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mikado12 Archive

View 3 posts and 149 comments by mikado12 on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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Upvotes Title Category Author Subreddit Date (UTC)
1

mikado12/r/askTRP08/02/14 08:41 PM
1

mikado12/r/AlreadyRed09/03/14 09:58 PM
0

mikado12/r/seduction22/08/13 09:14 PM
Upvotes Comment on Subreddit Date (UTC)
2

I'm not really sure what you're saying here, other than, "The purpose of going out to the bar is to get laid, so getting laid is the best end result for that situation." That's not exactly a tautology, but it doesn't add much to the conversation either, especially if we're talking ethics. No, I'm saying the club/bar scene is fundamentally it's own little realm of human activity. Different realms, as described above, entail different standards of correct behavior. And by correct I don't necessari…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/14 03:56 PM
4

Bit of a drunken rambling here: Alright, well, I guess that's checkmate - you're apparently more well read in TRP theory than I. But it's one thing to agree with something on an abstract level and quite another to support it when speaking concretely. I can imagine a lot of Terpers might think "well, morality is just a social construct, the opium of the masses" etc. but when it comes down to real, raw, brutal conduct most of TRP will quickly disapprove. I'm not just speculating, one TRP mod got s…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/14 01:35 AM
3

The moral framework is latent. TRPers sometimes call themselves amoral but a well written post concerning how to "cultivate masculine virtues" or something like that will always be well received. One reason TRP is far from Kant is the tendency within TRP to compartmentalize which stands in opposition to Kant's universalism. You always need to filter when a post is merely referring to sexual dynamics or whether it's aiming at something larger. A lot of TRP agrees that sexual strategy is amoral, b…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/14 06:48 PM
1

This is a good post. Is this by any chance drawn from a paper on the Iliad? If so, I'd be interested in reading it. Don't let them get to you.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/14 06:33 PM
19

In Israel I visited the grave of a Jewish female paratrooper, who in WWII parachuted into Nazi Germany with the intent of sabotaging supply lines. She was caught, tortured, and finally executed when she refused to leak any information. TRP has plenty of good material floating around on how to handle plates or become a better man, but this isn't one of them. edit: I haven't heard much about the relationship between women and honor on TRP regardless.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/14 04:55 PM
3

Alpha traits do tend to attract women, but we shouldn't explicitly define alpha traits as traits that women like because that would leave our self-worth and self-conception entirely in the hands of women. We cultivate alpha traits because alpha traits are awesome and manly - women like that; we just don't cultivate alpha traits to make women like us more.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/14 05:56 PM
15

Alpha/beta is a spectrum, not a dichotomy. Most people fall somewhere in between pure alpha and pure beta, but you'll find people at the extremes. It's not arbitrary, alpha traits are essentially leadership traits and beta traits are essentially the traits of a content follower. The labels aren't determined by what women find attractive either - you not being attracted to John Wayne doesn't make him any less alpha.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/14 02:23 PM
12

Absolutely, conversation with women should be light and breezy. Intellectual conversation just isn't sexy, and it's a waste of time to try to engage a lot of people even aside from women on that front. You should be very careful about who you open yourself up to.
/r/TheRedPill21/04/14 08:54 PM
3

I could at least finish yours. I'm struggling to finish this episode. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuTjFcHE2WI
/r/TheRedPill19/04/14 07:08 PM
5

As he is a mod of /r/theredpill I am taking his opinion to be representative of RPers. I don't believe this. Honor is a quality of worthiness/respectability, and yes, women are capable of having it as well as men, but it's earned in both cases.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/04/14 09:38 PM
9

Yes, we like to think that we learn from history.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/04/14 02:20 PM
1

Eh, RP is pro-self improvement but when you begin labeling the movement as "selfish" or "individualist" you're losing me. I don't see it as being collectivist or individualist - why would we be giving advice to other men in the first place if we were purely selfish? Wanting to bring out the masculinity in someone isn't what comes to mind when I think "selfish" or "individualistic."
/r/PurplePillDebate15/04/14 11:59 PM
1

I'm in the Air Force, I'll be taking a test next week to see whether I qualify to become an officer or pilot. I'm pretty excited. I think virtually any military man needs to have at least some sympathy for the RP emphasis on reviving the masculine virtues.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/04/14 02:42 PM
2

If your height is your biggest obstacle consider yourself very fortunate.
/r/askTRP12/04/14 02:13 AM
2

I'm a pacifist: I oppose initiating the use of force. I am strongly anti-war. Pacifism is generally defined as a complete rejection of warfare. Would you defend yourself if your country was attacked or if you were mugged?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/14 09:02 PM
1

I think what he's trying to ask is if everything is determined what are your grounds for rewarding those who are good or display "talent" when what that is is nothing more than the pre-determined motion of atoms.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/14 03:04 PM
5

I couldn't argue with him but, it was what my uncle, a former womanizer, said that left me thinking. He said "That group is like one of those girl magazines. It's filled with a bunch of articles showing you how to be pretty by implying that your not. The minute you buy into it you're saying you're no good. And all that crying. Are they crying that they can't get any girls but calling them evil whores? That makes no sense. Times change you either roll with it or you get left behind." I can see th…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/14 03:17 PM
2

Every man needs a goal, something to strive towards. You're really lucky because the oil industry is both lucrative and alpha, and you have an immediate in with your dad. I agree with the other posters who say you're best bet (or a really good one in any case) is to enter the industry with the help of your dad. Maybe women can respect someone just for being rich, but men won't once they learn where it came from. You need something.
/r/askTRP08/04/14 08:10 PM
0

Be more specific, TRP theory covers a lot of things.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/04/14 04:29 AM
10

You haven't established yourself as a beta male. An alpha male could be 100 lbs, it's not about your physique or your face but rather your presence, mindset, and behaviors.
/r/askTRP05/04/14 03:59 AM
1

Wouldn't this have a significant effect on superficial levels of attraction too? We need to distinguish between short term and long term. I've always been a short term guy, not looking for anything long term, so I really haven't dealt with any of this first hand. One would think there would be some inherent disadvantages to forming any sort of long term partnerships with someone that way. Yeah, I can see that. However, I can't really infer much about my prospective SO from the fact that her peer…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/14 07:29 PM
1

I'd think of attractiveness as like the main measurement that's going to to get you "into the game." After that, yeah, if you start dating or seeing each other these other things do start to matter but the more short term it is generally the less they do. It does vary from guy to guy, but I'm personally not concerned with whether Stacey is more popular than June. Group membership is usually minimal unless there's some extreme difference, and I'd say posture factors into attractiveness.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/14 03:39 PM
2

I wouldn't say betas necessarily have low social skills, that's more of an omega trait. Betas are often quite friendly and are deeply attuned to the feeling of the room and they'll act to improve it. Above all, alpha and beta are just a set of personality traits. We mostly just judge women by attraction, I don't know about other guys but I'm not aware/don't really care about the intricacies of women's social status unless there's some red flag that comes up.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/14 03:18 PM
7

I would milk the fuck out of betas - free drinks, gifts, everything. I'd be the most hypergamous cunt on the planet, and while internally understanding RP I'd still deny the fuck out of it in conversation. I think I'd be pretty brutal.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/03/14 10:48 PM
2

I'd honestly think the man was broken or at least deeply flawed. The premise behind TRP is that masculinity is good, that it's something to be pursued and worked towards and developed in men. If this "man" is getting off to getting cuckolded/degraded then there's just something wrong with him, not to say it's necessarily his fault or that he's to blame. At first I agreed with a lot of the RP guys here - it is "their choice" but I think one can accept that and still be capable of laying judgment.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/14 01:08 AM
1

So on the one hand, TRP's anger reaction might be a perfectly normal reaction to discovering that life is not as balanced as it might be, but it doesn't do anything to address the problem and sustaining that sort of maliciousness that makes everyone worse off- and it also can even normalize the problem. I'll agree with you that anger does not directly do anything to solve the problem that life is not as balanced as it might be, so I'm sympathetic to your perspective that anger is unproductive. B…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/03/14 07:01 PM
6

There was an important thread on TRP a while back which talked about the stages that people went through after swallowing "the pill." It started with anger and ended with acceptance, and I'd bet if you talked to the TRP mods or the endorsed contributors you'd find that most of them have an attitude of acceptance as opposed to anger. It's also about how you read the language: threads about female solipsism or hypergamy aren't meant to be declarations of war against the female sex...I don't know, …
/r/PurplePillDebate23/03/14 09:39 PM
7

but the undeniable women hate is just so counterproductive. This is in part because a lot of MRAs are mixed in under the TRP banner. It's one of those rarely discussed matters, but MRAs and the social conservatism of TRP are actually deeply philosophically at odds - the MRAs sometimes write like they want to destroy traditional femininity (and the "double standards" that come with it), while the real TRPers generally want to maintain feminine difference.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/03/14 09:10 PM
3

This is going to sound a little harsh, but compassion isn't an alpha trait. Yes, you can be compassionate and an alpha but compassion isn't necessary to being an alpha. The thing about "alpha-ness" or masculinity (I use the terms interchangeably because "alpha" is basically pure masculinity) is that it's distinct from goodness or well being. An alpha can be a dick or a tyrant. TRP with its emphasis on alpha-ness seeks to get men in touch with their masculinity, nothing beyond that. In other word…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/03/14 05:41 PM
1

His strength, his power, confidence - the things that attracted him to her in the first place.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/03/14 02:51 PM
3

I'll grant that BP philosophy is something for the purpose of the discussion. To a large extent I grew up in a "blue pill" household: mother led, father followed. What always struck me was the lack of male guidance: it's easy if you're female - sexual liberation, fighting gender roles, etc. but when it comes to men - nothing. My impression of blue pill theory is that it's generally uncomfortable if not hostile to male sexuality, and in practice often leads to a miserable, sterilized sex life wit…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/14 09:26 PM
1

Which is an issue for me. Then it must be hard for you. You know terms like "normative" or "intrinsic value" have different meanings across academic fields; are you only willing to abide by the language that your concentration chooses? Do you completely reject the jargon used by other fields? Masculinity is associated with high levels of testosterone. The discussion about testosterone is relatively recent to discussions of masculinity. We were able to meaningfully and productively discussion mas…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/14 04:56 PM
1

But masculinity =/= social dominance. That's what I'm getting at. That's why I'm confused. We know. Different words mean different things in different contexts. Since when is intelligence a masculine trait? Masculine traits are associated with higher testosterone. Intelligence is associated with lower testosterone. Man controls his environment, how is he to do that without intelligence? Part of being capable is being intelligent.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/14 05:07 AM
3

"Alpha" is born out of a discussion of masculinity. Basically, if you examined masculinity and tried to boil it down to its purest form you'd get "alpha." Some cultures may favor some parts of it (say, intelligence) over others (brawn, testosterone, etc) but these things change.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/14 03:22 AM
2

There's no contradiction. High testosterone is an alpha male quality - when I say "confidence is alpha" I'm saying it's an alpha trait, not that confidence alone makes you alpha. High testosterone alone doesn't make you alpha, intelligence alone doesn't make you alpha. Even if we grant the fact that there's a negative correlation between intelligence and testosterone, it doesn't mean that a man needs to choose between one or the other.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/14 02:54 AM
2

This is a good topic to explore. Different terms take on different meanings within different groups, and the gist of it in TRP is that alpha is masculine. So now we're into a discussion of masculinity, it actually gets pretty interesting from here but I'm definitely of the opinion (as I think most TRPers would be) that intelligence is alpha, although in TRP the brand of intelligence favored tends to be more practical, know-how as opposed to theoretical.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/14 02:43 AM
4

There was a post about this on TRP recently - how the trend has been away from game and more towards developing a TRP worldview. There's definitely a PUA foundation to it as you've noted, but the emphasis has shifted from the PUA focus on "fake it til you make or" or "apply these methods" towards "make yourself better." I agree with the shift, since good game shouldn't be artificial - it should be you developing a better side of you, not being fake.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/03/14 08:55 PM
1

I don't mean to be picky here, but I think calculating "every possible scenario" is a little unrealistic. I'm a tournament level chess player, and I just need to add that even if you can calculate well there will be a point where it falls apart. Sure, if you're brilliant you can calculate 8 moves ahead but what if there's some cheap tactic on move 9 that causes you to lose the game? Calculation means nothing if you can't evaluate, but what is evaluation? You've already reached the end of your an…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/14 08:11 PM
1

I don't know, maybe four. It's just personal preference. I've never seen many of the short haired women I know in long hair.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/14 01:48 AM
1

You need the right build for it. If you're a larger woman you should be playing up your femininity, but I knew a few petite, pale, fairly flat chested women who looked absolutely adorable in short hair.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/03/14 07:26 PM
3

I know I'm in the minority here but I find short hair pretty attractive on the right woman. Then again, it could also kill attraction; it's really case by case.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/03/14 02:09 AM
1

This is a good account, I might want to add to it. Don't you think it could also encompass, say, purposefully misleading others for the benefit of an organization or even an idea or philosophy?
/r/PurplePillDebate12/03/14 03:26 PM
6

I don't know about the malicious intent part. Think of a deceitful army recruiter who tells recruits how incredible the service is and presents biased information - this is obviously manipulation, but would it likely be malicious? For it to be malicious, the recruiter would have to be directly trying to harm the recruit when much more likely intentions would be "meet your quotas" or "get a bonus" or "help the army" none of which are malicious. Malicious means you're directly trying to hurt someo…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/03/14 03:17 PM
1

Appealing to emotion over reason when trying to get someone to do something is part of it. I've always considered seduction a form of manipulation, but I don't see all manipulation as bad.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/03/14 03:04 PM
4

"Now, by self-awareness/agency what I mean is as follows: The ability to accurately observe your present/past/future decisions for what they are, stripped of ego. The ability to identify what inner and outer pressures affect your decision making, and having the willpower/presence of mind to either acknowledge those pressures or to defy them." The first idea is objectivity while the second is introspective self-knowledge/awareness and will power. I like how you talk about observation "stripped of…
/r/askTRP11/03/14 04:28 PM
2

This was a really good article, but does the author give definitions of gametalk, babytalk, and posturetalk? I was looking through the rest of his articles but I couldn't find anything.
/r/AlreadyRed05/03/14 07:59 PM
1

This is not true, TRP has a general consensus/acknowledgement on what alpha and beta are. I can guarantee you that if I made a post arguing that alpha-ness is just goodness I'd be down voted - many prisoners and violent dictators are alpha. Alpha makes you a better man, not a better person.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/03/14 09:55 PM
4

This is true, and I wish more BPers would understand this so they could provide better criticism. I was about to make a thread on this, but ended up deciding against it. Want to engage TRP? Don't ridicule PUAs or talk about "rape culture" (not saying it's necessarily wrong, but the men of TRP aren't going to be able to relate) instead try providing an interesting take on alpha-ness or ask whether, say, betas are needed in society for the greater good. These would be good talking points. What I h…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/14 08:20 PM
2

I don't really believe in gender that much. That's interesting, and in a similar fashion I don't believe in a "true self" so when I hear the advice "just be yourself" it comes across as meaningless. Most people act differently depending on who they interact with, and I'd venture to say that those who don't adapt their behavior to their surroundings are a little clueless. I do believe in the "self" - the self that changes from day to day as it gains new knowledge and experiences and that adapts t…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/14 05:37 PM
12

I do not see how people on the blue pill side can feel so confident that the redpill is wrong, bad, or objectionable, because they are debating from much easier ground, and their beliefs are not tested in the same way that redpill theories are. I completely agree that it's easier to tear something down than to put forth a viable alternative. I guess just looking at it argumentatively, an honest attempt at debate is even more convoluted because there's no such thing as TRP dogma. There's no defin…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/02/14 03:44 AM
1

to make red pill posters provide actual evidence for why they think their position is right <shrug> I'm instrumental in my approach to many things. If some strange cult used their gods to predict the weather, and they were right, I'd be more interested in their forecast than their methodology. I suspect I'm far from alone. In fact I'd go as far as saying that the sense I get from the "OMG terpers need to prove themselves" crowd is that they aren't looking for proof as much as they're looking to …
/r/PurplePillDebate23/02/14 07:23 PM
2

Certainly not a very low priority unless she just has a low sex drive. In my experience, it's pretty high up there. But we also have to take into account that it's not all or nothing kind of deal and I'd think a lot of guys can be mostly there...I don't feel comfortable commenting too much here because I'm not female. Can we leave it at that it's generally pretty important? You have identified a topic that we don't see very much of on TRP, so it's a decent point you're raising. I think there cou…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/14 09:45 PM
3

Ok, sexual pleasure tends to be important to people - women included - so yes, I'm sure her sexual satisfaction plays a role in her choice of partners.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/14 08:51 PM
2

By "woman's mating behavior" do you just how she fucks? So what does TRP say about the role of a woman's sexual pleasure while she fucks?...The two tend to go together? Or do you just want the male TRP approach to sex?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/14 08:31 PM
3

Sure. Also I don't see much difference between TRP advice to work out and be healthy, dress well, and pursue career success than the same kind of advice someone else might give. You can't impugn the value of advice just because of the source. Yeah, good advice is good advice. Rules of thumb might help some men be more successful at picking up some women. Once you get into a serious relationship though, individual differences and individual circumstances will trump sex based rules of thumb. My im…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/14 07:09 PM
2

I can agree on the universal truths, but how about rules of thumb? Do those have any value? TRP's not all about pick up though.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/14 04:39 PM
7

Well could you let us in on this ugly truth then?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/14 03:52 PM
2

The shift from a more manufacturing, industrial economy to one that's more customer service oriented generally favors women.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/02/14 05:14 AM
2

The TRP conception of man is really nothing new; the idea of a more or less fixed human nature shaped by evolutionary design is fairly mainstream. What isn't mainstream is TRP's embrace of the masculine. Over the last 50 years feminine virtues have became much more prominent to the point where they dominate in much of the western world: politeness, compromise, and good customer service are very highly valued traits in the job market. The most basic thing that follows from a fixed nature is that …
/r/PurplePillDebate20/02/14 01:15 AM
14

But we do associate it with man - language is fluid, it can change over time. Alpha and beta-ness can be applied to humans in a relatively straight forward way.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/14 05:26 PM
17

Alpha and beta are really just sets of traits that describe people, calling someone beta is no more dehumanizing than calling someone sensitive, passive, not a leader, and so forth.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/14 05:17 PM
1

I was asked how I transitioned from sociology to the red pill. Here cut and pasted is my reply Would you mind expanding a little bit more? Was there some study done or a collection of studies that you found were particularly pertinent to TRP? Or was it more the mindset you formed through sociology that made you partial to TRP? I just have to add that I loved reading Weber, anytime someone disses your field Weber's the first guy I'll bring up.
/r/askTRP17/02/14 11:49 PM
4

This is actually a criticism I made of TRP in a post on PPD a while back. I'd be much more comfortable with "don't moralize about sexual strategy." However, another TRP made the point that he never interpreted "sexual strategy is amoral" as a moral claim, but rather a descriptive claim. He interpreted it as something like "sexual selection doesn't favor the moral over the immoral" which I think is completely sensible.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/02/14 02:28 AM
14

I'm going to offer an alternative take: Generalizations are perfectly natural and they don't need to be backed up by some a "valid" scientific study for them to be credible. How many of our ancestors needed to be mauled by lions or bears before we started avoiding them? Where were the scientific studies to back up those conclusions? These kinds of generalizations - "street smarts" are absolutely worth something, and especially if there's no contradictory evidence I'll give them credibility in my…
/r/askTRP15/02/14 10:16 PM
4

There's a fundamental difference: Savage is saying that he should put his love life on hold. The advice seemed vaguely condescending to me. TRP would tell him to get his shit in order now. I don't really fault Savage - he takes a realist, practical approach but with TRP you'd really get that push to go out there. Maybe we're too optimistic at TRP? edit: On second thought Savage's take seems pretty cynical; he would have probably suggested upping his game if he thought it was feasible. Guess not.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/02/14 10:57 PM
1

Depression is such a game killer. I always want to know why people are depressed; if we can pin that down we can work to fix it. Beating his depression/low self esteem would be his first step, and that's probably the advice asktrp would give him. Only after that can he work on his game.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/02/14 10:33 PM
-1

I think anger/rage is in virtually everyone's nature. There's also the big issue about how people manage it and when it's appropriate. A clearer example would be like a girl getting angry at men for being attracted so much to physical beauty. It would just come off as absurd.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/14 04:14 AM
-1

If it was something like these women are this way here are some easy tricks to figure out if the girl you are seeing is like that and here are things to look for in woman who are not then I think it would make perfectly good sense. I don't really even view women who play games or have hypergamous tendencies as really even being "bad" anymore. Downvote me to hell, but why get mad at something that's in someone's nature? I don't really fault game playing on either side - women test men because the…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/14 03:50 AM
0

I think most normal advice would just claim to apply to men in general or in other words a healthy majority.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/14 03:07 AM
0

It depends on the generalization. Anytime advice is given on how to attract men, you're presupposing certain things about men in general. The advice rests on certain truths.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/14 03:00 AM
2

What makes two people really good for each other...? Tons of things. I'll give you a list of things that cut a potential partner for me off the list: conservatism, lack of intellectual curiosity, coldness, wants children, conflict-avoidant, traditionalism, doesn't read, intolerance of my disorganization, Social Justice Warrior, lawbreaking, status-consciousness (in certain areas), insistent on paying for dates, adherence to just world fallacy... I feel that people like to build up these images i…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/14 12:12 AM
0

Really? I find humans can represent alpha-ness much better than even the biggest, most dominating gorilla. The alpha gorilla's got nothing on Caesar or Tywin Lannister. With intelligence your possibilities are extended 1000x.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/14 06:04 PM
0

Why is it misleading? The general idea is you think "alpha male" and the idea is you try to emulate the qualities that the alpha male possesses. I'm not saying emulate the gorilla, but you try to bring it to a human scale and work with it a little.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/14 05:33 PM
0

I feel like you have a personal problem with the term. If you could explain then I could give you my take. "Alpha" is useful because it evokes a certain image or concept, I don't know if it's strictly necessary.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/14 04:34 PM
0

You could measure it a number of ways. Generally it's based on self reports and averages. Ok, well surely you could do the same thing about whether someone's a "good man" or a "bad man" or how well he represents the society-wide conception of masculinity. "Of course, but I'm also honest with myself when I'm making an attempt to appear more attractive. I don't know why that's such a faux pas for men in our society. You're supposed to be attractive, but also aloof about it like you don't really ca…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/02/14 09:53 PM
0

That's interesting, and I'm not a sociologist, but would those studies perhaps be more general, society-wide impressions of attraction? Would I be wrong if I thought a woman was a 6 instead what a sociological study labeled, say, a 7? All right, "better man" is a little vague but when you're dealing with non-quantifiable measures you need to allow a little slack. You're right to press this point, but just understand once you start pressing the matter of what "better" amounts to you're in philoso…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/02/14 09:36 PM
2

Attractiveness also means different things to different people and isn't quantifiable on an objective level. You bring up an interesting point comparing "better man" to the TRP emphasis on alpha. It's complicated because TRP doesn't deal in moral perfection, it really just deals in developing masculinity, so I'd distinguish "better man" from "better human." I don't expect this to be fully satisfactory, it's a good point you're making and we could spend much more time discussing it.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/02/14 09:06 PM
1

I would say essentially what you're doing is making yourself a better man, becoming more attractive is a secondary effect. It's not what you're directly aiming at in pursuing self development. You could say boosting attraction through self development is foreseen but not intended. With PUA it's entirely different because PUA is just concerned with raw success numbers.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/02/14 08:16 PM
1

No, I use "alpha" as opposed to "attractive" because it's a better outlook.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/02/14 08:00 PM
1

This is a good question, and I think it gets to the heart of TRP. TRP is really about masculine self-improvement, and by viewing that through the lense of whether a behavior is attractive or unattractive ultimately puts our conception of ourselves as men entirely into the hands of women and their desires. To put it another way, we act to bring out the best of masculinity and women like that; we don't act to explicitly fit the standards of feminine desire. I hope that was clear.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/02/14 07:46 PM
0

If no one approves a compromise then how do compromises work? My understanding is that a compromise is a trade off: "I do X, and in exchange Y, ok?"
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/14 02:29 AM
1

Okay, but who approves the compromise? "All right, Mary, I'll do the dishes if I can take my phone to the table, how does that sound?" Totally equal relationship, clearly no power dynamics involved because they're just compromising. I guess I'll have to get used to being unhealthy then.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/14 02:05 AM
-2

You say "make compromises" but I just can't help but drift to the conclusion that someone's usually giving in. Table manners are a perfect example of this: "put your napkin on your lap," "no phones at the table;" you can't appeal to any objective criteria over whether these orders are justified - it's often a power play. "I don't feel comfortable with my daughter doing that" versus "I'm fine with it" - it's a matter of gut feeling, instinct - someone gives in. There are times when you genuinely …
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/14 01:55 AM
-1

Sometimes decisions can be "made together" but what's really happening even in this ideal case is someone proposing the suggestion and the other person agreeing. The power dynamic really comes into play when there's disagreement and especially when there's only two answers: "Daddy, can I go to the dance? Mommy said yes." There's a lot cases like this: table manners, family traditions, and many others. In this case, we "made the decision together" meant someone gave in. While the honest RPer is p…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/14 01:39 AM
4

I don't want anybody to be broken. I've been around domineering, awful men - it's brutal. All I'm saying is that if someone's going to lead in the relationship that role should generally fall to the father. That's not to say that the father can or should control everything, but we can't ignore the reality that someone has to make decisions.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/14 01:19 AM
3

Absolutely.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/14 12:45 AM
5

My friends span the spectrum - alpha to omega. It's my family that's mostly demonstrated TRP to me. My mom recently cheated on my successful beta dad after 20+ years of marriage; it was a textbook case of alpha fucks, beta bucks. A part of me doesn't even entirely blame her, I sometimes feel like my dad is broken. He's never been mean to her, the relationship just broke down as he kept trying to appease her. Now she just dominates him.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/14 10:35 PM
2

I think we're talking past each other because we have different understandings of empathy. My understanding of empathy is that it's bond based on some kind of shared experience or feeling. I could sympathize but not empathize with a starving African child because I've never been there; the most I can do is maybe feel bad for him or her. Empathy rests on identification; say my SO cheated on me and I remembered the feeling, and then a little while later a friend's SO cheated on them and we met aft…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/14 11:45 PM
2

I understand why men could have a different position, but that's not the same as empathizing.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/14 10:25 PM
4

I wouldn't separate my dick from me, they're not two different entities. Part of the TRP perspective would be acknowledging this i.e. owning yourself, your full self. That said, I do admire the emphasis on autonomy; I'd say the major roadblock here would be you denying a very important biological aspect of yourself.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/14 10:10 PM
0

If a tornado destroys a flower bed is the tornado wrong? It doesn't make sense to have a genuine, moral gripe with RP specs because RP specs isn't a moral agent. I guess you could have an issue with God but that's a different issue - it doesn't make sense to me otherwise.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/14 09:57 PM
5

I take TRP to be above all else a perspective on masculinity. A lot of the mods agree with me on that one, and it's natural that there's going to be a lot of conversation on women but that's certainly not all of it.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/14 09:26 PM
3

"The vast majority of women and the vast majority of men are not good for one another." How do you know that? How many men do really, really know? What really makes two people good each other apart from a mystical clicking together of souls? "How so?" Because it would be a world where masculine power, ambition, and drive would be sublimated into politeness, social convention, and all the deceit and under-handedness that comes with it.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/14 09:18 PM
6

It's not a reaction to losing out on the dating world. You know nothing about my dating life, but there's no bitterness that accompanies it. You're using an argumentative technique where you're trying to pin my position on emotional considerations. I really don't think it does suck that women have expectations about men approaching them. If anything, you're the bitter one. I actually want the best for women; I don't think it "sucks" that they have standards. I agree with a decent amount of what …
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/14 09:05 PM
4

It would fundamentally be about how they viewed masculinity, in probably a way similar to how you and an anti-feminist, pro-life woman would differ in regard to femininity. There would just be a world of difference.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/14 08:57 PM
3

In the general way that people with conflicting world views have with each other. I'm sure you know the feeling.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/14 08:24 PM
4

This is actually a common attitude on TRP; I never really understood it. What would a world according to TBP specs look like? Men would just be in this weird passive-aggressive state where they'd be trying to out-nice other men. There's going to be competition over mates anyway you slice it, and under a TBP world masculinity as we know it would be obliterated (how much politeness and gift giving can someone handle?). It just strikes me as so cringeworthy, and don't get me started on the women.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/14 08:23 PM
3

I can atleast understand where blue pill women are coming from. I have difficulty dealing with blue pill men.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/14 07:43 PM
0

In my experience, and the experience of many I know, the unemployed husband who stays at home with the kids is asking for marriage problems. I have no problem with women pursuing careers, but we need to keep in mind the responsibility that motherhood entails.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/02/14 05:28 PM
1

That class of men is estimated to be around half of men 18-34 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sean-mcmanus/is-it-time-to-invent-a-ne_b_257591.html). It's a major issue in the country. As debilitating as Japanese work culture might be (and I don't disagree here, the country could probably use some reforms) you can't avoid the issue that these men lack the basic ingredients needed for a society to succeed. They are unambitious, unattractive, and have no pride in their country - say what you want ab…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/02/14 05:22 PM
0

There are different ways to show strength; someone can be strong in feminine and masculine ways. You shouldn't take the ways that TRP advocates for men and say "this is the only way to be strong." The guys aren't going to like her if she's trying to out-man them. It's just a lose-lose.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/02/14 05:04 PM
5

Because it matters for women if, say, their boyfriend or husband lives in their parents basement and has no dreams. A lot of men couldn't care less if their SO didn't have a killer resume. It's really just selection.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/02/14 10:41 PM
3

I'm not saying women can't be ambitious, but traditionally a lot crazy entrepeneurial risk has come from men. To get the best mate men have often had to step to the plate. Near suicidal risk and masculinity go hand in hand. A lot of women are very ambitious, but for men it's practically an imperative.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/02/14 10:35 PM
2

Alright, I didn't mean to come off as overly critical ;) Nah, the omega/mgtow has basically stepped out of the game. Omegas can certainly have skills - and plenty of them - they just sort of don't do the hierarchy thing. An omega could be a genius who just doesn't concern himself with social hierarchy.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/02/14 10:31 PM
4

You already have something like this in Japan - an entire class of men who've shunned traditional masculinity: http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/06/05/japan.herbivore.men/index.html?iref=topnews They lack ambition, women don't like them, and if these attitudes were adopted by every Japanese male society would collapse.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/02/14 10:25 PM
1

Someone can't be "internally identical" to an alpha if they don't desire to lead. That's asking what if someone were internally identical to an evangalical Christian but didn't believe in God. If they didn't desire to lead they might be internally similar to an alpha in that they might share other qualities, but I'd say the closest you could come there is some kind of mgtow/prideful omega.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/02/14 10:15 PM
-1

If someone intimidates someone else it isn't always out in the open. If you're a woman trying to attract a partner it just doesn't make sense to adopt the behaviors TRP advocates for men; I'd imagine you if you took that advice to heart as a woman you'd be like Lady MacBeth.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/02/14 08:52 PM
3

TRP is designed for men, but TRP wouldn't say the traits they advocate for men are universal (i.e. hold for both men and women everywhere.) If you took the traits TRP advocates for men and embodied them in a woman that woman could very well intimidate the average man. What works for men doesn't necessarily work for women, and vice versa.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/02/14 07:40 PM
4

Some good insight here. He also doesn't fit because he was influenced by eastern mysticism (taoism if I can remember correctly) making him more like a borderline mystic-philosopher. Philosophy grad here, and a lot of academic philosophers are able to overlook someone's racism, misogyny, etc. if the content is considered solid (Kant for instance said some terrible things about black people.) A lot of philosophers hold views that would be considered misogynistic by today's standards but I remember…
/r/TheRedPill31/01/14 05:59 PM
2

Strategy and morality are two separate issues, but morality frequently serves to limit strategy. It can serve as a boundary, like say we wanted to find a strategy to travel to New York - morality would limit, say, a car jacking. If we were to say that travel strategy was amoral it would imply that there's nothing wrong with car jackings. When we talk about strategy we're frequently talking about something more than analysis; namely, the intention to follow through with our strategy. That's where…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/14 04:07 AM
2

That's interesting, but if so they should have just said "the people who engage in sexual strategy are largely amoral" or something like that rather than imply that sexual strategy itself is amoral (i.e. the means to which one gets sexual partners is amoral.)
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/14 03:04 AM
1

I would tend to disagree, in my experience most of them are operating out of either a misplaced sense of chivalry or liberal guilt.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/14 02:57 AM
2

Who do you mean by "they?"
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/14 02:50 AM
1

Really nothing too restrictive: no roofies, no dragging her by the hair kicking and screaming to the back of the club...What's more important here most of the time is social etiquette - for example when it's counts as "stealing" a girl from a guy and when it doesn't...things like that.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/14 01:10 AM
1

I was just saying it evolved amorally. Men with those strategies were simply selected for in evolution. Ok, if "it evolved amorally" is the same as "moral men aren't selected over non-moral men in the evolutionary process." I wouldn't say something like "because evolution doesn't care about morality I can do whatever I want/there is no morality." :A quick personal question: How do you define "moral"? Generally moral statements make reference to rules. So a lot of moral theory is trying to make s…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/14 12:51 AM
2

I'm a little confused by the first part, but I think we could just leave it at "don't moralize about sexual strategy." A quick personal note - I have a philosophy degree with a concentration in moral philosophy and it never fails to amaze me how offended BPers or white knights get about something like negging.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/14 12:13 AM
1

...which is bad. They're hurting their community.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/14 11:19 PM
3

In Japan, you have very traditional gender roles. Maybe with the older generation, but with the younger generation you have an entire class of men who basically seem to reject pursuing women and adopting traditional masculine habits - Japan's "herbivore men."
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/14 11:03 PM
1

No, I wouldn't say he's going against nature. It's really as simple as to whether he accepts his gender identity as male. It's not a matter of whether he takes an enormous amount of pride in being male or is this brooding alpha male himself. It's just that we believe we can gain some idea of the good for this person on the basis of gender identity. One's gender gives us a general guideline for how to bring out the best in that person.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/14 09:19 PM
6

"Sexual strategy is amoral." If we go with this, then you can do anything to get laid: Lie, cheat, drug... It's one of those often repeated phrases on TRP but most of the users probably would backstep if the point was pressed.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/14 09:04 PM
1

Whether it applies to transmen would be very divisive, but generally speaking it applies to biological males who identify as "really" male, so it wouldn't include men who want sex changes or men who see themselves as "really" women.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/14 08:16 PM
1

It can definitely fit within the TRP narrative. My posts along these lines are well-received, though it's certainly not the only line of thought. TRP's more prescriptive elements would apply to all men who identify as men, so being a sub wouldn't excuse one.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/14 04:49 PM
2

I sort of agree. I think a lot of people take some basic part of their sexuality (like being straight or gay) as a matter of identity while fetishes can come and go. So I could see someone being dominant or submissive as a matter of identity - like if someone were to wake up the next morning and lose that part of them I could a lot of people being pretty alarmed and having some kind of identity crisis. I certainly would, but I can't speak for you. I wouldn't say one's sexuality constitutes an en…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/14 03:14 AM
4

I'll give it a shot. We need to draw a distinction between men who have some sexually submissive fantasies and those who take being sexually submissive as a matter of identity. If you just want to spice up your sex life a little, I think most of TRP could tolerate that but the community would naturally be a little on edge about encouraging men to display a behavior that could end up jeopardizing the relationship. I would guess if the relationship is with an actual dominant women then there might…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/14 05:30 PM
3

The terms can be applied to men as well as women. Men can be hypergamous, the term is just generally used to describe women. Yes, there are alpha women. RP actually does discuss men and getting a clear and accurate conception of masculinity is central to TRP.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/14 02:53 AM
8

You can't be your best self if you hold this gut-level disgust or anger towards women. People need to learn to let go of this victimized beta mentality and adopt a more mature, realistic attitude. Attitudes shape interactions, so you're not doing yourself any favors.
/r/TheRedPill27/01/14 02:35 AM
1

All I said in the above post was that masculine men tend to attract straight women over feminine men. I made no mention of whether the suitor was dominant or submissive in the bedroom or elsewhere. So, yeah, I'd agree. If a man is truly and exclusively submissive there's not much of a point of hiding it outside of social pressures. I don't think many men are exclusively submissive though.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/01/14 12:30 AM
1

So would your ideal man be a woman in a man's body? I don't mind, I'd just say from observation that you're outside the norm in that regard.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/14 11:05 PM
4

I never said no women are attracted to feminine or submissive men. Women can be attracted to all kinds of things, but on balance I'd put my money on the masculine suitor over the feminine and submissive one.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/14 11:02 PM
4

Who is this man trying to attract: men or women? If he's trying to attract women by being submissive and feminine then he's just doing it wrong. I'm talking about being outwardly feminine and submissive. If it's something more internal and private then he needs to tread carefully. I'm not opposed to a little role play, but it's not really fair if his SO isn't into it. Something like that can be a really big turn off. If he's trying to attract men it's just a different discussion. TRP doesn't hav…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/14 10:51 PM
11

-It affirms masculinity. This is much rarer than it sounds. -It believes in the idea that the sexes are complementary - not that one is better than the other, but that there are inherent differences between the two genders and these qualities - being truly a part of their respective genders - should be affirmed. -The forum will generally give you honest advice on an issue without concern for your feelings. Most of the user base values knowledge over "feel good" answers. -There's undoubtedly a lo…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/14 03:00 PM
7

Does anyone else find it interesting that he neglects thought? He mentions feeling, action, and expression. No mention of introspection. If anything, introspection tends to hinder these attributes (i.e. thought tends to restrict action, expression and tempers emotion.) It would seem that Disraeli's manly man would basically be a brute.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/14 09:28 PM
9

"Without the ability to make a boner, I am weak, impotent, and harmless." I love it when extremes meet. Radical feminists will sometimes describe male sexuality as inherently aggressive or violent. In my experience most people seem to disagree with this, but Roosh seems not only to agree but to actively affirm.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/14 08:55 PM
-1

"It implies that the assumptions being made are based on accepted facts." Your point hinges on a distinction between accepted fact and what is merely anecdotal evidence. I think sometimes the issue falls somewhere in the middle. Take the fairly widespread TRP belief that women are more emotional than men. How do they come to believe or know this? Probably through anecdotes, but also some might come to believe it through, say, historical or philosophical writings on women from famous thinkers or …
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/14 06:43 PM
6

I'll go point by point: "You seem to believe that stoicism is best and emotional attachment should be avoided" We believe that in sexual strategy emotions need to be managed, not wiped out. Stoicism is basically the idea that detachment from emotion is desirable, but there's no shortage of RPers expressing their disdain for feminism and the current state of manhood. Emotion is fine if it's channeled properly, so maybe in some minor sense TRP might be partial to stoicism but definitely not comple…
/r/askTRP06/01/14 07:15 PM
27

Here's part of the reply from the highest rated response: "-I am, however, a 23-year-old virgin This is a key point. It's okay to be a virgin. You are probably feeling intense pressure on this point though; many people do. That's okay. However, realize that this fact has skewed your view. You are vulnerable because of it, so subs like theredpill are trying to sell you a attractive/easy-sounding solution to your vulnerability. Just like weight loss scams and Scientology and other extreme religion…
/r/TheRedPill03/01/14 11:14 PM
10

"Lack of Empathy means the exchange is similar to 2 aspergers kids playing chess. There is no feeling. This is why it's so easy to pump and dump." As a chess player, I just want to say that I love this analogy. I'd say empathy in a woman is clearly a positive trait, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that it's ultimately what makes her attractive.
/r/TheRedPill31/12/13 12:01 AM
23

Just keep your mouth shut. It's not worth jeopardizing your grade and making your professor hate you. Maybe not all women's studies professors are like this, but from my experience (college grad, philosophy major) many of them are. Pick your battles wisely.
/r/askTRP30/12/13 11:28 PM
3

In regard to the quote, this attitude completely bewilders me. Lets just take a quick look at the 16 commandments, we get things like: Engage her emotionally, err on the side of boldness, keep her guessing, only say your sorry when absolutely necessary, etc. What does the writer of that quote have in mind? Does he just want to engage women intellectually? Does his idea of a date involve drifting from quantum theory to metaphysics to calculus? If he doesn't want to engage her emotions then it sho…
/r/askTRP26/12/13 07:12 PM
7

You can still make generalities even on case-by-case/gradient thinking. TRP never says that all women are attracted to alpha behavior or that all beta behavior is universally bad. We do think that alpha behavior is more conducive towards attracting women than beta behavior, but this can't be regarded as absolute.
/r/askTRP26/12/13 07:01 PM
1

I agree with the gist of this, although there was an insightful thread maybe a week ago that pointed out that jails are packed full of alphas. The idea that self improvement is simply being alpha more often is pretty dubious; when it comes to sexual strategy I see the sense in being alpha, but outside of that it's a whole different issue. I think the TRP community would benefit from more exploration of this topic.
/r/TheRedPill19/12/13 12:51 AM
1

Ok, this sounds sensible, but if you're right then TRP is much more about gender theory and sexual strategy than it is about self improvement like this thread suggests.
/r/TheRedPill17/12/13 04:33 PM
3

I've read most of the links in the sidebar, but it would seem that the red pill itself is something we take away from those articles rather than the actual articles themselves. There are better and worse things to take away from these articles; that's what the red pill is. That's where the work comes in. We have plenty of content, but we need to centralize and clarify.
/r/TheRedPill17/12/13 05:00 AM
3

In all fairness, it's not entirely clear what the nature of redpill is. I hear new users say "I just swallowed the red pill" and I never really know what they mean. There's actually some real philosophical work that needs to be done on TRP, and that starts with coming to a clear understanding of what it means to swallow the red pill.
/r/TheRedPill17/12/13 04:21 AM
6

TRP doesn't seek to control every aspect of your long term relationships. It couldn't. You're a unique individual and eventually the real you is going to come out and it's not reasonable to take TRP as demanding you be some alpha combination of Clint Eastwood, Tywin Lannister and James Bond 24/7. What you should take away from TRP is to just keep in the back of your mind that there's generally a "game" or evolutionary aspect to relationships and mate finding i.e. you should be maintaining or imp…
/r/askTRP08/12/13 02:48 AM
2

It would get a chuckle out of me. We're not the masculinity police here at TRP; if being submissive gets you off then great, I'm not going to start preaching to you about what should go on in your bedroom. If you were a buddy I might be a little concerned just because
/r/askTRP14/11/13 12:18 AM
4

To your second question, the answer is a resounding "no." If I could recall, Caesar and Christopher Hitchens were bisexual and neither were remotely beta; beta-ness is more about actions and beliefs rather than what exactly you do in the bedroom.
/r/askTRP10/11/13 03:55 PM
1

Doing what wrong? You never specified what "it" was. Being a sex positive feminist? I'd say yes, because I consider the position to be socially irresponsible but that's apart from TRP. TRP doesn't say that PUA is the only way to get women, but I think PUA can certainly help. If you're doing fine without PUA tactics, by all means - it's not part of red pill. TRP doesn't moralize. I could answer this but I'd be departing from TRP. No one's really going to condemn you for sleeping with a lot of wom…
/r/askTRP02/11/13 11:29 PM
31

I hate to say it, but just go with the flow. It just makes more sense in the long run to participate with supportive comments every now and then and write your essay in line with class views then to risk ostracizing yourself and being labeled a chauvinist. EDIT: For the record, I would trust "normal" philosophy professors with this (e.g. the ones who specialize in ancients, or the "modern" period from Descartes to Hume, or some other serious academic area) but critical theory is it's own beast a…
/r/TheRedPill20/10/13 11:55 PM
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