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trulyElse Archive

View 0 posts and 323 comments by trulyElse on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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–

It's not that small, sadly.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/26 08:30 AM
–

That means that there needs to be 100% evidence that growing up with gendered streotypes and culture has 0% effect on how men and women act. Wouldn't the evidence just have to show that it doesn't have 100% effect?
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/26 04:42 AM
–

And while I’m not someone saying we should go back to the times where men controlled all of society Don't worry, those times never actually existed. The closest to it you can point to, where men controlled more than their share of society, really was the start of the current trend of democracy, where land owners (or those willing to put their life on the line in the event of their country being invaded) were given the privilege of representation in matters of politics. Prior to that, society was…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/26 04:24 AM
–

It only takes a small gesture for her to feel elevated in his eyes. I'm not calling this mindset healthy, mind you. Just a tempting one for those who haven't really absorbed the lesson.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/26 10:48 PM
–

"He's like that with everyone" -> "I'm not special" -> "He won't prioritise me in an emergency" -> "I'm not safe"
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/26 08:10 PM
–

Generally, it seems that they think he's going to keep her safe because she's Her.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/26 07:52 PM
–

Very.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/26 06:59 PM
6

saying “nothing’s wrong” when something clearly is This one's interesting to me. I've observed three types of people in my life: The first type says "nothing's wrong" because they don't think they should have to explain why they're upset. The second type says "nothing's wrong" because they feel like they'd be imposing if they explained themselves the first time, and want to make sure you actually want to know. The third type says "nothing's wrong" because they feel like you asking is you saying …
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/26 09:40 AM
4

Most of the guys being told the advice that OP is complaining about aren't those guys.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/26 03:18 AM
1

Your high school students have a teacher to guide them through the unfamiliar lands. They have some kind of foundation upon which they can build their understanding. But dating doesn't have those. There's so much noise and nonsense that there's nothing to build upon. OP wants to cut through that nonsense and find out straight from the source what women want. And the answer is "You're stupid if you don't know already."
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/26 01:40 AM
11

So you're in the boat, but don't play a part? Pick up a damned oar and help.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/26 11:25 PM
4

If the media was honest about the loneliness problem, the only villain they could point to is the ever-nebulous "Society". If they spin it as only affecting women, they can blame men. If they spin it as only affecting men, they can blame men. So both options lead to juicy, juicy ad revenue from the controversy. So they picked the one of those two that rated higher in Truthiness, even though it's no more (or potentially less) true.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/26 11:23 PM
6

Trouble with that is how testosterone causes singular focus. And focus is peace. And anything that disrupts it is stress. When a man has a purpose and goal, everything that ranks lower than it is a disruption. If I'm in the supermarket, my focus is getting the ice cream home before it melts. I'm not looking for any signs or signals from anyone. If I'm at the gym, my focus is getting my reps in. I'm not looking for any signs or signals from anyone. If I'm at work, my focus is getting whatever tas…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/26 11:20 PM
7

You're familiar with the phrase "If I don't do it, it won't get done" right? That's all he's saying. If he doesn't focus on getting into a relationship, he will never be in a relationship, because culture has settled on the idea that it's the man's job to initiate. And he feels that women say "you shouldn't have to focus on a relationship" because they haven't considered how much work goes into initiation, and that a lot of the relationships that felt effortless were really just effortless on he…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/26 11:08 PM
4

Imagine thinking "X only happens when I'm actively trying to make it happen" means "I have no goals except for X" ...
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/26 11:01 PM
1

This is the logic behind "never ask a fish how to catch a fish" ...
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/26 07:15 PM
2

Can't be loved if you're not respected.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/26 06:34 PM
2

The inner world of the average man.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/26 06:32 PM
2

Everyone does everything they do for a reason. There's always some benefit behind the action, even if it's just "it feels good to see that I make people smile" or "It's what I'm used to." Saying "you should just do it anyway" isn't going to actually be actionable. It's not going to make people be nice. If they don't have a reason to do it, they won't. It's the same reason that someone with an "as you should" attitude gets no second dates.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/26 07:21 AM
8

Because feminists have political power, John. When hypocrites have power, society suffers.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/26 12:04 AM
0

And I believe it's confirmation bias.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/26 11:53 PM
3

Targeting deficits, providing an aspirational model, they both ultimately send the message of "buy our shit and be more than you are now." The Insult That Made a Man Out Of Mac is an iconic comicbook ad from the late 1920s through to the 1970s for Charles Atlas' workout guide. It depicts a scrawny guy "Mac" trying and failing to stand up to a beach bully that kicked sand in his girlfriend's face, and her disapproval of his impotent rage. He picks up Charles' book, gets buff, and socks the bully …
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/26 11:36 PM
2

I almost forgot Kratos, whose fanboys got upset when he became a less angry person and adopted a son. No, they got upset because the director said that all he was prior to that was anger. The developers didn't acknowledge his grief, his depression, his purposelessness, his chafing under the commands of others when all he wants is a moment to sit down his own emotions. They dismissed a very deep and complex character as "he angy" as a way to sell their New version of the character. And ironically…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/26 01:04 AM
2

but if they want to solve it they need to make it socially acceptable to say it. Women control this.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 11:56 PM
1

A lot of this damage is being done while very young. High school age. There's not a lot of "sexually and romantically successful men" for them to be befriending that doesn't look suspicious from the outside looking in.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 11:28 PM
0

Is there even a good place to look?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 11:18 PM
0

Maybe then the problem is that there's no coach. No mentor figure to help them find the balance. It's just sink or swim. Nobody actually cares about the boy, so he inevitably becomes a piece of shit, and everyone congratulates themselves on seeing it coming and not wasting their time on intervening.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 11:11 PM
1

There are certain behaviors at large scale that are attractive: confidence, competence, humor (the exact nature of which varies from person to person), general lifestyle. This answer alone would be enough to give a boy something to go off. But it's not what they get.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 11:02 PM
1

I literally started this thread asking for a definition.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 10:43 PM
1

Are you telling me you don't know what you're doing?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 09:57 PM
1

My point is you can't define something by using words that are undefined. It's like that episode of Cheers where the politician visits the bar, and he's like "I stand firm on the important issues!" and the bar cheers. Frasier asks "such as?" and the politician answers "The issues that are important to today!" and the bar cheers. The politician didn't say a damned thing. He didn't take a stance on anything. He hid the meaning of his statement behind language that anyone could project whatever the…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 09:51 PM
2

Thank you. So to make sure I'm understanding, when a woman on social media is like "A real man would ABC", she too is perpetuating toxic masculinity, right?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 09:48 PM
1

They're relative terms. What counts as good and what counts as bad depends on who's labelling it.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 09:40 PM
3

This makes it sound less like it's about behaviours and more like environments under which a man finds himself. At which point, it raises the question why it's always said that men need to do better to not have it, if the environment is the one thing they aren't in control over ...
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 09:35 PM
1

I want to draw attention to the fact that the concept of "toxic masculinity" is so fast and loose that it doesn't have an actual definition. It's purely done on vibes. Vibes that don't provide a path to salvation. Anything and everything can be considered "toxic masculinity" if it offends someone enough, even a guy defending his boundaries. So in the end, the only use the phrase even has is as a cudgel for narcissists to beat you with while sounding like they've got the moral high ground. Like e…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 09:16 PM
0

Ask women for their icks and it's stuff like "he sticks his tongue out when he ties his shoes" or "he grunts when he sits" ... Ask men for their icks and it's stuff like "she says "as you should" when I pay for stuff" or "she's rude to the wait staff" ...
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 08:58 PM
1

You know, I've never actually seen that behaviour from a man? I've seen men stand their ground when someone shows them general hostility, but otherwise, you're the closest fit to a man just deciding to be hostile to thinking differently that I've seen.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 08:54 PM
1

What are the fundamental behaviours that distinguish between "toxic masculinity" as discussed in popular discourse and "healthy masculinity" that is suggested as the alternative, and what would someone have to do in practice to move from the former to the latter?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 08:42 PM
4

Lilith. You are exactly what I expected.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 08:37 PM
3

It's like pointing to the moon, and they just stare at your finger ... This bothers me because he doesn't explain what good is, either. It's not explaining anything; it's just tautology with extra steps.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 08:37 PM
5

Who the fuck are you shadowboxing?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 08:32 PM
3

Because they didn't say anything. "What is healthy?" "When it's good."
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 08:32 PM
-1

Your answer didn't answer anything; it just kicked the can down the road.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 08:28 PM
-1

Nice dodge.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 08:18 PM
1

Now define healthy masculinity.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 08:18 PM
0

Define toxic masculinity and healthy masculinity.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 08:05 PM
8

And for clarity: when guys say "you" in this context, we specifically mean LilithOfBabylon puts words in men's mouths.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 08:03 PM
9

Straight men want a woman who likes them, regardless of her sexuality. Straight women want straight men. But women are given credit as the accepting ones.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 07:14 PM
3

Competence isn't gendered. Explain the "I'm just a girl!" routine.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 07:12 PM
1

I did. That's why I know to think about what they meant by their words instead of assuming they said the bad thing that those words sounded like. That's what empathy involves. So why are you continuing to mock me for it?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 07:08 PM
1

Pop feminism is NOT feminism. English is an interesting language because it doesn't have a central body, and is spoken all over the world. The dictionaries don't define the words, per se, but rather attempt to interpret consensus on the meanings of words as they're used by the public at large. And pop feminism is what people mean when they say feminism the vast majority of the time. So as far as English is concerned ... it's feminism. You might think this is unfair. You might be frustrated that …
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 07:07 PM
1

If half the time you talk to a guy he's left in tears, have you considered the possibility that you're the one who's not a good person? Like that is a seriously low rate of success for someone who's attracted to men.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 06:58 PM
0

I don't know what your objective is. Like I'm telling you outright that I would be a worse person if I did what it sounds like you want me to do, and you're just doubling down on it.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 06:50 PM
1

I think the most telling microcosm of what you're talking about is the "dad bod" discourse. A lot of women online are constantly saying that they're not attracted to jacked up gym bros, preferring a dad bod. Then you ask them what they mean by a dad bod, and they show you pictures of jacked up gym bros during a bulk phase. They don't say "I don't like muscles" because they don't like muscles - they absolutely like muscles - they say "I don't lile muscles" because they like a cuddly amount of fat…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 06:48 PM
2

Actually, the benefits of that are a little skewed by circumstance. Single and married men are roughly the same, but divorced men plummet in life expectancy, and a large part of that is how many of them had invested their life into their partner instead of their friends.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 06:44 PM
3

A lack of friends has been demonstrated to shorten life expectancy and severely impact mental health.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 06:34 PM
2

Although, if you call a bro five years after you past saw him, and ask if he wants to catch up over a pint, you'll get a much better reception than doing the same with an ex.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 06:33 PM
5

Okay, but the friendzone isn't actually a toxic idea, it's just one that people without empathy use as an excuse to hold contempt for unhappy people for mentioning. You look at the media that popularized the term, and the concept is simple: You grew close to her and it gave you feelings. She doesn't like you like that. She will never like you lioe that. Trying to make her like you like that is manipulative. Staying close to her and hoping she'll come around is only going to prolong that sufferin…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 06:31 PM
1

Trust me, dude. The way women have talked all my life would justify misogynists if I took what they said at face value.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 06:24 PM
2

More akin to "I spent decades listening to women oboy for my life to get worse for doing it, and it led me to some dark mental spaces, until it clicked that what it sounded like what it sounded like they were saying wasn't what they were trying to say, because they had a different experience with the words in the questions and answers" ...
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 06:09 PM
1

It's a post date assumption that the man who didn't pay for her first date was Just Not That Into Her. Wll you know what they say about assumptions ...
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 10:11 AM
1

Those women are clearly still out of his league, though.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 04:51 AM
5

The funny part is, simping or white knighting isn't going to get them any real validation anyway.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 03:10 AM
2

In other news, water makes things wet.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 03:06 AM
2

They have to actually communicate in the way these words are defined objectively. I already demonstrated that they are. Are these men mentally children? Many of them are teenagers. That's why I kept using the word "boy" to describe them. They are still developing an understanding of the world, and people keep leading them astray because they don't want to understand the boy's struggles.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 01:28 AM
9

Being friends with a woman doesn't require the man to be able to discern between shows of interest and shows of politeness. Being friends with a woman doesn't require the man to know how to flirt and create tension. Being friends with a woman doesn't require the man to figure out how a woman wants to be courted. Being friends with a woman barely requires any skills at all compared to dating one. But when the guy tries to develop those skills, and asks the women he's friends with for guidance on …
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/26 10:53 PM
7

Why would a man be asking how to do better with women in his league?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/26 09:31 PM
7

In theory, yes. However, because it's abandoning the notion of the default template, it does require figuring out what roles each party wants to take on, what roles each party wants to avoid, and what roles still need to be filled with someone. Nothing inherently wrong with that, but it does require a lot of communication, usually very early on, that can still be quite stressful and taxing on a burgeoning dynamic, which leads to a pretty high failure rate even in cases where you are totally comp…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/26 09:20 PM
12

You're getting off in the weeds. He wants to know what makes the woman want the man. She doesn't realise he'd struggle with that, and assumes he's asking something else, with answers that don't help him.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/26 09:11 PM
17

Yes, but the boy is trying to find out the mechanisms behind it. What makes the difference between an attractive man and an unattractive man. And girls are telling him to "be nice" and "care about her" and all the things OP is saying women don't tell men lead to attraction, because they don't understand the question.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/26 09:09 PM
7

I'm not talking about cold approaches, where you just randomly go up to a stranger. I just mean initiating the potential relationship. Asking someone out, even if you know them, is still an approach.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/26 08:49 PM
6

Because from his perspective, it's the only thing it could possibly mean. Why would you spend energy seeking things that aren't attractive?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/26 08:35 PM
18

Because it's not about dating. It's about approaching. The very first step in the chain. The one that guys are always struggling with. To the boy, it's unfathomable that a girl wouldn't even consider it a step, because from his perspective, it's 90% of the struggle right there. Imagine struggling to beat the first boss in a video game, but all the guides online were instructions on how to beat the last one, and they didn't tell you which boss they were about, so you threw all your time into the …
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/26 08:34 PM
15

grapple with the notion that being a (genuinely) good guy is a bare minimum prerequisite, And then the harder revelation is that it's not even a bare minimum, as many women will still knowingly go for a guy who doesn't have it. It's completely independent.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/26 08:30 PM
14

Gonna use Wiktionary for this: > what (interrogative) Which thing, event, circumstance, etc.: used in asking for the specification of an identity, quantity, quality, etc. > do A syntactic marker in a question whose main verb is not another auxiliary verb or be > you (indefinite personal pronoun) A dummy pronoun used in certain constructions, usually with verbs of receiving (such as get or find) or sensing (such as see or hear), typically stating the existence or typicality of something. > look f…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/26 08:28 PM
6

Notice how many of the women answering are ignoring the "interpreted as weakness rather than consideration" part, and running with the idea that the man is a coward. Says more than anything they're actually saying.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/26 08:19 PM
17

not asking what they actually want to ask. From his perspective, he is literally, bluntly, as clear as fucking day, asking what he means. Because to any man, "what do you look for in a woman?" means "what makes a woman attractive?"
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/26 08:17 PM
17

In my experience, women assume it's a given that she's attracted to the man in the hypothetical, rather than realising that that might be what the guy who's asking the question is struggling to establish. Like it goes right over a lot of women's heads that that's even a step in the process on his end, because she's never put herself in a man's shoes.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/26 08:16 PM
34

The whole problem is downhill of the fact that the genders don't speak the same language as each other, despite sounding like the same words. Most boys have the experience of asking the women and girls in their life "What do you look for in a man?" From the male perspective, it's obvious that the question means "what makes you attracted to someone" so that's the lens in which he interprets her answers. From the female perspective, the question sounds like "when you meet attractive guys, what do …
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/26 08:07 PM
2

How strong of a negative correlation between the two groups would you need to see in order to concede that this discussion isn't worth the ill will it fosters?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/26 08:04 AM
2

I think she means be the problem in the eyes of those you see as a problem. Which is to say, hold to your values even harder.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/26 01:18 AM
1

Nah, I'd just keep them as friends. I mean even with sex on the table, I don't think a relationship compares to friendship in the current zeitgeist ...
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/26 01:14 AM
-2

I think her body count says more about who she is inside than the way he sticks his tongue out when he ties his shoe says about him ...
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/26 07:42 PM
1

Complicating things is how the Ick is discussed in women's spaces as though all men need to stop doing the things that gave this one woman the ick.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/26 07:40 PM
2

Hypocrisy is a flaw that should be overcome.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/26 07:37 PM
8

Ironically, if men didn't care about pleasing women, claims that men can't do it wouldn't be treated with the same weight. You wouldn't have men defending their sexual prowess from the spurious claims of people they've never met, because men wouldn't care, so people wouldn't spam it like it was the universal counter. Truth is, a lot of men define their self worth off the belief that they please their partner. A lot of the hesitancy that virgin men show is a worry that they won't be good enough f…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/26 08:14 AM
2

Romantic attraction also seems to fluctuate based on hormones, just not as much. The base level of romantic attraction is honestly really similar to platonic attraction, like I find myself wondering why go beyond friends when it's coming up to the day I should get my TRT shot again.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/26 04:29 AM
13

Thanks for taking the time out of your day to pretend to read what I said. I wouldn't want that relationship, either.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/26 02:23 AM
2

We should be asking why are women more likely to initiate divorce. From what I've been seeing by looking at other people, it seems to be a bigger thing than just divorce itself. As a general rule, it seems that even though WLW couples are less likely to initiate than MLM, any other step (calling each other boyfriend/girlfriend/partner, moving in together, marriage, etc) seems to come up faster, while the men seem to want more assurance before they make that leap in particular. Which then also se…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/26 10:14 PM
7

First torsion was misdiagnosed as a bacterial infection, so the usual methods to prevent a second weren't implemented soon enough.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/26 09:56 PM
29

I don't expect shit. But women still expect me to expect those things, so they treat me like I have to pay for all their expectations, because it compensates for the expectations that they expect me to have, even when I tell them outright that I don't. I'm a eunuch. I do not expect her to be a babymaker. In fact, one can argue that her being a baby maker would be a violation of the terms of an exclusive relationship. And since there won't be children, I don't expect a caretaker, either. But I'm …
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/26 09:07 PM
5

He'd pay less, because he'd be using less.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/26 07:26 PM
2

He's also paying for the utilities and food that she's using, if he's the sole income.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/26 07:09 PM
2

As a eunuch, I know full well what impact hormones play in attraction and arousal from first hand experience. As someone who's never been on oestrogen, I can't say what impact it would have in particular. Although, clarification: is this me waking up as a woman tomorrow, or me having always been a woman? If the latter, going by what my biological sisters went for, I'd warrant a physically fit guy with enough fat that I can pretend the muscles aren't what I like about his physical appearance, the…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/26 07:04 PM
-1

Won't deny that, myself.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/26 05:01 AM
3

Feminists support abolishing the draft altogether. Feminists support every political cause. Want to abolish the draft? There's feminists on your side. And others calling you a misogynist. Want to expand the draft? There's feminists on your side. And others calling you a misogynist. Want to keep the draft exactly as it is? There's feminists on your side. And others calling you a misogynist.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/26 03:10 AM
3

Are you just going to keep saying "you lack nuance" like it'll be true eventually? Because, quite frankly, you've been lacking it more than you realise. You still defend the idea that a man is "obsessed" if he brings it up once. Truth is, most men would be fine with being told "no" or "not yet" by a woman, but that isn't the same as being called "obsessed" ... Men respond poorly to women declaring his desire as a moral failing. And whenever men bring up this nuance, this subtlety, they're met wi…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/26 02:09 AM
0

Neurotypical, higher social skills than the average redditor. Generally someone friends come to for emotional guidance. Also I find it rather interesting that anyone who doesn't agree with you is just an outlier.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/26 01:54 AM
11

You can understand why a man wpuld be confused, when he often gets labelled obsessed the very first time he brings it up.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/26 01:22 AM
2

As a man without testicles, that would not be the exception.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/26 12:34 AM
4

Part of this is that the 'husband' work world is increasingly more like the 'wife' work world of the past. That's an angle I haven't seen discussed before. I'd love to hear more about it.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/26 12:07 AM
7

"You're right, my bad. I'll try to do better next time." -- an apology. "I'm sorry! I'm sorry! It's just ... you kept shouting, I didn't know what to do, and and and ..." -- an excuse, not an apology. "Traffic was awful. I'll try to leave sooner from here on out." -- not an apology, but accepting accountability. "Sorry, jeez. You must think I'm the worst girlfriend in the world ..." -- a guilt trip, not an apology.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/26 12:02 AM
3

I don't believe in patriarchy. I don't believe the majority of movements that call themselves "feminist" believe in equality. I don't believe the majority of movements that believe in equality call themselves "feminist" either. I don't base my opinion on feminism off some cringe compilation. I base it off my own experiences with those who use the label, and the literature they cite.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/26 06:50 PM
17

Or it could be that they're dating older men, which is something that women have been doing for centuries.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/26 06:13 PM
17

MeToo itself was fine. MeToo wasn't even a gendered thing; Terry Crews was one of the biggest voices at the start of it. The problem was the ambulance chasers who used it for clout and to start witch hunts, because it provided artificial credibility to spurious claims, many of which were eventually exposed as fake, but not before massive reputational damage had been done.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/26 06:00 PM
5

Feminists say it is.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/26 05:54 PM
–

Trouble is, we don't really live in a society where forgiveness is reliably extant. People still get upset that it happened in the first place, no matter how quickly you recognise it and stop it. Hell, the largest schism ever in the atheism community was kicked off by ... a man asking a woman out in an elevator, being rejected, and accepting it.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/26 05:51 PM
–

Second, that he knows something about himself that makes "she is uncomfortable" a likely outcome if he ever acts like himself. From my experience listening to uncomfortable women online, it really is as simple as being male and visible that seems to upset a lot of them. So ... it's probably that part of himself.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/26 05:47 PM
-1

Something to consider is that the context that women are calling it "telling" is when they ask why men aren't approaching anymore. So it's not the mentally sound women doing it.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/26 08:00 AM
1

No, of course not. It means recognising your emotions, why you're feeling them, and what to do about them. It also means recognising other people's emotions, understanding what's causing them, and understanding what to do about them. And in my experience, women suck at noticing how men do these.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/26 07:42 AM
1

You ever see the studies into gamer rage? Consistently, it was the people who were worse at the game that complained that their team mates were bad at it. They're unable to see what their team mates are doing because they barely have the bandwidth to handle themselves. Similarly, most people who complain that men have no emotional intelligence always manage to out themselves as being completely clueless about what men in their lives are doing to emotionally hold together the situation. For examp…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/26 07:31 AM
4

Men, have you considered committing fewer crimes? Have and do! Rape per capita has been on a downward trajectory in the US since the early 70s. Unfortunately, population is rising faster, so the gross rate is going up, which means there'll be no shortage of horrifying stories for the true crime podcasts.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/26 04:35 AM
5

but that probably won’t happen because people are either lazy or dead tired from working just to pay the bills. Don't forget poor!
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/26 04:26 AM
3

Emotional intelligence has never been a feminine trait.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/26 04:19 AM
9

I am at a complete loss for what you're talking about.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/26 10:07 PM
–

Do you have any tools in your rhetorical arsenal other than shame?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/26 09:55 PM
1

If someone claims that it's entirely about opportunity, they believe that the will is always there.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/26 09:52 PM
2

Any fashion choice relating to "confidence" revolves around being noticed, or not being noticed, both of which are by the people you're attracted to.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/26 07:10 PM
–

They outsourced because immigrants will work for less. There was no shortage of labour. Only shortage of budget.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/26 11:34 PM
3

I didn't say sex. But physical intimacy definitely gets bundled with sex, in my experience. If she doesn't want to fuck, she won't want to kiss, and she won't want to cuddle.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/26 11:33 PM
–

The men who are not making much money are the ones who complain that life is unfair. Statements that think they're saying something, but aren't. Why would someone who has the upper hand complain about a rigged system?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/26 11:13 PM
3

Unfortunately, leaving is very expensive.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/26 11:10 PM
0

Unfortunately, as a man, the only things I can get from a relationship with a woman that I can't get from a good friendship with the same woman is physical intimacy. I don't like that it's this way, but it's thus far the only thing that can make a relationship the better deal. So without physical intimacy, without being able to snuggle on the couch after a long day, without spooning in bed over the winter, without a kiss goodbye before one of us leaves for work ... we're better off as room mates…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/26 11:09 PM
1

Sexual compatibility can change as women get older. Many reports of women hitting perimenopause or menopause and suddenly their libido skyrockets, or plummets, or even flips.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/26 10:11 PM
1

People are only really bound by their own conscience Also the law, in the event of marriage / common law marriage.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/26 09:34 PM
4

Then I guess the lesson is to not get married.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/26 09:33 PM
6

We weren't raised to learn anything about this, how to approach in a sensible manner. You know, I wouldn't say boys are, either. People just try to shame them with "you approach or you die alone" ... and unlike girls, they have reason to believe it.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/26 07:56 PM
3

I think what she's saying is that pattern recognition isn't hate.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/26 07:33 PM
3

The times I've been approached have always been way too cold. Like they ask me out before I've gotten a word in. I'd much rather just talk for a while, get to know each other a little bit through conversation, warm up to one another and see whether or not there's anything to go off, so we can at least pretend she's attracted to something about me that isn't surface level.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/26 06:20 PM
8

This wave function is easy to collapse: She still neds to be attracted to you. If you're not attractive, knowing her better won't save you. If you are attractive, but have no social proof, you're too dangerous to date. If you are attractive, and you've spent time together and she's seen your social proof, you're safe to date.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/26 06:16 PM
–

Or he's so undesirable that the only people who say yes are doing it for the food.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/26 06:07 PM
–

Watch as other women in this very sub deny the existence of OP next time a man suggests that women aren't actually into men, and gaslight him into thinking only men are saying that.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/26 08:43 AM
–

It’s a result of society advancing Source? No really. Do we know it's a result of society advancing, and not something seriously wrong going on? 80% of men. A full 40% of the national population. Get ready for population collapse, or a lot larger family gatherings.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/26 07:21 AM
–

You have a point when people talk about the mean. But even looking at the other averages? The median? The mode? You can get major discrepancies with very little effort.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/26 07:19 AM
1

Society expects you to listen to your parents and your teachers. Boys parents tell him to get in the shower, he resists to the best of his abilities. Teacher lectures him about the health problems, the social fallout, etc, and he rolls his eyes, ignoring it. One girl sniffs before rejecting him, and he's researching the best brands of soap. Is this social expectation, or is it a desire to be desired by women?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/26 04:34 AM
2

If you're only generous after someone is generous to you then you aren't really generous. Its transactional generousity. Men are generous without women being generous first. Hot take: "transactional" isn't a four letter word. And if we take a step outside the Western Traditional Values paradigm, we can see it. For instance, Maori culture. The main way that mana (honour, status) was created was through the process of utu, which is often translated as "revenge" but is more accurate to translate as…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/26 04:20 AM
9

The difference is, society considers him not liking her hair change and her not liking his hair change to both be his problem.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/26 11:08 PM
5

It's closer to showing up with a giant dragon tattooed across your cheek than it is to getting a trim. Wild take.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/26 10:06 PM
1

"Screeching in" is an initiation thing in Newfoundland, where they make foreigners who are integrating into the community kiss a cod. My point is, it doesn't matter how general or specific the fear is; fear is still the reason they're not doing the thing.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/26 08:41 PM
6

If you did it publically in daylight in a non threatening way with non aggressive body language, why would women feel uncomfortable? If you're explicitly grateful for the attention a woman gives you and outwardly express excitement at the prospect of a date, why would women feel rejected? You can neither control nor predict how a person will interpret you.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/26 08:38 PM
1

It's always been less creepy than when women have hit on me, I'll say that much.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/26 08:36 PM
1

It's not even the ego. It's the superego. It's his sense of moral standards and proper behaviours. It's his fucking honour that's been hijacked by a social paradigm that no longer values men's efforts to build the world.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/26 08:31 PM
3

Whether a man is scared of fish or scared of touching them, he still won't want to get screeched in.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/26 08:27 PM
2

I've been saying for a while that "no" is the second best thing she can say. If it's not an enthusiastic yes, or a clear no, treat it as a no for your own peace of mind, and get out of there.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/26 08:25 PM
5

These are the only women saying yes to dates with these men.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/26 07:20 PM
4

Tuned out, on their phone half the time, single word responses, no eye contact. Basically just using the guy for a meal. For a lot of guys, that's their primary experience with dates.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/26 07:04 PM
6

The women aren't being fun. That's the quiet part.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/26 06:48 PM
1

Not in the circles you travel, at least.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/26 06:27 PM
1

If this was anything close to true, why is it that the only way to get a teenaged boy to shower is to show him that women don't like the stink?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/26 06:15 PM
2

Funnily enough, the only times I've seen a woman approach a guy, it's been ice cold on his end. Like, they've never spoken, and don't even know each other's names, but she's been watching him and building up the courage for months. From my experience, it feels like women don't approach people they know nearly as often as people they don't, but still want men to get to know them before approaching.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/26 06:10 PM
1

There's a lot of men staying single, too. And a lot of unpleasant women throwing pity parties for themselves over it, too.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/26 06:07 PM
0

Statistically, it takes a man 2000 attempts to get a date. He will be accused of being a creep and a pervert way more often than he will be seen as worth giving a chance. This is a cumulative poison that erodes self esteem and confidence.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/26 06:05 PM
1

They don't ask for anything. They get mad when the man gets it wrong, and they get mad when he doesn't so it right. And are confused by his trained apathy afterwards.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/26 06:01 PM
5

Because that's the best it's ever been for them. Their baseline is even worse.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/26 09:32 AM
0

It's not me meeting them. Like I said elsewhere in the thread, I'm out of the dating game. But I know many people from many walks of life, and I see the trends underpinning it all. And many people have just acclimated to being treated like the shit under other people's shoe, to the point that they have no idea that's not normal. To use a non-dating example of the phenomenon: my sister has EDS. It went undiagnosed until she was nearly 30, because she had never been on morphine before that and had…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/26 08:48 AM
8

Reference frames. For these guys, that's still the closest they've gotten. As far as they know, that's just what a woman is like when she's interested.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/26 08:37 AM
14

Oh, come off it. It's a chore when you're trying to get a connection with someone, but even a modicum of conversation is like squeezing blood from a stone, even on the one who's easiest to talk to so far. It doesn't have to be that the guy doesn't see women as people. It can also be that the man isn't a person to the women.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/26 08:33 AM
3

I know what you're trying to say, but it doesn't actually answer the question that was asked; only the one in your head. Take a second and reread the conversation.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/26 08:31 AM
17

I think a big part of the issue is that most people don't agree on what flirting even is. Dr Kanojia from Healthy Gamer had a video where he and his wife were reacting to PUA posts, and one of the bits of advice they disagreed on was "don't flirt." His wife said you absolutely have to flirt. He said he didn't flirt with her and they got together. She insisted he flirted with her. He said that all he said when they first met was "Oh. You're here." She insisted that was flirting. You look at how a…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/26 08:29 AM
19

but dating is supposed to be enjoyable And since it wasn't, I stopped. It's not a bore to hang out with people and get to know them, mate. Agreed, but that doesn't require you to date them. It's not a chore to flirt Well it sure as shit isn't fun for me, unless both parties know it's a joke. The whole thing is intentional miscommunication to generate uncertainty. I object on a moral level.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/26 08:15 AM
6

I think dead bedrooms are caused because men and women have different sex drives, on average. Someone pull up the stats on "lesbian bed death" ...
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/26 07:39 AM
1

The reason why men are the overwhelmingly majority of clients for prostitutes is because the average woman can get sex quite easily while the average man cannot. Doesn't this just kick the can down the road? Why is it easier for women to get?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/26 06:29 AM
3

Also, I can recognize that a man is attractive or sexy even and that still doesn't mean I'd want to ever have sex with him. 99% of the time some twitter user is calling a famous actress that everyone calls beautiful "mid", I assume this is what's going on in his head.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/26 06:28 AM
-2

There's no answer that a man can give that isn't wrong. So I'd rather just die alone.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/26 02:31 AM
8

They're so starved, that they just want someone. Like that bit from the Hateful Eight, where Samuel L Jackson's character is talking about a confederate soldier he made march naked in the snow. At first, he was begging to be let go. By the end, he was just begging for a blanket.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/26 02:30 AM
2

Oh god, no, not an insecure one. That's where you get the shit-testing, the emotional breakdowns over only being somewhat enthusiastically complimenting her, and a phone that blows up with messages because you're spending time with a friend.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/26 02:29 AM
2

People don't go to bars to meet people, anymore. They go with friends they want to talk with in a neutral space.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/08/26 06:41 PM
1

Big reason I as a man don't go to any of the gyms near me is that they're all co-ed, and women are in a sort of hypervigilance about creeps. Can't stare off into space without risking someone thinking I'm staring at her, so I can't get in the mental rhythm for excercise unless I'm at home. I miss male-only gyms being legal.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/08/26 06:39 PM
11

"When I called you the N word, I didn't mean it in a racist way ..." Yeah, no. Ironic bigotry is still bigotry. Whether or not they hate men, they can't think highly of them if they think it's okay to say the shit they do online.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/08/26 09:34 AM
1

If it were simple evolution, why is it so easy to bypass? I'm able to get intimacy from platonic connection just fine, as a man.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/08/26 09:33 AM
3

I mean, yeah. I became comfortable being single, and they have no power over me whatsoever. I don't really want for anything. No bargaining chips. Nothing can be brought to the negotiation table. So I don't date. At all.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/08/26 09:30 AM
–

Maybe it's the women who all misunderstood. Maybe they're the ones who couldn't figure out that our problem wasn't something that "being kind" would fix, so telling us "be kind" was the wrong thing to say. Maybe if they rubbed two braincells together they'd realise where the actual problem was, and given advice that works. Maybe if they actually acted like adults and communicated, there'd be more good men out there.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/08/26 09:26 AM
4

Not gonna tell him what that is though, are you?
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/26 09:14 PM
2

Well whether or not you want to believe it, they did. And they said it to a lot of other boys, too.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/26 09:12 PM
3

They explicitly said "Women don't care about your looks. If you want a woman to fall for you, just be kind." As for asking women who were attracted to me ... there weren't any. Because I wasn't attractive. That's why I needed to know what would make me attractive. And why them lying about it only screwed me over more.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/26 09:06 PM
3

Every single woman I was vulnerable with in my youth - my mother, my sisters, my teachers, my friends, my crushes - said that kindness is the way to a woman's heart, that kindness is what builds attraction, that kindness is what they look for. Kindness, no matter how authentic, accomplished nothing. It was always "that's the bare minimum" ... and they dated unkind people anyway, so it wasn't even a minimum requirement; it was a nice accessory that was entirely independent to attraction. What did…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/26 08:57 PM
1

Of course it won't bring change. It's an argument against change, because they feel that the change that would be brought about by changing the way you want things to change would be bad.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/26 08:45 PM
2

"These kids are bullying my son." "Which one's the bully?" "All of them." "So there's no bully?!"
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/26 08:39 PM
–

Are you fucking for real, here? I am the one saying it's not guaranteed. I am explaining to you that women can be uninterested in men for reasons that aren't a moral failing on his part. You are the one saying he must not be a good person if he's unable to get a date. You are the one attacking men for trying to figure out how to better themselves for the sake of women. You can't hear a word I'm saying because you have someone else in your head you want to fight against. We know you don't choose …
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/26 08:36 PM
6

Men are welcome to discuss a woman's character. But if they are misogynistic about it, that will be called out. In my experience, and in the experience of many, misogyny is when a woman didn't like something. Doesn't matter how you say it, why you say it, or what you say. If she's offended, you're a misogynist. So most men stop talking. Anyways.... I'm glad we cleared up that there's nowhere in society actually gaslighting young boys. Do you want an itemized list of every woman who's talked to m…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/26 08:32 PM
10

A man can be a good person, brush his teeth, wash his ass, comb his hair, ask you about your interests, respect you, and all the other things, and that still won't make him attractive. Assuming not doing those things is the only reason a man wouldn't be attractive is not helping anyone.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/26 08:18 PM
5

"Seem" is part of the problem. Men care roughly as much as women do, in truth. But men aren't exactly welcome to discuss matters of a woman's character, because it so quickly gets labelled misogynistic. So they stop arguments by keeping their mouths shut, so women think men don't care, so women think men only care about looks, so they tell men that women don't care as much (believing it to be true), so men (believing women are honest) assume women don't care much, so they don't put in as much ef…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/26 07:58 PM
10

And this is why men stop listening to women over time. You fundamentally can't relate to them, and assume all their problems are downstream of moral failings. You can't comprehend that people are not dealt the same hand. You jist keep regurgitating the same talking point of "if you aren't getting attention, you must be a sexist." And the fact that "attractive" is talking about the topic holistically, including non-physical aspects, is entirely lost on you, so you submit your insight argumentativ…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/26 07:50 PM
6

So you've never heard people trying to educate guys, saying that women don't care about looks, that they're not shallow like men?
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/26 07:35 PM
4

Usually, it's authority figures in the boys' life, as well as the girls he grows up with. General media depictions also play a role in it.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/26 07:29 PM
8

Why do men think they’ll unlock some code to dating/sex if they could just figure out attraction Because being attractive to someone is the first hurdle, and the one they're repeatedly failing at? They need something to get their foot in the door. They want to believe they have something to offer if they were just given a chance.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/26 07:27 PM
1

The longer you spend in the linguistics space, the more tiring that fight becomes, until you realise you're just trying to punch a waterfall into submission and choose to fight more important battles.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/26 06:12 PM
1

The fuck is bro yapping about.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/26 05:17 PM
1

Just because the word's been around a while, doesn't mean it isn't a buzzword. A word can be taken, twisted, and bent into a cudgel that only bears a passing similarity to what it once was. "Incel" was coined to refer to someone who was celibate but not by choice. Now it's a word for a hateful and contemptible person who is repulsed by (and repulses) the opposite sex. "Troll" was a word for someone who would set bait that only the newbies would fall for, as a way to expose their unfamiliarity wi…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/26 05:14 PM
3

So ... you want someone who will take the lion's share of responsibility to communicate.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/26 05:07 PM
2

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning. Terry Pratchett
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/26 05:03 PM
2

I don't think we have a responsibility to be interesting to other people. Just see if we are. If we're not, they'll choose to make it clear, and we both go our separate ways. But it's a two-way street. They have to choose to make it clear that they have no interest in spending time with me, or we'll waste each other's time. Communication is what we have the responsibility to do.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/26 09:41 PM
–

You are the reason society is collapsing.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/26 09:25 PM
4

Survivorship bias in play. If he was boring, but did try to befriend women, you'd forget he existed long before any attempt to date you would happen, so that corner of the Punnett square looks empty, making you think "boring" is only a problem of guys who aren't trying to be your friend first.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/26 09:22 PM
7

Many dating apps literally have a field to enter your height, and a filter to remove shorties fron your queue. I'm not a minor, but I was one once, and the past affects the present.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/26 08:10 PM
6

It's a product of dating apps, where your profile won't even be seen in the first place if you're not above the Threshold. Or girls in high school using height as an excuse for why they're not attracted to you because it's something you can't change and they don't want you to abandon parts of yourself just to keep pestering them.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/26 07:33 PM
0

"No snowflake blames itself for the avalanche" or something or another.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/26 08:24 AM
4

Yeah, as a eunuch, I've come to really appreciate just how much of the human experience is endocrinological ...
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/26 06:39 AM
2

You mean the absence of opposition? This isn't a negative right. The concept of a "negative right" doesn't exist. What the hell is a "negative right"? OP briefly touched on the distinction. It's one of them PolSci terms that makes perfect sense to people with overpriced degrees but never trickles down into the public consciousness because they gave them dumb names that only make sense if you follow a specific theory. Basically, you know the whole thing of "A right to speak your mind isn't a righ…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/26 03:46 AM
2

It's not about being horny. It's about basic communication.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/26 01:33 AM
6

Because those fake women are more willing to actually make a move on those guys, fake as it may be.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/26 01:20 AM
7

> "I don't want to make women uncomfortable, so I don't make a move on them unless they've given me some kind of sign that they're receptive to such an advance." > "You just want women to be super horny and obsessed!" Your shoulder. There's some kind of chip on it.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/26 12:54 AM
18

Im agreeing that the guys who swear they’re the sweet meek loving guys….dont want the sweet meek girls who care about morals and value. No, they do. But those good girls aren't giving the guys any signs to work with, so the guys are respecting her by not moving in on her.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/26 12:08 AM
1

Only if you're desperate. Get in the habit of wanting to talk to people as part of normal community behaviour.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/26 08:14 PM
3

Woman A may be nervous around people she likes, or she may not like strangers, or she may not like me. Woman B may be a people pleaser when she's uncomfortable, or she might be extra friendly as a rule, or she may like me.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/26 07:59 PM
1

Yeah, the same woman who comments "cubing is so hot 😍" on a tik tok of a cute guy in a nice shirt solving a Rubik's cube will like a tik tok that says "new ick unlocked: speed cubing events" ... Granted, there's men who are much the same, saying "I go absolutely feral when I see redheads" only to wince when the ginger woman seems into him. I think a lot of people just ... don't think when they speak.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/26 07:55 PM
0

I appreciate the beauty more when I measure the marigolds, and I'd rather die alone than be with a woman who can't understand that about me.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/26 07:48 PM
6

The Litmus test was carefully developed specifically so you can get accurate results. Comparing what you're talking about to the Litmus test does a disservice to all involved.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/26 07:44 PM
1

Cold approaching is specifically an attempt at getting a date out of a stranger, I thought. Just chatting with strangers is totally different.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/26 07:40 PM
10

Well, yeah. Letting you know that it wasn't what OP was looking for might inspire you to reconsider the question.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/26 02:23 AM
2

Have you ever considered the possibility that you bring out the worst in people? That the reason you find yourself surrounded by men who are "no good" might be that they can't afford to show you their good side, because they don't want to reward your negative attitude?
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/26 01:58 AM
6

While true, it's not really a statement that adds to the conversation.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/26 01:48 AM
2

If that's true, she's not very literate. The men in "these men" weren't the bad men.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/26 01:43 AM
2

I am highlighting how your perspective and lack of trust in other people is creating a prison around yourself that you don't need to be in, and the most sinister part of its design is that anyone who doesn't serve as a jailer by validating it is seen as a threat to your own safety.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/26 01:42 AM
2

The bad man would see it as a reward, and the good man can see that he would. If you're training a dog, and you say you'll give it a reward, and hand it a pig's ear, you're not saying you would consider a pig's ear a reward for yourself.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/26 01:39 AM
4

Because your check swab samples are collected at home and not verified by an independent witness, they cannot be used in New Zealand Family Court or other legal proceedings.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/26 01:33 AM
4

A rude kindness beats a polite cruelty every time.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/26 01:32 AM
5

Convenient that your definition of good includes "kowtows to shame the moment I'm uncomfy."
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/26 01:26 AM
8

It's illegal to get a child a DNA test in NZ without consent of all guardians. In most other places, it still requires at least one guardian to consent. If you're counting yourself as a guardian, many places will say that it no longer matters if the child is yours, because you already accepted the role of a guardian. Other places still offer no legal weight to any "peace of mind test", requiring a whole lot of legal rigmarole for a court-recognised DNA test to stand, which includes pleading your…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/26 01:24 AM
8

If we can't even use the word "reward" in a psychological context because it upsets your Women's Studies degree, then there's no room for discussion to ever happen and the world will continue to become a worse place for everyone.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/26 01:18 AM
15

Because... you only feel personally attacked if some of those complaints apply to you deep down. I fundamentally disagree with the notion of "hit dogs holler" as used like this. When you show vulnerability to someone and choose to be kind to them, but they recoil like they're under threat, because your show of kindness reads to them as danger, it's entirely reasonable to be hurt. To feel like you're judged and will never be given the chance to prove you're not a threat. It's the most powerful fo…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/26 01:15 AM
11

It's illegal in many places. It also requires the baby to already be born, and she'll know something's up the moment he doesn't put his name on the birth certificate.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/26 12:21 AM
10

That's the thing. These men don't see you as a fuck trophy, either. They're just confused by the fact that men and women don't speak the same language.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/26 12:18 AM
0

I knew it was a thread from you based on the title. Honestly, even though I disagree with her, this was one of her more reasonable thread ideas.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/26 11:23 PM
45

They complain about all men, for the actions of the bad men. Then the men who wouldn't do what the bad men do are confused, say "I would never do that. Why would you go for a man that would?" And the woman hears "I would never do that. Where's my parade?"
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/26 11:21 PM
19

The reason this conversation goes right over the heads of the men you're talking about is because they're trying to have a totally different conversation to the one you think they're having. You think it's "I'm not a bad guy, why am I not being rewarded?" They're trying to have "I'm not a bad guy, but I see a lot of bad guys get rewarded. What the hell kind of redeeming qualities could they possibly have to justify being chosen over someone who isn't a piece of shit?" You're talking about women …
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/26 11:20 PM
6

That trend shifts by age and gender: among singles under 40, men were more likely than women to say they’re not interested in dating, at 39% compared to 30% — a reversal of older age groups, where women were more likely to opt out. Red pill's "The Wall" talking point taking quite a hit with this one.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/26 10:19 PM
1

And yet many people I've met aren't even worth that.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/26 10:16 PM
1

Good friendships require very little effort, this is true. And yet.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/26 10:12 PM
1

Doesn't even have to be sex. Most women I've met aren't even worth the effort it takes to have them as a friend.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/26 10:03 PM
1

And the reward ... isn't worth the effort that it takes.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/26 09:34 PM
1

And my point is that what counts as an action that doesn't make any sense is different based on circumstances of the person doing it. For many people, dating falls into it. For many people, they won't get out anything close to what they put in.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/26 09:28 PM
1

Okay Prometheus. Are there actions that you would never take because you know that the effort involved wouldn't be worthwhile? Digging up your entire back yard with chopsticks, perhaps?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/26 09:18 PM
1

I have never seen someone bend over this far backwards to avoid understanding the concept of some things being more effort than they're worth.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/26 09:03 PM
-1

Think net, not gross. If you have to spend $1.25 to make $1, you were better off not doing anything.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/26 07:09 PM
1

Indeed it does! I'm giving the term for it in hopes that people register that it's a much larger phenomenon, and that this question isn't a gotcha.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/26 06:28 PM
1

And here we see a direct confrontation with Sitch's law: the majority of arguments are about definitions, whether the participants realise it or not.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/26 06:23 PM
–

The idea of going to an event for shovelling pig shit with the fellas just so we can be free to be ourselves and open up without ridicule is an amusing one, I'll give you that.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/26 01:00 AM
1

And that's the job of arguments that aren't the birth rate.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/26 09:36 PM
8

Even that's a bad use of the topic. Because there's a lot of sperm already donated. Any woman who wants to raise a kid on her own only has her biology and budget in her way. The only value that comes from bringing up the birth rate is to say "We have, over 4 billion years, selected to become organisms that want to pass on their genes. If we're dropping below replacement rates, that means something's gone seriously wrong to negate the most primal instinct of organic life. We need to address what'…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/26 09:19 PM
2

From the Greek ἕτερος meaning "different" and Latin sexus meaning "division, gender". Also the Latin -ālis that turns a noun into an adjective, of course. So it would be "I am attracted to people, but not my gender" no?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/26 09:14 PM
1

When they do that, they get called misogynists for "hating" the woman instead of the bad boy.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/26 07:56 PM
–

What doesn't help is that some assets aren't allowed to be non-joint assets in marriage. Even decades on, my mum's still bitter that her former sister-in-law got the family home in the divorce because houses are joint automatically.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/26 06:19 PM
4

How it is different from men's consumption of porn? More story to provide context for why there's fucking involved.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/26 08:50 AM
1

More or less exactly how I see it, and have been trying to explain it, for a good long while, now.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/26 08:29 AM
15

In all honesty, I think it's that the damage we give boys growing up errs towards dismissive-avoidant attachment rather than anxious. Maybe there's an endocrinological aspect to it, too.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/26 08:10 AM
3

I'd very much like to see a more rigorous follow-up to that voice study, because the idea that bi men sound "straighter" than straight men is hilarious.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/26 08:05 AM
9

I have never seen any of the men OP is talking about idealise the bad boys, though?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/26 05:52 AM
2

Morning Glory Milking Farm. ... Oh yeah, the male romantic lead is a minotaur. Forgot to mention that part.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/26 05:05 AM
1

Come on, this is reddit; you're allowed to say the fuck word.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/26 04:43 AM
43

Alternatively: They see women they care about go after the most obviously bad men, without any care for their warnings. They see these women get hurt by these bad men, sometimes in ways that don't heal. And then they see these women they care about talk about how much men suck. They see the whole loop. They want to break it.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/26 03:10 AM
3

Honestly, befriending a lot of women killed a lot of my desire to date one. Seeing how women think convinced me that they don't really experience love like I'd need from someone to feel happy in a relationship, considering how much effort it takes to maintain one. But friendships are so easy to keep up that the benefits are basically free, and what you do put into a friendship will actually be appreciated, instead of hit with the "as you should" ...
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/26 01:21 AM
1

I don’t have much experience with programs like these marketed to men but I doubt they are any better. I don't date, so I don't have "systems" of my own for this, but I pay attention to a lot of places where people do talk about dating (eg here) and one of the more common strategies I've seen suggested for men was "paint the target where the arrow lands." Send out a million likes. No aim, no strategy, just fire at everyone. Find the ones that like you back. Figure out which of those could be goo…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/26 12:30 AM
–

There’s scary statistics online that say women who get breast implants and nose jobs have like a 75% chance of divorcing their man. Yes, and shark attacks go up alongside ice cream sales. A leading influence in whether or not someone goes for cosmetic surgery is anxiety about their self-worth. This is also something that drives a lot of divorces. It's no surprise that there's a lot of overlap.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/26 10:15 PM
3

And what, pray tell, didn't work about it? What threshold did not being sexist fail to meet in regards to improving your chances of finding a good man?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/26 09:25 PM
1

In a manner that actual men can't provide.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/26 09:20 PM
2

The top selling romance novel of recent years was about a woman who became a prostitute to avoid moving in with her parents managing to turn one of her clients into a sugar daddy. And that's not even getting into the non-human aspects, like the forearm-sized dick ...
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/26 09:14 PM
3

Yet you pick up any one of those books and you quickly realise that is not a man she's wanting to be courted by ...
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/26 09:09 PM
3

Let's be real, her attitude drives away the men that don't hate her.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/26 08:53 PM
5

Elliot wasn't even rejected. Elliot stood around, waiting for a woman to approach him.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/26 08:51 PM
–

Why men are so fixated on cold approaches? Because women also shame men for approaching women they know, and call it "manipulative" and "rapey" ...
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/26 08:50 PM
–

We're taught these things while we're still young enough to be punished for stepping out of line.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/26 08:49 PM
–

We used to have proverbial handkerchiefs to drop, but one by one, they were declared false signs, and men were called bad for taking them. Don't call it a grave. This is the future your spinster aunts chose for you.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/26 08:47 PM
1

You stop framing it as a group responsibility and start framing it as a lived experience. Instead of "I agree, men suck." it's "I've had to deal with a lot of bad men, myself." Instead of "men don't want love, they're just looking for sex." it's "I haven't had much luck finding a man who's dating seriously." Instead of "men are cheap." it's "For once, I'd like a man to say 'Don't worry, I've got the bill. It's just a meal.' ..."
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/26 08:44 PM
–

Maybe they deny it because the men they wanted to stop are still doing it, since they don't take no for an answer? And all the decent men listened. Whoops.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/26 08:34 PM
1

Valueable ... to whom?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/26 08:28 PM
0

Those complaints more often than not are also attempts to talk. Gee, I wonder why they don't work. If a man goes "Bitches ain't shit but hoes and tricks" are you going to think "Wow, I can fix him"?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/26 08:22 PM
6

But they never express it. They never actually demonstrate anything to suggest they genuinely want a man. They just complain about men. And the men who listen to women hear it, while the men who don't listen to women don't. So the men who listen to women give women what they ask for, and leave them alone, while the men who don't care continue to be shit because they don't care. If women normalized expressing desire for men in a positive way, they might actually find men stepping up, rather than …
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/26 07:57 PM
6

I never see women actually express this alleged desire as anything other than a way to complain about men.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/26 07:30 PM
2

There's no point in having someone in your life unless you make each other's lives better. If I still have to handle everything alone, only showing her my battle scars afterward and never an open wound, she's not even a friend. She'd be of no use but a hole to fuck. And I'm not building anything off a foundation like that. Am I dating so a woman can solve my issues? No. I'm not dating at all, because a relationship with a woman solves nothing.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/26 05:51 PM
0

If someone costs more to keep in my life than they give back, I excise them.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/26 05:40 PM
2

Useful as an addition to your life. A relationship needs to be worthwhile for both parties, otherwise someone's getting screwed. So what does this woman provide to a man who has already solved all his problems? What is the point of a relationship?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/26 09:44 AM
5

At which point, she's still not very useful, is she?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/26 09:39 AM
-1

A recognition that their actions have upset someone they care about, and a desire to fix it? Is that not what shame is?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/26 09:31 AM
11

Once you've done all that, though ... the relationship feels kinda pointless. Like if you still have to suck in your gut around your partner, you're better off without one.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/26 09:30 AM
-1

Kind of weird to asser that only humans feel shame, when shame is the only reason you can successfully house-train a dog ...
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/26 09:27 AM
3

It's really hard to organize a play date as a kid when you don't see them around, and you can't just head over to their house because the streets of a city aren't safe for a child.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/26 07:25 AM
4

Grew up in a big city. The zoning for primary schools, intermediate schools, and high schools were not matching. People would spend six years getting to know each other only to wind up going to different intermediates and having to build all new friend circles for two years before it would be ripped up for high school again, and this time with hormones involved. Really instilled a sense of impermanence to friendship and connection.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/26 07:12 AM
–

And also there'd be more pressure on everyone else to do it too, because the 5'11" guy looks 5'7" without them ...
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/26 06:08 AM
–

I mean ... a lot of men also want women to just "naturally" have the qualities most beauty products are compensating for. It's just that we tell these men to get over themselves.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/26 06:03 AM
2

There also didn't need to be an AWDTSG page for your city to background check the guy on the apps, because you would be talking to someone who knew both of you. People had reputations precede them in this way.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/26 12:39 AM
7

First of all, if offline dating was going well, no one would be doing online. I think online dating was the wrong solution to a greater problem: third spaces are too expensive.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/26 12:37 AM
1

Maybe the problem isn't men not getting "inherent value" (whatever thst means). Maybe the problem is women getting it.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/07/26 07:54 PM
6

Yeah, I'm not a fan of OP implying men don't care about personality, either.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/07/26 07:09 PM
2

Extrapolate. If you like cooking, but washing dishes stresses you out, you'd rather date someone who hates cooking but doesn't mind washing dishes. If you are great with yard work but clueless about laundry, a partner who's great with fabrics but doesn't get their hands dirty is a good fit. If you can solve their needs and they can solve yours, you're both getting out more than you're putting in thanks to a favourable exchange rate on services. You said you couldn't understand how people could b…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/07/26 06:44 PM
2

The one who likes drums has complimentary values.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/07/26 06:38 PM
2

Imagine a fried chicken place opens up. $5 for 5 wings, $5 for 4 drums, or $8 for 5 wings and 4 drums. Imagine you like wings. Would you rather split that last box with someone else who likes wings, someone who likes drums, or a vegan?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/07/26 06:29 PM
1

It's not the passive voice. Just ambiguous grammar.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/07/26 03:56 AM
1

Trust me, there are way more slurs for women who care about men than for men that care about men.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/07/26 03:31 AM
3

The one thing I think hearing this is "cute sentiment, but is she saying anything?" Loving ... to whom? What does it mean to be loved "for simply being"? Simply being gives them value to whom? It's buzzwords. Marketing speak. Gibberish with socially correct characteristics. Woo. Whether you're a man, a woman, or non-binary, you will never be valued by anyone you don't provide value to. Nor should you be. e: wrong pronoun.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/07/26 03:30 AM
2

And being told that that's all they want again and again grinds away at their self-worth, and their belief that men and women can ever get along.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/07/26 02:15 AM
2

Nevertheless, the impact your words have on people are different. It would behove you to consider that, if it's really no difference on your end.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/07/26 12:46 AM
2

If sex was all I got, I wouldn't be happy, either.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/07/26 12:35 AM
1

Funnily enough, women make up a lot of the spine of the men's rights movement at this stage, at least when you look at the actual political pushes. Whenever there's a campaign to reform family court policies, or the like, it's the women in the MRA spaces that organize people to call their senators, state representatives, or congressmen.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/07/26 11:50 PM
1

The same feminists who now won't raise a finger to even so much as aknowledge that men deserve rights too. More complicated than that when you view it on an individual basis. The woman usually credited with establishing the first women's shelter in the US also fought to establish a men's shelter after seeing how many of the abuse cases were reciprocal. It sadly never managed to get off the ground, but the intent and effort on her part were not to blame.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/07/26 11:43 PM
2

Just because sex is the only thing you can think of to satisfy them, doesn't mean it's the only thing. I'm in my thirties. A woman holding my hand still melts my heart like I was a teenager again. A woman smiling, and looking me in the eye, and feeling like I'm the one person in the world she wants to see right now. A woman sitting on my lap and leaning back, feeling how comfortable she is snuggling up to me. A woman wrapping an arm around my waist as we walk together. These aren't sexual. They'…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/07/26 11:39 PM
2

THEY AREN'T TALKING ABOUT SEX. THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT THEIR EMOTIONS.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/07/26 11:28 PM
3

There's a difference between platonic and romantic emotions. Stop trying to force sex into the equation where it doesn't belong. You're like a dog with a bone.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/07/26 11:25 PM
2

It's not even about sex, though. It pops up when a friendship gets too close because it's about emotional connection, feeling like you've finally found someone you can rely on as a partner. And knowing that's not what they want is what makes it hurt so much to be around them. Sex isn't part of that equation. If it was, he would have been into her from the jump.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/07/26 11:17 PM
1

Considering 1st dates are way more common than 2nd dates, wouldn't that just lead to men still paying for dates as the standard?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/07/26 10:55 PM
3

Truthfully, the friendship was dead the moment he caught feelings. Doesn't matter if he confesses or not. He's dying, every second he keeps it going.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/07/26 10:35 PM
2

Stats I've been hearing is that it takes on average just under two years after meeting for people who successfully move from friends to partners to start dating.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/07/26 10:25 PM
1

Nor should it go back. How things were before was clearly unstable; it's why feelings developed in the first place. Takes a very specific kind of immaturity to think it'll go well this time after changing none of the starting variables.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/07/26 10:23 PM
–

Thanks.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/07/26 09:56 PM
–

I don't see the post you're talking about, so I'm curious: where was this survey conducted, how did they select for participants, and what did they classify as coercive?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/07/26 09:46 PM
3

Why are they putting other mens mentalities over their own in the first place? Because their own mentality isn't getting results. If it was, they wouldn't.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/07/26 09:05 PM
3

Therein lies the big trap for general advice on the internet. "Head south in the winter to avoid the snow" only works in the northern hemisphere. Also annoyingly, the advice to stand up for yourself is like catnip for those who could honestly do with some humbling, and the advice to check yourself before you wreck yourself is quickly absorbed by those who worry enough already.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/07/26 09:04 PM
1

I can also understand why someone would be put off by being accused of having no emotional intelligence for wanting to use the much more reliable method of communicating over taking vague hints and extrapolating. A certain level of emotional intelligence is expected.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/07/26 08:57 PM
3

Not even just that but a lot of women tend to virtue signal and stick to saying things that sound more politically correct and avoid saying things that could make them sound superficial. It's not even a woman behaviour; it's a high-agreeableness behaviour. Women just trend higher on that than men in aggregate. We've seen studies on it. Put a camera in someone's face and ask them how they like their coffee, and you'll get a lot of answers that say a rich dark roast. Do an anonymous survey and mos…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/07/26 08:55 PM
10

I've used a video game metaphor a few times for it. If you're struggling on one boss, so you go online to find out how to get past them, and all the advice is "Yeah, just use your special when they turn red" but you never saw the boss turn red, you're going to think your attacks were ineffective, and you're supposed to wait until the boss turns red before you strike. Learning that you were actually right to attack, you just hadn't done enough to turn the boss red? Gonna sour you on those guides …
/r/PurplePillDebate26/07/26 08:50 PM
-1

Oh, the irony of the statement.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/26 11:28 PM
0

But those men are rare. More common are the ones who you only briefly saw during that one single sliver of their life when it proved too much and they had a public moment of weakness, daring to vent. That one momentary sliver of their life where they let themselves be seen, and it was out of a need to be seen that had been neglected for so long. That moment that defines them in the eyes of everyone who sees them. After all, what else do they have to go off? The man was invisible his entire life …
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/26 11:28 PM
1

While I'm sure there are men who think like that, I never meet them. The men I know, putting out early only gets her moved to "the fun box" if she'd otherwise be in "the danger box" ... getting to "the wife box" is an entirely separate axis, where one of the predicates is not earning your spot in "the danger box" first. That said, I still recommend not sleeping around early. Not because it hurts your chances with the guy (it doesn't) but because it's a good filter to get rid of some of those guy…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/26 07:39 PM
3

You mean the reliable guy who was always there when she needed someone? Yeah, gee ... really activating the almonds with this question.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/26 07:34 PM
0

The sheep dog knows that wolves exist.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/26 05:45 PM
–

in a lot of cases the guy showing interest in the woman and the woman not reciprocating would just change the dynamic, it could actually end the friendship all together. That's usually because one or more parties doggedly hold onto the old dynamic until someone snaps under the unnecessary pressure. The other times, it's because that's just what happens with any friendship that's run its course.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/26 08:21 AM
–

i think women hate their guy close friend developing feelings, but if he's a new friend or as you said, an acquaintance, it's not that big of a problem. Guess which one's more likely to develop genuine feelings, and which one was more likely to be faking their desire to be friends. Go on, guess. i think what women dread isn't simply him getting feelings or being into her, but more so if she's not interested now she'll have to reject him and that can turn ugly or simply change a prexisiting dynam…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/26 07:51 AM
–

All of this makes sense when you realise that they simply want to develop feelings for a man before he asks her out. "How am I supposed to know she developed feelings?" Fucking flirt and find out. I'm a straight guy. I know what straight guys are like with friends. We'll flirt with each other just to be funny. Flirt with her, and watch how she responds. Does it look like she's laughing, or is it hitting close to home?
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/26 07:41 AM
2

Prenups are often thrown out the moment they're in front of a judge.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/26 07:32 AM
1

Complicating this is that "confidence" and "asshole behaviour" are in the eye of the beholder, and the Halo Effect is in full swing. If you're attracted to them, it's a lot easier to call it confidence. If they repulse you, its easier to call them an asshole.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/26 05:01 AM
1

Like I, and many women are open to romance or sex, but have a very low drive to go put of our way to seek it out. A lot of men are like this, too. Most of us come to terms with dying alone.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/26 04:49 AM
2

I think it's a little more complicated than that. I think a lot of these men are putting women on a pedestal, yes. But they're then trying to climb onto that pedestal themselves, be that virtuous person who would be this woman's equal. And as they get close to the top of the pedestal, when that they see the woman was still standing on the ground, that's when they become disillusioned.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/26 08:28 AM
1

When they don't have any friends to speak of, I'd call that a more pressing issue for their mental health than not having dates, to the point that dating is almost entirely irrelevant to talk about ...
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/26 08:03 AM
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