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SmirchaelMiconish Archive

View 0 posts and 190 comments by SmirchaelMiconish on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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–

There's no logical argument against women being cautious around men. Discussions about men being victime of other men or women starting a significant # of physical confrontations with men are distractions. Coupling them at all immediately dismisses women's legitimate concerns. So the way to respect both women's safety concerns about men in dating or relationship contexts and men's experience as victims of violence is to do so separately. And the conflating goes both ways. Men's concerns deserve …
/r/PurplePillDebate18/02/26 04:29 PM
13

I'm saying this for you. You're interpreting her response to suit your preconceived idea about this topic. And I suspect the thought process you bring to your interaction with u/pie-mart is the same thought process you bring to this topic in general, and it;s distorted. And to be clear, the idea that many men feel like they have to make some grand impression beyond the normal "put your best foot forward" impression almost everyone wants to make dating someone new is accurate. It's worth discussi…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/02/26 06:42 PM
12

u/pie-mart is doing fine in this discussion but reading it as a third party you seem hell-bent on finding something offensive to push back on.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/02/26 05:57 PM
1

In my experience intimacy with a friend is generally less intense, so different by degree and also different in type. It seems obvious to me that a desire for sex with someone changes the dynamic significantly. Both kinds of intimacy are great but they're not the same.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/02/26 02:56 PM
1

The links u/Muscletov put up, especially the second one. 254 women responded to the man with hair, and then the same man in the exact same photos was fairly artfully rendered as bald/balding and only 27 responded. He's still an attractive man bald. Some men's features or head shape really benefit from hair but not really in his case, yet the responses to him fell like a rock. And I never said any of the things you attributed to me. A lot of people responded so maybe you mixed me up with someone …
/r/PurplePillDebate12/02/26 03:44 PM
1

This guy does look like he gave up in the second photo. But did you look at the links below. Women's interest dropped precipitously when the same man, same lighting, same background or activity was edited to appear bald. The second link was especially well done and the guy they ran #s on looked pretty good bald. 254 women liked him with hair, and only 30 liked him without hair. That's almost a 90% drop. I don't know what impact that has on his dating but can you say it's likely negligible or eve…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/26 10:51 PM
1

You're right that I should have placed this comment in one of the large discussions in this thread about the morality of TRP. I'm not that interested in whether TRP is about changing the world and I seldom (never?) see it critiqued re whether it does or not. Kind of makes your OP a straw man. You can't make what looks like a defense of TRP without talking about what parts of it bring criticism.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/26 07:36 PM
0

If the tools in the tool box inflict pain on others the tool user has moral culpability. Simple.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/26 07:23 PM
0

Sex is so generally understood to be part of a romantic relationship that anyone wanting to exclude or indefinitely delay sex needs to communicate that.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/26 07:22 PM
2

I think women have a valid point about emotional labor in relationships, but it's overstated. And as a lot of things equalize is the west anyway some women and some men for that matter have a hard time ceding any turf to men. Boys and young men are struggling compared to girls and young women across several objective measures and have been for about a decade, but some people want to couch every men's concern in terms of how it impacts women or compares to women on some similar issue.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/26 02:58 PM
3

I agree. I had a co-worker who called it "being real" and they couldn't understand why no one wanted anything to do with them.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/26 02:44 PM
3

I'm straight so I guess if women are biased against bi-men it hasn't hurt my dating life and potentially benefited it in some indirect way. But here and in my flesh and blood life the number of women, some of whom are progressive who have a one dick rule (a man can only play with his own) is kinda disappointing.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/26 08:26 PM
2

Replied to person above when I meant to reply to auto mod.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/26 08:25 PM
28

Rape is a word. No harm in saying it. Saying grape seems an effort to diminish the real word somehow. Rape doesn't require a knife. Often it just requires knowing the woman well enough to get her alone and then pushing past resistance. Pushing past resistance is rape. And if someone got handsy (sexual assault) with a woman you care about romantically or otherwise and you witnessed it I assume you'd respond. Or is it cool for some man to grope your wife or sister or mother? If it's not then you s…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/26 05:50 PM
2

Who said they're lying? It's either sloppy semantics or a bit self centered to refer to someone who doesn't do it for you as ugly while realizing that another women might find him attractive. Ugliness isn't inherent in him but in one woman's assessment of him.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/26 05:43 PM
2

I'll give you patriarchy because while it has a clear meaning it's used vaguely by women and men. Sexual assault is a pretty clear term. Love, the modern romantic concept comes from men, troubadors and poets trying to woo women.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/26 05:18 PM
3

To people in general. Women, not you necessarily but women sometimes say that they find their friends spouses or BFs ugly. When pressed they say not all that attractive to them, but they start with ugly. Lends some credence to the idea that some women use the term loosely or maybe men are either attractive or ugly.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/26 05:15 PM
3

Maybe it says that women consider ordinary looking or even somewhat attractive men as ugly because those women only see the most remarkable looking men as attractive?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/26 03:09 PM
3

You're right that saying blue is simply "not red" seems to broad, but that's because some of what defines TRP isn't orignal to TRP at all. So saying TBP is distinct from the observations and inferred advice that is unique or uniquely emphasized by TRP is accurate. Things like AWALT, dread game, the prevalence of shit testing, women being the oldest children in the room, and the dogmatic and often smug insistence that TRP orthodoxy is the one true faith. I mean what's not to like? That's what TBP…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/26 05:08 PM
3

There's not really an objective measure of how important sex is. I agree some people exalt it to a point that seems too much but where it fits in their hierarchy of wants and needs isn't my business. And then others talk down its importance, which again may reflect their personal evaluation but has no bearing on how I or anyone else feels. It's almost like everyone gets to decide how important sex is to them.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/26 04:50 PM
0

Because they fear they're not now and more importantly can't be seen as amazing. They may express this fear in gross and self serving ways because talking about that fear frightens them more. Further. I'm pretty old so I came up in a different era but if I were reincarnated as me and 20 years old today in this social dynamic I think I would likely miss out on some or maybe most of the more enjoyable and meaningful experiences I've had. It saddens me think that in the abstract and contemplating t…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/02/26 04:47 PM
–

I agree that this shouldn't be controversial and that it isn't meant to revile men or masculinity. It's a staement of fact that a man is far more likely to be dangerous. To women or other men. I think along with feeling insulted some men see women's safety concerns are just one more hurdle he has to clear to get a date and it pisses him off. Like his ease in dating really trumps her ease in staying healthy and alive. And guys call women solipsistic.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/02/26 03:38 PM
3

This is true and a healthy outlook to strive for. The consequences of a bad hand in the examples you gave are starkly different from long term or permanent romantic failure though, at least for a good number of people who experience it. Pretty easy to pivot away from wanting to be even a good high school sprinter. Wanting to be seriously jacked as a man is a more common desire and while some men will struggle to make significant gains and almost no one ends up looking like The Rock, this isn't t…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/02/26 06:03 AM
5

It does seem that neither sex is thrilled with the idea of their partner having had much sex with men. Whatever the sex of the partner. Women's tendency to pull back from bisexual men is more complicated than this, but I wonder if the idea that a man fucking someone, male or female, sullies them permeates a lot of people's thinking?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/02/26 05:14 AM
3

What is your purpose here? This has an strange odor of self pity mixed with entitlement and a warped view of how the world works, that world as viewed through the lens of an NBA starts sex life. What you imagine it to be in many cases. Your premises are off or emonally skewed. So no, only people with your odd take will agree with you, and you're rare. So again, what's your purpose?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/26 10:56 PM
1

People struggle with this. They see the benefits of all kinds of relationships and experience those benefits but they learn to mistrust of not like people. They're not entirely wrong.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/26 06:35 PM
2

I agree. You don't claim that attractive men are shit, you claim shit men who are attractive may leverage their looks. That happens. That's nuanced though, and some guys here lack nuance and just come off as envious. And not the benign kind where you see things you want and feel some longing wish a little too hard that you could have them too, but the kind wants no one to have the thing you want.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/26 04:12 PM
1

You're right. sometimes they're assholes and telling everyone who they really are so that's a service in a sense. Sometimes their comments seem more pained than hostile but those pained comments are hostility adjacent or maybe come off as whiney, so they still look bad as you say and they weaken or ruin their point.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/26 03:54 PM
2

It can be confusing. Being really muscular is very polarizing. I think it's a turn off to most woman but for a few it's a major turn on.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/02/26 08:48 PM
–

Good list. I hope you feel better soon.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/02/26 08:39 PM
–

Gay sex is, um , gay. Lots of gayness.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/02/26 08:31 PM
–

Is any level not scary?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/02/26 08:25 PM
3

True. If you're trying too hard, well, you're trying too hard. For men or women.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/02/26 05:25 PM
5

Men not being fun (or women being unresponsive) may come from dating strangers we've met on apps, dating sites, or even speed dating, as opposed to meeting through school or work or a hobby. I'd bet those comments are less common when people know each other at least a bit before dating and there's some level of non sexual comfort and/or or a shared interest or passion.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/02/26 05:21 PM
1

What evidence do you have that programming (socialization, etc) is the main driver of some men's near obsession and most young men's preoccupation with sex? Programming happens but works it's because sex is so important to so many men. Those forces exploit an existing basic drive that is typically stronger in men than women.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/02/26 02:26 PM
1

No, I think you're substituting evolution for god's plan in a similar effort to convince people into accepting their fate.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/02/26 07:19 PM
2

OK your choice to not procreate is first, entirely your choice to make and second, one that I fully understand. I also know that some people want to take issue with that choice, especially with you being a woman. I'm with you on normalising that. Same for someone who chooses to forego romantic relationships. That's their choice. If the person wants a romantic life choosing not to pursue that at all baffles me, but I have no problem with their choice. But when it's not a choice? We can accept tha…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/02/26 06:11 PM
1

This I agree with. And if it's up to me, I'm not pulling the plug on someone else's dream and I wouldn't encourage them to give up. But I'd support them if that was their choice.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/02/26 05:30 PM
5

Do you think the OP is looking for pity? I don't see that. He may be trying to convince himself of his stance, but that's different. Elsewhere I'm arguing that we should take anyone's emotional pain seriously, but if an individual wants to stop a fight they don't see a way of winning, me accepting that decision is part of taking their pain, and their choices in response to that pain seriously.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/02/26 05:26 PM
5

When you say "we" I get the distinct impression you don't mean "you". Aren't you the gardening advocate? But for those who can't take part at least til now it can be healthy to decide how much more effort they want to expend, especially since that effort may add to the emotional cost they've already incurred. I support people who want to surrender to what appears to be their fate. But you seem to want to make it almost a non issue. Most typically wired people arrive at the place where they accep…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/02/26 05:22 PM
8

And almost no one is the best version of themselves. That comment places an unnatural burden on him to become the thing none of the rest of us are. Edit: Had mispelled unnatural and just couldn't let it go.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/02/26 05:11 PM
3

Sopmething can be real and inevitable in some cases, and still not be fine. Decidedly not okay. If this is a game I've won, but I can see that losing is painful. If your point is that the "lid for every pot" cultural motif can be harmful and add to the feeling of loss if you find no lid or pot I agree, but the not participating matters even without that added emotional weight. Dating and sex are things most people value and many take for granted and thoe who never partake don't need to be dismis…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/02/26 05:03 PM
2

I substantially agree and while I don't feel all that strongly that men seeking precision are trying to wedge looksmatching into the discussion (I'm sure some are) I do think they're on a misguided and almost OCD like mission to feel certain about this stuff. Even if they have to classify themselves as a 3 on their 10 point scale, that brings them some comfort. The need for certainty outweighs the need for feeling hopeful. On the 20% thing we have guys saying anyone (almost) can be top 20%. They…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/26 05:42 PM
2

I hope men don't give two fucks what women generally prefer and operate on what they prefer and on what works for them. In that sense I agree that for most men in person socializing is an advantage and doing that opens him to rejection and learning to deal with that is good. For him. If women prefer this great because we're on the same page (if we are), but too many men are defining themselve and refining themselves against what they think women prefer, and this supplication is kind of sad.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/26 03:54 PM
3

The claim that beauty is subjective happens in context though, with that context often being a claim that it's objective. Claiming it's objective is technically wrong but if we agree there's a consensus or near consensus about beauty then don't we land at nearly the same place? Falling outside that consensus standard makes it less likely any one person will find you attractive. Being way outside it can be a near death sentence socially. Linguistically there's a difference but on the street it's …
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/26 03:48 PM
6

I have to ask what your purpose was here? You asked men how they felt and then told most of them they were wrong to feel that way.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/26 03:36 PM
1

The fairness arguments are most,ly bullshit based on unlikely to ever happen events. Almost like divorce rape or paternity fraud, which while different are also rare. I can't say I don't care about how things went with medn in her past, but I don't want to know. I can deal with what I want and need and decide whether I'm getting it or not. But .... Just like I'm not concerned with paternity fraud or getting hammered in a divorce, if I was one of the few men those things happened to I'd be prettt…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/26 03:29 PM
9

How vulnerable it feels to be a man early in the dating process. I mean when looking for something long term. It starts with us basically saying we like you enough to want to explore that possibility. Hopefully we've had some clue that you might feel the same, but we never know until you say yes. Then for me anyway I often got a "careful what you ask for" feeling. It's on us to move things along in most cases, from sex happening to how sex happens to exclusivity to future plans. Most women I've …
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/26 03:16 PM
0

You don't really want to have a discussion, do you?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/26 02:57 PM
2

Is it really undignified to try to expand the number of people who might be interetsed in you? Even if you're looking for a committed relationship you're more likely to find someone compatible if you are attractive enough to date a few people you're interested in.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/26 07:20 PM
1

Is it possible that at this time and place (the west) most men are not wired to connect with other men the way women are to connect with other women. When women suggest that men who are lonely emulate women I think that's well intended but frustrating to hear because it's not viable.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/26 04:49 PM
1

She seemed pretty bad to me.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/26 04:38 PM
–

I think you make good points. From a man's perspective, it can feel like many straight women want men to be almost mutually exclusive things. That's women generally. But on an individual level it seems some women want to be equal to their partner in a relationship thast he leads. I don't see that as some calculated plot to confuse men, but more a conflict some women haven't worked through. And that's a human thing and not gendered. A lot of men want to be a "provider" but then rail about being u…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/26 03:41 PM
3

You assessment seems accurate to me. Maslow isn't the last word on this but his hierarchy provides a good framework for the discussion. The felt need for sex, or more than sex I'd say having access to sex with a partner and feeling fairly confident about being able to meet that need is typically more important to men than women. This difference and men's and women's lack of communication about that difference and it's implications does cause friction. Up thread you talked about women arguing in …
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/26 03:33 PM
1

Curious, Are you just talking about the 60-40 split and calling the 40% a small # or are you reducing it further? If you're reducing it further, what places men in dental school outside the pool of men you consider "qualified"?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/26 02:35 PM
2

I think some of the men who are bitter during and after using an app started out hopeful. App use seems to discourage women about men generally and discourage men about themselves individually.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/26 12:35 AM
7

Some men have always said and meant that they wouldn't be with a woman if not for the sex. I suspect some men here say that as a kind of sour grapes posturing, or maybe in response to comments from women about most or many men being unfit for a relationship. I do think access to sex keeps some men in bad relationships. That doesn't mean those men don't prefer a good companion also. Those men's input based on current or past relationships may be loud or frequent compared to men in a more function…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/26 07:52 PM
–

About 1 in 3 men aged 18 to 24 didn't have sex in the last year. If that's based entirely on their attractiveness then those men are still below average. But if a guy is in either cohort that's a shit place to be. Are you saying that "failed men" don't count or shouldn't try to figure out why the've failed at an important developmental task? Or bitch about it if that suits them?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/26 08:37 PM
3

I think you're on to something OP. Men tend to get frustrated on apps and women get fatigued. I strongly suspect that some of the bad options are bad, some just aren't for her, but some are due to too many choices distorting the "value" down of each man she sees after some kind of threshold is reached. Women seem to know or at least sense this and so a lot don't do apps at all, or only briefly. I'd bet the success stories that turned into relationships occur most often with women who don't keep …
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/26 10:01 PM
1

You're correct, and you're 100% trolling.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/26 05:39 PM
8

This is the crux of it. We have to all know or be able to quickly ascertain who someone is to have a conversation about them. Good guy, bad guy, everyman type of guy all have to be known to be relevant.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/26 04:01 PM
6

Your choices define you. In your world view you see women as a piece of ass. How much of yourself are you willing to sacrifice for a piece of ass?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/01/26 10:27 PM
–

I agree the arguments are pointless, but I don't know that they really consciously want to win an argument. The men who can't make any sort of a connection with a woman feel really defeated and that's a miserable way to feel. When the general group of women they want to date include: -Some women who pulling away from dating altogether -Some women who have casual sex until someone they want a relationship with comes along He feels more hopeless. Whether he admits it or not, probably ashamed. Men …
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/26 10:44 PM
–

Do men show interest sometimes? If they do and you're not interested is there a pattern as to why? I ask because I suspect the reasons women aren't interested in the men who want to date them aren't always the reasons men assume.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/26 10:05 PM
–

Do they want to date?
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/26 10:00 PM
–

Or you could passive aggressively ridicule them :)
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/26 09:48 PM
4

Why is that important to establish?
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/26 09:43 PM
4

When you're a girl, the odds are good but the goods are odd. I don't mean this aggressively but have you dated women?
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/26 09:31 PM
3

How would you socialize men differently? I think we can pretty well figure out "gross" but what does "be attractive or exude sex appeal" look like? Isn't it somewhat tied to aspects of the man he can only affect so much?
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/26 04:09 PM
1

Asking gently but is there some obvious reason your cousin gets ignored? You didn't say so I'd assume his appearance or style doesn't grab positive attention and also doesn't put people off. Just kind of a regular young man who you see as "the sweet boy you had always known". If he's in a dark place right now that won't help his dating life and his experience doesn't morally justify his misogynistic comments but his experience does mean something. What do you think it means? Why do you think it …
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/26 04:01 PM
1

India, Israel, UK, Germany.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/26 02:49 PM
0

I'll remain skeptical of anyone who argues for society to endorse him fucking the youngest person possible.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/26 09:51 PM
–

My point is that something about the photo draws you to the profile/bio, and not the other way around. That's not meant to be a gotcha and I don't doubt that you factor in other things, and maybe heavily, but a photo still starts that process, right? And I would do it exactly that way, so again not pointing fingers.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/26 09:46 PM
–

Do you see their profile before you see their photo?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/26 08:08 PM
3

Only a bit tongue in cheek, you present here as very masculine according to your own (frequent) descriptions of masculinity, so your point that masculinity isn't sex based is noted. I see the break between current liberal and conservative as being mainly on the collectivist----individualist spectrum. In theory more than practice for some (see below) but the divide is there. A lot of the other points you make flow from that. Going it alone requires some degree of competitiveness and self focus, e…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/26 08:20 PM
6

I know very few men who aren't at least somewhat insecure about some aspect of their body. I can't fathom not at least suspecting that many men feel pressure to be something they're not. It's absurd.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/26 04:14 PM
0

OK, if I was advising someone who was struggling to date and it was pretty clearly because of clear mental health or neurodivergence or appearance issue they had to live with, I'd advise them to reframe it as a different path. I mean there's a reality to that and there's no sense dwelling on it. But I'd start by acknowledging that they face an extra challenge(s). I'd acknowledge that as a reality, and not a reason give up or to develop shitty beliefs. But I'd start with the reality and try to pu…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/26 02:14 AM
1

Pretty much every time. I'm old (we both are) and I don't finish easily. What works varies too depending on lots of contextual stuff. If I think something I'm doing will get me there I communicate that if it's not what she'd expect, and likewise if I need her to do something....or not to. She's often less willing to communicate overtly but her nonverbal signals are pretty clear to me. Honestly I read her better than she reads me, but I own that because in her experience I'm unique, where in mine…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/26 02:02 AM
2

Dating is challenging for anyone. I won't contest that. Are you implying that being less attractive doesn't add to that challenge though?
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/26 01:54 AM
8

I'm curious as to why you think men shouldn't want an enthusiastic partner? For that matter, why is she his partner and why is she having sex if she's not enthusiastic?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 05:14 PM
3

Generally I agree with you and I'm skeptical of any and every talking point the manosphere puts forth. Your take on this is relevant and worth making. I think your last paragraph is too inclusive though. There are straight men, and I'm one, who find some otherwise progressive women's views on dating bi men curious. Just on the face of it, curious. But when some go on to explain why they feel this way I lose my curiosity and become really diasappointed. Some sound so much like purity motivated me…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 04:59 PM
8

Having lots of children has always been seen as a sign of masculinity. Now all things related to reproduction, like having kids, birth rates, or "passing on my genes" are manosphere talking points. A suspect a lot of men here are highly influenced by that and more or less accept these talking points uncritically as part of hanging onto or taking back this masculine ideal. Starting with one child a woman's investment and risk is higher than the father's, and past 2 or 3 I think the gap widens. Bu…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 03:58 PM
6

I think we're talking about sexual selection, but that aside it's true that some people won't be selected. I'm not sure what if anything society should do to try to minimize how often this happens or to minimize the impact, but simply saying "life is unfair" dismisses any discussion.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/26 06:41 PM
2

Correct answer. Being generous TRP exists to help frustrated and angry or latently angry men, by TRP's admission and selling point.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/26 04:12 PM
5

This is a great point. Many times men have the seed of an idea worth exploring or even debating, but they bury it in extreme statements or pill rhetoric. Like this OP isn't that incendiary, but it's somewhat hot. This question will get pushback even if more nuanced, but this has a self pitying, defeatist and dramatic tone that drags responses toward that heat and makes it somewhat self fullfilling. It also invites more extreme takes from men. Everyone has their bias confirmed. I don't see these …
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/26 04:06 PM
–

Men and women question things we accepted with little or sometimes no thought in the past. If a young person or a young couple really stops to think about the financial, emotional, and social opportunity cost of having children it's daunting. And in indirect support of the OP's claim this broad cost is disproportionately born by women, whatevere their marital status.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/26 03:29 PM
–

Teen births have dropped off a cliff the last decade, but is it because there is better birth control now or because teens are having much less sex overall? The answer is probably yes. Both.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/26 03:14 PM
2

Are you mapping out a plan for your own sex/relationship tourism? Why do you care?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/26 03:08 PM
12

I think passport bros are kinda weird, but then I think women lying in bed doing TikTok videos are kinda weird but I feel no need to stop either.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/26 03:35 AM
1

It's not entitltled, but it is unrealistic.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/01/26 03:36 PM
1

What's coming through here is how strong your reaction to this is. I'm not much interested in hearing about a woman friend's sex life either but how I feel about these conversations is for me (you in your case) to work through.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/12/25 06:06 PM
9

Do they know you're sexually frustrated? If they do it's somewhat inconsiderate. If they don't know then it's on you to say something or grin and bear it. I see below that you have spoken up and you felt the friendship took a hit. Then they're not the right friend for you.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/12/25 05:35 PM
1

Do you have any actual evidence for your claim?
/r/PurplePillDebate31/12/25 04:08 PM
–

Sometimes the analogies used here are really strange, but I like this one. Well done.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/12/25 02:43 PM
–

Sometimes you have a decent point wrapped up in your acrid take, but this is acrid squared. What evidence is there that men who would like to be lusted after or highly valued or just greatly appreciated actually want to be worshipped. Even the men whose fear of being "provider" or "betabux" is way over done are just insecure and not grandiose. Are you OK?
/r/PurplePillDebate31/12/25 02:42 PM
7

You're safer with the bear though. Couldn't resist.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/25 10:00 PM
–

Perhaps she's not the one?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/25 07:45 PM
2

But when people suggest that a partner needs to be essentially perfect, as you're suggesting, it rings hollow for all the imperfect people who would like to have a relationship. It damages rather than advances the discussion. Now if you meant "perfect for you" that's still impossible but at least a bit relateable. That level of imprecise communication happens everyday and people get the intent. And in principle I agree with the idea you may have meant to express that people ought to think citica…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/25 06:58 PM
7

How does your advice translate to people with fewer options? That's most of us you know, men and women.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/25 04:17 PM
1

I don't know, being silly seems like something to believe in. Fervently.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/25 03:34 PM
5

There are also women who date or marry men and later come out as lesbians. It's a thing that happens?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/25 03:57 PM
1

Why?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/25 07:00 PM
1

For a lot of reasons that get beaten to death here many women tend to see a man and look for reasons to rule him out. Many men tend to see a woman and look for reasons to rule her in. I'm not suggesting either tendency is right or wrong, just that they exist and are fairly common. It's not that men don't have standards. It's that we tend to have fewer and to be at least a bit flexible on some. To rule women in. That may or may not serve men well, but it's the way a lot of men operate. I think wo…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/25 06:13 PM
4

Or limit how often you can swipe.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/25 03:11 PM
3

I thought tragedy of the commons, but you're right also.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/25 02:55 PM
1

There are simps in the imaginations of men who assume the man's kindness or effort toward a woman isn't returned. Then there are men the word applies to. Guys who do in fact put way effort into his partner than is returned, as well as men who put effort into women they're not in a relationship with. Misandry-No, but it's no compliment. See my first paragraph. Some men are bitter and feel any kindness or effort benefitting a woman is undeserved so the man being kind must be a simp.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/25 08:34 PM
–

Having watched the interactions here for a while I think you get push back on these examples from the "I won't be a beta bux" men because their fear of being settled for is at least partly projection. The woman they most desire probably won't want them in any scenario except one where they do pay pay. They see settling as getting together with a woman who is probably a good match for them, so they export their disdain for that prospect to women getting together with ordinary men. Your observatio…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/25 06:42 PM
–

A significant number of women show at least mild disdain for men's relatively easy or quick attraction. It's good when a woman likes a man. Then his desire is dependable. It's a nuisance or worse when she's not interested at all and within a relationship it can leave her wondering if he cares about her other than as a way to satisfy his desire. Both sexes could own our inability to fully accept how the other operates.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/25 05:25 PM
5

I believe that women and the OP quoting them are right that at least some men who are struggling struggle because they aren't adapting. For those men who could be attractive to some women with some changes in approach or viewpoint or behavior, the ball is in their court. Some men struggle due to things they can't control or adapt. That's always been true. But I don't think women are opting out of dating or relationships altogether because men are too short.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/25 10:13 PM
2

But not equally attracted. Men start out primed in most cases, and women not so much. So more women are attractive enough, but not all equally so.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/25 06:17 PM
3

Some men want to claim that we're equally attracted to a much wider range of women than women are attracted to men. For the most part we're not. Not equally. For nature and nurture reasons we have more stored up desire that creates feelings of attraction that are more easily sparked to flame than is the case for women. And once we're on fire, we're on fire, but if the women is really attractive she's more the cause than if she's moderately attractive. I suspect men and women are immediately attr…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/25 04:17 PM
11

A few young men seem to be clinging to a relationship model we've been evolving away from for decades. Or they're clinging to their imagined picture of that relationship model. They're over represented here, and in fact I never encounter young men talking about being providers or leaders by default in their own relationships IRL, and on here it's mostly men aspiring to that role rather than one's inhabiting it. Like it's their birthright. They're mostly SOL. As to the reason you stated for the s…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/25 03:57 PM
5

Apparently you're wrong and you don't need men. That message has been hammered into our consciousness for at least a decade now. Pay attention. /s
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/25 03:23 PM
1

Or just claiming he's sterile. That's a medical diagnosis and there would be some evidence that he had the vasectomy or was tested and shown to be sterile.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/25 03:15 PM
2

I agree regarding the pill. A woman saying she has an IUD or had her tubes tied if either is untrue would be relevant.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/25 03:03 PM
1

All good points. thanks for the input.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/25 06:03 PM
1

Thanks for responding. Those are all things everyone should consider before seeking a relationship, though the part about doing things that bring a smile to yopur partner's faced don't seem like a sacrifice, but part of the whole point.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/25 06:02 PM
2

Ideally no one truly settles, meaning no one gets into a relationship they don't see value in. Women with kids, and men with kids for that matter are wise to accept that finding that valuable relationship may be harder and take more time than if they were childless.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/25 04:50 PM
1

Good considerate analysis. One question. I think I know what you mean by "sacrifice" in your last paragraph, but can you elaborate on that. I ask because a lot of men here are on the defensive or feeling overwhelmed, and that comment without clarification may bring a response of "what's she sacrificing?"
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/25 04:47 PM
6

I haven't checked the OP's assertion about which posts were heavily upvoted, but if he's correct that the most upvoted responses said friends first is best and also deceptive and creepy, that's kinda confusing.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/25 03:17 PM
1

I suspect your comment that started this discussion was partly in jest but it makes a point. But to belabor it further, are you able to discern whether you might be interested in a man during your "meh" weeks? Enough to keep the social dance going?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/25 03:13 PM
–

So what changed? Why did past generations of boys learn something from the frequent contact with girls while the most recent hasn't?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/25 09:43 PM
–

It's not a double standard. Men's traits like extreme introversion or poor hygiene aren't often overlooked or "forgiven" by women. Women aren't being asked to be forgiven for their introversion or poor hygiene. Some men do that without being asked.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/25 05:33 PM
–

Why? I'm genuinely curious. Sex with a woman you don't feel much of a physical desire for, and if she has poor hygiene that sounds pretty gross, solves what aspect of being an incel?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/25 04:24 PM
–

I suspect that he means profit emotionally, like dunking on someone. I don't believe that and I think the advice to form as much of a social circle as you can is sound, but I think that's what he means.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/25 04:04 PM
–

I didn't downvote you because I don't downvote. But.... Seriously? Those things you do for yourselves make you more attractive, so even if you do it for yourself, it's false advertising. I'm not knocking things people do to feel more confident or to appear more attractive, but your stance is pretty hypocritical. Goose, gander.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/25 08:54 PM
–

He's definitely trying to hard.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/25 08:42 PM
10

I'm not responding to your specific comment but to the topic you're discussing with OP. Many men here think the disparity in attraction is looks based. I tend to think it's more about behavior and attitude/expectations the men engage in/have that are a turnoff or at least a mismatch for many women. What do you think?
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/25 07:32 PM
1

I know you're making a point, but in that spirit, you should do this and be prepared to date only; -Very traditional men -Men who will be a john until they get some nook and then book -Men who want to be a john indefinitely So all fine men. Good luck in your endeavors.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/25 05:47 PM
1

Often it's not jealousy so much as anger that his dating options are limited, and a pretty childish refusal to accept the reality that single mothers exist and refusing to consider dating them limits his options. A man who is adamantly opposed to dating a single mother is eliminating about 20-30% of women from his dating pool, depending on age and demographics. He could choose to date a single mother but it comes with challenges he legit may not want or be able to handle. That's part of the real…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/25 04:16 PM
2

Surely the impetus can matter. There are men in particular who see self improvement as a key that unlocks a door and behind the door are women who want him because he did X or Y. That's a mechanistic way to look at relationships, and indirectly a mechanistic way to look at women. That will come out in interactionsat some point, and probably sooner than later. It won't be appreciated. If a man's motivation is desperation born of a feeling or incompleteness, that too will likely come out and be re…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/25 03:57 PM
1

The purpose of allegory is to instruct. so was the "I pick the bear" allegory venting or instruction?
/r/PurplePillDebate12/12/25 09:57 PM
2

This is most relevant to men whose alternative is being alone. I'd choose alone in that scenario. I hope I would anyway.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/25 04:05 PM
1

Sure, especially if you're a mess. If someone can honestly look at you and say "the bad news is you're a mess. That's also the good news. The more observable things you can legitimately improve on the more you're results can improve. Now in this kind of case there may be a deeper issue like a mental health problem, but identifying that issue and treating it can be a gateway to big positive changes.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/12/25 09:09 PM
1

You're right about the apps design basically exploiting desperate men. And while the info is out there as to what indisciminant swiping does, people also know playing the lottery (abusing substances, ovedreating) is a losing game but some keep playing til it hurts. I wish information was power, but sometimes it's just an minor obstacle to feeding a need.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/12/25 09:05 PM
–

"How young of a woman can I date without it being seen as creepy" is only answerable by "The creep ship sailed and you're on it".
/r/PurplePillDebate03/12/25 03:36 PM
1

It's the crazy-hot matrix, but in this case it's the asshole-hot matrix. It's real and not changing, and more men and women fall prey to this dynamic than would like to admit.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/12/25 03:21 PM
1

What does "taking responsibility for your own desires" look like?
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/25 03:48 PM
3

I'm genuinely curious what you mean by "trying to do better"? I think a lot of men immediately assume those kind of statements either mean hitting the gym, making more money, or some other effort that they believe would get them dates, OR they assume they refer to cliches like "be yourself" or "look within". So what in your opinion does doing better look like? Better at what or in what way?
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/25 03:45 PM
1

A panda might be cool, though they're potentially dangerous. The thing is, if we acknowledge that bears are unlikely to interact with us, then a bear loses it's power in the scenario. It's kind of bad faith that way, which undermines the valid point women were trying to make.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/11/25 04:49 AM
–

I can explain it like I'm 5 but I doubt that will help. Cooties would feature prominently in the explanation.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/11/25 04:38 AM
-1

I have to agree with you Lilith. There's no logical explanation for not holding men accountable on this issue.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/11/25 11:08 PM
7

Assuming that it played out the way OP says, wouldn't women's varied tastes make more than one or two men attractive enough to get to know a little better, since they're there already?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/11/25 08:10 PM
2

So women should stop doing those things. I assume you're a woman. So stop doing those things.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/11/25 05:35 PM
1

Seems to me TRP appeals to men who are really socially challenged, usually with extreme appearance issues or extreme social issues, or enough of each to be a major challenge. Can TRP help those men?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/11/25 09:37 PM
2

I don't see things that way, but thanks for clarifying.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/11/25 04:07 PM
1

Assuming TRP had discovered the reality of female nature, what was the purpose of enlightening men on this reality?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/11/25 04:04 PM
26

Just curious. Why compare a male friend you're not attracted to with a morbidly obese woman who smells funny and is a stranger?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/11/25 03:52 PM
3

Yes
/r/PurplePillDebate22/11/25 04:17 PM
1

I don't have a problem with women preferring to be approached. Since that seems to be your preference, do you see approaching as emotional labor?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/11/25 10:55 PM
3

The term beta has too many weird connotations to be useful to me. But I think men who don't respect themselves are probably at least what some people mean by "beta". So a man who isn't very physically attractive or who is socially awkward (or both) isn't beta in my eyes. That man faces dating challenges others don't and his path in life is harder than a man who is attractive and poised. But he can still have self respect. And he deserves mine.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/11/25 10:28 PM
14

Having read current and some older threads, men here often undercut their own arguments. On a "we discovered the wheel and built Eifel Tower" level.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/11/25 10:16 PM
1

I get it on the one hand. But really, self respect is worth more than a piece of ass, and he has to know that's all she is to him, and he's even less to her.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/11/25 10:06 PM
5

I think non TRP people call doing those things out of fear dxesperate.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/11/25 05:44 PM
3

That's sad and embarrassing since it's so public.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/11/25 05:10 PM
2

Which is why being a betabux (what a term) is to be avoided.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/11/25 05:09 PM
2

I only know his story from googling it a few minutes ago, but she does sound awful. Was that clear before they married? Sounds like it wasn't. So how would TRP have protected him? Isn't it more the case that he should have seen that she's more attractive than him and wondered why they work together? Like thought critically about it. TRP has no corner on the common sense market.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/11/25 05:08 PM
4

Why do you think he puts up with it?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/11/25 04:53 PM
1

Well, I only know zero young men who went on shooting sprees. And maybe excess screen time and the crap content aimed at men who do voluntarily indulge has more of a negative impact on young men. As a separate issue and without judging the dating dynamic, maybe that dynamic typically requires more social skill from young men to get it started, so that's an additional challenge. And of course young men seem to desire young women more than vice versa, and that constant reality is lately laid bare.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/11/25 04:46 PM
3

Again, not something I think about a lot because the near horror story betabux stuff where the man thinks there's a genuine connection but there isn't is rare. But even if it's on the up and up and both parties know the deal, like you seem to be describing, would you want that for a male friend, brother, or son?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/11/25 04:41 PM
3

I too was going to ask for a definition.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/11/25 03:33 PM
3

You're right about men but we're taught, often in harsh ways to ignore or suppress our emotions. So it's no surprise when we do.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/11/25 06:49 PM
2

I agree. Even more extreme statements would start to make sense if men prefaced them with "I feel/I feel like" or "it seems/feels as if". I feel subhuman. It seems like it's over for me, and so on.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/11/25 06:13 PM
1

Ultimately, men are responsible for their behavior and their words. But modern dating in particular is almost designed to cause frustration. Repeated frustration leads to feeling helpless, helplessness leads to shame, and shame leads to anger directed inward and outward. It's not my experience, but don't you think frequent or routine rejection often feels like being treated like shit?
/r/PurplePillDebate20/11/25 05:50 PM
2

I think some men do grasp what you're saying, but are not willing to do what you suggest. I suspect some of those men are struggling to adjust, but in a few years they'll either adapt as you describe it, or they will get comfortable with having fewer, but better (more compatible) options.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/25 03:24 PM
1

What traits are you defining as masculine, OP?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/25 03:15 PM
1

Childlike is open to wide interpretation. What do you consider childlike?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/25 03:11 PM
3

Nothing beats a woman's laugh. Well if it's at my expense maybe not.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/11/25 09:14 PM
7

Like we need something like a carfax service to evaluate women. Much sarcasm. I'm older and I never encountered a functioning adult male peer expressing stuff like this 20 years ago. Maybe they existed but didn't say this out loud?
/r/PurplePillDebate13/11/25 03:26 PM
4

Weird take, but then that seems to be the norm here. To respond: Most people, men and women, have past partners and off line and especially away from this sub the vast majority of men don't care. We may not want to know details, but were pretty much thinking about the present. Assumes incorrectly that most men have wealth and that it significantly exceeds the woman their with. Again assumes facts not in evidence re wealth and while these men exist, they're not that common. While forever alone pe…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/11/25 03:21 PM
–

Sex with the guy who provides ugly males? I'm confused.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/11/25 10:39 PM
2

I tend to agree and I don't know where this discussion goes that's worth the trip. But, if men typically put more effort, mostly emotional effort and vulnerability, into the approach phase and then things ideally even out, aren't women who want to claim relationship effort is a heavy burden for them wrong?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/25 07:09 PM
6

Aren't men mirroring those efforts?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/25 04:57 PM
4

I'm male and I did it for most of 20 years. What else ya got?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/25 04:58 AM
10

Not the woman's problem if he does.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/25 08:30 PM
2

Spending a week there almost broke me.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/25 08:24 PM
1

Blonde, but too American.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/25 07:04 PM
5

He needs more keyboard time too with all that nuance.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/25 06:49 PM
-1

All of the school shooters? And even if that were true, almost all school shooters have been male, but not all males are school shooters. And could the way we treat people who are neurodivergent contribute to their acting out when they do, and confound the link to whatever extent it may exist?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/25 06:43 PM
6

You're right that the OP attacked a group of people in an effort to emphasize just how bad some behavior or mindsets are. It's hard to pass up an opportunity to dump on people with autism, though. We can't really expect people to avoid using negative stereotypes to marginalize people, can we?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/25 06:39 PM
-1

You don't think the OP labeling shitty behavior or shitty mindset as autistic is a shitty, ableist take? You know, demeaning to people with autism?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/25 06:32 PM
9

The irony of you claiming that some repetitive behavior is draining is ironic.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/25 03:48 PM
8

Congrats on the "ex" part.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/25 03:43 PM
1

So maybe the hierarchy is the problem.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/11/25 11:56 PM
1

I think tghere's strong evidence from women's comments here and elsewhere that men who are comfortable in their own skin are at least more attractive than those who aren't self assured. I don't think that's what the OP is suggesting, but I think it's serendipitously related to his "ask".
/r/PurplePillDebate07/11/25 09:35 PM
1

You sound like you need the hierarrchy for you to feel good about things.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/11/25 09:31 PM
4

It's called "social role valorization" in the social service world. The idea is that putting people in roles that are themselves valued or seen positively reflects well on the person. For example, we tend to value work so seeing someone with an obvious disability working casts them in a better, more completely human light. If something like that for men we see as social "losers" is what the OP has in mind (I'm not convinced it is) then he's on to something.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/11/25 04:18 PM
2

Not my deal, but whay not use words?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/11/25 10:16 PM
–

If you seldom get fired at you might learn to love the bullet. .
/r/PurplePillDebate06/11/25 06:22 PM
–

This seems unnecessarilly jablike, but I do think men going on about being settled for are betrying their belief that they settled for a woman, and they aren't pleased with their choice.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/11/25 05:52 PM
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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