anjuna-apollo Archive

Upvotes	Title	Category	Author	Subreddit	Date (UTC)
80	I wrote an anthropological master's thesis on MGTOW / Red pill		anjuna-apollo	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/03/22 10:06 AM
57	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere	Edu./Occu.	anjuna-apollo	/r/MensRights	09/04/22 09:12 AM
1	Swedish MGTOW:s?		anjuna-apollo	/r/MGTOW2	25/11/20 01:47 PM

Upvotes	Comment on	Subreddit	Date (UTC)
1	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Ok my bad to give you the Wikipedia link lol. I should not have done that. I know it's pretty horrible. What do you think about this summary? It's a Swedish website so you'd have to translate it https://maskulint.se/om-manlighet/vad-ar-manosfaren/	/r/MensRights	12/04/22 06:05 AM
1	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Hey mim, thank you! Talking to people is a big thing in anthropology, so that's not really the problem. The problem is that certain minorities are not studied due to the prevalent conception that you should agree with your informants/object of study, and "team up with them". I think the major issue lies in that, not in our methods. As for Leonardo: I get what you mean and maybe I should have been more clearer in that sentence. However, as write "... it lifted the heavvy burden of being entirerly…	/r/MensRights	12/04/22 05:59 AM
1	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere The only place in my thesis where feminism is written about is the 1.5 pages about feminist anthropology. Elsewhere, I use my informants' words about feminism being a truth regime. And, once again, my thesis is not about feminism, queer theory or gender per se.	/r/MensRights	11/04/22 03:23 PM
1	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Hehe I think I was pretty straight forward and transparent in explaining the purpose of my study. I did a smaller project on the anti-abortion movement here in Stockholm, where the leader once asked me "So Sebastian. What do actually think about this? Be honest". And I said "Hm. I don't think that's relevant. Im gonna do my best, regardless of what I think of you". Then the conversation ended	/r/MensRights	11/04/22 03:18 PM
1	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Regarding relating the second awakening to conspiracy theories, the diversity in both evolutionary psychology & feminism: you have very valid arguments and if I would pursue a PhD I would definitely try to incorporate your ideas. The thing is, as I "only" did a master's thesis, I had to cut my text down A LOT and try to focus on the most relevant stuff. Many times during the writing period, I had to remind myself that the aim with my thesis was not to explain the ideology behind MGTOW, or connec…	/r/MensRights	11/04/22 03:14 PM
1	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere I've actually been thinking about referring to my own work and put in some comments in the MGTOW-wikipedia page. Through the wikipedia page you get some academic references if you feel like reading those. Also there are some Swedish websites, stemming from a sort of MRA/MGTOW-perspective, that also use the term "manosphere" so I'd say its a pretty legit label. However, describing the manosphere is another thing, and 99% of the research labels it just as you wrote	/r/MensRights	11/04/22 03:02 PM
1	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Hm okay now I get your point. I mean it more in terms of "point of departure" Since you're the only one who has commented on it, Im not sure what to do with it lol. Since the thesis already has been published, Im gonna stick with it. But thanks for the comment anyways! Got me thinking	/r/MensRights	11/04/22 10:35 AM
1	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Will reply later today to your comments!	/r/MensRights	11/04/22 06:06 AM
1	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Im pretty sure it articulates what I am trying to say - the Introduction has been proof read my many of my peers, some English speaking friends, and also a professional translator who knows my intentions. Maybe you get stuck on what a "good" minority is?	/r/MensRights	11/04/22 06:04 AM
1	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manosphere There has also been research about the Manosphere, so it is quite a legitimate umbrella term I'd say. You can, of course, problematize this. What I needed in the beginning of my thesis was to contextualize MGTOW a bit, and shows its connections to other communities and ideas. Hence the manosphere	/r/MensRights	11/04/22 06:01 AM
1	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Yeah that's true. The idea of me being cancelled is ridiculous, but maybe Im naive. Lets see!!!	/r/MensRights	10/04/22 05:09 PM
1	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Yes, this is a great point. My tutor and I had several discussions about this, and I think I did a pretty good job at fixing some minor mistakes concerning taking their perspective as some kind of truth. Did you see anything that opposes this? Please let me know, I am interested. I think I also summed it up in the concluding comments - "... relating the emic perspective of MGTOW to broader discussions on discipline, social exclusion and truth regimes." Here I also come to think of a comment in…	/r/MensRights	10/04/22 04:59 PM
1	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Yupp, thank you for this comment as well. It is such a reward seeing normal people reading my thesis, but it can be challenging as well due to the discrepancy in understanding context/background/rules/usage of theories etc. To my defense here - I am not taking on feminist theories in my thesis. Rather, I am giving a background on feminist anthropology. Also, one needs to remember that there is a word count for master theses hehe	/r/MensRights	10/04/22 04:43 PM
1	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Oh yes, I like this comment a lot. Great point about it not being any news to anthropology. However, as sad as it might sound, I felt that the idea of feminism being a truth regime was news to friends, peers at university, and the Swedish society in general. Its interesting how feminism has grown from social sciences, but is rarely judged by the same institutions. In that aspect, I think I did something "new".	/r/MensRights	10/04/22 04:38 PM
1	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Hm what do you mean? Could you elaborate?	/r/MensRights	10/04/22 04:29 PM
1	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Hi Thaddeus, thank you for reading & commenting on my thesis! I'll go through your post chronologically. About "conspirary" theories - Yes, that is a correct reading - most of my informants felt as if they had cracked the code after having turned to MGTOW / read up on evolutionary psychology. I also write about this explicitely in 5.3.3. "Notions of mastery and illumination", so I'm not really following your point here to be honest. About MGTOW not being a new thing - Sure, there have always bee…	/r/MensRights	10/04/22 04:28 PM
1	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere I tried reading "Angry White Men" but got really upset after about 50 pages.... So yeah, not really my type of theorist. Yes, well that does not surprise me unfortunately	/r/MensRights	10/04/22 08:39 AM
1	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Thank you!! Chapter 2 was the most fun to write actually.	/r/MensRights	10/04/22 08:27 AM
1	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Sure, it may well be an English thing - I'm Swedish and English is only my second language. However, there is no need for an author to communicate his/her own personal view of the theory - again, that is not the aim of theories in an academic paper. Rather, a more scientific approac is to have neutral stance to every theory, and then let your empirical data speak for itself (as I did with masculinity in crisis-concept). About the missing "not": your suggestion is the opposite of what I wanted to…	/r/MensRights	10/04/22 08:26 AM
1	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Thank you! I actually emailed him the thesis and he replied with a pretty long answer. He's huge in the states	/r/MensRights	10/04/22 08:20 AM
2	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Thank you so much for this, and for recognizing that I used my own biases in order to understand MGTOW, and its context, on a deeper level.	/r/MensRights	10/04/22 08:19 AM
2	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere I do get what you mean by stating that there are no MGTOW values. But, if you'd explain MGTOW to a stranger I'm sure you'd end up explaining all sorts of theories, perspectives, and ideas. I talked to 15 people, watched several youtube-videos, hung out on forums, and I believe there are common themes that you could define as MGTOW values. Sure, the word "values" gives the impression of there being like 5 separated themes/ideas that all share, which is not the case really. Anyways, it's tricky an…	/r/MensRights	10/04/22 08:17 AM
2	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Oh geez, YES. I think this is the 56th time that I encourage you to read my thesis - I adress the lack of studies on MGTOW and problematize it. My thesis is 20% of the studies that solely focus on MGTOW (mad). Do continue reading!	/r/MensRights	10/04/22 08:13 AM
1	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Well, here I guess it comes down to her having tutered thousands of theses the past 20 years. We can all sit here on this forum and have opinions about how things are down in various professional contexts, but let's not forget that it's also just a regular job for someone. I appreciate your comments though! Hehe, I think this debate about what the words "weak" and "subordinate" mean is getting us nowhere. But yes, I would have loved to have you as my opponent back then :-)	/r/MensRights	10/04/22 08:11 AM
2	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere I knew the majority of the researchers were right about the manosphere/MRA - you are all so homophobic!!!!!	/r/MensRights	10/04/22 08:06 AM
2	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Not sure your sexual orientation relates to how how hard you find the scientific method is. And as the comment below point to - there are different types of sciences and disciplines with different aims and methods	/r/MensRights	10/04/22 08:04 AM
2	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Im not so sure about that actually! I had a lot of support from my tutor and older peers at university about continuing into a PhD. My tutor encouraged and adviced me to deduce the most important parts of my thesis and write an article about it!	/r/MensRights	10/04/22 08:02 AM
2	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere I mean if someone starts disliking me because of what I wrote in this thesis, then that's totally fine for me. I do not see any reason of protecting myself	/r/MensRights	10/04/22 08:00 AM
1	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Wow, tack så mycket!	/r/MensRights	09/04/22 07:47 PM
1	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Thank you so much! I 100% agree with you. I wish I could do a PhD on this in the future, going deeper into, basically, everything. Wow, it's been proof read maybe 10 times (and downloaded many times according to the DIVA-page), but you're the first to comment on that typo. Unfortunately I cannot do anything about it now. Thank you once again for your comments - they mean a lot	/r/MensRights	09/04/22 07:21 PM
5	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Ok, got it. Well I have the blessing of being highly sociable and likeable, so I try to use that whenever I talk about these topics to smoothen out thing. Again, pointing to how we all are human beings.	/r/MensRights	09/04/22 07:17 PM
2	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere I would advice you to read more chapters, especially the third one, as it sheds light on how these individuals think and act in accordance with MGTOW values! In the first 2-3 drafts of the thesis, I included a definition of MGTOW. But, as soon as I started talking to my informants I slowly but steadily realised that MGTOW should not be defined (I write about the dilemma of defining things in relation to MGTOW as well, on page 57!). What I came across was a huge divide between what the MGTOW onli…	/r/MensRights	09/04/22 07:13 PM
0	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere The reason behind her suggestion was to make sure the readers would not think that I equate my informants' circumstances with the Malaysian peasants. The peasants face death if they do not abide with the common low. My informants do not. There are other obvious differences. Hehe, well that is the thing - I am not saying that MGTOW is a weak group in society. At page 18, I argue for the relevance of this theory: "Although being context-specific, the focal poiint in these small acts of resistance …	/r/MensRights	09/04/22 06:59 PM
3	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Yup, I totally get you on this one. As sad as it is, we are all human beings with irrational emotions that will, even if we think they won't, have a huge impact on how we think and act. But I appreciate your comments a lot, and I'm pretty humbled by the fact that you've taken the time and effort to both read my thesis, and discuss it here with me. Hehe, aren't you doing exactly what you just termed as overly emotional and irrational? You know the academic rules, I refered to them, but you nevert…	/r/MensRights	09/04/22 06:28 PM
5	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere "Yes for example you might be nervous of someone you secretly love but are afraid of losing. But that's not the case here. They were your enemy." I think this statement sheds light on what I am trying to avoid with my thesis - I am not on anyone's side here. I feel I keep referring to the main aim of my study, and I think you should read maybe the Introduction & last parts of the concluding comments again to try to get my perspective on this. Yes, I have heard the same so many times... Now that …	/r/MensRights	09/04/22 06:14 PM
2	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Hey Asatmaya, thank you for expressing your thoughts! Are they based on only the first chapter, or on the whole thesis? What aspects do you refer do when doing that analysis - how they practice/express MGTOW, how they found MGTOW, or their aspirations on a potential future partner? This also points to the problematic aspect of defining a MGTOW. See page 58: The reluctancy of adhering to rules regarding desired manners of conduct, either if they refer to a specific type of male behaviour or becom…	/r/MensRights	09/04/22 06:07 PM
2	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Haha, I wished you were my opponent last year. I mean, I am not gonna sit here and say that chapter 1 is my proudest academic piece of work - I almost got depressed by how hard it was to find fitting theories. But then again, everything comes down to what the aim with the thesis was. The main goal with it was not to provide a psychological account of how men turn to MGTOW, or to make visible any sort of misandry or bad treatment. This is only a fraction of my thesis.	/r/MensRights	09/04/22 05:36 PM
1	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Hehe, this is fun. What do you mean by "lies"? Would you say that I, on a personal level, think that my informants belong to a weak group in society? I do not discuss this in the text. Although the suggestion to write that specific paragraph came from my tutor (lol), I do 100% see the reason behind it. And yes, see my other reply to you. You do have multiple valid points and I would not argue against them (although they are a bit exaggerated).	/r/MensRights	09/04/22 05:28 PM
6	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere In order to make a change, I decided to play the game and then make a change, rather than changing the rules of the game and then start playing. This goes for how you write an academic paper, but also in terms of what the current philosophy of social sciences encourages. I think I'll leave it at that, but you do have valid arguments which, in some ways, could represent what I felt writing the thesis. Edit: it needs to be clarified here that using a theory does not equate you agreeing with it o…	/r/MensRights	09/04/22 05:21 PM
2	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Hehe, well just because you are nervous towards someone does not make that someone your enemy. Or do I misunderstand you? Yes, you point to a very true and difficult dilemma - a dilemma I am trying to point to in my thesis. My fear was based on feelings and on prior experiences, leading me to almost skip the opposition seminar. What I wanted to prove with that statement was that it might be a good idea to actually try to interact with that person you think (according to some prior experience/fee…	/r/MensRights	09/04/22 05:16 PM
5	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Ok, the answers to the research questions: A) Some turn to MGTOW out of a, what they would call, a natural and innate aversion towards women. These men say they never had any interest in longterm relationships, but there are obvious hints in their stories that point to another explanation. B) Others turn to MGTOW out of loneliness and mental health issues. MGTOW provides them with a solid emotional base, encourages them to self-improve and let go of the constant chasing of women. C) The third pa…	/r/MensRights	09/04/22 02:38 PM
6	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Because I did not find his sexual orientation relevant to neither his theories or my thesis. Do you?	/r/MensRights	09/04/22 02:08 PM
4	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere In the thesis, I try to answer the question through my informants's own emotional stories. Apart from the structural aspects you are mentioning, would you say your story has anything in common with the ones mentioned in my study? My findings point to a much bigger experience than just being single. For example, finding yourself in a feminist truth regime, being very disappointed and bitter about your upbringing & experiencing at least one awakening in regards to it, and resisting docility. Hehe,…	/r/MensRights	09/04/22 02:08 PM
19	I wrote an anthropological thesis about MGTOW/manosphere Well I was very nervous before the opposition seminar, when I was meant to defend the thesis and my arguments. Truth to be told, nothing happened and everyone was very supportive of my thesis. I guess this points to our human flaw of always expecting the worst in our "enemies" (I do not see feminists as any enemies what so ever, but you get my point). And here I think of the importance of actually talking to each other, rather than demonizing and hating everything that doesn't fit in your little…	/r/MensRights	09/04/22 01:58 PM
3	I wrote an anthropological master's thesis on MGTOW / Red pill Ooooh, these are very precious words. I am so glad you read it and that you took the time to write this message. Thank you so much!!! I am also really happy you appreciated the application of Foucault. What you describe is exactly the picture I had in mind when choosing the theory. Once again, thank you - you made my day!	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/03/22 06:40 AM
1	I wrote an anthropological master's thesis on MGTOW / Red pill Well, during the initial research period before my fieldwork, I spent a lot of time looking into the structure of modern online social movements. My tutor actually wanted me to focus on the communication & structure of MGTOW, as she had done similar work in the past and knew a lot of research about it. But in the end I chose not to. It is really interesting though!	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/03/22 08:00 PM
2	I wrote an anthropological master's thesis on MGTOW / Red pill Thank YOU!	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/03/22 07:56 PM
1	I wrote an anthropological master's thesis on MGTOW / Red pill Well that is a very central aspect of my thesis. Through using Foucault's notions of "regime of truth" and mixing it together with feminism, I aim at somehow connect the two in both a direct and an indirect way. Anthropology has been very left leaning the last few decades, so what you are saying is exactly my point as well :) You should read the second chapter (Being MGTOW)!	/r/PurplePillDebate	08/03/22 07:00 AM
2	I wrote an anthropological master's thesis on MGTOW / Red pill Hm interesting. I guess your take is very encapsulating and captures both sides. Which means your theory somewhat explains it. Woho! What do you say about my informants claims about some not having experienced "the second awakening"? By "in this area" I assume you mean within the MGTOW-field. Well, as of last summer, there were 4-5 studies that had MGTOW as its sole focus. Therefore, one could say my thesis is about 20% of the research field! Online communities such as Red Pill and MGTOW has bee…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/03/22 06:21 PM
3	I wrote an anthropological master's thesis on MGTOW / Red pill I totally get what you are saying. Multiple times I was tempted to do a more longterm analysis of MGTOW. Once during fieldwork I emailed one of my professors asking if I could focus only on the epistemic schism between social constructivism and positivism in my thesis lol. However, anthropology is all about connecting the local to the global. You need to start at the local tho :) But thank you for your feedback, and for your concluding comments	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/03/22 06:11 PM
1	I wrote an anthropological master's thesis on MGTOW / Red pill And I do agree with you on that! I actually never wanted to write about feminism, but my tutor and all my peers strongly adviced me to do it. Although I personally feel the thesis could have been written without it, I kinda see the academic necessity of it. Yepp, all concepts that include the word "crisis" are usually exaggerated and come from a very specific outlook. " Some judo move here, throwing back a favorite of postmodernists to their face to tell them that they're the regime of truth..."…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/03/22 05:58 PM
2	I wrote an anthropological master's thesis on MGTOW / Red pill Thank you! You point to a really interesting aspect of the discourse withing MGTOW/Red Pill. As an outsider, I often thought all these definitions and understandings were based on a rather narrow & dichotomic view of things. I have this one super interesting narrative from one of my informants who started off as a PUA. Long story short, he was really confused as to whether he should apply the "nice guy attitude" vs. being assertive and not giving a shit about the girl. He knew that the first app…	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/03/22 05:45 PM
3	I wrote an anthropological master's thesis on MGTOW / Red pill Thank you! I read some of his work but since my thesis is not about the ideology of MGTOW there was no real place for him in it. In a sense, I guess he was in my bibliography, but I could not have included him in my references anyways since his works are pseudo-academic (?)	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/03/22 05:36 PM
3	I wrote an anthropological master's thesis on MGTOW / Red pill Well put and thank you so much!	/r/PurplePillDebate	07/03/22 05:31 PM
2	I wrote an anthropological master's thesis on MGTOW / Red pill :) Thank you!	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/03/22 06:50 PM
5	I wrote an anthropological master's thesis on MGTOW / Red pill Thesis has already been written man! Anything in it that you thought was interesting/idiotic?	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/03/22 06:47 PM
4	I wrote an anthropological master's thesis on MGTOW / Red pill Thank you so much for this!!!	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/03/22 06:46 PM
4	I wrote an anthropological master's thesis on MGTOW / Red pill Thank you!!!	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/03/22 06:45 PM
4	I wrote an anthropological master's thesis on MGTOW / Red pill Well, red pill is a short term but it means an awful lot more than just those two words doesn't it! Etic/emic are super central words in anthropology so there are obviously tons and tons of stuff written about it. Really fascinating actually	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/03/22 06:45 PM
6	I wrote an anthropological master's thesis on MGTOW / Red pill I understand it's a long read. You could always skip to the conclusion if you want the general stuff. I do have some questions for you all, which I think are very relevant seeing the online aspect of this forum. Other research on MGTOW & my informants suggest that the online content is produced by a vocal minority within MGTOW. Some of my informants even argue that being online can be understood as still being stuck in the Red Pill Rage, or not having experienced a "second awakening" (more on th…	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/03/22 06:42 PM
3	I wrote an anthropological master's thesis on MGTOW / Red pill Well I was really nervous going against the major feminist narrative at first. Everyone I spoke to about the subject of the thesis reacted in the same way: "Oh wow youre spending time with pathetic angry men? Aren't you scared?". But, as soon as I started to explain my interest andmy findings, people got interested and engaged.	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/03/22 06:27 PM
3	I wrote an anthropological master's thesis on MGTOW / Red pill Thank you so much for writing this! This topic is basically the focal point of my interest in MGTOW. To be honest, my interest is not really in MGTOW. I kinda used MGTOW as a vehicle through which I could talk about problematic issues of truth, discourse and how to perceive people with deviant worldviews (especially within academia)	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/03/22 06:24 PM
2	I wrote an anthropological master's thesis on MGTOW / Red pill Well, it all depends on what the purpose of the study is. My study is not about fact-checking any narratives, or postulating any truth - it's about quite the opposite. The construction of truth is a very central aspect in my thesis, and I hope you managed to read at least some parts of chapter 2. Here I think of the discussion about the docile body, the prohibition of certain topics and how people with deviant opinions are understood as mad. I think the world has had enough of truth claims, to b…	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/03/22 06:19 PM
5	I wrote an anthropological master's thesis on MGTOW / Red pill I hope you read the part where I criticize the MIC-concept through my informants accounts. Although it is quite useful to think with, I do not think the concept encapsulates what is going on. Tbh, I was not happy at all in the beginning when I started using it in the thesis. Luckily, I managed to twist it around to show it's not really accurate. Kimmel was actually one of the researchers I emailed, and he replied after a few days thanking me for sending him the thesis. Here's his somewhat empty …	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/03/22 06:04 PM
3	I wrote an anthropological master's thesis on MGTOW / Red pill Oh this is new! Cannot imagine my written words being spoken out loud. I hope the narrator adds a mighty and powerful tone in its the voice when speaking the slightly cheesy ending	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/03/22 05:49 PM
2	I wrote an anthropological master's thesis on MGTOW / Red pill Wow, thank you so much for the kind words! I'm actually super bad at formatting word-documents. I think I spent about 5 hours on doing the table of contents. But glad you appreciated it!	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/03/22 05:42 PM
4	I wrote an anthropological master's thesis on MGTOW / Red pill Awesome!	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/03/22 05:41 PM
5	I wrote an anthropological master's thesis on MGTOW / Red pill Fun! Feel free to message me if you want more info on anything	/r/PurplePillDebate	06/03/22 05:40 PM