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cookiebootz Archive

View 2 posts and 508 comments by cookiebootz on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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Upvotes Title Category Author Subreddit Date (UTC)
13

CMVcookiebootz/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 05:30 PM
6

Discussioncookiebootz/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/15 08:18 PM
Upvotes Comment on Subreddit Date (UTC)
1

17 year old girls who've been raised completely egalitarian or feminist Which girls would these be?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/05/16 09:13 PM
1

I say let them choose what they like. Do you think people who would like to see more women in STEM disagree with you on this?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/05/16 09:13 PM
1

I've had that arrangement, he used it but I didn't. Maybe if I had different options I might have, but I could have gone out looking and I didn't feel like it.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/05/16 05:56 PM
1

What's your definition of 'natural' in this context?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/05/16 05:52 PM
5

If you think TBP users deny that people are flawed, and if you think they'd accept Rodger's attitude towards pretty women and successful men...then I don't think you understand that sub very well.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/05/16 05:51 PM
1

I've been turned down from boyfriends when they were too tired or otherwise not feeling it. I've been turned down by other guys when I came on too suddenly and weirded them out, or when they had their eye on a girl they thought would be a better partner. These are kinda guesses though because I didn't make them tell me why they said no.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/16 08:29 PM
5

Anybody would tell him to get out of that situation as it's being presented and work on becoming self-sufficient, at the very least. It would be silly to act like one pill has a monopoly on good advice in this case since they'd both say likely the same thing about cutting this relationship out. edit: I guess the point of divergence would be that TRP will prescribe that he lift, read the sidebar, and adopt the goal of fucking plates. TBP would probably offer a wider range of suggestions as far as…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/16 03:24 AM
9

how would I "prove" that most women treat Betas like shit? You're the one making this statement. I can't tell you how to support your beliefs. I have impressions based on my own experience and not much else. Here's one of mine about bar behavior: I've tried to politely turn down guys who approach me, for example saying "Thanks for the offer but I haven't seen my friends in forever and I want to hang out with them tonight," or "Stop eating my fries please," but usually they turn into assholes or …
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/16 12:42 AM
4

You're saying you've seen women be mean to men in certain situations and locations, therefor most women treat betas like shit. When people ask how you can evidence that your conclusion is actually true, you clam up and say you don't care to do that. But you want people to explain to you why it happens. How is anyone supposed to provide an explanation for something they don't even necessarily believe is true?
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/16 11:48 PM
2

You have the right to approach whoever you want. You have a right to dismiss anyone who approaches you, for whatever reason you want. Everyone else has those rights too.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/16 11:21 PM
2

Objectification isn't synonymous with attraction. A simple dictionary definition is: "to treat (someone) as an object rather than as a person." Think about what it means that this definition makes a distinction between how a person is treated and how an object is treated, and what that distinction might be. Digging a little more deeply, like on the wikipedia page, you can find a list of properties that, if applied to a person, constitute objectification. This list pops up in a lot of discussions…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/16 10:57 PM
1

This is a table of the open-ended responses provided by the men in the study, but it is not a catalog of every one of those responses. Nope, that’s a table of the closed questions. Here’s the paper. It says “In the final version, 55 closed questions were included in the questionnaire and participants were asked to rate them… (Table 2).” But you don’t even need the paper to confirm that, since the article prefaces the table with: “First, participants read and rated 55 statements describing differ…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/16 01:20 AM
1

Congratulations, you won an argument against a point you made up and wrongly attributed to me. I'm sure that was a good use of your time.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/16 10:52 PM
2

Because it isn't the kindness that's attractive. According to...you? What's your expertise on what I think is attractive? If some women say "I think kindness is an attractive trait in a potential partner" and you have to say "No you don't, let me explain what you really think is attractive" in order to maintain your perception on this subject, you might want to reconsider your perception. If he was a kind but financially poor ugly dude, it wouldn't be attractive. If I were to rank a poor, ugly, …
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/16 08:18 PM
1

You know that Sir Mixalot song that goes 'I like big butts (on women I already find attractive)'? What about the Queen one, 'Fat-bottomed girls (who meet a basic standard of attractiveness) make the rockin' world go round'? Beastie Boys: 'All I really want is girls (but not literally any female, only girls I think are attractive)'? No? Me neither, it's because that's not how those songs go. And this article about common male fantasies, gathered from survey responses from 700+ men, see how some o…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/16 08:04 PM
1

Sorry, your distinction is just not reflected in the real world. When talking about partner preferences, men do not preface their answers by saying "Well first she has to meet some minimum level of physical attractiveness." Because again, duh. When a man says he's into nurses or tomboys or girls in glasses, nobody thinks he means literally any female human who's a nurse or who dresses androgynous or who wears glasses. When a man says he wants a girl who can cook, nobody thinks he means an elderl…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/16 03:54 AM
1

I said what I meant, thanks. Genuine kindness goes in the plus column for anybody, whether or not it puts them in the black.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/05/16 09:07 PM
2

Yeah I get the impression wattywat and disposable_pants just really want this to be evidence that women are being dishonest when they say they're attracted to kindness.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/05/16 09:02 PM
2

There's a lot of material out there on the psychological factors in obesity. If you don't understand it, maybe you should start with a google search.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/05/16 08:53 PM
0

I mean, if I had to pick one...an overweight, slouching guy who smells like onion rings and is genuinely nice is still more attractive than an overweight, slouching guy who smells like onion rings and is also a manipulative jerk.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/05/16 08:46 PM
1

Neither of those hypothetical guys sounds attractive enough that I want to sleep with them so neither of them were attractive enough to be successful. What useful information would it provide to try to make someone pick between only two extreme options when that doesn't meaningfully model how the world works?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/05/16 08:07 PM
1

I guess #1 would be the closest approximation. But after the first encounter, isn't that dating with the intention of both of them feeling it out for a potential relationship? I use the term to describe sex with someone I wouldn't say I was dating. I have no interest in having building a more emotionally intimate relationship, officially exclusive or not. When we hang out alone, we might do stuff like get food or watch Netflix but it's first and foremost so we can have sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/05/16 07:58 PM
2

In conversations about romantic relationships and what traits people like in potential partners, it's reasonable to include physical attraction as a given. Co-specifying the presence of physical attraction along with every other preference is just not how anyone, man or woman, has this conversation. It has nothing to do with cognitive dissonance and everything to do with the fact that we generally understand some of the basic common criteria others use for partner selection. What kind of women a…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/05/16 06:56 PM
1

Okay that's a good point. I could explain more about the things he did that I was responsive to. But like you touched on, most of this suff wasn't put into practice until I already had some attraction towards him based mostly on his appearance, although I wouldn't have hit him up if he hadn't been friendly in our previous interactions. Some of the most significant things didn't even happen until after we'd already hooked up. So I could explain this stuff to a guy--theoretically; we're getting in…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/05/16 04:02 PM
1

""what's the best way to turn on a girl and get in bed with her on the first date?" There are a couple ways to approach it. A basic response would be to cast a wide net and put himself in contact with as many girls who are likely to also be looking for casual sex, and make it clear that's what he wants, too. If you want to know why I wouldn't advise someone to be a "player" or a "bad boy," it's because that has the connotation of dishonesty and I have no interest in advising anyone to get what t…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/05/16 08:55 PM
1

I don't know about calling him a misogynist specifically, and I dont think you know that either. But offended? Sure I could see that, I'd be offended. Because if you're positing a situation where some random guy walked up to me and asked me that question, well that's weird and rude. Why shouldn't I be weirded out? Why shouldn't I offer whatever platitude will get me out of an uncomfortable conversation, the same way people give excuses to pushy anhandlers? Or why shouldn't I be annoyed he felt l…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/05/16 04:18 PM
0

Sure sex can be great but don't pretend this is a given in every encounter. No one likes spending their time on disappointing experiences either.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/05/16 02:42 AM
1

This doesn't have anything to do with rape. The argument on one side is that women are advantaged by easier access to sex because no matter who they are, someone will have sex with them. The argument on the other side is that the advantage is dubious if the only sex available to that woman is sex in which she feels like an interchangeable orifice to be used just as a tool to give someone else an orgasm.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/05/16 02:36 AM
1

Counting every date I've ever gone on, from most to least frequent: 1. OKCupid 2. Mutual friends 3. Worked with them The two longest relationships of my life (3 and 4 years respectively) didn't originate from OKCupid.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/05/16 01:46 AM
2

I'm confused about the assumed context in which this advice is being requested. I feel like the actual question being asked, and the relationship between who is asking and who is being asked is really important in determining the response. Without that information it's kind of hard to address this at all.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/16 09:33 PM
1

I can understand valuing utility and not digging into the underlying mechanisms. I hold a lot of beliefs about the way people act that I haven't sit down and written papers on, but they still inform the way I operate, although generally these aren't the things I write about. If you don't have an accurate understanding of why something works, your ability to apply it in another situation may be limited. You did already touch on that in your piano teacher example but I think that's a pretty signif…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/16 07:34 PM
2

I can agree that a person who doesn't make a purposeful effort to examine their behavior and establish better habits in themselves is likely to be of lower quality than someone who does. I can also agree that this lower quality might sometimes be expressed differently in men than women, given the different avenues of expression available to them. I also understand why TRP wouldn't concern themselves so much with discussing bad behaviors in men since like you said, that's not what it's for. So fr…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/16 05:25 PM
1

That's not an accurate summary of my point. You can try again or you can ask about any parts that I might be able to rephrase.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/16 05:23 AM
1

I guess another thing I see frequently is the use of the word outlier to dismiss any perspective or situation that casts doubt on the general truth of TRP's narrative. By definition, an outlier is a point that falls outside the main body of data. If someone doesn't actually have a body of data with which to compare something, they can't really call it an outlier. Another one is what seems to be a muddled understanding of what an instinct is and is not. The more learning plays a role in an indivi…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/16 03:50 AM
1

what if, as I said, it was used as a baseline example of "bad female behavior" instead of "the default natural behavior"? I think the objection comes from in the implication that a given bad behavior is part of an inferior set of innate behaviors unique to women. This is what I expanded on in the previous post but maybe I'm not quite getting what you're asking?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/16 03:29 AM
3

Joke's on you, you just did!!
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/16 08:24 PM
4

I didn't even finish this post. Grow up dude, then maybe we can have a conversation.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/16 08:15 PM
9

OK, so I can see that along these lines of thinking AWALT is fairly offensive to many people. However, if we were to remove any inkling of "motivation" from AWALT behaviors, we would all be OK with it? If it could be shown that the conclusion was based on real data and not a bunch of massively biased and unverified retellings of personal experiences. I don’t know about being “okay” with it but I wouldn’t be able to argue the conclusion didn’t even appear to reflect reality. So I guess what I'm a…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/16 07:21 PM
17

Ethology is my jam so I have no problem examining human behavior with the same methodology used to examine animal behavior. My problem is that TRP's application of the conventions and methods of ethology is sloppy, dishonest, or completely absent. If you want to observe human behavior as if we were any other species of animal, cool. There are rules for doing that and if you don't follow them, your results are probably garbage. An example of this is that even observers of animal behavior have to …
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/16 06:36 PM
1

LMR as a strategy works fine for women. Why do you think it stopped working? Can you show me where I said it stopped working? It's mainly designed to 1. test how the guy handles tension/rejection in an erotic situation, 2. decrease the perceived loss of social status when they have sex with a new partner, and 3. to make the man work harder for his "prize" and thus appreciate it more. LMR does both of these perfectly fine. Also, it can have any number of further goals we don't yet understand. How…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/16 05:57 AM
2

No he's not. "Nobody doubts that rape is worse than somebody sneaking into your home for some midnight gaming. The thrust of the initial post is asking why this is so." In other words: violating someone's right to their body is worse than violating someone's right to their property. Why? Very plainly not the question you're suggesting it is. If you want to talk about that instead, try making a new post.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/04/16 05:56 AM
6

You're essentially asking why people value autonomy over their bodies more than autonomy over their material possessions. Is this genuinely a confusing issue for you?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/16 07:42 PM
1

I'm going to hold off on a response until you answer the questions I asked.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/16 07:33 PM
1

Knock yourself out but understand you're not giving anyone a good reason to think you're credible.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/16 06:18 PM
1

Collecting evidence for someone else's silly claims isn't part of a debate.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/16 07:00 AM
1

What would be your definition of the word 'instinct'? What immutable and uncontrollable instincts do you believe are at play when a woman puts up LMR while actually wanting to have sex? How do you explain the huge variation in values and ideologies from culture to culture and even person to person if 'instincts' do not respond to these things? Why you think we aren't capable of full conscious control of our own sexual behavior? You want people in a position of power to give up that power for not…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/16 04:17 AM
1

Why are you posting in a debate sub if you don't want to actually support the things you're saying?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/16 03:57 AM
1

Okay so you were lying and your initial claim doesn't actually have any evidence. I thinly our existence must be rather bleak.. What?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/16 03:37 AM
1

Not sure what gave you the idea I'd be willing to do something so rude. And since you said "I'm not shitty to anyone I always interact cordially because I choose to act this way." I'm going to go out on a limb and say you didn't do it either.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/04/16 10:38 PM
1

How much time did you actually spend looking for this stuff? I typed "I can't find a boyfriend what should I do" into Google and there are no shortage of results. The very first included advice about sticking to female gender roles, and "If you look like Roseanne, don't fixate on finding a Tom Cruise lookalike." Then I typed in "Advice on getting a boyfriend" and found the second result advises girls to join a club, play a sport, or learn a new skill. That took like 5 minutes so I kinda question…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/04/16 06:41 PM
0

Cool, can't wait to see the verification on that.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/04/16 06:27 PM
1

Well that's not exactly what frottage is, penis-fencing is a lot closer to 'two males dry humping' than frottage, but I guess I misunderstood what your post was about.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/04/16 06:16 PM
0

If you went to 10 fat women and ten fat men you'd see more men would just ignore you and 100% of women will react You keep saying stuff like this with absolutely nothing to back it up. You're making this claim, it's on you to provide the evidence.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/04/16 05:07 PM
1

Penis-fencing is probably a derived behavior for bonobos so there's not much of a reason to assume we, as a closely related species, have the genes for it.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/04/16 04:23 PM
4

You know people are still allowed to construct a marriage like this, right? If a man and woman agree that they share ownership of each others bodies and she feels like it's fulfilling and important that she not deny him access, nobody is going to bust into their bedroom and arrest him for acting on this agreement they made. It won't be rape because she shares his view and won't physically or verbally resist even if she doesn't feel particularly frisky herself. A condition of their sexual relatio…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/04/16 09:19 AM
0

First, nobody brought up "apologizing sincerely" except you. You added that in yourself for some reason. Second, do you have any evidence for that being generally true except for some anecdotes?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/04/16 02:59 AM
2

Sure they do. Did she pick one for her boyfriend? If so, how do you know? If not, that means no one except you is talking about trusting a controlling stubborn man, and you might be arguing against a situation nobody is actually advocating.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/04/16 02:53 AM
1

Who's this controlling stubborn man you're talking about and how does he fit into this discussion?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/04/16 02:44 AM
3

Are you sure coffeedynamics-- or anyone you are disagreeing with-- is actually saying they should/would never voice a concern even if they felt like their partner was making a blatantly stupid and harmful choice about an important decision?
/r/PurplePillDebate16/04/16 11:22 PM
3

Every single day, you put your trust in people because you assume they have superior knowledge in a given subject. When you get your car fixed or put your money in a bank or go to a nice restaurant you're doing this. You kinda assume through the process of getting a job, those who aren't worthy of that trust have been selected out. If a place proves to be a bad selector of trustworthy barbers or veterinarians or whatever, you won't trust them anymore right? But if a person continually shows they…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/04/16 09:09 PM
0

You're telling me men can't accept a no as a no then describing a tactic that involves a man accepting a no as a no.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/04/16 07:10 PM
1

I was a stripper for 9 years. I think that in execution, there are methods of LMR are are both legally sound and rude/scummy as hell, but I can't fault the concept of taking a no at face value and giving some space. I don't associate that concept with pushy sales techniques, although I think the comparison to a pushy sales pitch is apt for TRP in general. Maybe some people have been on the receiving end of tactics that got them to consent for reasons besides sexual desire and they have a better …
/r/PurplePillDebate15/04/16 09:03 AM
1

In your first post, you advocate ignoring a woman until she initiates. In your second post, you condemn completely backing off. What exactly are you imagining when you say completely backing off, the guy jumping up and booking it out of the house ASAP? Pretending she's invisible for the rest of the night? Because I don't see a distinction between what TRP advocates and backing off, whether it be by deescalating sexual contact or by ignoring her until she comes to you. You're claiming that a woma…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/04/16 08:52 AM
6

You can recognize that you didn't successfully resist manipulation and resolve to try to change that in the future while still recognizing the person who manipulated you was being a selfish piece of crap.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/04/16 08:04 AM
1

Women are going to "do what they do" even if it results in them consistently not getting what they want? Why would that be the case? A freeze out is exactly what I'm talking about. Backing away from someone who just said no is a completely reasonable response. If it was a soft no, then it has resulted in her not getting what she wanted. If she wants to change that, she will have to own her desires enough to initiate.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/04/16 07:18 AM
1

Wow what an amazing contribution.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/04/16 07:13 AM
1

I know. That doesn't change anything about what I said.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/04/16 08:35 PM
2

Let's say you make it clear to someone that they should not hang around you in hopes of an eventual romantic relationship because it won't ever happen, and they choose to hang around you anyway, is it really 'morally great' to cut contact with them for their own good? Or maybe it's better to ask if you think it's immoral not to do so. I'm not sure about this. Of course I can see feeling guilt if you worry you're hurting them with your continued presence. But if you cut contact for their sake, yo…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/04/16 07:04 PM
1

SkinnySweaty's advice is "Ask for sex and proceed if the answer is yes." Your response is that if all men began operating this way, frequency of sex would decrease to a point that humans stop reproducing. Considering how little sex it takes for humans to reproduce at a sustainable level over the course of a lifetime, that seems silly so I assume you don't mean it literally. So taking it figuratively, you're ostensibly saying that if men started consistently asking women if they wanted to have se…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/04/16 05:22 PM
1

Then you have a person who either 1) doesn't know what they want or 2) does know what they want but can't/won't tell you. If 1, can we agree you shouldn't just make sex happen as long as this is true? If 2, you have a bigger problem than whether or not you get laid right then and there. You're with someone who can't or won't communicate what they want-- what do you want to do about that? Personally, if I thought this was out of fear or nervousness, I'd address that issue by finding out if they w…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/04/16 05:10 PM
2

If someone puts up token resistance when they want sex, and they get to have sex anyway, then they got what they wanted even when they indicated the opposite. I don't think people who refuse to communicate what they want, and may actually communicate the opposite, should get what they want. This is not healthy behavior to facilitate in a relationship. It's bad for the person who's allowed to forgo clear communication in favor of coded signals that can result in a lot of harm if not correctly int…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/04/16 04:53 PM
1

Sorry, I think you're going to have a tough time selling the definition of IOIs as "literally any action a person takes while they are experiencing attraction, even if it's functionally indistinguishable from apathy or disdain."
/r/PurplePillDebate14/04/16 04:04 PM
1

I don't think you can assume the expression of normal IOIs comes naturally to a person by virtue of being a woman. Shyness isn't always coy and adorable, in real life it can be painfully awkward for everyone and easily confused with aloofness, boredom, or lack of personality. If a reasonable person would interpret behaviors as one of those rather than attraction how meaningful is it to label them IOIs?
/r/PurplePillDebate13/04/16 03:04 PM
2

If you're seeing RP claims actually presented with a body of data to back it up, like the 95%-5% breakdown in your example, then yeah it's a cop out to say "Well I know this one guy..." as if it it's an argument against those numbers. But it's so rarely the case that RP claims are presented with any body of data like that. Without an actual body of data with which to compare it, how can you call something an outlier? Also, not only are RP claims often presented without an actual body of data, th…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/16 04:45 PM
1

That's not a study, that's a summary of a book by a man with no apparent relevance to or expertise on bird studies, which is what I asked about. There's a free pdf of that book readily available, why did you choose to link that instead? Because they are a model for how monogamy works outside of humans. A model is a label we give to a system we're using to provide a more easily observable, controllable, or less complex instance of a trait we want to learn more about in humans. To say that birds a…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/16 05:49 AM
2

And you think that, "especially if you want to think about it," children of single mothers have a nonpaternity rate of 100%?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/04/16 05:29 PM
1

What do you think they mean by 'nonpaternity'?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/04/16 02:16 AM
3

First: Which bird studies are you referring to and why do you think they are reliable indicators of anything except EPP rates in the species of bird being observed? Second: From a paper cited by the survey as a source for their figure: "...we analysed a dataset consisting of 971 children and their parents in whom human leukocyte antigen (HLA) typing had been carried out in the context of bone marrow transplantation. In this sample, nine exclusions (0.93%) could be identified on the basis of more…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/04/16 02:13 AM
1

Sorry you've had bad experiences, but you're incorrect in my situation. Maybe you'd like to answer again and avoid saying things you can't know or verify?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/16 12:41 AM
1

Does this make you mad or is it something you're okay with?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/16 12:23 AM
1

Then men make terrible friends, since what could I get from a man that I couldn't get from my girlfriends other than sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/16 12:23 AM
2

Its being ignored by politicians just proves my point, that feminists drive women's issues to the front and are happy to ignore men's issues. You have a result: that a draft is still technically legal and politicians don't seem to talk about this much. And you have a proposed explanation for that result: that feminists are somehow able to influence politicians to a degree that they consistently and unjustly prioritize women's issues and ignore men's issues. Reaffirming the result doesn't do anyt…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/04/16 01:08 AM
2

I'm not a very political person. I vote in major elections and sometimes write a letter to a local politician. I have been to a protest. What energy I do have to devote to this stuff has been centered on abortion access and funding for early childhood education. It's true I haven't 'lifted a finger' to change draft legislation. However, the reason is not because I don't give a shit if men die. You know feminists don't live on an isolated women-only island where we're completely unaffected by the…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/04/16 07:37 PM
1

Your main complaint seems to be that whatever feminists are doing in regards to this issue isn't good enough. Feminist organizations releasing statements and feminists voicing support for integration and draft equality-- none of that is enough to convince you they actually mean it, I guess? So what would be enough to convince you of that?
/r/PurplePillDebate01/04/16 06:53 PM
1

Do you mean operant conditioning? I'm sure you've heard discussion about how shame and self-hate can lead to overeating. If it were actually that simple and shame did neatly and consistently discouraged unhealthy habits, anyone who spent a week in high school would have quickly ceased inactivity and overeating. In fact, considering the negative stimulus of shame is already in place and has been for a long time, the problem should already be resolved for everyone. Instead, we have this stuff.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/04/16 02:01 PM
1

Okay, that's a start. Again, low confidence compared to who?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/16 10:23 PM
1

I can agree that pretty much everybody has something they'd probably like to change about themselves and I can agree that someone who inexplicably opens conversations with overblown compliments would probably come off as disingenuous. But I don't see how either of those statements relate to my question, or thoughts on insecurity and TRP.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/16 08:10 PM
2

Actually, humans already have dicks without a bone and larger than those of other primates. I know this. It has nothing to do with whether or not dick size in humans is positively correlated with number of kids. I'm not saying muscles. "Imagine if our bodies instead evolved huge penises or even more muscles. There simply would not be much energy left to power the brain." Did you say this or not? If you don't want to get into a discussion about a particular trait, maybe don't make that trait a pa…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/16 05:55 PM
4

If your premise was true, the most attractive men would also be the ones with the hugest muscles. Without women currently being most attracted to the men with the largest muscles, directional pressure from sexual selection would not occur. I'm pretty sure fit men with moderate muscles are more widely appealing than bodybuilders. As for the dick size thing-- show me that men with bigger dicks have more kids, then we'll talk about the CMV part.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/16 03:37 PM
1

You deny that clubs, bars, parties and other similar places are not the most common meeting area for casual sex? I deny that there's one type of club/bar/party, where one type of guy (the muscled dickhead) is always going to be the most successful. I live in a big city with a healthy hipster scene, among others. Take a guy who is successful at a dance club next to a college and put him in a quiet microbrewery with an early-30s crowd, how do you think the game changes for him? I also don't want t…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/16 02:55 PM
1

If only there were places besides clubs in your particular area where people were meeting others who were interested in casual sex... Very rarely do I see any ONS decide to sleep with a man because one held the door open for her and the other did not. It's almost always because he is funnier, more confident, better looking, or more charismatic. How often do you have the opportunity to observe a woman pick a partner for casual sex and then interview her about why she made that choice? Anyway, thi…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/16 05:41 AM
1

To be fair, that sounds like a statistic you made up on the spot. Low confidence using what measuring stick? Men? Other women?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/16 05:30 AM
1

This isn't going to be worth my time. Have a good night.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/16 05:28 AM
5

Do you have any evidence to indicate people actually adopt healthier eating and exercise habits when they are shamed and ridiculed by the general public?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/03/16 08:49 PM
1

Yes I know a woman wrote The Manipulated Man. This doesn't in any way exempt it from being misogynistic. Sorry you've had bad experiences with trusting people. This is not related to my point. If TRP stopped at recommending self-care and personal responsibility, I wouldn't have a problem with it. You and I both know there's more to it than that. Among other things, it also asks people to accept that women are emotional and mental inferiors to men. I would like to see how you can spin the belief …
/r/PurplePillDebate21/03/16 08:42 PM
1

I quoted the insults. Yes, that's exactly what I am saying. Like I said, if you can read The Manipulated Man, among other links, and not consider it a piece of literature constructed on hatred and mistrust of women, you have a huge amount of explaining to do. I don't think masagonistic is actually a word. Someone who mistrusts all people equally is misanthropic, not misogynistic or misandric. I don't think that's a good approach to encourage in people either, but since I don't think TRP applies …
/r/PurplePillDebate21/03/16 07:09 PM
1

In what way do you think the definition of misogyny supports your point? And that's a bold statement to say it pushes that on everyone or that everyone falls on it. What? Rather a childish and naive viewpoint Appending your post with irrelevant insults is, of course, not at all childish.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/03/16 06:55 PM
2

So you believe TRP strategies are most effective on people with low self-confidence? This is something BP has brought up many times, and something that holds true in my own experience, but it seems like most Red Pillers don't agree.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/03/16 04:36 PM
1

Good try. That's like saying a feminist might have some questionable views about men because they frequent a subreddit with hateful, false, and degrading material about men in the sidebar...which would be a perfectly reasonable thing to say.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/03/16 03:44 PM
2

If you say so.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/03/16 03:43 PM
2

What information are you using to make that conclusion?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/03/16 03:43 PM
1

I'm going to guess you're not going to have a lot of luck with LTRs, or any ongoing social relationship, unless the other person wants to be around you.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/03/16 03:41 PM
5

If you live in a place where men only come in two diametrically-opposed archetypes, I'm afraid we're not going to have a productive conversation. The place I live is very different. Also, you ignored the parts about sexlessness and infidelity.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/03/16 05:36 AM
2

How would you estimate the success of a confident, cool, interesting, nice guy compared to a confident, cool, interesting, not-nice guy? All else being equal, don't you think everyone would prefer to be around someone who is kind vs someone who is not?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/03/16 05:30 AM
4

The whole "minus the last part" is my entire point.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/03/16 05:23 AM
5

I'm sure there are plenty of members who enjoy treating women like absolute trash. If TRP allows them to do that, so what? You can't honestly be in the dark as to why people would have a problem with this, so why pretend?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/03/16 03:51 AM
4

I'm actually impressed you can claim TRP isn't misogynistic when the sidebar contains material like The Manipulated Man.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/03/16 03:49 AM
8

It excises some pretty fundamental tenets of the TRP version, such as the belief that when a woman settles down with the stable dad-type, she will trap him in a miserable, sexless marriage while fucking or at least wishing she could be fucking Chad on the side. The rephrasing doesn't only put these ideas in polite language, it completely drops their most noxious aspects.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/03/16 03:46 AM
1

I'm not trying to persuade or be persuaded, I'm trying to figure out why he thinks what he thinks. Again, the problem is that there doesn't seem to be any coherent explanation for that, either.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/03/16 09:55 PM
1

I don't see how competing for status reduces the likelihood or importance of exercising common courtesy when sharing environments with other people. You might be trying to outperform the guy at the next desk but that's not the same as cutting in front of him in the coffee line. I also don't see how wanting many good relationships reduces the likelihood or importance of having lots of admiration for other peoples' characteristics and achievement. I'm getting a lot of just-so stories to explain th…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/16 08:12 PM
1

The survey does not show that there is a masculine and feminine definition for respect. It shows that BP and RP have different tendencies when presented with the concept of respect in this context, a PPD survey. There may indeed be overall gendered trends for what definition people immediately associate with respect, but that's beyond the scope of this survey. I get what he believes, I think, but none of his explanations for why he thinks that way actually make sense to me. For instance, I asked…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/16 07:18 PM
1

If your sarcasm was warranted then it implies other conclusions. If not, cool, whatever. I’m still not exactly sure what you’re looking for here, so if you could answer my question about which statements you’re actually referring to with the warranted sarcasm thing, and maybe explain what these possible conclusions are, that would probably help. Like I said, I've stopped taking advice from women and switched to taking advice from men who are successful with women. Works much better. Great. Doesn…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/16 07:43 AM
1

You don't seem to have any idea what would constitute evidence or even a solid line of reasoning for why you believe these things, so I don't think this conversation is going to be a good use of my time.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/16 04:48 AM
1

You dodge the point that either your previous sarcasm was warranted or it wasn't. You can't have it both ways. What remark, specifically? What is changed by the appropriateness of sarcasm or lack thereof? So you're saying that you, as a man who was a sexual failure, have determined that TRP strategies and advice are demonstrably ineffective? No you aren't saying that because that's not who you are. I’m saying it as a straight woman who has dumped a boyfriend and cut contact with a friend for swa…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/16 04:36 AM
1

That does nothing to actually explain why you're right. It's stuff that you'd also need to back up, then explain how it supports your position. Gallup poll showing the label "feminist" does not enjoy the support of the majority of the population, and even feminism itself is nowhere near uniformly accepted - so why is any alleged characteristic of feminism an explanation for "inherent" thought in women and feminine men? And what makes you think feminism is incompatible respect of strength and abi…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/16 03:50 AM
3

Thinking egalitarianism is a good goal is not the same thing as having a belief, shaped by experience, that there are a number of personality metrics on which men and women score about the same. The latter is not really an example of someone forming or pursuing an ideal, but reporting the conclusions they've reached based on their experiences. Exactly like you did, I assume. I just know it will never be completely equal and TRP helps me understand the world without getting angry at it. Again, wi…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/16 03:30 AM
1

From your previous sarcasm you must have simply asked them any questions you had, and taken the answers at face value. And those answers must have worked out for you. Again, you've never had a need to come up with answers on your own. But once more, your experience is that asking = getting Oh is that what my experience is? That's what my needs have been? Cool, good to know. Must be nice to be immune to the empathy and perspective problems stemming from a lack of shared experience. Instead you ha…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/16 03:22 AM
2

I asked you why you think that's the case and you essentially repeated yourself without offering anything to back it up.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/16 11:15 PM
2

You think I've never had a need to understand more about how/why my actual and potential romantic partners think and feel? How half the population thinks and feels? I don't talk over them to tell them how they think and feel while they're trying to explain why I'm wrong. That fits pretty well with actually trying to understand them.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/16 11:09 PM
1

I know that a significant chunk of BP users are male. I don't know how many are sexually successful or not. As for me, personally, no I don't know what that's like and I never will. So I don't spend my time creating or consuming an ideology that tells men how they think, feel, and act, particularly in the face of express disagreement from many of them.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/16 09:36 PM
3

What makes you think that's the case, and why might that be? Everyone exercises both forms of respect. Why would the definition depend on the gender of the reader, not the context? Personally, I picked a combo of consideration and common courtesy not because I feel it's feminine or because I'm a woman or whatever. I picked it because I live in a big city and I spend most of my day among various big groups of people from classmates to coworkers and my students to people I ride the bus with, so th…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/16 08:52 PM
6

This goes back to my first post in which I said you have to assume they are not reporting their experiences accurately in order for their views to be idealistic rather than realistic. If my experiences have led me to believe neither gender is more mature or honorable (and they have) then how is that idealism? Without proof, labeling common BP views idealistic is kinda empty because the same criticism could be just as easily directed at TRP. What if I said I think Red Pillers are idealistic becau…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/16 08:42 PM
9

The survey shows that nobody chose the answer "There are no significant differences in behavior." So that's not correct. So BP tended to choose answers indicating they don't believe there's a significant difference between men and women in maturity, intelligence, honor, and a few other traits. Why do you label that idealistic?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/16 07:02 PM
3

I can see that interpretation too. I'd be interested to know if there's an overall gendered difference in which definition people think of first when given no context.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/16 06:24 PM
7

Can you explain why you think BPers are idealists? I might be working with the wrong understanding of this.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/16 06:22 PM
2

Thanks for your input, that would be why I asked for clarification.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/16 05:20 PM
5

Only if you assume they're not reporting their experiences accurately.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/16 04:55 PM
5

Does this mean you consider common courtesy and consideration for others to be feminine, and admiration for others' achievements to be masculine?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/16 04:54 PM
-1

Cool, good for you. How is this relevant?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/16 06:46 AM
0

If we're talking about the general population, seems like your bar for "many" is pretty low, but okay.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/03/16 09:09 PM
1

What's your basis for thinking that many men get zero sex?
/r/PurplePillDebate13/03/16 07:55 PM
8

Okay. I'm trying to substitute some of the activities associated with those identities like you did in your OP, maybe I'm taking it too literally. But, for example, I think it's attractive if a guy works with animals. I think it shows some nurturing and empathy and I work with animals too. But I don't find myself thinking that talking about what his favorite elephant did that day actually makes me horny, or watching him prepare their diets actually makes me wet. I'm not sure how/if an absence of…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/03/16 06:05 AM
12

Nerdiness isn't literally an aphrodesiac for me-- I can't think of any interest/hobby that actually is-- but it's a quality I like in a person. In a friend, a boyfriend, or just a conversation partner. I like it because I like video games and I'm getting a STEM degree and I prefer to have more stuff in common with someone vs less stuff in common. A level of nerdiness roughly comparable to mine goes in the plus column for me. Anyone who finds it a turnoff probably just doesn't have an interest in…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/03/16 05:40 AM
2

Haha I meant Johnson's recent movies San Andreas and Furious 7- probably shouldn't have said FF- but the point is the same for Final Fantasy and GTA I suppose.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/03/16 04:54 AM
1

Okay I agree with that, the nature of online dating can give someone a sense of their SMV that doesn't necessarily match their value in other situations.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/03/16 05:52 PM
1

Did you reply to the wrong comment? I'm not sure what that has to do with my agreement that Red Pillers film themselves picking up women using TRP strategies in real life.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/03/16 05:38 PM
1

Yeah, this is not new. It's also not a trope unique to a female audience, think about all the movies and shows where a hot girl falls for the male lead even if he's not super attractive, or the movies/shows with totally loyal hot wives/girlfriends. I think it's a common fantasy to want to feel like you can still have a desirable partner who loves you no matter what you do. Isn't this the idealized version of love described in the TRP sidebar or outlined in the response in askmen describing the m…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/03/16 07:26 AM
1

So the increased unbelievability of Christian Grey's status is the hyper-masculine part? I think that might be more easily attributed to juvenile storybuilding skills and I'm not sure it trumps the major case of oneitis which is instrumental to his appeal, and as I understand it is the death of masculinity according to TRP. I don't think the guy who plays Thor is that much more attractive than most beautiful men I see in real life. But most people you and I see in real life are not beautiful. Wh…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/03/16 06:40 AM
1

That doesn't seem to fit wih any definition of objectification I have ever heard, generally it requires a person to be the focus of objectification, not something immaterial. How do you turn an occupation into an object? You still sound like you're describing fetishization. Haven't you heard people talk about having lumberjack fetishes or cheerleader fetishes?
/r/PurplePillDebate12/03/16 06:06 AM
1

Yeah all that test will tell you for certain is how much that guy wants to fuck you. I thought of half a dozen guys I know in real life who clearly added points to their partners where he took them away. I play dodgeball with a guy who has a foul mouth and is insanely competitive. His fiance is very similar, they wouldn't get along as well if she wasn't. I dated a rich guy who put a lot of weight on fashion, he clearly appreciated it when I bought the right labels and often asked me what brands …
/r/PurplePillDebate12/03/16 05:57 AM
2

Tinder may offer a skew compared to say, the bar scene but I'm puzzled about how you can literally place it in the same category as a piece of media. It's still a form of socializing with other humans.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/03/16 05:43 AM
4

Yes I would very much like to see some TRP strategies in action please. At least give us a chance to call you fakers before you accuse us of doing it ;)
/r/PurplePillDebate12/03/16 05:38 AM
2

I don't know how many women want or expect partners with The Rock's physique. I like the guy but he's not the name that comes up when I hear women talk about their ideal guy. San Andreas, FF7, etc, weren't exactly geared towards women. I think media portrayals of romance in general might give everybody unrealistic expectations of other people and what it takes to be successful. I am not sure if or how 'hyper-masculinization' might play in, especially when that type of stuff is generally for a ma…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/03/16 05:32 AM
1

How can you sexually objectify wealth? Do you mean wealth is being fetishizing and if not can you explain more?
/r/PurplePillDebate12/03/16 05:18 AM
3

Can I ask how old you are? This is not the reality of social media in my life. I can see what my male friends like and comment on and what my female friends post and overt compliments like this are just not the norm, much less at the frequency you're suggesting, and when they do happen they're most often directed at above-average women or at least photos where someone's made a special effort in her appearance. I also see women complimenting and liking guy's photos. This alleged behavior was not …
/r/PurplePillDebate12/03/16 05:15 AM
5

Willingness to communicate emotions and not feeling the need to be dominant for its own sake are two things that come to mind for me.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/03/16 05:06 AM
1

That's cool, I don't see how it disproves anything about my post or the OP though?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/03/16 04:53 AM
1

I might do that if I was the one making the claims.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/03/16 04:52 AM
1

You need something if you want your claims on this to mean anything.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/03/16 06:56 PM
1

Let's say someone phones up your grandpa and gets him to buy something. The salesman tells lies to get his sympathy, makes him scared of what will happen if he doesn't buy in, and wears him down till he's confused. None of this is because the salesman gives a shit about your grandpa or what's good for him, he's just doing whatever's not technically illegal so he can get your grandpa's money. Do you just shrug your shoulders and think, well that's his morality, really I'm just holding myself back…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/03/16 05:40 PM
1

So, how much do you actually know about this?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/03/16 05:17 PM
1

I am not jealous of men, let's put that assumption to bed right now. Also, if men made easy money from their looks they would stop being productive? Can you show this is currently the case with men or women who do make a living off their looks? I was a stripper and used the money to pay for my degree. Most of the women I worked with were paying for their own aspirations, many weren't ones I thought were especially interesting or ambitious but they had goals and were working to get them funded us…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/03/16 05:16 PM
1

There's some really interesting and important stuff women can learn from her experience and I definitely try to take it to heart when I deal with guys, especially in the dating world. There's also a lot of stuff that doesn't ring true to me, as a woman with a sex drive and as a former stripper. Those are her own feelings which is fine but shouldn't be weighed more heavily than that. Also, let's not skip the parts where she witnesses some of the scary hostility from men towards women and non-masc…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/03/16 05:04 PM
1

There's no need to act like I'm demanding something unfair from you here. I asked if women are screwing themselves over by not selling their bodies and you said yes, if not doing so makes them miserable. That was an 'if' not realized in this post, so cool, your thoughts are noted, now moving on...
/r/PurplePillDebate10/03/16 04:31 PM
3

Why does it matter if a lady or if someone with a BP flair agrees with you? Unless you think she's bitter and unhappy about the work she has to do, not the perception that her life is easy because she's a woman, I don't see how that's relevant.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/16 11:34 PM
7

And if a woman should have aspirations beyond not being homeless and hungry? Like, you know, an education, a skill, a fulfilling career, financial independence...? Or can we all just tell our bosses, professors, and landlords that we'll be exchanging sex for money and passing grades from now on?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/16 11:12 PM
5

This thread is an argument against the assumption that she has it easy because shes a woman, not a rant about how unhappy she is.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/16 11:04 PM
2

In my opinion, TRP strategy is exactly what you all keep saying it is: whatever a guy thinks will get him what he wants. Depending on the guy, this could mean anything from getting fit and cultivating some self-respect, to learning how to exacerbate a girl's insecurities and ignore her signs of discomfort or unhappiness to get her to do what he wants. My basis for thinking RP SS can easily be immoral comes directly from the things RPers talk about doing to women, often in the form of FRs. I can …
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/16 10:58 PM
2

All you have to do is look great and be interesting, If this is all there was to TRP, I wouldn't be here, but we both know there's a lot more to it.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/16 10:46 PM
6

Are you saying you think women are shooting themselves in the foot by working hard to be self-sufficient and successful on their own instead of trying to rely on men to support them?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/16 10:41 PM
16

She didn't even say anything about thinking life is easy mode for men. In fact she said the exact opposite.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/16 10:35 PM
-1

And what kinds of things could a man do if he was willing to burn his morals to the ground and do some soul-crushing dirty work? Take a minute and use your imagination. Do you want people to assume you could flip a switch and be that guy, then piss on you if you choose not to?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/16 10:32 PM
1

Murdering somebody might have a lot of benefits for you if you don't give a shit about the other people you're hurting when you do it. Assuming you do, that means you're willing to forgo a benefit to yourself to avoid exacting a cost on other people. Choosing when and how to try to fuck somebody is no different. Not fucking that 19-year-old might have a lot of benefits for that 19-year-old if you have to use strategies designed to wear down her self-esteem, intimidate her, create a sense of obli…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/16 10:23 PM
0

Is that your elaboration of what the point is? The point of the phrase "the sexual marketplace is amoral" is "there's nothing wrong with this generic fictional example of an older man pursuing a 19-year-old"?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/16 10:01 PM
0

"You might stick to your values, but those who have sex .. have sex." "...whether or not we like the methods used- whoever procreated made children." "But we're also told that an older man courting a young impressionable 19 year old is immoral because of the age gap- he's too influential, it would be coercion. Tell me, if we avoid doing this out of our sake for morality- where is our benefit in this social contract?" That's not the point. Go on...
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/16 09:19 PM
1

No, I don't agree that sexual strategy immoral and I don't think it is for most people. The purported effectiveness of a behavior does not excuse the damage it does.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/16 08:52 PM
1

I think you need to reread this conversation to remind yourself of what its topic actually is. I explicitly stated my argument more than once, and you are continually bringing in other elements that are beyond its scope. I started this conversation with someone else about how TRP encourages readers to adopt toxic beliefs. Trying to separate PUA and LTR TRP strategies doesnt disprove that, because my point is that both are often damaging. Saying other things are toxic too doesn't disprove that, b…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/16 07:08 PM
-1

Name-calling: the true hallmark of a strong argument.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/16 05:03 PM
1

TRP doesn't shy away from anything that might work. Yeah, so you all keep saying. My problems with TRP are based on its lack of ethics, not it's effectiveness. Both of those have fuck all to do with "dread game." I said this: TRP strategies include...hitting on a woman's less attractive friend to confuse her and make her feel less confident And you said this: I have never seen this advocated outside of "nuclear-level dread." I gave you some examples of how hitting on a girl's friend is being adv…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/16 05:55 AM
1

Maybe. Are there TRPers who are fragile, immature, and vindictive? Undoubtedly. Are there BPers who are fragile, immature, and vindictive? Absolutely. Okay. I wouldn't recommend they take the red pill either. I can tell you I was far more fragile, immature, and vindictive before I transformed myself into what you would now call a "RP man." That had everything to do with me and my ability to function well with women, not whether I "believed" RP or not. Like I said, that's super cool and everythin…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/16 12:26 AM
2

I'm not sure how it could be coincidental, as I explained the relationship in the "this is because..." part.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/03/16 03:20 AM
1

That's what you don't want. I'm not sure this describes what I want. The emotional payoff of my relationships is directly related to the amount of power the other person has to hurt me by ending the relationship. This is because I felt they were valuable and unique enough that I was willing to give them the power to set boundaries I would agree to follow to maintain the relationship.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/03/16 08:57 PM
1

This is a thread about whether or not relationships are 'power games.' If you want to define 'power games' in a way that includes relationships in which power is willingly and equally distributed rather than competed for, okay but then I'm not sure how much meaning the term retains.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/03/16 08:46 PM
5

So in a relationship where both partners have set roughly equivalent boundaries, then both partners would have actualized roughly equivalent levels of power.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/03/16 08:33 PM
1

Yes. If you have two people who are both capable of assuming a level of risk to help someone, it's not fair that one feel more pressure to actually do it just because of their gender. I think it would be a good thing to encourage bravery and selflessness equally in boys and girls.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/03/16 07:39 PM
4

I'm sure I could find some examples, but that's not my point. I haven't said anything about the frequency of, and response to, shame directed at men. That would be me taking what I experience as a woman and using it to tell you what you experience as a man, and that would be silly.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/03/16 07:25 PM
9

Isn't being attracted to anything inherently selfish? How can you be 'unselfishly' attracted to something? If you're attracted to someone who looks good, isn't that just 'selfishly' being attracted to the body they can give you access to?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/03/16 07:15 PM
13

Neither is a government-sanctioned and organized police force.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/03/16 07:09 PM
4

You're acting like there's a huge backlash everytime a woman is subjected to criticism for her choices and that's just not the case.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/03/16 07:05 PM
6

Anyone who thinks women aren't shamed for tons of things is suffering from a serious lack of perspective.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/03/16 06:52 PM
1

What if neither parent wants to be that parent, because they're too busy paying attention to the "obvious solution" of trying to have a career? This is an issue of personal communication, not a problem with the proposed solution of mitigating some of the factors that make it difficult to work and raise kids. If someone has no intention of being a full-time parent, they shouldn't partner up with someone who also has no intention of being a full-time parent unless they both agree it's a good solut…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/03/16 05:07 PM
2

This is exactly why I don't want to date a single dad. With no other context given, the only thing I know about a single dad is that he has a kid. That's enough to make me expect that I won't be able to identify with his priorities and that we're in fundamentally different places in life. That's very different from shitting on their worth as human beings, which is the kind of response it seems this topic was created to address.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/03/16 07:45 PM
1

What made you decide lifestyle has no impact on lifespan or level of health? If you're interested in someone who's active, fit, and invested in healthy eating, you probably have a better shot with them if you have something in common rather than polar opposite values and lifestyles. If you're interested in someone who doesn't give a shit about that, works in an office then comes home to Kraft Mac n cheese and their Xbox, yeah you're probably fine. So what made you conclude in the first place tha…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/03/16 05:14 PM
1

Explaining your opinion that single mothers are sub-par doesn't show they are sub-par. There might be something to the selection of each group especially if we're only talking about custodial parents. But that still doesn't mean your opinion is enough to evidence that. Edit: You'd be surprised if there was a poorly educated man out there having irresponsible sex that resulted in children with numerous different partners, when he was not capable of supporting those kids? Really?
/r/PurplePillDebate01/03/16 05:00 PM
2

If I was ever dating a guy who would like to be proposed to more than doing the proposing. I'd be good at it.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/02/16 08:44 PM
0

Can you show that single mothers are worse, by virtue of having kids and not being in a relationship?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/02/16 08:27 PM
1

Fair enough, I don't want to put words in your mouth. You do identify with an ideology that facilitates that mindset though. I would be pretty worried by something like that in a community I was a part of. It's completely possible to explain why men with certain goals would be better off not dating women with children without being so strenuously hateful about it.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/02/16 07:19 PM
1

Yeah I would like the chance to experience lots of things different from what I currently can. I don't know how being hornier is supposed to prove men are better than women. You go on to describe a guy who sounds very easily distracted with his priorities focused on sex and not bettering his abilities in anything. I also don't know how that's supposed to excuse systemic oppression against women especially laws and social norms in the past and in other places.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/02/16 07:13 PM
2

What TRP means for me as a woman is to stay the hell away from anyone who indicates they think it's a good guide for dealing with me. That's about it.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/02/16 07:04 PM
6

I'm not interested in being a step-parent either but I'd be pretty grossed out by the sentiment that single fathers are human scum.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/02/16 06:56 PM
1

I didn't post because I want to play Jeopardy. Why are you in a debate sub if you just want to make people guess what you're thinking?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/02/16 06:35 PM
1

That's great. I don't doubt anything about your personal story and it's cool you found something to improve your relationship, but it doesn't change anything about what I said in my previous post: TRP says lots of appalling things about men and women and is only concerned with getting Red Pillers, not women, what they want. My personal story is that when I was 20, I got into a 4 year relationship with someone who was into the manosphere and it was fucking awful. He was older than me, found me at…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/02/16 06:36 AM
2

I think the reason you will hear RPers making claims to that effect is that men will often love a woman just because she is hot, or (in the case of more pathetic and unattractive men) just because she will fuck him. I wouldn't argue this, I've seen it happen. Women might not be as likely to 'love' a guy just because he will fuck them, but women are certainly capable of loving a man (or at least wanting to be with him) for equally simple and self-serving reasons. So when I see people talk about m…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/02/16 06:15 AM
1

Yeah there are lots of things that are getting better, which is cool. Awareness of, and resistance to, inequality, is more widespread now too. How do you imagine feminism is responsible for women being unhappy?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/02/16 06:08 AM
2

Yes, definitely from feminism and not even possibly from the existence of actual inequality.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/02/16 02:51 AM
4

I agree that nobody deserves to be loved just for existing. I definitely think the concept is silly. That's why I'm confused by repeatedly seeing Red Pillers imply that men can and do love women this way.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/02/16 02:03 AM
1

You can insist on that as much as you want but when the sidebar is filled with material that says some seriously disgusting stuff about men and women, and when discussion focuses on how to get Red Pillers what they want even if it involves deliberately cruelty and manipulation, it rings pretty hollow. I would really like you to show me a FR where a man uses TRP strategies to treat a woman with love and respect.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/02/16 01:47 AM
1

That's great. That's not the point either. You stepped into a conversation between me and the OP, which started with them saying TRP is just place for guys to vent frustration and hook up with girls in a fun, exciting way and nothing more, and that I'm making too big a deal out of it. I disagreed, on the grounds that it also asks people who adopt TRP to believe women are stupid and immature. These beliefs lead many subscribers to interact with others in deliberately hurtful, negative ways. (I ed…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/02/16 12:09 AM
1

We're in a sub made for people to share and critique thoughts on TRP. I'm responding to post in which someone makes incorrect guesses about what I think, and my responses include what I actually think, which is that holding prejudiced ideas about other people is not a good thing. If you consider that thought policing, or are otherwise troubled by it, you might want to ask yourself if you should be in a debate sub. Now, if thinking about someone in a "shitty way" leads to bad interactions, then t…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/16 11:15 PM
1

Why are you so concerned with hypotheticals? The OP said he doesn't think RP wants to transform society and I think that's not true. If you want to frame that as being too concerned with hypotheticals, okay I guess. Why? Because thinking women are stupider and more immature than men is not based in reality and is a shitty way to think about other people. I'm not interested in trying to explain this to you if you fundamentally disagree that there's something wrong with misogyny, because it would …
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/16 09:44 PM
1

You'll have to evidence that separately, since difference in average testosterone levels doesn't automatically translate to 'vast' differences in behavior. Remember that thing about there being many other factors modifying behavior. More than one of the studies in your Google scholar list report that increasing tesosterone in men had no effect in some or all of the areas measured. Even if it did, this whole conversation is about how you want to be able to say that since women all have two x chro…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/16 03:28 AM
2

Since lack of overlap doesn't address my point, I'll clarify. Within women, there will be variation in hormone levels. So, even if you want to keep pretending we can ignore all the other factors that modify behavior and use hormone levels alone, then there will also be variation in behavior within women, to go along with the variation in hormone level. The same variation in hormones and behavior will also exist within men as a group.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/16 12:28 AM
2

If not giving them what you think they want meant acting like a kinder, more generous, or more ethical person...yeah, it kinda would make you a better person. Unless kindness isn't a factor in how you personally determine who is a good person. Some women would be turned on by a guy who steals shit for her or picks fights in bars to show how tough he is. Not giving them what they want does make you a better person than you would be if you did. Why is cutting down on basic kindness any different? …
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/16 10:22 PM
1

I feel bad for anyone who is not able to get the human affection they want. I've had that problem for sporadic periods, like many people, and to actually have it be chronic sounds hellish. But someone who decides to solve that problem by fostering the dehumanization, manipulation, and misunderstanding of other people has exceeded the limits of my sympathy.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/16 10:17 PM
2

Testosterone levels vary between men and between women, meaning behavior will be different within those groups as well as between them. Your own argument, that we can use hormone levels as primary predictors of behavior, makes it impossible for AWALT to be true because women do not have uniform hormone levels and neither do men. Other factors can modify the behavioral effects of testosterone and other hormones and must be controlled for.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/16 10:02 PM
2

Nope, not that either. Many other things besides testosterone influence behavior.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/16 08:33 PM
2

Please don't act like that was a genuine or worthwhile answer in any way. It was a dismissive and sarcastic quip, and you still haven't given an actual answer. Arguing that men sacrifice too much for women doesn't support the argument that men are capable of loving women for no other reason than existing as a woman. If that was the case, what would stop men from loving all women regardless of their other characteristics? I don't think anyone can, or should be, capable of loving another person ju…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/16 08:27 PM
1

That would be a great response if I was trying to say testosterone has no effect on behavior. Good thing that's not part of my argument at all.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/16 08:23 PM
1

I'd prefer you keep your descriptions of what women are like to the level of general applicability that you can actually verify and evidence.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/16 07:23 PM
2

No, showing that women sharing the trait of having XX chromosomes does not show that they also share any other behavioral trait by default. Hormones don't exert their effects in a vacuum. They have complex networks of synergistic, antagonistic, etc. interactions with other hormones and their expression is regulated by many other factors both internal and external. Also, sex hormones aren't by any means the only factor that determines behavior.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/16 06:51 PM
1

This is way above my pay grade. It's awful that you feel this way and I hope you have some help trying to get to a better place. Social interactions are scary and confusing even for neurotypical people and I can't imagine how much more difficult it is to try to figure everything out with autism. But I am gonna say I don't think it's going to help you deal with hate, fear, and envy to internalize the beliefs that women are stupid, inferior, and useless beyond their ability to provide sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/16 06:40 PM
0

You might be right or wrong about the easiest way to get laid, depending on the person, but I don't think there's anything wrong with having that as a goal. The mistake is the OP watching people's behavior and attributing that goal to straight men in general.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/16 06:26 PM
2

If neither one notices...is it really unfulfillment?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/16 06:09 PM
1

I don't take cues from a stupid 20-year-old country song I had to google because I've never heard, and neither does any woman I know. If you hang out with women like that, maybe you should stop hanging out with them? Complaining about how bad women are doesn't mean much to me unless you have something besides your personal experience to show that a) your statements are actually true for the population in general and b) women are worse than men in the areas you are complaining about. Otherwise we…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/16 05:45 PM
2

That's not a good way to have a discussion in a debate sub.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/16 05:35 PM
6

Have you ever actually loved a woman just for existing? Not for her appearance or personality, not for her willingness to fuck you or at least the hope that she might. Just for existing. I ask because I have literally never seen a woman be loved just for existing by someone besides her parents so I'm curious where people are seeing this happen so often.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/16 06:58 AM
2

Okay so if you come up with some physiological trait all women share...then what? What have you proven, particularly in relation to this thread?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/16 06:47 AM
1

Are you saying BP-- a sub designed to make fun of TRP-- is treating TRP like a significant social movement? It does not aim to change or transform society One of the very first links in the sidebar is all about how we live in a feminized society and men are better off when they disrupt that by changing how they act. I bet a ton of them would like to see a lot of major cultural changes and if they had the influence to do so, they wouldn't somehow, for some reason, decline to make those changes. B…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/16 04:47 AM
1

The stuff about thinking women are emotional teenagers, thinking any not-technically-illegal method of getting sex is A-okay, and thinking and that every interaction with me is likely to be a disguised attempt to steal his rightful position as controller of the relationship...that stuff might tip me off.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/16 01:52 AM
5

Can you explain what it means to "put too much meaning into TRP"? This seems kind of like a vague statement and I'm not sure if you're argument is really just that people take it too seriously, or if it's more complicated that. Like, what "meaning" is being added that isn't already there? Do Red Pillers not "take it too seriously" when they make major changes in their lives according to the ideology? If all you're really saying is that some people take TRP more seriously than you think they shou…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/02/16 11:29 PM
1

I might be able to give a better answer if you had a more specific context in mind? In general, I assume guys work out or dress up probably for a lot of the same reasons I do. Being attractive to others is part of it but a) I don't assume it's the only reason, and b) I recognize any particular behavior might not be for me specifically or at least the 'type' of person I am. I can't think of anything that would result in significant differences in motivations in men as a group.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/02/16 11:21 PM
2

This isn't an assumption I consciously hold and I hope I don't unconsciously convey it in the way I interact with people...but I'd guess it stems from the idea that men are constantly thinking about sex and will do anything to get it. There's a lot of people who propagate that. Most people who I can remember having explicitly said this to me have been men.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/02/16 09:15 PM
3

I wear makeup in way I like and it gets a positive reception from guys who's opinions on my appearance actually matter. I can put two and two together when it comes to how I present myself and who responds positively to that presentation and so far I'm happy with the results so I don't care to hear what some rando thinks of my makeup. If he doesn't like it, he just excluded himself from my target demographic so it's not for him. So the first explanation applies to me. I feel like I would get les…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/02/16 05:54 PM
2

When a man feels entitled to womens' affections, do you know what that means for the women around him? Harassment, creepiness, boundaries being crossed, or best case scenario, being annoying and making shit weird. When a woman feels entitled to...I guess, a man's affections? do you know what that means for the women around her? Probably not too much of all that stuff. It's not okay from her of course, so she might still be seen as desperate, spoiled, creepy, whatever, but the dynamic isn't the s…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/02/16 10:36 AM
1

Yeah this is definitely an earnest and well-constructed critique and not just a whiny diary entry.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/02/16 10:22 AM
2

What exactly do these entitled men feel entitled to, in this discussion?
/r/PurplePillDebate25/02/16 10:17 AM
1

Who are some people in your life you consider successful? Not only romantically, also people with personalities and achievements you admire. They might be a better place to start than the internet. They're going to have a better idea of your particular shortcomings and strengths, and the social conditions specific to where you live. Do you have anyone who comes to mind?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/02/16 04:18 AM
1

It's not a bonus. I don't ask about a guy's past but if it becomes obvious (for example if he sleeps with or tries to sleep with more than one or two people from my social group) I'm not interested.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/02/16 02:21 AM
1

a red pill man seems like what a woman would want, even if she admits otherwise. Why say this? It seems like you're anticipating some women are going to tell you you're wrong in your estimations about what they like, and you want to dismiss them right off the bat.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/02/16 02:20 AM
1

Okay I can see how that would filter out people you're not interested in. But I still don't get the hate part. There are plenty of kinds of people I don't want to date without me feeling a shred of negativity towards them as a group.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/16 08:42 PM
1

That doesn't do anything to show you are actually right in thinking that 1) overall, women engage in intent-driven psychological warfare with men who are attracted to them in order to extract resources and behavior, and 2) that they do so with greater proficiency than men. Unless your experience has given you the ability to read minds to discern motivation, it doesn't mean much in support of the idea that women are doing things to manipulate men. And unless your experience has produced some evid…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/16 08:39 PM
2

Yeah, none of my partners have ever actually asked this of me.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/16 06:21 AM
2

Do you disagree with these women who don't think they're sluts? Are you more correct than them when putting subjective labels on behavior?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/16 06:20 AM
1

How can he determine if his ballpark is accurate if he doesn't verify? And how many women can someone realistically get to know on this level, then ask about their n count to find out of he's remotely right or not? Where are the guys you know who have done this that make your disagreement based in the real world?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/16 06:10 AM
2

Alimony exists for a reason, to ensure that spouses are compensated if they sacrifice earning potential and employability for the sake of the working partner's. So, in your fantasy, what's the reason a bra tax exists?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/16 06:03 AM
2

Is this something you think is correlated with people with high N counts?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/16 05:54 AM
3

How do you politely talk about how much you hate a kind of person? I'd genuinely like an example of how you get this across over the course of a normal conversation.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/16 05:53 AM
1

Funny, that works equally well for evidence of the exact opposite.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/16 05:51 AM
1

What's your actual evidence for all this?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/16 01:09 AM
5

You have no actual idea why that content was created, you just decided it was pandering.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/02/16 07:15 PM
1

Other people's romantic goals, or lack thereof, don't bother me. I'd expect them to pursue them honestly and safely but that's about it.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/02/16 06:58 PM
2

I can't wait to get these evil genius chess-master abilities instead of this low-grade anxiety and confusion in tough social situations. You seem to know a lot about what instinctive capabilities I should have-- is there someone I can call if they still haven't shown up?
/r/PurplePillDebate20/02/16 06:05 PM
3

So you made an argument incorporating statements you weren't sure were true? Your source says this: "The average work week was 33 hours before the birth and 32 after the return to work reflecting a shift from full-time to part-time work for a minority of women, and a reduction of one-quarter of an hour for full-time workers." I looked at the paper and I don't see anything to indicate women make more mistakes after returning to work. Or is that another speculation based on anecdotes? How come the…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/02/16 03:03 AM
5

the more likely scenario is that she comes back, works for a few months, then leaves due to family issues. Is that actually more likely?
/r/PurplePillDebate20/02/16 01:43 AM
2

No, I live in a place where you can't get around without a car. Spread out, shitty public transit. I have a friend without a car and even that's a pain in the ass sometimes. That's a reason she gives when I've asked why she's not trying to date more.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 10:58 PM
5

I interact with men and women on a daily basis. I have relationships with them, I rely on them for things as friends, coworkers, teammates and classmates, etc. If one group or the other was significantly less mature than the other, it would be apparent. I see nothing to support the idea that men mature to a greater degree than women. As for myself, I'm light-years away from where I was as a teenager and so are many of the other women I've known since that time period. I have not stopped learning…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 08:35 PM
4

I try it every day of my life and it hasn't held up. If we're going to call it a working hypothesis, it needs to be revised to explain why it's wrong so often.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 07:19 PM
7

If you mean you can't prove otherwise because it's just so super true, you first need to show some actual evidence for this. How is maturity measured and what's the data to show women don't do as well as men in those areas? If you mean you can't prove otherwise because it's unfalsifiable, then it's not a theory, it's not even a hypothesis. It's a feeling at best.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 07:10 PM
8

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-new-psychological-abuse-law-a6789271.html: "It must also have had a “serious effect” on the victim. It is explicitly stated that the victim must either “fear that violence will be used against them on at least two occasions” or “been caused serious alarm or distress” enough to disrupt their day-to-day activities." Someone at the top said they were concerned about the vagueness of the law and I can agree with tha…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 06:32 PM
1

I'm not arguing that they are. People on BP believe a lot of different things and I'm not going to bother defending other people's ideas about TRP, just mine.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/16 03:00 AM
5

Aren't you just projecting your own experience onto other people too? There are other men in this exact thread saying they do need affection, what authority do you have to make statements about what they are or aren't like? Just because you went through your isolation "kinda okay" doesn't mean other men wouldn't "wither" in the same situation.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/02/16 04:35 PM
0

I don't think correlation is the word you're looking for. No one here is trying to establish a statistical relationship between drugs and TRP.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/02/16 04:30 PM
2

I appreciate the concern but I'm good :)
/r/PurplePillDebate18/02/16 04:27 PM
2

That's fine, you can think that. There are a lot of things people do that I think are absurd. That's different from saying they're lying when they talk about wanting or having achieved those things.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/02/16 04:05 PM
4

So why should BP people waste their time on it when it will die anyway? Because it's funny. Do you not do anything for fun or something?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/02/16 03:58 PM
3

You don't believe this person is telling the truth about their own experience?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/02/16 03:54 PM
3

Is psychoanalysis really just making up a bunch of stuff about people and telling them that's how they feel and think? I'm sure TBP does it too. It's a trap everyone has to be careful of. TRP is an ideology literally built on a bunch of assumptions about how women think and feel, and invented reasons about why they do what they do. So TBP isn't alone in doing this kind of thing "all the time."
/r/PurplePillDebate18/02/16 03:21 PM
4

You have a long list of feelings, conclusions, and ideas apparently shared by women who post in BP. Women are uncomfortable because of this, women are bothered by that, women imagine this, women have a problem with this, etc. Are these things you actually asked about and confirmed? Or did you decide that's how BP women think and feel because that's how it seems to you, as someone who doesn't actually have any special insight into the state of other peoples' thoughts and emotions?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/02/16 07:21 AM
4

Many feminist spaces seem to focus on a set of issues affecting a predominately rich, young, and white subset of women. I would like that to be different. I work with kids so the enthusiasm gap between boys and girls in education is important to me, so is the way boys are punished for deviating from gender roles at such an early age. I think coming at male gender roles from a feminist perspective could generate a lot of discussion but there don't seem to be a lot of well-established places for t…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/02/16 09:50 PM
1

Where does the power come from? I figured part of the appeal would be her experience and confidence so just trying to figure it out.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/02/16 06:07 PM
2

An older MILF can still look good but I guarantee you that same woman looked better at 18. I guarantee this isn't possible to guarantee with any reliability.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/02/16 06:03 PM
1

In what situations is a mother actually allowed to forbid a father from contacting their kid?
/r/PurplePillDebate12/02/16 02:20 AM
1

How are my hypothetical conditions and more or less 'extremely hypothetical' than your hypothetical conditions? No part of my posts indicate I think someone's actions have no impact on other people's decisions. They just don't get to control what that impact is. I kind of drifted from my initial point. It was all kind of a response to the general impression I get from TRP that a certain set of behaviors will make sure you can get and keep affection from women, and if it doesn't work, you didn't …
/r/PurplePillDebate12/02/16 01:34 AM
-1

What if the woman in the first situation grew up in a household in which abuse was common? What if she came into the relationship with terrible self esteem and is terrified to be alone? These may be things no amount of abuse can overcome, and they are factors outside the man's control. What if the woman in the second situation is incapable or unwilling to commit at that point in her life, for any reason from a huge number of possibilities? What if she's still in a stage where she prefers excitem…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/16 08:07 PM
-1

Honestly this might be a semantic thing. We may not actually disagree on anything significant. My main point is that yes there are things you can do to improve the odds for one thing or another but I think it's not healthy to get into this mindset that your actions are the determining factor, or maybe even a major factor, in other people's decisions.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/16 07:09 PM
2

Take the statement "Most people believe God created humans." Among the people I regularly hang out with, this belief is pretty rare. So I might wonder, is that statement actually true? There's a Gallup poll showing about 70% of people said they either believe in creationism, or they believe God guided evolution. So, there's data to back up the statement even though it doesn't match my experience. That same poll specifies that this belief is less common among college students and younger people. …
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/16 06:52 PM
-1

I saw someone else had already made the same point so I just edited it out, don't want to be redundant. You seem to be assuming I'm a straight man and I'm not. I've been in love and been in long relationships. If you haven't been in one where you do everything 'right' and it still doesn't work, lucky you. I've been on both sides of a situation like that. Other people's emotions and decisions are ultimately beyond your control.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/16 06:01 PM
1

Is there not the obvious caveat to this, that maybe some women are really shitty people? I couldn't say why the author made the choices they did on what to emphasize. Maybe they thought this was an aspect too obvious to be necessary. Maybe they wanted to focus on how even benevolent stereotypes enforce gender roles. Have you seen Hjernevask? I haven't, but personally I don't think it's hard to believe that boys and girls might, on average, have different toy preferences. But since we'll never be…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/16 04:54 PM
-2

If it's true in your own personal experience, then it's a useful piece of information because it's about your own relationship to others and the way the world relates to you. This is true. So I hope you realize how hollow it seems when TRP makes statements about the universal nature of men and women.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/16 04:33 PM
6

I'm not afraid to actually love her - just mindful of making sure she's strongly in love with me. If you think you can "make sure" someone is strongly in love with you, I'm afraid you're setting yourself up for some major disappointment.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/16 04:31 PM
1

Bower bird males don't built nests, their structures are for mate attraction only. The male has no part in raising the chicks. In other species I'm aware of, like the golden eagle, nest-building is something done by both partners. Chimpanzee males, beta or otherwise, don't significantly provision females or infants. I think I kind of get what you're saying about things that might affect human partner choice but the supporting argument is not really sound.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/16 04:21 PM
1

How could an overestimation like this persist for very long or even come to be in the first place? If you're trying to sell a car for 5k and no one wants to buy it, you can either lower the price to what people are willing to pay, or you can keep the car.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/16 04:54 AM
3

I think you're overestimating how common paternal care is in the animal kingdom. Can you give me an example of a species of birds who choose mates in the way you described? I'm not sure TRP considers a man's wealth a provider trait. A man's willingness to start a family and give a big part of that wealth to his family, probably.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/16 03:33 AM
1

"This just circles back to the assumption that women are worth less than men..." Why would you replace that with a completely different thing?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/16 03:23 AM
2

https://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/05/10/faq-but-men-and-women-are-born-different-isnt-that-obvious/ I'm posting that to challenge the assumption that feminism in general includes the idea that men and women are identical except for their genitals. I don't believe men and women are identical, but even if I did, your question could be answered by attributing differences in preference to socialization.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/16 08:47 PM
1

This just circles back to the assumption that women are worth less than men, and doesn't address the problems I have with that assumption especially when it's meant to apply to my experience too and not just theirs.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/16 08:34 PM
1

I'm not sure it's a need that's less important as much as it's a need that's often met by default, so it can often get forgotten. I'm glad to hear it makes sense though, I want to make sure I'm not getting too specific to my own thoughts on this.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/16 08:31 PM
1

That's not an answer to the question I asked.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/16 07:00 PM
1

Yes, I'm just comparing my conclusion to theirs. But their conclusion claims mine is not a possibility; mine doesn't do the same for theirs. If they were around shitty couples, why would they conclude that women are worse than men, rather than just some people are worse than others?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/16 05:32 PM
3

I don't know if feeling safe around someone and feeling protected by them are the same thing. It seems pedantic but I think it might be an important distinction. Feeling safe: I want to feel like a partner is predictable, stable, and kind enough that they won't do anything to me against my will. I assume men want the same thing? You bring up dominatrixes, but a dom-sub relationship is still built on trust, and the dom not doing anything to the sub that's genuinely against their will. I think a g…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/16 04:05 PM
1

I don't want to get too personal but what are you reasons you have decided not to divorce for the time being? What, if anything, from TRP has helped in your situation?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/16 04:30 AM
2

The thing is, there hasn't been a lot of defined metrics and actual elaboration on how they reached the conclusion that women are often worthless. When I look at the couples in my life, they often seemed evenly matched in intelligence, attractiveness, and interestingness. This is by my subjective estimation of course, but it takes into account a pretty large sample. Think about that question for yourself- pick some couples you know off the top of your head. What are their hobbies? How smart are …
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/16 09:41 PM
1

Top comment: Men are worthless unless they work fucking hard to be not worthless. It's possible for women to do this too, just uncommon 2nd top comment: The party line is, more accurately, "Most women are worthless because they get everything they want handed to them without having to actually become valuable." 3rd top comment: Women can bring something to the table (besides sex/arm candy). They just often don't. Should I keep going or do you want to revise your assertion that the top comments a…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/16 08:53 PM
1

That's not a thought process dictated by being a man. That's a thought process dictated by having goals that don't include casual sex. So yes, you would find a man thinking that if he intended to wait for marriage or at least a serious relationship before having sex. And you would find a woman thinking the exact opposite if she just wanted a FWB. I have never made a decision about who I want to sleep with based on that stuff. Your second scenario has already been addressed in my previous post wh…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/16 08:46 PM
1

Take away the dick and all the stuff I want from a male partner can be found outside a relationship too. It doesn't matter that whatever someone is doing, someone else could do. It matters that they're the one actually doing it.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/16 08:20 PM
0

You're not flipping this. If you post was actually an accurate gender-swap, it would mean the original post was concerned with men who say they want women to bring more than a vagina to a relationship. Literally nobody here thinks that's misogynistic. But that's not what the post says. It's concerned with men saying women are currently usually worthless. Many of the top responses reinforce this belief. An actual flip of this would be a woman saying she thinks men are currently usually worthless.…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/16 08:13 PM
1

I'm not sure how the idea that all women technically have the potential to hurt a man is related to the idea that women look for partners of equal attractiveness during ovulation. Yes, this is an example of a behavior that would hurt a guy if he was dating a woman who cheated on him. But an example is not a definition and I'm still not sure what AWALT specifically means to you. Unless I'm mistaken, TRP does not use it to mean all women are the same. There are a couple other points in my previous…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/16 07:19 PM
1

Maybe. I sure wouldn't continue to insist I'm right about a certain thought process in the face of evidence showing most men don't think that way. But how can you be sure you're not thinking like yourself and applying it to all men's situations? For instance, what makes you think 'most men' think in the short term, and consider their best option to be the easiest lay? If I was a guy, honestly I'd be kinda insulted by the statement that I can't/don't make cost benefit decisions in relationships. …
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/16 07:06 PM
1

The link in the sidebar that discusses the concept of women as the most responsible teenager in the room. Could you define your personal interpretation of AWALT, so I can make sure I'm not confused? If a man considered his partner less attractive than himself, wouldn't he also be more likely to become attracted to somebody better?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/16 04:56 PM
1

The first part is all stuff I can understand. I personally don't feel that pressure to that extent. Although I think I become a viable option to a more quality guys the better my job is, it seems like the type of job I have is of more interest than my salary. So I can sure understand the anxiety surrounding this, and I understand wanting a platform to talk about it. However, the sidebar article doesn't really do that. It just says women are by nature incapable of loving men the way they want to …
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/16 04:54 PM
1

I could see that. I haven't read the book so I'm not actually sure what the system is. But I took the online test, it was a concept I hadn't thought of or seen before, and it's been useful. Not in all situations of course but I don't know what would be. Maybe it is basic but I think it's a common problem, like you mentioned.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/16 07:06 AM
1

Your hypothesis about feminism runs counter to the actual sidebar material, which attributes this deficit in maturity to biology. Also, your hypothesis excludes women who live/lived in times and places where feminism doesn't/didn't exist in the same form with the same influence. Your reasons for believing women are emotional teenagers seem totally out of touch with reality to me. So, giving me your reasons why you think this is the case doesn't do anything to convince me that's the case. I keep …
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/16 06:24 AM
1

Do you think this is something that could be helped by learning and talking about the five love languages? It's a product so it's good to take it with a grain of salt. But I've gotten a lot of good out of finding out the ways my partner shows his affection and making an effort to recognize those gestures, rather than only insisting they show affection in a certain way.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/16 06:03 AM
1

There's always going to be variability in options available, within men and within women. That doesn't change a person's tendency to pick the best option from the ones they have. Whether you have 2 options or 200, wouldn't you pick the one you think is best? Who wouldn't? You initially defined hypergamy as the desire to get the best ROI from a partner. If you now also specify that someone must have many options in order to be hypergamous, then you must include men with many options as hypergamou…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/16 05:58 AM
1

Do men not want the best possible deal they can get? There are plenty of married couples in which the man is not the primary provider of material goods. There are also plenty of dating relationships in which the man doesn't appreciably provision the woman-- how many dating couples do you actually know where living expenses are assumed by the man instead of either split if they're living together, or handled separately if they're not living together? Men may still be expected to pay for more date…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/02/16 08:37 PM
5

When you say women who support disabled loved ones are outliers, do you actually have a body of data to indicate that? If so, does it show men behave significantly differently when it comes to how often they support disabled loved ones? If not, why are you making claims about outliers with no data?
/r/PurplePillDebate08/02/16 08:03 PM
3

Since I read that page, I've thought that saying "Women can't love men the they want to be loved" may not be false exactly, but incomplete and unnecessarily gendered. As I understand it, this idealized love men are fantasizing about is unconditional, based on who he is rather than how he behaves. This was explained in the askmen thread someone else linked here. This love most closely resembles the love his parents have, or at least should have, for him. His parents love him even if he endlessly …
/r/PurplePillDebate08/02/16 07:07 PM
6

The gist seems to be that a man wants to be loved for who he is rather than his actions and speech. This is the kind of love parents have for their children. I can't think of any other relationship in which someone's love for another person is, or should be, independent of their behavior. What do we know of who other people are except what they show us through speech and actions? I understand this is a fantasy, which doesn't care about stuff like that. In that light, don't you think it's a fanta…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/02/16 06:52 PM
7

A person acts within the boundaries of generally accepted ethics and doesn't get what they want. They begin acting out of the bounds of generally accepted ethics and begin to get what they want. Should they go back? Yes, if they give a shit about being ethical and not a selfish asshole. As someone who does care about that, of course I'm going to say yes. Getting what you want doesn't excuse acting like an asshole to get it. I can think of a lot of ways I could quickly meet my goals if I started …
/r/PurplePillDebate08/02/16 12:25 AM
1

Educated! How cute. Maybe spend a little more time combing my post history and you'll find the answer. The truth is out there 👽
/r/PurplePillDebate08/02/16 12:09 AM
1

You can think I'm fat if it makes you feel better about yourself. Seems to be a big deal for you. edit: Oh I forgot to add this: :) :) :)
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/16 07:23 PM
1

He was very different from anyone I had been involved with previously, and seemed so confident and strong-willed that I was overwhelmed. Later, I came to realize his behavior was engineered to make other people feel slightly uncomfortable. I was in a place in my life that this behavior made me feel like I had to earn his approval and the privilege of having him make me feel comfortable around him, if that makes sense. So yes, I think his behavior helped rope me in, and I think it gave the illusi…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/16 05:30 PM
1

Sure. I could probably go through the sidebar and find 50 quotes I find false or at least think to be incredibly toxic opinions. But here are some major ones: The "women as emotional teenagers" thing is a big one. I don't agree that sexual strategy is, or should be, amoral, and I don't think this is a defense of any bad behavior. I don't think Pareto's Principle is even a slightly accurate description of gendered difference in sexual activity. And more generally, whenever I read field reports I …
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/16 05:04 PM
1

Yeah. It made me miserable and it did nothing to fix his actual problems either. For a while, he had someone he could easily control, but he was still an insecure and spiteful person and my time with him gave me a lot of baggage to deal with. I dumped him when I took an internship in another state and realized I didn't need him. I occasionally hear about him from mutual friends, and it's not good stuff. This is my biggest example of TRP failing and I think it would be pretty sad if anyone labele…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/16 04:14 PM
1

Yes yes, I think you're very clever for finding my posts in a public subreddit.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/16 09:24 AM
1

That's not a real sub, you seem confused. It's probably your hormones.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/16 09:14 AM
1

Oh honey we both know you'd lose respect for me if I failed a silly shit test like this.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/16 09:11 AM
1

No thanks, I don't waste my time on temper tantrums. Go take a nap or something.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/16 08:55 AM
4

To be fair, apparently this is a "typical girl in college."
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/16 08:09 AM
2

First let's break down this source a little. The author, Kate Taylor, interviewed 60 women at UPenn over the course of one school year. The article features the perspectives of several of them specifically: A: chose FWB relationships because she's always busy and the people she's interested in are always busy, too. Pallavi: dated but wasn't certain enough about her future to commit to anyone or ask anyone to commit to her. M: came to college planning to wait until her first relationship to have …
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/16 08:06 AM
7

You mean Hilary Rosen made a shitty comment, received plenty of backlash including a tweet from Michelle Obama, then issued an apology for it? This is one of those things feminists are allegedly doing all the time but I've never actually witnessed. I'm a feminist. I talk to other feminists online and off, I go to feminist-friendly subs, sometimes I read feminist blogs and articles. I very much want to be a stay at home mom someday and have never once felt remotely shamed for this by any feminist…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/16 06:15 AM
2

Are you digging through post histories or something? Curious why you're responding to a month-old post. If you want an actual answer, try not calling me an idiot in your first post. If you just want to insult people on the internet...well, it's your life I guess.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/16 03:25 AM
1

I see. Well I think there's a case for legal protection against using stolen sperm for fertilization, although that situation is going to be very rare and really hard to prove. But I think it's relevant to say that once the child leaves the mother's body, it can be 'used' in ways she didn't intend, so to speak. The father now has the right to be part of its life if he wants. If he can get custody, then the mother is responsible for paying child support to him. I can accept that there may be some…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/16 12:21 AM
1

I have been cheated on by two men, to my knowledge. The first man called me the next day and told me what happened. He clearly felt awful. I forgave him and can genuinely say that, while we had other problems, this one was not one of them. If I was more mature I would have put more effort into finding out why he cheated and fixing that problem but I forgave and forgot. The second man kept it a secret until I met his side girl and we figured it out. I dumped him and this cost him a lot in our mut…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/16 08:01 PM
0

This is getting into some weird hypotheticals, I'm not at all sure about any precedence but I'm not sure the tampon case would actually be illegal. I'm not even convinced it's wrong. The blood thing, maybe a little different. Do you have anything to indicate that is actually illegal? If so, wouldn't it be just as illegal for a woman to do the same thing to a man?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/16 07:50 PM
0

There is nothing scientific about what you find gross/sad, since you bring up scientific methodology. I don't remember where I said it was. But maybe you can rewrite my post for me, I wouldn't want to use the word 'gross' in a way you disapprove of when I'm talking about The Guide to Managing your Bitches. Also, experimentation is far from unscientific. TRP's methods of experimentation, and the conclusions reached from those experiments, are indeed far from scientific. If someone just wanted to …
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/16 06:41 PM
3

As a defense of the way TRP talks about women, that thread doesn't do much. Unless you already believe TRP is right, which I don't, it's just more insane and unnecessary nonsense. Adding 'statistically' still does nothing to explain why many of the beliefs on which TRP is built are so plainly false in my own experience.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/16 06:28 PM
1

I have only observed it failing in real life. I don't doubt it's been successful for others but the blanket-statement nature of TRP can't seem to accommodate the variation in experience that exists. I don't know what you're trying to say with the second paragraph. This is another thing that is demonstrably false when I look at my own experience and it seems like you are just restating it as if that's confirmation of its validity.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/16 06:15 PM
2

Yall are acting like there's no other options. "Hey man, your wife tried to fuck me. I didn't, but who knows who else got the offer." There. He's been warned and you're not a complete piece of shit, win-win.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/16 07:20 AM
6

Even if you don't share the same feelings, it shouldn't take a lot of imagination to guess why a lot of people would have problems with a subreddit that sidebars a thread called "Guide to Managing Your Bitches." These are the things that personally gross me out about TRP: It posits that women can't reach the same level of mental and emotional maturity as men. It relies on ridiculously unscientific methodology. Red Pillers are constantly telling me things about how men and women generally think a…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/16 07:04 AM
2

I don't know. To me the distinction doesn't make a difference. I wouldn't knowingly help someone do something like this, and I don't respect someone who would.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/16 03:13 AM
2

I'm not sure how you can get around considering it unethical to facilitate cruel and dishonest behavior, but okay. This is where we disagree and there's no getting around it.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/16 03:05 AM
2

It matters to the extent that not getting involved allows you to maintain your own integrity. You can't stop her from behaving unethically, but you can stop yourself from behaving unethically. If she was going to bust up her husband's car, would you go find her a bat?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/16 02:50 AM
2

If we're talking about draft eligibility, and we're not going to have a draft again, isn't it false to say men "have" to die for their country? And if so, isn't that a nonsensical criticism of feminism? I recognize there will be different cultural forces pushing men into the military more often, but that doesn't seem to be the point of this 'knock' on feminism.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/16 02:43 AM
1

Maybe. Can't say I'm an expert on the deeper motivations of "the pills" in general.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/16 10:33 PM
2

To each their own, I think TBP is pretty funny.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/16 06:05 PM
1

Most blue pillers have been hurt or let down badly by a man in their life or the lack of one, be it their father, their ex or the fact that no men want them. Maybe this is because most people have been hurt by others in their life at some point.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/16 05:57 PM
1

It might, depending on what you think is convincing. The fact that there's disagreement on that in this thread should show that's influenced by personal standards.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/16 05:48 PM
1

This may be an example hypergamy, polygamy, or just harassment. But parental investment theory doesn't say the most successful strategy for men is always polygamy. The ROI of polygamy depends on the characteristics of a species and an individual.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/16 03:32 AM
1

I think you are kinda off base by automatically assuming this is a genuine attempt to get a relationship or even sex. Think of cat-calling: sure, if they got a positive response they might roll with it. But most of them know their target probably isn't going to like it and I think that's part of the point.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/16 03:26 AM
6

If a woman displayed the exact same behavior-- sending unsolicited explicit pictures to a male model while she is in a relationship-- do you think the general TRP consensus would be that she was exhibiting hypergamy?
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/16 03:18 AM
1

If you don't feel like explaining what is actually unclear, there's nothing I can do. Have a nice night.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/16 02:59 AM
8

How is anyone else supposed to know your personal standards for what constitutes sufficient evidence for that conclusion?
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/16 02:52 AM
1

Your opinion, as I understand it, is that because you like your beta, TRP must be wrong about women Yes. It is demonstrably wrong to say "women don't want betas," particularly when you're talking to a woman who does. I also think it would be wrong to say "women don't want alphas." I don't see where I could have misled you to believe I was challenging the fact that you liked your man. I meant to point out that my argument isn't based on a 'feeling' in the sense you used it here: "I'd say it's wor…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/16 02:29 AM
1

That wouldn't tell you she was attracted to him, it would tell you if he believed she was attracted to him or not. He may not be correct in his estimation, and she would be the actual authority on the nature of her attraction. Why don't you ask that question in a place like askmen or something?
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/16 12:56 AM
1

Well then I'll go back to the first question of my first post-- other than a woman saying "nope, you got it wrong in my case" then what kind of evidence would you need?
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/16 12:01 AM
1

That I like my beta boyfriend is not an opinion, it's a fact. I think any case where the statement that women don't want beta men is false would require some explanation from TRP. In order for that explanation to be that those cases are outliers, there would have to be some actual data for comparison. In order for your explanation to be remotely convincing, you'd have to be able to evaluate a considerable number of women who like beta men and show they have the history you attribute to them. I'm…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/16 11:59 PM
2

Sure, I can agree that. Then isn't is possible for a woman's attraction to a man to fall below that but above whatever degree is necessary to want to sleep with him? And vice versa.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/16 08:34 PM
4

Some would. You might want to find a new poster boy Chad or whatever cause Pitt is twice my age and I'm not into his look right now so I'd pass.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/16 06:44 PM
3

Would all it take to change your view be a woman is a woman who says she's not into BJs at all but still experiences sexual attraction? If not then what kind of evidence would be sufficient? For a lot of people, yeah this would be true. I can't personally imagine being disgusted by the idea of giving a guy a BJ and still being attracted to him. But not everyone experiences or expresses attraction in the same way. Edit: I want to add a caveat, that I'm comfortable sleeping with a guy before I'm c…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/16 06:41 PM
1

I'm going to assume you also asked girls for help in return or that they had reasonable opportunities to offer. Do you think there was any kind of selection bias between the girls and guys who felt okay coming to you for help? I imagine they needed to have enough social interaction with you to get your contact info. I may be off base but my thought is that it's possible guys and girls were not subject to the same standards when it came to how easy it was to get that social interaction and your c…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/16 06:33 PM
1

If all a claim has to back it up is intuition, it's not worth much. What aggregate data do you have access to that leads you to believe attraction to submissive traits is correlated with a history of abuse or mental illness?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/16 06:12 PM
1

That sucks. Doesn't support the point that women don't want submissive men though, which is what I was challenging.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/16 02:57 PM
1

To me, submissiveness in a person means consistent conformation to another person's desires even at the expense of one's own desires or happiness. To Red Pillers, it seems to also include being open to compromise, being willing to admit mistakes and apologize, or thoughtfully expressing affection.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/16 02:54 PM
1

Sorry, I'm not sure how this relates to my comment, maybe you can rephrase.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/16 05:24 AM
1

I think the last point in the OP would fit the bill by TRP's standards?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/16 04:25 AM
0

betas are submissive males, and women don't want them. TRP would tell my boyfriend he fails all my shit tests, and I think he's great.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/16 04:22 AM
0

This sounds like you are excluding attractiveness as a value. Also sounds like you're putting yourself in a position to judge whether a relationship is 'worth it' for a man. That's not up to anyone but the man in question. Finally, saying women can't be suckers sounds completely ridiculous to me. I know plenty of women who have wasted their time and resources on a man they eventually concluded wasn't worth it, and I'm one of them. Investing time and effort into a relationship that doesn't get to…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/16 02:57 AM
4

So that's a no? Men are not making decisions based on valuable traits in a woman? What does it mean to you to be a sucker?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/16 09:13 PM
4

Then do you now classify this as also not treating those guys as equal? Do you notice a better response from them too?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/16 09:05 PM
2

Don't you think men are like this too?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/16 09:01 PM
3

What if a guy asked you for help with a class or something awhile ago, would your response have differed? What if a guy asked you for help now?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/16 08:58 PM
1

Of course it's a bad thing to call people, that's why people use it to describe someone who is doing bad stuff in their interactions with them. I don't think I said anything to indicate I don't think it has a negative meaning.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/01/16 08:15 PM
1

I think you've demonstrated some misunderstanding of what many feminists are talking about and how they are trying to make change. Understanding and disagreeing is one thing, but not even understand what you're criticizing is another. I doubt many actual feminists would identify or agree with your characterization of their motives or actions-- I definitely don't, it all seems like your imagination-- and if you can't even put together an accurate description of that, you might need to do some mor…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/01/16 08:05 PM
1

So what? We label people all the time based on our impressions of them-- nice, foolish, shy, sketchy, funny, nerdy, and so on. Do you also get upset about those or is creepy a special case? You don't have access to some kind of 'correct' evaluation of what impressions people give off in their interactions with others. Your perspective is as 'flawed' as anyone else's.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/01/16 07:54 PM
1

I never said most people use creepy in the wrong way. The first line of your first post is "People use the word creep incorrectly." Most people don't even call others creepy. How do you know this? Synonyms of "creepy": frightening, eerie, disturbing, sinister, weird, hair-raising, menacing, threatening, eldritch. What is this supposed to prove? That sometimes you can call someone's behavior 'weird' instead of 'creepy'? A homeless guy touching himself on the back of the bus definitely isn't eldri…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/01/16 12:37 AM
1

Your post boils down to "Women should quit complaining about sexism and just work harder." Unless you can make a case that sexism doesn't exist, this is a useless point. Also, I'd like to see your evidence that feminism encourages women to complain "instead of" doing all this other stuff. Do feminists have lower GPAs in college? Do feminists perform worse in the workplace? Do feminists have lower levels of personal satisfaction?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/16 11:49 PM
1

"I don't like them." "How come?" Use whatever language you want, just realize that it makes you sound like you're crying wolf. You don't know how I use the language, so this is an assumption. And anyway, isn't your complaint that most people use creepy in a way you don't want them to? If that's true, then wouldn't it be more likely that they'd agree rather than say I'm crying wolf? I honestly don't believe people genuinely become fearful from these things. I don't think so either. Maybe that's w…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/16 09:36 PM
1

What should they say instead? What's the objection to people using their own language to label their own impressions? If I got a generally bad vibe from someone, I feel like 'creepy' would be a suitable way to express that.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/16 06:25 PM
1

It's true that someone only has so much control over their social presence, and the person they're interacting with has the final call on the kind of impression received. This is equally true for every person; we are all the final arbiters of our opinions of people. In other words, unless you would react the exact same to a classmate you were into, you can't blame only his behavior here. I don't think it's a blame-worthy thing that a person isn't attractive to someone else, so the use of that wo…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/16 05:24 PM
2

When you say people use the word incorrectly, do you mean people call someone creepy when they're not actually creeped out by that person?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/16 07:38 AM
1

Well I hope it works well for you but I think it's pretty questionable to use this experience to conclude there's an "intrinsic entitlement that lies hidden within all the idea of fairness, equality, and egalitarianism in relationships."
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/16 06:20 AM
1

And you don't feel like that anymore?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/16 05:36 AM
4

I thought about this when I saw that Ricky Gervais movie The Invention of Lying. When imagining what it's like to be honest, it seems to be a knee-jerk reaction to equate that to saying whatever you're thinking with zero impulse control, because that's how these scenarios always seem to get presented. Being honest will only make someone look like a jerk if they were a secret jerk already.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/16 04:40 AM
1

But do you really believe that people fairly judge these things based on universal standards of conduct and not just on the overall impression? What would count as fair judgement in this context? If Person A consistently feels creeped out around Person B, then they'll probably think of Person B as a creep. What's fair or unfair about that? If you meet someone and think they're nice, or funny, or creepy, or shy, but someone else doesn't agree with you-- does it seem suitable for them to claim you…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/16 04:33 AM
1

Seems like your definition of an equal relationship is one where people invest the same amount of effort into the same kinds of expressions of affection. Does that seem right?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/16 04:29 AM
0

Has your outward behavior changed since this realization? What exactly do you think you felt entitled to?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/16 01:46 AM
1

In real life, I think of it in terms of who acts in a way that would likely help them fit in at TRP or not. Like, TRP would tell my boyfriend he's failed all my shit tests and is a total beta. So if he was one or the other, he'd be BP. I have known a couple people who used the jargon though. That makes it easy.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/01/16 05:43 PM
1

What is your definition of love? How do you experience love for a woman?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/16 10:49 PM
1

I'm talking about the subject of this entire post, at least as I understand it. Reread the OP-- what point do you think they are making, and what do you think they are asking of readers?
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/16 07:51 PM
1

https://www.reddit.com/r/femalehate/ is a sub for hating a whole gender. That's where the conversation in the OP occurred, and that's the sub I was referring to. I seriously doubt that the PUA within the TRP subreddits would have much reason to read the MGTOW-tagged posts, but I suppose that that doesn't really go along with your narrative, does it? This doesn't really affect anything about my point.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/16 08:36 AM
1

I am able to seperate things I don't like or agree with, from things I enjoy reading about. Yeah. Most people can do this. But this thread isn't called "Why do you hate women? Oh you don't hate women? Yes you do because someone else said they hate women." The premise is that many Red Pillers claim the TRP sub doesn't advocate or require the hatred of women: many posters who hate women are just new and in fact TRP will teach them how not to hate women. At the same time, some of the ECs have their…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/16 08:17 AM
1

Do you have an issue with people making comments on a public reddit conversation or is there another reason behind the focus on me 'jumping/leaping in'? I'd like to understand why someone would participate in a sub that endorses hateful contributors and content, while claiming not to share that hate and expressing resentment at being associated with that hate.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/16 07:40 AM
1

Do you think that ECs in TRP speak for all of the people that subscribe to TRP? No. If so, why do you think that an unelected person represents the entire group? No. If you don't think that is the case, why did you jump into this conversation to seemingly infer otherwise? What did I say that you consider 'inferring otherwise'?
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/16 07:27 AM
1

I'd be just as curious about a Christian who didn't hate gays but participated in a subreddit that was not only accepting of gay-bashing content, but gave special recognition to people who created it. I'm not sure why you've got such a bug up your ass about thinking I have to follow everything in a subreddit... I haven't said anything to indicate I think this. Also, I am not "society," and that issue isn't really relevant to this conversation.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/16 06:57 AM
1

I said exactly what I meant: with no other context, I have no reason to rule out either possibility.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/16 06:47 AM
1

Are they actually saying ECs speak for you? Or asking for an explanation about why you'd subscribe to a sub that makes ECs out of explicit misogynist?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/16 08:40 PM
1

I am banned also. However thats different than actual askfeminist ECs, or some equivalent, being the ones who are actively promoting misandry. Nobody in that sub can do anything about mainstream feminists but they can do something about the EC of that specific sub. As for the promotion of misandry by mods, maybe you were spot on or maybe you have a warped view of what misandry is and banning was a reasonable response, I don't know. I've seen both.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/16 08:37 PM
1

If I posted in a feminist sub that gave 'endorsed contributor' flair to select users, and someone turned up a conversation of two ECs talking about men like this, I would want them to have their EC flairs removed and if they didn't I would probably stop going to that sub. I couldn't respect a feminist sub that operated like that. At the very least, I wouldn't try to brush away criticisms if someone pointed out the disconnect between claiming that particular feminist sub doesn't hate men and havi…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/16 03:54 AM
1

Cool thanks for your contribution.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 09:39 PM
1

Shouldn't you look for advice from people who are familiar with the topic? Not just on relationships, but everything. Doesn't need to be firsthand, but some kind of education or experience. To know about someone's familiarity with a topic, you'd need to know something of their background.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/16 10:08 PM
3

If a guy wanted my help, all I'd be able to do is tell him things that would make him more attractive to me. Some of this advice would make him less attractive to other women. So I mean, I guess I might help if they asked, but it might not help them meet their goals, and generally guys don't ask me so why would I offer?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/16 09:46 PM
4

If I know someone is a Red Piller, I get the same feeling around them as I do when I know someone believes in young earth creationism or thinks Obama is secretly a Muslim terrorist. It might be possible for us to enjoy each others company on a surface level, maybe I recognize some other good things about them, but I'd be pretty averse to getting involved with them beyond the level of someone I know and occasionally run into.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/16 09:36 PM
2

That's interesting. I wonder what the gender breakdown is among people who do it regularly, or who rely on it as a primary source of income. I also wonder if/how Transgender people are included in that.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/16 09:32 PM
5

If an average woman isn't satisfied by being an average guy's last chance to get laid, does she still have it better? This is like saying the average guy has it better since he could (supposedly) find someone to settle for him and get married more easily. If this isn't what he wants, how much does it actually matter?
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 11:21 PM
1

I don't care enough about changing your mind to make a thread.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 11:16 PM
1

I have talked about this with plenty of people I know. Their answers contradict you.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 07:33 PM
1

You can restate your belief as many times as you want but it's still not a fact unless you can support it.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 07:21 PM
1

This is interesting, I think I can see an example of this state of mind in a woman I know. She was only 22 when she got married the first time but the age almost doesn't matter, what mattered is that she thought she better start having kids so she married as soon as she found a guy with the same goal. Do you think there's a wall for men, too? IMO her husband was older but in the same boat, so they rushed into marriage and parenthood without either of them being ready for it.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 07:19 PM
2

It may have been more true in the past that being single after a certain age didn't bode well for a woman's desirability. That seems to be changing as women and men delay marriage and childbirth by choice.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 03:52 PM
1

Everyone except, you know, the women who approach men and the men who have been approached by them. If you're so sure, it shouldn't be hard to pull up some actual support.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 03:37 PM
1

I could say the exact opposite and it would carry the same amount of weight. Your experience alone means nothing when trying to make statements about the overwhelming majority of anybody.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 05:39 AM
3

You can't define what points are outliers without an actual data set.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 04:28 AM
2

I can understand, there are still people I care about even though they weren't good for me in the end. And it is kinda sad to realize that being loved literally no matter what is not something you can expect from anyone else. But like you said, it is what it is. Relationships are a team effort and teams start to suck if someone stops contributing. Again my point is not to say that this is good, just that it's not as gendered as the askmen post makes it seem. I get the sense he may not have a goo…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 04:16 AM
1

You're still talking about the attractiveness of employment. Do you understand that's a different topic than whether or not women pursue men? No you won't. Here's some. Here's some more. And more. More. Some more. Even more! Still more. More. Yes, more. This wasn't even hard to find; this question gets constantly posted in askwomen. Plenty of women are willing to pursue men they're interested in.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 03:59 AM
1

You're using a study concluding unemployed men are undesirable partners to support your belief that women don't romantically pursue men? And no, i will not find 'tons of examples', that's just retarded. Yes you will.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 02:41 AM
1

An uncited study. Okay. You could still find tons of examples of this very easily if you bothered to look or ask.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 02:24 AM
1

you won't We do, and you could find tons of examples of this very easily if you bothered to look or ask. So does that disprove your point?
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 02:16 AM
2

If you no longer love your first wife, then that was conditional love and she no longer meets those conditions. This isn't to imply I think conditional love is unreasonable. My relationships are not remotely RP and are absolutely conditional. This applies to friendships, professional relationships, boyfriends, etc; basically everybody outside my family has certain sets of conditions to meet to continue the relationship, and I understand I have conditions to meet too. This is all basically to say…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 01:03 AM
2

I think a lot of relationships have a maternal/paternal aspect, but the connection is still fundamentally different than the one between a parent and child. The OP talks about unconditional love, about a man being loved for who he is and nothing more. To me, that means the love a mother has for her son. He doesn't have to do anything for her to love him, it's enough that he's her son. He could be ugly, he could be mean, he could be dumb, he could be a deadbeat-- she might not be proud of him, sh…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 12:40 AM
4

In the same way your wife can't love you as a partner and a mom, don't you think you can't love your wife as a partner and a dad? Don't women have to come to the same realization that they can't expect anyone but their parents to love them unconditionally?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/16 07:55 PM
3

I'm not so sure about the implication that men and women want/experience love in such different ways. When it comes to courtship, I understand how exhausting it must be to feel like you have to be the initiator. I don't understand or respect someone who feels entitled to receive value in the form of romantic gestures, without returning value in the same form or another form. However, when it comes to the part about wanting unconditional love from a partner, the implication seems to be either tha…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/16 07:38 PM
3

Cheating is a word that describes involvement with a new partner in a way that violates the agreement they have with their current partner. This behavior predates the term, and the term was coined/repurposed specifically to describe this behavior. By saying violating an agreement with a current partner isn't really cheating, you're saying this word doesn't describe the behavior it was employed to describe.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/16 07:05 PM
2

I don't know if it's different where you live but "dangerous and intimidating" doesn't describe the majority of bars in my city. I'm skeptical this is a purposeful goal for most establishments.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/16 06:27 PM
2

Are you saying you think people purposely seek out dangerous places to get drunk? A woman doesn't need to know a ONS well enough to trust him with her deepest secrets or her financial info or even her last name. Personally, the only trust I need in a ONS is that they won't push my boundaries.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/16 06:13 PM
1

Of TRP or PPD or what? Personally I think a lot of subs could benefit from having this concept in the sidebar...
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/16 02:16 AM
3

Because TRP is really bad at it. Ethology is a field of science and adheres to some strict principles. One that was emphasized to me in a recent primatology class was to be extremely careful attributing thoughts or feelings to an organism just because you can witness a stimulus going in and a behavior coming out, and you can fill in the gaps with some cognitive process that makes sense to you. This is a trap to be wary of even with animals who can't tell us what they think. TRP is riddled with t…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 01:29 AM
2

I ask my nieces to use some of their money to buy presents for family members at Christmas and birthdays. I don't think setting some guidelines for how a 6 year old spends money is out of line. Also, at this age kids often love undivided attention from a parent, so this could be pretty important to him. I don't think this is worth the hyperbole elsewhere in the thread (see comment on "pulsating mound of horror that is single motherhood in the West") but the emphasis on chivalry and 'how to treat…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/16 11:24 PM
3

Considering this is kind of how I found TRP in the first place and that relationship was one of the worst things that ever happened to me, it would be a huge problem. If I couldn't identify any particular problem behaviors, maybe there wouldn't be an immediate breakup. At the very least I would want to talk about why you were interested in TRP, what parts seemed reasonable to you and what didn't. Even if we agreed that most TRP-specific beliefs are garbage, I would probably have a lot of trouble…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/12/15 05:26 AM
1

Good thing there are more types of people beyond those two very specific and opposing extremes.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/12/15 05:14 AM
3

What would you need as evidence to change your view? There's no shortage of women who will tell you that's a bunch of bullshit-- would that be enough? All the examples you used to build your case are fictional. Why is taste in books and movies alone enough to show what someone wants their life to actually be like?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/15 01:52 AM
3

Opera is just a medium for telling stories. Like you said, many of them may have been composed in times and places with certain cultural influences. But why would that mean a Red Pill worldview, or any worldview, is inherent to the art form? I don't know much about opera so maybe someone with more experience could give more examples. I've seen The Marriage of Figaro: How does Suzanne's loyalty to Figaro over the Count mesh with TRP's ideas about hypergamy? It ends with the Count realizing it was…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/15 04:24 PM
2

Yeah especially when you put it like that it makes sense, sounds like how I've generally felt too.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/15 03:54 PM
2

I don't think controllability matters but I'll leave it alone if it wasn't a serious comment :)
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/15 03:50 PM
3

I'm not trying to call into question the legitimacy of your post, but I am curious. If your fiance had all the same traits but he was 5'7", do you imagine you wouldn't have been attracted to him? With the short guy, did you find yourself thinking he was cool but you wished he was taller?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/15 07:03 AM
2

Hope you say this to every Red Piller who says he's not attracted to women with high partner counts.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/15 07:00 AM
1

I'm 5'11". Past male partners range from 5'10" to 6'4" and my current boyfriend is 6'10". I look for someone not noticeably shorter than me. My dating pool would be too small if I was stricter than that.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/15 04:23 AM
1

What defines who gives more and why do you say it's usually the woman?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/15 04:20 AM
1

I don't waste my time talking to people who refuse to answer questions about their views. It's sketchy. Have a nice night.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/12/15 12:46 AM
2

Seeing porn stars who identify as feminists engage in light BDSM made you think feminism is about "giving men consent to control a woman's body"? What's the thought process here? Being able to give and revoke consent is having agency.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/12/15 12:40 AM
1

Will you answer the questions I asked? I don't care what your personal preferences are. I'm criticizing your use of personal preferences as justification for claiming someone who doesn't meet your standards is selfish, irresponsible, or deserving condemnation.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/12/15 12:32 AM
1

Hi. …this is a bit of an odd post if you're just trying to prove that other animals don't follow BL. It should be clear this was my point, because Briffault’s Law explicitly applies to animals and the point of my post was to show Briffault’s Law to be false. I have my own ideas about what that implies for TRP but that’s beyond the scope of this post. If you don’t like the topic of this post, I don’t know what to tell you—your complaint has been noted, I guess? You said that BL is false because e…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/12/15 12:18 AM
1

If by unchecked, you mean by violence, I don't think that's true. I also don't think this is an example of a power women have that men lack, since it's just an idea about the division of women's attention unequally among men. Imagine violence is still acceptable in the SMP. Once again, the biggest and most aggressive men have an advantage. Why would they refrain from using that advantage to outcompete other men like we see in other species where violence is still a strategy? After all, sexual di…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/12/15 10:05 AM
2

Who gives women that perceived power? Why is having casual sex more wrong just because you think easier to get? Now you've made a comparison in which a woman sleeping with more partners than you personally approve of is akin to selfishness and waste. What ethical responsibility do women, but not men, have that should stop them from sleeping with whoever they want?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/12/15 09:45 AM
4

Teachers, cops, and accountants all agree to predetermined codes of conduct upon choosing that job. Like I said, women enter into no such agreement with anybody just by being women. If having a gender was a privilege, and someone had the authority to set codes of conduct for each gender, and you got to choose which gender you wanted (or forsake altogether) before you picked...then maybe your comparisons would be applicable.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/12/15 05:42 AM
2

My personal experiences offer little support for lots of TRP's ideas or its overall success, so yeah I think anyone who thinks it's universally successful or true has to be ignoring all the instances where it's not. I've often seen an exchange where a Red Piller says "People are like x." Someone, or multiple people, respond with "I'm not like x." The Red Piller responds "You're an outlier, you don't count." It makes me wonder how many people would have to contradict before the Red Piller wonders…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/12/15 11:52 PM
1

This same post could be used to argue for increased availability of screenings, and general sex ed, with far more relevance I think. Chlamydia and gonorrhea aren't magically generated by female promiscuity. The CDC says the best way to prevent STDs is to be celibate or be in a monogamous LTR, so arguing that women have a medical reason not to have many partners provides an equally legit argument that men shouldn't have many partners either. Also, while I would never wish infertility on an unwill…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/12/15 11:31 PM
4

Men and women don't have to be physiologically identical to deserve the same ethical considerations. Is something to be encouraged or discouraged solely on the effort you perceive it to require? By being born female, women don't agree to a contract in which they will show a nebulous, subjective level of sexual restraint or be shamed.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/12/15 11:09 PM
1

What powers do women have in choosing partners that men don't have? You said a couple times you don't know what would make things fair but you say things about people not having a fair shake. What constitutes a fair shake?
/r/PurplePillDebate25/12/15 07:16 AM
1

That's interesting because that's not at all what you said in the post before. Where did I agree to take the responsibility to prove it wrong for humans? Saying the law is mostly falsified by rape is not an accurate representation of my post. Lack of paternal care is a much more common example of males determining family conditions at the cost of a female's fitness. If a female could actually choose, why would she choose to share paternal resources with other infants at the expense of her own? P…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/12/15 04:42 AM
1

The law itself says "the animal family" but you think it's not correct to say it refers to nonhuman animals?
/r/PurplePillDebate25/12/15 01:07 AM
1

If the dynamic was previously unfair because men were allowed to use violence, wouldn't the removal of that power make it more fair? Now nobody's allowed to use violence. What does 'fair' mean to you in this context? If people are allowed to choose who they want to associate with, it's never going to be 'fair' in that everyone gets equal results, but nobody's prevented from trying. It's like any competition: if someone's free to compete but they're not good at the game, it's not unfair if they d…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/15 03:53 PM
1

Toxic male gender roles like self sacrifice cause men to act illogical and slave themselves away. I agree men are under unfair pressure to lead and provide because of gender roles. I would like to see this pressure be removed. However, avoiding shame/ridicule by conforming to gender roles is still a benefit. It's not a healthy one, or one I think humans should be subject to, but it's part of the equation. It doesn't show that animals will do something absent of a benefit, it just shows that in t…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/15 05:46 AM
1

I'm just saying that the removal of this power has left an unfairly balanced dynamic. I took that to mean it was fair when men could use violence, and once they couldn't then it was no longer fair. If not, then why has the removal of that power left an unfair dynamic? What's not fair about the conditions today and what would fair conditions look like?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/15 05:41 AM
1

It was fair before? How so?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/12/15 05:48 PM
1

Male chimps and gorillas use this kind of power in their SMP because their goal is to produce as many offspring as possible, regardless of the costs it exacts on the female. They don't care if she could find a male with better genes, they don't care if she doesn't want to mate with them, they don't even care if she gets injured as long as it doesn't affect her ability to incubate and raise their infant. Given their degree of sexual dimorphism and other physiologcal factors, the use of power is a…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/15 11:06 PM
1

I've approached men before. I don't know about "no problem" -- the more attractive and obviously high-status a man is, the more likely I perceive it to be that I'll get rejected. I can tell you though none of the guys I approached were rich. You should take a look at some of these threads: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskWomen/comments/vben7/why_dont_you_approach/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskWomen/comments/3r3vrf/why_do_you_think_it_is_that_i_see_so_many_guys/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskWomen/comme…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/15 06:21 PM
1

I don't think being restricted from using violence means men aren't still able to do cost vs benefit calculations and exercise choice when it comes to male-female associations of any kind. If a woman comes up to talk to you, aren't you free to leave the conversation? If a woman wants to sleep with you, aren't you free to decline? If you have a woman over, aren't you free to ask her to leave the next day? If you're dating a woman, aren't you free to end the relationship? These are all examples of…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/15 06:04 PM
4

What are the conditions of a convenient and easy approach, when someone is approaching a more attractive stranger in a bar? Because that sounds terrifying no matter who you are. Pretty sure the chance of success needs to outweigh the potential cost of rejection for anyone approaching anyone anywhere. The chances and costs are going to be different for everyone, depending on their success rate and how much rejection bothers them.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/15 07:38 AM
1

I don't know about the second point about women liking to appear to have reduced agency. But yeah, in general it might not make sense for someone to put themselves out there and risk rejection if they're okay with their situation without taking that risk.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/15 07:24 AM
3

So women will initiate when it's not convenient for them. Approaching someone well above your SMV sounds like a good way to risk rejection.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/15 07:20 AM
1

yes they do. No they don't. There, we both provided the same amount of evidence. no he wont, Men look for life partners and a lifetime supply of sex and companionship. women usually see sex as a chore. or a means to have babies / keep a guy around, Women will never connect emotionally with a man on the same level they want to connect with their children on. You understand Briffault's Law was meant to apply to the animal world, not just people, right? And that you're just regurgitating an unfound…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/15 05:42 AM
2

And when women do initiate, it's because ______? Selective service is one of the recurring topics listed in the /r/askfeminists sidebar.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/15 05:40 AM
1

You're saying that when it comes to humans, men are discouraged from using rape, assault, or threat of violence as sexual strategies. Because this is the case, it's still useful to say that females, not males, determine the conditions of the family and the characteristics of male-female associations. Do I understand right?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/15 05:34 AM
1

Your TLDR summary basically contradict's your title when applied to Briffaults law Saying Briffault's Law is false contradicts with saying Briffault's Law contradicts basic principles of survival? resource allocation - as soon as the female's resource allocating needs are met she can and will discard the male at her first convenience. this is proven time and time again with divorce rape. If she thinks she is getting a raw deal from him she will take what she can from him and move on I'm not sure…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/15 05:26 AM
0

Scrutiny is great. This isn't actually scrutiny.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/15 03:40 AM
0

Aren't you just saying "if yer missus won't shag you, it's your fault for not being attractive" then? This is silly and doesn't merit a real response. it seems to me Then back it up. Also, remember that if a male ends his association with a female after mating and she could benefit from paternal care to the infant (and this is very common) then that's an instance of the conditions being determined in accordance with the male's benefit, not hers.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/15 03:12 AM
1

I think you're over-literal in your interpretation. I'm not sure what a figurative interpretation of Briffault's Law would look like. Your bee example is one in which the male has some role in determining whether or not he gets to associate with a female. Remember, Briffault's Law says "the female, not the male..." I'd summarize your point as "rape is an exceptional mating strategy that Briffault didn't include in the statement of his law" Then I haven't been clear. Using force or threat of forc…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/15 01:18 AM
5

Thanks, I appreciate that :) In other PPD discussions, my attempts to construct arguments with the same thoroughness have often been answered with childishness...so I can understand why some BP posters might choose not to put in the effort even if they could. But I think the responses here are pretty good so far.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 08:20 PM
4

Yeah, I'll give a hypothetical example of mating and parenting in a species in which Briffault's Law is true. In this species, males exercise no mate choice and instead let females select them. Once a female has successfully selected her chosen male, he mates with her and only her. Through the course of her pregnancy, he invests his energy and health in bringing her food and defending her from predators as well as the aggression of other females in hierarchy-related disputes. If necessary, he wo…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 08:18 PM
3

That seems really interesting, thanks for the recommendation. Is it one you've read? In chimpanzees, females have some ability to exercise choice, but it's limited. Males don't benefit from respecting a female's choice, and if can convince her to submit through a certain level of violence, they don't have much of a reason not to. For females, the choice may not be "Mate with Male A or mate with Male B" but instead "Mate with Male A or get punched until you mate with Male A anyway." Bonobos on th…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 07:05 PM
1

Based on the frequency with which females have to be physically stopped from mating with other males, or intimidated/attacked in order to induce submission to mating, yes, it's pretty safe to say there's not 100% overlap between who is alpha and who is a female's preference. Sometimes, a receptive female and a non-dominant male will disappear from the rest of the group for the course of her fertility in what is called a consortship. These can also be apparently the female's choice or because of …
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 06:49 PM
2

Yes, alphas get replaced. In chimps, this isn't determined by females in any significant way, but by the ability to physically dominate all other males. Even when a male is alpha, if he left a receptive female unguarded, she would certainly mate with many other partners. Any sexual exclusivity is because of intimidation or violence, not because of female preference. I have seen/known of truly nasty, fear-inducing males having a tenure as alpha, including one who killed infants within his own com…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 06:39 PM
1

If you're talking about humans, yeah you can't, and even if you could, you shouldn't. But we're not talking about only humans. Briffault's Law is talking about animals. In plenty of primates, a male can dominate other males and then punish females if they refuse to mate with him.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 06:10 PM
3

The point of Briffault's Law is something different from what it actually states? My examples should make it clear that mating occurs against female preference way more than .01% of the time, even in great apes. Aggression and punishment for lack of compliance are not uncommon strategies for males to get mating opportunities. You have a lot of work to do if you want to show that female animals are generally free to choose males who make them "feel safe," because even if she factors that into her…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 06:04 PM
9

Can you give an example of what you perceive to be an employer-employee relationship dynamic in animals? Because if you're referring to male-female dynamics, I can think of many species in which the female would benefit from keeping the male on as a caretaker of their offspring. Unless he's unlikely to find mating opportunities elsewhere, he has no reason to do so and usually doesn't. This is why paternal care is relatively rare in the animal world. I actually don't understand what you're trying…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 05:59 PM
3

Does this mean you think male preferences are resistant towards shifts in cultural values?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 05:40 PM
1

I don't have a problem with using animal behavior research techniques to observe or explain human behavior as long as the research is held to the same standard it is in the animal behavior field. I'm not sure how your thought about feminist theory applies to Briffault's Law? Both sexes are selected for the tendency to look after their own reproductive success even if they are contradictory. I made the post here, it's long but there is a summary.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 05:35 PM
3

When I people watch, I pretty much exclusively see couples who are roughly equal in attractiveness. The same trend is evident in the many couples I personally know, too. We must live in places where people work very differently. Also, is being taller than a man really a component of high SMV for women?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 04:48 PM
3

If your experience has been that your partners are smart, empowered, and confident, fine. Maybe you have a really different idea of what constitutes that, or maybe if I met them I'd actually agree. In my experience, people who employ certain TRP strategies come off as rude and tedious at best and abusive psychos at worst. I don't talk to them anymore, and I don't really see them being successful with other people either. My experience has been that confident people in general don't respond posit…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 09:13 AM
2

If you don't have any idea either, why do you think it's "not that hard to do"?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 08:52 AM
1

Sorry, it is an ideology. There's already a pretty extensive thread on this particular objection.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 01:54 AM
1

Did you reply to the wrong comment? Because that makes no sense as a response to my post. In fact, it doesn't make sense as a response to any post, since you seem to be saying smarter people are more likely to put up with an obnoxious jerks who believe them to be inherently inferior.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 01:53 AM
1

First thing is the inclusion of Briffault's law in the sidebar, a statement that's glaringly false to anyone who studies animal behavior. I plan to do another PPD post about it in a couple days.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/15 05:01 AM
1

To have a strategy, you need a goal and a plan to get to that goal. If you 'removed' TRP ideology, TRP would contain no values and no beliefs. With no values, how could TRP define sexual success as a valuable goal? With no beliefs, how could TRP generate plans of action based on beliefs about how the world works? Ideologies supply beliefs and values. Beliefs and values generate strategies. With no ideology, how could TRP have strategy?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/15 09:12 AM
1

I should have specified. I'd like to know what, if anything, would have to change about you, your experience, relevant research results etc, in order for you to accept or reject TRP as it currently is. The way the ideology itself would have to change is an interesting topic but not quite in line with this.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/15 04:44 AM
1

Attention: There are numerous TRP strategies that rely on the assumption that the target is a woman who is strongly motivated by getting the right kind of attention from men, especially high SMV men. They recommend the calculated dispensing of that attention. Good behavior gets the right kind of attention, and bad behavior gets nothing, or the wrong kind of attention, like the nuclear option. If a woman felt neutral towards or repulsed by the attention of a Red Piller, how would you envision tha…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/15 09:29 PM
1

Yeah, everything that fits the definition in the dictionary. That's how words work.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/15 08:28 PM
1

It's possible I'm not getting the distinction. My point was that listing the different type of people who follow TRP is not a way to show it's not an ideology, because in theory they all could also subscribe to the ideology of Nazism. My point isn't to imply there's any correlation between buying into TRP and buying into Nazism. But anyway: since antisemitism is a belief adopted by that ideology, then any one of those people could use that belief to inform the decisions they make. Specifically, …
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/15 08:28 PM
1

Because I didn't mention it, that means I forgot it? Yes, that's a belief, one I think is justified and that I share. If fitness culture is a collection of beliefs, values, and standards then sure, it's an ideology.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/15 08:21 PM
1

First paragraph doesnt really change anything about what I said, and I don't see anything useful about discussing this anymore. You think I answered a statement not addressed to me as if it was. Cool. Anyway. From now on I will make sure to point out which questions I want you to answer. I actually want to know if you think I have a problem with someone having answered my question, because otherwise I'm not sure what you believe your statement's relevance is right now.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/15 06:18 PM
1

Let's sum up the last few posts: Pem: You need to suggest something else if you want people to leave TRP. Me: No I don't because I don't care if people leave TRP. Pem: Yes you do if you want people to believe you. Me: I don't care about that, so no I don't. Pem: Then people won't believe you. Me: I don't care. You: I don't know why you think Pem is talking to you personally. If Pem says they meant a general "you" rather than me personally, fine, who am I to argue? But let's not act like it's off…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/15 12:13 AM
3

Your argument seems to be this: Feminists and female TBP subscribers supposedly have a larger average partner count than RPW women, so a Red Piller is more likely to be in the first group than the second as a matter of probability. Is that right? Your original post doesn't make any mention of if/why feminists would be more attracted to Red Piller qualities than an RPW, so I don't want to assume that's part of your argument. If that isn't part of your argument, then doesn't this kind of depend on…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/15 09:25 PM
1

User replies that it would take an alternative strategy that is more effective to change his mind. Do you think this is what I have a problem with?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/15 09:11 PM
1

4 If I got it wrong, what would that show? If I got it right, what would that show?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/15 06:58 PM
3

They're not numbers either but you used an equation to illustrate your point. Yes, it's possible some people might not want it to work. That's something you'd have to evaluate on a case-by-case basis, while being careful not to discount an argument just because you don't like the motivations of the person who made it. This is also not at odds with my point. Why do you think some people might not want TRP to work?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/15 04:50 PM
1

I don't know where you got the idea my goal in this thread is to make people believe the same things I believe about TRP. Was I not clear when I explained, twice, that I don't care about trying to make people drop TRP because it would be a giant waste of time?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/15 02:51 PM
1

If you think I'm not calm, you are projecting. You do "have to do shit" if you want people to agree with you. Oh okay. So, l like I already said: I don't have to do shit.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/15 02:42 PM
1

That seems pretty reasonable. Thanks for the answer.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/15 02:34 PM
1

I don't have to do shit, since I already said I don't care about converting people from TRP. If I see a bad argument, I might address it, but that's because I like practicing analyzing arguments and constructing my own, not because I live in a fantasy world where me getting into arguments on reddit routinely results in me turning on a lightbulb in someone's head and convincing them to completely change their views. This thread isn't called "Find out what would change RPers minds then try to conv…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/15 02:31 PM
7

Yeah no, the men in my life do not go through periodic tiny psychotic breaks where they cannot differentiate reality from fantasy. Maybe you hang out with the wrong guys but I'm pretty sure the thing you're describing is called "hope" and the ability to experience hope during infatuation is not gendered. You think women don't develop crushes on unattainable people and spend too much time thinking about their interactions, looking for signs of interest and daydreaming about what they'll name the …
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/15 02:08 PM
1

I asked a similar thing of the same user and also got ignored. In my experience, good friendships with this dynamic are still possible, but it depends on two things: One: The person who is the object of affection is willing and able to consistently discourage certain behaviors. These are certain behaviors that might be acceptable from other friends who aren't into them, but just cause trouble if allowed from a friend who does like them. I think it's possible to discourage these behaviors while s…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/15 01:55 PM
1

Okay I understand better now, thanks for the answer.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/15 01:09 PM
3

You more or less repeated yourself without addressing the content of my post. I could respond "TRP isn't just a strategy, it's an ideology," and if I left it at that then we'd have made about the same contribution. Remember TRP isn't just a collection of observations, it undeniably also makes conclusions based on those observations and has its own value system. Some of these things are what makes TRP unique from some other ideologies or beliefs that might advocate some of the same strategies. Fo…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/15 01:04 PM
2

I don't care if you are TRP and I have no delusions about convincing anyone not to follow TRP. I'm not concerned with efficacy; in my own life, any use of TRP-specific tactics has been ineffective at best and damaging or laughable at worst. But if someone on the Internet tells me it gets them what they want, fine. I might privately have doubts about the truth of their claims, but I probably won't waste time arguing about it. I believe it does work at least some of the time and I believe lots of …
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/15 12:19 PM
4

TRP can be used by a dark triad abuser, an old school husband, or a player. Yeah, so can Nazism. I'm not sure how telling me what kind of people can follow TRP is supposed to prove that it's not an ideology. The comparison applicable to your examples is that TRP is an ideology and stuff like lifting weights or dread game are strategies that can be used to meet standards that are highly valued within that ideology. A strategy is a plan of action, which TRP can certainly help someone build, but TR…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/15 11:52 AM
3

What gave you the idea I want to make a point about TRP's efficacy in other people's lives?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/15 06:13 AM
6

That doesn't describe my 'strategy' and I don't feel that's at odds with my participation in the BP subreddit. Every subreddit is going to have some characteristics shared by big chunks of its userbase, especially non-defaults but not necessarily because it's a core belief of the subreddit. For instance, if r/Christianity skews towards conservatism, it's not because that's part of the subs ideology, and conservatism isn't a requirement to fully participate. I'd guess BP subscribers tend to more …
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/15 05:28 AM
3

Saying BP hasn't convincingly argued RP is bad is one thing. Saying BP can't argue RP is bad without telling you which single ideology to follow instead is a little different, and not true. I think Anarchkitty is on the second topic.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/15 05:13 AM
2

Can you explain what you mean by "Regardless of how people are and can be, I know how I would prefer things to be."? I mean, I also know how I'd prefer things to be but that itself doesn't define the conclusions I reach about human behavior; my preferences are often at odds with the way people behave.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/15 02:23 AM
1

Just clarifying, if 3% of female peers at your college preferred stable relationships with laid-back STEM majors over the CC, that would be enough for you to stop believing TRP?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/15 01:35 AM
3

So currently you think TRP is effective/applicable for 92% of women, and if it was effective/applicable for <50% of women you would stop believing it?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/15 01:33 AM
3

A 'counter hypothesis' is not necessary or sufficient to show the flaws in an existing hypothesis. If someone tells me mixing red and blue paint makes green, I don't have to tell them how to make green paint, I just have to show that mixing red and blue paint makes purple to demonstrate their statement wasn't correct. I agree that if BP was offering an alternate ideology and it was more effective than RP, they would probably be more successful in getting people to drop RP and pick up the alterna…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/15 01:21 AM
2

An ideology is a system of beliefs, standards and ideas. TRP is a system of beliefs about why men and women behave the way they do, standards of behavior for men and women, and ideas on how to navigate dating, relationships, and life in general. I don't see how TRP doesn't fit the bill or what the problem is with labeling it an ideology.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/15 12:51 AM
7

Why is it a problem not to have a counterstrategy? Either a criticism stands on its own merit or it doesn't, right? I'm not sure what your comparison is actually supposed to illustrate.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/15 09:14 PM
5

There are women who have those preferences but I assume you think they're in the extreme minority. Roughly what percent of women would have to have those preferences to change your mind?
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/15 09:12 PM
2

No. The reason I hate TRP is because it's built on poisonous, antagonistic beliefs about the nature of men and women. Those beliefs are false as consistently demonstrated by my own experience and the experiences of people I know. I don't think TRP affords full humanity to anybody, men or women. It also depends on shitty ethology. It's worthless as a way of explaining behavior, and in any remotely academic setting you can't get away with making conclusions about behavior the way TRP does.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/15 08:13 PM
4

Treating a guy like a eunuch, and expecting/demanding him to act like a eunuch, because you don't find him attractive is absolutely dehumanizing them. Can you describe an interaction that fits this description? How would that same interaction go differently if the woman did not treat the man like a eunuch, while still not being attracted to him? I associate with plenty of men and women I don't want to have sex with. I expect them not to try to have sex with me or talk about having sex with me. I…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/15 07:11 PM
9

Feminists, is this a fair representation of your reasoning? Yeah, I think this is pretty solid. I'm not 100% on the part about assuming coherence based on his ability to use complete sentences, but only because I think drunkenness is pretty idiosyncratic. I don't know if we're supposed to be imagining this happening with our current partners or what; my boyfriend can still put together sentences in a blackout.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/15 06:54 PM
2

What would even begin to give you the idea that women generally wander around passively thinking the world is a safe place? This is baffling. I won't try to guess what men feel like they're encouraged to learn as far as safety. But I can tell you that there are significant portions of my day, particularly when I'm waiting at the bus stop or riding the bus, where I'm constantly aware of the factors that influence my safety. How dark is it, how many people are around, are any of them drunk or stru…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/12/15 04:50 AM
1

In your opinion, what's responsible for the 'declining sensitivity' and how are you measuring that decline? Do you see it in other demographics too?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/11/15 12:04 AM
3

If she was nice, but had no real interests or hobbies, would that be okay with you? Or you don't care what her interests are as long as she has some?
/r/PurplePillDebate13/11/15 09:37 PM
1

The first part of your post is a run-down of gendered differences in career commitment over an extremely recent period. I didn't ask about that. I asked how your position (that women were never selected for genes that caused them to seek power) can explain the fact that women seek more power as time goes on. Telling me why you think men are more likely to make capable politicians doesn't explain that. Where did you get the idea that early human females didn't attain higher rank through intrasexu…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/11/15 12:04 AM
2

How do you explain women who get into FWB arrangements with men they have no interest in being in a relationship with? Attractive women might not need to have sex to get male attention, but that doesn't mean they don't still want it.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/15 10:16 PM
3

If my pool of potential partners included absolutely everyone, yes I'm sure I could arrange a hookup whenever I wanted. A lot of my peers could probably do the same. But this doesn't guarantee a good or even an okay experience. I can't think of a better way to put it: saying a woman can have sex whenever she wants because someone out there will fuck her is like saying you can have food whenever you want because you could just eat out of the garbage. Maybe true, technically, but would you want to…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/15 10:51 PM
1

How does that explanation mesh with the current situation, in which a huge number of women are pushing for more power and increasingly moving into leadership roles? You have more work to do if you want to convincingly show that females wouldn't be selected for some of those traits too. Among chimps and other social primates, females have a separate hierarchy and the ones at the top have better access to resources and social support. For prehuman females, high rank could easily make the differenc…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/15 04:19 PM
6

In social mammals, it's a rule with few exceptions that males outrank females. Looking at chimps gives us an idea about how this structure is maintained, at least in closely-related primates: through physical violence. A dimorphic species, where the male is larger than the female, means males are consistently going to win in male-female conflicts. All great apes are dimorphic to some degree. Bonobos are the only exception to this rule within the great ape family. The simplest way to draw a phylo…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/15 06:10 AM
-2

What do you think would happen if I made it public that I absolutely do not hire feminists? Some people would support your decision, some would criticize it. The ratio of supporters to critics, and the vehemency of their reaction, might determine the success of your business, or whether or you employer continues to employ you. Just like any other business decision. What is this hypothetical supposed to illustrate? What is the difference between a business owner not hiring someone for their opini…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/15 04:54 AM
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