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spokewrencher Archive

View 0 posts and 79 comments by spokewrencher on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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Upvotes Comment on Subreddit Date (UTC)
-1

Yeah, over-valuing aggression in males. Western society encourages violence as the way to solve problems and make people respect you, from this unhealthy state of nationalism to sexist stereotypes that force men to repress any emotions that have been arbitrarily deemed feminine (the worst thing imaginable, if your were born in the other gender cage). This is a major factor that leads to many of these killing sprees, this constant mental agony and instability. I clearly never implied that "men ar…
/r/MensRights31/03/13 02:52 AM
1

Your last example is more a problem of classist attitudes, working class people are regularly ignored and taken less seriously than someone who has had the privilege of a better education and upbringing. Sadly, that's not usually a factor that gets taken into consideration in most cases, even though socioeconomic realities are often a much more accurate indicator of privilege than melanin quantity or gender.
/r/MensRights31/03/13 02:28 AM
1

hmm, I don't see your point. I'm saying that glorifying violence at all is what leads to these problems, and it doesn't help men to be taught and held to these ideas to "prove" their masculinity, and maybe that's why it should be slightly redefined. Cultural norms aren't as concrete as they seem. In some ways, life today is dramatically different than it was a few decades before. Not too long ago, men were expected to die in duels over dumb shit. Valuing non-violence as a society isn't "emascula…
/r/MensRights31/03/13 01:53 AM
3

Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo The capital letters are important here, lol
/r/MensRights31/03/13 01:35 AM
-13

For one, the MRM is regularly flooded with straight up misogynists and racists, which distracts from the actual important issues. Not to say that describes more than a small percentage of MRAs, but it's the stuff that makes a negative impression on outsiders. Plus, some feminists actually do work for some men's rights issues, so maybe the MRM is seen as less inclusive.
/r/MensRights30/03/13 09:44 PM
0

I agree. What are we teaching boys about masculinity and glorifying violence in this (and many) societies? And what can we be doing to help them find better solutions that will help them and everyone lead happier lives? We need to be encouraging a more healthy masculine ideal, and discussing what that could be and how to do it.
/r/MensRights30/03/13 09:34 PM
1

I'm not actually a trans man, I just know and advocate for a lot of trans people, so I know how easily (or purposely) they get left out of discussions. I know sometimes an author implies them in the "all" category, I just find it's good to jump up and ask whether or not they intended that, because sometimes they don't and it starts a discussion.
/r/MensRights29/03/13 02:21 AM
10

Ah cool, thanks for that. Good post, upvoted c:
/r/MensRights28/03/13 02:24 AM
2

If anyone's interested in education and childhood development differences by gender, I would wholly recommend Pink Brain Blue Brain by Lise Elliot, who discusses these exact topics from a neuroscience background, and references an extensive number of studies to back it up. It's actually a fascinating read.
/r/MensRights28/03/13 02:14 AM
10

are you excluding trans men on purpose? Or just they get to be "defined by the parts they're born with", while we don't?
/r/MensRights28/03/13 02:02 AM
1

eh, I don't really think so in this instance. The article does make the point that the male teacher faces some resistance or mistrust from some parents, but that many male teachers are regarded as more special and loved anyway, almost like "school mascots". No one's saying that there aren't more male teachers because they need to act more like women, it really comes down to the fact that we don't pay teachers enough for the work they do, and men need to be made to feel more welcome in these envi…
/r/MensRights26/03/13 02:48 PM
1

Hah, thank you. Good links, too.
/r/MensRights25/03/13 09:03 PM
7

Wow, great piece but shitty title there. This could be used instead to encourage more male teachers to teach young kids, because they're so necessary, but the title just turns me away. Sad.
/r/MensRights25/03/13 08:45 PM
2

I agree, but part of that (about not encouraging men to go into women-dominated fields) is because those fields are devalued, because more women hold them, and society doesn't want men to associate with that, they're above it. It's a part of misogyny, and I agree it should absolutely be questioned and abolished, so that women and men can do anything they want and be happy doing it.
/r/MensRights25/03/13 08:29 PM
1

This. Just thinking about women who are forced to go through with a pregnancy they desperately don't want is horrifying, I think that'd be my worst fear. There's so much that can go wrong, not to mention it's physically incredibly dangerous and unimaginably painful. I think nearly every abortion and contraception restriction should be lifted, everyone has access to the help and medical care they need, and every child born should be wanted and cherished.
/r/MensRights22/03/13 02:00 AM
0

MRAs think feminism is a joke, feminists think MRA is a joke. Also, are you speaking for all MRAs and have you talked with every feminist on the planet? Your question is one big generalization.
/r/MensRights22/03/13 12:29 AM
0

Sure, don't bother reading any analysis, just look at the pictures. The point here is purposefully cherry-picked slices of data to make a sensationalized news meme.
/r/MensRights17/03/13 10:33 PM
2

Here's one: http://familyinequality.wordpress.com/2012/09/17/why-women-in-their-20s-earn-more/ It's not that there aren't enough college educated men, they presumably earn about the same, the difference is the huge numbers of low-wage minority workers in cities. Just age alone isn't enough to dismiss income inequalities, that misses a whole lot of other factors.
/r/MensRights17/03/13 09:38 PM
-2

that stat that women make more than men in their 20s has been largely dismissed, due to demographics. In cities, there's a large population of mostly white middle-class college-educated women and a large population of mostly minority males and immigrants working low wage jobs. The only relevance in gender comparison is in the same profession and level of education, in the majority of those cases women make consistently less.
/r/MensRights17/03/13 07:36 PM
12

What's wrong with that? So few things pass that ridiculously low metric. Find a movie or game that passes that with men, pretty fuckin easy, right? If we're going to pretend to give a shit about equality and representation, we should be supporting this.
/r/MensRights16/03/13 07:25 PM
1

This was also drawn and composed by a straight dude, doesn't seem real relevant to anything, much less a measure of actual equality in any sense.
/r/MensRights16/03/13 07:14 PM
2

Yeah, I don't know who you've been talking to, but they sound stupid. You seem to be generalizing substantially. Do some more research and list some concrete facts to discuss, maybe?
/r/MensRights13/03/13 01:25 AM
3

not property as in bought and sold, unless you include dowrys in many cultures, but they certainly did not have individual rights like men did, they were basically forced to have a caretaker to make decisions for them their whole lives. It might not be a perfect word, but it's not inaccurate to the way society worked ("slavery" is very inaccurate). They only existed in relation to the males, they would take the man's name because they were his. It's pretty established history, I wouldn't call it…
/r/MensRights09/03/13 06:15 PM
3

Also, women were viewed as property, passed from father to husband with no real rights. This is bullshit that in 2013 so many men are barred from changing their names too when they want, now that the original reason is irrelevant. Remember that guy in Florida a few months back who was charged with fraud by the state by taking his wife's name? Luckily my fiancee and I live in a state that has this equality, we both want to change our names to something new when we're married, only seems fair. Edi…
/r/MensRights08/03/13 05:25 PM
15

Sure she can, it is genetically equal to half of each of you, but you can't do anything to actually physically nourish it while it's being formed. You can't force an unwilling person to have their body used and exploited like that for a year or so, all you can do is find another willing partner, then everyone's happy. It's not just your decision, and you have a fuck ton less at stake at that stage.
/r/MensRights07/03/13 03:32 PM
5

Thank you for the only clarification here yet, why the fuck is that getting downvoted? ohya, for not being sensationalized and anti-women enough for this forum. Horrifyingly tragic story of mental instability and MGM in general, though.
/r/MensRights06/03/13 10:43 PM
5

You sound paranoid, they don't hate you for existing in school. Maybe bring up the point that you feel uncomfortable for whatever reason, and they'll probably discuss your ideas and accommodate you. Or go see the school councillor. Edit: you don't feel this hatred when the class is discussing male authors? You only feel personally vilified when they're not discussing men? This strikes me as odd, sorry.
/r/MensRights06/03/13 04:03 PM
1

True that's generally the worst of it, but in several countries that is the most common one performed, and that description is straight from Wikipedia. Could you show a source for "types of MGM that are more invasive than all forms of FGM" and show that they are just as common? I'm not an expert, and I'd like to learn.
/r/MensRights06/03/13 03:17 PM
-1

There are several people here partially approving FGM, and while I'm fully against MGM, I don't equate them. Here's a summary of the practice: "..is the removal of all external genitalia. The inner and outer labia are cut away, ...excision of the clitoris. The girl's legs are then tied together from hip to ankle for up to 40 days to allow the wound to heal. The girl may be pinned down so firmly that bones may fracture. The immobility causes the labial tissue to bond, forming a wall of flesh and …
/r/MensRights05/03/13 01:29 PM
6

The fight to be able to prove themselves and be regarded as equally competent to men, access to reproductive care, being complete and independent members of society, voting and property rights, access to education, among many others.
/r/MensRights05/03/13 03:21 AM
1

Thanks for the link, that is an excellent resource, I suppose I downplayed them too much in the comparison.
/r/MensRights05/03/13 02:23 AM
0

The main issue is that it is completely medically unnecessary to cut away healthy and normal tissue from an infant without it's consent and without anesthesia (because anesthesia is unsafe for newborns). However, if done right it makes no long term difference, and it is vastly different from female circumcision which severely and permanently damages them.
/r/MensRights04/03/13 08:38 PM
3

There are plenty female taxi drivers, more of the problem here is racism and zenophobia because most of them are recent immigrants of color.
/r/MensRights04/03/13 08:02 PM
0

Didn't mean to imply that, just this rash of "hey I'm a girl and I think that all girls are predators and have nothing to worry about" posts seem less than sincere.
/r/MensRights04/03/13 05:06 PM
0

Not trolling, just annoyed. Ignorance isn't a good debating tactic.
/r/MensRights04/03/13 04:02 PM
-1

Sure, but why not sympathize with all people who become victims to deceitful partners? You wouldn't be concerned with women who don't have access to BC medications and whose partners poke holes in condoms, who become pregnant against their will? Half of all Americans live in states actively hostile to abortion care, and there are many other factors involved. Arguably, they suffer slightly more than some men. Just a thought. Polarizing sides like this doesn't really help many people.
/r/MensRights04/03/13 02:24 PM
-28

You probably shouldn't speak for all women in every situation. Why are there so many basically identical FeMRA posts like this lately? You all sound like bratty high schoolers with no world experience.
/r/MensRights04/03/13 12:12 AM
2

Idiots/manchildren trying to find big words to sound smart in their not-at-all-emotional "wahh I want a baby now I'mma make up a new definition of rape because I have a partner who doesn't want a kid" Really man, you're the kind of person who probably shouldn't procreate.
/r/MensRights03/03/13 03:31 AM
5

dude, you sound like a rapist. Get a grip. Maybe you're confusing consent to sexual intercourse with all of reproduction? Having sex doesn't mean you're automatically entitled to get a kid, especially if you're not going to be the one carrying it. Have a basic sense of human decency and learn the definition of the word.
/r/MensRights03/03/13 02:59 AM
-2

Dude has 9 children he refuses to care for, and "has a long history with the courts, including cases involving drugs, domestic violence, and drinking and driving." This has a precedent and is only used in rare cases, and it's pretty far removed from forcing someone to give birth against their will. I wouldn't recommend supporting this asshole. Also, he's not banned from reproducing forever, just until he gets his shit together.
/r/MensRights03/03/13 12:14 AM
-1

Yeah, pulling random numbers and conspiracies out of your ass isn't going to help anyone. You'll have to try harder to say "men no longer have a voice in America" while the vast majority of legislators are still male, like we've always been.
/r/MensRights03/03/13 12:04 AM
1

Yeah, plus testosterone actually builds muscle, making that aggression easier, and average males have 8x more of it than average females. Obviously it's not an excuse, and men are perfectly capable of not being violent, but it's good to know the distinction and differences to work towards understanding.
/r/MensRights02/03/13 04:20 PM
-8

For starters, we don't have to birth a large mass that's been like a parasite for months, that shit sounds awful -- and then are punished by society and employers forever. We're taken more seriously automatically and are free to do basically anything we want for our whole lives. We control all power structures: government, police, education, business, etc.. We're the 'standard' and 'normal', nearly all media revolves around us, plus we get all that fun muscle-building testosterone; really, being…
/r/MensRights02/03/13 04:09 PM
4

Sounds like her father abandoned her, or maybe he died somehow. Also you shouldn't assume that everyone is that physically capable. Sad story, these people definitely need help. I wonder why their neighbors won't do anything for them?
/r/MensRights02/03/13 03:43 PM
2

Interesting, but I still wouldn't call it conclusive. They reference a number of studies that directly contradict their findings, the data they use is roughly 20 years old, and they seem to be fixated on conservative religious couples (perhaps not entirely, but it seems to be a main point). They also arbitrarily differentiate traditionally male and female house work, which seems to show that frequency of sex declines when they do more feminine associated chores, but increases when they do more m…
/r/MensRights01/03/13 02:25 AM
1

lol, you linked heartiste? pfft, not taking you seriously. Besides, click through all the links, it never goes back to an actual study, just sensationalized news sites with out any sample size or concrete numbers, with no links to academic papers. I'm not going to discuss my life, but it's very much the polar opposite of what you say, and the men in the original source self-reported that, too. It's not any more bull than your source, which is entirely bs. Btw, "receiving sex" is a weird way to t…
/r/MensRights28/02/13 11:55 PM
1

http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/science/health-human-body-sci/human-body/london-taxi-sci/ I think it's cool, since I do pretty much the same thing plus memorizing buildings as a bike messenger. Humans are amazing. What you use your brain for shapes it and changes certain regions and does certain tasks better, and I think this explains much of the difference seen in genders. We're still exposed to mostly different types of play early on and are set in different roles as we age, maybe th…
/r/MensRights28/02/13 10:48 PM
2

Good, yeah "male sexuality is not so different to female sexuality", that I can absolutely agree with, but the problem is this is not about sexual freedom, it's about a drug addict with serious problems, that's why the person did that and that's the crime they're being charged with. A more constructive approach would be a simple thread about sexuality double standards.
/r/MensRights28/02/13 06:56 PM
3

You're right, the sentencing thing is fucked, but a lot of that is more misogyny than misandry, even if they benefit. It comes from the idea that women are less responsible for their actions because they're idiots or something. But the story wasn't about that issue at all, and seems to be equally comparable to male offenders of the same thing. More of the problem in this country is the gross overpunishnent and for-profit prisons and quotas. It's no news that the justice system is massively unfai…
/r/MensRights28/02/13 05:51 PM
-2

Yeah, uh, are you kidding? Women don't get blamed for wear certain clothes or are told they caused the abuse, somehow? I'm not saying men don't deserve more help, everyone does, I'm just saying that's not the reception all victims get. Also, holy shit, typo. That "me" was meant to be "men" in the quote.
/r/MensRights28/02/13 05:31 PM
1

Exactly. I just really try to avoid any ideas that the genders brains are somehow incompatibly different, kind of leads to an assumption that there's some sort of test or standard to being on either side, instead of like a spectrum. Also to avoid the idea that all men are the same or all women think the same. Brain elasticity is fascinating, and how your actions can really change it. There were some interesting studies done on London taxi drivers who have to memorize every road and how their bra…
/r/MensRights28/02/13 03:58 PM
3

Well, when you realize that women are human beings too, all that follows. No one actually believes that women are perfect or some don't have serious problems. Incessantly posting things like this just makes the whole movement look like a bunch of sheltered and insecure misogynists, and it has no relevance to anything we're working for. Unless we're working specifically for drug rehabilitation or something, which it doesn't appear was the poster's intent.
/r/MensRights28/02/13 03:21 PM
4

yeah, but whoa, I'd be careful with that statement about different brain structures. [eta] True to a generalized extent, but everyone's brain is slightly different and it shouldn't be an argument that men and women are inherently different in a substantial way. [/eta] There's an awesome book called Pink Brain Blue Brain by Lise Elliot, a neuroscientist who started out looking for actual brain differences to explain gender differences, but basically concludes that all humans brains have zero inna…
/r/MensRights28/02/13 03:54 AM
7

I want to thank all the positive commenters on this, it's really given me hope for this community as a whole. Good work everyone, shutting down the bigots.
/r/MensRights28/02/13 03:23 AM
0

You're clearly on the losing side here, which is great. Really, when you look at it scientifically, the sexes are really not all that different. Male and female reproductive organs are basically the same part, that got a different set if instructions for location and function. We all have gonads and a weird tube, just some are inside and some out (and some have instructions to make large sex cells and other make small ones, reproduction is really a simple thing). The rest is simply a few differe…
/r/MensRights28/02/13 02:57 AM
4

the last page (and the end of the 2nd) is actually pretty good stuff. "[in more egalitarian partnerships] Men who have made these adjustments report happier marriages — and better sex lives. One thing standing in the way of further progress for many men is the same obstacle that held women back for so long: overinvestment in their gender identity instead of their individual personhood...The masculine mystique is institutionalized in work structures, according to three new studies forthcoming in …
/r/MensRights28/02/13 02:43 AM
5

It still exists, you'll just have to wait another half century to read the news story.
/r/MensRights28/02/13 02:21 AM
-25

That must be the same world where women who are abused by men are consistently asked, "what did you do to deserve it?". I don't mean to be insensitive, but shit sucks for all victims. Point is, absolutely, we as a society need to be much better about supporting male victims as well as female, they con't be completely dismissed because they don't all get that imaginary acceptance.
/r/MensRights28/02/13 02:04 AM
-28

Out there in the "shit I made up" fantasy world? No. Well, not where I'm from, but I'm in a place with a lot of inclusive support systems irl. It might be more accurate to say in mainstream society, victims of all body types have trouble, even a lot of women aren't treated like "brave survivors" in their conservative communities, but I don't feel like men are universally painted as "whiners" any more than women, and when they are it's usually by other men. I mean that's a pretty juvenile observa…
/r/MensRights28/02/13 01:36 AM
5

Wait, is this a place to ridicule drug addicts? Because there's a LOT more out there. Or is this here because the person wasn't a man? Because that's different, and probably shouldn't be in a space advocating men's rights, unless the real message here is "look, this is a person who has problems and who is a women, they're all bad, and men are pure little angels"? I don't think that's what we need.
/r/MensRights28/02/13 12:44 AM
1

Eehh, no again. Where do you people come up with this stuff? How does that start a useful discussion? Is it really that difficult to understand consent?
/r/MensRights27/02/13 11:52 PM
-33

Yeah, that's not true at all, your observation-meter must be off. Isn't this (and many others) supposed to be a community for support?
/r/MensRights27/02/13 11:41 PM
1

Good for you. Sounds like you're doing much better than me, an asshole bike messenger who has too much time to piss away on the internet.
/r/MensRights27/02/13 08:28 PM
1

That doesn't sound like terribly stable work, if you're on commission or something that's very different from salary, where there is a measurable difference between genders, in nearly every field.
/r/MensRights27/02/13 04:39 PM
-2

The difference there is a misandric lack of parental leave, which is something we should be fighting for. The US doesn't even have paid maternal leave, which hurts everyone. Look up places with paid paternal leave, like Sweden, those differences in pay essentially disappear. Also, the gap exists before becoming a parent.
/r/MensRights27/02/13 04:29 PM
-5

Do some more research indeed, beyond youtube quacks. It's not just that they "choose" lower paying jobs, they get paid less in the same positions, even when they have identical qualifications. As for politicians, of seems to be that people are just beginning to vote based on actual policies, instead of gender stereotypes. Also, women don't actually have all the same opinions or vote solely on body parts, it's like they're sentient human beings or something. People in general (women included in t…
/r/MensRights27/02/13 02:39 PM
-14

No, you just know how to use the system in place. Like you said, it's probably easy for you to get [low-level] jobs from your [presumably male] employer, you have access to government and health resources because you're a citizen, it's not any harder for men (unless you mean things like WIC, and that's because women generally have a disadvantage and need the assistance). The pay gap is absolutely and consistently real, there's an abundance of facts and studies to prove it, do some research. Sure…
/r/MensRights27/02/13 02:42 AM
1

Your first point doesn't make sense, I've never heard of that doctrine, but sure, it's not unheard of for "women's groups" to push anti-women policies. About circumcision, people don't do it out of pure hatred of men, it's about religion, and though some feminists have worked to end the practice, many governments have avoided an outright ban because it would disproportionately impact Jewish and Muslim communities. While it sucks and it's horribly unfair to hurt a newborn for no reason, it doesn'…
/r/MensRights26/02/13 06:42 PM
0

Well, here's one, published today: http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2013/02/25/male-nurses-make-more-money/ It's obviously not precisely 77% in every occupation, but it's consistently less.
/r/MensRights26/02/13 01:38 AM
-1

Is that why women in the same job with the same qualifications, experience, and education are paid 3/4 what men get? It's not because "women don't negotiate" or don't have bills to pay. Maybe by 'reveres' you mean 'objectifies' and devalues their intelligence to prefer looks? It's been ingrained in our culture to arbitrarily stereotype half of the entire population with society's worst qualities. They obviously get the worse end of the biological gamble. Sure, it's not fair that men are held to …
/r/MensRights25/02/13 11:19 PM
1

Honestly, I had a discussion with a friend who happened to be an MRA and pointed me to this space, so I decided to check it out. I don't think it's an issue of misogyny vs. misandry, it is exactly the same problem, on different ends of the spectrum, but the same for the people it affects. Like I said, I don't know any genetic males that fit this personally, but I do know 3 transwomen (MtF), and only 1 androgynous person [edit:actually, more than 3 androgynous, I'm forgetful]. To be fair, I haven…
/r/MensRights25/02/13 10:47 PM
-1

In what way? It is absolutely true, these people are real, and I'm just trying to bring some more open-minded discussion here. I think it'd be good for MRAs to understand (and accept) a broad spectrum of genders, including identifying as neither. Everything is so strictly and extremistly binary around here.
/r/MensRights25/02/13 03:16 AM
1

I think the idea fits more with MtF transpeople, FtM people consider themselves strongly to be men. Genetic males who don't feel they identify with masculinity would fit the description more, and become women.
/r/MensRights25/02/13 03:06 AM
0

These are their words.
/r/MensRights25/02/13 02:56 AM
-8

not that I know of, but that pretty accurately describes some people with xx genes I know. Growing up being made to feel inferior, misogynist culture, etc. really hurts a lot people. They now prefer gender-neutral pronouns and would rather be called a 'person' than a 'woman', since it's become so insulting.
/r/MensRights24/02/13 11:50 PM
-8

False accusation of anything would logically be an issue for every person, which is an observable fact. Rape trials and procedure are already massively misogynist, they have a huge burden of proof to argue, assumed to be wrong, they're publicly dragged through the mud and deal with patronizing judges in an attempt for basic justice, there's a backlog decades long of rape kit testing so rapists walk free for years. False accusations are exceedingly rare, it's hard to imagine why anyone would want…
/r/MensRights24/02/13 11:08 PM
-5

shit yeah, opinion pieces and the Telegraph are indisputable. Ever consider it might have a lot to do with the lack of social structures in place, and maybe a bit about how fucking hard it is to be forced into that position, not to mention socio-economic realities? Not every situation is comparable, and where did the "untold rule .. never to date a single mother" come from? You're saying the better option is for these parents to never find help and instead force the kids to be disadvantaged fore…
/r/MensRights24/02/13 10:47 PM
-5

That might be because there are SO FEW single fathers, they nearly universally push that responsibility on their (former) partner. I'm not saying there aren't great fathers, there certainly are, but it's not automatically expected of them like it is for women, and they'd rather not actually do the work. Can you cite some definitive proof of your claim? As someone raised by an awesome single mother and neglected/hit by a piece of shit father, I'm disagreeing fully with that. Actually, look up stu…
/r/MensRights24/02/13 10:26 PM
-12

That is a true statement. Name any issue, it applies. A lot of it is more like trans-misogyny, where men are berated and attacked for acting in a way that society considers 'feminine', such as wanting to be a primary caregiver or not being regarded as 'strong' in some way. People are incredibly judgmental (and misogyny is so rampant) which inevitably boxes men into society-approved 'no-emotion' roles that don't risk their illusion of power, so they can exercise the maximum amount of influence. I…
/r/MensRights24/02/13 09:53 PM
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