues, or labeled as misogyny? The few visible 'men’s rights' spaces online tend to get dismissed as woman-hating, so even genuine discussions about men’s struggles don’t get taken seriously. If you genuinel…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/25 01:38 PM
3

I get what you're saying, and I agree that being too closed off can become its own kind of prison. But I think the real issue is that a lot of guys don’t feel like they have a ‘safe’ middle ground. Being too open makes them vulnerable to being taken advantage of, but being too closed off isolates them. A lot of men struggle to find the balance between caution and connection, especially when modern social norms don’t always reward vulnerability in men the way they do for others. And yeah, walking…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/25 11:15 AM
25

Yep. Been preaching this for a while. Red pillers especially hate hearing it though. Biological determinism is a hell of a drug.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/25 11:13 AM
31

So I actually agree that men should take responsibility for their issues rather than expecting women or feminism to solve them. The problem is that this contradicts the mainstream feminist claim that "feminism helps men too." That’s the real hypocrisy here. On one hand, mainstream feminism and progressive spaces constantly say "feminism fights for men’s issues too!" But when men actually bring up their struggles, the response is something akin to your post. If feminism were truly about gender eq…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/25 11:11 AM
49

Yep. Romance is great, but if you see it as a cure for loneliness rather than a part of a fulfilling life, you’re setting yourself up for disappointment.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/25 11:02 AM
7

You make a fair point—being constantly paranoid and treating every social interaction as a potential scam or loss isn’t a great way to live. If you assume bad intentions in everyone, you’re going to push people away and make it harder to form genuine connections. Yeah, the world has bad actors, but shutting yourself off from everyone out of fear just guarantees loneliness. That said this ignores why so many guys feel this way. Modern social dynamics whether in dating, friendships, or work have m…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/25 10:59 AM
2

Thank you
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 11:32 PM
0

Right. I don't think whatever that genetic thing is we're at its mercy, however. We're not cavemen anymore.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 11:31 PM
1

Boom. You get it!
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 11:24 PM
1

I'm relieved you think so.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 11:24 PM
0

Jesus only on Reddit... Good luck man.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 11:19 PM
1

Empty rhetoric. If you disagree, make an argument.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 11:15 PM
1

Because what happens if she leaves? If the only thing keeping your self-worth intact is your relationship, then you don’t actually have self-worth—you have borrowed stability. That’s the issue. I’m not saying relationships can’t be fulfilling—I’m saying a man should still be whole without one. If losing it would break you, then it wasn’t a solution. It was just a temporary shield from the real problem.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 11:07 PM
2

I get what you’re saying, and I agree—this belief is deeply ingrained in society. But that’s exactly why it needs to be challenged. The idea that a man’s most profound experiences must come from the love of a woman isn’t some universal truth—it’s conditioning. And I’m not saying ‘just don’t depend on women’ with no alternative. The real alternative is intrinsic self-worth. That means building a life where your fulfillment isn’t contingent on a relationship. That can come from purpose, mastery, p…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 11:01 PM
2

You just proved my argument. You’re not saying you ‘grew’—you’re saying you became dependent on your wife to fill a need you never addressed yourself. That’s exactly the issue. You compared it to hunger, but that’s a flawed analogy. Hunger is a biological necessity—without food, you die. But relationships aren’t the same. If your entire sense of self collapses the moment your wife stops validating you, that’s not just a ‘need’ being filled—that’s dependency. I’m not saying relationships don’t ad…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 10:59 PM
1

But being single is lesser evil than relationship with a wrong person. Agreed and one's desperation for female validation could end up matching them up with said wrong person.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 10:46 PM
1

No, you take it as whatever lets you avoid addressing my argument. I don’t post because I need to personally stake my entire identity on every discussion—I post because I find topics interesting to debate. If you can’t engage with what’s being said without trying to make it about me, that’s on you. You’re still dodging. If my position is so unclear, you wouldn’t be this desperate to misframe it.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 10:36 PM
1

I’m not dismissing your relationship or the impact your wife had on you. A great partner can absolutely provide love, and support, and even inspire personal growth. But ultimately, sustained change has to come from within. If your wife helped you grow, that’s amazing—but the reason it worked is because you were open to that change. The problem is when men believe a relationship alone will ‘fix’ them without any personal effort. That mindset leads to dependency, not growth. Your experience shows …
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 10:34 PM
1

Those men are victims of the same conditioning. We don't have to be this way however.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 10:26 PM
3

Ask Turnitin. My writing isn't the most... expressive. Years of essay writing does that to you.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 10:22 PM
1

At this point, we’re just going in circles. You can keep insisting men are powerless against social conditioning, but that’s not an argument—it’s just learned helplessness. If that’s the mindset you want to stay in, that’s your choice. But don’t expect everyone else to do the same. Shockingly some of us DON'T want men to regress and decay into nothing whilst women continue to improve.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 10:20 PM
2

Well said. Thank you for the convo!
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 10:13 PM
1

No clue.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 10:12 PM
1

Whether I personally believe it or not is irrelevant. It was a topic I found interesting on that day at that time—simple as that. If you actually had a counterargument to what I’m saying here, you wouldn’t need to dig up past posts to force a contradiction that doesn’t exist. Again bad faith.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 10:12 PM
2

Sorry you feel that way. Good luck.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 09:56 PM
2

That means a lot man thanks. I was losing faith a bit with all this disagreement.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 09:55 PM
1

Well said.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 09:47 PM
1

Intent matters because it shapes the outcome. If someone isolates out of bitterness, they stay stuck in negativity. If someone detaches to build a fulfilling life on their own terms, they grow stronger. Both may lack romantic connections, but only one is actually thriving. Not all disconnection is the same—some of it is a conscious choice for personal well-being, and that distinction is what you’re ignoring.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 09:45 PM
1

I hate how easy to grift we are. Well said.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 09:43 PM
1

Quoting a different post with a different focus doesn’t prove my position changed—it just proves you’re desperate to force a contradiction. I post based on what I think will be interesting to debate and will get a lot of engagement. It's not personal. If you have to go post-hunting instead of engaging with what I’m actually saying here, you’re just looking for an easy way out instead of addressing the argument. This is bad faith.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 09:42 PM
0

You’re acting like I need to cite case studies to prove a basic concept—men who rely on external validation will struggle when that validation disappears. This isn’t a controversial point; it happens everywhere, from high-status men in the public eye to everyday guys who spiral after a bad breakup. If you need a specific example, look at Andrew Tate’s meltdown(s) over being ‘betrayed’ by a woman he trusted—his entire persona is built on frame and detachment, yet even he couldn’t emotionally hand…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 09:37 PM
1

I don't really get this writing style man but it's not for me. Cheers for the debate even if it was one of the weirder ones here. Don't fancy talking in circles... Bye.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 09:28 PM
5

Yeah sorry you have to hear all that. Kind of wish this sub had more women in it because you guys seem to get my point a lot more which is unsurprising I guess.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 09:26 PM
1

Ok so what now? By your logic, no claim about happiness is verifiable. If I can’t prove men who detach are truly happy, then you also can’t prove they’re secretly miserable or just coping. You’re dismissing one idea as speculation while making another equally speculative claim. The reality is, some men report being happier after detaching from romantic validation. Can I prove their happiness under a microscope? No. If your entire argument is ‘we can never really know,’ then you don’t actually ha…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 09:25 PM
1

You’re still trying to frame this as me ‘backtracking’ instead of just admitting you misunderstood from the start. My position hasn’t changed—I’ve consistently said that needing a relationship for self-worth is a problem, not that men should avoid relationships entirely. If you think that’s a "harmless position no one disagrees with," then why are you even arguing? You’re just trying to shift the debate to save face instead of addressing the actual point. Also here's a challenge. Show me where m…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 09:10 PM
1

Sure. Never disagreed with that position. Dependency is never healthy though.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 09:06 PM
1

You’re not addressing my actual argument—you’re just reframing it to make it easier to dismiss. My point has always been that dependency on relationships for self-worth is unhealthy, not that men should avoid relationships altogether. That was clear from the start. And ‘feeling whole’ is only vague if you’re intentionally pretending not to understand. There’s a difference between valuing a relationship and needing one to function. If you think men must have one to feel complete, you’re just prov…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 09:05 PM
1

You’re not actually countering my argument—you’re just rewording it and acting like you’ve proven something. Yes, most men want relationships. That was never in question. The issue is dependency—the belief that you need one to function. And no, saying men shouldn’t be controlled by their instincts isn’t the same as saying men should never marry or have kids. Self-control doesn’t mean rejection—it means not letting your entire self-worth be dictated by whether or not you succeed at something. Tha…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 09:03 PM
1

Or it just means people are strawmanning instead of engaging in good faith. If multiple people misrepresent an argument the same way, it usually says more about their biases than the argument itself. A clear position doesn’t mean people won’t twist it—especially when it challenges their worldview
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 08:58 PM
1

A relationship can add to your life, but it shouldn’t be the only thing that makes it feel worth living. Otherwise, you’re just using it as a coping mechanism for an underlying emptiness
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 08:57 PM
1

Now you’re just making things up. No one said men should ‘get addicted to drugs and video games’ or stop socialising. The point is that men should build fulfillment for themselves, not just as a way to ‘earn’ a relationship. If a man can only stay motivated by chasing women, that’s not strength—it’s dependency. Improving yourself is great, but if your entire drive comes from external validation, what happens when you don’t get it? That’s the weakness. A truly strong man is productive because he …
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 08:56 PM
2

Uh huh 😂
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 08:52 PM
2

A bad actor agreeing with something doesn’t make the idea itself bad. If a 4B guy says exercise is good, does that mean fitness is now extremist? No. The difference is in intent—MGTOW and 4B reject relationships out of resentment, while I’m talking about rejecting dependency for stability. You keep dodging that distinction because it’s easier to strawman than engage.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 08:51 PM
2

You’re just repeating ‘sex is everything’ like it’s a universal truth when it’s just your personal experience. If men only cared about sex and not validation, they wouldn’t spiral emotionally after dry spells, they wouldn’t chase women who mistreat them, and they wouldn’t beg for relationships. You keep saying ‘men aren’t like that,’ but reality proves otherwise. Also, your obsession with calling me a woman because I challenge male dependency is hilarious. If the only way you can defend your arg…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 08:49 PM
1

All I can say is good luck to us both.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 08:44 PM
1

Caring about success in dating isn’t the issue—needing success to feel like you matter is. There’s a difference between improving yourself to increase your chances and basing your entire sense of worth on whether women validate you. The first is self-improvement; the second is dependency. And no one’s saying men should never feel bad about being single. Feeling lonely is human. The problem is when that loneliness turns into desperation—when a man believes his happiness is only possible through a…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 08:43 PM
1

That depends on why they do it. If it’s coming from bitterness or resentment, then no, it’s not making them stronger—it’s just avoidance. But if someone genuinely finds more fulfillment outside of relationships and builds their life around something else, then cutting out a system that doesn’t serve them can be a form of strength. Strength isn’t about conforming to what society expects—it’s about making choices that align with your own values and well-being.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 08:41 PM
1

Sounds good to me 😂
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 08:38 PM
0

You’re arguing against a point I never made. I never said all relationships are about external validation—I said needing one to feel whole is a problem. Big difference. And no, your body doesn’t ‘crave’ relationships the same way it craves sleep. You won’t die or suffer biological damage without a relationship. If that were true, single men would be dropping like flies. Having a desire for connection is natural, but acting like it’s an unstoppable force is just an excuse to stay dependent on it.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 08:35 PM
2

I'm 21 but yeah we will hopefully start catching up. Looks like we're regressing if anything though... Also, could you help me out. I'm not advocating for men to be eternally single, and celibate and reject women and relationships. I’m saying they shouldn’t be dependent on them for self-worth. Am I miswording my point or are people just misunderstanding?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 08:28 PM
0

It’s not about ‘replacing’ romance—it’s about not being dependent on it for self-worth. If a man can’t function without female validation, that’s a problem, regardless of what else he has in life. Hobbies, friendships, purpose—those things matter, but the core issue is mindset.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 08:26 PM
1

Yeah, the contradictions are annoying.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 08:24 PM
1

You keep contradicting yourself while pretending your personal belief is an objective truth. If sex was the ultimate meaning of life, then sexually active men would never feel empty, and celibate people wouldn’t be fulfilled. Reality proves otherwise. If you want to believe otherwise, that’s on you. I’m not wasting more time on circular arguments. Have something intelligent to say or move on.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 08:22 PM
1

Ok. Like I said relationships should add to an already good life, not be the thing that makes life good. You people are either illiterate or just like to argue for the sake of it. Nowhere here am I saying relationships are useless or that men should swear off women.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 08:19 PM
1

Fair enough
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 08:17 PM
1

To an extent.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 08:16 PM
6

It’s funny how, instead of engaging with the argument, you’re trying to psychoanalyze me like that somehow discredits what I’m saying. Even if I were personally struggling with this issue, that wouldn’t make the argument any less valid. But if you actually read my posts, you’d see I’m not just talking about myself—I’m talking about a widespread mindset that affects a lot of men. If your takeaway is ‘Why do you care so much?’ instead of ‘Does this argument hold up?’ then you’re avoiding the conve…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 08:15 PM
2

You’re getting emotional instead of engaging with the argument. No one said men are ‘personally responsible for being brainwashed.’ What I said is that once you recognise the conditioning, you decide whether or not to let it control you. That’s not denial of external forces—that’s basic agency. And your whole argument hinges on the idea that ‘no men ever stop chasing validation, they just get their needs met.’ That’s just flat-out wrong. Plenty of men detach from the idea that their worth is tie…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 08:14 PM
1

Agreed.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 08:11 PM
1

I don’t need to name specific men to prove a general pattern. It isn’t necessary for a conceptual discussion like this. You can look at high-status men—celebrities, influencers, even Red Pill figures—who’ve had tons of success with women but still fall apart after a bad breakup or dry spell. If confidence were just about ‘stacking wins,’ these men wouldn’t spiral the moment the external validation stops. That alone proves my point. And no, a truly confident man isn’t a fantasy—it’s just not as c…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 08:11 PM
1

Men’s self worth is just their own perception. It’s just wanting a woman. It’s their decision to tie their self worth to it. They can get jobs, healthcare, and education without needing a woman. No one has to validate his experience for him to continue living life. There are no barriers to him being single. Just wanting to not be single. I have other people to debate and respond to, so I can’t keep entertaining your other talking points—especially when they stray from my main argument. But this …
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 08:07 PM
7

This is why I don’t like how reliant some guys are on the ‘It’S bIoLoGy’ argument—it comes dangerously close to implying that women owe men sex just because it’s supposedly essential for our survival and well-being.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 07:55 PM
1

Yes. Shocker that's also toxic but I like to avoid preaching to women about their own toxic behaviour. Their peers can do that or not do that. I don't care.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 07:52 PM
1

But that’s not an argument—it’s just unfalsifiable speculation. Yes, some people struggle with introspection, but that applies across the board. Plenty of people in relationships also convince themselves they’re happy when they’re not. The difference is that at least some men demonstrably detach from the need for female validation, and their lives improve as a result. If it was impossible, we wouldn’t see it happen at all. The fact that it does happen proves that conditioning can be overcome. Yo…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 07:50 PM
1

Agree to disagree then. I have too many other comments to respond to, so I’m not going to go back and forth on this. Cheers.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 07:44 PM
0

It's sad as hell.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 07:42 PM
2

Jesus. You’re arguing against a point I never made. I never said men should "walk away from dating entirely"—I literally clarified in my post that wanting a relationship is normal. My issue is with men who need one to feel whole. That’s not a meaningless distinction; it’s the entire foundation of the argument. You even acknowledged that if a man "cannot tolerate a second of being single and will rush into toxic relationships," you agree that’s a problem. That is the problem I’m addressing. So un…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 07:42 PM
1

Instincts don’t dictate how we live—they just influence our behavior. If we were purely ruled by instincts, we’d still be living in caves, fighting for resources, and mating without thought. But we don’t—because humans have self-awareness, discipline, and the ability to override instincts in favor of long-term fulfillment. Yes, men have a biological drive for relationships, sex, and reproduction—but so what? We also have a biological drive for sugar and fat, but that doesn’t mean we should let i…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 07:29 PM
0

Thank you Turnitin.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 07:24 PM
3

If failing to reproduce makes you a “genetic failure,” then every man who doesn’t have kids is a failure by default. But funny enough, most men aren’t walking around feeling like their lives are meaningless just because they haven’t passed on their DNA. Why? Because human fulfillment isn’t solely defined by reproduction. You’re confusing evolutionary incentives with personal well-being. Yes, your DNA wants you to reproduce—but your DNA doesn’t care about your happiness, mental health, or the qua…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 07:24 PM
1

Appreciate it.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 07:18 PM
1

You’re right that women also face social pressure, but the difference is in what they’re pressured to value. Women are conditioned to optimize their attractiveness. They’re told their worth is based on being desired, looking good, and securing a high-status partner. This is why beauty standards, makeup, and fashion industries exist. Men, on the other hand, are conditioned to optimize for approval. They’re told their worth is based on whether they’re wanted at all. A woman can still feel socially…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 07:17 PM
0

That’s a false equivalence. Friendship and socializing are not the same as romantic relationships and dating. Everyone needs some level of social interaction—that’s a basic human need. But romantic validation, sex, and relationships are not on the same level as basic human connection. If what you were saying was true, then every single person without a romantic partner would be in the same state of suffering as someone with zero friends, family, or social connections. But that’s obviously not th…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 07:15 PM
1

You’re contradicting yourself again. You just said, “You can make anything have meaning or value”—which means sex and relationships aren’t inherently more meaningful than anything else. If meaning is subjective, then my argument stands: Men don’t need sex or relationships to live a fulfilling life. You’re also making a false comparison. Not having sex isn’t the same as starving yourself or disabling your body—because unlike food, sex isn’t a survival necessity. You won’t die without it. You won’…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 06:34 PM
6

Your brain thinks you need women, but that doesn’t mean it’s right. If you were truly starving for food, your body would shut down. If you were starving for sex, you’d… be frustrated. That’s it. The fact that seeing an attractive woman makes you depressed proves my point—it’s not just about sex, it’s about what not having sex represents to you. If this was purely biological, you’d just feel arousal, not sadness. The suffering you’re describing isn’t from a lack of intimacy—it’s from the belief t…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 06:30 PM
2

I do see some contradictions in RP but for the most part I agree and well said.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 06:28 PM
1

True. We can be our own worst enemy.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 06:23 PM
2

The fact that your first instinct is to claim I must be a woman just for challenging male dependency proves how fragile this entire mindset is. Instead of engaging with the argument, you default to “You must not really be a man if you don’t think exactly like me.” That’s not logic—that’s insecurity. You say men only want sex and not validation? Then explain why so many men stay in miserable relationships just to avoid being single. Explain why men chase women who clearly don’t respect them. Expl…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 06:21 PM
3

You’re acting like emotional independence is some slippery slope to extremism, but that’s just projection. Not needing romantic validation isn’t “step one” toward resentment—it’s step one toward actual stability. The fact that you lump MGTOW, 4B, and what I’m saying into the same category shows you don’t actually understand the distinction. MGTOW and 4B are based on resentment, blame, and reactionary detachment. What I’m saying is about rejecting dependency—not rejecting relationships. The two a…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 06:18 PM
2

Water ≠ Women
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 06:13 PM
1

You keep shifting between arguments—first, romance is a basic need, then it’s about reproduction, then it’s about loneliness, then it’s about validation. So which is it? Because those aren’t the same thing. Of course, humans crave connection. No one is arguing that isolation is good. But romantic dependence isn’t the same as basic social needs. That’s why plenty of men live happy, fulfilling lives without being in relationships. If romantic love was truly a biological requirement, single men wou…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 06:13 PM
2

Water ≠ Women
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 06:04 PM
4

No one’s saying people shouldn’t want relationships. The issue is when people feel incomplete without one. Wanting companionship is normal. Feeling like your life is empty without it? That’s dependency. If relationships were a pure biological necessity, single people would be physically incapable of living happy, fulfilling lives. But we already know that’s not true—plenty of people, both men and women, find deep purpose outside of relationships. That proves this is more about conditioning than …
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 06:01 PM
2

You just proved my point. Men aren’t just struggling with singleness—they’re struggling because they’ve been conditioned to believe that being single makes them inferior. That’s why rejection, dry spells, or breakups hit so hard—because men are socially pressured to see their worth through the lens of female approval. If being single was just about personal preference, men wouldn’t feel “humiliated” over it. But they do, because society treats male desirability as something that has to be earned…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 05:58 PM
1

I get what you’re saying—some activities require a partner, and relationships fall into that category for people who want sex or companionship. But the issue isn’t about whether having a partner is sometimes necessary—it’s about how much power that need has over you. You can enjoy tennis, but if you don’t have a partner to play with, your entire self-worth doesn’t collapse. You don’t feel like a failure or spiral into depression just because no one’s available for a match. But a lot of men do fe…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 05:55 PM
1

I think this affects men... differently to say the least.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 05:47 PM
3

Well said.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 05:46 PM
0

No one’s saying men shouldn’t learn from experience. The issue is that if your confidence is built entirely on “winning,” then you’re not actually confident—you’re just riding momentum. Real confidence isn’t something that only exists when things are going well. It’s what’s left when everything goes wrong. If confidence was purely about stacking wins, then why do so many men who have had success with women still spiral after a dry spell or a bad breakup? Because their confidence was never intern…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 05:44 PM
3

I get that you’re being sarcastic, but the comparison still doesn’t hold. Civil rights movements weren’t fought because people were lonely or horny—they were fought because people were being denied legal rights, bodily autonomy, and equal treatment. The fight for gay marriage, reproductive rights, and anti-sterilization laws wasn’t about ensuring people could have sex or relationships—it was about freedom, dignity, and protection under the law. Equating that to a man struggling to find a girlfri…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 05:41 PM
2

If TRP was just about “sexual strategy,” no one would take issue with it. But that’s not what it is. It’s not just teaching men how to navigate dating—it’s reinforcing the idea that a man’s value is defined by how well he performs in the sexual marketplace. That’s exactly what keeps men in the cycle of validation-seeking. Your football analogy doesn’t hold up. A player’s worth as a person isn’t based on goals scored—it’s just a measure of performance in a game. But Red Pill isn’t just measuring …
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 05:36 PM
-1

I never said women don’t have their own struggles. No one is denying that society pressures women in different ways. But you’re dodging the actual argument—how male self-worth is uniquely tied to dating success in a way that female self-worth isn’t. Women are judged for how they look, sure. But men are judged for whether they can get a woman in the first place. Women might feel invisible in certain areas of life, but single men are invisible everywhere. They don’t just get dismissed—they get ign…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 05:33 PM
5

Wanting a relationship is normal. Needing a relationship to feel whole is not. That’s the entire distinction I’ve been making, and you keep glossing over it. Yes, men naturally desire intimacy, just like they naturally desire food, security, and social connection. The issue is that men are conditioned to place their entire sense of self-worth on whether they succeed in dating. That’s why rejection feels like failure instead of just a missed opportunity. That’s why men chase toxic relationships r…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 05:28 PM
1

You just admitted that people respond differently to rejection, so you’ve already disproven your own point. If this was purely about biology, all men would react the same way. But they don’t—some spiral, some don’t. That proves rejection isn’t just some unchangeable primal instinct—it’s also about conditioning, experience, and mindset. And yeah, modern society has evolved past cavemen instincts—that’s exactly why men can also evolve past the belief that their value is tied to reproduction. If we…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 05:21 PM
2

You’re repeating the same mistake—confusing a biological drive with a biological need. Yeah, men are wired to want sex, but that doesn’t mean they must have it to function. If sex was truly a fundamental need, every celibate man would be dead—and that’s obviously not the case. And saying men will “do whatever it takes” to get sex isn’t an argument—it’s just proof of how deeply ingrained this mindset is. If you believe sex is so important that you’re willing to endure rejection, disrespect, and m…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 05:18 PM
2

You’re throwing a lot of words at the wall, but your argument boils down to “sex and relationships are the ultimate human experience, so nothing else can compare.” But that’s just an opinion—not a universal truth. If sex was the only thing that made life fulfilling, celibate monks wouldn’t exist. Men who thrive without relationships wouldn’t exist. But they do—so clearly, sex isn’t the only source of meaning. You’re acting like men trying to build meaning outside of sex and relationships are jus…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 05:13 PM
1

If this were true, every single man would eventually break down, and that’s just not reality. There are men who have been single for years—even decades—and they aren’t “worn down” or suffocated by it. That alone proves that this “psychic pain” isn’t an inevitability—it’s a belief. The only men who suffer endlessly without a relationship are the ones who were conditioned to believe they can’t be whole without one. That’s the entire issue. If you convince yourself that life is meaningless without …
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 05:11 PM
1

You could transpose men and women, but the reality is that men suffer from this issue way more. If this were purely a "human issue," we wouldn’t see such a massive disparity in dating effort, rejection rates, and how men vs. women react to being single. The reason this is a gendered issue is because men are taught their worth is earned—through success, status, and whether they can attract women. Meanwhile, women are taught their worth is inherent—they receive attention just by existing. That’s w…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 05:08 PM
1

You’re still acting like relationships are as fundamental as food, water, and air. They’re not. If they were, every single man without a partner would be permanently miserable—and that’s just not reality. There are millions of men who live fulfilling, productive lives without being dependent on a woman’s validation. That alone proves it’s possible. And let’s talk about your “1%” claim. That’s just something you made up. Plenty of men find meaning in mastery, legacy, discipline, creation, leaders…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 05:06 PM
8

You’re acting like external conditioning = zero personal responsibility. That’s not how it works. Yes, society conditions men to tie their worth to female validation, but conditioning can be unlearned. The fact that most men don’t escape it doesn’t mean it’s impossible—it just means most men never challenge it. And I never said “just get over it, bro.” I said men need to stop letting it control them. That’s not the same thing. Overcoming conditioning isn’t about ignoring it—it’s about recognizin…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 05:00 PM
2

Sure, biology plays a role—no one’s denying that. But the question isn’t whether men have a drive to find a mate, it’s why that drive is so emotionally destructive for some men and not others. If it was purely biology, men would experience rejection and just move on to the next opportunity, like animals do in the wild. But that’s not what happens. Men internalize it as failure, humiliation, and personal inadequacy. That’s not instinct—that’s social programming. Biology gives men a sex drive, but…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 04:57 PM
1

No one’s saying men should be lone wolves—just that their self-worth shouldn’t depend on whether women want them. There’s a huge difference between valuing connection and needing it to feel whole. The second you need it, you’re at the mercy of something you can’t control. And sure, connection matters—but why is it only romantic validation that so many men feel lost without? That’s the issue. If men valued all forms of connection the way they do romantic success, they wouldn’t struggle nearly as …
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 04:51 PM
10

Interdependence isn’t the problem—dependence is. There’s a difference between two people choosing to rely on each other from a place of strength and one person feeling incomplete without the other. That’s the difference between a healthy relationship and a desperate one. And I agree—if someone fears that relationships will take away their independence, that can be a problem. But let’s be real—that’s not the issue most men are facing. The issue is that too many men think they need relationships t…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 04:49 PM
3

You’re making the same mistake again—confusing a biological drive with a biological need. Hunger and thirst are needs. You die without them. Romantic validation is not. That’s why plenty of men who struggle with women fall apart while others become stronger—it’s not about biology, it’s about mindset. Yeah, humans are wired to want relationships, but we’re also wired for self-control, resilience, and adaptation. If our instincts were absolute, we’d be cavemen who couldn’t resist any impulse. The …
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 04:46 PM
6

No one’s saying love isn’t meaningful. But the issue isn’t love—it’s dependency. If you think romantic love is the best part of life, that’s fine. The problem is when men believe they can’t be whole without it, which is exactly why so many struggle when they don’t get it. You say that being able to form strong relationships is a sign of being well-adjusted, and I agree. But the inverse isn’t automatically true—choosing to detach from dependency on romantic validation doesn’t mean someone is brok…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 04:41 PM
6

No one’s saying women can’t be fun or offer companionship. The issue is when men feel like they can’t be happy without it. Yeah, people want love—but there’s a difference between wanting love and needing it to feel whole. Too many guys think relationships are the only path to fulfillment, which is why they settle, tolerate bad behavior, and feel like failures when things don’t work out. Relationships should add to an already good life, not be the thing that makes life good. If a man is miserable…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 04:37 PM
1

So we’ve now arrived at the real conclusion—Red Pill was never about empowering men, just giving them a way to cope with a system they believe is rigged. You’re now outright admitting that Red Pill is just a short-term dating strategy, that there’s no such thing as ‘keeping’ women, and that men should either ‘enjoy the decline’ or reject dating entirely. But at that point, what’s the difference between Red Pill and Black Pill? If the end result is still ‘men don’t have power, modern relationship…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 04:36 PM
1

I guess.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 04:24 PM
2

You’re mixing up romantic dependence with basic human connection. No one is saying men should live in isolation—having friendships, a strong community, and a social life is important. What I’m saying is that men shouldn’t tie their self-worth to romantic success or female validation. Yeah, validation matters—to a degree. But not all validation is equal. The problem is when men make romantic validation the center of their self-esteem and feel like failures without it. That’s exactly why so many g…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 04:07 PM
1

I’m aware that TRP existed long before Kevin Samuels, but his messaging is a good example of how even the ‘self-improvement’ side of Red Pill thinking was still built around optimizing for women’s approval, not genuine independence. Whether it was MRAs trying to ‘change the game,’ MGTOW opting out, or PUAs mastering it, the underlying assumption across all three was that men’s struggles were centred around women’s role in society—not the deeper issue of how men define themselves. And no, I’m not…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 04:03 PM
5

You hit on something important—you can’t control whether others are attracted to you, but you can control what you build for yourself. The issue is that a lot of men are told that a relationship and a family are the ultimate purpose of life, and when that doesn’t happen, they feel like they have nothing. But here’s the truth: Meaning isn’t found—it’s created. If you feel lost right now, it’s because the purpose you built your life around was something external—something that requires someone els…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 03:59 PM
5

Thank you!
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 03:55 PM
1

Yeah, I can tell from these comments that's what's happening. Unfortunate. Glad to see you've experienced it though!
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 03:55 PM
1

If this was purely biological, all men would react the same way—but they don’t. Some men spiral when they get rejected, others brush it off and move on. That difference proves it’s not just biology—it’s conditioning. Yes, rejection taps into an instinct, but instincts can be overridden, controlled, and redirected. If men were truly just cavemen running on autopilot, we’d still be clubbing women and dragging them to our caves. But we’re not (for the most part). You say the feeling comes from an i…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 03:53 PM
8

You’re literally proving my point while thinking you’re arguing against it. You admit that society conditions men to base their worth on female validation and that even male status is influenced by women’s approval. That’s exactly the problem—men are taught that who they are means nothing unless women want them. You’re acting like escaping this mindset is just luck. It’s not. It’s a conscious rejection of programming that keeps men weak. The fact that most guys are trapped in it doesn’t mean it’…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 03:50 PM
1

It's a big world.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 03:46 PM
1

Sounds good to me!
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 03:46 PM
1

No one’s saying confidence can’t grow from experience. But the problem is when a man’s confidence only exists when he’s winning. Confidence built only on success with women isn’t confidence—it’s dependence on validation. Learning social skills, charisma, and game isn’t bad—but if your sense of self crumbles when women aren’t responding the way you want, then it was never real confidence to begin with. That’s exactly why so many Red Pillers fall apart after one bad relationship or a dry spell. Th…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 03:45 PM
1

No one’s saying sex isn’t great. But if you’re justifying male desperation and validation-seeking with “but sex feels amazing,” then you’re proving my point. Sex is an experience, not a life purpose. It can be enjoyable, but the second a man puts up with endless rejection, disrespect, and emotional turmoil just for the chance to have it, he’s not chasing pleasure—he’s chasing validation. If you’re genuinely just enjoying life, good for you. But the moment you start putting sex on a pedestal and …
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 03:42 PM
5

You’re proving my point without realizing it. You say you have a good life—career, friends, health—but still feel like you need a relationship to feel whole. That’s exactly the issue I’m talking about. Some men can be happy alone, some men can’t—but why can’t they? Why do some men fall apart without a relationship while others thrive? It’s not because of some biological law—it’s because some men have been conditioned to believe their life is incomplete without one. And let’s address the “unmarri…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 03:40 PM
2

You’re acting like the only options are chasing women or becoming a depressed hermit. That’s a false choice. Plenty of men find meaning in their work, passions, friendships, and personal growth. The fact that you can’t imagine fulfillment without a woman doesn’t mean it’s impossible. The irony is that your mindset is exactly why so many men suffer—because they believe life is empty without female validation. That’s the problem. Sure, relationships and family can be fulfilling—but so can building…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 03:34 PM
1

Social conditioning exists—this isn’t even up for debate. Both men and women are affected by it, and that’s just basic psychology. If you’re actually looking for studies, here’s one: Romantic Competence and Self-Worth (Journal of Personality and Social Psychology) – Found that men’s self-esteem is more dependent on their dating success than women’s. In other words, men tie more of their self-worth to whether they’re romantically desired, while women don’t experience that same pressure. There’s a…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 03:31 PM
15

Sure, some men want relationships for the sake of the relationship itself, and there’s nothing wrong with that. But let’s be real—how many men feel miserable, unfulfilled, or even worthless when they’re single? Wanting a family is fine. The problem is when men can’t be happy without one. Too many guys chase relationships not because they genuinely want a partner, but because they feel like they’re failing at life if they don’t have one. If a man wants a relationship because he enjoys companionsh…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 03:09 PM
1

Women definitely seek validation, but the key difference is what happens when they don’t get it. A woman who isn’t desired might feel insecure, but a man who isn’t chosen often feels invisible, unwanted, and like less of a man. That’s a much deeper level of dependency. And you’re right, women also stay in bad relationships, but the reasons are different. Women might stay because of emotional attachment or financial dependence. Men often stay because they believe they have no other options. That’…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 03:08 PM
1

If Red Pill is purely about ‘becoming attractive,’ then let’s call it what it really is—a dating strategy, not a philosophy of self-improvement. But the problem is, it sells itself as more than that. It markets itself as ‘truth’ and ‘awakening’ while still keeping men’s sense of worth tied to external validation. You say that Red Pill is a means to an end, but what end? A successful dating life? That’s fine as a short-term goal, but what happens when you get the partner you wanted? If everything…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 03:03 PM
1

Then why even bring up rejection making men feel useless? If it’s just a minor disappointment and doesn’t impact your self-worth, it shouldn’t be a big deal. But for most guys, it is. That’s the whole point—it’s not just about wanting sex, it’s about what not getting it represents to them. If you’re truly indifferent to it, you’ve already beaten the trap. But for a lot of men, that frustration runs deeper than just being “disappointed.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 02:57 PM
6

Not eating kills you. Not having a woman doesn’t. Big difference. No one’s saying men should lock themselves inside and do nothing with their lives. The point is to stop seeing women as the thing that makes life worth living. If you genuinely enjoy pair bonding and family, great. But plenty of men find meaning in other things, and acting like nothing else compares is just projecting your own values onto everyone else. The problem isn’t men caring—the problem is men caring too much. The second yo…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 02:55 PM
8

The issue isn’t relationships or families—it’s thinking you need women to feel whole. There’s a difference between wanting a family and feeling like life is incomplete unless you have one. Plenty of men live fulfilling, productive lives without ever getting married or having kids.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 02:49 PM
0

Thank you.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 02:45 PM
3

If men weren’t conditioned to depend on female validation, why do so many feel like failures without it? Why do they tolerate disrespect, chase women who don’t want them, and structure their entire sense of self-worth around whether they’re chosen? That’s not just natural instinct—it’s a belief system that’s been drilled into them. Men are told from birth that their worth is earned—through success, status, and, most importantly, whether women desire them. Meanwhile, women are told their worth is…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 02:43 PM
7

No one’s saying men don’t want women. The issue is when that want turns into need, and when men feel like they’re failing just because they aren’t getting laid. Even normies can get women, sure. But plenty of those same guys settle for garbage relationships, tolerate disrespect, and let women walk all over them just because they’re afraid of being alone. That’s exactly what I’m talking about—they need it too much, so they take whatever they can get. Wanting women is natural. But the second that …
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 02:40 PM
7

Yeah, we’re wired to care—but that doesn’t mean we have to let it run our lives. You can train yourself to stop craving junk food, you can train yourself to handle pain, and you can train yourself to stop tying your worth to women. That’s the difference between a man who’s in control of his biology and a man who’s controlled by it. You’re also mixing up species survival with personal fulfilment. Humanity needs reproduction to continue—that doesn’t mean every individual man needs to structure his…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 02:39 PM
8

No one’s saying relationships can’t be good. But the issue is when men think they need them to feel whole. A healthy relationship should be an addition to an already good life, not the foundation of it. You say it’s “just my opinion” that men can be happy alone, but reality already proves otherwise. There are men out there who are content without relationships—so clearly, it’s possible. The fact that you can’t imagine being happy alone doesn’t mean no man can. It just means you’ve tied your happ…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 02:32 PM
2

Yeah, the drive is biological, but the emotional reaction isn’t just about reproduction—it’s about how men are conditioned to attach their worth to sexual access. That’s why rejection stings more than it logically should. If this was purely about nature, guys wouldn’t be out here depressed over body counts or thinking sex defines them as men. That’s social programming, not biology. And if rejection was just about failing to reproduce, men wouldn’t feel like failures in life when it happens—they’…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 02:30 PM
8

You’re right—relying on others for validation is a psychological weakness, and it makes people suffer when they don’t get it. The issue is that men are socially conditioned to depend on female validation in a way that women aren’t with men. You say you’ve never depended on men for validation, and that makes sense. Women don’t need to—their value in the dating market is reinforced constantly. But men? If they don’t get attention from women, they’re made to feel invisible. That’s why so many guys …
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 02:27 PM
9

No one’s saying validation isn’t real. The issue is where men get it from and how much power they give it. If your entire sense of worth comes from female approval, you’re setting yourself up to be controlled by something external. There’s a difference between needing validation in general and being dependent on women’s validation to feel like a man. That’s the problem, and that’s why so many guys struggle when they don’t get it.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 02:25 PM
3

Biology isn’t an excuse to be a slave to your impulses. Yeah, men have a biological drive to pursue women—but we also have the ability to control, direct, and prioritize that drive. Revealed preferences show that most people eat junk food too—does that mean we should all give in and let our diet be dictated by cravings? No, because not everything we’re wired to do is good for us. The point isn’t to “fight” biology—it’s to stop letting it control you. If you can’t function without female attentio…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 02:23 PM
1

Sure
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 02:20 PM
4

If it were just about sex, men wouldn’t be this emotionally frustrated over it. It’s not just the difficulty—it’s the feeling of rejection, exclusion, and lack of access that gets to guys. That’s why men get angry when they see “less deserving” guys getting women, or why they chase hookups even when it’s not fulfilling. It’s not just about attraction—it’s about what getting sex represents to them. That’s the whole point. Men tie too much of their worth to whether they can sleep with women, and t…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 02:20 PM
5

Well said and good to hear!
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 02:17 PM
13

You say it’s not about needing anything from them, but let’s be honest—if that were true, you wouldn’t feel like life is “worth it” because they exist. You don’t have to physically have them to still be centering your existence around them. That’s the same trap—just repackaged. There’s nothing wrong with desire, but when your worldview is "women exist, so life has meaning," you’re still tying your purpose to something external. You’re still relying on them to justify you. The point isn’t to supp…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 02:16 PM
10

No one’s saying rejection doesn’t suck, but let’s be real—how you feel about it is exactly the problem. If you were truly content alone, rejection wouldn’t hit this hard. But because you believe you need women to feel successful, every rejection feels like proof that you’re failing. That’s the whole point of the post—men think they need women more than women think they need men, and that belief is what keeps them stuck. You’re not struggling because you got rejected 70 times—you’re struggling be…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 02:14 PM
1

There’s nothing wrong with wanting a sexual partner. The issue is that Red Pill frames it as a competition where men must constantly ‘optimise’ themselves to succeed, rather than just living a fulfilling life where dating is a natural byproduct—not the main goal. You say you can separate self-worth from your goals, but that’s not how Red Pill teaches it. The ideology revolves around ‘status,’ ‘frame,’ and ‘value’—all of which are measured in terms of how women respond to men. If Red Pill were tr…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 02:11 PM
7

I don’t think this applies equally to both men and women. The difference isn’t just in who’s chasing—it’s in who thinks they need the other more. Men build their entire sense of worth around whether they’re “chosen” by women. They think they need relationships to be complete. Women don’t operate the same way. Sure, they enjoy relationships, but they don’t feel like life is incomplete without a man—at least, not to the same extent men feel without a woman. The modern dating landscape proves this.…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 02:06 PM
1

Yes, that is the big issue here.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 01:59 PM
13

If you genuinely believe women are the best thing in existence, that’s your choice. But making them your number one motivating factor? That’s exactly why so many men struggle. The moment your happiness, drive, or self-worth depends on women, you’re setting yourself up to be controlled by something you don’t even have. You don’t need validation to feel that way, but let’s be real—your entire purpose is still tied to getting something from them. That’s not strength, that’s a blind spot.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 01:58 PM
3

Sounds good. The point isn’t to treat women like a problem (though they often can be)—it’s to stop seeing them as a necessity. Too many guys act like their lives are on hold until they get one. The moment you realise that’s not true, the game stops feeling like a struggle.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 01:56 PM
21

That sounds rough, man, and I’m not going to pretend to know exactly how that feels. But I respect the fact that you’ve pushed through it and kept going. A lot of guys fear the idea of being alone, but you’ve already faced it head-on. Society makes us think that if we’re not getting female attention, we’re somehow failing. But you’ve lived without it and kept moving forward. That means you’ve already done the hardest part—surviving what most men are terrified of. But here’s the thing: being sing…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 01:53 PM
1

If Red Pill men were truly ‘defining their worth on their own terms,’ they wouldn’t be obsessing over women’s hypergamy, optimizing themselves for the dating market, or constantly talking about how to ‘win’ in relationships. The entire framework is built around men being desirable to women—it’s not self-improvement for the sake of personal fulfillment, it’s self-improvement with a transactional goal. And sure, humans are social creatures—but there’s a difference between wanting relationships and…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 01:47 PM
1

Being strong means being internally secure—defining your worth on your own terms instead of measuring it by external validation. A strong man doesn’t feel the need to prove himself to women, to ‘win’ in dating, or to constantly optimize himself for female approval. He improves because he wants to—not because he’s trying to outcompete other men in a rigged system. Red Pill sells men the idea that strength means ‘winning’ in the dating market. But real strength is when you no longer need the datin…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 01:22 PM
1

Fair enough
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 01:21 PM
1

You don’t need Red Pill to have self-respect. Avoiding people who use you and setting boundaries is just common sense, not some special insight from TRP. The problem with Red Pill is that it doesn’t just teach self-respect—it frames women as adversaries and convinces men that dating is a constant power struggle. Instead of simply saying ‘don’t let yourself be used,’ it pushes men to see all women as hypergamous opportunists, making them just as emotionally reactive as the guys they claim to be a…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 01:19 PM
0

he alternative is real self-improvement—one that isn’t dependent on women’s validation. Getting fit, healthy, and financially stable are all great things. The problem with Red Pill isn’t the self-improvement aspects—it’s that they are still entirely centered around gaining success with women. That means men are still playing by the same rules, just from a stronger position. They aren’t truly free from the system—they’ve just optimized themselves to function better within it. How does that make m…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 01:17 PM
1

Very true.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 01:15 PM
2

Well said.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 01:14 PM
0

I think you’re spot on about hierarchy and shifting economic dynamics. The modern world has changed what men bring to relationships—women don’t rely on men for survival the way they once did, so attraction is based far more on status, personality, and other intangibles rather than just provision. But this is exactly why Red Pill thinking is flawed—it doesn’t address these structural changes at all. Instead, it just tells men to ‘level up’ in a system where the old rules don’t even apply anymore.…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 01:14 PM
0

The problem isn’t that evopsych is ‘uncomfortable’—the problem is that it’s often speculative, unfalsifiable, and cherry-picked to justify pre-existing beliefs about gender dynamics. Red Pillers don’t use evopsych as a scientific tool—they use it as a rigid framework to ‘explain’ why men and women must behave in specific ways. But real science doesn’t work that way. Human behavior is shaped by far more than just instinct—culture, socialization, personal experience, and conscious choice all play …
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 01:12 PM
1

Agreed
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 01:10 PM
1

If you’re saying the kind of guys who are drawn to Red Pill were already struggling beforehand, I’d agree. But that’s exactly why it’s a problem—Red Pill doesn’t actually help them, it just reinforces their worst instincts and keeps them dependent on external validation. Are you saying Red Pill isn’t the issue, just the men who follow it? If so, wouldn’t that mean Red Pill isn’t really ‘fixing’ anything at all? "Disagree"
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 01:10 PM
1

You’re missing the point. I never said Red Pill and Black Pill are identical—I said both are rooted in biological determinism. Red Pill just packages it as 'self-improvement' rather than outright fatalism. Red Pill still tells men that their worth is fundamentally dictated by external factors—looks, money, status, game. The entire philosophy is still based on competing within a fixed system where female hypergamy is an unquestioned reality. The difference is that Red Pill tells men they can win …
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 01:09 PM
1

Yes, historical reproductive patterns show that fewer men reproduced compared to women—but that was in a world where survival was brutal, polygamy was common, and social structures were vastly different from today. If you think modern relationships are governed by the same selection pressures as pre-industrial societies, you are the one coping. Biology may influence behaviour, but it doesn’t dictate it. If we were all still living purely by evolutionary pressures, we wouldn’t have monogamous rel…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 01:06 PM
0

I don’t doubt that some men feel Red Pill helped them—but improving your life while still being dependent on external validation isn’t real strength. If TRP was truly about strength, it wouldn’t keep men locked into a system where their self-worth is measured by their desirability to women.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 01:03 PM
1

Taking initiative and self-actualization are great—but Red Pill isn’t about self-actualization, it’s about winning validation from women and calling it growth. Real self-improvement is about developing confidence and fulfillment independent of external validation. You’re right that confidence often builds through experience, but if that confidence is only tied to success with women, then it’s fragile by nature. That’s exactly why so many Red Pillers fall apart after a breakup or after struggling…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 01:02 PM
1

Rejecting a system doesn’t mean you’re actually free from it. Red Pillers claim to reject modern dating and gender roles, yet they’re still obsessed with ‘winning’ in that same system. They still chase women, still measure success by status, and still believe their worth is tied to competition. That’s not real rejection—it’s just frustration. MGTOW, on the other hand, actually detaches from the system by removing women and relationships from the equation entirely (at least they did for a time). …
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 01:00 PM
0

Interesting.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 12:57 PM
1

Sure
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 12:56 PM
0

Exactly my issue
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 12:55 PM
2

Agreed!
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/25 12:54 PM
3

There’s a massive difference between choosing to be alone on your own terms and feeling alone because you can’t succeed in the system. One is independence, the other is frustration. A Red Pill guy who resents women but still chases them isn’t free—he’s just trapped in another form of dependency. And sure, the manosphere is a minority, but that doesn’t mean its influence is insignificant. Most men might not openly call themselves Red Pill, but the talking points—hypergamy, women don’t love uncond…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/25 06:22 PM
5

Agreed
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/25 06:21 PM
4

The issue isn’t recognizing patterns—it’s assuming those patterns are rigid and unchangeable. Yeah, we’re animals, and sexuality has instinctual roots, but humans aren’t just instinct-driven machines. We create systems, rewrite rules, and redefine social values all the time. If that weren’t the case, we’d still be living in caves, and women would still be trading berries for protection. Red Pillers don’t just ‘understand patterns’—they accept them as fixed laws. They believe men are biologically…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/25 06:19 PM
18

Exactly. The moment you buy into any ‘pill’ ideology, you’re surrendering your ability to think independently. Red Pill, Black Pill, even Blue Pill—they all rely on pre-packaged worldviews instead of actually adapting to reality on your own terms. That’s why I argue Red Pill doesn’t make men stronger. It just gives them a different script to follow instead of helping them break free from needing a script in the first place
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/25 06:14 PM
6

I get what you’re saying—early Red Pill had elements of self-improvement, but even in its original form, it was still built on biological determinism. It was never just about men improving for the sake of personal growth; it was about improving within a framework where women’s preferences still dictated a man’s worth. Even Kevin Samuels, for all his straight-shooting advice, still operated on the idea that a man’s value was directly tied to his ability to compete in the dating market. That’s my …
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/25 06:13 PM
6

Simple as that
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/25 03:31 PM
2

Ah, the classic deflection—when the argument isn’t going your way, resort to personal attacks. It’s telling that instead of addressing my actual points, you’re more focused on making assumptions about my personal life. That alone shows how weak your position is. And let’s be clear: I initiated this conversation about the provider model—you’re the one who shifted it into a discussion about how men supposedly "need" women. Now that I’ve challenged that belief, you’re resorting to insults instead o…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/25 07:06 AM
1

You keep repeating that you "don’t know of any cultures" where men are respected without a partner, but that just shows the limits of your perspective, not the limits of reality. History is filled with respected men who weren’t defined by their romantic success—philosophers, monks, warriors, and leaders who dedicated themselves to something greater. Even today, there are men who command respect through their achievements, status, and contributions, not just their ability to secure a partner. But…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/25 07:04 AM
1

If women truly don’t need men, then let them opt out without shaming them for it. But the fact that this conversation is even happening suggests that the shifting dating landscape is making some uncomfortable. Men are waking up to the fact that the provider model no longer benefits them. If relationships are as one-sided as you claim, why should men stay invested? You say women don’t need men—great. Then let men walk away without trying to convince them otherwise.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 11:12 PM
2

Because attention and validation don’t necessarily equate to desirability in a real relationship sense. Just because a woman receives constant admiration from average men doesn’t mean she’s objectively above average—it just means those men are willing to give her attention regardless. The delusion comes from mistaking the abundance of options for the quality of options. If a woman gets non-stop DMs, likes, and compliments from men she wouldn’t actually date, but takes that as proof that she’s "a…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 11:04 PM
2

The concept is perfect but the online execution leaves a lot to be desired. I essentially advocate for it in my recent post here but of course there's still pushback.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 10:58 PM
1

You’re conflating two different things—being single and being sexless. Just because men across cultures desire relationships or sex doesn’t mean they all obsess over it to the same degree or tie their entire self-worth to it. There are plenty of men who lead fulfilling lives without being in a relationship, even if they still seek connection in other ways. Different societies place different values on masculinity. In some cultures, a man’s worth is tied to his role as a leader, his contributions…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 10:48 PM
0

You just reinforced my entire argument. If relationships are a net negative for women, as you claim, and men are expected to sacrifice just to "access the feminine," why should men keep participating in this dynamic? You’re essentially confirming that modern relationships are an unfair deal for both sides—so why keep pretending the provider model is worth maintaining? You also contradict yourself. First, you say men aren’t entitled to women (which I agree with), but then you frame relationships …
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 10:34 PM
1

Your entire argument is built on the idea that men should just accept that dating has always been unfair, that it will always be unfair, and that the solution is to just keep competing no matter how much it drains them. That’s the exact mindset I’m pushing back against. You’re right that human mating was never "fair." But you’re wrong to assume that means men should just blindly accept their place in a system that actively works against them. In the past, men were at least given a clear role and…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 10:27 PM
1

To be honest you’re clearly overcomplicating this on purpose, likely because you recognise that my core argument challenges the status quo. You’re treating this like I’m drafting a government policy proposal when, in reality, it’s a social shift—a change in mindset that doesn’t require bureaucracy, funding proposals, or formalised institutions. Plenty of major societal shifts have happened without all the things you’re demanding I outline right now. Let’s break this down. You’re misrepresenting …
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 10:16 PM
0

You just made my point for me. If relationships are such a net negative for women, as you claim, and men are expected to make endless sacrifices just to "access the feminine," why should men be so desperate to participate in this dynamic? If relationships are inherently burdensome for both parties, maybe the solution isn't to keep playing along but to rethink the entire setup. Also, you’re contradicting yourself. First, you say men aren’t entitled to women, which I agree with, but then you frame…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 05:45 PM
1

Winning? By what metric? If men were overwhelmingly "winning," we wouldn’t see rising male loneliness, declining relationship satisfaction among men, and increasing frustration with modern dating. You’re assuming that because some men do well, the system must be fine for all men, which is just not true. And yes, fulfilment outside of relationships is absolutely possible—there are countless men who find deep meaning in friendships, careers, passions, and personal growth. The issue is that men hav…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 05:30 PM
1

I get what you’re saying, but this is exactly why it’s frustrating when people claim feminism benefits men. If the expectation is that men have to organise separately for their own rights, then feminism isn't doing that work for us—it’s focused on women's issues, which is fine, but let’s stop pretending it’s some all-encompassing movement for gender equality. And look, I’ll acknowledge that some men do bring up male issues in ways that are dismissive or derail conversations about women’s struggl…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 03:35 PM
1

Sounds good. Evolution is cool.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 03:25 PM
1

Sounds good to me! You're doing more than me so I can't complain. Thank you!
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 03:24 PM
1

Framing relationships as some kind of biological sacrifice that men are doomed to make is a self-defeating mindset. We’re not insects. We have the ability to critically think, challenge outdated narratives, and decide what actually brings us fulfillment instead of blindly accepting a system that doesn't serve us. If you’re fine with playing into that dynamic, that’s your choice. But acting like men must either submit to it or accept isolation is just reinforcing a false binary. The point of this…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 03:02 PM
1

No one is denying that men seek out sexual partners across cultures—that’s a biological drive. But what isn’t universal is the degree to which men tie their self-worth to their sexual success. That varies wildly depending on societal values, expectations, and the narratives men are raised with. For example, in some cultures, a man's value is measured more by his community status, wisdom, or contributions rather than just his ability to attract partners. In others—like modern Western societies—se…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 03:00 PM
1

That humans are not built to live alone? If you want to think that then by all means.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 02:58 PM
1

Apologies if I come off as combative, but I often see feminists talk about male issues in a way that mischaracterises their own movement, making it seem like it equally advocates for men when, in reality, it’s always been focused on women’s rights. And that’s fine—there’s nothing wrong with a movement prioritising women. What bothers me is when feminism is framed as something men should rally behind because it supposedly benefits us just as much, when that’s clearly not the case. You say men nee…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 02:56 PM
1

Tue but the show must go on.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 02:48 PM
1

There’s a difference between supporting men from the sidelines and actively inserting yourselves into a conversation that men need to have among themselves. This is about men reclaiming their self-worth on their own terms, without external influence—even from those who claim to agree and are engaging in good faith. The issue isn’t whether what you’re saying is right or wrong, it’s that men need to come to these realisations themselves, without being guided or nudged in any direction by women. En…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 02:46 PM
1

That’s just evolutionary determinism taken to an extreme. Yes, reproduction is a biological drive, but reducing men’s entire existence to “get women or fail” is a gross oversimplification. Humans evolved past acting solely on primal instincts—that’s why we build civilizations, create art, and define meaning beyond reproduction. And your argument about men never settling contradicts itself. If men are so driven by this need to “dominate and reproduce,” then why are so many not succeeding? Because…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 02:39 PM
1

It helps the men who drop out because they’re no longer stuck in a system that drains them emotionally, mentally, and financially while offering little in return. The goal isn’t to “help” men who opt out by somehow rewarding them in the dating market—that’s missing the point entirely. It’s about giving them an actual alternative to chasing validation through relationships and allowing them to build fulfilling lives outside of dating. Meanwhile, for the men who do remain, the shift forces a neces…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 02:31 PM
1

You’re treating evolutionary instincts as if they’re absolute laws rather than tendencies that can be influenced by society and personal choice. Yes, men have a biological drive to seek mates, but that doesn’t mean desperation is an inherent or unchangeable trait—it’s reinforced by societal conditioning that tells men they are incomplete without a woman. If men were truly inherently wired to be desperate for women no matter what, we wouldn’t see cultures like Japan where men are increasingly opt…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 02:26 PM
1

It's definitely, because you're a woman. Respectfully it's not your place.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 02:12 PM
1

If it were purely innate, it wouldn’t vary so drastically across cultures and time periods. Envy itself is a natural emotion, but what triggers it and how intensely it manifests are largely shaped by societal values. If men weren’t constantly bombarded with messages that their worth is tied to sexual success, this kind of envy wouldn’t be as pronounced. The issue isn’t the feeling itself—it’s the system that amplifies it and keeps men chasing an illusion of validation.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 02:05 PM
1

Sounds nice in theory, but in reality, plenty of people live fulfilling, independent lives without being in relationships. Life isn’t a one-size-fits-all experience—some people thrive in partnerships, others don’t. The real issue is that society pushes the idea that being single is inherently a failure rather than just another way to live.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 02:01 PM
1

Well said. I guess we can stop pretending that feminism benefits men too, then. If it were truly a mutually beneficial movement, we wouldn’t need to take the steps you just outlined.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 02:00 PM
1

And that’s exactly my point—you get to decide what’s important to you. You’ve chosen relationships as your highest priority, and that’s completely valid. But not every man should feel obligated to make that their defining goal in life. The issue isn’t about telling men what they should value, but about giving them the freedom to question whether chasing relationships is actually what they want, or if it’s just what they’ve been conditioned to believe they should want. If a man finds fulfilment i…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 01:57 PM
1

The costs of being single are only high because society has conditioned men to believe they are. Most of those ‘costs’—loneliness, lack of validation, social stigma—are artificially inflated by cultural narratives that tell men they need a relationship to be whole. The reality is, plenty of men are single and thriving, but you rarely hear their stories because they don’t fit the mainstream script. If we stopped treating singlehood as a problem to be solved and started treating it as a valid life…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 01:55 PM
1

Too bad
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 01:53 PM
1

Nowhere did I say women are an obstacle. The issue is men tying their entire sense of self-worth to whether or not they have a relationship. You can have both, but too many men chase relationships at the expense of their own fulfillment, burning themselves out in the process. This isn’t about being 'scared of rejection'—it’s about rejecting the idea that a man’s value is defined by whether or not a woman chooses him. That’s a major difference.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 01:52 PM
2

And it's equally as fun watching you guys chase over the same dude!
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 01:50 PM
1

Not sure about that last point.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 01:50 PM
1

If refusing to tie your entire sense of worth to dating and women is "hoisting the white flag," then maybe the real issue is how men are conditioned to view relationships as the ultimate prize. Choosing to focus on self-fulfilment, personal growth, and friendships isn’t surrender—it’s reclaiming control. If the only way to ‘win’ in your eyes is to keep chasing something that leaves many men frustrated and burnt out, then maybe it’s time to question the game itself.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 01:31 PM
1

I guess.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 01:29 PM
1

That’s exactly the problem—if a man has been conditioned to believe that ever being single is a failure, then of course he’ll see it that way. But that belief isn’t inherent; it’s shaped by societal expectations, peer pressure, and cultural narratives. The point isn’t about ‘resetting’ a man’s personal goals but giving him the space to question whether those goals are truly his own or just a reflection of external conditioning. If he genuinely wants a relationship, great. But if he only feels li…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 01:28 PM
1

A ‘tiny bit’ of success only makes a difference if you’re conditioned to believe that any success in dating—no matter how minimal—is the key to self-worth. That’s exactly the problem I’m highlighting. If a man is miserable and unfulfilled but gets laid once a year, does that suddenly fix everything? Of course not. Men need to stop defining their happiness by whether they scrape together the bare minimum in dating success. A mindset shift away from that desperation would do far more for men’s men…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 01:20 PM
1

Yep, I’ve heard of Passport Bros, and for the most part, I support it.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 01:17 PM
1

Sure, and plenty of those same men end up in miserable, transactional relationships because of it. If a relationship is built primarily on financial convenience rather than genuine connection, it’s a shaky foundation at best. The point isn’t whether some men are okay with it—it’s that men shouldn’t feel like they have to be in relationships just to survive financially. That’s not a healthy dynamic for anyone involved.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 01:15 PM
1

I never said it was a "master plan by feminists." The point is that men are conditioned to tie their self-worth to whether or not they can attract women, and that conditioning leads to desperation. It’s not just a lack of attention from women—it’s the belief that being single is a failure, which is reinforced by societal expectations. Women may not deliberately lower their standards to keep men on the hook, but they don’t have to. Men, out of fear of being alone, willingly settle for less than w…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 01:10 PM
1

a) How to get men to utilize these programs? The biggest barrier to men engaging with mental health resources is the stigma around them. That’s why this wouldn’t be framed as a ‘therapy’ program but as a self-improvement and personal development movement. Men are already drawn to things like fitness communities, career mentorship, and skill-based groups (trades, martial arts, coding, entrepreneurship, etc.). Integrating these concepts into spaces they already participate in would make engagement…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 01:07 PM
1

A healthier dating market benefits everyone—including men who already date successfully. When desperation and scarcity are removed from the equation, relationships become more organic and less transactional. Men who already have a good relationship with dating aren’t affected negatively by this—if anything, they benefit from a market where relationships are built on genuine compatibility rather than social pressure or lopsided dynamics. As for 'societal narratives,' they’re everywhere. From chil…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 01:01 PM
1

Good to see.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 12:54 PM
1

Well, that's good at least.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 12:53 PM
1

Interesting
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 12:51 PM
1

No, but I believe the fear of that possible outcome must be resolved. Women thanks to feminism are slowly freeing themselves of it so now we men need to do the same.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 12:46 PM
1

I don’t know. I feel like you need to be passionate about something to be your best self and work hard at it. Most men have found that to be wife and kids My dream is for this to no longer be the case. We've regressed so much, and it’s only going to get worse
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 12:43 PM
1

Well said. I wish I could offer an equally well-written response. All I can say regarding your last point is that I believe a woman's pride often outweighs her desire to avoid being single, so I'm sceptical about whether that approach would be effective. Modern women are quite stubborn.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 11:47 AM
1

I've thought this as well.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/25 11:41 AM
3

They don't get to have it both ways so they can keep wondering.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 01:06 PM
5

Now if only men carried the same mindset and weren't deadly afraid of being single. We'd be much more at peace.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 01:04 PM
1

Why not? It would be fun to see the whole dating market burn.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 01:02 PM
1

Less available men means fewer options for women taking away their inherent dating advantages and forcing them to be less picky. Equal playing field.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 12:59 PM
11

Facts
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 12:57 PM
1

You get it.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 12:54 PM
2

Exactly.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 12:54 PM
2

I get that some guys could benefit from being more social, but dismissing the male loneliness crisis as just men being lazy ignores the bigger picture. Not everyone has the same confidence or opportunities, and modern dating dynamics make things harder for a lot of men. The point isn’t to complain—it’s to rethink how we approach fulfillment and self-worth.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 12:46 PM
1

Practically, it starts with creating spaces—online or offline—where men can have these conversations without judgment. Discussions like this can plant the seeds for reflection. Beyond that, it’s about sharing stories of men who’ve successfully redefined their fulfilment outside of dating, supporting content that promotes personal growth, and encouraging mentorship or community activities. Workshops, meetups, or online communities focused on skills, hobbies, and personal development can also give…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 12:44 PM
1

That’s true, and I respect that but the difference is that women have movements like feminism advocating for their autonomy and choices, while men lack a similar support system.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 12:21 PM
1

That envy exists because men are conditioned to tie their self-worth to sexual and romantic success. The solution isn’t feeding into it—it’s breaking that conditioning and focusing on fulfillment outside of dating
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 12:17 PM
1

Well, that’s why I think it’s crucial to replace that external validation with something healthier, like personal growth, meaningful friendships, or contributing to a community. I don't believe rejecting societal expectations has to be about turning away from everything—it can be about redefining purpose and fulfilment on your own terms. Self-actualization isn’t easy, but walking that tightrope, as you put it, can lead to a much more fulfilling and balanced life if done with intention
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 12:15 PM
1

I do think some of them read posts like mine and see it as a threat to their dating advantages. Fewer desperate and overly available men in the dating market would level the playing field, taking away the "upper hand" they currently enjoy. That’s not something many would want to give up
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 12:10 PM
2

I don’t think advocating for men to step back and restructure our views of ourselves, women, and dating is taking away anyone’s rights. Having fewer desperate and overly available men in the dating market is ultimately a net positive. Both sides having equal options is a good thing. Why anyone would be against a level playing field between men and women in the dating game is beyond me...
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 12:06 PM
2

Nice. I'll check it out. Thanks.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 12:03 PM
1

You're right. Ultimately, this kind of change has to come from within, but that doesn’t mean we can’t spark conversations and plant the seeds for men to start reevaluating how they define their self-worth and fulfilment. The shift won’t happen overnight, but with men like me encouraging others to think differently, I believe it’s possible to spark meaningful change even if it's generations from now.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 12:01 PM
1

But why would this matter if the goal is to find fulfillment outside of dating? So what if the dating market shifts? Overcoming the fear of being single gives a man significant advantages, but achieving that requires finding fulfilment outside of women, dating, and relationships. Once a man reaches that point, he’s no longer desperate or overly available, which naturally leads to a healthier and more balanced approach to dating—if he even chooses to continue it. The byproduct of this shift is a …
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 11:54 AM
1

While I get your point about biology driving our desire for love and connection, that doesn’t mean we can’t reframe how we approach those desires. The men you mentioned who are happy while single—whether they have options or just fulfilling lives—are proof that self-worth and happiness don’t have to hinge on dating success. I completely agree though that the societal expectation for men to settle down to be considered successful needs to die. Men should have the freedom to define their own lives…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 11:43 AM
1

I get your frustration, but society has always evolved, and so must we. Men don’t have to abandon their biological drives, but tying their entire worth to finding a partner isn’t sustainable anymore. Instead of lamenting the past, we need to adapt and find new ways to thrive in the world as it is today.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 11:38 AM
1

Right.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 11:08 AM
1

I think you’re misunderstanding what I mean by societal conditioning. It’s not about explicit lessons in school or introductions like 'Hi, I’ve had X relationships.' It’s more subtle and pervasive, embedded in the media we consume, the stories we celebrate, and the expectations placed on men from an early age. While men are certainly lauded for personal success, there’s still an underlying narrative that ties a man’s worth to how well he fulfils traditional roles—like being a provider or achievi…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 11:05 AM
1

At the very least, fewer men in the dating market would slow it down or, as you mentioned, make dating less common. Like I said, men are the ones keeping the machine of the current dating system running—it starts and ends with our involvement.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 10:57 AM
1

The point is to encourage individual men to reassess their priorities, detach their self-worth from dating, and focus on building fulfilling lives outside of romantic relationships. There needs to be a mindset shift that, over time, could lead to healthier dating dynamics for everyone involved.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 10:47 AM
1

I think the key is to broaden how we define intimacy and companionship. Men need to invest more in friendships, with other men, as well as in communities or groups that foster genuine connection—whether that’s through shared hobbies, volunteering, or creative pursuits. We also need to create a culture where men feel safe being vulnerable and emotionally open outside of romantic relationships. If society stops equating intimacy solely with romance, men can start to meet those needs in healthier a…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 10:20 AM
1

Well said, man. I truly believe guys like you are a step ahead.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 10:15 AM
1

Very interesting. I'll look into that for sure.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 10:14 AM
1

No, but given the lack of conversation around solutions to this disparity, I’d say it’s news to a lot of people. It’s a difficult topic because the solutions are far from straightforward and often feel like pipe dreams.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 10:02 AM
1

I hope my insignificant Reddit post doesn't fall under the umbrella of making "a big deal about it".
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 09:48 AM
1

Right. We need to wake up.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 09:41 AM
1

Oh. That makes my comments seem a bit dumb now...
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 09:40 AM
1

Yeah, that sucks. Please don't fall to peer pressure though. Virginity can be powerful, especially for men where we're expected to be mindless sex machines with no standards. Take some pride in it.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 09:39 AM
1

Haaa
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 09:32 AM
1

The point is that men shouldn’t view single life as a failure or something to fear. Fulfilment isn’t about whether you’re single or in a relationship—it’s about finding meaning in your life beyond female validation. For some people, single life can be a deeply fulfilling time for personal growth, pursuing passions, and building strong friendships. For others, it might be a stepping stone to a healthier relationship in the future. It all comes down to perspective and what you choose to focus on.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 09:28 AM
1

Well said!
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 09:11 AM
1

Thank you!
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 08:59 AM
1

I’d actually say that reinforces my point: unless we address the underlying societal and economic pressures, more people will opt out of traditional paths. The goal is to make that choice empowering, not a symptom of a broken system like it is in Japan. If we can do that the change resulting from that will be more healthy and less destructive.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 08:58 AM
1

Interesting.. Thanks for your comment.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 08:54 AM
2

Good to hear it!
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 08:45 AM
2

I want a debate in good faith. Using that term will attract a bunch of angry women preventing that.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 08:45 AM
1

I guess? Just preferably without the misogyny and over-focus on women. I avoid using that term because of its controversy and it would just discredit everything I'm trying to say, unfortunately.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/25 08:43 AM
2

Yep and said 'challenge' is the current dating market. Agreed. We should challenge it by not feeding it.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 08:26 PM
3

If men aren't slaves to our desires then the world doesn't know what to do with us hence communities like MGTOW being shut down.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 08:25 PM
3

Yeah MGTOW turned into something way to toxic but the concept is pretty good.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 08:23 PM
3

Tying yourself to someone purely for financial convenience isn’t exactly a healthy solution either. The fact that everything is priced for dual-income households just highlights how broken the system is, not why men should cling to outdated ideas about relationships or self-worth. Instead of seeing single life as financially impossible, maybe we should focus on challenging the system that’s made it this way. Men shouldn’t feel forced into relationships just to make rent or survive economically. …
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 08:21 PM
1

It's a scam. Well said.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 08:17 PM
4

See how the pendulum has swung to the other side? We really need to wake up.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 06:26 PM
1

Nice one!
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 06:24 PM
2

Good to hear it!
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 06:24 PM
2

I’m not saying this shift is easy or even universally applicable. For men who’ve been single their whole lives and deeply desire a relationship, embracing single life might feel counterintuitive or even impossible. But the point isn’t to force men into permanent singledom—it’s to encourage them to redefine their self-worth and fulfillment so that it’s not entirely dependent on romantic success and that single life is longer something they inherently fear. MGTOW and similar movements might touch …
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 06:23 PM
6

I think you’re underestimating the extent to which societal narratives go beyond just advertising campaigns. While it’s true that marketing often plays a role, the connection between a man’s self-worth and his ability to attract a mate is deeply embedded in our culture and reinforced in countless ways—from media and entertainment to family expectations and peer dynamics. It’s not just incidental; it’s woven into the fabric of how society views men and their roles. I DO agree that individuals hav…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 06:19 PM
8

Ok so I’ll try to address things more concretely. I admit my comment boils down to the cheesy idea that 'real meaning is found within,' but I don’t think that’s a meaningless concept or a word salad. It’s about encouraging men to redefine their values and goals in ways that aren’t tied to societal expectations or external validation. That may sound abstract, but it has practical applications. Take hobbies, for example—not as distractions, but as opportunities to cultivate passion, skill, and mas…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 06:07 PM
2

I am not denying those natural desires humans experience or suggesting that everyone should want to be single. I'm just trying reframe single life as a valid and fulfilling option for those who feel trapped by modern dating dynamics. If someone genuinely wants a relationship, that’s great, but the key is to approach it from a place of self-worth and independence, not desperation or frustration. The imbalance we both recognise is frustrating, but it’s largely fuelled by societal pressures and the…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 05:58 PM
2

I'm very concerned about the prospect of these women having sons to be honest. These women will most likely be with spineless yes men so their sons will end up being the same if not worse.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 05:46 PM
5

Come on man thats impossible. If they admit any of that it will weaken there victim complex which they often weaponise and use as a shield to defend against any criticism or wrong doing.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 05:35 PM
6

Of course especially in the context of dating in the west.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 05:18 PM
2

That's a good way of thinking I guess
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 05:12 PM
1

Agreed!
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 05:11 PM
3

Yeah there's definitely an innate toxicity to some male friendships but I for one don't believe being a virgin needs to be public knowledge nor is it anyones business so I'd question how and why your friends know. It's not required knowledge for a friendship. You seem a bit more open about it than others though judging by the fact it's in your user flair. Why is it something you feel a need to publicise?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 05:08 PM
4

Not familiar with the guy.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 05:04 PM
1

Interesting take. I can tell you're done with it all and you're not alone in your frustration man.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 04:56 PM
1

The fact that men "freely give" these advantages often comes down to the pressure society places on them to chase validation and tie their worth to romantic success. Men are taught from an early age that their role is to pursue, provide, and prove their value through relationships, which reinforces these patterns. It’s not about women but about the system as a whole shaping these behaviours and expectations. I want to challenge us men to step back, reevaluate, and stop feeding into those dynamic…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 04:56 PM
2

I agree with a lot of what you’re saying—men and women often have different emotional needs, and the gap between those needs can feel insurmountable in today’s culture. I also think you’re absolutely right that society misleads men into thinking they need six figures, abs, or some other impossible standard just to be deserving of love or intimacy. That’s part of the problem I’m addressing in my post: society conditions men to tie their self-worth to their ability to meet these arbitrary benchmar…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 04:51 PM
10

Yeah this is toxic as hell and it’s exactly this kind of attitude that creates the desperation and frustration in men that leads to unhealthy behaviour in the first place. Stigmatising single men doesn’t encourage improvement—it reinforces shame and isolation, which only makes things worse. Men don’t need more stigma and shame; they need opportunities to find fulfillment and redefine their self-worth outside of relationships. That’s what my post is about: creating a healthier mindset and a more …
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 04:43 PM
6

My post isn’t saying that all men should permanently avoid relationships. Permanent singledom isn’t the ultimate goal for everyone—it’s about reframing it as a valid and fulfilling option for those who choose it. The real issue is the pressure society places on men to derive their value and identity solely from being in a relationship. That’s what I’m challenging. But you are correct that what I’m advocating for is men finding themselves, their purpose, and their fulfilment independently of rela…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 04:05 PM
5

I really don't agree that this issue is purely internal—it’s heavily reinforced by societal narratives. Men are constantly bombarded with messages that tie their value to their ability to attract a woman, provide, or succeed in traditional roles. This isn’t something that exists in a vacuum; it’s a product of cultural conditioning. Sure, some men may lack emotional maturity, but it’s hard to mature emotionally when society is pushing the idea that you’re 'less than' if you’re single or not fulfi…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 04:01 PM
2

Same post or word it differently? Considered it but didn't want to make it seem like i was karma farming.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 03:57 PM
1

Sounded great. Past tense though? I assume the right person came along to mess that all up (half joking)
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 03:55 PM
9

I don’t think the goal should be to replace one external motivator with another—it’s should be to help men stop relying on external validation altogether. The problem isn’t that men lack a new 'carrot'; it’s that we’ve been conditioned to chase something outside ourselves, whether it’s romantic success, societal approval, or even religious salvation. What I’m suggesting is that men shift their focus inward and find fulfilment in personal growth, hobbies, community, and meaningful connections—not…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 03:55 PM
4

My point isn’t that people should stop wanting relationships or spouses but that men need to detach their sense of worth and fulfilment from the necessity of being in one. The issue arises when society conditions men to believe that their value hinges on being partnered or successful in dating. This pressure creates a sense of desperation, frustration, and burnout for men who struggle in the current dating culture. By reframing single life as a valid, fulfilling option, we’re not denying the des…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 03:46 PM
2

Reality is shaped by societal narratives, and it can be whatever we choose to make it. If society truly wanted to reframe male single life as a positive and empowering choice, it could—and it would work. It’s already happening with women, and it seems to be successful. Many women now embrace single life as a fulfilling option, so there’s no reason why men can’t achieve the same. The difference lies in how society conditions us to view singlehood, and that perspective can absolutely be changed.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 03:40 PM
3

I’m not saying self-improvement and dating are mutually exclusive. My point is that men need to redefine their sense of self-worth and fulfilment independently of dating, relationships and women altogether. Too often, men pursue personal growth only as a means to become more appealing to women, and when that doesn’t yield the results they want, it creates even more frustration and resentment. This mindset—tying self-improvement solely to dating success—is part of the problem. True self-improveme…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 03:35 PM
2

With billion of us in existence I'm sure women like yourself are bound to come across some men that don't fit the general male behaviours I'm describing. Exceptions to every rule. Good on those men though and good luck to you! Maybe the universe is trying to teach you something...
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 03:30 PM
3

Well, yeah, that’s the entire purpose of this post: to destigmatise men being single and, more importantly, embracing it. Men often resist this idea because we’ve been conditioned not to. If we collectively rejected current norms, it could lead to significant societal shifts—something the powers that be likely don't want. Dating as we know it could undergo irreversible changes, and global birth rates might decline even further as a result. As a younger man (21), I think we might eventually see a…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 03:12 PM
1

Agreed.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 03:05 PM
5

It's definitely a combination of both biological and social conditioning but I think society plays a significant role in amplifying those natural tendencies and tying them to a man’s sense of worth and identity. It’s one thing to desire connection—it’s another to feel like you’re a failure without it And you're right that both men and women are still learning to embrace singledom, but societal conditioning makes it harder for men because we’re constantly told that being single means you’re ‘less…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 02:57 PM
5

I'm not sure how this means current dating culture is absolutely fine and balanced. Also, let’s be honest: having sex once a year isn’t exactly a sign of thriving. If anything, it shows how low the bar has been set for what constitutes success in dating. Men’s struggles in this area go beyond just sex—it’s about the lack of meaningful relationships, connection, and purpose. That’s why I’m arguing for a shift in perspective. Instead of measuring success by metrics like 'getting laid,' we should f…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 02:49 PM
4

Let me clarify. When I said it’s difficult for men as a whole to embrace singledom, I meant that it’s hard to push this idea on a mainstream level because society has conditioned men to fear being single. Men are taught that their self-worth depends on being in a relationship, and breaking out of that mindset is no small task. But that doesn’t mean it’s not a viable option—it just means it’s not easy to get men to see it that way. Change like this takes time and a willingness to confront ingrain…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 02:45 PM
3

I can see that logic.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 02:39 PM
12

Right, see, that’s the kind of passive dating I’m talking about. In an ideal world, that approach might lead to more success, but that’s not how it usually works for most men. That said, you don’t come across as desperate, so I think you’re already halfway to achieving the kind of enlightenment I’m referring to.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 02:36 PM
4

Yeah so you're unfortunately one of the many victims of what I'm talking about. The hollowness you describe isn’t an inevitable outcome of single life itself but rather the result of societal conditioning that equates a man’s worth with his relationship status. When society tells us that being single is a failure or that fulfilment can only come from romantic partnerships with women, it’s no surprise that single life can feel hollow to guys like you. But that perception can change if we redefine…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 02:28 PM
6

Very true but what I'm seeing is that the abundance/quantity of men is the issue here. Not necessarily just quality. We're simply too available and we lose bargaining power with these lopsided gender ratios.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 02:25 PM
22

Many men operate out of a fear of being single, and that’s not healthy. I’d argue that over the years, this fear has overtaken genuine desire for companionship. It stems from societal conditioning that has led men to believe their only valid state of existence is when they’re coupled up with someone. It’s also worth considering that many of the larger social dynamics—like the breakdown of community spaces and the increasing isolation of modern life—are symptoms of the same systems that push men …
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 02:22 PM
1

You can express your point and not be a hypocrite at the same time.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 07:52 AM
3

Do you mean "grow up" as in becoming more comfortable with the idea of being single? If so, then yes, I completely agree.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 07:36 AM
3

Exactly. But the real question is: how do you encourage that? A lot of guys know that the only reason they’re experiencing even a little dating success is because they have no strict standards and are willing to entertain any type of woman. Raising those standards would likely result in less immediate dating success.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/25 07:34 AM
2

Yep thats called maintaining the status quo. Adapting to a shit system when we could actually change said system is stupid. This whole thing starts and ends with us not them.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/25 11:53 PM
5

If society encouraged us to opt out and remain single with the same energy they tell women to do the same, it could work. But trust me, those in power won’t allow that to happen because, as I mentioned, when we stop trying, the entire system falls apart and birth rates will decline even more rapidly. We’ve been convinced that we need women to an unhealthy degree, so much so that many men think they can’t live a normal life without one. This is largely due to intentional social conditioning by sa…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/25 11:47 PM
3

Everything is temporary—undeniably so. It’s a scary thought, but not a new concept. Maybe I won’t live to see it, but it’s almost guaranteed that this 'gender consciousness' future will manifest in some way, or perhaps something even more extreme will occur. One thing is certain: the current dating system won’t stay the same forever. Hopefully, women make the most of it while it lasts. I’m not even sure why the idea of men opting out would spark any dissenting female opinions, to be honest. As y…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/25 11:40 PM
1

Perfection. I'm trying to get like you.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/25 11:32 PM
1

Everything is temporary mate. You might not be around to see it and maybe I wont either but this current imbalance is not permanent. Women should make the most of this.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/25 10:44 PM
3

Women initiating more would just make men feel better. This is precisely why what OP is suggesting will probably never significantly improve
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/25 10:41 PM
3

Well said.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/25 10:39 PM
1

I’d tread carefully here. I think a woman’s pride often outweighs her desire not to be single. Every time we spout this nonsense about them eventually regretting their choices and wanting to be partnered later in life, they’re likely to dig their heels in even deeper and stay single out of sheer spite. Good for them, I suppose...
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/25 10:38 PM
1

Red pillers just want to maintain status quo. We will further regress doing things that way.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/25 10:35 PM
8

God I wish most men just opted out. This whole thing crumbles when we stop trying.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/25 10:34 PM
1

Woman are also not the ones hiding in bedrooms playing to many video games instead of socialising then complaining their struggling to meet anyone. One thing that does highlight as a red flag also is when women use lazy stereotypes and how quick they are to dismiss men’s struggles while reducing an entire gender to a caricature. You know a guy that got accused? I’m sorry that happened to him but he is in the tiny minority, I know 4 woman that did get raped and each rapist got away with it due to…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/25 10:31 PM
11

The entire dating system operates on the premise that women date passively while men date actively. Unfortunately, it’s been this way for a long time. Understanding this highlights that the entire system begins and ends with male initiative and interest. If men were to collectively opt out on a large scale, the system would have no choice but to adapt and change. In other words, yes—if more men like you and me existed on a larger scale, we might see real change. But right now, we’re far too avai…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/25 10:23 PM
3

Backwards thinking. Wake up. They want an equal world well then that means they have to put in some effort and initiate. Simple as that.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/25 10:12 PM
6

Bingo
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/25 10:08 PM
1

I think what we’re witnessing is a generation of men gradually realizing that the challenges and adversity involved in wooing women, dating, and relationships aren’t worth the effort. The expectations placed on both parties are not reciprocal, and somehow, that’s considered acceptable. You belong to an older generation of men who acted like simps and convinced yourselves that the current dating system is flawless and doesn’t need to change. But people are waking up. Refusing to participate in th…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/25 10:06 PM
1

"coward". Jesus man wake up. Refusing to play the game maintain the status quo isn't cowardly. Stop demonising guys that don't want to dance around for some useless pussy.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/25 09:52 PM
7

Slight correction. MEN abide by traditional roles (sadly). Not women and if they do it's just the stuff that makes things easier for them.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/25 09:49 PM
3

It's not a myth.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/25 09:40 PM
0

Ok include that in you're comment next time. Cheers.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/25 07:09 PM
1

I'm not disagreeing or agreeing about any of your waffle. Just warning you that you're wording in conversations like this matters and if you're intention is to come off as good faith this isn't the way to do it. Take the advice or don't but it's gonna help you avoid many misunderstandings. Also women do the very things you're claiming men do. You don't need to have multiple experiences to know or acknowledge that but I get your hesitance to do that seeing as you're a woman. It's annoying having …
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/25 07:06 PM
2

Again you're wording is lacking. Statements like this "Men like to pretend they know everything but many get upset when they don't instead of excited to learn more." aren't doing you any favours if you're attempting to appear neutral.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/25 06:52 PM
1

right. the point you're missing is that sex is an intimate experience between two individuals. If you aren't satisfied its probably better to communicate with your partner rather than bitch at strangers on the internet. We can't help you. none of use can help you with your personal intimate relationships. Isn't this "bitching" online you mention dominated by women? Reddit is full of women complaining about this so you should keep this same energy for you peers oh but you won't. I wonder why?
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/25 06:48 PM
1

She's doing terribly. I wouldn't support this.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/25 06:47 PM
9

You're close but your wording suggests women also don't get pissy when there efforts in bed prove to be bad. You're not gonna sound very smart if you make this a one sided thing.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/25 06:45 PM
–

Hobbies make your life as a man more fulfilling therefore negating any extreme need for female validation or intimacy. These men are better off mentally than the men with shallow lives who obsesses over women thinking they're gonna add anything of value to their life and make everything better. Making choices based on increasing your chances with women is a shit way to live your life. Do the hobby stuff because you actual care.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/25 11:24 PM
1

This explains the decline in birth rates then because I just don't see men appealing to this provider man role even its short term. We know what it takes economically to have kids and what needs to be sacrificed and both men and women are opting out. What we're not gonna do is act like only one side is struggling during this process of having/raising children. My issue is expectation that men’s primary worth lies in their ability to provide financially. That pressure hasn’t disappeared, even in …
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/25 01:09 PM
1

I'd hope most women expect a man to have a job and men the same for women. You're just not gonna brainwash me into believing you deserve or need to be financially provided for (not directed at you obviously).
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/25 01:02 PM
1

Not sure what all women want but I know that any expectation or demand for a provider man is inherently harmful.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/25 01:00 PM
1

Let’s not pretend this is a small task in todays world. Being a provider man isn’t just about having a job and stability; it’s about sacrificing your time, energy, and often your own goals to meet the financial and emotional needs of others. The pressure to build your entire identity around providing for others is exactly the problem. It’s an outdated and unbalanced expectation that sets men up to exhaust themselves for a dynamic that often isn’t reciprocal nor is it economically feasible for mo…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/25 12:59 PM
1

You’re oversimplifying the issue by acting like this is just men pushing the provider narrative. Sure, red pill spaces promote the idea that men have to be successful providers to get women, but they didn’t create that expectation out of thin air. The pressure for men to provide has been ingrained in society for generations, and it’s not just coming from men—it’s reinforced by cultural norms, traditional gender roles, and, yes, by women themselves in many cases. Take the recent 2024 U.S. electio…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/25 12:56 PM
1

That’s just not true. The idea that men should work themselves to exhaustion to financially provide for their families is still very much alive in modern Western societies—it’s just more subtle now. Even if fewer men outright overwork while their wives stay home, the pressure for men to be primary breadwinners hasn’t disappeared. It’s baked into cultural norms, media, and societal expectations, even if it’s not explicitly stated. You’re also wrong about it being obsolete or unaffordable througho…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/25 12:50 PM
2

Very true
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/25 12:48 PM
1

I think you’re focusing on a different issue than the one I’m addressing. The dynamics you’re describing—where both partners work, but women end up taking on the bulk of household and childcare labour—are absolutely valid concerns. But they don’t erase the societal expectation for men to be providers, which is still very real for many people. Whether you’ve personally seen couples with the dynamic I’m talking about is irrelevant. I’m not fabricating this—it’s a widely acknowledged issue that per…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/25 12:48 PM
1

Hell of a goal to have. Good luck.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/25 12:42 PM
0

Unfortunately I cant vote in general elections here in the UK and I'm not sure I would have many 'good' options anyway. All I can say is good luck to those women, as men no longer see a reason to align with what women consider "good provider qualities." Not worth it.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/25 12:42 PM
1

Well said.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/25 12:38 PM
0

The provider model isn’t just about unattractive or lazy men trying to compete; this is a societal expectation historically placed on all men, regardless of their looks, personality, or socioeconomic status. This isn’t some niche phenomenon tied to personal failings—it’s a cultural norm that tells men their worth lies in their ability to provide financially, even if they don’t want that role or can’t sustain it. You mention that 'provision' is a baseline expectation and not a source of attractio…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/25 12:36 PM
1

Your point about paid leave is spot on. A lack of paid maternity and paternity leave in the U.S. probably does keep these old dynamics alive, forcing couples into traditional roles out of necessity rather than choice. But the bigger issue is the lingering cultural expectation that men should be the provider, whether or not the circumstances demand it. It’s fascinating to see how these dynamics vary depending on geography, but trust me—this isn’t just an American problem. I'm English too, but our…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/25 12:24 PM
2

Good for you that it’s working out, but your situation isn’t exactly the norm. You’re in the top 10% of earners, which already makes your setup unrealistic for the majority of men. Most can’t just ‘decide’ to have a big family with a stay-at-home wife and magically make it happen in this economy—it’s not the 1950s anymore. The cost of living, childcare, and housing is through the roof, and wages haven’t kept up. And that whole ‘strong men’ quote? It’s a neat soundbite, but it oversimplifies real…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/25 12:19 PM
1

Who’ is the wrong question because it misses the point entirely. Social pressures don’t come from one person or group—they’re baked into culture, media, and everyday expectations. Asking ‘who’ is just a way to dismiss the issue instead of addressing it. The point is, these pressures exist, they’re real, and they trap men in roles that don’t work anymore. The better question is, why do we keep clinging to outdated expectations instead of moving forward? As for how it only serves one side—look at …
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/25 12:17 PM
1

Economy trumps biology and we’re not living in a hunter-gatherer or pre-industrial society anymore so clinging to outdated biological justifications doesn’t make sense when the economic realities and opportunities for both men and women today are so different.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/25 12:09 PM
1

I suppose this is what red-pillers often refer to as hypergamy. To be fair, every human strives for a comfortable existence, and for some women, that means being financially supported. As a result, a man who can provide is often seen as more attractive—even by women who claim to be progressive. The conflict arises in today’s economic climate, where such a man can no longer fulfill that role without facing severe physical, emotional, and mental strain. He may be making these sacrifices for a woma…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/25 11:44 AM
2

Society, patriarchy, women, conservative men etc. It's a bad faith stupid question.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/25 11:32 AM
1

I could say that this is also a YOU thing. We'll see which outcome comes to pass. Judging by electoral data it wont be yours.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/25 11:28 AM
-1

This take is only used when it's men complaining about something. Suddenly when women complain about cultural expectations its not made up and is suddenly valid. My issue is the expectation which is persistent.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/25 11:27 AM
2

Is there a chance these are different men? Women: men and women should be equal partners in an relationship! Also women: My man needs to be able to provide for me or he isn't worthy.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/25 11:19 AM
2

Yes men are too available and desperate in todays dating market giving women more choice. Not a crazy concept. I'm not ignorant to the ways us guys self sabotage.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/25 11:12 AM
3

Yes and I don't believe men should be expected to be the sole provider nor does this set up work anymore or benefit them.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 10:24 PM
1

It's a scam because a lot these modern women aren't built to appreciate these types of men unfortunately. They have their own incomes yet still expect and feed off provider men. This conflict occurs when you get so called progressive women who still hold onto traditional expectations for men but no themselves. A man working himself to the bone for such a woman is actively hurting themselves. Move past your one ideal scenario for a second and see how this dynamic can be harmful for the dude.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 10:23 PM
4

Yep. It's sad
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 10:16 PM
2

Sounds good and your situation sounds great but again I'm talking about deep cultural expectations here. Anecdotes don't negate any of that unfortunately.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 10:15 PM
3

expectations about men being providers are neither more nor less unfair than expectations about women being mothers and primary caretakers. both come with a lot of bs baggage and yet are still somewhat grounded in reality Ah, but that expectation is always met with resistance, largely due to movements like feminism, which have set new standards for women. Before writing this post, I tried researching whether other men have made similar comments but found very few examples. Men should be able to …
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 10:13 PM
2

I think you’re actually strengthening my point. Many men are marrying women with careers because they don’t want to be sole providers anymore—they’re rejecting that outdated expectation. But just because the provider role isn’t the standard anymore doesn’t mean it has disappeared. Plenty of well-off women still hold onto that expectation, and in today’s dating market, they can afford to. The dynamics often still favour those who can choose (with women having more power to choose), and societal p…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 10:07 PM
2

Right. They're upholding a system that actively hurts them. It's "voluntarily" in the same way Squid Game is voluntarily. In their minds it's the only but they don't see the scam.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 09:59 PM
4

There we go then.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 09:56 PM
1

Bill
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 09:55 PM
-8

You're just downplaying it in attempt to discredit my point. The idea of the sole male provider wasn’t a fantasy—it was a real cultural norm that shaped societal expectations, even if it wasn’t universally achievable. EDIT: Downvotes but no counter arguments. Good try guys!
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 09:54 PM
0

I don't really see feminism as a word getting to that point as it's way too gendered.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 09:50 PM
4

I'm struggling here because I'm not sure what relevance this has to my point or what you're trying to say.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 09:46 PM
3

That’s great that your setup works for you but the issue isn’t whether a traditional dynamic can work—it’s that men are often expected to take on the provider role, whether they want to or not and it's often never to their benefit.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 09:43 PM
2

I'm sure those conservative men are well adjusted happy individuals.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 09:36 PM
10

Right... I just found it interesting given that this group is often seen as the face of feminism in the West, yet more than half of them voted for Trump. White women are a significant demographic in the U.S., and their voting trends play a critical role in shaping election outcomes. My point was to highlight how these voting patterns reflect broader cultural dynamics and why there's a number of well off women demanding provider men. Not a racial attack.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 09:35 PM
7

I think this is a good and optimistic, albeit somewhat naive, perspective. There are plenty of women out there who, as you said, own capital, are educated, and can easily support themselves financially. However, when I say that modern women aren't compatible with the concept of provider men, I’m essentially saying that despite their education and financial stability, many will still play the role of a woman who needs a provider man so they can have their cake and eat it too. Feed off their partn…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 09:25 PM
4

Sounds like good individual advice for what's a deep cultural problem.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 09:19 PM
2

This makes more sense to me thanks. I think my confusion was coming from interacting with the "incels, ultra conservatives, and traditionalists." I guess my issue is I'm not sure I align with the mindset of accepting the way things are and want to see actual change. Maybe that means I need to practice what I preach and that comes with certain drawbacks like never dating or being in an relationship. Not sure there's a pill for that.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 09:17 PM
3

That's probably the answer to most human problems in the modern world yes. Appreciate the comments.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 09:09 PM
0

Jesus. Sorry to hear that man. I assume you've bounced back now?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 09:08 PM
12

How exactly is this a gendered attack? It’s a fact that most white women in America voted for Trump, and with that comes an alignment with conservative ideals. Those same ideals often uphold traditional gender roles, including the expectation for a man to be the primary provider. My point was simply to highlight how these voting patterns reflect cultural dynamics—not to attack anyone.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 09:07 PM
8

Explain how this is a racial attack?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 09:03 PM
0

That’s just not true. Yes, women have always worked in some capacity, especially in working-class families, but the idea of the sole male provider absolutely existed and shaped society for a long time. After World War II, it became the cultural norm in many Western countries, especially for middle- and upper-class families, where men worked and women stayed home. Obviously, this wasn’t the reality for everyone—working-class women, women of colour, and others often had to work too—but the expecta…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 09:03 PM
1

Yep 50/50 or 100/100 is the way. That's weirdly controversial concept for some women.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 08:57 PM
4

Birth rates are declining. I don't think we want children if it means working more than we already are for ourselves let alone for several others.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 08:53 PM
5

I'm more of the 50/50 100/100 type of guy. I reject the "breadwinner" stuff. We're both partners and we're both equals or it isn't going to work. We need more 50/50 or 100/100. That shouldn't be called feminist it should be called common sense especially in todays economy.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 08:50 PM
3

Right... You red pillers will be the end of us men.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 08:46 PM
7

I’d say social pressure plays a role, but part of me thinks your perspective on men might be too biased to convince you that, just maybe, we also suffer from harmful gender expectations. Like women, men often feel compelled to conform to these expectations out of fear of facing certain social repercussions.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 08:44 PM
6

In their minds, by virtue of being men, social pressures don’t affect us, and all we need to do is pull ourselves up by our bootstraps for everything to be fine. They are painfully unaware of the male experience but act like they understand it. There’s an empathy problem on both sides, as demonstrated by some of the women in this thread.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 08:39 PM
2

Appreciate the comment but men are going to continue to regress if we keep spouting the "it's just biology" mindset. It's a cop out. Things need to change and dudes like you are just working to maintain the status quo.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 08:34 PM
8

With birthrates declining this isn't the good point you think it is. Clearly both sides feel burnt out I'm just pointing why one side may feel that way. Good luck.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 08:31 PM
0

I'm more so recognising that the provider model is outdated, one-sided, and sets many men up for failure in today’s world. I'm aware you can just try and date women who want 50/50 but that's besides the point. This is more so me discrediting the concept of being a provider man. I get these basic comments are easy to make but they don't help with having a constructive debate. Cheers though.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 08:29 PM
6

Genuinely curious how one can be "smart about it". I think this would help men in countries like Japan (Karoshi) and South Korea (gwarosa) that clearly aren't aware of this. Not sure what to tell you. Newsflash: women can sometimes act entitled when they have options, especially if they have plenty of men willing to financially provide for them while they use their own money as a safety net. It’s not that they don’t understand the value or importance of paying bills; they simply don’t need provi…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 08:24 PM
3

My issue is the broader expectation that men have to take on the provider role regardless of the circumstances. Whatever SAHM situation you're in or will be in it's not feasible for most men and that needs to be understood so dudes don't find themselves exhausted. It’s great that you’re aiming for balance in your situation, but my post is about how this rigid provider expectation often sets men up for burnout and resentment in most setups.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 08:16 PM
1

I’m not entirely sure I follow
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 08:11 PM
11

I’m not saying these men aren’t working or supporting themselves. What I mean is they’re rejecting the idea of working themselves into the ground just to meet outdated expectations of being the sole provider. They’re still working and living their lives, but they’re choosing to focus on their own goals, hobbies, and well-being instead of sacrificing everything for a relationship where the effort isn’t balanced. A lot of men are starting to see that the provider role doesn’t offer the same respec…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 08:09 PM
3

I think I'm past the point of expecting women such as yourself to get "het up about these poor men". Clearly both 'sides' have an empathy problem and this comment felt a bit out of left field to be honest since we clearly agree with each other. The current state of the modern western world isn't very supportive for raising children but the purpose of this post is to highlight the unfair pressures men face in todays society one being to appeal to this 'provider man' role. This in turn effects a m…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 08:04 PM
14

It’s unfortunate that the biggest racial demographic of women in the USA (white women) have shown significant support for Trump and the Republican Party, which often aligns with religious fundamentalist policies.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 07:57 PM
5

You're essentially agreeing with me that the concept doesn't work with todays modern realities. Regardless as a concept I'd rather it die off so we didn't have so many men working themselves to death for what is essentially nothing.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 07:50 PM
6

I appreciate your comment, but your points touch on the very issues I hoped to avoid because they don’t contribute constructively to the debate. I can’t argue against personal anecdotes, and framing it as merely a matter of choice misses the core point. My argument is that, conceptually, the "provider man" role is a scam and a net negative for the average guy in today’s modern Western world. As you said, by all means, date women who don’t hold that expectation—but it’s hard to deny that this way…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 07:48 PM
3

Well said
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 07:42 PM
3

Facts
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 07:41 PM
2

Definitely an option worth entertaining but I'd be somewhat careful of those women as well. Maybe that's ignorant to say though.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 07:41 PM
2

Right but I can bring up a lot of examples where this is completely contradicted by her behaviour in the show. Don't want this to turn into some discussion about Everybody Hates Chris but still. She's incredibly toxic.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 07:39 PM
3

Not gonna lie I assumed red pill ideology was for the concept of provider men but your comment is suggesting otherwise. I genuinely need help understanding red pill I think.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 07:34 PM
4

Then no wonder we're seeing declining birth rates because I'm not seeing the logic in a man working himself to death. Carrying the financial load should also be acknowledged as effort and appreciated by women which is something many women are incapable of. Let's not go down this road.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 07:30 PM
10

So... especially under the US system, there's a lot of pressure for the women to be financially dependent on men if they have kids. Yes, there are work-arounds, but they mostly work if she is very well paid. So yes, if a woman is looking at settling down with a guy for the long term, and kids are on the table, it's pretty likely she is looking at his ability to provide. Having kids with a guy is making yourself really vulnerable. I appreciate the female perspective, but all I can say is good luc…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/25 06:35 PM
1

About what? Nothing I've said negates my belief of 50/50 100/100. You're trying to hard to start an argument so move on.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/25 10:31 AM
1

Whats your point here?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/25 09:49 AM
4

A non-hypocritical* one
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/25 09:45 AM
1

I only support 50/50 100/100. Cheers for the question though.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/25 09:25 AM
1

100/100 and 50/50 are essentially the same. Thanks for agreeing with me ha.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/25 05:22 PM
-1

Good luck
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/25 01:07 PM
0

Western women are conditioned to believe they are the prize so they won't take initiative. Entitlement.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/25 12:49 PM
2

Taking initiative for women is simply entertaining a 50/50 mindset so whatever energy a man gives you you give back equally without the man needing to start the interaction every time.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/25 12:43 PM
-2

Nah its entitlement. You guys realised men will chase you regardless of your passivity so you double down. When you've spent your life growing up in an society that has conditioned you to think you're the prize no wonder this happens.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/25 12:41 PM
19

I wonder how these so called progressive women can expect any cooperation from men if they themselves aren't willing to address their own biases and stop reinforcing gender roles.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/25 12:38 PM
30

Because its a convenient excuse to not have to work on themselves.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/25 12:35 PM
0

I see what you're trying to say but jobs objectively provide more value than women so whatever unfairness they present is worth fighting through. No one can afford to be jobless but we can easily afford to be 'womanless' and if someone is presented with a job opportunity vs a date with a woman they pick the job 10/10 so not sure the analogy works that well unfortunately. I also find it interesting how the 'life isn’t fair' argument is often brought up and widely accepted as valid when men voice …
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/25 03:11 PM
-1

I think the issue is also the number of average or below average women who require the same effort to date/woo than above average women. We live in a world now where said average/below average women are conditioned to believe they hold the same value as the above average ones so we get 4/5's acting like 8's and 9's. For men this means we have to put in the same effort we would for the above average women but for much less gain. Doesn't work. I'm sure some of this logic also applies to men with a…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/25 02:01 PM
2

Yep. We're simply to available. Women get to use that allowing them to more passively date so the men who are aren't available get left behind.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/25 01:53 PM
1

I'm good
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/25 12:53 AM
1

Nah not worth it. Good friends and family provide what you need anything other than that is just superficial.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/25 08:36 AM
0

Opt out as in stop pursuing women or attempting to date. This only works if it happens en mass so it's essentially a pipe dream but if their are no men to make the first move the status quo changes and for the better. Only the people that benefit from the current toxic way of things would argue with this way of thinking.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/25 02:07 PM
2

Right. Either the ideology within itself is contradictory, the people that follow it are confused or I'm severely misunderstanding something.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/25 02:06 PM
1

That's sad. We need to wake up.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/25 02:03 PM
3

No us men just need to opt out en mass and let the shit burn.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/25 01:03 PM
1

Yeah I don't like the choice men make to needlessly simp for women. We need to wake up en mass.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/25 01:00 PM
0

Whats there to get that's worth getting?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/25 12:57 PM
1

But to the detriment of men. Our constant need for female validation and intimacy has done more harm than good and will only get worse but society won't push for men to step away because it would drastically change the status quo. Time to wake up.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/25 12:50 PM
1

I don't understand red pill or it's purpose if they're still sucking up to women and putting them on a pedestal.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/25 12:46 PM
1

Sounds pathetic but to each their own.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/25 12:45 PM
0

There's no difference. Seeking approval = Simp behvaiour.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/25 12:43 PM
3

In your mind food and women carry the same exact value. Why is that? If someone sex starved and food starved had the choice between a woman or a plate a food they pick the food 10/10 because one holds significantly more value. Your example doesn't work. Dudes like you see a guy not have any interest in women and immediately assume there is something wrong with them because you overvalue them hence this post.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/25 12:41 PM
1

You don't HAVE to do this. You can just not have deep connections. But those who don't have deep connections die pretty early, are far more prone to depression, suicide, lower rates of happiness, develop mental illnesses, have FAR earlier development of dementia and generally have dog shit lives. Nope. This is propaganda designed to keep men desperate and endlessly chasing after women. A man who is indifferent, apathetic towards women is much harder for society to control, making narratives like…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/25 12:33 PM
1

We're beyond that now. It might be a necessity for YOU though. Times are changing and dudes like you will end up getting left behind if you don't wake up.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/25 12:22 PM
-1

So in your twisted mind sexual attraction is such an essential thing to be able to experience that someone unable to is...disabled.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/25 12:14 PM
8

"Now obviously being alone is not going to kill you" "It's just like telling someone who is starving to focus on a hobby or something" Food is an actual necessity to a mans life. Women are not. Their value to a man has been extremely overstated.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/25 12:12 PM
2

Dam thats scary
/r/PurplePillDebate02/01/25 08:28 PM
1

I also imagine that the type of man earning enough to support an entire household and multiple people is likely burnt out from working so much and probably has a lower tolerance for the challenges that come with a relationship.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/01/25 08:25 PM
1

As long as you don't blame men complain away!
/r/PurplePillDebate02/01/25 08:16 PM
3

That last comment is iffy but if we can use that to discourage more men from marrying then sounds good to me.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/01/25 08:14 PM
4

Idk why men screech about being single and alone and then, in the same breath, say, "Why do people get in relationships?" Is there a chance these aren't the same men?...
/r/PurplePillDebate01/01/25 11:21 AM
2

Are you aware as to how sexuality works? Clearly not.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/24 11:07 AM
2

Agreed. We as men need to get better at being alone. We're far to desperate and available.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/24 11:05 AM
12

Never let a woman have that much control over me.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/24 11:34 AM
1

Yes the concept is valid correct. You tried to discredit it and failed hence it took you days to respond. Bye.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/12/24 05:04 PM
1

And yet the words/concept are still valid. You couldn't discredit that so you go after the person.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/12/24 04:53 PM
2

My critique is that dismissing extreme or harmful behaviours by labelling them 'not feminist' avoids addressing the damage those behaviours can cause, both to individuals and to the movement’s credibility. If you disagree, that’s fine, but try to focus on the argument rather than deflecting with irrelevant shit. You're not actually saying anything of relevance is the issue. You're acting obtuse because you have no sensical counter points.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/12/24 01:35 PM
2

I understand the definition of 'radical' in the context of rights movements as advocating for foundational change. However, in this conversation, I paired it with 'nasty' to describe specific behaviours or attitudes that are harmful, not to critique the concept of deep societal change itself. It's possible to support radical change while also holding individuals within a movement accountable for their actions or rhetoric. Dismissing critiques by hyper-focusing on terminology doesn't address the …
/r/PurplePillDebate27/12/24 01:27 PM
3

Since I paired 'radical' with 'nasty,' it’s clear I’m referring to specific behaviours, not misusing the term. Let’s stick to the context of this discussion. You can’t dismiss everything harmful or extreme as 'not feminist' when it suits you. That kind of distancing avoids accountability while preserving the movement’s power, which is irresponsible, even if it’s effective.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/12/24 01:21 PM
3

No not at all. It's just very convenient to call the people who represent a more radical nasty side of your movement "not feminist". People would be more partial to feminism if you guys stop desperately trying to appear so infallible.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/12/24 01:01 PM
3

Please I challenge you. Keep in mind this is a new account so good luck! The question is will it be personally details or just superficial info...
/r/PurplePillDebate27/12/24 10:56 AM
3

Uh huh. I'm sure that's what you meant...
/r/PurplePillDebate27/12/24 10:53 AM
6

I am absolutely not findable online. I guess this is what they mean when they say social media ruined women and porn ruined men.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/12/24 10:46 AM
1

I really hope that AI and bots will push out real people out of sex work in the future. I could not agree more!
/r/PurplePillDebate27/12/24 10:09 AM
2

You do realise that not every woman who says something rude about a man is a feminist, right? No true scotsman
/r/PurplePillDebate27/12/24 09:29 AM
4

You guys resort to the excuse of "it's natural!" too much when justifying objectively shit behaviour.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/12/24 09:27 AM
7

This is a joke right? If not what do you do when guys like me who make an active effort to have no traceable or personal internet presence come around and your "research" fails and yields no results?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/12/24 09:22 AM
1

Not the dude you're talking to but to answer your last question yes. Bare in mind I haven't read the rest of your comment; just the last question because the concept of AI girlfriend's is super interesting to me.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/12/24 09:17 AM
13

Oh shit that was you?! I always have that post in the back of my mind.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/12/24 09:10 AM
1

You clearly don't grasp how big the world is. You could have met 100 women like this and they would still be the exception. There's not much to argue here. What works for male friendships generally doesn't for female ones. Glad YOUR experience has been different though!
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/24 05:45 PM
1

Unfortunately the women you have met are irrelevant. Generally the things male friends do with each other don't transfer to a male female friendship. Fact. You're going to dispute that because you desperately want to be right but that is the way this works.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/24 05:35 PM
1

Speak for yourself then. It's alright to be the exception.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/24 05:08 PM
1

Play fighting and roasting.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/24 01:42 PM
–

Close but we can't act like women aren't also pushing unrealistic expectations on men as they also don't know jack shit about men. The ignorance never goes one way.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/24 08:25 AM
–

Respectfully individual feelings aren't relevant. My issue is the precedent that's been set that one way of thinking is ok and the other isn't. Like I said if one is toxic and WIDLEY discouraged (men expecting sex) then so should the other (women expecting a free date). That needs to change. Unless you agree with that double standard there is no debate here.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/12/24 06:04 PM
1

Close but it's about how you define 'life'. If your definition surrounds things like self-awareness, learning, and adapting, then who’s to say said AI isn't alive? Again it's subjective and debatable so you won't get anywhere trying to make this seem objective.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/12/24 05:59 PM
9

I love how conveniently the 'But people aren’t equal' excuse gets thrown into conversations like this. It’s amazing how that talking point always seems to surface when it protects certain female benefits, but you rarely see it applied consistently across the board. Selective reasoning at its finest. another dude might insist on splitting a bill and wanting nothing to do with helping their partner have a great date. If this is how you think then you're too far gone. Why would splitting a bill imp…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/12/24 01:18 PM
-4

"Submissive Male" Told me all i needed to know but thanks for the break down. A secure person would have probably just moved on not needing to prove anything to me.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/12/24 01:01 PM
9

I just want to encourage a balanced dating experience where no is owed anything by virtue of being a man or a woman and where both parties display equal interest coupled with equal investment. No one is the prize. We're all just as special as each other. The fact that this is some debatable topic for some of you is genuinely concerning. This is why I encourage men to find strength and fulfilment within themselves, independent of female intimacy or validation, and to be prepared to lead a complet…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/12/24 01:00 PM
2

It is a pretty complex topic when talking about AI and what it means to be alive. Acting like it's some simple objective thing is quite funny.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/12/24 12:54 PM
6

Just stop expecting trad male behaviour then not behaving as a trad female and then calling yourself progressive. Simple as that.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/12/24 12:49 PM
-7

I'm glad you believe that.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/12/24 12:48 PM
13

You're not qualified for this heterosexual themed topic then. Your peresepctive and experience is entirely useless.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/12/24 12:47 PM
-7

This response makes sense. I pity you.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/12/24 12:44 PM
15

If you want trad treatment as a woman (the man paying and initiating everything) then you have to be a trad woman in return. What that entails most women are capable of so now only one side is expected to adhere to those norms.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/12/24 12:41 PM
-8

Wake up
/r/PurplePillDebate23/12/24 12:39 PM
5

That's the dream
/r/PurplePillDebate23/12/24 12:26 PM
1

Nope because like OP suggested you can still interact just limit it so you're not in any vulnerable positions. You can't truly avoid anyone unfortunately. Cheers
/r/PurplePillDebate23/12/24 12:23 PM
5

lack of female touch, sex and love actually does increase your risk of heart disease, sleep problems, and other mental illnesses. Propaganda to keep us mindless and thirsty for women. Wake up.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 06:33 PM
5

Lack of sex and female companionship is not good for a man’s health. Disagree. If you can't have an healthy existence without women than there is something wrong with you.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 06:12 PM
2

Right... I hope you're willing to play your role as a traditional woman in return then and I hope you know what that entails.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 06:10 PM
1

But if she is pursuing a platonic friendship he will deflect it and put no effort in to return it. Is she owed a platonic relationship? None of this is problematic. You're just trying to push the pathetic 'we can do it but they can't' shit which helps no one. Accept that some of us don't want you in our lives that much and move on. You literally benefit so why are you arguing this.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 05:45 PM
1

No "effort" to make friends with women is not shunning. If it happens he'll embrace it but he won't go out of this way to start one. You're ignoring the difficult questions because you don't have any answers. Why is this a bad thing? Who is negatively effected? The way these arguments work is you defend your view point!
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 05:38 PM
1

Again indifference to something is not shunning it. You need to look inwards and find out why the concept of men you don't know decentering women is bothering you so much. It's a win-win. You'd have to be very unstable to find a negative from this.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 05:26 PM
2

I don't see the problem. Who is effected? Why is this a problem? Also you guys don't own any 'terms' so nothing is being borrowed or twisted to be male. Indifference is not being "shunned".
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 05:09 PM
2

Key word "Need" Decentering women is not misogyny buddy. I get it's hard for you to hear you don't have inherent value just because you're a woman but it's time to wake up. Look on the bright side though; men are only slightly more usefull!
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 05:08 PM
3

Not me! They aren't needed in my life whatsoever. Keep it up though! They need someone like you defending them so passionately.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 05:00 PM
-1

We need you guys for the first 3. That's about it.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 04:49 PM
2

Yes I encourage females to do this en mass!
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 04:48 PM
0

Wanting a 50-50 relationship isn’t a luxury—it’s basic fairness. Comparing it to superficial demands like “6 feet, 6 figures, 6-pack” is nonsense. Fairness isn’t an unrealistic standard; it’s the foundation of a healthy partnership. Judging by your flair I am not surprised but I can't fathom why some of you want so badly to normalise this type of imbalance and write it off as a preference or an compatibility issue. Why is an equal dating experience such a big ask?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 04:47 PM
2

I'm lost. Not sure how you of all people could claim to be a part of counterculture.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 04:41 PM
2

Yep, and after "looking inward", I’ve realised this all stems from outdated gender norms that many women uphold because it benefits them. Sadly, most men have little incentive to break free from these norms because, as you mentioned, it makes dating more difficult. If you’re telling someone to "lower their expectations," maybe the focus should be on fostering mutual respect and understanding rather than perpetuating the same tired dynamics. Relationships aren’t transactional, and compromise does…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 04:30 PM
0

Sure. Men and women can be sexist based on bad experiences. Massive revelation...
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 04:23 PM
0

It isn't though hence my questions. How does decentering women equate to taking "your hurt out on every single woman just because she's a woman."? You don't understand your own point. Sad.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 04:20 PM
4

It’s not easily measurable, but let’s be real—if most women expect a man to pay, it’s not far-fetched to say that refusing to meet that expectation will make dating harder for you. Read this carefully: while we all have the freedom to date who we want, rejecting certain traditional norms as a man does limit your options and makes the process more difficult than it needs to be. If the goal is an equal dating scene, then we have to acknowledge that these outdated expectations still play a big role…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 04:17 PM
1

Ok? US is still good answer though.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 04:06 PM
0

But how is this taking "your hurt out on every single woman just because she's a woman."? No one is suffering here so you need explain that comment.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 04:05 PM
2

whoever does the asking should already know where they're inviting you to I’m going to chalk this up to you being bi and not fully understanding straight dating dynamics. In the vast majority of cases, it’s the man asking out the woman, which means it’s almost always the man expected to pay. Let’s not pretend women are asking men out at the same rate—if that’s your argument, it’s not grounded in reality and will be ignored accordingly. Your logic crumbles when you frame dating as some kind of on…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 04:01 PM
1

"Which cultures" was the initial question.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 03:52 PM
3

The conversation is about the initial stages of dating...
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 03:49 PM
2

Splitting has absolutely nothing to do with keeping score.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 03:47 PM
3

I don't understand why they can't start off that way then?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 03:45 PM
3

The reality is, whoever has an easier time either replacing their partner or a better time tolerating loneliness gets to win the power imbalance, and are often the one to receive more efforts and investments. Very well said. If us guys got better at the latter (tolerating loneliness) we'd definitely balance out the dating world.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 03:44 PM
-2

You're on the right track but what you're missing is that it's simply a much harder time dating if you don't play by their rules. It's part of the design and it's how dudes get trapped into doing shit they don't want to do.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 03:41 PM
5

The "punishment" is a much harder time dating but you're right there at least in that it's not a punishment. Women don't hold much value in the dating world anyway so it's not a loss if they're harder to date.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 03:36 PM
7

Jesus you are lost and severely brainwashed. You think agreeing to go on a date is "doing someone a favour"? That’s such a warped, entitled mindset. Dating isn’t a charity event; it’s two people mutually deciding to see if they vibe. And the whole “either you pay my way, or you go alone” attitude? That’s not partnership, that’s freeloading. If you can’t afford to go out, say no or suggest something within your means instead of expecting someone else to bankroll your participation. Relationships …
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 03:34 PM
6

The point is that there’s often an unequal investment between both parties during the initial interaction. They’re strangers—no one owes the other anything. A 50/50 approach is the only fair option. However, because traditional dating norms that disproportionately benefit women are still widely accepted and practiced, we often view these situations through that outdated lens.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 03:28 PM
5

At what point does it stop being a "compatibility" issue and start being unacceptable behaviour? I see this excuse being used a lot. Why are people so quick to defend questionable behaviour when it comes to women? If a man expecting sex after paying for a date is seen as toxic (and it is), then shouldn’t the expectation that men must always pay be viewed similarly? The double standard doesn’t hold up.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 03:25 PM
3

The US is a pretty easy answer.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 03:21 PM
1

If you don’t like women who expect the man to pay, don’t date them If these women were the majority this comment might have some relevance!
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 03:21 PM
0

I don't understand the comparison or your point.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 03:17 PM
1

I don't get it but ok!
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 02:37 PM
1

It's not logical but its basic human behaviour. You can disagree with it all you want though!
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 01:45 PM
0

Men and women have different experiences so based on those they would do it for safety reasons. Pretty simple.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 12:39 PM
–

Could be better
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 12:24 PM
1

You're right man. We should just remain silent and actively encourage a system that hurts us! /s Clown.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 12:13 PM
1

There's no "uniting" Pipe dream.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 11:59 AM
-2

Safety reasons.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 11:46 AM
-1

Seems weird to take your hurt out on every single woman just because she's a woman. I need this explained to me. How does a man doing what the OP says negatively effect women in anyway?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 11:45 AM
3

Not sure how any of this could be construed as "petty"? No one is affected but the individual.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 11:43 AM
3

A by product of said decision but I'd rather frame this as helping the individual man. Way safer for him.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 11:40 AM
16

I don't know why not being obsessed with women means someones in pain...
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 11:37 AM
8

The racial example just doesn’t fit here. The question is specifically about men and women, and it’s rooted in the dynamic where straight men often feel they need women in their lives—whether that’s for romantic or personal reasons. White people don’t think about needing black people in the same way, so the comparison falls flat. Also, with race, there’s a whole history of systemic oppression and exclusion that makes white people avoiding black people inherently harmful on a societal level. But …
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 11:35 AM
1

Yep thats what self preservation means...
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/24 11:30 AM
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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