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4

Discussionfull-nudes-please/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/15 10:22 PM
Upvotes Comment on Subreddit Date (UTC)
2

What TRP'ers call SMV isn't just status. It's also looks and charm.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/08/15 06:09 AM
3

Abortion access.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/08/15 05:32 AM
2

'asshole' brings to mind those guys who try to knock people down, insult people randomly, act poserish... what you mean above is more don't pedestalise women go for what you want which is the good side of TRP, yeah
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/15 02:48 AM
1

if you're defining asshole as "someone who doesn't treat people like shit" then you're using a definition almost nobody in the world agrees with.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/15 12:22 AM
1

yes, there is a very obvious difference. treating people like shit is not something anyone should encourage, let alone aspire to. having confidence, going for what you want, etc. are great things that have nothing to do with treating people like shit that's literally the point of this thread.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/15 12:13 AM
0

nope. pursuing what you want is not the same thing as being an asshole. one of those things is positive, the other is toxic.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/15 12:11 AM
0

this is called the "fallacy fallacy" pointing out some resemblance to a fallacy does not mean anything about the rest of the argument. not to mention that neonazis/TRP'ers are very similar in terms of being fringe groups with a hate filled reputation who want to change things in society (even positive things) but instead talk to each other in echo chambres.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/15 09:06 PM
1

Which is the same thing as "consider her feelings before considering your needs". What??? There is no "her" first of all. It's him or her. Manipulative assholes are manipulative assholes. Second, anyone can meet their needs without being a manipulative asshole who tries to make people feel like crap/obey his orders. Total false dichotomy. If I want something, and I know how to use my charisma to achieve it, should I go for it, or consider whether or not it will crush her? One has to be the prior…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/15 08:45 PM
1

the size is defined by the number of men willing to be part of an openly toxic/bitter/hatefilled group of people. I mean, come on. a white supremacist can make the same claim. "Oh we're looking for people who are already willing to be seen as nazis." Why not accomplish your goals from within society. For example, a neonazi is concerned with low white birthrates. Why not join respectable society and support/promote things that promote birthrates in the middle class? That will actually go toward a…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/15 08:41 PM
1

No, plenty of people do; you simply dislike it. Recognize the difference. Again, nobody in their right minds defines charisma as "crushing someone's self esteem/making a slave out of them." To anyone reading, this sounds absolutely ridiculous. You've lost this point and giving up now will minimise the loss. No, you've decided that a woman's feelings are more important than a man's needs. A man is only allowed to pursue happiness once a woman's feelings are considered. That is not prioritizing ma…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/15 08:31 PM
1

No no no. All of that's wrong. Every single thing. What you call toxic manipulation is simply the version of charisma that favours men BS What I call toxic manipulation is, and I quote "crushing someone's self esteem/making a slave out of them." Nobody in their right mind defines that as charisma Society (and you) prioritize women and their feelings first, which is precisely why you'll never have people adopt your brand. I have "prioritized" men and women equally throughout this thread. Don't ma…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/15 08:22 PM
1

we don't actually disagree on that manipulation in the sense of social navigation, influencing people's behaviour = fine, sure. pretty much what charisma means manipulation in the sense of crushing someone's self esteem, trying to force them to be one's slave = the toxic bit An already "successful version of TRP" has been built ITT. It's the good side of TRP: teaching men (and women) how to avoid manipulative women (and men). Tactics to identify and then thwart manipulation. Ways to improve one'…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/15 08:03 PM
1

well if you're dedicated to being a fringe group for men, not helping any men beyond that fringe, then I guess it's up to you.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/15 07:59 PM
1

There is no "nice" way of describing something like AF/BB. Two things are being confused here. 1) Teaching people about manipulation and how to avoid it is good. Describe AF/BB all you want, I've done it here in a full-RP way. 2) Teaching people to become awful/manipulative themselves is bad. 1 can easily and should always be done without 2
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/15 07:56 PM
1

TRP has very valuable lessons to teach people. It also has this veil of bitterness/hatred and advice like "be an horrible person!" on top of that which drives many, many people away. So if TRP wants to help more men (the stated goal) then it'd do well to focus on the positive actionable advice and let up on the toxicness Same goes for women. Instead of ranting bitterly about men, they could use TRP like lessons to avoid manipulative men and thus be happier and less bitter toward the opposite sex…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/15 07:32 PM
1

And it shouldn't be Where is the disagreeing here? Count how many times I said "men and women can be manipulative, they're both wrong."
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/15 07:27 PM
1

It doesn't matter who regards what as what and waaa and bla bla bla and rhetoric What matters is teaching men (and women) to identify manipulation and then counter it. That's the actual practical side of all this you and I both agree with so done. There is nothing to discuss.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/15 07:24 PM
1

NOOOOO There is a positive thing here (becoming attractive, having other options, avoiding manipulation) This is positive TRP. I obviously support this over and over again and then there is a negative side some people use (crushing spouse's self esteem, forcing them to be one's slave) that is the topic of discussion. enough with the projecting eviiiiillll agendas and strawmen and jesus christ
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/15 07:17 PM
1

yeah because I was doing that ON PURPOSE /s unbelievable talent for cherrypicking. it's pretty damn clear that both men and women have been discussed as manipulative throughout this thread
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/15 07:14 PM
1

I agree Where are you getting this massive bitterness and urge to strawman everything?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/15 07:12 PM
1

ok let's go with the assumption that more women manipulate men than vice versa for a moment. Recommending that somebody do awful things to the opposite sex to "avenge men" (assuming this is what you mean) doesn't end the problem. It just keeps it going on and on, creating more bitterness in women, which drives them to become more cold/manipulative in response, which hurts men more, which makes them escalate... etc it's the worst arms race ever. By contrast, giving men the tools to understand how…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/15 08:52 AM
0

Easy. Those two people (assuming they're unattractive as mentioned, and obnoxious like stereotypical PUA's) get women who are attracted not to them, but to their cash. Hooker & John
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/15 08:30 AM
1

Oh I see Hm. If by manipulation you mean influencing behaviour, then yes, it sounds fine that way. But what we're talking about here is toxic manipulation: making someone feel like crap / forcing them to obey one's orders. The status quo has manipulative people on both sides. Whether it's more women doing it to men than vice versa isn't changing the overall idea here, which is: Manipulative assholes- both men and women- are bad and let's teach people to protect themselves from their manipulation…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/15 08:26 AM
0

what I said applied equally to men and women and I challenge anyone to find a single exception.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/15 07:55 AM
0

Sounds fair to me. Also: "The recipient will only continue to receive alimony provided that they actively seek employment, or prove to the court that they are incapable of any type of gainful work."
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/15 07:45 AM
3

Stereotypes exist for a reason. They reflect patterns people see over and over again in reality. The idea is "judging by most people's experiences, group X is likely to do Y" Obviously people in any group vary, so you can't be sure they'll automatically do Y just because their group tends to do it. Just 'cause some guy's in the music scene doesn't mean he does blow 3x a day Stereotypical behaviours (if they're bad) are something to look out for when you evaluate someone, yeah. In the end, it's y…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/15 07:13 AM
1

looks like you and she both are having fun and teasing is part of the play. looks like positive TRP to me
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/15 05:41 AM
0

the kinds of women who chase cash are the kinds who will divorce men for those and run off with the ones they actually want... lol status is a bit different I guess. still, a guy can be Emperor of the World and that won't make him any more physically appealing. Can't just make up for a lack of sexual attractiveness with a job title
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/15 08:26 PM
0

It's only after meeting him and finding out who he is that they would be interested. Yes, someone who's famous or rich becomes attractive in a sense. It makes them a target for women who are after cash and/or that social status, duh. No amount of cash is going to make a guy sexually attractive who isn't already.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/15 07:16 PM
0

no, girls can find a guy attractive who isn't moviestarlike --- bitterness/hatred aren't helping anyone get laid dude. isn't there this idea in PUA that women want a man who other women want? yeah. a man who other women want isn't one who has a reason to be bitter. Bitterness says "this guy is mad at women because he doesn't do well with them."
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/15 01:41 PM
1

Again dont what to piss in your corn flakes bt that not really the blue pill position. except it is.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/15 01:35 PM
-1

read past those 4 words
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/15 09:55 AM
3

well, bluepill = "just be yourself, be nice, you'll find your soulmate when you're least expecting it, you're fine just as you are" I think it's more redpillish/action-oriented to say "okay, I will work on becoming more attractive and less clingy/dependent on opposite sex validation, I'm going to meet a lot of people so I have options, I'm going to work on being more charismatic..." and ya, women can take the advice too.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/15 07:40 AM
2

no it's not ok for women to be manipulative. or men but once you know how to avoid the manipulation, that's problem solved dude. why be part of the problem after that?
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/15 05:17 AM
1

ok. if you don't believe me, have you tried asking others? how do you know the girls you made it with didn't find you attractive?
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/15 04:13 AM
1

oh I see. to be clear what I meant was the idea of negging/dragging down someone's self esteem to elevate oneself. is that no longer part of the TRP model?
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/15 04:03 AM
2

why downvote me when you're saying the same thing I am??
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/15 03:50 AM
2

make yourself attractive avoid manipulation/manipulative women done. once you do that, "AF/BB" is not a problem for you, and the bitterness will evaporate. if you want me to respond to you, stop being a rude dick. otherwise we're done.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/15 01:37 AM
2

there's a positive TRP ("make yourself hotter") and a toxic TRP ("in order to make her/him feel like shit and do whatever you tell them, lolololol")
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/15 01:31 AM
2

the idea of BB is "manipulative women finding chumps and leveraging their own sexuality to get cash out of them." the above advice is on how to avoid those women/that behaviour. so no, mission accomplished broski.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/15 01:25 AM
2

If you think you can explain AF/BB in a way that is both palatable and doesn't dilute the message, then go ahead. Same with the other concepts. This? Sure. Something like There are women who use sex to manipulate men. To avoid this, do we suggest not rushing into relationships. Early red flags to look out for are women who seem overly interested in your education/background/income. If soon after meeting you they eagerly and insistently press you for details beyond "I work in business, it's going…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/15 01:17 AM
2

let's go by way of analogy. there's a girl. lots of guys lead her on, lying about wanting relationships to get laid with her. so maybe she's going to think "all guys do that!!!" and paint you with the same brush that's not the right way, is it? you don't want to be assumed to be a criminal automatically, right? right. it's a poor mindset. so just teach her to avoid manipulative men/being manipulated by men, and suddenly the problem goes away. she has nothing to be bitter about, and the world's b…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/15 01:05 AM
3

it's right there in the name- the goal is to make someone feel dread/terror/anxiety. that's a classic toxic mindset a more positive mindset would be "I'm going to make myself look hot" and for some people it will be "having a partner who will look hot for me is high on my list, so I'll talk to her about it. if she's not up for it I'll move on to someone who is."
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/15 12:59 AM
1

yeah exactly
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/15 12:50 AM
1

if you mean teasing, then yeah it's good stuff but being condescending/scornful ("hah! you're such a child") is the toxic mindset we're talking about
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/15 12:45 AM
0

the thing is, once you know how manipulative people work, they don't have power over you anymore. so once a man figures out how to avoid/thwart manipulative women, problem solved. mission accomplished. done and done. if he then goes on to be manipulative to women, that's bitter/sour grapes/pointless
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/15 12:42 AM
1

I agree with like 98% of this, except this bit: an amused dbag is almost always better than being honest+sweet, I mean technically yeah, but acting like e.g. Sean Connery is better than either of those TRP would call it "masterful/amused with a positive mindset"
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/15 12:39 AM
1

understanding is not only fine, it's a good thing. there are women who try to use men, and TRP should teach men to avoid that. TRP should not encourage men to be manipulative dicks to women (or women to be manipulative dicks to men.) That's the main thing that gives it the stigma of being a sub all about hating the opposite sex
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/15 12:35 AM
3

if we define dread game as "looking attractive and having other options" then it's not dread game anymore, it's just looking attractive and having other options. if we define dread game as "manipulating someone to make them feel like crap/obey orders" that's the toxic side of TRP
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/15 12:31 AM
1

Wrong. The advice is Make yourself look attractive Bonus points: learn charisma Find girls who are giving you signals Talk to them (and that's a whole other story) This is what guys who get laid do. Bitter guys who look like slobs and approach women who aren't interested come off as socially clueless/weird/pushy and when they start negging or w/e it gets even worse
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/15 12:19 AM
1

"dread game" is popular in TRP. there's people in this thread who've confirmed it yeah, anyway sure, there's a reason a lot of men (and women) are frustrated with the opposite sex. but trashing them online isn't the way to deal with it. the behaviour drives people off and comes off as bitter
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/15 12:15 AM
2

if a girl doesn't find a man attractive, no amount of "game" will make her think otherwise. at best someone pulling PUA stuff will come off as ballsy, but socially clueless. now, if a girl already finds you attractive, then charisma (not "game", but actual charisma) will be a huge bonus point. suddenly you're hot and fun, and that's even better. hence before doing anything else, a man is better off making himself look attractive. then he can move on to charm
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/15 12:09 AM
0

you mean how would I recommend doing it? after grooming/hitting the gym/dressing nice, etc. go about your every day life, look for girls who are giving you signs like eye contact, hairplaying, standing near you on purpose and say "hey there" bonus points- say that with a sexy smirk and follow with "come here, there's something I want to tell you"
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/15 11:54 PM
-2

nobody becomes attractive by treating people like crap. that's something people who are already attractive/in-demand can get away with
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/15 11:48 PM
2

again dude, if the advice were "find people who like to be treated like children, then do that with them" then sure, fine. but going around treating everyone like that would be... 1) dickish 2) socially inept
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/15 11:40 PM
0

if some guy is shy/insecure/thinks women are better than him, then yes, actually talking to women will be a step closer to getting laid. and not treating women like superior beings (by being a dick) is also a step higher. know what's an even higher level than that? not treating people as better than you, at the same time not trying hard to neg them/be a dick to them to make oneself feel "higher up" people who are attractive and in-demand don't do that stuff. it comes off as poser/try hard behavi…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/15 11:36 PM
0

do you like being treated as a child?
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/15 11:33 PM
2

you're not disagreeing with me, though we both think that these models (hypergamy, AF/BB) are good for understanding how manipulative women work. and it's good to teach people in general how to avoid being used the part where some people say "and now, let's make you into a manipulative person also! and here's how!" is what's toxic
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/15 11:32 PM
0

Actually, you tell your fwb as soon as possible that you are not interested in relationship. Positive TRP. Good stuff Treat her like a child Toxic TRP (unless you phrase it as "find someone who likes to be dominated, then dominate her") lead, don't let her walk over you Positive TRP again
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/15 11:27 PM
3

you can teach men how to avoid manipulative women and stop at that, and people would get behind that. but then some TRP'ers go "okay and here's some ways you too should use to be horrible to people!" and that's where it all goes wrong.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/15 11:24 PM
0

Women are attracted to confidence and forwardness. Assholes have these in spades. If you act how you envision an asshole would then you'll be light years ahead of your current, supplicating, beta self. So, act like an asshole and you'll get laid. see, that's the mindset I'm talking about. if TRP instead recommended this: Women are attracted to confidence and non-clinginess, you should act confident and non clingy and here are some ways to do that (without acting like a try-hard or annoying dick)…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/15 11:21 PM
1

TRP having a bad image is keeping itself from delivering valuable messages to people. I guess if you don't care about people, then yeah whatever
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/15 11:16 PM
-2

no it doesn't work. this is like when women say "all men go for icy bitches, so you should act like one to get men." this is the kernel of truth in what you're saying: men who treat women like normal people, instead of superior angelic beings, do better with them. and here's the reality behind "men go for icy bitches" or "women go for assholes" attractive, in-demand men and women can get away with treating women/men like shit, because they're attractive.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/15 11:14 PM
0

Positive TRP is more along the lines of... fix'd
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/15 11:07 PM
5

I agree. understanding how manipulative people work is positive. now you can avoid the trap. but a lot of TRP goes beyond that and advocates being horrible to the opposite sex. hence the massive image problem
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/15 11:04 PM
4

here is a comment you and I have heard dozens of times: "be an asshole to girls and you'll get laid lol" "just dump that bitch lol. she'll come crawling back" and vice-versa said by man-hating women. they're such common comments, they don't need to be individually linked.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/15 10:50 PM
4

woman/man-hating is exactly what I'm talking about. female then male example: https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3ganqp/female_strategic_response_to_trp_pua/ https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2008/03/27/dread/ and things like "women are all whores, f**k 'em and toss 'em" (recurring theme in TRP spaces) and "men are all pigs lol they deserve to get chump'd" (recurring theme in the TRP-like female spaces)
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/15 10:44 PM
4

wrong. positive = what men and women like toxic = what men and women find toxic/manipulative
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/15 10:33 PM
1

both sides there are wrong, and both have an unnatural hatred of the opposite sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/15 09:50 PM
1

This is just... pardon my french... incredibly fucking stupid Never sleep with a guy unless he's spent a significant amount of resources on you (money, time, effort). Generally -- just don't have sex. Sex should happen at the same time as commitment. Really So you're treating sex as a bargaining tool, yourself as a hooker, and the guy you're supposedly attracted to as a john. A man who's hot enough to attract you isn't going to put up with this manipulative crap. And the man who will, is going t…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/15 09:38 PM
7

Or men only dare to challenge their ex-wives for custody when they feel they have a rock-solid case, because otherwise they haven't the slightest chance of winning.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/15 09:00 PM
1

moved here http://tinyurl.com/nt7lmzp hm... well, I'd encourage more men to work on being sexually attractive to women and put aside the entitled mindset. I'd encourage women to be more independent and go for men they're actually attracted to, and avoid sex <-> cash exchange relationships like the plague.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/15 07:51 AM
2

anecdotally, many many men think that being nice to a woman is a way to get laid with her. that's clearly misguided– being nice is just a basic human prereq. nobody's creaming their pants from that $5 bill you gave to that hobo that one time. (some more fruitful avenues to explore are appearance, voice, and charm) but and this is a huge but society constantly encourages men to do "nice guy" things in hopes of getting laid. men are told to wine & dine, buy women expensive things, pedestalize them…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/15 07:48 AM
1

ikr my eyes just sorta glazed over
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/15 07:04 AM
4

backdoor sluts 9 oh jesus, not that one!
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/15 06:57 AM
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