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mewacketergi2 Archive

View 8 posts and 830 comments by mewacketergi2 on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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4

You're doing great, thank you.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/06/25 09:10 PM
4

Hi. I love your content. Are you the guy who used to blog as the TinMen, or is this new blood?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/06/25 06:20 PM
1

In my opinion, this man can choose to live the rest of his life feeling traumatized and resentful. While that would be deeply unfortunate, it's his choice. His trauma doesn't necessarily lead to negative consequences for others. Not everything has to be part of an ideology or a movement.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/02/25 06:34 AM
1

I would love for r/LWMA to be more intellectually sophisticated, but this isn't realistic on Reddit.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/02/25 08:37 AM
3

I’m afraid he’s here to deliver a sermon, not to engage in a debate.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/02/25 07:32 PM
27

Wait. If true, why do you find it helpful to target us? If the men's movement is well-organized compared to institutional feminism, I could learn more about it. You cut them a lot of slack. Aren't we an underdog who is more deserving of getting a break? You appear to judge LWMA more harshly than mainstream feminism with all its NGOs, academics, journalists, lobbyists, and hundreds of millions of dollars in government programs funded with men's tax money. I would like to understand why. ETA: I do…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/02/25 08:58 AM
16

You come off as a disgruntled feminist, not a men's advocate. If the statement above feels invalid, perhaps you should reflect on your priorities. It could help to worry less about making your views backwards-compatible with mainstream feminism, like the 'slib does, and worry more about helping men. Your rhetoric in this thread relies on blank slatism (socially constructed gender differences, "men and women are essentially the same"). It comes off as dismissive of men's suffering and comfortable…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/02/25 08:28 AM
29

Should learn about hypo and hyperagency. You blame men way too much.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/02/25 11:13 PM
1

Thank you.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/01/25 09:57 AM
1

Your argument implies that there is a workable alternative that men can choose to pick at any point in history. And they choose not to. To exaggerate for the sake of argument: If only a Neanderthal man had been a 'slib moderator and had read some Michael Kimmel, he would have turned out differently. I think gender role choice is more like Nash's Equilibrium. It is a stable, lousy situation, like a prisoner's dilemma, but with more people. It can change, but only when (a) most members of society …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/01/25 09:56 AM
2

Please don't follow feminist "everything is socially constructed" propaganda. Men of the past didn't act like they did because they were "taught to." They litearlly did what they have to survive.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/01/25 09:43 PM
2

Women aren't evil robots. They followed what the environment and nature demanded. You should be focusing on the lag: in evolved societies, female preferences didn't change when the environment did.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/01/25 09:42 PM
2

That's right. Probably better to die. ETA: Let me clarify the implication in my initial comment to minimize confusion. We descended from men who didn't believe that survival and procreation were for the weak.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/01/25 01:17 PM
7

It depends on the kind of society you live in. In a bad enough world, traditional masculinity is often the statistically best behavioral pattern for men. In modern countries, not so much.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/01/25 08:01 AM
-1

What does the term "supremacist" mean, according to the way you argue? Please find it in the Merriam-Webster dictionary. Dictionaries are good. This term has a dictionary meaning that does directly apply to white supremacism but does not directly apply to mainstream feminism. You are using this term with a meaning that you have invented. Doing so makes it way too easy for anybody, who is not a member of your in-group, to disprove you. You are articulating your position with the same mistake as a…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/01/25 09:28 AM
1

We had that conversation before. Agree to disagree.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/01/25 12:56 AM
11

Feminism worked. Right until it didn't. Then it worked in the opposite direction.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/01/25 06:08 PM
27

He's great.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/12/24 06:26 PM
1

Absolutely. Are you rich enough to never worry about survival anymore? Good, then you can start having existential crises about the meaning of life.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/12/24 12:09 AM
2

To continue, u/wussabee50, I may or may not have been successful, but I was trying to play nice here. I believe that your desire to help men is neither declarative, low-energy, short-lived, or self-serving like that of other feminists. After all, third-world feminism is something very different from what happens in the USA. For example, how many Western feminists, do you think, are aligned with your goal of removing the "women are wonderful" thing when it directly benefits them? Doing this is su…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/12/24 12:01 AM
2

Hello and welcome, u/wussabee50. We all sincerely wish you luck, but we have low expectations. I can explain why as one of this community's more long-lived and academically-inclined regulars. To begin with, I would love to be proven wrong on all of this. Historically, principled feminists who tried what you describe were always (a) rare, (b) outliers, and (c) got in trouble with their tribe, which usually led to (d) loss of institutional support. I can personally name maybe 2-3 prominent feminis…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/12/24 11:48 PM
1

No, I don't think so. Traditional gender roles are only obsolete for privileged urban professionals in WEIRD societies. That's Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich, and Democratic. Also known as the First World. The reason traditional gender roles for men are still around is because we as a society haven't really gotten rid of them in terms of our responses. This shift is not arbitrary. It happens after a certain level of technological, economic, and scientific progress nudges a society to re…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/12/24 08:12 PM
2

This is an excellent thread. Thank you, @Both_Relationship_62.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/03/24 11:46 AM
1

I was being metaphorical. I agree with you in a way. Still, "egalitarianism" is veeeeeery far away from the Overton Window for an average person in the US or Europe.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/12/23 08:00 PM
1

It's cute, but sadly, nobody outside of Reddit knows what that is.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/12/23 09:46 PM
5

I know no universally accepted label for a given feminist being less toxic and doctrinaire than average. If there were one, it would help to talk about this problem better.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/12/23 01:12 PM
12

The term "emotional labor" seems defined by feminist-leaning discourse. No surprise if its usage is skewed to the preferences of women.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/12/23 01:37 AM
1

Hey OP, u/ubijbucy. This is a common question. Are you familiar with hypoallergenic cat or dog breeds? The 'slib is like that, but for gender discourse. If you follow my metaphor, it is like an odd-looking cat selectively bred to minimize the owner's allergic reaction to its dander. The 'slib may not be the healthiest, prettiest, or friendliest critter around, but at least the liberal feminist establishment isn't going to throw it out on the street because it makes them itch. They mean well, but…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/09/23 04:51 PM
2

False accusations of rape are caused by reasons similar to false accusations of any other crime. Sadly, with such a touchy subject, the handling is very different. Additionally, you may be surprised to know that the FBI estimate that false accusations happen at about the same rate, between 4 and 10%, let's say 6%. This is comparable to other crimes.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/08/23 01:32 AM
1

That is quite a story. Thank you for sharing. I wish you happiness.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/08/23 09:08 PM
1

Their protest is essentially first-wave feminism. According to Camille Paglia, it was the last wave of American feminism to have no misandry :)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/07/23 09:25 PM
37

Dear /u/TheTinMenBlog, Like many people here, I value you as a content creator. I will not even try to figure out what happened behind the scenes. I doubt it matters whether you or the "old mod team" were in the right. I want to take this opportunity and share one crucial detail with you. To be a good moderator in online gender discourse, one must have a high emotional pain tolerance, a stomach for juvenile drama, and a weird sense of nobility about those weird food fights that we constantly get…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/07/23 09:59 PM
1

Is your heart truly gone? Wonderful. I beg you, immediately consult a nearby research hospital! You may be an essential proof-of-concept. A fully functioning human being without a heart? Oh, the endless possibilities! Your case can lead to breakthroughs in cardiovascular health. You, I mean you, you could save a billion lives. Please. Do it now, do it for science. On a more serious note. How old are you? Probably 20-25, like the majority of Reddit. Social change on the scale we discuss at r/LWMA…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/06/23 02:53 AM
1

I am not going to argue any of it. Most likely, you know more than I do about Reddit. Time will tell.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/06/23 02:39 AM
4

My friend, if you need to being a sentence using words "According to Rollo Tomassi," you must pause and reconsider your life choices.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/06/23 03:14 PM
3

This is a perfectly valid and legitimate choice. EDIT. I think you need to specify a contingency arrangement with u/2717192619192. If they step down, and the subreddit becomes effectively unmoderated, your plan goes back into effect.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/06/23 03:11 PM
1

Exactly. Reddit corporate cares about advertising revenue. A small community like ours drives an infinitesimal part of it. Consequently, we should focus on our own cause.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/06/23 03:11 PM
1

You can be like Tin Men, and do something useful. No matter how small, change is possible. You help no one by losing heart.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/06/23 03:09 PM
3

Hey, u/a-man-from-earth. It was a nice trip. Heartfelt thanks for your work here. I wish you good luck in your future endeavors! Per your question, I see no good options for r/LWMA here. No matter what we chose, Reddit was unique. It both platformed internet weirdos and had mainstream respectability. It is going to be an end of an era, like Tumblr banning porn. If we move to Mastodon or another niche site, it will look like "tEh MRAs wEnT .win," which will make us look like /r/The_Donald. What's…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/06/23 03:07 PM
1

Sensitivity increases male sex appeal with many, but not all women.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/01/23 11:24 PM
3

Anti-toxic-masculinity projects masquerade as progressive and equality-seeking. In reality, they turn our attention away from the structures of power that enable the worst and most widespread harms inflicted on people, such as war and economic brutality. In so doing, they make some of the most vulnerable men and boys, whom they purport to protect, objects of scrutiny and discipline. In other words, the most widespread forms of feminist activism are often practically useless, illiterate, and glos…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/11/22 11:52 AM
2

Good article. Provides supporting evidence that James Lindsay was right, and well-received criticism of feminism can only come from the inside. EDIT: Typo.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/11/22 11:12 AM
6

That.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/09/22 04:34 AM
14

If you are making this argument intending to convince, you are better off rephrasing. "While feminism was intended to be X, it often ends up doing Y for reasons Z1, Z2, and Z3. Its supporters often say it is still doing X, but I see this." You would probably want to bring less dated examples than Duluth, something like the APA story.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/09/22 12:27 AM
1

That is an abridged version for non-paying subscribers.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/09/22 06:04 PM
2

Do you have a full-text version of the article? It's behind the paywall and is showing only 3/7 stories.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/09/22 04:36 PM
3

Outright denying the existence of the issue being discussed (and invalidating OP's experiences to boot) is not a good starting point for a men's issues conversation.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/09/22 09:26 PM
10

Contrast the rhetoric of this "woman must do X because the world does Y" with how we, as a society, talk about "toxic masculinity," or any other problem created by men. This is nothing but hypo- and hyperagency.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/09/22 09:19 PM
6

It's a funny rhetorical trick. Many liberal feminists will tell you that they are "not that radical," as if pretending that all bad things about feminism neatly compartmentalize to a tiny minority of radfems. 😂😂😂
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/09/22 07:31 PM
2

It's exactly the issue that a lot of men's rights subreddits have. The difference is that the men's movement has had no institutional influence. It is a big one, so I tend to judge them less harshly. It is a newcomer versus incumbent situation. Feminists love to act like an underdog, but the reality is that they have been a big part of the establishment in the West for decades. I think you'd be very drawn to randomized controlled trials. I am a rationalist, so I know about that. No idea how to a…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/09/22 09:18 PM
3

There is a misplaced period: https://xkcd.com/1831/. Your post also reminded me of this: https://medium.com/civic-tech-thoughts-from-joshdata/so-you-want-to-reform-democracy-7f3b1ef10597. EDIT: You may also want to talk to the only surviving moderator of FeminismUncensored for an "other side" perspective. I cannot agree with her conclusion that the MRAs are akshually bad guys who ruin everything, but her grievances are not unfounded. Please do not mention my name, as she dislikes me a lot.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/09/22 08:41 PM
6

I see your point now.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/09/22 05:47 PM
8

I sincerely wish you good luck, OP. However, I am also highly skeptical that you can succeed. Without a thorough understanding of why "various subreddits" have problems, your stated mission is impossible. Every side of the issue here thinks that trolls are a problem. And wants to "solve" it through good moderation. In reality, trolls are often defined as "people whose views I find objectionable." "Moderating" usually results in a failure state where: either (1) everyone who disagrees with mods' …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/09/22 05:44 PM
7

In his defense, Reddit have been giving those away for free recently.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/09/22 05:29 PM
1

At the risk of sounding trite: It is what it is. Society functions and treats men as it does. Some of it is biology, and some of it is not. It could not have been any other way in a traditional society. Anyway, we cannot pretend that we are the women's movement, and expect men to be treated the same way as women when we complain about our victimization. We can just adjust our rhetoric to maximize our odds of successfully advocating for our own. And also try our best to avoid repeating the femini…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/09/22 04:03 PM
1

Technically, it does count as bigotry. Sadly, most people living today will struggle to recognize it as such. Hopefully, you want to maximize your chances of convincing unaffiliated people to come to your side and not just sound vaguely morally accusatory. This is the point of my comment. It is about improving your rhetoric, not disputing your moral stances.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/09/22 03:45 PM
1

I would not call it "bigotry" in your shoes. You lose points rhetorically. It turns people away despite the superficial attractiveness of moral outrage terms.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/09/22 09:24 AM
3

"Bigotry" is the wrong way to look at it. It is an oversimplification. The principal-agent problem, conflict of interest, and measurement manipulation are prominent topics in organizational psychology and finance. It is taken as an axiom that when you set KPIs to measure the effectiveness of people in an organization, they immediately start manipulating these metrics to benefit themselves, do less work, and get compensated more. Yet, for some reason, women and feminists running gender studies fo…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/08/22 02:02 PM
5

Men's unpaid labor is grossly under-counted here. For example, we need to count putting up with crap like this misandrist propaganda as "unpaid work." 😂😂😂
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/08/22 06:39 PM
1

Copy regarding overwhelm, it's kind of the same here. I'll read this again when I can think straight.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/08/22 07:55 PM
1

P.S. https://rd.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11109-022-09812-3
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/08/22 10:06 AM
1

They definitely do some immediate good, and yes, in does strengthen a morally bankrupt organized religion-like ideology in the long run.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/08/22 01:36 PM
1

Grassroots.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/08/22 01:32 PM
1

That's institutional and political feminists you are talking about, not the grassroots movements. Those maybe do more good than harm, even in the First World.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/08/22 01:20 PM
1

I agree with you later point. Today, our grassroots wing probably outnumbers theirs. It is still wrong to discount them entirely.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/08/22 04:22 AM
2

I don't disagree entirely. I see two weaknesses in your argument: we have not that many men's activists on the streets, plus enough feminists do offline grassroots activism too.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/08/22 09:08 PM
2

The two are not at all similar. Which as you describe, leads to very dissimilar methods of communication. You are correct! Unfortunately, this is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, our side of the issue stands to benefit from a bit of white-collar refinement. Conversely, casual offline feminists must deal with real-life problems before preaching online.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/08/22 04:26 AM
1

Not much to say about this. We can only do a better job ourselves.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/08/22 09:07 PM
3

AskFeminists is much, much worse than an average offline casual feminist. I wouldn't take it as a good proxy indicator of anything. EDIT: It is funny though. In my experience, this sort who rambles about "manosphere" and "manosphere-lite" as a synonym of universal misogynistic evil online also abhors seeing feminism as monolithic.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/08/22 06:21 PM
1

No worries about misunderstandings. I'll try to make a more detailed reply later. Please feel free to send that link you've mentioned.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/08/22 06:28 AM
1

...which miiiight reasonably be considered as an explanation to the exceptional thoroughness. Lindsay broke down the influences of post-mo thinking on feminist epistemology. The analysis was uncompromisingly good, and this is the only reason why I brought him up. I don't remember him being vocal about topics that alarm you when I followed him closely. He did say something stupid about the Covid-19 vaccine mandates, which I disagreed with. Then I stopped paying attention to his other political op…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/08/22 05:54 PM
2

Especially considering there are plenty of people formulating critics of feminist ideology and political actions without the inflammatory langage or the conspiracy-adjacent logic. If you know other criticisms of the current thinking on gender that are as thorough and systematic as Lindsay's Why No One Cares About Feminist Theory (https://quillette.com/2018/01/02/no-one-cares-feminist-theory), I'll be thrilled to read them! Please share. I concede the point about provocation, even if it is not a …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/08/22 03:20 PM
2

It applies to first and second wave tho. I agree that the bitterness, resentment, and superstitious religiosity started to compound with the second wave. The meaning of feminism itself also shifted closer to "empower at all costs until we get equality of outcome" rather than "different but equal in dignity" or "equal rights and opportunities." ...have now forcefully shifted to conservative advocacy, with quoted James Lindsey going as far as endorsing Trump in 2020. I disagree with Lindsay's endo…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/08/22 01:21 PM
2

There's another interesting parallel. You say: I don’t believe it’s interesting to engage with irrefutable statements on the ground of rationality or truth statements. People bend their beliefs to their interests, we all do to some extend I reckon. As such, I prefer to focus my advocacy on effects, under the assumption that it’s easier to change the motivation for a belief than the belief itself. I’m not really bothered by people believing nonsense, as long as there’s no harm in it now or down t…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/08/22 05:31 AM
2

I'll try to make a more serious reply to your political and philosophical points later. However, has anybody ever told you that the birds aren't real? Just now, I realized that my post-feminist position has many parallels. I think that feminism, the way it is commonly conceptualized, neither currently exists nor existed in the recent past.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/08/22 05:05 AM
1

That's a very interesting story. Good to know that academic rigor survives despite the odds.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/08/22 04:28 AM
3

Thank you for your extended response. I'll try to isolate your key points, and guess where our disagreements are. Let me know if I err in this. That being said, I think you underestimate the importance of the intertwining between feminism and the more general human rights/humanist progressive movement. How do you figure that this intertwining is a genuine achievement? Of course, feminism accomplished some humanitarian goals. Yet, doesn't any powerful and successful movement become entangled with…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/08/22 02:46 AM
1

I agree with you that mensrights is petty, bitter, and unprofessional, among many other things, but they're also hurting. Thier pain really IS not being heard. I definitely agree with that. But I needed to try and be neutral for this metaphor to work.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/08/22 02:09 AM
1

I will repeat what I, and hopefully many other men's advocates, have told you already: "An eye for an eye is not a good discourse tactic for an aspiring civil leader. It helps to rise above your opponents. Yours is not an approach that made figures like Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela, or any other civic reform leader effective in the past. It includes the feminists who successfully convinced their opponents – they talked to some pretty reprehensible and misguided people to get them to change…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/08/22 12:49 AM
1

Maybe I should have used a different Soho Forum discussion. My point here was that conversations like this don't really exist online. This conversation was an isolated phenomenon, and even then, it was mostly held to convince the public, not the other speaker.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/22 11:52 PM
1

It means a debate space like this: https://www.thesohoforum.org/michael-kimmel-vs-cathy-young EDIT: Before you say that it's insignificant, look up who Kimmel is.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/22 11:36 PM
1

Maybe. But it feels even less possible than non-tribal general political discussion. Plus, in politics, you have a lot of "elite neutral meeting grounds," whereas in gender discourse, we have none.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/22 11:29 PM
1

You are correct. At their worst, feminists can act and do act as you describe here. I must also cheerfully congratulate you on an ironic achievement. Recently, I had a feminist whom I won't name complain that you successfully emulated the nastiest bits of her movement's past activism tactics. She complained that online, you coalition-build, get high on moral self-righteousness, and then parse dissenters and critics as moral enemies, proceeding to shame them relentlessly. I only regret that the i…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/22 11:19 PM
8

Thanks. I see your point now.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/22 10:39 PM
4

Hey, so I took a second look at your comment with fresh eyes. People here recognise that men suffer from an empathy exo-group bias which most likely results in altogether a difficulty to advocate for oneself, to ally with others to advocate for shared interests and to reach other people on the grounds of empathy. I am not sure what you mean exactly. I know that men (a) get less empathy from others, (b) are less likely to remain in the men's movement after solving their problems, (c) have less in…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/22 10:36 PM
30

Sex is normally seen as a part of healthy, well-rounded life. What is their suggested alternative to treating ED?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/22 10:18 PM
2

That's something interesting that I didn't know about! Thanks.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/22 08:11 PM
4

How mass market do you think good faith is, when in the most reaching-across-the-tribe-divide discourse people often interpret the discourse tactics of the other tribe as "bad faith?"
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/22 05:49 PM
6

Not necessarily the loudest. Some spaces are dominated by the most devout, like that extremely online guy in MensLib who posts half of their links. Where would effective moderation come from, a strong AI that really likes gender debates? :P I don't know what to say about Truth and Reconciliation. I think I didn't catch what you meant. Regardless, I think loudness is a matter of scale, some spaces tone it down, while others amplify it.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/22 05:46 PM
2

Yep.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/22 05:37 PM
13

Out of curiosity, let me ask you this. Did the class include any inconvenient facts like how most men in the WWI era couldn't vote and that suffragettes campaigned only for the white upper-class women?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/22 06:41 AM
15

My personal theory is that feminism actively evolved to weaponize conservative men's chivalry and empathy towards women.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/22 06:24 AM
11

In the West, the status quo incumbents are tradcons and feminists. Those two play off each other really well, though.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/22 06:11 AM
2

Please let me RSVP after I make my first few billion, ha-ha.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/22 06:10 AM
2

This is interesting. I'll read this deeper when I wake up.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/22 05:32 AM
3

Agreed.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/22 03:25 AM
5

Amen to that! I always wanted to become a shadowy billionaire recluse that rules the world from behind the cover of a network of philanthropic organizations. EDIT: /s
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/22 03:15 AM
8

Interrupt me if you heard this before. In Buddhism, the central disagreement between big, established sects is this: "Is Enlightenment possible only on an individual level, like a personal journey, or on the group level too, in monasteries and classes?" We are talking about the same thing here. Are these conversations that cross the tribe divide a rare blessing, or can we build an intellectual culture which can take it to the mass market?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/22 03:10 AM
5

I see you are running with "no, it is not." I should have clarified that by "mainstream," I imply something systematic that we can replicate, not a fantastic but rare occurrence. EDIT: Not coincidentally, I also mentally model mainstream feminism of our day as a bloated organized religion that operates on constant Faustian bargaining. It further erodes its intended principles but maintains its power base and institutional influence.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/22 02:58 AM
2

Thanks.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/22 02:21 AM
1

I'll try to get feedback from one more friend before posting, then fire it up.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/22 01:44 AM
1

Sure, I could do that. Is that your only remark?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/22 01:41 AM
1

I responded with a story. Let me know what I missed, and I'll make it into a post, as I think this could be a source of good conversation.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/22 01:22 AM
1

You may find this comment relevant: https://www.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/wnhshg/comment/ikbs5ab/
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/22 01:22 AM
7

FeminismUncensored in its original form is dead. It was meant as a place for the discussion of gender equality, inclusive of the men's gender issues, free of the stifling censorship, tribalism, and orthodox dogmatist typical of other established (pro)feminist spaces. A lot like what feminism was meant to be, a liberation movement before it became politically corrupted, religiously intolerant, bitter, tribalistic, indifferent to the pain of others, and ANGRY, ANGRY, ANGRY. This was a value offeri…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/22 01:21 AM
9

Maybe he got happily married after one date?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/22 03:35 AM
1

Poor MensLib can't get a break.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/22 03:25 AM
13

"Bargaining with the patriarchy" bit always sounded a bit funny to me. Isn't that what each and every one of us is doing until we arrive at a perfect utopia: just being an adult, accepting that the world is an imperfect place, and seeing how you can survive and prosper in it?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/08/22 03:09 AM
1

Here's a quote from the fictional book titled The Seventy Maxims of Maximally Effective Mercenaries: "The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more. No less."
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/08/22 02:23 AM
5

Are you familiar with the term "regulatory capture?" Your OP title is a textbook example of what regulatory capture is.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/08/22 02:17 AM
2

There are no alternative terms that are immune to slander, mischaracterization or abuse.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/08/22 02:13 AM
2

Here are some ideas. Some of this worked for me. Expose yourself to positive messages to internalize. Eat better and exercise, putting you in a more positive mental state overall. Join a supportive all-male group (or group therapy talk) where people with similar experiences discuss things. Help someone less privileged than yourself, which helps you put things in perspective, making what ails you hurt less. Maybe join a group along the lines of a church or a secular alternative that helps people …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/08/22 02:11 AM
5

That's not a good criticism.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/08/22 11:41 PM
3

There's an explicit warning given in the introduction to Warren Farrel's The Myth of Male Power, cautioning the reader against trying to discuss these findings with a feminist. He says, and I'm loosely paraphrasing, "Although feminists are the ones also talking about gender roles, don't count on finding sympathy and understanding there." Can anyone help me find this exact quote?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/08/22 09:47 PM
1

That's a good point. Feminist theory has no "construct validity testing" stage.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/07/22 01:37 PM
6

The fantasy starts by imagining that gender is socially constructed, then you can do this modern-day social alchemy.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/07/22 01:36 PM
1

That's not supposed to happen.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/06/22 11:16 AM
1

Must have missed it. Sorry!
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/06/22 02:23 PM
1

Maybe pin this post to give it an air of officiousness?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/06/22 11:42 PM
29

I think you got it all backwards. This organization isn't solving a real problem. Doubt they even care. Instead, its key people are likely catapulting themselves into the spotlight and grasping for relevance by exploiting the gender empathy gap. It's often used to dehumanize or demonize men. On the flip side, it can also galvanize and consolidate people around any problem by saying though exploiting the overabundance of empathy we have towards women. So, you say that X is a scary gender issue th…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/06/22 06:05 PM
25

It's not so easy to sabotage a condom without anyone noticing. Then, even at 18, you rarely get pregnant on the first try. So prepare for the worst, sure. But don't give up yet.
/r/MensRights21/06/22 10:25 PM
33

I highly doubt pregnancy works like this. Stay calm, get a lawyer, and get a paternity test.
/r/MensRights21/06/22 10:17 PM
2

I am volunteering in Ukraine right now, and I'm literally trying to tell you that it's the reason why Istanbul Convention was ratified now, despite the reservations.
/r/MensRights21/06/22 09:50 PM
1

If only you had evidence to justify your claims. If.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/06/22 09:11 PM
6

I like this take: https://medium.com/arc-digital/almost-everything-you-know-about-gamergate-is-wrong-c4a50a3515fb Wish someone would write one like it about the 'slib, help put what we all feel into words.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/06/22 06:58 PM
7

Good luck!
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/06/22 06:03 PM
18

Don't. They are literally adding a rule that bans "unconstructive criticism" of feminism. Obviously, interpretation of the part in brackets is left entirely at the mods' discretion, you bigoted misogynistic swine. Link: https://np.reddit.com/r/MensLib/comments/v986n4/200k_men_would_rather_reignite_a_mens_liberation/
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/06/22 06:03 PM
2

Communication is hard, but possible if one makes it a point to be less tribalist and stereotyping.
/r/MensRights21/06/22 05:57 PM
2

I'm giving you a chance to learn and be a better communicator on this topic. Whether you want to learn and be better is up to you, though.
/r/MensRights21/06/22 05:32 PM
3

An overabundance of really stupid inegalitarian, ultra-conservative criticisms of the Istanbul Convention was their reason. And when I say "really stupid," I mean it. You ought to be careful to avoid getting lumped in with that bunch.
/r/MensRights21/06/22 04:28 PM
3

Ukraine ratified the Istanbul Convention to become an EU Candidate State. It was a requirement. That is all there is to it.
/r/MensRights21/06/22 04:26 PM
27

How did feminism pull ahead? It skilfully exploited everything that culturally disadvantages men in traditional societies and everything that benefits women in biological differences between the sexes. Let's see. Does traditional society care about women's pain more than men's? Lots of checks. They turned that into a political weapon. By erasing men's victimization and making male pain and suffering invisible, feminism made every issue you can think of "gendered" around women. Does anyone in a "…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/06/22 06:21 AM
4

Aspirational masculinity? That silly woman is going to try and re-invent Renaissance 🤣
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/06/22 05:41 AM
12

Ban men called Michael from men's and gender studies, see if the field instantly becomes less misandric. Let's try this.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/06/22 09:38 AM
6

I am not comfortable with how you are arguing this point, but yes, the social sciences academia going into its own theology-like fantasy land is a problem.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/06/22 09:36 AM
4

He made amends and keeps on paddling.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/06/22 09:35 AM
16

I 100% agree with your analogy, but I'm not comfortable with your conclusions. Social sciences, yes, it's a big problem. But it's not the whole academia.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/06/22 11:20 PM
61

That site is not funny. It's scary. For context, this explosion of sheer, man-hating stupidity on the web is maintained by two extremely respectable men's studies and masculinities "scholars" in the feminist academia: Michael Kimmel and Michael Kaufman. Those two absolute frauds only survive because they are politically connected charlatans.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/06/22 10:12 PM
33

Let's brace ourselves for the peak stupid takes.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/06/22 02:41 PM
33

Heard: "It sets back the clock to a time when a woman who spoke up and spoke out could be publicly shamed and humiliated. It sets back the idea that violence against women is to be taken seriously." #BelieveWomen needs fact-checking built in against obvious sociopaths like this.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/06/22 08:02 PM
1

They are, however, very interested in validating each other's fears and insecurities through belittling, insulting and humiliating men who come to their subreddit. I think that's the real motivation why this space exists, which emerged after it was established. And then they victim-blame the visitors for this abuse. The "ask" thing is just a pretense. EDIT: Actually, no. This line of thinking is wrong. It's a side-effect, not an intention. However, it's happening so much, that it's 50% of what t…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/06/22 02:57 PM
3

Anyways, look... If you don't like my metaphor, that's fine. However, if you use it as an excuse to avoid addressing the message behind the metaphor, which is that: Equity feminism, as well as genuine egalitarianism, was always a minority position within feminism. Today, it's extinct in the wild. Discuss the achievements of feminism while ignoring the harm/negative externalities of its advocacy and opportunity costs is intellectually dishonest. It is a position not made any less dishonest by say…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/06/22 02:42 PM
1

And now you think I'm deliberately misinterpreting your position? Yes, thank you for bearing with me. And then you compared that to chicken pox genocide, industrial revolution child exploitation, slavery, coal burning and rape. All of these things were effective solutions to real military, business, economic, or military problems that needed solving. Don't you like solving problems? I'm all for solving ALL problems when they occur! P.S. I'll take a look at the book later.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/05/22 10:43 PM
2

Let me clarify then - I also see feminism addressing inequality that applies to women as being legitimate and morally sound. I think you are deliberately misinterpreting my position to spite me. I don't see gains that feminism made as legitimate, if they come at this price.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/05/22 10:35 PM
3

Serial killers/rapists, school shooters, Trump supporters, and every other example of cosmic evil is not affiliated with the men's movement in any way. Unless they explicitly self-identified so. EDIT: Pause for a minute and ask yourself, what caused you to assume otherwise? Spoiler: That's a popular trope of feminist propaganda, which they got away with unchallenged due to their media dominance.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/05/22 10:18 PM
17

The original events were relatable to men's issues. Later on, everyone projected their culture war topics on GamerGate so, so much, and in such an ugly way that I personally wouldn't touch it anymore. EDIT: I shouldn't have opened that Wikipedia article. It was so badly written, so partisan and biased, that it made my head hurt. Dear OP, read this for a summary: https://medium.com/arc-digital/almost-everything-you-know-about-gamergate-is-wrong-c4a50a3515fb
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/05/22 10:15 PM
4

Sorry for the late response. Life got in the way. There is a lot I could say to your comment, so I'll focus on a few key messages that resonated the most with me. 1. You say: Where I differ from some people on this sub is that there are some who think that ALL feminists are Gender Feminists (when I think they are only a subset). Why do I only hear about "gender feminism" when an old equality feminist, like Erin Pizzey, is struggling to explain what went horribly wrong in her movement decades ago…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/05/22 10:12 PM
6

Halfway through the assignment, if I were the kid, I'd try to amuse myself by turning it on itself by questioning the validity of feminist theories on gender. There wasn't a lot of woke ideology in my schoolwork when I was a kid. However, there were many boring assignments that were derailed this way. Nobody died. It was kind of like kids rebelling in Catholic school. Agree that by itself, the above is a bad look, but not a big problem.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/05/22 05:32 PM
4

Circling back to our conversation... Do you believe that feminism did some good, a few of its ideas were genuinely legitimate and egalitarian, and maybe, a few people per generation on its side were terrific? Many people in the men's movement have trouble accepting this. Reading your comments, I'd guess that maybe you agree. Being a good men's advocate means acknowledging the above, regardless of whether you believe spaces/approaches like MensLib do more harm than good or whether feminism did mo…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/05/22 09:00 PM
2

There's definitely some of the same clustering happening here. It amplifies shared emotions. However, there's got to be a way to see shades of grey/black here? AskFeminists doesn't allow dissent. You get banned for "misogyny" if look at their regulars/women wrong. At LWMA, I had many good conversations with (pro)feminists, or right-wing people.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/05/22 04:33 PM
2

Wendy McElroy was also good and Ozy Franz had her moments.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/05/22 09:38 PM
1

Thanks, this makes a lot of sense.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/05/22 01:14 PM
3

Coordinating individuals to act in the public interest (and enforcing it) is precisely how gender norms came to exist in traditional society.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/05/22 05:16 PM
3

Internalized misandry?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/05/22 05:05 PM
1

Did Joss Whedon really do anything majorly wrong? Or did they hold him to an impossible standard, like they often do to male feminists? I liked his Firefly series, it mixed some good treatment of gender themes into sci-fi.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/05/22 04:49 PM
3

They live in a political bubble where the dehumanization of men is normalized. And the cultural atmosphere is enforced where saying "we simply don't care" or "don't wanna talk about it" is a solid, respectable stance towards men's issues. I remember Demmian coming out and saying that in a pinned comment in r/Feminism: "Sure, male victims of IPV exist, and it matters, and blah-blah-blah, but please respect the wishes of this community [to not give a shit]." It was phrased all flowery and poetic, …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/05/22 04:33 PM
2

I think you need to make the distinction between top 30% and bottom 60% of men here.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/05/22 04:32 PM
1

Christianity is recognized as a religion with an enforced separation of the church and state. That's the law everywhere in the modern world. Meanwhile, feminism is taught to kids and uses tax funds to teach college kids to see its belief system as a scientific point of view. Surely, you don't need me to explain why the status quo of the 16th century, with Christians treating academia as a playground for their faith, with science subordinate to religious authority, isn't a good idea for modernity…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/05/22 04:30 PM
11

I only had one feminist woman agree to pay for her own shit during a date. After agreeing, she patted me on the shoulder and joked, "Don't worry, mommy is going to take care of you." You can't make this shit up.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/05/22 05:10 PM
6

I don’t see what the big deal is here, Christians have a right to only seek out Christians, and feminists have a right to only seek out feminists. They are certainly entitled to their mate preferences. To me, it's just an interesting phenomenon.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/05/22 05:10 PM
13

Yes, it's a great read. And it really was frustrating to read, because while he didn't have a stable love life, at least he had something. He had opportunities that he ruined. I don't think that feminists knew what they were doing. It's emergent behavior. However, someone must have figured out that they can get away with weaponizing hypo- and hyper-agency to blame men for the gender problems experienced by both men and women. I was ANGRY at what I perceived (and still do tbh) as a structural unf…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/05/22 12:41 PM
11

Interesting story. Thanks for sharing. And yet somehow, despite women rewarding these behaviors and mating with these men, it's men who have "toxic masculinity," which they are responsible for. You might find this interesting: When I was younger – and I mean from teenager hood all the way until about three years ago – I was a ‘nice guy’. And I said the same thing as every other nice guy, which is “I am a nice guy, how come girls don’t like me?” There seems to be some confusion about this, so let…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/05/22 11:59 AM
1

Out of curiosity, how often does it work?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/05/22 10:13 AM
12

They ban anything on the edge because they "found" (read: decided to believe) that it results in a kind mission creep, essentially. Comments on the edge attract other comments on the edge of the first comments and so on. Allowing criticism of feminism is a slippery slope for a community becoming choke-full of literal Nazis. Gotcha. No matter how hard one struggles to show this thinking in a more sympathetic light, it doesn't become less morally corrupt and crazy.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/05/22 08:09 AM
48

Yeah, I saw it too. It was genuinely sad. One of the top comments likened non-feminists to literal Nazis, recommending a zero-tolerance policy for dissent. I'm sure these amazing people would build a space where men feel comfortable sharing their vulnerability. /s
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/05/22 08:05 AM
3

I said, if everyone was to focus solely on the history, and not focus on how they want the movement to progress further.. then no one would be a blah blah blah. And you simply picked out parts of sentences... I'm not u/a-man-from-earth. However, I felt the same way he does. A lot. The sentiment you express above is an enormous barrier standing in the way of sophisticated conversations with feminists. In feminist discourse, a non-feminist most often defines the feminist movement through: (1) how …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/05/22 02:38 PM
1

To me it just looks like you've read too much second wave feminists rethoric. Nope. I saw this mental gymnastics trick before. I see what you are doing, and I reject this attempt to evade. When debating feminists, if you bring a valid point they can't refute, they try to compartmentalize it to a minority of feminists. Preferably one that existed before or had little influence. I am sure you mean well, but this is just uneducated. Please read Camille Paglia. She is a universally recognized icon, …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/05/22 03:07 PM
1

I just checked the video and he said that he would agree that men are responsible for upholding the institutions that reaffirm many elements of the patriarchy but that has more to do with systemic critique than individual men who he would add are as much victim of the patriarchy as women are in many ways. This statement is self-contradictory. Either men created the world in a bad way, or they didn't. Either women are equally responsible for the bad things about the traditionalist society, or the…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/05/22 09:04 PM
1

I don't know what you mean about an imaginary version of feminism. It means that when he says "feminism" he is referring to this ideal conception he has in his mind, of what feminist ought to be, not any reality of what it actually was, or likely going to be soon. Arguing with people like that is impossible. The corollary of this point is, no matter how fucked up (inegalitarian, toxic, regressive, patriarchal, etc.) real-world feminist are going to act, people thinking like that will always talk…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/05/22 04:35 PM
1

I wouldn't say I like his take. I found it so freaking annoying that I couldn't bear to listen to the video and had to read the transcript instead. This Vaush is not a bright lightbulb. He repeats the most harmful mistakes of the profeminist men's movement, talking about an imaginary version of feminism that neither exists nor ever existed, as if it was THE feminism. Like those obnoxious people saying, "Real communism was never tried before." The above is merely what he wants feminism to be. Dou…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/05/22 01:06 PM
22

Many things in gender discourse are only there to validate someone's trauma or because of the political convenience. Like, the idea is useful, and then a pseudo-intellectual justification gets written up to support it retroactively. This seems like the last case, up there with "If MRAs actually cared about helping men, they would do X."
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/05/22 11:16 AM
2

Your idea could marginally help, but it is not semantics that is causing misandrists to act this way.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/05/22 10:12 AM
3

If you want her to evolve, this will come from impactful experiences that may cause her to rethink her prejudice towards men, heal whatever damage is causing her to act this way and become a better person. People don't just suddenly change for the better because someone gave them a stern talking to. Now, is there anything you could do to make this more likely?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/05/22 10:10 AM
106

People who say this exploit the empathy gap and male disposability to dehumanize men and shift focus away from the vulnerable men who suffer. The implication is that men who die of suicide (or a myriad of other male issues that kill/maim/injure or reduce your quality of life) don't count as the "real victims" and that prejudice shown in the lack of resources to help them while they were still alive is just a coincidence, and not a systemic problem. If you feel bitter, you can phrase this critici…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/05/22 10:07 AM
1

Vaush I have no idea who he is. Link to his take on feminism and incels that you are referencing? I am also not sure where he self-identifies as a feminist.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/05/22 09:57 AM
1

OP, can you post a short text-based summary?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/04/22 01:10 PM
2

...intersectionnality theories shows that we can simultaneously be oppressed and having privileges. Is there even one feminist with a big platform who believes in this, when it comes to men?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/04/22 01:08 PM
1

90% of the replies from dudes were that no man should ever fall for that bullshit. When women commit violence, it is often emotional and interpersonal.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/04/22 01:07 PM
3

Thank you. This is good.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/04/22 01:03 PM
1

Yes. But you can usually beat them at that game. The balance of forces is defined by the political leanings and demographics of editors. Hence my initial comment.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/03/22 01:04 AM
1

I think so, yes. A lot of these things are just civilization and cultural progress catching up to us.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/03/22 01:03 AM
-2

This is incorrect. Wikipedia has a bias of people who write Wikipedia.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/03/22 01:00 AM
9

Do you know what Just World Bias is? How privileged you were as a man doesn't correlate with you super-dope politically correct opinions. EDIT: You claim that you want good faith discourse. If that's true, you might want to work on your delivery. Overall, your commentary reads too much like, "Meh, dudes, your problems (a) sound kinda made up and (b) you probably caused them yourself because of your toxic masculinity." I am not sure whether you deserve that reaction, but I don't buy this. That's …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/03/22 12:53 AM
1

That's a good post, thank you.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/03/22 02:56 PM
2

Thank you, and you are welcome, but also, "Meh!" I am not that amazing. Maybe I'd have more ideas for what the fuck to do with this situation if I was as brilliant as my quirky, archaic writing style makes me sound sometimes.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/02/22 03:06 AM
6

A really good troll is the one where we honestly can't decide if it is one.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/02/22 02:22 AM
6

Yes, OP. I agree that maybe we should. Unfortunately, this is emotionally hard to pull off, even if the idea is sound. See, why does the men's movement care about these issues? It's a niche interest. Often it is because many of us were personally traumatized by one or more of them. When it comes to feminists, did you hear this complaint: the patriarchy theory makes men into dehumanized projection fodder in their eyes? To them, we are not humans. We are a vessel to offload their offenses and get …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/02/22 02:14 AM
13

Yours is not, in fact, a minority opinion.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/02/22 12:54 AM
15

You gotta be trolling us! If you researched this, you could do better. However, this: Fetishistic disorder is an intense sexual attraction to either inanimate objects or to body parts not traditionally viewed as sexual, coupled with clinically significant distress or impairment. Do you have clinically significant distress? No? Then you are good. This should about cover your question. Source: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/conditions/fetishistic-disorder So OP, please enjoy your extra-weird c…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/02/22 12:53 AM
6

This³!
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/02/22 04:22 PM
1

I hate to be this guy but let's be real here: misogyny among male-advocating spaces is a very real thing, and most of the time I don't see much effort to call it out. Valid point. However, you need to remember a counter-argument, taken from the existence of the 'slib: some spaces center this concern so much, they leave themselves little space for doing anything else.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/02/22 04:07 PM
2

Lesson learned, I guess.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/02/22 06:01 PM
1

It is a 20-year anniversary of Steven Pinker publishing The Blank Slate in 2022, so I guess history is cyclical in nature... ;)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/02/22 10:28 AM
1

Sorry about that! I edited out the offending bits. In the heat of the moment, I wasn't aware that my comment could be reasonably interpreted as a personal attack. Perhaps I am wrong and it is, in which case I apologize, and will try to avoid the same in the future. Can this post be reinstated? I think, it generated some good conversation and has the potential to do more, and be of interest to subscribers. EDIT: A few words.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/02/22 06:36 PM
1

War of Ideas can be a sci-fi plot if you have good imagination. :P
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/02/22 06:17 PM
2

Them's fighting words. Thankfully, I have never been told that yet. Well, I chose to take that as a compliment, as it highlighted my efforts to "get into the mind" of another as successful. This summary by Karen Straughan is pretty good. I've also found that it's also almost impossible to disabuse people of any of these notions, and all of this really, really impedes any kind of consideration for men. I think this is because feminists had a case of what's called emergence: through trial and erro…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/02/22 02:55 PM
3

Typical. Still hurts. I was told by another commenter, the tone of my comment is practically indistinguishable from that of a pro-male intersectional feminist. And that's still not enough to reach someone like this, no matter how hard you try, and what kind of a job you do. Personally, makes me wonder whether "men are human" slogan is a slogan or not. Maybe these people really see us as evil oppression-powered robots?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/02/22 02:10 PM
2

There's also an open question: does theorizing in feminist academia drive real-world women's activism or merely shield it from criticism?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/02/22 12:01 PM
3

No problem-o.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/02/22 11:20 AM
5

I thought I made it pretty obvious it was a joke about gender stereotypes.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/02/22 07:14 AM
9

I think you already have a big part of the answer down. We do it by (a) letting them know that you "aren't like the other girls," and that door is open if you need it, (b) offering support when smaller problems occur. Some people are more empathetic by temperament. I guess it also helps if you are one of those.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/02/22 07:00 AM
2

https://www.amazon.ca/Sex-Differences-Summarizing-Scientific-Research/dp/0805859594
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 11:30 PM
3

/u/TheTinMenBlog: I hate that sub and I'm banned from it. They're honestly deluded, childish and extremely fragile.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 11:25 PM
3

Heh, sorry. That's fine, I enjoy horror movies. Probably. But there is some value in co-opting their language and world view... If you are interested in that, look at the history of the vanishingly scarce number of non-misandric feminists like Ozy Frantz (nee. Brennan) who tried to advocate for men at the Good Men Project... And bless her heart for trying! Unfortunately, she failed. All of these attempts tend to fail. And most fail miserably, without producing anything of value. This can't be co…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 08:54 PM
19

I am a sociology major. Sorry, no. That's just your unexamined privilege talking. /s In all seriousness, though, there was this male writer at the Reason Magazine, whose name I can't recall right now, and he said that as a rare male Gender Studies graduate, he favorite trick for chasing away boring feminists at parties was this: he'd try to seriously, compassionately and politely discuss feminist theory with them. They'd run away in horror. Even feminists themselves don't want to talk about it!
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 08:52 PM
2

I am not sure how that happened. Big part of it is that as a highly sensitive man, some of it was unintentional mimicry/empathy to do a better job when reaching out, which happens whether I want it or not. Some probably came from reading/critiquing way too much feminist-written text recently, and thinking about communication strategies. You really sound a lot like your average US liberal intersectionalist feminist type in the OP, However, this got to be one of the most horrifying things I've eve…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 08:33 PM
3

Yes. All of your points are factually correct, and I agree. Still, we are not pioneers in making these mistakes. Feminism came before, and it was driven stark raving insane by refusing to bake any safeguards against these problems into its basic structure. It would be inexcusable to fail at learning from other's mistakes, when they are so freaking obvious before our eyes.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 06:09 PM
-1

We can't make the classic feminist mindset-related mistake and assume that all change in gender roles happening after our activism happens because of it. We can still do harm.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 05:25 PM
1

It's best if we don't supply the enemy with ammunition to use against us, and avoid summoning the demon that ate the soul of the "good feminism," i.e., police our own, admit that women's issues are real too. EDIT: Hold on, you are telling me that that we should stand tall and be loud and proud? I appreciate the fighting spirit, but this is the War of Ideas... And we the insurgents, fighting against the enemy currently controlling all of the critical infrastructure, with complete air superiority.…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 04:57 PM
17

Disagreement does not mean I don't understand what my opponent is saying. So can I... Unfortunately, the idea that "One can only disagree with us because of your sexism/unexamined privilege/epistemic pushback/lack of education, etc." have been a ginormous feminist talking point for decades. Makes talking to 80% of them extremely invalidating... How can a person say such things about a huge group of people with no connection other than that which they cannot choose? Easily, it turns out! And also…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 04:15 PM
3

No hard feelings whatsoever.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 04:12 PM
2

Use a waterfall next time, and all is forgiven.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 11:28 AM
33

Sometimes I can't help but admire the sheer brilliance of feminist propaganda. Their weaponization of male disposability and empathy gap for political power, equivocation between "uneducated view" with "you disagree with us," – this couldn't have been easy to pull off. EDIT: Typo.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 11:27 AM
2

People who are serious about data visualization use waterfalls over pies! /s
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 11:22 AM
1

People who will do the changing of minds and those most needing to watch out for their mental health don't need to be the same person. Maybe someone will have more intestinal fortitude, a higher tolerance for their toxicity will do that?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 11:19 AM
10

I was trying to empathize with the speaker by using "liberal" in the broadest sense. EDIT: Surely that's not the only thing you took out of the post?!
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 11:16 AM
1

What do you think about this view: https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/10/30/new-atheism-the-godlessness-that-failed/
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 10:01 AM
9

You didn't pass an ideological sniff test.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 09:31 AM
6

Menslib sucks but they still have at least some spine and that's why askfeminists hate them Technically, invertebrates also have "some spine." Plus, I'm not 100% sure if AskFeminists hating them is right. They are 50/50 at best.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 09:05 AM
12

The thing is, they'd love to educate you, but only if they have a gigantic platform and you can't talk back or question.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 09:03 AM
4

Take a look at James Lindsay at Quillette, too.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 09:01 AM
5

Muah. I love it. Feel free to re-use, I would feel honored. Sounds like Christianity to me. Fundie one, as well.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 09:00 AM
6

Technically, it's a lot of things.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 08:59 AM
4

I was joking. Can't believe you are taking that one seriously.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 08:57 AM
21

The goals in your second paragraph seem mutually exclusive with the general 'sliber stance of "feminism first, being good progressives second, men third." EDIT: Additionally, claiming that MR aims to be antagonistic or upset people as a goal is simply not factual. Although I'm not a fan, it would be more accurate to say that they are more like AskFeminsts or Feminism, in that they speak their truth and then, be what may. Do they have problems? Sure. But the main difference is that male anger, vu…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 02:13 AM
20

Is number of upset feminists per day the KPI we will use for the quality of 'slib-conversation? That would be appropriate.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 02:03 AM
13

Don't comment in the linked thread if you are an LWMA regular. It makes the whole subreddit look extra super-bad.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 01:26 AM
68

I'll never get tired of linking this in such threads: Thirdly and most importantly, criticism of feminist theory, from within feminism itself, is worse than un-care-about-able. It’s arranged so that substantive criticism makes no impact. How could it? It has set up a self-protective system (as do nearly all conspiracy theories) in which criticism of feminist theory is understood to validate feminist theory. Take, for example, the commonly heard claims that “criticism of feminism is why we need f…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 12:50 AM
96

Probably time for another check-in from the 'slib-mods to see what they need to extra silence to earn back their continued toleration. EDIT: I don't think it's a completely lost cause yet. But definitely disappointing in recent months. So many users pulling the "incels and misogynists exist because women/feminists are so mean" thing, straight out of the Trumpist playbook. And today I was reading a lot of denial of patriarchy and male privilege. and I'm very grateful this sub is starting to chang…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 12:48 AM
7

Well, you see, bad things like that just don't happen to good, profeminist fathers and sons. /s
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 12:37 AM
7

Not trying to equate, but you "not hearing about male issues" says more about where you choose to listen and participate than it says about the issues or their advocates. Are you familiar with feminist attempts to discuss men's issues, such as Liz Plank's book For the Love of Men? EDIT: Additionally, this bit: ...they are being brought up in a way that hijacks women's issues, it makes me assume that you mostly talk about gender in places men are not allowed to initiate conversations about their …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 12:36 AM
56

Oh yeah, "I'm not here to educate you!" It's honestly surprising, how mainstream feminism managed keep dragging on for as long as it did, when so many women comprising it can't be bothered to act with the tiniest shred of human decency and compassion.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 12:34 AM
92

Kids, stay tuned for this season's zesty fresh remix of timeless fem-classics: "is it whataboutism if cishet white men also want to be treated with dignity?" interlude "everything women dislike is akshually terrible misogyny, and I can prove it;" coming up next, a self-righteous hit named "MRAs just hate women;" followed by, "your fight for human rights better never inconvenience or upset anybody, male pig (but it doesn't mean we hate you);" rephrasing old twin hits, "shared custody = bad," and …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 12:27 AM
2

Hello, InitiatePenguin. I wanted to offer my apologies for playing my part in our recent spat. As you probably know, I am passionate about men's issues, and some of this has deeply affected me personally, which causes a conversation to get too heated at times. Previously, you have neither explicitly expressed the desire for me to stop interacting with your content, nor blocked me, but I can offer a step forward and take your recent complaints as a request to that end. Making this a public commen…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/01/22 10:25 AM
3

Does "typical political" describe only the ones who can get elected?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/01/22 10:52 PM
1

Yup, the kneejerk reaction was pretty toxic. If the OP is traumatized from his bad experiences, I can't blame him for such reaction. The rest of the commenters, though...
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/01/22 08:02 AM
3

Update. The OP guy followed a link over to the 'slib, says MR is an "incel fest," and claims to regret posting there: https://np.reddit.com/r/MensLib/comments/saucdf/comment/hty26wy/ EDIT: Typo.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/01/22 02:45 PM
2

You are welcome. I expanded on a few arguments. EDIT: Let me know what you think.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/01/22 07:44 AM
5

Because this sub has changed an immense amount over the past 6-9 months and I'm exhausted of seeing it draw in more and more angry folks who want to complain about feminists and do nothing else. Wouldn't it be helpful to ask, where did those people come from? How come that before, they had no community to discuss their views, and are usually excluded from the "polite parts of the liberal society" due to their views? Assuming I agree 100% with your interpretation, we aren't the ones responsible f…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/01/22 09:17 PM
4

I'm saying everyone outside of this subreddit views "anti-feminist" and "anti-women" interchangably. And that politics are about more than good ideas - there's optics involved. Where would we be in the discussion of religion if there was not vocabulary for clearly demarcating stances between you-are-an-anti-Catholic-Church vs you-are-against-Catholic-priest-pedophilic-abuse-of-boys vs you-are-a-militant-atheist? That's where we are now in terms of conversation of feminism. Plus, their own kinds …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/01/22 09:13 PM
3

Maybe I'm not made out for this sub but it feels more often than not that we are playing a reactionary political game and that's all. I think more likely, you don't understand where subreddits fit in, in the grand scheme of advocacy and movement-building. And I mean this remark in the kindest, most charitable way possible. No idea how to phrase it so that it looks so, so I'll just hope you believe me. Some of the most intelligent, educated people I know on the men's issues side of the conversati…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/01/22 09:09 PM
11

Coming back to this I want to say that you haven't shown that there is any uneducated criticism of feminism here. That's kind of my main objection too. When I talk to feminists, it often turns out that I know way more feminist theory than they do, and can easily back up my disagreement with their views with feminist authors, names of books, turning-point-years in the life of the movement. The above have never been an obstacle for me being called "uneducated" when they disagree with me.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/01/22 09:02 PM
2

That's kind of exactly what she is saying.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/01/22 08:59 PM
3

I'm not sure if we can really expect the populace to decouple "feminism" from "women's rights" and admittedly most of my bias shows up because of that. Are you saying that this expectation is has nothing to do with the deliberate feminist-lead propaganda effort, which pushed for the word "feminism" to effectively mean "beneficial to the advancement of gender equality, even if the actual political movement of feminist had nothing to do with these advances" in the ears of the people? That's the re…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/01/22 08:59 PM
3

I think it is important to distinguish feminism (the ideology) and feminists; and also between feminists that are in positions of power, and feminists that just follow and have swallowed the propaganda. I completely agree with this bit, and just talked about the same idea using different words: What does an average feminist ever accomplish in her lifetime of advocacy, except empowering those professional oppression-fighters in her movement who are more likely than not strongly misandrist?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/01/22 08:55 PM
12

You are making a great point! I'm going to play the devil's advocate right now. Surely, the principle is not limited to views you find disagreeable? The question I would like to see answered is: why do we owe it to feminists to care about their motives, understand the consequences of misandry with greater nuance/precision than "feminism hates men," or "what you are doing harms me and I'd like you to stop now?" You are the dominant establishment. Have been for 30+ years. We are the underdog. Mora…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/01/22 08:54 PM
2

While it is apparent that they have strong contempt for males as a group, it seems to me that this isn't the only motivating factor in their activities. Absolutely. What I meant was more like, "Under which circumstances would an average feminist see encouraging of strong antipathy towards men as helpful to her policy objectives?" Unfortunately, it isn't obvious to me that their activity is consistent with their goals... At this point, it's inconsistent with their stated goals. But hey, what are …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/01/22 03:27 AM
2

Can you be more specific. Which quote? EDIT: I am 60% sure it was towards the end of the original discussion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BYREt2r_uQ If it's not there, let me know, and I'll try to remember which follow-up conversation that was.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/01/22 03:14 AM
16

Having trouble understanding such a strategy. It's an emergent order kind of thing. Look this idea in economics up, it's fascinating! No single person among YKWs, at any point, made a conscious decision to collectively fuck up their minds this bad in this quasi-religious way. But there was a myriad of marginal trade-offs like: Hey, what if we start seeing men as a little less human, but get a +1 to the efficacy of our anti-propaganda outreach from now on? Sure thing, sister! Rape is reeeeally ba…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/01/22 05:18 AM
36

Doing noting can be really expensive sometimes. What you are describing is a called negative externality. Avoiding those is expensive. It means that you pursue your goals in a way that doesn't harm others. YKWs, as you said, can perfectly campaign without dehumanizing and demonizing men. But it's harder. And in their world, women are sooooo oppressed, that anything that improve their well-being is justified, no matter the cost to men. Their logic is like the one Erza Klein uses, when he says tha…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/01/22 03:01 AM
3

I think we like to overestimate the effectiveness of that backlash.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/01/22 09:58 PM
2

Could have fooled me. Bye.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/01/22 01:49 PM
6

This is such an underrated comment. :P
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/01/22 03:35 AM
3

If I wasn't familiar with his work, I could buy your point. If. EDIT: Look, friend. Do you know these people who claim that all rejection of feminism is motivated by misogyny? You are persistently making the same sort of cognitive mistake. And I'm fed up with this.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/01/22 11:59 PM
3

I also know he's a conservative talker who have an axe to sharpen against welfare since he's against Marxism... I am utterly uninterested in that conversation. He mad one extremely correct and often overlooked point about unintended consequences plus welfare vs black family. Plus, he's a brilliant economist, and I'm highlighting it. End of story.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/01/22 11:41 PM
3

Learn a bit about how language works. That's mine.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/01/22 11:39 PM
1

There's this joke, which has a grain of truth to it: A man who had spent his whole life in the desert visited a friend. He'd never seen a train or the tracks they run on. While standing in the middle of the RR tracks, he heard a whistle, but didn't know what it was. Predictably, he's hit and is thrown, ass-over-tea-kettle, to the side of the tracks, with some minor internal injuries, a few broken bones, and some bruises. After weeks in the hospital recovering, he's at his friend's house attendin…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/01/22 05:06 AM
3

If something goes so horribly wrong every time it is tried, then it's simply a feature of the system, not a bug. The issue is that wasn't communism. No offense personally to you, but I sincerely doubt that anyone without an ideological bias crippling their cognitive functions could honestly claim that language works this way. This argument is wrong when feminists try to convince us that the term "feminism" should denote what feminism was meant to be, and not what it really was. It is still wrong…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/01/22 04:49 AM
3

If he wanted to be honest he wouldn't talk about welfare and black people, ... In your astuteness, you might have failed to noticed, the fellow is black himself. People write about that which affect them. EDIT: Typo. Extra sentence.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/01/22 04:41 AM
3

My grandparents, some of whom are still alive, lived under communism. I know their stories too well. I don't have patience for a self-righteous 20-something to tell me what "communism really is."
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/01/22 11:47 PM
2

If the factor you suggested causes half of the problem, and you dismiss the other half, that's dishonest. Also: Thomas Sowell: Why Prohibition Failed And Drugs Should Be Legalized Source: http://blacklikemoi.com/2014/05/thomas-sowell-drugs-legalized/
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/01/22 11:15 PM
2

As long as it's not in my presence.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/01/22 11:12 PM
2

the welfare state isnt the problem, the way its implimented is. This isn't very serious. You can make that argument about anything, like communism or feminism.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/01/22 04:24 PM
4

The solution is discussing these issues intelligently, not ideologically, as well as explicitly admitting that even the most benevolent of intentions can backfire through unintended consequences, and cause a lot of harm.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/01/22 04:22 PM
1

Something like that, yeah.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/01/22 04:21 PM
3

The ideas he develops seem to make logical sense but he doesn't support them with anything. Sowell is a very respectable economist. I am not endorsing every single thing he said, but he does support his conclusions "with anything," which you can see by looking at his books.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/01/22 04:20 PM
32

Treating men as human beings would fix a lot of problems. Failure to do so by the current gender establishment perpetuates many problems they claim to try to solve. It is both hilarious and deeply tragic if you think about it. For example, by now, it is well understood that dad deprivation is one of the worst predictors of violent criminality and both committing, and being a victim of all sorts of abuse later in life. But guess who doesn't want to admit that fathers are indispensable except to b…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/01/22 03:27 AM
2

High-profile feminists wanted to help women soooo badly, they ignored how the negative externalities of their movement's gender activism disadvantages the most vulnerable men, and also erases, delegitimizes, and deprioritizes men's issues. This have been going on for many decades. In fact, this went on for so long, that today, your kind has become a part of the establishment. You have institutional power in academia, legal system, and have your own White House committee. Feminists greatly enjoy …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/01/22 10:21 PM
10

Committed to Doing the Absolute Most Possible ...says the quote at the top of the web page. That's some hilarious shit, I tell ya.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/01/22 11:41 PM
3

That's a good list. Thank you.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/01/22 05:44 PM
2

Interesting story. Thanks for sharing.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/01/22 02:05 AM
2

...is too dry for you. Surely then they will do what you want. This isn't about my intellectual or rhetorical tastes. Don't get your panties in a bunch.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/01/22 01:06 AM
1

I see your exact point. Still, in my experience, issues > rights in terms of rhetoric on men and masculinity. Your approach could be great if there's a back and forth kind of conversation, but I meant an accessible, self-contained explanation in a couple of paragraphs.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/01/22 12:14 AM
2

Wrong context.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/01/22 10:18 PM
2

Mockers often kills off any budding connection you may develop with another person.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/01/22 10:08 PM
2

The argument is ineffective if it needs follow-ups. Most people will see only one message, and you will convince only the person you are responding to. If that.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/01/22 10:06 PM
2

What's feminism going to do to us? not like us even more? They could focus a much-larger percentage of available institutional power towards active opposition? That's plausible, and it would be bad.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/01/22 08:22 PM
1

Repurposing feminist slogans rarely works well. Identical emotions and hardships are treated way too differently depending on gender.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/01/22 08:14 PM
-1

A page-long enumerations of policy issues isn't the greatest start. Too dry.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/01/22 08:13 PM
3

I don't feel like we get a lot out of kowtowing to feminism. Although acknowledging that we support gender equality for women is a good idea.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/01/22 08:11 PM
1

There's got to be better and worse ways of attempting this.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/01/22 08:00 PM
2

This reads to me as weak. The issues is communicating what we know to the uninformed, and this doesn't do the trick. If I say this, I am left too open to vapid counter-arguments ala "What rights men don't already have?!" and other feminist pop-culture cliches.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/01/22 07:59 PM
2

Does the book offer hope, empathy, solidarity, or charts a way forward? I'd take note of any half-decent book, but I don't need to introduce more crushing bleakness into my life in the limited time that I have available for gender discourse reading.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/01/22 07:44 PM
2

Thanks. I didn't know about it.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/01/22 07:38 PM
2

Yes. I am aware of the tendencies you mention. My goal was to be as succinct and low in Gunning fog index as possible, so being referential to pop culture was the most accessible mental shortcut. EDIT: Did the book thing shortly after. Not familiar with Sons of Feminism, though, how good is it?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/01/22 07:23 PM
1

I see no evidence for that. There's some evidence.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/01/22 12:36 PM
4

Good point, yes to what it is intended to be and I think to what it still can be. And is there any factual reason to believe this? What i will say is in response to your comment is i dont believe that continuing or exacerbating confrontation is to our benefit, ... We are the underdog, and not the ones doing it. Watch the video I linked in the OP, then say this again with a straight face. ...and recently ive been pleasantly surprised to discover that at least some dont. What have the ones who "do…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/01/22 12:36 PM
5

Personally i think instead it needs to be framed as complimentary to feminism. Complimentary to what feminist was intended to be, not what it really is? Perhaps. I neither made a conscious decision to frame it this way, no plan to always do so in the future. It was a part of an already confrontational conversation. EDIT: A leading public feminist from the US, Roxane Gay, speaks to the audience of millions and says that "disproportionate amount of attention is placed on the problems of disaffecte…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/01/22 04:15 AM
4

Does anyone else think that the a lot of AITA stories are... made up or exaggerated by misandric women who have a "bone to pick" with men? A fictional account of victimization to soak in therapeutic, validating affection from internet strangers? I could buy that. EDIT: Rephrase.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/01/22 03:10 AM
1

There's a famous quote by Steven Weinberg: With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion. I think you are absolutely right. Them problem with feminism is that it takes good moral impulses of good people, grabs them up for cash and limelight time, and then channels them into this shit using its deeply broken and biased ideological lens. Including, in particular, the patriarchy theory. EDIT: It is often missed…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/01/22 02:43 AM
6

Please try to get him help. This is emotional abuse.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/12/21 12:33 PM
1

Maybe you should engage with it as a human being instead. Not what I meant. I think the tone of my comments is coming off as more hostile than I intended to be due to the limitations of the internet medium. Sorry about that. Does that mean I can't talk about our social reality and how feminism affects people's daily lives? You can talk about anything you very well damn please. However, please note that this kind of conversation is difficult enough as it. Choosing to base it on emotions instead o…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/12/21 11:58 AM
2

What's religious about my descriptions? They seem vague and poetical, and at the same time offer me little of substance to engage with as an economist. Like this one: ...the system that surrounds us, affects our daily lives and whose core values are detrimental to human togetherness and happiness. When I talk about feminism I mean nothing of the sort. Instead, I am interested in discussing the concrete political figures, their flawed and often counter-productive attempts to implement their profe…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/12/21 11:46 AM
5

This is no different than feminism claiming ownership for all the progress in civil rights since its inception. You know how many feminists equate the term "feminism" with gender equality as a platonic ideal, instead of taking it to mean institutional, academic and political feminists that really existed, and made up the movement in the last 40 years? If we want to do better here, a good starting point would be defining what you mean by capitalism. EDIT: The reason I ask is, from your tone here:…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/12/21 10:57 AM
2

Yes, there are many shortcomings. It is what has elevated millions of people out of poverty and keeps doing so. As you said, it's still the best time to be alive in the human history so far. No disagreement from me there. Indeed, it would be hard for me to disagree, unless I skipped all of my economics classes in university.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/12/21 10:55 AM
7

Something something internalized misandry? EDIT: But to be frank, the commenter sounds just like a loud, obnoxious dumb person who would be awful regardless of their politics.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/12/21 10:36 AM
2

I am not sure if you are being serious or not. Maybe yes, depending on how you define these things. There are some interpretations of anti-capitalism that are intelligent critiques of capitalism in the modern West. Many others are not. EDIT: Like, if you look at the anti-work subreddit, many complaints are reasonable critiques that probably no ethical adherent of capitalism wants to remain unfixed, like this one: https://np.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/rltvs1/ive_been_telling_the_truth_to_my_s…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/12/21 03:38 PM
0

And you are probably also against being forced to bear it in stride when the other gender's activism imposes massive negative externalities on your own.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/12/21 03:35 PM
1

A lot better, I agree.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/12/21 12:01 PM
8

IMO, feminism treats men like defective women. Yes, I can confirm this from personal experiences. Spent a lot of time trying to talk to the most empathetic, reasonable feminists I could find, both in person and online, the "good ones." Got somewhere. However, most of them view men as underperforming women, and want men to "learn political organizing" and grow the in-group bias of women. To start acting as women. And "toxic masculinity" is just all the negative male values that were left over whe…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/12/21 11:45 AM
2

Sorry I think your argument is far too "Everything is Awesome". Yes. And I'm OK with that. Generally, I strongly agree with Steven Pinker's view that civilization and society are "generally getting better over time across the board." There is some extremely emotionally painful shit I had to deal with, but it's nowhere near the levels of adversity that my family had to contend with, and take for granted, without batting an eyelid or seeing it as something worth complaining about two or three gene…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/12/21 11:34 AM
2

I do believe that's the plan. The normal progress of human rights will carry on as it has since the Renaissance but now it will be Because of Feminism. Bingo!
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/12/21 11:17 AM
5

It's hilarious when feminists try to grab up all the credit for positive economic and technological societal change that happened around the time their political activism happened. Equally hilarious when people say that anti-feminist political stances will easily reverse those trends, and "fix birth rates," or whatever.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/12/21 11:25 PM
2

See my other comment.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/12/21 11:15 PM
6

Like, I can totally buy someone being an anti-feminist ala anti-nazi in Quentin Tarantino's Inglorious Bastedrs. But I think that's a bit of a stretch even for a more radicalized MRA.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/12/21 10:48 PM
24

Please consider being a pro-something, instead of an anti-something. The dire intellectual second-handedness implied by identifying someone as opposed to others' cause is understandable when used as a feminist-coined insult. However, it's really, really bad voluntary choice. And I have no idea how and why anyone would call themselves that.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/12/21 09:41 PM
7

I agree that some sort of selection mechanism is profoundly broken within mainstream feminism. I know a few intelligent, compassionate, moderate feminists who did their best to act as allies to men but throughout decades, they were always relegated to the margins of the movement.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/12/21 03:46 PM
1

What is it to you? I was quite entertained after finding out that some articles Michael Kimmel, a rock star in his field, posted at premiere gender studies journals were less civil and balanced than my mother's Facebook feed.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/12/21 10:59 AM
4

I had a friend comment that she was the least bad, when it came to feminists trying to understand men. EDIT: So yeah, I agree that she should get a participatory prize for trying to be empathetic towards men, when so few feminists do that.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/12/21 10:35 AM
1

My point was about the quote being funnier, when used in this context, than OP thought it was.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/12/21 10:18 AM
4

Anything a man can do, so can a woman. Which includes all of the above. I think the original saying was, "A woman can do better." :)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/12/21 08:58 AM
2

Thanks! I have been following from the sidelines more, subscribed to that bot that gives you top-10 topics and posts a week, since recently my professional life started taking more of my time. But I'm still with you.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/12/21 02:09 AM
3

Environment, sure. But I don't think we win anything by buying into the "everything is socially constructed" religious dogma. Have you seen that one Tin Men podcast with Erin Pizzey? In it, she says, slightly paraphrasing from memory, "There's a difference between men and women. Women continue to be engaged in their movement, and and men solve their problems and move on." Now, I've talked to a number of ostensibly well-meaning feminist women, who treated men as defective women. She didn't know w…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/12/21 06:04 AM
7

Kimmel gracefully combines a zealot's fanaticism with a politician's thirst for money in one loud, obnoxious person. So your response to him wouldn't get anywhere in any case.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/10/21 10:48 AM
2

I think the standard approach these days is to make a Discord.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/21 06:44 PM
28

I like this story, but it seems a bit too good to be true, even touches on all of our advocacy points.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/07/21 10:39 AM
1

There, I suppose, you have our difference in reactions.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/07/21 09:19 PM
1

I still wonder what you find so abhorrent about the linked comment. Were you personally affected by anything you discuss, or is this a purely intellectual hobby? I take it as an indication that there is an audience appreciating my views... I don't disagree, but from years of lurking, estimate these people at 5% of the 'slib at most. I reached out to several of them in private, and most know they are a minority.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/07/21 12:36 AM
2

Very good take. It would have been better, though, if it included Reveddit links to extremely sensible pro-male posts to the 'slib itself, showing good comments that the censored out of fear of losing feminists' seal of approval. Quite time-consuming, though.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/07/21 10:00 PM
1

That particular baby is the specialest snowflake ever, to quote Alice Grove comic (which is really good, by the way).
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/07/21 06:36 PM
3

That's a good link, thanks.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/07/21 06:57 PM
13

A commmong quote falsely attributed to Gandhi says: “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” I think there's something to that classicifaction, even if Ghandi didn't say it. Directed atacks like this mean that non-feminist men's movements we are well past the ignoring and laughting stages! We have a bit of a reason to celebrate.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/07/21 06:29 PM
32

People’s dismissals of feminism are rooted in the dismissal of women and ideas brought to the table by women more broadly. Do not be a part of that problem. Riiiiiight, you can only be critical of the USSR if you are an anti-communist, and an enemy of the people. I've heard this one before. EDIT: Overall, I think it's great for us, and for men's issues in general, if MensLib's self-destructive fight to ensure ideological purity intensifies to the point their hypocritical community finally sinks.…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/07/21 05:59 PM
1

Thanks.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/07/21 08:45 AM
2

I still think that MensLib is majorly harmful to most men. It looks so, that the reason why its subscribers like it is, is that they are a self-selected group of very "queer" people (using this term losely to describe far-left weirdos) who have no idea what normal men look like, how they feel and think, and are so far removed from the lived experiences of normal, healthy masculinity, – be it sensitive or not, – that they are honestly clueless about this. EDIT: Thank you for linking the sources. …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/07/21 07:54 PM
28

But got left behind, and started feeling very keen on "exposing her abuser?" I'm shocked. EDIT: Incidentally, Chris Avellone also provides a script for supporting people in his situation: For those of you that asked questions about these accusations — thank you. For those who offered support — thank you. For those of you willing to listen before rushing to judgment — thank you. So we just do these things when someone we care about is accused.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/07/21 09:14 AM
1

Having personally met with the founder and director of this fantastic charity in Edinburgh I can confirm he self-identifies as a feminist. Good on her, if true, even if at the first glance I have no clue what is it that they do that is aimed as specifically helping men. Yet isn't there a gap between "founder happens to identify as feminist" and "this is a specifically feminist organization and it helps men because that's a feminist thing to do" that you aren't addressing here? ...but the ones th…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/07/21 07:46 PM
2

I think its important to distinguish between the extreme wings of both sides and recognise that most actually people (on the ground, in everyday life) are not going to be in those wings. When the "extreme wing" is currently doing the majority of decision-making, like heading NOW, or spreading bad statistics at White House committee meetings, it is no longer a wing. It is THE movement, as it realistically exists. Almost every self-described feminist I have met irl has been pretty on board with th…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/07/21 07:29 PM
5

You need to remember that women are generally physically weaker than men, and thus face greater risk of being seriously violated. That's extremely irrelevant. I read that more often than not, the defender is overpowered in a surprise attack, and the relative strengths matter less than the factor of surprise, or presence of improvised weapons. Women are more than capable of being agressors.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/07/21 07:04 PM
3

I have had an exactly similar situation when I was a kid. Being considered very good-looking, one of my mother's friends told my mom that if I was a little older, "she would totally come visit me." I remember being flattered, and a bit proud, and no one thought anything wrong of it. But if the genders were reversed, feminists would attach a lot of panicky weirdness to it, "because patriarchy values girls only due to their looks," or some such religious bullshit.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/07/21 07:01 PM
4

Try Christina Hoff Sommers, Camille Paglia.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/07/21 06:56 PM
1

Do you know the saying in venture capitalism, something along the lines of "your idea is nothing, implementation is everything?" Well, in my book, both feminist anti-capitalism, and feminist anti-gender role views suck whale balls in practice.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/07/21 06:55 PM
1

Sounds like we do agree on a lot. 👍 Some people can only be reached through that religious avenue, I guess. If this is the only viable business model in this market, I guess we need to prepare for a nastier, angrier, more Paul Elam-like men's movement...
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/07/21 04:52 PM
3

Yes. I agree with you in principle, but strongly disagree how much that situation is a problem in particular. If the best-known, most-funded, and most-widespread COVID-19 vaccine was only 5% effective, we'd see that as a social problem. EDIT: So menslib won't help most men, menslib may hurt some men, but to answer the posted question: yes it does help some men. I missed this bit on the first reading of your comment, so yes, we agree more than I thought. EDIT: Take a look at this: https://np.redd…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/07/21 12:15 PM
1

I agree about gay men, or maybe minorities, or trans men, but that's what, 5% of us? What do they have to offer the 95% of us?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/07/21 10:18 AM
3

"Worship at my church, heretic, or burn in hell." Nice point. But please don't misrepresent Farrel's views, he's nothing like you.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/07/21 10:13 AM
2

Can you bring some examples for your core point, which I find bizarre and counter-intuitive, that ML is diverse and allows for dissent? (And I too, follow their space as much as their toxicity allows, but only examples of dissent I find are on Removeddit. )
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/07/21 10:12 AM
2

I am extremely happy to see this view gaining traction. EDIT: Let me correct you on one level, though. "Patriarchy is a religious concept like God. [...] People believe in it, because doing so fulfills a psychological need." It's not about propaganda.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/07/21 10:07 AM
1

The problem with this approach is that it was tried and proven futile by men like Warren Farrel.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/07/21 10:06 AM
2

If it is true that the "practitioners of feminism share goals with us," where are the facts supporting this view? EDIT: They have been around for 50 years now, surely, they would have done something, anything at all, to demonstrate their support?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/07/21 10:04 AM
1

I don't disagree entirely, but my point was less cynical, and different.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/07/21 07:13 PM
9

I fee like there are two bits of commentary that may help you grok this better: (a) You naturally encounter non-controversial, pop stuff more often than anything else. If you run in progressive, urban professional circles, shit like MensLib and feminism is a socially acceptable, non-controversial, mainstream opinions. Many people pay lip-worship to better fit in. And MensLib likes to cosplay as radical, novel, rebellious, but that's just marketing for teenagers. Their extra time in the limelight…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/07/21 04:47 PM
1

I think you misread the core point. The public cares plenty, but their reason for caring is not scholarship. So we should engage with that. EDIT: Rephrase.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/07/21 08:51 AM
2

At the risk of being predictable, I usually bring up this article, when this topic is discussed. It's good. Link: https://quillette.com/2018/01/02/no-one-cares-feminist-theory/
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/07/21 10:04 PM
3

Interesting, thanks.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/07/21 05:40 AM
8

I think that the progress of civilization in your country is a good thing, and was likely caused by economic/technological factors. And was then co-opted by feminist activists.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/07/21 10:12 PM
15

What was you take-out from The Myth Of Male Power?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/07/21 08:39 PM
5

Then we won't be able to have a constructive conversation, which feels like a conscious 1984 design decision by feminists. Kind of like in previous centuries "Good Christian" meant a moral person, and you had to fight tooth and nail to get someone to recognize that Christianity didn't have monopoly on morality.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/07/21 08:38 PM
5

I don't think that anything beside 1/ is possible. 2/ is futile, and 3/ failed every time it was tried before. As a system, feminism effectively insulated itself against any outside criticism, but made itself vulnerable to inside rot. So we just focus on building our own thing, and build the men's movement up.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/07/21 08:33 PM
3

I would still be getting my teeth kicked in today by my boyfriend if it wasn't for feminism. Do you call all improvement in women's legal condition "feminism", or only the parts directly attributable to the activists' actions?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/07/21 08:32 PM
42

It's funny how the same group of people simultaneously talk about how men "want rewards for basic human decency."
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/07/21 02:31 PM
1

Classical Motte-and-Bailey. But it's still going to be used for recruitment purposes.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/05/21 03:15 PM
2

It is a funny thing. It is like feminism was this nebulous religious ideal, like God, and no matter how much awful, regressive, harmful and abusive stuff self-identified feminists do, it never generalizes to feminism. I can almost imagine a movie scene where Ms Feminist Mastermind decides that policing her tribe's bad behavior is too politically incontinent – they can't possibly alienate anyone who could be on their side. So instead, they develop a hypertrophied, impossible-to-beat defense again…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/05/21 03:14 PM
3

These guys clearly don't like us and try to brand us as "right-wingers in disguise". I was wondering, what more can we do to combat this notion? People like this will always find an excuse to dismiss you. Don't worry about it, and continue doing your own thing. EDIT: Finding common ground is important, but there is no common ground to be found with "Everybody who isn't MensLib is alt-right!" people.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/05/21 02:51 PM
2

What's unethical about this? You guys are heroes.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/05/21 01:04 PM
8

Great job!
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/05/21 01:08 PM
6

"But your honor, he said that he was an astronaut! Who does that?!"
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/04/21 06:34 PM
3

There's your profit motive. I wouldn't want to give up that money either. Is there a source for the figure, though?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/04/21 10:51 PM
4

It is counterproductive to be THIS cynical, and assume the worst possible motivations, but they definitely play a part. And this is usually overlooked.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/04/21 04:37 PM
5

Yes, it was that podcast.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/04/21 03:26 PM
17

Most academics' conflicts of interest do not include justifying their appetites for tax funding of their programs, such as DV shelters, education, outreach, propaganda. This is much worse.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/04/21 03:24 PM
11

I may be ascribing her words to Farrel.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/04/21 03:19 PM
51

It is an industry worth billions of dollars, or so I heard Warren Farrel say.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/04/21 02:59 PM
1

Come to think, I already posted it as a comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/m2nm8j/share_your_questions_and_comments_for_erin_here/gqnycyc?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/04/21 11:26 AM
3

I think it is time for a post-feminist women's movement. I strongly agree with this one. But that would require for everyone involved to suddenly give up a lot of political selfishness. Doubt it.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/04/21 12:27 AM
1

Well, Forgetaboutthelonely is trying to do just that. He is a good guy, and I deeply respect what he is trying to do, but he would benefit from using a softer touch. I did give her some pointers, so I'm going to wait and see where she takes it. I think the current bottleneck for FU is non-ideological. Their mods will need to keep everyone playing nicely in the sandbox even as the two ideological worlds are colliding. That's a practical problem. If they can hold out for a long enough time, as eve…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/04/21 12:26 AM
1

I feel like this is demanding a lot of progress at once. Let's also be glad when we see small steps forward.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/04/21 12:19 AM
1

...that isn't beholden to feminism. Do you have specific non-negotiable requirements regarding how strongly and in what form this needs to be indicated?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/04/21 12:08 AM
1

Do you know the famous saying about innovation? Paraphrasing, it goes something like this: "All progress is made by unreasonable people. Everyone reasonable simply adapted to the current situation." It takes a certain kind of noble naivete to attempt this project. A lot of it. So no wonder about rookie mistakes. So let's reach out and try to help them if we can. Maybe offer advice on how to better manage the most ruckus-prone part of our own audience without resorting to 'slibbery, caution again…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/04/21 12:06 AM
2

/r/GenderDialogues I like the creator a lot, but mid-single-digit number of active members? No. /r/PurplePillDebate Drunken bar brawl of a subreddit. Not my cup of tea. The problem is that in any such space the great majority of feminists will walk away, ... We have a lot of space left on the spectrum of "strongly-arguedness" where we can tone down criticism a bit before turning into another MensLib. So let's try to engage with that minority. Big fucking practical difference between "almost zero…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/04/21 12:00 AM
1

Don't care much about their sex. This kind of moderation in a conflicted community is highly emotionally upsetting, particularly if you care about the involved issues. Not for everyone. So despite the disappointment, I won't hold stepping down against him. Not going to comment on his creating another couple-hundred-people pet subreddit, ha.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/04/21 11:56 PM
4

Please check your PMs.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/04/21 11:31 PM
0

Im not complaining before the fact, Im complaining after the fact. I obviously disagree. I think LWMA is actually a great place for these discussions... Not in my experience. The founder had a great idea, but currently, there is too much homogeneity.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/04/21 11:28 PM
1

...which she will eventually realize is "completely". What if we could exercise our collective gusto and postpone the complaining until it happens? That would be great. It's a failed effort... What other space for gender discussion can you recommend? See, LWMA and MR can be great, but if you agree with >70% of what is said there, you rarely learn new things or get exposed to significant new ideas. MRAs can end up with echo chamber spaces too, we just rarely outright ban people. EDIT: Please read…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/04/21 11:12 PM
1

That was a woman who is no longer a mod there.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/04/21 10:03 PM
23

Unfortunately, the second part doesn't follow. They just adopt a label like "NERF", specifying that they hate all men except trans, and then go on having their misandry accepted in leftist communities. It is almost funny. Have you seen that recent MensLib hot take, "Is misandry a problem?" "Yes, you can't hate men, because some of them are bi and trans!" Link: https://np.reddit.com/r/MensLib/comments/m896aa/demonization_of_maleness_and_reduction_of_men_to/ They should get their own comedy show o…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/04/21 05:27 PM
2

Let's give them time.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/04/21 06:35 PM
8

I am more saddened by seeing how so many self-identified feminists saw "uncensored" as an excuse to hurl whatever abuse they could come up with at men for laughs and kicks. Unfortunately, I don't see anything in the feminist literature that I could use in self-defense. A substantial part of feminism was always like that.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/04/21 06:34 PM
2

You are throwing in the towel too early, and in the process also giving up on a promising, noble project that could use your support. What the are trying to do is hard, and necessary. There is a mere one or two people on whose shoulders this task falls right now, and they sure could use some help.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/04/21 06:15 PM
1

Anything tangible. Letting go of an already-problematic employee isn't much of a result. You aim for something larger here.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/04/21 11:45 AM
1

Numerous subs went private when it came out one of the admins reddit hired supports her pedophile father's views. Let me know when that accomplishes anything.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/04/21 11:35 AM
2

...belief and accusation that MRAs are primarily motivated by individual personal pain and anger... This criticism is undeniably true, as there are definitely MRAs like that. And then there are feminists like that, too. Which is unsurprising. Yet, the difference in interpretation is fascinating. With feminism, these individuals are discounted as "not really feminists", or reduced to either a problematic "previous wave", or seen as a contemporary non-representative minority. Aka the No True Scots…
/r/MensRights06/04/21 07:29 PM
1

I like your line of thinking. However, I am more doubtful that it is realistic to find (1) an experienced corporate liability lawyer that agrees with your interpretation above, and (2) a well-documented case of male suicide, where the family of the deceased wants to go through all the drama, pain, and public scrutiny involved in trying.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/04/21 03:48 PM
1

Burden of proof would be on us to establish this. And in what jurisdiction?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/04/21 01:47 PM
27

How is this not obviously stupid? If am not mistaken, Reddit is a corporation on the verge of an IPO. So they take what opinion-leaders think and say about them very seriously. Unfortunately, that is not us.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/04/21 09:46 PM
34

Admins will surely react if we get a major source of Reddit's advert revenue unhappy with them. Yes, we should protest. Unfortunately, in the current political climate antipathy towards men is normalized in the media. So I have not the foggies how to pull this off. EDIT: Rephrase x2.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/04/21 08:45 PM
47

Of course, there is no moral risk involved in defining what counts as vulnerability. /s
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/04/21 08:20 PM
4

Oh. I didn't get the impression that you are a woman. Thanks for watching it, and for listening to what I was trying to say – this is really rare among feminists that I interacted with.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/04/21 06:49 PM
5

Thank you for the answer. As a private person, I am not comfortable with playing the game of share-a-personal-story on a public forum, but there are two key points that I can counter: There are definitely misogynistic view on women in the system or in the society as a whole - it is generalization because it happens to many a individual. There is also systemic discrimination faced by men, and the conclusion that it is just not as bad as is false, achieved only through the sleight of hand with sta…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/04/21 05:07 PM
5

This is a very idealistic question that has simple answers only in a world uncomplicated with cynicism and politics, which is not ours. I'll try to offer a more detailed answer later. EDIT: ...who knows where the actual movement is going to lead in the future. I don't want to be cynical towards you, because you seem to be acting in good faith, and genuinely willing to help. But I think you familiar with the heuristic "Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior". I welcome any future …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/04/21 04:58 PM
4

Help whom?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/04/21 05:59 PM
5

I think there's some misunderstanding here about what feminism is as a movement and a cause... I agree that it is highly tragic that so many self-identified feminists misunderstand how their movement was supposed to be about compassion, human dignity and equality for all, and then act the way they do. But that isn't on me. This so-called misunderstanding is on them. Feminism is still for egalitarian values and equality... I am familiar with that theory, and I am glad that you choose to identify …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/04/21 05:58 PM
6

Yes. The a lot of is politically weaponized hypoagency there.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/04/21 05:21 PM
10

EDIT: Many others noted the misandry, but this is the part that is truly fucked up: Through his research, Zac has advocated for a change in the way we think about treating men’s distress. As part of his research, he has uniquely focused on creating mental health services that account for masculinity. This has evolved into a fully funded project, Men in Mind, the world’s first training program for mental health clinicians, to help them better understand and respond to men’s distress and suicidali…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/04/21 03:29 PM
7

Welcome to gynocentrism. You can read about why this happens here: https://j4mb.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/190524-transcript-of-Elizabeth-Hobsons-talk-at-Cambridge-Uni.pdf
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/04/21 02:56 PM
12

I have a question for you. So we can't dismiss the feminist movement as a whole. Gotcha. Then how could it be, that at the same time, its backers support the movement as a whole, or the bulk of it, and also say that overall it was a good thing? I am deeply puzzled by this asymmetry... How can both things be true at the same time? If feminism is not cohesive enough to oppose, how it can be cohesive enough to support? Hope some kind soul could break it down for me.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/04/21 02:52 PM
12

We want to find common ground with people who uphold egalitarian values through their actions. FTFY. Men's advocates can offer you countless, public, well-documented examples of feminist groups shutting down alimony reform bills, opposing rights of fathers to have access to their children, attacking programs offering support to male victims of domestic violence, fighting to erase men from victimization statistics and doing countless other deeply deplorable things to normalize and perpetuate male…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/04/21 02:48 PM
3

Thank you, and I'll think about it. I you could PM me some sort of proof without doxxing yourself, that would help.
/r/MensRights04/04/21 02:39 AM
6

Please tell us more about your project. There is reason for skepticism, because your posting history does not show an academic background.
/r/MensRights03/04/21 01:38 PM
7

That's a great infographic, u/TheTinMenBlog. Thanks.
/r/MensRights03/04/21 01:14 PM
1

Yeah, that's misandry alright.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/04/21 12:54 PM
2

It is mind-bending how assuming the worst is normalized in these situations, particularly with progressive-, or feminist-identifying women.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/04/21 12:54 PM
2

That's not just a religion. It is an ideological machine, powered by simple people, and it demands fuel to sustain itself.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/04/21 12:48 PM
11

Congratulations on having lived a happy life. Unfortunately, some men struggled more.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/03/21 08:34 PM
3

:)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/03/21 08:28 PM
6

You are going to be OK.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/03/21 08:27 PM
3

That thread is indeed a brilliant example of why the MRM needs to exist so badly. :)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/03/21 08:23 PM
3

So you are saying that their views are uncommon in gender studies academia, legal system, governments. Oh, wait, they are.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/03/21 08:22 PM
5

She missed on such a wonderful chance to learn a new word... Sigh.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/03/21 08:20 PM
7

It's honestly inhuman how feminism further normalized seeing men as disposable.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/03/21 08:18 PM
1

If they had any better claims to my money, like quality of their product, they would have probably used that.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/03/21 12:57 PM
2

Right. There should be more important things to do.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/03/21 11:33 AM
4

Bad parallels with the alt-right.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/03/21 05:37 PM
13

We are a subreddit with 7 thousand subscribers, it is probably better to be realistic and mind our own beeswax.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/03/21 09:41 AM
10

I don't quite see what you are saying "no" to.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/03/21 09:40 AM
14

That's a good read, and the term post-feminist is the one I hope to see more of.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/03/21 12:21 AM
33

Warren Farrell had similar hopes for feminist sympathy towards men's humanity and liberation way back in the 1970s. Unfortunately, he was proven wrong. And here we are, a half-century later. I desperately want you to be right, but we just can't make our plans conditional on someone with a long historical record of surviving, and then keeping and abusing their power suddenly becoming nice towards us.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/03/21 11:51 PM
50

This is a consequence of the "Every day is International Men's Day!" line of nonsense.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/03/21 11:46 PM
1

This was less useless than I thought, despite the despicableness of many characters involved. Thanks.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/03/21 08:59 PM
4

Meh, come on, guys. It isn't nice of us to laugh at deeply unwell people. :P And this isn't an accomplishment, as in the radfem worldview, nearly every non-radfem, or 95% of population, either hates women or at least indirectly participates in the subjugation of women.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/03/21 04:03 PM
1

This is well-said, thank you.
/r/MensRights24/03/21 12:38 AM
1

This is great, thanks.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/03/21 12:34 AM
1

Sure.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/21 03:27 AM
2

👍
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/21 02:39 AM
6

Well, /u/LuckyLoser0/, we've been over this question before, a lot. Mostly, it is (1) the need to fit in within mainstream leftist spaces. No self-identified leftist wants to be squished by the ones in power, the behemoth of institutional feminism, or mocked as fringe, under-educated lunatic hillbilly, on par with flat-earthers, anti-vaxxers, or climate-change-deniers, which is the reputation feminism manufactured for its critics. Then, (2) there is the desire to normalize the status quo – ackno…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/21 02:35 AM
2

I think #MenAreHuman could work better, but your hashtag sounds more provocative.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 06:54 PM
1

I didn't see these initiatives under Obama, or Trump administration, and it would have made the news, if they were brought forward. This is progress already.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 06:43 PM
3

I think we have a "progress" tag?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/03/21 08:54 PM
10

"Pretty please build us a perfectly safe utopia, or you lose all human dignity." Thank God that's not a traditionalist take at all! EDIT: ...
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/03/21 12:11 AM
2

Thanks for saying this.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/03/21 12:08 AM
26

Thanks bro, take care of yourself.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/03/21 11:59 PM
15

You lost me at the "RationalWiki" part. They do okay at non-partisan topics, but once you approach anything that is politically charged, their levels turns into information garbage real quick.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/03/21 06:42 AM
4

What is the underlying reason for the women's movement's malignant shift in rhetoric, worldview, and tactics? Particularly, I mean the abandonment of the we-want-equality-for-all and rigid-traditionalism-is-bad-for-everybody views and embracing the sort of quasi-religious, sexist-stereotyping-is-amazing-when-we-do-it, and traditionalism-is-awesome-if-it-hurts-men-and-benefits-us that defined the feminist brand for at least a generation now. To show her what I mean in examples, please ask her com…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/03/21 06:31 AM
2

👍
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/03/21 10:25 PM
4

I am not sure about your society-wide analysis, but on a personal level, many men in my life were emotionally supportive, and I suspect the same of others. You don't have to change the society as a whole all at once (although it would be nice) but cultivating a healthier social life and connecting with a few humans who mutually support each other is probably within your grasp. Good luck. EDIT: What I mean to say, men always emotionally supported one another. Maybe not all men, but definitely som…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/03/21 08:47 PM
1

Fair enough. But please be aware, many people don't, and this is probably why some MRAs (or LWMAs) here are annoyed with you.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/03/21 09:56 PM
4

If you want non-ideological answers to this, which I think you should, then go ask criminologists.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/03/21 09:55 PM
2

Are you part of any movement at all, then?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/03/21 09:53 PM
1

I have to ask, as a matter of consistency, do you also oppose the label of "feminist" on similar grounds? If not, why.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/03/21 09:52 PM
8

Bringing women down instead of raising men up. How about no. This is a standard-issue bad faith argument often employed to shut down men's advocates' argument for non-preferential, egalitarian treatment. For example, we hear it whenever we want (1) society to recognize that women do bad things and should face consequences for them same as men, (2) freedom for men to choose in matters of parental rights, or (3) for women's special privileges or protections, originating in traditionalist mores, to…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/03/21 09:25 PM
1

A minority of taxes. And access to shelters should be proportional to the objective need, as there will always be less resources than activists would like.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/03/21 09:20 PM
31

Yep, this is how we gain ground. EDIT: “We are at serious risk of losing our network of refuges run by women for women.” I think she forgot to add this bit: "using men's tax money".
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/03/21 10:28 AM
7

Good job, let's organize something against them.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/02/21 11:45 PM
6

Thanks for asking a good question. I am going to have to think on how to answer this concisely.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/02/21 05:49 PM
1

Ditto that.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/02/21 05:48 PM
3

If it's on Reddit then sure I can imagine it being applied unevenly. I don't appreciate the implication that my experience with feminists is limited to Reddit. (now, I get that you probably meant nothing by it, and I am overreacting, but "you have just read a bunch of think-piece articles, and have no idea what real feminism really is" is a favorite bad faith tactic that I was walloped with a hundred times – so I can't help but draw parallels. You might want to be more careful in using these wor…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/02/21 05:45 PM
25

When you can't understand what institutional feminists do, try looking at it from a game theory perspective.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/02/21 11:27 PM
1

The response isn't to completely do away with the original theoretical concept but rather to take issue with how it's applied. In that case, your argument appears even weaker. I think if we look at how this argument is applied, the sort of a feminist-who-actually-does-things-with-consequences-on-the-ground, in terms of legal, institutional, academic outcomes, going by the available fossil evidence for, is even further away from an ideal of egalitarianism that some pissed off mod of AskFeminists …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/02/21 11:26 PM
8

This is a really good blog post, thank you for sharing. This part particularly resonated with me: Meanwhile, traditional expectations for girls and women continue to be removed from modern media for the sake of providing women with greater freedom in their everyday actions and choices. Yet, instead of dismantling very real elements of traditional masculinity that constrain boys and men from experiencing the same freedom in their everyday actions and choices – feminists instead continue painting …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/02/21 11:15 PM
9

So in short, we can't easily draw out certain characteristics or traits amongst hegemonic masculinities that differ enormously. Some are violent and aggressive, some are not. I feel like your criticism fails to address the point that when the term "hegemonic masculinities" is used by a gender studies person, 99.99% of the time, it is used in exactly the way u/Oncefa2 suggests. A generalization that is correct in merely 80% of the cases would be recognized as valid, useful and accurate in many, i…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/02/21 11:03 PM
2

Yes.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/02/21 08:06 AM
9

This is amazing, and I wish you the best of luck!
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/02/21 03:09 PM
12

it was only until i watched the video that’s linked that i realized my flaw in just dismissing your points as “against women or not paying attention to women’s issues” do you think that many women or feminists also have this problem? If you want an answer to this question, look into the history of National Organization for Women with father's groups, even before they have had "rights" in their name.
/r/MensRights07/02/21 09:53 PM
3

That gave me a laugh. Thank you.
/r/MensRights06/02/21 12:05 PM
3

It is hilarious. Then they realized it was too obvious, and their own pro-feminist misandrist TakeIt have re-started the conversation. Check out its Removeddit, too.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/02/21 01:39 PM
2

You are most welcome. I am sorry that I can't be of more help. But if it helps your work and you spread the message, it would cause me a lot of joy.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/02/21 01:36 PM
6

There is a now-famous feminist criticism of Donald Trump. It goes something like this: "Not every one of his supporters may be a misogynist, but for every single one of them, rabid misogyny is not a deal-breaker." Makes sense to me. The so-called "good feminists" should have taken care to educate themselves about stories like Jezebel brouhaha, and took their own advice to heart regarding misandry in the feminist movement. EDIT: Touch-up sentence structure.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/02/21 12:48 PM
1

Thanks, already did.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/02/21 10:50 AM
1

I definitely know the mechanic you are referring to regarding feminist participation. I have watched FRD bend over backwards trying to elicit it for years, and ultimately my conclusion is that the best you can hope for is a few outliers. There are few incentives for feminists to engage with MRAs- feminists hold the dominant position and engaging with MRAs really only promises to provide an opportunity to upset that position. MRAs have the opposite incentive structure. I think that what you have …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/02/21 02:23 AM
12

Notice the glib, evasive, cowardly condescension and pretensions of having no idea what their critics mean when people started making good points that they disagree with. :P That is a typical 'slib mod being noticed in the wild, going about its day. Nota bene. Is there a link to the removed thread so that we can run Removeddit off it?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/02/21 01:25 AM
11

I guess this story is something Mr. Avellone now has in common with nearly every other creative figure you have ever admired, he-he.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/01/21 08:07 AM
16

Ask yourself the same regarding black men, gay men, Jewish men, or virtually any other identifiable demographic group based on immutable characteristics. It should be sufficient to help you answer the question.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/01/21 12:53 AM
1

I replied to you in a PM. What's funnier, this volume summarizes more than a century of research, but when I try to bring up some of the points to the woke, they dismiss me with a wave of a hand, saying, "Came out in 2008, surely everything must have changed since then! And my uni professor has not mentioned anything of the sort in her gender studies lecture, and everyone knows gender essentialism is bad, so just shut up! And to educate yourself, go read this woke propaganda piece about social c…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/01/21 08:32 PM
1

"OK now, so you can be a threat to my political power base, so let's define you as a backlash against this good thing that nearly everybody loves and agrees on. We good?"
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/01/21 09:34 PM
2

Feminism is not a desirable progressive development, so being a 'backlash' against it is a useless accusation. It is useless in terms of its factual accuracy, but as a bludgeon, it still works amazingly well. I think you aren't giving feminists credit: they know what they are doing, at least on an instinctive level.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/01/21 09:32 PM
2

It always pleases me to see religious movements used as an accurate and appropriate metaphor for feminist dynamics, so thank you.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/01/21 09:31 PM
2

And then they fester for decades, and keep adding up. "Welcome to the movement, feminist sister, and enjoy your solidarity."
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/01/21 09:28 PM
3

It is hard to blame anyone for not having solved the men's issues two or three hundred years ago, but it is incredibly appropriate to blame political feminists for persistently diverting the resources already available to help men in need of help for the last 50 years. ...feminism isn't just the biggest obstacle to progressing men's issues, it's also the cause of many of these issues. What is the difference between a man dying of thirst in the Sahara desert versus the same happening in a major m…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/01/21 09:22 PM
1

That scene is hilarious.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/01/21 09:10 PM
8

Scientific American went woke a while ago. It's just American now. :P Take a look at this for a more scientific perspective: https://www.amazon.ca/Sex-Differences-Summarizing-Scientific-Research/dp/0805859594
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/01/21 09:08 PM
2

I think this is the tone we need, at least for a while, and thank you for your work.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/01/21 09:03 PM
2

I see myself to an extent in these stories too. At the end of the day, though, I feel like I was successful enough in coffee shops, bookstores, and other quieter, nerdy meeting spots so that I did not end up too heartbroken over it. (don't know how much of this has to do with things I control vs those I don't/couldn't: good looks, being well-spoken, living in a large urban area, seeing myself as weird-enough to be content to dating within a niche of similarly weird girls, etc., etc.) TRP seems t…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/01/21 08:46 PM
4

There is another view on this: being high in the trait of disagreeableness is the biggest predictor of having the first sexual contact early and finding partners easier. Not quite the same as violence. Unfortunately, the conclusion is the same: the feminist blank slate model of sexuality is a lie told for power, and it probably leaves men receptive to it worse off sexually. More here: An analysis of the psychometric Big Five consistently find that high levels of disagreeableness predict high sex…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/01/21 06:55 AM
1

Good news! I didn't know that the ideological opposition occasionally hate-reads us instead of remaining trapped in their bubbles forever. This is good for us.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/01/21 06:30 AM
1

MR at the top, LOL.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/01/21 08:16 PM
1

I can see you point. Sorry if my responses came off the wrong way.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/01/21 08:15 PM
2

This is pretty well-said. Thanks.
/r/MensRights20/01/21 03:14 AM
1

Hello OP, and welcome. For a good discussion on this, read the series of links presented here: https://www.overlawyered.com/2014/01/gender-pay-gap-youve-lost-slate/ I must warn you, tread lightly, and you MUST start by carefully defining what you are "debunking". This is one of the issues that most frequently gets the motte-and-bailey treatment from feminists when you bring the unmanipulated statistics and facts into the conversation. Then before you can blink, the wage gap is suddenly no longer…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/01/21 03:06 AM
3

I don't need to make a counterargument against someone whose sorry excuse for an argument is to assert, by metaphor, that society doesn't exist. Who is that person? Can't be me, as I never said as much. For example, you said: There are plenty of people who disagree over the nature of the patriarchy without being expelled from the movement. The range of their disagreement seems rather narrow. From what I gathered, the debate is not about whether prejudice against men is morally permissible, it is…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/01/21 02:33 AM
1

I mean, some intactivists are basically pubescent Nazis but the cause still has value. I don't disagree. I am merely amazed at the prevalence of "the majority of feminists are good, kind and benevolent people" argument, and occasionally wonder if the speaker would have said the same about the institutional effects of the actions of folks who voted Hitler to power. (and yes, Reductio ad Hitlerum, I know, it's not becoming of me)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/01/21 02:25 AM
1

If that was your argument then I think it could have been better expressed from the start. In any case, I am extremely glad that you finally see my point. There's a ton of debate about what masculinity is, and obviously it's highly nuanced based on culture and sub-culture. There's even debate as to which parts of masculinity are toxic, or if masculinity as a whole is toxic, or of gender as a whole is toxic. A "ton of debate" might or might not happen deep in the bowels of feminist theory departm…
/r/MensRights20/01/21 02:21 AM
1

I'm not asking them.
/r/MensRights20/01/21 02:12 AM
1

I was a part of this discourse for a long time. If you want to be productive, it could be helpful to familiarize yourself with the history of the conversation on these issues. Sadly, this includes a long list of bad faith arguments and deflections of valid criticism commonly employed by feminists. I don't claim that men's activists are perfect, but we can't get away with bad arguments with similar ease, because we don't have institutional power and media bias favoring our side.
/r/MensRights20/01/21 02:11 AM
1

If people who comprise feminism are to their claim of being ethical-minded, it is their "job" to refrain from sabotaging those who tackle men's issues. Unfortunately, feminists routinely do this whenever progress on men's issues imposes the slightest possible negative externality on women. I trust you are familiar with the term, or can look it up.
/r/MensRights20/01/21 02:07 AM
1

This pithy slogan is not actually a counter-argument.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/01/21 02:04 AM
2

She probably wouldn't disagree with a lot of things posted here, lord knows she had harsh words about the internal politics of some orgs she belonged to/helped lead. That's the thing that makes me uncomfortable... Did she still support and lead them, at the end of the day, despite some of these orgs' actions contradicting her good-natured character? Isn't that what most feminists do?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/01/21 06:42 AM
4

OK. So you say this: I guess I have a lot of friends in my life that are feminists and they're chill as hell. Like if I say, "men sure are being systematically and institutionally hurt and that sucks", they go "yeah I agree." Let's call it A. But then you also say this: Like, IDK, I get that a lot of mainstream feminist institutions suck, right? Like they're lying or obscuring statistics and denying that men are suffering and like they're wrong and that's upsetting but I don't feel like they're …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/01/21 06:32 AM
1

There are a great many feminists interested in men's issues. And I am personally very interested in achieving eternal life. Where is any indications of said feminists successfully getting anything done on men's issues?
/r/MensRights19/01/21 05:38 AM
1

Be careful when you say "feminists will say X", because feminism is a big loose movement. I am sure some feminists say that, and I'm sure some say the opposite, and there are many who say anything in between. If you intend to argue in good faith, you should probably be careful with statements like that, because "feminism is not a monolith" has been historically used primarily to dismiss valid criticisms of the toxic side effects of the feminist lens.
/r/MensRights19/01/21 05:37 AM
1

The feminist movement is defined by its actions. The vast majority of which are against treating men equally. By the way, this is a good way to put it, thank you. Even so, none of them are useful to men. We need to invent things that work for men. I feel like an overwhelming majority of feminists honestly, genuinely don't understand how and why their propaganda works so well because of their blank slatism. So when a feminist says from the stage, "A man alone in a room full of women is horny, but…
/r/MensRights19/01/21 05:34 AM
1

...and an advocate for men's liberation. Is men's liberation a kind of a campfire gathering in Starbucks where well-off middle-class urban professionals get together to denigrate traditional masculinity, which none of them ever possessed, as the source of all society's ills, and offer feminism as the solution? I would be persuaded in the potential utility of this "liberation" if its adherents had any concrete gains whatsoever to show. Unfortunately, there seem to be none. Most recent progress wa…
/r/MensRights19/01/21 05:24 AM
1

If we are using popularity and feelings as the validity criteria for ideological constructs now, does the fact that self-identified non-feminist women likely outnumber feminist women globally "prove" that feminism is null and void? If not, I'm confused regarding what point you are making.
/r/MensRights19/01/21 05:07 AM
2

"Scientists are baffled at the wide range of disagreement between Christian theologians regarding Jehovah's exact shape and form. Shockingly, some reformists even picture their God without a beard, or wearing jeans! Take that, atheists." EDIT: Slightly rephrase.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/01/21 05:02 AM
1

You keep saying that as if it's going to make it make more sense to a non-feminist. Are you familiar with the saying, the map is not the territory? You must have also heard that projections of the 3D planet Earth onto the 2D maps distort either the distance or the area. So you pick a different projection depending on the task. Despite your reaction, I am not proposing getting rid of the concept of gender entirely. Maps are OK in theory. However, neither I, nor other men are obligated to pretend …
/r/MensRights19/01/21 04:16 AM
3

This is really good, thanks.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/01/21 11:03 PM
4

Basically, any place where you find feminists, there is a feminist moderator that will ban you for having good points, or for daring to question feminism, or even for slightly diverging from the party line. And any place where you don't get a ban-happy moderator biased in favor of feminism, you don't find feminists. Bingo! I can't put a finger on what exactly, but there is something in their worldview that encourages this behavior. Like he said, there are feminists who are actually interested in…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/01/21 11:02 PM
1

I think you are fundamentally correct. Hate is often discussed as The Issue within mainstream feminism. I understand the emotional appeal of this explanation, and misandry and assorted toxicity are more tolerated than they have any right to be, and they certainly do psychological damage to the most vulnerable and disenfranchised men... Yet, I think, how hardcore, full-time professional feminists have a mental picture of reality as distinct from a normal one as religious fundamentalists does a lo…
/r/MensRights18/01/21 10:52 PM
2

Irregardless of prostitution, I sometimes do this because I could spare a bit of money to make my life easier or more comfortable.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/01/21 10:44 PM
3

That can still be bothersome/dangerous/unsatisfying. I just plainly don't understand your perspective. Why shame women who buy gigolos?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/01/21 01:59 AM
3

OK, no problem. To reiterate, I wholeheartedly agree with you and support what you intend. I just intended to caution you that (1) it is hard, and (2) when the people on the other side of the conversation are in power, and you are not, they are less likely to assume you know something they don't.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/01/21 11:35 PM
1

Feminist advocacy gets harder if you throw out the anti-scientific blank slatism thinking, and in effect admit that not all discrepancies in statistical outcomes are attributable to discrimination. Or so the people running their show must have thought. I imagine the must have been similar when it comes to tolerating and embracing anti-men pro-women sexism in the feminist movement. Some cog in their political machine would have been 1-10% less efficient. EDIT: Brought to you by this: https://www.…
/r/MensRights17/01/21 11:26 PM
2

...believe in the power of persuasion, am optimistic, and have enjoyed and benefited from these discussions... Please re-read the above. I think you don't realize that your comments are coming off as more hostile and aloof that you intend them to.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/01/21 11:20 PM
5

I think you misread my point. I believe in the power of persuasion, am optimistic, and have enjoyed and benefited from these discussions when they were had with an open mind, based on shared values, respect and compassion for each other, and didn't have a political agenda behind them. It's just that when the "other side" has the power to shut you up and deplatform you, they are less likely to be similarly optimistic, as you say. In reality, it's a rare and beautiful thing.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/01/21 11:12 PM
2

Ah. Then I apologize for misunderstanding your point.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/01/21 11:08 PM
2

A whole lot of people fit your description of feminists but not all. I have just had a discussion with an unusually pro-male feminist about this. Yes, of course, not all feminists are like this. I'll even agree that the ones who "aren't like this" are probably a majority. Unfortunately, the ones making decisions that have consequences, being leaders, and generally influencing the world, are disproportionately likely to be exactly "like that". And the silent majority does little, except empower t…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/01/21 10:58 PM
12

I don't think I'm punching anyone. I think we can reasonably expected you to familiarize yourself with modern leftist terminology when commenting in a leftist space. We all agree that men and women face both face discrimination. Men's activists do not play a significant role in blocking public recognition of and progress in addressing women's issues. Unfortunately, the opposite is true. Perhaps you could benefit from re-reading my comment, understanding, and then addressing the core argument con…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/01/21 09:52 PM
23

You are giving this advice to the movement where activists use pseudonyms when blogging so that they don't lose their jobs. Not to the movement that recently gave a speech at the United Nations, has a White House committee to address their grievances, that often removes people they don't like from online platforms, and whom tax-funded academics at nearly every major university provide with ammunition to fight their battles. You are not punching up, you are punching down. And I think you need to …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/01/21 07:36 PM
10

But the thing is I see good topics and great points and a bunch of people agreeing to what is said and adding interesting viewpoints. I am left with the feeling that i wish other people would see this. If you sincerely want to do this, then you are either new or don't understand how the feminist worldview works and how their scholars conceptualize power. An overwhelming majority of their kind doesn't want to debate you, as your criticism or pro-male advocacy is an obvious sign of your "privilege…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/01/21 07:33 PM
15

I think most of the conversation there is worth reading, but here are the most relevant and interesting bits: However the difficulty I have with feminist communities is lack of willingness to introspect or address toxicity within the community. I have been a member of r/MensLib for quite a while now, and have heard many members discuss this problem. However, these posts are almost always deleted. For me the last straw has been recently. About a month ago I made a thread discussing the issue, but…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/01/21 07:12 PM
1

I am sure you can see that it is not what I am saying. Perhaps an analogy would help you see it more clearly: just because undesirable and harmful human behavior exists doesn't make "sin" a valid scientific construct for discussing morality, and "Devil" an social observable phenomenon.
/r/MensRights17/01/21 07:07 PM
6

A woman needing to pay for sex is like a man needing to pay to masturbate. A lot of women engage in sex tourism or buy male prostitutes for similar reasons to a man who doesn't want to bear the stresses and hardships of modern dating. It is not noble, but I don't see what is there to blame in this behavior.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/01/21 07:01 PM
2

I understand your perspective, I just don't agree with you that's all. I understand the feelings of camaraderie and emotional validation that the feminist movement must provide to its members, but I just don't understand how an empathetic person can be OK with the costs it imposes on both men and women. I know of the history of reformists, like Katherine DeCrow, and Camille Paglia, who tried to do something about it from within, but they were always and insignificant minority, and almost always …
/r/MensRights16/01/21 04:31 PM
2

I'd say that means it didn't work out well. I hoped that by now, we have talked long enough that you would be able to recognize my remark for what it is: bitterness, sarcasm, and disdain for how effective cheap, unethically ugly, sexism-weaponizing methods seemed to get things done for the women's movement in the short-term... and why the hell isn't the short-term over yet. Needless to say I don't agree with the rest of your post either. I wish I would have had something clever and insightful to…
/r/MensRights16/01/21 03:49 AM
2

Well, so long as you know that you are making sweeping statements that aren't going to hold up factually... Seemed to work out well enough for your movement, even if it eventually did drive it raving mad. You don't find things like "yes, all men" upsetting? I'm a bit surprised as I do not like it. I would prefer for it not to be true, but it is beginning to look like playing this dirty is exactly how you win the War of Ideas on these issues. The discourse is largely emotion-driven, and the Overt…
/r/MensRights16/01/21 02:26 AM
1

I'm not denying the "nurture" component, I'm saying that it is overemphasized to the exclusion of all else in the gender discourse, and that's not realistic. Is Baumeister the only one supporting this idea? No.
/r/MensRights16/01/21 02:08 AM
1

Let me stress this again: More subtle expressions of biology exist than DNA. I believe it was a strategic victory for feminism, of the same scope as banning evolutionary theory from schools would be for fundamentalist Christians, to have convinced the general public that there are no differences between women and men, except for certain anatomical ones. I attribute your view to that, which seems to boil down to "It has to be either as big as pi-vs-vi or not exist at all."
/r/MensRights16/01/21 01:46 AM
2

You are saying that by actively opposing them you are giving them power just by talking about them? No, because they are not Lord Voldemort, and that would be silly. However, the only thing of substance, which affects my life and generally efforts at men's activism, that an average "good at heart, loves-men, my-feminism-is-not-like-that" feminist seems to do, is giving political power and legitimacy to this group of people: Are they the same vocal and powerful minority who are active in teaching…
/r/MensRights16/01/21 01:41 AM
1

I am not aware of any biological reason as to why men are more interested in spreadsheets than women. Of course, you aren't aware, because you are a feminist, and feminist intellectual framework tends to be extremely blank slatist by necessity – if you admit that non-socially constructed sex differences in things that are psychological or intellectual exist, then activism gets so much harder. But the truth flies out of the window, and this is why I say that the feminist mental model of how women…
/r/MensRights16/01/21 01:20 AM
1

Does that sound ok to you? No. Women are just as capable of filling out spreadsheets and answering emails, and men are just as capable of taking care of kids and organizing a household. Capable? Maybe. Equally interested, as a whole? Certainly not. This is known as an interest in things vs interest in people gap, it is probably biologically determined, and it is merely one example of a vital piece of knowledge that is thrown out of the gender conversation just because it is inconvenient to the f…
/r/MensRights16/01/21 01:08 AM
2

No, I think a vocal and powerful minority has been generalized to cover the entirety of feminism. Are they the same vocal and powerful minority who are active in teaching the theory, giving the talks before the Congress, and the United Nations, running the major advocacy organizations, spearheading the war on fathers' rights, and also shutting down conferences on male suicide that were going to address it from a non-feminist perspective? Like, what do the feminists like yourself, who don't share…
/r/MensRights16/01/21 01:01 AM
1

No, masculinity is a social construct... So you claim. Yet, the behavior of the majority people who say they share your view is not consistent with what your says they would act like. As in, if the majority of people who were educated on what masculinity is by feminist theory really believed what you say they should in practice, and not just on paper, I am fairly convinced that both feminist advocacy and pro-feminist men's communities would look very differently today. So no, I don't believe you…
/r/MensRights16/01/21 12:52 AM
2

I hate it when people do that, I'm guessing you do too, no? I guess we are both on the same page that you are in the minority of feminists who feel that way, yes? The guy's actions were misguided and failed to adequately distinguish between you and what you oppose, yes, but I think you can benefit from being familiar with that argument.
/r/MensRights16/01/21 12:47 AM
1

Men and our gender do not exist, and likely never existed, in that oversimplified, politically convenient way that feminist theory imagines us.
/r/MensRights16/01/21 12:34 AM
1

No domain expert likes to be sidelined, but it's a necessity IMO. I feel like it is disingenuous to overlook how in activism- and agenda-driven fields, "experts" tend to react to it much more strongly.
/r/MensRights16/01/21 12:30 AM
1

I think it's well established that women like muscly men. Feminist theories like toxic masculinity, and MensLib-like communities build around them, tend to presume that it is primarily the men who enforce male gender role expectations for other men, or make laws for the benefit of other men. If you are a man, that is blatantly, obviously false, and no, "internalized misogyny" does not come anywhere close to adequately addressing it. EDIT: And look no further, than how appalling useless and even …
/r/MensRights16/01/21 12:29 AM
2

I think it's fairly well established that gender exists. Gender, sure. Masculinity and men, in the very particular way feminists and their theories attempt to model, predict and describe us? We hardly ever existed.
/r/MensRights16/01/21 12:05 AM
2

Going the other way and holding all feminists accountable for what all other feminists say/do is definitely not ideal either. Of course, it is not ideal. And as you are a member of the out-group here, who still identifies with it, I understand how this comment could read as an unjustified personal attack, intended to make you uncomfortable. However, holding all feminists at least a tiniest bit accountable for doing their part in establish and maintaining a colossal political and religious machin…
/r/MensRights16/01/21 12:03 AM
2

She was a feminist throughout filming and most of the editing. Still true. And MRA she self-labels as an MRA or not, she did more for the movement than most of us here. I'm sure you are familiar with the concept of honorary doctorates.
/r/MensRights15/01/21 11:42 PM
5

There are a lot of issues that disproportionately affect either gender. Sorry mate, I sympathize with your anger, but this isn't a good way to discuss feminism at all.
/r/MensRights15/01/21 11:41 PM
1

Sure, you personally didn't. However, I feel some sympathy for the guy responding to you bringing this up, as exactly this point comes up nearly every damn time I try to talk to a feminist about problems in their movement. Last guy I talked to dismissed my concerns regarding Michael Kimmel and his "activist scholarship" as non-indicative of broader problems with quasi-religious, agenda-driven perversions of academic integrity in the movement, because... drum roll... he was accused of sexually ha…
/r/MensRights15/01/21 11:39 PM
1

Right, and prior to the establishment of gender theory the idea of man was what exactly? There is a quote by N. N. Taleb that I agree with, about human cognitive biases: "[We] prefer to have the wrong map (...) to no map at all." It is probably better to have no formal theory of masculinity, rather than have one that is a hopelessly removed from lived experiences of men, and ideologically polluted, as that feminism offers us. So I don't think that's a valid defense at all.
/r/MensRights15/01/21 11:30 PM
1

They had the tab already open.
/r/MensRights15/01/21 11:20 PM
1

I'm sure a lot of males today hit the gym to fit in with masculine stereotypes at least! Maybe. Blaming this on men and their "toxic masculinity", is still a despicable propaganda trick. If true, the trope Real Men Lift would be mainly enforced by women's sexual partner choices, which I haven't seen a feminist acknowledge in a non-misandrist way in a while. Feminism is certainly about gender equality, but with a female focus. Parts of it are, or used to be in the past. Today, it is primarily abo…
/r/MensRights15/01/21 01:57 PM
1

At the least, the more people who are expelled from their community for prioritizing men's issues over the sanctity of feminism, the more other men's communities can grow. Well, now you must be trying to make up for being a serial killer in the previous life. EDIT: Above you said this: Integrating different views and synthesizing an accurate view of what happened is a multidisciplinary problem, the best any single expert in their field can say is that there is or isn't some contribution. Do you …
/r/MensRights15/01/21 01:38 PM
1

As I said before (and I'll repeat it because you liked it so much), I'm no feminist historian. It wasn't about encouraging you to say things that I like. I appreciate that you aren't, because if you were a "proper" feminist academic, historian, or otherwise, you wouldn't be as interested in this discussion, in seeing men as human, or in questioning the feminist establishment. That was my experience of talking to people who devote a lot of their time to writing feminist blogs, moderating their in…
/r/MensRights14/01/21 10:06 PM
5

You are doing good work. Thank you.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/01/21 05:26 PM
1

Thank you for an interesting response. To make sure that I understand the way you think of biology correctly, let me double-check that in your view this: To use a simple example, in the past men did the fighting... Is the reason for, and the antecedent for this: ...so they are bigger and stronger. And not the other way around? EDIT: To be clear, I wouldn't be here if I thought that advocacy can do nothing useful, but (a) religious focus on social constructedness of everything, and (b) insistence…
/r/MensRights14/01/21 05:14 PM
3

This is mostly the response that I expected, with understandable motivations behind it. Thank you for putting this into words better than I could. That said, I'm certainly no feminist historian so I'm not too sure. This put an evocative image of a fundamentalist Christian who is also an evolutionary psychologist by profession into my head, and I am deeply grateful to you for making my day better. I have to say, I strongly disagree with your conclusions. Acknowledging that material culture or bio…
/r/MensRights14/01/21 04:47 AM
6

...so long as criticizing feminism isn't a capital offense. Opinions vary on that front.
/r/MensRights14/01/21 02:37 AM
3

Look at the wild successes of feminist apologetics in the popular sphere, and ask yourself how they could get there. It certainly wasn't the intellectual poverty and anti-scientific blank slatism of their theory that got them there! When their propaganda asks for concessions and changes to be made in society, it (1) treats women's safety as sacred, and prioritizes problems experienced by women as more important, (2) sees men as dangerous, disposable, and their sexuality as threatening, (3) asks …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/01/21 01:02 AM
2

I was being emotional, that document really did get to me for some reason. Oh, I am sorry if I came off this way. Don't ever apologize about being emotional in this way. There is absolutely nothing with your emotions, or feeling the way you felt, as you human and are entitled to the full range of your human emotions, including anger, hurt, and resentment, and please don't allow anyone to tell you otherwise – it is truly perverse how the pro-feminist part of the men's movement always goes on, and…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/01/21 09:46 PM
2

I can't possibly imagine an adult being comfortable preaching this stuff to actual kids... Thing is, I have a good imagination, which can be a bit of a curse, as I can vividly imagine adult human beings comfortably doing a lot of things that I would strongly, perhaps even forcefully disagree with, if I was physically present and thought I could realistically stop them. We see the word "hate" being used more often by men's activists as mental shorthand for the disagreeable mental models of the wo…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/01/21 06:39 PM
6

This is an amazing initiative, and thank you for sharing this. We could use more of this "progress" tag around here.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/01/21 06:07 PM
9

Yeah, how they can get away with using ephemeral and false statements like "gender equality" or "transformative approach" as a cover for a ideologically motivated power-grab using programs like this is beyond perverse. I hope you can find some peace, OP. We are seeing some small signs of progress every day. This will surely come to an end, because things that were build on a foundation of lies won't stand forever. EDIT: I chuckled at this: Feminism: “Feminism is defined as a movement to end sexi…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/01/21 05:46 PM
6

Be aware that r/FeMRADebates is run by feminists, and mostly for the benefit of feminists, so it's been kinda like r/MensLib-lite for a while now.
/r/MensRights13/01/21 05:32 PM
2

I am happy that the term MERF is gaining traction though. Do you believe this term gaining traction is going to actually cut down on the antipathy towards men, though?
/r/MensRights13/01/21 03:09 AM
1

My point is that it's not really fair to dismiss everything built by feminism because you feel it has been misused in the past. Please see a paragraph that I added to my prior comment after you responded. I see your point, and agree to a limited extent, but I would say it is infinitely safer to dismiss things built on a shaky foundation of lies entirely, so as to avoid the men's movement repeating the mistakes of the most morally bankrupt parts of feminism in the future.
/r/MensRights13/01/21 02:41 AM
2

I wouldn't go as far as to dismiss the construct of "gender", which I know is a feminist invention. However, the way gender have been made ideological, political, and weaponized, and then divorced from what we know scientifically... Things like, say, the gender gap in the interest in things vs interest people, variability hypothesis, moral typecasting bias, gender differences in the Big Five traits... These are the things that we know are true, but which are completely removed from popular conve…
/r/MensRights13/01/21 02:34 AM
3

I know you weren't replying to me, but that's a mighty curious statement. How do you figure that it's the actions of political and institutional feminists that are the reason for progress in women's rights, and that their movement wasn't just not a political side-effect of larger changes in material culture? Here's the reason I'm asking. I can't find the exact quote right now, but during her Australian debate with Roxane Gay, Christina Hoff Sommers remarked how it was the internal combustion eng…
/r/MensRights13/01/21 02:21 AM
2

That's right. This designation would confirm that a problem indeed exists. I was asking a rhetorical question out of spite for how it was the transgenderism that caused a civil war among mainstream feminists, yet yesterday's TERFs are more than welcome to participate, and their misandry is a-okay, should they just rebrand at NERFs.
/r/MensRights13/01/21 02:03 AM
3

Reading this has made my day better, and I'm most grateful. I'll watch the podcast later.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/01/21 09:40 PM
2

I know about New Discourses, but I haven't seen that. Thanks!
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/01/21 08:31 PM
6

Fundamentally I think feminism is a good movement despite some problems. Oh, I have a question. In that list above, is there a well-known label for feminists who disavow the movement's misandry?
/r/MensRights12/01/21 05:16 PM
7

First of all, let me thank you for your vulnerability and frankness. It could not have been easy to come to the "enemy's den" and write this. Welcome to the bitter realization that most of the sophisticated- and respectable-sounding rhetoric at the MensLib is nothing but false advertising, /u/fgyoysgaxt. The community had been built with the assertion that the focus is on men. I feel I am at a great loss. I am not certain that a feminism-allied movement can truly address men's issues if their fi…
/r/MensRights12/01/21 05:15 PM
3

I'm about as Left as it's possible to be without being a pacifist. I wonder what this misandric female dog would think of my hippy, peace-dove, Dem-voting, anti-war, pro-science, pro-UBI self? I didn't know ADL fell so low. And there is no place for acknowledging you as a human being in this sellout's world-view, unfortunately.
/r/MensRights12/01/21 04:27 PM
2

I apologize if I was rude. I'll think about your points later.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/01/21 02:46 PM
27

This is hard to accept, but not to understand. I believe that you begin by learning about feminist epistemology. In particular, how they believe scientific knowledge to be constructed by male societal dominance, and then accepting that the concept of "misogyny" is not like most words found in the dictionary, – it is fantastically malleable and amorphous, designed to suit the needs of the moment. It is a tool, a weapon. And in that moment, "misogyny" means "your activism to make the humanity of m…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/01/21 02:09 PM
24

I am not sure what to say about your post, since a lot of it reads like a stream of consciousness with overtones of injured pettiness, which I won't judge, as I don't know your story. However, you are correct in assuming that if men started to walk away from current social contract en masse, then the relations between the genders would change swiftly, and irrevocably. Which reminds me of this article: https://www.refinery29.com/en-gb/2020/01/9244509/laurence-fox-anti-woke-meaning (I originally w…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/01/21 02:33 AM
1

Just wanted to make sure we both agree on that!
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/01/21 09:53 PM
4

I'm sure we have all argued with feminists and had the experience of listing some men's issues only for them to resort to one of two arguments. What are your arguments against Young-Earth creationists, anti-maskers, or those brilliant folks who believe that Earth is flat? I am sorry, and I wish I could be of more help, and have a silver bullet to give you. However, the reality is, once someone like that has been living inside their cozy ideological bubble long enough, it is practically impossibl…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/01/21 06:39 PM
4

How can i get more involved with MRAs in a college setting? I think you meant MRM, not MRA, or men's movement more generally. First things first, if I were you, I would be extremely careful, and tread lightly to avoid imperiling your degree work – most academic environments in the West are feminist-controlled, or at least feminist-leaning. Those sorts of people are often intolerant, aggressively dogmatic, and love to derail or sabotage people they perceive as the slightest threat to their instit…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/01/21 06:33 PM
1

Yes. Try to talk to people, connect with men's issues activist organizations in your area. You can, and should try to help in person, even if you don't have much to offer money- or skill-wise, as it is a good feeling. EDIT: Add a sentence.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/01/21 01:15 PM
3

I agree with the basic idea, but you are mistaken about the role of the masses in this process. We recently had a conversation about something remarkably similar: https://www.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/jwfv4m/male_advocates_need_an_aleksandr_solzhenitsyn_to/ EDIT: Shorten.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/01/21 12:18 PM
4

I don't think subreddits can define movements, public intellectuals and other prominent figures do, but I would be happy to be proven wrong. We still have some people posting low-effort content, but the only real group of extremists we've had around wandered off on their own.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/01/21 02:51 AM
2

How about we think for ourselves, instead of picking the right political tribe to share our bed with.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/01/21 02:02 AM
6

This is a very valid concern, and thank you for asking a good question. I believe in a quote attributed to Victor Hugo, "Nothing is more powerful than an idea whose time has come." And time for the men's movement has come, a long time ago. In fact, this is the thing I fear most about the MRM: not that it will fail, but that it will succeed in an ugly way, and became exactly what it fought before. I believe that we can prevent this from happening by building our movement on a sound intellectual f…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/01/21 02:00 AM
1

Oh, yeah.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/01/21 01:39 AM
3

It might sound negatively stereotyping on the surface, but I'd have to be Dutch and see the whole thing in context to say what really is.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/01/21 02:41 PM
7

He wasn't sacked because of his views. He was sacked because he refused multiple times to take the video down and he continually refused. That's called being sacked because of his views.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/01/21 02:39 PM
4

It was not new legislation I’d transgressed, just a new religion with an old-time zeal to suppress dissent and punish heresy. The College’s ‘approach to equality and diversity’ — which it finally claimed I had breached — has never been explained to staff, making it impossible to follow. The boy who wrote to me afterwards saying he wished more could have been done to defend my case needn’t have felt so bad. Shame about this man's profession, but I'm glad that more people are starting to catch up …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/01/21 02:38 PM
12

It's a decent project, but I don't feel like as a movement, we are strapped for ideas. Rather, people who can be dedicated full-time activists / academic researchers, are rarer than they should be.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/01/21 12:30 AM
1

That's the spirit! Helping others is a great way to create some meaning and warmth in one's life, in my experience.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/01/21 10:30 PM
9

Weed is probably not going to kill you, unlike alcohol. I feel like you should really talk to someone about cultivating a wider variety of "copes". Do you think you can do that?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/01/21 05:23 AM
1

Now screening, in IMAX Laser: 2021 Resolutions, A Man From Earth Edition.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/01/21 05:19 AM
1

Joking!
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/01/21 11:59 PM
2

Ha-ha, so you are only banning bots that aren't quick enough to bend their knee. EDIT: Rephrase.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/01/21 11:22 PM
42

If you want something that helps you muster the will to live, you probably want to give and receive empathy in an away-from-keyboard group of men. Goes double if you are in danger from coping by drinking, you need a better support structure. I personally avoid places like PurplePillDebates: they are lively and uncensored, but it is like a drunken bar brawl, where everyone lets their insecurities come out and play, lashing at everyone else, except its verbal and tangential to gender issues. Addit…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/01/21 10:14 PM
6

Welcome to this community, and please enjoy your stay.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/01/21 12:28 PM
2

Perhaps we could collaborate on (1) building a more robust FAQ with entries on topics that frequently come up, like disagreements we have with MensRights and MensLib sub-sections of the men's moment, and other questions that come up a lot, and also (2) consolidate our assorted lists and resources documenting our objections to feminist approaches to men's issues.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/12/20 07:17 PM
2

I don't care whether you think you "hate" me or not. However, your continued refusal to construe your criticisms in an intelligible, well-articulated way, so that I don't have to do cognitive archeology to uncover your point is indeed a good reason for me to block you, and move on with my day. To stress, this isn't about ideologically correct positions, this is about you being inarticulate. Hopefully, you will learn from this, and grow past such childishness in the future. Make an insane demand …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/12/20 05:23 PM
1

I see in the first sentence that you continue to misunderstand what blank slate means, refusing my efforts to help educate yourself on the terminology I use. This makes productive conversation impossible. Therefore, I'm not going to read the rest of what you wrote. Have a nice day.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/12/20 05:11 PM
2

Your post could be seen as relevant to advocacy on men's issues, but we are merely asking you to help the rest of us see this connection. If you don't wish to do so, perhaps you would be better served by posting on r/AskMen, the X-something subreddit, or some other more general male-oriented community. You seemed to have read way more negativity into my previous comment than I indented with it, so please try to see that I'm trying to put this in the kindest possible way.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/12/20 04:17 PM
1

And u/Kikomori2465/, please see this comment (https://www.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/klevbg/this_is_a_good_menslib_post_imho_that_focuses_on/ghedzrn?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) for an explanation why many of us consider their community oppressive and toxic. Why else would one censor all of these neutral, well-written pro-male points of view? How can you reconcile these actions with the claim to advocate for men?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/12/20 04:07 PM
1

Of course! Yet, I'm talking about making it a subreddit-wide rule. I don't know how u/serpentineeyelash would feel about this, since he wasn't active recently, but maybe you could discuss this with other moderators?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/12/20 03:52 PM
3

Maybe we should have a subreddit-wide policy: OP has to include the Removeddit link when sharing content from the 'slib? Most insightful comments often fail their ideological purity litmus tests and are therefore removed, and it would do justice to their OPs and our readers both to help rediscover them. EDIT. Please see some censored examples from the linked thread, that are also great comments: ​ Oh look, you're making my point. Fact is, it is mutilation, and no matter the negative connotations…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/12/20 03:35 PM
11

Feel free to remove if this is considered low-effort or unrelated, but this felt like an exposing type of thing, like when feminists/menslibs there finally let loose and talk. I am not suggesting that this should be removed, but most of us already know what the 'slib is, and how cultishly they moderate. Therefore, the question is, how we can best fill the niche they so desperately wish to maintain as empty. So in this conversation, I would appreciate seeing some more comments from the OP on the …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/12/20 03:31 PM
2

It's your own (in my opinion very blank) statement... This is not what the term blank slate means. It might assist you to look it up. Here, let me help: https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/the-human-beast/201609/the-blank-slate-controversy I have no idea and i'm profoundly confused over why you are asking me this question. You are posting in the men's issues community. Per our rules, the posters are required to have their content be directly relevant to men's issues and related advocacy. Sin…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/12/20 03:01 PM
1

The state of men in modern society is the result deliberate plan to disempower us. You are not entirely wrong, but this line a fatal flaw in your analysis, and a point where I stopped reading closely. Few people wake up in the morning, look in the mirror, and say, "I am going to go ahead and make this world a worse place." Everybody is a hero inside their own little story. Most atrocious consequences aren't a deliberate design. Horror strikes as an unanticipated side-effect of some other, superf…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/12/20 12:38 PM
77

I don't think we have to pretend that we believe this shit is mainstream within feminism to condemn it. However, the fact that it firmly fits in the Overton Window is indeed a problem.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/12/20 12:31 PM
2

I am not sure if this is the way it works.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/12/20 12:24 PM
2

So yes, modern gender discourse is regrettably extremely blank slatist, and that is counter-productive. However, I am confused about something. What are the conclusions for men's advocacy that one can draw from your analysis?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/12/20 12:22 PM
1

There seems to be a pendulum. It exists in terms of attention from the general public, and numbers of bias-driven researcher-activists, plus loud-mouthed, overzealous activists on the ground. I personally don't believe in a pendulum. That's very nice of you to think so, but it hardly matters if your attitude isn't shared by people actually teaching the theory and making the important decisions at the helm of orgs.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/12/20 12:56 PM
8

Oh no! But what if someone comes around and posts a lot of Ayn Rand content when the mods are busy eating their Christmas turkeys. However will this community carry on?!
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/12/20 08:44 AM
11

It is beautiful to see this community become a platform for nuanced conversations you are forbidden from having elsewhere.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/12/20 08:38 AM
3

I guess this is just how self-identification works in our day and age, a price to pay for living in an individualized modern society. At a first glance, I don't see a serious problem here.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/12/20 08:32 AM
6

Amber Heard is an opportunistic predator and manipulator who weaponized the shit that's currently trending on Twitter for personal gain. The problem isn't that she is a model feminist, as some victimized and embittered men in our movement could say. Rather, the grave problem here is that (1) feminists will and do defend and enable the most horrible women like her against all reason and common sense. And (2) in practice, the "Believe Women" style of apologetics wiped away any trace of critical th…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/12/20 08:24 AM
5

I guess their preferred methods speak to who they are.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/12/20 08:15 AM
10

"Anti-anti-feminist" is what their key people are, like that guy on Debates sub. Advocating for men may or may not be included in this, but most often is not, unless the men in question are gay, black, or trans, which excludes around 70% of men. I agree that we need to bring more awareness to the harm their false advertising is causing. It will be effective, as most of the people whose insightful comments got quietly removed suspected nothing. Many were shocked at the extent of the censorship wh…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/12/20 08:05 AM
25

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. An important note: you absolutely ought to use sites like Removeddit while linking to the occasional good thread on the 'slib. It is an important tool for fighting their censorship and authoritarianism. Check this out: Men's lib is not a subreddit about men's liberation anymore. [...] I have no problem with lgbtq+ groups, i simply think that this subreddit isn't about men's issues anymore, and that's why people are drifting towards MRA groups that prima…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/12/20 08:08 AM
2

Know the famous saying, common around Burning Man festival, "Safety Third"? That be the 'slib stance on advocating for men in a nutshell.
/r/MensRights22/12/20 07:56 AM
5

Yes we are. But that doesn't matter to anyone except us. What matters, is the hows and whys of the feminist establishment being able to get away with lying so brazenly and bizarrely in Forbes. That's an interesting topic. EDIT: And I'm very interested to discuss should you have any thoughts on the specifics.
/r/MensRights22/12/20 07:53 AM
6

In my experience, that push back comes from the perception that feminists don't like men; that it's not inclusive and it only reflects the interests and priorities of one race and ethnicity. So it's really their misperception. Yeah, the author of that article could greatly benefit from lying less. EDIT: The real problem is that vanishingly few people press them on the wishful thinking like this: True Feminism Is About Equality for Both Genders
/r/MensRights21/12/20 04:28 PM
2

Maybe some unnamed NSA agent can finally learn a thing or two and get laid.
/r/MensRights18/12/20 01:24 PM
1

Yeah, comes as a keyboard. EDIT: It sends everything you type to the cloud, so definitely not appropriate for all contexts, but it can help you.
/r/MensRights18/12/20 12:35 AM
4

I'm not an anti-Marxist but I don't want unchecked, literal Marxism dictating the society I live in either. The difference is, I haven't seen modern Marxists trying to build a cultish, blanket, no-thinking-required social mandate of condemnation of people who oppose them, smearing them as enemies of the people who are too amoral to be allowed to speak. (well, not since the mandatory one-party rule in the USSR was dissolved, anyway, but that was a while ago) So I have had a moment epiphany where …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/12/20 12:34 AM
1

Grammarly helps.
/r/MensRights17/12/20 01:31 AM
2

Thank you for doing this, OP. Seeing more progress is good.
/r/MensRights16/12/20 10:21 PM
2

"No, don't you dare use our own tactics against us! This accusation is true only when women make it... because... standpoint epistemology... or something!"
/r/MensRights16/12/20 10:11 PM
4

When you cease being OK with this shit, you cease being a feminist.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/12/20 09:56 PM
13

I dunno, I've seen a lot more people labeling themselves antifeminists here than I am personally comfortable with. Thing is, what does "anti-feminist" really mean? In my experience, when you talk to feminists, this is their way of saying: "You hold a position I disagree with or one that might make my advocacy harder, so I'm going to use my position of privilege and power to smear, denounce and delegitimize you". Why don't we ever examine, how we allowed the women's movement to equate their messy…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/12/20 09:54 PM
8

Hi there, OP, and welcome to this community. Basically, at LWMA we are more likely to discuss men's issues from a structural or society-wide perspective, while conservatives put more stress on individual responsibility, which is one of the key distinctions between the righty vs lefty lens, and the glaring gap in the modern intellectual landscape. However, unlike the 'slib, we don't censor, are not interested in ideological purity, and don't fight to maintain the feminist internationalist academi…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/12/20 09:39 PM
1

Jesus Christ... This story is like that off-color joke about someone calling the rape hotline only to discover that it was only intended for victims.
/r/MensRights16/12/20 09:33 PM
7

Thank you for being more patient with these people than I could, and doing good works. It adds up.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/12/20 03:13 PM
7

I'd say it is appropriate, even if anti-feminism for its own sake is not the purpose of this community. But being pro-men and anti-misandry is, so opposition from feminists and towards feminism tends to follow naturally from that. However, you should be aware of one thing, which I can personally attest is true. People tend to shut down and stop themselves from hearing men when they detect any emotional pain. It happens much faster if they detect a hint of anger, or if your advocacy for men can u…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/12/20 03:03 PM
1

Hilarious story.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/12/20 05:57 AM
2

Reminds me of feminist attempts to dismiss Warren Farrel's legitimate points by painting him as "pro-rape".
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/12/20 05:56 AM
1

She's a splendid women, and runs a newsletter you can subscribe to.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/12/20 05:52 AM
3

We could use a lot more of this tag.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/12/20 05:51 AM
3

Oh, that's a shame. I managed to send mine.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/12/20 03:53 AM
1

As soon as MRA phrase men's rights in terms of "but women" we fail. I've tried saying that a bunch of times in this sub, only to be downvoted a lot, but it's true. We need to first get to a position of equal treatment as victims, so much as we can, before we start labelling our abusers. I'm sorry for the treatment your received. This situation sucks, and you are probably right.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/12/20 09:21 PM
4

The only thing Dalio asks is that the person tell him what charity they donated to. “It tells me about their personalities,” he told Huffington, “tells me about what they care about and why.” The resulting conversations about where they donated the money “are fabulous,” Dalio said. Dalio also works with nonprofit organizations DonorsChoose or TisBest Philanthropy to send gift cards for his friends to donate to the charities of their choice, he said. This year, for example, Dalio is giving $100 T…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/12/20 08:53 PM
1

You are welcome.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/11/20 03:16 PM
3

There is a famous saying, which I'm maybe slightly paraphrasing: "Wikipedia shares the biases of those who write it."
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/11/20 12:51 AM
11

Ooh, reported. This should be entertaining. Also, most of what you think I've admitted seems to come purely from your imagination. You really should learn to distinguish that from the things you actually read. This guy sure sounds like a feminist.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/11/20 04:15 PM
1

Kudos.
/r/MensRights28/11/20 04:28 AM
3

Bless that girl for having her heart in the right place. Yet she is still a complete motherfucking idiot. Despite her sympathy, she understands little about men, and pervasiveness of this sort ignorance about gender and men is a big part of why men's movement is fighting such an uphill battle: So, the reason people don’t celebrate international men’s day is because it’s kind of redundant. Every day is international men’s day because men literally run the world. That’s because you have an entire …
/r/MensRights28/11/20 02:57 AM
1

Right back at ya.
/r/MensRights28/11/20 02:16 AM
1

You figure it out. If you don't like the general tendency only for the parts of feminism one likes or agrees to count as "real feminism", and only those parts. If so, I'm sure you'll thinking of something. Not holding my breath, though. This sleight of hand is too politically useful.
/r/MensRights28/11/20 02:11 AM
1

You know, the old school ones who picketed the Miss America contest. Bravo, such a wonderful example of amazing flexibility of definitions! Of course, they were monolithic enough to warrant the generalization that suits your whims of the current moment, since you are a woman and a feminist. (No.)
/r/MensRights28/11/20 02:02 AM
1

Who is saying someone isn’t really a feminist? You do. You ignored every feminist who wasn't "fighting this from the day one", or opposed the ones fighting it, and generally discarded numerous anti-porn, anti-sex or anti-prostitution feminists, some of whom are still active today. Surely your "feminist education" is good enough that you don't need my help to recall those names? It's funny how "feminism isn't a monolith" whenever generalized about with an intent to criticize it, but when generali…
/r/MensRights28/11/20 01:34 AM
1

Ah, refreshingly insightful, as always.
/r/MensRights28/11/20 01:11 AM
1

Feminists have been fighting this type of stuff from day one. It never ceases to amaze me how quickly numerous feminists who were on the wrong side of major issues in the past, such as anti-porn vs pro-porn or anti-sex vs pro-sex, are made into Not True Scottsmen.
/r/MensRights28/11/20 01:10 AM
1

Generally, feminists' ability to understand men is notoriously awful. I heard bell hooks sucks less than most, but it means very little.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/11/20 02:08 AM
3

Do you feel like this argument is all too often used to shut down unaddressed criticisms based on legitimate generalizations? "Default" things, like, the patriarchy theory, which most strands of feminism share.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/11/20 11:43 PM
2

Who are your male role models? Gomez Addams
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/11/20 02:22 AM
5

lmao
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/11/20 02:07 AM
5

Happy International Men's Day.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/11/20 02:07 AM
2

Maybe someone more patient than I am could try this with feminists. :P
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/11/20 12:12 AM
1

I think you were a touch too mild on the USSR, but I strongly agree with your conclusions. So far, the writers who expose the lies have been relatively dry academics like Steven Pinker and Helen Pluckrose, and their work is extremely important and necessary. But we need a writer with true poetry in his or her heart to take up Aleksandr's torch, and dissolve the shadows of lies. Yes, thank you for this point.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/11/20 11:37 PM
2

I think it was implied that I don't mean this one. EDIT: See the comment by the other MensLib regular in this thread: MensLib isn't really changing, but the appetite for conspiracy theories about them is fading away and acknowledgement of what that sub has always been is growing. Aaaaaaand... the comment he links, with an example disproving "conspiracy theories" is over five years old. If you want to make a compelling case than the 'slib is beacon of light in the fight against misandry, or even …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/11/20 07:41 PM
6

Shouldn't the sexist and discriminatory arguments be empathized and centered less?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/11/20 07:49 AM
3

If you get a chance and ask him if the vile moron still believes that the default caretaker doctrine is a great idea, and the father's rights movement is a dangerous distraction from fighting the patriarchy.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/11/20 07:18 AM
2

No, they are not just a bunch of simps looking to bow down to feminism, I have seen plenty of instances where they call out toxic feminism. Could you perhaps offer a concrete example? Maybe even two. An example of how they acted on their supposed value of men > feminism and took on reputational risk to advocate for men? And I don't mean disagreeing with someone current feminist mainstream has long cast aside, someone like Mary Koss. Because without example, this reads like wishful thinking.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/11/20 07:15 AM
3

Thank you. Have a good day.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/11/20 07:10 AM
5

OK. Yet, even so, the point about "self-selected from internet community X" vs "randomized + statistically representative of demography Y" is a big one.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/11/20 06:53 AM
7

I'm afraid I have to disagree. Most professionally conducted demographic polls that I know of used randomized, not self-selected samples, and included several thousand people.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/11/20 06:42 AM
3

I'll admit this comment was better than what I grew to except of the 'slib when visited it before. However, if you are a man discussing masculinity, that has to involve a measure of self-disclosure of personal vulnerability. How do you expect one to be vulnerable when engaging with a community where not even a portion of the user base is unrepentantly toxic, but the people running the fucking show pride themselves on being as misandric, smug, condescending, censorious, and devaluing towards men …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/11/20 06:40 AM
2

I am sorry, the sample size is too small for this to be taken seriously.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/11/20 06:27 AM
3

Does the AutoMod at the 'slib still remove any comment with the words "male disposability" in them, u/Skirt_Douglas, or would it is it unfair and misguided of me to ask?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/11/20 03:14 AM
5

This is not about you. This is about our dear opponents' persistent attempts to get people they dislike in trouble with the Reddit admins.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/11/20 01:20 AM
5

Wait, can you also do a take on how their mod's defense of primary caretaker child custody legislation is actually a sensible men's liberation position?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/11/20 01:18 AM
5

Does that make sense? No, not at all. The comment previous said that we don't view feminism as a monolith, it's just that nuance between different feminism is irrelevant. I think you are still missing my point. That comment you quote wasn't very intellectual or impeccably articulated, but it reflected a 100% correct attitude for an MRA to hold, practically speaking. So, say, imagine that in a moment of solidarity with you I admit that yes, (1) the feminist establishment is so incredibly diverse.…
/r/MensRights16/11/20 12:46 AM
3

Think you missed the point. I'm pretty sure I haven't. Have you been to sites like We Hunted The Mammoth? This is the amount of nuance most of us receive from pro-feminists, who simultaneously attempt to hold us to a higher standard than that. Also resentment and anger are different things. I strongly disagree. Most of what you see here isn't resentment, it's just anger. The point was it's hypocritical to go "all feminism bad" and then want people to recognize differences in of mens rights activ…
/r/MensRights16/11/20 12:20 AM
4

A cursory examination from my view shows that MRAs, Mgtow, and incels are all motivated by resentment towards women or just reacting to feminism rather than having their own ideology. I had some sympathy for your points before this, and intended to invite you to a non-right-wing community on men's issues, but then you argument degenerated into this. Guess what, men don't require a special license from you before being allowed to be angry at the injustices they suffer.
/r/MensRights16/11/20 12:10 AM
1

An interesting position. I didn't expect you to say that.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/11/20 11:15 PM
1

You kinda missed my point, but OK. So how do you support pro-women's equality causes in a way that isn't simultaneously enabling discrimination against men, such as opposition to father's rights by NOW?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/11/20 11:06 PM
1

How do you imagine a highly desirable man of opposite political views would describe you?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/11/20 10:57 PM
1

I find “male advocacy” to be a less polarizing term than “men’s rights” because it’s just focusing on unique issues that face men and not playing into a sort of “men are the oppressed ones and women are oppressors” sort of nuance-less narrative that people tend to think of. Finding ways to get through the propaganda that work is a good thing. Kudos!
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/11/20 09:59 PM
3

Is it any worse that "women are privileged because they can get sex any time?" Yes, by a lot, because quasi-religious feminist theory is taken as scientific by too many, while what you quote isn't.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/11/20 04:00 AM
1

Thanks for this.
/r/MensRights15/11/20 03:40 AM
2

This thread was better than most. Mods must have been on a vacation.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/11/20 03:09 AM
3

There is a lot of value in having a place for men who value sensitivity and good conversation, but are repulsed by the censorship, virtue-signaling and wrongthink-policing so characteristic of the 'slib.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/11/20 03:09 AM
3

Kindly check Removeddit before ranting about something like that.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/11/20 03:07 AM
2

And so far, anyone who has disagreed with me has done so intelligently and respectfully. Yeah, I wish my experiences were as civil as yours, but I'll take some idiot calling me a "cupcake" over pervasive feminist pandering and the censorship of the 'slib any day.
/r/MensRights15/11/20 01:50 AM
2

If you can't stomp them out, then maybe you can convert them. The evangelical era. That's what menslib is. It's a feminist space that claims to support men in order to siphon off some part of the men who are looking for answers, only to shove them into the same brutal structure that subordinates their issues to women's issues. That views all their problems through the lens of how each most negatively affects women or how it's their own fault. I would also add that this is a textbook Engulf, Embr…
/r/MensRights15/11/20 01:39 AM
2

Yeah. Those accounts are mostly so low-effort, that it's easy to spot them.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/11/20 09:44 AM
5

I get a lot of prostitute chat bots that fire off a couple of canned messages then ask me to leave my number for a "good time".
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/11/20 09:48 PM
1

Eclectic. Lots of varieties of metal, especially power, some classical music, varied jazz and blues, whatever genre Massive Attack and early Kraftwerk and Radiohead are, plus whatever puts me in the right headspace, even if that's 50 Cent. Feel free to ask for tracks.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/11/20 05:51 PM
4

Amazing resource, thank you, OP.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/11/20 02:13 AM
1

I know a lot of people want to. I think it has to do with capitalism and the desire to make workers interchangeable with each other and with objects. Here's the thing, though. This strongly reminds me of the pervasive attitude that women's issues happen to women because they are women, but men's issues happen to men because of globalism, capitalism, climate change, consumerism, imperialism... you name it, anything, anything at all, except systemic sexism against men. And I very much despise this…
/r/MensRights10/11/20 09:17 PM
1

I would, but the survey doesn't seem good-faith enough to bother.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/11/20 04:10 PM
2

Yup.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/11/20 03:54 PM
1

I have uBlock, HTTPS Everywhere and Privacy Badger.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/11/20 03:50 PM
3

Turnabout is fair play! EDIT: And it sounds like many of your questions may have been answered in the Myth of Male Power.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/11/20 02:52 PM
1

Maybe this survey platform hates privacy-enhancing extensions.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/11/20 02:51 PM
3

Yeah, I know. Sucks. EDIT: Disapproval of inter-party marriage is now higher than disapproval of inter-racial marriage! I didn't know about that, thought. Thanks!
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/11/20 03:46 AM
5

I'll upvote this, as you ask an interesting question, even if the execution is lacking. One thing I've noticed here compared to other men's rights spaces is that many people seem to be disconnected from the concept of masculinity. Ie, they don't have any. Well, what did you expect? The old definitions don't work that well anymore in modern society, and there isn't a new one yet that would be universally accepted yet (if that's even possible). Maybe this quote from Warren Farrel will help you: An…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/11/20 11:55 PM
39

NotCompletelyIronicLifeProTip: don't bother your friends with your pet political causes so much that they get completely fed up with you, and will likely never take your views seriously again. Being able to not talk about politics is an invaluable skill that I suspect many modern Americans lack.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/11/20 11:28 PM
1

Also, u/Aaod and u/OkLetterhead10, this looks 100% exactly like Michael Kimmel's standard-issue feminist rhetoric about "men have no movement of their own". EDIT: Tone.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/11/20 11:23 PM
1

When I say I don’t have enough spoons for something I’m mostly making fun of people who say that. OK. I looked this metaphor up, but the context of the joke was lost on me. I think when women try to help men you get things like toxic masculinity. I have an even less charitable interpretation: looks an awful lot like an Engulf, Embrace, Extinguish strategy, which Microsoft is famous for. People can do their own thing with feminism. It’s not like it was in the beginning when there were a few figur…
/r/MensRights08/11/20 11:13 PM
9

And meh, this is a weak take. A real hot take is: There is no such thing as "men". And double-standard is no different from what we've already been putting up for many years, the repeated insistence that men's problems exist on individual level, and should be addressed and discussed as such while women's are systemic and class-based. We most typically see this in how incels are discussed.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/11/20 01:10 PM
1

That I was still able to eventually gain understanding is as much to my credit as it is yours. Oh, my sincere thanks for that. I felt really bad about my "harrumphing" before, but now I'm better. You are correct that I should aim for clarity and provide more context. I'm not sure I have enough spoons for this. I wasn't familiar with that expression. (my apologies if my communication style was an additional drain on your mental energy) My intention, however imperfectly executed, was to highlight …
/r/MensRights07/11/20 06:16 PM
1

If I’m misinterpreting you try not to call me a moron and don’t be as uncharitable as possible so you have someone to yell at. Wait, I'm confused. Are we on speaking terms again somehow? Is this perhaps a sign of your acknowledgment that I might perhaps just maybe possibly made a good point or two, which aren't null and void merely because you disliked my tone? Please help, because I sincerely don't know what to think. Thanks. All of academia is on board. It’s captured institutions. Corporations…
/r/MensRights06/11/20 10:41 PM
10

You are correct, OP, and it seems to be a big practical problem in organizing. This is also a reason why we need to be more open to collaboration with MensRights side of the movement, hell, maybe even with the MensLib types... Women often see themselves as a unified social group that has class interests, while men do not. There were some good papers on the "in-group bias" that might shed light on why this happens, but I don't know a good answer to this problem.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/11/20 08:22 PM
13

Welcome, and please consult the link in the sidebar for a list of issues that most of us agree on, this one: https://www.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/wiki/missionstatement
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/11/20 08:08 PM
1

It still doesn't work in Firefox. EDIT: ...
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/11/20 05:49 PM
1

Thanks.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/11/20 03:14 PM
1

I believe the appropriate feminist expression is "cry me a river".
/r/MensRights06/11/20 09:34 AM
1

I guess I'm sexist... because... Yeah, good luck to anyone in finding common ground with you.
/r/MensRights06/11/20 04:09 AM
1

I hope to one day understand the trauma of people who are as blind, deaf and numb as you are.
/r/MensRights06/11/20 03:34 AM
1

Women are good at advocating for each other. I don't think you understand what blank slate thinking means, and I mean this in the nicest possible way, even if it doesn't sound so. It means that this difference is likely not caused by culture. ...and how much money could you all raise for one of these orgs? The state of you all. I am really glad that you completely missed my "soup kitchen metaphor" about the importance of systemic change and learned nothing (no, I am disappointed). Turns out, it'…
/r/MensRights06/11/20 03:20 AM
1

Would you all please develop some chill and stop rifling through people's deleted comments. As opposed to simply reading my goddamn inbox?! Gee, I am already feeling the effects of the famed feminist empathy for men! I wonder if you could address this? You keep thinking in blank slate ways. The fact is, women have a stronger in-group bias for their own sex, and it's probably biological. Men won't change themselves to be women so that you won't have to tackle hard moral questions. (Bonus points, …
/r/MensRights06/11/20 01:17 AM
1

NOW supported the suit to end selective service for men only. Women sued to be allowed in combat. NOW and its like have historically opposed every single fight for men's liberation where it could have generated a negative externality for women, no matter how improbable or slight. Look at how hard the feminists at MensLib stomp at each other's throats to avoid provoking this response in their overlords, and then ask yourself: "Could women's movement succeed in the past, if it imposed the same con…
/r/MensRights05/11/20 11:53 PM
2

I get frustrated when you all blame everything on feminism because it keeps you from getting shit done. Don't worry, most of us realize that there is no empathy to be seen from feminists, and no respect for truth to be expected when the truth doesn't immediately gratify your struggle for political power. This is how your tribe created a world where activists like Paul Elam are the ones who are effective, and I have no choice, but to begrudgingly support him. Men treated each other like shit befo…
/r/MensRights05/11/20 11:30 PM
1

I have a girlfriend who is vaguely a feminist in the sense that she wants gender equality for women and has a perception that feminism will help her achieve that, but unlike the more brainwashed types, she is blissfully unaware of the specific beliefs feminist ideology expects her to have, like using female-gendered language to talk about rape victims, or believing that the wrong kind of sexual jokes reinforce the "rape culture". I am OK with the first part, and grateful for the second, otherwis…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/11/20 10:24 PM
1

You all need women too. You have no solidarity or in group caring. You have empathy for women but not each other. You kill yourselves and each other. You send each other off to die in stupid pointless wars. Men send other men down to die in the mines. Did you become stupider and angrier after we had a conversation that upset you? You definitely used to have better, less dehumanizing and over-generalizing arguments.
/r/MensRights05/11/20 10:13 PM
3

This comic is like a perfect analogy for the stupidity of the current conversation around gender: it almost exclusively runs on overly simplistic, emotionally evocative overgeneralizing metaphors. Thanks. EDIT: It's also missing the last panel, where they killed the whole goddamn tree by bending it, and there is now no more apples.
/r/MensRights05/11/20 09:42 PM
2

Did you expect one question and a checkbox to take 8 minutes, or is there something bugged about the form, the way I'm seeing it? EDIT: In Firefox with Privacy Badger, it shows only the first question, then thanks you for participation. EDIT2: There is something extremely shoddily about how this survey is set up. I was able to see more questions when taking it through Chrome, but I have seen no sliding scale questions that people on MensRights subreddit are discussing. EDIT3: Something is defini…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/11/20 09:36 PM
8

That's the thing that enrages me most about the wide-spread acceptance of feminist theory: paying lip-service or regarding it as legitimate is seen as a mark of sophistication and good breeding in "polite society". However, if you know even the tiniest bit of philosophy of science, or trained in hard sciences, it is so goddamn obvious that their way of thinking is closer to theology, and has nothing to do with a scientifically literate worldview. EDIT: If you are curious about more intellectual …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/10/20 07:03 PM
1

We didn't "weed them out" as much as they were too adversarial and high-strung to get on with anyone else despite (a) the mods trying to help them find middle ground and stay, and (b) the official policy back then (and also today) being a "big tent" approach. I have to confess, on more a personal level, their black-and-white shenanigans repulsed me almost as much as the censorious and thought-policing behaviors of our guests from MensLib.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/10/20 06:44 PM
30

Oh, this poor oppressed (upper-)middle-class white supermodel living in a first world democracy, tolerating the fact that men exist must be so exhausting to put up with every day... This interview is one of those things you can't believe are real before seeing them.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/10/20 03:57 PM
1

I was also surprised, but a few actually did. It must have been all those pictures of mustaches! Plus, there were more "radical feminist" men's advocate types here when the community was smaller.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/10/20 03:47 PM
4

That's a good article. It is interesting to observe that this community have grown and evolved to the point where linking to AOM no longer gets you yelled at for "linking tradcon bullshit".
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/10/20 09:23 PM
1

Would be funny, if it wasn't so true.
/r/MensRights27/10/20 02:32 PM
1

Thanks.
/r/MensRights27/10/20 01:36 AM
1

It was posted just three years ago. Do you believe things have gotten substantially worse in the meantime? EDIT: I initially misunderstood this to mean that my post got removed by a moderator.
/r/MensRights27/10/20 01:31 AM
1

OK. Can you please clarify, is there something special about today, something wrong with this post, or is cross-linking it against some wider policy I'm not aware of?
/r/MensRights27/10/20 01:24 AM
16

You are going to be OK, but you need to learn to screen people you surround yourself with, and particularly romantic partners very carefully. In many places all over the world, it's not an established social norm for men to be treated adequately.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/10/20 07:21 PM
3

You don't have rights, get it?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/10/20 06:15 PM
17

The most functional, workable definition of misogyny as this term is actually used is "this is something I disagree with as a woman".
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/10/20 06:13 PM
2

You know what's the single most important thing that he could have, but didn't, couldn't say in that tirade? "That man's well-being was worth more to me than signalling my allegiance to the ideological tribe." You could express your goodwill by spending less of your group's collective time and energy stomping down on the throats of vulnerable men whose wrongthink threatens to get you in trouble with the feminist mainstream, but let's not get ahead of ourselves, shall we?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/10/20 06:07 PM
1

If she'd said "for the most part there is no female Jack the Ripper". She did not. If you want to dismiss Paglia for not being dry and technical, be my guest, but this doesn't make her wrong. No female Jack the Ripper? Au contraire mon sœur! If you want to understand what she meant by this, and why she is right, you could read about the variability hypothesis. It's a "hypothesis" in the same way gravity is a "theory".
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/10/20 10:30 PM
1

Seven is rookie numbers for a female serial killer, definitely below Mozart in notoriety. :P
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/10/20 08:09 PM
2

You are quite right, OP, in that (a) Camille Paglia is amazing, and (b) successful conversations with feminists require you to do something akin to comparative theology. This is what speakers you mentioned do well.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/10/20 08:08 PM
1

Good work, thank you.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/10/20 07:58 PM
3

"How much do you cost?" seems like a fitting response, and you can add "per hour" if you are feeling particularly done with this shit.
/r/MensRights18/10/20 06:11 AM
2

I like and largely agree with this review: https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/03/26/book-review-twelve-rules-for-life And no, I have no idea if Peterson is going to any help at solving systemic problems and discrimination facing men today, but it seems that his advice could help on an individual level.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/10/20 11:28 AM
1

Yes, message the mods. Also keep in mind that the moderation is biased in favor of pro-feminists, and some idiots like to provoke people to get them banned. But it's still not entirely useless.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/10/20 12:39 AM
1

Sounds like a weaponized spam filter alright.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/10/20 12:06 AM
1

I wouldn't call this chauvinism. And in general, I'd advise fellow male advocates to be more cautious with using terminology that gets them outright dismissed by moderate people with an interest in gender issues (a problem we seem to have right now). This, however, is a destructive double standard that any viable men's movement of the future will have to address: if men will continue having no say in how feminism works, all the while women continue to have a lot of power to dictate how men are a…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/10/20 06:14 AM
1

This is just a destructive side-effect of how their worldview works. EDIT: Also, WTF with this post being removed as spam? Is someone weaponizing Reddit spam-detection algorithms against us?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/10/20 06:07 AM
2

LOL.
/r/MensRights04/10/20 02:03 AM
24

In case the u/madrigalm50 is truthful when they claim to genuinely want to talk and understand the other side, I'll restate my position. Feminist advocacy, either by accident or design, works to maintain a situation where all resources currently available in a society to address gender equality issues are focused on women's issues, where these resources should be slit 50/50 between men's and women's issues. EDIT: Include ping.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/10/20 08:52 AM
5

I'm going to be a contrarian here and say that you are correct, u/hedgehog_0. This is not an argument against the men's movement as a whole, neither its necessity, nor its truthfulness, even if it's inevitably going to be misconstrued as one. Excessively focusing on the negativity is just not good for you, not matter how just your cause.
/r/MensRights03/10/20 07:49 AM
13

Feminists love to exploit their now-culturally dominant position to deprioritize men's issues. Despite the "we also care about men" platitudes, practically speaking, anti-anti-feminism is 100x more important than recognition for humanity of men. Empathy for male pain, support of men's issues, liberation of men, – no matter however you phrase this, it takes a second place at best to anti-anti-feminism. Was there a bill to reform the US alimony laws shot down despite bipartisan support? A fire ala…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/10/20 05:23 AM
1

OK. Fair enough. I don't want to believe you, but I'll admit that I'm biased, so this is, after all, still possible.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/10/20 03:40 AM
5

What do you think this implied obligation means for the future of the men's movement? When the women's movement was coming into their own, they were under no obligation to treat men well, but as men's advocates, we have to walk on eggshells around any topic that might make a woman uncomfortable. EDIT: Oh and beyond community and moderators, it's also up to individuals to disengage with fraudulent communities and to begin listening to the excluded. The issue here seems to be that an average MensL…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/10/20 02:40 AM
4

What do you think of their decision to ban men who were abused by women and consequently, may say things that make women uncomfortable, as it relates to their ability to help these men?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/10/20 02:24 AM
1

What lying are you talking about? Is this you trying to insult him over being a nonfeminist? I don't know him in life away from keyboard, so I don't know if he was really attacked by his girlfriend or not, but this post makes a very valid point. And what happened to believing victims? No longer necessary because he's a guy, is it?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/10/20 02:12 AM
2

Oh, so this is one of BlueOrange22's throwaway accounts? I remember thinking that he is more or less okay after seeing some of his content.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/10/20 01:57 AM
3

I'm so sorry to hear about this. I hope you are doing better now. Are you the guy from their story of a male victim of rape whom they banned for saying bad things about women?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/10/20 01:51 AM
6

Your assessment is correct, u/goldenjuniper. This likely stems from their internalization of the feminist theory of the patriarchy view of men as damaged and hegemonic creatures who can't stop hurting themselves, and therefore need to reinvent themselves. They will deny it to the end of the Earth, but their view is functionally: "Women's problems are created by men, a men's problems are also created for men." Double-serving of guilt with a side of misandry for you, dear! This is both extremely f…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/10/20 01:46 AM
1

His account is now suspended.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/10/20 01:24 AM
2

One of the first things refugees from the r/GenderCritical posted on their new sub was "ALL MEN ARE PEDOPHILES."
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/10/20 01:23 AM
1

This phenomenon is really simple, u/RamseySand. Unfortunately, it is also widespread. It is a classic hypocritical conundrum of a 21st-century Western woman who wants to have her cake and eat it too. On one hand, she wants emancipation from the past demands of women's traditional sex role with its rigid demands. Those sure suck! As one annoying feminist recently put it, "I don't want to do anything just because I'm a woman!" OK, whatever rocks your boat, honey. However, at the same time, she ado…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/10/20 01:21 AM
6

In response to this, I am looking forward to the "but existence of a statistical discrepancies in outcomes does not prove that discrimination is taking place" hot takes from the (pro-)feminist public. EDIT: Solid visualization, as always.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/09/20 11:05 PM
2

Just a shame that the majority of people who get off on reading these types of articles fail to notice... My impression is that most humans are sincerely trying to do their best, but have neither the free time nor mental energy to examine gender theorists' ideological crap more deeply. So reaching those who aren't high on ideology is eminently possible, and we should focus on that.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/09/20 11:02 PM
2

I think you can safely toss out "pro-" and "anti-feminist" bits out.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/09/20 10:58 PM
1

The article was an astronomically rare instance of a feminist trying to reconcile their theory with acknowledging male disposability, not another "the US is bad" take, but I likewise thank you.
/r/MensRights30/09/20 01:23 AM
1

OK. It is possible I was swept up by the "military bad" talking point, because it alluded to something I liked. Thanks for the conversation.
/r/MensRights28/09/20 04:16 PM
1

I didn't get this story from media originally, but as one of the "patriarchy hurts men too" stories that I found relatively believable, but I can see your point. Thank you for the elaboration. However, if I am to interpret your story at face value (and I really want to), I am a little confused whether your boss would really want to talk about this on the internet.
/r/MensRights28/09/20 07:19 AM
1

Your comment is admirably civil, but vague to the point I'm no sure what is it you are saying. But know that when you see a comment like "all military-age males are considered combatants" that is applied to a very specific time and place. Are you saying that you are confident the overwhelming majority of those killed by done strikes were actually enemy combatants (if so, please clarify what are you basing this on), or not?
/r/MensRights28/09/20 05:20 AM
3

Funny how people like you seamlessly switch from a rhetoric of social welfare and compassion when talking about women to a rhetoric of personal responsibility (which you would ordinarily mock a right-winger for using) when you talk about men. An astute observation. A while ago we discussed consequences of violating codes of conduct, and his thinking was exactly the same: "actions have consequences, and it's time for X to accept that", because X was a cishet white guy who was being excluded. I th…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/09/20 04:05 AM
1

Are you telling me none of the below is real? After interviewing dozens of current and former White House advisers, the New York Times breaks a lot of news in its story on President Obama's secret kill list, perhaps none of it more jaw-dropping than new details describing how the U.S. now calculates the number of innocents killed by our drones. What innovative method did our Nobel Peace Prize-winning president implement? "It in effect counts all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants,…
/r/MensRights28/09/20 03:01 AM
1

I don't doubt your credentials, but this isn't how the Obama administration did it when it came to drone strikes. Please look it up, it's a real incident.
/r/MensRights27/09/20 10:02 PM
1

She's no Karen DeCrow, but she avoided falling into some of the most common victimhood feminism traps of of her time. This is worth celebrating.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/09/20 05:28 PM
2

You are most welcome.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/09/20 03:30 PM
1

Got those two. I also remember Wendy McElroy.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/09/20 03:29 PM
1

I'll take what I can get.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/09/20 03:28 PM
1

Sure.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/09/20 03:28 PM
1

It brings me hope to see your work here. This reminds me of one of the few feminist criticisms of the men's movement that isn't hopelessly morally bankrupt and is largely true: Fourth, and most importantly, movements are supposed to move. Hey, wait a second, let me yell again. MOVEMENTS ARE SUPPOSED TO MOVE. I look around the men’s rights movement and you know what I see? Some two-person protests where someone pretends to be Batman, some petitions that can’t gather a thousand signatures, a few a…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/09/20 11:11 PM
35

Far and away the most irksome. Michael Crichton writes a book about a woman sexually harassing a man (yeah, happens all the time); men go on talk shows to reveal that they too are being battered (uh-huh, the fact that statistics overwhelmingly indicate it's husbands who are pummelling wives means doodly squat); foreskin-deprived crybabies form groups to discuss the cruelness that is circumcision (and compare it to female genital mutilation in Third World countries). These boys have co-opted the …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/09/20 11:00 PM
5

You had me before the 'toxic masculinity' part. EDIT: Is it really necessary to invoke a term that is so often abused, misused and plainly weaponized as a cudgel against men?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/09/20 10:14 PM
2

Thank you.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/09/20 10:09 PM
1

Please share the names of others, in case some of us don't know them. I think reading those feminists who aren't myopic and morally bankrupt helps you see things in a more balanced way.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/09/20 10:06 PM
1

👍
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/09/20 12:48 PM
4

the general gist I'm getting is that she screwed you all up by not retiring when Obama was still president because she wanted to have Hillary make the choice for the next supreme court justice. This is the essence of what is being talked about in many other places and articles.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/09/20 12:18 PM
1

I am sure you would have seen somebody do similar. Yeah, the Bed of Procrustes approach, only motivated by political power-seeking. Quite unpleasant.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/09/20 04:16 AM
1

You are quite right: this only applies to feminists in a "second-hand smoke" sort of way, but I have personally noticed parallels. Many who aren't explicitly woke still find debate in an environment they don't control either morally bad, or unwinnable, or otherwise undesirable. I haven't been following the media side of your argument closely enough to comment on the rest.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/09/20 04:01 AM
2

See, if I responded in kind, I could just say that it's your misandry talking. And then, how'd you argue with that? We'd be talking past each other. If you want to understand the view why defining unpleasant behavior of others in this way ("there are no valid reasons to think like this, you are just driven by stark, raving hatred, you bigot!") is a bad way to understand people, and a good way to dehumanize them, perhaps you could read this: https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/06/21/against-murderism…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/09/20 03:36 AM
1

You go gurrrrrrrl! And that's how you fight the Patriarchy. By being deaf to people with opposing points of view. EDIT: So long and thanks for all the fish. I hope you will remember this. End quote. To be frank, most of the value I got from this conversation came from discussing it with someone who actually cared. About me, and about men's and women's issues both.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/09/20 01:18 AM
1

We could easily live in a universe that came to different conclusions. Yeah! You are right, we could be easily living in a universe where during the ~12,000 years of primate civilization the dominant cultures evolved to send many of their females to die in wars and then exploited them in dangerous low-skilled occupations, and there didn't have to be any gender difference in variability of traits. And these societies also replenished their population by budding. Or I don't know, maybe their econo…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/09/20 01:08 AM
1

What are you expected to do because you have a penis that isn't a social convention? Besides having your contribution to reproduction being rather underwhelming. I similarly beg forgiveness for my mistaken belief that you either cared about gender equality or had interest in dialogue across "party lines" on this topic.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/09/20 12:37 AM
1

So this is me "losing my shit"? OK, boomer.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/09/20 12:33 AM
31

The choice bits of the article: If Ginsburg’s collegiality with conservatives was notable, so was her sense of true equality and partnership with men. Her criticism of sexism never devolved into attacks on males. Indeed, some notable cases in which she challenged discriminatory laws as an attorney involved discrimination against men — for instance, widowers whose wives had been the primary breadwinners but who were denied Social Security benefits. Obviously, Ginsburg believed that ending anti-ma…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/09/20 12:19 AM
2

There's a very good explanation for this (here: https://newdiscourses.com/2020/07/woke-wont-debate-you-heres-why). How directly this relates to feminists, as opposed to SJ types in general varied year to year. My impression is that lately, this Venn diagram strongly overlaps.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 11:24 PM
1

You are right. Getting to that level is a success of epic proportions.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 10:43 PM
2

But this is really an issue in feminism that can only be worked out if the conversation goes on without them. They honestly believe that they can hold it hostage until they get agreement. I don't think your explanation covers 100% of this matter, but probably 50%, and you are correct. It seems this unnamed group wants to strong-arm their political power to make sure than on any big, influential platform with a lot of visibility (which starts to include Reddit on subreddits with, say, ten thousan…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 10:14 PM
1

I absolutely agree that debating outside your bubble is important. Yet I'm not convinced that it's really the lack of civil, moderated spaces to do so in that's the limiting factor. Too many people involved just don't want such a debate. Like, a lot of people on one side I won't name only wants to to debate you unless their tribe sets the rules to run the show by. There are enough counter-examples to implicate any tribes on this one, but I think you can see my point.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 08:14 PM
1

Might be good for a laugh, if I had any idea what the fuck you were talking about. This is what the radicals call themselves to appear more presentable, particularly the second wave heavyweights, "radical liberalizationists". It's odd that you haven't heard the term. Yeah, its an "inconvenience" to be seen as evil and ugly through guilt by association. Yeah, I guess it's nice that you could finally sympathize with my experience of interactions with feminism and feminist women. A pity it took thi…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 07:21 PM
1

That's not how defense mechanisms work.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 07:19 PM
2

I added my opinion about why feminists aren't on femradebates. They aren't on anywhere else where they don't completely run the show, either.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 07:15 PM
2

What are you expected to do because you have a penis that isn't a social convention? Oh, so male disposability and the expectation to be okay with a myriad ways in which my life is valued less is suddenly a-okay because it's a mere "social convention"? Look who suddenly turned a gender traditionalist (but for men only) after getting a little upset! I think socialization happens from our earliest moments so what is our biological destiny and what is decided for us is a process of understanding. Y…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 07:13 PM
1

Oh wait, you can't. You are missing the point. My previous comment was annoying, so it's understandable, and I sympathize. But I want you to get it before we move on, so I'll stress it again: when it comes to discussion of gender, it's all collectivist thinking, all the time, with fancy theory to support it... Yet when a feminist comes here to cry about being dog-piled, then suddenly old school is back in fashion, and everyone must be treated as an individual. I would say it's more like men and …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 06:48 PM
2

Of course! This is absolutely true. You only need to define "hate" as "something that could inconvenience a woman, or make her worse off" for this argument to work. And then all else logically follows, and MRAs promote hate, because equal treatment of men does indeed, at times inconvenience women, who are used to preferential treatment in some spheres of life. EDIT: Easy-pearsy, u/goldenjuniper.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 06:27 PM
1

Thank you for reminding me of your human qualities that lead me to block you the first time. EDIT: And yes, go have a nice day.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 06:21 PM
1

I think somehow feminists want any man to be a stand in for what makes them angry about patriarchy. FTFY It is funny how you don't see the parallels. Then further, a widespread argument about how all men are responsible for and benefit from the system of violence and intimidation committed by some of us, and therefore, it's our moral duty to hold our predatory brothers responsible for their bad behavior. But hey, for you – methodological individualism all the way down. You are only responsible f…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 06:19 PM
1

It's funny that this argument about feminism going wrong has to have capitalism as the culprit, and not the feminist movement itself running out of meaningful and achievable goals.
/r/MensRights24/09/20 06:00 PM
1

Yes, this is why I don't call myself a feminist on Reddit. That's the thing, thought. You don't call yourself a feminist on Reddit, because it would inconvenience you. However, despite all of the above mentioned ugliness and evil behavior, the implication is that you are still a feminist outside of Reddit... I have no love for liberal feminism... Is that suppose to be a moment where you tell me that you are a "liberationist" and I turn to embrace the radical feminism due to its refreshing honest…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 05:21 PM
1

You were taking offense to how people keep expecting you to do so the moment you announce that you are a feminist. I think, I gave a pretty decent explanation why that may be unpleasant to you, but not unreasonable at all. EDIT: And I meant defense as in psychological defense mechanism.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 05:13 PM
2

Feminists don't think that being female means a woman has to do or be anything. It's one of those cases where you successfully produced a slogan that pulls at heartstrings instead of answering the damn question. This is an insanely lenient interpretation of feminist beliefs, and even it doesn't hold. We are all expected to do something based on who we are. Seeking to reduce this burden sounds noble on paper, but it has very little to do with the history of the feminist movement, as it appears to…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 05:10 PM
1

it adds to my feminist beliefs "There's all that bad, floofy gray evil wolf institutional feminism out there, with which I share a label, and which I [likely] effectively support by voting or charitable giving, but my own feminism is all nice and not at all like that!" I know that's not 100% fair towards you to put it like that, but in the end of the day, it's not "your feminism" that's going to teach the theory, spread propaganda in the media, build up tribalism, and lobby for legislation chang…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 04:58 PM
1

Yeah, tortes-maggotes. Thank you for your self-awareness, and for your insightful contribution to this discussion. (No.) Look, I didn't know highlighting your name would ping you from a different subreddit. Have a nice day.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 04:47 PM
1

Nope. It was that you shouldn't deliberately provoke people to get them in trouble, then act indignantly self-righteous about it. Bye.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 04:48 AM
1

I'm sure you got my point already, if you were going to. Have a nice day.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 04:45 AM
1

Funny thing, that's exactly what I was trying to explain to you.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 04:41 AM
1

Yeah, I liked that argument too, when I was a teenager who loved to get a rise out of people. But you know, at some point I grew up, and I recommend it.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 04:38 AM
1

I heard feminists shrieking like mad over being banned from there, so it's not all one-sided, but yeah, it was bad. If by 'dog piled' you mean the Fractals girl, she's alright. Try to treat her well.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 04:37 AM
1

Well, I did have one tier that I deserved, maybe even two. You did guess right that I don't like complacency and rules. It wouldn't mean that much to me, but maybe you should just admit at some point that you were there to provoke people whose gender politics you disagree with. You know what they say, self-awareness is good for your soul. I blame the mods for falling to it more than I do you, anyway.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 04:03 AM
1

I personally believe that when the moderation system is as imbalanced as r/FeMRADebate's was, someone like you will always comes along to exploit it for a bully's delight. Have a nice day.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 03:49 AM
1

I'm a guy who got swept up in your "let's provoke and then get ban people who, I think, may be anti-feminist" at r/FeMRADebates. And I have your permission to talk about! That's so generous.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 03:45 AM
1

Yeah. Although I was pretty crass with him at the perceived mistreatment when I was banned, I wouldn't want his job either. But I think you may be wrong on the first part. There's probably enough user reports to fit the biases in any direction.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 03:42 AM
1

Also femradebates went private so I am hoping I can pick up people from that sub. What happened there? Did their remaining mod, biased as he was, burned out?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 03:08 AM
1

Unfortunately, this is not the case. Their propaganda tactics are often quite refined. Try this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VefECwF7AHk In the Munk Debate on Gender, the two feminists out-argued Camille Paglia that men are indeed, obsolete.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 02:59 AM
1

Many thanks, this is a very interesting observation. The bias of their head mod u/tbri could be explained relatively benevolently by the few feminists who still want to talk to the other side coming to complain to him. With how rarely most of them talk to nonfeminists, the bar for what counts as abuse is low. And with how few of them are around, he happily obliges. In the end, the preferential treatment is "cried out", and we end up with u/Mitoza.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 02:44 AM
2

Things like patriarchy come from biological differences. It's funny you would say so. Camille Paglia, for example, is quite sure that the sorry way the modern feminist movement ended up is largely explainable by how it the 1960s or so it was rounded up from people whose training was solely in the English department, so they had no idea about biology. This seems very plausible, as the majority of the feminist thought is very aggressively blank slatist.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 02:34 AM
1

Fun fact: ML used to ban any post or comment containing the words "male disposability" until recently. Maybe still does. EDIT: How do you reconcile your belief that it adds to feminist thought with the fact that profeminist-enough-to-be-a-head-of-NOW-chapter Warren Farrel's efforts to promote it among feminists didn't go anywhere after what, three decades? It's kind of funny that Paul Elam was more of a men's advocacy success story of than Farrel, which the former, I believe, acknowledged at a c…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 02:17 AM
1

I don’t use the label where people have twisted it into what it means to them rather than what it means to me. To continue my comment above, that has proven to be another enormous obstacle in talking to feminists. (and no, I don't mean (a), the fact that most feminists seem to want the social power to bar you from saying anything objectionable instead of debating. Neither do I mean (b), the way the women's movement worked the public opinion for decades to recast the most common criticisms agains…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 02:15 AM
2

It’s not so much that. Feminists can stand on their own two feet. It’s that feminists have to spend too much time disavowing every thing any feminist has ever done. I am always glad to see you here, but I'm afraid this view just doesn't hold water. When you talk to feminists, there often appears to be some sort of magic in play, making it so that the positive parts of feminism are defined in a way that's universal and generalizeable to the whole movement, but whatever any given negative is, it m…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/09/20 01:42 AM
2

Compare to feminist subs where they mostly ban people who question feminism or TERFs. The men's movement not being as dogmatically thick-headed and awful to their dissenters as the full-timer feminists are... I'd like to think that we can hope to reach a little higher standard than that. They aren't required to have "nuance" in everything and can make hyperboles and it won't be much of a deal. On some feminist subs, statements like "all men are pedophiles" are a-okay. When it comes to ML, their …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/09/20 03:45 AM
2

We all need good news, and this is a glimmer of light. Thank you.
/r/MensRights21/09/20 01:56 AM
1

They appear to avoid discussing any issue which could jeopardize their good political standing as progressives, and appear to view this as a greater threat than pretending those problems don't exist ,and not addressing the suffering caused by these issues. Unless the ML is secretly motivated by the view of feminists as a terrifying New World Order-esque force, whose orthodoxy they just have to obey to the letter, lest it considers them bad, misbehaving boys and devours them whole, digesting them…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/09/20 11:30 PM
1

But shouldn't they goal of the left be to help men to be the best they can be? I think that's supposed to be humanism, which is bipartisan (just how I want men's movement to be), but apparently reality has more layers than that.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/09/20 11:13 PM
1

I don't see how there's any evidence to believe that the right-wing thinking is going to take over everything long-term. If the men's movement is dominated by MRAs for a time, so be it. And you are not meaningless. ;)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/09/20 10:53 PM
1

I believe that in this situation the following is helpful, from an emotional perspective, and for the sake of rationality: remind yourself that they are just another numerous, powerful group closely aligned with the current status quo. They like to picture themselves as progressives, persecuted, or men unafraid to re-imagine themselves (while others are "too afraid"). However, in reality, when it comes to social sciences academia, intelligentsia, or other white collar parts of society, they are …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/09/20 09:42 PM
4

I'm open to the possibility that there is more to this guy than what he has shown me, but this: I don't think MensLib is misandric. Make me think we don't have much in terms of either shared values, or shared understandings of facts to have a conversation. I sincerely hope it's the latter. Just browse any of their "important" threads through Removeddit.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/09/20 08:36 PM
1

It's relevant OP, thanks for sharing.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/09/20 08:05 PM
2

We both know that neither I am your friend, nor you wish me well, and your not being a mod is not relevant. You are one of those whose continued efforts make ML's misandric atmosphere, which would make Michael Kimmel proud, what it is today. EDIT: And if you still can't understand this: Yet we seem to empathize with and understand women’s complaints more freely than men’s. Why? Consider looking up a paper on gender differences in moral typecasting that was recently a pinned thread on MR. Cheers.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/09/20 06:59 PM
1

Good for you if those words are true, but actions speak louder, and I find your words a bit hard to believe given how you run the ML.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/09/20 06:49 PM
3

"But only partially. Since you know, we are in ML." :P
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/09/20 06:47 PM
0

We know you are one of the faithful of the hyper-woke tribe.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/09/20 06:47 PM
2

Part of a reason why I think that Phyllis Schlafly defeating the ERA was more of a good thing, and not a bad thing for real-world gender equality.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/09/20 06:25 PM
1

He's a changed man this days, no more wrongthink. I guess that's what a powerful enough echo-chamber tends to do to your thinking, if you aren't careful: people want to belong.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/09/20 06:20 PM
1

This is not about options, but about the process each of us uses to determine what counts as facts and evidence. I suspect there's a dramatic difference.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/09/20 05:40 PM
1

Agree Agree That's pretty suspect, exactly what my initial comment was meant to indicate.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/09/20 04:11 PM
1

I knew you disagreed with blank slatism, and I image you loosely agree with this one (with some caveats): - If men already experience structural problems, it is not because of women (let alone feminists!) but because of that same patriarchy that they themselves have created, but which also works against them, especially because it doesn't allow them to express their feelings; But what about these zingers: - We live in a male-dominated society, also called "patriarchy," which is constructed to em…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/09/20 02:47 PM
1

I'm sorry, I don't understand what this comment means (literally).
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/09/20 06:56 PM
3

Look up gender bias in moral typecasting. The author is probably exploiting it, whether knowingly or not.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/09/20 01:02 AM
2

Someone likely in need of re-familiarizing yourself with current non-feminist scientific thinking on gender differences?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/09/20 12:59 AM
2

Have you seen the recent research paper on moral typecasting that was a pinned thread on MR? Political feminists grossly benefited from abusing this bias (which is probably biological in nature) for more political power with all the pithy slogans, like "man alone in the room full of women is horny, woman alone in the room full of men is terrified" (probably slightly paraphrasing). While a normal average person knows full well that this isn't how people behave, there is a "women and children firs…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/09/20 12:57 AM
1

It's nice to see you post here.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/09/20 09:19 PM
3

Yep!
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/08/20 09:42 PM
4

Please consider making an email or RSS subscription for your stuff at some point. Those are very useful for reaching people who aren't as extremely online as many redditors.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/08/20 09:34 PM
1

There are many images with a license that allows non-commercial reuse, you can filter those with Google. I think a shape like this would look lovely (don't know about that image's license, though).
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/08/20 09:24 PM
2

This is cool, u/Kuato2012, but a feather with this shape, presented at an angle is strongly associated with (journal) writing. Maybe there is something more like this would be better? We'd have to find an image with a license allowing non-commercial usage, though.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/08/20 08:38 PM
1

Probably something to do with all the mass murder.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/08/20 08:24 PM
5

You are doing good work. Thank you.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/08/20 08:17 PM
5

Sorry, I don't know of any good egalitarian-leaning resources. You may need to go wider on this one. Most men who post sympathetically on men's loneliness tend to be feminist-adjacent, and even the relatively "good" kind of feminists loves the weaponized oversimplification implied by this concept.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/08/20 01:17 PM
9

There'll be misandrist feminists and 'patriarchy hurts men too'-feminists, and the latter will use the former as scapegoats to prove they're not that bad themselves. I completely agree, and that's the point I was also making for a long time. The epistemic dishonesty seems to be baked into their movement's playbook: when it's time to speak to the UN, Emma Watsons and the other "feminism is for everybody" types will take center stage, and every feminist who privately disagrees with this definition…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/08/20 01:05 PM
13

We need to give up the rhetoric of "feminists have to do X" as a movement, because they are absolutely not going to do X, unless it also benefits women in some way, and even then, X is only happening reluctantly, slowly and with opposition of a major part of the movement. This is wishful thinking, and desiring their approval just isn't realistic. We need to think about how we are going to act, organize and get more people on our side while continuing to face the same level of opposition and host…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/08/20 12:54 PM
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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