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harbingerofcircles Archive

View 0 posts and 84 comments by harbingerofcircles on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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Upvotes Comment on Subreddit Date (UTC)
3

Hey you can disagree all you want. Point out the misogyny as well. Its pretty apparent in this thread tbh. But don't be condescending.
/r/MensRights16/12/20 01:55 AM
1

Dont think we have anything to disagree over at this point. We both presented our side to the best of our ability. And I dont think we're going to a consensus of any sort. So might as well end it here. Have a nice day!
/r/MensRights13/09/20 11:34 PM
1

"That would be me pointing out an extreme logical flaw in your premise in a pithy manner." That's called an argument mate. Or rather a counter argument. You didn't substantiate it much, but i always try to be generous and deal with pithy remarks, sarcasm and their ilk as if it was a serious argument. Also, no need to separate every statement of mine and debate it one by one. You loose sight of the other persons over-all argument and muddle the debate in this manner. Of-course generalizations in …
/r/MensRights13/09/20 10:53 PM
0

hmm. Could be a valid argument. are ALL generalizations bad? Including the statement that "all generalizations are bad"? I guess you have to draw the line somewhere. And then decide if that line is mostly valid or not. For me. I draw the line here. Generalizations are bad. And statistically that statement is true in enough cases, for it to be generally applied.
/r/MensRights13/09/20 09:17 PM
7

Double this. Generalisations are bad. Whether feminists do it. Or whether MRAs do it. Understand that.
/r/MensRights12/09/20 10:33 AM
2

That's literally my personal job in life. I swear. Every where I go. In every aspect of my life. I just can't stop seeing group bias and how idiotically retarded it makes whole groups of people. It burns my bones.
/r/MensRights09/09/20 09:28 PM
2

Thankyou for being so patient and explaining your view so earnestly and in such good faith. To be honest, i don't have too much hope either. Because at the end of the day, this is an identity based group. And identity based groups naturally tend towards solidifying and building up biases in their membership. The movement is still in its infancy, so it's possible that its direction be indluenced enough to make it more inclusive and more resistant to in-group bias. But i don't have tooo much hope …
/r/MensRights07/09/20 04:33 PM
1

You come off as incredibly petty mate.
/r/MensRights07/09/20 04:28 PM
0

İ really don't see a parallel here to be honest. Dating is messed up. İt's messed up that guys are supposed to make the first move. İt's a cultural blindspot. That isn't talked enough about and causes alot of suffering for guys. But I don't think you have a point here. Men treat women like shit all the time as well. İ have guy friends who behave the same way with their matches. None of them have been arrested or issued an arrest warrant. İ think you're being a bit hyperbolic here. She is a shit …
/r/MensRights03/09/20 08:06 AM
1

Edit: Sorry made some after-posting changes. Might have annoyed you if you were in the process of reading. Done now. Wanted to discuss how gender-critical and rad-fem thought is indicative of underlying misandrist tendencies in feminism itself rather than isolated offshoots but it got too long. You're right about most of these views being held by radfems. And clearly I understand that or I wouldn't specifically have referred to them as such. But my contention is that while you give your side the…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/09/20 03:35 PM
1

İ mean we aren't in disagreement. İ think mrm needs more men's issues focused activism. And also in principle, i don't have any disagreement with the feminists either. İf i can engage with feminists and convince them to address some of the issues with the movement that tends it to misandry, or atleast include mrm on the negotiation table for issues which affect men, we could come up with better solutions to these issues that are equitable for everyone. But if we go forward without including femi…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/09/20 02:48 PM
2

İ mean I'm pretty sure this would be considered shit whether you reverse the roles or not.
/r/MensRights02/09/20 02:31 PM
1

"isn't defined as a faceless enemy of men, and discussed extensively without reference to any individual feminist theory" True. Most of the manosphere is pretty hostile to feminism or atleast parts of it. You could call that the common thread. But does that mean you can reduce the anti-feminist concerns of the manosphere to them all believing that "there is some sort of global "blue pilled feminist" cabal of witches controlling a government of cucks"? That is a criminal oversimplification in my …
/r/PurplePillDebate02/09/20 02:10 PM
1

Don't understand what you mean to say.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/09/20 01:52 PM
2

Hey you just found one. Hello!
/r/MensRights02/09/20 11:39 AM
1

Yeah. Whatever his opinion. He was trying to rationally argue his point at first. But original commenter was unable to be talked to. So he switched to the sort of engagement the other was used to. Belittlement. And is quite good at it i must say.
/r/MensRights02/09/20 11:37 AM
1

Hahaha. Thankyou for being honest. İ loved it. Let's just leave it here then. We can see that we were both honest in our conversation. And that is more important than whatever position we were trying to argue.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/09/20 10:57 AM
1

I'm not sure what you're talking about here honestly.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/09/20 10:48 AM
1

Sure. İt can be done. And probably will be/is. İ just want to point out that if we extend your analogy. You've put feminists on the same side of history as those opposed to the suffragists. Also. "if, as you say, men can always do better than women without help, then it shouldn't be too hard for you to pull it off." İ don't say this. İ believe men and women are fundamentally equal: in ability, proclivity, behaviour etc. Everything. You should reflect on why you assumed me to have this opinion.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/09/20 10:36 AM
1

You're right. The two central ideas of feminism i.e. gender equality, and there being a multiplicity of oppressions in society. Are both very very basic and common sense ideas. İ don't think anyone in today's liberal society except the criminally insane can disagree with them. However, the devil (as always) is in the details. The ideological framework that those ideas are interpreted in determines: how such inequality is to be identified; what defines oppression; how is the relationship between …
/r/PurplePillDebate02/09/20 09:41 AM
0

"Believing that there is some sort of global "blue pilled feminist" cabal of witches controlling a government of cucks is a crazed conspiracy theory spread by the manosphere to scare its members into embracing extremist ideas." İ agree with your argument here. But i don't think you apply it to yourself and your side sufficiently well. Explaining to people from the "manosphere" that all women(even the most decrepit areas of the manosphere make the distinction between "women" and "feminists") are …
/r/PurplePillDebate02/09/20 09:36 AM
2

Hmm. What if you find that in your support of men's rights you are opposed to some feminists positions. What happens then? Take due process of law in cases of sexual assault. Or definitions/punishment of rape. If you articulate your position and campaign for it, you get feminist hate brigades, loss of friends/social status, loss of employment etc. How are you supposed to "not obstruct feminism" and just "work for bettering men" in that case.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/09/20 09:30 AM
1

Woof. I support men's rights, but this dudes perspective hurt my eyes. Women didn't "promise" men anything. Women or any other group doesn't have to promise "men" as a class anything. Your worldview is the same as the feminzais who claim we have always been in a perpetual gender class war. You guys are two sides of the same coin. I supported (emphasis on the last tense) not because I saw anything in it for myself as a man, but because it was the right moral thing to do. I don't support feminism …
/r/PurplePillDebate02/09/20 09:26 AM
1

I think you're going to an extreme though. I agree with you that narrative of absolute oppression is a mis-representation. But I think you're going in the opposite extreme. I have seen misogyny in my society. And it feels natural to me to assume that older Christian western societies were similar. Because I can identify the trends and attitudes I see in my society still today, in the stories that history tells of every day life in that time. Just because what you have been told is innccurate or …
/r/MensRights31/08/20 08:55 PM
1

honestly feel like we're going too much into semantics. Ok so the person came across as condescending. Maybe they didnt intent to. Miscommunication. End of story. They admitted that the sources are legit and and that they stand corrected. Honestly feel like they should be commended for this rather than us having a meltdown on the technicalities of their tone of address
/r/MensRights31/08/20 08:25 PM
2

Sorta isnt. Look around you. Do you not see people literally defending feminism, calling out bias, calling feminism the devils spawn, and all of these disparate opinions being upvoted? I've spent more than my fair share of time in femininst subs. Theres extreme opinions here. On all sides. The only opinion you wont find is a defense of inter-sectional feminism in its current form. You cant find 1/100th the depth of disagreement found here, on literally any feminist sub on reddit. So no. Not an e…
/r/MensRights31/08/20 08:20 PM
2

Can I still put it up my bum?
/r/MensRights31/08/20 07:58 PM
2

Beer and lemon juice. I challenge you to a duel. To death. With lemon slices.
/r/MensRights31/08/20 07:57 PM
0

"I didn't ignore anything, this was my first response on this thread, you are confusing me with someone else." Sorry mate. I confused you with the original commenter. Although if you'd be up for it, I have a comment above on why we should engage constructively with even those whose positions we find unconscionable. You seem like a thorough evaluator. If you're interested, I would love your input on that too. "The entire thing was full of lies of omission and was a one sided grievance narrative l…
/r/MensRights31/08/20 07:39 PM
3

First of all MRA is by no means larger than feminism. And second this is a slippery slippery slope. It's what's led to feminist subs branding anyone disagreeing with the majoritarian view as misogynist, concern troll, MRA troll, MRA infiltrator etc. I'd rather not have MRA go the same way.
/r/MensRights31/08/20 07:13 PM
1

Thankyou for the recommendation. I didn't find anything in it that said that men are less than women though. It talks of women not having rights which should be granted to any human being. I don't disagree with that. The rights asked for are reasonable as well. They basically ask for basic legal human rights that men already enjoyed. Can you specify a particular point you disagreed with? Also you have still ignored my whole essay on why extremist movements still need to be engaged with no matter…
/r/MensRights31/08/20 06:51 PM
1

Haha because this is as much an identity based group as the feminist's :P people aren't used to rational dissent. But thankyou for the acknowledgement. One person acknowledging the point is enough for me.
/r/MensRights31/08/20 06:45 PM
3

Haha sure bro. Whatever floats your boat.
/r/MensRights31/08/20 05:25 PM
6

True based contrarian. I can respect that. Just be consistent in the attitude.
/r/MensRights31/08/20 02:18 PM
6

Thanks mate. Sanity checks are my specialty :D
/r/MensRights31/08/20 12:21 PM
-1

"Read what the first wave feminists said" Got any recommendations? To be fair im sure there's a lot of misandrist material out there by prominent feminists. I have always argued that misandry is an inherent tendency within feminist theory/methods of activism/organisation of movement. Some level of continually reinforcing in-group bias is true of any identity based movement, it's just become ridiculously strong in the case of feminism. But on the other hand there are pretty unsavory sections of t…
/r/MensRights31/08/20 12:08 PM
22

Not everything's an agenda mate. Some things are just a result of natural bias building up over time.
/r/MensRights31/08/20 12:01 PM
-1

"How would you reform a movement that has been anti-male since its inception?" I dont think that has ever been the majority MRA view. Most literature I have encountered doesn't consider women suffragists asking for voting rights to be inherently misandrist. Most seem to agree that the most virulent wave of misandry is associated with the feminism of the 1970s(which lost within feminism) and has seen a resurgence and now domination with the current inter-sectional feminists. That being said. Even…
/r/MensRights31/08/20 11:34 AM
7

It's a natural consequence of mainstreaming. Larger feminist subs are also often filled with similar questions about why there are so many "undercover misogynists" who have infiltrated feminism and are concern trolling the "real feminists". In reality, as movements become more mainstream, more members from the center start to join as well. Now it's upto MRA if they want to take the feminazi route and label everyone who doesn't think that feminism is beyond reform as a "feminist infiltrator", or …
/r/MensRights31/08/20 11:09 AM
2

"I really dont think we're disagreeing with each other but rather misunderstanding one another." You're partially right. It seems like we aren't exactly disagreeing because I agree with much of feminist theory. I disagree with certain structural definitions because in my opinion they are unfair and tend the whole system towards misandry - and this hurts both men and women. So in a manner of speaking yes. We do agree. But at the same time. We don't. One such disagreement would the be definition o…
/r/MensRights31/08/20 10:41 AM
16

I downvoted because it reinforces a dismissive attitude of mental health. There may be a million reasons why will doesn't respond in a more forceful manner. You don't know his life. It's possible as many have implied below that he had an open marriage but just couldn't emotionally deal with it's repercussions. Regardless of why he's suffering. We should still show him some compassion.
/r/MensRights31/08/20 10:34 AM
3

I'm not trying to be relevant. I'm trying to sensible. Clearly thats impossible in any conversation with either of you. I'm glad you got to meet your feminist mirror image though. Have fun. "Flock off and join that idiot with their misandry." Incase you didn't notice. I'm pointing out feminism's misandry to them. Notice how they only reply to you and not me? Because responding to me would take actual effort. In you they seem to see a kindred soul with whom they can trade some simple online insul…
/r/MensRights31/08/20 10:24 AM
8

"You are aware that the women are the maginalized and opressed ones right?" Oppression Olympics alert. Both groups can be benefited. Your presentation of feminist focus being an "either or" between men's issues and women's issues is false. You are biased. And will continue to be so. Feminism is an excuse for you to justify your bias, not a cause. Edit: We have plenty of your kind in MRA too. The person you are arguing with being a prime example. It's a type of person. Not the positions they hold…
/r/MensRights31/08/20 10:07 AM
6

Sure. It's still continuing. I never said that it had stopped. You missed my point. My point was that the long past of the still continuing inequality shouldn't be used to justify a lopsided response to men's problems or minimise them. As you did here: "no one has given a fuck about their feelings for a few millennia means that they have bigger fish to fry than men's feelings right now" Anti-Semitism hasn't ended either. That doesn't give israelis the right to not care about the palestinian's "f…
/r/MensRights31/08/20 09:56 AM
10

That's false. Past inequality doesn't automatically allow you to justify excesses in the present. That's the logic Hitler used against the Jews. And Israel and it's lobbyists are using today for their actions against Palestinians. It's a worrying pattern, not a justification. Sure toxic masculinity plays a part. But reducing the issue to only toxic masculinity is reductionist, unhelpful and indicative of bad faith dismissal.
/r/MensRights31/08/20 09:17 AM
7

Thanks man. No worries. Just doing my job :D
/r/MensRights31/08/20 09:12 AM
11

Friendly pointer. Don't argue with this person. They aren't capable of constructive engagement. But to answer your question. Just because a system claims to be something doesn't automatically make it so. Stalinist ussr also claimed to be the most egalitarian truly free society in the world. That didn't make it one. In reality most theoretical models seek to strive towards a theoretical utopia. The system's performance is then judged by how closely the resultant real-world system that results fro…
/r/MensRights31/08/20 09:09 AM
18

Hey. Don't take this the wrong way, but you sound like the other side of the same coin to me. You're dehumanising and dismissing a whole group of people based on the actions of a small subset. Look around this thread. Really. Look around. There are maybe two or three people who support this commenters beliefs. There are more people pointing out bias against women/feminists, than there are people criticising feminists or being hostile. The 3rd and 4th most upvoted comments on this thread are peop…
/r/MensRights31/08/20 08:28 AM
3

Thank-you for striving for balance and neutrality. That's the real struggle in today's society.
/r/MensRights31/08/20 08:00 AM
5

Nor is anyone bringing them. I'm just pointing out in-group bias. Just saying you shouldnt be biased in excess doesn't make one an automatic feminist. Thats what feminazis do. And you're beginning to sound eerily familiar.
/r/MensRights31/08/20 07:53 AM
11

"completely stealing the spotlight from those who are actually oppressed." Feminists started the oppression Olympics. And you're trying to win by taking part in it. I say the whole system is rotten. The more you talk. The more you mirror feminists. I'm not asking you for respect. Just telling you what you are.
/r/MensRights31/08/20 07:23 AM
10

Its all good. Identity politics breeds in-group/out-group bias. I got banned from r/feminism for pointing out their biases in exactly this manner. So I know its the same everywhere. Its natural human group bias. We just have to be willing to call it out wherever we see it. If enough people do. It stays in control. Also I dont think it has nothing to do with feminism. It does have to do with feminism. They've contributed to the strengthening of this double standard partially. Im just against attr…
/r/MensRights31/08/20 07:06 AM
7

I didn't call you the same because you hate women and feminists hate men. I called you the same because you're both reductionists. Your patterns of behavior in terms of how you deal with dissent and nuance are the same.
/r/MensRights31/08/20 07:03 AM
8

Hahaha. It has to be taken seriously mate. Some times at-least.
/r/MensRights31/08/20 06:58 AM
-9

No. Not everything men go through is solely connected with feminism. Feminism has misandrist and biased currents. But it doesn't have a monopoly on the causes of male suffering. The world is a complex system with multiple factors for everything. I dont see any difference between people like you and extreme feminists. You both hate each other. But you are the same.
/r/MensRights31/08/20 06:57 AM
43

Britney too. Bottomline. Have compassion ffs.
/r/MensRights31/08/20 06:37 AM
19

Let's not bring feminism into this. The memers arent feminists. I'd say more members of MRA might have used this meme, than the other way around. Use this moment to understand the pain of your fellow humans. Not to turn this into a anti-feminist shit-fest.
/r/MensRights31/08/20 06:36 AM
0

Full fledged hospitals were the worst spreaders during corona, considering that those full fledged hospitals were full with full fledged corona patients.
/r/MensRights13/08/20 06:14 PM
2

she explained that she would have to go a larger central hospital for that. Which im willing trust her hesitation in. Given that I havent taken my adhd meds in 2 months for a similar reason.
/r/MensRights13/08/20 03:30 PM
-5

We can't make that assumption. Even while posting here the op has made it sound like the guy "just" wanted a paternity test. The guy wanted an in-utero paternity test. That's a hell of a difference. And also does have valid medical risks which give her a valid right to refuse taking it.
/r/MensRights13/08/20 02:29 PM
1

İt does. There's no arguing with that. İt's a movement for women, by women. All the ones who say feminism fights for equality of both genders are Facebook feminists. Pretty much all serious feminists deny that claim and actively claim to only represent women.
/r/MensRights08/08/20 06:29 PM
4

Thank-you for replying in such a careful manner. i always appreciate it when I can tell that the other person isnt just focusing on what they're saying but also how they're saying it. İt's a lost art these days. You're right on the money. İt is that sub. İ just didn't want to name them so as to not cause a huge inflow of people into there. I understand your point about why that sub might particularly be less strict about censoring. But then again I have to say, the purpose of that group is for p…
/r/MensRights07/08/20 12:58 PM
0

Society is not at all moving in the right direction mate. İt's not about how any one particular group is worse/better off. İt's about how each group is unwilling to engage the other in rational dialogue. Sure men are being persecuted right now. İ agree with that. Feminism has gone overboard. Sure. But other groups, women included have been persecuted against much worse up untill the recent past. The world didn't end then, and it won't end now. What is different right now is the unprecedented fra…
/r/MensRights07/08/20 12:08 PM
1

That's precisely the point though. They don't consider this as putting "them" a class above men. İ disagree with them. But this is where a constructive engagement might help. İ did not think it was possible before, but it seems that it might be now.
/r/MensRights07/08/20 11:59 AM
1

Tbh r/feminism is a pretty censorious place. İ went there and spoke something in favor of feminism and got perma-banned. İ talked to the mods of another affiliated feminist group and they said these censorship policies are a relic of the time in the recent past where the sub was brigaded so badly that there were hardly any feminist posts at all. Because its most obviously accesible, it gets brigaded really easily and often to the point that it's almost dead at this point. r/MRA and r/feminism ha…
/r/MensRights07/08/20 11:36 AM
-2

Feminists have obviously done this. Just as MRA had done this to feminism as well. MRA as it stands in this sub is super balanced, but this sub is not representative of MRA as a whole. İf you go to the feminist subs and spend a bit of time there, you would find then to be surprisingly reasonable as well. Atleast the larger ones. İ would just advise you to not write and just lurk for a while. However neither the feminist sub I'm referring to nor the this sub is representative of their movements a…
/r/MensRights07/08/20 11:31 AM
-1

İ see the merit in his argument. But not all feminism is monolithic. I'll agree that the man-hating variety is the dominant one these days. But there's a huge breadth of views within feminism. Some which are borderline misandrist and others which are clearly not. The same breadth of opinion can be found in MRA too. As is natural of ANY social movement.
/r/MensRights07/08/20 11:27 AM
-5

That's the literal definition feminists use to justify their extreme views. "All the women who care about feminism are this who have been burned by the patriarchy" When will people understand that it is possible for both parties to have been damaged by a system in different way in different areas. Just because you suffered doesn't mean women also don't suffer, probably alot worse infact. So stop being petty and engage constructively instead of going to feminist forums and shouting at them about …
/r/MensRights07/08/20 11:25 AM
2

Not true. İ have been posting on the second largest and most active feminist sub for about three months, and have put pretty harsh views forth. İ only recently put forth that all of feminism has a problem with misandry. İ make sure to put forth my view politely and rationally without including any vitriol and making it clear that I'm open to changing my view when presented with something compelling. İ haven't been accused of mansplaining a single time. Most of the time i have been given detailed…
/r/MensRights07/08/20 11:15 AM
4

Honestly. This point is sensible. İf there's literally 40 people accusing you of something. And there's no one coming out to defend you on those. İt's a reasonable assumption to make that something is indeed wrong.
/r/MensRights06/07/20 09:55 PM
1

Interesting. Never knew about this. I'll look into it more. Thankyou! Do you know of any interesting cases where this strategy was used?
/r/MensRights04/07/20 09:08 PM
1

Ah yes then it makes sense! Sorry for the miscommunication!
/r/MensRights04/07/20 03:56 PM
1

Exactly.
/r/MensRights04/07/20 02:27 PM
21

Agreed. It's not all women. It's unfair laws. Keep your eye on the sight. Men and women are split equally between the two political parties. We need positive awareness of these issues. And enough public support to pull a political party to include support for these issues. We don't need to fight women. We need to fight the system.
/r/MensRights04/07/20 02:26 PM
1

How would you argue for a change in the law. When the court isn't authorised to change the law in the first place? The court does not have the authority to mend laws. Only the legislature can do that. As the judge points out. As unfair as it seems, its simply how the system is structured. Of-course you can start a popular movement. And force the legislature to amend the law. In which case, if the case hasn't ended yet, the man would be able to make use of it.
/r/MensRights04/07/20 01:55 PM
0

That's an incredibly dark view to take. Why would a democratic party (that takes in millions and billions from private corporations and big banks) want to impose a system that would eliminate those private corporations and big banks. I mean if you talk about "draining the swamp". True hardcore communists wouldn't just drain the swamp. They would line up everyone in the swamp and shoot them in the head. I don't understand how anyone can think of the two groups as being aligned.
/r/MensRights04/07/20 12:16 PM
2

Where do I imply that in my comment?
/r/MensRights04/07/20 12:10 PM
2

Exactly. That is exactly what I said. But my point reads slightly as if I'm critical of trump (even though, personal politics aside, i say nothing of the sort in the comment itself) so I'm being herd downvoted. İronic. And this sub thinks feminists are sheeple. Sheesh. We all the same. Humans. Cognitive biases same in any grouping: 80% sheeple(conformists), 10% contrarian, 10% who actually understand anything.
/r/MensRights04/07/20 12:10 PM
0

That would require a seperate case. You can't argue for a change in the law itself, during a trial that is being judged according to that law. You are more than welcome to launch a case on exactly these grounds. İ really feel like you should. This is how the movement moves forward in a constitutional manner.
/r/MensRights04/07/20 12:00 PM
1

No worries. Miscommunication can always happen!
/r/MensRights04/07/20 11:58 AM
1

Read what i wrote again. Don't think you understood it. My point was exactly that women DİD vote for trump. Why i have no idea. But they did.
/r/MensRights04/07/20 12:19 AM
-3

To be fair if women were such a monolithic, imposing voting block. Trump would never have won in the US. Edit: İ don't understand why i am being downvoted. The OP said that politicians pander to women by supporting feminist policies even though these policies are unfair. Because it gives them a electoral advantage. All I'm saying is that if women voted along gender lines, to support parties that favored them at men's expense, Trump would never have won. Because all the women would have supported…
/r/MensRights03/07/20 05:56 PM
6

This sounds like a witchhunt. I'll pass. In any such situation where one gender is treated better than the other by authorities (and thus one gender is disadvantaged), I would insist on statistical studies rather than anecdotal evidence. That's not because I dont think men are not disadvantaged anywhere. Its because i dont under-estimate the biological significance of selection bias. I have seen it ruin too many legitimate movements. Extremist feminists being one, but it runs deep in many many o…
/r/MensRights03/07/20 03:02 PM
1

Definitely definitely agree.
/r/MensRights02/07/20 11:34 AM
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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