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spiesvsmercs Archive

View 4 posts and 488 comments by spiesvsmercs on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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16

Depends on where you live, but it is worth looking up things like common law marriage, "palimony" and so on for your state/province.
/r/MensRights30/12/20 08:58 AM
3

Generally, both people should be contributing and functional. "Contributing" is deliberately vague.
/r/MGTOW210/12/20 12:24 AM
7

I don't even think it's that. It's when "happiness" became the reason for relationships. I'm an atheist but I (as an adult) recognized marriage for what it is: a partnership for a stable and sustainable society. That goes out the window if people think life is about your feels.
/r/MGTOW210/12/20 12:18 AM
21

Given a woman can use birth control, get an abortion, give a child up for adoption, or keep a child and milk a man for child support for 18+ years (some states and countries include college) whereas a man is simply ON THE HOOK based on what the woman wants, I'd say there's definitely some ways women are favored. More men die on the job, due to homicide and suicide, and have shorter lifespans.
/r/MensRights21/09/20 04:22 AM
2

Good point. We should acknowledge that men are perfectly capable of being exploitative jerks as well.
/r/MGTOW217/09/20 12:16 PM
1

Genetic heritage references that males in some animal groups will sacrifice themselves to protect the women and children, see the red colobus monkey. I don't think your other statements are entirely accurate or sum up all the dynamics at play. Have a lovely day.
/r/MensRights17/09/20 12:07 PM
2

Dude, male disposability is a thing because not every male is going to die and you're most likely to have men who are unskilled fighting. This also just goes back to our genetic heritage. I specified advanced civilization and you certainly do protect the skilled in societies with larger populations. Men are praised for being rational and less emotional. Not necessarily emotionless. There's a difference, and frankly what I've seen some people do, having rationality and self-control is obviously v…
/r/MensRights16/09/20 11:11 AM
2

Thinking that masculine traits are simply the traits of an "emotionless warrior" is the flaw in your thinking. Masculine traits have never been simply the capacity and willingness to do violence. Masculinity tends to be associated with competence, knowledge, and skills, and has been for a long time in any advanced civilization.
/r/MensRights16/09/20 06:49 AM
2

I think your point about feminism is right. I also think that women have a tendency to believe what they feel. Really, the best liars believe their own lies. They are a gender whose best strategy is to get knocked up by the best male then pretend to be loyal (and perhaps feel genuine love) to whoever will provide the most resources and security. Obviously, it's more complicated in practice...
/r/MGTOW215/09/20 06:14 PM
1

Well it's still perfectly cultural acceptable (or at least not reviled) for a woman to want a man to treat her a certain way or provide a certain lifestyle. Their optimal strategies are not 100% socially acceptable but are still more acceptable than ours. As I've said before, if a woman had to PLAN to screw me over I would be less worried. As is, our natural tendencies and the system's design will fuck us without any planned malevolence on the part of a woman.
/r/MGTOW215/09/20 01:22 PM
1

I think they do. Obviously they're harder to date at first (due to evolution) but I think women do simp for several years once they grow attached to a guy. They stop simping however once the emotions fade.
/r/MGTOW215/09/20 01:19 PM
1

Also there's variation between states if that isn't obvious to non-Americans.
/r/MGTOW215/09/20 12:56 PM
8

I'm not Canadian but I don't think you owe someone you're not married to, don't live with, and have no kids with, an extravagant monthly sum for a decade if you two break up. Like even if it was $2000 a month, a sum that is far more reasonable, it's still ludicrous that the courts are just going to arbitrarily take your money.
/r/MensRights12/09/20 02:14 AM
16

They don't, it'd be less egregious if it was something like $2000 a month, but that still implies that men must subsidize someone (FOR A DECADE) that they have no official legal relationship with.
/r/MensRights12/09/20 02:12 AM
1

Right, and evolutionarily it makes sense. The only caveat might be if the beta can provide resources that the alpha can't. This isn't even a terrible revelation: it just means that the (imperfect) systems we have (had) in place have some logic with regards to human behavior.
/r/MGTOW207/09/20 02:15 AM
2

You are missing my point. I agree but allowing a system unsympathetic to males to take your money and redistribute it (primarily to women) is also bad for men.
/r/MGTOW202/09/20 08:55 PM
1

Taxation is theft. (Ok, if you don't agree with that, at some point taxation + corruption/inefficiency most certainly equals theft.)
/r/MGTOW202/09/20 08:16 AM
1

I appreciate the response.
/r/MGTOW227/08/20 10:30 AM
1

Meh I think black pill is fine in the sense that people are (or easily can be) bastards and the system is setup to encourage women to be especially dastardly.
/r/MGTOW224/08/20 06:11 PM
1

What's the real mindfuck is that having a longterm relationship with a 9/10 girl who makes less than you or wants to be a stay at home mom for a long time is still a terrible idea. No winning if the game is rigged.
/r/MGTOW224/08/20 06:07 PM
1

Shitty systems encourage people to be shitty. What a surprise.
/r/MensRights17/08/20 03:12 AM
1

I was supporting your point but enjoy your rant.
/r/MGTOW214/08/20 09:25 PM
1

It's more than that. Women can trade sex for resources whenever they want.
/r/MGTOW212/08/20 10:42 PM
2

You're getting it confused. Women, unlike other animals, hide when they're fertile. So they can better trade sex for resources. If you can only get pregnant once, but you can trade sex for resources multiple times, then you try to get pregnant with the best mate and trade sex for resources as much as you can. It's just strategy.
/r/MGTOW212/08/20 10:41 PM
6

I'd suggest historically that the woman also supplied some home making labor and the kids you invested in would be the primary source of support as you age. Depending on the community, children could also represent future military and political support. The costs of relationships and raising children has simply become too damn high to justify for many.
/r/MGTOW210/08/20 03:46 AM
2

Part of the reason I dumped my last serious GF. 50-50 parenting time should result in no redistribution of wealth if both parents are making a living wage.
/r/MensRights08/08/20 04:16 PM
1

Difference is that producing children is actually useful. Also, generally men and society do provide support in return for producing children...
/r/MensRights06/08/20 04:57 PM
1

Focus on yourself. Realize that you THINK you want a relationship because you don't know the constant bullshit that comes with one. Realize that you can "win" but that comes by being smart and successful and not following the path society ordains.
/r/MGTOW228/07/20 06:10 PM
3

It's not just penguins. But sex not always producing offspring (or the fact that it's not obvious when a woman is fertile during her cycle) is probably so she is better able to trade sex for resources. Women can also give up the child after birth. I'd also rather go through 9 months of pregnancy and give the child up for adoption rather than have to pay, say 200k (300k before taxes) of child support. (Numbers will vary, of course.)
/r/MensRights27/07/20 03:55 AM
6

Given that primates and other non-human species (e.g. penguins, bats) trade resources (from the male) for sex (from the female), it's not rhetoric, it's biological fact. Ok, both men and women shouldn't reproduce irresponsibly, but given women can opt out at literally any stage of conception (or after it), it seems assinine that if the male makes the same mistake (doesn't use contraception) he is forced to support a child he doesn't want for 18+ years. If people behaved in an "ideal" fashion, we…
/r/MensRights26/07/20 10:53 PM
6

You realize that women are the gatekeepers of sex, right? A man who slays is clearly doing something right. That's why a man with multiple partners is respected: because he at least has some attribute that's respectable. A women who has sex indiscriminately is going to produce ten children that society then has to find some way of caring for. That's (historically) the problem. The fact that every woman can have sex easily quickly renders this a problem, especially if a large segment of the male …
/r/MensRights26/07/20 09:37 PM
2

This. People act according to their biology and their environments. I am just annoyed that the system is set up so having a relationship and children is such a stupid thing to do.
/r/MGTOW226/07/20 06:55 PM
4

Well said. Part of MGTOW is realising that women fail the basic cost benefit analysis most of the time in our society. Even if a woman brings net happiness (a dubious assumption), what are the associated costs and risks?
/r/MGTOW222/07/20 09:13 PM
7

This. I've never regretted breaking up with someone.
/r/MGTOW222/07/20 09:01 PM
2

True but he stated catastrophe: you can absorb a shock that brings you from 50% to 90% but maybe you can't absorb another shock at that point. Besides absorption into another tribe isn't genetic death. Dilution, yes, but not death. Introduction of new genetic material might even be a net positive.
/r/MensRights22/07/20 08:58 PM
4

Agreed. It's important to recognize the ways you are privileged as well as they ways you are disadvantaged.
/r/MGTOW222/07/20 12:25 AM
2

What this guy says. If she was an ex, who cares. The fundamental question is do you trust this guy enough to move in with him. If you trusted him enough before this, I wouldn't let this bother you. This is some seriously petty bullshit.
/r/MGTOW221/07/20 06:29 AM
15

You've seen that countries ranked higher on social equality have LESS women in STEM positions, right? It's clearly not just more equality = more women in STEM. It's cultural or perhaps has to do with relative economic security.
/r/MensRights20/07/20 06:35 AM
2

Good post, and good username. I'll check out your other posts.
/r/MGTOW218/07/20 08:47 AM
2

I think we naturally tend towards polygamy especially in close knit groups but there's obviously reasons why that can break down or why marriage makes sense. Basically, polygamy is going to favor the strong and sexy more than a society where everyone is married. I think there's at least one tribe where paternity includes everyone who had sex with the mother. A useful narrative for women and the group, a terrible narrative for Billy Beta who gets sex once in a blue moon.
/r/MGTOW218/07/20 08:32 AM
7

I think marriage has never been biologically natural but it's a stabilizing force for society. Marriages might be more workable when you have a degree of social shaming involved (which can be good or bad), and there are set expectations. Maybe when you have more family members around on one or both sides, that helps regulate behavior to a greater degree. Really, part of it is probably the idea that marriage to your partner is supposed to "complete you" - having a partner and family is only a par…
/r/MGTOW218/07/20 01:01 AM
21

What he did was dishonest, but having sex without revealing your number of current or past partners is not a crime. If you engage in casual sex, you accept the associated risks. Our society hates making women responsible for their actions.
/r/MensRights18/07/20 12:57 AM
3

I got married because I thought she was "enough" and it's the basis of our civilization. I respect that. However, if people are going to say marriage is for happiness then I'm going to suggest y'all don't get married.
/r/MGTOW215/07/20 06:45 AM
3

I also suck ass. I'm glad I'm not the only one. OP's post was a blessing in disguise with this revelation.
/r/MGTOW215/07/20 06:42 AM
2

What? Women can go after whoever they want. However, I'd say a man's money is his own and a woman (and to a lesser extent the State) isn't entitled to it.
/r/MGTOW215/07/20 06:41 AM
2

Right. The thing is that a woman doesn't have to plan to destroy you financially. She can love you for years, but if you position yourself poorly the system is set up to wreck you with her barely lifting a finger.
/r/MGTOW214/07/20 06:20 AM
6

I think being engaged more with hobbies and friends definitely helps, though it's harder to do during these days. Not to be cliche but idle hands are the tools of the devil, and in this case you should find things that you find meaningful and engaging. I would say that it might be okay to deal with women, but always stack the deck in your favor. At the minimum, never give a woman access or the right to your money.
/r/MGTOW213/07/20 07:09 AM
4

I think AWALT is inaccurate, but I think it serves as a cautionary warning. It's a more useful mentality to have.
/r/MGTOW211/07/20 03:39 PM
6

Well said. It is ultimately a systemic issue: if men would suffer no consequences from abandoning their family, more would do it. You can argue that it might be better than the current system, but you can't say that 65 to 80% of divorces being initiated by women is because men are simply more loyal. It's also because we are punished if we try to act to preserve our own happiness and sanity.
/r/MGTOW211/07/20 12:44 PM
6

Keep in mind that charities are often exploited by corrupt countries directly or indirectly. A corrupt bureaucrat has no issue impounding vehicles that will be used to deliver aid until they get their cut, or the charity will be providing services the government would provide themselves if they had to. Sometimes you're just giving the corrupt an incentive to let tragedy happen to their opposition groups to rake in aid money. Just throwing money at a problem isn't always a solution.
/r/MGTOW10/07/20 08:11 PM
17

Yeah, this is a systemic issue. More men would be jerks if we could bail from a marriage with no penalty. Women have always wanted to trade sex for resources and status, problem is the idea that they get it no matter what.
/r/MGTOW209/07/20 09:02 AM
2

Seriously, not gonna read all this crap but if there's a gofundme it seems like a ploy for cash.
/r/MGTOW09/07/20 06:00 AM
6

Best strategy is to invest as little as possible.
/r/MGTOW08/07/20 12:00 PM
8

I think there's truth to this, the difference is historically a man can walk away from a woman and her bullshit. These days you've got alimony, child support, and other relationship expenses. So men have to have higher standards than many do.
/r/MGTOW08/07/20 11:59 AM
6

Yes divorce laws will only change once women end up having to pay alimony to men on a semi-regular basis. (Currently it's very uncommon.) Alternately enough second wives get pissed that first wives are getting alimony.
/r/MGTOW208/07/20 03:02 AM
19

Yeah, AWALT. Fool around if you want but never give a woman access or legal rights to your money.
/r/MGTOW207/07/20 05:51 AM
1

In terms of expectations and happiness, I agree 100%. Happiness is primarily expectations. A man must always be able to walk away.
/r/MGTOW207/07/20 03:20 AM
4

Yeah. If you wanted to go to Europe and the cost was insignificant? Go for it. If not, screw that. Sex for resources has always been the trade, but in modern society a man pays before and a man pays after (for a long damn time.)
/r/MGTOW206/07/20 11:47 PM
11

I've tried relationships and found them wanting. If: A) the relationship costs you a trivial amount of money B) the time spent is primarily something you enjoy C) there is little long term liability for you Then perhaps it makes sense to pursue a relationship. However, you will likely find that a woman fails some or all of the above categories. I dumped my last serious GF when I realized that even if we were to have kids, divorce, and to share custody 50-50, and she made a decent salary (but les…
/r/MGTOW206/07/20 08:42 AM
2

I'm pretty sure Korean and Japanese men don't love what's going on over there either.
/r/MensRights04/07/20 04:50 PM
3

I would be more positive about relationships if once they were over, they were truly done. A man sacrificing during a relationship is far more tolerable than a man who must continue to sacrifice (alimony or child support) AFTER a relationship is over, especially if a woman is capable of supporting herself.
/r/MGTOW202/07/20 06:27 AM
3

Best thing for a man is to focus on the long term. Men can win but you have to play intelligently. Don't get trapped by marriage or child support. Do things you find meaningful.
/r/MGTOW229/06/20 03:53 PM
3

Two pieces of advice: become well paid and be able to operate outside the system. Figure it out.
/r/MGTOW228/06/20 07:49 PM
3

That I am entitled to from across the country and for 18 to 22 years.
/r/MGTOW226/06/20 05:20 PM
6

Literally says it's to further help women and minorities in the "in favor of" arguments of the bill.
/r/MensRights26/06/20 05:18 PM
7

It's to favor disadvantaged groups. At least when it came to education, there used to be Affirmative Action to help out African Americans (and I believe Latinos, since they also tend to be underrepresented) in California but the Asians got pissed off their hard working kids were losing positions to underachieving African Americans and the government was in the tough spot of trying to manage opportunities for two competing minority groups. Hilarious. Here's the pro arguments from the website (mak…
/r/MensRights26/06/20 04:05 PM
3

I'm going to say something controversial: I think it's OK for men and women to be sluts. BUT the taxpayer shouldn't have to fund babies without dads. Men should also be able to have a "financial abortion" - if the man didn't sign paperwork consenting to supporting a kid, then it's not his problem. A woman can use birth control, get an abortion, or put the child up for adoption. You have the right to be an idiot and make bad decisions. Other people shouldn't have to pay for it though. If your kid…
/r/MGTOW220/06/20 11:59 AM
16

I agree it's a problem but I don't think it's the biggest problem. One reason it's a problem is that there's not even a consequence for it in many cases, indeed, the cheater may even be rewarded. But the real truth is that marriage often doesn't make a man happier and imposes huge costs in time and money. I'm not going to risk my time and finances for the privilege of being nagged and occasional mediocre sex.
/r/MGTOW220/06/20 08:23 AM
1

I think happiness as a reason for being is bullshit, but I'd say modern life is only pointless if you think life as a whole is pointless. The world is a messed up place but the fact I can talk to you right now with ease and infant mortality rates are low are just a couple random examples why modern life is good. You just have to realize that the standard narrative sold to you by our culture is nonsense and you need to come up with something you'd be proud of accomplishing. Maybe you succeed, may…
/r/MGTOW220/06/20 12:03 AM
3

If penguins and primates are smart enough to trade sex for resources then humans are too. 'Nuff said.
/r/MensRights19/06/20 10:44 AM
5

At least make the obligations and responsibilities worthwhile! Letting yourself be spat upon while busting your ass isn't noble, it's idiotic.
/r/MGTOW218/06/20 12:33 PM
3

Marriage is a huge amount of work. Even if it's a good relationship that you value, it's still work. If you knew it was gonna be good, sure. But you don't. You really don't.
/r/MGTOW218/06/20 12:29 PM
62

As someone who has spent most of his adult life in committed relationships, it can be unwise to spend so much time with your partner that it causes you to neglect your old friends and hobbies. Regardless of your level of MGTOW (even if you're not) keep that in mind.
/r/MGTOW218/06/20 12:28 PM
10

Statistically, terrible for men. Of course it depends on your location and the demographics. It can work but generally, like all dating, it's a waste of time and money. Your odds are way better in person.
/r/MGTOW16/06/20 04:36 PM
18

It's literally the biological definition of success. Also, in the past either kids helped you out in the future or they weren't your problem. The fact that our society has turned them into these massive burdens that require a ridiculous investment (that you are legally obligated to fulfill) is a social problem, not a biological one.
/r/MGTOW15/06/20 09:09 PM
1

This is a good start. One thing that pissed me off is seeing that if two people are each making a living wage and taking care of the children 50/50 then the parent making more is expected to subsidize the other. Hell no. If one parent sacrificed their career then that can be handled via alimony.
/r/MensRights13/06/20 02:01 AM
23

The ultimate conclusion with the systems and data that we have is to invest in women as little as possible, with monk mode forsaking them entirely. Don't give a woman any inkling of power over you.
/r/MGTOW12/06/20 03:37 PM
2

Definitely this. I've had numerous discussions online where I initially disagreed, but over time I came to appreciate their perspective.
/r/MGTOW10/06/20 12:14 PM
4

Part of the problem is society has perpetuated an idea that a relationship with a woman is something to aspire towards. This is useful for women and society since it's one way of motivating (and using) men. Of course, we know that women are often a terrible liability. Women don't owe anyone love or sex. However, men don't owe them labor or money. Tax someone else.
/r/MensRights09/06/20 09:14 AM
5

While I think there is female cooperation, I think it's also reasonable to say that sons are going to be (at least somewhat) loyal to their mothers. As for the evolutionary aspect: women go through menopause so the argument is an elderly woman is worth more alive than a maybe-dead grandma but making children. A living grandma can watch kids, dispense wisdom, and promote social harmony (or an edge in conflict). The fact that a grandma may have a large number of loyal sons and daughters can play i…
/r/MensRights09/06/20 08:59 AM
5

I normally agree 100% but if you ever feel an honest-to-God deep in your gut reaction, and it feels VERY wrong, listen to it and re-assess. I can only remember one or two reactions like that in my life.
/r/MGTOW07/06/20 01:17 PM
6

Yeah, Doom Guy is heroically slaying demons and a demon is trying to stop him. Don't let women distract you from your goals.
/r/MGTOW05/06/20 02:42 AM
10

This. If she would've been left penniless I would've felt this was unjust... but six million at her age? She's set for life, a good life. Good for him.
/r/MGTOW31/05/20 02:30 AM
2

I think it partially has to do with expectations. A lot of people, women especially, buy into the idea you can have it all. You can't, you have to pick and choose what matters most to you. Throw in social media where women are constantly trying to one up each other and you've a shit storm.
/r/MGTOW30/05/20 02:07 PM
3

Yeah, the real truth is as long as you don't over-invest in a relationship then there's no reason to do harm to someone else. Of course, the narrative is that men should be constantly sacrificing for the sake of the relationship. Just don't.
/r/MGTOW26/05/20 07:18 AM
5

This is the way to do it. At least if you divorce right away then she has less claim to alimony and your property (depending on state / country I suppose.) Of course if you have to be having this conversation day 1 that's a huge red flag anyways.
/r/MGTOW26/05/20 07:15 AM
6

This. It seems terribly disingenuous to tell a young man to freely express his emotions when it's (sometimes) going to harm his personal and professional relationships. It's hard to argue with the idea of true equality but the simple truth is that the dynamics between the genders are not equal.
/r/MensRights24/05/20 09:17 AM
4

Yeah, I don't agree with this one. (Some) men will be lazy if they can. Same with women. Our society is just currently set up to allow women to be lazy which is why systemic changes need to occur to prevent that.
/r/MGTOW18/05/20 05:42 PM
79

The problem is that even if your marriage doesn't end in divorce, you're going to spend a significant portion of your life jumping through hoops to try to make some perpetually unsatisfied woman happy. Spending your life to put food on the table and a roof over someone else's head? Maybe worthwhile if they appreciated it. Maybe. There's no guarantee they will though. Then there's a chance they just steal half the roof and make you pay for maintaining it.
/r/MGTOW16/05/20 02:12 PM
2

Occasionally they do a few things that as a libertarian I agree with... but their lack of support for gun rights is why I never donated to them. Good to know there are other reasons.
/r/MensRights15/05/20 02:05 PM
10

Honestly it's at least partially this. When I was married, I was certainly defensive about some ideas that threatened the value of my relationship. I knew that part of my reaction was due to this, and if I encounter it in another person I'm at least partially sympathetic. It's part of the sunk cost fallacy - anything you've invested time and effort in you will defend or value. Hell, I'm not even adverse to someone defending and valuing their marriage. I get it. My issue is that most of the time …
/r/MGTOW12/05/20 10:10 AM
6

Crazy thought: a man should be able to both have kids and contribute to mankind.
/r/MGTOW28/04/20 09:13 AM
20

Right or given that women are only fertile during certain parts of their cycle it's completely viable for a woman to want Chad when they're fertile and the betabuxxer when they're not. Hell, they may even love the betabuxxer when they're not fertile! Then get pissed at him when they are and go find Chad.
/r/MGTOW29/03/20 08:01 AM
4

France and Germany. Somewhere I read it was to prevent people from using shady companies to avoid child support but France's statement on the subject also says it's to preserve the French notion of family. If your country's notion of family is some guy getting cucked and raising another man's kid without his knowledge, fuck you.
/r/MGTOW28/03/20 10:27 PM
1

Women are the worst investment of a man's time and resources.
/r/MGTOW18/02/20 10:07 AM
6

Exactly! People expect men to respect the shitty aspects of female behavior... the same sort of behavior that would have a man castigated by members of either gender! Similarly I've seen pseudo-feminist women bitch about how an equally competent man will be MORE confident in the workplace and thus be rewarded with more responsibility. They HATE that we are willing to take risks. (Let's not dwell on the fact that such risk taking can be both helpful and attractive depending on context and results…
/r/MGTOW16/02/20 01:58 PM
9

I'd also suggest that as property rights are eroded, we'll see a surge in out of wedlock pregnancies. If a man is going to be taxed to support single mothers or de facto taxed by child support, there's no strong financial incentive for women to marry or stay married... they can be utterly unreasonable and still derive the financial security that men provide. You could read this as "financial considerations trap women in relationships" but that ignores things like men dying on the job, working lo…
/r/MGTOW12/02/20 04:19 AM
6

What? Maybe in certain parts of Canada but in the US common law marriage is not nearly so easy and in the US you must present yourselves as such to friends and associates. (Check your state laws.)
/r/MGTOW11/02/20 03:54 PM
53

Disney stories leave out the fact that "happily ever after" means a lifetime of shit tests, wasted money, and pointless work.
/r/MGTOW08/02/20 03:24 PM
3

Good point, I forgot to switch to Duckduckgo on my new phone.
/r/MGTOW08/02/20 03:16 AM
39

Don't worry, the government would kick in your door and threaten you with jail or violence if you did that. Our society does suffer from sexism, including sexist notions that women are nobler than men. Women will happily be parasites if society lets them (men too but generally society and biology tries to prevent that more rigorously).
/r/MGTOW04/02/20 01:37 PM
2

I think this is true. I also think that monogamy isn't natural. Trading sex for favors makes sense at a tribal level and can keep a tribe functioning. Can an alpha keep all the pussy for himself? Sure. But he gets murdered by the betas, like chimps do if one male restricts access to sex excessively. So it's easier just to let everyone have sex sometimes, keeps everyone cooperating, and then your tribe can wreck the tribe next door that's broken down due to infighting. Problem these days is that …
/r/MGTOW22/01/20 11:00 AM
11

Some of the unhappy single men probably THINK they want a family but were unable to. They did not experience the actual hardship that relationships and children entail so they think they're missing out. Happiness is more about perception than reality.
/r/MGTOW19/01/20 10:14 AM
0

I think you're technically correct but I assume that some of those sick days are caring for children etc.
/r/MensRights18/01/20 07:56 AM
1

Given that we're expected to be breadwinners, crime and violence is also a way of winning bread for the uneducated and unskilled.
/r/MensRights08/01/20 10:35 AM
5

Because for a goodly portion of history there were enforcement mechanisms to help keep women from following their whims and being disloyal. Those have been removed. Our current state is the result.
/r/MGTOW25/12/19 11:10 AM
4

Yes, they have bought into an ideology that renders them evolutionarily unfit. There is more to life than children and a family, but making spreadsheets for corporate isn't it.
/r/MGTOW22/12/19 02:21 AM
8

This. Working out a few hours every week is objectively good.
/r/MGTOW17/12/19 10:24 AM
7

Don't forget her father is the reason she's successful.
/r/MGTOW14/12/19 12:57 AM
11

Other characters were screwed harder but they still messed up his arc (the Hound is probably my favorite.) Dude had a near death experience and was nursed back to health by monks who probably showed him more compassion than he had ever personally received. He shouldn't have died pointlessly fulfilling an old vendetta.
/r/MGTOW01/12/19 04:07 AM
1

Exactly. Men and women can both be shit. Current system encourages women to be shittier than men.
/r/MGTOW27/11/19 08:32 AM
4

Guys chasing girls is the normal social narrative dude.
/r/MGTOW27/11/19 08:30 AM
3

Or when the article mentions men texting their wives for input about a task, the author (tactfully) omits another reason: that the men have been chewed out so frequently for failing to do things EXACTLY the way the wife wants that they've learned the best way to deal with this is to be clear on what she wants.
/r/MensRights26/11/19 10:08 AM
8

A woman is the worst investment a man can make. You can invest your time far more wisely in other pursuits. Maybe if there was economic/legal/social enforcement of traditional marriages then you could at least be reasonably confident your effort would pay off. (Or she would at least be punished for violation of norms.)
/r/MGTOW26/11/19 08:39 AM
6

Exactly. Woman down on her luck? At worst, she can trade sex for food and shelter.
/r/MGTOW26/11/19 02:31 AM
3

Exactly. Even apes will murder an alpha male who doesn't let the betas have sex. Besides this way every male has a stake in society and every female has a provider. Otherwise the weak and ugly are left out in the proverbial cold.
/r/MGTOW16/11/19 02:57 PM
6

Yeah. T2 is great. Sarah Connor is a great multi-faceted character. Does she hate men like Dyson who created Skynet and nukes? Yeah. She's also been institutionalized for years and spent her life gearing up for a war that everyone else thinks is crazy. Her behavior is arguably rational but she's definitely a little unhinged. Her rant against men isn't some half-assed Starbucks feminist tirade, it's coming from someone who's willing to murder an arguably innocent man (the guy she's talking to in …
/r/MensRights09/11/19 08:54 AM
5

It's like a micromanaging boss who always expects you to be busy.
/r/MGTOW29/10/19 11:51 AM
2

You're absolutely right and that may be the rational move in the future. It'd just be an easier decision to make if it would only be a small pay cut (a profession where remote work was commonly accepted etc.) rather than a large one. Especially since I can travel frequently in my current job at least.
/r/MGTOW28/10/19 09:43 AM
7

Society's narrative is that women should only have sex if they want to and they are entitled to a man's labor regardless of relationship status. It's as if women want to trade sex for attention/favors/resources and good genetics. If society tells them they don't have to have sex with their beta bucks, they won't.
/r/MGTOW28/10/19 09:36 AM
1

The West has gone too far but a spouse shouldn't be entitled to sex. However, a spouse shouldn't be entitled to attention, housing, or money either. (Realistically each spouse should fulfill the other's needs.) Problem is society expects men to fulfill most of their traditional obligations while a woman shirks hers.
/r/MGTOW27/10/19 09:26 AM
20

Right. Society doesn't have to give a damn about men's well being when laws dictate that society (taxes, child support, alimony) is OWED what a man earns. I really wish I had chosen a profession that lets me be an expat. I could but I'd certainly be taking a pay cut.
/r/MGTOW27/10/19 08:54 AM
14

If there were ways to enforce both sides (economically, legally, socially) then I'd be OK with marriage. As is, its lost its greatest strength: reliability.
/r/MGTOW24/10/19 09:01 AM
7

Ugly women also end up pregnant with no support. Kids starve. Marriage provides stability for the "weak" of each gender. If she wants to remove the government and have life be a free for all, I think it won't work out as well as she thinks...
/r/MGTOW18/10/19 10:04 PM
2

Partially it's reproductive age concerns but I agree. The 35 year old woman is desperately scrambling to find someone to "settle" for. The younger woman has options and she's (more likely to be) satisfied with you.
/r/MGTOW16/10/19 08:16 AM
13

I think this is true of people in general, but especially women. It's the predictable result when you have an entire culture built around following your emotions. Feelings change, and thus so do your wants.
/r/MGTOW15/10/19 12:52 PM
5

Also if a man sacrifices himself for no reason (no pay, no sex) then he's probably going to die childless. A man MUST demand payment for his services or he will simply be used.
/r/MGTOW14/10/19 05:59 AM
8

In Rome, a prominent figure was once mocked for loving his (much younger) wife. I think we should be questioning why we have been sold this narrative that the love of another is what defines and validates us. Does a woman love you? Who cares?
/r/MGTOW13/10/19 08:01 AM
2

It's not even about our egos being fragile... It's just I don't think having a lifelong relationship with someone who treats sex casually is a wise choice.
/r/MGTOW11/10/19 03:12 AM
13

Right: women are more likely to divorce in the first place and if you die in her care, she gets the money anyways.
/r/MGTOW07/10/19 06:28 PM
5

Exactly. If a woman had to meticulously plan this out for years to make it work then I wouldn't worry. The fact they can just follow standard NPC programming and destroy you is what's worrisome.
/r/MGTOW07/10/19 04:20 PM
6

Because it's a stereotypical activity that women want to do on a day off and if a man begs off all he gets is a pissed off partner and his day is ruined anyways.
/r/MGTOW07/10/19 04:14 PM
5

What makes women such consummate liars is that sometimes they do love you. Except love is a fleeting and volatile emotion. These fluctuations will give them the perfect excuse to either cheat on you (during a small flux) or end the relationship (the feeling is gone). I don't care if a woman loves me, I just need her to fulfill her obligations.
/r/MGTOW06/10/19 03:20 AM
3

I still maintain part of the problem is our society's notion that (effectively) women are entitled to the fruit of a man's labor even if they have no active relationship. No sex no money. Taken to extremes it's barbaric but there's a reason why a man had a right to sex with his wife: otherwise the old AFBB dynamic comes into play.
/r/MGTOW03/10/19 04:12 PM
3

I think part of it is that any stable relationship implies that they can get whatever they want (attention, money, projects) out of the stable guy WITHOUT sex. If the relationship is unstable, what can you do to improve your relationship with a man? Give him sex. It doesn't explain everything (sometimes bad boy is just more attractive etc).
/r/MGTOW03/10/19 04:08 PM
31

I love the "beware of dog" mosaic in Pompeii at the entrance to a house and the cocks pointing the way to brothels is pretty funny too.
/r/MGTOW03/10/19 06:48 AM
6

If women weren't legally entitled to a man's labor, or there were legal/social punishments for divorce and infidelity then maybe things would be OK. Instead you often have incentivized people (mostly women) to break their oaths. What do you THINK will happen?
/r/MGTOW30/09/19 09:30 AM
7

Seriously I remember meeting up with some college student in NYC and when I said it's not a man's job to make a woman happy she just replied, "Yes it is!" Ridiculous.
/r/MGTOW30/09/19 09:28 AM
2

Well said. This sub can be nihilistic, and at least a small reason for why I'm currently working out is so I can pull a guy aside and say: "Trust me dude, women are overvalued." I'm reasonably attractive and successful already but having complete superiority when I'm shitting on our modern cultural memes would be nice.
/r/MGTOW29/09/19 10:10 AM
3

I'm glad you posted your original comment: if an 80 year old can run a marathon or a 70 year old can beat up a burglar, you can manage to walk around your house when you're old.
/r/MGTOW29/09/19 08:28 AM
2

Does it explain better elsewhere? Because it seems like they're trying to redefine hypergamy as "preference" when really it's more like the dual mating strategy on steroids.
/r/MGTOW19/09/19 11:56 PM
2

Right. I'm all for being pro-social but a well designed society should REWARD pro-social behavior. Developed nations seem to have forgotten that.
/r/MGTOW17/09/19 06:35 PM
7

Not when the government takes it from you to fund their bad choices!
/r/MGTOW16/09/19 05:18 PM
16

Sure. If a 25 year old women told me she'd slept with a couple guys previously in multi-year relationships, I'd have zero problem with that. I don't expect her to be a virgin, but I do prefer she take sex as a sign of serious commitment.
/r/MGTOW16/09/19 05:17 PM
7

And our society keeps pushing us in this direction: rather than appreciate the rationality that brought us scientific thinking our new generations are being taught to feel rather than think.
/r/MGTOW16/09/19 09:33 AM
2

I'm glad there was some clapping when he said that all he wanted was due process when it comes MeToo.
/r/MGTOW16/09/19 08:39 AM
11

Only way the laws will change is if men start raking women over the legal coals when we have the chance.
/r/MGTOW11/09/19 06:52 AM
4

I think if the attractive ex predated him entirely then maybe he'd be too sensitive. The fact she was fucking a hotter dude who then dumped her (I assume) and now they're back together... It should sting and he should have stayed away.
/r/MGTOW09/09/19 08:05 PM
2

I appreciate the counterpoint. Nice username BTW.
/r/MGTOW08/09/19 12:49 AM
4

Only misplay on his part is telling her the reason. Letting women know this simply encourages them to be more duplicitous. (Also she could falsely accuse you if she thinks it's a "double standard.")
/r/MGTOW08/09/19 12:45 AM
2

Dude, where are you getting this? Also if you were a soldier were you even subject to state law for housing allowance or were you following national guidelines? I did find one site that said that it might be possible if you had a contract, gave up your career, etc but Marvin Vs Marvin, the woman wanting palimoney lost because she (supposedly) relied on an oral agreement. "The Truth About Common Law Marriage & “Palimony” in California" suggests you'd essentially need a contract to get palimoney, …
/r/MGTOW07/09/19 12:44 PM
5

I think it's 10 for California but at least the state lacks cohabitation laws.
/r/MGTOW06/09/19 10:50 AM
1

See, the nature of women doesn't matter as much if: A) you don't overinvest in them. B) the laws don't screw you. She decides to cheat or leave or become a worthless jobless slob? You walk away and find someone younger and better.
/r/MGTOW05/09/19 10:18 AM
5

I'll get married once polygamy becomes legal. Apparently, several women competing for the attention of one spouse is the only way for them to self-police their behavior. Seriously wondered about this in terms of female behavior and their tendency towards social conflict.
/r/MGTOW05/09/19 10:15 AM
2

Literally told my soon to be ex wife this when I was talking to her on the phone.
/r/MGTOW05/09/19 10:09 AM
3

Section 8 is a joke. One article said paying individuals more Section 8 money to live in nicer areas improved outcomes... no shit. I'm OK with the State providing essentials but essentials doesn't mean taxing me more so someone can live for free in a nicer (but more expensive) area.
/r/MGTOW04/09/19 07:44 AM
4

Right. There are plenty of men out there who have had sex rarely or not at all. Given this scarcity of sex, they never ask themselves if it's actually worth the trouble.
/r/MGTOW02/09/19 12:43 PM
2

I do think the $250k is including the housing expense, which is only true if you're buying a larger property to house the kids. (Granted, you may be doing that.)
/r/MGTOW02/09/19 07:00 AM
29

More taxes levied on men to support the single mothers who chose to keep their kids.
/r/MGTOW02/09/19 06:53 AM
3

So much this. With my last ex (before I went MOW) I could literally walk away when she was being intolerable. What recourse does a man have in a modern marriage? None.
/r/MGTOW31/08/19 03:54 AM
15

Right. You talk about why junk food is bad because it IS tempting. You remind yourself why it's bad for you.
/r/MGTOW29/08/19 02:11 AM
1

I think some of what you post is a stretch (I don't think watching porn makes you a cuck.) However, I do think making sure you spend your time in ways you find meaningful is important.
/r/MGTOW25/08/19 03:17 AM
95

Friend of mine when he joined up explicitly told me about how awful marriage rates were for military personnel. At least he knew going in. If they can't handle straight facts, fuck'em.
/r/MGTOW24/08/19 08:12 PM
1

Right, the AF BB dynamic of marriage ensures BB gets to fuck while contributing to society, thus ensuring they have a stake in civilization.
/r/MGTOW24/08/19 12:21 PM
6

Marriage is a compromise between the AF BB dynamic. BB gets regular access to sex in exchange for resources and women were socially shamed for straying and/or physical violence enforced this (possibly on the man who was fucking your wife.) Under the current conditions, marriage is absolutely irrational if there is income disparity.
/r/MGTOW24/08/19 12:19 PM
36

Men are selected for their wealth. Women generally aren't. So, a woman can accrue debt and then men will bail her out, directly (relationships) or indirectly (taxes).
/r/MGTOW24/08/19 12:37 AM
1

... I am wary of the State, but he did not go through any official channels (except a contract, but we all know contracts cannot modify child support), he just responded to an internet ad.
/r/MGTOW22/08/19 03:05 AM
1

Probably true based on my limited real world knowledge. (Again, like I said: a woman CAN get a new partner... Just not necessarily one she wants or will stay with her.)
/r/MGTOW21/08/19 11:24 PM
16

Seriously, she describes him as a good father...
/r/MGTOW21/08/19 02:33 PM
3

Right. Part of the issue is that marriage strips men of power. The government will redistribute their wealth to the woman, and while women lose value as they age, it is always easier for a woman to rebound than a man (even if the new man won't stick around, or is of lower quality than the last.) Ultimately, a man sacrifices his own potential by being in a relationship. (Note: some men may be motivated by their relationship, but lack of motivation outside of a relationship is a personal failing.)
/r/MGTOW21/08/19 11:42 AM
1

... you realize birth rates are plummeting in every developed nation, right? Women working requires nations to import outside population. Besides, who is going to enact and enforce a reduction in males?
/r/MensRights20/08/19 01:49 AM
1

Meh, I think it's likely that at that point said society would fall either from within or without.
/r/MensRights19/08/19 01:37 PM
5

Men becoming increasingly taxed to support women and children they have no relationship with? Dying for, as well, since males have shorter lifespans and higher incidences of mortality. Of course, an obvious solution is to then opt out of a society offering unfavorable terms, but that will be to our civilization's detriment.
/r/MensRights19/08/19 08:01 AM
5

I liked it personally. Granted, maybe there's a better way to phrase it. These clowns saying those words require a thesaurus? Sum is the only (slightly) uncommon word.
/r/MGTOW18/08/19 10:08 PM
3

Depends: is society now going to subsidize raising her children? Your tax dollars at work.
/r/MGTOW16/08/19 10:58 PM
29

One of my exes was offended when I told her I'd DNA test our kids (if we had any). Even if I'm 99% sure you're absolutely faithful, that 1% is worth testing for.
/r/MGTOW16/08/19 09:14 AM
8

And even if they decide they won't shock you now, they have the option of shocking you decades in the future if things change. Why put yourself in that situation?
/r/MGTOW16/08/19 09:11 AM
28

Meh, it's multi-factorial: Online dating/anonymity of behavior. Change in cultural and social values. Throw in a legal system that assumes the above hasn't changed in decades... and you have a system where a man can easily be exploited.
/r/MGTOW15/08/19 12:27 PM
3

Right. I don't need a woman's love, but if there is no guarantee (or at least a very high chance) of trust and reliability, then there's literally no point to put effort into a relationship.
/r/MGTOW14/08/19 06:55 AM
1

Yup. At least if she's working the financial damage she can do is reduced.
/r/MGTOW14/08/19 06:51 AM
22

Well done man! Think you're probably a lot happier with your job and your life than you would be otherwise.
/r/MGTOW14/08/19 06:50 AM
1

So much this. As most men here, including myself, have been in long-term committed relationships: these experiences have taught us the folly of investing in others. Don't sacrifice your personal goals for those of another.
/r/MGTOW14/08/19 01:41 AM
1

Dude, maybe you make nothing but for us who make a decent salary the number could easily be 5x the amount you stated... with shared custody, and a woman who has a job of her own!
/r/MGTOW10/08/19 05:59 PM
2

Sure, you don't know the offspring is yours, hence dual mating strategy. Regardless the woman is investing resources into producing and rearing the child. The man isn't required to invest resources after the act.
/r/MGTOW09/08/19 03:33 AM
2

Biologically, women were the prize. You have sex with a woman and get her pregnant? It's her problem, so you have to work for sex. Now, add legal and social systems and it gets complicated. These days: a pregnant or married woman could easily destroy you financially so smart men realize that women are no longer as valuable.
/r/MGTOW08/08/19 11:23 PM
1

I don't know if it's worse, but it definitely has issues of its own.
/r/MGTOW08/08/19 04:55 PM
2

Absolutely true. Don't look to another for happiness. Men and women can both be immoral, but our systems enable the latter more than the former.
/r/MGTOW07/08/19 11:09 PM
2

Good comic. A lot of men could use similar advice.
/r/MGTOW03/08/19 10:59 AM
3

Reasonable child support is fine. The amount I could be paying (if I had kids) to a working adult making a decent wage is fucking absurd.
/r/MGTOW03/08/19 02:41 AM
6

I agree except that if she were to get knocked up OR he married her, then even if he wized up later he'd still be boned by our legal system.
/r/MGTOW03/08/19 02:40 AM
2

Women can have sex with whoever they want. The rest of society should not have to subsidize that decision. Conversely, if society is going to subsidize bad choices, society needs to constrain the ability to make bad choices.
/r/MGTOW31/07/19 08:54 AM
5

Interesting. Women are more likely to be obese or extremely obese. Men are more likely to be overweight... but obviously BMI is a poor indicator for some men.
/r/MGTOW30/07/19 02:00 PM
8

The primary issue is that a man can spend his life working for the betterment of his family, only to have that snatched away by a deceptive woman and our legal system. Worse yet, he may have to continue slaving away for years or decades afterwards. That's the primary issue. My advice is to sacrifice nothing you will regret for a woman. We must educate men so they do not fall prey to predatory practices.
/r/MGTOW30/07/19 01:37 PM
4

Don't advocate criminal behavior on a subreddit that others want to shut down. Please.
/r/MGTOW29/07/19 01:40 PM
6

So much this. Maybe under different conditions you could justify a relationship, but under our current legal and social environment women are a horrid investment.
/r/MGTOW25/07/19 01:13 PM
8

At least he isn't one of those multi-millionaire fools who keeps getting re-married.
/r/MensRights25/07/19 11:09 AM
2

My personal ideal would be allowing women abortions and allowing men to opt out of child support. I am much less sympathetic to the pro-abortion position these days, though.
/r/MensRights21/07/19 09:21 AM
12

Oh I absolutely agree. Well, more specifically, they are going to be unhappy regardless... and sacrificing your happiness for marginal and temporary increases in their happiness is foolish. I went MGTOW after realizing that putting effort into my relationship with a young and very pretty woman was ultimately a losing proposition. So I dumped her and now I'm here.
/r/MGTOW20/07/19 12:18 PM
1

Right. Thanks for reducing my incentives to contribute to society, society. Kids would be nice but I'm pretty sure I don't need them, or a woman, to enjoy my life.
/r/MGTOW20/07/19 08:10 AM
46

Even if they don't cheat, who wants to spend their life jumping through hoops to make them happy? Cheating is less important than the opportunity costs imposed by modern relationships.
/r/MGTOW20/07/19 06:37 AM
5

Eh, if she's been unemployed then that could be a financially disastrous move for him. One reason why you can't let a woman "stay home and take care of the kids" even if you wanted to.
/r/MGTOW19/07/19 08:15 AM
4

As someone who posts in MGTOW, and once divorced (mostly scott free), I do think MGTOW can sometimes be overly venomous. However obviously some are new guys with a fit of "red pill rage." Frankly I went MGTOW when I realized that women are essentially overvalued (especially in a relationship sense) in our society, and that the winning move is not to play. In sum, no relationship I've ever had is worth risking my financial freedom. Men can be shit, women can be shit, but society enables the latte…
/r/MensRights15/07/19 03:30 PM
1

When I realized having a serious relationship with a sweet and beautiful woman was not worth the time and effort. Women are negative value.
/r/MGTOW14/07/19 02:52 PM
6

Meh, he at least had the balls to break up with her. Being charitable about your ex isn't a black mark. Maybe there were red flags (like how often was she hanging out with other guys?) but at least he finally stood up for himself.
/r/MGTOW12/07/19 07:11 AM
2

The guard represents those who sacrificed their freedom and heroic potential for family.
/r/MGTOW11/07/19 11:28 PM
2

I think it could be interpreted as a humorous dig at the archetype of the fantasy adventurer hero... like dude, why are you risking your life in forgotten tombs? You hoping you'll get offered a real job soon? The MGTOW undertone is if you take the view that the PC is indeed a heroic individual.
/r/MGTOW11/07/19 11:26 PM
9

Well, the thing is, for most of ANIMAL history women were the prize: a male can have sex and have kids with no further obligation. Females have to at least invest gestation at a minimum. However, that's no longer the case. Now that a child is essentially a lifelong commitment, the ability to gestate a child is no longer especially worthwhile in a first world environment.
/r/MGTOW11/07/19 06:37 AM
8

This. If you got laid but you spent too much effort or expense, you still lost.
/r/MGTOW10/07/19 09:15 AM
1

I think it's 1gm per kg (2.2 lbs), which is why 80 grams will work for most folks.
/r/MGTOW10/07/19 09:12 AM
42

Exactly my concern. Women can do what they want and fuck who they want. But don't make me pay for it.
/r/MGTOW09/07/19 12:21 PM
2

Honestly, this isn't great but it isn't awful... at least she feels like she owes him something. That's way better than a woman who thinks her partner has to "put her in the mood" first. Assuming she's willing to exert a little effort (maybe a big assumption), I think they could make it kinky and interesting.
/r/MGTOW09/07/19 08:27 AM
8

Well he's partially correct in that it uses energy, and thus does produce heat... But civilization is essentially defined by utilisation and capture of energy so, minimizing losses due to entropy isn't really our objective.
/r/MGTOW09/07/19 08:22 AM
5

Not going to protect assets acquired after a marriage.
/r/MGTOW09/07/19 07:03 AM
4

Right, more than that SHE could have cheated and she'd still be raking in billions.
/r/MGTOW09/07/19 07:03 AM
134

A fine phrase, and befitting our conditions. Ultimately, I'm OK with serving, but give me an incentive. Our legal system theoretically allowing a cheating thot to rob me of my money is not it.
/r/MGTOW06/07/19 09:38 AM
3

I'd suggest yes should be the answer to the former. No to the latter. (Any adopting parent must be financially secure, I'm sure.)
/r/MGTOW05/07/19 08:03 PM
6

Some are more conservative and abortions are seen as generally preventable. I'm pro-abortion. Give women access to abortions! Just allow men to opt out of child support during or before any pregnancy.
/r/MGTOW05/07/19 12:20 PM
2

If the men spend literally nothing but their seed to do it... I could understand that. Woman might not have your kid, but if you expend no effort for the chance then it makes biological sense. Obviously men are unwilling to exert much effort to sleep with such a loose woman.
/r/MGTOW05/07/19 08:47 AM
6

Right. Men have to invest in women since women would traditionally invest the biological resources and time to rear the children. A man could also choose to "opt out" at any time for much of history. Now a man MUST stay in a relationship, financially, regardless of a woman's behavior and in some cases must even provide for children who are not his. Ludicrous. The game's changed, adjust your play accordingly.
/r/MGTOW05/07/19 06:37 AM
3

The real problem is men have been programmed that they must provide and sacrifice for a woman. Just follow Briffault's Law and remember to sacrifice nothing for a woman.
/r/MGTOW04/07/19 11:25 AM
22

This. People have conflicting interests and needs. Laws and society are a major reason we do not behave like beasts. No relationship I've had has ever been so good that I would gamble my life and future on it.
/r/MGTOW04/07/19 09:29 AM
2

Eh I think you can have friends from school and work. Assuming you don't spend too much time with them outside of those areas. However if you're frequently going out of your way to hang out with them, you probably want to tap that or you need some more friends/hobbies.
/r/MGTOW29/06/19 03:59 PM
3

Seriously. I could foresee the State forcing that. Obviously it's retroactively punishing and massively unjust but you will have the reduced state tax burden, a small group of screeching single/lesbian women, and a generally apathetic remainder of the population.
/r/MGTOW29/06/19 02:47 PM
11

Right. Women will sacrifice pay for quality of life.
/r/MGTOW29/06/19 02:32 PM
18

More specifically why do we need to make women feel safe when we're engaging in completely inoffensive behavior? Maybe we should just give women a few courses on statistics to TRY to teach them how unlikely it is a random man will try to rape them, for instance. Instead we coddle them despite living in the safest time in human history. They need to "woman up."
/r/MGTOW26/06/19 11:42 PM
3

Sure, I don't think any subs I visit would, but I don't need to be subbed here to enjoy the content.
/r/MGTOW26/06/19 08:49 PM
6

Dude, not even subbed so I don't get autobanned.
/r/MGTOW26/06/19 01:02 PM
3

Sure. Limited alimony and child support is something I'm fine with. Too many feminists simply use that title to indicate they perceive themselves as perpetual victims.
/r/MensRights24/06/19 08:56 AM
1

One of my exes told me that her arm was based off a man's.
/r/MGTOW24/06/19 05:50 AM
3

Good answer man. Both men and women can be shit. However, our justice system paired with our sexual dimorphism (women select for wealth etc) means that our system encourages women to be bad while reining in poor male behavior.
/r/MGTOW23/06/19 01:26 PM
1

Their aim is to keep men working for the system and to stay in miserable marriages, otherwise the state might have to provide for a woman and children. Remember: you must keep making the same amount of money according to the courts. Take a more fulfilling job that pays less? Nope, keep working yourself to death for a dead relationship.
/r/MGTOW23/06/19 07:28 AM
2

What makes it even worse is if you marry or have kids the government will just TAKE your money from you. It's one thing for women to want resources: a man can always say no. Once the government is involved you no longer have that choice and that power.
/r/MGTOW22/06/19 06:47 AM
3

Same. Make sacrifices like society tells you and what will it get you? A stone weighing you down as a prize.
/r/MGTOW21/06/19 09:10 PM
1

Per incident? I mean, white men are about 5x more common in the US. Also, if black men are more likely to be stopped on minor offenses then maybe that explains the discrepancy. White man here... perhaps you're right regarding shootings but I think it's hard to say that black men do not suffer from more hardship especially from systemic forces.
/r/MensRights21/06/19 07:52 AM
0

I'm not saying all women are like this, but do you want to gamble your future on your partner staying the way she is... after marriage, children, and decades together? Or maybe you just decide to live life alone but otherwise on your terms?
/r/MGTOW21/06/19 07:40 AM
23

Seriously, having survived through my own marriage and seeing what my parents' marriage has become... really feels like the only winning move is not to play.
/r/MGTOW21/06/19 07:39 AM
1

I assume simpering, perhaps?
/r/MGTOW21/06/19 07:35 AM
6

Fair advice. It's not white knighting if it's family... well if it's family and you're acting reasonably. It's possible you don't have to get involved: if you're in a first world country, then the fact she moved out delivers her message. Really, I'm not sure what you can meaningfully contribute other than being there for your sister.
/r/MGTOW20/06/19 10:07 AM
3

You know I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of a responsible man (or woman) sacrificing some of their happiness for their family and society. The issue I have is that all your sacrifice can easily be used against you, and there are no longer any cultural or legal safeguards to encourage people to do "the right thing." Thus the wise man sacrifices nothing for a woman.
/r/MGTOW19/06/19 01:45 PM
6

Dude... It's because white men are viewed as higher status. That's what they mean by dominant. You better be a teen or younger to be asking such nonsense.
/r/MensRights19/06/19 09:54 AM
3

Exactly. A woman can have literally no redeeming virtues and sleep with hundreds of guys in a year if she wanted.
/r/MGTOW17/06/19 03:37 PM
3

Eh, plenty of women enjoy COOKING (not just washing dishes) more than repairing cars. I appreciate your empathy though.
/r/MGTOW17/06/19 02:56 PM
6

Meh I'm not sure if it's so simple. Women want good genes, favors, and resources. They can trade sex for favors and resources. Men will provide favors and resources for sex. Some offspring may result from that. Of course men aren't required to continuously provide resources. Ultimately marriage benefits the "weakest" of each gender and society as a whole. Remember: no matter how alpha a male is, if he gets massacred by a gang of beta males that's not good for the group either. Keeping the beta m…
/r/MGTOW15/06/19 08:25 PM
1

Also, let's be real: women select for wealth and often push to be a homemaker. Any man who marries a woman who makes substantially less than he does or allows her to be a homemaker is in for a world of hurt. Don't marry or have kids with someone who makes less than you. Welcome to America's New Class System.
/r/MensRights14/06/19 10:09 AM
14

Seriously. A woman cheats on you? Only a problem if you sacrificed too much for her. Unfortunately they got kids and he undoubtedly makes more than her. Sorry men, if you're going to marry a woman or have kids then you gotta make sure she makes money otherwise the taxman coming for you.
/r/MGTOW13/06/19 03:46 PM
3

Eh problem with that is it's easier for a woman to cheat and with the advent of paternity tests and child support the man no longer shares less risk.
/r/MGTOW13/06/19 02:44 PM
3

Yeah I think this is the real issue: You get married or have kids (you know, those things required for society to sustain itself), then suddenly she has financial leverage over you and you CAN'T walk away.
/r/MGTOW13/06/19 02:43 PM
29

Honestly that's... OK. Depends how old she is. I think MGTOW gets caught up on sex and attractiveness. That's important but really I would be willing to settle for a chill and kind partner that doesn't require much sacrifice. Granted if she's an aging, nagging harpy then fuck that lifestyle. (And obviously I think this is more likely than the chill and kind, hence MGTOW.)
/r/MGTOW13/06/19 02:38 PM
22

Exactly. It's like women want to trade sex for favors and resources... I don't blame them for that, it makes evolutionary sense. However, it does mean that a wise man cedes no power to a woman.
/r/MGTOW13/06/19 12:28 PM
2

Any man who lets his partner stay home and NOT work full time is a fucking moron in this day and age.
/r/MGTOW12/06/19 12:15 AM
1

Seriously there are countless examples of faithless women out there but OP picked this one? This has to be a fucking trollpost. Sorry if you want to argue about social ideas of male expendability, we can do that, but if you abandon a close companion (man, woman, dog) when shit hits the fan you're probably going to be regarded as a scumbag by at least some people. Especially the person you abandoned.
/r/MGTOW11/06/19 12:43 PM
0

Yeah seriously we can deconstruct the idea of male expendability and all that but this isn't normal relationship boredom. OP, this is a shitty example of potential female infidelity. Try harder OP.
/r/MGTOW11/06/19 12:40 PM
1

Eh, I think the issue is our legal framework. Women are undoubtedly attracted to status and wealth. Women also tend to be homemakers. Frequently this results in income disparity, and this results in the legal system exerting influence on men. Wife being unreasonable? You can leave her, if you are willing to sacrifice years or decades of wealth. If men could just walk away without financial consequence, women would be far meeker. Certainly the current financial penalties are too high to make anyt…
/r/MGTOW11/06/19 12:18 PM
2

Good explanation but more than that: the legal system thinks a woman is entitled to your money. She makes a living wage and custody is 50-50? You still gotta pay up since you make more. Want a less stressful job? Too bad, gotta keep making the same money or your ass is going to jail.
/r/MGTOW11/06/19 08:58 AM
47

Seriously. More time for working out, reading, playing games, seeing friends... More money for things you care about... if you can retire early that means even more time... Even good relationships take a lot of work. Throw in an almost 50-50 chance of being worked over by our legal system, and an X% chance of a bad (but enduring) relationship... No thanks.
/r/MGTOW10/06/19 09:19 AM
9

Well, I'd say from a biological perspective a dumb and easy woman is at least a low resource investment in terms of possible reproduction. In other words: you can say wham bham thank you ma'am. However now that the government makes any such interaction a possibly longterm taxation sentence, men have to be smarter than that.
/r/MGTOW10/06/19 12:47 AM
20

True but undermined by the fact that the legal system in many countries think a woman (sorry, "less wealthy partner") is entitled to a man's money. Women want to trade their affection for attention, favors, and resources. Unsurprisingly, when they become legally entitled to resources they are less affectionate.
/r/MGTOW09/06/19 08:14 AM
14

More than that: A woman can use the government to destroy you in multiple ways. Simps? White knights? Nothing compared to armed men taking your money or taking you to jail.
/r/MGTOW09/06/19 05:37 AM
16

Meh. I never experienced it... and why is cheating such a big deal? Because you're told to sacrifice again and again for your family, and like a good person you do. Sacrifice nothing for a woman. If she cheats on you, dump her and move on. She lost more than you did.
/r/MGTOW08/06/19 10:36 AM
3

I'm actually just surprised so many comments are saying she's the asshole. Good for Reddit.
/r/MGTOW08/06/19 03:33 AM
28

In general, exercise is a fantastic investment. (Unlike women.) You don't have to end up weak and bedridden at 70, 80, or even 90. It's not about bulk, it's about current and future quality of life.
/r/MGTOW05/06/19 08:55 AM
4

Meh, as the article states, this is likely due to women taking days off to care for kids and such. We'd need to control for mothers vs non-mothers. I'm all for bashing the double standards in society but let's stick to strong arguments (e.g. paternity fraud, male mortality etc.)
/r/MGTOW05/06/19 06:42 AM
1

Meh let's be real: percentages were probably always this high or higher. Both men and women have biological incentives to cheat. Unfortunately the law only really punishes men who cheat.
/r/MensRights02/06/19 02:32 PM
15

Seriously. One of my exes told me she'd start shit and she'd cry but she'd secretly feel good inside. They desperately crave attention.
/r/MGTOW31/05/19 10:02 PM
4

I agree. Absolutely. I am even OK with the fact that I have a shorter lifespan and am more likely to die. I'm not OK with the protected gender claiming to be a perpetual victim.
/r/MGTOW30/05/19 10:39 AM
0

Exactly. Point is to correctly analyze the underlying thought processes and behaviors. Not suggesting women are a good investment.
/r/MGTOW28/05/19 11:41 PM
4

I am sure that's true, but I assume that's including FOB Asians, rather than their offspring... Point being Asians with little resources possess the drive or education to propel their children into successful careers.
/r/MensRights28/05/19 09:32 AM
0

My argument wasn't an argument in favor of marrying.
/r/MGTOW28/05/19 07:42 AM
0

I meant that other men are attractive in some way. They have good looks/genes, humor, intelligence. The "nice guy" has nothing the woman wants except that he's a convenient source of attention and help.
/r/MGTOW27/05/19 06:09 PM
0

Exactly. Especially since legally our laws frequently enforce the idea that a woman is entitled to a man's money. A man shouldn't have to pay money to a woman if they each have 50-50 custody of a child for instance.
/r/MGTOW27/05/19 12:29 PM
-5

I think that's a bit of an overgeneralization... I think women do love, but in a culture that values emotion over reason that means a woman's love and loyalty is dependent on her emotional state at the time. Furthermore, women are raised to believe they are entitled to a man's service even though they can easily become naught but an aging nag. Ultimately, never invest anything in a relationship that you'll regret if the relationship ended tomorrow.
/r/MGTOW27/05/19 07:20 AM
8

Exactly. Even in high school I realized "nice guys" were just being subservient because they have nothing else to offer a woman.
/r/MGTOW27/05/19 07:16 AM
5

Especially since why are we wired to want pussy? To reproduce, primarily. Oh, you don't want to reproduce with that random woman? Well then...
/r/MGTOW26/05/19 06:21 AM
7

Excellent! May Bill 2270 pass the OK senate. From ThePatch.com: "Despite those concerns the bill advanced to the Senate with the unanimous support of the lower chamber, passing the House Judiciary Committee 16-0 and the full House 95-0. The Senate Judiciary Committee vote however split 9-3 along party lines, with Sens. Boren (D-16, Norman), Brooks (D-44, SW Oklahoma City) and Floyd (D-46, Oklahoma City Central) voting against."
/r/MensRights25/05/19 06:12 AM
3

Thanks. I always find articles like this interesting. Not to mention (obviously) apes do the same thing, as do penguins.
/r/MensRights24/05/19 11:19 AM
2

That's up to you. I suggest you'd find greater satisfaction pursuing a more noble path but YMMV. The many luxuries we enjoy today were built on the hardwork of our predecessors.
/r/MGTOW23/05/19 09:02 AM
3

Well it's not even needing the motivation... sometimes it's just a result of having so much free time (that was previously spent trying to appease a perpetually unsatisfied woman.)
/r/MGTOW23/05/19 08:50 AM
1

That shit enrages me. Oh, your ex-spouse makes a living wage? You decide to take a lower stress position that also provides a living wage? WRONG! Stay at that high stress job and earn as much as you can! Heaven forbid that a child should have to survive on two average/living wages!
/r/MensRights21/05/19 01:38 PM
37

I would contend things like alimony and child support of course incentivize the man to stay with his family... However, it allows the woman to be completely irrational and irresponsible. So these things simply encourage you not to get married or have children in the first place.
/r/MGTOW21/05/19 01:26 PM
4

Sure. I suppose I meant financially successful = has more earning power/money than the woman.
/r/MGTOW19/05/19 03:50 PM
44

Exactly. The fundamental conclusion is modern relationships are a terrible investment. It's not a question of "can I get an attractive woman?" It's a question of "why exert effort to get an attractive woman?" Older legal and social norms at least encouraged/enforced reliability. Marriage might suck but at least you hopefully had a trustworthy network of family. Now you don't even have that. Marriage is a terrible idea for any financially successful man.
/r/MGTOW19/05/19 02:11 PM
6

Let's be real, even if more women don't live at home the likely causes are: 1) They're living with a partner who subsidizes them partially or completely. 2) Their savings and wealth doesn't affect their prospects, so if they're never able to buy a house they don't care, their future beta bucks will provide it.
/r/MGTOW18/05/19 11:51 PM
2

Use a fucking child support calculator and see how much shit you're spewing. If you make more money and custody is 50-50, you're still paying child support.
/r/MGTOW17/05/19 01:37 PM
7

Exactly. You have a choice: 9 months pregnancy and childbirth or having about 25% of your takehome pay given to someone else for 18 years (possibly more!), what would you pick? I'd pick the former. I'm pro abortion. I'm also in favor of men having to sign a consent form to be considered for child support. If you don't have a man's consent, maybe you shouldn't bear his child. (Of course the government will never release a potential chokehold on men.)
/r/MensRights15/05/19 07:44 PM
3

Exactly. Also women trade sex for resources and don't always get pregnant from sex. So they fuck betas when they are less fertile for resources and alphas when they have a higher chance of pregnancy. Why do you think women have hormonal fluctuations in attraction?
/r/MGTOW13/05/19 11:59 PM
1

There's more to life than sex. As a MGTOW, I think this should be our refrain. Really, fuck this post. "LOLOL why am I going to work if I don't get sex?" Even if sex is the objective, generally if you're helping raise a daughter, presumably the mother is occasionally putting out.
/r/MGTOW13/05/19 11:55 PM
2

I feel like this is a troll question but... I think some (most?) women do feel love or affection. However, given that these are ultimately feelings (and our society is tending towards feels > reals these days), feelings are fleeting. I think someone else here said it best: Men recognize love is commitment. To women it's a feeling, and feelings are fleeting, or feelings fluctuate. (Oh, and if she happens to cheat on you and get impregnated by some apex male while her feelings fluctuate, evolution…
/r/MGTOW13/05/19 11:02 AM
4

I think this is the most accurate answer. Answers will vary. Ultimately, my overriding rationale is that any serious relationship offers nothing of value (or the risks don't outweigh the benefits.)
/r/MGTOW13/05/19 06:44 AM
3

I have no problem with that philosophy as long as the woman is solely responsible for her offspring. No welfare. No child support. Fuck who you please, just don't expect me to pay the bill.
/r/MGTOW09/05/19 12:22 PM
20

They may also be trolls trying to shut the sub down.
/r/MGTOW08/05/19 01:01 PM
3

I mean some of his property (worth about 10 million IIRC) is in Canada.
/r/MGTOW07/05/19 04:36 PM
14

I was actually prepared to be semi-understanding if the 25 million was a quarter of the wealth or something (since the article makes the man sound absolutely loaded.) However: "The doctor was granted C$21.4 million after the proceedings." Does that mean that the woman (who is called Ms throughout the article) got more than the man? And child support for a 17 year old kid? Marriage is a trap.
/r/MGTOW07/05/19 12:40 PM
1

Even in a good relationship, how much time are you going to spend in an attempt to make her happy? How many friendships will wither or be neglected? How many opportunities will you miss? Women are work, and a terrible investment of your time and money.
/r/MGTOW07/05/19 04:22 AM
7

He was charged with aggravated sexual assault, and a 3-year sentence. I agree that he deserves a harsher sentence, but he wasn't charged with rape because it didn't fit the Finnish legal definition of rape.
/r/MGTOW05/05/19 05:17 PM
1

Problem is Big Daddy Government enforces the traditional male aspects of a relationship (i.e. resource provision) while giving women a free pass.
/r/MGTOW05/05/19 01:00 AM
1

Hence I said "collectively decided."
/r/MGTOW05/05/19 12:53 AM
7

By that I mean that if men collectively decided to "revert our society to the stone age" then women would have essentially no recourse. (I am not suggesting we do this.) The military, gun owners, raw physical strength, is in men's favor.
/r/MGTOW04/05/19 06:37 PM
11

While absurd, the court did say 1.9m is an insane amount and there was this recent ruling: 'Wyatt will now have to return to the high court to pursue her claim. In a recent test case, the appeal court told the ex-wife of a millionaire horse surgeon to seek employment and warned that she had no right to expect “an income for life” at her former husband’s expense.'
/r/MGTOW04/05/19 03:18 PM
18

Fuck white knight assholes.
/r/MGTOW03/05/19 08:35 AM
9

Historically, men would provide for women and impregnate them. The women would spend at least some time incapacitated and tending to children. Children were good for your family or tribe. However, given today children are often undesirable, it makes far less sense to devote resources to a woman.
/r/MGTOW03/05/19 08:31 AM
8

I understand where you're coming from but note it does reinforce the image that we're bitter because "we're not getting laid." Sex is great but it's also overvalued. Simps are an example of that.
/r/MGTOW02/05/19 09:23 PM
7

I agree. This exemplifies the folly of having your life revolve around your partner. Life is more than that.
/r/MGTOW02/05/19 03:14 PM
83

She might be OK for longer than that if some poor sucker is stuck with her. Fuck our legal system man. Men aren't entitled to sex, women aren't entitled to money.
/r/MGTOW02/05/19 03:07 PM
4

Uh, even if you're in a relationship that shit ain't free. Unless you hook up with minimal time invested, you're paying in time and money.
/r/MGTOW02/05/19 11:58 AM
18

Society needs to incentivize pro-social behavior. The risk must be balanced by the reward.
/r/MGTOW02/05/19 11:49 AM
8

I don't think women are entirely negative... But even a good relationship is a lot of work. Probably a lot of money and missed opportunities too. Relationships are overvalued. Never sacrifice anything that you'd regret if the relationship ended tomorrow.
/r/MGTOW30/04/19 10:15 AM
5

Yeah I think a major problem is that we are raising people (especially women) to think that just following your emotions is something to be lauded rather than discouraged. Your emotions aren't irrelevant but they're not a guiding star, either.
/r/MGTOW30/04/19 10:09 AM
17

And what does a man get from sex these days? A 10 second orgasm? A feeling of superiority? Historically: sex meant the chance of having children and passing on your genes. Even if that doesn't matter to you, in ancient societies children increased your income rather than drained it. They provided security, financially and physically. There were evolutionary and economic reasons to procreate. So ask yourself: are you just following outdated programming?
/r/MGTOW30/04/19 08:54 AM
6

Ending a shitty relationship is far more difficult if you're cohabitating. Biggest advantage a man has is the ability to walk the fuck away.
/r/MGTOW30/04/19 07:18 AM
3

Right. The nihilism on this sub annoys me sometime.
/r/MGTOW29/04/19 07:22 AM
5

Dude some states and countries make you cover college. It's ridiculous.
/r/MGTOW29/04/19 07:14 AM
4

While a woman cheating on you is a big deal... the problem is she can cheat on you, make you raise another man's child (while pretending it's yours), and the government would still make you pay alimony and child support to her. You know what reduces the chances of a woman cheating? Knowing that if she gets caught she might be on her own for the rest of her post-wall life. Men and women both behave like beasts if you remove all constraints.
/r/MGTOW28/04/19 09:39 AM
3

Actually for me, I went MGTOW after realizing I must dump the much younger, incredibly beautiful girl I was dating. I realized she was too much work, and even if I decided I wanted to put in the work and have a family with her, that would put me in a financially precarious position with our legal system. So I said, "No thanks" and decided that I would only date under very specific circumstances. A lot of MGTOW have put up with women and realized they're not worth it. Companion? Find a man. Sex? …
/r/MGTOW28/04/19 08:47 AM
11

I'm not sure if that's true... I think women DO love. However, when that love fades it makes them question the relationship. I think men in LTR lose the "butterflies" early, or at least I do, so if a man sticks around, you can trust him. Women however, might throw away a multi-year commitment because of "the feels."
/r/MGTOW27/04/19 08:06 AM
9

I don't think most women are consciously plotting to take advantage of men. However, our economic, legal, and social policies are unfavorable to any successful man. Ultimately even if you find a "good woman" how much of your life is going to be spent doing inane bullshit and managing the relationship? Also, "the person you marry isn't the person you divorce." Relationships are overvalued.
/r/MGTOW22/04/19 02:03 AM
17

Except dude might still get fucked over by US immigration and marriage laws if she decides he isn't cutting it. If it was $120k and that meant no alimony, no child support, no split assets... OK maybe that's a reasonable deal (assuming the other party won't cut and run) but $120k is tip of the iceberg here.
/r/MGTOW20/04/19 02:39 PM
15

At least most posters seem to be in agreement. He doesn't think it's the right move. She thinks she's entitled to the fallback security of his trustfund. Of course his mother spilled the beans.
/r/MGTOW20/04/19 02:33 PM
1

I think both men and women are hypergamous by nature. Generally though it's harder for your average man to mess around with multiple partners. Now that Western society in some ways incentivizes the behavior (no slut shaming, easy anonymous sex, guaranteed income in the form of alimony, child support, and welfare), of course more women are going to act like pieces of shit. Ultimately even if she doesn't cheat on you or pose a financial liability to you, what does a relationship bring to the table…
/r/MGTOW20/04/19 07:11 AM
2

Exactly this. Both sexes are shitty. We have long recognized men can be shitty, but recently our society has put women on a pedestal, thinking that they do not have their own set of selfish and socially destructive behaviors. Our Western legal system holds men in check, but incentivizes poor behavior for women.
/r/MGTOW20/04/19 04:32 AM
1

Putting up with a woman's bullshit and all the associated financial liabilities? Nah, too much work for some sex and companionship.
/r/MGTOW19/04/19 01:09 PM
18

Increase accessibility to abortions. With birth control, plan B, abortions, adoption, no woman is forced to raise a baby she doesn't want. Men should have to sign consent to raise a baby with child support. No consent, consider one of the options above, lady. Of course, the State just wants to milk the money out of men.
/r/MGTOW19/04/19 01:07 PM
3

Meh, this subreddit is at least partially filled by men like myself have had all those things and decided it's not worth it.
/r/MGTOW17/04/19 03:31 AM
6

It varies from state to state. Child support calculations also differ. For instance, I think it's bullshit that in many states 50-50 custody would still have the higher earning spouse pay to the lower, even if the lower earning spouse had a reasonable salary.
/r/MGTOW17/04/19 02:09 AM
10

Seriously. $100 to make sure $100k+ and years of your life aren't a waste? Always do it and don't stick with a woman who would question it.
/r/MGTOW16/04/19 07:03 AM
10

That is the fear. What is possibly even worse is that a woman doesn't even have to PLAN to do this. She can honestly say for most of the relationship she loves you and just wants to take care of the kids... But if she changes her mind, the system has her back and you are screwed. Hence, fuck our current legal system. Fuck a legal system that can let a woman cheat on a man, have him raise another man's kid, and the government still thinks he should be stuck with the bill. Fuck that.
/r/MGTOW15/04/19 09:47 AM
18

Seriously. If I made my decisions based purely on feelings I'd have dumped every woman at the 6 month mark. Difference is once women get attached it takes their feelings longer to fade, making them think their feels is the entire basis of the relationship. (At least in this day and age.)
/r/MGTOW14/04/19 10:21 AM
1

Meh, I don't want MGTOW to be a "fuck society" subreddit (even though society can easily fuck men.) I think contributing to society is reasonable. Maybe you'll change your mind later on. shrug Until then GYOW.
/r/MGTOW14/04/19 07:15 AM
3

Or more simply put: Always assume a relationship will end.
/r/MGTOW14/04/19 07:08 AM
1

Absolutely. I do not agree with the nihilism that sometimes infests this subreddit. Ultimately, both men and women can be selfish creatures. The issue with current society is that women are increasingly rewarded for selfish and irresponsible behavior via our economic, legal, and social policies. Those policies won't change female nature, but the positive traits this sub praises in men are to some extent socially conditioned and enforced. Honestly, I don't need a woman to "love me" but I do need …
/r/MGTOW14/04/19 07:03 AM
3

Not when the government will do everything it can to ensure the more productive gender subsidizes the lesser.
/r/MGTOW12/04/19 09:03 PM
1

Sure. But at least theoretically the man can always walk away. Not today when the government feels it can shackle men with supporting parasitic women while the productive men derive no benefit.
/r/MGTOW12/04/19 04:20 AM
40

Or, on a more literal level: I'm going to talk about being a victim of a crime. I'm not going to talk about committing a crime. Your poster shit isn't deep.
/r/MGTOW10/04/19 06:46 PM
3

I cannot imagine how anyone would think "importing" such a massive liability is a good idea.
/r/MGTOW10/04/19 03:16 AM
9

Absolutely this. However, like many other posters here, we should not start coddling boys. We should STOP coddling women. Equality.
/r/MGTOW09/04/19 02:51 AM
21

Seriously. Call me a fucking simp if you want but I'm not inherently opposed to the idea of sacrificing some personal freedom for a relationship and/or society's good. I am vehemently opposed to giving a woman a thermonuclear warhead she can detonate whenever she wants if I don't tow what she defines as "the line." Both sexes are capable of being selfish and shitty. However, our laws (and underlying biological relationship dynamics) currently only prevent men from being useless sacks of shit.
/r/MGTOW08/04/19 01:22 PM
12

If the State didn't provide for women, then women (generationally, at least, if not immediately) would learn. As long as woman are legally entitled to a man's wealth (that they frequently had no part in earning), this behavior will continue.
/r/MGTOW03/04/19 09:15 AM
0

It depends on what time period you're looking at. Tribal societies absolutely have male warfare mortality above 10% but less so as you advance through history. A significant portion of males and females die before the age of 5, historically. Where are you getting the 60% from? But yes, even if correct, that's part of the male female risk reward dynamic. Females are nature's guaranteed bet, males are more likely to leave zero offspring or many. Ultimately I'm not saying men should die for women i…
/r/MGTOW01/04/19 11:39 AM
0

Meh, women died during child birth and historically had less privileges and were at least semi-dependent on a man. I think female death during childbirth was about 2% without medical advancements so if a woman has 5 kids that's hitting about a 10% risk of death which is significant. I'm going to side with men dying in warfare and manual labor is natural and functional. I don't actually have a huge problem with that. I have an issue with spending my life being subservient to the state and worthle…
/r/MGTOW01/04/19 09:14 AM
12

It's not gynocentric. Historically, a man could walk away if he wanted, and find "new pastures" if he pleased. Maybe there would be local social pressure but that social pressure would be most strongly enforced by men who are at least a little sympathetic. These days, the local monopoly on force is utterly unsympathetic, and will track you down as best it can.
/r/MGTOW01/04/19 03:46 AM
27

It's crazy, but like anything other sunk cost fallacy, this man has poured so much of his life into this relationship. To find out it's a hollow lie. Now, a woman might sacrifice a lot for an unfaithful man. That's bad. However, it will never be as bad as realizing that the children you raised and loved were never yours to begin with. More than a terrible moral betrayal, it's also a biological betrayal.
/r/MGTOW31/03/19 11:08 AM
1

Honestly, maybe I'm the wrong person to discuss this with. I don't highly subscribe to the women = hypergamous theory. I think both sexes have biological incentives to cheat, with our current economic, legal, and social policies encouraging female infidelity and relationship hopping more than with males. I don't think women are destined to cheat. I just question whether investing time and money into a relationship with a woman is worth it. The downsides seem to outweigh the upsides, especially i…
/r/MGTOW31/03/19 07:40 AM
2

Better than the woman who gets knocked up by a loser then expects the government (and thus us) to pay for it.
/r/MGTOW31/03/19 07:36 AM
3

I'd have less of an issue with frivolous women leading a frivolous lifestyle if they support themselves. What I have an issue is that the government will tax men (or pass more stringent cohabitation laws) in order subsidize such women. Welfare, alimony, child support, all ways men pay to take care of ridiculous women.
/r/MGTOW31/03/19 07:34 AM
1

Statistics are within a few percentage points for male and female infidelity.
/r/MGTOW31/03/19 03:51 AM
4

Women would be far more loyal if they were not financially incentivized to cheat and divorce. Men are taught in Western society to be responsible. Women are taught to follow their emotions.
/r/MGTOW30/03/19 01:51 PM
1

I think men can potentially develop friendships with unattractive women if it's a forced social development (school, work, etc.)
/r/MGTOW30/03/19 06:35 AM
3

I only skimmed your response but I think the key issue in modern society is that men are willing to marry understanding it's for social stability and "to be responsible" rather than individual happiness. Women marry thinking it will solve their problems and are outraged (at the man) when it doesn't. It's the way women are being conditioned these days that are the issue. Also that our economic, legal, and social institutions no longer support marriage.
/r/MGTOW29/03/19 07:45 AM
3

Marriage gives the "weak" a chance (and incentive) to contribute to society. Its benefit is stability. Knew this even before I was married.
/r/MGTOW29/03/19 07:41 AM
4

Women are only less invested because the government will forcefully redistribute wealth from men to women. It's fine to be a single woman when the government will provide for you with welfare, child support, and/or alimony. Never give up financial control. Finance dictates current and future relationship success.
/r/MGTOW28/03/19 10:37 AM
32

Same. After you've had sex with beautiful women, you realize that if it's not worth putting up with their shit now, it's certainly not going to get any better down the line. Like the old saw says, "For every 10 you see is a man tired of screwing her."
/r/MGTOW28/03/19 08:12 AM
3

Difference is a woman can cheat on you and take a sizable chunk of your life's work. Rarely can a man do the same. (If you want to count "maintaining a relationship" as work, that goes both ways.) Upvoted you as a courtesy.
/r/MGTOW18/03/19 07:42 AM
5

Let's not forget the inherent benefits of exercise.
/r/MGTOW18/03/19 06:07 AM
3

Traveling in Africa.
/r/MGTOW16/03/19 04:11 AM
6

That's great but: A) you're only reliable while you have feelings for him. Men are at least taught to remain reliable even after their partner has long stopped eliciting any emotional response from them. B) the male female dynamic largely demands men provide resources and the current legal system still adheres to the outdated notion that one must pay their partner, even if they can support themselves. Thus, men lose.
/r/MGTOW07/03/19 04:55 PM
5

Well for a long time men KNEW marriage sucks but we did it anyways out of a sense of duty. I think a lot of women have absolutely ridiculous expectations for relationships and that is part of the problem.
/r/MGTOW04/03/19 06:56 PM
11

My philosophy. I think saying all women are cheaters is an oversimplification. I could take a leap of faith, but the legal system can easily make this a disastrous decision. It's one thing to be broken up with or cheated on, it's something else entirely to spend the rest of your life working off that mistake.
/r/MGTOW04/03/19 06:53 PM
1

Physical fitness is objectively healthier for you, as long as you're not going to extremes. I'd prefer not to see this sub defending poor fitness, just as I would have contempt for feminists defending landwhales.
/r/MGTOW02/03/19 09:38 AM
6

In a lot of states you generally won't be held liable for college tuition, but some you will. Always pays to be informed in the ways the State will try to empty your pockets!
/r/MGTOW27/02/19 09:55 AM
1

Right. If you make more than her or let her stay home to take care of the kids you are giving up any financial leverage you had. Your only advantage is the fact women age poorly but there are plenty of desperate simps out there.
/r/MGTOW27/02/19 07:39 AM
9

They could literally be dead and some men would still screw them.
/r/MGTOW26/02/19 02:18 AM
6

If the legal system didn't explicity absolve them of financial responsibility then you'd see a lot less divorce initiated by women. However given that the legal system essentially forces men to subsidize women they've married (even if she makes a reasonable wage), then women will behave irresponsibly.
/r/MGTOW26/02/19 02:16 AM
24

Dude, I'm not attracted to men but I seriously sometimes wonder if it'd be better than putting up with a woman's bullshit. If dates consist of playing video games and chilling out I'm down.
/r/MGTOW25/02/19 09:42 AM
2

Exactly. It's one thing to make small sacrifices for a woman... But when cultures propagate the idea it's OK for a man to sign away half of his life's work for some pussy... we need to point out that's some heinous bullshit.
/r/MGTOW23/02/19 01:05 AM
20

... your username is babyangel69... Need more attention, darling?
/r/MGTOW22/02/19 08:16 PM
1

Hah! Sorry! You're right. That stuff bugs me in other people's posts.
/r/MGTOW22/02/19 11:18 AM
8

I think women FEEL more intensely. I don't think women are (necessarily) lying about feeling love. Sometimes they do and they do it intensely. The difference is a man in any relationship longer than a few months just doesn't FEEL to the same degree. So I am kind of agreeing with you. To love, they must FEEL, and that makes them unreliable.
/r/MGTOW22/02/19 03:38 AM
11

And a woman's fading youth and beauty is compensated by the fact that, if a woman wasn't a moron, she probably has a large degree of financial leverage over some man who naively followed the path society has prescribed him. As ever, there is no one size fits all story for an entire society. The greatest thing about MGTOW is propagating the notion that women are overvalued and to sacrifice only the most trifling things on their account.
/r/MGTOW21/02/19 10:21 PM
4

That is criminal. Stay strong.
/r/MGTOW21/02/19 02:43 PM
1

Be aware of what about prenups will actually hold up in court. My best advice was if you decide to go down that rabbit hole: make sure she makes about as much as you do, and she is almost always gainfully employed. Then never make a sacrifice you will regret if you two separate. At least given the above A) she hasn't taken your money and B) your sacrifices are what you deemed "acceptable." If you're successful, consider living in a state with no cohabitation laws and just never get married.
/r/MGTOW20/02/19 05:14 AM
1

Completely unrelated but bad ass username man.
/r/MGTOW19/02/19 09:00 AM
2

I was addressing respect, not necessarily empowerment, though you may define them as the same thing. Also, the difficulties you describe are internal mental processes rather than the act of achieving something. You also presume detaching feelings from sex is a good thing, which I think most would disagree with. Your logical gymnastics are both worthless and pointless. Sex is entirely natural. So is rape, murder, infidelity, and any number of terrible things. Women can have as much sex as they wa…
/r/MGTOW18/02/19 06:54 AM
3

Absolutely. On the one hand, I'm willing to entertain the idea that paying welfare to single mothers may be the most cost effective solution. On the other hand, there's no reason for me to be paying money to support an ill-conceived child. Someone's obviously bad life choices are not my responsibility.
/r/MGTOW18/02/19 04:28 AM
2

Eh, I think men aren't shamed more than women in this regard. What I object to is the inherent assumption that men should be OK with a woman settling for a man once she's about to hit the wall at which point she will spend the rest of her life as a depreciating asset. Sorry, if you were an undisciplined slut as a youth, you're just an old undisciplined slut now.
/r/MGTOW18/02/19 04:26 AM
3

The reason men derive respect from having sex is because it requires the man to be doing SOMETHING right. A woman can have sex with ease as long as she has a pulse... and for some guys, not even that would be a requirement. Why is it so difficult for women to understand this?
/r/MGTOW18/02/19 04:19 AM
3

Regardless of divorce, neglecting friendships during a relationship is a very real problem.
/r/MGTOW17/02/19 06:32 PM
6

I mean, from a biological perspective they do. However, that also means that we have no obligation to provide for a woman or her children. Ever. If men were exempted from alimoney and child support, a good many problems would be fixed with current male-female dynamics.
/r/MGTOW16/02/19 05:41 PM
2

I agree that this all comes down to government, since the government is acting as provider and forcing all men to participate whether they want to or not. Regardless of whether you vote, (I'm not going to say you should vote), you're going to be governed regardless of your participation so I think that's a moot point. People can be convinced to vote "against their interests" and so given our current environment, I'd suggest we agitate for legislative change (for instance, as women increasingly p…
/r/MGTOW16/02/19 10:56 AM
12

Sure. Absolutely. Ultimately, someone has to provide resources for offspring. If someone doesn't, you have created a society that is literally incapable or unwilling to sustain itself. Personally, I am willing to work to a reasonable degree to literally sustain our civilization. I do think men have some limited responsibility to children they produce. Of course, I'd also support an option to opt out of child support. Women have multiple contraceptive options, including abortion, so pregnancy ent…
/r/MGTOW16/02/19 09:33 AM
15

I have no problem with being a provider under the right circumstances. But being FORCED to provide at gun point? I have no children but it really shows you how fucked up things are when the State is able to say "your kid is fed and clothed, BUT YOU COULD BE MAKING MORE MONEY! Therefore, you MUST make as much money as possible to give it to someone else." You want a lower paying, less stressful job that still provides for your kid? TOUGH SHIT. Real proof we're just walking ATMs. I have no desire …
/r/MGTOW16/02/19 08:30 AM
4

Also the problem is we have a legal system that will literally take money from (mostly) men and give it to (mostly) women if a man is stupid enough to engage in traditional behavior like marriage. You want to be locked into a life of servitude for... THAT? Hell no.
/r/MGTOW13/02/19 01:50 AM
14

Or bang someone who's essentially better than them in all categories then wonder why none of the guys they're banging stick around for more than a few months or they're relegated to fall back FWB status.
/r/MGTOW12/02/19 03:00 PM
4

Enslaved by a man? You mean a man being legally enslaved to a woman. A woman who doesn't work is a far greater financial liability under our current legal system.
/r/MGTOW10/02/19 05:52 PM
2

An exchange between two characters in Battlefield: Bad Company... they also love Predator: (the Youtube clip does it better, of course) Haggard: Here's one, favorite scene in... Predator! Go! Sweetwater: Oh, oh, oh, good one! Well, okay, I'm gonna have to go with, uh, Billy standing on the bridge with that big ass knife... Haggard: What? The knife showdown? Sweetwater: Yeah, the knife showdown. Haggard: Billy's a bitch. That's totally retarded. Sweetwater: He is not a bi... It is not retarded! H…
/r/MGTOW10/02/19 12:11 PM
4

You'll see the fundamental hypocrisy of women in several ways, let's taking make-up and dressing up: A) women will simultaneously claim IT'S NOT FOR MEN. Women dress up to feel pretty, impress other women, etc. B) if you complain about a woman taking so long to get ready they will state THEY ARE GETTING PRETTY FOR YOU despite A.
/r/MGTOW09/02/19 07:10 PM
3

We don't care about child rearing as much since a man never actually knows (barring absolute secluded isolation) whether a child is his. Women ALWAYS know investing in their offspring is the right (evolutionary) play.
/r/MGTOW09/02/19 07:08 PM
2

Seriously, don't sacrifice shit for a woman. Not worth it. I'm lucky that my marriage cost me only time (but it cost her more dearly on that account.)
/r/MGTOW07/02/19 04:19 PM
3

I think it's multi-factorial but let's be real: High quality porn and video games = definitely cheaper and probably more entertaining than a date. Could Tinder etc. be a factor? Absolutely! But there's a lot of things in play, from female (relative) financial independence to an abundance of recreational options.
/r/MGTOW06/02/19 07:23 PM
9

Except lifespans generally weren't THAT much shorter if you survived childhood. Part of the problem is that marriage is seen as a choice rather than a commitment. Studies have generally shown more choice = more discontent since you are less confident you're making the right choice. Throw in the fact that the legal and social systems we have don't really "enforce" togetherness like they used to and you have increased divorce rates and thus no incentive to actually invest in a marriage. Women are …
/r/MGTOW06/02/19 10:22 AM
24

Honestly, it's not that notions of love and marriage are bad... it's that we've idealized them to the point of perversion. It's been clear to me, even before I was married, that marriage is a social construct that exists for social stability. It's a compromise between competing genders with different goals. That's fine IF everyone is operating by the same rules and the system supports that underlying assumption. That is not what we currently have. Fools constantly seek elusive and temporary chem…
/r/MGTOW06/02/19 09:42 AM
16

Yes, a few years back I read about how politicians wouldn't touch issues like alimony because it was essentially a gendered issue... But now you have (second) wives married to men paying alimony to the first ex-wife and the second wives are pissed their income is (either directly or indirectly) subsidizing another woman! We need shit like this. Women are not entitled to our labor, just like a man isn't entitled to sex.
/r/MGTOW03/02/19 08:48 AM
5

Only modern governments enslave us.
/r/MGTOW29/01/19 07:34 PM
1

Work makes you live longer too. Women = work.
/r/MGTOW29/01/19 07:33 PM
25

I think your last sentence is a bit extreme but NOBODY wants a difficult partner. "Speaking their mind" is code for "constantly complains" and nobody wants that shit.
/r/MGTOW29/01/19 05:20 PM
3

Seriously, the fact that women think they can just OPT OUT of rationality is absurd.
/r/MGTOW28/01/19 03:03 AM
53

I'm sympathetic to that: if you're in your teens, maybe even to your late twenties, I understand. However, not to sound like an over-enthusiastic teacher or guidance counsellor: you should at least try to find something you care about. It took me until my late twenties to finally become stable enough (in terms of life situation) to finally come up with my dreams / ambitions, so it might take you a while too. Shape the world according to your will. Or at least try to. The greatest benefit of long…
/r/MGTOW27/01/19 10:05 AM
11

Right. Men are willing to compromise their happiness to try to make women happy: let them be homemakers etc... The State has forced us to say, "Fuck your happiness." It's the only sane choice.
/r/MGTOW17/01/19 01:47 AM
15

Exactly. It takes putting up with a woman's constant bullshit to understand how annoying they can be. It's easy to idolize a cutie you have limited contact with, just like studies have shown the less you interact with a crush the more positively you view them.
/r/MGTOW12/01/19 03:21 PM
3

Right, there are far fewer biological, economic, legal, and social consequences than ever before. Remove most constraints and obviously you will have poor behavior.
/r/MGTOW12/01/19 02:12 PM
3

Love this response. There's a huge difference between liking someone as say, a coworker, versus possibly entering into a legal arrangement which may guarantee you spend the rest of your life on the plantation.
/r/MGTOW12/01/19 02:07 PM
5

Plenty of non-Roman barbarians integrated fine. They were disarmed, separated, and "processed" in an orderly fashion with their chiefs surrendering power. Of course, one time they were allowed to remain an armed mob with chiefs and they were a roving problematic army in Roman territory for years. Diversity is fine but the goal should be a melting pot, not a "salad."
/r/MGTOW11/01/19 11:30 PM
7

Ex straight up told me she'd start fights and cry but she did it for the attention/drama. Women love ANY sort of attention, as long as it's from the right guy.
/r/MGTOW11/01/19 11:24 PM
5

Don't forget her youth and vagina.
/r/MGTOW08/01/19 07:06 PM
4

Problem is most men never have an abundance of pussy, so the economic scarcity drives the perceived demand. After you've screwed enough hot women (or have regular access to one), you question the utility.
/r/MGTOW08/01/19 09:25 AM
9

Seriously. The essential truth is most women aren't worth the time. Jack off, save the time and money, and put it to better use.
/r/MGTOW07/01/19 09:11 AM
7

Fuck the idea that women, children, or society are entitled to a man's labor.
/r/MGTOW07/01/19 09:07 AM
1

Think the cap is 3 years there. Lowest divorce state. It is a communal property state though.
/r/MGTOW03/01/19 11:29 AM
36

Women are perpetual victims.
/r/MGTOW02/01/19 02:46 PM
15

Dude, during mine I realized this was good for me, she's 10 years older, I'm more successful, I'm coming out ahead. Shit's still painful though.
/r/MGTOW02/01/19 02:45 PM
2

Eh, let them document that shit online. I'd rather a girl be upfront with how she can be bought or how slutty she is, that way an intelligent man knows to avoid her.
/r/MGTOW02/01/19 01:17 PM
10

Yup, where's that study that show single men have more friendships? Sacrificing friendships for what is likely to be a temporary relationship is absolutely a danger of relationships whether you believe in MGTOW or not.
/r/MGTOW30/12/18 10:02 PM
8

Uh, and it's your job to shut them down. Women don't know what they want. Hell either way you should shut them down or your life will become a string of endless efforts to make them happy.
/r/MGTOW30/12/18 09:58 PM
9

Honestly we're conditioned to think that "that's how it is" and that's it. When I said to a friend my GF at the time was a bitch, he replied, "All women are bitchy." Or a married co-worker recently said, "Man, all women are crazy." I know you're young, but as someone who recently dumped a 9/10 girl a decade younger than myself because her tantrums and other bullshit was too annoying: a woman with a shitty attitude isn't worth it. Stay strong, don't put up with bullshit for some pussy.
/r/MGTOW28/12/18 11:56 PM
-1

Excellent point. Also I think it behooves us to criticize the underlying social order: in absent of social and legal constraints, men would kill and rape people to a greater degree than currently occurs. Men have negative tendencies too. Similarly, without appropriate social, legal, and economic constraints, women will lie (false rape allegations, of course you're the daddy etc.), cheat, remain permanently unemployed to be supported by the state or their ex, and use whatever else to their advant…
/r/MGTOW28/12/18 07:15 PM
15

Also it depends on location. Hot guy in NYC could kill it. Population density + gender imbalance.
/r/MGTOW27/12/18 06:08 PM
1

Ultimately the key issue is whether significant amounts of money have already been committed to the wedding. 6 months with no prior arrangements would hopefully be fine.
/r/MGTOW26/12/18 04:29 PM
8

Seriously. I understand throwing out prenups signed within say 6 months of a marriage or signed after wedding planning: if you have already sunk 20k on wedding prep (you shouldn't have but people are idiots) there's a certain financial pressure. However if that shit was signed well in advance, then that prenup should be mostly untouchable. Fuck our current legal system with regards to relationships. If you remove all social, legal, economic, and biological constraints on women, of course they're…
/r/MGTOW26/12/18 07:38 AM
23

Exactly this. We have to realize that most men are operating on outdated principles: Should you spend 5 hours and $50 to bang some woman? 100+ years ago? Maybe. Today? No, you should probably just fap and do something better.
/r/MGTOW24/12/18 02:04 PM
19

I agree with this: it's easy to criticize young men because they're still developing and don't realize their worth. Some of them have probably never been in relationships, don't realize that some girls think they're attractive, and I am honestly sympathetic because in some cases they are competing against older, more successful men. If I'm banging a girl a decade younger than myself, a guy her age probably isn't. Ultimately, women are absolutely more anxious and have more self esteem issues, and…
/r/MGTOW24/12/18 08:17 AM
1

Right or the same reason you might discourage a male from fucking anything in sight: If you're looking for a lifelong partner to raise a family with, you want someone who's responsible and has standards. Someone who CAN but won't. A woman (or man) willing to fuck whenever they feel like it is a liability in a relationship.
/r/MGTOW24/12/18 08:11 AM
1

I was not advocating for staunch libertarianism. Certainly I disagree with the notion that "the best needs of the child" surmount all considerations, though. The child's needs should be met, but I shouldn't have to maximize my salary for instance if the needs can be met without me doing so.
/r/MGTOW23/12/18 11:52 AM
11

That's all true. What's worse is that if you make a misstep like naively marrying some thot or accidentally knocking up a girl, big daddy government will come and take your hard work away when the woman didn't do shit. Government is the real problem, they're the men with guns taking our wealth and giving it to women.
/r/MGTOW23/12/18 08:17 AM
3

See, the difference is: if laws change regarding say alimony and child support, whether she stays loyal or not matters way less. Maybe she cheats on you. Well guess what? You may have wasted some time on her, but you still have your money and you can probably find someone younger and hotter if you want. Or maybe you don't, whatever. Either way you are not punished by a woman's infidelity, or at least your punishment is vastly reduced. I salute those of you who are in monk mode or who won't have …
/r/MGTOW22/12/18 12:52 PM
8

The problem with that logic is that if you were naive enough to get married or have kids, there's a chance government goons are going to force you to give her money. Government policy needs to stop being so "sexist" - women can take care of themselves, they don't need my dime or tax dollars to do it.
/r/MGTOW21/12/18 03:48 AM
15

Not to mention an older man generally has more resources/contacts etc. so it may be beneficial for the woman as well.
/r/MGTOW20/12/18 11:58 AM
40

Seriously, what a crock of shit. I understand if a man is able to work and failing to provide a basic level of subsistence for his kids. That's obviously reprehensible. But being mandated by the state to make as much as you possibly can? Especially when that amount is above the median? That is horse shit.
/r/MGTOW20/12/18 04:39 AM
4

Right, even if you "win" a few years down the line you might find yourself a slave to the state and a whining parasite. Revamp child support, alimony, and divorce and you curb some of women's degenerate tendencies (just like society has laws to curb male negative tendencies.)
/r/MGTOW19/12/18 03:54 AM
5

Seriously. Broke up with a very attractive girl, and what sealed the deal (should've done it regardless) was the utter financial liability she would be. She wasn't even lazy or in debt, but with the alimony and child support systems designed the way they are, I was risking the plantation if I walked away from one of her tantrums and she decided that wasn't OK. Not worth it.
/r/MGTOW12/12/18 02:40 PM
21

No need to be so extreme. Just drastically reduce the severity of things like alimony, child support, and no fault divorce. Oh, you cheated? Well have fun taking care of yourself! Watch out for the wall!
/r/MGTOW12/12/18 02:31 PM
6

It's our version of: "Honey, I know he's hot, but he's a bad idea." (He won't marry you.) For us it's: "Dude, I know she's hot, but she's a bad idea." (Marriage is a trash deal.) Everyone knows the former, not so much the latter.
/r/MGTOW12/12/18 11:11 AM
3

IMO, don't call them a different species (if you were intending that), while this is a subject that pisses me off, we should try to be as rational and reasonable as possible. Putting on my "fair and rational" hat, I will say that both men and women can engage in predatory and socially destructive behaviors. The problem is that men's negative behaviors are a well known problem and there are legal steps in place to curb them. The problem is that the hypergamy of women (normally controlled by threa…
/r/MGTOW12/12/18 10:57 AM
1

Really, an obvious point, and while I was aware birds tended to pair bond more seriously than some other species (with males contributing to nest building), I tend to think of the obvious examples of primates trading resources directly for sex. So remember my fellow men, sex for resources has been going on for millions of years. Even if it's not a conscious plan, it's still there in the subconscious. While I'm not a fan of io9 or Gizmodo, here's another site: https://www.google.com/amp/s/io9.giz…
/r/MGTOW12/12/18 10:34 AM
2

Seriously, what horse shit is that? Oh, you COULD be making more, so fuck you! Don't get me wrong, if the kids were starving or something AND the woman was taking care of them most of the time, you should support them if able... but just "you COULD be making more!" Fuuuuuck that. That's where you see the government wanting you on the plantation.
/r/MGTOW12/12/18 10:26 AM
1

I agree with that: it's a socially enforced compromise of our natural strategies. Maybe you could say it arose organically or naturally, but it's not our natural tendency without the attendant social structures.
/r/MGTOW11/12/18 07:06 AM
1

I agree, marriage is unnatural. I also understand the desire to avoid being a slave to the government or a woman. However, not all work is bad. It can be, of course. Ultimately I am willing to work (to a 'reasonable' degree) for the betterment of civilization. I am not, however, willing to work to pay some hole I fucked a couple years ago.
/r/MGTOW10/12/18 11:20 AM
7

This is what MGTOW is really about. Frankly, it's a lesson all of society needs. I've no patience for people who think happiness must be found in other people. If you adhere to this latter philosophy, you will be disappointed eventually.
/r/MGTOW10/12/18 09:42 AM
26

The real problem is that the government redistributes men's wealth to women. Even primates trade sex for resources. Shit's hardwired in us. Now, I'm not necessarily against social assistance, but an easy example is 50/50 custody and child support. Unless the woman (err, less wealthy partner...) is in absolute poverty, there should be NO redistribution of wealth. You both are taking care of the children, as long as basic needs are being met then you don't owe the other party shit. Ultimately wome…
/r/MGTOW09/12/18 01:33 PM
5

Right, the VALUE isn't there. It's not that we can't, it's just a bad deal. We'd like that to change (but it probably won't.)
/r/MGTOW08/12/18 08:21 AM
37

There's a group I'm in for a mutual hobby... they lean a bit more SJW than I'd like so I mostly ignore that shit since we've been doing it for years now. Hearing the women in the group complain about having to be emotionally supportive of their husbands was the most ridiculous thing I'd ever heard. I know in my past relationships, I provided exponentially more "emotional support" to my exes. I suspect it's the same with them, women are just conditioned to be perpetual victims.
/r/MGTOW02/12/18 01:54 AM
1

CA is a state without common law marriage or "palimoney" I believe.
/r/MGTOW30/11/18 02:52 PM
25

See... I'm fine with the idea of a woman deciding to move on if she's unhappy. I'm NOT fine with the government, for instance, dictating that I pay money to my (hypothetical) ex for child support even if custody is 50/50. Never waste time and money on a woman that you will regret if it all goes south.
/r/MGTOW29/11/18 11:25 AM
5

Seriously. So much this. I understand that people make bad decisions. But we moved away from work to make my mom happy. So far away it didn't make sense for her to work. Ultimately, my father made sacrifices for her. Did she make some sacrifices for him? No doubt but he paid a larger price and he still has to deal with her nagging and unhappiness. It's definitely one sided.
/r/MGTOW25/11/18 05:05 PM
2

You're correct but honestly a stay at home partner, or one that makes much less than you, is a huge financial liability in the current environment.
/r/MGTOW17/11/18 12:13 AM
3

Seriously. I can't wait to see additional data on divorce and domestic abuse between gays and lesbians as the years pass.
/r/MGTOW14/11/18 01:26 PM
3

Furthermore, it seems he still paid for several years. She also got a nice divorce pay out. Don't get me wrong, it's a good ruling, but it's hardly a ringing endorsement of marriage.
/r/MGTOW13/11/18 11:51 AM
8

Can't or won't? I recently dumped a very physically attractive girl because putting up with her shit: Was. Not. Worth. It. Add the potential complications of marriage/divorce/kids? LOL no thanks.
/r/MGTOW12/11/18 12:00 PM
12

I love when SJW women complain about having to provide emotional support to their male partners. It's like bitch, I'm sure he's provided you infinitely more support for your whining than you ever have for him.
/r/MGTOW11/11/18 09:27 AM
2

No, it's far more likely a single man is siring kids with multiple women. Then Big Daddy Government and or betas pick up the slack.
/r/MGTOW10/11/18 11:56 AM
3

If you are in a relationship and you (supposedly) have a kid, you should genetically test your "kid" 100% of the time. Trust but verify. Cost of a kit is negligible.
/r/MGTOW10/11/18 11:53 AM
5

But they spent time and money to get those degrees so they didn't even come out ahead. Great! (I resemble this remark - good paying job, too much fucking education and loans to get it.)
/r/MGTOW22/10/18 05:30 PM
1

Fucking this. ​ Recently broke up with a very attractive young woman... we were very different people, but maybe it could have worked. ​ It's not gonna work if you're gonna have three hour long arguments with me. No. Not how I want to live my life. Learn to shut the fuck up.
/r/MGTOW21/10/18 12:53 PM
2

Be happy it was so easy. I can tolerate a failed relationship. Paying an ex alimony or child support? That'd piss me off something fierce.
/r/MGTOW20/10/18 10:23 PM
38

Seriously, what do you expect? Never put yourself in a position to be financially fucked over by anyone. In this case, that means divorce rape.
/r/MGTOW20/10/18 07:36 PM
7

Seriously there was some article about Elon Musk's first wife being unhappy with their marriage. It's like, jesus lady, maybe Musk has more important things to be doing than spending time with you. You fucking knew this when you got married.
/r/MGTOW20/10/18 03:14 PM
7

Exactly this. As I get older I appreciate the value and nobility of work, of building. There's no nobility in being a slave to a nagging wife, ex or otherwise.
/r/MGTOW18/10/18 08:23 PM
12

Seriously, I don't care who you are but if you spent a lot of time or money to have sex you lost.
/r/MGTOW17/10/18 08:33 PM
26

If married folk tell you marriage is great remember the sunk cost fallacy: they have invested so much it's hard to tell themselves it sucks.
/r/MGTOW17/10/18 08:31 PM
1

Seriously. Don't be someone who's bedridden when they're 60 when you can be walking miles when you're 90.
/r/MGTOW17/10/18 11:54 AM
4

Sorry for not using your poll but for me it's primarily the first three. Pain I can handle, but if the pleasure isn't worth the pain... then why do it? Women are difficult: society places their happiness above the man's, they seem to become unhappy easier, and they think the man's job is to make them happy. The juice isn't worth the squeeze because sex and companionship aren't worth the costs in time and money. Finally, the financial liability that may be incurred is huge. Obviously these factor…
/r/MGTOW16/10/18 11:24 AM
3

Yes there's a lot of evidence that working lengthens your life. That's my retort when people say married men live longer... because marriage is work! People should definitely work at least part time. Keeps things in perspective and gives them purpose.
/r/MGTOW16/10/18 09:57 AM
16

Dude it's not even a question of being hurt. In some cases (almost all if kids are involved) you're literally going to be asked to slave away the rest of your life for someone else's benefit. I could maybe put up with all the bullshit if I knew it meant I'd have a partner and family I can trust... but if you can't even give me a good chance of that... then fuck no, I'm not gambling my happiness and financial future on someone else's feelings. Ending relationships is hard enough without being ens…
/r/MGTOW16/10/18 09:43 AM
6

Definitely be aware of cohabitation laws in your state/country.
/r/MGTOW16/10/18 09:37 AM
2

Even more than that, prostitution (in terms of trading food for sex) likely predates mankind.
/r/MGTOW15/10/18 08:54 AM
2

Women by definition are risk adverse. Women have a much larger chance of successful reproduction so long as they care for any children they produce. Men take risks because truly exceptional or lucky men can father ridiculous amounts of children.
/r/MGTOW15/10/18 08:53 AM
1

Probably because there's the inherent assumption that PCs are exceptional members of their species/race. 50/50 male and female guards is irksome. A lone heroic female knight is ok.
/r/MGTOW15/10/18 08:50 AM
13

Seriously. My mother was a good mother... she worked and contributed and cared for us. Then they moved far from the city to make her happy and she essentially retired since her prior work was so far away. Don't want to end like him, driving a terrible commute and working hard on weekdays and doing a lot of yardwork on the weekend for a woman who still gives him shit. He even cooks dinner some nights... which is bullshit when the other partner is staying at home. Sure there are shitty men out the…
/r/MGTOW15/10/18 08:22 AM
2

Eh, men would still want sex if nothing else. Women would simply have to select men more wisely. It'd simply be informal. There could also be a reasonable child support system in place (i.e. not this bullshit where 50/50 custody results in the higher earning spouse paying to the lesser earning even if the latter makes enough to care for themself and the kids.)
/r/MGTOW13/10/18 11:53 AM
2

Always assume a relationship will end. Never sacrifice more than you are willing to lose. Don't give a woman power over you.
/r/MGTOW13/10/18 06:32 AM
3

Is like taking out a loan and then dropping out of school.
/r/MGTOW13/10/18 06:27 AM
3

I hate the State because I can tolerate my ex-partner being a shitty person in any number of ways. I can't tolerate the State using its monopoly on force to compel people (mostly men) to pay their former partners who don't need the money.
/r/MGTOW13/10/18 06:16 AM
4

I'm white and obviously it'd be problematic but let's not make this into that kind of sub, ok?
/r/MGTOW12/10/18 11:22 AM
15

Also being in high school allows you a large degree of leeway. Most of us have fucked up in one way or another.
/r/MGTOW12/10/18 09:30 AM
3

Well, it's true, men ain't shit when laws mandate that male productivity is given to women regardless of the man's desire.
/r/MGTOW12/10/18 09:19 AM
1

I appreciate your post. Honestly I've been looking at MGTOW recently because I broke up with my an ex and at least some of that rationale was that the risk of marriage (and the possible financial consequences) was too high. I'm not angry about it, but I am angry that laws like child support exist even when parents would share 50/50 custody and both parents can take care of their kids on their salaries. Ultimately one great thing about MGTOW is that it encourages men to know their worth and rejec…
/r/MGTOW08/10/18 07:34 PM
37

The social, legal, and economic pressures that used to preserve marriage are no longer there. Men have always been taught marriage sucks, but it's the responsible thing to do. Even if an individual man does not believe this, it's obviously a recurring societal message. Women (especially so in Western society, but our media has spread to other countries) are taught their entire life that marriage is the goal and that love is the reason. Ultimately all you have to do is look at the divorce statist…
/r/MGTOW03/10/18 11:25 AM
3

Well, let's be real, if men had more leverage (either financial or just leveraging the reduced sexual advantage aging women have) then you wouldn't have to put up with as much nagging. However the current legal system has reduced that leverage so women have much fewer incentives to be mature and rational partners. I agree children can be a huge financial burden but that could be mitigated by a few factors which is beyond the scope here. I do think it's ridiculous women expect to suffer no financ…
/r/MGTOW03/10/18 06:16 AM
1

I think that's a fine ideal. However, there is less economic and social pressure to enforce it than there has been historically, so it's a riskier goal to pursue than it has in the past.
/r/MGTOW03/10/18 06:04 AM
1

They're ridiculous. They are caught up in millions of years of evolutionary programming and a (less historied) social programming. Fucking isn't a meaningful accomplishment. It has only a modicum of it's historical value. My message to incels and redpillers is they're vastly overvaluing sex. Understandable as to why but the precepts they're following are outdated.
/r/MGTOW03/10/18 04:44 AM
2

Honestly dating isn't the issue. The issue is that marriage is a joke and while men have been conditioned to the idea that marriage sucks (but you should do it and be a responsible provider), women have been conditioned to think that marriage is everything they want. So by the time a man marries he's fucking settled... he'd like to fuck other women but that's not how society works so he's ready to be responsible. A woman, on the contrary, (I suspect) has this much later in the relationship since…
/r/MGTOW02/10/18 09:44 AM
16

Assuming one would consider having a relationship l would disagree with you only slightly: I would suggest that maybe you should care about what a woman has/makes because if you don't then she's going to have you by the financial balls. Of course the only reason this matters is because of the artificial constraints of our legal system. If they want to enforce a fucking class system in America where people who make $X should only marry (or have kids with) other people who make $X then so be it. I…
/r/MGTOW02/10/18 09:22 AM
-1

Honestly I'm not sure. I'm a bit less extreme than some here: Ultimately most women are not worth the time and money. My philosophy is assume the relationship WILL end, and sacrifice only what is acceptable under that assumption.
/r/MGTOW01/10/18 01:02 PM
11

Recently broke up with my girlfriend. It was a long time coming. Decided she wasn't worth the hassle. Anyhow, if you enter into a relationship again, just assume the relationship will end. That way you will never sacrifice more than you are willing to lose. There are no unicorns, and I don't expect one, but I will make no sacrifices that I will regret. Most relationships are a waste of time and money.
/r/MGTOW01/10/18 12:50 PM
9

I support the notion that women can easily be negative value. Huge costs in time and money. But it'd help this sub be taken seriously (OK it won't ever be taken seriously but whatever) if comments like "of the Jewish faith" are excluded. MGTOW is a legitimate philosophy, let's avoid posts that make us seem the equivalent of shrill hateful SJW.
/r/MGTOW30/09/18 07:12 AM
1

It's true, it depends on her thought processes.
/r/TheRedPill18/04/13 04:48 AM
0

but, the girl didn't, obviously. you can't blame her because she has a differing view on relationships and commitment than you and OP. Yes, I can, the very least she could have done is clarified their relationship status at some point. Such as before she had sex with her ex. I didn't know that OP made his ex-gf cry, and he does sound like an ass, and finally, the girl is not a bitch. Is what he did was wrong? Yes. Understandable? Yes. Is their relationship irredeemably fucked because of what he …
/r/TheRedPill18/04/13 04:40 AM
-8

you comment that in a sub where spinning plates and dating multiple people is commonly seen as the only option for having a happy dating life? Buddy, this was on my front page, I have no idea what the norm for this sub is. OP's in college. i'm 20, and the girls that i date and all my friends would never consider themselves to be exclusive with someone if they just slept together a few times. I'm older than you (not too much older, though), but if I hung out with a woman for a month and slept wit…
/r/TheRedPill18/04/13 04:28 AM
8

Frankly, I think they should both trash it. They've been together for 7 months - that's nothing. This is going to be toxic for the rest of their relationship.
/r/TheRedPill18/04/13 03:58 AM
-10

I mostly agree with you, but OP said: Can't sleep and thought I should try asking for some advice. I've been seeing this girl, Beth, since September and we have been hanging out/dating for most of the time. Beth isn't as attractive as some of my exes, but we have a lot of fun together and I like spending time with her. I really like her. I asked her out after meeting her through a friend, and we had a fun couple of dates. Early on, like probably after a month into us hanging out she went and vis…
/r/TheRedPill18/04/13 03:55 AM
3

How to not look like a womanizer: Don't make out with 3 women in the same night. You say you made out with these girls, that you weren't even interested in, so casually. Are you sure you aren't the player type?
/r/seduction05/02/12 12:40 PM
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