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View 0 posts and 103 comments by thatskappa on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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I don't find this to be a woman thing necessarily. My BF is like this, it pains him to call people unattractive even when that's obviously the case. For me it depends on how comfortable I am with the person I'm talking to and how likely they are to repeat my words to others. If I don't trust them as far as I can throw them, I'm gonna say everybody's a 10.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/24 06:18 PM

O, waiting until marriage
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/24 01:13 PM

I think a lot of of it has to do with increasing awareness of the insanely skewed gender ratio. Finding out there is literally 1 woman for every 3 men on Tinder is going to give any reasonable person pause.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/24 03:52 AM

That makes two of us
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/24 02:57 AM

"Attractive young-looking person is actually bazillion years old" is an old trope not limited to women's lit. A key element is exploring the drama/tragedy of bonds between beings with very different life spans. In one of my favorite video games the main character's major love interest is a 1000 year old dragon woman who cuts her life short to be with him in the human realm.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/24 02:31 AM

Fair enoughh
/r/PurplePillDebate07/12/24 05:43 AM

Animals can't leave a zoo whenever they want lol
/r/PurplePillDebate07/12/24 03:38 AM
9

That how people behave in most areas of life will neatly map on to their sexual preferences. In The Four Loves, a late writer who is very popular among Christians had this to say in 1960. This act can invite the man to an extreme, though shortlived, masterfulness, to the dominance of a conqueror or a captor, and the woman to a correspondingly extreme subjection and surrender. Hence the roughness, even fierceness, of some erotic play; the "lover's pinch which hurts and is desired." How should a s…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/24 08:05 PM
47

Being nice/gentlemanly is not automatically incompatible with being freaky. The fact that she literally asked you instead of just giving up earlier shows she doesn't even think that's true in all cases. You just happened to be a case where the conventional wisdom is true.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/24 07:24 PM

Thank you, I appreciate your feedback.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/24 02:08 PM

That's great and all but has nothing to do with the question I asked, which is how a man would be obligated (or not) to respond if another man he has been best friends with since childhood were to ask him this. So this is about what you feel obligated to do if your best friend made the request. "Absolutely, John, I would do anything to help give you peace of mind during these trying times in your life." If that's the answer, okay. I see no issues.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/24 02:01 PM

The only way this helps women is if an individual isn't applying consistent expectations to the woman and the male best friend in this situation and therefore has been exposed as possessing double standards. So apparently we've established you're in the "applies to women, but not men" camp.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/24 01:44 PM

A lifelong best friend is as committed a relationship as it gets outside of marriage, and nowhere did I even suggest a right or wrong answer. I value consistency of viewpoints over agreement with my own. There is only one party trying to "slither" here, and it is definitely you.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/24 01:35 PM

All right, time for a consistency test. Does this apply to men as well? Man learns that his kid isn't his and suspects his best friend since childhood might be the dad. He goes to his best friend, says "look, for my peace of mind, I need to test your DNA to make sure you didn't fuck my wife." Is the only acceptable answer "yes, absolutely"?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/24 01:20 PM

And I can't imagine having premarital sex! Yeah imagination is funny like that.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/24 05:29 AM
1

He's my BF lol
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/24 05:20 AM
3

Precedent in my family
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/24 05:19 AM
4

The field I'm studying you mean? All I'll say is that my only real options were ever STEM, finance, and law (but only corporate/commercial).
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/24 04:17 AM
6

Just a postgrad student. The privilege is 100% an accident of birth. My great-grandfather grew up in poverty and was obsessed with the idea of sending all of his kids to college, specifically for degrees in high income/high status fields. Rest is history.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/24 03:19 AM
6

No. I've admittedly had a very privileged life to the point where diminishing marginal utility is in full effect for anything a man has to offer me financially.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/24 02:06 AM
4

That's wild. I've never seen gym outfits like this irl but the main one I go to is my Bible Belt subdivision's clubhouse gym. This is as risqué as the outfits are getting. <image>
/r/PurplePillDebate05/12/24 08:38 PM
2

Nope not at all. I've noticed that people who lack self-awareness really like to point to a fatal non-flaw that makes no sense to avoid acknowledging their actual problems. The one guy I know who unironically said that irl was blatantly ignoring all of the selfless, caring, amazing guys we knew who were in happy relationships because "I'm too nice" was apparently the easiest thing for him to believe. No his biggest flaws were things people didn't have the heart to tell him, like talking for hour…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/12/24 05:12 PM
3

I find that the conventional expectation is that a woman have no hair under her armpits. That is an aesthetic preference completely unrelated to hygiene. Yeah it's probably good to not let it get to sasquatch length but women naturally grow less body hair than men anyway. A woman whose armpit hair is growing as long and thick as a man's probably has a condition like PCOS.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/12/24 10:36 PM
14

Is this an OLD thing? Like you're referring to women who have all of that stuff on their profiles? I would be very wary of anyone who is making their profile look more like an ad on Craig's List than a page communicating who they are as a person and why you might like to get to know them.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/12/24 07:09 PM
5

I think it's important for the individual to reflect on what the actual heart of the issue is and what the intentions are. I imagine a scenario with a dude talking about "getting his needs met elsewhere" and the woman being indifferent, relieved, or perhaps even enthusiastic. How does that make him feel? Did he get what he wanted? Or was this about wanting her to be jealous and begging him not to, and therefore the "solution" hasn't really solved anything.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/12/24 04:11 PM
3

Live to serve!
/r/PurplePillDebate04/12/24 09:01 AM
5

You have my full permission to not take anyone on this sub seriously. I sure don't.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/12/24 08:20 AM
5

Your friends sound like very open-minded people who aren't questioning "but is this actually a chick" whenever faced with a mildly masculine woman. Once again, as the Olympics demonstrated on many fronts, that attitude is not the mainstream consensus by any stretch.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/12/24 07:38 AM
5

I do value my family's input, particularly to make sure there aren't any glaring issues I've missed with rose-tinted glasses. I've always been inspired by a certain mantra that also happens to come from my family: "You're the one who has to go to bed with him." The mantra meant many things. It applied to not simply dating a man because he was nice, or had the right qualities on paper, or even because they liked him. Marriages live and die by attraction and chemistry, or so the wisdom in my famil…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/12/24 07:29 AM
10

The kind of social media "muscle mommies" men drool over still tend to have very feminine features and presentation. So no I would not consider that an equivalent. I don't exactly recall seeing men fawn over women's rugby players at the Olympics this summer. Beach volleyball though? Lol you bet
/r/PurplePillDebate04/12/24 07:13 AM
27

I'm terms of behavior/dress, yes. For physical features like face, no. Notice how there isn't a "rugged bearded woman" equivalent to "pretty boy" craze.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/12/24 04:37 AM
5

Obviously I'm not your daughter, but I am a woman with fingernails. One upside to wearing fake nails is cost. Depending on the type you're purchasing, they can achieve a similar look to salon nails without being as expensive. Can she afford to go to the salon to make her natural nails look like that? If not, fake nails are an available alternative. The second is protecting your nails. The more you let your nails grow out, the more likely they are to break. I get compliments on my natural nails a…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/12/24 01:02 AM

Afaik pre-med isn't a major, so there is no "extra degree." A lot of people will go for the obvious majors that overlap with pre-med reqs anyway, like Chem or Biology or something. Others will do humanities majors to try to distinguish themselves from Biology major number #2999 applying to med school.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/12/24 09:54 PM

"Pre-med students who want to look well-rounded" major
/r/PurplePillDebate03/12/24 09:38 PM

Welcome to pretty much any family that's ever had to deal with widowed grandpa's estate
/r/PurplePillDebate03/12/24 09:35 PM

I feel like it was originally meant to be more sarcastic than anything, like you're crying for this person because they're so weird or pathetic. I think that evolved into people thinking of it as laughing at someone. Not internet expert though.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/12/24 08:05 PM
12

This would close the culture from outsiders That is textbook gatekeeping logic word-for-word from your post. Different hobbies, interests, etc. have different casual markers. For Harry Potter, that could be someone who enjoys the movies and the theme parks but hasn't read the books + every word on J.K. Rowling's blog or whatever. For Pokémon the distinction is people who care about natures or whatever other competitive play gimmick that people who just want to catch some cute critters are probab…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/12/24 07:18 PM
16

There's a reasonable proposition here buried under straight-up gatekeeping nonsense. Male casuals exist. The idea that most men are hyperfixated on a narrow set of interests likely comes from self-selecting into specific circles of men. My BF and I actually have a running joke between us since his family thinks he enjoys gaming way more than he actually does at this point in his life and keep buying him consoles and games. He is very interested in lore behind particular game franchises, but not …
/r/PurplePillDebate03/12/24 06:07 PM
7

It's like the Haily Mary pass in football. When it works, what a legendary way to finish. People are gonna remember it as a moment for the ages, arguably moreso than a game that was won with a comfortable lead and had no twists and turns and risks along the way. When it doesn't work, and it does in fact fail most of the time as far as I know, it's sad and pathetic and people are pissed. Some of this comes down to how we asess a "good strategy." Couples who make it to the lovers stage after a clo…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/12/24 05:47 PM
1

All I'll say is, I've never seen a good-looking man in woman's clothing and thought he looked worse off for it
/r/PurplePillDebate03/12/24 05:01 AM
2

I understand your suspicions regarding brows and lashes. But...nails? You think she's insecure about her natural nails?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/12/24 03:32 AM
23

I grew up in Bible Belt suburbs lol. Conforming to a particular brand of cheerful upbeat femininity wasn't just a matter of being accepted by men, it was a matter of being accepted by anyone. I don't really fear "not enough" because it's so thoroughly ingrained at this point I don't have to think about it at all.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/12/24 01:45 AM
15

Yeah I can see the exact Wiktionary article you copy pasted from while conveniently glossing over aspects of the history and connotation of the word that don't fit the way you feel like using it
/r/PurplePillDebate02/12/24 11:37 PM
17

So your OP asked why women have an issue with being "mother and whore." If you are referring to women who speak English at native proficiency, it's probably because their understanding of the word "whore" is very different from yours. Let's go back to the roots of the word. Woman who has sex for money. It's all about the client and has nothing to do with her enjoyment. Hopefully that is not what a romantic couple with mutual respect and love for one another is aiming for.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/12/24 10:58 PM
20

If a woman is expressing that she feels like a "whore" or that she is expected to be one, she probably feels like she is being degraded in some way. Don't get me wrong I'm sure there are women who enjoy it in the same way there are men who enjoy feeling like mommy's little bitch, but that's something both people need to be consenting to.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/12/24 10:28 PM
0

A bit different. Moving goal posts is more about increasing your demands of the opposing proposition rather than retreating to a more reasonable stance that's easier to defend.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/12/24 04:37 PM
1

That is yet another bad example because there is no indication the arguer took up the second position to avoid defending their original point. This can be reasonably interpreted as two people disagreeing on what a slang term means. This would be a correct Motte & Bailey situation: Bailey: "It gives me the ick when men cry" Challenge: "I don't think that's a reasonable expectation to have of your partner. What if a close relative or lifelong friend of his dies?" Motte: "I'm just saying that I wan…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/12/24 07:48 AM
1

u/whatever8482 Sorry to break this up but this is absolutely not what Motte and Bailey means. One of my biggest internet pet peeves is namedropping logical fallacies and completely misunderstanding what they mean. This a proper example of Motte and Bailey from https://answersingenesis.org Arguer: Churches indoctrinate children with dangerous myths, so youth under 18 shouldn’t be allowed to attend church (bailey). Respondent: Actually, denying minors the right to decide whether and where they wor…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/12/24 06:24 AM
14

You're reminding me of an Instagram reel I saw recently where street interviewers ask random people what a "red flag" name for men is. Everyone in the video, male and female, says "James." A few seconds of logical thought would indicate that they got many different answers but thought it would be funny to compile everyone who said James. Sadly I think there are definitely people on this sub and beyond who would unironically believe that every single person they asked gave the same answer and soc…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/12/24 06:03 AM
6

Yeah I'm gonna trust my initial impressions just as adamantly as you trust yours
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/24 09:41 PM
4

There are definitely signs of some glaring socioeconomic factors in your response that may indicate why our experiences are very different
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/24 09:07 PM
7

Do you spend time with any young conventionally attractive women in real life
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/24 08:35 PM
1

I think for better or worse a lot of people on this sub base their views of dating/desirability of either sex on the assumption that a person is using dating apps or other online means of meeting people. They may acknowledge that it is very possible for an unexceptional woman to go unnoticed by her immediate peers, they're assuming she'e putting herself in front of a userbase of thousands of thirsty dudes who aren't her peers.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/24 07:59 PM
21

I think men on this sub underestimate how many women go out of their way to make it so that random men can't find them on the internet. The majority of women I know make their accounts private and 90% of the engagement they get is other women. Data consistently shows that women are more likely to make social media accounts private than men. If you think that women are constantly seeking attention from strange men you are likely basing that belief on influencers and other women you don't actually…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/24 03:21 PM
31

It's funny because I've seen quite a bit of discourse on this sub about women expecting men to "read minds." So this woman made it extremely easy, said exactly what she wanted...and he still didn't do that. I don't think that's an attentiveness issue. Attentive would be noticing from years of being together that your girlfriend loves the beach more than the air we breathe and proposing to her there because of it. This is a case of choosing whether to honor your partner's explicitly stated wishes…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/24 07:27 PM
1

Since adolescene I've never really felt a strong desire for opposite sex platonic friendships. I think having an older brother I'm already very close with may have contributed. My BF does have quite a few platonic female friends though. He's a sweetheart and will gladly be friends with pretty much anyone who isn't deterred by his initial shyness. To him the benefit would simply be having a new friend, he doesn't need much else.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/24 06:39 PM
12

I like to give the benefit of the doubt and seek clarity on OP's stance. So now that I'm satisfied that you really are adopting such a dubious stance, I'm going to emphatically stand by everything I said in the latter part of my comment.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/24 04:39 PM
23

Wait are you asking PPD to sell you on dating a particular type of woman or trying to debate what's best for men in general? Because if you're going for the latter, your OP is easily debunked by the fact that not all men want the things you take for granted as good and desirable in a partner. I like Christian men with a mix of progressive and conservative values. It just makes sense to me. I'm not about to argue that all women would be better off dating a guy who fits what I like. Edited for cla…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/24 04:34 PM

Are you thinking of a user whose name started with A?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/24 05:51 AM

Pretty sure you're one of the people who thought I sounded like AI last time lol. Granted, even I think I sound a lot more relaxed here. I think the prompts helped. And also not being as nervous.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/24 05:49 AM
5

There were RP dudes on this sub calling AOC hot and saying they wanted to have rough anal sex with her. Like come on, she's easily mogged by your typical Fox News bunny. There's a reason they fixate on her.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/24 05:17 AM
1

Reposting here since post flair changed I vividly remember the discourse surrounding AOC on this sub around the time she became relevant. There was some strong evidence in favor of the claims made by OP. I think some men definitely get off to the idea of fucking women who challenge/disagree with them in some way. It's not even limited to conservative men with liberal women. As a woman with a more trad lifestyle I have definitely gotten some pretty inexplicable interest from more liberal men.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/24 04:53 AM
6

I prefer men with no previous sex life
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/24 04:07 AM

My initial plan was to do the animal one but when I saw the anime prompt I knew I couldn't skip that lol
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/24 02:30 AM

https://voca.ro/12fk3exxTg10 Done!
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/24 02:25 AM

Mizzuruh
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/24 02:10 AM
6

Lmfaoo seems that way
/r/PurplePillDebate29/11/24 04:00 PM

Good to see you as well Sarai! Happy turkey day 🦃
/r/PurplePillDebate29/11/24 02:47 AM

Haha. I'm Ange. Using an old alt that I generally kept separate from PPD. The new PPD only account I tried to make glitched out and isn't usable anymore.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/11/24 02:42 AM

To me, domination is an act of love. Freeing your partner from the pressures and anxieties of control. I am very happy to show my partner that kind of love, as well as to receive it.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/11/24 01:50 AM
30

I don't even think I could move on if he died, much less if he's very much alive
/r/PurplePillDebate29/11/24 01:40 AM
7

I could definitely see that happening. But I'll leave the ball in his court to respond like an adult.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/11/24 12:53 AM
11

Trying to give OP the benefit of the doubt here, we'll see if he gets back to me. Funnily enough I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of giving up social media for my partner. But it would have to be an equal and shared sacrifice, not some blatantly hypocritical bullshit.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/11/24 12:41 AM
25

Clarification: Is he holding himself to this standard as well and deleting all of his social media apps?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/11/24 12:21 AM
6

Not common at all. I find that guys from wealthy backgrounds are often very pragmatic when choosing a serious partner. How can she benefit his aspirations? Who is she connected to? At my undergrad it was pretty much understood that girls with the most prominent family names were the ones being taken seriously by guys on that level, the rest were setting themselves up for heartbreak with maybe a few exceptions. Edit: Something else I've noticed is that, particularly when looking at the wives of f…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/11/24 11:55 PM
2

Do you think normal people get married within months of meeting each other? To be married or about to be by mid 20s typically you met your SO by your early 20s.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/11/24 06:04 PM
4

Dating isn't a recreational activity for me. I wouldn't flirt with a dude I didn't see as husband material.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/11/24 03:29 PM
7

That number presumably includes women who do not want marriage, families, and/or long term relationships and are therefore not on the market. I am specifically talking about women men are going on dates with, the ones who are explicitly seeking those things but haven't gotten them yet for some reason.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/11/24 09:06 AM
61

A lot of questions about dating are answered once you realize that a lot of people still on the market are there for a reason. Yes, unrealistic standards can be one of them. Women who don't have that problem very much exist but are, you know, taken. As a 26yo most of the women I interact with on a regular basis are married or on the verge of it.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/11/24 05:45 AM
8

Does that sound like rational behavior to you? If not, don't try to find reason in the clear absence of it.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/11/24 05:42 AM
6

I really don't think the categories are as neat and clear-cut as some make it out to be. I'm waiting for marriage, but do know women who have had casual sex, particularly from college. Dudes could actually get hookup-zoned by not meeting their looks standards but having really good WOM in terms of bedroom skills. Or assets that might not be readily apparent with clothes on. The idea that mega hot guys are the only ones getting hookups while the ugly betas get relationships isn't accurate.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/11/24 12:55 AM
6

There were dudes talking about their 99th percentile dicks in another thread, let's not draw the line at a woman flexing her cooking skills
/r/PurplePillDebate27/11/24 06:48 PM
10

Good faith question would've been simply asking, from the start, "what do you mean by that? Are you saying that women who are D cup or larger should have no regard for modesty since it's all the same anyway?" And I would've responded that clearly, I don't believe that, hence dressing modestly despite having larger breasts. I can do my best, but at the end of the day my clothing choices do not automatically prevent men from seeing me in a sexualized way. Oh what could've been. But you were too bu…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/11/24 05:32 PM

Real life. it is a very specifc type of agreeable, bubbly autistic woman who gets along well with and gets romantic interest from men. Many autistic women adopt that persona specifically because they get better treatment with it compared to their factory default. Now you might say "but why should I take your observations into account? Yeah why should you. Take it or leave it.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/11/24 05:21 PM
7

No, as a woman who already conveyed that I dress modestly I am not entertaining a question linking to an extremely revealing and gaudy outfit. If you have an actual question to clarify my stance in good faith, go ahead and ask that.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/11/24 05:10 PM
5

Do you think I would wear that to church?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/11/24 04:51 PM

Autistic women are also more likely to date other women than autistic men are to date other men. Ime the kinds of autistic women whose dating life isn't affected by it in any way tend to be conventionally attractive and obviously masking. The ones who don't are either dating women or autistic men.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/11/24 04:42 PM

Lol men make make fun of chicks who probably have some degree of autism going on all the time, they'll see themselves as rejecting a weird, annoying, disagreeable woman rather than a woman with autism
/r/PurplePillDebate27/11/24 04:32 PM

My BF was in that spot for most of his life lol. I wouldn't call it a "bad personality" though. He was lacking certain traits/mannerisms women in his vicinity look for in a romantic partner. Basically here it can be summed up as country bro vibes.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/11/24 04:21 PM
4

I'm not usually in the business of giving advice on this sub. I was simply describing what I would do. I fail to see where the problem is. You don't care. "Uncomfortable atmosphere" will usually pass with time. "I'm not interested, take care though" is perfectly sufficient imo.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/11/24 04:15 PM

All questions lead back to one answer
/r/PurplePillDebate27/11/24 04:09 PM

By this logic male slaves didn't have any honor either?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/11/24 04:07 PM
2

If I interact with a guy I'm neutral toward that much I will absolutely catch feelings
/r/PurplePillDebate27/11/24 04:03 PM
6

I don't even get why women are going. The entire concept sounds forced and awkward as hell to me. Maybe that's what men think.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/11/24 03:57 PM
4

No I can't imagine interacting with someone I'm repulsed by for "attention"
/r/PurplePillDebate27/11/24 03:56 PM
11

Women’s clothing choices often signal the type of attention they expect, whether amplifying or minimizing their breasts. Part of that is accepting that clothing is the first message we send about how we want to be treated or what we want to say. I always dress modestly due to religious beliefs. I wear a high tank top to cover cleavage if a piece of clothing I otherwise like shows any. This isn't hiding the fact that I have fairly large breasts from anyone. I always read statements like the above…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/11/24 03:54 PM
14

I try to give benefit of the doubt but OP seems too busy engaging with users who aren't challenging him to answer
/r/PurplePillDebate27/11/24 01:45 AM
24

OP, what makes you select the particular women you single out to "give support to" in these groups
/r/PurplePillDebate26/11/24 11:56 PM
5

An inexperienced person preferring other inexperienced people due to common values? I find that to be a very cold take here.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/11/24 10:50 PM
6

Is this a shocking revelation?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/11/24 10:23 PM
6

Iirc swipe right for yes, swipe left for no, same for dudes right?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/11/24 09:31 PM
12

I've only used dating apps briefly as I quickly felt like the kind of guy I was looking for wasn't really using that sort of thing. When I swiped left on a guy it was usually a result of failing one of the following criteria: Christian No drug references anywhere in their profile 100% definitely looking for a relationship, not "maybe open to casual blah blah" bullshit Indications that we had hobbies/interests in common
/r/PurplePillDebate26/11/24 09:21 PM
53

Notice how Wife didn't even get a name lmfao
/r/PurplePillDebate26/11/24 08:13 PM
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