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RicardusAlpers Archive

View 2 posts and 189 comments by RicardusAlpers on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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1

Noticed it a bit late, but here's the intelligent response from AMR: "18 years of forced labor is no cake-walk either. More men die in manual labor every year than women die in child labor every year." Pressing MR issues: how to abscond from your responsibilities because you're a POS Great title. The whole "women can just give it up for adoption or get an abortion" argument is such bullshit. Do they think giving a child up for adoption is like dropping off an overdue library book? Have they paid…
/r/MensRights19/07/17 09:27 PM
0

No, not seriously.
/r/MensRights19/07/17 02:31 AM
–

Cassie Jaye is a traitor DEFECTOR just like Laci - very sad. White women are fleeing feminism, all because of the $$.
/r/MensRights18/07/17 08:54 PM
1

Well - good for you I guess; it's a very stupid place. Maybe I was overexposed lol
/r/MensRights18/07/17 07:53 PM
1

and are sentenced more harshly for violent crimes. Since this is something done by the state, a very powerful and organized entity obviously that reflects society's attitudes to a significant degree (and not just the criminal scum part of it, but all the good ones), I argued that some could attribute more weight to that and consider it enough of a counterbalance. But ultimately yeah, I didn't really wanna argue about this too much, what jokes are supposed to be more accepted based on which facto…
/r/MensRights18/07/17 07:51 PM
1

There's no point in debating AMR. You can't fix stupid. If they write some bullshit about a thread on r/MR, and then the reader clicks on the link and immediately sees the rebuttals and clarifications to said bullshit, it can take a good amount of "power" from said misrepresentation/circlejerk even if it doesn't generate real doubts. Plus, not everyone on there is a mindless zealot - some seem open to nuance; numerous commenters on the recent Laci Green thread objected to others calling her "alt…
/r/MensRights18/07/17 07:33 PM
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This is like suggesting that governments start responding to homeless crazy people shouting conspiracy stories on street corners. Another question is the amount of unregistered readers vs. registered ones (i.e. the ones that are 17 times fewer) - Ghazi keeps being mentioned everywhere, so I'm not sure how irrelevant it really is.
/r/MensRights18/07/17 07:25 PM
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They know their arguments are wrong. They know their beliefs are wrong. You can't convince them of what they already know. Are you sure they're consciously lying as opposed to just being zealous/delusional/biased etc.? At any rate, such efforts are obviously never primarily aimed at the hardcore ideologues, but more so at those who're just misled by the links they happened to click on, fence sitters, readers etc.
/r/MensRights18/07/17 07:08 PM
1

Ah, maybe, I didn't count the numbers - what about GamerGhazi, are those relevant? That's where I found AMR - GGh is about as small, but they keep being referenced everywhere. However, if they really don't matter, then obviously this exercise wouldn't have too much of a point.
/r/MensRights18/07/17 06:47 PM
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Since a woman killing (or raping) a man is likely to result in a lower sentence, and a less harsh condemnation by society, wouldn't you say it's more problematic in a way? Or that, since you can't draw a one-sided picture and need to find balances instead, arguing why this bad joke is better than another bad joke becomes pointless?
/r/MensRights18/07/17 10:06 AM
1

Secondly, if that happened, I have little doubt I would beat her to within an inch her life. If chokeholds depend on strength this much, I'm sure any smarter woman with fighting experience would go for more vulnerable methods.
/r/MensRights05/07/17 05:21 PM
1

Even if it's true, could you imagine this story the other way around? I'm a man and I've had women grab my ass in bars before. Could you imagine any world where it would be okay or justifiable for me to respond by violently assaulting her, dragging her out with a chokehold, calling the cops on her, having her arrested, taking a picture of her as she's crying in shock and then posting it on the internet for everyone to share in my "great victory" over this woman who grabbed my ass, and then incit…
/r/MensRights05/07/17 05:11 PM
2

Article says she refused to name a reason, but then at the end she's quoted as saying she had her hands full with other work and had no time apparently. Sloppy article.
/r/MensRights05/07/17 04:32 PM
2

Yep; onion level, unbelievable.
/r/MensRights05/07/17 04:17 PM
2

No, liberals and nature have different definitions of a baby. Baby is after it's born, or AT MOST very shortly before it's born; fetus, embryo and zygote are the earlier stages at which most abortions occur, though colloquially people might call them child or baby. And, rest assured lol, nature does very much differentiate between 4 cells, a developing abomination that looks like an alien lizard, a baby that's inside a womb and a baby that's outside the womb. Abortion it justified because it req…
/r/MensRights05/07/17 03:58 PM
0

I'm watching it now and parts of it are so emotionally painful it's hard to keep from full tilt crying my eyes out. Don't take risky jobs then though?
/r/MensRights05/07/17 03:47 PM
0

Gish gallop, hey hop.
/r/MensRights04/07/17 05:16 PM
1

I never started debating because you refused to take your adderal and stay on a topic for more than half a minute, The topic was the article, I never left the topic :D making it impossible for me to have any productive conversation. That was on you, quit blaming others for your problems. You think you won a debate, that never acftually happened... I successfully deconstructed some of the essay's damning flaws - I wouldn't say I "won the debate", considering you never read those posts and hence n…
/r/MensRights04/07/17 04:01 PM
1

Get help for what - how to lose an online debate?
/r/MensRights04/07/17 03:24 PM
1

You're a dumbass.
/r/MensRights04/07/17 03:13 PM
1

but didn't Leigh Alexander's "Gamers are dead" Oh... I thought all the synchronized gamers are dead articles came out as a reaction to the Zoe thing; were they ripping off an even older article with that? and Anita Sarkeesian's videos come first? Yup, and she also got harassment and the reasonable responses got smeared - however, it wasn't officially part of GG and only melted with it in the aftermath. GG and the idea that it started with a slut-shaming case also ended up being more notable than…
/r/MensRights03/07/17 11:47 PM
1

What's TiA, don't think I ever heard of that? It's interesting to ponder what kind of future split-offs and developments might arise - the way Mgtows are a separate group, maybe it's best for the really frustrated types to find some kind of AA equivalent, and leave the "MRM movement" with a clearly defined face. Back a few year ago, Afvm had a really dodgy reputation outside, because people would find lots of crazy comments there, which weren't disavowed by said policy either - the movement coul…
/r/MensRights03/07/17 04:18 PM
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Probably the 6th thread here already about this very subject, but then who clicks beyond the first page anyway? I know I don't.
/r/MensRights03/07/17 03:01 PM
7

This is hilarious lmao: . At a stroke, the one thing that women had going for them has been taken away, the one respect in which they had the last laugh over their husbands and lovers. DNA tests are an anti-feminist appliance of science, a change in the balance of power between the sexes that we’ve hardly come to terms with. And that holds true even though many women have the economic potential to provide for their children themselves. Makes one wonder how self-aware she is about essentially adv…
/r/MensRights03/07/17 02:39 PM
1

Just get their fuit in the door ken.
/r/MensRights03/07/17 02:24 PM
2

wat
/r/MensRights03/07/17 06:10 AM
1

You're crazy. You still can't pick one topic... I don't have to. Who ever told you you had to only pick one topic, under any circumstances? I'm done No, I was done with you 2 posts ago I'm just replying out of courtesy. I don't understand why choosing a related topic, not fifteen like you did again, is so difficult for you to do. Oh you "don't understand"? But I fucking just told you: "I don't have to - not in general, and this case specifically because none of those points took any time or swea…
/r/MensRights03/07/17 03:35 AM
2

Well 2nd wave feminism (where all the sex thing started as far as I know) was around the same time as the general sexual revolution - mixed up on the precise timeline, but lots of things got destigmatized that priorly used to be frowned upon in conservative communities. I don't see any real reason why promiscuous women should be more stigmatized than promiscuous men, although the reasonings used for that are well known - as long as STDs are still a serious issue, it should all be probably stigma…
/r/MensRights02/07/17 01:18 PM
1

Well I wasn't talking about this sub (where I saw little "venting") as much as, let's say, AVFM and its official policy of not censoring the frustrations, or meeting someone like Elliot Roger "with understanding" and without ridicule etc. In that case, it's really best not just to keep it on some "sister sub", but have it be a different movement altogether - having a clean face and a shady underbelly isn't very practical for an underdog fringe group that has the mainstream trying to smear it at …
/r/MensRights02/07/17 12:57 PM
1

Really seems like you only read the title, got mad, and started arguing based solely on that. No, I replied to specific points made in the article - and if you're read any of my posts you'd know that :D The reason why females mature faster than men is not some particular triumph for them, despite Nothing I said had anything to do with it being a "triumph" or not - you're completely disconnected. Really seems like you only read the title, got mad, and started arguing based solely on that. No, it …
/r/MensRights02/07/17 12:46 PM
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Promiscuity is sex+, not "empowerment" by default - though sometimes it does get called empowerment. Also note that while this may be the "feminist" narrative that's taken hold, feminism doesn't have a cultural monopoly in this department - people who subscribe to other attitudes still consider guys who get lots of women to be studs of a high status, i.e. empowered. That mindset isn't a feminist invention, and hasn't gone anywhere so far.
/r/MensRights02/07/17 12:38 AM
3

Well, they should be prohibited from voting shortly after giving birth eh
/r/MensRights02/07/17 12:24 AM
1

Seriously, did you even read this? You still didn't read my posts, as showcased clearly by all you just said. and even switched course on your marriage argument I didn't "switch course", I remembered that the MRA arguments may have been about marriage and not divorce and hence I'm not sure anymore. That has nothing in common with what "switching course" means. Did you miss the part where it talks about how in nature, there is no female species or organism that gives birth before they are mentall…
/r/MensRights01/07/17 10:06 PM
1

I never made any conclusion....lol. I merely said it was an interesting read, that had some truth to it. Oh... "some" truth to it. Then why did you ask me which parts were horse, when you already knew some were since it wasn't "all" truth, just "some" lmao It's a very ideological, oblivious essay that makes laughably extreme claims and seemingly has no awareness of having to come off as at least somewhat credible. Yeah, sure, maybe there is "some truth" to it - maybe a bigger percentage of women…
/r/MensRights01/07/17 07:02 PM
1

Let's try this again. You made a claim. Now, I am asking you to justify said claim with an objective source, because I can't find anything remotely close to what you are saying to be true. Instead of providing a source. You gave me an anecdote. Yet, have the audacity to say my argument is not valid. All I need to do is ask an MRA? Lol... Uhm, that isn't how statistics work, bud. Like I said, my argument isn't thought out, but yours clearly is because some MRA on the internet said so...s/ Riiiiii…
/r/MensRights01/07/17 06:14 PM
1

gish gallop Drop the jargon lmao - the huge lapses in thought and awareness committed both by you and that writer aren't undone by divorce rates in either case. And if you think divorce rates are a constant, go duke it out with the MRAs and MGTOWs who think men have been filing for more and more divorce lately / laugh at feminists finally noticing and wondering why that is.
/r/MensRights01/07/17 03:16 PM
1

There are statistics backing what is said though... Take divorce. Women initiate over 80% of them. Divorce rates shift back and forth with time - as last thing I've heard from the MRM side is that more and more men get divorced due to bad laws or something. So it only amounts to 20%? How mature were they when not thinking things through ahead of time, and why do they require advice from MR groups how to behave and what to avoid? Unless we're only talking about the younger than 28 of course. Wome…
/r/MensRights01/07/17 01:24 PM
1

Especially if Sargon called this before it happened, he clearly isn't the kind of "victim" that requires an "apology" to live on, so need to feel sympathy or umbrage for his sake - this was a game move, which might result in the worsening of her reputation or that of the kind of institutions that apologize to the attacker. If that happens, nice foot shoot I guess - if not, she must've known her society really well to know she can get away with this with her reputation stronger than ever before. …
/r/MensRights01/07/17 03:55 AM
1

The (rather unambiguously phrased, if I do say so myself) point was "Male Rights" is a name that can be misunderstood upon hearing it - no one has to intervene and misrepresent it in order for that to happen, and the fact that some reactionaries used that term as well made misrepresentation especially unnecessary, and hence especially easy. "Fairness" or "Justice", regardless of whether they'd have the same ring to them or could be disqualified for other reasons, would be much, much less likely …
/r/MensRights01/07/17 01:06 AM
1

Most the linked sources are to the same blog, a site called "angry harry" (no potential for ideological bias there), quoting Schopenhauer (a guy who lived in a society with much more defined and traditional gender roles) and citing personal experiences with his immature mom and the "vast majority of women he's met". Do you think men who aren't gender role tradcons would describe their personal experiences with the "vast majority of women they've met" in similar ways? So women don't love men, or …
/r/MensRights30/06/17 10:43 PM
0

Several.
/r/MensRights30/06/17 08:31 PM
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Yeah that sounds like a crock of horse shite.
/r/MensRights30/06/17 07:50 PM
0

Or themselves - certainly when there's no women around, and not all men are (especially full time) chivalrous either.
/r/MensRights30/06/17 07:38 PM
1

Apparently only a tiny minority has been "fucked by the courts" or whatnot, most of the time it's probably throwing other faceless men under the bus that they've never met. Yes, self-sacrificial chivalry is a powerful force in many men's psyche, but by and large if they get some kinda advantage in life through a loophole or leniency, they won't be the valiant heroes to reject it :D
/r/MensRights30/06/17 07:26 PM
1

They wouldn't be dismissing or questioning the "MRA label" in the first place if it were a different name, certainly nowhere to the extent they do, or especially did a few years ago. Pretty good response, but not everyone who gets a first impression gets to interact with a calm representative, and then there's the initial bias formed after hearing it.
/r/MensRights30/06/17 07:16 PM
1

A woman who takes a job destroys three families: Worth it, if the money's good though The family she should be starting instead of a career, the family of the man who should have gotten her job Since it's impossible to have a family while having a career, that man would've lost his family if he'd gotten her job - so she saved his family, not destroyed it lmao and the family of the co-worker she fucks in the janitor's closet during lunch. That's only if he gets caught by his family, and who said …
/r/MensRights30/06/17 01:46 PM
2

Years of adulthood made me realize that women are almost always, without fail, lazier and more entitled than their male counterparts. If they are almost always, without fail, lazier and less competent, then it must by a rather narrow margin - otherwise this blind experiment here would've shown like only 2% of de-identified women being hired based on merit lmao but deep down, you know it's true. you know it. If you based this comment on "deep down", why did you post it as a response to a concrete…
/r/MensRights30/06/17 01:19 PM
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And men don't?
/r/MensRights30/06/17 01:07 PM
12

"Overall, the results indicate the need for caution when moving towards 'blind' recruitment processes in the Australian Public Service, as de-identification may frustrate efforts aimed at promoting diversity," he wrote. lmao
/r/MensRights30/06/17 12:55 PM
1

Having men (in certain conditions) contribute to the costs of abortion/birth would adress the issue of: Women will argue that they are putting their body through 9 months of hell. How can you counter that argument? not paying child support for years to come. It would be a lot fairer too - a temporary payment and then that's it. Men ought to have legal options to opt out of the payment, but they can make the process a bit multi-staged and discouraging if they want - abortion etc. isn't fun either…
/r/MensRights30/06/17 12:39 PM
3

Yeah, when you had to go to the army and to war in order to vote who governs you, they knew what they were doing and you'd feel great I'm sure.
/r/MensRights30/06/17 12:29 PM
1

The US Airforce should learn to spell.
/r/MensRights29/06/17 09:01 PM
2

"No, hell no, I don't," he said over the phone, "Not at all." Wow, dude's a bigger asshole then Walter Sobchak.
/r/MensRights29/06/17 08:51 PM
4

mgtow And the "we just limit our interactions with women to a given degree to avoid the following risks" crowd should distance itself from the raving lunatics - preferably by either labelling themselves differently, or giving those other ones a pejorative label.
/r/MensRights29/06/17 08:36 PM
1

Nah, it's a funny word. I use it all the time.
/r/MensRights29/06/17 08:23 PM
1

Ban concern trolling posts Fuck off Bern Chapin, you cunt. Lmao.
/r/MensRights29/06/17 08:12 PM
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A cuck with 10cm balls.
/r/MensRights29/06/17 08:02 PM
3

RADICAL THOUGHT: drop the "Rights" part of the title. The word has several connotations depending on their context: "human rights" has firmly established itself as a benign, moral concept; no one ever hears that phrase and wonders if it might be referring to Marquis de Sade's ideal vision of Republicanism. However, someone hears "men's rights" and as far as they're concerned, it could either mean that, or it could be referring to something like "a man's rights over the woman" - and since this wh…
/r/MensRights29/06/17 07:18 PM
1

It isn't strange though, seems to make sense.
/r/MensRights29/06/17 06:54 PM
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Sexual "assualt", written by "Goodfellow" - who put up that poster?
/r/MensRights29/06/17 06:27 PM
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What about murderers? Do you not believe in redemption? Murderers are worse and don't deserve "redemption" - so that's a weird argument.
/r/MensRights29/06/17 06:04 PM
1

As he sees it now, she took advantage of a lonely kid going through a rough patch at home. State law says a child younger than 15 cannot consent with an adult under any circumstance, making Olivas a rape victim. In that state's understanding - he wouldn't have been a rape victim in some Euro countries, whereas if he had been taken by force he would've been one regardless of location. But that's all just language, so who cares. Olivas didn't press charges and says he didn't realize at the time th…
/r/MensRights29/06/17 05:48 PM
1

Only when they actually out a stop to that will I believe this is about protection and not punishment. Well, great difference between retards among themselves, and a non-retard knowingly doing something to a retard - in the latter case, protection of the "victim" + punishment of the "perpetrator" are both the purpose, as with most crimes. Whether the punishment is then actually justified or not is another question (e.g., as said elsewhere, dependong on whether he was really a "retard" or just ha…
/r/MensRights28/06/17 06:49 PM
1

Well they've got drafts in Israel from what I know, and all it takes for "treated more like men" is more people like those on this thread who're okay with it :D Attitudes can shift, and there are lots of parts in the world where women are treated/punished incomparably worse than men in the 1st world. Myself, not particularly interested in pushing in that kind of direction though - and generally I wouldn't play around with bounceback plans, very risky business.
/r/MensRights28/06/17 12:42 AM
1

There's no bounce back, because women will never be treated like men are currently. Well, a bit worse than now, and then the bounce back? That's what I meant at any rate, can't say it's something I myself agree with or support though. Probably mainly for that same reason you just named.
/r/MensRights27/06/17 09:33 PM
1

And do you ACCEPT the resignation of these employees??!
/r/MensRights27/06/17 10:05 AM
0

Well, he's the longterm revenge harasser of the original shortterm harasser.
/r/MensRights27/06/17 08:36 AM
1

Are laws supposed to be determined by cultural notions though? Is the punishment for the false accusation and the stresses it caused the accused (and the state) while they lasted - or also for the dumb bullshit flung at him for years to come by dumb retards in the public? Because if they still give him shite despite the accuser HAVING BEEN PUT IN PRISON FOR LYING, they're retarded. Maybe instead of the laws adapting to the dumb culture, the dumb culture would simply go away with more prosecution…
/r/MensRights27/06/17 08:16 AM
2

I usually push for less bullshit than more bullshit when it comes to equality. Pretty much, yes - temporarily accepting inequality isn't by necessity always worse than increasing some particular bullshit to achieve equality.
/r/MensRights27/06/17 05:53 AM
1

I'm not MR (or have any other affiliations) myself and don't create subreddits, but this whole movement has lots of streaks and different attitudes so I'm sure lots of other subs already exist, in addition to those linked around here.
/r/MensRights27/06/17 05:34 AM
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You do not deserve these downvotes sir. Eh, I went from 800 karma to 700 karma, don't really care one bit tbh
/r/MensRights27/06/17 05:22 AM
1

Whatever, this thread's boring now.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 11:01 PM
1

I've no idea why you're talking about "pedophilia pedophiles" when this thread is about a 16 year old student (2 years above legal in my country, at that) who came into his teacher's mouth.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 10:26 PM
1

Might be onto something.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 09:58 PM
1

If emotional immaturity can be determined individually, that should be an important criterion - particularly the automatic tendency to comply with (trusted) authority.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 09:24 PM
1

Yeah it's pretty amusing actually, the gradual realization that this "general empowerment advice" article only really seems to make sense when applied to the rather narrow field of couples where both partners are into wild uninhibited cheating, modest reserved sex at home, routinely taking angry revenge on each other and still desire nothing more than a long, stable happy relationship. For people with that very specific set of interests, I... guess that article might be good advice? For everyone…
/r/MensRights26/06/17 09:08 PM
1

Been discussed here already: https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/6jehk8/female_teacher_rapes_sodomizes_boy_nypost/djf1pgh/
/r/MensRights26/06/17 08:56 PM
1

You have to draw the line somewhere, and 18 is an appropriate age. Well, if this power disbalance is just a huge issue, it can be prohibited across all ages.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 08:35 PM
2

Society is not willing to treat men better, but they also aren't willing to treat women like men are currently treated. Forcing equality will require society to treat men better. Ah - what I've been suspecting, so if you want to push for harsher punishments against naughty women, so there's a backlash to that and then it all bounces back? Well, nice cynical-pragmatic outline you've got there - might work; might also backfire, with all those sexual conservatives (hot to punish sinful women and di…
/r/MensRights26/06/17 08:20 PM
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they reject any responsabuility, General Kala impersonation lol? Anyway, hot post and makes lots of points etc., including pointing out the distinction between "sexually uninhibited" and "cheating" - but another important distinction has to be made, namely that cheating isn't always done to compensate for something you don't get - it can be a desire or drive in itself, for its own sake. And in that case, following and cheating IS being sexually uninhibited - and if a man cheats for that reason, …
/r/MensRights26/06/17 08:06 PM
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And for most self respecting men, you would be correct. The guys that can forgive a woman for cheating on him have very little self respect and don't value themselves highly enough. Or they just don't give a flying fuck :D
/r/MensRights26/06/17 07:53 PM
1

You're sitting in a huge glass house there buddy, you know that :D
/r/MensRights26/06/17 07:43 PM
1

now, do you want our two societies to fight each other to see who's law gets to stand? Well, only like a 3rd of your states has 18, the others 17 and most 16. Plus, I couldn't "vote" for your government even I tried, and international discourse happens all the time - Americans try to persuade Euros of stuff, Italians argue with the French etc., you're really out of touch if this bothers you. Plus, I wasn't even tried to persuade any American to change any laws, just reminding some bubble residen…
/r/MensRights26/06/17 07:27 PM
–

Translation: You demand equal treatment of the genders? I'm a bit cynical about this - "inequality" is ultimately bad, but maybe sometimes unequal treatment showcases the cognitive dissonances of the population, and it's best to let/make people become aware of it and maybe try to figure something out, before rushing to arrest and convict more people. People (not all, LOL) can be sympathetic towards female "predators" and also their "lucky victims" - while externalizing male ones as scary predato…
/r/MensRights26/06/17 07:14 PM
1

ah, lol, okay - didn't know about that lmao
/r/MensRights26/06/17 07:00 PM
1

the point was ultimately that since the boy is young, his blood is up, and she's a hot older woman, that there are very few scenarios where she comes on to him where he would actually be able to refuse her. if you can't actually refuse her advances, it's not truly consent. Well no, that's retarded - extreme horn doesn't count as "inability to consent" LOL, it's mainly stuff like insufficient knowledge, and being manipulated at one's own expense by a calculating mastermind. So if a minor doesn't …
/r/MensRights26/06/17 06:49 PM
1

It doesn't matter if you morally support the laws. It matters if the discussion is about the moral support, though, which is the case here. Great argument piece. It was mockery, not an argument "piece". I think most people weave their sense of morality into legalities, at least a little bit. But she did it anyway. And if the genders were flipped, the male teacher would be fucked. None of this constitutes an argument for anything, and you did attempt it.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 06:38 PM
1

In Britain it's been illegal since 2001 for a teacher to have a sexual relationship with a student under 18. I've no idea about "teachers", but if it's alright if the student is 18 this power disbalance can't be all that serious to begin with - or it would still be prohibited at 18.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 06:20 PM
1

Who the fuck cares about Islam? nobody gives a fuck. Poor choice of words...
/r/MensRights26/06/17 05:44 PM
2

Is there a direction to change the system though? At the moment, judges and laws seem to be a bit biased towards protecting women. Well, you either go less lenient on women or more lenient on men. That'd be the "equality" thing - different laws in different countries and states aren't that much of a problem, as some diversity helps, and sometimes people can choose where to live. because people mature at different rates and I'd rather have people wait a couple of years before being able to give c…
/r/MensRights26/06/17 05:23 PM
1

then you're an idiot because morals are relative. if they weren't, you could prove it. Just now you accused me of claiming morals were relative, and now you're back to claiming they're relative yourself? That's where you started if you recall - get your fucking thoughts in order.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 05:12 PM
1

An issue sure, but a minor one compared to actually them wielding it.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 04:47 PM
1

oh so you don't think morals are relative? I told you they weren't the first time around, so quit feigning surprise and learn to read lmao ou guys are clearly objectively wrong, it is a heinous crime to fuck anyone below the age of 18 Things are "wrong" and "a heinous crime" if they harm people (+against their will, but that's subject of various moral debates) - not if some random number is crossed. and the fact that your laws don't reflect that means your society is fundamentally dog shit. More…
/r/MensRights26/06/17 04:22 PM
–

I wasn't the one who said torture in a basement was morally relative - you said that, and I reprimanded you. Remember? So quite projecting lmao
/r/MensRights26/06/17 03:52 PM
1

acted like a smarmy cunt, hiding half of the critical information you needed to express in every post so you could give off an air of Ivory Tower style aloofness. all of your bleating falls on deaf ears anyway. you chose poor tactics in an unfriendly environment. I saw some dumb stupidity and started mocking it, could've done worse - if I do say so myself.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 03:39 PM
1

This subreddit is mainly filled with people that don't believe that men and women are naturally different. So good luck getting your point across. My point is consistent with that premise though?
/r/MensRights26/06/17 03:25 PM
–

Jesus bro. it's not like we're talking about weed over here, we're talking about statutory rape. Which... stops being statutory rape or illegal altogether if you cross a border to a different state.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 03:14 PM
–

I'm not supposed to anything - it's a question of expression.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 03:04 PM
–

All comes down to degrees, and whether any power was actually abused, used as leverage etc.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 02:44 PM
1

Ah, yes, 1 year earlier or something, like early 2016? So if another hot teacher did it now, it'd be morally permissible - a year earlier, as long as in the US, bad.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 02:32 PM
1

so at what age should adults not be allowed to fuck children, in your opinion? At 13, because that's below any age of consent in Europe. Or wasn't it 13 in a few countries like 2 years ago or something? In that case, it was 12, but now it's morally 13. or can we slippery slope this all the way down to toddlers using the exact same language you've been spilling out here? The slippery slope goes all the way to the glint in the milkman's eye and then the cum that produced said milkman - but none of…
/r/MensRights26/06/17 02:10 PM
1

There are only 2 options, but I'm not sure which one.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 01:58 PM
1

oh so you're just a fuckin anarchist? FFffffuckin' ayyyyynarchy well I'm only legally technically not allowed to torture you in my basement so maybe we can figure something out with that. Seems like you completely lack any ability to distinguish between law and ethics, so it's not your place to call anyone an anarchist is it?` People like you can function just fine as long as all the laws and regulations around you are alright, but the moment things in the country are going south you should be q…
/r/MensRights26/06/17 01:41 PM
1

Well then don't lmao
/r/MensRights26/06/17 01:28 PM
1

Because a teacher has power over a student. They're not on equal footing. Its the same reason that if a boss is fucking around with his employees it's called sexual misconduct. Well sometimes bosses have flings with their employees and no one's morally raging about it do they - I guess it depends what degree of power the teacher has, and aside from that it's also essential whether they ever abused it or not. If not it's like, there was a "potential" to abuse power.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 01:18 PM
1

Well I wouldn't be okay with it after I landed on US soil - depends on which state though.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 12:21 PM
1

Legality and morality aren't equals to me. But, yeah, I guess I automatically ostracize gross differentiations, like your 22 year difference example. But, "ability to consent", morally speaking, is a sliding scale. I don't think 18yos should be signing up for military foreign adventurism, nor consent to a sexual relationship with someone, for example, who is double their age. But, I wouldn't use guns to enforce laws against those things. Well, that makes sense. Not a huge authority. Just a lot o…
/r/MensRights26/06/17 11:27 AM
–

law enforcement Well that's quite a bit of power there, especially when on duty (off-duty the more corrupt the cop system is, which in America, yeah). As for teacher, yeah, "guide", sure, exploitation or manipulation is more possible, but there by necessity or even default - actual power or the abuser thereof, even less so if at all. If manipulation can be shown, that's at least a start to a valid prosecution - exploitation, demonstrating the person's lacking judgement skills etc.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 11:14 AM
1

Not special needs, though.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 10:54 AM
1

I don't think I'm obsessed with any fantasy, it's obviously a nice one among many.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 10:38 AM
1

Knowing everyday that all those young sausages are everywhere and off limits must be so very hard. Could've moved to Washington or something and it would've stopped being off limits, shrug - or, hey, 18 is barely older, could've settled for that even without moving.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 10:28 AM
2

He must've found it hot.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 10:18 AM
1

Sick, sick people. Very sad.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 10:05 AM
1

Minors, being underdeveloped persons, cannot give sexual consent. They are incapable of processing it fully. Said who? You? We can argue about what the age should be, but that's a separate conversation. If "we can argue", then that means the question whose brains are developed sufficiently or not isn't anywhere near cut and dry and you have no business preaching in that tone of voice. Because if 16 is "arguable", that then means it's arguable whether he got raped - if she had drugged him or forc…
/r/MensRights26/06/17 09:53 AM
2

It's a crime of equal severity to any other rape, though. No it's not - not if it's still a bad thing, and especially if it's actually an alright thing that's unjustifiedly criminalized in the first place: a bad thing is definitely more severe than a good thing.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 09:41 AM
-1

and is necessary to accurately convey the true meaning of the situation. Necessary, but not sufficient.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 09:31 AM
–

since I haven't experienced anything like this first hand, thank jeebus. Well firsthand experience isn't required as a motivation, but fine whatever I was being cynical - you can bet though lots of MRs/antifems/etc. do have such attitudes, fully or partially. I just want the system to be fair and treat equal crimes with equal sentences and for society not to draw such a vague line between it when a man contra. woman commit a crime. Yes, the question is though in which direction you're gonna chan…
/r/MensRights26/06/17 09:20 AM
–

Minors cannot consent, ever. If "consent" means "consent that the busybodies in power acknowledge as consent", then yes, you're correct - another true statement is that criminals cannot be legal, ever.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 09:09 AM
1

He's a minor and she's an adult, is that not enough information to know whether it's statutory rape? Well, sex with a minor is statutory rape per definition, so yes, it is enough information.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 08:56 AM
2

But what if it was a juice storm instead? You can't tell from that evil smirk, it could be either way.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 08:46 AM
–

She's 11 years older than he is, so I think society/law should come down pretty hard on her. Except in those parts of the world where he can consent, that is? He's 18 and she's 40 - still a 22 year difference, society/law should come down pretty hard on her! Were she a 22yo teacher? Well...I think I'd leave it up to the kid's parents (if they're stable) And if they don't have stupid morals. It really freaked me out when a 18yo high school senior girl, attractive though she was, showed up at my p…
/r/MensRights26/06/17 08:31 AM
1

When I hear "rape", I consider all of those things I previously listed. A bad driver who accidentally drove up the wrong garage, for personal use?
/r/MensRights26/06/17 08:21 AM
–

Yeah but this is feminists greatest fear apparently. I've brought this up a few times in arguments and it triggers the hell out of them. Generally they screech something like "rape is rape, stop trying to whitewash it!" You know who else "screeches" that? Most MRA people on this thread :D
/r/MensRights26/06/17 08:11 AM
–

When it's said she "raped" him, did she: Have sex with his under-aged "consent"? (horrible, but not quite violent rape) It can be horrible every once in a while, and sometimes it's bad - but at other times it's alright, or even very good. Definitely legal in half the US, all that aside. "Force" sex with him via threats from her place of academic power? How serious is academic power though? I'm not sure, I think it's pretty small - definitely a dick move, blackmail maybe, but not rape level coerc…
/r/MensRights26/06/17 08:00 AM
0

No one on this thread excused or said anything positive about pedophilia - so nothing was "disengiously" taken out of context.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 07:49 AM
–

Good, correct comment - though suspicious username :o
/r/MensRights26/06/17 07:38 AM
2

None of the two articles mention him being special needs - if he is, and especially if it's mentally (unless it's just something like having trouble learning maths or something, that has no impact on fucking), then this most probably does count as statutory rape and every comment I've posted on this thread doesn't apply to this case :D
/r/MensRights26/06/17 07:24 AM
–

Would you say that if it was a married male teacher having oral sex with a female student? If it was a male (married!) teacher having oral sex with a female student, I would jump to conclusions and lock up without a trial - just the way you like it.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 07:13 AM
1

Well I don't know about Hilary's, but this is definitely the hot version of that.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 07:02 AM
1

You are legitimately trying to justify stautory rape. It's already justified and legal in my country, and more than half of US states - not "stautory" rape that is, but it isn't called that :D A 16 year old is a kid. That's just semantics - 16 is legal in more than half your country. She's a grown adult, and married. What she's also being punished for adultery now, or why did you bring that up? If her husband is a healthy 30 year old stud and not some balding fatso, I don't think he'd be particu…
/r/MensRights26/06/17 06:47 AM
-12

There's no bigotry or "man hatred" anywhere in these tweets - a bit of snark, and not of the cool type I have to say, oh and also DAE Trump is bad? Guess they're being bitchy about some annual celebration day or something?
/r/MensRights26/06/17 06:35 AM
–

This sub is this stupid.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 06:24 AM
–

It wasn't an edit, it was a "what's with all these downvotes you poofs" post. Some people here seem to be special needs, and you're not the brightest either.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 06:12 AM
–

You're flabbergasted at the notion that there are smarter moves than turning partial vote rights into tyranny? Seriously dude yourself.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 06:02 AM
0

If you are drunk you can't consent. Isn't that what women believe? So why not equality and have it so if the man is drunk he can't consent either ? Sure, why not extend 50% retardation to 100% retardation? At least that would be consistent - half-retarded is inconsistent, so that's worse and it would be an improvement.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 05:52 AM
–

I'm not a sick fuck where I live, but I would become a sick fuck if I flew over to an 18-state (not a 16-state) for a vacation - the only question remains, would I become a sick fuck once the plane passed the borders, or once I left the airport? Or maybe it would've been a gradual transtion into sick fuck, and then back into non-sick non-fuck after the vacation's over, while flying over the ocean. Also - if I stop questioning her conviction while I'm over, does it stop counting? When precisely s…
/r/MensRights26/06/17 05:42 AM
–

I'm legally-technically a dumb fuck, and she's legally (technically) a horrible sick pervert - powerful insults.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 05:29 AM
–

Is that the test? At what age, in your opinion, is it NOT ok to manipulate someone into a agreeing to a "consensual" relationship. At what age IS it okay to manipulate? And why are you talking about manipulation when the article didn't?
/r/MensRights26/06/17 05:18 AM
0

I would be one if I were to fly over for a vacation in America - and then once I'd fly back home I'd stop being twisted (but still an individual) again. Well, or I could fly to like Florida and become twisted, and then I'd go check out Washington and I'd be alright again - then twisted again in Florida and then untwisted after the vacation is over; until the next time, of course.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 05:08 AM
–

For you.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 04:58 AM
-1

if you lived in the US or in the Midwest preferably Minneapolis you'd be singing a different tune...CUNT. Plenty of people even in US states with an age of consent of 18 or 17, and not 16 (which is the majority of US states, and wouldn't have bothered this woman), are singing the same precise tune - probably because questioning specific aoc laws, as opposed to breaking them, is actual legal and people engage in discourse over topics. Cunt. And omg "fucking motherfucking cocksucking manners" haha…
/r/MensRights26/06/17 04:48 AM
–

This sub is retarded.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 04:38 AM
0

Now you're sounding crazy lmao
/r/MensRights26/06/17 04:26 AM
–

I am a little biased towards these things. Let's put it likes this, strictly law wise, if the genders were reversed, the case would be much different; So you wanna get back at women after getting butthurt when all those men were imprisoned for similar flings, cheered on by feminists - is that it?
/r/MensRights26/06/17 04:14 AM
2

I thought sex with a child (were the assumption is that a child may not be mature enough to be able to deal with such a situation) was a cut and dry wrong thing to do. "Cut and dry wrong", but "the assumption"? Anyway, see how many 16 year old teenagers you get to call "child" before getting punched in the face, and afterwards go have a look at the list of US states with an aoc of 16 and Euro countries with an oac of 14 to confirm how "cut and dry" this woman's villainy is. You clueless plonker.…
/r/MensRights26/06/17 04:02 AM
1

Lucky for you... Not lucky for me, but lucky for all those who want to bang their hot teachers, that means cunts like you won't be interfering lmao I could at least teach you some fucking manners. You mean fucking motherfucking cocksucking manners? Fucking euro trash...you're in the wrong No you're wrong lmao and in the minority on this one Europe isn't much of a "minority", and if it weren't for all the bible thumper influence you'd probably relax and quit prosecuting teenage girls for posting …
/r/MensRights26/06/17 03:43 AM
–

That's the point of this post and sub, you fucking dickknob. ...That's what I just said. A hot male teacher fucking a 16 year old girl is still rape in a lot of place. Because she's legally a child. Even if they consent. You're a piece of dick. I'm a piece of dick for not morally supporting the laws in your stupid country? Why should I back yours over those in other "lots of place", especially if I happen to be in one of those "place"? Again - you and your powerful condemning insults, "you're a …
/r/MensRights26/06/17 03:29 AM
–

but I wanna hurt you so fucking bad for justifying something as wrong as this. Well my euro government not only justifies, but actively allows something as wrong as this - wanna come "hurt" my government too while you're at it? Fuck off mate, you dumb cunt.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 03:08 AM
–

Why troll? I'm completely alright with a 27 old teacher banging a 16 year old studentess (especially if lesbian), as long as it's done in my country or others like it - if it's done in a US state with an age of consent of 18, then it's evil.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 02:47 AM
–

So you'd be fine with a 30 year old guy having sex with a 9 year old guy as long as she says it's okay? What "she"? You said 30 year old guy with a 9 year old guy.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 02:37 AM
–

So you're okay with a 27 year old male teacher having sex with a 16 year old female student as long as the student says it's okay? Are you really in here arguing in favor of rape, or just trolling? If she "says it's okay" then it isn't rape, you moron - unless it's in a US state with an age of consent above 16, then of course it's totally rape. How can I be in favor of it?? This traumatic experience wrongly described as "okay" by the victim, is gonna affect her her entire life, because she did i…
/r/MensRights26/06/17 02:23 AM
3

Sometimes I was tired, and I didn't, true.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 02:10 AM
1

In this case it's a minor, it's not a few beers, it's a grown woman raping a child. It's the "age of consent equivalent" of a few beers - a 16 year old boy (already 2 years above legal in many euro countries), an attractive woman, no information about manipulation or coercion to boot. it's a grown woman Grown and voluptuous, that's what he liked about her. raping a child. I doubt he'd like you calling him a child, though - hopefully he's not a jock stud, or that might end up being very painful..…
/r/MensRights26/06/17 01:55 AM
0

And those words exist to denote a specific meaning. Statutory meaning "having sex with anyone below the local age of majority is rape." Yes, and you couldn't make up a better illustration of "words are meaningless" if you wrote highly acclaimed satire. Note the "local" bit in particular - so you cross from one state into another, and rape suddenly becomes happy picturebook sex, just by crossing a border. Yeah. "Rape" is such a powerful word, isn't it. even teenagers, are stupid. Not stupid where…
/r/MensRights26/06/17 01:43 AM
–

Unless the law requires you to go on r/MensRights (a sub dedicated to challenging certain laws in your country) and post nasty, insulting, condemning remarks directed at her, you shouldn't be blaming "the law" for your shite behavior here. If you don't like the law run for congress and try to explain to people why you want to fuck middle schoolers. Age of consent in my country is 14, and "middle schoolers" are older than 14 - since you probably live in an 18-state, you should go to congress if y…
/r/MensRights26/06/17 01:31 AM
4

Well she'd still be hot even if she wasn't a teacher.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 01:21 AM
0

The fact that she would have an authoritative relationship due to age AS WELL AS being a teacher is what makes her a rapist. Authoritative relationship is already hot, teacher only makes it hotter. Unless she coerced him by threatening bad grades or writing a nasty letter to his parents (as that's pretty much the extent of the "power" teachers have over their students, especially at that age), I don't see the issue? Maybe they did roleplay with her as an authority, or maybe it was the other way …
/r/MensRights26/06/17 01:10 AM
–

I only like older women (as long as still hot), and sometimes those exact my age - not one year below. It'd actually be several years below my age until you'd reach the age of consent in your country, let alone in mine - but still, 1 year younger and I'm already not attracted. A bit weird, most of my peers at uni aren't like that and actually like younger women along with older ones, but what can you do eh?
/r/MensRights26/06/17 12:57 AM
–

How do we know the 17 year old girl didn't want to have sex with an 18 year old man? She could have seduced him Dude's 16 years old. 16 year old boys want to have sex all the time, incl. with hot Milfs and teachers; if he was a 5 year old embryo, he wouldn't, but that's why you don't compare horny high schoolers to 5 year old embryos - you plonker
/r/MensRights26/06/17 12:46 AM
1

it's not this subs fault, but surely you know that, troll Yes, but it is this sub's fault for taking the side of this "law", personally judging and condemning this woman in addition to what said Law's already done to her (in accordance with itself - the Law), and whining about the news outlet not playing along with the court's stupid jargon. Additionally hilarious because this sub is already all about protesting certain laws and societal notions, and because the satisfaction and venom directed a…
/r/MensRights26/06/17 12:36 AM
–

Some words exist, yes.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 12:19 AM
–

Statutory rape is still rape Adverb word is still word. it's illegal for a fucking reason. A "fucking" reason? We've decided as a society that minors aren't equipped to handle sexual decisions with adult partners. That 16 year old boy should've flown over to Europe, then he would've become more than equipped to handle sexual decisions with the hot adult partner in the picture - that's because Europe as a society has decided he is.
/r/MensRights26/06/17 12:09 AM
–

Edit: this is due to cultural differences of each locale. Your geographical peers decide your cultural traditions and if you skew from them in a sexual manner you are a pervert. You are also a troll. Hi there troll!😙 This horrible woman is a PERVERT ACCORDING TO THE CULTURAL NOTIONS OF HER LOCALE - what a powerful, condemning insult isn't it? Somehow I doubt the OP comments in this thread were designed to be this effete lol
/r/MensRights25/06/17 11:50 PM
1

With that logic women shouldn't have gained the vote because getting rid of the inequality isn't important. No, with that logic women gaining the vote, or men losing the vote (meaning no one could vote), would've been equivalent outcomes - tyranny or democracy, doesn't matter as long as the sexes are equal lmao You people are so fucking dumb. Doesn't mean you have to agree with the voting system (or in this case the punishment) Someone else on this thread said that if you're a man and have sex w…
/r/MensRights25/06/17 11:38 PM
–

you are automatically a pervert for having sex with someone under the age of consent for your locale So being a pervert is locale dependent eh? This sub is fucking dumb.
/r/MensRights25/06/17 11:27 PM
–

I made no claims, because the article made no claims and I haven't read any other sources about this case. You, on the other hand, do make claims without having a clue - might be slightly eager and biased, eh?
/r/MensRights25/06/17 11:17 PM
–

Children cannot consent, that's the be all end all for this argument. It's THE LAW it's the point of this post. No, the point of the post is complaining that the article didn't call it rape - and the point of some of the comments below is insisting that this woman is evil (when they've got no clue) and, even worse, isn't hot. This guy is a teenager, not a child - and just because THE LAW says teenagers can't consent, has no bearing on whether they can. Half my class was consenting to fucking whe…
/r/MensRights25/06/17 11:05 PM
-1

It is not seen?
/r/MensRights25/06/17 10:55 PM
–

Rape of the boy so yes. I said slightly drunk, not hammered into oblivion - if you think being slightly drunk means you can't consent, I see a long and bright future for whatever streak of the MR movement your sub represents LOL
/r/MensRights25/06/17 10:41 PM
0

I didn't make claims either way, I'm reminding you that YOU'VE got no idea, and if you're just jumping to conclusions you're an ideologue just like the feminists that you seem to like so much.
/r/MensRights25/06/17 10:26 PM
–

"Concept, genius"? "And it is not"? I've no idea what you're talking about, it's incoherent gibberish.
/r/MensRights25/06/17 10:24 PM
–

A teenage boy isn't a "kiddy" (nor do teenagers appreciate being called kiddies, and some of them could gang up on you and beat you up), and I've no idea what a "diddler" is. Are you saying the voluptuous woman on that picture "diddled" the young stud's erect cock until he came in her mouth? I doubt he would've come in her mouth if the word "diddle" had been used, by anyone, in any context, within hearing range or near it, before the finish line - or felt good about it afterwards if someone were…
/r/MensRights25/06/17 10:16 PM
–

You seem to think "red pill" is exclusively used, or at least primarily associated with PUAs, which means you're entirely clueless - it's used as a banner all across the manosphere / antifem community, including this very sub. I'm calling it pretentious and (because) unwarranted.
/r/MensRights25/06/17 10:03 PM
-2

Hypocritical about what mao?
/r/MensRights25/06/17 09:39 PM
–

Who said anything about PUAs?
/r/MensRights25/06/17 09:35 PM
–

A woman just got convicted for having sex with a consenting guy (for all you know), and you are shrugging it off. Even worse, calling her an evil pervert witch or whatever. What am I shrugging off lmao Also "you're"
/r/MensRights25/06/17 09:29 PM
–

So this sub rejects this pretentious title, then?
/r/MensRights25/06/17 09:12 PM
–

Voting is a right, not a law, Fucking hairsplittery - the point remains, if a part of the population is oppressed, or a stupid notion applies in one area less than elsewhere, saying that extending this oppression and stupidity to the whole population and society and removing it altogether are both equivalent ways of getting rid of this "inequality" is some stupid, A-grade OCD fucking bullshite.
/r/MensRights25/06/17 09:09 PM
–

Either that or get rid of the law. Those 2 options aren't necessarily always equivalent - for instance in a scenario where only men get to vote, or only women get to vote, you don't go and say "well either have everyone vote or NO ONE, but we can't have this sex inequality" :D ;)
/r/MensRights25/06/17 08:50 PM
–

"Something of" - as I said, your views aren't that fringe, plenty of people, in the mainstream, distrust feminists and have been doing so for decades. It's like saying liberals have suppressed / tried to suppress reports about immigrant crime is "something of" a redpill, even though like 1/3rd of Europeans and even more Americans are voting right, and these things are discussed only on national TV.
/r/MensRights25/06/17 08:49 PM
–

What does that have to do with this thread?
/r/MensRights25/06/17 08:39 PM
–

If you mindlessly support every law and court procedure that exists, you shouldn't have any problems with all those anti-men-discriminating either.
/r/MensRights25/06/17 08:36 PM
-3

Not talking about that specific movie lmao
/r/MensRights25/06/17 08:35 PM
–

If he was 25 and a bit drunk it would've been rape too, so yeah I forgot that.
/r/MensRights25/06/17 08:23 PM
–

Look - I'm not saying she't the hottest woman I've ever seen; I'm just saying, quite hot you know?
/r/MensRights25/06/17 08:13 PM
–

Lmao you people are mindlessly downvoting but even the OP (inadvertedly?) admitted that he's got no clue if this was forced or statutory - so I'm right :D
/r/MensRights25/06/17 08:01 PM
–

agreed. "rape" "sodomy" everything has lost meaning. we need proper, specific legal definitions Yeah, but you and the other posters on this thread just automatically assumed it was rape, so you could do your circlejerk, even if you've got no idea :D
/r/MensRights25/06/17 07:29 PM
–

Looks hot enough for me. shrug
/r/MensRights25/06/17 07:27 PM
–

Where in the article does it say that it wasn't consensual? And if it was, why the fuck are you calling her a sick pervert?
/r/MensRights25/06/17 07:26 PM
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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