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dragoninahat Archive

View 0 posts and 160 comments by dragoninahat on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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2

I also think the age gap discourse has grown wildly and is very different from where it was even 10-20 years ago, and that includes both men and women. Men dating younger women might have been mocked or given side eye but it's only been recently people are talking about it as predatory (so long as it's legal). I also do see quite a lot of talk about 'women do it too' and so on, often the comparisons aren't really equal though and make it clear people are reaching...so I think it depends on where…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/23 12:52 AM
-2

You know society is half men, right? You can't say "men don't need to talk about it they need society to stop treating it as acceptable" and have it make sense. The reason why it's become less acceptable to harass women is because many many women spoke up about it, and did a lot of work around it. No they shouldn't have 'had' to but just saying 'hmph, we shouldn't have to people just need to stop treating it as acceptable' isn't going to work too well for either gender.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/23 12:50 AM
1

Yeah - this is very interesting, and I wonder if it is cultural based. I definitely think both men and women have an equally hard time apologizing, but it probably manifests differently due to societal expectations.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/06/23 05:59 AM
1

So, the problem here is that you only see this from a man's perspective. As a woman, I see the exact opposite and I don't think it's that either of us are being disingenuous. It's that people tend to notice the times they are disadavantaged and not the times they're advantaged.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/06/23 08:56 PM
1

What are you basing any of this on?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/06/23 02:36 PM
4

where are you even getting this from? Men dodge accountability *all the time*. All people are prone to it. Usually this sub is all about quoting studies to prove things like women preferring taller/richer/whatever, but nobody is giving any actual evidence here.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/06/23 04:20 AM
2

As for 2 - it's going to depend on who you date. Of course the gender you date is the one you'll have had experience with being manipulative. You seem to be implying that most men say "I was horny and I fucked up" essentially owning it's his own fault. I haven't seen or experienced this happening at all so I am curious what your evidence is for it. Both men and women equally blame their partner - maybe using different language, but they both do it.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/06/23 04:17 AM
3

So many posts seem to be like this - they make a claim that is hard to refute because it's so non specific.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/23 04:33 AM
1

I think that's what's being asked about though, chubby women
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/23 04:22 AM
4

Are you saying you don't think people could also find tweets insulting fat women or unattractive women? I mean, that twitter hasn't been used in eight years and some of the tweets are from guys, so I don't think it proves a whole lot other than that people say stupid shit about everyone...you aren't really providing any evidence here that women have 'most other platforms' really.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/23 04:20 AM
6

This sub proves loads of men compete in the victim Olympics. Also complaining about being used for sex is far different from complaining about attracting ugly guys.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/23 01:39 AM
11

right? I feel like I'm in a very different and bizarre world every time I come on here, and compare what I see around me every day.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/23 01:38 AM
8

Yeah exactly.... this is the problem - any time a woman says something like this, everyone who believes all women secretly want this pounce all over it and blow it up. It proves/fits a certain narrative and people get to feel super smug.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/23 06:07 AM
1

Most of the time men don't want 50/50 custody, so no. And just because legally the woman can choose an abortion does NOT mean the husband doesn't have a say. You're acting like because there are toxic situations where this could happen it applies to the majority of human relationships. It doesn't. Most couples do in fact choose to have a child together, not have the woman say "hahaha, I am having a child whether you want it or not!"
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 11:52 PM
1

I mean yeah? There's a lot of reasons people are single. What consequences exactly do you think 'women' aren't facing? And who are we talking about? If a woman gets divorced and has a kid what is it you think she should be doing that she isn't? There's a huge difference between someone who was in a marriage that broke up (which is usually due to the actions of BOTH people regardless of who files) and someone who relationship hops and gets pregnant from 5 different people, I don't know why we'd l…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 10:26 PM
–

Yeah, but that doesn't make bad evidence good. That just means there isn't any concrete evidence one way or the other.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 07:31 PM
–

Because it is meaningless. All it's evidence of is that 70-80% of women file for divorce. It is not good evidence for the conclusion than most men on this subreddit seem to be coming to, which is that filing the paperwork means the women initiated the divorce.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 07:16 PM
–

But if the only evidence you have isn't actually good evidence, the solution isn't to use it anyway. Especially not repeating it over and over like it is irrefutable.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 06:41 PM
3

Well the last paragraph said it was because he assumes women already do most of that!
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 06:34 PM
3

IMO it depends. Cold approach or online dating, usually the guy. The kind of dates/relationships that happen more organically like through a friend circle tends to be more even. And there's usually a lot more back and forth, ie one does the initial ask, the other initiates the first kiss, or whatever.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 06:34 PM
7

fucking hell, thank you. That is a stat I keep seeing repeated over and over as though the one who files is always the cause of the end of the marriage. There's absolutely no way to tell but it fits a certain paradigm so gets repeated over and over like it actually is meaningful. It's also another example of real life not looking much like people on here say it does - when I look around at the people I know, breakup initiation is about 50/50 by gender.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 06:30 PM
–

Yeah, but instead of thinking "this statistic doesn't really tell us much about the way relationships work" people take it as "this is the only evidence we have so it's irrefutable!"
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 06:29 PM
5

This is honestly one of the problems that comes up with debating in here. Yes, of course you can find advice saying pretty much anything, women/men saying wildly different things that they/we want. But then everyone will just remember the stuff they personally want to talk about it and act like it's the only stuff out there. So you end up having people arguing about non-specific assumptions. I keep saying "we're told" or "women say" - some of these things are pretty common, others I have literal…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 06:27 PM
1

Yes, that's why I said statistics and observation - I agree statistics underreport for both men and women being raped. That's why I asked how you knew as well, as i don't think there really is another way to know. I agree that the minority is important, I just don't think it is super relevant in this discussion - I say the same thing about people saying 'what about single mothers who were raped' yes of course it happens but it isn't really what the topic is about
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 04:37 PM
1

Statistics and my own observation. How do you?
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 04:29 PM
5

It's funny how people assume that anyone with a problem with age gaps like this 'must' be a jealous older woman, lol. I have seen the backlash against age gaps growing among younger people if anything.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 04:29 PM
1

I am pretty aware, yes. It is still an extreme minority of children who are born as a product of rape.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 04:23 PM
1

This is about as reasonable as people saying 'what about single mothers who got pregnant by rape' though, it is an extreme minority of actual unwanted pregnancies.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 04:16 PM
2

but isn't the initiating divorce just paperwork? Like if a guy were to cheat or leave but the woman were to physically file the paperwork she'd still be counted in that 80% but I wouldn't really say she initiated the end of the marriage. Or if both people decide together and she files. I'd say it's probably more that women tend to be the the ones doing the admin work.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 04:14 PM
8

Good point. I always laugh when someone on reddit says "if a man did that he'd be arrested!" when it's like, a woman made an inappropriate comment to a coworker or slapped a guy's ass in a bar. Like, men still get away with sexual harassment and assault every day. The jails are not filling up with poor men who just wanted to say hi.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 04:07 PM
3

Putting the occasional large model in Sports Illustrated really doesn't seem like that to me, though. Unless it's the majority, if it's just an occasional one - why not? Some guys *do* like big women. I agree most don't though. I don't think that the mind is a blank slate, I think attraction is super complicated. But what I'm really not seeing is this push that men 'must' be attracted to big women. Even by putting the occasional plus size model in a mainstream magazine, that isn't really demandi…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 04:05 PM
6

Yeah I think it's notable that I've never gotten anyone to give me even one example of this supposed ubiquitous trend of women claiming men MUST be attracted to fat women or they're terrible. I've rolled my eyes at some of the fat acceptance stuff I've seen (I'm formerly-large myself) but I genuinely have not seen this "and men have to love me!" I really think most just want to be able to buy clothes that fit and not get harassed or insulted.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 06:47 AM
1

Yeah, I have been a part of subcultures/groups that have been mixed gender, so I think that plays into it a lot. Also, none of us are high earners - some of the stuff I see posted here, like expectations of men dropping hundreds of dollars on a date, is absolutely insane to me. I do think people probably underestimate how different things are not just regionally but also just like..based on community/subculture. I do know people (men and women) with a lot of expectations in a partner, in my expe…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 06:44 AM
35

Yeah tbh the number of guys here who seem to base their views on women on youtube videos or one or two examples makes me wonder if they actually ever talk to women off the internet.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 04:05 AM
26

Yeah - or he's specifically looking for women who would be amenable to this, at absolute best. OP saying it changed his view on 'women' is bizarre. Why would he assume all/most women are like this woman any more than I would assume all men are like the uncle (in which case I'd be called misandrist etc..)
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 04:03 AM
1

Oh, yeah, it was the royal "you" that was confusing me for sure. I thought that was you telling me that I wasn't being consistent, somehow. I also don't see how this had to be drawn out, especially because I said in my first reply that I did agree with financial abortions for men up till the same time women could get medical abortions. It just seemed that because I also said I thought we should consider what'd be best for the children and/or society that you thought I was being unfair to men. I …
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 04:01 AM
1

What makes you think I am not consistent and don't hold it for women as well? This is kind of what I meant by assumptions - you assume that I'm holding the view that you think a majority of women hold. But you are also saying that by me bringing up kids in that context, that means I think you didn't think of all angles. Me bringing it up doesn't necessarily mean I was thinking "because nobody but me thought of this", and I'm not sure why it would. It hadn't been brought up yet so I did - I'm not…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 02:25 AM
5

It's such a bizarre thing when what I see in real life is so wildly different from what people here claim is 'obvious'. Like - I'm not denying that there are people out there who say ridiculous things but where are these targeted campaigns claiming men are horrible for not being attracted to obese women? Like, that's just...not a thing. Let alone a widespread one that is more intense than the decades of "average man/hot woman" we see on tv/movies...
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 02:18 AM
1

Yeah that's pretty reasonable. My husband works in tourism, and nobody really cares. Most people have dyed hair, tattoos etc.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 01:06 AM
7

See, I don't get this. I compare what i hear about online, where most men are doomed to never find a woman or something is wrong with them - but then I look around at the actual couples I know and none of this remotely holds true. The only generalization I can kind of make is that if the couple isn't similar in looks, the less attractive of the pair usually has something else going on (sometimes money but I know one where it's definitely intelligence/personality). Like, I just do not see average…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/23 12:00 AM
4

Can you point me to where these are that say men need to find them attractive? Are they a common thing? I ask because I basically never run into these. Like I do see women posting about fat acceptance but it's usually more about fitting into clothes and shit vs. "men need to find me hot!" Like I'd guess youtube? But I don't think it's really mainstream at this point is it? We still tend to see far more of the reverse on TV or movies.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/06/23 11:57 PM
6

Yes, I legitimately DO NOT understand the view that there's more out there promoting that men need to find obese/unattractive women hot vs the reverse. Like - there's a few of those body positive ads to sell things to more women, is that what they mean? Because that is way way less prevalent than the hot woman/ugly trope that's everywhere. If they can dismiss it because it's a sitcom or a romcom we can dismiss it for being an ad campaign literally directed at women. I keep seeing all this stuff …
/r/PurplePillDebate07/06/23 11:55 PM
1

That wasn't uncommon but I don't know that it was really the norm for it to be quite that big a gap - I think men would often get married in their mid twenties to women a few years younger, or you'd have high school sweethearts marry straight out of high school.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/06/23 09:35 PM
1

Yeah, I can give anecdata the other way from the person above - I know several couples where the woman has a higher degree than the man and nobody who specifically excludes them. I do know women who specifically wanted someone with a 'real' job but that always included trades, just not things like waiter or gas station attendant. Not arguing any of this is good or bad but what I've seen personally doesn't really match the "women with degrees won't date men without no matter how much money they m…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/06/23 09:33 PM
3

Yeah, I think a lot of that is due to the ratio on the dating sites being something like 6 men to 1 woman, and the fact that so many guys swipe right on literally every single woman and then filter after based on who who swipes on them. I think trying to make too much of how it works in the very weird environment of dating sites is fairly doomed to failure.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/06/23 09:25 PM
1

I thought that as well, about who made it unfair. And I do agree it's built on artificial social rules we can change - I just wonder about the wisdom of focusing too much on the 'fairness' part of the equation, as like you said above, life isn't fair. Sure, all I really said was 'child involved' because it wasn't meant to be a deep analysis of the topic - like you said there's going to be knock on effects to any way you deal with it, and I don't know that there's one way in particular someone co…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/06/23 09:23 PM
1

I'm not complaining about the unfairness of pregnancy - I was comparing it to the unfairness of men not being able to have a say in if a pregnancy continues - how is one more accusatory than the other? I agree that consent to sex isn't consent to having a baby. I do feel like I'm debating in good faith and not making personal digs.But I didn't actually say "think about the poor children!" so much as I said that considering the knock-on effects to society is an important thing to do. I was enjoyi…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/06/23 08:35 PM
2

I think a lot of people get into their online echo chambers and then when they see anything that even slightly validates their worldview they run to their online spaces to talk about it. Be it 'all men are predators' or 'all women are shallow' or whatever. Looking around my actual life people are just nothing like the way it's described by any of these people where everyone is having casual sex all the time, high value and low value this and that....
/r/PurplePillDebate07/06/23 08:32 PM
1

That's fucking hilarious but I've absolutely known guys to do weird and cringy shit to try to be sexy - I don't necessarily think this means it's because they're goddesses but because the media can hypersexualize the weirdest things.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/06/23 08:25 PM
1

Right? I hear way more people making fun of astrology than actual people seriously into it.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/06/23 08:23 PM
2

My husband paints his nails black sometimes at work and nobody's said anything, but I do live in a very liberal area. I think a lot of it is regional and also depends on age, subculture etc.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/06/23 08:22 PM
1

Ok, but I'm not saying men made anything unfair to me, you just seem to be assuming all of these weird opinions. I'm not even blaming anyone. Of course I'd rather give birth with modern medicine, I can't imagine too many women would disagree with that. And yes I agree women aren't forced to get pregnant, men aren't forced to get someone pregnant. Why is what I'm saying an emotional response, but what you're saying isn't? Like I said, I was just spitballing and curious how you felt about things l…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/06/23 08:19 PM
1

Your first paragraph isn't true to me - nobody's out there trying to fix the unfairness of women having to give birth, be pregnant, potentially have physical consequences forever. I could make the reverse argument that it's as soon as something is unfair to men that people get all up in arms. I'm not really trying to contradict you, though - you're responding very aggressively here, I haven't said things should be unfair to men or 'think of the children' or 'oh boohoo'. I'm spitballing about the…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/06/23 07:45 PM
1

I don't agree with your premise here - lots of things are unfair to women, lots of other things are unfair to men. I'll try to parse out what you're saying. It wouldn't bother me if single women couldn't go to sperm banks, no. I'm not cherry picking, I'm just looking at different ideas - I'm not strongly arguing for it, just thinking about how it would impact society as a whole. To me, society is improved if there are fewer unwanted children, or children born into poverty. So abortion should abs…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/06/23 07:11 PM
1

Yeah I think the problem I see at the end of the day is that it's not just about what's fair to men or women, but also to the child involved. It's better for society as a whole if fewer children grow up in poverty, so I think I'm less concerned with correcting biological unfairnesses, or figuring it sort of evens out. Women have to go through pregnancy and childbirth which present serious health risks, and men have less options to get out of an unwanted pregnancy.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/06/23 06:59 PM
1

ya but if women actually treat sex like this lots of men are disgusted by her having a high count or being a ho etc.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/06/23 06:59 PM
6

this sort of thing is why I can't really take the redpill rhetoric seriously - they describe a world that I do not see any evidence of once I step off my computer. Like I think about the actual couples I know, people in my life, and very little if any of it fits into these 'obvious biotruths' or whatever.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/06/23 06:55 PM
9

It always surprises me how much guys claim that the standards for men are higher/narrower because I see the opposite in the media, where unconventional/older/chubby etc. guys still get roles as attractive men, women talk about their quirky crushes and so on, whereas with women they tend to be fairly cookie cutter.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/06/23 06:52 PM
3

I'd be really curious to know how many guys would actually choose the financial abortion option within the same amount of time women have for a medical abortion. I wouldn't necessarily be against it so long as the times were equivalent. The reason I say this is because in every situation I know of personally, the couple both wanted to have the kid and the man dipped in month 8 or shortly after birth, so it'd be too late for him to decide not to be a parent if you correlate that with women. Would…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/06/23 06:47 PM
–

Is being salty over height preferences ever *really* off topic on reddit?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/06/23 02:09 AM
1

It definitely isn't, but I don't think who physically initiates the divorce really says much - unless there's evidence that these are cases where the man doesn't want to divorce and the woman does, a lot of these are probably mutual.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/23 06:11 PM
4

Yeah and I kinda side eye the stats that involve who literally files for divorce, because sure in some situations it's one sided but in many others it's just who files the paperwork, which is often women because often women end up doing 'admin' duties regardless.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/23 06:09 PM
3

Right, this post almost seems to be about how someone would think love and relationships would work without actually seeing it play out. In real life people make bad choices *all the time*, and it's not always because the bad choice is better looking or objectively 'better' at all. If it were all transactional we'd all just decide who is the smartest person for us to form a relationship with and decide to develop feelings for them.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/23 06:06 PM
3

It also implies there's a really objective ranking of better that everyone not only agrees on, but can immediately see. People don't walk around with "5.7" over their head.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/23 06:05 PM
2

Your whole premise is that there's not going to be any long term relationships going forward, specifically, from 2023? This really just seems bizarre to me, as well as ignoring how human nature has worked for the thousands of years up till now. Not every single person out there falls out of love with their partner and rejects close bonds because there could be 'better options'. Sure some people think that way, but it isn't the majority.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/23 05:58 PM
2

It does seem like there's a certain element here who tries really hard to make men into discriminated victims.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/23 06:14 AM
3

Well I think a lot of guys imagine that a woman is settling or unhappy in her relationship if it isn't 'yacht guy', but it's often not really true. Like people say, oh an average woman with an average man means the woman is dissatisfied but the man isn't...There's no evidence of this, it's just a built up idea that can't possibly be disproved.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/23 05:12 AM
4

Yeah, the thing is there really *isn't* an equivalent of Leo. Many/most age gap relationships in Hollywood involve an older man and it rarely gets commented on. Leonardo DiCaprio is a particularly weird example because he does this repeatedly and never dates a woman above 25. People who have a partner who's significantly younger than them, and then stay with that partner as the partner gets into that 30s, 40s etc is not nearly as noticeable. There's also fame level to consider. DiCaprio is way m…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/23 05:04 AM
1

I don't think that commenter was a "her"
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/23 04:56 AM
6

Yeah, absolutely. And one of the reasons I (woman) wouldn't have wanted to date a single dad when I was single is that SO MANY of them were looking for replacement mommies to do childcare, free babysitting, etc. No thank you. I would probably have considered someone with older kids so long as it was understood I would not be taking on a "stepmom" type role.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/05/23 06:36 PM
–

Are you asking why women don't generally want casual sex? I would say that for me it's far far more likely to be mutually pleasurable with a partner I care about. With a rando it doesn't sound fun, and often is not! But neither does bowling or reading science textbooks, and people enjoy both of those as well.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/05/23 05:55 AM
11

it's not about you specifically. It's about how the post, and people on this sub, talk as though unattractive men could never date, never get in relationships and are alone forever. But getting away from the internet it's easy to look around and see people of all attractiveness levels married, in couples etc. Two fat middle aged people, two acne-ridden teenagers, whatever. That's the other thing - you say yourself that things you like are considered weird. Women also have different things we fin…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/05/23 05:51 AM
–

because it's not an appealing proposition
/r/PurplePillDebate30/05/23 05:38 AM
4

Yeah this seems pretty right in my anecdotal experience - I have known couples where either gender might have a higher libido, it's been a problem with both directions. But most women are not all that into the idea of casual sex - the circumstances have to align exactly perfectly for it to be particularly appealing. What I don't get is the idea that this is some kind of injustice though
/r/PurplePillDebate30/05/23 05:36 AM
–

That's kind of similar for me - When my guy and I first got together, I was neutral on marriage and he was against it. Then he changed his mind and wanted to get married. I was fine either way and we did, but if he'd never wanted to I think I'd have been fine with it. We got married after being together for ten years.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/05/23 11:50 PM
–

yeah some of this is pretty funny, it's like "see women, you could too get a long term relationship if you just go for a guy who won't leave you because he's afraid he'll never find another woman!" Oh good.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/05/23 11:42 PM
1

I mean...that's fair, but I'm still not seeing any 'legally forcing' here. I would personally define emotional abuse as being an asshole to someone, insults etc, which goes beyond just not caring about emotions of others, which would probably just involve not interacting with them. As far as I know nobody's trying to pass a law against that.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/05/23 05:47 AM
1

Wouldn't that also mean that men who aren't a physical threat because of being really old or infirm couldn't be leaders?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/05/23 01:13 AM
2

Yeah, and often these guys who see things that way also really deride women for 'only wanting Chad' and it's like....buddy....do you hear yourself?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/23 08:20 PM
3

it's honestly kind of sad that they dismiss the possibility that maybe the player and his wife are just...in love and he finds her really attractive. Like obviously I'm not saying there aren't other motivations, but is this really so impossible to them?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/23 04:32 PM
4

As we've learned, what people say they want is not necessarily what they actually want. A lot of men will say they're looking for a relationship, but that doesn't mean they're going to actually date someone - let alone someone is borderline autistic/retarded. I know lots of women who have met guys that claim to be 'looking for a relationship' and yet either leave if she doesn't sleep with him on the first date, or ghost after she does.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/23 04:18 PM
1

Evidence for that?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/23 04:16 PM
–

I meannnn there are definitely plenty of guys in here who talk about all women being liars, unable to argue in good faith etc. So it's not like your last statement is some shocking hypothetical...
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/23 01:19 AM
5

I think you're taking this a little too seriously or literally. It's meant to be a play on the fact that lots of people say things like "why would she choose the asshole jock over the quiet nerd who would treat her well" where instead the tweet ends by pointing out that just because someone is a nerd, quiet, and appears to be nice doesn't mean they're not a sexist asshole. There's been the media trend for ages where popular=evil and nerd=nice and some people really take that to heart. I do not t…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/23 01:10 AM
1

Yeah, I'm not saying that these women don't exist, just that the way some guys on here talk, it's the majority. I also disagree with the way some women talk like every man out there is a predator. I don't believe that's true either. I don't go to clubs so that's probably part of it, but most women I know, if they end up getting asked out by someone they aren't into they're more likely to just feel really awkward about it or make excuses to try to dodge them (which I know guys also hate) vs being…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/23 12:32 AM
1

If it's just for random special treatment, then how is them wearing makeup earning it less than looking like that naturally? If anything it'd be the opposite, as makeup is a skill and being born with perfect skin is genetics. Like I see the argument about relationships, because you could have a guy be attracted to a woman with makeup but not without. But who cares if it's about randos who will never see her again?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/23 12:00 AM
24

Sex? Yeah, because men like casual sex at a much higher rate than women do, so the demand is there. A relationship? No I don't think so.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 11:56 PM
1

Yeah - people notice the ways in which their own gender is not privileged and the other is.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 11:56 PM
9

Yeah the idea that unattractive women just cruise through life is one of those statements that is so far outside of what I've seen in my reality that it's hard to believe people are being serious.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 11:55 PM
–

When I was single it'd be a plus I guess, and maybe I would've been more likely to go on a date with someone if they were legitimately rich, tbf just for the novelty (I don't come from that sort of environment at ALL and I do not know anyone who makes anywhere close to that type of money) but I can't see staying in a relationship unless I was also into him overall.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 11:50 PM
2

I agree with you on that - I hope he did grow as a person. But I'm sorry - it's still really funny.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 11:42 PM
1

Yeah for some reason that last paragraph didn't appear when your reply first popped up. And that makes sense - you just are kinda phrasing it like women are doing something wrong/bad by not saying yes to a date in these situations. Of course guys should stop doing things that make them unhappy.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 10:53 PM
–

Yes I agree men should stop doing things that hurt their self esteem for sure.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 10:50 PM
2

I think your last paragraph is a *really* good point, too. Like I do not know any women like that - not a single one. I have a lot of female friends, partnered and not, and we've had a lot of conversations about attractiveness and lack there of and what i see really doesn't match with what I see guys on sites like this say women want. I do see it online though - there's definitely a male equivalent as well, the ones who pretty much only date instagram models. And those people are definitely loud…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 10:49 PM
–

I mean yeah if they're extremely exceptional maybe, though I think it'd still depend. I'd have been extremely suspicious of someone like that asking me out! But I'm serious - if you say it's invalidating for a woman to turn down a man who asks her out do you think that it should be a social expectation for women to go on at least one date with any guy who asks her? That sounds kind of tiring and annoying to be honest.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 10:47 PM
2

Yeah, I think that is part of the trouble - when guys go on and on about even average/ugly women being able to get sex/attention they are missing that it's not in any way a 'win' for an average/ugly woman to meet a guy who's willing to sleep with her and not actually like her in any way. Just because some men would like this doesn't mean women are somehow privileged.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 10:42 PM
–

But it isn't really about holding out for someone, so much as the fact that most women aren't going to want to go out on a date with someone they don't know. Unless you're in a club etc. environment where people looking for dates tend to go. Do you think that in general if someone asks out a single girl, she should say yes to a date?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 10:40 PM
2

There's another post on here asking for invisible women to talk about their experiences, and then saying it doesn't count because these women still get swipes on dating sites but because of men swiping on everyone, this is about as meaningful as bots messaging men. There's no actual interest in there.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 09:50 PM
–

Is it really invalidating to just not say yes to a date?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 09:50 PM
–

Your last point is pretty accurate. It falls into the same people who use "introversion" as an excuse to blow off their friends and be assholes to a cashier who makes smalltalk.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 09:48 PM
6

I think what he's saying is that this is someone who previously derided women who had the exact same radical shift in perspective as he's now having. So even if it is 100% honest, it's still funny. Regardless of what you think of somebody it's hard not to be entertained by someone doing exactly the same thing as what they mocked before.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 09:42 PM
2

it's honestly unfortunate that a huge amount of the evidence guys present on here is dating site studies, because that environment is so different from the real world it's almost incomparable - so many guys will match with every single woman without looking because of the low percentage of matches, and it turns into a weird cycle that's bad for everyone.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 09:36 PM
1

I do think that the percentage of women who like artsy, pale and sensitive is higher than men who like fat guys, but I see your point. In my experience, s long as you're not grossly out of shape and have a non-ugly face you can do OK by leaning into a particular style. Overall I would say that it's not bad advice to try to do things to appeal to a larger swathe of the population (for men or women) but where I get kind of annoyed is how many guys on here act like 98% or more of women won't ever w…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 09:23 PM
4

This is huge. I think it's much much harder for guys to have points of view like "all women are liars who just want Chad" when they have female friends to talk to and relate to about things other than sex/relationships. I see what you're saying with mixed groups as well - it's much much less segregated by gender than it used to be, which baffles and angers some people who can't imagine men and women being platonic friends.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 07:59 PM
3

Important how? I mean sure but I'd be curious how common those things were - I doubt they are any more common than women who are into different things. There's also the question of how many guys would actually date someone like that vs just looking at it in porn. I think that overall trying to generalize doesn't really work because individual tastes are based on a lot of things.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 07:47 PM
2

Oh I am.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 07:44 PM
6

It's definitely confirmation bias and taking anything they can as 'proving' their point. So I've dated a 5'4 guy and also a 6'1 guy - they'd look at the fact that I dated a 6'1 guy and be like "see!?! obviously height DOES matter!"
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 05:09 PM
3

well, half of very young women is still different from nearly all women - I'm older than that and Canadian, and none of my friends around my age would be anything other than embarrassed to be in a video like that. And that still means that 50% of 19-25 year old women *don't* have those points of view. Also videos are always edited to make people look worse. It'd be like comparing the average person to someone you see on reality tv.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 05:07 PM
2

Sure but most normal people are not going to want to be in videos like that. I do not know anybody who talks or behaves like the people in those videos.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 04:42 PM
2

I suspect the women in all these videos are not in fact a cross section of women in society but a pretty specific type of person.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 04:18 PM
5

Yeah, exactly. I like really intelligent guys who can hold a conversation for hours. Curly hair is a plus. I genuinely don't care about height and have dated a range (though that's something that guys have the hardest time accepting and it's not like I can prove it.) The problem I see is that men here keep either insisting women are lying or lying to themselves, or redefining any archetype women are into as 'Chad'. They keep saying 'oh but we see women who do X and Y' and I'm like...ok, who are …
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 04:16 PM
3

Yeah, this is getting a little bizarre. Chad was used insultingly but now it's any guy who's at all attractive to women?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 04:10 PM
8

100% this. It also tends to revolve almost entirely around what women find attractive, and have a weirdly accusatory tone, which I find so strange. Like most people might look at conventionally attractive folks of the sex they're attracted to, but that doesn't mean there aren't a million other factors in attraction or that people are sitting there 'settling' because they aren't with a model.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 04:08 PM
4

That's also wrong.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 04:06 PM
3

Do you have any non anecdotal evidence of this?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 04:05 PM
3

I always am a little baffled by the idea that women are more insistent on a conventionally attractive guy than the reverse, because it seems like the opposite to me. Like when I look at people talking about their less conventional crushes, there are tons of women who will mention weird-looking dudes, older guys, chubby guys etc compared to the opposite, but the focus is always 98% on women being obsessed with looks. In my real life experience, women have a much broader taste than men do in what …
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 04:04 PM
2

Yeah I think you're right, it's pretty mixed overall in reality. I think that in general *most* people end up with someone relatively close to them looks-wise unless there's another factor but then you add in personal taste etc and it's hard to generalize.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 03:53 PM
0

Ah no I'm agreeing with you! I'm saying that when you try to disprove their "women are sleeping with the top 10%" by pointing out most people get married, they say that doesn't matter because the married women are cheating with Chad, or whatever.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 01:37 AM
3

I have to wonder about these ratings. In real life I think there's usually a consensus about who's ugly, who's attractive and who's hot, but I doubt there's a consensus over what a 5 vs a 7 is.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 01:28 AM
0

ok honestly, has there ever been a video that has gone viral that's just a guy asking a woman out normally and taking no for an answer?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 01:26 AM
3

depends entirely on setting, situation, how you know her etc. I mean yeah if you're approaching people at random your chances will be super low because many women will be already partnered, not looking, not in the mood to chat etc. But if you're in a setting where it's more normal to talk someone, that's different.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 01:25 AM
2

Oh sure, I can see how one would argue that, but my point was more that the guy above was saying marriage was oppression - but if we accept the bio reality of different sex drives then offering women protections/incentives wouldn't be a bad trade-off, cause just getting mad at women for not wanting as much as them (while also hating women who DO sleep with lots of guys, kinda equalizing it a bit) isn't actually useful. I think the sex doll might work for some but it'd be like masturbating or hir…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 01:23 AM
2

exactly. The only place in which women have a vastly easier time is in getting casual sex. And yes, I know men want that and aren't getting it, but how is that on women? Men of every sexuality are more willing to have casual sex than women - it's why it's so much easier for gay men to find hookups, but no easier to find quality relationships.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 12:48 AM
9

this is so strange to me, because I definitely feel like I see the opposite, where you look at the woman and are like "why is she with HIM?' - it's even a pretty common joke/stereotype in the media.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 12:45 AM
–

This is not a majority of women though. It really isn't 'society', it's a loud online group. I bet that most people who aren't extremely online haven't even heard of it. In real life women do not run around screaming at men who don't want to date them because they're large. Most people IRL who are involved in anything like that just don't want to be oinked at on the street.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 12:42 AM
2

I get what you're saying. I only just recently found this place because I have a tendency to get into these types of arguments elsewhere. I have had a higher than average success rate with the conversations but even so some people just refuse to look outside their pre-existing mindsets of what all women are like. Or like...Reality, where most people are still in couples and most men are not 6'2 jacked millionaires yet still date women.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 12:39 AM
1

Oh sorry, yeah, I thought you were the OP of the post because you have the same colour flair, whoops. I do get what you're saying - I think though, that a lot of what you say is becoming increasingly common among adults trying to make friends, unfortunately. The internet has exacerbated this for sure. I guess what I'm thinking is that you probably see yourself as more socially isolated but it's likely some other people are in the same situation. We tend to compare the inside of our own heads to …
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 12:37 AM
–

The worst part is you can't even disprove it by pointing out most people still do get married or partnered, because then they say there's no proof those women aren't all cheating with those "top 10% of men"... it's delusional.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 12:29 AM
2

It's just the lack of logic that gets to me, if you take it to the inevitable conclusion.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 12:28 AM
1

How is talking about emotional abuse being bad trying to legally force people to accept their feelings?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 12:27 AM
2

yeah and a male who becomes a urologist might be gay - then what about women gynos?? This seems like a lot of sexual unpacking needs to be done...
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 08:51 PM
3

Yeah, and I'd also be like - I think I have a better perspective about who creeps me out than they would. Like we get told all the time we are *over* attuned to if guys are creepy!
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 08:50 PM
2

But don't you think that there are other people at those meetups who might feel or be just as awkward as you? Like if this is a really common problem, and I think it is - surely these people could find each other? I know that in high school I was one of the nerdy outcasts and we just hung out together. Like earlier in the post you talk about getting actual 0 social interaction, as in anyone you even try to talk to literally just walks away, but that's not what you say here, where you have pleasa…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 08:45 PM
3

Yeah, this is such a weird take. Like - following this to the extreme would mean that women are supposed to start saying yes to every guy who asks them out - but then we get criticized as sluts if we sleep with any of them - and if we date them and don't put out we get shit on for denying men their sexual needs/making them take us out and not providing anything... like, what is the ideal solution here?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 08:40 PM
–

What do you mean by women wanting to 'legally force people to accept their feelings'? I am not being sarcastic I generally don't understand what you're talking about - what law are women trying to pass about this?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 08:13 PM
1

Yeah I see so much arguing about the exact definition of need and whether or not men actually do have higher sex drives. But that kinda seems beside the point to me... assuming this is all true and it's a biological unfairness, what is the solution that people actually want to see here?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 08:11 PM
–

also wouldn't that mean women are less promiscuous? since they all would have fewer sexual partners... or something? I dunno. I just have to wonder what these people are on about who say that, like if this were true wouldn't there be loads of guys walking around with basically harems? Outside of very specific environments i do not see this happening. Most people are still in couples...
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 08:09 PM
1

Well part of it is that you often really *can't* tell what a guy will be like in bed before it happens, plenty of people talk a big game and the experience is not what they presented. It's also not just women who don't want to talk openly about it, some guys get really squeamish about talking about the details too, either because of upbringing or it'll spoil the moment etc.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 08:03 PM
–

Yeah - I think looking at this thread it's clear the biological unfairness goes both ways, and I think that people want some sort of remedy that will make things fair when they aren't. Biological unfairness means that men are more likely to be satisfied by any individual sexual encounter. It also means that men have a higher sex drive than women. Since neither of these things can be changed, and since so many depend on individual variance anyway I don't really think there's a way to *make* thing…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 08:01 PM
–

Yeah....If marriage is oppression, and women don't want sex as much as men, what would be an *equal* power dynamic in this person's mind? Like - if you see it as men have higher sex drives than women overall (yeah I think this is true in the abstract) then wouldn't it then make sense to have some sort of reason to engage it in when they aren't really wanting to, like say... a committed relationship with legal protections?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 07:58 PM
2

100%, yeah. Also most guys in the world haven't even heard of TRP and this entire philosophy, so they just live their lives like it doesn't exist and typically are fine. I think people who spend a lot of time online seriously overestimate how much other people have any awareness of the subcultures they dive deep into.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 07:36 PM
3

Yes absolutely. And women also talk shit with each other - especially the sort of people we're talking about, like a lot of women working together in the service industry is where I encountered most of the 'women bitching about men' so ofc I expect it's the same for guys.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 07:34 PM
3

You hit the nail on the head with your first two paragraphs. There's a difference between talking shit, which both men and women do about each other and always will, and constructing your entire philosophy around it to the point that you get disgusted when anything refutes it.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 04:44 AM
2

that's really interesting as it goes against the narrative about women who are educated being constantly unsatisfied.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 04:41 AM
3

yes totally. I think this is key. When I worked in a more blue collar area I saw how frequently the people around me would date/hook up with each other and it's like, yeah, a construction guy who's in shape but not great looking in the face will date a hairdresser with a kid and they're not really thinking or analyzing about all these concepts like 'hypergamy' or 'all women want Chads' or 'single moms are trash', they just wanna bang so they do.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 04:40 AM
1

Do you mean how men in those environments talk about women?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 04:38 AM
1

I wouldn't be surprised if having an IQ over 130 was detrimental to everyone in relationships in all honesty. Average-ish people don't overthink nearly as much for one thing.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 04:37 AM
3

This is interesting as a lot of the guys who really struggle with women who are in these positions tend to be the same ones who rant against the 'masculinity is toxic' view - but they don't really tend to perform traditional masculinity either, even though they post memes about it.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 04:35 AM
3

I think that sometimes people in these online forums don't realize what a big percentage of people don't even realize they exist, let alone agree with their worldview. I repeat some of what I hear here to people in my life (men and women) and they think I'm insane.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 04:31 AM
2

I wonder how much of this is based on region, age etc too. Anytime people talk about what women or men are looking for I think of the long-term couples I know and how true it is, sometimes I feel like I'm coming from a different world because most women I know are with someone with a similar level of education than them, but I know just as many who're with someone with a lower level as men. Then again I tend to know a lot of elder millennials with debt and in my experience the main qualification…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 04:30 AM
9

Yeah. Coder probably goes home to interact online whereas plumber is more likely to go to a pub. I saw this hard with my group of nerdy friends...when we were all in university or thereabouts we were constantly meeting new people, because the environment was made for us to do that. But then after graduation and later, a lot of us ended up working relatively solitary jobs and it became much much harder to find friends or romantic partners if we hadn't already. Hence...the apps, bitterness, etc.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 04:21 AM
1

I think a lot of people come here for confirmation bias. Like - asking a question like this is not meant to engage in real discussion. It's easy to spot because all the women talking about the men in their lives they value aren't getting real responses, but there's comments about how women must *all* be lying about valuing men because... it's a 'proven fact' that women lie on surveys or something...
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 04:14 AM
3

I feel like a lot of people asking these questions aren't going to accept what women actually say. So if I say to you, yes of course I do - you'll think I'm lying. I notice all the women talking about the men they do value with no responses. I wonder what the point is of asking questions like this even is if it's pretty obvious you already think you know the answer.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 04:12 AM
–

I think that if you're asking someone in person, they're likely not to immediately have the right answer or know what it is that you want - they are probably trying to be helpful, or give advice that they believe is helpful. I think if someone is looking for something when they talk about these things, be it just to vent, specific guidance etc, they probably want to make that clear. Also people might *think* they do know, so it's not dishonest not to say 'I don't know' - you just disagree with t…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/23 03:04 PM
1

I'm starting to think this is a huge part of the problem - people are meaning vastly different things. A point is made that women also struggle to find a relationship, it's not a men only problem, and then someone points out that nearly any woman can get casual sex quickly. But that's not the same thing at all, nor is it at all helpful. You have guys who talk about being insanely lonely and wanting to do anything for a girlfriend, and how 80% of women are sleeping with 20% of men etc - I say thi…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/23 05:09 AM
2

Then what is an indicator? Is there a study out there showing that short men have unhappier marriages? It's just a little odd to be like "short men aren't successful in love!" and then if you point to the fact that plenty of short men are married they say "well that doesn't count" - I mean what *would* count at that point?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/23 05:04 AM
–

wait, isn't it supposed to be the opposite? All I hear everywhere is "men want solutions, women just want to vent" and it's usually phrased as sort of a funny difference between the sexes, where the woman wants to vent and the man wants to give advice. But when a woman gives advice instead of listening to someone vent now she's saying men aren't allowed to share their feelings and being horrible? Doesn't really track.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/23 04:55 AM
26

Yeah - the idea that we deserve a partner who will never criticize us or tell us anything we don't want to hear isn't exactly a positive (for men or women). It's kind of the pinnacle of narcissism. You're basically dating a reflection of yourself, someone who will reflect back all your opinions and tell you everything you do is amazing.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/23 02:39 AM
2

yes and you have this problem where men want sex on the first date, expect it even to date someone - but then get upset about 'body count' so it's like - ok, how are you expecting this to work? How is a woman supposed to keep a 'low body count' when to date or find someone *at all* would mean sleeping with them?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/23 01:49 AM
3

It honestly always confused me when people talk about how guys have no hope unless they're a 8/10. I look around myself and couples are still forming, with men and women of all appearance levels. I'd say overall people usually end up with someone close to their own appearance level unless there's another factor going on but like...I know multiple guys who are nothing close to models who have girlfriends.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/23 01:43 AM
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