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badsign12 Archive

View 3 posts and 349 comments by badsign12 on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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1

What happened and how did the the red pill explain it?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/22 08:50 PM
0

That those things likely make you more appealing is a revelation?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/22 07:53 PM
0

I take it you're something of a proponent? Do you accept the Red Pill whole, or slect the aspects that seem valid?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/22 07:23 PM
1

Regarding what matters to women's attraction, the downplaying of traits that are attractive usually occurs after a man has said he lacks the trait and is there fore greatly disadvantaged. Or totally fucked. Would you rather they agree that he's fucked? That's almost never true, and while being short creates a challenge, most short men overcome it.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/22 07:21 PM
2

I didn't offer a specific solution because I don't believe there is one solution. Sometimes there's not a real problem, just one that's being marketed as a problem when it's just pretty much how things are. Some men could improve their appearance with minimal effort. Some could b more open and engaging. Some could be more dynamic or interesting. And sometimes, the solution is to adjust your expectations. Not always, but sometimes. For example when a man says his looks hold him back because he's …
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/22 07:17 PM
0

"....women are actually designed by nature to have way more sex wjth way more men then they actually do. And it has little to do with their biology and more to do with the quality of men who are out there for them to pick from." How do you define quality?
/r/PurplePillDebate07/12/22 07:02 PM
10

Even thinking very categorically, there's at least a third group, which is guys who have some relationship success, but that success is somewhat contingent on their life circumstances. The better those circumstances (mental health, physical health/fitness, good life balance) the more likely they have success. It's not guaranteed, but more likely. That's most men, where what they do has some impact on their success socially, as opposed to your "success regardless" and "struggle regardless" groups…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/12/22 05:04 PM
1

First, why are you still with her? Second, no one should pay for the sins of their current partner's ex. Many people had a shitty ex. Were supposed to learn what we can from the experience and then assimilate it. That's hard to do, but your a shit partner yourself until you do it. Case in point, your story.
/r/ExRedPill02/12/22 04:23 PM
2

Seems very "just world".
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/22 04:47 PM
3

I think there’s a lot more emotional need that goes into it than sexual and if men really thought about it, they’d see that side of things more. That could be a healthy outcome from thinking critically (deeper) about what they (we) want/need. If I focus more on the emotional need I'm trying to meet I might see a different woman as a good partner, as opposed to being focused n sex. I might also realize that while I prefer to have those emotional needs met by a woman in a romantic relationship, th…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/22 04:46 PM
2

most people want a partner thats reasonably normal they're attracted to thats also attracted to them, and who wants to engage in a relationship in good faith. But women seem to want that less. Or seem more content, less desperate, when they don't have it. I think it would be healthy for men and really for women if men were more content outside relationships and when sex isn't available (readily) to them.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/22 10:37 PM
2

So men want something you believe they won't get, or most won't. If you're right, why don't men see this? I think it's because they aren't really considering what a relationship, and hence a woman, really offers. If he did he might still see the offer as valuable and possibly alter his general approach to dating accordingly, or he might focus on more short term relationships.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/22 10:31 PM
2

The 3 ideas, family-companionship-sex are examples of what I sense men ought to question. For example, becoming parents can put a real strain on a couple's sex life and that seems to surprise or irritate men. Companionship can come from other men or platonic relationships with women.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/22 09:57 PM
1

Is men becoming more picky a problem?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/22 09:51 PM
2

The question is what would change for men or for dating in general if men thought more about the why or the whether of dating and relationships. My assumption based on experience is that they're not doing this now, at least not most men.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/22 09:46 PM
1

I agree that it's not about valid or fair so much as it is about demeaning people who lack the trait you prefer, overtly or even a bit covertly like entering a discussion where a woman is sensitive about her weight and stating that you prefer thin women, or where a man sensitive about his height and you prefer tall men. Sometimes your preference is hurtful if stated. Also considering is how your preference functions? Do you find yourself attracted to people who don't have that preferred trait or…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/11/22 08:11 PM
1

You're right about the data, though a woman who finds a man unattractive but deigns to date him anyway isn't really as lovely as you imply.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/11/22 05:07 PM
2

That men pay a higher price than women do for being awkward rings true. The solution, to learn social skills, is almost axiomatic, so true again. The attribution, that men who struggle do so because they don't want to not struggle, is sometimes not true. Socializing comes with headaches. We all have headaches. Some people have more than their share because they won't do some common sense things like prioritizing sleep, drinking less, eating better, etc. to control their headaches. Some won't tak…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/11/22 08:05 PM
1

It's a little weird, but it's a common enough complaint. It's usually women bemoaning the quality of men, but still common.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/10/22 07:01 PM
5

if im being honest it stems a bit from jealousy that women can bang whoever and men cant and its just a bad mindset to have that my gf will go get gangbanged any second its ruining me. Then won't this be a concern that impacts any relationship you might enter? This isn't about your gf or what she might do if single, but about your general concerns about women's sexual options. I actually understand your concerns, but resolving them to the point where they don't frequently trouble you is way more…
/r/ExRedPill27/10/22 03:49 PM
5

The OP is determining who he might be interested in, and not who might give him a chance. I don't share most of his preferences, but I'm not him. I think his approach is healthy. And considering his last question regarding whether he sucks at OLD, avoiding people you don't think are right for you is the most important measure of success, even if that means he doesn't succeed in getting some woman to date him.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/10/22 02:17 PM
10

If she had been more attractive and you had forgiven her poor character, would you be happier? Better off? Would she?
/r/PurplePillDebate25/10/22 01:13 PM
1

You seem really invested in that line of thought. Even if there's some very limited truth to it, it's not a healthy thing to focus on.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/10/22 07:53 PM
11

You chose a questionable study, and with your research skills surely you knew that. Only conclusion is that you posted in bad faith.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/10/22 12:52 PM
9

Good discussion. I have two points that I believe are overlooked parts of the general thesis put forth. The first is that along with a decline in church membership, there's a steeper decline in small institutions that especially served men. Things like Knights of Columbus, which is catholic, but also service clubs like the Elks or Masons have declined very steeply. Same with trade union membership. And 50 years ago men from 20 to 80 were far more likely to have served in the military. These are …
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/22 07:27 PM
24

I'm male, but MGTOW proponents so often come off like a child ignoring another child. When the "ignored" kid is well over it, the ignoring kid seeks him out to tell him he's still ignoring him. And then does this every few minutes. It's almost like the kid trying to ignore the other doesn't know what the word means.
/r/ExRedPill13/10/22 02:21 PM
4

I think you're right about humiliation being the message and motivation to follow, but you dismiss the counter example of nice guys to quickly. And identifying specific women is more vicious, but it does better define who and what behavior is being attacked. Nice guys can be just about anyone. It also seems that the men who want to humiliate women are punching up. Rightly or wrongly, and on balance wrongly, they see women as privileged and in need of a reality check. But women, and men, who dump…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/10/22 01:56 PM
8

Average people living good lives transcend their averageness.
/r/ExRedPill07/10/22 02:37 PM
3

Which for people who aren't real secure creates kind of an arms race. Even if they fight off the media messaging, they may notice a friend who lost weight or got a makeover or got more buff and feel like they could get left behind. That fear sells.
/r/ExRedPill07/10/22 02:36 PM
5

Outstanding post, poppy_blue.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/10/22 05:16 PM
1

you have to rely on intuition, perception, awareness, and a "count it all joy" optimistic spirit. That’s life and being okay with finding your niche and the peace of mind of knowing that you've "optimized what ya mama gave ya," and what you’re able to attract is going to have to be good enough. This is the secret to every life endeavor. And a state of mind most people will struggle to achieve their entire life. Almost like it's nature's cruel joke.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/10/22 04:04 PM
1

I agree, but I don't think most men are "winning" either. None of us can have nice things.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/10/22 03:20 PM
0

I just did, didn't I?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/10/22 07:10 PM
6

I agree that "society" doesn't hold the direct solution to men's dating issues. And by "society" I'm talking about programs and policies the sole purpose of which is to enhance men's dating lives. I can't support that. However, societal changes are contributing to those issues. Men are failing to thrive in areas besides dating, and those areas can be addressed on societal/policy level. And some men, some people, will always struggle. But whatever # will inevitably stumble and fall, some addition…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/10/22 04:09 PM
1

You did say that the guy doing a bit more early, in your experience, shows interest on his part. I actually think that makes sense (I'm male), but some men based on their experience might respond defensively. I'm curious though what you do early on that a man you're dating might interpret as genuine interest? We often need a little sign too.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/09/22 01:26 PM
3

Exactly. I'm male but the idea is fucking repugnant.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/09/22 04:55 PM
1

I know you want to feel like a victim but you're not one That seems like name calling, rather than discussing or debating. I'm a little surprised. So you know, I'm in a relationship and have been for all but a few months for my entire adult life. I'm older though, and the #s we see now regarding relationships were different when I was in my 20s and 30s. Times were different. I think a lot of things have changed, most for the better. Some of the beneficial changes though are zero sum. There have …
/r/PurplePillDebate28/09/22 05:54 PM
0

How long is "a bit"? Other data shows that significantly more men than women go through their 20s without having any sexual or romantic experience or having very little. Can you see that might be hard for a man to deal with?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/09/22 04:41 PM
2

Those #s paint a pretty bleak picture for young men. 51% of men 18-29 are single, compared to 32% of women. 27% of men 30-49 are single, compared to 19% of women. I think it's true that women deal with being single better than men do, on average. I would suspect that a higher % of single men than women are struggling with their status. Do you think that research supports your argument?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/09/22 04:34 PM
1

I think his desire to have it acknowledged is futile, not because women are bad or incapable of empathy but because people are pretty insular and men and women tend toward being defensive in discussions about our different experiences. And I agree that his practical challenge might not change if he felt that it was more understood, but feeling better understood might lessen the emotional weight of the challenge he faces.
/r/ExRedPill28/09/22 03:06 PM
1

Generally, supporting people's personal choices when those choices hurt no one is worth doing. If a person isn't interested in sex they can have a perfectly fulfilling life without it. Same if the person isn't interested in a romantic relationship the way those are typically defined. Those life experiences shouldn't be pushed or exalted, and people shouldn't be stigmatized for their choice to not engage in them. This is true whether a person wants sex or a relationship and can't make it happen, …
/r/ExRedPill28/09/22 02:58 PM
10

True. The second classic blunder is saying that statistics tell you nothing about what an individual will do. There is an inductive case to be made from these stats, though, if a lasting marriage is a major concern for a man. John wants to form a happy, lasting marriage free of infidelity. There is some evidence that the # of sex partners a woman has had is positively correlated with her marital dissatisfaction and/or infidelity. Therefore, John should only marry a woman with X or fewer previous…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/09/22 02:31 PM
1

That's not the past I'm concerned about. It's the past that makes us cynical or over cautious.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/09/22 09:54 PM
0

I think it would be a fresh start for everyone. I agree that some people have benefitted from their experience, but I think more have been harmed or had their perspective skewed negatively. On balance I think it would be a benefit
/r/PurplePillDebate22/09/22 09:53 PM
1

One of the things people you might call blue pilled have in common is that they haven't struggled or have stopped struggling to accept their own attractiveness. Outliers aside, how attractive I am has a big influence on how attractive the women who might be interested in me will be. This is generally true. People who are not very conventionally attractive react to this mainly in a number of ways. Some almost seamlessly gravitate toward people actually likely open to them. Some make this adjustme…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/09/22 09:40 PM
1

Having all our relationship memories erased, like with the thingy in Men in Black. All our personal relationship baggage and the collective baggage we seem to borrow even if we've never experienced it. And wipe the internet clean of all but purely informational stuff like IMDB or Baseball Reference and maybe recipes. Porn would be back in about a day and a half, so no worries there.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/09/22 09:00 PM
4

Gonial angle too. I thought I had my canthal tilt all sorted out but then discovered that my gonial angle is sub optimal, so, you know, it's over.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/09/22 06:53 PM
0

Like looters.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/09/22 07:28 PM
1

No. Feminists robbed us of our essence through their propaganda and the government's complicity in adding fluoride to the water, which of course is meant to sap us and impurify our precious bodily fluids. You can look it up.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/09/22 07:26 PM
2

Who is in your relationships pool? Is it made up entirely of "dudes without jobs or cars"? If there are other more relationship capable men in your relationship pool, why not focus on those men?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/09/22 06:50 PM
7

And watching NASCAR is the best way to learn to drive.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/09/22 04:18 PM
10

I think you're right.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/22 08:59 PM
-2

I don't think the linked study demonstrates what the OP thinks it does, but even if it did, your point is valid.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/22 08:58 PM
2

My bad. Sarcasm doesn't register well in text.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/22 08:44 PM
2

apartment He has an apartment? Thought you said he wasn't rich SMH.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/22 05:18 PM
-1

I may be wrong, but it looked like he made the analogy to an issue that affected women and which was taken very seriously on a system level. With good results. And he mentioned a life area where women were helped and where men now lag behind. Maybe I'm being too generous in my interpretation, but maybe you're being too cautious. In other comments in this thread I advocate for helping men be better people. Some men, seemingly more men than women, aren't figuring this out on their own. Whatever we…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/09/22 04:55 PM
1

I think he's noting that men aren't attending college at the rates women do. You made the education sex connection.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/09/22 04:36 PM
–

The implied and sometimes explicit threat is a major cringe moment for me as a man, too. I think the best thing we can do, and by best I mean the most I can ethically support and best in the sense of most likely to succeed, is to help men be better people. I'm not sure it matters why, but men as a group are not thriving. Maybe there's some mass hysteria that's messing with our minds, or maybe there are structural, systemic issues we could address that might help young men thrive. Even if you som…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/09/22 04:26 PM
1

I think women have a role to play, but if you want to set this one out, please do.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/09/22 04:11 PM
–

To be clear, men don't need to do anything.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/09/22 04:10 PM
13

For people who have resisted therapy for whatever reason, admitting that it might be a good option takes some courage. Well done.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/09/22 03:03 PM
5

I think feminism and girlboss memes send a message that upon consideration, has some merit. If women are staying single because men aren't good looking enough then that seems kind of self absorbed. Lots of men and women could do with a glow up. But if women are saying that men need to be better people or better partners, I have some sympathy (I'm male). Plenty of women are crap people, but I know more women who are trying to make a partnership work and do so with their partner's needs in the mix…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/09/22 03:40 PM
1

No I wouldn't. If I'm following your argument though, you seem to be saying that not only do you understand why someone with Autism is unpopular, but that it's just the way it is and those of us who treat people with Autism something like those belonging to a lower caste are justified because it's "how humans work".
/r/PurplePillDebate12/09/22 03:27 PM
3

Like a caste system, with some people untouchable.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/09/22 02:16 PM
1

First, you seem to like to label people. They're Autistic, Sociopathic, or have main character syndrome. I haven't read all your comments, so maybe there are more? Just an observation, but there's probably a label that applies to people who insist on applying labels. And how is a person who's struggling necessarily lacking in empathy. They may be. Struggling in some important life area can lead to focusing too much on it, which can be counterproductive. But even that isn't a sign of a lack of em…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/09/22 02:51 PM
3

Well adjusted people are happy choosing from among the options actually available to them. It might be the best definition of well adjusted. It's not settling in the sense of "I'll just take what I can get". Someone who says that is by definition not well adjusted, and I feel for the person they lower themselves to be with. Central to this idea of choice is that saying no to available options if they aren't what you want is a legit choice.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/09/22 01:59 PM
5

They're not brainwashed. They are given permission to believe that looks matter significantly less to women than they do to men, though. Men don't have to believe this. I'm 64 and there's never been a day the past 50 years when I thought looks didn't matter about as much to women as to men, but if a man goes looking for the message that it's all about character or talent or some other something that seems more substantial, he doesn't have to look long. Those messages aren't lurking out there for…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/08/22 03:13 PM
2

Why we can't have nice things, like bro jobs
/r/PurplePillDebate30/08/22 10:11 PM
9

Doing the math, that leaves 62 possibilities from one day on tinder for the OP as herself, as opposed to 2 as a guy. I don't know what any of that means, but it's a little daunting.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/08/22 09:41 PM
4

It always helps to be fit, to have some friends of each sex, and to do things you're passionate about aside from work. If you're conventionally attractive, that's a real good start. If you're not so conventionally attractive, I think two things can help. People who aren't so good looking often develop a style that makes them even less noticeable, trying to hide some feature (s) or maybe their entire self. Wearing dull colors or dull styles or clothes that are 2 sizes too big. I think it's fair t…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/08/22 01:41 PM
2

"This looks clean enough, but for men looking to date women today (many of whom have ideas somewhat similar to what's in the linkedin posts), the messaging is a bit confusing. Don’t be aggressive, but be assertive, insistently so when necessary Don’t physically dominate others, but be physically dominant Don’t talk over or aggressively challenge women, but speak up for yourself when you have a disagreement Don’t be emotionally repressed, but don’t give women more “emotional labor” than they alre…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/08/22 05:34 PM
2

Like a pyramid scheme.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/08/22 02:23 PM
3

This is the flipside of "assholes do well with women". It's not because those men are assholes, but because they have other traits that draw women to them, often while they behave reasonably well (masking their asshole self). Intelligent men who struggle do so because of other traits associated with being exceptionally bright. Things like being too focused on academics in school, to the detriment of their social development. Their interests as adults may be narrowly focused. Not necessarily in a…
/r/ExRedPill28/08/22 03:33 PM
1

Many introverts have decent social lives. They've learned to accept and work with the limitations introversion places on their social lives. It's like someone who isn't up to running for exercise, but can comfortably walk 3 miles at a decent pace. They won't be an elite aerobic athlete, but they can meet their fitness needs quite well if they accept the limits and work with them. Many people still use introversion and socially anxious interchangeably.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/08/22 02:57 PM
7

I'm not sure the concern is that a woman doesn't care about us, it's that it's that maybe she's not that attracted. I don't claim to be certain that's what happens, but that's how it lays out in theory.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/08/22 08:28 PM
3

The word "nice" has pretty much been co-opted out of any usefulness. Kind and respectful are terms that better fit and are good traits to have as a man or woman and as a friend or lover.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/08/22 08:00 PM
2

But don't you want your son to leave a mark on history? Seems imbalanced.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/08/22 07:08 PM
12

False on both counts, and thinking of people this way is damaging to everyone. Women are no more mysterious than men, and thinking they are is akin to thinking they're alien or weird. Men benefit from seeing women as mysterious or complex because it lets us off the hook for really engaging with one on a deep level. Women sometimes take comfort in being thought mysterious because it gives them room to maneuver in a relationship. Men aren't simple. Some people think of us as fairly smart dogs, loo…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/08/22 07:05 PM
2

That's a good point. Each is likely a kind of neediness, at least in the extreme..
/r/PurplePillDebate25/08/22 06:43 PM
2

Do you believe there's an imperative to become rich? It's one way but not the only way to measure success. And some people aren't terribly interested in keeping score.
/r/ExRedPill24/08/22 01:57 PM
0

What is RP to you? Is it about self improvement? The nature of women? Both? I don't know if RP is one thing, but from what I can find it seems to be based on some very unflattering and imo unsupportable views of women, with a guide for men to respond to women's "true nature". So what works for you?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/08/22 04:49 AM
3

I suspect that contributes to it a great deal. And by unattractive I assume you mean the word generally, so looks, attitude, social skills, and so on.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/08/22 05:12 PM
2

I think you're on to something, OP. We tend to emphasize the real differences that exist between men and women, and we invent some that don't exist or are so rare as to be not too meaningful. Then when we try to relate, we do the human thing and attribute too much to the real and exaggerated or imagined differences. It gets pretty tribal.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/08/22 02:06 PM
1

I think you're right and you explained it well.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/08/22 01:57 PM
3

But you didn't really describe him as having a decent social life with a few good friends. You described him as having an extraordinary social life. "Incredibly social", "always out there" "big circle of friends". Which is great and probably helped him in a number of ways, but it's not a standard most people can achieve or need to achieve. There's a little bit of space between fabulous and gross.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/08/22 06:31 PM
1

First, I've never seen a more clear example of hypocritical projection than men claiming that women love conditionally and men love unconditionally, except when the bitch gets fat or passes 30. I mean, come the fuck on, guys. On topic, men and women lose some attraction to their partners in most cases. The song you first heard 25 years ago doesn't grab you the way it did then. Our nervous systems and our emotional systems acclimate, whether to a song or a friend or a lover. So even if we stay ex…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/08/22 04:51 PM
35

I certainly don't find 80% of women attractive. Maybe 1 in 20 women really catch my attention. They're stunning looking. Another 3 or 4 are attractive once I notice them. Then another 4 or 5 are or can be attractive if I get to know them. Something like the 3 or 4 above, but the reaction takes longer. My sense is there are about as many stunning looking men, but for the typical woman, there are some but fewer men in the attractive once noticed and attractive once they get to know them. Add group…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/08/22 07:30 PM
2

I appreciate your perspective and the time you took to respond. I could argue against a few points as they apply to me, but my experience may not generalize to other men's, and your points are generally valid. And For anyone is reading this, I don't want to undermine you valid points or feed into some guy's struggles. So thanks again for your response. It gave me and hopefully some others some things to consider.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/22 10:35 PM
1

Lots of replicated studies show that women typically have greater objective (measured physiological response) and subjective reactions to disgusting stimuli than men do. Conventional wisdom and not super robust empirical evidence suggests women are more empathetic than men. So relevant to many discussions here about heterosexual male-female interactions, women are more likely to be disgusted by men around them but have some empathy for those disgusting men. Men are just disgusted by a smaller # …
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/22 04:59 PM
6

Too much info right about now :)
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/22 10:12 PM
15

This comes off as "I'll show you". Generally, being the one who approaches (mostly) comes with challenges. So does being the one who is approached. Whatever role we play, we could be more sensitive to the challenges inherent in the other role. If the OP meant something like that but said this very different thing, then I see his point? Maybe?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/22 04:43 PM
5

Saying the bar is in hell for men has the same effect on some socially challenged men as saying any women can find sex or a relationship has on some socially challenged women. It kind of erases the existence of people who are trying but unsuccessful. Sucky thing to do.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/22 03:12 PM
6

I think you're on target. Some men dress up their concern in terms of having to work harder or invest more and that being unfair, when it's more likely some unresolved feelings about their value. I relate to that as a man who has to work harder or invest more, not because it's unfair or because of the effort per se, but because it seems to loop back to that question of my value. Your point that a woman may be waiting because she wants to invest too sounds valid, but as a man who has never been t…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/22 06:53 PM
5

I think some men think the only option for them is to be the relationship guy. They believe that no woman they're interested in will be attracted enough to them to have sex soon. So in their minds at least, women they're attracted to who won't make them wait don't exist.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/22 04:36 PM
7

It's her choice but accept it? No.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/22 06:57 PM
4

That's true, and it's a shame. But if that person is going to find happiness, don't they need to learn to be more pleasant company? It's a bad news good news deal. The bad news, my social skills suck and no one can help me but me. The good news, I know what the issue is and fortunately it can be improved.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/22 09:30 PM
41

The things the article lists as higher standards are not the things men get vexed about. Seeking emotionally available men who can communicate and share the women's values are exactly the things I look for in a woman. Seems infinitely reasonable. If that's the leveling up men need to do, is it even a question whether they should? Edit to add, for men or women who are lacking in these areas, it's challenging to gain those skills or sufficiently refine them if they're nascent. Sure, therapy can be…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/22 09:12 PM
1

Words to scam live by
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/22 04:33 PM
2

This is a thoughtful and well articulated comment. It genuinely adds to this discussion. I'm male and I believe some men do a lot of theorizing and faux scientific discourse about differences between the men women tend to have casual sex with vs the men they tend to enter LTRs with to avoid saying that they (men) fear being seen as less than by their partner. Men know that the men women have casual sex with are often more physically appealing than the men those women date seriously, because othe…
/r/ExRedPill12/08/22 03:35 PM
1

I get it. You're taking back the sexist tradition by using it to your advantage. Well played.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/22 01:34 PM
2

I think it's rare. I've always paid for most of the entertainment I engaged in with a woman I was dating or in a relationship with. It's not worth pushing the issue. I'm also much older than anyone here, so my early dating involved paying with shells and trinkets. Too much is made of this by both men and women.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/22 01:24 PM
2

Because you're a grown woman with agency? Nah, can't be that.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/22 01:20 PM
3

107% for pump 'n dump.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/22 01:18 PM
2

I accounted for that and that's why I suggested free or nearly free dates. Or, accept paying as part of the deal.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/22 08:09 PM
12

I'm not all red pilled, but I wouldn't go out with a woman a dozen times if nothing fun was happening. If she can resist me that long she's obviously flawed somehow :) Across a series of dates with different women, that could happen. But that's why it's good to do free or nearly free stuff. In my case I'm not looking to impress a woman with cash, so I don't see a downside.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/22 07:01 PM
49

I kind of agree, though being pumped and dumped is considerably more risky than dropping $20-30 on someone's meal. But in concept, I agree. Men should not pay for the date if they're doing so because they think they can't get a date otherwise. Or they should do inexpensive/free things until the somewhat customary sharing of expenses kicks in. Not that $20-30 is expensive, so maybe that's part of the deal. But don't do it out of fear, regardless. And FFS women don't have sex with a guy out of fea…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/22 06:34 PM
3

Guys of average height, looks, weight convincing themselves they’re physically repulsive to women. As a man who roughly fits that description, I've always felt invisible. A lot of men are never told they're attractive except by a current partner, and sometimes not even then. I think men, collectively, make it tough for women to say a kind word lest it be misunderstood, either looking like interest in a man she's no interest in or too bright a green light to a man she might be into. I'm not blami…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/22 06:49 PM
1

I agree with you that the only practical thing a struggling 25 year old can do is to focus on himself (or herself). No one, or no big societal change is coming soon enough to save him, if ever. I understand and to some extent empathize with how frustrating it is to be that person. Even when people are contributing to their struggles, their reality is that nothing seems to work. That's a classic setup for learned helplessness, which becomes self perpetuating. And though I feel for people stuck in…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/22 05:40 PM
5

Best decision I ever made, though it causes me a lot of anxiety.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/22 02:54 PM
2

What do you think would help? I'm not a super frequent participant here so I'm not familiar with your earlier takes.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/22 01:40 PM
1

If I ever ran for office, my slogan would be "A vote for badsign12 is a vote for better problems". I would of course get killed, but better problems are what many of us need.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/22 01:33 PM
2

More Hegel than Marx. Observing what tends to happen, and not justifying goosing the process along.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/22 03:14 AM
9

I see your point. The objective comments, basically describing symptoms a person with Autism may, or may not have, is discussing the issue. Broad generalizations and bitter recountings of bad experiences, not so much.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/22 12:23 AM
47

Gee, to the people making especially harsh comments, do you wonder how someone with Autism might feel reading your words? I'm not Autistic, but I feel the sting. Oh the irony of the stereotype that people with Autism lack empathy.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/22 09:32 PM
4

With the passage of time and the knowledge of what they like gained through experience, it's likely that some women do some things sexually they don't want to repeat. They genuinely change. For women who used to do X or who did it at least once and no longer want to do X, this is probably part of the explanation a high % of the time. Again with the passage of time a woman might be far more sober than they used to be. I'm male, but drunk or high me is quite different from sober me. Lots of people…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/22 09:27 PM
5

Why are you flattered when you're attracted to the person who asks you out. Interested I'd understand, but flattered sounds like you do indeed get something from the asking. And regarding your view, since you are somewhat invested in what people you find attractive think of you, and since men asking you out likely think you're attractive, why not have some concern for their feelings? Seems like the decent thing to do.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/22 09:09 PM
1

One of the social skills socially successful but misogynistic men have is the ability to mask or at least channel their misogyny into something attractive. Men who lack the ability to mask or channel their bad attitude into something appealing are found out more quickly. And of course men who are better looking will, at least at the margins, get a benefit of the doubt. Just like more attractive women will.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/22 01:16 PM
1

When someone says they're trying and cites some of the things they're doing, but expresses frustration like "This should be working. I don't know what to do at this point, and I feel kind of lied to", and people say they're acting entitled or are entitled. That might be the case, and I worded things to show that the person is misguided in their frustration, but it's not that generous to avoid labeling this as entitled. Something like "I shouldn't have to work for this" sounds more deserving of t…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/22 12:30 AM
2

That's true of entitled people. Some % of the time though the word entitled is applied to someone whose genuine and well meaning pursuit fails. Repeated failures can lead to frustration, and a frustrated person can come off as entitled, especially to someone who holds the word entitled like a fly swatter ready to slap anyone who lights near them.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/08/22 09:36 PM
23

-Safety -Being watched constantly, in every sense of that word. -Being pawns politically (not the only group misused that way) To name a few issues.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/07/22 02:04 PM
6

No meaning you understand/agree? Wouldn't that imply that being good and smart don't much matter in dating and relationship decisions some significant # of women make? And crappy guys, who at least some times are obviously crappy to everyone including the woman's women friends, seem to do OK. Maybe I'm wrong. I could have a bias or I could be missing some salient factor. But if I'm not, that kinda sucks.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/22 05:12 PM
5

You're losing me a little here. Men and women who are decidedly not 10s but who are healthy and who genuinely like the person they're dating treat each other like 10s. We're all ( normal looking people) a little wounded by real and imagined expectations about our appearance and the resulting fear that it really matters in some immutable way. Maybe the most loving thing we can do for each other is to say "fuck that", you deserve, I deserve, to be treated like I matter as much as anyone.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/22 03:33 PM
2

We also experience the same food quite differently, leading to preferences and dislikes that are inconsistent from person to person so much so that some people can't understand how someone else can eat olives. I mean I need an explanation for that. But seriously, I think it's a strong analogy. But what is driving the inflation? Hasn't the "price" at the top of the goods market been high since pretty much forever? If I understand correctly that's where the change occurs that is then felt in the r…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/22 03:21 PM
2

Like 80%?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/22 08:49 PM
13

Words have literal meanings, and then they have connotations. In a battle between literal and connotative, connotative wins every time outside some technical context. Average means something more like unspectacular than some measure of central tendency, like the mean, median, or modal value of a set. You can wave a dictionary at someone all you want, but it won't change their understanding, or the typical understanding of a word.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/22 02:35 PM
1

WTF is the auto moderator and why?
/r/PurplePillDebate13/07/22 09:01 PM
2

It's better to be the kind of person some women hate. If every woman hates you, first congrats on that feat, but you're likely an asshole. If every woman is indifferent to you, you're invisible. If some women hate you though, you've given them something of substance to base that judgment on. Good chance some women will be drawn to the traits other women despise. As is true for men.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/07/22 03:14 PM
2

I think we'd discover that 57% of people want to paint the bleakest picture of sex that they can. 62% of men and 51% of women, with men claiming that they have it awful, and women claiming that men are awful.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/22 02:14 PM
1

Not OK. To a slightly lesser extent it's also not OK in same sex or women older pairings.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/22 02:00 PM
6

I think that's the OP's point. Enjoying a pottery class and/or other hobbies and having good friends are part of what makes life worthwhile for most people. It may be all some people need, but for most of us it's a part. I'm not sure self improvement and hobbies are a poor substitute so much as pieces of an incomplete puzzle. And those people who took time off from an active dating life to get their shit together are having a vastly different experience from someone who can't form a relationship…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/06/22 08:57 PM
2

The idea of entitlement and the use of the term is overdone. That being said, to some extent a rose by any other name........ There are unhealthy ongoing levels of frustration, anger, and despondency expressed by men here. Frustration is supposed to make it clear that what you're doing isn't working, which then motivates a different approach or a different priority given to the thing you're attempting. Frustration over dating makes sense to me. Though not in every case, anger about dating often …
/r/PurplePillDebate21/06/22 05:53 PM
3

You're right, but what's an individual man to do? So far the two things that grabbed my attention are, control every other man's app behavior, and look like a guy who wants to "choke a bitch". If I gave a shit I'd be dissapointed.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/06/22 06:48 PM
2

I had luck looking on their site. Its' actually the General Social Survey. The site is difficult for me to navigate, but I'm not very skilled at that sort of thing so you'll likely have better luck. This link might interest you. https://ifstudies.org/blog/male-sexlessness-is-rising-but-not-for-the-reasons-incels-claim It's an interpretation of the result from '18 showing a spike in men's sexlessness and the author addresses the 20-60 number.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/06/22 03:49 PM
6

Do you think my argument, that a select few men have a disproportionate amount of sex or partners, just like a select few women do, is redpilled? And do you think what works for men with a kink necessarily works for men who are pretty mainstream in their sexuality? It doesn't likely. But it does pull the discussion a strong step away from the redpilled notion that only the top 20% of men can succeed in any meaningful way. That's not true and those #s, where 20% of men or women have lots of sex, …
/r/PurplePillDebate16/06/22 03:43 PM
8

Doesn't this fact completely break all the other claims you and others are making? It does. That's why I mentioned it.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/06/22 01:11 PM
1

I think that's a good end to aim for and maybe you idea is a good first step. It seemed a little defiant, and for a man who isn't pretty good with women, defiance can look petulant. However a man get's there though, he is well advised to realize he has value as you say. If that means setting boundaries and doing so upsets a woman he's interested in he's better off without her, and his value isn't less if he ends up alone. It's actually greater when he ends up alone for the right reasons.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/06/22 02:36 AM
40

The General Sociological Survey has been keeping data on our sex lives for half a century. It's run through The University of Chicago, which is a really strong institution. What that survey finds is that 20% of men have about 60% of the sex. I don't love that # because I'm at least a bit outside that 20% unless the state of men is way sorrier than I think. But the sting is, 20% of women also have 60% of the sex. I suspect from my own experience and observation that the 20% of men are disproporti…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/06/22 02:05 AM
1

I agree OP, though I might not define the ways a man can value himself a little less in terms of give and take. Not that your idea is bad, but I think I've been happiest when I didn't give a shit about the "score". Your approach can work for someone who doesn't need tips to date well, but out of the gate for men who have been struggling it could come off like the man is trying to win rather than relate.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/06/22 01:52 AM
5

There are too many variables. Her mood, her recent experience with men or relationships, alcohol, the environment you and she are in in (is it fun, relaxed, is there a general sexual energy) can all be factors. And what a man says, assuming he doesn't scare her off, may matter less than how he says it. Charming and arousing banter (not necessarily sexual) can't hurt. Given that different women will weigh factors differently and that the same women will weigh factors differently today vs tomorrow…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/06/22 04:01 PM
87

I think men as a group agree more on who is extremely attractive. Women as a group have less specific tastes about the most attractive men. But in terms of who they might be interested in, meaning normal and not outlier levels of attractiveness, individual men are attracted to a larger % of women than individual women are men.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/06/22 03:25 PM
6

Do you really think there's a map?
/r/PurplePillDebate15/06/22 03:17 PM
1

Some men sad or pissed about not having sex will latch onto the bigger concept of feeling sad or pissed about perhaps never procreating. It's a way to catastrophize. Being sad about not having sex or even not having as much as you like is legit, but there's no benefit to piling on your disappointment.
/r/ExRedPill15/06/22 01:36 PM
2

I really don't mean this as a "gotcha", but if that's how you feel, why do you voluntarily spend significant time here?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/06/22 05:21 PM
8

There have always been men who struggle to make any sort of connection with women. There may actually be more of them now than say 40 years ago. Neurodivergence seems to impact more men than women and it tends to harm men more socially. Some of that is due to the more active role men typically play in courtship, some to do with men who are different often being seen as creepy, and some is due to socialization. Women with Autism, for example, mimic decent social skills better than men with Autism…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/06/22 05:18 PM
8

Sounds like you got pulled in without your knowledge. It's healthy that you considered your part in it though, even if it was unintentional. That's what a grounded person does. Take notes, OP.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/06/22 04:00 AM
3

Many men don't have much to fall back on socially once they're young adults. We have different relationships with family and our friendships are often less intimate than women's. So a relationship for a man often fills a greater need than it does for a woman, and a man who is now 25 and who was raised the way most men his age were can't just flip a switch and meet his emotional needs elsewhere. Add to that our sex drive that's typically higher than a woman's it's very difficult for us to just be…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/06/22 01:48 PM
2

It's revenge against the men who believe women run out of options at 30. I suspect about the same # of women find love in their 70s as run out of options at 30. Both are outliers.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/06/22 06:06 PM
19

They’re just more comfortable with having nothing at all if they don’t get what they want. This is the crux of ordinary men's dating issues. A decent but nothing special kind of man, even if he's realistic and interested in women you could describe the same way isn't really competing with throngs of other men but rather he's competing with her staying single. Given the roll of the dice relationships of any sort can be for women, staying alone has a quality to it. What would be healthy for men wo…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/06/22 06:02 PM
1

My mother in law remarried in her 70s and went on a world tour with her new husband. Which to be fair, is sort of a woman's revenge fantasy.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/06/22 05:44 PM
3

Can you clarify? I'm having trouble figuring out what is "less than before".
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/22 05:21 PM
2

That happens, but it happens far less often if the person asking for help or a sanity check is considerate of the people he's requesting those things from. A lot of men come at this like someone wanting to find political common ground asking a republican why they have no heart or asking a democrat why they have no sense. They just blew up the common ground.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/22 09:27 PM
3

-Arguing at all isn't terribly effective. People seldom change their minds. -Arguing with someone with a genuinely different perspective makes a tough task tougher. -Arguing in bad faith, which is often the path men take here, makes the tougher task the toughest.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/22 07:22 PM
3

That would explain all those yeast infections. I strive to be the least moldy among the fungal throngs of men. It's served me well.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/22 02:37 PM
1

I agree with Kentucky that men, and women, will feel stronger initial lust for a hotter person, whether that person is hot in everyone's eyes or perhaps not but really fits their type. People who are used to very attractive people being into them never have to look beyond the person's surface to feel a connection. That deeper connection can happen, but that's after a strong physical pull. More ordinary looking people who don't draw a lot of sincere attention probably develop interest in people t…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/22 02:21 PM
1

On average men are more conservative than women. Among people who have very strong political or culturally conservative views, men significantly outnumber women. Plus, among hardcore conservatives there's still a pretty open acceptance of the "women should remain chaste and men will sew their wild oats" standard. So who are hardcore conservative young men going to bang? Not hardcore conservative women.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/22 01:56 PM
2

I ask because what you describe is what a lot of men sense is happening, but are often told that their imagination is getting the best of them. And no offense, but it's not like you (or anyone on a reddit sub so not singling you out) are some definitive source, but comments like yours probably mean something. Thanks for responding.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/22 01:26 PM
6

Do you genuinely believe that or are you just trolling the audience here?
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/22 09:05 PM
4

So the guy who does dishes gets to stay married to a woman who doesn't want to have sex with him? Tell me that came out wrong.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/22 02:50 PM
1

That's a solid analysis. A quick scan shows it to explain what we see and the dynamics that may be behind what we see. I think you're spot on in saying TRP is fueled by that sense of injustice and the anger it engenders, and that TBP appeals to "the better angels of our nature". The phrase I quoted was from Lincoln's first inaugural address and ended what was a plea for peace. Not to be overly dramatic, but the south attacked Fort Sumpter 5 weeks later. Two quick things I'd add. TRP exaggerates …
/r/ExRedPill28/05/22 07:25 PM
3

If I'm happy with my sex life, I'm happy. If I'm happy then most of what I want and likely all that I really need is happening, so if I learned that there was some marginal something I like that we're not doing that she did with some other guy, I'd pout and stop having the good and satisfying sex to prove a point. Or no, I wouldn't do that. Why would anyone? I'm happy, so I'm good to go. Now that's predicated on me being happy and feeling good about the sex I'm having. If I'm not happy for some …
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/22 09:14 PM
10

About 20% of marriages are sexless, meaning the couple has sex less than 10 times per year. That means people having sex twice per month are not included in that stat, and that frequency would be too little for lots of people. In sexless marriages Edit: Part of my original comment was cut off. What I had written was... In sexless marriages the man is the less interested about 1/3 of the time, and the woman is 2/3. Which would mean that in about 12% of marriages the man is having less sex (likely…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/22 03:23 PM
1

Same here, though unless I see ISIS as composed largely of vulnerable people, I can't see a solution, except perhaps "killing them all".
/r/PurplePillDebate26/05/22 05:50 PM
5

If the manosphere is radicalizing these young men, why are the men vulnerable to being radicalized. That vulnerability is the root cause or closer to the root cause than the misogyny. I think the root cause is more about hopelessness first.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/05/22 05:23 PM
7

Do you think misogyny is the core issue or is it a symptom or result of some other core issue? I think it's the latter. Not to minimize it's impact, but the difference matters if we're to change anything.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/05/22 04:53 PM
14

I think you're right. I have a woman friend who says men wanting to date her are almost never competing with other men, they're competing with her experience being alone. She doesn't prefer alone to even an OK relationship that has potential, but she prefers alone to one that looks like it's going nowhere. I think the deeper reason for this is more subtle than the distinction you make. For average men and women, meaning neither has tons of easy options, women typically make more overt and empowe…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/22 09:26 PM
5

the average man is, unfortunately, socialized to believe he’s “doing just fine” even if he has like no friends, no career - nothing to indicate personal growth to an outsider I do think some men in that state claim they're doing ok, but I wonder how many believe that. I think what some do is try to date as a means of feeling ok, which, and they put up a false front of okness.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/22 08:31 PM
3

I'm male. I'm also quite old for this sub or any really at 64. At no point did I think that women were especially noble in their interests in men. I get your point though. Some women claim a moral high ground re dating that they mostly don't inhabit. It serves them, though. But men also want, sometimes despite solid evidence to the contrary, to believe that women are significantly more refined romantically than men. Men need that tom (to) be true because it gives them a shot, or the pretense of …
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/22 02:48 AM
6

I don't think women are more shallow than men. They're about the same though, and this seems to be news, so men react as if betrayed and women as if guilty.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/05/22 05:15 PM
2

You were doing OK until the "be a man" part.
/r/ExRedPill19/05/22 02:53 PM
2

I think confidence functions can do several things. It amplifies other qualities, as you state. It smooths your path toward the activities and situations where you meet people. But it also signals something about you that is attractive in and of itself. That something it signals is that you're grounded. Shit happens. Everyone has stuff to deal with. Confident people aren't immune to making mistakes, but they handle them fairly well without a lot of self recrimination or other recrimination. Real…
/r/ExRedPill19/05/22 01:35 PM
14

I'm a man and I have that sort of love for my partner and I feel it back from her. It's exquisite.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/22 09:46 PM
5

I would worry if you felt indifference. Hate means your heart is still in the game.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/22 09:42 PM
2

Evolution doesn't care about whether the woman fucked several men before Stealing that for my headstone ;)
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/22 08:09 PM
3

I'm not sure it's false hope so much as a failure to meet someone where they are.
/r/ExRedPill04/05/22 05:54 PM
3

You're not alone because you're short. You're alone because you suck. And that can change, if you want it to. You may be right, but is it possible that some people suck because they're alone.
/r/ExRedPill04/05/22 05:06 PM
1

Can you expand on "ignorant". If you mean naive, I'd agree that some bluepill adherents are naive, but the ideas they espouse aren't.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/05/22 01:53 PM
4

Good explanation as to why this may not be a good place to come for help. I'm not sure that's what you intended, though.
/r/ExRedPill02/05/22 01:29 PM
1

Ding dong.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/22 05:17 PM
1

People often see confidence as believing the odds favor success. I believe the most useful trait is being OK with whatever happens. It's knowing that you'll manage yourself and to the extent that you can, the situation, whether you succeed or fail.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/22 07:36 PM
2

Username checks out, ironically though.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/22 03:29 PM
2

Liking and sharing doesn't mean agreeing Kinda does?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/04/22 04:28 PM
4

You're right in the sense that what creates attraction is often layered, but one of several factors can prevent attraction. So it ends up beingv true that it isn't and it is all about looks.
/r/ExRedPill13/04/22 08:45 PM
4

I think most of us want to believe that woman are different from men. Better than men. And despite what may happen in artificial environments like dating apps, women do seem to look at a potential partner a little deeper than men do. The thing is, women do that for reasons of safety and risk control, and not out of some nobler nature than men's. And this (edited to explain that "this" refers to the assumed big differences and expectations that follow) is sad for both sexes. Men aren't as blindly…
/r/ExRedPill08/04/22 02:22 PM
1

Not an original thought but one that makes sense to me, that sex and their sexuality is still difficult for some women to fully embrace and to avoid feeling shame or guilt about it. Some of that has to follow her into the bedroom, and a man taking control there might ease some of those feelings. Not that she needs absolution, but in that fucked up way our minds work, ahe might feel on some level she needs absolution.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/22 04:43 PM
1

Not redpill but I would never advocate for a woman to let her guard down in real world situations. There are real threats, and those aren't always easy to identify. Those real world precautions don't bother me, except to the extent that it is sad that women do have to be careful. When we're talking about it though, I do get the feeling that this real concern get's weaponized by some women. And here's the thing, it can be difficult to tell which women are expressing a real concern I fully underst…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/22 03:47 PM
0

That's something people struggle with, not just men.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/22 03:37 PM
1

Is the man a woman has a relationship with not sexually attractive? Why would she enter that relationship?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/22 02:51 PM
2

Disappointment doesn't lead inevitably to bitterness and resentment. We have to nurture that in ourselves, or at least let it happen without limiting it's impact. It can be hard to avoid, no doubt, but the person hurt most if I become bitter and resentful is me. I know because I go there sometimes.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/22 07:53 PM
1

From what we know, he seems to handle the "openness" of their relationship more respectfully than she does. If he wants to be in a relationship where his wife publicly demeans him, more power to him I guess, but then he does fit the common definition of a cuckold. I don't understand men or women who are into public or even private humiliation, so I'll admit it makes me uncomfortable. If he doesn't want that, the fact that he stays when he could easily move on says something about the emotional g…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/22 07:45 PM
1

Doesn't it seem that he handles his end of the relationship a bit more discretely? And by a bit, I mean way. On a couple of occasions she's seemingly gone out of her way to compare him to other men directly or indirectly and to flaunt her power in the relationship. If he's into that, well then there's that. If he's not but he can't walk away, well don't we arrive at the same sad, "yes mam may I have another" kind of place?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/22 05:14 PM
3

And if those boundaries seem to empower one person and diminish the other, I'm going to wonder where they're coming from. I would definitely if a man was flaunting his experiences and a woman was struggling with it.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/22 05:05 PM
-1

The way I understand it, people who are bitter online are bitter IRL. There's no hiding certain levels of bitterness. Bitter people are a drag to date or be in a relationship with. Hence, the men in relationships with some of the women commenting in this thread must be miserable. That's some tight logic right there.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/03/22 10:29 PM
1

The conversation about settling seems more to me to be about ‘this relationship is built on a foundation of lies!’ and that just doesn’t seem accurate to me. I agree. Some men want to see women as either deceptive about their desires or so unaware that the result is the same. But it only matters if he believes she can't be happy with him if he's not her physical ideal. That's also probably a thought many men and women have every now and then but let pass without too much rumination.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/03/22 07:14 PM
3

Did you edit your first comment above what men feel they're missing out on? If not I missed your last paragraph about women being untrustworthy regarding their level of interest in a LTR. I think that's part of the issue, a lack of trust on men's part that their partner is with them in part because she's attracted to him. In individual cases it may be based on a man not believing he's desirable. That's for him to work on, but that work could include him asking for more clear displays of interest…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/03/22 04:55 PM
2

Add my voice to the chorus of people curious about your cheating female friend whose husband is responsible for her cheating?
/r/PurplePillDebate02/03/22 03:59 PM
10

I think the concern is that she won't want him sexually. Not the way he wants to feel desired. Not in a way that he feels certain about. Not in a way that will last, if it happens at all, more than the year or two the OP mentions. Maybe his wants are unrealistic. No one really gets much certainty. I suspect though that in most warm, stable, relationships the OP describes the woman is more certain of the man's desire for her than the man is certain of her desire. So maybe men expect too much in t…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/03/22 03:40 PM
1

though the attraction is different than the attraction I feel to the guys I notice and turn my head. The men who "build" attraction with me create more of a happy, warm, almost family like feeling? Like I feel safe and chilled and comfortable around them, more like a best friend who I'm happy to have sex with when the mood between us is right. I hope I'm not derailing, but this comment is interesting. If you've had the experience of getting together with a man who turns your head right away, is …
/r/PurplePillDebate01/03/22 04:15 PM
2

Their sexlessness is just an easy target because they tend to deserve it. Why do you think they deserve their sexlessness? Or rather what do you base that deservedness on?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/22 06:31 PM
3

I can see why. I think men think of how sex tends to work from our perspective and we fail to look at how it can be from women's. I have to check myself to keep that in mind. But then too in my case as a man I'd rather not know how relatively easy it is for a woman to get laid. I'm a kind of average guy and in my opinion my committed partner is a little better looking than me. No one could give me high enough odds to wager which of us could find somebody to screw on an app or in a bar. And if I'…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/22 10:00 PM
2

I genuinely believe that if the choice is "women are not horny" and "women are as horny as men", the latter is closer to the truth and a more useful belief. But those aren't the two choices, which is good. But I appreciate your point about expectations. That's kind of my point, really. You're concerned that men can be ruined by expecting women to be horny. I assume you mean extremely disappointed, self blaming, feeling left out, etc. Don't you think expecting women to not be horny leads to exact…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/22 09:01 PM
4

I think the behavior of statistically marginal men has a lot to do with the narrow range of scenarios where women have a huge advantage, those being swipe based app users looking for a hook up.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/22 08:53 PM
2

Most of the critique of Lewontin was based on the belief that taxanomy where humans are concerned has some value. I'm not so sure, except on some parlor game level or as part of a racial identity type agenda. And in your n of 4 example, lets make the points IQ, math aptitude, dog ownership, and # of sex partners by age 30. Men are on the higher end of each of these measures. But would you with any certainty say that a person with an IQ of 115, a 70th per centile result in math aptitude, a dog, a…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/22 08:50 PM
1

And the differences on the margin are what people notice, and I think that's somewhat natural. But I'm male and not especially violent, though I have my moments. Those moments have always been directed at other men. Yet, women who focus on the margins will think I'm a threat because I'm male. This thinking can backfire on men or women. I focused on women because this sub seems to focus on men as the default and women as anomalies. and we see the clusterfuck that leads to.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/22 08:35 PM
2

Way to elevate the conversation.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/22 08:31 PM
5

I think men are sometimes desperate to find a way not to define themselves as losers. Even the men who call themselves losers. Maybe those men most of all.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/22 08:36 PM
3

Agreed. Genetics matter. Environment matters. Neither nor both in combination are deterministic though.
/r/ExRedPill10/02/22 03:22 PM
7

Are you referring to u/quabbicoo? She was pointing out the circle jerk logic of TRP. She seems more exasperated than outraged at people who espouse a system of thought where women are portrayed as pure id, men are portrayed as pure super ego, and every man can be in the top 20% of all men. Is she selfish to notice that?
/r/PurplePillDebate08/02/22 10:10 PM
5

Do men? Why would they?
/r/PurplePillDebate08/02/22 08:37 PM
1

I agree with you, but doesn't that mean you can afford to have those standards? Or you just won't date if they're not met, which is an approach a lot of men would benefit from adopting, but their standards sometimes disappear when they need them most.
/r/ExRedPill01/02/22 09:30 PM
1

I believe it's more immediately humbling to be actively rejected. But even if all you can do much about is your reaction to rejection, you have some control over that. A woman who is waiting for an approach she never gets? She can initiate herself, but that's pretty fraught for her. Sometimes men who have a lot of success approaching women ridicule men who fear approaching. Sometimes women who don't need to approach anyone do, while admitting they would hate approaching. Not much empathy there f…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/02/22 06:50 PM
2

Yeah, the people who hate "be yourself" don't like themselves, so that understandably seems like bad advice. But they don't think beyond the surface of the comment. I interpret it to mean "be authentic". Chase what you genuinely want. Let your strengths show. Don't flaunt your weaknesses, but don't hide them or obviously overcompensate for them. Maybe the self you don't like isn't really you, but the person you became because you reared that yourself wasn't enough. And if yourself isn't enough, …
/r/PurplePillDebate01/02/22 06:41 PM
1

And you can't sustain a relationship that doesn't start.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/22 04:35 PM
2

The really important thing, IMO, is that how good looking you are doesn't indicate your value as a human being. Unattractive people are just as valuable and worthy of love as attractive people. And also that forming meaningful relationships has little to nothing to do with your SMV I'm not a fan of the term SMV precisely because it includes the word "value". I know it's modified by "sexual" and "market" but the syntax doesn't lessen the power of the words. I thing "market" get's lost in the mix …
/r/ExRedPill28/01/22 04:30 PM
1

I'm all for personal responsibility, and I'm sure some people leave that out of their life plan. But others make credible efforts yet results vary greatly among people all making a credible effort. And that's life.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/22 09:12 PM
2

Both are sketchy, but in the 20-16 example both are not fully formed adults mentally or emotionally. The 20 yr old is likely far ahead in development (typically), but marginally in the same camp. The 45 yr old is fully adult with about two decades of adulting in tow, so more sketchy.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/22 04:35 PM
2

Can you see that your experience has nothing to do with any other person's? Lots of men at the same gym, working out and looking like it, don't get approached. So you getting approached is likely due to qualities that can't be found at the gym or through personal initiative. Meaning you've lucked out which gives you a kind of privileged perspective with regard to dating as a man. Which of course makes your perspective less useful to someone who might be struggling.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/22 04:31 PM
6

Is the boyfriend guy mediocre? Women here are saying he's of more value than the fuck on the first date guy. But you seem to think otherwise.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/22 04:42 AM
0

Maybe you should see someone about your lack of, well let's say imagination. ​ Edit: Or maybe I should. Saw your response down thread and it was nice and regardless, I overreacted. I'm sorry
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/22 04:03 AM
1

And gyms, cosmetic surgeons, and therapists would all go out of business if we all grew up ;)
/r/PurplePillDebate22/01/22 06:35 PM
3

I believe disappointment is normal. We won't always satisfy our desires, and that will be painful. Suffering happens when we don't accept the disappointment and learn what we can from it and then let it dissipate. Instead, we nurture it.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/01/22 06:22 PM
5

Why not? I've always thought compliments flow most to those who need them least.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/22 07:27 PM
3

You're male, right. Across your posts you seem to be intent on correcting any illusions men have about themselves or their romantic prospects. Who you trying to convince?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/22 04:01 PM
2

if you focus only on the initial looks step, once you get past that, I like your analogy, but playing devil's advocate, how does one get past the initial looks step if their looks are a serious obstacle to being seen as attractive? In a very real way, you can't get past what you can't get to.
/r/ExRedPill18/01/22 03:27 PM
1

Does that possibly show that you don't have much regard for people you interact with online? Whatever this sub is meant to be, it attracts a lot of insecure men. Maybe you should be able to say what you want online, but nobody gets that privilege. Being bluntly confident about yourself on this sub will bring the response you got from some, which you felt the need to address with a separate thread. Because you're confident?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/22 06:44 PM
2

Those comments don't help, even if they have an element of truth to them. Especially if they do.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/22 06:08 AM
4

I think the process of finding a relationship is pretty transactional, weighing what you have to offer vs what the other person has to offer. You don't have to view things that way, but even people who wouldn't describe their strategy that way often act out that strategy. The relationship itself is less overtly transactional in most cases.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/22 03:24 PM
1

Although I'd change the terms, I think we are even. Which sorta disappoints everyone.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/22 06:30 PM
1

Stop "twinkie shaming".
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/22 06:19 PM
3

Many men actively look for things to be attracted to in a woman. We may not even be conscious of it at all times. Most women don't do this. Men enter the scene more primed to be attracted (biology? culture? both?). That explains some of the difference between straight men and straight women's perceptions. Women also do a lot more than men do to beautify their faces, and somewhat more to present themselves as attractive. Men are more ready to be attracted, and women more often deliver. Go to a gr…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/22 03:20 AM
5

I agree. Self esteem is almost always an evaluation. It's contingent on meeting some standard. For people struggling already, evaluating themselves against a standard is fraught. Self compassion is not contingent. In that way it's free. It can be tough to get in that mental place, but it's worth the effort. And it has the added bonus of modeling for others how to treat you.
/r/ExRedPill06/01/22 09:16 PM
3

Having casual sex with someone 'hotter' than who we have a relationship with doesn't indicate a higher level of desire or love or commitment for the casual sex guy. Hotness and thrill are not love. Just like with men, women look for different things in a lover than they do in a husband. We may have sex with a totally hot sex symbol and remember them fondly, but we don't get into relationships with sex symbols Why don't you get into relationships with sex symbols? Wouldn't it be ideal to have a r…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/22 06:24 PM
3

There's a level of indiscriminate fucking around that would scare me off, but I don't pay much attention to such things. What I do find interesting from a "people are sure funny" perspective is men who think women that sleep with them at all or too easily, are ruined. Contaminated. Think about that.
/r/ExRedPill30/12/21 06:03 PM
3

This is really well stated. I believe that people who are sensitive to status have a particular need to learn strategies to avoid these comparisons. Comparisons are something like a drug or alcohol. Most of us can use them casually with only minor repercussions like hangovers or embarrassment. But others can't use them at all without serious damage to their well being. Their best course is to avoid the substance altogether. That's where the analogy breaks down a bit. You're right that comparing …
/r/ExRedPill27/12/21 07:35 PM
1

I believe it is harder. The more attractive you are, the more people will be interested in at least getting to know you. The more people you can date and get to know, the more likely you'll find someone you click with besides physical attraction. I think people who adhere to one or another "pill" get stuck on it being harder for some people to find love with someone they're attracted to. That applies to me, and while it sucks and it made the task harder, I to some extent accepted that challenge …
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/21 06:30 PM
3

In established relationships, I believe women suggest an open relationship 2/3 of the time it's suggested. https://uk.askmen.com/news/dating/survey-finds-women-more-likely-to-propose-open-relationships.html This isn't the source I remember seeing, but it's the first I found.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/12/21 07:44 PM
1

What do you consider to be wrong with the dating system? What specifically might you oppose? Someone up thread laid out the choices as working within the system, trying to change it, or complaining about it. Opting out comes to mind as another option, but that's so often a subset of complaining that I don't see it as a separate choice. I do see working with the system as is while redefining, rethinking, or reprioritizing the dynamics of dating as a legit choice. All those "re's" don't affect the…
/r/ExRedPill03/12/21 07:18 PM
1

You seem to be straining to define this discussion and ones like it as deceptive. Yet it didn't happen here and it's quite rare for anyone to claim that looks don't matter at all. You want to believe that someone told you, that everyone told you that a man could have every unfortunate physical trait a man can have, but still be generally attractive (sexually, romantically) because he's a cool guy. He can't. He can be attractive to a woman, or a few women, due to his style or wit or charm or tale…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/11/21 03:18 PM
4

I'm male and not especially attractive, and not real happy about that. But where di the poster contradict herself? She said there is a threshold, clearly admitting that some level of attraction on her part is necessary for a relationship to potentially happen. But meeting that threshold is the first step, after which personality matters more than looks. I take that to mean that being a better fit personality wise makes her more interested than a level of attractiveness beyond that threshold. -So…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/11/21 06:46 PM
1

Don't bump your head on the underside of the bridge.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/11/21 04:09 PM
1

Goats?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/11/21 09:24 PM
9

I never connected my value to how well I did with women. I think that's why I never hated myself, or even the traits that I believe held me back. I did get very frustrated, though. In my frustration, there were times when I felt useless to myself. I always had compassion for myself and I knew much of what held me back was beyond my immediate control, but I still felt bad about my plight. It wasn't that I had to do well, but not doing well certainly had emotional consequences.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/11/21 07:42 PM
10

I wouldn't poke them with your stick.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/11/21 07:34 PM
14

The men who say it feel disposable. Their feelings are real and my belief in their validity is only a mental exercise, but in that context I can see how some men feel like society sees them as disposable, or certainly as something less than valuable.
/r/ExRedPill09/11/21 05:27 PM
1

I think you may underestimate the # or deny the entire existence of men who do things primarily because they might meet women, and fake their way through the evening without moaning or pouting. They exist. I exist. If I only did fun (for me) social things I'd lead a pretty lonely and empty existence.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/11/21 05:21 PM
3

I'm not quite understanding your point. I know you were being Socratic with the person you were interacting with, but they stepped away from your conversation. Are you advocating that seeing our part in a shitty outcome, however remote it may be from the proximate cause, is empowering? If you are, do you believe that, or do you see it's utility? Or both?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/11/21 04:19 PM
2

I see this and sometimes feel it myself when the issue is a generally unfavorable one. If I had naturally green hair, on my back, and this was something many women found unattractive, the search for the person who is "worth it" could be quite fraught and feel kind of hopeless. It also implies that there's something wrong with the people who don't like green back hair. If most people don't find the trait attractive, labeling them the problem doesn't make green back hair more popular and it does g…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/11/21 04:03 PM
1

You're a breath of fresh air.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/11/21 02:12 PM
7

Is your world really made up of "neckbeards" and "world class men" with no men in between? You sort of imply that.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/11/21 06:36 PM
5

Do you think the men feeling rejected online are necessarily the men who would break women's lives?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/11/21 04:36 PM
1

You dated and had sex.. I'm so confused.
/r/ExRedPill01/11/21 11:08 PM
1

Just playing devil's advocate, but aren't we supposed to tell incel men that no one dated in high school? I think you slipped up.
/r/ExRedPill01/11/21 11:07 PM
4

Can your stance stand up to simple observation. I can't go anywhere in public without seeing men who are less than ideal looking with women. Those women are also less than ideal looking, but that's always been the trend. Average looking people tend to pair up with other average looking people, and below average looking people tend to find each other. Do you not see that? If those average or below average looking men and women were creating their ideal partner, that person would be better looking…
/r/ExRedPill29/10/21 03:23 PM
7

Can you define what the black pill means to you? Are you in the "it's over" camp in predicting the romantic futures of men who lack the right facial proportions? Because lookism is a real phenomena and something we would all do well to recognize and combat, but the black pill is way more dramatic and fatalistic about how severe the consequences are for people who aren't beautiful. So what's your position?
/r/ExRedPill29/10/21 02:36 PM
3

Just scanning the comments it seems we're fighting about who puts expectations on whom. It's funny, because whatever pressure anyone (man or woman) feels to measure up to some real or imagined ideal, we could find common ground. Men add to women's insecurity, and women add to men's. And women and men add to the insecurities of their own sex. And then we fuck with our own minds and emotional well being. Those are all human tendencies we could help each other get past or better cope with.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/10/21 02:14 PM
6

I think there's some tendency here to see an unhealthy or unproductive response, the way people deal with their circumstances , as the cause of their circumstances. While there are exceptions, most sustained dating issues start at the intersection of the structure of dating and the person's innate traits.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/10/21 04:28 PM
17

Teeth are the worst.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/10/21 06:14 PM
2

I agree, and I think there's science to back this up. To some extent, arousal is arousal, whatever the source. Our physiology isn't making moral judgments during an assault.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/10/21 02:55 PM
1

Are you doomed or do you face a challenge you feel ill equipped to overcome?
/r/ExRedPill21/10/21 05:46 PM
1

Responded to myself :)
/r/ExRedPill21/10/21 05:44 PM
3

It seems like you want to believe you're doomed. Is that true? If so, what do you get from writing yourself off?
/r/ExRedPill21/10/21 04:01 PM
1

I just need to point out that you suggested that most men are like a spree killer. I'm done here.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/10/21 01:26 PM
1

Those are good ideas. I also think acceptance based approaches are helpful. I'm male, and fear almost directly leads to anger. Shame paves the way. I've found acceptance based approaches really useful. Allowing myself to feel the original feeling, fear for example, without a lot of judgment (way easier said than done) lets that feeling come and go and lets me respond rather than react to the fear.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/10/21 01:24 PM
–

Poor man.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/10/21 08:14 PM
3

How should they address it? Besides therapy? Therapy is a place and a structure, but the how is the same in or out of therapy. What should men who are ashamed do?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/10/21 07:53 PM
5

Where these discussions can derail is when some women see the solutions to the way society is full of shit about men as clear and achievable, but those same women see the ways society is full of shit about women as more complex and intractable. And of course some men do the same, seeing women's issues as simple and easily addressed and men's as layered and insurmountable. So we talk past each other.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/10/21 07:49 PM
16

There's some merit to the distinction the OP makes. The assumption that women's pain is real and worth exploring, and men's is theirs to deal with. I think it leans that way anyway. It's like when someone has several bad dating experiences and they lament the flaws of the gender they date. Men dating women are often told to date a better class of women, the fault being his and based on his choices. Women dating men are much more likely to have their lament about men supported as the source of th…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/21 04:58 PM
1

I think you and PickupScientist are both right. Living for the approval of others isn't healthy. Trying to live without it can feel like trying to live without oxygen, though. Great as an aspiration but not achievable by many people. I think most of us are destined to struggle with this. Maybe accepting that struggle, the conflict between needing approval and the compromises we make to try and get it, is the best we can do. Accepting the conflict with some self compassion.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/21 02:55 PM
1

She could have been being completely honest, or she could have been engaging in locker room talk. Certainly some of women's attention to lots of things sexual is performative and unreliable, just like men's comments about sex or women can be unreliable accounts of what they really feel.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/10/21 10:27 PM
2

But why if the men are so ordinary?
/r/PurplePillDebate08/10/21 04:19 PM
1

Your general point that women's pleasure matters and that men, and women, should behave like it's important is true and fundamental. That behaving that way is the gateway to a man being given "more than he knows what to do with" is not always true.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/10/21 02:52 PM
3

Did you get that from something I said or is it your issue and this seemed like a place to express it? What you're suggesting happens is clearly maladaptive as hell, and I'd even agree that some men here are saying this or something close to it, but I'm not. Seems like you have a point to make and context be damned.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/10/21 06:33 PM
3

In another context if someone brought this up I'd say what you said. People outside this anonymous site wouldn't hear me talk about this except to say it can happen and you deal with it or move on. What I wouldn't say but believe is often true and was for me is that dealing with it comes at a price for many people, and I think that price gets overlooked here. I'm glad it didn't faze you, but many people aren't so stoic and your response may be an unrealistic standard.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/10/21 05:19 PM
9

I'm not speaking for Aldabruzzo and I don't think I agree entirely with his point. I think your take on this is pretty accurate though, so I wonder how you would feel knowing a man you'd date had been in a casual relationship with a woman considerably more attractive than you? Or maybe more to the point and using your terms, a woman he thought had more value than you? I'm a guy and I've been there and it's tough to feel good about. Ultimately you deal with it or you don't, and I did, but it was …
/r/PurplePillDebate06/10/21 04:17 PM
2

The relatively few women who want to have casual sex and find it rewarding typically have significantly more options than men like them. But that's not many women. A higher # of women may have a fling or two where they had no interest in the guy, but that doesn't mean much in terms of options. Moderately attractive women interested in casual sex who enjoy it and who tend not to develop feelings have more options than moderately attractive men. More options in terms of #s and better options since…
/r/ExRedPill05/10/21 05:39 PM
2

What would your hypothesis be? That's not a criticism but a genuine question. And when you refer to "game", do you mean it in the narrow sense it's used lately or is that a synonym for factors that would be identified in pretesting? Agreeable extravert men will likely get more attention than similar looking introverted men who lean a little neurotic. But then good looks and personality traits we view as good tend to correlate because the world is a welcoming place, relatively at least, for prett…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/10/21 05:24 PM
1

This is almost a philosophical question. By definition, looks are subjective. The qualities that tend to comprise human beauty, like symmetry and proportions and skin and hair tone and texture are objective, but they mean nothing if the person is not perceived by another person who reacts to those qualities. I think the clearer question is "Is there a consensus or near consensus regarding who is beautiful?" I think there is. Some people are judged beautiful by most other people. Even outliers wh…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/10/21 03:19 PM
3

So true. I'll just be a milkcell.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/10/21 10:02 PM
7

Or lifting. I hear that works well. Maybe lifting in the shower to show your efficiency.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/10/21 09:49 PM
3

These discussions happen because a significant minority of men believe they can't do what makes them happy (fuck who they wanna fuck). Among those men, a significant minority (significant minority2 ) have actually thought this through, looking for ways to discover the small # of women they'd like to fuck who feel the same about them. They try to become more attractive to that subset of women if they have something in common (like lusting for artistic men or some such fairly rare niche the guy mi…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/10/21 06:57 PM
2

You've outed yourself. Give it up.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/10/21 04:32 PM
5

So you assume women deceive men by offering sex in an effort to increase the likelihood that the man will stick around. And those women are victims. Cool story.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/09/21 02:37 PM
2

All the lengthy explanations about men masking bad behavior or having other traits that distract from the bad behavior have some truth to them, but they just give the OP and people in his situation something to argue about. I think there's a simpler answer. Whatever you attribute it to, unpleasant men who attract women aren't asking for advice about how to attract women because they don't need it. Men who are asking, by definition because they are not attracting women, very likely need to change…
/r/ExRedPill29/09/21 01:50 PM
2

Where do you see pumping and dumping as the interest? Or do you consider any short term connection pumping and dumping? Because the OP responded to the suggestion from SaBahRub that men who want wild sex should focus on short term relationships. Whether that's true or not it was the suggestion. OP responded that men who aren't attractive enough can't exercise that option. Again, whether that's true or not the conclusion the OP reaches is valid. If wild sex happens in short term relationships and…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/09/21 01:22 PM
2

If a person is interested in something and can't explore the interest it can be frustrating. That seems pretty elementary, provided a person can take another's perspective.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/09/21 01:28 AM
2

^^^^^^^Yes, internalized misandry exists ^^^^^^
/r/ExRedPill27/09/21 04:05 PM
1

Is there a red pill argument followed to its conclusion that isn't an appeal to emotion?
/r/ExRedPill27/09/21 03:57 PM
2

Saying "female" is an affectation. No one who spent 5 minutes online outside of toxic manosphere sites doesn't know it's insulting to most women and grating to most people. At this point it's like referring to people of Sub Saharan African descent as "colored". Edit: Noticed descent spelled wrong
/r/ExRedPill27/09/21 03:53 PM
3

Red pill is writing checks it can't cash. It's fine to do things in the hope that they will make you more attractive, but doing those things are not a guarantee or "promise". Red pill is a false ideology for a lot of reasons, but the notion that it "works" if you do it right is reason enough to disbelieve. It's corny, but why not believe in people? Humanity. Yourself and your ability to adapt and persevere. Men and women's fundamental decency and the big overlap in how we operate and what we wan…
/r/ExRedPill07/09/21 10:43 PM
6

The source the OP cited down thread said women make up 27% of swipe app users in the US. Still a significant imbalance and the OP's thesis is a partial explanation. I think men hurt their experience further though by their method of using the APP. It's pretty clear that swiping on every woman you find somewhat attractive is ruinous to the process for everyone. It makes "sifting" tougher for women and they make less use of the site. It leaves a high % of the man's contacts unsuccessful, and the s…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/09/21 10:08 PM
3

I found shyness to be a major challenge and a significant disadvantage through my most vulnerable dating years when it held sway the most. I'd say it was actually a bad trait to have. It still is, though as I said elsewhere I've learned to essentially be less shy and to make my life work when I can't do that. That's why I recommended the OP work to make changes. There were about a 10 difficult years and half of that time I wasn't working on better social skills and I regret wasting that time. Bu…
/r/ExRedPill07/09/21 09:49 PM
3

If I read you right, I'm not so sure. The attractiveness rating thing showed that by that measure only 20% of men were rated at above average, but the messaging patterns were a normal distribution. So average men got roughly there expected share of messages. I still think the 80% # may mean something, but then it may be that the # was skewed by the fact that rating a man above average sent him a notification, which implies interest. Easy to imagine a woman being reluctant to highly rate the look…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/09/21 09:11 PM
5

Agreed.
/r/ExRedPill07/09/21 08:38 PM
6

Shyness can be a pretty effective way to avoid dating. Not talking about a little reticence in new situations or with new people, but a genuine fear of those situations. u/KindKitten25055, it doesn't really matter what trait limits you most. Shyness, especially if it leads to withdrawal from social situations is something to work on. I had severe social anxiety as an adolescent and in some situations into adulthood, and it was a drag on my social life. My social anxiety is never much better than…
/r/ExRedPill07/09/21 08:05 PM
6

This is a good response. I also think there's a correlation between eating poorly and obesity, meaning not just too many calories but unhealthy ones. Also poor sleep and poor diet and obesity in a cyclic way where each contributes to the other. If they're related, improvement in one leads to improvements in all three. That can do a lot to boost your outlook, which seems it could use a boost.
/r/ExRedPill07/09/21 07:45 PM
1

Stole my line
/r/ExRedPill07/09/21 03:48 PM
1

For me and I think for some others "standards" apply if there's some basic attraction. I don't filter my physical or sexual attraction to someone through a checklist. I can't see me saying I won't date a woman I'm attracted to because she's X height or has X hair color. Those things may factor into my attraction, but they don't override it if I'm attracted. Standards operate on a different level. If meeting standards adds to my interest and not meeting an important one (life goals, financial goa…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/09/21 02:59 PM
2

I guess black and red look something like purple when combined. Or is that blue and red? Blue and black? It's purple the way the average temperature is 75 degrees when every day is either 50 or 100.
/r/ExRedPill07/09/21 02:27 PM
3

Generally this is a kinder, gentler description of AF/BB, though the line between AF and BB is even more draconian and just not true. Even if the 1/100 varies a bit from woman to woman. But even if the # was 10/100 or 30/100 men elicit strong urges from women at first sight, this thesis also imagines a world of sexual bliss with one of those men, or painful sex and a total lack of satisfaction with anyone else. Sure, that's how things work. Strict binary with no room for the infinite space that …
/r/PurplePillDebate07/09/21 02:06 PM
10

I'm about to turn 64, so a generation or two older than most people here. Actually, the message to my generation was that women only lost interest if the man treated her badly or was an inept or selfish lover, assuming she had interest to begin with. We were told that women's drive wasn't so different from men's if the marriage was healthy. That different implied unequal or less than, which I agree is a conclusion some people jump to, but I wonder if the differences were de-emphasized in the nam…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/09/21 12:15 AM
4

If the study is reflective of reality, don't you think it represents more than a difference? Seems like something that bodes pretty badly for men and women.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/09/21 11:32 PM
3

For some men every waking second and most of their dreams are about status. For most men status matters to a painful degree at least some of the time. Academic achievement. Height. Income. Prestige. Social competence. Accomplishment. Athletic ability. Sexual prowess. On some deep level we can never have enough status. Those who appear to have it fear losing it. Those who lack status absolutely or relatively see gaining some as the answer to all their problems. Anything that diminishes their stat…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/09/21 02:10 PM
3

I'm a guy. Men who buy into ideas about men being simple. The notion that we're like somewhat bright dogs who are happy being well fed and having someone's leg to hump. This lets ourselves and other men off the hook for all we could but don't provide a partner, which in turn diminishes us. It also makes it easier for women to say things like "I guess guys have feelings too" and not seem like grossly insensitive ostriches for just now realizing that. I exaggerate, but too many men set low expecta…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/09/21 05:07 PM
2

There's truth to that, but there have been times I've been too considerate and lost myself in that. Times I was an ass, too, but the former has been more the pitfall for me.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/09/21 04:11 PM
1

I think a lot of red pill men's presentation is carefully curated.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/09/21 03:43 PM
8

Maybe this is blue pill? I think it's possible to be fiercely loyal to yourself (if more people only were) while also being a good person who sees the good in others, but it's like walking on a razor's edge.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/09/21 03:41 PM
13

By asking this question it seems you're either trying to morph into what the average woman wants, or perhaps to confirm that you aren't and can never be that person. Well the average woman doesn't actually exist, and depressed people seek evidence to confirm their mood. So the question might be a dead end. You should look into whether you're depressed. If you are, treat that. If you can't get treatment right away, there are things you can do that might help. Probably will help at least short ter…
/r/ExRedPill01/09/21 05:07 AM
3

You seem to be a confused bot. Stand down.
/r/ExRedPill01/09/21 04:48 AM
1

I'm genuinely curious what his internal searching might reveal?
/r/PurplePillDebate31/08/21 10:43 PM
3

This is a healthy way to look at things. I'm male, and men seem to have difficulty framing their choice to accept being single as a choice. If the women who are attracted to us don't ring our bell, we're more likely to approach women who do. That's fine if a guy has a thick skin, but more often he becomes frustrated. Worst case a man approaches women he's not thrilled about rather than be single. I think feeling like we aren't really choosing is the problem. Making a choice is much healthier emo…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/21 06:40 PM
2

That caught my attention too, but I concluded the poster meant that was where the opportunity to date lies. Which assumes that being in a relationship is more important than being physically attracted, or strongly attracted to your partner. Some people make that bargain.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/21 05:06 PM
1

Sometimes it is just world fallacy speaking. Some of us will say that sure, some people can do everything within their control to improve their odds but still not find someone, but we'd prefer to think, myself included, that they're not really doing everything. And if they did well then..... And then there's the chicken and the egg deal. I don't believe it explains pathological toxicity, but life experience can turn a pretty ok person into someone who's not much fun. The good news is that person…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 06:39 PM
2

I think she did dodge a bullet, though perhaps by chance. Do you really think the once dirty nails is a sign that he's delusional? The study (University of Chicago, 2006) that showed the connection has not been replicated. That same study demonstrated that failure to have kleenex was highly correlated (.73) with overdue fines at the library, and that has been replicated. So I'm nit picking I guess. Toenails are greatly understudied as a predictor of all kinds of bad stuff, though I found a toena…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 02:05 PM
5

Doesn't that make it seem that at least that one feminist thinks women should bang decidedly non feminist men and then settle down with a feminist man. I'm old and none of this has any real impact on me even if this means something beyond "you go girl' maybe" cheerleading, but at the very least the advice seems odd. Especially the way Sandberg worded it. "When looking for a life partner" spend time with men who would make lousy life partners? I guess.
/r/ExRedPill08/08/21 04:47 AM
2

What's interesting and seldom gets looked at closely is that men rate a woman's attractiveness for short term as high (a little higher) as women rate men's attractiveness for short term. At least in this study but in others I've seen, and in my experience. But for men the importance of attractiveness stays the same for short term and long term, also seen in my experience. Women on the other hand appear to discount attractiveness for long term, which we all agree on and which seems to be the obse…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/21 04:47 PM
4

Do you think men fantasize about average looking women? Typically of exclusively?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 08:58 PM
4

Good point. A little weather can be the thing that ruined our picnic or the reason we walked through a gentle rain holding hands and talking about how nice "this" is.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 08:57 PM
–

Is that really much of a criteria though? I mean I think some women won't even pretend that they don't cut slack to the most attractive men. And sure, some women who claim they don't actually do, or would if he flashed his smile their way. As men will with attractive women. I think the truth is women are more like men in some regards, and that scares the shit out of men, especially men who have a really low opinion of men or impossibly high standards for people in general. Pretty people get brea…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 08:40 PM
2

I'm curious what you believe "taking responsibility for their shortcomings" looks like? I ask because I often think it's a shorthand way to express something more multi-faceted. The phrase "take responsibility" can be used to express something like taking blame. It can also be suggesting making amends or fixing what's broken or not working. I think the last phrase about fixing things is most often what people mean, and it's a good suggestion if something fixable is stopping a person from succeed…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 08:16 PM
0

So true
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 07:33 PM
10

Bot gets taken out to a field like the fax machine in "Office Space".
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 03:20 PM
2

I think it's more a matter of choosing photos of yourself that convey something, be that intensity or vitality or some quality that might draw a woman's attention. Is it showing off to open you eyes if you have nice eyes?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/21 03:40 PM
3

I think she said or implied that that photo was unarousing and that the attractiveness was meh, so he's invisible. The point is there are ways to be "seen".
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/21 03:08 PM
3

You'd think I would have figured this out at this late date or encountered this thesis (and grasped it), but I hadn't. Til now. Thank you.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/21 02:02 PM
0

I think you make good points, Lillth. I'd add something to this sentence, though. "Most people either settle or stay single. You're most likely not a prize yourself. Get over it." Most people settle in the sense that they aren't with their ideal person. But in whatever way your partner is not ideal, if you are better in a relationship with them than not, then you haven't really settled. Perfect is the enemy of good, and all that. Also, some people who look like prizes aren't.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 02:49 PM
3

Quite true. That's why the red pill is so attractive, because it doesn't force black and white options onto a gray reality....er, it suggests a world view where people are individuals and not defined by their sex or status, um.........oh, I know, it reflects the nuanced nature of interactions between people and the varieties of....... Well fuck. It's almost like the red pill is crap and people who adhere to it are just afraid of the unknown and make tough guy proclamations in their faux certitud…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 01:30 PM
4

Well he's a foul, cruel, and bad tempered rodent, you know. The real dark triad ;)
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/21 06:51 PM
6

Nip viewing interruptus. That's the worst.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 09:17 PM
2

Are those the same men though? Are there any young man now interested in dating or marriage and struggling in the current dynamic who benefitted personally from the traditional dating and marriage dynamic of at least 20-30 years ago?
/r/PurplePillDebate13/07/21 07:44 PM
2

Being 6-3 is an advantage. I'm from SPCA and I can't stand seeing this poor dead horse beaten any longer.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/21 03:35 PM
1

"complaining how your dick is bored on the internet" That's one time when my dick is not bored. Just for clarity's sake.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/07/21 07:28 PM
7

I think those comments make other people uncomfortable. Given the importance we place on appearance, someone saying they're unattractive seems to require pushback or consolation or something. Then there's the perspective of the person you say it to. If they too are unattractive or feel they may be, they may buy into the idea that "no one is ugly" or that there's a genuine workaround that makes such comments moot. So that's awkward. And if the person is attractive, or not since less attractive pe…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/07/21 05:35 PM
1

I have to look like Brad Pitt if I want a woman to find me attractive" and that is not the logical conclusion. I don't disagree, but since this is such a common conclusion, in some form the central conclusion struggling people come to, can you explain what it does mean? What is the logical conclusion to draw?
/r/ExRedPill29/06/21 04:47 PM
4

I'm taking notes. So your saying a guy needs to look like Chris Hemsworth and read you expertly, you with all your subtle cues and obfuscations. OK. That's good to know. I guessssss?
/r/PurplePillDebate12/06/21 12:50 AM
6

Simplicity. People attracted to any colored pill are by definition struggling. Generalizations make it easier to make sense of an issue they don't fully understand. Now people struggle due to shit attitudes like sexism so that's a factor, but not the only one. And the sexists are often looking to simplify complex issues.
/r/ExRedPill11/06/21 03:43 PM
2

I think a lot of men, particularly men who are drawn to discussions like this, seldom or never get comments about their appearance, except perhaps negative ones from Jr high or high school experience. I suspect wanting some feedback adds to the draw of a looks rating site for those people. You're right though. Leave well enough alone. I don't do the number rating thing, but I do believe I'm in the low end of normal attractiveness. So maybe a 4 or a 5 (5.5 being the mid point on a 1-10 scale) if …
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/21 02:34 PM
1

You're responding to someone who is struggling with an issue, while I'm....well I guess I'm doing the same thing.
/r/ExRedPill08/06/21 08:33 PM
0

Are you obligated to say anything?
/r/ExRedPill08/06/21 06:24 PM
-1

Apparently they always wait 3 months, so you're laughing now, but when June rolls around.......
/r/ExRedPill21/05/21 03:01 PM
-1

They may be massing for an attack.
/r/ExRedPill21/05/21 02:09 PM
3

There's a difference between having insecurities (we all do) and letting them guide your behavior. Being around a person who acts insecure is often draining. If my insecurity shows in my behavior or comments, it likely elicits a response from you. Maybe just a mental response as you decide what to say to me or whether to address my comment or behavior at all, but you're still kind of put on the spot. That's not always a bad thing. If you show or express insecurities to someone you're close to th…
/r/ExRedPill19/05/21 01:53 PM
7

OK, I'll stop doing that thing I've never done. Shewww, Problem solved.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/21 09:30 PM
0

I think it's an unhinged mob. An unhinged mob roaming the streets might see someone in need of help and offer some, at the price of joining the mob. They might scare some people away from some part of town they patrol, which maybe has some value. Maybe they break up a crime or two. But mostly they scream at shadows and burn shit and then hold the post mob action banquet of appreciation.
/r/ExRedPill18/05/21 06:20 PM
2

Many people see divorce as a risk they'd like to avoid, for romantic, familial, financial, and social reasons. If you see divorce as aversive, you might believe or want to believe that getting to a certain age together effectively eliminates that risk.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/21 08:29 PM
1

Have you or someone else established that physical attractiveness is the least important consideration? I'd counter with this; If sex is to be part of a relationship, it's best to look for relationship qualities like shared values, goals, and other compatibilities among people we feel some attraction to.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/21 08:11 PM
15

Women cheat about as often as men do. In already established monogamous relationships, women suggest opening the relationship about 2/3 of the time the suggestion is made.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/21 08:04 PM
26

I agree that the metaphor is off, but I don't mind that we use food. Sure, it's a necessity, but the drives for sex and companionship are similar enough. But if we use food, it's more accurate to say that many men are prone to being malnourished, while many women are prone to eating tainted food. This makes many women leery of food altogether and inclined to seek out only food that at least appears unspoiled, with food's appearance being a so-so gauge of healthy food but all women have to work w…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/21 03:27 PM
2

Neither would I, yet you seem to see some value in women messaging men they don't find attractive.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/21 04:25 AM
2

It tells me that my childhood dream of dating and perhaps marrying a woman who finds me unattractive may just come true.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/21 09:49 PM
2

Do they talk disparagingly about "those types of men" when they're performing? I think those comments, the contempt they expressed for some or maybe most of their fan base came earlier in the interview, and not when the women were doing their OF gig. The woman or women ripping their fans may not have thought through that those fans may hear those comments. There's also the possibility that the power dynamic with the men customers on the less powerful end of the deal works for some of the guys. I…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/04/21 08:26 PM
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