somethingrother Archive

Upvotes	Title	Category	Author	Subreddit	Date (UTC)
9	Question about believing alleged rape survivors		somethingrother	/r/MensRights	06/06/11 04:39 PM

Upvotes	Comment on	Subreddit	Date (UTC)
1	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! There's a lot of content here so I probably won't hit all the points. "I'd like for feminist jurisprudence to stop concentrating on how violated and ashamed and diminished victims feel by lowering burdens of proof and providing even more protection, because those measures only reinforce that rape is the worst thing that can ever happen to a woman, and women internalize that message. " What do you mean by more protection? I understand the shield laws for survivors who would, for some reason or an…	/r/MensRights	11/06/11 01:52 PM
1	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! You would likely not get a conviction with no DNA evidence. If the defense is able to convince the jury that the second occasion was consensual, there would be no conviction. Convictions of innocent people happen, but they are rare. I fail to see how asking someone if they consent to sex would not prevent assault---it is good practice to make sure your partner is up to sex. I really hope you communicate with your partners, especially if you're doing new shit you haven't done with them before so …	/r/MensRights	11/06/11 01:41 PM
2	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! I agree. Many of the people I work with are survivors and feel the need to help others who experience assault. I don't think that the group I work with portrays shame and devaluation as the only right reaction, we discuss common reactions sure, but again the idea is that all assaults are different. Can you direct me to the kind of inaccurate portrayal you see from the anti-rape movement? I'd like to bring it up to a meeting about body shame and assault. The weird cultural assumptions we have abo…	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 10:54 PM
1	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! Sex education can only be a good thing here.	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 10:44 PM
0	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! What a fucked up mess. Though I really do not think anyone would bring a case to court involving being kissed in their sleep by their partner---I'll read the case to try to see if they've established some type of guidelines to which behaviors are ok and aren't ok. If you have it agreed with your partner that you can give him head, or he can have sex with you while you're asleep (am I reading that right?) then that's ok with me if you've communicated consent beforehand...but this should not apply…	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 09:07 PM
-2	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! So in the first, she said no, you didn't have sex (right?) why would you go to jail? There would be no evidence of assault. The second is a false accusation. False accusations do happen, but not as often as real accusations; hopefully you'd have a good enough lawyer and system that sensibly investigated those allegations and avoid prison. My point is that asking for consent is clearly worth avoiding assaulting someone. I don't care if it's awkward or a boner-killer, it's worth it.	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 08:52 PM
1	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! Who the fuck runs through "the ghetto" naked?	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 08:40 PM
2	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! You should talk to more men and women involved in advocacy work, both for victims and for rehabilitation of convicted criminals. We talk all the time about how to safety plan with people without implying blame or fault. We also support the idea that all survivors are different, each rape is different. If you are okay, and didn't feel ashamed, that's wonderful, I'm so happy you are ok, but other men and women may have different experiences---and their experiences are just as right and just as you…	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 08:38 PM
2	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! I sincerely hope you are never called to serve on a jury involved with a rape trial.	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 08:00 PM
1	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! lol	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 07:46 PM
-1	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! What's worse: raping somebody because you didn't ask, or asking and looking strange/not getting laid?	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 07:45 PM
1	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! "Passing out drunk in unsafe places might as well be asking for it." This is wrong. This is what I mean by the line between general safety advice and victim-blaming.	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 07:39 PM
-2	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! If they are consenting, I've got no problem with just laying there. Again, ignorance that you are committing a crime doesn't excuse you from the consequences of that crime. Please read my other responses vis a vis men and women and consent. Rape is not accidentally keeping somebody's car when they revoked permission to use it. Linky for the Canada thing. Also, I'm ok with the government telling people not to have sex with a nonconsenting person. It's ok for these things, but you consent beforeha…	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 07:38 PM
2	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! I sat in on the police interview. So yes, people do blame victims for not resisting or screaming even if there's a gun. Screaming is great if you can do it, if you can't you should not blame yourself, nor should others. What I try to do is reduce shame, but let the survivor lead the conversation. If they're angry, I say "You have every right to be angry," if they're ashamed, I say "It wasn't your fault," if they say "I am actually ok right now," I say "That's good, in case you need someone to ta…	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 07:31 PM
1	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! I'm saying the victim sometimes has no control over the situation. The only person who has control over the rape is the rapist.	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 07:24 PM
-1	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! It's a question I honestly have. How low-cut is too low-cut? How short is too short? For real though, not just trying to catch people in a web of gotcha! I just don't think people should have to follow long lists of what to do in order to avoid assault. I think that giving general advice on safety, in a way that makes clear there's no fault on the person if something goes wrong, is ok.	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 07:21 PM
1	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! Again, you have missed what I've been saying. If you are having sex, whether you are a male or female, YOU need to make sure that your partner is consenting. It's up to any sexually active person to make sure they're not harming anybody. Funny rape jokes are pretty rare btw.	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 07:16 PM
-1	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! If they were going to have sex with you, and you asked, they aren't going to suddenly change their mind. And there was one instance where the person said it was the victim's fault, not paraphrasing. My point is that people need to be extra careful when we're talking about precautions so it doesn't turn into victim-blaming.	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 07:14 PM
1	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! Well if it's Glamour Magazine.... I wish we could just gather all objective good studies and have discussions on those without having to explain over and over which studies are inaccurate because of methodology concerns. And I think it's possible to be raped and claim you weren't---if that gets the person through the day, that's fine.	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 07:04 PM
-1	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! Pretty sure victims aren't saying "hey, c'mere rapist!" Just terrible.	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 06:59 PM
-1	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! I've said it before, making sure you are with a consenting partner is for women and men. I am very careful about including everyone because men are raped, and they aren't taken seriously because of stupid stereotypes and cultural assumptions. If your partner looks like they're in pain, you want to switch it up with a new activity, they are just laying there, it is SO important to ask---this does not make it less sexy. I would rather ask and make sure than cause harm. Your third paragraph is depr…	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 06:56 PM
-3	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! Anyone who has sex with a person who cannot consent is a rapist. I think I mentioned before, if I bone a drunk man, who is so drunk he cannot consent, I would be a rapist. If both people are knock-down intoxicated, I have no idea who the rapist is...this would be an interesting question to come at from different theoretical perspectives and deserves debate. I don't think we should automatically say it's the person doing the penetrating because I'm of the mind that rape isn't about penetration.	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 06:48 PM
1	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! I hope you have a healthy liver.	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 06:45 PM
0	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! In my experience, people usually just act like drunk sex isn't a big deal...I think most people are less likely to call sex rape if alcohol is involved. This is problematic. I think educating people (men and women) on how drunk is too drunk and all that is better than just brushing under the rug as too hard to deal with and argue about, because we've been there and we certainly didn't mean to hurt anyone. When you're drunk, you're still responsible for damage you do---if you crash your car or ro…	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 04:10 PM
-1	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! Also, sometimes I really do just want coffee. Maybe I'm behind the times or something. Also, I am not a guy, nor have I had a bunch of drunk sex, but how drunk do guys have to be before they can't get it up?	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 03:59 PM
0	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! Also, end the r-word.	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 03:57 PM
1	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! I don't know. I don't really like analogies about rape because I think they obscure some of the real meaty issues I'm worried about. I think getting your car stolen sucks; I hope your insurance company would pay for a replacement even if you did forget to lock the door. What do you think?	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 03:56 PM
3	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! Where is this stat from? I've always heard 1 in 6 is a victim of attempted or completed rape, but I've seen the 1 in 4 and wondered what survey/study it was from.	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 03:51 PM
4	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! Agreed.	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 03:48 PM
5	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! This makes me sad.	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 03:47 PM
2	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! *You're	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 03:46 PM
6	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! This is victim-blaming fyi. Other people are kind of approaching the situation as a general safety issue, but this is pretty blatant.	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 03:41 PM
4	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! "It just means shes stupid and shouldn't expect any sympathy." Bad things happen to everyone. If somebody was mugged at night, when they were by themselves, I would still feel sympathy. She's not stupid, she was unlucky enough to be the most vulnerable person around a rapist.	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 03:38 PM
4	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! I really do see what you're saying. And I understand that we can tell people "this is how you can be less vulnerable to rapists who target vulnerable people." But I see people move directly from giving advice, to blaming people who've been assaulted ("oh, she was wearing a short skirt...well then duh,"). It seems like people try to find something a victim has done that would explain why they were raped---this is maybe due to wanting to live in a just world where things happen for a reason. If yo…	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 03:36 PM
3	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! I agree that people looking fine are going to get flirted with more. However, I think the culture needs to change, where we emphasize enthusiastic consent so people aren't unknowingly raping somebody else. What we're talking about is a minority of cases, in which two drunk people are interested in sex. Drunk sex is fine if partners are able to consent. People often seem to think that feminists mean that if you've had any alcohol at all that you cannot consent---this is completely untrue. How dru…	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 03:31 PM
1	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! So do you tell people who have been assaulted that that's why they've been assaulted? She was drunk, her friends had left, some guy targets her, and if she had just made the right decisions, she wouldn't have been raped? He would have just targeted someone else. We can't all not be drunk and with friends all the time.	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 03:20 PM
-2	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! Ok. Explain to me how people are able to hold the idea that women aren't to blame for being assaulted, but that if they are assaulted they may have prevented it?	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 03:18 PM
3	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! So if a person didn't follow this rule, what would you tell them? If you were on a jury, would you hold them partly to blame? I think there's a conversation to be had about general safety and one that happens after people are assaulted.	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 03:16 PM
3	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! A woman was raped, by a couple of guys. She starts talking about the situation and how she didn't want to have sex and the police investigator asks her "well why didn't you fight back?" They had a gun. "Well but why didn't you scream?" Some people have the option to deter their rapist. Some don't. That's what I mean.	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 03:15 PM
5	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! Rape victims do not have control over whether somebody decides to rape them or not. Rapists target vulnerable people, and they may or may not be vulnerable---to that extent they have some control. But are you going to tell an old person, a man in prison, a child, a mentally disabled person that they should stop being old/in prison/young/mentally disabled to avoid being raped? No. When you start to give women a long list of things they need to do to avoid being raped, you place the onus on them t…	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 03:11 PM
0	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! Look, how do I dress up to attract attention for consensual sex while letting people know that I don't want to be raped? Can we just tell people that they need to ask their partner if they want to have sex and stop telling women they need to do (x) and stop doing (y)? Rapists don't rape somebody cause they're wearing a short skirt, they are not people who are so sex-starved that a women wearing a skirt is like a steak that they absolutely cannot resist. I think telling all people to be careful w…	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 03:07 PM
5	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! Yes they are, but everyone is different. Some people freeze up, some people just try to live through it...they have no control over the situation. Implying that they do implies that they should have done more to avoid getting raped.	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 03:01 PM
-6	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! Flirting does not give tacit approval for sex. Just ask your partner is they want to have sex, they're not going to change their mind just cause you ask. It's ok to tell people not to get blackout drunk, or to be careful because rapists target drunk and vulnerable people, but it so often gets said AFTER someone's been assaulted and that survivor is left feeling like shit. Anyway, prevention = ok, victim-blaming = not ok. They can sound similar, but it's all about the framing and how you phrase i…	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 02:49 PM
-11	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! But people are raped at home too, or in prison, what's your suggestion for these people? Also, do all women need to avoid getting drunk all the time? Would you tell a girl who had been drunk and was assaulted that she was culpable for her assault?	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 02:46 PM
-1	As a man, this is how I demonstrate the insanity of ‘blaming’ and ‘slut shaming’ rape victims! "A rape victim has a hell of a lot more control over the situation then any other person besides the rapist." No.	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 02:42 PM
1	From 2xc...."You did it to yourselves!!" I'm so sorry to hear you were abused. I hear what you are saying. Though I disagree that rape is always about getting sex. There's times when it's not. I think ultimately, you can have a dialogue about what to do to make yourself less vulnerable, but it can easily devolve into "follow this list of rules, or you're partly to blame." This is clearly not what you think, which is reassuring. I work with an advocacy group, and we talk about how to discuss this type of thing in outreach efforts---how …	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 04:47 AM
1	From 2xc...."You did it to yourselves!!" They got upset because he said that women wearing "provocative clothing" are more likely to be raped. This implies that if you don't wear provocative clothing, you are less likely to be raped. It's not true. I've encountered plenty of women who were wearing normal clothes, clothes that might be deemed "provocative" but were less provocative than others, men who were raped and they weren't raped because of what they were wearing. When a survivor hears that they are responsible for being targeted,…	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 04:15 AM
1	From 2xc...."You did it to yourselves!!" Why would they want to prevent women from making responsible choices?	/r/MensRights	10/06/11 03:25 AM
1	Question about believing alleged rape survivors I mean, finding resources for people who need them, not calling to be disproved. I know of a couple shelters in my area that provide vouchers for men to get to a hotel, and I think one allows them to stay. This is what I mean by calling. I think you need to work with the structures that exist in order to make sure people's needs are being taken care of. Calling a shelter and telling them there's a need is a good way to make a change. For example, one the growing concerns is DV among gay couples,…	/r/MensRights	08/06/11 09:05 PM
1	From 2xc...."You did it to yourselves!!" I think there's a good way to debate about ways to make ourselves less vulnerable to predators, and ways that just devolve---I get that you're saying people can be more careful but again, the way it's framed is important, to make sure we're not letting victims hear shit like "if you hadn't been (x), you wouldn't have gotten yourself raped." (And I totally get that this is NOT what you are saying, you're saying "be careful") Also, I agree that feminism sometimes has trouble honestly debating issu…	/r/MensRights	08/06/11 08:37 PM
1	Question about believing alleged rape survivors I think they're framing the debate because they're a feminist thread. I think there needs to be an honest debate about female-on-male, female-on-female, and male-on-male DV, but I don't think the feminism reddit thread is the end-all-be-all of feminism. I would encourage calling local shelters and the like and seeing what they do for male victims---but asking respectfully and not in a "gotcha, you hate men," type of way. If they don't provide options for males, this is something that deserves mo…	/r/MensRights	08/06/11 08:31 PM
1	From 2xc...."You did it to yourselves!!" it would be nice if single guys were able to adopt if they want kids. pretty sure adoption laws don't allow many single adoptions (especially to guys), but they should.	/r/MensRights	08/06/11 04:03 PM
2	From 2xc...."You did it to yourselves!!" "deserve" does not equal "should expect" I know they're similar, but I didn't mean deserve. I agree the term victim-blaming should apply anytime we're telling someone they're culpable for their own abuse/assault/oppression/whatever someone else did to them. The term then should be used in cases when the person who's been assaulted or harmed is asked why they didn't fight back, why they were high, why they were wearing what they were wearing, if they've previously had sex with the person etc. (ap…	/r/MensRights	08/06/11 04:00 PM
2	From 2xc...."You did it to yourselves!!" Yeah I get what you're saying. My point is that how you phrase that thought matters (ie. "Hey you drunken sluts should expect to get raped" vs. "Rapists target drunk people, so be careful,")	/r/MensRights	08/06/11 03:31 PM
3	Pregnant is not beautiful. Why? Because men decide what is beautiful in women. Not women. wait, what about lesbians?	/r/MensRights	08/06/11 05:08 AM
2	From 2xc...."You did it to yourselves!!" Question: wouldn't a slut be more likely to consent to sex anyway and thus be less likely to be raped? If we're using the definition of slut = promiscuous. Also, there's a difference between saying "Hey, rapists look for vulnerable people, including the mentally disabled, young people, old people, men who feel like they can't report, very drunk and high people etc. so just be aware," vs. "don't get drunk or you will get raped. If you got drunk, it's your fault someone assaulted you." The first I…	/r/MensRights	08/06/11 04:52 AM
1	Behind the mask of masculinity. - Why do feminists get to define what is or isn't masculine? I think that sometimes people value some biological differences over other ones, and that feminists have a problem with valuing "masculinity" over "femininity" or vice versa, or the idea that women can't have masculine traits and men can't have feminine traits.	/r/MensRights	07/06/11 09:57 PM
1	Question about believing alleged rape survivors Yeah, reading that comment over, I should have qualified what I meant more, it comes off sounding like I'm siding with the helpline who hung up over him. What I meant was this: sometimes, people call helplines for inappropriate reasons. It is critical to always assume the person calling needs help. He should not have been treated like a suspect. Likewise, when helpline people make honest mistakes (which is not the case in this circumstance), they need to not beat themselves up about it, but rath…	/r/MensRights	07/06/11 09:39 PM
1	Question about believing alleged rape survivors Also, I have some friends who work the helpline, and while we really want to ensure we're helping people, we've had one caller in the past who used to call and say he was raped and then masturbate while asking the advocate if he or she had been raped and what it felt like. I'm not saying the person on the line that hung up with the male survivor was in the clear, but I can see how someone might make a mistake. If they did hang up because he was a male, that's terrible and they need to be held ac…	/r/MensRights	07/06/11 09:03 PM
1	Question about believing alleged rape survivors Again, I personally do not think anyone deserves a pass on being abusive. If you hit someone in self-defense, that's ok. If your partner comes at you, and you think they are going to harm you, you can use whatever means to protect yourself. However, outside of this context, if you hit someone or abuse someone, you are entirely responsible for your actions and it doesn't matter if you were abused before. I think in therapy, you address past problems (ie. rehab for abusers) but in the criminal cou…	/r/MensRights	07/06/11 08:53 PM
1	Question about believing alleged rape survivors I know that being abused is sometimes a factor in abusing others, BUT, people are abused and never show signs of abusing others---it is NEVER alright to abuse anyone. I don't care the reason, whether you are male or female, you cannot abuse other people. I know you aren't saying that being abusive is ok, but I interpreted what you said as venturing near that line of justifying abuse ("he/she was abused and that's why we should be lenient,"). I see what you're saying about leadership, but I feel …	/r/MensRights	07/06/11 08:09 PM
1	Question about believing alleged rape survivors I like Dr. Lisak, you don't: agree to disagree. I think you have some good points about expanding our definition of who rape and abuse victims/survivors are. I'd just like to say, the advocacy group I work with, which includes many self-identified feminists, is both similar and different from your perception of feminists. One of the criminal law advocates we have does, as a personal preference and due to her experience with the system, tell accusers that the defense lawyers will likely look into…	/r/MensRights	07/06/11 07:07 PM
1	Question about believing alleged rape survivors I'm sorry I misinterpreted what you said. However, by the statistic you cited earlier, less than half of all rape claims are likely false, also, you are conflating false allegations with conviction rates of those falsely accused of rape. The FBI case studies you sent me were disturbing; I did not particularly want to read some pretty horrific accounts of rape. I've seen other sources that cite that the FBI, in their general data, not just a report on specific case studies involving DNA testing, …	/r/MensRights	07/06/11 04:23 PM
1	Question about believing alleged rape survivors The Innocence Project is a great thing. But, in the interests of understanding where you're coming from, can you please link the studies that show that stats you're mentioning, or the exact page from Innocence Project showing those numbers (ie. your contention more people convicted of rape are actually innocent than are guilty).	/r/MensRights	07/06/11 01:46 PM
2	Question about believing alleged rape survivors The thing is, in order to charge someone there has to be a police report. And the police usually wait for the rape kit or some evidence to arrest. So, once it gets to trial, there's usually something that means a trial should happen and that a jury needs to make a decision based on available evidence. I think if we're going to assume everyone innocent until it's proven that they're guilty, then both names deserve to be hidden. I can see problems with letting the media know about either (especial…	/r/MensRights	06/06/11 11:37 PM
2	Question about believing alleged rape survivors So accuser and accused then rather than victim and culprit or some such. Ok, I think I understand where you're coming from. Know that I use the terms I use from familiarity as an advocate, not as a legal professional. But I'd like to get a little off-topic and just say that everyone experiences rape differently--that a person who suffers an assault that doesn't leave a lot of physical damage can suffer more psychological damage than a person who experiences extreme physical trauma. For example, …	/r/MensRights	06/06/11 10:24 PM
2	Question about believing alleged rape survivors I think implying that men and women abuse at different rates because of something innate to their gender is hateful, yes. But I don't particularly care to get into an argument about DV or rape statistics. I'll have to read up on the studies this thread uses when discussing those to get a general idea of where you're coming from.	/r/MensRights	06/06/11 09:50 PM
1	Question about believing alleged rape survivors Right, I mean, ideally both would be considered innocent until proven guilty; but that's hard to hold in the brain when discussing a rape trial or something. I think the definition of rape is non consensual sex--when you say widening do you mean including oral sex etc.? Also, a very drunk person (I go with if they are puking/stumbling) cannot consent to sex. I'm not sure if there's a hard and fast rule about blood alcohol content, but obviously you shouldn't sleep with vomiting/passed out people…	/r/MensRights	06/06/11 09:46 PM
1	Question about believing alleged rape survivors I know people who have been raped and their rapist was not convicted. I am angry because this is a miscarriage of justice. I know people who have been raped who have not reported the incident to the police; obviously their rapist is not convicted. Again, I am one data point, and personal experience is more salient to me than general statistics, so take that for what it is.	/r/MensRights	06/06/11 09:23 PM
1	Question about believing alleged rape survivors My experience has been that men and women survivors prefer at some point in their recovery to be referred to as survivors. If it gets the person through the day and into a better frame of mind, I don't care if it's in a vacuum, or has no seeming value to anyone except them. How would you term/not even term a survivor of sexual assault?	/r/MensRights	06/06/11 09:10 PM
2	Question about believing alleged rape survivors Look, I just want to make sure that people who need help, get it, regardless of gender. They should feel comfortable getting help and it should be readily available. It sounds different from what you perceive of modern feminists. I'm not frightened of rape, I'm angry that people who are raped don't get help or justice. But in context of the original question, I want to make sure when I talk about sexual assault trials, I'm being as honest and genuine as possible.	/r/MensRights	06/06/11 09:07 PM
1	Question about believing alleged rape survivors Yeah, I'm not a big fan of using past abuse to excuse present abuse. In fact, it's pretty terrible. I think males are subject to victim blaming (or just outright denial of assault) given cultural assumptions that women can't rape men, or that if they were raped by a man they are homosexual and other assorted nonsense.	/r/MensRights	06/06/11 09:03 PM
1	Question about believing alleged rape survivors I think it is incredibly important to support people IF and when they experience any victim-blaming. I work with sexual assault survivors and I have seen blatant victim blaming by ER workers, police, family members and the survivor themself. I try to address it if it comes up, just saying "It wasn't your fault." Again, I'm just one data point, but it's been my experience.	/r/MensRights	06/06/11 09:01 PM
1	Question about believing alleged rape survivors Thanks.	/r/MensRights	06/06/11 08:58 PM
2	Question about believing alleged rape survivors Uhhh. I try to use gender-neutral language because I think it's more constructive. I may disagree with you on individual statistics, but I think it's unproductive and a shame to ignore any abuse, regardless of gender identification (ie. using the term "he" as interchangeable with "rapist" or "she" as interchangeable with "victim or survivor." What do you mean by your second paragraph? I'm not totally sure I understand what you are saying there and I think it's important to you.	/r/MensRights	06/06/11 08:57 PM
1	Question about believing alleged rape survivors Ok, I see what you mean there. I think both names should be shielded.	/r/MensRights	06/06/11 08:21 PM
2	Question about believing alleged rape survivors I understand people approach it differently, I just wanted some different opinions on the topic from people who identify with men's rights. I use alleged to indicate that this is before conviction in a criminal trial in order to avoid preconceptions of guilt. I use the word survivor because survivors of sexual assault sometimes find it more empowering than the word "victim," though I leave it up to the person to determine how they define themself. I do not have a preference, but the survivors I'…	/r/MensRights	06/06/11 08:19 PM
1	Question about believing alleged rape survivors I don't mean to be repetitive, but can you give me an example (theoretical or otherwise) of what you mean by "special treatment from the justice system."	/r/MensRights	06/06/11 07:49 PM
2	Question about believing alleged rape survivors I did not reword the original question at all. I think it's important to ensure that all survivors see that people know assault is possible and happens regardless of gender identification. I think he may have assumed that I meant only female survivors of sexual assault, whereas I meant any survivors, men, trans-persons, etc.	/r/MensRights	06/06/11 07:48 PM
0	Question about believing alleged rape survivors Female on male and male on male rape is a huge concern, especially as I think males find it especially difficult to report and be taken seriously. Cultural stereotypes that men 'must want sex all the time and take it wherever they find it' are incredibly damaging. I wouldn't call the concern over rape "hysteria" per se because I think that gives an overwhelmingly negative connotation to very real and salient concerns. While we probably wouldn't agree on statistics, I'm trying to find a way to ap…	/r/MensRights	06/06/11 07:15 PM
1	Question about believing alleged rape survivors I think that hiding identities of both would be a good way to prevent demonization of either party. However, if we were in a dialogue about it, I'm pretty sure questions of guilt would come into the discussion and I don't know how to approach that while being as fair and nonjudgmental as possible to both parties involved.	/r/MensRights	06/06/11 07:10 PM
2	Question about believing alleged rape survivors That's a bit harsh, especially if the alleged victim is mentally disabled, a prisoner, very young or any number of things which make it difficult for them to report. I guess I'd like to believe that justice is possible with people dedicated enough to finding the truth, though I understand that our courts MUST operate on evidence in order to be fair.	/r/MensRights	06/06/11 05:11 PM
2	Question about believing alleged rape survivors It's difficult I think with sexual assault because sometimes the case comes down to "he-said, she-said," versus say a mugging with witnesses where it's pretty clear what happened. I guess my question is, do you withhold judgement of both alleged victim and alleged rapist? What do you mean by "special?"	/r/MensRights	06/06/11 04:55 PM