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cherryblue12 Archive

View 11 posts and 833 comments by cherryblue12 on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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2

I'm 32, and my preference is for guys to have roughly the same number of previous sexual partners as myself (give or take a few, obviously). I feel like one's n count is a reasonably good indication about one's attitude towards sex, and I'd like to date a guy with a similar attitude to mine. I wouldn't say that there is any number which in and of itself would be a deal breaker for me. I would say that extremely high or extremely low numbers of sexual partners are a warning sign that this person …
/r/PurplePillDebate17/03/16 02:44 PM
2

It's all about context. Does he make less money than I do because he pursued a low-paying career he is passionate about like teaching, or activism, or art? If so, sexy! Does he make less than I do because he's a lazy bum? Not sexy.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/03/16 08:57 PM
1

You say yourself that maternity leave benefits the mother and the father, so how can you call this a 'female' entitlement? I'm didn't write this OP to argue whether or not the US should adopt paid maternity leave, although I did let myself get sucked into that argument a bunch of times on this thread. My point was that as an entitlement, paid maternity leave directly benefits both mothers and fathers, therefore it's not a 'female' entitlement but simply an entitlement. Edit. Ok, I can't help mys…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/02/16 09:10 AM
1

when you say socialist country, do you mean a social democracy or a true socialist country? I've never lived in a true socialist country, but I currently live in a social democracy and society most definitely does not look like crap here.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 10:39 PM
3

I actually disagree that it would make having children less of a setback to one's career. Having kids and taking time off is going to set back your career regardless of whether you are paid or not. What it does is make taking time off to care for your child less of a financial burden to the individual. This gives people more freedom to make reproductive choices based on their own preferences and life circumstances rather than financial considerations. It is more fair, because it makes this freed…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 10:36 PM
2

it directly benefits both men and women who have children. It indirectly benefits men and women who do not have children, because it creates a more equal and just society.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 10:23 PM
3

why only if they can afford it? shouldn't everyone have the ability to be home with their newborn during the first weeks or months of it's life, even if they are not fortunate enough to be wealthy? Wouldn't this be better for the parents, for the children, and for society as a whole? It seems to me that the price of this, be it higher taxes or another mandate for employers, pales in comparison to the benefits. Wealth determines the size of the house you can buy, or the big screen tv, or the bran…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 10:21 PM
2

It's called the Family and Medical Leave Act. It applies to both men and women.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 10:09 PM
4

Actually, the federal government in the USA requires that employers give 12 weeks unpaid leave to both new mothers and new fathers. There is no federal requirement mandating that employers give paid leave to new mothers.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 10:04 PM
2

The point of the OP is not to argue for government mandated parental leave (although I do think we should have it). The point of the OP was to argue that government mandated parental leave benefits men as well as women, therefore it is not a 'female' entitlement the way TPRers claim, but simply an 'entitlement.'
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 10:01 PM
2

Who's going to pay for health care and college? Where's the money going to come from? It comes from taxes. That's what I just said. Why should I pay more taxes so someone else's kid gets to go to college? Because your kid gets to go to college too. And to create a more equal, just society. Why don't I get to decide how my money is spent? Well, you can vote. So there's that. Why should I pay more taxes to pay for a smoker's lung cancer treatment or a promiscuous man's AIDS drugs? Why can't the sm…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 09:58 PM
3

I'd bet much of it is foreign aid from the US to most of these nations; much of it being defrayed defense costs as a result of Scandinavia and Canada's membership in NATO. HAHA no. These countries don't receive foreign aid from the US. Do these nations have 320 million people and 4.5 million square miles of territory to cultivate, manage and defend? No, but this seems mostly like a matter of scale. We also have a lot more money than they do. Do these nations have a top marginal tax rate of 39%? …
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 09:48 PM
6

that was the entire point of the OP, so maybe you're in the wrong thread...
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 09:40 PM
1

Other nations can manage it because they don't have 320 million people spread out over about 4.5 million square miles. Yeah, but we also have a lot more money. At a certain point it's just a matter of scale. Other nations "manage" it because they have taxation rates in excess of 50 to 60% for high earners. They get good bang for their tax buck. Education (including university) is free, health care is free, pensions are state controlled. And they get paid maternity leave (as long as 1 year, in so…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 09:39 PM
3

The most prosperous nations in the world (according to the 2015 Legatum prosperity index) are also same countries that offer the most extensive social welfare systems: Norway, Switzerland, Denmark, New Zealand, Sweden, Canada, Australia, Netherlands, Finland. The US ranks #11, behind all of these countries. Not only do all of these countries offer paid maternity leave, they also offer a whole host of other benefits that are just a pipe dream in the states. So your argument that social welfare sy…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 09:25 PM
2

and yet, every other developed country manages to give mandatory paid maternity leave without collapsing into economic ruin. Guess we should really figure out how they are managing it, seeing as we seem incapable of figuring it out on our own.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 09:09 PM
5

Their problems are a result of a nanny state and government giving people everything, which is what paid maternity leave is part of. No. Their problems are a result of Muslims and other immigrants coming to Europe for free goodies. They won't have to work for them; they can just show up and demand them. The vast majority are coming to Europe as refugees, fleeing a war zone. They're not coming for goodies, they are coming to not die. If you're living in Europe, why do you care about whether the U…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 09:04 PM
1

The Widget Company, along with every other employer, had to fire some workers. They had no choice. They had to make sure the money was going to be there to pay for the maternity leave as it arose. Dude, you made that up. You can't use your made-up example as proof of anything.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 09:01 PM
4

I'm American, but I'm currently living in Europe. Trust me, they're doing fine. I mean, they have their own issues right now with the influx of migrants and terrorism and all that, but their problems are not because of paid maternity leave, I can tell you that. Americans are so convinced we are superior to everyone, but in reality on just about every measure of health, success and happiness, we do worse than most of the other developed countries. We have the best army - that's about it.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 08:55 PM
1

All of this is predicated on the assumption that Mom and Pop Widget Company will fire 10% of their work force if they are required to give paid maternity leave. I have a hard time buying into this because it's exactly the same thing detractors say whenever anyone wants to reform anything, and yet somehow all these dire predictions don't seem to pan out. When Obamacare was under debate everyone kept saying people were going to get fired left and right, and yet somehow, years later, the country ha…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 08:53 PM
6

You know what I mean. If the only thing that mattered were what's best for the employer, then we would still have child labor and 16 hour factory work days. No health insurance, no overtime, no sick leave. 'It doesn't benefit the employer' is not in and of itself a good enough argument against something.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 08:38 PM
1

but do you agree that, were it mandated, it would be a benefit for both men and women?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 08:34 PM
2

But why does this apply to paid maternity leave and not paid sick leave? or paid holiday leave? why should those be mandatory, but paid maternity leave shouldn't be?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 08:30 PM
2

Every other developed country besides America mandates paid maternity leave. How does it cross the line in America, but not in any other developed country?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 08:18 PM
3

I know that. My point was, it's not all about what's beneficial to employers. If it were, we would still have child labor, 16 hour work weeks, no paid overtime or paid holidays or paid sick leave. All of these things exist because employees fought for them.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 08:11 PM
3

Employers don't benefit from giving their employees paid sick leave or holidays, or paying their employees overtime for working over 40 hours a week, but they still have to do it.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 08:00 PM
3

I disagree with pretty much all of this, but let's say for argument's sake that you are right: women are meant to take care of the babies, and men are meant to work. Even if this is true, men still benefit from mandatory paid maternity leave for their wives, for all the reasons I gave in the OP. Most families rely on two incomes, so even if the man stays at work and the woman takes time off to take care of the baby, continuing to receive her salary and having a guarantee that her job is waiting …
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 07:52 PM
3

I think you overestimate the extent to which this applies to all men. I know tons of guys who take paternity leave and suffer 0 consequences at work or at home. I know I for one don't see men who take paternity leave as pussies. I have a friend who's husband was a stay at home dad for a year after they had their second kid, and it worked out great. But lets say for arguments sake that you are right. Men can't take paternity leave without suffering at work and being seen as pussies by their frien…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 07:46 PM
10

No one is forcing you to work True, but I do enjoy eating.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 07:38 PM
4

wow, you have a toxic work environment.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 07:35 PM
2

Change their nature how?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 07:33 PM
5

I'm not sure I get your point here - are you arguing against my claim that Europe, Canada and Japan seem to be doing just fine despite having mandatory paid family leave? Because they have better health outcomes than we do, longer life expectancies, greater social mobility, lower income inequality and higher overall happiness. GDP is not the only measure of 'doing fine.'
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 07:32 PM
4

fair enough, but do you agree that this entitlement benefits both men and women?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 07:29 PM
4

your dad sounds awesome!
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 07:29 PM
2

Because we all know that "parental leave" is really about "maternity leave". Not necessarily. In some countries, the parents get a set amount of family leave and then they can decide themselves how they want to split it between them. The mom can take it all, or the dad can take it all, or they can split it 50-50. I know I for one would be thrilled if my husband was willing to stay home with the baby while I went back to work. And it's about paying women for going on "maternity leave" and protect…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 07:28 PM
3

True, but as a company owner I don't feel I should have to pay extra money because my employees choose to have children. This is the definition of entitlement for both genders. So at least we agree that paid family leave is a benefit to everyone, male and female. It seems the government is hell bent of giving women money anyway it can Wait, I thought we just agreed that paid parental leave is an entitlement for both genders? remember men don't get a choice rather or not a child is born um, that'…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 07:19 PM
4

And yet somehow, every other developed country in the world seems to be managing...
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 07:07 PM
6

But that's my whole argument - paid family leave isn't just a benefit for women, it's a benefit for everyone.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 07:03 PM
9

Until companies try to get around hiring women easy fix to this is to require mandatory paid paternity leave as well. Not only is that more fair, but it will eliminate the incentive for companies to not hire women. As for the costs issue, Europe, Canada and Japan seem to be doing just fine even though their citizens are guaranteed paid family leave. Look at the results. We went from one worker supporting a family of four, to dual incomes barely starting afloat How can you argue that mandatory pa…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 07:02 PM
7

Why not mandatory saving beforehand? Not everyone is in a position to do that kind of saving. And some pregnancies are unplanned. Why punish the employer for hiring them? You're right! And while we're at it, let's get rid of all the other things employers are required to do for their employees, like provide paid sick leave, or overtime, or weekends. Let's bring back child labor and 16 hour work days. Because the only thing that matters is what's best for the employer.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 06:47 PM
7

That's a huge shame. It illustrates how it's not just the laws that need to change, but social norms as well. There's no point in having mandatory parental leave if no one feels they can take it.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 06:38 PM
9

Even if that's true, it's a fact of life now. Most women have no interest in or intention of leaving the work force en masse, even if that were possible (and it's not). So given the situation on the ground, as it were, doesn't it make sense to support mandatory paid maternal and paternal leave?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 06:31 PM
9

doesn't benefit the employer By that logic no one should automatically get weekends off. That doesn't benefit the employer either. and the added cost probably holds everyone else's wages back Does it though? Is there any evidence that wages are higher in companies that don't offer paid parental leave compared to companies that do?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 06:12 PM
5

Childless people don't benefit from free public schools either, but free education is still a right in America.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 06:07 PM
2

Most single guys I know in their 30s and 40s either exclusively date age appropriate women , or cast a wide net, dating all women from around 20 up to and including their own age, maybe even a few years older. The idea that all men are only attracted to teenage girls, no matter their own age, is not consistent with what I see in the real world, and frankly seems more like a fetish or hebephilia.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/16 07:24 AM
2

In the case of a 40 year old man who exclusively pursues 20ish girls? No, in those circumstances I would not judge the girls. They are just kids. Yes, according to the law they are adults, but age is linear, not dichotimous. A 20 year old has a lot more in common with a 15 year old than with a 40 year old, even though they are on opposite sides of the legal cutoff. If the genders were reversed (much older woman going after 18-20 year old boys) I wouldn't judge the boys either. Ever see the movie…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/16 07:18 AM
-1

Same with sluts, then. Women can slut around all they want. I'm free to judge them. Yes, you are. And if you think that a young woman's sexual power is not "real" or that she doesn't know she has this power and is unwilling to use it, then there's a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you. I can't even tell you how many young, good looking women I've seen who are hot, they KNOW they're hot, and they use that fact to extract what they want from men. You're a fool if you believe young hot women do…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/16 05:38 PM
0

Whereas this is shaming men for the exact same reasons. So it's ok. It's completely different reasons. like I said, it's not the fact that they are satisfying their sexual desires that bugs me, it's the fact that they are pursuing relationships in which they have a disproportionate amount of the power. Likewise rich people should be forbidden to date poor people. And people with many sexual partners who have too much experience should be forbidden from dating virgins. Whereas in your world, all …
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/16 05:33 PM
2

Ok, here's what I think: People tend to date people who are on a similar level to them. This is not my opinion, it's a fact: people date other people around the same age, around the same attractiveness level, around the same education level, etc. etc. Some variation on all of these levels is normal, and a little bit more variation on one variable is usually explained by variation on some other variable, like the girl who dates a guy not quite as attractive as she is because he's very smart, or t…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/16 05:30 PM
-1

Awesome! I'm glad to hear it. That lady was a champ. But I disagree with you that it's entirely likely for an older man or woman to do this. I think it's unlikely, and that the older men/women who prey upon the young for their own selfish reasons far outnumber the gems who make their younger partners' lives better.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/16 05:22 PM
-1

There's no power imbalance. A young woman's sexual power is immense and more than counterbalances an older man's economic, educational, experiential and status power. I'll say to this what I said to the other guy: you need to go read Lolita. The extent to which a man sexually desires a woman/girl does not automatically translate into power/agency on her part. If a 40 year old man can pull women in their 20s, who are you to say he shouldn't? I'm not saying he shouldn't. I'm saying if he does this…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/16 05:19 PM
1

I feel like everyone on TRP needs to read Lolita. I wish I had my copy with me, I'd quote the section where Humbert Humbert talks about nymphettes, and how they wield so much power over him. The extent to which men desire a woman/girl sexually does not necessarily translate into power/agency on her part. If she uses her sexuality to gain power over men then yes, she has agency and most of the power in the relationship. But believe it or not, just because you would do anything for a hot chick doe…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/16 05:15 PM
-2

When I said teenager, I meant 18-19, not statutory rape territory.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/16 10:14 AM
-2

I consider myself a feminist, but I disagree with feminists who think this way. If it's shitty for a man to do to a young girl, then it's shitty for a woman to do to a young boy. I've known guys who as teenagers got fucked in the head from dating/having sex with older women, and it pisses me off that society gives these women a pass.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/16 09:35 AM
-4

the responsibility lies with the woman and the man, not only the man. When there is a large age disparity between two individuals in a relationship, the older person has a greater responsibility. Like Dan Savage says, 'campsite rules': in a relationship with an age disparity, the older individual has the responsibility to leave the younger individual in as good or better shape than he/she found them.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/16 08:51 AM
1

I have never seen a "cougar' be shamed for her actions. There's more of a "you go girl!" response. I agree, and I think this is sexist and needs to change. Again, its their responsibility to not date men who put them in an unequal relationship. They can say yes or no. Some people make huge mistakes financially at that age. But do we undo the hands of time and shame financial institutions? No. We call that growing up. I agree. I've known many girls who made the mistake of getting into an unequal …
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/16 08:14 AM
-2

I said that in many cases it precludes an equal relationship. In some cases it doesn't. I think it is absolutely possible for healthy, equal relationships to involve partners who have disparities in some of these areas, but in my experience, partnerships in which 1 member holds all the advantages (money, education, social standing, maturity, experience) over the other, that is seldom an equal relationship.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/16 07:42 AM
4

I think it's just as bad for 40-year old women to routinely target 20 year old men. My problem is with the age/power difference, regardless of gender. A 20 year old is an adult, yes. But that doesn't mean they are equivalent in every way to someone 20 years older than they are. Someone can be an adult, and still be at a disadvantage in a relationship.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/16 07:40 AM
-1

There is nothing inconsistent in thinking that slut shaming is bad, and older men exclusively pursuing much younger women is also bad. Slut shaming is an attempt to control women's sexual behavior. To take away their freedom of self determination. It perpetuates a system of inequality, in which men are free to pursue their own sexual desires with relative impunity, while women are punished socially for doing the exact same thing. Inequality = bad. My problem with older men who solely pursue very…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/16 07:34 AM
1

First off, romantic love is completely conditional. I had a feeling that's where this was going. And I think this brings us to an impass, because either you believe unconditional love is possible or you dont. But you wanted to know why I think these attitudes reflect poorly on your character, and I think we got to the root of it: because it demonstrates your lack of capacity for unconditional (romantic) love.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/16 03:02 PM
1

First of all, no two different people are exactly alike. So let's say there are two alternate realities, one in which a girl has not been raped and one in which she has. What you are saying is, you would date the girl in the reality in which she has not been raped, but would not date her in the reality in which she had been raped. This is not real love. Real love is unconditional, and what you are describing is the definition of conditional love.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/16 02:20 PM
1

You say you want to date the 'best people available to you.' So in your view, a woman who has not been raped is actually better than a woman who has? You would actually assign value to a person based on experiences beyond their control? That's just gross. I take it back - I DO think this makes you an asshole.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/16 01:59 PM
1

Absolutely, but I'm under no illusions - it would make me less attractive. I would have to drop my standards. Fair enough. I guess we all have to decide for ourselves how much baggage we can accept in a prospective romantic partner. I guess if it's not less than you have yourself, no one can really acuse you of being a hypocrit. I don't think that's really sufficient. If somebody has, for example, inhibitions on their ability to love, you won't see that until months into the relationship This co…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/16 11:47 AM
4

I work pretty hard on myself to minimise my baggage because I think it would be entitled otherwise. Imagine something happens that is beyond your control, like you lose a leg in a car accident. Wouldn't you still be a worthwhile human being, worthy of love and capable of giving it? Assuming all I know is that they are a victim, how am I supposed to distinguish That parts easy. Just take two seconds to get to know her. People who can't lead normal lives or have normal relationships are easy to sp…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/16 11:39 AM
5

I do, although less so. It makes it seem like you only want someone with zero baggage. But everyone has baggage. Guys who say things like 'I won't date a rape survivor' are kind of saying 'you have to accept my baggage, but I won't accept yours.' And why draw the line at rape? Why not avoid all women with bad relationships with their mothers, or a history of being bullied? These can lead to baggage too. Now, if you said 'I wouldn't date someone who was so traumatized by a rape that she couldn't …
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/16 11:24 AM
4

Because it makes you look like you are someone who bails if the going gets tough. Say you and I are on a first date, and you casually mention you wouldn't date a rape survivor. I wouldn't throw my glass of wine in your face, call you an asshole and storm out, but I wouldn't go on a second date with you either. In my mind I'm thinking 'what if we start dating, and I get raped? Will he break up with me? What if we get married and ten years from now I get breast cancer? Will he divorce me?' Shit ha…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/16 11:04 AM
2

I don't necessarily think this makes you an asshole, but it doesn't reflect especially well on your character either. It's kind of like a girl refusing to date a war veteran because he has PTSD. It's understandable - the relationship will have some added difficulties - but it doesn't make you look like an especially awesome person.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/16 10:34 AM
1

If you think having consensual sex with a woman is never "exploiting" them, then how can you claim women exploit men by putting them in the friend zone? After all, there is no such thing as a non-consensual friendship. No girl puts a gun to a guy's face and says "be my friend or else!" If exploitation cannot occur in the presence of consent, then by definition there is nothing exploitative about a girl friend-zoning a guy. If it is possible for male/female friendships to contain an element of ex…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/16 04:02 PM
8

Your post implies that you think there is a linear relationship between a man's experience with women and his attractiveness to women (i.e., as experience goes up, attractiveness goes up). I'm pretty sure this is inaccurate. First of all, correlation does not equal causation - just because men with experience are attractive to women doesn't mean the experience caused the attraction. In all likelihood, their pre-existing level of attractiveness led to their ability to rack up more experiences. Se…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/16 01:40 PM
5

Of course i'd give you the chance to explain yourself, but if it turned out you really were RP, I'd break it off. I couldn't date someone who subscribes to a belief system which states that I am an inately inferior human being.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/12/15 03:47 PM
2

You are ignoring the possibility that what women want really can change over time. You are assuming that deep down, every woman really wants the good looking bad boy and just fools herself into thinking she can be happy with the good guy. I'm sure this applies to some women, but not nearly as many as you think. When it comes down to it though, you either believe women are capable of understanding their own motivations or you dont. If you don't believe this, then nothing I say is going to change …
/r/PurplePillDebate31/12/15 02:53 PM
1

I actually agree with most of what you say here, although I think your explanation for why women leave their otherwise great husbands is overly reductive and ignores the fact that people change over time. Even if you are right that it boils down to lack of attraction in these cases, it is a leap to conclude that lack of attraction is always caused by men being 'too dutiful and compliant.' Maybe the husband got really fat. Maybe the woman's sexuality (or her awareness of it) changed over time, an…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/12/15 02:45 PM
1

Fair enough.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/12/15 02:25 PM
1

Yeah but why mace that one guy, out of all the guys who have ever started a conversation? There must be more to the story, is all I'm saying.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/12/15 02:25 PM
3

I was thinking more of couples in general, not just divorced women. I'm assuming your theory extends to breaking up with boyfriends, am I right? Sleeping with ones ex is pretty much par for the course, specifically because he IS someone you are physically attracted to. Relationships end for all sorts of reasons. To claim it all boils down to one variable, even one as important as sexual attraction, is to drastically oversimplify one of the most complicated aspects of the human condition. But if …
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/15 06:10 PM
2

Out of curiosity, what is your explanation for why so many women sleep with their exes?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/15 05:54 PM
2

It's one thing to say that a woman who is no longer attracted to her husband will give an excuse to avoid looking heartless. It's another thing to say that every woman who gives a reason for divorcing her husband that isn't related to attraction is lying to herself or others. When you get right down to it, it's all loss of attraction. If he were working his ass off and looked like Brad PItt, she'd stay with him. If he were cold and aloof, and looked hot, she'd stay with him. If he were addicted …
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/15 05:29 PM
2

I mean sexuality desirable
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/15 05:15 PM
2

I agree that women change their strategy as they get older. Where I disagree is with the claim that they go after men they do not find sexuality attractive. I don't know if this is the case with men but as a woman, I can tell you that what we find attractive changes over time. I see guys now that I would have jumped at in my early 20s who seem ridiculous to me now. It's not only that I wouldn't date them, I don't find them physically attractive anymore. TRP asserts that a woman's strategy change…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/15 05:12 PM
3

There are times I feel like PPD is just a battle of anecdotes - you tell me your stories and I tell you mine. I don't doubt there are women out there who behave this way. Where I disagree is with the TRP assertions that a) all or most women behave this way, b) this is seen as an acceptable strategy among women and c) this type of behavior is unique to women. Believe it or not, most women, myself included, judge the few women who behave like this (date men they don't like for money or resources) …
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/15 04:42 PM
1

What actually happens is women giving up sex early to a very attractive man for two reasons: 1) because she just wants to fuck a hot guy for the fun, the feelz, the validation, the affirmation of her worth as a woman, and/or bragging rights; or 2) in the hopes of locking him down in a relationship with porn star style sex. This type of behavior seems more typical of really young girls, like, 16-22 maybe. If this is your age group, I can see why you would think this applies to all women. But I th…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/15 03:58 PM
4

That's up to you of course, but I think what you will get if you limit yourself to girls who sleep with you right away is a bunch of girls who are just looking for casual sex and may not really want you as a relationship partner. Which may be exactly what you want, in which case rock on!
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/15 03:25 PM
3

What I'm trying to get across is that the speed with which a girl has sex with you is not a great indicator of how physically attractive she finds you. She may think you are the hottest guy she has ever seen, but she still will not have sex with you right away if a) that's not her style or b) she wants a relationship and is trying to build one with you.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/15 03:17 PM
3

I think you are drawing innacurate conclusions about female sexuality based on behavior you have observed. If a girl is looking for casual sex, the most important criterion will of course be physical attractiveness because the entirety of the relationship revolves around sex. But if she is looking for a real relationship, she will be far more picky about the guy, because this is someone she is actually going to live her life with. Attractiveness still matters, it's just now one among many factor…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/15 03:09 PM
1

Of course the hot guys will get laid more, on average, than the average guys. But that doesn't mean that for an individual woman, time to sex is determined solely by physical attraction. Of course you are free to set whatever criteria you want for LTRs, but it makes me a little sad, cause I think you may rule out some girls who genuinely like you.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/15 02:43 PM
2

I think you are assuming an insult where one does not inherently exist. Your assumption is that the speed with which a women has sex with a man is determined by how attractive she finds him, but this is often not the case. In many cases, it has much less to do with the hotness of the guy and everything to do with what she is looking for at that point in time. In fact, a women who postpones having sex may actually be more attracted to you, so much so that she wants to develop an actual relationsh…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/15 02:33 PM
6

So what you are saying is, you are pissed that women who got pumped and dumped learned from the experience and try to avoid getting pumped and dumped in the future? In your view, women have no right to self preservation if it gets in the way of you getting laid? How can you blame women for not wanting to be used by you for sex when you yourself don't want to be used by them for relationships? They just want what you want - to not be used and abused.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/15 02:20 PM
7

I find this hard to believe. If this girl maced everyone who started a conversation with her she would be in jail right now. I suspect there is more to the story that you either don't know or aren't telling us.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/15 02:06 PM
2

Eww, Trump. Everything about this man is disgusting - his looks, his politics, his personality. Slightly less eww...he has nice eyes, but is too chubby. Honestly, I don't have enough info to have formed a strong opinion about Ted Cruz. handsome for his age - if I were 30 years older and a republican, i would totally date him. Eww, Chris Christie. Everything about this man is disgusting. Not at all attractive, but looks like a nice guy. He looks like he could be the dad of one of my friends. Eww,…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/12/15 03:42 PM
1

It was also enforced after marriage by family, church and society. True, but girls married super young then, like, 15 or 16. Considering they probably didn't even start to be interested in sex until maybe 13 at the youngest, that doesn't give her much time to figure out ways around societies rules. But they would have had much more time, not to mention intelligence, experience and wherewithal, to figure out ways around society's rules (assuming they wanted to) between the ages of 15 and whenever…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/12/15 03:12 AM
2

It's not common sense. Every woman who has ever cuckolded a man or tricked him into raising and providing financially for her child was a virgin at some point during her lifetime. The idea that you can protect yourself from cuckoldry by simply marrying a virgin is wishful thinking. Women are people - some of them are good, some of them are bad, but ALL OF THEM ARE VIRGINS UNTIL THEY ARE NOT. addendum: If you're really worried about being tricked into raising a child that's not your own, I think …
/r/PurplePillDebate25/12/15 04:16 AM
1

I'm afraid I don't believe you. your intuition may tell you this, but my intuition and experience do not, therefore you're going to have to provide some actual evidence to convince me. you're welcome to have this belief, of course, and live your life accordingly. But unless it's based on something more than just your intuition, it's irrational.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/15 10:41 AM
1

so, the 'odds' really don't say this. your intuition says it.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/12/15 11:09 PM
1

true enough. I suspect this has a lot more to do with the male fetish for virginity that concerns regarding paternity.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/12/15 03:41 PM
1

First of all, most girls in the past married very young, like, before the age of 20, so being celibate her whole life up until marriage didn't mean much. odds say that a virgin is most likely going to father your children where are you getting this? It also signifies her willingness to wait for the right guy maybe in today's society. But it also might signify her lack of interest in sex altogether. Or her religiosity. You just don't give a damn about the male posibility of getting cuckolded. Won…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/12/15 03:39 PM
1

that would make sense if women were given the choice of whether or not to remain virgins before marriage, but most of the time this was strictly enforced by their families, the church, and society. So being a virgin didn't mean she didn't want to sleep around, or that she would never want to sleep around in the future if she thought she could get away with it. it just meant her decisions were being controlled by external forces.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/12/15 03:36 PM
10

Penis size doesn't matter for a lot of women. As for the women for whom it does matter, I would imagine most of them would say it feels better, and/or makes it easier to orgasm from PIV sex. There's probably a psychological element in there somewhere too, since women as well as men are taught to associate large penises with virility and hyper-masculinity.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/15 08:01 PM
3

that's a great question. What makes evidence convincing? For starters, one should never base a conclusion on a single piece of evidence. Rather, one should look for a confluence of evidence, coming from multiple sources and multiple mediums. For example, one should never conclude beyond a doubt that something is true just because one study says so. Rather, you would want to see multiple studies conducted by multiple researchers in multiple samples controlling for multiple potential confounding f…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/15 07:36 PM
6

some evidence is more convincing than others. No offense to your friend, but his evidence isn't that convincing. I'd say it's far more likely that i'm right than he is. If you believe the anecdotal evidence I have given here is not convincing, by all means, tell me why. What could explain the trends I have listed here, besides my theory? Do you have an alternate explanation? I have an alternate explanation for your theory that martians live on the moon: Your friend is nuts.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/15 07:18 PM
3

Not at all. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence suggesting that many wealthy, older women pursue romantic relationships with young, handsome men in the same way that rich, older men pursue romantic relationships with young, beautiful women. There are all the examples from Hollywood of stars marrying men who are 10, 15 years younger than they are. There is the growing sex tourism trade, where women from western countries go to the third world to have sex with handsome poor men (I saw a neat doc…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/15 07:10 PM
5

jesus christ. where in any of my posts here did I assert anything? I said I suspect this is true. Since you obviously don't know what the word suspect means, I'll give you the dictionary definition: "Have an idea or impression of the existence, presence or truth of something without certain proof." There you go! now you've learned something today.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/15 06:57 PM
3

Maybe the stats don't exist. That doesn't mean i'm wrong. it just means we don't have evidence either way. you said yourself, the article you cite didn't break it down by SES for women. So it doesn't show that I'm NOT right. I didn't find any stats on age gaps by SES for women, but I'm not going to lie, I didn't really look that hard.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/15 06:51 PM
5

Like I said, I suspect it's a growing trend. http://www.adatingnest.com/freedating/rich-women-looking-for-poor-men/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_sex_tourism http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2401788/Sex-tourism-Meet-middle-aged-middle-class-women-Britains-female-sex-tourists.html
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/15 06:43 PM
4

the quote I gave was from the top link in your OP. it states that like older men, older women are more likely to marry someone younger if it's their second marriage, although the effect is not as strong as it is for men. I don't know if the younger men are marrying the older women for their money, but then again I don't know for a fact that the younger women are marrying the older men for their money. it's a safe bet though.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/15 06:34 PM
6

dude, i just cited the exact same article that you cited. i have as much data on this as you do.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/15 06:27 PM
6

"Among women who have recently remarried, the likelihood of having a much younger spouse is far smaller than among remarried men, but still greater than among women in their first marriage" It's a growing trend, I suspect.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/15 06:24 PM
8

so what you're saying is, old rich men frequently marry young, beautiful, presumably gold-digger second wives. I don't have any evidence to back this up, but I suspect that old, rich women prefer to marry young, beautiful, presumably gold-digger second husbands. What this demonstrates, in my opinion, is that hypergamy is as much a male phenomenon as it is a female one.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/15 06:18 PM
4

Men don't know if our child is ours (traditionally). A virgin ensured you were the first one in there. This is a stupid explanation for why men prefer virgins. First of all, marrying a virgin is no guarantee that her children will be yours. She could go fuck some other guy the day after she marries you, and you would be none the wiser. Second of all, marrying a woman who is not a virgin doesn't mean she's pregnant with another guy's child. In fact, there is a pretty sure-fire way to tell if a wo…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/15 12:21 PM
1

Women seem to want to believe that they can work a part or full time job, maintaining a career, and rather than understand that dynamic that goes along with two hetrosexual parents raising a child playing certain roles, they want to be selfish and pretend they can have it all - the career, the job, the respectable husband, and the children. No - you can't. watch me.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/07/15 02:43 AM
1

I find it odd that you seem to think that you can somehow raise a family AND have a full-time career without sacrificing one or the other. You can't. That's not how life works. Not true. It's not a fact of nature, it's a consequence of the fact that America is the ONLY industrialized nation not to mandate paid maternity leave. That we lag behind just about every other country in the developed world in terms of access to affordable childcare. I've talked to Canadians and Danes and Australians and…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/07/15 10:57 PM
1

If this were not the case we would not have blanketed disciplines and evolutionary biology which proves over and over again through empirical research and data that the reason one human in one cultures hundreds of thousands of years ago sought power and fame in order to procreate is no different than a human in modern-day America climbing the corporate ladder for money and fame in order to procreate. This is just not true. scientists in these fields can't even agree on exactly how people acted t…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/15 07:42 PM
1

Everyone acts on biological imperative all the time - always. You are a product of your programming - everyone is. This is just silly. You're completely discounting the role of culture and socialization in influencing human behavior. If it were truly the case that all human behavior is simply a product of biological programming, then why does behavior vary so significantly from culture to culture? It's nature AND nurture, not just nature alone. This is what separates us from other species of mam…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/15 06:26 PM
1

most women (MOST women ) seek out men with whom they can have children, and because of that most women either choose to stop working or choose flexible jobs. Yes, but that does not necessarily mean these women are acting according to a biological imperative. The fact is, America is a hard place for a woman to have both a career and a family. There is no mandated maternity leave, and those women lucky enough to work at a company that allows for paid maternity leave typically only get 6-8 weeks at…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/15 12:31 PM
2

I don't believe that at all. You're saying that if an oil tycoon making 5 million dollars of year - something that is impossible unless you have the mental, strategic, and intellectual fortitude to accomplish such status - showed you romantic interest that you would choose a college professor who knows the finer points of romantic literary history and only makes $45,000 and has none of the financial or job security? I mean, you don't have to believe me, obviously, but it's true. If I wanted to h…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/15 03:28 PM
1

I have never understood why a person would choose to be in a relationship with someone they don't really like. But then again, I enjoy being single so there isn't really an incentive for me to date someone who doesn't make me happy.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/15 03:14 PM
2

You're not going to meet a construction worker making $35,000 a year who is intellectual other than the down-to-earth wisdom someone who watches The Fast and Furious over a sixer of PBR has by simply existing. No, but I might meet a starving artist or a graduate student or even college professor who makes very little money but is intellectually capable and well read. I would choose a college professor earning 40k a year over an oil tycoon earning 5 mill a year any day. Let me propose a counter t…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/15 03:12 PM
1

you are citing the standard evolutionary psychology narrative here - that men seek out physical attractiveness because it signals fertility/good genes, while women seek out social status, money and strength because they signal the ability to support offspring. I don't believe this narrative is especially accurate, certainly not for myself or any of the women I know. You say women seek social status and money in addition to physical attractiveness, but these are not the things I listed as importa…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/15 02:56 PM
5

yes it is, but I would just like to point out that for me, and I believe a lot of other women, this is just one way to settle. Choosing a partner with a strong physical connection but no intellectual or emotional connection would also be "settling" for me. Whereas for men, particularly RP men, as /u/IDENo's comment illustrates, settling seems to be related almost exclusively to physical attractiveness.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/15 02:41 PM
1

interesting. thank you for sharing your perspective.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/15 02:16 PM
1

I think you make an interesting point here. For me, I see the existence of these connections as dichotomous (i.e., either I have a physical connection with someone or I don't), but I think you're probably right that there is far more nuance to it in real life.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/15 02:14 PM
3

so, when you say you will never settle, does that mean you will never choose a partner who deviates from your conception of the ideal partner?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/15 02:13 PM
2

I think you make a really good point, that human beings are constantly evolving throughout their lives and that the person you meet at 20 may not be the same person when they're 40. I'm still not sure what your idea of "settling" is, though.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/15 02:12 PM
3

so just to clarify, for you, settling means choosing a partner that does not meet your criteria for an ideal partner?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/15 01:56 PM
2

could you elaborate on this a bit? Starting with what you mean when you use the word "settling."
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/15 01:55 PM
1

Actually, I think PUA is much better than TRP. PUA is about getting women to sleep with you, but there's nothing in there about hating women. Not that they respect women or anything, but they don't denigrate them or blame them for all of society's problems either. From what I can tell, PUA's don't slut shame or fetishize virginity. If a PUA manages to get a woman to sleep with him, he doesn't turn around and claim that she is now damaged goods. pick up artists are just guys trying to get laid. T…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/07/15 04:41 PM
3

Anyone has a right to think whatever they want, no restrictions. And they have the right to do whatever they want, with the restriction that they operate within the confines of the law. Simply put, my opinion of /r/TheRedPill is this: they have a right to exist, and I have a right to disagree with them, think poorly of them, and if I so desire, avoid them. I do wish that there was a more moderate version of the men's rights movement, because I think some of the points they bring up are very vali…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/15 05:20 PM
2

Freshman year of college there was a guy who had a huge crush on me, who I just wasn't all that into. It wasn't that he was unattractive, or that there was anything wrong with him, I just didn't feel any romantic chemistry. Anyway, after a few months of completely platonic acquaintanceship this guy asked me out on a date, and because I was too young to trust my gut on these things, I said yes. He did everything right - he showed up at my dorm room door with a flower, took me out to dinner, was a…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/15 02:59 PM
1

No, I wouldn't date a guy shorter than I am. I'm 5'2", so a guy would have to be pretty darn short to be shorter than me. The shortest guy I've ever dated was 5'5". Exception to the rule: Peter Dinklage.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/15 12:27 PM
4

For the guy's benefit. I can't speak for all women of all ages (because NAWALT) but most women I know, myself included, want to date a nice guy that they find physically attractive. Yes, niceness alone won't make a girl want to date you. But neither will attractiveness. it's the combination of the two that most girls are looking for.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/15 02:24 PM
2

hmmm. I'll keep that in mind :)
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/15 02:13 PM
8

Actually, sexual desire and relationships ARE complicated. TRP heuristics like AWALT and AF/BB are gross oversimplifications of real-life phenomena. I'm just trying to flesh it out a bit for you from a woman's perspective. But seeing as guys here don't believe women know what they want, I can't see why I bother.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 09:02 PM
3

I can definitely see where you're getting that - on the surface it does look pretty much like the definition of hypergamy. But the story plot deviates from the TRP AF/BB narrative in some important ways: First, the main character's two husbands don't really fit the AF/BB dichotomy that well. Her 1940s husband is a badass british army intelligence officer (alpha) who is devoted to her (beta) and her 1740s husband is a badass scottish rebel fighter (alpha) who is devoted to her (beta). She doesn't…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 08:55 PM
3

I agree, women want the qualities that TRP describes as alpha AND the qualities that TRP describes as beta. Where I disagree is with the idea that women are only sexually attracted to the alpha traits, and I think romance novels refute this because the idealized men in them have both alpha and beta traits. No woman wants to read a romance novel about a purely alpha guy, because that's not what women find sexually arousing. Now, the one instance where I will agree with TRP is specifically within …
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 05:44 PM
6

ok yeah, you can't be ugly as balls and expect women to fall all over you because you are loving, loyal and devoted. But I'm arguing that, contrary to TRP philosophy, these traits make a man more attractive, not less attractive. So if you are trying to make yourself more attractive to women, start by hitting the gym, eating healthy, dressing better etc., but then once you've accomplished that, just be a nice person.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 01:38 PM
13

By 'snagging an alpha' I meant 'locking him down and making him emotionally commit'. i know what you meant. i think you're missing a lot of the nuance of what makes these stories appealing to women. sure, the fantasy is about getting a super hot guy. but it's also about having a super idealized love story/romance/relationship. that aspect of it, the imagined experience of the emotional commitment itself, is as much a part of the fantasy as the hot guy. also, the men in these novels aren't just a…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 05:15 AM
7

most TRPers would describe a man who is loving, loyal, unconditionally and unquestioningly devoted to his woman to be beta, and yet these are all qualities displayed by the fantasy men in romance novels. all these romance novel hotties have oneitis and would be ridiculed by TRPers. If TRP were correct, these behaviors should make men less attractive to women. But if this were the case, why would romance novel men, idealized men designed specifically to appeal to women, have so many beta traits?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 04:35 AM
12

Not always. The love interest in Outlander was a virgin before he married the main character. I can think of other examples of romance novel type guys who are super hot but don't necessarily have many options. Edward from Twilight and the guy from the CW show Beauty and the Beast come to mind. Having options doesn't make a guy attractive, it's a potential byproduct of the fact that he's already attractive. From what I can see, TRP takes attributes that women find attractive in a man (being hands…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 04:09 AM
15

well first of all, i think the idea that treating women like garbage makes a man appear more attractive is seriously, seriously flawed. but ignoring that for second, the point I was trying to make is that the fantasy is not just "snagging an alpha." having this unrealistically amazing man be obsessively in love with you is part of the fantasy. it's as important as the fact that he's amazing. women who get off on these novels do so not just because they find attractive men sexually arousing, but …
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 03:51 AM
62

There's a really important piece that you're missing here - all of the heroes in romance novels (aka female porn) are absolutely, 100% BESOTTED with the main character. They are obsessed with her, they can't get enough of her, they would take a bullet/sword/dagger/tomahawk/laster gun in the chest for her without a second thought. This contradicts the TRP notion that girls are attracted to men who are uninterested in them or who treat them like garbage. Girls don't want to be treated like garbage…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 01:28 AM
1

I think what you're saying makes sense, and it's not a double standard because your issue isn't with women having sex with multiple men, its with why some women have sex with multiple men. From your comment, it seems to me like you don't see a problem with women who have a lot of sex because they want to have a lot of sex, but with women who use sex as a means to other ends, such as extracting money or gifts from men. I don't blame you for this - I wouldn't want a relationship with someone who d…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/07/15 06:17 PM
2

Is this going to far in terms of consent? Absolutely. this is fricken ridiculous. I consider myself a feminist, but all this obsession with sex and consent is going way way too far. Would you (as a male/female) feel a bit turned off or creeped out that your partner would want you to sign a document before sex? Absolutely. I can't think of anything that would get me out of the mood faster. Would you feel suspicious, like he was covering his ass so that he'd be free to do what he wanted? I would f…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/15 04:58 PM
1

that's dark, man. what makes you think you're doomed to unhappiness? you're in your late 20s, the world is your oyster!
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/15 04:29 PM
1

the same in every way? that makes no sense. the very definition of a double standard is that it is a rule or principle that is applied differently to different groups of people. If they were the same in every way, they wouldn't be part of a different group, now would they? It's a double standard in our society that African Americans are more likely to go to jail for drugs even though they are NOT more likely to actually use drugs than white people. By your logic, blacks and whites aren't the sam…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/15 04:21 PM
5

a double standard is a rule that is applied unfairly to certain groups of people. How is you having a penis, but not desiring to have sex with men, a rule that is being applied unfairly?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/15 02:40 AM
1

I'm a woman, and I mind. So by your logic, that makes it not ok.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/15 02:32 AM
4

that's not what double standard means.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/15 02:31 AM
7

I see nothing wrong with men wanting to have sex with as many women as possible. I do, however, have a problem with the double standard - most TRP men think that it's fine for THEM to sleep with as many women as they want, but if a woman does this she's damaged goods because biotruths and that one study that you read that one time. I don't find your desire irrational, but I do find your hypocrisy irrational.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/15 08:14 PM
1

Was it worth it for you?
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/15 07:48 PM
2

First of all, it's rude to give someone a list of all their flaws when they didn't ask for one. Second of all, not being super skinny isn't a flaw, she just wasn't his type. In my experience, most guys don't give a shit if a girl has an extra 5 lbs on her, so knowing in excruciating detail the extent to which this guy finds her extra 5 lbs disgusting has no benefit for her, because chances are good the next guy won't care. Imagine if a girl wrote you a break up note that looked like this: "you a…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/15 06:09 PM
5

Why the fuck did this guy feel the need to write a manuscript about how physically unappealing he found her, when a simple "hey! had a great time last night, but I just didn't feel much of a romantic connection. Wish you all the best!" would have done fine? This guy is a complete tool. I love this part of the girl's response: You don't have to fancy me. We all have a good friend who we look at ruefully and think “you're lovely, but you just don't tickle my pickle”. We wish we were attracted to t…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/15 05:38 PM
8

I always imagine them as dumpy, nerdy high school guys who think that the way to get a girl to want them is to be her personal errand boy and shoulder to cry on. Then they figure out this doesn't work and they swing WAY too far in the opposite direction and think that the way to get girls to want them is to treat them like irrational children.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/15 03:26 PM
2

Yeah, this happens to me a lot. Mostly I get really, really pissed off by stuff I read here and have to go take a walk to try to calm down. Occasionally something I read on here will be thought provoking, but mostly it's just a way to waste time. I've also tried to ween myself off of PDD, but I keep coming back. It's like internet crack.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/15 12:36 PM
3

Women's best shot at winning is to marry young to a somewhat older (early 20s to late 20s) man who is responsible and well established and wants to settle down. Here's what I don't get - let's say you're right, and a girl can get the "highest quality male" (as in, best looking, makes the most money) if she settles down young. Even if this is true, she's still giving up a lot by doing this. She's giving up chances to date other men, focus on her career, live in other countries, to have her own li…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/15 12:16 PM
2

All I've gotten is this: "women can be physically aroused by dread, but it doesn't mean they're ok." sigh. no. backward. the point was, women can be induced into engaging in sex by dread, but that does not mean they are physically aroused by it. what part of my repeatedly saying I did NOT enjoy having sex with my emotionally abusive boyfriend was unclear? seriously.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/15 04:35 AM
3

if you say so, man. All I can say is, I'm a girl, and I know a lot of other girls, and neither I nor any girl I know has ever felt happy when her boyfriend withheld emotional affection or flirted with other chicks. At least, none of the emotionally healthy girls I know. I've known some girls with personality disorders who thrived on all that drama...maybe those are the girls in the field reports? If so, i would tread carefully if I were you...these are the same girls who "accidentally" get pregn…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/15 04:29 AM
2

Try living for you and make yourself happy and maybe she will come around. If she does then great. If not then you are living for you now and should find some happiness there. This sounds like great advice to me. Nothing about dread game here, just a guy accepting the situation for what it is, acknowledging that he only has control over himself, and focusing on his own health and hobbies. I was cordial to my wife. I just didn't shower her with emotional attention. this also isn't really dread ga…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/15 04:19 AM
2

I've stopped giving her good night kisses and hugging her. I'm cordial to her, but I don't shower her with emotion. No good bye kisses, no hugs, and no cuddling (I tell her I'm too tired). I'm spending a lot of my free time playing guitar or working out now. Last night I played at a bar and she saw me laughing with some women afterwards. After a few weeks ignoring her, she's become more physical. She's kissing me, she's grinding on me, and she wants sex now. I began to pay attention to her. We'r…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/15 04:08 AM
3

the wrong word, or the wrong strategies? when a guy withholds emotional affection from his girlfriend, or flirts with other women, or makes her think he's going to leave her, that DOES cause dread. What it does NOT cause is sexual desire.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/15 03:54 AM
2

Dear dead bedroom, Have you discussed this with your wife? Have you determined the cause of the dead bedroom (is it lack of libido? too much stress? too little time/privacy)? If the cause is something that can be fixed, try to fix it. Hire a babysitter, rent a hotel room, hit the gym. It's also possible that your wife just doesn't want to have sex with you anymore. Maybe her libido is gone and she doesn't want to have sex with anyone. Maybe she is no longer in love with you. How do you fix it? Y…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/15 03:42 AM
2

If physical arousal doesn't imply desire, can you at least tell me what desire is? you seem to think that the fact that a woman gets wet (i.e., her vagina is lubricated) means she is aroused and desires sex. This is often the case, but not always. Lubrication is the body's natural response to sexual activity. If a woman starts to have sex, she will often become lubricated even if she isn't really all that into it. It's even possible for rape victims, women who are actively not consenting to sex …
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/15 03:02 AM
2

emotional abuse doesn't create desire either. you think because she gets wet and has an orgasm (or fakes one) that she's happy? As someone who was once in this exact position, I can tell you, she's probably not.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/15 01:20 AM
1

Why is lack of emotional support any different than lack of physical attention? Why is the misery you felt without emotional support different from misery a man feels without physical attention? This is a completely separate issue. I believe that physical affection is just as important as emotional affection, and I believe a man or woman has just as much right to physical/sexual attention as they do to emotional attention. I do not advocate that women use sex to extort things from their boyfrien…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/15 01:07 AM
4

I have to ask, does your current boyfriend receive such sex? Yes he does. And I love every moment of it :). If he wants a blow job all he has to do is ask, and I'll do it not because I'm afraid he'll leave or because I want to extort affection from him, but because I like doing things that make him happy. None of this outlines a problem with dread. It's all about your ex-boyfriend. If he gave you emotional support, when the sex increased you would still be with him. This makes sense only if the …
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/15 12:53 AM
2

I once had a boyfriend who pulled all of this shit on me. Denied me emotional support and affection, flirted with other women. And sure, he got all the sex he wanted. I was his little sex slave, ready to blow him any time he wanted in the hopes that he would give me some affection. And I was miserable. Absolutely miserable. Then one day I got a ride home from a guy friend who was actually nice to me. Who seemed happy to see me, who seemed to enjoy talking to me, who seemed to care how I was doin…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/15 12:38 AM
3

the "work out regularly" thing is the only one of those I can see leading to an increase in genuine attraction. Maybe this works on some girls, but most girls, if their husband withdraws emotional support and attention or flirts with other women, will just get pissed and want to sleep with you even less. Or they will get scared and try to use sex to get you back. If a girl sucks your dick because she's scared you'll leave, she's not enjoying it.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/15 12:19 AM
1

You claim that TRP is about helping boys overcome bad teachings that they are flawed, dangerous, oppressive, whatever, but if you look at TRP sidebar material, the TRP Fundamental Beliefs, you don't see too many points about this. You do see LOTS of bullet points about how women are either evil or inferior to men, such as (and I am not paraphrasing, these are copy/pasted from the TRP sidebar): 1) Women are irrational and inconsistent, they have a capacity for logic but it is not their modus oper…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/15 12:16 AM
3

If I'm viewing the red pill with Nazi glasses, you're viewing it through rose colored glasses. You talk about wanting to get along with women, make each other happy - you really think that's all TRP is about? If so you are incredibly naive. That may be YOUR goal, but that is not what TRP is about. TRP is about men reclaiming dominance over women. Dominance was taken away from them by feminism, and they want it back. You think all this "women are children" stuff is new? That TRPers are the first …
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/15 12:00 AM
1

yep, all of those things.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/15 11:42 PM
1

dread game is showing women that you're able to leave at any moment if she isn't satisfying your needs. But why? Why do you need to show her this? Because you want her to satisfy your needs. Now imagine there was an easier way to get your needs satisfied - just smack her around a bit until she gets the picture. After all, she's just a child. The oldest teenager in the house, right? Children need discipline. They need a strong hand to guide them otherwise they will stray.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/15 11:33 PM
3

think about it...the goal of dread game is often to control women's behavior, regardless of the negative impact it has on the woman. If a man doesn't care about the harm he might do to a woman, the only thing preventing him from beating his wife to make her behave a certain way is the fact that it's illegal. I've read several FRs back when I could still stomach visiting the TRP sub that made me think "man, I bet this guy wishes he could just punch his wife in the face and be done with it."
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/15 11:09 PM
4

do you think white guys who mainly date Asian women are creepy/weird/fetishists? ...a little. Which is unfair, I know, as plenty of people prefer dating men/women of a specific race. But somehow when white guys only date asian girls, my gut instinct is that they are either fetishizing the exotic or the submissive.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/15 11:06 PM
4

I feel like if TRPers existed 100 years ago, they would advocate beating their wives. It's the ultimate dread game.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/15 11:02 PM
2

I didn't do things the way TRP/RPW advise, and I'm glad I didn't. I didn't know what the fuck I was doing when I was younger. I still don't, really, but I know a hell of a lot more now than I did then. As far as I can tell, 'The Wall' trpers love to talk about either doesn't exist, or hits much later than 30. I'm in my early 30s, single, and happy to be so. I still look pretty much the same as I did 10 years ago, but I have much more confidence, much more style and unlike 10 years ago, I know wh…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/15 10:53 PM
1

of course you would think this way. you are incapable of empathy, so you assume that other human beings are also incapable of feeling empathy for, and desiring to support, groups of people different from themselves.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/15 10:21 PM
1

I'd pick a farm animal over you any day. I also have standards.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/15 10:19 PM
4

The Red Pill isnt about being an asshole. The Red Pill is about setting and enforcing stamdards for yourself. Fat girls might think im an asshole for not talking to them. But I have too much dignity to lay side by side with a farm animal. I have standards. Yeah, it's not just fat girls who think you're an asshole for saying shit like this.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/15 04:19 PM
1

I can almost always tell if a guy is attracted to me by the way he looks at me when we first meet. AND I can tell if he's married/in an LTR or single, based on whether he looks away quickly and gets this sort of guilty look or whether he looks longer and gets a "she's a possibility" look in his eye. Obviously not a fool-proof method, you understand, but surprisingly accurate in my experience. Women are perceptive. Or at least, women older than 25 are perceptive. Younger women are idiots.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/15 02:05 PM
0

Attractiveness alone wouldn't do it. I've been hit on by very handsome men, i still get that 'deer in the headlights' feeling. But if, say, Johnny Depp were to hit on me? I imagine I wouldn't feel that way, but it's kind of a knee jerk response, so it's hard to be sure.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/15 01:17 AM
2

In a business relationship, it is expected that every individual is looking out for their own best interest only. It would be strange, for example, for an employee to offer to work for free, or for a customer to offer to pay more money, in a strictly business relationship. However in personal relationships, it is assumed that individuals are looking out for the best interest of the other person as well as their own best interest. For example, it is not unusual for a wife to work for her husband …
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/15 06:12 PM
0

yes.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/15 04:27 PM
1

lets say behavior B is trying to make your partner feel jealous by purposely flirting with other women in her presence. Behavior C can be spending a lot of time with a beautiful woman you work with because you know that it makes your wife uncomfortable and fearful that you are cheating on her.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/15 04:12 PM
1

As I have said elsewhere in this thread, it is impossible to have a real discussion about dread game because TRPers tend to believe that any behavior other than constantly prostrating yourself at your girlfriends feet and telling her how you don't deserve her and could never leave her constitutes dread game. This definition is meaningless because it encompasses so many different behaviors. So let's say behaviors A, B and C constitute the TRP definition of dread game. I say that I see nothing wro…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/15 04:08 PM
1

The whole point of this strategy, for men or women, is to either fix the relationship to your standards or end it so that each party can find a relationship that more closely fits their standards. I agree. And in both of these examples, the dissatisfied person is being open and honest about what they want, which is why I don't consider this abusive or manipulative behavior. If anal sex is really important to you, then you absolutely have the right to seek out a relationship that involves anal se…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/15 04:01 PM
2

Well, it's a good strategy if your end game is anal sex. Not such a good strategy if your end game is anal sex with her. As for your second example, that doesn't seem like emotional abuse to me, but then neither did demanding anal sex. A bad strategy if your goal is to maintain the relationship perhaps, but not abusive.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/15 03:52 PM
2

so instead of negotiating desire, you're encouraging men to try to conjure desire into existence using manipulation? Ethical issues aside, I just don't think this works. At best, you'll get your wife to sleep with you out of fear that you'll divorce her. But then TRP cares about results, not fee fees. Who cares if she sleeps with you because she actually wants to?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/15 03:46 PM
5

This is a terrible comparison. Romantic relationships follow completely different rules from employer/employee relationships. In a business relationship, things aren't personal. In a romantic relationship, it's ALL personal. This is like saying you want to "upgrade" to anal sex with your girlfriend, so you go to your girlfriend and you say "here is a list of other girls who will have anal sex with me, so unless you have anal sex with me, I'm going to leave you and go date one of these other girl…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/15 03:17 PM
4

because that shit would not fly with me or anyone I know amen to that. I laughed out loud when I read this, because if some guy did that to me (and he was being serious, not just kidding around) i would dump his ass immediately. Why would I want to date a guy who threatens to cheat on me when he doesn't like the way I'm behaving? edit: in fact, thinking back, I DID dump a guy for doing something like this. I had been dating this guy for a few weeks, we went out for lunch one day and he starts ta…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/15 03:01 PM
5

how about, instead of playing mind games, you actually sit down and talk to her about these things? Maybe she has no idea how unhappy you are. And honestly, if she DOES know how unhappy you are and doesn't care, why would you want to keep dating her?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/15 02:54 PM
8

I think what she was trying to get at is that you have to be 18 and stupid to fall for such blatant manipulation and mind games. Far from being emotionally crippled, she is now confident and secure enough to recognize that a partner who does this is not a partner you really want to have.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/15 02:53 PM
3

It's pretty much common knowledge that no girl wants to be with a guy who constantly tells her she's too good for him and he could never get another girl if she left him. As far as I can see, the average TRPer thinks that anything that isn't this = dread game. Which makes the term dread game completely meaningless because it encompasses too many behaviors. So guys, if you want to call it dread game than go ahead. But if you're honestly curious to know why many of us here have a problem with drea…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/15 01:18 PM
2

I can't speak for all women, but I know that I, and a lot of women I know, get really turned off by the direct approach. If a guy I don't know approaches me and it's clear he is interested, I get sort of a "deer in the headlights" kind of feeling and run away. I've even had the experience of getting freaked out because a guy I just met was clearly interested in me, then over the next weeks/months realizing that he was actually a really cool guy who I probably would have liked to date had his ini…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/15 12:59 PM
0

And why do you only apply your theories to women? I'm of the opinion that all men, women, and various other genders all start from the same point of irrationality. I know you like to think that men are logical and have the capability to lead, but this is not true of all men. I know you like to think that all women are evolutionarily driven harlots who will get rid of you at the first sign of weakness, but this is not true of all women. I agree with you here, 100%. I think a lot of the phenomena …
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/15 09:00 PM
2

It creates an odd scenario where they value women by how little they want to fuck them, but invest a lot of emotional energy into worrying about the secret sluts in their midst. This reminds me of a guy I dated once, who found it incredibly arousing when I pretended to be uninterested in sex. His biggest turn on was for me to 'file my nails and look bored' while he pawed at me. I asked him why, and he said he thought it was because all the hottest girls in high school were completely unintereste…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/15 03:06 PM
2

yeah, in my experience all that matching stuff online websites claim they do is pretty useless. You're basically meeting a stranger and hoping for the best.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/15 12:09 PM
-1

true, this is oversimplified. the real probability is closer to 26%. kids, don't use the formula I gave above on your SATs. I was making a point about rare events, not teaching a stats class. Please actually read your textbook.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/15 12:02 PM
4

oh yes, you're absolutely right. no one would disagree that if a woman has a baby at 40, the risk of down syndrome is a lot higher than if she has a baby at 24. But her risk is still only 1%. At 40! That means that a 40 year old woman has a 99% chance of NOT having a baby with down syndrome.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/15 11:41 AM
1

You've almost completely missed the point I was trying to get across here. Perhaps I didn't make my point very clearly. Oh well. I'm too tired right now to keep trying.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/15 02:00 AM
1

sorry it didn't work out for you. that sucks.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/15 01:52 AM
2

no, I don't think it is. Don't get me wrong, I'm a sucker for sweet stories about high school romance and all that. But I don't think that story is necessarily better than other people's; just different. Those people never know what it's like to be close and intimate with anyone besides their first lover. They only get to experience that heady joy of a new relationship once. There are so many joys and sorrows they never get to know, and opportunities for growth and understanding that are just ne…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/15 01:51 AM
2

ok the 67 year old did use donner eggs, that's true. but according to the article, "In the United States, between 1997 and 1999, 539 births were reported among mothers over age 50 (four per 100,000 births), with 194 being over 55.[4]...The oldest verified mother to conceive naturally (listed currently in the Guinness Records[8]) is Dawn Brooke (UK); she conceived a son at the age of 59 years in 1997 while taking oestrogen."
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/15 11:31 PM
1

using IVF maybe, but the oldest woman to give birth was almost 67 years old.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/15 11:26 PM
9

OMG dude, I don't care about you and your girlfriend. I'm talking in general.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/15 11:19 PM
1

I suspect that one way in which men and women are different is that women value platonic connections as much (or almost as much) as sexual connections, while men value sexual connections much much more. A woman who has a great time on a date with a guy she has no interest in sexually may call that date a "success" in the sense that she very much enjoyed herself. But that doesn't mean she wants to have sex with him.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/15 11:18 PM
4

I don't know anything about your current or past girlfriends. But I do know that there are big differences in maturity, experience, energy, tastes, goals and hobbies between 35 year olds and 23 year olds, which preclude successful long term relationships for many people.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/15 11:16 PM
7

I don't think there's anything wrong with your relationship. But most 35 year olds would have a pretty hard time connecting romantically with a 23 year old, at least long term.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/15 11:14 PM
6

It is debatable if the slight increase in problems for older fathers offsets the many financial benefits older and more established fathers provide. I could say the exact same thing, only replace "fathers" with "mothers." My mom has always said having kids in her 30s was the best decision she ever made. Older women are more mature and more financially stable. A strong argument can therefore be made that they make better mothers.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/15 11:11 PM
6

From a purely pragmatic perspective, there is no downside. If you are choosing a partner for purely pragmatic reasons then that makes a lot of sense. But most people choose a partner because they fall in love, or want an emotional connection, or care about compatibility. You may find yourself at 35 falling in love with a 34 year old woman and wanting children. And the good news is, you can have them! The chance that you and your wife will have a baby with down syndrome is only 0.2%.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/15 11:06 PM
7

Of course the risks are analogous. The potential costs are not analogous, so you are less willing to take the same risk. This is a personal decision for you and your wife. There is always a risk of down syndrome, no matter what age the woman is. The lowest possible risk is .07% (among women 20-24). The highest is 4% (among women 45 and older). How low does the risk have to be for you to chance it?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/15 10:56 PM
8

not to epidemiologists, who are the ones doing these studies.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/15 10:53 PM
6

1/350 = .3% chance. How many times have you played craps? Probably a lot. How many times do women give birth? In this day and age, usually not so many times. If the probabilities of multiple rare events occurring are independent, then the probability of the event happening over time is approximately the sum of the individual probabilities. In other worlds, if the probability of throwing a 7 twice in a row in craps is .003, then the probability of throwing a 7 twice in a row in 100 throws is appr…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/15 10:46 PM
10

It's not deceptive, it's just a highly unlikely outcome. The goal of these studies is to try to understand the causes of Autism, not to achieve any sort of social agenda. A 100% increase in risk may not result in a large additive difference in the number of cases, but it gives us clues about the possible underlying causes of the disease. I think it's been getting press for several reasons: first, because it's new. Large scale studies of Autism haven't been around before. Second, because after de…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/15 10:43 PM
12

Of course it's a small number. Autism is a rare disease. That's why we deal with multiplicative differences (e.g., X times the risk) rather than additive differences (e.g., 8 cases vs. 5). This is true in all studies of rare outcomes. Everyone knows down syndrome increases dramatically with maternal age, but still, only 1 in 350 babies born to 35 year old women has down syndrome. This means that your absolute risk for having a baby with down syndrome when you're 35 is 0.3%. Which is tiny. But co…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/15 10:29 PM
4

well I won't be able to prove it until it happens again, that's true. But I feel extremely confident that my ability to bond is as good now as it ever has been. Also, by your logic, no second marriage can ever be happy because having fallen in love once precludes one from falling in love a second time. This just seems incredibly naive.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/15 10:07 PM
1

Unfortunately no. The relationship ended, for reasons I can't get into without revealing personal information. I was truly heartbroken, and it took me a really long time to get over it. I'd say it was two years before I even entertained the possibility of starting a new relationship. But time really does heal. I can remember the exact spot I was standing on the moment I finally felt like I could begin to move on. And I have moved on. I used to think about him constantly, and now I rarely do. It …
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/15 09:32 PM
4

/u/ProtoPill, you've never been with anyone but your wife. How can you know whether you could have had the same intensity of physical and emotional connection with another woman, after having slept with several others? Personally, I had the experience of falling madly, madly in love with a man when I was 28 years old. Both of us had had more than 5 previous sexual partners. Our connection, mental and physical, was more powerful and intoxicating than anything I ever experienced before or since. I…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/15 09:14 PM
2

Sex first, then pair bonding. Got it. I still think sexual desire alone doesn't indicate whether a couple have pair bonded. You can be sexually attracted to a guy you hooked up with once, but still think he's an asshole and not want to date him. If anything, you'd keep him as a fwb to use during the lean times.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/15 08:50 PM
4

I completely disagree. So much more goes into pair bonding than just sexual attraction. I want to jump Ryan Gosling's bones every time I see a picture or movie of him, but that doesn't mean we've pair bonded. I think a much better indicator of pair bonding is the extent to which partners are affectionate with one another. If they smile at each other, laugh with each other, touch each other, appear concerned about each other, that indicates pair bonding, at least to me.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/15 08:41 PM
1

to know the specific number who change their minds? Yes. I was just pointing out that in order to prove that the "relationship effect" does not represent a meaningful difference in attractiveness, only 31% have to change their minds, not all 90%
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/15 05:53 PM
1

researchers at Oklahoma State University showed them a picture of a guy who was their "perfect match" and asked if they would date him. When the women were told that their perfect match was single, 59 percent of them said they'd go out with him. When they were told he had a girlfriend, 90 percent said they would. The only difference between the two groups is that group A were told their perfect guy was single, group B were told he was in a relationship. What questions should be changed?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/15 05:45 PM
1

Because 59% of the girls said they would go on a date with the guy when he was depicted as single, and 90% said they would go on a date with him when he was depicted as in a relationship. So the difference between the two is the "relationship effect."
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/15 05:24 PM
1

not all of them have to to prove my point. Only 90-59 = 31%
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/15 05:16 PM
1

what's the point of being considered more attractive if, when a girl actually thinks about it, she doesn't want to date you after all?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/15 05:12 PM
1

the TRP argument, at least as I understand it, is that women are more attracted to men who are currently dating other women because it demonstrates that they are attractive to other women. I'm saying that this study doesn't necessarily support that theory, as there is an alternate explanation for the results
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/15 05:07 PM
1

I think there's an alternate explanation here - if he's single, then she is ACTUALLY committing to a date. If he has a girlfriend, then it's all hypothetical. It's a lot easier to say yes to a hypothetical date than a real one. I often have thoughts about my friends's boyfriends like "wow what a cute, nice guy. Wouldn't it be great if I could date him." But the few times I thought more seriously about it, I've realized that I probably wouldn't date him if dating him were actually a real possibil…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/15 05:00 PM
1

yep, this is why I prefer tinder to OKC.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/15 01:06 PM
1

you've never had a nice time with a girl, but just didn't think there was any chemistry?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/15 01:01 PM
2

online dating is basically a twist on blind dating where people get to pick the stranger they're being set up with. Yes! This is so true. I've seen some insane tantrums from men just because I said I wasn't interested to begging and pleading for a date or 2nd date. Yep. In my experience, many guys take it very well and are very mature about it. Some guys act a little butthurt, but don't give you a hard time. Then there are those guys that throw a hissy fit, call you names and insult you. And the…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/15 12:56 PM
1

This is not strictly true. Evolution is, as you pointed out, blind. We evolved (genetically) the way we did because it increased survival in the world our ancestors lived in. And in that world, there was no birth control, so seeking sex as much as possible (for the proximal outcome of pleasure) resulted in the distal outcome (babies). If we evolved, as you claim, to desire babies as much as sexual pleasure, then how can you explain the fact that everyone isn't trying to have babies all the time,…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/15 12:40 PM
1

Don't call me sweetheart, sweetheart.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/15 09:24 PM
1

It's only one study, but it's the only study we have. Hence my lack of belief. hat being said, I'm even more convinced, because if those factors play into it, it still means there's a correlation, because those factors exist in the general population. What that means is that a past history of abuse my correlate with mental illness which, not surprisingly, correlates with divorce. If a promiscuous woman does not have a past history of abuse or mental illness, she may be just as likely to stay mar…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/15 08:24 PM
1

I've only seen one actual study that said anything like this. If you're interested, you can read my review of that study here
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/15 07:26 PM
1

I highly doubt that. The people most likely to divorce are folks who marry when they're really young, like 18. Being older when you marry, and being better educated, are both factors that make you less likely to divorce and also more likely to have had previous partners (unless you're religious) The problem with the "fewer partners = less likely to divorce" statistic is that it is most likely confounded by religiosity and traditionalism. The folks who believe premarital sex is bad tend to be the…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/15 03:17 PM
2

What /u/wombatinaburrow said. Or maybe they can't do any better, and bad sex is better than no sex. Or maybe they don't know what they're missing...suddenly the TRP preference for low n count makes sense!
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/15 03:13 PM
1

"You can't keep inserting sex coins and hope for commitment." yep. this is the female version of the "put in nice guy coins and get sex" trap. I've seen a lot of girls do this, especially when they are young and immature and inexperienced. They don't need RPW, they need to be told, and to accept, that having sex with a man does not necessarily improve your chances of, or entitle you to, a relationship.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/15 03:06 PM
1

One thing I don't understand is why red pill men are so convinced that having had sex with multiple men means women are likely to cheat. Past behavior indicates future behavior, so it seems to me that the real predictor of whether a woman will cheat is whether she has cheated in the past, not whether she has slept with other men. If a woman has dated 10 men and didn't cheat on any of them, what makes you think she's going to cheat on you? edit: for the record, i have never cheated, but the one t…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/15 03:01 PM
1

Speaking for myself, me personally and no one else? I have always been in monogamous relationships, and I would certainly insist on being in a monogamous relationship in the beginning. I feel it is important, for me personally, as part of building trust and love and commitment in a relationship. But once those things have been built? I've never been in a relationship longer than about 18 months, so it's hard for me to speculate how I will feel 5, 7, 10 years into a marriage. But I suspect that s…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/15 02:53 PM
1

yeah, that's pretty obvious. But the book itself is not an argument on why modern America should cease being monogamous. It simply questions the standard narrative that we evolved, as a species, to engage exclusively in monogamy. Which, when you think about it, never made sense to being with. If we evolved to be monogamous, why are so few people actually monogamous?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/15 02:07 PM
1

it's "Sex at Dawn" not "Sex at Now." The books describes theories regarding the mating habits of prehistoric humans. It's not a manifesto about doing away with monogamy.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/15 01:52 PM
5

Saying no to LTRing a slut is not shaming. you're claiming women who have had multiple past partners are automatically not good enough for you to have a relationship with, regardless of whether they are disease free or have no history of cheating. what is this if not slut shaming?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/15 01:15 PM
2

I disagree. Women definitely participate in slut shaming, but so do men.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/15 01:12 PM
3

well, if in your view, all remotely attractive women are doing this then I guess your choices are date an unattractive woman or don't date.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/15 03:42 AM
5

TRP slut shames, and they are men.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/15 03:12 AM
1

a new sex partner every month? I mean sure, it's definitely possible, if that's what you want. But I don't think most women want that. Partner count goes up as you age. The longer you stay single, the more sexual partners you will rack up. I think those averages are skewed a bit because lots of people marry young, so of course their partner counts will be lower. I think if you look at number of past partners among non/never married people by age group, you will see a different picture.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/15 03:11 AM
2

yep, makes sense. although for the record, i don't think 2 sexual partners at 24 is anything to feel bad about.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/15 03:08 AM
0

seriously, how have you not been banned yet?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/15 09:59 PM
9

I know, right? My first impulse after having a mind-blowing orgasm is to want to give my partner an equally mind-blowing orgasm :)
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/15 09:46 PM
17

I think BP men make better lovers. In my experience, the best lovers are men who want to please me. Those who listen to what I want and are open to fulfilling my desires, no matter what they might be. Any guy can shove his cock up a girl's vagina, but the guys who are sensitive to her pleasure are the ones who make her cum. the worst sexual experiences I have had in my life has always been with dominant, 'alpha'-like men who throw me down, fuck me, and leave without caring whether or not I enjoy…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/15 09:25 PM
7

right, because fulfilling one's sexual urges with someone one doesn't want a committed relationship with is only ok if you're a man.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/15 09:01 PM
7

i don't entirely disagree with you, although I think it would be more accurate to say "if a woman is anywhere near average looking and likes sex, it's a distinct possibility that she has FWBs on the side." The real question is, why does this matter? If they are FWB and not boyfriends/husbands, it's because she doesn't want them as a boyfriend/husband. In all likelihood, she is using these guys to fulfill her sexual urges, but still in the market for a guy she wants to be in a committed relations…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/15 08:55 PM
1

I've heard the phrase "slutty flings/virgin rings" bandied about.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/15 08:32 PM
0

Woman: If you're under 6 foot don't even talk to me. Women who talk/act like this are considered arrogant and shallow. This isn't perfectly acceptable at all.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/15 08:18 PM
11

No, I don't agree with the statement that "literally every girl has had sex with dozens upon dozens of men. WE LIE." For starters, I'm a girl, and I have not had sex with dozens and dozens of men, nor do I know any girl who has had sex with dozens and dozens of men (that's an awful lot of men). I also don't lie about my partner count. I am what I am, and I've done what I've done; I own it and make no apologies. If that's not ok with you, you have every right to leave. That being said, I can unde…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/15 08:06 PM
1

it's not dark triad in our society, because we have a patrilineal inheritance system and a nuclear family structure. In other societies that have different systems of inheritance and family structure, such behavior might be considered dark triad.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/15 07:03 PM
1

I have, although I have to admit that after the first third, I started to just skim through because I was tired of the blatant lies. I applaud your efforts! I know how hard it is to read books that are not in line with your world view. With that in mind, I'll go give The Red Queen a try, although from the reviews it seems like just a pop science compilation of evo psych theories, most of which I'm already pretty familiar with.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/15 06:57 PM
1

This is a really great point. In my experience, TRP tends to play up the perceived importance of female virginity while simultaneously downplaying (or not even acknowledging) the perceived importance of male virginity. This is why I've always been baffled by their conviction that they can sleep around for 15 years and then find a young virgin girl willing to marry them. Most young virgin girls are looking for young virgin boys, because when virginity is valued it is usually valued in both men an…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/15 06:47 PM
1

that's a really good point.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/15 06:43 PM
1

but why did the church develop these views? was it just random, or does it have it's roots in something psychological/biological?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/15 01:09 PM
1

of course it's a theory. all of these are theories.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/15 01:04 PM
3

If you gave a man in this tribal society the option to fuck a girl while she's a virgin vs after she gets fucked by another man, you don't think he'll have a preference? yep, pretty much.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/15 12:08 AM
2

out of curiosity, what do you believe led to this prejudice?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/15 12:07 AM
6

This is from the Natural History Museum Website "All physical evidence of the Neanderthals disappears around 30,000 years ago. Modern humans reached Europe around 15,000 years earlier and it has been suggested that superior brains, language and skills allowed them to prevail over the Neanderthals. However, this may underestimate our relative. An alternative view suggests that Ice Age climate fluctuations affected European flora and fauna, causing the disappearance of familiar plants and animals,…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/06/15 11:07 PM
4

Wow, really nice overview. And way less critical than I was expecting, given your comments. Most of these critiques are more measured than they are critical, although of course one or two people just absolutely hated it, as is to be expected. The two most common criticisms of Sex at Dawn are that the authors were too firm in their conclusions based on the available evidence, and that the evidence they presented was a bit cherry picked. In other words, the evidence was not so much poor quality as…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/06/15 11:00 PM
1

oh, oops, I meant to put that comment in response to a different comment on here. Sorry, /u/byebyebluepill.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/06/15 10:29 PM
2

yeah, in theory a guy like that (one who can appear selfless while acting selflessly) would do well. Might explain the persistence of dark triad traits in the population alongside pro-social traits like altruism.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/06/15 10:25 PM
2

I would just like to point out that prejudice and the church are both social factors, so you are agreeing with my conclusion that the reasons behind male desire for virginity in females are social rather than biological.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/06/15 10:22 PM
3

I think Kill_Your_Ego is the bad kind of crazy, though.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/06/15 10:21 PM
0

oh, cool. thanks!
/r/PurplePillDebate25/06/15 08:56 PM
4

No I haven't read the criticisms, but I'd like to check them out. Can I trouble you for a link?
/r/PurplePillDebate25/06/15 08:52 PM
2

If no one else cares but he does and he isn't an idiot about it, he'll proportionally have more offspring that are his in the tribe's batch of children. And if they carry on his tendency to mate guard, it's going to spread. The needs of the individual are always competing with the needs of the group. In this case, you have two competing forces at play: the need for the individual male to propagate his own genes, which selects for selfishness and exploitation of others, and the need of the group …
/r/PurplePillDebate25/06/15 08:50 PM
2

First of all, have you read Sex at Dawn? All theories about prehistoric cultures are at least partially based on conjecture. I (unlike TRP) am not claiming either a) this is the absolute proven truth or b) this should influence your or anyone elses behavior in a modern society. The existence of theories like the ones presented in Sex at Dawn are part of why I think TRPs obsession with all that evo psych stuff is so silly. Don't they know there are other theories out there? Theories that are, in …
/r/PurplePillDebate25/06/15 08:41 PM
5

I wanted a low number girl since I was a kid. I was a real romantic when no one around me was. Not my parents, not my friends who didn't care if they got sluts, no one really. And there's no possible way, in your mind, that this could be at all related to culture? That your attitudes were influenced by your family and the society in which you were raised?
/r/PurplePillDebate25/06/15 08:02 PM
5

Part of what makes humans such a viable species is our ability to adjust to changing circumstances. The ability to adapt, not necessarily genetically but mentally, socially and culturally, to different environments is a large part of why we have been so successful. If that change could only come about through genetic evolution, a process that takes thousands or millions of years, we would have gone the way of the Neanderthals. They died out because they couldn't adapt their behaviors fast enough…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/06/15 07:57 PM
2

Jesus. Where in my OP did I opine how you, personally, should feel you should invest your resources?
/r/PurplePillDebate25/06/15 07:50 PM
3

check this out, I don't know if it's 100% scientific (I'm not a nutritionist), but it seems in line with what I've read on the subject. http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/07/grains-and-human-evolution.html Basically, wheat was a rather recent addition to our diets (as in, within the past 12,000 years or so), which explains why many people still have a hard time digesting it. In addition, over the past 100 years, the gluten content in wheat has increased exponentially as a result of genet…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/06/15 07:39 PM
4

I've had TRPers inquire as to why I find TRP so offensive. "But it's just about self improvement!" They say. "What's wrong with self improvement?" They say. You, Atlas, are clearly more in touch with reality.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/06/15 07:32 PM
3

idk, are you?
/r/PurplePillDebate25/06/15 07:31 PM
1

no one cares about sluts when you want to have fun And you guys wonder why women find TRP offensive.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/06/15 07:27 PM
4

That is one theory, yes. Although recent trends in China suggest that the mechanism behind lactose tolerance might actually be epigenetic, rather than genetic.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/06/15 07:26 PM
6

Those that study evolution distinguish between 'proximal' and 'distal' outcomes. Proximal outcomes are short term consequences, and distal outcomes are long term outcomes. The act of having sex has two outcomes: pleasure, which is a proximal outcome meaning that it occurs immediately, and procreation, with is a distal outcome meaning it occurs some of the time, months after the sexual act itself has been completed. There is a strong argument to be made that humans evolved biologically to activel…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/06/15 07:09 PM
1

this type of thinking seems to be present for most of human history. Most recorded history, yes. But humans have existed for around 200,000 years, and only about 6,000-10,000 of those years are part of recorded history. The bulk of our biological evolution as a species occurred before or during this 190,000 year period. One thing you need to keep in mind is that the entire concept of inheritance is predicated on the ownership of property. If there is no property, there is nothing to inherit. The…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/06/15 06:09 PM
0

If 99% of all people live in societies that are monogamous and 1% of all people live in some obscure tribes where sleeping around is the gold standard for women, this tells us something about what's more likely to be the state of nature. Seems to me like those obscure tribes are the ones living closer to the state of nature. Contemplate how close you are to the state of nature as you type on your laptop in your air-conditioned apartment. Also, if polygamy for both genders was the norm, why do me…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/06/15 03:06 PM
5

...put together by a guy who is poly himself. Honni soit qui mal y pense. And the theories about monogamy being the natural state of humans were put together by monogamous people. What's your point? Count the societies that (a) are larger than tribe-size and (b) don't follow modern value systems that are indifferent towards women sleeping around. What does the size of the society matter? The fact that they exist implies that these differences are due to socialization, not biology. All humans sha…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/06/15 02:03 PM
3

what makes you think that's biological? Theories exist that early humans were polyamorous and engaged in group sex. It is theorized that the shape of the head of the penis evolved the way it did so that it could create suction to remove the last guy's sperm from a girls vagina. All this competition stuff exists, but it is social, not biological. Many societies value virginity in a woman, but many do not. The ones that do tend to be structured, socially, around patrilineal inheritance. When inher…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/06/15 01:48 PM
1

I think female virgins are desirable only because society fetishizes female virginity. It is seen as a marker of purity and innocence and being 'untarnished,' all of which are considered desirable traits in females for social rather than biological reasons. If we were socialized to value these traits in men and connect male virginity with these traits, then male virginity would also be fetishized.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/06/15 12:17 PM
-1

Trpers only pay attention to above average women. To them, below average women are worthless and therefore not worthy of note.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/15 11:23 PM
2

Bullshit
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/15 11:10 PM
3

I read the discussion you two had. She's not really a troll, it was a poor choice of words. All this 'gotcha' preening you're doing is juvenile.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/15 11:04 PM
2

I read the post where HSW 'admitted' to being a troll. It was a poor choice of words, and not what she actually meant. And while we're on the subjects of banable offenses, personal attacks are also against the rules. If this isn't a personal attack I don't know what is, so maybe it's you who should be banned.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/15 10:56 PM
3

Wow, you are an asshole. And it's creepy that you know so much about her. This seems very stalker-ish.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/15 10:25 PM
8

Are you suggesting that the way we did things for hundreds and thousands of years was wrong? Yes, that's exactly what we are suggesting. You know what else was done for hundreds and thousands of years? Murder, rape in all it's many forms (spousal rape, rape of slaves, rape of servants, rape of peasants) and cruel and unusual punishments like torture. People used to do all sorts of fucked up shit. One of the fucked up things they used to do was allowing grown men to marry/sleep with very young gi…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/15 08:57 PM
5

why is it so hard to believe that girls who date assholes don't actually like the fact that they are assholes, they like other things about them? Seriously, you guys see a girl dating a douchebag heart surgeon with a hot body and you think "omg, girls dig douchebags!" No, idiot, they dig hot, successful guys. This guy can get away with being a douchebag (with some women) because he has these other qualities.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/15 06:35 PM
2

sorry to hear that, HSW :(.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/15 05:14 PM
8

yeah, they aren't pining for the guy from 50 shades of grey because other girls want him. They pine for him because he's fucking hot. Correlation does not equal causation.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/15 05:03 PM
4

This is exactly the kind of shit that makes me not take you guys seriously. translation: Your story is not believable. You are exaggerating. What you are describing never ever happens, not ever. No, I don't dispute that the factual elements in this story are true. I'm sure he was unsuccessful with girls and felt lied to. What I don't take seriously is his whiney attitude and his persecution complex. No. We just wanted to know the same rules everyone else was playing by. So, in your mind, there i…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/15 04:59 PM
7

I feel sympathy for you when I hear these stories because you have suffered. But at the same time, I find it hard to take you seriously. You seem to think dating and sexual interactions are supposed to be easy, but because society lied to you, they are hard. You think you're somehow different from the majority of people, but you're not. EVERYONE has trouble with dating and the opposite sex, particularly when they're young (as most TRPers are). Relationships and sexual encounters are confusing an…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/15 02:10 PM
1

Seconded. Great post, Petticoat!
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/15 01:51 PM
3

me too. I go there whenever PPD gets too red-heavy and I start to question the sanity of the human race.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/15 01:03 PM
3

I can't do this anymore. Make a thread, call in some other purple pill/blue pill person. I'm tapping out.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 09:35 PM
1

me too.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 07:55 PM
1

if only...
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 07:54 PM
1

I see things settling at around 16 for close in age partners (i.e., < 21) and 18 for all other partners. This was the law in the state I grew up in, and I always felt it made a lot of sense. I suppose only time will tell.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 07:53 PM
1

SirNemisis claimed that protopill and his wife statutorily raped each other because they were highschool sweet hearts. That's how this whole discussion got started. I assumed you were jumping in to support him, I'm sorry.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 07:51 PM
3

Ew. I need another shower.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 07:45 PM
1

Once upon a time blacks were seen as creepy just for staring at women. Heck, they still are, as evidenced by the complaints about stare-rapes and street-harassment. You're on the wrong side of history here. Society has moved away from allowing older men to have sex with young girls, not towards it.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 07:43 PM
1

this isn't just texas. Some states don't have them, but most do, because it is generally recognized that the purpose of statutory rape laws is not to prosecute teenagers for having sex with other teenagers. Also, most of the cases which were being prosecuted were ones in which the boy was over the age of consent, albeit barely, and the girl was younger. This does not apply to partners where both are under the age of consent. If you can find even one case of a boy being brought up on statutory ra…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 07:39 PM
1

I feel so sorry for your future wife right now.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 07:35 PM
1

"Laws vary[9] in their definitions of statutory rape. It is generally intended to punish heinous cases of an adult taking sexual advantage of a minor. Thus, many jurisdictions prohibit allowing a juvenile to be tried as an adult under this law (most jurisdictions have separate provisions for child molestation or forcible rape which can be applied to juveniles and for which a minor can be tried as an adult). Some jurisdictions also specify a minimum difference in age in order for the offense to b…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 07:31 PM
1

False. Not all states have close in age exceptions. Including my own state, California. This is why you check the laws instead of going on about how it is creepy. Realistically, if two 17 year olds have sex, neither of them is going to get charged with any crime. It may be the letter of the law in CA, but it is seldom, if ever, enforced because it is understood that the purpose of statutory rape laws is to prevent adults from taking sexual advantage of minors. Yes. Hence why they make you marry …
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 07:29 PM
1

"Laws vary[9] in their definitions of statutory rape. It is generally intended to punish heinous cases of an adult taking sexual advantage of a minor. Thus, many jurisdictions prohibit allowing a juvenile to be tried as an adult under this law (most jurisdictions have separate provisions for child molestation or forcible rape which can be applied to juveniles and for which a minor can be tried as an adult). Some jurisdictions also specify a minimum difference in age in order for the offense to b…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 07:24 PM
1

can you point me to the line that says this? cause all I got was "refers to adults engaging in sex with minors under the age of consent"
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 07:17 PM
1

So, you're basically describing going through an arranged marriage in order to circumvent age-of-consent laws and societal standards of propriety in order to gain sexual access to a very young girl. Yes. Ew. A thousand times ew.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 07:15 PM
1

Knowing your state's age of consent laws in order to make sure you don't accidentally statutorily rape someone is not the same thing as trying to figure out how young of a girl you can target without breaking the law. Age of consent in America ranges from 16-18. That's not really all that different from going after 13-14 year olds. A 16 year old girl was 14 two years ago.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 07:13 PM
1

it's not statutory rape if they are the same age. Statutory rape laws exist to prevent OLDER PEOPLE (thats you) from taking sexual advantage of adolescent boys and girls. Targeting underage teenagers for sex isn't just a run-of-the-mill TRP questionable dating practice. It is illegal, as in against the law. These kids cannot consent, which makes you a would-be rapist. And you wonder why I think that's gross?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 07:06 PM
1

Again, ew.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 07:02 PM
2

Why? Because you're a creepy predator, that's why. If you're going after girls so young that checking your state's age of consent laws is a must, you're a creepy predator. What do you do, stand outside of high schools and try to catch them alone? Ewwwwww.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 06:48 PM
1

not if you ARE in your late teens.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 06:38 PM
-1

oh ew. I feel like I need a shower after reading this.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 01:28 PM
1

I might agree with you, to a point, if TRP didn't have such an absurd concept of how many partners constitutes a slut. Meaning, I can see a partner count of 50 at age 24 being a pretty good heuristic that something is up with a woman psychologically, but a partner count of 10? 20 even, if she's in her 30s? Just means she dates. Also, being around the block a few times can absolutely have a positive effect on a woman, provided she's doing it because she actually wants to have sex, and not for oth…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 12:21 PM
1

Let's not turn this thread into a debate about communism and class warfare. Also, you obviously didn't get my reference to the term "rule of thumb." As explained in the classic movie "The Boondock Saints", the term "rule of thumb" comes from the rule that men were only allowed to beat their wives with a switch that was less than or equal to the size of their thumbs. I was making a reference to domestic violence.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 03:40 AM
1

What era in human history have women been put to physical labor, punished with violence for not meeting standards, and lived in subhuman situations? Every era before the modern era. Examples: physical labor: they were forced into labor in the home. They had to cook and clean and do laundry and all that stuff. Is it as physically taxing as coal mining? probably not. But you can't say women were never forced to do any form of physical labor. punished with violence for not meeting standards? Um, tr…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 03:11 AM
1

both are scenarios in which one group had power over another. Obviously they aren't identical (if they were, the analogy would not be useful).
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 02:51 AM
1

ok, but you see, this is a little different from what Cis was saying. Cis was claiming that the women's suffrage movement was offered the right to vote, and declined because they didn't want to be drafted. What you're saying is that a segment of women chose not to support the women's suffrage movement because it would lead to them being drafted. The later I believe.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 02:30 AM
1

thanks. yeah this is really shitty. But I don't see how it relates to CisWhiteMaelstrom's contention that women were offered the vote but refused it in order to avoid the draft.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 02:22 AM
1

I agree that benevolent sexism is a part of some branches of third-wave feminism, and I think this is a huge problem. Personally, I disagree with benevolent sexism and with feminists who promote it. but the statement "feminism is all about what the world can do for WAMCPs* feminism can not nor will it ever in any real sense address minority issues." is simply inaccurate. The central themes of third wave feminism are race, social class, transgender issues and sexual liberation.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 02:21 AM
1

I hate to do this, but please clean up the grammar in your post a bit. I don't want to misinterpret your point before responding to it.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 02:12 AM
1

this is one way in which third-wave feminism was an improvement over the other two waves. Third wave feminism focused a lot on non-white women, so it's trying to address this gap.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 02:09 AM
1

no, a good response would be "here is a link to work by Richard Dawkins that specifically backs up what I am saying." Not "read Richard Dawkins" not "email Richard Dawkins" but "read THIS paragraph in THIS book which pertains exactly to the point I was trying to make."
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 02:08 AM
1

that could very well be, but see, I can't respond to those sources until I know what they are. What I suspect is that she is citing one instance in one country at one time that in no way invalidates the struggle of first-wave feminists to obtain suffrage.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 02:06 AM
1

no kidding. that's unfortunate.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 02:05 AM
1

I don't know about the kkk, but the connection with the christian temperance movement is true I believe.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 02:00 AM
1

That's like you saying "show me evidence that evolution is real" and me saying "go email Richard Dawkins." You made the argument - the burden is on you to back it up.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 01:58 AM
0

ok, if she's had her work published, send me the actual article where she shows that what you're saying is true. Then I will read it, find HER source, and see if it's credible.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 01:55 AM
6

that I believe. And it's very sweet :). But you were also in high school, no? I'm talking about RPers who spin plates for 15 years before they decide to settle down. Where are they meeting these beautiful virginal young girls they claim they can get?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 01:52 AM
1

This isn't a credible source, it's just a youtube video of some chick who agrees with you talking in her kitchen.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 01:51 AM
1

this is not my understanding. Cite your source, please.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 01:38 AM
2

First wave feminism was women trying to get the right to vote. If you think trying to get the right to vote is toxic, then you're the extremist.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 01:34 AM
0

either contribute to the discussion or GTFO, Cis. This is my thread.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 12:56 AM
2

the problem with this is that most young men haven't developed many of the attributes (i.e., maturity, responsibility) a woman will look for in a guy when she's ready to settle down. Sure, she could date an older guy, but most girls prefer to date men their own age.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 12:32 AM
1

I think you have a pretty warped view of reality, Kill_Your_Ego. Of course women are physically capable of going out and getting pregnant, but 99.9% of women don't do this because they don't want to be single mothers. Even the women who do do this do it as a last resort, if they are unable to find a partner before their biological clock runs out. Second of all, I don't think any feminist ever said feminism would bring about heaven on earth. What they said was they could bring about a more just s…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/15 11:57 PM
2

I think so, yes. First of all, most young women aren't looking for a guy to settle down with, they are looking for a guy to have fun with. When they get older and start looking for a serious partner, they're going to be a lot pickier because the stakes are higher. My standards for a guy I'd have a fling with are a hell of a lot lower than my standards for a guy I'd marry. Second of all, I think a lot of girls are insecure and unsure of themselves when they are young. Girls are taught to be subse…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/15 11:45 PM
1

how so? most women I know want kids more than their boyfriends/husbands.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/15 11:33 PM
0

just out of curiosity, where do guys like you meet these beautiful, virginal young girls?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/15 11:33 PM
12

this makes total sense if you view women as objects. an object typically depreciates in value if it is used a lot.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/15 11:27 PM
6

Partner count alone doesn't indicate damage. The important thing is why she had sex with so many men. If she did it because she has a personality disorder and a weak self-concept and was seeking validation, yeah she's probably damaged. but the high partner count is a symptom of the damage, not the cause.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/15 11:23 PM
2

able to have non retard babies older paternal age is a risk factor for autism, you know.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/15 11:13 PM
3

Surgery? anemia? these are not common problems. And they are sure as hell not more common now than they used to be. In fact, according to the CDC, infertility rates are falling. Most women who are infertile don't actually discover they are infertile until they try to get pregnant. So it's hard to have that as a criteria for dating.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/15 11:12 PM
3

You might be right, but this hasn't been my personal experience. I knew a lot of guys, particularly in high-school and college, who were only interested in girls way out of their league. Not surprisingly, they did not have much success in the dating world, because they refused to be realistic about the type of girl they could get. Some of these guys became more realistic with time, others turned to PUA in an effort to learn tricks to get the hot girls. To my knowledge, that didn't really work fo…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/15 09:08 PM
2

As long as there is physical attraction and they get along, most dudes are happy with that. Women on the other hand have a fucking huge wish list. I think you're basing this opinion on a skewed sample. Most guys (not all) want to date really hot girls. They want the blond cheerleader with the perfect body and great tits. And those girls have HUGE lists because they CAN. Guys, even unattractive guys, tend to ignore unattractive girls. I bet if you asked an average girl, her list of what she's loo…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/15 08:43 PM
5

is fertile I call bullshit on this. I don't think most guys look at a girl and think to themselves "her physical attributes suggest she may have polycistic ovarian syndrome. I'd better stay away, as her fertility is in question." If you mean young, just say so.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/15 08:36 PM
1

I like to split. I like it best when my date offers to pay the full tab, but then agrees when I suggest we split it. The fact that he offered tells me he's a nice guy and not cheap, but the fact that he didn't push it tells me he respects me and isn't trying to achieve some sort of dominance over me.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/15 08:32 PM
3

Give them what they want. but, according to TRP, having sex with men decreases a woman's value, and, if she does it with too many men (more than 5 or so), makes her completely worthless. You are demanding that women do something that, based on your philosophy, decreases their own value. Why should they do this?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/06/15 12:10 AM
3

Thanks capt, this is helpful. Me personally, I'd go for ottermode, athletic or built fat. I know lots of girls who go for skinny guys, though.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/06/15 09:23 PM
-3

not being attracted to someone is not the same thing as thinking they are ugly. I suspect attraction for women is more personal than for men - a girl might recognize a man's objective attraction but not actually be attracted to him, while men are attracted to any woman who is objectively attractive.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/06/15 12:01 PM
-4

It might be that a woman can "grow to love" a man. She does NOT "grow into attraction" or "grow to become attracted". She either is attracted or she's not. This is patently false. I've grown to become attracted to plenty of guys. Some guys I'll know for months and then one day bam! all of a sudden, I find them attractive.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/06/15 11:59 AM
12

I think this is an example of benevolent sexism. Women are often seen as delicate creatures who need to be protected, while men are viewed as autonomous agents capable of making their own decisions. Personally, I think the key issue is not whether she was drunk but whether she consented. Consent when drunk is still consent. If she's passed out, no consent. If she's in and out of consciousness, no consent. If she's lying on her back singing the lyrics to "Somewhere Over The Rainbow" and doesn't m…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 11:53 PM
1

I'm on board with this.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 09:14 PM
1

no, other way around: I suspect that the fact that he is happily married despite being TRP is related to the fact that unlike most TRPers, he doesn't hate women.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 09:03 PM
1

why would I say bad stuff about greasypole for no reason? All I said was that he doesn't hate women, and I suspect that has something to do with the fact that he appears to have a good TRP marriage. It doesn't mean I don't disagree with any of his philosophical arguments.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 08:36 PM
1

my perception is that greasypole is just really unusual. an exception to the rule that TRPers are misogynistic.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 08:31 PM
1

...no idea. We could ask him, but he'll probably just deny that TRP is misogynistic.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 08:20 PM
1

Nope. He doesn't find out she's been cheating until they've been in a relationship for 3 months. She breaks up with him. He kills himself. Wow. Did not expect that ending. Really sorry to hear about your friend. But I'm not exactly sure what I'm supposed to be taking from this story. That incels exist? I don't doubt that, I just consider them a fringe group. That they have it hard? Sure, I believe that. But lots of people have it hard. That TRP is the solution to their problems? Sounds to me lik…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 08:18 PM
1

It does if you did it in order to increase your chances of getting sex, in my book at least.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 08:00 PM
2

In this case you ascribe some special quality to greasypole and his wife to explain away how their trp relationship works. Well for starters, unlike most TRPers greasypole doesn't hate women, so I'm sure that's probably a huge part of it.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 07:59 PM
1

The issue here isn't with whether or not women want to be 'taken' by a strong man. If they do, then they are getting what they want, everyone is happy and all is right in the world. I'm talking about the fact that whether or not a girl enjoys it, truly wants it, or regrets it the next day doesn't even enter into the equation for PUA strategies outside of the extent to which it puts the guy at risk for being accused of rape. The goal of PUA isn't for a girl to enjoy herself, it's for the guy to h…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 07:56 PM
1

yeah, that's true. If I ever have a son, when he grows up I'm going to sit him down (or have his Dad sit him down) and talk about how friendship sometimes means different things to girls and boys.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 07:50 PM
1

i mean, if you actually are ignoring her just because she said no to sex, and not as a strategy to overcome LMR, then my argument doesn't really apply. Also who honestly gives a shit about ''Ignoring someone is a form of social aggression among women.''? Typical TRP guy. you want US to care about YOUR problems (guys not getting enough sex) but you don't give a shit about OUR problems (men pushing women to have sex when we don't really want to)
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 07:49 PM
1

You're taking my analogy a bit too literally.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 07:34 PM
2

She consented so no, not rape. Just bad sex (for her, anyway). She should really rethink her decision making process.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 07:32 PM
0

You sound like every date rapist ever. "but judge, I know she told me to stop, but she had 'come fuck me eyes'!"
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 04:10 PM
1

you are not just ignoring her because she won't have sex with you, you are ignoring her in an attempt to get her to have sex with you. you're not just expressing your feelings, you are behaving in a way that is targeted to elicit a certain behavior in her. That's what makes it a PUA technique. If it were just "well, we're not going to have sex, so I guess I'll go check my email," PUA wouldn't be advising that men do this as a method of overcoming LMR You made the claim that this behavior works b…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 04:07 PM
1

I already explained what was so bad about fiddling with your phone and withdrawing attention. Remember my whole post about ignoring someone as a form of social aggression?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 02:15 PM
1

How was I supposed to know? Perhaps I should have known because I was her date and we were naked in her bed making out. You couldn't have been expected to know. You're not psychic. The fault lies with her in this one. Here is where the feminist in me comes in (I'm a sex positive feminist): rather than guys trying to learn ways of telling the difference between a girl who says she doesn't want to have sex and actually means it vs. a girl who says she doesn't want to have sex but really does, we s…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 02:14 PM
0

The point of Louis CK's skit is that the girl was batshit crazy. Louis CK didn't do anything wrong, SHE did. but men NEED TO KNOW that this kind of shit is a reality and if they want to fuck a bunch of different women, they need to be informed about how to tell the difference between a woman that does not want to have sex and a woman that is putting up "last minute resistance". or, they could just have sex with women who actually want to have sex, and are mature enough to say so verbally or non-…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 02:07 PM
0

haha, also, your story reminded me of this Louis CK standup bit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4hNaFkbZYU
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 12:47 PM
0

yes, I think incels are a fringe group. The extreme end of the male spectrum of sexual activity.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 12:28 PM
1

I completely agree with everything you are saying. You're right - what I've described is one possible set of circumstances. I did not mean to imply that this scenario is ubiquitous. As for the situation you describe with your friend's sister's roommate, I think you handled that perfectly! if she's upset you didn't fuck her then she's crazy. People aren't psychic, how the fuck were you supposed to know she actually wanted you to fuck her? All you can do is take someone at their word. If they say …
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 12:22 PM
1

Well, I completely disagree that cuddling makes a man a loser. But ok then. Don't ask her to cuddle. if she says she doesn't want to have sex, you could say "ok, we don't have to have sex tonight. it's getting late, shall we call it an evening?" You have to accept the fact that other people have the right to make their own decisions, freely, and without coercion. You may really really want sex, but that doesn't mean you're entitled to get it from that particular girl. Just like a girl may really…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 12:16 PM
1

Well, if a girl says she doesn't want to have sex, a guy could respond "ok, we don't have to have sex tonight. What about cuddling? Do you want to cuddle?" Here, you're acknowledging her wishes, reassuring her that you respect her right to decide if sex happens, and suggesting an innocuous and appealing alternative. And who knows? maybe cuddling leads to kissing, and kissing leads to sex :). If she says no to cuddling, or if she is ok with cuddling but still says no to sex, I think that's a good…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 02:51 AM
1

From reading her posts, I think I can safely say that /r/HappilySingleWomen and I are very different people. I think I would have a really hard time dating a guy if I found out he was a PUA. What's terrifying about accidentally sleeping with a guy from TRP? Well, many TRP men have really negative views of women, and it's pretty terrifying to imagine being so intimate with someone who has such toxic views about you. It would be kind of like finding out I've just had sex with a neo-nazi (I'm half …
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 02:27 AM
-2

and, it's gone.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 02:15 AM
1

That's a broad question. Advice regarding what, specifically?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 02:14 AM
1

Is this wrong to do? (and why) There are gradations of right and wrong. Murdering someone is very wrong. Stealing someone's lunch from the fridge at work is a little wrong. I would say, this sort of behavior falls in the vicinity of "pretty wrong." As in, not something that should be illegal or punishable by jail time, but also not something a good person would do. Why is it wrong? Well, for starters it's manipulative and exploitative, but that in and of itself doesn't necessarily make it so bad…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 02:11 AM
1

Because kids are stupid and make dumb decisions. Maybe she didn't see it coming - when you're having a good time out with a guy and he seems really nice, you're not thinking of safety. We call these situations "learning experiences."
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 01:50 AM
1

Despite what you may think, when you behave this way you are not conveying to a girl that you don't care if she has sex with you. If you really were ok with it, you wouldn't all of a sudden start ignoring her. Ignoring someone is a form of social aggression among women. So when you do this, you are conveying, nonverbally, that you are angry and displeased with her for not having sex with you. Women pick up on this stuff much more than men, in my experience, because girls are taught from the crad…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 01:26 AM
1

Then this person is an asshole. You can still walk away from an asshole. Yep, you got it. But its a lot harder to walk away from an asshole if you have low self esteem, or are unsure of yourself, or have the tendency to cave to peer pressure. Which is why most of us non-TRP folks think that the girls who tend to get taken in by PUA/TRP tactics are the ones with one or more of these traits.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 12:38 AM
1

they are about turning the situation to your advantage to get the outcome you desire. In the case of "overcoming last minute resistance," you desire sex, but the girl has expressed that she doesn't want to have sex. Strategies for overcoming LMR are designed, as the name explicitly states, to OVERCOME her RESISTANCE. How is that about giving her what she wants? what she wants doesn't even factor into it. it's about what YOU want. and don't say, "what she really wants is my penis"
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 12:28 AM
1

What you're saying contradicts itself. How am I both forming a genuine connection in this situation and simultaneously just using her for sex? I said she believes you are a forming a genuine connection, not that you are actually forming one. Also, at what point can you say two people "have a genuine connection and intend to develop a 'real' relationship?" if you go on multiple dates with someone and neither of you has explicitly stated that you are NOT looking for a 'real' relationship, the defa…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 12:24 AM
-2

i think you're expressing some male solipsism here, assuming your own experience is universal. There are lots of men out there who are not experiencing an over-abundance of sexual frustration. Men in relationships, men in between relationships who don't see periods of minimal sexual activity as abnormal, men who are single but are able to find partners for casual sex. Sure, maybe they wish they were having more sex, or could have sex with super models or movie stars, but a certain degree of frus…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 12:18 AM
-3

oh don't be such a fricken hypocrite. Do you stay up at night worrying about the plight of starving children in Africa? No? Oh my god, you're such a solipsist. It's like you're living in a dream world. Most of the guys in my life have plenty of success with women. And those that don't usually don't spend all their time talking to me about it (shockingly). So I didn't think much about it until TRP brought it to my attention. I'm not saying that sexual frustration in men isn't a real issue. But it…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/15 08:31 PM
0

things like "overcoming last minute resistance" aren't about making yourself more attractive to women.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/15 08:16 PM
-1

So, you know why TRPers generally target young women? Because most TRPers are also young! Young women are generally the target demographic for young men. The horror! That's a good point. I was thinking specifically of older TRPers (30s-40s) targeting much younger women (18-24). I took me until I was about...24? to figure out that women were fully cognizant of and responsible for their sexual choices. They didn't need me to "protect them" from their own desires. If this is true, then how could PU…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/15 05:57 PM
-2

ok then. As long as you're consistent, i'm good with it.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/15 05:52 PM
1

I chose to eat the ice cream and it was my responsibility. I could have told him I don't want any. That's called "last minute resistance," and TRPers are constantly trying to figure out ways to get around it. Ok, but if somebody offers me ice cream and I take it, I don't turn around after eating it and blame that person for my eating of the ice cream. Well, that's a tricky question. Say the person giving you the ice cream REALLY wants you to eat it, because it will make them feel better about th…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/15 05:40 PM
1

Ok, so if you choose to do something after weighing the costs and benefits, would you not say you are getting a benefit from that thing? Say I choose, in a moment of weakness, to eat a whole carton of ice cream. While I'm eating the ice cream I feel great, but then afterward I feel a bit sick. Maybe my stomach feels a little iffy for the next few days because of all the dairy. And when I step on the scale, I realize my little splurge has just cost me my bikini body. So, did I get a benefit from …
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/15 04:36 PM
-2

if you think this way, then presumably you also think that all men who try to use "nice guy coins" to get sex and are then heartbroken when they discover that the object of their desire views them as just a friend are entitled assholes who need to realize that women don't owe them a damn thing.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/15 04:19 PM
1

well, presumably if you two are going on multiple dates, she probably assumes that you guys have a genuine connection and are dating with the intention of developing a real relationship. If she were just interested in casual sex, then she'd probably just have sex with you right away. What you're describing is using sex with other women to tide you over until you've convinced some girl that you're not just using her for sex and then...just use her for sex. That's cold.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/15 04:17 PM
-2

Don't you see that these types of tactics can sour you in the eyes of a normal respectful guy too? But at the same time, we have to protect ourselves from men who are trying to exploit us, stringing US along, making us believe they want the same things we want when in reality they are just trying to get laid. Ah, the delicate balance of dating. It's not for the faint of heart!
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/15 02:43 AM
0

Good luck trying to not get your pussy juices to flow through your panties as you set there staring at the ripped/jacked physique of the typical redpiller eye roll
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/15 02:37 AM
-2

that's cold.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/15 01:56 AM
-4

wow. you really don't get women.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/15 01:49 AM
1

he's reading those books to try to get something from women. You don't have to like someone to try to get something from them. women have something these men want: sex. A man can hate women and still want sex. TRP men are all about trying to get sex while spending as little time with women as possible.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/15 01:45 AM
-4

like all heuristics, it is imperfect. Hence rule #1: don't sleep with them right away! from what I've seen on TRP, most TRPers get frustrated after the second sexless date.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/15 01:05 AM
-1

yeah, I know. It only took me until I was .... 24? to figure that out. Young people are idiots. Hence why I find TRP horrible for targeting young women.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/15 12:49 AM
-2

definitely my own free choice. My point was, I think TRPers despise women and also want to have sex with them. And they despise them because they want to have sex with them.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/15 12:46 AM
0

I've never been in a sexless marriage, or a sexless relationship for that matter, so I can't say for certain what that's like, or what might cause such a situation. But in my experience at least, I only have sex with men I'm emotionally attached to. And I've had the experience of being dropped by a guy I thought was into me after we had sex. It's a horrible experience, and it's made me very cautious and, to be honest, a bit cynical about dating and about men.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/15 12:38 AM
-1

You're sweet, but that association left when along came the libertine sexual revolution. God bless feminism. Not for everyone.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/15 12:35 AM
1

But you wouldn't let him plate you anyway. You'd go at the "I'm not exclusive" moment. ...yeah, that's true.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/15 12:34 AM
4

Drop into the first date conversation I've actually tried this once...I met a guy who seemed a bit TRP, so I dropped the word "oneitis" into the conversation to see how he reacted. He didn't know what I was talking about (or he faked it really well) so I give him a pass...
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/15 12:07 AM
6

OMG shit-tests! you're so right about this. Agreeing and amplifying is a total RP move.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/15 12:05 AM
0

no heuristic is perfect. But the guy you're describing, the guy who "is attractive and confident, charming, well built, masculine, witty, and holds the interests of lots of women..." is often more interested in making himself feel good than make you feel good about yourself. The savvy gal who's been around the block a few times won't fall for this.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 11:58 PM
-4

honestly, when I first discovered TRP I was also flattered, in a perverse sort of way. It just never occurred to me that guys put so much thought into figuring out ways to get girls. I know that probably sounds naive to you, but it's true.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 11:52 PM
-2

I don't follow
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 11:47 PM
-3

lets say, for the sake of argument, that you're right, nobody is being manipulated. A girl honestly thinks she's just being friends with a guy, a guy honestly thinks it's clear that they are just having sex, no strings attached. that doesn't mean there aren't victims. I can't speak from the guys perspective, but I can speak from the girls perspective, and I can say it's heart-wrenching when you find out a guy you genuinely thought was "into" you was just interested in fucking you. Man, I'm so ha…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 11:46 PM
-2

If a guy said, "we tend to associate friendliness with sexual attraction, and then we get hurt when a woman says we're just friends." Would you label those women as manipulative? No. Of course not. You would correctly identify the male as the problem here. In all honesty, I used to, yes. But then I grew up, and realized that just as men associate friendliness with sexual attraction, women associate sex with emotional attachment. So we're all victims, and we're all assholes.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 11:40 PM
-3

Do you truly desire to have sex with people who don't turn you on No or you despise? ...sometimes
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 11:30 PM
-4

the thing is though, TRP guys aren't trying to figure out what women want. They are trying to figure out how to get women to have sex with them. It's not the same thing. TRPers are trying to figure out how to GET something from women, not how to GIVE something to women.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 11:24 PM
0

Success!!
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 11:17 PM
-2

women tend to associate sex with emotional attachment. So when a young girl has sex with a guy, it's often because she really likes him. Then he never calls, and she is heartbroken, and has to learn the hard lessen that sex often does not equal emotional attachment for men.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 11:15 PM
-4

the thing is though, TRP isn't about giving women what they want. it's about TAKING what they want FROM women. If all you take from TRP is "be fit and dress well and be confident and be strong" then....awesome. Sounds good to me. But if what you take from it is techniques for manipulating women into sleeping with you, then you're the enemy and women everywhere, myself included, are looking for ways to spot you and avoid you.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 11:07 PM
-2

In order to make me run away, you would have to be a rabid feminist, and this in turn would alienate the vast majority of men which I think wasn't your plan. you gotta hit that sweet spot - enough feminist to scare away the TRPers, not enough to scare away the nice guys. It's a delicate balance.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 10:52 PM
0

Feminine name...but also your family name....man, that's tough. Ok...Carol? Incidentally, I'm now listening to a playlist of all my Beatles songs :)
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 10:49 PM
3

fuck yeah! #cats4lyf
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 10:39 PM
0

Rigby?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 10:38 PM
-2

How fucking disconnected from reality do you have to be to think that someone would want to sleep with someone they hate? Awww, this gives me hope for TRP!
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 10:36 PM
1

Penny lane?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 10:32 PM
-5

What makes you think that the list you wrote applies only to RP men? TRP men or TRP - like men. So, on what basis do you characterize women as being, automatically, not interested in casual sex? not at all. but a woman interested in casual sex doesn't need to avoid TRP men, does she? So, a guy interested in casual sex can't actually like you? What kind of fucked up world do you live in? Sure he can. Incidentally, the FWB relationships I've cultivated over the years have ALL been with guys who ac…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 10:30 PM
0

You won't figure us out. There's far too few of us out there and the ones there are are not going to come out and tell you. But we will keep trying!
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 10:22 PM
1

me neither :( I wanna see the shiztu-maltese with the snaggletooth!!!!
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 10:18 PM
0

yeah, this one has to be applied with care. You don't want to scare off a nice guy. But if applied judiciously, it can scare off the kind of guy you don't want to date.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 10:12 PM
4

as much as I hate to admit this, I can't help but like you more, /r/ECoast_man, now that I know you have a Shitzu-Maltese with a snaggletooth. Pics????
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 10:10 PM
-4

Of course I worry that TRP works at tricking women into believing they have met a man they want to be with . I'm scared that there are men out there who know techniques to manipulate me. I hope to god that I'll be able to spot them, because I don't want to have my heart broken again. Aren't you scared there are women out there who know techniques to manipulate you? I don't believe TRP actually creates healthy relationships, although I'm sure there are exceptions. /r/TheGreasyPole and his wife se…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 10:07 PM
1

hmmm. good one! Loving animals is definitely on my list as well, although I'm not sure it relates to TRP...
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 09:54 PM
0

I don't disagree, but I think you're assuming a level of maturity and knowledge in the realm of LTRs yes, that could be. I'm 31 (i.e., no longer a target for TRPers) so it's possible that maturity plays a role. I made plenty of dumb mistakes in my 20s that would support this theory.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 09:52 PM
-1

LOL awesome gif! And I mean, that's the point, right? My understanding of negging is that it is "Low-grade insults meant to undermine the self-confidence of a woman so she might be more vulnerable to your advances." source = urban dictionary.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 09:47 PM
3

one of my favorite quotes from Justified: "you can't control who you fall in love with; only how far down the road you go with them." Sure, you can't control who you are attracted to. But you can control who you date.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 09:39 PM
0

thanks!
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 09:36 PM
3

My thoughts exactly. You can't credit TRP for advice you could get just about anywhere. I've said it before and i say it again now: if you work out, dress better, and approach more women you will see your success rate go up. It has nothing to do with TRP, it's just common sense. Guys, if you want to prove TRP works yiu have to demonstrate success in the absence of these things.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 08:06 PM
2

From your post, it sounds as though you think that TRP and the Anger Phase are completely separate from one another, but this is not the case. It is no accident that men who are angry at women are attracted to TRP, because TRP validates their anger and gives them an outlet and justification for all of their vitriol. TRP dehumanizes women by emphasizing that women are not only different, but fundamentally inferior to men: Men are rational where women are ruled by emotions. Men are adults while wo…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/15 05:10 PM
5

You put a good face on TRP, but you also tend to gloss over or minimize the negative aspects of it. I view your posts as the "best case scenario" of TRP. At it's best, TRP ideology is applied the way you describe applying it. But TRP is seldom at it's best. I view you and individuals like you as "moderate TRPers", while the more caustic, openly misogynistic folks are "fundamentalist TRPers." You moderate TRPers prove that TRP doesn't HAVE to be sexist, hateful and full of misogyny, but the funda…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/15 04:31 PM
4

You have a lovely way of phrasing certain TRP ideals that make them seem less caustic. Haha this is so true. /r/TheGreasyPole, you do have a way of presenting TRP ideology in it's most positive light. They should hire you as their PR rep.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/15 02:09 PM
3

I don't consider this type of thinking immoral, misogynist or sexist. But I do find it a little baffling...what exactly is it that makes you "the prize?" A lot of TRP writing advocates that men start thinking of themselves as the prize, without necessarily doing anything to be one. Personally, I think going around thinking you're "the prize" can be both good and bad. It can be narcissistic, but since a lot of guys who find themselves attracted to TRP ideology probably have self esteem issues whe…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/15 02:06 PM
3

TRP is right that society tends to focus on violence (physical or emotional) perpetrated by men against women, but pretty much ignores violence (physical or emotional) perpetrated by women against men. I also think TRP is right when they advise men to improve themselves as a way to attract women. I don't buy in to all that PUA nonsense but I think a guy will definitely see his success rate with women go up if he starts taking better care of himself, gets fit, builds some muscles (I also agree wi…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/15 12:12 PM
1

Hmm. Maybe there's a branch of the movement that's full of crazy people, then. Personally, I have mixed feelings about the fat acceptance movement. On the one hand, American culture perpetuates these ridiculously unattainable standards for female beauty which, when coupled with the idea that only beautiful women have any value, are a recipe for misery and self-loathing. I believe it's very important to send the message, particularly to very young girls, that they're not worthless just because th…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/06/15 09:25 PM
1

I may be wrong here, but I think you're misinterpreting the goals of the fat acceptance movement. They aren't saying "all men should want to sleep with fat women," they are saying "society should stop promoting the idea that fat women are worthless human beings." You, personally, are not obligated to sleep with anyone you don't want to sleep with. The fat acceptance movement doesn't tell fat women "every man should want to sleep with you!" it tells them "you are beautiful the way you are, and th…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/06/15 02:09 PM
1

you know, I think the core of this entire argument is that TRP insists on using the term AWALT when they don't actually mean ALL women are like that. Is it really so hard to say MANY WOMEN ARE LIKE THAT? Why do you think it's so important for TRPers to say ALL women are like that even when you yourself admit, "when we say AWALT we're saying 95% like this." And for the record, if a cute guy I'd been smiling flirtatiously at across the bar came up to me and said "hello, gorgeous, you gonna buy me …
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/15 05:22 PM
1

you realize you're countering my anecdotal evidence with your own anecdotal evidence. Just pointing that out. Anyway, I don't doubt for a moment that your friend is very good at picking up women, but I'm guessing part of your friend's game includes the ability to gauge his chances with a particular woman. He may find a given woman especially attractive, but if he's as good as you say, he can probably tell pretty early on whether or not she's interested, and whether or not she's susceptible to th…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/15 04:09 PM
1

I feel like all of these conversations go something like this: TRPer: TRP strategies make us attractive to all women! Girl: actually, what you're describing makes you come across as kind of a dick. TRPer: but that's what makes you like us, which is why the strategies work! Girl: but they don't work on me or my friends. TRPer: you don't think they do, but they do! Girl: no seriously, this guy tried that exact strategy on me last night and I thought he was an asshole. TRPer: you can't explain why …
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/15 03:48 PM
1

Just that Cool guy that I really dig and can't quite put my finger on why. Yeeeaaaahhhh. If every single FR I've ever read on TRP is anything to go by, those boys would come across as assholes to a large proportion of women. Maybe they're doing it wrong?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/15 03:23 PM
1

we often use ourselves as an example, but the fact is, most girls who post here (as far as I can tell) don't see the things TRP describes working on other women either. I don't know who all these TRPers are having sex with (assuming they are having sex at all and not just making it up), but it isn't anyone I know. Hard to believe that "All locks are like this" when all of the locks you encounter in your day-to-day life are not like that.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/15 02:55 PM
0

The vast majority of Girls are attracted to muscles, even if they are not rationally attracted to muscles I don't think anyone disagrees with this.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/15 02:41 PM
1

If PUA are Conmen, then women are just stupid naive suckers Yeah, you can make that argument. And I don't entirely disagree, but the naiveté of the mark doesn't necessarily let the conman off the hook, morally. In other words, it's possible for PUA's to be assholes AND girls who fall for PUA tricks to be naive suckers.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/06/15 08:17 PM
1

please explain how they are different from con men. And don't say "PUA is just about confidence." I'm talking about the specific techniques PUA teaches men to use, like negging.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/06/15 06:36 PM
3

TRP says "All women are like this." A woman chimes in, claiming "I am not like this." If one woman is not that "this," then by definition, ALL women are not "like this."
/r/PurplePillDebate01/06/15 04:19 PM
2

Why is that you women hold such high standards for confidence? Like confidence is attractive only if it's from a natural alpha. Women want men who are confident, not men who are pretending to be confident. If you use PUA and other such things as a way to help you develop confidence, then I don't really see anything wrong with that, and I doubt other women would either. After all, you have to start somewhere.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/06/15 01:01 PM
2

Thinking back on it, it was both that bothered me. The fact that he got into PUA made me question his moral compass. Not all PUA techniques are necessarily manipulative or harmful, but some of them are, and he didn't care. This made me question both his maturity and his sense of right and wrong. If he had said "I'm reading these books to try to help me meet women. Some of the stuff they say to do is pretty terrible, but some of the advice is actually pretty good" then I doubt I would have been b…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/06/15 11:15 AM
3

I use it that way because that's what it means: manipulative: characterized by unscrupulous control of a situation or a person. If you think PUA is synonymous with being confident, then you either don't understand what PUA is or you don't understand what confidence is. edit: if you're using PUA specifically as a stepping stone to try to build confidence with women, and are being careful not to employ the more cringe-worthy techniques, than I guess there's nothing wrong with that....
/r/PurplePillDebate01/06/15 02:46 AM
5

By researching techniques to psychologically manipulate a woman into getting the outcome you want. He described a bunch of these techniques to me (he was reading those books you guys are always going on about, I forget the names). Some of them seemed a bit disingenuous but ultimately harmless. Others seemed really emotionally manipulative. Let me put it this way: pick up artists are like the used car salesman of the sexual market place. They sell their product not on the merits of the product it…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/06/15 02:40 AM
0

if what you enjoy involves exploiting other people, then you're damn right I'm going to judge you for it. It wasn't causing me any harm personally, but it made me completely lose respect for him. I don't want to be friends with someone I don't respect.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/06/15 02:10 AM
4

I dropped my friend because he started looking for ways to manipulate young girls into having sex with him. The type of person who does this isn't someone I want as my friend. If he had just been looking for ways to make himself more attractive to women, like working out, dressing better, having more confidence etc., I would have fully supported him. But that's not what PUA is about, and it's only half of what TRP is about.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/06/15 02:09 AM
6

I've fallen out of touch over the years with equal numbers of male and female friends. I don't drop male friends because they are "beta." If anything, I'd say guys who exhibit the traits TRP labels as "beta" make better friends than guys who exhibit "alpha" traits. Oh hell, why do I even bother. You're just going to say they are orbiting me.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/05/15 08:50 PM
5

If a guy is friends with a girl, and that friendship is tearing him up inside, he should stop being friends with her. The girl is not doing anything wrong - she's just being his friend. She doesn't owe him sex. And he doesn't owe her friendship. He can tell her that as much as he enjoys her company, his attraction for her makes it impossible for them to maintain a platonic friendship. There's no need for either one of them to be assholes about it.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/05/15 08:45 PM
3

If I grew fat, unsightly and lame, these women would probably drop me as a friend, or at least be less of a friend I've only consciously dropped one male friend. Ironically (considering which sub we're on), it was because he got into PUA and started hanging out with really young girls (18-20. He was 30 at the time). I lost all respect for him, along with any interest in keeping him as a friend.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/05/15 08:41 PM
0

Yeah, I think you're right. Most of the time, I feel like people who post on TRP don't even believe rape actually exists. Or at least, rape that doesn't involve a man breaking into a woman's house or jumping out from the bushes and grabbing her. I've never been raped, but I've been around enough rape survivors to say with certainty that while "stranger in the bushes rape" certainly happens and is horrible, the majority of rapes don't fit within that neat little package. Regardless of how the rap…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/05/15 08:31 PM
7

Interesting podcast, thanks for posting. I used to work as a rape crisis counselor, so I know a bit (not a huge amount, but a bit) about rape and the law. I thought they brought up some good points about issues surrounding rape and rape prosecution. They did, however, gloss conveniently over things that didn't support their views. For example, when they were talking about the number of reported rapes in which both parties, male and female, were drunk, they ignored the issue of consent. I wholehe…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/05/15 03:19 PM
1

I'll be sure to prep with seasonally appropriate attire :)
/r/PurplePillDebate30/05/15 02:36 PM
1

thanks man :). You seem like a cool guy too. And for the record, I would love to meet a guy and settle down/get married (although I'd hold off on the kids for now). What I don't want to do, and what I don't want other women to do, is let fear of some mythical wall push me into/keep me in an unhappy relationship. As a child of divorce, I can say with certainty that being single is much better than being in an unhappy marriage, no matter how bad the dating scene is.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/05/15 02:01 PM
1

All the good guys aren't gone when you hit 30. Plenty of men are single in their 30s for the same reasons women are single in their 30s - they spent their 20s focusing on their education or building their careers. They were in an LTR/marriage that didn't work out and now they're back on the market. Despite what you think, it's not that hard, IMO, for a 32 year old woman to find a 35 year old man, if she wants to date up. If she's pretty, it's not hard for her to find a 28 year old man, if that's…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/05/15 01:37 PM
1

could be, but I doubt it. If I ever hit "The Wall" I'll let you know and you can say I told you so.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/05/15 01:18 PM
2

No, I don't believe that. Do I believe 20 year old guys will stop hitting on me? Sure. I'm looking forward to that, actually, because I have no interest in dating 20 year old guys. Will there come a time one day when I will no longer be sexually attractive? Of course, but this happens to EVERYONE, regardless of gender. You think you'll be spinning 19 year old plates when you're 80?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/05/15 01:10 PM
1

The dating pool shrinks dramatically, quickly and irreversibly. Girls used to every man in the world being interested can't understand why the best guys have better options... And all she can attract is the low value guys now. The dating pool shrinks dramatically for everyone. What you are describing applies just as much to men as to women. TRPers drastically overestimate the extent to which women want to date much older men. That 9/10 40 year old guy is competing with 9/10 30 year old guys, and…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/05/15 01:01 PM
1

It's just for female sexual strategy it's all pretty much bad news. I think this is an overly simplistic view. First of all, in terms of physical beauty there are much larger differences between women than within the same woman over time. A 20-year old model will almost certainly be more attractive than a 40-year old model, but that 40 year old model will still be more attractive than the vast majority of 20 year old women. So it's not so much how old you were, as how attractive you are to begin…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/05/15 12:09 PM
2

you're right, the group of individuals you describe don't fit in with my catharsis theory. If you don't "believe for a second that every wall approaching woman does badly, or it is all doom and gloom" then you are I are not really in disagreement. What you are witnessing in your cohort may reflect the TRP concept of The Wall, or it may just reflect the fact that growing older is not always a painless process. I don't think anyone would argue that growing older doesn't involve change - change in …
/r/PurplePillDebate30/05/15 02:29 AM
3

I've said this elsewhere, but I believe the concept of "The Wall" is a form of psychological catharsis for TRPers. Young men who feel rejected enjoy imagining someday rejecting the 30 year old versions of the 20 year old girls who refuse to date them. The glee they experience when imagining the unhappiness and dejection these women will someday suffer is the only form of vengeance available to them. I don't think it accurately describes the experiences of the vast majority of women, and so I don…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/05/15 07:53 PM
1

I don't really understand where you are coming from. Do you believe the only thing of value in life is raising children? Civilization wasn't built by people engaged in child care. Is it because I'm a woman that you react this way?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/05/15 05:47 PM
4

I definitely see the value and appeal in raising a child. Perhaps I will do that some day. But I also see the value and appeal in what I do for my job. I am a scientist, and I genuinely believe that the work I do is making the world a better place. That, to me, has a great deal of value.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/05/15 04:56 PM
4

You know, I go back and forth about this. Most of the time I do want kids, yes. But sometimes I'll hear my friends who have children talk about their sleepless nights, or complain about how they never get time to themselves anymore, and part of me balks a bit. I see their adorable babies and I think "oh my god, I want one!" but then I come home from work to a quiet, clean apartment, pour myself a glass of wine and settle in to read a good book or watch a TV show and I think to myself, "this is t…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/05/15 04:51 PM
5

Quite the opposite, actually. I have an adorable little cat and every evening when I come home, the first thing I do after I put down my keys and purse is go pet her adorable little head and say "Hi tiny!"
/r/PurplePillDebate29/05/15 04:40 PM
3

...
/r/PurplePillDebate29/05/15 03:55 PM
2

Truthfully, I have no idea what that means.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/05/15 03:41 PM
2

Purple (blue leaning) female, American, 31 years old, single, very career focused. AMA :)
/r/PurplePillDebate29/05/15 03:34 PM
1

Man. It's like we're living in different universes. Maybe men really are from Mars...
/r/PurplePillDebate28/05/15 11:30 PM
0

nope.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/05/15 11:44 AM
1

I help my guy friends move, and I once drove 3 hours to pick up a guy friend who got into a car accident two states away. I don't blame you for not wanting to be in a one-sided friendship. I just don't see one-sided friendships as necessarily gender specific. Guys are just as capable as girls of being crappy friends.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/05/15 11:44 AM
2

If every single one of my guy friends has devoted years of his life to pretending to be my friend on the off chance I might one day sleep with them, then I'm WAY more attractive than I think I am lol, because that is a hell of a lot of effort to put into the possibility of maybe one day getting laid. And frankly, if they have been doing that, then how does that make me the bad guy? They are the ones pretending to be my friend. Doesn't that make them the bad guy?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 11:47 PM
1

I feel like a lot of folks here are getting caught up on whether or not my guy friends want to sleep with me. This is not really relevant to my OP. Now, if my guy friends got really mad at me because I don't want to sleep with them and yelled at me that I clearly don't value them, or value them less than men I do want to sleep with, that would be relevant to my OP. But they haven't done that so far, presumably because they realize that I DO value them, even though I don't want to have sex with t…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 10:40 PM
1

sorry bro. I promised myself a while ago I wouldn't get embroiled in PPD debates where it's clear the other person doesn't actually understand what the debate is about.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 10:31 PM
1

you misunderstood the point of my post. go back and read it again.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 10:23 PM
1

Hahah! I think it's funny how no one believes I'm telling the truth because I'm not giving the answer you want. It reminds me of that scene from the HBO show Rome: Lucius: "Did you sleep with my wife? Tell me the truth, and I'll believe you. Titus: "I didn't sleep with your wife." Lucius: "I don't believe you." But seriously, I did think about it, believe it or not. And the idea of not having kids did cross my mind, but then I remembered that we have fertility clinics and sperm banks now, so I c…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 08:10 PM
1

dude, you didn't get my OP. Like, AT ALL.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 08:04 PM
1

yeeaaahhh, trust me, I was there. It had nothing to do with his roommate.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 07:05 PM
1

And before you ask, no, our breakup had absolutely nothing to do with her.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 07:03 PM
1

As much as I would hate to give up heterosexual sex, I think if my options are ONLY being seen platonically or ONLY being seen sexually, I would pick platonic. Guys who only see me as a potential sex partner don't actually value ME, they value my body. Being valued sexually might suit my vanity, but it is ultimately a shallow kind of appreciation. I'd rather be valued for me, my personality, my intelligence, my sense of humor, my loyalty, even if it precludes being desired sexually. And the upsi…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 06:57 PM
1

then you wouldn't have deserved my pie :)
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 06:52 PM
1

who are they angry at?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 06:52 PM
1

so, you're asking if I would rather have no male friends or no male sexual partners? Frankly, both of those sound like shitty options.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 06:04 PM
1

If I want to date the guy, then I'd rather be the girl he wants to date. Otherwise, I'd rather be the girl they want to be friends with.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 05:47 PM
2

I agree. What keeps me from sympathizing completely with incels like the one referenced earlier is that implicit in their belief that women who won't have sex with them don't value them is the belief that women THEY don't want to have sex with have no value.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 04:37 PM
-1

there is so much deep-seeded anger in this post, i don't know whether to feel bad for you or afraid for the girls you come in contact with.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 03:06 PM
1

For the guys where I feel as though there might be some sexual attraction on his part, yes, I flat out told them that it isn't going to happen. I don't lead people on. But I also don't insult men by assuming that just because they are my friend, they must want to have sex with me. Maybe this is true of all TRPers, but it is not true of all men.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 03:04 PM
2

yes, final say over MY OWN BODY. Men have final say over everything that happens to their own bodies. We just want the same thing.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 02:32 PM
0

i was talking about romantic relationships.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 02:19 PM
2

yes, I know. That was the whole point of my OP.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 01:05 PM
1

I value them for different things, yes. but I don't value them LESS.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 01:02 PM
3

I would and have. My last boyfriend had a female roommate he was good friends with. They had been friends for years. Didn't bother me at all. And before you ask, no, our breakup had absolutely nothing to do with her.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 01:01 PM
1

I'm sorry to hear that. that sucks.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 01:00 PM
4

most relationships don't last. That's true for everyone. As Dan Savage says, every relationship you're ever going to be in is going to end, until one doesn't.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 12:59 PM
1

Ok. But in the same vein, I challenge YOU to step back for a second and try to see things from a girl's perspective. When you get angry at a girl who won't sleep with you and spit on her offer of friendship, what are you really saying to her? When you treat her well until it becomes clear that you aren't going to get sex and then cast her aside, what does she feel?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 12:58 PM
1

A lot, probably. But the fact that I don't want to sleep with them doesn't mean I think they have less value than the men I do want to sleep with.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 12:55 PM
6

Guys with actual gfs don't have female friends they hang out with yes they do. If nothing else, their gf would put a ban on that. I'm friends with their girlfriends too. Maybe stop lying to yourself? I really don't think I am. sorry.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 12:45 PM
0

you clearly have a very dark view of women and human relationships. I don't expect anything I say will change that, but I can tell you that this isn't the case with me and my friends. I don't use them as dishrags. I enjoy their company and respect and value them as people. I do favors for them when they need it, just as they do for me. That's part of being someone's friend. I'm not wasting their time, we spend time together because we enjoy each other's company and see value in interactions that…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 12:43 PM
5

I do care for him. Just not in a sexual way. I know TRP places no value on that, but I do.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 12:40 PM
3

I'm not. As I've said before, they have girlfriends. Some of my guy friends who I've known longer have had many girlfriends. Those girls are gone and I'm still around because friendship is more stable than most (not all, obviously) sexual relationships.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 12:39 PM
2

that's not true. I am friends with men I find sexually attractive as well as friends with men I don't find sexually attractive. I'm not sleeping with any of them. It seems to me as though a lot of men view friendship as a consolation prize girls offer if they don't want to have sex with you. I'm arguing that a lot of women view friendship and sex as equally good, and may even value you more if they genuinely want to be friends with you.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 12:34 PM
2

but men don't have to see value the same way you do of course they don't. I wasn't trying to say that men should see value any sort of way, but I think it might benefit us all to consider things from another perspective. If a guy tries to sleep with a female friend and she turns him down, the guy can get hurt and feel devalued OR, he can think to himself "She views the relationship between sex and value differently than I do. She is not devaluing me as a person, even if it feels that way to me."…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 12:27 PM
-1

yeah, I agree. the point I'm trying to make here is that women don't assign value with sex the way that men do.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 12:14 PM
6

well, since you asked... In my mind at least, much more goes into deciding to date someone than whether or not I find him sexually attractive and whether or not we're friends. Some things that aren't an issue if you're just friends become an issue if you start dating. In the case of the guy I'm thinking about, he's just really immature. A kid in a man's body. It's not a problem for our friendship, but I know I couldn't date him. Other things that come to mind that won't make or break a friendshi…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 12:13 PM
5

My guy friends DO have girlfriends. Just not me. OUR relationship is platonic, and of much higher value to me than some guy I think is sexy.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 12:00 PM
4

Worse off, absolutely.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 11:58 AM
1

It reflects his SMV, his sexual marketplace value. This means the extent to which you find a man sexually attractive reflects his value as a sexual being. It doesn't actually reflect his SMV. It reflects his SMV to me. The fact that I don't want to sleep with him doesn't mean that other girls don't. Some of my female friends and I have wildly different tastes in men, which means that I might find a guy ridiculously hot and want to jump his bones, but to her he's just "meh."
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 11:57 AM
0

I have already read it. And when I read it the first time, I thought to myself "why does this guy think that girls are making a statement about his value just because they don't want to sleep with him?" And thus began the trail of contemplation that led me to this post. I'm not denying that men think this way. I'm pointing out that women don't think this way.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 11:54 AM
-2

On an American College campus, a majority of girls are open to casual sex and one night stands. Where are you getting this from? This certainly wasn't the case on my college campus.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 04:06 AM
-3

Even if sex is harder to get and more desirable for men, that doesn't translate to "women can get sex any time they want."
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 04:03 AM
-2

I was contradicting gavinok's assertion that girls don't do favors/nice things, like bake cookies, for guys they are just friends with.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 04:01 AM
1

I'm sure the same goes for undesirable girls. I think this is a feature of being undesirable, and probably doesn't really have too much to do with gender. and before you say "even ugly girls can get sex," think of it from the perspective of getting what you want. Men want sex, undesirable men can't get it. Women want relationships, undesirable women can't get them. Everyone loses.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 04:00 AM
0

sounds like you've had some shitty platonic friends who happened to be women.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 03:53 AM
1

What do they "not have?" Nothing. I just don't want to fuck them. Other girls want to fuck them. Some currently have girlfriends, some are between relationships at the moment. I have a few guy friends I wouldn't mind fucking. They are super hot. I refrain from doing so, however, because I don't especially want to date them. I'd rather be friends. what do they not have that causes me to see no value in sexual contact with them? Nothing. I can see plenty of potential value in having sex with them.…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 03:42 AM
-1

the flaw in your analogy is that despite what it might seem like to guys, sex is scarce for women too. Unless a woman enjoys casual sex or one night stands AND she's super ballsy and willing to openly proposition guys (which is way harder than you might think) AND she's not afraid of being slut shamed, most girls aren't going to have access to sex any time they want unless they are in a relationship.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 03:30 AM
1

I don't disagree really, but I would add that the kinkier stuff can also come from wanting to please yourself. kinky sex can be just as much a part of "I want me to get off" as "I want him to get off." If the kinky sex dries up over time, then chances are she never really enjoyed it to begin with.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 03:20 AM
1

I don't think seeing a guy on the street you wanna fuck and putting that against your friends is a worthwhile argument. It's a worthwhile argument because it illustrates my point that I (and, I believe, most women) do not automatically value men they want to have sex with more than men they don't want to have sex with.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 03:16 AM
0

actually, the question isn't whether men prefer sex to friendship (I think the answer to that is obvious), the question is whether men equate a woman's sexual desire with their own value. Whether my guy friends would sleep with me if I asked them to is irrelevant. The point I'm trying to make is that I don't value them less just because I don't want to sleep with them. But some guys (not my guy friends, I hope) feel as though a woman values them less if she doesn't want to sleep with them.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 03:13 AM
3

If that's the case, then I think a lot of TRPers are misinterpreting this as well. I've read many variations of the "if she won't fuck you she doesn't respect you" or "if she won't fuck you she thinks you're worthless" trope. I think there is definitely conflation of sexual market value with all-around value going on.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 03:11 AM
-1

I baked my best guy friend an apple pie as a bribe to get him to come apple picking with me. I have 0 desire to have sex with him.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 03:06 AM
4

As many as it takes. It's her vagina after all. How many vaginas do you need to stick your dick in before you fulfill your "quota"? The answer is, as many as it takes because it's your dick.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 02:18 AM
11

This just couldn't be further from the truth. I don't view my platonic male friends as my "favorite spayed pet." I view them and value them as my friends. The fact that I don't want to have sex with them is irrelevant to my view of their value as human beings. I feel like you are projecting your own views of sex and value onto women. Could it be that you don't value women you don't want to sleep with, and therefore you assume that women who don't want to sleep with you don't value you?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 02:14 AM
5

I think the simplest explanation for a girl not wanting to have anal sex is that she doesn't enjoy anal sex. Never mind what she did before, she could have done it for a million reasons. If she doesn't want to do it now it's probably because she just doesn't want to do it.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 02:09 AM
1

but the implication seems to be that sexual value > platonic value. I don't think is true so much for women. If anything, I'd say platonic value > sexual value. In my world, telling someone "you're a great guy and I love hanging out with you!" is a much greater compliment than saying "you're hot, I'd like to fuck you." In a guys world, I feel like the reverse would be true.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 02:07 AM
0

it could mean a lot of things. Maybe she was unhappy and insecure before, and now she finally feels she has found a guy she is comfortable with. Maybe she felt coerced to do it before, but since then she has worked on her self esteem and sense of empowerment and now refuses to be coerced into sexual acts she doesn't enjoy. Or maybe her libido has dropped. There are tons of possible explanations.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 01:56 AM
4

You're implying that the fact that a girl is willing to do certain sexual things with one guy, but not another, means she thinks the first guy is better/hotter/more alpha than the second guy. But there is another, perfectly plausible explanation: she did it once or twice, didn't like it, and doesn't want to do it again. In all likelihood, what a girl is and isn't willing to do with her boyfriend has NOTHING to do with some value judgement about the boyfriend's worth or "alphaness," and everythin…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 01:40 AM
3

how do you explain the fact that a woman will have, say, anal sex or let a guy cum on her face when Bobby Blue Pill doesn't get to do those things with her? Maybe she let some guy do it one time, didn't like it, and doesn't want to do it again. You are implying that this girl is being a bitch for not letting her new boyfriend do the same stuff to her that she let another guy do. But another way of looking at it is to say that her new boyfriend is being an asshole for pressuring her to do sexual …
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 01:33 AM
5

I also disagree with the implication that a woman is "settling for a beta to provide for her". Like I said, maybe her values changed. I agree, 100%. What a girl is looking for when she's 20 and wants a casual hook up is probably going to be completely different from what she's looking for when she's 30 and wants to find a life partner. She's not settling, she just has different priorities.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 01:30 AM
-1

so really what you're saying is, 80% of men are pissed off because they're not getting the same amount of sex as the other 20%. Maybe if there was less slut shaming, some of those 80% might be getting laid more?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 01:27 AM
3

why bother making a comment like this? Because I've been through this before. Many times. Someone presents statistics that contradict a TRP theory. TRPers ignore the statistics, and present that one study that seems to support their views. Someone goes in and actually reads the study, points out the ways in which it is invalid or misquoted or simply not conclusive, and TRPers either a) ignore them or b) reiterate exactly what they said before. I'm trying to prepare DevilishRogue for the inevitab…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/05/15 06:02 PM
6

yep, assholes and bullies piss me off.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/05/15 03:37 PM
2

are you a feminist? Yes, I consider myself a feminist. if so, why? Because feminism is about freedom, independence and equality for women - it means living in a world where I have the right to make my own choices about my life and ultimately, veto power over all decisions regarding what goes into, or comes out of, my vagina. Without complete control over your own body, there is no equality. Do you see flaws in the ideology of feminism? I think it's difficult to make sweeping statements about fem…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/05/15 03:31 PM
3

I think you're overstating the negative consequences of being a stud. Sure, some people might accuse them of being manipulative or objectifying women (especially if they use PUA tactics to get laid and make derogatory comments about the women they sleep with), but there is nowhere near the social vilification for men who sleep around that there is for women who sleep around. It's even in the name - stud is a compliment, slut is an insult. Second, this whole "female partners can nowadays revoke c…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/05/15 03:11 PM
3

You can go blue in the face showing TRPers stats that poke holes in their theories. They will just ignore you. They only pay attention to the 2 studies that appear to support their claims.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/05/15 03:05 PM
9

you can rationalize it any way you want, buddy, but if you find it "amusing" to tell a girl she's dumb and not funny and the only reason people are nice to her is because they want to fuck her, you're a jerk. You said you don't want women to lie to you. Well, there's the truth.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/15 10:45 PM
3

should they shave their body hair? Well, most guys prefer women without leg/armpit hair, so if her goal is to maximize her attractiveness then yea, she should shave it. Does that mean she has to shave it, or she's gross if she doesn't? Nah.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/15 10:20 PM
8

It is kind of amusing to tell a girl that she's neither smart or funny, that she's rather slow and her jokes are terrible. That the only reason she's been told that so much is because guys want to rub their dicks around in her body. I agree. It's also kind of amusing to tell a guy that he's not attractive and not good in bed. That the only reason he's been told that so much is because girls want him to buy them stuff. It's so funny to see the look on his face as his self-esteem crumbles. Hilario…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/15 10:17 PM
0

I feel like there should be conflict between these two sides, because their ideas contradict one another: for example, the self-improvement side tries to stop judging themselves by how women think of them, the PUA side judges themselves ENTIRELY on how women think of them, (e.g., the extent to which they get laid). The self-improvement group tries to BE different, the PUA group tries to SEEM different. If I were the self-improvement crowd, I would feel like the PUA crowd was giving me a bad name…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/15 08:02 PM
-1

Do you think there is conflict between these two sides of TRP?
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/15 07:39 PM
3

For me, things like negging and dread game are the biggest turn offs imaginable. When a guy negs me, I think "what a jerk" and move on. If he tries to dread game me by not calling or flirting with other girls, I think "what a jerk" and move on. One piece of Red Pill advice that works on me is being my rock. I think TRP takes this idea too far - it's ok for a guy to show weakness, and too much stoicism or lack of emotion makes it difficult to connect. But as much as the feminist in me hates to ad…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/15 03:12 PM
2

If you don't mind my asking, what kind of marital problems prompted you to seek out TRP? was it just a lack of sex or were there other things?
/r/PurplePillDebate20/05/15 06:25 PM
3

the second two - what was the event that broke the camel's back, and what would you say made you receptive to redpill ideas in the first place?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/05/15 09:03 PM
3

what was it about feminism that bugged you so much? Was it something specific, or just the general tone?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/05/15 08:36 PM
4

Its interesting that it was a platonic relationship that steered you toward TRP. If you don't mind my asking, what did she do? How did she not understand/support you?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/05/15 08:20 PM
3

are you incapable of accepting genuine sympathy?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/05/15 08:00 PM
4

Yeah, I agree. This is why I like purple pill :) We get to call both sides out on their shittiness.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/05/15 07:29 PM
4

It does seem to though, once you pass an age threshold, then you are told you're "broken." And TRP tells all 30 year old women who are single and have slept with more than 5 guys that they are worthless and broken. Haters gonna hate. But I feel your pain. Best to ignore them.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/05/15 07:26 PM
11

I'm so sorry you've been made to feel that way. Thats really unfair. Number of sexual partners, be it 0 or 50, does not dictate your value as a human being. And I for one hope you will contribute to as many discussions as you like!
/r/PurplePillDebate19/05/15 04:57 PM
7

posts like these (archwinger's, not yours) are part of why I find it so ironic that TRP advocates women get married very young. People make stupid decisions when they are young. They do things because they think they are supposed to, or because their parents or society told them to. Obviously, people can get married for the wrong reasons at any age. But a 30 year old woman who has been around the block a few times, dated more than 1 man, gotten to know herself and her tastes/sexual desires, is f…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/05/15 04:45 PM
4

well, I didn't say it was the only source of creepiness.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/15 05:55 PM
3

I never said anything about the man being a provider. I was talking about him having HIS shit together, so he can provide for HIMSELF. I think everyone, male and female, should have their shit together and generally act their age.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/15 05:42 PM
1

Not necessarily a provider role. A "having your shit together" role. It's as much a mental thing as anything. I realize looking back over my post that I came across as highly critical of guys in their 30s who are still in school or working entry level jobs. I don't think there's anything wrong with those things, but combine that with exclusively dating/hanging out with much younger people, and you get a guy, or a girl, who doesn't have his shit together (imo). One of those things by itself doesn…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/15 05:33 PM
4

fair enough. What I find ironic (and this is 100% anecdotal) is that the girls I knew when I was 18-24 who preferred older men where the same ones who slept around, a lot. Meaning, the opposite of what most TRPers are looking for.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/15 04:52 PM
4

Ok, here's my take on the "older man who only dates young girls" theme. I'm not trying to change your minds so much as give a perspective on how this purple pill feminist reacts when she sees this in action. First, I don't buy the whole fertility thing. It's just a bad argument. Women in their early thirties are fertile, and for that matter so are 15-16 year old girls. Do you want to date them? So here is what goes through my head when I see an older man (mid thirties) dating a much younger woma…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/15 04:41 PM
5

I see this explanation a lot, but honestly that isn't my experience at all. When I was 18, I thought it was super creepy when older guys would hit on me and my friends. Now that I'm older, I still think it's super creepy when I see older guys hitting on young girls. Think Walder Frey.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/15 02:37 PM
1

What do you mean by "believe in"? You believe it exists? you believe it is ok? you believe it is the best way to live? Also, have you watched the show Big Love?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/15 04:51 PM
2

I came here for a similar reason. I found TRP because someone on twoXchromosomes referenced it as being this horrible place filled with misogynistic neck beards, so of course I had to go check it out. I also found it to be a deeply disturbing and scary place. But even so, I respected them for bringing up topics that mainstream culture doesn't want to think about, like the extent to which modern feminism pathologizes male sexuality, and how female relationship violence (physical or emotional) goe…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/15 04:26 PM
1

this reminds me of that line from Hallelujah by Jeff Buckley: "but all I ever learned from love was how to shoot at someone who outdrew you." It certainly does feel like that sometimes.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/15 03:57 PM
7

the fact that women also sometimes use abusive techniques does not mean that TRPs techniques aren't abusive.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/15 03:30 PM
3

I think he means the birth control pill.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/15 01:38 PM
7

I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone, blue pill or otherwise, who would argue that this isn't shitty behavior. Girls lying on online profiles to get free meals are the female equivalent of guys lying on online profiles to try to get laid. Both are assholes.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/15 12:14 PM
3

I don't believe that all red pill tactics are abusive. But I believe that some of them can be abusive, depending on how they are employed. Some red pill "tactics" are just general good advice: get fit, eat healthy, dress better, be confident, approach more women. These are all things that will improve your luck on the dating scene, and as far as I can tell, have no downsides. Other TRP tactics can be good under the right circumstances: for example, I believe that "abundance mentality" is a good …
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/15 12:07 PM
7

the question was "bluepillers and feminists: why does the manosphere bother you so much" I can't speak for all bluepillers/feminists, but for me at least, I suspect the reason why my dislike of TRP is so visceral is because their views on women are so hateful. I am a woman, therefore, these are their views on me.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/05/15 11:45 AM
5

that's like saying "the deep south was created by white people! all the black folks did was chill out in the tobacco fields. and now they demand equality? for what? everything they interact with was created by white people."
/r/PurplePillDebate16/05/15 11:42 AM
6

TRP makes claims about ALL women. I am a woman, therefore they are making claims about me.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/05/15 11:32 AM
5

how do red pill concepts help women?
/r/PurplePillDebate16/05/15 11:25 AM
17

TRP is about way more than just working out and becoming a better man, and you know it.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/05/15 02:29 AM
1

upvote for the GOT quote :)
/r/PurplePillDebate16/05/15 01:15 AM
10

If someone mistreats you, you should not stand for it. I don't anymore. But I did when I was younger. That's part of what bothers me so much about TRPers targeting very young women. young people are vulnerable. Boys and girls. It's unconscionable to prey upon the young.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/05/15 01:11 AM
14

change my mind? no. make me less quick to write them all off as individuals? yes. I sympathize with these men, I really do. I wish society had a better answer for them. But that doesn't make TRP any better than it is.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/05/15 12:48 AM
27

ladies and gentlemen, I give you, The Red Pill.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/05/15 12:46 AM
11

yes, I agree with you. And yes, it does make a difference to me that lots of men are drawn to the TRP community because they have struggled. I have a great deal of sympathy for these men, because I think our society is failing them. There are women out there who abuse men. There are men out there who are abused by women. I know some of them, and it makes my blood boil when I hear what those bitches did to them. One of the points on which TRP and I are in agreement is the fact that society needs …
/r/PurplePillDebate16/05/15 12:27 AM
8

Yeah, I worry about that a bit. But at least I'm better off than I was before I even knew about these things. You do realize that men interested in TRP and PUA are a miniscule subset of all men, right? I sure hope so.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/05/15 12:13 AM
27

this is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. You don't know me, how could you possibly say any of that is true?
/r/PurplePillDebate15/05/15 11:58 PM
27

I have a lot of problems with TRP from a logical/scientific/philosophical perspective, but honestly I think the real reason TRP elicits such a visceral response in me is because of the misogyny. The men on TRP hate me. They believe I am an inferior being, and they make it their life's goal to figure out ways to manipulate me, and girls like me, into letting them use me for sex. How would you feel about a place that was dedicated to talking about how horrible and inferior you are, and to giving p…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/05/15 11:41 PM
5

I don't really identify as blue pill, but I'll take a stab at your questions anyway. Would you stick it out with a guy regardless of his many flaws that show weakness, even if someone more attractive physicialy and financially came along? Or would you trade up while rationalizing everything to be the man's fault? (AKA Hypergamy) No. When I fall in love, I fall hard. And when I'm in love, it wouldn't matter if Brad Pitt walked into the room and offered to marry me on the spot. There's no other gu…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/05/15 09:14 PM
3

I have nothing against anyone choosing to live a certain way. What pisses me off about TRP and RPW is that they claim it is the best way to live, and the only way to have a happy, successful relationship. As for what I would prefer instead, personally, I have no interest in being subordinate in a romantic relationship. Except maybe in the bedroom sometimes when we're in the mood for that sort of thing :). I want an equal partner - someone I can journey alongside with, not behind.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/05/15 08:27 PM
2

If you didn't shame women for it then maybe it wouldn't be so difficult. LOL! I've often thought that TRPers are sort of shooting themselves in the foot with their conflicting philosophies. On the one hand, they want to have as much sex as possible, and on the other they shame women for having sex. In reality, if society stopped shaming women for having sex, everyone (TRPers included) would probably get laid a lot more.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/05/15 08:09 PM
3

It sounds to me like there is a big disparity between the sex drives of the man and the woman described in these stories. And in this case, my sympathy goes entirely to the man. Even though the woman may not have realized she was doing anything wrong, she gave her future husband the impression that she enjoys sex more than she does. This was dishonest. For many people, sex is a huge part of a relationship or a marriage, and I think it's unfair for anyone, male or female, to downplay it's importa…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/05/15 07:33 PM
1

I'd tell him to find someone else to fuck and to be discrete about it. He really shouldn't do this without his wife's consent. After all, they are married, and monogamy is part of the marriage contract. But if she isn't interested in sex, perhaps she will be fine with him having sex with other women. If she refuses to consent to an open marriage but also refuses to have sex with him, then unfortunately his only real choices are to leave, or live in a sexless marriage.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/05/15 07:18 PM
1

because those men are often being dismissed as viable sexual partners You know who else is dismissed as viable sexual partners? ugly women. fat women. Why is it fine to dismiss these women as sexual partners but somehow not ok to dismiss men as sexual partners? Why is a girl who doesn't want to sleep with a guy a horrible person, but a guy who doesn't want to sleep with a fat girl is just following his desires? TRP is always vilifying feminists for trying to redefine attractiveness, but aren't y…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/05/15 06:31 PM
0

Every guy who vilifies a woman for "friend zoning him" is falling into this category to some degree. Otherwise why would he be so mad at her? I'm not talking about situations in which the woman actively used his attractedness to manipulate him. I'm taking about your run-of-the-mill guy-girl friendships.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/05/15 05:08 PM
3

Definitely a turn off when guys boast about it. Comes off as super insecure. That being said, I don't actually care too much how many women a guy has slept with. For me, it's more important to know his attitude towards women and towards sex with women. A guy who has slept with 20 girls because he dates, has had several LTRs, maybe one or two ONSs mixed in doesn't bother me in the slightest. A guy who hits the bars every weekend looking for a new random for a meaningless hookup is not my kind of …
/r/PurplePillDebate15/05/15 12:23 PM
0

If I view myself as nice, and act nice, I won't view niceness for sex as a direct exchange (if I did, I wouldn't be nice) If I view niceness for sex as a direct exchange I'd be an asshole, and thus wouldn't be nice and would be unlikely to view myself as nice You assume they are self aware. They're not. If you ask them "do you view niceness for sex as a direct exchange?" They would say no. But they still behave as if it were. I'm not talking about the guys who are wondering why they are still si…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/15 10:05 PM
1

If culture is an expression of biology, then how come cultures vary so significantly across the globe? How do you explain matriarchal societies like the Mosuo women existing alongside patriarchal ones? There is a huge amount of cultural diversity which either means that a) culture is separate from biology or b) biology is very flexible, allowing for a multitude of cultural expressions. You have argued here both that biology is inflexible (women only like tall men, look for a single mate etc.), a…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/15 08:52 PM
1

we know what early human mating patterns looked like because we are returning to those patterns. I don't think nearly enough time has passed for us to claim that we are returning to early human mating patterns. You are making some huge assumptions, not least of which being that culture has played no role in any of these behaviors.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/15 07:24 PM
1

I'm afraid you misunderstood my comment. I wasn't trying to imply that all nice guys are like this. Rather, I was providing a description of the "misogynistic nice guy" - a guy who claims to be, and believes he is, nice, when in fact he is an asshole. And believe me, they do exist.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/15 07:21 PM
2

Again, I think you place too much emphasis on biology. The evidence just isn't there. the idea that women are biologically programmed to look for a single mate - that's just a theory. And there are other theories, like in this book. Their thesis is that early humans were polyamorous, like bonobos, and monogamy came later. edit: I'm not disagreeing that biology plays a role. Just in how big that role is.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/15 07:14 PM
1

I think you and I are mostly in agreement, although I don't believe so much in the gender differences aspect. I think all people, male and female, desire a quality mate and all people, male and female, will struggle on occasion with the desire to "trade up." After all, what is the 55 year old CEO dropping his "starter wife" for the 22 year old secretary but an example of hypergamy?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/15 06:58 PM
1

I don't disagree with what you're saying per say, but I do think you are giving biology too much credit and underestimating the power of social conditioning. I think it's perfectly conceivable that at some point in the future, a man's career prospects or education will have the same impact on his desirability to women as those same characteristics have on a woman's desirability to men. Also, I don't think "looking for a high quality mate" is the same thing as hypergamy. Hypergamy, the way TRP de…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/15 06:42 PM
2

To use your chicken and egg analogy, humans evolved before things like education/careers/money were invented, so how can you say we are biologically hardwired to feel anything about education/careers/money? If anything, I'd say we are hardwired to look for a quality mate. But what constitutes quality is an ever changing mark.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/15 06:24 PM
0

I don't follow. Can you explain what you mean by this?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/15 06:02 PM
3

This is where I disagree with red pill philosophy - I don't think there is any evidence that this preference is biologically hardwired. It is completely plausible that it is entirely the result of social conditioning.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/15 06:01 PM
8

My thoughts on this: There's nothing wrong with living your life this way. It's one way to live your life. But it's crazy to say that this is the best or the only way for a woman to live her life. For starters? What if you don't meet someone you want to marry before you're 22? what if you don't want to be a stay at home mom for 15 years? what if you want to go to college right away because you enjoy it, not just to get a better career? what if you are attracted to men your own age and don't want…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/15 03:33 PM
0

I think the best description of the misogynistic "nice guy" is a guy who thinks that being nice to a girl, or doing nice things for her, entitles him to sex. Then he gets angry at the girl if she doesn't give him sex, because in his mind, he already "paid" (in niceness) and now she's reneging on her end of the bargain. In reality, the girl never asked him for anything and even if she had, him giving it to her doesn't automatically entitle him to sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/15 03:19 PM
2

I agree with you about women needing to change their expectations regarding degree/occupation in men. I think this is leftover from days when women couldn't have their own careers and support themselves. They internalized the idea that they needed to marry a man with a career equal to or better than their fathers if they wanted to maintain the standard of living they were used to. Now that women can get degrees and have careers of their own, the need to find a "breadwinner" is no longer present …
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/15 02:23 PM
11

That's an interesting question. I'd never noticed that before, but you're right - you typically don't see as many women as men leaning libertarian. One possible explanation is that women are taught to be nurturing, while men are taught to be self-sufficient. Libertarianism is not a nurturing philosophy, so perhaps that it wht it doesn't appeal so much to women?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/15 02:15 PM
1

Nope. I'm not convinced. I don't believe that TRP is a self-correcting system. That idea is not congruent with the majority of what I have seen and read on TRP. And nothing you have said so far convinces me of anything other than that there are 1 or 2 instances out of hundreds in which a non-TRP dogmatic comment makes it to the top of the list.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/15 03:30 PM
1

the problem with this debate is that you and I are really just comparing impressions. My impression based on the FRs I've read on TRP is that a) the majority of them are just guys bragging about getting laid and b) when the poster does ask for advice, the comments they get in response unfailingly adhere to TRP dogma: "be more alpha" etc. etc. I've never seen anyone on TRP question whether a strategy actually works, only whether the person in the FR applied it correctly. Your impression is, appar…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/15 03:07 PM
1

FRs are examples of TRP strategy in action, but they are not a self-correcting mechanism because the only suggestions TRPers are going to make are ones which conform to the TRP philosophy. If someone posts an FR saying "I tried this and it didn't work, what should I do?" the only advice they are going to get is advice that is TRP sanctioned. So the theory self-perpetuates rather than self-corrects.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/15 02:50 PM
1

1) Are "error correction systems" inherently superior to "big hat systems" Yes, they are. 2) Does RP have a functioning, but not perfect, error correction system ? No, it doesn't. In my opinion, TRP falls under the "Big Hat System" category. The mods ban anyone who doesn't agree with the established dogma. FRs reinforce the established dogma because they only describe situations in which the strategies work. No one (that I have ever seen) posts an FR about how a TRP strategy didn't work (and if …
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/15 02:06 PM
4

do you think societies should be worried about the low fertility rates ? Quite the opposite. The world's population is growing exponentially, and it's a big, big problem. At some point in the not too distant future we're going to run out of food, and shit's going to really hit the fan. People need to stop having so many babies!
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/15 01:08 PM
12

This is not your problem. No, but it can be scary. Pissing off a drunk guy in a bar can be dangerous, especially if you're on your own.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 10:57 PM
5

that sounds great in theory, but in reality, when you say "ok you can buy me a drink, but just so you know, I'm not having sex with you tonight" guys tend to get offended. It's an awkward situation. My default is to just refuse if anyone offers to buy me a drink. But i have accepted once or twice in the past...after all, it's a free drink.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 10:25 PM
4

Some guys are specifically turned off by women who make the first move. they think it's "unfeminine."
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 09:39 PM
4

What can women do so that men will be happy ? ugh, I have no idea. if you figure it out, let me know. I'm beginning to suspect that the natural state of male/female relations is discord.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 09:35 PM
0

men do not hate women sure could've fooled me. Most folks over on TRP act like they'd gladly line every woman on the planet up in front of a firing squad.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 09:32 PM
11

I could get on board with this :). I don't want a free pass. Although I will admit, I have used it on occasion. It's hard to turn down free stuff. And you guys have to understand, when you're a moderately attractive girl, guys fall over themselves to buy you drinks. They absolutely insist. Can you really blame us for letting them?
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 09:20 PM
1

Why should men not hate women? This is a silly question. You might as well ask "why shouldn't I hate jews? or blacks? or gays? or people with prescription glasses?" Now, if you were asking "why shouldn't I hate this particular woman who treated me like crap," that would be a different matter.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 09:12 PM
-1

the male equivalent of these isn't lying, it's man-scaping, wearing expensive suits, cologne etc.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 12:57 PM
0

If she wants to have a husband and children, obviously, it's part of their goal. You may see it as compromising, but people know that money can't buy happiness, and the yearning for connection is rather apparent. My point was that men don't have to make these compromises - they can focus on their careers in their 20s and get married and have kids in their 30s, but when women do that society vilifies them.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 12:38 PM
1

You've pointed out some important flaws in VAWA, and in how our society handles some rape accusations. But does that mean we shouldn't continue to try to improve the way our society deals with rape? the fact is, rape remains an under-reported crime. And most perpetrators never see the inside of a jail cell. Rather than say "VAWA is horrible, Feminists SUCK" why not acknowledge what they are trying to do, and point out the ways in which they are failing? Case in point, a few days ago, a guy took …
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 12:36 PM
0

Except when she is being bullied by feminists for making that choice. See Women Against Feminism for plenty of examples. That's terrible. your girlfriend has my complete sympathy. No one should be bullied for living the way they want to live. If by a man having a family you mean he's absent most of the time while someone else looks after the kids and the house then women can have that too - they just need to marry a man whose career aspirations are lower than their own and is willing to be the h…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 12:30 PM
1

forgot that one. make it 4)
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 12:26 PM
-2

Women don't have to have children. It is a choice. Yes, but if a woman wants children, she shouldn't have to give up a career to have them. Men don't have to give up their careers if they want children.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/15 10:45 PM
-1

A woman who genuinely wants to be a stay at home mom is achieving her goals. A woman who picks one career instead of the one she really wants because she believes its the only way she can have a husband and kids is compromising her goals. This happens way more often then you might think - young women compromise their goals because they've been told that if they don't, they won't be able to find a husband or have children or live a full life. To me, feminism is about making it possible for women …
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/15 10:43 PM
-2

Ironically you as a woman will be more likely to get a shorter sentence, than a man. That is actual sexism right there. I agree. Or if you read the news there was a female "firefighter" who will become a firefighter even though she didn't pass the physical test. yeah, that's shitty. Women earn less due to their OWN choices. This is where social attitudes and pressures on women come in. Society uses the biological clock as a weapon against women, pressuring them to spend their early twenties havi…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/15 08:21 PM
0

The Violence Against Women Act? You're against holding rapists accountable for their crimes and protecting victims? What's Duluth?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/15 08:18 PM
-2

and here I thought we were having a real discussion.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/15 08:11 PM
-1

So what, specifically, do modern feminists want? Because I consider myself a modern feminist, and I want these things. Can you point me to an actual manifesto or document that outlines this? Or is it just your own opinion about what feminists want?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/15 08:10 PM
-1

Also what has Congress done for male victims of rape and spousal abuse? Male homeless and highschool dropouts. Male prisoners. Male suicides and drug addicts? Thats why there are advocacy groups that deal with homelessness, prisoners, suicide and drug addiction. I agree with you about male rape - we as a society need to start taking male rape more seriously and providing support and advocacy for victims.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/15 08:09 PM
0

If you could flip a switch and have it so that women are at worst equal to men, but better off in other areas, would you call that equality? No, I wouldn't. I can't speak for all feminists, but personally when I say equality, I mean equality. that means that I as a woman should have all the same rights, opportunities and responsibilities as men. I believe women should be drafted. I believe in splitting the check on the first date. I think that if women are allowed to take maternity leave, men sh…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/15 07:58 PM
-2

perhaps they should amend their slogan.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/15 07:56 PM
-2

I don't think the NAACP is trying to get rights for black people that white people don't also have. And I don't think feminism is trying to get rights for women that men don't have. But yes, feminism is about the advancement of women, not men. I didn't realize they claimed otherwise. I think the assumption is that white, heterosexual men are doing just fine on their own. They don't need a special group to secure their rights. They have congress for that.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/15 07:52 PM
0

no, but you do see the NAACP
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/15 07:42 PM
-2

I think people here are conflating "equality" with "advocating for both male and female rights." I agree completely that feminism is unconcerned with men's rights. But it is still accurate to say that their ultimate goal is equality. they want to bring men and women to a place that is equal.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/15 07:41 PM
0

There is still inequality based on gender. Just like there is still discrimination based on race. The battle is not over.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/15 06:54 PM
-1

I think that's an overly simplistic way of looking at things. To go back to the race example, there are no more laws on the books that prevent blacks from having the same rights as whites, and yet inequality still persists. Black youth are more likely to go to prison for drugs, even though they are not more likely to actually use drugs. Blacks are less likely to be hired for jobs even if they are equally qualified. I could go on and on. In the same vein, I can't think specifically of any rights …
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/15 06:53 PM
-2

and we have feminism to thank for that.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/15 06:09 PM
-1

I don't know if I agree that feminism is trying to give women an advantage over men. If they are, then that's not something I want anything to do with.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/15 02:46 PM
0

No, it would be more like criticizing the civil rights movement for not caring about issues faced by Latinos or Asians. That's not an accurate comparison. The basis for feminism is that men and women are not treated equally in society. The basis for civil rights is that whites and non-whites are not treated equally in society.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/15 01:44 PM
5

Criticizing feminism for not caring about issues faced by men is like criticizing the civil rights movement for not caring about issues faced by whites. The idea behind both movements is that a sub-group within society (women, blacks) do have have the same rights as others (men, whites). These movements seek equality in that they want these subgroups to have the same rights as the majority.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/15 01:15 PM
6

I don't think it's amoral to not be honest, I think it's IMMORAL. You are lying to them because you suspect if you were honest with them, they wouldn't give you what you want. This is the definition of deceitfulness. Be honest, and let them choose for themselves. If they don't want the type of relationship you want, find someone who does.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/15 11:49 AM
3

My opinion: when it comes to ONSs, all bets are off. It's only one night, so who cares? When it comes to LTRs, anything more than a 4 year age difference (in either direction, with either partner being significantly older/younger than the other) is a red flag for me. It makes me think something is a little off. There are a lot of reasons why dating someone much younger or much older can lead to problems. There is the power differential obviously, but even beyond that, there are differences in ex…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/15 11:40 AM
2

yeah, but in between 8000 years ago and today, it was easier.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/15 11:57 PM
0

given enough time and persuasion sounds hot.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/15 11:42 PM
5

It's not particularly rare for people to not get to serious relationships until their 20s especially if they have their heads on straight I know lots of wonderful girls who fit this description. And all of them, to a man (er, woman), have low sex drives. I'm not saying you can't find a girl in her 20s who is a virgin. it's the combination of virgin+horndog that I find relatively implausible.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/15 11:40 PM
6

Most sexual relationships tend to start off with vanilla sex and then the guy through assertive suggestiveness can make a girl submit to all his other kinks. or, she leaves you for someone she's more sexually compatible with.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/15 11:26 PM
6

Lol I'm younger than you probably think in that case, go for it Or she's not in the relationship or situation she thinks sex is suitable or advantageous for her and she's never been in one? see point #1 So what? So, she'll probably take issue with you if you follow the typical TRP "spin as many plates as possible until you're 40 and then marry a 19 yo virgin" philosophy.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/15 11:23 PM
2

fair enough.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/15 11:17 PM
6

if a girl is a virgin, it probably means 1 of 3 things: 1) she's young. Stop being a creep and let her date guys her own age. 2) she's not that interested in sex. 3) she's very religious, and is probably looking for someone who shares her beliefs.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/15 11:16 PM
1

and yet, they still want to marry virgins.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/15 10:59 PM
4

tru dat. But making a few mistakes before heading down the alter and spinning plates like it's your job until you're 35 are two different things..
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/15 10:56 PM
6

The girl may have been able to wait til marriage due to a low sex drive. Or, maybe she waited until marriage for religious reasons. In that case, won't she be looking for a partner who shares here religious beliefs and is waiting until marriage as well?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/15 10:52 PM
5

Maybe she won't want to please him. Maybe she's a virgin because sex doesn't really interest her. How would either of them know?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/15 10:41 PM
1

Virgin women can learn to love and enjoy sex just like everybody else. Absolutely! But it may take a little time. Going from virgin to full on kink would be a rough ride if you take it too fast.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/15 10:36 PM
1

I've never heard them say need They say this all the time. "women need men more than men need women. Men don't need women, men need sex." some poster once told HappilySingleWoman that she couldn't possibly be happy because only bachelors are happy - single women can't be happy
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/15 10:09 PM
12

rape fantasy =/= rape. edit: I'm ok with it as long as every guy who rapes me is Brad Pitt. and he's wearing his Troy costume. And I get to control everything he says and does.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/15 09:53 PM
6

Yeah. I think this is a big part of it. The fact is, for hundreds of years men had it easy in the dating market. Want a wife? Just go ask some girl's father, show that you can feed her and she's yours. Or don't even get the father involved, it's not like she can support herself on her own with no job and no income, so what are her options? Now the rules have changed. Women don't need men to provide for them anymore. Now, if a guy wants a girl, he can't have her unless she wants him back. Game ch…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/15 09:51 PM
16

Rape is only assault because feminists have taught women to fight back against their "attackers" that's like saying theft is only a crime because feminists have taught people to want to keep their stuff.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/15 09:37 PM
17

LOL!!!! Are you trolling? Seriously, this is a troll right? On the off chance you're not trolling, I think there are some flaws in your argument. First, you come straight out and say that rape is harmful if you define men and women as 100% equal. I think in the "deserves to avoid bodily harm" department, most people, even TRPers, would agree that yes, men and women have an equal right not to be assaulted. "For most men, rape is the only way they could possibly ever have sex." Not true. Even assu…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/15 09:18 PM
1

I didn't mean it that way at all. I apologize if I unintentionally offended anyone. I certainly did not mean to imply that sexual orientation was something you can "grow out of." The poster describes masturbating and enjoying erotica, which makes me think that she might not actually be asexual, she just may not enjoy the act of heterosexual intercourse at this point in time. i was the same way when I was 19 - actual, penis-in-vagina sex just didn't do it for me. But that changed as I got older. …
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/15 03:22 PM
1

actually, men are less likely than women to attempt suicide. But they are more likely to actually die by suicide. So, less likely to try, more likely to succeed.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/15 11:30 PM
1

if I remember correctly from your previous posts, you're young (19?). Give it time, sex gets better as you age!
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/15 11:15 PM
3

yep. so true. i used to get so frustrated with my below-average-attractive guy friends in high school because they insisted on holding out for the hot 10/10 blonde model, when that cute, nerdy, slightly overweight girl over there was totally into them. Be realistic people!! or stay virgins. your choice.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/15 10:48 PM
4

Personally, I'm a fan of the equal partnership. I don't want to lead or be led. I want a partner to walk side by side with. I think the trope of men leading women is a remnant of the old-fashioned idea that women are like children, in need of a strong hand and guidance. I know TRPers still buy into this idea, but personally I think it's bullshit.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/15 10:28 PM
1

I mean, you can say that obviously, but I can tell you that hasn't been my experience at all. I have noticed 0 difference over the past 10 years in the number or 'quality' (i hate using that word to refer to a human being) of guys who hit on me. If anything, the quality has gone up because my peers are older and most of them have their shit together. Most of the guys I know wouldn't want to date a 22 year old girl. I'm sure they wouldn't pass up the chance to sleep with one, but pretty much ever…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/15 07:12 PM
2

Your decision to get older before snagging the right guy worsens your position in the SMP with every day that passes. I disagree. I don't believe that a woman's value is limited entirely to her physical appearance. And what's more, in my experience, not all men believe that either. And any man who does is not someone I would want to date anyway.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/15 06:58 PM
5

you misunderstand. The option, in this case, is dating a man I don't want to date. that would be like saying that TRPers are limiting their options by not dating fat women. They don't want to have sex with fat women, and I don't want to date shallow, appearance-obsessed men.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/15 06:36 PM
2

I wasn't suggesting that men, or anyone for that matter, should ignore their feelings concerning who they are attracted to. I was saying that the type of person who only cares about looks is not someone I'd be interested in dating.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/15 06:35 PM
3

If you're not in a poly relationship, then you are having casual sex. Who women choose to have casual sex with and who they choose to date are often two different things. I've known lots of girls who hook up with an older guy for the novelty of the experience, but they'd really rather date someone their own age. In my experience, relationships with very large age gaps (e.g. 26 yo girl, 40 yo guy), either don't work out long term, or they work out in spite of the age gap, not because of it. The o…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/15 06:30 PM
8

There are men like this, but those aren't the men I'm interested in dating. A man who cares solely for a woman's attractiveness is not looking to actually date a woman, he's looking to a) borrow a vagina or b) impress other men. My own personal experience has taught me that there are plenty of men who are not like this.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/15 02:14 PM
11

I suspect that TRP theories are a sort of psychological catharsis for angry men who have been unsuccessful with women. They get off on imagining themselves rejecting the 30 year old version of the 20 year old girl who wouldn't sleep with them. In reality, many women are beautiful well into their 30s and beyond, and they have the added benefit of being more mature, more educated and more experienced, which makes them attractive to many (non-TRP) men. Fertility does not actually begin to decline u…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/15 12:59 PM
1

Thanks for posting. I've had similar thoughts about TRP, and you described it very nicely.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/15 12:56 PM
3

According to TRP, women have a dual mating strategy: Alpha fucks, beta bucks. What this woman is doing seems to me like an extreme case of beta bucks, so according to TRP, it's "natural."
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/15 11:50 AM
0

This study (and others) points to the fact that sluts are awful LTR's. No, it doesn't. What this study does suggest is that there may be a small but statistically significant decrease in marital quality as measured by the 4-item dyadic adjustment scale associated with increasing partner count, and that this association may be moderated by gender. You (not the study) are the one saying "sluts are awful LTRs" you suck at science.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/15 02:59 AM
1

Alright then. I guess this ends with neither one of us taking the other seriously.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/15 02:53 AM
1

oh, ok so the study was conducted in Denver. Were the participants also living in Denver? Regardless, I think it would be interesting to compare results from America to results from a more sexually open country.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/15 02:51 AM
1

You claim you have supporting evidence, then you send me a link to a post with more links to blogs with, you claim, studies somewhere buried inside them that support your claim. If this evidence does in fact exist, you've made it so difficult to find that it almost precludes anyone taking it seriously. If you would like me to evaluate this evidence, it would be useful for you to provide a more accessible summary. Perhaps create an evidence table with columns for the study, the date of publicatio…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/15 02:47 AM
1

oh, ok. Well, in that case, all of my previous points stand: these results need to be replicated in a different sample with a different measure. Alone, they are simply a piece of evidence. One piece of evidence doesn't prove anything. One thing that is impossible to tease out from this study is whether, if this effect is true, it is due to the actual behavior of sleeping with multiple men, or whether it's due to cultural norms surrounding promiscuity. This study was conducted in virginia, so I'm…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/15 02:40 AM
1

Personally, I don't find blog posts by markedly biased individuals to be very convincing. I think the article you posted first was far more convincing, so good for you for leading with that.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/15 02:32 AM
3

how convenient that when women do it, it's greed, but when men do it it's "natural instinct."
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/15 02:19 AM
0

It's the best study we have so far. That's fine. But in that case, it would be more honest of you (the plural you - I'm not trying to single you out personally) to present this idea as a theory with some supporting evidence rather than as a fact. As for the inflection points, could you point me towards the actual article? I can't evaluate the information presented in that graph without knowing where it came from. What was the sample size? Where was the data collected? What other variables were c…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/15 02:11 AM
-1

This is the study that gets pointed to every time TRPers want to justify their "high partner count affects women but not men" view. So I finally bit the bullet and actually read this study. For those of you who are interested, here is my review: After skimming through the methods and results sections, I have to say, the methodology isn't that bad. In particular, I like the fact that they used a prospective design, meaning they recruited participants who were unmarried (i.e., had not experienced …
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/15 01:42 AM
1

I agree that the past matters. where I differ from TRPers is that they seem to think the past only matters if you're a woman. As far as they are concerned, MEN can do whatever they want with whomever they want without it affecting their worth or desirability, "because evolution."
/r/PurplePillDebate03/05/15 11:25 PM
3

This girl is pretty much the female equivalent of a TRPer. "So, build yourself, know yourself, then make it known that you know what you have and that there are others if he can’t keep up. Be a little bold and brave, you have everything to gain. If the guy leaves, fuck him, he wasn’t worth your time anyway and when he comes crawling back, shove it in his face." Seriously, this is so much like TRP its uncanny. edit: yes I do think they are equally bad. They aren't even really different things - i…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/05/15 11:21 PM
1

You're allowed to prefer anything you want. The point isn't so much that you (or maybe not you, but other people on TRP) have a preference for women with low partner counts, it's that they assign value based on it. They don't just think women with high partner counts are not their type, they think they are of low value. And yet they believe their own partner count has no effect on their value. There is a difference between a fat guy who prefers to date skinny women, and a fat guy who thinks all …
/r/PurplePillDebate02/05/15 10:33 PM
1

biological forces seem much more deterministic and resistant to change than social forces.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/15 07:20 PM
1

primae noctis is the (apparently mythical) practice of lords having sex with peasant women on the night of their wedding. i was talking more generally about high status men being allowed to have sex with low status women. Another example would be slave owners being allowed to have sex (consensual or otherwise) with their slaves.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/15 12:33 PM
1

I wasn't specifically referring to primae noctis.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/15 12:00 PM
2

The equivalent to a women who likes tall guys is a man who is especially attracted to red heads, or who likes tall woman. It's just a preference for a particular physical feature. There are women who prefer short men, just as there are men who prefer fat women. Partner count is not a physical feature, it's a feature of someone's history. If the idea of dating a women who has been with other men bothers you to such an extreme that you refuse to date a woman who isn't a virgin, it isn't because of…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/15 11:51 AM
1

so you want someone who has not had sex with anyone else, but who is willing to have sex with you before marriage. and does it bother you that if everything is not in order and you guys break up, you've essentially ruined her (because she's no longer a virgin)?
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/15 01:52 AM
1

Haha yeah, I know. I mean, I'm sure Sean Connery could get any girl he wants, but the average 35 year old man is going to have a much harder time getting a 24 year old girlfriend than the average 24-25 year old man. Most girls date guys around their own age. I do know one couple where the guy is 40 and the girl is 26, but he is GORGEOUS.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/15 01:48 AM
1

The older guys were hoovering them up. Actually, most women prefer to date people their own age.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/15 01:46 AM
5

what we currently have in this country is 'weak' or 'thin' democracy. There is an idea in political science called strong democracy, which I personally find very appealing.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/15 01:40 AM
2

I honestly don't know. I think the thrust of scientific evidence is pointing to the fact that men and women are indeed different on many levels. How that applies to sexual behavior is unclear, to me at least. It's so hard to tease apart what's nature and what's nurture. I wouldn't put too much stock in the 'hypergamy' concept. even if you assume it's true (and i'm not saying it is), it could just as easily be caused by social forces (e.g., peer and family pressure for girls to get the highest st…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/15 01:35 AM
2

Yes, I think you should care if they are mentally ready for sexual experiences. I think the mental state of the person you want to sleep with should always be of concern, because they are a person. This does not mean you can't have sex with 18 year olds, it means that you are right to be conscious of the fact that these are very young girls who may or may not be mentally ready for sexual experiences. If she pursues you for sex, then I think it's safe to say she is ready for it. But if you are th…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/15 01:25 AM
1

rape has been considered a crime for a very long time. Yes, but our conceptions of what constitutes rape have changed drastically. It used to not be considered rape for an aristocrat to have sex (consensual or otherwise) with his serfs. And not too long ago it was not rape if a husband forced his wife to have sex with him. Even today, not all societies agree on what is and what isn't rape.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/15 01:12 AM
1

I think that's a completely valid point. But I would argue that this has less to do with partner count and more to do with practicing safe sex. I have a friend who got genital herpes before he lost his virginity. Low partner count is no guarantee.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/15 10:40 PM
1

I hate to say it, but it's entirely possible to become involved with someone who is going to fuck up your life. And you may never see it coming. You can tell yourself that selecting a woman based on the number of sexual partners she has had will protect you from this but sadly, it will not. A virgin can fuck with your head just as easily as a girl who's slept with 15 men. Frankly, I think terpers who want women with low (or non-existent) partner counts are like little boys who "don't want other …
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/15 10:27 PM
1

I know it may not seem like it now, but college is such a short part of your life. Plenty of people do things in college because they want to explore, or because they are reacting to the way they were brought up, or the way things were in high school, or because they feel like they need to have those sorts of experiences so they never wonder what they were missing. I know this is anecdotal, but the most promiscuous girl I knew in college was the first of all my group of friends to settle down. S…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/15 10:22 PM
0

lets say for example that a girl looses her virginity at 18. Lets say she has a couple ONS's in college, because she's young and crazy, and one more relationship before she graduates. Now her number is up to 4 and she's 22. Now she's done with one night stands, and is interested in meeting men, so she dates. Say she dates an average of 2 men per year. These relationships don't work out, so she's single at 30, and her partner count is up to 4 + 2*8=22 men. Is this girl a slut? Even if you think s…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/15 10:09 PM
1

you're 20 years old. How could you possibly know with will never be LTR material for you?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/15 10:05 PM
3

This. so much this. I think it's pretty much common knowledge among women that the gals TRP is talking about (those who will fuck anything that moves, have 100+ partner count by the age of 25) are mostly people with emotional or psychological issues. this is not the average woman. this is the extreme outlier.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/15 10:03 PM
2

sometimes I think involuntary celibacy has made some of the guys over in TRP go a little crazy. They become convinced that all the beautiful women they want to have sex with are out having crazy amounts of sex with all the guys they wish they could be like. I think on some level, they also feel like these women are doing it to spite them, personally. I don't know anyone who behaves the way TRPers say that ALL women behave.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/15 09:48 PM
5

no, I don't think accepting this makes you sexist. But telling a woman she can't do something just because she's a woman is sexist. Say that in order to join a weightlifting team, you have to be able to bench press an amount of weight that most women will not be able to bench press. But there are a few women, on the strong end of the distribution, who can. Should they not be allowed to join the team just because the average woman wouldn't be able to pass this test?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/15 09:39 PM
5

physical strength is not exclusive to men. Nor is anything else for that matter. I think what gets lost in the gender differences argument is the fact that characteristics/physical features follow a distribution. The means of the distributions for males and females might be different, but that doesn't mean that every woman is different from every man. For example, on average, men are taller than women. But some women are taller than some men. On average, men are physically stronger than women. B…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/15 09:35 PM
4

So are you saying that it is impossible to criticize TRP without being sexist against men? In other words, is there any criticism of TRP that you would listen to without attributing it to misandry?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/15 09:25 PM
1

I was thinking about this some more last night, and it occurred to me that at the heart of this question (for me, at least), is the difference between individual morality and societal morality. If you are walking down the street and you see a man who says he is hungry and needs a few dollars so he can get something to eat, are you morally obligated to give it to him? No, I don't think so, but it's very nice and generous of you if you do. However does society have a moral obligation to see that c…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/15 11:23 AM
2

I think what you're getting at here is that situations are infinitely variable and complex, and in that I totally agree. And the nice thing about this concept of morality is that it's infinitely adaptable. A certain outcome may be more or less moral depending on the specifics of the circumstance. the important piece is the ultimate goal: to maximize wellbeing.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/15 01:37 AM
1

I guess it comes down to ideas about basic human rights - it is not the FAer's right, as a human being, to fuck the VS model (at least not in my opinion), but I believe (you can disagree of course) that in a society with great abundance such as ours, people have a right to food, clothing, shelter, education and health care. Also, redistributive taxation is not about going into peoples homes, taking their stuff and giving it to someone else. It is about we, as a society, deciding that we want thi…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/15 01:28 AM
1

Well, you're making a lot of assumptions here. first of all, you're assuming that not getting money is net neutral for the mother and the child. This might be the case if the mother is well-educated and has a good paying job, or if she has a family that can help support her. If she isn't/doesn't, she may be unable to support herself and her child/children without the child support payments, in which case this would definitely constitute a negative for these individuals. But also consider it on a…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/15 01:22 AM
2

clearly.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/15 01:13 AM
1

we're getting into the realm of my personal opinion here. I cannot speak for Sam Harris, the author of the moral landscape, but I would say that a country with freedom of speech is maximizing the wellbeing of its citizens more than a country which "protects" it's citizens from disturbing opinions or ideas. In other words, I'm ok with Fred Phelps and neo nazis having the right to say whatever they please, partly because that is the price we pay for everyone else having the right to express themse…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/15 01:04 AM
1

read my post with the numbers. that seemed to clarify it for the other guy.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/15 12:56 AM
1

see my post with the numbers. that seemed to clarify it for the other guy.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/15 12:53 AM
0

haven't you ever heard of a thought experiment?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/15 12:53 AM
1

I don't think it is fair to say that the VS model is being immoral. Say your mother wants you to spend 4 hours explaining C++ to you and the idea makes you want to throw up. Are you being immoral by saying no? I don't think so. Would it be super nice of you to swallow your vomit and spend the next 4 hours of your life trying to get your mother to understand the basics of computer programing? Sure. Honestly, sometimes I read incel stories and I think to myself "well jeez, I'll fuck you if it real…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/15 12:47 AM
2

Being forcefully held down in bed by the muscular CEO of a Fortune 500 company does not evoke this fear. Um, yeah it might. Just as being grabbed by a stranger in the bushes might be some girls fantasy. Rape has nothing to do with the SMV of the man, it has EVERYTHING to do with the consent of the woman.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/15 12:33 AM
1

I don't think that women employ these tactics with impunity, although I can understand how it might seem that way, depending on your experiences. I certainly agree that in terms of media and academic discourse, no one focuses on the relationship violence committed by women. Hopefully that will change with time. Do not mistake my sympathy for men who have been abused by women for an endorsement of TRP. Just because someone has been hurt does not make it ok for them to go hurt someone else.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/15 12:30 AM
1

yep, you got it.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/15 12:23 AM
2

let me put it simply for you: if a girls asks you to ravish her, this is not rape. If you rape a girl, you will go to jail because this is a crime. I'll say it again. No woman wants to be raped. Women may want to be tied up, beaten, dominated, engage in rough sex, or play-act a scene in which they pretend to have non-consensual sex, but ALL OF THESE ARE CONSENSUAL AND THEREFORE NOT RAPE
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/15 12:22 AM
1

ok. say we let 5 FAers gang rape the victoria's secret model. They each have a well-being score of 10. Her score is -10 (assuming well-being follows a normal distribution with a mean of 0). The overall net wellbeing would be 10x5-10 = 40. Now lets say they don't get to gangbang the victoria's secret model. So now they all have wellbeing scores of 4. Her wellbeing score is 8 (because she's a victoria's secret model and I'm assuming they all lead charmed happy lives). The total well-being is now 4…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/15 12:19 AM
1

the net happiness is not relevant
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/15 12:16 AM
1

The most moral action is that which maximizes the wellbeing for every person involved, not the one which results in the greatest net wellbeing. I'm just repeating myself boys, give it a rest.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/15 12:12 AM
1

I do see the imbalance, purple_lock. And I agree with most of your points - I think it's a terrible injustice that society ignores the fucked up shit women do, or gives them a free pass. I believe strongly that anyone in a relationship, male or female, is responsible for the harm they do to their partner, and should avoid doing harm as much as possible. As Dan Savage says, campsite rules: do everything you can to leave your partner in as good or better condition as you found him/her. As for what…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/15 12:09 AM
1

The well-being of EVERYONE INDIVIDUAL PERSON isn't higher, but the well-being of EVERYONE INVOLVED is higher because the victoria's secret model has gone from negative well being to positive well-being, while the FAers have decreased from some well-being to slightly less well-being.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 11:55 PM
1

yes, but child support payments raise the well being of the mother and the children, making it more moral than a circumstance in which the father does not pay child support, in which case the father is happier but the mother and children are living in poverty. Think of it as a gradient, with situations being less moral and more moral, vs. moral or not moral.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 11:53 PM
1

from a utilitarian perspective, yes. The utilitarian perspective argues that the most moral outcomes is that which maximizes the total overall amount of well-being. So lots of ecstatic FAers who get to bang a victoria's secret model more than cancels out the presumed horror and disgust of the victoria's secret model. But I would argue that this is not the most moral outcome (because I am not a utilitarian). I would argue that the most moral outcome is the one which maximizes the well-being withi…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 11:44 PM
2

but not her. So this outcome is less moral than an outcome in which the well-being of all parties, including her, is maximized.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 11:34 PM
3

HAHA women want to be raped by a high SMV man? The very definition of rape is having sex with someone against their will. It is simply impossible for a woman to want to be raped, because if she wants it, it's consensual. Not to be confused with rape fantasies, which are 100% consensual and therefore not actually rape (hence the "fantasies" qualifier). This sort of thing actually bothers me less, because at least it's out there. When TRPers come out and say "rape is fine," they are exposing thems…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 11:33 PM
1

I'm not arguing that TRP is giving out tips on how to rape people. I am arguing that if you truly believe sexual strategy is amoral, then the logical extension of that belief is that rape (which is a sexual strategy) is not inherently wrong.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 11:27 PM
2

No, I would not. We can discuss the ways in which the current dating market is good/bad, but that seems like a discussion for another thread...
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 11:24 PM
2

You need to separate moral from right and wrong. you need to look up the definition of morality.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 11:22 PM
1

Well I have to hand it to you, SirNemisis, at least you are consistent.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 11:21 PM
2

This is the utilitarian argument, that the most moral outcome is the one which creates the most well-being for as many people as possible. In this argument, the suffering of the individual is alright if it leads to a greater benefit for a large number of people. the moral landscape argument is that the more moral course of action is that which maximizes the well-being of the actual people involved. So in your example, this would not be moral because while the men from r/foreveralone would presum…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 11:20 PM
0

Not to harp on details here, but TRP doesn't say "sexual strategy operating within the confines of legal and cultural norms of western society is amoral", it says "sexual strategy is amoral." You may be able to intuit the nuances of this, but I think there are a fair number of people on TRP who aren't.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 11:16 PM
1

This is a really excellent observation, and I think it deserves its own thread. I absolutely agree that a huge source of conflict in these purple pill debates is that red pillers tend to focus on what TRP says while non-terpers tend to focus on what TRP does. Personally, while there are certainly aspects of official TRP doctrine to which I object (oldest teenager in the house? Fuck you!), it is mostly the words and actions (or at least, described actions) of individuals who subscribe to the TPR …
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 11:10 PM
2

I am in favor of Sam Harris's argument that the moral course of action is that which maximizes the well-being of as many people as possible. From this perspective, 'moral' sexual strategies are those that maximize the wellbeing of everyone involved, male and female.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 11:06 PM
1

I agree. But I think an argument can also be made that actively promoting immoral acts, which I think TRP does, is also immoral
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 10:41 PM
0

Yes, it's my hypothetical example, so I get to assume that
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 10:40 PM
2

rape improves your odds of mating. Just look at Ghengis Khan. Does that make it ok?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 10:27 PM
-1

I don't think "sexual strategy is amoral" is in any way meant to suggest that literally nothing that can be done in pursuit of sex is immoral. I think you're both right and wrong with this: You're right that, in the vast majority of cases at least, individual TRP members do not believe that nothing done in pursuit of sex could be immoral. But I think the philosophy of TRP promotes this idea. Individual TRP members who would be horrified at the thought of raping a woman feel justified in engaging…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 10:19 PM
0

yes, you misunderstood. I was not comparing TRP to rape, I was posing a challenge to the premise that sexual strategy is amoral by pointing out that rape is a sexual strategy, and yet, as I'm sure most of us can agree, rape is most definitely immoral.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 10:09 PM
0

ok, I thought of one. Say someone finds a loophole that allows them to collect wellfare, food stamps, medicaid, all that stuff, even though they have plenty of money. They start a blog instructing people how to take advantage of that loophole. Now, you could argue that the instructions themselves are "amoral," since they are not necessarily advocating that people use these instructions to commit legal welfare fraud. But now lets say the blog is also full of posts from people talking about how th…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 09:52 PM
2

I cannot for the life of me wrap my head around how a person can say that I'm abusing a woman by indirectly suggesting that I have options. you're not. we've had this discussion in another thread, check it out: http://np.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/33prga/the_core_concepts_of_dread_game_negging_holding/
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 09:44 PM
-1

that's good to hear, but I was just using it as an example. Whats a good example of something that's obviously immoral but not illegal?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 09:32 PM
2

dread game is playing hard to get while looking fabulous Not the way TRPers do it
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 09:30 PM
-1

You could write a guide saying, "Here's how you destroy a woman's self esteem with subtle put downs and constantly making her feel like total shit" but I don't think anyone would find it interesting. oooh, I beg to differ. I think terpers would eat that shit up if they thought it would help them get laid. I would love to try it as an experiment - what do you say, CisWhiteMaelstrom, shall we see if you're right? edit: also, for the record, what you describe is playful teasing, not negging
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 09:26 PM
3

ok, so you and I agree that not all sexual strategies are amoral, meaning some sexual strategies (rape being the most obvious one) are wrong. But this opens the door for the argument that TRP-endorsed strategies such as negging and dread game are also wrong. the defense they usually fall back on is that "sexual strategy is amoral - it's neither right nor wrong." But we've just agreed that not all sexual strategies are amoral. So. All that being said, I believe strategies like negging and dread g…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 09:21 PM
2

haha. I don't know why that makes me chuckle, but it does.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 09:15 PM
1

hmm. good answer. But lets say that in addition to posting this physics lesson, you also have people posting about how they read this physics lesson and then they built this bomb and blew up the mall and it was SO AWESOME. And then you have more people posting comments about how great that person is, and how awesome what he did was. Couldn't this be seen as promoting the immoral behavior of blowing people up?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 09:14 PM
0

so in societies that do not punish people who commit rape, rape is still immoral. But rape is a sexual strategy. So doesn't this mean that sexual strategy is not amoral?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 09:11 PM
-1

Hmm. so from what I gather in your response, the "amoral" part of sexual strategy is in how it is presented, NOT in how it is applied. So by that logic, if TRP says "negging a girl will increase your chances of sleeping with her," the advice itself is amoral, but if someone applies it (i.e., actually negs a girl), he is doing something wrong?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 09:09 PM
-1

as decided by our society does this mean it's not inherently immoral?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 09:06 PM
0

I get the impression that TRP is saying "here is information on sexual strategy void of all moral context, you are free to do with it what you will". hmm. Fair enough. But isn't that sort of like posting directions for building a bomb on the internet and then saying "here you go guys, you can do with it what you want."
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 09:05 PM
0

wait, "treat her like a human being" is an arbitrary moral? that seems like pretty important one to me... if you can discard "arbitrary" morals, why not discard all morals? again, we are assuming there are no social or legal consequences. My question isn't whether rape is a good sexual strategy, it's whether TRPers believe rape is wrong.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 09:01 PM
-1

you can't do it, can you. You can't rationalize the idea that sexual strategy is amoral with the idea that rape is wrong.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 08:52 PM
-1

why? I thought sexual strategy was amoral.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 08:46 PM
-1

ok, maybe rape is a shitty strategy for the reasons you describe above. But what I'm asking is, is it wrong, as in immoral?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 08:46 PM
1

You misunderstand me. I am asking, if sexual strategy is amoral (meaning not concerned with right or wrong), then by definition rape, which is a sexual strategy, must not be right or wrong. If you reject the conclusion that rape is neither right nor wrong (as I think most people will), I posit that you must also reject the conclusion that sexual strategy is amoral. food for thought, terpers
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 08:38 PM
-1

sorry man. Wooing is the same thing as courtship. Still about marriage.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 08:19 PM
1

Yes and no. I would not (in bold to make sure no one misses it) argue that hurting someone's feelings is equivalent to rape, however I would argue that the difference between them is a matter of degree. Rape is obviously worse than hurting someone's feelings. But in both cases you are causing harm to the other person. The difference is in the amount and potentially the type (i.e. physical and mental vs. mental only) of harm. Edit: to be clear, we are not talking about hurting someone's feelings …
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 08:16 PM
2

Courtship is about getting married. TRP is actively against marriage. they discuss strategies for getting sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 08:11 PM
2

If I meet a girl who's slept with a lot of guys, it tells me she's probably impulsive and lacks restraint, because she had options and couldn't say no. You assume this, but it might not be the case. Perhaps she enjoys sex, and has made conscious, non-impulsive decisions to pursue sex for her own gratification. Perhaps she is interested in finding an LTR so she dates, but went through a few guys before she found the one for her?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 07:42 PM
11

I'm seeing women claiming it's not a mans business if she slept with 50+ guys in her prime and is settling down with him now that her bags are starting to fall. I'm surprised that women are claiming this isn't a man's business - it seems to me like it's absolutely a man's business and that he has every right to avoid getting into a relationship with someone who is just "settling." I do, however, take issue with a couple of things in your post here: First, the idea that "the average woman wants t…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 06:19 PM
1

He's a baysian statistician, but he wrote a book that's surprisingly accessible. Baysian statistics is all about prediction.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 05:59 PM
1

my personal justification for TRP is that the predictions it makes about how my experiences will change tend to be extremely accurate. Fair enough. Nate Silver would approve :)
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 05:51 PM
7

evo psych isn't being criticized by SJWs for being sexist. Or I don't know, maybe it is, but what I'm talking about is other scientists criticizing evo psych because it's shitty. There is no social agenda. It's just bad science. Edit: I'm thinking specifically of Stephen J. Gould (sadly deceased) and PZ Myers.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 05:32 PM
6

Evo psych is part of the left-wing dominated education system. As you point out, evolution itself (for which there are mountains of empirical evidence) is not especially favored by the political right, therefore neither is evo psych. As far as the right is concerned, men and women are different because god made them that way. This isn't a left-wing criticizing right-wing situation. This is one field of science being criticized by other fields of science.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 05:22 PM
1

thanks :)
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 05:13 PM
4

um, as another happily single woman who knows lots of other happily single women, I beg to differ.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 03:49 PM
11

Evo psych is a pretty controversial field in the sciences. It is heavily criticized for being full of "just so stories" rather than empirical evidence. The evolutionary differences TRPers cite as fact are actually just theories, and poorly supported ones at that. There is no consensus in the scientific community that these differences either a) are real or b) evolved for the reasons TRPers generally claim. TRP is placing the foundation of it's theories on gender differences on very shaky ground,…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/15 03:46 PM
1

sigh. ok. you said I don't get it - negging isn't supposed to make a girl feel beautiful or not beautiful. I quoted the definition of negging to make the point that it is indeed, in fact, about making a woman feel bad about herself. Is there another definition of negging that I haven't heard?
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/15 01:35 AM
0

you were the one who posed the question. game vs. no game. How can I answer that question without knowing what your idea of game is? My understanding is that game is a general word that simply refers to "smoothness with women." So do gals prefer guys who are smooth to guys who aren't? sure. I don't see how that supports any of your points though.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/15 01:28 AM
0

alright then. Define game.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/15 01:18 AM
1

here is the urban dictionary definition of negging: "Low-grade insults meant to undermine the self-confidence of a woman so she might be more vulnerable to your advances." Nuff said.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/15 01:17 AM
0

what random anonymous TRPers have written? um, pretty much every FR on there. Ever.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/15 01:16 AM
1

You are creating a false dichotomy: game vs. no game. Red pill vs....what exactly? I think if you go up to most women and ask them, "would you like to date a man who is emotionally distant but also extraordinarily demanding, who treats you like a child, makes you feel bad about yourself and makes it clear he could dump you at any moment, for any reason? " I think most gals would say no.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/15 01:13 AM
0

You really can't understand how someone's takeway could be that TRP strategies are mostly men treating women like crap? Seriously, have you even read TRP?
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/15 01:11 AM
1

Here's a revolutionary idea: actually give them that. That might make them feel like they're getting that. edit: negging = the opposite of making a girl feel beautiful. Dread game = the opposite of making a woman feel loved.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/15 01:02 AM
3

you said: So, you are saying that the man should just give his wife what she wants (divorce) with no consideration for what he wants? And then I said, are you saying she shouldn't be allowed to have a divorce just because her husband doesn't want it? So yes, I'm saying a husband should give his wife a divorce even if he doesn't want one, just like a wife should give her husband a diorce even if she doesn't want one. Obviously they can talk about it, but I think attempts on his part to manipulate…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/15 12:58 AM
4

So, are you saying that women shouldn't be allowed to get a divorce if her husband doesn't want it? or, to turn it on it's head, should the woman just give her husband what he wants (sex) with no consideration for what she wants? She obviously "manipulated" him into divorcing her what?
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/15 12:49 AM
1

Is it really so hard to believe that a woman might actually want to be with a guy who treats her well, makes her feel beautiful and loved, who considers her an equal partner and is willing to communicate?
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/15 12:37 AM
8

For the record, I think you've just made the best case for TRP I've ever heard. I'd be convinced if it weren't for the fact that TRP contains so much misogyny. Shock therapy for social misfits is one thing, but teaching them to hate/belittle/objectify women at the same time is doing them more harm then good. Isn't it possible to believe that guys should work out/eat healthy/be confident/take risks/put themselves out there/not get oneitis without also believing that women are hypergomous children…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/15 12:32 AM
3

ok. Let me try again. In scenario 1, the boyfriend wants to control his partner. He has a specific outcome in mind, and his goal is to manipulate his partner to get what he wants, without regard to her feelings, or her agency. In scenario 2, the boyfriend is not trying to control his partner, he is controlling himself. He is setting clear boundaries about what he does and does not consider acceptable in the relationship, while allowing her to behave as she chooses. He is acknowledging her agency…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/15 12:15 AM
3

The fact that you don't see the distinction between these two scenarios explains a lot to me about why people join TRP
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/15 07:21 PM
2

Let me put forth two scenarios for you. Scenario 1: Boyfriend desires that his partner feel dread, because he believes this will allow him to control her behavior. He speaks and behaves in a such a way as to create dread in his partner as a way of manipulating her into doing what he wants. Scenario 2: Boyfriend desires that his partner stop treating him a certain way, so he sits her down and explains to her that the way she is treating him is not ok, and if she insists on continuing to treat him…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/15 07:03 PM
2

the problem is that there are people who will always put their needs above their partners, to the point where it's detrimental to the partner. That isn't a problem with TRP, that's an individual problem. Except that TRP tells guys to put their own needs ahead of their partners.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/15 06:46 PM
4

I think there's a difference between the intentional instillation of dread as a manipulation technique and the accidental instillation of dread as a side effect of a shifting power dynamic. The devil is in the details.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/15 04:43 PM
5

Fair enough. For definition purposes, I'll clarify that when I use the term "plate-spinner" I am referring to a man who maintains casual relationships with women for the sole purpose of having sex with them, without regard for their feelings or desires, and uses manipulation techniques (e.g., instilling false hope of a future commitment) in order to maintain the sexual relationship as long as possible. I am not referring to men who a) date multiple woman at the same time to the mutual benefit of…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/15 04:41 PM
3

if a guy is "weak," (whatever that means), but then begins to stand up for himself and make it clear to his partner that he feels mistreated and that is not ok, then I'd say he's learning. If he begins to actively instill dread in his partner in an effort to manipulate her into behaving the way he wants, then yes, than I'd say it's shitty.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/15 04:24 PM
6

Pretty women can have low self-esteems too.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/15 04:20 PM
5

Nope. Anyone who behaves this way is an asshole. But TRP actively promotes these behaviors.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/15 04:20 PM
6

Being in a relationship is not the same thing as plate-spinning. Far from it. It's not the number of women you have slept with, it's the quality of the relationships you have had that matter. Few things will turn a woman off faster (at least a well-adjusted woman) than evidence from your past or present that you have a tendency to mistreat women.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/15 04:11 PM
5

I disagree. I don't think it's the fact that these are learned behaviors rather than natural behaviors that is bothersome. If a guy learns how to playfully tease as a way of flirting, or gains the confidence to approach women and begins dating multiple people at the same time, more power to him. If someone engages in the darker side of these behaviors (a la TRP), it doesn't matter if it is natural or learned behavior.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/15 04:00 PM
5

I've seen terpers argue that women find this attractive in a man - that the more women they are sleeping with, the more women will want them. Personally I find the opposite is true - its a huge turn off when I find out that a guy I'm interested in or just started seeing is a plate-spinner.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/15 03:48 PM
24

Great post, and thanks for linking to examples. Somehow, TRP managed to take strategies that are just normal parts of dating and relationships, give them new names, and warp them almost beyond recognition. Are these strategies basically harmless? Sure. Playful teasing is part of flirting, dating/sleeping with multiple people is how you roll when you're single, and any time someone is in a relationship, it should be understood by both partners that either one is free to leave if they so desire, o…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/15 03:23 PM
-1

The woman is not a slave, she can leave whenever she wants. Hence the qualifier "voluntary". In the absence of societal or familial pressure, this type of dom/sub relationship is a sexual kink bleeding out of the bedroom. I suppose if you look at it that way, there's nothing wrong with RPW. It's just a sub for gals who all share the same kink. But they don't view themselves that way - in their view, their way of approaching relationships is the right way and anyone who doesn't follow it will end…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/04/15 04:01 PM
-1

I think it depends on how you're defining a traditional relationship. If you see a traditional relationship as one in which the mom stays home and takes care of the kids while the dad works, that certainly seems fine to me. But the gals on RPW don't just want to stay home and take care of the kids, they want to be subservient to their men. They want an unequal relationship, in which their man has power over them. They glorify it, in fact. It's voluntary slavery. edit: I don't mean to say they sh…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/04/15 02:37 PM
-3

I can't stand to spend more than a few minutes on RPW. To me, it's far worse than TRP. For all it's misogyny and logical fallacies, TRP is about taking control of your life, seeing things as they really are, becoming a better person. RPW is just a bunch of people participating in their own subjugation.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/04/15 12:07 PM
3

I know I'm probably coming across as belligerent with all these posts, but for the record, I think you've made some very important points here. It's true that many people (men and women) in their 30s have been through the ringer a few times, and they run the risk of letting it make them bitter. I think it's important for everyone, men and women, to be aware of this, to remember that the new guy/girl they just started dating is innocent until proven guilty and not let the past dictate the present…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/04/15 12:25 PM
1

I'd say dread game is an example of emotional abuse - you are purposely trying to make your partner unhappy and scared in order to manipulate them into behaving the way you want them to.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/04/15 12:09 PM
3

So let me get this straight - your problem with midthirties women is that they are cold, entitled, and judge men harshly before getting to know them. And your response to this is...to be cold, entitled, and judge women harshly before getting to know them.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/04/15 11:48 AM
2

I think the larger point was that the consequences for getting dumped 50 years ago were, and in some cases still are, very different for men and women. 50 years ago if my husband left me I'd have a hard time supporting myself because I would have never had the opportunity to get an education or a good paying job, whereas if I left my husband he might be hurt emotionally, but he would not have suffered the same social and financial consequences.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/04/15 09:48 PM
1

I meant, RPW focus all their energy on finding a great man and then trust that as long as they try to maintain their looks (to the best they can), let their husband be the captain, iron his socks and do pretty much whatever he wants whenever he wants it, they will stay happily married forever. To me, that sounds like not making plans and hoping for the best because "love wife goggles conquers all". Making plans, not just hoping for the best, taking your future into your own hands? Sounds an awfu…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/04/15 09:19 PM
2

if anything, I'd say it's the opposite - it's hard to be flexible at the beginning of your career, when sticking with your partner means giving up a chance to go to that amazing graduate school across the country or leaving that awesome job because your partner got transferred. When you're further along, things get a bit easier because of spousal hires and couples matching etc. The stakes are also higher when you're younger because you are in the process of establishing yourself. Giving up an am…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/04/15 09:07 PM
1

I can't spend more than a few seconds on RPW. TRP I can take, I even agree with some of the points they make, but RPW is just a sad, sad place.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/04/15 08:57 PM
1

not making plans and hoping for the best because "love conquers all". This sounds exactly like RPW to me.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/04/15 08:55 PM
2

yep. It boggles my mind every time I read TRP posts that they seem to think every single woman in her 20s is either saving her virginity for marriage or triple teaming strangers in a bar after doing nine lines of coke. I don't think I know more than one or two people, if that, who fit into either of those categories.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/04/15 08:42 PM
2

I can see avoiding women who treat dating like a job interview for "future husband," but I would guess this is only loosely correlated with age. Plenty of women in their 20s (especially ones dating men 10 years older than they are) will be interviewing you for the job of boyfriend, while plenty of women in their 30s will be interested in getting to know you intimately. By setting these hard and fast criteria for who you are and are not willing to get to know, you may miss out on the opportunity …
/r/PurplePillDebate20/04/15 08:40 PM
2

why should I learn to recognize the awesomeness of women of 35, given my current situation (early 30s and without children of my own)? It seems to me that you are doing exactly what those over-30 women you describe in your post were doing - turning dating into a job interview rather than actually being in it for a your partner. Finding a life partner isn't like shopping for an iphone. You don't go to the Girl Store and pick the model you most prefer ("Excuse me sales person, I'll take that 25 ye…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/04/15 07:56 PM
2

with what you're describing, it seems like the problem is you, not her. You're saying that if you meet your perfect woman at 22 you will recognize her as awesome and all will be well. If you meet this same perfect woman when she's 35, you will fail to register her awesomeness and end up not being with her (I'm assuming here that there is more to your concept of perfection than just looks). The solution to what you're describing is not for her to lock you down at 22, but for you to shift your per…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/04/15 06:08 PM
3

I'm not trying to understand men so much as I'm trying to understand what my incentive is to behave in the way TRP and RPW encourage women to behave. Basically, the TRP logic is this: a woman's only value is her sexual activeness sexual attractiveness is gone when a woman hits "the wall" unless she has married before hitting "the wall" in which case, wife goggles prevent her husband from ceasing to be attracted to her unless she gets fat, or stops making him happy, in which case the goggles fall…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/04/15 03:33 PM
3

my advice is to be the 22 year old secretary. Haha but that's the thing, you can only be 22 for one year.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/15 10:24 PM
2

just because a woman initiates divorce proceedings doesn't mean she initiated the divorce. A man might be perfectly happy having his wife clean his house and take care of his children while he bangs the secretary, but if his wife won't put up with it and files for divorce, she'd count in your 70%.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/15 10:23 PM
4

why not build a nice family and a network of friends who you can depend on? Because I can't depend on them. As TRP doctrine maintains, once I hit the wall my nice TRP husband will drop me for a 20 year old cc rider, because I'm not hot anymore and, as TRP tells us, girls who aren't hot have no value. If The Wall is a thing, then there's simply no incentive for me to invest in a man when I could be out enjoying myself. My happy days are limited anyway, so why not enjoy them while I have them?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/15 10:22 PM
1

Feminism isn't about lowering the bar for women, it's about removing barriers that prevent women from competing in the first place. Back when women were held accountable ...as in, back when women couldn't vote, couldn't hold jobs outside of the home and couldn't inherit property? Is that what you think society should go back to? Feminism can be a bit of a pity party at times. And yeah, that's annoying. But 100 years ago I would probably be pregnant, barefoot and in the kitchen right now, and tod…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/15 10:04 PM
3

it's not "some guy" its the man that you love and are dedicating your life to through marriage. You're right. It's not just some guy. But the future is uncertain. No matter how much we want to believe that if we follow the right formula, make the right choice, our lives will be set up for us indefinitely, the bottom line is there's no way of being sure, especially when it comes to other people. People change. Relationships change. Circumstances change. Maybe you'll be lucky, maybe you won't. But…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/15 09:33 PM
4

it's not really a horrible thing, nor is it "constant dread". in that case, whoever came up with the name did a bad job. Where did you get the idea that the feminist narrative is that women shouldn't have to do shit, should just squander their most desirable years without investing anything in themselves or their SP, and men should just put up with that? When I was a little girl (yes, I'm a girl, if that's not obvious), the feminist message was the exact opposite - DONT squander your years, DO i…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/15 09:20 PM
4

what bothers me about this mentality is that it seems so one sided. Of course I would want someone I'm in a relationship with to be happy. But the way it's described here, it's like my sole job as the girlfriend/wife is to woo her husband and make sure he's happy because if for whatever reason and at whatever point in time he stops being happy, I'm out on the street. Frankly, that's just too much pressure. All your talk of dread game - who would want to live like that, in constant dread? Sounds …
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/15 08:19 PM
3

I agree, 100%. I've seen tons of guys stay in bad relationships because they have internalized the idea that they are supposed to make some girl happy. Both members of a relationship should be happy, imho, otherwise the relationship isn't working properly.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/15 08:12 PM
5

you seem really awesome. your wife is a lucky lady! :) but not all ladies are so lucky. Sometimes the guys they marry turn out to be not so awesome.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/15 08:04 PM
2

RPWs will invest it in stocks, education, businesses, and productive shit What I'm talking about is this - investing in education, investing in yourself. Not looking for a man, not looking to lock someone down before your "hot years" wane, but taking the time you have and using it to further your own personal growth. Go to grad school, travel, figure out who you are. All of these sound like good investments to me. feminists say, "well it's gone in 1- years anyways. Might as well enjoy rich girl …
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/15 07:52 PM
4

Exactly. Not seeing the appeal of this. Why should I dedicate my life to making some guy happy? What's in it for me? 100 years ago I wouldn't have had a choice, but now I do. Why should I choose this option? Seriously, convince me. Because everything I read on TRP makes me think I'm better off single.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/15 03:44 PM
7

As a matter of fact, I don't believe in the wall. But I think that if you take the concept of The Wall to it's logical conclusion, a woman's best bet is to enjoy her 20s and focus on building a solid career rather than locking down a man. I find this to be a huge hole in TRP philosophy, and I was curious to hear how people would react when someone pointed it out. So far, the response has been to a) back away from the entire concept of the wall (turning 30 isn't so bad after all, you can still be…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/15 03:31 PM
17

The entire concept of wife-goggles is just ridiculous. You're basically saying "sure, all men only want to fuck women 18-24, but as soon as you say "I Do" these magic goggles descend from heaven on to your husbands face and he will never look at another woman again." If this is a real thing, why do so many men cheat on their wives? Why do so many men leave their wives? I'm sure there are feminist women who are unhappy with the lifestyle that they have chosen. But I've seen so many woman who have…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/15 03:10 PM
3

The entire idea behind "The Wall" is that it IS just physical appearance. If there's more to physical appearance, then why are women over 30 so undesirable? Not every single woman in her 30s is just settling for you because she can't ride the cock carousel anymore. That seems like a huge overgeneralization.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/15 03:06 PM
9

This philosophy assumes that once you lock down Mr. Right (when you're a hot 22 year old) you're set for life. Because everyone stays exactly the same as they were at 22, wants the same things, stays in love with the same people yada yada. not. People change. People fall out of love. You can't always predict which marriage will fail and which won't. This approach seems incredibly short-sighted. Where is the contingency plan? What will you do if your perfect Mr. Right up and leaves for no reason …
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/15 03:02 PM
9

I agree with you that living the 'party life' is not a good way to make the future you as happy and fulfilled as possible. But I don't see how locking down a guy and being his housewife when there is a pretty good chance he might leave me someday for a younger model is a good recipe for happiness either. It seems to me that my best bet is, well, for lack of a better analogy, to take TRP advice for men and use it myself: focus on self improvement, focus on a career, focus on being fit and healthy…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/15 02:55 PM
4

ok, but what if he's not happy? Maybe this unhappiness has to do with you (your sex drive decreased, you're stressed because of the kids etc. etc.) or maybe it isn't (he's going through a mid-life crisis, he regrets decisions he made, roads not traveled) and leaves you to go marry a younger woman in switzerland and start a new family (this happened to my friend's mom). It still seems to me that my best bet in my 20s is to enjoy my own life and focus on my career.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/15 02:40 PM
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