arnleif Archive

Upvotes	Title	Category	Author	Subreddit	Date (UTC)
19	Feminist With Some Concerns	Discussion	arnleif	/r/MensRights	28/05/14 01:53 AM

Upvotes	Comment on	Subreddit	Date (UTC)
1	Feminist With Some Concerns Internet feminism can be a huge problem, and I think this is also where I reserve most of my frustration. The whole medium seems opposed to critical thinking and in favor of quick and easy brainlessness (one of the reasons why I was hesitant to start this thread), but occasionally I am proven wrong (thanks, all!). There is a larger sense that men aren't to be trusted with gender issues. And as groups expand they reach a certain threshold and suddenly the hateful elements show up and men are eith…	/r/MensRights	29/05/14 04:25 AM
2	Feminist With Some Concerns I think you are spot on, and the emotional aspect behind social alienation and joining a community is one that I should not (but sometimes) neglect. You provide a welcomed reminder. <Emotional time for me> I don't think I have ever been engrained in a group; though I'm feminine, I've never been wholly comfortable with women, though I'm a scientist, I am frustrated with the scientific community, though I'm a feminist, I don't see eye to eye or feel the camaraderie that I should. This is perhaps w…	/r/MensRights	29/05/14 04:07 AM
1	Feminist With Some Concerns Wow, what an excellent and well structured reply—this is one that I may archive to read over again. I'm taken aback by your careful analysis. I'm going to find it hard to contribute much, but here we go: I think you are spot on with our inescapable tendency to categorize, and this tendency is not always dangerous. It is simply a way to organize chaos (it's what we do in science, after all! I'm a biologist, and I would get no where sorting through different microbes if I paid attention to every n…	/r/MensRights	29/05/14 03:55 AM
1	Feminist With Some Concerns I think you're mistaken about what antagonism necessarily implies. Far from discouraging critical thinking and opposing ideas, adversarial modes require arming yourself with knowledge about your opponents. Far from promoting stagnation, adversarial antagonism has been the source of most intellectual and moral development. The idea that an adversarial stance is somehow a negative thing, is just unsubstantiated. Absolutely, and that is not the antagonism that I'm opposing. We are using the same wo…	/r/MensRights	29/05/14 03:32 AM
2	Feminist With Some Concerns I will check it out, thank you.	/r/MensRights	29/05/14 03:06 AM
2	Feminist With Some Concerns It seems so simple! Thank you for the refreshing reminder.	/r/MensRights	29/05/14 03:06 AM
1	Feminist With Some Concerns Yes, I am not a part of academic feminism, and I don't know what it's about. I've heard many bad things, though, and I am definitely inclined to agree. The whole idea of academic feminism seems disturbing to me, anyway, for reasons I haven't investigated fully yet. I have also seen a number of the protests that you might be referring to, and I could not imagine anything more destructively anti-academic.	/r/MensRights	29/05/14 03:04 AM
1	Feminist With Some Concerns Well, "women" don't, because I don't. Let's be careful not to generalize, lest we imagine our enemies are greater than they really are. But I absolutely agree with where you're going. I believe that society forcefully encourages men to keep their problems to themselves, and this is to the disadvantage of both men and women. I am utterly disgusted by that quote (and thank you for supplying it), and many other women in my close circle of friends would share this moral outrage. It is something that…	/r/MensRights	29/05/14 03:00 AM
2	Feminist With Some Concerns An excellent insight into the issue, and one I think is correct. I resist the idea of "patriarchy" as misleading and poisonous—it's a way of ordering society and history that predisposes the results we're going to obtain from studying it. In other words, it creates patterns that are not there. Additionally, it is nearly impossible to see the world from another lens once engrained with the patriarchy dogma. I am happy to hear that there are healthy discussions; I am brand new to this form and end…	/r/MensRights	29/05/14 02:54 AM
1	Feminist With Some Concerns Again, my definition of a feminist is "a person who has concern for the social situation of women, especially with regard to increasing the variety of options for women in society." Let's stick to that, please, lest we be equivocating. And also by my definition, advocating for women's rights is equal to the goals of feminism. So in that case, I do have to "fly the feminist flag." I do not know how I feel about "flying the feminist flag," though, because that seems to be an attempt to associate m…	/r/MensRights	29/05/14 02:36 AM
2	Feminist With Some Concerns Your reply was highly emotional and I don't appreciate that. If you are trying to offend me for attempting to talk about something that I think is important, that's not advancing you're movement or my enlightenment of it. It is replies like this that discourage people from talking to one another about volatile and difficult issues. Regarding your first comment, I am vehemently opposed to suppressing male abuse victims and also to ignoring female abusers. I am also under the impression that femin…	/r/MensRights	29/05/14 02:30 AM
1	Feminist With Some Concerns Your remarks are interesting and well taken, but my experiences with feminism have in general not been so radical. But I have met individuals with whom I've had a seriously difficult time talking with about these issues (totaling 5), and they are minorities out of the majority of stable and levelheaded feminists I have met. Unfortunately, the radical ones are more inclined to pursue political platforms (blogs, media, television), and so they gain a sinister hold over feminism as a whole. Their v…	/r/MensRights	29/05/14 02:18 AM
1	Feminist With Some Concerns Thank you, and I appreciate the invitation.	/r/MensRights	29/05/14 02:01 AM
1	Feminist With Some Concerns I hope I'm not poking fun at any person, but thank you for the good reminder just incase I've slipped up. I have heard some shaky things about that sub, and my comment was only based on that prejudice. Naturally I don't have the insider's take so my opinions can only be taken lightly. I will continue to have compassion and encouragement for anyone who has struggled significantly in life. That said, I have traditionally avoided any domain where I'm told volatile people lie, not out of disrespect …	/r/MensRights	29/05/14 01:56 AM
9	Feminist With Some Concerns Disclaimer: I'm exhausted and my brain is shutting down. But this is exciting so I'll give it my best. And worse yet, curious feminists who ask us what our problem with feminism is, as though by not being a part of it, we're broken somehow; then when we tell them about our experiences, they tell us that, "Not All Feminists Are Like That." Ignoring, of course, that the ones like that are entrenched in academia, politics, journalism, and popular social media. Thanks for this—it's an honest critiqu…	/r/MensRights	28/05/14 06:15 AM
6	Feminist With Some Concerns Good, I should clarify: by "I do not see this discussion between women's and men's rights as antagonistic," I meant that it ought not to be antagonistic. In reality, it is highly antagonistic (and that is the motivation for my post—indeed I've encountered it in what I had hoped would be those fun discussions you've referred to). But I've also encountered many positive response from the narrow feminist community existing in my school; that is, when I have attempted to address the male perspective…	/r/MensRights	28/05/14 05:42 AM
1	Feminists highjack what should be a Mental Health issue. Absolutely true, and it seems even darker considering that we unavoidably write our own versions of reality to make meaning of the chaos around us. Still, it's our duty to call out the bullshit when we see it, and people can occasionally be awakened out of narrow perspectives. I'll cling to this optimism!	/r/MensRights	28/05/14 05:00 AM
4	Feminist With Some Concerns I tend to avoid most emotional banter—it tends to annoy me and do little else. I get the reason for it, I get that people are upset and may deserve to be, but I just can't do anything with it or for it. I'm a person, too, and though I do my best to be level it can get difficult when folks push hard. So I appreciate the warning and the diversity of opinion; I may visit when I'm feeling especially chill and curious!	/r/MensRights	28/05/14 04:53 AM
3	Forget being positive. This is a street fight. What I meant by that last post was that your comment didn't have an argument behind it. So what if they were zealots? What are you saying about that? Do you want me to do your work for you? Fine... (I'm getting tired and crabby and I need to go to bed, so I might abandon this). Basically, the fact that they're zealots doesn't mean that zealotry is not dangerous. Also, we're equivocating here. All I'm saying is that it's irrational to be overly emotional and reactionary. Now who can't agree with …	/r/MensRights	28/05/14 04:45 AM
1	The Confirmation Bias I never said you that you never said that he wasn't a prick, either! :D	/r/MensRights	28/05/14 04:40 AM
7	Feminists highjack what should be a Mental Health issue. Excellent reply, and one that I can get behind. I completely agree that the shooter was also highly misanthropic against men, but glossing through his video and manifesto reveals to me that this hatred was contingent on their ability to get women over him (women are still the core issue here, and that's how it would support the feminist critique). To take the issue further, though, the men he hates are successful in their gender role while he is not. In this case, we can move well beyond the rea…	/r/MensRights	28/05/14 04:38 AM
3	Forget being positive. This is a street fight. You might want to complete your argument before you hit post.	/r/MensRights	28/05/14 04:25 AM
3	The Confirmation Bias Exact same situation here, except the Santa Barbra shooter is still a little prick.	/r/MensRights	28/05/14 04:24 AM
3	Forget being positive. This is a street fight. Zealotry, in general, is poisonous and the enemy of free thought and rights of any sort. Take care to avoid it.	/r/MensRights	28/05/14 04:19 AM
7	Feminist With Some Concerns If men's rights are feminism are opposing, how can you explain my concern for my own sex as well as the male sex? I think that people who want to critically think about (seemingly) opposing ideas should be encouraged rather than discouraged, lest we become intellectually and morally stagnate. Whatever your answer is to this, I will continue to advocate for men that suffer from gender issues as well as women, and encourage others to do so as well. All in all, I agree that men's issues are serious…	/r/MensRights	28/05/14 04:08 AM
7	Feminist With Some Concerns Brilliant response—feminism has owned any gender discussion, and it has written the narrative that all gender issues follow. Really excellent ideas. But I don't believe that feminism is to blame for all you mentioned—men enforce men's silence about suffering and gender issues just as much as feminists have (even before feminism emerged), and so I think that something else is at play here. I think that feminists (at least ones like me) and men's right's activist are actually responding to the sam…	/r/MensRights	28/05/14 04:04 AM
10	I thought this sub was a little inflammatory and somewhat overblown. Then I mentioned a story I read here to my wife. Her reaction wasn't what I thought it was going to be. My take on why it sounds absurd to her is that no one in "mainstream" society talks about men's issues, and so there is no meaningful narrative for her to draw on and make sense of. I hope to doubt that her reaction is not from lacking empathy, but instead it is reflecting the default cultural reality where men aren't allowed to suffer (and certainly can't express their suffering). Sharing personal experiences with men's issues may help awaken this reality for her.	/r/MensRights	28/05/14 03:56 AM
1	The Elliot Rodgers incident There are no excuses for a women doing something harmful to another man, period. That said, the Rodger's incident was motivated largely out of frustration over women; just look at his video or read his personal autobiography, if you can get through such mind-numbing boloney. Something like, if "one pretty girl paid attention to me, the day of retribution wouldn't have happened." That's where this media coverage is coming from, but of course I don't think it's an issue of misogyny any more than i…	/r/MensRights	28/05/14 03:44 AM
4	You know what really disgusts me? Male feminists. I get male feminists in the way that I'm a woman and I support men's rights. I care about the experience of the other sex. Atheist and friendly feminist pride here, too.	/r/MensRights	28/05/14 03:34 AM
1	Feminist With Some Concerns I would read it only for humor! I don't consider them related to MRA, though I have heard them used almost interchangeably on other sites. It's a good disclaimer, though.	/r/MensRights	28/05/14 03:24 AM
7	Feminist With Some Concerns The "men and boys are told their whole lives that their feelings are not worthwhile so they internalize it and it eventually either destroys them or the people they care about." was pretty poignant, and I along with a few other feminists and others I know identify this as a social reality that demands attention. That said, remember that I am only defining feminism in the sense that it applies to me as the very narrow, "someone who cares about women and is interested in advancing their options in…	/r/MensRights	28/05/14 03:22 AM
5	Feminist With Some Concerns Will do, thank you.	/r/MensRights	28/05/14 03:14 AM
3	Feminist With Some Concerns Excellent advice; I tend to (or just have in the past) stayed away from forums centered around ideals because it's easy to excite people and the communication seems altogether bad (this is seriously my first forum post since I've been in high school), so I've kept it mostly in personal circles and in feminist groups around my college. Most of the women who are feminists tend to be curious, at least, of what I have to say about seriously considering men's issues, and the more mature ones apprecia…	/r/MensRights	28/05/14 03:09 AM
2	Feminist With Some Concerns Oh no, it's miscommunication on my part. This is my first job on the day for this website, and I'll learn how to read it through in time. Thanks for pointing this out.	/r/MensRights	28/05/14 02:58 AM
8	Feminist With Some Concerns Yes! That's actually how I came to this site, out of curiosity. I am aware of many feminist groups that do this, and that is partly why I made this post. If its content is interpreted as frustration for the men's rights community, it is not; it is frustration for the feminist community. I have certainly encountered my fair share of brainless hate mongers, and so far I have not found this sub to be among them. Thank you for the clarification.	/r/MensRights	28/05/14 02:52 AM
2	Feminist With Some Concerns You've really lost me. I don't have any hidden agenda other than to see if there are others that think the way I do about this issue. If not, then it would be interesting to understand why. If so, then it would be interesting to understand why. I have never spoken to a men's rights community before; I have only discussed it with my friends and significant other. I made no attempt to herald myself as some supreme men's right's, mostly because I am new to the very idea. Your post, if anything, is …	/r/MensRights	28/05/14 02:49 AM
5	Feminist With Some Concerns Dude, you're part of the problem if you're assuming that I'm a liar because I identify as someone who (from above) "has concern for the social situation of women, especially with regard to increasing the variety of options for women in society." It would be particularly remarkable for me, as a women, not to care where I end up in society because of my gender. That said, there are many feminist platforms I vehemently disagree with, and we are likely partners in that. Ultimately we are both people…	/r/MensRights	28/05/14 02:43 AM
1	Feminist With Some Concerns Oh man, I've got to read that sub sometime.	/r/MensRights	28/05/14 02:32 AM
4	Feminist With Some Concerns Did I downvote something? I just opened this account, and am brand new to the interface. But I don't remember doing that, for sure.	/r/MensRights	28/05/14 02:26 AM
11	Feminist With Some Concerns I appreciate it, but I don't know if I deserve the compliment. I may get burned out, but it's easier for a women to do this than a man in feminism so I have an edge. Thanks though, and best to you too.	/r/MensRights	28/05/14 02:21 AM
6	Feminist With Some Concerns Could you give me context for this post so I can know whether or not to care about it? Lol	/r/MensRights	28/05/14 02:18 AM
4	Feminist With Some Concerns Did you read my original post, or are you trolling? If you have read my post, can you define how I am an extremist? Lol at your latest edits.	/r/MensRights	28/05/14 02:14 AM
17	Feminist With Some Concerns That's where my boyfriend and I are, actually; both of us have made multiple and ongoing attempts with feminists to discuss this, and have been met with success but also with disdain. My boyfriend has been called misogynist by several reactive people, simply for explaining that men wrestle with social norms, too, in concerning ways. No doubt I have made enemies as well. I am not stopping, though, because I am tired of feminists labeling anyone who stands up for men the enemy. This is a easy and …	/r/MensRights	28/05/14 02:08 AM
27	Feminists highjack what should be a Mental Health issue. I don't see this simply as an "x" issue. Let's move beyond guns, beyond mental health, beyond misogyny, beyond entitlement. Reality is complicated, and let's respond to it intelligently. And different people have different narratives for how the world is put together. There is no surprise that a feminist will view this as an act of misogyny, or a gun control lobbyist will view this as another example of why gun violence is rampant. These critics are not attempting or engaging in exploitation (as…	/r/MensRights	28/05/14 02:01 AM