onyonn Archive

Upvotes	Title	Category	Author	Subreddit	Date (UTC)
34	Civil discussion in the gender wars	Social Issues	onyonn	/r/MensRights	03/08/15 06:44 AM

Upvotes	Comment on	Subreddit	Date (UTC)
3	Pretty underwhelmed by The Red Pill. I think there's probably a very good reason for the approach. A detailed statistical breakdown of a bunch of material will bore most people who aren't already highly motivated to learn about the issues. By personalizing everything, the issues are made more human and relatable. The empathy gap is something that any documentary on these topics needs to overcome. A bunch of statistics? Most people are going to be less interested. A man on-screen talking about he was abused by his wife for years whi…	/r/MensRights	12/03/17 06:28 PM
1	John Wayne Takes Apart Liberals, Feminists, White Guilt, And Black Lives Matter He's basically saying 'Blacks here have been better-off than they would have been in Africa.' That's ridiculous. But all other considerations aside, if you think the House Unamerican Activities Comittee, blacklisting, and McCarthyism were bad, then I might skip listening to John Wayne's political and social views. Trumbo is a good movie in general, but this clip is pretty relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXSNWvdkkic&feature=youtu.be&t=79 Edit: formatting	/r/MensRights	12/03/17 06:21 PM
9	Saw this in the comments on another case post...deserves way more attention I think these sorts of posts can serve a function in this sub. Articles about female perps helps establish that women can be just as violent and antisocial as men. Articles about female perps being given light sentences, especially for serious crimes helps to establish that women are not held to the same level of accountability of men -- the sentencing gap, etc. I think few people in this sub would disagree with these two statements. And some people here, especially new people, may be new to all…	/r/MensRights	19/02/17 05:32 AM
19	What the fuck is she talking about? If you're talking about the original poster, the real answer is: without them giving examples, who knows? Misogyny? There are obviously examples on reddit with actual misogyny. The problem is that misogyny is a term that is used to smear anyone that doesn't agree with the feminist narrative. "All women are cheaters who will screw you over the first chance they get." This is actual misogyny. You can find comments along these lines over at the MGTOW sub if you want an example. Note: Abandoning rel…	/r/MensRights	19/02/17 05:16 AM
1	"Don’t trust everything you read in the psychology literature. In fact, two thirds of it should probably be distrusted." Women vastly outnumber men in psychology. Men have complained about discrimination. More diversity would improve the quality of the science. The evidence you've offered us is 'trust me, I used to work in the field'. No I have not - but keep up the projection! Projection? You haven't offered anything else other than your own testimony. That's my point. If you have evidence, present it. Yup - I could If I presently had time. Unfortunately presently my focus is on other areas concerning Suicide prevention for Disabled people in the UK re Benefit changes and loss of care. Thank you for your work helping those in need. But between having …	/r/MensRights	17/02/17 08:43 PM
3	PBS Newshour go off the feminist media reservation, discussing male mortality and suicide rates in the USA? I'm not sure how much they've been 'on the reservation' in the first place. They're a news-driven, not a culture-war-driven organization, which is very apparent when you watch it. Lehrer's rules of journalism: Do nothing I cannot defend. Cover, write and present every story with the care I would want if the story were about me. Assume there is at least one other side or version to every story. Assume the viewer is as smart and as caring and as good a person as I am. Assume the same about all peo…	/r/MensRights	17/02/17 07:08 PM
1	"Don’t trust everything you read in the psychology literature. In fact, two thirds of it should probably be distrusted." Women vastly outnumber men in psychology. Men have complained about discrimination. More diversity would improve the quality of the science. There have been a significant group of articles (one could apply the term brave) from the field of Psychology highlighting how the gender bias in favour of females ... OK, do you have any references to those? I'd be happy to read even one. I used to be in the field and was amazed as far back as the 1980's how academic psychology and research was riddles with gender bias in favour of the female and other prioritised groups. How so, specifically? Can you even provide an example of a conclusion res…	/r/MensRights	17/02/17 06:53 PM
3	Gender Wars: is masculinity toxic for boys? John Waters, Camille Paglia, Martin Daubney, Christopher Beckett panel discussion Forgive the title it's an excellent talk and quite heated in places. She wrote about this in her book "Daring Greatly". It's on vulnerability in general, but she talks about this realization in it. Edit: Oh, the book is called out in the article; nice.	/r/MensRights	17/02/17 07:28 AM
7	"Don’t trust everything you read in the psychology literature. In fact, two thirds of it should probably be distrusted." Women vastly outnumber men in psychology. Men have complained about discrimination. More diversity would improve the quality of the science. Come on, let's try to be a little more honest with ourselves. Things are bad enough that we don't need to come up with total non-sequiturs. Your comments after the quote have nothing to do with what the article is discussing. First, the article doesn't address gender balance or discrimination in the field of psychology -- not that it doesn't exist. It certainly doesn't indicate that diversity is the source of the problem. From the article: The point, says Nosek, is not to critique individual pap…	/r/MensRights	17/02/17 05:46 AM
6	This was shown on tonight's PBS Newshour. There sure is! https://www.youtube.com/user/PBSNewsHour/videos http://www.pbs.org/newshour/videos/	/r/MensRights	17/02/17 04:46 AM
24	This was shown on tonight's PBS Newshour. I find that in general people don't seem to know much about PBS Newshour. For those unfamiliar, this is easily the highest quality news program on American television, but no one seems to watch it because it's "boring". Of course they say that because it's actually educational. For example, when the supreme court has a new ruling, they bring on a law professor to discuss it at length. It's news that focuses on what happened, the implications, the context, and the history around it. In an increas…	/r/MensRights	17/02/17 04:06 AM
5	VIDEO: Liberal ARRESTED After Shoving Her ‘BLOODY MAXI-PAD’ Into Pro-Lifer’s Mouth Last I checked, I thought this was supposed to be a sub revolving around men's issues. Sure, a lot of times portions of the left seem to be more opposed to our concerns than the right, at least very recently. Someone at a protest did something nasty and illegal to someone else at a protest? At a protest that AFAIK has nothing to do with men's rights? Who cares? This is just the broader culture war identity-politics baiting bullshit. It's just a distraction.	/r/MensRights	06/02/17 09:09 AM
2	So despite everything, is someone here still leftist? Like a lot of people here, I'm on the libertarian left on the political compass. Recently I've been thinking about the strain of utopianism on the left. The idea that if we can just create or enforce the right culture or environment we can leave all of our problems behind, I think, is the root of authoritarianism on the left. This even goes back to the puritans and quakers. The problem is, the ideas underlying projects for social engineering are always deeply flawed and end in disaster. Probably…	/r/MensRights	31/01/17 07:27 PM
1	Feminist scholar does Philosophy AMA, proves point of question about Feminist echo chambers More than this snippet, the top response from the scholar is interesting (in response to what current controversial topics are): There's controversial and then there's challenging. Let me say a bit about the latter. How to do intersectional feminist analysis well? How should we think about the category "woman" if we aren't going to be essentialists about sex and gender? How useful is the category "woman" given all the variability in women's lives and experiences? How to think about a complex cat…	/r/MensRights	26/01/17 09:27 PM
15	NYMag: "Future of the Left is Female" I'm an old-school liberal, and the seething identity politics garbage in that makes me ill. Politics is now almost entirely about what side of the cultural divide that you're on -- it has nothing to do with governing, economics, or legal principle anymore, except tangentially and in broad strokes. My fears: The future on the left. A social authoritarianism where those with the right personal identity have informal social power against those who don't. Wrongthink can wreck your career. There is e…	/r/MensRights	25/01/17 09:24 AM
26	What's everyone's thoughts on the Women's March? The protests aren't really about making real change, they're about virtue signaling and narcissism The right went off the deep end a long time ago. The left is in the process of going the same way. In the past I would have said that protests like this have a selection bias for people farther out on the spectrum -- people who don't have their whole identity wrapped up in the political and cultural wars won't take the time and money travel just to protest. I think the same could have been said abo…	/r/MensRights	21/01/17 07:17 PM
9	Make College Great Again: President Trump's new Education Secretary to Fight False Rape Culture on Campus You need to think like a crazy person to get it. You need to keep in mind that feminists tend to have the following ideas. A. Women engaging in promiscuity and drinking is part of their 'liberation' from traditional courtship, marriage, and bored housewife existence. B. If a woman wants to stop during sex but doesn't say anything, then the man is guilty of sexual assault. This is a specific example, but of course the attitude is more general. So to the author, FIRE is implying that liberation(A)…	/r/MensRights	18/01/17 09:04 AM
26	SRSer flips from discussing the lack of men's DV shelters in Canada to 'problems with masculinity' The last comment embodies an attitude that really bothers me. If there's a problem with masculinity, women (at large) have a huge part to play in it. Men may punish men somewhat for not conforming to gender roles, but women do as well -- and in my opinion, even more so. Case in point -- find a shy, skinny, weak-looking man, and ask how their dating experiences have been. Then do the same with someone from the opposite end of the spectrum. Ultimately, women reward traditional gender role conformi…	/r/MensRights	10/01/17 08:17 PM
2	Question for r/mensrights Men and women are certainly both equally capable of violence, but just as they have different occupational preferences, the ways that they carry out that violence are different. When it comes to mass violence and violence towards strangers, men certainly seem to predominate. However, for violence towards dependents (not just children, but nurses caring for the elderly, etc), women seem to predominate. Female mass murderers and serial killers do exist, and are not that uncommon, but tend to disap…	/r/MensRights	07/01/17 08:20 AM
3	Feminism's benefits for men It will 100% not work if you get banned from the group. Which will happen if you join a feminist group and try to 'derail' the conversation (read: bring up anything against the narrative). I suggest reading 'The Myth of Male Power', by Warren Farrell. Warren Farrell was a prominent feminist who found himself out in the cold as soon as he started talking about men's issues. None of us are prominent feminists, so how are we supposed to change what he couldn't? Even if we accept what you say to be …	/r/MensRights	23/11/16 04:12 AM
2	Feminism's benefits for men You obviously have some kind of ideal (to you) feminism in your mind. But that's the problem, it's in your mind. The problems with feminism are in no way limited to 'internet feminism'. You seem to acknowledge some of the problems within feminism, but then want us to ignore them in an entirely unrealistic way. You're asking people, concerned about men's issues, to try to participate in a movement that absolutely refuses to address those issues in any meaningful way, considers them illegitimate, …	/r/MensRights	21/11/16 07:54 AM
4	User at r/femradebates created FAQ on reasons why people for equality don't call themselves feminists. Check it out (Work In Progress, though. Be warned) This is fantastic. Having a single place for core arguments, perspectives, and data is fantastic. There's been talk of having a 'platform' before. While not really a platform per se, this could serve a similar role.	/r/MensRights	07/08/16 10:52 PM
6	legal bills have exceeded $200,000 Completely aside from the FC bullshit: “I cautioned them about facilitation,” the mother said. “I said, ’Is there a problem? Could there be something going on?”’ "They were told not to worry because the male staff member was married, she says." I'm not sure what's worse; the idea that married men are automatically 'safe', or unmarried men are automatically 'unsafe'.	/r/MensRights	03/07/16 04:17 AM
5	Is /r/Menslib a SJW, radical feminist operation? I posted there for a while because I think it's good to engage with people you disagree with, outside of formalized debates. It helped me clarify my own thinking on a couple of topics. While the sub is explicitly pro-feminist, I didn't seem to run into many problems when making various comments/arguments there. I bent over backwards to be civil (which is important to me anyway). And I found I was generally upvoted by the community. Which may have been part of the problem. I got banned outright f…	/r/MensRights	25/12/15 07:22 AM
3	Why you should always buy the men’s version of almost anything - The Washington Post This is such a textbook example of missing the business and manufacturing context of all of this, which isn't based in gender, but in profit motive. I think my favorite is this: “Those prices aren’t being driven by costs,” Ayres said, “but just because you take advantage of certain groups but not others.” Prices aren't driven by costs. The price of something is driven by what people are willing to pay for it. Women are willing to pay more for personal hygiene products (and especially when market…	/r/MensRights	23/12/15 06:53 AM
8	Sequoia capital: "We can't find women who meet our standards." Cue the outrage mob. "I think the issue begins in the high schools. Women tend to elect not to study the sciences when they're 11 and 12," he said. "Suddenly, the hiring pool is much smaller." Diversity consultant Joelle Emerson says the belief that companies must lower standards in order to hire women is misguided. Such doublethink going on here. It's a broader trend that's causing a lack of qualified women in the field in the first place. But the idea that to hire more women, that standards must be lowered is some…	/r/MensRights	04/12/15 07:33 PM
1	Men's Human Rights Ideology - Fundimentals The MRM shouldn't have an ideology -- an ideology is rigid. And ideologies tend to cause infighting, which can cause them to get more rigid. We want to build a broad base of support, not exclude people from the because they don't share a specific view. For example, is there some room in the movement for both those who lean towards (some parts) of traditional gender roles being natural and good, and those who think traditional gender roles are artificial and destructive? There should be. The answ…	/r/MensRights	02/12/15 06:23 AM
2	Rape culture: Menace or Myth? (Christina Hoff Sommers in Debate.) I'm pleasantly surprised by the number of thoughtful questions and comments from the audience, despite the more misguided ones. Could things be changing a little? Or is this audience just drawn from an atypical pool for some reason?	/r/MensRights	01/12/15 03:44 AM
3	Is there an "It Gets Better" for us? Looking for hope. All of these issues are real, and there is reason to be concerned about society. And in particular, if you're living in Seattle, I get the fear of social ostracism for speaking against the narrative. But this also sounds like 'negative self-talk', and I think it is one of the things that drives some people in this community to become not upset, but outright distraught. All subreddits are echo chambers and we're no exception. This isn't all of reality. Try to take a break from all of this if you …	/r/MensRights	20/11/15 09:10 AM
9	Why Is There No "Google Doodle" For International Men's Day? Companies, especially large companies, want to have a good public image, and avoid controversy. It's not altruistic. The reason there's no doodle for International Men's Day is quite simple. It's more trouble than it's worth. Can you imagine the amount of bad press that they'd get if they actually did a doodle for today? There would be a torrent of articles about how sexist Google is "taking sides" in the gender wars -- and with the "wrong" side. If you were a PR person, would you recommend it?	/r/MensRights	20/11/15 08:38 AM
152	South Park Season 19 Episode 8 - Sponsored Content Making fun of micro-aggressions, sex consent forms and safe spaces...South Park is really getting it right. Nice to see someone with a large audience satirizing the tactics of those who would silence us. It's just a matter of time until they take on MRAs and/or redpillers and/or MGTOW etc. They did it with atheism and they'll do it with us (or one of our distant or not-so-distant cousins). Which is as it should be. No group is beyond being made fun of.	/r/MensRights	20/11/15 08:32 AM
3	Can we talk about r/MensLib? I was over there for a while. The reason: I wanted to talk with people with a different perspective than me. Not necessarily debate, but just discuss. I mean, let's face it, all subreddits tend to become echo chambers. I commented there a fair bit, mostly trying to bring up counterpoints to some very skewed ways that many of them view things, occasionally a drawn out debate/discussion with an individual. I found I was mostly upvoted by the community. I just made sure that even if I was trying to…	/r/MensRights	18/11/15 07:23 AM
1	Trying to get rid of sexist/racist thought process Glad I could help in what little way I could. On some level it's part of human nature, and I doubt we can rid ourselves of it completely. As for advice, while it's hard to detach yourself from things you love, I think it helps to avoid labeling yourself. I love certain things, but with few exceptions I avoid making it part of my identity. And the more things you love and are interested in, the more 'spread out' your identity is, and the less an attack on one of those things will hurt. This pheno…	/r/MensRights	16/11/15 09:16 AM
1	Trying to get rid of sexist/racist thought process In a nutshell: it's tribalism/us-vs-them in politics. It's a focus on people's feelings about who they are, in contrast to other groups of people, instead of actual issues. Identity politics is: "the Muslims are working to have sharia law in the US!". It's political tactics and the underlying psychology that plays on fears people have of people that are different (or seen as different) from them. But as background, someone's personal identity refers to how they view, understand, or label themsel…	/r/MensRights	16/11/15 08:09 AM
1	Trying to get rid of sexist/racist thought process I think what ianmf is saying is that you can use some subtlety to point out the absurdity of the SJW PC establishment as part of your art -- and if it isn't direct, and you're clever, you can actually trick the identity-politics-circuitry while being subversive to it. I'm not sure if you've ever seen Young Adult, but I think it might be instructive here. The screenwriter is apparently a feminist but definitely not a typical one. Her films have been considered full of progressivism and feminism b…	/r/MensRights	16/11/15 07:01 AM
1	Gender, gender everywhere...but not in this study I haven't read the paper, but the following sentence from the article: The effect was largely confined to people with a high school education or less. seems to indicate that the impact would be largely upon men, as they are more likely to fall in this category.	/r/MensRights	03/11/15 09:02 AM
1	What do you think about gender roles and stereotypes? This may or may not be helpful for your schoolwork, but you might find it very educational. Two prominent psychologists debate about the relative influence of biological and social factors (i.e. nature vs. nurture) on the sexes and gender. Steven Pinker is in this, who is linked to on the sidebar for good reason. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bTKRkmwtGY	/r/MensRights	31/10/15 07:21 AM
4	Antifeminism and black box feminism. If I'm reading you both right, I think you both (edit: are misinterpreting each other.) I think you're misinterpreting them because they're coming from the idea that fighting for equality generally includes social equality -- and for good reason. It's very difficult to disentangle political and social equality. If leadership is seen as masculine and not feminine, then how are women supposed to have equal opportunity in the workplace and politics? Strong social pressures tend to bleed into every …	/r/MensRights	31/10/15 05:35 AM
8	Antifeminism and black box feminism. There's a similar analogy that I like -- the distinction between feminism as an academic body of thought, and as a political and social movement. However broad or narrow of an academic definition you use, there are many people who consider themselves feminists, and acting on behalf of feminism, acting in the world. Most of us, regardless of our political leanings, aren't extremely conversant in the theory of our ideological opponents. I'd wager few libertarians have read Marx, and few Marxists h…	/r/MensRights	31/10/15 01:16 AM
1	Male Privilege/White privilege The problem is that privilege -- white, male, or otherwise -- is real, but (edit: the concept) has been weighed down and dumbed down to the point where it's just an in-group/out-group cultural signal and a social weapon. Privilege is real, but it isn't binary -- it's varying and piecemeal. It isn't absolute, it's contextual. It isn't the absence of disadvantage, it's the presence of an advantage. White people don't need to worry about the police in the way black people do. Women don't worry abou…	/r/MensRights	30/10/15 08:21 AM
3	Just a few thoughts from a newcomer. I got here very late, but I'll offer my two cents. I actually migrated to discussing issues primarily on r/menslib, because I'm interested in challenging myself with people that I likely disagree with. One of the realizations I came to while posting there was that one of the biggest obstacles to men's rights that feminism has created is delegitimizing discussion of gender issues in general, and men's issues in particular, outside of a feminist context. When feminism is delegitimizing your very d…	/r/MensRights	11/10/15 09:14 AM
6	Due process group distributes warning flyers to campus men I used to give money to the ACLU -- back when they seemed to support free speech and due process. You know, civil rights.	/r/MensRights	02/09/15 02:45 AM
4	If you thought domestic violence laws were bad enough: presenting PRE-CRIME domestic violence allegations! Murderers have a lower IQ and more severe mental illness than non-murderers. Really. This is news? All this article does is add more stigma around mental illness in general -- most forms of which do not cause violence.	/r/MensRights	27/08/15 04:42 AM
1	Promoted comment: Power versus Positions of Power There are a million approaches from which you can discuss notions of 'power'. But what is one of the most important, most precious form of power? The power to control your own life, to make your own choices. I have no doubt that through large swaths of history , women generally had less of this kind of power than men -- though men had little of in the first place *. But what about now, in the West? Obviously men and women both deal with sexism and gender roles, but ultimately we all really co…	/r/MensRights	15/08/15 04:44 AM
4	So being a female is a unique background? I think this is a bit alarmist, but it's worth a thought experiment. I like trying to think through the economics of it. Any business that hires on anything other than as an objective a set of criteria as they can is going to perform more poorly than others. But there are some danger zones though where this doesn't always apply: Employee performance is not always a very significant factor in maintaining their position (market penetration, capital, etc). Governmental organizations, where performa…	/r/MensRights	12/08/15 07:35 AM
5	Metaphors to support men's rights I like your metaphor, and I'd like to riff on it a bit. This is a problem leftist groups have run into in general. Before anyone get's their feelings hurt, I'm a leftist. Imagine you're on the left, if you aren't already. You're against racism! Yay! Oh yeah, that's just expected of everyone now. When was the last time you I met an admitted racist? So, how can I further solidify my identity as a leftist, or even better, to the hard left? I know, I'll fight for gay rights! Gay marriage has arrived…	/r/MensRights	12/08/15 06:54 AM
1	What we are all aiming for (X-post from TrollXChromosomes) The thing is, I am a feminist and I disagree. That's fine, disagreement is to be expected. But I'd like you to consider the possibility that you don't have great in-depth visibility into this issue. Part of the problem with discussing gender issues is that we tend to base our views around our experiences and the experiences of our friends and family. The only way to get around this at times is resort to studies in order to get away from selection bias. Talking to people unlike ourselves can help…	/r/MensRights	11/08/15 07:50 AM
1	Civil discussion in the gender wars Yeah, he's stuck in pure out-group hate. The issues don't matter to him, he just wants a target and to throw a tantrum. He doesn't like that this sub likes to throw TRP under the bus sometimes? He's adding to that phenomenon.	/r/MensRights	10/08/15 08:43 PM
1	What we are all aiming for (X-post from TrollXChromosomes) The thing is, this isn't uncommon at all--it's ubiquitous. And it's not like there's any way to tell before getting well into a relationship. If you're a man who wants to have an intimate relationship with a woman, there's no way to avoid it unless you get very lucky, or avoid intimate relationships with women entirely. I know feminism loves to blame men's lack of emotional expression on 'masculinity', but a most of it is due to the sexual selection of women. Part of my point is that even the au…	/r/MensRights	10/08/15 08:40 PM
34	Do men know how to complain? Men don't complain because of sexual selection pressure from women. I think Warren Farrell summed it up pretty well. Kurt got a taste of why no one thinks of it this way during a class discussion about whether or not there was equal pay for equal work. He was about to raise his hand and ask why discussions of equality never mention boys’ unequal expectation to pay for drinks, dinners, dates, diamonds and so on. He thought of half-facetiously asking, “what about ‘equal pay for equal love’?” But h…	/r/MensRights	10/08/15 05:04 AM
1	What we are all aiming for (X-post from TrollXChromosomes) OK, this is a little old, but I'll try to give a clearer explanation of why so many people react negatively to this. Outside of the presupposition that violence is really a problem with 'masculinity', there's this: When women talk about the emotional lives of men, most of them have no idea what they're talking about. This goes triple for internet armchair psychologists Even social workers (opposed to internet armchair psychologists) don't really have a clue. This is from 'Daring Greatly', a book…	/r/MensRights	10/08/15 02:38 AM
1	Study reports dramatic sex differences in mate preferences: just 22% overlap - Incredulous Does anyone have access to the study?	/r/MensRights	09/08/15 07:57 PM
5	How do you tell if you are dealing with a rational feminist, or one of the crazies? A simple litmus test is to ask about a men's issue in an indirect way. For example, especially since it appears to be directly relevant to your local politics, you could ask for commentary on the harassment case. All you need to do is explain your concerns--someone is going to trial for harassment for being politically incorrect instead of actually harassing someone--and you can do it from a free speech/open society perspective instead of specifically a men's rights issue. I think that an answer…	/r/MensRights	08/08/15 10:51 PM
2	Gender roles... I'm right there with you; I'm surprised you're getting downvoted. If we can all agree on anything, we should be able to agree that individual couples should be able to choose whatever arrangements they themselves are comfortable with. Anything else is a form of totalitarianism.	/r/MensRights	08/08/15 10:29 PM
4	Gender roles... Part of what we're fighting against is male disposability, which is very much part of the male gender role. I think the problem comes from a lot of people over there confusing us with TRP, or thinking that anything except 'gender role elimination' (or something close to that) 'promotes traditional gender roles'. As usual, people have difficulty understanding there is a spectrum instead of a binary. In the spectrum from 'gender role elimination' to 'traditionalism', MRAs are probably cluster some…	/r/MensRights	08/08/15 08:09 PM
0	Sexism isn't us vs them Any movement of significant size is going to have a distribution of attitudes, instead of everyone agreeing on everything. This is true of men's rights as well as feminism. Of course, everyone want to say the extremists are simply a vocal minority. The extent to which faction is 'real feminism' or 'real mens rights' or 'real democrats', can easily devolve into 'no true scotsman' territory. But for groups and philosophies that impact the world, there is a simple metric for the 'core' of a movemen…	/r/MensRights	08/08/15 07:53 AM
4	Sexism isn't us vs them While the motivation may be good, I have some serious problems with the subtext here. That subtext seems to be that sexism of men is really just indirect sexism of women. The items that really seem to emphasize this: Because it's shameful for men to be weak like women When boys are called, say, a 'sissy', this isn't because 'girls are bad'. They're being told, "You're weak, and being weak is the privilege of women." Women are allowed to be weak, because they have male protection. Men aren't allo…	/r/MensRights	08/08/15 12:26 AM
7	What we are all aiming for (X-post from TrollXChromosomes) After reading the discussions on this post, I have a question for OP. Have you read 'The Myth of Male Power', and if so, what did you think? If you haven't: In terms of non-feminist gender theory in the MRA world, it is basically required reading. The author, Warren Farrell was actually a board member of NOW (NYC). Unfortunately, his work was, ahem, not very well received by the feminist establishment, and was promptly declared an Enemy of the State, so to speak.	/r/MensRights	07/08/15 12:06 AM
4	What we are all aiming for (X-post from TrollXChromosomes) I'm sorry you're getting downvoted. I disagree with you, but you're contributing to the discussion in good faith. On the other hand, even if you're downvoted, that doesn't mean that the discussion will necessarily be bad. On the topic of patriarchy, I think there are some problems with your argument. One is that the anthropological definition of patriarchy is often not how it is used by feminism. You might want to read about motte and bailey. As an example, sometimes 'patriarchy' is used synonym…	/r/MensRights	07/08/15 12:00 AM
17	What we are all aiming for (X-post from TrollXChromosomes) Thank you for participating in honest dialogue. It seems like it's increasingly hard to come by these days with any polarized issue. I'm sure you're going to get a lot of posts trying to give you a lot specific examples, and you're going to feel that it doesn't represent the people that you know. I get that. I'm going to come at this a little differently. I'm sure that there are many moderate feminists out there that don't feel that they are 'against men', but nonetheless are part of the problem…	/r/MensRights	06/08/15 11:33 PM
5	What we are all aiming for (X-post from TrollXChromosomes) Edit: whoops, replied to the wrong comment. Sorry about that. Thank you for participating in honest dialogue. It seems like it's increasingly hard to come by these days with any polarized issue. I'm sure you're going to get a lot of posts trying to give you a lot specific examples, and you're going to feel that it doesn't represent the people that you know. I get that. I'm going to come at this a little differently. I'm sure that there are many moderate feminists out there that don't feel that t…	/r/MensRights	06/08/15 11:29 PM
7	For those in doubt about the intentions of /r/MensLib It seems like the sub is still trying to figure out what it is. I've read a lot of men's liberation material over the years. Feminism is not the primary lens through which everything is examined. It tends to be largely irrelevant. Compatible, and not hated or anything, but just not of primary concern. The primary concern is for men to define their experiences. (makes some comments expecting brigading if the sub is pro-feminist) So, "Let's not make this about feminism". OK, this is about as good …	/r/MensRights	05/08/15 06:04 AM
1	Civil discussion in the gender wars I'm talking specifically about interactions with non-MRAs.	/r/MensRights	05/08/15 03:58 AM
1	TCU Student Suspended for Social Media Posts Speaks Out - Exclusive Interview By this same argument, you could say that every time a man commits a crime (not that this was a crime) and is sentenced, it's a men's rights issue because a woman would have probably gotten a lighter sentence. It's really stretching.	/r/MensRights	05/08/15 03:37 AM
2	Civil discussion in the gender wars OK, I'll make a game of thrones analogy. When John Snow tries to save the wildlings by bringing them south of the wall, his reasoning is that he says "fuck them", and lets them die, then there'll be just that many more white-walkers that they have to fight. I'm making the the same argument. I'm not getting why it is so hard to understand. What benefit there is to 'reasoned debate' with, or for that matter successfully convincing, feminists is beyond me. Do we REALLY want these fucking psychos as…	/r/MensRights	05/08/15 03:35 AM
7	Which Men's Rights issue bothers you the most? Spot on, I agree it's natural for evo-psycho reasons. And won't ever be eliminated. But at the same time, lot's of things are natural and can't be eliminated, but can be managed and controlled. Violent, vicious crime has been a part of human society since the beginning, and always will be. Yet, the violent crime in the US has been steadily declining for decades now. As you've mentioned, we've gone from a society where men are rewarded for adhering to the disposability principle, to one where the…	/r/MensRights	05/08/15 01:34 AM
0	TCU Student Suspended for Social Media Posts Speaks Out - Exclusive Interview How is this a men's rights issue?	/r/MensRights	05/08/15 12:51 AM
66	Which Men's Rights issue bothers you the most? Male disposability. It's far older and deeper-seeded than anything else we're fighting, including feminism. It's why men's issues are disregarded as a matter of course. It's why male victims are erased. It's why even self-described 'progressives' call MRAs whiners. The lives and wellbeing of women are precious; the lives and wellbeing of men aren't. When something bad happens to a woman, it's tragedy. When something bad happens to a man, it's comedy. One of the most crystallizing examples of thi…	/r/MensRights	04/08/15 11:28 PM
1	Civil discussion in the gender wars There's a difference between being moderate and not being receptive. If your opponent is receptive, then that's half the battle. If I try to convince a Christian friend of mine to abandon Christianity, make a lot of good arguments, and they don't become atheist, that doesn't make them a fundamentalist Christian. If they accept my arguments, then they're not Christian any more. If they don't accept my arguments, then they're fundamentalists. This line of reasoning doesn't work -- it defines 'mode…	/r/MensRights	04/08/15 09:39 PM
0	Civil discussion in the gender wars I think the only reasonable responses to intractable, intellectually dishonest retards are scorn, derision and mockery. So there's no objective, you just feel personally satisfied trying to point out how stupid people are. OK. The fact that many MRAs are willing to throw, /r/theredpill, PUAs and MGTOW under the bus just for their perceived misogyny would seem to refute that. I agree that we try to hold more extreme attitudes to account much more than feminism. However, I object to the form of th…	/r/MensRights	04/08/15 04:47 AM
3	Civil discussion in the gender wars There are of course, specific feminists and feminist groups that cause a lot of damage. And pointing out all of these specific examples is a completely valid approach. I'm not arguing against that. If you're arguing against Christianity with someone, and point out that certain Christians have taken actions to make abortion difficult to get in certain places, that's fine. But emotionally lumping in the people you're arguing with as being the same as the extremists isn't productive, and damages an…	/r/MensRights	04/08/15 03:49 AM
2	Civil discussion in the gender wars What's the goal of an interaction in the first place? If we're genuinely trying to convince someone, of course we want them to be receptive. If they're receptive, then feminism is undermined, at least a little. If we aren't trying to win hearts and minds (difficult as that may be), what are we trying to do?	/r/MensRights	04/08/15 03:36 AM
3	Civil discussion in the gender wars I think you're misunderstanding. The end-game isn't that we get feminist allies. The end-game is that they don't identify as mainstream feminists. Just because someone self-labels as a feminist doesn't automatically mean they are an SJW tumblrina. I think there are two main beneficial scenarios in MRAs arguing with individual feminists. Scenario 1: Exposure to the most salient MR arguments can help undermine confidence in feminism. For example, after making some arguments, I've heard defensive "…	/r/MensRights	04/08/15 03:33 AM
1	Civil discussion in the gender wars I actually think many of the MRAs here are too accommodating to feminists. Well, what's the advantage of taking the flame-war approach? I get that it's cathartic. But what's it actually accomplishing other than radicalizing people further? When you call a person a 'fat lesbian bitch', or even something less charged, all they do is get confirmation of their world view. And it's that world view that we want to undermine. It's known that simply encountering facts that contradict your worldview inte…	/r/MensRights	04/08/15 03:17 AM
5	Civil discussion in the gender wars Bigots deserve vitriol. This isn't about what people deserve. This is about analyzing what's productive an what isn't. They want to punish male johns and give female prostitutes a free pass; how is that not a mens rights issue? In as far as that represents a bias towards women, I agree. More generally, I think having legalization a Men's issue in itself is problematic, as it affects both men and women. I'd consider legalization a Men's AND Women's Rights issue. Both would benefit. Feminists (gen…	/r/MensRights	03/08/15 07:53 PM
-1	Civil discussion in the gender wars Troll accuses others of trolling! More at 11. If anyone is wondering about how much of a real troll this person is, look at their post history. And prepare to vomit.	/r/MensRights	03/08/15 07:21 PM
4	Civil discussion in the gender wars Ironically, I linked that very video above. I'm not saying we should stop fighting. I'm saying let's not make ourselves crazy by overly-demonizing 'the enemy'. There is no such thing as a 'extreme' feminist, there are just feminists. Anyone who calls themself a feminist has bought into some sort of gynocentric programing designed to induce hatred or loathing for males I'm going to do something we in MR like to do to feminists to make a point, and switch out a group. There is no such thing as a '…	/r/MensRights	03/08/15 07:03 PM
1	Civil discussion in the gender wars This is part of the reason I wanted to provide the link to the discussion. It may not be common, but it shows it is possible. So writing off someone for calling themselves a feminist from the get-go possibly misses an opportunity.	/r/MensRights	03/08/15 06:53 PM
2	Civil discussion in the gender wars Just because someone isn't receptive to your argument doesn't mean they aren't moderate. I'm not receptive to the arguments I hear from feminists, and that doesn't make me an extremist. Even if you've got the right position, if you're spewing open hostility and/or make poor arguments, of course they're not going to be receptive, regardless of their own place on the spectrum.	/r/MensRights	03/08/15 06:50 PM
1	Civil discussion in the gender wars I think reconsidering your position is always fine, if the argument merits it. If we aren't willing to reconsider our position no matter what, then we've constructed a religion with dogma, just like feminism has. But for an example of what I'm talking about, one of the responses in that thread: You ban it because you're busy-body control freaks. Business is can be defined as mutual exploitation. Both sides benefit. They get more, from their perspective, than what they're giving. When someone lik…	/r/MensRights	03/08/15 08:35 AM
5	Civil discussion in the gender wars On the one hand, I agree completely -- Feminism had deeply-seeded problems at the core of its whole outlook. It may have been that if the topic in that thread was different, that the anti-legalization proponent would have melted with rage, or not. But on the other hand, what I'm trying to point out is that we tend to focus on feminists instead of feminism. Your own comment uses the word feminist, and doesn't use the word feminism. I see this as natural, though problematic, and want to get people…	/r/MensRights	03/08/15 07:49 AM
14	Feminist CEO of a woman's shelter bending over backwards to dismiss male victims of domestic violence. 'Bending over backwards' is an understatement. The data referenced, that approximately a third of victims of domestic abuse in the UK are male comes from data from the British Crime Survey. It contrasts significantly from data from police crime reports which estimate that between 80-90% of violence against the person reported is by women assaulted by men. I suppose she thinks that the full scope of violence against women is represented by crime reports? No? And as men don't like to see themselve…	/r/MensRights	08/07/15 06:32 PM
1	"Rich Nerds Seek Romance Advice From Sex Therapists" I never thought I'd hear Cenk Uygur sounding like a Red Piller.	/r/MensRights	01/06/15 08:19 AM
4	Serious question about education The typical example is that boys -- who are, in this argument, naturally more restless and boisterous -- are penalized for exhibiting boyish behavior, while girls, being more likely to 'sit still', 'listen attentively', etc, don't receive this kind of discouragement for their natural demeanor. I think only some of this comes from a sexist view that girls are 'better'. For example, lobotomies became common not because it was better for the patient, but because it made patient management easier. L…	/r/MensRights	30/05/15 06:48 AM
1	A refreshing defence of due process in regards to rape allegations I don't think this defense is that refreshing. It was too angry, and if you position yourself as antagonistic, you have no chance of getting across to anyone because they dismiss whatever you say out of hand. I think we should challenge ideas, but if you push people too hard, they tend to want to push back. The chances of real dialogue are probably slim anyway, but slim is better than zero. I'd have liked the following points covered, with a slightly less antagonistic tone. I don't think we gain…	/r/MensRights	27/05/15 09:08 AM
1	Hitch: On The Origin Of Social Justice Warriors Or gender (brain chemistry). Or race. Or brain chemistry (sexual orientation). If you're thinking that "gender isn't a physical characteristic and is culturally determined", then this would also undermine the idea that you can draw on your gender as conferring a special privilege to speak on a topic. If you can arbitrarily choose your personal gender identity, then being able to (for example) "speak as a woman" is a privilege that everyone has. When you're saying someone's physical characteristi…	/r/MensRights	02/05/15 09:49 PM
1	Hitch: On The Origin Of Social Justice Warriors You're conflating the notion of "social justice" itself with "social justice warriors", which refers to a particular social/political subculture. And this subculture doesn't have actual justice in mind -- they want personal physical attributes to play a large part in how individuals are treated.	/r/MensRights	02/05/15 06:58 PM
2	Report shows what we all know. Men are pigs who want things. The implications that are being drawn aren't very well thought-out. What is "independence"? If you're thinking about your children, you're thinking in terms of "can they take care of themselves?" If you're thinking about your partner, of course they can take care of themselves, they're an adult. So independence in the context of a relationship is probably imagined as "aloof". I'd bet women give similar weights to their partners and sons. Its the same with attractiveness -- of course attractivene…	/r/MensRights	30/04/15 04:53 PM
3	Why it’s not easy to be a dad in a mom’s world Another example of the feminist double-bind. "Women are burdened with choosing between having a family and having a career when men aren't." At the same time, when men try to take on more parenting responsibility, they're treated with suspicion. You won't find a group with a stronger feeling that "child-rearing is the domain of women" than women, ironically enough. And men respond to this kind of pressure. And this is in addition to the other double-bind -- that men are still expected to be the …	/r/MensRights	22/04/15 07:23 AM
27	On College Campuses, a Shortage of Men - NYTimes.com This is an old article, but it is interesting to see how ongoing this kind of narrative is. Women control the terms of the relationship? Good. Men control the terms of the relationship? Bad. The sexual marketplace is stacked against you, you say? Welcome to the world most men live in their whole lives. Whatever gender you are, if the only people you're willing to be with aren't willing to be with you on your terms, that's their choice. Respect it. If you're willing to be with someone on their te…	/r/MensRights	20/04/15 08:39 AM
6	What ‘Justified’ Reveals About Manhood This entire article dripping with the attitude that what's important about the different kinds of manhood is how they affect and benefit women. Despite her saying that this article isn't about women, that's exactly what it's about. I don't ever see anything in our culture that tells women they should give or risk anything without any expectation of reciprocity or reward. EDIT* grammar	/r/MensRights	25/03/15 06:15 PM
83	Male college student silenced by his professor for challenging the bogus "1 in 5 college women are raped" statistic and the idea of "rape culture" The comments, oh my god the comments... The best part was someone talking about True's "white male privilege". That's right, a black guy's "white male privilege".	/r/MensRights	19/03/15 06:49 PM
3	Woman seeks to create anonymous rape database. One of the criticisms: "How do you know the person reporting isn't an MRA" To be the devil's advocate for a moment: Surveys, used extensively throughout the social sciences are generally anonymous and unverifiable, and this isn't always a problem. The stereotypical survey is part of a randomized cross-sectional study -- a single snapshot of a population at a point in time. If you do a randomized (say, phone) survey about sexual assault, you're going to get a large cross-section of the population. One of the problems with the project in the article (at a minimum) is tha…	/r/MensRights	15/01/15 11:23 AM
6	Woman seeks to create anonymous rape database. One of the criticisms: "How do you know the person reporting isn't an MRA" "How do you know it's not a men's rights activist?" It should be said that this comment didn't come from the subject of the article. Some men's rights activists have undoubtedly been raped and/or otherwise sexually assaulted -- male and female. Someone's political, cultural, and social views don't make someone a non-victim. Does this database allow for male reports of sexual assault? Does it collect the gender of the the submitter as a data point? Sexual orientation? If not, then the person orga…	/r/MensRights	15/01/15 11:08 AM