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View 1 post and 524 comments by Waleis on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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Upvotes Title Category Author Subreddit Date (UTC)
32

DiscussionWaleis/r/PurplePillDebate22/10/17 11:39 PM
Upvotes Comment on Subreddit Date (UTC)
1

Thanks, I appreciate the compliment!
/r/PurplePillDebate03/11/17 03:11 AM
1

Dressing well is not the same as preying on a person's insecurities and emotional vulnerability. There are many obvious reasons for this. One reason is the simple fact that men are expecting women to dress well, so they're prepared for it. Women are NOT expecting men to psychopathically manipulate them, so women generally are not prepared for this behavior.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 03:03 PM
1

Dressing well is not the same as preying on a person's insecurities and emotional vulnerability. There are many obvious reasons for this. One reason is the simple fact that men are expecting women to dress well, so they're prepared for it. Women are NOT expecting men to psychopathically manipulate them, so women generally are not prepared for this behavior.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 03:03 PM
1

And once again, you haven't addressed anything I said. If you won't blame the victim when physical force is involved, why would you blame the victim when manipulation is involved? Both are attempts to subvert informed consent. It's a very simple question.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 03:01 PM
1

And once again, you haven't addressed anything I said. If you won't blame the victim when physical force is involved, why would you blame the victim when manipulation is involved? Both are attempts to subvert informed consent. It's a very simple question.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 02:59 PM
1

If you don't understand what words mean, then this discussion becomes impossible.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 02:49 PM
1

Thank you, I appreciate it.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 02:48 PM
1

I'm not saying my morality system is better than yours. I want to know how you justify your own behavior to yourself.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 02:47 PM
1

What's your argument?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 02:46 PM
1

You don't care about bigotry towards women? Okay. I no longer have any interest in talking with you.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 02:45 PM
1

Okay, lets assume in your example that physical danger is irrelevant. Politeness is a commonly accepted, and expected societal norm. If the woman told him, "You're ugly and have a bad personality," she wouldn't simply be hurting his feelings, she would also be violating common codes of basic human decency. What outcome would the man prefer? The vast, overwhelming majority of men would prefer to NOT be told they're ugly and have a bad personality, unless they're specifically asking for brutal hon…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 02:43 PM
1

And once again, I'm not saying that morality is objective. I'm asking you, according to your personal moral code, how do you morally distinguish yourself from a rapist? And before you say, "I don't have a moral code," if you believe that some things are better than others, then you have a moral code.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 02:33 PM
1

So you literally can't tell the difference between persuasion and manipulation? Do I have to explain to you how manipulation has a NEGATIVE connotation, and persuasion doesn't?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 02:28 PM
1

Negging is one example of Red Pill being used to trick women into having sex with you through the exploitation of emotional vulnerability.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 02:27 PM
1

You didn't address anything I said. Once again, if you won't blame the victim when physical force is involved, WHY would you blame the victim when manipulation is involved? Explain that to me.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 02:25 PM
1

Persuasion is open and honest. Manipulation is deceitful. When a doctor persuades you to have healthy habits, they aren't deceiving you. But then again, you KNOW the difference between persuasion and manipulation. So the only conclusion I can draw here is that you're deliberately trying to derail the conversation.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 02:16 PM
1

So you're saying that it's acceptable for men to use dread game, because women use it? Even if a majority of women used dread game, that wouldn't change the fact that it's wrong to emotionally manipulate your partner.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 02:12 PM
1

So your argument is that psychopathic manipulation is acceptable because it works. Even if that were true, that wouldn't change the fact that psychopathic manipulation to trick women into having sex with you is morally wrong. Also, it's worth mentioning that you are not entitled to sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 02:11 PM
1

All goodness is based on empathy, because you only have motivation to treat strangers well if you possess empathy. Psychopathy implies a total lack of empathy, which is why it's inherently evil.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 02:03 PM
1

How can you become a more valuable person in society, by needlessly harming people? That's ridiculous. red Pill isn't about becoming more valuable to society, it's about becoming a dead weight dragging society down. the absolute last thing society needs right now, is more manipulative psychopaths.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 02:00 PM
1

Okay, lets compare the two scenarios. In the scenario you present, you're assuming that it's not physically dangerous for women to behave the way you think they should. Telling a man in a bar that he's ugly and a bad person, rather than being polite, is a good way to start an altercation. It's common for men in such situations to harass, stalk, and even assault women who spurn them in such a humiliating way. So, right off the bat we can dismiss your claim that it's somehow unjustified for the wo…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 01:39 PM
1

I'm not making an appeal to the majority. I'm saying that one difference between makeup and psychopathic manipulation, is that makeup is expected and assumed, while psychopathic manipulation is not.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 01:25 PM
1

You ignored my entire argument for why manipulation is wrong. My argument was that it's wrong to blame the victim for being manipulated, because manipulation alters a person's ability to make informed and rational decisions. Manipulation undercuts informed consent, the same way physical force does. So if you won't blame the victim when physical force is involved, WHY would you blame the victim when manipulation is involved?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 01:23 PM
1

The vast, overwhelming majority of men expect women to wear makeup. And surely you're at least AWARE of the fact that most women wear makeup, right? So my argument stands. Men are not surprised when they see a woman wearing makeup. If you feel manipulated when you see a woman wearing makeup, what is your alternative? Are you now going to expect women to never wear nice clothes or maintain basic hygiene? Have you thought through any of this at all?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 01:17 PM
1

In the example you gave, the intent of the woman was positive (trying not to hurt his feelings), and no one was harmed as a result. The "manipulation" was well intended and hurt no one. Using manipulation to trick a woman into having sex with you, on the other hand, is done with a negative intent and it psychologically harms the woman as well. the fact that you can't discern between the two, tells me that you've been spending far too much time on Red Pill.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 01:14 PM
1

Society expects women to wear makeup. Men know this and EXPECT this, whereas women do NOT know or expect men to prey on them through psychopathic manipulation. Also, the intent is wildly different. Makeup is an honest attempt to appear more attractive. Psychopathic manipulation is a dishonest attempt to deliberately coerce someone into sex. Also, I feel like pointing out the fact that the difference between makeup and psychopathic manipulation are so extraordinarily obvious the only conclusion I…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 01:07 PM
1

You said my statement was untrue, without explaining why. So because you chose not to explain why, I assumed you were suggesting that sane people don't commit murder. If you disagree with me on something, you should explain why or else misunderstandings will happen. I still have no idea why you said my earlier statement was untrue, by the way.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:57 PM
2

Explain to me why I'm wrong.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:56 PM
1

Do you have a counter argument?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:55 PM
1

I never said everyone had to have the exact moral framework that I have. I am, however, assuming that because we're both sane human beings we will probably agree on the very basics of morality. If you don't agree that reducing the "informed" part of informed consent moves it closer to rape, then you should explain why. Because as it stands right now, you seem to be suggesting that the legal system is the sole basis for a moral framework, which is absurd.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:52 PM
1

I use the term "common humanity" because we're both human beings. And I say "inherently good," merely to say that something is good regardless of context. I'm not implying an objective morality. And when I say "acceptable" I mean "morally acceptable." I'm assuming you agree that it's morally wrong to needlessly hurt people, right? And concerning consent, your view of consent as binary only makes sense in a legal context. I'm not talking about legality, I'm talking about morality. You keep weasel…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:48 PM
1

Okay, but WHY is it untrue? Sane people commit murder all the time, just as psychopaths do. You don't have to be "crazy" to commit murder.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:40 PM
2

When you betray a person's trust, you cause psychological harm. Negging constitutes a betrayal of trust, because the vast majority of people trust you to not manipulate them. Dread game constitutes a betrayal of trust, because your partner trusts you to not manipulate them. When you betray a person's trust, especially in the realm of romance and sex, it can cause lasting psychological damage.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:39 PM
1

Lying to get a woman to sleep with you is harmful manipulation, and lying to someone about STD's is ALSO harmful manipulation. Morally the difference is one of degrees, not quality.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:35 PM
1

What you're describing is called "politeness." Using deceit and manipulation to trick a woman into having sex with you, is not on the same level as being polite to someone. The fact that I have to spell this out for you shocks me.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:33 PM
1

You're suddenly speaking in legal terms for some reason, when I'm trying to engage you on a moral level. Morally, there IS such a thing as "closer to rape." The less informed the informed consent is, the closer to rape it becomes. And manipulation deliberately attacks the "informed" part of informed consent.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:32 PM
1

Okay. What's your point?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:28 PM
1

The difference is quantitative, NOT qualitative. I'm using a slightly extreme example to make a point.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:27 PM
2

Exactly. Normal people don't behave particularly badly, most of the time. So your excuse that it's okay for you to hurt people because most people are awful, is wrong.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:26 PM
1

Murders implies intent. Otherwise it wouldn't be called "murder."
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:25 PM
1

Oh, so you're looking for social skills and being sexually successful...well there are plenty of non-misogynist places you can go online. The vast majority of places you can go for this, in fact, aren't misogynist. So, why on earth would you consciously choose a place which encourages misogyny, when you have literally everywhere else to go? Also, your argument that Red Pill is mostly about "self improvement" is fundamentally flawed, because the PRIMARY reason men go to Red Pill in the first plac…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:05 PM
1

So it's okay for Red Pillers to harm women, because eventually they "settle down." Okay, the idea that they eventually "settle down" doesn't in any way excuse their earlier harmful behavior.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:00 PM
1

Okay, lets assume that the rapist gains something from raping that person, and lets assume the rapist suffers no consequences (most rapists are never caught, after all), in that situation, what's the moral difference between you and a rapist?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 11:55 AM
1

Telling someone you don't have an STD, and then having sex with them, is manipulation. They manipulated you, by making you believe they didn't have an STD. So, if it's wrong for someone to manipulate you, why is it okay for you to manipulate someone else?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 11:17 AM
2

The vast overwhelming majority of people aren't manipulative monsters, at least, not to the same degree Red Pillers are. Also, even if most people were manipulators, how would that excuse YOUR manipulative behavior? Just because there are bad people in the world, that doesn't mean you can behave badly too. I mean, ISIS cuts people's heads off in the Middle East....does that mean it's acceptable for YOU to cut people's heads off? Obviously not.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 11:14 AM
2

If you're sane and you murder someone, that's the exact same thing as murdering someone if you're a psychopath. What matters are your ACTIONS. And Red Pill encourages psychopathic actions. Whether or not the person carrying out those psychopathic actions is a clinical psychopath is irrelevant.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 11:12 AM
1

Why is that a stretch?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 11:10 AM
1

To have sex you need informed consent. A woman can agree to sex, but if her consent isn't informed, then it's rape. For example, if a blind woman has sex with a man impersonating her husband, that's actually rape because she can't give INFORMED consent in that situation. When you Red Pillers manipulate a woman for sex, you're deliberately attacking the "informed" part of informed consent. The more manipulation involved, the closer it gets to rape. So, just because a woman agrees to have sex with…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 11:04 AM
2

Okay, what's the MORAL difference between you and a rapist, if you believe that harming others is okay if you get something out of it?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 11:01 AM
1

If your point is that morality is subjective, well I have no idea why you'd make that point because I never suggested that morality was objective. What I believe is that, despite the fact that morality is subjective, we have enough common humanity to be able to find common ground despite the subjectivity of the topic. back to the subject at hand, Red Pill encourages people to use manipulation to trick women into having sex with them. Negging is one example of this. Now, you could say that as lon…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 10:58 AM
2

So you're saying it's okay to harm people, if you get something out of it? Okay. So, what's the difference between you and a rapist?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 10:51 AM
1

Lets use an example here. If you use negging to prey on a woman's insecurities to get her to try to appease you, with the ultimate goal of getting her to have sex with you, and she suffers psychological damage as a result of being used in such an awful way, wouldn't you consider that to be a bad thing to do? Wouldn't you regret doing it?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 10:47 AM
2

So, if you wouldn't needlessly cause harm to that person, WHY would you needlessly harm emotionally vulnerable women? What's the difference?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 10:44 AM
1

Just because a thing is legal, that doesn't in any way imply that it is right or good. Slavery was legal, for example. I'm not sure why you're bringing up legality. It may be legal for you to prey on emotionally vulnerable women for your own amusement, but that doesn't mean it's in any way a good thing to do. And if you DO believe it's good to prey on emotionally vulnerable women, I'd like to know why. And to reiterate: Just because you CAN do something, that doesn't mean you SHOULD.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 10:42 AM
2

Sure, there are instances where it's necessary to harm people, like when you're fighting Nazis. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about causing harm, in general. For example, if you could treat a random human being any way you wanted to without suffering any repercussions, would you choose to hurt them? Why or why not?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 10:34 AM
2

Why is it not wrong to cause harm to people?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 10:09 AM
1

Placing blame where it properly belongs (on predators rather than victims) does NOT weaken the victims. Deluding yourself that you're to blame for what's been done to you, THAT'S what weakens people. When a woman blames herself for the fact that she was raped, she is not empowering herself. You don't empower someone by blaming them for the oppression they experience, you empower people by directing their rage in the proper direction. Victim blaming is a powerful tool used by oppressors throughou…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 09:59 AM
1

Makeup is not the same thing as preying on a woman's emotional vulnerabilities for your own personal gain. If you're going to say that makeup is "manipulation" then manipulation is literally everything everyone does and the word becomes meaningless. So lets not abuse the definitions of words for ideological points, all that does is make this conversation more difficult for both of us.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 09:43 AM
1

So you're saying that the idea that needlessly harming people is bad, is itself harmful?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 09:38 AM
1

Sorry about that. In my experience arguing with Red Pillers they quite often like to argue semantics about the meaning of manipulation, so I thought I'd include the word "maliciously" so we could avoid quibbling over the precise meaning of "manipulation."
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 09:37 AM
1

There's a qualitative difference between healthy sex based on informed consent, and sex that's a result of deceit and manipulation. The difference is that the first causes no harm, and the second does cause harm.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 09:35 AM
1

Oppressive systems arise through the ideological influence of very tiny cabals of wealthy people, who are overwhelmingly biased (as a result of owning too much wealth) in favor of themselves. This isn't a critique of human nature, this is a critique of excessive wealth being held in too few hands. And concerning your other point, you see nothing wrong with manipulating emotionally vulnerable women? This means that you see no problem with causing psychological harm to other people. When people ta…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 09:33 AM
1

The reason I'm so angry about your victim blaming mentality, is because it causes serious and tangible harm to people in the real world. People use your exact logic to blame rape victims for being raped. People use your exact logic to blame poor people for being poor. People use your exact logic to blame domestic abuse victims. And what happens when these victims are blamed? Society uses that blame to avoid addressing those problems in meaningful ways. One of the first steps in solving these pro…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 09:29 AM
1

So, if it's wrong to rape someone even if you've been raped, then it's also wrong to maliciously manipulate someone even if you yourself have been manipulated.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 09:24 AM
1

My point is that it's wrong to rape someone, even if you yourself have been raped. And yes, I understand morality is subjective. But presumably you believe that some actions are better than others, which would imply that you have an opinion on rape. So, in your personal opinion, is it morally acceptable to rape someone after you've been raped?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 09:07 AM
1

First of all, Antifa typically believe that most people are good, or at the very least neutral. They believe it's systems of oppression which cause people to behave in bad ways, not human nature. Also, you're saying that manipulation is acceptable. Would you say that manipulating an emotionally vulnerable women into having sex with you is acceptable?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 08:59 AM
1

So you're saying that it's morally acceptable to rape people, if you've been raped?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 08:54 AM
1

There is no such thing as "BP beliefs" because Blue Pill encompasses literally everyone who isn't a psychopathic manipulator of women. The only beliefs that unite Blue Pillers, is the idea that needlessly harming other people is wrong.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 08:49 AM
1

Lets say you go through your whole life without raping anyone. And then someone rapes you. Does that mean it's suddenly magically acceptable for you to start raping people? Obviously not.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 08:47 AM
1

If what you're saying is true, why is it that most people DON'T think the world is populated by amoral manipulative monsters? Why do you think it's just bigots and Red Pillers and Alt Right Fascists that think this stuff? Why is it always people who support harming others, that think everyone is out to harm them? It's like how cheaters believe most other people are cheaters too. That belief exists SOLELY as an excuse for their own harmful behavior. It's also worth mentioning here, that even if y…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 08:45 AM
1

The fact that Red Pill is amoral, doesn't get it off the hook. If an ideology directly and needlessly causes harm to people, then it's an ideology that should be fought against. If an ideology is predicated on sexism and misogyny, then that ideology should be fought against. If an ideology actively enables and encourages people to take advantage of emotionally vulnerable women, then that ideology should be fought against. Why should you care? You should care because Red Pill is actively causing …
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 08:37 AM
2

So you disagree with the idea that causing harm is bad?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 08:29 AM
1

My argument is that people want to be treated well, therefore they will also treat other people well in an attempt to make that a reality. You don't want to be manipulated? Good. Then don't manipulate people.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 08:29 AM
0

Again, if everyone you know is a monster, the problem is you. Either you yourself are being treated poorly because you're a genuinely bad person, OR you're surrounding yourself with bad people. The solution isn't to become an evil person yourself. The solution is to either treat people better, or surround yourself with a new group of people. The fact is, the more time you spend on Red Pill, the more evil you will perceive the world to be. This is because Red Pill's internal consistency is predic…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 08:27 AM
1

As you yourself said, Red Pill can be used to be evil, to lie, and to cheat. Why would you ever associate yourself with an ideology that openly supports such things? The problem with Red Pill isn't just that it's psychopathic. The problem is that Red Pill mixes in good advice alongside the psychopathy and evil, which makes otherwise awful ideas more palatable. This is especially nefarious when you consider the extraordinary damage that the Red Pill cult does to disaffected teenage boys who don't…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 08:22 AM
0

If everyone you've ever known has treated you poorly, maybe the problem is you?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 08:07 AM
1

First of all, I'm assuming that because we're both human beings, we have somewhat similar views on the idea that good things should be aspired to, and bad things should be avoided. If you believe the opposite, I'd love to hear why. Also, how does my logic imply that it's okay to manipulate women? I'm arguing that just because other people behave badly, that's no excuse for you to contribute to the problem by behaving badly yourself.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 07:51 AM
2

The fact is, your personal attitude has zero bearing on whether or not you've been a victim of something. If someone manipulates and tricks someone into having sex, the SOLE responsibility for that is the predator, not the prey. The reason for this, is the fact that people cannot be reasonably expected to be emotionally immune to manipulation 100% of the time. And because we cannot expect people to be emotionally immune to manipulation 100% of the time, it follows that we CANNOT blame people whe…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 07:48 AM
1

You know what "inherently good" means. It means that you consider something to be fundamentally and morally positive. Also, it's worth mentioning that most people AREN'T amoral hypocritical monsters. If you left Red Pill and stopped surrounding yourself with psychopathic manipulators, you'd see that most people are trying, sometimes in flawed ways, to be good people.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 07:40 AM
1

STD's cause physical damage. Emotional manipulation causes psychological damage. The fact that what you do causes psychological damage, doesn't change the fact that it's still damage.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 07:36 AM
2

You know what the word "bad" means. Also, you're shifting the argument unnecessarily. You implied that it's okay to manipulate women because people are manipulative. I'm asking you to defend that statement. The obvious issue with that statement, is that it's never acceptable to respond to a problem by actively making it even worse.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 07:34 AM
1

Red Pill isn't about "evening a balance." Red Pill is solely about manipulating women into having sex with you. Red Pill is predicated on tricking and deceiving women, at their expense. Lets say, purely for the sake of argument, that all women are evil manipulators trying to oppress men. This would NOT imply that it's acceptable for men to contribute to the problem by becoming evil manipulators themselves. The solution to people being evil, is NOT to become evil yourself. Red Pill isn't about cr…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 07:31 AM
1

Morality for the overwhelming majority of people is based on the question, "How do I want other people to treat me?" People don't want to be treated poorly themselves, and they don't want to be hypocrites, so most people most of the time apply the same rules to themselves that they do to others. I don't want to be murdered, therefore I shouldn't murder people. If you consider Red Pill tactics to be in your rational self interest, and you consider rational self interest to be good, my retort woul…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 07:23 AM
2

Okay, you're arguing that because some people are bad, that means you should be bad too? I think it's pretty obvious why that reasoning is absurd.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 07:12 AM
1

Okay, so you're saying that morality is subjective, as if that somehow discredits my argument. If you agree that some actions are better than others, then you believe in good and evil. And if you believe in good and evil, you also ought to aspire to being good as opposed to evil because you don't want evil things to be done to YOU, do you? Now, you could say that you WANT to be evil and actively make the world a worse place, in which case I would ask, why?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 07:07 AM
1

So lets say you go to buy a car. The dealer tricks you into buying a shitty car through psychological tricks and emotional manipulation. Is it your fault that you were tricked? Of course not. Your "always blame the victim" mentality isn't just horrendously cruel, it's also deeply irrational. After all, a person cannot be blamed for making a poor decision when they've been MANIPULATED into making that poor decision (unless they themselves have caused harm to others). The reason for this, is the f…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 06:53 AM
1

The fact that SOME women are manipulative, does NOT mean you can engage in that behavior as well. But that's beside the point. You admit that most women do not expect men to psychopathically manipulate them into having sex. This means that manipulating women into having sex, is NOT on the same moral level as wearing makeup. Also, there's the fact that manipulating women into sex, causes serious psychological damage. A woman can feel utterly violated when she realizes she's been tricked into havi…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 06:31 AM
2

So what if some guy rapes you, despite your "powerful" mindset? Does the fact that you had a "powerful" mindset mean you aren't a victim? Of course not. Your perception of victimhood may be relevant TO YOU PERSONALLY, but it's completely irrelevant when applied to other people, because you don't get to decide for other people whether or not they've been victimized. Your "mind over matter" attitude is very in keeping with New Age woo ideals, and is very reminiscent of the book The Secret. It's a …
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 05:44 AM
1

You know exactly what you're doing, and I'm not playing along. Goodbye.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 05:37 AM
1

You're trying to get me to play your little game, by questioning my sanity. That's manipulation and gaslighting. But then again, why am I explaining this to you? You know exactly what you're doing.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 05:30 AM
1

I think it's ironic that you spend all this time trying to explain to me how your actions are harmless and aren't manipulative, and then you immediately turn around and try to manipulate me by questioning my sanity. It's almost like you're every bit as awful as I thought you were.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 05:23 AM
1

I'm not going to reply either way, because if I say I have a mental illness you'll use that as "evidence" that I'm wrong, and if I say that I'm NOT mentally ill, you simply won't believe me. So, I refuse to play into your gaslighting game.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 05:17 AM
1

It's not "just advice." It's not harmless. Red Pillers actively cause serious psychological harm to other people as a direct result of the tactics they use. In addition to this, Red Pill subtly encourages sexism and misogyny which is NOT harmless. People learn from Red Pill that being a misogynistic predator is somehow acceptable.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 05:11 AM
1

I'm not saying Red Pillers are clinical psychopaths. I'm saying their IDEOLOGY is psychopathic.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 05:04 AM
1

You're not trying to gaslight me? Trying to make someone feel crazy so you can manipulate their opinion is the very definition of gaslighting.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 05:01 AM
1

I think you don't consider yourself a victim because you never felt physically threatened by their behavior. If it were a male masseuse who touched you, or males at the bar groping you, you would certainly feel VERY differently about it. When a woman is groped by a male masseuse, she genuinely doesn't know if she's going to be raped or not. When YOU are groped by a female masseuse, you are certain she isn't going to rape you because there is a difference in power in your favor.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 04:59 AM
1

You're gaslighting me. You Red Pillers are monsters.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 04:53 AM
1

If you think I'm too "crazy" to debate, then why are you still talking to me? And honestly, being accused of mental illness by someone who believes that the predatory manipulation of women for sex is a good thing, I think you may want to look in the mirror.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 04:47 AM
1

Now you're trolling me again.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 04:44 AM
1

Negging isn't a neutral tactic, because it's predicated on exploiting emotional vulnerability for your own personal gain. If you can't see how it's wrong to exploit other people's weakness for your own personal gain, then we don't have a common moral framework from which to progress.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 04:43 AM
1

Are you suggesting that women enjoy being manipulated?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 04:40 AM
1

There's nothing wrong with trying to have sex. There IS something wrong with deliberately using psychopathic manipulation to take advantage of emotionally vulnerable women for your own benefit, which is what Red Pill is. Honestly, have you read the things people post on Red Pill? It's almost uniformly predatory. They don't even see women as human beings. They routinely talk about how awful women are (whereas men are supposedly paragons of virtue) and how men are "forced" to use evil tactics beca…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 04:39 AM
1

What you're suggesting here is that women are turned on by being openly manipulated by their spouses. You do realize that women are human beings too? And human beings DON'T like being manipulated?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 04:34 AM
1

When I refer to negging, I'm not referring to light hearted jabs. I'm referring to the tactic Red Pillers themselves admit to using in an attempt to prey on a woman's insecurities. And you're utterly incorrect about dread game. The entire purpose of dread game is to cajole your wife into having sex with you, NOT getting her to WANT to have sex with you. After all, how is flirting with other women in front of your wife supposed to make her WANT to have sex with you? If anything, all it will do is…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 04:26 AM
1

Negging on it's own isn't enough, but it's just one predatory weapon in an arsenal of deceit which Red Pillers use to manipulate others for their own personal gain, at the direct expense of others.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 04:22 AM
1

It's not your fault for falling prey to someone else's predatory behavior, because people can't be expected to be emotionally strong all the time. Whether that behavior is life threatening or merely manipulative, doesn't matter. The problem isn't that you have emotional vulnerability, the problem is that the OTHER person is a Red Pill psychopath. When you literally blame the victim, you create excuses for YOUR predatory behavior. It's a cowardly and repulsive effort to avoid taking responsibilit…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 04:20 AM
1

Negging works because emotionally vulnerable women want to please people. When you insult her appearance, she feels a need to prove that she's worthy to you in some way, because (for better or for worse) she cares about your opinion. In practice, negging has nothing to do with making yourself appear to be "worth more." It's a predatory behavior predicated on the exploitation of emotional vulnerability.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 04:14 AM
1

When you neg someone, you prey on their emotional vulnerabilities. the vast majority of women trust men to NOT prey on their emotional vulnerabilities. This constitutes a major betrayal of trust. Also, do you even know what dread game is? The entire PURPOSE of dread game is to get your spouse to have sex with you when they don't want to.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 04:11 AM
1

It would be your fault? What if someone robbed you at gunpoint. Would it be your fault for not having a gun of your own? Come on. This attitude that everyone deserves every bad that that's done to them is insane right wing garbage. If people deserve to be victimized because of their own weakness, then what's to stop you from feeling righteous when you victimize someone else? And concerning negging, negging works on emotionally vulnerable women. The sole purpose of negging is to cajole emotionall…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 04:08 AM
1

Negging is a betrayal of a person's trust, because they trust that you aren't psychopathically manipulating them. dread game is a betrayal of trust, because you're deliberately tricking your partner into sex she doesn't want.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 04:01 AM
1

Okay, so you're saying that betraying a person's trust, doesn't cause psychological harm?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 03:58 AM
1

If makeup is deception, then so is literally everything people do to appear attractive. If makeup is deception, then the word "deception" becomes meaningless. When I use the word "deception" I'm assuming there is negative intent, because that's colloquially implied by the word. Makeup is not used with negative intent. Negging IS used with negative intent. The same is true of false compliments when they're used with the specific intent of tricking a woman into sleeping with you. once again, I'd l…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 03:56 AM
1

But are those tactics manipulative? Exercising, showering, and dressing well are not manipulative because they're merely attempts to appear more attractive without the intent to deceive. Red Pill tactics are used SPECIFICALLY with the intent to deceive. That's the difference.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 03:48 AM
2

Okay, lets use a more extreme example. If a person raped you as a result of manipulation and trickery, would you blame yourself for being manipulated and tricked by them? Also, once again, I don't agree that Red Pill "works," because it only works on emotionally vulnerable women.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 03:45 AM
1

Okay, then you ALSO agree that negging and dread game are bad, because they cause psychological harm. And if negging and dread game are bad, then so is Red Pill for promoting those tactics.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 03:43 AM
1

That's feminism. Feminism is solely about equality between the genders. The only people who say otherwise are people like Red Pillers who are obsessed with oppressing women. because the truth is, they don't want an equal playing field, do they? They don't want fairness. They want domination over women, and they're willing to become evil people to make that happen.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 03:42 AM
1

The issue here is that makeup is not used in a predatory way. Negging IS used in a predatory way. You're saying that makeup and negging are the same thing, when the truth is that one is an attempt to appear attractive, and the other is an attempt to prey on a woman's insecurities WITH THE EXPRESS INTENT of tricking her. Makeup is not used with the intent of manipulating or deceiving people, unless you view dressing well and showering to be manipulation.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 03:39 AM
1

What's the difference between a person who does bad things because they're naturally bad, and a person who does bad things because they learned them from Red Pill?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 03:36 AM
2

If you agree that deliberate harm is worse than accidental harm, then you also agree that deliberately giving someone an STD is a bad thing. And if you agree that deliberately giving a someone an STD is bad, then you ALSO agree that deliberately causing psychological damage is bad.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 03:33 AM
1

Purely for the sake of argument, lets say you're right and women always have sex with bad people rather than good people. How is that an excuse for predatory behavior? Just because bad people exist, that doesn't mean it's acceptable for you to actively make the world a worse place.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 03:28 AM
1

Do you consider it to be worse for someone to deliberately harm you, than to accidentally harm you? For example, is murder worse than manslaughter?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 03:25 AM
2

My problem with negging is when it is used specifically to prey on a woman's insecurities, NOT when it is used for light hearted fun. And concerning dread game, her not wanting to have sex with you is a FUNDAMENTAL aspect of dread game. If she wanted to have sex with you, you wouldn't have used dread game in the first place. (when I say "you" here I'm not referring to you specifically, I'm referring to Red Pillers in general).
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 03:24 AM
2

Okay, the difference is that in the example I gave the man gets in STD as a result of sex, and with Red Pill men cause women serious psychological damage as a result of sex. The difference is that my example was slightly more extreme, but they're on the same spectrum of "causing harm through sex."
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 03:20 AM
1

Red Pill causes men to become psychopathic manipulators. Women aren't at fault here, unless you're arguing that all women are always evil.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 03:17 AM
1

The problem is the part where you say, "and maintains their needs as the number one priority." For most people, there are plenty of things that are on the same level as themselves. For example, lots of people would sacrifice their lives for a loved one. In fact, there are plenty of people out there who would sacrifice their lives for total strangers. This idea that everyone MUST be fundamentally selfish, is itself the primary problem. If everyone thought the way Red Pillers thought, the world wo…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 03:16 AM
2

Once again, you're arguing that it's okay to use psychopathic tactics because they supposedly work. That's blaming the victim. People are often susceptible to fraud. Does that mean it's their fault when they're taken advantage of? Obviously not.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 03:11 AM
1

So you see no difference between someone accidentally giving you an STD, and someone deliberately giving you an STD?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 03:08 AM
2

Negging is the act of deliberately preying on a woman's insecurities to have sex with her. the fact that you don't see how this is harmful shocks me. I mean, how would YOU feel if someone did that to you? And dread game is the act of emotionally manipulating your partner to have sex with you when she DOESN'T WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU. How can you argue that it's okay to have sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with you?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 03:07 AM
3

Well I'm glad you personally don't trick people into having sex with you. However, that doesn't change the fact that the tactics Red Pill espouses ARE predicated on tricking women into having sex with you. And before you say that Red Pill doesn't teach men to trick women into having sex with them, the vast majority of your comrades here are arguing that manipulating women for sex isn't wrong. They almost all agree that what they're doing constitutes manipulating women specifically for sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 03:04 AM
1

The problem is that she manipulated you for her own purposes...which is exactly the same thing as you manipulating women for your own purposes.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 02:40 AM
2

Okay. It looks like we're drawing different conclusions from the same data. My parting message to you, is that you're on the wrong side of history. You can come up with justifications all day long, but all you're doing is making excuses for oppression.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 02:05 AM
1

Okay, lets use an extreme example to illustrate my point. Lets say a man manipulates a woman into going to his home, where he brutally rapes her. According to your logic, wearing makeup is exactly the same as manipulating a woman so you can rape her.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 01:43 AM
1

How is that not malicious? Lets say a woman knowingly gave you an STD, wouldn't you say that was her fault for tricking you, even though you consented to sex?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 01:38 AM
1

Red Pill isn't merely a set of traits. It's a series of tactics designed to trick women into having sex with you. Lets say you go to the store and purchase a product, but that product was faulty. You were manipulated and tricked. Would you still blame yourself? Of course not.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 01:36 AM
1

So, if her manipulating and tricking YOU causes you to call her a bad person, why is it a acceptable for you to manipulate and trick her?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 01:34 AM
1

Would you not consider negging and dread game to be wrong?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 01:33 AM
1

Sure, there are personality differences, but wouldn't you say those personality differences are the result of being raised within a patriarchal society?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 01:05 AM
1

How would you feel if a woman knowingly gave you an STD? She manipulated you and tricked you. Would you say that the manipulation was just a bit of harmless fun? Or would you say she was a bad person?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 01:03 AM
1

Now you're trolling me.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:56 AM
1

Imagine that a woman knowingly gave you an STD. She tricked and manipulated you by not informing you that she had an STD. Would you still say the same thing? Would you say, "Well it's my fault for having sex with her"? Of course not., Have a little empathy, it will help you see how awful Red Pill behavior is.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:55 AM
1

Now you're quibbling over legal definitions of consent. Sure, legally when a woman has sex with you as a result of negging she has consented. But would she have had sex with you if you hadn't preyed on her insecurities? Of course not, especially if she knew you were the type of monster who would use such tactics.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:53 AM
1

Negging and dread game both cause psychological harm.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:51 AM
1

The problem is that healthy relationships are built on trust. Without trust, a relationship becomes a prison. Manipulation totally and completely removes trust from a relationship, which makes it unhealthy. And then of course, there's also the fact that manipulating someone specifically for your benefit and at their expense, is a bad thing to do.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:51 AM
1

the problem here, is that according to Red Pill the only way to avoid being taken advantage of, is to take advantage of others. This only contributes to making the world a worse place. And as a side note, your talk of "managing your wife's emotions" is incredibly creepy and disturbing. I mean, how would YOU feel if you were in a relationship with someone who consistently manipulated you?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:48 AM
1

So, you're saying that's not a good/evil distinction, despite the fact that it's literally the basis for all moral judgments? Okay.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:45 AM
1

Subjective moral arguments aren't necessarily "incoherent." Unless you deny the existence of morality completely.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:43 AM
2

So now you're saying that biological differences dictate how happy men and women are in their respective gender roles. What evidence do you have that suggests women are naturally more inclined than men to be caretakers? And before you say, "Women are happier at home" I'd like to refer you to my previous arguments on that subject.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:42 AM
5

You're assuming that women are some sort of hive-mind with the same traits. There are manipulative women out there, AND there are non-manipulative women out there. This might shock you, but women AREN'T ALL THE SAME.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:40 AM
1

Sure, Red Pillers may not become literal psychopaths, but that doesn't change the fact that Red Pill encourages psychopathic behavior which directly harms other people.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:38 AM
1

It has to do with manipulation because the woman manipulated you by not informing you that she had an STD.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:37 AM
1

What's your point?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:36 AM
1

If a woman knowingly gives you and STD, would you follow the same logic and say, "Well her tactics worked, therefore it's my fault"? Of course not. The only reason you don't see psychopathic manipulation as a bad thing, is because you aren't putting yourself in their shoes. You haven't made any effort at all to see how harmful Red Pill behaviors are to women.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:35 AM
3

Your argument here is that red Pill works. I don't believe it does, except on women who are vulnerable in some way. However, my larger point is that Red Pill enables you to directly harm other people for your own benefit. How that can be considered a "good thing" is beyond me.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:33 AM
1

Lets say you tell a woman that you're interested in dating long term. You have sex. Then you tell her that you lied to her, and you were only interested in a one night stand. Wouldn't you consider that to be malicious? After all, you're deceiving someone and using them.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:30 AM
1

Exactly.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:29 AM
1

So you're denying that what Red Pill does is psychopathic?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:27 AM
1

I'm not saying "Men force women to wear makeup," I'm saying that there is a societal expectation that women will wear makeup, and since men are part of society, they know that women will use makeup. The same is NOT true for negging.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:26 AM
1

Lets say a woman knowingly gave you an STD. You've been manipulated and tricked. How do you feel? Do you say, "Well it's my fault for being tricked," or do you say, "She is a bad person"?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:24 AM
1

I'm not "morally superior." That isn't the purpose of my post. The purpose of my post is to illustrate the fact that Red Pill is psychopathic, this way people who still care about being a positive influence on others, will abandon Red Pill.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:23 AM
2

Nowhere did I suggest that there was an objective morality. I am going into this assuming, however, that as human beings we can agree on the fundamental questions, like the idea that causing harm is bad.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:21 AM
3

I'm not saying, "You shouldn't be capable of manipulation," I'm saying, "You shouldn't actively use manipulation to trick women into having sex with you."
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:19 AM
2

We both know exactly what I mean when I say manipulation. I'm referring to things like negging and dread game, both of which are unequivocally deceitful manipulation.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:18 AM
1

This attitude is why we spend so much extra money to avoid having universal health care. "I'd rather pay extra to be a bad person, than be good for strangers."
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:16 AM
1

The problem is that Red Pill doesn't exist in a vacuum. The Red Pill is part of a matrix that includes MRA's, PUA's, sexist hate groups, anti-semitic hate groups, racist hate groups, Alt-Right groups, and neo nazi groups. I'm not just trying to convince them to use different psychopathic methods. I'm trying to get them to abandon psychopathy altogether.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:15 AM
0

You equate manipulation with persuasion. Colloquially, manipulation has a NEGATIVE connotation, while persuasion has a POSITIVE connotation. See the difference? Also, you know exactly how you guys trick women into having sex with you. Negging, dread game, emotional manipulation are all used to get women to have sex with you.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:12 AM
1

What strawman?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:09 AM
1

Are you suggesting that women expect to be psychopathically manipulated and tricked into having sex?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:09 AM
0

For some reason you associate being a nice person with narcissism and manipulation. Those are objectively NOT nice traits. Also, it's worth considering that the rest of your Red Pill friends haven't disputed my definition of a nice person, so it seems you're the only one who thinks it's inaccurate.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:08 AM
4

A good person, at their most essential level, is someone who doesn't deliberately harm other people.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:06 AM
1

That's very true. It's one of the reasons Red Pillers keep their manipulative tactics a secret from the women they know.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:05 AM
1

Exactly.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:04 AM
1

If someone treated me badly, I wouldn't take it out on the rest of humanity. Red Pillers have been treated badly by a few women, so they've decided to punish ALL women. How is that rational?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:03 AM
1

I said that everyone is evil, to an extent. Some people are more evil than others.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:02 AM
1

Okay, morality is subjective. I'm not sure how that's relevant. After all, I'm sure we can both agree that deliberately tricking into a woman into sleeping with you through manipulation, is a terrible thing to do.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/17 12:01 AM
2

You know that's a ridiculous thing to say. Red Pill is based on manipulation. Take negging for example. How could anyone possibly consider negging to be anything other than manipulation?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 11:59 PM
1

What's not to like? How about the psychological damage you're doing to other people.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 09:42 AM
1

Okay, purely for the sake of argument lets say that your presentation of the situation is accurate. Why then would you respond by adhering to Red Pill? All you need is a bit of dignity, self respect, and assertiveness. You don't need Red Pill for those things. If you adhere to Red Pill you'll end up taking advantage of emotionally vulnerable women, and manipulating your own partner. Is it worth it to sacrifice your own commitment to not harming other people?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 09:36 AM
2

I ask this loaded question, because Red Pill entails dread game, and negging. Do you approve of dread game and negging?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 09:32 AM
1

Sorry, I don't watch TV. I get my feminism from the feminists I interact with, and the feminist literature I read.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 09:28 AM
1

Well you're doing a bad job of it. Typically when people disagree with something someone else has said, they form a coherent counter argument.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 09:25 AM
1

What do you like about Red Pill? Is it the preying on women's physical insecurities for your own gain? Or is it the emotional manipulation of your own partner at her expense?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 09:24 AM
1

Better or worse DOES imply good or evil, in certain contexts. For example, would it have been better or worse if the Holocaust hadn't happened? That's a good/evil distinction you're making, when you make such a judgment.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 09:22 AM
1

What have I said that's crazy?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 09:21 AM
1

If you fail to take care of yourself, that isn't a result of being too good of a person, that's just plain irresponsibility. there's a distinct difference between being a good person, and being irresponsible. Also, EVEN IF women lacked empathy for men, how would that excuse the deceitful and manipulative behavior that Red Pillers exhibit? Just because other people are bad, that doesn't mean it's okay for you to contribute to the problem by victimizing people.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 09:20 AM
1

If you care about people, then why are you associating yourself with Red Pill? Also, the overwhelming majority of Red Pillers here have agreed that Red Pill is psychopathic.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 09:17 AM
1

Just because her emotional manipulation failed to have a negative outcome, that doesn't change the fact that it's toxic behavior. If I steal money from someone, and that prevents them from buying a pack of cigarettes, that doesn't change the fact that what I did was wrong.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 09:15 AM
1

If you emotionally abuse and manipulate women, as Red Pill would have you do, then you're actively making the world a worse place. Also, where is this feminist ideal coming from? This idea that men need to be passive and never initiate is not a common feminist idea. It sounds like you have a caricature of feminism in your head, and don't understand what it actually is. Also, part of being a good person is standing up for what's right, so being a good person is anathema to being a "pushover." Thi…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 09:13 AM
1

When you say that you refute the existence of evil, does that mean you're refuting the concept that some things are better than others? Because if you agree that some things are better than others, then you do believe in good and evil.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 09:07 AM
1

Okay...are you done trolling me now?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 09:05 AM
6

So you're blaming women for your bad behavior? That's very mature and adult of you. Lets address your points here. You say that it is the "collective experience" of men that women don't like nice men. I'm a man, and I've seen zero evidence to suggest that that would be true. I know plenty of men who would disagree with you. So, instead you should say, "It is the experience of myself and my internet friends that women don't like nice men." Now please consider what is more likely here: That the co…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 09:04 AM
1

Purely for the sake of argument, lets say that negging makes you look more attractive. That doesn't change the fact that it's done with the express intent of maliciously tricking someone into having sex with you. I mean, please explain to me how preying on a woman's insecurities to trick her into having sex with you, isn't predatory behavior?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 08:56 AM
1

Red Pill actively promotes a lack of empathy. Many of Red Pill's tactics are predicated on a total lack of empathy for other people. Dread game, for example, presupposes that you have zero empathy for your partner. To pretend like Red Pill isn't psychopathic, when virtually EVERYONE here is admitting that it is, when even you are admitting that psychopaths should be emulated for their success, is incredibly dishonest and absurd.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 08:53 AM
1

I'm using extreme examples to make a point, but yes, you should be grateful that other people don't harm you. After all, you EXPECT other people to not harm you. So how is it unfair for other people to expect YOU to not harm THEM?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 08:49 AM
1

The exercising and dressing well parts aren't deceitful. Dread game and negging ARE. Makeup is meant to make yourself look more attractive. Dread game and negging are NOT meant to make yourself appear more attractive.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 08:48 AM
1

Your main argument here is that being a good person is the path of least resistance. You're also suggesting that being a good person is an obstacle to sex. First of all, being a good person entails a ton of work. You have to treat most people with respect, you have to be generous, you have to have the moral courage to stand up for what's right, and you have to have the physical courage to physically put your body on the line when it's necessary, you have to avoid the easy shortcuts that being di…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 08:45 AM
1

That's laughable. You rely on other people to not murder you. You rely on other people to not rape you. You rely on other people to not manipulate you. Every single day you heavily rely on others to make it through your day.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 08:29 AM
1

Wearing makeup is not done with the intention to deceive and trick men, it's done with the intention to appear more attractive. Also, there's the fact that there's well known a societal expectation that women will wear makeup, so men are expecting it. Women are NOT expecting things like negging. Also, negging is done with the specific intention of deceiving and tricking women.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 08:28 AM
1

So you're saying that you don't depend on other people's good behavior?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 08:25 AM
2

Honestly, women flirting with other men with the specific intent to make you jealous, is manipulative and unhealthy behavior. I'm not sure how you can see that as harmless, when it's fundamentally dishonest.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 08:24 AM
1

I've been arguing with Red Pillers all day about whether or not psychopathy is a bad thing. Your claim that Red Pill isn't psychopathic, is severely undercut by the fact that most of your comrades believe it IS psychopathic.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 08:22 AM
5

1) If a majority of Red Pillers believe that being a nice person is a bad thing, and if a majority of Red Pillers SAY SO on their subreddit, then how is it unfair to say, "Red Pill has a negative view of being a nice person." After all, if the vast majority of feminists supported something like white genocide, I guarantee you the entirety of Red Pill would say, "feminism supports white genocide." 2) The fact that Red Pill may not advocate using the dark triad for long term relationships, does no…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 08:18 AM
1

First of all, you dodged my question. Second, intent is a good rule of thumb, but it's not ALWAYS useful. However, a person who DELIBERATELY plows their car into someone, will be punished more than a person who accidentally kills someone as a result of drunkenness.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 08:10 AM
1

My claim is that you have an obligation because WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT, people are depending on you being a good person. This implies that you are obligated to be a good person in return.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 08:07 AM
3

Why does it matter that morality is subjective? The subjectivity of morality doesn't make it any less valuable or applicable to our lives. This is especially true if you're starting off your analysis of morality with positive intent.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 08:06 AM
1

Okay.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 07:53 AM
1

Sure, they aren't using PHYSICAL force, but they are using coercion and blackmail.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 07:51 AM
1

Okay, ignore the irrelevant part of my post and respond to the rest of it.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 07:50 AM
1

It's the combination of the dark triad, and an attempt to abandon positive traits to avoid appearing like a nice person, that makes it psychopathic. Psychopathy is the bedrock upon which Red Pill is built.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 07:49 AM
0

Once again, let me point out that negging is NOT expected in a dating situation according to society's norms. Makeup is expected by society's norms. This means men are expecting women to wear makeup, therefore there isn't any kind of malicious deception involved. Also, and this is the more important point, the intent behind makeup is not to trick men into having sex with women. The intent is to appear more attractive. The intent behind negging is SPECIFICALLY to trick women into having sex with …
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 07:47 AM
3

Slavery is not wrong because we've collectively decided that it's wrong, slavery is wrong because it's a system predicated on oppression, misery, and exploitation. Slavery was wrong, even when people didn't believe it was wrong. Now, you might respond by saying that this is merely a result of my modern subjective experience of morality, to which I respond, so what?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 07:42 AM
2

If you're going to say something just say it. I'm not going to promise that I'll agree with what you have to say though.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 07:38 AM
1

Sure, I agree with everything you said there, but most normal people with empathy won't use the marriage as blackmail to extort sex from their wives. Most normal people with empathy, would rather get a divorce than force their wives to have sex with them when they don't want to.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 07:20 AM
2

Oh, that's right, you said slavery was "neutral." I'm sure that'll win over the ladies. I mean, that's what really turns women on: A total disregard for pure historical evil.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 07:17 AM
1

That's literally blackmail. "Have sex with me, or I'll severely fuck up your life." If you can't see how extorting sex from your wife is a bad thing to do, then we're not going to agree on anything.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 07:15 AM
1

I wasn't relying on my personal moral authority. I was relying on what (I thought) were our shared moral beliefs. Like I said before, it took me completely by surprise that someone would dispute the evil of a total lack of empathy for others.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 07:13 AM
1

It's trolling because you're deliberately ignoring my arguments. For example, I pointed out the fact that everyone is evil to an extent. You ignored that.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 07:12 AM
1

It's not psychopathic manipulation to "want sex in a marriage and to threaten leaving if you don't get it," but we both know that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about coercing your wife into having sex with you WHEN SHE DOESN'T WANT TO. There's a distinct difference between "wanting sex" and deliberately using your marriage as blackmail to get what you want.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 07:10 AM
3

Are you the same guy who was explaining to me earlier how slavery wasn't wrong? Yeah, good luck finding someone to marry.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 07:08 AM
1

I'm not sure I understand where this is coming from. Lets use a more extreme example to highlight why your view is wrong. If a woman chooses to trust a man, and that man brutally rapes her, is it her fault that she was raped? Obviously it was the man's fault, because in the end he was the one who carried out the act. The same is true in this other situation. Was it a bad idea for the wife to marry a psychopathic manipulator? Sure. Does that excuse his behavior? No, it doesn't.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 07:06 AM
1

Oh, you're a pedant. Now it all makes sense.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 07:04 AM
1

The choices may have been hers, she may have chosen to trust a manipulative psychopathic Red Piller, but that doesn't change the fact that she's being subjected to coercion in the end.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 07:03 AM
3

I said what I said because it's a common outcome for disaffected young men who have trouble getting female attention. It's a common thing for men to blame women for their own personal failings.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 07:02 AM
1

Now you're just trolling me.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 07:00 AM
3

The obvious answer is that Red Pill is nihilistic. The Red Pill attitude is an attitude of "anything goes, and damn the repercussions."
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 07:00 AM
1

My point is that if you care about being a good person, and treating those around you well, then you'll stay far away from Red Pill.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 06:58 AM
0

"Negging" is the deliberate act of preying on a woman's insecurities for your own benefit. I think it's pretty obvious why that's not a good thing to do. I mean, you wouldn't want someone to do that to you, would you?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 06:57 AM
4

Pedophilia is a mental illness too, and we stigmatize it for good reason. Similarly, I stigmatize psychopathy for good reason, that reason being the fact that a total lack of empathy is an integral part of causing harm to others.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 06:55 AM
1

Once again, it all depends on the point you're trying to make. If your point is that you shouldn't bully people because it causes harm, and the person you're talking to doesn't believe that causing harm is a bad thing, then using the extreme example of terroristic violence would be a good way of communicating how harming others is wrong.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 06:53 AM
1

If you follow that logic, then you won't listen to anyone, ever.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 06:50 AM
1

Sure, hypothetically that's true, but you're not considering how it works in practice. In practice, women often become financially dependent on their husbands. This is especially true in families with a stay-at-home mom. Also, there's the fact that if the marriage has produced children, the mother might be concerned about their wellbeing in the event of a divorce. These are just a few reasons why a woman might consider herself to be forced to have sex with the husband to keep the marriage alive.…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 06:49 AM
3

Just because they don't want to have sex with YOU, that doesn't automatically mean they have ridiculously high standards. It means you just aren't doing very well.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 06:45 AM
1

If you're using the threat of divorce to cajole a woman to have sex with you when she doesn't want to, that's a form of coercion. It may not be illegal, but that doesn't change the fact that it's coercion.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 06:44 AM
2

Okay, morality may be subjective, but there are some things which the overwhelming majority of people DO agree with. For example, the overwhelming majority of people agree that it is better to be a "good" person than a "bad" person. Also, the overwhelming majority of people agree that deliberately manipulating others into having sex with you, is morally wrong. Red Pill entails manipulating women into having sex with you. Now you could say that this is all irrelevant because morality is subjectiv…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 06:42 AM
2

There's a lot to be said here, but I'll keep it simple. What are your thoughts on dread game? That is to say, what are your thoughts on flirting with other women in front of your wife, in order to scare her into having sex with you when she doesn't want to?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 06:37 AM
1

The fact that SOME women use manipulative tactics, is NOT an excuse for men to use manipulative tactics. Here's an analogy: Some Muslims are terrorists. Does that mean that YOU should be a terrorist too? Of course not.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 06:34 AM
1

Why should anyone take my opinion seriously? because everyone is evil, TO AN EXTENT. I'm not unique in being somewhat evil. Also, you misunderstood my "no mitigating factors" point. I was saying that a lack of empathy had a direct and continuous relation to the Holocaust, without mitigating factors. And concerning Hitler, the fact that he personally didn't participate, is a minuscule mitigating factor, but it's offset by the fact that he orchestrated the whole thing in the first place.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 06:32 AM
1

You asked for scientific evidence for a non-scientific claim. That's pretty dumb. If your point was that good and evil are subjective, well, I'm not sure why you would make that point. I never suggested that morality was objective. When I said that a lack of empathy was evil, I honestly didn't think anyone would even consider challenging that, because it's so obviously true when you consider the fact that things like the Holocaust are a product of a lack of empathy.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 06:28 AM
1

She might be having sex with you to save the marriage. Especially if she's worried about the wellbeing of her children, who would not do well in a divorce situation.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 06:24 AM
1

Any number of things. Lying about his wealth, power, or prestige, for example. And before you say, "That isn't Red Pill" I've read enough "after action reports" to know that Red Pillers will use tactics like that.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 06:22 AM
1

Seriously, once you realize that society doesn't owe you sex, you are not entitled to sex, and you are not entitled to female attention, you'll treat women a lot better.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 06:21 AM
0

As I said before, my goal wasn't to convince hardcore Red Pillers. They're a lost cause. My goal was to convince those who are on the fence about Red Pill, that Red Pill isn't something they should participate in.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 06:20 AM
1

Well, makeup is socially expected, so when women wear makeup that bit of deception is expected and prepared for. However, the manipulation that Red Pillers use to get women to sleep with them (like negging for example) is NOT something women expect and it's often NOT what women are prepared for.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 06:18 AM
1

I think that intent plays a very strong role here. For example, if the man is feigning confidence, not to trick her, but to appear more attractive, I don't see anything wrong with that. But if he's lying to her with the intent of tricking her, that's a problem.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 06:10 AM
0

My point here isn't to appeal to their rational self interest. My point here is to attack rational self interest itself. And before you say that's pointless, let me point out that my desired audience here are people who still consider themselves "good people" and who aren't governed solely by rational self interest.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 06:02 AM
3

I've been surrounded by women my entire life, and I've very rarely encountered these "extremely high standards" you speak of.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 06:00 AM
2

Better in a moral sense. That is to say, better at treating others well.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 05:59 AM
1

Because she doesn't want to have sex with you. Her feelings actually do matter.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 05:58 AM
1

Okay, sure.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 05:56 AM
2

The problem here is that Red Pill doesn't just teach you to be careful about who to trust. It also teaches you to manipulate women for sex, which they may or may not want to have. Dread game is a perfect example of this. Red Pill also teaches men that women are inherently childish, irrational, and untrustworthy. The term "hamstering" is an example of this. This constitutes outright sexism. You present Red Pill as if it's benign and harmless, when the truth is that it teaches men to be manipulati…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 05:55 AM
1

It depends on the point you're trying to make. If the point you're trying to make is that hurting other people is wrong (bullying), and you use terrorism as an extreme example of people hurting each other to illustrate how bad hurting people is, then the logic is sound. In practical terms, I wouldn't use terrorism as an example in that context because it's subjectively too far removed from bullying, but if the person you're talking to denies that hurting people is bad, then the terrorism example…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 05:49 AM
1

Yes, following that logic I am to SOME EXTENT evil. However there ARE mitigating factors, like the fact that I didn't personally participate in genocide, and the fact that the United States isn't currently engaging in genocide. Concerning the Holocaust and a lack of empathy, however, there ARE NO mitigating factors.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 05:47 AM
1

Do you agree that some things are better than others? If you say yes to that, then you are making a non-scientific claim, just as I was. See how absurd your argument is? You're essentially claiming that nothing is better or worse than anything else, so there's no point in making non-scientific claims about anything. If you're correct, and nothing is better or worse than anything else, then what's the point in doing anything? What's the point in arguing with me about Red Pill?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 05:44 AM
1

Just because she consents, that doesn't automatically mean you should have sex with her.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 05:38 AM
5

I say that, because nearly every instance of human suffering caused by humans, throughout the entirety of human history, was predicated upon a distinct lack of empathy. It's easier to hurt someone, when you don't feel or identify with their pain.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 05:32 AM
5

If you believe slavery (and all the suffering that entails) is "neutral" then we have no common basis from which to move forward.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 05:30 AM
2

You asked for an explanation of how to have sex without manipulation, and I gave you an answer. The truth is, "hoping for the best" is the most any reasonable person can expect. And it's a strategy that works for the vast majority of people. There are no guarantees in life, and society doesn't owe you sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 05:28 AM
6

Most women don't hold such high standards, dude. If they did, they'd never have sex with anyone.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 05:26 AM
1

Having sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with you, is sexual predation. Just because it's technically legal, that doesn't mean it's acceptable.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 05:24 AM
1

The problem is that "fairness" isn't a scientific concept, and yet you're trying to apply scientific standards to it. The fact of the matter is, fairness is inherently subjective. Does this mean that fairness as a concept is useless? Of course not, because you and I are both human beings and (presumably) are capable of empathy, which means you and I are both capable of perceiving fairness. We might perceive fairness in different ways, which COULD result in an impasse. But that's a risk we'll hav…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 05:23 AM
1

You're presupposing that rational self interest is inherently good. Surely you can see why that's ridiculous.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 05:19 AM
4

You're asking me to support a non-scientific claim with scientific evidence. Obviously this is impossible. Now, you might say, "You're argument is invalid" but that would only be true if you claimed that people can ONLY make scientific claims in the first place. this is all moot by the way, because you admit that the Holocaust was evil, and if you admit that the Holocaust was evil then it follows logically that a total lack of empathy is evil as well.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 05:17 AM
2

Okay, according to your definition of "transaction" every action taken by every human in the entirety of human history is a transaction. Wow. The word "transaction" becomes utterly meaningless when it can be used to describe literally every human interaction ever. And concerning the evil of psychopathy: Psychopathy is a total lack of empathy. A total lack of empathy played a fundamental role in the Holocaust (and nearly every evil thing ever done by a human being to another human being). And sin…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 05:14 AM
7

The lack of empathy for others directly enabled the Holocaust (and every other mass slaughter throughout history). The Holocaust was evil. therefore, a total lack of empathy is evil.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 05:08 AM
2

Scaring a woman into having sex with you, when she DOESN'T want to have sex with you, is sexual predator territory. It's always wrong to have sex with someone when they don't want to have sex with you.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 05:06 AM
1

Honestly I loathe arguing with other people. However, I believe very strongly that there are people reading this who might be on the fence about Red Pill, and might be dissuaded from staying with Red Pill when I expose Red Pill for what it is: The psychopathic manipulation and abuse of women for personal gain. Most men DON'T want to be psychopathic manipulators and abusers, after all.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 05:04 AM
1

Okay. So here's how I see it: If you're manipulating someone who trusts you, you are causing psychological damage. If you are manipulating someone into having sex with you when they DON'T want to have sex with you, you are a sexual predator. And if she doesn't have any trust in you, then the marriage is over and you shouldn't be trying to have sex with her in the first place.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 05:01 AM
2

Well if men have low standards, why are they bending over backwards for women with unreasonably high standards? Also, what ARE these unreasonably high standards you speak of?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:58 AM
6

Okay.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:57 AM
3

So, if the argument can be used to justify slavery, one of the greatest human evils, then isn't it safe to assume that the argument is garbage?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:56 AM
2

Do you want me to lay it out for you? Okay. I hang out with a woman at a local political group. We see each other and talk regularly. Over time we develop a rapport. Then I ask her out, and if she has a good feeling about me she'll say yes. Then we go out on our first date at a restaurant. We talk about things without delving into subjects that are too heavy or too personal. We go out on another couple of dates, talking about more and more important topics. then we start texting off and on over …
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:55 AM
1

I'm not entirely sure what your point is. My ultimate argument here is that being a good person, should be something to aspire to. That's not collectivism. That's basic human decency.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:51 AM
1

If there's no trust then why are you still married?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:49 AM
4

There are plenty of Red Pillers posting here who think that I accurately represented Red Pill. They're arguing that the psychopathy of Red Pill isn't a bad thing.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:48 AM
3

These days it's actually working out just fine.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:46 AM
4

Why is it wrong to manipulate someone to have sex when they don't want to? Because you should never ever have sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with you. Also, flirting with other women in front of your wife is outright manipulation. Being manipulated by someone you trust can cause serious psychological damage. And finally, you are not entitled to sex. Let me repeat that: You are not entitled to sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:45 AM
1

Being manipulated by someone you trust can cause real psychological damage. Explain how real psychological damage is "not a big deal."
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:42 AM
3

What I said was true, however. And I'm not designing every single post to be a total all-encompassing mega-argument that will change your worldview. If you disagree with what I said, feel free to explain, or not. I'm not forcing you to read what I'm writing.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:40 AM
3

You could use the same argument to justify slavery.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:37 AM
1

Nowhere did I say that men are manipulating women into wearing makeup. I said that wearing makeup, is not on the same level of deception as manipulating someone into having sex with you.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:37 AM
1

"Keep your options open" is not the same as, "Flirt with other women in front of your wife in order to scare her into having sex she doesn't even want."
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:35 AM
3

Dude, lots of people have sex without manipulation. That's how the overwhelming majority of people have sex. A piece of advice: Don't go looking specifically for sex. It'll happen eventually if you have basic social skills and go outside.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:34 AM
1

The "White Knight" defense used by right wingers reveals something interesting about your psychology. In your view, everything a man does is centered around manipulating women into having sex with them. You can't imagine a scenario where a man actually has beliefs about something. What does that say about your view of men? When you use the "White Knight" defense, you're subtly implying that all men are deceitful and manipulative.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:31 AM
1

Not a big deal!? It's ALWAYS big deal when someone is manipulated into having sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:29 AM
1

Okay...so? That doesn't invalidate my argument.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:28 AM
6

It's five sentences long. Have you ever read a book?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:26 AM
6

Why do you think modern women should be forced to be subservient to men?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:26 AM
4

Lets say, purely for the sake of argument, that you're correct. Why would men bend over backwards to accommodate absurd expectations, when they can find another woman with lower expectations? Women aren't a hive mind. Also, there's the fact that there are plenty of women attracted to men who are unattainable for them. It's a two way street. Would you also say that MEN are holding unreasonably high standards, because there are women working to attract them?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:25 AM
4

The root problem is the fact that these men are being indoctrinated by the Red Pill and other bigoted online groups, and they're then going out into the real world armed with dangerous and harmful beliefs. They're not just harming themselves, they're harming women as well.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:21 AM
5

You can't have it both ways. Either women are too picky, in which case there would be a multitude of single women out there, or women are swinging above their league. Both can't be true simultaneously.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:19 AM
4

You do realize the irony in an ostensibly selfish man claiming that women are the ones who are selfish. I mean, you're LITERALLY defending the concept of selfishness here, in fact there are many men in this very thread defending the concept of selfishness, and you come from a subreddit dedicated to the concept of selfishness, and yet you have the gall to claim that women are the selfish ones? Do you possess even a shred of self awareness?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:15 AM
1

Okay...I'm still missing your point. No one is entitled to sex. Just because she isn't sleeping with you, that STILL isn't a legitimate reason to manipulate her into having sex with you. See, the problem here is the MANIPULATION, which is inherently wrong.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:12 AM
3

Well, if you're putting up a facade to appear more attractive, then yes, "be yourself" would be good advice in that circumstance. Honesty is usually the best policy.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:10 AM
5

Wait...are you suggesting that it's okay to manipulate your wife into having sex with you, solely because you haven't had sex in a while? You're missing the part where it is NEVER acceptable to manipulate someone into having sex with you. There ARE no circumstances where it's acceptable to manipulate someone into having sex with you.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:08 AM
1

So you're suggesting that the basis for every moral system in history is wrong and doesn't apply to you. Okay. What is a system of morality that WOULD apply to you?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:06 AM
2

Sometimes people have sex with each other because they feel affection for one another. It boggles my mind that you're unaware of that. Also, what do you want me to provide a source for?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:04 AM
2

You didn't provide a counterargument. How am I supposed to respond when there is no argument to respond to?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:03 AM
1

Okay, I'll just go with the dictionary definition: Not conforming to approved standards of ethics.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:02 AM
1

I'm not sure what you mean. Can you clarify?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:01 AM
2

Okay, I'll cite the fact that the Holocaust happened. https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005143
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 04:00 AM
1

Dude you know what the word "unfair" means. I'm not going to play this game. If you have a point to make, then make it.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 03:58 AM
1

First of all, sex isn't a "transaction." Also, if you are right and "everyone" is looking out solely for themselves and being purely selfish, society would cease to function. Society RELIES on selflessness, society has always relied on selflessness. That isn't to say that people won't take advantage of that selflessness, but if you're trying to avoid being taken advantage of, becoming selfish yourself is the wrong answer because you're contributing to the problem.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 03:57 AM
2

The parts where the man is supposed to deliberately distance himself from his wife, and to OPENLY FLIRT WITH OTHER WOMEN IN FRONT OF HIS WIFE, are where I would point out the manipulation.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 03:49 AM
3

The direct lived experience of being in a very specific relationship, can be seen as a purely subjective experience, like tasting a mango. But I'm not sure how that's relevant. After all, it seems that you're suggesting that I would be more open to using Red Pill tactics if I had experienced such a relationship. Well, before we go too far down this rabbit hole, let me say straight up that even if I were abandoned by an attractive woman that wouldn't impact my worldview because my worldview isn't…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 03:48 AM
1

To deliberately influence in an unfair way.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 03:42 AM
1

I'm not asking you to subscribe specifically to my version of morality. I'm asking you to subscribe to the basis for virtually every moral system in history. This is extremely basic stuff. Unless you're a nihilist, in which case this conversation is pointless.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 03:40 AM
3

Okay, now you're just trolling me.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 03:38 AM
7

I'd like to cite the entire history of civilization. From the very beginning, the lack of empathy for others (which is ultimately what psychopathy is) has enabled nearly every mass slaughter. Dehumanization of the perceived "enemy" reduces your empathy for them, which enables you to fight and kill them more effectively. Racism, anti-semitism, sexism, and every other form of bigotry are rooted in a lack of empathy. I could go on.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 03:37 AM
1

Okay. So? There are zero excuses for manipulating a woman into having sex with you.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 03:34 AM
1

What you're describing is class warfare (the conflict between bosses and employees). Class warfare and dating are two very different things. After all, women aren't trying to oppress you.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 03:33 AM
3

Intent is extremely important. If you unintentionally say something false then you can't really be blamed too much.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 03:30 AM
5

I'm not sure how manspreading is relevant here.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 03:29 AM
3

So you're suggesting that other people don't depend on you being a good person?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 03:28 AM
7

If women are so picky, why do the vast overwhelming majority of women find partners? If they're so picky that they deserve to be "treated poorly" then how do they find anyone to partner with?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 03:28 AM
8

Again, I'm not sure I understand your argument. Are you saying that it's okay to treat people poorly, because there are selfish people in the world?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 03:26 AM
1

I was saying that there is a widely known social norm that women wear makeup. There is no widely known social norm suggesting that men should manipulate women they're trying to have sex with. In fact, most people are operating under the assumption that most men aren't manipulative Red Pill psychopaths. That's why it's wrong to say that manipulating a woman to have sex with you is the same as a woman wearing makeup.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 03:24 AM
1

I just provided an example of a man using outright manipulation to get a woman to have sex with him...and your response is to ask why the poor guy would do such a thing? It's irrelevant what the causes are, because there ARE no excuses for manipulating someone into having sex with you. She's not having sex with him? So what! There are healthy ways to resolve that particular situation WITHOUT using manipulation. Go to the dead bedrooms subreddit. plenty of people there have found ways to handle s…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 03:21 AM
2

I'm not interested in arguing for their self interest, because that doesn't address the root problem. If I overwhelmingly prove that Red Pill is ineffectual, that won't solve anything, because they'll simply move on to another similarly poisonous community.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 03:16 AM
3

If your argument is predicated on the other person having experienced something very specific in their life, then it probably isn't a very strong argument.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 03:14 AM
3

How you treat strangers, is the primary test of what kind of person you are. Treating strangers badly is the easy road. But why would you take the easy road? After all, YOU are a stranger to someone else. Wouldn't you hope that they treat you well?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 03:12 AM
5

I'm not asking you to be a saint. I'm asking you to TRY to avoid harming those around you. What I'm asking is the base minimum for being a decent person, and it's actually not that difficult. The first step is disconnecting from Red Pill, which is very easy to do. And finally, I don't accept that first premise, so this is all a moot point. The vast majority of the time, being a good person will NOT actively harm your quality of life.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 03:09 AM
1

Okay. So?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 03:05 AM
3

It looks like we're looking at the same information, and drawing different conclusions. When the article suggests that more traditional women are more satisfied with their lot in life because of different cognitive comparisons, you write that off because "hamstering." Saying the word "hamstering" does not constitute a counter argument. It's also worth considering that women brought up with more patriarchal values will have a different metric for happiness because they're brought up to have less …
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 03:04 AM
5

Are you suggesting that dread game is not a deliberate tactic used by Red Pillers?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 02:55 AM
2

Dread game is all over Red Pill, pretending it doesn't exist is ridiculous, but I'll humor you. Here's one very mild example I found after a quick google search. Notice how the author suggests that you deliberately distance yourself from your wife, and notice how he suggests that you start flirting with other women IN FRONT OF your wife to make her jealous and scared. That's the definition of manipulation. https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2l7pqe/the_12_levels_of_dread_the_rules_for_a…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 02:53 AM
1

The fact that you personally don't expect women to wear makeup, doesn't change the fact that it's expected by society at large.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 02:48 AM
1

I'm not sure what your point is.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 02:47 AM
3

Dread game. it's the emotional abuse and manipulation of a person in order to trick them into staying in a relationship with you.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 02:45 AM
1

Yes I do, I've argued about it at length with Red Pillers in the past. But it seems everyone has their own view of dread game, so if you have your own version of it feel free to share.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 02:44 AM
3

Well, as far as I'm concerned, there's no point in convincing people that Red Pill is impractical because then they'll only move on to other equally toxic places. If they don't see that Red Pill is MORALLY wrong, then they won't see how any other psychopathic belief system is wrong. The people I'm targeting with this post, are young people who still consider themselves to be "good people" but have accidentally fallen into a toxic community. I want to illustrate the fact that Red Pill does not ca…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 02:43 AM
3

I feel like my response was articulate and directly answered your question. There's nothing stopping you from sharing your position.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 02:38 AM
1

Dread game entails preying on women's insecurities, deceiving them, and tricking them into staying in a relationship, often against their own best interests.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 02:36 AM
1

The problem here is that Red Pill doesn't JUST teach you to be more assertive. It also teaches you to manipulate and emotionally abuse other people for your own benefit. You're right, plenty of guys are brought up being "too nice for their own good." However, that doesn't mean rushing to the opposite extreme and becoming manipulative monsters is a good thing. Also, it's worth mentioning that politeness doesn't mean a person is "good." The truth, as far as I can tell, is that being a good man ent…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 02:34 AM
3

For specificity, I'll cite dread game. That is unequivocally harmful and abusive. Moving on, if rational self interest comes at the direct expense of others, then it IS a bad thing. Just because your self interest is "rational" that doesn't mean it's a good thing.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 02:28 AM
5

Well, plenty of other Red Pillers in this very thread seem to think that I've described it accurately.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 02:26 AM
4

You're presenting a strawman here. No one, anywhere, is saying that being nice and caring on their own are enough to attract women. You have to have many attractive characteristics when taken as a whole. A lot of Red pill men are men who tried the "I'm nice, and that's all I have going for me" tactic, and when that inevitably failed they turned hard right into the lunatic belly of the Red Pill beast. My point is, being nice in itself isn't enough, you have to have many other positive characteris…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 02:24 AM
3

Feminism is defined by its drive for equality, in the same way Red Pill is defined by manipulation. It's the fundamental, unique characteristic. After all, feminism was the original gender equality movement, all others came after. It's also worth mentioning that just because the Red Pill worldview is internally consistent, that doesn't mean it has any basis in truth. The problem is that there are women who are highly vulnerable and susceptible to manipulation, which means there will always be "R…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 02:20 AM
9

You're completely ignoring my point. Regardless, what you're saying makes no sense. Lets say, purely for the sake of argument, that you're right. So? How does OTHER people doing bad things in ANY way justify you doing bad things?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 02:13 AM
1

Lying to a woman and making her feel worthless in the name of tricking her into staying with you, constitutes manipulation and emotional abuse.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 02:11 AM
1

You're ignoring the fact that men EXPECT women to wear makeup. Women, on the other hand, don't expect psychopathic manipulation. See the difference?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 02:10 AM
6

Two words: Dread game.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 02:08 AM
3

The claim I asserted is that women aren't made happy by being manipulated and emotionally abused. Should I cite sources on the effects of emotional abuse? And concerning your second point, you're absolutely right that women's happiness has declined. However, we probably disagree on the cause. the cause is the fact that gains in women's rights in certain areas have not been accompanied by gains in women's rights at the workplace. This means that women are often expected to do the chores at home, …
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 02:07 AM
1

If I tell a woman something false with the express intent of tricking her into sleeping with me then yes, I would be the manipulator.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 02:00 AM
6

So you're fine with harming others for your own benefit? Okay.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 01:59 AM
4

I'm not suggesting that everyone needs to be a saint. I'm suggesting that being a good person is NOT a bad thing.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 01:58 AM
3

So, you're implying that I would be more open to manipulation and emotional abuse if I experienced that particular subjective experience? What? Also there's the fact that the situation you present is itself an absurdity, because as I've pointed out multiple times SMV is purely SUBJECTIVE. It's not a scientific measurement.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 01:56 AM
4

You're saying that Red Pill enables people to have happy long term relationships, which is obviously false. Women aren't made happy by being manipulated and emotionally abused. Red Pill and its adherents have an almost universally negative impact on women.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 01:53 AM
1

So what you're saying is that we shouldn't try to improve the world, because evil will always exist? If we applied that kind of thinking to the real world, no progress would ever be made, anywhere.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 01:50 AM
0

I don't think you understand how abuse works. Oftentimes, the more abused a woman is, the more emotionally dependent she becomes on the abuser. Also, deliberately giving someone an STD is an extreme example...but it's still a legitimate example. Person A is tricking Person B into allowing themselves to be harmed. That's what Red Pill is at its most fundamental.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 01:48 AM
6

No counter arguments to the fact that you're dependent on others? Okay.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 01:45 AM
1

Dread game is one obvious example, especially in the context of a marriage.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 01:45 AM
2

For everyone. For yourself, and for others. I could say that becoming a better person is it's own reward, but I think that argument will fall on deaf ears. So here's another argument for you: People depend on you being a good person, just as YOU depend on OTHERS being good people. You have an obligation to be a good person, because other people rely on that, just as you rely on them being good people. Every day, you rely on others to not hurt you, and they rely on you to not cause them harm. Thi…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 01:40 AM
5

You didn't present a counter argument to my argument that evil is not made acceptable by its prevalence. Moving on, you say that manipulation is just one small part of Red Pill. The truth is that manipulation is the cornerstone of Red Pill, because all the other stuff can be found elsewhere. Manipulation and emotional abuse are the characteristics that separate Red Pill from other sites which give dating advice. You can find "dress well and exercise" literally anywhere. It's the manipulation, em…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 01:36 AM
1

Women DO feel harmed when they are manipulated and emotionally abused. I know this because I've talked to women who have been harmed in these exact ways, by men who hold psychopathic views similar to those of adherents to Red Pill.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 01:32 AM
8

It doesn't? What do you think the effects of manipulation and emotional abuse ARE? Are manipulation and emotional abuse GOOD things?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 01:30 AM
4

Purely for the sake of argument, lets say that's true. What is the rational response to not being cared about? Is it, "Deliberately make the world a worse place," or, "Try to set a positive example for others"? The answer should be obvious.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 01:29 AM
3

When Red Pillers say, "Nice guys finish last" they aren't saying, "The online caricature of manipulative assholes who whine about women not sleeping with them finish last." They're saying, "People who treat others with respect and kindness finish last."
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 01:27 AM
0

It may be worse than what Red Pillers do, but it's in the same category. The difference is quantitative, not qualitative. The fact that the damage you do is psychological, does not diminish the fact that it IS damage. Dread game and the inevitable damage that comes from being emotionally abused is one example of this. Also, you're saying I should grow up? You're implying that because there are adult people who deliberately hurt others, that means I should turn a blind eye to people harming other…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 01:25 AM
5

Okay, what you're suggesting here is that it's perfectly acceptable to do evil things, as long as you balance them out. You're also suggesting that Red Pill does enough good to balance out the bad. My question is, how? How does Red Pill balance out the bad? If you're a bad person to begin with, then increasing your level of assertiveness will actually make you an even worse influence on the world.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 01:19 AM
5

The fact is, everyone in society is interdependent. You depend on others being good, just as others depend on YOU being good. When you consciously choose to place sex above being a good person, you are letting down everyone who depends on you being a good person. Like it or not, you have an OBLIGATION to be a good person because other people are depending on that fact. Women depend on men behaving well, and men depend on women behaving well. When you make the conscious decision to manipulate and…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 01:15 AM
3

Well I'm glad you're not a rapist. But the fact is, Red Pill DOES teach men to do awful things. The fact that you personally don't adhere to every rule of Red Pill does not negate the fact that Red Pill supports those horrendous things.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 01:11 AM
5

Manipulation is always harmful to some extent. However, we knowingly accept a small level of manipulation on the part of corporations because it's necessary for the economy to function properly. People typically expect others to put on their best face in a dating situation, because that's necessary for the process. Deliberately deceiving and tricking someone into sleeping with you, however, is not accepted by the vast majority of people as part of the standard dating ritual. And concerning dread…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 01:09 AM
5

If I murder a person, and then save a life, did that cancel out the fact that I murdered someone? Of course not. What you're suggesting is that people can do any amount of evil as long as they feel like they've balanced it out. I'm sure you can see why that's absurd, and why it would have a catastrophic effect on society.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 01:03 AM
10

I'm not going to comment one way or another, because my personal experience with women is irrelevant. The idiosyncrasies of one person's experience renders that experience irrelevant when discussing matters that pertain to billions of people. For example, lets say that I were a 65 year old man who had been married to a woman with a "higher SMV" (a concept I reject because it's fundamentally subjective to both parties) for decades. How would that impact your argument? Now lets say that I were a 1…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 01:01 AM
10

Red Pill encourages men to make the world a worse place through manipulation, emotional abuse, and psychopathy. You are saying that's a good thing. I am disputing your suggestion that that's a good thing.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 12:55 AM
2

Okay. So? Should we simply abandon trying to become better people?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 12:54 AM
2

So, to you, intimacy is more important than not harming others? Come on. It's simultaneously hilarious and depressing how you guys claim women are the manipulative evil ones, when YOU are consciously choosing to make the world a worse place.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 12:53 AM
3

Google, "dating advice" and you'll find tons of places that will tell you to dress well and exercise. Red Pill is unique solely in that it encourages psychopathy alongside the standard boring dating advice.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 12:50 AM
9

If I understand your question, you're wondering if a women will stick with a man who has a lower SMV than her. You present it as if it's a scientific question that has a direct answer, when the truth is that it's meaningless gibberish because SMV is fundamentally subjective.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 12:47 AM
5

So now you're blaming the victim? That's a pathetic excuse. There are no excuses for needlessly manipulating and emotionally abusing other human beings. Donating to a charity does not wipe away your actions.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 12:44 AM
6

Lets say a woman knowingly gave you an STD. Would you still have the same attitude? I doubt it. When women are emotionally abused by you guys, it can cause them to develop trust issues. Manipulation isn't harmless. Emotional abuse isn't harmless.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 12:43 AM
7

So actively making the world a worse place, doesn't bother you?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 12:40 AM
4

First of all, you're assuming that manipulation equals "working for it." Working for it would properly entail working out, dressing better, and becoming a better person. Manipulation is not a positive thing. Secondly, even if women are generally manipulative, that is no excuse for evil behavior. If I see someone murder someone else, that doesn't mean it's okay for me to do the same thing.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 12:39 AM
3

You disagree? So you're saying that your welfare is more important than others? You're not special, dude.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 12:36 AM
3

Customers consciously know they're being manipulated by corporations. People generally don't know that they're being manipulated when a Red Piller manipulates them. That's the difference. Also, dread game is predicated on lying to your partner (someone who trusts you) to alter their behavior. That's directly harmful emotional abuse.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 12:34 AM
5

The point is that Red Pill mixes in psychopathy alongside advice like "dress well." Red Pill teaches you to manipulate and emotionally abuse others. It's insidious because people have difficulty discerning the good advice from the bad, because they're mixed together.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 12:30 AM
4

So you're fine with being manipulated and emotionally abused by others? I have difficulty believing that.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 12:29 AM
3

First of all, women are diverse. Some women are drawn to abusive assholes. Some women are drawn to genuinely good people. But even if that's not true, it still wouldn't be good to be negative influence on others. What's more important: Sex, or being a good person?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 12:28 AM
5

Don't worry about TRP? How could I not worry about TRP? Red Pill actively advocates for the manipulation and emotional abuse of other human beings, which is utterly evil. When I see communities like Red Pill indoctrinating young men into awful behavior, I feel the need to confront it.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 12:25 AM
3

The alternative to Red Pill is treating other people with respect and decency and not manipulating them. I have trouble understanding how that harms others.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 12:22 AM
2

So it's "not men's problem" when you deliberately manipulate others? You are literally the sole cause of harm when you manipulate someone. Blaming the victim doesn't get you off the hook. Women aren't forcing you to be a bad person, that's a conscious decision you make.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 12:21 AM
10

You can get that advice (dress well and exercise) literally anywhere. That's not ALL you get from Red Pill though, is it?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 12:19 AM
6

If you manipulate other people for your own personal benefit, you are directly causing them harm. For example, dread game is the emotional abuse and manipulation of your significant other. How could dread game possibly be considered harmless?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 12:18 AM
7

It's a serious question. You're defending Red Pill tactics, which means you're defending manipulation and psychopathy.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 12:15 AM
5

I'm not entirely sure what your point is. Can you clarify?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 12:14 AM
9

Okay, you're still manipulating women into sleeping with you. Whether or not they're "looking for sex" is completely irrelevant. Lets say you're looking to buy a car. So you go to a dealer and he lies to you about the quality of the car, manipulating you into buying it. Does the fact that you were looking to buy a car excuse the dishonesty of the dealer? Of course not.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 12:13 AM
9

So, you're saying that manipulating women into sleeping with you is somehow good for them? How is a lack of empathy positive for those around you?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 12:10 AM
3

Manipulating women for sex is "minimal harm"?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 12:08 AM
7

Okay, so manipulating women to sleep with you isn't harming them? How would you feel if a man manipulated you into giving him money? You'd feel like you'd been used. Being manipulated out of a few bucks is nowhere near as bad as being manipulated for sex. That's causing direct harm to your fellow human beings.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 12:07 AM
7

My interpretation of "Nice guys finish last" isn't a stretch when you know what strategies of manipulation and emotional abuse Red Pill advocates.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 12:05 AM
7

How can you possibly be a positive influence on those around you if you use psychopathic manipulation to use them? Using a lack of empathy as a "tool" merely makes you more capable of hurting others.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 12:04 AM
2

So, you're saying that people should adhere to Red Pill despite the fact that it causes harm to others?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 12:02 AM
10

Red Pill encourages psychopathy, which is inherently evil. Psychopathy is a lack of empathy. Empathy is required, ESPECIALLY in romantic relationships, to be a good person. It's also worth mentioning that psychopathic manipulation victimizes people. How could you possibly see that as harmless?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 12:01 AM
4

The strategies Red Pill outlines are often incredibly harmful, and are predicated on selfishness. Even if Red Pill actually worked, why on earth would you want to be a bad person? For sex? It simply isn't worth it.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/10/17 11:58 PM
2

It matters because people typically want to be positive, rather than negative, influences on those around them. If you care about other human beings, then why would you adhere to Red Pill?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/10/17 11:56 PM
8

I'm not advocating "being a pushover."
/r/PurplePillDebate22/10/17 11:55 PM
5

I'm going into this assuming that there are some Red Pillers who want to be good people. I'm thinking of teenagers who don't know any better and have been drawn into Red Pill out of desperation.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/10/17 11:54 PM
3

Okay, for the sake of argument lets say your right. Why would you adhere to Red Pill, knowing that it enables you to be even worse than you already are?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/10/17 11:53 PM
6

I don't consider Red Pill effective. I was saying that EVEN IF Red Pill was effective, I STILL wouldn't want anything to do with it because it negatively impacts people.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/10/17 11:51 PM
2

What do you mean? I'm assuming that people want to be positive influences on those around them. And if that assumption is true, then those people will want to abandon Red Pill.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/10/17 11:50 PM
10

Everyone is selfish to a degree. There are very few people who are totally defined by their selfishness. So, does the fact that we're all selfish to a degree, mean that we should completely abandon becoming better people? Of course not, and to say otherwise is to make excuses for complacency and stagnation.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/10/17 11:48 PM
1

Our gender roles are: Women gather, and men hunt. That doesn't really apply to our modern world. So I don't have any problem with doing away with gender roles altogether. But for the sake of argument, lets say that men are perhaps 10% more aggressive than women. So what? I don't see how that information would be relevant in the modern world, except to explain violent crime statistics. We must not inflict gender roles upon people who neither want nor need them.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/06/17 03:49 AM
1

We're seeing things very differently, on nearly every level. One of the reasons I believe what I believe, is because you can't recover from manipulating your wife. There is no rescuing the marriage after that. Once you take that route, you've effectively ended the relationship, if the wife has any self respect, that is. In practical terms, you're wife will never, ever fully trust you again. You seem to believe a marriage can recover from anything! A marriage can survive manipulation, because of …
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/17 09:53 PM
1

You're essentially saying that you would manipulate your wife for the greater good. As far as I'm concerned, that's simply an excuse to manipulate your wife. I'm not saying you do manipulate your wife by the way, I'm saying your argument is justification for manipulation. I'm going to return to an argument I've made multiple times already: If you have to manipulate your wife to save the marriage, then your marriage is already over. You are no longer equal partners. You no longer have a base of t…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/17 06:27 PM
1

As I said before, we're both arguing over semantics at this point, and I doubt we're going to find common ground. I don't feel like playing word games for the next few hours. I've explained how I see Feminism, and you've explained how you see it. So let's leave it at that.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/17 01:14 PM
1

So democracy isn't a political movement? Feminism isnt an idea? Okay. I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, we clearly are nowhere near being on the same page and now we're bickering about semantics. It was fun talking to you.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/17 01:07 PM
1

To you, playing games with your spouse's emotions is not a big deal, but to me it means everything. If I found myself doing that to my wife, I would lose all my self respect and I would resent the marriage forever. I couldn't stay married to someone who I manipulated. But, that is probably a moot point because we clearly have different sets of morals. What's not a big deal to you, is absolutely massive to me. Like I said before, we're rehashing the same moral disagreement over and over without g…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/17 01:04 PM
1

If feminism is not about gender equality, then democracy is not about popular rule.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/17 12:55 PM
1

I'm pretty sure you completely missed the point. The concept of Democracy doesn't change when people misuse the term. The concept of Feminism doesn't change when people misuse the term. Are there a few misandrists out there who call themselves Feminists? Sure. But that DOESN'T change what Feminism always has been about.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/17 12:37 PM
1

Feminism is about gender equality in the same way Democracy is about popular rule. Feminism and Democracy are older than the current crop of adherents. When someone says, "Feminism is about dominating men," that's the same thing as saying "Democracy is about Oligarchy." It's utter nonsense. And the nonsense is compounded by the fact that a majority of Feminists don't see Feminism as being about dominating men in the first place! So, as far as I'm concerned, this suggestion that Feminism isn't ab…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/17 12:19 PM
1

Here's the difference between the two options: The first option is to emotionally manipulate your spouse, and the second option is to not emotionally manipulate your spouse. If you have to choose option one, then as I have said before, the marriage is already over. Its worth noting however that the honest suggestion of divorce may be the the wake up call she needs. But again...if you're suggesting divorce with the INTENT of altering her behavior, then that's problematic as well. I know you don't…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/17 12:06 PM
1

Feminism is about gender equality. The Klan is about racial superiority. I dont see how the two are comparable.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/17 04:18 AM
3

I may be biased, but I've almost never seen actual misandry. Misogyny however is constant and everywhere.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/17 04:17 AM
2

Feminists aren't perfect, and pointing out their flaws is fine. But discarding gender equality all together because a few feminists are ignorant is ridiculous. The problem is, women are so accustomed to facing men in oppositional terms, it will actually take a bit of time for them to get used to men who aren't misogynists.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/17 03:39 AM
5

I'm not sure I understand your point.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/17 02:34 AM
3

The fact is, feminism is ultimately about gender equality. Oftentimes feminists make mistakes, because they don't have male input that ISN'T misogynistic. If you want men's issues to be dealt with more concern, then take back the space from the MRA's, RedPillers, and MGTOW's, and provide feedback without bigotry.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/17 02:17 AM
1

The problem here, is intent. If you naturally separate yourself emotionally from her, I see nothing wrong with that. The problem, is when you DELIBERATELY alter your behavior to manipulate her emotionally. That's where I draw the line.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/17 01:32 AM
1

The key part of your post here is "separate yourself from her emotionally." That is what I take issue with. If you have to play emotional games like that, then the marriage is already over. I know you've put a lot of thought into this, and I'm sure the thought of emotional manipulation bothers you too. But I can't go there. My principles (for better or for worse) absolutely will not allow me to behave in the way you suggest. And I will absolutely condemn others for behaving in such a way.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/17 01:07 AM
1

I would do everything up to stage three, then marriage counseling, then divorce. I know that would be really terrible, but its the best outcome given the situation. I mean, consider where you're at with stage three. Communication has already failed, which is an indicator that the overall relationship isn't working out. Working out hasn't worked, so the problem isn't physical, its mental. What this means, is that the problem goes much deeper than just sex. Which is why I would suggest divorce at …
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/17 12:13 AM
1

For what its worth, I actually did read your post. However, I didn't memorize the damn thing. The two things that jumped out at me were 1) Emotionally distancing yourself from your wife to send a message, and 2) Flirting in front of your wife to send a message. Those two tactics are absolutely manipulative, and I will certainly judge anyone harshly if they resort to those tactics. Long story short: In my opinion, if you need to use manipulation to make the marriage last, then the marriage is mos…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/17 10:12 PM
1

Here's a simple question for you that should clear everything up: When is cheating acceptable?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/17 02:47 PM
0

Are you serious right now? This whole time you've been acting like I'm an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about, but you knew I was right! You guys don't care about cheating at all, which is utterly repulsive.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/17 02:35 PM
0

I haven't seen it in the sidebar, but I have seen married guys claim to be cheating, with the response from the community being essentially, "You just haven't TRPed hard enough bro!" Its pretty apparent to me that you guys don't have a negative opinion of cheating. My computer isn't working so I'm on my phone. I can't link to anything unfortunately.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/17 02:23 PM
1

Honestly I don't think you guys are being entirely honest about what TRP stands for. I've seen plenty of absolutely heinous shit on TRP and you guys are pretending that its irrelevant or nonexistent.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/17 02:12 PM
1

Honestly, I would be satisfied with a functioning representative democracy. But that's not what we have right now. Our politicians are bought by corporations and the wealthy. That's not good for anyone, except the upper class.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/17 04:42 AM
1

So you don't believe in democracy? Okay. I don't think we're going to find common ground here.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/17 04:32 AM
2

That's an interesting criticism. Critical theory is something that I know very little about, aside from what's on wikipedia. But I can see why it would bother you, political ideology should (in most cases) be kept at arms reach when it comes to academia.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/17 04:30 AM
2

Agreed on all counts. I am interested in what your critique of critical theory is, by the way. My understanding is limited, I am a college dropout. But the way I see things, critical theory tears down ideology, without building anything to replace it. This creates vacuums in which extremism thrives. But I could just be misunderstanding critical theory, I haven't read enough about it.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/17 03:57 AM
2

I absolutely agree that feminists need to do better on men's issues! Also, you're right that the rhetoric used is way too divisive. I think the problem is that feminists are so used to facing men in oppositional terms (fighting misogynists etc.) That they aren't accustomed at all to working alongside men. I believe that when it comes to gender equality, us men haven't done anywhere NEAR enough. We've left a vacuum which is filled with misogynists who have completely tainted any mention of men's …
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/17 02:45 AM
1

Well, I've met plenty of people who are like me, but that isn't really evidence of anything. My guess is that men are actually more discerning than they pretend to be. But that's just a guess. I honestly have no idea how prevalent my view of sex is.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/17 12:59 AM
2

Personality is a massive factor in whether or not I want to have sex for someone because....I don't really know. Like, I look at Tomi Lahren and think that she's attractive, but I could never, ever imagine myself sleeping with her because the things she says are so revolting to me.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/17 12:30 AM
1

Blue pill. I would relocate depending on the level of relationship I'm in. If the relationship is just beginning, obviously not. But if I've been with the woman for many years and I'm deeply in love with her, I'd give up any job.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/17 12:14 AM
1

I agree completely that the first parts about self improvement isn't a problem. The problem comes with the emotional manipulation in the later parts. The first step should always be, "Talk to your wife about the problem." If you and your wife have good communication skills, this will quickly lead to change. The second step is to see a doctor to make sure she doesn't have any medical issues causing a low libido (I.e. new medication). The third and final step is couples counseling. Also, no worrie…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/17 12:03 AM
1

You're entire strategy is manipulative! Deliberately cutting yourself off emotionally to send a message? Flirting in front of your wife to send a message? That's not how someone behaves when they have respect for their wife.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 11:41 PM
1

But I'm not lying. Its a very simple fact that feminism is about equality. It boggles my mind that you guys can't see that.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 11:25 PM
1

I know this will sound like a cop out, but its really hard for me to type out long messages on my phone, which I'm using because my computer isn't working. I hope you don't mind. 1) It's a moot point anyways, because I'm not going to RedPill for any kind of advice whatsoever. But its good to know that a few of you don't take the worst redpill advice to heart. 2) manipulation and trickery are fine in a football match. They absolutely are not fine in sexual relationships.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 11:23 PM
1

Honestly if you're dreadgaming or gaslighting your wife (common married redpill tactics) then you're emotionally abusing her.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 11:11 PM
1

So its self serving because its my ideology? In that case, isn't everyone with an ideology self serving?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 11:08 PM
1

...but the general attitude is that LTR's (I.e. what I'm solely interested in) are a bad idea. Duly noted. Also, the simple fact that you use the phrase "sexual strategy" unironically is repellent to me. The phrase reeks of deception and manipulation.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 11:01 PM
1

Honestly the success stories freak me out the most, because it means the woman is willing to put up with emotional abuse indefinitely at the hands of her husband. That shit depresses the hell out of me.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 10:57 PM
1

Okay, you still haven't explained how its self serving.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 10:55 PM
1

Some of the people I'm attracted to have corrosive personalities. Not going to have sex with them.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 10:53 PM
1

Feminism is, and has always been, about equality. I honestly have no idea how you guys can say otherwise. Sure, feminism isn't perfect, but that doesn't mean you just give up on it.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 10:51 PM
1

The other guy I was talking to said that RedPill advises AGAINST LTR's, so which is it?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 10:49 PM
1

I've read plenty of accounts of RedPillers ruining their marriages through cheating, emotional manipulation, and abuse. And the reaction is always the same: You just didn't RedPill hard enough! Its absurd and cult-like thinking.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 10:46 PM
1

So you believe feminism isn't about equality, because of your relatives? Also, feminism is called feminism because when it first began the odds were stacked so heavily in men's favor it would've been ridiculous to call it anything else.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 10:44 PM
1

...because misogynists have been successful in blurring what feminism is to the broader public. If you believe in gender equality, then you're a feminist by definition, whether you claim to adhere to it or not.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 09:00 PM
1

Alright its clear that we're not making any progress. I've made my points, you've made yours, let's call it a day.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 04:53 PM
1

So how is saying "fuck off" supposed to make me more understanding or amenable to RedPill?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 04:52 PM
1

If you don't have anything constructive or interesting to say then feel free to stay silent.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 04:29 PM
1

Being oblivious to men's issues...which is a result of most MRA's being openly misogynistic. How can feminists take men's issues into account, when the only men talking about it are bigots?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 04:10 PM
2

And I gave you a perfectly reasonable explanation for why feminists don't always take men's issues into consideration. You ignored that.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 03:56 PM
1

What?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 03:51 PM
2

You just had to get in that final jab, didn't you? I've found that people who see feminism as something other than equality, don't believe in equality in the first place, so even if we agreed on the definitions, I doubt we'd find any common ground.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 03:50 PM
1

I think that if we can't agree on basic definitions, then we won't be able to make much progress. Its been fun talking to you.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 03:37 PM
1

The fact is, many men are monogamous, and many men are naturally polyamorous. Saying most men are polyamorous is ridiculous.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 03:35 PM
1

So you don't have an answer. Duly noted. And concerning the phone: "You do realize that scythe you're wielding was made under Feudalism, right?" See how ridiculous and stupid that sounds?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 02:49 PM
2

Men aren't built for that purpose. Human beings are built to raise and nurture capable people. This means sticking around and aiding the mother and the child.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 02:46 PM
1

Well I'm genuinely glad you have such a nuanced view of RedPill. I feel bad for all the insecure younger guys out there who don't, and are swallowing ideological poison pills as a result.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 02:41 PM
1

You didn't answer my question.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 02:39 PM
2

You're ascribing nefarious motives where there aren't any. I'm not trying to trick you. In my mind, most American women believe in gender equality, that's why I said "women." Also, you equated feminism with RedPill, which is absurd. Feminism isn't about gender dominance, its about gender equality. RedPill on the other hand IS about gender dominance. The two are not equivalent AT ALL.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 02:38 PM
3

Dude, it sounds like you have a warped view of relationships. Life isn't about having sex with as many women as possible.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 02:34 PM
2

Hahaha what?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 02:25 PM
2

Okay, do you really believe women do those things because they genuinely hate men? Or are they just not aware of men's issues? After all, basically the only men giving women feedback on men's issues are misogynists, so it makes sense that they wouldn't always take men's issues into account.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 02:22 PM
1

Okay...so you're saying RedPillers don't believe in cheating. Interesting.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 02:20 PM
2

Uhhh, presumably you would stick around because you love her and you care about the child.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 02:15 PM
5

If you believe women are "evil" then you're probably spending too much time on the internet, and not enough time interacting with your lady friends in the real world.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 02:14 PM
1

Well I'm sorry you had such negative experiences. Personally, most women I know go for good guys, so I don't really understand where you're coming from, but I wish you good luck.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 01:44 PM
1

Okay. So? Why should I, or anyone for that matter, accept living in anything other than a democracy?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 01:41 PM
3

If you spend all your time on YouTube watching videos that cherrypick from self proclaimed feminists then yes I could understand where you're coming from. But if you look at what feminists do in the REAL world overall, you'll see that you're wildly wrong.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 01:40 PM
1

I'm a man. If you're right about feminism, then how would it be self serving for me? I mean, if feminism is about harming men (which is an absurd proposition), then what benefit would I personally have by promoting it?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 01:37 PM
0

Feminists don't always do the right thing. Also, without input from men (the ones who aren't misogynistic), feminists are completely at a loss when it comes to men's issues. None of this changes what feminism actually is, however.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 01:33 PM
1

Yes, the Duluth Model is deeply flawed. But that isn't a result of some nefarious motive on the part of feminists. Its a result of poorly understanding some forms of domestic violence.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 01:30 PM
1

If you genuinely think there's no reason to change things, then I think our differences of opinion are too great to be overcome. It was fun talking to you.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 01:26 PM
1

I think you're probably right, I just took issue with how the other guy phrased things. I told him so just a few minutes ago.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 05:20 AM
3

Thanks for the offer, but I think I'll be fine on my own. As far as I'm concerned Red Pill is poison for guys like me (depressed, anxious, hard time meeting women, etc.). I appreciate that you're not being malicious, but I have to do what's right...even if it means I end up single in the end.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 05:18 AM
9

To survive, a prostitute has to let strangers violate her body, oftentimes this involves outright rape. Many prostitutes are raped multiple times over the years. Many are forced to prostitute when they were underage, and couldn't escape. Many have pimps who take their money and beat them. If you don't feel sorry for prostitutes, then you probably don't have any empathy in the first place.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 05:15 AM
1

It's hard to know. I mean, those people at RedPill don't seem to have any kind of respect for women at all, or even respect for themselves, so I really can't say for sure.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 05:06 AM
3

Honestly, I'm perfectly fine with the odds. I'd rather try and fail, than not try at all. Call me a romantic, but I genuinely believe in love. At least I'm going to TRY to be happy.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 05:04 AM
1

Its when you're "dating" multiple women at the same time.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 05:01 AM
1

You're absolutely right. I think it was the way you phrased things that pissed me off.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 04:55 AM
1

I see. Well I'll watch it. And I'm not just saying that! I will watch it probably tomorrow evening.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 04:53 AM
1

1) I'm not saying men have had it easy. What I am saying is that legally when feminism first began women didn't have the same rights as men at all. 2) Well I can't watch that documentary right now. All I know, is that I've seen heaps of misogyny on RedPill, and especially concerning their core beliefs. In fact, the ONLY place online that I've found that deals with men's rights without resorting to misogyny is the subreddit menslib.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 04:50 AM
1

I've read enough Red Pill to know that if you're not "spinning plates" while you're married, then you're doing it "wrong."
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 04:41 AM
1

I'm glad you agree with me! I've been having a heck of a time this evening arguing with people, its nice to know someone out there sees where I'm coming from.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 04:38 AM
2

Honestly, anything short of a (peaceful) revolution will mean total catastrophe. The situation is extremely delicate, and it will remain delicate until we either institute an actual democracy, or the economy collapses.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 04:36 AM
3

I would guess that menslib's answer would be that I date someone for at least 4 or 5 years before marriage. But that's just a guess. I could ask them. And no not all women are wonderful/nurturing etc. But some are very compatible with me. And that's really all I'm looking for.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 04:33 AM
1

Red Pill says you should cheat on your wife and emotionally manipulate/abuse her etc. How can someone possibly be happy in a marriage like that?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 04:30 AM
4

I'm attracted to all kinds of women. It doesn't mean I want to have sex with all of them!
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 04:29 AM
5

So the answer from Red Pill for men like me is...spend the rest of our lives being unhappy. Duly noted.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 04:27 AM
1

First of all, thank you for the well thought out response. Unfortunately I'm on my phone so I can't watch the videos (limited data). But I'll do my best to respond in a reasonable way. 1) Feminism is called feminism because when the movement for gender equality began the world was massively tilted in men's favor. It would have been strange to call it egalitarianism at that time. 2) Unfortunately I don't know enough about Warren Farrel to comment on him. 3) Concerning the "vocal minority." The pr…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 04:25 AM
3

The fact is, many men will never be happy only seeking out short term relationships. I'm one of those men. What does Red Pill have to say about that?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 04:14 AM
2

I wish I could respond more fully, but I'm on my phone so it would take forever. Sorry about that. Personally I think many of the answers you get from menslib are really good. I think we will have to agree to disagree on that. Concerning long term relationships...I don't even know what to say. I mean, many men deeply desire the love and intimacy that comes from a long term relationship. Are they supposed to just accept being unhappy for the rest of their lives because RedPill says they should?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 04:08 AM
2

Feel free to enlighten me.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 04:04 AM
3

Our bill of rights does some good, but not anywhere near enough. Our democracy is a sham, politicians are bought by corporations and the wealthy. The individual is crushed under the weight of the corporate state, and the community is ripped apart. Our "economy" is a house of cards, ready to fall apart under a stern breeze. This country is on the precipice, and only democratic socialism will rescue it.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 03:50 AM
3

I'm not sure what you mean. There are plenty of great answers (and solid dating tips) on menslib.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 03:38 AM
2

I sure do, although its extremely rare for me to encounter one.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 03:37 AM
1

TRP might help you get one night stands, but it will absolutely sabotage any long term relationship you have. If you want to have a long term, loving relationship that makes you genuinely happy, TRP will destroy that.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 03:35 AM
1

TRP might help you get one night stands, but it will absolutely sabotage any long term relationship you have. If you want to have a long term, loving relationship that makes you genuinely happy, TRP will destroy that.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 03:35 AM
3

Explain to me how its self serving?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 03:27 AM
6

Lots of people believe that...because that's what feminism actually is. As I said before, the people who don't see feminism that way are generally people who oppose gender equality in the first place.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 03:10 AM
3

Check out the subreddit called menslib. Its really good stuff, without all the misogyny that other "men's rights groups" have.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 03:08 AM
1

You're acting like the behavior on the left is somehow equivalent. The people on the left are fighting against racism, misogyny, and fascism. The people on the right are fighting FOR those things. There is no equivalency between the two.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 03:05 AM
1

Socialist, thank you very much. I believe Socialism is the only way to truly guarantee the rights of the individual (and of the community).
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 02:51 AM
1

TRP fundamentally misunderstands our "underlying OS." The concept of Alpha males only works with wolves when they're in captivity. It doesn't apply to humans at all. Our nearest relatives are bonobos, and they don't adhere to the alpha/beta male thing AT ALL. It turns out that humans are complex. We aren't all monogamous, but we aren't all polyamorous either. It depends on the individual! That dependence on the individual is precisely what TRP ignores, in favor of simplistic generalizations that…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 02:49 AM
8

Feminism is about equal rights for men and women. It's that simple. People who say otherwise, generally do so because they don't support equality.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 02:39 AM
2

That's very true. I guess I was most upset by what he said towards the end, that this girl won't respect him if he's her friend. That was just ridiculous.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 02:31 AM
2

Well I'm glad you're not a bigot! Such a rarity for RedPill.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 02:18 AM
3

For a second I thought you were serious! Haha
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 02:15 AM
1

He gave advice that would be bad for anyone, which is why I'm using generalizations.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 02:13 AM
2

Lying to a woman. You're having sex on false pretenses. At least the escort isn't being deceived.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 02:08 AM
2

Wow. Okay. I don't think we're going to make any progress here. It was fun talking to you.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 02:01 AM
4

There is a distinct difference between being attracted to someone, and wanting to have sex with them. Also, being a good person is ALSO attractive to women. Women (like men) are complex beings.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 01:59 AM
2

As I said before, Trump is not Hitler. But he is a crypto-fascist, and if he gets a chance to institute a state of emergency, he will. The only way to prevent this, is through consistent mass demonstrations and civil disobedience.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 01:53 AM
2

He was disliked by a majority of Germans. But that didn't change the fact that they tolerated him...which was their critical error. Trump is not Hitler. But he certainly is a crypto-fascist charlatan who will destroy our democracy if he is given a chance.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 01:41 AM
2

Exactly. But that doesn't change the fact that you were wrong. It turns out I was wrong too: According to wikipedia Hitler only got 36% of the vote, not 44%.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 01:36 AM
3

Hitler at his best could only get 44% of the vote before taking power.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 01:32 AM
5

Most 1930's Germans weren't fascists either. But they were still culpable for supporting or tolerating fascism. Its our job to educate people, to teach them about the dangers of nationalism and fascism, before it's too late for us.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 01:28 AM
5

Good luck. Just don't be surprised when you start acting like a misogynistic, racist, fascist asshole to people. That shit is pure poison.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 01:25 AM
3

Like I said before I'm not a liberal. And I firmly believe that calling out fascists is extremely important, so that people can know what to avoid. Donald Trump is a crypto-fascist charlatan. Many of his followers (e.g. the KKK) are full blown fascists. Saying this out loud doesn't make them stronger.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 01:22 AM
6

I'm not a liberal, first of all. I just speak the truth as clearly as I can. Fascism is on the rise all across the Western World. And RedPill functions exactly like a cult.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 01:16 AM
1

Obviously you shouldn't let people walk all over you. But doing things for other people without expecting a reward, is actually a fundamental part of being a good human being.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 01:14 AM
0

Don't worry about being a "nice guy." A "nice guy" is someone who initially pretends to be a good person, but reacts with venom when rejected. That's not who you are, so don't worry about it. Be assertive, but not arrogant. Continue treating women well.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 01:00 AM
0

What an absolutely toxic piece of advice this is. If everyone was like this guy and was made genuinely happy by making others happy, then the world would actually be an amazing place.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 12:55 AM
11

RedPill is a cult. There's no better word to describe it. They prey on the insecurities of vulnerable young men to grow their numbers. They accept information that supports their views, and deny the vast majority of information which disproves their views. They are inculcated into a belief system that causes them to behave differently and to perceive the world differently. And most importantly, they adhere to ideas that are fundamentally anti social, and extremely harmful. They are a cult. Treat…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 12:51 AM
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