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yangtastic Archive

View 7 posts and 151 comments by yangtastic on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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5

Poe's law strikes again!
/r/PussyPass14/06/20 09:52 PM
15

Poe's law strikes again!
/r/PussyPass14/06/20 09:52 PM
1

This misses the point entirely. The question isn't even whether everybody who self-identifies as a feminist hates men, the question is, how do the actions of explicitly feminist organizations and lobbyists affect men's lives and rights?
/r/MensRights14/09/15 10:20 PM
2

Hey dude, I've been out of town for the holiday and didn't log in for a while. However, as somebody who has some sentiments that are very similar to yours, my thinking on race in America has changed a lot over the years. I hear where you're coming from, I know that feel bro, and I'm not saying that the shit we hear coming from African American Studies departments is on target, but I think there's some actual shit going on with being black in America, even if nobody's talking about it. Let me kno…
/r/PussyPass27/05/15 06:32 PM
19

These texts, wrought with histories and narratives of exclusion and oppression, can be difficult to read and discuss as a survivor, a person of color, or a student from a low-income background. Well we certainly wouldn't want an Ivy League education to be difficult, now would we?
/r/PussyPass22/05/15 08:03 AM
1

I'm really curious about how exactly you define "oppression".
/r/MensRights25/03/15 09:13 AM
3

Don't have a ton of time, but I wrote something about a week ago that sharply disagrees with your points about patriarchy and "direct oppression" here. It's actually precisely my study of gender relations outside of modern first world countries that convinced me that "patriarchy" was an oversimplified narrative. Athens happened, yes, but the idea that a Spartan man's relationship to his wife even remotely resembled his relationship to his slaves or his helots, let alone so much as to warrant the…
/r/MensRights24/03/15 10:48 PM
2

Hey dude, so the numbers I was talking about are the level of the whole damn evolutionary history of the species. The source of the data comes from like, genetic genealogy studies and stuff. Near as we can figure from looking at the genome, humans have twice as many female ancestors as male. The numbers I've heard is that roughly 80% of all female humans to ever live have reproduced, and roughly 40% of all male humans to ever live have reproduced. So yeah, a woman is twice as likely to be a "win…
/r/MensRights15/03/15 06:49 AM
1

Sorry, tired, heading out to weekend plans. 95% sure I'm citing a Karen Straughan/girlwriteswhat secondary source, 5% chance I'm thinking of some E. Belfort Bax primary source I was reading last week. The source indicated that first wave feminists campaigned for female... thieves? to be spared the punishment for stealing, which at the time was like, 40 lashes or something.
/r/MensRights15/03/15 01:26 AM
4

I mean... how does voting improve your life? Seriously. It's all just lobbyists now. Women in most places were treated like property in a lot of places for centuries Yes to Athens, but no to Sparta. Roman women couldn't vote, but they paid no taxes. I wrote a fairly long post here about relative privilege, with, yannow, details and citations and nuance and stuff. At the end of the day, though, you have a better chance of influencing American politics by using the money you save not paying taxes …
/r/MensRights14/03/15 02:28 PM
347

What advantages do men have over women in first world countries? Seriously. Shortly after being born, part of their body is commonly cut off without their consent. Boys have massive problems in school that start as early elementary--no role models, policies that punish and pathologize normal behavior, curriculum that doesn't match their development. Unsurprisingly, as a result women dominate college in spite of unofficial affirmative action that almost every college engages in as a desperate att…
/r/MensRights14/03/15 02:22 PM
1

Women are still considered a minority So... women aren't really a minority anywhere except China, which also bears the distinction of being the only country on the planet where women kill themselves more than men. Now, you'll say, "You know what I meant!" and I certainly do, but I would strongly encourage you--if you really care this stuff, and I sincerely believe that you do--to ask yourself why you'd make that particular slip of the tongue. Who has been framing your thinking on these topics? W…
/r/MensRights24/02/15 12:02 AM
4

First wave feminism criminalized alcohol, prostitution, and birth control. This really shouldn't be all that surprising from a group calling itself the Women's Christian Temperance Union. So I wouldn't necessarily call it unalloyed progress. It's an advocacy movement, with lots of unintended consequences. Feminism may not require hating men, but it does require swallowing patriarchy theory, which does make it harder to engage meaningfully with men's issues or accomplishing further progress.
/r/MensRights23/02/15 10:36 PM
1

As Grubnar is indicating, they are in fact, different, and here's how. "Feminism" is usually a moving target, and any WS course worth its salt will usually punt in the direction of talking about "feminisms", plural, to keep it a moving target, or will stay on message, hammering the "feminism means you think people should be treated equally" talking points. However, across all waves and flavors of feminism, there is a constant, which is patriarchy theory. If you don't buy patriarchy theory, if yo…
/r/MensRights23/02/15 10:08 PM
8

Right, but can you do so while committed to patriarchy theory? Because that's what separates feminists from egalitarians. Seriously, if you really, really believe that Male Privilege (not "Some Men" privilege, not "Real Man" privilege) exists, and that "The history of mankind is a history of repeated injuries and usurpation on the part of man toward woman, having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over her," don't you think that that might make it harder to engage meaningf…
/r/MensRights23/02/15 09:41 PM
1

Are you advancing the claim that women dress "for themselves" in the same way that they dress for dates? Or are you advancing the claim that women do not bear a social burden to dress up for dates? Or are you advancing the claim that the dressing for dates costs exactly the same as dressing "for themselves"?
/r/MensRights08/02/15 04:53 AM
-1

Consider that women make as much as men but men still have the obligation of paying for the date for the most part. Indeed, but women also spend waaay more on clothes and appearance. This schism is deep-seated, and probably isn't going anywhere.
/r/MensRights06/02/15 09:27 PM
1

I also recommend Why Men Earn More by him, if you can find it.
/r/MensRights06/02/15 09:26 PM
1

Lots of that was news to me, but I do know that first wavers were also very much against Sanger, Planned Parenthood, and birth control.
/r/MensRights06/02/15 09:23 PM
1

Short on time, mate, but I'm in my early 30s also, I work in education, I'm an egalitarian with an interracial marriage with severely inverted gender roles, and as such, I'm committed to the claim that currently at least, the most egalitarian thing you can do is be an MRA. Here's something decent I wrote recently.
/r/MensRights06/02/15 09:12 PM
3

A good portion of these "downvotes" are also just inherent in reddit's system--automatically added. This mechanism is what ages posts, such that new things have an advantage in making it to the front page over old things.
/r/MensRights06/02/15 09:03 PM
-14

Have an upvote, because I don't think what you're saying is so odious. That said, the opposite of love isn't hate, it's apathy. The problem isn't that people hate men, no indeed, that would be caring too much. It's that they don't give a shit. That's why you're getting downvoted when you talk about getting job offers walking down the street. And sure, while Norah Vincent's story is interesting and nuanced, she does explicitly say, "Men are suffering. They have different problems than women have,…
/r/MensRights15/01/15 12:14 PM
7

Dude, this whole entire thread is filled with people who came here after they got a more full and thorough understanding of "what feminism is". Contrary to popular belief, most people here do not have an ignorance problem, and you will not be able to engage them or influence any of their thinking if you start with condescendingly assuring them that they have no fucking clue what they're talking about.
/r/MensRights10/09/14 07:41 PM
5

Well, you'll notice you haven't been banned here. So that should tell you something. However, dude, as an egalitarian, I have to say you're missing a couple of things, and that's why you're getting downvoted. First, yeah, I'm right there with you, there are no men's rights or women's rights or black rights or gay rights, only human rights. People do not derive their rights from membership in a group, they derive them as individual human beings. Cool. Problem is, people are denied their rights as…
/r/MensRights10/09/14 07:37 PM
2

Hey, welcome to the subreddit. I don't post here much these days because although I'm fairly outraged at the things I see here, I don't have a ton of energy for activism since building positive things in my own life consumes much of my energy. I can tell you that I'm engaged, in a relationship with inverted gender roles, and that my fiancée and I are helped vastly more by what we've learned here (and what we learned in our neuroscience and other courses) than what I learned in my WS studies. I c…
/r/MensRights20/08/14 04:50 PM
0

Almost all of the attention has been on the girls. Your standard article on the subject has about a dozen pictures of the girls, a handful of police lines or news vans, maybe two at the bottom of the guy he randomly shot, Chris Martinez, and none of the three Asian men he (allegedly) stabbed with malice aforethought. The result of all this? I'm busy, so I can't look up a ton of examples, but I saw this one earlier today. I'm sure it's not rare.
/r/MensRights27/05/14 03:05 AM
13

Uh... not all women are feminists. In fact, not even most women are feminists. "Feminism", as frequently attacked in this subreddit, refers to specific ideas which are espoused by groups of people which consist primarily but not only of women, and which then attempt to codify those ideas into both law and social convention. Those groups, namely the lobbyists, are espousing propositional content that is harmful to the welfare of men (frequently also of families, children, and even women who actua…
/r/MensRights26/01/14 10:30 PM
2

What aspects of "male privilege" would not be better described as "Real Man" privilege?
/r/MensRights29/12/13 07:00 PM
2

Can't donate eggs past 32. It's hardly imaginary. Apart from the metaphorical market, there's a very literal market and a very real expiration date in that market.
/r/MensRights23/12/13 04:44 AM
3

I don't know how directly this relates to your point--not really an agree or disagree, maybe more at right angles to it--but I work in education, and have been working on acquiring a decent house-husband skillset since I got engaged to an orthopedic surgeon recently. I've come to the conclusion that domestic work is very much like teaching. As a job, it's incredibly easy to do, but it is equally incredibly difficult to do well. So when Friedan was writing, household appliances had just given fin…
/r/MensRights23/12/13 04:22 AM
-1

First, I hope you got far enough through my message to see that I'm tracking the ways in which gay couples are discriminated against, and that that's more important. I wish society developed strong civil unions instead, but that's not how the problem is going to be solved. Would you allow gay marriage if they agreed to never have children? No. They should have a civil union. So should straight people. It would be great if we managed to crowbar a little separation between the decision to form a d…
/r/MensRights20/12/13 03:52 PM
1

Sure... but you're talking about apples and oranges. It's not a fair comparison.
/r/MensRights20/12/13 03:32 PM
2

Yeah, it's really tough. Nobody actually ever gets the ideal picture--and I hope you saw in my original post that I'm aware of that and looking for real world harm reduction. Of course, if we look at it from the other hand, do we really think that everybody should have kids? Of course not. So even if "the perfect picture is just a pipe dream", some amount of striving in some direction is a good thing to have as a social value. In fact, you yourself haven't stopped striving just because the perfe…
/r/MensRights20/12/13 03:31 PM
5

So... a father's financial contributions are more significant than their parenting contributions? Children don't actually need their fathers as long as their mothers make enough money? I know I'm being a dick, but do you see where I'm going with this? There are a lot of assumptions in here that are shit that we fight against...except when this topic comes up.
/r/MensRights20/12/13 03:07 PM
1

Right, so... if you read my long post, you'll see that none of your points are lost on me, and I characterized the discrimination against gays (because of we don't have a robust system of civil unions, legally or culturally) "fucking atrocious".
/r/MensRights20/12/13 03:02 PM
1

This actually isn't that crazy. Why should single people support other grown-ass adults?
/r/MensRights20/12/13 03:00 PM
3

Absolutely. It's not a huge concern of mine--I work in education, and we absolutely have waaay bigger fish to fry. I was just trying to point out that some of the stuff the MRM is strongly for (the value of fatherhood, etc.) are incompatible with the gay marriage narrative as it stands today, largely due to the influence of feminists fucking around in the LGBT movement, as another well-voted comment in that thread said. And yes, I agree with your analysis. It's tough, though. Adoption... well, t…
/r/MensRights20/12/13 06:21 AM
-4

Or rather, that regardless of "need", children exist--and it would be great if there was something that they could derive benefit from.
/r/MensRights20/12/13 05:44 AM
3

No, I'm saying that I wish marriage were still a social institution for the raising of children, (or that any such institution existed) but acknowledging that this is not the case.
/r/MensRights20/12/13 05:42 AM
8

I'll probably get downvoted, but I'm an egalitarian who doesn't support gay marriage--sort of. From an idealistic perspective, I pretty much was raised without a father, and I was STILL uncovering bullshit from it in my late 20s. Haven't found anything recently, but I bet if I have a son, I'll have to be really careful to make sure I don't pass on the bullshit to him. Either fatherhood is inherently valuable, or it isn't. If it is, it cannot be the case that nothing is lost when you've got two m…
/r/MensRights20/12/13 05:33 AM
11

Big upboat. This stuff is just gawker-style clickbaiting. Anger sells clicks more than anything else, so... there you have it. Poor bastard is probably starving, thanks to all that apexual/unexamined "Real Man" privilege stuff. Ironically, motherfucker probably needs the MRM to succeed more than most.
/r/MensRights05/12/13 04:01 AM
1

That is not my argument. I would be happy to explain it, and its relevance, if you will address my direct questions. Otherwise, you see, you look very much like a troll.
/r/MensRights22/07/13 05:52 AM
1

Thanks!
/r/MensRights22/07/13 05:43 AM
1

OK, so... in every other species on the planet, the gender with the greater biological investment and exposure to risk is the one that's the gatekeeper for sex. It's literally the biological economics, also, not hormones. Female hyenas have so much testosterone that they develop relatively large clits that are even termed "pseudopenises", and yet males still compete for females, because growing a living being inside your body is still a huge fucking deal. By contrast, I remember there's some spe…
/r/MensRights22/07/13 05:04 AM
0

I buy your claim, but I'm wondering what all the sources are so I can pass 'em on to folks who don't.
/r/MensRights22/07/13 04:50 AM
7

So first off, yeah, most of us here are egalitarians, and simply recognize that in the current cultural context of Western democracies in the 21st century, full-throated Men's Rights Activism is the most egalitarian thing you can do in most situations. As other folks have noted, a good number of the most significant contributors to /r/MensRights are women. So you're definitely welcome here. EDIT: There's also /r/LadyMRAs, though it's not as active. As for rape culture, sure, I agree with you abo…
/r/MensRights17/07/13 02:38 AM
1

Oh? Could you point me to some more stuff on this?
/r/MensRights22/05/13 05:05 AM
3

Dude, I'm an educational consultant, and I'm here to tell you that you need to keep your fucking head down, man. You're male, and you're a kid, so you're a member of not one but two oppressed groups. I hope to god you're not also black. Keep learning, keep working on writing, but do not go public with this stuff at least until you get into college. You are simply not yet strong enough to withstand the attacks that will come your way. In an ideal world, we could stick to our ideals under all circ…
/r/MensRights07/05/13 08:19 PM
10

Achilles in Vietnam by Jonathan Shay is an excellent discussion of PTSD that approaches the issue from multiple angles: literature, psychology, classical anthropology, personal narrative... It was extremely helpful to me personally in dealing with an ex-girlfriend's PTSD that resulted from being about a block away from ground zero on 9/11. It was also helpful to my buddy Bruce, who came back from Iraq without a labrum in one of his hips and psychologically... not OK. Indeed, there are female vet…
/r/MensRights04/04/13 06:20 AM
2

I feel like I turned out fine. Sure, and 93% of Americans believe themselves to be in the top 50% of driving skill. And... if men and women are different, and if fathers are inherently valuable, or if mothers are inherently valuable, then it cannot also be the case that nothing is lost in a situation that lacks either male or female role models. To look at it another way, how do you feel about paternity suits? If a guy doesn't want kids, but a woman breaks an explicitly stated agreement to get a…
/r/MensRights23/02/13 11:54 AM
56

If somebody merely attempts suicide, you can still help them. If somebody actually succeeds, you can't. One is clearly worse than the other, and admitting it doesn't detract from the fact that they're both very bad.
/r/MensRights09/02/13 05:57 PM
7

Link? I missed it.
/r/MensRights22/01/13 03:19 PM
1

Bummer. Well, if you come across it again, send it my way, I'd like to be able to use it.
/r/MensRights27/12/12 03:24 PM
2

That's a great stat. Could you dig up the source for me please?
/r/MensRights27/12/12 04:47 AM
4

Make sure to upvote the crazy so people can actually see it. This is fucking priceless right here.
/r/MensRights17/11/12 10:49 PM
1

Lots of folks have said a bunch of stuff, so I'll be brief. People deserve their rights as individuals, but they are denied their rights as groups. There are no real men's rights, women's rights, black rights, gay rights, etc., just human rights. That said, without advocacy movements, social change would be unlikely to occur. So... they have their place--namely consciousness raising and so on. Female advocacy has been a big deal for like 50 years now. Men simply have not experienced an analogous…
/r/MensRights13/11/12 10:35 AM
1

Here's the thing: you don't date statistics. All you need is one. Now, that said, you can't ignore the realities that statistics describe, and you can't just think that the stats don't apply to you or the girl you've fallen for because you're "special". You have to have an actual reason. That said, reasons abound. Yassee, this feminist horseshit isn't natural. It doesn't have millions of years of evolution behind it. Gender is older than the goddamn species, remember? Yin and Yang is powerful mo…
/r/MensRights11/11/12 11:34 PM
1

Right here. Maybe I misread you? http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/x4vop/this_needs_to_stop_now/c5k4vp3
/r/MensRights27/07/12 12:58 PM
2

ROFL Jesus. I didn't realize I was getting trolled. Ok, ok, ok. Just on the off chance that you're not, and you actually earnestly are here in /MensRights in good faith and so on... I'm genuinely curious... How exactly, in western democracies, in the 21st century, do men oppress women?
/r/MensRights27/07/12 07:32 AM
1

And... what do you propose, then, to correct the public perception that men are morally inferior to women?
/r/MensRights27/07/12 07:16 AM
1

I'm... looking again, and... really don't think people are saying they wouldn't jump in front of the bullets. They just don't think it should be taken for granted, or that it should be the only saving grace of men who are run down because of things that aren't necessarily their fault, like being divorced.
/r/MensRights27/07/12 05:50 AM
1

This is why, although it's got the limitations of any advocacy movement, the MRM is so much better than most. It's MUCH more interdisciplinary and doesn't hate evolutionary biology.
/r/MensRights27/07/12 05:07 AM
3

Right, but you've got the race analogy backwards. It's not "black people doing bad things", it's more like saying "white people doing bad things". In the 60s. Sure, lots of people assume the other way, thinking that men inherently have the upper hand and are just trying to keep the wimmenz down, but that's precisely what we need to correct. If not this way, how? I'm not sworn to WBB posts; I view them as a more of a necessary...evil's too strong a word... unpleasantness, maybe? How else do we co…
/r/MensRights27/07/12 02:32 AM
1

I'm absolutely hammering, but I'm hammering the idea that women can be evil. Not that they are. There's an important difference, and it's one that society at large does not make. The societal bias is that "women aren't evil" so therefore they can't be. See: conviction rates, sentencing discounts, etc. etc. The way to counteract this is... yes, to hammer.
/r/MensRights26/07/12 07:05 PM
1

The "women being bad" posts actually have a decent argument behind them. The idea is that there is an extant prejudice in society, namely that people assume men to be morally inferior to women. See the airline policies that assume all men are pedophiles, etc. etc. etc. As such, the WBB posts are "consciousness raising", an attempt to reprogram ourselves as much as anybody else to stop viewing women as inherently innocent. Women ARE the majority of sex traffickers. Women DO commit the vast majori…
/r/MensRights26/07/12 03:09 PM
1

girlwriteswhat had a great youtube rant about this. Sure, there's tons of feminists who are committed to some nice, humanist construction of feminist. It's still an inherently gendered work that skews their thinking, but their bullshit will tend to be rooted in ignorance rather than malice. The problem is that those feminists don't have any power. Those feminists don't have any organization. All the power, all the organization, all the influence, belongs to hold-overs from second-wave, man-hatin…
/r/MensRights26/07/12 02:50 PM
1

Eh, as somebody who's probably been "sexually assaulted" or some damn thing by somebody I knew, I get it. Also, I've dated girls who've had similar experiences. Lemme see if I can explain it. You know this guy, you have a relationship of some sort, and he's not pressuring, there's no discussion, he's just going for it. It comes out of nowhere in your mind and in that moment, (though in retrospect, shit could have been murky) and you don't want to make a big fuss, or to call your friend a goddamn…
/r/MensRights18/07/12 10:59 AM
0

I thought this was a pretty eloquent and broadly accessible starting point that's difficult to find fault with, except insofar as it doesn't go far enough. Think I might send this to my girlfriend presently, since she's not a humanities nerd and doesn't reject traditional gender roles much, but her sister's a fairly rampaging feminist.
/r/MensRights18/07/12 08:15 AM
1

Ok, so gay people are born gay. To what extent are straight people born straight?
/r/MensRights17/07/12 05:12 PM
1

Read the whole thing. Had some thoughts, but first... Are you committed to the claim that gay men are born gay? Do their parents and other environmental factors turn them gay? Or do they choose to be gay?
/r/MensRights16/07/12 04:37 AM
2

So... lots of people are talking to you all over the place, some folks... are maybe a bit angry and trying to catch flies with vinegar. I did have a couple questions, though. I understand your objectification argument. What else do you consider to be the valid feminist concerns in western democracies in the 21st century? Do you agree that "chairman" and "spokesman" and even "mailman" were all words that were not gender neutral, that carried with them certain assumptions, and that needed to be ch…
/r/MensRights15/07/12 01:57 AM
1

Could somebody please be so awesome as to hook me up with a source for that I'm reminded of how violent crimes happen to men four times that of sexual assaults to women. quotation?
/r/MensRights26/05/12 12:27 AM
0

Yep. That's the point.
/r/MensRights13/04/12 04:42 PM
1

Not sure who's being proud of anything. SRS encouraged somebody to kill themselves. I don't see anything wrong with calling that what it is or drawing attention to it.
/r/MensRights12/04/12 07:46 PM
-6

Perhaps a bit meta, but it was too on-point to not at least run up the flagpole.
/r/MensRights12/04/12 04:13 PM
1

What are those benefits?
/r/MensRights07/04/12 04:37 AM
2

Thanks, and sure, mate. Just give some sort of citation or head-nod to my stuff, then go nuts with whatever commentary or further thoughts you might have.
/r/MensRights05/04/12 05:18 AM
2

<3 Thanks! Been thinking about it. But really, if the guy I wrote this for reads it and actually understands the MRM a little bit better, that's all I was hoping for.
/r/MensRights04/04/12 01:26 AM
3

No, we aren't fighting for the same thing at all. Feminism isn't about equality. "Chairman", "spokesman", and "stewardess" are not gender-neutral words, and neither is "feminism". Rather, feminism is about female advocacy. Conversely, the MRM is about male advocacy. Now, back in the day, female advocacy was a great idea. Just watch some early seasons of Mad Men. Unexamined centuries of cultural bullshit are bad news. The problem is that there has been a women's rights movement. For decades. It's…
/r/MensRights03/04/12 07:56 AM
3

THAT'S NOT FEMINISM. our enemy is essentially the same sigh I've had these discussions before, in extenso. Here's some links from a couple years ago. One's angry. It's not directed at you. You do seem nice. We do want you here. But yeah. There are plenty of us who are nice, who love women, who have done allll the things you say to do: hanging out in the subreddit, reading feminist literature, talking to women, etc. etc. etc. Hell, we also live with women, work with them... And, at the end of the…
/r/MensRights26/03/12 08:46 AM
8

I read it about 8 to 10 years ago when I was in college. Moreover, my girlfriend read it, used it to crush some papers, kept thinking about it as she went about her life. Also read Why Men Earn More. Her overall summation a few years later? "Warren Farrell changed my life."
/r/MensRights11/03/12 06:38 PM
5

Er... if a man does want children... wouldn't getting married be the best path toward the few pathetic reproductive rights men can ever get? Is there a better way to have children? Surrogates and egg donors don't seem to be a viable solution. If we're committed to the claim that children deeply need relationships with their fathers, doesn't it also stand to reason that they would similarly need relationships with their mothers?
/r/MensRights02/06/11 05:23 AM
3

Jesus. "At last"? This has been true for years. This is the book you should read if you want to really understand the wage gap in detail. Farrell is careful to compare apples to apples and take into account part time work, etc.
/r/MensRights05/09/10 04:47 PM
1

To winning the peace. I say, lurk and absorb as much as you can if you want, but participate also. Gender isn't a pure social construct, no matter what feminists say. Men and women are wired differently, ergo... men and women together will tend to work better for most tasks than either just men or just women.
/r/MensRights22/07/10 10:00 PM
1

I'm gonna leave the hard-wiredness of being gay to the side for a moment. Different societies have very different ideas about what it means to be of female or male gender. Um... Source? We need significant variation, not a strange, isolated aberration like a tribe off on an island somewhere, and we need "very different," not insignificant bullshit like Italian guys can get away with wearing silk and pastels. We need something like a successful civilization in which it was not the role of most me…
/r/MensRights16/04/10 08:29 PM
4

I appreciate that you bring your game in good faith, crypto, even though I almost always disagree with you. Here's the thing. If we're literally talking about the same work, just at a lower price, that's not sex discrimination. It's just that a particular demographic is willing to accept a lower wage because the Patriarchy has mind-fucked them or whatever. A company could also hire enough gay male black Jews to make such a discrimination suit more difficult. Maybe it cuts the labor cost advantag…
/r/MensRights15/04/10 05:24 PM
17

It's a bad comparison because the MRA stuff I see cites the Census Bureau and the CDC to explode the myth of the wage gap and the monolithic vision of DV as pure wife-beating, as opposed to the NOW website, which tends to cite more problematic sources, like the "Institute for Women's Policy Research," or the "American Association of University Women." Hell, even the DoJ statistics on DV are shit compared to the CDC numbers if we look even cursorily at the chilling effect of societal expectations…
/r/MensRights15/04/10 10:38 AM
20

Yes and no. N.O.W.'s website has a bunch of bullshit about race and lesbian rights, which they toss in there to bolster their narrative about the straight white anglo-saxon protestant male oppressor. They especially like to conflate race and gender, which sweeps things like the biological reasons for things like the wage gap or the gender distribution of the homeless population under the rug . We don't want to go down that road of intellectual sloppiness. The problem is that people deserve right…
/r/MensRights18/03/10 07:24 PM
2

No, I'm very, very dense, so I'd thoroughly appreciate more clarification. How exactly was I misconstruing your argument?
/r/MensRights08/03/10 11:41 PM
4

Sincere apologies if I've miscast your arguments. What exactly were you getting at when you said: EXACTLY like most of you crew: angry, knee-jerk reactionary, deep-seated hatred of the other sex. ?
/r/MensRights08/03/10 11:05 PM
3

The anger and stuff is a necessary evil, because it raises awareness. Feminism needed it too, back in the day. I'd encourage you to be a little more forceful. Boys are 86% of adolescent suicides, that's a rock-hard number from the CDC, and nobody knows or cares. Kids are dying. Something's got to change.
/r/MensRights08/03/10 03:15 PM
3

Calling MRAs angry and emotional doesn't mean that feminism is well-reasoned. Both are advocacy movements. Neither can ultimately have equality as its primary concern. The only difference is that there has been a women's rights movement, and there hasn't been a men's rights movment.
/r/MensRights08/03/10 03:13 PM
5

Bullshit. If Chairman and Spokesman and even Mailman are all gendered words that needed to be changed, then there's no way in hell in that feminism is a gender-neutral word. Things like this matter. That's why we stopped saying chairman. Kudos to feminism for pointing that out. But what's good for the gander is good for the goose. "Gender Theory," or "Egalitarianism", not feminism. EDIT: When I say, "Bullshit," that's directed at the link. I don't mean to airily dismiss your position, and I unde…
/r/MensRights08/03/10 03:11 PM
4

Er... that's not an extreme statement. Feminism has a long track record of employing convenient narratives and bad sociology alone, while ignoring linguistics, biology, economics, or any other discipline that might present a more complicated view of matters. I mean, I'd be happy to come along with you if you could, for example, show me five feminist issues on the NOW website that are well-reasoned. Basically, as far as I can tell, the only really good argument they've got running today is that V…
/r/MensRights08/03/10 03:02 PM
1

Feminism at first was very well-reasoned. Er... If you mean like Susan B. Anthony and so on...sure. 2nd wavers... not so much. an outlet for discussing those things where they felt Outlets for feelings aren't necessarily a solid foundation for "reason". Just as the Men's Rights movement is doing now. Hell no. The MR movement is maybe more reasoned, because it doesn't just do bad sociology and conveniently constructed narratives--it does a better job of including biology and economics and other d…
/r/MensRights08/03/10 02:57 PM
0

I didn't say incapable. I said averse. Stop straw-manning. Read the link again. It says Almost 24% of all relationships had some violence Not that it studied 24% of violent relationships. No principle of charity, inability to read, and persistent logical fallacies... Dammit, I'm being trolled. Well played.
/r/MensRights01/03/10 04:50 PM
1

Haven't been on this login all week, but I just wanted to point out that my argument doesn't preclude ALL male on female violence--that's a straw man. Individuals are full of exceptions to rules, sure. The question is, does the rule exist? Is there a discernible trend? well, DV exists in about 24% of relationships, and of these, male-on-female violence accounts for only 15% of DV. Numbers are solid, from the the CDC. In other words... 15% of 24%... we're talking about 3.6% of relationships. That…
/r/MensRights01/03/10 05:24 AM
1

No... I'm saying it's apples and oranges. These are not theoretical logical constructs in a thought experiment; we're talking about very complex, very messy jumbles of biology, sociology, and individual choices. So you are claiming that the parts of the brain that handle violence are the same as those that handle complex social behavior, then?
/r/MensRights22/02/10 11:00 PM
0

Yep. The reptile brain. Fighting and fucking and so on. That sucker absolutely sees each woman as a uterus with legs. But there's also a human brain. That's the one that maintains relationships and raises families and so on. Which one gets used in a firefight? Unless you're suggesting that the parts of the brain that handle violence didn't evolve millions and millions of years before the ones that handle complex social behavior? Then there's the other bit where I said that mixed-gender groups ar…
/r/MensRights22/02/10 06:33 PM
0

Come with me on this one, Crypto, because I don't think you're actually committed to what you just said. First, though, some side points. selling men short There's nothing bad about wanting to protect women. This is not a bad thing, so claiming men have an instinct to do it can't be "selling them short". The police officer example is by no means a reasonable parallel. Police have many advantages over the people they come into violent conflict with, and despite what cop shows tell us, most of the…
/r/MensRights22/02/10 05:43 PM
1

By no means. You're straw-manning me. By my logic, evolution means men and women bring different things to the table, which means that for almost every task under the sun, men and women working together will be superior to groups of all men or all women. By my logic, fathers are inherently valuable, because kids get things from them that they can't get from their mothers. This squares with all the data about boys growing up with fathers being less likely to end up in jail, or girls growing up wi…
/r/MensRights22/02/10 05:11 PM
2

The question isn't about female capabilities--though I think there might be decent arguments to be made: ACL tear rates come to mind--rather, the question, the real question, is what happens to a unit of guys when you drop a woman into the middle. The arguments I've heard that sound the most compelling run along the lines of the male reptile brain being programmed to protect any healthy uterus that crosses its path, sacrificing oneself if necessary. This makes good Darwinist sense, and also squa…
/r/MensRights22/02/10 07:31 AM
2

Well, neither is the "solution" that got put into place. Separate-but-equal is as good as it gets for gender. Men and women are so demonstrably and radically different in so many ways, all comparisons to race fall miserably flat.
/r/MensRights22/02/10 07:19 AM
2

By geek chicks do you mean gamers and such? Yep. Though, probably also theater chicks et al. It would make sense to me that geekiness would affect girls in a different fashion than it does guys. That's a ridiculous assertion I didn't say it was a majority view, and I'm not 100% certain I fully hold the position myself. That said, simply calling it "ridiculous" is not in fact an argument. I reference some of the supporting evidence in my reply to atomicparrot above. If you'd like to engage it, I'…
/r/MensRights13/02/10 12:12 AM
0

easier to get on with than American women Fair enough, but that's not the only construction of the argument; I also said: perhaps problematic, but in ways that are less harmful to the men who marry them. Namely, they tend to not routinely divorce without good reason, taking 86% of the children and half the money. We need to be careful to be specific in what we mean by "get on with". The relevant criterion isn't fewer fights, less work, or less dedication, it's less exploitation of irretrievable …
/r/MensRights13/02/10 12:06 AM
2

Dove for Men commercial. It's more silly, but I thought it was much in the same vein as the Dodge commercial.
/r/MensRights08/02/10 06:10 AM
10

Interesting article. Obviously too pissed off, but he seems to be pointing toward a couple truths. One is the raging frustration of all men everywhere who have their women bring them problems--not for solutions, but for commiseration and communalization. This shit used to drive me crazy when my girlfriend did it, until I learned that this was a common miscommunication, and then started to get more skilled at recognizing when I wasn't being asked for help. Sometimes now I'll even label it directl…
/r/MensRights01/02/10 07:04 AM
1

Well, because people are individuals, these differences are only going to be demographic, right? Broad generalizations and trends, and accounting for individuals that lie outside those trends is very important cultural work. But for example, in a correctly constituted, harmonious society: Men will always be the majority of CEOs. Men will always be the majority of homeless. Men will be the majority of suicides. Teenage boys will wreck cars more than anybody else. Women will be the majority of sta…
/r/MensRights12/01/10 01:36 PM
5

I'm sorry, crypto, but you'll have to do better than that. If you look, the vast majority of those results are from Biologists. One result cites "feminist denial". Another talks about "Feminists and Darwin: Scientists try closing the gap" (emphasis mine.) There is a mainstream feminist view. Arguments to the contrary seem to run a very high risk of falling prey to "no true Scotsman" fallacies. My point was also that the biological differences constantly fuck around in the social constructions. T…
/r/MensRights11/01/10 06:52 PM
7

You are oversimplifying feminists' views on gender Please give me some source where a mainstream feminist assigns significant social implication to evolutionary biology. you are suggesting that they are intentionally deceptive Yes. If you can't get off your tenured ass and walk from the WS department over to the neuroscience department to get coffee at least once in your years at the university, then you are not really interested in any kind of search for objective truth. That shit is a choice, …
/r/MensRights11/01/10 03:58 PM
3

Indeed. One of feminism's great lies is that "gender is a social construct." Bullshit. Gender is a complicated mess of biology, culture, and personal choices. The challenge of a progressive gender theory is to bring all three into harmony.
/r/MensRights11/01/10 09:45 AM
2

Incredibly interesting. I wonder if anybody besides the Daily Fail is covering the story?
/r/MensRights30/12/09 04:10 PM
1

Couple different posters, actually, if you look carefully. I thought the notion that the 3rd wave stuff, the intersectionality, was the "valid work of a women's advocacy movement" was the best argument for feminism I'd heard in a while and warranted discussion. Though perhaps not.
/r/MensRights24/12/09 04:06 PM
5

But what you really want to know is how this apparent contradiction, this paradox, can work at all--how I can claim to be an MRA, even an temporary MRA, on the one hand, while on the other I espouse classical liberalism, the illegitimacy of group advocacy, and the primacy of the individual. It's getting late and I might be losing coherence, but I'll give it a shot. The answer lies in the paradox of human beings themselves. We exist as rational agents, yes, but we're also subject to biological an…
/r/MensRights24/12/09 10:21 AM
5

Let me ask you this. Are bourgeois white women the only women who live in Western democracies? Are they the only ones with citizenship or residency in such countries? No, of course not. But the abject failure of the 3rd-Wavers to right the ship should not be lightly dismissed. They couldn't because all forms of advocacy for groups are ultimately illegitimate. They are, at their very core, intellectually and philosophically moribund undertakings. The Men's Rights movement is not an exception, to …
/r/MensRights24/12/09 10:20 AM
1

Eh, sort of. First you had to stop needing so many babies as a civilization. Infant mortality had to drop. Then controlling when you had them came into being.
/r/MensRights24/12/09 06:10 AM
1

Social/cultural power is also very real. Just ask Confucius. Shit's been working in China for 5000 years. The power to say, "Come back with your shield or upon it," for example.
/r/MensRights24/12/09 06:07 AM
1

Hmm. Anybody think this might backfire? The sexists "Raise awareness" about the president's speech and then normal people think, "58%? That's not normal..." Wishful thinking?
/r/MensRights24/12/09 05:50 AM
5

i think the problem lies in a focus on solely the rights of one group over any other. Close. The problem actually lies in legitimizing any group rights paradigm at all. Rights, human dignity, all that stuff resides with the individual, not with groups. The individual is the locus of moral relevance. The problem is that groups are discriminated against on a group basis. So... men as a group here are being discriminated against, and if the Canadian numbers are anything like the American numbers, i…
/r/MensRights24/12/09 05:48 AM
6

without her knowledge This is an unfounded assumption. Anybody who marries a professional athlete worth a billion dollars has got to be a goddamn idiot if they don't know that these guys don't have a particular habit of turning down road beef.
/r/MensRights23/12/09 08:38 AM
3

Right before everybody else found out about his vagina buffet FTFY
/r/MensRights23/12/09 08:35 AM
12

Was looking for the link so I could show my girlfriend, and searching here didn't turn it up. Maybe it's just me, but we also seem to have picked up a few more open-minded female lurkers recently. I offer this as Exhibit A that the angry guys you might find in here aren't crazy, and that true attempts at "equality" must start with accounting for the current glaring asymmetry in gender politics. Also, if you dig up how this conversation ends, it's evidence that the silly conversations we have on …
/r/MensRights23/12/09 07:00 AM
9

The feminism I concern myself with is mostly the feminism directed towards countries that are far less advanced and still have horrible conditions for women. And I'm 100% with you on this one. Absolutely honor killings and circumcision are fucked up. Absolutely girls need equal access to education. One hundred percent. These are violations of the human rights of individuals rather than the group rights of women, but since the violations are undertaken on a group basis, I agree that specific grou…
/r/MensRights23/12/09 06:41 AM
1

and it's good for kids, which is why we did it. Right. Is there any sort of workaround for this? I'm not coming up with one. It does strike me as being profoundly good for kids to live in a family with a mom and a dad who are married to each other at the very least, with grandparents, uncles/aunts, godparents in the mix as well, ideally. What about states that have those crazy fundie "covenant marriages"? Anybody know anything about those?
/r/MensRights22/12/09 03:08 PM
2

but you get the idea. I'm sorry, but no, I don't. Could you please clarify something? There was a women's rights movement, but that only got a fraction of what needed to be done accomplished. What else, specifically, needs to be accomplished in Western democracies in 2010?
/r/MensRights22/12/09 02:48 PM
4

In the context of the OP's "Angry Wimmin"... But then you're right, why the fuck is that a valid context? I stand corrected.
/r/MensRights22/12/09 04:05 AM
10

Yes, it is a female advocacy movement And what exactly is the legitimate work of a female advocacy movement in 2010 in Western democracies? Edit: Even granting the ludicrous notion that after decades of stare decisis under its belt, Roe v. Wade is in danger, I can't recommend trying to convince a community that's incredibly concerned with paternity and child support fraud of the idea that abortion is a strictly female issue. Indeed, female abortion is a necessary prerequisite for any kind of mal…
/r/MensRights21/12/09 08:57 AM
7

Ah yes. "All forms of oppression." Feminists like to conveniently imply that the things they define as "sexism" are "oppression", just like racism. There's just one problem: sex is a helluva lot more biologically significant than race. Now is sexism a problem? Sure, absolutely. Nobody could argue with that. But are we going to pretend that feminism hasn't consistently defined sexism in terms that are... sexist? Usually by either denigrating things that are more part of guys being guys, or by cha…
/r/MensRights21/12/09 08:24 AM
1

I'm sorry, but I'd like to see a source on that. This Wikipedia page is citing mostly WHO statistics, which sounds very reliable and unbiased to me.
/r/MensRights21/12/09 06:45 AM
4

So, then, businesses run by women would then always have a competitive advantage, yes?
/r/MensRights17/12/09 07:45 PM
3

Hmm. Thought of another question. If sexism exists in a significant amount in the workplace, and if this sexism operates in such a way that it significantly reduces pay for women, what is your explanation of this sexism's role in the case of unmarried, childless women making more money than unmarried, childless men? Would these women be making even MORE money, would the wage gap be even greater in the absence of sexism?
/r/MensRights17/12/09 06:34 PM
3

Human nature says that most people are insecure and band together against an "out" group to look down on, as a way of affirming their own self-worth. And you're committed to the claim that people in business will do this even when it threatens their business?
/r/MensRights17/12/09 06:27 PM
1

Absolutely. I stand corrected. Violence is not inherently good or bad. The use of the violence, the direction of it, the purpose for it, those are the things that are good or bad.
/r/MensRights17/12/09 06:14 PM
4

Sexism is real, and human nature is such that it will affect pay. What are your justifications for these statements? A) How is the one-sided abuse of one gender by the other adaptive either biologically or culturally? B) Why is "human nature" such that it would prioritize sexism over efficiency in a competitive capitalist environment? I.E., if an employer can really get the same work out of women for less money, why hasn't somebody tried hiring all women to cut their labor costs, and then run th…
/r/MensRights17/12/09 06:09 PM
3

One note: The fact that unmarried women without children make 117% of the money that unmarried men without children make is not based on a study, it's based on a census. There's no quibbling with the sample or the methods. It's raw fact. AnnArchist's analysis of the "golden handcuffs" is spot on. Men are not allowed to be unemployed in this society. But that's not the point. These "golden handcuffs" are relevant to hiring decisions. Since women recently became the majority of the total workforce…
/r/MensRights17/12/09 06:03 PM
2

Indeed. Was late. Much grass. Edited.
/r/MensRights17/12/09 05:30 PM
5

American here, but I want to point out that Appanouki has hit on something important philosophically. Efforts for "group rights" tend to be illegitimate, for a couple reasons. One, they're exclusive, rather than inclusive. So if I talk about civil rights, or human rights, then that's inclusive. If I talk about Black Rights or Catholic Rights or whatever, that's exclusive. The other problem is that we in the west affirm the importance of individuals, not groups. Here in the States, it's that "We …
/r/MensRights17/12/09 08:49 AM
2

Men commit suicide more often than women do in every country in the world except China (which tells you a lot about China). Ain't no way that's cultural. And while work should be done to bring male suicide rates down, especially among adolescents, where eighty-six percent of all suicides (American data from the CDC) are male, there's zero chance of the number ever hitting 50-50. Men will also continue to be the vast majority of the victims of violent crime. This stuff isn't the result of "sexism…
/r/MensRights17/12/09 08:10 AM
4

Screw studies. Pick up Why Men Earn More by Warren Farrell. He's the only man to be elected to the N.O.W. Board of Directors three times. He cites census data, not studies. And women who have never married and never had children make 117% of the money their male counterparts do. My girlfriend has said before that Warren Farrell changed her life.
/r/MensRights17/12/09 08:00 AM
3

You familiar with the British Airways policy? There's a few references in this subreddit.
/r/MensRights17/12/09 07:58 AM
3

Do "egalitarian" or "gender theorist" instead. If "chairman" or "congressman" or "spokesman" are not gender-neutral terms, then there's no way in hell "feminist" is.
/r/MensRights17/12/09 07:55 AM
0

We're not talking about a child. We're talking about an embryo. Only if the woman bullheadedly insists on turning the pregnancy into a child is there any child to have its rights violated; in this case by the woman alone, knowingly and consciously. (Evil, IMO.) From further down... while an unplanned pregnancy involves a different kind of choice - one that involves the taking of what at least some women would regard as an already human life. Obviously my above reasoning is for Pro-Choice people.…
/r/MensRights14/12/09 06:37 PM
0

this pretty much goes against human evolution until this point in time So do automobiles. We didn't evolve to either move or track objects moving at 70 mph. But time moves on. Abortion is a big deal, and it's not going to be reflected in the evolution.
/r/MensRights14/12/09 06:28 PM
1

Nobody wants to call bullshit on this? Seriously? Men and women are different. Testosterone is part of that. There's nothing WRONG with being comfortable with risk. There's nothing WRONG with wanting to play tackle football or watch action movies. These are, in fact, socially acceptable ways of channeling aggression. It's never the aggression itself that's bad, it's the manifestation of it. Let's not sink to the level of feminism here. It's not "sexist" that teenage boys wreck cars more than any…
/r/MensRights10/12/09 07:09 AM
1

I'm an educator. Which author? Middle and High schools should be single-sex. More male teachers are definitely needed, but the job description needs to be refined. The requirements for entry should be lowered, and the requirements for staying should be raised. The teachers' unions' complete rejection of performance-based pay mean that teaching is a profession with little opportunity for risk and the reward that goes with it.
/r/MensRights07/12/09 06:10 AM
1

It's not just at one school. Here is Harvard Econ Phenom Roland G. Fryer's paper (PDF) on the phenomenon.
/r/MensRights07/12/09 05:44 AM
1

As with all stuff like this, we have to be careful in placing it in a social context, but it certainly further refutes the feminist canard that gender is a social construct. It also certainly further explains gender gaps in certain areas--wage gap, for one, but also high-risk employment...i.e., men will always have more high risk jobs and higher workplace fatalities, even if the social constructs that propel men to take them are ameliorated. EDIT: Anybody wanna take a stab at military implicatio…
/r/MensRights01/12/09 08:20 PM
9

OK, so, I actually pulled this one off. Here's what worked for me. Warren Farrell. The Myth of Male Power. Men die all the goddamn time and nobody cares. Honestly, I wish there were more emphasis on this part of the MR movement on this board. Males are eighty-six percent of all adolescent suicides. They're also like 96% of all workplace fatalities. Farrell covers this. Then you can point to how movies almost never show the death of a female character, and if they do, like in a horror flick, it's…
/r/MensRights13/11/09 06:21 PM
1

Eh, there's certainly some of that, but there also seems to be some discussion of cultural trends that are unbalanced. Feminism has led to 40 years of feminine concern and attention to feminine sensibilities, to the exclusion of masculine concerns and sensibilities. Female advocacy can be all fine and good. Hell, it can be natural. It's like something else that's natural: rain. Back in the day, there was a downright dry spell--technological advances meant that the old school full time babies/ful…
/r/MensRights10/11/09 02:18 PM
1

Bottom line is the post was a rant, but even so it offers some interesting insight into how people feel. Absolutely.
/r/MensRights10/11/09 02:11 PM
9

Eh, sorta. I gotta register some fine-tuning critiques, though. First, I work in education and more importantly, I study it a lot, so lemme speak to that. It seems the system is incredibly feminized, though I agree that the conclusion that women "run the place" is perhaps not rigorously reasoned. The gender gap in college and grad school definitely points to this generalized feminization, however. Now, feminism definitely DID contribute to the decline of the American US education system, though …
/r/MensRights10/11/09 12:11 AM
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