~ archived since 2018 ~
~ archived since 2018 ~
| Upvotes | Title | Category | Author | Subreddit | Date (UTC) |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0 | Where am I? | Anti-MRM | restatementtorts | /r/MensRights | 15/10/20 09:38 PM |
| Upvotes | Comment on | Subreddit | Date (UTC) |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Where am I?Legal obligation merely describes something one will be liable for if one does not do it. It’s not like you are compelled to do it. For example, you have a legal obligation to have liability insurance on the condition you use national roads. If you don’t, you get civil or criminal sanctions. Same thing with taxes and SS. You can voluntarily choose not to pay taxes or sign up for the SS, but you will be sanctioned criminally and/or civilly. The law says you have to do it, but if you choose not to… | /r/MensRights | 17/10/20 07:28 PM |
| 1 | Where am I?Well what type? Legal, moral, ethical? I really don’t see why my original point is that controversial, given that the heading of this sub states clearly that it advocates for legalrights. | /r/MensRights | 17/10/20 07:48 AM |
| 1 | Where am I?What is there to respond to? It’s just taking the mick. Taxes fit the same logical structure as above so what more can I say that will be illuminating? You can choose not to pay taxes, and that has consequences. Most crimes (except where there is a legal duty) are voluntary and active actions that cause social harm. You have to actively and voluntary kill another person to commit murder. With the SS and taxes, you can just do nothing voluntarily and maintain the status quo. You just have to deal… | /r/MensRights | 17/10/20 03:59 AM |
| -1 | Where am I?Okay, here’s the issue that you are not fully grasping. What is a statute? What is a criminal statute? When you do statutory analysis, you have to identify the elements of the offense. When a male rapes another, there are elements to that offense. The equivalent female version has different elements because they are anatomically different. I don’t know why the UK did it that way. States in the US don’t. They use the “sexual Intercourse.” But nevertheless, the UK has different statutes. But what … | /r/MensRights | 16/10/20 07:32 AM |
| 0 | Where am I?I’m no expert in UK law, but see https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/rape-and-sexual-offences-chapter-2-sexual-offences-act-2003-principal-offences-and. Take notice of the note on Section 4: One of the purposes of this offence, in addition to the wider range of sexual activity, is to create a female equivalent of the offence of rape, which carries the same level of punishment for what amounts to the same type of offending behaviour. I mean I’m not expert in UK law, but the tradition is pretty … | /r/MensRights | 16/10/20 07:12 AM |
| 1 | Where am I?But that’s not my issue. The issue is that I don’t know the case law. I don’t even know how India operates legally. | /r/MensRights | 16/10/20 05:40 AM |
| 1 | Where am I?Your timeline is a bit off. Sure liberal democracy as we know it is a recent invention, so by implication everyone’s having a vote is recent. But even within that short time frame, women did not have suffrage until fairly recently. | /r/MensRights | 16/10/20 05:40 AM |
| 1 | Where am I?You can choose not to. The fact that consequences exist doesn’t mean that it is not a voluntary choice. But I suspect that that is the aspect that the Supreme Court (if it grants cert on that case about the SS) that it will have problems with. | /r/MensRights | 16/10/20 05:38 AM |
| 2 | Where am I?Appreciate the sentiment. But it’s no big deal. | /r/MensRights | 16/10/20 03:02 AM |
| -1 | Where am I?Umm I think you are really mixing words up and that’s what is causing confusion. In Craig v Borren, Oklahoma has a law that allowed women over 18 to buy alcohol. Men couldn’t buy alcohol until 21. Was this law discriminatory? Yes. Was it struck down on the basis of the equal protection clause? Yes. What other laws can you point out that is likewise discriminatory on the basis of sex? | /r/MensRights | 16/10/20 01:53 AM |
| 1 | Where am I?So it is a district court case. It’s not really meaningful yet. | /r/MensRights | 16/10/20 01:03 AM |
| 1 | Where am I?Those aren’t rights now are they? This is my point: if you are going to speak of rights, make sure you know what you are talking about. | /r/MensRights | 16/10/20 01:02 AM |
| 1 | Where am I?Whatever the motivations, it’s not like it was women who imposed this on men. And legally speaking this notion of benefit vs. obligation shows up all the time. I can see an issue if it conditions constitutional rights but the denial of financial aid is not a constitutional right. | /r/MensRights | 16/10/20 01:01 AM |
| 1 | Where am I?No I’m not. The fact that it’s a legal right provides legal recourse. If it’s not a legal right, then there is no recourse. | /r/MensRights | 16/10/20 12:57 AM |
| 1 | Where am I?So it’s a district court case...so? We still have to wait for possibly two further reviews. For all we know, the fifth circuit will rule against the district court. Then the men’s group will appeal for cert at the Supreme Court. If the Supreme Court denies cert, then the fifth circuit ruling will be law. It’s a bit premature to say that this says anything. But I’m okay either way it goes. I can already see what issues will be coming up. It’s no guarantee that it’ll be declared unconstitutional. … | /r/MensRights | 16/10/20 12:56 AM |
| -2 | Where am I?Of course you can advocate your rights. But which of these rights does US law violate? Give me specific examples. I mean is this that hard? | /r/MensRights | 16/10/20 12:51 AM |
| 1 | Where am I?What’s the case? I keep hearing it was ruled but I would love to read the case. Pretty sure that it wasn’t. | /r/MensRights | 16/10/20 12:50 AM |
| 0 | Where am I?What “law” besides the one I mentioned in the post? | /r/MensRights | 16/10/20 12:49 AM |
| 0 | Where am I?My objective is not to bash. I don’t see why any of my comments or my post bashes. But the list doesn’t support a case that men’s rights are being denied or infringed. If anything, the list shows a stark ignorance on the law. What do those statistics prove legally? Also, there is something called “standard of review.” For example, if you are claiming that the trial court abused its discretion, on review the appellate court will interpret the trial court’s position more favorably. That’s just the… | /r/MensRights | 16/10/20 12:48 AM |
| 0 | Where am I?What is MRA? Is it a legal concept? Never heard of it. Okay, besides a legal right, what other meaningful “right” is there? A moral right? Sure. But how is that cashed out meaningfully here? What implications are there? Frankly, I can’t see it. It certainly isn’t enforceable or protected. What is protected? Legal rights. So what other rights are you claiming besides legal rights? | /r/MensRights | 16/10/20 12:41 AM |
| 1 | Where am I?No I’m saying it’s a legal duty. I mean our entire tort law on negligence is based around duties. I benefited from my signing onto SS. If you don’t care for the benefits and want to deal with the legal consequences, you are free to not comply. I don’t see why you think you don’t have a choice. | /r/MensRights | 16/10/20 12:10 AM |
| 1 | Where am I?Did you read my post? That’s the one legal issue I raised. | /r/MensRights | 16/10/20 12:08 AM |
| 1 | Where am I?Can you provide the citation? It’s important to see the reasoning. | /r/MensRights | 16/10/20 12:07 AM |
| -1 | Where am I?I’m confused. First, what is the thesis of feminism? Isn’t it the position that men and women should be treated oh equally (under the law and in other spheres)? I don’t see why that is an objectionable thesis. Second, why do you think police are trained to target adult relatives in child abduction cases? Maybe because statistically they are usually responsible. Third, the notion of a right is a legal concept. If you want to advocate beyond the legal sphere, go ahead. But the name “men’s rights” … | /r/MensRights | 16/10/20 12:06 AM |
| -1 | Where am I?I mean there are a lot of laws that have statistically disproportionate effects on certain groups. Look at Terry stops (better known as stop and frisk) and what the data says about that. Much the same with DVRO’s. Is it the law’s problem or training? Maybe the issue is about better police training (like in the case with stop and frisk) than the law itself. A mechanics lien on a property can also be devastating reputation-wise, financially, and what have you. But so what? That doesn’t mean proper… | /r/MensRights | 15/10/20 11:45 PM |
| 1 | Where am I?No I don’t agree. I signed up for the SS. If called to serve in a draft I will proudly. I mean use some critical thinking. If it’s constitutionally discriminating, why has it not been struck down? Why has no male lawyer taken on the challenge? Complain all you want, but nothing is being done about it legally so it’s a bit of a moot point. | /r/MensRights | 15/10/20 11:37 PM |
| 0 | Where am I?Right. And what human rights are men being denied? Also, there is no legal obligation by sovereign states to institute those rights. Ironically, it was Eleanor roosevelt who was primarily responsible for that. | /r/MensRights | 15/10/20 11:33 PM |
| 0 | Where am I?What law? Are you just referring to the notion of preferential treatment? Or are you talking about a specific law? The group is named “men’s rights,” which implicates legal rights. That’s my point and your response doesn’t address that. I mean I agree that some policies are lame, but that doesn’t necessarily implicate law. | /r/MensRights | 15/10/20 11:31 PM |
| -2 | Where am I?I’m confused. Those seem mostly reasonable. Let’s be clear, some of those laws were written by men and for men. What happens if you are automatically granted parental rights by simply being the biological father? You have legal liability. Say that that law didn’t exist and men who biologically fathered a child is automatically granted parental rights. Then you’ll have men complaining that they have legal liability for children they didn’t want and they had out of wedlock. However you slice it, m… | /r/MensRights | 15/10/20 11:29 PM |
| 1 | Where am I?I’ve already addressed most of these points in my other comments. | /r/MensRights | 15/10/20 11:26 PM |
| -4 | Where am I?Which rights are being denied? That’s my question. Let’s take it further and more to your suggestion: what human rights are being violated and where are these human rights? UN charter? Treaty? Resolution? Be specific. | /r/MensRights | 15/10/20 11:25 PM |
| -1 | Where am I?There are so many things in here and not much in legal issues. The statistics don’t support any legal point so it is irrelevant. As for penetration (why is this such a big issue? I see it repeatedly show up on here. Go see your state penal code and see what the elements of rape is. It doesn’t say it has to involve penetration). I mean evidence rules already makes exceptions for penetration evidence and it certainly does not involve a penis (see evidence rule 412 I believe). Again, the rest of yo… | /r/MensRights | 15/10/20 11:23 PM |
| -1 | Where am I?I already answered that here in one of the comments. | /r/MensRights | 15/10/20 11:20 PM |
| -2 | Where am I?What? I mean how do you think the law works? First of all, speedy trials. Which trials? Criminal? Civil? Who is bringing the suit? If it’s criminal, then it’s the state or government and there are restrictions on what the government can force you to do (see constitution). Now if you are the man and want to sue for damages for tort, then that’s different. You still can’t force anyone to get an abortion, but you can sue for punitive or monetary damages. I mean I’m confused here. | /r/MensRights | 15/10/20 11:19 PM |
| 1 | Where am I?Sure that’s the prerogative that people can have. But it’s nonsensical to me. In any case, cheers and have a good one. | /r/MensRights | 15/10/20 11:15 PM |
| -5 | Where am I?It’s a bit of a stretch to say male contraceptives are not covered. There is research for a male contraceptive that can be taken orally. You think the language there (which is not the law itself but a administrative regulation) would exclude that? Again, if that’s such a big issue, why don’t you file a lawsuit and challenge the constitutionality of it facially? It’s easy to complain, where’s the work? | /r/MensRights | 15/10/20 10:57 PM |
| -2 | Where am I?Exactly my point. If you don’t restrict yourself to rights, change the name. Like I said, “feminism” doesn’t restrict itself to rights. But the name “men’s rights” does. It’s easy to infer: equality for women necessarily means equality for men. It’s about a frame of reference. If we want to be level, but some are lower than men, then equality can only be achieved by the women being pushed up or men being pushed down. You may not like what you see, but that’s because it’s dependent on your frame … | /r/MensRights | 15/10/20 10:54 PM |
| -4 | Where am I?So you meant reproduction rights differently than it is commonly used (in reference to abortion) or at least you stretched it. I’m aware of that case. But is that a reproduction issue? It’s a liability issue. Completely different. Does the victim of statutory rape escape civil liability to the mother? I mean if you read the actual case it makes sense. What are the salient facts that the court highlighted? | /r/MensRights | 15/10/20 10:49 PM |
| -2 | Where am I?What is the position of feminism? Is it not the position that women should be equal to men? Does that necessarily imply legal equality? No. Sure, feminists fight for legal issues where they are denied legal rights. But that doesn’t mean that they only advocate for legal rights. But this is where the notion of “men’s rights” makes no sense. Like feminism, it seems like “men’s rights” is advocating for equal treatment of men and women. The key difference is that the movement’s name denotes a legal… | /r/MensRights | 15/10/20 10:45 PM |
| -7 | Where am I?Besides 3, 6, and 7 those aren’t legal rights. Sure, I can show you the case law that grants those “rights” but legally they aren’t rights. For example, the notion of reproduction “rights” is not a legal right, but one derivative of ones right to privacy in the fourteenth amendment. | /r/MensRights | 15/10/20 10:37 PM |
| -3 | Where am I?If you read my post, I did mention parental custody rights. I agree. Well the contraceptives thing is just a function of science. There is research trying to develop male contraceptives. So this doesn’t really matter at the moment: in legal parlance, the issue isn’t “ripe” yet and won’t be until a viable male contraceptive is developed. Male circumscission point is a bit obnoxious for several reasons. First, we live in a judeo-Christian society. The law in this country is not immune to that. Fur… | /r/MensRights | 15/10/20 10:34 PM |
| -2 | Where am I?Let’s suppose you are right. You are telling me that if a case was before the Supreme Court that the SS violates, say, the 14th amendment that it will be struck down? Go look up Craig v Borren. In that case, there was a state law that required men to be 21 to buy liquor and women to be 18. The Supreme Court struck down the law because it violated the 14th amendment because it discriminated against men. If a potential challenge to the SS were to go to Supreme Court, I think it is obvious that the… | /r/MensRights | 15/10/20 10:27 PM |
| -7 | Where am I?Be a man about it and deal with the arguments. First of all, your link is wrong on several points. Obamacare was passed in 2010; Obama’s first term. As for the rape thing, citing statistics doesn’t matter. That’s not what the law says. Thats the salient point because you are talking about rights. Like I wrote in my post, go look at the federal rules on evidence 412-413 (I think?) They specifically list penetration to cover ambiguities like you mentioned. That’s the law and it’s way more salient … | /r/MensRights | 15/10/20 10:19 PM |
| 0 | Where am I?I don’t know about India so I can’t comment. But I can tell you that’s not the case in the U.S. | /r/MensRights | 15/10/20 10:12 PM |
| -2 | Where am I?Well I disagree with your conception of a right. Legally speaking, your construal is not accurate. Also, you don’t have to register for the selective service. You can be denied benefits or deal with the benefits. Frankly, it’s not as if some feminist propaganda made the SS. It was because traditionally men were the ones fighting in the military so the draft pool had to be men. That’s the traditional notion, and it is as traditional as women not working and staying at home to raise children. Wors… | /r/MensRights | 15/10/20 10:12 PM |
| -2 | Where am I?...those aren’t rights. That’s police procedure for any crime. So how does that deny men rights? It doesn’t implicate due process, nor does that violate evidence rules in court. It’s not like a cop won’t follow the same procedure if a man were to file harassment charges against a woman. As for the corporate law issue, I presume you are taking about the California law. What does that law say? It hardly makes a “balanced ratio.” The requirement is each publicly-traded corporation headquartered in … | /r/MensRights | 15/10/20 10:05 PM |
| -6 | Where am I?What rights? Unless you can point out of a specific legislation that deprives men of rights the discussion is a non-starter. | /r/MensRights | 15/10/20 09:52 PM |
| -6 | Where am I?I did. My point stands: what particular rights are being denied to men? I pointed out one but I don’t see many posts about that so do people not care? If the position is about “men’s issues” then it’s a dishonest to call the movement “men’s rights”. | /r/MensRights | 15/10/20 09:50 PM |
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