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SDinAsia Archive

View 3 posts and 341 comments by SDinAsia on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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–

It's simple, let me lay it out for you. An attractive person has the option to date other attractive people or date ugly people. Ergo, they have more choices than an ugly person who can only date other ugly people.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/23 12:15 PM
–

"When you go out in public you will see that fat men, short men, under weight men are in relationships. The red pill.." Actually, the Red Pill doesn't say it's hard for a man to get into a relationship. Just be a provider for a woman who's looking to settle down.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/23 07:01 AM
–

There's some merit to what you are saying. But looking at the data from dating apps do show that men hit their peak later than women. This does make sense given that the things that women screen for like wealth, success, etc. take time to accumulate. Not to mention the fact that me take longer than women to emotionally mature.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/23 09:34 AM
–

Seems like you're attracting needy boys desperate for a relationship. I remember you; didn't you claim that your circle was filled with attractive confident men who knew how flirt with women "naturally" rather than being like the awkward autistic guys on this forum? Do correct me if I'm mistaken though. Also: congratulations, you just described the plight of a sizable fraction of men who have not yet swallowed the Red Pill. You're exactly right, they offer commitment to a woman in the hopes of l…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/23 09:24 AM
-1

You are correct. That logic can be used to explain why men who have the ability to sleep with many women are respected for their prowess and skill, whereas for women this is not the case. The "shaming" comes from something entirely different, that men prefer not to enter into a LTR with a promiscuous woman. It's a primal reaction, stemming from the fact that you can always tell who the mother of a child is, but not the father. It might be similar to the "ick" that a woman feels from a broke-ass …
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/23 05:38 AM
-3

Well, woman are allowed to complain about everything. It's in their nature. We men just have to be strong about it. Strong men don't complain.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/23 03:50 AM
–

Depends if you're a man or woman.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/23 01:53 PM
8

Good summary. I'm surprised you didn't mention the good ol' "just be yourself".
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/23 08:29 AM
1

Thanks for the very long comment, but you seem to be arguing against what you perceive RP to be rather than what I'm actually saying? I think we actually agree for the most part. People shouldn't be mad about others' preferences, full stop. Men shouldn't be mad about women's preferences, but this means that women shouldn't also be mad about men's preferences (e.g. for younger and thin women) too. Yes, some men do like overweight women or single moms or older women but those are the minority. The…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 05:14 PM
1

Agreed.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 02:36 PM
1

Yes, that is the Red Pill. Me and women are different, and there's no point pretending otherwise.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 04:54 AM
–

I agree mostly except that the absence of masculine energy makes women more masculine, not less in my opinion. You can see this effect at play in girls' schools.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 04:50 AM
1

I see, thanks for sharing your opinion! My opinion is that I don't see a problem with that all, as it is a competition after all. It isn't really unique to RP. Let's flip the genders here. With the increasing educational, financial and social success of women (yay!) it will be less and less likely for a woman to find a man who is better or even with her in those departments. Women are competing for a shrinking pool of high value men. Would a more attractive woman deliberately go for a less attra…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 03:58 AM
1

OK, I'll bite. Why would RP discourage this behavior? That would be like discouraging women from pursuing more attractive men. Isn't there competition between women for the top men also?
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 03:28 AM
1

Have you ever considered that the reason that such age gap relationships exist is that some women like older men? Secondly, it is a competition. Unless you have forced pairings, there would be always competition for women by men. So the observation that men like younger women, or that birth rates are deceasing, doesn't really change this competition aspect. It may make life harder for the average man, but cest la vie. Certainly there's nothing stopping these less attractive man from going for le…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 03:04 AM
1

That is possible. Still doesn't change my point that men with less options will be less likely to pump and dump.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 02:46 AM
1

There's nothing in the RP praexology that says to hate women. That seems to be a failing of the men themselves, and I don't need to defend them whatsoever.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 02:44 AM
0

I agree with you. A preference is a preference, and no one should be shamed for anything.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/06/23 10:14 AM
2

That's quite frankly absurd. An unattractive man that doesn't have much sex would absolutely cling to the possibility of getting more sex rather than pumping and dumping to spite the one woman who gave him the time of the day. Most men are not redpilled anyway.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/06/23 10:08 AM
0

This logic only works if abusing partners makes them less likely to leave. I don't think that happens in the majority of cases.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/06/23 09:35 AM
4

Right, but less attractive men will be less likely to pump and dump simply because they have fewer options, your point about honesty notwithstanding. All other things being equal, it seems like straightforward math to me.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/06/23 06:26 AM
2

Or sugar babies.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/06/23 12:05 PM
–

I agree that that's a significant part of it. Probably related to the idea of not wanting to be compared with too many past sexual partners.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/23 01:09 PM
2

Everything you said is right. However, it applies doubly so to women.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/23 12:52 PM
2

Thank you for your insight.
/r/TheRedPill04/06/23 12:38 PM
1

Thank you for your comment, I do agree.
/r/TheRedPill04/06/23 11:54 AM
1

Oh yes, I think I've used the wrong term! It should be mate guarding, not cockblocking.
/r/TheRedPill04/06/23 09:22 AM
2

Yes, I am. TRP is about understanding the inherent differences between men and women, right? I'm sure a fair few points can be explained using biology. Like, a dominant male can have access to more women, just like in the animal kingdom. Men are still competing with each other for women, again, just like in the animal kingdom. Women would rather share a powerful man than be stuck with a weak loser, just like in the animal kingdom.
/r/TheRedPill04/06/23 09:15 AM
1

Thank you for the viewpoint, I appreciate it.
/r/TheRedPill04/06/23 08:24 AM
-10

Ouch! Are you sure you're not projecting your love of cocks on me though?
/r/TheRedPill04/06/23 08:07 AM
6

No, I mean you shouldn't be a controlling ass and limit who your girl talks to. You shouldn't have to preemptively ward off all males in your territory. Obviously you protect her if she's in danger of getting raped or if she's feeling uncomfortable getting hit on. But if she voluntarily reciprocates a suitor's advances, it's bye-bye.
/r/TheRedPill04/06/23 08:02 AM
2

So does (should) an alpha cockblock his girl from other alphas?
/r/TheRedPill04/06/23 07:47 AM
2

I see. Yes, it may be difficult to ultimately disentangle nature from nurture. But at the core, could we simply boil it down to an evolutionary biological hypothesis: that the woman seeks protection and provision from a man and so a man being capable and dominant would be more attractive. I also agree that changes in modern society (e.g. women outearning men or taking up more leadership roles) may have interesting and novel consequences.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/23 05:58 AM
0

My man, I consider myself fairly educated but I have no idea of what you are talking about. Do you have a TLDR of your main idea or question?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/23 05:42 AM
–

Simple answer is that from an evolutionary biological perspective, a man wins by impregnating as many women as possible to pass on his genes. Whereas, a woman requires the provision and protection of a man when she is vulnerable pregnant or with infants. Thus, it is natural that women do and should have higher standards for their partners than men.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/23 05:37 AM
–

This is an excellent synopsis.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/06/23 08:39 AM
–

Oh boy, are you a man? If so, how old are you? Women are transactional as hell. It's in their damn genes. They need to find someone who can provide and protect them when they're vulnerable pregnant or with infants. No decent woman is going to stick with a bum. It's a cruel world out there. Unfortunately, no one's going to feel sorry for a loser male, unlike a loser female. Do with that what you will.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/06/23 07:27 AM
1

Success in RP would mean living a man's life, being masculine in today's "men and women are the same" society. This would mean embracing some conservative values and pushing back against some new-age feminist ideas. Here's one way of thinking about it which I've found helpful as it pertains to a longterm relationship: Blue pill = happy wife, happy life Red pill = happy life, happy wife
/r/PurplePillDebate02/06/23 07:18 AM
1

I'm not reading all that, because you are arguing from emotion and aren't actually responding to anything I'm actually saying. Maybe calm down a bit and we'll revisit this in a day. Here's what I mean by assuming the conclusion: You: The TRP sub is full of anger and hate towards women. Me: I looked through the first dozen posts on the sub and did not find anything resembling hate and anger towards women. You: Yeah but Red Pillers hate women, they don't need to say it. You've still to get back to…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/06/23 05:07 AM
0

To help men understand what women really want. To have better and more fulfilling relationships with women.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/06/23 04:29 AM
1

Nah, that's flipped backwards. Having sex with women is not the end goal. It's a function of becoming successful. Like, making money isn't the goal of most company founders. It's to achieve a vision. Money is a byproduct.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/06/23 04:05 AM
1

So, now you're changing the goalposts. And you're begging the question because you have assumed the conclusion. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. We could get bogged down in the minutiae of the sidebar, but I'd rather not with someone so biased. I just don't see that open anger/hate against woman and preference shaming that you initially claimed to be rampant in TRP. Find me one TRP post that says that hypergamy in women is wrong and that men should shame women about it. Th…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/06/23 03:44 AM
1

Maybe you're seeing what you want to be seeing. I skimmed through at the first 10 or so latest posts on TRP and did not see any open anger or hostility towards women or preference shaming of women. Correct me if I'm wrong though. Misogyny - eh that's arguable. Admittedly, TRP content sometimes does go hyperbolic to make a point. Like a woman ranting in a women-only forum about how "All men are trash" and "I'm going to cut off his balls" and then getting a bunch of "yas queens" in response. It's …
/r/PurplePillDebate02/06/23 01:38 AM
1

I don't know what to tell you, other than they aren't real red pillers. Grifters and bad actors have latched on to the core concepts and given TRP a bad name.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/06/23 06:40 PM
-1

"Women should admit" You chose... poorly.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/06/23 02:43 PM
2

You could very well be right. I don't follow that community.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/06/23 01:24 PM
5

Well, given that it's gone semi-mainstream now there are alot of bad actors and grifters out there who give RP a bad name. But none of what you said applies to true RP.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/06/23 12:40 PM
9

For some reason, the entire manosphere is often lumped together even though there are several quite distinct subspecies which can hold often opposing views. Red Pill and incels are basically at the opposite ends of the spectrum. Incels hate women, red pill does not hate women. Incels hate chads, red pillers aspire to become chad. Incels shame female preferences, red pill accepts female preferences. Incels blame women, red pillers blame themselves. Red pillers may experience a temporary anger pha…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/06/23 12:03 PM
1

No, the Red Pill would say that women's standards have always been high, and that they should be high. Women haven't changed, technology has.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/05/23 05:44 AM
1

It's a tautology. If a women doesn't find a man attractive, she doesn't find him attractive.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/05/23 05:17 PM
1

Much more than rich women dating broke men, that's for sure.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/05/23 11:05 AM
3

Not sure if it's necessarily causative. Birth rates are falling all over the world, including Japan which has a very patriarchal society.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/05/23 07:45 AM
1

Um...what? I'm not making a value judgement on hypergamy or not. Who's talking about hearts of gold here? You seem confused or think that I'm using the concept of hypergamy to attack women. I'm not. I'm not mad either, at all. Women should be hypergamous because their time is more precious, their bodies are more valuable for reproduction, and they are physically weaker and highly vulnerable when pregnant or with infants. Whether or not they had a choice in the past, it's still the right choice t…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/05/23 12:34 AM
3

Men and women are indeed different. So the concerns may be different in certain cases. For example, a young guy would be more worried about his girlfriend going away on a business trip alone with her 60-year old male boss than if the genders were reversed. This doesn't seem like one of these cases though, so yes, it is hypocritical IMO.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/05/23 10:51 AM
1

You don't need the Red Pill to know that men are most attracted (sexually) to young women. Even a beta simp could tell you that.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/23 05:12 PM
–

Women definitely have it on easy mode compared to men in modern society. You're right that it is a modern phenomenon, because times have changed. Still, what's the point of being jealous? There is no point. Just play the damn hand you've been dealt.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/23 05:04 PM
–

"who is goodlooking and has a really good sense of humor for sure, which I have never seen talked about in the red pill." Umm... what? The RP talks about becoming the complete package. Money, looks, game are all part of it. Where are you getting your ideas on RP from? Unfortunately alot of other crap is getting mixed up with RP these days.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/23 04:57 PM
1

Hardly. There are plenty of women to go around, and not every man will want to swallow the bitter medicine in the first place. Maybe there are some men who actually enjoy simping, good for them! And even if all men became RP, isn't that a good thing for a woman? (Let's assume for now that women do like strong dominant exciting men). They'll have more high-quality men to choose from. Fewer "nice guys", simps, incels, etc. Aren't women always complaining about there being a dearth of good men? But…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/23 07:35 AM
4

Very well said, I agree completely. Unfortunately there are a lot of bad actors who claim to be RP but actually promote anger against women or mock women in order to get clicks or sell courses which is terrible.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/05/23 08:19 AM
6

The red pill does not claim to be moral, only what works. I don't agree with the characterization of RP being tricks or schemes, however. It teaches you about what women want (which is often not what they say they want). Is it is trick to understand them better?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/05/23 08:06 AM
2

I agree with you. Kings having 1000's concubines, etc. It doesn't really negate RP though. RP says you have to be the king, to be powerful and dominant to be able to have access to more women. Contrary to what some people think, RP doesn't "blame" women for anything (the actual philosophy I mean, not randos fishing for clicks), nor do they promote anger towards women. Let me say it again: a man who's angry at women should not call himself RP, he's an incel. Yes, RP does help understand women's m…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/05/23 03:14 AM
9

It could be subconscious though.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/23 12:38 AM
–

Great. So you got the genetics, you got the work ethic, you understand women. You are winning in the game of life. So now you have a choice: are you going to be a respected leader of men or an insufferable ("I know I'm right") prick? :D
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/23 12:29 AM
1

Curious that you say that weak men fill you with disgust. I've only ever heard women say something like that. Are you bisexual? Bisexual/gay mean often have the best dress and fashion sense. Totally no shade if that's the case. Weak men sometimes fill me with a sense of pity, sometimes indifference, but never disgust. Your point about the size of the advantage is understood. Although if you've never been short, I don't think your opinion on whether women care about a specific height has much val…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/23 07:37 PM
1

An insecure man or woman does not need to bash others to make their point. Like, what was even the point of your post? If you wanted other men to improve themselves... well, let's just say you won't be winning any awards for motivational speeches. It honestly sounded like a woman going on a man-hating rant, complaining why no man is good enough for her. That's just my opinion though! Height is a huge advantage. Who cares if it's exactly 90%, 50% or whatever, that's not the point. It doesn't nega…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/23 05:19 PM
1

Fuck me, you're a dude? You totally sounded like an insecure chick in your OP lol. Height is a huge advantage man. Huge, and it's not defeatist to admit it. You may be good looking at 5'8 but you'd probably have a lot less luck with women than you do now. Enjoy the good times bro!
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/23 04:44 PM
1

Well, that's your opinion and that is completely fine. It's you who controls when your legs open, after all.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/23 03:55 PM
1

What you say may be true, but doesn't necessarily mean that women aren't too picky. It could be your pickiness that causes you to have high standards, ergo, thus looking down on men who do not meet those standards. Who are you, for example, to define what constitutes mediocre, or not? It could be your pickiness talking! By the way, I think it's totally fine for women to be picky. It drives men to improve themselves.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/23 03:32 PM
11

It's much easier for an average woman to get casual sex off dating apps than an average man. Not really agreeing or disagreeing with you, just pointing something for you to consider.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/23 06:24 AM
1

That's a strawman and is not what RP says.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/23 04:02 AM
2

It's a harsh world. Welcome to the Red Pill. Eta: This post should demonstrate convicingly that the different subpopulations within the manosphere are not the same.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/04/23 04:59 AM
3

Yes, men and women are different. Women are more complex and emotive than men. Just compare the number of words spoken per day between men and women.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/04/23 04:47 AM
4

Good thing that's not what TRP actually says.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/23 03:26 PM
1

Fair enough, that makes sense. So your original statement perhaps requires clarification: it's not actually that women shouldn't choose a work in progress, but rather someone at a similar stage to themselves. Do I understand you correctly?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/23 03:23 PM
1

Is the alternative any better though, as a woman? Like, the saying is that women like to wait at the finish line and pick the winners... but there's going to be tons of other women with the exact same idea. Is that a guarantee of loyalty either?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/23 02:50 PM
1

What?
/r/PurplePillDebate02/04/23 07:50 AM
1

Red pill is about becoming the complete package, including looks, money, game. That doesn't mean that relationships aren't transactional though, nor does it imply toxicity. Would women go for ugly, broke, socially inept men? No.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/04/23 05:31 AM
1

Yes, women and men both have the right to value or choose anyone they want. Next question?
/r/PurplePillDebate02/04/23 05:28 AM
1

Thanks for your thoughts!
/r/PurplePillDebate01/04/23 02:24 PM
1

I didn't read your whole post but that's not the RP view. RP says that the man has to improve himself to be able to attract more women and be able to choose the one he wants. Anyway, I do agree with your title, the higher sex drive of men means men desire women more than the other way around.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/04/23 10:20 AM
33

I think that you're misunderstanding OP's point. I too believe that it's important to understand female language, the language of emotion (see Practical Female Psychology).
/r/TheRedPill01/04/23 12:59 AM
1

In Utopia maybe it can be true for two people in a relationship to be exactly the same. But people with experience know that that's simply not true.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/04/23 12:54 AM
1

I'm not advocating for anything here, other than becoming the complete package, which does include picking up some game. To be honest, I'm not even a fan of PUA myself and haven't done any cold pickups in my life. But I imagine that part of the advice will be to be a little weird to stand out, to be interesting, etc. I think perhaps the disconnect is that women automatically associate game with manipulation. Whereas a large part of game is about teaching men about the things that women respond f…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/04/23 12:51 AM
1

Makes sense! Thanks for your thoughts.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/03/23 06:29 PM
4

Well, it is a little bit. Aren't there studies out there showing that the degree of sexual harassment reported by women depends on how attractive the harasser is?
/r/PurplePillDebate31/03/23 03:06 PM
1

Luckily the OP isn't claiming that this is a RP view, because it's not.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/03/23 03:14 AM
1

Good thoughts! At least this "be yourself" advice comes with other practical tips this time! Not sure if you know this, but "be yourself" is kind of bad advice for the struggling unattractive man.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/03/23 12:43 AM
1

Fair points! Although I posit to you that you may think that the natural is treating you like "people", but actually the things he says to women are geared to getting favorable responses from women. He's just doing this naturally/subconsciously because he's spent his life surrounded by women, as you say. Men know this because when natural chads are in exclusively male company, their behavior can be much different.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/03/23 12:39 AM
5

C'est la vie. Try not to think of it as jumping through hoops. Think of it as having a fantastic and fulfilling life which your woman would love to accompany you on.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/03/23 05:16 PM
3

No, they wouldn't belittle the man, but they wouldn't think anything of it either. The point being it's not too hard for a man to do 20 pullups after some training. If a women sleeps with 20 men in a month, it's not as impressive as if a man sleeps with 20 women over the same time frame, simply because of the differences in the difficulty involved. Now whether or not that actually decreases the women's value is another separate question, which is unrelated to the ease of the task and more to do …
/r/PurplePillDebate30/03/23 05:13 PM
8

Well, your gym analogy is right on. It's easier for men to gain muscle so it's not impressive for a man to do 20 pullups for example. But for a woman to do so is mighty impressive.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/03/23 04:08 PM
1

"Women are just as sexual as men". If you're saying women's sex drives are as high as men's, that's completely absurd. But let's step off the morality platform for a moment, who's taking from who, etc. Just look at this in terms of effort. Is it easier for a man or woman to get sex from the other gender? The woman. Ergo, sex with a woman is more valuable than sex with a man. It's just basic economics. No, the analogy still works. The women chooses the key that can open her lock. No suitable key,…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/03/23 03:56 PM
1

Thank you for your answer!
/r/PurplePillDebate30/03/23 03:34 PM
49

That is correct. Men see getting the girl as the goal. Women see the relationship progressing as the goal. Hence, the disconnect. ETA: This is why Red Pill says that the man needs to be in continual self-improvement mode and keep gaming his gf/wife throughout the entire relationship, lest his woman feel unloved, or even worse, bored.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/03/23 12:41 PM
1

Because women like older men? End of story.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/03/23 07:12 AM
4

But nowhere in the Red Pill does it say to be angry, pushy and confrontational towards women.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/03/23 05:59 AM
2

Sure, thanks for commenting. What if I play devil's advocate here - you think PUA is terrible because you've only been hit on by novice PUAs. The master PUA might be so smooth you think he's a natural, but he's simply learned and perfected his craft. Have you considered that possibility?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/03/23 02:07 AM
1

Obviously.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/23 08:26 AM
1

Thank you for the contribution, I appreciate it.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/23 05:53 AM
1

Yeah I think some women don't understand this point. They think naturals talk to them like normal people, but what he's saying is actually finely-tuned to elicit the desired response from women.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/23 03:33 AM
1

It is difficult. You're not a natural, but you're not allowed to learn apparently. Just be your authentic self. You can try to be more social, but just don't try to hard though, lol. Women don't like it if you're trying too hard. You gotta be natural about it. Just play it cool.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 07:48 PM
2

Fair enough, thank you for your thoughts.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 07:44 PM
1

You may be right. It does seem that the PUA mention was quite triggering to women. But I did want to get across the fact that the natural has game/rizz that the other dude didn't have. Certainly there are many men who are successful in all spheres of their life... except in romantic relationships with women. I simply see seduction as one part of the overall package of attractiveness and knowing how to deal with women, but it seems that some women disagree.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 07:37 PM
1

I like the honesty! Username checks out.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 05:36 PM
1

Thank you for sharing, all fair points.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 05:33 PM
1

No you didn't. You said that the natural guy doesn't know what he's doing or something like that. You didn't actually say whether you think he's a manipulator or not. No, I get that you think that PUA is manipulation. I'm not going to argue with you on that. I'm just wondering whether you think that the natural chad is also a manipulator when he's seducing women.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 04:32 PM
3

You can repeat as many times as you like, but you're not answering the question though. You're also muddying definitions making it hard to sustain an actual conversation. First, do you consider a man that is naturally good with women (the "chad") a manipulator?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 04:20 PM
3

Interesting, thank you for sharing!
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 04:17 PM
3

I see, thank you for your contribution!
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 04:11 PM
1

I see! Thank you for sharing.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 04:10 PM
2

Interesting, thank you for sharing. This appears to be a minority view, as you can see. How about for short-term though?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 04:01 PM
1

Thank you for sharing. So whether they're attractive or not doesn't matter to you?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 04:00 PM
1

Interesting! This appears to be a minority view, as you can see. I appreciate your thoughts.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 03:58 PM
2

Good thoughts! Let's say the same.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 03:47 PM
2

Thank you! Oh I'm also married too, but I'm not a natural, unfortunately for my wife :)
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 02:57 PM
3

That makes sense, thank you!
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 02:46 PM
2

Hm... I think we're going in circles here, or else I've completely missed your point. How does that relate to being authentic being better for a man or a woman? What do you think about my other example of the unattractive woman? Should she "learn" how to flirt with men or stay authentic and comfortable, if she really wanted a partner?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 02:43 PM
2

Thank you for sharing! Looks like you've found yourself a natural! But is it okay to try a little to get women? Just not too hard, right? Should a "non-natural" try to develop the same charisma as a natural?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 02:40 PM
2

Thanks for the thought, that may be true. I would say though that in general, shyness looks better on a woman than a man.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 02:37 PM
6

Well, that's not very helpful for the man who's struggling to attract women!
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 02:35 PM
2

Hm... I still don't think the line between "learning" and "pretending" is as clear as you make it out to be. As we learn, we get better. Isn't learning social skills the same as learning how to flirt with women?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 02:31 PM
1

Well, I tried to make a post about it but the mods didn't allow it. Maybe I'll try again.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 02:25 PM
2

Well, here's the thing. I never said anything about manipulation in my OP but it seems that many women inferred this, why? Is there anything wrong with learning how to be better with women? I also never said anything about genuine enjoyment or not. One can easily pick up new hobbies that they enjoy. Why can't learning how to flirt with women be a kind of hobby too that one can enjoy? I don't know, let's say we flip the genders around. For example, a woman might not like putting on makeup and dre…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 02:17 PM
3

Agreed, that could be it.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 01:41 PM
2

Interesting. Wouldn't a naturally flirty man (if attractive) get away with saying "Good morning beautiful?". Wouldn't a naturally flirty man be able to break the touch barrier easily (he just wouldn't use those terms)? I'm interested to hear your thoughts, could you explain more?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 01:33 PM
3

Thank you for answering! You seem very reasonable, so let me ask you a follow-up question. What would your advice be to the men who aren't "naturals". Should they try and learn to emulate the qualities of naturally attractive men, or not?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 01:27 PM
2

Right, agreed. I was responding to her implication that learning seduction was manipulative, so I wanted to know whether a guy who was naturally good at playing women (e.g. a player) would receive the same backlash. Interestingly, he didn't.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 01:24 PM
9

The difference here though is that many men are late bloomers, nerdy and awkward until reaching 30. They might have a high sex drive but no one to have sex with. Only when they start making good money and developing their own style are they able to attract women. So that could be one difference between men and women.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 01:19 PM
1

Interesting. So you're saying it's okay to be naturally seductive but not okay to learn to be seductive? What if we replace seductive with something with less negative connotations, like "charming". Does that change your answer? A naturally charming guy vs. someone who had to learn how to charm women?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 01:00 PM
1

Right. So we can still ask the question, who would women prefer, the naturally flirty guy or the guy who learned how to flirt? Or the same?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 12:55 PM
2

Makes sense, thank you for the contribution.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 12:44 PM
2

Reasonable thoughts! What if at the same time as learning game he picked up hobbies and learned how to socialize in those other situations as well? He wouldn't be "naturally" social but learned.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 12:37 PM
2

I don't know either, but plenty of women here say they can tell!
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 11:55 AM
2

Are you a woman, if so can you tell?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 11:27 AM
2

Thank you for the reply.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 11:21 AM
0

Are you a woman? To answer your question: yes.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 10:11 AM
2

Thank you for your contribution!
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 09:46 AM
1

Thank you for sharing! I did not realize how many women here prefer the shy and awkward type.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 09:44 AM
1

I see! That may be a minority view though. Seems like many women here prefer "naturals". Thanks for contributing!
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 09:30 AM
2

Right, that all makes sense. But to get back to the core of the question then, it seems like that it doesn't matter (to you) whether a man is naturally seductive or whether he learned it, only that he doesn't engage in manipulation?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 08:54 AM
2

Yes sorry for the confusion, I'm not well-versed with the current lingo. I didn't mean physical attractiveness, more like being seductive or charming. Someone posted out that a better word was "rizz". A guy who's naturally got rizz vs. a guy who learned to develop rizz. Does that change your answer at all?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 08:40 AM
2

Very reasonable thought, thank you! (Although one that does seem to be in the minority!)
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 08:35 AM
1

Very reasonable thoughts! Although, what if I narrow it down more specifically to the concept of having game (or "rizz")? The "natural" who just "knows" how to seduce women by saying the right things to charm them, vs. the man who learned through reading or videos. Are you saying that the latter is manipulative but the former is not?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 08:34 AM
2

Thanks for your thoughts! Very reasonable.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 08:30 AM
1

Post updated! Thank you.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 08:28 AM
1

Very reasonable thoughts. Thank you sharing.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 08:28 AM
6

Ah okay, you're the one who brought up manipulation though. I did not ascribe intent to either person in my example. But if seduction is manipulation, isn't the "natural" also a manipulator? The "natural" who knows exactly what to say to attract women, to get them sexually aroused. Who can easily get what he wants from women (sex) without giving anything they want in return (commitment). Is that not a type of manipulation to you? Or is it okay because that's just the way he is? Put it another wa…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 08:23 AM
7

But you'd be OK with a natural player? That's the question.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 06:29 AM
3

Interesting! Thank you for your thoughts. Shy guys rejoice, lol. Is that a common thing in your opinion? I thought most women equate nerdy and shy with awkward and not knowing how to interact with women. That's why I didn't have a third category of men.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 06:25 AM
3

Thanks for engaging! Sorry for the confusion. For attractiveness I don't just mean handsome here. I'm talking about the "naturals", men who are just instinctively good with women. What's a better word for this? For the purpose of this question, let's assume both men are equally handsome. To your second point, plenty of women say that they can tell though! Wait, are you a woman?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 06:05 AM
3

Good thoughts, thank you. How many of these shy awkward women are there out there, in your opinion? An even more important question is would the shy awkward woman prefer the shy awkward guy or the more confident outgoing charming man?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 05:54 AM
7

Sure, but is this just the "be yourself" advice though? Cause no woman is going to go after the shy awkward guy, right? Thanks for commenting!
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 05:41 AM
2

The problem is that alot of incel content gets associated with RP. e.g. The incel complains about AF/BB and uses it to shame women. The RP man accepts AF/BB, does not shame women, and works hard to try and avoid being the BB.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/23 05:38 AM
1

/end thread
/r/PurplePillDebate20/03/23 03:53 AM
1

Well, according to RP status, money, power are part of the complete package, not just looks. So I agree with you there.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/03/23 04:20 PM
1

Agreed! So what were we disagreeing on again? Maybe I confused your first point.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/03/23 03:42 PM
6

I would disagree. Plenty of TRP is applicable for maintaining LTRs. It's a worldview, not just a PUA manual for getting laid.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/03/23 12:22 PM
1

Yes, that's right. Both men and women should take responsibility for their own actions.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/03/23 12:20 PM
1

Obviously, it is the men who are offering the money, but it is the women's propensity to accept such "compensation" in lieu of attractiveness that makes the AF/BB principle applicable.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/03/23 12:46 AM
2

You're putting the cart before the horse. If TRP is right, a man must try to become the AF, or suffer a loveless marriage. If TRP is wrong, then there's no such thing as AF/BB so what are we even talking about?
/r/PurplePillDebate16/03/23 12:40 AM
1

Are you really a woman?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/23 09:59 AM
11

Red pill is not mad about AF/BB. Red pill accepts it, and teaches men to be aware of it, and hopefully not become the BB.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/23 09:56 AM
2

Fair enough! Thank you for sharing.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/03/23 02:39 AM
1

Sure, but us there any element of truth in there? As a man, I'd feel more comfortable in a relationship earning more than my partner. As a woman, if you had to pick, would you prefer above or below?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/03/23 08:23 PM
1

Thank you.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/03/23 02:09 AM
1

Fair enough.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/03/23 12:24 AM
1

Thank you for sharing!
/r/PurplePillDebate08/03/23 06:31 PM
2

Sounds reasonable!
/r/PurplePillDebate08/03/23 03:49 AM
1

Thank you for sharing! Looks like you prefer to see each other as equals then. Is there any element where you would expect the man to be the leader of the relationship, at all?
/r/PurplePillDebate08/03/23 02:52 AM
1

Thank you for the detailed answer! To prod you a bit more, how about someone who makes less money and is less intelligent (however you wish to define it) than you? Would that still be okay?
/r/PurplePillDebate08/03/23 12:27 AM
3

To answer your question, yes, duh. Women have lower sex drives than men.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/03/23 12:32 PM
2

Thanks for the conversation! I think we've come full circle now. I agree with everything you said in the last paragraph. But, this question was about women. Would women feel comfortable being the provider and taking the helm of the relationship? That is the question I was asking. Is the tendency of women to "date up" at least partially biological and innate (e.g. because women bear the greater risks in pregnancy, they need to be picky and select the best provider), or is it purely societal? In t…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/03/23 06:35 AM
1

Indeed. But the curious thing is that wealth and status will no longer be solely, or even, mainly the domain of men in the not too distant future. Is there any innate, biological desire for a woman to look for a partner who can be the leader of the relationship, someone she can look up to, or is that purely an artifact of history? That's what I'm interested to know.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/03/23 06:22 AM
1

Thank you for your thoughts! Makes sense. Maybe not going to the extremes here, even for women with "normal" upbringings, is there any element where a woman would want to be with a man that she can look up to, even if she is financially self-sufficient? Or is that not a factor anymore?
/r/PurplePillDebate07/03/23 06:19 AM
1

Thanks for sharing! Good thoughts.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/03/23 04:02 AM
1

Thank you for the honest answer!
/r/PurplePillDebate07/03/23 03:23 AM
1

All fair points! Yes, of course it does not guarantee it, it just helps that is all. Right, but that is such a small minority compared to the inverse right now. The question I wanted to ask women is: nature or nurture? If women earn an equal amount to men in the future, will we see an equal number of pool boys vs. sugar babies? I say no, but who knows?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 08:29 PM
0

Easy answer. So that I can be the woman's best option, if she is looking for someone that is more mature and intelligent. Now I'm not saying I'm selecting for dumbness, I'd just prefer someone at a slightly lower level than myself. So the men who want equals will match with the women who want equals. The women who want someone to look up to will match with the men who want to be the leader of the relationship. The men who want someone to look up to... Who are they going to match with? It just do…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 08:20 PM
1

I see. That may be, although what's the solution then? There is definitely going to be a power imbalance in such relationships. It has to be if the women wants someone with those qualities. If fact, the more attractive the man, the more options he will have.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 08:10 PM
1

I see. Makes sense. What I'm having trouble with reconciling that with though, is why do some feminists shame men for wanting women who are less wealthy, less mature, younger than them. Isn't that just the other side of the same coin?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 08:03 PM
2

Thank you for sharing! Makes sense.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 08:00 PM
1

Sure, thank you. What if instead of physical height it's about being higher status, more mature, wealthier etc.? Can a feminist woman still want those things, for herself or other women?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 07:59 PM
1

Right, agreed. But at the same time, we can still discuss generalities, what most men and women prefer. So if a woman says "I want a man who I can look up to", is that offensive to a feminist woman? (Not sure if you are one or not, anyone can answer). Because that will necessarily have the man looking back down on the woman, in some sense.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 07:49 PM
1

Really? Those options are kind of mutually exhaustive. Doesn't one person have to be more mature than the other? Wealthier, etc. I'm using hypergamy in a looser sense of just "dating up", women selecting a man they can look up to (maybe in the sense of money, status, maturity or wealth). Is that a thing or no?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 07:41 PM
1

That is right - I'm using the traditional understanding of hypergamy meaning money and status. But I added maturity and intellect as well. Certainly men select for beauty, no doubt about that. The intent of the question wasn't to claim whether hypergamy is good or bad (it's neither IMO), but whether men and women select for different things. If so, does that fit with the feminist narrative that women and men should be equal?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 07:31 PM
1

Very insightful post, thank you so much. Men and women do carry different burdens in society, that is for sure.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 07:24 PM
1

All very reasonable. Thank you for your input!
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 07:23 PM
1

That is true, all very reasonable points. Thank you for sharing! Although, if I can ask you one more question, you said you would prefer someone of more similar background to you. How about a man of lower socioeconomic background than you, would you consider that preferable as a woman? Or maybe a man who grew up in poverty, but has lower education qualifications than yourself and does not have their own business.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 07:13 PM
4

Isn't it just logic though? If a woman wants a man more mature, richer, intelligent, higher status than her, then the woman will necessarily be less mature, less wealthy, lower status than the man. What's the issue here?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 07:03 PM
1

All very reasonable points. I guess there's quite a few concepts being mixed together, as others have pointed out. Many factors can go into leaving someone or choosing to stay together. My original intent was to simply ask women whether they would prefer someone richer, more mature, higher status than themselves ("dating up"). What do you think about that more limited question?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 06:43 PM
1

All very reasonable points. I guess there's quite a few concepts being mixed together, as others have pointed out. Many factors can go into leaving someone or choosing to stay together. My original intent was to simply ask women whether they would prefer someone richer, more mature, higher status than themselves ("dating up"). What do you think about that more limited question?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 06:43 PM
2

Thank you for the honest answer!
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 06:28 PM
2

Can't disagree there!
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 06:28 PM
1

Indeed, it could be that several concepts are getting mixed together. Thanks for the input.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 06:26 PM
2

Well, I'm not here to argue with you. I'm simply interested to hear what you think. I actually agree with you that women are going to become more successful in the future, probably more so than men. Here are some thoughts, I'd be interested to hear what you think. The issue is: even in an equal society, are men and women going to become exactly the same? I say not, because of biology. For example, since woman bear the greater risks in pregnancy, it makes sense for them to be more selective in th…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 06:21 PM
1

I see.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 05:17 PM
2

Do you feel better now after your rant? Nothing you said contradicts the red pill, or indeed even addresses the point I was making. Do you want someone more successful, wealthy, intelligent than yourself or not? The question has nothing to do with men or their monkey brains.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 05:06 PM
1

Thanks for contributing!
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 03:30 PM
1

Thank you for sharing! With regards to specifically attributes such as status, wealth, intelligence, maturity, would you prefer for a man having more of those than yourself, same or less? Not trying to imply that men are superior to women of course (or vice versa).
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 03:29 PM
2

It seems to have been the norm in the past. Is it still true now and will it remain true in the future as women become more successful and earn more than men?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 03:20 PM
1

Absolutely. To be clear, I'm not blaming women here at all. I think hypergamy (at least the way I have presented it) is completely natural and logical. But I do wonder whether this is biological or society, and whether or not this concept clashes with feminist ideals. Hence why I wanted to see what women thought of this topic.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 03:18 PM
1

Thank you for the thoughts! Completely makes sense.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 02:33 PM
1

I see! I get you now. Well, certainly I agree with your sentiment as that is in line with the RP view. By hypergamous though most people regard that as "dating up" in terms of status, wealth, etc. But women definitely bring different things to the table. So I can totally accept your viewpoint. Certainly I didn't mean to imply that one gender was "superior" to another. Putting that point aside though, do you feel like you want to "look up" to your man, is that a thing? As you seem to be a more tr…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 02:31 PM
0

Thank you for the response! I feel like there's a hidden subtext in your message that I can't decipher though.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 02:25 PM
1

Agreed! There are bad men who are abusers. This makes it doubly important for woman to choose right, if she is going down the traditional feminine path. To answer your question, it doesn't make me feel good to be with a woman who is richer, smarter, more experienced and more capable in every way. It kind of takes away alot of what it means to be masculine.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 02:20 PM
1

If by sexist you mean traditional gender roles, then I can't disagree. RP emphasizes the differences between men and women. Do you think that is still a place for traditional gender roles in today's society? If a woman says she prefers a man to earn more and to provide for her, is she also being sexist?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 02:16 PM
1

Personally, no. But yes, I think not a few men would prefer the reverse. The problem is that there are even fewer women happy to play the more provider role, at least it seems right now. Maybe that will change with women becoming the higher earning partner on average in the future.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 02:14 PM
0

Well, let's not worry about what men think right now. What's your preference in an ideal partner?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 02:06 PM
0

Hm... Were you being sarcastic? I don't think there's anything wrong with being hypergamous as a woman, in case there was any confusion. I think it's completely natural and justified, from a RP point of view.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 02:02 PM
0

Right, I'm not blaming women actually. I think it's a good thing that women have high standards for men. It drives men to constantly improve themselves. In terms of dating dynamics, this is why a lot of men are frustrated. They simply aren't appealing to the majority of women, and that's not the women's fault. The burden is on the man to improve himself.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 02:00 PM
1

Thank you for the thoughtful comment! It is definitely unusual, but it looks like it works well for you.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 01:50 PM
1

Thank you for sharing. The traditional concept of hypergamy refers to things like wealth, status, etc. But I can definitely see your point of view, men and women bring different things to the table.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 01:49 PM
1

Thanks for engaging! I get what you're saying. I should have been more clear. With regards to hypergamy or dating up, most consider this in terms of things like wealth, status, maturity, etc. So in my fantasy I'm with a beautiful feminine woman who I can teach, provide, and show the world to, not a rich successful businesswoman with much more experience than myself.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 01:46 PM
1

Fair enough.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 01:37 PM
1

I find it interesting that you prefer a man who makes less than you. This is unusual, right? Would you care to explain why? Maturity - emotional maturity, in control of emotions, able to see the big picture.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 01:35 PM
4

Well, let's take things like wealth, status, intellect, maturity. My opinion is that as a man, it's easier for the relationship if the man has more of those qualities. And some women at least in this thread also agree. Is it female hypergamy for wanting those things? Or traditional gender roles? What do you think?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 01:33 PM
1

Thanks for sharing! Yes, I think it's because traditionally, work was the man's domain. A woman with a better career would be outmanning a man.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 01:28 PM
1

Sounds reasonable. Interesting way of putting it. Does that go against the feminist equality mantra in any way though?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 01:26 PM
2

Absolutely, in fact it looks like women will be outearning men in the not too distant future. So I take it that you think that hypergamy is entirely cultural, and not biological? In such a future, will a woman still prefer man to be leader of the relationship, or not? Would women "dating up" not be a thing anymore? Are traditional gender roles dead?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 01:20 PM
2

Yeah, that's a really dumb take. (I am agreeing with you). The real RP claim is that women are attracted to physical attractiveness but also status, money, maturity. These are traits that men generally develop as they get older, so it takes longer for a man to become a "complete package" compared to a woman. Some men never develop those traits at all, and remain unattractive. The claim isn't, obviously, that every middle aged man is attractive to every young women.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 12:28 PM
1

Thank you for sharing! Appreciate your thoughts. Successful - probably with regards with career or a visible leadership role in well-regarded communities outside of work.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 12:01 PM
2

Thank you for sharing! That's bad news for guys.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 11:52 AM
1

Thanks for sharing! I absolutely agree with your final sentence. I also agree that men and women should complement each other in a relationship. So, we need to go back to the concept of gender roles. Hypergamy usually refers to things like status, wealth, etc. Are these masculine traits? Perhaps in the past, but not anymore. It is interesting though that a significant fraction of woman still do want a higher earning / more successful partner. How do you explain that?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 11:49 AM
5

Why is it if a woman prefers someone older, richer, more mature, successful than them?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 11:48 AM
1

Very reasonable thoughts. Although by hypergamy or "dating up" most people will think of these in traditional terms like status/wealth.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 10:02 AM
2

I see, that sounds very reasonable.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 08:58 AM
2

I'll tick "not important" for you then. Sounds like you're not hypergamous at all then. Good for you!
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 08:48 AM
0

That's fair. Anything specifically regards to success, wealth, intellect, maturity or are those not so important for you?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 08:18 AM
1

What's your ideal partner then?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 08:09 AM
2

Thank you that's perfectly reasonable. Although I think that the RP idea is that a woman adds femininity to the relationship, rather than maturity, status, wealth, etc. So according to RP, the two can complement each other, even if the man takes the more dominant or leadership role that the woman "looks up" to.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 07:51 AM
3

Yeah, I can see how it's not logically consistent. I should have worded that part better. But the gist of the point is that in a LTR, women are more likely to ditch their current partner for a better option than the other way around.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 07:44 AM
2

Indeed, that is a whole can of worms.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 07:32 AM
1

Very reasonable thoughts, thank you for sharing.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 07:28 AM
1

You are right, it's a mix of two different, though related (in my opinion) concepts. Because of female hypergamy, it's more important (in my opinion) for a man to be a woman's best option than the other way around. Plus women generally are the ones who become more easily bored or dissatisfied in LTRs, and are also generally often more prone to comparison with others. If she thinks that she's "better" (however you wish to define it) than you in multiple ways, then the relationship is probably ove…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 07:27 AM
1

Good thoughts!
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 07:19 AM
2

Very interesting thoughts, thank you.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 07:15 AM
2

Can't disagree with that! How about yourself?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 07:06 AM
2

Thank you for sharing!
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 06:53 AM
1

Well hypergamy generally refers to things like social status, success, money, intellect. Do you seek out women with more of those things than yourself? Edit: Another difference is that women, generally, are the ones that more easily get bored or dissatisfied in LTRs than men. Plus, women, generally, are more prone to comparisons with what other women have (social media doesn't help here). So in my view, it's more important for a man to be a woman's best option than the converse, especially in th…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 06:52 AM
3

Thanks for sharing - but flip the question backwards, do you imagine you will be more attracted to someone "better" (however you wish to define it) than yourself?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 06:51 AM
1

Thank you for sharing!
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 06:48 AM
1

Thank you for sharing!
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 06:45 AM
1

Thank you for sharing!
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 06:43 AM
2

I agree. For the record, I don't see anything wrong with female hypergamy at all. In your opinion is it biological, societal, or a mixture of both?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 06:42 AM
2

Thank you for sharing!
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 06:40 AM
1

More attractive and successful than yourself, you mean? That's really the key question.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 06:35 AM
2

Bro, you gotta lose the victim mentality first. If you can't, nothing can help you. Maybe join a boot camp or something.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 05:47 AM
1

You can improve your social skills, career, game, dress... That's all part of the package. But attractiveness is what gets your foot in the door first.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 05:20 AM
1

Money is only part of it. You need to look into the red pill, brother. It has the answers to all of your questions.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 04:29 AM
1

Maybe not. Anyway, the alpha male shouldn't really care about what other people think anyway. He just does it.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 12:52 AM
1

OK, I was not aware of that. It's not stuff that's really in the original red pill, which is focused on what the man should be doing to become an alpha male that women are attracted to. It's probably grifters looking for clicks. Shaming women is NOT an alpha move at all. To your second point though, there's nothing wrong with targeting younger women. We shouldn't shame either men or women for their preferences, as long as they are legal and not manipulative.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/23 12:46 AM
1

How about not judging either men or women for entering into legal and consensual relationships?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/23 04:47 PM
0

"The wall" is the least obvious one. The red piller does not care about that, in the slightest. Why would he? It doesn't affect him.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/23 03:46 PM
3

Thanks for engaging! First, do you realize you're parroting incel talking points about how women prefer men who are naturally chads and ignore other men? So, what's your advice for men who are not naturally attractive, masculine, and confident then? Just give up? Secondly, actually... I really want to hear your response to my first point first.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/23 02:23 PM
1

And water is wet.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/23 02:17 PM
2

And to address your point directly, how do you know that the guy you just fucked was once a blue piller who became attractive through using the red pill? That's right, you can't.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/23 02:04 PM
5

Hard disagree. For some reason, the entire manosphere is often lumped together even though there are several quite distinct subspecies which can hold often opposing views. I feel like important distinctions should be made between traditional red pill vs. incels. Specifically, I feel like certain concepts from the incel ideology are being unfairly ascribed to red pill praxeology. Incels hate women, red pill does not hate women. Incels hate chads, red pillers aspire to become chad. Incels shame fe…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/23 01:58 PM
1

Yeah... Except it's not. You're thinking of incels perhaps?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/23 01:36 PM
5

That's not really red pill stuff. What are you actually reading?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/23 11:19 AM
1

Indeed. By using that as an insult, they're actually supporting (without realizing it probably) your worldview, because we can infer from such a statement that women prefer men who are more sexually experienced than them. Ergo, it's therefore completely natural for men to prefer younger, less sexually experienced women. It's pretty hilarious actually.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/23 08:49 AM
1

What if it's the woman who prefers someone smarter, richer and stronger than herself?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/23 08:42 AM
0

Obviously. Preferences are preferences, as long as nothing illegal or exploitative/manipulative is going on. Men shouldn't shame women for wanting someone taller, richer and more mature than them. It goes both ways.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/23 08:42 AM
0

You need to look into the red pill, brother. It has the answers to all of your questions.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/03/23 04:16 AM
1

You need to look into the red pill, brother. It has the answers to all of your questions.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/03/23 03:16 AM
1

That's the chip on your shoulder speaking. Understanding female hypergamy is in no way, shape or form, demonizing women. Mistreating women is of course wrong but that's not what RP preaches.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/03/23 06:10 AM
6

Right, exactly.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/23 09:31 AM
2

Wrong. For some reason, the entire manosphere is often lumped together even though there are several quite distinct subspecies which can hold often opposing views. I feel like important distinctions should be made between traditional red pill vs. incels. Specifically, I feel like certain concepts from the incel ideology are being unfairly ascribed to red pill praxeology. Incels hate women, red pill does not hate women. Incels hate chads, red pillers aspire to become chad. Incels shame female pre…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/23 09:30 AM
1

You make some great points. I don't totally disagree with you. But you seem to cling strongly to the notion that men and women are the same and should be treated the same. They are absolutely not, in my view. If we're not on the same page then there's not much point in discussing this further. Take a look at this short video and tell me what you think: https://youtu.be/-XVRkkX2V0Y You may be right about the neurodivergent part. It may be cultural and societal as well. A whole generation of young…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/02/23 03:30 PM
1

To your first point, that's not the point I was making. Woman know that men are primarily visual creatures and know what turns men on. Men are pretty simple. If a man says he likes a girl with a pretty face, nice body and is great in bed, well there's no nuance to that. When women say they want a man to be loyal, kind and respectful, they miss out the most important point, which is that they want these qualities in a man that they're already attracted to. If an attractive man who is an asshole l…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/02/23 08:03 AM
1

Interesting! Hope you don't mind if I ask you a question. If an attractive man were to use seduction tactics on you, would it still be pathetic in your view, or would you feel that he's just being naturally smooth? Is there a possibility that you might have been seduced by an attractive man using such "tricks" without realizing it?
/r/PurplePillDebate25/02/23 07:09 AM
0

It's jarring because men are pretty simple about liking hot women. Women always say they want a kind respectful loyal man. But it turns out that they're comparing an attractive man with those qualities vs. an attractive man without those qualities. How about the unattractive man who is kind respectful and loyal? He's shit out of luck. That's the part that messes with guys' heads and makes them realize the truth of RP.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/02/23 03:41 AM
-1

I agree that that is faulty logic, incel logic perhaps? RP does however make the following claims: An attractive man will have many more options, and will not need to compromise his values and wants for a girl. The order of attraction goes like this: attractive chad > attractive asshole > unattractive nice guy > unattractive asshole. It's the fact that attractive asshole are more successful with women than unattractive nice guys that can be jarring at first to men. Women aren't deliberately goin…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/02/23 02:31 AM
0

Don't overthink it. You somehow managed to turn something simple into something complicated and confusing. First, men will never be as selective as women. The higher sex drive of men and greater risks of sex for women takes care of that. Second, beauty does trump everything according to you. If it's step 0, it means that it is an essential prerequisite. How can it then be trumped by anything else? Third, RP does not say to only care about looks and nothing else. That's a strawman. Fourth, don't …
/r/PurplePillDebate23/02/23 07:05 PM
3

/thread
/r/PurplePillDebate23/02/23 06:37 PM
17

Indeed. Unfortunately that appears to be the way life is. The strong get stronger. Women like men with experience, but men prefer the reverse. Men and women ARE different, despite protestations to the otherwise.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/23 02:04 AM
20

Rough or unkind is wrong, but perhaps weird and awkward is just due to lack of experience. So I'm guessing women would prefer a man who's more experienced in dealing with women? A guy who's not burned out from trying because he's always been successful... a chad.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/23 12:42 AM
2

Interesting thought.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/02/23 04:03 PM
3

That is true. It's more stable than the alternative, that's all one can say.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/02/23 03:20 PM
1

Oh, I completely understand what you and OP are saying. I'm just saying that it's not completely one-sided, because for a woman, sitting through a date with a guy they don't like is hard even if they get a free meal at the end of it.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/02/23 11:39 AM
4

That is right. Modern dating is kind of fucked. A successful man who commits gets fewer benefits for increased responsibility. Having kids in a stable family unit is the main reason.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/02/23 09:51 AM
1

Fair enough.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/02/23 05:28 AM
1

Yeah... But it's not free money.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/02/23 12:17 AM
1

You're in luck! Plenty of queens are looking for their squire.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/23 08:20 PM
24

Very dumb take. It would be like a job. Would you do a job that you didn't like? That said, there is some truth in what you mention about Valentine's day. Some women will feel left out, especially if their friends are posting about it on their socials. I just don't think it outweighs being with a dude that you're not attracted to.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/23 08:13 PM
1

The two are not mutually exclusive!
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/23 07:01 AM
6

Simple explanation. Women like women more than men like men. Edit: To all those triggered folks downvoting this, it comes from the title of an article describing a study: https://www.apa.org/monitor/dec04/women "Women are nearly five times more likely to show an automatic preference for their own gender than men are to show such favoritism for their own gender, according to a study in the October issue of the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology (Vol. 87, No. 4)."
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/23 06:41 AM
1

I'm not lying. Care to plainly state the "prediction" that RP makes? Is it about the so-called "wall"? What is the prediction then exactly?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/02/23 05:42 PM
5

Agreed. The whole post is moot.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/02/23 08:29 AM
0

They're losers. Probably incels.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/02/23 05:45 AM
1

What decline? They're simply stating their opinion she's unattractive, with exaggeration for effect. Are people seriously claiming that that's supposed to be an actual prediction? I am confused.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/02/23 04:09 AM
1

The red pill doesn't make predictions. A bunch of dudes being mean and hurtful doesn't define the philosophy. A real RP man wouldn't need to put down others to make himself feel better. Anyway, why can't she have found a BP partner? That would solve the "paradox" from a RP perspective.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/02/23 03:34 AM
3

/thread
/r/PurplePillDebate18/02/23 02:37 AM
6

Agreed. It's also about understanding female psychology, about why platitudes such as "just be yourself" and "happy wife, happy life" don't actually work in real life. And why movies or books that romanticize a man jumping through a million hoops to get the woman of his dreams is selling a completely bullshit view of reality.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/02/23 01:43 PM
1

Well, only so as far as it helps the man respond correctly. TRP does not really care what a women says. So the entire conversation you quoted is moot, there wouldn't even be the initial question asked in the first place. And using words to "prove" that woman is lying is kinda a beta move. Instead, TRP will teach men to use actions (and observe women's actions, not their words) to get what you want. Why? This is because men and women think very differently, and so can interpret the same statement…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/02/23 04:15 PM
7

Indeed. Why do women do this rather than being direct? Is it consciously or unconsciously done? Is it a result of biology or is it social conditioning?
/r/PurplePillDebate16/02/23 11:18 AM
1

Fair enough.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/02/23 07:37 AM
19

Indeed. What people mistake about the Red Pill is that it is descriptive, not prescriptive. It's about how the world actually works, not how it should work.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/02/23 07:24 AM
5

Yeah, that's life man unfortunately. You need better guy friends who can build you up. Women are repelled by unattractive men, so taking advice from them is useless. Any small slip-up you make will be magnified 100x. Whereas, they break all their rules for an attractive man as you mentioned.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/02/23 04:01 AM
4

There's two ways to look at it I think. One view, which is the one I was trying to get at, is that since nearly all women can have children and provide sex (which are very valuable things indeed), the provision of children and sex becomes inseparable from the female identity. Hence, women are born intrinsically valuable and ergo, are all worthy of being loved in this view. If all men provided equal resources, then they are also all intrinsically valuable and should also all be deserving of love …
/r/PurplePillDebate15/02/23 08:58 PM
7

But nearly every women can provide those, so it's not a great differentiator.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/02/23 04:35 PM
1

Right, your original statement was totally misleading though. Your bias is really showing. Your original statement implied that TRP teaches that all women are inferior to all men. Your clarification indicates that it is hardly that. In fact, if anything, the fact that many men struggle with getting sex means that they are indeed the inferior gender when it comes to relationships. But the broader question is: do you deny the existence of hypergamy? An even broader question is do you get offended …
/r/PurplePillDebate15/02/23 03:15 AM
2

That's right. Women have higher standards, and they should, because of their lower sex drives and higher risks of reproduction. They can afford to be picky. But what really messes with guys' minds is when they say they want, X, Y, Z (usually nice guy traits such as being respectful, loyal, kind) before hitting you with the dreaded "I wish I could find a guy like you". You've just been friendzoned despite having all of those qualities that she listed. Because you aren't attractive to her, so none…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/02/23 02:05 AM
2

Nowhere does TRP say that women are terrible inferior animals attracted to bad traits. Nice try though. It does however emphasize the intrinsic differences between men and women.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/02/23 12:24 AM
3

Yep. Triggered.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/02/23 08:11 PM
1

Did I misunderstand your first comment? I thought you meant that men deny the importance of attraction. I don't disagree with your overall points. I would totally agree with you that men are more shallow. Shallow and simple!
/r/PurplePillDebate14/02/23 07:21 PM
2

It's the other way around, in my opinion. Men are pretty simple about what attracts them (a lot of that is physical). Women say they want an honest, loyal, respectful, funny man. But turns out that they only want those things in a partner whom they're already attracted to.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/02/23 07:05 PM
1

Direct quotes about "seething hatred" for their wives please. I'll wait.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/02/23 06:03 PM
1

Sure, call it whatever you want. That's the starting point for many guys who turn to RP though, who have been misled by well-meaning platitudes such as "be yourself" or "happy wife, happy life". Doesn't change my overall point that Red Pill is about blaming yourself for not being attractive enough, not blaming women.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/02/23 03:20 PM
1

Incels maybe. True RP uses that knowledge to better themselves.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/02/23 03:15 PM
1

Not at all. How about you open up the latest few OYS and see how much wife-hating actually goes on. I see more examples of guys being tough on themselves for not being better leaders. You seem to be misrepresenting things. A lot.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/02/23 01:09 PM
8

I did not claim getting angry caused something to be more or less true. So I agree with you there.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/02/23 11:03 AM
8

There may be some angerness and bitterness when you realize that you've been lied to your whole life. It is important for men to move past that phase though and return to positive self-improvement, else you turn into an angry misogynistic incel. Which for some reason is getting lumped into TRP.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/02/23 10:53 AM
6

It's your prerogative to think that. Does it improve your dating life or life in general? Funnily enough TRP doesn't call women shitbirds though.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/02/23 10:46 AM
10

I disagree, it's the opposite actually. Blue pill: I'm a nice guy, why don't women like me. I've done everything I can to please women. It can't possibly be my fault because I'm the perfect nice guy. Why don't women realize this?? Red pill: It's my fault that women are not attracted to me. I must become more attractive to women.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/02/23 10:44 AM
7

The statistic doesn't "disprove" hypergamy, at all. You simply have to ask the women: would you have preferred to marry a man who outearns you? It's like claiming that the fact that ugly women get married suggests that men don't actually like hot women.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/02/23 09:03 AM
–

In a perfect world maybe. You'll see. Sometimes there isn't one decision that makes both parties equally happy. When that happens, one leads, the other follows.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/23 11:41 AM
1

Absolutely, of course. But there's usually one CEO right? Not two (usually). What it boils down to, which is the point that I was trying to lead you towards, is that when push comes to shove who's going to be calling the final shot? Most men would want to be the one doing that in a relationship. Obviously, an ambitious/dominant woman can get along just fine with a less ambitious/submissive man, it's just not as common.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/23 11:09 AM
1

Yeah, do you realize that's really rare though right? You and your boyfriend are both "very ambitious" and have the exact same ambition. OK, then what if your ambitions change in the future? Or maybe you start the business, but then your visions for the business diverge?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/23 11:00 AM
1

How would they NOT clash lol... unless you have exactly the same ambitions. For example: your partner wants to start a business in your local area, you want to do a PhD in another country. Someone has to give.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/23 10:53 AM
0

What happens when your ambition clashes with your partner's? Whose takes precedence?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/23 10:49 AM
1

I'm a mouth guy myself. Condom, then finish in mouth.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/23 03:49 AM
36

If women are attracted to a man = dominant. If not attracted = controlling.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/23 05:08 PM
1

It's an interesting thought. My wife thinks that women will indeed have to relax their educational and income standards. The urge to procreate, even with a less than desirable male, may still win over. Being in a harem is no good if the man doesn't provide for her. Yeah, she'll have his good genes, but she'll be raising the kid on her own income? Not the preferred situation. This may lead to more unhappy marriages due to women perceiving they are superior to their mates. Or maybe more cheating t…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/23 08:01 AM
4

I just want to point out that red pill does not blame women for anything's fault. It simply helps men to understand why women act the way they do. You wouldn't blame a woman for acting like a woman, right? In fact the red pill says that if you aren't able to get women, it's YOUR fault for being unattractive. Maybe you're thinking of incels.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/23 07:35 PM
1

I can understand. I guess this is why women are big on supporting each other, which can be puzzling to men sometimes. Try to ignore the negativity as much as possible. Sending positive vibes your way!
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/23 06:56 PM
1

Who cares what they write? Only losers bash others.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/23 06:41 PM
1

OK. But that's two separate claims, which can both be true. Women become less attractive with age, in general. Women are attracted to older men, in general. That doesn't mean that every older man is going to be attractive to every younger woman. And there are always going to be outliers and exceptions. Plus there are also practical reasons why a woman wouldn't go for a man who is much older than her.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/23 06:40 PM
1

Clearly not every older man is going to be attractive to a younger women. You're building a huge straw man here.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/23 06:31 PM
3

On average, older men are more mature and wiser than younger men. Emphasis on "on average".
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/23 06:30 PM
20

Yes, the old red pill is basically the opposite of what OP states. Wouldn't the new red pill be more like incel or blackpill logic?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/23 11:56 AM
1

It's definitely a hard medicine.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/23 05:45 PM
1

Doesn't RP advocate taking responsibility for your own self-improvement?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/23 10:30 AM
1

What if you went on tinder and said you're ready to fuck?
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/23 12:11 PM
16

Well said. Writing stuff like this shows a lack of empathy.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/23 07:16 PM
5

I would say it's the incel/blackpill vote not the red pill vote. Red pill says: you (the man) are not the victim. You have the power to self-improve and take control of your life. Women are not being unfair to you when they reject you. They are just being women. Work on making yourself more attractive to women. That said, I don't disagree with your overall point of pandering to the dum dums in society to get their votes.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/23 06:47 PM
11

I thought this was obvious!
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/23 08:02 PM
1

Hm... I still don't think that's red pill, or at least the original core of it. You got some points right but I don't think it necessarily leads to the just world conclusion. Red pill teaches self improvement. To make yourself more attractive to women. The "equations" that you speak of are simply a model of the things that women find attractive, which includes looks and fitness. There's also nothing about hating women in the red pill, just accepting them for who they are. There's also no entitle…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/23 01:07 AM
1

Right. I don't disagree that red pill advocates might be going off the rails sometimes, but that doesn't change the core philosophy (imo). Red pill doesn't expect a just world though, does it? Red pill says that high value men can have many more sexual options than unattractive men. In what sense does the red pill espouse a just world?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/23 06:41 PM
1

That's tragic.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/23 06:03 PM
5

That's not red pill though. Red pill doesn't say to exploit women and give nothing back. You're kinda building a strawman in the other direction. Red pill says that in order to attract women, you give women what they actually want (an alpha male), due to the fundamental differences between the genders.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/23 05:22 PM
4

Hm. That seems more like blackpill/incel logic than redpill. Red pill says: don't be angry with women or the universe because neither owes you anything, that's just the way life is. "Just be yourself" won't work if you're unattractive. Men must constantly improve themselves to make themselves more attractive to women. Which is the kinda the opposite of what you're saying.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/23 05:03 PM
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