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sarahelizam Archive

View 0 posts and 110 comments by sarahelizam on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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3

I think that (your boss’s perspective) is extremely admirable. To your last point, I think there is nuance. An individual doing harm to another individual is bad, but we must create opportunities to change. Crimes that are coordinated, enabled, and demanded by those in positions of power are a bit different. Miller, Noem, Trump, Bondi, etc are all dictating policy that will harm thousands, millions. There is a reason we developed jurisprudence in whole cloth to try people for Nuremberg. You do n…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/01/26 08:22 AM
2

It’s very frustrating. I’m a trans guy, I also call myself a feminist because I think it is possible to have a feminist framework that is against all gender essentialism (I would argue feminism that tolerates that is pretty shit in general), including that which is aimed at men. I interact with men and women, feminists and otherwise who hold gender essentialist ideas generally the same way. I ask questions beyond the jargon used - what do they mean when they say this thing. I try to expressive e…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/01/26 06:10 AM
1

(The rest is not directed at you specifically, but my thoughts for guys fixated on the pills and the OP. In general I’m not assuming you have the perspectives I address in my comment, but am reacting to general trends I see in how guys reduce men and women down to these flat monolithic caricatures and misunderstand how we have devolved the meaning of masculinity especially in the last couple decades.) Be manly (whatever that means to you) or stop fixating on being manly and try to be something e…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/10/25 01:04 AM
1

I’m just a trans so not who you’re asking about, but my friends who are women? Yeah, they go after the men that everyone here considers too effeminate or try hard for trying to dress themselves nicely or uniquely or just in a fun way. Absolutely for casual sex, and often dating as well. There is some wild disconnect going on here that seems almost impossible to fix. Men here keep trying to appeal to the average woman’s preferences as if she’s a person (or collection of clones around the center o…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/10/25 01:04 AM
1

In general men playing it too “safe” aesthetically is a major disadvantage in dating, having lived in both conservative and liberal areas and having been on both sides of the equation of straight dating. Because guys, too many of you are just trying to look identical with no consideration of the attributes you have that you should play up. You don’t stand out on the apps or in a crowd. Obviously people should feel free to dress authentically, but many men aren’t even doing that since they never …
/r/PurplePillDebate05/10/25 11:20 PM
2

I think they’re just meaning it goes against conventional wisdom that most women would think that type of clothing is appealing or even acceptable. I’m going to go on a bit of a ramble here because I have a lot of thoughts on men’s presentation/styling and the cultural forces that shape and limit it. I have my personal advice at the bottom (I use the generic “you” a lot, not aimed at you personally), but I do want to acknowledge the cultural forces that lead to takes like the ones many men here …
/r/PurplePillDebate05/10/25 11:10 PM
6

To add to your point: Is There a Moral Incongruence Bias in Some Sex Therapists? - study showing that the people who diagnose and treat “porn addiction” are broadly sex negative, much more religious, and see essentially any use of porn as addiction. They also claim they are or were porn addicts too at a wildly high rate. There is no shred of objectivity to be found among the “experts” on porn addiction. They are anti-porn for conservative reasons (see article below), not feminist ones. Is Porn A…
/r/ExRedPill23/08/25 10:58 PM
2

Many aren’t (just like many men want very feminine women). But honestly a fair amount do. My partner is a somewhat flamoyant bi man. The more femme or gender nonconforming he dresses the more women approach him (and ask him out), or even grope him in club settings (which is not chill, but indicative of something). We’re poly and he generally has date nights scheduled 5 nights a week lol. He’s attractive but not like crazy attractive - it’s his vibe, the way he speaks passionately, or dances for …
/r/PurplePillDebate20/06/25 12:25 AM
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Yup. There is a decent amount of queer analysis (and even general feminist analysis) that is basically just about this and you explained it perfectly well (whether or not you arrived here from either of those perspectives). It’s frustrating to see ostensibly progressive people reinvent old school homophobia and the original TERF movement by using the same logic, then deny that’s what they’re doing. They know the labels for bigotry are bad, but don’t understand where the bigotry (including sexism…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/25 10:25 PM
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These are excellent points. When your only framework is a feminism that lacks much intersectionality or other mode of analysis and is essentially geared towards misogyny being the defining structure of society, it becomes a “when all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail” situation. The role of misogyny, as significant as it is, gets overstated and you try to explain everything with the one framework you have. In feminist circles I try to introduce other more specific language to tal…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/03/25 01:37 AM
1

I mean… that whole comment was a criticism of the women who buy into this logic, who don’t recognize their own prejudices. Idk how you could even misconstrue it as me blaming men for women being sexist and/or homophobic to them.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/03/25 10:53 PM
1

Thank you! And fair lol, obviously I try to put out perspectives that might be useful to people here, but sometimes I write a tangent that’s on my mind even if I know it’s unlikely to be received well. Practice explaining ideas (which helps me process and reflect on them), seeing what people connect with, what language puts them off - these things can still be useful, at least to me lol
/r/PurplePillDebate21/03/25 08:51 PM
2

Okay, what is your alternative hypothesis for why we treat sex involving a penis (whether two men or a man and woman) as “real” sex and not sex between two women? Why is it only penis in vagina sex that we see as taking virginity as opposed to hands stuff or oral? Why is there so much insecurity around penis size, to the point some dudes really be out there suicidal over their dick length? That’s not even starting on how transphobia normally centers on the “threat” of trans women and ignores tra…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/03/25 08:39 PM
2

Sex negative feminists are ass, unfortunately they are a rather loud voice. I haven’t run into hardly any sex negative feminist irl though. Maybe my experience is the outlier, but there are plenty of sex positive feminists (who also believe sex positivity is important and needed for men). Not here to make arguments for your opinion of feminism as a whole (how could I, it’s a bunch of factions that argue with and contradict each other), but there do exist feminists who don’t agree with the online…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/03/25 08:29 PM
0

This is feminism saying it’s bad to treat penises and men like that. It’s a critique of a society obsessed with dicks, that sees interacting with a dick as corrupting. Seeing queer men as less than men because they have touched other dicks is one obvious example, but the entire way we talking about virginity as something taken from women but don’t count lesbian sex as “real sex” (because no peeped) is indicative. If society was less weird about dicks we wouldn’t have to make up words to describe…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/03/25 06:31 AM
4

I mean I’m not here to police who people find attractive lol. But I will ask people to maybe examine why they have those preferences, and if they are based on a disgusting response to explore that with curiosity. We all have biases, we didn’t choose them. I’m not trying to moralize that. But we can take the opportunities to explore them, figure out how they might harm others or ourselves (internalized bias), and decide if we want to try to put the effort into unpacking them. I don’t necessarily …
/r/PurplePillDebate20/03/25 11:30 PM
2

Exactly. I wish the whole “ick” thing would die. It can include anything from legit red flags for abusive or controlling behavior to bigotry to simple incompatibility. It’s lack of specificity only muddled communication and gives the people using it a way to deflect from questioning their views.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/03/25 10:19 PM
5

Hey, you don’t have to like it as an umbrella term. Feel free to use another one. If you read a negative connotation into queer, that’s fine. But queer just denotes different from cis/heteronormativity to most of us. Many events and groups are marketed within the community as queer. People have use homo as a slur forever, that doesn’t mean people can’t use the word homophobic. It’s hard to find an adjective for lgbt folks that hasn’t been used as a slur (including all the terms in the acronym). …
/r/PurplePillDebate20/03/25 10:15 PM
4

Most of us call ourselves queer, it’s generally only the older generation that see it as only a slur. I suppose you could say LGBT+phobia, but since most identify with the term queer and it is inclusive of everyone in the acronym in meaning, it seems silly to police our language about what we call ourselves and the issues we face 🤷🏻
/r/PurplePillDebate20/03/25 08:14 PM
4

In general, I think you have a decent grasp on this (coming from a trans bi person who has sort of been on both sides and at this point mostly dates bi men). I think misandry and misogyny are interrelated, trans people tend to experience a lot of both even after coming out. You can’t have gender essentialist ideas about women without also having them about men and vice versa; that’s where a binary understanding of gender leads you. The reason a lot of women (unfortunately straight and bi) tend t…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/03/25 08:10 PM
22

So generally, yes! This is what Phallocentrism refers to. It sees the penis as powerful but also corrupting, which imo is pretty harmful for men in some ways as well. Seeing a body part (and often implicitly its size) as both integral to social worth but also as borderline dangerous is not exactly a great mindset, but it’s endemic. I do want to say, in spite of some narratives I’ve seen out there in more straight circles, no, not all queerphobia is misogyny with extra steps. (I know that’s not w…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/03/25 06:54 PM
1

Oh totally. This shit is fascinating to me honestly, if often sad or frustrating. I was never the “right type of woman” before figuring out I was transmasc, though honestly the pressure to be was more from women in my conservative little town growing up. A lot the the guys in my life back in high school either saw me as essentially a dude and/or were just enthused that I didn’t expect them to perform this “masculine mating ritual” shit where they had to have all the initiative all the time and I…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/03/25 08:40 PM
3

I’m right there with you. I’m bi and am generally only in a queer dating environment at this point, so it’s possible this is just a straight woman thing I can’t understand 🤷🏻
/r/PurplePillDebate08/03/25 02:18 AM
15

Yeah, adding to what you’ve said I think Contra’s Twilight video has some very useful hypotheses on women’s CNC kinks (and related erotica that contains elements of it but shies away from acknowledging it). I think part of it is also just how endemic fear of rape is for women. You’re taught that fear from very early childhood, it is a constant stressor. This is not just “because feminism,” traditional conservatism also teaches women they need patriarchs as protectors because otherwise the bad me…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/03/25 11:20 PM
1

Oh totally. Like if I’m making an argument to other feminists I’ll include the jargon and immediately define it, because for better or worse the jargon is cred - it lets them know I am familiar with the topics and am coming from a feminist perspective. Which is really helpful if I’m critiquing their position, otherwise you get the kneejerk assumption that you’re anti-feminist, sigh. But in most other conversations? I’ll just say what I mean. If the thing I describe connects with the person I’m t…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/02/25 09:47 PM
1

Hey, I think you’ve explained the issue here very well. I talk about this issue quite a bit and it actually gets a lot of play in black and queer feminist circles, there has been a fair amount written on it especially re: white woman tears as a weaponization of the status of whiteness and womanhood over POC. But that doesn’t often make it into to general pop feminist discourse. Which is very frustrating because there is an obvious feminist lens to understand and critique women not seeing themsel…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/02/25 10:30 PM
1

I think part of the issue in communication is how these categories are defined differently by different groups. Outside of erotica (which is meant to be a fantasy, a way to enjoy a certain experience from a distance and divorced from the negative consequences of said fantasy), I don’t honestly see many women claiming a desire for or pursuing “bad boys.” They exist, the “I can fix him” women are out there. But I think the prevalence of the desire for a bad boys is overstated. I would ask what mak…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/02/25 09:31 PM
4

Good point. And what constitutes “loving” bad boys? I’ve seen people conflate fantasy and real world relationship aspirations way too often here. What one likes in fictional characters, erotica, or BDSM bedroom dynamics does not generally translate to who they like or want as a person. Just like a lot of guys might consume porn that doesn’t depict a persona they would want to hang out with day to day. The appeal of these fantasy scenarios with fictional or selectively performed bad boys is that …
/r/PurplePillDebate15/02/25 12:50 AM
12

It’s totally possible to feel more betrayed by and resentful of your mother for bringing a man like that into your life and not protecting you from him. Parents have a greater duty of care, it’s not wrong for him to also see his mother in a negative light for her decisions that greatly negatively impacted him. He seems to be recognizing that this primed him for hateful ideas about women, and since he’s here and talking about it, it seems he doesn’t want to hold onto those. I don’t understand the…
/r/ExRedPill09/02/25 11:36 PM
3

Thank you for sharing. This is part of why I see internalized misogyny and toxic masculinity as functionally the same process. It’s the internal reinforcement of patriarchal gender expectations that first harms the person with these things but usually spills over into harming others, particularly those of the same gender. The harms against women are more obvious in many ways and we tend to default to sympathy to a woman with severe internalized misogyny, even if she is harming many other women, …
/r/ExRedPill12/01/25 11:32 PM
0

Honestly, without knowing you there’s only so much advice, but this is something that you could troubleshoot in places like r/bropill or even r/incelexit (even if you aren’t an incel, the fixation on grievances like the one you shared is a common struggle and they are generally good at giving advice for that). I think you should absolutely also troubleshoot it in therapy, that would almost certainly be the best place to do so. If you have friends who can be honest with you, who you feel comforta…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/25 10:00 PM
1

Thank you! And we see this all the time, as a field previously made up of mostly women becomes more prestigious or lucrative, it will become a men’s field (eg programming). If a lot of women join a field previously done mostly by men (like education or psychology) it becomes less prestigious, less lucrative, and often the target of the culture wars. I’ll have to think longer on the point of them already having lost their social respect and power and influence, because that could be both the caus…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/01/25 12:19 AM
2

No problem lol, and I get it. Once in a while I’ll see a good comment, a nice exchange, or something that makes me really think that I may not have considered. It’s frankly rare, but that stuff keeps me from throwing my hands up and leaving lol. I don’t want to cede a space with the potential to be useful to those who scream loudest (even if I often empathize with the screaming lol).
/r/PurplePillDebate31/12/24 10:38 PM
8

This is kind of the issue with causes and tribalism, and it’s not exclusive to feminism. There are lots of feminists who fail to live up to their own values. But most people with a value system also fail to live up to it. Cruelty and hypocrisy should be criticized, I’m not saying we simply accept that a certain percentage of feminists suck. But saying this is uniquely an issue with feminism (which many on this sub will say) shows a kind of blindness to all other issues and social dynamics. I spe…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/12/24 10:23 PM
1

The gender essentialist ideas that men are dangerous and that women need protecting are patriarchal. Those ideas involve an assumption of men being inherently threatening and violent, whether in a predatory sense or as the protector who fends the predator off. Seeing men through this narrow lens comes directly from patriarchy, and it is the uncritical adoption of this framework by some feminists that I’d challenge. Also, it seems like you sew feminism as something of a monolith. Feminists of dif…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/24 12:46 AM
1

It is unfortunately true that many women are not taught that they can be the unsafe one. When we talk about gender and safety/victimhood as a binary we end up treating one gender as defacto safe and the other as inherently dangerous. This is bad for everyone and gender essentialist. We need to teach all people to respect consent and that their consent is worth respecting. Tbf in most feminist spaces I’m in (online and irl) this is agreed upon. But there are some feminists who buy into the same g…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/24 12:00 AM
1

Of all the explanations here, I think yours may capture a bigger part of the reason than the others. For time immemorial women have been told that getting married (to a man) was not only good and proper but necessary for survival - and it was. Things have shifted a lot to normalize actually seeking relationships on your own terms as a woman (largely related to religion having less of a hold over society and the gains feminism made to allow women meaningful economic opportunities), but our messag…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/24 07:07 PM
7

Frankly, I see a lot of people in general with a “don’t approach me, don’t engage me, don’t acknowledge me” mentality. I think some of that is generational and a large amount is due to how atomized our society is. We have forgotten how to exist in the public commons together, both in gracefully removing ourselves from a conversation and starting one. A lot of this is also from women who are only approached by guys who will not leave them alone if they politely say they’re busy or not interested …
/r/PurplePillDebate25/12/24 07:53 PM
1

I think everyone picks and chooses who they’re afraid of, but white supremacy is especially effective at building and weaponizing the fear of white women. The patriarchal role for men of “protecting the women and children” is generally used to weaponize (generally white, cis/het) women’s discomfort from being around POC and queer people just existing. The women are taught that those groups are dangerous and so experience more fear around black men than around white men. Even when the white men i…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/24 09:23 PM
7

I think the other (or additional) option to taming the evil shithead is just wanting to read kinky erotica. Enjoying that type of thing in one’s fantasies, content, or with safewords in the bedroom does not mean people want someone who is actually like that all the time lol. It’s also okay to not resolve the problematic elements and enjoy the work as pure indulgent fantasy. There is this impulse to tame the beast with one’s womanly virtues, but that to me feels a bit weird (in a lowkey patriarch…
/r/ExRedPill18/12/24 07:40 PM
1

As you’re figuring out how to go outside, consider going on r/bropill, just for the variety. People wanting marriage and kids still make up the vast majority, including among feminist/progressive types. If anything some groups just wait longer to do that to provide the best support system for each other and their kids. At this point there has been a lot of analysis and research into what redpillers actually stand for, yet they position themselves as owning many of the things most people of any p…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/12/24 11:52 AM
2

Truly. We have to approach these things as society wide issues and stop the “men/women just do it to themselves” bullshit, no matter who it’s aimed at. It’s not helpful, it brings us no closer to addressing the issues, and it is a form of victim blaming. We all contribute to the normalization of these expectations. We all have unconscious biases, even about our own gender. There is stuff we can do about that but shouting “not me, only men/women are causing this problem” is a complete failure to …
/r/PurplePillDebate05/12/24 08:48 PM
2

Agreed. I think the point they’re making is that small penis shaming isn’t something feminists started and they are far from the sole perpetrators of it. Feminists who shame dick size should be told that it’s not cool, just as we’ve told people that the other examples you shared are not cool and are actually harmful. But so should everyone else who shames penis size, feminist or not. If anything the feminists I’m around are much more likely to be critical of someone shaming small dicks - like op…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/11/24 07:52 PM
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I will say radfems aren’t the only group that has a knee-jerk reaction to the term itself. When “women are choosing not to date” is called inherently misandrist a lot of folks (feminist and not) are going to essentially treat misandry as a boy who called wolf situation. So I try to be specific in applying it, or not say misogyny or misandry and just talk about bias and harm. I think you could frame some harms men face as systemic, but I don’t necessarily think it’s helpful to get bogged down in …
/r/PurplePillDebate23/11/24 06:03 AM
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And I know many feminists who would disagree. Advocacy for women is just one part of their feminism. A large part certainly, but not the totality. It seems you are operating off of an older definition, which is fair, but it’s not really any of our place to claim that our feminist framework is the right one and that other feminists simply don’t understand our one true “correct” feminism and therefore are doing feminism wrong by including other elements. The basis for the understandings of patriar…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/11/24 12:19 AM
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Thank you! I see your comments here a lot and appreciate how you work to facilitate a real dialogue. I generally try to do the same, but sometimes I encounter egregiously bad takes from other feminists that I have to push back on (as I have on this thread several times already 😅) just so that their preferred definitions and perspectives don’t get mistaken for all of feminism. There are lots of different feminist frameworks that often disagree with each other even on basic definitions. I kind of …
/r/PurplePillDebate23/11/24 12:03 AM
–

I appreciate you calling out the no true scotsman issue. Her idea of feminism would make every feminist I know not a “real” feminist. Largely because we aren’t down with the gender/bio-essentialism she demonstrates in her response to this comment and see the purpose of feminism as combating all gender-based harm, that patriarchy as a system of gender-based control, enforcing gender norms on all people, cannot be dismantled by focusing on only half its impacts. There are many “feminisms” and half…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/11/24 11:56 PM
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I would say you’re reducing many different schools of feminist thought, which often don’t even share definitions on patriarchy or the purpose of feminism, down to one “true” feminism. Many feminists see the purpose of feminism as reducing and eradicating gender-based harm. Some of us would argue you cannot free women from this harm without addressing the system of gender based control that creates it, which also enforces gender upon men (and the rest of us who are not simply men or women). Not t…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/11/24 11:28 PM
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Yeah, I would take issue with describing either radfems today or the original Radical Feminists as “more feminist” than other feminist schools of thought. For instance the radfem movement (at least today and online) had adopted a level of gender essentialism and a reductionist idea of patriarchy that is antithetical to much of my own feminism (informed by intersectional, queer, black, and gender abolitionist feminism). I think there is a lot of utility in the conversations the original Radical F…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/11/24 11:19 PM
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Just from the perspective of another feminist (mostly influenced by intersectional, queer, gender abolitionist, and socialist feminism), the online radfem movement is often problematic in it’s gender essentialism and failure to account for intersectionality with broad generalizations. I think the de-centering men elements of the original Radical Feminist movement is useful, I think many of the conversations these feminists started are important, even though I often derive different conclusions. …
/r/PurplePillDebate22/11/24 11:10 PM
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Eh, I think what they described radfems believing is true of feminists generally (re: concern for men and their problems). It’s often that modern radfems took the least useful parts of the original Radical Feminist movement (which started some important conversations, even if you disagree with their conclusions) and built a feminism around that. The main complaints I have (as an intersectional, queer, gender abolitionist feminist) is about how unproductive some of the discussions in radfem space…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/11/24 10:27 PM
1

The issue most had with MRA is that many of the loudest voices were advocating for restricting women’s rights or just generally extremely misogynistic. Or only talking about men’s issues as a way to shut down conversation about women’s issues. It’s unfortunate because there were plenty of important and valid issues raised, but it got a terrible rap online. (Similar to how many see the worst feminist takes, that the algorithm raises due to getting the most engagement positive and negative, and as…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/11/24 12:23 AM
0

Feminists do not have complete control over society. If they did we would not be seeing women’s rights stripped. Rights that are also important to men, as bodily autonomy and medical privacy are important to all people. But abortion bans obviously target women (and anyone else who can become pregnant). The portions of the population who see guys as losers for both fulfilling gender roles are generally not feminists. Some feminists still have backwards ideas, I wouldn’t ever claim all feminists a…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/11/24 11:35 PM
1

A substantial part of feminist discourse is and has always been a critique of other feminists. You are acting as if there is one, singular unified feminism. There never has been, that’s why radfems, libfems, intersectional feminists, black/queer/etc feminists, etc all have different frameworks and definitions. Ask ten feminists and you’ll get a dozen different definitions of patriarchy. The most unifying things feminists share is concern with basic rights being taken away by the state. Or states…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/11/24 10:59 PM
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I may be more hopeful than you about the outlook, but I don’t want to discount your experience or understanding of your own desire either. If you’ll forgive me my potentially rose tinted glasses, I think a lot of people discount how attraction can grow from emotional closeness, that someone who didn’t make you stop and look could become part of your life in a meaningful way and you could find yourself growing attracted to them. “Could” being the operative word, there is absolutely no guarantee. …
/r/PurplePillDebate21/11/24 03:55 AM
1

Absolutely true, just kind of expanding what you said. I would describe patriarchy as a system of social control through which gender is policed and enforced by everyone (men/women/etc), often through coercion, promises of petty rewards (generally undelivered or marginal compared to harms), and violence targeting everyone (men/women/etc). The expectations are different, but the punishments for deviation are honestly more similar than we generally consider. Violence, SA, and the threat of these t…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/11/24 07:31 PM
4

And that’s the fair way to do it if you are going to try for a single earner SAHP set up. Unfortunately many guys here are against that by default and think SAHMs should be destitute if the relationship ends and not be allowed alimony. Or even child support if they are still the one solely taking care of the kids. I don’t think you don’t believe in your proposal sincerely, but it might be worth advocating for other guys who want their partners to be SAHMs to join your position. And to answer you…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/11/24 06:26 AM
5

I think the other reply is right on honestly. Exploring how the relationship your parents modeled to you has impacted your idea of relationships, on your own or especially in therapy, could be extremely helpful. I came from a deeply unhealthy household, I wanted my parents to get divorced since early childhood since even though they loved each other, they were extremely toxic and abusive towards each other. I’ve worked for a long time to disentangle how this has impacted my views and behaviors, …
/r/ExRedPill12/11/24 05:13 PM
6

You will have even less ability to tell if a man is like this if you skip out on dating. Idk your reasons for wanting to go straight to the most serious commitment possible, but you can date without having sex, date without moving in. Imo moving in with someone before making that commitment is important, in general to tell if you can work together to address the basic struggles in life, but also because living with someone is a lot more likely to reveal any terrible ideas they have. It’s not har…
/r/ExRedPill12/11/24 04:47 PM
1

I’s be happy to. And just because I realize my phrasing may have implied I feel this way: I am not no true scotsmanning feminists lol. I obviously have frustrations with how many online conversations have deteriorated to this point (in no small part due to the hostility and harassment that feminist online spaces face that simply isn’t in good faith), but I wouldn’t say people with these views are not feminists. I may disagree on core concepts, but I don’t own the term either lol. Sometimes it’s …
/r/PurplePillDebate25/10/24 04:47 PM
1

Just because the other commenter is playing fast and loose with definitions, I want to clarify: The statement you shared is a neutral statement and doesn’t indicate anything. Saying it’s not fine for women to do that would be a weird statement. Although, sometimes statements like that are made in contexts in which it is clear they are stating that women should do that, but the statement on its own is neutral. Benevolent sexism would be something like “women make better homemakers” or a claim tha…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/10/24 03:35 AM
2

Idk, I think some of this is the same motivations but the expectation that women must have “virtuous” reasons for their stances. In the end it’s still a violent form of misogyny to prioritize an unborn fetus over a woman. The results are exactly the same. I just don’t know how much it matters how people justify this to themselves. These women are equally unswayed by the suffering of other women, attributing their politics to some warped idea of compassion for a fetus just seems to be perpetuatin…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/10/24 03:06 AM
–

I don’t disagree that the numbers don’t add up as the previous commenter said, but I do think drawing a line between “real” rape and being made to penetrate is pretty shitty. Sexual violence is about power and having a reductive and patriarchal “the penetrator is empowered, the one being penetrated degraded” is really unhelpful for both having health views of sex and for diminishing the harms men who are raped experience. I think we’re getting better at surveying men who experience sexual violen…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/09/24 08:40 PM
8

I don’t think anyone’s arguing it’s a good to be traumatized in this way. It certainly isn’t fun. And I’d disagree slightly with the comparisons to cops because no one is born a cop or innately a cop, it is a choice of career, a career in which corruption and violence has long been normalized. But even though I don’t think it’s “right” to essentialize an entire group by the actions of few (or even many), I think it’s worth engaging with what is actually happening. Trauma isn’t rational. It doesn…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/24 08:57 AM
2

It genuinely makes so sad/mad here sometimes. I’m a queer feminist, but it seems like most online self proclaimed feminists have an entirely different concept they’re working off of. Irl I know a lot of feminists who are anti gender essentialism, view patriarchy as a system of control that is enforced upon both men and women (often with violence as a means of enforcement for both as well), and generally don’t have these incredibly sophomoric and shallow takes. Tbf I’m generally around other quee…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/09/24 04:47 AM
1

Love how we’re loved and admired until we speak lol. Somehow I didn’t expect them to make such an extreme about face on that (and demonstrate exactly why confronting queerphobia in women is so exhausting), but here we are 🤷🏻
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/24 09:34 PM
2

I mean that’s what I was referencing about how essentializing straightness is not good. Sometimes the content on there is more about heteronormativity as a system and the strange assumptions that come from it (much like patriarchy). Sometimes it’s kind of nit picky, ridiculous, or overreaches in it’s criticism. But I do think just like patriarchy and systemic white supremacy, heteronormativity is something we should all be interested in unpacking (whether we’re in the privileged class or not). I…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/24 09:29 PM
2

Queer people have to live in a heteronormative society in which what is going on between straight/cis people directly impacts us and our safety. We can’t simply keep our noses out of it as it haunts us every moment of our lives. I don’t support plenty of the nonsense that essentializes straightness. But we literally cannot avoid major shifts in hetero dynamics when we live in a world where cis/het is the assumed default. It is inescapable for us, of course we’re going to talk about the ways it i…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/24 09:15 PM
2

I’m also primarily responding to the essentialism of assuming women as a group are allies to queer people, as that is a much larger problem that leads to a lot of harm that we have to bear quietly, lest we make women uncomfortable by asking them to examine and confront their unconscious biases. Gender essentialism is harmful to women as well, even when it is used to paint women in a positive light or minimize the impacts of behaviors. It’s not feminist or empowering to regurgitate patriarchal ta…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/24 09:12 PM
3

You are making it about queer people by bringing us up to try to win an argument. You aren’t reminding them of their own homophobia, you’re perpetuating it. If it’s not about us stop using us as a ploy. It’s literally that simple.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/24 09:02 PM
2

Queer feminist here. This is ironically sexist and homophobic. You are ascribing the patriarchal idea that women are innately more virtuous, compassionate and less able to do harm simply because of their gender. Which is gender essentialist as well. Many women, including nominally progressive and feminist women, women who would call themselves “allies,” are deeply homo/biphobic to queer men. They see bi men as “less of a man” and think all bi men should be outed to any potential partner (and oft…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/24 08:38 PM
-1

I see so many stories from the other side of this equation in which women leave their countries and support systems for love and end up in abusive relationships with redpill men. Not to mention the racism that is usually involved, eg the “asian women are more submissive” shit that attracts passport bros (as opposed to just regular folks falling in love with someone from another country incidentally in their travels or from working elsewhere). Some of these women won’t have the resources to leave…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/24 07:18 PM
1

The pressure to accept is real. I’ve had guys get insecure and angry if I push the issue on paying for myself. I’ve also had guys (and other folks) gently express that they like spoiling the people they care about, friends, family, partners, regardless of gender. The former type I’m not going to go on another date with - I don’t have the energy to deal with that performative attitude of masculinity. I just hope they figure stuff out and if I know someone like that in a non-romantic context I mig…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/24 03:32 AM
6

Edit: just to be absolutely clear, when I talk about this being an issue in feminist circles, do not mistake me as claiming it is less of an issue outside of them. Anti-feminists and generally many “unaffiliated” or “egalitarian” folks are often worse. I am complaining about this as a feminist who is seeing in issue in my community. I see nominally progressive and feminist women do this shit more often because at this point in my life I’m around more progressive folks. My comment is in the anecd…
/r/ExRedPill10/07/24 08:42 PM
1

True, but this means we need to push to change that for men in all areas of life, not just hope they can find a woman to meet all of their emotional needs. That’s hard work and will likely take generations (and require confronting all of our gender based biases that punish men for seeking support in a healthy way) but it will never get better if we don’t fight for it. Women have built a sisterhood of support in response to living in a sexist and often dangerous society historically in which they…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/24 06:11 PM
1

Thank you, I’m glad that even if you didn’t agree with everything you seem to at least see I’m motivated by giving a shit about people and (in the ways I’ve come to understand) working towards something better. And that “feminist” is a broad movement/category with lots of internal factions and disagreements - that kind of the nature of any philosophy or social science, let alone activist movement 🤷🏻 To be perfectly honest, though I make plenty of my own criticisms of parts of feminism (which I s…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/06/24 04:40 PM
1

I’m not a man and I am a feminist lol, that’s part of why I have critiques of the way some corners conceptualize activism. To me part of bring a feminist involves exploring issues within my own movement and trying to actually identify why and how some of the communication breakdowns happen. I understand why feminists are tired, I have not lived a life free of misogyny lol. It’s valid to be tired and not want to be involved with certain types of activism, but it does get a bit exhausting when it …
/r/PurplePillDebate14/06/24 07:51 PM
3

I just share it in these spaces because it’s less likely folks will have come across it and I think it demonstrates that a feminist framework can absolutely be applied to men’s issues. But I can get the frustration over the stagnation and lack of action. I think it’s two part: A) conservatism primes people to reject feminist anything even if it’s applied to helping men and B) a lot of women who are nominally feminists are motivated by their own grievances and hold no space for the ones men deal …
/r/PurplePillDebate14/06/24 03:14 AM
1

Cheers!
/r/PurplePillDebate13/06/24 10:48 PM
4

I replied to the other poster with a lot more of my thoughts, but I figured I’d at least share with you: r/bropill is a good community to talk about and process this stuff and see examples of men being supportive with each other. If you’re open to literature on this, bell hooks’ “the will to change” talked about a lot of this stuff and the challenges of confronting it decades ago and is probably the most cited feminist when discussing men’s liberation (and the ways patriarchy controls and harms …
/r/PurplePillDebate13/06/24 10:16 PM
5

Thank you for sharing. This is something I often have trouble helping women understand, both that most men have little to no support outside of romantic partners and the devastating impact that has. To realize that you are falling into the same pattern that has failed you but not know how to stop is awful, it takes a lot of internal work be able to not only recognize but find a way to change behavior or moderate any gut “ick” response to men showing emotion, even if you actively want men and you…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/06/24 09:17 PM
2

Also, your local goth night. Goth is actually make a bit of a resurgence in most decently sized cities, where I am there are three major goth clubs (two are monthly, one is weekly) and a smattering of four other new regular goth events. The gender split is pretty good, lots of folks there are super welcoming and really care about the community (are happy to be talked to and may introduce you to others in the scene), and it’s overall a pretty accepting space because of it’s history as a sort of s…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/06/24 06:16 AM
–

It’s possible for someone to engage in hookup culture at one point in life and decide they don’t like it. A lot of women feel used after or otherwise have a bad time during hookups or sex on a first date and don’t learn that until they’ve experienced it. There are a lot of reasons one might feel this way, from how society slut shames them, to the guys they hooked up with being tools (it takes time to learn which guys are assholes, usually including some bad experiences), or just the way men ofte…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/05/24 08:41 PM
–

Egalitarianism doesn’t sufficiently address the issues of patriarchy (which as I may have stated here or elsewhere, is something we all contribute to and harms us all) and it’s root which is gender essentialism. Egalitarianism is a nice idea, but it is sort of the “I don’t see color” of gender - it just doesn’t engage with the material realities or implicit biases and narratives that have been enforced on us since birth and become a part of us. I prefer an egalitarian to an open misogynist of co…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/24 08:03 AM
–

Honestly fascinating in a sort of detached, academic way lol. I honestly feel lucky I don’t fall neatly into a gender binary or identify strongly with gender at all - makes it less personal and more interesting to explore the nuances as a lot of it has always felt somewhat alien to me. Especially the heteronormative bent these convos have, like I can’t imagine having the views on gender most people have and being straight. I can’t tell if the attraction happens in spite of the mutual contempt an…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/24 02:29 AM
–

Yeah, lost that faith pretty quick 😂 Kind of a fascinating place though. I’m used to hanging out in incelexit and exredpill (the fact that those guys are trying, even if it’s just for their own happiness and sanity is something I respect a lot) so these kinds of questions aren’t out of the norm for me to see (though the guys there are usually trying to be sincere and respectful, even if it comes out like… that). I’ll probably get tired of bad faith assholes, but I might engage here if there is s…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/24 02:23 AM
–

I was thoroughly disabused of my impression pretty quickly lmao. Thanks for the warning 😂 But I might poke around here anyway. I am used to the deadlocked shitty gender discourse already from basically every other part of reddit, at least this place is actually made for it.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/24 02:16 AM
–

Secular humanism, like feminism, is a philosophy and worth exploring. Philosophy is not a “pick one and never think again” exercise. It is the exploration of different frameworks to understand the world around you and your place in it. Academic feminism is just as rigorous as any other philosophical exploration and can be more or less useful depending on what you are looking at. I’m guessing science is being used here as a euphemism for gender/bio essentialism. Which is a belief system, not a fa…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/24 02:04 AM
–

Yup. I’m transmasc and have talked about man vs bear with every man I’m close to. A lot of them are feminists, so they understand the “why” (a lot of unprocessed trauma) and aren’t necessarily shocked. They’re mostly sad and emotionally exhausted from the constant reminders that they are seen as a threat in this gender essentialist way. I’ve been going through it emotionally myself, but I’m lucky to have supportive men around me who are also open to having vulnerable conversations, as well as wo…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/24 01:53 AM
–

This sub gets recommended to me when I’m on menslib and I wasn’t sure what to expect. Your comment gave me a lot of hope for how productive the conversations could be here, as most times gender and debate appear in the same sentence the entire argument and response is gender essentialism and willfully misunderstandings to support the ego and one’s own “side.” So many of our issues are not solely “men’s issues” or “women’s issues.” They are deeply intertwined and inseparable. The same sexism that…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/24 01:12 AM
2

This is not a wholistic explanation, but I want to comment on how the shape of our social spaces has changed. In the US and other highly car-centric countries we have functionally eradicated the “third place” - a place that is not work or the home, that doesn’t cost money to occupy where people can organically run into each other. This is how most people met both partners AND friends (and it is often through friends that people meet partners). The result has been a large scale atomization of our…
/r/ExRedPill01/11/23 10:17 PM
2

Ableism is unfortunately very commonly accepted, to the point many extremely prejudiced value statements are treated as unquestionable fact. I won’t lie, becoming disabled (physical health that eventually made it infeasible for me to work) hit me hard, especially the isolation that came with it. I hear you on that, and how disabilities can impact material aspects of our lives like income in very significant ways (depending on the disability of course). It is a real challenge to find a partner wh…
/r/ExRedPill29/09/23 05:48 AM
1

I didn’t assume you threatened her. But you can hurt someone or make them feel unsafe or just be plain toxic in multiple ways. I didn’t threaten anyone either, but if I felt cornered I’d lash out verbally (which is essentially what you were doing). Part of addressing my problems was going no contact abusive people who cornered me, who instigated a fight/flight response and made me feel afraid or vulnerable. But it was also my job to work on my coping skills because sometimes you can’t predict wh…
/r/ExRedPill14/09/23 06:17 AM
1

When you recognize you have (even unintentionally) made others feel unsafe it’s a moral/ethical imperative to seek professional help on managing future situations. It’s part of why I committed to therapy - my PTSD/BPD made me unstable and I would at times lose my shit and just scream at people I was close to if my trauma was triggered. Therapy taught me how to identify and avoid retraumatizing environments (abusive people for the most part on top of environments where I feel physically trapped) …
/r/ExRedPill14/09/23 03:09 AM
1

I know you’ve said you’ve tried therapy, but this right here is something that you should really bring into your sessions (or restart therapy for) to better understand and manage. I don’t like how in many circles of dating there is this game of who can play at being more disinterested, but “falling in love” and getting clingy on the first date indicates a huge issue too. You can’t fall in love with someone you don’t know, and one date is hardly getting the surface level understanding of someone.…
/r/ExRedPill13/09/23 09:42 PM
2

It’s a massive Madonna/who complex
/r/ExRedPill13/09/23 08:36 PM
4

The topic of female validation came up a while ago (it was what the poster thought they wanted most out of a relationship) but when we dug into it seemed more like male validation via attaining a woman’s attention that he really wanted. Because there is a difference between the need for support and trust and validation of our experiences that we all need in a partner and attaining a partner/date for the purpose of proving to yourself and other men that you are “doing it right,” are succeeding al…
/r/ExRedPill13/09/23 07:54 PM
9

There are more women who are attracted to “gay” acting men out there than you’d think. The whole “metrosexual” thing was/is women expressing attraction towards such men. And even outside of that more specific preference just look at what is marketed as male attractiveness to women: it’s not the veiny, oiled up muscles that guys think make them attractive to women, it’s primarily cuteness, kindness, and funny. Most of the magazine covers for the “sexiest men alive” aimed at women show men present…
/r/ExRedPill10/09/23 05:25 PM
3

I think a part of this is that a lot of these guys either think or know they aren’t attractive by their own metrics, so they just dismiss attractive men as being lucky and having an unfair advantage. This is not entirely inaccurate (pretty privilege is a thing for men and women, though the impacts on men are grossly overstated by redpillers), so they look to average (or below average) men, who may not be aesthetically attractive, style/present themselves in an attractive way, lack charisma or ot…
/r/ExRedPill08/09/23 12:38 AM
9

Yes, their idea if dating is a game between men in which women are the ball (and that feminism tampered with the ball to make it less cooperative in their effort to beat the other men lol)
/r/ExRedPill08/09/23 12:02 AM
3

Thanks, saving for later!
/r/ExRedPill30/08/23 05:45 PM
11

Absolutely. The personal is political, full stop. And there is something very “convenient” about the redpill blowing up while more fascists openly talk about their plans and fascist talking points have bled into baseline conservative media. Fascism is defined by a collection of characteristics, but one of these traits seems more like the origin than others. That is sexual insecurity. Almost every damn thing they do can be linked to that. And the redpill is a perfect pipeline. That’s why you see …
/r/ExRedPill29/08/23 07:26 PM
7

Thank you. Yeah, I sometimes get that vibe. For the most part (with the occasional asshole who comes here to start shit) people here are trying and I think it’s more useful (and kinder) to try to meet people where they’re at. I only recently found this community but I’m really glad it exists. The redpill/blackpill represent a mass mental health crisis and conflict between the old demands and new expectations of what it mens to be a man. I’m AFAB but transmasculine and coming out showed me just a…
/r/ExRedPill27/08/23 08:27 PM
22

I think that the redpill and some traditional (often unhealthy) views of masculinity still common in society do teach men to see a woman’s interest in them as validation. But not personal validation, for all that man has experienced and done, but societal validation that he is fulfilling his role correctly. Ultimately this type of validation is more like general paternalistic approval; proof that you are succeeding as a man. It’s tangled up in ego, social pressure, and a often even ownership (es…
/r/ExRedPill27/08/23 07:57 AM
3

You already know what you need to do. Block him on everything. You don’t need to expose yourself to that trash. Don’t expect him to be logically consistent - fascism (which is highly interrelated with the RP) is famous for being ideologically inconsistent. Both are ideologies fundamentally built around sexual insecurity and a fascist or redpiller will always justify their exceptions to their own ideologies. It’s truly not worth engaging with as if they are rational perspectives. It’s all vibes t…
/r/ExRedPill21/08/23 06:01 AM
2

Do you think it’s safe to say this is more about him and the conflict between his RP shit and how you felt with/for him? Or do you also miss some aspects of that side of the RP? (It’s okay to acknowledge conflicted feelings, even if they are positive feelings about a bad thing. Understanding those feelings is part of moving on.)
/r/ExRedPill21/08/23 04:47 AM
4

The comment below this one in the thread, where you said you used to. And your post where you say you used to talk about him with your ex. People are reacting to those things, it may be helpful to add an edit to your post clarifying that you no longer do. It’s worded a little confusingly, but easy to fix. Do the RP ideas represent like intrusive thoughts or do you still have a grain of belief in them? If the former, what types of situations trigger those thoughts? If the latter, what ideas are y…
/r/ExRedPill21/08/23 04:24 AM
7

This is genuinely the answer. “Just love yourself” can feel like unhelpful advice even though it’s probably the best way to address a lot of challenges. I started out by adjusting my inner monologue, basically became my own hype man in my head. It’s one of those things you have to fake until you make it, it’ll feel unnatural especially if you’re down on yourself a lot. But vocalize to yourself even your small successes, step into a confident character who has your back and believes in you. It wi…
/r/ExRedPill19/08/23 02:43 AM
1

This is a fascinating question to me too. My background is spatial science, it would be interesting to look at the spatial distribution of different parts of the manosphere and see what socioeconomic factors correlate.
/r/ExRedPill18/08/23 12:25 AM
2

Beautifully said. No one wins in the Suffering Olympics, it just creates competition and resentment where there could be compassion and unity against the actual mechanisms of our oppression. “X group has it worse” is rhetorically weak, thought terminating in discussions, and alienating. I find it very frustrating that especially when men speak about the challenges that come with masculinity and their social role that some people will turn it around and say it’s not as bad as what women deal with…
/r/ExRedPill11/08/23 03:37 AM
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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