TheRedArchive

~ archived since 2018 ~

fgyoysgaxt Archive

View 4 posts and 592 comments by fgyoysgaxt on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
Search in:
In subreddits:
More
Filter by year/month:
Upvotes Comment on Subreddit Date (UTC)
25

Especially on platforms and in circles where this kind of stuff is the norm, I doubt they understand how hateful they are being. There are people who can unironically say "I hate men" and not understand how that is hate speech.
/r/MensRights30/11/21 12:11 AM
1

lol hey Mongoose, not surprised to see you here mate 😎👍
/r/MensRights11/11/21 08:49 AM
3

Absolutely, equal rights and social justice for everyone!
/r/MensRights10/11/21 03:16 AM
7

It's ok to be an egalitarian and an MRA - and a feminist. There's two schools of thought; either feminism should be expanded to cover non-female issues, or it shouldn't. IMO it's not useful for feminism to be a "jack of all progressive movements", nor is it appropriate for feminist leaders to be leaders of men's rights (men should lead the fight for men's rights, not women). It's better for people to support multiple movements - support men via MRA (and related movements), support women via femi…
/r/MensRights10/11/21 03:14 AM
1

Hi, feminist and MRA here, it's nice to see your take. I think it contains points that feminists and MRAs can all agree on, and that is so important for building bridges and strengthening the connection between the movements. Thanks for your post!
/r/MensRights10/11/21 03:12 AM
2

Beware prejudice mate. Happy you could see what I'm saying though.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/06/21 02:56 AM
1

Ok, so long as you are aware that your problem is with specific definitions...
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/06/21 02:55 AM
-1

Yup, but it's not a core part of the definition that is agreed by the community. You can see that it's not the focus of the definition. ​ I do... but i do have issues with some aspects of that community... That's fine, me too, but if we fight everything without thinking then it doesn't lead anywhere good.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/06/21 02:41 AM
0

That's a corollary, not part of the definition. Please understand that there are a lot of feminists, and they say a lot of things. There is a big difference between the academic definition of a term and the huge field of research that surrounds it. Here are some common definitions: "a system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it." "Patriarchy is a social system in which men hold primary power and predominate in roles of political leadership, …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/06/21 02:01 AM
2

I have done no such thing mate. My definitions are consistent.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/06/21 01:57 AM
-6

Because "patriarchy" refers to the entire system, not just those at the top. ​ There's two separate ideas there which I think are getting confused. The patriarchy, a descriptive term for our society where most power is held by men (eg CEOs, senators). Our society has a lot of problematic gender roles, such as male disposability, which we want to end. Keep those two things separate in your mind. There are two ways that feminists have attempted to address these problems. Traditional feminists have…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/06/21 07:02 AM
-5

I think you've read into it to find that meaning, that's not a normal part of the definition of the patriarchy IMO. The term itself is descriptive. The key to the term is just that men are holding more formal positions of power.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/06/21 06:14 AM
-2

I think you somewhat dodged the issue. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems your argument as to why the patriarchy is a false concept is that male domination is essentially justified because men have greater chances of having better temperament or IQ which works better in those fields. That may be all well and good, but just saying "there is a biological, scientific, basis for why most CEOs and senators are men" does not change the fact that most CEOs and senators are men. Would it be fair to sa…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/06/21 04:03 AM
10

I can definitely sympathize with your perspective. The kind of attitude you are talking about really frustrates me. Just today a feminist replied to me and said "Feminists shouldn't care about being liked, they should only care about women. Social approval is completely and utterly useless. ... Rude and mean feminists are always more effective." in defense of some extremely sexist feminists. I hate this kind of tunnel vision and "the end justifies the means" mentality. It's not appropriate or ac…
/r/MensRights24/06/21 08:30 AM
0

I don't know how they calculate their rates in the post tbh, so I guess I can't really comment.
/r/AntiFeminists24/06/21 01:43 AM
9

Yes, but remember we are talking about the peak rate, so it may not be averaged over those 30 seconds. For example if 2 people bake cakes, maybe it takes an hour (fairly simple cakes). But if person 1 finishes, then person 2 finishes 2 seconds later, then the peak "rake baking rate" would be 1 cake per 2 seconds.
/r/AntiFeminists23/06/21 08:45 AM
8

If you only had 30000 vaccinators then wouldn't 30000 per second peak be possible? All you need is for them to be logged at the same time. In this case they have 40000 centers, which could mean half a million vaccinators for all we know.
/r/AntiFeminists23/06/21 08:27 AM
7

It is physically impossible for 40000 vaccinators to do 30000 per second. 40000 centers may mean greater than 40000 vaccinators. But if everyone logs the vaccination completed around the same time then that would be why the peek is so high.
/r/AntiFeminists23/06/21 07:16 AM
3

I think that shows how we need to consider the other perspective. It's very easy to tunnel vision and only think about yourself, instead of considering how this might impact other people.
/r/MensRights23/06/21 03:57 AM
10

And female privilege is the system of... etc you get the drill.
/r/AntiFeminists22/06/21 06:21 AM
1

lol ok mate. Seriously, the reason why they banned you is because you made a useless post that you only intended to insult them. You didn't attempt to argue or make any point, your post contributed nothing to the thread and was only there to cause trouble. Any sane mod on any sub would punish you for that. It's not a good thing to let people go around shitposting on a sub. There are plenty of actual problems with feminism, we don't need people go around trying to troll them then getting mad when…
/r/AntiFeminists22/06/21 04:59 AM
-6

All I see is "I'll support it if women like you don't become mothers to children", which definitely looks like a completely unproductive shitpost which you only made to try and piss the OP off.
/r/AntiFeminists22/06/21 04:42 AM
-8

You didn't disagree with them though, all you did was shitpost. Probably any sane mod would not let a post of that level of quality slide...
/r/AntiFeminists22/06/21 04:15 AM
-3

What did you expect with that comment? You purposefully said something to insult them... Did you expect them to say "oh nice zingggg" and you'd do a sick dab? Come on mate.
/r/AntiFeminists22/06/21 03:55 AM
2

Different people process things differently, hope you're doing ok mate, sorry that happened to you.
/r/AntiFeminists22/06/21 03:41 AM
3

You're reading in to it too much. Most men who have been sexually assaulted can't accept it for years either. It's traumatic, they don't want to accept that it happened.
/r/AntiFeminists22/06/21 03:41 AM
3

Had this same debate with a fellow feminist the other day. They were convinced that segregation and institutional sexism weren't discrimination. If a company spends 20x as much to hire one gender compared to the other so they can have 50/50 gender split, in their mind this is not only "not sexism", it's justice. I just can't understand this point of view at all.
/r/MensRights18/06/21 06:51 AM
6

I think that goes to show what a little bit of a different perspective can do for you. Most people have never really considered what life is like for men or the kinds of struggles that they face. You just have to touch on a few issues and usually then it clicks, they identify that they know this problem exists, and that it happened to someone they know. Suddenly they can see the issues are real.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/06/21 02:38 AM
1

The meme is either a complete misunderstanding, or deliberately misleading. I can't say which, but I would say probably the former - because anyone who was trying to lie on purpose would probably not have used such insane numbers. Like I said, from the start the numbers are absurd, and even the dev cleared up the mistakes there and explained their role in the project.
/r/AntiFeminists17/06/21 02:42 AM
1

AFAIK the project Dr Bouman lead involved dozens of libraries, which she did not write herself. The overall project was her job, and she designed the algorithm used. A lot of people contributed to the project. This is pretty normal in software design, usually you have a tech lead who designs the architecture and high level structure, but they don't necessarily put in the most LoC because that is done by those down the chain who implement the solution. Think of it like building a cool skyscraper.…
/r/AntiFeminists17/06/21 02:10 AM
3

It's definitely not easy to talk about my experiences, it seems like it would harm me more than it would help. Those who speak up are very brave IMO, I think for me the risk of being dismissed or having my feelings invalidated or becoming a target is just too much.
/r/MensRights16/06/21 08:54 AM
1

Yeah, well W7 probably had 1000 devs, and NT core had at least that many too. Conservative estimates put the Loc per dev at 20k. Who knows how many people have worked on Android... ​ As for the percents, not accurate at all. Like I said, most of those LoC (93%) are not code. Afaik Dr Bouman didn't contribute patches to that project at all, it was just one of many libs used, but she was an adviser for the project.
/r/AntiFeminists16/06/21 08:40 AM
10

SystemD is about 1 million LoC. These are crazy numbers we are talking about. Possible? Sure, anything's possible. But I seriously doubt it. ​ EDIT: Yup, gave it a google: https://twitter.com/thisgreyspirit/status/1116519313488470017 The actual code is only about 68k (which were not all written by Andrew), the rest are "model files" (here is the link to a model file for example: https://github.com/achael/eht-imaging/blob/main/models/avery_m87_1_eofn.txt ) Apparently Andrew didn't even write "the…
/r/AntiFeminists16/06/21 07:12 AM
6

This is not accurate. ​ 850,000 LoC? Bullshit. Anyone who has ever written any code in their life knows this is bullshit. The entire Lord of the Rings is about 50,000 lines. You're telling me this young looking guy wrote around 20x as much as LotR for a single project? There is absolutely no way that is true. I imagine someone looked at the repo and counted up LoC for generated code or something.
/r/AntiFeminists16/06/21 06:58 AM
8

Sorry to hear that mate :'(
/r/AntiFeminists16/06/21 05:33 AM
1

Maybe try crosspost this to r/domesticviolence and r/DomesticViolenceInUS as they will know a lot more about this topic and be a lot more likely to be able to help you. ​ Good luck, domestic violence is never a simple or easy thing to deal with. I believe there are less resources available to support male victims, and more stigma too, so that could cause extra complication.
/r/MensRights14/06/21 08:24 AM
57

These two are messed up. I'm surprised the woman isn't pressing more charges (although this is in Brazil). The idea of putting child support on every possible father when the father isn't know doesn't exactly sound right either.
/r/MensRights11/06/21 06:12 AM
-1

Have you tried finding some examples and posting them?
/r/MensRights11/06/21 04:55 AM
8

Although FDS is one of the more common subs posted, so it's not like misandry is never discussed.
/r/MensRights11/06/21 02:30 AM
1

Best to read the thread where people are calling this sub a hate sub then, yes?
/r/MensRights11/06/21 12:04 AM
2

I guess the question is, should that be taking place in a men's rights space?
/r/MensRights10/06/21 11:54 PM
2

Hm, well, I'm not sure. I feel like this just forces people to choose sides, and they are probably going to side with feminism. I feel like it may be more efficient to instead address every men's rights issue as being divorced completely from feminism. Focus on concrete issues, and fixing them. I mean, imagine if this sub literally never mentioned feminism and only talked about specific men's issues. When people point fingers and say "look they are a hate group", what would they have to point to…
/r/MensRights10/06/21 09:02 AM
14

Maybe it is, but if you live in a world where everything you do or think - how you sit, how you talk, what you wear, where you go, etc - is policed, it's easy to see things like this which could be satire, as being what someone actually believes.
/r/AntiFeminists10/06/21 08:23 AM
-1

I don't think you said anything particularly wrong, but I'm not sure how this exactly relates to what I posted. Feminism is problematic, ok, but how does this related to the way MRA is perceived?
/r/MensRights10/06/21 08:21 AM
-3

I'm not asking what about feminism you disagree with, I'm asking what is stopping you from working together with women's rights advocates or feminists. Are you saying that the barrier is that feminists refuse to work with you because they are only pretending to care about equality, or that you refuse to work with them because you see them as bigotted?
/r/MensRights10/06/21 08:08 AM
2

The focus of men's rights movements should be men's rights, but there are some people who are (often understandably) hurt and just want to lash out. Just saying "fuck feminism" doesn't help anyone.
/r/MensRights10/06/21 07:16 AM
11

I understand why it makes you mad. Anyone can post on that sub, posting there means that one person believes it is a hate subreddit, it's not an absolute fact. I do think however there are some valid points that we should address. I think that if we consistently listen to feedback, and act on it when it is appropriate, then people will find less and less justification for labelling this sub as a hate sub.
/r/MensRights10/06/21 05:22 AM
64

Are you talking about this thread? https://np.reddit.com/r/AgainstHateSubreddits/comments/nvzyos/rmensrights_calls_for_feminism_to_be_dismantled/ ​ What you said; "men wanting equal rights doesn't equal misogyny" is absolutely correct, but I think it may be more productive to look critically at what they are saying. One of the biggest problems people have with feminism is that it is unwilling to address problems within feminist communities. MRAs need to not be guilty of the same thing. ​ Some of…
/r/MensRights10/06/21 04:38 AM
1

That doesn't particularly answer my question of why there is "no such thing as toxic masculinity"... :/
/r/MensRights10/06/21 02:18 AM
1

I think this is getting off track. Remember I am trying to understand why you think there is "no such thing as toxic masculinity". Saying that "behaviors that are harmful will be bread out" or "the rich exercise and eat will" or questioning how not showing weakness may have helped cavemen don't particularly help the discussion as far as I can see. It seems from your post you are saying that feminists blame toxic masculinity on biology and that is what you are rejecting?
/r/MensRights10/06/21 01:30 AM
1

So trying to blame recent trends on biology is ludicrous. We have to look elsewhere for the cause. It's more likely to be a social problem to blame. Keep asking questions though, you almost got it. 👍 Yeah, I agree with you there. But I don't feel this proves that all traditionally masculine stereotypes are positive. "If a biological trait grew to be harmful the species would die out. Men are still here so there has to be a higher beneficial side to masculinity." - this isn't how evolution works …
/r/MensRights08/06/21 08:43 AM
8

Every national and empirical study shows equal rates? It is hard to believe that no biased study has been written on the topic.
/r/MensRights08/06/21 07:26 AM
3

Could you be more specific? You say that "There is no such thing as "toxic masculinity" only toxic behavior", then go on to justify this by saying "Core masculine traits in humans and in many animals has helped these species thrive thousands of years" which seems to be implying "masculinity that descended from biology is not toxic". Is that correct? You then go on to say "If you want to know where the recent trend of toxic behavior in BOTH men and women in America is from look no further than na…
/r/MensRights08/06/21 07:16 AM
3

There is no such thing as "toxic masculinity" only toxic behavior. This is what I'm wondering about. You support this by saying that masculinity comes from biology, and that toxicity actually comes from single mothers. From my perspective it seems like most of masculinity does not come from biology or single mothers (eg the example of wearing pants). So I'm not sure how to parse this argument.
/r/MensRights08/06/21 06:58 AM
1

Sorry mate, not really sure how your model works. Masculinity is "things we attribute to men" Some parts of masculinity come from biology and are not toxic Some parts of masculinity come from single mothers and are toxic Is that about it? What about things like "men wear pants"?
/r/MensRights08/06/21 06:44 AM
2

Are you saying then that all gender disparity is because of biology?
/r/MensRights08/06/21 06:27 AM
4

There is no such thing as "toxic masculinity" only toxic behavior. So what do you call things like the idea that men should defend women/their home/their country? Just behaviors that people have and just happen to disproportionately affect men? I'm not exactly sure what the practical utility of this statement is.
/r/MensRights08/06/21 05:59 AM
2

I suspect insurance companies are more driven by greed than hate. Insurance is a competitive industry where consumers have no loyalty (as they shouldn't), if they could lower men's premiums they would to undercut competition. You don't have to go with an insurer that endorses discrimination, there are insurers that will look at your personal data and offer a quote.
/r/MensRights07/06/21 07:21 AM
1

There's an old quote: "ironic shitposting is still shitposting". Basically I think the same applies to racism. There's plenty of other jokes to make, this one doesn't need to be in circulation still.
/r/MensRights06/06/21 11:55 PM
176

Clearly 99.99% of deaths being male indicate sexism. This is an obvious case of the objectification of men. I don't necessarily read the times article as being sexist though. If anyone hears "58,000 men and 8 women" they will probably wonder "why 8 women?". There's an old anti-semitic joke based on this premise, which I won't repeat... Were there any particular parts of the article you felt were sexist? I think the conclusion could be read as overstating the achievements of nurses, but it's also…
/r/MensRights04/06/21 08:12 AM
3

There's many reasons why someone might see a SW, there's no reason to speculate. The person in the video is clearly wrong for demonizing both SW and those who visit them.
/r/AntiFeminists04/06/21 03:28 AM
0

Hitting someone in retaliation is not defending yourself: "if she wants to catch my hands, to put hers on me first." Those are very different things legally, please learn your rights. "They hit me first" is not a valid argument legally speaking.
/r/MensRights04/06/21 03:11 AM
-1

Setting boundaries and lamp-shading abuse is the first step. After that the response depends on the situation, including looking for societal support, police, getting support from friends, etc. It's hard to be in abusive relationships, I don't think hitting your ex would have solved the problem. I'm glad you were able to out of the situation eventually but I wish it could have been sooner. We can definitely do better at having social structures to support men in these situations and educating pe…
/r/MensRights04/06/21 01:56 AM
-3

Yep, reciprocating domestic violence just makes 2 perpetrators and 2 victims. An alternate way of standing up for yourself is informing them you will not tolerate domestic violence and an alternate way to defend yourself is by disengaging from the situation. Ideally I think this is the right situation, and pragmatically too. If you are a man and a woman hits you so you hit her back, you are likely to be in serious trouble. I don't think it's a good line of thought at all.
/r/MensRights04/06/21 12:43 AM
-2

Wrong answer. Domestic violence isn't bad because there's a threat of reciprocation, domestic violence is bad because it's a shit thing to do. Instead of threatening your partner, make it clear that domestic violence is unacceptable.
/r/MensRights03/06/21 11:59 PM
10

It's unrealistic to expect even the most dedicate activist to speak up at every injustice they see. They are posting about the issue in a men's group, I think that's a good thing.
/r/MensRights03/06/21 11:57 PM
1

Well like I said, if we focused on posting the evidence rather than memes then the dismissal would be a lot harder.
/r/AntiFeminists03/06/21 08:57 AM
8

Yeah, these arguments seem incongruent. I think this is a topic that needs a lot more discussion and a lot more nuance.
/r/AntiFeminists03/06/21 04:25 AM
1

Like I said, it doesn't matter how individual doctors or doctors as a group feel. By definition it's sexist. Whether or not the doctors feel offended doesn't actually matter to the discussion. If I were to steal candy from babies, it doesn't actually matter if the baby cries or not. It's still stealing. Do you see what I mean? The question of whether sexual discrimination is sexist or not is a very different question of whether doctors are offended by sexism directed towards them. ​ BTW here is …
/r/MensRights03/06/21 03:59 AM
17

Quite a bizarre clip. The idea that sex is consent to having a child even if you are using birth control is not intuitive to me. I don't think that we should be taking consent to sex as implied consent to having a child. That is just plain wrong to me. This feels like entitlement, like if you go out to dinner on a date with someone that is implicit consent to have sex and if you didn't want to have sex you should have said something before the date started. It seems to me that the vast majority …
/r/AntiFeminists03/06/21 03:14 AM
2

It's bizarre that we have such hyper awareness about protecting girls but when it comes to boys sexual assault is so normalized that we don't even think about it.
/r/AntiFeminists03/06/21 01:47 AM
4

I think it's more than that, women are seen as fully actualized humans - capable of feelings, wants, needs, desires, deserving of protecting and care. Men are just kind of there. Once they are pushed through the school system they exist to financially support women. That's about all the consideration given to them. It's not that boys are second class citizens, it's that they aren't even really human. They are completely objectified, closer to robots.
/r/AntiFeminists03/06/21 01:44 AM
4

It's funny to look back at school, at first you find out there's a teacher who is notorious for hating boys and treating girls like angels. Then you find out there's a few more in your school. Then you find out there's a handful at every school. At some point you are thinking "so half of all teachers just straight up hate boys? That's pretty strange" but it never goes any further. As a kid you just think "that's life". You really have to just accept it and do your best to survive. It's a difficu…
/r/AntiFeminists03/06/21 01:37 AM
1

I don't think it's productive to say "oh but what if they don't care about being discriminated against?" I think it's fairly well established that discrimination is bad, sexism is bad, racism is bad, queerphobia is bad, etc. Whether or not a particular group of people or a specific person is personally upset about being discriminated against does not matter at all. "Preference is not discrimination" doesn't hold up in any practical way. Since it appears you identify as a woman (correct me if I'm…
/r/MensRights03/06/21 01:07 AM
1

Like I said, I think it's more productive to talk about specific actual examples rather than just post low effort memes. I'm sure somewhere this post will be linked and a misandrist will say "look at this strawman, this literally never happened!" This kind of thing is only divisive and doesn't help anyone.
/r/AntiFeminists03/06/21 12:34 AM
7

This is simply not true, most men intensely fear losing their rights, and are willing to fight to keep them. It frustrates that women feel they have the authority to speak for a man, let alone for all men. I think this post is just another case of making a vast generalization just to support a sexist idea. To be more precise, this is an extension of the objectification of men - the specific man that OP spoke to is denied their individuality, and men as a whole are treated as fungible; "oh one ma…
/r/MensRights02/06/21 11:51 PM
-16

I downvote posts like this. It's way more productive to link an example of the behavior rather than just post a meme about it. This kind of thing is too easy to make into a circle jerk of "wow it sucks here's a strawman".
/r/AntiFeminists02/06/21 08:20 AM
1

Well yeah, obviously you shouldn't say "I prefer female doctors because I'm sexist", that's not going to help anyone. It's definitely not ideal to be bringing prejudice into a doctor's office, but if that's the only way you can seek help I think doctors are trained to offer the best help then can regardless of the patient's attitudes. It is still something to introspect on or seek therapy for as even though doctors may be nice enough to accommodate you, sexism isn't really acceptable in modern s…
/r/MensRights02/06/21 07:33 AM
1

Oh I see, that's surprising.
/r/MensRights02/06/21 07:28 AM
4

I'm not seeing that post as being gender related tbh. Just a lot of confused people and an OP who is extremely defensive and scared. Yes there are some problematic stereotypes around "abusers" and "abuse survivors", particularly gendered stereotypes, but I'm not seeing the replies as overly focusing on them. That said, maybe the comments changed since you posted this link 3 hours ago.
/r/MensRights02/06/21 05:46 AM
1

Ok, good to see we are on the same page. I just don't think it's nice to say someone is stupid because they are offended by sexism. I mean yeah, obviously sometimes it is a case of fragility where hyperawareness of gender causes people to be disproportionately offended by a minor occurrence of sexism. But in this case we are talking about a highly trained medical professional who has spend a decade training being told "I don't want you to be my doctor because I don't like the way you present you…
/r/MensRights02/06/21 03:00 AM
0

It's stupid to be offended by sexism? ://///// Out of interest, are you generally in favor of men's/women's/lgbt rights? Do you generally think that sexism/racism/queerphobia is bad?
/r/MensRights02/06/21 12:22 AM
1

I suspect the armed forces probably have more egalitarian views on uniforms no? Or do women get to choose to wear skirts in the army?
/r/MensRights02/06/21 12:07 AM
6

Men have the right to choose to be feminine if they want to be. We shouldn't oppose men's right to choose just because masculinity is discouraged. If men's rights align with feminist ideals, then good, we need all the help we can get in this fight.
/r/MensRights02/06/21 12:07 AM
1

In an ideal world, yes, but the choice isn't between two schools that are identical except one has an archaic uniform policy.
/r/MensRights02/06/21 12:05 AM
2

The article doesn't mention support from non-male teachers. That's a bit disappointing. The problem isn't gendered, and so the solution needs to be non-gendered too. Huge kudos to all the educators and kids who are standing together against gender discrimination!!
/r/MensRights02/06/21 12:04 AM
9

Great example of why diverse opinions are needed when discussing gendered topics! A lot of men would identify with this, wondering what's wrong with them for not orgasming or for not bringing their partner to orgasm. Some women feel like this, some men feel like this, some non-binary people feel like this, some people of all genders blame their partner instead. We need broader perspective than just 1 person yelling "my experience is the only experience"! I think a lot of people would be surprise…
/r/AntiFeminists02/06/21 12:01 AM
1

as i said, the difference is is that those positions are not intimate like a caregiver would be. my body is mine- and i decide who sees it. You are saying that sexism/racism/homophobia is acceptable in this situation because it's intimate. That's an ok thing to argue, but just because we accept it in that situation doesn't mean it isn't discrimination. ​ what about muslim women who only have female doctors due to their religion? are they sexist? Yes, absolutely. And tbh you'd find a lot of relig…
/r/MensRights01/06/21 08:41 AM
1

I think you are skipping a step there. You keep saying it's not discrimination because it's your preference and it's what you are comfortable, but would you accept the same argument from someone else? "I don't buy bread from black bakers, my preference is white bakers" "I don't like having a woman as a boss, I'm more comfortable with male bosses" "I don't like having a queer hairdressers, I like straight hairdressers" All of these are discrimination. Yes, for them it's their preference and what …
/r/MensRights01/06/21 05:47 AM
7

My partner once made this joke to someone in China, they had never heard this joke before and found it hilarious. So nice to see a bot introducing non-native speakers to the wonder of dad puns.
/r/AntiFeminists01/06/21 04:20 AM
-4

The sex of the doctor has nothing to do with your genitals, and even if the doctor has the same sex AND the same gender as you, they might not have the same genitals. Even if trauma is the reason for your sexism, it's still sexism and it's something you should work on with a therapist. What you said absolutely is sexist unfortunately. I hope you can try to see why discrimination based on sex is by definition sexist.
/r/MensRights01/06/21 04:01 AM
-1

If someone said "I'm not racist but I prefer to have a white doctor rather than a black doctor, it comes down to what makes me feel most comfortable" would you question that? I think there's definitely something that you need to unpack. Some kind of internalized misandry or misogyny. It's a bit of a red flag to preface something with "I'm not sexist", that's a good indication that you are about to say something sexist...
/r/MensRights01/06/21 02:20 AM
-1

I definitely think we need to acknowledge that the root of those concerns is sexism and isn't something we should endorse.
/r/MensRights31/05/21 11:52 PM
2

Going to need a little more context as to why this is relevant mate.
/r/MensRights31/05/21 11:51 PM
-1

I don't think acting like an asshole will make other people sympathetic to your views nor will it make them think someone else is an asshole. All it does is give misandrists ammunition to say "look, these guys are just assholes!" and dismiss all our progress.
/r/MensRights31/05/21 07:49 AM
2

I don't think it's a good idea to indulge sexist attitudes. If someone says "oh I don't want a black caregiver" then tell them "tough shit racist", it's not that hard.
/r/MensRights31/05/21 07:41 AM
9

Yep, dictionaries just catalogue language. Ideally they are apolitical. That said, we shouldn't push sexist language like "femsplaining". Obviously the term "mansplaining" is sexist and problematic, we shouldn't be doing the same.
/r/MensRights31/05/21 07:11 AM
10

I never understood the reluctance of some women to talk about systemic oppression of men. The author starts with: "let's get one thing straight: men, as a group, do not face systematic oppression because of their gender." then goes on to say "On a societal level, it means that resources are not as readily available for men who face these challenges, because patriarchal ideas tell our courts, our governments and our charitable organizations that men don't ever need that kind of help." This is an …
/r/MensRights31/05/21 03:27 AM
2

What date are you counting for male right to vote?
/r/AntiFeminists15/05/21 04:51 AM
3

To be honest I think the closets are probably the chans.
/r/AntiFeminists15/05/21 12:06 AM
23

Unfortunately r/feminism mods are extremely aggressive because they are extremely afraid of trolls and arguments getting out of hand. Banning everyone that disagrees is an effective way to keep a community from infighting after all. I would definitely not recommend anyone goes there to try stir them up, you will be banned. That isn't a sub where you can debate.
/r/AntiFeminists14/05/21 08:11 AM
4

Hey mate, sorry to hear about your and your family's struggles. Hope you can understand that FDS doesn't represent normal people, it's a hate sub with a particular type of vitriol. They are not normal, we should not accept their behavior as normal. Hate will never win, you're right. Thanks for the post, I'm sure a lot of people are feeling the same way as you are. You're not alone.
/r/MensRights12/05/21 07:04 AM
7

I think it's part of a broader idea that men exist to work.
/r/AntiFeminists10/05/21 01:48 AM
1

Yup yup, exactly!
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/05/21 01:38 AM
2

Well, you can't have gender roles/expression/identity without gender right? Glad you see what I mean tho
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/05/21 01:21 AM
1

I think of it like time, time itself is 100%, but the ways we measure it and the ways we observe it are all socially constructed to be able to understand it. What if we had one word specifically talking about the natural phenomenon of "time", and another word referring specifically to the way we measure, observe, and interact with "time"? ​ I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to exist.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/05/21 12:36 AM
4

If a job requires strength, then candidates need to be selected based on strength or trained 🤷‍♀️ Don't know why this is a hard concept to grasp, just get someone who can do the job.
/r/AntiFeminists06/05/21 12:30 AM
1

Hm, gender (in feminist framework, and every day English as of some point after the mid 20th century) is by definition a social construct. As contrast to "sex" which is biological. Eg "men wear pants" - gender, "men have a penis" - sex. Are you saying that we shouldn't understate cultural values when talking about gender? I feel that's societal. Or perhaps you are saying that sex influences gender? In which case I'd say yup, but it does so through the construction of social norms.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/05/21 12:25 AM
2

I agree with your sentiment but let's not go around calling people idiotic extremists :/
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/05/21 12:20 AM
0

I have no idea how you got all of that out from that one comment. Just trying to establish what exactly the user is disagreeing with, that's all. In these kinds of discussions I always find it's a good idea to establish where exactly the disagreement is, especially when someone makes a vague statement. ​ FWIW the user never responded, but one user responded saying that they believe women simply do not want power, and another that they didn't understand feminist terms.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/05/21 12:04 AM
0

I've actually addressed these concerns elsewhere in this thread, I'd recommend you go take a look. ​ a tl;dr for you: Men occupy more positions of power than women, there's no need to be afraid of the term patriarchy because you are worried someone will use it to have multiple meanings, instead keep an eye out for when someone ACTUALLY DOES that and then address the problem. The lack of clarity you perceive is lack of understanding on the topic, perhaps fueled by over-analyzing and prejudice. Pe…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/05/21 12:00 AM
0

Ah, I see. So the rhetorical trick you're using here is to claim our society is a "patriarchy" because the majority of senators in the society are male, and therefore any social norms that originate from that society, regardless of how they came about or who they originated from, are "patriarchal norms". It's not a rhetorical trick, that's what the patriarchy is by definition. There is no suggestion that the senators themselves engineered patriarchal norms, but they are norms that exist within t…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/05/21 11:55 PM
1

Glad we are in agreement.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/05/21 11:51 PM
1

If society isn't dictating that "men sleep on the couch during fights", what do you attribute it to? Biology? Pure coincidence?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/05/21 01:59 AM
0

I disagree, you can find very similar definitions of the patriarchy wherever you look. Oxford dictionary: " a system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it. " Wiki: " Patriarchy is a social system in which men hold primary power and predominate in roles of political leadership, moral authority, social privilege and control of property " Geek Feminism: " Patriarchy is a term used in feminism to describe the system of gender-based hierarchy in s…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/05/21 01:56 AM
-1

Yes, US senators and CEOs are examples of the majority of power being held by men.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/05/21 01:51 AM
-1

The patriarchy and gender roles are not the same thing. Correct. ​ At best what feminists call the patriarchy is a product of gender roles that women are just as guilty of enforcing as men. Correct again. And that often benefit women over men on average in society. I don't see a way you could measure that, I don't think that's possible to prove nor that it would be useful to even try. ​ So it seems we agree that the patriarchy is real, I'm not sure what the rest of your post is about basically :…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/05/21 01:49 AM
-18

The patriarchy is a myth? 75% of US senators are male, 90% of CEOs are male. These are easily verifiable facts, you can check them right now. The society that created this situation IS the patriarchy. We are talking about the same thing.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/05/21 08:43 AM
7

Humans are also more than not just animals, we have the power to decide if something is harmful or not. Animals don't think twice about being sexist or racist, but humans can and should. I think we should aspire to being a little more than merely dogs pissing around their territory.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/05/21 08:39 AM
6

Maybe a little more thought is needed on this topic, why is it that these blokes are looking for space away from their spouses to enjoy their interests? Clearly there are some problematic dynamics at play.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/05/21 08:26 AM
-6

I'm not clear what you are saying. You don't believe gender exists? You don't believe gender roles are the product of society? You don't believe that women are members of society? Honestly there's a lot to unpack and I'm not sure where you are going with this or what your point is.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/05/21 06:43 AM
11

I think you have misunderstood why some men have man caves. It's not so they can exclude their wives, it's because they need a place for their hobbies and interests. For example if a man is interested in having a home gym or playing video games or doing woodworking, this may not fit into the way that the woman has designed the house, and so in order to pursue their own hobbies and interests they need to make space for that. The problem isn't that they want to make a man cave to exclude their wiv…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/05/21 06:00 AM
1

You can't rationalize irrational hate.
/r/MensRights04/05/21 05:17 AM
6

Yeah, she has said some bad and problematic things in the past (eg body shaming), but this is definitely a good thing. It's rare that anyone in the mainstream acknowledge that male victims even exist.
/r/MensRights04/05/21 05:16 AM
10

The belief that if someone is raped then their sexual orientation will change to accommodate the abuser.
/r/AntiFeminists04/05/21 02:52 AM
1

I think this is part of archaic patriarchal standards that the house is the woman's domain, and the workplace is the man's domain. Clearly this is sexist and needs to stop. This is more far reaching than just kicking the male partner out, I think this dynamic is extremely pervasive. For example the woman in the relationship is often given control to furnish and design the house as they want, to solely make decisions for the household, and dictate what their partners can or can't do. This is some…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/05/21 02:40 AM
3

That's true, but this post is about men. We don't need to turn this into a men vs women or debate which gender has it worse. Let's just focus on the post, ok?
/r/MensRights03/05/21 08:51 AM
2

It is definitely sexist that common courtesy is only offered to women. Whether or not that is because society views women as less capable is a bit questionable to me. I think practically every example of sexual disparity can be framed either way, so we should be considering who is harmed more. In this case the woman has the door opened for them, while man does free labor for the woman. It seems to me this situation disadvantages men more than it disadvantages women, so it's a bit callous to fram…
/r/AntiFeminists03/05/21 01:08 AM
1

That's an analogy for how the term patriarchy is used in practice. Correct. I was simply replying to your definition of the term, which follows the well-known lines of the motte-and-bailey tactic often employed by feminists. I'm not sure of your intentions, so I'm hedging my bets, as it were. It sure seems to me like you were making an accusation, but I guess now you have clarified that you didn't mean to accuse me and were just making a general statement so I can accept that. I do not think tha…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/04/21 05:35 AM
1

The person who replied to my OP: Your ideaology is just the Jewish conspiracy applied to men. You replying to me replying to them: Do not be deceived by the typical feminist motte-and-bailey tactic. (Or don't try to deceive us with it, if that's your intent.)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/04/21 05:15 AM
9

I think this NEEDS to be considered in context of Who's Afraid of Peer Review? which happened a few years earlier, SCIgen which had been doing this for a decade, and more broadly the Replication Crisis which had been ongoing for 10 or so years. This is a serious problem with academic and the journal system, not just with identity politics focused journals.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/04/21 04:46 AM
1

Looking at the original source, I think you've twisted things a little. There are quite a few serious suggestions on the sexy females thread, and only 1 commenter saying the thread is a problem. The number of votes is different, but remember even if you post the same thread twice one time it may do well, the other time it may flop.
/r/MensRights17/04/21 04:34 AM
2

My definition is written in the oxford dictionary, wiki, and even geek fem. I definitely do not condone using it as a pejorative and am not turning a blind eye to these incorrect and problematic uses. I don't think it's fair to accuse me of Jewish conspiracy against men or of motte-and-bailey just because some other feminist may have done that.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/04/21 02:31 AM
2

Can you find one example of me using a bait and switch with the word patriarchy? Please feel free to browse my entire post history if you want. ​ I think you've mad a hasty generalization on that one.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/04/21 01:34 AM
2

Sorry, I can't follow your post, it's a bit confusing for me.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/04/21 01:32 AM
2

The meanings of most words are not intuitive, that's why we have dictionaries. Oxford dictionary, wiki, and geek fem all agree on this definition (although the geek fem definition is the vaguest of the 3 IMO). I understand some people use the patriarchy to mean something else, but it's easy enough to tell them they are wrong and point to anywhere that defines what the patriarchy is. I think you'd have serious problems trying to find any source that backs up this definition: ""Patriarchy", the th…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/04/21 12:53 AM
3

Just wanted to remind everyone that r/Intactivism/ exists, more help is always welcome in the fight against mutilation of babies.
/r/MensRights16/04/21 08:00 AM
1

Sorry, I'm very confused. As discussed, your initial statement is not factually accurate. As discussed, your justification is fallacious. I am not sure how you jumped from there to saying I am morally corrupt.
/r/AntiFeminists16/04/21 06:11 AM
1

Correct. In this case "feminists who do not believe in 'kill all men'" are not complicit in aiding "feminists who believe in 'kill all men'", so to lump them all together is a fallacy.
/r/AntiFeminists16/04/21 05:45 AM
0

Yes, it is a fallacy.
/r/AntiFeminists16/04/21 05:42 AM
0

It's not no true Scotsman, try read the wiki page: No True Scotsman: "those who march under that banner are not real feminists" What that user actually said: "not ALL feminists march under that banner" Moreover, what does that have to do with you using the guilt by association fallacy?
/r/AntiFeminists16/04/21 05:21 AM
0

You know that is literally the name of a logical fallacy right? You are saying that not only is your quote not factually correct, but your justification for it is a fallacy?
/r/AntiFeminists16/04/21 05:11 AM
0

Not all feminists are march under the banner "kill all men" either... I'm confused why you think these are two different things.
/r/AntiFeminists16/04/21 05:06 AM
0

I don't think it's a technicality. The two statements are very different and one user has already pointed out how factually incorrect (and hateful) the former is. It's the difference between "all men are murderers" and "there are murderers who are men" - it's not at all the same thing, and I hope you'd take offense at the former.
/r/AntiFeminists16/04/21 04:56 AM
13

Let's rewind back to before feminism. Society is fairly shitty for everyone. Gender roles still exist, I won't go over them in their entirety but the important parts are "women need protecting, men are stoic". Then we have the dawn of feminism, society begins to address problems that are hurting women. The female gender role helps with this greatly since society is already primed to listen to women and take their problems seriously - this sentiment only intensifies with the years. At the same ti…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/04/21 04:54 AM
-3

There we go! Now we have reached a factual statement. I suggest you edit your original post to reflect this!
/r/AntiFeminists16/04/21 04:32 AM
38

I used to watch a lot of Judge Judy. She is an awesome, amazing person.
/r/MensRights16/04/21 04:31 AM
34

I know reddit admins have a clear stance in being explicitly OK with sexism and racism, but still it blows my mind every time I see the horrific posts that come out of that sub - a default sub!
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/04/21 04:30 AM
-3

They all March under the banner of feminism, but keep trying. Agreed. But that's not what you said originally: All feminists don’t March under a banner that reads “kill all men”
/r/AntiFeminists16/04/21 04:21 AM
-2

No True Scotsman: "those who march under that banner are not real feminists" What that user actually said: "not ALL feminists march under that banner" ​ Ironically, your initial post is the converse of not true scotsman, because you claim that all real feminists march under that banner.
/r/AntiFeminists16/04/21 03:49 AM
3

Of course we realize this, however it's not the mild majority who are causing actual real harm to men on a daily basis. There's a common metaphor about poisoned chocolates: 10 smarties, 1 is poisoned. Most people say "just avoid them all!" - good advice for smarties, but for people that's incredibly sexist, racist, or otherwise harmful. What this subreddit does is talk about ONLY those poisoned smarties, zero in and critique them. I think that's a great thing. ​ The second part is that mild femi…
/r/AntiFeminists16/04/21 03:45 AM
1

The point that some people miss is that often male products are more expensive. It really depends on which product you look at. I actually do what the poster suggests and make the choice product by product haha.
/r/AntiFeminists16/04/21 02:18 AM
2

I know of the title, I'm just wondering if they ever said the phrase as it is popularized.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/04/21 08:01 AM
-2

Did Gearhart ever actually say/write the phrase? I wonder if you managed to find a source saying so in your sleuthing? ​ I'm not so interested in trying debate whether the first open lesbian to obtain a tenure-track faculty position or the first women's bookstore in NYC had more influence in pop culture 50 years later :P
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/04/21 07:30 AM
4

No, sorry, I should have clarified, I am asking for a source saying that is the origin of the phrase. ​ I know that Labyris Books claims to have coined the phrase 4 years before Gearhart: https://www.nyclgbtsites.org/site/labyris/#:~:text=Labyris%2C%20where%20the%20%E2%80%9CThe%20Future,radical%20lesbian%20feminist%20gathering%20space. And you'll also notice that Gearhart's article says a similar phrase but never actually says "the future is female". So it seems like someone thought of the idea …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/04/21 06:36 AM
0

Is this really the origin of the saying? Do you have a source?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/04/21 05:26 AM
2

I can understand that you see the hypocrisy, but it's not the behavior or actions that are the reason for defense, it's a kneejerk defense of feminism as a whole.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/04/21 04:55 AM
9

The admins replied about this sub and other similar subs: https://imgur.com/a/pRpSAYc
/r/MensRights15/04/21 03:33 AM
21

and here's the link for anyone wondering: https://imgur.com/a/pRpSAYc
/r/MensRights15/04/21 03:32 AM
287

https://imgur.com/a/pRpSAYc
/r/MensRights15/04/21 03:32 AM
2

Thanks for writing this all up, it was an interesting read. Now I'd love to see the sources for some of this!! It definitely goes against what we usually hear on the topic!!
/r/MensRights15/04/21 02:20 AM
1

I agree, but the user you replied to initially was clarifying that the kid was not killed as you initially said: he didn't have to kill the kid
/r/AntiFeminists15/04/21 01:08 AM
3

I'm not sure about that but thanks 😅 It's a small community huh.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/04/21 12:21 AM
6

It sounds like you also agree that hate has no place, but are upset at the same things I am - hateful people being sheltered by the left.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/04/21 12:18 AM
3

Thanks, we need it.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/04/21 12:16 AM
2

You'd be right if that were what "the patriarchy" meant. The patriarchy just means that in positions of power men are over represented. Society as a whole is responsible for gender roles.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/04/21 12:16 AM
12

Maths actually has a lot of discretionary marks. It's not always cut and dry. Same with other STEM fields. Also remember universities use marking guides, so the amount of bias is limited. Highschools and below likely have the majority of the problem of teachers giving whatever marks they want (these also may be moderated depending on where you live, although that said maybe moderators are biased). I would also guess that most students (regardless of gender) don't get all answers completely corre…
/r/MensRights14/04/21 05:14 AM
11

women in stem crisis is fabricated Would you (or someone) mind pulling a few points from that video as it's an hour long. The second video too for that matter. Sorry, can't watch videos but I'm interested in the content.
/r/MensRights14/04/21 05:11 AM
26

As feminists we need to oust feminists who are hateful and bigoted. I know a lot of feminists have a problem with this since it is the direct rejection of a woman, but it needs to be done. Hate has no place on the left. I stand in solidarity with those who have been directly harmed by this hateful rhetoric.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/04/21 03:16 AM
5

Teacher, 47, 'was beaten to death by her cage fighter boyfriend after he discovered her affair with 15-year-old boy and brutally attacked them both in her home'
/r/AntiFeminists14/04/21 02:43 AM
22

You are not responsible for your gender's actions, you do not control them or speak for them, you do not have to apologize for someone else just because they happen to be the same gender as you.
/r/AntiFeminists14/04/21 02:37 AM
3

Unfortunately the foundation of the entire sex industry is exploitation. It's extremely problematic. There are bigger question than "how much will a man pay for their sexual needs" which we should be asking.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/04/21 02:06 AM
0

I think the sentiment is ok, but this kind of thing fosters adversarial behavior. It's a shame that so many people feel like this is the only way they can have space.
/r/MensRights10/04/21 11:42 PM
7

Depends. If you claim that feminism tries to equally deal with men's and women's issues, you cannot take issue with the highlighting of men's issues. Maybe you could say that there's undue weight, but either you cover men's issues or you don't. From a feminist perspective feminism IS about men's and women's issues. However in the feminist framework men's issues are simply an impossibility. They are something that could happen in an alternate universe, not something that could happen in our socie…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/04/21 12:17 AM
5

I think it's the same problem as feminism, a large number of people are here to vent and support those who are venting. That can definitely be a turn off if you are a woman and you come here and see a lot of people saying women suck. Obviously there's more to it than that and more problems with feminism than that, but we definitely need to make sure that venting isn't being used as an excuse to say problematic things.
/r/MensRights07/04/21 03:26 AM
0

I would suggest the same to you, get some sleep and come back tomorrow when you are in a better mood. Hopefully then you can see the problems with what you are saying and better express your argument - or maybe even see that you are just arguing on reflex and there's no need to be defensive. Have a good one.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/04/21 06:06 AM
0

So what, the argument here is basically "you're wrong"? Ok dude. Come on mate, your argument is "I think most people X". How can I argue with that? Clearly I don't agree, what more is there to say? You can think the sky is green and the grass is blue if you want. ​ You don't understand how wikipedia works, do you? Do your own research into 'toxic masculinity' then if the referenced links don't satisfy you. You've entered into a discussion on 'toxic masculinity' without actually knowing its conve…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/04/21 05:50 AM
1

Yup, I think the moral righteousness is likely a lot stronger with some groups than others 🙄
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/04/21 05:31 AM
1

Well, I'm fairly sure you will never have a productive discussion with feminists if you challenge their terminology, but glad you at least have the confidence that you don't need to.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/04/21 05:14 AM
3

Or more specifically, biological sex which is most often identified at birth.
/r/MensRights06/04/21 05:03 AM
1

I imagine if you tried to do that the discussion will immediately switch to "why are you saying that instead of just calling it toxic masculinity?"
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/04/21 05:02 AM
0

Its not so much of a problem so long as you know that its only referring to a subset of western masculinity; not everyone who uses the term realizes this, in fact I'm willing to bet that most don't. You sure sound like a gambling man. Read the article, mate. It clearly specifies aspects of masculinity which are and are not considered toxic. What, were you looking for a literal list? C'mon mate. Well, that's what you were advertising. ​ Many men, including myself, would consider devotion to work …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/04/21 04:52 AM
1

Doesn't work out for me either. You will never convince a feminist that toxic masculinity is sexist because within the feminist framework it isn't. That's why I don't think it's productive to react to the superficial baggage of the term, and instead accept it and move on.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/04/21 04:22 AM
1

They are referring to a subset of western masculinity, as manifested in men; The term does not to convey this meaning. You don't have to keep saying "western toxic masculinity" because the context of the discussion is the west. Is not knowing what society you are talking about truly a problem you have faced with this term? I am finding it very hard to imagine that being the case. Could you provide a real life example that you have encountered? ​ False. There is a consensus among Feminists and ac…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/04/21 03:52 AM
1

Idk why you find it so hard to have a straight conversation mate. Why always deflect and strawman? ​ Have you ever tried to tell a feminist that "toxic masculinity is sexist"? Did that honestly work out for you?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/04/21 03:21 AM
0

Treating westernized masculinity as though its the ubiquitous standard serves to downplay the influence western culture has had in shaping our masculine ideal. Sure, it would do if anyone was doing that. I'm certainly not. When discussing western masculinity clearly you are discussing that within the confines of western culture right? It's crazy to think anything else. ​ 'Toxic masculinity', on the other hand, is classifying specific masculine norms as being objectively toxic. Where? Where are y…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/04/21 03:08 AM
1

Please go back and read my posts, I said there are a lot of problems with inventing a term like that. Clearly "toxic blackness" and "toxic masculinity" are not constructed the same. "Masculinity" is far more abstract than "black". They are in no way the same. I know that you know this already so I don't think there's any point in arguing further.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/04/21 01:06 AM
0

However, the conventional term 'toxic masculinity' only refers to an extremely narrow subset of Western masculinity, and is only applied to males and male socialization. So, the term itself is too vague and does not denote the particularities it refers to. This is kind of spurious isn't it? It's ok for western philosophy references western society without putting the term "western" in front of things. I mean, even in every day life we might say "breakfast food" and know that we are talking about…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/04/21 12:54 AM
1

You literally refused to explain it under the guise of it being "self-evident" -- you said it was so obvious that you didn't have to explain it, and that I might be dumb by implication. I even quoted you saying this so you can go back up and see that pretty easily. No I didn't, I gave an explanation and then said "even if you it wasn't self evident". Please go re-read what I said and let me know if there's any issues. ​ I didn't just say that capitalism is at fault. I explained why and how. And …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/04/21 12:46 AM
-1

It's not using the same terms or even terms with a similar context. You deliberately made a strawman so you didn't have to discuss the issue. That's extremely dishonest and shows you have little faith in your argument.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/04/21 12:14 AM
0

Have you ever tried to tell a feminist that "toxic masculinity is sexist"? Did that honestly work out for you?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/04/21 12:13 AM
1

I said this elsewhere, but the whole concept of feminism is built on combating toxic femininity. However the term was invented 100+ years after feminism's inception. So it's a rarely used term because it's redundant if you are already talking about feminism. We need it to talk about male rights because we need to establish that it's an issue at all.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/04/21 12:07 AM
-2

I think you constructed that fake definition and fake term specifically to cause offense, there's a lot of problems with it which don't exist with "toxic masculinity". I think if the term was better constructed it would be useful.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/04/21 08:47 AM
-1

Unfortunately it's not like people change their mind when they learn the definition, instead they want to argue that it's sexist despite not having a sexist definition because it has "masculinity" in the name. Unless we agree to never explicitly talk about men, we have to use some kind of gendered word eventually.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/04/21 08:28 AM
0

I think we agree that society has some problems with the way it treats men, right? We are agreed that the concept exists. The term "toxic masculinity" comes from "toxic" referring to harmful, and "masculinity" referring to the male gender role, hence "harmful aspects of the male gender role". I don't think there's anything problematic about this term. But, you are free to explain why you think it is if you want to.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/04/21 08:13 AM
-3

Then you get the same problem, uninformed people have a kneejerk reaction and decide that "toxic gendered expectations" is sexist and they don't care to learn the definition or anything about it, they just want to rage.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/04/21 06:45 AM
0

The problem is that the term toxic masculinity isn't misandrist, so feminists will treat you as if you are uninformed. Imagine if someone says "toxic masculinity forces men to take dangerous jobs and accept lesser health and safety precautions" and someone replies "that's misandrist!" It just seems silly and doesn't help anyone. It's difficult to imagine that talking about how society hurts men is sexist towards men.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/04/21 06:44 AM
1

Well, they are free to disagree. I have never found any value in challenging these feminist terms, it just leads people to think you are ignorant. Instead, accept the definitions and understand how men's rights fits into that.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/04/21 03:50 AM
-2

I disagree, we empower hostile feminists by allowing them to redefine words. I think we can all agree on "[aspects of the male gender role which are harmful] created by [our society] is harming men." The part we disagree on is whether "toxic masculinity" means "aspects of the male gender role which are harmful" or "unspecified expletive directed at a man", and whether "the patriarchy" means "our society" or "men are bad". I don't see any value in the later. Instead when a feminist says "toxic ma…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/04/21 02:45 AM
-2

Like I said, some people use it as a pejorative even if that's inappropriate. I don't think we should let them win and redefine the word.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/04/21 02:39 AM
1

All statistics is an "estimate", that's why so much of the field is based on trying to identify and compensate for biases. And please don't worry about ad hominem, just read the study and try to identify any problems.
/r/MensRights01/04/21 02:37 AM
-4

Why call it the patriarchy then? Why not just society and gender norms? Ie exactly what I'm proposing and describing in detail right here. Your argument is a fallacy from tautology. It's not fallacy from tautology, that's the definition. Imagine if someone said to you "that's a tomato, a kind of fruit". What you are doing right now is saying "Why call it a tomato? Just call it a fruit. That's fallacy from tautology". What you are saying is nonsense. Word meanings are by nature arbitrary, calling…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/04/21 02:34 AM
5

There are a lot of problems with this article, but this one stuck out: And if men are still worried about false allegations of rape, despite the stats, he wondered why they were empathising more with the perpetrator, than the victim. Even if you are falsely accused you are still "the perpetrator"? This one also is extremely uncomfortable: "If you're concerned about the possibility of someone you know making an allegation against you, maybe it's actually an opportunity to reflect on your own sexu…
/r/MensRights01/04/21 02:07 AM
0

No, your first definition and example is correct. Those using "toxic masculinity" as a vague pejorative are simply wrong. That said, both how society harms men and men are socialized to harm everyone are both aspects of toxic masculinity. To your questions in the second paragraph: yes, yes, yes. Feminists aren't a hivemind, I don't think the term is well spread because feminism itself is a reaction to problems with the female gender role, so it's kind of a given. It predates the term. Not sure w…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/03/21 08:56 AM
-9

by dating pressures placed on men (consciously or otherwise) by women who hold more power and influence in the dating world than men, or by capitalism which views men as disposable laborers? The patriarchy is society as it is, so all of those things are part of society. The combination of societal factors that create the idea of "man" is masculinity, the society from which that comes (in the west) is the patriarchy. I hope that is clear! ​ Nobody has proposed a mechanism where male dominance som…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/03/21 06:54 AM
87

Mutilating baby boys for the sexual pleasure of women. You can't make this stuff up. There's such a disconnect between us treating baby boys like this while teaching baby girls that their body is theirs and theirs alone, they aren't made for male approval let alone for male pleasure. Disgusting.
/r/MensRights31/03/21 06:46 AM
-10

I think you should re-contextualize what you are hearing. "Hatred of men in society" means the same thing as "toxic masculinity created by the patriarchy is harming men." Toxic masculinity is the idea that there are some problems with the male gender role (keep in mind that gender is a social construct, it's an idea created by society about how males should look, act, behave, and how they are treated). This gender role was created by the patriarchy (the patriarchy being a term used to reference …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/03/21 04:14 AM
1

The whole mansplaining thing highlights the problem with viewing things through a gendered lens. If you are a woman and have men explain something to you, it's very easy to take that experience and vastly generalize it and use it as an example of misogyny. However that ignores all the cases where a woman explains something to a woman, a man explains something to a man, or a woman explains something to a man. By making sexist assumptions based on your own experiences, you ignore half the picture.…
/r/MensRights30/03/21 08:08 AM
1

I think you have lost your place in the thread, go back and read it again so you can get back up to speed. Cheers.
/r/MensRights30/03/21 01:48 AM
26

Yeah, I think there's a disconnect. If I talk to the average feminist, we can both agree that someone like Koss or Walters are terrible sexist people, yet there is no criticism of them from within feminism. I think that it is seen as more important to defend feminist solidarity than it is to address these problematic behaviors. I have actually encountered this on the menslib sub, I made a thread trying to address this problem - of us as feminists not only not ousting toxic individuals, but defen…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/03/21 09:27 AM
6

Come on mate, don't respond to a post that is backed by studies with pseudointellectual ramblings. You said: "men don't really need relationships, we only need sex" but you are actually just speaking about yourself. Yet when someone challenges your opinion you claim "A single swallow doth not a Summer make." - that's a sophisticated argument, but not a correct one. Where's the studies backing up your opinion? There aren't any. Humans are social creatures, anti-social humans are damaged. You won'…
/r/MensRights29/03/21 06:58 AM
1

The platforms do it on purpose, people are a lot more happier having their opinions validated rather than challenged.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/03/21 08:21 AM
1

But just like we have to take the region into account when we talk about height, we need to take into account the bias of the subs/comments you are observing, plus the inherent bias of the reddit administration.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/03/21 06:57 AM
1

The problem is the sample you see on twitter is extremely biased. The men and women we see on the street are biased roughly to our region of the world, and we acknowledge that bias. We know that the people we see in Norway don't represent those in Vietnam. I don't think you are thinking about how big this bias can be if you aren't careful. Social media is designed to magnify biases.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/03/21 06:22 AM
2

I don't think there's any feasible way to say that without doing an actual study. For example are the neolib spaces newer? More diffuse? Do they use other platforms? Are the commie spaces older? Are they also overlapping with other things (anti-cap, anti-work)? I don't even know a feasible way for me to observe both sides to enough extent.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/03/21 05:11 AM
8

Social media functions as an echo chamber, people follow those who they like, and that causes everything to look more one sided than it really is. I've never heard anyone talk about #MeToo in real life, seen it on TV once, but if you go by certain twitter circles you'd think it was all anyone talks about.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/03/21 05:01 AM
12

That's quite the assumption, you seem to think #MeToo had a truly meteoric impact on society? I think barely anything has changed. Would love to see studies though
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/03/21 04:02 AM
38

Yep, what earns social status (and upvotes) for men is being soft, supportive and caring--especially with children. I think in theory that's a yes, but in practice that's not true: https://hbr.org/2018/10/how-men-get-penalized-for-straying-from-masculine-norms Men are treated poorly if they attempt to behave the way that modern society tells them to. Actions and words are not in alignment
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/03/21 01:06 AM
11

Uh, no, I agree that generalizing your experiences with some members of a group to the entire group is prejudice. It's like saying "men are all predators, I know from experience" - it's not right mate. If you are angry and hurting most people will let you say things you shouldn't say, but that doesn't mean what you are saying isn't wrong, and that doesn't' mean people have to have infinite patience with you. You can, and should, share your experiences, but do it free from discrimination please.
/r/MensRights25/03/21 08:03 AM
72

Angry people in power do horrible things.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/03/21 07:52 AM
1

You dropped your /s mate
/r/MensRights25/03/21 06:55 AM
1

Do you think your unwillingness to read papers could be related to you believing there's no evidence? :P
/r/MensRights25/03/21 06:49 AM
1

It is definitely possible to figure out how much crime is unreported, and I don't think that trying to say that all crime is reported is realistic in the first place. Have a read of this paper: https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv02.pdf
/r/MensRights25/03/21 06:03 AM
3

I think the problem is the vast majority of society agree that it's creepy and wrong. The culture is very much against doing these things, studies consistently show it's a tiny minority doing the wrong thing. To say this tiny minority represents all of society seems misguided to me. Western culture as a whole very much views rape as the worst crime, and women as the most valuable people.
/r/MensRights25/03/21 05:40 AM
36

When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression. ​ The idea that you have to be feminist to be leftist, but you don't have to be egalitarian is absurd. The rest of the post is just as ridiculous. There's no way to rebut or convince this kind of person that equality is good and bigotry is bad, because they are running purely on emotions. I hope one day they can see all the people they are hurting with their hatred.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/03/21 12:43 AM
1

I have no idea how a sub that seemingly exists only to spew hate became a default sub. There are constant extremely sexist threads and posts that receive huge amounts of upvotes and don't get any moderator action. What is reddit thinking with this? How can reddit openly support this kind of thing?
/r/MensRights24/03/21 06:55 AM
2

I would be surprised if anyone hasn't experienced all of the experiences listed.
/r/MensRights24/03/21 06:35 AM
3

It's a classic pattern of oppressed people, they aren't happy, and all they have left to express that is violence.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/03/21 06:51 AM
10

I absolutely agree that most people there are great, good people who want to help men. Unfortunately the mods are horrible people. Constantly silencing male voices and dismissing their experiences, spewing hateful rhetoric.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/03/21 03:16 AM
5

That show introduced that element in 2010. 10 years might not seem a lot, but in the case of this issue I think it is. That's a timespan during which there was a major royal commission in my country, and in which many Keep in mind the show ended mid 2017
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/03/21 03:28 AM
25

However, I have to ask the question: Would this experiment have even been possible were the genders reversed, or even if only the gender of the groomer were reversed? Would viewers still tolerate a series that takes them on that journey of experiencing the entire pattern of abuse? So, there's a series called Pretty Little Liars from 2010 where, in part, a male teacher is dating a female student. The show doesn't have any sensitivity about it, it's basically claims she has the maturity to handle …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/03/21 03:12 AM
15

It's also the ultimate freedom. After you leave home these people lose power over you.
/r/MensRights22/03/21 02:52 AM
2

It makes me wonder if making a naughty joke really is what we should be fighting. It feels like a bait and switch for an easier situation. Are people who make naughty jokes really causing people to be assaulted? It feels like the old fashioned "listening to rock and roll makes you a murderer". ​ Someone saying on camera that they can grab women by the P*ssy and they'll let you because you're famous was elected to the highest office in America and the comments were dismissed as 'locker room talk'…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/03/21 02:31 AM
7

I think that's the answer essentially. Harassment is done by a tiny minority of men in isolated 1 on 1 situations. I've never seen someone cat call in real life. One time I saw a man approach a woman to hit on her but she just said "no thanks" and he said "have a nice day" and they parted ways. I live in a city of +1 million people. The vast majority of things that I would consider to be sexist are jokes amongst groups of purely men coming from older (boomer) men. I'm not a big believer that all…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/03/21 02:27 AM
15

God, I hate this comparison, can you imagine if the right talked the same way? "Have a conversation with your black friends, teach them mugging and stealing is bad" Absolutely horrid.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/03/21 02:20 AM
1

Accurately reading a partner's negative emotions = knowing that a partner is suffering. This is wrong. If you are an oracle that predicts the end of the world, they may be upset when the world ends, but still in hindsight be satisfied with their career because their predictions were accurate. You see how those are two different things right? Everything else you wrote is based on this misunderstanding. Additionally, please look up the difference between correlation and causation.
/r/MensRights19/03/21 05:47 AM
3

She's one of the most popular porn stars in the world right? I think many people find her good looking.
/r/MensRights18/03/21 08:26 AM
11

Billie Eilish also admitted to raping men but nothing came of it. People just said "yasss slay queen" 🤷‍♀️
/r/MensRights18/03/21 08:21 AM
1

Well, IMO it is clear, but I can see there is something not lining up for you, so I think you will definitely benefit from reading the study. Keep in mind that "being satisfied with your relationship correlating to being able to correctly interpret negative emotions on your partner" is NOT the same as "being happy when your partner is sad".
/r/MensRights18/03/21 07:59 AM
1

Please read the actual study, it will clear up your confusion. The study is absolutely not trying to answer the question "do women feel happy when their partner is unhappy".
/r/MensRights18/03/21 05:59 AM
1

They are a disgusting and hateful person. There's not much else to say about them.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/21 04:52 AM
1

It's not muddled or confusing. I don't know why you are having trouble with this. ​ women who correctly understood that their partners were upset during the videotaped incident were much more likely to be satisfied with their relationship than if they correctly understood that their partner was happy Man suffering = woman satisfied. Nope. It says they were more likely to be SATISFIED WITH THEIR RELATIONSHIP when they COULD UNDERSTAND THAT THEIR PARTNER IS UPSET. Understanding partner is upset ->…
/r/MensRights18/03/21 04:31 AM
1

Mate, no offense but your reading comprehension is shit. The question isn't "are women happier when their partner is unhappy?" it's "are women more satisfied with their relationship if they correctly understand when their partner is unhappy?" The study does not address if women are happy when their partner is unhappy. Only if they are satisfied when they can correctly determine that their partner is unhappy. Those are vastly different things. ​ women who correctly understood that their partners …
/r/MensRights18/03/21 03:25 AM
7

I had the exact same experience in menslib. Posts deleted, pushed further and further away from feminism. I quickly found out this is extremely common and I am far from the only one being silenced. It's baffling how people don't see this is driving people away from feminism. There is an insidious culture of ignoring problems within feminism to maintain this veneer of being beyond reproach. It's sickening when subs that advertise them as being about men's rights prioritize venerating feminism ove…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/21 02:29 AM
1

This is where the researcher got surprised by her own results - that women are "more satisfied" when their partners were "upset" i.e. emotionally suffering than when their partner was "happy". You have misinterpreted the results. They were not happy that their partner was suffering, they were satisfied that they could correctly identify that their partner was suffering.
/r/MensRights18/03/21 02:00 AM
1

I am quoting the article. Women weren't happy that their partner was suffering, they were happy that they could correctly determine that their partner was suffering. They don't want to see their partner suffer, they want to know when they are suffering.
/r/MensRights18/03/21 01:59 AM
2

Do you understand what we are talking about? You may as well have replied "miniskirts" if that's the stance you were planning on taking.
/r/MensRights17/03/21 08:46 AM
80

I hate that the way forward is off the personal sacrifice of already vulnerable men. It feels like classic societal misandry forcing toxic masculine roles on men, expecting them to sacrifice for society. But I don't see any other way.
/r/MensRights17/03/21 08:16 AM
1

It is not hard to buy shorts shorter than knee length. They're literally a google search away if you want some. All my shorts stop well before the knee. That's facetious. If no mall shops or department stores sell them and you have to go online, that means they are hard to buy. Just because you can buy something if you google around doesn't mean it isn't less available.
/r/MensRights17/03/21 07:31 AM
2

Yes, shorts. Shorts as short as miniskirts are extremely uncommon. Even buying shorts shorter than knee length can be a challenge. And that's assuming you think that shorts are as revealing as shorts in the first place (which they aren't). ​ And when men wear women's clothes they are much more likely to get made fun of by other men rather than women. Even if that was true, the problem is that society oppresses men, not individuals of X or Y gender. Please do not try to turn men's rights into "bo…
/r/MensRights17/03/21 06:56 AM
-4

There are studies proving that women enjoy the sight of men suffering. So I think part of female nature is sadism. They couldn't act out that sadism in the past but now they can and do. Huh? Men like to know when their wife or girlfriend is happy while women really want the man in their life to know when they are not. It's not that women want men to be unhappy, they want their partner to know when they are unhappy.
/r/MensRights17/03/21 06:46 AM
16

It's objectification, treating men as infants who don't know right from wrong. Who doesn't know that murder is bad? Everyone knows that. Every murderer knows that. They don't need an enlightened feminist to explain to them to them. Society treats women as fully functional adults, and men as stunted children.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/21 03:25 AM
18

The idea that men can beat someone up or outrun them 100% of the time is completely toxic, sexist, and leads to a lot of people being killed or injured. To frame women being socialized to correctly understand risks and men being socialized to make bad choices as somehow being sexist /towards women/ is absolutely absurd. It's not a good thing to think you can "take out" a threat when you absolutely can't.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/21 03:16 AM
5

Thanks mate
/r/MensRights16/03/21 07:18 AM
30

I doubt it will ever happen, but the obsession with literally wiping all men out is disturbing.
/r/MensRights16/03/21 06:41 AM
3

It's a messed up world mate. I'm glad you have the internet now days so you have an accurate awareness of what's going on. Back in my day we just used to share stories about "such and such teacher hates boys and loves girls!" and marveled that all schools seemed to have a few teachers like that.
/r/MensRights16/03/21 06:18 AM
2

The internalized misandry in me makes me interpret that statement badly mate.
/r/MensRights16/03/21 06:09 AM
3

We should be addressing each individual situation, not pushing for a 100% female dominance in one field because there is less than 50% in another.
/r/MensRights16/03/21 06:03 AM
1

People say yes, people say no, we should wait for the court to make a judgement.
/r/MensRights16/03/21 05:49 AM
9

Would appreciate it, a lot easier than having to dig through post history.
/r/MensRights16/03/21 05:41 AM
9

Would love if you put sources!
/r/MensRights16/03/21 05:35 AM
6

The bottom line is no one should be discriminated against. I don't think that is up for debate - sexism is bad. People don't get a free pass because they are doing it for a good cause either, and f there is no way to express a point without saying something hateful then it isn't a good point to make. People who are being sexist are wrong. People advocating for sexist policies are wrong. It's not that hard.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/03/21 03:31 AM
1

This tweet stood out to me as especially ironic: Since my comments about a curfew for men to keep women safe, I've had a deluge of misogynistic emails and tweets. Which rather proves my point about the problem being with men ... So, they said something extremely sexist, got called out for that, then used that as proof that their sexism is justified because it upsets the victims? It's disgusting how many people openly support sexism like this without any kind of empathy or introspection.
/r/MensRights16/03/21 03:26 AM
1

My biggest problem is that they list a handful of movements and ideologies, then group them all together as "a fringe movement", then presenting this movement as being completely reactionary and adversarial to feminism. Men deserve equality for their own sake, not because feminist gave females equality. It's not a contest, men don't have to prove they are equal or worse off than females to be treated like human beings. Some people believe feminism does more harm than good, but that is absolutely…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/03/21 01:52 AM
12

The men's rights movement (MRM), also known as men's rights activism (MRA), masculism, or "The Men's Human Rights Movement",[2] is a fringe movement which espouses the view that social, legal, and economic discrimination against males is present in society to the extent that fighting it deserves an organized effort mirroring that of feminism, and crucially, that any and all variants of feminism do society and the individual far more harm than good. This is not accurate. I didn't feel like readin…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/03/21 09:03 AM
1

Mate, that's exactly what I'm talking about. It's fine to say "gay men have the right to decide who they want to be with" without saying "most people who say they're trans or whatever other made up bullshit are just trying to virtue signal". It's unnecessary. if someone says "I'm trans" as a way to virtue signal, then ok, it has absolutely no relevance to gay mens' right to consent. It doesn't belong in the discussion, and IMO it's transphobic.
/r/MensRights12/03/21 08:50 AM
1

No I didn't. I said: This thread badly needs a cleanup. There's no excuse for being sexist, homophobic, or transphobic. You do not need to be hateful to advocate for people having control of their own sexuality. Nowhere did I say that gay men are homophobic or transphobic. I said that people do not need to be hateful to advocate for people having control of their own sexuality (ie, IN FAVOR OF gay men who decide not to have sex with trans men). There is a huge amount of transphobia and homophobi…
/r/MensRights12/03/21 08:37 AM
-1

??? Yes ??? I know that ??? People are allowed to have control of their own sexuality. Read the thread mate, Penzinski asked "What happens when it’s trans people being violently homophobic?" and I replied "There's no excuse for being homophobic" I never said that it's transphobic for someone not to want to have sex with someone else. I have no idea how you jumped there mate.
/r/MensRights12/03/21 08:15 AM
-4

What happens when it’s trans people being violently homophobic? There's no excuse for being homophobic EDIT: I added the quote to the post above because some thought I was replying to myself or to OP. This post was part of a thread and it's a direct reply. Hopefully that clears up the confusion.
/r/MensRights12/03/21 06:58 AM
-7

This thread badly needs a cleanup. There's no excuse for being sexist, homophobic, or transphobic. You do not need to be hateful to advocate for people having control of their own sexuality. ​ EDIT: To clarify: There's no excuse for [the people in this thread and the twitter users in OP's post] being sexist, homophobic, or transphobic. [People in this thread] do not need to be hateful to advocate for [cis gay men] having control of their own sexuality [ie the right to not have sex with someone].…
/r/MensRights12/03/21 06:25 AM
23

I think you bring up a great point. ​ We definitely need to separate fetishizing men's bodies from treating men as being desirable.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/03/21 03:54 AM
13

Yeah, there's a lot going on there. The problem is the systematic denial of affection, attention, and validation towards men. The secondary problem is the suppression of male emotions, wants, and needs. Not only are men not complimented, but they are told not to compliment. I think this is quite dangerous, it leaves men unfulfilled, without the tools to talk about it - let alone address the problem.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/03/21 03:52 AM
4

Because the UN does not recognize IMD and instead Toilet Day that may be their defense. How is this a defense? "No, we weren't giving all women a bonus because of IMD, it was because of toilet day, we all know women use more TP than men!"
/r/MensRights11/03/21 12:29 PM
19

I don't think this will work in the US either.
/r/MensRights11/03/21 12:28 PM
34

That is incredibly risky. Logically you are correct, but people aren't logical. You will be thought of as the trouble maker, an asshole, and most likely labeled as a misogynist. Even if you work for a great company that is very receptive of men's issues, this is such a dangerous thing to do.
/r/MensRights11/03/21 12:28 PM
5

The largest Muslim populations are: Indonesia (12.7%), Pakistan (11%), and India (10.9%), Bangladesh (9.2%), Nigeria (5.3%). 20% of all Muslims live in the middle east, over 30% of all Muslims live in Asia.
/r/MensRights11/03/21 08:58 AM
2

being a boy is an issue that needs to be cured (this defect is called ADHD I think they were saying "being a boy is sometimes misinterpreted as ADHD". "the majority of ADHD diagnoses in primary-school aged children are male and it's an evil feminist conspiracy to drug little boys" is one of them. I don't think anyone is saying that.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/03/21 05:44 AM
1

This may be a good start: https://www.cdc.gov/healthequity/lcod/men/2017/all-races-origins/index.htm https://www.cdc.gov/women/lcod/2017/all-races-origins/index.htm
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/03/21 05:30 AM
3

The mods were very clear to me, they told me feminism comes first, men come somewhere after that. I think we assumed it was run "for men", but it's just "about men".
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/03/21 05:26 AM
11

I was actually banned from r/menslib for posting on r/mra about my post being deleted on r/menslib for talking about my experience with sexism in r/feminism. Shortly after I was banned from r/feminism for saying that women shouldn't be conscripted 🤷‍♀️ Male spaces are usually more tolerant of non-male views than female spaces are (for reference, I consider r/menslib to be a non-male space since it is not run for men and prioritizes feminism).
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/03/21 11:20 AM
1

Lifespan for women and men have been increasing, so it's a matter of re-evaluating how we spend money in health care and research. ​ If we have to chose between 5 extra years for everyone or 5 extra years for men only it seems obvious were the money should go to improve human life the most, no? Absolutely, no one is saying otherwise. However men and women don't die of the same things at the same rates. ​ I did see someone post that the life expectancy of men actually became lower in the last dec…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/03/21 11:02 AM
4

I think it's very difficult. While I have had some success reporting users who are sexist, reporting mods never works. Once I even reported a user, then reported a mod backing up that user in a direct reply (in an explicitly sexist way), but the mods message was not removed. Even worse, mods often are very careful about never saying they are doing something sexist, only making comments that are sexist in context. This makes them all but unreportable. With regards to subs, often mods are careful …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/03/21 09:25 AM
12

I think they are referring to over-diagnosis of ADHD, not ADHD in general.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/03/21 08:43 AM
2

If it was purely biological, then it's still something that needs to be addressed. Men dying years earlier than women is clearly a bad thing, it's something we can work on.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/03/21 07:48 AM
1

Rare things do happen, and I don't see anything clickbaity. It's a low karma account.
/r/MensRights10/03/21 07:26 AM
1

Same thing with the "teach men not to rape" stuff going around a few years ago. As if rapists don't know what they are doing is bad... It seems like deflection, people don't want to address the actual problems.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/03/21 06:03 AM
1

I don't think it's that big a deal for kids to work so long as there are laws in place to protect them from dangerous work or exploitation.
/r/MensRights09/03/21 05:59 AM
1

I think it wouldn't make a difference. The other party is claiming that OP raped /them/. The lack of signed forms from either party isn't proof that one particular party raped the other.
/r/MensRights09/03/21 05:24 AM
5

In Sweden you can work at 16 unrestricted, and before that there are stipulations but you can work as young as 13. ​ In my country you can work at 14, and I had a temp office job at that age, so I didn't find that to be unusual haha
/r/MensRights09/03/21 04:53 AM
0

Idk if the story is real or not, but an account with 18k karma and best post only 1.5k is a karma whore? I'm not sure about that at all. What's the basis for thinking the story is fake?
/r/MensRights09/03/21 04:51 AM
2

I'm not seeing how it would help in this case, the same thing would have played out, no signed forms.
/r/MensRights09/03/21 04:47 AM
0

That's horrifying.
/r/MensRights09/03/21 04:42 AM
1

That's ok, I am not a fan either, just look at the sub we are on. It's just tiring to see anti-feminism everywhere. It's not an intrinsic part of men's rights, egalitarianism, and it didn't need to be in that post. Anyway, have a good one.
/r/MensRights09/03/21 02:49 AM
1

The dig wasn't necessary my friend
/r/MensRights09/03/21 02:27 AM
2

Sure, maybe that's true, maybe there's no bias, but people are reacting to the general situation where there is bias. Not everyone browses that sub.
/r/MensRights08/03/21 09:10 AM
1

To be fair to the principal, there's a good chance he would have acted the same way with a female victim. Maybe that particular mod would have locked the thread if it was by a woman, but on reddit there's a general pattern of silencing male voices, and not women's. People are reacting to the general situation, especially if they don't have experience with that sub or that mod specifically.
/r/MensRights08/03/21 03:52 AM
3

YMMV I guess 🤷‍♀️
/r/MensRights08/03/21 03:49 AM
30

I don't feel it's being shoved in my face. There are a lot of good causes and a lot of days in the year. Apart from google changing their logo (and I don't even visit google, I use the omnibar) and some reddit threads and fb posts, I wouldn't even know it was women's day.
/r/MensRights08/03/21 03:12 AM
2

Posts when a male is the victim are often deleted/locked/banned in most popular subs. I think that makes a lot of people sensitive to potential silencing of male voices. I suspect OP intended to discuss how the principal punished the victim of sexual assault and then dodged calls though.
/r/MensRights08/03/21 03:00 AM
2

Me too, but over how many hundreds or thousands of posts should we continue to give benefit of the doubt?
/r/MensRights08/03/21 02:58 AM
3

Oh for real? Ok I understand then 😅😅
/r/MensRights08/03/21 02:15 AM
8

There's more to it than that. I only logged in to reddit an hour ago, but already I've seen this. Someone was saying that if your wife does the grocery shopping, then the husband is a child and needs to grow up - apparently real men (tm) do the grocery shopping. I think the core concept is that men should live their lives solely for women. Anything that detracts from that (having a hobby, not doing a chore, etc) makes them less of a man. Men aren't supposed to be happy, they are supposed to make…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/03/21 01:15 AM
1

You know when people say "all men X" it doesn't actually mean "all men", they are just expressing their frustration? Same thing here, "not all women, but certainly a lot of them".
/r/MensRights08/03/21 12:48 AM
1

Men need to step up and stop being boys, do their own shopping Yes, it's not manly for a man to ask their partner to pick something up from the shop for them, it totally makes sense for a a couple to do their shopping separately. 🙄 Can we please stop with this bizarre gatekeeping to masculinity? Ironically this is yet another case of society's hypocritical and hateful behavior towards men - build a society where men are expected to work longer hours, but also punish them for not doing more chore…
/r/MensRights08/03/21 12:41 AM
4

One of them is a baby jumpsuit that says "misandrist" 🙄
/r/MensRights04/03/21 12:55 AM
2

I was thinknig about the binary distinction between men and women and how they're clearly divided based on biological features. That's "sex". Sex = biology, gender = everything else. This is by definition. ​ From the Oxford dictionary: sex either of the two main categories (male and female) into which humans and most other living things are divided on the basis of their reproductive functions. gender either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social a…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/03/21 03:37 AM
1

But gender IS the cultural expression: "either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones." (from oxford dictionary).
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/03/21 03:29 AM
1

I don't think there is any basis for saying gender is universal. For example in Scotland men wear kilts, in much of the middle east and SEA men wear robes, in much the rest of the west men do not wear either of those. Isn't this a clear and obvious example that gender is cultural?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/03/21 01:52 AM
0

I'm saying that "Part of this problem is culture not gender" is a meaningless thing to say, all gender is a social construct in the first place. "A different culture has different gender roles" is obvious.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/03/21 12:08 AM
17

It's very bizarre to me that "not letting the MRAs win" is more important to some than "being against sexism". I don't understand it.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/02/21 06:50 AM
2

That's messed up :/
/r/MensRights25/02/21 07:12 AM
-3

Gender is a social construct. All gender issues are inherently cultural issues.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/02/21 02:52 AM
17

the most common answer when I ask them why they don't initiate is because it makes them anxious and they are scared of rejection. One thing that I've found striking is that men and women often have the same feelings in the same situation. It's incredibly easy to understand people of the opposite gender simply by being put in the same situation. It's amazing how so many so-called "gendered issues" are universal.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/02/21 01:25 AM
13

I don't think they are talking about fun internet arguments when they say "bulling" mate. Bullying is definitely real, being harassed or abused online happens. We aren't talking about someone calling you names on CoD here.
/r/MensRights25/02/21 01:16 AM
6

I thought they had focused on women because pink shirt day is about stopping bullying of girls, or something. I googled it, and it's just about anti-bullying for both sexes :/
/r/MensRights25/02/21 01:03 AM
22

Well, it's good that there is finally some acknowledgement that institutionalized sexism is bad at least. ​ In my country women are them majority of university, high school, and score higher in basically every metric. Every department except 2 is majority women, every university bar one is majority women (60% male, while most universities are 60-70% female, with the highest being 95% female). There is a huge female dominated state in education here, and that is supported by sexist policy making.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/02/21 11:49 PM
-20

Patriarchy means "those at the top are mostly men" not "all men are at the top". The patriarchy oppresses both men and women (as I'm sure you know). I think your comment basically shows why this was a poorly chosen name for the power structure - if those at the oppresses were women that doesn't change anything.
/r/MensRights22/02/21 02:01 AM
18

Isn't gender a protected class?
/r/MensRights22/02/21 01:58 AM
15

I think it's more accurate to say that it's about directing anger. Directing anger against men was for some reason easier or more palatable than aiming at the ruling class. Perhaps for obvious reasons.
/r/MensRights22/02/21 01:57 AM
1

It is up to the victim to decide if they want to press charges, but it is also up to them to decide how serious they think the crime is. In this situation the offense should be reported as others may have been raped too. Telling a child who is raped that it's a minor offense is not good at all.
/r/MensRights12/02/21 08:43 AM
5

I see a lot of low quality problems with the delete posts, but I think you are right that the messages the mod skipped are more indicative of their intentions. Eg not deleting a message calling someone an incel or stalking someone's post history...
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/02/21 06:17 AM
19

I think a lot of those comments are low quality. I don't know enough about the sub to say whether or not they were deleted just for being bad posts or to silence male voices though. ​ EDIT: nvm, OP was correct. The mod has been explicit that they are against male rights and men :/ https://www.reddit.com/r/psychology/comments/lhcq76/7_million_people_have_committed_suicide_due_to/gn17idv/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/02/21 03:39 AM
1

There's a bit to unpack there. Yeah, friends don't usually insult each other unironically (I hope). But also people usually don't care all that much about men. It's not like it's common for people to call anyone fat unless they are being descriptive, right? I think fatphobia is basically manufactured to "explain" disability from being obese.
/r/MensRights11/02/21 07:44 AM
2

Yeah, that makes sense. A lot of people just have sex for mutual pleasure and if you’re not getting it done, you’re probably not getting a call back. Why would I not expect one of us not to cum when that’s the end goal??? Right, but why is all that burden on men and not on women? Did you ever consider that maybe men should be allowed to have sex for their own enjoyment, not solely for the pleasure of their partner?
/r/MensRights10/02/21 03:17 AM
1

I'm talking about the social expectations rather than individual experiences. Society tends to have different standards for many things, including sex. Obviously society puts huge pressure on men to perform and their bodies to be ideal. Framing sex as something that men do for women is part of the way that society oppresses men - it turns something that is supposed to be fun and intimate into an opportunity to attack a male's identity. If a man has a penis that is too small or they aren't skille…
/r/MensRights09/02/21 06:19 AM
3

I am not sure how common that is considering the expectations society has on men (eg even saying "motion of the ocean"), but even in your example that's a lot more than the stereotypical pillow princess does. Thanks for the input though.
/r/MensRights09/02/21 03:58 AM
3

lol I'm just talking specifically about pillow princesses mate. I don't think there is an equivalent for males.
/r/MensRights09/02/21 03:43 AM
8

this also ties into biology, the man has a dick, the woman has a vagina, the man fucks, the woman gets fucked, Framing female privilege as disadvantage is incorrect. Pillow princesses are not disadvantaged by not being expected to do anything during sex. It's an expression of female sexual power that women merely "allowing" men to have sex with them is seen as a blessing to men.
/r/MensRights09/02/21 02:10 AM
29

Sexual harassment and instant rejection both stem from objectification of men, in both cases men are being seen only as sexual objects not as humans.
/r/MensRights09/02/21 02:07 AM
3

they've tried so hard to ban Gone With The Wind. Have they? That's so strange. Perhaps my memory of the film is incorrect, I thought Gone with the Wind is extremely sympathetic towards Scarlett. I don't remember it framing anything she does as bad, especially her and her family's role in slavery. The whole film is "Scarlett is blameless but the poor girl's life is suffering".
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/02/21 12:24 AM
1

Rhodes was a white supremacist.
/r/MensRights08/02/21 06:06 AM
23

Scary. It goes to show how important it is to challenge problematic stereotypes. As we all know, men are victims of domestic violence too.
/r/MensRights05/02/21 08:26 AM
2

Heartbreaking, poor kid. I hope they can get the help they need, it's difficult for boys to get support.
/r/MensRights05/02/21 08:06 AM
2

That sub is sickening. I don't know who reddit allows subs that seemingly only exist to be hateful.
/r/MensRights05/02/21 06:34 AM
5

Sent an email, thanks for the suggestion.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/02/21 06:34 AM
5

It makes me so happy to see the support a positivity in that thread. I'm going to echo what everyone else has said, men deserve respect and understanding. Asking for help with a medical issue isn't weakness. And even if you are literally weak, that's ok and doesn't make you any less of a valid human being.
/r/MensRights05/02/21 06:21 AM
22

It hurts me to read this, I think feminism and men's rights have failed the younger generations in the worst way. I hope the future will be brighter, thanks for the reminding us why it's so important to fight. I don't want any more kids to have to grow up in this hate filled world. Good luck mate, thanks for sharing your experiences.
/r/MensRights05/02/21 06:14 AM
7

I'm stunned that something like this hasn't been taken down. It's incredible to see a pro-domesitc-violence post. It's hard to find words to explain how I feel about this.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/02/21 01:28 AM
7

Just because it's misandry doesn't mean it doesn't have root causes and historical context. Those two things are not mutually exclusive.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/02/21 07:07 AM
1

Ok, so long as you are aware that you are disagreeing with every dictionary out there and everyone who uses the word. It's just you on this crusade.
/r/MensRights03/02/21 12:05 AM
3

Menslib as a forum is great, every time I talk to users from there it's a great experience. Everyone is positive and civil. The mods however, are extremely childish and intent on shutting down anything that could be vaguely construed as criticizing the left. In many cases I have seen them raise these seemingly legitimate (if pedantic) concerns, "you need to be more precise about what you mean by 'lefty circles'", but once that problem is corrected they find a new one, and that continues until th…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/02/21 12:04 AM
1

You can't discern the meaning of a word just by deconstructing it to its roots. Words don't work that way - it's like arguing you can't pick up the ball with your hands in football because it has "foot" in the name. As I've said, that's not the meaning that any dictionary prescribe to the word, and as you've said that's not what society uses it to mean.
/r/MensRights02/02/21 12:09 AM
11

Men need some pathway to achieve status in their lives. Because a man's sexual success is so strongly correlated with his status. I agree, which is why I think the tweeter stopping at "they are horny" and not exploring why that is or what that means is a failure. I think most people investing in $GME are thinking they will make money.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/02/21 02:25 AM
26

I think there's a huge difference between "decades of active oppression of men is causing them to become increasingly desperate" and "men crashed the stock market because they are horny lol". ​ Interpreting WSB as "fuck this" is completely wrong, everyone is just trying to make a living and feel that gambling is about the only path left open to them. Fighting against the corrupt establishment is a side gig.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/02/21 02:07 AM
1

As you said, OP's definition isn't perfect, and as I explained this is because it's overly restrictive compared to the dictionary definition. It's hypocritical to say "people who use misogyny more loosely than the dictionary are wrong, the real definition is even more strict than the dictionary!"
/r/MensRights01/02/21 01:14 AM
1

That describes sexism, not misogyny. Then you're not arguing with me, you are arguing with the oxford dictionary.
/r/MensRights01/02/21 12:39 AM
1

That doesn't mean we are justified in misusing it too.
/r/MensRights01/02/21 12:37 AM
4

I think you are taking a too narrow view, look at the definition wiki gives: Misogyny (/mɪˈsɒdʒɪni/) is the hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against women or girls Putting aside your initial example, clearly that's more than just hatred, right? Words have a meaning beyond what it says in the definition, if misogyny is used to mean "behavior that discriminates against women", then that is what it means. Just look at the word "homophobia", it means to be afraid of gay people right? Well, not …
/r/MensRights29/01/21 01:30 AM
10

No, it's not normal to fight and threaten your spouse. If this is happening in your relationship, please seek someone impartial to talk to about the problems.
/r/MensRights29/01/21 01:24 AM
3

Yes but this is definitely a step in the right direction. More work is absolutely needed, but this is great news!
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/01/21 01:08 AM
17

No wonder so many men have relationship issues with society shoveling toxic myths like these down their throats. I can imagine someone could just as easily frame masculinity and men as being captives of the women who hold power over them (mother, teachers, spouse, etc).
/r/MensRights28/01/21 09:56 AM
5

What does it matter? Am I supposed to be happier with misandry if it's from men?
/r/MensRights28/01/21 07:27 AM
3

It's terrifying the lack of support that men have in supposedly modern and progressive countries.
/r/MensRights28/01/21 06:36 AM
3

I'm not sure why you are being downvoted, this is absolutely correct. Society encourage men to sacrifice themselves for the good of women.
/r/MensRights28/01/21 06:19 AM
1

Well, let's find some sources so we all know what we are talking about :P
/r/MensRights28/01/21 05:54 AM
1

I bet I could quote your entire post back to you and you'd say you disagree with everything in it. There's no point in discussing anything with a position-less contrarian. Thanks, but I'm not replying anymore.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/01/21 12:14 AM
1

I'm sure they would tolerate it, but why contrive an example the alienates your audience? Or worse, why risk having them relate to the behavior you are saying is bad? There's plenty of places to fight for equality, but the comment section of cafemom.com is not one of them to me.
/r/MensRights27/01/21 08:31 AM
1

I don't agree with you. Mate, just relax and think about what you are saying. You say I misrepresented your position, but actually that you agree with the supposed strawman? It's so pointless to continue this discussion any further, you are just disagreeing with everything I say and any attempt to establish any kind of common ground. Instead you just want to say I'm a sexist and complain about god knows what in your convoluted post. There is literally no substance or arguments to your post besid…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/01/21 05:44 AM
4

My opinion is, when any fears start impacting your daily life then it needs to be dealt with, probably by a therapist. Whether or not those fears are rational, that's no excuse for abusing others.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/01/21 04:14 AM
1

Why should this raise a red flag? How do you know that I haven't looked into these claims? You seem to be making a lot of assumptions about me that aren't grounded in reality. All I have is your post. If you say one thing, but think another, then how can I possibly know that? If you agree with me, just say you agree, there's no need to argue - especially if the basis of your argument is "ah yes but I was thinking of something else". The rest of your post is a weird rant about how you don't need …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/01/21 03:17 AM
1

Although some may argue that, I'm just referencing the post which lists "rape/hit/assault". Check image 4/10
/r/MensRights27/01/21 02:11 AM
6

I think you are asking the wrong questions. Rational or not, some women are afraid of men. Rational or not, some men feel the need to act less afraid than they really are. You aren't going to change either of those things with statistics, because they are subjective emotional issues, it doesn't matter if they are rational or not. I think the real issue that you should be focusing on is victimization/oppression of men. Remember also that feminism is a lens, it's natural for feminism to frame anyt…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/01/21 01:58 AM
7

The strange part to me is if you believe Trump is Hitler, why would you go so far as to avoid labelling yourself an insurrectionist during these 4 years of protests? Surely that would be a good thing. But yeah, it's all word games.
/r/MensRights22/01/21 08:20 AM
1

I think you have a point, but those examples are poor. I am not sure that any of these are actually the result of feminism. For example I do not think a lot of countries originally had conscription for both sexes, but then dropped female conscription due to feminism, or didn't have conscription but instituted only male conscription due to feminism. The issues feminism wants to address are when women are disadvantaged. So "men are conscripted but not women" is not a feminist issue, because there …
/r/MensRights22/01/21 07:51 AM
4

It's so weird to me the cognitive dissonance between people claiming this isn't racist and simultaneously claiming that something like 👌 is a racist dog whistle. It does my head in.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/01/21 07:10 AM
0

This is a straw man argument/fallacy. I think you should reread your post: One of the most disheartening things to hear is the charge that activism on behalf of boys and men is a backlash against feminism. The logic goes that male advocacy is a smoke screen for more sinister motives namely the desire to halt gender equality. This alone should raise a red flag for you. Instead of saying "these people say this because there legitimately is a large portion of men's rights movement who believe this"…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/01/21 04:23 AM
3

I was just addressing your assertion that men's activism isn't at least in some part actually a literal backlash. I wasn't giving an opinion on whether I thought the backlash was justified, just that it definitely exists and so perceiving and discussing it is not misguided. I would also challenge the idea that those who are engaged in a backlash against feminism don't want equality, or at least don't want "real equality". The just view feminism as a major barrier.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/01/21 01:58 AM
1

I agree to an extent, feminism and men's rights are intertwined since male and female are the dominant gender roles of society.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/01/21 01:54 AM
1

Sometimes, yes, but I was just addressing OP's post not passing opinion on who was in the right and what the correct course of action is
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/01/21 01:53 AM
5

100% agreed, inability to take criticism is the most troubling thing I find about feminism. It means that most problems simply cannot be addressed.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/01/21 01:50 AM
1

Obviously we all know prejudice is bad, but "I avoid all X because some X are harmful" is valid logically. It's an ethical problem.
/r/MensRights22/01/21 01:47 AM
18

I mean, I think having people around watching usually deters crime right? ​ The stereotype that men are there to protect women is not healthy though. Deliberately putting men specifically in harms way is toxic. Men are no more bullet proof than women, and no more capable of keeping watch and calling the cops.
/r/MensRights21/01/21 09:34 AM
4

Portraying this as a Jewish issue really misses the mark for me. 72 to 92% of American men have had their genitals mutilated, but only around 2% of the US is Jewish.
/r/MensRights21/01/21 09:30 AM
191

Here's the tl;dr It's safer to assume the worst of men Sexism against men is not as important as violence against women These statements are about the social construct "man" rather than individuals Addressing sexism derails more important conversations It's about the statistics, not the actions of individuals The feelings of men are not important in this discussion ​ I think these points could probably have been combined (2, 4, and 6 could be combined into "a bit of sexism is not important compa…
/r/MensRights21/01/21 08:45 AM
44

I'm not so certain. Your post is well written, but I think that a good deal of MRA activity is explicitly backlash against feminism, and there are numerous people who would say that feminism isn't just the biggest obstacle to progressing men's issues, it's also the cause of many of these issues.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/01/21 07:34 AM
8

He's an idiot too for failing to see that beating a man with a weapon is wrong. Of course he knew it was wrong, but he was groomed, convinced there was no other way and the other guy was subhuman scum who deserved to die. It's easy to say "oh yeah he should have realized it"
/r/MensRights21/01/21 02:16 AM
1

Doing it in real life to someone? Maybe. But there's a lot of "kick in the nuts humor" out there in tv shows, movies, cartoons, etc. Is it all for the 1%? I don't think so.
/r/MensRights20/01/21 03:52 AM
1

I don't need to make a counterargument against someone whose sorry excuse for an argument is to assert, by metaphor, that society doesn't exist. There is absolutely no reason for me, or anyone else, to try to argue with someone who says such ridiculous things. My comment was not a counterargument, just personal advice for you.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/01/21 02:24 AM
22

Can you please post an example of a job listing that plainly states they are employing only men to a role where being a male is not necessary?
/r/MensRights19/01/21 08:15 AM
1

then legit criticism of actual bad practices in Nazism gets ignored because No True Scotsman. You know this isn't a case of No True Scotsman right? I'm not claiming feminists with X ideology are not "true feminists", I'm saying that there is no implicit expectation of agreement of ideology between all feminists. It's very close to being the inverse of No True Scotsman. ​ And that's fine, but even people who don't agree with the leaders can at least tacitly admit that their leaders have actually …
/r/MensRights19/01/21 08:07 AM
1

If that was your argument then I think it could have been better expressed from the start. There's a ton of debate about what masculinity is, and obviously it's highly nuanced based on culture and sub-culture. There's even debate as to which parts of masculinity are toxic, or if masculinity as a whole is toxic, or of gender as a whole is toxic. Never mind projections, we aren't fighting over UV here we are fighting over XYZ.
/r/MensRights19/01/21 07:48 AM
1

And since men are at the head of society, and society is patriarchal, men are to blame, according to feminism. I'm sure some feminists believe that, but that is not a commonly held idea in my experience. I think this is basically a strawman at this point. ​ It's not something that every feminist accept I'm not so sure about that, there is a conscious effort to create the gamma bias in feminist communities, for example by praising women's achievements. That's what happens when you have a communit…
/r/MensRights19/01/21 07:43 AM
1

Sorry to say, but we live in a society. The sooner you accept that the better.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/01/21 07:38 AM
1

Good question for Long_Cut_7015, maybe you should ask them.
/r/MensRights19/01/21 07:36 AM
1

I suspect you already know the problems with that study, but if one with less problems is completed then of course I'm willing to change language. Coming from communities where the term is not offensive of course taints my perception, and I'm sure you feel the same way where the term is considered exrta-offensive.
/r/MensRights19/01/21 07:35 AM
1

I don't think it's practical to claim that all sweeping statements about feminism should be allowed in order to avoid explaining that feminism isn't a hivemind. That's a fact that needs to be accepted before any kind of productive discussion can happen.
/r/MensRights19/01/21 07:31 AM
1

I don't think it is, or should be, feminism's job to tackle men's issues
/r/MensRights19/01/21 07:29 AM
1

I think you are projecting your own feelings there. I am not sure if any studies have been done on this matter but I imagine that considering the tremendous number of feminists in the world there are many many men who do not find the term offensive.
/r/MensRights19/01/21 03:30 AM
0

I think the amount of debate over the patriarchy within feminism makes this post fall a little flat. There are plenty of people who disagree over the nature of the patriarchy without being expelled from the movement. The debate you are talking about is happening for the patriarchy, and has been happening for decades. It seems to me that patriarchy is being scientifically reviewed and refined exactly as you claim you would like. ​ Take a quick read of this highly abridged wiki: https://en.wikiped…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/01/21 03:14 AM
1

I mean, "I'm a Nazi, but that doesn't mean I give implicit approval of the actions of all other fascists. I just think Hitler had some good ideas about economic structures." Inversely I think it's a stretch to imply that everyone in the Nazi party agreed with everything Mussolini did. I mean, even in USA today plenty of registered democrats and republicans don't agree with their leaders. The difference between a social movement and a political party is that social movements have no defined leade…
/r/MensRights19/01/21 03:02 AM
1

Sure, perhaps anything else would have been as effective as feminism in those circumstances. However, at best that's speculation. We know that historically feminism has been a great vehicle for progress while other movements have not been, that's all we can truly say. And like I said, if other forces formed feminism and drove it to its conclusion, then that's basically saying that feminists are just a result of their time and there's no need to make active progress, something I don't agree with.
/r/MensRights19/01/21 02:43 AM
1

I don't see how we can talk about men's issues without talking about men.
/r/MensRights19/01/21 02:35 AM
1

Why is that? Would love to see some studies. Simply saying "X society has Y disparity" doesn't prove much to me, it could simply be cultural.
/r/MensRights19/01/21 02:14 AM
1

Men aren't to blame, society is. ​ Just to know, have you heard of the gamma bias and the empathy gap? Yes
/r/MensRights19/01/21 02:13 AM
1

The studies don't go into the reasons, but if you speculate that it's because of social pressures on women, then surely you can see that's not good.
/r/MensRights19/01/21 01:52 AM
1

Men are not a hivemind friend. Plenty of men can differentiate between "toxic masculinity" and "masculinity is toxic". The term "toxic femininity" is way more precise and descriptive than "misogyny".
/r/MensRights19/01/21 01:51 AM
1

Same as TERFs - some oppose them, some don't, some TERFs are in power, some anti-TERFs are.
/r/MensRights19/01/21 01:50 AM
1

I never said that mate.
/r/MensRights19/01/21 01:49 AM
1

Well, glad you are happy with it, but a lot of men aren't that keen on working.
/r/MensRights19/01/21 01:49 AM
1

I wish I would have had something clever and insightful to help you briefly see things from my perspective, I understand your perspective, I just don't agree with you that's all. It was good to talk to you, I appreciate your comments. In the end maybe we couldn't see eye to eye but I think we both tried our best to explain. Will check out your links, cheers.
/r/MensRights16/01/21 04:32 AM
1

Seemed to work out well enough for your movement, even if it eventually did drive it raving mad. I'd say that means it didn't work out well. Needless to say I don't agree with the rest of your post either. What say we end this thread here?
/r/MensRights16/01/21 03:04 AM
2

However, the only thing of substance, which affects my life and generally efforts at men's activism, that an average "good at heart, loves-men, my-feminism-is-not-like-that" feminist seems to do At risk of stating the obvious, maybe that's because feminists focus on females...... ​ Not everyone has got enough free time to be as sophisticated and nuanced as possible about every single issue. Well, so long as you know that you are making sweeping statements that aren't going to hold up factually..…
/r/MensRights16/01/21 02:20 AM
1

I just don't believe that society has no influence on the way people act. The idea that society influences the way people act is far more congruent with my experiences in life than saying everything is biological. It is hard for me that the "nurture" in "nature vs nurture" comes solely from feminist ideology. Is Baumeister the only one supporting this idea?
/r/MensRights16/01/21 02:06 AM
10

To date [...] 200 million women have undergone genital mutilation. This seems like a strange thing to say when there are more than half that many men suffering from genital mutilation in USA today. To date how many men have been mutilated? Billions?
/r/MensRights16/01/21 01:56 AM
1

I am extremely skeptical of the idea that things like haircut preference or pants vs skirts are encoded in our DNA. There are so many societies where men do not wear pants or wear their hair long. I'm willing to give Baumeister a chance though, thanks for the recommendation.
/r/MensRights16/01/21 01:33 AM
1

Are they the same vocal and powerful minority who are active in teaching the theory, giving the talks before the Congress, and the United Nations, running the major advocacy organizations, spearheading the war on fathers' rights, and also shutting down conferences on male suicide that were going to address it from a non-feminist perspective? Yup, that's them. ​ Like, what do the feminists like yourself, who don't share this view even do, practically speaking, except give the power to the group t…
/r/MensRights16/01/21 01:28 AM
1

I mostly agree with that. The point I was making is that public officials adopting feminism in recent history compared to 100 years ago is irrespective of whether or not society is gynocentric.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/01/21 01:16 AM
1

I am not aware of any biological reason as to why men are more interested in spreadsheets than women. Does this also apply to women wearing skirts? Are men biologically wired to wear pants? How about hair? Is there something in our DNA which tells men to wear their hair short and women to grow theirs out?
/r/MensRights16/01/21 01:13 AM
1

Ok, let's start from the start. Sex is biological, all good here right? Gender is everything that is not biological. For example: Men are strong? biological, men do put on and keep muscle easier than women. Men are stoic? social, there's no biological reason why men shouldn't express their emotions, it's just because they were socialized that way. Does that sound ok to you? Another example would be the dynamic that women take care of the home, and men go out and work. In ancient times when this …
/r/MensRights16/01/21 01:04 AM
7

Great link, short and to the point.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/01/21 12:54 AM
2

I guess we are both on the same page that you are in the minority of feminists who feel that way, yes? No, I think a vocal and powerful minority has been generalized to cover the entirety of feminism. Would love to see some stats though. ​ I think you can benefit from being familiar with that argument. The same argument that I brought up in the feminist community which got me banned and prompted me to make this thread? That argument? Do you see what I'm getting at?
/r/MensRights16/01/21 12:51 AM
1

Feminist theories like toxic masculinity, and MensLib-like communities build around them, tend to presume that it is primarily the men who enforce male gender role expectations for other men, or make laws for the benefit of other men. No, masculinity is a social construct, it is society as a whole which is responsible for it. Toxic masculinity usually does not benefit men.
/r/MensRights16/01/21 12:47 AM
1

Agreed
/r/MensRights16/01/21 12:46 AM
1

So you don't think men and women are treated any different by society? Not getting it mate.
/r/MensRights16/01/21 12:46 AM
1

Holding feminists who are openly against anti-male feminists accountable for the actions of anti-male feminists is like holding non-rapist males accountable for the actions of male rapists. I hate it when people do that, I'm guessing you do too, no? The argument with regards to the patriarchy is that those who do not oppose it but benefit from its structures are complicit and share blame. Not that those who oppose it are to blame. If your argument was supposed to be pure irony, it's assertions a…
/r/MensRights16/01/21 12:36 AM
1

Not sure what you are getting at. Gender exists. Women exist. Males hardly exist? Something is being lost in communication here.
/r/MensRights16/01/21 12:28 AM
1

Do you really, honestly believe that a full-time feminist ideologue would have anything except sheer hostility for anyone taking a "multidisciplinary approach", which would necessarily downplay downplay her ideological perspective to make space for including other scientific views? No domain expert likes to be sidelined, but it's a necessity IMO.
/r/MensRights16/01/21 12:25 AM
1

Hm, what do you mean? I think it's well established that women like muscly men. Feminism tends to focus on issues that have gender disparity disadvantaging women, but that doesn't necessarily mean that in a broader social construct there is disadvantage. Thank you too for the discussion. It's been interesting.
/r/MensRights16/01/21 12:24 AM
1

Being gynocentric doesn't mean that women aren't oppressed or that there is public support for women. That is the exact logic that anti-male feminists use to claim that "the patriarchy means men cannot be oppressed".
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/01/21 12:03 AM
1

Maybe, or maybe the fact that you are largely feminist results in some stylish rose-colored glasses. Or perhaps the opposite? ​ She says that masculinity itself is toxic, she says it directly. Read it again. This is why I doubt your assessment of where feminists stand. I don't think this is a hard concept. If someone says "it's not that I dislike unhealthy pizza, it's that all pizza is unhealthy" then that strongly implies that most other people consider "healthy pizza" to exist. What part of th…
/r/MensRights15/01/21 11:57 PM
1

I think you should reread the OP and this thread, somewhere you've become turned around and missed important information. You seem to be arguing against the abstract idea of what a feminist is that you have in your head, rather than replying to me as an individual.
/r/MensRights15/01/21 11:53 PM
1

I think it's fairly well established that gender exists. I don't think an abstract claim like that does much to disprove it at all. You need something a lot more scientific.
/r/MensRights15/01/21 11:51 PM
1

Going the other way and holding all feminists accountable for what all other feminists say/do is definitely not ideal either. Especially when I think it's fairly clear that in the OP sexism amongst feminists is exactly the issue I was trying to address. "Oh you're a feminist? Well here's a copy pasta" is not productive.
/r/MensRights15/01/21 11:49 PM
1

I think this is a bit of a misinterpretation of what patriarchy means. It means the people in charge are men. The system itself is oppressive to both men and women, and primarily seeks to consolidate power and perpetuate itself. Whether or not men actually controlled the majority of power historically is actually something that has been hotly debated. There's obviously a lot more nuance then "we tallied up the genders of all world leaders in the past X hundred years and found men came out on top…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/01/21 05:26 AM
2

I've spent decades trying, and my direct and indirect experiences deny your claim. Clearly YMMV because my experience is the opposite. ​ Lise Wade You just quoted her saying that toxic masculinity does not imply that masculinity is toxic. That's the entire point of the quote. ​ Mostly they do know ... ... Utter bullshit, 'gender' is a feminist concept that literally bit the second wave feminists in the ass, they are now TERFs. ... If you let feminism define the terms of the discussion you have a…
/r/MensRights15/01/21 03:36 AM
1

It's made maleness into a pathology and as above, masculinity is apparently now an ideology. That's an extreme interpretation that I'm not sure even many feminist extremists agree with. ​ Toxic masculinity is when a man does what's expected of him by society and his family and GF/wife. Again, an extreme interpretation that I doubt many actually agree with. Implying "toxic masculinity" means "all masculinity is toxic" is about as incorrect as can be. Even if you don't know what the term is, doesn…
/r/MensRights15/01/21 02:11 AM
2

Well, glad you enjoyed it! ​ At the least, the more people who are expelled from their community for prioritizing men's issues over the sanctity of feminism, the more other men's communities can grow.
/r/MensRights15/01/21 02:04 AM
2

And not the other way around? It was a typo on my part but after millennia there's certainly a feedback loop. I'm sure a lot of males today hit the gym to fit in with masculine stereotypes at least! I hate to meme but, we live in a society. Of course social justice researchers and advocates will see things through the lens of society. I think focusing on the social constructs gives us the tools and methods to change them. Feminism is certainly about gender equality, but with a female focus.
/r/MensRights15/01/21 02:01 AM
3

To be clear, this is not an issue that appeared only in 2020. Discussion of the issue has been ongoing since at least 2015, but I'd have to check to be sure before that. I don't think that it's correct to say that gender disregards biology. To use a simple example, in the past men did the fighting so they are bigger and stronger. That's fine. But in 2021 that biology has shaped society for tens of thousands of years and has warped into such ideals as "men solve problems with violence". Even if w…
/r/MensRights14/01/21 05:24 AM
2

That's certainly a difficult question. It's undeniable that when you talk about women entering the workforce you need to talk about capitalism. Any kind of culture shift is driven by people actively trying to shift it and society changing, there's a feedback loop. In that way, feminism and modernity are inseparable. I would be inclined to say that the reason why the shift became economically viable was because of the culture shift driven by feminism, which in turn opened more opportunities for w…
/r/MensRights14/01/21 03:02 AM
2

You should reread my comments and OP if you think I said, or even vaguely implied, that "the many blatant sexists among feminists aren't real feminists".
/r/MensRights14/01/21 02:49 AM
1

Right, and prior to the establishment of gender theory the idea of man was what exactly? It was quite lose and something that you just knew. Establishing the idea that gender is a social construct and that being a man is distinct from being male helps us be able to talk about issues facing men. To build on your quotes, we can talk about how society rewards aggressive men (privilege), even if it's to the detriment of those men and to society (toxic masculinity). We can talk about how there are sy…
/r/MensRights14/01/21 02:36 AM
5

Oh, I see, thanks for the info. I don't have a problem with it being run by feminists, so long as criticizing feminism isn't a capital offense.
/r/MensRights14/01/21 02:26 AM
1

Sorry, like I said I was just answering that user's question. My stance is that women do a disproportionate amount of housework. Apologies if that was not clear.
/r/MensRights14/01/21 02:25 AM
2

I am not sure how you see explicitly being against something as excusing it. Equality does not mean blatant hatred of men. Many many feminists are bothered by hatred of men and actively oppose it. There are many feminists who do and say various things depending on their opinions. I don't feel like you are hearing what I'm saying and instead projecting opinions from your experience interacting with other feminists or watching videos of other feminists. I'm not telling you "well one MRA told me X …
/r/MensRights13/01/21 04:55 AM
1

Well, you can say that all you want but it's undoubtable that establishing the term TERF and developing the language needed to discuss the issue helped create the trans-inclusionary feminism we have today. I don't see why acknowledging that some feminists are anti-male could be a bad thing. I think you have misunderstood what the patriarchy is. While it is an important concept, it doesn't explain everything we see in society.
/r/MensRights13/01/21 04:52 AM
3

It's difficult to discuss "men's issues" without first establishing what "men" is and having a concept of how being a "man" interacts with society.
/r/MensRights13/01/21 04:49 AM
2

There are a lot of feminists out there, generalizing any sub group's opinions to encompass the whole groups is going to be flawed. Like I said, I, and the community that I was talking about, both agree with you in both accounts - that some feminists do anti-male things, and specifically on that Koss is anti-male. If you are just responding because I'm posting and you aren't going anywhere, then I think we can just let this chain die. Thanks for your interest, I appreciate your passion for justic…
/r/MensRights13/01/21 03:34 AM
3

I'm not sure I agree with that, but if your assertion is correct then naturally I agree with your conclusion.
/r/MensRights13/01/21 03:27 AM
3

Yep! Step 1 to fixing an issue is acknowledging the issue exists. Identifying and labelling MERFs is a clear indicator that the problematic behavior is being more widely considered to be problematic.
/r/MensRights13/01/21 03:26 AM
2

Sorry mate, I'm not sure what your point is or what you want from me. I think it's fairly widely acknowledge that those are not good things. Even MensLib lists Koss as a problematic feminist for example.
/r/MensRights13/01/21 03:19 AM
3

Uh, not so sure about that. TERFs are fairly universally disliked, and TERF-like behavior is usually an instant ban from most communities. I am not sure that would be the same if we had instead labelled trans-inclusionary feminists TIFs or something. I am happy that the term MERF is gaining traction though.
/r/MensRights13/01/21 03:03 AM
2

My point is that it's not really fair to dismiss everything built by feminism because you feel it has been misused in the past. Gender is a simple example of a powerful concept that can and should be leveraged when discussing men's issues.
/r/MensRights13/01/21 02:38 AM
3

Thanks for your support, I appreciate your post. ​ With regards to what you said about feminism, I'm not so certain. For example to say that "gender" isn't a useful construct when discussing male issues seems misguided.
/r/MensRights13/01/21 02:24 AM
1

Probably a lot, there are tons of different issues out there. I'm not really here to teach feminism just sharing my experience in men's issue focused feminist communities. Thanks for your interest though, you could probably visit the feminism sub or try google if you want to learn more.
/r/MensRights13/01/21 02:00 AM
1

My experience being a feminist for some decades.
/r/MensRights13/01/21 01:59 AM
2

Like I said, feminism isn't monolithic and I imagine very few people believe that reductive statement. Feminism has proven to be the most effective vehicle for progressing women's rights.
/r/MensRights13/01/21 01:58 AM
3

I'm not sure, I think feminists who are anti-sexist would be reluctant to label them as anything else because that would imply that the rest of feminists are sexist, right?
/r/MensRights13/01/21 01:54 AM
2

Agreed, but remember growing subs takes a lot of time, stick with it!
/r/MensRights13/01/21 01:52 AM
2

You don't think it's a problem that men work more hours than women?
/r/MensRights13/01/21 01:50 AM
2

I checked their profile and I think they are sincere. Certainly there are plenty of people who see feminism as the main barrier, if not the main cause, of men's issues.
/r/MensRights13/01/21 01:49 AM
2

AFAIK the studies I'm thinking of didn't have any obvious issues (eg not counting yard work or something). Broadly speaking any kind of gender inequality stems from gender roles. Like I said I was just replying to the other user's point, it's a highly nuanced issue with a lot of factors.
/r/MensRights13/01/21 01:47 AM
1

If you're interested in feminist issues I think you can find plenty of info about what feminists are advocating for online.
/r/MensRights13/01/21 01:44 AM
3

I can only speak for the studies I have read (and even then, it's been a while) which I do not believe were conducted by a feminist group. Would definitely be interested to read more studies on the subject, as this is one of the discussion points in modern feminism.
/r/MensRights12/01/21 08:12 AM
2

I believe the assumption is that most adults are in heterosexual relationships. It's been a while since I read the studies so I can't comment more than that..
/r/MensRights12/01/21 08:10 AM
1

I agree, the studies that show women doing more domestic labor also show men doing more paid work. However, the previous user was just asking for an example of women disproportionately suffering, so I gave one. I'm not that interested in trying to argue whether X hours of paid labor is more tiring than Y hours of chores.
/r/MensRights12/01/21 07:36 AM
6

Although I have not had the experience of talking to all the moderators, unfortunately those that I did interact with were not pleasant and did not seem to care for men's rights.
/r/MensRights12/01/21 07:35 AM
6

Thanks for the recommendations, I will check them out.
/r/MensRights12/01/21 06:38 AM
2

The previous user was just asking what disproportionately effects women. You can look up the stats that you are asking about, I'm not really interested in debating if X hours of employed labor is more taxing than Y hours of housework, I just provided an answer to the previous user's question.
/r/MensRights12/01/21 06:38 AM
3

Well, I understand why you advocate for ditching the label. Feminism isn't a monolithic movement and so most feminists are used to disregarding some parts of it (TERFs, MERFs, etc) while still identifying as a feminist. I don't think identifying with a group gives implicit approval for the actions of all members. Fundamentally I think feminism is a good movement despite some problems.
/r/MensRights12/01/21 06:29 AM
4

I agree, I think that's the difficulty. Many of my values align with feminism, but some of them don't. I think there are some fundamental differences between my opinion and the views held by the majority of those with power in feminism. Moreover, it's difficult to be in feminist communities that are anti-male to such a degree that makes it increasingly difficult for me to be a feminist.
/r/MensRights12/01/21 05:21 AM
2

Yes, absolutely, being drafted and forced to potentially die for your country (and at best giving up some amount of your time, in many countries years) is horrific.
/r/MensRights12/01/21 05:08 AM
5

Great work! Inability to address failures within feminism is the biggest problem facing feminist communities today. It's something many people are struggling with, so I'm glad other movements are being proactive about equality!
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/01/21 04:54 AM
3

It seems to me there are two separate issues here: Draft inequality Voting inequality With regards to the draft, I don't think anyone should be drafted, so it doesn't make sense for me to impose the draft on women. I think it should be removed for men. With regards to voting, I think everyone should get a vote, so it doesn't make sense to deny women the vote. Linking the two is completely arbitrary as of many hundreds of years ago, and is definitely not something that I think should be held as a…
/r/MensRights12/01/21 04:50 AM
0

AFAIK the studies take them into account, see here for summary: https://www.nsf.gov/discoveries/disc_images.jsp?cntn_id=111458
/r/MensRights12/01/21 04:46 AM
4

Ok? Are you trying to pick a fight with me or something mate?
/r/MensRights12/01/21 04:44 AM
4

Those issues are definitely salient but I think men's issues go back hundreds, thousands, millions of years before feminism. Maybe you can say that in recent history progress has been stymied X% by feminism, but the core issues existed before feminism was a concept.
/r/MensRights12/01/21 04:01 AM
1

Ok, why?
/r/MensRights12/01/21 03:59 AM
9

I appreciate your passion but I strongly believe in progress for both genders and non-binary people. I do not think that advocating men's rights should mean being against women's rights. Neither gender should suffer.
/r/MensRights12/01/21 03:58 AM
-4

Feminism is about advocacy for women's rights on the basis of equality, so I'm not sure how the question is relevant. But if you would like, an example of a modern feminist issue is division of domestic labor - typically women spend more time doing domestic chores than men.
/r/MensRights12/01/21 03:57 AM
1

Thanks, if possible neutral/non-MRA sources may be better to avoid discussion steering towards potential bias. Appreciate your time and help
/r/MensRights19/12/20 07:39 AM
1

I appreciate your passion mate, I just want some links to about the situation so I can start a discussion. I can't really do that with "look what a reddit user told me" or a 1 hour YT video. I agree that this is something to be worked on.
/r/MensRights19/12/20 07:14 AM
1

I could by more receptive to accepting your point, if you can find actual feminsit authors, academics, professors who share things you are claiming Like I said, I'm not knowledgably about that. All I know is how feminist circles that I am a part of function. I'd appreciate you not label that coffee shop feminism, which appears to be a way to dismiss the feminist community at large. I have already said I understand your point, so I don't think it's necessary to try and mock me, right?
/r/MensRights19/12/20 06:58 AM
1

Thanks for the info, do you have some links about the bill and the events you mentioned? I would be interested to share this around feminist circles and get some feedback.
/r/MensRights19/12/20 06:54 AM
1

I understand your point, I just don't agree with it.
/r/MensRights19/12/20 06:51 AM
1

Feminism does not accept that women are privileged. A few have talked about white women privelge etc but they deny the existence of female privelege I think this is incorrect, discussion of female privilege definitely exists, inherent in the concept of privilege is the idea that women have privilege.
/r/MensRights19/12/20 06:42 AM
1

Feminist are acting like men were going to college and booming doctors and women were denied Hey now, when did I ever say that? As per my previous post: " Be careful when you say "feminists will say X", because feminism is a big loose movement. I am sure some feminists say that, and I'm sure some say the opposite, and there are many who say anything in between. "
/r/MensRights19/12/20 06:40 AM
1

Sorry, not that knowledgably about celebrity feminists. That kind of hate against her is horrendous and inexcusable. Thanks for the video link, I will check it out when I have time!
/r/MensRights19/12/20 06:39 AM
1

Sounds like a fair if not slightly dated critique. Obviously these issues are well known and highly discussed. It was nice to read the article. A lot of the concerns are the same whether or not you are a feminist, so I guess it comes down to whether or not you think feminism can exist without the idea that "women are worse off than men" - IMO it can, and does, even though feminism is undeniably women-centric.
/r/MensRights19/12/20 06:31 AM
1

Well, gender came out of feminist academia. The only reason we can separate sex and gender is because of feminism right? And the language used to talk about the way that men are treated badly also came from feminism (eg toxic masculinity). So it's good to at least have a grasp of feminist concepts because then it can be used to explain what the problems are.
/r/MensRights10/12/20 09:14 AM
1

You don't think concepts like gender are valuable tools in any way? I am wondering if you think that the way society treats men, and the expectations society has of men are a problem.
/r/MensRights10/12/20 08:55 AM
1

Any particular examples? Do you think feminism has any value (eg gender roles, toxic masculinity, etc)?
/r/MensRights10/12/20 06:55 AM
1

Why do you say that?
/r/MensRights10/12/20 12:18 AM
2

I think it should, since they view women as more important to conserve/reduce harm for than men, which, if we’re looking at it historically, has been the view much of western society for a very very long time (see Male disposability) Well, certainly that's what it comes down to in the end isn't it? Gender roles encouraging certain perspectives on issues - perhaps prioritizing the issues of vulnerable, fragile, valuable females over those of stoic, tough, unyielding men. Regardless, I think this …
/r/MensRights08/12/20 08:15 AM
1

I’ve been trying to hammer down the fact that feminists in academia view the cause of female victims as more important than male victims of DV. I’m not sure if you were with me there but that’s what I’ve been reiterating this entire time. Looks like you lost me somewhere. This part of the discussion came from using Trudeau as an example of a feminist doing harm to males, to which I argued that the harm didn't really exist and I believe you argued that this was "harm by neglect" rather than direc…
/r/MensRights08/12/20 05:26 AM
1

Advocating is one thing, but feminist academics are expressively saying that the cause of female victims is more important than male victims! I think we have shifted somewhat from what we were originally talking about (helping female DV victims implying male DV victims are less important). I am sure there are many feminist academics who feel that way, if only because they are feminist if not female. ​ This is not necessarily true. Well, like I said, I'm not talking about majority, let alone over…
/r/MensRights08/12/20 01:19 AM
1

Likewise, 2 and 4 are both numbers. But 4 is more than 2, and conversely, 2 is less than 4. That is all I'm saying. That's the part I disagree with though. Advocating for X doesn't mean you don't care about Y, or care less about it, etc. The point I am making is that individual beliefs have little impact on individual behaviors. So changing individual beliefs doesn't really matter, changing individual behavior does. I am not so sure about that. Public opinion has largely allowed feminism to make…
/r/MensRights07/12/20 06:04 AM
1

Believing that X is more important than Y and has more value than Y means that you believe Y is less important than X. I think this is a strange thing to say. It's basically tu quoque. Someone says DV against women is bad, and you take that to imply they don't care about starving children in Africa. It's nonsense. it frames the problem as a broad societal issue rather than a broad, structural, and legal issue that it is. I don't see a difference. Society encompasses structural and legal construc…
/r/MensRights07/12/20 02:50 AM
1

On what basis is this assessment wrong? You are making a judgement based on your experience, I am too. I don't see a way to prove either way or the other tbh. they are implying that men do not deserve to have their treatment highlighted. I understand what you are saying I just disagree that it's right to prescribe intent based on the effect. You go on to say that at the end of the section, but that statement isn't congruent with the rest of your post. It seems a bit reductive to call it a “media…
/r/MensRights04/12/20 03:56 AM
1

And who are these groups putting pressure on him? Why would those groups be satisfied that he’s putting one gender over the other even when the other gender is afflicted by greater suffering? I think the intent of these groups is being misinterpreted. They are pushing for better treatment of women - something we can both agree is good, I'm sure - but that doesn't imply they want worse treatment of men. Like I said, feminism was started to advocate for women. The feminists that care about men’s i…
/r/MensRights04/12/20 12:33 AM
1

The majority is not taking action against them, it's not calling them out for heinous viewpoints nor is it putting equal spotlight on predominantly men's issues. That minority has the power and influence and uses it to neglect/dismiss/minimize issues that predominantly affect men. I think they are getting called out, but like I said they should be called out much more. Sometimes people defend these people as a reaction not necessarily because they agree with them, and I think that's wrong. Also,…
/r/MensRights03/12/20 08:42 AM
0

The problem is these bad actors are the minority. They receive a lot of attention from both sides because of their controversial views, and that gives them visibility. Feminism doesn't elect its leaders like the US elects its president, and it isn't a small movement that can easily oust problematic members like MRA. We are talking about an international lose movement with hundreds of millions if no billions of advocates. By and large, those advocates are not doing bad things, and even the bad on…
/r/MensRights03/12/20 03:31 AM
1

I don't agree with that assertion, I think privilege is more often used correctly but the implication isn't well understood. That is, when people hear someone talk about "male privilege" the urge is to jump in with "well in this situation they don't have privilege, and look here women have privilege too" which derails the discussion into reactionary jabs. Obviously the first person doesn't want to talk about other topics, and the second person feels defensive, which doesn't lead anywhere good. M…
/r/MensRights02/12/20 04:01 AM
1

Where I think it falls short is that it doesn’t say much about oppression and privilege dynamics within identities. Well yeah, that's not within the scope of intersectionality. You aren't wrong, but it's like saying mathematics falls short when talking about psychology - yes, but that's not what it's about. ​ The shortcoming is that it doesn’t really explore the fact that being a woman is a huge privilege in many contexts and being a man is a huge disadvantage in others. I think broadly speaking…
/r/MensRights02/12/20 02:23 AM
2

But the fact is the definition of patriarchy is: Keep in mind, there's more to it than that, even look at the wiki article describing patriarchy in feminist theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarchy#Feminist_theory There's a lot going on, and it's way more nuanced than "men have power and women don't". ​ My primary issue is that when you expand the definition of power to be more holistic, you start seeing that defining current western society that way is problematic. Absolutely agreed, th…
/r/MensRights01/12/20 07:57 AM
1

This is my problem with this construction of the word. That may be so, but that's the way the term was constructed. Yes, the term has a narrow focus, but that's just what it means. I'm not saying other issues aren't important, just explaining the definition of patriarchy. It seems to me like you are saying not so much "patriarchy doesn't exist" or "patriarchy isn't a problem" it's "there are other power structures to consider" and "there are other problems we need to be aware of", does that soun…
/r/MensRights01/12/20 06:12 AM
1

The issues you have raised are all really, valid, important, and urgent issues; systemic bias in the education system, justice system, societal ideas about domestic violence, resources for vulnerable men, harmful stereotypes, etc, I fully agree. ​ This is why I think "Patriarchy" is a bit outdated and is a huge oversimplification because it clearly ignores more subtle forms of power that women have over men. This is the part that is the problem. Remember, "the patriarchy" just means that the peo…
/r/MensRights01/12/20 03:52 AM
1

I'm not sure which one you are referring to, so I'll try answer all of what I said. "The patriarchy" means "the people at the top of the hierarchy are men" not "all men are at the top of the hierarchy" - this is a common misinterpretation. Men and women both suffer under patriarchy. "Privilege" means "in a situation, people with this trait are treated better" not "in all situations, people with this trait are treated better" - again, a common misinterpretation. "Men are good at logical tasks and…
/r/MensRights30/11/20 01:48 AM
1

Please read my OP, I think you will find your comment has already been answered there! ​ I am not sure if linking TheOnion is irony or a mistake!
/r/MensRights19/11/20 02:46 AM
1

I appreciate your comments! That said, I won't be replying to this chain any longer. Like I said, explaining how academia works from the ground up is too much for me, so I don't have anything else to add. I encourage you to do your own research!
/r/MensRights19/11/20 02:45 AM
1

I think you should read my post instead of just the title! Thanks!!
/r/MensRights19/11/20 02:43 AM
1

Please check the OP as I have already addressed this, and it even has a description of toxic masculinity so you can understand it easier. Thanks!
/r/MensRights19/11/20 02:42 AM
1

I'm fairly sure that this is backwards in this case. The term "toxic masculinity" was an instance of a term originating online and being adopted by feminist academia. Sorry, you are misinformed. Any comment on the lack of enthusiasm for "toxic femininity"? Whenever it gets used, there's a lot of offense-taking to it. Which is weird, considering that any offense taken to "toxic masculinity" is sometimes called "male fragility" and laughed-off as stupid whining manbabies and so on. Any comment on …
/r/MensRights19/11/20 02:41 AM
1

Well, you are agreeing with me still, but you added a little tidbit to the end of that didn't you :)
/r/MensRights19/11/20 02:39 AM
1

FYI feminism also has no membership, no dues, no membership card, posters get downvoted and even banned in feminist subreddits. Maybe learning that will change your perspective a bit! It's not good to have an opinion based on ignorance. ​ As for the rest of your post, please re-read the OP as it will answer your questions!
/r/MensRights19/11/20 02:38 AM
1

You say "all feminists believe X" because you have talked to some over the years and asked them 2 questions. I am telling you I am a feminist and I do not believe X. When I say I am suspicious of your methodology you say "wow you are discrediting me" instead of explaining. What do you want me to think? From the start you are trying to tell me what I think, and then you refuse to even discuss why you think otherwise. What did you expect me to think after hearing this? What would you think if I sa…
/r/MensRights19/11/20 02:35 AM
1

what actions do you claim I "prescribe" to you? You have done so many times "Like, the entire feminist movement [doesn't care about men's issues]? The feminist movement literally blames all men's supposed issues on other men." "feminism says that all of men's problems are caused by other men." "But don't let quibbles like that bother you, no feminist has ever been bothered by the most blatant feminist sexism or hatred" "You don't seem bothered all that much. You fob everything off as unimportant…
/r/MensRights19/11/20 02:32 AM
1

That was the topic when you replied to my comment. Sorry if the context was lost. ​ Is it OK to love feminism no matter what it says and does? Now you are being silly.
/r/MensRights19/11/20 02:07 AM
1

Sorry, like I said, explaining how academia works from the ground up is too much for me, I wouldn't even know where to start. Like I said, there are likely others that can explain to you the process better.
/r/MensRights19/11/20 02:06 AM
1

Yes, but the reason you are giving for why it should remains nonsensical, arbitrary, and impractical. Which is the point. Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear. The reason is so long as an idea of "masculine" exists it forces men to conform to this idea, and punishes men who do not conform. ​ Yes one COULD change the meaning of every single descriptive word in the english language to mean nothing. But you cannot give a single remotely intelligible reason why anyone SHOULD do such a thing. Absolutely, wh…
/r/MensRights18/11/20 03:09 AM
1

Ok, I will try and explain as simply as possible. Sex refers to male or female depending on your chromosomes. For example, if your chromosomes are XX you are a woman, if they are XY you are a man. Gender refers to social ideas, not biological factors. For example, the idea "men wear pants" and "women wear dresses". Gender loosely corresponds to sex, but this is a traditional idea. Gender identity refers to how someone identifies with a gender. For example, there is nothing physically stopping a …
/r/MensRights18/11/20 02:53 AM
1

Claiming that "they are the real and only feminism" is a fallacy called "no true Scotsman". I encourage you to look it up. ​ The rest of your post is a fallacy we call a "strawman" - my views are being misrepresented to make them easier to attack. If you read carefully you can see the things you are claiming are not things I have said - actually they are often things I explicitly disagree with.
/r/MensRights18/11/20 02:45 AM
1

You have a bizarre way of agreeing with me, it looks/feels like you are arguing with me, but you make the same point. Sorry if I'm reading into your posts too much, just feels strange to me.
/r/MensRights18/11/20 02:43 AM
1

In a movement of hundreds of millions, there will be some who I disagree with. Keep that in mind, because there will come a time where an MRA member does something wrong and you will be standing where I am saying "I don't agree with them and they should be kicked out" and your opponent will say "you should leave the movement instead".
/r/MensRights18/11/20 02:42 AM
1

Friend, I don't want to discredit your many years of hard work, but I am not convinced you have surveyed a sufficient number of people, nor do I think these questions are exact enough (clearly the intent was to trick the interviewees). Regardless, here I am standing in the face of you statement.
/r/MensRights18/11/20 02:41 AM
1

I think the idea of "academia has no checks or balances" is a bit too broad for this thread. If you are interested I think there are probably subreddits on academia that can explain the processes to you. Sorry I can't explain further.
/r/MensRights18/11/20 02:39 AM
1

Experience
/r/MensRights18/11/20 02:38 AM
1

Sorry friend, if you came to a thread about feminism and expected the primary focus to be on Cassie Jaye . I have said I do not agree with the views you prescribe to me, I have said that I do not agree with the actions you prescribe to me, if you can't accept that then I don't know what else I can say.
/r/MensRights18/11/20 02:37 AM
1

It is strange to me to say that disinformation only exists within feminism. Sorry but I don't see any logic in this claim. It's ok to hate feminism, but let's be realistic.
/r/MensRights18/11/20 02:33 AM
1

No, sorry if it is not clear but I am not saying that in the slightest. With regard to "gender" I am talking about about things that are NOT physiological. A great example of this is the idea that men wear pants and women wear dresses. This is 100% socialized and 0% genetic.
/r/MensRights18/11/20 02:32 AM
1

Can I not argue against Trickle-down economics as I am not an Economist? Can I not disagree with the Fox News 'experts' if I don't have the same training they have? Absolutely, but I believe this is a different issue to having academics defend their work from non academics, no? Your disagreement may well exist, but that doesn't have a whole lot of effect on academia does it? ​ Do I have to get four years in an education system biased against me for my gender to criticise it? Why are these course…
/r/MensRights12/11/20 08:41 AM
1

However by your logic this would apply to almost every word. This is a sentiment that I agree with. I think our disagreement on prescriptivism vs descriptivism is kind of the core of our disagreement. In my opinion language can change, so can society. ​ People feel the need to act certain ways specifically because they have certain chromosomes. We are talking about things like "men wear pants, women wear dresses" that are absolutely not because of chromosomes. Sex is biological, gender is social…
/r/MensRights12/11/20 08:27 AM
1

Ok, I think I see what your point is. Let's start from the start to make sure I've gotten it right. The male sex are those with a Y chromosome. So far so good? The masculine gender is how males are expected by society to act (society doesn't treat males and females the same, eg men wear pants, women were skirts). Still with me? Now, there isn't anything preventing males from wearing skirts, but society will punish them for doing so. I think up to this point we are seeing eye to eye, but the next…
/r/MensRights11/11/20 07:42 AM
0

Do you really think that "all mainstream feminists do not believe sexism against men does not exist" is a defensible point? I am not that into celebrity feminism, but I can think of at least one off the top of my head.
/r/MensRights11/11/20 06:49 AM
1

Rest assured I do not think that mate. I think in the OP I was fairly clear that I think men are absolutely oppressed and that privilege is something that everyone has in some form. ​ Sorry if that wasn't clear.
/r/MensRights11/11/20 06:47 AM
1

On nice, it's rare to see someone from the west coast on the internet! Do you follow local politics much? What did you think about what Basil said the other day?
/r/MensRights11/11/20 06:46 AM
1

Friend, please slow down and read carefully. I explicitly said that gender is not a good concept for that EXACT reason.
/r/MensRights11/11/20 06:45 AM
1

I do not think that academics need to defend their work from non academics. I used to work in a field of STEM academia, and I think it would be difficult for someone outside the field to even understand the foundations that my work laid on. Do you think that other fields should go through the same process? I mean, SCIgen lead to over 100 known published papers, more than 25x the Grievance studies affair lead to.
/r/MensRights11/11/20 06:44 AM
0

Erin Pizzey I haven't, I looked her up, seems like she's doing great work. I'm not sure what part of my post her existence invalids though, so sorry I can't understand your post any further than that.
/r/MensRights11/11/20 06:40 AM
0

No, I'm talking about individual men who have been sexually assaulted who either do not report it or do not even believe they have been assaulted.
/r/MensRights11/11/20 06:39 AM
1

I'm not sure what this is reference too either. There are millions of feminists, yet there are only a handful of quotes there. There's no question that things like SCUM are sexist. It feels like you are saying MLK is invalid because Malcom X is a black supremacist. It's not logical.
/r/MensRights11/11/20 06:38 AM
1

Again, sorry, I'm not sure what you are referring to.
/r/MensRights11/11/20 06:36 AM
1

Sorry, I'm not sure what this is in reference to.
/r/MensRights11/11/20 06:34 AM
1

I said my grandmother was not allowed to STUDY science, not that she wasn't allowed to work.
/r/MensRights11/11/20 06:34 AM
1

Yes, these are the exact kinds of issues that I think need to be addressed.
/r/MensRights11/11/20 06:32 AM
1

I'm not that into historical feminism, but thanks for the link I will look into it.
/r/MensRights11/11/20 04:53 AM
1

The number of hateful people is a small minority and is always opposed.
/r/MensRights11/11/20 04:51 AM
1

For example, feminism wrote laws to put male victims of women's violence in jail. As a feminist I'm sure you think that's great. No, I do not think that is great. I thought I was clear in the OP that I think sexist elements do not belong in feminism. you obviously don't give a single flying fuck about the very real very intentional damage feminism does to men. Again, I thought I was clear in the OP. I am very interested in men's issues and very much against any damage done towards men.
/r/MensRights11/11/20 04:50 AM
1

Sir, I'm a man, but I appreciate the sentiment.
/r/MensRights11/11/20 04:48 AM
1

I am not sure if I have said it in this thread, but I think all intersectionality calculators are bogus. There is no real way to quantify those numbers, it's nonsense.
/r/MensRights11/11/20 04:43 AM
1

As I said in the OP I am a men's lib advocate, there is actually an active men's lib subreddit you can visit on reddit. There are a great many feminists interested in men's issues.
/r/MensRights11/11/20 04:42 AM
1

Friend, this is not my analysis, this is existing analysis probably made by those same great many thoughtful people you are talking about. I was just clarifying the point that was misread above, it is good to see that we are in agreement though.
/r/MensRights11/11/20 04:41 AM
1

I am not sure that should be seen as an issue with feminism, rather an issue with communities. Disinformation is spread everywhere, I am sure there is even some here too.
/r/MensRights11/11/20 04:40 AM
1

Ah ok, I'm not sure what it has to do with domestic violence but I know what you are saying is true.
/r/MensRights11/11/20 04:39 AM
1

Everyone is disadvantaged somehow. But all you have to do is take up being more masculine, if it bothers you. If you don't want to do that, then it's on you. I think this is really where we differ in opinions. Trying to fix sexism by confirming to sexist ideals it not productive to me. IMO if a man wants to do something that is not masculine, they should be able to without penalty. Your issue is that people have actually hold standards of behavior. Correct, toxic masculinity isn't an "issue" it'…
/r/MensRights11/11/20 04:38 AM
1

You can't define 'gender' by referencing a term containing the word 'gender'. If you don't know what 'gender' means you don't know what 'gender identity' means either. You are mixing up two concepts. Gender is not defined using "gender identity". Gender identify is defined using "gender". What construct? Construct of what? Masculinity / femininity, abstract ideas. Xi isn't a gender, it's a pronoun. Society does not know someone's sex, all it knows is their apparent gender. No one is going around…
/r/MensRights11/11/20 04:35 AM
1

Well yeah, sorry I should have been more precise with what I said, this is correct: "The problem is not that men are penalized for being 'male, they are penalized for not being 'masculine'."
/r/MensRights11/11/20 04:32 AM
1

Friend, I just explicitly said that is a bad thing.
/r/MensRights11/11/20 04:31 AM
1

I can definitely agree with that mate, feels like we wasted the last few decades on shitty research methodology.
/r/MensRights11/11/20 04:30 AM
1

I'm not sure you are hearing what I'm saying. I, a feminist, am not saying all men's problems are caused by other men. I, a feminist, am definitely bothered by all kinds of sexism as I have said from the start of this thread.
/r/MensRights11/11/20 04:29 AM
1

I mean, I'm saying the exact same thing, so I don't think I'm ignoring it, let alone arguing against it. Just because you can think of an instance of disadvantage, doesn't mean that no advantages can possibly exist. Does that make sense? I don't like soy sauce on my ice-cream, but that doesn't mean it isn't good on sushi.
/r/MensRights11/11/20 04:28 AM
1

"Could it have happened already?" - Well, obviously I don't think so :) "What do you think about 'privilege' as I have defined it?" - Well, again, obviously I think it's incorrect. But if we go with it, then your conclusions are basically correct; it applies to rich, but doesn't make sense when talking about gender, it limits our ability to talk about the non-dominant class, it creates strife between the groups. I don't think your logic is the problem, just the starting point. "What would you sa…
/r/MensRights10/11/20 09:40 AM
-1

:/
/r/MensRights10/11/20 09:13 AM
-1

Yes, I already said that in my post. There are a lot of problems and I outlined what the cause was, but I am not sure it will be productive to delve deeper, I think it will waste both of our times. If you insist on continuing discussion, I can try my best to address your points one at a time, but it's just going to be a case of "that's now what that means, here is a link to wiki" over and over again, which I suspect you will reject as not being representative of real feminism. ​ Your insistence …
/r/MensRights10/11/20 08:09 AM
1

Yup, I do not think that is a good thing. Silencing those who are less privileged is not an effective way to "combat structural inequalities".
/r/MensRights10/11/20 08:04 AM
1

I think you are talking about certain specific feminists (maybe you have some in mind as examples). I am a feminist and I do not say that, not even wiki says that. You are talking about a small very vocal subset of feminists.
/r/MensRights10/11/20 08:03 AM
0

Sexism is sex based prejudice, while misogyny is prejudice towards women, toxic femininity describes an aspect of femininity that is problematic. These are all gender-related, it's not correct to say that toxic femininity and misogyny are interchangeable. For example, the idea that women are weak is toxic femininity, but it's not misogyny. On the flip side, if someone sexually harasses a woman, that may be sexist but it's not toxic femininity. When society's idea of what a man is involves being …
/r/MensRights10/11/20 08:00 AM
1

No worries, I was being sincere :)
/r/MensRights10/11/20 07:52 AM
-1

That feels kind of bad faith. People are different to a movement, and a movement is different to an ideology.
/r/MensRights10/11/20 07:52 AM
1

Just to be clear, it's not that you don't think that society treats men and women differently, it's just that you think any discussion on the topic is a waste of time? I feel like before someone makes that lifeboat app, it would be good if that problem could be identified at the very least. But to continue the example, the reason why I think women are prioritized is because society views women as helpless, and men as powerful. Great, you fixed the problem with lifeboats, but how about the proble…
/r/MensRights10/11/20 07:31 AM
1

Hm, not sure what you mean. Privilege is easily definable and not at all up in the air. I have no idea what it has to do with the court of law, are you suggesting you want to cash in privilege to commit crime? I am confused. Privilege is part of a vocabulary we can use to analyze the kinds of rules and regulations that create those situations - blaming privilege does not make any sense. That's like saying "I blame being hungry for my starvation" - it makes zero sense. Identifying how people that…
/r/MensRights10/11/20 07:26 AM
1

I agree with everything past that first comma. Would you mind explaining what you think is dishonest about feminism?
/r/MensRights10/11/20 07:21 AM
1

Gender and gender identity are not synonyms. Gender identity is how people experience gender, where as gender is the constructs as a whole. It's a social construct because society determines what constitutes a gender. Yes, gender theory came out of feminist academia, but it is describing the phenomenon where men are expected to behave one way, and women another. Men absolutely are disadvantaged for not being masculine, here's a short article: https://hbr.org/2018/10/how-men-get-penalized-for-str…
/r/MensRights10/11/20 07:20 AM
0

Sorry, I actually don't follow prominent feminists so I wouldn't know who to say. I would be interested if someone else found someone though, so tag me if you get a reply.
/r/MensRights10/11/20 07:16 AM
1

I think there are several problems with what you said, you say that feminism emerges from human cognitive bias which perceives women as victims and men as perpetrators, or I would phrase it as women as needing protecting and men as powerful. I think at this point you stop and say that is the root cause, but I think we can go a step further. The problem isn't the bias, it's the cause of the bias: gender roles. Thousands if not millions of years ago, it was necessary for males to protect females -…
/r/MensRights10/11/20 07:14 AM
1

At what point would you say that the movement is hateful and at what point would you say it is corrupt? That's a good question, I don't know the answer. ​ The concept of privilege in modern feminism is the idea that the dominant class receives unearned benefits because they are part of the dominant class. Sorry but I have to stop you right there. Privilege just means advantage. It's not about dominant class or not. There are privileges associated with every aspect from rich to poor, black or whi…
/r/MensRights10/11/20 07:01 AM
-1

It's not a common term, but toxic femininity has been addressed even in very public forums. Here is one example: https://www.thedrum.com/news/2016/03/31/2014-always-unveils-groundbreaking-girl-campaign From the start, feminism tackled the female gender role, deconstructing it and attacking toxicity. Only recently has feminism taken more notice of men's issues, and found the same analogue. I think that's probably why it isn't as commonly used.
/r/MensRights10/11/20 06:46 AM
1

I appreciate your frustration but I just said that I am a feminist interested in men's issues. I am sure that there were a number of feminists who did attack Cassie Jaye, but I am sure there is an order of magnitude or two more who have never heard of them.
/r/MensRights10/11/20 06:44 AM
1

I'm not a big movie watcher but I appreciate the suggestion, thanks mate.
/r/MensRights10/11/20 06:42 AM
0

Well, these terms came out of academia, and when they are defined it's usually part of a paper so the meaning of the term is clear. Then the term moves over to everyday language, and it becomes a bit more difficult to understand for people who do not have the context. The unfortunate part of this piece of jargon is that it's easily misinterpreted as "masculinity is toxic", and some people who have heard the term decide to use it that way, further muddying the water. I am not sure your term is mo…
/r/MensRights10/11/20 06:41 AM
1

Unfortunately the same thing happens with even well known journals (not to mention the reproducibility crisis): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCIgen#Prominent_results
/r/MensRights10/11/20 06:35 AM
-1

Ah I get you, so the "femin-" in "feminisms" is not appropriate since we aren't just talking about women now? I tend to agree, but the name has been established for too long to change it. Regardless, the social movements that tackle non-female issues are separate anyway, even if they use feminist theory, so in practice I don't think it's a huge problem.
/r/MensRights10/11/20 06:34 AM
1

As far as I know, throughout western history, out of the people who were educated, most were male. I think framing this as a gender problem is probably not useful, since it is likely to be a class problem. I'm not a historian, but I imagine the educated people were likely the rich ones. However, certainly within living history women were excluded from certain kinds of schooling, my grandmother was not allowed to study science (no universities in my state would take women to study science) despit…
/r/MensRights10/11/20 06:33 AM
1

Sex (male or female) seems to be the strongest factor. IMO that is a big problem. Surely wealth or class would be a far stronger factor. Viewing problems through a gendered lens is useful, but we definitely need to be mindful of having that lens warp our view. And what do you mean by 'privilege'? 'Privilege' just means 'advantage'. Society treats different people differently, sometimes that means they have an advantage. For example, if a woman is talking to a kid, people won't bat an eye, if a m…
/r/MensRights10/11/20 06:21 AM
1

By this logic, we should not define anything, can't value anything or have ideals. Hm, I guess I'm not following. If we define "toaster" as something that toasts bread, that's ok because we aren't going to hurt the feelings of toaster ovens. We are talking about gender here, real men are being hurt by the concept of "male": https://hbr.org/2018/10/how-men-get-penalized-for-straying-from-masculine-norms
/r/MensRights10/11/20 06:11 AM
1

The problem we have is the individuals who have taken the feminism issue too far and decided to take it past equality and turn it into a power grab Yup. ​ By your very definition, arguing or discussing the concept of privilege is pointless because of how broad and undefined it is. Not quite, a statement like "men are privileged" is useless, but you can discuss it in specific contexts, for example "when the ship is sinking, women and children have the privilege of being given priority when assign…
/r/MensRights10/11/20 03:30 AM
1

Masculinity doesn't quite work that. Society has constructed an idea of what men are. That idea has some good points (men are strong) and some bad points (men are violent). This leads to a few different problems: Some parts of masculinity are good (sometimes called wholesome masculinity), and some are bad (sometimes called toxic masculinity). Men who do not tick all the right boxes are seen as "less manly" and disadvantaged by society. Men feel that they have to be a certain way to fit in, regar…
/r/MensRights10/11/20 03:23 AM
1

Sorry, I was asleep, I'm Australian and I posted this at the end of the work day.
/r/MensRights10/11/20 03:15 AM
-1

That's a great post, to me it sums up the problems that people generally have with feminism, as well as those with MRA. Would it be fair to say that you have felt victimized by individual feminists and feminism as a movement? I feel like you have probably suffered as a result of hateful people. The post you linked is based on misinterpretation of feminist concepts, either by yourself or by feminists who you have interacted with who were misusing those terms either accidentally or maliciously. Fo…
/r/MensRights10/11/20 03:15 AM
1

It's undoubtable that hateful elements within feminism are corrupt. Some people who have power are abusing it, absolutely. Do you find the concept of privilege to be flawed, or you just don't like MacIntosh? One example of toxic masculinity is the idea that men are big, strong, and violent. This leads to hugely disproportionate injuries and deaths for men during robberies. Oppression of men is not a widely discussed concept in feminism, but there absolutely is discussion about things like toxic …
/r/MensRights10/11/20 03:00 AM
1

I'm interested in why you say that. In feminism privilege just means "advantage". Eg women have the privilege of being among the first to get in lifeboats when ships are sinking, men have the privilege of being assumed to be better fighters. Part of the academia surrounding privilege is unpacking these privileges, figuring out why they happen and what the consequences are. Following on from the examples above, women are first on the lifeboats because they are assumed to be physically weak and al…
/r/MensRights10/11/20 02:54 AM
1

As feminist jargon, gender refers to the gender identity, in the west the abstract idea of what "men" and "women" are - how they act, how they look, what they like, etc. It's not a classification system, it's a type of social construct. In the west that means something like "men are big and strong, they are the providers, they are stoic" and "women are delicate and beautiful, they take care of the home, they are idealistic." The problem with gender is that it gives advantage to those who fit wit…
/r/MensRights10/11/20 02:49 AM
1

You're right but I can't edit titles :/
/r/MensRights10/11/20 02:44 AM
1

These kinds of calculators are ridiculous. Trying to compare whether a "partially PoC, slightly cis, younger mostly female" is more or less privileged than a "generally able-bodied, lower than averaged educated, half-Jew" is complete nonsense. While you can put a number on all these factors, the numbers are garbage. That said, to loop back to what the previous poster asked "why is gender the 'primary axis'?" - it's just because feminism is about gender so intersectionality is about how other sys…
/r/MensRights10/11/20 02:43 AM
1

Misandry in feminism is endemic. It's accepted. Nobody speaks out. I basically agree with this. Hateful people need to be ejected from the movement, not defended because of their identity. I don't agree that nobody speaks out, I think there are quite a few people who speak out, but they are challenging the status quo so it's difficult. Feminism is its own field, so there are counterbalances within, the same way that psychology doesn't need an external counterbalance, neither do gender studies. T…
/r/MensRights10/11/20 02:35 AM
0

I disagree with a lot of what you said. Like I said in my post above, everyone has privilege, and everyone lacks some privileges. Toxic masculinity exists, toxic femininity exists. Women are oppressed, men are oppressed too. Saying that "men" or "women" are the problem is missing the point, both of those are just social constructs, so essentially it's society which has the problem - society as a whole is abusing men.
/r/MensRights10/11/20 02:29 AM
1

May I ask why I lost you at intersectionality?
/r/MensRights10/11/20 02:26 AM
0

I agree, like I said I have seen hate towards males from feminists many many times, probably on a daily basis. IMO this shouldn't be tolerated from within the feminist community, hate isn't a part of feminism and we shouldn't be protecting hateful people just because they are females.
/r/MensRights10/11/20 02:25 AM
3

I agree 100% with what you just said, but I think I have been misinterpreted. Sorry, I guess the meaning wasn't clear since I was trying to be succinct, let me requote the sentence and explain. Gender refers to the way society expects people to act based on their sex, obviously men can act however they want so the entire concept is flawed. The male gender construct says that men are "strong", but in real life not all men are strong. Gender says men are a certain way, but on reality that doesn't …
/r/MensRights10/11/20 02:18 AM
1

That's understandable, there is often a huge void between feminism's stated purpose and how people who claim to be feminists act. It's hard to stay positive against endless negativity. I'm hoping for a future where feminists in power use their privileged position to aid those without, and feminists without power support disadvantaged non-females in all situations. Good luck to us both mate.
/r/MensRights10/11/20 02:12 AM
-1

I appreciate the reply, I can see you have a lot of passion on the subject which I admire! What do you think of feminist academia? Do you think its research into developing ideas of gender, privilege, etc are useful? ​ ...once you strip masculinity of its toxic components, can you name one remaining trait which is not a gender-neutral characteristic? I have yet to receive a good answer to this question. Good question. I actually believe in gender abolition, the idea that all gender is inherently…
/r/MensRights10/11/20 02:09 AM
1

No deforestation is good, but palm oil is actually THE most efficient oil crop. I know that's not saying much for the orangutans, but just be careful with painting all palm oil as bad. Focus on the deforestation. I've seen orangutans in the wild, it's horrible to think I could be one of the last generations to do so.
/r/MensRights09/11/20 07:25 AM
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

© TheRedArchive 2026. All rights reserved.
created by /u/dream-hunter