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edgar_vpacos Archive

View 3 posts and 92 comments by edgar_vpacos on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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1

Thank you for the kind words! I think that I am not more special than anyone else -- my journey to compassion in the face of rejection has been a deliberate one I have chosen to embark on, and not an innate thing I was born with. I think everyone can deepen both their self-love and empathy towards others. If you wish to avoid bitterness and if you wish to cultivate compassion towards women, I would advise you to begin straight away and for you to not wait until you are losing your looks. Focus o…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/02/21 09:00 PM
1

To address the main point of your post: if abstaining from sex was the way for women to succeed in dating... I would be a dating all-star. Lo and behold I am not. A large number of men will not want a sex-less dating experience for a long period of time, and it is valid for them to value having sex with a girlfriend. In the alternative, many men who are with a woman who says she is waiting until marriage will expect her to either have sex after she "decides he is the one", or else to marry very …
/r/PurplePillDebate26/02/21 03:14 AM
2

For a long time it used to. It was much worse because I was always told that even below average women can get dates, and so the rejection I faced as a woman led me to believe that there was something inherently wrong with me -- perhaps even beyond looks, something more fundamental. Later I began to realize that who dates whom has a lot to do with more than just whether I am worthy of love or whether I am wanted by the opposite sex. I started to reflect on men as individuals, each of whom have th…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/02/21 03:04 AM
2

I'm glad to hear that! Thanks for the thought-provoking and interesting dialogue we had, I learned and also had fun : ).
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/21 04:12 AM
1

Sorry for the extremely late reply, work has been unbelievably busy! I hope you still care to read my reply. I completely believe that you studied ethics haha. Rarely do people study things that they think they've got all figured out and take for granted. I realize that the reason your question doesn't resonate with me is because I don't think that being good and maximally taking care of yourself are mutually exclusive. I've been going at answering this question the wrong way this whole time and…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/21 07:42 AM
1

I majored in philosophy in my undergrad. That sounds really cool! Did you have a specialty? But utility aside I think you're right, I misspoke (mistyped) here. I should have said something like "external utility aside" before making an argument about the utility of an internal shift due to being good. That's what I get for making arguments half asleep after work. I think you're making a utilitarian argument about being good, here. I am trying at least! I figured it would reduce the likelihood of…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/01/21 06:46 AM
1

I don't get cat-called, no one tells me to smile more, etc. I remember almost every single compliment given by strangers. It isn't that I'm unseen, but rather I'm rather tall and I've been told that men feel intimidated by that, especially strangers. However, strangers talk to me rather regularly about more mundane topics. I work in an office. Prior to that I was self-employed or I was a university student. My hobbies are typical introvert ones, which are reading, video games, movies, and music.…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/20 06:17 AM
1

If you read my post, you'd see that the reason I bring up the experiences isn't because I want to matter to you. It's because even though your theory matches your experiences (which is valid!) it doesn't match mine at all and so I've been interested in how TRP accounts for my experiences. That's all. If I had a theory of human behaviour and then met a bunch of humans that didn't fit that theory, I'd question the theory even if it worked for me. At least I'd want to expand the theory. I respect y…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/20 05:49 AM
1

Ah, thank you for the clarification! Ok, philosophy it is! Although "why be good" feels more like ethics, whereas meta-ethics (i.e. "the ethics of ethics") is more like trying to define goodness as a noun and relate ethics to other areas of philosophy (it doesn't matter what we call it, just a quick note in case it was interesting to you). Well, utilitarianism is certainly one mode of gauging why be good. If there is no utility, you may not consider it useful. I argue that there no such thing as…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/20 01:48 AM
1

Oh, I didn't mean to suggest that you're RP, I just meant to say that our discussion made me want to ask the RP men on this sub the same question I asked you. Thank you for the clarification! However, I wonder what the point of participating in a debate sub is for me, then. - Some other folks have said that debating RP is about hard evidence, and as you suggest, anecdotal evidence (while still evidence) is the least convincing on an objective scale. I agree that if we're debating chiefly from st…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/20 01:18 AM
1

I know that I've approached men much more than they have approached me. I'm obviously not a distribution though, and am instead a single point on the graph. I've spoken to a number of my female friends on the issue of asking out, as I was worried that the reason I wasn't seeing much success in dating was because men might have been turned off by me doing the asking. That didn't make any sense to me (who cares who asks? Anxiety aside, I'm ok to do the asking if I had the idea first, after all), b…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/20 12:58 AM
1

I think that this is a very valid and fair analysis, thank you!
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/20 12:54 AM
1

I can go into further detail if you'd like. I'm not trying to convince you, I'm just interested in how the RP explains my experiences. What details are pertinent to your analysis, if you want to give one?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/20 12:53 AM
1

Thank you, you as well! I wish you all the best, in love and in life.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/20 12:50 AM
1

I think we come here to argue the best strategies and ​ see how close we come to the truth of interpersonal relationships. Ah, I think that this is really important point, thank you! I think my initial impression was that we are discussing human behaviour and the reasons behind it (which would perhaps lead to the best strategies, but foremost would lead to understanding not just another gender but also ourselves and our own behaviour). But a lot (most?) red pilled folks here seem to agree with y…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/20 07:58 AM
1

What about... "I asked out a guy who had no job, no income, played video games all day, had no friends, and he laughed in my face and said no, hurting me deeply after I asked him in good faith."; "I dated a different guy who had no job, no income, spent his days playing video games, and I loved the hell out of him because he was gentle and kind to me. I was devastated when we broke up."; "I had a huge crush on a short quiet balding guy but he told me he would never date a woman like me because I…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/20 07:18 AM
1

That's very true: we must always teach and nurture our children. Our children learn from us and copy us; it is our duty to show them what self-compassion and self-care look like too. It's heart-warming to read a father's love, it sounds like they're very lucky kids. I think that people learn to care for themselves when others didn't care for them when it was needed. That doesn't mean that all of us couldn't use a bit of care from others, even if we've learned to survive on our own! Therefore I'l…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/20 07:10 AM
1

I think that TRP isn't unique if that's the litmus test, then; if all you want is one or more sexual relationships, that sounds like a numbers game is all you need. TRP's core ideology is irrelevant, at first glance. If I said "be kind and be thoughtful to others", eventually if you try to date hundreds of women, you will very likely get a sexual relationship regardless of if my advice was particularly helpful. It feels like the true lure of TRP isn't that it makes you successful, but that it he…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/20 06:27 AM
1

But then why be part of a debate sub? Aren't you here to debate and "question what you believe"?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/20 06:17 AM
0

I mean... I can give my own example: I ask out men the vast majority of the time, and I almost always pay for the entire meal because I'm the one that asked. Men don't always like that, and I've had men fight me on it because it was emasculating. The men who told me that men would accept a date from a log if it asked him out are the same men who got so uncomfortable with the idea of a woman who was too independent that they said it was "intimidating" and "emasculating". I don't know what the rat…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/20 06:14 AM
2

That sounds like such a beautiful scene. Thank you very much! I'll tell you a little secret back: any person whose opinion is worth giving a damn about can see that the happiness of children is directly the result of the good, tough choices of their parent. People tend to keep admiration to themselves, which can skew the ways in which we gauge the opinions of society. Most importantly, I hope someone is caring for you these days the way you sound like you're caring for others. All the best, my f…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/20 06:02 AM
0

I agree: the kind of study that control for the kinds of lying some red pilled folks accuse women of doing seems really unlikely, even for ethics reasons alone. But we are in a debate sub -- aren't we here to "question what we believe"? The most I can do is tell you the truth about my lived experiences and believe you + learn from you when you tell me about your lived experiences. How can I prove the way I feel, the way I think, the way I live? This isn't even about changing your opinion about w…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/20 05:50 AM
1

What? No, I have no idea who that person was and I wasn't aware that that person was saying what they said. Their views are their own -- I'm not affiliated with anyone else on Reddit, I promise. The only messages that represent my views are the ones I write. I really enjoyed the way our conversation turned out when you and I had it, in fact it was one of my favourite conversations in my time here so far. I was so grateful when you took time to explain concepts to me, and I really appreciate how …
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/20 05:40 AM
1

I think that, rather than going deeply into meta-ethics ("what is goodness?"), I think that I define goodness these days as "something left better than it was found". Do I try to be a good person? Yes of course. AM I a good person? I hope so, but I think that the only way to begin to answer that is the adjacent question: have I been good to you, the other person, today? And then you can tell me whether I impacted you such that your experience became better than when I found it. If there is an af…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/20 05:33 AM
2

Hehe thank you! I'm so happy to hear it! Please take care of yourself -- I wish for your happiness, safety, health, and the positive plot twist miracle in your life that you've been hoping for. Truly.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/20 05:23 AM
3

I think that part of the reason I'm so skeptical about the red pill is exactly because I don't believe I'm a special snowflake. If I don't fit into the red pill's predicted pattern, surely many other women don't either. I don't feel immune to social pressure or biological imperatives -- this is another reason why I am so skeptical of the red pill: if I were biologically predetermined to be a certain way, I would be that way (or at least I would feel a little bit that way). Therefore I become cur…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/20 05:19 AM
1

I'm not upset about what you think, although I care if folks are hurting, including if red pilled men are hurting. I think that I want to learn from folks who hold different views than me and thought that debate was a good way to do that. I've had a lot of fun and a lot of learning on this sub already, but sometimes it feels like it isn't a true debate because a lot of folks won't engage with my lived experiences even though I engage with theirs. It just feels like a lost opportunity for more gr…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/20 05:15 AM
0

I mean... typical psychology datasets often take the form of a large volume of anecdotes given by people, right? Anecdotes compiled and analyzed, attempting to control for other factors? If I said a study of a thousand women consistently rated shorter men as equally attractive as tall men, you may find that more compelling than if over the course of your lifetime you heard a thousand individual anecdotes from women... I think that studies that are controlled have clear evidential preference, but…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/20 05:11 AM
1

But why participate in a debate sub? My experiences are completely opposite of TRP, but I don't suggest that you can't "beat" my worldview because I am open to the possibility that my understanding of my past experiences are filtered through my own bias, my own flawed narrative of self. We must use logic and reasoning, or else be susceptible to correlation vs causation issues.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/20 04:59 AM
1

I think that this is a really valuable insight, thank you! What you wrote has me thinking about the nature of this debate. I think that this is what troubles me: The Red Pill seems to be a theory about the dynamics between men and women, and so falsifiable and at the very least debatable (thus the point of this sub). But the problem is that people who subscribe to the Red Pill don't seem to be debating a theory, they seem to be onus-shifting to the extreme -- the onus is on the other side not ju…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/20 04:56 AM
1

Thank you for your insight! I really appreciate your clear, helpful response. I wish people would believe me when I tell them that an experience such as yours is not only possible, but far more likely to succeed than TRP suggests. The resources you sent are also very helpful, thank you!
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/20 04:45 AM
1

Alright, yes thank you again! This has definitely been the most enjoyable conversation I've had in a really long time. Please PM me whenever! You can also ask my opinion on issues outside of TRP as well, I'd be happy to discuss whatever ideas you'd like.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/20 04:43 AM
1

Ah I see! Thank you for taking the time to explain these terms to me, I really appreciate it!
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/20 05:25 AM
1

Ah, that definition makes sense, thank you! I agree that I will likely compare others to him, but only because he was so gentle and kind and so I want my future partner to be at least as gentle and kind as him. Can you please explain why it is hypergamy? My understanding of hypergamy is more about social class and trying to rise in social status through relationships. Thank you!
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/20 05:15 AM
0

The red pill is an effective strategy for dating not necessarily for an already established ltr, that’s a completely different dynamic. This is a really interesting take, thank you!
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/20 05:09 AM
1

lol "Alpha widow" is a new term for me, thank you. I don't know if others would have characterized my ex as an "alpha", although I loved him and wanted him with all my heart. No I hadn't considered r/redpillwomen -- I think that that's a great idea, thank you! I may just take your advice and ask them a few questions too. Thank you very much, you as well!
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/20 05:06 AM
1

I... really hope that you're a real mall Santa for some reason lol. Also thank you for not being a narcissist and thank you for not trying to destroy women because of their choices. Just... thank you. I also took rejection on the chin, and it takes guts.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/20 04:40 AM
2

Thank you : ). Sell me marriage. I'm listening. Well, I can try to sell you marriage based on how I would have been. I guess it's up to you whether or not you believe that marriage with a woman can be like that. To me, a husband would be a best friend, a mate to walk through life with. He would be my partner in every sense. He would be allowed to be as emotional, as fragile, and as scared as I would be. To me, a marriage is based on honest, open communication and growth. We would trust each othe…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/20 04:30 AM
2

Thank you for this! I feel like you are really engaging with my post in good faith and I appreciate it, truly. ​ I mean, I, like most red pills, do not want to be correct, we want to be wrong, that there is a way to find happiness, that the world is not as bleak as how we see. the thing is... there is no evidence of such, and there is no lack of evidence of the opposite. ... Your words and anecdotes are to us are just similar to fictino, I am sorry but for all we knew, it is all imagination and …
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/20 04:16 AM
2

But that's my point: it's my current understanding that the onus is on the red pill because they have made a theory about human behaviour. Every theory about human behaviour should have a limit where after a certain amount of contrary evidence, that theory is essentially debunked. I am curious if anyone here has any idea about what kinds of contrary evidence would suffice for their own personal "limit" before they question their view. I agree wholeheartedly that there is no proof theory for huma…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/20 03:59 AM
8

Thank you for this! I am grateful for you laying out the logic of TRP, it was very helpful and interesting! I presume that we are debating point 3, then: the reason why women make different choices about different individuals. At first glance it seems like it's really obvious to me, as a woman: that there is no uniform reason among women. You can ask every woman individually about every individual person and why they accepted or declined sexual activities with that person. If you survey 10 women…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/20 03:56 AM
5

Hence, the nature of the subject precludes any attempt at formal epistemology. I think that my initial reaction to first hearing about TRP was surprise that folks would make such a broad claim, i.e. that they can predict intersexual dynamics reliably. Especially because I didn't fit into that prediction pattern at all, and neither did the women around me. That is why the most interesting support -- not formal evidence though -- for claims in this field comes from history and other cultures aroun…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/20 03:49 AM
1

Ok, thank you very much! That was a helpful distinction.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/20 03:43 AM
5

Reading my own previous reply again, I think I was too snarky and so I decided I should make amends; I have been doing my best to practice non-judgment and compassionate communication in the last few months, but it is a work in progress for me. I apologize if I offended you in any way. Back to the thread: Perhaps the only thing disproving TRP can only be TRP itself. But it's observable today that more women are flocking to the safety of the "trad" than ever before. Could you please elaborate on …
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/20 03:42 AM
0

So what you're saying is that the difference between being redpilled and being a TRP-er is the scope of the belief? Many vs all?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/20 03:31 AM
3

I suppose a simpler way of stating this would be, that getting me to discard the Redpill would require humanity to start acting differently. But this assumes that you know how humanity has been acting in the first place. This is the very fact that we are debating here, because many non-red pill folks here are saying that you're wrong in that assertion. I am asking: what kind of evidence should I bring to this debate sub, such that you would question your belief about the way humanity acts? Thank…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/20 03:27 AM
6

Let me rephrase my post. We are in a debate, you and I. I ask you what kind of evidence would move you in this debate. You have subscribed to a view, presumably, that has made a positive statement about the world, i.e. the intersexual dynamics between men and women. All positive statements ought to be disprove-able. "The sky is blue" would be disproved if we saw the sky is purple. "All crows are black" would be disproved if we saw one non-black crow. These are practically impossible to actually …
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/20 03:21 AM
2

I agree that it is a tendency for humans to assume trends -- I don't villainize this tendency, nor am I exempt from it. But I also think that when we are in a debate, we should question our own position and understand what we are looking to gain from the other side. I understand that my generalizations about certain groups that I label as "other" based on my a knee-jerk reaction are not actually reasonable most of the time, and so I try to avoid bringing them into debates. I thus ask this questi…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/20 03:08 AM
5

Could you please elaborate on the difference between being redpilled and being a TRPer? Thank you!
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/20 03:03 AM
4

So you're saying that you have no intention to debate in this debate sub? Because you just assume that your current understanding of the world is always going to be objectively correct? And you assume that you could never be wrong about your view of other people, even if at first it seems clearly correct to you? I'm sorry to hear that. Some of the greatest conversations I've ever had have been ones where I learned I was wrong, and I'm a better person for being open to them. Thank you for your ho…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/20 03:01 AM
2

Thank you for your reply! I didn't quite catch the answer to my question in your reply: what kind of evidence would make you question your theory? Could you please rephrase it by laying out clearly the kinds of evidence that would make you question your theory?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/20 02:53 AM
2

I mean... "if these goals are in conflict both sides cannot be happy " is necessarily true by definition, but that's a big "if" and the point of our discussion. I think that the goals of some individual men are incompatible with the goals of individual women (and vice versa), but I think that this has less to do with the goals of each gender on a broader scale. For example, I am sure that there are some men who have the goal of not allowing women to work in positions of authority over men becaus…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/20 01:54 AM
1

You're very welcome! This kind of stuff is why I came to this sub in the first place. I think that the goals of some individuals are incompatible with others, but I don't think that these are gendered, necessarily (as in, gender wouldn't be the defining part of the equation). I think that there are systemic biases against every gender in different areas, and so I think removing these systemic biases (including those biases against men, which are very real and valid in my opinion) would benefit e…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/12/20 04:27 AM
1

this really resonates with me because I highly value open, honest, and direct communication in a relationship (I know some people really enjoy game-playing and "the chase", and so I don't mean to put those people down -- this is just me). If I want something in a partner, I shouldn’t try to change them or expect them to change; I should respect that our values differ.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/12/20 07:01 AM
1

lol thank you for this.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/12/20 06:45 AM
1

I think that many women have a lot of options in dating, but not all. I used to be really embittered by being told that I as a woman have a ton of options and that men would go out with any woman that asked, because I (and a number of the women I've known over the years) have had a lot of struggle and rejection when it comes to dating. I'm also usually the one asking men out on dates (I do so in a clear, unambiguous way). I'm not saying that my experience represents the experiences of all or eve…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/12/20 06:27 AM
1

Can you please explain why women can find guys who are into the same things, but men can't find women who are into the same things... if they're into the same things? Or is it just that you assume that women have more options and so it's just more likely that they can find a man who shares their interests?
/r/PurplePillDebate25/12/20 07:58 AM
1

I don't watch porn, but I personally wouldn't care about him watching porn per se. I would care if he had a porn addiction, or he was watching porn because he isn't attracted to me, or if it negatively affected our relationship in some other way but I think that those are separate issues from porn-watching itself.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/12/20 07:54 AM
1

I would always greatly prefer having closure by being told why, even if that reason is hurtful or otherwise a criticism about me personally. The reason is because I want to 1) make amends if possible, if I did something wrong, and 2) avoid making that mistake in the future. <-- this to me is not functionally useless because it affects my future actions. If the reason isn't something I did wrong, I'd like to know that so I stop worrying about if I did something wrong. It almost never happens, but…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/12/20 07:49 AM
1

I definitely choose a man who sticks by me and cares for me will win over some guy whose only benefits over that first dude are his physical attractiveness and money -- if I am financially independent, his money is literally irrelevant. His physical attractiveness is essentially immaterial if he's not even present if the hypothetical has me a single parent. I choose option 1.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/12/20 07:40 AM
10

This post is quite abstract and as such women will have a hard time understanding it. Thank you for your post. I am a woman and welcome all abstract posts -- please do not worry about women not understanding on the basis of abstraction! I think that a lot of human beings are grounded in reality, especially those who suffer from things like poverty, food insecurity, and other material needs and danger. I think what you may mean (please correct me if I am wrong) is that people whose needs are in d…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/12/20 07:29 AM
1

Personally, I think that it is paramount to the relationship; I can never be truly happy with my partner if I know he is not happy with me. That isn't to say that my future partner has to always be happy in general, but if I know that he is not happy being with me anymore, it will be a swift decline and the relationship can't continue in good faith. I would try to put in as much effort as possible to understand why he isn't happy and to try to communicate and find a solution to whatever is makin…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/12/20 07:08 AM
6

Thank you for your post! This is really interesting stuff for me too! TL;DR: no, I don't think that men have less intrinsic value compared to women, and so no, I don't think it boils down to that. I feel like a lot of your assertions are untrue in my experience and in the experience of those around me. Particularly: ​ I genuinely do think that intersexual dynamics is a zero sum game: for one side to win and achieve their goals, the other must lose. Therefore, there is no solution to men's AND wo…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/12/20 06:53 AM
1

Thank you very much! Is there a time-limit I should be aware of for future posts, where if I don't log into reddit to reply then my post will be removed for abandonment?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/20 10:22 PM
1

I think that your point is valid: society collectively defines what society values. If anything, it seems at first glance that that's necessarily true and almost a tautology. It makes me think of three separate responses, laid out below: 1) I think that those kinds of definitions are more malleable than they appear. Think about everything that influences your opinion subconsciously: media, sure, but also what you hear and read and see around you. This is where our power as autonomous beings feel…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/20 10:19 PM
1

Ah, I think I see your confusion! I would be happy to elaborate: "I have been lied to" "I am not good enough" "I won't be accepted for who I am" <-- this rhetoric feels like it has to do with someone's humanity because of an implied assumption I took for granted: that part of being human is about being accepted by other humans. I originally thought that TRP thinking looks like this: P: To fully take part in the human experience is to connect with other humans and have them accept giving me love …
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/20 07:29 AM
1

I think that an internal struggle about one's humanity isn't the same as an external genocide. I've not suggested that and if it came across as such, it was not my intent. Why is it nonsense? I gave examples of what I meant by rhetoric; was it not clear? Or are you taking issue with the way I write?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/20 06:42 AM
1

I am absolutely open to believing men, and I do respect their word. I've suggested an alternative take based on what sounded like mis-matched rhetoric and logic that didn't always follow, and am asking for clarification in case my take is wrong (thus my post was CMV). I have suggested that they, like all human beings, may be mistaken about the roots of their worldview and have therefore invited both introspection on their part and also rebuttals that can spur learning on my part.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/20 06:37 AM
1

All good, my friend, thank you for your kind words. I can now say that I live life on my own terms, and I have hope that no matter what my future looks like, I can be happy. I wish the best for you and I wish for your happiness as well!
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/20 06:34 AM
1

Hm, I see your perspective. I think that for me personally, I don't see my identity as having a gendered and individual side, but rather they are interlinked too closely to separate. I also don't feel like I perform my gender, but rather I just act as feels natural and then people code some of my actions as feminine and others not. Thank you for your elaboration, it was helpful!
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/20 06:31 AM
2

This has been so helpful, thank you very much!
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/20 06:29 AM
1

To deserve something is not the same as to get it. My point was to invoke an internal paradigm shift, and to suggest that we should view ourselves as worthy of better. I think that people want to hear that they are /more/ special or /more/ worthy of love than others, in order for that worthiness to matter, but I don't think so. I don't think that everyone being worthy is the same as no one is. I think that everyone deserves to feel love in some genuine way and thus have their human need for feel…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/20 06:26 AM
1

I think that I was devastated because I wanted a loving relationship really badly and the effort I put in amounted to what seemed to be nothing. I think I also put in a decade or so. But I stopped being devastated when I realized that the past doesn't equal the future, and that it didn't mean that I wasn't worthy of love. That's what spurred my post.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/20 12:58 AM
1

But I am not trying to sound smart, I am trying to be part of a debate. Isn't that why you are here as well? If I said "all dogs are brown" and you pointed to a single dog that is any other colour, then I said "I'm talking about the norm", you would tell me to make a different statement. Anyways, thank you for your replies regardless -- you are my first reddit conversation! Please take care.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/20 12:55 AM
1

Thank you for your reply! I think that I make my argument based on the way the world is for me and also for the people around me. I know that reproduction is the literal reason that I exist, and so that statement of yours is completely true. But at most your argument leads to me not reproducing as the literal rejection of my offspring's existence. I already exist -- can people rejecting me sexually really reject my existence? I think that your argument assumes that the reason for the beginning o…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/20 12:43 AM
3

I think that the onus is on the red pill to explain why they believe that sexual dynamics are as uniform as they suggest. I always view people as individuals and don't really expect sexual dynamics to be as simple as the red pill seems to lay out. I feel like I make very few assumptions about men because I want very few assumptions made about me as a woman. I don't really fit in the red pill narrative, and neither do any of the women I know. Can you please elaborate further on how the red pill g…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/20 12:33 AM
1

You have the right to feel that way and I will not tell you that you are wrong for your preferences. As long as you are honest with your partners and they are adults who consent to being with someone who feels that way, I see no problem.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/20 12:29 AM
1

I think that that's true for a lot of men, but that the reason they only seem to care about sex is because they are conflating sex with something more fundamental, more necessary.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/20 12:27 AM
1

My answer to your question is yes. You and I are worthy of love even if no one will do it for us. We are worthy of love and of happiness and of the feeling of being wanted and of being part of a community. No one /deserves/ sex from any particular person, but we are all born worthy of /love/. I absolutely will stand by this fact and urge you to rethink your experiences. The pain you have felt is valid and I am not asking you to not feel it. I am asking you to rethink what those experiences /mean…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/20 12:27 AM
1

Thank you for this clarification! Much appreciated. Could you please elaborate on why it was devastating? I know it may seem obvious on the surface but I would appreciate it if you could distill it for me, and the reason /why/. Thank you!
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/20 12:19 AM
1

Thank you for your point lol. Is that really the whole of the movement though? Isn't there more to it than that? An idea of how the world really is? Of being lied to? I'd be interested in you elaborating on why you think that that's the essence of the red pill, as it was my understand that it encompasses a worldview beyond men wanting casual sex from attractive women. Thank you!
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/20 12:18 AM
2

Ah -- this was what I was looking for! Thank you for clearing up that sentiment. I feel like there is way more at play here though, beyond commitment being a cost. The reason /why/ it is considered a cost goes deeper because I would presume that if red pillers saw relationships as friendships with give-and-take, the whole dynamic of the movement would change. It is the perceived selfishness of women and the perceived inability to "be yourself" and be accepted "for who you are" that seems pervasi…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/20 12:16 AM
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I think that the reason I feel that they've been rejected in their humanity (their personhood?), and not just for something really fun and great, because of some of the rhetoric I have read suggests that kind of thing. "I have been lied to" "I am not good enough" "I won't be accepted for who I am" -- that kind of thing. I think that you are wrong -- the "demanding" party also has to reach a threshold of attractiveness. My own journey into this subject happened ironically because I felt lied to. …
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/20 12:11 AM
1

I think that I often fall into that trap, and so please feel free to correct any assertions I have made about the red pill with other movements / ideologies. Thank you! I think that these are my observations. My own conclusions about the world as I have lived it. And I am asking people to CMV by giving perspectives beyond my own. I would be happy to give my take on any addition observation you would have, and then offer my personal advice if asked for.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/20 12:05 AM
1

I think that these analogies don't line up because self-love and self-worth aren't finite resources gained outside ourselves like money is. I absolutely believe we should understand why we fail and how we can do better in achieving any of our goals, including goals with the opposite sex. I would never condone otherwise. What I am saying is that once we stop equating being rejected in relationship with something far more sinister, it is much easier to stop seeing women through these (I argue) wro…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/20 12:03 AM
1

This was my point -- that you are not worthless. 1) I don't think that this is widely accepted in society. But, even if I grant this: 2) even if it is widely accepted in society, it shouldn't be and we can change it because we can derive our worth through our own inherent value. That is what my post is about. We can see ourselves as worthy of existence, worthy to thrive, and people of all genders thus support each other as we learn to be better as people and love ourselves.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/12/20 11:58 PM
1

I think that you're right, being rejected for sex hurts in and of itself for many men, and I am glad if it's not connected to a man's humanity. Can you please elaborate as to why sex is a huge part of a man's identity in your view? Is that his identity is being rejected? Or that something is happening to his identity itself? Because if the first, then I think my point still stands because our identities are essentially who we see ourselves are, and therefore what we are in our own experiences. I…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/12/20 11:56 PM
1

What? No I was just away for 24 hours : ( How do I get it back up?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/12/20 11:48 PM
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I'm only taking issue with the fact that you said you could "guarantee" that it's the opposite, because you can't. You made a blanket statement about everyone, not the norm. Thus it was easily defeated with a single exception. Next time consider thinking through the logical scope of your statement, and reel it in if necessary; it will help you make stronger arguments in the future.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/20 04:56 AM
1

but that's exactly my point -- the idea that we can "guarantee" what every woman feels about a certain subject is defeated by a single real-world example such as mine. It proves that in a world of billions of women, even if every woman you have ever encountered thus far turned out to be a certain way, that could be a statistically negligible minority of women in general, and so any woman (or every woman) you meaningfully encounter in the future could be different.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/20 06:12 AM
1

That may be true for some, but that's not true for all women. The hottest experience I ever had was when the guy asked for consent for everything that we did and respected when I said no for some things. I was mid-late 20s.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/20 10:27 PM
1

I agree that it's sexy, although it is obviously subject to personal preference. I've been told before that asking for consent was a turn-off, but that wasn't always the case and it's never stopped me from asking. I think that more people -- men and women -- want to be asked for consent than it initially may seem. I think that the main reason that some people feel that being asked for consent is sexy (not just "required", but actually a positive) is because it makes you feel both listened to and…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/20 08:59 AM
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