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the_wandering_mind Archive

View 1 post and 157 comments by the_wandering_mind on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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1

You've said in some replies that you can orgasm from masturbation and that you enjoy at least some porn. That tells me that the problem is not physical (otherwise masturbation would not help), and is not a lack of interest in sexual subjects in general. So the problem is really how to get you to associate your own sexual arousal and climax with the presence and involvement of other people. My first question would be: What are your favourite things to fantasize about (and/or watch porn of) when y…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/16 04:50 PM
1

No. But not because of the girl. Because of me. See, making assumptions about the capabilities of the girl ("No, she'd be too immature.") would be ageist. I don't know what this hypothetical girl would be like. Statistics don't matter, because I'd have to make the decision based on the individual, and individuals can be exceptional. Denying that is exactly what is meant by "prejudice". What I am sure of is that any adult in that situation would have to be ready to handle all of the complexities …
/r/PurplePillDebate01/02/16 04:47 PM
0

It appears we aren't really arguing at all. I just should have made it more explicit from the beginning that when I talk about "TRP" saying stuff like: So we'll assert that AWALT, and when people call us on it we'll say it's a 'heuristic'. ...I'm giving voice to TRP the evolving, adaptive idea system. I'm not saying some person came to that decision (although somebody may have). I'm saying that TRP as an idea system self-optimized to adopt that stance because it did something helpful for itself.…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/02/16 04:34 PM
-2

And I don't care how you feel about it or the rest of the idiots who take is as gospel. You are all wrong. Yeah, pretty much. You care about being an I-was-here-from-the-beginning insider, and you enjoy the sense of superiority that comes from looking down on the "idiots" who have fallen for the captivating trap you believe you're in control of, and outside of. Thing is, you're captured by TRP as well. TRP has to convince you to dehumanize the bulk of the disposable men that it feeds off of, bec…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/02/16 04:21 PM
1

If AWALT was formulated as: Ok, guys...when you're building up your internal mindset to allow yourself to project confidence and superiority, it can help to temporarily bring in some ideas that suppress doubts and simplify decisions. One example is AWALT. This is a non-rational imaginative exercise in self-hypnosis to achieve a particular state of mind helpful for your practical purposes. Well, then there would be no problem. But that's not how it is formulated and presented. This is what I mean…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/02/16 03:25 PM
-2

just to help you out cause you look like a person who would struggle with something like this LAWL concern trolling... I've been around since the beginning, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Nah, I'm just way ahead of you. I don't have your need to protect TRP from valid criticism, and I certainly don't have your need to maintain a personal narrative of control and mastery. See, I really have no trouble believing that some group of self-proclaimed TRP leaders came up with thin…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/02/16 03:09 PM
1

Yes. That was, actually, my point to Xemnas. Can't criticize TBP on a charge of wanting to blame men for their own problems, when TRP actively pleads guilty. Maybe it all makes sense now.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/02/16 02:34 AM
1

To Adams' Trump piece? It's right there in my comment. Here it is again, though.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/02/16 02:25 AM
2

If you're being sincere then it's adorable that you think that is all that it is, while simultaneously horrifying that you haven't bothered to tumble to the other implications yourself. Who told you that AWALT was nothing more than a harmless trolling tool, by the way? Oh...riiiiiight.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/02/16 02:23 AM
1

So, we have determined that: Assholes exist in TBP in enough numbers to have been hurtful to you. TBP ends up bringing more attention to TRP than it might have otherwise received, and thus is not being terribly strategic. I don't dispute either of these determinations. I've never disputed the existence of jerks, and I agree that there is a lack of strategy. I didn't think that your beef with TBP was over strategy, though, so I'm surprised you brought it up. I'm tempted to conclude that you're re…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/02/16 12:29 AM
1

I think you'd find many, many people on TBP willing to absolutely, completely blame TRP for leading men into such dark, limited patterns of thinking, feeling, and acting. Really? Are you sure? You know the last person to argue that on BP got accused of being a sock puppet right? The OP is not suggesting TRP is to blame; OP is suggesting bitchy women are to blame. I'm not really sure how you read that as refuting my point. In any case, it doesn't matter. I don't really have any interest in defend…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/16 10:22 PM
19

To your main question I'd say: Kind of in general, definitely with regards to the harmful member-herding stuff. TRP does contain some truly rational advice, so it is not entirely arational. The problem is that TRP is not explicit about its arationality with its members; it sells itself as hard facts, all the time, and does not encourage its members to explore other options that might work better for them. TRP can't admit to other options, and can't admit to being arational, when part of its crit…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/16 09:36 PM
2

No, I think you did. I don't blame you...the first sentence is difficult to parse. I'll rewrite it for you: But bluepill doesn't want men who suck or have a hard time to blame their failures on TRP, it wants them to blame their failures on themselves (the individual men). See now?
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/16 08:15 PM
1

So here they are to learn better. Out of curiosity...has TRP ever been wrong about something it has taught men, and admitted it?
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/16 08:13 PM
2

No doubt BP posters (and anyone, really) could respond more thoughtfully and sympathetically to the human pain behind otherwise-repugnant TRP posts and comments. Goodness knows I've encouraged that kind of response. But it's not TRP that bluepill wants men who suck or have a hard time to blame their failures on. It's themselves (the individual men). Ummm...actually, that's exactly what TRP wants to do. Don't listen to me, though...listen to /u/MorpheusGodOfDreams over here: this is incorrect. TR…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/16 08:08 PM
5

this is incorrect. TRP understands that women use the resources available to them, and blames men for being ignorant of existing sexual dynamics. You can't blame biology, you can only accept it. Yes, yes, I know...you are very cutely oblivious to the massively negative framing that TRP puts around its claimed "reality" of female biology, and thus have -- oh golly! -- no idea how TRP could possibly be encouraging men to project their negative experiences on women. Similarly, since TRP is just a p…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/16 07:56 PM
1

Tip: Try asking "Why does TRP think..." instead of "Why do men...". By using the latter formulation you are pre-validating the TRP idea that "men" and "women" are necessarily separate and at odds on issues like this.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/16 07:41 PM
2

If you were looking to provide an example of exactly what I was talking about, congratulations. If you weren't, then you might want to take the time to consider whose motivations you're questioning before you decide to commit this kind of logical fallacy. It would be a fallacy regardless, but it's really not convincing when you pick the wrong target...
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/16 03:26 PM
1

Scott Adams, creator of Dilbert and also a hypnotist, has written about the persuasion techniques used by Trump. Since TRP uses similar techniques to inject self-reinforcing thought patterns into its followers, it is not surprising to me that someone who fell victim to TRP's tactics would also fall victim to Trump's. As for society in general? People, as a group, have always responded to propaganda. This is not new. The propaganda techniques simply change over time as the populace becomes wise t…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/16 02:49 PM
19

TRP contains many truths. That isn't under serious debate. The serious debate is around what else TRP contains. My argument goes like this: TRP deserves credit for giving young men some good advice on how to enhance their attractiveness, and for motivating them to follow that advice. The advice is not so original, but the framing around the advice definitely is, and TRP should get credit for that. The problem is that TRP does not stop there. TRP uses the credibility it has built with these young…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/16 02:40 PM
1

In my experience, people often ignore advice until it comes from a source and/or with a framing that manages to punch through their base level of skepticism/laziness. Then they accept advice they've been told over and over again (not even noticing that it's the same advice as before), because the source and/or framing push the right buttons. I have actually given a lot of credit to TRP for giving young men good advice and motivating them to get off of their asses rather than just sit around and …
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/16 03:32 PM
1

What do I sacrifice? Will I never be loved, validated or respected, and continue to walk alone? Or will I be cursed to hear the voices of those I have wronged? These are not their voices. They're yours. Your mind is externalizing the negative feelings, injecting them into facades of exterior sources, as a defense mechanism in the turmoil. It allows them to at least have a "terminus", in a sense. If they came from you, you'd just have another reason to be mad at yourself for "saying" such hurtful…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/16 08:38 PM
1

I am supposed to deny my pain at the unfairness in order to be politically correct rather than even have the option of coming to terms with a semi-scientific explanation which would in fact make what now seems 'unfair', fair. No. The problem here is not pain. The problem is suffering. And, as you've probably heard: Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Suffering occurs when you can't make peace with something. When you can't find a way to understand it and accept it. Now, I don't mean "make…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/16 07:30 PM
1

No, was typing. Will read. ...and flattery gets my knees all weak.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/16 07:11 PM
1

Yes, yes, I know...I'm a gift to the world. The important thing about making a list like the PBT example above is that it enables meta-cognition. You're laying out the fundamental parts of the thinking/feeling patterns you have around this subject so you can then think/feel about the pattern, as a pattern. T4, for example...is it necessary to question your worth because of your current inability to hook-up as much as you think "other guys" do? Is it helping the situation? Well, no. If anything, …
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/16 07:02 PM
1

Right. You're not getting the amount of sex you expect you should be able to get (I'm being general here, I appreciate that the current amount might be "none"), you observe that it appears to be possible for others to get more than that, and that women, in particular, appear to be able to get as much as they want. That leaves you feeling a whole bunch of negative things, some of them directed towards these women in general, who don't seem to have to struggle like you do to get the sex they want.…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/16 05:52 PM
2

Ah. Makes some sense. Rest assured that I would never think you wanted to be a good person, and that those parts of my comment were thus not directed at you.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/16 02:43 PM
2

Yay HS reference! I'm having trouble figuring out why you'd hate that comment in particular. Seriously, I am. I'm not even mad, just confused. What did I say that was so hate-fuelling? I'm not seeing it.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/16 01:26 PM
1

Ok, but ten seconds in what time frame? Maybe that's where I'm going wrong. I'm probably using a negative-flow time frame and ending up turning it back on before I turned it off. Welp, we've all been there, right?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/16 01:19 PM
1

...are you coming on to me?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/16 06:12 PM
1

Sounds like she may have been a jerk, and you responded to her jerkishness reasonably. Yes, there are female jerks, and, just like male jerks, they sometimes don't respond until confronted. What does any of that have to do with TRP?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/16 05:46 PM
2

I've been procrastinating for too long today You and me both, man. No problem.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/16 05:30 PM
3

Then read the papers and show me where she's wrong. If you do, I'll happily consider your point of view, though I may continue to disagree with you. If you don't, then you have to admit that you're engaging in convenient assumptions.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/16 05:25 PM
2

Oh, I have no illusions about the likelihood of convincing TRP. I only get listened to by TRP peeps when I'm sympathizing with them. They're happy to ignore me when I ask tougher questions. By the way, isn't it a fallacy to ignore evidence because of the source? Do you engage in logical fallacies often?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/16 05:21 PM
2

Did you read the link I sent you? I didn't read the link, because my brain interpreted it in context (only the "AF/BB" text being the link, as opposed to a word like "support" or "evidence" being part of the link) as likely to be a link to a definition, rather than to evidence. That was my bad, though. AF/BB is a well supported behaviour. AF/BB is an amorphous collection of ideas for which there is no consistent definition. This is handy to TRP, of course, because it prevents it from ever being …
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/16 04:54 PM
1

I agree that consent is currently a very tricky issue. I also agree that the current attitudes around consent are dangerously close to essentially saying, "If a woman regrets having sex after the fact, then the man may not have obtained consent beforehand." For example, person A and person B both get pretty drunk. They have sex. There is no claim by either person that, before and/or during sex, they gave any indication that they did not consent to the sex. Person B regrets it afterwards. Did any…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/16 02:11 AM
2

The problem with TRP's conception of it is that it's not a universal strategy. A certain proportion of women exhibit the physiological imperative, a certain proportion don't. Which is to say: The TRP conception is not actually supported by evidence. We agree. A fair number of TRP's claims are supported by evidence, they just become exaggerated and dogmatic within the subreddit. They are "supported" in exactly the same way that the AF/BB claim is "supported": Not supported at all. They take a sup…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/16 01:28 AM
4

...aaaand who, exactly, outside of the TRP community would think what you did was wrong? 'Cuz I don't. TRP promotes this really victim-y mindset that assumes that everyone else is just totally against what they advocate and would persecute them for doing it. Much of the time, the problem is that TRP goes to great lengths to throw in unnecessarily controversial reasons for simple advice. If they left off the reasons (you have to do this because AWALT, for example), it wouldn't be a big deal. So, …
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/16 11:07 PM
7

Trying to debate with people who have no desire to have a real debate is draining. Yeah, pretty much. Sigh.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/16 10:48 PM
2

Ok, they're not equal. Now how, exactly, are they different? Oh, wait...just because they're not equal doesn't mean that any particular claim of difference is supportable. None of the general TRP claims about women are supported on the evidence, and specific claims need specific evidence. The obvious existence of some differences provides no support for any specific claim.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/16 10:30 PM
4

No, it's because TRP continues to assert these generalizations despite not having proven them in the slightest. You don't actually get to claim them as true and require others disprove them! You get to accept that until they are proven, you have to admit they're your personal pet theories, and nothing more. And, no, waving your hands and yelling "EVOLUTIONARY PSYCHOLOGY" is not proof. Neither is cherry-picking a legitimate study here and there that supports some claim, and ignoring all the ones …
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/16 10:24 PM
8

Eh, I'd say my least-fav is the "How does TBP explain <some anecdote involving some asshole who happens to be female>". No see...it's TRP that says all women are one way. Everyone else (barring the few radicals on the other side on whom TRP obsesses) is totally cool with all women being different, and that includes some of them being assholes! So, yeah, there's your explanation.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/16 10:20 PM
3

not a sign that she wants the D Wait...that Starbucks barista doesn't really yearn for my D? EVERYTHING IS RUINED
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/16 10:15 PM
8

There are a few things tangled up in this: How you had to take on a certain internal attitude (that "view" of yourself) in order to present a certain external attitude. How your awareness of that internal attitude influences your interpretation of positive reactions to the external attitude. How your awareness of that internal attitude interacts with your interpretation of what you were "raised" to do. How the need for that internal attitude, and how you end up feeling about that internal attitu…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/16 09:59 PM
1

I really don't care how the rest of the world feels about my views. Then don't post them for others to consider. We're not arguing about what various factors you might personally use inside your head to make your personal decisions. You're welcome to have whatever you want in that regard, just like everyone does. You got burned by a woman who was an asshat to you, and now it is personally important to you that that does not happen again. You find it some combination of comforting/useful, as a me…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/16 09:13 PM
2

No. You chose to advocate for an unsupported negative generalization about half the population. That is an unethical thing to do. It is unethical regardless of what other generalizations you might hold, or any I might hold. Putting forward an unsupported negative generalization about some other group is unethical, no matter who does it, no matter what else they do, and no matter what anyone else does. Your mistake is that you are personalizing the situation rather than looking at the act on its …
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/16 08:45 PM
6

This just in: Being interesting instead of predictable gets you attention, and intentionally projecting confidence and capability causes others to see you as confident and capable. Now, in a related story: TRP CONFIRMED! So, now for a real question: Why do you credit TRP for this result? Why do you assume that anyone outside of TRP wouldn't expect exactly the same result? I get that TRP may have been the first place you got this idea, but why did you stop looking there?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/16 08:29 PM
3

I...I am? Shit! OH GOD IT'S HAPPENING AGAIN!
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/16 08:17 PM
1

No, I don't assume that at all. Why would that matter?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/16 08:13 PM
7

My major beef with TRP is that it does exactly the opposite: It takes micro-level (as you put it) anecdotes of female asshattery (which happens, of course), then runs through the classic pseudoscience playbook to gin up macro-level (as you put it) theories explaining how all women are just waiting to be an asshat to men if they're given a chance. My wife HAS THE CAPABILITY of being a slut/whore/manipulative bitch, but I don't judge her based on that latent trait. Its how she present herself to m…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/16 08:02 PM
11

Hmmm...wow. There is a lot wrapped up in that consent discussion. A lot. The OP, I think, did a good job of setting up the background for the problem (how fear of conflict makes it tricky to give a "hard" no, and fear of slut-shaming makes it tricky to give a hard "yes"), and prompting both sexes on how things could get better. I have to say, u/Xemnas81, that your response was pretty one-sided and dropped many of the important subtleties of the situation. I mean, I can tell you're really frustra…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/16 06:38 PM
2

Thanks! My goal, in all aspects of my life, is to do things in such a manner as to deserve the modifier "insanely". For example, this morning I pooped insanely well. Yeah...totally lost my shit. (grimaces apologetically)
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/16 06:01 PM
8

Sigh. She's saying "fuck who you want to fuck when you're young". She doesn't explicitly bring up the fuckable nice guys because her audience doesn't need to be told to fuck the fuckable nice guys. They were already going to do that. But because they're reading her book, they might think that smart, strong, business-minded women don't do dumb things like fuck bad boys. Ms Sandberg wants to let them know that she disagrees; she thinks her audience should fuck the people they want to fuck. She men…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/16 11:39 PM
5

Wait, wait....wait. No, seriously, I have to wrap my head around this. So...so you're saying...you're saying that when people enter into a short-term relationship, they put more emphasis on what is going to matter in the short term and don't pay much attention to things that would only matter in the long term? Holy. Flaming. Fuck. OMG...ooooooomg. Omg. Oh. Mah. Gawd. AND...and when they enter into a long-term relationship, they also factor in the things that would matter in the long term, and so…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/16 11:27 PM
7

I don't get the impression that Ms Sandberg feels her audience needs her advice on who should be considered sexy enough to fuck (here I'm dispensing with the "date" euphemism). She's not telling them to find bad boys sexy...she's acknowledging that many of them probably will at some point (quelle horreur!), and noting that the particular things that make a "bad boy" sexy also make him a bad life-partner. The same is just as true if you reverse the sexes ("bad girls" are sexy to many men, but the…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/16 11:21 PM
-1

One of the biggest problems I have with this sub is detecting when people are being serious.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/16 09:34 PM
0

As is common in human discourse, she lists the options that might be unexpected, and thus require communication. She leaves out the options that are obvious to save everyone's time. It would be pedantic to add in: Oh, and you should also date the guys who get you all damp and squirmy and are amazing people. She lists exactly the ones that her audience (smart, rational young women) might think they shouldn't ever consider dating, because that's the new information to be communicated. She doesn't …
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/16 09:24 PM
2

Well, I think most readers have missed the fact that she isn't saying that women shouldn't date men who respect them and view them as equals. She's saying women should experiment with different kinds of guys when experimentation makes sense, and do that on the basis of who they are attracted to. She's saying that young women should think it's ok to have a fling with a sexy dude who might not be marriage material. I'm sure she'd agree that it would be even more ok it to have a fling with a dude w…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/16 09:12 PM
4

The only thing worth discussing here is how this kind of advice ever came to be controversial at all. She's describing the arc of life, and how in nearly every way it favours experimentation/exploration when one is young and has not much to lose, then shifts towards stability as one gets older and has built up parts of one's life that require it. One can easily reword this to apply to men, or to apply to advice selecting an employer, for that matter. But OH NOES AFBB IS REAL!!!
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/16 09:00 PM
1

Thanks! Glad to be of help. Haven't had a lot of time to post since.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/15 05:03 PM
1

Unfortunately for many, this makes me literally Hitler Actually, it makes you Dan Savage. Not bad company to be in, in my books, but probably a decent modern Hitler for others.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/11/15 04:35 AM
1

Hm. Hmmm. Hmmmmmm. I'm gonna go with...no. No, not triggered. Wait, let me check again! Hm. Hmmm. Hmmmmm. Nah, still good.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/11/15 12:50 AM
2

Yes, of course I do. What I was saying is: I think there are important enough differences between the subject at hand and your chosen analogy that the analogy isn't going to be helpful. Whatever we concluded about the analogical situation, there would be too many reasons why those conclusions would not apply to the actual subject. The retro-killing Hitler situation is very absolute (one murder vs. deaths of millions), but in the cheating situation nearly everything is relative (as you pointed ou…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 11:44 PM
2

Wow...that was a very fast leap from cheating on a spouse to retro-killing Hitler. I'm not sure we could apply any part of our reasoning from the former to the latter. This cheating thing is always going to be murky. /u/EmpressofMars is against cheating in all circumstances, and I agree that it's a consistent, reasonable position. I think she has an even better case than she had when we left it off, given the option I was ignoring for P to tell Q to assume P is going to seek satisfaction outside…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 11:01 PM
2

Stop it! You'll scare the flag.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 10:52 PM
2

accidentally farts loudly into the solemn, flag-flapping-punctuated silence
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 10:50 PM
2

To clarify, are you saying justified to mean that they are off the hook (like self defense is justified murder) or are you using justified to mean some people may think "oh well they did have a good reason"? I'm not sure the distinction you're making here. There is no absolute standard for any of this, so there is no objective "off the hook". I'd say the standard is, roughly: A reasonable person could conclude that the cheater had a consistent, ethical basis on which to decide that cheating was …
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 10:37 PM
2

sniffs and wipes away single tear
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 10:30 PM
0

Ok, that is a genuinely creepy way to respond. Look, I really can't take you seriously in your turnabout here when you use labels like "leftoids" in your posts. I mean, I guess we could all be heads in jars and who knows what's right and wrong in this crazy world, but I think it's possible for people to use reasonable definitions with each other and come to reasonable conclusions. Did I pick a definition of "progress" that is incompatible with masculinity? No. No, I didn't. I'm perfectly happy i…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 10:12 PM
1

Won't argue with you there, but that tension is hardly unique to sex. Looks, parenting strategy, cleanliness, emotional availability...person A could be completely happy with their spouse's performance in any of these areas, where person B would find the same situation completely unsatisfying. So, yeah, in all areas of a marriage there's going to be a tension between what you'd really like vs. what the other person can provide, and that tension goes both ways. One person's deal-breaking point is…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 10:03 PM
2

Now you're making me blush. I forgot to note that there's part of your current strategy that can be helpful in delivering the surprise associated with the kind of reaction I was describing. Don't throw away your basic presentation of friendly, kind, and non-threatening. Just add in some surprises that open up whole other impressive pictures in the minds of your audience in a positive way. For example: I can juggle three balls. It's a neat trick that is not actually hard for anyone with reasonabl…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 06:26 PM
2

Stop thinking of it in terms of things like "fail" and "fault". They're not helpful, because they make it hard to keep a perspective on the reality that everyone is struggling. Your gf is struggling with her own versions of this stuff, so she misses a few things about you. You're struggling, so you miss some things about her. All anyone can do is just put one foot in front of the other, and being unforgiving of yourself and/or others, it turns out, does not actually help you to find your path or…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 05:34 PM
2

Exactly. Even more frustrating is that people like me for putting my whole self out there. My goofy vids are really funny and my friends love them. (At least I have that impression and see no reason to doubt it). But that makes it even more frustrating. I understand that things that make me likable make me unattractive at the same time. I don't think it is quite that simple. I can't speak for the woman in question...maybe she's just shallow. My best guess is that your guitar video did a really g…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 04:10 PM
2

I'm more of a body-weight martial arts/gymnastics kind of guy, but I'd totally let your routine destroy me for a few sessions.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 03:48 PM
3

Hm. I'm being reminded of possible solutions that I'd left out. What is being suggested here is that P could say to Q, "Look, I love you and I want us to stay together. I don't resent or blame you for the loss of the sexual part of our relationship, I just need to have the sexual part of my life. I won't cheat on you, so I'm going to tell you right now what your choices are. You can either accept that I'm going to discreetly and cautiously seek sexual partners outside of our relationship, or you…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 03:17 PM
2

We agree on nearly everything here, so I'm going to call this one done. I appreciate the stance you're taking and I agree that the reasoning behind it is consistent and fair.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 03:11 PM
4

Ok, great. That really fills in the picture. That experience feels unfair, because it seems like you're getting penalized for putting your whole self out there, and isn't that supposed to be the right thing to do? And there are these goofy parts of you that you value, and that you think are worthy of external value, and then you find out the opposite when you show them. What does that mean about the true value of those parts of you? Meanwhile, it seems like other dudes "get" to show their goofy …
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 02:55 PM
3

Thought about this some more. One thing is certain about that guy: Nobody can look like that without a large dose of frivolity or silliness. He's not wearing those PJs and drinking that cocoa seriously. There is no gravitas involved. Part of what I'm hearing for you is that you're looking at that and seeing something that you don't "get" to experience. You don't feel like you get to be silly or frivolous. You feel like your life is serious business on which you constantly have to work in order t…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 02:09 PM
1

If you haven't already, you should probably look up what Dan Savage has to say on this matter. I don't fully agree with his point of view (I think he's understating the additional risks of extra-marital fucking for heterosexuals vs. The Gays), but he makes some good points. The strongest points are those that ask the question: Who the hell is any one of us to look at two loving, married people who support and care for each other for years, and say that they have a lesser marriage because they al…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 03:31 AM
3

If /u/EmpressofMars and I should get a room for this little exchange, I'm now worried what /u/GuitarsAreGettingOld and I should be doing...
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 03:28 AM
1

The only issue here is that we're assuming Q will feel awful at the prospect of P having sex with someone else - as an automatic response. You're absolutely right...that's a reasonable option, and I left it off of my list. My bad. Q could absolutely come around to deciding that the two of them can have a great marriage together even if P is fucking other people. Q could see it positively as something Q is providing to P, even if Q can't directly provide the sexual satisfaction. That is, in fact,…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 03:26 AM
2

I think the sort of thing you are describing, if it were persistent and not just occasional, would shift things towards the right decision being divorce. If the personal relationship is getting toxic, then it's not worth staying together. I constructed my example so that P and Q love each other and are very happy with each other everywhere other than the bedroom. Q can't satisfy P, but not because Q doesn't want to. That's the thing about sex though...sometimes, it just isn't happening. As I sai…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 02:21 AM
3

If Q doesn't want a divorce, but is unwilling or unable to provide P with the happiness and release they need, P has an obligation to their own happiness to break up. ...what if that would not be the path of greatest happiness for them? You can't justify the decision on these grounds. P genuinely loves Q. The only problem is sexual satisfaction. P would be very unhappy putting Q, the kids, and most of all P through a divorce. P's contract with the children is to love them and provide for them as…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/15 12:18 AM
2

So rather than breach one portion of the contract, P should break up the whole thing? What if Q is very, very clear that Q does not want a divorce? Q has pleaded for P to not divorce Q. What if P knows that P's children also absolutely do not want that? What is P's contract with the children? P has an option that could preserve the entirety of P's contract with the kids, and also preserve all of the contract with Q besides the part that Q has failed to live up to. Doesn't that amount to the leas…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/11/15 11:44 PM
2

Should P find sexual partners outside the relationship without Q's consent? In my view, no. Even though Q has unintentionally breached sexual contract, that isn't an excuse for P to ALSO break the contract. Two wrongs don't make a right, etc. etc. I appreciate your points, and I agree it is very tricky. Let's say that the medical and psychological directions were explored, and either no solution was found or Q simply decided that Q was unwilling/unable to pursue further treatment. I personally t…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/11/15 11:30 PM
6

I think most instances of cheating out there are the result of simple selfishness; the cheater is unwilling to put the work in to discuss their dissatisfaction openly, so they take the easy way out. I'm sure there are also cases that involve even worse motivations. But just like sex between an older man and a younger woman, you can't say it's always "wrong". To see the subtlety here, you have to consider that there could be things besides cheating that amount to a breach of the implied sexual co…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/11/15 11:06 PM
3

What irks me is that he wouldn't have to put effort in. I had to think of the thread I submitted recently. It was about "doing things just for fun". Because there are a lot of people, me included, who don't seem to do things just for fun. Their idea of fun is "putting work into something and getting better at it". Oh, I know exactly what you're talking about. This is a gigantic pile of existential angst right here. There are always going to be people out there who appear to effortlessly do thing…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/11/15 09:13 PM
6

Now, some leftoids hate men, some don't, we all know that. That's not the issue. The issue is that leftoids do not understand masculinity. I really have to point out the circular reasoning here. If you pick a definition of "masculinity" that is incompatible with things valued by progressives, then naturally one will come to the conclusion that they don't understand it. That conclusion then supports your claim that since no real man could possibly identify with the dude in the image, that the pro…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/11/15 07:28 PM
1

Rent bugs the shit out of me with the way it romanticizes idle, self-absorbed, superficial pretentions to artistry (which doesn't help the real, hard-working artists out there) and impulsive, selfish behaviour generally...but, hell..."Seasons Of Love" is a killer song to belt out!
/r/PurplePillDebate17/11/15 07:18 PM
3

No, any more than I'd suggest that a conservative should aspire to be more like a "big-city liberal", or a progressive should aspire to be more like an "ignorant hick". It's going to sound cheesy, but in the end I'm suggesting that they could aspire to be more forgiving of themselves for being limited, fallible human beings. When one's self-image is not dependent on always being objectively right, or objectively the best, one becomes more open to considering other ideas, perspectives, and strate…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/11/15 07:04 PM
2

I don't think it's that simple. It's true that this happens, for sure; people observe traits in others that they regret having displayed previously, and they want to push those people away because they want to push their previous selves away. That sort of thing is usually accompanied by more identification and understanding of exactly what is wrong, though, like: "That guy is such an idiot...he's going to get all gooey over that girl and then get kicked in the nuts." Or, whatever. I'm not hearin…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/11/15 06:39 PM
8

I often have the impression that good parents instinctively learn intentionally do their best not to influence their children with language and facial expressions in situations where they want to find out what the child really wants. Yeah, but kids learn their parents from the time they are born. They'll just learn the more subtle cues of the poker face. Just noticing the poker face at all (which they will learn to do) will set off "something's going on..." bells, and then they'll be extra obser…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/11/15 04:57 PM
3

Hey Minds! Good to have you here. An expert opinion. Oh, I remain strictly amateur. Thanks, tho! Conjuring up this picture repulses me because the idea that you could generate attention and interest with this look and shtick goes against everything I want to believe. I'd hate that it was a) this easy and b) that women could be attracted to the shtick. Right. Feeling repulsed that he could get pussy is connected to all the other negative feelings about him generated by all the negative scenarios …
/r/PurplePillDebate17/11/15 04:50 PM
23

I showed that picture to both of my kids, and I laughed when I saw their faces cringe. Also, slightly off topic, but children are also excellent detectors of alphas and omegas. They can instantly spot "coolness" and "losers." You have to be really careful doing experiments like this. I have no idea whether children are actually good at what you claim they are, but they are outstanding at unconsciously reading the body language and facial expressions of their parents so they can know what answer …
/r/PurplePillDebate17/11/15 03:48 PM
7

Imagine, for a sec, that Obamacare boy chose that outfit ironically to generate attention and interest, and has a metric fuckload of awesome shtick to go along with it. That he has that look on his face because he's just delivered a killer line that has the two hot girls beside him laughing their asses off, while simultaneously picturing themselves kneeling in front of him, sucking him off through the open zipper of those crazy-ass PJs. Feel better now? Now, I'm not telling you that that was wha…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/11/15 03:41 PM
1

I think you're making assumptions about my personal situation that appear reasonable from your perspective, but are erroneous given me and my wife's current state. I hope that my metaphor concerning our forums helps give you that deeper understanding. I was just more careless than usual in my choice "you" vs. "one" vs. "TRP". And the part that I explicitly said was "personal" was intended to be limited to the personal frustration you had explicitly expressed about the quality of the discussion. …
/r/PurplePillDebate13/11/15 09:04 PM
1

Their humanity? You mean the ideology that comes right up to advocating rape and violence against women? Which they pretty clearly believe, but once again don't have the balls to say. Go ahead on with that shit. That's INHUMAN. Ah, my friend...sadly, those things are only too human. You don't have to apologize to me for being frustrated or angry. Like I said, I've been there, and I still get there frequently over stuff like this. You haven't done me any wrong. I'm not asking for an apology. What…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/11/15 07:53 PM
3

This speaks to pretty much the entire arc of our conversation, so I'm going to respond. Thanks for (finally) being open about the strategy. I don't think you've been fully honest with yourself about (and/or fully understood) the implications of that strategy and its negative consequences for you personally. You've successfully communicated how dissatisfied you are that the TRP sidebar stuff ends up throwing so much chatter into discussions. You started by placing the blame for this at the feet o…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/11/15 07:22 PM
2

I'm going to have to apologize and end our discussion on this subject on its various fronts. I get your point of taking things on one at a time, but unfortunately that is ineffective when dealing with a system. If you look at our discussion objectively, you'll note that when we're discussing a problem with TRP idea A, you'll justify A using TRP idea B. Then we'll shift to B, and you'll justify B using some C. And so on, until we eventually get back to A. And then I try to list a bunch of them at…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/11/15 05:52 PM
2

What we usually get to debate is... "RP believes all women stop maturing at 18 and are children" Ok, this is really all that needs to be addressed here, because it's a good example of the general mistake you're making overall. So, here we go: You don't like having to debate that? Then take down the "most responsible teenager in the house" link. TRP claims to be for personal responsibility, so muster some up and start taking responsibility for how TRP communicates TRP's ideas. Until you remove th…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/11/15 05:26 PM
3

Yes, I understand that TRP convinces it's adherents to boil down everything that is not superficial attractiveness and sexual performance to a single thing, and to then accept a belittling label for that thing ("beta traits"). And I know that it tells you that you have to accept this demotion of, well, everything that makes you human because of The Women. And, yes, I know that nearly every dude has had an experience with a woman or three who appeared to not value the depth of his personality, an…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/11/15 05:03 PM
5

Ever been in a meeting at work? Ever gone to a bar after work? Ever had dinner with your family after that? Ever gone to a religious service the next morning (or whenever)? By your theory, people would act identically in all of those situations because, hey, they're not schizophrenic. Like I said: Easily falsifiable. Your confusion here is between changing one's behaviour as a result of a change in fundamental personality, and changing one's behaviour because the context within which one is oper…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/11/15 04:15 PM
2

I addressed your continued assumption of generality ("heuristic" or not!) in my other reply, so I won't repeat it here, and that covers most of your post. Since never. We are here to discuss that scrutiny. It's just rare for what we actually say/believe to be scrutinised... Usually it's a misunderstanding or strawman that gets scrutinised and that's no good to us. There is no way to learn and refine our ideas there. Ok, but in the post I was responding to, you said: It turns out, when you do tha…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/11/15 04:07 PM
5

Yes, as a useful heuristic. In the same way "Treat all guns as loaded" deals with the loaded status of guns. It's described as "all" because the usefulness of the heuristic comes from the assumption that "even this gun you are about to pick up" is loaded, even whilst humans are aware that many guns are not. Ok, a bit of strategy advice here: If you're genuinely trying to communicate and don't really want to be unnecessarily provocative, find metaphors that don't place women in the position of de…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/11/15 03:52 PM
1

I have to admit that I haven't looked into the specific thing you quoted in any rigorous way. I mean, there has to be room for characters of those descriptions in the world, just like there has to be room for the reverse. It's great, though, when we're all ready to scrutinize potential trends on either side rather than just figuring that men can "take it" while women are protected. For the record, I am completely ready to call myself a feminist as long as I get to specify the flavour, and with t…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/11/15 02:35 PM
1

I think someone should come up with a concept like "game", but extended to include the following notion: Interpersonal skills that help people have awesome, NSA, mutually-desired, and mutually-satisfying sexual encounters without anyone coming out the other side feeling betrayed, conned, diminished, or otherwise hurt. That fact is that many members of both sexes might pursue NSA sex if they could imagine navigating that terrain without getting crushed. There's no need for it so be just something…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/11/15 02:24 AM
2

Yes, and the very useful point that the stereotypical Nice Guy is actually manipulative and passive-aggressive. What you have to work to be is Sensitive, Thoughtful, Confident Guy (which Manson wraps up as Vulnerable). That Guy does pretty well.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/11/15 02:03 AM
1

I don't know about Mr. Manson in general, but you're doing that article a disservice by describing it as a "post on manipulative women". It's a post mainly on the "manipulative-woman panic" of TRP, and the reality that both men and women can be equally manipulative or vulnerable. It spends most of its words strongly challenging the viewpoint of an RP-like dude. Edit: So, thanks!
/r/PurplePillDebate13/11/15 01:46 AM
2

Ahahaha...well, I wasn't exactly trying to hide or anything. Heck, I noted in an edit that I'd given women orgasms by talking to them. I mean, I guess I could be a lesbian, but wtf would a lesbian be doing on PPD? I was trying to be very even-handed (arguably to a fault), so perhaps that was it. In any case, thanks for the compliment.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/11/15 01:19 AM
2

Well, I can tell that this situation makes you very angry, and I understand why that is. I've been there. I'm worried that you've allowed your anger to cause you to dehumanize these men. Don't worry, that's a very common, human reaction to something you don't understand. It's also common that you're ending up doing to them exactly what you're accusing them of doing to others. I'm not saying you're wrong that they're doing it (in fact, I've said it myself in my posts), but let's try to remember t…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/11/15 12:55 AM
3

Thanks for the reply. I'm still digging myself out work-wise from my posting spree yesterday, so I don't have a lot of time to craft a long response. Here are some questions, though: If one observes a problem, what responsibility does one have to attempt to help fix it? What responsibility does one have to at least not make it worse? If we are looking at a human system that has a problem, and we observe that providing some of the humans in that system with help could have mitigated aspects of th…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/11/15 07:31 PM
4

No, no. It's a story. It's like when you were a kid and the floor was lava. In part, what you're doing is re-engaging the kind of uncritical imaginative processes that we all enjoyed before we grew up and were told we couldn't use them anymore. We still do use them, but we just don't realize it and that's part of the problem. Using them on purpose improves your metacognitive skills and helps you to notice when they kick in.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/11/15 02:54 AM
2

Yeah, it's pretty powerful stuff. Here's another fun exercise you can try that can be pretty mind-opening and also amounts to practice: Stand in the middle of the most familiar, comfortable, safe place you can. Wherever you call home is best, but other comfortable, safe places will do. It should be somewhere where you'd never think to feel out of place, where you feel like you completely belong. Now, convince yourself of the opposite. Maybe you're there to rob the place, or you're an assassin im…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/11/15 02:43 AM
3

The hypnotic phenomena I described can happen on a much shorter time-scale (read: fractions of seconds) than what is typically implied by "neuroplasticity", and can be completely temporary. As I described in the first part of the second post, though, I definitely credit three things in particular for the power that idea systems can have over human thinking: the effect of expectation on perception, near-blindness to the influence of associations, and the need to find an explanation for unexplaine…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/11/15 02:34 AM
5

Yeah, I intentionally avoided using the term "cult" because I think it is too strong here, and that it implies centralized control (which appears to be largely lacking). More importantly, though, my experience as a hypnotist has shown me that people do this kind of thing to themselves all the damn time, even if not in these kinds of numbers. Its so common that I don't think men should be ashamed of feeling an attraction to these ideas. They're in a tough spot.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/11/15 02:18 AM
3

You just set loud warning bells off in my head, I want to be very clear about one very important thing: I am not accusing any individuals of any kind of strategy for devising the self-reinforcing aspects of TRP that I described. This is not even slightly required. These things happen all the time in the idea ecosystem through essentially the same sorts of random (but not uniformly distributed!) combinations that cause evolution in the biological world. What I'm describing is what happened when a…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/11/15 02:10 AM
1

Thanks! Glad it was useful.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/15 11:42 PM
3

Edit: Requisite (and genuine) thanks for the gold, stranger! Don't have time to write a specific response, but happy to paste this general description that I wrote to someone at some point: I was drawn to hypnosis through my research into the placebo effect in general, and was rather surprised to find that it was well-founded and effective. In fact, I often describe hypnosis as the generalization of the placebo effect. This is actually saying something very powerful about hypnosis, because the p…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/15 11:26 PM
2

Well, you're really getting into the hypnosis end of things when you get into roles. Roles and their associated narratives have ridiculously powerful effects on human thinking. But I've typed enough for today, so I'm not going to get started...
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/15 11:14 PM
4

In short: You suggest that men should work their asses off to be more attractive. But not for themselves. They should work their asses off for the sake of women's happiness. Nope. The context of that quote was me rebutting some very fixed-mindset generalizations, including the notion that women will never be attracted to the "feminist" men that they claim to want. Part of my whole theme here is that TRP fails to separate bedroom behaviour (for lack of a better term) from non-bedroom behaviour. T…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/15 11:07 PM
6

Let me first say that I'm assuming the age of consent is 16 or lower wherever this is happening. I have no interest in arguing this point otherwise. That said: If you unequivocally pick either side here, you're wrong. It is completely fucking possible for these two to have a sexual relationship that leaves the 16-year-old better off. Any other conclusion, as OP notes, is ageist on both ends. As a result, it is impossible to say any individual case is "wrong" based only on the ages involved. So i…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/15 10:49 PM
10

Since when does one get to craft generally-applicable descriptions of anyone that make strong, controversial statements about their nature, and not expect scrutiny? TRP has a link on the sidebar to the "teenager" thing about women. How is that supportable? Why would you be surprised that that would provoke the response you've described? You're acting like TRP is just putting forward reasonable, realistic stuff. How do you keep skipping over that? I am right there with you, though, regarding how …
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/15 10:35 PM
11

But twice now we've gone over the means you think are being used, and they are basic RP concepts that explain real human behaviour in the sexual marketplace... And are actually being used for that purpose. This assertion here is the core of our disagreement. They explain the behaviour of which real humans, exactly? Oh, right...all of them, without qualification. I've noted in previous posts that if TRP put itself forward as a community of self-identified members that enjoyed, wanted, or needed t…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/15 10:18 PM
6

Reposting my reply: Thanks for the pointers. I have read some of that stuff, but not enough to memorize the jargon and use it properly. I have much more experience with hypnosis, which has its own models of the same sort of thing. Either way, I wanted to avoid technical jargon. I just double-checked to make sure that I did not use the word "hate", because I agree that that would have been a mistake and would not have communicated what I meant. As far as I can see, I didn't. Not once, unless I've…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/15 09:35 PM
13

I completely acknowledge the fundamental problem you're pointing out here. Naturally, there are cases in which idea systems point out true things that are uncomfortable to hear. One might argue that the best ones do that. But the difference, for me, is between the demands and limitations that TRP explicitly places on its followers and is willing to own and back up, and the ones that it's sneakier about and blames on women. It is explicit in that it thinks you should lift. It requires you to impr…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/15 09:31 PM
3

To which part do you think they'd object? I'm serious, I'm generally bad at noticing that kind of thing.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/15 09:18 PM
9

You're either trolling, or you deeply misunderstood the point I was making. If trolling, no problem! You have successfully communicated that you disagree with me and agree with the TRP ideas.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/15 09:11 PM
3

Oh, and I made a post. Flair? Meh. I don't see how BP is considered a "thing" like RP. It's a label for a satirical position opposed to RP, not for a competing, coherent system of ideas. I don't see how one could be for it. I suppose I could be purple since I'm coming around to the decision that making fun of RP dudes in pain is neither productive nor humane, and I'm willing to value their contributions (as I've shown in my posts). But I'm in no rush.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/15 08:56 PM
1

Thanks for the pointers. I have read some of that stuff, but not enough to memorize the jargon and use it properly. I have much more experience with hypnosis, which has its own models of the same sort of thing. Either way, I wanted to avoid technical jargon. I just double-checked to make sure that I did not use the word "hate", because I agree that that would have been a mistake and would not have communicated what I meant. As far as I can see, I didn't. Not once, unless I've managed to fail at …
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/15 08:51 PM
2

I'm against the scapegoating of women for the male struggles adapting to change. It's the drug dealer's decision to purchase a gun, buy drugs from a supplier, and start to sell them. When he's arrested, he can't say "it's the government's fault." But when we discuss drug policy and wonder why there are so many drug dealers we cannot avoid how government regulation leads to high drug prices which makes drug dealing an attractive job. Ok...but even if one accepts the premise of this analogy (which…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/15 08:14 PM
2

I'm not going to get into an argument with you about the benefits of integrity. I will point out, though, that there doesn't have to be a contradiction between integrity and sex. I have no argument with much of what TRP advocates with regards to presenting yourself to women and stoking their interest. As long as you are honestly representing yourself and your intentions after that, it is not an integrity issue. I'm not moralizing here. I'm against the scapegoating of women for the male struggles…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/15 06:43 PM
5

First of all: I'm a dude, dude! But it's a wonderful compliment, actually, that you assumed that I'm female. I agree that the nature/nurture question is important. It is especially important with regards to TRP assumptions about female behaviour. As I said, women are working within the same rapidly-shifting framework as men. They're getting lots of support on the career side, but not nearly so much when it comes to figuring out how to deal with men in this new landscape. It is hardly surprising …
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/15 06:10 PM
3

I posted more. Part 1 and Part 2
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/15 04:31 PM
2

I posted more. Part 1 and Part 2
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/15 04:30 PM
2

I posted more. Part 1 and Part 2
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/15 04:30 PM
11

THIS IS PART 2. Part 1 is here There are, of course, idea systems that would provide genuinely positive, growth-oriented, outward-looking answers to these questions. But they're complicated, challenging, and provide no short-term guarantees (and perhaps few or no long-term ones). These young men are already struggling to adapt on many fronts in their lives besides this one, and they're not being supported at all as they do so with slogans like "Girls can do anything!". Unlike women, they're not …
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/15 04:28 PM
5

NOTE: I'm putting this up in two parts because the whole thing was beyond the 10000-character limit. Oh, you. Flattery will get you everywhere. Uh...well maybe not, but it will get you more me-words. It's probably worth taking a moment here to talk about idea systems. They are, arguably, a form of non-biological life with which we share the planet. As our bodies leverage resources in the physical landscape to sustain themselves, idea systems leverage resources in the human mindscape to do the sa…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/15 04:28 PM
25

I think the best way to understand TRP and related phenomena is as a regrettable but understandable backlash against the loss of traditional male roles and values caused by growing male/female equality. The equality is good and necessary, but in hindsight it would have been good for society to have recognized the pressures it would put on men to adapt, and to support them through that process. I'm going to disagree with you on your first point, because I think it is outdated and quickly fading. …
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/15 11:42 PM
2

I would categorize the kind of feminism you disagree with as "pop" feminism more than "left" feminism. It's the flavour with easy answers, and that's almost always bad. Personal responsibility is often the first thing to disappear when something turns populist. I agree with you that one of the most positive aspects of TRP is its emphasis on dudes taking responsibility for how they present themselves. That's a refreshing change from putting down the game controller long enough to whine about how …
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/15 04:59 PM
0

Oh I'm sure I'm giving in to the snark more than is fair. I think you've described quite well the emotional consequences of TRP for most men. I guess that just makes me pretty mad. They suck them in with a bunch of good advice and support at the start, promise much more, and then lock them into a poisoned world-view. Huh...sounds a lot like a religion/cult, now that I put it that way. Hm. We can agree to disagree w.r.t. "modern feminism". One of the major differences from my point of view is tha…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/15 03:57 PM
0

Yes, the absolutism part is what I was getting at with the "found truth" bit. But the absolutism is one symptom of the emotional stakes they've bet on this paranoid fantasy of theirs. Naturally, they don't see it as an emotional thing for them, but that's because part of the fantasy is that men are better than the emotional women. The internal contradictions are really too numerous to get into without typing for an hour. As for people who take the master/slave thing out of the bedroom...yeah, th…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/15 05:24 AM
1

I must use the name "Chad Thundercock" as often as possible now. You have my eternal gratitude for introducing me to it.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/15 04:56 AM
0

I'd compare TRP to a fetish community like BDSM, but I'm worried that would insult the good folks into BDSM. I'm serious though. If you want to be a PUA, go for it. If you're only interested in having a relationship with certain kinds of women with certain kinds of rules, go for it. Everything's cool between consenting adults, and I have no interest in telling people how to run their lives and relationships. The problem with TRP is that it thinks it is more than a bunch of people who have a comm…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/15 04:50 AM
0

Dude, I feel your pain. I'm going to echo u/betterdeadthanbeta below and say you should detox. Kill your reddit account. Hell, use Leechblock or similar to prevent yourself from going on reddit at all. Same with other similar sites. It sounds like you're struggling with some tough personal shit here, and trying to get into a relationship at the same time is just going to mess you up. This is not about red pills or blue pills, this is about you figuring out your life. Every one of us, male and fe…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/15 04:26 AM
5

Well, I can't tell from your post what your experience has been or what you're bringing to the relationship table, so it's hard to say. I would not agree that much of what TRP says about relationships holds true. Let's take a look at what they've got. There's a big chunk that contains a lot of readily-available and largely uncontroversial advice in the direction of making yourself more attractive. Naturally, that can only help, but it's not really about "relationships". It's about attractiveness…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/15 04:08 AM
13

First of all, throw out the myth of the "perfect guy". It's killing you, dude. Do some girls believe in this same myth? Sure. Does that mean you have to fall into the same trap? No. I'm not going to tell you to "be yourself" instead. That just feels defeatist and pointless, right? Why just keep being the same thing? That's not good enough. You should always be trying to get better. But, be better for whom? Here's the answer: For you. Not for the girls who let themselves be fooled into fucking th…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/15 01:58 AM
1

then it's their fault that you manipulate them to get it All sex that isn't rape or prostitution is an effort of persuasion. Oh gawd. Heaven forbid sex be a mutually enjoyable, mutually desired interaction! One of the great tragedies of TRP is that it appeals to emotionally-stunted men, and proceeds to convince them to stunt themselves further. I guess if you don't feel then there's no pain, but at what terrible cost? I have a very easy solution for you if every sexual encounter you've had is on…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/11/15 08:39 PM
1

Yeeeeaaaaahhhh..."male promiscuity shouldn't be encouraged"? I'm starting to think that I've read more TRP stuff than you have. On second thought, it's probably just that wilful blindness of yours. ...aaaand now you're just asserting things about male and female infidelity that have no basis in fact. None. Welcome to truthiness! Why check facts when you can just pull things out of your ass, eh? You've successfully made this boring. I thought your admission of selfishness would make you interesti…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/11/15 08:14 PM
1

No. This is you not owning your own desire. You've decided that because quiet, bookish you desires awesome, nasty sex that someone then owes it to you. And if they don't give it to you, then it's their fault that you manipulate them to get it. Like anyone in a situation of perceived scarcity, you overestimate how much everyone else has of the thing you want so dearly. You cherry-pick the evidence around you of manipulative dicks getting pussy, and convince yourself that you can't not do the same…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/11/15 08:08 PM
2

BWAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA...ok, now what about the promiscuous men? What are they more likely to do? Why do you ask women to answer for the idiots in their midst and not require men to do the same? Or did you bother to look into or even think about that? Is it just ok for men to cheat and divorce, or have you decided that, like everything else, men cheating and divorcing is the fault of the woman? Why aren't the men staying home and being caretakers in equal partnership to stave off that implosion? …
/r/PurplePillDebate09/11/15 07:50 PM
3

The contradiction is that they worship balls, but don't have the balls to admit that their recommended ways of dealing with women are heartless and cruel. I'm not saying they should be selfless, I'm saying that if they're going to be selfish they should man up and admit it, and stop saying women are making them do it. That's just fucking sad.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/11/15 07:28 PM
7

TRP is about selfishness, pure and simple. So is feminism. Nope. There's that cherry-picking thing. It's called "confirmation bias", look it up. See, there are a bunch of clueless, selfish people in the world. About half of them are women. Some of these women call themselves "feminists", but then they cherry-pick rules and ideas from feminism in a way that selfishly benefits themselves. Thing is, this is not nearly unique to feminism. It happens to all such ideologies or movements. I mean, you e…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/11/15 07:16 PM
10

Well, I applaud your honesty. When you strip away the uncontroversial stuff about being fit and confident, TRP is about selfishness, pure and simple. Oddly enough, that's not the real problem. The real problem is how it cherry-picks, distorts, and misrepresents evidence (never mind just making stuff up...) to claim that selfishness is the only possible response to those horrible, life-sucking women. That's the fundamental contradiction at the heart of TRP. It claims that men should be ballsy, th…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/11/15 06:43 PM
2

Concision has its purposes, and one of them is as a way to test your own understanding of your ideas. If you can't summarize your argument in a few well-crafted sentences (not communicate everything about it, but summarize it), then chances are you're not quite sure exactly what it is you're trying to say. And if you're not sure, your reader is going to be left unsure. I was mainly debating this right here. I don't believe I could have sunstancially reduced the post without it lacking credibilit…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/11/15 10:30 PM
8

No, that's absolutely not what I said at all. I am, in fact, a big fan of subtlety, and often end up making long posts. But I also try very hard not to add words that just "feel good" when a second look tells me that they're not helping me explain my argument to my audience. More words does not always mean more clarity, and I'm quite certain Mr. Chomsky would agree. You've complained already a few times about people misunderstanding what you wrote. Might you consider that your inability to clear…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/11/15 10:02 PM
8

It's a bit hard to take a Noam Chomsky quote seriously from you when you've chosen to ignore all he might have to say about your liberal application of sweeping, convenient generalizations. Concision has its purposes, and one of them is as a way to test your own understanding of your ideas. If you can't summarize your argument in a few well-crafted sentences (not communicate everything about it, but summarize it), then chances are you're not quite sure exactly what it is you're trying to say. An…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/11/15 09:52 PM
13

Uhhhhh...this is really long and angry way to say, "I had some specific issues with my SO and resolved them. Maybe you'd find the details helpful should they end up applying to you." But, of course, putting it that way would require a shred of humility and perspective, and not having either of those things is definitely "RP as fuck".
/r/PurplePillDebate06/11/15 08:26 PM
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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