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themountaingoat Archive

View 27 posts and 3,946 comments by themountaingoat on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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themountaingoat/r/MensRights28/02/12 04:31 AM
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themountaingoat/r/MensRights01/01/13 09:49 PM
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themountaingoat/r/MensRights28/03/13 10:06 PM
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themountaingoat/r/MensRights13/10/13 06:48 AM
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themountaingoat/r/MensRights09/12/11 06:37 AM
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themountaingoat/r/MensRights09/03/12 06:31 AM
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themountaingoat/r/MensRights25/03/13 08:18 AM
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themountaingoat/r/MensRights24/12/11 02:14 AM
Showing the 1,000 most recent of 3,946 comments.
Upvotes Comment on Subreddit Date (UTC)
3

Women are being treated like they're helpless and incompetent, like they're all children. I don't see how anyone can say it's unfair to men that they're NOT treated like helpless children... I can only guess it's said by some men who would actually like to be treated like a child. People constantly make choices that sacrifice freedom over safety and having a nice life in terms of material things. In the west we act as if the choice of freedom is obvious because life here is easy. If you lived in…
/r/MensRights21/10/15 03:36 PM
3

The Canadian Association for Equality is making a good deal of progress in dealing with men's issues on the ground. They have opened up a center and offer a variety of programs to men.
/r/MensRights28/03/15 08:55 PM
2

Are you in touch with CAFE? They can always use volunteers or even just people that they can call on.
/r/MensRights28/03/15 08:50 PM
1

but there is. He said to even vote not guilty in cases where it's been proven. He says that you can never know if it is actually proven or not because you can never know you are getting all the relevant evidence.
/r/MensRights05/06/14 07:13 PM
2

Either both women and men have a legitimate place or neither do. The difference between women and minorities is that women are very biologically different than men, and discrimination has never been the main thing keeping women in certain fields. Also women are favoured in some areas.
/r/MensRights08/02/14 03:55 AM
2

I think that if you are going to give advantages to women in male dominated fields you should do the same for men in female dominated ones. This is only fair. Otherwise you end up with women having a net advantage in the workplace as a whole.
/r/MensRights08/02/14 03:03 AM
10

In a male dominated field you are allowed to hire women preferentially, in a female dominated field you aren't allowed to hire men preferentially. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action#Canada
/r/MensRights05/02/14 06:48 PM
9

In Canada affirmative action in favour of women is allowed and affirmative action in favour of men is illegal.
/r/MensRights05/02/14 03:57 PM
9

It still isn't nice hearing that female body issues=societies fault and male insecurity=your own fault.
/r/MensRights26/01/14 10:43 PM
1

No, but if they were designed to be sex symbols they would still likely portray the men as extremely muscular.
/r/MensRights26/01/14 10:41 PM
2

Or it could be because a lot of rape accusations are false. But the article just assumes that a rape accusation not proven false is true.
/r/MensRights23/01/14 07:52 PM
1

It takes a while because there is just so much misinformation out there. I would have focused on challenging the 70% statistic in this situation. You have to take it slowly and build everything up on an absolutely firm foundation. You need to know a lot in order to be effective, and there are a lot of good arguments to learn.
/r/MensRights19/01/14 05:00 AM
2

That's kind of irrelevant. If you wear something that shows off or draws attention to a certain aspect of yourself it is just stupid to expect people not to notice the thing your clothing draws attention too. Why you wear the clothing has nothing to do with it.
/r/MensRights19/01/14 01:57 AM
3

Because some of them are dumb, and finding the answer might be hard. There are plenty of unresolved questions in math that have a right answer even though we don't have it yet.
/r/MensRights13/01/14 05:31 AM
2

I am mostly an anti-feminist. To the extent that I am an MRA I am one because feminism has already done almost all it can on women's issues.
/r/MensRights13/01/14 05:08 AM
2

They'll both give you the "correct" answer, as far as they're concerned. That doesn't mean there isn't a true answer about which one is right.
/r/MensRights13/01/14 04:33 AM
2

And who gets to decide whether something is discriminatory against women? If you don't believe in the ability to decide anything by using the data available and the principles of reason then a lot of things we do are useless. However most people believe that it is possible to tell what is correct from looking at data and using reason. It is't always easy to tell what is equal but there are some ways to tell for sure, and feminism clearly fails to be equal. For example, if equality of outcome was…
/r/MensRights13/01/14 03:54 AM
1

The difference is that we don't need to take responsibility because MRA leaders aren't advocating for discriminatory legislation. Feminists don't have to police what everyone who calls themselves a feminist says, they just need to change what the feminists in leadership roles and those who are followed say, and if they can't do that they should not use the same label any more. NAFALT isn't really true anyway, most feminists are like that it is just difficult to get them to admit it.
/r/MensRights13/01/14 03:38 AM
1

I think a large part of the value of self defense comes from the increased confidence that comes with it, instead of from actually being able to fight. If you look confident and act like you aren't afraid to get into a fight people are more likely to not get into fights with you.
/r/MensRights11/01/14 09:42 AM
5

Ignoring the truth helps no-one.
/r/MensRights11/01/14 08:58 AM
4

Because a school system that is tailored to women and many more scholarships for post secondary school have nothing to do with creating the current economic climate where women have an advantage in certain fields.
/r/MensRights10/01/14 06:06 PM
2

It depends what you are talking about. There is no gender gap if we are trying to show how men are worse than women. There is one if we are trying to get additional advantages for women. Simple really.
/r/MensRights10/01/14 06:04 PM
4

What I find funny is how almost all fiction, gaming and almost all movies deny reality to portray women in a way that feminists want them to be portrayed. Women simply can't compete with the top athletes and fighters who are men, and so would have no place in combat, but this reality gets ignored in almost every supposedly "sexist" comic and book.
/r/MensRights10/01/14 12:46 AM
1

Don't we?
/r/MensRights07/01/14 11:30 PM
17

The difference is that women can check if a man is using a condom, men have no way to tell if a woman is actually on birth control.
/r/MensRights07/01/14 11:05 PM
2

No, just if you force/recommend boy read them boys won't want to keep reading.
/r/MensRights05/01/14 04:38 AM
1

I don't really know, since I don't make a point of reading or remembering them when I see them, but they exist.
/r/MensRights05/01/14 04:33 AM
1

There are plenty of strong women/girl stories that get published for elementary schools.
/r/MensRights05/01/14 04:12 AM
2

Did I say there was? No, I am just saying that you excuse it and justify it, when the reasons you give have absolutely nothing to do with why people dislike us.
/r/MensRights05/01/14 03:56 AM
2

The vast majority of feminists share certain anti-male beliefs. It's like telling a conservative they need to abandon that label because many conservatives are anti-gay. It would be like telling a member of the conservative party to stop calling themselves conservative because conservatives believe in small government and they don't.
/r/MensRights05/01/14 02:08 AM
1

You know, books that worry too much about having strong women and PC characters and so on.
/r/MensRights05/01/14 02:05 AM
1

I don't know, as I never really read comics myself. My mother is a librarian in the primary school and I don't think she uses comics. There are many books that appeal to these kinds of ideas that aren't comics. Just stay away from anything PC or that attempts to portray women "correctly" according to a modern feminist view.
/r/MensRights05/01/14 01:48 AM
4

I don't care what feminist actually believe deep down inside, I care about what the movement does, and almost everything it does is anti-male. It doesn't follow that every feminist is evil, but if they have heard some of the criticisms of feminism and don't start to question it and eventually stop being feminists then I think they are morally culpable for supporting the feminist movement.
/r/MensRights05/01/14 12:51 AM
4

Feminism as a movement is pretty equivalent to the KKK.
/r/MensRights05/01/14 12:11 AM
3

It just doesn't make sense to assume entire groups of people are evil. I am not assuming it, I am justifying it based on the fact that they choose to identify with and support a bigoted group. If someone said they were a member of the KKK everyone would assume they were a racist with good reason, and the same thing should go for feminism. Why would you want to alienate those who might actually agree with you? If they don't care enough to admit they were wrong and change the label they use their …
/r/MensRights04/01/14 11:51 PM
1

Except that almost all feminist initiatives are anti-male. It is idiotic to call yourself the same name as a movement if you disagree with all or the vast majority of what they stand for.
/r/MensRights04/01/14 11:31 PM
7

and the reason so many people look down upon MRAs Yea, I am sure people down voting here is why Warren Farrell gets violent protests outside his talks. I am sort of tired of people like you trying to find any excuse for the unjustified hatred people have for anyone who dares to speak up for men.
/r/MensRights04/01/14 11:20 PM
4

You can't believe in equality and anti-equality at the same time. The feminists who are a part of this movement only manage it by cognitive dissonance.
/r/MensRights04/01/14 11:18 PM
2

I don't think it is really about male teachers, but more about teachers with more understanding and respect for boys.
/r/MensRights03/01/14 08:50 PM
2

I part of the problem is that boys are more vulnerable to bad teaching, since they will just disengage, while girls will still try hard to win the teachers approval.
/r/MensRights03/01/14 08:46 PM
2

I have thought a lot about this issue, and my mother who is a teacher has a reputation for being a good teacher for boys. Here are some things I think are causing the problem. I think girls are more likely to just do what they are told by the teacher even if they think it is stupid and boring. If a teacher doesn't really know the material they are teaching and teaches it in a way that is devoid of interest (often by not being interested themselves and just telling others to do research projects)…
/r/MensRights03/01/14 08:40 PM
4

I find it a funny joke that draws attention to how biased things are against men.
/r/MensRights03/01/14 08:12 PM
11

Personally I dislike the term because it seems to imply that women are at a disadvantage and held down by society. Women may face disadvantages, but those are not deliberately put there, and most if not all of the disadvantages they face are the unavoidable side effects of advantages they have.
/r/MensRights03/01/14 04:26 AM
5

And that means precisely nothing. Should we all start smoking and being cruel to animals to not be like the Nazi's? Clearly not.
/r/MensRights02/01/14 07:11 PM
1

"You don't hate jews, what is wrong with you"
/r/MensRights02/01/14 12:07 AM
1

I just haven't seen much evidence that the economic effects are not caused by things like discrimination in the school system or the sexual harassment laws that give women huge advantages in professional situations. Another possible reason is that men realize it doesn't make as much sense to be a big earner these days since marriage is such a shitty deal, especially if you are the bigger earner.
/r/MensRights01/01/14 11:50 PM
3

I don't think I agree with you that the male identity crisis is caused by the economy. I think that men would be far better at working with people if the ways in which you interact with people weren't mandated to be exactly the ways in which women prefer to interact.
/r/MensRights01/01/14 11:06 PM
2

If people won't change their minds because it requires admitting they were wrong any apparent changing of their minds that comes from sugarcoating it will be illusory. That's what feminists do - torture you until you admit your sins as a patriarchal oppressor. Feminists do this and are very successful. It is only immoral and wrong because they don't use real facts and are bigoted themselves. There is nothing wrong with aggressively calling out bigotry and false or harmful information, and femini…
/r/MensRights01/01/14 09:57 PM
3

This mans writing indicates so clearly that feminism was never about equality.
/r/MensRights01/01/14 07:26 PM
2

And I've found that I have been much more effective convincing other people when I've focused on gaining sympathy for men's issues instead of focusing on anti-feminism. Sure, you can get people to pay lip service to men's issues, but they generally won't stop doing feminist things that are actually harming men. Of course people will be more accepting if you don't actually require them to change or make them admit that they are part of the problem, but you also don't get anything done.
/r/MensRights01/01/14 09:01 AM
3

Criticizing people who deserve to be criticized isn't being a dick.
/r/MensRights01/01/14 08:57 AM
8

Who gives a fuck what feminist say or believe? Anyone who has done advocacy and had it prevented or made incredibly difficult due to feminists and the misinformation they spread. The majority of men's issues won't get attention as long as feminism is around in it's current form.
/r/MensRights29/12/13 10:39 PM
10

Anti-feminism is the most important part of the MRM at the moment.
/r/MensRights29/12/13 05:06 PM
2

For sure, but it deals with the problems men face because they are men, not every problem that any man faces.
/r/MensRights29/12/13 05:01 PM
7

Why do we need to fix the problems of every subgroup of men? Those subgroups have their own organizations. Are you going to demand we try to cure cancer as well, to support the men who have it?
/r/MensRights29/12/13 05:41 AM
2

Do you truly feel that the difference in power and influence through history has been equal between the genders? Power and influence are not the only areas in which one can be discriminated against. Of course if you only consider the areas where men traditionally had an advantage you will find that they come out ahead. Your disagreement on the second point is probably based upon similar errors. Power is not only the ability to make decisions effecting companies and countries, it is also the abil…
/r/MensRights29/12/13 05:31 AM
2

Neither sex was discriminated against more during history, each sex had advantages and disadvantages to it's role and which role is preferred depends upon a particular person's subjective preferences. that men do NOT have more power than women? Men don't have more power than women if you define power in a sensible way, and not just so that all the ways men have control over things are counted and none of the ways women have control over things are.
/r/MensRights29/12/13 02:51 AM
2

I don't think this statement is supported by the evidence at all. The only way you can think it is obvious is if you buy into the feminist narrative of ignoring all the disadvantages of the male gender role and exaggerating all the disadvantages of the female one.
/r/MensRights29/12/13 01:34 AM
1

I can tell you just don't know anything about what you are talking about.
/r/MensRights24/12/13 09:55 AM
2

This isn't a good argument however, and clearly comes from someone with little to no knowledge of the situation MR faces when it comes to advocacy. No-one is going to listen to a petition, especially when feminists who have so much more power are against it. Showing the ridiculousness of the form is the only option.
/r/MensRights21/12/13 09:02 PM
1

Newton made tons of sweeping generalizations.
/r/MensRights21/12/13 08:51 PM
3

Feminists have a proven history of lying, so it doesn't make sense to take anything they say as true without justification. In the case of what you are saying it doesn't make sense to ask for a citation, as that isn't really the type of thing that would be published in a study. I could however justify that belief with examples and arguments.
/r/MensRights12/12/13 07:50 PM
5

You can find them on their website. Now has a history of using incredibly biased statistics. He wanted you to provide the source so we can critique the methodology of the study, because feminists studies are almost always deliberately designed to get certain results.
/r/MensRights11/12/13 04:57 AM
1

One is complaining about men not being able to get women I don't think I have seen much of that in this thread, and you are right that there is no reason to fix this "problem".
/r/MensRights03/12/13 05:04 PM
3

If you use gender neutral definitions of rape the CDC actually finds similar levels of perpetration.
/r/MensRights03/12/13 04:59 PM
1

You appear to think this is a dating advice thread. It isn't. We are discussing whether women are right to label guys who may not be the best at dating as creeps. you want to stand out a little from them. Again, not a dating advice thread. The issues is whether not standing out =worthy of being called a creep, when the only difference is just that the guy is less good at knowing what women want, which it clearly isn't. i didn't say the first guy is an asshole. But the women did, which is what we…
/r/MensRights03/12/13 04:35 PM
1

I do think there is some truth to it that way because of all the things women say you should do that if you do them make it much harder to get into relationships. This causes a selection bias where the guys that are better with women are the guys that don't pay as much attention to what they say/don't worry about their feelings as much.
/r/MensRights03/12/13 04:22 PM
6

So unborn fetuses are people when it comes to women suffering but not when women want to kill them. And I am denying reality? It is easy to feel justified in your beliefs if you don't defend them and retreat to echo chambers.
/r/MensRights03/12/13 12:51 AM
7

integrating the military Getting women the right, not the obligation. If you think the burden of war falling exclusively on men is a problem, then thank a feminist. I think not acknowledging this as an area where men have historically been disadvantaged is a problem, and for this I blame feminists who paint everything as men=privileged women=oppressed when this has no basis in reality. You don't need to respond today to this post but I really think you should address some of the points I have ma…
/r/MensRights02/12/13 11:39 PM
1

It seems to me that most women are told "because you are worth it" these days. So I guess the added attention doesn't seem to me like it would make that much of a difference.
/r/MensRights02/12/13 10:44 PM
9

the women end up dead or never-born. Are fetuses people now? That seems contrary to the usual feminist position. How is that worse for men than for women? Because fetuses aren't people, so they can't suffer. But it isn't really a contest anyway. Why start a reactionary, anti-feminist movement and deny sexism hurts women more than men? Because in this case obviously men are hurt more than women unless you take a break from the usual feminist position and treat fetuses as people. It is the same in…
/r/MensRights02/12/13 10:40 PM
3

They don't really care much about men, since they believe that most men are evil and oppress women. They are of course more enlightened than most men in their own minds and so deserving of better treatment from women (which is the whole point of them being feminists) but sometimes they still act as if they are pretty worthless. The whole point of male feminists is to out compete other men in being a good man and so deserve female attention and sex.
/r/MensRights02/12/13 08:45 PM
13

Because men are expected to provide for their families and women aren't to the same degree. Women are so protected that caring for them is basically only a burden on the parents while male children are not so protected and so are expected to give back and care for their parents once they grow up.
/r/MensRights02/12/13 08:42 PM
2

I think when people say things like "women are like X" they usually mean most women are like X. There are plenty of women who are incredibly popular in the MRM which indicates that most men here don't think all women are bad.
/r/MensRights02/12/13 07:04 PM
4

You are allowed to have emotions and do certain things based upon them, one of which is politely complain about what you have a problem with. But you can't, for example, use racial slurs just because you feel uncomfortable around a black person.
/r/MensRights02/12/13 07:02 PM
2

You want extreme beauty you probably are going to get ego, privilege, and other downsides along with the nice ass and perfect skin. I don't think it is true that beautiful people are any more unkind than other people. I think people generally just say this as a way to blame guys for being treated badly.
/r/MensRights02/12/13 06:49 PM
3

commenting their looks first makes it look like you just want sex. And what is wrong with that? Plenty of people want sex, and there is nothing the matter with that according to most women, in fact they complain about slut shaming. the second guy's interaction is better at first. "appletini for the lady". there's no pressure, he's just casually chatting with her, he's not trying to get sex or anything like that, at least that's the impression he gives off at first. (he does just want sex, but he…
/r/MensRights02/12/13 06:46 PM
2

It's relying on social cues and norms that are being violated, and there is not any current way of "proving" one way or the other. It you can't give an objective test it is subjective.
/r/MensRights02/12/13 06:21 PM
1

You musta figured I'm female. I did figure that out, but that has nothing to do with why I insulted your intelligence. I did that because you totally missed the point of what I wrote in a way that seems to me like you were barely reading it. If you keep attributing all your problems to your gender you are never going to improve as a person. My law degree God I hope not.
/r/MensRights02/12/13 04:38 PM
2

I don't agree with this. Creepy implies that there is something wrong with the person, whereas what you are describing is just a feeling YOU have that may or may not have any correlation with reality. You are fine to act based upon your feeling, or even voice it, but you should bear in mind that you don't really have any basis in reality for your problem and may just be biased. Acting on vague feelings and thinking they are probably correct is straight up racism if applied to people of a differe…
/r/MensRights02/12/13 04:37 PM
4

Yea, totally. We should ask a girl if she thinks girls are always right in their every little feeling. A girl wouldn't have any possible reason to be biased about girls would she?
/r/MensRights02/12/13 07:19 AM
3

It's about your stupid sex life. How is this at all about me? Women are attracted to powerful famous men, and that is well known. It is also well known that being attractive to the opposite sex is a large part of peoples motivation, whether consciously, or because they have evolved to like doing the things that will allow them to reproduce. So you have men with more motivation to go into politics and to sacrifice more in order to do so, which means more men trying harder to get into politics, wh…
/r/MensRights02/12/13 06:30 AM
5

People have instincts, but those instincts mean jack shit about reality. Sure, we have an instinct to be afraid of snakes, but many snakes are not dangerous in the least. We might have an instinct towards mistrusting people of a different race than us because they are different, but as rational moral people we realize that our every feeling is not to be acted on and move beyond them.
/r/MensRights02/12/13 06:04 AM
2

Yea, I have. I have been wrong about it sometimes, so I don't assume that anyone I don't immediately like is a bad person, which is what people do when they use the word creep.
/r/MensRights02/12/13 06:02 AM
6

That is not what women mean, because in the vast majority of situations where creepy is used women have no idea whether any of those things are true. They just mean I don't like something about him, which is often just that he is not doing exactly what they like or they don't find him attractive.
/r/MensRights02/12/13 06:01 AM
2

Just because you are in power doesn't mean you can do anything. And you don't need to be actually in the position of power in order to do things. Feminists are listened too by the majority of politicians just because they have influence and people are inclined to listen to women.
/r/MensRights02/12/13 05:53 AM
2

Because you can't force people to want to go into politics. Most of the people who want to go into politics are men (largely because power increases men's sex appeal and not women's) and so feminism can't change that. It is the same reason most heads of companies are still men. The only way feminist can change that is by taking women who are less qualified/want it less through unfair legislative advantage, which many of them are trying to do. If you look at the people in power though, the majori…
/r/MensRights02/12/13 05:51 AM
3

Personally I identify as an anti-feminist as opposed to an MRA as I have some problems with the MRM. In my mind stopping feminist misinformation and at least getting people thinking about men is the most important thing.
/r/MensRights02/12/13 03:12 AM
5

I am glad you realize that feminism is not an egalitarian movement. The MRM isn't really anti-egalitarian, we just focus on the men's side of things more because no-one else even considers that side of things. Personally I think that many women's issues are actually made worse by feminist advocacy and so the MRM, by focusing on men's issues is actually helping women.
/r/MensRights02/12/13 03:06 AM
3

"I'm a a Christian, and I don't believe in God, why can't Christians and Atheists just get along" is equivalent to what you are doing.
/r/MensRights02/12/13 02:49 AM
2

Yea, but you alone can't change the meaning of the word. If you get feminist groups to stop being so anti-male then maybe that would be a start. But I somehow doubt you are even as fair to men as you seem to think you are.
/r/MensRights02/12/13 02:40 AM
3

Why can we not have common ground? Because you support and choose to identify with a movement that is the largest force fighting against equality for men (feminism if that wasn't clear). This indicates that you are not really concerned about equality for everyone, and more likely just concerned with female superiority. I have been called stupid, less valuable, slutty (for having sex with as man people as many of the guys I know, but them getting praise for it), I have been sexually taken advanta…
/r/MensRights02/12/13 02:38 AM
0

I guess. I meant no legitimate use of the word when referring to people.
/r/MensRights02/12/13 02:29 AM
7

The most vocal feminists are just the most honest about disliking/having no compassion for men. Most others just deny it while their actions clearly state they feel the same way.
/r/MensRights02/12/13 02:28 AM
4

We just have to agree that there are things that are unacceptable for a human to do to another person and it has nothing to do with gender. Well yea, if feminist did this it would be a basic start. Then they would have to stop spreading misinformation about the rates of perpetration by gender, and stop selectively helping women and hurting men and maybe we could reach a common ground. Talk to feminists.
/r/MensRights02/12/13 02:26 AM
1

Sometimes generalizations are correct, especially when they are based on labels that people choose to use.
/r/MensRights02/12/13 02:23 AM
3

Yea, buy feminism as a movement doesn't, since it does nothing to advocate for that, or even acknowledge that that was ever a disadvantage for men.
/r/MensRights02/12/13 02:23 AM
2

Now could the civil rights movement find common ground with racists? By the racists becoming less so. Feminism, as that post makes clear, is not about equality at all and so in order to find common ground feminists need to stop being against men.
/r/MensRights02/12/13 01:53 AM
-1

There isn't really a legitimate use of the word creep.
/r/MensRights02/12/13 01:49 AM
2

This catalog isn't really that problematic on it's own, only when taken in the context of what is going on in Sweden is it such a problem. And we should be telling boys and girls that they are allowed to play with toys that the other gender typically play with, not deny that the genders have different preferences.
/r/MensRights30/11/13 11:13 PM
3

I think we as a society are somewhat in denial about how different men/women and boys/girls are. Sure, not everyone is the same, but there is nothing wrong with considering the tastes of the majority and advertising to them. Doing so doesn't necessarily come with a hostile attitude towards anyone different.
/r/MensRights30/11/13 11:10 PM
2

No, if they did the kiddies wouldn't have to be told to play with this or that, they would naturally gravitate towards doing so. They don't.
/r/MensRights30/11/13 06:23 AM
6

There have been boys who were entirely raised as girls and they still exhibited "male" characteristics even though they didn't know they were male. The experiment has been done.
/r/MensRights30/11/13 05:38 AM
5

No you see, the way the doctors look at boys and girls right after they are born makes them choose different toys. /s
/r/MensRights30/11/13 03:05 AM
2

See few feminists will admit to holding these beliefs when in discussions, because they typically avoid confrontation. But they support organizations that spread these beliefs and spread these ideas pretty constantly when not directly confronted. Just look at any feminist forum and how easily they ban anyone who even tries to address the male side of the issues.
/r/MensRights30/11/13 02:58 AM
2

Ah, more unsupported statements. Great. Do you have any evidence for a change?
/r/MensRights30/11/13 01:49 AM
9

It has been tried, and it largely failed. Feminists don't accept this though and so what they end up doing is forcing what ends up being typical female behaviors on guys, which is in my mind akin to child abuse.
/r/MensRights30/11/13 12:43 AM
7

No, girls are predisposed to want to do things associated with homemaking and raising children. What those things happen to be is cultural, but whatever the cultural requirements of that role is what girls will want to play with.
/r/MensRights29/11/13 11:40 PM
5

We can't be more like Sweden because boys and girls are naturally different and pretending otherwise, like this catalog does, is the height of stupidity.
/r/MensRights29/11/13 10:30 PM
-1

A lot of having game is exhibiting typical masculine qualities. And even if it is possible to not do any of the above by being exceptionally good with women, women typically prefer the guys who do do the above, so there is still a lot of pressure on men to do it.
/r/MensRights28/11/13 02:42 AM
-3

Not playing sports, crying, wearing makeup openly, not paying for dates and not making the first move will have him drowning in pussy as well!
/r/MensRights27/11/13 10:02 PM
1

And being that being "seen to be more athletic" is not nearly the advantage as "Not being seen as likely to be a criminal" that hardly helps improve their standing in society. Which matters why? One of the problems I have with the concept of privilege is that it always seems geared towards turning things into a contest and thereby justifying discrimination against the perceived "privileged" group. Who says a poor white kid in the inner cities slightly higher (if it even exists) chance of not bei…
/r/MensRights27/11/13 08:15 PM
1

Well fine then, being black means you are seen to be more athletic when you play sports. Black privilege. The point is each race has advantages and disadvantages. Again, You're failing to understand how this works in an academic setting, only reinforcing my complaint about the MRM and the major problem we face as a movement. And you are failing to explain it or address any of my points, other than finding fault with a single example.
/r/MensRights27/11/13 07:06 PM
1

The point is that with a common term, people don't have to detail out every piece. So it isn't explaining anything, it is just basically saying "due to social forces/pressures". How is inventing a word something that a field can use as an accomplishment? Aside from that, it is incorrect in many cases because the term patriarchy tends to be used in ways that deny innate differences, and exaggerates the effect of social forces. Typically the question "why aren't men and women the same" is answered…
/r/MensRights27/11/13 06:19 PM
-4

The problem for the guy is that if he acts feminine he will have difficulty getting laid.
/r/MensRights27/11/13 05:58 PM
1

I agree with you. I don't support attempts to "out-victim" the feminists.
/r/MensRights27/11/13 05:52 PM
1

Why do men feel the need to protect women at their own expense? Patriarchy. Why do Men shy away from reporting violence against them? Patriarchy. How is this explaining anything? All it is doing is naming some behavioral trends. If you go beyond the statement you actually made and say that patriarchy is "a system of gender roles" you still aren't really saying much. When you consider all the things that usually are associated with patriarchy, such as gender roles being socially constructed, men …
/r/MensRights27/11/13 05:51 PM
1

You could argue that, which is in effect just arguing that companies are stupid. If you really believe this however you should be able to go into business and destroy the competition, and the fact that no-one so far has done this indicates to men that it isn't just that everyone in business allows their own biases to harm the profit of the companies.
/r/MensRights27/11/13 04:17 PM
1

If you agree with the idea that companies primarily care about profit then it is a good argument, but that idea can of course be challenged.
/r/MensRights27/11/13 03:52 PM
1

I know people who have been diagnosed with ADHD who have no trouble concentrating extremely hard on things that they like (in this case music and performing it). So the diagnostic procedure you are saying is used isn't used in all cases. Given that attention is based in neurology, this is a neurological inability. Our whole minds are based in neurology. You can say that any trait or quality of a person is a neurological trait. It doesn't really mean much to say that however. Once we get past the…
/r/MensRights27/11/13 04:43 AM
2

Well yea, it exists in that there are people who have more difficulty concentrating, but this is just an arbitrary label we have chosen to place on these people and not reflective of some sort of real qualitative difference.
/r/MensRights27/11/13 03:21 AM
1

There seems to be very little actual evidence of direct discrimination in that meta study, although I didn't read it fully. The I have only seen two studies that actually show discrimination against women in hiring practices, and one was quite flawed. I don't do conspiracies. No conspiracy is needed, just normal human tendencies to only publish things that are going to get attention and that they believe are correct. And you must surely be aware of the lack of attention to the facts displayed by…
/r/MensRights27/11/13 03:17 AM
1

How can you tell that something is a neurological inability instead of just not happening from looking at the brain? You can't. So professionals take a certain number of people and decide that they can't, and then label it depression or ADHD or whatever.
/r/MensRights27/11/13 03:17 AM
22

Or just stand by the principal of innocent until proven guilty and then the law does not become something from which innocent people need to protect themselves.
/r/MensRights27/11/13 02:43 AM
1

All I am saying that is if they did that study enough times eventually they would get the results they wanted. Unless we think that studies that don't show discrimination get published I see little reason to think that this study is not just the result of repeated testing until you get the result you want. I am also suspicious because I have seen very few such studies published. The only other one with similar methodology I saw had some somewhat troubling issues with it.
/r/MensRights27/11/13 02:41 AM
3

What does it actually mean for ADHD to exist? Of course the brains of people who act differently are going to be different, but the only way it is a disorder is because medical professionals decide that a certain distance from the normal is now a medical problem.
/r/MensRights27/11/13 02:37 AM
1

Even if they can prove that ADHD brains are different that means nothing. Of course the brains of people who act and think differently will be different.
/r/MensRights27/11/13 02:34 AM
1

You can't prove that something is a real disorder because the brains of the people with it are different. For example sadness is a certain brain state, and so you could say that everyone who is sad ever has a disorder, when in reality sadness is totally normal. Disorders like ADHD are just created by defining normal and then choosing to diagnose everyone who falls a certain distance from it, not based upon any real methodology at all.
/r/MensRights27/11/13 02:33 AM
1

You need to take any statistics with a grain of salt if there is demonstrated bias in the field. Statisticians say most medical studies are probably artifacts of chance, and the likelihood that a result is due to chance goes up as the bias in the field increases and in fields with no standard methodology, both of which apply in a huge way to the field of gender issues.
/r/MensRights27/11/13 02:13 AM
1

Those could be the reasons indirectly, by forcing men to value pay over quality of life when choosing jobs in order to attract mates.
/r/MensRights27/11/13 12:13 AM
0

If you had ever had a reasonable discussion on the wage gap you would know why the figure you posted is misleading.
/r/MensRights27/11/13 12:11 AM
1

So hundreds of women's studies departments only managed to publish a single study showing gender discrimination with a sample size of under 500? To me that is actually evidence against the point of view being considered, since I highly doubt studies that don't find discrimination get published, and if you do enough studies you will get a result just due to randomness.
/r/MensRights27/11/13 12:09 AM
2

You have said that these factors don't effect this case, you haven't really shown it. And in any case a single example shows nothing.
/r/MensRights27/11/13 12:05 AM
5

If you actually believe women are paid 70% of what men are for the same work open an all female company and demolish the competition. But in reality what would happen is that you would learn why women are typically paid less.
/r/MensRights27/11/13 12:04 AM
116

Don't teach young men to get a yes text before sex, teach women to not falsely accuse people of rape.
/r/MensRights27/11/13 12:01 AM
0

Since a lot of what is called rape today is just choices made by women that they regret I think many "rape" victims deserve to be blamed.
/r/MensRights26/11/13 07:20 PM
30

The same symptoms of someone sitting through a boring/awfully taught lesson.
/r/MensRights26/11/13 07:17 PM
2

I don't think it is even that the boys are less mature and rowdy, it is just that they aren't as likely to just shut up and do what they are told and don't focus as easily on lessons devoid of interest. There is a lot more to maturity than sitting still.
/r/MensRights26/11/13 07:17 PM
1

In terms of domestic violence it is pretty clear that women are violent with their partners more. It does seem that men are more likely to seriously hurt their partners, although those statistics could still be misleading for several reasons. But it is pretty clear that women aren't injured by men in any sort of power struggle but because men are simply stronger, and so when they happen to lose it the consequences can be more serious. Rape is sort of a different story. Feminists and most women t…
/r/MensRights26/11/13 02:38 AM
2

But that same argument can be used by anyone with an educated opinion, including ones contrasting ours. It can, but only one person will be right. How we determine who is right (or most likely to be right) is more complicated, but in the case of mensrights issues it really isn't. Things like "women are paid less than men for the same work", men oppressed women throughout history, and many many other aspects of the anti-male beliefs that are so prevalent in our society can very easily be debunked…
/r/MensRights25/11/13 03:51 AM
2

What I'm saying, if it makes sense this time, is that people on average tend not to critically examine their own beliefs, so expecting everyone to do so is holding them to an unreasonably high standard. But who says we are dealing with a binary examine your beliefs/don't examine your beliefs dichotomy? Not examining your beliefs and just doing what you want without thinking about other people is generally a bad thing, and the more you do it, the worse you are behaving. Just because people genera…
/r/MensRights25/11/13 01:54 AM
9

That isn't quite true. Women, in my experience generally expect men to make the moves, and they typically show interest in much less direct ways.
/r/MensRights25/11/13 01:46 AM
1

You don't really seem making a logical point. Are you saying that because in general people don't critically examine their own beliefs it is okay to not critically examine your own beliefs and behaviors? Because that doesn't really follow. Are you trying to say that women are just like everyone else (in that they don't critically examine their own behaviors)? Because you can't just say that, on the face of it men constantly worry about women's interests and women also worry about their own inter…
/r/MensRights24/11/13 11:41 PM
21

Well then the question becomes why are men generally expected to ask the women out?
/r/MensRights24/11/13 11:36 PM
1

All you are saying is that many people act badly, which is really neither here nor there. Yea, sure, many people misbehave, but that doesn't change the fact that men generally look out for other people's interests and women look out for their own. Willful ignorance is no excuse in a court of law and it is no excuse here. Also, in my experience women will continue to hold anti-male beliefs even after being proven wrong. The only way you can excuse these behaviors is if women are just incredibly s…
/r/MensRights24/11/13 10:59 PM
1

I think the same point apply to women who aren't really feminist but hold gynocentric and anti-male beliefs. You still have a duty to critically examine your own behavior and consider other peoples desires and wants something I rarely seen done by women regarding men.
/r/MensRights24/11/13 10:45 PM
1

Basically just find something feminists are doing, and it is almost certainly discriminating against men in some way.
/r/MensRights24/11/13 10:32 PM
1

It doesn't matter if they are doing it consciously. We all have a certain duty to analyze our own behavior to be sure we aren't acting unethically. Also, if you ignore and try to silence people who draw attention to the fact you are acting entitled then the ignorance is willful and so in no way excuses or mitigates anything. This is just good old fashioned gynocentrism, it's been a token part of our society for decades and held by both genders. Men care about other people, women care about thems…
/r/MensRights24/11/13 10:27 PM
1

Not relevant here. It totally is. Putting others before yourself is a trait of ethical people, putting yourself before others is a trait of entitled cunts. Like what? The idea that men oppress women, ideas regarding the fact that men should be expected to do exactly what women want or be shamed (creeps), women and children first ideas, and so on. The most common reason I have seen women not be feminists is because they still want men to do things like pay for dates.
/r/MensRights24/11/13 08:00 PM
0

There is a huge difference between a man identifying as feminist and a woman doing so. A woman doing so is campaigning for special treatment for herself, a man is helping other people (in his mind, anyway). I would also be curious to see the numbers among younger women. Also, I have found that most women, even those that don't identify as feminist still support a lot of the anti-male ideas of feminism.
/r/MensRights24/11/13 06:48 PM
2

You could say that. The differences is that most guys don't support a movement that advocates for special privileges for them in more and more situations.
/r/MensRights24/11/13 04:57 PM
6

It's like when someone helps bullies pick on everyone else just so that they can be picked on slightly less than the other people in the class.
/r/MensRights24/11/13 04:55 PM
9

What an idiot for standing up for what he believes in.
/r/MensRights23/11/13 10:10 PM
10

It is totally made up to support an anti-male agenda. I think biased is not the correct term because it usually isn't used to refer to outright lies.
/r/MensRights23/11/13 10:08 PM
1

I would define creepy as behavior that violates someone else's personal space with a potentially malicious intent. I don't really think this is an acceptable definition because peoples personal space is in some sense obviously violated when they have sex. The issues is whether someone wants the attention or not, and whether the guy ought to/should know that the "violation" was wanted/unwanted. Without asking the question "how could the guy have know what he did was not welcome?" the word creepy …
/r/MensRights21/11/13 12:47 AM
1

How would you define creepy? I for one make a point to only call ANYone creepy This statement is not really meaningful unless you can define what it means to "truly be a creep". I have never met a woman who can give a definition other than "this is something I thing is creepy", which is really no guide to anyone who is trying to avoid being "creeping women out". He had sex with me when I was too drunk to remember anything, and we were definitely -not- at that level of the relationship yet. THAT …
/r/MensRights21/11/13 12:01 AM
2

Or, you know we could incentivize women to have relationships with the men they have children with so the men can provide money and a father figure (which is arguably more important) to the children. Crazy idea huh? So you've justified women's poverty as both non concerning and voluntary. I have said the figures on women's poverty are misleading because they don't count for child support, alimony, and a few other sources of money that women disproportionately get. Also child support is not taken…
/r/MensRights18/11/13 11:38 PM
1

It is overblown for men here.
/r/MensRights18/11/13 11:30 PM
3

What are you suggesting? That the government pay women for doing housework? And why do we only include housework as "work". Why not include working out, and every possible way people choose to spend their time that has some value to society. Oh right, because people choose to do those activities for no pay, because they find them rewarding. All I see is excuses. Excuses for what? Women get paid less because they work at their jobs less. This the only sensible way for it to be. Your conjecture th…
/r/MensRights18/11/13 03:53 AM
3

Personally I don't think living in a slightly messy house would be that much of a problem for the nations children. Which partners are paying women for their housework? This isn't the 1960s. The ones who contribute more financially to the relationship. The women contribute more in terms of cleaning and the men more in terms of money, meaning the women in effect exchange their cleaning for money. So in effect it is the 1960s. Must we disregard at least a quarter of sole parented families in your …
/r/MensRights18/11/13 03:44 AM
1

Sexual violence is really overblown for both genders, and most of it is a result of people not following ever more absurd feminist standards for what counts as consent. That is why people don't care. If you want to reduce real sexual violence stop feminists from blurring the lines and clarify what actually is rape.
/r/MensRights18/11/13 03:06 AM
3

When we talk about working we are talking about at a job. If women like to keep their houses cleaner that is their business, and it isn't on everyone else to subsidize that. Or should companies pay women more because they do more housecleaning? In fact though women actually do get paid for housework in effect by there partners. But wealth transfers from men to women of that nature are not included in any income or poverty statistics.
/r/MensRights18/11/13 03:04 AM
3

If a man assumes responsibility for a child and the woman agrees to it he has responsibility for life. I don't really see how this is so difficult. Yeah, when they think it's protected. Apparently women are too dumb to check if a guy is wearing a condom or not. Personally I believe women can handle that task, but perhaps I have a higher opinion of women than you do. Or if they're raped. Yea, let's refer to a rare crime as if it's relevant to this discussion. You said women have the majority of r…
/r/MensRights18/11/13 02:19 AM
3

I should hope that government censuses don't think earning less than men means living in poverty. Do you have a source for the actual claim that you made, rather than the unrelated claim you seem to think is the same thing? Women aren't working less. http://www.oecd.org/els/family/43367847.pdf Either you are totally ignorant of the basic facts of what you are talking about, or you are lying. Maybe do some basic research before acting like you know what you are talking about. Also, a quick hint, …
/r/MensRights18/11/13 02:06 AM
5

I'm glad to know you think that mothers should be favored in child custody hearings over fathers, since the child is clearly mostly theirs. There really shouldn't be a debate about this at all: children should go with mothers because they're mothers have the majority of responsibility for them. /s Obviously if the man has assumed the role of a father it is a different story. I'm going to make women suffer for every asshole who doesn't use proper protection either out of lazinessor malice!" Women…
/r/MensRights18/11/13 01:44 AM
-1

Are you sure it is not because those types of anti-female sexism are in fact made up like the vast majority of claims of anti-female sexism?
/r/MensRights18/11/13 01:23 AM
2

less than men =/= poverty. Typical feminist lie. If you prioritize quality of life over money, as women do, you sacrifice pay. You can't expect to work less and end up with the same amount of money. Life involves trade offs. Also, the fact that women retire with less doesn't mean they have less to spend in retirement. Women end up with a large amount of money through alimony and by inheriting the wealth of their husbands who typically die earlier than they do.
/r/MensRights18/11/13 01:15 AM
2

I don't really care if it is biased or not, I care if it is true.
/r/MensRights18/11/13 12:16 AM
2

Women have the majority of the control over whether they get pregnant, so they should bear the majority of the responsibility for caring for a child that they cause to be brought into the world. Your body, your choice, your responsibility. He now has zero responsibility for any pregnancy he causes. Just like women nowadays. But somehow I doubt you have a problem with this.
/r/MensRights18/11/13 12:14 AM
2

It never worked for feminists and it won't work for you. Clearly you don't know what you are talking about if you don't realize that feminists being actively dishonest is a large part of the reason feminism is so successful and men's issues get no attention. Women die poor? Oh that's their fault. Yeah right mate. This is a new one. Did you just make it up on the spot? I was actually taking about the wage gap, which can be shown to be due to women's choices. But I doubt you are interested in real…
/r/MensRights18/11/13 12:12 AM
2

Which is easily dismissed by saying that you can't force men to be fathers and so you have to force women to accept the responsibility for their own actions. Also, more men might be fathers if women had to actually listen to what they say in order to get financial support.
/r/MensRights17/11/13 07:54 PM
4

It strikes me that you don't know very much about the history of the MRM and don't have much experience talking about these issues in real life. If you did you would realize that men's rights are not a taboo topic because of anything MRAs do, but because of feminist hostility to the idea of men having issues and because people innately don't care as much about men and are more threatened by them. So your advice isn't really helpful at all. In fact every MRA group that has worried about not offen…
/r/MensRights17/11/13 07:51 PM
6

He obviously does not mean personal appearance or cooking magazines, he means magazines that deal with any serious or political issues. Tony Abbot is the minister for women's affairs in my country and I'll be damned if him or you could list even three of the top issues affecting women (that you've heard so much about). Well it depends if you mean real issues, or made up issues like being paid less for different/easier work and not getting things like free birth control or having people not alway…
/r/MensRights17/11/13 07:30 PM
3

We don't draw a line, we look at each drive and determine whether it is driving us to good or bad behavior.
/r/MensRights14/11/13 12:47 AM
3

Good one.
/r/MensRights10/11/13 06:31 PM
1

I really don't need your faux social advice that is really just entitlement. Most people dislike certain behaviors. Yea, and the reasonable one are mature enough to know that their dislikes don't dictate what everyone else should do, and also recognize that people who don't do exactly what they prefer are not assholes. But not the vast majority of people who call others creeps. not validly creeping people the fuck out Again, no such thing.
/r/MensRights08/11/13 04:16 AM
1

I love how you act like you are somehow an expert on what is good social behavior without offering any justification other than your gender. you shouldn't feel forced. What you feel is your own business and not the job of other people to worry about. Even if we accept that you shouldn't have to talk to anyone you don't want too, there is no reason to be a dick about it and make the person you don't want to talk to out to be a jerk, which is what happens when the word creep is used.
/r/MensRights08/11/13 04:00 AM
1

If there is some unresolved issue between the two of you. For example if an ex-girlfriend has taken a lot of your stuff or otherwise done something that needs to be addressed. But regardless, having the discussion in terms of "creepy" is messed up. For example, if someone comes to take to me after a class and I don't want to talk I could well say "excuse me, I don't want to talk to you" and if they continue or call me an asshole act all justified because they don't have a right to talk to me. Bu…
/r/MensRights08/11/13 03:08 AM
1

I don't think saying they are universally creepy is really a meaningful statement, because it only really means that all women are bothered by them. If you want to argue that they are universally not okay or immoral then that is a different story. You never have the right to touch q stranger's body without their consent. You never have the right to try to follow someone home because you find them attracted. If they ask you to leave them alone, you should leave them alone. Do you agree? No. Askin…
/r/MensRights08/11/13 01:51 AM
1

We can still have the discussion in terms of actual real things other than the feelings of a single person. God forbid we allow people to get away with behavior that isn't exactly what some women desire! The very fact that you think people called creeps are somehow to blame is ridiculous to me.
/r/MensRights08/11/13 01:10 AM
0

Now go advocate for men's issues in real life and you will understand why so many people here are anti-feminist. r/feminism accurately represents feminism in the real world, and they do their best to prevent male issues from getting attention. Defeating feminism is necessary to make any progress.
/r/MensRights08/11/13 12:44 AM
2

The fact that men use it (in my experience rarely) does not change the fact that the word implies a single persons feelings determine what is moral and therefore the word is extremely problematic.
/r/MensRights08/11/13 12:31 AM
2

Creepy only means "behavior from men regarding sex or relationships that women/a woman doesn't like". So of course there is always going to be behavior that is seen as creepy because women are always going to try to make their dislike into something objective so they feel justified in ridiculing people. If you want to have a discussion about what is okay sexual behavior your personal feelings don't matter that much in the discussion, and using the word creep implies that your own feelings solely…
/r/MensRights08/11/13 12:26 AM
2

Great. You listed things you don't like. Good job. Unfortunately you don't get to decide what words mean, they way they are commonly used determines that.
/r/MensRights08/11/13 12:15 AM
3

Creepy just means "I am a woman and don't like this" so there is really no legitimate use of the word.
/r/MensRights08/11/13 12:11 AM
1

You don't get to be the authority on what is and isn't creepy objectively. The way the word is used now it basically just means "male who makes reciprocated romantic/sexual gesture". Whether some guys actually go over some kind of objective line is sort of irrelevant because the word is not used primarily to refer to those guys. touching her without her consent, etc Happens in every romantic comedy, where it is just fine. Creepy is just based upon whether the woman likes a guy, and is almost ent…
/r/MensRights08/11/13 12:10 AM
3

I lack the capacity for double-think, self deception, and ability to ignore logic in order to justify my beliefs that you seem to possess.
/r/MensRights01/11/13 02:29 AM
4

You might be able to get feminists to say they agree with you in conversations in person, buy you will never get them to change their behavior or actually change their view. The reason is that feminists are cowards, and only agree to avoid conflict.
/r/MensRights01/11/13 02:05 AM
3

Thanks for admitting your beliefs are not justified and your only argument is based upon misrepresenting my position so gracefully.
/r/MensRights01/11/13 02:03 AM
4

Moving the goalposts I see. No-where did I say that all boys were like that. Boys generally fit certain traits, and we should make sure that school is helping people with both types of traits, especially when there isn't a good reason to not do so. You can't just stereotype it. It is a fact that boys have trouble sitting still compared to girls and like reading different things. I guess stating facts is stereotyping now.
/r/MensRights01/11/13 01:35 AM
2

And you clearly haven't read the article that you are posting a comment under, since it provides several examples of differences. You also must live under a rock if you think the genders behave the same. No-one thinks this. If the genders behaved the same we would not have a discussion about whether gender differences are innate or socialization.
/r/MensRights01/11/13 01:23 AM
2

Says who? All the evidence I have seen points the other way.
/r/MensRights01/11/13 12:24 AM
0

Being quiet and attentive is female? Males are by nature violent, unfocused, creatures? No, neither of these things. Rather, in general boys have certain types of behavior in school and girls have other types of behavior. I am not deciding what the platonic nature of male and female is. The reality is that there are students who are unfocused, of both genders, being held to a standard that is not somehow "female" in nature, but a standard of how people are expected to behave. Except that boys an…
/r/MensRights31/10/13 10:46 PM
-8

Except that boys generally are more rowdy and unfocused and girls are generally more quite and attentive. I don't really see how saying true facts can be idiotic. Strict gender roles and traita are a thing of the past. You can pretend anything if you ignore reality.
/r/MensRights31/10/13 07:31 PM
7

You are only focusing on the negative aspects of the male behavior. Also, schools should not just be grading people on memorizing facts with no interest just because the teacher said so. They also tend to focus on things that appeal more to female interests than to male ones, which leads to men being less motivated than women.
/r/MensRights31/10/13 06:11 PM
7

It's a bit insulting as well, as it insinuates that a male who is not rowdy, unable to control themselves, is not acting as a true male Not at all. It is just suggesting that men in general have certain traits. This does not imply anything about what being male requires or should be. It's a stereotypical view at best, and holds no water. There are huge differences between the way boys and girls act. Denying this is just idiotic.
/r/MensRights31/10/13 06:07 PM
1

Personally I just use the male "rape" statistics to make a point and show the absurdity of high date rape statistics. I dislike it when MRA's seriously suggest that male rape by women is a huge problem.
/r/MensRights31/10/13 06:03 PM
0

Sure you were. Just an innocent question and not an attempt to prove to yourself MRA's are wrong so you can circlejerk about it in againstmensrights.
/r/MensRights31/10/13 04:23 AM
1

He is being serious and is right.
/r/MensRights31/10/13 04:17 AM
1

The fact is that in the vast majority of "rapes" counted as rapes today the rape is due to things like feeling confused, being drunk, being pressured, and not being explicitly asked for consent. By these standards men are raped as much as women. Men are not raped violently as much as women, but these rapes are very rare. Also consider the fact that many men will never hit a woman, allowing the woman to use physical aggression without him having any way to fight back.
/r/MensRights31/10/13 04:12 AM
1

Basically the fact that they are the limiting factor in reproduction.
/r/MensRights31/10/13 04:09 AM
0

I don't really see the point in dividing things up into gender and genedder expression. It just seems to muddy the waters. What determines if a trait is a gender trait or not a gender trait? It seems to me that what you are really just referring to is behavior. And of course behavior is not solely determined by biology, it is determined jointly by biology and the situations we find ourselves in. And here is the obligatory acknowledgement that gender expression, like gender identity and sexuality…
/r/MensRights31/10/13 01:48 AM
2

And until you've got evidence to prove that there is, I don't see anything wrong with believing that individual difference and cultural conditioning supercede the effects of sex on gender expression. You mean other than evolutionary theory? If you accept our brains are effected by evolution you basically are forced to accept that there are gender differences in behavior.
/r/MensRights31/10/13 12:10 AM
1

I am really not getting how your distinction between gender identity and expression allows you to justify your belief that gender behavior is not primarily due to biology, especially in the light of people like david reimer. Maybe try to rephrase it in a clearer way? The overriding message should be "do what you want!" not "do what girls/boys do!" Yea, sure. The problem arises when people assume any gender difference in behavior is due to people being told the second, which leads to them trying …
/r/MensRights31/10/13 12:09 AM
5

Like I said to someone else, not all games are competitive/aggressive/etc. (Zelda, Final Fantasy, Portal, Metal Gear Solid...), and even the ones that are have other draws (The single player campaign in CoD4 was pretty great, the characters in League of Legends are visually appealing, you can have a fulfilling WoW career without ever PvPing). Who says competition simulation has to be against other people? Almost all of these games involve killing people or competing against them in other ways, e…
/r/MensRights30/10/13 11:52 PM
3

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2005/01/dont_worry_your_pretty_little_head.html Do you think I should take the word of strangers on the internet over a multitude of studies? You should only take the word of studies if they actually demonstrate what they claim too. So yes, there are a few social factors that might effect girls performance on math tests, but that does nothing to show that there is not a large biological component.
/r/MensRights30/10/13 11:35 PM
2

but I'm still of the opinion that individual personality differences and cultural conditioning supercede the effects of sex hormones on a person's preferences. Why, given cases like David Reimer? Regardless, gender norms (and expectations of gender expression) are harmful because they confine individuals to certain scripts of behavior, and alienate those who naturally stray from those scripts. What would you do about them though? If everyone acts as they want too there will be certain more commo…
/r/MensRights30/10/13 11:30 PM
3

Tran-sexual people don't support the idea that gender isn't biological at all. If gender is a social construct why did these people who were raised as one gender not end up like everyone else of that gender. In David Reimers case it was because his brain was biologically male.
/r/MensRights30/10/13 11:26 PM
4

It doesn't make people play video games or hate pink any more than estrogen makes women shave their legs. It doesn't do so directly, but I think it is highly likely that testosterone makes men like video games more because it is a means of faking aggression, risk taking and competition. In the same way women shave their legs because it is a means of looking pretty and young, a preferences which I think could be innate in women.
/r/MensRights30/10/13 11:23 PM
1

It is not that men are predisposed to like pants, it is that men are predisposed to like the things pants stand for and are associated with. If for some reason dressed where the most convenient to work in men would probably prefer them.
/r/MensRights30/10/13 11:21 PM
-1

Secondly, the brain is not purely "hardwired"; while there are many lower functions that evolved due to specific environmental and social pressures, the brain itself is highly malleable and adaptable to both socialization and biological pressures throughout a persons life. The claim that is being made when people say that gender is biological is that when exposed to the same stimuli male and female brains will react differently. Not that socialization and upbringing have nothing to do with how p…
/r/MensRights30/10/13 11:20 PM
4

There being some social reasons that might cause women to be worse at math does not mean that you have eliminated biology as a factor, or even shown that socialization is the largest factor involved. You also have to take any academic study on these issues with a grain of salt, because you get fired for suggesting the opposing point of view.
/r/MensRights30/10/13 11:13 PM
1

These effects, I think, take a backseat to cultural conditioning- guys aren't biologically opposed to wearing dresses, just as girls aren't biologically opposed to doing math. This is kind of a silly argument. Of course biology doesn't determine that guys, for example, like blue and the things that are associated with blue, but once the meanings of the terms are established biology does determine what each gender prefers. Boys don't have an innate preference for the shape of guns, they have a pr…
/r/MensRights30/10/13 11:08 PM
1

But if you are exposed to the arguments that should demonstrate something and still delude yourself by abandoning intellectual honesty the situation is different. I think that is what occurs for the vast majority of feminists.
/r/MensRights29/10/13 09:50 PM
3

Feminists don't have to be against men's issues in order to care about women's issues but it is because men having problems that are not self caused goes against feminist theory.
/r/MensRights29/10/13 02:55 AM
-8

I say call a spade a spade.
/r/MensRights29/10/13 01:48 AM
7

Except that women are far less likely to be victims of violent crime than men are, so their greater fear isn't warranted.
/r/MensRights29/10/13 01:47 AM
34

Not even. To feminists equality means equal outcome whenever women are behind, women ahead whenever they are ahead.
/r/MensRights29/10/13 01:45 AM
6

Since feminists are against basically every men's issue of course it exists in opposition to feminism.
/r/MensRights29/10/13 01:39 AM
1

I have only seen that brought up as a counter to the feminist point that women are paid less for the same work or to their point that men have everything wonderful. There are certain jobs that each sex is just better suited for.
/r/MensRights29/10/13 01:38 AM
3

I have come to believe that there is little practical difference between willful ignorance in ones own self interest and maliciousness. The only difference is that the maliciousness is more honest and the people who practice it are smarter.
/r/MensRights28/10/13 10:22 PM
5

The difference is that one is somewhat driven and tested by reality whereas the other is entirely designed around the incorrect ideas of a bunch of politicians and bureaucrats.
/r/MensRights28/10/13 10:18 PM
-5

The civil rights movement would be stupid to be inclusive of the KKK and the MRM would be equally stupid to be inclusive of feminism and feminists. If you aren't a feminist there is nothing to be upset by. If you are, learn more about the movement and be cured.
/r/MensRights28/10/13 10:12 PM
4

I didn't say a backlash against feminism didn't exist, just that it was largely insignificant and not, as you put it "insane". There were far more men that supported women's issues than men that fought against them. It's great that you can delude yourself into thinking you won because of several cartoons against the suffragette movement, but they hardly provide evidence that men only advocate for things that benefit them, and the fact that the largest opposition to the suffragette movement was m…
/r/MensRights28/10/13 10:10 PM
2

He provided it. It is the first sentence of the wikipedia article on the anti-suffragette movement.
/r/MensRights28/10/13 10:06 PM
5

Anti-suffragism was a political movement composed mainly of women From the article on the anti-suffragette movement you linked. I am pretty sure I just won.
/r/MensRights28/10/13 09:40 PM
2

Fixed that for you.
/r/MensRights28/10/13 09:38 PM
6

You are right only if not getting what you want right away=insane backlash.
/r/MensRights28/10/13 08:46 PM
0

I am not making assumptions, I have extensively studied the behavior of feminists and found through this extensive study that they are not in favor of equality. If you stopped being so naive and trusting you would find the same thing.
/r/MensRights28/10/13 08:45 PM
0

Can you point me to some of these mythical feminist that are working for equality? Because I have yet to see evidence of their existence. I see many feminists claiming to work for equality, but none actually acting as if they are (other than perhaps a few feminists who are ostracized from the movement).
/r/MensRights28/10/13 08:35 PM
0

You assuming that feminists are actually working towards equality because they say so. If you actually looked at what they advocate for you would find that they are not for equality.
/r/MensRights28/10/13 08:29 PM
6

"Insane backlash against the suffragettes" you mean how they were basically not given what they wanted right away? They weren't even held accountable for the crimes they committed in the name of their cause, they merely whined and got what they wanted. This insane backlash consisted almost entirely of not giving them what they wanted right away, which occurred at a time when many women didn't want what the suffragettes were pushing. The movement you're a part of right this very moment started of…
/r/MensRights28/10/13 08:27 PM
8

So 50 years after feminism has existed for a long time and gone far beyond advocating for equality some small percentage of men start fighting against it (and there are more feminist men than MRA's still), and this means that men are only looking out for themselves?
/r/MensRights28/10/13 08:15 PM
4

Feminism says it is advocating for equality FTFY Other than that I am not sure what your comment is trying to say.
/r/MensRights28/10/13 08:14 PM
3

But before feminism became the dominant force in society men supported it.
/r/MensRights28/10/13 06:44 PM
2

It could also be because lifting heavy things is a large part of being in the construction industry as an apprentice, and girls just happen not to be able to do that as well as men.
/r/MensRights28/10/13 05:47 PM
7

How does supporting feminism make men's lives better in the long term? Also note that this is not the reason most men claim to be feminists, so if you believe them then they are supporting feminism because they want to help women.
/r/MensRights28/10/13 05:44 PM
4

Except that men didn't really resits feminism much, there is almost no organized resistance to feminism and huge numbers of men are feminists.
/r/MensRights28/10/13 04:07 PM
1

Well if a certain percentage of women do get drunk and plan to have sex when extremely drunk it does not make sense to say frat boys who want to have sex with drunk women are contributing to rape. Maybe they just want to get with the percentage of women who tend to have wasted sex in a consensual way.
/r/MensRights28/10/13 04:05 PM
9

The fact that they created it to a large extent?
/r/MensRights28/10/13 03:49 PM
1

I don't really think two people deciding to get black out drunk and have sex is really rape. So I don't think applying the term rape culture to that phenomena is correct.
/r/MensRights28/10/13 03:45 PM
1

Yes, clearly when hiring 16 year olds employers make the decision randomly.
/r/MensRights28/10/13 03:38 PM
2

The lack of CEO's isn't indicative of a problem in the same way that the lack of female murder victims relative to male isn't indicative of a problem. There is no reason we should have every statistic 50% by gender.
/r/MensRights28/10/13 03:27 AM
1

Maybe the men are just more qualified than the women?
/r/MensRights28/10/13 03:25 AM
2

So women get paid less because they work less. How is this a problem?
/r/MensRights28/10/13 03:24 AM
1

but there are also groups of dudes that don't really see anything wrong with getting someone totally shitfaced and having sex with them when they don't know where they are. There are also women who do this. Also, there are plenty of women who get drunk purposely to have sex, and who in fact require that men give them alcohol as part of the lead up to sex. Blaming this solely on the men is quite stupid on your part.
/r/MensRights28/10/13 03:17 AM
2

There actually is quite a lot of pro-feminist bias in wikipedia.
/r/MensRights28/10/13 03:11 AM
1

And since when are rights issues only legislative issues?
/r/MensRights27/10/13 04:19 PM
1

I have never heard it. In that context someone would always say man or dude or someone's name in my experience.
/r/MensRights27/10/13 02:27 AM
2

Or maybe it's because modern women are brought up to think men are inferior and that they deserve whatever they want from a partner.
/r/MensRights27/10/13 12:40 AM
2

Choices with consequences are still choices. We don't need to force men to pay for women's choices in order for them to be free.
/r/MensRights27/10/13 12:22 AM
2

There is a huge difference between generalizing members of a self-identified group and generalizing people based upon something over which they have no control.
/r/MensRights27/10/13 12:18 AM
3

That is like saying discrimination by the police against black people isn't a problem because it isn't written down anywhere to arrest them more.
/r/MensRights27/10/13 12:16 AM
2

The MRM does not and has never claimed that it is doing anything other than helping men in the areas where they are at a disadvantage. Feminism claims to be breaking down gender roles for both sexes, and that no other such movement is needed.
/r/MensRights27/10/13 12:14 AM
0

Says the person who just assumes everyone is telling the truth.
/r/MensRights26/10/13 02:16 PM
2

Academics resent the idea of actually having to justify their beliefs to anyone who isn't vetted by other academics beforehand.
/r/MensRights25/10/13 10:14 PM
3

Now go up to the next woman you meet and ask her "Hey guy, how are you doing?" then tell me how gender-neutral her expression looks. I don't think guy is usually used in that way to refer to men.
/r/MensRights25/10/13 10:13 PM
1

The perception of men is damaged no matter what is done. What is needed is to get the message out.
/r/MensRights25/10/13 10:09 PM
1

In order to be socially acceptable you basically need to be anti-male these days. That is what we need to change.
/r/MensRights25/10/13 10:08 PM
0

But people who actually work for equality (the MRM) aren't on the same side as people who only claim to work for equality (feminists).
/r/MensRights25/10/13 10:07 PM
2

Letting women have the same earnings that men do while still having all the lifestyle benefits they receive from the career choices they make is the worst idea ever. How is women choosing to prioritize quality of life at the cost of pay a problem?
/r/MensRights25/10/13 01:47 AM
1

I am saying that any study you show me that claims women are paid less by X amount than men is flawed. If you find me any such study I will show you the errors in it's methodology.
/r/MensRights25/10/13 12:44 AM
3

Most men support affirmative action for women? Huge numbers of men support feminism, and almost no men speak out against it, despite it being totally in their personal interest to do so.
/r/MensRights23/10/13 11:56 PM
12

Except men, which creates huge problems. If you are going to put others before yourself and they put themselves before you you are just going to get more and more screwed over.
/r/MensRights22/10/13 11:18 PM
1

but in my country they have researched the difference in pay with regard to those different choices. Yes, they undoubtedly have accounted for one or two choices, pretended that these are the only choices that effect pay, and then falsely attributed the rest to discrimination rather than to the choices they conveniently forgot to account for. There are many such studies on many countries, and they don't show that women are paid less for the same work at all. If you would like the study I would be…
/r/MensRights22/10/13 11:06 PM
1

Nice.
/r/MensRights22/10/13 02:24 AM
1

He just spit venom at me and every other woman he met all the time just because we were women Maybe it's not just because you are women. Maybe it's because you live in a society where man hate is the mainstream view, men are told they need to do increasingly impossible and personally damaging things in order to get acceptance, and where almost no women speak out against these things. Whether or not you are a feminist you benefit from the societal bias in your favor, and the fact that you have in…
/r/MensRights22/10/13 02:04 AM
2

I think I disagree with you on Affirmative Action being harmful. Even if Affirmative Action wasn't harmful the way feminists apply it is nothing but pure discrimination against men codified into law. For example in Canada affirmative action is actually illegal when if favors men but not when it favors women. So feminist fight for women to have an advantage in every area. This is similar to what they do in education. Men dominate STEM fields, so feminists try to do everything they can to help wom…
/r/MensRights22/10/13 01:50 AM
4

This makes it clear you really don't know anything about gender issues other than lies taught to you by other feminists. Women receive less pay because they make different choices, and anyone who has looked at gender issues while thinking critically and not just looked for sources that fit the feminist narrative should know this.
/r/MensRights22/10/13 01:46 AM
4

How often is the more extreme side in here challenged? How often does the extreme side of the MRM pass laws based upon it's ideology?
/r/MensRights22/10/13 01:42 AM
2

Even if your brief statement is a correct representation of feminist beliefs about patriarchy, (which it isn't), it is incorrect. Men are in positions of power because they have more motivation to be there. It is easy for women to have a lot of sex, but men often need to be rich and famous to have such access, for one example.
/r/MensRights22/10/13 01:33 AM
2

Everyone here has thought about it. You can't explain it because it is hard to put it in words that aren't obviously wrong in front of a hostile crowd.
/r/MensRights22/10/13 01:29 AM
2

nobody would be as passionate as some feminists are about something if it didn't have anything in it. People are very passionate about a lot of things, including ethnic cleansing.
/r/MensRights22/10/13 01:27 AM
1

Whatever feminists may believe deep down is irrelevant, feminist advocacy and public statements almost always act based upon presumptions like the presumption that false accusations are rare or don't happen, and that we should lower the standards of evidence. Whether you personally have these beliefs or just choose to hold them because you believe free abortion is more important than treating men fairly is irrelevant.
/r/MensRights20/10/13 01:25 AM
5

So how does that fit with feminism's insistence that false accusations don't happen and that we should lower the standards of proof for rape and domestic violence?
/r/MensRights20/10/13 01:03 AM
3

Do you have any evidence that focusing on men's rights rather than anti-feminism is a more effective method of advocacy? People have been discussing men's issues for a while yet these issues have only begun to get attention now that people are openly attacking feminism.
/r/MensRights20/10/13 01:00 AM
4

No one is "benefiting" from them. Except the people who get lots of fame, money, and attention/romantic success solely because they are attractive.
/r/MensRights16/10/13 12:24 AM
2

I've seen some of our lead programmers casually make comments about other female developers insinuating they don't have the skills to do something (when they clearly do). Or treat them like they're stupid and minimizing their efforts when they're doing the same things their male peers are doing. This kind of thing happens all the time in a variety of fields, between people of a variety of sexes, and I don't think it is related to gender.
/r/MensRights16/10/13 12:08 AM
0

You are right, it makes us look so bad when we don't repeat the same arguments every time we state a fact.
/r/MensRights14/10/13 12:55 AM
-3

Anti-feminism, not anti women's rights.
/r/MensRights14/10/13 12:54 AM
1

Still though, it is a sign that men are starting to act like a group which in the past they haven't.
/r/MensRights13/10/13 05:27 PM
5

Thinking the MRM is big enough that pop singers cater to us is extremely optimistic.
/r/MensRights13/10/13 03:29 PM
1

I know that's not ideal and I don't think picking up someone at a bar is rape, but it's easier not to risk it. I really think that people ought to be able to tell if they are committing a felony or not. It's not so much having drunk sex that bothers me, it's purposefully getting someone drunk so they will have sex with you because you know they wouldn't sober. There are people who get drunk in order to have sex that they wouldn't when sober, which makes these situations even more unclear, becaus…
/r/MensRights13/10/13 03:34 AM
1

Some very vocal MRAs who have refused to have their tone policed have made a splash, and gotten parts of the message out into the public conciousness. Isn't that what I said? That not having your tone policed leads to being more effective at spreading the message? I'd argue that if you truly love someone, and they are behaving badly and dangerously, and harming themselves and others... to act out of love necessitates trying to fix that behavior, rather than being permissive. Of course. And in th…
/r/MensRights13/10/13 02:07 AM
1

I have trouble with the current vague definitions that people use when it comes to drunk sex. It is often not that easy to tell how drunk someone is, and people react differently to drink. Unless we set some sort of legal limit with guidelines on telling how drunk someone is then I don't think having any drunk sex (of course if you are passed out it is rape) be rape.
/r/MensRights13/10/13 02:05 AM
7

I would caution you to not make him out to be more of a victim than he feels he is. If he is bothered by it a his feelings are legitimate but they are also legitimate if he isn't that bothered by it. This is especially important to worry about since you have experienced the same thing before, and might assume he will react as you have.
/r/MensRights13/10/13 12:06 AM
1

Also, alcohol is a drug. Semantics, but it is. Yes, but you know you are taking it, and so legally you are usually assumed to be responsible for your actions under it, except in the case of women who consent to sex.
/r/MensRights13/10/13 12:01 AM
-3

It's becoming evident to me that I'm being heard, but not listened to, because you clearly have some very heavily established beliefs about how people are. I have often heard people say this when they want to ignore the facts and the logical implications of what they are saying. You can't just get out of the logical implications of your statements this way. If you are in fact doing anything to fight the constant anti-male message feel free to say so, but if you are like the vast majority of peop…
/r/MensRights12/10/13 09:54 PM
6

How so? They just take their bigotry as far as they can take it, and giving them the benefit of the doubt just allows them to take it further. Feminist are paying some small amount of lip service to men's issues now that the MRM is calling them out if they don't. I'm not sure I know what you mean by this. I mean that if you are paying huge amounts of child support to kids you never see, or something else that has similarly ruined your life. I encourage you to understand that this is not even rem…
/r/MensRights12/10/13 09:48 PM
1

But why start a battle that can't be won by either side? Well I didn't start the battle, and getting it so that men and women are treated equally when it comes to the things said about them would be winning the battle. Since women have basically shown they don't care about men's feelings at all I don't really care that much for theirs at this point. There is no solution in fighting fire with fire. It is not really possible to extend the same protection to men's feelings that is extended to women…
/r/MensRights12/10/13 09:42 PM
3

some of the most bitter, angry and rude people out there do becomes this way for a reason, and the less love they find, the more their bitterness grows, and on goes the circle Plenty of people love feminists and hang on their every word. It just makes them worse. I think it's possible to call people out without losing affection for them. Maybe if you haven't really been personally effected by them. She's corrected me on a number of issues, and I have done the same for her. So has she actually ch…
/r/MensRights12/10/13 09:29 PM
-2

but the bottom line is always to at least try to aim for respect. My respect is earned, not given to random people who don't act well at all. Sure, but there is a certain point where open speech just becomes plain awful speech; where it hurts others quite badly Maybe if women had done anything to stop the anti-male rhetoric in the mainstream media every day I might buy this, but now that women have established that it is okay to say whatever you want about men I am going to do the same to women.…
/r/MensRights12/10/13 09:17 PM
4

I don't consider feminist generalizations about men to be a huge problem on their own, only when taken together with the attitude that anything even remotely negative about women or a woman must be censored is it a problem. One way to reach equality is to have everyone able to say what they want about either gender, and it is much more likely that we reach equality this way than by censoring feminist anti-male rhetoric.
/r/MensRights12/10/13 09:06 PM
12

Apparently you can't draw attention to any bad things that a woman does or you are a misogynist.
/r/MensRights12/10/13 09:04 PM
15

and if we'd only be more mindful of our posts and fix it then everyone would love us and we'd be respected. just thought I would add that this has been proven not to be true, and that feminists and other concern trolls will simply move the goal posts once we meet the first of their demands.
/r/MensRights12/10/13 09:03 PM
3

I think you covered it, though, when you mentioned that we should seek equality for both genders. Being able to say negative things about both genders is equality, and is a much easier route to it than stopping people from saying negative things about men. I also think that the "hateful" comments you see here are less hateful than things said every day about men in the mainstream media.
/r/MensRights12/10/13 09:00 PM
6

They merely contribute further to the circlejerk which is a big reason for the current MRA reputation (at least on Reddit) Not really. The most moderate MRA's who are always just intellectual are villified by feminists just as much as the people who don't try to follow the feminist tone police. The only difference is those who don't allow feminists to police their tone are more effective at getting the message across. We should all love women. Loving people who don't deserve it is not a good thi…
/r/MensRights12/10/13 07:34 PM
1

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1225854/Are-date-rape-spiked-drinks-urban-myth.html http://healthland.time.com/2009/10/29/the-real-date-rape-drug/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/6440589/Date-rape-drink-spiking-an-urban-legend.html Google is really hard to use. And it isn't that there is a 50% false claim rate, the rate is close to 100%.
/r/MensRights12/10/13 03:11 PM
-4

There is nothing inherently wrong with one night stands, or relationships starting with sex on a first date. No. But there is something wrong with having such sex while wanting to be able to claim rape in the morning, and/or deluding yourself about what is going on. Date rape does happen. Yes, and women like it, when it turns into a relationship or for whatever reason they don't feel like sluts after. Either date rape is bad or it isn't, and since women seem to like it in many cases is it really…
/r/MensRights12/10/13 01:08 AM
2

women are being beaten and killed for no fucking reason. So are men, often in greater numbers. But somehow that is never a gender issue. Every time a woman is beaten or killed it is somehow seen as a huge problem but when it is men being killed that is somehow just seen as normal.
/r/MensRights10/10/13 12:43 PM
1

What I mean is that whatever men do will be wrong, not that there are no pressures on men.
/r/MensRights10/10/13 02:18 AM
1

I would argue that the box men are expected to fit into is basically non-existent. But I think most of the feminist 'concern' for men and feminist attempts to fight pressures to be masculine are just ways for them to blame men and masculinity, and are not really helping at all. The fact is that society cares a lot more about women than men, and allows them to get away with a lot more when it comes to certain types of behaviors. I think we need to deal with these types of attitudes before we worr…
/r/MensRights09/10/13 11:53 PM
2

I am blaming others because I have evidence that they cause the problems. I haven't see any real evidence that men are harmed primarily by masculinity and pressures to be masculine, which is what you are asserting.
/r/MensRights09/10/13 11:44 PM
10

Yes, but you do need a reason for doing so. Focusing on victims of a certain race or gender without any good reason for doing so is discriminatory in my book. I don't see a good reason why male and female victims of DV shouldn't be dealt with together, for example.
/r/MensRights09/10/13 11:43 PM
2

Listen to this guy - you'll have far more success making convincing cases in favour of specific Men's Rights issues than you will being critical of existing feminist groups and issues. I have found the exact opposite. A lot of men really don't care too much about any "plight of men" but are awefully tired of feminist BS.
/r/MensRights09/10/13 11:30 PM
2

Oh the contrary, this issue doesn't really personally effect me at all. And it is not just extreme feminists who blame men for all problems, mainstream society does so, even you in this thread. You blame men's problems on other men for shaming men into being too masculine.
/r/MensRights09/10/13 11:27 PM
4

Yeah, I think that's shaming someone for acting feminine. It's shaming men for acting in a way that only works for women given the special treatment they receive. There is nothing wrong with being feminine, it is being a entitled bitch that people criticize other men for.
/r/MensRights09/10/13 10:59 PM
3

Sure, a lot of this is perpetuated by other kids but the idea of boys needing to act a certain way definitely comes from somewhere. Yea. Biology probably. This is exactly the kind of message that boys are barraged with from an early age, although obviously not quite as sexualized. And it is only fair to remind boys of this message until it stops being true (which will probably be never). It is extremely unfair to boys to try to get them to be more feminine if it means they will be unsuccessful w…
/r/MensRights09/10/13 10:56 PM
0

In the broad social view boys aren't allowed to – or are quickly "cured of": crying, complaining, thinking things are pretty, singing, dancing, being silly, playing with dolls, kissing, hugging, being weak, being vulnerable, showing any emotion … "girl things". Who is doing this? No-one that I see. What I see is schools stopping boys from any sort of competitive or mock violent play, any sort of physical play or risk taking, and any sort of traditionally masculine behavior. In addition we have f…
/r/MensRights09/10/13 10:17 PM
0

I don't really see how boys are forced to reject feminine aspects of themselves. If anything, I have found the opposite is true, and boys are shamed for traditionally masculine behavior.
/r/MensRights09/10/13 09:48 PM
8

And even if they do happen to women I don't think the MRM would be against helping them, or try to deny that they faced the problem if it was demonstrated that they did.
/r/MensRights09/10/13 09:45 PM
22

I kind of disagree. Focusing on only white victims of cancer, for example, seems like straight up racism unless you can come up with a good reason that white people's cancer needs to be dealt with separately. This is especially true if you have government funding.
/r/MensRights09/10/13 09:43 PM
2

All the reproductive rights stuff that's been going on recently? That's all because of misogynist, religious dickbags in government. Except that something like 40% of women are against abortion. Saying that it is misogynists and calling it a war on women makes men the ones to blame, when in reality many people of both sexes don't agree that abortion should be allowed. You can argue whether it should be allowed or not, but this is in no way a war on women by men, which is how feminist portrayed i…
/r/MensRights09/10/13 09:12 PM
3

Their is a difference between being a fuckwad and actually supporting things that are discriminatory and hateful. If basically every democratic candidate supports discriminatory and hateful ideology you are complicit in supporting that ideology if you vote for them and/or given them money and support. The majority of feminist campaigning is anti-male, so there is really no good reason to call yourself a feminist.
/r/MensRights09/10/13 02:47 AM
2

I guess MRM needs to be very careful it doesn't mirror feminism as that would alienate mainstream support. The mainstream is very anti-male. Just by being fair to men we lose mainstream support. Our only option is to change peoples opinions by spreading the facts.
/r/MensRights09/10/13 01:26 AM
2

I don't see why the divide needs to be broken. Feminism just needs to go away. Was a movement needed to break the divide between racists and the civil rights movement?
/r/MensRights09/10/13 01:10 AM
1

So, how do we close the gap? We don't, since it isn't a problem. The sexes have different preferences when it comes to their careers, and feminists who don't like this because it conflicts with their ideology need to suck it up. That is the gap we should be focusing on. I don't think we really need to worry about any sort of gap. If we can find examples of unfair obligations on men to earn more then those obligations should be removed but there is no reason to be upset that the sexes are making …
/r/MensRights09/10/13 01:05 AM
2

It isn't a logical fallacy at all, because the MRM claims that feminism isn't actually for equality. It is society that has problems and it is society that we need to fix. We are both part of that. Do you think it adds anything to the conversation to say "racists and civil rights people will never convince each other of their opinions. In reality it is society we need to fix".
/r/MensRights09/10/13 01:00 AM
5

Clearly your friends who don't have any serious decision making power in the movement are a better representation of the movement than the actual actions of feminist organizations.
/r/MensRights09/10/13 12:58 AM
1

I consider stopping advocacy against something a prerequisite for being considered to be an ally of the cause. Maybe I am just being stupid though.
/r/MensRights09/10/13 12:56 AM
1

Homeless priviledge checklist. Homeless people don't have to mow their lawns Homeless people don't have to pay rent or a mortgage Homeless people aren't looked down upon when their house is messy Homeless people don't need to pay for utilities. And so on. The whole concept of privilege in the way feminists use it is ridiculous, and they just selectively pick any possible way that you can make being male seem good to make their case.
/r/MensRights04/10/13 02:40 AM
1

I don't know that you can really speak for all women on this topic. And judging by the number of women that consider all kinds of male attention to be practically rape I don't think you can say that women usually respond well to advances unless there is something seriously wrong with the guy. I've been cheated on a bunch. It was definitely because of issues I had with commitment, self esteem, and being too passive. Sure, my partners shouldn't have cheated on me, but I needed to stop being a door…
/r/MensRights02/10/13 02:18 AM
1

I agree that it isn't really a problem with femininity, but a problem with the culture. In fact I think part of the problem is that women aren't really comfortable being female and this causes lots of problems. And in many cases, it's not a willful ignorance and once it's pointed out to them Maybe. This hasn't been my experience however.
/r/MensRights02/10/13 01:57 AM
1

If women are universally scorning this guy, he's putting them off in some way, personality wise or physically. I don't think it is usually something wrong with a guy if he is scorned. Usually it requires being something that isn't just normal in order for a girl to be attracted too you. If women are universally scorning this guy, he's putting them off in some way, personality wise or physically. Women don't generally sleep with guys who simply don't put them off. I hate this "you can't get laid …
/r/MensRights02/10/13 01:51 AM
1

My female friends are about 50/50 split between being disgusted by 50 shades and slightly into it. I don't think it is really the best example. Standard romance novels and even romantic comedies are better ones. He doesn't seem to understand Well he is asking for a reason. "I'd like to do xyz with you on this day. Would that work for you?" In my experience and from talking to the women I know asking is not usually a good idea. From what I have seen it seems to be rather a turn off in some cases.…
/r/MensRights02/10/13 01:18 AM
3

The communist model doesn't necessarily need to be fair, or exactly equal contributions to the relationship. I just think both partners should be willing to do things for the other one if the other one needs it and they are able too, which doesn't seem to occur in many relationships.
/r/MensRights02/10/13 01:12 AM
2

I think that the expectation that men pay for dates is something that needs to go since feminism has effectively removed most if not all obligations on women in relationships. As for what you do once in a relationship, I think it depends upon the relationship. If you are going to have the relationship follow a somewhat communist model (from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs) you need to make sure that this is being followed in other ways too, and not just selectively …
/r/MensRights02/10/13 12:50 AM
1

Just because you watch the porn of it doesn't mean you want to do it. I agree. But it does mean that on some level you find it attractive, which is what I think the relevance here is. 50shades is a really fucked up representation of bdsm I agree, but many women find it appealing. he said, "over your protests". Is he not referring to things that occur in the book? Not obviously rape but the woman protesting and initially resisting what he wants to do until he convinces her to do it? I understand …
/r/MensRights02/10/13 12:47 AM
1

I agree that in this case there aren't any totally convincing arguments on either side. But I do think that the almost total absence of women speaking out against the common anti-male attitudes that society has does seem to indicate that they support these views or at the very least don't care enough to do anything about them. The reaction of most women when men's issues are brought up also seems to indicate to me that they support these attitudes. I of course haven't talked to most women, but b…
/r/MensRights01/10/13 11:43 PM
1

Is what happens in 50 shades of gray rape? Because if it is, huge numbers of women find rape appealing. If it isn't, then the guy is not advocating rape, only sex like what occurs in 50 shades of gray, which, from my understanding is more like rough sex with a guy who isn't touchy feely than rape.
/r/MensRights01/10/13 11:42 PM
0

all I never said all, I said most. I don't really care that much about saying the correct PC things, I value the facts. If you have any reasons to think that most women aren't anti-male and don't support feminist ideas then feel free to state them. If not, just admit that you don't really have an argument and are instead basing your opinion on what is politically correct to believe.
/r/MensRights01/10/13 02:35 AM
0

If you follow feminist definitions of rape, (and most young women claim to be feminists) then the vast majority of sex is rape.
/r/MensRights30/09/13 09:15 PM
2

Some women do have casual sex. I guess wanting to be one of the guys they have casual sex with is a horrible thing though. They are probably having sex with the guys who respect them as people the most I guess.
/r/MensRights30/09/13 09:11 PM
2

It would be hilarious how women feel that a man who does anything they don't like is a rapist were it not so pathetic and depressing. The logic in most of these cases is basically "A man did something I don't like, therefore he does things which I don't like, and I don't like rape so he is a rapist". This totally ignores the fact that someone could actually want to act ethically, in addition to just not following logically at all. As for your specific argument, someone who made a post "I need mo…
/r/MensRights30/09/13 09:07 PM
1

Yes, so ignorant to not believe something as an article of faith that has little to no evidence supporting it.
/r/MensRights30/09/13 09:00 PM
1

Being anti-feminist, is considered misogyny by many these days, and feminism is anti-male, so not being anti-male is considered misogynist.
/r/MensRights30/09/13 08:59 PM
1

Not being open to the idea that your experience may not be representative and your generalizations might be wrong is narrow minded. I am open to it, but don't really see much reason to think that my experience is not representative, as I said before. There's Women's Equity Action League, the Ladies of Liberty Alliance, the Association of Libertarian Feminists, and the New Woman's Movement, among others. After briefly googling those groups I don't really see much evidence that they support the id…
/r/MensRights30/09/13 04:47 AM
1

There is also the fact that the vast majority of what get's called misogyny these days is simply the absence of misandry, but I choose to defend my statement based upon the more difficult interpretation.
/r/MensRights30/09/13 04:17 AM
0

You keep shifting your argument when your proven wrong. I didn't start this argument by fully elucidating my points, since I wasn't treating it as a serious discussion, which is why from your perspective it appears that my viewpoint is changing. That, my friend, is called being narrow-minded. Generalizing from experience is narrow minded now? You've only seen evidence of 10 or so such people, because those are the only vocal feminists for equality. Do these people actually do anything, have any …
/r/MensRights30/09/13 03:49 AM
1

We are all biologically designed to have a sex drive. I don't know how saying this is such a bad thing. Because he admitted to just wanting ti get what he "needed", said that women say they want to be individuals, but really want to be bent over and fucked over their protests (almost a quote.), But if we look at your case you want to be treated like a person but also fucked roughly. Maybe he isn't exactly clear on the relationship between the two ideas. This attitude of believing that he knows w…
/r/MensRights29/09/13 11:09 PM
1

There is nothing about having a partner that loves and cares about you that has any real connection with primal sex. Loving and caring about someone =/ liking to have primal sex with them. So clearly you have some level of attraction to the more primal side of sex and masculinity. Acknowledging this is important, since only then can we seriously discuss the ways in which men should act with women. Currently men are told to totally suppress this side of themselves, and this leads to them not bein…
/r/MensRights29/09/13 10:47 PM
-1

You were the one who made the video game comparison.
/r/MensRights29/09/13 10:39 PM
-1

You claimed to be giving him advice on how to succeed with women. Maybe next time be more clear? Say "this advice won't really get you laid, but you should do it anyway". I guess that would make this post kind of irrelevant to this thread though, wouldn't it? Maybe next time just an "I think you are an asshole" would communicate your point better. Your advice was also assuming that he was an asshole in many ways, and really condescending. Nothing in his post implies he doesn't think other people…
/r/MensRights29/09/13 10:29 PM
-1

God forbid I actually explore the implications of women's sexual actions instead of just listening to what the claim they like.
/r/MensRights29/09/13 10:22 PM
-2

The idea that following this kind of advice is what makes you successful with women.
/r/MensRights29/09/13 10:19 PM
1

"You are not entitled to your ex-spouses stuff" Would you consider such a sticker to be gender neutral?
/r/MensRights29/09/13 10:15 PM
1

Obviously punching someone in the stomach and causing them harm is not okay. But it isn't murder if a fetus is not a person, more like aggravated assault. But of course a fetus is only not a person when women want to kill it.
/r/MensRights29/09/13 10:12 PM
2

The way your 2x post was written was very unsettling and a bit creepy. So basically you felt it was wrong so it was wrong?
/r/MensRights29/09/13 10:07 PM
0

Because liking rough sex does seem to indicate that you are not just attracted to the nice sensitive guys who value women as people that most women claim to be attracted too. If you look at what occurs in things like romance novels that women read much of it would be considered rape by feminists these days, and even what occurs in romantic comedies would in many cases not be considered okay, and at the very least does not fit with the standard feminist ideas about what women like. It is extremel…
/r/MensRights29/09/13 10:04 PM
-1

Personally I have found women don't make any sense until you abandon the idea that their actions fit into any kind of coherent worldview or rational system and the idea that they care at all about men. The more experience I have with women the more I find that feminism seems to represent the attitudes and feelings of the majority of women extremely well.
/r/MensRights29/09/13 09:52 PM
-1

The vast majority of women I have met who aren't feminist do so because they still want men to pay for dinner or are against abortion. I have met few women who don't agree with feminism's fundamental sense of entitlement for women or it's anti-male nature, and see little reason to suppose that my experience is not representative. there are some good feminists left. Christina Hoff Summers and who else? I have only seen evidence for 10 or so such people.
/r/MensRights29/09/13 09:43 PM
-2

You should read what women say about their experiences with misogyny then. Yea. And then they will tell you that a man once said that women weren't better at everything than men. No, you quite clearly only care about yourself. This doesn't follow at all. Asking how to succeed with women is not necessarily asking how to succeed with women against their own desires, it could simply be asking how to become someone that has things to offer women. You misunderstood what I was getting at with that tid…
/r/MensRights29/09/13 09:41 PM
-1

God, I can't believe we get this kind of BS here.
/r/MensRights29/09/13 09:35 PM
-1

Maybe not all women, but the fact that the majority of women are feminists is a good reason to dislike women as a group.
/r/MensRights29/09/13 04:53 PM
-1

Maybe not hate, but really misogyny doesn't really mean hate anymore. There are definitely strong reasons to dislike them as a group though.
/r/MensRights29/09/13 01:41 AM
-1

Someone who is misogynists because of looking at the facts objectively.
/r/MensRights29/09/13 01:32 AM
-1

I am saying it.
/r/MensRights29/09/13 01:27 AM
-1

They are the bad kind of misogynists as opposed to the good kind.
/r/MensRights29/09/13 01:20 AM
4

I am find with talking about the negatives of masculinity as long as you are allowed to seriously discuss the positives of masculinity. What I have a problem is the current climate where only the bad things about men and the good things about women can be talked about.
/r/MensRights28/09/13 02:08 AM
8

I don't think people here are really interested in sexism/not sexism, compared to their interest in facts vs the truth. What is going on here is we are attempting to discuss the real differences between the genders, instead of the normal thing were every positive aspect of masculinity is ignored and every negative one exaggerated.
/r/MensRights27/09/13 10:05 PM
22

It's not just weird and pointless, it is basically a form of prejudice in some cases. It's like if you opened a charity to help only white people with cancer, and then when asked why accused the person asking of derailing.
/r/MensRights27/09/13 07:58 AM
1

They back down when pressed, but when it is convenient they also typically pick whatever aspects of the ideology they can use, or whatever aspects make them feel better/make their problems men's fault.
/r/MensRights24/09/13 11:55 PM
2

There are at least some jobs enforcing feminist ideology that have been created in the domestic violence, rape, and HR industries.
/r/MensRights23/09/13 05:04 AM
2

Obviously it is not all biologically determined. But that doesn't really justify anything. The fact that it is at least somewhat biological means that we can't say that the natural or best state is to have the genders behaving the same.
/r/MensRights23/09/13 05:02 AM
1

The very question of how much of a personality trait is biologically determined is a silly one. Suppose we could make the genders behave the same by brainwashing electroshock anyone who exhibits traditional gender behaviors. Does this mean that gender is not biologically determined, or that really we should strive for 50/50 rations in all fields? Clearly not. The interaction between nature and nurture is complex, but we definitely know that men and women aren't the same and given the same stimul…
/r/MensRights23/09/13 05:00 AM
1

I also have a problem with what you initially said "men who want to be good fathers". I think that what men have traditionally done in relationships, which is work more and not be as nurturing but more an example, a disciplinarian and a teacher is very important. I think that these days we see parenting as what mothers traditionally did, and so we miss out on the important contributions fathers traditionally made, and also undervalue the male role. The above example is a good point to begin disc…
/r/MensRights23/09/13 04:16 AM
7

This is an excellent article. Feminists constantly say that "patriarchy" makes men shamed for expressing emotions. However they are only talking about stereotypical female emotions, which men do have, but are not the most common male emotions. As soon as men feel emotions like jealousy, as soon as they get upset that their partner isn't sleeping with them, as soon as they get at all angry they are domestically violent or rapists. Feminists constantly shame men for having emotions, and are even t…
/r/MensRights23/09/13 03:55 AM
1

Isn't intersectionality only something created by feminists to try to get out of the problems that come when try to break everything down into privileged groups and oppressed groups?
/r/MensRights21/09/13 12:40 AM
2

I want it gone. I think it is more a vehicle to demonize men and spread feminism than to help any victims of violence.
/r/MensRights21/09/13 12:27 AM
1

From what I heard conscription in Germany had been revoked.
/r/MensRights19/09/13 11:08 PM
0

He seems to be saying that marriage provides some sort of advantage in terms of stability. I don't think that is the case at all. Married men simply choose to work harder, I don't see any reason to think that marriage gives them a leg up.
/r/MensRights17/09/13 10:19 PM
1

I think you are getting the causality mixed up here. The most likely reason that married men earn more is because they have more motivation to do so.
/r/MensRights17/09/13 06:43 AM
2

Many dads these days are required to pay money, yet visitation is not enforced so they never get to see their kids. Making the men have a choices to pay would enable them to have more bargaining power and the option to see their kids more.
/r/MensRights17/09/13 06:41 AM
1

I am not saying that his behavior wasn't bad. I just don't like the way the word abusive is used these days. People use it in a way that is so broad that it basically can mean not doing something that your wife/girlfriend wants. Also, once someone is labelled as an abuser the idea is that they are just this awefull asshole who fits in with all these other assholes, and there is nothing more too it. You've surely read how he made me call him when I got to my mother's home, three miles away, and c…
/r/MensRights16/09/13 04:50 AM
0

As soon as that ring was on my finger, I was his property. He owned me and dictated every single thing I did. He became abusive to me and the children. I don't doubt much of your story, but this sounds like it is being filtered through the feminist narrative on domestic violence, which is basically shown to be incorrect by the facts. I am also not a fan of labeling people as abusive. This word is downright misleading these days, because it still has overtones of someone beating their wife, while…
/r/MensRights16/09/13 03:37 AM
0

Yes, people should respect other people's boundaries. But I do women often think that certain things should make it clear that they don't want someone to do something, when in reality it isn't so clear at all. This is made worse because on the one hand you have feminists giving advice that on relationships and approaching people that is basically impossible to follow, and on the other hand you have women saying how romantic romantic comedies where the guy is really persistent are. I wish women w…
/r/MensRights16/09/13 03:32 AM
1

Are you just out-and-out saying that your arguments aren't factually-based? No, I am saying that my arguments are based upon facts that aren't really questionable. If you question them, I will provide evidence for them, but I am not going to find a source that justifies every fact that is even tangentially related to the topic at hand. So what? Men and women fulfill particular roles--well, what are those? Are men hunters, and women gatherers? If so, do we need sex-selective hunters and gatherers…
/r/MensRights14/09/13 05:27 AM
2

Or maybe guys go into engineering because they are actively discouraged away from many other fields?
/r/MensRights14/09/13 03:52 AM
1

Facts require evidence, arguments don't. You can understand some things using logic, although I am guessing you aren't in the habit of doing so, considering the extremely basic errors you are making. Are you challenging any of the facts I listed in my five point summary of my argument? Because if not, I don't really need evidence.
/r/MensRights13/09/13 09:34 PM
1

I already stated my argument point by point. No-reframing was necessary, especially not one that attributed to me things that I never said. You want men to rule society because they have great big old muscles and women to get down on their knees and be thankful we don't enslave them with our great big evolutionarily-guaranteed strength. I never said any of this at all. You need to start actually reading my posts. You're a pig, and an intellectual non-entity. Lol. Coming from someone who says the…
/r/MensRights12/09/13 11:29 PM
1

So you outline what you think my argument is, which is different from what I actually just said that my argument was in the previous post, and then say that I am wrong because your incorrect interpretation of my argument is flawed? If you change peoples into flawed ones the arguments are going to be flawed. This achieves nothing though. Maybe pay attention to what people are actually saying, as opposed to what you want them to be saying so you can feel smart and self-righteous. Just a handy tip …
/r/MensRights12/09/13 08:59 PM
0

I don't think most of what the government does these days to fight against racism and sexism actually helps the problem, in fact I think most of it just makes it worse.
/r/MensRights12/09/13 08:52 PM
2

Or does less harm than government intervention into everyone's lives. One need only look at feminism to see the damage that can be done when the government steps in to help certain groups.
/r/MensRights12/09/13 03:24 AM
1

Men ARE stronger than women... but only because of testosterone. And why does testosterone make people stronger, and why do men have more of it? Because of evolution. I can't believe you actually are making an argument as bad as the one you are making. Just goes to show how ignorant you have to be to believe the ideas you do. What you are arguing is as stupid as saying "Cheetas arn't fast due to evolution, they are fast due to the fact that their bodies are able to run fast, evolution has nothin…
/r/MensRights12/09/13 02:53 AM
1

There has to be some connection between the facts you are using as evidence and the statement they are evidence for. You have brought up a large number of random facts "we can make women as strong as men", yet you haven't really given any justification for your position. My "irrelevant" facts are rebuttals of your assertions; if you want to refute my facts, you need more convincing facts of your own, not assertions of your nonexistent arguments. None of your facts is at all relevant to the argum…
/r/MensRights11/09/13 11:45 PM
2

Have you provided any evidence for yours? Since the vast majority of human societies are not egalitarian I don't think your idea that magically the sexes could do everything the other sex could and biological differences were meaningless is at all supported. Igbo matriarchical hierarchy would agree with you. Ifi Amadiume wrote a whole book on these different sex roles. Just because one society that is relatively unsuccessful can have sex roles different from the traditional ones does not mean th…
/r/MensRights11/09/13 05:27 AM
17

Could you possibly add some paragraphs?
/r/MensRights11/09/13 03:16 AM
2

"Evo-psych," as in evolutionary psychology. Since when did questioning evo-psych mean I'm a creationist? We aren't talking about psychology at all here. We are discussing the fact that humans evolved. Again, [citation needed], because you've STILL not provided any proof to back up this claim that requires proof to be a valid scientific assertion. This is just a basic principal to anyone who knows anything about evolution. I have already made a counterclaim that survivability is a spectrum, not a…
/r/MensRights10/09/13 11:45 PM
1

I think many of those studies look at median wages, which wouldn't really be that effected by the extremely high salaries of those at the top.
/r/MensRights10/09/13 10:26 PM
1

Sorry, I can't hear you talking over the mountain of evidence you're not providing for evo-psych. So are you denying that humans evolved? Or that humans evolution shaped our behavior and physiology, as occurred for every other animal? If you are denying either of these things you are on the same ground as creationists. Other than that I cannot even really fathom what point you are trying to make. You seem to just be stringing together random facts with no bearing on the topic at hand. ALL evolut…
/r/MensRights10/09/13 09:47 PM
3

If you don't know anything about what you are talking about just don't say anything next time. Men's "greater strength" is as related to evolution as men's nipples. Why do men have nipples, you ask? Because women need nipples, and the undifferentiated fetus prior to the introduction of sex-selective hormones has all the building blocks for both sets of body parts, male and female So you are saying men's greater strength is an unintended consequence of evolution that is not adaptive at all? You a…
/r/MensRights09/09/13 09:47 PM
3

Clearly men's greater strength evolved for no reason.
/r/MensRights09/09/13 03:30 AM
1

I agree with using the statistics to attack feminism's use of rape to hold their advocacy together. But I think we need to fight rape hysteria, not propagate it. Men will always be expected to be the ones to make more of the advances, and so rape hysteria will always effect them more.
/r/MensRights09/09/13 03:28 AM
4

We will never be able to out victim women. I would use those statistics more as an example of how feminist definitions of rape are ridiculous than as an attempt to gain sympathy for men. The domestic violence one I do think is an issue for men though, especially since because of the current legal climate they can't really fight back.
/r/MensRights09/09/13 01:39 AM
2

I agree with you. I also find the attempts by men to fight feminism at playing the victim with respect to domestic violence and rape as somewhat silly.
/r/MensRights09/09/13 01:23 AM
3

I assume Cackenbools meant that you are considered to be an asshole for that by society.
/r/MensRights06/09/13 02:52 AM
2

Because they presume feminism is equivalent to advocating women's rights. Well then we educate them. But if the only feminists who can support men's rights are those who are ignorant of feminism that doesn't really seem like evidence that feminism is a good thing, rather that ignorant people think it is a good thing. It doesn't disqualify them from being an MRA It kind of does. Anyone who has had exposure to the truth about men's issues and is still a feminist is not really a supporter of the MR…
/r/MensRights06/09/13 02:44 AM
2

What are the positions of a person who calls themselves a feminist? I claim you can't know. Because why they assume that label isn't universal. There is no test to get the feminist badge. No audit to make sure you'd still drinking the same cool-aid. Just because someone is a feminist doesn't mean you know their positions. To presume so, then dismiss them, is exactly what people do to MRAs. If they don't share the erroneous beliefs of most feminists why do they choose to identify with them? Given…
/r/MensRights05/09/13 10:22 PM
2

Isn't it frustrating how people dismiss MRAs out of hand? It is frustrating how people dismiss MRA arguments out of hand and don't even consider challenging their own position. However unless you have arguments I see no problem with dismissing people if you have food reasons too, for example good arguments against their positions. It's the same frustrating dismissiveness, only it is coming from our camp. The only differences is that one is deserved and one isn't. It is fine to dismiss people who…
/r/MensRights05/09/13 09:28 PM
0

The Nazi movement is the best movement to make points about group responsibility for actions, because it is so well studied and what they did is not defensible.
/r/MensRights04/09/13 11:53 PM
1

By calling themselves a feminist they are supporting anti-male groups, so there is something wrong with you.
/r/MensRights04/09/13 11:40 PM
6

If we really treat both genders equally then it doesn't matter where on the gender spectrum you are.
/r/MensRights04/09/13 11:28 PM
1

You just appeared to be saying that controlling for some factors and then claiming you showed the rest of the gap was due to discrimination is a valid methodology.
/r/MensRights03/09/13 12:26 AM
2

Plenty of feminists use the raw wage gap figures. That could be where the confusion comes from.
/r/MensRights03/09/13 12:25 AM
1

No-one here is saying that figure adjustment is wrong. But what you can't do is adjust for some factors and then just assume that one what you didn't account for explains the rest when there are still many factors unaccounted for. This is how all studies that find a wage gap due so. All these studies are finding is that a certain part of the wage gap is explicitly not due to discrimination, not that any of it is due to discrimination, yet they always claim otherwise.
/r/MensRights02/09/13 11:58 PM
1

What would you consider to be radical MRA's? Because radical MRA's are not even close to as crazy as radical feminists. I don't really think there is a group of people who I would describe as radical MRA's.
/r/MensRights02/09/13 06:09 PM
1

I'm literally badgered for being the smart kid Lol. Thanks for that. This is the first majorly abusive one I've found on here and it seems he has plenty of support. Oh, I'm sorry, are your feelings hurt? Because here we don't give a shit. You want to be treated nicely, get your facts straight, and don't be productively stupid in favor of a hateful ideology. If you are going to assert that women are paid less for the same work as feminist constantly do you need to compare the same work, not sort …
/r/MensRights02/09/13 06:05 PM
0

Someone else who has no experience doing real advocacy and is talking out of their ass. If you payed attention you would see the reaction men's groups get when they try to do positive change.
/r/MensRights02/09/13 03:05 PM
1

Totally. I hate those people who somehow act like every post needs to be total statistical proof of the issues we are talking about. There is a place for examples as well.
/r/MensRights02/09/13 03:03 PM
6

All the politicians who listen to feminist lobby groups because of how many people identify as feminists, and anyone who wants to find out what a particular woman thinks about gender issues.
/r/MensRights01/09/13 01:59 AM
1

I guess people can't really be expected to deal with their own feelings like mature adults in this day and age. I guess we also don't need any evidence of abuse before we believe someone.
/r/MensRights29/08/13 09:27 PM
-1

Why does she need to get authorities to believe he was abusing her? All she needs to do is leave. Abusing her using the kids? I can't see how this could be physical abuse, and I don't really see any other forms of abuse as that bad. Deal with emotional distress, don't whine to the courts to protect you. I also question how you know he was so bad.
/r/MensRights29/08/13 03:16 AM
-9

Allegedly raped.
/r/MensRights29/08/13 02:12 AM
1

Making women would be drafted would make fewer men be drafted, so would not really increase the amount of people drafted and can not really be said to be making things worse. And feminists totally ignored the draft despite the fact that it was a huge disadvantage to being a man. If you are going to argue that women have it worse ignoring the draft is a huge problem.
/r/MensRights27/08/13 11:49 PM
3

that no one is getting drafted now. Equality has been achieved. Men will still be drafted if there is ever a war, and are required to register from the draft in the united states. The point being made is that since feminism only addressed areas in which women had a disadvantage it was not for equality. If it had been it would have at least acknowledged men's greater duty to society through the draft.
/r/MensRights27/08/13 09:28 PM
1

If I am sounding like the at least 34 men who die are a more serious problem it is more because those men aren't even really acknowledged to exist, and the problem that causes their deaths is not acknowledged to be a problem at all. In fact people tend to just assume any wife that kills her husband was fighting back against his abuse, and this leads to much reduced sentences in court for those women. I actually think that helping men in abusive relationships and removing the incorrect Duluth mod…
/r/MensRights26/08/13 11:59 PM
1

There was a recent study that said 55% of women don't offer to pay for dates and that all but 18% hope that the man won't accept their offer to pay. So you can split the bill but women aren't happy with you if you do.
/r/MensRights26/08/13 11:54 PM
0

We only have an epidemic of rape if you count regretted drunk sex and "pressured" sex as rape.
/r/MensRights26/08/13 03:41 AM
1

The case of an agreement to have sex is also not the same as contract law either. If you are drunk when you sign a contract the contract can be invalidated, but you don't get your money back if you buy and eat a burger while drunk, for example. So in the case of sex since the "transaction" has already occurred the fact that the person was drunk would have no effect. In general there is no onus on the person getting someone to sign a contract to determine whether the other person is drunk or not,…
/r/MensRights26/08/13 03:38 AM
5

You could as easily argue women are responsible for patriarchy because we were so often engaged in, and weakened by, childbearing and breastfeeding that we required the men to earn 100% of the household's living. It's nobody's fault and nobody's responsibility. Just the point of social and physical evolution we're at today. I agree with you, but I don't think that most feminists agree with you, and I think the term patriarchy is meant by them and understood by most to be a thing perpetrated more…
/r/MensRights26/08/13 02:32 AM
6

Biology is primarily responsible for it. Feminism did not begin until the Industrial Revolution was underway in the 18th century; prior to that, physical strength was the most important determining factor in one's station in life. Feudalism was constructed upon warfare, and those in power were warrior nobility. I agree with this, but this isn't really arguing against the fact that saying patriarchy implies men are responsible for it, or it is associated with maleness. Personally speaking, I'm on…
/r/MensRights26/08/13 02:04 AM
1

In regards to sexual preferences and they way they deal with men the biggest thing to do would be to stop lying about what they are attracted too. If men had the correct information they needed they could deal with it, the same way that women can deal with the fact that men like attractive women. A large part of the way men act is because that is what women want men to act like, and pretending otherwise is doing a huge disservice to both genders. A little more compassion for the plight men face …
/r/MensRights25/08/13 11:16 PM
3

I don't know if they see it as synonymous with men, but it is seen as primarily for the benefit of men and instituted and maintained by men.
/r/MensRights25/08/13 11:07 PM
10

were explicitly taught that patriarchy is bad for men Calling the system of gender roles patriarchy implies that men are the primary ones responsible for it, which is incorrect. "men hurt both men and women" is not much of a concession. In addition, feminist claim they are fighting patriarchy and therefore helping men. This is extremely flawed logic, especially since feminists aren't fighting patriarchy in general but only specific sets of attitudes (while reinforcing other patriarchal attitudes…
/r/MensRights25/08/13 10:00 PM
8

I don't like the term patriarchy at all, and in my opinion it needs to drop out of common use, because it implies several things about men's and women's role in maintaining the system that are incorrect. It also implies some sort of organized force instead of the truth which is that we had a system of gender roles because of biological necessity.
/r/MensRights25/08/13 09:52 PM
7

You need to educate yourself on feminism. Feminism has caused and/or maintained every disadvantage that men face in society today. They are probably the largest factor preventing men's issues from getting attention.
/r/MensRights25/08/13 09:32 PM
1

Yea, all the men should totally stop trying to get other men to be tough and competitive. We can all just be like women and then women will ignore us.
/r/MensRights25/08/13 09:21 PM
2

Erin ran her woman's shelter just fine. It was when she tried to help men she was harassed. It's when the MRA try to argue that it is as frequent as male on female, or even that it is more frequent that the problem starts. It is. Seriously, read the sidebar. The only studies that find women are the predominant victims are things that look at police reports, which are obviously effected in a huge way by reporting bias and the fact that police tend to assume the man is at fault. I love how you are…
/r/MensRights25/08/13 08:45 PM
1

Earl Silverman ran a DV shelter for men in Edmonton, which just shut down recently due to him committing suicide. It cost him a lot of money, he wasn't taken seriously, he didn't get any money from the government, and if he ever tried to fundraiser for his shelter he would be faced with the fact that due to feminist propaganda no-one believes that female on male DV happens with any frequency. So it has been tried recently, and met with the same results.
/r/MensRights25/08/13 06:53 PM
1

That's what Erin Pizzey did. Yes, and she did it for men as well. Except feminist fought against the part for men, harassed her, suppressed her research, and she eventually left the country because of it. If feminists had left her alone and not fought against the men's shelters we might have had men's shelters for the past 40 years, as well as not assuming that men are always the aggressors and arresting men who call the police on their wives.
/r/MensRights25/08/13 06:42 PM
1

Blaming men for the pressures on men to be competitive, high earners, and not display emotions is adding insult to injury, since you are blaming men for a problem caused by women's sexual preferences. Stopping blaming men for their problems (as you are doing) would be a good place to start with dealing with the pressures of men due to the requirements of masculinity.
/r/MensRights25/08/13 06:39 PM
2

To get public funding you have to establish a need. If you were going to write a funding application, how would you show that ther was a need for safe houses for male victims of domestic violence? How would you show that there are men in real fear for their lives and the lives of their children- men who have nowhere to go but a refuge? Well a start would be using statistics, if feminists didn't deny that female on male DV ever happens. Feminism never had a huge, well funded movement saying that …
/r/MensRights25/08/13 06:34 PM
2

It's nice that you live in such a fantasy world where everyone has the time and money to put half their house and a lot of their time towards helping people but in the real world those things require time and money that not everyone has. It's so easy to criticize the MRM for inaction as a feminist in a movement who only has to whine to get money thrown at them by people, and which has a huge amount of financial backing, much of it from the government. Why should men not be helped by the same gov…
/r/MensRights25/08/13 04:36 PM
1

Well men tend to have sex with attractive women. A start would be to stop blaming men for something that is caused primarily by women's sexual preferences.
/r/MensRights25/08/13 04:32 PM
1

If we count regretted drunk sex as rape as feminists do it is more than possible that countries with more conservative attitudes towards sex have fewer rapes that western nations.
/r/MensRights25/08/13 04:03 AM
16

They are better at being quiet and regurgitating bullshit without questioning it.
/r/MensRights25/08/13 03:08 AM
1

I don't really think there is that much more I need to understand about your position. I think you could do to reconsider my actual position instead of some strawman "don't have emotions" position. If this is just "a bunch of pretty basic advice", why do we therapists exist at all? Well largely to shame men for not indulging their emotions in the way women do I guess. When men express their emotions without first moderating them they do not get reacted to favorably. If men get angry women get af…
/r/MensRights24/08/13 11:24 PM
2

I guess you also aren't going to address the many many places in which you have been proved factually incorrect in this thread.
/r/MensRights24/08/13 11:03 PM
1

I ask again. What have feminists dome to prevent people setting up shelters for male victims of domestic violence? Pretended that male domestic violence doesn't exist and constantly minimized it, portrayed any murdered husbands as guilty in a perfect example of victim blaming, changed legislation so that police guidelines favor arresting the man, and monopolized all money for domestic violence, as well as openly attacking and harassing people who attempted to help male victims such as Erin Pizze…
/r/MensRights24/08/13 11:02 PM
1

It's just that you gave a bunch of pretty basic advice after assuming that I had a somewhat unsophisticated view of the role of emotions. I think you may be making this mistake often when you deal with people who take a POV similar to mine on the issue of dealing with emotions.
/r/MensRights24/08/13 08:11 PM
2

I have sat down with many feminists and explained my interest in the MRM. Many of them will pay lip service to the ideas of the MRM, but will never change either their minds or their behavior, and they don't even really consider the fact that they might be wrong. Using the term "patriarchal society" is much better than using the term patriarchy, but I still have several disagreements with this point of view. For one, I think you need to clarify what you mean by patriarchal society. Men are in po…
/r/MensRights24/08/13 04:35 PM
2

What is good about modern feminism? I am genuinely curious, because all I see the feminist movement doing is spreading anti-male hate and more special privileges for women.
/r/MensRights24/08/13 02:58 PM
1

That there are many people who realize some of the ridiculousness of feminism, and will likely realize some of the claims of misogyny for typical feminist hysteria.
/r/MensRights24/08/13 02:56 PM
3

What was feminism doing before it had any money and support? What you are doing is like going up to John Steward Mill 10 years after he wrote his book and asking him what he was doing. It is very difficult to do anything as a social movement until you have either a certain amount of money or a certain amount of popular support, neither of which the MRM has at the moment. This is especially true when you have a very strong social movement in opposition to you. Getting the word out there and comba…
/r/MensRights24/08/13 02:33 PM
1

But thanks for the amateur analysis of what I wrote. Lol. I wasn't saying that you were saying the opposite. I was stating the POV of many people who believe in manning up. Maybe work on the reading comprehension. You have a real tendency to assume other people are idiots when there is a much better explanation for what they are saying.
/r/MensRights24/08/13 02:22 PM
2

And of course things like women having sex in droves with successful men and men who are athletes and musicians while shaming men who approach then that they don't like has nothing to do with men being competitive. It's not solely men who perpetrate a culture of competition, the primary cause is women's choice of sexual partners.
/r/MensRights24/08/13 02:17 PM
2

It's not the article itself that is a source, it is the statistics within the article from the justice department, the official keeper of crime statistics. Since you are too lazy to google it Here is the official source. In the UK about a quarter as many men as women are counted as killed by their partner in [official statistics] (http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/mf.pdf), and this likely underestimates the rates since the ways in which women commit murder against their spouses are often not co…
/r/MensRights24/08/13 02:12 PM
4

How many men die every week as a result of domestic violence? http://www.uiowa.edu/~030116/158/articles/dershowitz3.htm Lots. These statistics also likely underestimate the rate of female perpetration as women are more likely to get someone else to kill their partner, in which case it isn't counted as a spousal homicide. Women have historically not been taken seriously- this site seems very fond of Erin Pizzey- she set up her refuge because women were not being taken seriously by the police. And…
/r/MensRights24/08/13 12:56 AM
3

So basically, you have beliefs with no evidence (I assume or else you would have presented it when posters challenged your claims on the wage gap), that demonize men. And you wonder why we dislike feminists.
/r/MensRights24/08/13 12:51 AM
6

That's very typical of feminists. Pick the only argument that they can obfuscate longest on and argue that point. When they manage to do so they convince themselves that their beliefs are justified.
/r/MensRights24/08/13 12:50 AM
2

How is it not helpful? It is showing directly that feminists fight against men's issues. It is only not helpful if you are trying to whitewash feminism.
/r/MensRights24/08/13 12:48 AM
0

She's not a feminist, she is making arguments against feminism. She is a prominent MRA.
/r/MensRights24/08/13 12:46 AM
2

Funny that a large majority want or expect men to pay for dates. It's not patriarchy or other men that keeps men in their traditional roles.
/r/MensRights24/08/13 12:44 AM
1

Well one of the first things is stopping people from lying and saying we aren't needed because either men don't have significant problems or feminists are already dealing with them.
/r/MensRights24/08/13 12:42 AM
1

And yes, you think so much of men that you think other men cause men to commit suicide by shaming them, and that men are the primary cause of both genders problems related to their sex.
/r/MensRights24/08/13 12:13 AM
1

No, I am not saying this. I am saying that things like creep shaming and attitudes that many women have that men need to be earning tons of money or pay for dates, as well as the general lack of female support for male emotions (consider the fact that some feminists consider being upset for being turned down for sex to be attempted rape, basically forcing men to show no emotion). Also the idea that men somehow have it easier (spread by feminism) means that there is much less acceptance of the di…
/r/MensRights24/08/13 12:09 AM
4

There have been many examples given in this thread, and there are more on the sidebar.
/r/MensRights23/08/13 10:20 PM
0

This is the typical feminist line, but I have never seen any evidence for it. I think it is far more likely that attitudes by women towards guys who are awkward with women(creeps), unattractive, and unsuccessful are what causes men to commit suicide. But of course you insist on blaming all problems primarily on men.
/r/MensRights23/08/13 10:18 PM
5

The problem with the beginning of your sentence is that you basically blame all of the problems on men, or primarily on men. Do you see why it is not much of a consolation when you basically are saying "men cause problems for men and women"? Especially when social forces are at least as supported by women as men.
/r/MensRights23/08/13 10:16 PM
2

Making a generalization about men=/ making a generalization about feminists. Making a generalization about feminists is like making a generalization about republicans, which is done all the time.
/r/MensRights23/08/13 10:14 PM
0

Thanks for the amateur therapy, but I do just fine. Emotions are like the basic inputs that determine what a person wants. They do not however determine any facts, and the proper thing to do is to analyze them and think about what they mean before acting on them. People would tell someone to man up if they bitch and don't sensibly based upon their emotions, not if they have them. If you immediately assume you are right about any feeling you have and act on it and burden others with it then you a…
/r/MensRights23/08/13 10:05 PM
5

Because I value the truth.
/r/MensRights23/08/13 04:13 AM
1

The reputation of men's rights has been ruined by feminist lies about how men don't have any problems and how bad women have it.
/r/MensRights23/08/13 01:09 AM
36

Because since, the only politically correct belief is that women are at least as good or better than men at everything women should be on top or equal in all categories, or somethings is wrong and men are cheating.
/r/MensRights23/08/13 01:05 AM
1

Why on earth would you call yourself a feminist?
/r/MensRights23/08/13 01:03 AM
13

You don't need a particular identity to be a part of the MRM. Anyone who cares about men, or even about the truth and actually helping people of both sexes instead of spreading lies because it makes some people feel better is welcome.
/r/MensRights23/08/13 01:01 AM
14

I don't let my emotions control me and don't impose them on other people because I consider it the proper thing to do. We shouldn't be trying to get men to be as entitled as many women are when they think there emotions are the most important thing.
/r/MensRights23/08/13 12:59 AM
12

This very question is extremely divorced from reality and misandric.
/r/MensRights21/08/13 11:39 PM
2

It's not really. Read the sidebar. Feminism fights against men's issues.
/r/MensRights19/08/13 02:10 AM
5

How is urban dictionary viewing feminism positively a good thing? People need to realize that feminism is a female superiority movement.
/r/MensRights19/08/13 12:42 AM
0

I would doubt that. In most situations people aren't going to attack you unless they know they can kick your ass and so you being able to fight back won't really help you. It might just make them madder.
/r/MensRights18/08/13 11:03 PM
9

I don't think it is about power for the men, rather about getting out of the feeling of powerlessness that comes as a man whenever you do anything to show interest in women.
/r/MensRights18/08/13 07:54 PM
10

It's like making a rule "the person without breasts pays". Technically not discrimination but in reality just as discriminatory.
/r/MensRights18/08/13 07:08 PM
5

I think part of the reason that men are so into sex and sometimes find it difficult to be friends with people who they don't have sex with is that the sex drive is a huge part of what it is to be a man, and it is difficult to be friends with someone if you basically have to suppress a large part of yourself while around them. Even just having women being okay with the idea that you want to have sex with them is sometimes nice, as you no longer have to avoid a certain topic of conversation or els…
/r/MensRights18/08/13 06:20 PM
1

I think it was far better in the past than what we have now. Men are always going to be expected to do more for women than they get back in return, and having this acknowledged and having people be grateful for it is probably the best men are ever going to get. I don't consider on-male rape a serious issue, because from what I understand it is mostly a product of using the same definitions that feminists use to exaggerate the rates of rape for women.
/r/MensRights17/08/13 05:02 AM
3

I don't think that is frequent at all. What happens is that if a woman acted like she wanted casual sex and the guy says she consented his story has more supporting evidence.
/r/MensRights15/08/13 07:57 PM
2

You don't need to associate with him as part of the MRM though.
/r/MensRights15/08/13 07:55 PM
1

Yea, so uneducated I believe that the draft actually existed.
/r/MensRights14/08/13 04:31 PM
1

Yes, I am one of the people who believes that selectively removing all of one genders disadvantages while keeping or increasing all of their advantages does not really indicate a commitment to equality.
/r/MensRights14/08/13 04:12 PM
1

From the very beginning feminism portrayed women as oppressed when in fact they merely had a different role with different advantages and disadvantages. While giving women the right to vote was a good thing, doing it without even acknowledging things like the fact that men were drafted does not seem to be in favor of equality to me.
/r/MensRights14/08/13 02:20 PM
2

The issue is not that the victims name is released to the public it is that her past sexual history is not allowed into the courtroom. For example suppose someone had semen in their vagina and a lot of bruising. This would seem to be evidence of them being raped. But if the had a history of liking rough consensual sex with people they don't know it might not be strong evidence any more.
/r/MensRights14/08/13 04:05 AM
11

Basically because I lack the capacity for double think. Growing up the ideals of being treated equally and not expected to do the typical male things to earn your place appealed to me but it was always obvious to men that feminism wasn't really doing anything about that. I made excuses for a while about why this was the case until I eventually realized that feminists simply don't care at all about men's issues and/or are too stupid to realize the consequences of their actions and the things they…
/r/MensRights14/08/13 04:03 AM
1

But is that coming from within the MRM? It comes from people claiming to be part of the MRM. It doesn't really work here. They also claim to be part of the movement and just say "guys, we need to stop being so angry, it makes people see us badly" and stuff, which is just typical tone policing.
/r/MensRights14/08/13 03:27 AM
1

So brave.
/r/MensRights14/08/13 03:23 AM
1

Feminism doesn't have a good history, and in fact is a terribly misleading term.
/r/MensRights14/08/13 03:19 AM
2

I'm wondering if this affects how rape statistics are calculated, as many men wouldn't even occur to categorize lots of these drunk experiences as rape. It definitely does. Most of the very high estimates of rape used by the feminist movement use definitions similar to the SJW ones. If you ask men the same questions women are asked then men turn out to also have been "raped" in high numbers.
/r/MensRights13/08/13 08:17 PM
3

Rape is what women feel is rape. That is what SJW really believe.
/r/MensRights13/08/13 08:00 PM
1

The problem is that when women are behind in anything it is seen as a result of male discrimination, but as soon as they start to catch up or do better it is obviously because they are superior. As a culture we generally just accept that women are better at everything than men, and to believe otherwise is misogyny.
/r/MensRights13/08/13 07:58 PM
5

Do women tend to do a lot of heavy physical work that would be impeded by pregnancy anyway? I also think that if you look at what women want being physically unable to work while pregnant is not what is causing them to take time off work.
/r/MensRights13/08/13 07:21 PM
2

It is quite possible for women to work office jobs while pregnant.
/r/MensRights13/08/13 06:52 PM
6

I totally agree. Those who sacrifice more for work should understandably earn more, and it is ridiculous that we make exceptions to this rule for women. If women want to have kids and also have a high powered career they can do what men do and choose a partner who is willing to sacrifice their career for the kids. It is not men that are the limiting factor in becoming stay at home dads, it is women who are not attracted to these men and/or don't want to give up their role as the primary caregive…
/r/MensRights13/08/13 05:54 PM
7

If you're friend said, "Hey stupid idiot, 2+2=4." Are you going to listen after the attack, even if the answer is correct? If they had an interesting point, sure. I don't tend to let my feelings determine what arguments I listen too. I just get angry at people who stop a discussion before starting it by saying "ALL PEOPLE DO THIS" We aren't saying that all feminists do this, just that feminism as a movement does.
/r/MensRights13/08/13 05:17 PM
3

I don't consider it a disadvantage. However, if my story is similar to a lot of other ones the push to get more women in STEM fields is very troubling, as it is trying to remove the only area in school in which men are not discriminated against.
/r/MensRights13/08/13 01:38 AM
1

'too bad that you have to take off work to bear children and that's your choice, you can't have pay/career opportunities like men', Women can absolutely have kids and work, just like men can. The issue is that women want to have the same pay as men while being the primary person to raise the child. If women simply let men do more of the child rearing they could have the exact same situation that men have.
/r/MensRights13/08/13 01:35 AM
1

Sometimes they can be based upon facts that aren't in doubt.
/r/MensRights12/08/13 11:12 PM
2

It's an argument. You don't need sources for arguments, only for facts.
/r/MensRights12/08/13 10:13 PM
2

This describes almost exactly why I went into physics.
/r/MensRights12/08/13 10:12 PM
0

Well then you probably need to educate yourself more.
/r/MensRights12/08/13 10:08 PM
1

Because clearly it is not possible for women to pay for half of the bill.
/r/MensRights12/08/13 09:55 PM
6

It's a term used to denote having your whole worldview challenged, akin to when Neo realizes that the world he lives in isn't real in the matrix. It is used to refer to what happens when people finally stop believing feminism and see what is really going on with regards to gender issues. Once people see that it is amazing how your whole worldview changes.
/r/MensRights12/08/13 01:09 AM
2

The only reason we don't have gas chambers here is because feminists can't do plumbing. (note: this is a joke in response to an obvious troll post).
/r/MensRights12/08/13 01:07 AM
35

This is so fucked up. What makes people think it is okay to have equality in every way except the ways in which you receive special treatment?
/r/MensRights11/08/13 08:40 PM
1

Far too many people have a negative view if MRAs True. in large part because there are some important things to be negative about. I don't buy this. Warren Farrell, perhaps one of the most nice, moderate and conciliatory towards feminism MRA's is extremely maligned by feminists, and they even attempted to stop him speaking at the university of toronto. I don't see any reason to think that the anger of MRA's is what is hurting the movement, rather attitudes towards men who stick up for themselves…
/r/MensRights11/08/13 07:22 PM
2

There is a place for good argument, but there is also a place for anger, mockery, and rhetoric, especially when the people we are fighting do not change their minds based upon reason. I see no problem with using mockery as long as we have logical reasons to back up our positions if questioned. I'm concerned with a trend here which justifies the existence of men's rights with anecdotal evidence or sources articles which are alarmingly self-affirming. The main MRA issues are quite well established…
/r/MensRights11/08/13 07:17 PM
1

These feminists are just a random sample of feminists. They all say they care about men's rights, but are not willing to do anything at all to support them, or willing to stop supporting bigots or spreading anti-male messages. When you have a discussion about the feminist campaigns that imply all men are rapists and someone agrees with you, but refuses to remove things with that message on them from their presentation you have to question their sincerity.
/r/MensRights11/08/13 02:12 PM
0

I don't quite know what you are trying to say. Of course spending less means a lower quality of life, all else being equal. But having more time off and making all the choices women make that result in lower pay typically increase quality of life. In the end I don't see much reason to think that either sex is worse off. Of course things like the bias in family courts and the lack of paternal rights might change some of the wage gap if fixed, but the wage gap is not a problem on it's own.
/r/MensRights11/08/13 04:10 AM
0

Or, gasp, women could just spend less than men. I don't see how an average earnings difference implies that women must force men to pay for them in relationships.
/r/MensRights11/08/13 03:29 AM
0

It's possible that this is an unsolvable issue Why is this even an issue? Who is harmed by the genders not making the same choices?
/r/MensRights11/08/13 01:27 AM
1

Nice.
/r/MensRights10/08/13 10:10 PM
2

I don't think it is a good idea to try to find common ground with bigots. My personal experience is that feminists will concede points in arguments if you spend enough time being nice to them, but are absolutely unwilling to change anything about their behavior, or to speak out against other feminists, and will almost certainly spread the same opinions they had before your discussion after you leave. Given this I think most feminists who agree with MRA's in the real world do it out of cowardice …
/r/MensRights10/08/13 10:09 PM
3

I cannot see the logic behind most feminist advocacy if the real goal is something other than to demonize men.
/r/MensRights10/08/13 10:04 PM
1

Well I suppose you are doing something, although I think if you talked to most men you would find that they would rather the unfair feminist propaganda and unfair anti-male laws stop than men get help with rape (in fact I view this as largely a creating of the same ridiculous views of rape that feminists use to exaggerate rape statistics). In 10 years either feminism will be a dirty word or little will have changed.
/r/MensRights10/08/13 10:02 PM
5

You mean the academics who created the wage gap myth, the myth that women are the majority of domestic violence victims, and greatly exaggerated rape statistics like the 1 in 4 mary Koss study? I haven't really seen much difference between the academics and the feminists on the ground aside from the fact that the academics are somewhat better at hiding the extremes of their bigotry.
/r/MensRights10/08/13 09:59 PM
2

They shouldn't only not be shamed, they shouldn't have to pay child support. And it isn't always easy to tell who will actually respect your opinion when the cards are down. You may have slept with many people who you were mistake about.
/r/MensRights10/08/13 09:55 PM
4

The techniques he uses to rationalize his theories are evidence, reason, and good arguments. Feminists did not invent any of these things, and in fact are not big fans of them most of the time. you are citing a huge proponent of feminist critical theory. Are you just inferring that looking at gender roles =feminist theory? Because I am wondering what you consider feminist critical theory to be. It would help if you defined the term. There's a big difference between academic feminism You mean the…
/r/MensRights10/08/13 09:53 PM
2

The right to have an abortion only helps men if a woman chooses to respect the man's wishes. Men should have a way to opt out of fatherhood post pregnancy and shouldn't be dependent upon the good will of the woman to take their wishes into account.
/r/MensRights10/08/13 09:47 PM
1

I think it is definitely a female issue, because it means that women have the option to not become parents after a pregnancy, while men don't, and must simply trust the woman to treat them fairly in this area.
/r/MensRights10/08/13 09:04 PM
1

In nursing you also get to work with people and the work is somewhat more varied than programming. I also think it is likely more fulfilling.
/r/MensRights10/08/13 08:56 PM
1

Really? Why is that?
/r/MensRights10/08/13 08:47 PM
1

How much fulfillment you get from it, and how much you need to sacrifice to it. Thinks like flexibility, stress level, time off, commute time and so on.
/r/MensRights10/08/13 08:39 PM
1

Not really. The desirability of the work is a huge factor in the compensation.
/r/MensRights10/08/13 08:17 PM
1

There are more obvious differences, like willingness to relocate, and just how much you value pay as opposed to things like work environment. But I totally agree with your point.
/r/MensRights10/08/13 08:15 PM
3

Those studies do not control for all differences. For example, men are more willing to relocate and have less job security. Of course if you don't account for all factors you are going to find a wage gap. There is no reason to think the pay gap is a result of discrimination rather than a result of things like men's greater willingness to relocate.
/r/MensRights10/08/13 08:13 PM
3

It is also not an answer that most MRA's would agree with.
/r/MensRights10/08/13 08:10 PM
3

Feminists are not natural enemies to Men's issues, rather they are potentially the closest allies. Name one organized feminist group that doesn't ban people who try to bring an MRA perspective. Feminists are not natural enemies to Men's issues, rather they are potentially the closest allies. Yea, that's what I believed too, until I learned more about what feminism actually does, and saw their reaction to me bringing a male perspective.
/r/MensRights10/08/13 08:07 PM
2

You can believe that women shouldn't be oppressed or victimized by their gender and believe the same for men. Yes, but you can't believe in patriarchy theory and not be bigoted against men. Just because some self-described feminists hate men doesn't mean anyone who considers themselves a feminist has to do the same. Most don't hate men, they just don't care about them and will take away rights from them if it benefits women at all.
/r/MensRights10/08/13 08:05 PM
2

r/feminism is pretty similar to the vast majority of feminist organizations, and to what feminism does. The feminists who do nothing and don't speak out against other feminists are irrelevant to the definition of the term.
/r/MensRights10/08/13 08:03 PM
1

Implying that it's a purely female issue and that men who are pro-choice are only fighting for the rights of women rather basic human rights is bizarre to me. Plenty of women tend to be against abortion.
/r/MensRights10/08/13 08:02 PM
3

What analytic tools developed by feminists actually contribute anything to human knowledge or understanding of anything. They're just using the analytical tools developed by feminists to also find Men's issues. So does basic logic and principals of fairness count as developed by feminists now, despite the fact that feminists often don't use them?
/r/MensRights10/08/13 07:59 PM
0

What are you doing to help us? The civil rights movement didn't succeed by joining the KKK and trying to make it more moderate.
/r/MensRights10/08/13 07:57 PM
1

Why do you respect women more?
/r/MensRights09/08/13 02:03 AM
1

Why?
/r/MensRights08/08/13 11:07 PM
1

In this analogy feminists are like the KKK, except that they have a huge degree more power and use it to prevent men's issues from getting attention.
/r/MensRights08/08/13 03:31 AM
1

Yes, it isn't beneficial to either party. But feminists portray history as men oppressing women, which ignores the fact that the male role had plenty of disadvantages.
/r/MensRights08/08/13 03:01 AM
1

They couldn't vote, and weren't forced to die for their country in wars. Somehow everyone ignores that fact though. There are a huge number of female advantages that get ignored, and the exaggeration of the disadvantages women faced only makes the picture more distorted.
/r/MensRights08/08/13 02:28 AM
1

Basically that women were never oppressed like feminism says they were. Men and women had different roles, each with advantages and disadvantages. Feminism came along, ignored all the disadvantages of the male role and removed most of the disadvantages of the female role. In addition, feminism spreads a narrative about how men oppressed women for thousands of years, which is just not true. Also there is almost no evidence that women are paid less for the same work, women are not abused in relati…
/r/MensRights07/08/13 11:35 PM
8

You are doing a lot of preaching for someone who hasn't really read up on the issues from a non-feminist perspective (which granted is hard to find these days). I suggest you read the sidebar. Basically, a lot of what feminists tell you about women's issues, and the way they treat men's issues isn't true. You won't really understand the MRM till you look closely at some of these issues and realize how feminists are misrepresenting the truth.
/r/MensRights07/08/13 02:36 AM
0

misogyny I actually consider this a compliment, considering that treating with anything like fairness gets called you misogynist these days. Trying to determine whether a person is actually a victim is not blaming them. Feminists call it victim blaming to ever question a women's story of victimization, even in court. The only way to not victim blame is to assume women are always telling the truth, and, contrary to what feminists like to pretend, false rape accusations happen. I'm referring to cl…
/r/MensRights07/08/13 02:18 AM
0

there are many feminists who oppose this stance. None who oppose it vocally. What individual feminists say to their friends when confronted is irrelevant to what defines feminism as a whole. You're correct that the statistics regarding sexual assaults are skewed (for many reasons, including men being less likely to identify themselves as victims), but even if we account for this, men would still be more likely to be the perpetrator. Actually if you use current feminists ridiculous definitions of…
/r/MensRights06/08/13 11:21 PM
2

No, because a few men in power does not mean that men as a group have control over everything, especially when they are beholden to the voters. It also doesn't change the fact that it is systematic discrimination based upon gender. If FGM is done mostly by women it is still a problem.
/r/MensRights05/08/13 06:43 PM
7

Except that they only use those arguments when specifically arguing with anti-feminists, and they never specifically state the feminists they don't like and distance themselves from them.
/r/MensRights05/08/13 06:32 PM
7

Exactly. So the feminist claim that having attractive women and powerful men is what is driving women away from male media and is harmful to women is total crap, because women like very similar things. The only difference is that in the female novels all of the violence happens off screen, which would make for bad games.
/r/MensRights05/08/13 01:35 AM
3

And many women have no issue with women looking attractive when they buy things like romance novels. But when it occurs in male media it is another excuse to vilify male tastes, so feminists obviously jump to criticize it.
/r/MensRights05/08/13 01:29 AM
5

Yes, things targeted towards men focus more on the male side of having power and getting women because of it. However in the way the genders interact the two mediums are very similar, which seems to contradict the feminist claim that having sexy women and powerful men is solely a male power fantasy.
/r/MensRights05/08/13 01:10 AM
4

Not only that, but the main thing that the women give typically is sex. Chris rock jokingly said that since the man has become accustomed to sex every so often that should continue after the divorce.
/r/MensRights04/08/13 08:29 PM
5

Those facts about criminal courts don't do anything to disprove the statements that men are discriminated against. In fact, many of the facts listed don't even look at whether that is true for men either. For example, if you count drug dealing as an economic crime it is quite possible that men tend to commit economic crimes as well. I am also sure that most male criminals didn't have wonderful childhoods. Men receive much longer sentences for the same crimes. None of those facts, even if they ar…
/r/MensRights04/08/13 04:33 PM
10

The whole section on divorce is idiotic. In most marriages men bring more monetary value to a relationship and women bring more in terms of other things, like cooking, cleaning, having sex and raising the children. Why should the man continue to pay the woman when all her obligations end?
/r/MensRights04/08/13 04:27 PM
4

If someone says they don't like chocolate and then goes and buys it all the time it isn't ignorance at all to say they are lying or in denial about what they like. That is the whole point of bringing up how men are portrayed in the things women actually buy. There are plenty of female characters whose primary attribute is their sexuality in things like twilight, which are targeted towards women. In fact if anything male media portray women better in this regard since female superheroes actually …
/r/MensRights04/08/13 04:19 PM
6

The author of this comic is a man. And I think many women are in denial about their actual preferences in men. If you look at the choices women actually make in games like WOW they pick the sexy races far more than men do. Women aren't interested in certain games for other reasons and this get's shoehorned into the feminist narrative about how male preferences in how the sexes are portrayed are bad and men are assholes who don't see women as people.
/r/MensRights04/08/13 04:12 PM
2

No, they say the objectification of men isn't a problem because it is targeted towards men.
/r/MensRights04/08/13 04:09 PM
0

I am going to need sources for your claims about women's interest in these media before I take you seriously. Also, maybe you should read the image you are responding too. Those guys in the romance novels are very built, to the same extent as many comic book characters.
/r/MensRights04/08/13 04:06 PM
8

WOMEN LIKE SEXY FEMALE CHARACTERS God I am so sick of people using this as a reason for women's under representation in gaming, when in reality women are more likely to pick sexy races in games like WOW.
/r/MensRights04/08/13 04:02 PM
8

Women like sexy female characters. I see no reason to think that this is why they don't play games or read comics as much.
/r/MensRights04/08/13 03:50 PM
1

Historically each sex had different roles each with different responsibilities and rights. Feminism came along and tried to give women all the advantages of the male role while ignoring and maintaining (or even increasing) the advantages of the female role. Because of this feminism has never been about equality, or it would have acknowledged from the start the disadvantages men faced and tried to fix both sets of problems at the same time, as they are intrinsically linked. The MRM is a reaction …
/r/MensRights04/08/13 05:39 AM
1

I would love to see someone name me twenty female comicbook characters who are fully clothed, all females either have an exposed chest, or exposed legs, or something of the sort. Are you honestly expecting comics not to represent the fact that in real life women wear more revealing outfits? Women tend to wear more revealing clothing. Get over it. If you have a problem with this move to saudi arabia. What is at issue is the body image of the male and female characters. And clearly, women prefer "…
/r/MensRights04/08/13 05:34 AM
5

This is an amazing graphic and should be spread around every time the "male power fantasy" argument is brought up.
/r/MensRights04/08/13 04:25 AM
1

Society needs them, but society should get them be rewarding them and treating the with respect, not by abusing the natural tendency of young men to want to be heroic and help others.
/r/MensRights04/08/13 04:18 AM
3

And being attractive isn't? I also don't really see that sacrificing yourself and partaking in acts of violence to save other people is really a sensible thing for men to be told to do, especially given how people see men these days.
/r/MensRights03/08/13 10:10 PM
3

Do any of them believe in patriarchy? Because if so they are anti-male. Also, if they believe that the wage gap is caused by discrimination, that 1 in 4 women is raped, or that domestic violence is primarily male on female they are almost certainly anti-male.
/r/MensRights03/08/13 10:08 PM
2

I don't know if I agree with that. Many body builders harm their bodies immensely by using steroids. Also, the height is a huge aspect of it. I might as well that one could look like barbie without the extremely skinny waste and the breast proportions.
/r/MensRights03/08/13 10:02 PM
3

Well where do you go? I have yet to find a feminist organization which isn't anti-male.
/r/MensRights03/08/13 10:00 PM
4

Actually I have only ever seen them use the notion in situations like the left side of this image. I see no evidence that they would even have created such a concept if the didn't need to blame men for the way in which both genders are portrayed.
/r/MensRights03/08/13 09:58 PM
3

On the contrary, almost all feminist advocacy seems to me to be primarily interested in demonizing men. Feminists use incredibly flawed measures of rape rates, and constantly exaggerate how much of a problem it is. If I were a woman I would want correct information about the risks I face, not sensationalism that would make me more afraid than I am. The only reason to exaggerate the rates this much is to demonize men and make women seem to be greater victims than they are in order to get funding.…
/r/MensRights03/08/13 09:42 PM
3

Google male power fantasy to see feminist argue that male portrayals in the media are different and not a problem because they are men's fault.
/r/MensRights03/08/13 09:35 PM
4

the generalizations you make about feminists serve no purpose in getting my voice as an individual heard. The person who opened the first domestic violence shelter in the UK realized that domestic violence was equal between the genders, yet received death threats from feminists when she tried to spread this idea. There is a multitude of research that measures domestic violence parity, and yet feminists still treat it as a women's issue. And you want us to ignore all this and not call out the big…
/r/MensRights03/08/13 09:33 PM
1

Yes, society view men and women as different. Generally there is a lot more pressure on guys to succeed, compete, and risk themselves in order to achieve certain things that women are just granted automatically. Men's struggle to achieve these things, as well as the villain aspect of men who try to achieve them in villainous ways makes for more interesting stories, because there is more at stake. Since there is no obligation on women to try to protect the other gender or take risks in order to e…
/r/MensRights03/08/13 09:08 PM
2

Read the sidebar. Particularly about how feminists fight against men's issues.
/r/MensRights03/08/13 09:05 PM
3

How do they define rape culture? Because I don't see how making vulgar advances at women has much to do with rape. And let's be honest... this makes men appear predatory and/or, even though I hate to use the word, 'creepy'. Is there appearance what really matters in this discussion? Also, a large part of how they are perceived can be effected by what our preconceived notions of what men are like are.
/r/MensRights03/08/13 06:55 PM
4

Boys aren't presented with being strong, tough, heroic and protecting women while looking like he-man as ideals to strive for?
/r/MensRights03/08/13 06:36 PM
0

Wherever they use lies about domestic violence, like the super bowl myth, or the myth that men are more violent in relationships than women feminists are making the stereotypes of men as violent and not to be trusted worse. They then use these lies as justification for not trying to ensure that men receive custody. Feminism also claimed that it was fighting for equality and so the MRM wasn't needed for many years, and this stopped male issues from getting attention for many years. The standard f…
/r/MensRights03/08/13 06:27 PM
1

Science has progressed far enough to disprove the belief that men and women are mentally the same if raised in the same way. But social scientists and feminists are great at ignoring things if it isn't politically correct to say them.
/r/MensRights03/08/13 06:27 PM
5

Equality does involve youfeminism doing SOMETHING you know, and not just FOR menwomen, but actively FOR womenmen too. So why don't you have a problem with the fact that feminism has done nothing about any area in which men have it worse, and in fact actually tries to increase female advantages? Mainly, not seeing things as a fight between men and women over 'who has it worse', that isn't helping anyone. I am not really interested in that fight, however given that the predominant narrative is tha…
/r/MensRights03/08/13 06:25 PM
3

Well women buy them don't they?
/r/MensRights03/08/13 06:16 PM
1

Personally I am more anti-feminist than MR. If you are curious as too why I would be happy to explain it too you.
/r/MensRights03/08/13 05:39 PM
4

Well considering feminists claimed that a men's movement wasn't needed as feminism was for equality for many years, yes, they are hypocrites.
/r/MensRights03/08/13 05:38 PM
3

Barbie is marketed towards girls, and if you look at things like romance novels women clearly like the image of very muscular guys. You are attributing ways in which both sexes like to be portrayed and see the other portrayed to just men, which is probably why you are being downvoted.
/r/MensRights03/08/13 05:37 PM
9

Well they could stop fighting against men's issues, portraying them as insignificant, and actually making them worse. Or is that too much to ask?
/r/MensRights03/08/13 05:35 PM
54

Feminists use unrealistic body images as a part of their argument why women have it harder, and why the MRM isn't needed.
/r/MensRights03/08/13 05:34 PM
1

There might be small differences in how people turn out depending upon whether they were encouraged to do so or not, but I don't think it is really that significant compared to the biological aspects. Most of the social aspects that people blame for differences in behavior between the genders are actually effects of biological differences rather than consequences of them, and so attempting to remove them will never really do much. Personally, I don't think I was encouraged to be mathematical at …
/r/MensRights03/08/13 05:32 PM
2

I have had things yelled at me from cars on the street as well, and have also had strangers drive up to me and ask me if I wanted to go to prom with them (I am a man). I think some of it probably has to do with idiocy. But a lot of it might be men and women trying to learn to get over their fear and nervousness around the other sex, by at least practicing saying things to them in a little to no risk situation. It's unrealistic, but I think it might help some people get over the nervousness that …
/r/MensRights03/08/13 02:40 PM
1

In my experience those rap songs are only describing reality. I grew up expecting not to have to buy sex or accept a lesser role in relationships in order to get it, but learned eventually that most relationships do not work this way. but making the female less than human I don't see how being paid for makes you less than human. I actually think cosmo is the least of the factors making women feel entitled in relationships with men. Feminism teaches women that men oppressed women for thousands of…
/r/MensRights03/08/13 03:03 AM
2

For example, men are taught, like everybody, that a relationship is about both people trying to make it work and is an equal effort This isn't what I was taught, and I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone saying this to men these days. then bombarded with the message that their ability to get a girl revolves around their ability to spend money on her, the more money you have the more girls you get. It is not just money. There are many other things you can be expected to do in order to …
/r/MensRights03/08/13 12:33 AM
5

It sounds to me like you don't really know much about feminism.
/r/MensRights03/08/13 12:28 AM
6

The short answer is that people tend to care about women more than men. The same force behind chivalry is what caused feminism to be so successful, even to the point of making women have advantages over men.
/r/MensRights03/08/13 12:26 AM
3

It's probably because feminists attack the MRM so often.
/r/MensRights03/08/13 12:25 AM
-1

What women's problems are anything near as large as men's problems? In fact I would say that a large number of them are just the side effects of female privileges.
/r/MensRights03/08/13 12:24 AM
8

And we have to have all characters being developed at all times? Women are a goal for many men, and if we have a story focusing on a man overcoming challenges, why can't we use this particular goal?
/r/MensRights02/08/13 03:53 AM
14

Why is that trope bad?
/r/MensRights02/08/13 03:43 AM
3

You would be wrong. They want to say and think that they believe in equality, but when it comes down to doing anything that will even not help women as much they tend to not be in favor of it.
/r/MensRights02/08/13 03:35 AM
3

Feminists generally don't hold any of their beliefs based upon logic, debate to them is merely trying to make up reasons for things they believe based upon emotions. That is why they get so upset in debates, because it is uncomfortable to be shown how irrational and bigoted you are.
/r/MensRights02/08/13 02:07 AM
3

How is this different from what the MRA is doing? If you are against bad data you should be anti-feminist.
/r/MensRights02/08/13 02:06 AM
3

"I don't hate jews, I just believe they run everything, hold everyone else down, and that everyone else deserves special treatment over them"
/r/MensRights02/08/13 02:03 AM
3

Other than the possibility of false domestic violence allegations, and women being domestically violent I don't think there is any reason.
/r/MensRights02/08/13 01:59 AM
9

So why do video games need to change, and not, for example romance novels? Both genders like traditionalist plot lines sometimes, and insisting that only male media portray women in some feminist friendly, totally unrealistic, and totally out of touch with reality way is sexism.
/r/MensRights02/08/13 01:57 AM
8

Even if you do agree with her that games need more interesting plot lines, and that the damsel in distress plot needs to stop being used the argument that men need to change the media they consume because it hurts women is typical feminist crap. If you think people would enjoy games more with better plot lines, make that argument, or if you think games would sell more, make that one. Neither of those arguments would be blaming men for the way the genders are or demanding that men only purchase t…
/r/MensRights02/08/13 01:54 AM
1

I was just saying that I don't think requiring one is that ridiculous, given that no other physical evidence can determine whether a woman gave her consent or not.
/r/MensRights02/08/13 01:53 AM
1

No. But I do think it would require rape shield laws to be repealed.
/r/MensRights02/08/13 01:35 AM
5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kJ-Pe0VVhY
/r/MensRights02/08/13 01:26 AM
1

I tend to believe that people should not be put in jail unless proved guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, not in trying to keep conviction rates at a certain level.
/r/MensRights02/08/13 01:22 AM
1

Can a rape kit differentiate between consensual sex and rape?
/r/MensRights01/08/13 11:22 PM
1

How else would one prove an accusation or rape? Or should we just take every accusation to be true?
/r/MensRights01/08/13 11:03 PM
1

No, saying having time off is a disadvantage because you might have to pay to do something fun is entitlement. Some people don't even have time to take holidays.
/r/MensRights01/08/13 10:52 PM
1

I think it is unconscious enough to not apply when we are merely told the author of a particular comment is a woman.
/r/MensRights01/08/13 01:35 AM
5

Of course, because chivalry required women acknowledge what men were doing for them and be grateful.
/r/MensRights01/08/13 01:28 AM
1

Normal Ie they are feminists and support the ability of women to use these powers, but swear they will never use them (until of course it suits them).
/r/MensRights01/08/13 01:20 AM
1

My issue with false rape accusations is that we live in a false accusation culture, where men are seen as bad if they make any advances on women that the women didn't want, even if they had no way of knowing. Also, feminists are trying to change the definition of rape so that making an accusation after sex means you were raped. In this situation false accusation wouldn't exist because all it would take is an accusation to make a man guilty of rape.
/r/MensRights01/08/13 01:19 AM
2

simply because women are smaller and weaker than men. This would be true, if not for the fact that men are biologically programmed, conditioned, and in fact legally forced to not hit women even in self defense.
/r/MensRights01/08/13 01:12 AM
2

Male and female gender politics are not isolated, but are intrinsically linked. So pushing for more and more benefits and privileges for women, as feminism has done, will in many cases harm men. The goal should be deconstructing, or at least diminishing, these stereotypes rather than bickering over which gender is most disadvantaged by them. How is feminism fighting these stereotypes in general? Feminists fight against any of these stereotypes that effect women, but they don't actually do anythi…
/r/MensRights01/08/13 01:10 AM
1

In Canada affirmative action that favors men is illegal, while such action that favors women isn't.
/r/MensRights01/08/13 12:40 AM
0

You don't have to travel during the holidays, you are perfectly able to live cheaply during that time. Honestly, saying that having vacation time is a downside reeks of entitlement to me.
/r/MensRights01/08/13 12:29 AM
1

I don't think that romance novel covers tend to portray men as you describe It sounds to me like you are going based upon the characters women say they like. I have found women's stated preferences to be an extremely poor source for information on what women are attracted too.
/r/MensRights30/07/13 03:34 AM
1

In academia where you get fired for suggesting anything anti-feminist, "experts" still use poor methodology to find women are at a disadvantage! Surprise Surprise!
/r/MensRights30/07/13 02:57 AM
1

I do agree it is unfair that jobs that are viewed as being traditionally female in general get paid less, I am a teacher after all, but we made our choices knowing what was in store. They get paid less because these jobs typically have very high good non-monetary factors making them desirable. Teachers have the opportunity for summers off, a decent work life balance, teaching can be very rewarding, teachers don't typically have to relocate that much, teachers typically get good benefits, and tea…
/r/MensRights30/07/13 02:55 AM
1

Agreed. I don't think there are good reasons to believe any of the wage gap is due to discrimination. In fact discrimination could even favor women.
/r/MensRights30/07/13 02:52 AM
1

Show me any evidence that any of the wage gap is due to discrimination. No-one ever demonstrates this, they expect that any unexplained gap can just be assumed to be due to discrimination, even when there are a multitude of factors that haven't been taken into account.
/r/MensRights30/07/13 02:51 AM
1

systemic differences in salaries can't possibly be based on the candidates actual job performance. Only on differences in the preferences of the people making the choices. If men are more willing to relocate, more willing to work longer hours, more willing to work outdoors, more willing to commute longer, and value money more than other factors like job satisfaction we would expect that to have a large effect on the wages of people right out of college.
/r/MensRights30/07/13 02:49 AM
1

I think you are misunderstanding their "logic". Feminists believe that women are just as good as men at everything, and better at many things, so clearly any area in which men are the majority (if it is a positive thing) must be due to discrimination.
/r/MensRights30/07/13 02:16 AM
13

One of the ways said rights are infringed upon is by misrepresenting the truth about the amount of power women had, which enables men's issues to be ignored as, according to this belief, they are the issues of the privileged and therefore insignificant. Ergo this post is entirely relevant to Men's rights, and if you were more aware of the situation regarding how men's rights are infringed upon you would realize this.
/r/MensRights30/07/13 02:08 AM
12

A large part of the MR agenda is challenging the feminist narrative that women have had no say in how things are run and have been oppressed by men. This post is providing information that challenges those ideas. This would be obvious to anyone who has spend time in the MRM. Perhaps you should wait till you actually are familiar with a movement before you tell people what it should be about.
/r/MensRights30/07/13 12:27 AM
2

Good article. My preferred way to counter ridiculous "Male power fantasy" arguments is to point to the covers of romance novels, which are almost entirely read by women. The men and women on them are portrayed with the same body types as the men and women in supposedly male media. Both genders like to imagine being attractive to the opposite sex, and powerful men are attractive to women.
/r/MensRights30/07/13 12:22 AM
1

Actually, being a feminist basically prevents you from being for equality.
/r/MensRights28/07/13 03:19 PM
17

I find that even if you put the concepts into words the vast majority of feminists won't change their minds. Making the actual arguments takes practice. I find r/mensrights is a good place to practice and find how people tend to respond to typical feminist arguments. You can even ask how people respond to a particular point.
/r/MensRights26/07/13 02:30 AM
1

You are going to need to cite some sources for the statements you are making about the male and female brain at birth and the brain developing in the way you say it does. This paper seems to say the exact opposite. Also, even if the brain was actually the same that wouldn't be reason to expect that the genders don't act differently. Differences in the brain could come not from differences in usage, as you suggest, but from differences in hormones, the same way other sex differences come about. I…
/r/MensRights24/07/13 01:56 AM
1

The truth is in the middle, where it has always been. The truth isn't always in the middle.
/r/MensRights24/07/13 01:51 AM
1

You literally just said "I disagree with that" to the first few points in that link and then didn't read the rest because of it. Also, a large majority of men get joint custody when they actually ask for it. I assume you are referring to the 70% statistic. And that isn't for men who ask for it, it is for men who fight for it. Men who seek custody might not do it because they know they will not win and don't have the money to fight. Also, 70% having some measure of control and visitation rights t…
/r/MensRights24/07/13 01:40 AM
0

You would probably argue that because you are unaware of the facts. There is little to no evidence that men have an easier time getting hired post college.
/r/MensRights24/07/13 01:27 AM
1

Shall I follow your lead and not take Men's Rights activists seriously at all on the issue of media portrayal of men? The Men's rights movement does not make the same claims about men's treatment in the media that feminism does. The MRM has a few very specific issues, but far fewer issues that feminism. Feminism is actively demanding that movies change in ridiculous ways to meet standards that can never be met.
/r/MensRights24/07/13 01:25 AM
1

The contracts can be void, but you don't get your money back if you have, for example, already consumed the food you bought. They are only void from then on, and not retroactively. Also, the person with whom you signed the contract is not guilty of anything and it is the person who made the decision while inebriated's job to say the contract is invalid.
/r/MensRights24/07/13 01:24 AM
3

I think anyone in favor of equality should be more focused on men's issues these days because years of single sided, bigoted advocacy have made it so men undoubtedly have the shorter end of the stick in western nations.
/r/MensRights23/07/13 12:08 AM
5

Because feminism won't do it, and actually fights against men's issues. Also, they tend to take over men's rights groups.
/r/MensRights23/07/13 12:07 AM
11

The incapacitated rule shouldn't exist in the first place. Deciding to have sex should be treated like any other decision made while drunk: it should be the responsibility of the person making the decision.
/r/MensRights21/07/13 10:31 PM
8

Personally I think that by importing feminism to third world countries with no stability we risk destabilizing the family structure and leaving those countries in a position like the black community in the united states in terms of social patterns. To me this is one of the worst forms of ideological imperialism.
/r/MensRights20/07/13 09:18 PM
3

and the courses were very human equality friendly. It was not all about women, rather about the equality of men and women. We addressed both sides of the spectrum. I highly doubt this. What did you learn about patriarchy theory? About the wage gap? About domestic violence? About men's and women's roles in history? I can almost guarantee that what you learned about these topics is incorrect. In fact some of what you learned is probably outright lies. Why not squelch radical feminism Squelching fe…
/r/MensRights20/07/13 06:33 PM
3

I was simply trying to ask why we encourage separate movements instead of working together as humans. Because feminism is unwilling to deal with men's issues or hear men's side of the issues. Warren Farrell was a two time head of NOW (the largest feminist organization in the US). He eventually realized how feminism didn't acknowledge the male perspective and many of their statements were incorrect, and they promptly kicked him out of the movement. Even today he is a very moderate and feminist fr…
/r/MensRights20/07/13 06:26 PM
4

College level courses that are extremely dominated by feminist thought. Would you trust the communist parties definition of communism to accurately represent the movement? In reality Feminism is not about equality at all. It may appear that way in your college courses, but that is largely because feminists misrepresent the data and only show one side of the arguments to make it seem like they have a point.
/r/MensRights20/07/13 06:23 PM
1

I'm not sure where you're at in your beliefs, but something that helps me stay cool when I'm dealing with some serious woman hating is this: Genders are not real. Biological sexes are real, but gender is a make-believe set of attributes that we have imagined and assigned to the sexes. Most people don't realize this. Gender is one of the major, possibly the major cornerstone of our social reality, and feminists and MRA's are both guilty of assigning gender identity to themselves and others. Most …
/r/MensRights19/07/13 11:33 PM
2

Because it used to be overrun with MRA's until they banned all of us.
/r/MensRights19/07/13 11:30 PM
1

I agree. The father can't just show up without permission any more than any random stranger can.
/r/MensRights19/07/13 11:19 PM
1

They are idiots who don't care at all about men. It took me many years to realize this.
/r/MensRights19/07/13 02:26 AM
1

Hitler-like super The Man Controls Everything DV relationships, which are like, super common. I start to wonder if these happen at all, or if the percentage of relationships that fit this mold is as rare as serial killers are.
/r/MensRights19/07/13 02:22 AM
1

No contact at all, ever, is a bit much don't you think? It should be no contact at all without the kid and mother wanting it to happen.
/r/MensRights19/07/13 02:20 AM
1

And I'd happily join her in her frustration at "deadbeat dads", once I know that these non-paying fathers are all men who CHOSE to be fathers and then shirked their responsibility. I also think many men probably abandon their children because giving the mother that much power and control over their own lives is not worth it too them. You don't get to give up your parental rights but then go and try to be a part of this child's life. I disagree. You give up your rights and your obligations. If th…
/r/MensRights19/07/13 02:19 AM
1

I know I'm going to get down-voted for this, but if you're going to claim the child is not yours, then why the fuck would you want a relationship with him/her? Maybe because you would like to be involved with the child's life and think they have a right to know you somewhat, but don't basically want to be the mothers servant and in her power for the entire life of the child. The problem Marcotte is attempting to address would be men that want to get out of paying for a child, but still want a re…
/r/MensRights19/07/13 02:15 AM
1

See I do agree with you that many feminists don't really know what feminism does, but I think that they don't put in the necessary effort to make sure their beliefs are not anti-male, and many either ignore it or use arguments to try to stop from admitting any fault or changing their behavior. I have also found that when it comes to actually giving up female privileges many moderate feminists refuse to budge on their positions. They don't really care about false rape accusations if dealing with …
/r/MensRights19/07/13 02:04 AM
1

A cop made an offhand comment. This is the only example I know of that could even possibly be construed as victim blaming, and I think it is more likely classified as giving (perhaps misguided) advice. ness about why we shouldn't base how much we respect a person's body on what they're wearing. Giving a woman sexual attention does not mean you don't respect her body. It just means you are attracted to her. And I've met people--women more than men actually--who agree that a woman dressed a certai…
/r/MensRights19/07/13 01:50 AM
2

I think the thing is that MGTOW have tried to open a discussion and it has been rejected by feminism. MGTOW's are sort of like MRA's who have given up on feminism (and by extension most women) ever changing.
/r/MensRights18/07/13 12:18 AM
3

Hate groups are groups that hate groups of people based upon something they can't control. Is a group that hates poverty, racism, and racists a hate group?
/r/MensRights18/07/13 12:05 AM
0

Then you say: Sorry, I just assumed you wouldn't be stupid enough to think that a group is responsible for the actions of everyone else who shares some beliefs with them. I guess I gave you too much credit. Those men were active, virulent anti-feminists. By that logic everyone who is against communism is a supporter of Nazism. Additionally, this entire subreddit and movement is predicted on that notion. Warren Farrel was a self-identified feminist for many years until he was kicked out for rejec…
/r/MensRights17/07/13 11:54 PM
2

Social rules and rules about what is appropriate are not set in stone or written down everywhere. They are a result of everyone's personal preferences, and I don't see a reason why the person, even if touching may have been unusual in that situation, couldn't just politely ask the person to stop.
/r/MensRights17/07/13 11:43 PM
1

Anti-male attitudes are so common place that you probably don't even consider them anti-male, because you haven't thought about it. Do any of your feminist friends believe in patriarchy theory? Because that is a cornerstone of feminism, and is very anti-male. As for victim blaming, feminists confuse not believing every accusation of rape, not thinking that women are somewhat responsible for their actions when drunk, and giving women any advice on how to protect themselves as victim blaming. Any …
/r/MensRights17/07/13 11:41 PM
1

Some "victim blaming" is just disagreeing with the feminist view that women who have anything to drink are raped even if they throw themselves at someone.
/r/MensRights17/07/13 11:38 PM
1

Any particular examples to help your argument? Because at the moment I am not convinced.
/r/MensRights17/07/13 11:37 PM
1

I made a a ton of arguments and statements for my beliefs and the reasons why I hold these convictions though! Oh, you actually believe that crap? Well then these things would go better if you attempted to analyze your own beliefs to make sure they make sense before writing them. Attributing random killers with no connection to the MRM of being MRA's and showing the movement supports violence? Bullshit if anything is. Is this really why you believe Valerie Solanis doesn't mean feminism is more h…
/r/MensRights17/07/13 02:12 AM
0

Well since feminists have had a movement fixing every real and imagined problem women have for the past 50 years any true equality group would focus on men's issues because that is where more immediate good could be done. Many women's issues that remain are likely just consequences of their special advantages over men.
/r/MensRights17/07/13 02:03 AM
9

Thanks feminism.
/r/MensRights17/07/13 01:55 AM
-10

I am one of those people and when others can't respect my boundaries it makes me bristle. And not everyone is like you. Asking for permission every time you touch someone is ridiculous, so you can deal with some people touching you like a mature adult and ask them politely to stop without making a bid deal of it.
/r/MensRights17/07/13 01:54 AM
1

These things would go much better if you had actual reasons for your beliefs, and made actual arguments. Just a heads up for next time. We could have probably concluded this paragraphs ago if you cut out all the pointless bullshit.
/r/MensRights17/07/13 01:52 AM
9

rape culture Doesn't really exist as feminists describe it, and is mainly just a way to exaggerated female victim hood and demonize men. I think the self described feminists you men are more anti-male than you realize.
/r/MensRights17/07/13 01:49 AM
-2

Women are welcome, but won't receive the special treatment they receive elsewhere.
/r/MensRights17/07/13 01:47 AM
1

You asserted it's is biology when I stated that gender is a social construct and listed sources. Uh no you didn't. Who is saying this? This is the standard reaction to men who get jealous. I guess you haven't been paying attention to how women react to it. These behaviors are also listed by police organizations as domestic violence when committed by a man. Uhm, wow. I am not sure you're aware of how much emotional projection you're revealing right now, and It kind of makes me feel...sad that thi…
/r/MensRights16/07/13 02:05 AM
1

Marc Lépine and Anders Brevik Nothing to do with the MRM, even if their ideas are somewhat similar, no MRA's condone their actions. Thomas Ball set himself on fire, hardly as bad as killing other people and he didn't advocate killing all women, unlike solanis. Please at least attempt to make arguments in good faith. You cannot just lump random killers in with the MRM. This isn't some half-washed conspiracy theory about who calls the shots, it is evidenced by who in positions of power and influen…
/r/MensRights16/07/13 01:51 AM
1

Couldn't be further from the truth, and also citations please So you can just make unsubstantiated claims, but when I disagree with them I need citations? Where is your evidence that male feelings are not from biology? Anyone who has studied evolution at all knows that we have strong reasons to expect different behavior in men and women, just like men and women have different bodies. Read the selfish gene, or the red queen effect if you want to learn about biology. (although you probably won't c…
/r/MensRights15/07/13 08:53 PM
1

You too can be a good black, just accept your inferiority and work hard to overcome your natural bad tendencies that are a result of your blackness! We want to help you overcome your inferiority! Where are you getting your facts from? Just decades of experience with feminists. Feminists welcomed Valerie solanis, a woman who advocated killing all men and actually attempted to kill several, into the fold calling her "a true feminist hero". I don't see how calling feminism a hate movement doesn't f…
/r/MensRights15/07/13 08:45 PM
2

I am not disputing that you attend lectures about feminism. However you clearly have no objectivity because you don't want to admit that you have been supporting a hate movement for 15 years.
/r/MensRights15/07/13 05:27 PM
3

Don't you see those are all ill side-effects of toxic masculinity? Oh, so now you know where my feelings come from now do you? What you are saying is that you would "fix" all of his feelings. Speaking as a guy, these feelings are not a result of anything pathological, they are just natural male feelings, that come largely from biology. You can't fix them, all you can do is deal with them. And men can expect no help at all in dealing with them from women. Women will do what you say you would do, …
/r/MensRights15/07/13 05:24 PM
0

You are actually the one who has no idea what feminism is. You are like a Nazi who when they learn about the holocaust deny it and say "you obviously just don't know what Nazism is", and "those people weren't real Nazis".
/r/MensRights15/07/13 05:08 PM
4

Toxic femininity is encouraged by society these days, and is basically the most common way that women act.
/r/MensRights15/07/13 05:04 PM
5

And as far as your assertions that it helps with women, well I am one and I can tell you the opposite is true there also. I value a man who is connected to his feelings, one that doesn't thrive on machismo, one that doesn't see things like "women's work" and who wants to actively parent and cares to nurture children, as well as other great stuff like cooking. We hurt everyone when we put people into gendered defined boxes, period. It's incredibly easy to lie to yourself about what you really wan…
/r/MensRights15/07/13 05:03 PM
1

You offered me two links, one to a traditional conservative blog, and another to one calling feminists harpies yet you have the audacity to say you're seeking a logically-rigorous argument? Because it is totally rational to not listen to arguments based upon their sources. Of course any argument not by a feminist must be garbage amIright?
/r/MensRights15/07/13 04:58 PM
6

We hide our emotions because people don't care about them, and because it is often a better way to live.
/r/MensRights15/07/13 02:26 AM
7

Exactly. Being stoic is a good thing in many cases, and is needed for men because people don't care about them even if they are total idiots like society does for women. Masculinity is not a problem, the lack of help society gives men and the general anti-male attitude of society is the problem.
/r/MensRights15/07/13 02:24 AM
11

Society doesn't poison the minds of males, it forces men to be stoic by not offering them the things they need if they aren't stoic. This is especially true in relationships.
/r/MensRights15/07/13 02:22 AM
10

Men don't feel and express feelings because society will not give them support if they open up, and because people generally don't care as much about men as they do about women. Rigid definitions of masculinity enforced by other men are a way of dealing with this, not the problem.
/r/MensRights15/07/13 02:21 AM
-3

Men who police other men's emotions are doing them a favor, because the fact is if men don't get their shit together and act like real men they will suffer greatly in society, especially when it comes to their relationships with women. Strict definitions of masculinity are a reaction to the underlying problem, which is that society doesn't care about men unless they are successful and don't need help.
/r/MensRights15/07/13 02:19 AM
2

I think it was on a FBI report on rape false accusations and/or rape. I don't have the link on hand. Try googling it.
/r/MensRights15/07/13 02:05 AM
1

I am not sure what you mean.
/r/MensRights14/07/13 08:10 PM
3

It's not even .2% it's 2-8 % proven false beyond a reasonable doubt. And that is only of accusations reported to the police.
/r/MensRights14/07/13 08:06 PM
1

The way the person is using the statistic here is just a lie. 1 in 4 is a study is a study with extremely poor methodology that counts rapes not reported to the police.
/r/MensRights14/07/13 08:05 PM
6

It is ridiculous to be civil to those who are trying to fight against you with no compassion for you or respect for facts.
/r/MensRights13/07/13 07:34 AM
3

It won't. Women aren't bothered by that as much because they know men will never even be able to come close to their ability to play the victim, and it allows them to pretend to be treating everyone equally.
/r/MensRights13/07/13 02:16 AM
1

Women will work in textiles and they will need to read and be literate. They will create the basis of growth in wages. You said it. That's just not true, industrialization increases wages over time, that's why it's used to develop countries. Eventually it does, usually after the government intervenes and redistributes some of the surplus of the companies. However, a couple billion people covet those jobs, so perhaps you are disconnected from how shitty it is to work on a third world farm? If tho…
/r/MensRights13/07/13 01:36 AM
1

There are not that many women being educated in Afghanistan, it will be a decades long process that needs to gain traction. So now educating women, which you initially said is going to make Afghanistan develop, is a hindrance to development? That's the process we've seen throughout the whole world. Industrialization has been accompanied by low wages, but this is because the need for labor is reduced by industrialization, not because low wages lead to it. What quality of life? Well whatever the q…
/r/MensRights12/07/13 11:23 PM
1

Sure, both sexes can be nurturing and disciplinary, but each sex tends to fulfill a different role as parents. The stuff that men typically do is very undervalued these days, to the point what women typically do is what is seen as parenting.
/r/MensRights12/07/13 11:19 PM
1

Do you understand how long it would take for the birth rate to begin responding? Do you know how long it would take for Afghanistan to develop? Also, you didn't address the contradiction that you said education leads to higher wages and economic independence for women, while now you are saying low wages are necessary. Foreign aid brings capital into Afghanistan so there can be factories. No, foreign aid feeds people and makes them less desperate so labor costs will go up because they won't be wi…
/r/MensRights12/07/13 01:38 PM
1

So your plan is to create cheap labor in Afghanistan by educating women and reducing the birth rate (both things which you said will increase wages). Not only are the things you are saying incorrect now you are also contradicting yourself. There are also far better ways to create cheap labor, such as cutting foreign aid and making it so that people starve if they don't work. Women will be forced to work then out of necessity. To start industrialization you need wages to be so exploitative that y…
/r/MensRights12/07/13 12:05 PM
1

This is a place for people to discuss things related to men's rights. Not everything needs to be hugely insightful or super serious. There are posts about a wide variety of things. The good arguments in support of the MRM's points have been made so many times that most regulars here have seen them. If you want to start a discussion on any particular topic, post a question.
/r/MensRights12/07/13 04:15 AM
2

Why are we comparing men and women directly. Women are of course better at mothering. Fathers have a different role and it is just essential to raising well adjusted children to adulthood. Too often these days people associate parenting with mothering, when being a father is a different and equally important job.
/r/MensRights12/07/13 04:12 AM
68

Because double standards.
/r/MensRights12/07/13 02:01 AM
5

You should not have sex with someone who cannot consent, you should not rape. You also should not imply that members of a group have a tendency to commit crimes. What if I made an add campaign targeting gay men saying things like "Just because you are gay doesn't mean you can touch me". It would clearly be homophobic. Also, the original campaign does not do anything to clarify the situation regarding drunk sex and consent, and merely muddies the waters further. Drunk sex happens all the time, an…
/r/MensRights12/07/13 12:04 AM
1

So you admit that lower birthrates are not a cause of development. Good. Now why are we educating women again if education is not needed in order to fill the development jobs and it only reduces birthrates which is already done naturally when countries develop?
/r/MensRights11/07/13 11:58 PM
2

I do not think women working was a requirement to Germany's development however. So clearly countries can develop without women working. I don't know how you can argue that women working is essential for development given this example. In fact, if we are assuming development can only happen in ways which have happened before (which seems to be the basis for your argument) then we may as well argue that development cannot happen unless women don't have the vote and men have the control that they …
/r/MensRights11/07/13 11:57 PM
2

That link says the birth rates of developed countries started reducing in 1950, which indicates that it is an effect rather than a cause of development.
/r/MensRights11/07/13 01:52 PM
0

But you haven't demonstrated any link at all between fewer children being had and development.
/r/MensRights11/07/13 06:10 AM
2

Children were sent to work in textiles as much as women. Actually most of the women who worked in factories were under the age of twenty. It isn't even acknowledged that women's labor force participation did rise. It is becoming more and more clear that you don't have enough knowledge of history to make the claims you were making in the absence of evidence. If you are not going to provide evidence and/or address the rest of my challenges I am not going to continue this argument further. Finally …
/r/MensRights11/07/13 06:09 AM
2

Your claim that industrialization and better quality of life happens because women working decreases birth rates is also at odds with the fact that the rate of population increase didn't drop during the industrial revolution, in fact it increased.
/r/MensRights11/07/13 05:58 AM
2

Richard Arkwirght Is English, and opened a mill in England. How is he supposed to have started the textile industry in Germany? The textile industry was not the foundation of industrialization in Germany. You also have not addressed any of my other points, such as the fact that your argument that women working is needed for development could equally well apply to children working, since a huge number of children worked in those early textile factories, or numerous other criticisms I have made. Y…
/r/MensRights11/07/13 05:47 AM
5

Nope. Unwanted sex is not rape. Rape is sex which wasn't consented too. I doubt very much that prostitutes want to have sex with all their clients, but because they consent it isn't rape. Also, if you regret the sex afterwords it isn't rape, and it isn't rape if you don't enjoy it, despite what feminists want us to think. Isn't it true that the rate of false accusations is around 2%? No. The rate of accusations that can be shown to be false after a cursory investigation is around 8%. We don't kn…
/r/MensRights11/07/13 05:11 AM
0

I was looking for a citation for the statement that heavy industries cannot be used to develop a country. You don't believe textiles were created in any other country but England? Obviously I was talking about industrial manufacture of textiles, which is the only part of textile manufacture relevant to our argument. I see you haven't provided evidence for any of the other points you listed so I am now going to disregard your argument, since main premises of it are flatly contradicted by the fact…
/r/MensRights11/07/13 05:07 AM
3

The only male rape rates that are extremely high are those that use the same flawed methodology that feminists use to exaggerate rape rates, and those that do things like count all drunk unwanted sex, or all sex without explicit verbal consent as rape. That's what feminist manginas do. Great shaming attempt. Moving on with the argument, I am more worried about false rape accusations because I don't consider drunk regretted sex or sex without explicit verbal consent to be rape, for either sex.
/r/MensRights11/07/13 04:56 AM
2

Historically did women working lead to lower birthrates? Because I think the effects could be opposite or both could be caused by increased prosperity and ease of work. Income level often denotes education does it not? But education is not necessary for those jobs you say are needed in order to have an economy transition. I would argue that education forms culture more than anything else. This is irrelevant, as we aren't talking about culture. My argument is that women working aren't spreading t…
/r/MensRights11/07/13 03:56 AM
2

[citation needed] Also, textiles were not manufactured in anywhere other than England, so even if those countries were developed you need to explain what "light industry" made the change possible in the absence of textiles. Unemployment shouldn't be used to describe what type of economy you are observing. It is difficult to argue that women being able to work was essential for the economy if there was a surplus of workers during the development.
/r/MensRights11/07/13 03:42 AM
1

I don't think male rape is more of a problem than false rape allegations. Most "rape" of men is only rape using ridiculous feminist standards for what counts as rape. Meanwhile, the definition of rape is being broadened by feminists so much that basically any sex is rape if the woman decides it was at any point in the next 10 years, making false rape accusations impossible because an accusation is all that is needed for something to actually be rape.
/r/MensRights11/07/13 03:37 AM
1

[crickets]
/r/MensRights11/07/13 03:28 AM
2

Also, the "second industrial revolution" doesn't appear to me to have had any such light industries. There were also unemployment problems because of the rapid progress of machinery, which seems to cast doubt on the statement that women's work in factories is essential for industrialization.
/r/MensRights10/07/13 05:13 AM
2

No, women have to be working in order to change their lifestyle they won't change it on their own. Why is it women's lifestyle that needs to change? The lifestyles of men, women and children are linked, and the way in which the people live is largely determined by income level. Who do you think was working in light textiles in England, France, and the United States There were men working in the factories, as well as a majority of children for quite a while. Is having children working in factorie…
/r/MensRights10/07/13 05:07 AM
2

Does it? Or is it merely that in the same types of situation where girls are educated (typically wealthy societies) women tend to also have fewer children? Also, why do you think the best way for other countries to develop when the only models of development we have have educated men first?
/r/MensRights10/07/13 04:07 AM
3

Also in Canada Affirmative action is only legal when it favors women or some other protected group, so you can't hire men preferentially.
/r/MensRights10/07/13 04:05 AM
5

But that's the thing, when I hear that kind of shit said under the guise of "feminism," I recognize the fact that it's not feminism at all. It's sexism, pure and simple. But the people and organizations that call themselves feminist are so commonly involved in certain types of sexism that it is practically an requirement to be a feminist. Both schools of thought are predicated on equality That isn't true. Almost all feminist believe that men oppressed women for thousands of years and ignore the …
/r/MensRights10/07/13 04:04 AM
1

Are you suggesting that men who don't do anything heroic should be praised just because they're a member of a group that is more likely to be heroic? Since men as a group are constantly blamed for the fact that they are more likely to be bad I do think it is important to focus on the good things that men also disproportionately do in order to not have being male be a bad thing. Perhaps praise is too much, but praising the group of men just like we blame the group of men would be a very good thin…
/r/MensRights09/07/13 11:25 PM
1

But using what happend to my fallen brothers to do so is wrong. Is it wrong for feminists to use the suffering of rape victims or DV victims? If so what are you doing about it? If not, why the difference? This just reads like an attempt to prevent men from using the tactics that have been so successful when used by feminism, to no complaint from anyone.
/r/MensRights09/07/13 05:46 AM
1

Yet you wouldn't do the same thing for men when facing the equivalent problems. You are perfectly happy to remove all credit from men when they do something positive or suffer, yet you get all the benefits from the constant attention on everything positive that women do and the constant focus on the shortcomings of men and masculinity. If you want to be more than an entitled princess the fact that you benefit from the attitude you are thanking him for should make you fight against the opposite a…
/r/MensRights09/07/13 05:43 AM
6

They are misused by many people. It is amazing the number of men who feel the need to defend women's feelings.
/r/MensRights09/07/13 04:18 AM
1

The reason that women are more valuable is that they are the limiting factor in reproduction. Sperm is cheap, and one man could impregnate an entire community if all the other men died. Meanwhile, women largely have an easy time getting a man to have sex with them, biologically because sperm is a lower energy cost than having a child inside you. This creates an imbalance of power that causes men to have to earn or compete for sex from women.
/r/MensRights09/07/13 03:03 AM
2

An olive branch must always be available for any who wish to listen And it always is. Just actually be willing to have your beliefs based upon the evidence and don't support bigots and you will be welcome in the MRM.
/r/MensRights09/07/13 02:21 AM
2

A lot of things that feminist say I realized were bullshit independently when I was in grade school. I consider that pretty obvious. But mostly what I downvote for is people who aren't being intellectually honest, and are giving arguments that aren't really why they believe what they do, or not actually trying to engage, learn more, and understand the facts that MR uses.
/r/MensRights09/07/13 02:20 AM
7

Accusations of misogyny are overused and being misogynistic is the last thing the MRM needs to worry about.
/r/MensRights08/07/13 11:38 PM
2

GWW has a blog called owning your shit where she posts transcripts of many of her videos.
/r/MensRights08/07/13 11:36 PM
3

I wouldn't say it is purely subjective. Someone who comes here and tells us obviously false things about the wage gap without even having read the sidebar deserves to be downvoted in my opinion.
/r/MensRights08/07/13 11:30 PM
2

There are those who call themselves 'feminists' but are in reality sexists. Yes, and they include almost every feminist who ever opens their mouth.
/r/MensRights08/07/13 05:29 AM
0

I don't really think feminists have ever made a set of criteria of what makes a good feminist film, and reserve the right to at any time use any set of events depicted in film as evidence of how oppressed women are. Given this we shouldn't take them seriously at all on this issue.
/r/MensRights08/07/13 05:20 AM
1

The situation in Islamic countries is bad This is what you are trying to prove. You admitted earlier that you didn't have much solid evidence, and choose to believe that it is bad because of what you know about the Koran. When confronted about the Koran now you say that you think it is worse that equivalent statements made in western countries because you know the situation is so bad in Islamic countries. This is textbook circular reasoning, so really you have no justification for your belief th…
/r/MensRights08/07/13 05:16 AM
1

Women aren't allowed to do anything, let alone work. This isn't true. You can't seriously be telling me that a society comprised entirely of one sex isn't going to be unbalanced. Societies need the influence of both genders in order to properly progress, that should be obvious. Funny then that western societies made so much progress before feminism. In fact the vast majority of the changes that made current western civilization possible happened before women got the vote and were working. There …
/r/MensRights08/07/13 05:08 AM
1

wtAbsoluteFUCK is your problem with comprehension? I never said men do not face repercussions And men face far harsher repercussions And you are criticizing my comprehension? Anyway, I eagerly await the inevitable movie that will undoubtedly come out based upon your fearless defense of gender principles by not doing what you were told and facing no consequences.
/r/MensRights08/07/13 05:03 AM
-5

I don't agree that this test shows bias in favor of men. Men are generally the heroes both in real life and in media, and are also the majority of the villain or nameless grunt roles. I think movies fail the bechdel test not because of bias but because women can't be in the subservient role, or the villain role, or the nameless grunt role as easily. I don't know if this is an advantage.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 06:02 PM
2

We're talking about grown men writing such comments in to newspapers and magazines, or tweeting rape threats. And it is perfectly acceptable for people employed on television to joke about dismembering male genitalia. Women don't have it worse here at all.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 05:51 PM
1

I can't find it, and am no longer sure if it is true. Perhaps the place I heard if from was misleading.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 05:44 PM
3

Who the heck upvotes this shit??? People coming from r/bestof
/r/MensRights03/07/13 05:37 PM
3

There may be some who have just not encountered the arguments against feminism.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 05:36 PM
1

Actually in more feminized countries the wage gap tend to be greater. When women have more choices they choose other things over work.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 05:34 PM
1

As a whole TV is dominated by male sports Yea, because men are more interested in sports. gender stereotypes (of both kinds) Are you joking? The women on TV tend to be very competent, and the dads bumbling idiots. Violence against women is see as a huge deal, and every time there is a female victim of something it is exaggerated, but people openly laugh about men getting their dicks cut off. It is just generally acknowledged on television that women are better than men. and male presenters. Do w…
/r/MensRights03/07/13 05:28 PM
4

Read the paper I cited. In medical field with far higher standardization, likely far less bias, and far more rigor in many cases the majority of published research findings are false. I see no reason to think that this wouldn't be even higher in women's studies, especially for a study with such a small sample size. This study also happens to be the only study I ever see feminists cite as direct evidence of bias, which makes me think there are very few such studies. I wouldn't accept a single stu…
/r/MensRights03/07/13 05:21 PM
2

But turn on the TV and male dominated sexism, puerile objectifying and petty chest beating oozes out of it. TV is actually incredibly sexist against men. I don't know under what rock you are living. Women like to look pretty women just as much as men do, and objectification is just shaming men for their sexuality. It is not a serious complaint. petty chest beating oozes out of it. I don't know what you are objecting to, unless you somehow thing that competition among men is a bad thing.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 05:08 PM
3

This is just a really, really bad counterargument. I am making an argument that bias in a field means that you cannot really take the statistics that come from that field all that seriously. This is common statistical stuff. Even in the medical field huge numbers of the published studies are thought to be incorrect source. All of the problems outlined in the above paper are likely to be even greater in the field we are discussing. The studies that have shown this (for example the scientists stud…
/r/MensRights03/07/13 05:03 PM
1

I don't think that should be the test. I think the test should be if you intend to make someone afraid for their safety.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 04:53 PM
2

and I think intentionally pushing someone into the second category should be punishable by law. The difficulty is that most often people just use the fact that they were afraid to say that the other person is guilty of something, especially as feminism becomes more and more prevalent. Using threats is illegal, and has always been so.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 04:45 PM
2

No, it cannot be eliminated, but the data that would be necessary to do so on a wide level simply doesn't exist. There is no reason to prefer the argument of discrimination to the argument that men earn more because they do more dangerous jobs, and despite this people act like the gap has been proved to be due to discrimination.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 04:40 PM
5

No, data on differences in median pay are abundant. None of this has ever been demonstrated to be due to discrimination.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 04:36 PM
24

Just because something is not due to biology doesn't mean it is a problem. The data show that women receive many benefits that compensate them for their lower pay, so it difficult to argue that they are at a disadvantage from it. If you are going to focus on social factors behind the wage gap probably the best thing to do would be to end things like the alimony gap, and the fact that men don't get custody of their children. Many men are legally obligated to earn money, and this is much more seri…
/r/MensRights03/07/13 04:34 PM
2

A better argument against the statement that discrimination causes women to be a minority at the top of fields is that men typically make more of the sacrifices in every area that one would expect to be required in order to be the absolute top of a field (working more hours, being more willing to relocate, taking jobs with more risk, choosing jobs based upon advancement opportunities and pay rather than satisfaction) in the face of empirical studies proving gender bias exists in promotion in the…
/r/MensRights03/07/13 04:31 PM
1

Those disparities can be almost entirely accounted for by personal choices, and there are good reasons to think the remaining 5% could be accounted for by personal choices if we had better data.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 04:24 PM
-1

And women have too for 100 years. By your logic the feminist movement shouldn't have existed for a century.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 04:20 PM
6

This post ignores that feminism actively fights against men trying to get equality in areas, and for years claimed to be the only gender movement necessary. And the effect of advocating for at least 50% women in every field is to promote gender superiority.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 04:19 PM
4

Workplace discrimination has never been proved to have any effect on women's pay, and in fact could be working in the other direction.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 04:17 PM
4

Feminists don't need to advocate man hate any more because it has become the prevailing social attitude.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 04:16 PM
3

With how easy it is for women to abuse other laws regarding sexual behavior I am definitely not in favor of making more such laws. And really, the worst that happens in the above situation is that someone becomes uncomfortable. Do we really need to law to coddle peoples feelings like that?
/r/MensRights03/07/13 04:11 PM
18

http://www.prb.org/Articles/2011/gender-gap-in-education.aspx On the feminization of education. Additional data on this is easy to find. And perhaps there are more men in STEM fields because of discrimination against them in every other program. I am going based upon personal experience, since I found in every field other than STEM I needed to learn anti-male feminist propaganda. There is little to no evidence that women don't have access to these jobs. Well I can't really have a source for the …
/r/MensRights03/07/13 04:07 PM
8

Funny how no feminists are doing anything about all those areas where women are ahead though. They also do everything they can to fight against anyone trying to fix those. It is extremely obvious they aren't an equality movement to anyone paying attention.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 03:49 PM
4

Street harassment should not be illegal. Doing so, especially in the current climate, would enable women to arrest any man whose behavior in public they don't like. I have been catcalled on the street many times, and I think women need to do what I did and man the fuck up.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 03:44 PM
4

positions of power like CEO/congress/etc. This is frankly something I haven't thought about that much. I believe part of the problem is that to be a CEO/congressperson you generally have to be pretty old with tons of experience (generally), and people of that generation were more stuck into gender roles. I think the numbers will continue to improve as they have for the last several decades. I think the same reasons that explain the pay gap could explain why men are in positions of power more. Th…
/r/MensRights03/07/13 03:42 PM
1

I agree with a lot of what OP said, but I feel like men frequently don't see the small ways in which women are discouraged from being the intellectual and societal equals of men. The fact is that men are the vast majority of mathematicians. Since women say that any area women outdo men is because women are superior it is ridiculous not to expect men to do the same. Stop women from saying "is this the end of men" every time a statistic like the fact that 60% of women are in college, or from sayin…
/r/MensRights03/07/13 03:39 PM
4

Women have never been demonstrated to earn less for the same work. The minor difference that remains after controlling for the major choices that effect work still needs to account for many choices men make more than women that result in higher pay. In fact it could well be that men earn less if all the same choices are made.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 03:36 PM
1

How do we have so many people here who have not done any elementary research into the movement? There are still vast pay differences between men and women in most Western countries Yea, because women choose to do different work. there are still condescending attitudes regularly thrown towards women So as long as we don't treat all women like goddesses there is a problem? and there are still vastly more female victims of domestic violence and rape. Not really true. But even if it was I love how t…
/r/MensRights03/07/13 03:35 PM
14

This is typical feminist bullcrap. Of course we need at least 50% women in every field. But having women as 60% of those in college is fine, or having them as the vast majority of those given custody, or having men be the majority of those in prison. If you advocate for women to be at least 50% in every area you are actually advocating for gender superiority.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 03:31 PM
29

We know for a fact that, while women have access to higher education, they do not have the same type of access as men No, they have far better access, since even though they are the majority by a large margin they still have additional scholarships. And perhaps there are more men in STEM fields because of discrimination against them in every other program. We also know that while women have been given "entry" to the workforce, they do not have the same access to C-level jobs. There is little to …
/r/MensRights03/07/13 03:29 PM
4

I don't think it is about having a cause, but about feeling like a victim.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 03:25 PM
-1

So hooks is arguing that if you can provide a compelling, logical argument as to why such an non-measurable thing is likely But they can't even do that.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 03:24 PM
1

It is so easy to say that everyone should be treated equally when the common view is that your sex is superior and the fact that this view exists isn't even acknowledged. I see no reason to think people (feminists and women) are going to stop looking down on men now, so the only alternative is to focus on the good things men do as well. Let's all stop being big babies and find the middle where we realize everyone is a person and should be treated with the same respect as the person to your left …
/r/MensRights03/07/13 03:21 PM
1

Except men aren't being legally forced into marriages by their parents, and they aren't viewed as property to be passed from parent to spouse. So the situation is Islamic countries is bad because the Koran is bad, and the Koran is bad because the situation in Islamic countries is bad? I think I detect circular reasoning. Never mind that forced marriage is forbidden by the Koran. Could it be that BOTH views are wrong? Well if both views are equally wrong than what muslims believe is no worse than…
/r/MensRights03/07/13 03:16 PM
1

Or maybe they have other things to worry about than humanistic laws, like safety and stability, and getting the requisite food. There is absolutely zero reason to think that Afghanistan is the way it is because women aren't allowed to work. And yet they appear to be screwing it up so badly that they can't enact sensible humanistic laws even when given ample opportunity. This is such western bullshit. Of course all they need to do is enact humanistic laws! Never mind problems of stability, war, p…
/r/MensRights03/07/13 03:01 PM
1

So we should care about the fact that women are having a harder time getting a licence when men aren't allowed to drive at all according to your analogy? Your gynocentrism is showing.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 07:06 AM
2

No, they don't, at least not openly. But they don't really need too. Try to get them to do anything at all to stop feminism though, and you will see their true colors. They will insist to the end that they are in favor of true equality, and yet not change their behavior one iota, and do everything they can to avoid the issue. They will also be perfectly happy to use any of the ways feminism has given them to screw over men, and will use some BS feminist rationalization to do so. It wasn't just t…
/r/MensRights03/07/13 06:43 AM
2

ha. My problem is more how to stop disliking the ones I know. Being fucked over by some people you consider friends will do that too you. The worst part is that their behavior seems so typical, and most women support the right of women to do similar things, even if they swear they wouldn't do it too you.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 06:18 AM
1

So right off the bat the "oppression" of women is admittedly different from the oppression of any other oppressed class, as those other classes were seen as totally inferior, and had next to no benefits to their positions. So using oppression is misleading, and you should probably use a different word. Now if we are going to move forward we need to start comparing different benefits and drawbacks when there is no clear way to weigh these things and this part of the argument may be a bit subjecti…
/r/MensRights03/07/13 05:52 AM
1

There are feminists and non-feminists who would agree that there is nothing wrong with masculinity. There is a difference between their being nothing wrong with something and saying something good about it. If femininity and women are constantly praised (as they are often by feminists), masculinity is derided (whatever the frequency) and it is not allowed to say anything positive about masculinity or men the total impression one gets is that masculinity is inferior, even if people don't want to …
/r/MensRights03/07/13 05:32 AM
1

One of the many reasons places like Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan are so unthinkably bad is because they're not utilizing the minds and potential of half of the population. This is incredibly dumb. Western society developed it's technology while under a patriarchal system, and there is no evidence that the rate of technological growth has accelerated because of women being involved. In fact, if you want to see what happens when you have feminism and the rampant disrespect of men and single mother…
/r/MensRights03/07/13 05:21 AM
2

Gandhi resisted those he was fighting against, just did it in a non-violent way. And if I do fight this feminists will use it as additional evidence of how hard women have it, and will have additional support that they will use to fight other things. In fact, the best bet would be for feminism to expend as much energy and money fighting this as possible so they don't have as much to spend fighting for female superiority.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 05:11 AM
1

It is literally considered sexist against women to relate masculinity to anything good, and every single time men do something bad we get articles about the end of men, or how men can't keep up and so on. Saying anything negative about women is of course considered misogyny. In fact if you don't believe that men oppressed women throughout history you are a radical.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 04:55 AM
1

Labeling certain jobs a certain way does not force anyone to do them, especially if it is an accurate description.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 04:53 AM
8

The fact that he had to pay alimony that is way over his current income isn't relevant at all I guess.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 04:49 AM
0

Women can help themselves. Maybe some of the feminist funding that otherwise goes into promoting female superiority will be used for something worthwhile.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 04:49 AM
1

Well the society is correct in deeming many of those a "men's jobs" since men are better at them.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 04:46 AM
0

What on earth are you talking about? Yes, of course consent given only matters while the sex is happening. But, since we often can't prove that consent did or didn't happen we need to look at other evidence, which is where past behavior as evidence of future behavior comes in.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 04:46 AM
0

Yes, of course the fact that you consented before doesn't mean that you consented again, it merely means that you were more likely to have consented. This is obvious. But like I said, if the trial gets to the point where that evidence is needed it should be thrown out of court. But because of biases, such as the belief that women don't lie about rape we need such things to be allowed.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 04:22 AM
2

Men are accused unfairly extremely rarely. Again, not proved false =/= true, which your claim rests upon. I could just as well say that 5% of rapes reported to the police end in conviction so the false accusation rate is 95%.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 04:17 AM
1

2-8% are proved to be lying about rape. Meanwhile, about 5% are proved to be telling the truth beyond a reasonable doubt. The rest we don't know.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 04:12 AM
-1

He shouldn't be convicted at all.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 04:11 AM
5

In the late 1980s in college the college started a written "sexual consent form" to be signed by both parties BEFORE any alcohol was consumed. Those wouldn't even help. She could just say she changed her mind after having a few drinks.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 04:08 AM
-1

It is still relevant. If you slept around before it is more likely you will sleep around again. Although really if the evidence is such that that would influence the verdict the case shouldn't even go to court. But the "perfect women" defense is too good, so the evidence of past behavior is needed.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 04:06 AM
3

No, it can't be about specifics, because it is discussing the relationship with a specific incident (that is part of a general trend) to a general trend (men on average earn more). It would be entirely useless if it didn't make generalizations.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 03:57 AM
3

Except that we only criticize them for that given that the claim we aren't needed, and have for 50+ years while making things worse for men. Also, you are a sucker if you act morally to those who don't do so to you.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 03:56 AM
2

Neither gender should be forced to be parents, fathers currently are. This is not equality.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 03:54 AM
4

Because many many MRA's have already tried that.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 03:53 AM
6

Good. I think most people here would agree with your above post then.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 03:52 AM
6

They typically are, despite all the huge efforts of people to "fix" that through affirmative action. If they hired the best people for the job the vast majority of firefighters would be male.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 03:49 AM
4

That is not the important question, what is important is what they make relative to other work of equal skill level and with other factors equal.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 03:48 AM
12

So women should get paid a "gender bonus" to make up for the fact that they are physically weaker?
/r/MensRights03/07/13 03:48 AM
2

And yet I purposefully didn't specify the gender of the perpetrator or victim. Hmm. Except that it was abundantly clear from the context I was talking about a man. I'm surprised that you would feel so comfortable dictating to someone else what their personal experience has been. When you make the same statements about your personal life that feminists make about women collectively with evidence that can be entirely debunked I don't feel at all uncomfortable saying it is almost certainly not true…
/r/MensRights03/07/13 03:45 AM
3

Again, I believe you are thinking of someone else. I haven't proposed anything. You are saying "action movie heroes being valued is the problem", which implies we need to somehow stop them from being valued. The problem is really that other men are not valued, and there is a huge difference between the two. You are a typical example of this when you insist that you worked harder than men to achieve the same thing, and your life was so hard. This isn't true at all, and the effect of it is that me…
/r/MensRights03/07/13 01:26 AM
3

Firefighters are frequently praised and very respected, I would argue...but why should they get preferential treatment in their everyday lives? They shouldn't, they just shouldn't get the inferior treatment that men receive daily. Um....so being a firefighter should give them a pass if they beat their husband or wife? Your sexism is evident in that you assume the accusation is true. No, being of outstanding moral character should mean that you have some credibility against accusations, unlike wh…
/r/MensRights03/07/13 01:16 AM
-1

Or just strong, tough, independent, unemotional, so on and so forth. Except that these qualities cannot be attributed to men these days without a scream of "women can be strong/tough/independent/unemotional too!" These qualities are also becoming less valuable, despite being objectively valuable. The only time I hear men's toughness being discussed is when people blame it for their greater suicide rate. These two things are one and the same. So your plan is to stop praising men for anything, and…
/r/MensRights03/07/13 01:06 AM
1

He isn't using them to further his outrage, he is using them to try to draw attention to the often ignored positive aspects of masculinity.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 12:48 AM
1

Because if we only stress gender when a man does something bad that will inevitable lead to people seeing men as inferior, as we see today.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 12:46 AM
1

Because you are not allowed to attribute the fact that the sacrificed themselves to their gender, while the negative things that men do are attributed to their gender all the time. This leads to a worsening of the current anti-male climate.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 12:45 AM
1

What on earth are you talking about? How is wanting men to get credit for the positive things they do, just like they get blamed for all the negative things they do a bad thing?
/r/MensRights03/07/13 12:44 AM
1

There is nothing a unequal as equal treatment of things that are different.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 12:43 AM
2

Just another example of how no-one gives a shit about men except as tools to keep women happy.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 12:41 AM
1

It couldn't possible be that men's superior strength is at all an advantage could it.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 12:41 AM
1

I read "19 women involved in event Y" and I'm annoyed with the media for finding it necessary to specify that they were women as opposed to just humans But do you get annoyed when the gender of people who do violent things is mentioned? Because if gender is a focus when a gender does bad things, it should be a focus when a gender does good things. I don't think their gender has any bearing on how tragic it is. But everyone else does, and feminism doesn't even acknowledge this (in fact feminism s…
/r/MensRights03/07/13 12:41 AM
3

Not masculinity itself, but the way our culture worships alpha masculinity and rejects any man who doesn't fit that mold So only the only remaining areas that men are seen positively are to blame. Oh okay, that is totally different than blaming men. is commonly understood to have a toxic effect on certain young men. Yea, by feminist idiots, with no evidence for such a belief. I would think you all would understand that impact - just as any woman understands the pressure to be thin and beautiful …
/r/MensRights03/07/13 12:33 AM
2

Firefighters are sometimes praised and respected, but that doesn't extend to any sort of decent treatment or pride in situations other than those where they are explicitly acting as firefighters. I highly doubt those firefighters actions where they risked their lives would help them at all if they were accused of domestic violence, for example. Also, the fact that men tend to do heroic things more than women even when it isn't their job doesn't get men in general even a modicum of respect.
/r/MensRights03/07/13 12:25 AM
0

If they don't fit the alpha male role So yes, if they aren't heroes and warriors fighting an obviously evil enemy they are rejected. Which is basically all men in today's society. Yet you blame the image of masculinity instead of societies fucked up attitude towards men. Also note that almost no-one actually mentions societies fucked up attitudes towards men in these shootings, it is always blamed on men and masculinity. The default "hero" in our culture is a straight white male. Well yea, the d…
/r/MensRights03/07/13 12:21 AM
1

The problem is not that the men died in fires. Someone has to do it, and men typically are more inclined to do such things. The problem is that that aspect of masculinity is denied by feminists, while all the problems are exaggerated. So the men who were doing a dangerous job and risking their lives probably didn't get adequate respect for it while they were alive.
/r/MensRights02/07/13 11:41 PM
1

I think that there are a multitude of factors necessary to determine how demographics of men will be viewed. This is a typical attempt to dodge an obvious fact by saying "it's complicated". You also totally miss the point. We are not discussing whether more men or more women are valued, we are discussing how much the genders are valued as concepts. And it isn't allowed to attribute anything positive to men (that is sexist against women nowadays) yet we constantly have bad things attributed to me…
/r/MensRights02/07/13 11:39 PM
1

and suggesting that masculinity is to thank for their heroism is suggesting that a woman behaving in a brave or courageous manner is defying her gender in order to do so, which is extremely tricky territory. Yet you are perfectly fine with saying that masculinity is to blame for the problems of school shootings, and don't appear to consider this tricky territory at all. You are being downvoted because of your blatant and obvious concern for saying anything that could possible be implied to say t…
/r/MensRights02/07/13 11:34 PM
-3

Attributing the violence of men to their maleness is totally an attack on men, especially when the discussion almost always goes in the direction of "how men can't adapt to the modern society", instead of how society treats men. If you constantly do the above and don't attribute any of the positive things men do to their being male being male is seen as a problem. Look at basically any action movie poster and you see how society views alpha masculinity: as the ideal, as the superior way to be, a…
/r/MensRights02/07/13 11:31 PM
1

Lol. I love the retreat too denial of facts and saying that everything is interpretation when I challenge your view of yourself as a fearless gender warrior. And men face far harsher repercussions for cross dressing, especially in professional settings. If you deny this you are delusional. I took it. So basically you were allowed to wear what you wanted then, it is just that the assumption is that the women would wear skirts? So you actually just made a choice that most other women didn't make a…
/r/MensRights02/07/13 11:23 PM
1

Well many people believed back then that men were mentally superior to women, and it seems unfair to judge him more harshly for that claim that we judge the numerous people who say women are superior to men these days. As for saying that most of the people in hell are women, to me that seems far preferable to the standard view that infantilizes women and portrays everything they do as angelic. This has been the common view for the vast majority of people throughout much of history. It would also…
/r/MensRights02/07/13 11:19 PM
1

If you say "feminism is ..." you are either talking about the movement or you are not using English properly. Feminism is not about equality at all, whatever delusional and ignorant supporters on the ground may tell themselves.
/r/MensRights02/07/13 03:47 PM
1

What sections of the Quran are anti-woman? I have also read a lot of the Quran and have not found that. Whatever your opinion of me is, I am not particularly criticizing you personally, just saying how some "common sense" things we know about gender are false, and saying that this is very likely one of them. I'd still like to see evidence and sources for the claims you make before I believe them. Well, the story about men being raped and the women killed, and the difference between the narrative…
/r/MensRights01/07/13 03:57 PM
2

Also, watch the video.
/r/MensRights01/07/13 03:26 PM
1

I never said they have more rights, just that they have benefits and men have disadvantages that are never discussed in the western media, much like the western media paints a portrayal of women as oppressed victims here. The media typically reports single incidents as if they are indicative of what is common place in Islam, and and statistics they use are feminist statistics (basically lies like the wage gap myth). Sometimes if you read an article you can even find the evidence that the article…
/r/MensRights01/07/13 02:50 PM
1

Still, I like to start with the default that if someone's complaining, their complaint is valid. I remain open to any signs it's not, but I figure if I want to be taken as trustworthy I should extend the same consideration. After finding as many feminist claims as I have to be invalid perhaps you wouldn't believe their complaints any more. But that doesn't invalidate their facts, especially when those facts are sourced. It's also a humor website. If you want to have a serious discussion don't si…
/r/MensRights01/07/13 07:37 AM
1

On the contrary. The paragraph you quoted states that the law does not prohibit simply teasing, or "incidents that are not very serious" but since neither of these terms are defined companies are forced to not allow many things that could fall under those categories because they can't face the threat of legal action. That is not an issue to do with the law but an issue to do with how it is being implemented and abused - the wording is gender neutral so I am not sure how this can be altered to gi…
/r/MensRights01/07/13 07:32 AM
1

So according to you people reacting to avoid being prosecuted under a law that is vague is not an issue with the law?
/r/MensRights01/07/13 07:17 AM
1

If it is not possible for corporations to reasonable ensure they won't be prosecuted (for example if the law is vague or open to interpretation) they are forced to cover their asses in order to help the bottom line. That is totally a legal issue. Most of the things you have said that sexual harassment are in fact covered under other laws and so the sexual harassment legislation is not needed. I find it difficult to believe that the sexual harassment legislation does very much good at all, unless…
/r/MensRights01/07/13 07:16 AM
0

And we should praise the movement for that? You don't get a cookie for not praising violent acts, you get criticized for supporting them, and shocking numbers of feminists have supported violence against men while receiving little to no criticism from the movement.
/r/MensRights01/07/13 07:12 AM
1

It's a statement of fact. Not all statements of fact need to be justified every time they are stated. However if you require evidence of the fact that the media has a feminist bias and haven't encountered enough by reading this subreddit I could provide some.
/r/MensRights01/07/13 07:10 AM
2

In Canada it is legal and in fact encouraged to discriminate against men in fields where they are the majority, and it is illegal to do the opposite in fields that are female dominated. Again, these strike me as social issues not legal ones. If the decisions that judges make are not legal issues I don't know what would qualify as a legal issue.
/r/MensRights30/06/13 06:59 PM
1

You all seem to have this incredibly distorted view that men do not get sexually harassed. No, I have this view that women don't get punished for sexually harassing men. In fact the laws regarding sexual harassment are a huge tool for them to use to sexually harass men. If it was welcome it would not be reported. Are you being intentionally dense. There is a huge problem if the first someone hears that other people don't like their behavior is in a setting where their job or career. And that kin…
/r/MensRights30/06/13 06:54 PM
1

Ever thought maybe the employer her/himself didn't like the fact his employees were making sexual jokes? Look up donglegate for the full story. A man was fired for an extremely innocent joke not even intended for the woman because she complained. This is not from my personal experience, it is a high profile story, and shows the effects of sexual harassment law on the workplace.
/r/MensRights30/06/13 06:36 PM
1

Plus, one incident or even a few is not enough to warrant termination of your job. Yea, because companies have no desire to avoid lawsuits or discrimination cases.
/r/MensRights30/06/13 06:34 PM
-3

Calling someone who commits violence a feminist hero because they allege that someone deserved it is praising violence in my book. There are plenty of other examples of feminist praising those who commit violence against men. In fact, Valerie Solanas was praised as a true feminist hero by prominent feminists when all she was know for was shooting andy warhol.
/r/MensRights30/06/13 06:31 PM
2

Yes, because we only one side of the story, thanks to the feminist bias of our news outlets.
/r/MensRights30/06/13 06:26 PM
1

Read the sidebar. Then provide evidence of anything that feminists have done to remove the advantages women have. There are a multitude of examples of them fighting for increased advantages for women.
/r/MensRights30/06/13 12:13 AM
0

What bullshit. Praising violence is praising violence even if you make up reasons for it being justified.
/r/MensRights30/06/13 12:12 AM
1

95% of claims of rape result in no convictions. And of course a crime that sometimes leaves no physical evidence is going to have a low conviction rate.
/r/MensRights30/06/13 12:08 AM
3

We hate them because they have fucked up many times before. We are merely expressing what their next tactic will be too take the wind out of their sails.
/r/MensRights30/06/13 12:06 AM
1

Because they don't want to acknowledge that men are better at anything/do more of anything/ sacrifice more than they do. That is the reason for many of the feminist initiatives such as getting more women into science and the military. Those women who really wanted to get into the sciences have been able too for ages.
/r/MensRights30/06/13 12:02 AM
1

Nature has plenty of examples of female animals doing physical work and taking care of themselves. Humans, likely because of their larger brain and head sizes are born younger and mature slower than the young of other species. This makes it much more difficult for women to provide for themselves. Most scientific/mathematical discoveries came from upper class men. I am not sure if this is true. Many geniuses came from the lower classes and earned their education by their abilities.
/r/MensRights29/06/13 11:56 PM
2

Yea, but no-one cares if men are oppressed. They probably deserve it anyway, and it is probably their fault.
/r/MensRights29/06/13 11:48 PM
2

The feminist propaganda machine is very effective.
/r/MensRights29/06/13 11:47 PM
1

Where does the law state that? I know of cases where people have been fired for making sexual jokes.
/r/MensRights29/06/13 11:32 PM
1

If you read the above, the law does not include teasing. Sexual Harassment: Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature that tends to create a hostile or offensive work environment. This can include teasing if it can be argued to involve sex. Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature that tends to create a hostile or offensive work environment. No, just not have…
/r/MensRights29/06/13 11:28 PM
1

Sure, technically men can get sexually harassed, but the way the law is usually applied it isn't taken seriously. You take away their voice too. Oh no, all those poor people who have to deal with off color jokes, how ever will they survive? Who will save them from this awful fate?
/r/MensRights29/06/13 11:20 PM
1

I don't think you really understand sexual harassment law and the way it is typically implemented. The effect of the laws is basically to give women a hammer to punish anyone who doesn't behave exactly as they want in the workplace.
/r/MensRights29/06/13 05:16 PM
1

I don't understand how you can be against laws that disallow sexual harassment towards women. When sexual harassment basically means doing or saying anything tangentially related to sex that makes a woman uncomfortable it is very easy to be against them. Why should women's feelings dictate what is allowed in the workplace? Feelings are often entirely the problem of the person who has them.
/r/MensRights29/06/13 05:15 PM
1

If they want to talk about with you, it's not sexual harassment. What if someone walks by? And you are wrong because at least in some areas there is the idea that if the behavior "ought reasonably be known to be unwelcome" you can still be guilty. Never mind the problems that come in with imbalance of power between the genders and the bias towards women's every whim, basically allowing them to dictate what people talk about in the workplace.
/r/MensRights29/06/13 05:12 PM
1

SH actually has several criteria that needs to be met, and one of those is your inability to change your behavior Actually, where I live the criteria is behavior that is known or ought reasonably be known to be unwelcome. So you don't actually know, and have to trust predominantly female HR people to decide whether you should have been able to read the woman's mind or not.
/r/MensRights29/06/13 05:08 PM
1

So you're just going to assert that everything on the site is complete bullshit? I don't really think any of it is meant to be taken seriously. It is, after all a humor website. I have absolutely no idea what that sentence is trying to say. Yea, I mis-typed a word. Basically I am saying that because of capitalism and market forces we have very good reasons to think that the clothes available to women are determined by what women want to wear.
/r/MensRights29/06/13 04:38 PM
3

My main issue is the absolute degrading of masculinity and men that occurs daily everywhere, and the ideas about men and women that almost everyone holds. If those ideas change I think the rest will change very quickly.
/r/MensRights28/06/13 11:35 PM
4

Yea, if a child has a right to the financial support of both parents we should outlaw single mothers by choice.
/r/MensRights28/06/13 11:33 PM
2

The fact that a choice conflicts with some of your beliefs or has consequences doesn't mean you don't have a choice. I could make the exact same argument regarding LPS, saying it is the same as abortion because some men will morally disagree with it and it is a hard decision to make. Are you suggesting that if she gets pregnant and 'chooses to bring a child into this world' I should hold no financial responsibility for the child's care? You shouldn't legally be forced to pay for the child. Wheth…
/r/MensRights28/06/13 11:31 PM
1

If you used cracked as evidence of anything I am surprised you have any standards with who you argue with at all. The argument that women's clothing is catered to what women buy, and hence what women want to wear should dispel any evidence that women's clothing is difference than the clothes women want to wear, even in the fact of actual evidence.
/r/MensRights28/06/13 11:16 PM
0

If someone judged my mind based on my tits, I can understand how frustrating that would feel. I sympathize. I don't think this actually happens that often. More like people just don't judge women's minds very much at all. I think most of the complaining is just that everyone doesn't validate certain women's own image of themselves as smart, hardworking, extremely ethical people. Is any of it wrong? Cracked is full of white knights. I wouldn't believe anything I read on gender issues there. I am …
/r/MensRights28/06/13 01:52 AM
1

Except that when fathers are given the option to take paternity leave they generally don't take it. Men are more likely to support their children by working so that they can have a good lifestyle than by staying home. There are reasons to think this is biological, not socialization.
/r/MensRights26/06/13 11:47 PM
3

-Lack of decent female characters anywhere ever. Can you expand? Books and movies seem to portray women pretty accurately in my opinion, and most people complaining about the way women are portrayed want movies and books to portray a fairy world where women do things that they never or almost never do in real life.
/r/MensRights26/06/13 09:28 PM
0

women returning to work after children are a little more disadvantaged in the workplace. And they should be. If you put other things above work your work life will suffer. more encouragement for women to join STEM fields, i think this could be done without the stupid quota ideas. Why on earth should we do this? The only reasons I have seen are based upon the idea that the sexes are the same so any differences must be due to discrimination. The sexes are different, and I see no reason to think wo…
/r/MensRights26/06/13 09:26 PM
2

God forbid we actually criticize a movement for things it is actually doing. Do you think we should be nice and respectful when we argue with members of the KKK as well?
/r/MensRights26/06/13 09:21 PM
0

A couple of points. We don't know whether men actually kill their wives more than women kill their husbands, because women tend to kill their husbands by getting other people involved, or use methods that are less likely to be detected. In neither of these cases are the female spouse killers counted in the statistics. Also, the fact that men tend to kill their wives more often could easily be a reaction to the fact that men have so much less power when it comes to the law in relationships. If me…
/r/MensRights26/06/13 09:19 PM
1

The fact that a man is considered to be dependable, capable and reliable would be benevolent. I don't think this is really true of all men. There are two stereotypes, the worthless man, and the man who is reliable. If you can manage to fit into the second one you will be seen as reliable, but you don't automatically fall into that category.
/r/MensRights26/06/13 09:01 PM
1

I'm not degraded by anything; as I said: I refuse to be. Wearing a skirt isn't degrading, yet you make it out to be a personal attack on your worth as a person. This is making something out to be degrading when it really isn't. I'm not degraded by anything; as I said: I refuse to be. Yet you talk as if you have it so hard when you actually have it far better than men in the similar situation. If men would stop perceiving women as little weaklings and comparing themselves to them, then men would …
/r/MensRights26/06/13 07:07 PM
0

It's not conditioned into them by society, society explicitly requires men to work harder and sacrifice more in order to be as valuable as women. This is not an advantage for men. If men didn't have to pay child support or and if they had access to sex and relationships as easily as women do then perhaps they would make similar choices to the ones women make.
/r/MensRights25/06/13 06:00 PM
5

males generally have an easier time succeeding in the workplace and in politics I don't think there is much evidence that this is true. Men dominate these areas because they have greater desire and motivation to do so.
/r/MensRights25/06/13 02:57 AM
3

The problem is that feminists look at power from a very simplistic perspective that just happens to be the way of looking at power that makes men have the most of it. Sure, if you look at the people who make the decisions and who have more of the money men tend to be on top. But if you look at who gets the decisions made that they want, women tend to have equal or more power than men. Witness the power of the feminist lobby, which merely has to ask in order to get Obama to do what they want, eve…
/r/MensRights25/06/13 02:55 AM
7

He makes a very valid point. If women are half of all the positions with power and not half of all the positions with no power then they have more than half the power in society. But I guess it's easier to just ignore it.
/r/MensRights25/06/13 02:47 AM
1

"read the body language (and direct messages) and respond appropriately". Why is it my job to find out what everyone else is feeling and change my behavior to accommodate that? Your emotions are your own business, and you don't have a right to dictate others behavior based upon them, especially when they are not based upon facts and are based upon bigotry. I can't just demand that black people not talk to me because it makes me uncomfortable, and women can't do the same to men. If you really wan…
/r/MensRights25/06/13 02:42 AM
1

I honestly don't feel that female on male rape is a big issue. It seems to me when MRA's get all upset about that they are just trying to beat women at their own game, which will never work. What we need is less sensationalism and more sensible definitions of rape when they are applied to both genders. I think most of the men who have been raped are raped only if we use absurd feminist definitions.
/r/MensRights24/06/13 07:30 PM
1

Feminists are complaining that young girls see 'feminism' as a dirty word and assuming it's because of the ancient 'hairy bra-burner' smear when in fact it's their own misandry putting them off. Or it could just be the "I want to earn the same and have men die for men and pay for my dinner" crowd. I find the fact that some feminists don't want men to pay for women's dinner is one of the largest things that turns women off feminism. (although feminists nowadays have a good way around this "whoeve…
/r/MensRights24/06/13 07:26 PM
1

If they are anything like the feminists I know in real life they have an amazing ability to ignore anything that goes against their world view. Anything bad about feminists fits into this category, so they go out of their way to not look at posts like these and forget them as quickly as possible.
/r/MensRights24/06/13 07:20 PM
1

Look if you try so hard to be degraded by things it is easy to be degraded by anything. For example, "pants have nothing to do with academic performance, and are merely a sign of the fact that men have to be constantly called upon to do physical work and sacrifice themselves for women. They are a constant reminder of how society sees men as tools." The difference is that the majority of men don't want to wear skirts; And of course that has nothing to do with the way society sees men who wear wom…
/r/MensRights24/06/13 07:13 PM
1

So your argument is that because you personally don't believe women are at a disadvantage compared to men that is not a core belief of feminism? I would be surprised if you managed to associate at all with feminist while holding that belief, and it seems you would need to spend a lot of your time fighting those you identify with, but I have an open mind. One example of a person who disagrees also doesn't mean that I am wrong. I am sure there is someone somewhere who calls themselves Christian an…
/r/MensRights16/06/13 10:18 PM
1

I have never seen someone claim they are right so many times while providing no arguments and no evidence for their position. I would hope that a graduate education would give you at least some evidence that supports your position, but that is probably too hopeful of me. And you don't need to be a tailor to say that the emperor isn't wearing any clothes.
/r/MensRights16/06/13 04:52 PM
2

Feminists are not actually doing anything about any of these issues, in fact they are making many worse, and have caused many of them. Feminists want us to believe that if we keep helping women, one day gender roles will disappear, and men will magically have no issues. This is total crap, and in fact the opposite is true. In no way are feminists doing anything about men's issues, in fact they are making them worse.
/r/MensRights16/06/13 12:32 AM
1

That is me. You are hardly going to admit that what you study is an ideology based upon little to no evidence. So, instead, we can deal with actual facts, and you can show me evidence of all the feminists who don't think women are oppressed relative to men, which of course you should have, since you know oh so much about these issues. And if you knew anything about logic you would recognize that even if what you were saying is true I am not making a logical error, merely disagreeing with you on …
/r/MensRights16/06/13 12:24 AM
1

there is literally no model that explains that. Because clearly everyone wants to work as many hours as possible, and no-one values time off at all. there are less than a dozen studies there, not all of them provide parity, and many of them confirm that men are more likely to cause damage or kill their partner. There is one review of over 250 studies in the sidebar. As for the more likely to kill their partner number, women tend to use methods that don't show up in police reports as a spousal ki…
/r/MensRights15/06/13 03:53 AM
1

I will use Christianity instead And obviously there are many core beliefs that define Christians, namely the belief in Christ as the son of god. Similarly there are beliefs that define feminists, namely beliefs about patriarchy theory and how women have it worse than men and have been oppressed throughout history. "feminists" who do not hold those beliefs are seen as anti-feminist by the majority of feminists, and by the feminist establishment, and so, like "christians" that don't believe in chr…
/r/MensRights15/06/13 03:44 AM
0

Do you always argue by misunderstanding other peoples arguments in a way that only an idiot would make them and then feeling superior when you call them absurd? Your argument is completely unscientific. Therefore, as you would have to argue, all non-feminists are unscientific. Sounds absurd, no? Again if you don't bother to understand what people are arguing you can convince yourself that any good argument you encounter is actually absurd idiocy. I hope doing so helps you feel smart, because oth…
/r/MensRights14/06/13 11:47 PM
1

I normally don't engage in meta arguments, but I don't see how you can say that men don't sacrifice more for money, and yet also believe, when shown that they do sacrifice more, that it they don't sacrifice enough. what metric would you like to use to assign value to the opportunity to work more hours for the same pay, if your situation demands it? because situations demand it of women too, just as much as men, where they have the job but not the opportunity. i'm all ears. Are you trying to argu…
/r/MensRights14/06/13 09:55 PM
1

You appeared to be making the claim that it is absurd to say that all members of a group have some characteristic, a claim that I debunked with a counterexample. Feminism is unscientific because the view that the feminist movement holds can only be held if you pick and choose your research methodologies based upon whether you get the right answer. There is no set of fundamental research techniques or beliefs about people (other than the conclusions of feminism) which would cause you to develop t…
/r/MensRights14/06/13 08:47 PM
1

You were making the claim that it is absurd to say that all members of a particular group are unscientific. I provided a counterexample, and said that it isn't an absurd claim because there are plenty of groups that require one to disregard the principles of reason in order to be a member of them. So it is not absurd to claim that all members of a group are unscientific. The issue of whether feminism actually does disregard these principals is a separate question, one that I wasn't directly addr…
/r/MensRights14/06/13 08:25 PM
1

There are many reasons to think that historically men would have been much better than women at hunting or other physical tasks required for survival. Your argument seems to be saying that since none of these is 100% true, for increasingly dubious reasons (do you really think that men are only stronger these days because of modern technology and food? That is an extremely dubious claim that there is little to no evidence for. Also, your claims that the fact that men do vastly better at almost al…
/r/MensRights14/06/13 06:15 PM
1

In fact, if we want to talk about biological differences, the higher percentage of body fat makes women more competent at endurance hunting. Men beat women by significant margins in every test of endurance running. I don't know what your evidence is of this.
/r/MensRights14/06/13 05:59 PM
1

I wouldn't say that the perception that men are the stronger sex is the reason they receive less help. Even if that was part of the reason for the difference, it is not the direct cause. The direct cause is the greater help that women receive in large part due to feminism, the negative stereotypes and impossible standards that feminism spreads about men, and the legislation and legal system that discriminates against men. If we fix the perception that men are stronger there is no reason to think…
/r/MensRights14/06/13 05:48 PM
1

And you think men would be allowed to wear skirts? If you were forced to wear a skirt you would be in the same boat as men everywhere.
/r/MensRights14/06/13 05:01 PM
1

For example, motherhood, and woman as the primary carer is a central part of the cultural idea of woman and thus business will more likely employ a man (not owner of a womb) as oppose a woman (owner of a womb) on the basis of such. [Citation needed] There is little to no evidence that women are discriminated against in the workforce more than men are. Sure, women earn less if they choose to prioritize having children over working, but that is totally reasonable and fair. If you choose to priorit…
/r/MensRights14/06/13 04:59 PM
1

Okay, sure. Let's do a thought experiment. Let's establish that men are less sensitive than women. Therefore, people generally accept that men should be able to deal with adversity easier than women. This creates a societal expectation (among men and women alike) that a "real" man should just "man up" if he has problems. Quoting from above: I don't see that this follows. We could accept that men are tougher than women, praise them and reward them for it, and even still give help to those few men…
/r/MensRights14/06/13 04:45 PM
1

Maybe feminism isn't the largest force supporting it, but it still supports it. Look at the reaction feminists have when men try to speak out about their problems. Look at how feminists constantly lobby for special treatment of women accused of crimes, and advocate for harsher punishment for men. Look at how feminists minimize all the problems men face constantly, by portraying all their problems as inconsequential compared to women's problems and/or self caused. Feminists also created the idea …
/r/MensRights14/06/13 03:42 PM
1

Feminism is far less diverse than you appear to be claiming, and almost all feminists have certain beliefs so that those beliefs basically become part of the definition of feminist. The beliefs that feminists generally all share are bigoted, biased, and anti-male.
/r/MensRights14/06/13 02:15 PM
1

The logic behind claiming that feminists are unscientific is the same as that behind claiming that people who believe the earth is flat are unscientific. Having beliefs that cannot be arrived at through good research is very good evidence that you haven't been performing good research.
/r/MensRights14/06/13 02:12 PM
1

it is not commensurate with A. the gain and with B. the presented opportunity. Again, you are just stating things with no evidence, things that can be shown to not be true. And you seem to be just throwing any old argument you can dream up at me in the hopes that something sticks. If you don't hold your beliefs because of the points you raise why do you bring them up? in the case of the main study (is it CRT, CRT2?) they use a variety of questions that do not distinguish between, say, throwing a…
/r/MensRights14/06/13 04:34 AM
2

Well, research is complicated so I am going to believe my model. Men dominate almost all activities, from chess to all sporting events to basically all competitions involving skill. So my model is that men are just better than women at everything, and that is why they earn more. But I am not going to stoop to your level, so I will provide a real, non-bigoted answer to that question. Men are valued less by society. Society is and generally has throughout history valued women's protection and welf…
/r/MensRights14/06/13 04:00 AM
1

yes, for a variety of reasons. not because women are in a better position. Glad you finally agree. So going back to why we started talking about this you must also agree that men sacrifice more for the additional money that they earn. the available studies have deeply flawed methodology, partially because the data itself is by necessity deeply subjective. How is the methodology flawed? What you are doing here is as bigoted and wrong as me saying that since men perform better at chess and sports,…
/r/MensRights14/06/13 03:54 AM
1

that's simply not true; lots of women are corralled into a field due to pay and lots of men increasingly pick lower paying jobs that are more satisfying. Of course there are expceptions, but on average it is true. it's not evidence, it's a model that fits. and i openly acknowledge that we don't have a lot of great evidence to support it, but we also don't have a better fitting model. We have better evidence, and taking a crappy model over solid evidence is evidence of huge bias. i cannot get inv…
/r/MensRights14/06/13 03:17 AM
1

earnings are not about sacrifice typically? Working longer hours, choosing a field based upon pay rather than satisfaction are just a few of the ways that men sacrifice more than women in order to earn more. You should know this if you have looked at any sensible research regarding gender differences in choice or explaining the wage gap. i gave other reasons for the DV case that had little to do with the success of any research methods. i'm a little concerned you're not reading my responses. :/ …
/r/MensRights14/06/13 02:54 AM
1

lack of parity of income hurts every other marginalized group. unless you think women don't need to eat or don't need to spend money to improve their skillset, but men do, then it hurts women. Earning less by sacrificing less does not hurt people. that there is an epidemic of unreported rape that women are the vast majority of the victims of domestic violence These two claims cannot really both be held without picking and choosing research methods. With rape, feminist choose to believe that surv…
/r/MensRights14/06/13 02:30 AM
1

No, that is not how science works at all. You don't have a variety of experimental setups or data analysis methods and choose the one that gives you the answer you want. You formulate a hypothesis and then do your experiment and take the result whether it supports what you want the result to be or not. all of the other things you mention are both problematic and not exemplary of all feminists, or even most. feminism is way too big for me to pretend we've never done bad research. but it's not abo…
/r/MensRights14/06/13 01:53 AM
1

Well fine, if you apply the term feminist theory only to the people who study the implications of women's oppression then nothing is wrong. Of course the whole field is useless because women are not oppressed, but that is a different issue. I have been linked to evidence of some of the things feminists link, but that evidence does appear to be picking it's assumptions based upon trying to prove that women are oppressed. For example, the difference in wages by gender is assumed to be a disadvanta…
/r/MensRights13/06/13 10:38 PM
1

I take it that you are agreeing that nothing feminist research says is true; it is all only true if women are oppressed. Since most of the evidence for women being oppressed comes from feminist research that means that there is basically no evidence for any of the claims feminism makes about anything.
/r/MensRights13/06/13 10:27 PM
1

Evolutionary biology does not assume that evolution is true. It studies the way in which life arose, and there are no competing theories that are even plausible. The way mathematics operates is that it takes axioms and then explores what is true if those axioms are true. If this is what you are claiming feminism is doing then none of the claims any feminist research makes can be taken to be true, merely they are true if it is the case that women are oppressed and have been throughout history.
/r/MensRights13/06/13 10:19 PM
1

That is an absurdity. How is it an absurdity? Would it be absurd to claim that there weren't any people that argue scientifically for the flat earth hypothesis? Give a counter example if it is so absurd.
/r/MensRights13/06/13 10:07 PM
1

Not everything is nuanced. When you have a large, organized movement with very little dissent that blacklists anyone who doesn't have the certain opinions it is pretty safe to say that having those opinions is an essential part of being a part of that group.
/r/MensRights13/06/13 10:01 PM
1

Do you not see a difference between assuming basic laws of logic and assuming that women are oppressed? One is necessary to do basically any thinking or research whatsoever, the other is a claim that can be proved or disproved.
/r/MensRights13/06/13 09:57 PM
1

Would you trust a dictionary from soviet russia's definition of communism?
/r/MensRights13/06/13 09:47 PM
1

I am sure you hunt with a spear and other primitive stone weapons, and carry the animals back with your hands right?
/r/MensRights13/06/13 09:45 PM
1

Because it hurts women's egos if men are better at anything that women. This is why feminism tries to get it so that every positive thing has at least 50% women doing it.
/r/MensRights13/06/13 09:37 PM
1

I would just like to point out that given your definition of patriarchy feminism is probably the largest force supporting it. Men's rights would then in fact be one of the biggest anti-patriarchy forces, as would any type of anti-feminism. This makes me think that the way you are using the term is not the same way as other people use it (either that or they are incredibly stupid and deluded). Secondly, you seem to be discussing a set of values without looking at whether those values are a reflec…
/r/MensRights13/06/13 09:29 PM
1

I know you are not trying to say men can't approach you, but you are saying that they can only approach you in the way that you want, when the way that you want is not the same as all other women, and men have no way of knowing what way you want to be approached.
/r/MensRights30/05/13 01:12 PM
1

Yes, and also aspects where they had advantages due to their gender, so it doesn't make sense to say that they were oppressed by men. This is especially true when the way things were was largely determined by biology and not something that either gender could escape from. Ignoring the above is misandry at it's finest.
/r/MensRights30/05/13 01:08 PM
1

There have been cases where men have been put to death in the same way. Yet you somehow seem to ignore all of these and just assume that women have it worse.
/r/MensRights30/05/13 01:05 PM
1

Yea, and on major TV and nothing happened. You are trying to fight against what random drunk people say, which could only be dealt with by basically making society totalitarian, instead of the fact that it is totally socially acceptable to joke about mutilating male genitals. This makes me question your priorities. You also appear to be attempting to fix the negative experiences that you go through without even considering the negative consequences for the other side. Some women like it when guy…
/r/MensRights30/05/13 05:06 AM
2

This isn't true at all. Men and women had different roles throughout history, each with advantages and disadvantages. Feminism gave women all the advantages of the male role without any of the disadvantages (in fact it has mad them worse). To deny the disadvantages men faced in society and insist that men were oppressing women is bigotry at it's finest (the best example of a disadvantages is the draft and the general lack of protection for men compared to women).
/r/MensRights30/05/13 05:01 AM
1

You have no evidence for any of the claims in this paragraph. Your statement is akin to statements that used to be made by racists about how blacks were obviously more violent than whites in that it is a result of bias instead of evidence.
/r/MensRights30/05/13 04:58 AM
1

Studies try their damndest and are constantly renewing their models, including any new ideas that might surface about what those differences include, and they still find sizable amounts of the gap is unexplained--the exact opposite of what the OP claims. The data to control for all the factors that effect pay at the same time does not, and likely will not ever exist. Attributing any unexplained difference to discrimination just because it cannot 100% be ruled not to be discrimination is absurd, …
/r/MensRights30/05/13 04:55 AM
0

A large body of research finds that even after controlling for those variables there is still a wage gap, and some research even suggests this "unexplained" portion of the wage gap is growing. After controlling for some of those variables there is still a gap. Studies never control for all the different choices that effect how much people are pay. If you are buying "lower quality" parts and paying less, that doesn't imply you would prefer to only use the lower quality parts just because it saves…
/r/MensRights03/05/13 02:28 PM
3

I don't think we really have any idea what a future war could be like.
/r/MensRights03/05/13 05:32 AM
3

I think that what both groups are doing is very important for the movement. It helps to have a more radical element, and AVFM appeals to those who have been really hurt by feminism of feminist activism. It probably also has an effect of increasing the amount of support that more moderate organizations get since people will find out about the issues from AVFM even if they are turned off by certain elements of their message. That said I do tend to agree with AVFM on most things.
/r/MensRights03/05/13 05:23 AM
4

They recently made a long article listing their policy on a whole variety of issues. I don't think they really need to have a unified policy though.
/r/MensRights03/05/13 03:59 AM
6

Isn't the mandate of AVFM more to change laws and spread awareness of men's issues than to attempt to be a support group for men? If you want to create a group more for helping abused men then I think you would be filling a different niche within the movement. Personally I think anti-feminism is more important, as I think a lot of the problems abused men face are because women are able to use the system to prevent them from defending themselves and to harm them in other ways, so I think challeng…
/r/MensRights03/05/13 03:42 AM
21

Dog misbehaving? It's the man's fault. Too cold out? It's the man's fault.
/r/MensRights02/05/13 12:01 AM
1

our movement isn't taken very seriously right now due to a lot of the baseless hate and it's up to activists like you and I do make sure that changes. It is far more important for the MRM to appeal to those hurt be feminism or feminist advocacy that to appeal to feminists who will never really care about men's issues. Earlier MR movements tried to work with feminism and were very unsuccessful. People in the mainstream are starting to become aware of the issues men face and the intellectual and m…
/r/MensRights01/05/13 11:56 PM
1

Contracts you sign when you're inebriated aren't valid. You also don't punish the person for the fact that they signed them, and if you purchase things that you consume while drunk you are not able to get a refund. Really? Making a special legal difference for strangers is absurd. The law regarding rape is messed up, and even you don't agree with it, as you said in the post above. I am glad that you agree that what feminist are doing by spreading the idea that all drunk sex is rape is silly.
/r/MensRights01/05/13 03:27 AM
2

Drunk sex is not consensual because consent is informed, and when you're drunk you're (by definition, because of the biological effects alcohol factually has on the human brain - this is not an opinion) incapable of making the same sound judgments you would when you're sober. It's not that difficult to understand why people would say drunk sex isn't consensual. Except that legally you can consent to anything else other than sex when you are drunk, and also you are responsible for your actions wh…
/r/MensRights01/05/13 03:11 AM
3

And, by the way, that both men and women participate in maintaining oppressive power structures. But feminist claim that women had no or very little power throughout history, so it follows that men are to or hold the vast majority of the blame for the actions of the power structures. Most feminists do NOT believe this. Well yea, they don't admit it, but they publish add campaigns that imply it, and subscribe to theories that basically say society (in which women have little power) supports rape.…
/r/MensRights01/05/13 02:56 AM
4

"Why the end of the world is a women's issue"
/r/MensRights01/05/13 02:33 AM
6

Well, if you believe the things that most feminists do you believe that men oppressed women held then down and made their live miserable for most of history. That is no better than the conspiracy theories of the anti-semites. If you are like most feminist you probably also think that men are collectively responsible for rape and that rape only occurs because men in general are negligent regarding it and support it. If you don't believe either of these things feminists would probably kick you out…
/r/MensRights01/05/13 02:20 AM
4

He is being downvoted because the way the genders act is at least partially biological. Saying gender is a social construct is just more feminist BS.
/r/MensRights01/05/13 02:17 AM
6

Yea, except that feminism never does that, denies that men can be raped, covers up female on male domestic violence and promotes discrimination against men when it comes to these issues. Ask yourself it an add campaign that said "I am a black person against gang rape" would be allowed. It wouldn't, because it implies that black people are collectively responsible for gang rape and that the default black is involved in it. There IS the assumption that people who don't know and never learned about…
/r/MensRights01/05/13 02:16 AM
5

You don't actually believe the phrase "men are evil" but you believe things about men that basically imply that, which isn't any better, unless we give you a pass because of stupidity.
/r/MensRights01/05/13 02:12 AM
3

Never mind the fact that feminists definition is absolutely absurd, and would probably make almost everyone who had sex a rapist. This isn't about teaching anyone anything, it is about brainwashing them to believe feminist garbage.
/r/MensRights01/05/13 02:09 AM
3

Sex is the physical differences between male and female, something that is not a cultural construct. Gender is the internalized ideal personalities for somebody with a specific set of external sexual characteristics, which varies between culture and time, and applies to both women AND men What about the differences in behaviour that are due to biology?
/r/MensRights01/05/13 02:05 AM
4

She says that the false accusations of rape men go through are few in between. We can only prove that between 5-8% of rape accusations reported to the police are false. However we can only prove that about 5% are true. For the rest we simply don't know. Rape cases do get thrown out a lot, but that is because by it's very nature rape often leaves no evidence and so it is not possible to convict a person beyond a reasonable doubt.
/r/MensRights30/04/13 05:12 AM
0

It's really just that men are supposed to do everything unpleasant, and have throughout history, violence included.
/r/MensRights30/04/13 04:21 AM
5

I find there is a certain way to approach things when it comes to MR issues to avoid being preachy. One of the best ways is to bring it up when it comes up from some other issues, for example if single mothers come up you can discuss the issues regarding fatherlessness and the discrimination in family courts that cause it. You can also find people making feminist type comments and that is often a neat segue into the whole MR discussion. If people are not taking the discussion seriously it doesn'…
/r/MensRights30/04/13 03:53 AM
1

I hate these articles that talk about the problems with masculinity. There are no problems with masculinity, the problems are with a society that has little use for it and very little respect or compassion for the men that demonstrate it.
/r/MensRights30/04/13 03:42 AM
4

I think calling ourselves the MRM helps to spread awareness of our opposition to feminism, and the fact that men have equal or more pressing issues because of their gender than women do. Some people don't know that men have any issues. I also think that any group which pretends to be fighting for both genders will quickly become dominated by feminists who will attempt to change it so that feminist issues dominate.
/r/MensRights30/04/13 12:24 AM
2

I think that the concept of masculinity that’s being pushed by our society is really messed up and extremely harmful to men. Actually this isn't a men's rights issue at all. I want to act masculine, and that isn't a bad thing, contrary to what feminists would say. A more important men's rights issues is the fact that acting masculine is seen as a bad thing by people like you. I hate that men are raped and don’t report it because it makes them feel emasculated. Or because feminist organizations i…
/r/MensRights29/04/13 06:49 PM
5

You know there are options besides being bitchy and leading people on right?
/r/MensRights28/04/13 10:03 PM
1

Except that feminists spread misandry constantly, and the fact that men are not believed about domestic violence has been at least partially caused by feminist propaganda. The constant antagonism and defamation isn't helping anything. Yea, when a much greater movement constantly tried to fight against your cause you kind of need to fight back. It isn't MRA's fault that there is antagonism, it is necessary given the way the feminist movement acts.
/r/MensRights28/04/13 09:03 PM
3

I know this isn't what many want to hear on this sub, but feminist theory can also explain what happened. So can "aliens control everything" theory. That doesn't mean either of them is at all correct. You can't have misandry without misogyny existing, right? Uh yes you can? Someone saying men are stupid is misandry without misogyny.
/r/MensRights28/04/13 08:49 PM
1

From the study Additional portions of the raw gender wage gap are attributable to other explanatory factors that have been identified in the existing economic literature, but cannot be analyzed satisfactorily using only data from the 2007 CPS. Those factors include, for example, health insurance, other fringe benefits, and detailed features of overtime work, which are sources of wage adjustments that compensate specific groups of workers for benefits or duties that disproportionately affect them…
/r/MensRights27/04/13 06:02 PM
1

There is evidence that they are paid less for the same work. You can't say it is for the same work if you haven't accounted for all differences between the work that men and women do, which isn't done by any study. Don't presume to know everything about the feminist agenda I don't presume to know everything about the feminist agenda, I judge them by what they do and say. Which, is happening right now with you. How am I being a bigot? I am not saying anything that is anti-woman, just calling out …
/r/MensRights27/04/13 05:04 PM
11

We don't oppose women's rights, just the way feminism goes about advocating for them. We also need to make it known we are about men, because there is a strong tendency for female advocacy to swamp any ostensibly equal gender organization.
/r/MensRights27/04/13 03:33 PM
1

Yes, so we don't have any evidence that women are paid less for the same work, yet you insist that they are paid less for the same work and feminists constantly try to fix this problem which we don't even know exists. you'll see a LOT more gender bias coming from this side. What are you saying here if not calling this subreddit misogynist? I definitely call those who do out, If so, congradulatons. But you are definitely in the minority, I have heard very few feminists fight against bigotry withi…
/r/MensRights27/04/13 03:31 PM
-1

It is still bad, but not as bad as single motherhood.
/r/MensRights27/04/13 03:25 PM
1

You should really read studies before you cite them. From the study. The differences in raw wages may be almost entirely the result of the individual choices being made by both male and female workers. or, in other words we have no evidence that any of the wage gap is not due to differences in the work men and women do. What the study is doing is showing that absolute maximum amount of the wage gap that could even possibly be due to discrimination is between 4.8 and 7.1 percent (although feminis…
/r/MensRights27/04/13 06:11 AM
1

Although it's smaller than most people assume, it's still there. Citation please? Because I have read many of those studies, and they always leave off factors that are known to effect pay and that differ between the genders. You have to do so because the data to control for all factors that effect pay at the same time is simply not available. No study has proved that any of the wage gap was ever due to discrimination, they all just fail to explain it all due to bad methodology and then attribute…
/r/MensRights27/04/13 05:38 AM
1

I fail to see how women doctors do much different than male doctors, and yet "Male doctors make $12,000 more per year than female doctors." Yes, you fail to see it because you haven't looked at the data. Maybe you should actually learn something about what you are talking about before forming opinions. Male doctors tend to work in specialized aspects of medicine more, which requires more schooling, tend to work longer hours, and tend to take fewer career breaks. These are only a few of the diffe…
/r/MensRights27/04/13 04:58 AM
1

I don't think that I am better than a man in any way, I just would like the same opportunities in life. The religious part comes when you insist that you don't have them despite the fact that it isn't true. For example, the study you cited that compares the average wages of men and women does not prove at all that men and women earn different amounts for the same work. The fact is that men and women do vastly different types of work on average, and so any comparison of average salaries is meanin…
/r/MensRights27/04/13 03:49 AM
2

Single motherhood is a stronger predictor of deviant behaviour than income level.
/r/MensRights27/04/13 03:42 AM
2

Because statistically it is a huge problem. Children of single mothers are at a much greater risk for basically every problematic behaviour.
/r/MensRights27/04/13 02:21 AM
2

Why is that?
/r/MensRights27/04/13 12:51 AM
2

It is funny how to blame women at all for a problem that they are at least 50 % to blame for is considered misogyny worthy of getting you fired, yet people constantly blame men for the full problem with absolutely no repercussions.
/r/MensRights27/04/13 12:51 AM
1

Well I guess we will see. Precisely who caused the draft is not really relevant to the argument I was trying to make though.
/r/MensRights26/04/13 06:58 PM
0

Yes, to allow them in combat, which is not at all the same as forcing them into combat. If I lobby to allow men to wear women's clothing that does nothing at all to change or make better the fact that women are forced to wear it.
/r/MensRights26/04/13 06:27 PM
1

Clearly your unsupported conjecture has won the argument.
/r/MensRights26/04/13 02:55 PM
0

What's the alternative when you can't get at source material You are basically living in ignorance either way. News media can give you some information about some things that are going on in some countries, but if you want to really understand anything you need different sources. You have not provided an alternative. You shouldn't form beliefs based solely on anecdotal information received from sources that have known bias. Are you trying to argue that you should believe the news media because y…
/r/MensRights26/04/13 02:18 PM
4

I think it would almost have been better to submit the article than this poster.
/r/MensRights26/04/13 02:17 PM
1

The result for googling feminism are much more encouraging. I think it is merely that MRA's are more strongly identified with what they believe than with any label, which is as it should be. People with any sense also tend to come to the movement after hearing about it from feminist criticism.
/r/MensRights26/04/13 02:10 PM
1

No need to get angry. Everyone is occasional is caught believing things without evidence, there is no shame in it. It was conjecture you twit, of course I "made it up to prove a point". If you beliefs rest upon unproven conjecture they are not really worth taking seriously any more. I could conjecture that feminism would support concentration camps for men and it would be no more supported that what you are saying. It has been a good discussion up to this point however. Nice talking to you.
/r/MensRights26/04/13 02:02 PM
0

it doesn't prove they'd cheer him on if he actually went out and committed mass murder against feminism, but it strongly suggests they wouldn't condemn him of it at the very least. Now you are just making stuff up based upon what you want to believe in order to prove a point.
/r/MensRights26/04/13 01:33 PM
1

Secondly, my level of education or background on this topic is not established (and the fact that i disagree with you doesn't say anything about that) and any assertion about my education is baseless I wasn't questioning your education, I was questioning your education on the topic. This is the weaksauce argument that conspiracy theorists use "you only hear what the man tells you maaannnnn". The news reports stories, which are by their very nature anecdotal, and they report what people want to h…
/r/MensRights26/04/13 06:09 AM
1

Is it though? Has rape been reduced more than other violent crimes in the same period?
/r/MensRights26/04/13 05:54 AM
1

Will you statistically be paid more than women? Yes. Only because statistically I will work more, have fewer benefits, be more willing to relocate, have less job security, take fewer breaks from my career, and am more likely to be injured at work. But I guess all of those factors don't matter. When you go out drinking with friends have you EVER had a fear that you were going to be sexually assaulted? No, I haven't, because I base my fear on the actual risk, not on sensationalism. If someone is i…
/r/MensRights26/04/13 05:41 AM
1

I notice the ration of arguments to statements that my position is absurd is incredibly low. I am half Lebanese, half Palestinian, come from a Muslim background and have a Muslim name. Oh, that makes your uneducated opinion based upon information from feminist america news sources so much more convincing to me. I think the hijab is absurd and i used absurd language to highlight that notion. It certainly isn't absurd because it is so different from what other men in desert countries wear, which i…
/r/MensRights26/04/13 05:27 AM
2

This is where I usually resort to showing why their arguments are bigoted and/or idiotic and just repeating that in the hope that eventually it sinks in.
/r/MensRights26/04/13 05:00 AM
0

The right to drive, vote, and walk around without a blanket over your head (in the desert no less) Please, don't make ridiculous arguments like calling a hjab a blanket. Plenty of desert tribes have worn clothing that doesn't expose themselves in desert climates, so arguing that they are oppressive because they are not suited to the climate is ridiculous and makes me question your claim to be middle eastern. are very basic rights. And the right not to be forced to die for your country isn't? Tha…
/r/MensRights26/04/13 04:51 AM
4

They do matter, but women have it worse [use MR arguments to show that they don't] men benefit, too!! Ask how, and show how many men's problems have gotten worse since feminism started, or have been directly caused by feminism.
/r/MensRights26/04/13 04:37 AM
0

And men are drafted in the united states. Clearly the united states is an unilaterally bigoted society where men are basically slaves.
/r/MensRights26/04/13 04:35 AM
1

Plenty of western men are deluded about the situation regarding gender in the west. I have yet to see the type of analysis that would indicate to men that women are oppressed more than men in the middle east. Mostly I just see sensationalism and anecdotal evidence.
/r/MensRights26/04/13 04:14 AM
1

The picture we typically get of gender issues in the middle east is highly skewed.
/r/MensRights26/04/13 04:07 AM
3

Well I would ask you what specifically about men's issues being caused by patriarchy causes them not to matter. The usual reason people say this is because they are caused by men. FGM, whether it is caused by patriarchy or not is certainly enforced and perpetrated by women to a large extent. So there needs to be some other reason given why men's issues being caused by patriarchy makes them not okay.
/r/MensRights26/04/13 04:06 AM
1

They are not even really fighting all of the symptoms.
/r/MensRights26/04/13 02:12 AM
2

Basically yes. In their minds saying that a woman might not actually have been raped as she claims is the same thing as saying she deserved to be raped.
/r/MensRights26/04/13 02:01 AM
1

Sort of off topic, but does anyone know why people tend to describe themselves as "a female" or "a male" instead of as a man or a woman when discussion gender relations?
/r/MensRights26/04/13 01:58 AM
1

Because the current climate regarding gender issues, and the fact that people tend to care more about women will mean that any advocacy group that attempts to deal with both will be dominated by women's issues. Having being a man mean anything else than simply having a penis is unconscionable in today's climate of gender equality. Men shouldn't have to earn their place any more than women do. There are tons of social problems that others will address, but I find the largest one is the general at…
/r/MensRights26/04/13 01:57 AM
13

Ask them how feminists are fighting patriarchy in general. Even if these issues are a result of patriarchy the fact that feminists only fight for certain issues means that just because something is a result of patriarchy doesn't mean they are fighting against it. What feminists are claiming here is something like if MRA's were claiming "Oh, you don't need to fight poverty, because poverty is a result of injustice, and injustice is something that the MRM is fighting ". It seems to be a way for pe…
/r/MensRights25/04/13 11:33 PM
2

And I'm talking about a prominent MRA website that praised him for his actions and received no censure for it. No, you are talking about 45 users on said site, not the site as a whole. There is a huge difference between 45 users and the leadership of an organization. The MRM is astronomically smaller than feminism, if a member actually did do something like Solaris it'd be evidence of astronomically greater hate in the MRM than feminism. I don't see that this is true at all. The hatefulness of a…
/r/MensRights25/04/13 09:16 PM
1

It would help to know what definition of patriarchy your friend is using and also what points he makes to argue that it exists.
/r/MensRights21/04/13 03:08 PM
0

Obviously feminism is helping women more than men.
/r/MensRights21/04/13 02:38 PM
2

Valerie Solanis was a radfem, which again, is debatably a fair comparison to hate groups. R I wasn't talking about her, I was talking about the board member of the largest feminist organization in the united states that praised her for her actions and received no censure for it. To me that indicates a tolerance of hate within the movement that is deeply disturbing. I don't think a comment on a random website is even close to that level of hate, especially since the commenter did not actually com…
/r/MensRights21/04/13 05:43 AM
1

I would say misogynists here are rarer than misandrists in mainstream society.
/r/MensRights21/04/13 05:05 AM
4

Yes, of course we should stick to the facts. And the argument wasn't made in this article to show how the bias was feminist. In this it was probably wrong. However feminists did try to get schools to combat discrimination against women in the early 90's from what I understand when men were actually falling behind, and are responsible for a lot of anti-male ideas and propaganda, so the argument could probably be made that bias against boys in schools is at least partially a result of feminism.
/r/MensRights21/04/13 04:59 AM
2

People in positions of authority in the largest feminist organization in the united states have said that Valerie Solanis, who wrote a book saying that all men should be killed, and actually attempted to shoot several men was "a true feminist hero" and as far as I know faced no repercussions. Feminism might not as directly responsible for committing acts of violence (so a better comparison might be the WBC) but they have said things that are just as hateful as any hate movement throughout histor…
/r/MensRights21/04/13 04:53 AM
0

Because we want to be better than feminists, and because we accept things for the value of what is being said, not because of the person saying it. I also don't think many female MRA's are telling us are business, and it is pretty easy to identify "fake" MRA's because they tend to do so.
/r/MensRights21/04/13 04:42 AM
0

The difference is the male feminists and traditionalists are advocating for things that help others, the female ones are just entitled if they are indeed as the OP describes.
/r/MensRights21/04/13 04:40 AM
3

It's just like all those people criticizing the KKK just because their movement is racist and perpetrates violence against black people. Clearly the civil rights movement should have tried to compromise with them.
/r/MensRights21/04/13 04:38 AM
-5

It is totally in our interest to be attacking feminism, because feminism is the biggest obstacle to equality for men, and has basically created many MR problems through it's bigoted activism.
/r/MensRights21/04/13 04:34 AM
1

I'm not saying that reaffirming consent needs to be explicit, "Is it okay for me to do X now? Yes? Okay." This is basically what feminists are insisting on now. I meant giving the other person time to see and know what's happening so that there are no unpleasant surprises for anyone, and watching for any "back off" signals that arise. So it's rape if they didn't give the other person time? That seems like a pretty silly rule. I think people should just say stop if they want someone to stop, and …
/r/MensRights21/04/13 04:10 AM
2

The issue isn't that people are awful at reading signals, it is that signals are never unambiguous. But the worst thing that can happen is that the person who doesn't want to have sex has to say no. Open communication does not put all the burden on one person to make sure they know what the other person is thinking. There is also the problem that asking for consent is not sexy, whatever we like to pretend. That is the reason that there needs to be way infer consent from peoples actions (at least…
/r/MensRights21/04/13 02:10 AM
9

Maybe if you actually took the time to create arguments, instead of just saying "don't call me stupid" it would take you longer than 10 minutes to type each comment. Actually, the time it takes for you and the other person to type out their comments needs to be longer than 10 minutes, so if you are taking longer than a couple of minutes to formulate your arguments and type them out the 10 minute limit shouldn't be a problem.
/r/MensRights20/04/13 08:58 PM
4

If feminism isn't a scientific field is it not problematic for psychology to be influenced by it though? Wouldn't that be like physics being influenced by lobbying pressure from Christian organizations? I think typhonblue's point is totally relevant if you take it as given that scientific fields should not be influenced by ideological groups not based upon reason and evidence.
/r/MensRights20/04/13 08:35 PM
0

Sometimes you need to make it clear exactly how the person is being ridiculous and rub in why it is such a problem. Being civil is reserved for people having discussions in good faith, otherwise you are just giving in to their bias.
/r/MensRights20/04/13 08:33 PM
1

Yes. People here don't complain about problems that have never been demonstrated to exist like feminists do.
/r/MensRights20/04/13 08:31 PM
2

A sad irony given this subreddit is notorious for judging Feminism in a similar fashion. Yea, I hate it when people do this to groups. When people find out I am a member of the KKK then automatically assume all sorts of negative things about me.
/r/MensRights20/04/13 08:15 PM
8

If we truly treat everyone equally it won't matter if you identify as male of female. Some feminists have problems with transpeople because they aren't sure whether to put them into the privileged or oppressor class. But since the MRM is not in favour of any special benefits for men it is irrelevant whether they were born male or just identify as male.
/r/MensRights20/04/13 08:13 PM
5

Also, a pretty basic factor you would need to control for would be the age groups involved. Young men could be falling behind and the population as a whole wouldn't reflect that for 40 years, by which time the problem would be much worse than it would have been if it was dealt with immediately.
/r/MensRights20/04/13 07:33 PM
10

So more men in prison and more homeless men aren't an indicator of men falling behind? If you define terms based upon what you need them to mean in order for your argument to be correct you can justify any amount of ridiculousness. And why is falling behind measured solely in terms of income? Why not measure it in terms of quality of life, or ability to accomplish what you want too? At the very least don't compare two people who earn the same amount and work different hours and say that they are…
/r/MensRights20/04/13 06:10 PM
12

There are no feminists subs that don't ban you for disagreeing with feminist "facts".
/r/MensRights20/04/13 06:06 PM
0

Sometimes you do. If someone is just denying basic logic the only point that is left to make is to call them on their idiocy.
/r/MensRights20/04/13 03:49 PM
1

What legitimate point? All feminists are doing is hysterical emoting.
/r/MensRights20/04/13 03:30 PM
1

Sex with a person who is too drunk to give informed consent is and should be rape. Unfortunately, no-one ever bothers to make it clear when someone is too drunk, and the test of whether drunk sex is rape is usually just taken to be whether the person regrets the sex in the morning. its a debate on why it is important to acknowledge that the overwhelming majority of rape victims are women and so as a group they have a right to feel entitled in any discussion on the topic. Again, this is not true …
/r/MensRights20/04/13 06:53 AM
0

Yea, obviously I was exaggerating slightly. But any drunk sex that the person didn't enjoy is counted as rape by feminists, as well as any sex that wasn't specifically verbally agreed too, and even sex that was agreed too but after repeated asking. This is what mainstream feminism counts as rape.
/r/MensRights20/04/13 06:43 AM
-1

Except that it doesn't happen way more frequently if you use feminist definitions of rape ( ie any sex that I didn't really want and I can somehow make an excuse for consenting too.
/r/MensRights20/04/13 06:35 AM
1

I think it's more useful to define true consent first. Not present when your partner's under the influence of drugs or alcohol, or unconscious, needs to be granted for each different act and constantly reaffirmed in general, and so on. Or we could just use a sensible definition of consent where the person has to be conscious, and consent can be inferred from peoples actions.
/r/MensRights20/04/13 06:20 AM
0

Provoking someone by challenging their bigoted beliefs should be done as often as possible. You can't really negotiate with people who are bigoted, because there should be zero tolerance for bigotry, and a compromise between bigots and non-bigots will still involve bigotry.
/r/MensRights20/04/13 06:18 AM
1

You seem to have some major issues understanding any kind of sarcasm or sophisticated reasoning along the lines of parody. You just literally said that anyone who's smart would agree with you. Yes, in response to your statement that anyone who needs proof that slut shaming exists is clearly not a social person. If that is all the evidence you think you need to show slut shaming exists I am not going to bother providing good evidence for my position, since your position is clearly not determined …
/r/MensRights18/04/13 04:40 AM
4

Yes, I would also appreciate less clarity from the OP.
/r/MensRights17/04/13 09:53 PM
1

The real lesson here is if you are going to have sex with a drunk person you might as well rape them at knife point, because legally the two are the same thing.
/r/MensRights17/04/13 09:51 PM
3

that's why we need to change the culture that makes rape seem okay to some people. T Rape doesn't seem okay to anyone outside a small minority of immoral people that commit rapes. These are likely the same types of people who commit all crimes. We will never live in a society where everyone respects the rules, there will always be deviant behaviour, and no amount of feminist posters are going to change that (if anything they probably make it worse).
/r/MensRights17/04/13 09:50 PM
1

I don't think you are allowed to link directly to anything from gawker here. Take a screenshot and link to that.
/r/MensRights17/04/13 12:46 PM
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