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View 11 posts and 1,265 comments by speltspelt on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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12

Let's correct this for the ~5.6 inch height difference between women and men - which is about what the height difference would be between two people who are otherwise genetically identical except for sex. the average mean height preference difference of all men was [4 inches taller than his height would be as a woman], the overall ideal range was [.7 inches taller than his height would be as a woman] to [7.2 inches taller than his height would be as a woman] the average mean height preference di…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/08/19 05:12 PM
2

there's no reason for women to want to have less sex than would maximize their reproductive success. women who matched the sex drives of men who wanted significantly more sex had less genetic success than those who didn't.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/19 06:43 PM
1

yeah, no kidding, it removes way more costs from women then men.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/19 03:05 PM
18

Women's sex drive is evolutionarily cooperative (there's no reason for them to have less sex than would make the partnership successful), men continue to have a sex drive even if sex would hurt or kill their partner because a large percentage is at least a little uncooperative. There's the other part of traditional marriage that men downplay/ignore - men had to support all the kids their sex drive generated. Sex always has a risk of pregnancy, and it's always reasonable not to have sex when your…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/04/19 09:13 PM
1

it's not actually all that puritan, they had very low and sometimes nonexistent rates of single parenthood due to corporal punishment for fornication for both sexes and making people get married.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/19 04:31 PM
3

1834-1844
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/19 02:50 PM
6

the UK tried this at one point. single motherhood spiked because there were no consequences for men. extreme social pressure on men to marry and stay with women they get pregnant are necessary to eliminate single motherhood, along with consequences for getting women pregnant that they have no intention of marrying. (combined with similar pressures on women).
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/19 02:29 PM
6

why do you think intelligent men with good character aren't being selected for? your average man who has kids is above average in intelligence. it's who he chooses to have kids with that is the 'issue'.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/19 07:32 PM
2

men in the U.S. want something like 2.1 theoretical kids on average, and often are more leery in practice. a woman in that context who conforms to male preference is going to have way fewer kids than a woman who orders her life around maximizing offspring and doesn't lift a finger for any man who's not on the same page - think Octomom. With greater male control over fertility, child-hostile men and any woman attracted to them that doesn't have the sense to look out for her interests are going to…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/04/19 11:35 PM
5

you're the one pulling the assertion out of thin air that women called these types of names are more likely to have, not just kids in general, but significantly more kids than other women.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/04/19 10:35 PM
5

why do you think the type of women you are thinking about will have more kids rather than, say, be pressured into more abortions, or get abandoned when she gets pregnant?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/04/19 09:52 PM
3

5'4" women and 5'9" men are approximately equal in genetic height. They would develop to be the same height if the Y chromosome were swapped out.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/03/19 06:20 PM
2

Billionaire with the model wife is cliche, but not the norm. The ones who play to the cliche tend to be the really tacky ones that a woman wouldn't gain a lot of status from being married to anyway. Trump types, though Trump's hardly a billionaire. Few people are actually jealous of Melania's marriage. https://www.ft.com/content/13cf5fc2-e9cb-11e4-ae1c-00144feab7de Multiple marriages is a successful male strategy if he keeps having kids in them, sure, but it's successful for the guy, not the wiv…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/03/19 08:33 PM
3

but that has nothing to do with what age is best to marry for women to get their preferences met. you want to look at the women who had the best outcomes and what they did. they're not fighting over multiply divorced men and, largely, they weren't getting married at 22. Later marrying demographics (like women with PhDs) are now much more likely to be married later in life than earlier-marrying one. They have much higher personal incomes. Higher status. Fewer kids, but technology is likely to sol…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/03/19 07:05 PM
2

Women should probably aim to pair up a little before the average marriage age for their demographic/culture.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/03/19 04:36 PM
1

do not mistake degree of interest from men for realized value for women. men are often very interested in pairings that are a very bad deal for women.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/03/19 04:34 PM
2

this is exceedingly uncommon in actual practice and is more about feeding the adoption market for unencumbered babies than trying to give women a free out. a man in a situation where he has a baby and no other parent around has the same rights too, it's not sex limited.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/06/18 04:23 PM
11

young marriage is more dangerous. women who marry younger than the standard age to get married in their society have less stable marriages and poorer outcomes within marriage. holding out may mean you're less likely to get married, but the marriage will be better. for college educated women the math there works out in favor of waiting basically every time. younger men often aren't genuinely ready for marriage either.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/18 03:05 PM
0

nah, not if the genetics are right. nurture doesn't mean a lot.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/18 04:49 PM
6

nah, men may want to have kids but they don't want to do the work, and without mom there's nobody to dump the work on by default. artificial gestation will advantage people who want to do the work of raising children... substantially women.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/18 03:50 AM
15

a) pregnancy sucks and is under-compensated within relationships, with lots of men using it as an excuse to mistreat/abandon women b) men, even/especially married men, are very hostile to larger families these days I expect fertility rates will recover with artificial gestation. At least for women. Artifical gametes may begin to edge out men.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/18 02:56 AM
1

the unquestionably fattest guy in my high school got married no problem. it's not a critical handicap on its own.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/18 11:24 PM
7

a guy who's going to bail if his partner ever gets pregnant again but is still having sex with her isn't commited or loyal in any sense whatsoever.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/18 03:48 AM
9

Here's an article from a few years ago on the same subject. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/07/130708103209.htm Men choosing to delay parenthood within partnered relationships a huge factor. Not exactly a tale of oppression there.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/18 01:01 AM
3

sure, from all I've heard the guys who are parents are very egalitarian and so on. that doesn't say anything about the guys who aren't parents in this context.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/18 12:57 AM
9

Some guys who want to have kids only want to have kids if someone else does all the work. It is reasonable for these men to be screened out. A lot of modern women have to meticulously plan their lives out and make severe sacrifices to have kids - not a lot of sympathy for men who won't do the same.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/18 12:30 AM
12

nah, willingness to pair up and have kids, and do it again if one relationship fails drives this, not casual sex inclination.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/05/18 05:21 PM
1

some guys don't want kids enough to make it a priority. these guys being selected out is reasonable and appropriate.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/05/18 04:50 PM
1

there aren't really serious barriers to fatherhood for fertile guys who want to be dads. guys who end up in that situation usually are either infertile or with an infertile monogamous partner (significant fraction), gay, don't want kids, or (entirely voluntarily) delayed parenthood until it was too late.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/05/18 04:45 PM
3

would be interesting to consider pregnancy-related scenarios along this vein too.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/05/18 04:39 PM
6

men absolutely give each other crap for being with low status women. low status in women isn't a popular, good-looking woman with a strong position in her social network and a job at a coffee shop. it's someone who is actually low on the status ladder and constantly bullied and shoved around by other men and women, including sexually.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/18 08:45 PM
3

larger, more muscular men are more likely to die in famines anyway. famine selects for smaller body size.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/18 02:56 PM
6

they also expect more help from women when they fall on hard times.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/18 04:45 PM
11

a woman I know's husband came home with a $20,000 model train locomotive once.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/18 11:19 PM
3

ehhhh... underestimating historical premarital pregnancy there.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/18 09:56 PM
3

why are you assuming that's her fault? dude fertility issues are quite common.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/04/18 02:55 PM
5

eh, not quite true. older women bring more chromosomal abnormalities to the table. They're bringing way fewer potentially harmful point mutations than men their age, though. A normal karyotype baby is going to have more issues related to dad's age than mom's.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/04/18 02:49 PM
6

in the 1680s, you could be fined or legally be forced to marry the mother as penalty for the crime of fornication... child support has existed from colonial times as well. It's from Lipit-Ishtar, close to 4000 years ago... "If a man's wife has not borne him children but a harlot from the public square has borne him children, he shall provide grain, oil and clothing for that harlot. The children which the harlot has borne him shall be his heirs, and as long as his wife lives the harlot shall not …
/r/PurplePillDebate13/04/18 04:08 PM
3

doesn't shock me, I know tons of zika-affected families were abandoned by men, married or not. consistent with the British experiment with this too.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/04/18 02:23 PM
1

there are pretty strong hormonal effects in pregnancy bonding women to unborn children.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/04/18 02:20 PM
3

where in Sumerian law = "brand spanking new"?
/r/PurplePillDebate13/04/18 02:11 PM
10

no, women who pair up young have consistently worse outcomes. a guy who rejects women his age for their age will reject younger women he dates when they reach that age. if you look at deserted wife stats from earlier eras, they're women who married younger than average.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/04/18 06:25 PM
2

presumably, either they would have committed suicide anyway, or they are balanced out by other men who are less likely to commit suicide now that divorce laws have been liberalized.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/18 05:59 PM
1

prison sentences aren't just about crimes, they're about incapacitating people from committing future crimes and rehabilitating people. men have higher reoffense.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/18 05:40 PM
8

the liberalization of divorce had no significant effect on male suicide, but dramatically reduced female suicide. http://www.nber.org/papers/w10175.pdf
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/18 04:25 PM
3

with high value men vying to marry her. "that's a courtesan" is no more valid a criticism than "thats a cheater" is regarding a man - it's the same dynamic. men rarely do things like pay $1000 for used panties to women who aren't monetizing sex or sex appeal in some way.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/18 04:53 PM
3

and has them regardless of past children, partners, history of prostitution, what have you. La Païva was 'high value' in the same sense as a cheating elite male.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/18 04:23 PM
3

by that metric there are 'high value' multipartner women as well
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/18 03:13 AM
11

you can't make assertions about the lived experience of people from what happened to uniparental lineages. it doesn't extrapolate to "one man would have children with 17 women". you can have a complete replacement of uniparental lineages with basically no change to the autosomal composition of the population.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/04/18 10:16 PM
3

it's not a reproductively successful phenotype.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/04/18 08:25 PM
6

men are basically always spending money, time, effort to cheat, this fantasy where male cheating is ever free doesn't exist. Mating effort takes away from reproductive effort.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/03/18 08:35 PM
3

she'll have to make up his deficit ,which is basically equivalent.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/03/18 08:32 PM
3

not if his family was "rougher" than hers. there will always be weaker parties that are unable to protect their interests compared to stronger parties. having a strong social network to call on in time of need is something that is itself status-related. nobody was going to save a wife from an alcoholic husband who chose to drink instead of pay for household expenses, historically.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/03/18 08:31 PM
8

BS on pretty much every level. Only women who had high status relatives who cared about them had any kind of recourse.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/03/18 06:21 PM
5

far fewer than lie about that sort of thing to try to cheat.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/18 04:37 PM
7

people never seemed to have a particular problem enslaving boys and men historically either. Capture and integration of males into foreign cultures was pretty common.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/18 02:06 PM
3

genealogy going back hundreds of years is done with church records, which do not discriminate by 'alphaness'. Men who are inclined to marry and have "bucks" are unlikely to have non-paternity events both at an absolute level and compared to pretty much any other population of men.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/18 12:28 AM
2

the ordinary NPE rate seems to be under 2% for western pops, and some of those would not be infidelity-related at all. And the genealogically well documented married people we (and the DNA people) have the most coverage of are going to be your supposed high-investment BBs. If the nonpaternity isn't happening there (which it wasn't)....any localized higher rates in various populations have to be among non-BBs.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/18 10:06 PM
3

yeah, but historically (let's say western culture last 500 years because we have the records/DNA to prove it) it didn't lead to extrapair kids either, modern contraception or no.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/18 08:43 PM
3

extrapair paternity is a tiny percentage, not a 'fallback position'.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/18 07:28 PM
1

the young girls these days will be able to. Don't know if the guys will be ready for the impact that will have.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/03/18 03:46 PM
9

unpaid care of relatives
/r/PurplePillDebate25/03/18 05:31 PM
5

breastfeeding
/r/PurplePillDebate25/03/18 05:29 PM
2

plenty of women were never going to orgasm with a man anyway!
/r/PurplePillDebate24/03/18 11:08 PM
2

Women are generally looking for a normal height difference. men and women differ in height so that's not that unreasonable. Some women are really into height. there are some handicaps for guys who are shorter than the average woman (say 5'4" or under). Guys over that height generally do fine by most metrics. Height in European populations was pretty swingy over the last half of the 1800s with some generations much shorter than others, it was not the end of the world and people still paired up an…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/03/18 07:06 PM
3

like "I got married by accident because I liked his parents"
/r/PurplePillDebate24/03/18 07:01 PM
1

eh, there should be minimum standards like avoiding people who will actively do you harm if you date them
/r/PurplePillDebate24/03/18 06:55 PM
3

I've been reading Slate's 'Interview with an old person' which asks old women and men about their lives and love lives and the stuff that comes up there is hilarious.The women were definitely making non-boner based choices. Sometimes for pretty questionable reasons, but...
/r/PurplePillDebate24/03/18 03:50 PM
2

women do that through pregnancy and caretaking. they are more obligate about it therefore guys have the privilege of having to care less.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/03/18 08:48 PM
5

of course, women never were... men have always been more likely to get that than women and that hasn't changed.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/03/18 07:40 PM
1

they might want to have sex with one girl. they don't want to marry or start a family yet.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/03/18 05:40 PM
1

it doesn't necessarily, it's just a difference.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/03/18 03:09 PM
2

yeah, had a similar experience, it's of course not always malicious, but when they're trying to put it off to 10+ years in the future this tends to mean either 'never' or 'not with you' and always means 'it's not really a priority to me'.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/03/18 12:47 AM
5

guys are reliably dishonest about this at the timelines we're talking about
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/18 11:05 PM
1

though far less so going forward into the future than it was in the past.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/18 10:25 PM
3

for a woman who wants kids (the subject of this thread), not dating a guy who wants to put off kids until 39 actually is important.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/18 10:21 PM
18

eh... I don't think it's accurate. "women are generally not attracted to spineless wimps" is reasonable. Implications that the guys they are attracted to are necessarily bad or that spineless wimps are necessarily good are less reasonable.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/18 09:31 PM
6

My suspicion is that average engineering/cs dude is much more likely to be married to a woman he was dating at 25 than one he was dating at 19. They are also likely to put off kids past 30, expecting the woman to 'court' him for an unreasonably extended period of time.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/18 08:58 PM
1

early maturity isn't the same as overall attractiveness. cockroaches sexually mature while humans are still in diapers, doesn't make them sexier.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/18 08:37 PM
8

Also, if they want a family and kids with that guy in particular, the woman who starts to date him at 25 actually has better odds than the woman who starts to date him at 19 because highly educated guys want to delay this stuff.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/18 08:30 PM
1

These guys don't want to pair up early. They get women at their level about when they want to pair up, which is to be expected. Earlier, they're demanding more and offering a lot less.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/18 08:22 PM
1

and if a guy is hostile to emotional connection with a woman who's not into his dick, his loneliness is also self-imposed.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/18 03:48 PM
2

the hook-up guys have vastly lower marriage stability, moderately lower marriage rate, and lower fertility than guys with 1 lifetime partner.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/03/18 05:02 PM
2

polygamy is largely in steep decline where it exists.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/03/18 02:49 PM
3

My great grandmother had a boyfriend in his 70s up until she died in her 90s.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/03/18 05:10 AM
2

it's not just appearance, either. Guys fall apart health-wise much faster.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/03/18 05:09 AM
1

prohibition reduced domestic violence and helped women.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/03/18 08:44 PM
7

you do realize that most real world polygamy is accomplished by lying to all the women involved and then counting on social pressure or legal disability to keep them married to you once they find out?
/r/PurplePillDebate20/03/18 07:39 PM
7

they're getting heavily recruited by sperm banks. point is, wanting to have sex with the women the criminals are having sex with and being desperately jealous and all that is men negatively selecting for women.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/03/18 04:32 PM
3

masturbating multiple times a day could create some issues.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/03/18 04:25 PM
5

actually, men selecting. There isn't a vast difference between reproductive outcomes based on intelligence for men, but men preferentially reproduce with less intelligent women.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/03/18 03:53 PM
2

it's unlikely the /average/ rapper does, though. Don't focus on outliers.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/03/18 03:44 PM
2

the people with large numbers of kids make most of the reproductive impact. A guy with two kids from two different babymamas isn't exactly being reproductively extraordinary....he might be early, but that only matters if you're over replacement and hurts if you're under replacement.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/03/18 03:43 PM
9

men actually can't have 1000 children a year, unless perhaps they're sperm donors for a particularly dodgy fertility clinic that's splitting up ejaculate. There are genuine limits on male fertility, which goes down with sex frequency, and many men are infertile or subfertile. There's an allele of about 50% prevalence in the population that nukes a sperm's ability to get through cervical mucus, for instance... and nevertheless sticks around, because human men don't actually need to be as fertile …
/r/PurplePillDebate20/03/18 01:45 PM
3

some ways to do circumcision are riskier than others. Ultra-orthodox jews have very risky practices due to putting their mouth on the kid and letting guys with herpes do it.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/03/18 09:05 PM
9

"struggling" is subjective - there are tons of average guys butthurt about normal outcomes that think they are uniquely put upon. A struggling guy is often more intrinsically unhappy than externally oppressed.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/03/18 02:24 PM
2

"In the GSS and the NHSLS, clients reported, on average,seven to nine times more partners for the last year than nonclients did. In the Colorado Springs study, on average, prostitutes accounted for 48% of the partners for heterosexual men reporting more than 15 partners in the last 6 months but only 17% of the partners for heterosexual men reporting 15 or fewer partners in the last 6 months. These observations suggest that the primary source of underreporting contact with prostitutes may be me…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/18 11:59 PM
2

No, they aren't saying that prostitute necessarily underreported, only that she was unrepresentative. They're looking at sampling bias, not reporting bias.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/18 11:54 PM
2

I'm pretty sure this is talking about "more sex partners" like lifetime 10, not "more sex partners" like lifetime 40. Pretty much everyone in the lifetime 40 range has paid for sex at some point. Anyway, these are less fertile than average guys, and I don't really buy the argument that they would have been more fertile in the past... 200 years ago it would just be "they would have had more children except for the high mortality rates for illegitimate children and their wives getting PID". The up…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/18 11:44 PM
2

you're making a lot of assertions that this USED to turn into fitness (and so are other people), but the past also had a lot of selection pressures that don't exist today and we don't actually see that fertility dynamic going on in surveyed people who were young before hormonal contraception was a thing.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/18 11:32 PM
2

it really doesn't take that many women racking up 5 times the lifetime average in a night to skew things.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/18 11:17 PM
2

A lot of the bloggers who used to do GSS analysis for kicks aren't up anymore. Not my favorite source but analyzing some related claims. http://www.unz.com/jman/some-guys-get-all-the-babes-not-exactly/
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/18 10:24 PM
2

they're saying more prostitutes with larger counts should have been in the sample but weren't because how the sample was constructed, not that there had to be women in the sample who were lying.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/18 08:26 PM
2

you're trying to conflate marital offspring from multiple women with marrying one women and screwing around. A guy with 3 spouses can have N=3, he's not necessarily having sex with a lot of women OR screwing around on his partners. You're also discounting all women who would be interested in pairing up with a guy but don't fruitlessly have sex with him trying to do so. A man can have high-quality options without sleeping with most or any of them.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/18 06:37 PM
2

A study (which probably doesn't replicate given the state of social research) with 200 college students is MUCH less representational than correcting the GSS to include women who have thousands of partners a year.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/18 06:29 PM
2

having consecutive spouses is not equivalent to promiscuity or cheating.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/18 06:24 PM
1

You're doing a lot of circular arguing to avoid the point that you don't have any direct evidence that high partner count males end up with more reproductive success. You're also ignoring that higher quality women can make their own demands... and that since parents contribute equally to their kids, are in a good a position to do so genetically as a man in their situation. And male reproductive single partner success isn't 3 kids. Three kids is men half-assing it (yes, even 3 different baby mama…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/18 04:37 PM
2

mating isn't the main filter in human evolution, child survival is. Most humans were always able to get a partner. Male behavior that tries to go through partners frequently and desperately tries to avoid investing in them is usually coming from a position of weakness, not strength. Lifelong single partner men have the most children on average, pro-child men have more children than the ew-babies-sex-sex-sex crowd. Guys that don't solidly pair up young are at a disadvantage. There are multi-partn…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/18 01:57 AM
2

having sex with lots of women isn't genetically attractive, having lots of surviving grandchildren is. They are not very well correlated, despite TRP insistence.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/03/18 11:19 PM
1

romantic posturing is not equivalent to commitment - it's often actually social aggression.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/03/18 04:24 PM
2

basically none of those fit the bill. a kid by a mistress of 8 years or a mistress of 2 years or whatever who's granted a vast dowry isn't a one night stand kid. They're guys who are putting a lot of money into cheating, in both cases at the expense of having legitimate kids to inherit. I don't see anyone in there who fits the bill of someone who was reproductively successful just from getting the king's DNA, as opposed to financial support.... there's a laundress's kid, but she had only 1 daugh…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/03/18 01:45 AM
2

nah, women are fine with it if the man's good at it. men who are as good at it as an average SAHM are fine ( and probably also the minority )
/r/PurplePillDebate16/03/18 09:37 PM
3

yeah, it's only oppressive when men have to do it?
/r/PurplePillDebate16/03/18 09:36 PM
3

maybe if the girl has no data, but in this circumstance she has lots of direct experience with the guy. She doesn't have to go off stereotypes at all, even if she would if she didn't know the guy.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/03/18 06:28 PM
3

the attitude change that would impress her with another woman would also impress her if just changed his approach and kept courting her. going after another woman without the attitude change isn't going to do anything.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/03/18 05:34 PM
2

the Khan genetic cluster has been disproved. We're not looking at male genetic success here, we're looking at female genetic success. You named a man, not a woman, and his mother was chief wife, not a one night stand. If being abandoned by hot men immediately after sex was worth womens while, there would be tons of very reproductively successful men whose mothers were instantly abandoned by their fathers. Again, I doubt you could even name one
/r/PurplePillDebate16/03/18 04:53 PM
6

consider a woman in an environment with 5 guys she'd consider dating. Assuming she's monogamous, it only makes sense to pursue one guy at a time, but unless guys in general are a 100% sure bet (they aren't) it makes no sense to gratuitously offend guys she might consider dating but is not currently dating.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/03/18 03:52 PM
6

lol at "turning down girls" for the guy being a horrible cost but simultaneously expecting women to pre-emptively reject men.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/03/18 03:08 PM
7

Women should vet, but those kind of actions certainly shouldn't be the only or primary criteria.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/03/18 02:44 PM
2

I suspect you'd have a hard time finding even one case where the younger one night stand of a married man had enough grandchildren through that liason to make it evolutionarily worth her while.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/18 11:50 PM
6

I do genealogy. It doesn't actually work out like that in real life. The young marriage types brutally own. If your reproductive strategy depends on multiple people entirely ignoring their own interests to help you out, statistically it's not going to happen. Can see it in the DNA too. My one great grandmother who was illegitimate has basically no cousins, close or distant. The farmer families are multitudes.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/18 05:40 PM
1

you would be surprised - there are guys who don't ejaculate during sex, and guys who fake orgasm. bit guys being unhappy with reasonable sex because they're so hung up on the porn fantasy in their heads is a problem too.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/18 04:39 PM
3

nah. guy doing that isn't going to have as many surviving grandchildren on average as the guy marying young, being very open to children, and not bringing fertility-nuking STDs home.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/18 04:10 PM
2

under 5, no STDs, no butthurt about not being more promiscuous.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/18 04:04 PM
2

fucking around != reproductive success
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/18 03:41 PM
4

plenty of guys complaining about "starfishing" or lack of anal or her not being into his furry diaper kink.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/18 02:27 PM
4

if men put in more on average they would be competed for. they don't.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/18 08:32 PM
3

eh, men don't lose teeth from calcium depletion from pregnancy or bladder control from childbirth. the biological cost from engaging in reproductive acts is vastly higher for women.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/18 06:51 PM
6

meanwhile you've got guys running around here doing things like talking about their plans to serially divorce women for personal benefit...
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/18 03:30 PM
9

female sexuality is much more reproductively cooperative than male. Men benefit from this quite a bit in infancy and later life. If they have no intention of paying this back later in life they start 'owing' women evolutionarily. As long as men invest in the care of children grudgingly or selectively, this'll be the case.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/18 02:44 PM
1

male infants get automatically handed a ton. they just don't remember it so they think it doesn't count.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/03/18 06:51 PM
3

it's not like women are showing up to dates or meetups with a photo pasted over their face like deadpool.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/03/18 03:00 PM
1

no, it's not interchangable because adults were once kids, and if men are abandoning kids from most of the women they are involved with this creates an entire system where chances are an adult man was himself abandoned, giving him disadvantages, his partners were potentially abandoned, giving them disadvantages, and women have to price in a high chance of nonsupport into all of their interactions with men, also disadvantaging any particular man compared to a fully cooperative society.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/03/18 04:48 PM
1

mating effort and reproductive effort are tradeoffs. A guy chasing strange dickfeels isn't and can't give 100% to his kids. Guys, in general, are nowhere near maxed out on the amount of reproductive effort they /could/ provide.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/03/18 02:46 PM
2

the idea that a guy is still meaningfully pair bonded if he's putting tons of effort into chasing other women, but a woman's not if she's divorced is kinda funny. The woman in that situation (if she has kids) is probably putting more effort into the couple's reproductive success than the man is. Women rarely stop reproductive effort, while men often do, even within formal relationships.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/03/18 02:51 AM
1

no, because male behavior changed
/r/PurplePillDebate10/03/18 09:16 PM
11

there's some other Roman poem where the woman does have anal sex with her husband and he laughs at her that she thinks he'll then be faithful and not have sex with slave boys. nothing in this poem indicates that the guy deserves her making the slightest effort for him. he's pretty gross.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/03/18 08:26 PM
4

she could have had sex once ever. all sex comes with a risk of pregnancy, doesn't say anything about her attitude towards sex if she's pregnant.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/03/18 05:16 PM
2

social calendar and logistics stuff, a greater burden of house and kid related work, being more willing to move for the guy's job, ending up on the hook for taking care of his parents... some combination of those are usual. Plenty of women bring more money or a house into relationships these days too.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/03/18 04:48 PM
1

not really, only direct casualties. https://www.prio.org/Publications/Publication/?x=7207
/r/PurplePillDebate08/03/18 04:30 PM
1

she's much more of a giver than her sperm donor guy. women like this only exist -because- men are takers on average.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/03/18 03:44 PM
1

that's doing half that work, you don't start being a giver until you're doing /more/ than your fair share.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/03/18 03:25 PM
2

needy guys are takers too.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/03/18 03:19 PM
4

these guys think a man taking care of a woman's kid is being incredibly giving, while a woman taking care of a man's kid is grasping and demanding. It's all bs.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/03/18 03:15 PM
4

http://news.gallup.com/poll/156416/americans-spend-151-week-food-high-income-180.aspx It's not a major difference, nor is it oppression. Food has never been easier to get in human history.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/18 05:15 PM
1

doesn't work for all women, and women face the same barriers as men if they want to have a baby withput paying the serious physical cost of pregnancy.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/18 05:07 PM
3

surrogacy is rare but an option.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/18 05:06 PM
2

Mencken did eventually get married.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/18 03:56 PM
5

restaurants serve male portions anyway, home-cooked food can be cheap regardless of portion. Men spend only 7% more on food anyway, and most could eat cheaper than they do.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/18 03:54 PM
8

uh.... guys never have to pay the physical cost of pregnancy, and usually dodge a lot of other reproductive costs too. Getting someone to do this for them can be expensive, but it's not necessarily more expensive than paying the physical cost...usually not imho.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/18 03:50 PM
1

ehhhh. in the vast majority of human cases the genetic "payoff" for hanging out with a high-promiscuity guy is unikely to be higher than the cost. High promiscuity in guys does not on average equal high fertility (guys who marry young as virgins have higher average fertility). There are outliers, but most of the women in ancient large harems had fewer kids than necessary to reproduce /themselves/ (genetically they don't care about reproducing the guy) and the kids had poor survival and reproduct…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/18 02:39 PM
5

A lot of the profiles of attractive people and particularly women on sites like these due to the profit motive are going to be fake. Attractive women with model-like photos messaging first are going to have a much higher proportion of bots and scammers.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/03/18 06:30 PM
2

not actually true, 19 year olds have worse outcomes.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/03/18 10:12 PM
2

in a guy's view, an asshole is a guy who directs aggression at him or doesn't spend social capital on him when he wants him to spend it. But when you get down to it, not all aggression (particularly social) and exclusion is /undeserved/, and a lot of 'assholes' just have healthy boundaries.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/03/18 06:37 PM
1

plenty of women starved under coverture.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/18 09:45 PM
1

referring to OP.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/18 03:05 PM
1

women give birth to children, without which there is no retirement for anyone, period, and men live their lives immune to childbirth.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/18 03:03 PM
3

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/men-far-more-likely-to-benefit-from-affirmative-action-in-college-admissions/ no shortage of articles on this subject over the last 10+ years, just google it.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/18 03:01 PM
6

Policies that support sex-crazed child-hostile antisocial types during their reproductive years at the expense of all other males aren't pro-male in general, they're pro-those males. Who are a small minority. And supporting children is not anti-male.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/18 12:32 AM
5

there's already affirmative action for men (men getting in with lower grades and test scores) in many sex imbalanced institutions.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/18 11:47 PM
1

not really? a guy benefits a lot from his father, his partner's father, his daughter's partner all investing in their children and not screwing them over. He benefits a lot less from an environment where all other males are trying to have sex with everything in sight
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/18 11:44 PM
6

adult male interests aren't the only male interests, much as they'd like to think so. Pro-child policies help male children (who are a majority of all children).
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/18 09:24 PM
2

The end result of the disconnect between reproduction and sex will be less sex. The other end of the sexual revolution (children on demand regardless of age without pregnancy, possibly genetically engineered too) is going to happen. The culture and genes of people who reproduce will survive, this will not necessarily involve sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/18 06:08 AM
3

women can be /bullied into sex/, which doesn't have anything to do with attraction. Attraction to a type of woman doesn't translate to treating that woman well for a man either.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/02/18 04:02 PM
5

another factor is that men treat agreeable women worse when they get them.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/02/18 03:43 PM
10

don't believe everything you see on Game of Thrones. inbreeding is actually very bad for you.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/02/18 10:05 PM
1

there is a huge later life cull, as can be seen by average tech worker and social worker ages, particularly in the top companies
/r/PurplePillDebate24/02/18 04:22 PM
1

over the course of their lifetimes that may be equivalent - tech age discriminates harshly so that 150k won't be on offer forever (and is less stable), social workers often get pension.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/02/18 12:34 AM
1

16 year old kids are not fully grown and generally have significant physical development to go. If he's comparing himself to guys of somewhat different ages and development tempos (normal within a school class), that's not necessarily useful or healthy.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/02/18 08:13 PM
1

plenty of men give less than their all to their partners, or actively sabotage or cheat on them.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/02/18 08:10 PM
5

women have kids with the men they marry. That's being chosen for DNA and genes, sheesh.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/02/18 08:09 PM
5

the people who want families will have the kids.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/02/18 05:47 PM
7

Ever consider not viewing this with a double standard here? Consider a woman who has sex every 6-8 weeks when single, not always the same guy. TRP types view this as too much sex and not ok for a relationship. Let's say she gets into the relationship and continues the behavior, the same behavior exactly, but all with the same guy. Suddenly this is frigid and sex-negative despite the frequency not changing at all! The guy in the relationship is getting more sex, more frequently than any of the pr…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/02/18 05:46 PM
19

women don't make time for casual partners when they're not in the mood for sex, and have sex less frequently out of a relationship. a guy who only interacts with a woman when she's horny isn't necessarily /making/ her horny. Guys in a relationship are usually having sex more frequently with her than a casual partner (or combination of all casual partners) would be.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/02/18 04:06 PM
5

basically giving women all the financial downsides of pairing up without the upsides. The guy who "falls on hard times" gets to be supported by his partner or else she's somehow disloyal, but somehow guys never view it as disloyal of /him/ to sponge off her then.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/18 11:02 PM
2

expecting someone non-broke to stay with you if you're broke is itself using that someone for their money in most circumstances.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/18 06:28 PM
1

men are not likely to treat socially incompetent women well at all. that's the risk. women need the social skills to screen and the social skills to avoid risks within relationships and if they don't have those they're in a world of hurt.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/18 04:53 PM
2

they should have the same choices before the guy orgasms and after childbirth, not any time in between, because they are very differently vulnerable in that inbetween time.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/18 12:26 AM
3

isn't he fully aware that she might not like the idea of being abandoned in pregnancy? and that pregnancy is a hormonally altered state where she may not make the kind of decisions he would want her to?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/18 12:23 AM
1

College freshman is 18, maybe 19. Look at the CDC growth curves, they don't stop at 18. Average guy has some height, weight, mental, and secondary sexual characteristic(beard and so on) development left to go even if the bulk of puberty is over.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/02/18 11:19 PM
1

they are still real costs she's only liable for because of her sex that a man in her situation would not necessarily have to pay.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/02/18 10:51 PM
1

guys aren't fully physically mature by freshman year (they're also most attracted to women a little older than them at that point, rather than agemates)
/r/PurplePillDebate21/02/18 09:41 PM
1

eh, it's a little different in that she had the extra physical and probably career and medical costs a man in her position could totally avoid. That said she should pay support and there's nothing unjust about it, she's just left worse off than she would have been if the sexes were switched.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/02/18 08:24 PM
7

guys are perfectly fine with her not wanting to have sex with him as long as she's doing the work to fake liking it. they're actually less fine with her being honest about what she likes and doesn't, on average.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/02/18 06:03 PM
11

easily disproved by just doing a search for 'anal' on those subs.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/02/18 05:25 PM
5

or, to phrase it differently, OP is most attracted to girls who are attracted to thugs.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/02/18 05:18 PM
10

you're doing your normal thing of conflating desire with compliance
/r/PurplePillDebate21/02/18 05:09 PM
3

I don't think men are punished more than women for lacking social acuity when pursuing romantic relationships.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/02/18 03:29 PM
13

which is a reasonable response to a guy sending months of gross texts when you get down to it.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/02/18 03:12 PM
2

and many if not most false reports of rape are not "directed at" a named suspect in my experience.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/02/18 03:04 PM
7

statistically, people in large age gap couples aren't the cream of the crop on either side
/r/PurplePillDebate21/02/18 12:19 AM
11

I've found most of the TRP type posters here, despite their scorn for consent in general make universal exceptions when male interests are on the line. I suspect very few of the men who agree with OP here would also agree with "if you don't want kids you have to say so firmly and repeatedly at every possible opportunity and /also/ not ejaculate anywhere near a woman you don't want kids with."
/r/PurplePillDebate20/02/18 04:14 PM
4

they're also only willing to consider a pretty small fraction of women, on average.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/18 06:08 PM
3

eh, abandoning children is immoral
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/18 05:59 PM
2

10 k child support is trivial compared to the time and money expenses of being a custodial parent (costs the guy's partner pays).
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/18 05:34 PM
3

here's what the Saudis think https://english.alarabiya.net/en/features/2017/01/13/Over-5-6-million-Saudis-remain-unmarried-past-marriage-age-survey-shows.html
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/18 05:31 PM
4

I'm dating a guy like that. But I probably wouldn't have if I hadn't known him well for 5 years beforehand. On average it's probably a bad bet.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/18 05:28 PM
10

most of the guys here are not offering anywhere near in the range of what they're trying to demand.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/18 04:41 PM
3

nothing in it for the woman to marry young there if the man is likely to start looking for 'better' as soon as possible. If she's marrying someone who's not a sure thing, he can't expect what he would expect if he were a sure thing. "If I fail, I will drag you down with me, if I succeed I will dump you" - only an idiot would accept that deal.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/18 04:37 PM
3

I suspect higher intelligence men are more likely to want nonreciprocal interactions that give them a lot and cost them little with lower intelligence women and this is a factor.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/02/18 06:02 PM
6

all kinds of weird assumptions going on here. child numbers aren't necessarily going to be correlated to wealth or attractiveness, they're a different axis.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/02/18 05:14 AM
4

women aren't happy with polygamous men. the man's happiness is irrelevant to that. men who cheat don't respect their wives either. they might also want more sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/02/18 07:45 PM
2

how is she supposed to say no if she's being choked?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/02/18 06:59 PM
2

unwanted sex is a threatening situation. getting choked is absolutely a threatening situation in that it can easily kill you and simultaneously limits your ability to act and speak. r/india did a thread some time ago about all the fucked up sexual stuff that happened to them as kids. Nearly universally guys, but plenty of freezing up and so on.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/02/18 06:57 PM
2

men freeze during rape too, and women are more likely to report their rapes than men when you get down to it.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/02/18 04:23 PM
2

lol, that's how ancient rape laws were mostly structured. I'm not saying we should do something about it, I'm saying 'fairness' would require a lot more controls on men than we have now. If you want to control your wife's fertility and parental investment and she has no control over yours... that is not wanting something fair, that is wanting something biased to your advantage.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/02/18 06:33 PM
2

largely any liability for men for child support, damages for sexual assault, getting thrown in jail for sexting teenagers like Weiner hits the couple, she's not immune from it. If a guy buys rings for his 3 simultaneous Filipino fiances. If he spends money on escorts or his diaper kink or whatever. Guys pour money out of marital property into sexual misbehavior constantly and women have no real protection from any of it. Weinstein, that doctor in NY who had 22 kids outside of marriage and got ha…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/02/18 05:36 PM
3

worth pointing out the current system has tons of ways in which women are financially punished for the sexual misbehavior of her spouse.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/02/18 04:45 PM
1

aka "I want the kind of adultery that harms women in the relationship to be legal and that which harms men illegal".
/r/PurplePillDebate15/02/18 04:27 PM
1

deaths due to warfare skew male but are not exclusively male. Women have never been immune from dying from direct attacks of warfare (consider things like city firebombing) and are generally more vulnerable to dying from the indirect effects of warfare than men.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/02/18 03:52 PM
2

Y line genetic genealogy flat out wouldn't work if nonpaternity rates were 10%, 30% or whatever. There would be no correlation in that case between hundreds-year-old surnames and the DNA. What we see instead is that it works okay, with discrepencies consistent with a 1-2% nonpaternity event rate per generation. And not all of the NPEs would be malicious or "fraudulent".
/r/PurplePillDebate15/02/18 12:23 AM
1

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lydia_Fairchild My great-grandmother's father was not the man on her birth certificate. But her mother wasn't the woman on her birth certificate either. Somebody bribed the authorities into producing a totally fake birth certificate for her and pseudo-mom took her in. Fake dad was dead at the time. This is a nonpaternity event in genealogical terms.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/02/18 09:43 PM
4

dudes have the power to not give people their semen indiscriminately.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/02/18 08:33 PM
4

we went with legal responsibility because enough guys refused to take moral responsibility that it was a social problem.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/02/18 08:30 PM
6

some men are better parents than the person they reproduce with. but that's not the typical case.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/02/18 08:23 PM
2

if women had kids that were clones, I'd be fine with it, but as is that's an evolutionary subsidy to shitty men
/r/PurplePillDebate14/02/18 08:21 PM
1

I am relatively blase about paternity testing in my personal life. I'll probably be doing genetic testing (not specifically paternity) on any kids I have when they're old enough. Desperate neuroticism on the subject woud be an extremely unattractive trait in a guy though... very strong signal that he'd be a bad partner in other ways and is looking for an excuse to bail. Generally, I'd suggest something like 23andMe over a classic 'paternity test' in general. All tests have an error rate, the mor…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/02/18 07:09 PM
2

plenty of men's shelters too...look at NYC's stats.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/02/18 06:15 PM
5

it's pretty common in societies where men have rights to the income of women (wives or daughters) in their family to use those rights abusively. Plenty of that happening in Saudi, but back in the day it wasn't uncommon for a man to grab his wife's earnings at the mill to feed his booze habit.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/02/18 06:05 PM
3

by that metric, women shouldn't take a guy paying the mortgage in a relationship seriously, because it's just spending money.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/18 04:27 PM
4

men want women to be cooperative with them but have strong boundaries against men who aren't them. women want the same. men who want a woman who cooks don't want a woman who cooks every night for the homeless shelter instead of him.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/18 07:21 PM
2

okay, what if she is so nice and confrontation-shy she never says no to a guy who wants to have sex with her, even when you're dating?
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/18 07:09 PM
11

the guy who wants to be kind is more intrinsically kind than the guy who only behaves like that because of a pathological fear of confrontation
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/18 07:08 PM
7

kindness is a positive, codependency isn't. are men impressed with the kindness and generosity of a woman who keeps going back to abusive men and treating them well? sources say no.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/18 06:42 PM
2

only 4 on that list is really a major problem. but it's a huge problem.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/18 06:31 PM
3

guys being increasingly butthurt about having kids is disincentivizing marriage more than other dynamics are incentivizing single motherhood. the only evolutionarily meaningful measure of commitment is "willing to support the next pregnancy and existing kids". Marriage is increasingly not that.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/18 06:24 PM
4

better strategy for her than marriage, it looks like.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/18 05:57 PM
6

marriage is no guarantee that men will reproductively cooperate either.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/18 05:56 PM
2

women raising kids singly are being more responsible than the guys that aren't
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/18 05:54 PM
8

and in other cases, often he is abandoning her within the relationship by not helping out with the kid, being dangerous to her, or cheating.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/18 05:14 PM
2

women select slightly more intelligent men, less intelligent women just have more kids.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/18 04:51 PM
3

statistically false, at least for white guys in america. Women slightly select for intelligence, men are the ones choosing less intelligent women.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/18 04:51 PM
1

untrue for men.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/18 04:36 PM
9

the OP's link indicates the majority of single moms are in a relationship with the dad at the time of birth. he walks later.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/18 04:16 PM
3

there's no reason women should put effort into convincing guys who don't want kids to have kids. If they don't want kids they can...not have kids.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/18 03:59 PM
9

so women are expected to be perfect at predicting which guys will screw them over? men have agency too, and a lot of them use it to be shits. Plenty of men walk away from kids they claimed they wanted.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/18 03:49 PM
2

before 20s is really really bad but early 20s is still not as good as late 20s or even early 30s.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/18 09:29 PM
1

some of that is status related though. women getting the short end of the stick because they are or act low status.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/18 04:40 PM
1

about half of disabled women with partners get abused by their partners, and they have lower romantic success than disabled men as well.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/18 04:04 PM
9

marrying early 20s has worse outcomes (divorce risk, financial) for women than late 20s/early 30s.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/18 03:56 PM
10

I've seen estimates that 50% of married men deployed in WWII cheated when deployed as well.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/18 01:46 AM
5

disabled women are less likely to be partnered than disabled men
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/18 10:19 PM
8

Women are there for men much more than men for women, because women outlive men. It's the male promise that is basically worthless, because of relative lifespans...and it's pretty frequent for him to bankrupt the family and leave nothing for her on his way out too.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/18 04:59 PM
5

the women men save in movies are generally highly attractive potential romantic interests, not representative of adult women in general.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/02/18 08:05 PM
1

Genghis's lineage was important. It also went genealogically extinct after not too many centuries, because it was important enough to get killed over. There isn't a clear male line existent today. Doesn't mean it's actually extinct, only that the people important enough to have been recorded ultimately didn't continue the line. Having lots of kids with a harem tends to go hand in hand with a system where rulers (or their moms) kill off their many brothers and uncles to support their own kids. Bi…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/02/18 07:51 PM
0

if you think the autosomal impact on humanity of the residents of mongolia c.1200 was anywhere near the impact of an equivalent number of residents of the serially monogamous England c 1200 you haven't really thought it out.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/02/18 06:14 PM
1

neither reproductive skew nor smaller male effective population size means men were monopolizing women. there's a ton of reproductive skew between you and Jim-Bob Duggar, but he's not particularly oppressing you in any way.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/02/18 05:03 PM
2

eh, a lot of that is about the man's attractiveness to a hypothetical 20 year old woman rather than attractiveness to a same age woman. Men don't look better to 20 year olds as they age, but since women prefer men about the same age they may look better to a 30 or 40 year old.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/02/18 11:34 PM
3

https://familyinequality.wordpress.com/2015/07/22/how-we-really-can-study-divorce/ here's a good chart of divorce outcomes by when women get married.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/02/18 07:08 PM
2

she's much more likely to end up poor, divorced, and abandoned if she marries young. on average, men aren't good to women who do that, compared to how they treat women who delay marriage.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/02/18 06:20 PM
2

women who marry younger end up with higher divorce rates and lower lifetime income. they get meaningful commitment at lower rates than women who marry late 20s/early 30s
/r/PurplePillDebate01/02/18 05:44 PM
1

eh. pre-birth control a married woman whose guy failed to support her (which usually happened eventually) could lean on her four kids or whatever. poor child-hostile modern guys are offering basically nothing by comparison.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/02/18 04:25 PM
3

male hard work should be rewarded like female hard work :p
/r/PurplePillDebate01/02/18 04:20 PM
1

should men who have no intention of supporting a family have better access to those jobs than women who want to support a family?
/r/PurplePillDebate01/02/18 04:15 PM
-1

if women don't want to die alone, they're better off having kids as a single mother than pairing up with a man who doesn't want kids. Men die younger and have a nasty tendency to impoverish their partner on the way out.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/18 11:57 PM
1

men forget and disregard all the work that went into them as boys.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/18 07:43 PM
1

being good at non-income marriage skills is pretty well correlated with income for guys. the perceptual gap between what guys think of as the female gender role and what the female gender role actually is is often pretty large too.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/18 07:20 PM
2

ah yes, the guy living in mom's basement has been cast cruelly adrift by the female sex
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/18 06:49 PM
1

http://www.pleeps.org/2016/06/01/sociosexuality-vs-fastslow-life-history/ a lot of behavior variation has strong genetic influences (including sociosexuality, family size, age at first kid), some strategies work better than others, sex partner count after age 18 is negatively associated with number of children
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/18 07:51 PM
2

then they'd be all over guys who hire prostitutes. you have the causality backwards, anyway.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/18 07:39 PM
1

most men will do better marrying young and being highly open to having children than staying single and trying to fuck around. This was true even pre-abortion, btw. Men with 1 lifetime sex partner average more kids than men with 50.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/18 06:27 PM
1

NBA players average like 1 illegitimate child apiece. Might be lower now, actually. And that's a highly privileged set of guys with regards to casual sex. Most will do much worse than Mitt Romney overall. It's thought that Wilt Chamberlain had maybe one son, who's gay. Might as well have been a virgin.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/18 06:04 PM
2

rolls eyes the libertine gene package is a worse one for gene transmission than the patriarch gene package then.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/18 05:17 PM
1

I've seen cross cultural sex frequency studies. IIRC, in the diverse cultures studied sex frequency in marriage when the woman was over 50 averaged less than every two weeks, sometimes much less. And I think that excluded couples who hadn't had sex in the part year.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/18 04:49 PM
1

the libertines aren't knocking women up at an above replacement rate, on average. the guys having 4+ kids get the bulk of the evolutionary impact, and these are largely guys in the ever-married rather than never-married category who want kids and start young.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/18 04:43 PM
2

even if he had custody, someone would have to take care of the kid. average child care cost is higher than average child support.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/18 04:32 PM
1

that's basically marriage giving them a free slave.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/18 04:24 PM
1

Eh.... men get more evolutionary benefit out of being a patriarch than a libertine, which is the only benefit that matters in the long term. Guys chasing purely nonreproductive sex are beginning to purge themselves out of the gene pool.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/18 04:02 PM
5

films set in distant historic times, like Spartacus, or the Ten Commandments
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/18 11:47 PM
6

the sword and sandal films of the late 50s/early 60s were chock full of muscly hairless guys. They're more male fantasy than female fantasy, but they're nothing new.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/18 11:31 PM
1

Sean Connery was who they hired for James Bond when they couldn't get Steve Reeves.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/18 11:21 PM
1

it's not even that old - even the undisputed most assholic alpha chimp ever observed by researchers did all his reproduction before 25 and had fewer kids than his mom did anyway (including the one he had with his mom). Surviving ex-alphas are subordinate to younger males, they don't necessarily die on top, they spend their later years in a subordinate position.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/18 07:14 PM
1

I'm editing this because I found the source for that victimization number (NiSVS)- it should not be assumed that the perpetrators of sexual violence against lesbians are female - around 85% are men.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/18 06:55 PM
2

"casual sex" has little to do with "breeding" anyway, the most reproductively successful men aren't anything like TRP alphas.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/18 04:04 PM
2

if her costs are y, and what he puts in is less than y, it doesn't matter why he puts in less than y, or why men on average put in less than y, only the fact that they do. I'm not just talking money costs. most of the most important costs aren't money. nothing preventing a poor guy from being reproductively cooperative in principle.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/18 05:25 AM
7

and that's why men are less in demand than women. they cannot expect equal attention with attitudes like that.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/18 01:49 AM
3

rich men are rare, if we're talking "women" and "men" we're talking the typical case. Anyway, rich men have plenty of partner choice, which is what OP is whining about.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/18 01:39 AM
2

not if the kid's 2 and the guy just randomly walked. reproductively successful women have children. not having children is as much a solution for them as not having sex would be for men.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/18 01:32 AM
2

wealthy men are a small fraction of men, and sometimes go to great effort to screw over their partners.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/18 01:01 AM
4

the relevant risk is not the unwanted pregnancy, but the chance of being unsupported in raising a kid. if a woman has a 100% chance of getting rid of a pregnancy but a 5% chance of having her investment in a kid matched or exceeded, only that 5% matters.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/18 12:49 AM
5

it is far less of a risk than the woman is taking. The cost is huge, covering some part of the cost is also huge, but most guys aren't covering half and so many are covering so much less than half that the value of men in general drops. In a hypothetical environment where men owned robot wombs, anyone they had sex with could use the robot womb, any precautions they took to prevent other people doing that had a failure rate, there were no consequences for people trying to put a baby in there, and…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/18 09:33 PM
6

it is well under half of the full cost of raising the child, on average.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/18 08:41 PM
1

barely over half of single mothers have any kind of child support arrangement, but fewer than half receive (or are due, a ton of child support never gets paid) formal legal child support
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/18 08:34 PM
2

Marrying a single mom is evolutionarily more beneficial than never marrying, so men do it plenty despite the griping. If you go through, I don't know, Sexiest Man Alive lists or whatever, a ton of them have stepchildren, perhaps more than have extra biological children outside of marriage.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/18 08:01 PM
4

it's the majority, actually. https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2016/demo/P60-255.pdf
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/18 07:55 PM
12

women are the sex that get pregnant and bears most of the burden of reproduction. the outcomes for men willing to match their costs of pregnancy and share the burden of reproduction are the only comparables. men whining about casual sex are men looking for an unfair allocation of risk.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/18 07:06 PM
7

it's mostly women that build and maintain men though. they don't spring from the ground fully formed as taxpayers.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/18 01:03 AM
2

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/01/18/theyre-waiting-longer-but-u-s-women-today-more-likely-to-have-children-than-a-decade-ago/
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/18 06:51 PM
1

that's about eggs, not ability to maintain a pregnancy. Post-menopausal woman can still give birth, if that 50 year old froze enough eggs at 30 she can still make a go of things. But 45 years from now I'll bet we'll have artificial gametes and artificial gestation - women will be able to turn money directly into babies without bearing the burden of the messy intermediate steps.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/18 06:31 PM
1

not how markets work.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/18 06:09 PM
22

The baseline prevalence of narcissism is still much higher among men. I don't think any of what you posted is saying otherwise re:narcissism, since it's careful to talk about percentage increases and so on rather than actual prevalence. Percent increase is much more dramatic when the base numbers are low.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/18 06:00 PM
4

it men were actually offering more than women they would have more market power (spoiler, they aren't)
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/18 04:58 PM
1

The problem with older womens eggs is largely chromosomal. They get halted at a certain point in division and restarting can be dicey. But that means the problems are mostly big/obvious if they exist, but some eggs won't have any. So far as general genetic damage goes men of their age contribute way more point mutations to their children, because they're constantly producing sperm.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/18 03:52 PM
1

the biological constraints on having kids at an older age will probably not exist for today's toddlers.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/18 03:42 PM
2

And the more relationships with men end up being about preventing women from having the family they want rather than helping them achieve it, the more women will choose alternate options.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/18 03:38 PM
3

the guys whose porn addiction interferes with their ability to pair up and reproduce aren't going to be a long term problem, because they won't reproduce. future belongs to the people who show up.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/01/18 07:01 PM
2

A fair treatment isn't necessarily an equal treatment. Nobody is brutalizing men's reproductive organs to the point where incontinence is common and sex is painful, but real equality would involve sharing costs like that. Since they aren't shared, fairness demands they be made whole elsewhere.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/01/18 04:41 PM
1

Provider guy can walk as easily as any other guy under your scheme
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/18 07:05 PM
1

Given the costs of kids (in the hundreds of thousands), women are never going to be able to get it up front because men (on average) don't have it up front to give. Your scheme basically dumps all of the costs of kids on women because there is no way to guarantee ahead of the baby being born that it will be supported.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/18 07:01 PM
1

uh, no, you can't just dump a 6 year old at a police station. baby boxes and so on are about feeding the adoption market's demand for unencumbered infants, not about giving the mom an out. barely anyone uses them in any case.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/01/18 08:03 PM
11

it's a lot easier for men to avoid tge costs of raising children than women, and many do.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/01/18 05:31 PM
1

the second part of the sexual revolution (fully disconnecting sex from reproduction) hasn't happened yet. but it's coming. Men should not assume that natural sperm/sex will be needed to reproduce or that women will be time-limited in reproduction all that far into the future.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/01/18 03:22 PM
1

though that is the european past, and other cultures often did have different practices.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/18 04:46 AM
0

depends on the culture. universal marriage cultures make it much more likely that kind of guy would get married.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/18 04:45 AM
1

Castro had maybe 10 or 11 kids, which is when you get down to it fewer than Octomom.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/18 04:19 PM
2

Plenty of papers don't control for everything. Genetic technology has advanced so far over the last decade that people shouldn't be using older papers making primitive projections at all. A lot of genetic assertions from the time period haven't held up to scrutiny, like mutation rate assertions and much of thr identification of clusters with individual guys like Niall of the Nine Hostages. The Genghis Khan identification with the C3 cluster is a lot shakier than people might think. Looking at un…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/18 04:17 PM
2

see my comment on someone's reply to you.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/18 09:32 PM
8

The above isn't entirely accurate (full Y sequences are informative pretty far back) Look up the Galton-Watson process for a simplified math model of Y chromosome extinction. This is really simplified, ignoring a lot of factors like Y chromosomes varying in "effectiveness" (some lines will make better sperm and so on), other selection (like disease resistance, lactose intolerance, so on), family size being somewhat hereditary, sex of children not being fully random, and so on. When comparing wit…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/18 09:31 PM
24

This is like the 80th time I've said this but the persistence over time of uniparental markers says nothing about the actual lived experience of people in the past. The vast majority of men with normal family lives and several children won't have a surviving Y just by the math.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/18 07:27 PM
3

if you want a family, you still need to look for a guy who's making a fair contribution towards children who are half his. being able to sometimes duck pregnancy doesn't change that. stopping pregnancy doesn't make an uncooperative guy suddenly cooperative, it just reduces the cost to you.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/18 04:57 PM
2

the cost or sex is still currently inextricably linked to the cost of pregnancy and childrearing. fairness in an evolutionary sense involves sharing the cost of the whole package.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/18 03:27 PM
4

reproductively successful women still have to go through pregnancy. so no, it's not balanced out.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/18 03:19 PM
1

eh, they tend to have few non-marital children, and a lot of them raised stepchildren.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/18 01:54 AM
1

largely highly promiscuous marriage-avoidant guys aren't having enough kids to pass on their genes. guys who frequently pair up with different women to have kids can do well, but even so it's rare.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/18 04:44 PM
2

that part is riskier for women as the longer lived partner than the reverse
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/18 01:11 AM
8

a partner who would stay with or without marriage should have no problem getting married. guys who are sufficiently attracted to the woman have no problem with marriage.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/18 05:35 PM
1

refugees are also much shorter than Europeans on average.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/18 04:13 PM
1

evolutionarily it's better than never marrying
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/18 02:18 AM
1

not really when you get down to it.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/18 07:00 PM
1

married men have higher reproductive success than never married men. sex frequency (when using birth control) and number of sex partners don't have a lot to do with reproductive success. guys maximizing for sex frequency and #partners at the expense of reproductive success are selected against
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/18 04:41 PM
2

nah. high birth rates/low child mortality is unsustainable. only high child mortality kept it going previously. you get the huge youth unemployment crisis seen in the middle east and eventual societal implosion. marriage age is skyrocketing in those countries. total male dominance plus birth control (daesh-style) is also unsustainable because the birth rates are simply too low and the sex ratios get out whack from women preferentially fleeing and men preferentially joining - joining things like …
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/18 03:50 PM
3

uh...no women aren't safer. cultures that posture a lot about protecting women turn on those women in a rage if anything happens to the woman or girl that shows the posturing was bullshit. there's no actual protection involved most of the time, particularly for low status women.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/18 08:31 PM
5

The corollaries to that would be that evolution does not care about how much non-reproductive sex you have, and does not care if you even have sex, so long as you reproduce. The people impregnating 100 women these days are ejaculating into a cup.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/18 07:12 PM
3

"doing costly things" != "doing half or more of the costly things needed to raise a kid"
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/18 05:18 PM
2

it's about the averages of who's doing more. if men were doing more, women would compete for them.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/18 01:09 AM
6

an evolutionarily successful woman doesn't simply need to avoid having children, she also has to have them. Same goes for the men, of course, but they have a much better chance of getting out of the work of raising the children, often try to exercise it, and therefore are the less reliable party which gets fewer sexual opportunities than they want.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/18 12:50 AM
4

it's creating an even moral hazard. women already have to navigate this stuff, men who don't do so equally can't expect equality. the only way to get equality is with an -evolutionarily- even deal where each party is putting an equal amount into the offspring.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/18 12:40 AM
7

eh. kind of a male view. guys who don't fully provide parental care to their children universally and by default can't expect sexual equality. abortion and birth control don't change that.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/18 11:39 PM
8

regardless of a woman's attitude towards sex, sex is -risky-. Looking for guys willing to match the biological work she puts in and extra risks she takes is looking for a position of equality, not inequality. Any guy who's butthurt about that is only out to be a user.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/18 11:17 PM
5

TRP is filled with guys who treat their current partners objectively worse than former partners and claim the result is better for them and they are more attracted to the new partners. I think a lot of this is projection.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/18 06:18 PM
4

eh. I think men are actually more likely to abandon/disconnect from children when they cheat than women though
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/18 06:10 PM
1

no, there are universal marriage cultures where everybody including the kid with downs gets paired up if they survive. Western Europe did not have one of those, and had a significant fraction of adult singles.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/18 04:43 PM
2

nah. Most modern technological advancement came from cultures that married late and choosily, with a large population of never married people and low child mortality. It's called the Western European Marriage Pattern. Other cultures with much higher marriage prevalence did worse.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/18 12:23 AM
2

it's not devaluing, but it is risky. They aren't the same thing.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/18 06:54 PM
1

sex has more risk for women, therefore a guy trying to duck out of sharing in that risk while pretending he will is in the wrong.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/18 06:01 PM
1

eh. there may be an indirect benefit later but there's a direct harm now. assuming the indirect benefit (if it exists - highly promiscuous guys are NOT the top reproducers) cancels out the direct harm in all or even most scenarios is questionable.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/18 06:16 AM
3

oh ffs. dick pics aren't love.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/18 05:03 PM
2

guys aren't forced to cover anywhere near the actual time and money costs of children, either in marriage or outside it. they are tremendously butthurt about having to pay any costs, but they aren't even doing half the work in the majority of cases. Plenty of relationships and marriages exists where the guy is the one bankrupting the couple rather for providing for it. marriage isn't a sex for money trade, it's a reproductive effort for reproductive effort trade.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/18 03:57 PM
3

er, no. unless he wants more kids, and sex frequency is the sole reason he doesn't have more kids, evolutionarily he's not sacrificing anything. "not defecting as much as he wants" isn't the same as "innocent, victimized collaborator"
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/18 03:48 PM
1

I suspect that men with dwarfism are actually more romatically successful than women with dwarfism.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/18 08:40 PM
4

sure, and dudes congratulate each other on not paying while working the same.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/18 06:32 PM
9

dude lust is too temporary to be love. if it goes away the second the guy orgasms, it was never, ever about her.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/18 05:36 PM
1

men are more fundamentally dependent on women than that, they don't spring from the earth as fully formed adults.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/18 04:53 PM
8

the actual equivalents to those sacrifices would be things that men would never do. like never approaching, having sex with, masturbating to, or looking at porn of women significantly younger than or more attractive than them. Men are simply not reliable enough to demand that kind of thing. They wouldn't sign up to be each others low status sex valets, they shouldn't expect that of women. The female imperative is about a 50 50 share of the reproductive energy burden between the sexes, while the …
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/18 03:24 PM
2

yeah, except guys who have casual sex with a lot of women do a remarkably bad job of actually perpetuating their genes.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/18 03:12 PM
1

among guys with kids, guys with one lifetime sexual partner have the most kids by a wide margin. barring sperm donors, perhaps (sperm donation is not a lot like casual sex) chasing casual sex is maladaptive addictive behavior.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/18 12:01 AM
1

"failed alpha" is probably a better term - they're desperately hung up on their own sex drives. naturally beta men are actually monogamous, rather than as a last resort.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/01/18 04:49 PM
2

less than the guys do (that said, I suspect it's bimodal for the guys)
/r/PurplePillDebate01/01/18 01:15 AM
2

er, no, a shy ectomorph isn't necessarily going to be feminine.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/17 10:10 PM
2

I'd lay odds that octomom's ultimate genetic success is better than any 10 RP posters in this thread.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/17 10:05 PM
2

and he has to control the finances :p
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/17 09:55 PM
6

plenty of guys, even in marriage and relationships, are net drains on finances and time overall.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/17 06:04 PM
6

even if people's partners were assigned entirely at random, only a very small minority would have a taller woman.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/17 11:10 PM
2

aka men, despite claiming not to claim about status, care about status
/r/PurplePillDebate27/12/17 06:17 AM
1

if you don't count crime against migrant workers
/r/PurplePillDebate26/12/17 06:26 PM
8

you realize that cultures that thought there was a duty to have sex within marriage compelled procreative sex, right? including compulsion from women. a guy who refuses to have a kid with his wife on her demand is just as much in violation of those historic norms.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/12/17 06:22 PM
4

careers are often chosen over marriage as is. not going to get any women with options choosing marriage if all it is is badly paid, low status domestic work
/r/PurplePillDebate26/12/17 05:48 PM
1

baseline biological investment between the sexes is unequal, so a "match" involves the male putting in extra to compensate for that.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/12/17 07:01 AM
6

guys with serious deficits elsewhere are not necessarily going to make that up with looks. most guys who complain about this subject have those serious deficits.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/12/17 05:54 PM
3

eh. the female imperative is more cooperative than the male one. that's why it wins.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/12/17 12:54 AM
1

only holding a man to the basics is supporting a situation where he invests differently in different children.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/17 10:47 PM
3

Guys aren't okay with it the other way around. I've seen multiple TRP posts angry at stuff along the lines of mom wearing designer labels and the kid wearing thrift shop stuff, or spending a lot of energy on going out while the kid looks poor. They feel entitled to a level of effort from women they aren't willing to provide. If a man's kid is being raised in a household where the kid has a low standard of living and the stepsiblings are lavishly provided for and get all of mom's attention that'd…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/17 09:32 PM
1

child support should work like other obligations. if someone has covered for you that person should be reimbursed
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/17 09:26 PM
3

what's hilarious to me about the child support argument is that TRPers will happily agree that men abandoning babies and forcing the mother to do far more than her fair share is deliberate male strategy in other contexts. having a child you do not support is evolutionarily free-riding off the other partner. enforcing cooperative parenting aligns everyone's incentives in a way other options don't.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/17 05:31 PM
5

male bodies create gametes and choose to inject them into people
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/17 05:24 PM
5

plenty of stories about guys with this dynamic on things like the justnomil subreddit something I want to highlight - women who do this are being doormats. this is the negative side of 'submissive' behavior - creating problems for yourself and your partner by helping other people hurt them and you. TRP's conception of the innocent, oppressed doormat is a guy who is infinitely helpful and does whatever his partner wants - while the actual experience is often of a guy who causes a lot of problems …
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/17 12:10 AM
2

17:1 is about persistence of uniparental lineages, not direct reproductive success, number of children, or number of sex partners. I would also heavily discount older genetic work on this subject in general, the data sets are much better now and a lot of early assertions have not panned out.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/17 03:35 PM
9

this is because women on average are the higher investing parent, and guys try to duck their fair share.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/17 08:03 PM
1

though women largely die alone anyway. men don't live long enough for that not to be the case.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/17 04:25 PM
1

the people who do want kids will be the ones contributing to the next generation so that's unlikely to be an issue. natural selection takes care of this.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/17 04:22 PM
1

the average child support check probably just covers marginal housing costs for having another room.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/17 10:44 PM
6

in a situation where a man and women have to make an agreement before sex that any child would not be supported by the man, there is no possible way to trick the man.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/17 05:18 PM
2

eh. a situation where women have no way to guarantee the father will support his child prior to conception is weaponizing support. guys want to benefit from ambiguity over whether they'd abandon the woman prior to sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/17 05:16 PM
3

do all your reproduction artificially. with a frozen embryo, rights are equal.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/17 05:13 PM
3

before conception is the only even potentially workable way.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/17 05:12 PM
3

lots of "laughing at" women in this thread. both sexes face social consequences from reporting. plenty of women do not report their rapes for the same reason men don't.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/17 08:23 PM
2

Do you think men who get raped always report it ASAP and cooperate fully with any investigation?
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/17 06:37 PM
3

aka they want consistent performance from women (mostly around sex, emotional labor, physical appearance) while not having any pressure to perform in return.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/17 04:07 PM
12

eh, I think it hits on a lot of topics that come up frequently (or have in the past). Like socialized provision of sex, the idea that if men get to have sex with women when the women are very young then the men will be loyal to them, the ridiculous idea that "submissiveness" or pairing up with men young leads to good outcomes for women...
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/17 04:09 AM
1

single mothers outnumber single fathers by like 9:1. so no.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/17 03:38 AM
2

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4501914/ women in harems were frequently murdered for political reasons, on the death of their partner, or due to internal rivalries. they had low reproductive success overall due to limited conception opportunities and high child mortality. their children were often also murdered in various succession struggles. a king with 100 sons is not also going to support 100 brothers, 100 uncles, thousands of cousins and so on... Ancient societies had far more…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/17 09:42 PM
3

it's really quite common for noncustodial parents (most of whom are dads) to not contribute much of anything or token amounts. https://www.google.com/amp/s/fivethirtyeight.com/features/are-moms-less-likely-than-dads-to-pay-child-support/amp/?espv=1 some of them also do stuff like rape their kids for sexual gratification.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/17 09:24 PM
2

being in a harem reproductively hurts a woman on average - they're not being "brought more". it's more an exercise of male power on the male end and more about employment and family support than sex on the female end. what it comes down evolutionarily is - are kids more likely to die if mom abandons them vs. dad. it's mom. mom is more valuable.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/17 08:31 PM
7

men may think their subjective cost is high, but largely they're not taking the physical hit of pregnancy, they're not doing the day to day of keeping the kid alive, tons don't contribute financially....there are guys that give 110%, there are guys who give 0, there are guys that do worse than nothing - the average isn't in men's favor.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/17 06:46 PM
11

Her womb and body don't have to be a slave to him either.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/17 05:06 PM
5

not really in this situation. first to file for child support generally has an advantage.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/17 05:04 PM
7

the simultaneous TRP belief that cheating by women is the automatic deathknell of a relationship AND that guys commonly and unwittingly raise other mens' children is pretty funny when you think about it.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/17 05:01 PM
8

if men brought greater value to relationships than women, human social dynamics would be very different. evolutionarily, women bring greater value as the higher investment and thus more reliable partner. that makes them vulnerable to abuse.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/17 04:53 PM
7

on an evolutionary math level, they're basically the same.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/17 04:43 PM
8

he can pay for his own gestation and childcare and have a kid 100% guaranteed to be his then then (perfectly possible today).
/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/17 04:38 PM
6

the woman being less than 100% reproductively cooperative is the same as the man being less that 100% cooperative. and the second happens more frequently. spending lots of time and effort chasing other women without success is also being reproductively uncooperative.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/17 04:32 PM
5

your numbers and interpretation are still wrong on this, because of the different percentages of "relationships" in the various communities. A guy with 200 partners is going to have "broken up" with the vast majority of them, but you're not counting that kind of interaction as a breakup.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/17 04:29 PM
3

not really. on an evolutionary level, they're both mating/reproductive effort tradeoffs. a guy spending effort on cheating is not spending that effort on his partner and offspring and making her spend extra. making him spend extra effort isn't different. "lying about paternity doubt" is the same as "lying about cheating" and guys certainly do a lot of that. guys largely don't match womens' investment in children anyway, so their moral basis for whining is pretty low.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/17 04:23 PM
8

see: dudes flipping out about any money going to supporting their kids after divorce
/r/PurplePillDebate13/12/17 11:11 PM
1

largely, if it's impossible for a guy to be the father, the guy knows this already. Mom might have more information than dad, but it's not like if there's doubt that she knows for sure without a test either.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/12/17 11:03 PM
12

bullshit. many very conservative countries like egypt, india with strong traditional norms have terrible street harassment issues - more so than the west.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/12/17 11:35 PM
1

misleading outdated clickbait about uniparental lineages "had surviving y/mtdna lineage" != reproduced. Most of the people without surving Y/mtdna lineages had normal romantic lives and families.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/12/17 03:47 PM
2

I'm mostly thinking of the university context here - a saudi female foreign student wearing abaya might weird out the locals but is likely to attract aggressive sexual harrassment from male students from similar cultures even when both are in the west.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/17 10:21 PM
1

Take two people - 18 year old Bob and 18 year old Alice who split up due to war. My suspicion is that (assuming no severe injuries) Alice is more likely to remain perpetually single and chaste for the rest of her life if Bob dies than Bob if Alice dies (though it is unlikely for both), and Bob is ALSO more likely to cheat on Alice while separated than the reverse, even if they are married.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/17 06:27 PM
2

"some men don't harass women in a hijab" in no way equals "women in a hijab don't get harassed" http://muslimgirl.com/20378/hijab-sexual-harassment-nothing-dress-codes/ http://www.womensmediacenter.com/women-under-siege/the-myth-of-how-the-hijab-protects-women-against-sexual-assault
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/17 05:47 PM
11

iirc he spent his first marriage hassling the mother of his five children to dye her hair and act like a trophy wife.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/17 05:41 PM
8

hijabs work pretty well to deter western male attention and not at all against sexual harrassment from men from their own cultures. Plenty of countries where Islamic dress in normative have horrific street harassment problems.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/17 04:25 PM
5

Women back in the day disliked their spouses more, thought women put way more into marriage than men, and, to a surprising degree, would rather have been men. https://www.google.com/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/10/modern-women-happier-to-be-female-than-seventy-years-ago-accordi/amp/?espv=1
/r/PurplePillDebate04/12/17 03:54 PM
5

b.s. sexist countries still have marriage crises over economic factors. low child mortality has messed up a lot of systems that only worked because a huge fraction of kids died
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/17 07:42 PM
4

Just because men might go to great lengths doesn't mean any of those lengths actually benefit the women - often that effort is dedicated to things that are actually harmful to the woman's interests, and getting less interest as she ages makes life less of a minefield because fewer people are spending vast amounts of effort to screw her over.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/17 05:08 PM
2

well, there was this one time I ran into a male coworker in a bar, who was dead drunk and already on a Grindr date with an Asian community college student half his age...
/r/PurplePillDebate20/11/17 01:18 AM
1

a lot of them are failed polygamists. which is different from and inferior to being monogamous
/r/PurplePillDebate17/11/17 07:37 PM
3

women survive cold/starvation better than men.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/11/17 07:18 PM
1

pretty high mortality for the kid in a world without good infant formula though. there was more hired out wetnursing then but the incentives weren't necessarily aligned to keep the kid alive.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/11/17 06:37 PM
5

ah, but guys like him don't value caregiving sacrifices at all, because it's not about his dick even if it's tremendously costly for her.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/11/17 05:37 PM
2

bull. men and women both have expectations for women in that position.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/11/17 07:30 PM
1

they aren't expecting more of him than would be expected of a female lower earner in a relationship. usually less, actually. the hypocrisy is more on the male side.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/11/17 02:48 PM
15

cheating behavior in men has been shown to be unrelated to how sexually satisfied they are with their partner.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/11/17 03:32 PM
3

a large chunk of european nobility and royalty was german, and the germans had strong laws and customs about equality of birth in marriage. Female nobles were largely not equal in status or power to male nobles.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/11/17 03:31 PM
3

nah, this depends on the guy and most guys want to delay.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/11/17 01:53 AM
5

Men shouldn't date or marry or have sex with women they are not reproductive-cooperation attracted to. Plenty do though.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/11/17 01:52 AM
1

young guys don't have resources, and carry a lot more risk of poverty with them than promise of wealth, at least until they've been out in the adult workforce for a year or two. Aren't a lot of guys who have good careers who want to have kids in their twenties and are willing to make the sacrifices to do so - plenty that want to have the sex now and the babies maaaaybe later but actually not. Or maybe they want a kid but none of the actual work involved.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/11/17 01:46 AM
1

how many times a week, month, or year do you think someone who has one night stands has them? Like, guys here seems to think that if a woman had sex with a guy one hour after meeting him if they were dating they'd be having sex three times a day. while the reality is that woman might not be in the mood to go out and have sex for months, and he was far more convenient than irresistible. I'd think it'd be very rare that a woman would be having sex more "constantly" outside a relationship than in o…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/11/17 01:41 AM
11

if you expect your partner to do all the work of maintaining the relationships with family and friends you should not be shocked that their primary relationship is with the partner.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/11/17 04:39 PM
1

Street harassment, etc. is much worse in places like India or Egypt.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/11/17 09:33 PM
2

personal retirement savings are also a fiction. they're a claim on the productive labor of a future generation.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/11/17 07:42 PM
1

the 1930/1940 to 1970 change was much larger, we are talking about 1970 adults who may not have grown up with electricity or indoor plumbing. That was also an era of increasing as opposed to decreasing homeownership and relatively cheaper family formation.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/11/17 06:38 PM
1

men want benefits from the existence of a next generation (like retirement - all savings are a social fiction) without contribution. Child support is a less than equal contribution, generally speaking.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/11/17 06:24 PM
3

way more people were noticably better off as adults than their household of origin in 1970 than today.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/11/17 04:14 PM
4

it's a rising versus falling living standards thing, imho.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/11/17 02:35 PM
2

Don't think 1970's are a good comparison point - a lot of the delta of happiness since then is about a life experience of rising vs declining living standards. 1925, 1870, 1670, AD 70 might be more interesting.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/11/17 02:11 AM
2

Less than that between short and tall men.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/11/17 10:54 PM
1

Mm, age crime curve peaks pretty early though. Thinning out nearly 5% of guys has to have some effect. There is a pure body size/height advantage for most men, but that's not universal...
/r/PurplePillDebate07/11/17 10:53 PM
3

Adult males as a population have been more pruned by mortality than adult females.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/11/17 03:50 PM
4

they don't want nice in return. or they wouldn't be satisfied with only 'nice', anyway.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/11/17 07:55 PM
2

Children are a lot more likely to be molested in universal marriage India than the West.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/11/17 02:43 PM
1

You're underestimating the risk and overestimating the payoff. The "most desirable quality wise" part of the bell curve is a lot closer to monogamy than you think it is.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/11/17 08:40 PM
1

A member of a polygamous harem has a shortage of reproductive opportunities and is likely to have 1 or no children with high infant mortality (unless she cheats). The system is not designed to maximize her interests. Any children are likely not going to inherit bar an extreme level of scheming on her part. They are very likely to be killed when they transition from disposable son of dude to despised half brother of dude or unwanted scion of previous dynasty. Polygamous kingships don't tolerate u…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/11/17 04:19 PM
2

what's valuable to a woman's genes is the cooperation. Harem member #32 had shitty reproductive success historically. The average HB9 in a TRP field report gains nothing from it at best. A situation where older females give you more genetic copies is normal in animals, btw, including chimps. Only male investment in humans skews that a bit - and without the investment the younger woman largely better off not mating with a guy. Attraction from uncooperative males can bring huge negatives to a woma…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/11/17 01:31 AM
2

prettiness, youth, and submissiveness are traits men want to exploit. Traits that are valuable and indicative of a high value women are ones that are good at making men cooperate rather than defect, which are not the same. Women who marry later get higher household income, women who are less pretty than the prettiest women have more kids, and not a damn one of the happy and secure older women I know is in the least bit submissive or got there by being that way.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/11/17 07:35 PM
2

That's just another way of saying "men are dicks to women who treat them well". Lots of men who think they are soooo caring and sacrificing and helpful are nothing of the sort, just self-deluded.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/11/17 06:29 PM
4

An alpha chimp male is sometimes an alpha and sometimes a beta over the course of his life, and spends much more time as a beta than an alpha. After aging out of being an alpha in his mid twenties he is submissive to younger males. Chimps males, incidentally, are attracted to older females and not attracted to younger ones. Females, if not violently prevented, will mate indiscriminately. There are numerous other behavioral differences.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/11/17 05:11 PM
3

chimp alphas were betas and become betas. alpha is a very temporary position and not an inborn status.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/11/17 05:02 PM
2

I've dated a guy kind of like that, and I've never dated a guy who meets the TRP behavioral definition of alpha. But your description is not of a beta. TRPs imagine betas as 80% of men, so the typical "beta" must be close to the population average on all traits. 7% of men have social anxiety... it's not a trait that defines 80% of the population. The description of your "not beta" guy could easily be of a guy in the bottom 80%.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/11/17 04:34 PM
2

The problem is usually more wastefulness and adding extra and unnecessary vulnerability to being fucked over to the woman's life than altruism. She is being harmed by the behavior, not helped. TRPers would call a guy who bought a dishwasher for every woman he met "too altruistic and giving" while easily seeing the problem if they had a wife who used marital funds to buy every man she met a dishwasher. Women value reproductively cooperative behavior. But that's way harder than flowers.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/17 08:58 PM
1

The Chinese are shorter than their ancestors. Short folk have an advantage when there's nutritional stress, and shorter height was selected for in the past in parts of China.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/17 03:11 AM
2

Yep. 5'10" better than either though.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/17 03:08 AM
11

Not enormously high numbers. I'm sure I've seen guys on here wailing about what a vast injustice it is thet they can't have 10 partners per month. Seems to mostly boil down to "women marry about every third guy they date".
/r/PurplePillDebate30/10/17 05:39 PM
2

infrequent severe punishment isn't enough when the bad behavior is common. society appropriately reacts occaisionally when enough social firepower is brought to bear and underreacts constantly.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/10/17 11:51 PM
3

If a woman is 5'7", plus or minus a shade, the 6' man /is/ her height equivalent, because on average their sons would be the same height as dad. A 5'7" man would not be her height equivalent because genetically he'd be subtracting height.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 06:24 PM
8

I don't think boring is the issue for most autistic guys. They largely create a lot of negative externalities for their partners by being picky and socially incompetent. Most women don't want to be a social seeing eye dog or deal with meltdowns and if they're made to do so their experience of the guy isn't that he's 'nice'.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/17 05:25 PM
8

more than 50% of resources directed to children goes to men, since over 50% of children are male
/r/PurplePillDebate22/10/17 06:53 PM
9

there's nothing magical about marriage that prevents women from being poor with kids she needs to look after. Plenty of women are impoverished by their husbands. In historic periods with similar economic growth rates there was way more child poverty.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/10/17 04:58 PM
2

most false rape allegations aren't actually "aimed" at anyone.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/10/17 08:16 PM
3

the women aren't having sex with the sex workers though, they're exposed to the men who are paying for sex. My understanding is that men who pay for sex are indeed more likely to have STDs
/r/PurplePillDebate20/10/17 05:26 AM
4

generally I find TRP understanding of evolutionary dynamics and the mechanics of reproduction terrible. 50 men and 50 women will outreproduce 1 man and 100 women under pretty much all circumstances, for instance, and it wouldn't be close. The monomaniacal obsession with sex frequency and number of sexual partners as if those things make reproductive success a given is pretty stupid. "I like this therefore it must be good for me". When TRPers recognize why, reproductive success-wise, they would b…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/10/17 03:06 PM
2

https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2012/06/02/ethnographic-surprises-i-the-child-bride/ not unknown in herders
/r/PurplePillDebate19/10/17 02:49 PM
2

or that's what she's attracted to.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/10/17 05:37 PM
1

A reasonable percentage of childless men are infertile. Most others could have had children if they made it a priority (including not delaying trying to concieve within their relationships and being willing to do half the caretaking work). I have minimal sympathy for men who want children but want all of the associated inconveniences to fall on their partner - and they're pretty common.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/10/17 05:34 PM
3

He used a lot of pretexts, including faking injury and official business. He's a lot more "guy next door" than "model"...I don't see where people calling him super attractive are coming from.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/10/17 04:28 PM
1

I believe the second study was testing the donors who were actually selected and determining what traits they had. The donors and the recipients were able to interact online before the donation.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/10/17 07:26 PM
2

men largely do not have children with women they are not in some way supporting or expensively courting, whether as housewife, servant, slave, employee, mistress, person they give expensive gifts to on a regular basis... (not prostitutes, since they are largely infertile). Extra partners mess up marital fertility by reducing conception opportunities and bringing STDs home (causing infertility). Excess child death is also a huge factor, child survival being the major selective pressure on humans …
/r/PurplePillDebate12/10/17 04:21 AM
1

guy with 2 wives > guy with 1 wife> guy with 1 wife and 5 other partners > guy with no wives and 200 partners. on average.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/10/17 08:54 PM
2

The next door neighbor wouldn't match to a man with the same surname from the same home village the ancestor left 400 years ago who emigrated 200 years later to a place 2000 miles away. You can get pretty specific if you have both the records and the genes and enough living relatives. plenty of studies get rates under 1% for western populations https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4611233/#!po=8.75000 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22688803 are some. Since a fair amount of 'nonpater…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/10/17 07:04 PM
1

men get a large increase in fertility per extra wife and a decrease in fertility for extra sex partner after 1 on average, actually.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/10/17 04:13 PM
3

I do Y-DNA genealogy. You are wildly overestimating nonpaternity among the prolific and successful. Even the average pedigree would have less nonpaternity than that by nearly half, monogamous-strategy pedigrees much less. Many of my relevent lines are genetically proven going back to the adoption of surnames.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/10/17 03:36 PM
2

I have documentation of their legitimate descendants, in several cases backed up by the DNA.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/10/17 01:55 PM
3

german involuntary nonpaternity is less than 1%. it's reasonable to punish male defection when female cooperation is near-universal.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/10/17 11:04 PM
3

men with one lifetime sexual partner do the best reproductively in the modern context, and not badly historically either. I suspect a number of my monogamous peasant ancestors from 300 years ago outbred the Ottoman harem over the same timeframe.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/10/17 10:55 PM
3

a community that frequently abandons its reproducing members will be at a competitive disadvantage versus one that doesn't. Men don't exist in a vacuum of perfectly cooperative people who never ever punish them for defecting on their responsibilities.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/10/17 09:29 PM
2

nah, men increase their fertility through multiple marriage, not promiscuity.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/10/17 09:02 PM
3

most forced marriages were forced by the woman's family, not random violent interlopers. women historically did not recieve meaningful loyalty from their family members. The "war husband" is more disloyal than the "war bride", since he had a choice about it, the birth family who refuses to accept the runaway from a forced marriage is more disloyal than the woman forced.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/10/17 05:25 PM
5

i.e. men are alpha widows seriously, their actions are more relevent than their internal emotional state.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/10/17 05:21 PM
3

The vast majority of involuntary marriages throughout history involved the woman's family forcing things, not an invader. In many cases women never recieved any loyalty from their birth community that should rightly have been returned.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/10/17 05:06 PM
5

isn't thus an anti "alpha widow" argument? By this logic, guys are the real alpha widows, but somehow this is supposed to make them more morally advanced or something. Male actions matter here, not their emotional hangups.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/10/17 04:59 PM
14

men remarry and start dating and having sex way faster after bereavement... swinging a lot harder than their female compatriots
/r/PurplePillDebate10/10/17 03:30 PM
1

you understand 4 weeks is the time since last menstrual period, so only 2 weeks after conception? You understand that you are just barely even going to get a positive pregnancy test at that point?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/10/17 11:03 PM
2

the lining detached fron the woman isn't going to be providing sustenance. an early fetus bled out isn't going to be viable. removing a fetus without interrupting its blood supply or killing it will never be anywhere close to as easy as an abortion
/r/PurplePillDebate09/10/17 10:54 PM
3

it would have to be more invasive than an abortion though. that's just biology.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/10/17 03:10 PM
2

Artifical wombs could well happen, but they're much more likely to be used for IVF kids. Any transfer of a fetus from a woman to a artificial womb post implantation would be much more complex than an abortion.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/10/17 03:09 PM
1

It would be much, much easier to abort than transfer to an artificial womb in any timeframe after a positive pregnancy test. Babies aren't just floating detached in there.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/10/17 03:07 PM
3

ratio of x diversity to autosomal diversity https://scitechdaily.com/scientists-agree-that-classifying-humans-as-monogamous-or-polygamous-is-difficult/amp/
/r/PurplePillDebate06/10/17 09:15 PM
3

your imaginary fantasy genghis , sure. iirc, one of the real wives of genghis openly thought he was gross. he gets chewed out by women a certain amount in the secret history of the mongols.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/10/17 07:49 PM
4

15 year old research, from the Seven Daughters of Eve era where there was loads of crap going around. We have much better data now. By your logic we'd have no Neanderthal DNA, because neither Neanderthal men nor Neanderthal women 'reproduced' looking at uniparental lineages. Back in the research time frame you're citing, people made arguments like that based on not seeing any uniparental lineages. e.g. https://genomebiology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/gb-2008-9-2-206 Was there polygamy in…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/10/17 07:44 PM
5

Y chomosomes are basically meaningless in determining what the lives of our ancestors were actually like because the vast majority of normal men with normal sex lives have their Y lines die out. Even polygamous kings with highly abnormal sex lives like Henry VIII have their Y lines die out. 17:1 ratio of surviving uniparental lineages is not the same as only one out of every 17 men gets to reproduce. Selection has an impact, random chance has an impact, longer male generation time has an impact,…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/10/17 07:18 PM
1

many TRPers have no concept of selection outside of sex. Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA was entirely displaced by human mitochondrial DNA in the distant past. This doesn't necessarily imply a human matriarchy conquering the Neanderthals. The human mtDNA was likely just better at its function. Y chromosomes are also functional and vary in quality. If equal numbers of otherwise identical groups A and B mate randomly with each other, and group A has an Rh+ blood type and group B is Rh-, it is very l…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/09/17 05:11 PM
2

nah, male enhanced fertility comes through multiple marriage (simultaneous or consecutive), not indiscriminate promiscuity. even back in the day. finding someone to have sex with was not anywhere near the most serious evolutionary filter historically
/r/PurplePillDebate25/09/17 06:50 PM
3

basically what it comes down to is that TRP is optimizing for sex, which is not evolutionary success (and even historically sex and evolutionary success are not remotely equivalent). They are largely not evolutionary successful (say 4+ kids), those that are got there through different approaches, and TRP is likely to make them less evolutionarily successful rather than more so.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/17 04:56 PM
1

many men are "small or large negative value" rather than "small or large positive value"
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/17 04:18 PM
3

TRP is an evolutionarily unsuccessful life strategy by basically any metric. The "evopsych" choices they expect women to make are also completely against their evolutionary self-interest.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/17 03:38 PM
6

most of the cost of the kid is in housing
/r/PurplePillDebate21/09/17 06:36 PM
1

in a state of nature, he's also much more likely to have his children, partners, partners of his partners and rivals kill him and/or each other.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/09/17 08:52 PM
8

men with feminine strengths do fine. men who simply lack masculinity may not, but lacking masculinity isn't the same as being feminine. Women who lack feminine strengths, particularly those who have a hard time navigating social situations and networks can also do quite badly and are more likely to be at risk of opposite sex violence. Women who have masculine strengths without other deficits do fine.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/09/17 04:38 PM
1

all races are modern. Some of the distinctive features of African populations didn't exist in their ancestors and are relatively new. There's been a ton of population replacement in Africa by Africans as well. Bantu migration, etc.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/09/17 04:26 PM
1

https://www.thecut.com/2013/05/when-men-sabotage-birth-control.html 15-16% is pretty common. More about sex and control than maximizing children though.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/09/17 03:17 PM
1

given sperm donor shortages in countries where it's unpaid, not really, or at least not really when sex and control aren't involved.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/09/17 03:02 PM
2

even by your logic, people of equal smv are pairing up to have relationships and raise children, which is the equal investment point. one night stands and so on involve unequal investment and risk
/r/PurplePillDebate19/09/17 05:21 PM
1

If a man has 2 kids, he has a 25% chance of not passing down his Y. So he's 'not reproduced' in an analysis looking at uniparental lineages. By the Ys, there's no difference between Henry VIII and a kissless virgin. Same for a woman and mtDNA. In addition, both mtDNA and YDNA are functional. Selection on their biological function occurs independently of anything their carriers do. Human mtDNA completely replaced Neanderthal mtDNA in the past for this reason. I haven't found any TRPers whatsoever…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/09/17 03:02 AM
5

it's obvious you've never done actual genealogy
/r/PurplePillDebate18/09/17 06:41 PM
5

even men who want to take care of women aren't always successful at it. men also get sick and die sooner than women, demanding caregiving and leaving their spouses impoverished in old age... while often abandoning a sick spouse themselves.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/09/17 04:05 PM
5

50s living standards were not historically normal
/r/PurplePillDebate16/09/17 09:46 PM
2

Heh. I have a genuinely nice guy. Enough so that other women favorably comment on it. You really want nice to be intent, but it's effect. You cannot be nice in a vacuum, without considering and understanding the other person's desires and needs.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/09/17 07:09 PM
4

eh. nice is a positive trait, not an absence of negative traits. a hardcore gamer is more likely to lack de minimus real world social competence (necessary to understand the needs and communication of his partner, and have reasonable boundaries and respect the reasonable boundaries of others) and is likely to be less helpful. glancing over a couple papers, gaming, particularly compulsive gaming is linked to low agreeableness.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/09/17 03:50 PM
17

Their data series starts around 1970, which is not exactly a neutral start point - after a long period of unprecedented growth. Would be more interesting if there was also data for a century or more before that. Women were unhappy enough in the past to pass Prohibition, for instance. I think rising vs falling living standards has a lot to do with this.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/17 02:31 PM
3

heh. There is totally a part in the secret history of the mongols where Genghis the conqueror gets told off by his mom and slinks off.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/09/17 10:37 PM
3

it's lying with statistics by only considering a comparatively small fraction of the gay male demographic to a larger fraction of lesbians.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/09/17 06:54 PM
1

Yeah, they create high externalities.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/09/17 05:16 PM
10

Non-TRPers, generally.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/09/17 08:12 PM
12

people who would make bad fathers not being dads is the opposite of a crisis.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/09/17 06:57 PM
3

plenty of people are actually interested in having children
/r/PurplePillDebate11/09/17 05:20 AM
6

It's bad science given it's from 2007, almost certainly based on mtDNA/yDNA (not evolutionarily neutral, the Neanderthal mtDNA pool was completely replaced at one point) and we know a lot more now. Recent autosomal research shows a much lower skew, In addtion, much of the skew is due to male choice rather than female oppression of males or whatever - not much is stopping anyone from being a Duggar other than prioritizing having children, which most don't do. Consider child mortality as well. His…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/17 03:19 PM
3

yeah, I agree.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/09/17 09:16 PM
2

Cost of starting and housing a family much more relevent than median income here.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/09/17 08:37 PM
2

Marriage subsequent to conception was pretty normal historically.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/17 07:34 PM
1

TRP spends a lot of time arguing in other contexts that that's all men want.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/17 04:36 PM
2

Yeah, but that happens before pregnancy. What the men here desperately want is to abandon existing pregnancies.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/17 04:31 PM
1

Pay for donor eggs and surrogacy. Done. All the reproductive rights you want.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/17 04:29 PM
1

LPS environment women bears: cost of birth control cost of pregnancy testing early pregnancy symptoms cost of tracking down male partner and/or: cost of abortion possible time off work, multiple appointments and travel costs to get abortion physical and hormonal effects of abortion while men bear no costs at all.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/17 04:24 PM
1

In a LPS environment men are much more free than women with no responsibility for anything.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/17 04:15 PM
3

because sex is not consent to the chance of personally getting pregnant for men true fairness involves compensating for the biological disadvantages of women here
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/17 02:22 AM
3

No you don't. Ovaries shut down, not the uterus.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/09/17 03:13 PM
4

Comes up all the time in active shooter training. It's generally obvious in videos of sudden violent events.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/08/17 04:37 PM
4

https://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/prison/report5.html#_1_31
/r/PurplePillDebate29/08/17 02:37 AM
34

The behavior is universal, it's not exclusive to women. Having read a bunch of prison rape testimonies, men often do not explicitly say no to extremely unwelcome sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/08/17 01:42 AM
1

It was a stronger effect in the 50s than later. Traditionalism plus low mortality is more dysgenic than women's lib.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/08/17 02:47 PM
2

It's much more just than having one side have most of the power and none of the responsibility or accountability.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/08/17 11:38 PM
2

Generational transfers go both ways. All retirement is a transfer from the younger generation.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/08/17 11:36 PM
5

Yeah, arranged marriage societies also have high rates of spousal abuse. It's men, not a few men.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/08/17 06:50 PM
2

Miscarriage, abortion, and abortion drugs cause major hormonal disruption. Time off work is often required.Changes to a woman's body in childbirth are permanent.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/08/17 05:48 PM
2

Evolutionary reasons. It's a reaction to high infertility (birth control). You also see this in regions where the infertility is natural, like the Africa infertility belt.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/08/17 03:53 PM
4

Should have to reimburse for earlier costs too.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/08/17 02:49 PM
4

Men have that right towards embryos that are not in womens' bodies (e.g. frozen ones)
/r/PurplePillDebate23/08/17 02:45 PM
2

eh. men are not offering some things that used to be expected in a relationship as well, mostly children in proportion to sex drive.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/17 07:55 PM
1

The trp idea of alpha matches chimps badly too, because alpha status is pretty temporary in chimps... the average one is alpha for maybe a year or two in his early twenties and then spends the rest of his life making submission displays to other males.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/17 07:02 PM
2

In the modern context, a woman who is marrying as a virgin probably has the upper hand in the power balance of the relationship.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/17 09:52 PM
3

https://www.quora.com/What-percent-of-gay-men-in-the-US-are-in-a-long-term-relationship-and-how-does-this-compare-to-the-general-population
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/17 12:18 AM
5

Most false reports of rape aren't accusing a specific individual, in my experience.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/17 11:14 PM
5

2/3 of same sex marriages are lesbians, while there are more gay men than lesbians.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/17 03:39 PM
8

A gay men with 500 lifetime sex partners does not have 500 simultaneous relationships.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/17 02:53 PM
9

A much larger percentage of lesbians get into formal relationships, so that's not an apples to apples comparison. Gay people go through more partners, so they are not more likely to stay with any given sex partner.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/17 12:53 PM
1

What sex do you think 911 dispatchers usually are?
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/17 06:22 AM
1

On a reproductive level women are more cooperative than men, which is why they live longer (the grandmother effect). Cooperation in human relationships isn't about coddling a guy's ego or penis, it's about the kids and reproductive success.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/17 11:11 PM
5

there are incredibly costly ways women love men that men don't give much of a crap about. and plenty of men in relationships who don't care about their spouse's needs.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/17 06:52 AM
4

Even chimps don't have 'always alpha'. Former alphas transition into being subordinate males, and 'alpha' is a very short percentage of a male's lifespan.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/08/17 12:15 AM
1

Except there are more than 100 young men for every 100 young women
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/17 07:01 PM
2

This is blazingly untrue. See the TRPer rage at considering options that have "sex worker" or "single stay at home mom" as their job.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/17 05:09 PM
2

If he'd marry the 9 but try to pressure the 5 into an abortion, yes he is.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/17 04:14 PM
3

For men, you have to look at reproductive investment rather than 'would bang if no consequences'. And men are not scattershot about reproductive investment.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/17 04:13 PM
2

Men are significantly taller than women. If people were randomly assigned partners, 90% of the time the man would still be taller.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/17 04:12 PM
2

Doesn't have own place, doesn't want kids... of course he'll be screened out by quality women based on those things. Intelligent women in particular. He needs to think more about why the partner he'd want would want what he's offering.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/17 04:06 PM
2

Some guys don't want to contribute anything except money.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/17 02:24 PM
7

Even the Saudis aren't claiming it's healthy anymore. http://gulfbusiness.com/saudi-shoura-members-call-end-child-marriage/
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/17 01:56 PM
3

No.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/17 07:41 PM
2

Western Europe did not have a universal marriage culture. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_European_marriage_pattern
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/17 08:34 PM
2

This graph has GSS data : https://jaymans.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/numwomen-m.png GSS=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Social_Survey
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/17 08:10 PM
4

There's a reason I'm saying 100 years rather than 50. The 1950s were historically aberrant, not representative.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/17 07:33 PM
7

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0049089X16304896?via%3Dihub Partners are more likely to end the relationship if their partner cheats than if they cheat, and there are no sex differences in this behavior.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/17 07:27 PM
2

Correct, at least according to the first chart I looked at, although it only went to 2012. 1917 had more inequality. Sex partner distribution is flatter now by many measures than it was then. Mathematically speaking. People who think otherwise are, mm, more feels-based than reality based on the subject.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/17 05:52 PM
6

Sexual inequality has decreased, though, in that a smaller percentage of men are lifetime celibates than 100 years ago, and men have significantly more lifetime sex partners.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/17 04:22 PM
10

It's not just STDs. Women and their kids are materially worse off when men fool around, because men nearly always divert resources to other women and kids they have. Socially, having a shitty cheating husband or dad is costly. It also lowers fertility within the relationship.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/17 03:35 PM
5

Doesn't reflect what's actually going on. Monogamous men outreproduce promiscuous non-marrying men and that hasn't changed.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/17 03:15 PM
3

Why do you think sexual inequality is increasing? I'll have to find my source, but I'm pretty sure by the GSS that the distribution of sex partners and children have both moved in favorable directions for the average man in the last 100+ years.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/17 01:21 PM
9

In addition, sex frequency in marriage isn't correlated with male sexual misbehavior within marriage so being a more enthusiastic sex partner would not actually accomplish anything.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/17 09:29 PM
11

Men commonly fantasize about both being raped and raping.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/17 05:25 PM
6

child support rarely covers even the additional rent cost of a child's room
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/17 07:19 PM
1

The increased proportion of single motherhood is the predictable outcome of decreased and unreliable fertility inside relationships and marriage. You see this happen in cultures with a lot of natural infertility too.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/17 05:42 PM
4

The one guy that most set off the creepdar of women around me subsequently robbed a bank.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/17 06:20 AM
3

http://www.thehistoryblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/flowchart.png
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/17 01:18 AM
2

The pro-alpha women are louder on PPD - that doesn't necessarily make them representative. The female-initiated divorces in my extended family have all been because the guy was too alpha.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/07/17 12:07 AM
3

10-20% has been normal in Western Europe for 500 years.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/07/17 01:22 AM
2

Safe haven is more about feeding the adoption market than anything else.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/17 09:55 PM
6

I agree here.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/17 03:36 AM
2

Honestly, there's more complaining about women's standards on this sub than men's, by a long shot. In general, men pair up with single mothers because it's evolutionarily more beneficial to them than being single.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/17 04:01 PM
1

Paternal drinking can cause FAS-like symptoms.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/17 06:14 AM
2

It requires men be honest up front with women. So of course men would hate the idea.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/17 05:52 AM
3

paternity testing is cheap, it's not hard to do it in secret, you can even do it indirectly by discovering a sudden enthusiasm for 23andMe or Ancestry genetic genealogy stuff once the kid's old enough to produce spit. So far as I know 23andMe is legal in France. It'll also pick up weird edge cases that a normal paternity test would choke on - for instance if a guy is a chimera and his sperm doesn't match the rest of his body.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/17 05:09 AM
3

It's much more reasonable than expecting a woman with morning sickness to chase after a guy and serve him paperwork. They are both in the same place, they are doing a thing that might result in a baby, they should both be on the same page about the consequences.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/17 05:00 AM
2

no, because a under these circumstances a guy could always refuse to have sex without an agreement. no way to hurt a responsible guy. only hurts guys who want the women to think they might parent so they get more access to sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/17 04:57 AM
1

eh....basically most women end up widowed if the marriage lasts though. there are advantages to having the guy crash out early rather than having to do end of life care when you're falling apart yourself.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/17 04:25 AM
2

There are a lot of guys in the bottom fifth for personality who are convinced they have a great personality.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/17 04:10 AM
2

Eh. I date older. It's not for money or anything, more that my social group has always been significantly older and there are advantages given my life plan. I must say the women in my family have never had an issue with -needing- to date older... my mother is older than my father, and I can think of 3 women in my family who married same aged men at 50+. My great-grandmother was never without a boyfriend and had a 20 years younger boyfriend who was utterly devoted to her in her 80s.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/17 01:44 AM
3

And the way to make it a joint, fully informed decision is to have the agreement before sex, with the default option being the male responsible for his children without that agreement. Responsible men and women rewarded. Irresponsible and lying men and women don't get what they want. Everyone knows the rules going in. Any other method makes women bear 100% of the downside risk and 50% of the upside risk, because there is no way to guarantee before the fetus is made that it will be supported. Say…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/17 01:34 AM
3

Have the agreement support/no before sex. Only penalizes the irresponsible of both genders. No tracking down guys later. No ambiguity. Done.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/17 01:26 AM
0

Any opt out after sex is guys trying to have their cake and eat it too. They want to benefit from ambiguity when it comes to getting sex, but with the ability to defect if she relies on that ambiguity.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/17 03:20 PM
1

Dads who are drunkards pre-conception can harm the child too. Should alcohol be banned for all potentially fertile males?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/17 03:17 PM
1

Excessive sex drive/mating effort is unattractive in and of itself.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/07/17 06:40 PM
4

Single motherhood has only ever been historically suppressed by sanctions on both sexes. Sanctions on women only don't work.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/07/17 03:03 PM
3

This seems kind of ignorant if the fact that historically the number of these households were just as often kept down by extreme pressure on the man to marry women he impregnated, and premarital conception has never been all that uncommon.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/07/17 02:57 PM
2

Average human generation length throughout history was 26-30
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/17 04:24 PM
1

doesn't matter if it's public or private savings, it depends on the existence of younger workers and thus is a generational transfer. if all younger people died suddenly, retirement would not and could not exist
/r/PurplePillDebate02/07/17 03:42 PM
3

thing about it, is that the guys muttering about paying for the younger generation are happy to have benefited from norms that they themselves be parented and financially supported by the older generation. They're not proposing to compensate their parents for the cost of raising them aaaaand all retirement income flows from the existence of a younger generation. a guy who makes the choice to fuck over the younger generation by abandoning a child, in fairness, should not receive any social securi…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/07/17 12:06 AM
3

ehhh... I would say confrontation avoidance is unsexy, not because it's 'nice', but because of the massive negative externalities it creates for the partner. The typical case would be a confrontation avoiding man letting his family tyrannize his wife or girlfriend by never saying no to them.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/17 11:38 PM
0

in addition, there are more men than women in early adulthood, so there are not enough 50th percentile and up women for all the 50th percentile & up men. Therefore average women dating up a little bit is only to be expected.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/17 12:03 AM
3

Heh. Hitting at something true here. A lot of guys want women to treat them like employers (fake customer service mode on 24/7). While being, objectively speaking, a shitty employer.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/17 08:58 PM
4

Highly promiscuous men average less than 2 kids in the US.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/17 07:57 PM
2

Peak doubling rate around then was something like 35 yrs ish? Which is high, but not as high as individual populations have achieved. The New England Puritans sustained a doubling time of 15 years for a couple generations.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/17 02:18 PM
2

basically this chart: https://ourworldindata.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/World-Poverty-Since-1820-750x535.png
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/17 03:32 PM
1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_European_marriage_pattern Actually, the area without universal marriage was more historically productive.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/17 03:26 PM
1

Some of it is trying to time children in a way that makes marriage about preventing the woman from reproducing rather than a reproductive partnership. A lot of relationships are stable with many children due to sunk costs that aren't stable with 0, or 1. If a woman is literally reproductively better off outside of her marriage, that changes the dynamic. More mobility, interfering with household creation and messing with critical support networks. Less religiosity and less outside pressure to mak…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/17 03:20 PM
2

Talking British/American culture, it was very common for women to be pregnant before marriage.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/17 10:01 PM
1

I'm not sure. I've seen her eat, she doesn't seem to be overtly starving herself.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/17 09:09 PM
13

overestimates the often truly destitute living standards of married women historically, underestimates the living standards of prostitutes, who generally made multiples of the standard male laborer wage. Vastly underestimates the physical impact and risk of childbearing, in complete fantasy mode about normal physical attractiveness of a 35 yr old woman who's had 4 kids in an environment where everybody's got smallpox scars. Fails to consider that men are also not providing things they provided i…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/17 08:55 PM
1

I don't think her body is the issue, it's the social skills and (at this point) age.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/17 06:20 PM
1

Not quite that emaciated.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/17 06:02 PM
3

There's a lot of ridiculousness here... Starting with massively understating the average difference in height between men and women, which is more like 5 inches. The whole 'heels apocalypse' narrative kind of conflicts with the obsession with refugee dating too. Refugee men are not very tall, statistically. Afghan men might even be shorter than northern European women.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/17 04:19 AM
2

All the otherwise childless brother of the dad needs to do is have more than 1 kid for every 1 kid the daughter loses for the math to work out /for dad/. People's genes don't only spread through their descendents. Of course, he would prefer to marry off his brother and -then- back out like he's doing, but he'd demonstrably prefer to screw over his daughter over /not/ marrying off his brother. This is not true in the Indian example, but a large fraction of arranged marriages are in polygamous cul…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/17 12:27 AM
2

I'm pretty much the same (& female)
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/17 09:17 PM
2

They screw over the girls to help male relatives of the father who would otherwise not marry/reproduce. It's not a wash to the girl because she is directly hurt and does not receive as much benefit. She genetically does not care about the 50% of her parents genes that she does not have, while her parents do care. She is twice as related to her children as her nieces and nephews, and four times more related to her children than an uncle's child (as in the example). Having a lower quality brother …
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/17 04:50 PM
3

You are clearly looking for women outside the normal range of female attractiveness if you're getting 100% bots.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/17 04:26 PM
2

You don't get to define both men and women's attraction, lol. She's "useful, available, and can be exploited". He's not actually attracted or he'd want to pairbond. If researchers were looking at another pairbonding species where a male behaved like that (say zebrafinches) they'd say he was not attracted.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/17 04:23 PM
4

If she's laboring too, no he's not. If they're destitute and in debt, which was basically the condition for all but a tiny elite (94% in poverty 200 years ago, 84% in extreme poverty), he's not in any meaningful sense. Actually monogamous men don't care about casual sex, lol.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/17 04:05 PM
5

A daughter is often not the father's only child. They're used as currency to buy wives for male relatives = more grandchildren. A study in one culture: https://www.google.com/amp/s/phys.org/news/2017-03-cross-cousin-marriages-yanomamo-benefit-grandparents.amp Here's an illustration of the dynamic where the dad made a transaction with his daughter that was clearly for his brother's benefit rather than hers. http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2016/08/15/489790411/a-father-vows-to-save-his-da…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/17 03:49 PM
5

He's not viewing that woman as other than a utility then - by the logic you use everywhere else he doesn't actually -really- find her attractive.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/17 03:20 PM
5

Oh, ffs. Women did not get a man who 'paid for their shit'. Most people throughout history lived in truly abject poverty, most women throughout history worked extremely hard. Also, unsuccessfully polygamous men aren't monogamous in any way that matters to women... they're exactly as bad as polygamous men while also being failures. Actually monogamous men exist and are preferred.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/17 03:16 PM
4

Fathers tend to arrange marriages for their daughters that increase the father's genetic success but decrease their daughter's genetic success. They're not selfless, lol.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/17 02:47 PM
8

he's confusing 'the past' with 'the historically unprecedented postwar boom', methinks.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/06/17 09:49 PM
3

Abe & May at least are involuntarily infertile.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/06/17 09:30 PM
2

Evolutionarily speaking, women want reproductively successful children and the full investment of their partners. They do not want partners who are reproductively successful /at their expense/. Lots of manosphere delusions on that point.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/06/17 02:59 PM
12

It really depends on what kind of guys you're chasing. My experience is the opposite of hers.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/06/17 01:29 AM
2

So in your opinion unless women show a -preference- for shorter men they are "not open to dating them"? That's pretty ridiculous.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/06/17 09:12 PM
1

You're wrong. https://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/how-common-is-it-for-a-man-to-be-shorter-than-his-partner/ Again, if women were randomly assigned men, 90% of them would STILL end up with a taller guy.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/06/17 07:29 PM
2

This isn't an overwhelmingly large effect. Women are somewhat less likely to date a guys shorter than them. The thing is men and women have different heights. So if men and women were randomly assigned partners, 90% of women would still be with taller men. In real life, we see maybe 92.5%.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/06/17 05:07 PM
1

lol no no no. The cost of being infertile in a monogamous marriage is too high for women and their partners sleep around too much for them to prevent STDs by being monogamous. Single motherhood to prove fertility before marriage is the adaptation. Desire to raise children (do infant care etc) is going to be way more of a driving factor than contraception. Also willingness to donate gametes nonsexually.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/06/17 03:48 PM
1

Nah, it's not maximized. Not having kids when the time is wrong has been as important as having kids historically. Child spacing is incredibly important! There's a part of Africa called the 'infertility belt' where infertility is massive because of STDs. There are obvious cultural adaptations that have taken place in the last century or two because of this.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/06/17 04:16 PM
6

Women reoffend less, are less likely to be violent criminals, are less likely to be career criminals. Even though imprisoned women are a smaller percentage of the overall population than imprisoned men. Some of the justification for keeping people in jail is incapacitation instead of punishment. Places like Norway are quite light on imprisonment for everyone and can be because reoffense and violence are low.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/06/17 03:54 PM
1

Eh, I would say there's a lot more selective pressure right now towards actively wanting kids than towards avoiding contraception in sex. The disconnect between sex and kids means that most purely sexual motives will eventually be selected away from too.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/06/17 03:15 PM
1

Men who pay for sex have higher STD rates.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/06/17 02:00 AM
1

women who enter marriage as virgins in a non-arranged marriage society tend to be doing so from a position of power.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/17 06:39 PM
3

Depends what you mean by 'prefer'. There are populations that have gotten genetically shorter over time.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/17 04:39 PM
1

Cherry picked start point. It's somewhat dishonest to benchmark to historically atypical prosperity.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/06/17 06:16 PM
2

The (say) 25th percentile man 100 years ago, 500, 1000... was never any good at it.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/06/17 06:06 AM
3

There's never been an adequate supply of "a nice hubby who'll look after their kids with them". TRP radically underestimates how shit men are at being providers now and historically. A lot of women who aren't pairing up now are making rational choices because none of the options add value to her life. In previous eras they'd be shackled to guys who, objectively, would be worse deals than being single.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/06/17 12:27 AM
0

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-39434504 Yeah, not really safer than in the field.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/17 10:31 PM
2

Socially appropriate (not the same as socially dominant). Genuinely interested in conversation and interaction, even with people he is not attracted to (for instance, I bring him somewhere and he'll strike up a conversation about travel with an 80 year old woman). EXCELLENT theory of mind. Intellectually curious. Even tempered around kids and likes them. Fine with teasing and being teased. NOT neurotic. Able to be happy even under adverse conditions. Able to adult. Solid boundaries.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/06/17 11:40 PM
5

he'd probably have more kids. Sperm quality suffers as frequency goes up.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/05/17 09:30 PM
1

Same is true in reverse as well, in cultures where men are expected to not work.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/05/17 03:56 PM
5

avoiding low status != seeking high status
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/17 03:50 AM
2

Uniparental lineages are bad tools for determining the kind of variance that TRP cares about. In addition, mitochondrial and Y-DNA academic research in that time frame was not very good - their ability to sequence was very limited compared to modern science and they kept using mutation rates that were flatly wrong. There's more modern research involving full sequences of X chromosomes and autosomes that shows the difference was much, much smaller than 17 to 1.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/17 12:06 AM
1

It's a positive trait like any other. For example.... Female chimps don't have male preferences in estrus. They will mate indiscriminately with every male in their group unless violently prevented (which often/usually happens). Male chimps do have preferences. They will often completely ignore younger, low status females in estrus and line up around the block for a chance to mate with high status older female chimps, who could be 40+. Why do you think this behavior exists evolutionarily?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/05/17 04:55 PM
1

Only a tiny fraction of /both/ the mitochondrial lineages and the Y survive. Uniparental lineage also massively exaggerate the effect of rare demographic shocks. They are bad tools for the kind of things TRP tries to use them to prove. Both are also to a certain extent subject to non-sexual natural selection. Men have a very modest amount more reproductive variation on a generation by generation level, largely explained by serial monogamy. There were cultures where male slaves reproduced, like t…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/05/17 04:39 PM
1

not particularly different from 'omg she's a model' from men. Follow your logic - female status isn't necessarily dependant on income either, therefore somebody who pairs with a man higher income or other traits isn't necessarily marrying 'up'.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/05/17 04:14 PM
1

Nah, by the logic you used above it falsifies your hypothesis.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/05/17 03:05 PM
0

A pair bond for raising children is the equal trade. Men aren't attracted when they are unwilling to pair bond.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/05/17 01:53 PM
1

It gets you in the New York Times wedding section! http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/09/fashion/weddings/09WILLIS.html IMHO the bin man is more likely to marry up than a hypothetical bin woman who wants to keep working as a bin woman.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/05/17 12:12 AM
1

The phrasing in the article indicates they're talking about deceit. Worth noting that most of the people who have sacrificed their reproductive output to raise other people's children throughout history have been women - nannies, wet nurses, impoverished relations, slaves.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/05/17 12:04 AM
1

Provisioning guys reproduce more than non-provisioning guys - otherwise it would not have evolved as a behavior in our species. It's a positive quality just like a good immune system is a positive quality. It's not on some inferior level.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/17 11:53 PM
1

Yet women are marrying down in education.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/17 11:50 PM
1

The actual /behavior/ doesn't support your point. You're contradicting your position from elsewhere in the thread. (since men have higher incomes than women, it makes sense that most matchups would be with a higher income male partner, but TRP would still call that hypergamy)
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/17 06:27 PM
1

Don't have time to address all your points on my phone at but you do realize the share of husbands who are more educated than their wives has been dropping over the last 20-30 years in the US and is now exceeded by the share of wives who are more educated than husbands? Those awful hypergamous men, amiright?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/17 04:55 PM
3

http://www.akademia.angie.com.pl/kadra-trenerska-3/torben-beltz/ looks like his first coaching job was with her
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/17 05:10 AM
1

in what world are coaches and hitting partners not following players around and supporting them?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/17 02:59 AM
3

iirc the magnitude of the ovulation effect they found was tiny and basically meaningless
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/17 01:40 AM
3

Women avoid guys who, though incompetence, malice, or incapacity, would kill or starve their kids. I think that's the primary dynamic more than anything else, particularly in poor countries. I don't think hypergamy is a thing, though. I think TRP interprets women having reasonable minimum standards as hypergamy. These standards are imho largely imprinted by the family of the woman. The obvious evidence against is how improving and declining living standards change people pairing up. If women are…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/17 01:38 AM
2

They can date virtually anyone so they pick people that improve their status and marketability for endorsements. None of these women are "everyday women" like you said in your initial comment, except maybe the ones that met in high school, and only then to a limited extent. Most of them are college educated, even when coming from countries where a minority of people are. Andy Murray's wife is the daughter of a tennis coach. Also she adds 30 million pounds to his marketability. http://www.eurospo…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/17 01:23 AM
3

I noticed the nonpaternity rate they cited(10%) was unrealistically high, even if they hedged it a bit.... http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/504167 reviews various studies... definitely suggests axe-grinding by the author to me (I do genetic genealogy, it's not 10%)
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/17 12:34 AM
1

They seem to care quite a bit about dating models... and you're not looking at family status either. Should be comparing to father's/mother's occupation.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/17 10:09 PM
1

Men who pay for sex have higher STD rates than guys who don't
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/17 06:44 PM
1

except the women using sperm donors
/r/PurplePillDebate19/05/17 04:52 AM
7

If it's a point mutation (vs chromosomal), it's likely dad's fault.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/17 10:39 PM
1

I see a lot of guys on PPD ragingly upset that 'their league' is 'single moms'.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/17 10:06 PM
1

A guy who's trying to knock up women on the side is not investing as much in his kids as an otherwise equal man who isn't doing that.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/05/17 11:44 PM
1

Better study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2833377/
/r/PurplePillDebate16/05/17 11:08 PM
3

A lot of sources of reproductive skew have nothing to do with that kind of thing. Male generation length is longer than female generation length (males begin to reproduce later and can reproduce longer). That alone will lead to having more female ancestors than male ancestors. A lot of people who talk about this lack the context for what normal families were historically. If you spend any time doing genealogy it's obvious - a lot of people don't successfully reproduce, even if they get married y…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/05/17 11:08 PM
5

The mental picture people get from this article is inaccurate to begin with. This is about survival of uniparental lineages - you can't extrapolate ancestral sex lives from it. Most men who have kids 'don't reproduce' in the sense that their Y chromosome eventually dies out.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/05/17 03:21 PM
1

The historical pattern in Western Europe was not universal marriage. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_European_marriage_pattern
/r/PurplePillDebate15/05/17 11:09 PM
2

Most males and females born failed to find a mate because of child mortality. Most males that lived to normal marriage age in their society found a mate. Most males failed to leave descendants to the modern day, but that's a separate matter from their experiences in their lifetimes of marriage and sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/17 10:30 PM
3

Even if people dated completely randomly, 90% of couples would have a taller man.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/17 11:22 PM
0

Eh not really. Men will be less attractive to women to the extent they fail to offer what women want.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/17 04:24 PM
15

You need to look at the outcomes from the perspective of women. Women who marry in their early twenties have dramatically lower household income over their lives compared to those who marry later. So marrying young doesn't correlate with marrying rich at all from a female point of view. https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/03/getting-married-later-is-great-for-college-educated-women/274040/ also, the first wife tends to have higher status, have the kids that will inherit, has more kids…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/17 02:58 PM
1

Extremely polygamous mammals have much more dimorphism -also, dimorphism is decreasing in humans over time.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/17 04:52 PM
1

There's this TRP fantasy that having sex with lots of women and not marrying translates to reproductive success. It actually doesn't - guys trying to dodge paternal investment have fewer kids than guys who don't. The most reproductively successful men look nothing like TRP's stereotype of a playboy alpha.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/17 04:29 PM
2

they're not evolutionarily successful, regardless.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/17 01:42 PM
2

Men who never choose to marry father waaay less children than men who ever choose to marry, and iirc less children than gay men.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/17 01:29 PM
2

She has higher risks than the guy, so if she's not compensated for those, it's not an even trade, she's paying him for sex
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 06:01 PM
2

She has higher risks than the guy, so if she's not compensated for those, it's not an even trade, she's paying him for sex
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 06:01 PM
1

She has higher risks than the guy, so if she's not compensated for those, it's not an even trade, she's paying him for sex
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 06:01 PM
6

She has higher risk than the guy, so if she's not compensated for those, it's not an even trade, she's paying him for sex
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 06:01 PM
1

Men absolutely have the option to prostitute themselves.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 04:19 PM
2

Men are less likely to live in poverty. http://cdn.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/issues/2008/10/img/women_poverty3.jpg
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/17 05:31 AM
5

money that went to a prostitute could have gone to a wife. stds can kill fertility and cripple the offspring of a faithful woman. a man who married a foreigner is not marrying a single countrywoman, potentially leaving her childless. Largely, men going to war are not loyal enough to their 'nation' or their women to demand in good conscience loyalty and chastity unto death from woman. If they were, things would be different. I think the US estimated 80% of single and 50% of married soldiers were …
/r/PurplePillDebate03/05/17 12:14 AM
2

Male actions in war can lead to 'german sons' just as easily.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/05/17 08:26 PM
11

That logic applies to men too. Plenty of guys marrying war brides, hiring prostitutes, catching STDs, cheating on their wives in a war context.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/05/17 08:25 PM
1

You're wildly overestimating male fertility (through vaginal sex). This guys has dedicated his life to impregnating women, every sexual encounter he has is at women's peak fertility, and averages 10/year. http://www.gq.com/story/how-to-have-babies-sperm-donor-ed-houben
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/17 05:13 AM
1

It's possible in women to have an ovary frozen before puberty & tissue from it reimplanted later. Not a great option, mind, but an option. Large numbers of eggs can be stimulated in fairly young teens...I've heard some less than ethical outfits do this in Africa to supply human eggs for research.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/17 04:11 AM
2

A lot of narcissistic people (not all of course) are really obsessed with outward appearance and probably would make sure the housework got done somehow.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/17 05:40 PM
3

Say a woman asks a guy to not flush condoms or wetwipes down the toilet because it'll fuck up the plumbing. Who do you think the woman will respect more? The guy who stops doing that or the guy who insists on continuing to do that because she's not the boss of him and floods the apartment with shit? Guy B is not more evolutionarily fit.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/17 05:37 PM
1

Heh. A relative of mine who was a housewife in the 50s miiight have been a virgin when she married at like 18, but certainly had more partners afterwards. Never learned to cook, either. Ended up with a better old age than most, too, on her third husband that she married at maybe 60.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/17 05:27 PM
6

Just because some women are codependent doesn't mean they're the only ones that really love.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/17 03:02 PM
5

Isn't the guy who doesn't contribute proportionally but demands sex treating it like a tinder swipe?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/17 02:34 PM
4

Just like men can be upset with duty sex, women, similarly, can be upset with chores when if comes from that sort of place.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/17 02:32 PM
5

My understanding is that a much higher proportion of lesbians pair up in the first place, too, so it's not an apples to apples comparison at all.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/17 03:33 PM
1

The supposed feminine imperative benefits men and women equally. There is no successful male reproductive strategy that is both male dominated and zero investment.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/17 03:23 PM
3

It's possible to be indecisive and dependent in a specifically male way. I wandered through google and found a 1949 government report on men's clothing preferences. A reasonably percentage of men had their clothes bought by their wives. A small (but still tracked!) percentage had their mothers do it. This is a male thing. Weird substitutes for food are definitely a male thing. These guys weren't buying their wives' clothes. Men have recently started buying more of their own clothes but only quit…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/17 05:46 AM
3

My ex had hm...extremely male traits, being a probably-autistic computer scientist. They were mostly negative traits though, like only being assertive when he was being self-destructive, hatred of food, making his elderly mother buy his clothes. Not much in the way of female traits, maybe conflict avoidance. My partner has a ton of positive masculine and feminine traits, which is amazing and much appreciated.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/17 12:11 AM
2

If the guys in her league aren't contributing enough to be worth forming a cooperative partnership with, it's not smooth sailing, it's a shipwrenck. I bet you'd never start a business with even 5% of the guys you are glibly telling women to bet their life on.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/17 09:09 PM
5

It's not hypergamy, it's avoiding negative value guys.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/17 07:03 PM
2

A guy and a girl can exercise the same amount and get different outcomes. Guys just aren't putting in the work to maintain social relationships that women do, which is different.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/04/17 02:49 AM
9

Guys spend less time maintaining social relationships, get worse results. It's more about effort than anything else. Nor is it a universal thing, my partner spends more time than I do and has a better social network. Casual sex is basically women paying men for sex due to the different risk profiles, the access is different because of that.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/17 11:14 PM
10

Casual sex, given the different risk profiles, is basically women paying men for sex. The differences are due to it not being a fair trade in the first place, not female privilege.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/17 11:09 PM
1

you do understand that the whole concept of men being owed sex was part of a holistic package where women were also owed reproductive access on demand? and that men are defecting at least as hard on their side?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/17 02:18 AM
1

Demilitarize pregnancy. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/14/health/silent-struggle-a-new-theory-of-pregnancy.html
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/17 01:12 AM
1

Yeah. Women see the role as valuable, they just have high standards for it that a lot of guys wouldn't meet.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/04/17 02:46 PM
5

"Teen Mom", wasn't it?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/17 04:15 PM
9

It's the disconnect between starting a long term relationship and having kids which is the driver here. Guys can 'commit' while simultaneously actively sabotaging the woman's long term life goals. Pairing off young no longer guarantees a woman a family at all, and women are seeing this and waiting for guys to be on the same page as them.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/04/17 05:30 PM
2

It's silly advice the way TRP reads it, which is that she's giving advice to only date bad boys when young. She seems to me to be giving advice to actually date a variety of guys and dump all but the best.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/04/17 02:54 PM
2

The kind of guy who's only contributing money to the relationship is going to be in trouble if he's not contributing. So don't be that guy. Contribute other stuff, like women do. Guys who understand, like, and are competent at the relationship social support stuff women normally do have a better time of it. A lot of the great guys I know have spent at least some time as a SAHD. I am not a guy and intend to be the main provider in my relationship... employment status doesn't matter to me. Relatio…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/04/17 05:08 AM
3

Society isn't compensating them enough to do so.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/04/17 03:24 PM
3

If he doesn't have time to show up he doesn't have time to be a dad either. I doubt you would marry a woman who worked 16 hour days solely because she worked 16 hour days without any regard to her other qualities - you have no grounds to be butthurt about the opposite. And some of those men do certainly marry.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/04/17 03:23 PM
2

Marriage is an evolutionarily good idea for men. The guys that choose marriage are the ones that reproduce - their traits will persist, others will die out.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/04/17 02:52 AM
3

A guy who goes "why would I get married with all this free pussy" is not actually tradcon. At 2:1 ratio, basically all you have to do is show up - clearly these 'blue collar' tradcon guys are not showing up. You don't have to be anything other than Mormon to be on a singles ward.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/04/17 02:45 AM
3

over 80% of the world population lived on less than $1 a day inflation adjusted in 1820. There's no evolutionary point to having sex with guys who are angry about reproducing - better to find a guy who wants to match a woman's mandatory reproductive investment or go it alone.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/04/17 02:14 AM
4

The much-maligned single mother in a modern country provides her offspring with a standard of living multiple orders of magnitude better than the median married couple back in the good old tradcon days hundreds of years ago. If it makes more sense to reproduce alone than to try to navigate the marriage market, that is what will happen. Guys whining about women not bribing them hard enough need to take a look at their own value.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/04/17 01:46 AM
2

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/peculiarpeople/2015/08/2-girls-for-every-boy-the-unpleasant-reality-for-utah-mormon-singles/ Yeah, no.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/04/17 01:07 AM
4

women never had guaranteed love and affection from one man until death /within/ marriage.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/04/17 12:59 AM
5

You're talking about politics at that point, not religion. Religiosity does not demand conservative politics.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/04/17 12:57 AM
3

It's really only the negative value guys that can't find someone.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/04/17 12:54 AM
5

There is an excess of religious women over religious men. It's men who don't want to behave religiously, not women.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/04/17 09:48 PM
1

lots of guys do sexually target young female relatives. This is one of the reasons being blatantly into teens is an unattractive trait in men.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/04/17 03:56 PM
2

It's not an absolute deal breaker by any means, but I prefer guys that weigh within around 30 lb of me. More a mass thing than a height thing. I wouldn't screen on height if I were online dating or anything.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/04/17 10:26 PM
2

Guys with one lifetime partner father the most children in the modern context, guys with 100+ aren't even replacing themselves.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/04/17 09:03 PM
2

I think a lot of guys assume they will be working or the higher income in the relationship when they think about job loss in a partner - they're not thinking about a negative shock in income comparable in magnitude to what a lower income partner would experience.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/04/17 03:28 PM
3

My understanding is that younger prostitutes historically have been able to make multiples of the wage of a skilled male laborer and have generally been much better off than younger married women. It's not news, it was just as true in the 1800s.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/04/17 03:18 PM
2

Most of the ultra low fertility countries, including Japan, have socially conservative views on the role of women.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/17 12:50 AM
4

Not really different than "can end when he no longer wants to have her as his".
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/17 12:07 AM
2

Interesting things will happen when pregnancy robots get invented and women get access to the reproductive privileges of men. The descendants of the generations who unlinked sex and reproduction will be less keen on sex and more keen on reproduction.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/17 12:03 AM
2

Yeah, if everyone dated entirely randomly, only 10% of women would be dating a guy shorter than them.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/17 12:54 AM
3

No, sperm donors are.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/04/17 04:48 PM
3

The constraint on reproduction for most men in modern times is their desire for kids, not anything women are doing.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/04/17 03:18 PM
2

Lower sex drive. They masturbate less too.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/17 07:37 PM
3

Aren't the women here largely classifying men into alpha & beta qualities in ways you disagree with and then saying they like betas better? They're (with few exceptions) not saying they like the alphas better. I don't see TRP trying to be more like Obama.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/17 06:13 PM
2

Genghis's presumed massive fertility is largely from inference and assumption as opposed to reliable historical sources. There's no proven link between him and the big C cluster.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/17 06:08 PM
3

If a woman wants kids it doesn't makes sense to lower standards unless the guy also wants kids and can meaningfully contribute labor and or money to their support. Otherwise they're largely better off as a single mother. Lots of guys WANT their partners to be childless at 50.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/17 04:29 PM
1

she wants kids, kids need financial support.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/17 04:20 PM
2

I am pointing out a specific thing your wife is performing that you'd stop loving her for not doing.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/04/17 05:17 PM
5

If her 'existence' is 100% based on her doing specific things, that's performance. Somebody could just as easily say that every reason men ever get dumped for boils down to 'not existing' on some mystical level.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/04/17 05:03 PM
8

That is 100% conditional love based on performance.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/04/17 04:19 PM
2

Yeah, but in the TRP context that's clearly not how they love - consider the specific example of a woman who does x sex act 'in general' but not with them.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/04/17 04:08 PM
8

If you would leave her if she stopped having sex with you, that's performance, not existing.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/04/17 03:35 PM
8

Do you think 'love for who you are' cares about weight, sexual enthusiasm, or whether they make you feel good about yourself(emotional labor)? When you get down to it all of those are performance.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/04/17 02:19 PM
1

sperm banks are probably getting people in the top 50%, but they care most about sperm quality, height, and lack of STDS, one of which is invisible and one of which is going to negatively correlate with how many people you've had sex with.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/04/17 01:32 PM
7

They win less than a Harvard virgin who's a sperm donor. Or a monogamous ultra-orthodox Jew.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/04/17 09:09 PM
5

I agree with this. I think a lot of awkward guys think their equivalent would be an awkward girl with a virginal reputation, rather than a woman with the kind of reputation you get when you don't have the skills to understand what your actions will make other people think of you and you can't read men's intentions very well.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/04/17 04:08 PM
1

Yes. They want to benefit from ambiguity.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/17 06:56 PM
3

For the record, I am in favor of men being able to agree with a woman before sex (legal form filed somewhere) that he would bear no responsibility for any resulting child. That lines up the incentives for both sexes.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/17 12:26 AM
5

Women cannot screen out men who don't want to be fathers because men deliberately lie about it to get sex, they change their mind midway through pregnancy, they change their mind when the child is born, they change their mind when the child is two, and so on. When the UK tried to put all of the responsibility for children on unwed mothers in the 1800s, it actually spiked the rate of such births, because it gave men more power to screw over women and less incentive to be careful about pregnancy. …
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/17 12:24 AM
5

It incentivizes men to abandon their families. Women can neither read men's minds or control the actions of men. Men lie about this stuff to get sex. A lot.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/04/17 06:38 PM
3

Controlled for genetics, parenting has minimal impact.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/04/17 05:46 PM
4

Loyalty without fault would include loyalty when sex dries up. Men largely don't have it.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/03/17 04:25 PM
2

Many lesbians have been in relationships with men.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/03/17 10:10 PM
3

I dated an extremely competent programmer once. He didn't understand why people liked music.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/03/17 04:08 AM
2

Ross was 'nice' in a way that involved social & professional sabotage of the women he was with.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/17 02:32 PM
1

na, alphas are reproductively successful & the two don't particularly correlate.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/17 02:29 PM
14

Yeah. A lot of men have fundamentally distorted thinking about other men - they view not being treated as the most important person in the room as persecution and generally overestimate the extent to which others behavior is targeted at them.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/17 08:17 PM
3

Worth noting that in situations where guys sometimes have to provide sex for protection, like prison, they look for identical traits.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/03/17 08:46 PM
4

if you structured it as a prisoner's dilemma, TRPers mean someone who cooperates even if they defect.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/03/17 01:52 PM
2

Highly promiscuous guys have fewer children in the modern context.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/03/17 03:01 PM
1

I know a woman... 5'10", 110 lb, dresses smokingly, knows how to put on makeup, thinning hair, socially off. Guess who can't find a boyfriend in a workplace full of men?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/03/17 03:34 AM
1

As somebody who's dated an noticeably above average kindness guy, it does get noticed. Being noticeably above average does require basic social skills though (e.g. a guy lacking theory of mind lacks a sense of what the person he is being kind to actually wants). All of his brothers are married to much richer women.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/03/17 01:24 AM
2

I think there are a lot of 4/10 kindness and moral integrity guys who think they're a 9/10, which skews the male perspective.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/03/17 01:21 AM
2

They don't want sex with guys who have too many associated externalities to make sex worthwhile.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/17 07:11 PM
3

Some of them have admitted to talking about 'Teen Mom' as opposed to their first hand experiences...
/r/PurplePillDebate17/03/17 03:01 PM
1

There are biological limitations on male fertility as well as female fertility. No, not just # of ejaculations, sperm quality goes down too. You see this in real life highly polygamous families, often there are more wives than children.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/03/17 05:53 PM
1

People say a lot of things about Genghis Khan that aren't necessarily supported by the historical record. Or the genetic record - there's no strict proof the high frequency haplotype is actually from him.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/03/17 04:10 PM
3

Eh... Being married to a high externality guy is going to make their lives worse, not better. Retail is not necessarily a worse 'job' than marriage .
/r/PurplePillDebate10/03/17 04:03 PM
3

Guys are distinctly inferior providers to jobs.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/03/17 03:42 PM
1

Sure. Celebrities, flashy guys, guys chasing much younger women are only a subset of the population of rich guys.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/03/17 06:03 PM
1

Nope. Plenty of studies of other species without birth control show that promiscuity and non-investment can be a losing strategy.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/17 05:18 PM
2

paternal maintenance of bastards has been officially part of English law for over 400 years
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/17 01:02 AM
1

Both of those only look at uniparental lineages so they're not meaningfully saying what TRP says - by their standards neither Mohammed or Henry VIII reproduced, a man with seven daughters 'didn't reproduce', a guy with who had a perfectly normal family life but bad things happened to his descendants after he died 'didn't reproduce'. The vast majority of normal modern families will not leave direct Y-DNA or mtDNA descendents.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/17 12:55 AM
1

when you're talking about evolutionary psychology, evolutionary success is what matters
/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/17 10:05 PM
1

chimpanzee females are sexually unselective and will mate with every available male unless violently prevented or isolated
/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/17 07:49 PM
1

casual sex != evolutionary success
/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/17 07:48 PM
2

Sexy son is a strategy, but it can be a /losing/ strategy, because women take a fitness hit directly for mating with high-partner count males. Polygamous men who have large numbers of children have them at the expense of the women they mate with - those woman would have more children with a monogamous partner under nearly all circumstances.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/03/17 10:52 PM
2

I'm a shade above normal female height. And yes, strongly would prefer those two. Thinking about it, I have only ever dated top 2% guys, really.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/03/17 11:16 PM
1

Smart and capable. My preferred male height is more like 5'10" so easy choice.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/03/17 09:33 PM
1

Job, no question. As someone who's dated a guy with a 200k salary and dumped him.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/03/17 07:40 PM
1

it's netted out against the externalities. It's the high-externality guys who are unhappy about it, the guys who are "nice" in ways that create unnecessary problems for their partners or expect 80 hours of emotional labor and ego stroking for a $5 bouquet. Plenty of men are 'nice' but will (intentionally or not) sabotage her job or her social network or cause her endless grief in ways that are vastly disproportionate to any benefit she receives from niceness. e.g. imagine a guy who is nice to hi…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/03/17 02:10 AM
1

If your girlfriend is complaining about gifts and you're still giving them to her you're not being nice.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/17 06:46 PM
6

6 and 8 are not in any way representative samples of obese women because of their facial aesthetics.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/17 07:21 AM
1

if you dig down... less than you'd think. look at what happened in that one state that accidentally raised the age limit. they dropped it down to adoptable age really fast. people really really want to be able to buy no strings attached babies and that has shaped a lot of laws and policies in this country. Once you don't have teen mothers forced to give up their kids there's tons of unmet demand It's not reaaaally for the mother's benefit. it's this way because it serves the interests of the fut…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/02/17 06:40 AM
1

First off, vanishingly few women use safe havens. They are ultimately about supplying the adoption market with no-strings-attached babies rather than about the mothers. Male sole parents with extremely young infants would have just as easy a time using them. Abandoning /half/ a kid doesn't supply the adoption market, so there's no reason to allow it.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/02/17 06:28 AM
1

Some nerds age amazingly, others really poorly.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/02/17 09:37 PM
4

TRP logic...A woman has sex with one guy once and another guy 3000 times, and the second guy is the one getting OMG NOTHING.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/02/17 09:30 PM
9

Swedish guys do a lot of investing in their kids and childcare and household work is distributed equitably. They are pretty much the opposite of 'player-type' in that regard.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/02/17 07:03 PM
3

Or they'll hang out on the hapa subreddit, angry at their parents, heh.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/02/17 03:13 PM
6

I don't think it's even remotely all about the man and what he's doing - same man, same game will have different effect depending on her mood and what's going on in her life.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/17 09:01 PM
8

Not remotely true. I've never had a reaction to a man on first meeting stronger than 'I'd like to get to know him better'.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/17 06:55 PM
2

The good relationship material man looking for casual sex is willing to invest a lot... in someone else. That's not attractive to the person he's looking for casual sex from, because she's not that someone else and, reasonably should only considers what he offers her.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/17 06:50 PM
3

I'd really love OP's explanation of how this guy gets laid. https://www.google.com/amp/www.gq.com/story/how-to-have-babies-sperm-donor-ed-houben
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/17 05:25 PM
7

They probably are demanding more from her than they are providing, emotionally.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/17 05:03 PM
6

There's an assumption here that short term mating is about the guy inducing lust... don't think that's really true. Women run into top X% guys every day without ripping their clothes off and rarely have or seek out casual sex. If one year she had sex on the day she was horniest with a random guy, the correct comparison isn't 'any Tuesday' in a relationship, it's the horniest she is all year in the relationship. 'any Tuesday' she wouldn't be having sex with the short term guy, but she might with …
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/17 04:57 PM
1

Smarter. I prefer being the higher earner.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/17 01:01 AM
1

The existence of FGM cultures - particularly the extreme ones where the woman's vagina is literally sewn shut and needs to be cut or forced open - shows that female pleasure isn't remotely necessary for men.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/17 12:59 AM
6

In a lot of cases what makes a guy low value is the negative externalities they impose on other people for dealing with them. It's not so much that they have less good traits (that can be part of it), but that the actively bad bits outweigh the good.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/02/17 03:24 PM
3

His concept of a marriage contract is hilariously fixated on male interests... I really wonder what he thinks the contractual obligations of men are in marriage are. I doubt it's anything that gives women, like, actual recourse for a guy not helping with the kids or anything like that.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/17 07:18 PM
3

if there's a child involved, support labor is still being provided. someone providing support labor should have the ability to save for retirement and future needs just like any other labor - a job can't confiscate a guy's retirement savings if he quits, even though all the retirement savings came from the job.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/17 05:51 AM
3

why do you think the problem is women not bribing men enough rather than men not bribing women enough
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/17 01:03 AM
3

and here's another example of the 'women should only be paid in room and board for support labor within relationships' thought process.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/17 12:47 AM
5

all men have to do to get a kid that is all theirs is pay fair price for a surrogate and fair price for an egg donor and the various procedures necessary and then do or pay for all the labor necessary to raise the kid.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/02/17 10:42 PM
3

My ex's mom was in her 70s and clearly frustrated by it (though not enough to say a word about it to him)
/r/PurplePillDebate16/02/17 07:26 PM
5

"I'm not your mother" is 95% about day to day to day routine life interactions, not catastrophies. A working economically viable relationship should have contingency plans and the ability to adapt to unforeseen circumstances - that's maturity, not immaturity.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/02/17 06:52 PM
3

It doesn't...Well, OK, it does when a guy's kids would also need inappropriate mothering as adults, which in that situation would be likely.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/02/17 06:38 PM
7

No, it only means they don't want to take care of someone who's immature. I have no interest in either being provided for or men who need excessive mothering.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/02/17 06:34 PM
3

I think there's a subset of guys (some of whom post here) who really really want fake respect, in that they would much rather a woman act at all times like a waitress hustling for tips than authentically. It reminds me of a study I read on prison rape...One of the victims was talking about the sort of emotional performance demanded, that they had to pretend like they liked it or really bad stuff would happen.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/02/17 06:18 PM
8

There's this ugly mental model a lot of guys have that women are only owed room and board for the labor they do on behalf of men (no ability to save, no retirement). And they wonder why women want careers.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/02/17 06:04 PM
1

If the man was paying a nanny, the nanny would also be getting 'enough to support herself'. Watching kids is labor.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/02/17 09:14 PM
2

The woman is usually providing way more, especially labor, than the man, so the man's technically extracting providership for his kids from the woman.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/02/17 09:13 PM
3

Nah, the only real way is to have agreements that the man has no rights to any resulting child before sex. Men want to have an out while benefiting from pre-sex ambiguity...they should have an out but not the ambiguity.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/02/17 03:57 PM
3

nah, should be before sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/02/17 02:38 PM
3

It's pretty easy to adopt out a kid as a woman in situations where the guy's not in the picture /because/ there is a significant 'market' for no strings attached babies. The easiness isn't about letting women out of responsibility, it's 100% about feeding that market. There isn't that market for 1/2 strings attached babies therefore the state has no interest in letting one party bail on the kid if the other party wants to raise it.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/02/17 02:37 PM
2

Nah, the world isn't better off if TRPers have more kids. Lacking the desire to support kids is low fitness. They're sabotaging themselves though.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/02/17 07:53 PM
2

ups their mating effort at the cost of their reproductive output and effort.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/02/17 06:56 PM
2

It reduces the evolutionary fitness of TRP men and the women who associate with them.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/02/17 04:57 PM
4

Pretty much every major civilization was run by a woman at at least one point.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/02/17 02:14 AM
2

environment is more "things went wrong cell division 8 in the womb" than family structure. parenting just doesn't matter that much
/r/PurplePillDebate13/02/17 11:26 PM
0

A monosexually reproducing male society might have some trouble reproducing enough.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/02/17 11:06 PM
4

any large city will have several. Nearly 10,000 single homeless men were sheltered in NYC last night, for instance, plus many more homeless men with families in family shelters.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/02/17 10:53 PM
5

There was way more child poverty back in the 'good old days'. A single mother today provides her kids with a massively better standard of living than most married men throughout history have.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/02/17 10:08 PM
1

Punishment isn't the only purpose of incarceration - incapacitating people to prevent reoffending is another major part. Men reoffend more.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/02/17 09:42 PM
6

Nobody is going to kick you out of a food bank for being male. There are men's shelters and so on. It is not high status to receive help, but neither is it high status to receive help as a woman so I don't know what your issue there is. Plenty of women live in squalor. Many charitable services, especially churches, soup kitchens, so on are substantially run by female volunteers and funded by female donors. There are more male children than female, so programs that benefit children benefit males …
/r/PurplePillDebate13/02/17 09:13 PM
7

Nurture doesn't matter a ton compared to genetics. The single woman buying above average sperm to conceive with is likely going to have better outcomes than a married couple where both are heavily below average in law abiding behavior.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/02/17 06:35 PM
4

It's a bad assumption. There are tons of men who are outside this false dichotomy you've set up. Genuinely sociosexually restricted men exist.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/02/17 06:28 PM
5

This isn't a monogamy vs. polygamy question, this is a successful polygamist vs. unsuccessful polygamist question. It's bad TRP logic to think that a guy can't be successful, interesting or competent without being promiscuous, or think a guy can't be interested in monogamy unless he has nothing whatsoever going for him. This dynamic may well be true of the most polygamous subset of men, but not for men as a whole.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/02/17 05:23 PM
2

Celebrities are often hooked into social networks in such a way that they can't disappear and have more on the line. That makes them safer in some senses, more dangerous in others. Few guys are as afraid of their hookups as sports stars, for instance.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/17 08:31 PM
5

The other thing about it is that it's acting like the woman doesn't exist except when she's interacting with a guy. Like if she sleeps with some guy fast she would always be in the mood to have sex with him that fast. If a woman has sex very infrequently when single, they're not seeing the vast percentage of the time the woman isn't remotely horny despite having, per TRP, sex with Chad available on demand.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/17 07:05 PM
4

If a guy doesn't value a woman's financial and nonsexual contribution, why should she value his, particularly if he's resentful and grasping about it? Because it's work on his part? It's work on her part too.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/17 03:59 PM
5

There's more a guy can contribute to a relationship than just income. There's a difference between contributing, not contributing, and actively sabotaging - most of the guys women bail on for this sort of thing are in the third category.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/17 03:21 PM
4

It's meaningless to bad men.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/17 02:48 PM
4

If he's butthurt about forming a reproductive partnership, he's not really giving himself to her, freely and genuinely and completely.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/17 02:42 PM
3

A guy's kids are going to be similar to the other people he shares 50% of his genes with.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/17 08:17 PM
1

It's more about him withholding conception opportunities than her withholding sex, actually.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/17 06:40 PM
2

That is how you think it should work, that is not how studies show it works.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/17 06:39 PM
4

Hypergamy, assuming a slightly larger male population and slightly larger male variability, is just math. I just generated some random numbers as an example 100 female/104 male, 5.5 mean, 2.5 standard deviation female/2.6 standard deviation (gets around 1-10, with a few outliers). The average difference between women in the top half and the men in the top half, assuming a 1:1 match where each guy picks the most attractive available woman is 0.3 in this dataset. The 'average' women in the 5s are …
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/17 06:17 PM
2

A lot of people in that situation end up keeping the switched kid.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/17 04:43 PM
2

Happened to my partner's grandmother, who married a travelling salesman who had two other families.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/17 03:50 PM
3

Uh, if a man invests less than an evolutionarily fair amount in his kids a woman has to invest more. If a guy doesn't feed or parent the kids women have to spend more resources feeding and parenting them. Guys aren't just diverting resources, they tend to not emotionally invest as much, not parent as much, not remember the kids names. If you plug it into an equation it's basically the same thing.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/17 03:45 PM
1

No, reproduction(and the next generation reproducing, etc. etc.) is success. TRP is hypnotised by bad proxies.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/17 03:34 PM
2

http://newsinfo.iu.edu/news-archive/16939.html
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/17 01:19 AM
4

Men associate with lots of women. Some benefit, some don't really, some really really don't. High SES women are disproportionally among those that benefit, while 'younger, prettier, thinner, nicer, less jaded' women disproportionately get burned. The guys that are all about their 'options' are usually users.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/17 01:06 AM
1

On average, polygamous men decrease the evolutionary fitness of their wives - women lose a child they would have had for every extra spouse their husband has. So it's about the same.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/17 01:01 AM
6

Rich men don't marry younger at a higher rate than poor men.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/17 12:44 AM
10

Seriously, male & female upper body strengths barely overlap in distribution. Small, underweight guys can easily overpower average to reasonably fit women.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/02/17 08:14 PM
1

It's not even 1 out of 17 reproducing, it's one man having a surviving-to-modern day Y chromosome lineage for every 17 women who has a surviving mtDNA lineage. So a guy who had 100 daughters would be 'not reproducing'. Most of the 16/17 who survived to the normal marriage age for their society would have normal families, just not a father to son lineage that persists to the present.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/02/17 05:11 PM
1

Chads are waaaay below replacement. High sex drive guys are losers, high reproductive drive guys are winners in the modern environment.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/02/17 04:31 PM
2

Women want sociosexuality restricted partners to reproduce with, so clearly the evolutionary pressures were about the same. Women take a direct fitness hit to number of offspring if they're with polygamous guys.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/17 10:23 PM
5

Chads aren't reproductively benefiting, though. Guys with lots of lifetime sex partners are having very few kids in modern environments, guys with 1 lifetime sex partner are having lots of kids.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/17 09:57 PM
2

This is good.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/17 08:10 PM
5

I don't think 'monogamy isn't about children' passes an evolutionary or anthropological sniff test. Being prevented from reproducing is genetic death.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/17 01:34 AM
2

IIRC sex is the right of the woman, not the man in Judaism
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/17 01:18 AM
5

Sure it is.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/17 12:08 AM
6

do you think a guy must inseminate his partner on demand since she's limiting herself to one reproductive partner?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/17 11:50 PM
1

There's a historic concept of marital debt in Western Civ. But it's not JUST about owing sex to each other, it's also about owing reproductive opportunity to each other... every time you have sex you're risking pregnancy. The extension of that to a right to non-reproductive sex is kind of dubious - because part of what made the old system work is that men had to balance how much sex they wanted with how many children they wanted.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/17 09:21 PM
3

Economic & reproductive.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/17 08:58 PM
2

rich men don't actually marry down in age at a higher rate than poor men
/r/PurplePillDebate05/02/17 06:00 PM
1

My ex was a shade taller than I am but not noticeably so... I also out-massed him by 30+ lbs (which was actually more of an attraction issue, I've never had an issue with short, there are some really cute short guys). We had some shared interests but his total inability to handle normal social interactions killed it for me.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/17 04:51 PM
3

A minority of men are attracted to most of the same things women are - and they're the ones women want.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/17 12:47 AM
4

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/seriouslyscience/2016/11/10/does-too-much-sexual-experience-make-you-unattractive/#.WJOszaCIbqA
/r/PurplePillDebate02/02/17 10:06 PM
2

A woman can not be interested in non-reproductive sex and still be reproductively motivated and seek conception opportunities. There are plenty of guys who are sexually but not reproductively motivated, and they're actually evolutionarily going to do worse under present circumstances. The guy who gets a vasectomy because he believes babies are an evil plot by women is a lot less reproductively fit than Octomom.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/02/17 05:12 PM
3

She should be able to 'save' from her work as a homemaker just the same as he is able to 'save' from his work as a laborer.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/02/17 07:45 PM
1

Eh, it's less complicated. The evolutionarily stable relationship between individuals of the same attractiveness isn't 'casual sex' or 'dating' or any non-reproductively oriented association, it's reproductive partnership. Guys usually aren't offering that early on so they don't get the benefits of offering that.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/02/17 04:40 PM
2

Unfortunately, you're not guaranteed to get a honest answer... It's reasonably frequent for married Muslim immigrants from some countries in the West to lie about being single when they have a wife at home - even on marriage certificates and such.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/17 06:01 AM
2

Mohammed had one (older than him) wife until she died. He was only extremely polygamous for a short fraction of his life.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/17 10:49 PM
3

Mm, but the normal marriage age was lower then too. Interest in women more than x years younger than the ordinary marriage age is blatantly short term because it stops being something that can generously be interpreted as courtship.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/17 05:08 PM
3

I think the age that men say they want and the age that they invest in women the most can be different. In modern society males seem to be investing most in women in their twenties - that's a revealed preference. For really short term stuff, I recall seeing a study from Thailand showing prostitute earnings peak after 20 (though not much after 20) - that's a revealed preference for very early 20s.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/17 04:22 PM
3

I think there's a lot of overlap between the men who are the most attracted to teens and the men who target their own young relatives (children, nieces, stepdaughters etc.) for sex. Both are pretty common and indicate a nonpaternal temperament imho - I think the incest risk is the ultimate evolutionary root of womens' disgust here. Associating in any way with men like that is a net negative.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/17 04:06 PM
6

Why do you think that's female friendly as opposed to gay male friendly? Some guys do both.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/17 11:22 PM
12

Is dude a trained midwife? Otherwise hell no, regardless of attractiveness or unattractiveness, he would pretty literally be trying to kill me. Probably hell no anyway. Guys in this kind of situation often sexually target their daughters too which is yet another incentive not to potentially reproduce.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/17 04:27 PM
3

Er, yeah they are. Men who have ever had a same sex experience exceed the number of gay men by a lot. It's largely not gay men committing prison rape.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/17 11:24 PM
4

The observed behavior of men in all male environments shows that they often actually view other men as options as opposed to nonoptions.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/17 07:33 PM
2

Note that number of sex partners does not correlate with reproductive success here - evolutionarily those things are not remotely the same thing and claiming they are is really bad evopsych.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/17 07:03 PM
7

While there weren't really wages for the most part, women had access to more occupations than men, who were legally constrained to hunting and war. Women could do hunting and war, if rarely, some fought and commanded armies. Women could assume positions of leadership, though not through the same methods of men. They had property rights, divorce rights.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/17 07:12 PM
7

There were a lot of powerful women around Genghis Khan. Mongolian women handled the money and trading and so on. He'd take his sons in law with his army, leaving his daughters to run their countries.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/17 05:14 PM
2

A traditional marriage is not a couple, it is a couple with a number of kids proportional to how fertile they are and how much sex they've been having.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/17 04:47 PM
5

No, not at all. High quality plus reserved is a good combo.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/17 04:02 PM
2

Britain tried putting all the onus on women in the nineteenth century, as I recall. It increased bastardy because men were suddenly rewarded for not supporting their kids. Actual successful reductions in illegitimacy have always involved extreme social pressures on BOTH parties - look at colonial MA vs VA.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/17 12:39 AM
1

Men create plenty of negative externalities by doing what they want with their bodies.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/17 12:25 AM
4

Artificial gestation is coming too.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/17 12:06 AM
3

The 1950s had an unusually high marriage rate due to unusually good economic conditions. They were not 'traditional', plenty of people married in 1955 that would never have been able to get married in 1855.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/17 12:01 AM
4

Plenty of women starved to death back in the day and lived in extraordinarily awful conditions. Just because men had an expected role didn't mean they were any good at it. Modern society is orders of magnitude better at keeping women safe.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/17 11:23 PM
13

If you look at people with an actual thing for being actually treated like infants, the adult baby community, they're like 93% male.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/17 06:04 PM
3

How many kids is the average TRPer having? How many kids does the average TRPer want to support? A higher percentage of people are having at least one child now than they were 100 years ago - the fertility rate is largely driven by people with 4+ children and there are fewer of those.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/17 05:36 PM
5

China has a worse birth rate than the west, as do many extremely socially conservative modern societies.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/17 05:33 PM
4

Money isn't the only thing that matters. Women do a lot of labor for men that isn't formally compensated but still has serious economic and social value - you weren't paying your mom to change your diapers. A lot of things men call wealth distribution are actually reasonable compensation for female labor - female work is just invisible to them.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/17 05:28 PM
6

Men don't treat undesirable women as equal.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/17 04:14 PM
3

Where is this assumption that low value men actually provided much protection, stability, or resources coming from? I don't think the 15th or 20th percentile guy was ever adding much value when you get down to it.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/17 03:36 PM
6

Except, since women have a much higher risk premium, 'equal attractiveness' is not an equal exchange for casual sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/17 02:58 PM
10

In the red pill view of the world casual sex increases a man's value/status and decreases a woman's value status. Even by their logic it's not an equal trade so economically it would not be expected to happen.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/17 12:19 AM
2

Guys tend to think of some behaviors as natural that are actually a pretty deeply fake form of female performance.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/01/17 10:09 PM
1

HL Mencken, back in the day, believed that prostitutes had better marriage outcomes than non-prostitutes.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/01/17 09:58 PM
6

Yeah... most people with fetishes are men, and there are some pretty extreme fetishes. My impression is that the furry community in particular has a lot of guys and a lot of really extreme porn, substantially written by guys. There are female writing spheres and male writing spheres on the internet, and the male writing spheres are less visible and more specialized.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/01/17 04:30 PM
3

There are also guys who act like John Lennon. 'polygamy' tends to be effective abandonment when seen in real life. Guys don't multiply their investment, they divide it, and kids of polygamy have outcomes like kids of single moms.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/01/17 01:25 AM
1

My experience is the same.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/17 09:03 PM
2

TRP kinda ignores that menopause is going to be conquered pretty soon now with artificial gametes (and a young woman who's serious about preserving her fertility past menopause and has some resources can currently do so via egg or ovary freezing). It's not a law of the universe, being actually pretty rare among mammals.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/17 03:44 PM
3

Sure. Evolutionarily speaking, relationships either lead to children, support existing children, or reduce her reproductive success...
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/17 03:37 PM
3

Men bring STDs home, some of which can render a woman infertile or harm her kids. Men also generally waste money on sex. A high mating effort guy is just vastly inferior to a high reproductive effort guy. It's not just women who react this way, look at how the children of gratuitously unfaithful men. They've done studies on polygamous societies, kids of highly polygamous guys have all the handicaps of kids of single mothers and are generally really unimpressed by their dads.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/17 03:12 PM
7

Not to mention the over 50℅ of children who are male. Any analysis of cross gender transfers has to account for the physical and caretaking labor cost of raising male children largely falling on women.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/17 09:44 PM
1

No, seventeen women had a modern surviving mitochondrial line to every man with a surviving modern Y chromosome line. Despite the clickbait headline, that's not the same as 'reproducing' - they are only looking at uniparental lineages very far in the past.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/17 04:08 PM
2

Withdrawal, etc. have been around forever and aren't all that much worse than some modern methods (even the most advanced can fail, my SO has a brother who was born after his mother had her tubes tied). In addition, infant abandonment has always been a thing. France began its demographic transition before 1800. There aren't that many communities with a truly natural fertility pattern.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/17 04:14 AM
1

TRP focuses on the men women have casual sex with, while dismissing the men they reproduce with. That's anti-evopsych right there.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/17 02:19 AM
1

You don't have data from a hundred generations, you're just assuming that it fits your biases.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/17 01:38 AM
3

It's a very modern assumption that a mere unsupported conception will result in a reproductively successful kid. But players have been having low fertility for quite some time in the US - one of the HBD bloggers pulled data from the GSS to chart it. https://jaymans.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/child-by-playa1.png Are there extremely reproductively successful promiscuous men? Sure. But they're enough of a minority among highly promiscuous men that there's no actual evolutionary benefit per se in b…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/17 01:21 AM
2

Evolution is change. As what works changes, what is desired changes. And the changes come faster than you might think. Red pill guys reproduce below replacement? The future will contain less people like them and less people attracted to people like them. Below replacement fertility is pretty merciless like that.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/17 10:54 PM
4

Many are college students and the process requires STD screening and a lot of hoop jumping that only high FTO people would really bother with. Most of the screening, height aside, is for invisible traits like semen quality and recessive disease carrier state.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/17 06:45 PM
5

Chimpanzees also compete to mate with the oldest, highest status females and ignore the youngest.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/17 05:43 PM
6

High status doesn't have a particularly positive correlation with reproductive success in modern environments. "Fertile" only matters if the fertility is used to have multiple surviving children who go on to reproduce at an above average rate. Having sex but not kids with a nubile 18 year old with great egg quality is evolutionarily pointless. The strongest positive selection going on right now is towards men inclined to be sperm bank donors who can pass the screening. Some of them are probably …
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/17 05:40 PM
10

Evolution doesn't care about frequency of sex or number of sex partners or social status or power in relationships or almost anything TRP. It cares about reproductive success alone. Brad Pitt is significantly less reproductively successful than Jim Bob Duggar, yet TRPers only want to be one of those guys.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/17 05:01 PM
6

Guys in college distinctly aren't financially stable, haven't in most cases demonstrated responsibility, and have often never had to navigate a real world job market. A lot of them will crash and burn. In many cases they haven't even decided what city they'll end up living in.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/17 02:46 PM
2

Yes. Probably autistic, looking for someone to be support staff but without enough going for him to make anyone want to do that. Mom still buys his clothes and runs his finances at nearly 40.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/17 05:29 AM
2

No.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/17 12:27 AM
1

The GSS
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/17 10:56 PM
2

There's nothing in it for a guy who values what you do. There's plenty in it for a guy who values different things than you do.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/17 10:41 PM
1

Guys with 1 partner have the most reproductive success at every education level.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/17 10:08 PM
2

A guy who would do that is low value, though. # of sex partners after age 18 is strongly negatively correlated with genetic fitness (reproductive success)
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/17 09:48 PM
5

I don't necessarily endorse OP's strategy completely, but screening TRP types out is a plus, not a minus of this strategy.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/17 09:24 PM
3

It's a system for redistribution of wealth among the population through marriages. There are also cultures where men pay bride prices.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/17 05:25 PM
2

Men are actually almost half a foot taller than women on average.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/17 05:56 PM
3

If a woman sent nudes to a man, TRP would call it cheating.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/17 05:26 PM
5

Ability to actually get sex has no bearing though. Men can do all the relationship-destroying elements of cheating even without the ability to follow through. It takes no skills to sexually harass a waitress in public or send unsolicited dick pics to Stacy or a guy's daughter's classmates. Being with a guy like Anthony Weiner is no different than being with a physical cheater.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/17 04:54 PM
1

because, adjusted for education, high partner count men have vastly fewer children than low partner count men.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/17 02:44 PM
1

Bigger issue for guys on the autism spectrum, to be fair.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/16 09:10 PM
5

They have a lower evidence standard but still an evidence standard. They interviewed more people, they cross checked the stories, they showed the texts (which the cops also had but didn't put into the report). They noted the attempted destruction of evidence by the guys. Based on what they have, she is more credible. That's why the football players ended their strike. Prosecutor was looking into it again last news I heard. They may not have enough evidence to throw the guys in jail but that does…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/16 08:58 PM
8

upvoted because OP has either not read the university report or is blatantly choosing to ignore it. http://kstp.com/kstpImages/repository/cs/files/U%20of%20M%20EOAA%20redacted5.pdf
/r/PurplePillDebate24/12/16 05:17 PM
1

The only way traditional Muslim societies "worked" in the first place was with massive adult and child mortality. Take that away and the whole thing collapses. There's a boom before the collapse but the collapse is coming... oil can't prop them up forever.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/12/16 11:11 PM
0

Women have more risk so they always are "paying for sex". If you aren't covering that excess risk - if as is often the case she'd be worse off for having sex with you - there's no reason to do it.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/16 07:28 PM
2

Sex isn't innately free because there is risk, and that risk is higher for the woman. She is paying for sex in risk, it's reasonable to look for someone matching that investment.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/16 05:40 PM
3

If your desirability to men is 100 and your ability to get what you want out of relationships is 0, you /will/ get 0. Now, the guy could get 100 but that's not valuable to the woman. Education (well, also intelligence and class status, to a certain extent education is a marker and it won't help someone with low intelligence that much) ups the second number.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/16 05:37 PM
4

Many of the ways men "value" female attractiveness have no or negative value to women, so women quite rightly don't care about them. Guys who only value female attractiveness (particularly the ones only into teens) are terrible partners overall so screening them out is usually a net positive. It's reasonable to remain single if any available partner would subtract value from your life.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/16 04:49 PM
7

Depends on how well she can detect and avoid users and con artists. Men who think intelligence isn't important for women aren't really thinking about how there's a basic intelligence needed (ESPECIALLY as a beautiful woman) to avoid being totally screwed over by men. Women lacking this kind of intelligence are very poorly regarded by men and have bad outcomes. Women with doctorates/professional degrees are more likely to be married these days than women of any other education level, btw.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/16 03:12 AM
3

Educated women are treated better. The motivation for why that's the case doesn't really matter. A guy can desperately want to treat beautiful women badly with every fiber of his being and it'd still be a bad deal for the beautiful woman.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/16 01:18 AM
4

Engineers have very low divorce rates.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/16 12:42 AM
5

A women's assets are what gets her what she wants. Not what others appreciate in her.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/16 12:31 AM
3

I prefer a guy slightly taller and more massive than me, but not dramatically so. Guys over 6' I find threatening and thus unattractive, unless maybe if they're really lean. I dated a guy once who was a standard deviation or more below the average male height - not a deal breaker. The average height difference between men and women is 5 or 6 inches, so my ideal guy would be genetically shorter than me (if we were both the same sex he'd be the shorter one) A preference for a normal height differe…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/16 11:27 PM
2

What's happening is a shaking out of the gene pool after the disconnect between sex and reproduction started. Guys who are both smart and don't actually want kids are able to eliminate themselves. The next generation will be mostly loyal to the people who actually put the effort into raising them and more pro-natal that the average of the previous generation. The other half of the disconnect between sex and reproduction is coming in a few decades (women better off having a kid through non-interc…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/16 04:40 AM
2

Not everywhere is as child- hostile as Germany either, heh.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/16 11:25 PM
5

And then there's the female work with chemical hazards.... phossy jaw, radium....
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/16 08:05 PM
1

https://m.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/47pnme/american_idol_sob_story_chris_medina_trades_his/?ref=search_posts TRPers are pretty damn sympathetic to the reverse situation
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/16 05:51 PM
1

Yeah, imho that's a significantly better outcome than median for the disabled person in that situation, particularly if the disabled person was a woman - I would also want that sort of outcome (though I'm against pointless care for myself this is sort of borderline)... I would also be understanding of an overwhelmed caretaker choosing institutionalization or taking steps to preserve some remnant of assets.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/16 05:34 PM
3

15+ years of 24/7 care to a disabled person, sacrificing an independent career while also responsible for the care of children is MUCH more work than your average TRPer would put in, I'd lay odds. They lose interest and fidelity within weeks or months of not having sex. She's retirement age.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/16 04:53 PM
2

The wife in this situation is providing more service for less cost than a nurse would. And the nurse would also have her own sex life. This thread surprises me with just how insanely sex-transaction focused and profoundly ungrateful TRPers are regarding major female sacrifice.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/16 04:06 PM
2

he lives there too. other housing/nursing arrangements for someone in his condition would be incredibly expensive
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/16 07:19 AM
5

http://www.wisn.com/article/family-of-15-year-old-girl-shot-killed-holds-vigil/8496326 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/06/15/this-brave-mother-died-saving-her-gay-sons-life-during-orlando-shooting/
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/16 08:17 PM
7

There's an excess of wife/girlfriend murder victims over husband/boyfriend murder victims of over 700 per year in the US. So quite a few people end up doing this. Probably should also add in the 800 or so childbirth deaths a year, which is historically pretty low. I don't know what the numbers are for men actually dying for women in real life in modern society are but I doubt they're in that range.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/16 05:57 PM
2

"unable to ever have sex" is different than "dead bedroom". Marriage is more a potentially reproductive relationship than a sexual one, historically, and many of the outs have much more to do with preserving womens' reproductive interests than men's sexual ones. In Judaism sex is the woman's right, for instance.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/16 08:03 PM
4

What if the woman wants kids and the man doesn't? Should the same logic apply?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/16 04:56 PM
3

Sure, lots of guys are desperately unhappy if they aren't getting an unfair share. But there are plenty of guys who aren't like that too. Neuroticism is negatively correlated with happiness, and if they're neurotic about being dominant they're going to be neurotic about everything else too.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/12/16 11:44 PM
3

just average your first degree female relatives
/r/PurplePillDebate12/12/16 03:16 AM
3

Even worse than that - one of the favorite things for TRPers to link only looked at uniparental lineages (y chromosome and mitochondria) that survive to the present day. So only if your sons had sons has sons had sons... Sure, there was some skew - but guys who lived to the normal age of reproduction in society (not a guarantee) and were fertile were pretty likely to reproduce or at least have sex. I do genetic genealogy so this kind of stuff annoys me.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/12/16 11:06 PM
2

I actually had the exact opposite dynamic in my last relationship regarding expected gender roles in driving. It was a bit off-putting, I have to admit... not what killed the relationship though.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/16 10:25 PM
2

One alternate approach: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2006/06/25/fashion/25love.html
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/16 10:16 PM
3

Men keep women on the rope with labor, women keep men on the rope with labor. It's the same deal except men have this mental block about seeing what women do for them as real labor.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/16 06:16 PM
8

AKA emotional and physical labor to make him feel awesome about himself regardless of what he actually does aka the female performance burden.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/16 04:27 PM
8

TRPers seem to have a definition of love that is roughly equivalent to 'anal sex'
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/16 04:42 AM
7

There's a lot more tolerance of infidelity and explicit open marriages among gay men, iirc, which removes some possible sources of conflict.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/12/16 06:26 AM
2

iirc, none of them are reproductively sustainable.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/16 03:49 PM
3

They're not reproductively sustainable.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/16 03:24 PM
2

her basic problem is that she doesn't believe her current set up would support kids as a working reproductive partnership, and it looked like it would when she got to ether with him.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/16 02:47 PM
3

we're probably only a couple decades away from producing youngish sperm from older women's stem cells. Between that and developments that will make children conceived through artificial reproduction healthier, smarter, etc. than otherwise I really think the women reproducing without men might have the last laugh.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/16 06:13 AM
8

women usually bond to the baby in the womb, men usually after it's born if at all. also, the high fto approach can burn women hard. Plenty of guys dead cradle women if they think they can get away with it, or want them to audition for years and years and then end up crappy dads anyway. In a lot of cases the woman who doesn't wait will have more grandchildren and more ultimate reproductive success.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/16 06:02 AM
4

marriage is often not a safe space for childbearing either these days. never really was, to be fair, but usually men weren't trying to put children off for decades or forever back in the day.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/16 05:48 AM
2

guys can be only after P&T within marriage and LTRs too.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/16 03:19 AM
7

A guy who desperately wants to be promiscuous and fails at it isn't the same in any way as a monogamous guy though (desires count way more than actions here)...and he's a pretty good match for the woman who wasn't getting what she wanted out of a promiscuous lifestyle.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/12/16 05:10 PM
2

It has nothing to do with her wearing heels or not though, it has to do with the normal distribution of height for men and women.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/12/16 04:56 PM
2

Men are significantly taller than women. A woman's male equivalent will be taller than her plus heels, unless the heels are truly ridiculous.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/12/16 04:19 PM
1

I have more sympathy for people who are monogamous in this situation than those who wanted to be promiscuous themselves but were failures at it.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/12/16 07:57 PM
7

I have no sympathy to guys in that situation who don't actually want a mate though (someone to form a reproductive partnership with) like OP. They want an unpaid servant they don't have to "provision" who sacrifices all their own interests to feed the guys ego. I've dated an unattractive guy with serious happiness issues. Having a girlfriend didn't fix any of that. In a room full of people who are each unable to be happy unless they're the highest status person in the room, all but one are guara…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/16 05:12 PM
6

Do you consider a man refusing his wife children cheating?
/r/PurplePillDebate16/11/16 10:20 PM
4

Seems to be based on whether they are treating you as higher or lower status rather than anything else.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/11/16 06:23 PM
6

Average cost of child support is like 430 a month, so around 93k total. Cost of hiring a gestational surrogate is is the 100-150k+ range. Probably only some part of that cost should be counted (payment to surrogate yes, medical yes, lawyers no), but the point remains: the market says that a pregnancy solely for another person's benefit is about the same value as your average child support obligation in its entirety. The correct comparison to the OP's scenario is a guy bullied into paying for a g…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/11/16 08:02 PM
2

Dad has a decent chance of getting away with not actually paying support too though.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/11/16 09:30 PM
3

It's mostly intended for informal sperm donations.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/11/16 06:41 PM
8

Only a third of women who are actually alcoholics have a kid with FAS - the amount of drinking required is usually pretty high. higher than modest social drinking. In addition male alcoholism pre-conception can also mess up kids. I lean towards legal. Some of the worst places for FAS are in reservations and such where all alcohol is banned, doesn't seem to help.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/11/16 03:39 PM
24

The thing about this argument that always amuses me is that guys always want this to be able to happen after sex. They want to benefit from ambiguity over whether they'd support a kid before the kid gets conceived and only go "haha no I think you and my kid are worthless" after the fact. This creates an environment where no relationship a woman has with a man is ever a safe place to reproduce - even a guy who you're married to or a guy who explicitly wants kids can bail. Ontario in Canada is wor…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/11/16 03:19 PM
3

Fetal alcohol syndrome is impacted by male pre-conception drinking. Should all drinking by fertile males be banned?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/11/16 03:04 PM
7

Except if you look at the GSS, number of sexual partners is strongly negatively correlated with reproductive success (number of children). On average, men with one lifetime partner have the most children within education brackets. Red Pill advice (get an education and become high income, sleep around, have children later if at all) leads to extremely low reproductive success.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/16 07:07 PM
3

unemployed men behave differently than unemployed women and provide much less relationship support labor http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/01/06/upshot/how-nonemployed-americans-spend-their-weekdays-men-vs-women.html?_r=2&abt=0002&abg=1
/r/PurplePillDebate30/10/16 08:36 PM
2

Yeah, it's disgust. The thing is feeling this kind of disgust is informative about the guy. It's strongly linked to social class cross-culturally. Haidt has a lot of interesting research on the topic.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/10/16 05:19 AM
6

It's funny how guys talk about this like men and women are equal height. A woman going for men taller than her is including a lot of people genetically shorter than her in her preference. It's no more ridiculous that an ordinary height guy refusing to date girls under 4'10".
/r/PurplePillDebate27/10/16 10:48 PM
1

https://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/prison/report4.html has more data and links to studies.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/10/16 03:43 AM
1

There are different prison cultures. I understand the UK still has a lot of sex in prison but a lot less rape. Sexual violence in the US prison system has a very strong racial component.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/10/16 07:21 PM
2

It's not necessarily what you do that matters. The most vulnerable population will be singled out regardless. If every prison rape victim disappeared tomorrow the system would turn on the most vulnerable of the remaining prisoners, despite them having done everything "right" to avoid being raped in the previous system.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/10/16 07:18 PM
5

Prison rape basically involves the same tactics used to pimp women out, used on men.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/10/16 07:14 PM
3

In societies where women don't get to meet strangers rapists target relatives.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/10/16 04:41 PM
3

The guys committing prison rape also tend to have histories with women. Grooming for prison sex is highly similar to grooming a woman for prostitution. Men as a group tend to have this category of "so low status I can do anything sexually to them I want" that they try to shove people into. Men aren't usually at risk of being put into this category except in prison and institutional settings but women always are.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/10/16 04:39 PM
7

tuition is way higher, housing (which impacts ability to payback) is way higher, wages haven't gone up nearly as much, people who graduated into a recession are making less than they would have if they graduated into a boom like you did through no fault of their own. My mother had student loans in the 70s - she could afford to pay them back and rent her own apartment in Boston on minimum wage. That world is long gone.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/10/16 05:56 AM
2

Long hair tends to look lighter/sunbleach.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/16 06:40 PM
3

I wonder how much student loans play into all this. If someone wants kids, it's reasonable to look for someone who will be able to jointly financially support kids within their fertility window. Many young men and women are drowning in debt.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/16 06:39 PM
3

Guys who have a high partner count have notably fewer kids than guys who get around less. Depending on relationship goals, that matters.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/10/16 04:17 AM
5

A woman can't necessarily predict how a guy is going to handle the transition to parenthood in advance of actually having a kid with him. A ton of guys handle it badly.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/10/16 01:26 AM
2

But guy A is reproductively successful in the sense he pairs up and has offspring, even though the 'effective population' model would predict he had no offspring at all. Reproductive success in humans in skewed. But it is not skewed such that 60% of adult males in a society have no offspring. The genetic data shows higher male effective population size because it's trying to fit a model which has assumptions like everyone mates entirely randomly and has a given distribution of offspring. But hum…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/16 04:44 AM
1

If guy A successfully reproduces and has 1 kid, and guy B successfully reproduces and has 80 kids, guy B is way more likely (but in no way guaranteed) to be part of the modern sample of Y chromosome variability. The point is guy A doesn't have to be sexually excluded for this to happen. If guy C's kids have a mutation that make them have 2% more kids, or guy D's kids end up prone to infertility...I'm not necessarily talking random drift. But a lot of things can happen. Human sex ratio itself can…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/16 01:20 AM
3

They are only looking at Y chromosomes and mtDNA trying to model things. They have no non-uniparental lineage data to work off of.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/10/16 10:26 PM
2

You're posting a pop science article and a study that contradicts it, both from before the 'cheap sequencing' era. The set of people with surviving Y lineages is a tiny subset of reproductively successful people as you go back in time. Y Chromosome Adam wasn't having 100% of the sex in his time period, he was having a small fraction of the sex. Same for the men who have living male descendents in each generation, they were not actually monopolizing women to the extent that 60% of (adult) men wer…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/10/16 08:27 PM
3

facepalm It is impossible to infer any information about the sex or reproductive life of a guy whose Y chromosome line did not survive long term from the mere fact that it did not survive. Henry VIII was not a kissless virgin.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/10/16 07:27 PM
2

This is scientifically illiterate. Not having living male line descendants does not mean they did not have sex. It does not mean they did not pair off. It did not mean they did not have children. It did not even mean that they didn't have many children. You can have sex with vast numbers of women and have 20 kids and still not have living male line descendants 2000 years later. Plenty of guys with on-demand access to large harems are in the 'failure' box here. So will the vast majority of modern…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/10/16 01:43 PM
2

average child support is way less than average daycare, so most men are getting a bargain and still being butthurt about it
/r/PurplePillDebate13/10/16 03:02 AM
2

Access to conception opportunities for women also used to be a legal obligation. Somehow men don't want that situation back...
/r/PurplePillDebate13/10/16 12:40 AM
4

should she never get a decrease if anything happens to him? guys want women to assume the downside risk while not benefiting from any of the upside risk.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/10/16 12:39 AM
3

someone working for room and board is a slave. marriage is a partnership. Would any intelligent IT guy would take a job where any income above subsistence was distributed in the company based on the income brought in (so it all went to sales?) If he gets all the money, he's monopolizing the gains from his paid labor AND the gains from her unpaid labor.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/10/16 12:34 AM
1

the recovery of abducted women post-partition
/r/PurplePillDebate12/10/16 05:20 AM
2

On average, men get an income boost from marriage compared to singles.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/10/16 10:54 PM
4

normally about 20% of people don't reproduce. A lot of people who would never have reproduced in any other era managed to do so in the 50s, leaving a legacy of messed-up-ness that's only just now managing to work itself out.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/10/16 06:59 PM
4

why isn't her companionship alone enough to get him to clean up after himself? She wouldn't have to clean up after him if she were single.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/10/16 06:04 PM
2

except the culture you are describing doesn't have undying loyalty either.. look at the women who were caught up in the pograms and abducted. They mostly returned to 'ew no you didn't kill yourself to make me feel better' from husbands and so on and got kicked out to be beggars and prostitutes.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/10/16 05:39 PM
1

Yet you feel entitled to women performing domestic chores, emotional support, and sex for their entire adult lives.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/10/16 04:54 PM
2

There's a lot more male rage at reproductive outcomes they don't want, demands women delay children for years or decades even within marriage and when the guy could support it.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/10/16 03:30 PM
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