| Upvotes | Title | Category | Author | Subreddit | Date (UTC) |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2 | How correlated are attractiveness ratings by different people? | taw | /r/PurplePillDebate | 17/08/14 06:11 PM |
| Upvotes | Comment on | Subreddit | Date (UTC) |
|---|---|---|---|
| 3 | Q4ALL: By 2030 how much do you think dating and relationships will have changed?Look at Japan. That's where the rest of the world is heading. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/01/20 07:17 AM |
| 4 | What are your predictions for sex and gender issues in the 2020s?The West will turn into what Japan is now, except with worse social media. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/01/20 09:08 AM |
| 3 | CMV: Attractive men often think they're ugly or average so their dating advice can't be trusted either.Of all the PUA shit I've seen the only one I'd trust is this one video series run by a PUA who's a short, balding east Indian man with a thick accent. Do you have link to that? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 15/11/19 10:20 AM |
| 4 | CMV: Many of the couples who argue over division of household labor could afford a maid, and no good reason exists to avoid doing so for those couples who can afford it.So fucking true. Even when you're single, hiring someone to come every 2 weeks (or every week, depending on need) to do some house cleaning costs very little, and saves so much stupid effort. And a damn roomba etc. It's hilarious, as once upon a time women of a household had to manually laundry clothes, churn butter and do a lot of other crap we automated. Now we automate or outsource vast majority of that. One thing it won't help you with is children, that is way more expensive. If you don't ha… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/12/18 11:22 PM |
| 1 | I think my Gf has baby fever what to dothe only real risk is getting fucked by the courts in divorce Oh, that little thing. Pffft. It's not trivial for sure, but I was referring to crazy comments like: If you aren't already using condoms, start. Maintain your own condoms and before you use one check it for punctures. An yes keep your loaded condoms and throw their content in the toilet, so she cannot baby trap you like Dr Irons did to Dr Philips. Always use condoms and you must dispose of the condoms yourself (wash them out). Who the… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/12/18 01:33 AM |
| 3 | I think my Gf has baby fever what to doMost women, unless they strive to learn how, are not suitable to be mothers. That's an insane claim. Being parents is in our biology. Unless someone's really uniquely fucked up, they'll do fine. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/11/18 08:41 PM |
| 2 | I think my Gf has baby fever what to doThis woman could be a great GF but a total trainwreck for the mother of his kids. It's possible, but why start with such assumption? OP should just seriously consider a baby as a possibility and have a chat about it with his GF. The baby doesn't have to happen right now, just a discussion. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/11/18 08:32 PM |
| 6 | I think my Gf has baby fever what to doNobody is ever "ready". People become ready after baby happens. Also it usually takes many months of unprotected sex before baby happens, so you'll have time. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/11/18 04:39 PM |
| 5 | I think my Gf has baby fever what to doHow about just have a fucking baby together? It's what every one of your ancestors did, and it's totally natural. People overwhelmingly think that having a fucking baby was one of the best decisions they've ever made. Unless you're still teenagers, that's a totally reasonable idea. (also the level of paranoia on this sub, seriously, punctured condoms? did that ever happen? the only real risk is getting fucked by the courts in divorce) | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/11/18 04:37 PM |
| 1 | Can men and women ever become platonic friends?If both of them have someone else already, sure. If one or both of them are single, things tend to get complicated. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/11/18 07:44 PM |
| 1 | CMV: The easiest way for men (or women!) to get hotter is to lift and eat rightThese are the facts - lifestyle interventions for weight loss have success rate comparable with gay conversion therapy success rate. You not liking the facts doesn't change the facts. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/06/17 02:22 PM |
| 1 | CMV: The easiest way for men (or women!) to get hotter is to lift and eat rightSo you're saying gay conversion therapy doesn't work because most people are too sinful to commit to it? Fact are it has dismally low success rate, in both cases. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/06/17 01:43 PM |
| 1 | CMV: The easiest way for men (or women!) to get hotter is to lift and eat rightI've heard stories of people doing it in US, so presumably that's a thing. I'm pretty sure it's actually a lot harder to bullshit your way into a prescription in most European countries. If you want to lose weight, and have access to Adderall, sure, go for it. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/06/17 02:47 PM |
| 1 | CMV: The easiest way for men (or women!) to get hotter is to lift and eat rightThe whole ci/co is bullshit. Most modern food If you change your lifestyle then maybe you prevent or slow down further weight gain (or possibly slowly get back to healthy level), but rapid weight loss is simply not part of how we function ever, so the body will do everything it can to stop that. It's just not part of our biology. It will make you persistently hungry, tired, depressed, obsessed with food, unable to function, and do everything you can to get those calories. If you forcefully semi-… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/06/17 02:43 PM |
| 1 | CMV: The easiest way for men (or women!) to get hotter is to lift and eat rightWell, it's not like War on Drugs is going to be cancelled anytime soon (at most it will become War on Drugs Except Weed, and even that is taking ages) so it's not like you can ask your doctor to prescribe you some amphetamine for weight loss. Right now you're more likely to have problems due to law enforcement or due to crap sold to you as "amphetamine", than serious issues with phentermine. No drugs are 100% safe, but then again, neither is staying fat. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/06/17 02:25 PM |
| 1 | CMV: The easiest way for men (or women!) to get hotter is to lift and eat rightI guess all the research ever made is wrong then. We need to end science, thank you for showing us the light. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/06/17 09:21 PM |
| 3 | CMV: The easiest way for men (or women!) to get hotter is to lift and eat rightto lift and eat right So you think ugly fatties never tried that? Never even considered that it might be a way? 77% of Americans are actively trying to eat healthier [...] 19% say they’re on a diet. Gym membership is also exploding. It used to be extremely rare, now it's over 55m people in US. Same story in other countries. And how well is that working for them? Fucking awfully. Success rate of dieting, exercise, and so on is not just low - it's dismally low. Now you could say that what they're … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/06/17 08:52 PM |
| 1 | Would banning abortion change the SMP?No idea, just check their website. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/11/16 12:50 PM |
| 1 | Would banning abortion change the SMP?There's a lot of talk among activists on both sides, but how often Supreme Court goes against stare decisis in its whole two century history? There's a handful of such examples ever. Even really stupid decisions remain. All the actual cases are about minutiae not covered by the original decision, like regulating abortion clinics like regular clinics, parental notification requirements, etc. Anyway, Trump is a total fake, as soon as elections were over he's back to being bffs with Hillary, and al… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/11/16 09:18 AM |
| 2 | Would banning abortion change the SMP?There are developed countries where abortion is illegal (Ireland, Poland etc.) and people just learn to use birth control properly. So no. Also, stare decisis, and Trump was pro-abortion before primaries, so nobody's taking anybody's right to abort all the babies they want. I'd be surprised if Republicans even manage to do as little as remove federal funding from Planned Parenthood. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/11/16 07:48 AM |
| 6 | Discussion on California passing "yes means yes" law4 is the most idiotic thing of all times. No other country in the world ever came up with anything that stupid - this is serious business for real police and real courts. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/09/14 10:56 PM |
| 5 | Ozy Frantz's Anti-Heartiste FAQThat's very low threshold - "less planned, more organic way of approaching people" has extremely low success rate for most people of either gender. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/09/14 07:38 PM |
| 3 | Ozy Frantz's Anti-Heartiste FAQIt's quite difficult to imagine a world where "game doesn't work" - just going for the numbers and failing early even the most awful techniques would appear to "work", and even if theory behind game was completely wrong, people would still discover some sort of techniques by sheer chance. (That might be pretty close to the real world - different people's theories why game works are drastically different, as are techniques.) | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/09/14 04:06 PM |
| 1 | How correlated are attractiveness ratings by different people?Thanks. This is exactly what I was asking for. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 19/08/14 10:07 PM |
| -1 | Why don't you lift heavy weights?And the actions are? Lifting enthusiasts here bothered with zero sources so far. | /r/askTRP | 18/08/14 11:29 AM |
| 0 | Why don't you lift heavy weights?What kind of lifting did prehistoric man ever do? It's a really weird thing to do. Humans never lifted anything until this modern fad, they just walked and ran a lot (and probably swam a good deal too). People are so damn good at running we outrun horses long distance, and if we keep doing that we can be extremely good at running even in our 80s. It peaks in 30s, but decline is ~1%/decade - in pretty much every other physical activity fall from the peak is way faster. Cycling and most types of r… | /r/askTRP | 18/08/14 11:27 AM |
| -1 | Why don't you lift heavy weights?Do you even Lift? Oh so that's where this came from - TRP got this dumb idea from 4chan's /fit/. That explains everything, those guys are just awesome with women. | /r/askTRP | 18/08/14 11:08 AM |
| -2 | Why don't you lift heavy weights?That's somewhat true - high level endurance athletes usually do some small about of lifting (like 10% of their total exercise). Here's an example from Michael Phelps ("He keeps the weights to just a few days to avoid bulking up"). Meanwhile he does cardio so hardcore his body literally couldn't absorb any more calories - if he wanted to swim any more than he already does he'd need to get calories intravenously. And with this kind of exercise he looks pretty attractive. Meanwhile people who go to… | /r/askTRP | 18/08/14 10:19 AM |
| 0 | Why don't you lift heavy weights?Those guys definitely exercise, but I doubt many of them do hardcore lifting. Most people's exercise tends to be cardio-centric for a good reason. If you're really serious about exercise there's typically going to be a small bit of lifting thrown into the mix, but nothing like what this sub obsesses about. Exercise routine seems to be a common interview question famous people are asked (especially but not only athletes), so you can check it for yourself if you have time. I doubt you'll find even… | /r/askTRP | 18/08/14 10:09 AM |
| 0 | Why don't you lift heavy weights?None of them have lifter bodies. They're either skinny or at most have endurance athlete body. (there's a tennis player on a list, a swimmer, probably a few more athletes, but definitely 0 lifters) | /r/askTRP | 18/08/14 08:58 AM |
| -3 | Why don't you lift heavy weights?Women would take a weightlifter over a marathon runner any day. Go to any womens site, see who they obsess over - the list will include zero lifters. It's just a fact. This body type has extremely limited appeal. Here's a random example. Go find some lifters there. Or on any other such list. | /r/askTRP | 18/08/14 08:51 AM |
| -7 | Why don't you lift heavy weights?Humans did not evolve to lift, and at no point in history was that ever useful for anything. This is some modern nonsense. In fact average teenage chimp has far more arm strength that the strongest humans. Humans evolved to run and do other serious cardio. We are fucking amazing at it. Cycling/swimming/soccer/etc. are also perfectly acceptable substitutes. Just compare bodybuilders and weightlifters and how fucking hideous they look with any endurance athletes who tend to be pretty damn attracti… | /r/askTRP | 18/08/14 08:37 AM |
| 23 | "Involuntary celibacy." Do people who identify with and adopt that title deny they have personal responsibility?Your logic is the same bullshit as people who claim "involuntarily unemployment" doesn't exist. Both happen all the time. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 16/08/14 08:46 PM |
| 1 | I keep hearing that TRP "want to be proven wrong" or "are open to being proven wrong". Does anyone have an example where theredpill has admitted it's wrong?I'm not anypill, so I don't count for threads like this, but you'll find it very difficult to find anybody publicly changing their mind about anything major over span of one comment thread anywhere, not just redpill. Here's an example of something nontrivial I changed my mind about recently: I thought 2:1 divorce initiation ratio between women and men was due to divorce laws being so biased against men. Turns out lesbian couples have 2:1 ratio to gay couples, even though they don't have any fami… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 02/08/14 09:30 AM |
| 5 | Why do women initiate most divorces?The most interesting data point here is from same sex marriages. Woman-woman marriages end in divorce at 1.5x-2x the rate of man-man marriages, depending on country. That's about the same as ratio for wife-initiated to husband-initiated heterosexual marriages. This is very incompatible with two popular explanations: that it's mostly husband's fault even if wife initiates divorce (if it was, gay marriages would be least stable) that it's mostly due to legal system siding with women in terms of ch… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/06/14 07:08 AM |
| -1 | Not a seduction question, but when I see a really pretty girl, I don't fantasize about "banging" her. I crave other forms of intimacy.Congratulations on being a healthy human being :-D | /r/seduction | 05/06/14 07:45 PM |
| 1 | Do girls feel guilty for cheating ?Polyamory is no even close to cheating. Open or otherwise nonmonogamous relationships work for some people just fine. | /r/askTRP | 05/06/14 07:39 PM |
| 1 | After the age-old debate, and first-hand experience, "calling vs. texting" - this is what I've found.How old are you? This is basically generational divide. If you're into older women - call, if you're into younger women - text. | /r/seduction | 21/04/14 11:58 AM |
| 1 | Maybe the "beta male" thing isn't as bullshit as I thought...From my experience people who are into BDSM tend to understand that if someone's not comfortable with something, they're not, and guilt tripping them into it is just stupid and wrong. Maybe you can get them into it gradually, but that won't work with everyone. Mostly because other people who are also generally into BDSM are probably into somewhat different subset or intensity of it, and compatible limits need to be agreed on and respected - much more so than with vanillas who can presume they're… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 19/04/14 12:30 AM |
| 8 | Does a married man have a reasonable expectation of frequent sex?The problem that a lot of people have, including many TRP people, is they have this notion that a relationship is "sex for resources." But that is not what marriage was, it wasn't "sex for resources" it was "children for resources." Historically this isn't really accurate. Permanent impotence was considered grounds for annulment, permanent sterility explicitly wasn't (since then old people couldn't marry at all). | /r/PurplePillDebate | 15/04/14 06:14 PM |
| 3 | Rates of marriage are down across the western world. Elephant in the room: are men refusing to marry because of sense of entitlement?Where are you getting your data from? Bias in data is massive - vast majority of the time the woman gets the child, the man gets maybe some visitation rights at best, and has to pay a ton of money to the woman (regardless of his ability to pay, no way out, and with no evidence that the money is used for child's needs). Here's some more statistics. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/14 11:48 PM |
| 1 | STOP DOWNVOTING!It's not really possible to point lack of coherence in something that as far as I can tell doesn't even exist. If there's any definite statement of what Red Pill claims, that would be interesting to discuss, but I've never really seen any. Judging from the subreddit itself, RP = PUA + bitterness + misogyny, more or less. Of all that I don't really mind PUA stuff (it's usually seriously exaggerated, but there's also a lot of truth in it). Random examples of problems with RP: people on RP simultan… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/14 10:51 PM |
| 3 | Why is TRP so anti-education?It kinda sucks to do something you hate, but it sucks a lot more to have a choice between long term unemployment and working as a Walmart greeter after gender studies major. ROI is not the only thing to consider, but if someone completely ignores that, they have nothing to blame but themselves. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/14 10:09 PM |
| 1 | STOP DOWNVOTING!Since TBP is basically anti-TRP and has no position itself, TRP doesn't really have much of a coherent position either. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/14 08:54 PM |
| 7 | Why is TRP so anti-education?It's possible, but we have extremely good data on ROI by college major. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/14 08:52 PM |
| 5 | Rates of marriage are down across the western world. Elephant in the room: are men refusing to marry because of sense of entitlement?J4G has ton of data suggesting it's mostly women who don't want to marry, not men. I'd consider that as reliable as gender statistics ever get. As for entitlement, family laws are extremely stacked against men, and risk of divorce and ex-wife taking half your money and all your children is very high, so it would be understandable if men didn't want to get married. It's a bit surprising women who benefit from this system don't want to do so even more. (I don't really buy the RP worldview that men… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/14 08:47 PM |
| 1 | TRP/TBP taking a toll on my mental health. Gonna need to step back for a while.Also, the downvoting has to stop. It seems to mostly be coming from the RP side but it's cunty regardless. If you disagree, just say why you disagree or ignore the post altogether. Disabling downvote button worked so wonderfully a few years ago, now half the people use mobiles and still see the button :-( It's still a ton less downvoting here than on /r/magicTCG | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/04/14 11:25 AM |
| 2 | Divorce Risk Calculator -- Based on data from the National Survey of Family GrowthI don't see why daughters would be more expensive than sons. I'd expect sons to be more expensive actually, but then I have no non-anecdotal evidence. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/04/14 11:21 AM |
| 3 | Divorce Risk Calculator -- Based on data from the National Survey of Family GrowthWow, that's interesting. I'm surprised how big stated preference difference is in the poll (men say they'd prefer their only child to be son over daughter by 2.5x rate), but then that has tiny effect on measured behaviour. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/04/14 10:38 AM |
| 5 | Divorce Risk Calculator -- Based on data from the National Survey of Family GrowthIt listed "The Four Horsemen": Criticism, Contempt, Defensiveness, & Stonewalling. All four were the biggest predictors of a failing relationship. You can't realistically get any actuarial values for that. And even if you did it would be useless since such things can change from day to day, might very well be symptoms not risk factors of a failing relationship, and nothing in psychology suggests these are stable traits as far as I know. I'm sure someone has data on how couple demographics (age d… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/04/14 11:05 PM |
| 3 | Divorce Risk Calculator -- Based on data from the National Survey of Family GrowthBet this also applies to men, too Somewhat, but not as much. Women initiate 2/3 of divorces (and before anybody inevitably blames men for that, lesbian marriages are about 2x as likely to end in divorce than gay marriages, so it more or less checks out), so woman is the primary risk factor. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/04/14 10:59 PM |
| 8 | Do you believe that women are bombarded with "unhealthy and unrealistic expectations" of women's bodies?Studies have come out showing men prefer women in the average BMI range I'd be interested in seeing those studies. Here's an example of a study showing that men prefer women as thin as possible, while women prefer men with BMI of about 24-26 (slightly overweight). | /r/RedPillWomen | 03/04/14 09:51 PM |
| 5 | Is purplepilldebate overrun by TRP vote brigading?Is TRP even big enough to vote brigade anyone? TRP is a small minority even on men's reddits /r/theredpill - 44k /r/MensRights - 87k /r/seduction - 165k /r/fitness - 476k (assuming half of that is men, probably most) | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/03/14 09:19 PM |
| 3 | Sex at dawn question: if hunter gatherer societies practiced forced egalitarian multisexual partnering, then why is there a propensity for modern women to prefer alpha males? Shouldn't they be happy with fucking multiple betas instead?These are people "uncontacted" directly by modern civilization, they pretty much all have extensive history of contact with neighbouring groups. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/14 02:52 PM |
| 1 | Other explanations for human sexuality other than evolutionary and sociobiology.Age-adjusted divorce rates did not decline. Crude divorce rate is down because the kind of people who were most likely to divorce just stopped getting married, and age distribution shifted, marriage is currently least stable ever. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/14 02:49 PM |
| 2 | Other explanations for human sexuality other than evolutionary and sociobiology.To me it feels that divorce statistics go extremely hard against evopsy. Most divorces are initiated by women, and mostly long past their reproductive prime age. By evopsy logic in marriage men benefit more initially (having exclusive reproductive access to fertile attractive young woman), but women benefit more late (having provider long after they're past their prime, even when their husband could have dumped them to find someone else to reproduce with). This extremely strongly predicts that i… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/14 02:48 PM |
| 1 | Other explanations for human sexuality other than evolutionary and sociobiology.One of the things that surprised me is how PUA groups tend to be very evopsy focused, MRA groups tend to be very culture focused, but then attraction and sex (what PUAs tend to care about) are probably much more biological, while marriage, divorce, and parenting (what MRAs tend to care about) are probably much more cultural, so that might be it. Reddit TRP seems to have diverged quite far from "mainstream" PUA and MRA, and it's hard to tell where it stands. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/14 02:43 PM |
| 6 | Sex at dawn question: if hunter gatherer societies practiced forced egalitarian multisexual partnering, then why is there a propensity for modern women to prefer alpha males? Shouldn't they be happy with fucking multiple betas instead?We have evidence of extensive trading networks as far back as 100kya, by archeological findings of a lot of traded material hundreds of km outside its source of origin. For all we know we might have been trading on smaller scale for millions of years. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/14 02:06 PM |
| 6 | Sex at dawn question: if hunter gatherer societies practiced forced egalitarian multisexual partnering, then why is there a propensity for modern women to prefer alpha males? Shouldn't they be happy with fucking multiple betas instead?We do not have "modern primitives". Amazon tribes people love so much like Yanomami use slash and burn horticulture, and fight with traded steel machetes. Bushmen live on marginal lands where they've been pushed by agriculturalists and pastoralists. etc. All the "uncontacted" people show history of extensive contact when you look closer. (Andamanese are sort of an exception) | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/14 02:00 PM |
| 8 | Sex at dawn question: if hunter gatherer societies practiced forced egalitarian multisexual partnering, then why is there a propensity for modern women to prefer alpha males? Shouldn't they be happy with fucking multiple betas instead?Your argument somewhat applies to paleo diets (except humans managed to settle all continents and adapted to extreme diversity of diets just fine, and we even find evidence of some grains consumption from way back). Your argument completely fails for sexuality. First we know absolutely nothing about Paleolithic sexuality (and in all likelihood it was extremely diverse from culture to culture) - we can just make wild guesses based on other data, but then the argument should go from that other dat… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/14 06:28 AM |
| 1 | Why Women Should Not Run. The first release of this article was attacked by feminists who deemed it "misogynistic", so the no-nonsense author edited it, adding even more scientific insight and unconventional wisdom.Generally to scientific content of the article. (not to OP's commentary title) | /r/RedPillWomen | 26/03/14 06:17 AM |
| 2 | Why Women Should Not Run. The first release of this article was attacked by feminists who deemed it "misogynistic", so the no-nonsense author edited it, adding even more scientific insight and unconventional wisdom.The article is pretty dubious. Thyroid hormones regulate metabolism, and their levels differ based on metabolic conditions (weight, caloric intake, exercise) - because that's what they're for - adapting body's responses to metabolic needs. But that's an extremely tight feedback loop, and there's a pretty wide range of healthy levels of thyroid hormones. If you believe you might have thyroid problems, check with your doctor. It's a quick and cheap blood test, it's a relatively common condition (l… | /r/RedPillWomen | 26/03/14 03:40 AM |
| 11 | Sex at dawn question: if hunter gatherer societies practiced forced egalitarian multisexual partnering, then why is there a propensity for modern women to prefer alpha males? Shouldn't they be happy with fucking multiple betas instead?It's about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_at_Dawn Big pronouncements about human sexuality coming from evopsych point of view are basically total bullshit because: we have zero cases of anybody who even remotely looks like unconcacted Paleolithic humans in existence to study Paleolithic sexuality doesn't really leave any serious archeological evidence (there is genetic evidence, and we can judge some things about sexuality after early civilizations emerged by burial practices etc. but this is … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/03/14 03:26 AM |
| 22 | Text vs. CallPeople under 30 or so just don't use phones for calling any more. Phones are for texting and internet. If you're into older people, call. If you're into younger people, definitely text. Calling won't make you "alpha", it would make you her dad. | /r/seduction | 09/11/13 06:42 PM |
| 5 | Guys vs. Girls "numbers"Just don't be a hypocrite about it if you fucked around a lot. | /r/seduction | 03/12/11 08:14 PM |
| 1 | "The Shy Delusion: Yes, it is all in your head." - A great article that all people who think they are shy should read.This is very much like "healthy diet and exercise" approach to cancer that got Steve Jobs killed. | /r/seduction | 07/11/11 02:57 AM |
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