OriginalGravy Archive

Upvotes	Title	Category	Author	Subreddit	Date (UTC)

Upvotes	Comment on	Subreddit	Date (UTC)
9	Perception vs Reality They don't realize that knowledge and ability is merely a stepping stone. They're not very good at optimizing for knowledge and ability either. The only insight and skill they desire is whatever is necessary to raise their status among their peers and the opposite sex. My issue with these sorts of people can be summed up in two words: unjustified focus. Perhaps there can be reason to have sex and engage in romantic relationships, it is unlikely to be universally wrong, but I don't think you woul…	/r/MGTOW	06/07/15 01:41 AM
6	I noticed that MGTOW often use phrases like "let it burn" and "starve the beast" with regards to society. But how is any of that being accomplished if MGTOW are still paying their taxes? MGTOW basically means pursuing selfish interests ("your own way"). It is a misconception that selfishness is necessarily incompatible with society or civilization/co-existence in general. Most people value others to some extent, and those values are thus a part of your selfish goals. Even if you did not particularly value others, there is purely selfish value in co-operative co-existence: playing non-zero-sum games benefits everybody on a long enough timeline --- even if you lose 10, if the tota…	/r/MGTOW	30/06/15 11:48 PM
2	Should I take a lack of support from others as a compliment? Fundamentally, the only thing that matters is whether you're right or wrong: do your decisions lead to a better future? What does the world look like after you've made that decision? What is your projection for how your life will change if you keep at it? When you know that you're right and they're wrong... well, there's a lot of ways to deal with that, and certainly it depends on the situation, but sometimes the right answer is just to not do anything at all. I've made it a habit that if someon…	/r/MGTOW	20/06/15 02:14 PM
3	Fuck off with this "I became MGTOW because I cannot get women" bullshit Yes, that does seem to be the core issue. Going your own way means rejecting some default modes of behavior such as culturally and biologically induced gynocentrism --- the pursuit of women as a necessity, a noble goal above all else. As a forum that is based upon rejecting such gynocentric narratives, r/MGTOW will naturally and necessarily attract content involving women. There is certainly value in discussing what to actually do once we've gone our own way, but it's probably never going to mak…	/r/MGTOW	09/06/15 09:27 PM
3	MGTOW and Gaming Could be more to it than that. Videogames are the sort of hobby that requires absolutely no socialization whatsoever, and you can easily spend countless hours and years gaming without ever getting tired of it. Compared to someone whose free time involves more social interaction, it should be easier for the gamer to go MGTOW, both because it's easier to imagine a life of high-value that is completely independent of women, without flinching at the idea of a "lonely" life, and because you're alread…	/r/MGTOW	08/06/15 07:25 AM
0	Slut-shaming holds MGTOW back You should judge everything you pay attention to, it's just a mental process of calculating how something interacts with the world and contrasting it with the alternatives. And assigning what you are contemplating a negative label or a positive label, is just writing down the conclusion of whether it generally has anti-value interactions or pro-value interactions. The question is how to ration your focus and attention, hence "excessive". It is a common failure state to focus a little bit too muc…	/r/MGTOW	07/06/15 07:18 PM
3	Slut-shaming holds MGTOW back I'm not sure if the concept of a moral "obligation" is all that useful. If something leads to a better future for you, you'd just do it. If there was an existent that, in spite of that recognition had to force itself to pick the better option --- then that would be a clear failure state, a problem with that existent's mind. If the word "problem" has any meaning whatsoever, this would be a problem, a big one. If something leads to a worse future for you, it is a farce to call it "moral" --- why w…	/r/MGTOW	07/06/15 06:56 PM
3	Slut-shaming holds MGTOW back I agree with the spirit of your message. An excessive focus on the character of other people, on how they live their lives... is typically unjustified --- unproductive, in the sense that spinning a reactionary narrative about these evil, evil people and all the evil things they do, typically makes you less capable of seeing the truth with any degree of accuracy. However. At its core, judgement is really just making calculations regarding alternative actions and their consequences. It can be perf…	/r/MGTOW	07/06/15 03:05 PM
3	A rant about how females tell us to "man up" Your analysis is pretty much spot-on, I think. When someone tells you to "man up" or "grow up", instead of giving you a detailed examination why a specific course of action would be to your benefit, that's the point where you stop giving them your attention. They're either trying to take advantage of you --- or they're an automaton, someone whose mind runs almost exclusively on a narrative of cultural and societal memes such as "the manly thing to do", with no understanding of how to make optima…	/r/MGTOW	02/06/15 12:42 PM
3	What if you don't know where to go? Welcome to a world where the only thing you have to do is follow the laws of physics. It's quite liberating, isn't it? You don't have to fit yourself into some abstract mold of "true happiness" that will somehow magically make your life good if you follow all the required, arbitrary rituals. You can just do whatever you want, and as long as your self chooses to continue existing, that's fine as is, isn't it? I find that when your life is full of value, you don't particularly care about such vagu…	/r/MGTOW	01/06/15 12:49 PM
2	As I was reading this, something hit me. Never get married. You'd see the world a whole lot clearer if you didn't feel the need to see everything through some bullshit narrative of big sides: "MGTOW" vs "Feminism", "our" tribe vs "their" tribe, and so on. You're spinning a story of how the world works in your mind and confusing it with how the world actually works --- you are confusing beliefs, statements and narratives with actual, direct, wordless reality. You are incapable of seeing past the words and looking at the real data: the underlying mathemati…	/r/MGTOW	28/05/15 12:33 PM
4	As I was reading this, something hit me. Never get married. No, that's not how facts work. Words are representations of reality, not reality itself. The underlying reality is perfectly wordless. A string of words is never the facts themselves, it can at best be an accurate representation of the facts: close enough to reality that the average person reading it will correctly imagine/extrapolate what the underlying reality actually looks like. I think you genuinely don't understand why such statements represent a misunderstanding of how reality actually wo…	/r/MGTOW	27/05/15 10:05 AM
3	As I was reading this, something hit me. Never get married. Yet here you are asking for citations and getting on my shit for a fact. No, I specifically assumed that you had a good source and weren't just talking out of your ass. This wasn't ambiguous, I literally said: "let's assume that that study is actually correct" --- and then proceeded to write four paragraphs on what sort of real phenomena might result in such a statistic link. Here's an uncomfortable truth for you: Your skin is thin. Some people didn't like what you said, and it put you into into…	/r/MGTOW	27/05/15 12:17 AM
6	As I was reading this, something hit me. Never get married. I assume you've read a study of some sort that makes this claim. Let's assume that that study is actually correct, that the methodology wasn't utterly horrible or anything: they studied a reasonable number of people, and found a statistically relevant correlation. There's still a very big problem with a statement like "married men live longer than unmarried men". The problem is that it seems like meaningful information. It seems like information that can be generalized. Most likely it cannot. Wh…	/r/MGTOW	26/05/15 06:48 PM
2	How much do you define your "masculinity" standards? Everything is an attack on all fronts and not giving up on any fronts. "Thinking is pain" --- is a belief that practically no one would ever consciously express. It doesn't make sense for an existence that relies upon thinking for survival and... everything, to associate it with pain. And yet, on some deeper level, I think almost everyone believes it. Most people will look at what you just said, identify the desperation in it, and think to themselves: "How exhausting, what a horrible life!" But …	/r/MGTOW	23/05/15 11:42 PM
4	How much do you define your "masculinity" standards? I've talked about this before but... everything in reality is very, very specific. To solve a specific situation you need specific knowledge, context. So why would one turn to abstractions instead of just a vast set of specific knowledge? Well, because you can't really simulate every single atom of real situations in your head. Your mind just can't handle that load. So abstractions have value in part, because they are general, because they are non-specific, focused on what "matters". The real va…	/r/MGTOW	21/05/15 04:56 PM
6	gy·no·cen·tric The sub has always been like this. Half of it is miscellaneous ranting/venting, half of it is genuinely insightful content, which is why I'm subscribed here. That is an amazing ratio. The default expectation seems to be that the content of a forum should be 90+% good. In reality, even getting it to 80% would be a miracle of improbability, unless you pre-select and gate the userbase. I have yet to find a single subreddit that has more insightful content than r/MGTOW. Most subs are way below 50% q…	/r/MGTOW	17/05/15 01:48 PM
1	Question: How do men solve their problems? Next, while you are working on other things, the "solving problems" mind often -- by the mere act of focusing on those other/different things -- will subconsciously view the other problem (the one you've set on the proverbial "back burner") from a different angle and will come up with some new approach or solution. I quite frequently find that the instant I stop thinking about a problem, that's when inspiration strikes and I come up with an answer. I suspect the cause of this is that when you're…	/r/MGTOW	12/05/15 10:20 PM
21	On the issue of less sexually experienced men abstaing from relationships and sex with women I'm not a fan of learning through your own mistakes. It's risky. More importantly, it's an infinite time sink. You cannot commit every single possible mistake in the universe just to be a little bit more certain about your conclusions. The best part about sentience, about sapience, is the fact that you can reach the right answer without personal experience. There is more than enough data on the mistakes of others regarding relationships, that even a virgin who's never held hands with anyone shou…	/r/MGTOW	12/05/15 10:17 AM
3	MGTOW is largely a symptom of a greater problem I get the point: be alpha in order to maintain a better civilization. Raise better children for a better next generation of people. The next generation doesn't matter. It never has. If I die, civilization might as well perish. This isn't nihilism. I have values. These values exist only as long as I do. With my death, with the annihilation of my soul, those values terminate. There is nothing of value beyond my death. There is no hope in the notion that your life exists for the survival and progre…	/r/MGTOW	02/05/15 04:06 PM
4	Cognitive Dissonance - Just read it. But the truth is I still want in that room. The thing is, you can modify your inherent values. It can easily be argued that you should do this: if you don't, you will be stuck with the status quo forever and ever and ever and ever --- what are the odds that the wants you happen to have are the best wants that you can have? The inside view will always prefer the inside view, the inside view will always prefer what is normal, no matter what normal is. As you say, what we regard to be normal today …	/r/MGTOW	14/04/15 05:25 PM
2	Are children the meaning of life? MGTOW Yep, it's good to help people when you can comfortably afford it, when it's fun. It comes naturally, when your life is already filled with value and you can help others without a need to give up on your happiness, health or general quality of life. Even from a purely selfish perspective, a world filled with happy, intelligent people tends to be much more pleasant than a world filled with miserable idiots, so helping where you can is perfectly reasonable behavior. It's a shame that in spite of th…	/r/MGTOW	10/04/15 12:09 AM
2	Stop using Manchild! If you are going to start wondering into philosophical tangents you need to establish solid definitions. Definitions, philosophy, labels. 99% of human philosophy is pure shit, a conglomerate of idiot babblers who have taken us further and further from an accurate view of reality, whose speech serves to confuse more so than it does to enlighten. Don't get caught up on meaning, arguments, labels, whatever. The point of communication is to analyze and derive the meaning of what another is trying to…	/r/MGTOW	07/04/15 04:46 PM
2	Stop using Manchild! Your ability to socially and politically navigate the real world solely depends on other people. This viewpoint has always been half wrong and in the modern era, is very, very wrong. It's old-fashioned. Yes, it used to be the case that your reputation determined your ability to support yourself. The work I do today is almost completely anonymous. My income is much, much more dependent on what I actually do than what people think of me. The problem with your perspective is that you are focusing t…	/r/MGTOW	07/04/15 11:15 AM
6	Stop using Manchild! Exactly this. Agree-and-amplify is one of the better ways of dealing with shaming language. When someone tries to shame you by calling you a child, their primary goal is to make you feel bad. I mean, the sentence isn't literally true, so there has to be some other goal. Arguing against such an accusation gives it validity, and it means they have succeeded at riling you up. Proudly stating that yes, I am a child, conveys the implication that your way of living life is proper. The hidden meaning b…	/r/MGTOW	06/04/15 10:08 PM
2	Well, in fact, I am a manchild indeed. Almost any RPG: WRPGS, JRPGS, CRPGS --- pretty much anything that has a big focus on either storytelling or literal roleplaying is going to have a focus on worldbuilding. I'd say Final Fantasy X, Lost Odyssey and Nier are my favorite RPGs. Of the three, FFX has the biggest focus on worldbuilding. Say what you want about the characters, some hate 'em, some love 'em, but the world of Spira was extraordinarily well-made. Quirky, bizarre games. When the game mechanics are completely disconnected fro…	/r/MGTOW	05/04/15 04:11 PM
19	Well, in fact, I am a manchild indeed. I used to travel a lot (twice a year). Double-digits in countries visited, though it's closer to 10 than 20. I stopped when I realized I enjoy videogames much more. What you need to realize is that virtual worlds actually exist. If it wasn't a part of our reality, you wouldn't be able to experience anything, you wouldn't know that videogames exist, because they wouldn't. It is just as real as going for a run: it is less physically stimulating, and your sense of smell gets pretty much zero activa…	/r/MGTOW	05/04/15 02:16 PM
7	Could Women Cope with the Amount of Sexual Rejection Men Cope With? Part of going my own way has been the realization that even thinking about others isn't necessarily worth my time and focus. And it's not just from the perspective of opportunity cost: regardless of time and effort, occasionally it just has negative value. There's really just so many goddamn people everywhere, whether in the real or on the net. There's no way that paying attention to every one of them, noticing every one of them, is the best thing you could be doing. Arguments in particular are …	/r/MGTOW	29/03/15 07:28 PM
3	Are children the meaning of life? MGTOW Helping others is the key to happiness That's wrong, though. I mean, sure, there is value in helping others. If you value life you probably value civilized society, which means there's value in co-operation. And our brains do seem to be wired, to some extent, to feel pleasure at helping others. And yet, people have way, way more values than just helping others. And as long as we remain individuals, as opposed to a telepathically-linked collective consciousness, achieving your own values is alway…	/r/MGTOW	24/03/15 08:11 PM
7	MGTOW and the meaning of life And here is my problem: I think that there is only one possible meaning in life: The production of offspring. If you cannot reproduce, you are a failure in a biological sense. Reality is just stuff happening. There is no universal force, no god, who has split all things that exist into the categories of "meaningful" and "meaningless". The very idea of "meaning" in a general sense is a confused concept. There is meaning only in a relative, specific sense, e.g. "X is meaningful in achieving Y". Li…	/r/MGTOW	26/02/15 10:56 PM
3	The simple man dilemma. My personal plague. I'm not quite sure what the problem is here. It sounds to me like you have a clear grasp on what your actual values are, that you've done the necessary calculations, and concluded that the two offers you've got do not align with your values. But you're hesitating, because the people around you are... seemingly doing nothing else but throwing around random noise and buzzwords, clearly conveying that your job offers are good, but not much else. Do you doubt your own judgement? Do you think these p…	/r/MGTOW	21/02/15 04:11 PM
4	I don't just hate women. I hate the whole human race. I prefer "stupid and insane". Some problems are caused by actual greed and malice, sure. Most are the result of ignorance and incompetence. Painting humanity as evil isn't healthy nor is it helpful: the amount of people who explicitly revel in the suffering of others is fairly low. I would say that the general problem isn't a moral one, it's the fact that the brain is a sub-optimal vessel of thought which comes prepackaged with some rather unfortunate primal instincts and biases. Most people can…	/r/MGTOW	21/03/14 04:12 PM