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ProMaleWatch Archive

View 0 posts and 53 comments by ProMaleWatch on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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3

Not the textbook definition. Then perhaps it would be better for everyone if you make a separate post to discuss your own version of the term so we can settle on the definitions.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 09:35 PM
2

I am not an anti-statist. The state is at best but a necessary evil, but at this stage obsessing about dismantling the state is counterproductive.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 09:12 PM
1

You didn't even define "modes of production" correctly to talk of "kin corporate modes of production."
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 09:09 PM
2

The state is the modern collective. It seems more complex and distant, that is, harder to describe to the layperson, but nevertheless it is a collective institution that sets and enforces rules and aids those it recognizes as eligible. Although the talk of "individualism" wouldn't be possible without the state, yes.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 09:00 PM
2

Are you sure you replied to the right comment?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 08:56 PM
3

Do you agree that western society is individualistic? No. Single mothers still rely on the police and the state to racket fathers and deny them visits to their kids. Relying on complex collective institutions is a mark of a collectivist society.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 08:44 PM
2

Don't try to bump me off the track. Focus on what needs fixing (removal): In more gender egalitarian societies but who still move in the kin corporate mode of production, men are even more expendable. They are usually not part of the children's lives. And instead they are fighting hundreds of kilometers away against another nation to get more territories to create agricultural colonies.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 08:41 PM
2

Yes I see the big picture. For all the privileges women get, they can't even raise their kids decently without father involvement.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 08:39 PM
2

That was the wrong comment you replied to.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 08:34 PM
2

Right now it is women who are to blame for single motherhood, capitalism is bad, but it ain't what alienates fathers from their kids.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 08:32 PM
2

I don't have time, somehow I have to answer your comment spam in the meantime. Even your psychologytoday article has set me back on schedule.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 08:30 PM
1

Rubbish? Men do not have control over women. Even in traditionalist societies of the past, where men had more protections by family law, men didn't control women. Especially they did not CONTROL women. You are talking of some parallel imaginary universe it seems. Your paragraph ain't even mentioning "patrilocal" societies. It says "gender egalitarian societies." This belongs in the trash: In more gender egalitarian societies but who still move in the kin corporate mode of production, men are eve…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 08:29 PM
2

That is beside the point. Single mothers alienating fathers from their kids is a bad parenting strategy. Telling that single mothers lack the time is a pathetic excuse. What were they thinking when they were driving the father away?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 08:15 PM
2

So you weren't even talking about gender relationships. This whole paragraph of yours belongs in trash: In more gender egalitarian societies but who still move in the kin corporate mode of production, men are even more expendable. They are usually not part of the children's lives. And instead they are fighting hundreds of kilometers away against another nation to get more territories to create agricultural colonies.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 08:02 PM
1

So if you see that what I'm saying is incoherent and not just wrong is because you are not understanding me. Maybe you just don't make sense? So I wish you for stating in a clear way the parts where I contradict myself so I can pinpoint what exactly believe. You still avoid answering what made women build coalitions with men who were less successful hunters. You can start with that.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 07:50 PM
1

This implies women are linked to childrearing, while men are linked to wage labour. No. Women worked for pay and in the field. At the same time, men were involved much more with parenting than in modern times. Why do you think the single mother epidemic has resulted in more child abuse and young adults failing to launch?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 07:47 PM
1

Unfortunately there is no way for me to answer without letting you misrepresent my position.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 07:38 PM
1

The more you answer, the further you take away from discussion and responsibility for your words.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 07:33 PM
1

Sorry, you're not a good Marxist to begin with for me to trust your recommendations.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 07:24 PM
1

Read everything I write taking that into account. Yes I did, and your claims nicely cancel each other out: In a term of control. I almost always use inequality in a political term (that is in a terms of who has control over who) because I believe all these systems harm everyone involved. Believing that having control is equivalent to being happy is a falacy that I try to not get involved in. [My statement contradicts itself] In a strict political sense. Not in a happiness sense. I believe in all…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 07:22 PM
2

However, all these sociobiological issues need to be put into context and in relationship with all the different aspects of the social and cultural structure. You aren't "putting in context." You just bring up random claims as if they don't need to be proven first.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 07:19 PM
2

Sounds like you're cherry-picking to come to the "right" (pre-determined) conclusions.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 07:13 PM
1

Am I being more clear? Not at all. Women and men both have in their interest that no person (man or woman) gets their own individual situation better in independence of the situation of everyone else. How that interest arises? What is the point of everyone having the same outcome in prehistoric societies?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 07:10 PM
2

You can start with real problems then. KCMP ain't to blame when there are much simpler explanations to human behavior and human society.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 07:03 PM
2

But I am describing a system. The system doesn't exist in isolation, what are you on about? Yes!!!!!! Economics are to blame for genealogy!!!!!! How?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 07:00 PM
1

Although the specific system we are fighting is the PKCMP If you are fighting whatever-KCMP, count me out of it. It's all sounds too much like conspiracy theory.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 06:57 PM
2

I just believe that the issues that cannot be changed in human nature..... cannot be changed. Right, but we can discourage destructive behavior. That's the whole point of government. it is biologically inevitable for men to have lots of workplace fatalities Contrived argument, not at all convincing.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 06:52 PM
2

Will you finally answer why this arrangement gets the support of women or not?! If everyone eats the same, then the fate of the band and the fate of the individual is the same, you see. So that would be the point of reverse hierarchy. Frankly, this is just talking in circles.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 06:49 PM
2

This explains why "beta males," to borrow your disingenious term, are tolerated, but not why women would start building coalitions with them against "alpha male" interests.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 05:01 PM
2

That's besides the point. You can't use always use "PKCMP" and act surprised when it's convenient to you, because our points supposedly aren't inclusive enough of MKCMP or KCMP.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 04:57 PM
2

I believe we need to change society and societal structures in order to change a social problem. You're dangerously close to stating that humans are born as a blank slate. If you believe that focusing on society dismisses personal responsability and agency, that is a perfectly valid posture. So your rhetoric does dismiss personal responsibility and agency, huh?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 04:52 PM
2

Karen Sacks So the only "anthropologist" you've actively studied is a gender ideologue? "Mode of production" means, in marxist terms, the social organization that mediates societal relationship with nature. You are wrong. In the writings of Karl Marx and the Marxist theory of historical materialism, a mode of production (in German: Produktionsweise, meaning "the way of producing") is a specific combination of the following: Productive forces: these include human labour power and means of product…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 04:46 PM
2

economical system usually puts men in charge of starting wars. Using your logic, economics put queens in charge of starting wars too. The title of a queen or a king was usually hereditary, economics are not to blame here. So it is the system that is warmongering, the kings and queens are just playing their part. This is laughable. Everyone can be said to play his part this way. Some people's words carry more weight, and they as a result should carry more responsibility.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 04:39 PM
2

I believe women do have agency. Well, drop the excuses then. KCMP concept is superfluous to male issues.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 04:26 PM
2

Why not ally with "alpha males" then and throw "beta males" away? /smh
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 04:24 PM
2

It is not linked to being a PATRILINEAL kin corporate mode of production. That's why literally none of your comments to this sub discuss MKCMP, sure, sure. /smh
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 04:23 PM
1

I said across the animal kingdom. Which is true. Insects are not even relevant to this discussion. Stop trying to straw man me.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 04:18 PM
1

There are less queens than kings however. Only because of it men can be said to wage more wars, which proves my point. In relative numbers, women are the biggest warmongers.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 04:13 PM
2

All animals? Including, like, beetles? Sponges? Animals work very different one from another. Not even all mammals work the same. Sure, shift the goalposts, o dishonest one, it shows that you lack solid refutations. On the contrary, if it were biological, then women would have not agency. No, it doesn't follow.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 04:11 PM
1

In a strict political sense. Not in a happiness sense. I believe in all these societies, happiness amongst men and women are roughly equal. Sure, o dishonest one! I've noticed how you switch definitions at your whim when it suits you.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 04:05 PM
1

kin corporate system You made me doubt those "systems" even exist, so your defense is a step backwards. Both in patrilocal and matrilocal societies, males are disposable. Right, so the so-called "PKCMP" is a red herring at best in this venue.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 04:01 PM
1

The second is that in communal societies there is effort made to avoid creating a difference between the survival of the band and the survivals of individuals of the band. The intention of forcing egalitarianism is that one, to create a fusion between the ionterests of the individual and the band. Why should they undertake the effort?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 03:47 PM
1

This doesn't answer my question at all.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 03:42 PM
1

Yes, queens are more likely to wage wars than kings.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 03:40 PM
1

Tribal politics is part of the reason why taliban society is so heavily patriarchal. That is called circular logic, you've never explained why rigid family structures imply the patriarchy, you don't have a right to make claims based on what you failed to prove in the first place. Based on that and all my previous points, in addition to the other commenters' consensus in this thread, I've no choice but to conclude that what you call "kin corporate modes of production" is just garbage.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 12:33 PM
1

In more gender egalitarian societies but who still move in the kin corporate mode of production, men are even more expendable. How that makes those societies "more gender egalitarian"? Your statement contradicts itself.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 12:23 PM
1

Let me say that hypergamy makes sense in these societies. Hypergamy manifests itself across the animal kingdom, hypergamy takes root in biology, not in society. If societies are deeply patriarchal and deeply inegalitarian, then women are much more hypergamous, This is just an anti-male excuse to deny women's agency.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 12:12 PM
1

There is a gradation where in some societies males have extreme power over women where in others it is egalitarian or slightly favours women. Women in extremely inegalitarian societies are even seen as literally propierty or literally things. Women are gifts a clan gives to another to ensure an alliance. Only if you study gender relationships by Turd Flinging Monkey-like nut jobs or the feminists. This is a de-facto anti-male position.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 12:01 PM
1

So, how does kin corporate mode of production works and why does it create patriarchy and male disposability? Nonsense? Rigid family structures do not imply patriarchy. In fact women always had their say in marital affairs of (grand-) sons and daughters. Parents get to control their children lives, since they have to decide what will be best for the survival of the family. Yes, "parents" includes mothers i.e. women, but sometimes the opinion of elder sisters/brothers and grandparents also carrie…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 11:51 AM
1

Patriarchy is a real anthropological structure heavily studied since XIX century. So what does it mean in the context of anthropology? Are there any specific studies by impartial anthropologists, as opposed to gender ideologues? But what patriarchy really means is more nuanced that college students seem to describe. Define "college students." People of all walks of life have whacky beliefs, and you even don't seem to be talking of the same fields of study. Of course "gender" studies will have th…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 11:41 AM
1

my main point is kin corporate mode of production, how it works and why it leads to male disposability and other things!!! Before we even start, do you think that women lack agency? Wouldn't women pressure men to be disposable in prehistory?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 11:30 AM
2

But as portrained by Dunbar, the evolution of language had the specific evolutionary advantage of create coalitions between females and beta males through gossiping and boasting-shaming against alpha males (who tried to gain power and influence through high quality hunting). How women benefit from put-downs on productive members of society (alpha males)? Why would they even consider an idea of coalition with not-so-productive men?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 11:20 AM
2

Almost all wars were started by men. Only in absolute numbers. Relatively speaking, women were more likely to become warmongers than men.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/10/19 11:09 AM
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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