~ archived since 2018 ~
~ archived since 2018 ~
| Upvotes | Title | Category | Author | Subreddit | Date (UTC) |
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| 64 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy? | rainbow-glass | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 02:04 AM |
| Upvotes | Comment on | Subreddit | Date (UTC) |
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| 2 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?This is an interesting view: women don't want the burden of the triple shift so they opt out of the domestic realm rather than the economic realm because then we remain self reliant, and it has the advantage of being single/double income, no kids, rather than having the financial struggle of kids. I guess the flip side of men opting out of even trying to date because they believe women are unattainable due to jawline related shortfalls, there are women who are opting out of the burden of being p… | /r/ExRedPill | 20/04/25 01:41 AM |
| 2 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?If you wanted to just focus on your original question, you didn't have to respond to my comment. If you wanted to discuss a totally different topic, you should have made your own post. That's how this website works. Derailing other people's posts is poor etiquette. The rest of your post is just putting words in my mouth in the style of 'so you say men and women are different, so what you mean is men should all enslave women and that is right and fair, yes?' I don't know if you do this on purpose… | /r/ExRedPill | 19/04/25 08:04 AM |
| 2 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?If you think patriarchy developed at least in part due to biology, why wouldn’t you consider it to have been necessary for at least some point in history? Again, putting words into my mouth, your assumptions/deductions are wildly off mark, you keep insisting that I am defending patriarchy, and you originally assumed I was a man, so maybe that explains your attitude. It is honestly so exhausting that some feminists embarrass the rest of us by failing to recognise that when people seek to understa… | /r/ExRedPill | 19/04/25 05:07 AM |
| 2 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?If you think patriarchy could ever be “benevolent” or needed, you don’t understand the nature of patriarchy and are, by default, perpetuating it. When people talk about the 'great depression' do you think they're saying it was excellent, brilliant and amazing? This shows it was never "needed" In response to the economic and gender-power system that existed, that was the stick women and men were left with. Saying that they wouldn't have been needed if they hadn't been in that context is a hypothe… | /r/ExRedPill | 19/04/25 04:56 AM |
| 3 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?This isn’t a response to the question, this is a separate point that women want to ‘date up’ and that means that unattractive men have a harder time finding a partners. It’s a leap to say the natural response to that the ONLY option is to join a misogynistic cult rather than finding a different romantic/sexual strategy. | /r/ExRedPill | 19/04/25 04:20 AM |
| 1 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?I don't think it is possible to discuss these issues with men who believe that all women are sluts who just want to have sex with men with big penises and eight-packs and then settle down with a high earning man who she can cuckold by continuing to have extramarital sex. This is extremist, un-nuanced thinking. I also don't think it is possible to discuss the issue with someone who believes that every marriage where the woman keeps the home and raises the children and the man works and earns mone… | /r/ExRedPill | 19/04/25 03:09 AM |
| 2 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?Well, no. You asked ‘what do you believe has changed’ which I explained: men being necessary as providers for a woman to survive economically, shifting to being surplus to requirement but obviously partners in a relationship still pool their resources. The shift has been from one party being necessary because they exclusively access economic resources to what we have now. Now you’re asking a different question: why has this changed men’s approach to masculine identity. This is a new and interest… | /r/ExRedPill | 19/04/25 02:03 AM |
| 1 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?Historically in many cultures women needed the a man to provide financial and social security because women did not have the opportunities to do so themselves. Now that women are able to provide for themselves, they do not require a man, a man is surplus to requirement for economic viability, in many circumstances. This doesn't mean that in individual relationships both don't contribute. When I have been in relationships where I outearn my partner we still both pitch in, but I don't require him … | /r/ExRedPill | 19/04/25 01:09 AM |
| 2 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?Fair point, the title should be 'why have some men'. Any thoughts? | /r/ExRedPill | 19/04/25 12:54 AM |
| 1 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?So your answer is an experience of social redundancy now that women are economically self-sufficient? I think that can play into it. But why do these men see the manosphere as the 'only avenue' rather than adapting to the traits women desire in men now that there is less economic disparity, like emotional availability etc. | /r/ExRedPill | 19/04/25 12:54 AM |
| 3 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?Very true. I remember in 2008 reading stories about bankers killing themselves because the were made redundant or lost loads of money at work. It was scary to think that someone would feel like a failure at life because things took a turn at work. | /r/ExRedPill | 19/04/25 12:20 AM |
| 3 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?I am not going to speak on behalf of Muslim women about what practising hijab means to them, there is plenty of writing by Muslim women on this topic. Relationship with God and cultural expectations are different things, and this is well explored in relation to hijab by Muslim feminists who are more than capable of speaking for themselves. As long as they are wearing hijab because god said so, they are parroting those same opressive ideologies whether they like it or not. I don't agree with this… | /r/ExRedPill | 19/04/25 12:18 AM |
| 2 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?your original post sounds like you think benevolent sexism was done in good faith Only to those with low reading comprehension. I am a feminist, I have always been a feminist, I have long been deeply embarrassed of the way some feminists argue. I feel like some people skip the question and jump to conclusions if a question is phrased in an apotitional way. I am a social scientist, and in academia you can ask a question about a phenomenon without endorsing it. For example one of my colleagues is … | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 11:57 PM |
| 2 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?They say meaner things in public because they aren’t trying to convince women to tolerate their own oppression. According to your explanation, which I agree with, manosphere men do, but benevolent patriarchy men did not. Again, I understand you are saying both manosphere/benevolent patriarchy trad men are BOTH working from a model of gender inequality, this is understood and not disputed, but the expression of it has changed and I would also say (in response to your other comment) that the ideol… | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 11:47 PM |
| 2 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?The role of provider is only there as long as there is a partner who desires/requires to be provided for. because of control not benevolence. the term benevolence in the context of my question is to do with the phenomenon of benevolent patriarchy, it is not a personal endorsement of that as positive or good. | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 11:43 PM |
| 3 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?Men are choosing A over B because there is no need to fake that they care about women’s humanity. In the past, you had to convince women to live in a system that hurts them. There has to be a morally tolerable narrative. Now there doesn’t. This is an answer to the question that is being asked. It’s not because men are being displaced as providers, as you posited elsewhere because no one is banning men from having jobs. They can still be providers if they want. I am not saying that there is one r… | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 11:41 PM |
| 2 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?What do you understand 1) the question to be and 2) my position to be? Answer key: 1) what has caused a societal shift? 2) I haven't placed a normative value on either the before or after phenomena in my post. The myths of benevolent sexism exist Benevolent patriarchy is still bad for both men and women, that isn't the discussion. But if you are looking for an outlet for your individual personal grievances, that outlet can be vicious because it does not need to attract women to its cause. This i… | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 11:34 PM |
| 2 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?I didn't create a problem. I am a woman born in the 90s. Safe to say, I did not create the problem of historical societal inequalities. What was needed was for men to stop hoarding resources and oppressing women. Not to be nice about it when they do. But we aren't playing the game of historical hypotheticals. In a system where only men earned money, be that the time of our grandparents or the times of the Bible, women did not have economic earning power so depended on families and marriages to b… | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 11:20 PM |
| 3 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?For sure, but I think it is also important to recognise that religious symbols mean different things to different people, and just because something has historically been coopted by culture in an oppressive way doesn't mean it can't be reclaimed by women as part of their relationship between themselves and God. One of my friends is a hijabi woman, she's a news anchor, incredibly successful in her home country, an Islamic country, and she is educated, articulate, stunningly successful, and it's s… | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 11:00 PM |
| 2 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?I meant nuclear family of mum, dad and kids as opposed to mum, ex partner who has a new family, but she still has the kids. If a woman is going to make the sacrifice of economic stability by being exclusively a homemaker, there's less risk if she knows her husband will never divorce her even if they aren't in love anymore. If she marries a guy, forfeits career progress to raise kids for 10 years, then he leaves her for a new woman and has more kids, then she is potentially stuck full time parent… | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 10:56 PM |
| 2 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?Yes, very much so. I heard on a TV show something along the lines of phenomena tend to repeat themselves, but we find ourselves in ever more extreme economic disparity, and I think that that has been the shift that really kicked women into the workplace, whilst still requiring domestic labour that was expected to be of women. There hasn't been anything that has kicked men into the domestic space quite like the reality of having to live alone because you can't find a partner, and that's been real… | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 10:50 PM |
| 2 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?I’m telling you those two things are the same. They aren't, though. | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 08:31 PM |
| 2 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?Okay, so the question is why are men choosing A over B. Your response is A and B are bad. Can you see how that doesn't answer the question. If I asked why people are now choosing fentanyl over heroin, 'opioids are bad' doesn't answer the question. Do you understand the difference between discussing a shift in society and defending something in society? | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 08:30 PM |
| 2 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?No, they aren't, as described in the question. I don't think you understood the question, I think you think the question is 'why have men stopped being nice and started being nasty' and jumped on 'nice was never nice' when the question places no normative judgement on either model of masculinity under either model of patriarchy. | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 08:28 PM |
| 1 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?What do you think the question here is? | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 08:26 PM |
| 2 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?My question is about social science, I have described a social shift without taking a perspective, I am not advocating for or against anything and I don't feel I need to, in order to have the discussion. You also aren't answering the question at all. | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 08:25 PM |
| 1 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?Speak for your own grandmother. | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 08:23 PM |
| 1 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?That’s what those men said publicly but privately those benevolent patriarchs raped their wives and beat their kids. I don't think you are discussing in good faith if your perspective is that all men are rapists and all women are victims. This is unrealistic so if you truly believe it then I am not sure we can discuss because we have entirely different ideas on whether all women electing to be married are choosing to be raped, and all men just want to rape their wives. This is not realistic and … | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 08:22 PM |
| 2 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?I had a second thought: I wonder if women in orthodox communities are more likely to be comfortable being financially vulnerable in nuclear relationships because they don't have as much dread of being left destitute with no career and providing care for multiple children, because of the reduced likelihood their marriage will end in divorce due to religious rules or social pressures. It's less of a risk to put all your eggs in the basket of assuming you can be the traditional homemaker when you h… | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 08:19 PM |
| 1 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?Yet some women today want to be mothers and homemakers and abide by their social constructs of definitive gender roles. As a feminist, I think that's fine and good for them as it is a choice they should be able to make if they want to make it. | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 08:15 PM |
| 1 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?So the question is why the shift from one to the other, I am not defending one and condemning the other. | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 08:13 PM |
| 3 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?So the question is why the shift from one to the other, I am not defending one and condemning the other. | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 08:13 PM |
| 1 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?This has been less about answering the question, I don't think you're able to answer it, for all your 'time spend in red pill spaces' because you have to first understand a question to answer it. I have spent a large chunk of my evening trying to slowly and gently help you understand where you're going wrong with your comprehension skills when it comes to understanding a question. I think you probably get it now, maybe you're embarrassed by your original knee jerk reaction to seeing the word pat… | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 07:44 PM |
| 1 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?Right, yes, this is an answer to the question, you are now answering the question. Do you now get the difference between the questions I have been asking in this post are not answered by criticisms (or praise for that matter) of patriarchy? Exposure to toxic content that provides a sense of purpose, community and vindication for boys and young men unhappy with their life circumstances, paired with the rise of algorithmic content that can easily radicalise people. So unlike before (referencing th… | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 07:37 PM |
| 3 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?Do you, like, know any women? And you seem to have deleted your original comment, not sure why. | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 07:28 PM |
| 1 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?You're answering a different question again. It isn't "Why do some children prefer apple juice and others orange juice" it is why has there been a shift from predominantly orange to apple juice. They drink the [...] the juice that is more prevalent in their communities. Okay, so what has happened in their communities that means that orange juice used to be more prevalent and now it is apple juice? Have trade wars caused price hikes on oranges whereas apples are domestically grown? Has there been… | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 07:26 PM |
| 2 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?I wonder if some other cataclysm is needed to balance domestic workload on men. I haven't read the research myself, but apparently when women get very sick, their husbands are more likely to leave them than vice versa, so perhaps the way we have socialised me is that when your wife gets sick, get a new wife, rather than assume more domestic and childcare responsibilities. With regard to starting a family solo, I guess it is more socially acceptable (and biologically possible) to do as a woman. I… | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 07:18 PM |
| 3 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?/u/Opie67 your comment isn't letting me reply but you said: Excellent. Now find a woman who wants to be a mother and supportive of her husband. Wait, women think that role is oppression now. So why be a benevolent patriarch when women don't want to be the woman who that type of man wants? Different women want different things. I live in an area with a large Orthodox Jewish population. Those women are pretty happy in their family contexts. It is also completely rediculous to suggest that women th… | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 06:55 PM |
| 2 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?Clicked into your profile as I was intrigued by your username. Am I right in deducing that you are a Muslim feminist who wears hijab? Feel free to say no, but can I ask what your experiences are in feminist spaces and how do you manage that type of feminism that asserts that a woman who chooses religion has chosen wrong and must just lack critical thinking skills? I have found myself banging my head against a wall time after time listening to subscribers of 'white feminism' insist that Muslim wo… | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 06:41 PM |
| 1 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?Again, your position is that both groups want the same thing, that is a fair perspective to have. It also doesn't answer the question. What do you think the question is? | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 06:32 PM |
| 3 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?Do you think it's fear of there not being a set role for men in society anymore because women are active in both domestic and economic domains? | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 06:26 PM |
| 2 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?I agree, the need for men in strictly gendered societal roles was created by a system of patriarchy that perpetuated itself. If men hadn't hoarded the resources, there would be no false need for patriarchy But they did so it was. I am with you on the point that unjust social systems are oppressive. I do think there is nuance as to how these systems come about. There are biological differences between average women and average men that have played into why gender roles came to be, interesecting w… | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 06:24 PM |
| 1 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?Your stance is 'patriarchy is bad' which is totally irrelevant to this post. I don't know if you fully fail to grasp that that is not what is being asked here, or whether you've realised that your response was irrelevant and are now too embarrassed to say so. | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 06:17 PM |
| 1 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?Respond to my comment, I set things out really clearly in it. My personal positionality isn't relevant to any part of the question because I have not advocated for any position. Someone can ask 'what has caused the shift from booze culture to 0% beers being more popular' and it be irrelevant whether they drink or not. I assumed you were being disingenuous and doing it on purpose earlier to be difficult, but now I don't think so anymore, I think you are just falling into fallacies because you are… | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 06:14 PM |
| 9 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?Thank you, I think this is a really excellent point. The simultaneous wanting to have a 'good wife' without being a 'good husband' and also no one wants to marry you because they don't require you, resulting in any interest they have in you being down to preference, and they don't prefer you because you aren't all that. I can see how that would drive men into the rabbit hole of 'it's my jawline not my personality' and 'all women are terrible because they don't want me.' | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 06:03 PM |
| 1 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?What is your answer though? I don't see these redpillers to be very different than benevolent patriarchs. Valid perspective, two sides of the same coin of patriarchy: I don't disagree. As another commenter mentioned, it's gentle patriarchy vs violent patriarchy. Where I am coming from: I am not defending or advocating benevolent patriarchy, malevolent patriarchy, or any sort of patriarchy. I am trying to understand the social causes of a shift. I am asking the question from a social sciences per… | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 05:54 PM |
| 1 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?Yes, I gave some of my thoughts, then asked other people their thoughts. You then came in acting as if I had said 'benevolent patriarchy is great, why don't we go back to that?' and never actually answered the question. You said: I say it's all the same thing.They still want control. They're just using some slightly different talking points too garner that control. It's just modern messaging, same intent. CONTROL Which doesn't answer the question that is being asked. The question you are answeri… | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 05:43 PM |
| 2 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?I think there is a valid theory in the first bit of their answer: Young men want to be attractive, enter the dating market, succeed in meeting someone who they can start a family with. But fulfilling the socially expected role of a benevolent patriarch doesn't get you anywhere in a society where women no longer require or to necessarily desire a benevolent patriarch. Women are more self-sufficient and we aren't forced to depend on men we don't genuinely want to partner with, therefore we no long… | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 05:27 PM |
| 2 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?Sure, I do not advocate for either of these models. I am not saying 'a good thing has shifted to a bad thing' I am saying 'a thing has shifted to another thing: what has caused the shift?' | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 05:16 PM |
| 5 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?They want back the privileges of the past without having to relinquish any of the privileges of the present. Can you expand on this bit please? | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 05:14 PM |
| 2 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?The example that comes to mind here is the Biblical story of Ruth, which is more than anything a Kinsman Redeemer story than a love story. Another thought I just had based on your comment: women are being socialised to be more egalitarian, shifting from an emphasis on domestic and childrearing responsibilities as contribution to a household and society, to also being economically independent (shift into women filling factory roles during the war, and many being widowed after and maintaining indu… | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 05:12 PM |
| 1 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?The question is about social shifts, not 'is patriarchy bad' so appropriate answers seek to explain a social shift, not comment on whether it is good or bad. My original post also does contain three different possible explanations. I provided them to give my speculations, but I see here they could also have served to demonstrate the nature of the question to those really really struggling to understand it. I gather you are probably older than a highschooler, so think back to when you had to answ… | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 05:00 PM |
| 4 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?It's interesting though to see the obsession with virginity transitioning from religious purity culture into a secular equivalent in the manosphere community. | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 04:10 PM |
| 3 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?Yes this is where you have misunderstood. I am asking why have men with a preference for patriarchal romantic relationships shifted from one model of masculinity to another. You are saying because they want to be in patriarchal models. Yes, that is evident. You then go on to discuss that patriarchy is bad as if I am saying it is good. I think that traditional 'benevolent patriarchy' is harmful to men and women, for obvious reasons. The question here is not 'why are the men all so awful' 'it's be… | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 03:46 PM |
| 3 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?Hear me out on this, you come across as saying that you don't see women as having agency or making choices based on their own will unless their choices match up with yours. If a woman chooses to uphold cultural or religious values, then she hasn't broken free, and women who do reprogram and don't leave the Church do so because of social consequences. You aren't considering the women who choose to stay within the Church as having made a valid choice because of their preferences after critical tho… | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 03:41 PM |
| 2 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?Red pill influencers don't have that luxury so they take the shortcut of giving you a group to hate: women. That's an interesting take: does the manosphere offer a sense of community based on a common enemy, as well as offering a supposed solution to men having a hard time dating. | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 03:38 PM |
| 5 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?I think you're right, purity culture plays into it a lot I would imagine for men whose parents thought they were raising them to be gentlemen, but accidentally raised them to believe a woman who is not a virgin is less than, thus turning them into bitter men seeking the red pill. | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 03:35 PM |
| 1 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?Well, I don't make demands of any women. Hold on, yes you do: In order to break free of this programming, a person has to deprogram themselves and reprogram new thought processes. | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 03:32 PM |
| 2 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?Good luck with your video, but I don't think you have understood this post at all. I am not advocating for one model of patriarchy over another, I am asking what has happened in society that has made men shift from one model to another, without calling either good. Answers might be economic shifts, social shifts, etc. You have really fixated onto 'but patriarchy is bad' and I don't know if it has dawned on you yet that this post isn't at all saying 'why have men moved on from a system I like to … | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 03:30 PM |
| 1 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?What do you understand the question in this post to be? | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 03:20 PM |
| 2 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?If your default position is that women who choose religion are not able to think critically or are somehow less brave or able than you, fixing onto the truth that it is hard to leave one's culture because of social consequences, this positions women as unable to empower themselves or choose their own beliefs, which lacks intersectionality. This is the type of feminism in France that demands women remove their hijabs. | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 03:20 PM |
| 3 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?Sorry if I have misunderstood, your comments have employed several argumentative falacies so I assumed you were arguing in bad faith because you haven't addressed the question at all, and it came across that you were deliberately misunderstanding the question, but maybe you actually just didn't understand what was being asked here. You have stated your view: 'patriarchy is bad' but that isn't what's being discussed here, so it came across as so forcefully beside the point of the question it came… | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 03:16 PM |
| 2 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?But these two views of a family model are not comparable to covert and overt racism, this comparison doesn't hold water. | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 03:11 PM |
| 2 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?Everyone is socialised into everything so by this logic nothing is a free choice and no one has free will, unless you think that religious women lack critical thought, but women who are socialised to reject religion/cultural tradition don't, which is patronising and not very intersectional. | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 03:09 PM |
| 2 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?If you can't have a discussion in good faith then there is no discussion to be had with you. | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 03:05 PM |
| 3 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?The situation you're describing is not really beneficial for women anyway. To be clear, I'm not advocating for either, and I understand that outside of bubbles (where I live, the Orthodox Jewish community and LDS community) most secular or even religious women don't desire a patriarchal model of society. I do understand that, but I am specifically wondering about the shift in models of masculinity, not defending one form and condemning another. I think that both forms of masculinity have been ha… | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 03:04 PM |
| 6 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?Note for the outraged commenters who don't read to the end of a sentence: I am not advocating for either of these things, I am simply reflecting on a social phenomenon and trying to understand why a social shift has happened. I think maybe this is it, actually, being a 'gentleman' who wants to provide and protect and treasure a partner doesn't mean anything if there aren't women who are looking for that. Outside of orthodox religions, there are fewer and fewer women looking for that because in t… | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 02:57 PM |
| 2 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?I have been on plenty of dates with men who are impressive and good looking, but if I don't get butterflies when I'm with them and I don't enjoy spending time with them, then we will have to stay friends and not be in a relationship. It isn't unreasonable to want the person you're with to stir within you a positive reaction, and this does not equate to them being a 'toy to entertain you', you are being disingenuous to suggest so. People enter into relationships with people who make them feel pos… | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 02:53 PM |
| 3 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?I don't disagree that there is still inequality or systemic oppression. I am not advocating for either position, I am wondering why one fell out of fashion for the rise of the other. | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 02:47 PM |
| 3 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?I didn't say I thought you wanted any type of patriarchy. I am asking why men in society have gone from one type of patriarchal idea to another. I am not saying one is better than the other if either is the only option, but, actually, lots of women, particularly in religious societies, like Orthodox Judaism and the LDS Church do elect to be in patriarchal marriages, as is their choice. | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 02:45 PM |
| 3 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?I'm not advocating for either view, I am wondering why men looking for models of masculinity no longer look to the one that was prevalent in modern history and instead have gone for this new, worse thing. And I guess the aspect I didn't account for in my theory was that there are no longer as many women outside, for example, the LDS Church or Orthodox Judaism who are looking for that type of relationship dynamic, therefore becoming a 'gentleman who provides and leads' is a redundant role. | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 02:42 PM |
| 3 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?I'm not necessarily advocating for benevolent patriarchy, I'm wondering why when given the choice, men go for a toxic model of patriarchy rather than a chivalrous one, without advocating for either model as correct. Why does the teenage guy who can't get girls decide they need to become a pick up artist who desires to subjugate all the 'sluts' rather than an old fashioned gentleman who wants to settle down with a wife who he loves and who loves him. | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 02:40 PM |
| 3 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?People choose to be in relationships/marriages because they like the other person, and how that person makes them feel. People don't choose to be in relationships with partners who they admire, but who treat them poorly or make them feel badly about themselves. I did not say that this was a gendered quality, I was offering an alternative reason that a man might be motivated to marry a woman other than as an accessory, or a 'commodity to be sold and not a [person] to be heard or understood', as t… | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 02:35 PM |
| 3 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?Learn to read to the end of a sentence please. | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 02:28 PM |
| -1 | Why have men in search of masculine identity veered toward the 'manosphere' rather than a traditionally masculine identity based in benevolent patriarchy?If benevolent patriarchy has ever "valued" women like you say. It valued them as commodities to be sold not as people to be heard or understood. I think it can go either way. You could see a wife as an accessory to a successful life or a person you delight in spending time with because her smile lights up the room and her sense of humour makes you forget your worries. | /r/ExRedPill | 18/04/25 03:31 AM |
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