flimflam_machine Archive

Upvotes	Title	Category	Author	Subreddit	Date (UTC)

Upvotes	Comment on	Subreddit	Date (UTC)
44	Women at Google were so upset over memo citing biological differences that they skipped work, ironically confirming the stereotype by getting super-emotional and calling in sick over a man saying something they didn't like. 🤦🤦 🤷¯\_(ツ)_/¯🤷 Modern day feminism leaves women completely helpless and fully dependent on external authority. There is a school of thought that the trend you mention is society-wide, rather than just happening to women. We've moved from a society in which we sorted out minor disagreements between ourselves to one in which we expect authorities to somehow deal with every personal gripe (that may be good or bad, I don't know).	/r/MensRights	09/08/17 06:41 PM
1	CMV: Cheating is just as “bad” when men do it as when women do Who's lying? You should own up to an affair if you're asked.	/r/PurplePillDebate	02/01/17 08:58 PM
1	CMV: Cheating is just as “bad” when men do it as when women do Why not then have an open relationship instead of cheating? Not everyone can handle the emotional strain.	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/12/16 09:06 PM
1	CMV: Cheating is just as “bad” when men do it as when women do I really taking about situations in which it's been established that the sexual problems are not fixable so the options are (i) cheat discreetly, or (ii) leave. If a person has those options then it's pretty easy for them to rationalise an affair as the lesser of two evils if their main relationship has non-sexual value. And if a wife isn't fucking her husband regularly, I can guarantee you there is something wrong. She isn't "ok". What is your evidence that every woman in the world wants sex wi…	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/12/16 06:40 PM
1	CMV: Cheating is just as “bad” when men do it as when women do Thanks, I should clarify that the morality of cheating is not inherently affected by sex. The intention to cheat to maintain a relationship is less harmful than cheating to end a relationship, regardless of who does it. If you do get caught then, of course, serious harm can be done to the relationship. People presumably feel that the risk is justified.	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/11/16 04:51 PM
3	CMV: Cheating is just as “bad” when men do it as when women do I watched this Ted talk the other day in which a (female) marriage/sex therapist said: "Men cheat to stay in a sexless marriage; women cheat to leave it." [I neither endorse nor reject the above, it's just the take of an expert. The following contains generalisations] Your Myths 1 and 5 therefore seem slightly off. Men don't fundamentally cheat for "strange" in happy marriages, they cheat in order to maintain their equilibrium so that they can maintain a relationship that is "mostly happy" i.e.,…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/11/16 01:20 PM
1	What does it mean to be privileged or oppressed? Its not HRs job to prove a candidate has X property, its up to the candidate to convince HR. But it is up to HR to prove that a candidate has an undesirable quality or that they don't have a necessary quality, if they want to deny them a job in favour of an apparently equally qualified candidate, and they have to prove that of the individual, not just that the individual is more likely to have/not have that quality due to their race/age/sex etc. if you wank in stinking of alcohol youll be discri…	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/11/16 07:56 AM
1	What does it mean to be privileged or oppressed? OK so you know how people always say women get lighter sentences for committing the same crimes as men? I've never committed a crime. That privilege doesn't exist for me, so therefore I guess it doesn't exist at all. A thing does exist even though you and I as individuals may not be directly affected by it. This is known in the manosphere as solipsism. Thanks for the sarcasm. You're talking around an answer to my overall question though. If it's possible to be a member of a privileged group and …	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/11/16 07:28 PM
1	What does it mean to be privileged or oppressed? The privilege is still there isn't it? Short men are still facing discrimination, aren't they? The tall man can still take advantage of this privilege if he chooses, can't he? But if a white man does want to run for political office, he has an advantage in being a white male as the place he's starting from. So a person can have a privilege that has zero influence on their life? You can't be more specific than that? Apologies I though several examples would spring to mind. For example, I think mo…	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/11/16 04:30 PM
1	What does it mean to be privileged or oppressed? TL;DR the following: I still don't see an effective synthesis of notions of privilege on an individual vs. group level. Let's take the example of taller than average men. Research shows that taller men are more likely to be married, and they make more money and get promoted more often. Ok, so "tall privilege". Does a tall man who is not interested in getting married, is not financially ambitious, and who works for himself (and so has no interest in being promoted) enjoy "tall privilege"? I'm not…	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/11/16 03:51 PM
3	What does it mean to be privileged or oppressed? To be fair, if you'd said "I find it embarrassing to have to pronounce names that I'm not familiar with" that would have been less extreme. Any sentence of the form "I don't like people who/that [generalisation about inherent property of the person]" is instantly going to lose you the argument.	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/11/16 03:02 PM
2	What does it mean to be privileged or oppressed? That's a privilege that you'd like. Perhaps you enjoy privileges that she'd like that you don't even notice.	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/11/16 03:00 PM
1	What does it mean to be privileged or oppressed? You're interpreting the example as guilt resting on the white person whose privileged rather than the hiring manager who is biased. You're interpretation is incorrect. I'm not inferring any guilt at all. We talk about "white/male/straight/cis/etc. privilege". That implies that it is something that it resides with that person. The hiring manager can be biased, sure, but we're talking about privilege/oppression. So the question remains: how do you interpret those situations in which an individual …	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/11/16 02:57 PM
2	What does it mean to be privileged or oppressed? Many people agree with me. Many. And they agree because their worldview, and the logic they have used to come to their conclusions lead them to see that what I have written is, in their opinion, a fact. So every black person who has "progressed through education and received those degrees" has done so purely as a result of their race, not ability? No, you admit that it is just "much more likely" (that's bullshit, but's let's go with it just for the sake of argument). If you are refusing to give …	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/11/16 02:47 PM
1	What does it mean to be privileged or oppressed? Advantages conferred based on membership in a certain group. How do you view unactualised privilege? For example, does a white person who's never applied for a a job still enjoy the privilege that you've described? The systematic attempt to disenfranchise a group. (My bold). I think this definition relies too much on intention and therefore sets up oppression to be either the result of a grand conspiracy or non-existent. Disenfranchisement can happen entirely by accident or sufficiently graduall…	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/11/16 01:59 PM
3	Why do so many women oppose feminism? I think MRAs and feminists often end up talking past each other because there is a fundamental incommensurability of experience in areas in which each claim to be disadvantaged. Men find it incredibly difficult to believe that women are really belittled and limited professionally and that they find sexual harrassment unpleasant; women find it very difficult to understand the degree to which men suffer from social isolation and lack of romantic/sexual contact. The problem with intersectionality i…	/r/PurplePillDebate	31/10/16 07:21 PM
1	Women, why do you expect men to just listen and not offer solutions? Ahhhhh.... that's better! The lark's on the wing; The snail's on the thorn: God's in His heaven— All's right with the world!	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/10/16 08:01 PM
2	Women, why do you expect men to just listen and not offer solutions? I agree that if someone is systematically unable to listen before offering a solution, then they're not very good LTR material. On the other hand, if you are systematically incapable of sharing your problems both as a means of seeking emotional reassurance and engaging your SO's help in helping you toward a solution, but rather use such situations merely as opportunities to treat them as an inanimate emotional toilet then (to quote you) "you're probably just being a stressful piece of shit I don…	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/10/16 01:34 PM
3	Women, why do you expect men to just listen and not offer solutions? What?! This is Reddit! You take that back!	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/10/16 01:16 PM
2	Women, why do you expect men to just listen and not offer solutions? Relationships are built between two people. The person speaking (seeking empathy) is a person and so is the person listening. Those two people will have their own personalities, quirks, abilities, inclinations etc. If you genuinely can't offer any emotional support then you probably shouldn't be in a relationship. Likewise, if you can't share your problems while still bearing in mind that you are talking to a person who is (now) sharing your pain, then you also shouldn't be in a relationship. I …	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/10/16 12:55 PM
1	Women, why do you expect men to just listen and not offer solutions? I think you're underestimating the degree to which having someone acknowledge your suffering and empathise can alleviate that suffering. That's why people form support groups and go to group therapy; it's to gain relief from the simple fact that someone else understands what you're going through, because they've also experienced it, and that your response to that suffering is normal human behaviour and doesn't mark you out as a failure. So, I disagree with you interpretation of why women (and pe…	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/10/16 12:41 PM
1	Women, why do you expect men to just listen and not offer solutions? You should really consider carefully that maybe the best thing to do is keep your fucking mouth shut and just look sympathetic That's not exactly very sympathetic towards him is it? Have you considered that in that situation he might actually be empathising with you and suffering as a result. If you just want him to "look sympathetic" you're basically insisting that he suffer so that you can feel a bit better for venting. That doesn't show a great deal of respect.	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/10/16 11:04 AM
2	Women, why do you expect men to just listen and not offer solutions? Wanting your partner to feel your suffering, but not wanting them to find a solution to that suffering seems kind of psychopathic to me. This is putting it a bit strongly, but I agree with the general point (have an upvote). Being on the receiving end of empathy is always lovely and it's good to know that someone understands your feelings, but demanding empathy while insisting that someone not look for a solution is a shitty thing to do. In essence you're insisting that another person suffer, ju…	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/10/16 11:01 AM
1	ElevatorGate, DongleGate and ShirtGate Were About Unattractive Men Trying to Act Like Attractive Men, or Simply As "Normal", "Average" Men No, that is absolutely the point. People are pushing back that the woman was at fault for feeling the way that she felt and that these creepy men are somehow not to blame. I agree that it's daft to find the woman to be at fault for feeling creeped out. She will feel how she will feel given the cultural context of possible sexual assault etc. That's not a very likely outcome given that most men are not rapists and most encounters don't end in sexual assault, but human responses to those kind of s…	/r/PurplePillDebate	17/10/16 04:46 PM
1	ElevatorGate, DongleGate and ShirtGate Were About Unattractive Men Trying to Act Like Attractive Men, or Simply As "Normal", "Average" Men I think you're being too literal. I'm not talking about the question per se. If you have poor social skills then you are likely to be equally unaware that the setting makes any question creepy. You sabotage yourself 100% when you are ignorant of setting and other social factors. I agree, but that's not the point. The point is: how do we make people less ignorant of those social factors? People develop social skills at different rates, some people have always seemed to have them, some people neve…	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/10/16 09:33 PM
2	ElevatorGate, DongleGate and ShirtGate Were About Unattractive Men Trying to Act Like Attractive Men, or Simply As "Normal", "Average" Men The RP response to all that is to say "you shouldn't feel creeped out!" Dumbasses. They miss the point entirely. And then wonder why they struggle with women. Then what is the point? This isn't an RP question, it's fundamental to the question of how people with less-than-perfect social skills negotiate this kind of interaction (EDIT: and how they ever develop their social skills). How do you know if the question will be found creepy before you ask it? Is your solution that the question should ju…	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/10/16 08:46 AM
2	ElevatorGate, DongleGate and ShirtGate Were About Unattractive Men Trying to Act Like Attractive Men, or Simply As "Normal", "Average" Men What's the word after "behave"? Your version of the "Well he would say that wouldn't he" argument i.e., when the predicted action of an innocent person and a guilty person are the same, assuming that someone who performs that action is guilty.	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/10/16 08:41 AM
1	Places like DrNerdLove, TheGoodMenProject, and other mainstream sources are unhelpful to guys wanting to raise their SMV because those places further indoctrinate guys to be betas chumps and not alpha fux. It's not the entire concept of wolves displaying social dominance that was dispelled, just the simple hierarchical pack structure. I'll requote shall I? "It's not the entire concept of wolves displaying social dominance that was dispelled, just the simple hierarchical pack structure." So if wolves and humans "do the same thing" then you're acknowledging that the concept of social hierarchies in humans has also been dispelled. How are you still hanging on to the argument that wolves and humans ar…	/r/PurplePillDebate	12/10/16 09:27 AM
1	Traditional masculine behaviour is overtly punished and covertly rewarded in North America. The bottom line is, if you as a male acts feminine or un-masculine in the wrong ways, you'll be told it's okay, then you'll be punished for it(or not rewarded). You'll be told all this behaviour is "toxic masculinity", and at the same time you'll see this "toxic" behaviour reinforced by men and women. The punishment and reinforcement are part of why it's "toxic", alongside the fact that it's actually damaging to men (e.g., men being forced to be stoic and ending up with untreated psychological p…	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/10/16 04:43 PM
2	Places like DrNerdLove, TheGoodMenProject, and other mainstream sources are unhelpful to guys wanting to raise their SMV because those places further indoctrinate guys to be betas chumps and not alpha fux. So, you're admitting that you were wrong while continuing to assert that you're right? I'm very confused. To quote from the article "Wolves (and other animals, including humans), display social dominance, he notes; it just isn't always easy to boil dominant behavior down to simple explanations. Dominant behavior and dominance relationships can be highly situational, and can vary greatly from individual to individual even within the same species. It's not the entire concept of wolves displaying s…	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/10/16 02:23 PM
3	Places like DrNerdLove, TheGoodMenProject, and other mainstream sources are unhelpful to guys wanting to raise their SMV because those places further indoctrinate guys to be betas chumps and not alpha fux. You're outright denying the alpha/beta paradigm among humans? Look, just because we have more evolved brains and speech doesn't mean we're not still primal animals at the most biological level, It's not even a correct paradigm in primal animals.	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/10/16 08:13 AM
1	RPers: What do you think the sexual history of an average man looks like? An average women? and now you're strawmanning me to prove the exclusive superiority of modern science I'll quote you shall I? "As such, epistemologically, there is no difference in me accepting the belief “Women are smarter than men” as a true belief whether it comes as a statement from a random woman or is presented to me as a conclusion of a study." So knowledge gained through the scientific method is no more sound than knowledge from any other source? What is your explanation then for why the scientific method…	/r/PurplePillDebate	11/10/16 08:08 AM
1	RPers: What do you think the sexual history of an average man looks like? An average women? Your argument just reeks in general. It's a dishonest exercise in epistemelogical nihilism for the sake of promoting a particular worldview. My point stands, not least because you could, in theory, go and gain the expertise that would allow you to confirm or refute a study outcome, rather than an appeal to authority. If you want to claim that the entire scientific process and, by extension, all the knowledge that it has created is bunk then you need to suggest a more probable alternative. As I s…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/10/16 06:35 PM
1	RPers: What do you think the sexual history of an average man looks like? An average women? False. In order to accept the conclusion of a study as a true belief, you only have to make the claim that the study has been scrutinised be people whose business it is to understand "every single methodology, decision, assumption, computation, and inference leading to the conclusion." i.e., it has been reviewed and is subject to replication or, through a failure to be replicated, falsification by people who can use those same methodologies. The body of scientific knowledge doesn't depend on tak…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/10/16 12:49 PM
1	Discussion: Let's see all the "10" +30 yr old women. Allow me to tl;dr that for you: sexual attraction is subjective. Well, since I wrote it, why don't I TL;DR it: attraction varies with the age of the observer, young men find (almost exclusively) young women attractive, older men find young and older women attractive. I disagree. In general, there is tremendous agreement about who is hot and who is not. Yes, you can show that some objective factors correlate very strongly with attractiveness e.g., symmetry, although the correlation is not perfect…	/r/PurplePillDebate	29/09/16 06:46 PM
1	Discussion: Let's see all the "10" +30 yr old women. I agree that aging gracefully and keeping yourself in shape are better than the alternatives but, otherwise, I don't see how your comment was relevant to what I wrote. Lots of people here are saying "yeah but she was hotter when she was 20". If you want to set objective standards for hotness, like evenness of skin tone/lack of wrinkles, then that's true, but it's not a complete version of why we're attracted to people, since sexual attraction is inherently not objective. To limit ourselves to th…	/r/PurplePillDebate	29/09/16 03:36 PM
2	Discussion: Let's see all the "10" +30 yr old women. Related point: if you're in an LTR with someone your eyes "age" with your partner. To you they're the same person they were when you met them and because the physical changes to them are gradual you simply accept them while still finding them attractive. Plus they gain a shrewdness and worldliness that I think is attractive. I've found that that effect generalises to other people so I now find women the same age as my LTR partner (late 30s) to be attractive in a way that I would never have notic…	/r/PurplePillDebate	29/09/16 01:06 PM
3	A new spin on AF/BB No, that's not the point. The point is that if your sexual needs are not being met in a relationship you are free to end that relationship at any point. What u/ozymandias271 is saying is that, in the situation that was described, the man should have been more insightful and honest about his own needs and dumped his partner before he ever found out about her past. The reason for dumping her is what she is like with him and is entirely independent of anything she has done in the past.	/r/PurplePillDebate	26/09/16 11:00 AM
1	What is your best proof that TRP and MGTOW are wrong in their view of women Well I'm convinced!	/r/PurplePillDebate	26/09/16 10:44 AM
1	What is your best proof that TRP and MGTOW are wrong in their view of women Yup, this is the simplest and most compelling argument. I have too many friends and colleagues who are fiercely intelligent, independent, competent women with successful careers. The idea that these women are all constantly on the lookout to upgrade to someone of "higher value" runs completely contrary to what I know of them.	/r/PurplePillDebate	24/09/16 02:12 PM
1	Can a beta male have a fulfilling relationship with a post wall woman? If the lock maker decides the objective purpose of the lock then people's parents decides the objective purpose of an individual. You're reaching here. Locks are not independent agents that make their own decisions. It also means you can never use something for another purpose than what its creator intended. Why not? This isn't relevant. My smartphone seems to fulfil its main purpose. It's also a useful paperweight, but that doesn't stop it being a good smartphone. It can't be both? An analogy i…	/r/PurplePillDebate	15/09/16 07:48 AM
1	Can a beta male have a fulfilling relationship with a post wall woman? It is a bad lock because I consider it bad when women give out sex for free. The same way humans only have a purpose that we decide upon, so is true about the lock. It is just pieces of metal put together in a certain way. It doesn't have any more purpose than a person has. This is where I get lost as to why people use the analogy. Of course a lock has more purpose than a person. A lock maker has a particular purpose in mind when he/she makes a lock. Since he/she has actually created the lock it…	/r/PurplePillDebate	14/09/16 08:48 AM
1	Can a beta male have a fulfilling relationship with a post wall woman? It's good that we agree that such value judgements cannot be objective and that we therefore can disagree on them without disputing any facts. I disagree that the analogy is "just a description of what we see in the world" partly because it contains value judgements ("a bad lock") and is therefore not just a descriptor, but also because of the issue I raised that people are not designed to have a particular purpose. I guess my wider question is why do people cling on to that analogy? To me, it a…	/r/PurplePillDebate	13/09/16 09:02 AM
2	Can a beta male have a fulfilling relationship with a post wall woman? The point is that the analogy is shit because women (like men) are not designed to have any specific purpose. They are independent entities who can do whatever the hell they like with their lives and the suggestion that their "purpose" is to remain closed only to "open" for people with a key (presumably, people you consider to be worthy) is just nonsense. Even if you grant the evo-psych theory that women have to be more selective with their choice of partner than men because childbearing (which …	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/09/16 09:20 PM
4	Can a beta male have a fulfilling relationship with a post wall woman? If you buy a new house you quite often have to deal with all the undiscovered flaws that the builders have left behind. If it's had a halfway-competent previous owner then a lot of those flaws will have been fixed. I think your analogy actually has some legs.	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/09/16 08:19 AM
4	Can a beta male have a fulfilling relationship with a post wall woman? Once again..a key that can open many locks is a master key, a lock that can be opened by many keys is a shitty lock. This point has been made across to Blue Pillers time and time again and every time they choose to bury their heads in the sands and hamster away other explanations. I don't think I've ever seen anyone use this analogy unironically. Thanks for a new experience! A lock's purpose is to remain locked. Why is that the purpose of a woman? The notion that a woman's most valuable asset is…	/r/PurplePillDebate	10/09/16 08:17 AM
1	Bluepill: Is your disagreement with the Red pill that there is something inherently immoral about researching and applying methods that would guarantee any man the ability to have sex with any woman? TL;DR: Yes Assuming you're talking about consensual sex then we could generalise the question to: "Is there something inherently immoral about researching and applying methods that would guarantee that any member of group X could gain the consent of any member of group Y with regard to activity Z?" Yes. Yes there is. If such methods actually existed they would dehumanise the members of group Y to nothing more than machines who merely need to be manipulated in the required way to give the desired…	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/09/16 12:02 PM
1	Do you want to be "challenged" in a relationship? Well, as u/sardonis70 said "the only "power" I have is the power she gives me", which I guess is true of all marriages. I'm glad that he takes his responsibilities seriously, but I'm not really seeing how the marriage is "his ship" any more than it's hers. I don't really consider LTRs in terms of power. In most of them the decision making process usually just evolves as a result of the personality and abilities of the partners. That seems to be what u/sardonis70 is describing: decisions naturall…	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/09/16 08:56 AM
1	Do you want to be "challenged" in a relationship? I think your take on marriage as analagous to a small business is an interesting heuristic that may well be valuable for the long-term happiness of both partners (and I'm glad that it works for you both). I like the idea of creating win-win situations. I think my POV is different, however, because (assuming one has no kids) a marriage is a business without external stakeholders (or at least without external stakeholders whose opinion actually matters). The purpose of maintaining a good marriage …	/r/PurplePillDebate	09/09/16 08:34 AM
1	Do you want to be "challenged" in a relationship? My wife is very complimentary, which is to say her strong points are some of my weakest, and if I had to put a 'value' on what she adds to my life, that would be it. She shores up my weaknesses and I shore up hers. If I feel that I'm not able to execute, I'll tell her to take the lead. Given that you have complementary strengths do you ever get her opinion in order to make a joint decision? That is, do you ever voluntarily share power in a relationship? If not, why not? It sounds like you like t…	/r/PurplePillDebate	08/09/16 05:11 PM
2	Do you want to be "challenged" in a relationship? So I guess my ideal mate is a woman that has little to no desire to EVER dominate anything, and certainly not her romantic relationships. I'm not even willing to have the discussion let alone actually jocky for power with her. And in fact, part of the purpose of the C/FM dynamic is in my mind to completely remove this issue. Do you think it's the only way, or even a healthy way, to deal with the issue though? I think it is quite wearing to be in a relationship in which you're constantly having t…	/r/PurplePillDebate	08/09/16 04:29 PM
1	Do you want to be "challenged" in a relationship? Thanks for your reply. I'm not clear about this bit: There are cases where an individuals happiness may work against the long term happiness of the marriage, and in those cases it becomes necessary to "side" with the marriage, so to speak. If this is, again, just a clash between long-term happiness (of the marriage i.e., of both partners) and short term gratification then I agree. I don't understand how one could "side" with the marriage in the long term if that fundamentally conflicts with the …	/r/PurplePillDebate	08/09/16 04:17 PM
3	Do you want to be "challenged" in a relationship? I love my wife and want her to be happy as well, but her happiness is NOT so important that it takes precedence over mine, or the health of our marriage. What this RP advice is telling men is to STOP putting her happiness above your own, or even above your own goals and your mission. There's a grain of truth in here, again, regarding self-worth, but there's also a contradiction: the health of a marriage is dependent on the (long-term) happiness of both partners and their happiness will be depend…	/r/PurplePillDebate	08/09/16 03:03 PM
4	Do you want to be "challenged" in a relationship? Every time you agreed with her to keep the peace. Every time you went out to the place she wanted to go to instead of the place you would have preferred. Every time you bought her the greatest present on Valentine's Day. Every time you did everything in your power to make her happy. So, since you're talking about every time, your advice is Never agree with her just to keep the peace, any level of disagreement should be escalated Never go out to the place she wants to Never buy her a great presen…	/r/PurplePillDebate	08/09/16 10:52 AM
0	Feminism: it's always rights for women and responsibilities for men. Take a breath... step away from the SHIFT key. Now try re-reading the posts. The argument you are making has been made before. Sometimes it's even been made by serious philosophers (you know, the kind of people who can convey their argument without typing in ALL CAPS!). The argument is that there are substantial moral differences between the situation of a pregnant woman and the situation of the person hooked up to the violinist. Primarily this is stated as the woman having a responsibility to t…	/r/MensRights	05/09/16 11:54 AM
1	Feminism: it's always rights for women and responsibilities for men. How is the child accountable for the actions of the mother?	/r/MensRights	02/09/16 04:45 PM
1	Feminism: it's always rights for women and responsibilities for men. Just to add to u/nvolker's points, the violinist thought experiment isn't fundamentally focussed on the issue of responsibility. It's a rebuttal to the common anti-abortion argument that you can't have an abortion because it kills a person. The thought experiment points out that the personhood of the entity that dies is not relevant. Even it is indisputably a person (i.e., the violinist) who is relying on your body for their continued existence you still have the right to deny them the use of yo…	/r/MensRights	02/09/16 07:08 AM
1	Feminism: it's always rights for women and responsibilities for men. I'm not being obtuse. You are proposing a system in which support from the father is not given to the child. This will likely result in a poorer quality of life for the child and greater cost for society. Your justification for this is that it's the mother's fault and that we are "treating the mother like X". I don't care whose fucking fault it is, and I don't care how we treat the mother; assigning blame does not stop the child from suffering. We could fix this problem by putting the burden on …	/r/MensRights	02/09/16 06:49 AM
1	Feminism: it's always rights for women and responsibilities for men. And yet the child still suffers because of someone else's actions. Is that ok with you?	/r/MensRights	01/09/16 04:04 PM
2	Feminism: it's always rights for women and responsibilities for men. So the child isn't entitled to support because the mother made a mistake? Why are you punishing the child?	/r/MensRights	01/09/16 03:29 PM
1	Feminism: it's always rights for women and responsibilities for men. In that situation, if the father were supporting the child then the child could live with him and the mother would be liable for child support. No? If the father is no longer involved then the state would support the child since it would effectively have been put up for adoption. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that the child has the right to the support of its parents in the first instance.	/r/MensRights	01/09/16 01:09 PM
1	Feminism: it's always rights for women and responsibilities for men. I'm not arguing for allowing abortions beyond the point that the fetus is viable, although even that restriction is an impingement upon the woman's bodily autonomy.	/r/MensRights	01/09/16 01:03 PM
1	Feminism: it's always rights for women and responsibilities for men. So you advocate murder, so long as it's done by a woman to her child. No, I acknowledge the right of the woman to deny the fetus (not "child") the use of her body, even if it results in the fetus dying. If there were a way, once the fetus is past a certain stage of development, to remove the fetus from the woman and bring it to term elsewhere then I think she should be obliged to do that. In the absence of such technology her right to bodily autonomy takes precedence up to a certain point (see b…	/r/MensRights	01/09/16 12:58 PM
2	Feminism: it's always rights for women and responsibilities for men. ...and now these are the consequences. Which fall upon the child. I think most of society is not ok with watching children starve just because we can point the finger at their mother and say "The blame is on her." Ultimately it's still a human child starving.	/r/MensRights	01/09/16 10:54 AM
2	Feminism: it's always rights for women and responsibilities for men. That's not bodily autonomy, which is a specific legal construct.	/r/MensRights	01/09/16 10:52 AM
1	Feminism: it's always rights for women and responsibilities for men. When I tell them I don't have bodily autonomy (circumcision, the draft which forces me to agree to people shooting at me) they go "uh... let's change the subject". Most feminists I've spoken to are anti-circumcision and anti-draft (or pro equality with regard to the draft). And, holy jesus, if you don't want the child, give it up for adoption. But no, her RIGHT to bodily autonomy means that she has to kill the child if she wants. No, she has the right to evict the fetus from her body. She has th…	/r/MensRights	01/09/16 10:51 AM
1	Feminism: it's always rights for women and responsibilities for men. Yes, but once the child is born it has it's own rights, which include support from both parents. It's nothing to do with the mother's responsibilities any more.	/r/MensRights	01/09/16 10:47 AM
1	Feminism: it's always rights for women and responsibilities for men. That's unjust, because he is just as entitled to reproductive choice as she is. It's unfortunate, but it's not unjust. Your argument fails at this point because you are arguing for equality above all in a situation where equality has to be secondary to a higher legal principle i.e., bodily autonomy, in light of fundamental biological differences between the sexes. Her right is not primarily one of reproductive choice. It is of deciding what happens to her body; not her genetic material, not her …	/r/MensRights	01/09/16 09:58 AM
1	Feminism: it's always rights for women and responsibilities for men. I'm not a great fan of feminism but I'm not sure what point you're making here. Feminists are wholly in favour of paternity leave or shared parental leave. Adoption, childcare and part-time work don't seem like inherently gendered problems. I'm not aware of a specific feminist approach with regard to birth control that particularly impacts men's rights. Which leave us with abortion. Men have no rights with regard to abortion but that's not a feminist argument, it just falls out of the universal …	/r/MensRights	01/09/16 08:29 AM
1	Feminism: it's always rights for women and responsibilities for men. she wants the baby but he doesn't: she keeps the baby but he doesn't get involved and doesn't have to pay child support; he wants the baby but she doesn't, yet she's willing to sit out the pregnancy: she has the baby but he "gets" it, afterwards she won't be involved and doesn't have to pay child support; What happens in these scenarios if the parent who ends up with the child does not have the means to support the child?	/r/MensRights	01/09/16 08:21 AM
0	Fitness instructor posts rant about sexual harassment I'll TL;DR this post: nothing that you've written justifies the specific behaviour of making uninvited sexual comments/propositions to strangers in a publoic place i.e., catcalling. I'm sorry to tell you this but you do not speak for the whole of humanity. People have always been sexual with each other, it is our most basic interaction and drive in life. It happened in strict Victorian times therefore it will certainly happen in a post sexual revolution world. You don't get to have sexual freedo…	/r/MensRights	01/09/16 08:08 AM
1	Fitness instructor posts rant about sexual harassment I'm not really interested in continuing this discussion but I will take a moment to explain why. You are committing the same error that some feminists commit, which is to prioritise the context provided by your preferred model to such an extent that you simply fail to accept someone else's experience which runs contrary to that model; while simultaneously using the person's report of their experience to support said model via a heroic level of confirmation bias or straightforward mental gymnasti…	/r/MensRights	25/08/16 10:30 AM
1	Fitness instructor posts rant about sexual harassment Y'no... I believe we're at an impasse here. I would address your last post directly but a lot of it will be repeating myself and a lot of it will be addressing logical flaws in your argument. I don't really think you'll respond well to that so I'm not going to do it. It's possible but, if only for the sake of improving future discussions, please do ahead with highlighting any logical inconsistencies in my post. I've been doing the same with your post. I think it's worth noting, however, that I t…	/r/MensRights	24/08/16 08:10 AM
1	Fitness instructor posts rant about sexual harassment Translation: it hit the spot and I can't find an arguement against it. I'm not sure why I'd need an argument since what your saying doesn't qualify as an argument to be countered. I've already rebutted what points you have made and the rest is just crude abuse (crap). Translation: I must "Believe the Victim" regardless of the evidence right in front of my eyes. So you don't believe that she has experienced what she claims and that it makes her uncomfortable and/or fearful? I guess there's nothin…	/r/MensRights	23/08/16 09:43 PM
1	Fitness instructor posts rant about sexual harassment Well, you were using the "evidence" that there were just a few pixs on her blog as proof she was not an "attention-whore" (your words, not mine); No, I was using the nature of the pictures to indicate that she is drawing attention to her fitness, not her tits and ass. and yet here she is on Instagram posting 100's of pixs. So I guess the 100's of Instagram posts need defending now eh? Not really, it's part of her business. Wanting attention for her instagram page is not the same as inviting sexu…	/r/MensRights	23/08/16 04:01 PM
1	Fitness instructor posts rant about sexual harassment One minute you are claiming she only has few pixs on her website ("Of the 4 photos on the "Images" section of her website 2 are her showing off her arm and shoulder muscles..."); next minute you are trying to defend the hundreds and hundreds of pixs on her Instagram. Why would the quantity of pictures need defending particularly? I wasn't saying that she'd only ever posted 4 pictures online; I was using them as a sample to illustrate that they're mostly fitness oriented. Lots of people post lots…	/r/MensRights	23/08/16 03:26 PM
1	Fitness instructor posts rant about sexual harassment Yes, it is. And my question is why is she being catcalled in the first place. Because some men (and a smaller proportion of women) think it's ok to make uninvited sexual comments to other people. The probability of those comments goes up for scantily clad people but can be directed at pretty much anyone. I agree that the current dating dynamic of men having to be active exacerbates this but I think catcalling is usually more about men making themselves feel big than expecting any actual positive…	/r/MensRights	23/08/16 03:18 PM
1	Fitness instructor posts rant about sexual harassment A quick note, before I reply. Please could you quote the text from my post that you're replying to. It would avoid any confusion and makes your writing much easier to parse. Even just like this: "It is your responsibility... what can we do to improve our group?" would be useful.	/r/MensRights	23/08/16 02:38 PM
1	I got yelled at for describing a Bris as a "Ritualistic genital mutilation" by my friend. You misunderstand. The term "ritualistic" is entirely accurate. It might however lead the OP's friend to assume that his criticism is simply part of the long history of criticising Jewish rituals purely from an anti-semitic stance, whereas the OP's criticism is actually from a humanist, anti-mutilation stance. His criticism might have more traction if he omits the term "ritualistic" and, frankly, I can't see what it gains from including that term.	/r/MensRights	23/08/16 11:09 AM
1	Fitness instructor posts rant about sexual harassment Most people don't group the street/park/gym with the workplace. The workplace has specific rules about sexual interaction and flirting between people. Most places specifically discourage workplace relationships. As a society we agree that going to work isn't a choice nor is it a place for regular social interactions. True, workplaces have additional rules on top of normal social mores. Everywhere else, but particularly the street/park/gym, are places where people choose to be, and frequently as …	/r/MensRights	23/08/16 09:26 AM
2	Fitness instructor posts rant about sexual harassment I'll TL;DR my previous post again shall I? And it's full of countless pictures online of herself It's instagram. Selfies are about 90% of it for most people. nearly nude She's a fitness instructor, her body is her business and in provocative positions. Eye of the beholder, mate. Again none of this is relevant. It's her blog and she's talking about being approached in public.	/r/MensRights	23/08/16 09:18 AM
1	Fitness instructor posts rant about sexual harassment If I pick up a stick and start swinging it at grass you can assume I'm maybe pretending it's a weapon. If almost all women wear make-up and figure-hugging clothes you can deduce something from that in tandem with their approach to dating. It's obvious and it's seen all over the animal kingdom. Too many generalisations and no evidence that these activities aren't subject to socialisation. Also what is not obvious is why the behaviour of animals provides any template for how we should act. Very fe…	/r/MensRights	23/08/16 09:13 AM
2	I got yelled at for describing a Bris as a "Ritualistic genital mutilation" by my friend. I agree that it's barbaric. I was explaining one reason why his friend might have had a particularly hostile reaction to the specific words that he chose. I thought that might be a useful bit of knowledge if he wants his activism (which I admire) to be effective in future.	/r/MensRights	23/08/16 08:56 AM
0	Fitness instructor posts rant about sexual harassment "I can have this ridiculous, unwieldy tail and still survive" Sounds like me when I drop my trousers... so that's why I have such a big one! 😜😜😜😜 [Sorry... just had to. You know what us guys are like!]. If you're saying you're a pea-cock, you may want to think about phrasing. As for the rest of your post it's just "AWALT". Fair enough, I think that evolution plays a role in our behaviour. I don't think it's the be all and end all. I don't think you're really providing anything other than anecdat…	/r/MensRights	22/08/16 10:11 PM
1	Fitness instructor posts rant about sexual harassment Not a product of evolution, honest guv. It's all "culture" that made me wear this dress And that's just male of the species! The females are surprisingly boring. As I understand it such displays are along the lines of "I can have this ridiculous, unwieldy tail and still survive", I'm not sure there is a human equivalent. We seem quite capable of spotting each other's sexual characteristics without such exaggeration. And we all want to feel attractive, even if we are not up for a shag. Sure, but …	/r/MensRights	22/08/16 09:20 PM
1	Fitness instructor posts rant about sexual harassment I'm talking about generalities not individual examples and women wear more revealing clothes in general with the express aim (whether they realise that's what they're doing or not) of attracting attention. I think making claims about other people's motivations is not productive because it can just be thrown straight back. How about the feminist line that "Men catcall women because they have the ingrained belief, from toxic Patriarchal norms, that they have the right to have all women's bodies." …	/r/MensRights	22/08/16 09:07 PM
1	Fitness instructor posts rant about sexual harassment "...I hate that our culture makes me miss it" Breaking News: Mr Charles Darwin is pleased to announce his discovery of "Evolution". Mesmerising presentation starts at 7pm sharp at the Royal Society, Carlton House Terrace, London. Tickets: 1 shilling and sixpence. "Everything is down to evo-psych" isn't any more convincing than the feminist line of "everything is down to culture". What is wrong with wanting to dump your existing relationship and upgrade to a more attractive partner? All other thi…	/r/MensRights	22/08/16 08:40 PM
1	Fitness instructor posts rant about sexual harassment As I posted below — from the mouth of a leading feminist! LOL http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/07/20/feminista-who-urged-an-end-to-wolf-whistles-now-moans-shes-too-old-to-get-them/ Read the original Jessica Valenti article (that's not something I thought I'd ever say, because I'm really not a fan of her). The headline is "Men rarely catcall me any more. I hate that our culture makes me miss it" i.e., I do miss it but I miss it because "you’re brought up to feel that the most importan…	/r/MensRights	22/08/16 08:08 PM
0	Fitness instructor posts rant about sexual harassment Actually that's not a social rule, because the majority of people think someone commenting on them, particularly in a positive way, isn't a big deal. I agree "don't positively comment on someone" is not a social rule, but that's not what I said. The social rule that I described was "don't immediately make sexual comments to strangers" i.e., don't make a sexual proposition your opening gambit. Welcome to the world of post sexual revolution where people do indeed think that sex is something everyo…	/r/MensRights	22/08/16 07:59 PM
0	I got yelled at for describing a Bris as a "Ritualistic genital mutilation" by my friend. My friend, who isn't a friend any more, thinks my remarks were not only insensitive due to the use of the word "mutilation" but also antisemitic due to the use of the word "ritualistic." I thought I was being neither rude nor antisemitic, but rather accurately describing a Bris. It's worth noting that the criticism and false description of Jewish religious rituals has been an unpleasant part of anti-semitism throughout history. So your choice of the word "ritualistic" may have been ill-advised a…	/r/MensRights	22/08/16 07:42 PM
0	Fitness instructor posts rant about sexual harassment This hot chick plasters semi-naked pixs of her young hot body in tight spandex all over her blog, and then starts moaning because the odd man here or there makes a stupid remark. That looks like one-handed typing to me; you're just seeing what you want to see. She posts pictures of herself working out and in fitness clothes on her blog because she's a fitness instructor. She's allowed to be proud of her body because improving it, and helping others to do the same, is her trade. In any case, she'…	/r/MensRights	22/08/16 07:33 PM
0	Fitness instructor posts rant about sexual harassment I think you're ignoring the content of many of these encounters. Even if you do think a woman wants attention (and there's no reason to think that a woman, or a man, out for a run/workout in normal athletic gear does) why would you assume that immediate saying what you want to do to her sexually or commenting on her body is a socially acceptable opening gambit? Maybe these are just clumsy attempts at seduction, in which case people need to learn that they are not welcome in the vast majority of …	/r/MensRights	22/08/16 07:22 PM
3	Fitness instructor posts rant about sexual harassment Yes I post countless pictures online of myself nearly nude and in provocative positions I think you're seeing what you want to see there. Of the 4 photos on the "Images" section of her website 2 are her showing off her arm and shoulder muscles; 1 is her in a press-up position and 1 is an upper-body shot of her looking at the camera wearing a normal sports bra/top. Bear in mind that she's a fitness instructor. Sure in some circumstances women might dress in a similar amount of clothing to show of…	/r/MensRights	22/08/16 10:51 AM
3	Feminist claim male circumcision hurts women This is true! Have a look at this excellent video, particularly the section starting here I'd consider this as another string to the bow of the intactivist movement, annoying as it is to have the focus drawn away from the direct harm to the man/boy.	/r/MensRights	07/04/16 11:33 AM
1	"Body Acceptance" Feminist Amy Schumer bashes intact men on radio Re not sleeping with women with hanging out vaginas. I obviously didn't say it straight up in case I needed to sex them later during a dry patch. You never know. I don't burn bridges that way. Even a stuffed liver is better than nothing when it's been a few months. Ok. How about also doing it because she's a person too and it can be pretty hurtful being rejected due a specific part of your body? I mean, there's no point in hurting someone's feelings if you don't have to. Well I didn't watch her.…	/r/MensRights	06/04/16 04:32 PM
1	"Body Acceptance" Feminist Amy Schumer bashes intact men on radio I actually have told women to leave after seeing her vagina and being turned off by the stuffed liver appearance. Well I hope you did that as kindly as you could. I am under no obligation to sleep with women and can reject them for any reason or even none. ... my preferences for genitals shouldn't mean that those people have to change to suit me. Absolutely, you are within your rights to leave (just as Amy was), but nobody should be obliged or even pressured to change their body just to please y…	/r/MensRights	06/04/16 06:46 AM
-3	"Body Acceptance" Feminist Amy Schumer bashes intact men on radio We agree then :) I'd suggest not describing them as "disgusting" though as it comes over as combative and negative. The more positive way of putting is what you've just written, since that serves to protect the bodily autonomy of all children.	/r/MensRights	05/04/16 01:22 PM
1	"Body Acceptance" Feminist Amy Schumer bashes intact men on radio Well if you don't like them, nobody is forcing you to go near them, but I don't hear you suggesting (thankfully) that women's labia shoud be cut off in infancy just because you don't like some of them.	/r/MensRights	05/04/16 01:04 PM
12	"Body Acceptance" Feminist Amy Schumer bashes intact men on radio Exactly. A foreskin is not something "extra", neither is any part of a normal vulva.	/r/MensRights	05/04/16 01:02 PM
39	"Body Acceptance" Feminist Amy Schumer bashes intact men on radio "What if we [women] had a little extra something down there?" WT(actual)F?! You do! Vulvas are not the neatest things in the world and, you know what, that's fine!	/r/MensRights	05/04/16 11:19 AM
1	Not satisfied with men having no reproductive rights, feminists move to eliminate men's right to bodily autonomy. From the article: there’s also pre-ejaculate to worry about, which does indeed contain sperm and can lead to pregnancy.	/r/MensRights	05/04/16 10:57 AM
2	Not satisfied with men having no reproductive rights, feminists move to eliminate men's right to bodily autonomy. reduce the likelihood of pregnancy by only having PIV sex... in a manner (her on top) that reduces the likelihood of pregnancy. She can "finish" him orally after having PIV sex Neither of these things are good strategies against conception	/r/MensRights	04/04/16 11:18 AM
-3	The Reasons Reverse Sexism Doesn't Really Exist via @rachelintheoc It's not a pissing contest. Men and women both have problems related to their gender. Even if you could prove that men have it worse (with your "worse-ometer" or whatever), so what? Would that mean that everyone should just drop working on women's problems and only work on men's problems? That would just make the situation as bad as a world in which men's problems are ignored because "women have it worse".	/r/MensRights	01/09/15 07:23 PM