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View 6 posts and 1,641 comments by grendalor on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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-1

Okay, but seriously why are these short guys choosing to try to meet women in bars and clubs, which are well-known for being extremely harsh environments for any man who doesn't meet a certain physical standard to begin with? It's just a dumb use of their time. Why choose what's probably the hardest way to meet women for guys like that and then complain when they fail at it? Yes, women can be harsh, but in part it's because everyone in the picture, men and women alike, know that guys like that h…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/24 10:07 AM
5

Just being honest actually is the best approach for pure recreational sex. Some women will still dislike being propositioned, but you have clean hands as long as you’re honest and take no for an answer without fuss. Keep in mind, though, that your success rate in obtaining pure recreational sex will be very low unless you’re a very objectively attractive guy, and even they get rejected for pure casual often enough.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/03/24 08:49 AM
–

Women and men have different libidos, different sex drives. Men crave sex more consistently, exceptions aside, than women, so there is an imbalance in demand for both sex and relationships (because for most men, sex only happens in relationships), which means women are pickier because they can be. That will never basically change. Comparison to gay men makes no sense, because gay men are men, and therefore crave sex the way other men do, so there is no imbalance of demand in that market, and it’…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/24 11:03 AM
3

What I think is true is that most women end up falling in love with men they didn’t find physically attractive at first. ​ This is often correct, although not always the case. But ... it's almost never (there are always exceptions, but for this it's really rare) the case for men, which is why it appears so glaringly different to men, and why it gets attention I think. ​ Also I think most men never get to know what is having a woman thinking you are handsome beyond your partner at the moment. ​ Y…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/06/23 11:21 AM
2

Basically this is true for a lot of guys, in a visceral sense, when they are young and primarily seeking sexual liaisons. It is not true when guys are looking for a marriage partner, but men and women both select marriage partners differently than they select pure bed partners. I think the sexes project each others experiences and preferences onto the other when discussing pure sexual attraction issues, however. Women don't "value" fkbois for more than sex, so they don't think it's any great thi…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/06/23 11:11 AM
3

Keep in mind that "hypergamy" does not mean "tendency to optimize". Every human being tends to optimize (prefer best they can get). That is not what hypergamy means. Hypergamy means that the minimum acceptable is higher than one's own level or, at the very least in a pinch, equal to it. Men are not actually hypergamous. They optimize, yes -- but everyone optimizes about everything, it is a human trait. Men will happily accept a woman who is "below" them in any number of areas, provided she is ov…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/23 02:31 PM
3

Men with a low sexual drive are not harassing women and chasing them for sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/06/23 02:48 PM
3

You seem to be fairly convinced of quite a number of things. Most of the pressure coming from men sexually isn't primarily due to virgin shaming, it's mostly due to horniness. It's the same pressure that drives the size of the porn industry, that supports prostitution, etcc -- which is not based on one achieving status by looking at porn or patronizing prostitutes, but simply has to do with horniness being excessive due to high levels of testosterone. Virgin shaming (ie, the desire to get rid of…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/06/23 02:41 PM
8

The main thing, I would guess, stopping them is that it's well known that the main audience for such material is gay men and not hetero women. If you're okay with making money by posting pics for gay men and flirting with them on OF, then I suppose you end up doing it, but I would guess most straight men are not up for that, in fact. Women are not an audience for this kind of material.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/06/23 12:20 PM
5

Um, dating certainly is an area for social justice movements. There have been massive changes to the dating and mating environments that have come about through social activism, moving the boundaries of what is and what is not acceptable, what kinds of relationships, approaches, sex, etc. All of it. It's a keen focus of the social justice movements since the 1970s, clearly. "The personal is political", after all -- the entirety of the relationship between men and women has been made the explict …
/r/PurplePillDebate02/06/23 09:31 AM
3

When thinking about these kinds of things, you have to address the spectrum of the male population in total. There have always been, and always will be, men motivated to achieve for their own purposes -- pride, greed, competitiveness, raw ambition, lust for power and dominance, and so on. These men exist today, too, and they always will exist. They are not motivated, generally, by sex. Sex finds them, for the most part, but they are not motivated by it. Then, however, there is the mass of the me…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/06/23 08:30 AM
2

55, M, married Impressions It's the internet. And it's a self-selected group, people who have strong opinions about relationships between men and women, and among the younger people especially, men who have struggled, or who are still struggling, in this area. But the quality of the conversations is what you'd expect on the internet. The places on the internet that have actual quality conversations is tiny, for reasons almost all of us are now very familiar with. ​ What do they have to deal with…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/06/23 12:11 AM
8

Seems like a logical extension to sex work, just on the emotional plane. I think with the rise of otherwise mainstream women becoming involved with OF and similar, it was likely that this kind of thing , which offers virtual emotional intimacy, would follow. I suspect it isn’t that different from how some of the creators on OF deal with their clients already, so it likely isn’t much of a stretch towards this as another source of income. It’s unfortunate that it contributes to the terrible messag…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/05/23 06:33 PM
1

One of the phenomena frequently observed online is that the online world, by its nature, has the ability to aggregate together in one virtual space what is in any one physical space a small number of people. This means that the virtual face of some relatively fringe phenomena is much more robust than the phenomena actually are in real life in any one physical space (leaving aside outlier physical spaces which are, themselves, self-selected), and this can give one the misleading impression that t…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/05/23 03:17 PM
8

Hierarchy isn't herd. Herd is like ... fashion. Trends. Men are all about joining a team that competes with other male teams, where each team is arranged in a functional hierarchy -- military, sports team, corporate hierarchy. It's a different paradigm. Of course, not all men are in such hierarchies today -- not at all. But it's kind of a typical male paradigm, whereas the typical female paradigm is "flatter" hierarchy, with a lot of peer social pressure. It's just two different patterns.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/05/23 02:36 PM
14

This is off topic but most guys don't pay for onlyfans, if they do, they do it to try and interact directly with the woman which is pathetic. The women who take advantage of these guys are the same as guys who go after girls that get drunk at areas for sex. ​ Eh, no. Men who use sex workers are not the same as women who are raped because they could not consent to sex. Men who choose to use sex workers, OF or otherwise, are making their own choices -- they are choosing to abuse themselves, and th…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/05/23 10:24 AM
3

Not true in most places in the US at least. In most places, in that fact pattern, the question would be whether it was reasonable for a reasonable person (not you, a theoretical reason person) to conclude that she was capable of consenting, and in most cases if she is visibly drunk the legal standard is that it is unreasonable to conclude she is capable of consenting, period. Consent is simply impossible once she's drunk, and any sex that takes place based on a drunken consent is rape. Be very c…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/05/23 10:21 AM
42

Honestly, as a guy, I've never understood how so many men are so easily fooled by makeup. I mean obviously, many are, to the point that I have given up correcting guys who say "look at how pretty she is, she isn't even wearing makeup!", when even a cursory glance easily reveals standard, "daily driver" type makeup application that is very easy to discern. I can only guess that these guys didn't have sisters, didn't pay attention to their mothers (or their mothers never let them see their non-mak…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/05/23 10:17 AM
1

I think the disconnect people are having with what you've written is the suggestion that people don't focus on the physical connection before getting into compatibility assessments. The reason is that it doesn't really work if you do it the other way. That is, if you are not attracted to someone (and not just kinda sorta, but if you're not hot for them), it isn't going to develop later on if you end up being compatible with them after getting to know them better, and you may end up with someone …
/r/PurplePillDebate26/05/23 10:11 PM
3

I am not red pill and not blue pill. Some things each hold are correct, neither (in my view) is "correct" in every respect, or more broadly in the sense of being a correct overall philosophy or something like that. In the current year, there is a very strong temptation for every single aspect of our lives to be brought into some kind of lockstep alignment with an idea we have in our heads about what our values are, or what kind of person we want to seem to be (even to ourselves), that this can o…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/05/23 11:12 AM
2

He's right in the basic substance in that thought, but I wouldn't use the word transactional. A long term relationship is an ongoing thing, it isn't like every instance of sex that takes place in it is its own transaction, or part of a global transaction. To me the better way of expressing the same basic idea is that the sex that takes place in relationships is conditional upon the man meeting other factors apart from raw sexual attraction, because these other factors are what go into the women …
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/23 11:10 PM
1

"Expected average" is the crux here. What you're saying is that men are falling behind women, and aren't living up to expectations. That may be true -- it certainly is true in terms of education. It's somewhat less true in terms of income, but there's variance there depending on where you are talking about. And in general, women have more upward trajectory in our culture and society than men do. So I can see the case that men's actual average is not what women want it to be. But that's quite dif…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/23 11:17 AM
2

Manhattan is your problem, probably. I was also a young professional like you in Manhattan in the early 90s, and it wasn't very different then. You're in an odd spot in Manhattan culture where objectively, on a national basis, you're very competitive, but the scale for your social class in Manhattan has you at the bottom of its own totem pole. It's hard for people who have never been in that situation to understand how it works, but it's very real, because it isn't like many people date across t…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/23 11:08 AM
1

Generally when men are talking about "mid" women they mean 4-6 on the 1-10 scale, not only 5s. And in any case, the same reasoning applies to female 5s as it does to female 6s, although the men in question are typically male 7s rather than male 8s. It's still just about the numbers who are willing to engage, given that only a small percentage of women are interested in casual sex, it is simply easier to find one at a lower level (generally -2 on the scale, sometimes -3) than at the same level, g…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/23 12:15 AM
1

First of all, 1s and 2s are not mids, and so the entire point of your OP, presumably, was not about 1s and 2s. Everyone agrees 1s and 2s are not sleeping with male 7s for casual or otherwise. A female 6 is a mid. Why would a male 8 sleep with a female 6 for casual when there are 7s and 8s? Looks are distributed on a Gaussian bell curve, so there are many more 6s than there are 8s of either sex. And, as you say, a much lower percentage of women are interested in casual than men. So the same low p…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/05/23 11:55 PM
1

Do you want to? Is it your kink? Basically that's an offer to engage in their kink (cuckold or cuckqueen). It's not as widely practiced as the now more common kinks like BDSM, but BDSM also wasn't always so widely practiced either -- the needle moves on these things, in terms of how common they are. Is this a kink of yours? If not, are you still interested in providing the "frisson" of the kink to them, both to the person who is participating in the sex and the person who is watching (who often …
/r/PurplePillDebate24/05/23 09:04 PM
12

On height ... What it means is that the pool is smaller for you. Yes, women all pretty much prefer tall men. But not all will exclude short men whom they otherwise like. Many will, but not all. So you do have a pool who will not exclude you for your height, it's just a smaller pool, and generally many of the attractive women, in a conventional sense, are not in it. There are still some attractive women in the pool, though, and the most attractive short guys pair up with these women, while the re…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/05/23 12:03 AM
4

If you're arguing that they should be considered romantic relationships based on a "social construct" theory, that is simply a socio-political argument that rises or falls based on persuasiveness, and generally it has to be in an area that people care enough about to consider adopting a new socially constructed view. I am not sure FWBs, being something most people don't engage in to begin with, really rise to that level. Generally people either are the type who have FWBs, in which case they will…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/23 09:11 PM
1

What's tripping up the responses here is the word "average", which means something very different to each person. Most people don't hew to an objective use of the word "average" in this area. In my experience, only a small percentage of men can regularly pickup women they don't already have a connection to in a "meet market" situation (which is what a bar or club is). In general, bars and clubs have declined in terms of being the primary channel for casual sex partners, due to the rise of hookup…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/23 02:56 PM
8

I'm not RP, but many men like Bezos are fairly easily manipulated by women. They are good at becoming self-made billionaires, but that skill set doesn't always (or, in fact, most of the time does not at all) translate into a lot of social intelligence when it comes to dating, mating and interacting with the opposite sex. ​ Bezos is quite obviously being used by Sanchez, whom he personally saw as a "hotness" upgrade from his first wife (attractive when younger but not porn-esque like Sanchez is),…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/23 11:13 AM
2

I agree with your main point -- no question it has amplified the market power of women. But that market power was already tangibly increased in the 1990s, when I was in my early 20s, from what it had been in prior generations, simply because of the reduced pressure on women to pair off, which, when coupled with men's general sexual urgency, drove up their value. The roots of the dating market now were all in place circa 1995, but the technology has amplified those roots to create the market we s…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 08:37 PM
1

It's not over-inflated, it has precisely the value that the market assigns to it. For a small percentage of women, that involves thousands or more social media followers, an army of simps on Twitch and Insta and so on ... and they have the value to generate that demand, otherwise the demand would not be there. But this is a small portion of women ... most women are not Insta models or e-girls or what have you. ​ Attractive young women who are not in that category still have the highest market va…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 04:50 PM
10

Lots of comments about not being approached irl. On that specific point, irl approaches are very disfavored now. I don't think it was so much "metoo" (that was mostly work related) as dating apps that did this in, and women increasingly finding it creepy for men to approach them irl, this news getting around to men, and basically the practice more or less dying out apart from "meet market" contexts where approaching is expected. So the fact that you aren't getting approached irl in 2023 doesn't …
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 12:46 PM
4

Hookers also don't fix the underlying issue, which is the desire to be desired. Hookers don't desire you, they just perform a service for you. And, really, it's a very expensive assisted masturbation service, when you come down to it. You can't buy desire.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 12:28 PM
7

It's only a market failure for men, though. Women, for all of their complaints about "where have the good men gone?", are less lonely than men are and, based on their market behavior, more content with not having *any* man then they are with settling for a man who does not meet their standards. This is because they are not as needy in this regard as men are -- they desire a good man for a relationship, but they don't feel the pressing sexual need men typically do, nor do they feel loneliness nea…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 10:27 AM
3

Yeah, true. Category (2) are the true unfortunates, and if you're in that category it's tough, but it's still best, as you say, to find a way to cope that doesn't involve wallowing in the problem and instead finding other things to focus on in life that are not related to this area.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 12:32 AM
8

How is it crashing? Markets crash when people who were willing to pay high prices (buyers -- men in the dating market) stop paying high prices, and so the price crashes. That's what a market "crash" is. Women are clearly not lowering their market "price" (ie, what they are asking for in the market), so there is no market crash. If women were being forced to lower their "ask", the market would be crashing -- but that isn't what is happening. Men are still paying the high price that women are dema…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 12:27 AM
25

The problem with your theory is the word "unrealistic". The market is the market. Your value in the market is what the market tells you your value is. Women are not "unrealistic" by exercising their power in the market -- the power that the market gives them by the feedback it gives them (ie, what "pricing" they can escalate to while still finding someone who will engage with them in the market). Women's market power increased due to their financial independence of men -- both of men in their fa…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 11:22 PM
–

Sex isn't a need. Men have a strong sex drive, but it can be slaked via masturbation -- it's just that men don't like the ego hit of not being desired by attractive women for sex. And not all men masturbate as much anyway. On average it's more than women do, but there's a lot of variance for both sexes, and in general women are masturbating more in younger generations now than, say, 50 years ago, so it's more dynamic than static and impacted by a lot of social factors as well as the hormonal one…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 08:05 PM
1

For older guys who are in the market, yes. ​ I mean, no doubt, if you can manage to be one of those guys (the few older guys who are quite attractive), you do very well, because you have almost no competition in your age range and, like the lovelier older women, you can (and likely do), date younger fairly easily, and so you have access to a larger number of attractive women, and you aren't subject to the scarcity issue that older men who are merely average are subject to. ​ Average is over, as …
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 09:58 AM
5

I think the main benefit from "trying" (by which I mean trying to do things that improve your odds of success -- some combination of self-improvement and social engagement, generally) is that it is an important item to eliminate as a cause of your problems. If you don't actually give it a "good try", you won't know whether you're failure results from not really trying or from something else. So giving it a good try for a while and seeing what happens are important to eliminate that as the reason…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/05/23 11:11 PM
7

The issue is with your premise -- that more and more men get their act together over time. That actually isn't the case, generally. It's true that there are more men at 30 who have their act together than at 20, but many of those are no longer in the market, either, which means you aren't competing with them. If you add value, and have put in the work, things are indeed easier in your 30s than in your 20s ... but you have to have put in the work. It doesn't happen just because you're older. If y…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/05/23 10:40 PM
1

They are on dating apps -- the stats say that most straight couples met online, and in 2023 that means dating apps mostly. But in any case, attractive women are constantly approached in real life whenever they are in situations where such approaches are not prohibited or very much frowned upon (and sometimes even in those situations as well).
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/23 07:50 PM
1

I agree that men in particular are better off without OLD, but the problem is that pretty much all dating/mating/meeting people these days takes place at the very least "in the shadow of" OLD. So even if you are meeting someone IRL outside of OLD, that meeting is still taking place "in the shadow of" OLD ... people are still comparing, in the back of their minds, the people around them on the camping trip, or at the book club or what have you, to the universe of people on OLD apps, and doing a w…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/05/23 12:47 PM
2

I think people prefer having more choices, even if, on some level, they know that having more choices creates other problems -- it's kind of viewed as "good problems to have", rather than having fewer choices, which is almost universally viewed as a worse situation, even if, in fact, people are happier with fewer options.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/05/23 12:41 PM
11

My son has spent quite a bit of time in Eastern Europe, especially before Ukraine blew up and basically made travel to the former Soviet world dicey. He dated women from a few countries there. He now lives in a Western European country and is dating an Eastern European student at a Western European university (he is no longer a student but also in his 20s). He hasn't dated American women since he first lived in Eastern Europe for a while during college. Based on my own observations traveling the…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/05/23 11:48 PM
–

Only responding to a few of these .. ​ -How men find 18 year old's attractive when they're past the age of 20. Gives me a weird feeling and yes I do judge men based on this. Perfectly normal, as these are sexually mature, adult females. Young, yes, but adults and close to peak fertility, which is what drives male sexual attraction. Now, it's unhealthy when guys are obsessed with very young women, and it's also inappropriate (in my view) for men over a certain age (but it's older than 20 lol, wtf…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/05/23 09:38 AM
1

Flirting, kind of coolly if I am not interested. Otherwise it would be misleading (to me, I know others don't view flirting that way, YMMV). Friendly, it's fine, and friendly back as well, I do not treat them like lepers or anything like that.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/23 05:04 PM
3

I think what OLD does is make things more explicit and, perhaps, more extreme in outcome due to the brutalist architecture of the app designs. Clearly average men will do well to avoid dating apps -- no argument there, for this reason. And that makes OLD worse (for men) for this reason, I agree. But I also think that, while average men in particular do well to avoid OLD due to the problem of how it plays out, the underlying dynamic in IRL dating is essentially the same -- you do get feedback fro…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/23 03:25 PM
5

I think it's more the case that people are not attracted to the person who is their actual "peer", based on market evaluations of what that means, because it's the market standard that matters, not some abstract measurement of this or that average. That is, dating and mating play out in a market, and that means the primary impacts are supply and demand. While it's true that men with higher scores in the areas you mention will generate more demand than those who don't, the overall market situatio…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/23 03:02 PM
2

It's a true observation. I remember reading an article in the New York Times about this kind of thing around 10 or so years ago, where a bisexual woman admitted that she was attracted to men and women differently in terms of viscerality. For the men she was attracted to, it was about status and power and how that reflected on her own desirability -- on being the kind of woman who attracted and aroused a man of a certain status and power. For the women, however, it was about how sexually attracti…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/23 09:41 AM
1

I can agree to the extent that it's just organic flirting and seeing if it leads anywhere. That's more or less fine, and can be done anywhere, provided that the guy doing it is not overly pushy if the woman responds negatively (or is simply creeped out by it, which some will be, especially younger women who are much less open to non-electronic communication). But I don't think it's a good idea to go out specifically to walk around and cold approach women ... that's a mistake. It's inorganic and …
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/23 09:35 AM
2

Nah. Much more to life than partner sex with women. Much more. So many things to experience. I do think it may be fruitful at some point in the future for men to be able to reduce their sex drive, if they wish, through prescription meds which do not have massive negative side effects (these do not exist really right now), which is what some of the "transmaxx" people have been trying to do by abusing gender transition scripts in that way. I think it would be useful to create meds that gave men th…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/23 08:22 PM
4

I think what's going on here is that you're expecting women to be like gay men -- to have male kind of desire, just directed towards men. If that were the case, though, they wouldn't be women, they'd be ... gay men. Gay men have the same *kind* of desire straight men do -- the same intensity, physicality, viscerality, universality, etc., but it's directed towards men and not women. You can't expect women to be like that, because they are not men, and their desire doesn't work like male desire do…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/23 05:21 PM
3

It's a bit funny that your comment below says most women who are feminists are not attractive, and then this one is complaining about how unattractive men (short = unattractive, all else being equal) are hurt by feminism. Pots and kettles I guess. Short guys probably do have it marginally worse, but that's because women are no longer forced to pick them as mates if they have better options, which means short guys generally get much less attractive mates than they did under the earlier system. Bu…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/23 09:59 AM
–

He's not near the region now, but in the 5 years or so prior to the war he was in that area generally -- former Soviet (Russia mostly, but also the former Soviet countries in Transcaucasia). He's now elsewhere, and doing fine because he's flexible and young, but some of the language skill is gathering a bit of dust unfortunately (he's developing other ones though).
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/23 11:36 AM
–

My son is taking that approach, although it's the "high end" version of passport bro-ing, and it's something that he planned to do starting in his teen years, when he was collecting other country passports he was eligible for so that he could live in various places without work permitting being required. Issues relating to dating and so on were never the primary or sole motivation (a more general sense of malaise about the direction of the country was, and is), but they were a part of it since h…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/23 10:28 AM
–

I agree. And it's okay, btw, if guys decide to sit out. It's not like every guy can attract women he finds attractive, even after improving himself. But if you're in that situation, it's better to sit out, to not play at all, than it is to simp and settle. Just accept your limitations and move on to other things in life.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/23 12:18 AM
3

The imbalance is not due to fuckboys or men looking for casual sex. Even if you screen those out (which you can), there is a massive imbalance in demand -- that is when you're comparing (1) women looking for relationships and (2) men looking for relationships (and screen out the fuckboys), there's still a massive imbalance. The reason for that is that there is a biology-based imbalance in raw desire between men and women -- men desire women more than women desire men (that is, they are attracted…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/23 10:15 PM
1

It's not a reasonable expectation. Men and women desire different things in this specific area (dating and mating), and so it isn't reasonable for men to expect sympathy from women for the fact that men aren't getting what they want, when their "want" is not considered a legitimate one by many women to begin with (either because it's "wanting out of their league" or "wanting casual sex which is always going to be harder to get" or something similar). The two sexes are really different about this…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/05/23 07:32 PM
–

In a relationship, generally looks are important, but how important they are depends on what sort of relationship I assess it to be, in terms of potential, from the outset. Looks are more important for a relationship that is longer-term, because it is the person you are with over the longer-term, and therefore you want that person to be quite attractive in that area for the long term in your eyes -- and, of course, for longer term relationships, other things are also important, especially if it …
/r/PurplePillDebate02/05/23 09:11 AM
6

If men find 80% of women around their age attractive (how can they even focus on their work if that's the case? my respect for their ability to stay cool) we really have very diferent standards, which will make men always chase after women, whereas women will only chase after the very few guys who are attractive to them Yes, that's precisely the difference. Men are more attracted to more women than vice versa, quite substantially. How do we work? Well, that's why we have eleventy-one rules about…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/23 03:27 PM
3

In my experience, although it varies (because you can't correctly generalize for every single member of 50% of the population), generally the answer to "1" is "no, women much more easily see men as friends without being in any way romantically or sexually attracted to them". Guys have a hard time relating to that, I think, and tend to be more like what you have written there, whereas for women the "attraction" part is much less commonly present in any population of men, and so women are much mor…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/23 03:18 PM
2

No, I am a guy, and from my perspective having watched guys do this my whole life, it's the guys who set themselves up for this by not really wanting to be friends, but wanting something more. 9/10, the guy's interest in the woman is always at least somewhat sexual from the first interaction, so almost all of the time he simply isn't being honest about what he wants, and is trying to bide his time, and insinuate himself by taking the friend role and "seeing what happens". That's a bad strategy, …
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/23 03:10 PM
3

Women would have it easy if they were interested in the same things men are, yes, but generally they are not, so it is perceived differently by them for the most part. But, in general, yes, women have it easier in the dating market, due to the imbalance in desire. Note that this is not just in the "short term" market, but also in the "relationship" market, because for most "average" men, the relationship market *is* the sex market (because most average men only have access to unpaid sex in the c…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/23 09:28 PM
1

A few things are going on in situations like that. One is that women tend to be more influenced in their evaluation of the attractiveness of man by things like that (what he says, what he is observed doing) than men are -- men are more likely to disqualify based on those things, if they are very big red flags (or not at all, if the woman is visually attractive enough), but otherwise do not look to "qualify" a woman as attractive based on these elements. With women, often for men who are not at t…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/23 09:24 PM
1

Men do overestimate their value, because men who complain about such things are generally focused on some kind of abstract idea of what matches what, rather than the actual pricing and value that the market (women) have assigned to men, which is lower because women have market power due to the imbalance in desire between the sexes. So, yes, men overestimate their value. A man’s value is reflected by the value of the kinds of women he is capable of attracting, simple as that. Any other value is a…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/23 06:56 PM
2

The problem with the theory is that it overlooks that you're not limited to OLD. You do have niches. They still exist. You have to cultivate them, though, in person, and you have to actually be in the niche. And you have to participate in things other people in your niche do, so you can meet them and so on. And ... the pool in a niche community is smaller, so while your ability to find a woman who is interested increases somewhat, since the pool is smaller, your own flexibility in terms of her c…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/23 03:37 PM
1

Yes, men benefit a lot from gender equality. Among other things it has reduced social pressure on men to conform -- if you want to live an unconventional life, you can easily do so without it having a lot of nasty repercussions on things like your work or professional life (which, under the prior social order, was not the case -- preferences were clearly for married men with children, and older single men were suspected and not favored in the workplace or socially etc). Things are more open and …
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/23 09:39 AM
2

I think the problem lots of guys have is that they tend to view things in an "idealized" or "abstract" way ( you see this with red pill guys a lot), rather than a "real" or "market" way. So in other words, guys have this abstract "scale" where they "rate" themselves and women and have an idea of where the "matching level" is, and that's where they set their expectations. This goes sideways in two ways, I think. One is that men tend to overrate themselves in this scale, as you rightly note -- tha…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/23 09:23 AM
1

Replace? No. Never for a majority, at least not this side of a true dystopia (which is always among the realm of possibilities, although not the most likely one). But it doesn't have to replace for a majority in order to have a mass impact, just as we see with porn today. Very realistic VR sex with haptic accoutrements, believable AI interaction and so on will have an impact on enough of a slice of men to have a ripple effect on the entire market. The effect of that impact, however, is less clea…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/04/23 10:02 PM
1

Those are different things I think, in terms of how they are viewed. Most of the sites on OnlyFans are like Instagram+ -- it's modeling that is slightly more racy than Instagram in most cases. And I think most guys are okay with that if they can actually manage to attract and have a relationship with a woman who is attractive enough to have a successful OnlyFans page. Sex work, like prostitution, is a harder line for many to cross, for reasons of disease and legal risk, among other things. I thi…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/04/23 01:15 PM
1

Yeah I'm not going to read the large number of comments ... sorry. ​ I have scanned through your own comments on a search. ​ Yes, there is a risk that a man leaves you for a younger, hotter woman. It happens. It more often happens that the mistress gets stiffed because the man doesn't actually want to leave his wife and kids, he just wants a side piece -- which is why women are well advised not to be the "OW". But sure there's a risk. ​ Yes, we will marry the hottest woman we can get, that's tru…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/19 08:01 PM
1

Except a woman's love is always guaranteed.... providing you still provide her with what she wants. A man's love on the other hand is always guaranteed to wain. The consequence of men loving you for who you *are* is that they love you less when you're a wrinkled post wall woman. You can scream "Wife Goggles" at me, and sure, most men continue to be able to get it up for their wives, but being able to fuck your wife doesn't mean you wouldn't much rather be fucking 18 yo Jennifer from the local hi…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/19 03:08 PM
2

I do know a few, of each sex. They are a mix. ​ The ones who are happy are the ones who are generally well-adjusted, well-turned out, social, and engaged with the world and just don't want to be married -- in other words, they could easily have married someone great if they wanted to, but they just didn't want to be married, and it was a positive choice for them. They tend to have either very involved hobbies, or a lot of social engagements, or a lot of travel, or some combination thereof. ​ The…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/19 02:09 PM
18

Yeah, well, Berlinski has her views, but she's a "minority report", to say the least, among women. Much more likely that things continue along with the moral panic she writes about than that anyone, not least of which women themselves, will try to stop it somehow. It will run for a while -- who knows how long -- and it will have some impact on behaviors but not too much, I think. It will eventually blow over, whenever it does, and it will be pretty much the same for the rank-and-file as it is no…
/r/TheRedPill11/12/17 02:58 PM
1

Eh well it has a lot to do with the ages in question. Fact is that at 19 guys don't have a lot going on so even if they are good looking like Jay here, they don't have much else going on (and Jay here doesn't seem to have frame or game either -- based on how he is kowtowing to a woman who is -3 SMV wise), so their overall SMV is lower than their pure appearance suggests. Jay needs to develop further and by the time he's in his mid 20s, developed some game, self improved, knows how to maintain fr…
/r/TheRedPill08/12/17 08:18 PM
4

Poly will be bigger than it is now, I think, but it will never take over. Why? Human sexual jealousy is at least as old as human sexual urges are, and only a small portion of people are able (or even willing) to overcome it -- and that's people of both sexes.
/r/TheRedPill30/11/17 08:53 PM
1

So, pickier, yes, but still less picky than a woman typically is. Sure, when a guy is selecting a wife unless he's a moron there are many more things that go into it than if he's selecting a short term sex partner. That's obvious. And in today's upwardly mobile socio-economic class, it's expected to marry someone of your own socio-economic level in terms of education, earnings and so on -- that's true. But he's still less picky, on average, even in that scenario, which is inherently more picky t…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/17 02:01 PM
1

The difference in pickiness does get much closer when you are talking about LTRs, I'd agree, but women are still pickier -- the delta in pickiness is smaller, however.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/17 01:44 PM
4

The difference is where the "floor" lies. Everyone tries to optimize -- that isn't hypergamy. The difference is that while men also try to optimize, they are also attracted to a wider variety of women, not just the optimal ones, and they will accept a less than optimal woman if she has the virtue of being available when the optimal ones are not. Women, not really -- women are not attracted to sub-optimal, at least not enough to bother or prefer the sub-optimal to being alone for the time being. …
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/17 01:33 PM
1

It's simpler than it is for women, but it isn't as simple as that. An unattractive woman touching a man there will not result in an erection because she is unattractive, and that works against the physical activity that is taking place. It isn't automatically the result of physical stimulus. It seems a lot of women seem to think that it is -- I can only guess that this is because when they have been physically intimate with a man, that man is attracted to them, so it isn't an issue. The comparis…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/17 05:06 PM
1

If the transwoman is pre-op or non-op and passes as a woman and is not in an environment where it's obvious that most of the people present are transwomen, then it's on the transwoman to disclose. The reason is that the guy has literally no way of knowing that she is trans in that situation, and there's a pretty good risk that if the guy is not specifically seeking out a pre-op/non-op transwoman he isn't interested in being with one, at least from the sexual point of view. By contrast, if the tr…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/17 03:17 PM
1

That can be easier said than done, at least for quite a few men. Sexual attraction isn't really something that can be adjusted deliberately for men -- she either passes the erection test or she doesn't. Viagra doesn't actually give you erections for someone you otherwise wouldn't get an erection for -- it simply removes physical impediments, like blood flow, that physically are interfering with an erection that otherwise would be taking place. While I think it's true that men have broader attrac…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/17 03:05 PM
1

I agree with pretty much everything you wrote there.
/r/TheRedPill23/06/17 08:32 PM
2

Except it's like Leonidas says. Women want to get laid just for the sake of getting laid, too. Especially if they have a "reliable guy" already on the hook -- the other guys are for sex, plain and simple, and they are chosen on that basis. The fact that he isn't hanging around is a feature for her, not a bug, because she gets the dick she wants on her terms -- she's not looking for an LTR, she's looking for hot dick to fuck her on her terms.
/r/TheRedPill23/06/17 02:47 PM
2

Women don't need beta bux, they are their own beta bux now, increasingly. This will increase as women continue to graduate from college in higher numbers, until automation really begins to impact the white collar sector, and then all bets are off (we will have to come up with a broader socio-economic solution for that anyway, really).
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/17 04:14 PM
1

It will never render romantic interaction with the other sex pointless for almost all people. For the people who struggle a lot with the other sex, it will be an outlet, just like porn addiction currently is. It will have, therefore, an impact on the margins, but not on most people or on the market as a whole.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/17 01:44 PM
1

Nope, never been a particular interest of mine.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/17 01:42 PM
1

It very much depends on the person. There are some people who are capable of being attracted to (and therefore happy with -- let's assume that couples which are happy with each other are attracted to each other) people who are conventionally unattractive, and others who are not. I have found that this does not correlate with whether that person in question is conventionally attractive or conventionally unattractive, themselves. Some people have an "attraction floor" and others do not, and this d…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/17 06:20 PM
1

Legalize and regulate. Safer for everyone. Has little to no impact on dating market, helps men who need a quick lay for whatever reason, helps women who need a quick buck for whatever reason. Win, win scenario, really. Not my cup of tea personally, but whatever floats your boat.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/17 09:12 PM
1

lessens the amount of sex she has with him Likely in most of these situations, I think. There's only so much energy and time for sex and romance that a couple has, and if (typically) the wife is devoting a portion (or, likely, almost all, due to the "newness"/"hot&heavy"/limerance effect) of that time and energy outside the marriage, not much is left to be used inside the marriage. The time and energy for sex and romance is being spent outside the marriage, and inside the marriage there is less …
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/17 12:28 PM
1

I think the French relationship markets are slightly different and specific to France. Mind you, I'm thinking of Paris here, which is where my experiences have been, and not the rest of the country, which I am sure is different. I'm from the US, and even here we have very different market conditions in, say, Miami/Los Angeles/Manhattan from Omaha/Des Moines/Ok City. These markets are local by nature, so there are always local characteristics that come to the fore -- and often discussions on the …
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/17 08:55 PM
2

Are you French? :p Heh, non -- but I've lived there a couple of times over my life. I'm willing to believe we tolerate it more than is common in other countries, but the stereotype always amuses me. Probably overstated, but it's still different than elsewhere in a qualitative way, and certainly very different from the US, where I am from. Anyway, I wasn't talking about that kind of relationship, I was talking about what you called an "officially open" marriage And I agree with you there -- I'd t…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/17 08:44 PM
4

I'd venture to say many or even most officially open marriages (and even relationships) are discreet about it. It's not something that's easy to bring up around family and friends even if it's fine within the couple. Sure, but in France discreet means "I don't want to know about it myself, or find out about it from someone else". So it's not really an open marriage, it's a tolerated infidelity provided it stays within bounds of discretion such that the spouse never learns of it (directly or indi…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/17 08:35 PM
4

Not if they are married to the guy, at least not openly. A woman who has attracted a high value man for marriage is almost always going to be quite high value herself. In some cultures, she may tolerate (as is common in France) discreet affairs by her husband in this situation, whereas in other ones (like the US) she likely won't, but in any case it isn't an "officially open" marriage. Outside of marriage, lower value women will often share access to a higher value man, which is what RP is talki…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/17 08:21 PM
41

I mean it should be obvious to anyone with eyes which function normally that women have easier access to casual liaisons than men do, ceteris paribus. It's to be expected in an open situation, unless the man is extraordinarily attractive (in which case the wife probably won't want to open to begin with), the wife will have more opportunities in the sense that she can access attractive paramour/lover/sex situations more easily than her husband can. Too many guys seem oblivious to this reality, an…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/17 07:35 PM
2

Heh I can imagine. I think it happens mostly to guys who watch a LOT of porn.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/17 07:07 PM
1

Well the thing about porn fetishes is whether they carry over into real life. A guy who is bisexual, for example, will have been attracted to at least some other men romantically/sexually in real life, and probably will have had a crush on at least one. That's a more valid "test" as to whether someone is latently bisexual than what their brain leads them to look at as a kind of novelty/stimulation when they are masturbating while watching porn. It could be for some that it opens up something tha…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/17 05:56 PM
1

Yeah it's not just about blackouts though. If someone is prone to pick bar fights when they've had 12 beers, does that really mean "yeah they're really fundamentally a violent person, the drink just reveals that" or does it mean "when they drink that much, they lose their judgment and they do things that are really out of character for them"? To me, it's much more the latter than the former. Alcohol really clouds judgment at high levels, even if you don't black out -- the decisions taken at thos…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/17 05:08 PM
1

You're assuming that we all didn't date or have GFs when younger. I sure had GFs in HS and college and after. The TRP difference has to do with (1) access to higher SMV women (not, as many seem to think, access to any women at all ... many of us had that) and (2) retaining interest of higher SMV women once access is attained. It's about improving the SMV rather than all or nothing, at least that's what my life experience has been.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/17 04:46 PM
1

Low quality in the sexual marketplace, yes. That's the relevant context.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/17 04:44 PM
1

Be careful about going with fetishes and porn choices. People who use porn heavily seek out novelty, and this can lead them to view porn for stimulation that represents things that do not interest them in real life. I also don't think that what someone would be willing to do when their judgment is shot, at 10 drinks, is indicative at all of what their "true sexuality" is -- it's just what they are willing to do when their judgment is shot.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/17 04:40 PM
1

Red and no -- I wouldn't marry someone who would expect or merit that (my fiancee moved to be near me, for ex., not the reverse because both knew it made no sense).
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/17 04:37 PM
4

With the obesity epidemic among men and women in our culture, this is only true if "average" means "unattractive" -- most people are quite overweight, and a larger number than ever are obese. The "average" is skewing unattractive, really.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/17 04:21 PM
2

SMV: Appearance (not model, but attractive, in shape) Demeanor (not doormat, but not ballbusting in-your-face ... in other words a pleasant persona) Loyalty/stability (not someone who constantly needs attention from new people to feel well) RMV: All SMV characteristics Intelligence (can keep up with me intellectually, which is hard to find) Lifestyle compatibility (NOT lockstep interests, but rather overall style of life, life habits, is similar) Family stability history (prevalence of divorce i…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/04/17 04:07 PM
2

Thanks -- it isn't particularly painful at this stage, because it's 20 years later and things have moved on. We all get along well enough as well. As I said, I do think that things are changing in some places where courts are more likely to award 50/50 custody with hard rules on people needing to stay put. There are other places that don't do that very often, however, still. Perhaps that will continue as a trend, we will see.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/04/17 03:30 PM
1

Well, but she would not have agreed to shared custody, I would have had to litigate for it. And I was advised that it was very unlikely that I would win that litigation. That was the basis of my decision. I didn't make that decision so as to avoid career impact on my part. My note as to what actually happened afterwards was as a result of her career morphing after the divorce such that she moved around a lot, so that if we actually did have shared custody, it would have ended up being disruptive…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/04/17 03:20 PM
3

Good. Not what I was advised at the time.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/04/17 03:17 PM
2

It is shifting a bit in some places more than others. There is a trend towards shared parenting arrangements in some places, but there are plenty of other places that remain skeptical of it. When I was in the situation (almost 20 years ago) I was told point blank that if I fought, there was a less than 20% chance of getting 50/50, mostly due to courts being skeptical of shared parenting arrangements (seeing them as disruptive), and it would be a slog getting there -- time-consuming (meaning expe…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/04/17 03:05 PM
3

It's because they are advised by counsel that if the matter goes to the court, she will win, you will be poorer for the effort, and the kids may suffer as well if they are made to testify (and you will probably have a hate-filled relationship with your co-parent to boot, because normally such litigation is exceptionally hate-generating). So they pass on that, take their less than 50/50. write the check, and do their best.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/04/17 02:04 PM
1

Some kinds of it should be made legal -- basically prostitution that doesn't involve pimps or trafficking. So your garden variety "independent" internet hooker really shouldn't be treated as a criminal (and really, for the most part law enforcement doesn't get very excited about them today anyway in the US at least unless there is a pimp or madam involved), but trafficking and pimping should remain illegal and be enforced against. I don't think it will have the effect the OP thinks it will in te…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/17 05:32 PM
1

It's true they need to know how to close or they can squander the bounty, but he was a natural at that, too, long before Game was a thing (this was the late 1980s timeframe).
/r/PurplePillDebate21/04/17 09:04 PM
1

Heh, and classifying Armenians as Middle Eastern is a sure way to get them angry, too.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/04/17 02:47 PM
1

It's because gay men evaluate each other the way straight men evaluate women -- looks primary. Straight women evaluate men based on looks, too, but not to the same degree as straight men evaluate women based on looks. Gay men, however, evaluate each other based on looks primary, so in the gay SMP it's very important to hone your looks -- which is why we see gay men focusing on their appearance to a similar degree as straight women -- they're both aiming for the male gaze (just one male gaze is s…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/04/17 02:23 PM
3

Yes it's that the relatively small number of men who are sexually attractive to most women, regardless of "type" (let's say it's 20% on average, but it could be less than that, or slightly more than that, depending on context) are a different subset altogether. It may not be that 80% of all women are having sex with these 20%, but it is the case that 80% of all women are sexually attracted to this 20%, and that the portion of that 80% of women who are having casual sex are quite more likely to h…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/04/17 12:37 PM
1

Break up. Would be a fundamental lie about something important to me. In my own relationship, there is no risk of this happening because I vetted a lot, but in theory of it happened it would be a deal breaker for me.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/04/17 01:37 PM
1

It won't make you alpha -- it makes certain women available to you who are willing to trade down on alpha in exchange for access to a guy with lots of cash and wealth. How much is that? That depends on where you are. It's more in NY and LA than in Chicago, but it's still a lot more than what you night be thinking. In other words, it isn't what a partner at a law firm is making, for example -- it's more than that. It has to stand out beyond the "working rich" guys like law firm partners (most of …
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/17 02:32 PM
1

Sure it's real, but it's mostly due to women's choices and not sexual discrimination as in "let's pay her less just because she's a woman!". Women choose different jobs, work at their jobs differently (want more balance, typically, than men do even if they are not married or mothers), don't push for raises as hard as men do, etc. This is the lion's share of the gap. So if women want to close the gap, they can close almost all of it by making different choices.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/17 02:18 PM
1

Yes.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/17 02:15 PM
1

Date, sure. Marry, no -- too much baggage for marriage, imo. Can be fun for dating, though.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/17 02:14 PM
2

Most RPers believe that actual adoption rates of TRP will be very low, when viewed against the broader society. The society will always be massively BP. So the small number of RP guys won't put a dent in the decline. Hence "enjoy the decline" as a tagline of TRP.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/17 04:07 PM
7

Yeah, I think that's just where they've chosen to fight him, because of the specific policy involved, but he's ben disliked for his views for some time (including the kinds of views expressed in the OP). These are very close to RP views in content (of course not in form), which means they are anathema for the BP, which is the mainstream.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/17 05:33 PM
9

I suspect quite a few BPs will not like the source, and will condemn for that reason. Basically TBPers are trying to get him fired at the moment.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/17 05:16 PM
1

Nope. All they do is protect your pre-marital assets, if you keep them segregated from the marital assets, and you fully disclose them. Assets generated in the marriage are distributed 50/50, as are entitlements generated in the marriage, like pension payouts. Pre-nups are good if you bring a lot of assets into the marriage and you want to protect them. Otherwise, not very useful.
/r/TheRedPill09/01/17 07:41 PM
7

Eh, women have more fluid sexual attraction than men do -- much more fluid. See this book. The expression of this fluidity depends on environmental factors (culture, social, etc.). Today, lesbian pairings are "chic". Hollywood and the related supermodel world are peppered with it now, from Cara DeLevingne to Amber Heard to Kristen Stewart to countless others. For a hot young woman to have a GF is now not only accepted but celebrated in the media culture. So when that is the context -- lots of ce…
/r/TheRedPill09/01/17 04:12 PM
19

I'd say your statement is a bit contradictory. Sexual objectification is beneficial to attractive women and not beneficial to unattractive women -- it isn't beneficial to all women because all women are not attractive. I'd also say this is why a good number of very attractive women are not terribly feminist in an activist/in-your-face/fish-and-bicycle kind of way.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/11/16 06:37 PM
11

So many willing cucks, really -- disgusting.
/r/TheRedPill07/06/16 12:50 PM
1

She was just waiting for the year to run out, because that helps her claims for support. What brought things to a head was that she was lezzing it up, again, with a supermodel from the UK. Remember, Heard was "unofficially married" to a pretty butch lez before she married Depp. She's a lez-leaning bi, and she was obviously gold-digging. Depp was dumb enough to let himself get gold-dug because Heard is hot. Dumb, really.
/r/TheRedPill02/06/16 03:11 PM
1

He fucked up by marrying Heard, who is obviously a lez-leaning "bisexual at best" type who was looking to cash in. I mean, not even a pre-nup with someone like that? Sheesh.
/r/TheRedPill31/05/16 03:31 PM
2

It's gay as shit -- you're having gay sex with a man who has had his body altered here and there. Gay as shit. Doesn't mean don't do it, if that's what you're into, but contorting it into "not being gay" when you're having gay sex is just stupid.
/r/TheRedPill31/05/16 03:11 PM
3

It's a mini-trend, and is more common among highly-powered, highly attractive women between, say 30 and 45. That's not a huge group, by the way, in total, but it is a mini-trend among that group. I'd say it's a small step in the further direction of marriages becoming more open in general on the woman's side of things, as we continue to progress towards greater levels of sexual libertinism.
/r/MarriedRedPill10/05/16 05:25 PM
3

Only you can know whether you want to proceed, and whether it makes sense to do the work to make the relationship better. But I will say this .... 2.5 years is nothing much. It may seem like a lot to you, but it really isn't much. It certainly isn't enough of a sunk cost, in and of itself without taking the rest of things into consideration, to cause you to stay if there are other reasons you want to end it.
/r/MarriedRedPill26/04/16 04:39 PM
2

MGTOW started differently than what it is now. It started back in the earlier noughts when some guys within what was then then the proto-manosphere decided that they would break away from some of the group think and "go their own way". Some of these guys meant it in the sense of avoiding women, but others didn't. Over the years, MGTOW has mostly morphed into men who are avoiding women and/or relationships with women (it's still not all of them, but it's a large part of them). So it's completely …
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/16 11:42 PM
1

Yes, red.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/16 10:39 PM
1

No, and many others have disagreed with it as well, particularly in the 1-5 range. Most 1-4 are overweight rather than disfigured, which isn't the case in the chart ... this is particularly true given the general level of obesity today.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/16 12:02 AM
1

I've known many great lawyers who are of average, or even below, attractiveness. Different career than your circle. I don't doubt you in your characterizations of your circle, but my point remains -- most women do want children, and do want to marry in that context, and most are not glamorous creatives and fashionistas in their mid-30s. RP is trying to talk about "most women", not outlier demographics. If a red piller is a guy who is interested in women of your circle, obviously he adapts what h…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/16 10:45 PM
1

Most women do actually want children -- the percentage who do not is small. Your circle represents it, and that's fine, but overall it is small relative to the total population of women. Overall, most women, including most women who are highly educated and have careers, want families and, preferably, husbands, at least in theory. So, yes, you're in a group of outliers. Which is again fine, unless you're seriously suggesting that in 2016 most women don't want children or families, are very hot in…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/16 10:25 PM
3

The differential in in-group preference based on sex is still remarkably different.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/16 08:47 PM
5

What about the academic studies that say that women have a 3-4 times higher in-group preference for other women? (No, I'm not going to look them up, Google works fine.) It seems that women do have a preference for other women which is far more pronounced than men's preference for other men. When you put those together (female preference for other females, male preference for females over males), you get the tilt we see today and things like the "women are wonderful effect".
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/16 08:26 PM
10

It may not be, but the MRA isn't going to get its points anway - it's a waste of time. Feminism will change what it wants to about men, or at least try to do so, in a way that suits feminism, and that will be that. Men are better off just dealing with the current system as it is and finding a way to make it work for them rather than any kind of activism along the lines of the MRAs. So to be honest I don't care very much about whether the MRAs are convincing, because I think it's a waste of time …
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/16 08:18 PM
14

This is basically the reason, I agree. I'm also not an MRA, but that response from feminists is still not uncommon, like 'I'll worry about your issues when we reach full equality" or "women have it so much worse than men, here's the tiniest fucking violin, you douchebag" and so on. I think MRA is a waste of time, honestly, but that's just me.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/16 07:26 PM
2

I think we do -- at least many of us do. There are lots of RP threads reminding the anger/vengeance phasers that plenty of the women are still hot at 35 and some even at 45, and many turn out just fine. I often talk about the 47 year old secretary sitting in front of me who is an 8 for her age range and about a 6.5-7 overall, depending on her sartorial choices. We know these women exist, I think, and at least some of us remind other RPers that they do as well.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/16 07:24 PM
1

Actually we agree that it's exceptional. RP never says "all men at 40 are banging 18-21 year old women" -- or even most of them. We agree that it's an exceptional man who can do that, and that's why the goal is to become exceptional. That's the whole point of RP.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/16 07:16 PM
1

You're an outlier then -- which is fine. You one of the outliers who doesn't fit the paradigm. RP theory doesn't apply to women who are hotter at 35 than 25, don't want kids and therefore don't want a BB type husband. So, you're one of the exceptions.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/16 07:15 PM
2

Because she was hotter at 35 than the 25 year olds he could have gotten, while at the same time being more interested in marrying at that age, and more likely to stick around for a while (which she has done). At that level, the money is always on the table, but that doesn't mean there's the same risk with a 35 year old as there is will a 25 year old, and she was one hell of a hot 35 year old, definitely in the top 1% globally in that age range, and she still is in the 45 age range today.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/16 07:11 PM
11

Yes. Generally it's that they were DTF and not very unattractive, that's it. It's not that hard to attract a 22 year old male if sex is placed explicitly on the table, because he's at the horniest period of his life, and he's not that picky when it comes to sex freely offered, provided the woman is not very unattractive. The ones who are more conventionally attractive can attract the hotter guys, as one would expect, and I've seen that more commonly -- that is, hot 40 year old goes for a ONS wit…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/16 01:20 PM
1

(Actually she wasn't shoving them away, she was welcoming them. And me, too.) Yep. The guys are pretty hapless in thinking that they have the same power to pull women as their wives do to pull men. Unless the husband is an attractive Alpha who has maintained himself and therefore maintains power, he won't be able to pull like she can, even if she is relatively average looking, because the demand for sex without strings with women in their 30s and 40s is still very high, and men are not extraordi…
/r/TheRedPill13/01/16 12:42 PM
1

Well above average in what women are seeking. So if you are looking for a ONS, be tall, good looking, charming and fun. If you are looking for an LTR all of that matters, too, but other things also start to matter to women like shared values/lifestyle, career, ambition, etc. In both cases women are very selective, because they are the sex that is in greater demand. That demand difference doesn't completely drop off until you get to the women who are under, say, 3. The 1s and 2s -- so not just th…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/16 12:36 PM
1

Precisely. It depends on the guy. If the guy is Alpha, and in charge, the situation provides opportunity, and if he manages it well, it can work quite well. Most of the time, though, if she is proposing to open the relationship, the guy isn't Alpha or in charge, and it's much more likely she's proposing that he consent to being cucked -- usually this isn't the fetish/humiliation type cucking (at least not at first), and it may be theoretically open on both sides, but if the guy is a beta, he isn…
/r/TheRedPill13/01/16 01:39 AM
2

We're describing two different things. I agree that if it is consensus driven there is no captain and first mate dynamic, in substance, regardless of what one decides to call it. To me, that dynamic is where the captain decides when to take the mates input, and when not to, so he is the decider.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/16 11:32 PM
4

I agree, although she is clearly a woman who likes to be dominant and prefers men who are less assertive and emotional -- it's a female led relationship model. There are women like that, but there aren't all that many of them.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/16 10:14 PM
3

A captain generally solicits the input of the first mate on significant decisions. He may not take that input every time, but he will some of the time, and perhaps in some cases most of the time. Yet the captain is still leading -- the first mate has input and is involved, but the captain still decides whether and to what extent to incorporate that input.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/16 10:07 PM
3

My situation was 12 years ago. The reason why she ditched therapy was simple. After we started therapy, she began an affair with her also married boss. I learned of this about six weeks or so into the thing, and of course it came up in therapy and she did not want to deal with it. So she left therapy. A few weeks later she tells me she wants to have "joint therapy", where me, her, our old therapist and a new one she had been talking with all sat together. I agreed to this, and it lasted all of o…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/16 04:07 PM
3

It's really the closest thing to being the male equivalent of AF/BB, although there are differences. Men want to fuck sluts and porn stars. They are sexually hot, we want to fuck them. All other things being equal (on that, see below), they get us harder faster than other women do, and we want to have sex with them, in a pure, raw, visceral physical way (not relating to personality, lifestyle, values, compatibility, etc.), more, all things being equal, than with other women. (Nota bene: I am not…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/16 01:18 PM
5

Do you mean the subreddit? I think subreddits tend to have some strange qualities to them, because they can act as closed spaces by excluding voices that disagree, enforcing viewpoints in the moderator cadre, reinforcing silo viewpoints -- but TRP isn't alone in that. Almost all of the feminist subreddits are exactly like that. It seems to be an aspect of reddit, as far as I can tell. The red pill, which existed quite some time before there was a TRP subreddit, is kind of the opposite of a cult.…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/16 01:07 PM
2

No, it was just a useless exercise in general.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/16 01:32 AM
2

You're entitled to your opinion, and others are entitled to theirs.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/16 12:04 AM
2

Not disagreeing, but remember they are interested in equality. So as long as things are more equal at home and at work, they're happy with that, even if it has a negative impact on family income.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/16 12:03 AM
3

Basically they want men to spend less time working so that things are more balanced between men and women in the home and workplace, and women can get ahead more easily (not competing with the guys who are working a lot and spending less time at home).
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/16 11:57 PM
3

Almost always that has been tried before MRP is tried.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/16 11:29 PM
3

Right. If the relationship initially had a different dynamic that was happier, and kind slid into a bad place, using MRP may be able to fix that, because the earlier pattern did exist. If the pattern of the relationship was always explicitly feminist egalitarian from the beginning, it probably won't work, depending on the wife.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/16 11:28 PM
5

Therapy is fundamentally flawed. In my personal experience, this is true. It was very ineffective and kind of pointless in our case, precisely because my ex wasn't interested in working on any of her garbage and wanted it all to be about me (the therapist didn't let her do that, to her credit, which then led to my ex leaving therapy).
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/16 11:21 PM
2

It's worth a try, I agree. It may not work, depending on the wife.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/16 11:19 PM
4

Generally the relationship is not perfectly fine, of course, because if it was the man wouldn't be seeking out MRP -- the guys who seek out MRP have marriages with problems in them. Implementing RP principles in a marriage that has always been based on feminist egalitarianism may not work, however. Patterns and expectations are already set, and the wife, if she really is a bossy feminist type, will probably resist that and the marriage will crater if that happens. It can work in some cases, but …
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/16 10:55 PM
1

However, most women, including feminists are sympathetic towards the high rates of depression, substance abuse and suicide in men. Is this because if they don't protect these liberties, dead men make for fewer beta buxes? Can most 'legitimate' men's rights issues be boiled down to 'things which allow men to stay in the workforce for longer and have a longer beta provider shelf life'? Basically it's another way to attack the concept of "patriarchy" and the idea that "patriarchy is bad for men, to…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/16 07:32 PM
0

TRP is a way of dealing with women's high standards for men -- not rationalizing them, but understanding them and then improving yourself so that you make the cut.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/16 07:15 PM
0

The interesting thing is that Roissy was writing about the market for post-college women. He was in his 30s when he wrote that post (mid to late, I think) and he was writing about his observations of women between their early 20s and early 30s in the DC area -- so not college or HS girls (although the same ideas apply in those settings in general). In the US, at least, it isn't really something that is confined to HS and colleges.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/16 06:28 PM
1

The husband here is behaving foolishly and inviting his own ruin, but the lesson to other guys is this: if you marry, never, ever have your wife be a SAHM. If your wife earns as much as you do, or more, she can't take you to the cleaners. You will still pay C/S if you have kids, but she can't get alimony from you. Also do not start your own business with marital assets after you get married.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/16 01:47 PM
17

Yes, men have it harder because women are more selective (men like a greater percentage of women than women do men). For men, the key takeaway is this: average is over. You need to be well, well above average to be competitive in the current SMP. If you're not, you'll probably still eventually pair off, but it will be on her terms, because of your lack of market power. So don't be average. Be well above average and exercise some market power.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/16 01:38 PM
0

Wasn't he more of a lambda?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/16 01:24 PM
2

What Lonny said. Basically I was OK at attracting women, but relationships went south due to beta.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/16 01:19 PM
1

Dalrock, The Rational Male, DonalGraeme.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/16 01:18 PM
2

Well they don't care about my issues, don't benefit me personally in the least, so no, they can pound sand. But I learned that in college, 30 years ago, when a completely financially and socially privileged princess from an elite locale in Southern California poked me in the chest, lower middle class financial aid student from urban northeast, and told me I was the privileged one. Yep. I understood feminists from that day forward and no bullshit will ever convince me otherwise.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 10:31 PM
4

And that is why they complain, and why I complain. The larger issues are bullshit to me, and I don't care about them, just as they don't care about me or my situation.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 10:27 PM
5

Whether what you say is true or not makes no difference to my situation. "Suck it up, outlier" isn't a social policy. God, I loathe feminists.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 10:03 PM
4

But they won't, because too many Indian guys in IT. So they hire women in law, accounting and so on to make for an "overall" balance in a workforce of 3000. Again, each position is zero sum. Discrimination is real and deliberate and it is against men. They don't discriminate against women in IT, they just don't have applicants, so they hire men there and then discriminate against male lawyers and paralegals. The whole thing is a joke, and the policy is a disaster. Hire the best for the job, don'…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 09:56 PM
5

There is no 50/50 split. In a group of 15 people, lawyers, paralegals and secretaries I am the one and only man. And when a position comes up, we fill it with a woman. Yep, love the parity. Why? Because there are a lot of Indian guys in IT. Fair? Fuck no. Fuck no. But I'm getting paid, so fuck it. Been there almost 20 now so not going to upend that. But to say that this is fair or sensible or balanced is just ridiculous imo.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 09:46 PM
4

The feminine imperative is the prime directive in society, and determines everything that comes in contact with men/women, sex, relationships and children. Just is so, always will be so. It hides under a masculine mask, often, because men let it be so, but it is still the FI.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 09:43 PM
3

Position appointments are actually zero sum. There is a limited number of positions. So men and women are at odds here -- every woman appointed is a man who is fucked, and every man is appointed is a woman who is fucked. When the preference to hire women exists across organizations, men get systematically fucked. In my own company, which is a F200 in the US, positions like mine (in house corporate lawyer) are routinely preferenced to women. I know this because I participate in the process. And e…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 09:39 PM
4

Even at the subreddit many guys are not plate spinners. You are assuming it is a narrow prescription, which it isn't. Just as feminism is broad, the red pill is broad as well. If not, I'm quite happy to sum up feminism with the SCUM Manifesto -- are you?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 09:33 PM
4

Yes, they are a bunch of mean-spirited trolls, and they should always be treated as such. No quarter, no respect. Treat them as useless, spiteful, hateful trolls, period.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 09:31 PM
2

Heh, you know me, man ....
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 06:01 PM
6

Most feminists don't try to oppress males though, they just try to solve the problems that many women face. And if it comes at the expense of men, which it often does, they don't care at all, and they expect us to act against our own interests as a sex. No thanks. I got that message in college in the mid 1980s and turned my back on feminists then. Haven't seen anything to make me reconsider since then.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 06:00 PM
2

You're incorrect about the manosphere -- it's quite diverse, and includes monogamists, free love folks, plural relationship folks, MGTOWs, MRAs, red pillers, Christian red pillers, and so on. It's very diverse, which is our strength. And in any case, my point is that the radical feminists are just as alive and well on the internet as the male extremists are. We can all point fingers at each other very easily, because it's a target rich environment on both sides.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 05:42 PM
3

TRP is not "the red pill" in its totality -- it does not sum up the concepts, and it has no exclusive power of attorney to represent the ideas. It's a subreddit. The red pill ideas are broader, predate the subreddit by many years, and are not defined by what is there. Just like feminism is not confined by what is on feministing. I'm red pill, not beholden to the people on the TRP subreddit.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 05:36 PM
1

Why are shitposts like this even allowed here, mods? This post says nothing, and just slings insult. It should be deleted. If you had integrity, you would have done so already.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 01:45 PM
1

That's right. The law student who hooks for spending money isn't a victim -- she's probably like Karen Owens of 'Duke Fuck List' fame, but just smart enough to get paid.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 01:41 PM
1

No, as others have said, it isn't enough.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 01:26 PM
4

The problem with redpill is you get a lot of dudes in there who never go onto self improvement and stay just for the anger and bitterness towards women. Feminists have the same issue, as you state later in your comment. I could easily go to feministing or even jezebel and find tons of circle jerking man-hating, yet I don't see feminist bloops calling them out on their shit. No larger group is going to be without idiots, and the red pill and manosphere are no exception to that. Feminism and the b…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 01:12 PM
9

I am not invested in the TRP subreddit -- my association with the red pill dates back to 2006-7, long before there was a TRP subreddit, and even today is focused on the red pill blogosphere, and not really the subreddit. I do know this, though. Jackwagons who found an entire subreddit to ridicule, demean, insult and attack a previously founded subreddit deserve to be treated as hateful, spiteful trolls and nothing else -- because that is all you are.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 01:07 PM
22

Awww. We wuv our wimminz 2 yo! I love my fiancee. Love and the red pill are in no way incompatible.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 07:01 AM
18

And this is why the blue pill is fundamentally a group of hateful spiteful people. Totally disgusting as a group to the extent it makes me often want to throw up. Listen mate -- I didn't miss out, as you suggest. I had multiple GFs in HS, multiple GFs in college, and multiples after before I met my ex wife in my 20s in the 1990s. And I was married by my late 20s to an attractive woman. And I'm engaged to another attractive woman currently. Not the "left behind", or "bitter because can't make it …
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 06:28 AM
2

Financial incentives militate against that. My ex has physical, yet is "out of town" about 45% of the time, meaning I have de facto physical just enough to convenience her, but not enough to impact C/S payments. Family law experts (I am a lawyer myself but not a family law practitioner) say that my likelihood of upsetting the applecart at this point, with 2 years to go to majority, are basically zero, so she exploits this.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 06:19 AM
1

One point in thinking about this again. The nature of the risks "run" by the person starting the business and the spouse are different. The founder spouse is risking actual monthly income and investment income, whereas the investing spouse is risking investment income only. In most areas (law, accounting) these are viewed differently -- current "operating" income as compared with future, "return on investment" income. So while if the business fails both spouses lose a part of their retirement (w…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 03:39 AM
1

No it's risky for both. But women will most commonly also get the cushion of c/s, if there are kids, so she has more likelihood of a buffer than he does. If there are no kids, the risk is more or less the same.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 02:58 AM
1

Better to risk less, in my opinion, but again, I'm a lawyer -- we are kind of "anti risk" by design. My fiancee is also anti-risk, so we won't be taking many risks financially (I am the investment side of the relationship, and I am conservative there, which is predictable). I also didn't run these risks in my former marriage, so I didn't get hurt in that way. My message to men is that it's a big risk, and one I don't recommend taking. But, some guys are risk takers and will do it anyway -- at le…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 02:54 AM
1

Yes it comes down to appetite for risk, which I edited into my last comment as well (I'm prone to comment editing). Civil discussion here is rare, but possible. I agree it has been a good discussion.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 02:42 AM
1

I understand the reasoning for the distribution, as I have said multiple times. It's just a dumb decision on the personal level because you have to double the income before you personally see any benefit, and any increase before that doubling over your baseline income goes 100% to your ex. That's a pretty dumb financial decision, in my opinion. Part of that is because I am not an entrepreneur, but a lawyer, and a corporate lawyer at that. The idea of taking 50% of my income and handing it to my …
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 02:36 AM
1

I don't disagree, but he shouldn't do that, because if he does, he is fucking himself up the ass more often than not.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 02:26 AM
6

It isn't only community property states that will seek to distribute the income generated by income generating assets created during the marriage. So if H starts a business with marital assets, H and W earn 50/50, then in a non-CP state, that business is generally considered 50/50 separate property -- that is, 50% the separate property of H and 50% the separate property of W. So the effect is the same as in a CP state.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 02:24 AM
1

And in any case, even using your example, the man who starts the business has to more than double his income from it to come out ahead. If H and W each earn 50k through paychecks, and then he starts a business with marital assets and quits his paycheck job, he has to grow that to at least 100k of income just to break even after divorce as compared with his income prior to the time he started the business, when he would get back 50k of the earnings of the business. He has to make the business its…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 02:13 AM
0

Eh no.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 01:56 AM
1

It's much better to not have to part with any of your income after your divorce. After divorce, you want to be as independent of your ex as possible, and certainly it is much better not to have to send her payments from your income after the divorce. So, much better to earn paychecks of relatively equal amounts, you part ways, and that's that.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 01:55 AM
1

Still too much of a risk. Much better if you are married to not subject any of your future income to transfer to your future ex.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 01:45 AM
1

Given that is how it works, it's much better to earn a paycheck and for your wife to earn a very similarly sized paycheck than to run this ridiculous risk of having your income half docked because it's seen as the fruits of a joint investment. Just take your money from a paycheck. I'm red pill and I always tell guys if they are getting married to never do a SAHM route, marry a woman who earns at least around as much as you do, and make sure she keeps earning that during the marriage. Much, much …
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/16 12:08 AM
1

One additional comment: The two perspectives of "ownership" you're talking about here intersect, at least in the US and countries with similar systems, because she who gets the kids also gets child support, which in the US is an income tax like percentage of income payment. So the children "ownership" issue is also a financial issue (c/s is much less when there is 50/50 physical custody), because it results in a substantial income transfer payment from H to W. The issues of children and finances…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/16 11:43 PM
2

Look, I understand the logic of it -- I'm a lawyer myself. But the point is that the result is absurd if you start a business while you are married, using any marital assets at all, and that is the basis of your own personal income -- the risk you are running there is huge, because if you divorce, your income takes a huge hit by having a large portion of it transferred to your ex in perpetuity. For this reason, no-one should start a business during a marriage. If the man instead got a paycheck i…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/16 11:37 PM
2

Let's say H has a business where he earns 100k and W has a job where she earns 100k. They divorce. W gets 50% of the income of H's business, while H has no entitlement to any portion of W's salary. That makes absolutely zero economic sense, and actively punishes anyone who starts a business during a marriage as compared with someone who earns a paycheck from somebody else's business. Note, I am not a business owner, so this did not impact me in my own divorce, but the above scenario makes no sen…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/16 11:20 PM
4

The problem is that it is a double alimony, because not only does the wife get 50% of the business income, she also gets a couple of cuts of "his 50%" in the form of alimony and C/S. I mean at that point, you're basically a slave to your ex. Basically, it makes it extremely foolish to start a business if you are married.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/16 11:13 PM
3

Some US states also deduct it from pay as well. But if you are out of a job, you're still liable for the full amount of "what you are capable of earning", which is generally the maximum you've ever earned, and jail is a real threat if the ex-wife seeks to prosecute. And even if she doesn't, you're liable for all of the arrears in full, and she can prosecute that at any time. We have a zany system in the US.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/16 10:40 PM
1

Interesting, because I have not seen very many men claim ownership over their wife's earning capacity or the assets generated by those earnings in an exclusive way. Perhaps there are guys who do that, but that would be odd.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/16 10:35 PM
5

When it comes to divorce, I don't think there are that many men who complain that 50% of what is acquired/generated during the marriage gets distributed to the wife. There is a fairness there. What is disliked are: (1) alimony for an extended period beyond a period of rehabilitation (which some states still have) (2) child custody and support (not the concept, but the calculation and level of it) and (3) distribution of "income generating assets" 50/50 (** -- see below). ** -- The main issue tha…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/16 10:29 PM
3

My understanding is that it is a fixed amount, which can be suspended if the person is unemployed for an extended period, disabled and so on. You may not know this, but in the US, c/s is not adjusted if you are unemployed, and you can be put in jail for failure to pay.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/16 10:17 PM
2

Not to get married, sure, but he wants to date -- dating isn't "sitting out". My comment wasn't about getting married. Where did I say anything about getting married in any of my comments in this thread (including the one you responded to)?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/16 09:34 PM
2

No that isn't what he said at all. This is what he said: As a MGTOW(and a new one at that) I still wish to date but understand that I'm not the most attractive guy, and I own it. And in his own follow up to my comment (which is like less than in inch below this comment) he said this: Well I do want to improve myself, and I still want to date. Now, you may want to sit out, but he doesn't.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/16 09:23 PM
4

Pimping and trafficking, sure. But the average internet hooker who works independently, has not been trafficked, and earns money on the side from her day job, or to pay for college/grad school? That really shouldn't be criminal.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/16 09:05 PM
3

Feminism is part of a broader scope of changes. Certainly it plays a role, because it led to the economic independence of women from one specific man, which leads to very different mate selection choices by women -- leaning much more towards attraction than financial security, which makes it hard on most men, because most men are not attractive to most women. But the revolution in reproductive technologies also changed things a great deal by making pregnancy an "opt-in" scenario and separating i…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/16 08:57 PM
6

The nordic countries don't have everything wrong -- child support there is not income based, but is a flat rate per capita. So they understand some things better than the non-Nordic countries do, that's for sure. On the hookers question, the reasoning is that punishing women merely adds salt to the wound of relatively desperate women -- the idea is to make conditions such that women don't "feel the need" to hook. Focusing enforcement on johns is basically deciding to attack the demand side rathe…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/16 08:45 PM
2

he shouldn't have to change to meet her unreasonable expectations. We don't live in a "should" world, we live in an "is" world. You don't get to set the market conditions or the "ask" of the person you're trying to attract. If you're below her ask, you don't get the date. If you don't think that's fair, then sit out from the game, but there is no "should", there is only "is".
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/16 08:38 PM
0

Neither do women, when it comes to most men, and certainly when it comes to the men who need advice about how to catch them.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/16 07:05 PM
3

Exactly.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/16 02:25 PM
6

The idea is that to do otherwise would potentially encourage men to slack off from their maximum earning potential, which is seen as not being in the interests of the children. SO when you divorce here, you have to keep making what the court considers your max earning potential, and the court will hold you to that, even if you change jobs or become unemployed. In any case, in non-Anglo countries, like the Scandinavian countries for example, child support is not calculated as a percentage of inco…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/16 02:21 PM
1

Others have already said it, but the wave of divorces is a big factor -- suicide rates among divorced men are rather high. That relates to marriage risk, which is also a red pill theme.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/16 02:15 PM
2

I think that's the root of it yes -- men desire most women more than women desire most men, in general. That imbalance in demand makes it a seller's market for women, which gives them market power in most cases -- that is, unless the man in question has market power himself due to be an outlier man. Hence the importance of being more of an outlier if you want more market control. Otherwise men do end up still pairing off with women eventually (at least most do), but it's under market conditions …
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/16 01:32 PM
1

Hmm. In my experience, if you made the cut for the date, you made the rough physical cut -- in my own experience she doesn't go on the date unless you pass that threshold (unless she's just looking for a free meal, and it doesn't sound like that's what's been happening). However, since these are online dates, it could be that you present better in photos than you do in person. It's also the case with online dating that even though you've passed the photo/physical cut, there ends up being no chem…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/16 01:11 PM
4

I took your comment that way, but if you didn't mean it that way, then that's fine. In any case, all successful relationships are symbiotic, regardless of the relationship ideology we personally follow.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/16 12:10 AM
3

Symbiosis also exists to the same degree in non-egalitarian relationships. Think of the meaning of the term -- in biology it almost never implies egalitarianism. It implies a relationship of mutual benefit. To suggest that this in some way is an exclusive property of contemporary egalitarian heterosexual relationships is a mere conceit.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 11:45 PM
2

Well, maybe improve the social aspect, because that is a key one. That's obviously critical to meeting people and having dates. If you're well above average and not doing well, there's something missing. How old are you again? Early 30s?
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 11:06 PM
6

That is actually a healthy approach. Improve yourself, find similarly minded people, date them, and avoid getting attached unless it turns into something bigger. It's a good approach, but it doesn't strike me as MGTOW -- which is fine, labels are not important, actions are important.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 10:16 PM
3

Did you account for all the fake/prostitute profiles? Of course they'd pick that they want dominant men. Hookers? If anything hookers are not going to say that, because they do not want to limit their client base. Hookers tend to bend over backwards to say "XYZ doesn't matter", because they want pimply-phased omega male as a john -- or rather, don't want him to exclude himself as one. They'd all prefer to have Richard Gere as john, 24/7, but they are in it for the cash, so they don't want the pi…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 09:57 PM
4

Xem -- Most women don't expect men to look like models. Some women, sure, but most don't. You can be much more attractive to women and not be a male model quality man. The key is being as attractive as you can be while being you, which is really the essence of the red pill, not hating women. We love women, we want them to be attracted to us, after all. Your own perceptions were/are the issue there. You won't die alone unless you want to do so, as reflected in your life choices. You CAN change an…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 09:36 PM
10

If you are MGTOW and still want to date, what is the big deal then? Improve yourself, then socialize. The details are available elsewhere (I'm not trying to be snarky-glib, but not trying to derail as well). If you want to attract better women, you can do so, with effort and dedication. Why not try?
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 09:33 PM
8

Yep, exactly right. They exist, but they're rare among women. The fetish isn't as rare among men (men are more prone to sexual fetishes, or "paraphilias", in general than women are), but them's the breaks for the guys who have the fetish, I guess.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 08:33 PM
6

You can't make a comparison between bedroom situations and non-bedroom situations because they are two completely different things. No, they're not. Only a person who is determined to make it so would say such. Without deliberate effort otherwise, one flows into the other in a very consistent way.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 08:31 PM
23

Yes, which is why there is a huge market for professional dominatrices -- there is literally almost no supply of "natural dominatrix" in relationships in the real world. Yes, I know some redditorette will come in now and say she is a domme in the bedroom and she has pegged all of her BFs and so on, but in reality this is extremely thin on the ground, so prodommes have a huge client base to exploit due to unmet needs. Luckily for me, I am not a submissive. But the path for male submissives is har…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 08:22 PM
1

Exactly, and also the situation of older women vs older men, as early as 35-45.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 07:44 PM
1

Yeah it's worse there. But if you scroll down and look at the maps by age, you'll see that virtually everywhere from 18-24 there are more single men than women. That shifts later on in favor of more single women than men after 45. It reflects a lot of things, really, that we talk about in terms of the red pill, and it's interesting to see it laid out like that.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 07:36 PM
1

It's terrible. See here.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 07:31 PM
5

You could try other therapies for the depression -- I'd suggest keep trying to beat it. Your age isn't an issue at this point. Height you can't change, true, but you can work around it -- you are capped, in terms of some women just writing you off because of it, meaning the pool is smaller, but most shorter guys can still get an attractive, usually petite, woman with considerable effort if they excel in other areas.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 07:23 PM
2

It can be a fatally violent combination, I agree.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 07:10 PM
3

Exactly this. I am a single dad. It's been a challenge for my fiancee, that's for certain. My son is now almost of age, so that phase of it is close to coming to an end, but really there are times when I do not have much time to give, due to my son, and she has accepted that very well -- but it's extremely challenging at times, and there is certainly baggage, and so it's something that any woman thinking about getting involved with a single dad should take into consideration carefully.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 06:57 PM
3

Yep -- it's mental illness more than inceldom. I'd guess that most incels are surviving on porn and World of Warcraft and aren't going to become mall shooters, but some mentally ill guys who also can't get laid will use that a trigger for acting out on their mental illness.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 06:53 PM
2

It's true he looks good with that. It gets a little specific with beards, because some women like the shadow type and some prefer an actual beard which is a bit fuller (not like an Orthodox monk, of course!), so your choice there, whatever it is, will attract some women and not others, which is the way it goes with these things.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 06:51 PM
1

Exactly. As long as the guy doesn't go for the "balding" look -- when you're going bald, just shave it, and have a full beard (not a Don Johnson Miami Vice shadow, but a full beard). Exactly what I do.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 06:41 PM
11

If being nice to girls doesn't work but being mean to girls doesn't work either Heh, the red pill isn't about being mean to girls. Getting in shape, lifting weights, eating better, grooming better, acquiring interests and hobbies, pursuing a career, getting your financial house in order and becoming more social and charming don't involve being mean to women. Playfully teasing women doesn't involve being mean (it's just normal flirtation). Having casual sex with women, if that's what you want, is…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 06:04 PM
1

Heh, well there's that. But it's also because women don't like to verbally admit that they can be similarly "shallow" (as they often characterize men) when they are selecting mates. It preserves the female image of being "less shallow" than men are in this area, I think. Of course, I do think that women are less focused on looks than men are, but somehow society (and most people, male and female alike) don't do nuance well, so it's either "looks are everything" or "looks don't matter for men", w…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 05:58 PM
1

Yes, looks matter to women, but not nearly as much as they do to gay men. Yes, that I agree with. The basic point of the OP that looks are important to women and men should pay more attention to their appearance is sound. The idea that women are like gay men in terms of their attraction, which isn't stated but is at least implied in the premise of the OP, isn't accurate.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 05:50 PM
5

Also remember that the gay community, because it is male, has a higher degree of fetishistic interests and variety seeking. There are subsectors of it that fetishize fat guys (chubby chasers), feminine looking guys (twinks/fems), hairy guys (bears, sometimes but not always fat as well). These guys are all getting laid in their subniches without being buff, shaving their backs, or even being particularly masculine looking.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 05:47 PM
7

Also genderqueer people who don't identify as one of the given binary genders? What about them? What cisgenderist bias!!!!
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 05:43 PM
2

Radical feminists already went there, but most women would not go along with it. During the height of the cultural revolution, the radfems were suggesting things like all women should become lesbians for political reasons (and there were some women who did this in the 60s and 70s), that the population of men should be reduced to a level no greater than 10% of the population (Prof. Mary Daley), that all heterosexual sex is rape because women have been brainwashed by patriarchy to see heterosexual…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 05:41 PM
3

I do think, though, that it's easier for gay men to "get this" because they are trying to attract men, who are very obviously primarily visually attracted to physical appearance -- they know this, because they are men themselves. While I (and the red pill) agree that looks are also important to women, I don't think women are effectively the equivalent of gay men without penises when it comes to mate selection -- that's a stretch -- so it would be odd for straight men to generally think it's appr…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 05:35 PM
3

I don't think you're going to get much disagreement from red pillers.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 05:23 PM
2

She and I met on a site that is tangential to the manosphere, and she's well aware of the red pill, so yes. She's basically a "red pill woman", but not officially (i.e., she doesn't participate in the blogosphere or reddit or what have you, but she basically is similar to a red pill woman in outlook).
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 05:18 PM
3

An "incel" is someone who is involuntarily celibate -- i.e, never had a relationship or sex with a woman, so no experiences with women. In my own life, earlier relationships were of varying degrees of success, but all ultimately failed, and with the red pill I understand why they did. I was not masculine enough, in summary. In my current relationship, it is hierarchical (captain and first mate model) and I follow red pill principles for the most part, and it works very well -- much better than r…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 03:25 PM
2

You've made a mess of things so far socially, and you're in a big hole. You won't get out of that hole without time, effort and substantial changes. You have to be willing to do all of that, and put in the time and effort, to get the result you want. There is no quick fix. You have to understand that. You need to remake yourself to get out of this hole, and you need to want to put in the time and effort to do so -- otherwise, you're going to be stuck where you are now. Once you're ready to make …
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 02:57 PM
0

Yes, but sparingly. Do it when there is something exceptional to compliment (like she looks nicer than normal, or does something nicer than normal and so on), and have it be a quick, simple compliment. Don't compliment all the time on her just being who she normally is.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 02:10 PM
3

Of course we have. You're assuming we're all incels. Au contraire. I'm 48. Had the requisite 2 HS girlfriends, 2 college girlfriends, a few here and there before meeting my ex-wife in my mid 20s. Married, then divorced. Then a few more, and now am engaged. SO, no lack of relationships or relationship experience here, and I'm red. Why? Because red makes the most sense of the experience I have had with women over the last 30+ years. Red doesn't mean women are incapable of kindness, or that you've …
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 02:04 PM
2

Would consider as a gay man.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 02:00 PM
6

Also most of the women who are doing online dating have serious issues, because women who don't have serious issues have no problem attracting suitable men offline, and so don't bother with online dating. The whole thing is more or less a waste of time for both sexes. People who are attractive meet people in the real world, period. Are there exceptions to that? Sure, but they're exceptional.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 01:56 PM
2

Exactly.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 01:52 PM
3

It's a market place -- it's the most accurate way to see it, because things are being exchanged there. If it weren't a market place, you wouldn't see people matching up based on their attractiveness -- that's a "like for like exchange" to the tee, and people make those kinds of "value exchange" judgments all the time when selecting mates, long before you get to the point of having love or emotion even in the picture.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 01:50 PM
1

Attraction is required in either case, so in either case it pays to get in shape, lift weights, learn some game/charm and so on. Being yourself only works if its your absolute best self, when you are mate hunting. To some extent it is a numbers game, but guys should also be more targeted when they are looking for a marriage/LTR in terms of types of personality profile that they want in a woman (values here are key, but so are other compatibilities). But the attraction stuff is required in both c…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 01:47 PM
2

I think the guys who are overdosing on porn are generally not the guys who women find attractive in any case. For the guys who have GFs and wives who are ODing on porn to the degree that it is causing ED, there is something else in the relationship that isn't working right, otherwise they wouldn't be looking at so much porn. If you fix that other thing in the relationship, the porn use would fall off and the ED would fix itself.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 01:44 PM
5

Yes, precisely, it is also the core of her hotness. It's a "cap" in a way, but her "accessibility" is a part of what makes her hot as well.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 01:42 PM
5

Right. It isn't that JLaw is not attractive -- she's quite attractive. Everyone knows that. However, she isn't more attractive than, say, the average cheerleader at USC or UCLA. She's in the same range -- so very attractive, but not other-worldly. There are actresses who are much, much more other-worldly attractive than JLaw and so that's where the "critique" comes from. JLaw is as attractive as the very attractive women you still come across in real life, whereas the top tier Hollywood women ar…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 12:50 PM
3

There are a lot of reasons for it, and many of them are not related to porn.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 12:41 PM
2

Because the ones there of both sexes get stupid amounts of sexual attention, and it goes to their heads. It's fairly straightforward.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 12:28 PM
7

Average is indeed well and truly over, across the board. You either accept and overcome average, or you sink. It's a reversion to the mean of history, where average was always crap, and elite meant everything. The more markets you free up -- economic, sexual, etc. -- the more average is over, because in any free market, elites take the lion's share.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 02:34 AM
7

Same can be said for men -- be acceptable so that you can get cucked by an alpha widow who has lane changed from the CC to you because of babies rabies. With few exceptions, I don't know why men do it. Except ... I do. There is always hope. There is always discernment. There is always the possibility of something better than the standard schlock this crap culture serves up to men and women. What is required, of men and women alike, is to take up the challenge, and not accept the schlock. Are you…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 02:31 AM
8

Men need to do a lot to be acceptable to society as well. We all need to adapt to expectations or suffer from our lack of doing so, regardless of our sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 02:10 AM
25

Same for men. In the 70s you didn't need to be Chad to get laid frequently, either, but now the requirements are higher. It's across the board. College degrees required for almost all jobs (not in 70s). 2-3 car garage homes, never heard of in 70s. Men and women expected to be trim, buff and hot well into late 40s. Not expected in 1970s. Expectations for everything have been upped. Thank capitalism for that. Without always upping expectations, you can't keep consumer demand on a boil, which is wh…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 02:03 AM
4

Vasectomy is just simpler.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 01:59 AM
1

I've read some of Manson's stuff and haven't found it that useful, but I can understand why others may find him appealing.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 01:15 AM
1

I think the worldview difference is too extreme to have any kind of dialogue. We believe generalizations are useful despite their limitations (which we dispute on the margins). They believe generalizations are evil despite any general usefulness they may have (which they dispute on the margins). It's really not reconcilable. I can understand how individuals can come up with their own pastiche from each, to a greater or lesser degree, cobbled with some other things from themselves, but there isn'…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 12:58 AM
1

Could be the case there. I doubt that would be the case with the average 21 year old hooker in the US.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 12:53 AM
1

More or less, yes. It has to do with the imbalance in attraction. That is, men are attracted to more women than vice-versa, even for relationships, so women are still in the drivers seat in the relationship market, apart from the casual market. Women basically control both the sex and relationship markets because men are attracted to more women than vice versa. This will likely never change because the basis is almost certainly biological.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 12:50 AM
3

Remember, though, that TBP subreddit was specifically set up as a troll sub. It's not anything other than that, and almost all of the blue contributors are of that ilk as well. It's a case of fundamentally disingenuous trolling as compared with red pill posters, which is why we have managed to swing more people our way here than vice versa to a large degree, and why there are also so many BP sympathetic yet black or purple handles.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 12:35 AM
2

Yep. That's where I hang, not really on TRP subreddit, which is a latecomer to the red pill anyway.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 12:26 AM
1

It's not a political party, and my own allegiances predate the establishment of the subreddit. I honestly don't care much about the extremists, because the larger red pill is not a political party or cause, it is a set of shared understandings, and none of the core ones are the ones you have mentioned there. So honestly, no impact on me.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/16 12:25 AM
2

Tranny stuff is in the gay direction, I agree, and likely where he picked up the disease.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 11:11 PM
1

In addition, and I think this is something a lot of guys don't realise or acknowledge, women's desire for men is very specific and individualistic. One woman's junk is another woman's diamond. To a certain extent this is true, which is just re-emphasizes the standard RP advice of "approach, approach, approach", because there is no real way of telling whether any one woman will have you in her niche or not until you approach. So maximize your SMV and approach, approach, approach.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 11:10 PM
2

Not in the US, as far as I can tell.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 11:07 PM
1

If the totality of the circumstances suggest a zipless fuck, I agree.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 11:06 PM
1

I think many men like a mix of both -- I agree that it isn't true that men only want casual sex, and that women only want relationships. I do think that the mix is that men want casual more than women do, which makes that market, in terms of market power, skew towards women due to supply and demand issues. In the relationship market, there is still a market skew in favor of women, but it's due not to the imbalance in demand for casual sex, but rather the imbalance in general attraction as betwee…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 08:44 PM
1

In general I agree, with the caveat that most people after 35 are rather unattractive and have little dating power, of either sex. If you're one of the few attractive ones, you have a lot more power, relatively speaking, than in the 20s, because in the 20s fewer people are totally unattractive than in the 40s. So the key is being in the small group of attractive people. But, at all equal levels of attractiveness, women have more power than men, because of the inexorable law of supply and demand …
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 08:37 PM
3

Yes they are mostly very young, which can make it interesting at times.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 08:35 PM
2

I don't patronize hookers, but from what I've seen on the internet it seems about average around here. Maybe it's cheaper elsewhere.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 08:27 PM
2

That's a truism of life in general.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 08:26 PM
5

Yes, the old Charlie Sheen line. He also managed to live with pornstars, but alas, he has paid a price for this, it would appear.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 08:21 PM
3

High, low, average?
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 08:10 PM
1

Right, which is why I said in a few of my comments in this very thread that there is an imbalance in supply and demand for casual sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 08:10 PM
3

We had this discussion already today in the other thread pretty extensively. Summary from my perspective: most people, male and female, don't age well due to poor diets and lack of exercise, sleep, drinking and so on. Those who have good genes and work hard to take care of themselves can look good, of either sex, well into their 40s. There aren't many of these people, but they do exist. They're more common, of course, in Hollywood, where one's livelihood and entire image is bound up by appearanc…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 05:59 PM
1

Right. The options are mistress/paramour, hooker/gigilo, or suffer alone. I think most people who can will go the unpaid route, but others who are less attractive, or perhaps some guys who want to avoid a Fatal Attraction type situation, go the hooker route.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 05:51 PM
2

Sometimes they are in dead bedrooms. Sometimes the wife won't do certain things and so on. I knew one couple who got married a few years ago, they were a bit older and Christian. It was his second marriage and her first. They had lots of sexual issues relating to not only frequency, but also things like fellatio, which she wouldn't perform at all. That marriage ended in divorce within a short number of years (and not just due to the fellatio issue), but there are other marriages where the man wi…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 05:37 PM
2

Wouldn't surprise me.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 05:34 PM
2

Generally speaking from what I have read, the main clientele of hookers is married men, not single incels, or volcels or what have you.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 04:31 PM
2

I have a kid. Red pill, divorced, engaged. Raised my son fairly red pill, but he's also mostly a natural so it hasn't been difficult on him.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 04:26 PM
12

There wasn't very high quality HD porn in every imaginable flavor available for free on every smart device at the turn of the 2oth century. For most guys, they can't be bothered with shelling out $300+, possibly getting an STD, possibly running into law enforcement, for no particular guaranty of a good time, when they have a very reliable outlet in free, high quality, private porn. I'd guess that when this was not available, prostitutes were more popular than they are now, because there really w…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 04:07 PM
0

Sure, that's an option as well, although it also requires men to be attractive. There are TRP guys who are also not going for casual sex. The guys the OP is writing about are generally interested in casual sex, however, at least to some degree, which is the source of their dismay. Again, the red pill philosophy sees this as being a normal part of a free sex market due to imbalances in supply and demand for casual sex, so being upset about it is not sensible for any extended period of time. Some …
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 03:57 PM
3

These things always come down to subjective taste and preference, so usually not very edifying, but here goes ... First it depends on what her competitive set it. You could put her in the 35-45, where she is in the middle of the age range, or in the 40-50. She fares well in both, but better in the latter than in the former. When I look at her candids, I don't see a clear 9/10 in either comp set, at least not with my eyes. I'm comparing her in my mind to the women I know in real life who are in g…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 03:40 PM
2

It's hard to know what you're really saying. In your OP you said "why some men think women have it so easy.. because they only pay attention to hot women". I've explained a few times why I don't think that's the reason -- it's the access to casual sex that's the reason, and that isn't exclusively hot women. You countered that by saying that my point was irrelevant because not all women want casual sex, but I don't see that as a counter, because (1) I admitted as much in very first comment in thi…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 03:29 PM
16

This is mostly true. Many of the women who are complaining in that situation are not unattractive, but they require a guy who literally checks every single box on a 500-box list, so they tend to wait a bit too long to find him, and then end up standing when everyone else's chair is filled and the music stops. They they go and write a whine in The Atlantic or something.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 03:21 PM
2

I wouldn't describe her that way, but it's fine -- that's a gradation upon which men will have some variance. Regardless of the gradation, I think we both agree she is attractive, which is close enough.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 03:17 PM
2

Your comment was a good summary as well, and covered a lot of points I didn't cover, so it's very useful as well.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 03:16 PM
1

Again, for the third time, I think many of us understand and agree that not all women are chasing casual sex. The point is that enough sub-25 women are such that men notice, and they want to partake as well. RP says "ok, but don't whine, instead work and improve so that you can partake", and recognizes that this will always be an imbalance. To a certain degree it's true that some women get more noticed than some men, but it isn't only the hot ones who get noticed, because it isn't only the hot o…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 03:16 PM
4

As I said, i think many of us recognize that, but it doesn't make it much easier for guys who are under sub-25 and seeing a lot of women have at least some casual sex much more easily than they can. Again, red pill teaches that these guys should not become bitter or whiny, but should improve so that they can partake in the situation as they wish. But I think it isn't hard to understand why some may be incented to whine -- after all, this is why the philosophy specifically advises not to do this,…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 02:51 PM
12

I think this partly ties in with why some men think women have it so easy.. No the reason is that all women, and not just the hot ones, do have it easier trying to get casual sex. Also it isn't only hot women who have access to "Chad" for sex, if they want that. I think we understand that there are a good number of women who do not want that, but for the younger guys sub-25 in age, it certainly looks like a lot of women do want that, and so the imbalance is felt there. Really, it's silly to get …
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 02:39 PM
6

Amanda Hamilton I'd say she's attractive, but most of her shots are glamour shots, which have been touched up. She looks great here, for example. Here, however, which is more of a candid, with less makeup and more typical real life lighting (and no touchups as far as I can tell), she looks more normal. She's definitely well-maintained for 41, no doubt, but a lot of her photos are glamour shots that don't really reflect how she would look sitting in a meeting at the office, although I'm sure she'…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 02:09 PM
8

What you write is true, but also irrelevant. Why? Precisely because the reality is that, due to diets and people not "taking care of themselves" and so on, the average person, male or female, over 35 isn't very attractive. This applies to men who don't take care of themselves as well (red pill has never suggested you can be a fat, bald 40 year old guy and score 20 year HB9s, after all). The "wall", to differentiate between men and women at these ages, really became a shorthand expression to refe…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 01:29 PM
1

It sounds to me like you're probably too sensitive to handle typical intra-male banter and ball-busting. It's just a part of how we interact, generally, and it's very useful for guys to get comfortable with one another and also to not get carried away with themselves and their own little problems, insecurities and so on -- you learn to have a thicker skin, and roll with things, both inside and outside of those experiences. It sounds like it doesn't fit you -- that's fine, it doesn't fit every si…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 12:50 PM
8

The only issue is that she isn't very up front with what she is doing -- if she were, then I would have no issue with it, because essentially it's like a free hooker for these guys.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 12:42 PM
1

48, M, red, 3 times a week is fine at this point -- very busy with other things and other priorities in my life, and the libido, while still there, isn't what it was when I was 22, of course.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/16 02:20 AM
2

Blue marriage to divorce after 7 years in early noughts. Laid low for a few years then started researching and ended up in the manosphere -- that was around 2006-7, and "TRP" as a subreddit would not exist for a long, long time. It was a while before people would start calling the set of ideas "the red pill", as well, and also before things started to branch off into separate groups like MRAs and MGTOWs and so on. It's been interesting to watch it evolve over the past 8-9 years, but the subreddi…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/16 11:40 PM
2

No-one has any right to tell her what to wear, under any circumstance whatsoever. And the rapper had the obligation to make sure she was of age before he contacted her. See, life is simple in blue pill world.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/16 11:36 PM
7

Yup, only want it to stop when it comes from betas.
/r/TheRedPill06/01/16 07:58 PM
1

As distasteful as eugenics generally is, something like it is likely going to be needed at some stage, but for different reasons than the ones you state. Automation is basically going to create a significant crisis, which will hit men much harder than it will women, at least initially (eventually it will hit women as well, I think). There will simply be far too many men, well in excess of the jobs they are needed to do (and the new jobs created by automation won't be nearly enough to replace wha…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/16 01:13 PM
2

I agree -- I am just saying that the logic of the OP is fairly absurd.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/16 01:02 PM
7

To me this is more of a combination of (1) heightened expectations of life in Western countries (more potential, so more expectation and a greater tendency to be dissatisfied when you undershoot) and (2) greater expectations from life that many women have as compared with men (male tendency to be satisfied with less, generally, and generally more content on average than women). So women are doing well in the West, but the opportunity ceiling in all areas of life is higher here, so there is also …
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/16 12:53 PM
4

It's not cheating because you can rationalize that you were just looking for a new job -- if one comes up that you like, you leave your job, but if not, you stay and keep looking, right? I'm sure most people in agreed monogamous relationships would 100% agree with this "logic" ...
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/16 12:48 PM
3

This really depends on what one defines as "romantic love". I personally don't have a lot of time for romantic love, and find it hokey, but I do engage in romantic gestures from time to time because I realize that my fiancee, like most women, likes/needs this as an expression of love. I can't be bothered being on the receiving end of such gestures, however, and she's aware of that as well. I'm fine with the everyday "doing things for each other", of course, but those aren't specifically "romanti…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/16 12:45 PM
1

This is indeed what I was describing in the other thread, which seems to have led to this thread. For men, there is a compartmentalization going on when it comes to sex-qua-sex. It's similar to the desire for food or libation -- it's always there, and you like variety. Of course sex is also a central element of a meaningful love-based relationship between heterosexual men and women, but quite a few men, especially of above average levels of testosterone, will experience the desire for sexual var…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/16 02:26 AM
1

Red. Butts.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/16 08:42 PM
2

I guess I don't see the mainstream culture of that era as being exclusively reflective of male sexual preferences -- some parts of it were more than others, of course, but much of it had to do with what was happening with women. The rise in sexualization really goes back to earlier pre-war feminism in the 20s, I think.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/16 08:28 PM
2

it's true that the overall culture is more sexualized, which raises the importance of sex. I'm just not sure that this is specifically based on male perceptions of sex. That's certainly the case for almost all porn, which is directed primarily at men (although there's now a small subset of porn that is directed at women, and a lot of that seems to be lesbian in nature), but I'm not sure that when Susie wants a guy who can give her good orgasms and has a penis that is of a certain girth, she's be…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/16 08:17 PM
8

The culture is more sexualized, but I see this as being the result of unleashing female sexuality, rather than the cause of that/ When the link between sex and procreation was well and truly severed (made into an "opt in" scenario), female sexuality became capable of expression in ways that were more similar to male sexuality, because the risk of pregnancy was dramatically reduced. So we began to see what women actually were like, sexually, when they didn't have to worry about getting pregnant. …
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/16 05:46 PM
2

It's hard I think for a woman to understand, perhaps. The polygynous urge is based on the desire for sexual variety. It isn't really generally about discarding the wife in favor of the mistress, it's about having both. Most men who have affairs don't want to leave their wives, they want to have their cake and eat it too, in terms being able to be with the woman they love and yet have the sexual variety they crave. It's certainly disloyal and, in my opinion, immoral, but the man isn't doing it be…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/16 02:44 PM
2

You should be speaking French there, not English. It's Quebec. I've gotten surly service normally in Quebec, but that's part of the Gallic experience there I think.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/16 02:40 PM
5

To me it means "I am a ballbusting feminist and I don't need men". That's fine, it just means I'm not interested in a romantic sense. I work with many SIW types and I get along with them just fine, but I'd never want to be in a relationship with them.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/16 02:28 PM
3

Men tend to love women in a more idealistic way than vice versa. It makes sense, due to women's greater vulnerability, and it isn't an issue unless men expect women to love them in the same way -- that leads to problems. A man should always expect a woman's love for him to be extremely fragile and unreliable, and should plan and act accordingly.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/16 02:26 PM
1

Any more context? Not much to go on there.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/16 02:08 PM
1

The thing is, if you go the transgender route, at some point you're high and dry, because, when pushed, it conflicts with feminism in terms of claiming inherent sex/gender differences and so on. (Mostly) men using their patriarchal privilege to appropriate a male stereotype of femininity, and reinforce the notion of the gender binary and all of that lovely ideology -- you'll never be a "womyn born a womyn", from the perspective of the feminists, so you'll kind of be high and dry. It isn't a good…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/16 02:01 PM
2

Agree.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 09:25 PM
3

Just disagree with you.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 06:14 PM
7

Sure, if you bring what they do to the table, which almost no men who are like that do. So it's a useless Hollywood fantasy.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 05:17 PM
5

It comes awfully close.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 05:16 PM
16

Not a strategy for social change, but a strategy for having successful relationships with women that are not feminist. My fiancee (Phd, tenured professor) and I met on the internet in the manosphere, not on a dating site. Our mutual antipathy to 2-3 wave feminism is a part of what drew us together (of course many other things keep us together). Our relationship isn't feminist other than in the sense that she has her own stuff going on professionally, but we are both older and I have already had …
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 04:56 PM
11

Who cares? It's still a cheating whore scenario, as it was with my ex-wife. Of course people (men and women alike -- the men who cheat are also not having their needs satisfied by their wives, but for the most part society and the blue pill doesn't give a shit about those needs, because they are male needs, and males who have needs are entitled bitches who need to grow up) who are happy don't cheat, but everyone who cheats chooses to act on their unhappiness by cheating. Why be an apologist for …
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 04:51 PM
15

If you want to get laid as a Woody Allen type, you need to be a well-produced and respected Hollywood film director who has the power and influence to shape the career paths of hot women (actresses), and actually succeed at that. Good luck.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 04:17 PM
3

Arguments based on reason are all just human arguments, and, as such, philosophical arguments about morality have never led to a lasting, as opposed to a temporary, consensus. That will not change.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 03:32 PM
4

Don't agree. Don't you love that? There is no consensus view on morality in our society, there is only consensus, from time to time, on what is socially sanctioned and what is socially shamed. For you to say that God has nothing to do with morality is a nonsense statement to any religious believer, regardless of the religion they believe in, but I accept your statement as valid, in a social sense, as any other, because, again, there is no consensus social morality. We all have our own personal m…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 03:16 PM
3

Greater success at everything in life, really. Better focus, better understanding of dynamics. It's across the board, not just dealing with women, but much broader.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 03:07 PM
5

I disagree with your conception of morality -- mine comes from God, not secular ideas of individualism. And I will exercise power that I have in ways that are consistent with that moral system, and not your own conception of some kind of social morality that morphs every time society decides something new is morally acceptable. I don't preach my morals to others publicly either, but I will use my own power, such as it is, to act on them as I see fit.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 03:03 PM
5

I will take that up with my own conception of the deity when the time comes. However, since I was in college, I have understood that this is primarily about the exercise of power, if and when you have it, however you wish to use it. And that is how I use mine, so be it. Moral justifications are almost always simply that, to reinforce the use of power to serve one's own prerogatives.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 02:43 PM
1

It's not hard, if you make time to be social. You don't have a pre-fabricated social environment like you do in a residential college. To be honest, the social environment in college is a crutch, like training wheels. In the rest of your life, you need to decide what you want from life, and go out and take it. That includes a social life. Plenty of people have very active, engaged, vibrant social lives in their 20s, 30s, 40s and beyond -- it requires, however, time and effort to construct, like …
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 02:35 PM
6

I will shame whom I wish to, and how I wish to. You can fuck right off this subreddit if you think you'll ever convince me not to do so. You have no right, and I have no interest.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 02:30 PM
3

I disagree. It is about the exercise of power.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 02:29 PM
3

Too late for that I'm afraid. I'm 48 and well entrenched in the power hierarchy where I am. Look, everyone in power has biases. Switch people and you switch the bias. In my environment I exercise my biases covertly whereas human resources exercises their anti-male bias overtly. So it all comes out in the wash.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 02:20 PM
3

Yes, it is.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 02:16 PM
4

I disagree -- I am in favor of social sanction, because that's how we generally police behaviors, short of the law enforcement process. It works, generally, and I am fully supportive of it applying to people accused of rape as well as sluts.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 02:12 PM
6

The beta -- he should have known what was coming. It's 2015. There is the internet, TRP, Rollo, Roissy. Any guy who gives a damn can figure some stuff out, and I do blame those who don't. Incels are often unfortunates who, regardless of how much they improve, can't find a mate. There have always been these types, although in a free sex market, there will of course be more of them. I have sympathy for them, but they're fucked, and in many cases nothing they can really do about it. So I don't disd…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 02:10 PM
13

No, the difference in size, speed and strength, and the fact that only women get pregnant, are the biggest sex differences. The difference in sexual focus is important but less than the obvious physical differences, because it's the physical differences that create a kind of existential insecurity in women that tends to drive many of their behaviors.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 02:05 PM
3

Drawing broader social conclusions from the lifestyle of celebrities is generally a fool's errand, and this post is no exception.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 02:03 PM
4

I don't whine about guys being in that situation, and nor should anyone. The focus there should be on the legal procedures at the colleges involved, or the courts. Changing social opinion about men who are accused of rape is senseless -- that social censure exists for very good reasons to police behavior, even in the accusation. The key is to make the legal process strict so that the accusations are more accurate (and penalties for inaccurate accusations, which disincentivize them) and not chang…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 02:01 PM
6

Ruining her life in terms of not giving her a job, not making her your wife and so on -- sure. The justification is simple: very poor decision making history. I have no issue with shunning people like that -- none at all, and I would expect the current society to shun me based on my expression, if I expressed it publicly.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 01:57 PM
7

Shaming is fine -- it is not illegal, and it is free expression. If it gets to the point where shaming expression itself is shamed, then it won't be expressed. Bottom line: society as a whole polices what is acceptable expression, and I am fine with that (and I know that it works mostly against people like me, because most of what I believe is not acceptable expression publicly, but I am fine with that).
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 01:56 PM
4

Look, people have to face the social consequences of their actions, period. I in no way, shape or form support any campaign to make individual actions consequence free in a social sense.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 01:54 PM
5

Certainly this is what the broader culture agrees with, and what SJW and the department of education are backing every single day. Why should college men be treated that way and not sluts?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 01:44 PM
8

Shaming is totally appropriate if, in the person's opinion, the behavior of the other person is shameful. Freedom of expression. In no way at all do I agree with the idea that we should censor our own, or support the censoring of others', expression because we think it is "not nice" expression. Fuck that, to be honest. Expression is what it is, and if enough people in the culture find the expression itself shameful, it will cease to be publicly expressed. Until then, it is what it is, and a slut…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 01:42 PM
10

They are well aware of these consequences -- if they don't like them, they shouldn't do porn. It's not like they aren't aware. I do not agree that everyone is obligated to make everyone else's life choices as consequence free as possible. We have our opinions about other's life choices, and those are the consequences.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 01:39 PM
8

Alpha widow (which takes one guy) maybe, but slut? No. Slut is repeated behavior. A woman chooses to be one, she is never tricked into being one.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 01:29 PM
3

Of course all of those people are morally culpable for their actions. The smoker has destroyed her life physically, the gambler has done the same thing financially, the porn star may or may not have done so to her life, and the slut has done the same. No-one is forcing any of these people to do what they do -- they all choose to do it. Yes, the actors on the other side of the table are shady, but that's very well known by everyone, including the people who choose to partake. The people who choos…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 01:26 PM
2

Mean? Who said that?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 03:50 AM
1

What are you on about, again?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/16 02:12 AM
1

Self improvement. Hobbies. Interests. Living life in general. Lots of great things in life don't involve women, getting laid or having an orgasm. The issue is that the culture since the sexrev has basically told everyone that the orgasm is a prime directive in the hierarchy of human actualization. It's worshiping sex. I have a fairly balanced view, because I am not an incel -- divorced with a teenaged kid and now a fiancee who is red pill herself. I am not deprived. But I do think that the truly…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/16 10:55 PM
2

Sure, but ... didn't contradict what I wrote, I think, unless I am missing something.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/16 10:52 PM
1

The other thing that's going on, I think, is just the increased atomization of Western society and the maximization of individual liberty that people have mentioned in other contexts. Yes that's also a very big factor, I fully agree.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/16 10:19 PM
2

Read Rollo. Also, similar to feminism, the red pill is not monolithic. They're not the only ones who get to say that, yanno?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/16 10:18 PM
1

Possibly to a 4 physically (although for guys who are, say, under 5 foot 6, unlikely to be more than a 3 in physical terms alone), but it's the rest of it, as you say, that can cap people lower than that. Women can get similarly capped physically if they have a truly unattractive face (not just a plain one ... plain can get to a 4 with makeup) as well. I just think it's not enough nowadays to be decent and loyal and to care about someone...people expect more than that even if they're settling, w…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/16 08:15 PM
4

I'd recommend Rollo Tomassi's blog, "The Rational Male". Rollo is in his late 40s, has been married for about 20 years and has a teenage daughter, and is very much about the theory of the red pill, what lies behind it and so on. Note that he isn't "married red pill" per se -- he is a red piller who is married. His posts get linked at the TRP subreddit, but mainly he has his own commenting cohort at the blog -- it trends older, and is diverse (some married, some not, etc.). It's probably the most…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/16 08:06 PM
1

I agree with that -- those are really not the truly unfortunates I was describing, just the merely unattractive. So people with few options, but some options which are bearable. Today, these are like the 4s of the market, and in some cases the 3s. Not attractive generally, but many of them do still mate up with each other in pragmatic marriages (because they prefer marrying an unattractive person than being alone, in most cases). This is still happening, but I agree that it has become harder bec…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/16 03:55 PM
3

The issue is that there is a significant number of guys who are destined to have low SMVs (short, bald, bad facial genetics, bad physical genetics, unattractive health conditions, disfavored racial group, etc.) and who also don't have it in their grasp to get rich or famous. They're basically fucked (or, rather, they are not fucked, in fact). I think for a lot of these guys, if they can't stomach being with a very unattractive woman, their focus should be on other things in their lives. It makes…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/16 03:07 PM
8

Roosh isn't red pill. You realize he had a massive falling out with red pill last year? He's onto a new "change the world" schtick which is pretty much the opposite of the red pill, and that's what his groupies over there now follow, too -- not the red pill. You're really only displaying how little you understand about the various branches of the manosphere, really.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/16 02:52 PM
3

Almost no men are red pill, so you pretty much don't have to do anything in particular. If you come across one of us, you'll have been pretty unlucky, because almost all guys are very deeply blue pill in 2015.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/16 02:49 PM
1

Very risky, in my view. I've personally seen more than a couple of marriages go poof when there are unilateral SMV changes like that.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/16 02:46 PM
6

Short of actual brainwashing NO AMOUNT of RP is going to convince me all women are sluts. I DO however believe that all women have the capability of being a slut, and under certain circumstances may very well follow that desire to her demise. Which is more or less what that concept is about. All women have the potential given certain circumstances, not that factually all women are sluts.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/01/16 10:14 PM
3

It definitely is the contemporary prevalent view. Sometimes it's crosdressed as "emphasizing communication" or some pablum like that, but in reality what that usually means is "listen to your wife and do what she wants". It's the dominant paradigm, which is why there are so many marriages with whipped, deferring husbands married to sexually disappointed women.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/01/16 10:02 PM
2

Very bad idea. Changes to the "SMV delta"(ie, the gap between SMVs) during the course of the relationship usually lead to problems if unilateral. Why? Let's say a 6 gets with a 4 with the idea of making them into a 6. Well, the reality is that the 4 snagged a 6 when they were a 4. So when they are a 6 themselves, they don't want what they were able to get as a 4, but who they can get as a 6, and many will think they can grasp up again like they dI'd when they were a 4. The 6, on this circumstanc…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/01/16 07:47 PM
3

There are plenty of white guys, including quite desired ones, married to east Asian women. Indian women are less common.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/01/16 07:39 PM
1

Disagree there. Sex does get old, and money has lots and lots of different uses.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/01/16 03:28 PM
5

You're joking, right? East Asian women are not at rank 9, nor are Latinas. Indian and East Asian men, sure.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/01/16 03:26 PM
6

The point is that the female equivalent doesn't need to pay for it. That's because of an imbalance between the sexes in terms of interest in sex in and of itself -- always more male demand than female demand.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/01/16 03:16 PM
17

I'm not saying it's moral, but that it's socially supported. Society will always shame its losers, both to reinforce its norms as well as police the hierarchy its norms create. So most accept the shaming of losers -- Just how it is.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/01/16 05:55 PM
21

Men are shamed because they are losers -- being a sexual loser is a shameful thing, so these guys are looked down on. It makes sense. Feminists and bloops don't like shaming women for promiscuity because they see it as not being losers, like men who are sexual have nots, but rather as an effort to control women's sexuality, which they see as disempowering. Whether we agree with their perspective or not, if you do have the feminist perspective, their view is consistent with it. The bottom line is…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/01/16 05:35 PM
6

Who said men don't want slus to exist? There have always been sluts. The issue is the behavior of non sluts, which radically changed after the sexual revolution so that the difference between sluts and non sluts decreased, reducing the attractiveness of non sluts women for marriages. It's these women who are being critiqued, not the true sluts, because true sluts have always existed, and men have always used them for pleasure.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/01/16 02:57 PM
14

When people end up marrying, more or less. Not for sex, though.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/01/16 02:52 PM
5

Not relevant for red pill at all because, as you recognize yourself, the red pill is about suceeding in the present scenario, and not changing it to some preferred ideal. As for what a preferred ideal might be, you will have opinions all over the place, which is to be expected, because it's irrelevant for red pill praxis. So we have our own, divergent views about it like we do about anything else that is not related to red pill praxis.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/01/16 02:28 PM
3

Oh it's fairly easy to tell, I find. The exact number you can't tell, but you can tell where they fit in terms of socio-sexuality "band" without much difficulty, which is more important than the actual N.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/01/16 02:22 PM
1

Yes they do have it easier at that age. That's life in sexual free market with limited social morality. Rather than getting pissed about something you can't change, work on what you can (you ), so that things are better for you once the college fishbowl period ends.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/01/16 02:18 PM
1

It seems like a reddit thing. In general, interracial dating, while more common than ever, is still not that common. Most people mate intra-racially, including most Asian women. However, among the more limited subset which does date interracial, there is a market hierarchy which disfavors Asian men in that interracial dating market, so their irritation is understandable but not something they can do much about.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/01/16 12:06 AM
1

Not a problem if you are going for less attractive women. If you are going for attractive women, it's a mismatch because you're short, have the stereotype nerd comp science background and so on which means you're not attractive enough for attractive women.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/12/15 11:49 PM
3

It's fairly simple, really. A fisherman shouldn't be taking advice from fish about his fishing, and a fish shouldn't be taking advice from a fisherman, either. The sexes have a competitive and collaborative relationship when it comes to these things, which leaves them at least partially at cross purposes, regardless of what they may consciously intend.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/12/15 10:55 PM
5

Yes I agree. Some can improve to be winners, but most won't or can't (or both). If you're in that large group, slacking has its own logic in the short to medium term (and guys who are long term oriented typically aren't the kind who are slacking to begin with).
/r/PurplePillDebate31/12/15 02:00 PM
10

The best solution is to be one of the men in the winners circle. These tend to be pretty masculine guys for the most part. If you can't cut that, going for androgeny won't help you, because straight men and women don't generally care for androgynous men very much (if you're bisexual and want to go for men who like feminine/androgyne men, that could work out).
/r/PurplePillDebate31/12/15 01:57 PM
2

It almost never happens that way in practice, because kids are expensive, and the additional income goes to the expenses of the kids (including, eg, moving to great school district, which means spending $$$$$ on a house).
/r/PurplePillDebate31/12/15 01:40 PM
4

Keep in mind that as Rollo says, women are actually attracted to betas, but not like they are attracted to alpha/Chad. Basically the attraction to betas is for comfort, which isn't just provision, but also emotional intimacy and companionship and so on. That attraction is real, and it does have a sexual component to it, but it isn't primarily sexual in the same way her visceral sexual attraction for Chad during her ovulation phase works. So the woman you marry who fucked Chads in her 20s will st…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/12/15 01:07 PM
8

Crisis is an overstatement. The situation is simple enough, and most people are aware of what it is -- men are no longer specifically needed in most areas of life (barring a small number of remaining jobs that categorically require male physicality). This now openly includes parenting as well as provision/protection (while the presence of a male figure in a child's life may be admitted by some as being preferable, it is generally in no way seen as needful). Without a clearly needed role to play,…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/12/15 12:56 PM
8

This depends on whom you marry, what your goals in life are, and whether you are prepared, and capable, of running the marriage properly. In addition, you should both be highly educated, upper middle class, and with at least the same level of income.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/15 06:09 PM
3

It's responsive to the question of how it may said that women find most men unattractive -- the meaning is unattractive for just sex. Red pill doesn't claim that women find betas (80 percenters) completely unattractive, but rather that they aren't that attractive for sex-qua-sex, which is often the focus of the red pill to begin with.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/15 06:04 PM
3

No, but that's to be expected. At all levels of smv, women have greater access to sex per se than men do. They may not want to use that access like men do (some do more than others), but it's there.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/15 05:53 PM
4

Sexually attractive per se. The red pill, e.g. Rollo Tomassi's writings, claims that women are attracted to betas but in a different way than how they are attracted to alphas. It's less purely sexual. Women tend too see this as "higher" (as in, he isn't just a fuck boy, but someone I can love), whereas quite a few guys see it differently (as in, a man who has easier access to her sex is just more sexually attractive to her, when it comes to pure sex). Lots of the disagreement here relates to the…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/15 05:34 PM
2

Yes, exactly The same is true in other urban cores as well.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/15 03:20 PM
2

It's a specific environment, that's true, but it does seem to conform to reality in other contexts, where women are pickier than men are. This is even more true in environments where the screening is much more looks focused than other contexts (bars, clubs, online dating sites, Tinder, etc.)
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/15 03:17 PM
1

No most people are average, with average, and therefore rather flawed, genes.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/15 02:48 PM
2

Socializing is done with couples if you hang around with people who are married and live around them. There are large numbers of older singles in urban areas, and they don't primarily socialize with unrelated couples unless they choose to do so. Of course if you choose to do so, or to live in a suburb which is 90 percent couples with kids, then of course that is your choice.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/15 02:42 PM
2

Marriage isn't the exclusive means to wonen, sex and a social life in your 30s and beyond. The most RP living guy I know is in his late 40s, divorced (was married briefly in his early 30s ), an is never lacking in women and leads a very active social life. Generally these are attractive women in their early to mid 30s. Of course, he is handsome, in great shape, charming and financially successful -- all of those facilitate his social life. But he doesn't go without just because he hasn't decided…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/15 02:35 PM
2

Only very few have good genes.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/15 07:53 PM
2

No because alpha traits are very rare in men overall. The ABs exist, but they're super-rare, which is why they clean up.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/15 02:39 PM
1

Anywhere, and thanks for the downvote (mods, are you even watching, jesus christ).
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/15 04:55 AM
5

It's not a problem (RP theory expects this behavior), but it would be nice if women would admit openly, as men do, that they think with their genitals when it comes to sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/15 04:52 AM
2

Well, but that's a rather unlikely find. Most Bs are, by nature, not Fs. That's why most women who marry today "settle" for a BB. The winners get an AB or BF, but given supply and demand issues, most settle for a BB.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/15 04:23 AM
2

There is massive downvoting going on with mobiles. It's become a common plague, which encourages all of us to go onto our mobiles and counter it. This is silly. If there are going to be downvotes that you cannot control, you should make them legal here on the PC as well. As it stands now, this is just an inconvenience rather than a standard, because you can't enforce the standards you set (which I personally agree with, for what it's worth).
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/15 03:57 AM
1

It's all good. Listening to Tannhauser right now -- always just flows through me, like water just flowing right through my body. Just amazing music. And others who are reading, of any pill -- do yourselves a favor and get into opera. You won't regret it.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/15 03:10 AM
24

The "way around it" is that because straight white guys are "in power", the same actions taken by those who are "not in power" are viewed differently. The idea is that because straight white guys are in power, acting that way empowers them by oppressing others. The others who are oppressed by straight white guys, when they do the same thing as the straight white guys are doing, they are empowering themselves against the straight white guys, so it's liberating empowerment. The entire discourse is…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/15 03:07 AM
5

In your country, no, but here in the US, sure. Let's not assume that Eastern European ways are common elsewhere.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/15 02:59 AM
1

Carmen's main story is about how she trades up (or tries to) for the bullfighter, and how the beta/jilted ends up exploding in a jealous rage. That's just the main plot. Cosi is indeed subject to different interpretations, but, again, we disagree in that respect.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/15 02:27 AM
1

Fair enough. Should be obvious when speaking of art, but in any case I don't disagree with you in that specific respect.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/15 02:21 AM
5

Ideally women want to win the lottery and get an AB. Red pill theory agrees. The trouble arises from the reality that there are very, very few ABs. That leads to carouseling while trying to find one, and then lane changing while trying to effectuate plan B, which is BB rather than AB.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/15 02:20 AM
1

I've seen it performed live, yes. Just have a different view than you do, in terms of what was intended to be conveyed. We each see and emphasize, I think, what we choose to.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/15 02:14 AM
1

In your interpretation, which is fine. But my point is that this aria, perhaps alone among opera arias, kind of exists in its own space. And I doubt that Verdi did not intend that, despite the other interpretations available, simply by the way he wrote the score. He knew this would have the impression that it has, disregarding contextual analysis.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/15 01:55 AM
1

Sure -- as seen in this very well-known Verdi aria, just as a notable example: La donna è mobile Qual piuma al vento, Muta d'accento — e di pensiero. Sempre un amabile, Leggiadro viso, In pianto o in riso, — è menzognero. È sempre misero Chi a lei s'affida, Chi le confida — mal cauto il cuore! Pur mai non sentesi Felice appieno Chi su quel seno — non liba amore! In English: Woman is flighty Like a feather in the wind, She changes her voice — and her mind. Always sweet, Pretty face, In tears or i…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/15 12:36 AM
7

You were asking for opinions. Until there is a law that is binding on everyone, that's all you're going to get, so I gave you mine, and explained why, to me, it isn't hard. Your reflexively negative and trolling attitude, which typifies pretty much every single one of your posts and comments in this subreddit, is your own problem to deal with -- thank God it isn't mine.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/15 12:11 AM
6

I grew up as a Catholic Christian (now an Orthodox Christian), so it all falls under the rubric of "was a sexual sin committed". It's a pretty bright line, and there isn't that much vagueness. Any questions about vagueness (i.e., is kissing or making out a sin) are usually asked and answered in the teen years. Really there isn't any doubt in my mind as to what counts as an N.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/15 12:03 AM
2

The Christian perspective is this one: Eph 5: 22-28: Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/15 11:48 PM
1

I'm Christian and red pill, so yeah. It isn't about creating and growing a stable society in order to serve God. It is about conforming your humanity, through cooperation with the grace given by God, to the humanity of Christ, and thereby becoming one with God. (That's "red pill Christianity", or, rather, Orthodox Christianity.)
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/15 11:36 PM
7

Genital contact with another person, regardless of sex and regardless of whose genitals are exposed, works as a good baseline. See, it's not hard.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/15 11:34 PM
2

All kinds of idiocy is out there from men trying to advise other men about dating. It's mostly dreck, as this is.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/15 11:31 PM
8

It's dribble for the most part. Naturals do well, because they are naturals. For other men, that kind of approach doesn't work, and even if it does, the women with whom it will work are by far and away not worth the energy it takes to do that. Very few women are.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/15 11:25 PM
3

Feminism was never about equality -- that is a ruse. Feminism is about advancing the interests of women vis-a-vis men. They will not stop at equality, as is evidenced in the many areas where women have surpassed men, without feminists caring about that imbalance. Feminism is about advancing women. If you are a male feminist, you are a self-hating stooge who is paying obeisance to a movement which is designed to outmaneuver your sex (or you're an apex male who likes this, because it screws over a…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/15 09:40 PM
1

I'd say a small amount are very attracted to their partner -- probably 10% or so. Most, however, are somewhat attracted, or in their own minds, attracted enough, to their partner. But not very attracted. Women are very attracted to only a very, very small number of men, by nature.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/15 09:36 PM
2

All art is intended to represent truths that are universal, at least in some sense. Particularized art is journalism.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/15 05:23 PM
2

Opera reflects life, as the composer depicts it. It's not "realistic" (although some of Puccini's operas are trying to be more realistic), but the stylized portrayals depict deeper truths that are common to all reality -- as is the case with all good art.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/15 05:10 PM
1

Oh I don't think the form is inherently red -- anything can be poured into the form. It's that the standard operas are mostly red pill. When I wrote that in the OP what I meant was that the way it has been composed is red pill, which is the form as we know it. The form itself, of course, I am well willing to admit, is subject to being the expression of any worldview. It's just the form as we know it that I was speaking of. Figaro, in my view, is the lesson about hypergamy -- in other words, the …
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/15 04:30 PM
1

In some ways of course it reflects the era in which it was created, but in other ways it is universal. Where the division lies is the heart of the debate, I think. Unfortunately, most modern opera is not melodic, so won't get much attention. In the 20th century the academic/left musicologists turned away from commonly accepted notions of beauty in favor of atonality and intellectual interest. Didn't work so well with audiences, which again buttressed their own conceit of being "the only ones who…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/15 04:23 PM
1

True, some things can be interpreted differently, but overall the perspective isn't blue.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/15 04:08 PM
1

Precisely.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/15 04:05 PM
1

Which is what I said blues would say in my OP.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/15 04:03 PM
1

Blues seems similar, in my limited experience with it, I think, but because my experience with it is much more limited I really wouldn't say it is one way or the other, in general.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/15 04:02 PM
3

I read all sorts of books and not all of them are red pill in perspective (some are closer than others of course) -- same for films. The point of this post is that most opera standards are pretty red pill in perspective -- your counter to that is inapposite because you didn't address the subject of the post at all. And by the way, enjoying opera properly involves getting out of the house and away from the computer -- just saying. EDIT: And, in any case, there is no "perspective-free" scenario. Y…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/15 02:55 PM
2

Not actionable for lots of guys because the few women who may be attracted to them "as they are" are themselves not attractive to these guys. Hence the guys want to improve themselves so that they can attract women they are actually attracted to. The just be yourself strategy, which is what you wrote, only works if yourself attracts people you are attracted to.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/12/15 12:33 PM
2

You have to go for fat women. Being a geeky nerd as a male is the same as being fat as a woman. It's a match, really.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/15 04:14 PM
1

Men are, in fact, disposable -- not just biologically, but socially and, increasingly today, economically as well. There are just too many of them. Everyone would be better off if there were about 30-40% less men. Fewer mouths to feed and jobs to fill. Fewer unwanted approaches for women (the top 60% are more attractive than the lower 40%). Fewer frustrated men potentially becoming shooters or worse. Really, the world would be better with fewer men -- better for the men who make the cut, so to s…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/15 04:10 PM
1

Ideally, only the top half, at the most, of men should be permitted to mate, right? That would be eugenic. And feminist, too -- Margaret Sanger would enthusiastically agree.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/15 04:00 PM
2

Dunno what happened to him. Maybe he got hired in the industry finally and had to stop blogging negatively about it.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/15 03:51 PM
1

The meaningful thing is making sure your genes are replicated down the line and that the person in whom they are replicated is well positioned to replicate them again. Everything else is gravy, and insubstantial in the long run.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/15 03:50 PM
4

This. One of the nice things about the holidays is getting to spend time with family and friends, most of whom don't even know what cisgender means. Reddit is utterly unrepresentative of anything other than its own denizen base.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/15 03:48 PM
2

Bahaha.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/15 03:46 PM
2

Eh, red pill is very critical of guys who spend any significant amount of time watching porn, so not sure what the point here is. Porn is very heavily touted by the blue pill, however, under the rubric of personal freedom.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/15 03:41 PM
2

Heh Nicole, Dave from Hawaii, The Fifth Horseman, Obsidian, the whole crew. Was a great place before Raine wigged out (of course, he also pushed her too far imo, and that Romano is also a psycho, which he realized too late).
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/15 03:36 PM
9

And -- not all fears are illegitimate. In fact, when we gauge the suitability of a mate, we are always screening for things we "are afraid of" in the sense of messing things up down the road. It's a normal process of screening. You disagree with the filter, but that doesn't make the filter in this case illegitimate in itself.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/15 03:30 PM
7

If that's true, it's at least as legitimate as feminism, which is an official government policy at this point. Guys have a right to react as they see fit.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/15 03:29 PM
4

Lane changing -- i.e., CC from 15-26, BB/commitment from 28-35, then back to CC after 1.6 kids are over 6 years old. Lane changing. See Sheryl Sandberg's bestseller "Lean In", where she openly advocates for women to date unsuitable but fun guys when they are young and then settle down for the sensible guy when they are older. Lane changing.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/15 03:26 PM
2

Yep, which is why I always talk about Roissy, and not CH. CH is a different thing altogether, post Lady-Raine/Romano incidents.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/15 03:19 PM
1

Sure he does. Objectively a man is more turned on by a hotter woman -- just is so. More turned on, means "comes harder".
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/15 03:09 PM
1

This is basically what the guy I know does now, but the "relationships" with the main one don't last that long -- 9-15 months, and he isn't faithful during that stretch either.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/12/15 06:53 PM
2

Nice theory, but not true in my experience. The best plate spinner I know is a guy I've known since HS. We went to college together as well. He is now in his later 40s. He was married, briefly (less than 3 years) in his early 30s, but otherwise, he hops around from girl to girl. He's very good looking (handsome face), always in good shape (lifted weights since HS -- not a body builder, but developed and maintained), runs Game actively, has abundance mentality, and catches and releases on a regul…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/12/15 02:39 PM
1

Sure, because he ends up with a more attractive woman than he would otherwise.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/12/15 03:17 AM
5

Children can only be molded so much by their parents -- at some point they decide who they want to be themselves. Sometimes that matches how they were raised and sometimes it does not. So you just give them the upbringing you think is best and then they decide ultimately how to live their lives. This idea you seem to have that a woman who is brainy will never want to be submissive in a romantic relationship with a man appears to be projection on your part, however. My fiancee has a ~130 IQ and i…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/12/15 12:58 AM
6

Keep in mind that lots of guys on TRP subreddit are looking to have STRs and spin plates, and not LTRs. This is a particularly strong focus for guys in the 18-24 range on there. So they're interested in becoming candidates for STRs and FWB-type relationships, where general attractiveness rules the roost. I think guys who are looking for LTRs do take personality traits into account, but use the red pill ideas to make themselves more generally attractive, which broadens their pool. Keep in mind, p…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/15 10:24 PM
5

Aha, I agree with you. That doesn't happen very often. In my view, you get to the personality/compatibility issues once attraction is present, at least for men.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/15 10:20 PM
2

Yes would say that female peak beauty is generally from 17-24.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/15 10:15 PM
3

They don't agree on philosophy, which is why I think that's the direction they've gone. There's better philosophical discussion on the blogs than at TRP. TRP also skews very young, which has an impact on what's written there. The older manosphere writers are generally settled and not "angry" and so on, and also more interested in theory.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/15 07:12 PM
2

Yes, he is kind of the intellectual godfather of the manosphere, even though he, himself, is not a part of the manosphere and has never participated in it.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/15 07:07 PM
3

No, he just kept them separate so as not to contaminate the audience for it. He wrote it when he was an active participant at Roissy's blog.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/15 07:06 PM
2

The Futurist actually used to post on Roissy's site from around, oh, 2008-9 under the handle "TheFifthHorseman", and was a core manosphere contributor for a long time. Very into Game. He still turns up every now and then at Dalrock's site, but I don't see him very often, unless he is now mostly posting under a different handle. Devlin has never really participated in the manosphere, he has written articles, mostly in the Occidental Quarterly, which is definitely a rather right-wing publication.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/15 06:03 PM
2

Yes, that's a key difference -- men are not in their prime between 18 and 22. BP and RP disagree as to when that prime is, but I don't think anyone thinks it's between 18 and 22, whereas for women it's very much the beginning of their prime years without question. So there is a mismatch and it would be expected that sex would be concentrated because of that.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/15 05:42 PM
4

If that were true, feminism would never have come to pass. Men enacted feminism, because only men were in a position to enact it. If men only ever acted in their own sex's interests, women would never have even been granted the vote.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/15 04:12 AM
10

I'm an attorney and my ex-wife was also an attorney. It was endless conflict. Endless conflict. My fiancee currently is smarter than my ex-wife, is a PhD, but does not relish conflict and is submissive in the relationship. Believe me, this has nothing at all to do with what you do for a living, or one's capacity for dissecting opinions and arguments (my fiancee is, if anything, more skilled at this than my ex-wife is, but she doesn't want to use it in her personal life, and doesn't -- not just w…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/15 03:07 AM
6

Every system, including the governmental one of checks and balances, has an ultimate decider. If you are thinking of the US system of constitutional checks and balances, that ultimate decider is the Supreme Court. The buck always has to stop somewhere, and someone always has the power. In a two person relationship, of course there are not three branches as in the US system. So someone, ultimately, will rule, at least most of the time, even if that rule is by default/consent. Virtually all of the…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/15 02:03 AM
5

It wouldn't make much of a difference. Men are capable of representing more than the interests of their sex, and I think many women are capable of this as well. I dislike the idea that people represent principally the interests of their sex. I would have a slight concern about women's in-group preference, but hopefully highly educated and professional women would be able to look past that and not rule solely on the basis of the interests of their sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/15 12:33 AM
1

It's not that quotas are set, it's that if there are imbalances in some areas, then preferences are given to women in other areas. So there isn't a quota, per se, for my group, but rather HR strongly prefers women, unless compelling reasons dictate otherwise, so that they can achieve an overall ratio that they want for the company as a whole. It's subtly different from a quota in that if a superhero male applicant came along, they wouldn't pass him up, but otherwise they will prefer a woman in t…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/15 12:27 AM
1

I agree in that I do not think it will be a "norm". I think it will be more common than it is now, but also one option taken among many to deal with the "acceptable man shortage".
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 09:52 PM
6

I'd say most people who are red pill theorists think men and women are complementary, not equal in an egalitarian sense. Not all people who follow the red pill on a practical level think that way, however, because the core of the red pill is strategy, and there are people who adapt the strategy but who are otherwise feminist/egalitarian.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 09:35 PM
1

No, they haven't stopped looking, which I why I agree that women will want men. But that doesn't mean they will marry them, or that they will even live with them for longer than a relatively limited period of time. That's what we have seen in these communities where marriage has broken down for precisely the reason of "underperforming men" -- the women have men in their lives, on a now and then basis, but not a permanent or quasi-permanent one. Single motherhood (which obviously involves a man a…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 09:22 PM
1

I agree that they desire this, but I think where we are going is to a place where there are very few actually suitable men from the perspective of attraction for women. Economics, education trends underscore this. It doesn't mean women will shun men. But lasting partnerships will become fewer, just as we have seen in certain communities already in the US (the black community, and also the working class community in general).
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 09:00 PM
2

Eventually they get there, yes. Most when they start hate the current system because they are failing in it. If they improve and are actually thriving in it, they come to like the current system. Some play it both ways, of course -- thriving under the current system as it is but also noting that it's dysfunctional. Roissy/Heartiste is one of the latter, I think.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 08:55 PM
1

There were types who were hard to get married, that's true -- they often ended up in convents, monasteries or the priesthood. All of those options were well-supplied at that time. Also, the culture was not one of people openly having sex all the time like ours is -- in that culture, you were married or (in theory) you were celibate -- although of course that was broken often enough, it was not openly broken as is the case today. Today a sexual have-not really stands out like a sore thumb as a co…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 08:49 PM
1

I think he has some audio from it up somewhere now.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 08:44 PM
2

Dark Enlightenment is its own thing, really -- different priorities than red pill/manosphere. There's a small bit of overlap but not much of one.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 08:44 PM
2

It's also broader issues -- economics, materialism, individualism. There are many factors that play into this which, I agree, make changing the current scenario in the short to medium term rather unlikely. If those bowling pins fall at some point, then things may change, but the direction in which they would do so is very uncertain from today's perspective.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 06:22 PM
2

Maybe should be, but as a practical matter, in the US at least, it's mostly a status marker at this point. A luxury that some can afford and others cannot.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 06:08 PM
10

The red pill has never had "leaders" in the way you mean. It doesn't need them. It has ideas. The "proof" of the ideas, from the beginning, has always been in trying them and seeing if they work for you. Field testing. That's always been the test of the validity of the ideas, not the fact that "X is saying Y and I trust X because X has laid Z numbers of HB9+". That's never been the way the red pill has worked, from long before the subreddit was set up. It's never been based on leaders in the way…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 04:29 PM
6

Hmm? I was agreeing with you and characterizing the OP's issue in terms of expectations.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 03:58 PM
2

He's a bit neutral on dread game. It does come up from time to time on his site in the comments, and there are disagreements about it. He has never really endorsed it or denounced it, as far as I can remember. Also remember that Dalrock and Rollo have a lot of respect for each other and Rollo also participates at Dalrock's blog.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 03:57 PM
8

But Matt Forney has never been a TRP leader. Like never, ever ever. He is a web hustler, by his own admission, and his hustling predated In Mala Fide, which he also set up for clicks and ad money. He hasn't exactly hidden that ball, I think he actually wrote a book about being a web hustler. He certainly isn't any kind of "leader" in the red pill movement. Roosh is more complicated, because Roosh was there at the beginning, with Roissy and Rollo, so he was a leader at some point I guess but it w…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 03:54 PM
5

I think Rollo disinterests him because "he isn't pulling hot women in their 20s". OK, but a guy in his 20s can learn a lot from Rollo, I think. It just isn't in a formulaic "do thing X, thing Y and thing Z for 18 months and, voila, you're laying HB9s". I think if that is the expectation, and it seems to be the expectation of at least some of the younger readerbase at the subreddit, then it's an issue of expectations more than anything else I think.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 03:45 PM
2

Dalrock advocates game, actually -- it's been one of the sticking points between him and some of his commenters over the years. But broadly, yes, these guys are different from TRP in terms of the sub-reddit. I'm not very into the sub-reddit. I've always been more about the "red pill" in the manosphere at large, which is much broader, and much older, than the fairly new and narrowly focused TRP subreddit.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 03:27 PM
1

I have no idea. Rollo is married, and faithful to his wife, so he isn't in the game in that sense. His wife is very attractive, however. I've never cared much for Roosh or Forney, and I don't see them as leaders in the red pill world or even the manosphere in general. I'm more aligned with Rollo, Roissy and Dalrock, all of whom are closer to my age than yours.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 02:50 PM
3

In your 20s, yes, I agree for the most part that the 20s are a very hard time for men other than the top of the pile men -- it's like being a freshman in college, but for years on end. It gets better in the late 20s and around 30, and you don't have to be a BB at that age either -- it gets easier simply because you are no longer the tadpole you are when you are 23. But, anyway, the red pill never said otherwise, in terms of male 4s becoming male 8s-9s. You can go back as for as Roissy in DC sayi…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 02:34 PM
7

I think it's more that feminism combined with economic and technological changes to create the current brew we drink. Feminism really dates back to classical liberalism -- that's where it has its roots. John Stuart Mill. Marxism, as you rightly say, was glommed onto feminist ideas because it makes them more persuasive, especially when it comes to women (the physically weaker sex) playing the role of the proletariat in the Marxist story. It's also a totalizing theory -- it explains everything. Th…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 02:30 PM
3

I don't think that the red pill has ever claimed it will take a guy from 4 to 9. It can take a guy from 4 to 6, however, which improves his position. That kind of SMV improvement is doable, and it happens all the time, really.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 02:11 PM
3

Rollo is more of a leader than someone like Roosh, and certainly Forney. Rollo is also married and gives public talks -- not exactly hiding.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 01:12 PM
5

It will be one way among many. It already is. In my view, the real trend that is coming is an explosion of single motherhood among college educated women, because of the imbalance in education rates as between women and men. Some of these women will marry educationally down, as is already being done today (nurse to fireman, teacher to tradesman, etc.), some will marry a SAHD (if they can afford to keep one, which is a small percentage), and some will opt for single motherhood. Some of the last g…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 01:03 PM
2

Not sure what the situation is in Australia or the UK, but in the US marriage is still a status marker for people over a certain professional/educational paygrade. Get up to the doctor/lawyer/exec set and pretty much everyone is married.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 12:47 PM
2

But you'd better like that path because unless you marry someone extremely wealthy, you can forget about the path of being a housewife and being near your kids, despite the fact that "every single bone in your body shouts out that your job is to look after your child." Because very few of us can afford to live off one income today. That's right. Which is why, in the US, it's a kind of not-so-subtle status marker, as in "we can afford to have me stay home with the kids", meaning "my husband is to…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 12:45 PM
5

Just a witch, really. If you must marry, you really need to have discussions ahead of time about kids, roles, priorities and so on. Not foolproof, of course, because people change, but necessary all the same. I'm guessing that H1 and H2 knew somewhat what they were getting into -- if they didn't then they should have vetted her better. I'm not saying that her attitudes are completely uncommon -- to the contrary, they're very common among a certain set of women (highly educated SIWs). But most of…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 05:52 AM
0

Among the lawyers, total 75 of us or so, 50 are women. The total in the building are around 2000, and about 55% are women. The hiring practice is to get as many women as possible. So, while there are some areas of the company that are very male heavy (like, say, IT), there are others that have to "make up for that", so there are hiring preferences in favor of women. When we are doing new hire interviews and every resume I see is from a woman, it's fairly obvious (yes, I have asked, and yes there…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 05:38 AM
0

Eh, no. My work group is not 14-1 female because of automation. It's because of hiring practices, desires to have certain overall ratios by sex in the company, and so on. Nothing to do with automation (we're lawyers).
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 05:16 AM
-3

Feminism promotes women at the expense of men -- at the margins, that is how it works. Feminizing workplaces (and, yes, this is what has happened -- I have seen it with my own eyes over the last 25 years working in corporate America) has not helped men -- this was done to help women be more competitive with men, which, ipso facto, makes men less competitive with women. Personally I don't care if women want to do whatever they want to do, let them. The group I work with (15 people) is 14 women an…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 04:55 AM
2

Yep -- exactly.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 04:03 AM
13

It doesn't. Look at porn -- plenty of women with small boobs there.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 04:00 AM
2

Men don't benefit at all from feminism -- it takes away from men in order to make men and women more equal. That is not a benefit for men.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/15 03:58 AM
2

I agree. No point in debating about the word "primary" really. I do agree that men are exclusively looks oriented for casual sex, whereas women are merely primarily looks oriented for casual sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/15 11:43 PM
3

They do take more into consideration, but they are also still "primarily" looks oriented when it comes to casual sex. The more casual it is, the more looks oriented they become, but, yes, they do take other things into account as well, even in that setting -- but still looks are primary when it's all about the sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/15 11:24 PM
5

Couple of points I would have liked to have seen in your OP: addressing the impact of the different demand for sex-qua-sex on real and perceived incelibacy, and addressing the "can't get it up for her" issue for male incels in particular. I think that the demand issue skews incelibacy male, because men want sex, in and of itself, more than women do. There are still incel women, in terms of not being able to have sex with men they are attracted to (as I discuss in my larger comment to this post),…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/15 11:20 PM
3

Yes, I agree, but it isn't inaccurate to say that women are also primarily looks oriented, and pickier than men are (because they can be), when it comes to casual sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/15 11:16 PM
5

It's more effort for guys in the dating process itself, but women put in a ton of effort into being hot. The ones who put in the most effort look like they aren't putting in much effort as well --- it's a cultivated look, all the same.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/15 11:14 PM
4

I have even seen them claim that women care about looks far more than men, which is just bollocks. For casual sex, women do. Women are more picky than men are, looks wise, when it comes to casual sex. When it comes to relationships, it's quite different.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/15 11:02 PM
6

I agree with the basic point. Men and women alike have an "attraction floor" below which they will not fuck (at least not unless there is money involved, but let's leave hooking aside because that's a special case). That attraction floor is independent of their own level of attractiveness, not relative to it (it's a floor, after all). If guys are unattractive, they may very well not be attracted to their female attractiveness peers, and so these women "don't count", in their eyes, when it comes …
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/15 10:57 PM
2

This is simple -- I don't have any female friends and my fiancee doesn't have any male friends. Neither of us would like the other to do that, so we're on the same page there.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/15 10:40 PM
3

You're not going to get real debate here, because the blue part of it comes from a sub that is designed to make fun of reds. They're trolls, in other words, who run a parody/hate sub. You can't debate with people like that, at least not fruitfully. The only thing you can do is put out arguments and let the lurkers, who are the real audience here, make their own calls (and, if we are honest, most of those calls will be based on pre-existing bias as well -- it's just how most people are). TRP is n…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/15 03:21 PM
2

Marriage rates are dropping, actually, and it varies a huge amount by social class. I expect that marriage rates will continue to drop as the economic causes for low marriage rates among the working class and lower middle class continue to spread upward in the socio-economic ranks.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/15 03:12 PM
4

You're going to get the usual response that is based on the difference in worldview -- namely that there are only individual drives, and generalizing, even if its generally true, is bad, mkay?
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/15 03:11 PM
3

Samas for "going gay", right? I mean gay guys don't have the problems that straight guys do, so may as well go gay, right? 0/10 -- next time, try a serious question, ok?
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/15 03:02 PM
2

It's not easy, that's for certain. Some key traits, I think, would be future time orientation (which tends to place long term satisfaction over short term gratification), self discipline (as displayed in personal health, finances, romantic history and so on), and of course values, although the former are more important than the latter, really, because they really determine one's ability to follow the latter (provided the latter aren't pure libertarian self-satisfaction, of course).
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/15 02:03 AM
3

An example you mention refers to empathy--desire not to hurt SO--is that powerful enough to overcome the selfish lizard brain? Well, but that isn't necessarily going to tell you not to cheat. It's going to tell you (1) to be very discreet so as to ensure they do not learn of it and (2) once it is over never confess to it, regardless of how "guilty" you may feel, because that would "hurt them". I've encountered both of those in life, based on the justification of not wanting to "hurt the person I…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/15 01:53 AM
2

Yes, it was a reference to someone following a personal approach, which, in an individual case, may lead one to justify infidelity under any number of circumstances, and not just arising from hedonism.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/15 01:28 AM
3

If people have opportunity, then it comes down to morals (if any) and level of satisfaction/dissatisfaction. If someone has opportunity, but is generally satisfied, they are less likely to cheat, but more likely, marginally, to do so if they have morals than if they do not. A moral foundation would be the idea that regardless of what one may wish to do, certain things are out of bounds, and not done, for moral reasons. That may be based on religion or secular ethics. But the key is that one is n…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/15 01:03 AM
5

Opportunity, moral background, general level of satisfaction. Mix that up in a bowl, and you get some "likelihood of cheating" coefficient.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/15 12:47 AM
2

A truly good person does not do good for the positive feelings of being altruistic, either -- that is in itself a form of selfishness and narcissism, feeding one's vision about how "good" one is by virtue of the "good things" one has done. A truly good person does good things just because they are good, and attributes no greatness to themselves for having done them, and actively combats any positive feelings they have about themselves for having done them. Humility, in other words.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/15 11:11 PM
1

Not if those women are obvious golddiggers. Women identify golddiggers quite easily. Pre-selection works when the women doing the pre-selection are genuinely hot for the guy (or at least it appears that they are in a way that golddiggers are pretty obviously not).
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/15 09:25 PM
2

The future is never certain, but I agree it will be interesting to see how it plays out. If that trend does ensue, as I predict it will, it won't necessarily involve donors or IVF. It could be as simple as raising a child alone without the "Baby Daddy" because she doesn't want to marry the guy for various, and in some/many cases understandable, reasons.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/15 09:23 PM
2

It's bread and circuses. As long as there are enough of both to go around, it's sustainable. If that cracks, due to automation or otherwise, that won't be the only aspect of the current society that becomes unsustainable.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/15 07:53 PM
5

It will be more of the same, really, in terms of the trends we currently see, with things veering in some new directions as a result of that. The trends we see now will likely continue apace for the next ten years. Women will continue to outperform men in education, with the numbers matriculating /graduating from college nearing 65/75%, respectively. This will result in a musical chairs mating market among the college educated women, due to there being a lot more women than men with college degr…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/15 06:49 PM
3

From her perspective, which is one where men are pretty much not needed by women at all. The obvious deep crisis among black men is irrelevant, because they are not needed, and therefore not relevant from her perspective. It's interesting, though, because there are lots of black women who are unhappy with the situation, to say the least, unlike the attitude expressed here.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/15 06:29 PM
2

No such thing as the kind of gender inequality feminism claims (a huge, massive, all-encompassing social tilt against women which fundamentally disempowers them vis-a-vis men), not a kind of inverse inequality that runs to the detriment of men (because social and legal means have been erected to "undo" the kind of perceived tilt against women described in the prior parenthetical, and these tend to work against men by design, because the desire is to reach a level of perceived "equality" by boost…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/15 06:23 PM
2

Not much -- he can buy golddiggers or hookers with his money, but if that's all he's got going on, that's all he's going to get.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/15 06:17 PM
2

I would say that I have learned, or come to the conclusion, that the fundamental disagreement is not solvable, because it is grounded in rather deep-seated worldview/life approach differences that go well beyond red pill and blue pill sexual/relationship strategies. Blue pillers, in general, think it is wrong to engage in generalizations, regardless of their truth (although they often very much doubt their truth as well) because they see this as dehumanizing and demeaning to the individuality of…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/15 03:31 AM
1

Yes but you already knew that would be her answer. It's the same answer feminists have been saying for decades -- masculinity needs to be redefined to have more femininity in it, and men need to be made comfortable with that, and all will be well. Hasn't happened, and won't happen, because all that does is make men into second rate women.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/15 02:41 AM
7

The thing about incelibacy is that what it usually consists of is people not being attracted to the people whom they could lay. That's understandable, because there is a floor of attraction, both objectively and subjectively, and if you are below that floor yourself it doesn't mean you're going to find others who are below that floor, and whom you could possibly lay, attractive enough to bother. I think that's the situation a lot of incels find themselves in.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/15 02:03 AM
6

Probably skipping this one -- seems to new agey feminist for me. Probably will go see The Big Short this weekend instead.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/15 01:39 AM
1

And that's fair enough, too. It really depends on what people want from life. I don't advocate marriage for everyone, certainly, and especially not in this cultural climate, but I don't advocate staying away from it for everyone either. It is a dangerous thing for men in particular and has to be viewed that way, but really what one does about this depends on what you want out of life at the end of the day.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/15 10:07 PM
1

Depends on what you want out of life, really. But the best approach in life is this: don't be one of the average, mediocre masses. Rise above that, find a way to do it. Or, don't and just accept mediocrity as your fate in all areas of life. Everyone has a choice.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/15 09:59 PM
1

It's just normal. I mean most people in life are mediocre and lead mediocre lives. It's what's to be expected.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/15 09:05 PM
1

My understanding is it's the latter.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/15 08:57 PM
4

It's focusing on building all the elements of attraction -- physical, sartorial, social (lots of social skill building, networking), financial, interests and experiences. The beta bux doesn't do all of that because he's overly focused on only one element, the financial/career element. You avoid being a beta bux not by being poor or by not having a good situation career-wise or financially, but by building all of the other touchstones of heterosexual male attractiveness.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/15 05:00 PM
1

That's a good example of it in a different context. The context I'm more familiar with personally is the corporate one where the higher end female execs mostly do not have guys as husbands who are "below them" in achievement --you get to see the spouses at work-related social events over the years, and it's always very interesting to see. A few of them do, but they stand out because they are not common. The most common is that they are married to a guy who is similarly high powered, but not high…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/15 04:55 PM
1

It may be contrary to their stated ideals, but that's where the visceral/biological realities of attraction run counter to the "post-biological" aspects of contemporary ideologies. Attraction doesn't arise based on ideological criteria, of course, it's visceral, pre-rational. A sensible person then filters that through with reason, to make sure that their visceral attraction doesn't take them to a bad place (and many people fail at this, men and women alike). But the actual attraction, which in …
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/15 03:34 PM
2

What I will say is that the most dominant women at work are likely to be the least tolerant of unmasculine men. My experience as well. The HBIC types tend to have a harder time at love, if only because their need for dominance in a man is very high, and many of those guys don't want a HBIC as a wife. There are a few HBICs I have known who have SAHD (or semi-SAHD) husbands, but it's not very common, and I think that's because that kind of man doesn't do anything for most HBICs in terms of attract…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/15 04:58 AM
0

Haha well done +1.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/15 04:46 AM
4

This, coupled with the fact that there are soooo many women out there complaining that "there are no nice guys" and telling us over and over about how men treat them like shit, how they get raped, attacked, beaten up. One horror story after another, and yet, after all that, women still reject the "nice guy" because he's "boring" and not as cool as the "bad boy." That just doesn't make any sense to me. The way that it "makes sense" is that women do not literally want to be abused, but at the same…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/15 04:27 AM
3

Not easily, and not with attractive women. duh.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/15 03:24 AM
3

Well I've never been an incel, so that isn't the case for me. I do see that some men have more access to casual sex than others, however.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/15 03:20 AM
2

You have no obligation to be understanding of the problems of others, and neither do I. We are both free agents in that regard. I'm not defending him, and I didn't reply to you to defend him, but to react to something you had written.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/15 03:19 AM
3

You're not having sex with Chads, then. RP ideas like "AWALT" aren't categorical in the sense that literally every single woman has sex with Chads. But what we were discussing are the women who do date and have sex with guys who are "good for sex but nothing else" during their own most sexually attractive years, but then later, once they decide to settle down, marry men who "wouldn't be good for 'just sex', but are good in terms of a total package, even if the sex is not as good". If you don't f…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/15 03:15 AM
3

I'm not addressing what he was writing -- in my view, and in the view of the red pill, no man is entitled to anything when it comes to sex, and if you want casual sex you need to become a man that women want casual sex with. As we say, don't wish the game were easier, just make yourself better. Why should I be understanding? Go right ahead and refrain from being understanding, but others, like me, are also free to express our opinion about that.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/15 03:13 AM
6

It isn't, but your attitudes towards, and understanding of, that value is your responsibility, particularly when you are passing judgment on male attitudes and behaviors around sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/15 02:54 AM
6

It boils down to women not understanding the different value that men and women place on sex, and why that is (other than denigrating men for the value they place on sex, which is nothing other than cheap female sexism).
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/15 02:38 AM
4

Eh, no. The point is that the non-Chads are not good enough for "just sex", like Chad is. They have to bring other things to the table in order to get laid (in the context of a relationship with you) that Chad doesn't need to do. He gets the sex prize while bringing less, because he is more sexually attractive, in a pure sense for "only sex". So the non-Chads are less sexually attractive, because they are not the guys with whom women will have sex without them bringing anything else to the table…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/15 02:07 AM
4

It's a hate sub -- it was set up specifically to hate on another sub. It's a worthless, trashy, hate sub filled with trashy posters. I wouldn't worry for one second about being banned there -- it's like an honor, really.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/15 12:42 AM
8

If you're as you say, what is the problem? Surely an active, toned, successful and attractive woman like you would have no problem attracting men -- you're not lonely and living with cats, and you don't want children. So I don't see what the issue is. If you want to get married, it shouldn't be hard finding a man who is attracted to a woman who fits your description, and in a bigger city it shouldn't be hard to find one who only wants you and no kids. I'm not sure what you're asking. The pills a…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/15 09:55 PM
6

I had the RP ideas inside my head long before there was a TRP, so I don't really care about intra-reddit squabbles between subreddits and their denizens. My ideas are set, and have been for quite a few years, and encompass a worldview, a vision, a set of priorities, and a lens. It isn't changing.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/15 08:39 PM
4

Don't worry about it. Work on yourself, become more attractive. Get with women. If you want to settle down at some point, do a risk assessment at that time and a cost/benefit, and decide from a position of strength. Also, as a fisherman, do not listen to the advice coming from the fish (in this thread or elsewhere). Fish have a different agenda than a fisherman does, so don't listen to the fish. Improve yourself, become a better fisherman, and then decide for yourself what to do over the course …
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/15 08:34 PM
3

The sex drive is greatly influenced by testosterone, and men have more of it than women do, so that's why there is a male thirst for sex in itself that isn't matched in women. Why is it like that? A guess would be that we are like that because we do not bear children, and therefore it is better for our genes (in terms of likelihood of replication) for us to be up for sex more often, thereby maximizing chances of successful genetic replication. Put differently, in terms of the genetic replication…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/15 06:38 PM
6

You can always make yourself better. If you find, after doing that for quite some time, that you still cannot attract a woman to whom you are attracted (not a top hot woman, but a woman who meets your baseline attraction), then you can either reassess/retool your attraction parameters (some can do this more easily than others, that's true) and find a woman for you (it isn't that hard to get with an unattractive (in a conventional sense) woman if you can manage to be attracted to her). Barring th…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/15 06:18 PM
5

She's also young and lacks experience which can give perspective. This is the case with most of the younger female posters at PPD. The older female posters tend to be a bit different -- not necessarily agreeable, per se, but have perspectives that are informed by experience in a different way, especially when it comes to classic mistakes like assuming that the dynamic of married relationships is the same as the dynamic of other, even relatively longer term, relationships -- a classic mistake tha…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/15 06:04 PM
2

I agree with that.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/15 05:55 PM
2

There is hypocrisy, that's true. They believe that the ends justify the means because they believe that their view is more moral -- which means that we are less moral, and therefore, in some sense, evil, because of our views. Can't really have a conversation with an opponent who considers you as morally evil, because it's obvious that they will do anything they can to eradicate what they see as evil, and harmful to others. Again, this is why we go around and around and around. We will never agre…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/15 05:48 PM
2

If they are both attractive and both attracted to each other, then no. It may not be a consummated sexual relationship, but it will have aspects to it that are not platonic friendship.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/15 05:43 PM
4

Absolutely. In general, I have found that female secretaries don't like taking orders from women lawyers in general, even if they are not young and pretty. The smarter women lawyers learn this and "manage" the relationships with their secretaries in such a way that they don't feel subordinated. It's a minefield. I have had female lawyer colleagues complain and complain and complain endlessly to me over the years about how annoying it is for them to deal with female support staff in ways that rea…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/15 04:02 PM
6

This is what we were discussing in one of the other threads just yesterday. It's a massive difference in worldview, and it lies at the heart of the intense disagreement. Bloopers think it is wrong to engage in generalizations, regardless of their truth (although they doubt their truth as well) because they see this as dehumanizing and demeaning to the individuality of each person. RP guys see generalizations (if generally true) as being very useful rules of thumb to shape behavior, even if we re…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/15 03:47 PM
3

Yes, but only if both are not attracted at all to the other in a sexual way.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/15 02:13 PM
1

Well, that's good to know.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/15 01:57 PM
2

The Wrightington, Wigan and Leigh NHS foundation trust, which manages the hospital, has admitted to ‘one small mistake’ that led to Anna’s life-changing injuries. Is the NHS immune from lawsuits because it is a part of the state?
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/15 01:46 PM
2

Yes those are different things, but they both fall under the "AF/BB" or "lane changing" rubric. Example 2 is much less common than example 1, and I doubt anyone who subscribes to the red pill idea set would claim otherwise.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/15 01:41 PM
2

Yeah I wasn't thinking so much about explicit genderbenders like crossdressers or fetishists, but was thinking more along the lines of the typical equalist marriage where the beta bux is dominated by the wife -- it's kind of a feminine male role he has in that scenario, and it isn't very uncommon. These guys do get married, as red pill theory suggests. What happens after then varies -- sometimes it's "cuck and chuck", sometimes it's just a lackluster low-sex marriage (maybe she just has a low dr…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/15 01:37 PM
2

Ehm, not sure how old you are. I'm 48. The sex drive doesn't go away in your 40s and 50s. It isn't raging the way it was at 21, but it isn't the case that as a man are 52 and tired of life, you don't want sex, you don't want to dance and all that, you just want a calm life ... It doesn't work that way. The sex part is still a critical part of the relationship, even in a mature relationship, even when you are in your 40s, 50s, 60s. It's not "like a roommate thing". When it becomes like a roommate…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/15 01:29 PM
2

Not really, no. When I turned up in college back in the early 1980s I was a "high school liberal". I was disabused of that within a year of being at college, and seeing the absolutely nutty leftism that prevailed there, and pretty much never looked back. If anything, my views over the next few decades only hardened and in the same direction. The red pill is a new brand, but the ideas aren't new, and neither is the critique of feminism, which has been spot-on, from my perspective, for three decad…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/15 01:12 PM
2

Well if you define it as dozens and dozens of partners, the number will be much smaller, sure. But that isn't the core idea. The core idea is that a substantial number of women date/screw fun/hot guys who are not suitable for marriage when they are younger and just want to have fun, but then marry a more sensible guy when they are ready to marry, but who was not the king pf fun/hot guy they would have dated when they were dating/screwing "just for fun". When you use that lens, the percentage imp…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/15 01:04 PM
2

Not if not anonymous. Samizdat has a reason for being samizdat after all.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/15 04:13 AM
11

I've never known the race of an interviewee prior to an interview. I know their sex, assuming that this matches the gender identity that they present in their resume. I don't think you can separate out the personal from the hiring process, and at least in my field (law), the interview is not the last, "confirming" step, even when we are hiring secretaries. It's the first step. If other types of positions base hiring decisions primarily on remotely-done skill tests, I suppose what you propose cou…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/15 02:36 AM
10

Overall it seems like you know absolutely nothing about TRP and disagree with its fundamental truth: that men and women are different. You see everyone as an individual special snowflake, ignoring useful trends and generalities. This is the fundamental disagreement. It is a matter of worldview, which is why disagreements about it create such hatred. It's not a solvable disagreement.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/15 02:07 AM
14

One of the most nonsensical things I have ever read from a blooper, and, to be honest, given the general level of wish thinking and similar nonsense spewing from the blue cesspool, that's saying quite a lot. Anonymous hiring doesn't work at all. You absolutely cannot judge the fit of a person for a position on any work team without meeting them. You will NOT make good hires using an anonymous system. You are not hiring a resume or a CV, you are hiring a person, ultimately, and in order to do tha…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/15 02:05 AM
3

Yep. Hillary had a thing with Huma Abedin, too, for a while. That cooled off after the press started nosing around during the 2008 primary campaign, but I'd be surprised if Hillary doesn't have another attractive young(er) woman around today on a more discreet basis. The arrangement with Bill isn't sexual -- it's professional and business and mentoring/advising all rolled in together, and it appears to be complex, but the relationship has been open since at least the aftermath of Lewinsky.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/15 01:40 AM
2

Yes, but this doesn't surprise me. I was red pill long, long before I came across TRP. To me, TRP is kind of like very reddit-ish, because reddit tends to have a LOT of radical echo-chamber sub-reddits -- it seems to be something facilitated by reddit, or perhaps innate in the broader culture of reddit. So I don't care that much about TRP specifically -- it's the broader red pill that was always my identification anyway.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/15 01:22 AM
6

To be respected a man must make the transition from ordinary into extraordinary. This is right, which is why TRP is all about being extraordinary, and avoiding average like the plague. Average is over -- not just when it comes to relations between the sexes, but when it comes to everything, ranging from economics to career to living to physical shape to everything else. Average is dead. Men need to be well above average, really.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/15 10:21 PM
16

No solution offered in your analysis, which is okay, I think, because there really isn't a "global solution" to this problem. Egalitarianism, suggested in some of the other comments here, is not a solution because the underlying problem is a lack of male value relative to women -- that value gap is not decreased by men becoming more feminine and egalitarian. That value gap is real and isn't fixable by egalitarianism because a man in an equalist relationship with a woman still doesn't bring suffi…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/15 01:46 PM
1

Those kinds of things exist here as well like this one. No longer single-sex, but every bit as elite (remember, feminism was an elite movement in the US as well).
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/15 12:58 AM
3

Colleges in the US have always had a dual purpose -- education is a part of it, and ticketing into a social class is another one. As universities have become more open (and have student bodies that are, in general, less elite than they were before WW2), the fraternities and sororities took on a kind of role of creating a more elite bastion within an institution that, overall, became less elite. There is a huge number of universities and colleges in the US. Not all of them serve to cement the exi…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/15 12:36 AM
1

That's true, but why don't American football clubs take players at 18 and train them as is the case in our football? Part of the reason is history. American football was invented by colleges -- the first football game was between Princeton and Rutgers. The pro game followed quite a bit later, and the college game was already well-established. Another reason is that minor league teams cost money, and there is already an established minor league system, de facto, in the college system. A third rea…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/15 12:28 AM
1

No worries for me -- let people do what they want to improve their SMV.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/15 12:20 AM
1

Of course, exclusivity is the point. That's why they have access to the best college social scene as well. Life isn't fair, and certainly no-one is entitled to access to the top social scene just because they want to be there.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/15 12:13 AM
1

I find it staggering, for example, that college football is so big, and draws such incredible crowds. The idea that you would have two schools playing a game against each other and it's taken seriously over here is just extremely odd. This is because it is the only feeder system for professional football in the US. Football here does not have a "minor league" system like baseball or hockey do (or like the soccer clubs in Europe do) -- if you want to play pro football you must play for a college …
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/15 12:06 AM
6

TRP notices and talks about pretty women. They adore them but are frustrated with them so devise strategies to better deal with them without getting blinded by the hot into worshipping them. The thing is most men simply do not see ugly women. As an ugly woman I am fine with that but i don't like being included in these descriptions of AWALT. This is fair enough. It's probably more like "All Relevant Women Are Like That", where it's also understood that "all" means "enough for it to make sense as…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/15 02:09 PM
1

I don't think it's a wheel or pendulum, but a paradigm shift based on changes in the economy which are themselves due to technological changes. Men are simply less valuable than they were in the past, and that won't change unless the broader economic system collapses and so on. Because of that, men are becoming the new underclass, the new second sex. That's masked a bit by the fact that top positions still skew male for a variety of reasons, but when you get below that women are massively, massi…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/15 01:15 PM
13

The average has to be the same -- which means that on the surveys, someone is lying (evidence points that women are generally understating, based on the differential they report depending on the circumstances of the survey and the likelihood of lying being detected). The median figure, however, can be differential as between the sexes, but really it's likely more an issue of context. Sexual opportunities tend to vary quite a bit between men and women in different contexts (HS vs college vs after…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/15 12:58 PM
10

One of the "traditional" reasons for this is that guys, even if they are not very interested in a relationship, will accept the date in the interest of possibly having sex -- so the woman can't really judge how interested the man really is when she makes the move, because he may just be taking a chance at sexual availability more than anything else. That's not completely irrational, in my view. Of course, if the woman just wants sex herself, that's not an issue, and IMO, you do see women approac…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/15 03:15 AM
2

No, because sexual function becomes an issue for me if I am not attracted to the woman. Doesn't work.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/15 02:48 AM
2

The core idea is that women have a hard time loving men that they do not highly respect, whereas men seem to struggle less with this. So a man should be sure that he earns and maintains the respect of his GF, wife, etc.., because if she loses that, she will have a hard time not losing her love for the man. In other words, if you focus on maintaining her respect, you have a much better chance of not losing her love. Men generally don't work that way in that they do not need to have a huge respect…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/15 02:45 AM
9

The core point of this (don't judge marriage by the perspective of those who failed at it) is sound. It's a data point, and I think a relevant one, but as with any other data point which is personal testimony-based, you have to also judge the speaker and assess the speaker as a part of evaluating the usefulness of the testimony. As a lawyer, this is intuitive for me, but I can see how it can be less intuitive for others.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/15 01:36 AM
2

I should be the last person to say this because absolutely everyone in my family got divorced! Unfortunately that increases your risk profile for divorce, as you probably know.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/15 01:34 AM
4

I think it's because cohabitation is like a trial marriage without the same degree of commitment, and people become used to that. They then get married as the next logical step, but you can't really change the degree of commitment like switching on a light fixture (the pattern/way/dynamic of the relationship is already "set" and a part of that is a lower commitment than in marriage), and what can happen is that the de facto level of commitment remains more or less the same as it was when they we…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/15 01:26 AM
1

It's not really red pill or blue pill, but it's a rising trend, on the "soft" side of things (that is, not "hard" polygamy, but "monogamish" LTRs and marriages).
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/15 10:16 PM
1

Yeah I guess you've never heard of butches and femmes, have you?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/15 07:52 PM
2

I don't think this is the right way to go for men. Reliance on social awareness of issues will always tilt substantially female for easy to see reasons -- for both men and women alike. The path for men is both individual (get your shit together) and small group collective (run with other guys who have their shit together as a support system). Beyond that it's fairly worthless -- society is never going to be arranged to worry that much about so-called "men's issues". Men shouldn't worry about tha…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/15 04:01 PM
6

As a paradigm it's common -- people party when they are young and get serious when they are a bit older, and for women that means different kinds of men at those two different times. I think it isn't the case that all marriages involving a BB pairing involve the guy getting cucked, but the risk increases because of the greater likelihood of sexual boredom/unattraction developing in a woman who has a long history of AFs in her younger 20s before changing lanes to marry a BB (i.e., a guy she would…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/15 01:29 PM
2

In conclusion, even in the simplest dating market, we do not have assortative mating, but rather a hard floor, whereas a portion of people below a certain SMV simply will not pair. This will occur simply due to probability and search costs, and it will occur primarily in the pool of lower SMV people. Yes, there is an absolute floor on attraction below which pairing off becomes much less interesting to people. The issue is rather obvious if you think about it: people, regardless of their own SMV,…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/15 01:15 PM
8

Eh, herbivores are also opting out from the career rat race in Japan. They're basically MGTOWs, opting out of women and career rat race. Not sarariman working themselves to death.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/15 03:04 AM
0

You're just saying that because you're wallowing in your transphobic, heteronormative, cis-gendered pool of absolute, invincible privilege.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/12/15 06:46 PM
1

I don't agree with that, but it's obviously your call to make.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/12/15 04:08 PM
4

Not a feminist conspiracy, but a feminist breakthrough. Just as "the first woman to do X", where "X" was always previously done by men, is a feminist breakthrough.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/12/15 03:14 PM
2

Oh I wasn't saying that gender politics "has a hand" in this, in the sense of determining what happened here per se, but merely saying that it's quite fair to view it from that perspective, given how so many other things are viewed from that perspective in society in general.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/12/15 03:09 PM
4

Not really. He tried to profit on what already existed and posted extreme things at that site to get eyeballs and cash from it. The manosphere predated Forney's site, and has continued long after its demise as well. It really grew up around Roissy in DC in the later noughts, long before Forney even had a site.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/15 11:04 PM
7

I think this would be like being a gay man, except you'd be having sex with women.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/12/15 07:35 PM
2

Yes it really did change tremendously. I think what changed was the "typical" behavior. In my mother's day, what is now typical behavior was engaged in by people on the sexual margins -- the prototypical "sluts" or "loose women" -- they existed, but they existed on the margins. The typical young woman didn't behave that way. The change is that what was marginal is now typical, and what was typical is now marginal -- it's all on its head compared to what they grew up with (and what they therefore…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/12/15 03:28 PM
10

At work I identify as just an ordinary guy who nods right along with all the SJW stuff, the Trump hate, the Republican hate, the hating on Christians, the "you go gurl!" nonsense, the "A Real man would...." bullshit clogging up my Facebook feeds. This goes without saying, I think, for almost all reds. When you're engaging in Thoughtcrime, you have to be careful, especially if there are people depending on you economically.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/12/15 03:24 PM
2

It was indeed a huge change that blindsided them. I think for my own mother, for example, she can't understand what would possess a woman who isn't a prostitute to have FWBs or Tinder hookups or what have you. Doesn't compute to her in terms of motives, and that's entirely due to the sexual revolution.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/12/15 02:40 PM
6

Same for mine, although even more pronounced because they were likely older than yours. No way to even wrap their heads around today's market -- it's like humans became a different species in 60 years time.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/12/15 01:30 PM
8

I found my fiancee in the manosphere, and she is fairly naturally a RPW type, without being formally a RPW. She's well aware of the theories and so on, but we don't spend a lot of time discussing them -- too busy with other things. She isn't off-put by any of it, so there isn't anything to hide. I wouldn't be with someone who had fundamentally different values, anyway, certainly not at my age, so it wouldn't really factor in for me.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/12/15 12:55 PM
5

Sure they dominate HR, but they also are about half of finance, marketing, sales and legal -- not just low level. I've worked with dozens of high level female finance execs over the past 25 years. Where women don't predominate is the top of the leadership, because of the hours. They can easily become a regional director of finance or accounting policy and work 9-6 in some corporate office park, just like the HR gals do. Corporations love this. Why? Because the women are easier to deal with -- mo…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/12/15 04:58 PM
7

Most of business isn't STEM positions. Women are mostly working not for the government, but in finance, marketing, HR, legal and so on. Loads of women in these positions in the private sector in almost all industries, most of which are not STEM.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/12/15 04:07 PM
6

It's culture more than government. There are countries that have "big government" but very traditional cultures (see India, Asia in general). In the West it's also about culture. If you just reduce the size/interference of the government, women are not going to be barefoot and in the kitchen tomorrow, because they want their own money, which gives them sexual freedom, and the people who own businesses also want them to work for them, both so that they can keep wages down and create more consumer…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/12/15 03:50 PM
3

Not really the result of, but certainly aided and abetted by. Feminism, or its equivalent, tends to arise in conditions of high prosperity (seen in historically relative terms), as a luxury afforded by such prosperity. That's when it came about in the recent West. Similar kinds of things (not feminism per se, but more rights for (mostly wealthy and elite) women relative to what had come before) also came about in late-stage Rome and Babylon, at the height of their wealth and power and prior to t…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/12/15 02:30 PM
4

Yes I think it will become more widespread through all demographics. It's another step in the inexorable march towards maximum personal autonomy, I think. I don't know whether it will be the norm, per se, but it will be about as common as coupled parenting in the not so distant future. It makes sense, in tandem with other social trends.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/12/15 01:41 PM
3

Then you need a different strategy, and with different women.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/12/15 01:11 PM
6

That's because, as a percentage of the total number of single mothers, it's a sliver.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/12/15 12:53 PM
2

Fuck and chuck might be the best approach in the short term. Until you're tired of it. I wouldn't recommend settling down until well into the 30s in this day and age. No point.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/12/15 04:16 AM
3

On the margins that could happen, I think. I'd think, though, that more would go the in vitro soloist route. Some of the LUGs may regress, but otherwise I'd expect more soloists.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/12/15 03:05 AM
11

Going to be lots more educated women going it alone in the decades ahead. Some percentage will acquire boytoys and have fun with them, some other percentage will acquire SAHDs. But a significant portion of the musical chairs losers will go it alone, with or without kids. We can expect a series of articles in The Atlantic and the Huffington Post about how being an older, highly educated single mother is the new married for women, and how it's like totally fucking awesome and stuff.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/12/15 12:28 AM
3

Not in divorce it isn't. In fact, in the US, it's standard legal advice to a woman who wants to divorce, because it gives her a big legal advantage in the proceedings from the get-go.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/12/15 12:20 AM
1

Sure there are arguments and counters -- just laying the argument out there. Basically when it comes to this stuff, most people are about getting theirs and not worrying about much else, and I can't criticize that, really. I don't care if people don't want to have children -- doesn't bother me.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/15 10:59 PM
2

When they get older they will be supported by the taxes from people that other people took the time, energy and effort to raise (well or badly as the case may be). That isn't a justification for "rage", of course -- people will do what they want to do. But there is a definite freeloading element that comes with old age when you have no children of your own, and for an extended period. It's true that homeowners pay for schools through property taxes, and some of them complain about that, too. Chi…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/15 10:41 PM
-2

And? OK, so they looked at wiring, but they said themselves that they didn't look at function, how different areas play out in behavior and so on or that there aren't still significant differences in effect based on brains. What they are saying is "hey, the male brain is not a fundamentally different organ than the female brain is" -- so? I don't see the relevance for AWALT vs NAWALT.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/15 10:22 PM
-2

It's not relevant because there are numerous studies that discuss functional differences between the brain, how the hemispheres are wired, different areas firing in men and women in response to similar stimuli and so on.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/15 10:14 PM
3

"White race"? There is no white race. The whole concept of race was made up by fair-skinned humans in order to oppress darker skinned humans. There is no such thing as race.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/15 10:03 PM
1

I agree it's a more general trend. It's also true that it's very hard to get a firm grasp on what the behaviors actually are, because people lie (upward and downward) rampantly when it comes to sexual behaviors for any number of reasons. We'd need to put cameras on people's heads that could not be turned off or tampered with in order to get a proper study, and that would not pass an ethics panel, so we're left with self-reporting with all of the problems that has.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/15 09:47 PM
2

If you google it you can find some articles about how the cheat gap is closing. It isn't equal (and like I said we shouldn't expect that -- if it is ever equal or women are cheating more, we probably have a huge problem with widespread testosterone deficits in the men, I'd expect), but it's closer than it's ever been.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/15 09:29 PM
5

And Martin isn't Kevin Federline, either -- he's the lead singer in a popular band and quite wealthy in his own right, not a mere stage dancer like Federline was.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/15 09:24 PM
2

In TRP this is characterised as the woman settling for a beta, but it's not that simple. The more subtle RP advocates, like Rollo, would say that women are attracted to alphas and betas genuinely, and not just to the latter in a mercenary sense, but also differently. If they find both in one guy, it's the jackpot, but that guy is rare, so they do either "settle" or "evolve" or "change" in a way that emphasizes their attraction to betas at some stage, which is what is described as "lane changing"…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/15 09:10 PM
1

Likely all factors, yes. I also agree it isn't due to superior character, per se -- but due to the factors that tend to see these people have superior life outcomes across the board (wealth, health, marriage), regardless of their character.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/15 06:08 PM
2

All of the above. Stars and celebrities in general have a dating/mating market that has special characteristics and isn't really translatable to the broader market.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/15 05:56 PM
2

It varies, and has become a bit more common, but my sense from my own personal experience with this is that there is a not insubstantial percentage of women who are 50+ who are not interested in 50+ men, but will date men who are 40 or younger (or at least 45 or younger). The reasons given are "men my age are too old, they are not interesting, they don't do enough, I want to be more active, I don't want to take care of a man" and so on. So it's a thing today. Now, there aren't that many who succ…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/15 05:52 PM
2

True -- the key with her, though, is that she could also get commitment more easily from an attractive guy because of her status/money/fame/persona. The woman she is parodying who works as a secretary in accounting down on 7? Not really.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/15 05:42 PM
2

It's true that they have options -- but they often don't like what their options are compared to what they were when they were in their 20s. That's really what "the wall" is about -- it isn't that women have no options at all, it's that their options are different and less interesting to them. Again, because the average guy is a schlub, even those poorer (relative to her 20s) options are probably better than an average schlub guy's options at any point. That's why it's key not to be an average g…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/15 05:40 PM
1

No, because this seen as a matter of redistribution of power -- that is, if boys are disadvantaged by the current system, that's fine because men are still in power, and so we should not worry about boys being disadvantaged at all until the power at the top of society is balanced or in the hands of women. Then maybe we'll take a look at it, or maybe we'll just decide that this is the way it's supposed to be -- women as the brains running things and men as the strong boytoys who lift things. The …
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/15 05:36 PM
2

In the US at least, conviction of a crime requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt. That's well above a mere accusation. Anyone can accuse anyone else of anything at any time. In order to be convicted, the accusation must pass that high standard of proof beyond a reasonable doubt -- for rape as with any other crime. That is why there are rape kits. That is why women are encouraged (as are victims of all serious crimes) to come to the police promptly so as to preserve evidence of the crime. That …
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/15 05:31 PM
29

Let them think they're beautiful. I don't care what they think about themselves. However, everyone gets a dose of reality when they enter the market, because the market is about what other people think of you, not what you think of yourself. So, if you want to succeed in the market, you need to care about what others think, whether you are male or female, or accept sub-optimal outcomes (to say the least) in the marketplace.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/15 05:23 PM
1

Well, that can happen, but statistically the upper middle has the highest marriage rates and the lowest divorce rates, so overall it's generally true.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/15 05:20 PM
2

I know of a few. One of them is a total playboy -- lives in the OC, was briefly married (less than two years) in her early 30s, is now in his mid-40s and is with a carousel of women in their early 30s. He's a banker, and he's jacked physically as well as being good looking otherwise, and he's charismatic. He has parlayed that into being with younger women since he divorced and is living the life of Riley in Southern California. Another one is a guy who didn't marry until he was around 43-45 (to …
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/15 05:19 PM
4

Yeah. Her entire schtick is making fun of white trash women -- that's her whole act. So it's often hard to separate the act from the actual person, and I suspect that there has also been some "bleed-through" between act and person as well.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/15 05:14 PM
2

Not really, no. Witness the complaints hiding in plain sight everywhere on the internet from women over 40 saying that men their age are so superficial and only want younger women and so on. That would not be the case if women at that age didn't feel the pinch of competition from younger women. Not at all. Of course, the average guy at 45 is a beta schlub who has no sexual market power at all. An average woman at that age has more sexual market power than an average male 45 yo schlub -- no quest…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/15 04:56 PM
3

I've worked around very, very highly educated, high earning men and women my entire career for the last 25 years and I have met very few "power couples". Some exist, but they are the exception. Most cap out at some level due to being equalist, or have one person moving beyond the cap with the other being supportive. And in any case it has to do with what each person wants. Some people want to lead, others want to have an endless discussion/negotiation and so on. It varies.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/15 09:55 PM
3

Just a mismatch. Naturally dominant women clash with guys like us -- I know because my ex-wife was one.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/15 07:32 PM
1

I don't bother with activism per se on either side. I do give money to charities, but not to any that are in any way aligned to feminism (most of my charitable giving goes to Eastern Orthodox Christian missions and related things) or MRAs in any way.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/15 04:54 PM
1

That's because she didn't want to keep up. I've seen the same happen with the sexes reversed. An ironclad rule of any sexual relationship is that if the person you are with becomes more attractive than they were when you got together, you'd best also become more attractive in order to avoid problems you'd rather not deal with (running from what you've described to the other person outright leaving to upgrade). You're not entitled to the person remaining only as attractive as they were when you m…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/15 04:36 PM
2

She's talking complementary, not only compatible -- as in different personalities that have different strengths, rather than people with similar personalities who are "compatible".
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/15 03:46 PM
2

Getting ready for church, attending church, socializing with church members consumes day until around 1pm. Brunch thereafter until around 3pm. After that, movie or relax at home, or prep food for the week together or watch football or something like that.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/15 03:44 PM
1

Yes I would -- incompatible values, and a month or two is nothing major in any case.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/15 01:49 PM
2

Most people who consistently have failed relationships are people who are quite flawed, have very little perspective on themselves, and therefore continue to make the same, or similar, mistakes again and again and again. The typical loser human being, in other words, which is standard for the species. In previous eras, the cultural and social mores covered this over to some extent (there were likely just as many failed relationships, but breakup/divorce was not permitted, so it was covered over)…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/15 01:43 PM
2

Someone is bored today I guess.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/11/15 06:03 PM
8

It's more of a capitalist oligarchy. The vast majority of men and women alike are cogs in the wheel, at best. Men have more power at the top, women have more power in the middle and bottom. Patriarchy theorists would say that the fact that men have more power at the top indicates its a patriarchal system, but that's a bit too simplistic, because the reasons women are underrepresented at the top are complex. In any case, evening the "score" at the top, when combined with women having more power i…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/11/15 03:21 PM
0

Each woman has whatever standards she wants to have in light of what her own life goals are. If, unmarried at 45, she still wants only the very, very best in men (almost all of whom will be married to other women by that point), that's fine and not a problem as long as she is fine with not getting married to anyone other than the very, very best, and accepting that this lowers her chances of getting married due to the numbers game. A woman like that knows what she wants, and also happily accepts…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/11/15 02:59 PM
2

Don't discuss TRP with women.
/r/TheRedPill25/11/15 02:07 PM
2

Bigger cities offer a better numbers game, but pay attention to the ratios. The east coast cities tend to have larger numbers of women and lower numbers of men, while the west coast cities are generally the reverse (too many guys, much more competitive). Also know what fits who you are. Different personality types fit Manhattan than Miami. Know your strengths and choose accordingly.
/r/TheRedPill25/11/15 01:56 PM
2

There really isn't a point, in my opinion, unless there are small children in the mix. As a man, it's way, way, way too risky financially to have a wife who does not work outside the home for a nice amount of money, because the alimony risk shoots sky high if you divorce. Much better to have a wife who earns about what you do, so that you don't have to pay alimony if the marriage hits the wall at some point.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/11/15 08:04 PM
1

Money -- the real legitimate reason any of us work. A smart hooker who has her act together can make a crapton of money -- equivalent to a lawyer or banker, quite easily. Some women who are promiscuous by nature realize that they can make a ton of money instead of just giving it for free, and these are the ones who cash in and retire in their late 30s after having socked a ton of money away. To get there, she needs to be very hot (lots of maintenance work) and very smart and also not have an iss…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/11/15 02:47 PM
1

Not really. On the margins, sure, but overall there is a good, if rough, consensus on SMV in the market, with the consensus "higher" SMV men and women being in much stronger demand than the lessers.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/11/15 02:29 PM
2

There are cultural differences, I think. Germany is somewhat less culturally divided on feminism than the US is, and politically as well (look at the very distinct difference in voting patterns between American men and women -- not replicated in Germany).
/r/PurplePillDebate20/11/15 05:54 PM
3

Just to clarify for English-speaking readers: "Gymnasium" in Germany means the most academically elite branch of the high school system. It doesn't mean "gym", in English terms.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/11/15 04:15 PM
2

Yeah. Almost every American high school has a football team, and on that football team is at least one, and typically several, Chads.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/11/15 02:59 PM
1

Does Chad get the hottest girls in Europe? He does in the US.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/11/15 02:58 PM
2

Nice strawman. TRP isn't Islam or ISIS. Try again.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/11/15 03:44 AM
2

In part it's that, but I wouldn't say everyone is kickass. It's more that we expect more, even if the "more" is only attainable by a few people. It's not just in dating/mating. It's just that the benefits of life, the "good life", are disproportionately accruing to the top of the pyramid in all areas of life, today to a much, much greater degree than in even the recent past. Average worked ok in 1950 -- in mating and in economics. It doesn't work in 2015 -- average is getting hollowed out and tr…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/11/15 04:21 PM
7

Average is over. Not just in dating/mating, but everywhere else in life. Average doesn't cut it, across the board -- you need to be well above average to have an even satisfactory life in the current context, in any number of areas.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/11/15 03:21 PM
2

There may be some outliers who are sexually aroused by intelligence, but in general most people are not. That doesn't mean it isn't an attractive quality in a person -- it can be, depending on who you are yourself. But "sexually attracted" means arousing, and I don't think there are that many men, at least, who get hard because of a woman's intellect.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/11/15 02:24 PM
4

Sluts are not a problem -- I would never marry one/LTR one, but that's my choice, not a problem for me or for the sluts in question.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 08:03 PM
4

As I said here: It's really a game of chicken. It's a power play between the man and the woman in that case. If a man is vetting a woman for being a wife, he often will also be ok with "waiting", because he is testing for promiscuity, to some extent. Of course, that only works if the history matches the present, more or less -- it doesn't work if she has a huge N count but now wants him to wait. So for the strategy to work, the man has to be kept in the dark about that, precisely because she kno…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 07:29 PM
6

Well, I just think that in this specific area there is a lot of automatic programming for both sexes. It makes sense, since it is core/propagation programming we're talking about here.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 07:28 PM
13

I'd say it's more ingrained than cold blooded calculus. It's just very ingrained to hide it if it is a big number. I think for most women it's automatic and reflexive rather than cold-blooded, but, yes, it is done in their own self-interest.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 07:22 PM
15

There's no advantage for a woman to be honest about her N in almost all situations outside the most outlierish ones (swinger communities, poly communities, etc.). So they lie about it. It's not irrational -- they are just doing what is in their interests.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 07:15 PM
2

It's really a game of chicken. It's a power play between the man and the woman in that case. If a man is vetting a woman for being a wife, he often will also be ok with "waiting", because he is testing for promiscuity, to some extent. Of course, that only works if the history matches the present, more or less -- it doesn't work if she has a huge N count but now wants him to wait. So for the strategy to work, the man has to be kept in the dark about that, precisely because she knows he's using it…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 07:13 PM
2

No -- I'm saying the basis is biological (which, because it relates to attraction is also psychological), and it applies throughout all time to all cultures precisely because it is psycho-biological. If the "why" is "because she needs support during pregnancy and not other evo-psych bullshit", then that "why" doesn't apply tyoday -- so it cannot explain why women are behaving hypergamously still today.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 05:37 PM
2

But that need no longer applies -- therefore women should no longer be hypergamous -- see /u/tasha_998 's comment in this thread. If it's just based on need for provision during pregnancy, that clearly doesn't apply any longer (either support themselves, or with state aid), so women should no longer be behaving hypergamously, and all of what Devlin is saying is completely wrong.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 05:29 PM
1

But again, the issue of the "why" arises. Why are women hypergamous?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 04:06 PM
4

Look, this isn't complex. Women want to preserve the sex manipulation card in LTRs more than they do in STRs because in STRs they are all about the sex, so they just have sex, whereas in LTRs, sex is a valuable chit on the table in ways that it isn't in an STR which by its nature revolves more fully around the sex from day one.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 04:03 PM
6

Well, the point is that women will give sex more easily to Chad because "she has lower standards for that kind of short term thing", whereas for Bill, who is "relationship material", she has "higher standards", meaning "more hoops to jump through before sex than Chad had" ... because she respects him more than Chad, right?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 04:03 PM
1

It's basically a matter of probability. The probability is lower (it's still nonzero, but lower) among religious women who are actually very devout, come from very devout families (including extended families) and live in a way that is quite countercultural in general in their lives prior to meeting you -- and all of that can be easily vetted. The further you get away from that scenario (and admittedly, that's a tiny pool of women in our culture), the more the probability begins to align with th…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 03:51 PM
1

But is there an explanation for why it is the case other than evo psych? If your answer is "evo psych is right on this one, due to overwhelming evidence, but not on other things", that's fine -- just trying to understand your view on that.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 03:45 PM
2

Exactly how it went down in my case, to a tee.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 03:32 PM
1

How do you explain hypergamy without some reference to something that looks a lot like evo psych?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 03:30 PM
1

Well, but that's the case in a lot of the coastal cities. Women in Manhattan are not "typical women". Women in DC are not "typical women". Many of us live in places like this, and these are the kinds of women we are dealing with.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/11/15 04:52 PM
2

It was used not without irony, which you obviously missed. You can't make the level of job we're discussing more family-friendly -- that's the point. The jobs are inherently consuming. They are only family-friendly if one has a supportive spouse (of either sex, and men have more of these than women do, typically by choice). The shareholders don't want the CEO and CFO having balanced lives, they want them working too hard to have balanced lives so that the company benefits (and by and large the p…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/11/15 08:59 PM
3

Who is in charge of most political systems, boardrooms etc? This has to do with women's preferences and choices, as those collide with the demands of these positions, more than anything else. Boardrooms, politicians, CEOs -- these are life-consuming positions. They consume you. I know because I have worked around CEOs and board member types most of my professional career. These are not people with "balanced lives", because the position demands more than that balance permits. These positions attr…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/15 01:16 AM
5

Who cares about that stuff anyway? It's all out of any individual's control. Speculation is just that -- speculation. Regardless of how you think the future will generally be, your task in life is to make the life you want for yourself for as long as conditions permit that, and then when they don't, adapt to the new conditions. Speculation is fun, but it's all about things outside our control. It's thoroughly un-red pill, anti-red pill, to get oneself tied up into knots about speculation and thi…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/15 11:40 PM
1

Not very relevant, really. It is what it is, and you deal with the hand you're dealt. The good news is that so few men are attractive, that if you can manage improving yourself and making yourself attractive, you can cash and cash and cash chips for a long, long time. You just don't want to be average, but, again, that's just dealing with the hand you're dealt. Be well above average and cash in.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/10/15 07:37 PM
1

Again, the difference between "gay tops" (who like to have sex with gay bottoms regardless of context, and like kissing them and so on), on the one hand, and the guys who are using them as holes of convenience on the other.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/10/15 02:36 PM
1

There's a difference between guys who have a basically heterosexual orientation using a "hole of convenience" in a constrained setting, like a prison, navy at sea, at so on, on the one hand, and the guys who like sucking cock and getting fucked in the ass, on the other hand. These are two different sets of guys. The first set is basically straight (I'm not talking here about gay guys who are tops, but about the basically straight guys who will top gay bottoms in certain contexts), but will use t…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/10/15 01:17 PM
2

Likely, I agree.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/10/15 09:32 PM
1

Not past it, no, but nothing like Hannah Davis. Not even in the same ballpark. Older women can be very hot, in their own cohort. There is a woman in my office who is 48 and has the body of a 30 year old. She is objectively hot, yet you can tell her age on her face. So if a 30 year old with the same body came along, she would still be prettier than the 48 year old due to a younger face. It's just how it is. The 48 year old is hot, but not as hot as an equally well-maintained 30 year old -- but of…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/10/15 07:39 PM
2

justbeyourselfnovemberyouloserincels That works for me.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/10/15 07:36 PM
1

Jealousy kills poly relationships. Everyone on reddit is poly, it seems -- all poly, bi, LGBTQ or wish they were. So jealousy is bad. That's reddit.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/10/15 07:35 PM
5

It's just another battle in the war. It's a war to the death of worldviews. We will see which one wins.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/10/15 07:31 PM
2

No, but it correlates with divorce fairly highly.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/10/15 12:46 PM
1

If you want get married, you should fulfill the following criteria to maximize your chances of success: Both you and partner are upper-middle class and financially doing very well. Both you and partner come from intact families of origin, where parents have never divorced, and divorce, if present in the extended family, is very rare. Both you and partner are very highly educated (post-graduate or professional degree strongly recommended, if not outright mandatory). Both you and partner have very…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/10/15 12:24 PM
0

It's because most men couldn't care less about activism on behalf of "men's interests", per se. That includes me. I support individual guys finding individual solutions, but advocacy on behalf of men as a whole? No thanks. I don't care enough about men as a whole, frankly, to care about being engaged about the kinds of things MRAs whine about.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/10/15 01:21 AM
3

Well, but there is still a market for bartering in cows. Bachelor A's cow is more desirable than Bachelor B's cow, and so more women want to barter for Bacherlor A's cow than for Bachelor B's cow. That is a market phenomenon where people are assigning value, and making choices based on it between alternative barter options. The key for being a market leader in the cow barter market is having the cow that most others want to barter for -- this gives you greater market power, even in a barter mark…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/10/15 01:07 AM
1

High school. Actually bumped into a girl at a "mixer", the awkward moment led to a conversation, and some dancing. Asker her for her phone number at the end of the event, and called her a few days later, and we went on a date the following weekend. Don't know what sealed the deal, although we did hit it off fairly naturally. Date went well, we dated for about 8 months before she left for college (she was older than I was). Nothing much learned from it other than the basic thread, really.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/10/15 12:48 AM
1

Edit 2: To respond to the "she'll divorce you once she has the green card" argument, I'll make sure she is from a traditional culture with low divorce rates, and I'll make sure she doesn't know English and keep her inside the home so she will be dependent on me and doesn't get affected by toxic Western culture. I'll also have lots of kids with her. Hehe. Okay, in all seriousness, if you are going the foreign route, the best way to do it is to expat yourself, go and live in that culture and have …
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/15 01:10 PM
1

I didn't say that so no need to be uselessly snarky. I just said it well predates the reddit sub. Seems a lot of folks don't know of the red pill apart from the sub, which is hilarious really for those of us who have been involved in the community since long before the sub was founded.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/15 01:48 AM
1

Yes.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/15 01:46 AM
2

The confusion arises from reddit. The concept of "the red pill" predates the subreddit and started outside reddit. So did referring to the alternative viewpoint(s) as "blue pill". The origin of the use of the term to refer to the non-RP viewpoint long, long predates the foundation of that satire subreddit, and often people who are red pill use the term that way, rather than referring to the subreddit.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/15 06:30 PM
3

Sharing interests is fairly unimportant to me. Intelligence is more important, in terms of being able to communicate, but that isn't guaranteed by being a member of a certain SES, or having a certain degree background (and there are also plenty who have boht and who are not in the upper middle class SES) -- the assortative mating of today is highly SES/degree linked almost in a lock-step fashion. Being cooked for and cared for is important to me personally as well.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/15 06:23 PM
3

Opinion based on observation of the very different relationships and marriages over the generations, and many conversations with people who are married in those generations (all of them in the same UMC SES, regardless of generation). The expectations were simply different than they are today, and that frames and limits most people's choices -- what has changed is that the frame/limit has changed, but it's still there.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/15 06:17 PM
4

I doubt that most of the men in question would have preferred to marry female doctors, because mate preferences in general were different at that time, and the social class expectations were different as well. In short, they wanted different things in a wife than the typical male doc wants today in a wife -- that has changed generationally.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/15 06:12 PM
2

In part that's true, but it's also the case, more generally, that mating has become much more tied to social class than in earlier periods. There used to be doctor/nurse, lawyer/secretary type pairings in the past -- they were at least as common as in-class pairings, if not moreso -- but now those class barriers are generally not crossed for long-term pairings (short-term pairings are a different story, but they tend to arise in different contexts as well). So UMCs tend to marry only other UMCs …
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/15 05:50 PM
3

I think the US will go the way Europe has gone: lower marriage rates, high cohabitation rates. People will keep pairing up, but less and less in the context of being married. Makes sense because everyone wants greater flexibility, and life spans continue to increase on average.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/10/15 01:47 PM
3

It's also the way school is done these days -- too much "Lake Wobegone where all of our kids are above average" crap and not enough outright competition. It's become more softened and so on in how things work in the classroom, and a greater emphasis has been placed on compliance and homework and so on. It generally trends in favor of girls succeeding because girls tend to thrive in environments like that, are generally more compliant (on average, there are outliers), more conscientious in genera…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/10/15 07:26 PM
2

Incels, by far, because incels are basically unattractive for any reason to the opposite sex -- true losers, which makes them true, natural pariahs. Sluts, by contrast, are disfavored by some men for LTRs, but are treasured by many men for sexual access, and are in many cases considered attractive by both mmen and women despite their promiscuity -- so they don't merit the kind of universal scorn that the true losers who are male incels merit.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/10/15 03:07 PM
0

I personally prefer men from east asian countries. Western society is broken and truthfully I think western men suck. What about Japan? Lots of people there eschewing relationships and even sex with the opposite sex, rampant use of porn/hentai/sex dolls, "herbivore" men and so on. The issue isn't Asia vs West, it's advanced capitalism, which tends to lead to decadence, whether that country is in the West or, as in Japan's case, in Asia.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/10/15 03:04 PM
6

I think people in general are more self-absorbed and narcissistic, and therefore less suitable for a traditional sort of relationship. One can argue, as has been done in this thread, that this isn't something specific to the underlying individuals, but is merely a matter of what is permitted in terms of behavior and expression today. That may be, but even if that's true, the end effect of lowered suitability for relationships remains the case.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/10/15 02:45 PM
1

Alimony is already going by the wayside in many places. The bigger issue is child support (compare levels in say, US where it is based on incomes and Sweden where it is based on a flat amount) that creates big incentives for women to divorce if they get main custody, even with no alimony.
/r/TheRedPill07/10/15 04:37 PM
0

If it's illegal, it's against the social contract, which is something we all benefit from. If it isn't illegal, it's up to you as to what you want to do. Morality, in 2015, is entirely a personal matter unless it is enshrined in law.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/10/15 04:28 PM
3

I don't entertain any illusions that it values me more than a compliant citizen, and that's that. I also don't lose any sleep over that.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/10/15 04:12 PM
4

I value it to the extent that it is actually a binding obligation, which is what the law is.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/10/15 04:08 PM
4

society/others would go on fine without you, how would you function without others? That relationship is regulated by the social contract, which is enshrined into the law. I obey it, and society functions because of that. I just don't agree that social obligations extend beyond that.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/10/15 04:04 PM
3

My obligation to society is based on the social contract that is embodied by the law -- it begins and ends there. Everything else is my business. If people think what I am doing is having a bad enough social impact such that they want me to stop, they can ban it, and I will stop. You can say that means "you don't care about society as much as you care about your self interest", but that's entirely a question of perspective, because from my perspective, society's interests are only legitimate to …
/r/PurplePillDebate07/10/15 03:52 PM
3

If it's legal, then I have no issues. If the social concern is great about the negative impact socially, it can be legally banned through the proper processes, and if that happens, then I will stop without making a fuss. If it's illegal I wouldn't do it, because that's against the social contract, which begins and ends with legality/illegality (everything else is one's personal opinion about mores, and not a part of the social contract).
/r/PurplePillDebate07/10/15 03:39 PM
1

Well some of us won't prefer to engage in illegality regardless of whether we are caught or not, so it isn't exactly the same thing I think.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/10/15 03:24 PM
2

Legal or illegal?
/r/PurplePillDebate07/10/15 03:12 PM
1

In almost 30 years working in corporate America, I have never seen one instance where long-term working-from-home for some people and not others did not result in substantial discontent, if not outright morale problems, downgrades for supervisor reviews and so on. It's regardless of the reason for allowing the person to work from home regularly. It's just a very live-wire issue, because many people would like to work from home if they were permitted to do so, and many resent that someone else is…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/10/15 01:09 PM
0

For the current application of the ideas today to be objective science, we would need some more current scientific studies of the behaviors and so on -- perhaps more will come with time, but perhaps they also won't be able to keep up with how behaviors are changing. Nevertheless, the fact that it may not be current objective science does not undermine its usefulness as a paradigm.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/10/15 01:00 PM
0

Except that I know many cases where both spouses worked as highly compensated professionals outside the home for long hours, and one of them (the mother) got full custody anyway -- they hire nannies with the cs money. It isn't all due to women being primary care givers, it's due to bias inherent in the system.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/10/15 12:52 PM
2

At this point, I think it would be very hard to make marriage a hard commitment, like these rules would do, again -- it would impact personal flexibility to too large a degree to be popular, given that personal flexibility is one of our highest values culturally at the present time. Probably would be better to have a Scandinavian type system where divorces are easy to get but not financially punitive to the higher earning spouse -- either in alimony or child support -- which would at least get r…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/10/15 12:42 PM
1

Yep. And Duke, too -- home of the Duke Fuck List, the Duke Porn Star, etc. Sterling background there.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/10/15 12:27 PM
1

Sounds like she's good for fun, but not someone you want to think about marrying, to be honest. Too many red flags for that.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/10/15 12:15 PM
2

But you have to realize that the core of individualism in the West (which is the opposite of "making peace with the larger system" as it is in much of the rest of the world) is not going away -- at least without the West ceasing to be itself. In an individualist culture, of course people are encouraged to go for it -- that's what we do, as individuals -- not to accept what they can get. It's deeply baked into the cultural DNA at this point.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/10/15 02:03 AM
1

Really? Then why did he single out Christians, regardless of sex, for headshots, while shooting the others in the leg, etc. Seems like he had lots of hate for lots of things, to be honest.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/10/15 12:42 AM
10

Two things -- one is that location matters, and another is that things have changed over the last 15-20 years such that the wall is moving up in age. Location -- Manhattan is a place where lots of women take very, very good care of themselves. LA is the same, South Beach is the same, etc. If you are sitting in the middle of the country, it isn't that way at all. Remember, the SMP is a truly local market, and so different local markets have different characteristics. Time/Era -- People, especiall…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/10/15 12:38 AM
5

For some (many) of them, what is attainable is not attractive enough to be bothered with, even after they try to improve their SMVs. If they aren't attracted to what they can attain (men and women alike), then people will sit out. It's really that simple. Just because someone is relatively unattractive does not mean that they are attracted to other unattractive people -- that's the crux of the issue.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/10/15 12:30 AM
1

How? What would that look like?
/r/PurplePillDebate02/10/15 07:35 PM
1

Yeah that could be the case for a lot of them. Female nerds are overrun with male nerd attention.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/10/15 07:03 PM
3

Can happen, sure. In fact, they're advised that they may need to drop their pre-existing friends because they are holding them back from progress in their new life. It's pretty normal when you make big changes to your life that there will be a transition to some degree among friends.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/10/15 06:55 PM
2

It's a small group now, in terms of people who are truly chronic involuntary celibates (people who have never had sex and likely never will) -- but it is possible that this group will grow over time, I think. I suppose that the current plan is bread and circuses -- porn, hookers, X-Box and so on. At some point that probably stops working, though.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/10/15 06:46 PM
1

Well, not sure what to do for you, then, but I'm sure you're comforted by that answer because it allows you to continue to pity your own situation. I do know that societies have a right to protect themselves from violence coming from incels.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/10/15 06:44 PM
1

Yeah but most nerds end up being able to get laid at some point. The incels are the subset of nerds who really will never get laid. It's a small group, much smaller than the overall number of nerds.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/10/15 06:43 PM
3

Well if you are lonely, having good friendships can help with that. If you are depressed about not having a sexual relationship with a woman, meds and therapy can help with that -- maybe the therapists in Russia aren't effective in these areas, but in the US people do recover very well from depression with meds and therapy. Not sure what else there is to do for someone who is truly one of the small number of guys who will be a lifelong celibate no matter what they do.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/10/15 06:13 PM
1

The castration deals with the sex drive, which is a source of huge torment for these guys. The therapy then deals with the depression -- that can be well-treated clinically, there is plenty of track record that this is effective when meds are coupled with therapy. In the case of incels, it would be likely that the therapy would include a strong focus on forming good non-sexual friendships so as to lead a good, productive life without sex, instead of being lonely and frustrated.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/10/15 06:05 PM
2

You can think what you want, of course. It does seem, to me, to be an empathetic solution for the small number of men who truly will be lifelong involuntary celibates in a non-fixable way. Couple it with lots of therapy, anti-depression meds and a reorientation, with therepautic help, towards forming life-enriching friendships, and it's likely everyone in the picture is much better off than having these guys bang their heads against a brick wall at some incel training camp, failing at it, and be…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/10/15 06:02 PM
1

Therapy and meds can help with that -- there are good depression meds these days, and therapists can help reorient someone like that so that they can develop good friendships with people so that they are not lonely.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/10/15 05:57 PM
3

Not themselves, but voluntarily submit to it as a part of therapy for their incurable chronic involuntary celibacy. Win/win for everyone.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/10/15 05:57 PM
7

I don't think that's clinical narcissistic behavior -- that is generally much more extreme than anything you have described. What has happened is that she has become a very pretty girl in her 20s, and is now leading the life of a very pretty girl in 2015. It's a dramatically different life than she could have led when she was 170, so she's decided to lead that life (and I suspect that, given what she has done, this was also a large part of her motive to lose the weight). In effect, she's a diffe…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/10/15 05:48 PM
7

I'm not suggesting it be legally mandated, but rather as a therapy to provide relief for long term incels who display the tell-tale signs of mental issues we see in these shooters (loner, socially isolated, etc.), as well as to protect society. It isn't evil -- it just makes good sense all around, and frees them of their misery.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/10/15 05:31 PM
7

It's better than having them shoot up a bunch of people every now and again. Many of these guys will never have a woman ever want to fuck them without being paid, camp or no camp. Why not put them out of the misery that arises from their unmet desires, and make society safer at the same time, while freeing them up to lead productive lives once they get over this aspect of their lives which for many of them will just never work.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/10/15 04:32 PM
3

He seems, from the reports, to have had a great deal of hatred for religion. Perhaps that should be explored as an underlying ideology that led to this tragedy.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/10/15 01:19 PM
1

The genetic stuff will be taken care of in time, with advances in science such that genetic inequalities are minimized, so those will take care of themselves given enough time. Shifting around wealth shares the benefits, but it isn't wealth that creates the problem in itself. Perhaps this is different in the UK than in the US, but in the US people who are from intact families do better than those who are not from intact families at all income levels, and this is really a matter of pure luck -- t…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/10/15 01:14 PM
1

It's not just wealth, though. The advantage of having intact biological parents living as a family is well documented and is completely unearned, and is therefore privilege. Shifting money around will never solve the problem of unearned privilege, it just shifts around the gains. If we are serious about eliminating all unearned privilege, the huge unearned privilege that stems from growing up in an intact family of origin will need to be addressed -- otherwise we're just dealing with symptoms an…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/10/15 12:59 PM
9

I think it's a small group of people, so it would probably be just as effective to castrate them.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/10/15 12:57 PM
3

2 is the closest. It doesn't mean that women want the best they can get -- men do, too. The difference is the "floor" below which they won't settle is higher, significantly, for women, vis-a-vis themselves, than it is for men. To me that's the key to hypergamy -- where does the "settle floor" lie -- above you or below you. For women it's pretty much almost never "below" themselves.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/10/15 12:33 PM
1

If people are serious about eradicating the fundamental unearned privilege that results from some people "lucking out" with families of origin that are more together, and hence give them a better start in life, than others, something more comprehensive than schools will be needed. You need to take away the unearned advantage that these people have vis-a-vis others -- otherwise the competition is not fair, and there is no equal opportunity.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/10/15 12:18 PM
3

I don't think his point is that it is any better in terms of the impact on the spouse, but only that the man is looking to have his cake and eat it, too, whereas a cheating wife is more likely to be looking for a new cake. Both are betrayals, but the latter is generally much harder to fix than the former, in terms of trying to patch up a marriage impacted by adultery, because she doesn't want to fix it -- she already wants a new man.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/10/15 05:51 PM
2

That could be reworked into more of an egalitarian/collective model for child raising. There is already going to be tremendous pressure in that direction, anyway, because people are realizing that family of origin is by far the largest source of "unearned privilege", and in order to eradicate the influence of that, changes to how children are raised will be needed so that there aren't people who "luck out" with their families of origin vis-a-vis other people. Needed as a part of the relentless d…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/10/15 04:52 PM
4

Actually it claims that women are not as attracted to them as they were to their prior BFs, not that there is zero attraction from the beginning. It's more of a case of very lukewarm attraction as compared to other men she can have sex with (who are bad marriage candidates for various reasons but who, a few years later, make great affair partners).
/r/PurplePillDebate01/10/15 04:43 PM
12

We would ditch expectations of monogamy. Perhaps we would rework marriage to be non-monogamous in expectation, or we would make marriages more temporary in expectation (i.e., limited in time, with limited recourse after an "expiration" and no big awards of cash and property or future earnings or what have you but just a straight up division of anything accrued during the term) and renewable with mutual consent. Allow people more flexibility to indulge themselves sexually once they are getting bo…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/10/15 04:09 PM
1

Has the power, yes, but it has never been used since the 1970s. In effect, it's a dormant system, and people have not been conscripted here since the 1970s. Claiming that the US has a military based on conscription is simply a distortion.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/10/15 03:49 PM
3

Red. Make it legal other than trafficking and pimps (so, in other words, the independent online hookers become legal, while pimps/madams and trafficking remains illegal).
/r/PurplePillDebate01/10/15 02:20 PM
5

This is one of those areas where the truth hurts, I think. Most men are not married to women to whom they are not attracted. There are probably some guys who do that, but the overwhelming majority of guys do not. So if he married you, he's attracted to you, unless he is in that small minority of guys who married someone he was not attracted to. Having said that, because most guys can't marry the hottest women out there, most guys are going to be more sexually/visually attracted to other women th…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/10/15 02:19 PM
1

The US does not have an active conscription for the military and has not had one for decades. That was scrapped in the aftermath of the Vietnam war. Men still need to register for "selective service", but that selection itself has been inactive for decades and would be exceptionally politically unpopular to reactivate. The US has nevertheless managed to wage aggressive wars on multiple countries without activating the selective service conscription mechanism. The US military is now a volunteer f…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/10/15 02:06 PM
4

Not in all cases they aren't. There are cases of guys who have been cuckolded who have to pay for the kids regardless, even when the truth comes out later after the divorce. Unless the guy learns of the cuckolding quickly enough after it happens, he's stuck (at least in most places in the US). Rules like that are a huge win for the female imperative -- it's like a grand slam home run for the female imperative.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/09/15 03:33 PM
3

I'd say genes create constraints on what is possible for any given man, and those constraints help to form his approach and attitudes. Not in the sense that a man with "beta genes" (meaning he's genetically capped out below the alpha level in the sense that self-improvement still caps out below that level due to genetic limitations) desires different things innately because of his genes, but rather that due to the limitations placed on him due to his genes, comes to terms with a life plan and ap…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/09/15 03:30 PM
4

And in the same sense. I think that most men harbor a harem type desire, which for most is constrained to the area of fantasy, for practical reasons (not feasible for him). Keep in mind, by harem here I don't mean a literal harem, but rather broad sexual access to a large number of women at whim.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/09/15 03:26 PM
5

I would likely rather be careful not to say in a categorical way that "all" of any group wants anything in particular, because that is easily critiqued.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/09/15 03:06 PM
3

Genetics impacts social rank, so they're both intertwined. Everyone has free will, and can overcome/suppress whatever wiring/conditioning they have, of course. So not all men have the same male imperative, there's one for alphas and one for betas? Not all men can have a harem.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/09/15 02:41 PM
7

Most males don't have access to a large number of women for mating. For these males, the invest strategy is better than not having any offspring opportunities. For males who have access to a large number of females sexually, the numbers game is different. Keep in mind, this is at the level of base drives, all things being equal. In a society like ours, it's obviously not a great strategy to impregnate tons of women.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/09/15 02:30 PM
4

The sex drives are what they are --- they are rooted in the desire to procreate, just like the desire for food is rooted in the desire to survive. We've taken away the procreative consequences for most sex, but that doesn't change the nature of the underlying drives, because those drives are not "rational" or based on rationality, they are more intrinsic and instinctive.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/09/15 02:21 PM
7

No, because he isn't limited to one go per 9 months. Numbers game says impregnate many to maximize chances overall instead of putting all effort into one every year or so (because, again, he isn't limited to that, biologically -- he gets more spins at the genetic mixing wheel per time period).
/r/PurplePillDebate25/09/15 02:19 PM
2

No. Comment pretty much says it all.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/09/15 01:26 PM
1

Not interested in your questions, because I don't agree with your framing of your perspective as neutral. So I am not going to play.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/09/15 12:09 AM
2

It isn't about personal benefit, but about reality. It reflects on you as well, if you prefer to think of it that way, in terms of your own ultimate worth. But honestly, a ultilitarian/usefulness view of the worth of humans is an exceptionally negative worldview.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/15 10:41 PM
3

The value inheres in yourself, regardless of what others think of you. Every person has intrinsic value.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/15 09:22 PM
5

No, it's inherent in the human person, regardless of what others think of you. There is always value in each human person. It requires a different perspective to see it, however.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/15 03:48 PM
3

It could be that way, if they really were off in the woods doing their own thing and really had left the world of women/relationships behind. The problem is they haven't done that. They talk incessantly about it, which means they haven't really gone anywhere. It would be one thing if they walked away and said "it isn't worth it to me", and then actually moved on to other things, and promoted that. But they don't do that, which is what makes them look like a group of rationalizing incels. I have …
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/15 03:14 PM
4

Doesn't make it less silly or reductive. There is human value beyond "what other people think of you", as well. That is social value, which is also different from intrinsic value.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/15 03:11 PM
3

Because they are being reductive (and also silly)?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/15 02:21 PM
4

That's easy -- it's because people have value, as people, that is greater than their sexuality or sexual value. That "other value" doesn't impact their sexual attractiveness, or their ability to replicate their genes (which is related), but it still exists. We needn't be reductive about human value just because we are realists about human sexual market values.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/15 02:17 PM
1

So many people in denial here. The bottom line is this: there is almost always something more productive/self-improving/beneficial for you to be doing than gaming. It's like junk food. Sure, eat it every now and then, but don't come on TRP talking about how junk food isn't bad, and how it's not a big deal and so on -- it's crap, and everyone is better off without any of it in their bodies. The same goes for gaming. It's just much better finding other things that are more self-improving, even as …
/r/TheRedPill24/09/15 02:12 PM
1

This is another form of hooking. The girls say that they don't have sex for money, because what are they going to say? Of course there is sex involved. The deal is this: for X amount per month/week, the guy gets 1-2 dates per week, with sex being understood. The overall price per orgasm is less than with a hooker, there is almost no law enforcement risk, and the girls are clean(er) -- they aren't like hookers who see quite a few clients in any given month, for example. Also they spend more time …
/r/TheRedPill24/09/15 02:08 PM
4

MGTOW is problematic in many ways (not least of which being that it is basically a group of guys who can't hack it in the current SMP), but it certainly isn't any kind of male feminism. Feminism is about the promotion of women. The idea they have is that women are disadvantaged due to male privilege, and that therefore equality must be promoted by some combination of building up/advantaging women and taking down/disadvantaging men (to remove the advantages of their privilege). MGTOW, as far as I…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/15 12:59 PM
2

Yes, more or less. If he's interested in that, though, he typically is not in the camp that is spinning plates to begin with, so it's kind of self-selected.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/09/15 08:35 PM
6

I'm not a feminist, but no social movement of any kind is responsible for your incel state. If you are incel, it simply means that you have been judged unworthy of procreation -- you're not making the cut. The bar isn't all that high, if you look around and see some of the people who are managing to procreate even today, but you're below the bar. That's a personal problem, not a social one. You can choose to fix the problem by improving yourself until you are above the bar. You can choose to mov…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/09/15 02:29 PM
1

Sure -- look at all of the contexts I mentioned.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/09/15 11:54 AM
13

A woman in the case you have described isn't chasing the same kind of guy for years and then shifting priorities -- so she isn't falling under the paradigm. There are women who don't. But there are also many women who do -- chase one kind of guy during the "fun"/"exploration" years, and then another later during the "I need to get sensible" years. It's the latter pattern that TRP describes. There are women who "are not like that", despite "AWALT" (AWALT means that enough women are like that for …
/r/PurplePillDebate23/09/15 02:07 AM
2

Wow, so you would say nothing in that case?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/09/15 01:38 AM
1

Gay male bottoms do, when they receive anal sex. I've read that they enjoy the combination of pain and pleasure -- I don't relate to that, but it's out there in text. I guess also the small group of "straight" guys who enjoy being pegged would fall into the same category as gay male bottoms.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/09/15 01:13 AM
13

TRP holds that most women who are capable of attracting an A but cannot get one to commit will eventually shift to Bs. It doesn't hold that this is necessarily conscious and cynical -- that is, that "she realizes she can't get As to commit to her". It may be that in some cases, but in many others the women simply get tired of As and not getting what they want, so they shift gears and look for different kinds of men. It's that shift which is what TRP considers lane changing, not an understanding …
/r/PurplePillDebate23/09/15 01:00 AM
3

So you're saying higher partner count women are like thin people and lower partner count men are like fat people? Why do you prefer low partner count men, given your own count is not low?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/09/15 12:39 AM
3

TRP would say it's a bigger risk. It's really up to the individual to decide what he wants to do in his personal life. TRP has a set of recommendations -- if you take some of them and not all of them, and it works for you, then that's fine. If it blows up, then you can't blame TRP because you didn't actually follow the recommendations. There are some TRPers who would probably say that the more men who tolerate prolific N counts among LTR/wife choices, the more women will be encouraged to pile up…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/09/15 06:14 PM
5

As teams of men (families, work places, sports teams, militaries, etc.), but not as men per se. It's almost always against other groups of men.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/09/15 05:49 PM
3

Heh, what about all the women in this very thread who say they are straight but who watch lesbian porn?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/09/15 02:33 PM
3

Interesting. Most BPs would call an RP with a higher count who wants a woman with a lower count hypocritical.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/09/15 01:54 PM
1

I think in the future women who are in that situation will live together as women and raise children together (not as lesbians). Kind of WGTOW with kids but without men.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/09/15 08:56 PM
5

There are plenty WGTOW, in practice, today. Women who choose not to be in relationships, generally because they don't like the men they can realistically get and can't really improve. Most of them focus on other things -- career, other WGTOW women, travel, etc. It's a thing.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/09/15 08:46 PM
5

Yes I know -- you tend to lose people when you start talking about things like epistemology which are unfamiliar to most people. I do think, though, that for those who can and do understand, it's a critical point. Having one hyperdominant epistemology has all sorts of drawbacks for the society and culture as a whole, in terms of degrading the objective validity of huge swathes of human experience and knowledge by lowering their value as truth. It's problematic, and has wide-reaching effects, man…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/09/15 04:56 AM
5

Hmm. That should be looked into, whether it's medical or mental.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/09/15 03:08 AM
13

The confusion arises because people usually use the word "attractive" rather than "arousing". For intelligent men, it can be attractive but won't make the woman attractive overall unless there is also physical attraction, and for most guys it isn't arousing (there was a guy here a while ago who claimed it made him hard, so there could be outliers like that).
/r/PurplePillDebate18/09/15 11:11 PM
14

The underlying issue is that the overwhelmingly dominant epistemology of the age, in terms of what is considered to be the criterion for determining "objective truth", is scientific. Everything determined by a different epistemology is considered, at best, to be "relatively true", as in "true for you, but not for me". It's "well-reasoned opinion" at best, which in an age which is dominated by scientific epistemology, gets pretty much no respect as far as "truth claims" go. So the areas of inquir…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/09/15 09:59 PM
2

The point is that the academic studies which are often used to try to discredit TRP ideas are themselves subject to substantial bias, and are not reliable.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/09/15 06:02 PM
1

From my skim of the pre-publication proof a few months ago, it isn't quantified in the way you are asking. That will likely be a topic for further research from the academics who are members of this group.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/09/15 03:45 PM
2

You'd have to read the whole study, which is behind a paywall. The link to the full study is embedded in the link in my OP.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/09/15 03:35 PM
15

Yes, and it should be noted that these aren't "gold diggers". Preference for alpha sex isn't gold-digging, it's the opposite. One could call it "gene digging" or something like that.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/09/15 12:03 PM
4

ou've misunderstood AWALT. The theory is that every woman has the potential to act like this based upon her internal biological urges and sexual strategy. Women can overcome these urges and control themselves... but with the sexual marketplace always forgiving women for everything and telling them there is nothing wrong with their poor behaviour... naturally a lot of them are now following their urges blindly. This is a key point. AWALT is an operating assumption, not an ironclad fact in terms o…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/09/15 11:57 AM
2

Read the full paper, and then ask the researchers. Or publish a critique.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/09/15 05:08 AM
2

If that is a mark of merit, it's a very small one when compared with the systematic and systemic bias that is described in the study. The latter characterizes the academy, and not the exception of the former. Heck, it's likely that this was published precisely because the writers were progressives and not conservatives -- itself a confirmation of bias on the part of the reviewers, if that's what happened.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/09/15 04:53 AM
9

this study confirms what you've thought, so you are all about it. how is that not confirmation bias? The fact that it has been performed by people who are not of my own ilk dispells that to a significant degree, precisely because the study itself is not based on any confirmation bias on the part of the researchers themselves. This isn't a Heritage study. And, yes, I am biased. So what? I am not an academic, and I have a perspective -- I am not objective. I admit that. You are rather obviously bi…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/09/15 04:47 AM
10

so red pill is obviously not objective is your point, ok. i guess no one should take it seriously then. No, just that you can't apply the same standards to academic research as you do to populist ideas. That much seems obvious to me. I know you like to do that to discredit red pill ideas, but when the peer-review academy's results are themselves subject to bias, as demonstrated by their own kin, I'll keep my own counsel over your peer-reviewed studies, and with good justification. because this o…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/09/15 04:33 AM
4

Who knows? I personally know some academics who are quite not-leftist, and as the article indicates, they keep their mouths shut. Maybe people like them peer-reviewed it. In any case, you're basically arguing that any group that is accused of bias can avoid the accusation by approving the publication of an accusation of bias. That doesn't follow.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/09/15 04:30 AM
4

and what does it say about 'leftists' that they wrote such a paper? It says that this a group of outliers, because as their paper itself describes, there appears to be a systematic, systemic bias in favor of progressive views among leftist academics, coupled with a hostile environment and outright discrimination against people with different perspectives. I think that says much more about leftists in the academy than the fact that after several decades of this nonsense, a small group of maverick…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/09/15 04:15 AM
12

That's a false comparison, and you know it. The red pill isn't an academic institution with peer review. It's a bunch of blogs and a subreddit. Comparing that to the entirety of academic social science is really desperate, even for you. That article is saying that the academic peer review system is failing due to bias and discrimination against non-progressive perspectives. As for what it says about the academy when confronted with this kind of critique, we will see. I can only say it took an aw…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/09/15 04:09 AM
2

Light is fine (I mean light in application, not in tone, and yes you can tell by the time you're almost 50, tyvm), heavy is off-putting. Natural is great if a woman can pull it off, but that's genes to a large degree, and to a lesser degree skin care.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/09/15 02:40 AM
6

Exactly. The obsession with the subreddit really puzzles me, although I expect it's because people are unfamiliar with the larger red pill, beyond the subreddit. Honestly, I only became involved with the subreddit in the last year or so, but have been involved in red pill since the later nowts. I suppose the same could be said of tumblr feminism, although I do not know much about that because I have not personally looked at it very much.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/09/15 02:34 AM
2

It's a troll. A pretty well-executed one, but almost certainly a troll.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/09/15 12:42 AM
3

The bot does her much better than BB can.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/09/15 10:23 PM
4

Traders, maybe. Bankers and lawyers, no. Different cultures.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/09/15 10:22 PM
7

That's very rare. I have actually had Goldman as a client of mine several times over the last ~25 practicing law. The typical Goldman investment banker isn't having meetings in strip clubs. Traders maybe, that's a different demographic, but not the bankers. You're not going to come across Lloyd Blankfein at a strip club. Anyway, it's not something they brag about, and to be honest, being in the heights of business and law for much of the last 25 years I've never seen anyone in the US propose hav…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/09/15 09:45 PM
6

Not the case. Strip clubs, we we know them today, didn't really exist before the sexual revolution. There were burlesque shows, but full nudity stripper poles and stuff like that came about from the sex rev, about the same time as second wave feminism. And it was always considered sleazy and loserish. If anything the strip clubs we have today are classier than they have ever been, and people still consider it loserish. As for the women at strip clubs, it's mostly parties like bachelorette partie…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/09/15 09:34 PM
11

On the substance, it's just the flipside of the double standard. Most RP guys see the validity behind the double standard, because women have much easier access to sex-qua-sex than men do, so it makes sense that male sexual success is seen as an achievement in a way that female sexual activity is not. It follows from that that women, who have sexual power, are not losers for attending male strip clubs, because it isn't seen as an act of desperation -- they have sexual access, and everyone knows …
/r/PurplePillDebate17/09/15 09:26 PM
1

Sleeping with the strippers isn't common, but going to see male strippers for a bachelorette party is common now. Not ubiquitous, but common.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/09/15 09:15 PM
1

I can say that it is quite common for bachelorette parties now in the US. I don't think there are any peer-reviewed academic studies on the prevalence yet.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/09/15 09:13 PM
6

It's become pretty common in the US for bachelorette parties in particular.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/09/15 08:01 PM
4

Could ask men the same thing, really. I mean a lot to be said for a bot who has a custom-sized penis (and tongue as well) that can go for as long as she wants, in the way that she wants, and only as and when she wants, and then can be sent off to do the dishes or take out the trash or whatever other useful thing she needs done around the house, and never watches porn, or plays video games or drinks beer or farts or leaves the seat up and so on. Seems like that would be perfect for many women, re…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/09/15 07:08 PM
3

Male, lawyer.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/09/15 02:23 PM
1

Women are generally less content than men are, period. I think this is the case feminism or no. There are contra cases in both sexes (very laid back women who are content, and very discontent men who are picky about every detail of their lives), but in general men can be happier based on a lot less than it takes to make a woman feel happy and content. I don't think that changes much based on any external criteria, but is rather interior-driven.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/09/15 02:16 PM
2

Not in the initial phase, no. We'll have to a lot more improvement on that front before it becomes enough to power the machines on the scale we expect.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/09/15 02:09 PM
2

Well, but there will be a lot of income disparity still even in a basic income scheme. Longer term, we need less people -- far less people -- and better quality (higher intelligence) ones moving forward.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/09/15 01:29 PM
1

Doesn't work that way here at all. All you need is the kid's passport. I've also vacationed with my son up in Canada as well, with no issues or questions ever being asked about who has custody over whom and so on.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/09/15 12:56 PM
1

Yesterday (beginning of the day here, today, so ...) Up at 615am. Check work emails received overnight from overseas, and respond to any that are super-pressing. Shower/prep for work. Drive to work, listen to world news on radio. Park at work ~730am. Read headlines from FT and WSJ on smartphone while walking to my office. 730am-5pm -- work (combination of meetings, phone calls, drafting, and breaks). 5-545 -- drive home (to gym) 7 -- drive home from gym, take fiancee to dinner 830 -- home from d…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/09/15 12:53 PM
2

Think about what you're saying- someday soon, machines will be able to produce enough resources for us ALL to live comfortably! En, no-one said anything about that. The machines will be very resource-hungry. He who controls the resources will control power over the machines which need them to run. Machines themselves are not a power source -- keep that in mind. There will be plenty of haves and have nots. Star Trek is not coming soon, unless you can actually make a magic box that creates anythin…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/09/15 12:44 PM
1

If you're worried about the coming rise of automation, quite apart from sex bots, the key there is understanding that there will be winners and there will be losers in the drive to automation. As with everything else involving a free market, you want to be with the winners and not with the losers. The winners will be the highly skilled workers. The rise of automation will continue and accelerate the established trend of more money going into the pockets of those with more skills, education and c…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/09/15 12:15 PM
12

It's a free market. No-one owes anyone else anything -- not sex, not a job, not a place to live, not love, not kindness, nothing. All you are owed is the right to have others not harm you in a way that violates the law -- that is the beginning and end of the social contract in a free market system. So, you need to be strong, seek what you want, take what you want, and do what you want. That doesn't mean you have to be a jackass and walk all over people -- it means that you are not "owed" other p…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/09/15 12:03 PM
1

Not illegal here to move away. Not in the least. My ex moved to Canada, then to another US state and then finally after a few years back here (she wanted, I think, more "assistance" with the child raising enterprise than she thought she would before moving). Impact on the child and his relationship with me was not a strong consideration. I also personally know of another guy whose ex also moved to Canada. Courts do nothing about this, because here the parent who has physical custody can move fre…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/09/15 11:57 AM
3

Tinder is an artificially inflated environment, because there are hundreds and hundreds of men in one place, which is not replicated in real life. Tinder is going to be more competitive, because of that, than anywhere in the real world, unless you go to very exclusive clubs and so on.
/r/TheRedPill16/09/15 05:41 PM
2

Not to me, no. I suspect that many people who find the androgynous look attractive are to some degree bisexual in attraction.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/09/15 05:28 PM
1

I tend to follow that kind of approach as well. The binary approach overlooks gradations, which do exist. But having them as descriptions seems more usable and perhaps even more likely to achieve more of a consensus, than arguing about the gradations of 1-10, and what scale you are using. I also think that the Gaussian approach, while accurate, is also useless for placing people in gradations. There are gradations among people, even in the 4-6 large group, which tend to get smoothed over in a 1-…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/09/15 05:26 PM
1

Not in my experience. In my experience it's that Mom moves away with the kids, or mom moves a new man in who plays daddy and alienates the kids, or mom alienates the kids from daddy herself, and so on. All of these with my own eyes from real situations which I know well (including my own, but not just my own). Bloopers can fuck right off with the misinformation about how this works in practice for divorced men. Fuck. Right. Off.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/09/15 01:47 PM
1

When things hit the wall, they hit the wall. The key is that you try to prevent them from hitting the wall beforehand.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/09/15 01:45 PM
1

It depends on where she lives. Some places (e.g., South Florida, Southern California, etc.) are very competitive, and a natural looking woman may have a harder time competing, whereas in other places it's really not necessary. In general, I think it's only worthwhile if she gets a 1.5-2 point SMV lift out of it, based on the rest of her appearance.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/09/15 01:44 PM
2

Art and creative works are not conspiracies, but they certainly are trying to influence the viewer. In today's era, one of the most salient ways to influence people through art is via film and television. You can, for example, "mainstream" certain ideas very easily by planting them in the middle of a popular TV show or film, and the ideas just seep into the mainstream mindset. Again, that's not a conspiracy -- it's just the creator doing what artistic creators have always done, which is try to i…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/09/15 01:36 PM
2

If I had it some years ago, /u/Xemnas81, I could have saved three people some rough times as well. We take what we can, when we can, with what we have available at the time -- and you can do that, too!
/r/PurplePillDebate16/09/15 02:52 AM
1

Yes, but it reduces it, creates dysfunction in it and so on. Like the Grass Eaters of Japan, but more intense -- that is what is coming.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/09/15 02:46 AM
1

Abandon entirely, no. But abandon significantly? I think so. Even HD broadband internet porn has taken a large number of guys, effectively, out of the sex market, created dysfunction in sex in the ones who have relationships and so on. This is that on steroids. Men have a drive here that exists well outside of emotional validation. This will be basically an expansion of porn, and porn is by no means a "minority report" pursuit among men currently, even without bots or VR.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/09/15 02:31 AM
1

Before that happens, the Rooneys will have rejiggered the law and the culture in favor of themselves. If we do have a singularity event, "humanity" is finished, and will be replaced by cyborg/borg/AI.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 10:32 PM
3

Totally wrong. Women marry men for all kinds of reasons.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 10:10 PM
4

It's not the letter of the law, it's the way it's applied. Any lawyer understands this.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 08:00 PM
3

All I can tell you is that as a lawyer, we abide by our experience over time. And believe me, I spoke with many family lawyers at the time, and they all gave me their read based on their experience in hundreds of cases. That experience is much more relevant in any one jurisdiction, in terms of what is likely to happen in your specific case, than general statistics blurred across an entire country. People who are in that situation need to look at what happens generally where they live, and not na…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 07:08 PM
5

I know because of extensive discussions with numerous family lawyers when I was going through my own divorce. This isn't theory for some of us, you know?
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 06:56 PM
5

It's in the past -- not current. And in any case, women marry for all kinds of reasons, not always because they are very attracted. She looked up to me, I was her mentor (although only five years older, they were significant years), we were intellectually compatible. Her attraction to me was underplayed, and it eventually undid us.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 06:48 PM
3

That's in large part due to the unlikelihood of prevailing at trial. Look, I am a lawyer myself. I was also advised by the best family lawyer in my county. You make the call as to whether to litigate to the nth degree based on likelihood of success as compared with cost. Most of the cases that are litigated involve cases where the father has a good chance to win, because the mother has huge problems that he can point to.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 06:45 PM
6

That isn't true at all. In my state the women almost always get physical custody, and joint physical custody is still not common. This includes cases of dual working professional couples, like mine was. And she who gets the kids gets the house, generally, as well. Having been through a divorce ~12 years ago, I concur with /u/TheGreasyPole that there are huge disincentives for men to avoid getting divorced.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 06:31 PM
6

In my former marriage, believe me, foreplay was not an issue. It was lack of attraction, full stop. And I'm not going to go into it again, here, because you can simply scroll down for the details if you are interested. It had nothing to do with technique, foreplay, initiating, romantic talk, gestures or anything else.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 06:18 PM
5

So call it unattractive, then. The point of dread game is becoming attractive again. As you can see from the OP, if the first step works (i.e., become attractive again, and she responds), you don't go to the other steps. If it doesn't work you escalate (and you can only do that if you are attractive to other women to begin with, otherwise it doesn't work), and if that doesn't work then you leave. It's a way of seeing if fixing yourself fixes the marriage, but going about it more systematically t…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 06:16 PM
7

This isn't about technique. It's about guys with long term dead bedroom situations.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 06:14 PM
7

The thing about that is that attraction isn't a matter of discussion. If you say "Hey, ok, I get it, I slacked off, and I am going to get hot again, and then will you fuck me?" is really a road to nowhere. You need to get hot again and see if she will fuck you because she is attracted to you, not because you're telling her you're making yourself more attractive so that she can be attracted to you. You don't talk someone into being attracted to you, even your spouse.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 06:00 PM
3

OK, but if the guy correctly diagnoses that his betaness is why she doesn't want to sleep with him, fixing that is priority one, over leaving. If he fixes that, he may still be able to fix the marriage. If he isn't beta, he almost certainly doesn't have a dead bedroom situation to begin with.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 05:57 PM
5

Not when they are 3 they don't. Anyway, good information. People who don't have kids really aren't in a position to speak about this kind of thing, in my opinion. Not talking down to you, but it isn't "theoretical" when it's your kid. It's not a theoretical discussion on an internet forum between childfree people.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 05:22 PM
5

it revealed to grandalor exactly how bad it was, and should have ended there, instead of moved onto more counselling. You don't do that when you have a kid. At least not in my book. Do you have children?
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 05:18 PM
4

Yes, I agree. The voting this is also a function of who happens to stop by when something is on the first page as well. It's very random, and with the downvotes (even though not officially permitted here, it's obvious that they happen), it all gets muddled.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 04:57 PM
4

True, but that's a function of the internet open forum model. On the internet, debates are held for the lurker/peanut gallery crowd. You score points for them -- you know that your interlocutor will never concede. I can't recall one significant internet debate where a party has conceded any significant point to an adversary. There's no need -- it's all virtual, and so there isn't the kind of social pressure to concede points when you are in person and everyone is glaring at the person who obviou…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 04:03 PM
5

Why would you proceed with more counselling after finding out your wife has no remorse for being unfaithful and is defensive when questioned? To respond to this, which appears to have been edited in -- I learned of the affair during the time we were in counseling. It started before then. As for why I didn't just serve papers immediately, it was because we have a son (he was around 3 at the time), and some couples do come back from affairs. I believe that if you are married with children you try …
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 03:10 PM
5

I would argue you're not fixed until other women are hitting on you, but what if that never happens? Suppose you're too old or plain ugly, i take it you're fucked? Did you read the OP? If you can't become attractive, you can't "run dread game". If you aren't attractive to other women, it doesn't work. Unless you left out the part where she was out of shape, got into shape, you didn't respond to this, so she got other men to hit on her, and again you didn't respond favourably, so then she cheated…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 02:48 PM
8

Right. It's hard to take it seriously as a debate sub, because the other side is mostly satirists who want to destroy and denigrate, and not really discuss. It's an odd place, I think, as a result.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 02:32 PM
7

And you've seen it work that way because of dread game? Me? these aren't healthy relationships, they are broken people manipulating each other. The first step of dread game is fixing yourself. I have seen that work, yes. The next stage of dread game is making it clear you have attractive options. I have seen that work as well. Do you consider that possibly he needs a shock to the system? Remember, at that point he already has fixed himself. He has become more attractive and she hasn't responded.…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 02:23 PM
8

Again, I ask, why do you think it's fine to emotionally manipulate someone else, your partner - to the point of openly flirting with waitresses - in order to get them to come around? In my mind, your relationship is already over, why jump through all the hoops? Your partner can't be trained, Because people can become re-attracted to people, including people to whom they are married. It can and does happen -- I have seen it in other marriages. That step isn't the first step. It's the step you go …
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 01:45 PM
10

Dread game is more effective than relationship counseling, without question. If you're the one who is out of shape, then you get in shape. If she doesn't respond, then you move to more dread. It's laid out well in the OP. The first step IS realizing that YOU NEED TO FIX YOURSELF. If she responds to the fixing up job you are doing/have done, then the job is done -- the OP says as much. If she doesn't, however, you move to the next step. All of that is preferable to divorce, believe me, even if it…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 01:31 PM
1

I am not anti-Russian, if that's what you're asking.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 01:11 PM
9

I just don't believe you, I just don't. I could conceive that maybe you were broken up with, on account of all the hurt, but I don't believe you ever got married and then divorced. I was married for 8 years. We have a son who is 16. I'm not hiding anything, and I'm not sure what your agenda is. Mine is simple: I've been through this, and I can clearly say, for any man who is going through this, he absolutely needs an escape plan just in case Plan A (saving the marriage) fails.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 01:08 PM
1

Not necessarily a bad thing, really.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 01:00 PM
10

In some ways he is, yes. Just as there were feminist "leaders" who were also, in many ways, extreme in some of their views, while still being leaders.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 12:55 PM
8

The point, ICYMI, is not to take extremists as representative of the whole.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 12:49 PM
11

And there's also Mary Daly, who had tenure at Boston U., and wrote about how the population of men needed to be reduced to 10% of current levels. All feminists are like that, right, because Mary Daly said it. Unless all other feminists in the world stand up and openly and loudly repudiate what she wrote, they are all complicit with what she wrote and all must be taken to agree with it, right? The fact that Mary Daly said those things, in and of itself repudiates all of feminism, and everything o…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 12:35 PM
9

I think people who aren't so much into the emotional manipulation of others solely for the purposes of sex don't plan best-case-scenario escape plans when they "try to save their marriage" because then it seems, really, really disingenuous. When your marriage is on the rocks, you always need to have an escape plan. I've been there. If you don't have an escape plan, you will get run over badly if things go south (and your spouse will likely have one, even if you don't).
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 12:32 PM
7

Not really. It does mean you need a more open mind, and be open to learning from the experiences of others. I think quite a few younger guys (like my sons age) aren't open-minded, and need to figure things out for themselves -- this isn't a knock, it's a very common, perhaps the most common, approach that people take.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 12:29 PM
1

Not in the least, no.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 11:53 AM
10

Reddit is so self-referential. Who cares about the subreddits? The Red Pill is a concept that existed well before there was a subreddit named after it, as did the concept of what is "blue pill". If there is going to be any meaningful debate here, it has to be between these concepts, and not squabbling about this or that on a particular subreddit of reddit. The concepts, the ideas and the pracrtices are well beyond reddit, and pre-date reddit, on both sides. Why be constrained to worrying about s…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 11:38 AM
2

Nah, we just take things as they are and try to work them. Want to try to change the species-inbred bias in favor of the female sex in the course of one human generation? Have at it. I don't think it's likely to succeed, so I opt for what works, given the tilted background we operate in. Whatever works, works, in my view.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/15 03:03 AM
3

I wouldn't say "main objective", but something that is on the side of the main objective and which, if foreclosed, would diminish the enjoyment of the trip.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/09/15 11:11 PM
6

A "break" means being with other people. It means the relationship is over, but both will check and see what each is up to when they are in the same place again. It isn't a relationship -- it's just like a future option to check in, to see if anything is still there, if/when she is back in the same place. I don't recommend "breaks" at all, because usually the person asking for the break wants to date/fuck other people, and the person acquiescing to the break hangs on during the break to see if t…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/09/15 10:01 PM
2

Well if guys are not approaching you it's either because they are not visually attracted (unlikely based on your photo), otherwise put off (personality related), or because they have different preferences. Also keep in mind that San Francisco, despite being a market with a sex ratio in women's favor (more men), isn't a beloved market by women of all kinds due to the kinds of men living there, generally. You may want to try another market other than SF or Seattle.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/09/15 05:50 PM
4

I think his point is that the whole point is whether the standard is perceived as "unjust" when applied to the type of person (that is, to a person of their sex, race, orientation and so on). It is not perceived by SJWs as "unjust" to enforce standards that "oppress the oppressor", because these are considered "just" against the "oppressor". This is why the feminist theory of history swallows everything and, in effect, justifies treating men like rubbish while paying lip service to equality. In …
/r/PurplePillDebate14/09/15 04:08 PM
7

Most black women have no interest in white guys at all, really -- many really hate white guys, as we can see in this thread, and are quite open about their hatred for white guys. The interracial dating market skews in odd ways, but interracial dating, taken as a whole in terms of the total percentage of relationships, is small potatoes. Even today, most relationships are between people of the same race. It isn't racist, it's just because people seem to be more naturally attracted that way, and c…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/09/15 04:03 PM
3

People will pay for discretion, if she has a good review and so on. The older women, who are hot and tight like Favor, can in many cases provide better service than the 20 year old can. Of course that only applies if the older hooker is like Favor -- among 40s aged women, Favor is an outlier, definitely in the top 5% of all 40s women in looks, no question.
/r/TheRedPill14/09/15 03:21 PM
5

Sure they exist. Part of the reason is that a good number of people of both sexes who are unattractive themselves prefer to be alone than to be with another person who is unattractive. Just how human preferences work.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/09/15 02:42 PM
9

I agree -- this is how I see it as well. It's so fundamental a disagreement that it renders the marriage impossible, and that disagreement is simply leading to poor behavior by both parties. The marriage is no longer viable because there is a fundamental disagreement, and so separation and divorce seem the best option here.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/09/15 11:28 AM
8

All of this makes me think: the blue pill downplays the importance of being alpha, and the red pill downplays the importance and value of "emotionally vulnerable" beta qualities. Not exactly. The underlying idea is that women all (in the sense of the "meaningful all", meaning most heterosexual women) prefer the "alpha bux" (AB) -- that is, the guy who is a combination of alpha and beta, and has both traits. That's what all women prefer, if they can find it in the same man. Very few men are ABs, …
/r/PurplePillDebate14/09/15 12:19 AM
1

This is exactly my experience with them as well. Outside the job, they prefer men who are more dominant than they are. Are there exceptions to this? Yes, but they are rare and exceptional.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/09/15 04:54 PM
3

If someone is addicted, that is one thing. Husbands who are divorced by their wives are usually not divorced because their wives had an addiction (and if they had an addiction themselves, then it's their fault and I have no sympathy or advice other than they need to get clean). For the garden variety divorce scenario, it is far better for a man to try to fix the marriage than to incur the financial disaster of a divorce. I say this as a man who is, in fact, divorced.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/09/15 04:44 PM
4

I agree that it is contradictory, but the revolutionaries and self-liberators can justify their actions as liberating and empowering, which places them in a relentlessly positive light -- even if they are the same actions that the men are engaging in. That is, the very same acts when engaged in by women are liberating, while when engaged in by men are misogynist. Hence why it is misogynist for men to see women as sex objects, but it is empowering and liberating for women to see men as sex object…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/09/15 03:40 PM
4

Exactly. Real world, folks. Women who are reliant on online dating are problematic, because an attractive woman does not need online dating to find men.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/09/15 03:18 PM
5

In that thread, trp_zzz stated that the double standard is "women good, men bad," which is the apparent formula that every feminist writer follows. I'd like to think that feminists and blue pillers are a bit more high-minded than that, but it's hard to say since none of them stepped forth to deny it. The underlying idea is that because men are the oppressor class and women are the oppressed class, the same behavior engaged in by men is oppressive/demeaning/sexist/misogynist, while when engaged i…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/09/15 03:14 PM
4

Makes perfect sense to me, and very much aligns with TRP. Men need to be hot to get women. No mystery there.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/09/15 02:59 PM
1

Religious prohibition on sex outside marriage.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/09/15 02:56 PM
4

No, divorce is a financial disaster for many men. It's much, much, much better to fix the marriage and stay married than it is to divorce, in almost all cases. That's what MTRP is about -- avoiding divorce.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/09/15 02:25 PM
3

Actually the stress increases the likelihood to take risks like CC riding and cuckolding. Military is similar. Put men and women together in high stress situations, and sex is gonna happen in spades.
/r/TheRedPill12/09/15 05:04 PM
2

I don't get people who get personally upset about things people say on the internet. I really don't. The internet is a place where you're going to be offended by a lot of things, no matter what your perspective is -- there's a ton of stuff you will find offensive, upsetting, denigrating and so on. Welcome to humanity+anonymity. I really don't see the issue. If you find something too much to handle, avoid it. It's what most of the rest of us do, and it works well enough. Yes, it creates silos, bu…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/09/15 01:24 PM
1

Shit, dude. Well at least you learned, and will do better in the future.
/r/TheRedPill12/09/15 12:38 PM
16

It's one of the more notoriously promiscuous work environments that there is. Other ones are bars (very closely related) and also nursing -- promiscuity among nurses is sky high as well.
/r/TheRedPill12/09/15 12:37 PM
1

Masturbation is in no way, shape or form a solution to the sex drive. Gosh, you have some very odd views about sexuality.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/09/15 11:14 PM
3

Prostitution is going to happen. The legal enforcement, at least in the US, focuses on trafficking and madams/pimps, but the tens of thousands of "independent escorts" advertising on the internet are almost never a focus of law enforcement, for reasons of both resource allocation and de facto policy. De Facto, that kind of prostitution is tolerated in most of the US today, which is why there isn't much of a movement towards legalization -- either among the customers or the prostitutes themselves…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/09/15 01:54 AM
4

Those whose relationships ended as a result of cheating, were there red flags that you may have ignored/missed/chosen to ignore? The red flags were subtle at first -- changing wardrobe (sexier) and hairstyle (same), but only showing them when outside the house other than with me; spending late hours socializing with work colleagues after work (claimed to be networking), and so on. In retrospect I should have seen them, but I was naive at the time (late 20s) and very much what would today be call…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/09/15 01:05 AM
1

In other words, not interested in pursuing for anything long term. A sex-based relationship that is disposable. No longer or greater investment personally.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/15 05:12 PM
2

OK. Short term looks matter more to the point where interesting doesn't rate. At all. So advantage to looks 8 in an absolute, locked-in, way for short term. Long term would be a tougher call, but since 7 as a baseline for either attractiveness of interesting-ness is still quite high, I'd probably still prefer the 8 looks with 7 interest, because 7 is still interesting enough, likely, especially in someone who is hotter.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/15 05:04 PM
2

No, but a straight up comparison would involve two people, and the trade-off in each of them. Someone could be objectively more interesting but less interesting to me. Also agreeableness can be quite different as between them. Also it depends on where the relationship is going from the beginning -- short or long term. And so on.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/15 04:30 PM
1

I would need to be seeing the people in person and interacting with them to see what the actual differences are between 7 and 8 in these categories.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/15 04:22 PM
2

No, these are the guys who tend to be of the "looks is 100% of everything, I am therefore screwed, and the world sucks and I hate it" variety of mindset. It's pretty much not what the manosphere in general holds, and certainly not what the red pill holds.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/15 02:23 PM
0

I dunno. What I'm saying is that it wouldn't surprise me if it were to be the case as one item on a bucket list -- which isn't "I always prefer to hook up with black guys" but rather "I have a place on my bucket list to hookup with a black guy, and when an interesting enough one comes along, like an athlete, I'll check that box". That wouldn't surprise me, although I also have not observed it in my own older demographic.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/15 12:09 AM
0

For hookups maybe, but not relationships so much. In my area, you see more of these relationships than, say, 10 or 20 years ago, but not that much more. It's still pretty small potatoes as a percentage of the total dating scene. But for hookups, I can see this as being a box to check on the hookup bucket list for some women, perhaps particularly younger ones under 30.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/09/15 11:49 PM
1

True, but so are many of us men. My college male friends (HYS, late 80s grads) are only 50% married. The ones who are not married are happy to be so. They don't want the women who are on offer. This is common to both sexes. We don't need each other any longer. If we don't find something special, it's better for many of us, especially the smarter/achieved, to fly solo. It makes sense, for men and women alike.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/09/15 01:24 PM
4

Dread and negs are pretty ineffective unless you have some SMV yourself. If she hasn't DHV'd by her looks, that's pretty ineffective, and if she is unattractive, it isn't going to make her more so. For women to "game" men, it's more or less acting super-feminine, because that beguiles a great many men. But women do this, and know this, for the most part already -- either innately or through magazines/websites that tutor them about it.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/15 10:30 PM
1

You take ownership of your own problems that led to your anger. Don't wish things were different, wish you were better. And then get fucking better.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/15 10:25 PM
1

I have no issue with you going for what you want. If you can get it, go for it. But don't whine if you don't get it.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/15 10:18 PM
1

Hmm. How is it that you are unattractive to women, yet have had long term girlfriends and you say you could have seduced beautiful and smart women, etc. What's missing from the picture, because these things contradict each other.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/15 02:17 PM
2

The superbowl is a special case, because that's an event for parties and so on, which people attend because they are parties not because they are interested in the sport. This is both men and women -- I've seen planty of guys at super bowl parties who don't pay attention to the game and so on -- it's just a special event. I think many of us have had that experience at a super bowl party, which is why I never attend super bowl parties any more. Beyond that, women vary. There are women who are int…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/15 02:13 PM
2

I just don't see it as a big deal, unless the boy in question is very young -- say pre-pubescent young. A pubescent 15 year old boy isn't a victim of rape when he has sex with his female teacher, to be honest. The age of consent laws were designed to protect girls from older men, not to protect boys from older women. The "boy learning from an older woman" is an old meme for a reason, and it isn't because it's ever been considered rape. It's different with girls, because of the different physical…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/15 02:04 PM
1

Most people are not that religious in the USA anymore, especially among the under 35 set. It's more the case that many people simply have racial preferences in dating.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/15 12:11 PM
2

Well, if you are deliberately choosing a difficult market (interracial dating with very attractive white women), it's going to be difficult for you. You can make it easier by going to a diverse city where there are lots of people of different ethnicities and national backgrounds (NYC, DC, Miami, LA, etc.), but you will still find many women who prefer to date their own race of men. This is still a strong preference among all races, really, in the US, where interracial dating is, outside of a han…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/15 12:03 PM
1

I think, though, that men and women are both responding to the market rationally in ways that match their relative market power. On average, women have higher power when younger overall, and generally higher sex market power for even longer, than men do. So it makes rational sense to see women using that power in ways that benefits them by branch swinging and so on -- it's a power they have, for as long as they have it. Average men who are younger have relatively little power in the sex or relat…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/15 11:31 AM
2

You know what I think has happened? I think a lot of women went WGTOW. They would rather be alone than date a man they don't like. They have their own careers and don't want to be bogged down by a guy. They don't want to be in a relationship where they will be expected to follow traditional roles and cook and clean (and sacrifice their careers). They make their own money and own their own homes (and occasionally fuck MGTOW guys on tinder) and they're happy with this life. Sure, they might date a…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/15 11:17 AM
2

So why aren't there women willing to try the same with those guys for free? Because they have no need to do so. Male demand for sex from women outpaces female demand for sex from men at all levels other than at the very top of the male food chain. It is one of the imbalances in life that men need to deal with. Of course women will opt for the best that is available to them, and if that is better than you, it won't be you -- hence the need to be more competitive.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/15 02:19 AM
1

Not castration, no. But therapy can help deal with the fallout from loneliness, and also help develop other approaches to life, and other alternatives, to help live a positive life regardless of your personal relationship situation.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/15 02:07 AM
0

In the past, such people were, in fact, sent to monasteries and convents. Of course, that isn't happening to any significant degree any longer, but the point is that under even the old system there were some who were simply not marriageable. It happens. It isn't easy, but life isn't easy. It happens, and if the person is in that position, they have to face it and, if they have trouble doing so, get help to help them face it. There are more men and women in this position today than ever before, a…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/15 02:01 AM
2

I think it's more the case that, as you suggest in your third point, when you have open markets, you are going to have people who are competitive and people who are uncompetitive -- winners and losers, based on market power. Free markets are great for the former and not so great for the latter, in terms of individual outcomes. That's why it makes sense, when you are facing a free market system, to be at or close to the top of the totem pole so that you can be a winner and not a loser in the syst…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/15 01:51 AM
0

The same goes for being moreconfident, more exciting, more funny, more assertive and more sociable. Some people are just not those things by nature. Maybe they're the reclusive type who like soft, gentle interactions and a lot of validation, and doing things different will be a pain in the ass for them. But if they do lend a woman that way, how should they feel, about that woman only loving them because they catered to the image of an alpha male? They would feel the same way as the guy who gets …
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/15 01:47 AM
1

Consider it done. Standards lowered to the point where they don't exist. I'll take any woman even if she's Ursula. Now what? Well, you have to be competitive with the men who are competing for them. So you have to know that market. If you aren't competitive with the other guys in the market for those women, you're back with the "make yourself more attractive" (which means more competitive) or, if you're tapped out there, you sit out. Well, that's what I wanted to hear. Which is why I asked BPers…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/15 01:30 AM
1

TRP doesn't say that any guy, regardless of his attributes, is capable of becoming a slayer of HB8+. It says you can improve from where you are -- how high you can go does depend on your constraints, especially things like height and penis size that you can't change. I'd guess that even with TRP Ramesh isn't going to do well in the Western casual sex market. He could do a bit better in the LTR market, but that's also going to be a push for him unless he has quite low physical standards, unfortun…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/15 01:26 AM
2

First if you don't want to talk about a single variable, then don't say at the top of your post that you're limiting the discussion to a single variable. More fundamentally, this is different from the male preference in that it's a specific shift away from being attracted to you precisely at the time of the month that she is most interested in sex. It's a mismatch. She's attracted to you most when she is not most interested in sex. This doesn't mean that she isn't attracted to you, but it does m…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/09/15 06:15 PM
9

It is a great position to know that when your wife is at her horniest and wants sex the most, she is attracted to men who are quite different from you?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/09/15 05:57 PM
4

It depends on the context, really. A woman who has a high N who is trying to get into a LTR with a man who cares about Ns will usually try to hide her N. Either she will sideline the conversation by refusing to discuss the past and try to get around it that way, or, if pressed, she may outright lie. If the same woman is trying to get into an LTR with a man who doesn't care about Ns, she may still be uninterested in sharing her exact N, but probably wouldn't lie about it if pressed. The rule of t…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/09/15 04:13 PM
12

It's not racist to be less attracted, or unattracted, to people of certain races. You're not under a moral obligation to be sexually attracted to people of all races equally. If you think that they are lesser because they belong to a race that you do not find attractive, that could be racism, but simply not being attracted to people of a certain race isn't racist.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/09/15 04:07 PM
2

Dalrock is oriented towards marriage and Christian marriage in particular, so, yes, he doesn't advocate plate spinning and I don't think I've ever seen him advocate using dread (although some of his commenters do). I think following his approach, the presence of options is more implied by the obvious high value of the man in question (i.e., his obvious level of attractiveness, and the reactions he gets from other women when H and W are together in mixed company, without H actively trying to attr…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/09/15 03:39 PM
3

Yes, but it's rare. Mostly this is in the movies and romance novels because it is a very satisfying fantasy for women: taming the rogueish, womanizing alpha male to be loyal to her and her alone. This is the fantasy at the core of much romance fiction, and so it shows up in movies as well. It's satisfying, I think, because it provides the fantasy of "having it all" -- the super-sexy, super-masculine, hot-to-every-woman alpha male who, because he is so overwhelmingly in love with the woman, sets …
/r/PurplePillDebate04/09/15 03:35 PM
3

There are plenty of TRPers who are not anti-feminist in the sense that they do not want a different system, because they have adapted to the current system and are prospering under it. They tend in most (not all, but most) cases to not want to get married or have children.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/09/15 03:27 PM
3

Divorce sucking and not wanting to lose contact with the kids is a big reason is many cases. In many cases, they're just beaten down -- they've given up, given control to their wives, and just want to keep their heads down, not get into too many fights, and get through life. You can tell these guys when you see the interactions between the couple.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/09/15 12:51 PM
2

They're differently situated. It's hard for most people to give advice to the opposite sex regarding mating that is useful because most people of both sexes tend to project to some degree the experience of their own sex in the mating game into the advice that they are giving, despite the fact that they are giving it to someone of the opposite sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/09/15 12:49 PM
5

Yes. The closest was one of my closer college friends. We were in college in the mid-80s. He's still a player now, in his late 40s. He was married briefly (for around 3 years or so) in his early 30s, but otherwise has been a player. What has done it for him? He has a naturally handsome face. He spends quite a bit of time grooming. He has lifted since he was in college (and it wasn't common then to lift, not like it is now) -- he isn't a bodybuilder, but he has always been firm and toned with som…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/09/15 12:44 PM
2

Viewing someone as a sex object does not make one either a misogynist or a misandrist. It may make one "shallow", but heterosexual attraction, for men in particular but also for a growing number of women, is inherently visual, and therefore focused on the "object" of one's vision. When men are called misogynists for "objectifying women" (i.e., viewing them sexually), it's really inapposite -- a man who views a woman only sexually may be shallow, but he doesn't hate women. Shallowness isn't misog…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/09/15 10:31 PM
3

Yep. Avoiding divorce and being separated from your kids is a pretty strong motivation for trying to fix up the marriage rather than dump her for marrying you as her BB.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/09/15 06:12 PM
2

She's in Australia. The demographics are very different there.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/09/15 12:04 PM
4

I think all apps where people are meeting other people are considered dating apps by many people, but the fact remains that Tinder was set up as a hook up app. It was explicitly based on Grindr, which is a gay man's app for finding random sex partners based on physical hotness and proximity. The basing of it on Grindr was explicit by the developers of Tinder, so it's very amusing to see people think of it as a dating app, but perhaps understandable because there are so many dating apps, that peo…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/09/15 09:29 PM
3

Dalrock has a follow-on post from this afternoon here.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/09/15 08:40 PM
1

Well it's a sex ratio issue as well. The Bay has a very male-skewed sex ratio -- in general, women will be picky and control the market there because they are scarcer and therefore in higher demand overall. The situation is reversed in the Northeast, where men are scarcer and therefore in greater control of the market.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/09/15 07:57 PM
3

This is true. It distorts for both sexes, I think. Also mobility has an impact as well, in that people of both sexes tend to flock to bigger cities where people are thought to be hotter (something which is truer in the case of some metros than others). This can lead to a congregation of higher SMV people in certain places, that has a very distorting effect (i.e., a 6 in Miami Beach or LA is probably an 8 in Minneapolis or Cleveland, not all due to innate differences between those areas, but beca…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/09/15 07:53 PM
1

It wasn't that long ago that we didn't generally use the word "gender" in the way it is used today. We used the word "sex". The rise of the word "gender" was done more or less deliberately to drive a wedge between biological sex which is, leaving aside a tiny group of outliers who are hermaphrodites or similar, a binary thing, and the individual expression of members of each binary sex. Sex roles, which were similarly binary, emerged from the reality of binary biological sexuality. The liberator…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/09/15 01:36 PM
1

You need to work to get better -- improve yourself relentlessly, physically and socially. Network like crazy. Get out of the house and go to places where women are and interact with them (not the mall, but activities and so on). If you aren't naturally very handsome, don't put a lot of stock in online, and stay in the offline world, but you absolutely have to work as hard as you can to maximize yourself before you really foray much into the dating/mating market, because otherwise you will end up…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/09/15 12:53 PM
13

The effect exists among women as well in that if there are more women who are unattractive (due to, say, the increasing rate of obesity among both sexes), it makes women who would be in the middle range (if these other women were not obese) more attractive simply because they are of a healthy weight.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/09/15 12:46 PM
10

Honestly I have never heard a high powered professional woman refer to her husband this way, yet I have heard at least a dozen of their male counterparts refer to their wives this way. I'm not suggesting it's a difference based in mean-spiritedness, but it's nevertheless striking. I think it arises from the ambient culture.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/09/15 04:27 AM
1

I agree that you can't make yourself gay. All I was saying is what you were saying, and one of your compadres laid down the law on me. I think we both have the same views on the issue. It was just startling to me how some on your side (not you, here) have such a knee jerk reaction when folks on my side speak truth about something like fluidity, while not saying anything about people choosing to be gay, yet folks on your side throat-jump. It's just one factor that contributes to the antipathy, I …
/r/PurplePillDebate01/09/15 04:19 AM
3

Nor did I say that. I said what you did, but got that response.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/09/15 04:10 AM
14

It's based on the assumption that men are being gracious in saying and acting this way, because they are viewed as the sex with an overwhelming stranglehold on the levers of power -- so that kind of "benevolence" is seen as graciousness. For women to respond in kind would be for the oppressed to be bootlicking their oppressors, rather than an enlightened, privileged oppressor trying to overcome his socially privileged oppressiveness by being gracious. Note: I am not endorsing this kind of bootli…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/09/15 03:16 AM
1

It's not the averages have no meaning, but that they don't speak to distribution.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/09/15 03:05 AM
1

That's the thing, really. There is no way to really measure this, because self reports are notoriously unreliable (hey bloops: people lie about sex, d'oh). So "studies" are mostly bullshit because they are based on self-reporting without any verification, so it's all subject to lying. Not scientific in the least. The "studies" are therefore as relevant as anecdotal experience is, and that's why the disagreement between red and blue exists -- there isn't any real tie-breaker when it comes to the …
/r/PurplePillDebate01/09/15 03:03 AM
4

It's true that men don't generally care much about other men, but we also don't peddle ourselves as the more empathetic and caring sex, the "emotional and relationship naturals", do we? We're pretty ok with being considered the way we are, based on how we practice a combination of outright competition and "collaborative competition" with those in our own hierarchies of work/team/family/platoon, etc.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/09/15 01:27 AM
4

And when I have said basically the same thing (as in "lesbian option", meaning choosing to live in lesbian relationships), I got corrected by a bloop for saying that this is not possible, because it is not an option or a choice.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/09/15 01:21 AM
3

Well it would never be an open "tax on single men". What you do when you want to do something disproportionate is you have the tax rate apply to all unmarried people (or something like that), but then selectively give credits which are also neutrally named but which are disproportionately drawn by women. So everything looks neutral on paper, but the effect is not neutral and it operates, in effect, as a bachelor tax.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/09/15 12:55 AM
5

After ww2, when there weren't enough men to go around, many women chose to live in lesbian relationships. (This is true, by the way. If you want to know more, look it up yourself) When a Red Piller points out stuff like that, we get "lesbian is not a choice, you fucking homophobic shitlord" from every blue pill in sight.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/09/15 12:51 AM
4

The issue is less surplus -- if you're only supporting yourself, you need a LOT less than if you are married with kids, and so you can choose different jobs which involve less work and less pay -- and less total economic output as well. There will always be some guys who are naturally ambitious -- that isn't the issue. The issue is for the guys of average ambition -- historically high marriage rates and likelihood of marriage encouraged many of these (not all, but many) to be more productive tha…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/08/15 09:57 PM
3

Well, but my point was the kind of indifference you're referring to isn't really the kind of indifference that TRP is referring to -- TRP isn't saying "be indifferent to other girls, because that makes you more attractive to girl X", but rather that "being indifferent about any particular girl, including girl x, makes you more attractive to girl X". In a relationship of length, the focus shifts a bit, as the guys on married red pill sub discuss.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/08/15 09:21 PM
1

Keep in mind that the indifference is towards her as well, not only other girls.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/08/15 09:15 PM
4

Red Pillers would say a man in that situation is at a significant, if not substantial, risk that his wife will leave him for one of her lovers. Will that always happen? No. There are some women who are "into" playing that role, but the number of them is vanishingly small. It may be the case for a guy in that situation, but it may also be that he's taking a huge risk. Of course, everyone is free to do as he pleases, regardless of what we think.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/08/15 09:10 PM
4

I can't find the exact quote, but it was something like "Homemaker should not be an option because if it is, too many women will choose it". It's usually attributed to Simone de Beauvoir.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/08/15 07:59 PM
5

You asked if someone doing that could be considered RP, and I explained why not.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/08/15 07:48 PM
2

Right -- it's a mix of both. Some are more egalitarian and some are more second shift, but neither competes well with someone who has that aspect of their lives entirely managed/done by their spouse.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/08/15 05:54 PM
10

Not in an active sense, because essentially you are the ultimate beta (or lower) in that case. Your wife is having sex with other men while you are relegated to masturbation, as if you were not even in a relationship. RP would say that a man who is as beta as that is simply not sexually attractive to most women, which is why instead of becoming more attractive to women, he has instead decided to fetishize his own shortcomings and get off on them. Not a healthy place to be.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/08/15 05:36 PM
3

It has been reformed in many places, but not everywhere. There are strong sentiments against getting rid of it completely.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/08/15 05:27 PM
2

Basically, yes. He can "lean in" more into his career, because his wife manages the house and the kids. She, by contrast, if she is an equal-type arrangement, has to juggle responsibilities and cannot therefore be as single-mindedly dedicated to her career as the guy with the SAHM can. It's why they're constantly saying, if you read what they are saying, that women won't achieve equality at all levels of the workplace until women have achieved equality at home -- that means fewer (or ideally, no…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/08/15 05:26 PM
6

It will be both men and women moving away from monogamous marriage towards other forms of relationships which are more flexible. In the short term, we're going to see more of the same -- a steady but gradual and continuing decline in marriage rates and, in the US at least, durable marriage becoming increasingly a socio-economic class marker. The folks who aren't marrying will, in many cases, still be cohabiting -- this is already happening in many socio-economic segments in the US, and it's also…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/08/15 05:23 PM
4

There will probably always be the Mommy Wars type of thing between SAHMs and career mothers (and even women who choose to be childfree). It has its roots in feminism, in terms of what the feminists of the 60s-80s era were writing, but typically today it isn't really a manifestation of feminism, but the rather more mundane manifestation of people disliking other people who make different choices than they do -- something which is rampant in the culture, even among people who self-identify as tole…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/08/15 05:09 PM
41

Exactly. It's a fairly weak attempt to turn the tables and belittle sexually successful men by implying that it's the women who are using the men for sex and not vice versa.
/r/TheRedPill31/08/15 11:51 AM
1

I don't agree that it is hyperbolic in content, but the delivery can be at times. The best content providers, like say Rollo Tomassi, are not typically hyperbolic in delivery or tone. As for what the hyperbolic tone or delivery says, it says that lots of guys on the subreddit aren't at the point of amused mastery or true confidence yet. Seems obvious to me, and isn't a problem. Anyway, I am not on the West Coast, and I need to go to bed, so I won't be responding again until the morning East Coas…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/08/15 03:31 AM
4

Often, but not always. There are people who are truly just very gregarious and expansive, and it isn't fake. Different personalities. Are there lots of guys at the subreddit who aren't at the level of amused mastery or true confidence? Sure. So? They're supposed to be working to get there. Looking at sausage being made can be unpleasant at times.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/08/15 03:26 AM
5

You need to reach the end goal. It's like someone with alcohol problems -- they are told to fake it till they make it (i.e., until the life changes become second nature and truly take hold, in which case it is no longer "fake"). If you get hung up on the fake it till you make it stage, you have failed, just as is the case with AA. As for the woman who is projecting more confidence than they have, it's just a question of getting to know the person well enough that you see them in different contex…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/08/15 03:17 AM
1

One of the issues here is the fundamentally self-referential nature of reddit. The blue pill and the red pill are both larger concepts than their respective subreddits. If the question is posed about the members of a subreddit, that's a very different question than if the question is posed about the red and blue pills in general, outside reddit.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/08/15 03:13 AM
6

Until you make it yes. Faking it is not the end goal. The end goal is self improvement such that the confidence is naturally arising from yourself and what your actual value is. I don't know why that's hard to understand. Fake it till you make it is also used in other contexts where substantial life changes are in process, like AA.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/08/15 03:08 AM
6

Actually, TRP advocates self-improvement to the point where confidence actually is reflected in a very relaxed attitude. "Amused mastery", not being a difficult prick.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/08/15 03:03 AM
10

Not at all. Someone who is genuinely confident is normally very relaxed and easy to deal with, because they are very secure. What isn't attractive is pushyness, which isn't really confidence.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/08/15 02:16 AM
9

Averages overall, where not broken down by sex, are likely dragged down by the significant number of men who have fewer partners than in previous generations. (Disclosure -- I am an Xer, but my son is a millennial.)
/r/PurplePillDebate31/08/15 01:44 AM
10

It very much varies by socio-economic strata. The highly educated professional upper middle still forms relationships and get married. They are also a very small portion of the population, but if you are in that segment, it can be an odd experience -- it's almost all very politically liberal, ideologically feminist, and sex positive and so on, but in terms of personal behavior and actions it is very conservative. They tend to work in the current system because they have discipline, and long-term…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/08/15 01:05 AM
2

She certainly is making some part of it up, probably the part about being blacked out drunk. The blacked out part sounds odd, because she is saying that she is still sure she didn't have vaginal intercourse because she would have remembered that, but insists she was blacked out -- eh, being blacked out doesn't work that way. Likely she was drunk, but not blacked out and had vaginal sex with the guy, or she was blacked out and she has no idea whether she had vaginal sex or not. At the 30k foot le…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/08/15 12:59 AM
1

Replace most of their labor with robots. This is going to happen anyway, the only issue is what we do with the excess surplus labor, which is mostly low SMV. Who knows how that will be managed, but the real issue will be keeping them pacified with bread and circuses in the meantime, while a longer term solution is rolled out, which will involve less people in general. That dovetails nicely with the collapse of marriage and declining birth rates, really. A core problem is that we will need far fe…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/08/15 12:30 AM
1

Maybe, maybe not. No-one knows what the future holds. And if guys are into their own political activism apart from TRP, then good for them. But that isn't what people come to TRP for, and it isn't what TRP is.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/08/15 12:01 AM
4

I understand that TRPillers believe that an individualist lifestyle is the smart choice now , but shouldn't they believe an authoritarian , religious system would be better for civilization as a whole ? Is it not the rational thing according to TRP ideology ? You always come back to this, it seems. Once again, from the top. TRP is not a political ideology, or a system of ideas which has an opinion about what "the best system would look like". TRPers are all over the place on that, and it isn't w…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/08/15 11:58 PM
1

Women are more sexually fluid than men are. See the following Harvard University Press book, written by a woman: http://www.amazon.com/Sexual-Fluidity-Understanding-Womens-Desire/dp/0674032268
/r/PurplePillDebate28/08/15 11:49 PM
2

I don't think it's a hangover of patriarchy, really. The women are not looking for men who outpace them to a huge degree and are providers for them, but for guys in the same general level (perhaps a bit higher, as they may be a bit higher in age as well in many cases, but not substantial). In the upper middle class (which is what articles like this are focused on, really) this is seen as "compatibility" -- the idea is that you can't understand someone, or be equal with them in a marriage, where …
/r/PurplePillDebate28/08/15 08:13 PM
3

There's a tipping point where that's the case, but most upper middle class marriages aren't ending in divorce. It's kind of like a golden handcuffs situation, where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. The economic sweet spot for that situation differs based on where you live, but it generally means two substantial incomes, such that losing one of them doesn't leave you bad off, but is nevertheless quite acutely painful from a high end lifestyle perspective. Those folks stay married. …
/r/PurplePillDebate28/08/15 08:08 PM
1

Because, as noted by another commenter, the uneducated laborer has a thundercock and the sex is great, and you don't need the money, because you make it yourself. Right?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/08/15 08:02 PM
1

I agree. Good times ahead for educated men, if they can manage to be attractive at the same time -- they will literally clean up in the next generation (which is great for my son, because he's in this demographic and is now in his later teens).
/r/PurplePillDebate28/08/15 08:02 PM
3

One thing that struck me in the article was that, in colleges with a majority of men, they had more traditional views on dating. In colleges with a majority of women, they tend more towards a hook-up culture. That's predicted by sex ratio analysis. The idea is that the sex that is less numerous is more in demand and therefore can skew the market to its preferences. Lots of men means women get to demand relationships, few men means that men get to demand hookups.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/08/15 07:59 PM
7

It's true that the imbalance started 30 years ago, but it hasn't been a chasm for those 30 years -- there is significant lag baked into the marriage stats for people who graduated from college 30 or 20 or even 15 years ago. It's the last 10 years or so that the difference has grown as large as it is, and it's getting larger -- so the phenomenon of musical chairs for the highest educated women is getting more acute in this generation, and that looks to continue in the years ahead, because we cert…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/08/15 02:53 PM
3

This is happening on the margins, but looking around my own cohort (women in their 40s and 50s, lawyers, married, DC region), I don't know any who are married to anyone who is an unemployed biker. Now that may change in the younger generations, due to the number crunch they are facing, as noted in the article, but it isn't something educated women of my generation have generally done. Yes, you have some wild cougars on the margins, but they're a marginal phenomenon as compared to the average 45-…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/08/15 02:22 PM
1

Well, for you, you are crunched in that case. I suspect from observing their behaviors that a good number of similarly situated men are less exacting in their arousal triggers than you are.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/08/15 02:19 PM
4

I think both of these developments are spreading currently to communities other than the black community -- a drought of highly educated white collar men relative to women which will create both a disincentive for these well-positioned guys to marry as well as incentives for women to change their standards and marry other kinds of guys. This hasn't happened in previous generations to any significant degree among whites, at least among the high-status educated (lawyers, docs, execs), so it's a tr…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/08/15 02:16 PM
8

This seems to be how it plays out, I agree. I think that's why the "crunch" is felt more in the latter group than in the former one. The latter group is dominant in places like DC, which is probably why the WaPo focused on it -- it's a live issue for those kinds of women.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/08/15 02:11 PM
4

That will be a part of it, for some women. It depends on where they are on the totem pole after the education happens. I don't think there will be too many execs and lawyers married to guys working on rigs, but I can see college educated social workers, nurses, teachers and so on doing that. "Edcuated" encompasses a broad range of economics, I think, in terms of jobs.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/08/15 01:18 PM
11

It's more that the guy at 38 has more options than the guy at 25 does. To have a lot of options at 25 as a male you really have to blow the doors off in terms of looks, in particular, and also other things are very helpful. It's a very challenging age for a guy. Yes, if you're that guy at 25, you clean up, but an average guy at 25 isn't doing very well. At 35 he does better. Now, that doesn't mean that the average 35 year old has an easier time with women in their early 20s. No. In order to do t…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/08/15 01:15 PM
2

If this is true, why not focus on less attractive women to marry/date? Even if they don't have the same sexual draw, surely the fact that you can build a more open, relaxed relationship should be a major draw. No worrying about shit tests, holding frame, not showing weakness. You could have a real and proper partner, a woman you can lean on and trust to be by your side. Some guys do make that choice, and if they are happy with that, then they aren't red pill, for the most part. Low SMV people ca…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/08/15 08:18 AM
1

Point being that despite what is often said here about looks being of primary importance for women, clearly this data is not consistent with that, unless you seriously think that Yale has more and hotter men than all of these other schools.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/08/15 07:54 PM
1

It's less important than other things.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/08/15 04:49 PM
5

Physical attractiveness, confidence, discipline, mission/vision, leadership. Join my adventure, in other words.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/08/15 03:59 PM
41

What's coming next is more cuck marriages for higher educated women, where they marry a less educated, lower earning man, expect him to be the caregiver, and they have sex with the sexier unattached men who are spinning plates like never before.
/r/TheRedPill27/08/15 03:57 PM
2

Indeed. That must be why the schools are so high in the rankings! I didn't think of that!
/r/PurplePillDebate27/08/15 03:55 PM
3

Yep. Women use Tinder or just hook up with co-workers when they want to have an affair. AM is a sausage fest.
/r/TheRedPill27/08/15 03:28 PM
3

It means that the men at TCU and Yale are better looking, right, because looks is the critical factor in women's selection, right?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/08/15 12:28 PM
2

Don't take the bait, guys.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/08/15 12:23 AM
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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