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confusedbonobo007 Archive

View 3 posts and 67 comments by confusedbonobo007 on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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1

Thank you for this. Reading it right now. I must ask, do you think that this is a well-informed, complete, and fair take on patriarchy theory? If you think there is some bias/framing/some other issues, can you recommend some other location where I would get a balanced analysis? I want to have a comprehensive source I can refer to, especially when I am talking to family members or people online, that wouldn't be shouted down as clearly biased/uncharitable/bad faith.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/04/21 09:54 PM
1

I agree. We are left wing after all. My point is claiming that a superstructure benefitting a certain class also hurting members of that class DOES NOT invalidate the idea that the superstructure exists. There are reasons patriarchy theory is wrong. That isn't one of them. Just my view. Anyway, have a great day. I gotta log off for the weekend.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/04/21 11:34 PM
1

Actually, what even is patriarchy theory? Define it for me, so I can make sure we are working with the same tools. Patriarchy is defined as: Patriarchy is a social system in which men hold primary power and predominate in roles of political leadership, moral authority, social privilege and control of property. I think by most metrics, we find this is fairly true. If patriarchy theory says that men are completely at fault for this, women are powerless, and that men are exclusively advantaged by t…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/04/21 08:50 PM
1

I am arguing that this statement doesn't make sense: The statement "men suffer under patriarchy too" is a statement that disproves the validity of the patriarchy theory. It's doublethink and self contradictory If I follow a theory of class analysis that says the wealthy who are controlling society with political and social capital, and the wealth inequality and policies they support hurt them as well, it absolutely does not discount my theory. Just because people are hurt by a policy they suppos…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/04/21 08:43 PM
1

Of course not. This is left-wing no? Let me be clear, there is a big back and forth and mixed bag here. The system was made in a period when things worked out that way, but it didn't make it right. Men and women, together, "agreed" to oppress men and women in their own ways. In some areas, this agreement leads to the impression men have all the power, and in other areas, it leads to the impression women have all the power. Childrearing is a great example. Men and women both can see this as mixed…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/04/21 08:12 PM
1

I don't understand your point. I'm very very very very specifically responding to this: The statement "men suffer under patriarchy too" is a statement that disproves the validity of the patriarchy theory. It's doublethink and self contradictory I conclude that the statement "the wealthy suffer under increasing classism and wealth inequality" IS NOT a statement that disproves the validity of a theory that states the wealthy have access to most of the political power and influence in society. Just…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/04/21 08:06 PM
1

Not at all. Just because the genders are difference does not make it so discrimination by one group against the other, broadly speaking, unable to hurt the main group. Discrimination by one group can be definitively shown to hurt members of that same group by many metrics. If you don't like the race comparison, look at the inequality one. Class discrimination hurts the wealthy. https://www.barrons.com/articles/income-inequality-cant-get-much-worse-51555620303 https://theconversation.com/dont-lis…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/04/21 07:52 PM
2

I think you explained it well. I made a comment along the same lines, do you agree? If I said white men are hurt by systemic racism against minorities, that doesn't disprove the idea of systemic racism. It just proves that systemic racism hurts white people too, especially the one's who don't get the benefits. Similarly with regards to class and inequality. Inequality hurts everyone, including the wealthy. It doesn't disprove the bad problems of classism and inequality as an understanding of pol…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/04/21 07:31 PM
1

Can I point out that I think you are wrong. If I said white men are hurt by systemic racism against minorities, that doesn't disprove the idea of systemic racism. It just proves that systemic racism hurts white people too, especially the one's who don't get the benefits. Similarly with regards to class and inequality. Inequality hurts everyone, including the wealthy. It doesn't disprove the bad problems of classism and inequality as an understanding of political policy and alignment/interests, i…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/04/21 07:30 PM
9

So fucking true. I thought the self righteousness and derailment was a meme until it happened to me. Feminists - “get your own space, feminism is for women’s issues not men. Typical men always trying to derail stuff and make it all about them” This is a quote forreal lol
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/04/21 07:27 PM
2

Sure. I know that. I was pretty clear that I don't knowingly associate myself with anyone that ridiculous. That's all I said. Am I not allowed to talk about my own lived experience?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/04/21 02:56 AM
2

What do you mean? I'm sure there are actually real people like that. I just don't surround myself with them, or at least, if I find out they are like that, I either help them get it right or leave. Boundaries are boundaries. Fuck that.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/04/21 02:29 AM
5

Yeah...no one I know thinks like that because if they did I wouldn't know em/talk to em/be friends with them. Its actually the most backwards misogynist and misandrist way of thinking. Somehow its a 2 in 1.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/04/21 02:01 AM
11

Ok yeah I mean...I understand why they say that but still. That's the issue, isn't it. One person's boundaries/rules is another person being pressured. The world is so complicated lol...but as long as you are chill about it, I don't know it what world they are right. Like if I say "I don't do condoms. If you are on the pill, fine. Otherwise, I will pass" - Is this stating your position and being clear about it so that an honest discussion can take place, or are you trying to pressure the other p…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/03/21 11:56 PM
1

Why is it that any man who expresses that condoms don’t work well for him and aren’t good for sex are treated like misogynists, assholes, or patriarchal? Why do we uplift female sexuality and empower women who choose what to do with their bodies, but then denigrate men who dislike condom usage, and treat them as bad people? Anyone who does this is terrible. But I want to clarify. Regarding the thread above, I think it would actually be very inconsiderate to expect your partner to only use condom…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/03/21 09:58 PM
38

What the fuck. I'm like confused. How in the world is you taking back consent before anything happens wrong?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/03/21 09:56 PM
2

Yeah. This is gross. Glad there was an uproar and they apologized.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/03/21 06:10 PM
5

True on that first point. Also, true on The former are criticised for what they espouse as a group. The latter are criticised for individual actions, even if it can be shown that there is a wider culture that perpetuates their ability to perform those actions. Males don't espouse sexual assault, generally speaking (as a group). The question is, is there any validity to a the group espousing it culturally but NOT directly (like WS)? i.e. even if it can be shown that there is a wider culture that …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/03/21 03:54 AM
4

What do you think of this response to his article? http://obsessionwithregression.blogspot.com/2017/12/no-scott-alexander-focus-on-powerful.html It pushes back on some parts, but I don't think it understands his point. Your thoughts?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/03/21 10:14 PM
1

Source please. Love to have it for future reference. I can care about the pay gap while caring about the lack of a department of men's health, men's shelters, etc.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/03/21 03:56 PM
2

Disagree. We can focus on men's issues while evaluating the pay gap. Many people agree with me that significant discrimination against men and women (which hurts men both ways) creates the pay gap. Toxic expectations, beliefs about men and women as employees, etc.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/03/21 04:18 AM
2

Yes. 100%
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/03/21 04:07 AM
2

This is partially true. But just because men have a tendency towards STEM does not a problem make. When you consider things like wages, and the fact that just because men generally prefer STEM does not mean ALL MEN go into stem , this argument falls apart. You have ignored any social aspects of gender, as well as the reality that the gender spectrum is far more mixed than you give credit for. The present study investigates the relationship of circulating sex hormone levels and gender role to gra…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/03/21 08:54 PM
2

Link please!!!! Yes thats how I feel here too.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/03/21 08:44 PM
2

Yes. agreed. Some of the articles here do go very in depth on this topic.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/03/21 08:43 PM
2

Why not both. Why not consider the pay gap and the overall loss of wages? I'm a market socialist, I still support markets. I still see that wages have stagnated and been hurt immensely, that doesn't stop me from considering other issues too.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/03/21 08:42 PM
7

Both can be problems. We can deal with both.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/03/21 08:39 PM
1

Lmao. I've done much much more research than you. The fact is 10 minutes of proper research shows the wage gap is indeed real. I've shown you many many articles that explicitly indicate and explain this. I'm shocked you don't get it. I'm more shocked you didn't see the sarcasm in everything I said. I wasn't being serious in those first few sentences. Next time, I will only post studies that explicitly support my position, instead of assuming you will read all of them and fill in the blanks about…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/03/21 02:55 AM
1

I've read the studies in my document. Next time, I will only post studies that explicitly support my position, instead of assuming you will read all of them and fill in the blanks about the point I am making about a persistent wage gap. That first study, about a specific occupation, delves into the various factors leading to a potential wage gap and analyzes them to consider which factors are most poignant for that position. It is hard, nay impossible, to extrapolate that paper's conclusions tow…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/21 01:58 AM
1

The first study I posted was the first study I have in my personal research document on various political questions, including the wage gap. I sent you the first 3 in my document, I don't care about order as much as you. As much as someone can when they spam 70 page studies. Yes. Both of them talk about issues such as education, union membership, job related skills, the fact that the ‘earnings’ gap is reducing and the education disadvantage that used to exist for women has now been reversed. All…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/21 12:48 AM
1

Did you read the other studies? I have a document where I've collected thousands of studies on various topics. Not all of them agree with eachother. I try to have access to any and all information. That study discussed ONE SPECIFIC POSITION IN ONE FIELD. Let's be clear, every other study, big meta analysis, etc. finds a real wage gap. In case its hard for you, ill link again. https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2020/01/30/womens-lead-in-skills-and-education-is-helping-narrow-the-gender-wage-gap/ - G…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/21 11:56 PM
1

https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/bolotnyy/files/be_gendergap.pdf – Gender wage gap https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2020/01/30/womens-lead-in-skills-and-education-is-helping-narrow-the-gender-wage-gap/ - Gender wage gap https://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdf/10.1257/jel.20160995 – Gender wage gap Let's be clear, the wage gap is real. And I was talking about intersectionality. It is illegal. If it was true then companies would be falling over themselves to hire a female workforce that could do the same …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/21 09:20 PM
1

100% agreed with everything you said here.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/21 09:16 PM
1

I don't think so. I think hes opened up to it quite a bit.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/21 09:15 PM
0

No they aren't feminist leaders I guess. One example is Vaush. He slams this home non stop. Black men are the most victimized by the CJ system, and men in general are too (hes clear on this.)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/03/21 09:57 PM
1

Ok, so to be clear, the wage gap is real. We know that, multiple studies have shown it. It does get misrepresented by the media, but it is real. 100%. Intersectionality existed separate from/before co-op by feminism. It is a separate lens of viewing the world and power relations, and a good one. I know many men who believe this: No, these are feminist ideas. Why would the ‘patriarchy’ which supposedly upholds male thoughts and power propagate ideas that they are violent and need to be punished? …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/03/21 09:57 PM
0

I mean I don't necessarily know any big names, but I've talked to many people who describe themselves as intersectionalists and recognize things like biases in criminal justice and family courts, and things like guilty before innocent for sex-related crimes, etc. Obviously some of these are related to male stereotypes perpetuated by (patriarchy???) idk. Like the idea men are more violent and need to be punished more harshly, lack self control, and men are not supposed to raise kids etc. are patr…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 11:53 PM
-1

I mean I don't necessarily know any big names, but I've talked to many people who describe themselves as intersectionalists and recognize things like biases in criminal justice and family courts, and things like guilty before innocent for sex-related crimes, etc.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 11:51 PM
-8

Many intersectionalists see men as an oppressed class in many areas of society?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 06:01 PM
1

It's both. When looking at severe violence, more of it is against women. When looking at overall female on male violence, less than a majority (in this example 21%) is self defense. This is still a larger proportion than the self defense male on female violence I guess.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/03/21 04:47 PM
1

Can you explain? I have 2 problems with the intro Fringe makes it sound extremist/wrong And maybe the description of feminism? Tbf tho, most mrm groups do see feminism as a terrible thing. That's why I joined this sub, because the Discourse isn't as feminism heavy.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/03/21 04:45 PM
7

Why is this down voted?
/r/MensRights04/03/21 07:14 AM
9

How many single moms just live off of welfare and child support (instead of working?). Reading article now.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/03/21 08:52 PM
10

Am I a terrible person for laughing. That was a good joke
/r/MensRights25/02/21 07:26 PM
1

Yes, and my point is why need to be putting in effort to reset/clear/reevaluate and open up the norms, like the norm example I gave. Don't flip them. Why flip them? Why can't we put in the effort as a society to kind of just say fuck off to unnecessary norms like the area I grew up in? I never felt that much pressure, and even if I did I could withstand it. If we can put in the effort to change norms a little bit, why can't we put in more effort and change them a lot so that you can be effeminat…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 06:49 PM
1

Lol. I'm literally saying the EXACT opposite of what you think. Sorry that I didn't make that clear. I'm a dude, and I think I'm a really kind and genuine person. What kind of self hating idiot would I be to say all man are assholes. Dafuq lol. I'm saying we CANNOT use the common feminist rhetoric that MAN = ASSHOLE. I'm saying we need to go back to the real definition of asshole, not the stupid feminism one. Agreed with your point on the sexuality thing. That is the exact norm I am trying to fi…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 06:21 PM
1

Really? Super interesting. I was a late bloomer and only do sexual things in an LTR, but I am more than happy about it, have never felt judged, and have never ever felt the need to do anything I don't wanna do. Maybe it is a norm, but I definitely don't feel like if I'm not fucking everything I see I'm not a man. This is exactly what I'm going for. Norms that maybe exist, but really don't matter and don't push people to make shitty decisions they themselves are not happy with. Its very possible …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 04:58 PM
1

You said earlier you agreed with most of my points/my goal. But it seems like you are saying that the idea of (loose norms/norms exist but are more like averages and they don't really matter) also can't exist (it would only be short term). I guess I'm a little confused. I thought you were advocating/agreeing/saying it is possible to have loose norms, but you are saying that also isn't possible? You said earlier something like "what you are getting at in the last part", I thought you said that wh…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 04:36 PM
1

A) yes, norms like that should hopefully disappear one day. Norms like "you shouldn't watch porn" drifted into the ether cuz that's stupid, you should do what you want to do. I'm hopeful that most norms will one day fade away, by extension of B) B) as I said we gotta make norms not matter. If there wasn't a norm that people are pressured to meet, that men must be x, then the norm itself, as fewer and fewer people care to follow it, would fade away. Yes, norms always constrain people some, which …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 04:01 PM
1

Yeah I think the "looseness" of the norms as well as how little these "norms" should materially impact life are the two points I stress. A) the norms should be more open and inclusive to start B) it really really really should not matter if you don't meet the "average" man or meet masculine norms/expectations. The norm itself kind of isn't the issue, its the unhealthy obsessions, expectations restrictions on freedom and happiness, etc. That come FROM trying to adhere to norms that cause unfair i…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 08:13 AM
2

Ok, I think I communicate some of my points badly. Feel free to read my convo with the OP. I do a better job there.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 08:01 AM
2

I'm not saying anything (like strength for example) should be included. I'm saying that we can have some idea of "average" (not normal, average, key distinction imo) but that idea of what's average should not have any meaningful or material impact on how you are treated in society. As soon as we saying something is normal, people don't want to be seen as "abnormal" and that hurts. If we say something is an "average" no one cares in that same way. I can be below average in strength but above aver…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 07:48 AM
2

Wait, so if Tahiti existed for so long without norms, it doesn't follow the we absolutely need norms to function, right? Also, looking at your statement, what if norms simply aren't structured in the first place, and so the human response to them is irrelevant? Furthermore, is the idea of a society where we don't have such specific expectations/requirements of what it means to be a typical man (or maybe we do, but we never hold people to them, punish them, make them feel unwelcome if they don't …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 07:23 AM
3

Hmmm. You made me think of an important question here. It falls into the naturalistic fallacy. Just because society depended on these norms in the past/in nature, does that mean we still need them today? The naturalistic fallacy applies to argument for religion, and many more things. So you think it is simply not possible for society to exist without some sort of norm? Is there no society without such norms? Are there not enough differences in norms across societies that basically everything can…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 07:13 AM
2

Hmmm. You made me think of an important question here. It falls into the naturalistic fallacy. Just because society depended on these norms in the past/in nature, does that mean we still need them today? The naturalistic fallacy applies to argument for religion, and many more things. So you think it is simply not possible for society to exist without some sort of norm? Is there no society without such norms? Are there not enough differences in norms across societies that basically everything can…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 06:45 AM
1

I edited my comment. I don't think you'll watch it. But I'll take a look at your sub.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 06:19 AM
1

He implicates society for forcing men to work towards stupid standards and norms that need to evolve and adopt to the modern day and become more about positivity and growth and improving society, not ancient norms about what it means to be a man (which he also points out are far from constant and have changed massively both geographically and chronologically)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 06:07 AM
-1

Please watch the full video of you have the time. I don't think he is saying we should have no norms. I think he is saying we need to change the norms to be more inclusive, and recognize you don't need to hurt yourself to live up to being a man. I don't think you can get his message from watching 5 or 10 minutes of it. If you aren't gonna watch it that's fine, but please characterjze it fairly.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 06:06 AM
-3

The title of the video is the crisis of masculinity. Please watch the video. Please
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 06:03 AM
-1

He goes into honest detail about the issues of the standards we glforce men to try to uphold and how the inflicts damage to them. He's saying toxic masculinity is defined by men trying to live up to shitty, unfair standards. I understand you don't seem to like him, but please give him a chance. Edit: my app isn't letting me comment more, not enough sub karma I guess. He doesn't cite specific studies, but most of what he said made sense to me. The things he defines as masculine are literally exac…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 05:43 AM
-6

Can I recommend something? Watch the vaush YouTube video titled the crisis of masculinity He talks a lot about what you say here
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/20 04:46 AM
1

Pms!
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/08/20 06:27 AM
1

Question. Is compensation for the duty of child rearing (for either gender) something you are strongly opposed to? If so, please tell me about why. I don't know about how we would do it, but I am fundamentally not opposed to the idea of compensating people for valuable productive labor like child-rearing.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/08/20 06:09 AM
1

Question for you. I too believe this to be the case. But I was thinking about it and would like studies showing why the misogyny is not the final problem, and fixing this from a feminist perspective won't help men. For example people often mentions courts and say that if men did more child rearing they'd be as likely to get custody as women, but we know thats not true, many studies show a bias favoring women. Can you post some examples of why the feminist logic here doesn't pan out? Thank you ve…
/r/MensRights22/08/20 10:31 PM
13

As G eazy might say There's some 6s up in here like who allowed it? They shouldn't, but they sometimes do.
/r/askTRP16/03/20 03:41 PM
2

A lot of the comments have an interesting outlook. I understand the red pill focuses on a putting myself first mentality, but I fell there is a line somewhere when it comes to selfish behavior. I work in an office with many 50-60 year Olds, and as a 20 something guy, idc if I get it. But I would be really sad to hear I infected others, potentially ending someone's life.
/r/askTRP12/03/20 04:22 AM
4

This made me think of the song opportunity cost by G-Eazy. Great song that makes you think about the cost of everything.
/r/askTRP29/01/20 12:42 AM
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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