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Upvotes Title Category Author Subreddit Date (UTC)
29

Discussionuccelloverde/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/21 06:58 PM
Upvotes Comment on Subreddit Date (UTC)
19

I think it’s the fear that no woman will choose them.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/26 04:34 PM
1

I grew up with this same understanding of nice and kind being synonyms. When I heard so many people on the internet saying they use it to only mean surface level politeness, I was shocked.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/03/26 07:19 PM
6

I’m Purple Pill, so I’ll reply here. I’ve thought a lot about suffering and bitterness myself - not just in the context of dating, but life in general. I think it comes down to letting yourself feel your pain and validate it, without getting stuck there. Talking to a therapist can help. To some degree, it’s about accepting the various types of misfortune we’ll all encounter, but not assuming failure is final.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/26 01:00 AM
1

I was just saying the commenter above wasn’t advocating violence. In terms of a solution, you mentioned two options. Some of these guys probably can get laid eventually if they work on themselves and try enough times, but that’s also up to them (vs something society would change).
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/26 07:07 PM
0

He didn’t say that was the solution. Just that it’s a genuine issue to feel bad about.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/26 05:33 PM
0

I don’t think it’s not understanding- it sounds like you just look more flattering with makeup on.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/26 01:26 PM
–

I know this comes across as “not all men,” but I’m sure some of these men feel entitled and some of them don’t. There a probably plenty of them who just feel bad about their situation without demonizing women for it. I agree that it’s a problem for society.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/26 09:43 PM
–

When you said “believe they are owed access,” it came across less like you have sympathy for their plight, and more like you view them as losers we’d be better off without.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/26 08:54 PM
9

I think you guys probably have different perceptions of how feasible it is to find a partner who finds you attractive. I’m betting OP thinks most men will struggle to find any woman who finds them attractive.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/26 01:18 PM
4

If he looks like a model and has a good job, I imagine some woman would basically lead the interaction to sex for him and become his girlfriend, assuming he’s able to relax around her after they’ve spent time together.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/01/26 11:49 PM
7

I’m wondering if the kind and caring part is what guaranteed your success, or if these women were receptive to meeting a guy and found you attractive enough. I’m not saying not to be kind- I think it’s what people should aspire to regardless of dating success- but there’s no way to know that that’s what sealed the deal for you.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/01/26 11:40 PM
1

I think it’s easy for average looking people to reconcile themselves to dating other average looking people (vs really attractive people), but I wonder if there’s a cutoff point where ugly people would have trouble finding their counterparts attractive. I guess this is for each person to decide.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/25 01:46 PM
1

The Protestant work ethic has a strong hold on what Americans consider moral.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/25 01:33 PM
0

I can see that, but I think we have different dispositions. For me, it would be more about whether I can find success somewhere else.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/25 02:14 AM
2

I think it’s harder for guys if they’re coming from a place of scarcity- seeing a woman they’re attracted to with other guys while they can’t find anyone. But if they’re able to date women they like after the rejection, that probably makes it easier to let go of the attachment.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/25 01:50 AM
29

I think this is well put. A lot of unsuccessful guys didn’t realize how hard it could be to attract a partner.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/11/25 01:00 AM
2

I think Bernie Sanders has addressed this occasionally. A lot of the men struggling think they’re struggling because women or minorities are pitted against them. But really, they’re struggling because our economy works for the privileged few.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/25 01:26 PM
5

In a school context, I’m betting a lot of these guys have been on the receiving end of bullying-i.e., exposed to actual asshole behavior- and saw that these bullies did fine with girls.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/10/25 01:11 AM
5

Thumbs up for the term “people farm.”
/r/PurplePillDebate12/10/25 03:47 AM
–

I’m asking in good faith: Would you say it’s a delicate balance for the guy to figure out when the sexual behavior is welcome? Is it mainly about flirting and seeing if it’s reciprocated?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/10/25 12:38 PM
2

Not trying to discourage anyone, but you reminded me of when in grad school I went to an intro salsa lesson on campus. The girl I was dancing with was moving her hips way more than the teacher showed (I think she had gone to salsa nights at clubs) and she got visibly upset that I wasn’t good.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/09/25 08:25 PM
-1

I don’t think it’s voluntary. If you’re attracted to them, you’re attracted to them.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/09/25 08:08 PM
2

I think she’s saying the act of pursuing what you want is attractive to women.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/09/25 08:08 PM
3

It depends on how bad you want it and how long you have to go without it. I think if someone really wants a partner and can’t ever find one, it can take a lot of effort to make peace with that.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/09/25 01:14 AM
1

Because men are apparently more visual, we see women we find sexy all the time. The realization that the vast majority of women you come across won’t have that reaction to you is disappointing.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/09/25 11:28 PM
15

Patriarchy hurts everyone. Privileged men ran the world on top of everyone else.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/09/25 12:20 AM
4

Yeah, they’ll have to make peace with the fact that some people have it really easy in attracting others, and some have yo work at it for a while.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/09/25 09:11 PM
3

If the guys are only in their 20s, they still have the possibility of working on whatever they need to work on and finding someone.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/09/25 09:08 PM
1

I think most men who call themselves “nice” think they’re saying they’re good. The conflation of “nice” with people pleasing feels like a recent phenomenon (i.e., within the last couple of decades).
/r/PurplePillDebate08/09/25 03:13 PM
–

Just going to throw out, I think she’s pretty good looking. But yeah, I guess she doesn’t have the typical movie star look.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/25 06:35 PM
–

I don’t think most men are surprised that women find handsome men attractive- I remember hearing the term “tall, dark, and handsome” growing up. I think they’re frustrated when they realize that if they’re not handsome (which is most men) they can end up being basically invisible to women.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/25 06:29 PM
8

You’re seeing it in terms of entitlement, but it does suck knowing that there’s something you really want that others can easily get but is off limits to you. I think it makes these guys feel inferior. I personally don’t want to sleep with people I barely know, but I get how feeling excluded can be painful.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/25 09:54 PM
1

How would one retrain their brain to be attracted to people they don’t find attractive?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/08/25 12:26 AM
9

Honestly, it took me a while to learn that acting flirty was a build up that women need to get in the mood for a kiss. I think when I started dating, I tended to just have a conversation (I think the convo would be fun and have laughing, not just interview style) and then try to go for a kiss.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/25 08:07 PM
–

I think he means it holistically- yeah, having a good career can improve your dating chances, but it will likely improve your life overall.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/07/25 12:30 PM
–

Lately, I’ve seen public figures like Scott Galloway talk a lot about the situation of young men, including their difficulties finding mates, and he gives advice on how to build a career, get your life together, and try to meet women. I think this is great, and would like to see more prominent men offer advice to young men. It probably does need to be men taking the lead on this.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/25 11:57 PM
4

Not everyone is guaranteed to have platonic relationships, either.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/25 08:12 PM
3

It can just be a negative feeling towards the situation, without blaming anyone. Some people are just unlucky in various ways, and misfortune doesn’t have to be someone’s fault.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/25 08:10 PM
31

Most people agree that it’s not a right, but I think most people would also consider a life completely devoid of love to be extremely unfortunate. I guess it’s not a need in the way that food or water are, but it’s definitely important to human flourishing. I think this is just one of the many ways in which life is unfair: most of us really want love and sex, but not all of us will get it.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/25 02:34 PM
5

I think everyone should be aware that it’s a possibility they’ll never end up in a relationship, but I believe most people do at some point (whether or not it’s life long), so assuming they never will would be overkill for the average person. I suppose we need to be able to hope for something while knowing it’s not guaranteed, which can be difficult.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/25 12:40 AM
7

I think they want the effort to pay off. There are plenty of guys who try and end up empty handed.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/05/25 06:19 PM
1

In high cost of living areas, like DC, it’s not uncommon.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/05/25 03:36 PM
12

I agree with that. We shouldn’t act like men can’t be victims of that kind of abuse.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/05/25 05:31 PM
45

I don’t think being motivated by sex is the main issue. Men need to work on this, but we’re all influenced by the culture we’re raised in. I think for a long time, being vulnerable has been portrayed as un-masculine, and lots of men have internalized that. Ultimately, it takes two to tango. OP is fortunate to have found men he can bond with. Individual men will have to do the same, and it will be easier for some and harder for others.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/05/25 04:59 PM
21

I think this boils down to a difference in the way men and women use “nice.” I think most guys who think of themselves as nice mean kind and considerate. Whereas, they didn’t realize that women use “nice” as a synonym for having no backbone.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/25 09:17 PM
3

Moved post to Automod: This is something I’ve had to deal with, too. First, I didn’t really know how to sexualize an interaction. But second, I had a general impression that doing so was bad and objectifying. People who are good at this, would you say it’s mostly about moving the conversation in a flirty (but not sexually graphic) direction, physical contact, vocal tonality? All of the above?
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/25 07:32 PM
18

This is something I’m trying to internalize. I’ve long had a mental association of “sexual” as not being respectful.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/25 05:38 PM
8

Sociologists like Robert Putnam have pointed out that the US is having a social recession more generally - lots of people are getting way less interaction with family, friends and community than generations past. Better urban design and the return of third spaces would help. But also, it needs to be in fashion to get involved with organizations in your community. In the past, for a lot of people that was church, but it doesn’t have to be religious- Putnam talked about things like bowling leagues…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/05/25 01:54 PM
–

I like this nuanced take. The fact that no one is owed a relationship doesn’t mean that large numbers of men being unable to find one isn’t a problem.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/05/25 01:04 PM
1

I think it depends on the person, and many factors are involved. I’m sure there are guys who have been unsuccessful so far who can find a partner if they make some changes/keep trying. It’s up to the individual to decide when he’s done trying.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/04/25 01:42 PM
14

I’m autistic, and I didn’t have any dating success until my late 20s-early 30s. I’m 40 now, and have had a dry spell for a bit, but I’d like to try dating again in the near future. I do sometimes feel bad about waiting so long to get experiences that most people have at a younger age. But, I’d point out that it’s possible to get there eventually. I hope you don’t give up.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/25 01:27 AM
1

Interesting to hear your take.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/25 07:11 PM
4

Yeah, I agree with that. For instance, things like flirting and reading body language can be a challenge for autistic people.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/25 07:00 PM
9

I’m autistic, and growing up I understood that handsome and popular guys did well with girls. I wonder if some of the guys complaining don’t literally mean that they didn’t understand being good looking was an advantage, but that they didn’t understand that not being good looking can make you kind of invisible. They imagined that even if they weren’t swimming in potential dates like the handsome guys, there’d still be a good number of women interested in them.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/25 06:47 PM
1

If no one wants them, they could be viewed as victims of misfortune.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/25 09:58 PM
12

The ones who insist that are trying to comfort themselves with the idea that, even if they can’t find a partner, they’re a better person than the guys who can.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/04/25 01:38 PM
4

Ultimately, it’s them not knowing how to deal with the pain of being unwanted. The anger towards sexually successful people is a reaction to despair from not being able to find someone.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/04/25 01:36 PM
4

I agree with this. I think it’s often naïveté rather than cynicism.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/04/25 11:59 PM
11

More likely, they want to be men, but not have to be the pursuer.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/03/25 10:28 PM
3

Feeling bad about not being picked isn’t necessarily entitled.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/03/25 08:48 PM
4

Neoliberal in the economic sense- fewer regulations, fewer social safety nets.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/03/25 08:28 PM
–

The “great guy” thing is interesting. I think a lot of women don’t realize that it can be hard as hell to find interested women, even if you’re not some sort of sleaze ball.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/25 01:23 PM
2

Good reference.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/02/25 10:39 PM
3

From a guy’s perspective, if I think a girl has pretty eyes, they can be kind of mesmerizing. Assuming the guy means it, and isn’t just throwing out things randomly, it really is meant as a compliment.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/02/25 06:39 PM
5

I’m not trying to be combative, but asking in good faith, how should a guy seek out women who are willing to lead? They’re a minority, so it’s kind of a crapshoot, right?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/25 01:56 PM
1

Some are shut ins, but they’re unusual (I have some homebody women in my family).
/r/PurplePillDebate19/02/25 05:02 PM
3

Others have mentioned it, but I think envy is a big part of it. If you see handsome guys easily getting relationships and/or hookups, and you’re an average to below average guy who’s struggling, it’s easier on your psyche to see the successful guys as villains. There are certainly unfaithful handsome guys out there, but it’s not all of them.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/25 08:12 PM
1

I think part of the difference is relative scarcity. Average looking women can still have an abundance of options, even if it’s not on the same level as a model. Men who aren’t handsome are in for a harder time, and that can fuel resentment.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/25 08:06 PM
2

I like this take. Expressing frustration is natural, but you’re better off not letting it progress to wallowing and inaction.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 01:58 AM
6

I like this take. Expressing frustration is natural, but you’re better off not letting it progress to wallowing and inaction.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/25 01:58 AM
–

Men from certain ethnic backgrounds tend to be more broadly desired.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/25 12:07 AM
–

I’m in Rotary, and I joined specifically to build community. It has men and women members- I’ve gotten to know some good people in my area through the club.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/25 02:02 PM
–

Run by Richard Reeves, right? He’s been bringing a lot of attention to these issues.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/25 02:00 PM
3

Not every ND is going to be successful, but I agree with the overall message. I’m on the spectrum and I’ve only really started having dating experiences as an adult, and I think it’s good for people like us to know we have a chance, even if it takes longer than for most people.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/25 04:34 PM
13

I think usually men feel the same way you describe when looking at porn- they want to see an attractive woman who looks like she’s enjoying herself. I think the para-social relationships address a different itch- romantic loneliness.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/25 02:37 PM
–

I think it depends. There are definitely men who are cynical and will behave in whatever way it takes to get laid. But as OP mentions, there’s a way of behaving that’s more likely to be a turn on for women, and not all men behave that way naturally. Some guys are stiff, nerdy, autistic, etc. Trying to figure out how to behave in a way to create a spark can sometimes be a case of fake it until you make it, instead of just being a lie.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/24 01:57 PM
–

Just wanted to add the successful guy has specifically sexual interpersonal skills. You can be good at interacting with people in a platonic context without understanding how to turn women on.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/24 01:48 PM
–

I think the guys who create the spark are instinctively doing some of the things pickup artists learn through practice. Some guys are naturals, and some guys have to study how to flirt.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/24 01:46 PM
–

That was an abusive relationship. I’m glad you’re out of it.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/12/24 03:23 PM
–

As an autistic guy, I get where he’s coming from. I don’t think he wants to punish anyone, it’s just that men are expected to lead physical escalation, and we have to be able to read body language to know if the woman wants us to make a move (which can be difficult for us), and if we ask explicitly, that can shut the whole thing down. It can be frustrating, and I think he’s expressing frustration (not vengefulness).
/r/PurplePillDebate26/12/24 02:57 PM
2

Have you heard of Richard Reeves (Brookings Institution). He’s a centrist/progressive who brings attention to men falling behind, but is painstaking in saying that opposing women’s rights isn’t the solution.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/24 08:51 PM
6

I definitely prefer brunettes.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/24 01:01 AM
2

Match and Okcupid were like this. I preferred being able to look at profiles and then decide who to contact, versus having to decide on a swipe.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/12/24 10:21 PM
6

Thanks, I appreciate it. And that’s an interesting observation. I have had some successes, so I think I’ll have more in the future.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/11/24 03:50 PM
11

As an autistic guy, I’ve heard that. Personally, I struggle to know how to give off a flirty energy, partly for fear of going too far and coming across as overly sexual or pushy.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/11/24 02:45 PM
11

If you’re autistic, you can see other people’s behavior, but not be able to separate the signal from the noise -i.e., realize what aspects you should emulate. 2. You may see some things like flirting in public, but lots of things between a budding couple happen when they’re one on one.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/11/24 10:54 PM
1

So, although I do chit chat with strangers occasionally, they all have the right to decide not to engage with me. I definitely think anyone approaching people in public should be cautious and not force themselves on someone who doesn’t want to interact. In short, even if you chat people up, that’s no guarantee they’ll befriend you, sleep with you, or any other outcome you want.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/11/24 03:39 PM
1

Agreed.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/11/24 03:35 PM
3

Agreed. This reminds me of the scene in A Beautiful Mind, where John Nash is talking to a woman at a bar, and suggests they dispense with flirting, and “skip to fluid exchange,” at which point, I think he gets slapped in the face.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/11/24 03:29 PM
1

That kind of thing throws me off. There are women who’ll be put off if you try to get physical too soon, and others who will drop you if you don’t get physical soon enough. I’m always unsure, but I tend to err towards going too slow.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/11/24 03:25 PM
3

I think you could reasonably say social connection is a need for most people, but that doesn’t mean anyone’s obligated to be your friend.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/11/24 03:22 PM
6

If you picked it up yourself, that’s great. Plenty of autistic or just awkward men aren’t going to notice these things spontaneously and need it spelled out.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/11/24 10:24 PM
1

Yeah, I think there was a time when fathers were expected to show their sons the ropes, and these days they don’t bother.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/24 02:02 PM
2

I think the second paragraph is what people should emphasize. It would be more helpful to say “Work on developing yourself socially (get out around people), emotionally (self reflection, therapy, etc), physically (exercise and grooming), but don’t try putting on an act.” “Just be yourself” (particularly the “just”) can obscure the fact that you might have to develop yourself a lot.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/24 01:35 PM
1

Also quoting Furio: “I ‘ate the North.”
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/24 01:34 PM
15

Yeah, people having kids and disappearing sucks. I wonder if parents used to maintain their friendships in earlier generations.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/10/24 12:41 AM
3

No, I’m American, but I’ve studied the language out of personal interest. I’ve also visited twice and loved it over there. Good luck with your studies!
/r/PurplePillDebate26/10/24 12:37 AM
25

Yeah, I do wonder how widespread this kind of thinking is. And you translated my screen name! 😃
/r/PurplePillDebate26/10/24 12:29 AM
61

I identify with this. In the past, I was so intent on not being a jerk who “just wanted one thing” that I went too far in the non-sexual direction. I think I’ve gotten better at dating since then, though.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/10/24 11:21 PM
19

I think he’s a kind person who values his relationships with friends and family and helps others when he can. He’s unsuccessful with women either due to not being good at flirting, being unfortunate looking.l, or plain bad luck. I have no idea what the percentages are. He’s probably hoping to find a woman who’s similarly kind and whom he finds cute- if he’s not unfortunate looking, the latter is a reasonable hope.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/10/24 11:07 PM
0

Option 2 sounds healthiest and most likely to help men, but given the breakdown in community and the competitiveness you allude to, it would be difficult to realize. Men forging connections with other men could help those who are isolated improve their lives and hopefully become more attractive in the process. And for the men who aren’t fortunate enough to find a partner, they can at least get friendships out of it.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/24 07:54 PM
4

I think it refers to dark hair.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/24 06:16 PM
1

I think feminism as you’ve described it - seeking equality between the sexes, and excluding the extremists- is great. I’m glad women have more opportunity today to pursue the life (career, marital status, social life, etc) they want, rather than be forced into the homemaker role. My mom worked for a bit, but eventually became a stay at home mom and I think long term it wasn’t good for her- now that my brother and I are grown, she doesn’t have a ton going on in her life. If I find a partner, I wa…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/10/24 11:29 PM
2

I’m used to hearing people say “You’re so sensitive.” I guess when it’s used as a pejorative, they only mean you feel things acutely.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/10/24 04:44 PM
3

People on the spectrum actually do tend to be sensitive- as in, feel their emotions intensely. But by sensitive, do you mean empathetic?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/10/24 04:20 PM
6

I just had flashbacks to the many experiences of women telling me they didn’t feel a “spark.”
/r/PurplePillDebate22/10/24 01:05 AM
7

Agreed, but it’s understandably hard to accept.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/10/24 01:54 PM
12

I think the people who are really frustrated by this are the ones who can’t find someone who likes them.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/10/24 01:30 PM
–

That’s reasonable, but I think it can be very difficult for someone to completely let go of the hope of finding someone.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/10/24 12:32 AM
41

I think most people who call themselves “nice” are thinking of number 1, but a lot of people call someone else nice thinking number 2. It’s kind of weird how the word has such opposing connotations.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/10/24 05:02 PM
2

Yeah, I can agree with that.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/10/24 07:48 PM
18

It’s important for men to realize that they generally can’t afford to be passive if they want to date. This is coming from a man who was too in his head second guessing to try asking girls out in college. Fortunately, I’ve had some dating success many years later as an adult.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/10/24 07:33 PM
5

Nice screen name.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/10/24 04:35 PM
2

Kudos on initiating the first kiss. It can be difficult to know when a woman’s comfortable enough with you for that.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/09/24 05:51 PM
2

We’re coming from a time where historically, if a guy had a job he could get a wife. This is a transitional period where more is expected of men, and men didn’t see it coming.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/09/24 09:19 PM
2

I’m not talking about an ugly person. I’m talking about regular looking guys not realizing that if they don’t max out (i.e., look as immaculate as possible) they’ll have zero success. They probably looked normal and expected moderate success.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/09/24 08:16 PM
2

I think he’s saying he didn’t realize how little leeway he had- that someone who isn’t super handsome has to work his ass off to max out his looks.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/09/24 07:40 PM
1

I think he has pretty good guests on, and generally find the conversations interesting.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/09/24 03:37 AM
2

I’m also a fan of Robert Wright and Paul Bloom- I love when Bloom is on The Wright Show.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/09/24 03:35 AM
8

As someone who was raised religious (and isn’t anymore), I still have echoes of the idea that sex outside of marriage is somehow dirty.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/24 05:21 PM
–

I don’t think it’s logical, it’s just something that can happen. Guys who do that would be better off if they found a way to process their pain without turning it into hatred.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/09/24 10:46 PM
1

I agree with this. Directing pain outward vs inward.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/09/24 09:35 AM
2

Your level of investment affects the intensity of frustration and your reaction to it. I’m sure your frustration at not opening packages is momentary, unlike the chronic frustration of not being able to find a partner.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/09/24 09:34 AM
2

If everyone rejects you, it means you’re either undesirable (ergo, people don’t want to breed with you), or strangely unlucky. As for number 2, I think men are more likely to externalize and act out on their pain. I know I’ve done it in the past, and I’m striving not to do it in the future, but it’s like a reflex, not a deliberate conclusion that externalization is the best response.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/09/24 09:32 AM
2

That’s meta level thinking, not an instinctive reaction. It takes effort to get there.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/09/24 09:28 AM
2

The difference is most men crave sex and companionship from women. It’s harder to be indifferent about something you crave. I’m not good at most sports (I’m on okay runner though), but i don’t think about most sports because I didn’t care much about them in the first place.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/09/24 09:24 AM
4

But you probably don’t crave being able to dunk a basketball the way most people crave finding a partner.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/09/24 09:11 AM
3

I go to occasional house parties thrown by friends, but most of my friends don’t throw (or attend) parties very often. We usually go out to restaurants, cafes, movies, etc. I have a studio apartment, so I don’t have much room in my place, although I’ve taken to renting the common area on my birthday and having friends over for a meal.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/09/24 01:02 AM
–

I think parents, aunts, uncles, etc drilling it into kids that they’ll face adversity and teaching about resilience, self compassion, and coping skills would be great. I feel like lots of people are open about their good times and silent about how they get through struggles, which can make it harder to know what to do in periods of hardship.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/09/24 09:27 PM
–

I think parental involvement would be helpful. I’m sure lots of parents emphasize academic achievement, but encouraging being physically active and hanging out with friends would also help in their children’s development.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/09/24 09:16 PM
–

It’s craving an idealized relationship and/or access to sex with attractive women that they think only a lucky few men (Chads) can achieve.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/08/24 04:26 PM
2

Fair enough.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/08/24 01:37 PM
14

Why are you assuming he’s a pushover?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/08/24 01:28 PM
17

Not demeaning, overly aggressive, or crude. Showing that I’m sexually attracted to a woman without it looking like I think she’s just some piece of meat.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/08/24 07:22 PM
38

Chiming in with the others to agree. I’ve struggled with the idea that being “respectful” to a woman requires being non-sexual. It’s about balance. You can flirt to show you’re interested, without going overboard and being too crass or explicit.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/08/24 02:21 PM
4

People throw therapy around a lot, but if you’re genuinely so anxious you can’t talk, I’d recommend seeking out mental health treatment. People with anxiety- through therapy and/or medication- can get better at functioning in daily life. In terms of the fear of appearing crass when flirting, I can identify with that. I’m not great at flirting, and over the years I’ve tried to get more comfortable with making my interest in a woman evident.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/08/24 02:17 PM
6

I used to live in Chicago, and I heard there are more men than women there.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/08/24 06:13 PM
2

Have you heard Yanis Varifakis’ term “Techno-Feudalism” for the next stage of capitalism?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/08/24 01:05 AM
20

Nasty, brutish, and short.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/08/24 01:01 AM
15

I think for men, physical appearance and physical attraction are more tightly coupled. If a guy thinks a woman looks good, he’s likely to be physically attracted to her. He could end up being turned off by her personality or something else, though.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/24 03:25 PM
–

This reminds me of a guy a while back who was begging for money in a metro station. He clearly wasn’t even looking at people’s faces, because he asked me for money three times and I said no each time.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/24 09:57 PM
1

I agree, there’s no point in looking for anyone to blame.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/24 03:11 PM
1

Saying it’s their fault they were unsuccessful could be an over-generalization. Some people aren’t able to figure out how to date at the same speed as everyone else, and some are just unlucky.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/24 03:07 PM
1

I don’t want kids. I’m single and mostly career focused, but I try to get my needs for connection met with friends and family.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/24 12:44 AM
3

It’s possible to be distraught that it’s ending, but if you respect her decision, you won’t try to make her take you back.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/24 04:36 PM
–

I saw him perform the week before he passed away. Hilarious comedian.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/07/24 03:27 PM
4

I had one woman on an app say “I don’t do coffee dates.” But most of the other women contacted were okay with them.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/07/24 01:44 AM
2

I think this lines up with the code-switching OP suggested: you were comfortable discussing both your niche interests as well as the things most kids were watching.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/24 12:49 AM
6

I’ve watched talks by Robert Putnam, the author of Bowling Alone, and although he’s documented the worsening atomization in modern societies, I believe he’s also talked about it being a cyclical phenomenon and seeing reasons for hope that we can rebuild community.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/24 10:39 PM
1

Unfortunate and true.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/24 10:36 PM
4

This is a good observation. It’s important to find some community, even if it ends up being niche. I remarked to a friend once that I think a lot of nerds grow up being rejected, until they eventually find other nerds who accept them.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/24 10:36 PM
5

I definitely agree that parents- and extended family- raising kids in a sociable environment will lead to socially capable adults. I’m autistic and would have struggled no matter what, but I grew up with parents who are kind of recluses. And we were military, so we constantly moved and lived far away from my aunts, uncles and cousins. As an adult, I’ve gradually become more comfortable socializing, but I think you’re spot on as far ad the importance of early experiences.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/24 10:33 PM
3

There are compassionate men out there who want to help other men (and women). They may be a minority, but if it’s important to you that men help each other, you can try to be that kind of person.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/24 06:57 PM
9

I’ve been fortunate to find a therapist (who happens to be a woman), who genuinely listens to what I have to say, understands where I’m coming from, and doesn’t try to make everything my fault. I especially appreciate it because the first therapist I had was a man who did exactly that- I remember describing the things he said to my brother, and my brother called it “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” advice. So, it’s possible to find ones who are helpful.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/24 06:53 PM
5

Guys who are unsuccessful think they’re being passed over for high value men, and some of them hope they can become HVMs in order to find a partner.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/07/24 05:00 PM
–

They’re unwanted in the sense that they haven’t found a partner who wants them yet.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/24 07:33 PM
–

Support groups for men who are romantically unsuccessful sounds like a good idea. There’s a bit of a first mover problem: who’s going to start the group? Maybe some of these guys should look for general men’s support groups.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/24 07:32 PM
1

I agree, apps have kind of forced multi-dating. I haven’t dated in a while, but when I used apps, I’d get a couple matches at a time and set up dates with them. Eventually, if I was lucky, it would winnow down to one woman I would date for a while.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/24 04:26 PM
1

Yeah, I agree with that.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/24 03:57 PM
1

If he’s able to put his attraction aside, yeah. It’s disappointing not getting to pursue a relationship with someone you’re into, but friendship is valuable.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/24 03:43 PM
2

They want women they’re attracted to to also be attracted to them. But since women are autonomous, it often doesn’t work out that way. (I’m not advocating taking away women’s freedoms, just pointing out the underlying impulse.)
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/24 03:39 PM
–

I agree that covert contracts are bad, and I hope the guys you mentioned learn the distinction between being kind and trying to obligate a response with performative acts. But I still think winning women over with gestures is part of the pop culture, and some guys attempted it without realizing it’s manipulative. I know I grew up seeing that stuff in movies and thought, “Oh, that’s how you prove to a girl you like her.” Men have to learn how to pursue women, and some figure it out way earlier th…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/24 01:21 PM
–

I don’t think every guy who tries winning women over with big gestures and fails goes to being underhanded and trying to tear down Chad. But in the case of those who do, I agree, that behavior sucks.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/24 12:42 PM
3

I think a lot of these guys genuinely think it is wooing. There have been plenty of TV shows, movies, stories, etc. where guys do a bunch of “chivalrous” stuff to demonstrate what a good boyfriend they’d be. They never learned the right way to pursue someone.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/24 12:57 AM
1

I take it you think it’s better not to complain. Do you think the normal guys don’t complain because they expect to succeed eventually? Or do they eschew complaining even if they’ll never find someone?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/24 09:04 PM
5

Rejection is painful, and some of these guys might just be venting about continued failure, vs vilifying the women who rejected them.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/24 06:06 PM
3

Some average guys who put effort in have girlfriends, and some don’t. I don’t think only Chads can get girlfriends- that’s definitely an extremist view. But guys envy that Chads can get girlfriends more reliably and with more ease, whereas for other men it’s more of a struggle)even if they eventually succeed).
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/24 02:32 PM
5

It is othering, but when guys refer to Chad, they’re not just talking about an average looking guy who put effort into his appearance. They mean the small percentage of very good looking men who don’t have to struggle for women’s attention like the hoi polloi.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/24 11:51 AM
6

Seems like a lot of dads are checked out when it comes to parenting. Mine was, for example.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/24 10:09 PM
2

Yeah, this is a very normal looking woman- I’d have no problem dating someone with her body.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/07/24 11:18 PM
1

Honestly, during the early days of the pandemic, I watched a lot of redpill content, and got kind of sucked in and started to become resentful of women. Being here, I moderated a lot. It’s hard for me to point out all the specific things I learned, but one that comes to mind is that, although hot people can find partners faster, dating is a slog for most people, and rejection comes with the territory. In terms of sorting out the chaff, I tend to disagree with things that sound too extreme or hat…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/07/24 07:40 PM
1

I’m on the spectrum, and I think a lot of other people here are, too. However, there are a lot people here who’ve had typical romantic experiences but are also good at putting things into words, and I find that useful. I think most normies have a gut feeling for how intersexual relationships work, based on their experiences, but would struggle to be as explicit and exacting in describing them as we are in this sub.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/07/24 07:21 PM
2

Great to hear it worked out for you two.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/24 05:42 PM
3

Nice! Give him a high five for me.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/24 05:37 PM
13

I’m a nerdy guy (a short engineer with glasses), and for a while I dated a girl who was pretty and seemed very socially mainstream. I sometimes wondered why she was into me, but when I met her parents, I saw her dad was a short engineer with glasses. I’m not saying she was trying to date her father, but having grown up with that kind of dad, nerdiness might not have been as off-putting for her as it is for a lot of people.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/24 04:28 PM
2

I was thinking of the “watch the world burn” quote this morning! (In Michael Caine’s Cockney accent.)
/r/PurplePillDebate25/06/24 01:39 AM
0

It’s reasonable for people to date people who turn them on, so I agree, disparaging “tingles” is disingenuous. I think it comes from frustration at how hard the tingles can be to elicit. Most men will find themselves turned on by a woman if they think she looks good and she doesn’t do anything really off putting. But for a woman to feel turned on by a guy, usually the guy has to behave in a way that women find sexy and doesn’t come naturally to many (maybe most) men.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/24 05:52 PM
6

I guess if you’re good at flirting and smoothly escalating, it’s not, but not every guy is good at that. I remember trying to kiss a girl on the third date and she wasn’t ready yet (I didn’t ask her out again).
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/24 12:45 PM
5

Some guys go slow (perhaps too slow) because they don’t want to risk scaring the woman off by getting sexual too soon. It’s hard to know where a woman’s comfort zone is when you first meet her.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/24 12:39 PM
16

I think it’s good that, in this reddit, people are pretty explicit about the fact that you’re going to get a LOT of rejection in dating. I think rejection is so rarely mentioned in regular society that you could think something’s wrong with you if you experience it regularly. (I know there are cases where a person should introspect about if they need to change something, but I mean that even people who would make a good partner for someone are going to be rejected frequently.)
/r/PurplePillDebate18/06/24 05:46 PM
14

I’m sure some of it is from desperation and a sense of scarcity. They’ve come across someone they find attractive, and they don’t expect to find someone else and succeed with them.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/06/24 02:19 PM
2

I’m not sure the death of a loved one is the best example for this. I think grief is lifelong, it just becomes less omnipresent over time.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/06/24 01:30 PM
2

I think this is an important distinction. I’ve heard the phrase “he acted like a friend, but only wanted to fuck me,” but I’m betting it’s often something like this, where the guy genuinely was attracted both physically and to her personality.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/06/24 01:08 PM
5

Great series.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/06/24 09:27 PM
–

I think it comes down to the fact that rejection is painful, and while feeling that pain, it’s easy to go from this person didn’t think I’m good enough to date to “this person thinks I’m trash.”
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/24 09:27 PM
6

I once went on a few dinner dates with a woman and paid for all of them. After dinner on the third date, we went to a movie and she offered to pay, so I let her. She later said that was a test, and she really thought the man should always pay. (We didn’t keep dating.)
/r/PurplePillDebate31/05/24 09:25 PM
5

Why are you certain they’re WAY out of his league?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/05/24 11:20 AM
3

Or the app isn’t putting them in his matches.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/05/24 12:48 PM
5

I haven’t online dated in a while, but I definitely agree with you on meeting up sooner than later. I wasn’t on there for pen pals.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/05/24 12:45 PM
1

😂
/r/PurplePillDebate03/05/24 04:36 PM
1

This makes me think of how Henry Cavill loves Warhammer and building computers.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/24 07:10 PM
–

I’ve definitely heard Blue pillers say life isn’t fair, but not often that some (perhaps many people) will just be shit out of luck in terms of finding a partner no matter what they do. Yeah, there’s plenty of guys on here who will lash out about women’s standards. Edited: to say “in terms of”
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/24 09:33 PM
–

I like #2- it sounds a little bleak for a Blue piller.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/24 08:13 PM
1

Strongly agree with this.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/04/24 12:19 AM
3

This is a good description. I think for a long time I had the idea that not looking like I was interested in sex was being respectful, but you end up with the girl not feeling a spark.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/04/24 12:15 AM
10

Speaking of vultures circling… the last woman I dated (over a year ago) decided to get back with her ex when he came out of the woodwork, after we’d had the exclusivity talk that she initiated.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/03/24 12:04 PM
1

Agreed on everything being focused around romantic relationships. A lot of people seem to get most of their social needs met from their partner, and unpartnered people have to cover their social needs in a piecemeal fashion.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/24 01:26 AM
3

I can identify with this. I’m not as overly cautious as I used to be, but I definitely had the mindset that being a gentleman meant hiding your sexual interest.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/24 09:56 PM
1

Would therapy improve his chances? Or is it intended to examine the desire for hookups?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/03/24 07:38 PM
2

Yeah, I can see how trauma and upbringing could affect this, too.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/03/24 09:31 PM
6

Neurotypicals learn it naturally. ETA: I’m on the spectrum and I think I understood it on some level, but I don’t think I really became comfortable engaging with random people until I was an adult.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/03/24 01:03 PM
1

Plus one for the Manchurian Candidate reference.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/24 10:53 PM
1

He might also think women are more forgiving on looks, and hope he has a chance with a woman that he doesn’t consider ugly.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/24 09:20 PM
4

Funny story: In grad school, I dated a girl for a couple of months, and during a dinner, I told her how I really wanted to travel abroad when I had the chance. She called me later and said that when guys talk about traveling, it usually means they want to break up, and I should think about what I wanted (relationship-wise). I ended up breaking it off, because I didn’t want to be in a relationship where any innocuous thing I said could set off alarm bells. I know this is unusual, and I’m pretty s…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/24 03:48 PM
1

Including flirting and escalating smoothly.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/24 01:15 AM
1

Good point. Some people think introversion is synonymous with shyness or awkwardness, but it’s not.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/24 10:45 PM
–

Industrial engineer here approving of your description of the phenomenon as a bottleneck 👍🏾
/r/PurplePillDebate24/02/24 08:37 PM
–

Escalating slowly is part of it. I think more generally, learning to flirt as best they can and being willing to take the risk of going in for the kiss. They’re probably imagining that the woman will freak out if they try to get physical, but given that she’s probably been on tons of dates before, it’s not likely. A lot of the guys’ hesitation comes from catastrophizing.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/02/24 04:51 PM
–

I’m like the men you describe in the first paragraph, although I think I’ve gotten more comfortable with experience. Kudos to you on understanding where they’re coming from.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/02/24 04:37 PM
–

The fact that it’s explainable doesn’t mean it doesn’t suck.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/02/24 01:38 AM
–

I think the surprise is struggling to come to terms with the fact that they can’t have the options that the hot guys have.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/02/24 08:29 PM
1

Thanks, I appreciate it. Same to you.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/02/24 05:13 PM
2

I’ve definitely had milestones late and sometimes felt like I’ve fallen through the cracks. I didn’t start dating until mid-late 20s, and lost my virginity in my late 20s. I think a combination of being autistic, growing up in a religious family, and moving around a lot (military brat) made it harder for me to pick up the dating/relationship skills that my peers were learning. I had a couple of short term relationships in the past few years, but I’m currently single and not sure what to expect i…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/02/24 02:14 PM
5

What you did makes sense. It’s normal to try to win over someone you like. I think the Nice Guy that’s vilified is the one who lashes out when the girl doesn’t want him.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/02/24 08:53 PM
–

Personally, I used to think the two were mutually exclusive. I’m not sure what to pinpoint it to, but I had a general sense that being a “gentleman” and respecting women entailed steering far clear of that kind of boldness and sexually inflected behavior. The truth is subtle, not black and white- women don’t want asexual politeness, they like guys who are flirty, but also not overly crass and sexually explicit.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/24 06:50 PM
–

I think the cucked fear isn’t necessarily that they’d allow it, but driven by scarcity and a fear that women’s attraction and loyalty to you is precarious. “I struggled this hard to get her, and she cheated on me, and the next one probably will, too.” This is just my take on it- don’t have a history of fearing being cheated on.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/24 06:41 PM
2

Equanimity is something I aspire to - I know it’s going to take a lot of work to get there.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/24 02:40 PM
1

Just want to mention that the lyric quoted in this thread prompted me to listen to Jay-Z’s “Heart of the City” during my morning commute. Good song.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/02/24 10:35 PM
2

I’m in therapy, and this is something I think about a lot. Being able to suffer and heal afterwards, rather than hold onto the hurt. I think I’m naturally predisposed towards the latter, but getting better at letting things go- like you said, it just ends up hurting you, for basically no reason.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/02/24 08:54 PM
3

I think he means women will call their partner an assholes if they don’t give them what they want, when they want. As for men thinking bad boys are assholes, I’m betting a good amount of that comes from nerdy guys who were picked on and saw the guys picking on them do fine with women.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/24 11:05 PM
1

I’ve done it twice, and didn’t get any matches.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/24 07:59 PM
1

Great flair.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/24 02:43 AM
3

When I used to live in Chicago, a woman friend from college came to town for a wedding, and we caught up during the day. At one point, she said I must be having so much fun living there, and I was honest and said I didn’t have a lot of friends there and I would get lonely. She very visibly winced and didn’t say anything. Later, she repeated that I must be having so much fun, and I said what I said before. At that point she asked what I planned to do about it and I said I’d been going to French c…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/24 10:31 PM
3

Do you mean male seahorses?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/24 07:37 PM
3

Since you mentioned Breaking Bad, I’ll just say I got to meet Giancarlo Esposito (Gus Fring) at a comic convention in Albuquerque, and he was pretty cool.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/24 12:24 AM
4

Interesting. I’m a former Chicagoan, and in the DC area now, and I think Chicagoans are a lot easier to talk to than people in DC (in general).
/r/PurplePillDebate02/01/24 11:33 PM
6

I think in modern times with the internet, these men are aware of each other and are (sometimes) collectively radicalizing. In the past, lonely men would have just suffered alone. Of course, it would be ideal if they acted as support groups instead of places where they stoke each other’s anger.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/01/24 01:31 PM
2

This is a very good framing. The pain is understandable, but you don’t have to take it out on anyone else.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/12/23 01:10 AM
16

I grew up religious (Black Baptist, sort of evangelical), and although I’m not religious anymore, I think it left me with a feeling that being a good guy or a gentleman would entail not being sexual with women. It’s something I still struggle with - knowing the line between being sexual in a flirty way and being sexual in a crass or uncomfortable way.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/23 01:59 PM
0

That makes sense.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/12/23 01:47 AM
-1

Are there any Meetup groups in your area? Also, you might look into a service club like Rotary, Lions, Kiwanis, etc.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/12/23 01:43 AM
1

I don’t know that self love and confidence are synonymous to most men. I think confidence tends to come from seeing yourself succeed at something, and self love is something that not every man is taught.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/12/23 01:32 AM
2

I do think the US has gone too far towards suburbia, and that plays a part in how easy it is to be isolated.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/12/23 01:20 AM
0

Not all of them know it’s important yet.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/12/23 01:07 AM
2

I miss SOA. Gemma was a trip.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/12/23 10:48 PM
7

I think I internalized the “women don’t want sex that much” idea growing up. Perhaps partly from TV- I remember sitcoms like Everybody Loves Raymond, where the husband would beg his wife for sex and she always had a reason why it wasn’t a good time.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/12/23 01:49 AM
2

😂
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/23 02:30 PM
17

I can see where you’re going with this- guys who are naturally successful are more likely to be blue pilled, because failure isn’t forcing them to (over)analyze mating dynamics. That makes sense.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/23 03:11 AM
2

Not everyone’s adept at that kind of thing. The fact that you don’t find it impressive means you’re probably good at researching and analyzing documents.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/23 03:17 PM
3

We can try to care about the men we know personally. It’s not perfect- there will always be men who aren’t fortunate enough to have a support system- but individuals can choose not to be indifferent.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/12/23 10:06 PM
5

“Just as beautiful” is a stretch, but there are plenty of older women who are still good looking. I think the idea of there being a hard age cutoff for attractiveness is mistaken.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/12/23 02:00 AM
1

I was in Barnes & Noble today, and I saw a book about combating misogyny, and it included in*l and pickup artists in the subtitle. I can see how the first group would be identified with misogyny, but are pickup artists generally viewed that way? Is the idea that attraction can be systematized (and therefore women are somehow the same) considered sexist?
/r/PurplePillDebate07/12/23 01:41 AM
1

Indira Varma is my designated British hottie.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/12/23 01:38 AM
14

I think your last paragraph kind of gets it. Pursuing women can be tenuous and full of rejections. The “top guy” lifestyle of having an abundance of women chasing YOU sounds like an amazing life to a lot of men.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/12/23 03:59 PM
4

Good point about how finding a romantic partner is generally expected, and I think even more so with increasing atomization. I remember there was an Atlantic article a while back asking what it would be like if friendship instead of marriage was considered the core of our social lives.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/12/23 01:25 PM
3

It’s so commonly listed on dating apps that it’s turned into a cliche. But, I love traveling, too, so I wouldn’t hold it against someone.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/12/23 12:57 AM
–

I have a female friend I see once a week- we usually get coffee on the weekends.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/23 10:41 PM
8

Upper middle class. But I’m sure late 20s, UMC women are having kids.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/23 03:24 PM
13

The last part is a good point. Lots of men eventually find someone, but in general we don’t know how long or hard the struggle was.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/23 04:39 PM
11

I think the best approach is what you’re doing- don’t focus on the regret. It makes sense to feel some pain about missing out, but enjoying what you currently have will result in less discontentment.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/11/23 09:21 PM
3

I think most men who ask women out and are successful from time to time develop equanimity about rejection- it’s unpleasant, but unavoidable, and if they get some positive responses they’ll basically be okay with the process. If you’re someone who only gets rejections, though, hopefully you can figure out how to turn things around, but I could see it taking a toll on your confidence.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/11/23 01:46 AM
1

“Remaining motivated while making peace with the ultimate unfairness of the universe” - nice, I like that phrasing.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/11/23 12:09 AM
3

If you ask Camus, yes.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/11/23 09:49 PM
4

Thanks for posting this. I’m sure I knew in theory that the loneliness epidemic is affecting everyone, but I’m more used to seeing men talk online about loneliness, so these quotes were informative. As a society, we need to put effort into fostering connections.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/11/23 12:16 AM
6

I’d amend “nuclear family” with extended family and community more generally. David Brooks had an article (I think last year) about how the nuclear family was a misguided ideal that overlooked the importance of extended family relationships.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/11/23 12:14 AM
3

I don’t know that there’s widespread entitlement, so much as most people want romantic relationships and popular culture paints it as expected for people to be able to find a partner. So, they people who fail to find it are suffering, and some people express their suffering in poor ways (e.g., anger, lashing out).
/r/PurplePillDebate24/11/23 08:45 PM
1

Yeah, friendships are a two way street. Complacency’s a good way to end up isolated.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/11/23 08:31 PM
4

Does he not reach out to people? Or not bother to go to gatherings he’s invited to?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/11/23 08:02 PM
–

Yeah, that makes sense.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/11/23 06:03 PM
–

I agree that everyone should be working on themselves to be the best they can be, but there are guys who are doing that who still aren’t finding partners. There’s no guarantee that other people will want you even if you do improve. I’m not saying anyone should be guilted into dating them, just pointing out that some of this boils down to bad luck.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/11/23 05:11 PM
2

Most movies are going to have attractive lead actors.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/11/23 09:46 PM
–

I think it matters, but it can be viewed as a piece of the bigger struggle of boys and men to prosper in modern society, and that’s something I want to be discussed. Richard Reeves of the Brookings Institution has been drawing a lot of attention to this. Scott Galloway at NYU is another one.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/11/23 04:58 PM
–

I think among certain guy friends, I can have frank discussions about the difficulties of dating, and that’s enough for me. Trying to get society at large to recognize this would require time and effort I’d rather devote to other things.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/11/23 04:33 PM
–

I’m not saying they shouldn’t acknowledge it, I just don’t think it’s likely in this case and it’s not something I’m personally seeking.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/11/23 04:25 PM
0

I think he’s referring to the idea that autism is the male brain to the extreme - I believe autism research Simon Baron Cohen has used that description.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/11/23 03:16 AM
–

I agree with this. People used to use “nice” as basically synonymous with kind or good hearted, but now it’s being used to mean surface level polite behavior (which may have an ulterior motive).
/r/PurplePillDebate16/11/23 12:27 AM
1

Here in PPD we take it for granted that men are hornier, but there’s definitely been societal messaging that women are just as sexual as men, so it’s not unambiguous. Also, even if the average woman doesn’t experience the same level of thirst as a man, most women want partners, so it’s not obvious that a thirst disparity would make rejecting the norm.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/11/23 12:10 AM
14

The frequency matters- the fact that most attempts will fail isn’t really discussed.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/11/23 10:59 PM
16

I don’t feel like I need this admission, but I understand why some men want it: people generally want their struggles to be recognized. I think the tacit assumption is often that people can find a partner if they try, so there’s a dissonance that men experience when they keep getting rejected. If it were more openly agreed that most men are in for a shitload of rejections before (maybe) finding someone, they might tolerate the process better. But, again, I’m not demanding society acknowledge thi…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/11/23 10:47 PM
1

Years ago, I actually had a girl I was messaging with on Match suggest we see a movie for the first date. I said I’d like to meet up, but do something other than a movie so we can talk. Then she unmatched me.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/11/23 06:01 PM
2

Yeah, I think that covers the options.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/23 08:48 PM
2

What if you’re not attracted to the women who are at lower attractiveness levels?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/23 08:37 PM
2

So, this guy had a crush on his friend, who had a boyfriend? And ditched an actual date with you to chase someone unavailable? Pretty self defeating behavior on his part.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/23 08:53 PM
–

I’m a man, and I don’t agree with them. I think the average woman has more options than the average man- or at least, the options are easier for them to identify because men are the pursuers and tend to make their interest known. But saying that any woman regardless of looks, lifestyle, and location has endless options is outlandish.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/11/23 02:21 PM
–

The dilemma is that most people don’t want to date someone they find ugly. It probably takes a lot of work/willpower to look past genuinely ugly looks (I’m not talking about someone who’s just plain looking).
/r/PurplePillDebate02/11/23 11:47 AM
2

I think they’re not really implied by what people are saying, but the people who figure it out essentially have the right instincts guiding them to successful behavior. And people who struggle (especially those on the spectrum) are lacking in those instincts.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 04:28 PM
1

I’m wondering where the unspoken information comes from, though? Is it really implied that it’s just a nice platitude, or neurotypicals picked up on their own that it’s not accurate and mentally filled in the blanks. I overall agree with you that there are assumptions that aren’t spelled out, but I don’t think they’re really even implied- they’re just not stated.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/23 12:02 AM
11

People with autism can get better at understanding social situations- their understanding will be more intellectual than gut feeling, though.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/23 09:07 PM
12

It’s a service club that focuses on volunteering in the community and building friendships among members. There are chapters all over the US and around the world.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/10/23 01:41 AM
1

I think a lot of men’s willingness to settle comes from a sense of relative scarcity, due to all the rejections they get. They think there’s a good chance they won’t find anyone else, so they’ll settle for the woman who will have them.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/10/23 01:11 AM
2

Chad = Robber Baron
/r/PurplePillDebate30/10/23 12:51 AM
–

Does anyone remember the sketch comedy show The State? Yesterday, I saw the cast perform sketches live at a theater, and it was awesome.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/10/23 12:05 AM
3

I think it’s driven by frustration. The drive for sex and companionship is strong for most people, and being unable to find them while you see others succeed is painful. “Why them, and not me?”
/r/PurplePillDebate29/10/23 03:52 PM
31

I’m a Rotary member, and I definitely would like to see a comeback in service clubs and other voluntary organizations.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/10/23 01:40 PM
16

As a man on the spectrum, this is an accurate description- neurotypicals have some sort of instinct for this that we seem to lack. Kudos on being extra straightforward with your partner.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/10/23 02:51 AM
5

Kudos to you for the progress you’ve made. I’m also on the spectrum, and I think over the years, having friends to socialize with has built up my skills, too. It’s a spectrum, but many/most of us without profound disability (e.g., completely nonverbal) can learn these things.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/10/23 09:58 PM
18

I assume Brad didn’t have to work anywhere near as hard to convince most women he got with, but the rest of this is accurate: lots of serious effort for an outcome that could fall apart at anytime.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/10/23 09:18 PM
9

To elaborate, I think it’s the number of women you have to try with and how precarious it can be that makes it feel hard. Just because you’re being charismatic and put together, doesn’t mean you’re not going to get a ton of rejections because they didn’t feel a spark. I know women get rejections too, but I think on average, the outcome can feel way more uncertain for men.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/10/23 09:12 PM
2

I agree with this take. It’s unfortunate not having the kind of access to sex (with people who desire you back)you really want, but it’s not catastrophic.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/10/23 02:51 PM
8

It sounds like you have social skills- I think she’s checking to make sure you can comfortably hang out and have conversations with people without having a panic attack or weirding them out.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/10/23 08:37 PM
–

Nice flair.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/10/23 02:55 PM
–

He’s being ironic.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/10/23 01:24 AM
1

It’s great that you have such a large extended family and friend group. These days, it’s common to have fewer friends and to not live near family. I’m fortunate to a good number of friends, and I have relatives a couple hours away, but isolated people are becoming more prevalent.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/10/23 02:13 AM
9

There were probably always men that women generally didn’t want. They’re just more visible now because they talk about it on the internet.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/10/23 03:16 PM
3

Can confirm: I got a “no spark” response from a girl this past weekend.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/10/23 12:14 AM
2

I’m in a Rotary club, and I’m fortunate that my particular club has a wide range of ages.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/10/23 03:41 PM
1

This is important.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/09/23 01:32 AM
1

A lot of these guys are probably living in scarcity, and react the way they do because they don’t think they’ll find another person who’s interested.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/09/23 05:23 PM
1

I’m sure there are countless bad guys who do get sex, but I think there are men who, like I described, decide that the bad guys are the ones exclusively getting sex, and comfort themselves with the idea that they’re not like them.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/08/23 06:43 PM
29

Vilifying the guys who get sex is an attempt to find some sort of solace in their situation- “I might not get laid, but at least I’m not a bad guy.”
/r/PurplePillDebate28/08/23 06:20 PM
1

I think average height should be considered a range. 5’9” is the exact average, but one or two inches below still looks like a normal height.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/23 10:22 PM
1

Good suggestion.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/23 01:23 AM
11

I’m an autistic late bloomer guy who’s managed to have some dating experiences in recent years, and I’ve finally internalized that you need to be forthright with your interest early on and risk rejection. I think for a long time I thought making a move would come across as aggressive (instead of assertive). A lot of these sidling guys don’t yet have a clear understanding of what a man should do to pursue someone.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/23 01:14 AM
1

I think what you’re describing are manners, which everyone (ND or not) should learn to the best of their ability. Masking, for autistic people, goes further, and involves imitating facial expressions, body language, and vocal intonations that neurotypicals exhibit but autistic people often don’t. Depending how heavily you mask, it can become exhausting, because it requires constant, conscious effort (whereas it’s more automatic for neurotypicals).
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/23 02:32 PM
–

I think men with this mindset are dismayed that, in the aggregate, women don’t want short men, and it’s not so much about chasing one person who’s said no, but fear of the possibility that everyone will say no.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/23 10:34 PM
–

Fo you consider them pathetic because they weren’t picked, or because they’re complaining?
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/23 10:29 PM
15

A lot of autistic men struggle with dating and are therefore drawn to forums where people break down the mechanics of dating and relationships.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/23 02:13 PM
1

Honestly, I fall under this category and I’m fighting for my promotion. I think I’m making headway, but I definitely got the impression the higher ups weren’t really thinking about my career advancement until I started pushing for it.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/23 02:02 PM
1

Whoa, leave Grigory Perelman out of this.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/07/23 07:47 PM
1

I strongly agree with this. I’ve had dates with interesting conversations that made me feel more attracted to the women, but when I tried to set up another date,they’d say the didn’t feel a spark.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/07/23 03:00 PM
5

Have you considered service clubs like Rotary, Kiwanis, or Lions? They’re a way to build community, you don’t have to be religious, and people tend to stick with it long term.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/07/23 12:42 AM
2

I admire how intentional women tend to be in maintaining their relationships. I think it’s common for men to not pay as much attention to this.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/07/23 11:31 AM
10

For some, it’s oneitis- they’re so attracted to this woman that they can’t imagine they’d feel the same thing for someone else. Although, people should understand that’s a fallacy with age. For others it’s scarcity. They don’t think they’ll find another woman they’re interested in who’s also interested in them - but chasing the woman who doesn’t want them won’t fix that.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/23 09:45 PM
2

You mentioned that you don’t wear very feminine clothes. Do you spend a lot of time on hair and makeup? I’m a guy, and I know glamming up can make a woman more attractive to me.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/23 09:28 PM
3

I think a lot of people use nice colloquially to mean kind or benevolent.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/23 10:53 PM
0

Yeah, it’s envy, but they’d love to join the chad club.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/06/23 12:38 AM
–

Someone who hasn’t learned to handle the pain of rejection without trying to take it out on someone else.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/05/23 01:00 AM
3

Thank you. People who say they’re “nice guys” are trying to say they’re good men, and they mistakenly believe that’s enough to get them a partner.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/23 04:50 PM
8

I think that’s what a lot of guys think they’re saying when they say they’re “nice,” but now it seems like “nice guy” is widely being interpreted as disingenuous attempts at appearing kind.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/23 04:41 PM
25

Ho phase?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/23 12:13 PM
12

Here’s a thumbs up from a guy who struggles to create the “spark.”
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/23 11:37 PM
19

Desirable men have the power. Not necessarily average joes.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/05/23 05:59 PM
–

What you’re describing sounds pretty reasonable. The fear men have about AF/BB is that the woman truly desires the man she’d have sex with quickly, and the other men are destined to end up in relationships where she keeps him around mainly for his money and has rare, unenthusiastic sex with him or even full on dead bedroom.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/23 12:17 AM
3

It’s helpful to have that perspective. I think guys like me can think of saying something offensive as causing irreparable damage in the courting phase, as opposed to a minor misstep.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/23 02:39 PM
6

Also, I think men have more tolerance for overt sexuality from a woman, so if she’s forward they’re not likely to get creeped out.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/23 11:41 AM
16

It seems like that can be a delicate line to walk. Knowing what’s suggestive enough without crossing into being offensive.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/23 11:40 AM
5

I’m a Lizzy Caplan lover. Looking forward to seeing her in the Fatal Attraction remake.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/23 07:42 PM
1

You might be thinking of the Belushi brothers. Here’s a pic of Monica Bellucci: https://images.app.goo.gl/sTzsbmDUzLvhSjwi6
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/23 05:44 PM
6

Monica Bellucci
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/23 04:26 PM
2

There probably isn’t a solution.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/03/23 01:29 PM
10

Honestly, as an autistic adult, I only realize now that things like dances were ways of building necessary social skills. At the time it just sounded like something for the kids attractive enough to get dates to enjoy.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/23 04:41 PM
6

I understand the envy- if you’re a man who craves sex but finds obtaining it feels arduous and uncertain, seeing someone who seems to get it on demand can make you wish you had it that easy.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/23 11:16 PM
8

I think few people want to overtly label themselves as ugly, which would be necessary to organize in a meaningful way.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/03/23 07:09 PM
5

I’m an adult on the spectrum, and I have a reasonable number of friends and can maintain friendships, but looking back, I think my parents barely socialized me. They rarely hang out with other people themselves. I think making friends in college and grad school helped me immensely.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/03/23 03:23 PM
3

It’s a bitter pill to swallow. No one enjoys being at the lower end of the hierarchy, no matter how obvious it is that it will lead to less dating success.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/23 09:04 AM
2

I think the fear is the guy she’s already having sex with will end up the boyfriend.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/23 03:28 PM
1

In some cases it’s scarcity. They don’t think they’ll find another woman who’s as attractive to them and likes them back.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/03/23 02:09 AM
1

I should have written we didn’t end up dating long term. It ended after 3 dates.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/03/23 04:17 AM
5

I understand where you’re coming from, but I would say being shy and not outspoken is going to make it harder for any man in the dating market.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/03/23 03:56 PM
14

I actually went on a few dinner dates with a woman once, and paid each time. On the third date, we went to a movie after dinner and she offered to pay for the tickets, so I let her. Afterwards, she told me it was a test and she actually wanted me to pay for the tickets. We didn’t end up dating, and I think I dodged a bullet.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/23 11:45 PM
13

Wait a minute… is “live, laugh, love” a euphemism for a ho phase?!
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/23 03:15 AM
0

I’m not red pill, but red pill is supposed to be about working to achieve success like you’ve just described.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/23 02:12 AM
2

I grew up with a very disinterested father (well, stepfather who legally adopted me). I don’t think he really taught me anything about life, dating or otherwise. And we moved a lot, so I wasn’t around uncles who might have filled the gap. I’m on the spectrum, so I could have benefited from explicit advice on how men should pursue women.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/01/23 07:47 PM
1

Whether they’re able to succeed with more effort depends on the person, but in the case that they can’t succeed, I think the guys who are angry crave women too much to just walk away without growing resentful.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/23 08:27 PM
3

It can be hard for some men to really see those as being two sides of the same person. I’m a man who grew up religious (I’m not anymore) and in the past I struggled with the idea that a “good girl” also likes sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/23 05:47 PM
1

I like your observation that a lot of these guys genuinely fell for the girl and weren’t being cynical.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/01/23 07:08 PM
1

I think there are genuinely manipulative people out there and it seems like a leap to say any manipulation he’s observed is just nonverbal communication.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/23 02:06 PM
2

I like the one way distinction. I’ve done okay with making friends, but it didn’t teach me anything about flirting and escalating physically with women. It’s a separate skillset that requires the former but doesn’t automatically follow from it.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/23 12:06 AM
2

I’m a man, and I haven’t used OLD in a while, but I would multi-date like most people using them. However, I sometimes came across women who would try to pressure me off the bat into not talking to any other women, even though we hadn’t even gone on a date yet.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/23 12:02 AM
1

Just curious, how do you find them? Work? Meetup?
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/23 11:59 PM
2

I agree with that. I’m a man and I’m fortunate to have some male friends I can talk about emotions and life challenges with. It sucks that many men don’t.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/23 09:25 PM
2

I like this interpretation. A lot of guys didn’t end up in the friend zone through Machiavellian scheming, but they genuinely like the woman and either did a poor job conveying it or got rejected and stuck around as a friend. Ultimately, it’s his responsibility to decide if he’s okay with being a friend or he needs to move on.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/23 06:52 PM
1

Very good observation about the isolation/lack of support experienced by lots of single men.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/23 06:48 PM
3

You’d still have to deal with differences in intelligence and personality traits (e.g., neuroticism).
/r/PurplePillDebate01/01/23 02:09 AM
2

Kudos on making progress. It sounds like you’re continuing to move your life in a healthy direction.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/22 12:07 AM
7

Great username!
/r/PurplePillDebate10/12/22 11:10 PM
1

Yeah, that’s him.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/12/22 09:09 PM
1

I’m someone who isn’t adept at communicating sexual interest. I can see in the example here that going for a kiss would be better than the “cousin hug,” but would you say it’s flirting in general that makes it clear the guy is turned on by you?
/r/PurplePillDebate08/12/22 12:17 AM
8

I assume in earlier generations, especially the 1950s and before, women felt much more pressure to find a partner because they were unlikely to be able to get a career and support themselves. So, a guy could get away with less effort on being attractive because he could find someone woman who needed a husband to survive and therefore would be less stringent in vetting him.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/12/22 02:53 PM
1

🤣
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/22 11:01 PM
2

This is a tangent, but… You’re like Giancarlo Esposito - the actor famous for playing Gus Fring on Breaking Bad. His mom was a Black American opera singer and his dad was from Naples, Italy. I met him once at a convention- cool guy.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/22 05:30 PM
3

I’m just guessing, but it’s probably because being rejected by women made him feel like he wasn’t good enough, so the idea that women are also found wanting by attractive men is a way to deal with it.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/11/22 06:55 PM
5

Pit of beautiful losers- sometimes PPD can be poetic.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/11/22 03:06 PM
1

It’s when people settle down into an LTR when the weather starts to get cold.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/11/22 10:18 PM
4

I think a particular kind of person (I’m one of them) was susceptible to the mindset the OP is describing. They saw things in pop culture about women not wanting to be treated like sex objects and guys wanting only one thing, and severely over-corrected to not coming across as sexual at all. I still asked girls out - I haven’t done the hang out with a girl, never say anything about being interested in them, and then get angry they don’t suddenly fall in love with you. But in the past I was hesit…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/11/22 03:08 AM
3

Thanks for the advice- appreciate it.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/11/22 06:30 PM
4

Honestly, I don’t think I’ve ever seen up close how a guy goes from meeting a woman to dating her. My friends would just show up with girlfriends one day. I’m an autistic late bloomer who’s only in recent years internalized that the man leads (i.e, escalates) the courtship from start to finish. And also that you have to imply sexuality throughout to keep it from becoming a platonic interaction, but avoid oversexualizing too soon.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/11/22 06:01 PM
0

I definitely don’t recommend the friends first approach, but this is a good point about women generally seeing friendship as incompatible with romance at a later point, and men not necessarily having that view.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/11/22 05:56 PM
1

You’d raise your kids with Jewish traditions, but leave out belief in God? (Just curious- I’ve know some secular Jews)
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/22 11:54 PM
2

This is very well laid out, and I (an autistic man) can identify with all of it.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/11/22 01:39 AM
3

I agree in principle, but I think Chicago has a pretty robust upper middle class and is more comparable to NYC and DC than St. Louis.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/11/22 02:24 PM
5

I was out with friends of friends yesterday. We live in the DC area and a couple of us had previously lived in Chicago and someone brought up how dating was different in different cities. I (a man) mentioned that Chicago has more men than women and DC has more women than men, and that’s a big factor. One woman said how she’d read that in places (like colleges) where there’s way more women, it’s detrimental because men are less likely to pursue long term relationships. And I said it’s detrimental…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/11/22 02:09 PM
1

I think it takes maturity and equanimity to not go from despair to anger and bitterness, and not everyone has that.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/11/22 01:18 PM
2

A lot of the time women say there’s no “spark” when they’re not interested in going on more dates with someone. I believe it’s another way of saying “chemistry” or sexual tension.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/11/22 02:05 PM
1

I’m a man and I’ve had my share of not getting subsequent dates because there’s no “spark.” It’s usually after the second or third date, though.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/11/22 02:03 PM
3

The 80/20 guys are feeling anguish that they can’t be one of the men women want, and they’re responding by obsessively analyzing the reasons.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/11/22 11:45 AM
6

I won’t get too detailed, but I’m a man and I once had a therapist (man) who I know thought I was whiny, and he literally mocked me when I was talking about something that was genuinely traumatic for me. I’ve had another therapist (woman) for the past few years and she’s never reacted that way. I’m definitely not saying AMALT, but my experience with the previous therapist sucked.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/10/22 01:33 PM
1

If I could afford it, Manhattan- probably the Upper East Side.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/10/22 05:47 PM
1

I used to live in the Loop. Chicago’s wonderful(when it’s not freezing).
/r/PurplePillDebate27/10/22 05:46 PM
1

It’s interesting that you frame it that way. I take it you see the rejections you get while dating as part of the work required to eventually find someone who won’t reject you. I’m betting a lot of guys here (I’ve had this mindset at points) see the rejections they get as just a prelude to constant rejection in the future. (I’ve had some short relationships, so I know it’s not really that bleak for me personally). It’s holding out for eventual success vs fatalism.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/10/22 11:06 PM
1

I think SolidPuzzleheaded is just observing that some of these guys lose the competition- I don’t think he’s saying it’s unjust.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/10/22 07:08 PM
1

I’ve actually started to view the woman offering to pay as a sign of impending rejection because of experiences like this.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/10/22 02:36 PM
7

I’m a guy, but if you sub in atheist for the first entry, I’d agree with these criteria.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/10/22 07:26 PM
6

I think that only applies to people who have the means to be mobile and the willingness to move around. I’m not suggesting that people who haven’t found a match can’t increase their odds by expanding their search range, but everyone’s options are still finite and that finiteness imposed limitations- some people are going to end up alone.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/10/22 06:52 PM
4

But doesn’t the limited availability of compatible partners for each person imply scarcity?
/r/PurplePillDebate12/10/22 06:32 PM
7

I remember reading an article about couples where the husband was autistic and masked for years and eventually just stopped doing it. In one case the wife said she felt like her husband was disappearing.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/10/22 02:16 PM
9

Here’s an award for perfect use of “I want to go to there.”
/r/PurplePillDebate22/09/22 07:38 PM
5

That actually reminds me of when the Boston marathon bombers were caught (and one of them killed), their mother was on an interview saying “they had him!” She was objecting that the police didn’t need to kill him, even though he died in hot pursuit while firing his gun out the window.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/09/22 01:34 PM
9

OP probably thinks the preference for violent men is universal (I don’t, to be clear).
/r/PurplePillDebate29/08/22 08:29 PM
3

Would you say getting good at flirting is the main way to make it clear that you’re not just there to be her friend? This is coming from a late bloomer if the question/answer seems obvious.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/08/22 12:33 PM
5

Sexual Market Value and High Value Man
/r/PurplePillDebate22/08/22 09:13 PM
3

I like the chaos point. Life is unfair because it’s too uncontrollable to be so.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/22 10:31 PM
8

Just curious, do you think men being the initiators is hardwired by evolution and basically immutable?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/22 02:46 PM
1

She’s being ironic, but it’s the idea that hot guys are juggling multiple women and therefore taking them off the market, increasing scarcity for regular guys who’d want to date them.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/22 02:19 PM
9

I don’t know about educating women in men’s dating struggles, but I think doing something to strengthen bonds and build community among men is very much needed.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/22 09:59 PM
3

I’m in the spectrum, and I think I’ve done this. I have my own set of mannerisms and speech patterns (I definitely don’t speak in monotone) that I’ve built up over the years, and it feels authentic for me.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/22 07:50 PM
4

I’ve gotten into the habit of listening to podcasts and lectures while drawing lately. Great way to unwind.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/22 06:46 PM
10

Kudos on telling him you wanted him to kiss you. The first woman I kissed realized that I didn’t want to cross any boundaries and invited me to kiss her, and I appreciated it.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/22 10:58 PM
2

I’m not your pal, guy.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/22 01:47 PM
1

I understand that- you definitely don’t need to try to hide it, and if you find putting it in your profile is a good way of sharing that with your date, it makes sense to keep it.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/22 11:20 PM
2

Thanks for this comment. I’m glad you were able to see the strengths of the autistic men you dated. I think there’s a popular image of us as lacking in compassion.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/22 10:44 PM
1

I’m late 30s now. I’ve never put Asperger’s in my profile- I imagine some women pick up on it, but I’d rather not lead with it.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/22 10:36 PM
1

I’m currently single, but the last time I had a girlfriend was last year. I think I’ve been on a good number of dates, but they were mostly from online, so it was several dates, most of which didn’t turn into anything.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/22 10:09 PM
4

I’m also on the spectrum, moved around as a kid, and didn’t even realize what autism was until a friend in college suggested I might have it. I would have had social difficulties no matter what, but think the constant moving probably threw off my development a bit. I’m an adult with a good number of friends now, so it worked out in the end.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/22 03:14 PM
10

I’m a man who’s on the spectrum and I started having dating experience later in life. I only recently understood that flirting is generally a necessary part of setting the mood for a woman. To be clear, I understood the value of things like playfulness and affection, because I like those myself. But I would be kind of baffled when, say, characters in movies spent so much time on innuendo and indirect allusions, not realizing that’s what turns women on.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/22 03:08 PM
1

Would you have a crush on Furio?
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/22 07:15 PM
3

Betabux- a guy who gets a woman by providing for her financially.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/07/22 08:27 PM
1

Another guy getting the girl he’s pursuing.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/22 06:38 PM
2

I’m mainly here for the discussion. I’m male and on the spectrum, and I like hearing people discuss the details of dating in a very explicit and detailed way - in real life I think people tend to be more vague and assume you share certain subtext that doesn’t need to be spelled out (which for neurotypicals with lots of dating experience, it probably doesn’t).
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/22 11:12 PM
4

I agree with MamaTR and platinirisms. However, it’s only in recent years I’ve heard (on the internet) people using “nice” to mean “placating,” whereas I always thought it was pretty close to meaning “kind.”
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/22 02:50 PM
1

Don Jon
/r/PurplePillDebate13/07/22 11:40 PM
4

I wonder if she conflated her attraction to you with an emotional connection.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/07/22 03:58 PM
1

Maybe it depends on the type of stare. I’m betting some guys look with reverence, while others leer. Of course it’s better to avoid staring at anyone.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/06/22 02:00 PM
116

There are plenty of women I’m not attracted to that I respect and admire. When I was in grad school, I did an internship at a national lab, and one of my advisers there was a much older woman who is a very accomplished computer scientist- she definitely has my admiration.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/06/22 05:44 PM
5

I’m definitely someone who’s hesitated with women for fear of being too forward, and in recent years finally internalized that the male role in dating requires a certain amount of forwardness.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/22 01:38 PM
1

Strongly agree with this. “Social skills” is a big umbrella, and flirting is a very specific skill.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/22 09:36 PM
2

As someone who’s often hesitated to approach out of fear it would be unwelcome, this is a very helpful reframing.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/04/22 12:06 PM
1

Good flair
/r/PurplePillDebate30/03/22 02:31 PM
2

I’d been meaning to post that this year I joined my local Rotary club, and I’m enjoying it. We do weekly meetings with guest speakers, volunteering, and a happy hour every month. I sometimes see mentions here of social atomization, and I think the drop in participation in voluntary organizations like Rotary is a part of that (Robert Putnam’s famous for observing this in Bowling Alone). I think it’d be great if service clubs became popular again.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/03/22 01:42 PM
5

I’m on the spectrum, and I’ve definitely been a late bloomer when it comes to dating. I’m in my 30s, and i’ve had a couple of girlfriends, but nowhere near the amount of experience most people I know have. I think a lot of the things guys learn through trial and error, specifically how to pursue women, flirt, and escalate physically, I’ve needed explicit advice on. And I think neurotypical people can pick up on subtle cues for when a woman is ready to get physical, but I’ve often hesitated and m…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/22 01:57 PM
1

I think the common idea here is that a small percentage of men (the very attractive ones) are getting multiple women as casual sex partners.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/22 09:11 PM
2

I’m not angry about it, but as I commented in another thread, in theory, it makes me wonder if it will be generally difficult to date women I find attractive if I have to be superior to them in some way. However, I have dated women I was attracted to, so I know empirically that I’m not doomed.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/22 01:21 PM
2

I can agree that hot people are the ones who have to compromise least.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/03/22 08:51 PM
5

I think it gets upsetting for men if they think hypergamy means they have to dip down to women they don’t find attractive to get women who want them. But if the man’s very attractive it’s a nonissue.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/03/22 05:22 PM
2

Drawing, running, and foreign languages.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/03/22 02:50 PM
0

I'd just comment that whoever called OP a "nice guy" probably meant it as synonymous with "good guy" or "decent guy." I think the internet version of "nice" as a neutral or either negative trait is kind of new, and I doubt anyone who means this (fake) "Nice Guy TM" version is going around calling people that to their faces.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/02/22 05:46 PM
2

To each their own. If you're mathematically inclined, algorithm design is like solving puzzles. It's not endless drudgery for the people who enjoy it.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/10/21 01:00 PM
1

After all the "nice" discussions I've seen online, I really wonder what people think when they use the word. I have a feeling you mean obsequious and overly deferential, but I think most people who describe themselves as nice just mean considerate and kind.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/21 12:30 AM
4

Afraid to make women uncomfortable? Wanting explicit consent? Are you me?! I've been dating more lately - I've even been seeing a girl for a couple of months - and fortunately I've become less self conscious about this.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/21 12:10 AM
2

I think public speaking classes could help for timidity, but probably wouldn't teach you how to flirt. I'd say asking male friends for tips or YouTube dating coaches are where you can get flirting specific advice.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/09/21 07:02 PM
7

It's not rest, it's non-existence. There's no longer any "you" to feel rested.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/09/21 01:56 PM
–

Did yesterday's hypergamy question get removed?
/r/PurplePillDebate13/09/21 12:56 PM
–

I think the main reason men get upset by it is the fear that if all women want "better," then they'll never measure up. They're essentially afraid of being completely locked out of the possibility of matching up with women they're attracted to, or even any women at all.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/09/21 08:44 PM
2

So, I read PPD constantly but I've only posted a couple times before - I'm a late 30s late bloomer on the spectrum and after getting vaccinated I've gotten back into dating via Bumble. I'm getting more experience, but I still have a tendency to hesitate for fear of making a move too soon. I recently dated a woman for a little over a month - we had drinks on the first date, on the second I took her to dinner in her neighborhood and we went for a walk that just happened to end at her house and we …
/r/PurplePillDebate20/08/21 03:17 PM
3

I think 4D-Alien is talking about the experience of guys who consistently get rejected, and can't seem to find any woman who's interested in them. When experiencing that, they really start to wonder what it is they're doing wrong, and find that the kind of anodyne things he listed aren't really going to make women find them attractive.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/21 04:03 PM
2

I see people on PPD occasionally referring to genetic inferiority, and this is straight eugenics talk. The logical consequence of this kind of thinking is that nations with shorter people are populated by the genetically inferior.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/21 07:30 PM
2

Thanks, this is helpful.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/21 07:03 PM
1

I commented below, and I'm a guy who's getting more comfortable with escalating. This may be TMI, but I'm not a virgin and I have a little dating experience, but I tend to be apprehensive when I first meet a woman because I don't want to violate any boundaries- after she and I kiss, make out, etc., I don't worry anymore because I know she's comfortable with me. I actually had an experience years ago where I tried to kiss a girl and she freaked out, and later revealed she wouldn't allow anyone to…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/21 06:25 PM
1

I get the impression most women want men to just escalate without asking (and are turned off by asking), but you clearly don't like getting physical early on. Out of curiosity, do the men you move forward with generally ask before getting physical?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/21 06:14 PM
1

Honestly, I've been the same historically. I'm still getting used to escalating without knowing for certain I have their permission.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/21 06:10 PM
2

I'm a late bloomer man, and I've only become aware of this very recently, primarily from watching dating coaches on YouTube explain that the way I was behaving on dates was wrong. I genuinely didn't realize that physical touch and innuendo were how you get your date to see you as a potential lover instead of a friend. I think I also had a fear of violating boundaries and I imagined the average woman to be kind of prudish, and ironically ended up behaving like a prude myself.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/21 01:14 PM
1

This is kind of on a tangent, but something I've thought about with the "nice guy" question is how I think many people - and perhaps the average man in particular - aren't super precise with their language, and will colloquially use "nice" and "kind" as near synonyms. I know if I heard someone say "he's a nice guy" before having been exposed to the Nice Guy TM meme, I would have assumed they meant he was a good person and overall treated people well. But I notice in these online discussions, "ni…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/21 01:25 PM
5

I'm 5' 6, and back in grad school, I briefly dated 2 women who were taller than me (they were probably like 5'7 or 5'8). I met them both on Match.com. Lately I've used Bumble and Hinge, and I swipe right on women I like whether or not they're taller than me. I can remember going on a date with one who was taller about a year ago, but most of the women I get dates with are a little shorter than me. In terms of asking out in person, I wouldn't be deterred because of height, but I'm aware a lot of …
/r/PurplePillDebate06/06/21 02:11 PM
9

This is an interesting point. Usually when I hear "personality," I think things like extroversion or having an overall positive outlook, but "playful flirtatious banter" is an important factor.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/06/21 06:36 PM
11

This is a great point, and it's something I've been trying to consciously work on. I think people often use the umbrella "social skills" without pointing out that the social skills for getting along with friends are very distinct from the skills for pursuing a partner. I'm a nerdy high-functioning ASD man, and I've had some dating success here and there, but looking back, I had way more experiences of going on dates and the woman not feeling a spark or chemistry, but us ending up as friends. I r…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/06/21 05:47 PM
5

I'm a late bloomer man in my mid 30's, and historically, my main problems have been: Getting dates - although after moving to a metro area with more women than men I'm doing better on dating sites. Knowing how to flirt and when to escalate - in particular, I have a history of hesitating to make a move for fear of violating the woman's boundaries. Women not feeling a spark - this is probably a direct consequence of the previous bullet. I recently dated a woman for a couple of months and we got al…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/21 01:43 PM
1

I think "polite indifference" is really lowering the bar on what counts as human decency. To use an extreme example, there was that video a few months back of the two men working in the lobby of a NYC hotel who saw an elderly Asian woman being beaten and stood there and watched. They called an ambulance when the attacker left, but I think their not intervening while it was happening was indecent because it was indifferent. I know you're talking about the way people behave in non-crisis situation…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/21 04:12 PM
3

I'll start off by mentioning that I lift weights, but you can be someone who doesn't lift weights without being flabby and gelatinous. And he could reasonably think he doesn't have to look like a Disney prince or an actor for the same reason the average woman shouldn't feel the need to look like an Instagram model. And also, some rock stars aren't that great looking.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/21 07:07 PM
6

I'm sure he was aware that being muscular was attractive, but just didn't realize how decisive muscles could be - i.e., he's suprised that they can be the difference between having reasonable success with women and not getting dates at all.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/21 07:01 PM
1

This is very helpful. I appreciate how you're breaking down the most likely outcomes, and the way inaction is perceived - I wish I'd realized this years earlier. It's interesting, I've had times where I froze and didn't try anything physical out of fear my date would get upset, but that probably just led to a boring and forgettable date for her.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/21 11:39 AM
1

Thanks for the reply. I'm glad you and your boyfriend are making it work. I was specifically thinking more of intuition regarding when to make a move physically. Since you don't mention that, is it safe to say shyness didn't get in the way for him?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/21 11:31 AM
1

It's interesting you mention that. I'm the oldest brother of two, so I didn't have a sibling with more experience to ask. And I actually grew up in an Army family, so we weren't around my cousins and eventually settled far away from all of my relatives. I think I missed out on a lot of the socialization that comes from being around extended family. In my 20s I would talk to friends about the women I was going out with, and a lot of the time I was waiting for some sort of feeling of certainty tha…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/21 11:27 AM
1

This makes sense, and I think it's a good mindset to have. Something I've wondered about is how to account for variations in how fast different women would want to go. I mentioned how the first woman I ever tried to kiss froze with a kind of frightened expression and told me she wasn't comfortable with kissing or any kind of intimacy ever - not just with me, but with anyone. I remember telling her I'd eventually want to have sex, and she said "I wouldn't do that for anyone." Friends I told this …
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/21 12:43 PM
1

Thanks, I really identify with this. I've had the same fear you describe of making my date uncomfortable, but you're right that it's generally expected for you to make a move eventually so the fear is overblown.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/21 12:26 PM
1

Thanks, this is helpful.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/21 12:24 PM
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